How Clavicular Makes (And Spends) $500,000+ Per Month By LooksMaxxing

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  The wheel had roads. Electricity had the grid. Innovation needs infrastructure. Plaid makes AI work in finance. Visit plaid.com/ai to learn more.

• 0:15Jack Selby?

  For the average person starting their journey of ascension, where does every dollar go?

• 0:19Speaker 02

  The average person's pretty

• 0:23Speaker 03

  Clavicular had an apparent overdose here in South Florida. And those disturbing moments unfolding live on camera before the stream suddenly cuts off.

• 0:32Jack Selby?

  What are you taking right now?

• 0:33Speaker 02

  10 milligrams of reticuteide, testosterone, acetate, melanotant, two, ibal, minoxidil, castoride.

• 0:39Jack Selby?

  With the concurrent viewers with Kik, what is Kik paid?

• 0:42Speaker 02

  Around like 1,000 an hour. You have Snapchat, which is a new one that's really big. A few grand a day.

• 0:48Jack Selby?

  What does your gambling deal look like?

• 0:49Speaker 02

  I gamble 15K every day.

• 0:53Jack Selby?

  How much do you spend every month? You have this penthouse apartment. You have another one, apparently that's way nicer, you said.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  400?

• 1:00Jack Selby?

  $400,000 a month?

• 1:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03Jack Selby?

  Oh, my gosh. Clavicular, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:09Jack Selby?

  You get 1 billion views per month. How much do you pay for that?

• 1:15Speaker 02

  Zero.

• 1:16Jack Selby?

  You pay $0 for a billion views?

• 1:18Speaker 02

  I have no clipping spend.

• 1:19Jack Selby?

  How do you spend zero and get a billion views?

• 1:21Speaker 02

  Kik pays for the clipping because it's got a huge kik.com/clavicular logo. So they're driving traffic to their site, right? When you do a clipping campaign, you're sort of picking like where you want these views to go, whether it be, you know, your like product or maybe getting people to follow your account, whatever the case may be. And Kik is driving traffic to their website because on their website, there's it's steak. A lot of people gamble on steak. So that's kind of where it happens.

• 1:52Jack Selby?

  Do they run this for anyone else?

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Everyone on Kik.

• 1:55Jack Selby?

  Everyone on Kik?

• 1:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57Jack Selby?

  And so if you create a Kik account, you get views, they just assume that you're okay with running clipping?

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, you you get a clipping budget and it's

• 2:07Jack Selby?

  What's your clipping budget?

• 2:09Speaker 02

  Unlimited. It's just they'll fluctuate the CPM based on like the spend. So like one month it was close to 700,000.

• 2:20Jack Selby?

  Whoa.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23Jack Selby?

  Holy crap. 700 grand?

• 2:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did 2.2 billion views in like a month or two ago.

• 2:30Jack Selby?

  That is insane.

• 2:31Graham Stephan?

  Do you think people care because it's looks maxing? Or do you think they care because they want to see what you're doing?

• 2:36Speaker 02

  Both. It's like a new phenomenon and like I'm sort of created an entire new part of the internet. So it's just like it's different content. People want to see it.

• 2:48Jack Selby?

  Is looks maxing more popular today or about a year ago?

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Today, for sure. I would say that looks maxing, you know, I'm obviously like the face of it. So maybe like the popularity that you saw for looks maxing. And you saw all these videos about looks maxing. Maybe you're seeing videos about me instead. It could be the case of that, but it's as big as ever. Everyone knows what looks maxing is. Every kid is using these terms, whether it be, you know, the NFL or Netflix. People are seeing it at the Oscar Awards. So it's the lingo that's also huge.

• 3:27Jack Selby?

  Imagine three guys. One of them is 5'4" with $50 million and he has average everything aside from money. One of them is 5'10", average on everything, but very funny. One of them is 6'3", broke, obese and balding. Who would you rather be?

• 3:46Speaker 02

  I would say the middle option in the immediate context, but the person who's 5'4" arguably has the best chance to ascend, right? With that kind of, you know, with that kind of savings, you could do a lot of different things, get a lot of different surgeries and max out, you know, with with limb lengthening because that is like very low percentile height. So you're going to be at a huge disadvantage in dating, right? A lot of like women will filter out even anything below six feet on dating apps. You're not even going to appear as they're swiping. And that's where the majority of people are meeting their partners nowadays. There's a lot of new research on this. People don't meet in person as your parents would. So totally different dating market.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  You know, but with that amount of money, you're going to be able to really like do different things like flex your status and and get girls, but it won't be authentic love. That's the problem, right?

• 4:43Graham Stephan?

  Fake love.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Right. I mean, you might be able to have, you know, a 90 foot boat or whatever that plenty of women want to come on just for the experience, but are they really going to love you? That's the question. Whereas, you know, the example of of the guy who's 5'10", with a good personality, it's a lot more likely.

• 5:01Graham Stephan?

  So you think someone who's under a certain height is incapable of being loved? Or how does that work? Or is it only the money and the status?

• 5:10Speaker 02

  I think it's less likely, certainly.

• 5:12Graham Stephan?

  But it's possible.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  It's, yeah, anything's possible, right? But we're, are we talking about, you always have to clarify like getting women and having women around? Because that's not necessarily the most difficult thing in the world. But keeping them and actually having them be physically attracted to you, very different ballgame.

• 5:30Graham Stephan?

  So what's your advice to the other two?

• 5:32Speaker 02

  The person who's 6'3" and fat and balding, that that's going to be something that's pretty easy to ascend in, right? Getting lean with today's technology, the GLP-1s. It's never been easier. So there's really no excuse. And 2026, in my opinion, to be overweight, like that just seems ridiculous. And as for the hair, you have a lot of different stuff. You have hair transplants, you have hair systems. So, you know, you do that in conjunction with a good hair loss protocol. Then, you know, you're going to be able to ascend. The only issue is, you know, being broke. It's a very competitive dating market. So once you ascend and you do these things and you're 6'3", you're you have hair, you're in good shape.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  You're someone who's also going to have those same stat lines, but they're also going to have millions of dollars, right? Because of just the nature of hypergamy and how Instagram's globalized anything. You're not just competing with that 20 mile radius of the guys in your town. You're competing with sometimes famous influencers, athletes, people all around the world.

• 6:36Graham Stephan?

  So if you were building the perfect male from scratch, where would you start?

• 6:42Speaker 02

  The the common saying is it's all about the face, right? That's going to be the thing in which, you know, the margin for error is extremely small, right? If your mid-face ratio is even a centimeter long, that's going to affect you a lot more than, you know, even 10 centimeters of height will. For example, if your mid-face is is one to one, it would be perfect. You know, that's going to be the distance between your pupils relative to the distance between your pupil and your lip. So if you extend that by a centimeter or decrease it by a centimeter, that's going to have a huge effect on your facial ratios and your overall harmony percentage

• 7:23Speaker 02

  versus, you know, if you change a margin of one centimeter even to 10 centimeters and height, it's not going to do as much.

• 7:31Graham Stephan?

  So you would start there, though. And then what's next after that?

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Just physical, I would say, would be your height, right? Women are going to feel, you know, that sense of being protected. And they're going to feel a lot safer. Their anxiety levels will drop quite significantly. And there's a lot of research, even, you know, if you extend it to your career, right? About your average income going up for every inch, you know, above six feet you are. It's like an additional $5,000 on average per year. So that's probably where I would go next. And then, you know, after that would be having a proportional frame because a lot of taller guys, we call them lengthlets on the forum because they'll have that super narrow bidaloid width. And it's just not proportional to your height. So it kind of looks goofy.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  So the frame and how wide your biocromial width is, shoulder joint to shoulder joint is very important.

• 8:27Jack Selby?

  What if you were to build the optimal female from scratch?

• 8:30Speaker 02

  I would say the same, pretty much. So the the face is always going to be the most important to me. It's sort of like been a new trend that's been influenced, I think, by pornography, more or less, with just like this emphasis on the body, more so than a girl having like a super model looking hot face. It's like a lot of guys are just like gooning and shit all day. So they're just looking with the girl with the biggest ass and the biggest tits. But, you know, that's obviously not going to be the best choice in terms of your genetics and what you're passing along to your kids. There's also a different thing that I look for in women, which is an important ratio called the waist-to-hip ratio.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  And that's a huge indicator of fertility.

• 9:16Jack Selby?

  Okay, that's interesting. So you look for fertility in women, and this is not supposed to be a contending thing. It just sparked an idea in my head. But I also know that you've been, you know, taking PEDs for several years.

• 9:27Speaker 02

  Correct, yeah.

• 9:28Jack Selby?

  And I think I've heard somewhere that you claim to be incapable of being fertile, at least in the current stage. How does, how does, where does your mind go when you juxtapose those two things?

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I'm infertile as of now, but if with the right fertility protocol, HCG and HMG, yeah, I'll be able to regain my fertility quite quickly. And, you know, I've been thinking about doing the protocol and just freezing sperm while I'm still young because like the more years go on, your chances sort of diminish. But it's extremely, extremely rare. And the chances are so low that you'll go completely infertile from taking testosterone that it's really not even that important.

• 10:11Jack Selby?

  If you had $10,000 for the average person to spend starting their journey of ascension, where does every dollar go?

• 10:19Speaker 02

  I would say it goes towards GLP-1 peptides, a gym membership, different things like makeup is a really good one. I would say different tanning supplements, melanotant 2. You know, you have your carotenoids, stuff like that. That's a pretty good place to start.

• 10:40Jack Selby?

  How are we so sure that this is not harm, potentially harmful?

• 10:44Speaker 02

  Well, there's a lot of research and it's it's a completely mainstream opinion that GLP-1s and something like reticuteide are very actually healthy for you, right? So your lipid profile is going to go down, right? So

• 11:00Jack Selby?

  But is it the is it the peptide itself? Or is it, once you lose weight, you're just naturally healthy?

• 11:06Speaker 02

  A little bit of both. You know, so there the glucagon receptor that's being agonized has lots of different health benefits. Redoxutide is also good for non fatty acid liver. You know, so there's tons of different stuff that comes along with this. And the phase two clinical trials have really shown that even at high doses as Redoxutide as high as 12 milligrams is proven to be safe.

• 11:32Jack Selby?

  What are you taking right now?

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Right now, I'm taking 10 milligrams of Redoxutide every five days. I'm taking 200 milligrams of testosterone, 7.5 milligrams of Accutane, 150 micrograms a day of Melanotan 2. I'm taking 5 milligrams of Ditalfil Cialis a day. I take 5 milligrams of Nebivol, which is a beta blocker per day. I take 2.5 milligrams of minoxidil. I take 0.5 milligrams of dutasteride. And I take 9 milligrams of MSAM seligaline.

• 12:11Jack Selby?

  How much does that cost?

• 12:14Speaker 02

  I would say the most expensive would be the MSAM, the seligaline, since no insurance really covers it. And I don't have health insurance regardless. I think it's about 2200 a month for just that. But the rest of it, I would say my prescriptions are probably like, maybe 300 a month.

• 12:33Jack Selby?

  So about 2,500 a month, give or take on the supplements?

• 12:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, about that.

• 12:38Jack Selby?

  And what would happen if tomorrow you decided to quit everything?

• 12:41Speaker 02

  Well, I would be hypogonadal. So my testosterone would take two or three weeks to start, you know, my endocrine cycle again. So my energy levels would be pretty bad. I would lose some muscle mass. And, you know, when you stop taking the minoxidil, all the different hair density will start to go away. Some of my eyelashes will fall out. So those would be the biggest changes. But everything else wouldn't really be too noticeable.

• 13:14Graham Stephan?

  And what about makeup? Are you wearing any makeup right now?

• 13:17Jack Selby?

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• 13:29Graham Stephan?

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• 13:41Graham Stephan?

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• 13:50Jack Selby?

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• 13:58Graham Stephan?

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• 14:06Jack Selby?

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• 14:12Graham Stephan?

  Thank you, Northwest Registered Agent, for sponsoring this episode. And what about makeup? Are you wearing any makeup right now?

• 14:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little bit.

• 14:20Graham Stephan?

  Where?

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Just, I use like a tinted SPF. So

• 14:25Jack Selby?

  Does that qualify as makeup?

• 14:26Graham Stephan?

  I don't think it does.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so.

• 14:29Graham Stephan?

  Tinted sunscreen?

• 14:31Speaker 02

  If it doesn't, I wouldn't call that it.

• 14:32Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I don't know if that.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, just for argument's sake, it's like, say you were dropped for like a little bit of concealer as well, like, you know, to cover up some blemishes. I don't really think that's something that should be criticized, because you're never going to get caught for it unless you're saying on a podcast, you know? So I've always been a huge advocate for men's makeup. Because like, why should you have to suffer from horrible skin and acne when an easy solution exists that's been used by women for decades?

• 15:04Jack Selby?

  I see this a little bit more traditionally. Like, if you're wearing makeup as a man, let's just say I'm putting myself in the shoes of a woman. I could be completely wrong. I don't have the brain of a woman. Don't make any comments about me having the brain of a woman. Let's just say that I start dating a woman. And all of a sudden, she comes over and she looks into my bathroom and she just sees everything. She sees concealer, she sees blush, she sees, I don't know, mascara, all these things.

• 15:29Graham Stephan?

  She would think that you're cheating.

• 15:30Jack Selby?

  She would think I'm cheating, first of all. But then after that, she'd be like, so you wear all this stuff? And I said, yes, I do. I think that that would be like the Plate Crash moment in How I Met Your Mother, where everything just falls apart. Because she would be like, wow, this person is A, a fraud, or B, very metrosexual, which I think being metro is a unattractive trait.

• 15:53Graham Stephan?

  Or that you're trying too hard.

• 15:55Jack Selby?

  That's metro.

• 15:57Graham Stephan?

  No, I thought metro is just into like female things.

• 16:00Jack Selby?

  No, metro is not trying too hard.

• 16:02Speaker 02

  Okay, I don't know. That's like a millennial term. I think it's just like a

• 16:06Jack Selby?

  I'm a Gen Z, actually, technically.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  I'm millennial. That's like a more of a fashion style, I'm pretty sure. But if there's something that can make you better looking and more attractive to women, why wouldn't you leverage that? You know, that doesn't really make any sense to me. And I've never had a girl really say anything about makeup. And I mean, what, you're telling me that you can't just like, put this stuff in a drawer or something? So like, these don't seem like really valid reasons to not engage in it. Like, I think that you're a lot better off maybe having a stick of concealer in your bathroom than being acne ridden, you know?

• 16:44Graham Stephan?

  Maybe it's different if you had lipstick.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:46Graham Stephan?

  Isn't that maybe a little?

• 16:47Speaker 02

  No one's talking about that. You know, we're talking about, you know, maybe just covering up a little bit of blemish. We're not talking about mascara. We're simply talking about

• 16:56Graham Stephan?

  What about eyeliner?

• 16:57Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I mean, I just imagine a guy crying for some reason, and it's like coming down his face. And he's at the club because a girl just rejected him. I'm like, there's, I can't imagine a lower place to be than that.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah. But I mean, these are all hypotheticals that aren't realistic, you know? So I am very pro looks max, makeup max.

• 17:18Graham Stephan?

  Are there any genetic disadvantages that are pretty much irreversible?

• 17:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, like having, like, you know, a really tiny skull or short face syndrome. These are all things that are going to be very difficult to fix. I mean, like, there's a lot of people who are genetic defects because maybe you're an Accutane baby, maybe, you know, the mother was consuming too much alcohol in the womb. So like, a lot of these things, unfortunately, are going to be quite brutal in your life. And, you know, the way people treat you, not consciously, more so subconsciously, is going to be worse. And that's a really hard thing to say. And it's a really unfortunate reality. Because, you

• 18:07Speaker 02

  know, you want to judge people and treat all people equally. But it's not really something that you could control if it's in your subconscious.

• 18:14Jack Selby?

  What genetic defect do you have that you think is irreversible? Something that you cannot improve?

• 18:19Speaker 02

  I've got something called pectis excavatum, which is just a little bit of a collapsed sternum right here, in between my pecs. So it could be fixed, but you have to have this procedure called the Nussbar procedure, where there's a metal bar that gets inserted into your chest, and then it pushes it up. But it takes about six months. And you can't train. It's extremely expensive. So that's just not something that I'm willing to undergo for just how small of an issue it is.

• 18:50Jack Selby?

  So what genetic disadvantages are just cope? Like, they're not actually genetic disadvantages. People just, they blame it. Oh, yeah, like, I'm big boned. You know, I don't necessarily agree with that. What would you say are just cope?

• 19:05Speaker 02

  Anything that's not super visible when you're wearing like, normal clothes, like, maybe your ab inserts, or, you know, a decent amount of your muscle inserts are not going to be the most like, life-changing thing. To have like, bodybuilder tier, perfect muscular insertions. But everything matters, right? So there's no reason to, like, I don't really think anything is necessarily too cope. It's just, there are things that matter more and things that matter less.

• 19:37Graham Stephan?

  It's interesting. I just saw this, actually. On Twitter, they had two twins. And they looked at male pattern baldness. And the twin that was in the sun more, smoked more, drank more, had a lot of thinning hair. The other twin, who didn't do any of that, led a healthy lifestyle, low stress, too, full head of hair.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, so smoking and drinking are very aging. Smoking is going to be the worst thing that you could do for your collagen. So that'll age you quite significantly. So I always heavily advocate against both of them. And it's like, people will see me on the stream sometimes, smoking a cigarette, or, you know, having a drink, because I do nightlife content. But I know exactly what's going on. And I think being conscious of the fact that alcohol, or ethanol, whatever you want to call it, is very toxic to your body, is a good thing, because it limits my consumption. Every time I'm about to have a drink, I'm like, oh, you know, I'm weighing in my head, how this is going to affect my

• 20:36Speaker 02

  looks, what this is actually doing in terms of neurotoxicity, what it's doing to my liver. So having that always in the back of my head helps.

• 20:45Jack Selby?

  Where is the worst place to have your natural fat storage? Because I could be wrong here, correct the science. But everybody's body comp is slightly different. And some people store fat more in their trunk, some people more in like, the torso area, some people up here. Like Elon Musk, he's a little bit more dense kind of up here than he is down here.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:04Jack Selby?

  Me, I got kind of a wagon, I got kind of a caboose, that's just, I naturally store the fat back there.

• 21:09Graham Stephan?

  And mine is just like

• 21:10Jack Selby?

  He's got an inner, perpetual inner tube.

• 21:12Graham Stephan?

  I do, yeah.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Obviously, the face is first and foremost. The next, I would say, would be your cemental region. So right underneath your jaw. So if you have like, that turkey neck look, that's not good.

• 21:25Jack Selby?

  How do you lose fat there? Because I've seen some people that appear to be decently lean, but they do have, like, there's a slant, you know what I mean?

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Well, it's also tissue, and it's also about like, your oral volume. So the forward growth of your jaw. So it's a lot more nuanced than just adipose tissue. But it certainly goes into it. So I would say that's bad. Another underrated brutal one is going to be your Mons pubis.

• 21:50Jack Selby?

  Oh.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  So the fat pad right above your penis, that's going to reduce your perceived length. Because it's almost like obfuscating where's like, the base of your shaft, like, you know, so your non-bone press length will be like, significantly lower.

• 22:07Graham Stephan?

  And where are the best places to store fat? Probably your glutes, your legs.

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• 22:46Speaker 02

  The, your arms and maybe like your back isn't the most, you know, significant. But yeah, having a lot of fat around like your waist, your midsection, um, these are all gonna be pretty bad for your physique.

• 23:02Graham Stephan?

  Yep. At what age does looks-maxing give you the highest ROI?

• 23:06Speaker 02

  As young as possible, right? And that's not saying like, oh, taking red ashutide and doing all this crazy shit. That just means consuming enough macronutrients, eating a lot of protein, right? Enough micronutrients, supplements. All this kind of stuff is gonna be great, right? Maybe being conscious of, you know, things that are gonna affect your growth, right? So that's doing things like drinking. I notice nowadays, it's not uncommon that people start drinking really like freshman year of high school. And that's such a terrible thing. Because that is going to really, really affect your MTOR signaling, which is a huge growth pathway. And it's very neurotoxic as well.

• 23:48Graham Stephan?

  What's the earliest that someone should looks-max?

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Forever. Looks-maxing isn't just about like these crazy peptides and all this. It's anything that makes you look better is looks-maxing.

• 24:01Graham Stephan?

  But like at what age? Like, what's the youngest?

• 24:03Jack Selby?

  Like, when I was, it's as soon as you become body-conscious. Like, when I was 11, I was self-conscious that I was fat. And so, or I was self-conscious that I was very pale. And so I was like, I gotta get in the sun a little bit more. But like, that is considered looks-maxing. I think what Graham is saying is like, what age do you make it like a very strong priority? Where you start, you know, actively, you know, making that a part of your routine?

• 24:27Speaker 02

  I think, once you start coming into high school, it's a good idea to start being conscious of your diet, to start some sort of training regimen, you know, maybe a skincare routine. And if it's earlier than that, then, then great, right? Starting, starting to wear SPF at a very early age. Like, the earlier you start to do all these things, the better, right? You know, so I would say is, it's just gonna depend on people's maturity levels.

• 24:58Graham Stephan?

  When does surgery become more valuable than lifestyle improvements?

• 25:02Speaker 02

  If you're someone with like huge facial phalos, right? If you've got like this huge nose that just is like so brutal and, uh, you know, everyone's making fun of you, you're not gonna really be able to compete in, in the dating game, then you could watch all the red pill pickup artist courses and learn the perfect game, the perfect cold approach. But that's going to be the thing that's holding you back. So I think it's just about fixing your phalos, not trying to create halos is, has always been, you know, the general advice from the looks-max community. Does that make sense?

• 25:42Jack Selby?

  So it's, it's two motivating factors. One, some people are motivated running towards something. Some people are motivated running away from something. And you would say you find the things that you don't like, and you actively change those.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Right. I mean, like, if you've got like an average-looking eye area, you shouldn't be trying to go for like orbital implants to look like Sean O'Pry. I'm talking about, you know, if you've got a super, super recessed jaw, maybe you were like a really bad mouth breather growing up, and your airway is completely cooked to the point where you have sleep apnea, and it's just not functional whatsoever. Is a jaw surgery like something to consider? Well, I'll let your, I'll let your doctor and your maxillofacial surgeon answer that question for you. But, um, yeah, so that's kind of the goal. It's just about fixing the phalos.

• 26:31Jack Selby?

  If you're 18, or 25, or 35, or 45, or even 55, does your advice change?

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Certainly, yes. You're not really going to be able to have like this insane control over your development. Do something like keep your growth plates open for a longer period of time by taking like an aromatase inhibitor. That won't work past a certain age.

• 26:55Jack Selby?

  Past what age?

• 26:56Speaker 02

  It's gonna depend, but somewhere around like 17, 18. It's usually when males stop growing. But I mean, for some people, it could be as late as 20, 21, or even earlier than that, you know? So just, it really depends.

• 27:08Graham Stephan?

  So if you're 45 and you're physically just cooked, wouldn't making more money simply have the best result?

• 27:15Speaker 02

  No, because, think about it, right? Going from a 6 out of 10 to an 8 out of 10 is, you know, more of a marginal thing than, but it's going to have a huge, huge result. You know, much more achievable than going from making a hundred thousand dollars to a million dollars. That's not going to be even close to achievable for the average person. And it really isn't gonna do much. Women are, uh, super able to perceive income. And like, there's a lot of memes about like, what is your average salary requirement when dating? And like, the answers will just be like so absurd.

• 27:55Graham Stephan?

  Do you think they really believe that? Or do you think those clips are just selectively picking the people who say ridiculous numbers?

• 28:01Speaker 02

  I think it's, uh, it's a true belief, you know? Because I've, you know, I typically ask girls like, you know, what's a good amount of money for a guy to make a month? You know, for you to qualify them as someone you'd wanna date? And I was doing a stream with a girl last night who said 500K a month.

• 28:20Jack Selby?

  But that's, you're also in Miami.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  She's not from here. She's a regular.

• 28:25Jack Selby?

  Where is she from? How old is she?

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Like Maryland, she's 18.

• 28:28Jack Selby?

  She's with you, though. That's, I think that that is.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  It's like, it's a random girl from like Maryland or something.

• 28:33Jack Selby?

  I would like to get a different poll, like a poll on the street.

• 28:37Graham Stephan?

  I'd be so curious.

• 28:39Jack Selby?

  Dude, I could do it.

• 28:40Graham Stephan?

  If it would vary from like Las Vegas to Miami to Los Angeles to like, I bet most would be, my bet is most would say 150 grand a year.

• 28:51Jack Selby?

  We'll see if I can motivate myself before this post to go, I'll ask five girls just some place in Vegas, and I'll stitch it in right here.

• 28:58Graham Stephan?

  That would be incredible.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  I'd be curious. It could be a Miami thing, quite honestly, or an LA thing, but, um.

• 29:05Jack Selby?

  Vegas also probably is not the best place.

• 29:06Graham Stephan?

  The other thing, was she on stream?

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:10Graham Stephan?

  So I feel like that also gets, like, the higher she says, the more people pay attention to her, the more people talk about her. And so it benefits her to say like, oh yeah, a million dollars a month, minimum to date me. And then you get bantered back and forth. It keeps her on stream longer. Versus if she's saying 8,000 a month, you'd be like, alright. And then move on to the next one.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I think, once again, like, a lot of girls, like, don't really know like, uh, how much things cost? Like, how much it costs to live in, in these big cities? So there's just not a huge grasp on like what's going on, you know? Because there's a lot of people that bullshit also. It's like you can lease, uh, or finance like a Corvette, which is a hundred thousand dollar car, and be on car payments for eight years. And a girl will think you're rich, right? But sometimes it's not the case.

• 30:04Jack Selby?

  Would you not believe a girl, if you started dating her, and she said, yeah, I wouldn't care if you weren't making this kind of money? Like, if you were making 5K a month, I'd be fine with it. Like, I enjoy hanging out with you.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  I don't think I would. Because it's like, you know, maybe you're not immediately spending like, all this money going on like these super expensive dates. And then the girl's like, oh, you know, you see, I'm not with you for the money. But like, you know, then we're living in, you know, like crazy apartments, going on like private jets. And, you know, that, that's just the environment she gets used to, you know? So it's not the immediate, like, what she's spending on her credit card. It's more so just like the environment.

• 30:48Graham Stephan?

  But what if she wasn't used to that? What if it was just like 5K a month is all she's experienced? She says she's fine with it. Would you believe that? Now, really quick, I just gotta say that anyone who knows me knows I love auctions. I'm always browsing classic cars, original movie art, trading cards, all of it. So when today's sponsor, Whatnot, reached out, it was an easy yes. It's that whole live auction experience right on your phone. And we're giving away $500 in Whatnot credit a little later, so stick around.

• 31:18Jack Selby?

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• 31:29Graham Stephan?

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• 31:54Jack Selby?

  But you don't have to catch a show to shop. Flash sales and buy it now lets you pick up something instantly.

• 31:59Graham Stephan?

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• 32:06Jack Selby?

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• 32:10Graham Stephan?

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• 32:19Jack Selby?

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• 32:34Graham Stephan?

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• 32:52Jack Selby?

  Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks literally everything from accounts to investments, savings, goals, and spending.

• 32:58Graham Stephan?

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• 33:22Jack Selby?

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• 33:30Graham Stephan?

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• 33:38Jack Selby?

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• 33:49Graham Stephan?

  What if she wasn't used to that? What if it was just like 5K a month is all she's experienced? She says she's fine with that. Would you believe that?

• 33:58Speaker 02

  It really just depends on how old the girl is, where she's from, because 5K a month, you're not going to really be able to live in Miami for that much.

• 34:08Jack Selby?

  How much do you need to live in Miami?

• 34:10Speaker 02

  I wouldn't want to live anywhere near Miami for less than $10,000 a month.

• 34:14Jack Selby?

  $10,000 a month?

• 34:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's a good answer because I think that rent is probably going to start around 2K to 3K, maybe in like Edgewater, like good luck in Brickell. Like, you're not living in Brickell, you're not living in downtown for, you know, less than 5K to 6K. You know, even for like some of these one or two bedroom apartments. And then you have your car payment, you have groceries, and you know, God forbid you want to put away a single dollar in your savings account, then it's just not, it's not worth living here, you know? And I see a lot of people who have this online income. You know, they start making a little bit of money and they move to Miami. It's like, why? You don't need to be here. There's no, no reason for that whatsoever.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  You might as well live somewhere with a super low cost of living and put some money away.

• 35:05Graham Stephan?

  At what point are people chasing improvements that no one will realistically notice?

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Well, it certainly gets there like within a few years of looks maxing. Because if you look at it like a pie chart, right? You're going to get about 70% of what's able to be accomplished from your body fat percentage from lean maxing. And maybe throw another 20 towards like your coloring, you know? That's going to be like how tan you are, your contrast, your dying your hair, whatever. And then maybe a little bit is going to be your physique and then your skin quality. And once you like achieve these things, it really becomes more about maintaining than like finding the next endeavor.

• 35:48Jack Selby?

  So you would say if you were to give broad advice to the average person watching this right now, which most people are probably not going to be of the looks maxing community. It's just guys between the ages of 18 and 35. The most broad advice that you would give would just say, get lean.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  10 to 12% body fat. Yep. And creating contrast is a key thing as well. That's what I'm talking about, your coloring.

• 36:08Jack Selby?

  So you think it would be beneficial for me to probably dye my eyebrows?

• 36:12Speaker 02

  No, I think your eyebrows are quite dark, but I think you would have a lot more contrast to your face. You know, with your blue eyes, if you're more tan, that's also going to create more contrast with your sclera, which is the whites of your eyes.

• 36:23Jack Selby?

  See, I would be worried. I actually started taking eye drops because I did notice that I look a little weird when my eyes are all red. I think it looks better to have like clear, white eyes.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  It's a health indicator.

• 36:33Jack Selby?

  Yeah. But the only thing is that I'm so worried about getting my face tan because I have one sunspot and I just don't want more to appear.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean-

• 36:41Jack Selby?

  You'd say melanotans probably.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  No, melanotan would probably exacerbate that. So there's different laser treatments or things of that nature to try to remove those. Looks like you have, you know, post-inflammatory marks. So-

• 36:58Jack Selby?

  Where?

• 36:58Speaker 02

  Like hyperpigmentation.

• 37:00Jack Selby?

  Oh yeah, this is melasma.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Okay. Oh, all right. That's, yeah, that's going to be a little bit more difficult to treat. So you notice when you get super tan, that exacerbates, like it looks more obvious?

• 37:10Jack Selby?

  And I take hydroquinone to like, remove it.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 37:13Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  How long has it been there?

• 37:15Jack Selby?

  It's gotten worse over the, I mean, not worse, it's kind of stayed the same, but maybe three or four years at this point.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, then that's certainly something to consider. I mean, you could always throw like an SPF that's super high and make sure it has like PA++ in that region. You know, because you know, it would almost blend in if the rest of your face was more tan. So that's something to consider. I really like trying to be as striking as possible. And you know, the contrast with the tan between your sclera and your teeth, it's really important.

• 37:46Graham Stephan?

  What causes that? Is that just being in the sun without sunscreen?

• 37:50Jack Selby?

  Yeah, and it's the thinning of your skin as well. Because you have it kind of on like the subdermal or whatever it is, like the, the skin underneath. And then as you get older, you typically lose facial fat. And then as it gets closer, it just tends to push out more and the sun will also exacerbate the coloring.

• 38:06Speaker 02

  It's not exactly losing facial fat. What starts to occur is you lose elastin, which keeps everything in place. And gravity takes course and it migrates down. So that's why you notice the fat starts to accumulate on these folds, the nasolabial folds. And you start to get jowls a little later into life. That's just gravity and elastin loss.

• 38:27Jack Selby?

  So you know what's funny? I was in, you'd probably appreciate this. I was in Korea, this is the first time I've mentioned this on the podcast, in March. And I knew that they were popular for skincare. And so I thought, I'm going to book myself a skincare appointment. You know, maybe they can laser this thing off. I had no idea what I was getting into. Showed up to the appointment and I was with my friend. My friend's like 10 years older than me, 15. And he was like going through everything. They were like, you need this, this, this, this. What do you want? And he said, everything. And then they turned to me and she said, what do you want? This, this, this, this? And I was like, I mean, if he's getting everything, I guess I'll get everything too. And then I go to the Apple Pay and it was in the foreign currency and so I didn't really know. Tap the Apple Pay, $3,500.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 39:08Jack Selby?

  And they ended up, I was in there for, they kept it open past closing for about eight hours. The entire procedure, everything. And they were lasering everything on my face. They did several different ones. One was actually to move the muscles up, like you said, to prevent jowls. And then they also did another one that was like burning off small wrinkles on your face.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  It was a laser treatment, I believe.

• 39:31Jack Selby?

  It was a laser treatment. I did that as well. I got collagen injected and Botox injected and then one other thing injected as well. I don't really remember.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  You did Botox? Okay.

• 39:39Jack Selby?

  Yeah, but I also, one of them felt like they were like, like pulling with strings.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  Oh, that's called PDO threads. Yeah.

• 39:45Jack Selby?

  I don't know if I got the strings though, it just felt like they were. It was like they were putting the needle in and then moving it around.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, that'd be PDO, definitely.

• 39:53Jack Selby?

  And like, I literally almost quit probably a dozen times within the session because I was so uncomfortable. And I also was so frustrated that I didn't know what I was signing, like honest to God, I had no idea what I was signing up for.

• 40:05Graham Stephan?

  Jack sent me a photo and he had the numbing cream on for like a full hour.

• 40:08Jack Selby?

  I had blood like on my face because they injected so many different things.

• 40:11Graham Stephan?

  I saw him the next day.

• 40:12Jack Selby?

  Micro needling, they did that.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a lot of, of things that are cope in like the whole med spa world. But microneedling is great, really good for your collagen, hair, hair growth. You know, there's certain types of lasers that are a little less effective. But usually the more invasive ones that have a longer recovery time, like they do work like ablative CO2 laser. Like, yeah, you're going to have to stay out of the sun and stay inside probably about three, four weeks. But the results are going to be like tremendous compared to like the fractal CO2 laser that you heal in a week. It's, the results aren't as pronounced, you know?

• 40:47Jack Selby?

  How much time do you typically spend researching all this stuff? Because you're understanding of pharmacology, how different things interact with, you know, foreign substances with your body. It's really impressive, especially just like being 20 years old, not to slight the age or anything. But I'm curious, how do you do all of this research? And how much time do you spend?

• 41:05Speaker 02

  Well, it's, you know, years of accumulation, right? So in high school, I wasn't really a social guy. I was kind of just on my computer all day, like reading about this stuff. And you know, even to this day, I'm probably spending like an hour just looking into new things, reading new literature that comes out.

• 41:26Jack Selby?

  When you say literature, are you actually looking at like studies and stuff or is it like Reddit and Twitter and?

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, mostly literature because Reddit is just like anecdotes. And I think that's important, certainly to research, you know, people's experience with different things because it's important. But it's more so about understanding the safety of things, you know, control groups. And you know, the actual mechanism, how the drug works. You need to understand these things really, really proficiently before you start looking into what other people on Reddit are doing.

• 42:01Jack Selby?

  So if someone wanted to try GLP-1s or peptides or any of the things that you've mentioned, like the hard maxing stuff, how much, how many hours of research before they do it should they realistically put in?

• 42:11Speaker 02

  I think you could get a, a pretty sufficient understanding of how GLP-1s work in a few hours. It's not the most complex thing in the world. And even further than that, you're going to be relying on medical experts, right? You should be going to your doctor about this kind of stuff. Reddit is not an FDA-approved treatment yet, but it will be, right? And so for now, you're going to get prescribed probably Monjaro tirzepatide. So you're doing your research, you're understanding how it works, you're understanding how to reconstitute the peptide. And then you're having a doctor with years and years of medical training to oversee it, you know?

• 42:54Speaker 02

  And I'm pretty confident in talking about these peptides and recommending them.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Because you know, it's very, very difficult to pick up on peptides, right? Even if you injected the entire vial of radishertide or something like that, you know, it's not like that's the lethal dose. You know, nothing really would happen.

• 43:14Graham Stephan?

  What looks maxing advice that's out there right now is actually harmful?

• 43:18Speaker 02

  I've seen a lot of different stuff about people installing dental appliances, like screwing in like an MSC themselves. I've seen people self performing like gyno removal surgery, like literally like cutting open their

• 43:38Graham Stephan?

  No.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  glandular tissue and removing it.

• 43:41Graham Stephan?

  What?

• 43:42Speaker 02

  So like

• 43:42Graham Stephan?

  You've seen this?

• 43:43Jack Selby?

  I've never seen videos, but I know what gyno is.

• 43:46Graham Stephan?

  Oh, my God.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  I've seen one where people cut their medial canthis with a knife. That's like really bad.

• 43:52Jack Selby?

  So it's mostly people performing these surgeries.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Off of self. Supposed to be done by professionals.

• 43:58Jack Selby?

  Or really what it is, is just making decisions without consulting professionals.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Correct. Yeah. So most of what I talk about, I always say this has to be done under the supervision of a doctor because people aren't going to understand, you know, how to use something like an HGH, you know, earlier into their life and they're just not going to give a to do the research. They're just going to randomly pin it. And if they don't understand about like their blood glucose levels, they're going to eat a bunch of carbs and then take HGH and then, you know, they're going to be pre diabetic pretty, pretty soon. Right? So whereas a doctor would come in and make sure to clarify that and make sure they understand fully how to use these things. And then, you know, maybe they could get some, some results or same thing with testosterone. If someone just starts randomly pinning test without realizing that it's going to convert to DHT

• 44:45Speaker 02

  and give them a severe hair loss, then, you know, they're going to be screwed, right? And they're actually going to looks men in a lot of cases.

• 44:53Graham Stephan?

  Do you think someone could become less attractive simply because they're trying too hard?

• 44:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, most definitely. Yeah.

• 44:59Graham Stephan?

  And where do you draw that line?

• 45:01Speaker 02

  A lot of it comes from like fitness advice, right? Like people will say caloric surplus, 500 milligrams of testosterone. That's going to make you fat and acne ridden and bald, right? If that's, if that's where it ends, right? But maybe just a TRT so that you're more energetic throughout the day. So your face masking lenses a little bit in your body like sort of re comps. That's a lot more of a looks max than the traditional bodybuilder. Blast the f*** get a roids, eat 12 meals a day type advice.

• 45:37Graham Stephan?

  What about the act of trying too hard? Like the fact that you care so much about it makes you less attractive. Only because you care.

• 45:46Jack Selby?

  Even if your decisions and mentality are not born out of insecurity, that's how a lot of people will perceive it. And I think they see insecurity as an unattractive thing.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, absolutely. But I think, you know, you have to just realize that you can make observations about the world. Even if you're, you're being fully objective and your reasoning was different research they did on, on dating and, you know, how the, the top 20% of profiles get all the attention. And if you, you know, looked at research about like the interview process and how less qualified applicants who are better looking are, are getting these jobs. And then you decided, hey, I'm the looks max. This makes sense. That's not insecurity. The average person's not going to be capable of being an entrepreneur and having some insane AI or tech startup that's successful.

• 46:38Graham Stephan?

  Then wouldn't you think that people that are able to do that are already?

• 46:42Speaker 02

  They're outliers.

• 46:44Speaker 00

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• 47:15Speaker 02

  They're, they're genetic outliers with typically above average IQ.

• 47:21Graham Stephan?

  Do you think people should aspire to do that?

• 47:23Speaker 02

  It's genetic, you know? That's why like all the advice about don't go to college, college is bull. It's like, yeah, maybe you were able to transcend the requirements of having a college degree because you're super creative, super innovative and extremely smart. But the average person is not, the average person's pretty fucking retarded.

• 47:47Jack Selby?

  What do you think your IQ is?

• 47:49Speaker 02

  I wouldn't, you know, get into that.

• 47:52Jack Selby?

  Have you taken tests and stuff?

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's unless it's set in, in person certified testing center. It doesn't matter because people will spam these tests, which improves their score. And they'll just take them until they're happy. You know, so it really is.

• 48:07Jack Selby?

  You wouldn't speculate?

• 48:08Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 48:10Graham Stephan?

  So I asked ChatGPT, I said, hey, based on our conversations, what's my IQ? Wouldn't give it. You have to prompt it multiple times. But the fifth time it says, okay, your IQ is, what was it?

• 48:22Jack Selby?

  128.

• 48:23Graham Stephan?

  I thought, I thought it was 130 something.

• 48:24Jack Selby?

  128.

• 48:25Graham Stephan?

  It was 128.

• 48:26Jack Selby?

  And then I told Graham, I'm like, I think that's inaccurate. I think that 128 is like the perfect IQ to tell someone that they are. I think it's like, it is not so high to the point where you're a genius. It's not low to the point of being discouraged of like,

• 48:40Graham Stephan?

  It placates you a little bit. Yeah.

• 48:42Jack Selby?

  It placates you and kind of keeps you on.

• 48:44Graham Stephan?

  Makes it believable.

• 48:45Jack Selby?

  When it takes over, you know, it humbles you.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  That's a few standard deviations above the average. So that, no, that's certainly

• 48:52Graham Stephan?

  So what's interesting?

• 48:53Speaker 02

  Outlier tier.

• 48:53Graham Stephan?

  I had Jack ask the same things and it wouldn't tell, it wouldn't tell. And then finally,

• 48:57Jack Selby?

  128. So we both got the exact same number, which let's be honest, guys, it's not.

• 49:03Graham Stephan?

  I think we tried this with someone else who also got a 128.

• 49:06Jack Selby?

  Yeah, it was Justin Atlin and he also got 128. So the three out of three, 128. Everyone ask ChatGPT and don't say anything that would inflate it. And then comment whatever it tells you your IQ is down below.

• 49:18Graham Stephan?

  And you're very curious. And you just had to say, estimate an IQ, do your best.

• 49:21Jack Selby?

  Be honest.

• 49:22Graham Stephan?

  Be honest. Just give me a number. Do it. You have to keep prompting it to give you a number.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  It's just so funny about like the whole IQ testing stuff is like, you never meet anyone who's IQ is, according to them, less than 110, it seems like. So that's why.

• 49:38Jack Selby?

  That's kind of true.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  Like, have you ever, you know, I've never met someone.

• 49:42Graham Stephan?

  But maybe those aren't the people that we're hanging out.

• 49:43Jack Selby?

  Those are, those are also not the people that are intellectually curious. And so like, if you are under a hundred, in, intelligence isn't something that you're really considering on a daily basis. Whereas if you are smarter, you like observe it and you notice it more that it makes you curious about it. But yeah, that's true. I've never heard anyone ever say like, yeah, I'm like 93.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, exactly. So I always just, I get asked that question a fair bit and I'll always just refuse it because I think it's just a silly, you know, game that people play with themselves.

• 50:15Jack Selby?

  But you would agree that IQ is very important.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Extremely. Yeah.

• 50:19Jack Selby?

  And do you know of any ways to IQ max?

• 50:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, like you could create more brain synapses with something like dihaxa or cerebrolysin. So just, you know, any form of neurogenesis. Yeah. And there's different nootropics that are going to, you know, improve just like how long you could, you know, how long your attention span is and your productivity. So there is things that you can do to like IQ max, but it's a little bit nuanced.

• 50:51Jack Selby?

  What's more attractive to a woman, more knowledge or more intelligence?

• 50:55Speaker 02

  More intelligence.

• 50:57Jack Selby?

  Is more attractive than knowledge?

• 50:58Graham Stephan?

  Really? I think knowledge is because knowledge to me just seems practical. Intelligence, maybe I'm just misinterpreting is, is more like what you know about the world. But knowledge is like, to me, it just seems like you could apply it. Like I have knowledge about this thing and this thing and this thing, and I could apply it today.

• 51:16Jack Selby?

  Knowledge is like understanding of things. So like,

• 51:19Speaker 02

  It'd be vice versa.

• 51:20Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I would say it was probably vice versa. Like knowledge is like, like I can recite every state and their capitals. And then intelligence is like how well you pattern recognize and like the decision making engine behind things. It's not necessarily like, you could be incredibly intelligent as a five year old. It's hard to be very knowledgeable as a five year old.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, right. And like, maybe you could tell like cool, cool stories about ancient Greece to a girl on a date. But at the end of the day, you're

• 51:48Jack Selby?

  They like that.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Well, whatever, just, you know, talk about current events. But, you know, eventually it gets to the point where if your decision making and your understanding of, you know, just the world is severely damaged, then, you know, all these cool stories and little facts that, you know, don't really mean anything.

• 52:12Graham Stephan?

  Are there any cosmetic surgeries out there that you believe are just overrated?

• 52:16Speaker 02

  PDO threads are pretty cope. I've experimented with them and they're not so great. I would say filler is probably the worst one. Filler is actually terrible. So, so filler is actually going to cosmetically descend people in a lot of cases because it's meant to replicate soft tissue. It's not meant to replicate bone. So if you're just injecting absurd amounts of filler into your jaw and your cheekbones to make them appear more prominent, doesn't, doesn't work. It's just going to migrate and not have the aesthetic result that you want after about two weeks.

• 52:51Jack Selby?

  Have you ever put filler in?

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Never, never will, never would.

• 52:55Graham Stephan?

  What about your nose job? That was something I saw and I'm seeing it now. I don't notice much of a difference.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  Yep, that's the point. It was intended to be a super, super non invasive thing. I didn't have any modification of the bone up here. It was just an ailerplasty. So really just about reducing the width of my nostrils by a couple of millimeters.

• 53:19Jack Selby?

  So when I was seeing clips of you after the nose job, I think that they were being edited because you looked like sad and it looked like botched. And I was like, oh, man, like this, you know,

• 53:29Speaker 02

  That's what happened.

• 53:29Jack Selby?

  But then I was surprised because I remember when we met, how meticulous and calculated you seem to be about things. I'm like, there's no way that he like would go in and botch. Like if anyone's going to botch surgery, I feel like it wouldn't be. You'd have too much riding on it and you, you'd plan too much. And it looked botched, but yeah, in person, I was very surprised how, actually it looks very similar to how you were.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I wasn't trying to have a completely, you know, different face. It was meant to just fix a small fail of mine, which was my, you know, mouth to nose ratio. My nose was a little bit too wide with, you know, relative to how wide my mouth was and. I improved it, right? So of course, the day, you know, the week after you get a rhinoplasty, you're going to be swollen and it's not going to look as complete. And it takes about a year, by the way, for the swelling to fully go down and for the final result. So right now, it's been about five weeks. So it only look better and better.

• 54:28Jack Selby?

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• 55:09Jack Selby?

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• 55:53Jack Selby?

  Pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton Prepaid Card, Sutton Debit Flex Card and Bancorp Debit Flex Card. Cash App Green features savings, direct deposit, roundups, overdraft coverage and discounts provided by Cash App. A Block Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. Do you have any more surgeries coming up?

• 56:12Speaker 02

  Uh, no, not, I mean, not really.

• 56:15Jack Selby?

  Why is that?

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Well, I spammed, like I did like a lot of stuff at once. That's probably why I also looked like really weird is I got wisdom teeth removal right after that. So my face was all like puffy and bloated and my nose had a cast and I had surgery on my ears. So they were all black and blue. So people were like, wow, this guy looks all up. But I just needed to recover.

• 56:39Jack Selby?

  Are you going to get braces?

• 56:41Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I have Invisalign.

• 56:42Jack Selby?

  Currently?

• 56:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, in my pocket. I just take it out for interviews.

• 56:46Jack Selby?

  What would you say men look for in women?

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Uh, I would say that men look for women who are modest. And who sort of are a good reflection on them. Right? If your girl is just like, you know, going and being obnoxious, poor mannered. When you're out to dinner, for example, that's like also a reflection on you. Even if you're the most respectful person in the world. So it's, it's an, your girlfriend is an extension of you and vice versa.

• 57:22Jack Selby?

  If Henry Cavill is like the number one most attractive man or?

• 57:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, people talk about Matt Boomer versus Henry Cavill, but.

• 57:30Jack Selby?

  One of the two. I mean, most people would isolate it to both of them. I'm curious, who is the most traditionally attractive woman?

• 57:38Speaker 02

  It's funny because like female models get paid so much more than male models do. And yet, you know, a lot more of the discussion just amongst the looks maxing community and all these forums would be more male oriented. Not necessarily because it's like anything to do with, you know, it being gay or whatever. Just people were talking about men's aesthetics and it's a men's aesthetics community at the end of the day. Women could looks max just as men can, but looks maxing was kind of created as like a more male centered space.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  But I would say that there's a couple of the earlier 2000s Victoria's Secret models could be Tom Brady's ex-wife. Could be one of the highest scoring in terms of facial harmony. But, you know, maybe some people have a preference for like a different phenotype than hers. But I would say she's probably up there.

• 58:38Jack Selby?

  So that's interesting. You just mentioned some people have a preference for a different phenotype. But the whole idea of looks maxing is it's not about preference for phenotype. It's just objective, science based.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  Correct. Yeah, but there's.

• 58:50Jack Selby?

  Attraction.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, so maybe you weigh coloring out a little bit heavier. I think that's where being subjective kind of comes into it. You know, so like preferring like Adriana Lima, for example, has worse facial ratios, but she's more striking. Right? And she's got like these super piercing blue eyes, really tanned skin and brown hair. Versus Gisele has like, you know, more pale skin and blonde hair. So it's just not as much of a like immediate contrast, like striking look. So, um, but both are very close in terms of harmony percentages.

• 59:27Jack Selby?

  I would be interested to see, you know, how people get the outline of like a perfect face. And then they match up a man's and move it around and see who's close to it. What a woman's face would look like and how geometrically speaking, an attractive woman should be from an attractive man. Because, you know, you talk about the one to one ratio or you talk about the strikingness. You talk about, you know, having like a sharp jawline. If you applied the same, but if you applied the same things from a man to a woman, like.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  It's not even close.

• 59:56Jack Selby?

  You would have like a relatively masculine looking woman.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, so women are, according to the golden ratio, is supposed to have a bit shorter of a face. So their mid-face would be closer to like, you know, a one point one rather than males being one. And then, you know, they would also have a bit softer of a jaw, softer of a chin and not as much height to it. So these are some of the differences.

• 1:00:21Jack Selby?

  Does social media distort what men find attractive?

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, just from pornography, I would say.

• 1:00:28Jack Selby?

  You don't think by any other way?

• 1:00:30Speaker 02

  I mean, maybe editing.

• 1:00:32Jack Selby?

  So one thing that I noticed, and I don't want to get in any trouble by mentioning this. I think that Elisa Liu is actually very, I think she's very pretty. However, I would argue she probably does not fit your scientific definition of what like objective beauty is to a T. Like, you know, let's just say the average consensus is going to say she's like a 10 out of 10. But then you probably would argue, well, based on science, she would be, you know, a seven or a six and a half or something like that. But there's no doubt that the amount of attention that she got after her performance at the Olympics. I have never seen the amount of like edits. I didn't, I didn't even watch her performance, but my for you page, like every fifth reel, I feel like I was seeing her dancing

• 1:01:16Jack Selby?

  or her at some Academy Award or whatever it was. And I, and I would check the comments because, you know, I have to pay attention to these things. Okay.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  Of course, you have to click it.

• 1:01:24Jack Selby?

  And the amount of attention that she was getting, the amount of edits that I would see about guys, you know, like, like fangirling over her or whatever, like admiring her, saying she's like the most perfect, beautiful woman or whatever. I have never seen anything like it, but yet she doesn't quite fit. And so I'm curious how social media can distort something like that. Or if there are other things outside of beauty that make a man attracted to a woman they don't even know.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  I think that's just always going to be a new phenomenon. Like that you have a, a girl like, you know, who, who just comes up. And like you said, maybe not the most perfect in terms of her facial harmony. But, you know, maybe she just has like a girl next door kind of vibe to her. You know, it's not maybe typical that athletes are, you know, model looking and extremely attractive. So when you see one that is, it's like, it's kind of a shock, I would estimate. But regardless, people rating her 10 out of 10, uh, they're not saying, oh, wow, she's completely perfect according to science. It's more so, in my opinion, them saying, um, my life would be perfect if I had this girl.

• 1:02:32Jack Selby?

  How much is it though, that men just want what other men want?

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  I wouldn't say it's that important. I would say that's more of a female characteristic.

• 1:02:40Jack Selby?

  Really? I do think there is a bit of a herd mentality.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  So that's called pre-selection, right?

• 1:02:45Jack Selby?

  Correct.

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  That's more applicable to women.

• 1:02:47Jack Selby?

  It seems like men would be just as susceptible that if all these guys are like, yo, we like her and everyone's competing. I think that makes that person more attractive, just like it would be like a car or a house or a watch or some other thing that everyone collectively wants. It just makes it more desirable.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  Well, if everyone is, um, you know, I think a girl's hot and she's dated a lot of like top celebrities. I think in a lot of cases that would probably be, um, something that'd be not so positive. Whereas like the pre-selection of, um, women being intrigued. If they see a hot girl walking with a guy, like, you know, what does this guy have going on for him? So that's a lot more of a feminine thing, certainly.

• 1:03:34Jack Selby?

  I do want to mention, you said that when people say that she is a 10 out of 10, then they, they really mean that they think their life would be perfect if they were with her.

• 1:03:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:43Jack Selby?

  But wouldn't that be more important than just, just looks? And so then you have to break, would you agree with that or no?

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  It's more so just like, because like two thirds of, of males 18 to 21 have an X in six months. So that's just like a loneliness thing.

• 1:04:02Jack Selby?

  But if you were to say what's more important, like the, a person's scientific matching of 10 out of 10 beauty or what the general public would think that would improve their life to the point of being perfect? If they were to be with someone, which one would you say is more important?

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  The objective looks because a lot of people are just rating these girls super highly out of desperation. Like, you know what I mean? If you could actually sit down and analyze the face and not just like, oh, my God, like, my life would be perfect. I'd be so happy to be with this girl. The answer starts to change a lot.

• 1:04:39Jack Selby?

  But that could also be different if you know the person, right? And, and if you get to know them and then you see them, oh, wow, my life would be perfect if I am with this person. I think that that is all, that is-

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  It's just a desperation thing because most guys can't get girlfriends, you know?

• 1:04:53Jack Selby?

  I mean, I agree that a lot of guys are having trouble getting girlfriends. I'm just trying to understand this because I do think that now from recalling back to like the people that I've liked in my life, like I knew that they weren't perfectly physically looking or like even the most attractive person at the school. I just figured, wow, I really like their personality. I think that that was what a lot of people-

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  No, yeah, yeah. And that's also a thing that certainly plays into it. Could be like the parasocial relationship, whatever. But that would be a ridiculous claim to say that dating is only, you know, superficial and, you know, shallow towards looks and personality means nothing. Of course, a girl is going to be more attractive to you and you're going to like her a lot more if her personality is what you're looking for. If she's got certain traits that you admire, maybe she's the same religion as you, whatever. So maybe people could resonate in that sense. So they're applying these different positives within her looks rating. I think could be the problem is it's, everything is being a bit distorted on like,

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  what trait is actually influencing the person to rate them this high?

• 1:05:58Graham Stephan?

  So you're saying that someone could see a woman as like a seven, but then just be distorted because all these other qualities make her a 10?

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:06:07Jack Selby?

  What I think is like, how do you make yourself as dateable as possible? But then I would probably, you and I would agree on the common thread of like, well, what would be a big component of being dateable? It would probably be physical attraction.

• 1:06:20Speaker 02

  What I would say is being as well-rounded as possible. So any metric really that you can think of, whether it be status, whether it be your career, your income, your looks, you know,

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  you know, your knowledge even. So really everything. So just every single stat that you can possibly max, do it. That's how you become dateable.

• 1:06:43Graham Stephan?

  So you have a girlfriend now.

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:45Graham Stephan?

  How did you pick her as a girlfriend?

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  Kind of just met her one night and then she moved in like a few days later.

• 1:06:54Graham Stephan?

  A few days? How'd you meet her?

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  At my, at the club.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  And I brought her and her friend back.

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  That's with them.

• 1:07:06Graham Stephan?

  Both of them?

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:09Graham Stephan?

  At this, at the same time?

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I liked her better, so.

• 1:07:13Graham Stephan?

  How did that go with the friend? Do you just, when, when did you make the decision?

• 1:07:18Speaker 02

  Like immediately. The friend had like a weird smell to her.

• 1:07:24Graham Stephan?

  Did you tell the friend that she smelled?

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:27Graham Stephan?

  And what'd she say?

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Just, ah, sorry.

• 1:07:32Graham Stephan?

  What was this, what was the smell? I know Jack has questions. What, what was the smell? Was it like a BO smell or was it just-

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, just like a BO, like post-club, you know? Like, it's understandable. Like, I don't really have a problem with it. Like, sure, my, my, you know, balls have smelled like 10 times worse, you know, so.

• 1:07:48Graham Stephan?

  But that was enough for you that the one is like not, but the other one didn't smell?

• 1:07:52Jack Selby?

  So that was the differentiating factor?

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Well, that just like allowed me to like-

• 1:07:56Jack Selby?

  Isolate?

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Further the communications, you know, to her. But it's just like, it's a stupid story, but yeah, I mean, I think I've had a girlfriend throughout my, the entirety of my career.

• 1:08:09Jack Selby?

  Wait, so we were, I still am not quite through with this. So you brought them both back. How is their relationship now? Is it fractured?

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 1:08:17Jack Selby?

  They're chilling.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Makes girls better friends. That's why I always ask two girls. I'm like, are you guys friends? They're like, yeah. I'm like, do you want to be really good friends?

• 1:08:25Jack Selby?

  That is an insane line.

• 1:08:27Graham Stephan?

  How often does that work?

• 1:08:29Speaker 02

  I'd say probably like, I don't know, maybe a dozen times.

• 1:08:34Graham Stephan?

  What's the ratio though? Like, how many times have you asked that and it doesn't work versus it works?

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  50/50, probably.

• 1:08:43Jack Selby?

  So you've asked about two dozen times?

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:46Jack Selby?

  That is, I mean, that is like insane batting average.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  Well, usually like you have to kind of know, like, like you're not just shooting it at every girl.

• 1:08:54Jack Selby?

  It's not the Steph Curry from the moon shot.

• 1:08:57Speaker 02

  You can tell like a little bit if a girl's in her friend or like with it.

• 1:09:01Graham Stephan?

  But is this happening on stream? Like, obviously not like coming back here, but like when you're approaching and asking these questions, is that on stream? How much does it help you to have a camera?

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  It actually hurts me quite a bit because girls want to like get a clip off and like, get famous from like rejecting club. And it's like, I know the chick's going like, you know, if the camera's not here. So I've done like streams where, you know, I had like a hidden cam, like from across the street. And I'm like cold approaching or just standing there and like, girls are a lot more receptive when there's no camera.

• 1:09:37Jack Selby?

  And so the morning after, you just kicked out her friend, you say, hey, sorry, not interested.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  The 10 minutes after.

• 1:09:43Jack Selby?

  10 minutes after?

• 1:09:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:45Jack Selby?

  And she didn't feel any, you know, regret or like upset about it or she was pretty chilling?

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean-

• 1:09:53Jack Selby?

  Do you still see her around?

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  Nah. Nah, she, she was, has a boyfriend and was cheating.

• 1:10:01Graham Stephan?

  No.

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  I didn't know. I always, I always will kick out the girl if I find out they're cheating, you know? Like, I'm not, I'm not always down for that, but it usually just happens that like I'll find out after.

• 1:10:14Graham Stephan?

  Wait a second, I saw a clip.

• 1:10:16Speaker 02

  Nah, she got-

• 1:10:17Graham Stephan?

  What? She's still with him?

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, she got the dude's name tatted. I was like, an apology.

• 1:10:24Graham Stephan?

  No.

• 1:10:24Jack Selby?

  See, that's Miami, dude.

• 1:10:25Graham Stephan?

  Holy-

• 1:10:26Jack Selby?

  That is Miami and that's why I can't live here. It's just like-

• 1:10:28Graham Stephan?

  That is insane. Now, I remember seeing one clip of you, man. You were at the bar and you were talking to this girl and what, the guy came up to you and he was begging you like not to get her number?

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, bro, that was a-

• 1:10:40Graham Stephan?

  Is this real?

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's like, that's real life. That was in New York. And it's like, if you have to like beg your girl, like, oh, stop, or, you know, go up to other guys, be like, stop talking to my girl. It's like, bro, that's not your girl. Like, she's going.

• 1:10:54Jack Selby?

  Oh, that would break my heart. And then I would like, I don't think that would be recoverable. I don't think I could ever look at her the same.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Dude, I mean, if, if your girl's like-

• 1:11:03Jack Selby?

  Openly doing that.

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, like entertaining other conversations, even if like, I were to be like, yeah, like, all right, no problem, man, you know, like, why?

• 1:11:12Jack Selby?

  That, that relationship is cooked, even if you said that.

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  It's cooked, yeah. So it's almost like, anytime like that happens, like, some dudes will get mad and like crash out on like their girl or the dude. But it's almost just like, well, I, I would see it as if that happened to me, I'd be like, yo, thank God. Like, I found this out sooner or later.

• 1:11:29Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, sooner the better you find out about that.

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, for real, you know? So there's no point to get mad about it. Just be like, all right, like, you know, that's, that's the way of the world.

• 1:11:39Jack Selby?

  Do you know what happened between them?

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 1:11:42Graham Stephan?

  I still can't get over the-

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  Probably still together, bro.

• 1:11:44Graham Stephan?

  The girl getting a tattoo. To like as an apology. Why do you think he didn't leave her? And does he know it was you specifically?

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  I mean, it's on a fucking livestream. But the thing is like, people would rather like put up with this than not have a girlfriend and be lonely. So that's kind of like how it goes. And the, the thing that really like helps you in a relationship is if a girl knows like that you have access to other women and like there's other options out there for you. Cause she's not going to like, you know, try to walk all over you and be entertaining other guys. Cause then you're just going to break up with her, right? And then go on to the next girl.

• 1:12:26Graham Stephan?

  If it was on livestream though, wouldn't she know that this is going to get back to her boyfriend?

• 1:12:31Speaker 02

  She probably knew he would fucking like, you know, take her-

• 1:12:34Graham Stephan?

  That's probably why she did it.

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:36Jack Selby?

  Do you think she could cheat on him again and then they could stay together?

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  For sure, dude. Yeah, girl, she-

• 1:12:40Jack Selby?

  What's your advice to this guy?

• 1:12:42Speaker 02

  You gotta just like, realize that you're better off being single than being in a situation where your heart is constantly broken and a girl is just completely like all over you.

• 1:12:56Jack Selby?

  Do you think that relationships are only ever cat and mouses? And you would always advocate, hey, the guy has to be the mouse, running away. And they, you know, you always have the cat chasing it. So like, you have to-

• 1:13:07Speaker 02

  It's gotta be, yeah.

• 1:13:07Jack Selby?

  Have your options open. And then women are probably saying like in their, whatever they use to communicate, like men on Reddit, women on whatever it is. And they are probably saying, yeah, you have to be a mouse. You gotta, you know, keep your guy, you know, in check, never show too much excitement.

• 1:13:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, I, I just hate like getting into the whole like dating dynamics thing because it's just like the red pill. And like a lot of the talking points will be said by the same people who are just like, oh, like fuck whores, like all this, you know, a lot of misogynistic talking points. And just like shitting all over women, even though some of it is true, you know, about just like framing the relationship.

• 1:13:51Jack Selby?

  Where do you draw the line between objectivity and misogyny?

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  If there's a statistic out there, something about the amount of, of sexual partners, either gender will have on average, like in your citing these statistics, like I don't think that really makes you misogynistic. I think that just like makes you going over, you know, the, the state of the dating market. But if you're going out and you're only like spreading these facts about like, how women are, are acting and, you know, with no calling of attention towards like the fact that maybe this generation of men isn't the greatest either. A lot of them are financially dispositioned. So it kind of makes sense for women to only want to go for like the top profiles.

• 1:14:38Speaker 02

  Like, I think you just kind of need to realize what's wrong with both sides.

• 1:14:41Jack Selby?

  What do you think of Myron Gaines?

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  I've been on Myron's show a lot, you know, and I've, I've watched a lot of his streams. I think that, you know, a lot of, of what he says is true, you know? And, and I've been on his, his late night show, the after hours with a lot of girls. And he'll talk about a lot of things that are really relevant to dating today.

• 1:15:04Jack Selby?

  Do you think that he's a misogynist?

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  I think misogyny, like in, in my definition, would be like a hatred for women, right?

• 1:15:12Jack Selby?

  Like incel or something?

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think Myron hates women. I think he just realizes that there's a difference between genders and that gender roles are important, right? I think he, he says that our men are the leaders in the relationship and women are there in more of like an emotional supportive role. I think that's, that's a fair take to give.

• 1:15:34Jack Selby?

  So how long have you and your girlfriend been dating?

• 1:15:36Speaker 02

  Since April.

• 1:15:37Jack Selby?

  And are you guys monogamous?

• 1:15:39Speaker 02

  You know, I'd be lying if I said I haven't gotten with another girl. You know.

• 1:15:45Jack Selby?

  You are you you're open with her with that, right?

• 1:15:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:49Jack Selby?

  So she knows.

• 1:15:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:50Jack Selby?

  What does she think of that?

• 1:15:52Speaker 02

  I mean, like, at the end of the day, there's a difference between like sex and love, right? I think women can kind of understand to a degree that men could just like have so the random girl and it's just a release. It's just like physical stimulation and there's nothing more to it than that.

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  So I think that there's a bit of an understanding.

• 1:16:15Jack Selby?

  Do you think having the door open and always having options and women available decreases the intensity at which you can love your girlfriend?

• 1:16:25Speaker 02

  It's possible, but like, you know, it's not something that I like doing or like intend on. It's just sometimes like I go to the club, I get drunk and like it happens. But that sounds like something I want to be doing, you know? I don't want to be doing like this, this whole degenerate, like, you know, drinking and going out all the time. So that's just me being like immature, but it's not something I see last thing.

• 1:16:49Jack Selby?

  So that's more like a lack of restraint or willpower to.

• 1:16:52Speaker 02

  Me being an idiot, like adjusting to fame, you know?

• 1:16:56Jack Selby?

  And did that cause hiccups in the relationship that you were doing that? Or did she kind of assume that that was probably going to happen?

• 1:17:02Speaker 02

  Probably assumed it just based on the circumstances of, you know, the introduction.

• 1:17:06Jack Selby?

  Would you get a tattoo of her name to apologize to her?

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  I'd never get a tattoo.

• 1:17:10Jack Selby?

  How would you feel if she asked if she should get a tattoo of your name?

• 1:17:15Speaker 02

  I I'm very against tattoos.

• 1:17:17Jack Selby?

  But she has tattoos, I saw.

• 1:17:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, that doesn't mean I like it.

• 1:17:21Jack Selby?

  Would you pay to remove her tattoos?

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  I don't know, probably not, but it's just not something that I prefer.

• 1:17:29Jack Selby?

  Do you still approach women?

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:31Jack Selby?

  And what is the goal of these approaches?

• 1:17:34Speaker 02

  Like seeing if I still got it.

• 1:17:37Jack Selby?

  How many women?

• 1:17:37Speaker 02

  Entertainment?

• 1:17:38Jack Selby?

  How many women do you think you've approached in your life?

• 1:17:40Speaker 02

  Oh, probably 10,000.

• 1:17:43Jack Selby?

  10,000 women?

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  I've approached like in a single night, like probably 200 girls before.

• 1:17:49Jack Selby?

  And did you notice like the 150th was better than the 20th?

• 1:17:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's usually how it goes.

• 1:17:57Jack Selby?

  There's not like a diminishing return because I get tired of talking after some time.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  It's more like club like approaches, like, yes, the couple of words and either yes or no. But.

• 1:18:09Jack Selby?

  Yes or no to what?

• 1:18:10Speaker 02

  Whatever, like, you know, I'm.

• 1:18:12Jack Selby?

  Gotta go get a drink or something like that.

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  Something like that. I'm pretty straight, straight up with it, but.

• 1:18:17Jack Selby?

  Straight up with what?

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  With what I'm saying, I'm like, you know.

• 1:18:21Jack Selby?

  Oh, like, do you want to like get to know each other better?

• 1:18:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, something like that, but.

• 1:18:26Jack Selby?

  I want to know what the opener is. Something like that. Well, what is it?

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  Jav wants to know the line. Do you want to do you want to come back to my?

• 1:18:34Jack Selby?

  So you're at, okay, so you're basically that you asked that off rip.

• 1:18:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, usually.

• 1:18:38Jack Selby?

  And so you failed 199 times before the 200th. Did you end in a success that night?

• 1:18:42Speaker 02

  Uh, that was in college. I I get a lot of like girls who say yes, but then like I'm doing like a bunch of and like, I don't want to end my stream right then and there. If every single time like a girl said yes to that, like I'll, I'll go home and like, you know, sleep with you right now. My stream might end after 45 minutes. I'd get the result that I'm looking for, but.

• 1:19:03Jack Selby?

  Well, you said you did this in college. The stream doesn't need to end there. It could be a different website. So you did this in college that without the stream?

• 1:19:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just used to spam cold approach.

• 1:19:11Jack Selby?

  Okay, so now that you've cold approached probably 10,000 women.

• 1:19:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've gotten rejected more times than.

• 1:19:17Jack Selby?

  What is the worst rejection you've ever experienced?

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  I mean, like, you only get really bad rejections if like you don't understand body language or if like some dudes are are pretty weird, like they'll get rejected by a girl and like it's an obvious like I O D indication of disinterest and they'll still like continue the conversation.

• 1:19:38Jack Selby?

  So what's an obvious I O D?

• 1:19:40Speaker 02

  Just like a really unreceptive like posture, like turning away from you like that.

• 1:19:47Jack Selby?

  A non-obvious I O D?

• 1:19:50Speaker 02

  Just saying like, uh, do you want to go home with me and like the, the girl says, oh, I'm with my friends. It's like if a girl really wanted to go home with you, they would find a way to get around that, right? So that's her saying like, you know, an excuse to not let you down too hard. But some dudes will like not understand that and they'll be like, oh, well, like, you know, they could do this and try to like come up with like a logistical solution. It's like, no, the girl just isn't into it. So I'm very good at like picking up right off the bat, like if a girl doesn't want to talk to me, I know right away and I'll just go off. And I think it's perfectly fine to cold approach like all the time, as long as you're super respectful about

• 1:20:33Speaker 02

  like, okay, this, this person is not interested whatsoever, disengage.

• 1:20:36Jack Selby?

  What can someone do when approaching to maximize their chances of success? And what are the most common failures of the cold approach?

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  I would say the most common failures is like.

• 1:20:49Speaker 05

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• 1:21:33Speaker 02

  Like not having an I O I first, like just going up to girls who don't even like, like know you're, you're there and then you're.

• 1:21:42Jack Selby?

  What's I O I?

• 1:21:44Speaker 02

  An indication of interest, like maybe they give you a smile and are giving you eye contact. And then you go up to them, the chance of success is going to be like a lot better than if you just like approach a girl who's like on her phone and doesn't even know like that you're there, you know? Cause maybe it'll work, but, um, you know, there's, there's no guarantee. But regardless, like I'm, I'm pretty bad, like, you know, with my game and like cold approaching, like that whole thing. I got, I just think it's like kind of funny and I'm like, fine, like sort of embarrassing myself and like getting rejected. Like I don't have a problem with that. I'm not claiming to be some like pickup master because I actually think I'm like quite.

• 1:22:23Jack Selby?

  You haven't improved with 10,000 reps?

• 1:22:25Speaker 02

  Oh, no, certainly. But it's more so I've improved like at looks maxing and being famous. So it's like kind of hard to attribute it to like, you know, my conversational abilities when now I'm like huge on social media.

• 1:22:38Jack Selby?

  What do you think you could improve on in the cold approach?

• 1:22:43Jack Selby?

  You still think you need a Jester Max more?

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  No, no, Jester Max less. I think just like finding more like interesting things in terms of the dialogue. Like I don't really have like a lot of dialogues, options, it's like interesting things to talk about. I don't know, just like that, I guess would be good.

• 1:23:02Jack Selby?

  Would you date a girl who makes more money than you?

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  Find me one.

• 1:23:07Speaker 02

  Probably, yeah, I mean, I guess I don't really have too much of a problem with that, but just not like something that's likely.

• 1:23:16Jack Selby?

  Would you rather date, let's say, all else considered equal? Date a woman that makes more than you or date a woman that makes 50K a year?

• 1:23:26Speaker 02

  It's more so just about the fact that like, you know, you don't want your girl's attention to be anywhere else than the relationship, in my opinion.

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  And like, you know, potentially if you have a family in the future, like you don't want a girl who's, you know, super dedicated to like a career, like a startup when, you know, you have, you have two newborn kids, you know? That's how I see it.

• 1:23:53Jack Selby?

  Are you better or worse looking than your girlfriend?

• 1:23:56Speaker 02

  I wouldn't answer that.

• 1:23:58Jack Selby?

  That's your favorite question, though. Or it's one of them. You've asked several people that question.

• 1:24:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I always ask, no, I usually ask like girls who are friends.

• 1:24:07Jack Selby?

  But you're not willing to answer.

• 1:24:09Speaker 02

  I think I know in my head.

• 1:24:13Jack Selby?

  Then I think then your answer is apparent.

• 1:24:16Speaker 02

  I think my girlfriend's very pretty. And.

• 1:24:19Jack Selby?

  However.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  That's all I'm gonna say.

• 1:24:22Jack Selby?

  Comma, but that's.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  Well, like.

• 1:24:27Jack Selby?

  She just hasn't put in the work.

• 1:24:29Speaker 02

  No, no, no, I think I would be perfectly fine and happy if I, I had a girlfriend who's better looking and so that wouldn't be a problem to me. So like, whatever people think, I don't really care, you know, but

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  it's hard to be objective when there's like all the other things, like, you know, you being attracted to like someone's personality to.

• 1:24:54Jack Selby?

  It sounds like you would care what she thinks, though, if you said that you're better looking, no?

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  No, I love that doesn't influence.

• 1:25:00Jack Selby?

  So why would you not? Like, what's your internal dialogue telling you?

• 1:25:04Speaker 02

  Even if the answer is not out of ego and it's like purely, purely objective and you're like, okay, like her and you know, you mapped out every single.

• 1:25:14Jack Selby?

  So you didn't want to say it.

• 1:25:15Speaker 02

  Of every person's face and then you said that you think either your girlfriend or yourself is more attractive than you just look like an asshole, quite frankly.

• 1:25:24Jack Selby?

  So it's a trap when you ask the question.

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. It's a trap. Yeah.

• 1:25:29Jack Selby?

  Okay, that's fair.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  It's just to see if like someone will be like honest and brutal or if someone will be like.

• 1:25:36Jack Selby?

  So what's the best way to handle it? Graham, are you better? I'll watch this. I'll give you an opportunity. Graham, are you better or worse looking than your wife?

• 1:25:43Graham Stephan?

  Hey, by the way, really quick, if you want extra content just like this, as well as early access and a bonus post show posted every single week, feel free to join as a channel member to get immediate access to all of that as well as early access to everything else that we post, along with priority responses to all of your comments. So if that sounds cool, feel free to join. Would love to have you on board. Thanks so much. We'll get back to the podcast now.

• 1:26:06Jack Selby?

  Graham, are you better? I'll watch this. I'll give you an opportunity. Graham, are you better or worse looking than your wife?

• 1:26:11Graham Stephan?

  Worse.

• 1:26:12Jack Selby?

  I think she's better looking. However.

• 1:26:16Graham Stephan?

  However,

• 1:26:16Jack Selby?

  It sounded like there was a however. I think she's better looking.

• 1:26:20Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, well, I think that's the truth. I think it's, I think it's pretty clear. But I think it's a win. Like, I take that as a

• 1:26:25Jack Selby?

  You look like Tom Cruise.

• 1:26:26Graham Stephan?

  I think, I think it's a compliment. If you can get someone who's better looking than you, I think that's, that's a compliment. Because then genetically, I've just basically maxed out your offspring. If they're better looking. So I think that, that I, I just did a service for the, the rest of humanity right there.

• 1:26:43Jack Selby?

  Thank you.

• 1:26:43Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, you're, you're welcome.

• 1:26:44Speaker 02

  I think my girlfriend's really attractive, so there, it doesn't matter regardless.

• 1:26:49Jack Selby?

  What do you like about her?

• 1:26:50Speaker 02

  I don't really get into too much about, like, her, our, our relationship, but like, just having her in my presence while I'm like, working is nice, you know? Women feel like a very important role and like their energy that they bring around. So it's, it's important.

• 1:27:10Jack Selby?

  What about the energy specifically?

• 1:27:13Speaker 02

  I just, you just feel better, you know, like, whenever I'm like doing work on my computer and my girlfriend's like sitting on the couch behind me. I don't know how to explain it.

• 1:27:21Jack Selby?

  Did you feel lonely without having a girlfriend?

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  It's a different, fills a different role because I've always had like, you know, my friends and like people around, but like, a girlfriend is like a different type of connection, you know? So maybe, yeah.

• 1:27:35Graham Stephan?

  I saw the one clip recently where you told her she was spending more than $1,500 a week. I think it was again, $1,800 on a camera. Does she have a budget on like how much to spend a week? Or is it like a rough estimate? Like, how does that work?

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  You know, obviously if you say to a girl, like, I don't want you to have a job and like, I want you to focus on like the relationship. Then it's your obligation to like, you know, take care of them and support them. And that's like something people don't really understand, um, who are like, you know, poor. Cause a lot of like situations are dual income families, whatever. So, you know, I was saying like, I think $6,000 a month is more than anyone in this world needs to spend. That's more than

• 1:28:23Jack Selby?

  If they don't have rent.

• 1:28:24Speaker 02

  But they don't have any expenses, not a single bill. So like, that's more than most people make.

• 1:28:28Graham Stephan?

  How do you determine market value in terms of payment? Like, how much this person should spend? Why $6,000 a month and not 10 or not four?

• 1:28:41Jack Selby?

  Yeah. How'd you arrive to that number?

• 1:28:46Graham Stephan?

  Is it W2? Is it like health benefits too?

• 1:28:49Speaker 02

  I don't know. I think that's just an amount that's fine with me. Like, I think it's just the amount that, that makes sense. There's like, you, you can get like new clothes and stuff with that much money. Um, and that's really about it.

• 1:29:04Graham Stephan?

  Does it scale with how much money you make?

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:29:08Graham Stephan?

  It's just that, that's what, that's just market rate. If you make 20 million a year or a million a year.

• 1:29:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. I just thought to myself, like, you look at what shit costs and you look at what she's buying. It's like, no reason for like more than 1,500 a week, even if I had unlimited money.

• 1:29:26Graham Stephan?

  Where does $1,500 a week go? Like, what do you spend $1,500 a week on?

• 1:29:32Speaker 02

  Well, the reason that I, I did it was because it was just like a lot of waste of like, you know, sometimes like, oh, I, I want a smoothie or something like that. And then it goes on a food delivery thing. And it's like, it comes out to like $50 with all the fees and for a $5 thing. So it's more so like, uh, you know, you, you want like a smoothie or something? How about you get like, you know, seven of them and keep the other six in the fridge? So we are a little bit more economical here. Instead of like door dashing every single meal. How about, you know, things get cooked from time to time. So it's really just more so about like getting rid of wastes than anything.

• 1:30:15Graham Stephan?

  I watched the podcast you did with Fresh and Fit. You mentioned something about wanting waffles in the morning.

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:21Graham Stephan?

  Did that change? Do you get waffles in the morning?

• 1:30:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, but not from my girlfriend. Usually I, I have, um, like a, a maid who, who does it.

• 1:30:31Jack Selby?

  How much do you work?

• 1:30:33Speaker 02

  Pretty much all I do. So, uh, from the time I wake up to the time I sleep.

• 1:30:38Graham Stephan?

  How many people do you have working with you? Cause I gotta say, the, the people we met today, impeccable. I'm talking like you.

• 1:30:45Jack Selby?

  Yeah, look at all this lighting. We have like this box above us providing light right here. We got that light over there.

• 1:30:50Graham Stephan?

  We even have a light over here that shimmers for the, like, the thought that goes in, the behind the scenes here that you've kind of assembled is really impressive.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I think in person I have like seven people that live with me and work, uh, for me. And then like, you know, another dozen or so, just virtual assistants, shit like that.

• 1:31:16Graham Stephan?

  Who does all the hiring and the firing and all that sort of stuff?

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  It's a mix. Uh, I know some people like my cameraman have been with me pretty much since I started streaming. And, you know, now I have someone who runs a lot of the business development, like a CEO.

• 1:31:34Jack Selby?

  You have a CEO?

• 1:31:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Who does all the, uh, you know, most of the hiring and firing now.

• 1:31:40Jack Selby?

  What's the worst business decision you've ever made?

• 1:31:43Speaker 02

  I do a lot of stupid stuff, you know, sometimes all like self deposit and like gamble money. I've, I've done that. Like I've done like a $60,000 spend before.

• 1:31:54Jack Selby?

  How much money have you lost self deposit and gambling?

• 1:31:57Speaker 02

  Probably like 20K.

• 1:31:59Graham Stephan?

  That's not terrible.

• 1:32:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, I, I mean, I think it is.

• 1:32:03Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  Uh, just like, you know, 20, 20K. Um, you know, compared to like how much I've made, yeah, it's, it's not a lot, but like, I wouldn't, it's just stupid. You shouldn't have done it. So yeah, I try to keep the margins as tight as possible. Um, so yeah, no, like when people hear the thing about like, oh, a $6,000 budget a month. Or they'll be like, um, oh, clavicular, like, don't you make this? Like, why are you, you know, being so, uh, so strict about it? And it's like strict about it. That's like an insane amount of money, $6,000 to spend when you have no bills.

• 1:32:40Jack Selby?

  What's the most valuable business lesson that you've learned in your life?

• 1:32:46Speaker 02

  The relationships you make with people, um, are extremely, extremely important, right? Like, and not doing business with people that you just don't trust and, um, you know, you don't get along with. I think it's very important that you actually get along with your business partners.

• 1:33:03Jack Selby?

  How did you learn that lesson?

• 1:33:05Speaker 02

  By not getting along with people and trying to make things work, uh, to increase revenue, but you know, uh, the relationship eventually goes to shit.

• 1:33:14Jack Selby?

  I want to talk about each one of your income sources and businesses.

• 1:33:17Graham Stephan?

  How's it broken down right now in terms of different income sources?

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  There's gambling, there's, which is a, a pretty big one. Um, live streaming, you get paid on kick for, you know, your concurrent viewers for how many hours you stream. And then you have some of the short form monetization, like the X monetization. You have Snapchat, which is a new one that's really big.

• 1:33:42Jack Selby?

  Let's, let's break down each of these because I'm, I'm curious, what do you make on Snapchat?

• 1:33:47Speaker 02

  Few, few grand a day.

• 1:33:48Jack Selby?

  Few grand?

• 1:33:49Graham Stephan?

  That's so, that's a ton.

• 1:33:50Jack Selby?

  Like a hundred grand a month.

• 1:33:51Speaker 02

  Almost.

• 1:33:52Graham Stephan?

  Are we talking just from the photos?

• 1:33:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:55Graham Stephan?

  Holy crap.

• 1:33:56Jack Selby?

  How many people watch it?

• 1:33:57Speaker 02

  I, I don't, I don't really understand how the metrics work. I just have someone that, that runs it for me, um, and takes all the pictures, posts them. And I, I don't know if it's like, it, it's more so about like watch time and like how many people, how many stories they're clicking through. So maybe like a hundred thousand, but it's like, are there a hundred thousand people looking at one story or a hundred thousand people looking at a hundred?

• 1:34:18Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 1:34:19Speaker 02

  Say litter ads throughout where people are clicking through, you know?

• 1:34:22Jack Selby?

  That's insane. Like that is some crazy monetization. I'm curious, with the concurrent viewers with kick, what does kick pay you?

• 1:34:29Speaker 02

  Somewhere around like a thousand an hour usually.

• 1:34:33Jack Selby?

  And how many viewers does that take to get paid a thousand dollars an hour?

• 1:34:37Speaker 02

  If I'm not mistaken, what I've heard is like, it's, uh, $10 for like a hundred viewers or something like that. But I think they kind of fluctuate it manually. I don't really, uh, understand how, how the KPP metrics work. Cause sometimes I'll have the same concurrent viewers and it'll be less and it'll fluctuate. So it doesn't make, make sense. You know, it, it's kind of just like, uh, whether kick sort of likes you that month, I think.

• 1:35:06Jack Selby?

  And the gambling deal. I know that this is like for everybody, like the way that everyone makes insane amounts of money. Like YouTube income used to be one thing, and then the gambling deals with like streamers and stuff and steak, rubout, whatever it is, those came out and completely changed. Like how much money people are making, unheard of amounts.

• 1:35:24Graham Stephan?

  Oh my gosh, yeah.

• 1:35:25Jack Selby?

  I'm curious, what does your gambling deal look like?

• 1:35:28Speaker 02

  So I gamble 15K every day and, um, like it just, whatever I keep at the end of my gambling session, sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less. But usually it's, uh, a lot more, um, than that. So I'm positive for the past three months and I gamble every day.

• 1:35:48Jack Selby?

  Interesting. So what's the most you've ever made in a session?

• 1:35:51Speaker 02

  I think the most I've ever made in a day gambling is like 85K.

• 1:35:55Jack Selby?

  Holy cow. So your, your best income source is probably gambling.

• 1:35:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, no. So I would say gambling is probably the top. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. But I don't really like to tell people exactly how much money I make anymore. Like I do well for myself streaming. I got, people have somewhat of an idea. Um, I'm sure you could do the math, kind of like what's publicly out there on like how much I make. But, you know, it's unwise to let people know exactly.

• 1:36:23Jack Selby?

  I think the difference between, I mean, I would estimate probably 300, 400 grand a month. I think the difference between Three hundred or two hundred grand a month and five hundred grand a month is the same thing to like ninety nine point nine nine nine nine nine percent.

• 1:36:35Graham Stephan?

  Could be a million a month. I'm saying.

• 1:36:38Speaker 02

  I mean, for gambling, just from that, I make a lot more than than that.

• 1:36:42Jack Selby?

  Really?

• 1:36:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:44Jack Selby?

  Then you're not, it's not fifteen K a day.

• 1:36:46Speaker 02

  That's what I start with, but I'm I'm positive for the month, you know, so like I end with more than that. So like, I'll start gambling with fifteen thousand in the account and then I'll, you know, usually end up with a lot more. Cause like some days you could run it up to even eighty five K and some days I lose it all. But like, overall, it's positive.

• 1:37:06Graham Stephan?

  Just thinking that maybe like, you know, women for OnlyFans is almost like the men for gambling.

• 1:37:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's commonly said. Yeah.

• 1:37:15Graham Stephan?

  I mean, it's substantial. Yeah.

• 1:37:17Jack Selby?

  I'm, I just feel like everyone thinks when they seen, and don't quote me and sue me for this. But when people see Trainwrecks TV hit like a fifty million dollar win. There's just no way that's real. Like my brain immediately thinks this has to be fake. Like, there's no way this dude's spinning and fifty million.

• 1:37:37Graham Stephan?

  Wait, you're talking fifty, fifty, five zero?

• 1:37:39Speaker 02

  Has like a billion dollars a day in in wagers. So like, um, that that's absolutely real. They're not gonna like, you know, risk their, all of their licenses and how much money they're making from their situation to boost someone's account. To get like marketing, like people are already gambling on steak, whether Trainwrecks hits for fifty mil or not. Like, that's really not a big boost for them and they're not gonna risk, um, everything that they have going on for them to.

• 1:38:05Jack Selby?

  But when you're a paid gambler and you win three months in a row, that also makes me, I hesitate.

• 1:38:10Graham Stephan?

  Is it a little like skewed?

• 1:38:12Jack Selby?

  Yeah. Hey, instead of it being, you know, fifty one percent house, we're gonna go forty nine percent house with this person. I mean, obviously, don't know me.

• 1:38:19Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, or even if it's a fifty fifty.

• 1:38:20Jack Selby?

  This is also good to have this conversation because a lot of people, I am guessing, assume this.

• 1:38:24Speaker 02

  No, it's just like with the slot multipliers, like, um, I don't know, I've just always gotten kind of lucky with it. Where like, I'll be doing like five hundred dollar spins and I'll, I'll lose like three in a row. Then I'll randomly like up this, the buy to like two K and then I'll hit like a, a max win multiplier. And some of the multipliers are like seventy thousand is like the max win, seventy thousand X. So like.

• 1:38:48Graham Stephan?

  What does that do to your perception of money when you're like up and down a few, tens of thousands of dollars a day? Does that skew like how you view the cost of like a coffee or like rent, a car?

• 1:39:02Speaker 02

  No, not really.

• 1:39:04Graham Stephan?

  You're able to separate the two, categorize each one and say, oh, that's a car. This is just my gambling money.

• 1:39:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't really like, uh, live in, in too much luxury, you know? I have, uh, just the, the Sprinter and I have a, an SUV. Like, I don't even have any other cars, because why would I? It's like, I don't even drive.

• 1:39:23Jack Selby?

  How do you make sure you're not getting taken advantage of? Because virtually every single person that I've known that started making really good money at a young age, that didn't have a lot of mentors around. I remember last time we spoke, you said you don't really have any mentors. How do you make sure that you aren't being taken advantage of?

• 1:39:36Speaker 02

  Well, now I do. And now I have people that, that kind of look out for me. And as of, you know, networked with a lot more people, uh, who are in really successful positions. Someone doing like a lot better than you, like, isn't really gonna be out to get you, like, you know? Uh, I'm friends with people who are, are worth, you know, nine, ten figures. Like, they don't really care to, like, try to fuck me over in my situation and give me bad advice. So now I have a, a better grasp on things.

• 1:40:08Jack Selby?

  So what's some of the best advice you've received? Best financial advice?

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  Probably that it's not about what you make, it's about what you save. Cause I've had some months where I was, you know, making a lot more than I do, but the expenses were, uh, you know, quite higher. So now it's like I end, uh, every single month, uh, better off net profit wise, you know? But the top of the line revenue might be a little less, whether it be spending on like stream production that doesn't actually translate into real income or, uh, something like that, you know, technology that I don't need, just whatever.

• 1:40:46Graham Stephan?

  What's the ideal amount of money to make? Have you noticed any diminishing returns above a certain amount?

• 1:40:52Speaker 02

  Uh, no, it doesn't really make a difference because I, outside of like, you know, my bills and what stuff costs, salaries. Like, I'm not really spending too much money on a day to day basis. Uh, I, it's, it's not like we're going to the club and blowing like, you know, ten K every Friday night. Just doesn't happen.

• 1:41:13Jack Selby?

  What's the most you've ever dropped at the club?

• 1:41:16Speaker 02

  Eight, eight thousand dollars?

• 1:41:17Jack Selby?

  That's not bad. I mean, especially if you're making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. What's the, what's the most amount of money you've ever wasted?

• 1:41:24Speaker 02

  Well, sometimes I'll like, I'll pick Airbnbs or hotels that are just like ridiculously overpriced. Like when we were staying at our last hotel, I think it was like eight K a night or something like that, which is like not necessary.

• 1:41:38Jack Selby?

  What hotel was that?

• 1:41:39Speaker 02

  Uh, one in Israel.

• 1:41:41Jack Selby?

  That is so interesting. Yeah. I mean, honestly, it's, it's very surprising. It seems like you're pretty financially responsible. Not that that I wouldn't have expected that, but I, I don't know, very few people are, especially when they start making such good money at a young age.

• 1:41:53Graham Stephan?

  Well, you seem very calculated to me. It doesn't seem like this happened by accident. It seems like you're very, you kind of know what you're doing.

• 1:42:01Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I've, you know, that's not to say that I haven't, you know, fucked up like in a lot of ways. Um, but it's just like, I, I kind of would learn a lot from like seeing my parents' situation. Cause my dad, um, you know, I, I grew up like very well off, but my dad would still steal toiletries from like hotels and stuff like that.

• 1:42:27Speaker 02

  Um, like, you know, not, not actually steal, but it's just like take home like the little shampoo bottles from the room. Uh, even though, uh, he's making insane amounts of money. So just like all these principles, just you grow up with it and, you know, you're seeing it, that's just kind of how you are gonna be as well.

• 1:42:43Jack Selby?

  How much do you spend every month? Like, what's your monthly overhead? You have this penthouse apartment, you have another one, apparently that's way nicer, you said.

• 1:42:51Speaker 02

  I would say maybe like four hundred or something like that.

• 1:42:56Jack Selby?

  It's four hundred thousand dollars a month?

• 1:42:58Graham Stephan?

  Own you account for staff?

• 1:42:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, probably around there.

• 1:43:01Graham Stephan?

  Payroll.

• 1:43:02Jack Selby?

  Does that include gambling losses?

• 1:43:04Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:43:05Jack Selby?

  How are you spending four hundred thousand dollars a month? What is, what is this penthouse?

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  This one is twenty a month.

• 1:43:11Jack Selby?

  And your other one?

• 1:43:12Speaker 02

  Thirty five.

• 1:43:14Graham Stephan?

  Plus seven people, plus probably paying for those people's food, plus security, plus all the other stuff.

• 1:43:22Jack Selby?

  Where's the most, where's most of it going?

• 1:43:24Speaker 02

  Salaries, travel is a, a big one. Traveling is.

• 1:43:29Jack Selby?

  You travel well, you fly first class and everything?

• 1:43:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, not, not everyone, but like sometimes I, I flew economy on the way over to Paris. But like I'll, I'll fly economy as much as I can. But it's more so just about like, you know, the Airbnbs and then, uh, every single time you, you want to go somewhere, Ubers. It just adds up, you know what I mean? Uh, traveling to Europe, especially places like Saint-Tropez and, uh, Mykonos are not the most, you know, cheap. That's, it's very expensive to spend, uh, the summer in Europe.

• 1:44:04Graham Stephan?

  You got a good tax person who's like filing for you now, right?

• 1:44:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I, this is gonna be like the first year where I've had to pay like a significant amount of taxes. Cause I didn't make too much money until about December of twenty twenty five. So, yeah, it's all, it's gonna hurt.

• 1:44:19Graham Stephan?

  How does that feel to write the check to the IRS?

• 1:44:22Speaker 02

  Haven't had the huge one yet, but, um, it's just, it's not great. It's not great.

• 1:44:29Jack Selby?

  Are you also making money from the membership?

• 1:44:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:32Jack Selby?

  Is that substantial or is that a?

• 1:44:34Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:44:35Jack Selby?

  So you kind of just do it on the side?

• 1:44:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:37Jack Selby?

  And do you do any one-on-one consulting?

• 1:44:39Speaker 02

  Sometimes, yeah.

• 1:44:40Jack Selby?

  Really?

• 1:44:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, sometimes I'll, I'll do it, but I mean, it's like, uh, I'm hugely burdened in terms of my time. So it's not something I can really do more than like a few times a week.

• 1:44:53Jack Selby?

  What do you charge for a one-on-one consultation?

• 1:44:55Speaker 02

  It's usually just something I'm doing for free, just like for, for people that I know.

• 1:45:00Jack Selby?

  Oh.

• 1:45:00Speaker 02

  It's not usually a paid thing. I mean, sometimes, but, um, yeah, usually just people calling me, asking me for, for tips that I'm friends with, that I've done collaborations with, whatever.

• 1:45:12Jack Selby?

  We had some questions for you last time submitted by an influencer. This time we have a couple more questions and I wanted to see what your response is to these.

• 1:45:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:45:24Speaker 06

  Okay, I see you out modeling. Uh, I know you've been on performance enhancing drugs, but you seem to have lost all of your muscle. You look a hundred percent natural and you're no longer going to the gym. Do you have any plans to actually go back to the gym and try to look max by putting on more muscle? I know lean is law, but what about putting on muscle? Will you be hum back into the gym to influence young people to actually train?

• 1:45:51Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, no, absolutely. I, I, um, I don't gym on stream. I started going like, you know, a few days ago when I got back, but it was just impossible with, between traveling and, uh, that whole thing. So yeah, I, I think the gym is a huge part of looks maxing. When Greg says you look natural, it's because realistically I am, like I'm on TRT, testosterone replacement therapy. That's not, um, you know, a steroid blast, bodybuilder type cycle. Uh, and it doesn't do the work for you, even if you are blasting steroids. If you're not going to the gym, um, then you're not gonna make gains. You could probably make, you know, similar gains, uh, with good diet and, and training, uh, you know, as a natural.

• 1:46:34Speaker 02

  Then someone who's just taking gear and, and L'Adare in some cases.

• 1:46:38Speaker 06

  So I see you got a nose surgery, a rhinoplasty. My girlfriend, she got the same thing out in Turkey. And so I was wondering, do you really think you needed to get this surgery done, you dumb fuck?

• 1:46:55Graham Stephan?

  I can send you that, just so you, just so you have that video.

• 1:46:57Speaker 02

  Send that, yeah.

• 1:46:57Graham Stephan?

  Mortisol spiking.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  Well, um, you know, if I recall, doesn't Greg have a hair transplant?

• 1:47:04Graham Stephan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:47:05Speaker 02

  Right? So does he really need that? I mean, what? He's a millionaire.

• 1:47:09Graham Stephan?

  You're giving him content right now.

• 1:47:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's a millionaire. He's got a girlfriend. Like, did you really need the hair transplant, bro? You know what I mean? So that's what I'd say to him. Did I need the nose job? Uh, probably not, but I, it ascended me. So the same reasons that he got his hair, hair done is the same reasons I got my nose.

• 1:47:28Speaker 06

  Clavicular. I think I found a worst fitness influencer than yourself. He goes by the name of Eric English. If you haven't heard of this guy, he's 16 years old. He's on performance enhancing drugs and a lot of them. And he's literally promoting a peptide company on Instagram. Do you think he's worse than you? What is your opinion on this?

• 1:47:52Speaker 02

  Um, I don't really think that Greg like knows anything that I've talked about because any of the advice that I've given, I've always followed it up with, you know, under the supervision of a doctor. Um, you know, as you've probably heard throughout this interview. So I don't think I've said anything too shocking. Um, you know, I've said things that I've done that are shocking, that are, uh, have a high risk associated with them. But I've always said, don't can do this. I've said, you know, maybe I'll have a drink at the club, uh, you know, on the stream. Uh, but, you know, I still acknowledge like how evil and how toxic, uh, consumption of alcohol is and that you shouldn't do it.

• 1:48:33Speaker 02

  It's one of the worst things, uh, for people who are in development. So I just don't know if Greg exactly understands, uh, what I'm all about and any of the protocols that I've actually recommended for people.

• 1:48:44Graham Stephan?

  We got another one from one of the most popular guests on our podcast, Chris Camillo.

• 1:48:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:48:51Graham Stephan?

  He says this, I agree with most of his looks maxing takes. Where he misses the mark is in diminishing returns. It's not about looks versus status versus charisma. Once you're in roughly the top 10 to 15% in one area, your highest ROI usually comes from improving other dimensions, not grinding to become the top 1% in the same category. That's the nuance. Ironically, he also un-

• 1:49:15Speaker 02

  I, I mean, I haven't ever said that. I, I kind of acknowledged the whole thing about diminishing returns. So I just don't, I think that's just another person that doesn't have a, a complete understanding of, uh, my takes or my ideology.

• 1:49:29Graham Stephan?

  He says ironically, he also underestimated how much of his current success is now driven by influence and celebrity, rather than incremental gains in his attractiveness. Additionally, I think his age shapes his perspective. Looks might get you into the room, but every new room has different bottlenecks. As you level up charisma, intelligence, reputation, competence, authentic relationships, status, wealth and actual accomplishment, and actual accomplishments often become the limiting factors. Being exceptionally good looking could even become a disadvantage in certain environments. I've seen it firsthand at the highest levels of business where people sometimes have to work harder to overcome the assumptions others make about them.

• 1:50:10Graham Stephan?

  Looks matter. They just stop being the bottlenecks sooner than many people realize. If you want to quote me, you can, but you never need, oh, I didn't need to say that. Thanks, Chris. Another perspective is selection bias. If your sample is dating, you'll conclude, you'll conclude that explains almost everything. But if your sample is CEOs, founders, lead athletes, politicians, entertainers, or anyone at the top of their field, the equation changes and looks won't get you as far as you think. He's also willing to trade you wealth maxing techniques for looks maxing techniques.

• 1:50:42Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:50:42Graham Stephan?

  And Chris Camillo is someone I would absolutely listen to, who has helped us tremendously. He's one of the few people I, I just love to back and forth with in terms of investing.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. And once again, um, he, he mentioned, uh, something about me not attributing my newfound success with, you know, my, my internet fame, but I literally acknowledged that when we were talking about it.

• 1:51:06Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, you did mention that.

• 1:51:07Speaker 02

  Exactly. So it's just someone, it's another situation where like, if you actually listen to me in like a long form, uh, setting, I, I usually clarify all my, my points, uh, extremely well. It's just like, things will get clipped. That's the nature of short form redistribution. So, uh, I would say we probably don't disagree on much, me and, me and that guy.

• 1:51:30Graham Stephan?

  What went wrong in the Channel 5 interview with Andrew Callahan?

• 1:51:33Speaker 05

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• 1:52:03Speaker 00

  The wheel had roads. Electricity had the grid. Innovation needs infrastructure. Plaid makes AI work in finance. Visit plaid.com slash AI to learn more.

• 1:52:18Speaker 02

  It wasn't him I was necessarily calling out, but I was more so calling out the fact that no one actually asked me questions about looks maxing, um, you know, or, or any specifics based on that. I think he was just asking like random political questions. And I was like, you know, dude, why are you not asking me about what, what all my content is about? Looks maxing.

• 1:52:44Graham Stephan?

  What's something that we could have done better?

• 1:52:46Speaker 02

  I don't think that, um, there's anything wrong. I think this interview was great. You got, you were asking about, uh, whether, how I weigh looks versus, uh, status and what's more important, like, you know, and the hypotheticals that you gave. So I think everything was, was spot on.

• 1:53:02Graham Stephan?

  It's about to get worse though, because we have other questions. What caused you to pass out at the club?

• 1:53:07Speaker 02

  Oh, just from, just drinking too much on an empty stomach.

• 1:53:10Graham Stephan?

  So, oh wow. So it was just a miscalculation?

• 1:53:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, just what, like the, the people watching, like have never had too much to drink, like in, in college and, you know, blacked out a little bit, like it happens.

• 1:53:22Graham Stephan?

  It seems like they were worried about you. Like you were unresponsive for a second. He's like, yo, cut. Yeah, that didn't seem like alcohol to me, but I could be wrong.

• 1:53:28Speaker 02

  No, no, it was. I mean, I'm just not someone who frequently consumes alcohol. So my, uh, you know, my tolerance is not the strongest. That was when I kind of like started drinking again after not consuming alcohol for like six months. But yeah, that's like what everyone put in the media was that it was an, and it's like, yeah, technically, but that makes it seem like it was-

• 1:53:48Graham Stephan?

  Like pills or something.

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, right. And it was like drug oriented when, yeah, technically it is an, but it's alcohol. It's, it's a little different.

• 1:53:57Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. So you got slapped and then pressed charges. What was the conclusion of that?

• 1:54:01Speaker 02

  Um, that's what got me, uh, like not allowed back into that club is because I pressed charges in my age. My, yeah. So they knew how old I was. So I-

• 1:54:11Graham Stephan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:54:12Speaker 02

  I kind of that up, but-

• 1:54:14Graham Stephan?

  You didn't end up actually succeeding in pressing charges?

• 1:54:16Speaker 02

  No, I did. I did.

• 1:54:17Graham Stephan?

  What happened?

• 1:54:17Speaker 02

  I'm not sure, you know, I, I just know I, I pressed like misdemeanor, I think battery is what it was.

• 1:54:25Graham Stephan?

  She's in jail for 35 years now.

• 1:54:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, I'm sure, I'm sure she's, uh, she's perfectly fine. But regardless, that clip goes viral. It's so funny. Like every, like a couple of months, it'll just pop back up on the timeline.

• 1:54:37Graham Stephan?

  Okay. We need a yes or no answer. Did you get frame mugged by the ASU frat leader?

• 1:54:42Speaker 02

  That's what people say. That's so funny that that still, uh, the question still comes up. That went like so viral. Um, and that was like earlier into my career. So I think that helped with a lot of reality. Cause that was what, like February?

• 1:54:54Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:55Speaker 02

  So, yeah, it's, it's-

• 1:54:56Graham Stephan?

  So you did?

• 1:54:57Speaker 02

  I don't know. That's, I'll leave that up to-

• 1:54:59Graham Stephan?

  What do you think?

• 1:55:01Speaker 02

  I don't really think about it too much.

• 1:55:03Graham Stephan?

  But if you were to, you know, do you think you frame mugged him?

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  I don't know. Um, you know, my, my whole thing is I've never really claimed to be like the best looking person. That's not my thing. Like, oh, like I'm the ultimate looks maxed. It's like, I'm just super knowledgeable in the field and I give advice.

• 1:55:21Graham Stephan?

  Do you see him at all?

• 1:55:23Speaker 02

  Never.

• 1:55:23Graham Stephan?

  You talk to him at all? His number's blocked.

• 1:55:26Speaker 02

  I, no, I don't know.

• 1:55:27Graham Stephan?

  There's no way they're talking.

• 1:55:29Speaker 02

  He's banned from all platforms. No, that'll, uh, yeah, that'll usually happen. Like, you know, there will just be like a random, uh, characters on my stream.

• 1:55:38Graham Stephan?

  When is the last time you were embarrassed?

• 1:55:41Speaker 02

  Never.

• 1:55:42Jack Selby?

  See, that's the thing I see. It's like you seem to be very emotionally neutral.

• 1:55:47Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yeah. So like all these different things, like me getting rejected, like, you know, the clips that make me look silly, I get pretty happy about it. I'm like, oh, this is great. Just like more viral, more views.

• 1:55:59Jack Selby?

  Do you wish that you felt emotions more deeply?

• 1:56:02Speaker 02

  No. Local is all is the move. So I'm just, uh, you know, if I let all these little things affect me, like, you know, what people say on the internet, then, um, you know, I, I would be just in my head all the time when I was streaming and just.

• 1:56:17Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. I like the fact you're not reactionary. I think that's really important. It seems that you hold composure extremely well regardless of what's going on around you.

• 1:56:28Speaker 02

  You have to, you know, or else you're going to be impulsive and do stupid.

• 1:56:32Graham Stephan?

  Is that just you or is that just practice?

• 1:56:34Speaker 02

  Uh, that's just me.

• 1:56:35Jack Selby?

  Okay. So you've always been this way?

• 1:56:36Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:56:37Jack Selby?

  Do you think that it prevents you from experiencing, experiencing highs as much as you could?

• 1:56:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Usually people who are so low and hip and they just do impulsive shit all the time, they have like a lot of fun doing so. But, um, like being pretty emotionally flatlined allows you to be a lot more, uh, you know, successful and a lot more consistent, I would say. So I'm extremely consistent.

• 1:57:07Jack Selby?

  And then running over that guy in the car, did you feel bad or did you feel vindicated?

• 1:57:13Speaker 02

  No comment. No comment.

• 1:57:15Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. I don't think you could say how you feel because I'm sure it's still ongoing and.

• 1:57:19Jack Selby?

  Is there, is there litigation?

• 1:57:21Graham Stephan?

  There's no way that's over.

• 1:57:23Speaker 02

  I, I think it is. I think, um, he, the guy kind of like did up with a couple of statements made on the internet. So.

• 1:57:31Jack Selby?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:57:32Graham Stephan?

  In fairness, I never think you should get in front of a car with a person behind the driver's seat when the car can go.

• 1:57:39Jack Selby?

  Especially after saying things.

• 1:57:41Graham Stephan?

  I have to say that to me.

• 1:57:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:43Graham Stephan?

  Seems like common sense.

• 1:57:45Speaker 02

  Well, let's just say that thankfully we're in Florida, not the state of California, or else things would be very different. The state of Florida, um, and a lot of its, uh, you know, litigators, whatever legislators, excuse me, have said, you know, about these protests, if you get in front of someone's car and are, are blocking them, then run them over.

• 1:58:06Graham Stephan?

  I see some of these that really upset me. When there's a car trying to pass through, people surround the car. You could see the person inside freaking out and they accelerate and the people in front get off and, and then sometimes then they try to chase down the car and rip out the person.

• 1:58:23Speaker 02

  Once again.

• 1:58:24Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:24Speaker 02

  I'm not an impulsive guy. Uh, everything I do is calculated.

• 1:58:29Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:58:31Jack Selby?

  So this is a status tier list. And so this, it's based off of, you know, how much they can status mog, what they're able to achieve, looks, kind of the whole package. You know, maybe attraction to woman or from woman.

• 1:58:49Speaker 02

  That's a good. Okay. Uh, so SMB, I'm going to put first S tier, gotta be Ronaldo, um, easily.

• 1:58:58Jack Selby?

  And mind you, the closer you are to the, the letter, that's, that is also within the S tier. That's how it's ranked.

• 1:59:04Speaker 02

  Ah, okay. Um, Elon Musk, I want to put him, I'm actually going to put him at A tier. I would say, I would say Tate. Um, I'm going to put Tristan Tate, uh, at A tier. I'll also put Andrew Tate at A tier.

• 1:59:26Jack Selby?

  Between them, which one's closer to the letter?

• 1:59:29Speaker 02

  Um, I put Tristan. Um, let's see, we have Togi, uh, we have Timothy Chalamet. That's probably another, yeah, that's probably another A tier. Um, okay. Now moving on to B tier, I'm going to go with, uh, David Laid. I'm going to go with, um, oh wait, I forgot, I didn't, I just saw Messi on this list.

• 1:59:56Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, you could, you could.

• 1:59:57Speaker 02

  Put them back in the tier. Yeah. I'll put Messi right after Elon Musk here. So he's going to go in front of the, the Tates. Um, and right behind Elon Musk. All right. And then I'm going to put, uh, oh, Henry Cavill, also another S tier, right behind, uh, Ronaldo. Let's see, Mr. Beast, we'll put him B tier. Uh, that's hard. Yeah. We'll put him B tier. We'll do, uh, XQC, I think is also going to be pretty high up there. Or, or no, we'll go C tier, we'll put Hassan,

• 2:00:40Speaker 02

  we'll put Speed, Kai, uh, XQC.

• 2:00:48Graham Stephan?

  Well dude, when you're comparing to like Messi, I mean, Elon Musk, it's like.

• 2:00:52Jack Selby?

  No, I, I agree with you. I took this, I filled this out as well. I'll put my results, what I put this as after.

• 2:00:59Graham Stephan?

  I can't wait to see this.

• 2:01:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, hmm. Let's see. I'll put Neon in D tier. Um, Jesse James West, I'm going to put in, hmm, that's the, I would say D tier. I think just like with how famous some of these people are, like, you know, we're talking about Messi, you know, versus like.

• 2:01:28Jack Selby?

  It doesn't need to be linear. It could be.

• 2:01:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, okay. I'm going to put myself in probably D tier. Um, let's see. All right. We'll put.

• 2:01:51Speaker 02

  Bang.

• 2:01:54Speaker 02

  Okay. I don't know who these two, oh, wait, let me put Nick and then, hmm, I think we'll go, I think Nick, since just with like how controversial his politics are, might be a little lower, like C. And then who are these last two people?

• 2:02:18Graham Stephan?

  Me and Caleb Hammer.

• 2:02:20Jack Selby?

  You got Graham on the right and Caleb Hammer on the left.

• 2:02:24Speaker 02

  Okay. Um, that's probably how I.

• 2:02:30Graham Stephan?

  I hope I scored. Yes, I scored higher than Caleb Hammer.

• 2:02:32Jack Selby?

  I scored higher than Graham. That's crazy. Okay. So I put, wow, I can't believe you put Neon higher than you.

• 2:02:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:41Graham Stephan?

  Why is Neon higher than you?

• 2:02:42Jack Selby?

  Neon was the only.

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  Oh, wait, I did? Uh, maybe.

• 2:02:45Jack Selby?

  Yeah. Neon was the only, he was the only person I put lower than me.

• 2:02:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I might be.

• 2:02:50Jack Selby?

  I was second to last in my list.

• 2:02:51Graham Stephan?

  Why is Togi so much higher than Jack and I?

• 2:02:54Jack Selby?

  I think he is, dude. I mean, like.

• 2:02:56Graham Stephan?

  Is this because he's, he's jacked?

• 2:02:57Jack Selby?

  He's jacked. He's, he makes a lot of money. He's funny. He's charismatic. He's Jester Max.

• 2:03:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:03Jack Selby?

  Physique Max.

• 2:03:05Graham Stephan?

  More than Jesse James West, though?

• 2:03:07Jack Selby?

  I think so.

• 2:03:08Speaker 02

  I think so. Yeah.

• 2:03:10Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 2:03:11Speaker 02

  That's, yeah, that's my list.

• 2:03:12Graham Stephan?

  Caleb, Jack, we got, we got some work to do.

• 2:03:14Jack Selby?

  Awesome. I'm not last. I wasn't the last on my list. I'm second to last.

• 2:03:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, you know, like, I'm pretty, I'm pretty objective with it. Like, you know, I, I realize like my faults and I have no problem acknowledging it, you know, I've never claimed to be like the best looking, highest SMB, just a guy who could, you know, talk for hours about every single drug interaction in my body and, and all areas of looks mixing. You know, that's what I'm about.

• 2:03:42Graham Stephan?

  You know what? The other thing I will give you a lot of credit for, and Jack and I were talking about this, when he texted you, you texted Jack back immediately.

• 2:03:49Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I couldn't believe it.

• 2:03:50Graham Stephan?

  And you knew your schedule because it was so planned out that when Jack, that, that when Jack asked, when are you free? You said, this day, this time.

• 2:03:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, I finished another podcast right before this. I've just had a ridiculous amount of media the, the past like week or so, probably done like over 10, uh, different interviews.

• 2:04:14Jack Selby?

  Yeah, you're very calculated. I think people can tell, obviously, if they watch enough of your raw content as opposed to just the clips, that everything you do has a plan and it's calculated. And that, I think the only thing that I haven't quite understood yet, and maybe it's an age thing, maybe it isn't, is that you juxtapose this like very calculated, intelligent, you know, you could go on for hours about pharmacology and you mix that up with a lot of very risky irrational decisions that some people see you making on stream that could just be for entertainment purposes. It doesn't seem like.

• 2:04:47Speaker 02

  Typically.

• 2:04:47Jack Selby?

  You've actually experienced negative consequences of, you know, extending yourself too much. Right? So it's, it seems like even the chaos is a little bit controlled.

• 2:04:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, most certainly.

• 2:05:01Jack Selby?

  Which is good. Yeah.

• 2:05:02Graham Stephan?

  Yep. Thank you so much for giving us your time today.

• 2:05:05Jack Selby?

  Consult a medical professional. I do not get behind any of this, like, you know, like, you know, talk to doctors.

• 2:05:11Graham Stephan?

  Oh, I'm clueless.

• 2:05:12Jack Selby?

  Be smart.

• 2:05:14Speaker 02

  Whoa, whoa, I already said this.

• 2:05:15Jack Selby?

  Yeah, of course. He said this. We're not saying this as opposition to him, but we all agree. Talk to doctors. Do your best.

• 2:05:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:05:22Graham Stephan?

  Do, do your best.

• 2:05:23Jack Selby?

  Do your best. Thank you for, thank you so much for watching. Until next time.

• 2:05:26Graham Stephan?

  Oh, and also if you want to see the full length podcast without the cuts, feel free to join the memberships. You also get early access to the episodes as well. So really hope you enjoy. Thank you so much. Until next time.