Living Single: Then & Now with Kim Coles & Erika Alexander

Kim Coles and Erika Alexander sit down with Keke to get real about Living Single, from the moment their off-screen friendship clicked to the pressure of carrying a culture-defining hit. They open up about being underestimated, navigating early fame, and why that freedom shaped their careers. The trio reflects on revisiting the series through their ReLiving Single podcast and, of course, Kim and Erika can’t resist trying to play matchmaker for Keke. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Keke Palmer?

  Okay, y'all, when I tell you we've got royalty in the building today, sitcom legends Kim Coles and Erika Alexander. These are the women who raised us, made us laugh, and made us feel seen. You know them from "Living Single," and now they're dropping gems all over again with their podcast, "Reliving Single." Let's take it back to Brooklyn in the 90s. No social media, just appointment TV, baby.

• 0:58Keke Palmer?

  This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. 'Tis the holiday season, y'all. From spacious retreats in dream locations to their guests' favorite most-loved homes, perfect for family gatherings. Airbnb has amazing stays for every festive escape. Now, let's start the show.

• 1:19Keke Palmer?

  Hey, y'all! Hello, Kiki! Oh, my God, Kim Coles, Erica Alexander. I mean, I love y'all so bad. I was saying I gotta come on the podcast, "Reliving Single."

• 1:28Speaker 01

  We would love to have you. We're gonna have to have better snacks, because the snacks are wonderful.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  They really have the spread. And the lights, too?

• 1:34Keke Palmer?

  I'm so glad that they took pictures to show them.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I plan to take it to our crew and say, "Why?" What's up?

• 1:41Keke Palmer?

  I'm living, I'm living. I'm living for you guys being here. I'm excited, because you did the questionnaire. You know, we do this, we've been doing this "Baby, this is Keke Palmer" questionnaire, so I can see how you guys, what the vibe was y'all came in here with. So I'm gonna start with Kim first, the pre-show pull-up. "Today, I'm giving secretly chaotic joy and sleepiness."

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Yes, welcome, welcome. Welcome to menopause, you all get that.

• 2:01Keke Palmer?

  Well, I was just about to ask, sleepiness, is it because you actually didn't get any sleep? A lot on the mind?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Uh, menopause. And I've been forgetting to do my estrogen thing. Like, a couple of days in a row, I didn't rub my estrogen gel, and like, then I woke up in a pool of sweat.

• 2:13Keke Palmer?

  Wait a minute, so there's a thing called estrogen gel?

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Oh, y'all, there's estrogen.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  You don't put it in your vagina?

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Oh, you can.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Okay, but you can put it in.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  You can, but you chose the gel.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  You can, I do both. Uh, my boyfriend's younger than I am. So there's an estrogen gel.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  It helps along.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Estrogen, actually a pellet for insertion. There's a gel that you can put on your thigh. There's also, they can also put pellets in your booty.

• 2:34Keke Palmer?

  So what's the difference? Cause I'll be honest, I had to go to the doctors.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Who's putting pellets in my butt?

• 2:38Speaker 01

  It's at the top of your, the top of your, the high parts. It's like a little pellet. Pellet that, that slow releases into your system. I've tried it all. There's a patch.

• 2:47Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, cause I heard about the estrogen.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  You're gonna frighten her.

• 2:50Keke Palmer?

  No, no, this is actually good information. Somebody told me, like, you wanna actually cha-check all of that stuff before the menopause and things start.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Before pering, yeah.

• 2:58Keke Palmer?

  So you know where your levels are, so you know what you need to get back to, so you can feel like yourself.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  That's actually very true, Kiki.

• 3:03Keke Palmer?

  So I'm actually, I think it's important that we had this conversation because I also have a lot of testosterone. I was, yeah, yeah.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:09Keke Palmer?

  I found that out. I found that out and I thought it was just, I knew based off character. You know what I mean? But like, when I went to the doctors, they told me, I said, hormonally, I'm really just that.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  You know what that's called? That's you a woman king.

• 3:19Keke Palmer?

  I'm a woman king. I mean, the beard, I got the beard to show.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  Well, no, it's leadership. There's a lot of things that are built into that DNA that are very real, so, you know, yeah.

• 3:27Keke Palmer?

  It is what it is. So, okay, I love it. We're getting too chaotic, a little bit of sleep in this. Shout out to menopause. Today's mood, in one word, grateful.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:35Keke Palmer?

  We love a gracious queen.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Indeed, indeed.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 3:38Keke Palmer?

  What did you listen to on the ride here? Now, this gives me life because this girl is one of my favorites. "All Right" by Victoria Monáe.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 3:44Keke Palmer?

  All right, uh. She is so good, I love her. We had her on the podcast.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  I got tase, good.

• 3:50Keke Palmer?

  You got tase. One thing that instantly makes you laugh, first of all, you're so childish and you're just like me, farting.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Farting.

• 3:57Keke Palmer?

  Always.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  It's hysterical. Has been from the beginning to this day.

• 4:01Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, it is.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  The only people laughing are the people who are farting. Not the people who are smelling. The one who smelt it, dealt it, it's not cool.

• 4:07Keke Palmer?

  I'm always the dealt it.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  This is because I grew up in, I grew up in a household with a mother who thought farting was delightful and funny and a father who thought it was the most disgusting thing. So I have this warped sense of farting. Oh, don't do it, but do it. But don't do it, but do it. So, yeah.

• 4:20Keke Palmer?

  Yes, I'm here for the person to do it on set all the time. And by the way, release your bowels. You have to release your bowels.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  You do.

• 4:26Keke Palmer?

  It's not good to hold it in.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  And I also give other people freedom to do so. Fart, be free, release.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  She's very impressionable. You are just now, just, you know, reinforcing things that obviously are there.

• 4:36Keke Palmer?

  Anyone that knows me is gonna be like, yeah, Kiki.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:39Keke Palmer?

  And then I was excited to find out that your Capricorn. Yeah. Um, that's my perfect match. And then also, your rising is a Sag, my moon is a Sag. And then your, your moon is.

• 4:51Keke Palmer?

  That's what chills me out and gives me the spiritual grounded vibes. I love that. I love that you're into it. It feels very on brand that you're into the signs. Good, oh good, thank you, thank you. Very on brand. Yes. Okay, now let's get into you, Erika.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:03Keke Palmer?

  So, today I'm giving grateful.

• 5:07Keke Palmer?

  With the side of love. I'm here for that. The love is in the air.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Love is all.

• 5:13Keke Palmer?

  Today's mood in one word, ooh, this is really good. And I feel like we all feel like this. Sad, grateful, and then this is dis- what does it say?

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Disbelief.

• 5:23Keke Palmer?

  Disbelief. Why are you sad? Yeah, yeah, because of the state, right? No, no, ask it.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Because of Malcolm.

• 5:32Keke Palmer?

  We were just, rest in peace, Malcolm Jamal Warner. I was devastated. I just was talking about that before you guys came in.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Turning into, somebody sent me a text, and I looked and it said Malcolm, and I, I said, oh God, I don't even want to open it up. And there's, I'm sorry.

• 5:48Keke Palmer?

  We just found out, and I actually said to my beloved, like, let's not tell Erika until we leave. Because you guys probably know him. Yeah.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Well, I worked with him on The Cosby Show. I was Cousin Pam. You know, it's funny, because he was playing older than me, and he is younger than me by a year. So all of those things were being negotiated, because Cousin Pam was younger than Malcolm. So when I see him, I see him as somebody who, you know, you, you, I'm acting my age. But then he was also a bear, and he was smart, and he was good. When I say that we've lost a light.

• 6:19Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  That brother was good. So I'm just trying to just stay into love and grateful disbelief, but also to say that we are here. And, um, it's.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  It's surreal.

• 6:33Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, it is.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  To be in this space, doing this, and thanking this great iconic young man who grew up

• 6:40Keke Palmer?

  Yep.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  in the business.

• 6:41Keke Palmer?

  Yep.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  And is now gone.

• 6:44Keke Palmer?

  I think it's important to say, important to bring up, and just to pay respect to that, because it's like, you know, he is an icon. He's somebody that really, we all grew up with. Amazing representation. And I wish we could get some of those moments back to watch him on the show. I mean, I know, we know what happened with the show being removed, but I do hate that we don't get to see those lights.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  That is.

• 7:03Keke Palmer?

  You know, that we never have those moments again. So, rest in peace to Malcolm Jamal Warner. I hate that we lost him.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:09Keke Palmer?

  But what a blessing you got to work with him.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 7:11Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, know him.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  And today, and all of this year, I think should be seen as talking about the things that we don't talk about, but also rescuing the people who don't need to be caught up in those things. You know what I mean?

• 7:24Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  And celebrating their work.

• 7:26Keke Palmer?

  And celebrating them without dampening it with things that they had nothing to do with.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 7:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. I totally know what you're getting at, what you're saying.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  That's the truth.

• 7:34Keke Palmer?

  Okay, let's go to one thing that instantly makes you laugh. That's a great way to come back into getting the laughter. Puppies. Now, what is the puppies doing that's so comical?

• 7:43Speaker 02

  This, you know, online, I was just thinking of Instagram. Instagram has the funniest puppy thing, so I actually didn't know what to say after I'd put that. Oh, puppies! Puppies and kids. I don't know. Hashtag puppies.

• 7:55Keke Palmer?

  Puppies are so funny.

• 7:57Speaker 02

  I should have said farting. And then I would have, you know what I mean? Well, I know, I should have said, I don't know, I love to smell farts. That makes me laugh. I love to smell farts. So, we really get along.

• 8:07Keke Palmer?

  You guys are so funny. And then, obviously, last screenshot on your phone. No deleting. Your phone's right beside you, so go ahead, be real.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  I didn't know that that was a thing, but okay. All right, here we go. Screenshot.

• 8:19Keke Palmer?

  Y'all are funny as hell.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  That's you.

• 8:23Keke Palmer?

  That's you?

• 8:23Speaker 02

  That was me.

• 8:24Keke Palmer?

  Aww.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  I was wanting to show the, our producers, the lighting. So, we did get better lighting. So, I was like, I'm getting a shot of this. Get shots of this. My God, no wonder she looks like a million bucks. Right!

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Look at this shot.

• 8:36Keke Palmer?

  But let's be clear, lighting is everything.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  It's everything.

• 8:39Keke Palmer?

  Lighting is 1,000% the difference between you looking like a million bucks and looking like 50 cents.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Looking, yeah.

• 8:45Keke Palmer?

  It's literally 50 cents.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Quasimodo.

• 8:46Keke Palmer?

  She said literally 50 cents.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  And she's backlit and uplit and overlit. I love it.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  We have the hag lighting.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Literally. Like, you know?

• 8:55Keke Palmer?

  This is what you really look like.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  This is what you really look like. I have great lighting at home. Yes, yeah.

• 9:02Keke Palmer?

  Okay, well, like I said, I'm so excited. Thank you guys for answering the questionnaire.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 9:07Keke Palmer?

  I'm so excited to have you guys on the show. At Essence Fest, I gotta ask how it was for you guys being there. And obviously, every 10 years, there's a resurgence of people loving Living Single. You guys being reminded of the fact that it's impacted not just your generation, but the continuously generations after. So how did it feel there at Essence Fest to see all that? Mamas, daughters, kids?

• 9:28Speaker 01

  It's always beautiful there to me. And to see all the shapes and sizes of all of us and all the delicious blackness of all of us and every tone and shade and hair, the hair, oh, the hair, oh, the hair. So I loved it. I've been there several times, but to go there with Erika and to have a moment on the main stage, specifically to talk about what we're creating with Reliving Single, Reliving Single Podcast, was delicious. And Erika keeps saying, and the people stayed. Like, they came and they sat down and they stayed. And there's a lot of competition at Essence Fest. There's a lot going on. There's music going on there. People giving out samples and all the things. But they came and they stayed and they listened and it was delightful.

• 10:10Keke Palmer?

  Oh, how was the experience for you?

• 10:12Speaker 02

  Essence is a legacy project

• 10:15Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  that has been passed from each generation. And it's also, you know, in transition from itself because it's competing not only with, you know, all the different players, but also the different channels, the internet and all those things. But we can come together in person and actually have a silent conversation and a vibe and sort of know that you're talking to all your people. You don't have to explain yourself.

• 10:39Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  Where else can black women do that? You tell me. En masse. Now, I know Mary J. Blige has something. You're creating a whole world.

• 10:47Keke Palmer?

  But you're just talking about the legacy of what Essence always was and how it's continuing to try to maintain that.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 10:52Keke Palmer?

  And in one of the only ways that we really meet I R L. Most of the things are digital, you know, it's we don't get it.

• 10:58Speaker 02

  What's I R L?

• 10:58Speaker 01

  In real life.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Okay, thank you.

• 11:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I went digital with my dialogue.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  We went digital with our dialogue.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  If I'm gonna meet some kind of shows later.

• 11:06Keke Palmer?

  I should've said in real life, it wasn't hard to say. I don't know why I didn't do that.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you know what? That's what you created, though. With, you know, with Kiki World, the Key World, that's, that's real. But you're, but that's, to me, each generation creates that, but getting in person is, is it. Because that's when we can sort of, you know, breathe and do our thing.

• 11:24Keke Palmer?

  I couldn't agree more.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  I was really very proud that we had something to actually show them that they knew. Now, this is 30 years, 30 years that people have been growing up. And then also to connect and sort of say, this is for you, but also we're doing it for ourselves. We have to lay down a template, a blueprint.

• 11:40Keke Palmer?

  Yes!

• 11:40Speaker 02

  To show people what we've gone through, but also to create a new narrative. I know you're into narratives.

• 11:45Keke Palmer?

  You know!

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Otherwise, you get hijacked.

• 11:47Keke Palmer?

  You do.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  So that's what Essence is about, is always trying to find a way to create narratives. But Black women often don't have platforms for it.

• 11:54Keke Palmer?

  And I love what you said about this when we were talking about the Releven podcast is, yeah, like, what is the narrative? Us learning the stories behind the stories, the moment, the time, and the era. And for the people that were a part of it, I mean, you guys are best friends, you're best friends on the show, but you're best friends in real life. When did it become like that realization that, oh, no, we sisters for real? Was it during the show? Was it after the show was already off the air? When did y'all realize that it was like, yo, we family?

• 12:18Speaker 01

  I always say that I fell in love with Erika right away. And I thought that she was outspoken and, and sort of, you know, unusual and, and walked, talked, walked and talked and, and was different than other girlfriends I had had. Um, and so I immediately was like, ooh, she gonna be my friend on the show. I just, I just liked it, you know, it was an instant thing, it was an instant thing. I don't think she felt that same way about me. I love, you know, I love to tell the story, I love to tell the story that we were, we were a couple of weeks in. There's nine years difference, you know, Erika's nine years younger than me. So this is a young woman giving me the what for.

• 12:52Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  I'd been, I'd been.

• 12:54Keke Palmer?

  This lies trash and garbage, but go ahead.

• 13:03Keke Palmer?

  Ah, I just had the most incredible time in Chicago and I cannot stop thinking about it. I just hosted my debut Airbnb original experience and honey, it was absolutely everything. Let me set the scene. One amazing Chicago kitchen, me and my pops bringing the energy, the coolest people ever, and a local chef who was straight fire. Okay, we weren't just cooking, we were creating magic, making memories and filling that space with so much laughter and love. This wasn't your average cooking class, okay? We walked in as strangers with recipes and walked out as friends with stories. Dad had the whole room dying with his play-by-play commentary and watching cooking newbies

• 13:45Keke Palmer?

  turn into kitchen pros, absolutely priceless. The food was restaurant-level amazing, but what really got me was seeing confidence bloom and watching instant friendships form over every shared bite. Some of life's best adventures happen in the most intimate setting and you can find them through Airbnb experiences.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  I've been chatting about some things going on behind the scenes and about someone in particular and I remember the day we were walking across the lot and it was early on, it was maybe third or fourth episode and she stopped me and she said, "I'm gonna have to stop you here.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  I think we're gonna be working together a long time and I really like you, but I'm not a gossiper. I don't gossip and I won't, I cannot engage in the gossipage of it all and I like you. We're gonna be together and I just think that that is not the most healthy way for us to proceed in our friendship and in our working relationship."

• 14:41Keke Palmer?

  Oh my god!

• 14:41Speaker 01

  And I was like, "Oh god, who's this 23-year-old girl telling me what?" And she was right and then two weeks later, we went back to gossiping.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  It's a true story, you know it, but she let me know and that I could trust this younger woman to say to me, "Hey, wait a minute, we're going down a road that's not gonna be real cool, so let's check it." And we checked it, we checked it out.

• 15:00Keke Palmer?

  We checked it out!

• 15:02Speaker 01

  But so I guess you just wanted, we just did a show on gossip, one of our episodes was about gossip and I think gossip is really, I just, I wasn't, I was just, I needed to have a way to vent. And go like, I'm seeing this, are you seeing this too? What, because I respected you, so.

• 15:16Keke Palmer?

  And also I love.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Downhill ever since, but anyway.

• 15:18Keke Palmer?

  I love what you said about gossiping though, because I, I do like to gossip and I think that, you know.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  You're just checking in.

• 15:23Keke Palmer?

  I feel like just say, hey, we clocking the same tea? And just get it, now, I don't want no, let's not be messy with it.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  No, I didn't share with anybody.

• 15:30Keke Palmer?

  Let's not mess nobody life up, let's not go making it seem.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  And it weren't rumors or lies.

• 15:33Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Well, you just said rumors, lies and trash, it was just, it was, it was just like, I'm seeing this and this don't seem right and what do you think?

• 15:39Keke Palmer?

  And so who was it about?

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Lies, trash and garbage.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  That I was lies, trash and garbage, okay.

• 15:42Keke Palmer?

  And so who was it about?

• 15:44Speaker 01

  I won't, I will never tell, I will never tell.

• 15:46Speaker 02

  And I can't even remember, you know what?

• 15:47Speaker 01

  I do.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  The thing is that she's, as you see, a force of nature. We're next to the hurricane here, so.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  Everybody's bringing their own local weather, I'm just trying to stay steady.

• 15:57Keke Palmer?

  Their own local weather and everything.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  Between these two freaking people.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  You are the tornado, darling.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  I have no idea, but you know, I used to, you know what, I, I, okay, not right away, because she can be intimidating. That kind of energy can be intimidating.

• 16:09Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  And so I would come to the set and kind of look and see if she was there already? And then go, oh, she's there, let me come back, you know?

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Really?

• 16:16Speaker 02

  No, I'm lying.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Okay, to today, no.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  I'm lying, but you know, I had to come in with strong with something.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Okay, right.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  No, you know, no, here's the thing.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  You told me that you saw me at Macy's one time before we worked together? And you said hello to me and I was, hello, how are you?

• 16:27Keke Palmer?

  So how, that is a good question, how familiar were you guys with one another's work before working with each other on the show?

• 16:32Speaker 02

  Well, she was on In Living Color.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Right, and done stand up.

• 16:35Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  But I hadn't seen the stand up, because, you know, at the time it wasn't, but, uh, In Living Color was the biggest thing on.

• 16:40Keke Palmer?

  Incredible character work.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 16:42Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, your impressions.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I'd been Cousin Pam, most people hadn't seen what I was doing, because I've been doing a lot of drama. I'd done, you know, plays off Broadway.

• 16:49Keke Palmer?

  I was gonna say, you were doing a lot of stage work too.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  A lot of stage work.

• 16:51Keke Palmer?

  We did some stage work together.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  You did?

• 16:53Keke Palmer?

  We did.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  We played my mommy and daughter.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Are you kidding?

• 16:57Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:58Keke Palmer?

  Yep, that was the first time we met, I think, unless it was at award shows or something. Yeah, yeah, but that was, yeah, we did, we did stage together, yeah.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  I love that, I love that, I love that.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  But you know, um, I admire Kim, uh, very much, but what I found out about her, that I didn't know, was that the thing that she's doing, that's the, she's the great connector. So in a way, you talk about, you know, gossip and that type of stuff. The way she plays it is as a sort of ammunition to bring people together, to make them feel comfortable, to give them immediate permission to speak to each other. We're all laughing. And so she's really great about it. That's her real gift.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 17:32Keke Palmer?

  And that is definitely a gift. Going back to that first day, I mean, I don't know how you guys got your roles, if it was auditions, if it was offers, but you get there on that first day of set, you find out before you come who's all gonna be there. Was it a table read? Well, you know, when did you all get together for the first time and start realizing, okay, we're making a show? And what did you just think about it at? Like, going back to that time?

• 17:53Speaker 02

  The table read.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  It was a table read.

• 17:55Keke Palmer?

  It was a table read.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  It was.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  The show, Latifah and I each had deals. They create the show around the two of us. Yvette Lee Bowser was brought in to be the creator. John, Erika, TC auditioned and got the show. Kim was also chosen, you know, it was...

• 18:12Speaker 02

  By Yvette?

• 18:13Speaker 01

  She had a conversation with Yvette, was brought in. So the first time we all meet is at the table read. I always say I knew immediately that this felt like, it felt good. It felt great. Partially because, for me, In Living Color didn't feel good. In Living Color, sketch comedy shows are notorious for being highly competitive, highly pressurized experiences. And I wasn't used to being in a competitive environment like that.

• 18:39Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  This felt collaborative and cooperative, and this felt like home to me immediately.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  But that was PTSD. You know what I mean? Anything feel better than that?

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Well, you know, that's life, though. Contrast.

• 18:52Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  You've come to really love...

• 18:53Keke Palmer?

  It's just so interesting when you say that about, because I did SNL, I just hosted.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  You did, you did.

• 18:59Keke Palmer?

  They would say the same thing.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  There's stories of, there's horror stories of...

• 19:04Keke Palmer?

  Sketch with that, yeah. And my thing is, it seems so counterproductive because how do you create such great material in that environment? But yet somehow, people do, and people did.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have genius, these genius, like Lorne Michaels, I think, created a, a, a, a, it's just a, what you do is you shake it up and you, you know, you, you make people really work for it.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  Is that what happened? Cause you can tell us.

• 19:28Keke Palmer?

  Well, she actually said it exactly right. With Lorne, he's very much like, no, no, no, go back to the drawing board. This is what, he doesn't necessarily overly, um, influence the artist's creativity. And I think that's probably purposeful. Like, you had a voice. Tell me what your voice is. But he's gonna challenge it and he's gonna ask you why. He's gonna continue to push until it makes sense to him. If it doesn't work, then he's gonna be like, you need to go back to it.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  But that's actually what a great leader does. Like, well, what else you got? How can we make that better?

• 19:54Keke Palmer?

  Cause you still gotta let them have their voice.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:56Keke Palmer?

  Otherwise, you don't get anything new, no, no, no interesting material.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 19:59Keke Palmer?

  What did you feel like you took from that experience that helped you with, uh, living single?

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Appreciation of, of others' talents. You know, I'm a stand-up comedian. And stand-up is a very singular sport. And although I had a, a, a tribe of other comics that we all, you know, performed together, you're still onstage by yourself. I grew to appreciate watching others develop. Like, watching Jim Carrey create was magnificent.

• 20:26Keke Palmer?

  What type of duo was he?

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Watching Tommy Davidson create.

• 20:28Keke Palmer?

  Tommy Davidson.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Sweethearts, kind. Jim would, Jim was, uh, quiet and genius at the same time. You just watch him take something and go, I'm, okay, I'm gonna fold my body in half now. Like, what?

• 20:41Keke Palmer?

  Why was that the choice?

• 20:42Speaker 01

  Right, right. And it was the perfect choice. Tommy Davidson, watching each person.

• 20:46Keke Palmer?

  Tommy Davidson's so incredible.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  So I spent a lot of time observing others and what their process was.

• 20:51Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  And that was valuable.

• 20:52Keke Palmer?

  I love that. Especially with an ensemble, you know, another version of an ensemble cast. So you come in and you had just been doing, stayed a lot, a lot of drama. Um, what was it like for you coming to show? Was there nerves? Were there excitement? Maybe both.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  No nerves. No nerves. I'd been on the biggest show in the world, Cosby Show.

• 21:07Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  That's nervous.

• 21:11Keke Palmer?

  We were nothing.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  You know, there's the big pyramid in Egypt, and then there's the small side pyramids. I was in the side of my, I, once you go in the big house, you ain't worried about, you ain't worried about the guest house. I mean, really, you're not. I mean, but you know, she's right about something about ensembles. What I'd learned at Cosby Show was that there were two different types of performance happening, and you had to do it simultaneously.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  There was, okay, maybe three. There was the one that was happening on stage with the ensemble, that you say, "It's not a monologue, it's a dialogue." There's a conversation going on. You have to be open to it. You have to have everybody feel balanced. You throw them something, you let them throw it to you. You can't just step on their thing, because then everybody feels pressured. So there's that, and then there's the audience who's gonna come in, and they're gonna add them. That's, they're another character in it. But there's these cameras. If they don't catch it, then it ain't on stage.

• 22:03Keke Palmer?

  It didn't happen.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. So you have to be aware that they're popping in, in the back, and the director's doing their thing.

• 22:10Keke Palmer?

  That's being a gracious actor. I really do feel that, which everybody's not.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  But also aware, and also, um, all your senses are heightened. But I didn't understand that on the Cosby Show. I kept asking Mr. Cosby, and Ellen Falcone, she was our director.

• 22:24Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Said, "Who do I act for? The cameras, or the, uh, the audience?"

• 22:28Keke Palmer?

  And that's interesting that you ask that, because you were, you had done stage, you had been already doing stage.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  I'd done both.

• 22:32Keke Palmer?

  You'd done stage and TV, and then, I mean, what I love about multi-canned sitcoms is both.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  It's both.

• 22:37Keke Palmer?

  It's all happening at the same time.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  It's both.

• 22:39Keke Palmer?

  But you were kind of conflicted in a little bit of a way.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  But guess what Cosby said? He said, "Well, the audience," because you know he's stand-up too. And that's where he's taking his cues. Ellen said, "The cameras. Make sure that they're watching it." I realized they were both right. By the time I got, by the time I got there, I was like, "It's both." But also, you have to just stay in the moment, and you have to manage your, the discipline to, to, to wait, but to also be, be ready, is what stage gives you. And you're not acting for the cameras and waiting for them. You're not in-between chilling. You're always on.

• 23:12Keke Palmer?

  Ellen would say, "Stay in the play, stay in the play." And the comedy is so, so you worked with Ellen too? Yeah, well, Ellen was our.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  She did most of our episodes.

• 23:19Keke Palmer?

  Wow. So, um, just to that point where you were saying, you know, we're talking about comedy, we're talking about stand-up, we're talking about sketch, but we're also talking about your style of comedy. What did you learn up until the point of going into Living Single, which obviously you're so hilarious on there, about your style of comedy, which is so grounded?

• 23:37Speaker 02

  That I was funny. I always thought I was funny. But I wasn't getting that feedback in performance at all. Because I'd been doing drama. And I was more of a cut up than people knew. But it's just that I wasn't being cast in those roles. I was Cousin Pam. When I got there, they wanted me to set the table. And suddenly, you know, start talking about, you know, condoms. And going, yes, okay, I'm gonna, oh, I'll make sure, you know, whatever. I don't even know what that's about. But then here, I'm with people who are my peers. First of all, I needed to be with people who are my peers. Because you can act and fool and cut up.

• 24:09Keke Palmer?

  It's totally different, yes. It's so fun.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  It is. There's a competitive nature between peers that's real. But also, if there's respect, then it's not, you're not, you know, trying to, you know.

• 24:20Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  It's a healthy competition. But more importantly, they weren't watching me. They were watching them. That's not true. It was true. You say that, that's not.

• 24:30Keke Palmer?

  Now, what do you mean, they weren't watching, the audience? Yeah, that's what I'm saying, who's them?

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Kim, Coles, and Latifah were being watched like hawks. They were not watching me. I was the dark horse in the room, literally. They were not watching me.

• 24:43Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, you're kidding.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  I'm not kidding.

• 24:44Keke Palmer?

  And so, and what do you mean by that? You mean, the audience is not watching you? The studio's not watching you? Or a little bit of both?

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Let me say who they is. The studio and the network.

• 24:52Keke Palmer?

  Cool. They don't watch nobody.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  No, and plus, I think that they were watching also to make sure, because, again, Latifah was new in that space. She had not done sitcom. I had, Kim Fields had. They weren't watching her. Kim Fields is a veteran, she's a prodigy.

• 25:08Keke Palmer?

  I mean, her mother, family, her sister, yeah.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  Let's say something a little bit about Kim Fields.

• 25:13Keke Palmer?

  We should.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  Because you're a prodigy. It's somebody who comes in, who naturally is gifted. Who has, you know, sort of been, like, the hand of God, destiny would have found you anyway. Biology is destiny, you have it on your face. But also, it's in your DNA. She was like that. And once she got the opportunity, she was in it. She didn't need minding. She just needed y'all to let her talk. You say, "Cook, do her thing."

• 25:37Keke Palmer?

  Let her cook.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  She'd been doing it forever. Now, there were people on the set that hadn't been doing it forever. So, they were watching you. I was, "God, I'm sorry, kid." They were. They were watching you and Latifah. And I didn't get notes like they got notes. I didn't get watched. I needed that space to develop who Max was. If people started telling me who she was, "I'm such a good girl." I might have done it like, "Okay, let me do this. Let me do that." I just need them to leave me alone. And then suddenly it would click in. But I already knew, but I had the haircut. And that haircut did a lot for me.

• 26:07Keke Palmer?

  That haircut's iconic.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  It is.

• 26:09Keke Palmer?

  I mean, it's iconic. I'm trying to do the look for a movie now. I literally sent them your reference.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Really?

• 26:14Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  That's Deborah Hair Bay?

• 26:15Keke Palmer?

  I want to hear.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Go to Deborah Hair Bay. She would love to see you.

• 26:19Keke Palmer?

  So, yeah, I mean, you, you know.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  Do it.

• 26:21Keke Palmer?

  But it's interesting.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Can I give a perspective and just? We've never talked about this before. You always say they were watching you, and I never understood what that meant. But here's what's interesting. They were watching you, and I want to tell you why they were watching you.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Because we're going through, on Reliving Single, the podcast, we're going through every episode from the beginning on through. And when you look at, you know, as you know, the A story and the B story, you got A stories immediately. You got heavy, not heavy, I don't mean heavy and difficult. I mean, you got really powerful moments and, what did you say?

• 26:56Keke Palmer?

  Prominence.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  And prominence. They were watching you because they knew that you could, you could bring it on. And so, I know you talk about being, you know, one of the last hired and

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Oh, I see what you're saying.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  You know, brown skin and living across the street. So, they were watching you because they knew that you could, like, you brought it on home. So, somebody knew that you were funny. Somebody knew that you were talented.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  I think they just knew I could handle it. Because I do, I do theater.

• 27:18Keke Palmer?

  There's also something interesting that I'm hearing that's being said here, too, is like, you guys had a lot of weight on your back. One of the first things you said was that the show was built on the back of you and Queen.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  But I said.

• 27:28Keke Palmer?

  So it's like, what did that feel like, knowing that if the show's not a hit, we might be blamed?

• 27:33Speaker 02

  That's a good question.

• 27:34Keke Palmer?

  Because they made the show for us.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  Right. I didn't think about it for an instant.

• 27:37Keke Palmer?

  Thank gosh.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Because once I saw this whole group of folks, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't concerned at all because I knew that we were each supported. You know, Latifah, she was new to, she had done a few sitcoms, I think she had done with Will Smith.

• 27:48Keke Palmer?

  But also there's this thing with us, with black folks, where it's like, okay, we're looking for you to do it, and if it ain't a hit, it's over with. So it can sometimes be this thing.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  So you know what's funny? Maybe my naivete, maybe I was just so grateful to be there, and so I'd had a couple of holding deals, and finally, this one had landed. I was like, uh, oh, right?

• 28:07Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  And so I was like, I saw who I was working with, I was like, oh, I'm, I'm, this is gonna be, I didn't think about it.

• 28:12Keke Palmer?

  Well, also you could just be somebody that had the foresight, that vision to know, this is it, this, this will not be failing, this is the perfect situation.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  I could lose the stuff we were using, come on now.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  But I also know that there was more watching of you than you know, just letting you know.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  There was.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  We can let it go, Kim.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  No, I don't want to let it go because we don't talk.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  No, but it's funny that you didn't feel it, you didn't certainly have a thing, but it was.

• 28:36Keke Palmer?

  But I think that's a strength that a lot of people should have, and I would like to hope and believe that things are changing in our industry, but we, you know, as a minority, as women, when we get these opportunities, they put all this money behind us, there is a lot of that going on, that you can't, you really do have to silence. You can't really think about it. It's like, my opportunity is my opportunity.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  I'm gonna show up and be excellent and do my best.

• 28:56Keke Palmer?

  No matter what happens. But the show, obviously, not only was a hit, but it's become one of the most iconic shows in culture. When did you guys realize the impact of the show? How soon from its airing did y'all realize, we got it? They ain't gonna let up, this is the [BLEEP].

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Because the folks will tell you, right? The, the, the folks on the street will tell you. The story I always tell of the, well, you know, we were told that we were a black show, and I know Erika has her, she'll explain to you.

• 29:26Keke Palmer?

  Her feelings about it.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Her feelings about the term "black show", but we were told that this was a specific audience, this was the demographic, these were the people. And when I was in. Bank of America on Santa Monica Boulevard in West Hollywood. And this little old Jewish man came and squeezed my arm. "I love you girls. I love that show. You girls are beautiful. You remind me of Brooklyn. I love all of you." And he kept squeezing me and I don't know if it was harassment, but I was taking it.

• 29:51Keke Palmer?

  I live for you remind me of Brooklyn.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  You tell the queen, "I love the queen. I love all you girls. You girls are beautiful. I love it." I knew that we were a hit because that wasn't the demographic at all. But he got it, he resonated, and he loved all the-

• 30:05Keke Palmer?

  But that's the thing when you play truth. And I always tell this to people, whether you are black, whether you are Latino, whether you are whatever people consider to not be mainstream. Everybody wants to see everybody's life.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:16Keke Palmer?

  You know, I want to watch something that I've never seen that doesn't mirror me. So why wouldn't somebody want to watch my world when it doesn't mirror them?

• 30:22Speaker 01

  And also look to see how they can find the resonance. Like, he resonated with it and it meant something to him.

• 30:28Keke Palmer?

  1,000%.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that's what segregation is about. It's about somebody saying in some room, who doesn't understand that creativity has no borders.

• 30:37Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  And that's why black people are the biggest culture makers in world history. Because we didn't colonize people in mind. They allowed us in. And that is the power of soft power. The vision that we put out there were from people who were enslaved. But if you look at what we put out there, it was a vision of the future. We're Afro-futurists. And we created America before it even existed. But we did it through the only means we have, which was the power of speech, the power of moral authority, but also creation, creativity, music, dance, all of that.

• 31:11Keke Palmer?

  But then so much of that also, which I'm sure we've felt, is the performance of survival. That sometimes ends up making you flamboyant. Like, my mom has this story about me when I was a kid. And I think it's like when I really realized that my form of survival would be performance. I was about to get a whooping, okay? And I was about to get a whooping. And my daddy was like, so what you- My mom and daddy standing looking over me, "So what you think need to happen to you?" And I said, "I guess I'm just had to get dealt with." Like, "Oh, boy," in Friday. And my parents started laughing. I said, "Who's [bleep] no whooping tonight." I guess, "Time to pull out the jokes, time to..." So anyway, in saying that-

• 31:52Keke Palmer?

  I guess I'm just gonna have to get. I got it to get dealt with.

• 31:56Keke Palmer?

  Are you laughing? Are we laughing? You know how we escaped? Am I safe now? Yeah, exactly. And so with that being so much of our culture does come from survival.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  We're resourceful if we're nothing else.

• 32:08Keke Palmer?

  We're resourceful if we're nothing else. But then it becomes a point where I'm sure as performers, we know it's like, hey, what is after that survival? And also, when you're representing an array of different black characters, what are we bringing? How are we bringing those nuances to the screen? Because people had not seen the kind of characters y'all play. Like, I'm telling you, your character, Kim, is so important because we don't get to be like that.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  The awkward black girl.

• 32:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, like, girl, that's now we have Issa Rae.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 32:33Keke Palmer?

  Now we have Quinta Brunson. Now we have these types of characters. But that was the first time we seen just like, oh, well, okay. It's like, we get to be that. We don't have to always, you know what I mean? And we get to see a woman saying, I don't really care about marriage. Well, man, who?

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 32:49Keke Palmer?

  I'm here to get this money. I'm here to be this boss. We didn't always see that. So, you know, what was it like for you guys from that beginning of your characters to knowing we have such a long journey ahead of us to bring all these stories to life? Like, how did you? How heavy was it for you to take it on? And then how much of it arrived to you through just experience and age?

• 33:09Speaker 02

  And the age is real.

• 33:11Keke Palmer?

  You know, because we learn more.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 33:13Keke Palmer?

  Changes how we approach it.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  It didn't feel heavy to me. And again, maybe that's just my way. I don't have, uh, other things have felt heavy. This has not.

• 33:21Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  And, and the weight of it didn't feel like weight. It felt like we're performing, we're showing, uh, these characters, we're showing something that has never been seen before. I don't think I ever felt the weight. Maybe, I felt the weight when there was a potential that we were going to be canceled and, and the audience was like, no, you can't go. And, you know, there was no social media, there was no campaign. You know, you had Tom Joyner telling people to write water.

• 33:47Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, love to do it. Tom Joyner, morning, it's your, it's your way.

• 33:52Keke Palmer?

  Don't take me back.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Right. And so I felt the weight of, of people wanting us not to go away.

• 33:59Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  But I don't think I have ever felt the weight of the pressure of, you know, how I have to be.

• 34:05Keke Palmer?

  Just the pressure of being a black performer. What are we gonna do?

• 34:07Speaker 02

  I feel the weight.

• 34:08Keke Palmer?

  I've felt it too.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  I feel the weight. Because you know what? So I was discovered in a basement theater called Freedom, New Freedom Theater in Philadelphia. And my mother sent me to a six-week program. And the fifth-week movie came to town. It was a Merchant Ivory film called My Little Girl. Now, they told us that they needed brown and black girls, and all of us wanted to audition because why not? And I ended up getting the role. Suddenly, I got a SAG card, I got health care, all that type of stuff. Now, here's, let's talk about weight. Up until that point, my story had been, I was one of six. I'm the child of two orphans. I spent the first 11 years of my life in a hotel called Starlight off of Route 66 in Arizona. In the mount, from the mountains of Arizona. And my father was an itinerant preacher, Kojic, and my mother was a teacher.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Pressure comes depending on how I think you grow up. If you get an opportunity like that, the last thing you want to do is drop the ball. You don't want to make people ashamed. You don't want to make the people who didn't get that role feel like, why did they choose her? And then, once that role went further, because the great Pat Golden, who was the casting director, called my mother and said, I think Erika can have a career. I, she needs a legitimate agent. And got me an agent. And that got me into other doors. Suddenly, you don't want to let them down because they told me, and my mother tells the story, she's here in the studio. She said, we don't take kids. She's a teenager. But the only kid we have is Michael J. Fox, but we're gonna take Erika. Now, that's a big deal. And suddenly.

• 35:36Keke Palmer?

  Not Michael.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  Everything is weighty.

• 35:38Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  Because you literally want to perform. You're in a room with.

• 35:43Keke Palmer?

  Survival.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  Jason Weaver's playing that. You're, everything was weighty. And by the way, it's the deep end all the time. It was never like.

• 35:49Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  Here's, work it out, learn. It was always the deep end. Cosby Show, first comedy. Royal Shakespeare Company, first tour. Um, you know, you're doing, uh.

• 36:00Keke Palmer?

  That's exactly how it was for me.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  That's pressure. Thank you.

• 36:02Keke Palmer?

  The same childhood, the same kind of thing, from a very small town, south suburbs, and not the kind of suburbs that you're looking forward to being in.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 36:10Keke Palmer?

  The kind that you could have been the city, but you just happened to be rural. Um, parents, my dad worked a factory job all my life. I remember we say, "Good morning daddy," at 3, 4 a.m. when he goes, he's going all day, coming back late at night, steel-toed shoes, car hard before it was fashion. Uh, my mom was a teacher, she was in and out of actually multiple jobs. That woman that's just trying to keep her dream alive and you're watching her and you're trying to reach her because she's trying to reach herself. And so, that's what it was for me. And then here I come, being this entertainer and saying, "Well, why can't we do the thing? Why can't we dream big? Why can't we follow the yellow big road?" Then we actually go, y'all actually, we actually drive four days and three nights to California. And now I've gotta make it happen.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Got to.

• 36:53Keke Palmer?

  I've got to make it happen. And when I tell you that I made it happen, but what you're doing...

• 37:00Keke Palmer?

  Baby, this is Keke Palmer. So, so much of it came from that saying, thinking it's so interesting how it's different.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  But I'm gonna say this, okay, I'm hearing you all talk, so my pressure, so I didn't have the pressure from the childhood stories, from the, the coming up stories. My, I had a trajectory, I started doing stand-up in 1985. Within three years, I was on national TV. Within another year, I was on In Living Color, right? So things, I had a trajectory that went...

• 37:33Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Right? My pressure, my difficult times, didn't happen until I was already famous, till I already had tons of money, till I already had all that. So my breakthrough or breakdown or that moment of like, oh, now I gotta, I have parents who are educated, but I dropped out of college four times. My father has his doctorate, my mother's also a teacher. So I felt that, my aunties are all educated, so I'm feeling like, who am I to have all of this money and success? And I haven't even finished my schooling and that's what matters to all of them. They're like, "Glad you're on TV." My father, until he passed away in 94, was like, "So are we gonna go back to college?" I'm like, "Daddy, I, I don't have time to go to college, I'm on a set all day."

• 38:11Keke Palmer?

  I'm a household name.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Right, right, a household name. Like, for him, he's like, "But are you gonna go back to school?" I remember I spoke at a college and he came, it was in North Carolina, and he came to visit me. He says, "You know, they would matriculate you, Kimberly." I'm like, "I, I matriculate?"

• 38:23Keke Palmer?

  Matriculate took me out already.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Matriculate, Kimberly, they would, I'm sure they would work a program with you. I'm like, "Yeah daddy." And so, you know, so that pressure was to become something that my parents wanted me to become. And so, and, and I've told the story before of shopping through all of my money because I didn't think I deserved it. So, my... You know, my, uh, that, that pressure didn't come until I'd already arrived and it was like, how do I maintain it? What do I do now when they're not calling? Uh, uh, what do you do when you don't look like the va va va voom girl? So, so, so I felt the pressure too, I just didn't feel it at that time on Living, uh, Living Single, I should say. It came at a different time and it's about maintaining. I remember seeing Diane Carroll spoke at the Essence, you know how the Essence Women of Hollywood?

• 39:07Keke Palmer?

  I love.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  Thing and this is many years ago and she stood on stage and they were honoring her and she was like, oh, the maintenance. Like you got, she said, oh, the maintenance. You gotta maintain all of this. Or then, you know, you look, so, so there's that pressure that I feel now. I didn't feel it at the ages that you all were.

• 39:26Keke Palmer?

  So what do you do with that, right? Like if we're going back to that time in that era of, of the, of Living Single, when it first came out and then who you were then and who you are now and how you looked at performance then and how you look at performance now? I want to know the difference because, you know, for me now it's 23 years or so and I'm at the cha, at the transitional point of how I feel about performance. I always will love performing, but it, it changes for us. Something happens.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  How's it changed for you is what I like to know.

• 39:52Keke Palmer?

  So, a bit of what I was saying is, my performance used to come from survival. It came from, not, not necessarily that it wasn't joy, but it was a, a joy in rebellion. It was, I'm gonna be happy in spite of, I'm gonna make this happen because I know I can. But now it's like, I'm good, you know, it's like, I don't have to, like, who am I saying that to? The conversation with the audience has changed, so it changes the way that I approach performance. I'm not telling it from the place of reb, joy for rebellion, I'm telling it from the place of joy as embodiment. So what does it look like? You know, and how do we move, how do, what, what changes in the narrative? Now I'm not talking about Keke Palmer is me, Keke Palmer's the product, it's the conversation that I built around something I was trying to say.

• 40:34Keke Palmer?

  And now I'm moving into showing you that I was the person behind it all, the whole time. And so it's, it's different. It changes. I still love it, but the conversation is different. And so I wanted to know from you guys, as I'm making that transition, um, for the first time, because obviously it happens multiple times.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 40:52Keke Palmer?

  Um, what does it, what did it look like for y'all when y'all started having that conversation?

• 40:56Speaker 02

  Um, so it does happen multiple times and you don't know when it's gonna happen or what shifts. It's inner attention shifts and it can be out of boredom, growth, necessity, I feel. And I need to...

• 41:12Speaker 02

  Do it is usually out of just, you know, you're dissatisfied. Mm-hmm. Um, with either performance, or maybe you think, if I shift, will, would I get those, those opportunities and that type of thing? So, I can tell you that, um, I didn't know how to perform or act. I just knew I did. Yes. And people will tell you you're good at it, and then they'll tell you you're great at, and then they'll tell you, and then I could feel their pressure to be like, oh, she's wonderful, this watch. And I actually didn't like that scrutiny, because I didn't think I did well with their pressure of like, she's gonna be great, because it didn't give me room to make mistakes.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  So, I knew I could no longer have their, their, um, expectations rule what happened when I got here. In fact, I would have to not ignore them, but I would have to dismiss the results altogether. So then I needed to go in and say, I could fail today, and I probably will, but I showed up and I'm prepared, and I must try something new. I have to wake myself up in the moment, and if I go up on my lines, it's okay. I will find them. If I feel suddenly like my heart be going, I said, I know that's adrenaline in your sphere, and you, and you can try to come back to yourself, but if I don't, they can't eat me. They can't. I will go home. They can't eat me. That consumption is so real. They can't eat me.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  And what I needed to know was that no matter what, that I would come home to the same pillow, whatever, and I'd be able to start again, even if I never came back to showbiz. And that was a powerful move, because up until that point, I had been performing from this whole thing where she is a child that can do this, and watch, she's a wonder kid. And I was like, no, I'm not. I'm a person who knows how to play the piano, and I'm good at it, but if I can't make my own mistakes on that damn piano, then it ain't my piano. It's yours, and I'm playing your music, so let me let it go, let me make my mistakes. I don't care if I don't cry today, it doesn't need to happen. I can do the truth of who I am in that moment and still get a beautiful scene out of it.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  But you know how long it came before I, I mean, I had diseases of stress. I had breakouts, I had all the crazy stuff that you had. I couldn't even sit one time, I was doing a, a mini-series. And they put a chair down, because I didn't, I couldn't stand my back. Yeah, it was crazy. It's stressful. It was stressful. But then, later on, I thought, okay, I'm doing better. And then I worked with an actor that I admired. And they did something on set that criticized me. No. And I had no idea that that person had, I'd given them that power, but I didn't know. And for years afterwards. The [bleep] that they do, you don't have to tell me the person if you don't want to, unless you want to. I don't want to tell the person, but what happened was. Will you tell us outside? Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, tell us outside, so that can you tell us the situation?

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Very quickly, it was a situation where I was on a set that was mostly men. That'll help you. And there was very few black people on it. That person and me. And there was a new scene that came in, and it's heavy players. And they wrote it for my character, probably because I'd be the one that would squawk the least. Now, at the time, I had a memory that was no joke, because we were just doing Living Single. And I looked at the page, thought I knew it, and said, let's do it. The director said, let's run through it before lunch. And me, instead of just reading it, like I should have, I tried to pop off with my memory to show people again, this is what. And I suddenly turned, and all these famous faces were looking at me, and I was cold. It's like I was a ghost.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  And I'd even have felt my heart's beating a thousand, because I didn't even know what that feeling was. And I, and he said, it's okay, darling, just read the page. You have plenty of time for lunch to learn it. And the person said, oh, we gonna be here all day. No. No. How dare you, sir. Let me tell you something. The only black people on that set, and this is the person I admire, and I, whatever, and so I get through it. I grab a P A. and I said, you need to go in my room, we need to run this. I run it, run it, run it, I come in, I got my game face on. That person is there, they're never there, because they called them last, always called them last. They're sitting there, and he knows, I've now given another piece, he knows what he's done.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  And he says, Erika, it's just, it's just a film, and they got a whole closet of it. I said, yes, and they will not be using that on me today. I sat down and I did it and I did it and I landed it. One take Alexander is what I'm gonna call you. Well, there were many cameras, so you know, whatever, but that was the problem. I had been known for doing one or two takes. But I didn't need to be known for that. I just needed to be known for satisfying myself in a scene.

• 45:56Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  You get these things. So here I am, I get through it, but then now I'm afraid of sets. I'm literally shaking and I'm afraid of my memory. My memory, I had no problem with memory.

• 46:07Keke Palmer?

  Well, because now you've ingested what everybody said about you and now that's projected you to believe that you're no longer who you think you are.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 46:15Keke Palmer?

  Because y'all said I was this and then now I had one human moment and now suddenly I'm not this and now my identity is changed.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  Well, because that wall was erected before that person showed up.

• 46:23Keke Palmer?

  They put this on you.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  Right. That person just pushed the last one over. I gotta tell you, it took me 10 years or more to feel comfortable on a set. And I still talk my way through it all the time. And that's why I live, I go there and I said, I must live in the moment. I must make my mistakes out loud and I will go home, but I will not let any one person have permission to do that to me again. Because I need to own myself. And if it happens, I'm gonna take them aside and say that I'm gonna have to do something. Because I didn't even know I had the power to. So it's a long way to go to say you can, you can be in the business and think that you've mastered it. You have not. Something else is gonna come and undermine it and just be prepared to know that you can shift, but you've got work to do.

• 47:08Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  I had work to do on myself.

• 47:10Keke Palmer?

  Same.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  Horrible. I don't remember the question, but uh.

• 47:14Keke Palmer?

  But it was like performance. What has shifted in your thing? You know, because we experienced so much.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  For performance or life or?

• 47:20Keke Palmer?

  I think for performance, your relationship to performance, why you started performing and then what it became for you. Um, because I think, I think the thing, the reason why I ask this is because like I said, I'm coming up against this, right? I'm 32 this year. I've been doing this for, since I was nine years old, but I've seen it, right? Like Eddie Murphy, he just started doing movies again after being, not doing them for 20 years. You know, Denzel didn't do movies for many years, you know? You see people that have been doing it for a long time, their relationship changes over time. And so I started to feel, okay, I'm having a shift. The first one was for necessity. I went from traditional to digital for necessity. And then now, now it's, it's, it's more just, I've matured into someone new. My child now, so I'm just curious for you.

• 48:04Keke Palmer?

  What has the conversation around performance been? Just I'm making y'all laugh on stage to what am I saying to y'all really?

• 48:10Speaker 01

  Right, um, I think after Living Single, I went into a depression. Number one, I wasn't with my friends every day. Number two, I wasn't getting that check every week.

• 48:22Keke Palmer?

  Girl, that hurts.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  Getting that free food all the time. I went into a shopaholic, you know, my vice was shopping. Some people smoke and drink and have sex, mine is shopping. I shopped it all away, part of it, the self-worth, not, I don't deserve having this. I'm just a girl from Brooklyn, I don't deserve any of this. I just watched, you know, Carol Burnett on TV and I was like, that's what I want to do. I didn't, I didn't go to school for it, I was, you know, I, you know. So that whole like coming to it and, and having trajectory quickly and feeling as if I hadn't fully prepared for it. It's not until you get in it and you're given the opportunities that a lot of times I was, um, it's all, you know, part, thing about the business is that even no matter how prepared you are, you're still learning on the job. There are things that they will never teach in a school.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  There's, you need a camera guy to go, sweetie, step, step, step here and turn your eye this way so I can get you. They're not teaching that, you learn that on the set.

• 49:15Keke Palmer?

  Absolutely not.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  So I'm open to constantly learning, constantly, um, uh, expanding. Robin Givens hired me to do, um, a film, which is hysterical because I did Robin Givens on In Living Color. And it was, you know, it's a sketch, it's not, it's not kind.

• 49:34Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  It's not kind, of course. And I remember saying, you know, doing, doing a bit about her on stage and her people contacted me and she said, I, I saw that and don't worry, I'm not mad at you, we're gonna work together one day. I was like, oh my God, Robin Givens saw. And she hired me to, I didn't have to audition, she said, you can do this. And it was a dramatic role, I was like, I can't do this. And on the set, she was there and saying, stop, because I would go to comedy, because that's my safe space. She was just, stop it, she got in my, she's this big, got in my face, stop that. You've got this in you, that's why I got you, I knew you got this, let's do this. I'm like, okay, Robin Givens. And so I was willing to be, you know, shape-shifted into something new. And so I think the answer is being willing to grow, being willing to learn, being willing to have someone tell you.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  I see something and I'm gonna find it in there. We're gonna work it together. She, we worked together to find this, to find this moment that she as the director could see, you know, on her video Village monitor that I was like, I'm just gonna go to comedy because that I can do now, that would be fine. We got that take, now let's get something else. Like, how dare you, madam, I will imitate you again. Okay. So anyway, the answer is, I think, just being willing to grow. Look, oh, okay. One thing I said I would never do, other than porn. Why would I? And no one's asked. Thankfully, yes. Well, OnlyFans is gonna send you something. OnlyFans, I might need to buy some more hair, so you do what you gotta do.

• 51:07Keke Palmer?

  Y'all, the holidays are coming up so soon, and you know what that means. We've got some serious shopping to do, but I'm not even stressing, okay? Your girl stays prepared, and I know exactly where I'm headed to make it all happen at Ross. They always have what you need at the price you need at this hella expensive time of year. Yes, it's holiday decor like plates and candles to keep your home looking festive. It's gifts from toys to sweaters for everyone on your list. Whatever it is, it is all at Ross. 20 to 60% off other retailer prices. And we haven't even gotten to the looks yet. Between all these holiday gatherings, parties, and dinner invites filling up on your calendar, you're going to need multiple fits for all these functions.

• 51:51Keke Palmer?

  And trust me, when I tell you Ross has got the range. Every single vibe you're trying to serve this season for every piece of the holidays, and all for less. So take it from me, show up and show out this holiday season, period. Work your magic with Ross.

• 52:09Keke Palmer?

  The magic of the holidays has me in my full festive element. Between turning my home into a winter wonderland, holiday shopping and traveling, I need to show up present and energized for all of these moments. Want to know my secret? It's AG1, this daily health drink that combines all the good stuff. Vitamins, pre and probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants in one simple delicious scoop. I love that AG1 sources the best and highest quality ingredients they can find. Since making AG1 part of my mornings, I've noticed my energy levels are thriving and my digestion is improving. And these flavors, they understood the assignment. I live for the tropical blend, but they also have original berry and citrus options

• 52:53Keke Palmer?

  that'll have you excited to start your day. And get this, AG1 is dropping their best offer ever. Head to drinkag1.com/kiki to get your welcome kit. Vitamin D3 plus K2, AG1 flavor sampler and their new sleep supplement, AGZ, for free, which has been a game changer for my nightly routine. That's just $126 in free gifts for new subscribers at drinkag1.com/kiki. Your wellness routine is about to be that girl.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  I said I would never do a soap opera. I'd heard the rigors. I would never do, why would I do? First of all, the amount of memorization, how quickly they move. It's 40 pages a day, you gotta learn, you gotta, and it's like, just, no, thank you. And then I got a call to audition for Days of Our Lives. We created this role. It's yours to lose. Just, we're gonna read you for this role. I got Angela Gibbs, Marla Gibbs' daughter, to be my coach for this. I can humble myself to go, I can't do this on my own and I don't even really want to do this. Let me get some help. Angela, were you coaching me?

• 54:11Speaker 01

  We just worked together on a show and we did a two, three hour session to get me ready just for the audition and I got it. And I thought... This is the thing I said I would never do.

• 54:21Keke Palmer?

  But it's so cool.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  It's so cool. I grew so much. I'm now working with Deirdre Hall, who's been in the business for 750 years. Jim, uh, Jim Ed, what's his last name? Oh, listen, the memory, they look, they go, got it. I'm like, she's 700 years old and she's got it. That's what keeps them young and nimble.

• 54:40Keke Palmer?

  And I think we get so, in our industry, our industry is so strange. Like, we get into these places where suddenly we decide things are no longer in or that, you know, like where it's like, you know, you'll have this idea about soap opera, but it's like, this is a genre.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  It's a genre.

• 54:52Keke Palmer?

  This is an incredible genre that kept television on. Let's not be silly.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  Your grandmother didn't watch her growing.

• 54:58Keke Palmer?

  Found stars.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  I did a 20-episode arc as this psychopath nurse.

• 55:06Keke Palmer?

  I love the drama.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Kidnapped a man.

• 55:08Keke Palmer?

  And if you're looking for the all-black version, turn on anything Tyler Perry.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. This is what he learned. He learned from this genre.

• 55:15Keke Palmer?

  It's like, you know, divorced sisters.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  A nurse that kidnapped a whole man because her husband had, had died, you know, mistakes that she had made. They put me in a psychiatric ward. I break out. Yes, oh, it's great. Jackie Harry, who plays his wife, gets to slap me. You know, how to stunt, nobody, nobody's stunt coordinating for, for comedians. Kim, we're gonna have to show you how to receive a slap. I'm from Brooklyn. I could do that. How to fall. No, no, no, don't go side, go down. I'm like, okay. It was fantastic. So what we say no, so that maybe the lesson I'm giving here is we say no to things and those are sometimes the things that would grow us, you know, and I allowed myself to grow. So that's about, to answer your question about be open in performance, to say, to say yes, what feels, I, I felt, I got myself ready for it.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  And you had false borders.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  What do you mean I have false borders?

• 56:05Speaker 02

  False borders. You found you had a false border.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Oh, I had a false border. I hope, I hope, what's the new black soap opera? I hope they call.

• 56:12Keke Palmer?

  Divorced sisters. I'm telling you, Tyler, he doing it. Beauty in black.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm ready. And then you turn and you have to look and they say, hold it, hold it.

• 56:21Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Hold it. I'm still holding it. Hold it, hold it.

• 56:24Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  I got it. And then they put that music on. I got to be dramatic. You will not steal my man.

• 56:30Keke Palmer?

  And when the shows have been going on for like 30 years, that even the kids of the kids come back and it's like, I am your mother.

• 56:38Keke Palmer?

  I love it. It's so good. Reliving Single the Podcast. I just want to touch on a little, we've talked about, you know, talked about all the things with the show, but you know, with the podcast, you kind of re-enter with, from a new perspective, these episodes and the conversation. I'm curious with you guys, hearing about dating for millennials and Gen Z, the fact that some of those episodes still relate to us now. What are the ways that it, that it doesn't? That you think the dating scene has changed? That Living Single, you know, if it was here in today's day, would say a totally different story?

• 57:09Speaker 02

  Swipe, white culture.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  It's the apps.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  The apps. We didn't have that. The fact that you can put yourself on display like a department store, you know, catalog, is to me, mind blowing. The fact that people would is shocking, but that's the biggest difference.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  The biggest difference. You know, I think emotion is still emotion. We're still human. And you know, what matters, you get to decide, you know, whether you want, you know, a husband and a picket fence and 3.2 kids. I think that that's still out there, but it's how you meet and how you relate. And the rules, I think some of the rules may have changed a bit. You know, you have, you know, kids who are like fluid, like I, whatever. Next, next. And, and there's a freedom in that, that they find. And we were, I love saying, mind you, I'm a boomer. I'm the tail end of the boomers. Like, we, I'm gonna say, we could still have sex without condoms. Like condoms were to avoid pregnancy. It wasn't because...

• 58:00Keke Palmer?

  Because you might be gone.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Right. And then, you know, we, we was the last generation who could, we're like, oh, we gotta wrap it up.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  Right. That was not my generation. Sorry. That was not my generation at all. No, it's a totally different thing. And also the lack of conversation. So people meet people in these sort of false illusions as opposed to meeting them and seeing them over time. Which really makes a difference because that's how, talk about matriculate. That's how you figure out, maybe, you know, whether this could work out. And there's less... Like, people go to proms and they take pictures of themselves. They think they had a great time. And I'm like, you gotta dance. You gotta dance. You gotta dance with each other. These are mating things that...

• 58:40Keke Palmer?

  You said they think they had a great time.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Having to put them in pictures. Yeah, and you gotta be passed over, too. That, even that feeling to de-reject... The so-called rejection is actually building sort of, you know, your emotional, whatever.

• 58:55Keke Palmer?

  It helps you grow. It's an experience that you have to have to help you grow. Kim said, you know, that you guys were teaching a master class. And we're talking about multi-chem sitcoms. Some still exist. It's not as a popular of a thing, you know, as it once was. But when you're thinking about entertainers today, what do you think that they could learn? Or what's something, you know, that you guys were doing that, you know, you would want to teach the next generation of entertainers?

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Thousand things. To read. People don't read enough. They don't read, so they don't think right. Actually, reading teaches your mind how to see, not only see senses, but communicate, but also how to speak. You have to read. You can't just regurgitate. And this is not enough. It's got to be something where you sit down and enjoy a story from the front to beginning and middle. Because it's teaching you about narrative. And narrative is important. If you're not in a narrative game, you're not in this business. You're not in the world. Everything is controlled by narrative. But if you don't know how to build them or how they build, conflict, all these things, humor, how do you put it together? How you need complications and reversals and all those things that writers do and now this stupid AI does. But you can teach yourself, just read.

• 1:00:06Keke Palmer?

  It's so true. I was realizing with myself that one of my favorite literary devices is embedded narrative. And as I've gotten older, I realized, first of all, I realized that that device is embedded narrative. I've realized what embedded narrative is. And then I was like, oh, the first time that I saw that was in the Bible.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 1:00:23Keke Palmer?

  And I was like, oh my gosh, like it's so interesting where you find your language for storytelling and narrative and bringing something back to a big idea and and I was like, wow, that's like, that's how I was reading, that's what I was learning, that's how I was understanding what story was and what narrative is, just not just from TV and film, but human life.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:00:42Keke Palmer?

  Experiences, so it's so true, whatever you can read, it really would be, it really changes the way you see things.

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  Can I say just really quick thing, narrative so strong and it can be done in such a small thing that can change people's habits or make them feel like they're doing things they're not. CP time should not exist. Color people were not the people who were late. But we adopted it, so we suddenly go, oh, I'm in CP time. I said, what black person did you ever see in the 60s or 50s or whatever that were late?

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Could be late.

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  What it should be in, the darker the skin, the earlier in. That's a new narrative.

• 1:01:13Keke Palmer?

  Now, wait a minute, darker the skin, the earlier in?

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  The earlier in, yeah.

• 1:01:15Keke Palmer?

  Is that, did you do that today?

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  Just, well, I actually did that a few months ago because I realized.

• 1:01:20Keke Palmer?

  I love this.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  The earlier in with investment, the earlier into work, the earlier in. Get that in now.

• 1:01:26Keke Palmer?

  The darker the skin, the earlier in is excellent.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  CP time is a propaganda by white people that told us, you lazy Negroes, you come in late.

• 1:01:35Keke Palmer?

  I'm not laughing, it's the way you're performing it.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  It's true. I'm not laughing. Iza, Iza here, oh, Iza, uh-uh. We didn't do CP time, so I don't say it.

• 1:01:43Keke Palmer?

  The darker the skin, the earlier in, I'm never letting go.

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  Do it.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  Here's what's funny about that, though. Lots of cultures have their own relationship to time. So if you talk to Greek people, they say, oh, we're always late. You talk to Italians, oh, we're never there. So like, we each have our, that propaganda has been put on each and they take it on like an Indian wedding, you know, it's gonna be 17 days long.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  But it doesn't have as much weight with the fact that when black people take it on, African Americans who built this frickin' nation, they mean that we were late, that CP time, and I'm saying that we need to start putting, and especially in young people, things that are empowering and not be like, oh, I was on CP time, no black person can win in this world and be late.

• 1:02:23Keke Palmer?

  I think the big thing too is just nuance, right? I know a lot of folks that's late and I know a lot of folks is, what'd you say, darker the skin, the earlier in. So I think it's nuance and in this day and age, the one One thing that does excite me, even though digital, we can have our ups and downs with it, is it, it does offer you the reality that we're not a monolith. Women are a monolith.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  Please.

• 1:02:42Keke Palmer?

  The gays ain't a monolith, the blacks ain't a monolith, the Greeks ain't, you know, whatever. We can go in and list and list and list. Is it, because the problem isn't, you know, that, yeah, there are some unrealistic and unfair propagandas. It's that, that sometimes those are the only narratives you hear.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:57Keke Palmer?

  You need multiple different perspectives in order to portray a real truth.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Erika says, read, and I say also, explore. Get out of your, your, your, you know, six block radius. Allow your mind, travel, experience, learn, meet new people. Go to different kinds of churches, different kinds of experiences. Go learn to do something that you never thought that you would do, just to have the experience and to open your, open your mind.

• 1:03:23Keke Palmer?

  Open yourself up to it.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  I was, I was telling my boyfriend that there was somewhere that I went that I had never experienced. The first time you go to a restaurant and there's a wait, it's a white tablecloth restaurant, and they have that little tool that takes the crumbs off the table.

• 1:03:38Keke Palmer?

  Oh, yeah, that little thing, I love that, but I always ruin the damn table itself.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  Right, right, but the first time I saw that, I was like, what are you doing? He said, well, I'm taking the crumbs away. I didn't know that a tool like that existed until I was.

• 1:03:51Keke Palmer?

  Watched the Gilded Age.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  Right, well, you can, that's available to you now, but in my early twenties, I didn't know what that was.

• 1:03:59Keke Palmer?

  No, seriously.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Right, so you, allow yourself to experience new things.

• 1:04:03Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Well, I always play a game with my guests, and I'm so sad that we're coming to the end. I literally, I feel like we time lapsed, time warped in this conversation, and we were just having so much fun. But, you know, because we are talking about living single, I thought we'd play the all living single matchmaker addiction. And you know, a lot of people think that being single is bad, but no, honestly, it's a choice half the damn time. So I'm gonna give you guys a list of different available open women, tell you a little something about them, and we're gonna pick a celebrity match for them.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  Oh, I love.

• 1:04:35Keke Palmer?

  It's a little fun, it's a little theory.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 1:04:37Keke Palmer?

  Here we go.

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  I'm good at this. I'm good at this.

• 1:04:40Keke Palmer?

  I'm good at this.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  You are? Have you ever done it before? I'm good at this.

• 1:04:44Keke Palmer?

  Of course. Tracee Ellis Ross. She's funny, grounded, radiant, never compromises. She loves her alone time, but if someone could join her joyfully, who would it be?

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  You ain't got no choices for us, we gotta pick?

• 1:04:57Keke Palmer?

  You want me, it's for y'all.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  Just pull out of the ether.

• 1:04:59Keke Palmer?

  I'll jump in one, once y'all after y'all.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  Wow, it's gotta be somebody, I think unfortunately, younger. And she said she was down with.

• 1:05:06Keke Palmer?

  She liked younger, she won younger.

• 1:05:08Speaker 02

  She needs younger. Gosh, you know what? Does it have to be somebody that's free? Because I don't know if they're free.

• 1:05:15Keke Palmer?

  No, no, no, and we mean no disrespect, but if they're not free, it's just for the game.

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  Okay, good, no disrespect.

• 1:05:21Keke Palmer?

  No disrespect.

• 1:05:21Speaker 02

  No disrespect.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  I would say whoever it is, it would have to be someone who has his own. He is solid in his own business, has his own money, that he's not there with her to see what he can get from her.

• 1:05:34Keke Palmer?

  You know who I think that she would have fun dating? I don't know how serious this young man is about women and stuff like that, like I don't know if he's like, I, I think his, what I'm appearing and thinking of him, I think he could be a great long-term partner for her. Damson Idris.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:05:48Keke Palmer?

  He's young.

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  Wow, he's pretty young.

• 1:05:50Keke Palmer?

  He has it together, but she liked that. Thirty-seven, he ain't thirty-seven, he like, he younger than me. He's like twenty-eight, twenty-nine, right?

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  Oh, no, that's too young.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  No way.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  And how old is she? How old is she? She's fifty-three?

• 1:06:02Keke Palmer?

  But she says she liked young.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  I, I recommend them more than.

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  Ta-Nehisi Coates.

• 1:06:06Keke Palmer?

  Who's Ta-Nehisi Coates?

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  He is the writer of, um, uh, oh gosh, Between the World and Me, Thank You Love.

• 1:06:14Keke Palmer?

  Between the World and Me, Ta-Nehisi Coates, okay.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  It'll have to be somebody intellectual, so I don't know who it is, but someone intellectual.

• 1:06:18Keke Palmer?

  Y'all are like, he's too young.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Who has his own, and, uh, I would say don't go any long, uh, uh, younger than fifteen years younger.

• 1:06:25Keke Palmer?

  No younger than fifteen, okay.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  Damson Idris, that's it.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:28Keke Palmer?

  Thirty-three, okay, well, he's old with me.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  Damson's thirty-three? Okay, I thought he's.

• 1:06:31Keke Palmer?

  Damson's thirty-three, that's not that bad.

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  The woman who played his mother in F1 was thirty-seven, supposedly.

• 1:06:38Keke Palmer?

  Damn, she was right there, neck and neck.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  It happens all the time.

• 1:06:41Speaker 02

  That's what I, that's what I'm remembering.

• 1:06:42Keke Palmer?

  That's crazy.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  Right, happens all the time.

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, unless the Wiki is wrong.

• 1:06:45Keke Palmer?

  That's how I've been about Zosia Rockmore forever, her and the girl that was playing the teenager were about the same age.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  About the same age, happens all the time.

• 1:06:51Speaker 02

  They did do that to you.

• 1:06:51Keke Palmer?

  Hallie Bailey.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:06:53Keke Palmer?

  Okay, she stepped into her womanhood, she's a mother, um, obviously a superstar. If she were to entertain a future partner, who would match her softness and her star power?

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  Donald Glover.

• 1:07:07Keke Palmer?

  They would have been cute. Obviously, he's married.

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  Yes, just a very interesting match.

• 1:07:12Keke Palmer?

  That would have been cute.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, nice, nice.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  And he's, you know, weird and wonderful and creative, super creative, and they could play.

• 1:07:20Speaker 02

  They could play.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  I love it, love it, love it. I love him, I love him.

• 1:07:23Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, that's a good one, that's a good one, okay.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  Love, okay.

• 1:07:26Keke Palmer?

  Gail King.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:07:28Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:07:29Keke Palmer?

  Auntie Gail's been booked and blessed all her life. But we want to see her in...

• 1:07:35Speaker 02

  All her life.

• 1:07:35Keke Palmer?

  We want to see her companionship era.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:40Keke Palmer?

  And don't say Oprah. I'm just kidding.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  I would never, I would never, no.

• 1:07:43Keke Palmer?

  But you see when they talked about it recently?

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  This chick did.

• 1:07:45Keke Palmer?

  Like, can you believe people try to say?

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  But it has to be a man who would be okay with Oprah being the best friend.

• 1:07:53Keke Palmer?

  And that they're cool with their life.

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Senator Cory Booker.

• 1:07:56Keke Palmer?

  Damn, you're good, actually.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Because they're political, what, no, no, no. Well...

• 1:08:00Keke Palmer?

  But how old is he?

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  Senator Cory Booker? He's younger than Gail King? But what I like about him is that he's political, he lives in Jersey. I'm just saying for her, that might be an interesting person.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  What I love about him is that he's so earnest. There's an earnestness in him.

• 1:08:15Speaker 02

  He's a good.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  He's a good, he's a good.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  He's a good.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  Okay, who do you say then?

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  But I don't, I can't think of individual, like, when I leave here, I'm like, oh, it should have been so and so. Again, it would have to be somebody who is okay with her, you know, like, you gotta...

• 1:08:32Keke Palmer?

  Her having such an individual life.

• 1:08:34Speaker 02

  Mark Lamont, um...

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Mark Lamont Hill.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  Hill.

• 1:08:36Keke Palmer?

  Mark Lamont Hill, guys, he's not too young?

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  He, but...

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  But he, but he's smart.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  Come on, y'all, don't throw me, come on.

• 1:08:43Keke Palmer?

  Mark Lamont Hill, I love.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:45Keke Palmer?

  I love him.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  He's super smart, he could go toe to toe with her on any conversation on inter...

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  He's from Philly.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love him, I love him.

• 1:08:52Keke Palmer?

  Okay, wait, this is a fun one for you guys.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  And he's, and he's strong as a, you know, as a man, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:57Keke Palmer?

  I love Mark Lamont Hill.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, okay.

• 1:08:58Keke Palmer?

  So this is a fun one.

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  I can't think of a similar person.

• 1:09:00Keke Palmer?

  She's a boss, a mama, one of America's favorite multi-hyphenates.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  Oh, you.

• 1:09:08Keke Palmer?

  Who is worthy of stepping in the Kiki's world?

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  You know who I would like for you? Someone like Serena's husband, Alex, what's his name?

• 1:09:17Keke Palmer?

  Oh, Alex O'Haney, somebody rich.

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  Super rich.

• 1:09:21Speaker 02

  That would be lovely.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  Super like go do you, like I feel like his support of her is like, and when people come for her, he writes, you know, his comments like-

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  Unique defender, a great defender.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Unique defender, and it got enough money to go, "You can't cancel me, cuz I will make something and sell it for a billion dollars."

• 1:09:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  So go ahead, go ahead. He would love on, someone like that, he would love on you. Yeah, someone like that, like go do you, go do you, and be watching on the side while he's still, while his millions are making millions. Yeah, that's what I want for you.

• 1:09:48Speaker 02

  Well, you know what, I might have said Idris, who you said.

• 1:09:51Keke Palmer?

  Interesting.

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  The one that you talked about.

• 1:09:53Keke Palmer?

  Damsen?

• 1:09:53Speaker 02

  Damsen.

• 1:09:54Keke Palmer?

  Really?

• 1:09:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, because that's interesting, but I think that-

• 1:09:56Keke Palmer?

  What makes you say Damsen?

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  What makes you say Damsen?

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  Well, you obviously like him, but you know, I got a new guy, he's a dark horse. You know, his name is, um, um, his name is DeAdrian Lester.

• 1:10:12Keke Palmer?

  Who's DeAdrian Lester?

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  Burley Mac, really great actor, right there, who's dying, and if I don't say him-

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  If I don't say him, he's dying, if I don't say him.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  He's one of the best people I know, he's a fantastic performer, and I know, and I tell you, DeAdrian would be like, "Gimme tell you something." That's Burley Mac.

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  You need somebody who's down to earth, someone who's gonna help you make the chicken wings, but also-

• 1:10:33Keke Palmer?

  Yes, definitely down to earth.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  Down to, you can't-

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  And building him.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Building and building, okay.

• 1:10:37Speaker 02

  You know, I'd like to think about that with you, because I actually think that there's a lot of people who would be strengthened by you, and also, there's, there's a part of me that knows that there's a lot of growth.

• 1:10:49Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  And so I don't want anybody to think that they're the growth for you.

• 1:10:52Keke Palmer?

  Yes!

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  That's wrong.

• 1:10:54Keke Palmer?

  That's so true, it's so big for me that a man's not the center of my storyline.

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  By all this energy.

• 1:11:00Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  And there's a lot of people who will suppress it. No, you have to be delighted, but I just wanna see who's that, and I think they might be in a different country.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh yeah.

• 1:11:09Keke Palmer?

  Everybody always says stuff like that.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Something international, there's a couple on, I see on the shows, social medias, I don't know their names or anything, and she's so funny, and so wacky, and she dresses up in outfits, and-

• 1:11:20Keke Palmer?

  Christie.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  Is that, is that who it is? And he is so, and she walks in, but like-

• 1:11:24Keke Palmer?

  Her husband's a chef.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  I think that's them. She'll walk in in like a lamb suit and he just cracks up. Like he's so delighted by her. Like, ah, there you go again.

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  You can't think the person is too much.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Is that who it is? Like, he's so delighted by her. Everything like, you got me, you got me again. Like, I want somebody who would just be your support that way.

• 1:11:43Keke Palmer?

  You have to laugh at my jokes.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 1:11:45Keke Palmer?

  Imperative.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, and someone who would make you laugh too. Someone who could, you could take it all down and just curl up and lay up in him. And he could hold that for you too. Because that's needed too. That's needed.

• 1:11:59Keke Palmer?

  So true.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Keke Palmer?

  Okay, so DeAdrian Lester. You know, damson, interest type vibe.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:12:04Keke Palmer?

  Got it, okay. I'm gonna put that in.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  Someone deserving of you.

• 1:12:06Keke Palmer?

  To the AI later on.

• 1:12:10Keke Palmer?

  Well, thank you guys so much.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  I don't know this man, I feel sorry for this man. I don't know, I've never seen this man before.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Keke Palmer, thank you. Let me tell you something. You're a breath of fresh air.

• 1:12:19Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  You have been this whole time. You give off not only a vibe that's inner and outer, but you're, you live out loud and you live in a space where we get to, did you show us how high up is? As you're climbing. So, thank you for that. And I love you to death and so really happy to see you in this world being so wonderful. But also, the sky's the limit. Thank you for, you know, profiling, having us on the show.

• 1:12:46Keke Palmer?

  You guys, I love you guys.

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  And I know that you're not fearless, but you,

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  You couldn't be fearless. You couldn't even do this if you didn't know what the parameters were and what was at stake. And yet, you are, you, you, Who's that?

• 1:13:01Keke Palmer?

  Come here.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  Who's that?

• 1:13:02Speaker 02

  That's the baby.

• 1:13:02Keke Palmer?

  That's the baby.

• 1:13:03Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 1:13:05Keke Palmer?

  That's the baby.

• 1:13:07Keke Palmer?

  That energy was too much.

• 1:13:10Speaker 01

  Anyway, you show us, like you said, she shows us how high is, but also, you're doing this courageously and beautifully. And thank you.

• 1:13:18Keke Palmer?

  It means the world to me. I've always looked up to you both. Always been a fan of your work. And I'm just so glad, hopefully, we all get to do something at some point again. I've been hoping to do something with you. So, we gotta add Kim up in there too.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And by the way, congratulations on, You know, with SZA.

• 1:13:35Keke Palmer?

  Oh, thank you. "One of Them Days." We got two. Another one.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  "One of Them Days." With Macro, Charles.

• 1:13:40Keke Palmer?

  I really want her to do that remake with me.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  You're gonna do a second girl?

• 1:13:43Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, and I think that Mia-Ha would do so cute if we do "One of Them Days." If we did like a little, she could make it very SZA. "Once and once in one of them days." "Once and once in one of them days." You know how she do.

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  We wanted you to win. We were in the movie theater going, "I want him to win. I want him to win."

• 1:13:58Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  Congratulations.

• 1:13:59Keke Palmer?

  Thank you, guys.

• 1:14:03Keke Palmer?

  Kim, Erika, and the whole Living Single cast, I love them down. They were trailblazers. Single, smart, stylish, black women living their lives authentically and unapologetically on TV. And they thrived in this industry with so much grace and power. The culture still feels their impact, and so do I. Baby, this is Keke Palmer.

• 1:14:36Keke Palmer?

  "Baby, This Is Keke Palmer" is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Segal is our post-producer. Our producers are Lauren Hampton and Molly Nester. Hillary Esti McLaughlin is our executive producer. Production services provided by Evolution Media. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer. For Team Kiki, my producer is Sharon Palmer. For Wondery, our managing producer is Olivia Fonte. Senior managing producer is Nick Ryan. And our executive producers are Emily Feldbrake, Erin O'Flaherty, and Marshall Louie.

• 1:15:13Speaker 04

  Dr. Seuss' Cat in the Hat and Fish are back for a whole lot of wonderfully whimsical fun. What happens when you switch bodies with your best friend? Discover a caveman frozen in ice? Or make an alien so angry he threatens to destroy the planet? Find out in season two of the Cat in the Hat podcast. The Cat and Fish are traveling the world in the great catastrophic cacophony cruiser, meeting genies, clown professors, cave trolls, and extraordinary characters along the way. With clever wordplay, imaginative rhymes, original songs, and stories celebrating curiosity, empathy, and creative problem solving, every adventure brings something new to discover.

• 1:15:56Speaker 04

  It's a world of wonderful words, big imaginations, and plenty of heart for the whole family. Listen to the Cat in the Hat podcast wherever you get your podcast. Audible subscribers can binge all 20 episodes early and ad-free right now.

• 1:16:13Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Kenya Barris.

• 1:16:14Speaker 06

  And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects.

• 1:16:20Speaker 05

  We're bringing you fresh, new conversations from guests like Anderson Paak, David Zedarius, Ryan Howard, Richel, Amy Sheldon, and many more.

• 1:16:26Speaker 06

  Sign up for a free trial to Audible to listen to season two in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.