88 Jim Afremow: Think, Train and Thrive with a Champion's Mind

"Champions do not leave the mental game to chance or circumstance." - Jim Afremow To learn more about the show you can get the show notes for free at LewisHowes.com/88 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 88 with sports psychologist and author Jim Affermo. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone today to the podcast. My name is Lewis Howes. I'm your host. Super pumped about today's guest. He is a sports psychologist and has worked with a number of the top athletes in the world, Olympians, and also worked with a lot of business executives as well. And it's all about stepping into the champion's mind. That's actually the title of his book, The Champion's Mind: How Great Athletes Think, Train, and Thrive. Now I saw this on, in bookstores a while back and right away it caught my attention. Because for me, I've applied the champion's mind into business, into other areas of my life. You know, I've learned the skills of being an athlete and what it means to be a champion.

• 1:16Lewis Howes?

  And then I've used it in other areas of my life. And that's exactly what we talk about here in the School of Greatness. So when I saw the book, I was like, I've gotta get this guy on. And I'm excited to introduce you to him and have him talk about how to tap into, and how to have the champion's mind so that you can apply it in your business, in your life, in relationships and everything. Okay, super pumped. And with that guys, let's go ahead and step into the champion's mind with Jim Affermo.

• 1:53Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. Super pumped about this interview today. It's with Jim Afremow. Is that how you say it?

• 2:02Speaker 01

  That is correct.

• 2:03Lewis Howes?

  Afremow. I've been messing it up beforehand. So Jim Afremow, The Champion's Mind, How Great Athletes Think, Train, and Thrive. Now, Jim, I'm excited. You're like one of the few people I've actually reached out to, to do a podcast, believe it or not. I get requests to do interviews all the time and I saw your book on, in Barnes and Noble, I believe it was, probably like six months ago. Whenever it came out, I saw it right on the shelves and I was like, this is the book I want. And I was like, I'm going to interview him someday. So I've been, the book has been on my shelf for a while. I've been going through lots of different books for, for interviews and I'm excited to ask you questions about it.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Hey, great to be here. I'm looking forward to our discussion.

• 2:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Now, for me, as a sports guy, as an athlete, you know, I used to play lots of different sports, competitive in college and then played professional football for a little bit. And now I'm playing with the USA national team for a sport time called Team Handball. So I'm still in this mindset of thinking, training, and thriving, right? This is like my, my dream still. And so these are some amazing practical tips in here. And I want to talk about how athletes can tap into these strategies, but also how entrepreneurs and everyday individuals can tap into the champion's mind. So if you can, I'd love to talk about both of those. And you talk about quick solutions for overcoming your inner

• 3:30Lewis Howes?

  resistance. I think a lot of people, when I think about sports and big moments, or even, you know, public speaking, or big moments in, in life, whether it be a job interview or something like that, I think about resistance and facing performance anxiety and stress and just resistance in general, resistance for look, fear of looking bad, for failing, for not getting the results you want, or the fear of getting the results you want, and then what happens. So can you talk about some of the easier solutions for overcoming your inner resistance? Somebody maybe this conversation that we have inside.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Sure, Louis. I think number one, self-awareness is the key to change. And whatever we do, there's going to be risks. So there's a risk or fear of failure. You know, I don't want to put my all into this, and whatever it might be, and fall short. And then, you know, do I let myself down? Do I let my family down? Do I let my teammates down? Do I let my coaches down? So there's that fear of failure that, you know, I don't want to put everything into this. And then what's that going to say about me as a person? As an athlete, as a performer? And then, on the other hand, I think you hit the nail on the head. There's also fear of success, fear of accomplishing everything you dreamed about. And the reason why I think that is actually a bigger concern is because we never talk about it.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  And so, number one, the risk of success is that the better I do, the better I have to do. And then the demands placed on me become incessant. And can I live up to those? Do I want to live up to those? Do I want to be in the spotlight all the time? And so I think sometimes we shrink back from that, subconsciously, because we don't think we're ready. I remember reading about Annika Sorenstam, the, you know, one of the best women golfers ever, that said that, early in her career, she pretty much tanked a few tournaments because she wasn't ready to, you know, give the victory speech and to be interviewed on, you know, on national TV. And so, when she was ready, then she really took off. But it was more because of her mental state that made the difference than her physical skills.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Really? Those were always there. The other thing, too, is that the better we get at something, people come out of the woodwork and try to knock us down. I heard an interesting quote recently that said, "New levels bring new devils." So you've got to watch your back when you climb. But also, I find this actually particularly important when I work with female athletes. Because usually, when I work with male athletes, the better they do, the more they're liked by their teammates. And, you know, unfortunately, with women's sports, sometimes the better they do, the least they're liked on their team. And I think that that's not necessarily a knock on women. It's just that women are taught to cooperate so that when you stand apart, then, you know, the girls might be jealous or think that, well, she's not that good. So...

• 6:21Speaker 01

  I think the most successful people I've worked with just had to get over the fact that, you know what, not everyone's gonna like me, that's okay. As long as I'm proud of myself, you know, I have peace of mind, I know I've done my best, then, you know, I could roll with whatever happens.

• 6:36Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  So, you know, and then in terms of, just real quick, in terms of the performance anxiety, it's just realizing that all I can do is the best I can do, I've trained it, let's go out there and trust it, and I can live with whatever happens.

• 6:49Lewis Howes?

  Right, gotcha, yeah. It's kind of just that self-awareness like you talked about, it's like, I'm putting everything out there that I've learned, that I've practiced, and there's nothing else I can do if I just give my best, right?

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Absolutely, your best is the best, and the motto of my book is, "Think gold and never settle for silver," and that's really what I mean by that, is your personal best really, truly is your ultimate victory.

• 7:12Lewis Howes?

  Right, that's interesting, and we were just talking about the interview with Shawn Johnson where she got three silver medals and one gold, and she said that she gave her best in those silvers, and she doesn't feel bad because she went all out, and it wasn't, it was up to judgment, and you know, someone else might have done better or whatever, but she gave her best in that moment, and that's all she can be, she can't be upset about it.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely not, in fact, she should be really proud of herself, and Natalie Cook, she's a five-time Olympian, Australian outdoor, you know, beach volleyball player, and she shared with me that when she told people that she was going for the gold medal in her event, when she was a lot younger, they, you know, people thought she was crazy, and she eventually did win the gold medal, she won it at home in the 2000 Sydney Olympics, and she was asked, "Well, what if you didn't win the gold medal, what would you have done?" And she had a perfect response, she said, "I would have painted whatever medal I had gold," and I thought that that was just a great way of looking at it, so it really is about our personal goal.

• 8:13Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, I like it, and it's... In the champion's mind, any champion's mind, I like this, you have all these different strategies and tips and things that they can practice. And early on in the book, you talk about daily gut check questions. And I love this. I want to have you give me a reason why this is powerful and why athletes or entrepreneurs or anyone should set this for themselves. But basically, you say at sunrise, ask yourself, how will I be a champion today? Which is setting the intention for what you want to create that day. And then at night or at sunset, you say, you ask yourself, how was I a champion today? So you're being accountable. So why is it important to set the intention every day and keep accountable

• 8:57Lewis Howes?

  for your dreams and your goals and achieving, becoming a champion and whatever it is you're doing?

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Well, today is all we really ever have. There's a sign at a bar I once saw, and I think, you know, I've read this before. So there must be a lot of these signs out there. But the sign at the bar I saw said, free beer tomorrow. And you know, what happens if you show up tomorrow? There's no, you know, it's, you know, there is no tomorrow. And so today is what gets us to tomorrow. And so, you know, I really am all about, you know, it's a win the day attitude. It's, you know, today counts. And a lot of times, we BS ourselves, to be honest. We procrastinate, we put things off until we're perfectly ready. And that day never comes. So even if you're at 75% today, don't use that as an excuse.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Get 100% out of your 75%. And you'll be well on your way to accomplishing your goal. So today plus today plus today gets you where you want to be.

• 9:55Lewis Howes?

  I like that. I think it's, I mean, you've got to have some urgency in whatever it is you want to create. You can't just take action tomorrow. You've got to take action now, every moment. And you got to continue to take action in the moment now, today. Because there is no tomorrow, there is no guarantee tomorrow, whatever it may be. And you may not be able to have that opportunity. So I like that thought. Now, on one of the pages, I think it was 19, you talk about, this is interesting, I want to get your take on this. You mentioned how good people's skills can facilitate and/or impede your pursuit of excellence. Now, what does that actually mean? Why, why would good people's skills impede the pursuit of excellence?

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Well, coaches, their perceptions of their athletes will determine, you know, who gets to start and playing time. And if I'm a coach, I want someone that demonstrates that they're all in, that they bought in to what the team is all about and that they get along well with their teammates. They challenge their teammates, but they support their teammates on game day, obviously. And that they add positive energy, you know, or they add chemistry to the team instead of being the one that spoils it. So, you know, we are social creatures and so you have to go along to get along when you're part of a team. Now, that doesn't mean you can't be a leader and challenge and do all

• 11:21Speaker 01

  those good things, but it has to be for the benefit of the team.

• 11:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay. So what are some, what are some strategies for developing good social relationships then?

• 11:30Speaker 01

  I think being direct, being honest, sometimes giving someone the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes we read in, we make attributions about others. You know, someone cuts us off in traffic and we think, oh, what a jerk, when maybe they didn't see us. Or maybe they're on their way to the hospital and they have, they're concerned about a family member. So I think sometimes it's important to give someone, you know, to give each other the benefit of the doubt if someone's having a bad day. But if it continues, then we need to have an honest conversation with them and say, you know, basically, how do we want this to turn out? How can we get along better? How can we push each other in a positive direction?

• 12:03Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, right, right. I like that. Now, you know, I always hated it when coaches would play favorites. You know, it's like even when the kid would, or the athlete would mess up all the time, it's like sometimes they would just let them continue to mess up because they liked them. And if the other athlete messed up once in a blue moon, it's like they could never mess up and they still couldn't get it right. I never liked that with coaches when they, it's always seemed unfair. So I like the idea of being direct, being kind of like open in that communication as opposed to having your athletes wonder, like what's happening, you know, are they playing favorites, things like that.

• 12:42Lewis Howes?

  Mental imagery, this is something I'm a big believer in and something I practice constantly. I practice it in the morning, I practice it at night for sports, for my dreams, for my goals, everything I want to create, I'm constantly going through mental visualization. And you say, uh, mental imagery, visualize to actualize. Now, some people may think, well, isn't that kind of like law of attraction, woo-woo stuff, where you think it and it just happens? And you start, you think you want to make a million dollars and then you get a million dollar check? And obviously, it's not that. So can we talk about, um, what is mental imagery? And how does it work to enhance performance?

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Sure, it's, uh, it's basically, uh, seeing and feeling your performance before you actually do it. And, uh, you know, perfect example, I don't know if you remember this, but, uh, during the Sochi Olympics, uh, Michaela Shifrin, uh, she became the youngest slalom, uh, champion in Olympic, uh, Alpine skiing history.

• 13:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Uh, she had just turned age eighteen. And, uh, so she was asked by reporters prior to the competition, um, you know, what's it like? This is your first Olympics. And I loved her response. She said, "I've been here before in my head for sure. To everybody, this is my first Olympics, but to me, I've been here a thousand times before."

• 14:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  So, talk about using visualization so that when she got there, you know, almost been here, done that, uh, now I can just go out there and compete. Uh, the neat thing about visualization is we can use it for so many different purposes. So for example, if you're injured, instead of just sitting at practice, watching your teammates run through drills, you can visually practice running through those same drills. And some of the greatest, uh, athletes of all time have, have talked about that.

• 14:30Lewis Howes?

  And they call them mental reps.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, they get their mental reps in so that when you leave the game physically, you don't have to leave it mentally. Uh, so that is so important. Another thing to do would be, you know, picture yourself, um, dealing with all types of adversity and overcoming it, uh, whether, you know, different, you know, inclement weather, or, you know, it's the last, you know, it's the last shot of the game. So that when you're in those situations, um, it's, it's more familiar. Uh, and you, and you have more confidence, uh, and that you just are able to let your body fly and, you know, and, and, and reach, reach its goal.

• 15:09Lewis Howes?

  And you talk about, you say when visualizing, you know, some people might think, okay, now how do I actually do this? You know, I can, do I see myself? Am I looking above from bird's eye view? Is it me doing the reps? Is it me, you know, looking at myself from a different person's point of view? And you talk about in the book, uh, you say strive to experience the action in a 3D form. The first, or from the first person point of view through your own eyes as opposed to a third person point of view through the eyes of a spectator. And you say to see it, feel it, and enjoy it. Now, what does that actually mean?

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Well, if you look through your own eyes so that if you're, if you're sitting at your couch and you're, you know, or at practice and you're visualizing yourself performing, seeing it from that internal perspective makes it a little bit easier to feel yourself performing as well. Versus if you're watching yourself, let's say on TV.

• 16:00Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  But really seeing it and feeling it, so we're visual, we're so visual and sports are so visual that you really want to see it, you know? So brighten the colors, uh, you know, bring the image closer, you know, really make it so that you're right there. Feeling it in your body is important too. So when I work with a golfer, with your first rehearsal swing, see the ball going to your target. With your second rehearsal swing, feel the body making the swing that you want to make. And then just go let it rip. And so, uh, the enjoying it part is so important because enjoying yourself is how we let all of our skills come out. And so.

• 16:40Lewis Howes?

  It gets us in the flow state, right?

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it gets us in the flow state. And if you're, you know, and I think that's one of the misconceptions we all have. And you mentioned coaches sometimes have, you know, that, you know, coaches have certain ways of looking at things. Uh, and sometimes coaches look at, well, if you're having fun, you're not taking it serious enough. And my response is if you're taking it too serious, you know, lots of luck. So.

• 17:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd rather you be a little more playful and I, you know, I would say it's fun with a purpose. It's not like you're goofing around, but if you're not enjoying yourself, you're doing it wrong. And if, and if a team isn't really enjoying themselves, then the coach is doing something wrong.

• 17:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's all stressful and work and, you know, strict attitudes. It's like, what's the point of playing a game in the first place?

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and when you look at the best athletes in the world, we don't say uh they work at gymnastics or they work at golf. We say they play, you know, they play their sport. And you know, the rest of us work at it and then wonder why we fall short. So my whole thing with practice versus competition is be a little more serious in practice. Uh, you know, like we talked about earlier, make today count. How am I getting better today is your attitude. But then when you get to the competition, to be honest, it's just a fancy practice. Uh, it's just a special day. It's just, it's just, you know, it's a time to go out there and really express yourself. It's not a time to prove yourself. You should have already proven yourself during the offseason and during the training phase. But when you go out there for a competition, just go out there and freewheel.

• 18:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, yeah, I like that. You know, the days that I was always the more relaxed and enjoying it, uh it was always a better performance than if I was like serious and had to like do well. And I was stressing out, obviously, so. You know, it's interesting, a couple of examples from my own experience back in college. I used to, I used to watch I was a decathlete and also played football in college and I would watch a highlight film of like this great wide receiver doing all these incredible plays and catches and running the routes and I would watch this pretty much every day before practice, I would watch this and try to embody what I saw in the video. And I would do the same thing for the decathlon with uh an event I was trying to really learn at the time, which was uh pole vault.

• 18:50Lewis Howes?

  For me, it was like the hardest event to just learn um to be good at. And I would watch this like all-star DVD pole vaulters kind of highlight reel over and over and over again every day while I was in the track season. And I just felt like having something to to mock and to visualize on TV or on a video screen, but also running through it in my head afterwards and visualizing it was so helpful in me achieving my goals and actually creating those same results. It's like I was able to recreate what I saw on screen and in my head in real life. So I, so I really understand the value of uh doing this type of visualization and you've got A lot of great examples in here in the book, so that's that's awesome stuff.

• 19:35Lewis Howes?

  The next thing that again, I love everything in the book you talk about for me, it's just like reaffirming what I was doing was was working. And it gives some good points. The next one is self-talk. And you have some interesting research that you have here on self-talk. I believe it's on page 40, where you talk about tasks requiring fine motor skills need instructional self-talk. Whereas tasks requiring strength and endurance needed motivational self-talk. Now, can you talk about what that actually means and how to apply that?

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Sure, if you're doing a complex task, let's say a golf swing or even pole vault, you might need to remind yourself of maybe one or two things. Uh, before your attempt that uh, that are mechanical. So that you could bring the whole movement together, but if you're let's say, running or doing some sort of endurance sport. It's not so much about the technique. You probably already have that down, you know, when it's time to compete. So it's just about pushing yourself.

• 20:37Lewis Howes?

  Overcoming the pain.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, and realizing too, that there's some, there's, there's a lot of pleasure on the other side of that pain. But yeah, it's really, uh, because your body, you know, what do we say in, in like cycling is shut up legs, you know? And so, um, that's where you got to, you know, the body wins when the mind refuses to give in. So for endurance sports, uh, you know, whether swimming or running, triathlon, hiking, those are, those are the kind of events where it's got to be motivational. You know, push, push, push, go, go, go. And that will help you get through that rough patch that you're experiencing in the moment.

• 21:13Lewis Howes?

  Right. If, but if you're like, if you're running and you're saying, okay, make sure to relax your shoulders and put your arms at 90 degrees and run on your toes and do this. You're probably to get out of the zone and confused as opposed to wanting to push forward. Uh, but as you know, as a, as a pole vaulter, for me, it was really key for my, my coach to be like, okay, focus on hitting your mark with your foot. Or focus on driving your knee up, uh, just like one or two simple things where I just did focused on that. And then allowed myself to go through the rest of the motion. That was really helpful for me.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't want to before, before your jump in a pole vault, for example, you don't want to be

• 21:51Lewis Howes?

  Come on, let's go.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, let's, yeah, or, or giving yourself a full lesson either, but

• 21:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  But yeah, a couple of quick reminders get you in tune with what you, what you want your body to accomplish.

• 22:01Lewis Howes?

  I like that.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  And, and it's even, you mentioned visualization with pole vault. I, I've worked with a lot of pole vaulters. Um, and that is so important because you can only take a certain number of jumps in practice. So that's where mental practice comes into play where either between jumps or let's say at the end of practice, visualize yourself making several more attempts. And one time I worked with a elite college pole vaulter who had a mental block at seventeen feet. He was a freshman. And I said, okay, close your eyes and visualize yourself clearing seventeen feet, clearing the bar. And he wasn't able to do that. And so I said, every day, practice yourself doing it. He said, after a while, it became like playing a video game for him. You know, these are like physical skills.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  The more you do it, the better at it you get. And in, and he wasn't able to clear seventeen feet until he was actually able to picture it in his mind first. So I thought that's really interesting.

• 22:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow. That is really interesting. And I, I feel like that could be a great translator for, for people in business as well. When it comes to building a business, launching something, creating something, making a certain amount of income. I think a lot of people, when they don't believe that they deserve to make over a hundred grand or a million dollars, um, they're probably never going to make it. But when they start seeing it happening, and I don't know the exercises you could do, but like seeing yourself creating what you want to create and seeing yourself depositing checks in the bank or some type of act, act like that, maybe, um, that's kind of interesting. I'm visualizing it first.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  I could give you a personal example. When I was writing my book, The Champion's Mind, I actually, you know, this was more spontaneous. I didn't necessarily plan that I was going to do this, but I visualized and I could see it and feel the book in my hand.

• 23:41Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  So before it was even accepted by a publishing company. And so, you know, I wasn't obviously able to look at what the exact cover would look like, but I could, I could, you know, almost with my hands, you know, tactically, tactile, uh, feel the book. And so those kinds of things help. Now you mentioned the law of attraction. There's nothing wrong with visualizing great things, but you also have to have the law of commitment to follow up on it.

• 24:05Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah. You gotta take action once you visualize it.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have to see it, feel it, and then actually do it.

• 24:10Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, I like it. And you talk about some breathing. Actually, before I get into that, the breathing stuff, what tips do you give your athletes to get refocused when they get distracted or they drift off?

• 24:23Speaker 01

  You're gonna get, you're, you're gonna get distracted and you know, whether it's from a mistake or just your mind, or you know, just human nature, minds will wander. Uh, so you need to have a cue word or a key phrase that will get you back on track immediately. And so some of my favorite ones are be all here. So if you're, you know, if you show up to practice, but your head's still in class, or you show up to a meet and you're thinking about maybe what didn't go so well last meet, you gotta tell yourself, be all here. You know, every time your mind starts to drift and you know, or next place, you know, next play will be my best play. Or F it and focus, you know, so you can have some fun phrases as well.

• 25:04Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right. Yeah, next play or, um, leave it behind and just move forward, whatever. Yeah, I like that.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, all the way through is another good one. Um, you know, uh, you know, or just even if, like we mentioned endurance sports, you know, go, go, go, push, push, push. Just real quick little sayings to yourself are important.

• 25:20Lewis Howes?

  To get refocused. Yeah, I like that.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, because when you think about it, you know, if you're not a hundred percent focused, then you're not at full power. So, you know, Michael Phelps says, uh, in interviews, he said, uh, when I'm focused, nothing in the world could stop me. And so if you're focused, you know, I like your chances. If you're distracted, you're gonna be defeated.

• 25:41Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, yeah, interesting. Or you may, if, or if the other team is less focused, then you may win, but it's not gonna look pretty.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 25:50Lewis Howes?

  Something like that, yeah. Let's talk about breathing now. There's people, I don't feel like enough people understand the importance of breathing and, uh, practicing breathing, actually, not just breathing in general to, uh, on autopilot, but practicing it deliberately. And on the chapter on, on breath control, there's an interesting quote that says, uh, your breathing determines whether you are at your best or whether you are at a disadvantage from an, an author and teacher on breathing practices. Now, why is breathing so important for athletes and just, you know, high performing individuals in general?

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Under perceived pressure, we tend to hold our breath. And then, you know, obviously, we're not going to have the oxygen to our system that we need, but also our muscle tension will increase. And muscle tension is the number one enemy in sports. And so if you're a swimmer, you're going to go slower. If you're a pole vaulter, you're not going to jump as high. So, deep breathing helps to clear our mind of, you know, whether stress or expectations, those kind of things. But then it also relaxes our body. So, I think it's important to have either a meditation practice or just throughout your day to take a deep breath and notice whether you're breathing easily and deeply.

• 27:09Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, okay. And you have a, you have kind of three simple steps to taking deep breath and centering your breathing. And I wanted to see if we could actually, you could maybe coach me through this, if you, if you're interested in doing that, so people can kind of like follow along as an example.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:25Lewis Howes?

  Do you know?

• 27:26Speaker 01

  So, yep.

• 27:27Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  So, the 15-second centering breath is what I call it. And I want you to go ahead and breathe in through the nose, if you can, for the count of one, two, three, four, and five. And go ahead and hold it for one and two. And then breathe out through the mouth for a count of one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, and eight. How was it?

• 27:57Lewis Howes?

  It was hard to breathe in that, that long and then hold it.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  It's a big breath, isn't it?

• 28:01Lewis Howes?

  It's a big breath.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and usually what we do is we think we're breathing deeply. So, it's funny, I've had some athletes share with me, you know, when I bring up the topic, like, "Oh, I already know about deep breathing." And so my response is, "Let me see your deep breath." And it's a, you know, to be honest, it's a very shallow breath. And so, when we take a full, deep breath, it's not like you're going to be taking a 15-second breath all day long. That would be impossible. But this is just to reboot your, your breathing. But, but a deep breath is a real deep breath. And it's, and it's all the way in and all the way out. And the key is, the exhalation here is a little bit longer, and that's the relaxation response. Most of us, when we think about taking a deep breath, we just think about the inhale. And just taking that big inhalation and that's actually the stressful part.

• 28:48Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Exhalation is the key and that's when I want it to be a little bit longer. Get all that air out and then that really helps you to feel your best. So like a lot of athletes might hyperventilate a little bit and you know, right before competition. And what they're really doing is they're not exhaling enough.

• 29:07Lewis Howes?

  Uh, really?

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 29:09Lewis Howes?

  Quick, quick, they're quick exhaling and inhaling long.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Exactly, and that's what and notice the effect that has on us. So the key is if you're really feeling stress or tension, pressure. Check in with your breathing. Take a big, full breath and then exhale a little bit longer, you know, a couple, couple of seconds longer. Uh, than you inhale and you'll notice right away how helpful it is.

• 29:34Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, I like that a lot.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, one of my favorite, uh, quotes on breathing is, uh, it's an old Chinese proverb. And it says, if you know the art of breathing, you have the strength, wisdom and courage of ten tigers.

• 29:48Lewis Howes?

  Whoa, that's cool.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Not too bad.

• 29:51Lewis Howes?

  Wow, interesting, yeah. What I noticed when I was doing it is I immediately breathe through my chest as opposed to through my diaphragm. Uh, which, you know, I wasn't concentrating on it. So I just went to my natural default, which is breathing through the chest. And it was a stressful, you know, it was, it was challenging at the end. Um, so definitely breathe from the stomach, right?

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, you wanna breathe, you know, think of it more as a belly breath than from the chest. And so even though you're not really breathing from your belly, like you said, you're breathing from your lungs. You're breathing, breathing from your diaphragm. But you wanna push your diaphragm down and it, and your belly starts to extend a little bit. And then when you breathe out, it starts to come back in. So you could almost, one way is to imagine that you're, uh, there's a balloon in your belly. And so you fill up the balloon, give it a color, fill up the balloon, hold it and then let all the air out of the balloon. Uh, but yeah, we have a tendency to either hold our breath or breathe too shallowly from, from the chest.

• 30:48Lewis Howes?

  You say, give it a color?

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, make it a little bit more uh uh more creative and memorable and um you know it adds a little bit to the experience. So you know, if if I'm working with a team and I say uh or you know, individual athletes say, you know, take a big belly breath, you know, picture a balloon and then go ahead and do it, then you know, I kind of a trick question is what color was your balloon? And if they didn't have a color, then you know, maybe they weren't doing it right. So um so giving it a color is pretty good.

• 31:18Lewis Howes?

  What's a good color to use?

• 31:20Speaker 01

  I think blue, anything that's relaxing and calming. So I think light blue, blue, you know, uh uh something reminds you of the ocean, water, I think it's really helpful. Because the neat thing here, it's such a mind-body connection that when you relax your body, you clear your mind. And uh you know, when you're playing your bass, your your mind is like still water. Uh so uh this is a great technique for for being in the right frame of mind.

• 31:47Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Now, is visualization, mental visualization, mental rehearsal, plus breathing, plus meditation, kind of all rap, could it all be kind of the same thing?

• 32:00Speaker 01

  There's a lot of overlap, uh but you could also use them together. So for example, before you visualize, so let's say I'm gonna sit down and visualize myself going through my golf swing or my uh long jump or whatever sports skill, uh you could uh focus on deep breathing for a little bit to kind of get the garbage out of your head, to relax your body, and then go through your visualization routine, you know, or you could meditate in between those two. So um it's really about quieting your mind and relaxing your body, and then really, that's gonna make the imagery even more powerful.

• 32:35Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Okay, cool. But definitely breathing, visualization, meditation, doing some practice daily. I like to do it in the morning and at night, but I would you recommend that doing something daily is gonna support you in being a high performer as an athlete or in business?

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Champions do not leave the mental game to chance or circumstance. So the great thing about this is, in terms of mental training, is it need not be time consuming. So 10, 15 minutes in the morning, or before practice, and/or at night can be really helpful. Also, mental skills and strategies can be used in parallel with what you're already doing. So they don't need to necessarily take up any time at all. So for example, if you're waiting in line at practice to do a drill, go ahead and picture yourself accomplishing it before you actually do it. Or go ahead and take a good centering breath.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Or check in with your body language to make sure that you're standing tall and walking strong. So it doesn't have to be time consuming at all. But yeah, you're right. Doing it on a regular basis is how we really get it down to a science.

• 33:50Lewis Howes?

  Now, let me ask a quick question about this. If I'm in line, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. If I'm in line about to go do a route in practice, and if I think about what I'm gonna do right before I do it, and start getting in my head a little too much, wouldn't that kind of mess me up? Or maybe not keep me in the flow of just stepping up and doing it? Or do you think it would be okay?

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Well, look at, again, it's what works best for you. There's no right way.

• 34:21Lewis Howes?

  Practice it.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  For example, I've worked with NBA players, and some of them like to visualize the ball going into the basket, making their free throw before they shoot it. Other ones say, you know what, I don't really need to do that. I just take my deep breath. So other ones have their routine where they bounce the ball a certain number of times, and they get the feeling in their body of how they want to shoot the ball. So whatever works best for you. I've worked with NFL wide receivers that when the quarterback is calling the play, they're actually visualizing themselves if the ball's coming to them. They're visualizing themselves making the catch.

• 34:53Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay, cool. You talk about, actually something that I do, and I've been doing since I was playing college sports, but also when I transitioned into the business goals and dreams that I had. What I started to do was... I would have a dream or a goal that I wanted to achieve within about a year. And I would actually write it down specifically with the date. And frame it, kind of like a certificate, like it's already been achieved. And I would put it up there on the wall and I would look at it constantly every day and then take the actions. To create that happening, but I would visualize it kind of like you did where you had the book in your hand. You saw it before it was even sold. That's what I would do for different goals.

• 35:34Lewis Howes?

  And do you talk, do you ever talk about that kind of like framing goals or creating like a, an award like it's already happened with what you want to achieve?

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you need to be crystal clear on what you want to accomplish.

• 35:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  And so have a big picture goal or several big picture goals and then use each day to chip away at those goals.

• 35:51Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  But I really like creating a, an environment of excellence around you that prompts you to stay on the right track and a positive track. So I, you know, I think dream boards are great. I think getting a whiteboard. And on a whiteboard, write down some of your favorite quotes and you know, little acronyms like how bad you want it. Um, writing what you want to accomplish. And the thing with, uh, if you write down your goals. And you tell others about it, research has shown that you're thirty percent or around there, you know, it depends on the person in the study and what they're looking at. But thirty percent more likely to accomplish those goals. So rather than if you just keep them in your head and. And, uh, you know, because they could be out of sight, out of mind. So. I think, uh, I think writing your goals down is really helpful. One, this, you reminded me of one, uh, Olympic athlete I worked with.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  And the first session we met, I said, tell me about your goals. And he said, hold on a second. He took his goals out of his wallet. He was on an index card. And he showed me his goals. And so I thought that that was so cool versus some athletes I work with that aren't as accomplished. I might say, what are your goals? And you know, I don't know. And so one of the sayings I really like in sports psychology is, uh, vague goals lead to vague outcomes. So you want to be crystal clear on what you want to accomplish. And that's, it's totally okay to switch around those goals if you need to. You know, depending on, you know, whether your interests change or whether you, you surpass your goals. Um, so, um, so you don't want to get tunnel vision necessarily or get, uh, get rigid about your goals.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  But I do think that you, that writing them down and displaying them. Uh, helps you not to BS yourself, you know, how bad, how bad you really want it? What are you willing to do to, to, to accomplish what you say you want to accomplish?

• 37:34Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. And I like that, you know, I like that you said you can shift your goals at some time if you want to. You don't have to be attached to the outcome because I've seen a lot of people in business be so attached to this one business idea. This goal that they want to launch something or, or and get something to a certain level and it's just not working. And they're trying everything and it's not working and it seems like more stress for them than anything. And it's really the goal just isn't effective. So I don't think it's, you should be afraid to change it. You know, you're not breaking your commitment or you're not failing. It's just, uh, you're shifting your goals.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. And your priorities. And I think that, so you want to have like a Western approach, which is, you know, write down what you want to accomplish. And then maybe, uh, uh, include a little bit of an Eastern approach, more of a Taoist approach that you're open to everything that comes your way.

• 38:20Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm. I like that. I like that.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I think, uh, goals are important. Um, and, um, you know, and, and never settle for those goals. I, I think that one of the things is we sell ourselves too short. Think big, you know, but, but act bigger like we talked about. Um, and, you know, uh, dare to do great things, you know? We get excited about a lot of pro athletes that we might follow or our favorite sports teams. Well, they have big goals and dreams. Why not us?

• 38:48Lewis Howes?

  Right. Yeah. I like that. Um, going into athletes recovery. Uh, you talk about five stages of loss an athlete goes through after an injury. And I wanted to see if you could share these stages because I'm interested to, to talk about it after I've been injured and I've experienced this. And I wonder if you can talk about it.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  Well, injuries are part of sports, as you know, and, and in fact, the first time I worked with an NFL player, this was about 2003. Uh, during my intake interview with him, I asked, you know, if he was dealing with any in- injuries at the time and he laughed and he said, at this level, we're always injured. It's just playing through it. It's just how bad. So, eh, athletes are never at a hundred percent, but uh, in terms of injuries, we tend to go through the, a similar uh, group of stages to uh, to a death or a loss. Um, and so, you know, there might be some shock, um, some denial, you know, it's not as bad as what the doctor said, there's, you know, there's, there could be some anger, you know, why now?

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Why me? Uh, there could be some sadness or depression, you know, I'm never gonna get my game back. And eventually it leads to acceptance, uh, if you go through the stages and, and really by acceptance, I don't mean that you are happy about what happened, but you're gonna make the best of what happened. And so the key with dealing with injuries is to make your injury rehab, your new sport, until you get your game back. Interesting. So it's amazing how many athletes I've worked with that when they're injured, you know, I don't see that same attitude, that same swagger, um, you know, they look like, you know, they've lost all their self-esteem and then when they go to the training room, uh, to rehab, they don't think

• 40:33Speaker 01

  about using visualization or they forget about the importance of self-talk or good body language. Um, so the key is recovering from an injury should be considered a physical challenge, just like your sport. Wow. And so. It becomes the sport. It is your sport, yeah. And so obviously, like we talked about before, if you go to practice, you know, go run through the same reps that your teammates are going through, just in your head. Uh, you know, a lot of times we might think, well, that's not, that's not the same and, you know, well, it's, it's the best you can do and, and it can definitely help. Um, but uh, But dealing with an injury, um, you know, anyone could get injured, but are you going to be

• 41:15Speaker 01

  an all-star and are you going to have a great attitude during the recovery process? And that should be your aim.

• 41:20Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Yeah, you know, I'm a big proponent of gratitude. It's, I ask people constantly, what are they most grateful for on my voicemail? If you want to leave me a message, you have to tell me what you're most grateful for that day, just because I feel like that energy brings, raises all, you know, boats to the highest level or whatever, I guess, right? You talk about some strategies of action to keep gratitude at the forefront of a daily practice. And you also say, you know, gratitude is one of the acts of most successful people. It's what most successful do is they're grateful. Can you talk about some strategies for, for having us be grateful throughout the day?

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you, you want to make sure that you have an attitude of gratitude. Not only to feel your best, but to perform your best. And one athlete recently shared with me, said, uh, he said, you've been really helpful. And I said, well, what's been helpful? And he said, you helped me stay positive in a negative sport. And I think when you really think about it, uh, any competi-, you know, any competitive, you know, or demanding endeavor can be negative because you could always do better. You know, there's always people trying to knock you down. Uh, it takes a lot of hard work and, you know, patience and commitment. And so we have to keep on a positive channel, you know, thought channel during that time. And gratitude is one way to do that.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  So whether once a day or once a week, you know, at the end of the day, at the end of the week, write down, jot down some things that happened, you know, early in the day or early in the week that you really appreciated. So maybe someone complimented you about your work ethic, or maybe, you know, a coach gave you a really good tip that helped you with your mechanics. Uh, or maybe you just heard a, you know, a new song by your favorite band. Uh, and it sounds corny, but it's really powerful. So I remember, uh, at Arizona State University where I worked for a long time with the student athletes there, um, I started saying, you know, well, I gotta, you know, practice what I pe-, uh, preach, I gotta walk the talk. So I started doing a gratitude journal. And I remember just one day I was walking around campus going, wow, this is a beautiful campus.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Bird and, and you know, wow, you know, like, you know, this is just a really pretty place. And so I realized, you know, that I, that I was probably taking the campus for granted. Uh, you know, I was just used to it. And so the attitude of gratitude and having a gratitude journal just takes a few minutes here or there, and it really has a profound impact on your mood. Uh, I think part of it is, you know, I mentioned that sports can be negative, but our brains are hardwired, you know, our brain is hardwired to, uh, to focus on the negative. And that's for survival purposes. So, uh, if you're walking through a jungle and you miss a beautiful rainbow, well, that's not gonna ruin your life. But if you miss the tiger or the lion behind the bush, you know, uh, that might be the last thing you see. So,

• 44:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  I think we're, you know, we're usually thinking about, well, what we didn't accomplish or what didn't go well, those kind of things. So I think that the, the attitude of gratitude approach really helps you stay on a positive track because things are a lot better than usually we give them self credit for.

• 44:20Lewis Howes?

  Right. No. Whenever, you know, and I don't, I don't think that's, I would, I would think you'd probably agree with, you know, if you have an experience that's sucks, or you get injured, or, um, stuff just isn't going your, your way, I think you can still experience your experience, experience your feelings, don't mask them and just say, oh, everything's okay, I'm grateful. But, um, would you agree to that? Like, it's okay, it's okay to at least experience how you're feeling, but not to be stuck on it forever?

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, uh, no one's, you know, no one's positive all the time.

• 44:51Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Um, and, and I don't know if you'd really want that. I think the key is to be vitally engaged in life. Um, and if you are, you know, doing the things you value most and giving it your best effort, um, if you do that, then, then you're gonna be happier more often, but you're not gonna be happy all the time. Uh, and, and when something does happen, you know, if you, if you lose a tough game, well, then it should feel like someone punched you in the stomach, it's gonna hurt for a little bit. But I totally agree with you, don't pitch a tent in those feelings, you know? Don't stay stuck. So, uh, feel what you need to feel, talk about what you want and need to talk about. And then move on.

• 45:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  And part of that is having a debriefing process. So in the book, I talk about, you know, after, you know, it could be a tournament, or a competition, or even the season, you know, what went well? You know, a lot, it's amazing how many times I ask athletes, you know, tell me what you did really well last competition. Oh, I didn't do anything perfectly. Well, I didn't say perfect, I said what went well. And, you know, as we talk, they start saying, oh, okay, I did this, okay, and I did that, okay. You know, give yourself credit where credit's due. And then maybe just pick one or two things that didn't go well. And how am I gonna turn those around? How am I gonna work on those so that I do better even next time? So what I find with most, most high achievers, and, you know, and most serious athletes, and, you know, business professionals, is I think they're afraid of doing that because

• 46:10Speaker 01

  they think that, well, if I'm too nice to myself, if I give myself credit for things that I did well, then I'm gonna settle for less than my best. And I've never seen that. I think when we start giving ourselves credit for what we did, what we do well, then we're even more motivated to keep doing it. And so, I think it's human nature, though, to, when we're doing super well, is to rest on our laurels a little bit. And what I've found with champions is, the better they do, the harder they start working. And they never think I've had it totally made. So, I don't, you know, so the key is, when things aren't going well, is, you know, have the confidence in yourself and the patience to, to move through it. And then when things are going really well, step on the gas, you know, keep

• 46:53Speaker 01

  working really hard. Because there's that tendency to say, uh, you know, I think I made it. Well, that's not gonna last very long. You gotta keep gunning for it. So I love when coaches say, hey, we can't win, you know, we, we're not repeating. Uh, we're not gonna try to, to, uh, defend our title, we're gonna try to win a new one. And I think that's kind of the attitude I'm getting, you know, that I'm, I'm trying to, to, uh, talk about right there. Because you're always gunning for something positive.

• 47:19Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Interesting. Now, I got a couple of questions left, but this is, uh, you know, I love this book, so I want everyone to go get it. Um, but you talk about becoming a champion sleeper. And I've had a, an expert sleeping, a sleep expert come on and talk about the importance of sleep for productivity, for living longer, for, you know, getting bigger, faster, stronger, everything. Now, why is it important to be a, a champion sleeper if you wanna be a champion in, in sports or in life?

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Resting well is mandatory and everyone works hard. You know, when you start getting into the elite high school, college, you know, pro Olympic athletes, they're all going to work hard for the most part. But I think one thing that can help separate the top from the, you know, from all others is they balance the hard training with regeneration and good recovery. And so what you end up doing if you're burning the candle at both ends, you're going to wear down. It's kind of like leaving your favorite, you know, if you had your favorite race car and you left it running all the time, it's going to eventually break down. So you gotta, you gotta turn it off. You gotta take out the key from the ignition and give it time to rest and recover. And then you start it up again the next day.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  So, you know, the goalie for, for the US Olympic or the US World Cup team, he mentioned that he takes an hour nap every day and between, between training sets and then goes to bed by 10 o'clock every night. So the best, and I think-

• 48:47Lewis Howes?

  Was it Tim Howard or?

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Tim Howard, yeah. And I think that, you know, and he, he talked about how in, you know, just recently in interviews that how important his rest and recovery is, especially as he's getting older as a player. And so the best athletes in the world are very, very serious about protecting their sleep and their rest and recovery time. And, you know, and even having some time where they just shut off their brain. So they play video games or they just hang out with friends. Just so they're not grinding every second of every day. But with athletes that aren't getting enough sleep, usually what I find is they're more likely to get sick. You know, their body starts to, you know, their, their physiological defenses start to break down a little bit. But then also they're more likely to get injured.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  So, you know, because they go out on the field and they don't have the reaction time they normally have if they're fatigued. So, um, so you want to make sure that you work hard, but you balance that with resting well.

• 49:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And in the book, you've got a whole page on some tips on becoming a champion sleeper. So I'll let people get it to get that information.

• 49:54Lewis Howes?

  What's a, you know, last couple of questions here. What's a simple game plan that everyone can follow to have a champion's mind? Whether they're an athlete or have a big dream in business, what's, what is a simple game plan?

• 50:06Speaker 01

  I think the thing, in the book I have a mental game checklist. So what I would recommend is go through the mental skills and strategies that I mentioned. So whether it's enjoying, you know, enjoyment, whether it's confidence, focus, and rate yourself on a one to 10 or one to 100 scale, and pick out what you're doing well, and how can I continue doing that well? And then maybe select one or two key areas for growth. And then decide I'm really gonna hit those areas, and I'm gonna have daily goals to follow through with it, and that's gonna help you get to where you want to be. So for example, if, let's say that you, your body language isn't very good,

• 50:51Speaker 01

  and you've heard that from teammates and so on, then decide for the next 21 days, or whatever it is, that I'm gonna act like a, every time I show up to practice, I'm gonna act like a champion. And that means, you know, my head's up, you know, big smile on my face. If I don't make a great play, I'm gonna, you know, clap my hands, slap my thigh, and say, "Next play, best play," you know? But I'm always gonna look like I'm winning. And I love what Nick Saban, the head football coach at University of Alabama, he tells his players that if your body language is down, you're telling the other team, "Beat me now." Wow. So body language is key, and our thoughts and feelings and behaviors are all interconnected. So if you act like a champion, it's easier to think and feel like a champion. But pick some of these mental skills,

• 51:36Speaker 01

  you know, I discuss them in great detail in the book, and then decide, you know what, for the next, you know, X number of days, you know, write it on your whiteboard, or, you know, put it on a sticky note, and say, you know what, in addition to what I'm gonna already do at practice today, I'm gonna work on my breathing, or my body language, or my self-talk, or my visualization. And it's amazing, just in a few days, a few weeks of doing this, that it could make a significant positive change.

• 52:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow. And what was that you said earlier? You said thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are all interconnected? Is that what you said?

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. So if your body language sucks, then there's probably some stinking thinking going on inside your head. And, you know, if you're not feeling what, you know, like if you're feeling angry, sad, depressed, well, you're definitely not having positive thoughts and your body language probably doesn't look too good either. So, you know, and physiologically too, if you have butterflies in your stomach, you're probably thinking, you know, you're getting, you're losing perspective and worrying about the outcome before you even get there. So it's kind of like four wheels on a race car. You know, when one moves, the other ones move. So that's where you always have an opportunity to work on one area. So if you're not feeling good, check in with your thinking.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  If your thinking isn't going too well, well, then fake it till you make it by having good body language.

• 52:57Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Man, I love this stuff. Last two questions. First one is, what are you most grateful for recently?

• 53:05Speaker 01

  I'm really grateful for the positive feedback I've received about the book. I put a lot of effort into it and I wanted it to be something where people actually felt like, you know, this is helpful. You know, I got a bunch of ideas or, or like you even said, I'm appreciative of what you said, that this reaffirms some of the things that I was thinking about. And so that's something, and I'm always grateful for my wife and my daughter. So it's the best of both worlds kind of family and, and, and work.

• 53:35Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Final question, before we get to the final question, where can we connect with you online? I'll have all this linked up with the show notes that I'll talk about here in a second. But where can they get the book? What's your website?

• 53:49Speaker 01

  The book is The Champion's Mind. It's available wherever books are sold. And you can get it on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Powell's Bookstore in Portland, Oregon, all over the place. So online, in person, and then my website is goldmedalmind.net. And on Twitter, it's @goldmedalmind. So Gold Medal Mind and The Champion's Mind are synonymous.

• 54:15Lewis Howes?

  Very cool. Okay. And I'll make sure to link up everything here in the show notes here in just a second. But what, for the final question, that's what I ask all my guests. It's what's your definition of greatness?

• 54:27Speaker 01

  My definition of greatness would be peace of mind. Where, when your head hits the pillow at night, did I give it my all? Did I have a, you know, complete effort and a great attitude? Doing the things that I value most. And if you can do that, you know, your body might be really sore from a, you know, a tough day, you know, at the job or on the field. But if you could say that to yourself, uh, and you have that peace of mind when your head hits the pillow, and the pillow is your best friend every night, then to me, uh, that's greatness.

• 54:56Lewis Howes?

  Great definition. Jim, thank you so much for coming on. Thanks so much for the work that you do to support athletes and individuals to become champion.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Thanks so much, Lewis. I love your show and it's been an honor to be a guest on it.

• 55:13Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode and make sure to go ahead and go back to the show notes over at lewishouse.com/88 to learn more about Jim and all the things that we covered here today, uh, in the show notes. LewisHowes.com/88. Again, big shout out to our sponsor, 99designs.com/greatness. You're gonna get that free $99 upgrade for the power pack. It's really to support you in getting in front of better designers to give you a better chance of a brand and design that you want. So check out 99designs.com/greatness to get that $99 power pack upgrade.

• 55:55Lewis Howes?

  Again, guys, I'm so appreciative of your time and your energy for coming on and listening to these episodes. If you have yet to subscribe, please subscribe to the podcast over at iTunes.com/SchoolofGreatness. Leave us a review on what you like, what you didn't like. Uh, you know, feel free to share your thoughts and your feedback is always welcome here. And, uh, share this with your friends. Go ahead and leave a comment over at LewisHowes.com/88 on what you thought about this. What was the most powerful thing you got out of this interview? And, uh, share it with your friends over on Twitter and Facebook. And of course, post a picture over on Instagram of where you're listening to the show right now and tag me @lewishouse or hashtag #schoolofgreatness.

• 56:37Lewis Howes?

  Super pumped about all the interviews we have coming next. You're gonna want to make sure to get on these and listen to them ASAP. They're incredible, they're inspiring human beings, and I'm bringing them to you soon. So you guys know what time it is, it's time to go out there and do something great.