Best of Question Time: How do I escape a joint account? Save hard, or spend more on my family? Top tips for beginner investors

We have picked more of our favourite questions you’ve asked Martin for another special best-of episode of our Question Time podcast. In this edition: How do I escape a joint account? Save hard, or spend more on my family? Plus top tips for beginner investors and a success story on how to explain making interest on savings with your children. If you want to ask Martin a question, you now can! His Question Time podcast lets you ask Martin absolutely anything and everything (within reason!). So, if you’ve always wanted to know his favourite paper size, what prescription he has in his glasses, or have a very complicated question about your finances, email it to [email protected] mailto:[email protected].

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:06Speaker 01

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• 1:45Speaker 03

  So you get yourself a cash iser and you take your cash iser and you take your three points at the back of the cash iser and you put the cash iser in.

• 1:49Speaker 04

  Do I stop putting so much emphasis on paying off the debt and spend a little bit more money spending time with my wife and my son, making memories?

• 1:59Speaker 05

  This is not the first time I've heard of this scenario. It was like a revelation.

• 2:04Speaker 06

  Hello and welcome to the cunningly named The Martin Lewis Podcast. I do wonder what that's going to be about. And this is a special best of question time episode where the curator of questions himself, Professor Sir Matthew Burnham Esquire, has chosen his favourite questions that you, our Esquires, extremely savvy questioners, have asked me on absolutely anything and everything, open brackets within reason, closed brackets. In this best of question time episode, you've asked me, how do I escape a joint account? Should I continue to save hard, overpay my mortgage and invest, or spend a bit more enjoying life with my young family? What are your top tips for beginner investors? We have a lovely success story involving a nine-year-old who's doing jobs for her parents for pocket money.

• 2:49Speaker 06

  I remember that, it really is very nice. Plus, do I find the dead ringer's impression of me funny? Play the theme tune.

• 3:10Speaker 06

  I've got an email from Greg here, he sent it to [email protected]. He says, hello, Martin, Matt, no Martin, no Matt. I think he had a bit of a panic of who to address it to.

• 3:23Martin Lewis?

  Fine, your question's being read out, you're good, don't worry Greg.

• 3:26Speaker 06

  He says, I have a question on behalf of a friend of my wife's. She, the friend, split from her long time partner recently. They had separate bank accounts but a joint account for bills, et cetera, which had an overdraft facility. The account was at zero but hadn't been closed and was still registered to the house that they shared where she still lives. Recently, she's noticed that the account has gone overdrawn with her ex spending money on his debit card. She repaid this, but before she could close the account or get herself removed, he spent more money to the extent that she doesn't have enough money to clear it. What can she do about this as the overdraft is obviously costing her per day? Can she get the bank to stop any future transactions from his card? She's panicking over this and initially the bank said there was nothing they could do as he has the right to use the account.

• 4:11Speaker 06

  However, it's quite clear he isn't going to contribute any money towards clearing the overdraft.

• 4:17Martin Lewis?

  This is not the first time I've heard of this scenario and it is a very difficult scenario. And it's something that the Economic Abuse Charity looks into. Now, I'm not saying in this case, you know, because let's be plain, in some cases, economic abuse is a form of domestic abuse. That's not what we're saying in this case at all. But this has really serious repercussions on people, especially if they can't talk to their ex-partner. Now, the actual rule is, it depends on the bank account, I'm afraid to say. Some banks will allow one person to close a joint account, but then typically that's where it is a want to sign joint account, while others require you both to complete a form and submit it. So the simplest thing is if there is still an amicable relationship, or at least a cordial

• 5:01Martin Lewis?

  relationship between your friend and her ex-partner, that they should have the conversation and they should agree some formula and agree to close the account together. I'm suspecting from the way that you've written this, that is not going to happen.

• 5:16Martin Lewis?

  Now, you can usually remove yourself from a joint account without permission from the other party, but that's only if the account is in credit, so that's not going to work here. Which makes me think probably the strongest thing that she could ask to do at this point, and you're not going to like this, and I find it uncomfortable that I haven't got a better solution, is that she could ask for the account to be frozen. Now, that wouldn't deal with the existing debt, but it should stop more transactions. I think what she should do is she should call the bank again, tell them that she's feeling vulnerable in this situation because she's disempowered from her finances and doesn't know what to do and would like to know if they have someone she can talk to about her options to try and extricate herself from this situation, which is not a good

• 6:01Martin Lewis?

  one and what her rights are. If she feels she isn't being dealt with adequately and she's notified the bank, then I'd do it as a formal complaint. I don't like what I'm saying, I just need to be honest. I don't like that I'm having to come up with this type of solution because it's not a solution. She needs to make a formal complaint and then take them to the ombudsman that they have not followed the consumer duty, that debt is being run up in her name, that she's asked them not to allow it to be run up and it's continued to be run up after she has notified them. And I would put it as a consumer duty. I wish I had a stronger answer. I think, I'm sorry for doing it as a reflective lesson, because that really is no help to your friend whatsoever.

• 6:44Martin Lewis?

  But the reflective lesson is only have joint accounts with someone you absolutely trust and is there for the long term. And if it's not going to happen, then get yourself out of it before that you're splitting up. And just as an afterthought, you are hearing me right subtly. If she feels vulnerable or that the situation is being abused in this context, then being classed like that tends to give the bank more powers to act. Now, clearly, I'm not suggesting that anyone pretends they are being abused. Abuse is a very wide term. But clearly, her ex-partner is abusing financial trust by spending money and building up a debt. I presume she has asked him not to when they shouldn't be doing so. So the definitions are pretty difficult here. But I think it is a problem that we have with joint bank accounts.

• 7:28Martin Lewis?

  For me, it seems that you should have a unilateral right to close down a joint bank account or at least remove yourself from the joint bank account because in these type of eventualities. That doesn't mean that you abrogate responsibility for debts built up before you did so, because that's the nature of a joint bank account. But there should be a point where you could say, I don't want to be linked with this person in a bank anymore and that should stop. And you should have a right, but as far as I'm aware, you don't have a right. Although, the argument on this is that consumer duty that you now have, that you could argue under the consumer duty, potentially they should do it. But that's a tough one to fight. On the back of that question, I'm going to speak to the Economic Abuse Charity to see if they've got anything that I don't have and I will cover it in a future week.

• 8:14Martin Lewis?

  Right, so I presume it's that time in the programme where we have a caller. The reason I presume that is because of timings, we're actually having to record this caller before we do anything else. So you, of course, are going to put it in the show at the point where a caller should come in. So I feel pretty certain that I can say we're at that time of the show where you're going to put in the caller, aren't you Matt?

• 8:31Speaker 06

  Nah, let's do a read instead. Just kidding, Dan is in Maidstone and he is on the line. Hi Dan.

• 8:38Martin Lewis?

  Hello Dan. Hello Dan, hello, what can we do for you? Lovely to hear from you.

• 8:42Speaker 04

  Thank you. So I'm sure it's a question you get all the time, but my good interest rate on my mortgage is coming to an end. After a five-year fix, it's coming to an end in October. That interest rate is currently just below 1%.

• 8:58Martin Lewis?

  Well done you.

• 8:59Speaker 04

  Thank you very much. And obviously, we're looking at interest rates of around 5% when we renew. Over the last five years, because the interest rate on our mortgage has been so low, we've been putting extra money into a cash iser.

• 9:18Speaker 04

  Which has been earning anywhere between four and 3.6%. Um, so my question is, do I go ahead as intended and throw the lump sum that we've grown over the last five years at the mortgage at the point of renewal? Um, or do we look at stocks and shares, a stocks and shares ISA in the hope that we can grow, outpace the 5% of the new mortgage? Or do I stop putting so much emphasis on paying down the mortgage, paying off the debt, and spend a little bit more money, spending time with my wife and my son, making memories?

• 10:01Martin Lewis?

  Well, first of all, what a lovely question and well done. You know, financial security and stability is really important and, and we shouldn't, you know, many people think of money as just a money issue, but money isn't. Money is a core, crucial wellbeing issue. And the fact that you've managed to build up this pot of money to reduce your future mortgage, to give you more financial security for yourself and your family, all of that adds to your wellbeing. Now, it's not something that makes you happy, but it takes away some of the anxiety and stresses and the misery that comes with life. I always think of money, money doesn't make you happy, but it takes away many of the negatives. And I think you've done that and I think you and your family can be very proud of yourself. So let, let me try and, I, I think I've got the question.

• 10:43Martin Lewis?

  It's basically pay off the mortgage or invest or have a bit more fun and spend a bit more. So let's, let's do the, let's do the first, the, the easy bits, the bits that's in square brackets in my head, which is paying off the mortgage as opposed to saving, just saving rather than investing. Well, you, first of all, you've been doing it right. And just for those people who are listening, because your mortgage rate was lower than the interest rate you could earn in savings, you were absolutely right to build up your savings rather than overpay the mortgage because you could earn, because you know, a thousand pounds at 4% in savings will ignore tax, gains you £40 a year. A thousand pounds on a mortgage costing you 1% only costs you £10 a year.

• 11:25Martin Lewis?

  So you were £30 per thousand pounds better off saving than overpaying the mortgage. So you've done that right, but now the mortgage rate is going to be higher than you can earn in savings. You want to reduce the amount on your mortgage. I don't know, and I'm not going to ask you exact numbers because I don't particularly want you to give them out in the podcast. Do you know what a loan to value is on your mortgage?

• 11:45Speaker 04

  Yes, I do.

• 11:46Martin Lewis?

  Is your loan to value below 60%? Are you borrowing less than 60% of the house's value?

• 11:51Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 11:52Martin Lewis?

  So overpaying the mortgage isn't going to help you get a cheaper mortgage. Generally that only works up to 60% loan to value. So we can factor that one out in this decision. Let's, let's move to the next stage, which is, so overpaying the mortgage is definitely right compared to savings because you're going to be at a 5% rate and you can't get that in savings, if that's what you're saying, the, the rate that you can get. I'm sure you've been to a mortgage broker, you're sounding like you're someone who's on top of it and is very financially savvy. So I'm, and I'm framing my answers in the context of, of thinking of you that way. If you're not, speak now, but you, you know what you're doing roughly, don't you?

• 12:27Speaker 04

  Yes, I do.

• 12:28Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, good, good. And it helps me to know that. So the next question is one of risk. If we think of overpaying the mortgage as a certain 5% return, the question is, what type of return would you want to look at in order for it to be worth you not getting the certainty in you taking some risk? Where's your head on that?

• 12:49Speaker 04

  Well, I'd be looking for a seven or eight percent return, um, which I am not convinced with my knowledge of stocks and shares that I would be able to do that consistently or comfortably.

• 13:03Martin Lewis?

  The balance against that, and I, you know, just to, just to play the other side is, it sounds to me like you're probably going to have this mortgage cleared in what, seven, eight, nine years?

• 13:12Speaker 04

  Uh, if I've done my math correctly, it should be five years, yeah.

• 13:16Martin Lewis?

  Okay. So you're going to have your mortgage cleared in five years. And with investing, the longer you invest for, if things go right and there's no certainty and you know all that, the better. So starting off some investing sooner may well be good, you know? And in terms of what you do, you know, the standard thing is a global tracker, uh, put some money in a global tracker that's got a broad spread of investments. We had the investment podcast a couple of weeks ago where you can hear about that in more detail and go for nice, easy tracker funds at the start where you've got a really broad spread of investment. And over the long run, there is a decent chance that you will get 7% on those. Of course you may not, of course you may lose money, but I would say with the amounts that you've got, and, and certainly listening to you, I would be looking at overpaying

• 14:00Martin Lewis?

  your mortgage, but I wouldn't be saying it is a binary thing that you should only overpay your mortgage. I think there is certainly room for you to maybe take 20% of that, that's an arbitrary number, not a suggestion, 20% of that and start to invest in stocks and shares. Or in, obviously in a broad spread of funds, we're talking not individual shares where the risk is high. Um, where, where would your instinct go? Because this is your decision, not mine.

• 14:22Speaker 04

  Well, my instinct is that I wanted to pay down the mortgage as much as I could, retain in enough for an emergency fund, as, as you always advise.

• 14:32Martin Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 14:33Speaker 04

  Um, and, and at that point, probably start drip feeding a percentage of what we are currently putting away into savings, some into a, a, a overpaying the mortgage additionally, and some into a stocks and shares ISA.

• 14:47Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, I mean, I think, why, I would, why don't you dip your toe in? I don't know, what, what would a dipping your toe in amount that you wouldn't worry about too much be?

• 14:56Speaker 04

  Uh, probably a hundred pounds a month, something like that.

• 15:01Martin Lewis?

  So here's a suggestion for you, and again, I have to be very careful, I'm not telling you to do anything, right? Why don't you start, because you're worried about your lack of knowledge, but you sound to me like somebody who is capable of gaining the knowledge over time. So why don't you start by drip feeding a hundred pounds in a month into a stocks and shares ISA? Yeah. Start doing that now and use that both as an investment in its own right, but also as an educative process for yourself in future, for once you're going to have more money to be able to do this with. How does that sound?

• 15:30Speaker 04

  It sounds good. My, my only fear is that I, I did start drip feeding some money into a stocks and shares ISA, uh, and of course the, the war kicked off and, and that money sharply went down.

• 15:42Martin Lewis?

  But, but you know, the, we, we, you've got it, you can't, you've got to close your eyes to that. You're talking about money you're putting away that you're not going to touch for five, six years. If you, if you look, the worst thing you can do, if you've got single, simple investments in stocks and shares is look at it every day. I mean, it's terrible for you. You know, look at it once a year and remember it's only, the, the only prices that count, it will ignore dividends for a second, is the price you buy at and the price you sell at. Everything else in the middle is irrelevant. So, you know, volatility happens in the world. I think we should go on to the next one, which I think is probably the most interesting bit of all, and I love your question. Thank you so much, Dan, for coming on, which is, should you live life a little bit more? How old are your kids?

• 16:21Speaker 04

  I've got a three-year-old son who's going to be starting school in September.

• 16:25Martin Lewis?

  Okay, that's how, how lovely. Um, look, they grow up really quick. Mine's 13 now, I cannot believe it. They, you know, everybody says it to you, it's so true. That's not financial information, it's just true. They grow up so much more quickly than you can possibly imagine. And I don't think there's anything wrong with someone who's in a stable financial position saying, maybe I don't put every single penny away. I mean, it's interesting, we have money personalities out there. There are some people who are terrible and never look after the futures, and there are some people who actually restrict their lives by being too overly focused on the finance. And it is me saying that. You know, my underlying philosophy of what I do, the whole idea of saving money is not

• 17:06Martin Lewis?

  to stop people spending, it's so that you get maximum utility from the money that you've got, so that you minimize the cost of the things where you're not seeing gain from, you know, paying your bills. You, you want them to be as cheap as possible because you don't get happiness from them being bigger, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't spend on something that you enjoy and that you can afford and is going to make your life happy. So I think if you, I'm, I'm trying to, reading between the lines, it sounds to me like you've been, you know, pretty tight and controlled over the finances while you've been doing this for the last five years. Is that fair?

• 17:37Speaker 04

  That, that, yeah, that's a fair assumption.

• 17:39Martin Lewis?

  And, well, you've done incredibly well. And I think if you had maybe saved, you know, five, 10% less than you had, you would have still done incredibly well. And you maybe, if that will give you, and it will give you genuine, real enjoyment and time with your child, then I don't think you should feel guilty if that's what you choose to do. And I suspect that your question is because you sort of want to do that, but you're worried you're doing a bad thing for the long term. And, and it's what I call a permission question. So if, if I'm right, and it is a permission question, if I'm wrong, and I hope it's not patronizing, but if I'm right and it is a permission question, then you definitely have my permission to do it a little bit, because I don't see, you, you've done so

• 18:24Martin Lewis?

  well. Is that why you were really asking, if you're honest?

• 18:27Speaker 04

  That is definitely part of it, and it's, it's, uh, my and my wife's priorities not aligning. My, my priorities were to, to save up as much as we could whilst we had the good interest rate, uh, in order to get rid of that anxiety. She is much more in favour of making memories and, and living life.

• 18:45Martin Lewis?

  You, you have done incredibly well, and it sounds to me like you will continue to do incredibly well. And if you can increase the happiness in your life by doing, putting 10% less money aside, but you're still putting lots of money aside, and you're still overpaying the mortgage, and you're still putting that money, which I think you have the room to do by the sound of it, then I, I think you could probably get a bit more happiness by just loosening up a bit on it.

• 19:07Speaker 04

  I think that's very good advice. Thank you very much.

• 19:10Martin Lewis?

  And, and I'm saying that, which hopefully you, I, I know what's going on here. I can, there's guilt, there's worry and guilt and stress, and I just want to get it right, and I just want, I think, I think you're pretty comfortable. I think you can do it by the sound of it. And, and just to say to listeners, I have a written question from Dan in front of me that he sent in that includes some numbers that I'm not giving you, which is why I'm saying some things that you might think, how does he know? Okay, I think you've done well.

• 19:38Speaker 04

  Thank you. Thank you very much.

• 19:40Martin Lewis?

  And I wish you good luck, and I wish you and your wife and your son a lot of happiness as well as lots of wonderful financial security too. Bravo to you.

• 19:47Speaker 04

  Appreciate it. Thanks very much.

• 19:50Martin Lewis?

  So we've got a caller for the next question, as is the itinerary, as I understand it. We're joined by Natalie in Gosport, and you have a question about junior ISAs. Hello, Natalie.

• 20:02Speaker 05

  Hello, hi, thank you for having me on the show.

• 20:03Martin Lewis?

  Pleasure.

• 20:04Speaker 05

  I do have a question please, and I'm wondering if you can help me out. So I have recently opened a junior stocks and shares ISA. I have a nine-year-old daughter and I'm currently investing thirty pounds a month. So I've just done two months at the moment, so I'm going very slow.

• 20:21Martin Lewis?

  That's good. And you're doing what's called, you know, that's called drip feeding. Do you know about that?

• 20:26Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 20:26Martin Lewis?

  Perfect.

• 20:27Speaker 05

  I do know about it because I've followed you, yeah?

• 20:29Martin Lewis?

  Okay, good. So I'll explain it to everyone else. So when you're investing and you put money into the markets, you can either, if you've got a chunk of money you want to put in, you can either put it all in at once and then it's all crystallized on that day. So whatever price you're buying the fund at on that particular day, that's the price you buy it and it could go up and down from that point. So that's slightly increasing your volatility. Or you can do what they call dollar cost averaging, or here in the UK we'll call it pound cost averaging, which is where you say, well, I'm going to put that same amount of money in, but I'm going to do it over a year. So therefore I sort of smooth out the vagaries. If it goes up and I buy on a high bit and then it comes down, well, while I might have lose out on the money I put in last month, I'm now buying at a cheaper price this month. And it smoothed it all out. So it's a great way to start. Do carry on with your question.

• 21:13Speaker 05

  Okay, thank you. So I realize with the amount I've got invested at the moment that the value can go up and down. Uh, but my question is, if the stocks and shares value goes down, will it impact only my investment percentage or will it impact the total that I've invested, the entire investment?

• 21:33Martin Lewis?

  I'm not quite sure I understand your question. Forgive me. Can you, can you explain what you're thinking a bit more?

• 21:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely. So if I put in, I've put in thirty pounds a month.

• 21:43Martin Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 21:44Speaker 05

  Uh, for two months, I've got sixty pounds in there at the moment.

• 21:46Martin Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 21:47Speaker 05

  And I have had a little check and it's up to sixty-three pounds total, which is fantastic. It's gone up. But as I know, investments can go up and down.

• 21:58Martin Lewis?

  Not only can, will, they will go up and down on a short term.

• 22:03Speaker 05

  All right. Would I lose the, the sixty pounds that I've put in? Or would I lose, would I potentially lose, say, the entire thing, which could be a whole sixty-three?

• 22:16Martin Lewis?

  Okay. So once your money goes into a fund, the value of its fund is its value. What you paid for it is irrelevant. So there's no division of the sixty and the sixty-three, if you like. The fact you put sixty in is irrelevant. You now have an asset worth sixty-three pounds. Now, when you're investing, the value can go up and down. So if you had a single share, if you'd bought a share in one company, let's say, well, that company could go bust. And if it went bust, you would lose all your money. Simple. So the whole sixty-three pounds would go. Equally, if you bought in a single share, it could suddenly be the next stock market darling and go up a hundred times in value.

• 22:58Martin Lewis?

  So your sixty-three pounds would suddenly become worth six thousand three hundred pounds. But I'm hoping if you've been listening to me as a beginner investor for your child, you don't have a share, you have a fund.

• 23:11Speaker 05

  Oh, I do. Sorry. That's my terminology. Yeah.

• 23:14Martin Lewis?

  So, so can you tell me what your fund is?

• 23:18Speaker 05

  Yeah. Do you want me to name the, uh, the provider?

• 23:20Martin Lewis?

  Well, just, just, just the types good generally, you know, is it?

• 23:23Speaker 05

  It's a Vanguard, something Vanguard. I know that.

• 23:27Martin Lewis?

  Is it a global tracker or a UK tracker? A global tracker, perfect. I had a feeling it would because it sounds like you've listened to the pod. So I'm presuming that you're actually in the MSCI World Index, which was not recommended by me as regulatory reasons, means I can't do that by our independent financial advisor we had on the podcast, which was Ed Marshall. And that has about thirteen hundred constituent firms from around twenty-three countries, though it's heavily weighted in America. So you've got that spread, that diversity of different shares across the world. So while nothing is impossible, it is absolutely incredibly unlikely for you to lose all of the money. Because you've got two thousand two hundred shares in there.

• 24:11Martin Lewis?

  And what your fund is doing is it's basically giving you a balanced average of what's happened to all of those shares. Now, the advantage of that is unlike you buy an individual share, the company can go bust. Well, even if one of those companies went bust, you wouldn't lose all your money. And in fact, because it's an index, if one company starts to shrink, if it's, as it's measuring the biggest companies, that would just drop out of the index and a new company would go into the index. And it's, you know, just computerized trying to manage it. The other side to that is you're never going to get that sort of tenfold in five weeks, stock market darling, everything's gone up type of return. You've done something to spread the risk. So technically, the answer is all of your sixty-three pounds is at risk

• 24:54Martin Lewis?

  because that's just the markets. But because you've got a broad spread of fund, what you've done to mitigate that risk is you've diversified. You've got your lots and lots of tiny little eggs in that basket. And so if one of those broke, it's not such a big deal because you hope some of the others are going to grow anyway. So the technical answer is all the money in there at any point is at risk. But risk can also mean growth too. So I hope I've explained it. Are you understanding? Have I got, I've got through the point?

• 25:24Speaker 05

  Yes, absolutely. I, I wasn't quite sure, but I think the way you, uh, laid it out and explained it now has settled in my mind. That is good. Thank you.

• 25:35Martin Lewis?

  Can I give you another tip? Your daughter's nine. So this is money that you're locking away for at least nine years, which is perfect time period. So it's money you can afford to lose, not that I hope you do. And it's money that you're locking away for at least nine years.

• 25:51Martin Lewis?

  I wouldn't be looking at the price that often. There, there lies madness, right? Because as I always say with investing, there are only four things that matter. The price you buy at, any income it gives you and that type of global return, you'll probably get some income each year. It'll put those and they'll be reinvested and it'll buy you more shares. The price you sell at and inflation. So if you look day by day, and this is what I said earlier, it will drop in price. There will be days it drops in price. There will be months it drops in price. But what you're looking at is over this near ten-year period, if we track this back over the last ten years, well, if you'd put that money in ten years ago, you would have three times what you put in now. And what we're hoping is you'll have something similar over the next ten years.

• 26:33Martin Lewis?

  But during specific months of that, you may end up with less money than you did the previous month. And so you sort of, that can play on your mind a little bit. This is a long-term thing. You're putting in thirty pounds a month. It's money you can afford to lose, not that I hope you will. And therefore there's a bit of, there's a bit of just close your eyes for a while, if you know what I mean.

• 26:55Speaker 05

  Yes, I know. I'm going to resist the temptation to look anymore.

• 26:59Martin Lewis?

  I mean, listen, hopefully things will be good and it will go up, but there's no guarantees. And of course, you know, I, I talked about this on my TV show recently and it is an important point. If the markets crashed, right? Well, first of all, because of the way you're drip feeding in, it's only the money that you've got in that would drop. And any future money you put in, you'd then be buying at another level, a lower level and it could go up. But if the markets crashed, in the short run, it would look horrible. But if the markets then recover, which we hope over a ten-year period and over most ten-year periods they would have done, then at the end you will still be better off. And it's all that, never any guarantees. And it's all that, this is when people, and I, I love the fact you've done this because you sound like someone who was nervous about investing and has gone for it, hearing that actually

• 27:42Martin Lewis?

  for a long period, I should be having a little bit of a risk, but it makes you nervous, doesn't it?

• 27:47Speaker 05

  It certainly does, which is why I'm starting off with such a, dare I say, a low amount at the moment.

• 27:53Martin Lewis?

  But that's fine.

• 27:53Speaker 05

  Get my confidence with more. Yeah.

• 27:56Martin Lewis?

  But the thing is, we, we, we in life and we British particularly, we like certainty. And investing doesn't have certainty and that puts people off. And I think it is not necessarily for all of your money, depending on your attitude to risk. But some exposure to risk can be very helpful. And it sounds like you've started the perfect way. Congratulations on your investing journey. My fingers are crossed for you because that's all I can do because there's no guarantees that this will work out really well. And thank you for calling.

• 28:23Speaker 05

  Thank you very much for your help.

• 28:25Speaker 03

  And although Natalie Martin says, don't look at the investments every day, you can look at your email signature now, which I hope says Natalie Gosport Esquire.

• 28:33Martin Lewis?

  Yes, you're now an Esquire and you're going to get your badge, Natalie. Once we've made the badges, we haven't made the badges yet. Once we've made the-

• 28:39Speaker 05

  I have heard about these badges and I'm looking forward to it. Yeah.

• 28:42Martin Lewis?

  And Simon, I'm just checking, you are making a list while Matt's away.

• 28:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I've got a, I've got a word document that I'm going to send over to him. So yeah, if you send me your-

• 28:50Martin Lewis?

  Because, because let's just be honest, caller, this dereliction of duty by Professor Sir Dr. Matthew Burnham Esquire in the Question Time podcast. I mean, just as we announce that our callers are now called ESQs, Esquires, Extremely Savvy Questioners, and that they're going to get a badge, then he goes off on holiday without having ordered the badges, as far as I'm aware. So I think, you know, this is putting a huge delay on when the badges will come in. Words will be had when he returns.

• 29:15Speaker 03

  Much like investments, faith in Matthew Burnham can go up as well as down, can't it?

• 29:18Martin Lewis?

  Quite right. I love it.

• 29:21Martin Lewis?

  Yes, past performance is no indicator of future. Brilliant. Thank you so much for calling.

• 29:29Martin Lewis?

  Julie in Cheshire. Hi Julie. Hi Matt. Hello Julie. In Cheshire, whereabouts in Cheshire? As a Cheshire man, whereabouts are you? Which part? Uh, I'm in Froddham. Oh, oh, now that we're already doing very well. I know Froddham very well. When I was growing up, Froddham was a village. I think it's a town now. It is. We're a market town. It used to have the widest village street, I think was the, the widest village street in, in the UK. Uh, because I grew up about six, seven miles away from Froddham, which is not very far when you live in that part of the world. I was in Delamere Forest, so I was very near you. Yeah, very near you. Yeah, we've been up to Delamere a number of times. It's beautiful.

• 30:11Martin Lewis?

  Right. So it's lovely to have you on. What, what did we do? What's the success? Well, I, I thought I would tell you about my, my success with my little girl and changing the way we look at money, I suppose. And so I, I grew up in quite a deprived household, so money was a big issue. And I was explaining to Matt some of your stories hit home quite hard for me. It means I've got a bit of a difficult relationship with money. I still check pounds per pence when I, you know, go and pick butter up in the, in the market. And I don't need to do that anymore. So it was quite important. That's not, I think that's not a bad relationship with money. I, I still do it too, and I don't need to do it either.

• 30:57Martin Lewis?

  I think there's something, there's something about keeping your wits about you. There's a difference between you can afford it and you don't want to be ripped off. Yeah, that, yeah, I think that's fair. I, I, I think I find it a little bit controlling, I suppose, but I don't want my children to have that opinion. And, and but in the same respect, they're growing up in a very different world to me. So I don't want them to think that money's no issue either, which is easy done when, when, you know, everything kind of gets paid for you. So we, we've always given the children a bit of spend if they do the part, so if they're helping out. But it's always been a bit haphazard. So this year, we decided to give our nine year old some chores and said to her, right, if you do all your chores each day, you can earn a pound.

• 31:42Martin Lewis?

  If you've completed all of your chores all week, we will up that to 10 pounds. So we'll give you the extra three pounds, but you've got to do them every day consistently. And so she's like, okay, well, you know, not really understanding money properly, I suppose. And so we'll give this a go. By the Sunday, and we made a set and topped her car chart and so on. It's like, right, well, there's your seven pounds and actually you'll get this three pounds for free, basically just for doing your job, bit like a brucy bonus, I suppose. Bonus for good work, yeah. It's a performance related bonus. I love it. Direct, correct. Yeah. So, so this went on for a couple of weeks, but she listens to your podcast in the car with me all the time.

• 32:25Martin Lewis?

  It is quite fun. What's her name? A lot of the topics. Neve. Neve. Hello, Neve. Oh, my God, she will explode.

• 32:35Martin Lewis?

  And so she, she listens to the podcast and obviously a lot of the topics go over her head. But we, we were listening to one on interest specifically. And he was like, mommy, what is interest? I was like, ah, how do I even begin to explain this? Fascinating question for parents. What did you say? I want to know. So what, what I said to her is it's, it's kind of, it's money that the bank gives to you because you're letting them look after your money. And I was like, it's quite a difficult one. And, and the, the money that they give you depends on how much money you have in your bank at any one time. She's like, well, I don't, she has got a bank, but as far as she's concerned, she's like, well, I don't have a bank. My money all goes in my pot. I've got a pot full of pennies that, that adds up. So what, what we'll do, we'll open you a bank.

• 33:19Martin Lewis?

  So I've been listening to the podcast and, and about all the different children savers and so on. And, and we do have an, an ISA for her. We've got an ISA for both. Can I just tell you, I have such a big smile on my face. Please carry on. So we, we've got another daughter, my eldest daughter, Robyn. And she's, she works and she's got her own bank and she deals with her own money now. But we, we said to her, we'll, we'll open you a bank. So we opened a Revolut account, which has a reasonable interest savings account attached into it as well. It's about 3%, isn't it? Yeah, 3%, yeah. And but they pay their interest daily. Nice. So, so we put in some birthday money that she'd had, put, put all the pennies together and cashed them all up.

• 34:04Martin Lewis?

  And I took the pennies and gave her the cash and I've got to deal with the pennies, the battle of pennies. Oh, someone in the supermarket is going to love you. Oh, I know, I know. I'm not sure I'm going to love it, but anyway. And so we, we put all the money into her bank and there was just short of a couple of hundred pounds once we'd totted it all up and put it all in for her. And, and she's like, well, what happens now? When do I get this interest? I was like, well, it doesn't quite happen immediately, but let's, you know, see over the next couple of days. So there's an app that comes with a Revolut account. And when we logged in the, the following day, there was a penny, one penny, which seems so insignificant to, to grownups. But to this little person, it was a free penny, a penny that she didn't have yesterday.

• 34:47Martin Lewis?

  And not given by mommy and daddy and given by the bank, given by someone else. Yeah, she earned it. Yeah. So by the following week, she tipped over and she got two pence. And it was like a revelation. But now it's just going to sit there making her extra money and she doesn't have to wash any pots for it. That's brilliant. And let me give Neve a couple of tips from me. I'll tell you how I would describe interest. I would say interest is the price of money, which sounds very strange. But this is what happens when you save in a bank or a savings account. You're actually giving them your money and you're allowing them to use it as they want to use it

• 35:32Martin Lewis?

  while they're holding on to it. And they can use it to make money. They can use it to lend to people. They can use it to invest in companies and all of those things make them money. But they're making money on your money. So they have to pay you because that you are allowing them to use your money while they look after it for you. That's where the interest comes from. That's the price that they have to pay to use your money. And interestingly, there's another thing we talk about that's called debt. And that's where you owe someone money, which is almost exactly the same thing, just the other way around. That's where you go to your bank and you say to them, I need some money to buy something.

• 36:16Martin Lewis?

  Can you give it to me? Can you lend it to me? And when they lend it to you, they then charge you because you get to use their money. But here's the difference. Normally, when we give our money to the bank, they meant give us three or four percent. And I'll leave your mommy and daddy to talk about percents to you. But when the bank gives us money, it will charge us 18 or 19%. So you are always far better to save up for something that you want rather than to have to borrow it in advance. And you won't be able to borrow now. You're way too young, but this is a good thing to learn when you're older. And one thing you could practise now is instead of when you have your money and you're doing brilliantly, putting it all in the bank, I think it's absolutely fantastic.

• 36:59Martin Lewis?

  But when you have your money in the bank, you always have two choices. You can buy lots of little things with it, but then it doesn't grow. Or you could have an idea of a big thing you want to get later, something that'll be really exciting. And you keep it in there and you have your money and you have the money given to you by the bank. And then you get to have the big thing quicker. I think Neve, it sounds like you're doing absolutely brilliantly. Well done. And thank you for listening to the podcast. You are probably our youngest regular listener. Sorry, I was talking to your daughter, not to you there, Julie. No, she loves it. She absolutely loves it. And she loves the theme tune. She sings the theme tune for us as well. Does she? Can we hear her sing the theme tune? I got this. Oh, you got it? I gotta pay, so I go work, work, work every day. I got mouths. I got mouths.

• 37:44Martin Lewis?

  I gotta feed, so I'm gonna make sure everybody eats.

• 37:52Martin Lewis?

  That was fantastic. I didn't know you had it. That's wonderful. Matt, was that you playing it in? How did that just work?

• 37:57Speaker 06

  It's magic. It's the magic of the podcast.

• 37:59Martin Lewis?

  Okay, that's, that's two producer points for you there, Matt.

• 38:02Speaker 06

  Thank you very much.

• 38:03Martin Lewis?

  Oh, Julie, thank you so much for calling. What a lovely, feel-good way, be it just with, in the run up to Easter. That's absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much. And please send my best wishes to your brilliant daughter, daughters. I will do. Thank you so much for your time. I do appreciate it. That's a pleasure. Thank you for calling. We love that story. Thank you so much. But we're going to have to put it out as a challenge now. Do we have any younger regular listeners than nine? We would love to know. Do get in touch, [email protected]. Thanks, Julie. Thanks, guys. Bye. Thanks. Now, just one quick note on that. A lot of that whole idea about giving pocket money of pay is something I've talked about before because financial education is a big thing. And obviously as adults, we have to go out to work mainly in order to get money.

• 38:47Martin Lewis?

  And I think the idea of pocket money of pay, it enables children to start to understand that sense and gives them a sense of the value of money. You know, if I've spent half an hour to get this pound, half an hour doing whatever it is, then tidying up the kitchen table, whatever you've chosen them to do, that starts to breed that understanding of the value of money much more quickly and getting it as a concept. And I think it works well. The really big question, and I'll leave it up to you, is do you reward them for doing things that they're supposed to do anyway, such as tidying your bedroom? Do you get paid for tidying your bedroom or is that your own responsibility? The choice is up to you as parents. It's an interesting one, though.

• 39:24Martin Lewis?

  Okay, so Matt, at this point in the podcast, this is where you put me to the test with something that's nothing to do with money normally. What have you got for me?

• 39:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, something to lighten this up a little bit. Fun question from Andy. He's emailed in. He says, "Dear Matt and Martin." To Martin-

• 39:39Martin Lewis?

  Well, first of all, Andy, right order, please.

• 39:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, that is the right order. Thanks, Andy. He says, "Do you find the impersonations of yourself on Dead Ringers and other comedy shows funny?"

• 39:52Martin Lewis?

  I don't know. They did impersonations of Matt on comedy shows.

• 39:55Speaker 06

  Wait, Martin, do you find the impersonations of yourself on Dead Ringers and other comedy shows very funny? And he then goes on to say, "To Matt, do you find the impersonations of Martin on Dead Ringers funny? Love the podcasts."

• 40:07Martin Lewis?

  Why didn't you answer first, Matt?

• 40:09Speaker 06

  Well, when I first saw this, I was like, "I don't know what he's talking about." And then, when I thought about it, I have seen these, I have heard these, and they are funny. I don't know the guy who does it, but he has nailed you.

• 40:22Martin Lewis?

  So I know John of old, and John and my wife used to be mates. So it is quite amusing, in the fact. I take it as, at the moment, it's always been relatively flattering. I have to say, and there's no slur to John's skills here, I don't think vocally he sounds like me. I think there's some of the cadence of delivery when I go fast that he's got. And I can see the fun in the way that it's done, you know? So you get yourself a cash iser, and you take your cash iser, and you take your three pints on the back of the cash iser, and you put the cash iser back into it, and then suddenly, boom, you've got £4,000 and you can buy a missile. And that's the type of stuff that they do. And I get that, but I don't think it actually sounds like me.

• 41:07Martin Lewis?

  I'd just like to say that point. I don't think it sounds like my voice. My voice is a lot deeper than that. "Do you feel they hinder or beneficial to the important messages that you convey?" Well, look, I mean, if we go back to the whole spitting image, which you're too young to remember, Matt, but the whole spitting image thing was a real issue for certainly for the Social Democratic Party and the Lib Dems and their big David Owen and little David Steele. And I think reputationally that people tended to think of them almost as their spitting image characters. So there's always a risk in that. I don't think Dead Ringers, I don't think it does that. I take it in good humour that it's taking the mick. I don't think of it as a hindrance of the message at all, to be honest with you.

• 41:50Martin Lewis?

  I don't think it, I think if they tried to, if they got closer in their explanation to something I would actually say, then it might become a problem, because I'm always very paranoid of people sort of representing me and giving misinformation out. But it isn't that. I do find it quite funny, but I think the voice needs a little bit of work. Sorry, John, sorry. Matt, just in case, I don't know if you've allowed the rights, why don't you play a little clip of it here so people can hear?

• 42:14Speaker 06

  Okay, so if you hear the clip next, then I'm able to play it, and if you don't hear the clip, then I'm not allowed to play it.

• 42:20Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, but you wouldn't put this bit in anyway.

• 42:21Speaker 06

  No, but I would.

• 42:23Martin Lewis?

  Stop everything, help has arrived.

• 42:27Speaker 03

  Who are you? How did you get in here?

• 42:29Martin Lewis?

  I am Martin Lewis, money-saving expert.

• 42:38Martin Lewis?

  And I got in here because I helped your head of security save 62% on his broadband. Now, if you want to make your defence spending go further, then you must do exactly as I say. First, tell me, how many fighter jets have you got in an iser?

• 42:55Speaker 03

  What? None!

• 42:57Martin Lewis?

  Then things are worse than I feared.

• 43:02Martin Lewis?

  That's it for this week's Best of Question Time. Don't forget to subscribe so you know when we release a new episode. And if you've got questions for once we start recording the new one, just send them to [email protected]. And don't forget, if you come on the show, we'll send you an exclusive Martin Lewis Podcast Question Time ESQ badge. Who wouldn't want that?

• 43:36Speaker 05

  Martin Lewis is the founder of MoneySavingExpert.com. But of course, other consumer and price comparison websites are available. You can get in touch with Martin's podcast production team by emailing [email protected]. The offers and rates mentioned in the podcast are correct at the time of recording. However, if you are listening on demand, it's worth double checking as details can date. Remember to subscribe on BBC Sounds and leave us a review however you listen.

• 44:12Speaker 02

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• 44:55Speaker 02

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• 45:21Speaker 05

  This week on The Interface, millions of kids have grown up on camera with their childhoods turned into content. There's a new law in California that gives kinfluencers the right to be forgotten, and it could impact adults, too.

• 45:31Speaker 03

  And an attack on Russian data centres started a rumour that all the evil disinformation bots had been deleted from the internet. But the truth might actually be a lot scarier.

• 45:43Speaker 05

  For our take, join me, Jess Maddox.

• 45:45Speaker 03

  And me, Thomas Germain, for The Interface.

• 45:47Speaker 05

  Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.