Rewind Time: 120 Is The New 80 - with David Sinclair

Would you like to LIVE LONGER and HEALTHIER?!!! For so long the fountain of youth has been just beyond our reach, but what if I told you technology and science has made it a reality?! Imagine the possibilities if you could rewind Father Time and relive your youth! Dr. David Sinclair is an absolute EXPERT in the area of anti-aging. He’s a Harvard professor, was named one of New York Times Magazine's most influential people, he’s an author of the international bestseller of “Life Span: Why we age and why we don’t have to” and he was even knighted in his home country of Australia! David is the REAL deal; part scientist, part businessman and I can’t WAIT for you to hear all of the knowledge shared in this interview on how to improve the LONGEVITY of your life and simple ways you can start NOW in this process of living a longer and better life. This conversation is REVOLUTIONARY! I have NEVER heard information like this before. I am incredibly excited for you guys to learn what’s coming in the future and what YOU can do to alter your life by at least a decade longer, NOW. We talk about WHY we age, the causes, and David gives the INSIDE SCOOP on research that isn’t even out to the public yet. This interview will make your head spin, as it did mine! The future looks INCREDIBLE and in this paradigm-shifting conversation, you will hear for yourself how we can make people RESISTANT to genetic diseases like cancer and heart disease through gene therapy. David is doing tremendous world-changing work that is going to leave an imprint on mankind forever. This conversation is the first of many that showcases longevity research and the impact it’s going to have! I can’t wait for you guys to hear about the future and all that is coming! Make sure to have a pen nearby because this is going to be heavy note-taking! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ed Mylett?

  I hear so many small business owners say the exact same thing. They just never have enough time in the day. Well, I measure time differently. I've compressed, condensed, heck, I've bent time. My first day is 6:00 a.m. to noon. My second day starts at noon and goes till 6:00 p.m. And my third day, 6:00 p.m. to midnight. I now get 21 days a week. Stack that up over a month, over a year, over five years, and my life's completely different than it would have been otherwise. And if you want to win as an entrepreneur, you have to compress your time too. And you definitely can't afford to waste it. Waiting weeks on a big bank for capital? Your best bet's to work with my friends at Cardiff. They know how to compress time for entrepreneurs. They get your business approved in minutes and funded the very same day. They're America's favorite small business lender, and for good reason.

• 0:45Ed Mylett?

  Over 20 years in business, over 12 billion deployed to small business across America. Stop letting bank delays slow down your momentum. Head to cardiff.co/ed. That's cardiff.co/ed. Cardiff.co. Real growth, fast funding. Cardiff, borrow better.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  This is the Ed Miliband Show.

• 1:16Ed Mylett?

  Welcome back to Max Out, everybody. The man to my right, I chased down today because today's show is for me, everybody, and you guys get to listen in. Because we're going to talk about anti-aging. We're going to talk about living longer. We're going to talk about living better. And the man to my right is the foremost expert, I think, on the spinning earth today in this area. He's a Harvard professor. He's one of Time Magazine's most influential people. He's been knighted in his home country of Australia. And he's kind of an unbelievable combination of part scientist, part businessman, and an unbelievable bestselling author, international bestselling author of this book, Lifespan, everybody, that I want you to get. Why We Age and Why We Don't Have To. And that's what we're going to talk about today is you not having to age and how we can help you with that.

• 2:00Ed Mylett?

  So, Dr. Sinclair, David, thank you for being here.

• 2:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  Call me David. Thanks, Ed, for having me here.

• 2:04Ed Mylett?

  Going forward, it will be David, so.

• 2:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Please.

• 2:06Ed Mylett?

  Thank you. Combined IQ, very high today, guys, and he's holding up 85% of it, so. Let's uh, let's talk first off about, because this is heavy note taking probably for the audience today. I want to talk first off about aging and how we measure it. Because, you know, I'm not sure, you know, if we're gonna not age, or we're gonna reverse our age, there has to be a calibration method. And I'm wondering, when you do that, is that, is that telomeres? Because I know you talk about the Horvath clock also in your book. How do you measure aging?

• 2:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, we used to just look at people and that person looks kind of old, that person doesn't. Then we had telomeres, which was all the rage in the 1990s. Actually, telomeres aren't the whole rage anymore. There's a new way of measuring aging. And it's this Horvath clock you mentioned. So the Horvath clock has revolutionized our ability to design ways to slow down and in my lab accelerate aging. We can measure it. I could take your blood today, maybe I should, take some back to my lab, and I could measure your actual biological age. So forget about candles, they're irrelevant. I could measure this Horvath clock, and I could tell you not just how old you are biologically, but how long you're gonna live and when you're gonna die.

• 3:19Ed Mylett?

  When you're gonna die.

• 3:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, very accurately. It's scary, but this clock actually tells us, I think, about what the process of aging is, why do we age in the first place?

• 3:29Ed Mylett?

  So it's not, telomeres is sort of old school now? Is that what you're saying?

• 3:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, you know, I try not to just be black and white about this, but telomeres is certainly not the whole story of aging anymore.

• 3:40Ed Mylett?

  So, in general, then we're gonna get very specific. Why do we age? How do we age?

• 3:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, so, this is what's in my book, which is, I've kept bottled up an idea about aging, and we studied it for 10 years and kept it secret. And it all just flowed out onto the page in the book. And we have all this research to back it up. What I'm proposing is that there are lots of different causes of aging. Telomere loss is another, is a main one, there's stem cell loss, senescent cells, so zombie cells that accumulate, all these things. We actually, as a field, I'm a scientist, first and foremost, we declared victory over aging about 10 years ago. We said, there are eight causes of aging. Let's put them in a pie chart, we're done, we know what causes aging. And I'm there thinking, that's great, but... What causes those things?

• 4:26Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 4:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  Is there a unified theory of aging?

• 4:29Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 4:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  And that's what I've got in the book. It's called the information theory of aging. And it can explain, I think, why all of those things happen. So instead of building nine dams or eight dams on eight tributaries, we may be able to go all the way up and stop the main driver of what causes us to get old.

• 4:45Ed Mylett?

  So I want to go through a couple of things. By the way, the book, by the way, now has an audio version that's been updated as well. And I really recommend you all, if you have the book, is go get a look at the new audio book and listen to that because there's a whole new thing in the book there that he's added as well. But I want to go through some of the basic things you've covered because some of these things I do and I'm wondering if they're still effective. And I'm wondering if I shouldn't be doing them anymore. But one of the things I was prescribed, I have fed touch of arterial sclerosis in my life. And one of the things my cardiologist was concerned about was inflammation in my body. And so I was prescribed metformin.

• 5:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 5:22Ed Mylett?

  In an effort to reduce inflammation in my body. And I'm wondering all of your thoughts on metformin because it's at the kind of the, it's part of the book and it's also part of a lot of the conversation about anti-aging, glucose regulation and those kinds of things.

• 5:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so the thing with metformin that everyone needs to know and will know if they get the book is that there are three main ways to slow down aging, three genetic pathways. I work on one pathway called the sirtuins, which we can talk about later. But there are crocs of defending against aging. There are two others. One responds to how much protein you eat. And the third one responds to how much energy, chemical energy is in your body. That's metformin.

• 6:02Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 6:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  So metformin will trick your body into thinking there's not enough energy and it'll respond and actually make your body, we think, fight against aging.

• 6:11Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 6:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  And particularly type 2 diabetes. So metformin is a drug that came out from the French lilac. It's originally a natural molecule, but it was tweaked a bit. So it's now a drug, you need a prescription. But I'm shocked, are you still taking metformin?

• 6:25Ed Mylett?

  I'm not.

• 6:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  Ah, well, all right, we need to talk.

• 6:28Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 6:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  But I'm not an M D.

• 6:29Ed Mylett?

  Why should we talk? Should I be still taking it?

• 6:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  I don't make any recommendations.

• 6:35Ed Mylett?

  In general.

• 6:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  But, but what I do is I take it.

• 6:38Ed Mylett?

  You do?

• 6:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, yeah, I don't leave home without it.

• 6:40Ed Mylett?

  Can I tell you why I stopped and you can correct me?

• 6:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Sure.

• 6:42Ed Mylett?

  Okay. I stopped because I started to read at least anecdotal evidence, because I do lift weights.

• 6:47Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yep.

• 6:47Ed Mylett?

  I'm an athlete. I'd like to think of myself as an athlete, even though I'm pushing 50 years old. Um, that it may have some negative implications on athletic performance and/or recovery.

• 6:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  All right, so now we're really jumping in fast.

• 7:01Ed Mylett?

  There we go.

• 7:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  All right.

• 7:02Ed Mylett?

  I've been waiting for today for a long time, sorry.

• 7:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so metformin, what it does is it inhibits your mitochondria. It makes your body think you don't have enough energy.

• 7:11Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 7:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  And your body will respond accordingly and you become what's called insulin sensitive. You'll have low glucose levels in your body and it'll prevent type 2 diabetes.

• 7:20Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 7:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  What we also know from studies of 10,000, up to 100,000 people in some studies. People who take metformin seem to be protected, not just against diabetes, but against heart disease, cancer, frailty and Alzheimer's. That's all good. That's what you find in a, an anti-aging or longevity pill.

• 7:37Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 7:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Metformin's great because it's, as far as we know, pretty safe. It's been taken by probably 100 million people around the world. It's on the list of the World Health Organization's list of essential medicines for humanity. So it's, it's, it's pretty good. You're not, you're not going to die from it. It's very rare. Consult a doctor as you did. But I was surprised that your doctor put you on metformin even though you didn't have diabetes. That's very rare.

• 8:02Ed Mylett?

  The reason was, and um, I should, I, I won't say her name, but I think she's sort of at the cutting edge of this and she really does believe that one of the greatest risks to my health or anybody's health is developing type 2 diabetes.

• 8:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  Great. So your doctor knows a lot more than most doctors.

• 8:16Ed Mylett?

  Correct. Most cardiologists, it's Lipitor and Crestor and uh, you know, don't eat a steak.

• 8:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  Exactly. And, and their view, and I train a lot of doctors and work with them. But their view is unless you pass the threshold of a disease.

• 8:29Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 8:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  We are, we won't treat it.

• 8:31Ed Mylett?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:31Dr. David Sinclair?

  But metformin will prevent diabetes as well and get your glucose levels. And actually, the best predictor of longevity right now, besides this clock, is your blood glucose levels. You want to keep them down.

• 8:40Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 8:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  You do not want to go up. And I was going up and up and up, so I started taking metformin a couple of years ago.

• 8:46Ed Mylett?

  You do.

• 8:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  And my, ostensibly my biological age, based on different tests, not the clock, but the other tests, went from 58 down to 31.4.

• 8:54Ed Mylett?

  It's incredible. And you look 31.4 and I look 58, so I want to, I need to get back on metformin.

• 8:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  I was joking with Ed that I needed to wear this padded suit so that I don't look such a wimp.

• 9:05Ed Mylett?

  Oh, I think you look great.

• 9:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  You're looking great.

• 9:06Ed Mylett?

  Thank you.

• 9:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  But let's get back to the muscles. So this is called hypertrophy, muscular hypertrophy, which is great. I would love to look like you and I just don't have the time to do it. But it's great. Plus, you will be much stronger when you're older, which is key to living longer.

• 9:21Ed Mylett?

  Bone density, things of that sort.

• 9:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  All of that's great. And actually, one of the things we like to say in my field is the best way to live a long life is to hang on to the handrail, which basically means don't slip and break your femur or you're done for, like my grandmother.

• 9:34Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 9:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  But let's get into something really important. A lot of people aren't sure about metformin because there were two studies just this year that showed that it slows muscle hypertrophy.

• 9:44Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 9:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  But here's the good news.

• 9:46Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 9:47Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I know the world's experts in this and I've talked to the authors of the paper. So here's the scoop.

• 9:51Ed Mylett?

  All right.

• 9:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  First time.

• 9:52Ed Mylett?

  Awesome.

• 9:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right? You're getting this the first time.

• 9:54Ed Mylett?

  This is awesome.

• 9:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  What they found, and this is also work that's not yet out, so let me give you the scoop.

• 10:00Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 10:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  The patients that got metformin and those that didn't, they all got bigger muscles and they all got stronger. Okay? One group got slightly bigger muscles. That was the group on placebo. And those on metformin didn't get so big. But when they did the strength test, they were equal.

• 10:17Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 10:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  So they're all strong.

• 10:19Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 10:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  They may not look as good.

• 10:20Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 10:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  So I think it's a vanity versus longevity decision.

• 10:24Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 10:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  But I think there's a way around this as well. Now, we're on the cutting edge, so we don't know for sure. But what I do is when I work out, I stop taking metformin, let my body recover for a couple of days, and then I go back on it.

• 10:35Ed Mylett?

  Ah.

• 10:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  And you know, Peter Attia, the good doctor who studies this, we both agree that you don't want to be taking the same medicine every day necessarily, just as you don't want to work out every day. You need to give your body a rest.

• 10:47Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 10:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  So, you know, we cycle these things.

• 10:50Ed Mylett?

  So in between workouts, you might say, if someone works out, let's say Monday, Wednesday, Friday, you might suggest that the workout days specifically, they not take something like metformin on those days?

• 10:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, that's what I do.

• 10:59Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 10:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's based on everything we know in the world right now.

• 11:02Ed Mylett?

  Okay. And then, by the way, thank you for that. You guys, first off, I'm so grateful that you exist. Because, no, I, we're talking about this off-camera too, that this whole field that you're in is moving so quickly and you're at the cutting edge of it. And I think every person listening to this, regardless of they want to live healthier, they also want to live longer, but as they live longer, they want to be able to, they want to, I've already looked at it differently. I look different. I love my dad, but I look different at 48 than my dad did at 48. You know what I'm saying? I think athletically, physically, my strength level, and I think what's possible with somebody like you, like right now, if someone did all the things that are in your book, if they put the right formula together, not only do you think they can not be aging, but what's the window of time they might be able to reverse their aging by?

• 11:47Ed Mylett?

  I know that's by person, by person, but in general, how many years can someone reel off their life, or add to their life, rather?

• 11:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right. Well, so someone like me doesn't typically exist because they're scared of what my colleagues, our colleagues, will say. And it's pretty rough for a scientist to be out there talking about things that are really on the cutting edge and projecting into the future.

• 12:04Ed Mylett?

  And to some extent speculative still, correct?

• 12:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, right.

• 12:07Ed Mylett?

  Based on evidence, but speculative.

• 12:08Dr. David Sinclair?

  But how selfish is it for me and my family

• 12:11Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 12:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  to reap the benefits? We're all scientists in my family. We're on similar programs. How selfish is that for me to keep that bottled up? I want to tell the world what I'm learning.

• 12:20Ed Mylett?

  It's wonderful.

• 12:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  And we're in a world where now everybody can learn as fast as I'm learning and what I'm doing. And that's, I feel an obligation to do that. But what about talking about the metformin, the story?

• 12:33Ed Mylett?

  Couple, two and a half years it says it takes off, or adds to, so if you're

• 12:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  It can.

• 12:37Ed Mylett?

  Right. Theoretically, if you're 50, you're now 47 and a half, if you're on the normal dose of metformin is what they're saying. But we don't really know, we don't know what it's going to do to diminish your ability to get type 2 diabetes, what that could do, heart disease, all the inflammation in your body because of these glucose spikes, correct?

• 12:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, so here's the most important take-home message is that only 20% of your longevity and how you'll feel when you're 70 and 80 and 90 is genetic. The rest is in your hands.

• 13:04Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 13:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  Isn't that, that's liberating.

• 13:06Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 13:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  I mean, you can sit on the couch, you can eat potato chips, you can not exercise. You can eat whatever you want. But you're minimizing your, your potential.

• 13:15Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 13:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  And what we all have in our bodies, what we co-discovered in my lab is that there are genes that control how long we live. We work on these pathways. And what we've discovered is they don't just exist, they respond to how we live. And what we want to do is trick our bodies into thinking there's adversity. Biological stress, not emotional stress, but biological stress.

• 13:35Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 13:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  So now we understand why does exercise make us healthier and live longer? Why does being hungry make us live longer? Why do all these things, eating good foods? It's because they're turning on these body defenses, these longevity genes that we work on. And that's the revelation. They're in all of us, but we, they become complacent unless we trick our bodies into getting this feeling of, of adversity.

• 13:58Ed Mylett?

  Adversity.

• 13:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  So it's, we call this hormesis. Hormesis is what doesn't kill you makes you live longer. And that's the reason you should be running and getting out of breath. That's the reason you should be eating plants that are being stressed themselves. You get the benefits of those molecules that they make for their own benefit.

• 14:12Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 14:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  We call that xenohormesis. Terrible, terrible word, but anyway, it, it's good to eat stressed plants. Like, that's why I read, red wine's good for you, we believe. It's full of those molecules.

• 14:22Ed Mylett?

  Thank God. Thank God.

• 14:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so resveratrol, you'll remember we.

• 14:26Ed Mylett?

  Yes. Where are you? So let's go there. You're famous for that. And, um, I got the feeling lately, maybe you're not as married to it as you once were? Or am I incorrect about that? And then for those of you that are taking resveratrol, is it also not true that if you're not doing something that can make it bind to something, so that it can be absorbed by your body? Do you mind talking about that for a second? Because people just kind of willy-nilly take these pills, I think to some extent, and think they're doing something. So A, do you still feel as strong about it as you did at one time? And B, could you tell us how to properly ingest it?

• 15:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  Sure.

• 15:02Ed Mylett?

  Thank you.

• 15:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  All right. So I also dodged the question, not intentionally, of how far can we slow and reverse aging?

• 15:08Ed Mylett?

  You did, I'm sorry. You're right. I let you dodge that.

• 15:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, I try.

• 15:11Ed Mylett?

  Because I'm so fascinated.

• 15:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  I, I worry because people say, oh, how can you say that?

• 15:14Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 15:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, so this is my best guess, is that you can alter your lifespan at least a decade by how you live your life, maybe more. And my father is, is an example of someone who took life by the horns, changed his life. He's super fit. He's now eighty. He's living life like he was thirty still. He's got no diseases.

• 15:30Ed Mylett?

  Is that right?

• 15:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  He just put his name on a wait list for his dream car. I'm thinking a wait list. You're optimistic.

• 15:36Ed Mylett?

  That is awesome.

• 15:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  He started a new career. Really, this is the future for all of us if we look after our bodies and do what we think is the right thing.

• 15:43Ed Mylett?

  Love it.

• 15:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right. So that, I think that ten years is...

• 15:47Ed Mylett?

  Ten years is at least, based on current science, something you could be doing.

• 15:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right. And actually, every four years longer we live, we gain another year. Just because the trajectory of the science, how it's going.

• 15:58Ed Mylett?

  And we're gonna talk about CRISPR a little bit later, where we might be able to interrupt heart disease and some other things here going forward that'll just... That'll extend life. My god, it could be three decades. But, but go ahead, go on resveratrol if you would.

• 16:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  So resveratrol is this molecule in red wine that is thought to protect the French from high-fat foods. And we discovered that it activates an enzyme in the body called Sirt-1. One of these Sirt-1 protective enzymes that's activated by hunger and exercise.

• 16:25Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 16:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  So resveratrol, we discovered as the first molecule that could mimic a calorically restricted diet and exercise. This wasn't an excuse to just sit on the couch and eat pop a pill, because we actually found that if you take... If mice took resveratrol and exercised and ate a healthy diet, they lived the longest.

• 16:44Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 16:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  So it's a combination. But you wanna keep these enzymes active. Because as we get older, these defensive enzymes like Sirt-1, they go down in their activity.

• 16:53Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 16:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  So there are two ways to keep Sirt-1 super active. Besides living the healthy lifestyle that many of us know about and is in my book, page three hundred and two, three hundred and three.

• 17:03Ed Mylett?

  Unbelievable.

• 17:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  Jump to the... Because some people, they want it, they just want the facts.

• 17:07Ed Mylett?

  Right, right.

• 17:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  Just want the list.

• 17:08Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 17:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  But resveratrol is a remarkable molecule, because plants make it to survive. Because plants have Sirt-1 longevity enzymes as well.

• 17:18Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 17:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  But when we ingest that, we get the benefits. So you said I was not as hot on that.

• 17:24Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 17:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  What happened was...

• 17:25Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, okay, I was right.

• 17:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  What happened was... All of us who've been blessed to be successful in what we do have gone through really hard times. And I had my moment, the worst time of my life, in 2010. So I'd spent the last

• 17:41Ed Mylett?

  What was it? Do you mind saying what it was?

• 17:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, sure. So I had discovered resveratrol activates anti-aging pathways. We'd shown that it extended lifespan in everything from a yeast cell to a worm to a fly to a mouse, protected them against a Western diet, and even extended their lifespan when we gave it to them every other day. That was great. We developed drugs that were showing efficacy, working in humans to treat a disease called psoriasis,

• 18:08Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 18:08Dr. David Sinclair?

  which is inflammation on the skin. Everything was looking like we were going to be the first people to make a drug that treats aging on the market. And then a couple of companies, for reasons that we can only speculate, came out with their science and said, "It's all wrong. Everything David said is wrong."

• 18:24Ed Mylett?

  I remember that.

• 18:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  It blew up.

• 18:25Ed Mylett?

  Yep, I remember that.

• 18:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  It trashed the trials. And I was the pariah of the scientific world. And it was tough. I spent a week in bed. I couldn't get out of bed. It was real depression. And I was really angry with the world, I'll admit, because here I am trying to do my best.

• 18:41Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 18:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'm putting my life aside, I'm putting my family aside to help the world, like you do.

• 18:46Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 18:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, maybe not your family, but you know, we want to help the world.

• 18:48Ed Mylett?

  I know exactly what you mean.

• 18:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  And it was, and then everyone said, "Ha ha, you're wrong. Screw you." And it was tough. But, you know, my passion is to leave the world a better place.

• 18:59Ed Mylett?

  Yep, this is your calling.

• 19:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  So I couldn't stay in bed. You know, that, to me, is worse than death, is just sitting there.

• 19:04Ed Mylett?

  Hope everybody just heard that.

• 19:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, it really is. You've got to have, my mission is to change the world in this way. So got out of bed and spent the next three years testing whether what these companies were saying, and I'll say who they were, Pfizer and Amgen both, didn't agree with us. But what it did, and the silver lining was it forced us to do even better science and go back and test our hypothesis very, very rigorously. And we put out a paper in the journal Science, which is the best in the US, best in the world probably, showing that we were right. That resveratrol really was activating this enzyme and wasn't what the naysayers were saying. But you know what? In the media, there were crickets. No one cares about the comeback guy.

• 19:47Ed Mylett?

  Right, that's right.

• 19:47Dr. David Sinclair?

  They just cared about the fall.

• 19:49Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 19:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, so what we've done over the last, what is it now, seven years? Is we've been testing this even more rigorously.

• 19:56Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 19:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'll tell you what we've done.

• 19:58Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 19:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  We've created a mouse, we can genetically create mouse with very specific changes.

• 20:04Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 20:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  We changed the mouse by changing one amino acid, one part of this protein. So you don't mind if I get a little bit technical here?

• 20:13Ed Mylett?

  Do it.

• 20:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  Alright.

• 20:14Ed Mylett?

  Please.

• 20:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  So the en- enzymes are basically machines that change other proteins.

• 20:19Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 20:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  And Sert one, it it's the traffic cop. It tells the body to to fight diseases, fight aging.

• 20:24Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 20:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  But to do that, it has to move. It has to change things. And what it does is it it has this active en- enzyme activity in the middle of, that's its chest. But this arm is the activator. This is the gas, uh, sorry, the the accelerator pedal.

• 20:39Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 20:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  So the accelerator pedal is pushed by resveratrol. Resveratrol come in.

• 20:44Ed Mylett?

  I get it.

• 20:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  Stick here.

• 20:45Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 20:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  Push the accelerator, and now the Sert one enzyme is fighting against disease.

• 20:49Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 20:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Now, we figured out that you can block this step by changing one little thing. Give it tennis elbow, can't bend the elbow. Now resveratrol cannot work anymore.

• 21:00Ed Mylett?

  Got it.

• 21:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  So we made a mouse that was unable to bend this arm and activate. So the accelerator pedal, we took it out of the system. The mou- the mouse is otherwise normal, doesn't have the accelerator pedal though. So if if we're wrong and we give resveratrol to these mice, they won't live longer on a high-fat diet, western diet. If we're right, resveratrol won't work at all.

• 21:21Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 21:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  And we got the second result, hundred percent. And that's as close to proof that we were right in the first place. So what I'm hoping is that'll reinvigorate the field and we'll get those drugs back into those clinical trials.

• 21:34Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 21:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  But I haven't been sitting on uh, on my hands. I've been working on other molecules that seem to have a lot of promise.

• 21:40Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 21:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  And maybe even better than the original discovery.

• 21:42Ed Mylett?

  Such as?

• 21:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, we call them NAD boosters.

• 21:45Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 21:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  Or NAD, some people call them NADs. So there are two ways to activate these these protective enzymes. One is the accelerator pedal.

• 21:51Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 21:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  The other is the gas

• 21:52Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 21:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  that comes in through here. And without either of those, you don't have hyperactive system.

• 21:58Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 21:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  And as we get older, we lose this NAD.

• 22:01Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 22:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  So it's estimated that by the time you're my age fifty and you're getting close,

• 22:05Ed Mylett?

  All right, I'm right there.

• 22:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  You have about half the levels you did of NAD when you were young, when you were twenty.

• 22:09Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 22:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  So of course, your defenses against aging are going to be about half the levels that they were.

• 22:14Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  So there are some ways to to keep your NAD levels relatively high.

• 22:18Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 22:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  One is to exercise, lose your breath, work out.

• 22:21Ed Mylett?

  Lose your breath. You said that a couple of times.

• 22:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, you want to lose your breath.

• 22:24Ed Mylett?

  So not walking cardio, lose your breath cardio.

• 22:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, that's the best way, at least based on the animal studies we've done and some human studies.

• 22:30Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 22:31Dr. David Sinclair?

  And then the second is you want to be hungry, at least part of the day. And that'll raise the levels of.

• 22:36Ed Mylett?

  What do you mean by that? Like, so do you believe in intermittent fasting, or do you?

• 22:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  I do.

• 22:40Ed Mylett?

  You do?

• 22:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  I do. We used to restrict calories the whole day.

• 22:43Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 22:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  In these, what we call calorie restriction.

• 22:45Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  And that was the paradigm for about seventy years, actually.

• 22:49Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 22:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  And then in the last ten years, we've realized, hey, you don't need to always be hungry. You can actually eat a decent meal or two.

• 22:55Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 22:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  But don't eat three meals a day. Don't always snack.

• 22:58Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 22:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  Because being hungry is what turns on these protective enzymes.

• 23:01Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 23:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  And so I've now shifted my life to eating small meals. I now, what I do is I skip breakfast as best I can.

• 23:08Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 23:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  Eat a very late lunch, or even forget to eat lunch, and then eat a normal dinner.

• 23:12Ed Mylett?

  This is more and more. So that Dr. Ian Smith, I told you, is on my show. His book was about intermittent fasting, but that, the aging benefit was never discussed.

• 23:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 23:20Ed Mylett?

  We discussed the health benefit, although I'm sure Ian's aware of it. It's not something that we discussed. Just to put a loop on resveratrol, what about the way you take it? Is it important? I was reading that you thought something about taking it with either like a yogurt, or a milk, or something it can bind to? Exactly. And why does that matter?

• 23:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, so there are clinical trials over the last ten years based on our research. And some have failed and some succeeded.

• 23:41Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 23:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  And the main reason that they failed, in my view, is that doctors who don't understand resveratrol have just given the pill with water. And resveratrol is the equivalent of brick dust. It's like eating sand, right? We're here on the beach.

• 23:54Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 23:55Dr. David Sinclair?

  If you eat sand, you're not going to absorb it.

• 23:56Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 23:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  But if you crush up the sand and mix it with things, you might absorb a little bit.

• 24:00Ed Mylett?

  All right.

• 24:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's what we do with resveratrol. And what I do personally is I have this amazing yogurt that I make myself.

• 24:06Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 24:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I mix it with that, and it's all beautifully, and I have a couple of spoons of that.

• 24:10Ed Mylett?

  So if I take, if I'm taking a pill, could I take it with a yogurt? Is that what you're suggesting?

• 24:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  That would work in your stomach.

• 24:15Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 24:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  I have powder in my basement, so I just spoon it in.

• 24:18Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 24:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  I take about half a gram to a gram.

• 24:20Ed Mylett?

  Okay, awesome.

• 24:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  But yeah, you got to do that. And so the recent studies that have actually included resveratrol with a meal have succeeded in lowering blood sugar.

• 24:30Ed Mylett?

  Got it.

• 24:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  And there are actually now, I was just at a meeting in Washington DC where they have beautiful clinical data showing that it works like metformin to reduce blood sugar.

• 24:38Ed Mylett?

  So this blood sugar concept, because that's my cardiologist's big thing too. This is just going to be huge throughout everything that we're learning about the body and keeping it stable and not aging and also not doing, not even turning on certain, can inflammation of the body speed up turning on a genetic code that's already in there?

• 24:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  Absolutely. Yeah, that's a really good, good point. The inflammation is, is a problem because if you have inflammation, it'll also shut down these defenses against aging. And that'll lead to more inflammation and just accelerate aging. You know, we know that we get to about 40 and we're still pretty good. We get to 50 and we're starting to feel a little different, looking different.

• 25:11Ed Mylett?

  That's absolutely true.

• 25:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  And then you fall off a cliff.

• 25:14Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 25:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's this positive feedback of inflammation, shutting down longevity genes and vice versa.

• 25:19Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 25:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  And it just, it's once in a while.

• 25:21Ed Mylett?

  I have found that those things, and we're going to talk about them later, like my vision, other signs of aging, really started to accelerate in my mid to late 40s, approaching 50. I mean, massive difference. So I didn't mean to interrupt you there, but it's certainly something I've seen evidentiary, like my own experience as a human. I feel myself aging now at this point.

• 25:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. So there are things you can do to slow that down.

• 25:42Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 25:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  And things that we're doing that slow and reverse aspects, and then technology that can reverse all aspects.

• 25:48Ed Mylett?

  Okay, let's keep talking about that. By the way, everybody, this is one of these shows, my audience loves this, just so you know. So there, many of them are driving right now. They're going to go back. This is watch it again or listen to it again. And you're taking all these notes. So I want to go through a couple of other specific things. We've talked about resveratrol. We've talked about metformin. There's sort of this cocktail sort of that you suggest to some extent. I want to talk about growth hormone for a second. What are your feelings about growth hormone, both taking an exogenous version or doing things that may, if it even works, of growing your own? And why is growth hormone so important or not important?

• 26:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. So in my field of, of aging research, it's, it's debated tremendously. And most of the, the debate comes from studies of, of animals. And what we find is that animals that have low levels of growth hormone live longer. So there's this.

• 26:38Ed Mylett?

  Low levels live longer.

• 26:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right.

• 26:40Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 26:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  But there's something that my colleagues don't appreciate. And that is a lifelong treatment of, or lifelong existence with low growth hormone. What you end up with is dwarfism. So, small animals, due to a lack of development, live long.

• 26:59Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 27:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's also, by the way, known that the smaller you are, you tend to live longer. That, we know that from pet dogs. If you've ever had a large dog, you know the problem. So, the reason is that during development, we're actually slowing down the clock. And you actually, the clock is changing when you're young as well. But what, what I believe anyway, is having read thousands of papers on this topic, is that growth hormone isn't bad, but it won't make you live longer.

• 27:26Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 27:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  Because what, what it's doing is some benefits. It's gonna improve your body's metabolism, it's gonna help you grow muscle. But what it's not doing is turning on the longevity genes, which is what you need to do.

• 27:39Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 27:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  The kind of things that I'm doing, to get those active as well.

• 27:41Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 27:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  So, what's exciting to me is maybe you could take growth hormone, but then trick the body into thinking that it's lacking growth hormone, and that you're exercising tremendously.

• 27:51Ed Mylett?

  How would you do that?

• 27:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  Trick it?

• 27:53Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 27:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, what I do is the combination of the metformin.

• 27:57Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 27:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  With the risveratrol, and there's then an NAD booster, which I take. Those are the three main components. By the way, I don't recommend anybody do anything. I'm a PhD, not a doctor. But I, I feel an obligation to say what I do.

• 28:12Ed Mylett?

  And the, and by the way, one other thing, there's all these companies out there suggesting that your name's on them, but you're not involved with any particular company that's NAD that they could purchase right now, are you?

• 28:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, no, I'm glad you mentioned that, because if you look on the internet, you might think that I have ten companies.

• 28:27Ed Mylett?

  You would.

• 28:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  There's even a Sinclair Labs, somebody started a company with my name on there.

• 28:31Ed Mylett?

  Goodness.

• 28:31Dr. David Sinclair?

  So, I, I don't do that, and there's a very good reason for that.

• 28:34Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 28:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's because I need to be able to give you my unbiased scientific opinion. And if I, if I have some favorites, why would you trust what I'm saying?

• 28:42Ed Mylett?

  Good point. Okay, so, we got the growth hormone answer, okay? My age, you find a dude looking like me, that dude may have had an interest in hormone replacement.

• 28:54Ed Mylett?

  And I'm wondering your thoughts on that. So I've had people say to me, as your hormones in your body diminish, you are aging. And so for that reason, in the anti-aging movement, particularly testosterone therapy for both men and women now is a pretty highly prescribed and recommended protocol as their own levels drop. What are your thoughts about that?

• 29:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, I think that makes perfect sense to me.

• 29:18Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 29:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  There are two points. One is that maintain what you've lost. I think it makes perfect sense. Testosterone and growth hormone.

• 29:27Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 29:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  But don't think that they're gonna make you live longer. That's not the solution.

• 29:31Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 29:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  I think you need to combine that with these other things that will put your body in a defensive state. Because testosterone and growth hormone, they're gonna do the opposite. They're gonna put your body in the growth reproduction state.

• 29:43Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 29:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  Which is great when you're young, but it's not gonna extend your lifespan.

• 29:46Ed Mylett?

  Do you believe, is it a wives tale that either testosterone or the growth hormone may grow organs in your body? Or do we not know? In other words, the heart might expand to a dangerous extent. And secondly, I just love asking you this stuff, sorry. And secondly, that potentially if you were to develop cancer or a tumor, that it could accelerate the speed of which the disease manifests itself in your body. Do you, do we know? Do we have an idea? Do you have an opinion about it?

• 30:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Well, so it's debated. So there is, the truth is, we don't actually know. But I've read all the literature and my personal take on the science is that it's not a risk to develop tumors. But if you have a tumor, then I think, then you get serious with your doctor and I think you stop this stuff.

• 30:35Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 30:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  But everything I've seen is that things that you and I do, they're not gonna make things worse. But if something's detected, then we're in new territory. So for instance, NAD boosters, I take those. If you give those to mice, they have new blood vessels. It's like a super drug for athletes.

• 30:52Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 30:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  They can run further.

• 30:54Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 30:55Dr. David Sinclair?

  But it also, you don't want extra blood vessels growing in your tumor.

• 31:00Ed Mylett?

  Okay, good point.

• 31:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  So I think that With an abundance of caution, anyone who has a tumor, don't take these things. But it's not gonna necessarily grow a tumor.

• 31:10Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 31:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  If you don't have one already.

• 31:12Ed Mylett?

  Wonderful, okay. So let's talk, by the way, thank you. Are you having as much fun doing this as I am? Because you know all this stuff already.

• 31:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, this is one of the best interviews I've done. Because we're getting into all sorts of things that I usually don't get asked about.

• 31:23Ed Mylett?

  Wonderful. Let's talk about aging for a second. So as we're measuring aging, I've heard, I've read some things, so understanding what's happening. Could you explain to us, is it the cells inability to now read the DNA like it used to? Or what's happening that's causing this to happen in our body? And is what I just said completely ridiculous?

• 31:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, it's correct.

• 31:43Ed Mylett?

  Good.

• 31:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  We're done, we're done here. Ed's gonna do the rest of the interview by himself. God, it's serious, seriously, you summed it up probably better than I could. Which is, the analogy I use is a DVD, these old things you used to put movies on.

• 31:58Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 31:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  Kid, any kids watching or listening, this is, these are old things you used to put digital information on. But they're a good analogy because you can actually scratch them.

• 32:06Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 32:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right? And so a DVD is the digital information. And our genome, our DNA is digital. Instead of zeros and ones, it's A, T, C, G, chemicals. That information is actually very robust. You can get it out of an old person, it's intact mostly. You can get it out of a fossil. It lasts for thousands, if not millions of years. That's, that's the cool thing about digital information, it lasts. There's another type of information that controls the reading of those genes. We call that, not the genetic, but the epigenetic information. An epigenetic basically says, how is the DNA organized so a cell reads the right genes at the right time? And we don't know as much about it because it's much harder to read the epigenome than the genome.

• 32:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  The reason is, the epigenome is not digital information, it's, it's actually analog.

• 32:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  It sucks. Anyone who's had a cassette tape or, you know, a phonograph or a record player Sure. is actually experiencing the problems with analog information. Okay. There's generations of people now that have never experienced analog in their lives. But trust me, analog sucks. And our bodies, half of the information in our bodies is analog. Okay. And that's the problem. That's why we age. Okay. Because the analog, we have an analog system that reads the DNA. And over time, it doesn't read the right genes at the right time anymore. Okay. And cells, when they don't read the right genes, they don't function well. So our blood glucose goes up, we get weak, we get diseases. Hmm. That's aging. But also, what happens is that the cells forget what type of cells they are.

• 33:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. They despecialize. We call it X-differentiation. Essentially, we become a melange, a collection of cells that have forgotten what kind of cells they should be. Got you. And that is pretty bad news, right? Yes. If you scratch your DVD, you're in trouble. Mm-hmm. We've been looking for the polish on that DVD, and I think we've found it. Okay, and it is? Well, we call it reprogramming, genetic or epigenetic reprogramming. And it's a set of genes that we can put into cells or into the eye of a mouse. Yeah. And reset the age of that animal. Remember that clock that we're gonna measure on you? Yes. We call that the epigenetic clock for a good reason, because it's, it's actually the analog changes in the cell, right? Okay. But here's what we can do. We can actually tell the cell,

• 34:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  now that you're old and you're not reading the right genes, go back and read the genes the way you should. Okay. It's essentially polishing the DVD. Another way to think of it is, we're rebooting the cell. Yes. We've got corrupted software. Screw that. Let's restart the, the, the, the whole computer. Okay. And you're young again. Okay. Right? Erase the hard drive, start again. Wow. But we didn't know that was possible until a year ago. Wow, wow. That's what's in the book. I was writing the book as we made these discoveries. Wow. Imagine that, there's a memory of being young in all of our bodies that we just have to tell, reset.

• 35:04Ed Mylett?

  Oh my gosh. And so, do you mind naming the company that you're involved with that I was reading about that had something to do with the retina, or you're doing it, you're working on it specific with eyes, is that not right?

• 35:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, that's right. So it's still in stealth mode.

• 35:15Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, this is incredible.

• 35:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  But I'll reveal it to all your listeners for the first time. It's called Iduna, and it's interesting, the first part of it is I, because we're gonna treat glaucoma.

• 35:26Ed Mylett?

  Oh my gosh, this is huge.

• 35:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  And then Iduna is also the Norse goddess of longevity. But here's what we wanna do, and I'm an entrepreneur just like you, because I believe not just in making discoveries, but making them practical for people. Iduna is planning and working towards treating the loss of vision in people.

• 35:47Ed Mylett?

  This is unbelievable.

• 35:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  But if we can reverse aging in the eye, what can't we reverse aging in? So it's early days, but what we've just discovered, and we have a scientific paper, if you Google my name, you'll find it.

• 35:59Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 36:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  We were able to reprogram the retina of an old mouse that couldn't see very well anymore, to be young again. So the nerves in the back of the eye, they became young, and these mice completely got their vision back.

• 36:12Ed Mylett?

  This is unbelievable. This is one of the, this may be one of the most exciting things that we're on the brink of, that you're at the forefront of on the planet right now. And the reason it's important to me, A, it's funny, as I've aged, I had perfect vision, you know, as a baseball player, I mean unreal vision, I could read a street sign from miles away, I don't know if it's miles away, but far away, and people say, "How do you see like this?" And now I'm finding, I can't read the street sign from 30 feet away. This area where I'm most aware of my aging is in my ability to see, and I have a sister, I haven't told you this, who has juvenile diabetes, born without a pancreas that functioned, and she's gotten to the point where essentially, in long stages of her life, she's been completely blind,

• 36:54Ed Mylett?

  and now sees just to some extent. And so, do you think that there's even properties eventually with people with? I mean, massive retina deterioration, you believe is gonna be something that could be reversible at some point.

• 37:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  So I don't want to overpromise, because it's just a year old and we're making discoveries pretty fast, but it's still in animals. But let's just suspend all sorts of disbelief right now and talk about what's possible. So what I can tell you is the reason that you and I are losing our vision, the reason we have to do this at night, is because the nerves in the back of our eye are not youthful anymore, and they're forgetting that they're nerves.

• 37:31Ed Mylett?

  Right, as we said earlier, yes.

• 37:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  And if I reprogram your eye just with an injection, what I think would happen is that you'd get, those nerves would say, "Oh shit, I gotta work well again." That I think we can do. Our nerves in our eye are no different than a mouse's eye, really. But we did another experiment. We crushed the back of the optic nerve. We really, like, you crush your spine, it's not gonna grow back, unless you're a baby. We reversed the age of those nerves so much that they actually started growing back to the brain even after we killed them.

• 38:02Ed Mylett?

  Oh my gosh. That's, oh my gosh. So if you could do that in an eye, as you said, where else could that eventually be applicable in the body? Is un, you guys, unbelievable. Now we're not talking a decade. Now we're talking, I mean, we could potentially talking people living extremely long lifespans. What's doxycycline?

• 38:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  Doxycycline is an antibiotic that you take for Lyme disease and some other infections. It's pretty common.

• 38:27Ed Mylett?

  But what's the application here?

• 38:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, so we engineered our treatment so that we put the genes in the eye, and then we give the mice doxycycline for three weeks. And that turns on the genes. They get their vision back, then we turn it off again by taking away the antibiotic. So here's a future scenario. We can put those genes into our whole body. And as we get older, or God forbid, we break our back, or we injure ourselves, and we're not gonna survive, we get an IV of doxycycline, or we take a pill, and we become like Deadpool. And we can regrow things, like an axolotl would chop their limb off and they grow again. And then we stop taking the antibiotic, we're young.

• 39:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  And then we can wait another few decades.

• 39:15Ed Mylett?

  Right, do it again.

• 39:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, so here's the cool thing. And I'm gonna mention this in my social media, because we don't know the answer yet, but I'll keep you updated. I'll give you a call.

• 39:24Ed Mylett?

  We'll be back on.

• 39:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  We don't, I'd love to come back on. We don't know how many times you can press the reset button and restore the hard drive. It could be once, we've done that. Maybe it's a hundred times.

• 39:35Ed Mylett?

  Oh my gosh. I, I, I'm such a, I'm not a skeptic. I think sometimes my mind goes to, what's the problem with that? And I think about, is there even enough food in the world if people are living two and three and four hundred years long? Have you thought through some of those issues, or is that something you don't even think about?

• 39:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, I think about it all the time.

• 39:52Ed Mylett?

  You do?

• 39:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, because it's the planet and humanity that I care about.

• 39:55Ed Mylett?

  Water and food, right? There's only, there's a finite amount of that, at least right now.

• 39:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, so, I talk about this in my, in my book also, because we can't just solve aging and make people live a decade or more longer without tackling the other problems we have. But what I've done is, the calculations and the rationale comes out that this is the best thing we can do for the planet. Now, it sounds crazy, right? That if we have people living longer, how's that gonna help? Well, first of all, it doesn't raise the population that much. In fact, most countries are leveling off anyway.

• 40:26Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 40:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  Okay, even if we stopped aging today, the rate of population growth isn't that much. There aren't that many old people that are dying, actually. It's, it's actually less than the rate of immigration right now.

• 40:36Ed Mylett?

  Hmm.

• 40:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yep, and there are a lot of countries that need help. Japan is losing its population, Europe as well. So there's that. But talk about consumption. We throw away half our food in this country. We've gotta fix that first.

• 40:47Ed Mylett?

  Sure.

• 40:47Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, but the biggest thing, the big takeaway message is, if we can keep people healthier for longer and just have them die in a matter of months at the end, which is what happens if you live to a hundred.

• 40:58Ed Mylett?

  I understand now, okay, I get it.

• 40:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  So people, centenarians, we call them, people who make it over a hundred, they die quickly, usually have a heart attack or a kidney failure. They cost at least one-third less than the rest of us.

• 41:09Ed Mylett?

  I get it.

• 41:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  Let's get us all there.

• 41:11Ed Mylett?

  I just got it.

• 41:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, that's trillions of dollars saving. We already waste a lot of money on healthcare.

• 41:16Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 41:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  Keeping people alive for 10 years in nursing homes. I think we all have a duty to keep ourselves healthy for longer. If not for ourselves, but for our children and our grandchildren who have to take care of us for 10 years.

• 41:27Ed Mylett?

  This is a revolutionary conversation for me. It's a paradigm shifting conversation because some of the things we discussed today. Everyone, I want to go back. You have to get this book. You have to get this book. You have to be following this man on social media and you're going to want to get the next one. This is someone that if you want to live better, longer, healthier, you want to stay close to this man because obviously he's going to live for a whole long time. And he's at the cutting edge of all of these things we've talked about. I want people to dream for a minute, then I'm going to go for a question about, I don't have a lot of money and I want to begin to live longer. But I want to go to one more thing just because I want people to understand some of the possibilities out there. Talk to them about CRISPR just a little bit because this is combined with what you just described, something that is, you begin to think through all of the technological advances in the world.

• 42:12Ed Mylett?

  But in terms of, in terms of this space, we may be entering the, if we want to call it the internet age of anti-aging right now. We may be sitting on our, the Apples and the Microsoft concepts, the Googles of anti-aging right now in some of these spaces and, and these will change people's lives. So tell them about CRISPR just for a second.

• 42:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, right. So, so we've gone through what we can do today in our daily lives. And there's cutting edge technology that, that I took about in my book and we just talked about, that's coming very soon.

• 42:43Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 42:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  And there's medicines already that you can possibly take. But the future looks incredible. I've already said that even if we don't have these breakthroughs, every four years we get to live longer, we get another year of life. That's, that's great. But what's coming makes my head spin and I've been at the cutting edge of, of genetics for the last, you know, 30 years and I just can't believe every morning I wake up and I pinch myself that we're living in the future already. What's coming blows my mind. So in my department at Harvard Medical School, I get to work with people who grow eyes in a dish and people who work on all sorts of futuristic stuff, growing brains in a dish. George Church is one of my good friends and colleagues. He's just, my lab's just on the different floor than his in the same building.

• 43:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  So he's one of the guys that, women as well. There were, there were a team of people that showed that you could actually edit the human genome.

• 43:33Ed Mylett?

  This is huge.

• 43:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  So we can now read the genome. You know, instead of billion dollars to read your genome, I can do it in my lab for a, a device, with a device that big.

• 43:43Ed Mylett?

  Right now.

• 43:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  For a hundred bucks.

• 43:45Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 43:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  I can do that today.

• 43:46Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 43:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  And soon it'll be in a few hours for less than the cost of a needle.

• 43:50Ed Mylett?

  Crazy.

• 43:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's the crazy stuff. But it gets even crazier when we can actually change the genome. We don't just read it, we write it. And we can change genes, we can put new genes in very easily. There are drugs on the market, most people may not realize, you may not realize that we can now, FDA approved drugs, we are changing people's genetic diseases, we're curing genetic diseases. We are living in the future, man.

• 44:11Ed Mylett?

  That's crazy.

• 44:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  But the future for us is gonna be even crazier because we are just on the cost of hundreds of companies working on CRISPR and gene therapy. And this is the hottest thing in biotech right now.

• 44:24Ed Mylett?

  I mean, imagine everybody, the ability to interrupt the fact that you have a predisposition to heart disease or a form of cancer and interrupt that. How about this, maybe this is nuts. Could we potentially interrupt somebody's, and make them smarter? Could you change someone's intelligence through altering their genome? Could you do that?

• 44:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well theoretically, there's a lot of genes involved in intelligence. And the brain has to be wired from an early age.

• 44:47Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 44:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  But we know that drugs are capable of making you more intelligent, or at least give you more creativity. So we, we could do that theoretically. But one of the things I'm excited about is being able to alter our bodies in ways that make us resistant to certain diseases.

• 45:00Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 45:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  Heart disease, HIV. Now, we can get to that.

• 45:04Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, go ahead.

• 45:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  There are two kids on this planet that were genetically modified to be resistant to HIV. That's craziness. Now, crazy to think about. Now, there's a whole debate. We, we in the world should start debating whether we wanna, not just help ourselves, but we want to make our kids resistant to heart disease, to cancer. We know how to do this. If you said, David, could I make my kids resistant to cancer? That's easy, I could do that in my lab. One of my students could do it. It's not difficult.

• 45:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  We know that there are species that live a lot longer than us. They have certain gene variants. They have special types of these longevity genes. Whales can live 200 years. We know pretty much what they're doing. They're stabilizing their epigenome. Their DVDs don't get scratched as much. So whales can live 200 years. So it's possible. We know some of the genes that are involved. We could give ourselves that, or we could give our children that.

• 45:57Ed Mylett?

  Why would we not? What are the negative implications of something like that?

• 45:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, well, we just wanna make sure it's safe.

• 46:02Ed Mylett?

  Meaning, what else is it doing? Is that what you mean?

• 46:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right. You could make them intelligent, but they might then get cancer the next week.

• 46:08Ed Mylett?

  I got you. So Sen- uh, I wanna make sure I pronounce it right. Senolytics. Am I saying that correctly?

• 46:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  Senolytics?

• 46:13Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 46:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 46:15Ed Mylett?

  What is it?

• 46:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, they're exciting too.

• 46:16Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 46:17Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's also been a breakthrough. So as I mentioned that before we figured out how to reprogram the body, the best technology and understanding we had were these hallmarks of aging. There were about eight of these. And I mentioned some of them.

• 46:28Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 46:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  One of the main ones is senescent cells which accumulate.

• 46:32Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 46:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  So when you get a really bad scratched DVD, when your cells forget what type of cell they are, they can kill themselves. But if they don't kill themselves, they become senescent. So what's senescent? They actually, instead of dying, they just sit there like zombies. And that'd be fine, except they start to secrete these factors that cause other cells that are healthy to grow old and defective. Inflammation is a big problem.

• 46:53Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 46:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  And we think that senescent cells are causing this problem. So senolytics is just a word for drugs that will kill off those cells when they're not dying themselves.

• 47:03Ed Mylett?

  Got it.

• 47:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  And in mice, if you do that, they get rejuvenated.

• 47:06Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 47:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  And they get younger.

• 47:08Ed Mylett?

  Okay. I'm a, I'm a, I'm thinking through someone listening to this, cause my, the typical person in my audience, I think, works out to look better, or eats to look better. And I think the next level of consciousness, particularly, unfortunately, I've found that anti-aging has almost become, um, in a space and an area where people with some affluence have been thinking about more than people that are just trying to get through life and improve their stock in life. And I don't like that part of it.

• 47:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 47:39Ed Mylett?

  And so I know there are people listening to this going, "This sounds good. I can't afford to get Metformin." I, uh, I'm probably not gonna take growth hormone, and I'm not sure that I should anyway. Rosveratrol's relatively affordable for most people. You could probably get your hands on that potentially. But...

• 47:53Ed Mylett?

  If you were to give me two or three, four basic things I could do to begin to reverse the aging process for me, would be the caloric restriction, would it be carbohydrates?

• 48:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 48:04Ed Mylett?

  What would those few things be if I'm not able to get myself a couple of these medications that I should be putting in my body right away?

• 48:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, well, so I absolutely agree with you that we can talk about gene therapy for tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is great if you're losing your vision, by the way, but, but these are not available to everybody.

• 48:20Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 48:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I just got back from Africa a few months ago and, you know, believe me, there are people in this world that don't care about anti-aging.

• 48:27Ed Mylett?

  Sure.

• 48:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  We also don't call it anti-aging where I come from because anti-aging is a whole group of people who are working on other things. So we call it longevity research. But what, if there was one thing you asked me that I could give advice, or maybe a few things, the first would be eat less often. There are studies that have been done with my colleagues at the National Institute of Health. They gave mice who have very similar metabolons to us, very different diets. They wanted to know, is it better to eat more meat or to eat more carbohydrate or more fat?

• 48:57Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 48:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  Big debate. And the result blew me away.

• 49:01Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 49:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  He found that it wasn't better to eat more meat. He found it wasn't better to eat more fat, and it wasn't better to eat, better to eat more carbohydrate.

• 49:09Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 49:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  It wasn't what you ate. All those mice lived a normal lifespan.

• 49:14Ed Mylett?

  How much you ate?

• 49:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  But the ones that ate it in a small time of day, two hours a day, lived 20% longer.

• 49:20Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 49:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  So here's the take of message.

• 49:23Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 49:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  If that's right, it's not so much what you eat, it's when you eat that's important.

• 49:28Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 49:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  And so I've gone on a diet where I restrict when I eat. I try not to eat breakfast, try not to eat lunch. That has made me feel a lot, lot better. I'm sharper and I think that I'm going to live longer because of that.

• 49:40Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 49:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's step one.

• 49:42Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 49:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  And in fact, that saves money.

• 49:43Ed Mylett?

  Sure, sure does, right.

• 49:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right. And don't overindulge in anything. Don't just eat all meat, in my view. Don't eat all fat. You want to mix it up, trick your body. Oh, I'm running out of this, I'm running out of that. And even with resveratrol, don't have to take it every day. Take it every other day. Tricks your body. Another thing that's cheap.

• 50:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  Get off your ass.

• 50:06Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 50:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, I typed a book and I, I'm, I think I aged a lot writing this book, actually. But it was worth it. But if you don't get your body into a state of breathlessness, or get your muscles to be tired and sore, your body will say, hey, everything's good. I don't need to fight diseases. I don't need to fight aging.

• 50:24Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 50:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  So you lose your breath, at least a few times a week if you can.

• 50:28Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 50:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  Get on a treadmill. I think forty minutes is great, ten minutes is good.

• 50:32Ed Mylett?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  But anything is better than nothing.

• 50:35Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 50:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, what else is good? So what I do when I go to the gym on Sunday with my son.

• 50:39Ed Mylett?

  You go once a week?

• 50:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, I try to go more.

• 50:42Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 50:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I'm on planes a lot.

• 50:44Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 50:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, but I have a home gym, so I try to do it. But I, I don't, I don't live a perfect life.

• 50:50Ed Mylett?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, it's maybe why I take extra molecules to try and supplement that.

• 50:54Ed Mylett?

  Offset it?

• 50:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, yeah. Uh, but.

• 50:57Ed Mylett?

  Can I tell you?

• 50:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  I finish work about midnight, so it's.

• 50:59Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, you're, you're, you're in that mega achiever, multiple companies, your lab, all the work you do, children, you're at that point where, yeah, sometimes your fitness and your nutrition may take a backseat, right? Which is probably not healthy. One thing you didn't mention that I'm surprised, and I've not heard you talk about this. We don't get happier. So, and I know that's not part of the research necessarily, or maybe it is, but do happy people live longer?

• 51:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  They do. They always do.

• 51:26Ed Mylett?

  Okay, so how come that's not part of what's talked about? Or is it just so anecdotal or silly that it's not discussed? But, but I would think happier people have less stress in their body, probably less inflammation in their body, just by not having that kind of stress.

• 51:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's true. It's true, but one of the reasons we don't talk about it is that we don't understand why it works.

• 51:44Ed Mylett?

  Okay. But it's. As a scientist, you have to be able to prove why it works.

• 51:47Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, yeah, that's why people didn't regard aging as a disease, which I do. We didn't understand why aging happened, so we said, no. It's natural, let's not deal with that. But now, like cancer, we understand, we think how it works. You can focus on that. Now it's okay to say it's a problem. Happiness, wishy-washy, but all of the centenarians, the people that live to 100, they're always happy people.

• 52:09Ed Mylett?

  That's right, right.

• 52:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right. Mind you, if I lived to 100, I'd be pretty happy too.

• 52:13Ed Mylett?

  Right, no, there's a good point.

• 52:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  But they've been happy their whole life.

• 52:15Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 52:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  And that definitely works. But I haven't been happy my whole life. I'm a lot happier now that I'm 50, because I've learned what a bad day is, and most days are not bad days, even if you think they're bad. But yeah, early in my life, I was quite depressed, actually.

• 52:31Ed Mylett?

  We talked a little about that off-camera, so let's just go there for a few seconds. I've told you that the thing that surprised me the most, and I just think it should, here's somebody who's arguably the best person in the world in their field, is doing work that has tremendous meaning. I mean, I don't know that you could do work that has more meaning to mankind than what you're doing right now outside of spiritual work. Yet, you're not always happy. You haven't always been happy in your life. And I think it's important that people know that, because I've told people on my show, the thing that surprised me the most, all these mega achievers, what do they all have in common? Some of it's work ethic, some of it's good fortune, some of it's intellect, but they don't all have those things. The vast majority struggle, to some extent, with a little bit of their mental health.

• 53:12Ed Mylett?

  Do you still, when I met you, when we just embraced, when you first got here, I thought you had an ease and a, honestly, like an elegance about your personality. This is somebody very comfortable with themselves. But as I've started to watch you more, I wonder if there's this dude in there that's a little bit at battle with himself, that's wondering if he's not moving this at the speed that he should, if his work is not where he would like it to be.

• 53:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm a perfectionist and an overachiever. I want to leave the world way better than I found it, at least somewhat better. And I find myself in a position of great responsibility. Now I'm at Harvard and I've got this research. So I'm maximizing my day without sacrificing my family as best I can. But early in my career, because I set such a high goal from an early age. Ever since I was four, I wanted to understand why we age. And wake the world up, why aren't we worried about this? This is not good. We treat cancer, we treat heart disease. We treat frailty, we treat Alzheimer's. But you know what causes all of those things? Aging, why don't we care? And so I've always set that goal.

• 54:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  And there were stages in my life where I thought I wasn't going to achieve anything. I saw that I was stuck in Australia, I thought I was stuck in Australia. I just finished a PhD. There were no jobs for PhDs. Who were studying the sex life of a yeast cell, that's what I trained in. That's awesome. And I thought, what have I done? I've worked myself into such specialization. I'm not going to change the world. I might make some yeast happier, but that's about it. And being inconsequential is worse than death for me. I want to wake up every day feeling as though I'm going to make a difference.

• 54:58Ed Mylett?

  Being inconsequential is worse than death for you. You know what occurred to me as you were saying it? You know, one of the obligations, responsibilities we all have is to create a life that we want to live longer for. And so for the vast majority of you listening to this. You know, one of the things that is so important about all the things you listen to on my show and particularly today is. How about we start creating a life that we can't wait to be around for longer? And anticipation of. One of the things that makes me so excited about today's show, look, I do a lot of shows. I've been so looking for it, by the way, and it's exceeding my expectations. Is because I've been anticipation about the work you do. And I want to ask you about that from a business perspective. Because we don't have that much more time, but there's a lot of entrepreneurs that listen to this.

• 55:41Ed Mylett?

  So this is something I know you've not been asked, but this is also a serial entrepreneur, multiple businesses. Couple I'm going to make me get involved with. But. If you were an entrepreneur, knowing that this... See, if someone could have knocked on my door in 1985 and said, "Hey, the internet's coming. Maybe you ought to start thinking about that as a businessman. This thing's coming, this wave's coming. Start to think strategically about businesses, products, services, methods of delivery that could help there." I feel like what we're describing, this longevity industry, we'll call it that, is the next big wave. And if I were an entrepreneur listening to this, I'd be thinking, "How do I prepare myself? What should I be thinking? What should I be looking at?"

• 56:26Ed Mylett?

  So I know it's a difficult question. But what advice would you give to an entrepreneur who's hearing these things from you and all the possibilities that come along with it? What should they be thinking or doing?

• 56:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. So the world has changed a lot in the last few years. I was the first young guy to start companies on longevity. And if people are wondering, it's all on my website. I've started more than 15 companies. I've helped dozens and I've taken four public.

• 56:54Ed Mylett?

  Awesome.

• 56:55Dr. David Sinclair?

  I reinvest all that money, by the way, in startups and jobs and philanthropy. So I'm not trying to make money, I'm trying to leave the world better. But if someone could have instructed me when I was young, what I would have said to them is, "Identify a trend, and if you don't have the money to invest, get involved in startups, but work with the best people. Don't work with mediocre people." Because the best... Things are gonna get really hard when you start up a company. Things are gonna fail, you may be near bankruptcy, and you wanna be with people that you can trust. So I don't work with assholes anymore. Done with that. Really, that's a first criterion. And, you know, my friends are all like family to me and vice versa. So that's actually one of the best bits about getting older, is you have this group of people you can trust.

• 57:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  But from the outset, I wished that I had always worked with the best of the best. So look for that. If you have a little bit of money, you can invest in something like this. Some of these companies are just getting started, and the field is exploding. So I agree with you that longevity research is gonna make the iPhone look like old news.

• 57:57Ed Mylett?

  I do too. And I love what you said about trends and finding the best people. Those are two huge keys. If you're an entrepreneur thinking about this, you should be thinking about what are the trends? How's it impact the business you're in currently? Right? What are the changes gonna be there? Okay, I have one last question for you, because I'm just fascinated to know this. Are you afraid to die?

• 58:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  Not.

• 58:15Ed Mylett?

  You're not.

• 58:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's an easy question. In fact, I used to be afraid to die when I was in my twenties and thirties because I wanted to see where things would go.

• 58:23Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 58:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  And there's this natural fear in all of us. But I now know that I'm not afraid because I fly a lot and a few times those planes were going down. And I had felt that I was gonna die. It was gonna be sad that I had missed my family. My family would have to do without me. But personally, I'm not worried about that. My wife is the opposite. She grabs under my arm and she's, "I'm gonna die." And I said, "If we die, we die." She's, "I don't wanna die." And I'm just like, as long as it's not too painful, I'm good with it. So letting go of the fear of death was one of the best things I ever did in my life. Because now I can live without fear.

• 58:54Ed Mylett?

  You got it.

• 58:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's the key.

• 58:56Ed Mylett?

  That's why I ask you, David. I really believe that letting go of the fear of dying allows you to live freely now, allows you to embrace it. And I I gotta tell you, like, I'm more excited about life and where it's going and what the possibilities are because someone like you exists in the world. I'm like, I really admire you. And I'm glad we've become friends. You're gonna stick very close to me, just so you know, because I wanna live a long time. But because I'm not afraid to die, but I am excited to see what happens while I live. And I'd like to do it as long as I can.

• 59:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, well, we're gonna be friends because you're an inspiration. You do all the right things with your life.

• 59:31Ed Mylett?

  Thank you. I don't do all the right things, but I know what you mean. I know exactly. I'm trying to do as good in the world and I think we both have a lot in common. We wanna make a difference in other people's lives and make a difference in the world. That line you said, I'm gonna reflect on that tonight about living a life of an inconsequential life is worse than death.

• 59:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, the reason I follow you is that I had bad days. I need inspiration. It's not all easy. And guys like you, we get inspiration from you and you lift us up.

• 59:59Ed Mylett?

  Thank you, brother. Man, I'm so glad I met you. Let's do one more time. I wanna make sure they know where to follow you. I don't know if I've ever had an interview where I've felt more optimistic and learned more. I certainly learned the most today, that's for sure. But where do they find you? Where do you want them to go find you? You wanna see you on Instagram or where should they go?

• 1:00:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, yeah, I'm on all social media.

• 1:00:17Ed Mylett?

  Okay, and where do they find you? What are you on? Put it on the screen on YouTube.

• 1:00:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, sure. We have a website called lifespanbook.com. You can sign up for a newsletter. They also tweet a lot, David A. Sinclair. And Instagram is David Sinclair PhD.

• 1:00:30Ed Mylett?

  Okay, wonderful. David, thank you so much today. I enjoyed this so much. I know you guys did in the audience as well. You gotta share this. You gotta share this. People need to know this information. Give them optimism, give them hope, and give them the strategies to live longer and live better right now. Thank you, Dr. David Sinclair. Everybody, you know that every day to engage with me, follow me on Instagram. We run the Max Out 2-Minute Drill every single day, which means when I make a post, which is 7:30 Pacific, 10:30 Eastern, Monday through Friday, first two to five minutes, make a comment, especially on this video. Make a comment, and you're in a drawing every single day. The other way that you can get in the drawing is to make a comment on people's comments. And if you miss the first five minutes, just make a comment every day on every post. We add up all those people and pick winners as well. You can ride on my jet. You get to meet some of my guests. You get Max Out gear.

• 1:01:14Ed Mylett?

  Come to see me speak live. All kinds of cool things happen. So get involved with the Max Out community on Instagram on the Max Out 2-Minute Drill. God bless you and continue to max out.