The Rejuvenated Cowboys, Most Desperate NFL Teams, Lane Kiffin’s LSU Move, and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal, Todd McShay, and Van Lathan

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Cousin Sal right after the Broncos’ OT win against the Commanders to recap Week 13 of the NFL season (2:45). Then, they discuss the teams with the most depressed fan bases before guessing the lines and Parent Corner (25:14). Finally, Todd McShay and Van Lathan joins the pod to react to Lane Kiffin leaving Ole Miss to coach at LSU (01:24:45). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Cousin Sal, Todd McShay, and Van Lathan Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Michelob ULTRA Courtside could get you closer to the game! michelobultra.com/courtside This episode is sponsored by State Farm®. Don’t settle for just any insurance when there’s State Farm. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Sony Pictures Classics. A perfect crime film, says the Daily Beast. John Tortore gives a career best performance. Don't miss the acclaimed new thriller, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York. Tortore stars as an aging master pickpocket, whose latest score puts him in the crosshairs of a ruthless crime family. It's also starring Giancarlo Esposito, Tatiana Maslany, Will Price, and our guy, Steve Buscemi. See the film that the LA Times calls instantly classic, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York, now playing in theaters nationwide.

• 0:40Bill Simmons?

  The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. We're having new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We're doing Rocky II. It is the last one we haven't done out of the good ones. We've done Creed. We did Rocky III first, Rocky IV, Rocky I. We did Creed, and yet we haven't done Rocky II. And we saved it for last. It's a complicated movie, a little flawed, very beloved. Lots of good stories, a lot of good research coming out of it. This will be a really good podcast. Me, Chris Ryan, Van Lathan. So that's going to be up Monday night. You can watch it on Spotify. You can listen to it on Spotify. You can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts,

• 1:23Bill Simmons?

  or you can watch it on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel, which has all the big picture stuff as well. Coming up on this podcast, cousin Sal and I reacting off of Denver-Washington overtime. Denver wins, but a pretty fascinating Week 13, dating back to Thanksgiving and Black Friday. That set up a lot of playoff stuff with Week 14. It's going to be the best football weekend of the year. We're talking about everything we noticed, all the winners and losers. And then normally that's it. We do Guess the Lions, parent corner, and we call it quits. But the Lane Kiffin thing was so interesting this week that I decided to have Todd McShay and Van Lathan on to talk about college football's biggest story. Todd McShay has a podcast with us, has a newsletter with us.

• 2:08Bill Simmons?

  Van is on the College Football Tailgate podcast that we have. But more importantly, Springer tailgate, by the way. More importantly, is a huge LSU fan. So we talked about everything that went on with that story. So big, action-packed podcast today. We're gonna take a break, bring in Pearl Jam, and then Cousin Sal. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like expecting a linebacker on the football field, but getting a line cook. Sure, they both can handle the pressure when it starts heating up, but only one is stopping a touchdown. You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team. So don't settle for just any insurance when it comes to getting help you need. State

• 2:50Bill Simmons?

  Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 3:21Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're recording right after Broncos, Washington, Sunday night, 9 o'clock. We didn't go live tonight. Really fun overtime game. The rare team covers in overtime, but doesn't win. Do you like the overtime rule, Sal? I've asked you this now three times. It felt like they let, it felt like they let Denver score so they could get the ball back because there's no urgency to stop anybody. It's just like, yeah, yeah, run today. We don't really care. They get the ball back. I don't know. There's something I like about it.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Well, it's something I don't like either. This is the best we've had in years. I don't like that the team, I think, I think Tirico said seven out of 11 teams that won the coin toss chose to go on defense first. And it's always the same thing. Your defense is exhausted. Remember, you won a Super Bowl like that. You won the, you know, you would definitely take the ball. You want to give your defense a little, a few extra minutes and, and it almost cost them. I guess it didn't matter, but that's one thing I would do. I don't mind it. I like, it forced them to go for two at the end, right? Because then that was exciting. That gave us an exciting ending because otherwise it's Denver with almost three minutes to get down the field to kick a field goal.

• 4:27Bill Simmons?

  How about this? No PATs in overtime. Just touchdown, two pointers, that's it.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:33Bill Simmons?

  Right? So Denver scores, they go up six, they have to go for two. I think that would have been more fun. Well, that was a big win for Denver because the Pats are big favorites against the Giants tomorrow, though I think both of us probably like the Giants a little bit as an underdog. But assuming the Pats win, we'll be in a two-way tie for the one seed. I'm going to give you a list of craziest playoff developments. We can come back and talk about that game in a second. But would you go with the Pats and Bears are tied for one seeds right now? Would you go the AFC South is completely wide open with three possible playoff teams? The Chiefs are two games back for a wild card. Your Cowboys have a chance not only to make the playoffs, but to win the NFC East.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  What?

• 5:17Bill Simmons?

  Or would you go that seven and 10 might win the AFC North and somehow the Bengals are still alive? Out of those five things, what's the most improbable to you?

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Bill, they're so close. They really are just so close. I think I'm going to go with the first one. And I think Fandel agrees with me that the Bears being a number one seed, and yet they are seventh in the NFC odds-wise to win the conference. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I got some backing there, but they're all really freaky, really, really stupid year.

• 5:49Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's funny because that next week, which we'll do guess the lines later, week 14 is incredible. It's like the best slate. It's like huge playoff implications, some teams that, including the Chiefs who actually have to win now. They can't fuck around anymore. But there was some good stuff this week. Thursday was great. Thursday was probably, I think, the best start to finish Thanksgiving football day unless you're a Ravens fan. But just the first two games were awesome. Usually on the West Coast, we're eating during the second game. That game, I didn't even feel like I caught all of it. I'm sure you did. If you're in the East Coast, you watch during the first game and then Borough had this magical comeback through his hat back in the ring. But can you remember three better Thanksgiving games?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  No, and I was worried. It's funny. Two weeks ago, I was like, oh, my stupid Cowboys ruined this just beautiful slate they put forward for us. And then Cowboys won last week, beat the Eagles, KC won, and probably in the fourth quarter against the Colts. It was like, this was set up perfectly. No, it was, it was great. I wish I had won money. I couldn't celebrate too long for the Cowboys, because I had those effing Ravens on a teaser and every teaser. So that was that.

• 6:59Bill Simmons?

  Well, we gotta do it. We gotta talk about it. America wants to know.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  What is it?

• 7:05Bill Simmons?

  The Cowboys are like, good. Like, it might be a real playoff team. You have a chance to catch this, I don't know how you would describe this Eagles team. Their fans hate them. They're an absolute eyesore to watch. Their defense, which we were praising two weeks ago in this podcast, seems like it's gone sideways. I don't understand what's happening with them at all. There was some good videos over the weekend of just like Jalen Hurts mechanic stuff, quarterback receivers on the, on the wrong pages. They, they just seem like a mess. I thought they were going to fire their offensive coordinator yesterday. They didn't. But, um, but your team, you, you have two of the best seven receivers in the league?

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 7:51Bill Simmons?

  Two of the best eight, two of the best six? Whatever the list is, both of those guys are on.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  I mean, Jefferson, I don't know what these guys do anymore. No, it's, it's, uh, it's great. It's very exciting. I wouldn't want to play this offense if I were any other team, right? The defense is coming alive. Quinnon Williams already like three times as many pressures as he had with the Jets. So that trade, yes. And yet emotionally, I still am pissed at them that they lost to Arizona, you know? Like, I'll get over that in like three weeks. But I'm, I'm, I'm really pumped about it. It made Thanksgiving fun. The problem is, we have another elimination game Thursday against Detroit, right? And probably maybe for them too. So, uh, do I think it's impossible? I, I think plus 650 to win the division would be the route to take. Um, I don't

• 8:38Speaker 01

  think it's likely, although I wouldn't mind chasing the team whose fans are calling for Tana McKee to jump in there for Jalen Hurts, right? I mean, that, that's a real thing.

• 8:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I did wonder at halftime if he just came out for the second half, how the crowd would have reacted, but I don't think they would have been upset. We have three nine and three teams in the NFC. We have Philly at eight and four, Green Bay eight, three and one, San Fran's at eight and four, and then seven and five, seven and five Tampa, Detroit, seven and six Carolina, your team's six, five and one. 10, six and one.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Did you say San Fran was a, San Fran's?

• 9:15Bill Simmons?

  San Fran's nine and four.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Nine and four, yeah.

• 9:20Bill Simmons?

  10, six and one, is that what the seventh seed, maybe? Or you have to actually win the division, you think?

• 9:27Speaker 01

  I think, I'm looking at San Francisco, they have nine wins, right? So, and still with the Titans and home for the Bears and Seahawks and at the Colts, I think they get to 11. I think the Seahawks get to 11, they have nine. So then there's one more wild card team.

• 9:41Bill Simmons?

  I can see 10, San Francisco losing those last three personally.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Really? Really?

• 9:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, did you watch that Cleveland game closely today?

• 9:48Speaker 01

  I did. I know you had Cleveland. You were very upset with the coach there. What did he do?

• 9:53Bill Simmons?

  Well, that was the dumbest thing we saw today and maybe all month and maybe all season.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  He's a two-time Cody winner.

• 9:58Bill Simmons?

  It's a 10 A game.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:00Bill Simmons?

  The weather's horrible. Your offense sucks. You're on your own 33, it's fourth and one. You have the wind at your back. The wind's about to change in five minutes. The Niners have done nothing. They've put together no long drives the whole game. Just fucking punt the ball. Punt the ball, stay up two, your defense is awesome. Make your defense, make a play. Try to pin them in their own 15 and they freaking go for it. I did not think they were gonna get it. They did not get it because they had to do this new thing, this epidemic that we have now with the tush push, not running it with the quarterback. And it feels like it's a 50% chance it's gonna go horribly. How many times does a guy either fumble it or fuck it up or like it just, we went from this play that we were

• 10:45Bill Simmons?

  having meetings for to try to figure out, we have to stop this, it's ruining football. To now, I don't think it's ever gonna work. The Eagles finally lost on it on Friday. Anyway, that was the dumbest thing I saw today or this month.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  That was bad. I almost think, is it a clause in these coaches contracts where they get fired for punting on fourth and one? No matter where they are on the field.

• 11:04Bill Simmons?

  You had the win. It was a 25 mile an hour win.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. And your defense allowed what 250 yards. Like it was definitely a winnable game for sure. It wasn't.

• 11:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that, that was a field position. Let's not fuck around. We should try to win this game 11 to 10.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:17Bill Simmons?

  And anyway.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  San Francisco takes care of, we're talking about their playoff hopes. They kind of just take care of business in those games too.

• 11:23Bill Simmons?

  They do. They, they, you know, they always get the special teams play, but the Browns, they played all the hits. Gave up a big kick return. Their punter, punt return guy, he, he muffed one. They had a kick returner. After a touchdown, just catch the ball and go out of bounds on his own six. Haven't seen that all season. So, uh, Stefanski. I'm not positive what this guy brings to the table. I know he won coach of the year, but I know the Browns fans, it's a very polarizing topic with them.

• 11:52Bill Simmons?

  I don't understand anything I watched from them today, but the bigger point is I know the Niners won convincingly, but I thought the Browns really. Handed them some stuff and I think you can move the ball on them.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  On the 49ers.

• 12:04Bill Simmons?

  Purdy was, Purdy was good today. I gotta give him credit. I thought he had a good game, but.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  He was nifty. He made some good plays and they really like, look, you could love Shador all you want and hope that he's great, but you're, you're going to know how to play him, right? And so he was thrown underneath a lot and really the best was him running for five yards and sliding on fourth and 26 to end the game. He's like, I'm good.

• 12:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we gotta, gotta stay safe for next week.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  He wasn't a first, second, third or fourth round pick. Maybe, I don't know.

• 12:31Bill Simmons?

  If you look at the NFC, you have to grab somebody's spot. So unless you take Philly's spot and Philly's eight and four and you're, you're a game and a half back.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's gotta be Philly.

• 12:41Bill Simmons?

  You need either Green Bay or San Francisco to crater.

• 12:47Bill Simmons?

  I mean, the Browns go at Green Bay, home Cleveland, home Green Bay, at San Francisco, home Detroit.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  The Brown, San Francisco?

• 12:55Bill Simmons?

  I'm sorry, the Bears.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Oh, the Bears, yeah, yeah.

• 12:59Bill Simmons?

  So, yeah, maybe they could go one and four on those, but I, you know, it feels like they're getting better, not worse.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess statistically, we would have wanted the Eagles to win that game. It would have increased our playoff chances. Right. The Bears just staying at eight wins, but I just couldn't, I didn't have it in me to root for the, root for the Eagles at all.

• 13:17Bill Simmons?

  I don't know.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  It's fun while it lasts. It's fine. I get it.

• 13:20Bill Simmons?

  Some of these teams getting better as the year goes along because the season is 100 weeks long.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:26Bill Simmons?

  The Bears, who were 22nd in DVOA heading into that game and had a bunch of either or wins and just seemed like this year's horseshoe up the ass team. They killed the Eagles.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  They did.

• 13:38Bill Simmons?

  They absolutely bullyballed them, ran the ball down their throats. Caleb did not play well, I didn't think, but he had a couple of good scrambles and he made one big touchdown pass. Their defense was good enough, but their offensive line, their running game, like it's a team that felt very wintery. It felt like you could see them in January being kind of a problem. I thought that was an awesome win. I have a few Bears fans in my life, as do you. And it was the first time that they were like, wow, that was like a real football win and capped off with our guy Ben Johnson. Just going nuts in the post game and taking his shirt off.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  It's tough when you take your shirt off because where do you go from there? The pants are expected next, right? Like, what's he gonna do?

• 14:17Bill Simmons?

  I would have saved, I personally would have saved it for wild card, but I get it. He was, he was excited. Also, they're pretty jacked too, Ben Johnson.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  I know.

• 14:25Bill Simmons?

  Like, that goes a little differently if it's Andy Reid, I feel like.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  I love to see, maybe Andy Reid's jacked. Wouldn't that be the most surprising? Add that to your surprising list of playoff tricks. Yeah, yeah, you're right. They completely bullied them at the line of scrimmage, especially in the late third, early fourth quarter, when you thought the Eagles might be able to get back in it. And then I don't, like, like we said, like Hertz, I don't know, what's this guy legacy? I like, what is he? Like, he won two Super Bowls for them. He wasn't a Trent Dilfer type, where he was just like along for the ride. But you would also, you would think that'd be enough to include him in the top five quarterbacks. And we never put him in there. It was always been Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, right? I don't know what order, but it's very strange what, how he's gonna be remembered.

• 15:09Bill Simmons?

  There's like a.

• 15:12Bill Simmons?

  It's like a lack of urgency slash

• 15:16Bill Simmons?

  personality of their offense. And now that Barkley doesn't look like the Barkley from last year, when you watch it, everything just seems really disjointed and you almost want them to go either, you know, up 20 or down 20 for them to actually look like whoever they are. I like when they play with pace. I don't know, they have all these weapons. Like, did Goddard play on Friday? I have no idea. It seemed like he might have been out there. I don't even know. Like, that guy was a couple of years ago. We were talking about him as one of the best tight ends.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  I think a lot of these guys were emotional over the John Madden thing, which was somehow celebrated on every single game. Everybody had their own trophy. It's good.

• 15:55Bill Simmons?

  I mean, you and I loved Madden.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Loved him, yeah.

• 15:58Bill Simmons?

  I think we're all good. We're all good.

• 16:03Bill Simmons?

  How many times can we pay tribute?

• 16:06Speaker 01

  These guys also.

• 16:06Bill Simmons?

  What's gonna happen when Barkley dies? Is this what we're gonna do with Barkley? Like, is this?

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Saquon, he did. I think it was like week six, he died. We haven't, no, Charles you're talking about.

• 16:16Bill Simmons?

  He died as a fantasy guy.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  No, I know. And we did love him. And I even had a better appreciation of him when I watched the Cowboys documentary, how great those calls were. But you're giving these trophies to 24-year-olds, 25-year-olds, who didn't even know Madden. And they know the game and that's it, you know?

• 16:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you have to make up your Madden story. What's your favorite Madden story? I remember one time, the big dog and I were in an elevator and he told me to keep my head up.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Jason Garrett pulled out a turkey leg that he claims he has kept frozen since 1993. I'm calling bullshit on that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

• 16:53Bill Simmons?

  I didn't put that.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  I need proof. Unwrap that thing.

• 16:55Bill Simmons?

  Well, so the Bears, who I think none of us believed in, they play at Green Bay next week. And have a chance to to put down Philly and Philly and then Green Bay and Green Bay next week. The way they run the ball, I can't can't really knock them out of it.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Two out of three weeks, I think, right?

• 17:12Bill Simmons?

  It's a shame. We don't have the playing tournament. I guess we probably not a shame because it'd be terrible. But if we had the playing tournament like in the NBA, I would really like your team. Like Dallas is a playing team, but watch out if they can get in there.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:26Bill Simmons?

  They could beat anybody.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Enjoy it. It starts Thursday against Detroit. That's a playing game and then the next four are also playing games.

• 17:32Bill Simmons?

  Well, you know, it's funny about about your team and just I was thinking about today watching Josh Allen because I didn't think he was great today and then in the second half picked up, but

• 17:43Bill Simmons?

  isn't doesn't maybe he's just getting older. Maybe he's taking some hits, but he had that thing going for a couple of years where he seemed like that giant, that kid who was too big for like the ninth grade football game.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:56Bill Simmons?

  Just wreaking havoc and she's like, oh, man, this isn't fair. This guy's too big for the game and he kind of played NFL quarterback like that. And I don't feel like he's been as physically imposing this year. And then the second half of the game today against the Steelers, he he turned it up a little bit, but this was the year I thought he was going to be the guy like we were going to leave this season. Like that's the best quarterback in the league. I feel like it's open right now. It's a little I I'll make an analogy just for you. It's a little like the year when Hogan stepped away from WWE and they didn't and they was like, ah, Lex Luger and Lex Luger was the WWF title holder for like 10 months. Cause they didn't really know who to put the belt on. I don't know who has the belt for QB right now. So Mahomes is six and six.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:41Bill Simmons?

  So who is it? I mean, your guy is playing as well as anybody.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  I think so. I the only thing I'll caution, we talked about it last week, like the Bills went six and O down the stretch two years ago to make the playoffs. And that's what put Allen right back up there. Yeah, this is a game where I felt like Pittsburgh could have stayed in there and they but they kept the Bills hanging around and then like I just don't get the Bills team. Like you like Pittsburgh as I did because the Bills had two offensive linemen out and the Bills were laying eggs on the road and then they get they set a record, a rushing record for opponents and Accusar and Hines, three rivers, whatever, 249 yards with two offensive linemen out. I don't even know what I watched there. I think this Pittsburgh team is done. We talk about the Bills, but I really think they are absolutely done.

• 19:27Bill Simmons?

  Cook was great and Pittsburgh, this was the second time in three weeks. The other time was the Chargers game when the quarterback played, just they had no chance. And whether he should have played or not, Rogers, I don't know. You know, he fell in that hand once and then it seemed like he was gonna leave and come back, but he was a mess the whole game. Rudolph's not much better. Offensively, they're just impotent. Wasn't always the case. I thought they were gonna be able to run the ball on Buffalo.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:57Bill Simmons?

  And they just couldn't. Then after the game Rogers was taking shots at some of the receivers, but they're six and six and they're in a death match now with Baltimore. And maybe Cincy. Cincy's two back with five to go and they play, they still get to play Baltimore once.

• 20:16Bill Simmons?

  They're at Buffalo next week.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  So that's it for them if they lose, right?

• 20:20Bill Simmons?

  So they have to hope Baltimore and Pittsburgh split because Baltimore and Pittsburgh play twice. So Baltimore and Pittsburgh split.

• 20:28Bill Simmons?

  And then both of them go one and two in the other three games, which I think is really conceivable because Pittsburgh's other three are home Miami, at Detroit, at Cleveland. Baltimore is at Cincinnati, home New England, at Green Bay. And Cincy just has to run the slate and they play at Buffalo, home Baltimore, at Miami, home Arizona, home Cleveland. It's doable.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Again, at Buffalo, if they don't win that, this is, that doesn't matter if Pittsburgh Ravens split or what, but yeah.

• 20:55Bill Simmons?

  But to go back to my Lex Luger thing, Burrow could be the guy that kind of grabs it.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:59Bill Simmons?

  Down the stretch, like, no, actually I'm the best quarterback right now, but I don't know who it is.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  I thought he was great, Burrow, and then I looked, he seemed like he was 24 for 46. That's what he was.

• 21:09Bill Simmons?

  No, he had the swagger though, which I think when you've had Jake Browning and 45-year-old Joe Flacco for 10 weeks.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:19Bill Simmons?

  And then Burrow comes in doing his Joe Burrow stuff and they only, you know, no Higgins. It's really just Chase and a couple.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Even the incompletions, I guess, were ones that they go up for and they just didn't come down with, but everything seemed to be on the money and everything seems great when you're going against Lamar, who I think has seven fantasy points per week over the last three weeks. People are losing their minds.

• 21:39Bill Simmons?

  Well, this goes back to the best quarterback thing. Lamar would have been in that too, and Lamar has looked like, you know, Aaron Brooks in the mid 90s in these games. He's, you don't feel like he. Doesn't move the same way. He's clearly not 100%, not on the same, whatever that offense they run is that does not fit for whatever his talents are. The Henry thing is interesting. Like he only had 10 carries in that game. I thought they were gonna just, you know, bully the Bengals with him and they didn't. I was trying to watch to see if I thought maybe he lost a step or not. I couldn't really tell, but his stats aren't the same.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  He had a thing where every other game he was over 90 yards and I tried to catch him on this. This was the every other and I thought this was, okay, he's gonna run it through Thursday night, beautiful. No, you're right. 10 carries. Like I don't know what that offense. And yet like Fandel loves them. They're minus 220 to win that division because Pittsburgh is so pathetic and since he got off to such a late start.

• 22:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh I think kicked this one away and maybe they weren't that good to begin with. And I was thinking last year Pittsburgh died as we hit, hit the last like third of the schedule. Remember?

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Yep.

• 22:47Bill Simmons?

  They, they were like eight and two or something. They went backwards.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  But this was really it, right? This is like when Tomlin, when they're yelling, fire Tomlin and he says, I sympathize with everyone's frustration. Does that mean when you sympathize, you agree with them? That you should be fired? They have no identity on offense. Rogers, God bless him. He played with broken, you know, bones in his wrist, but then he ends up looking, his face is a mess. He looks like he bet against himself to on a strips and then didn't pay his Croatian bookie. Like he just got his ass beat in.

• 23:18Bill Simmons?

  James Caan in The Gambler.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:20Bill Simmons?

  He's got beat up.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  And then you got TJ Watt. Like it's like, I think six games or seven games with no pressures. Like you paid these guys a fortune on defense. They really, they just have nothing left. I don't like.

• 23:30Bill Simmons?

  They really, really, really blew it with, uh, first not taking Dart. I think if you do that over again, you take him. But then like, I don't know if Sanders is good, not good, mediocre or whatever. But once we get to the fourth round, that's somebody they probably should have taken. And you know, Mason Rudolph comes out there and you just have no faith in. Anything with that dude. Um, let's take a break and then I have a depressing question. Oh, good. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Hey, Missouri. The wait is finally over. FanDuel Sportsbook live in the show me state right now. New customers, you can bet $5 and you get $300 in bonus bets, win or lose. Plus this week only, every customer gets

• 24:14Bill Simmons?

  a no sweat bet every day. So even if your bet doesn't hit, you'll get bonus bets back to keep the action going. Download FanDuel today or head to FanDuel.com/BS and join the excitement. Missouri, it's time to play your game with FanDuel. 21 plus and present in Missouri. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. For a new customer offer, first online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-travelable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. For all customer offer, opt-in require each day. Refund issued as a non-travelable bonus bet that expires seven days after receipt. Max refund $20. Restrictions apply, including token expirations. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. The NBA Cup is back. It's sure to

• 24:59Bill Simmons?

  be thrilling as always. I think the one thing I was like with the NBA Cup, what team is going to come out of nowhere and kind of plant their flag and make us believe in them going forward? Because a big spotlight, national TV, good crowds, who's going to kind of step up in the playoff atmosphere? The best moments are served cold, just like Michelob Ultra, or a refreshing beer with only 95 calories. Plus Ultra is also helping you see all the excitement up close and in person with a chance to win courtside tickets. Michelob Ultra, superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside, 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents. 21 plus begins on October 1st, 2025, ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules

• 25:44Bill Simmons?

  at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. All right, so which fans, which fan base should be the most depressed right now? I'm going to give you Steelers fans, Ravens fans.

• 26:01Bill Simmons?

  Lions fans or Chiefs fans? The case for the Steelers is like, this is done. There's like no light at the end of the tunnel. Even if you somehow sneak out the division, what's going to happen? You're going to win multiple playoff games? That's not happening. And then what, what does your long-term future look like? You don't know who your coach is going to be or your QB. Ravens, you had this first half of the 2020s window with Lamar. That you didn't even get to a Super Bowl.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:32Bill Simmons?

  I don't even know if you want to keep the coach if you're them. You went all in on this Derrick Henry move. Lamar, where, where is that heading? And did you just miss your window? Lions fans, those last two years were your window. You had all these injuries last year. It didn't happen. And now you just moved into the back of the pack. And I don't know if you're coming, you're leapfrogging. You're probably not even making the playoffs. Then the Chiefs fans, it felt like you were headed for a three-peat. Mahomes was in the GOAT conversation. You're six and six. You're two games behind the last wild card spot. You might miss the playoffs when your guy was healthy the whole year, which has never happened with Brady ever.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:14Bill Simmons?

  When, at any point of when he was actually Brady.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  I know you like throwing that in there. Yeah.

• 27:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm going to mention that every time. So who's the most depressed out of those four? Steelers, Ravens, Lions, Chiefs?

• 27:24Speaker 01

  This is easy for me. I mean, unless you're like a 25-year-old Steelers fan. You've had history. You've had, you know, I'm going to count that, right? I'm going to count that for the Ravens. You've seen playoff games. The Chiefs, forget it. You've won Super Bowls. If you're saying looking forward, yeah, these teams all kind of might be done. But the Lions, the Lions, because they never got over the hump. They had the great coach that everybody wanted, Dan Campbell, who I'm not sure is the, is the right fit now anymore. You know, you had the excuse last year where you had like 20 guys on IR. 16 of them were on defense. Oh, our defense is going to be back. They were miserable against the Packers, just miserable. And you got the two fastest guys on the planet and you can't figure out how to score 30 points a game. You're stuck with like 17 midway through the fourth. So I think that they're a head-scratcher of a team.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  I'm most disappointed in them because I had money on their futures. But um, yeah, I think, I don't know. Which one do you go with?

• 28:16Speaker 01

  I mean, the Packers are biting more kneecaps than the Lions. I'll tell you that.

• 28:20Bill Simmons?

  The Chiefs fans, at least they can point to the Super Bowls and, and you could talk yourself into a hundred excuses. We had Brady seasons like that where the team didn't have it and you just kind of regroup and retool. Ravens fans is a tough one because you never really had your moment with Lamar in the playoffs.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 28:38Bill Simmons?

  You didn't have one postseason. You're like, well, like even Buffalo, they got close with Allen, where Allen actually, 13 seconds came, Allen came through with his part and then the defense blew it. They had things to point to where they're like, well, yeah, yeah, but we didn't win, but we at least had this. The Ravens is just like a kick in the nuts every year in the postseason. And now it looks like they're gonna win the division by going eight, nine? I think that's pretty ignominious. But I think I agree with you on the Lions fans because they, it felt like a week ago, they were the next hot team. And now it just feels like it's over. And then on top of it, this wonderkin offensive coordinator dude they had, that

• 29:21Bill Simmons?

  sometimes those guys leave and then they suck as head coaches, but it actually seems like he's really good.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:27Bill Simmons?

  And that was a big part of your success, which I don't, there's not a lot of parallels for that, where you had this awesome offense and it was like, well, who, who gets it? But then you see him in the Bears, like doing this with a quarterback that really only completes 47, 48% of his passes, right? And he's just kind of figured out how to keep them good. I think I'd be the most bummed out if I was a Lions fan.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the worst move Campbell made this year is admitting that he's calling the plays. All right, man, you got, you got the best in the world. You're calling the plays. That should, that should last for more than one week, the success rate. And then, uh, yeah, you're right. I mean, you lose too many coordinators. That's a problem. But to me, I actually thought the offense, I didn't think Goff was terrible on Thursday. I, I was disappointed in that defense. They just could not get to him. Like, those ballsy, ballsy moves by LaFleur, going for it on fourth and six and pretending to go for it and then calling a timeout. Like, all right, they're gonna kick here. I'm like, oh my God, they are going for it. And then they just put the game away. They're like, we don't care. We're better than you.

• 30:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the, I was really worried about them without Kraft, but, um, You know, they, they were getting it done. So to make the playoffs, just to put a bow on this, Ravens are still minus 220 to make the playoffs, which you mentioned. KC was even two hours ago. Now in Fanduel, it's like plus 104. Detroit's plus 120 and the Steelers are now plus 250. And they were in, I mean, think of the position they were in. What were they, four and two or five and one, whatever they were? And the Ravens were one and, one and four with limping around Lamar. Like you, they had a three game lead over them.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  You and I needed therapy. They were one and five and Fanduel had them as a slight underdog. Like what, what are we missing here?

• 31:07Bill Simmons?

  I know. Next time we know, just bet on it. Then you have the Jags minus 450 to make the playoffs, which I think is insane. I know. I looked at their schedule. I know they have wins, but I still don't trust them. Colts minus 300, Texans minus 140 and, and the Chargers are minus 162. The interesting thing about the Chiefs, I actually think their odds should be a lot worse to make the playoffs.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:31Bill Simmons?

  Because they lost to Jacksonville, the Chargers and Buffalo, three of the teams that they would, you know, potentially be in like a two-way tie, three-way tie, four-way tie for the six seed, seven seed, whatever. I don't really see a scenario where they make it unless they run the slate. And even if they run the slate, is that even going to be enough?

• 31:53Speaker 01

  It really might not be. And yeah, like you said, they lose as tiebreakers. I mean, we have so many elimination games next week. We have Detroit, Dallas, we have Houston, KC, which is a night game. Cincinnati will be eliminated if they beat, if they lose to Buffalo. It's a lot of fun. Then you have all that AFC South mess ahead of you. But I, I think everyone's afraid to bet against the Chiefs, but they know that plus number is insane for them to make the playoffs at this point. It's the way they're playing.

• 32:20Bill Simmons?

  Advanced metrics heading into this week, they were fifth DVOA.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:24Bill Simmons?

  They're playing two of the best defenses in their last five, Houston and Denver, but both of those are home. Denver might not even care at that point, though maybe they'll have the division locked up. They'll only care about one versus two. Then they have at Tennessee at Vegas, which is two easy wins, but you look at their losses, Sal. They've lost to the Chargers, Eagles, Jags, Bills, Broncos and Cowboys. So six like playoff or borderline playoff teams and they've only beaten Baltimore, Detroit and Indianapolis. So they're three and six against good teams, which to me is a sign you're not good.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  And the one score games too. Complete 180 from last year where I think they went 11-0 in one score games. They, they won, what was, oh, I guess the Colts was a one score game, but aside from that, just loss after loss after loss.

• 33:13Bill Simmons?

  As opposed to Houston, who's seven and five, who didn't have their starting quarterback for three weeks at one point.

• 33:21Bill Simmons?

  They have four losses to the Rams, Tampa, Seattle and Denver. Not bad. I mean, those are three of the six best teams in the league and Tampa. But they have wins against now Baltimore, San Francisco, Jacksonville, Houston, Buffalo and Indy. So they played 10 playoff teams, basically, and they're six and four. And I thought they had a really good win, which I want to talk about right now with, with that Indianapolis game that,

• 33:47Bill Simmons?

  once again, that D'Amico Ryans, he had another game management thing where they're up four. And I, I don't know, they were, the announcers were like, oh, interesting. He's going for it here. And it's like, kick a field goal. You go up seven. You've stopped these guys all game. Daniel Jones can't move. These guys, oh, the analytics say this. It's like, read the game sometimes. You go up seven, you're probably winning the game. I don't think the Colts are going all the way down the field. All of a sudden they're on their heels, but they ended up, uh, they ended up winning that one. But what you, did you watch that whole game? Cause I thought that was the most fascinating game.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  You're gonna laugh at me. I know you're all over Houston and you saw Houston's promising ending before a lot of us, but I, Indy was my best bet. Like I thought.

• 34:28Bill Simmons?

  Did you know Jones was that compromised though?

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I thought he was, but I'm like, and then I looked at like Jonathan Taylor's had amazing games against Houston, like 188 yard game like last year against them. Is it four?

• 34:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Over one. Like, that's it. They're just gonna figure out the, the game plan. I, I, although I didn't think it would be that Daniel Jones couldn't take off once ever. Yeah, right? I might have gone against it that way. So you had the better team. I got it wrong. Sauce being out early might have made things different. That wasn't great. But, uh, and also it might have been different if the refs recognized what a missed extra point looked like. Uh, our friend Adam Corolla is right. Just extend the post to the moon. Who cares?

• 35:08Bill Simmons?

  It's fine. Some laser beam or something. There's gotta be some way to improve that. So Houston had-

• 35:14Speaker 01

  They're definitely not the same without a running quarterback.

• 35:17Bill Simmons?

  Indy had the ball for 25 minutes. They're three for 10 on, for, on, for, on a third down.

• 35:25Bill Simmons?

  Houston, to close the game out, they have a third and one and a fourth and one. And they do the thing where they just run the ball up the middle, even though they can't-

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:34Bill Simmons?

  Really run the ball when you know they're gonna actually run the ball. But then they still snuck the game out. I think Houston's good.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:41Bill Simmons?

  Like, when I think about that, I'm in that mode now, thinking of the Pats playoff opponents, like, uh, Houston's a nightmare matchup. Their defense is, uh, that Will Anderson is in the running for best defensive player I've watched week to week this year.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 35:55Bill Simmons?

  You know who's actually in there is Crosby. Crosby's unbelievable in these Raider games. He's like, he's got 10 unbelievable plays during these, and nobody else on his team is good. But, uh, I'm really afraid of that defense. And they can run the ball just enough. Collins is good. They, Stroud, I'm not a huge fan of, but he'll make a play every once in a while. And, and really their biggest thing that would worry me if I was a Texans fan is the game management stuff. But I think they're better than seven and five.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  I think if you're the Chiefs this week, would you rather play Houston, Jacksonville, or Indianapolis? I think for sure-

• 36:31Bill Simmons?

  Houston's my third choice out of that.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Even though they lost to Jacksonville. Definitely Jacksonville. Definitely the Colts, who they beat, whatever. Houston, you don't want to go up and take chances against that defense right now.

• 36:42Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's funny, when we talk before the year and we're figuring out the futures, which- I don't, I don't think we did that well on the 32 over unders, but I think our locks were pretty good this year.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Do you want to know what we are right now?

• 36:55Bill Simmons?

  We're probably somewhere around 500 or a little better, I would guess.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Chris Haynes, a good guy, keeps track for us, and that's all he does. He has no job other than to keep track of these stats.

• 37:04Bill Simmons?

  Thanks, Chris.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're not going to pay him or anything, but you're six and six, I'm seven and five. We both had New England over, Seattle over, Washington under, many under. You had Cincy under and Chicago over. I had Casey and Baltimore under and Jacksonville.

• 37:18Bill Simmons?

  We hit Denver today, right? Denver was nine and a half.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. So that just went final. Right. Yeah. So that one, we both had that. Yep.

• 37:24Bill Simmons?

  But I think of the ones that we liked the most, I think we were on the right side with those.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:29Bill Simmons?

  Denver, Patriots, but the one, the division that we just.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Seattle. Yep.

• 37:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Seattle was another one. Washington under. I like Chicago. The division we couldn't figure out was that AFC South.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:45Bill Simmons?

  It was like, I don't want to take Houston. Please tell me what other team to take. We hated the other teams. You kind of like Jacksonville?

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was, that's who I had to win it. I don't know. I want to give them more credit than we normally do, but they also have the benefit of having the worst team of maybe the decade in that division. It's just an automatic two wins against Tennessee.

• 38:05Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  I mean, good God. Well, 25-3, was that the final today?

• 38:10Bill Simmons?

  Was, uh, they took a lead early, which you have to do, and then it just unfolded like every Tennessee game this year, except Tennessee never had like the two late touchdowns to make the score respectable. Who, um, if I gave you Cowboy fans, Panther fans, or Bengals fans, who should be the most irrationally excited now out of those three? Cowboys, Panthers, or Bengals?

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Irrationally excited means the door is going to get slammed on their fingers in a minute?

• 38:39Bill Simmons?

  Just out of your mind tomorrow morning. They're at work. All they're talking about is the team.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Let it be Panthers. Let it be the Panthers.

• 38:45Bill Simmons?

  I think it's Panthers.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Let them think they have a chance. That's fine.

• 38:48Bill Simmons?

  Ten and a half point underdogs today at home. You had, you had the Rams in a couple parlays.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's funny. You pointed it out immediately like you after like the first Stafford pick.

• 38:57Bill Simmons?

  Your profile.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  You're like, oh, the Rams. I know. I'm pretty, I'm pretty readable.

• 39:01Bill Simmons?

  You had college football, boxing. There was some NBA. They just fit your profile.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  You said, say goodbye to South Street team teasers as soon as Stafford threw that first interception. He didn't look good early, but that defense was.

• 39:12Bill Simmons?

  It had the feel immediately.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  That defense was soft. That was the thing. And I, and I do, you, we believe in trap games like it's, you know, not enough to skip a three team teaser with them, but uh, they went from Seattle and Tampa at home. Big wins going out east. We saw the Chargers do this in Jacksonville. They get smoked. We should look for this. West coast teams going east. I don't think it's paying off. But Bryce with three touchdown passes and like 164 yards rushing. They out physical the Rams. Reminded me of what Chicago did with Philly the other day.

• 39:44Bill Simmons?

  Bryce was legitimately solid in that game and he's been up and down and there's been referendums on him all year on whether they should extend him. Can he actually be the quarterback? They're just the zigzag team. They're like, uh, we always talk about seventies heavyweights when we talk about these, how we think of these teams. They're like the Ken Norton. They might get knocked out. They might knock somebody out. You just don't know. Week to week, I have no idea what to expect with them. He catches them on the right week. They're pounding the ball with the running game. Bryce is running around. McMillan looks like that might've been a really good pick for them.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:20Bill Simmons?

  I was a little nervous about it, but apparently that was the right one. But yeah, there's seven and six.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Look at their last eight. It just zigzags. It makes no sense. The wins and losses. It really doesn't. But I, you know, I say it rationally because they're plus four, 60 to win the division. I think plus four, 10 to make the playoffs. Their four left are two against Tampa, at New Orleans and versus Seattle. So you expect them to sweep Tampa? I don't think, I don't think it's in the cards there.

• 40:48Bill Simmons?

  So their best wins, they beat Dallas, Green Bay and the Rams.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  Ah, Jesus.

• 40:56Bill Simmons?

  They lost to New England, Buffalo and the Niners. They were 27th at DVOA heading into today. I mean, that was the biggest upside of the, of the season, I think. There, there were other bigger point spread ones. Like was, we had like a 13 and a half. What was the biggest one this year?

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Who was it?

• 41:11Bill Simmons?

  There was a bigger point spread.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Buffalo lose to Miami, Buffalo.

• 41:15Bill Simmons?

  Buffalo Miami, I think might've been bigger.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  That was a, that was a.

• 41:17Bill Simmons?

  But I thought this was the most important upset. It changed the NFC, like it knocked the Rams down. Now all these teams have a chance for the one seed. It kept the NFC South interesting. Cause I assume Tampa's gonna beat New Orleans next week, although shut look good today. Did you see that game?

• 41:37Speaker 01

  He did. I really didn't see much of it. I bet him to throw an interception. He did.

• 41:40Bill Simmons?

  He's pretty good in that game.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  And then I just like turned it aside. I know it was a bad, bad beat. I know they had the two-point conversion run back. That was bad.

• 41:47Bill Simmons?

  Carolina just has to stay within a game of Tampa, cause then they play in week 16 and week 18.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:53Bill Simmons?

  So, and then Tampa has Miami in week 17 at Miami, which is no longer an easy game.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Nothing's easy for them.

• 41:59Bill Simmons?

  Miami's five and seven though.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  They're very, they're very weird. Like you almost immediately knew that's how that game was gonna go. Like they were, they were gonna let Arizona back into it. And I guess the best thing that, that we could say about him is like Bucky Irving's back, right? So maybe the offense picks up, but Baker does look like.

• 42:16Bill Simmons?

  Godwin was back too. Supposedly McMillan's coming back. Baker didn't look 100% to me, but whatever. Stafford's MVP case got a little wobbly today.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 42:25Bill Simmons?

  The Panthers, we were ready to cross them off. Can't cross them off. 41 runs.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  I think we can cross off five teams next week. It's gonna be a cross off.

• 42:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, next week's a cross off. Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Better buy some new picks.

• 42:40Bill Simmons?

  I wrote down in my notes for Tampa, I've never seen anyone try harder to host a Shaky's game than Tampa. Even today with Arizona, they were just testing. They were like, we can't beat them too convincingly. We gotta let them hang around. What was that, 2017? Final.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  It's so funny. I was thinking that about Houston. I was, I wrote the same thing down. I was like, no one's still in our Shaky's game, not just yet. Cause they were usually the home team. They were the match.

• 43:05Bill Simmons?

  Houston might be too entertaining for the Shaky's game.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, they might be.

• 43:08Bill Simmons?

  Their defense is fun. One thing with the Jags, they got banged up today.

• 43:13Bill Simmons?

  They lost their left tackle concussed. So that means he's probably almost definitely not playing next week. Parker Washington got hurt. I think they're down like five or six starters now. So even though their odds are pretty good for the playoffs, I'm still a little dubious. They're at Indianapolis. They're playing the Jets who've been good now for five weeks for a bad team. At Denver, at Indy, home Tennessee. If I had to pick with those odds, like a team to short, I think I would pick the Jags and the Colts would be second. Cause I thought Dimes could have moved today.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Did you say 450 for the playoffs for Jacksonville?

• 43:46Bill Simmons?

  They're minus 450.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  480 I'm saying, wow, that's a, wow. Yeah, that's high. That's too high.

• 43:53Bill Simmons?

  And then the other one is the Chargers. Herbert broke his left hand today, but apparently he's gonna play next week.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  He wants, so he gets the extra day. Yeah.

• 44:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  It doesn't bode well for these guys playing with busted up bones like Daniel Jones and, and Aaron Rodgers, but he is a gamer, Herbert.

• 44:11Bill Simmons?

  I had to watch that entire game, as did you, I'm sure, because there's only three late games. Granted, we had three Thanksgiving games and a Friday game and then a Sunday night game.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:22Bill Simmons?

  But it meant that we had to watch Chargers Raiders and they fired their offensive coordinator last week.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:28Bill Simmons?

  Added a new one. I didn't really notice any difference. It just seemed like when in doubt, just try to throw it to Brock Bowers and hope he catches it. The Chargers, the only interesting thing out of that game for me is just Kamani Vidal.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:43Bill Simmons?

  As a fantasy football playoffs, just wild card. Who was it last year? Was it Chuba Hubbard?

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Chuba Hubbard, sure. Yeah.

• 44:51Bill Simmons?

  He was the wild card last year. It feels like Vidal is gonna be the guy.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's like a poor man's Jameer Gibbs, I think, at this point, right?

• 44:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think he's won that job. Hampton had a setback, so that could be the, that could be the one. And then we didn't talk about, we didn't talk about Prosser.

• 45:12Bill Simmons?

  Brosmer must went full the loam.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Oh, he was so close.

• 45:16Bill Simmons?

  He was so close.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  I, I think, you know, I like him and I like these guys coming on and I liked to research on him and his girlfriend and they met and kind of like, oh, this is interesting. But it's like a drunk, rich dude showing up at a poker game and who play, and he plays recklessly and you know it from the start. You're like, yeah, come on, just sit down, come on. Let's take your money.

• 45:36Bill Simmons?

  Me, Chelsea Phillips.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  But that.

• 45:38Bill Simmons?

  And here's my friend Damon Jones.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Can you read the back of these cards? Good. Neither can I. That pick six was magical. That was just.

• 45:46Bill Simmons?

  It was the play of the year. Was there a better play this year?

• 45:50Speaker 01

  I don't know. It was really great. And you know, you talk about like, oh, they, they, they used all the good games for Thursday and Friday. That pick six made the whole Sunday worthwhile. And I think we saw like four of the best catches we'll ever see today. Just like Bowers and Traylon Burks and Nakua, and even the interception that the Chargers made on the, on Gino the first time.

• 46:12Bill Simmons?

  Well, I had, I, I was in a, in the fantasy league that I truly care about, our knockout league.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:17Bill Simmons?

  Which I haven't won since 2007. And the website has a list of all the champions and 2007 is like, there's not people who can, can serve in the military. Who were born after I last won. Like, it's really embarrassing.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  You've made thousands of dollars since 2007. It's a long time. Yeah.

• 46:38Bill Simmons?

  Well, and I had bad luck this year because I lost Evans and Tyreek, but I, I, I was kind of crawling my way back in for a playoff spot. And I really needed the Seahawks defense and Myers.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 46:49Bill Simmons?

  Today in these late games.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 46:51Bill Simmons?

  So every time Brosmer's going back to pass, I'm like, throw us one, throw us one. And he did. He, he, I got a pick six, I got all these sacks. The Seahawks defense in our league had 29 points. We just have a normal scoring league.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Myers and the Seahawks must've had 50 for you.

• 47:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it had 48 points. Myers had 19 points.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 47:12Bill Simmons?

  The Seahawks defense had 29 and I beat our friend, the T man, the defending champ, who I think is now out. And he's out because the Seahawks defense and kicker had 48 points.

• 47:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:22Bill Simmons?

  I see, I'm in the mode where like, I think a shutout should be like 20 points. There's like five shutouts a year.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. There are just too many bad quarterbacks though to kind of reward it is the other thing now. I mean, you get a Brosmer in there. It's just a, just a, just a gift, but they're your regular defense anyway, right? It's not like you picked them up.

• 47:41Bill Simmons?

  Right. Well, there was an exciting moment at the end. They punted the Seahawks. It's 26 nothing with like a minute left and they punted and they downed it on the two. And I said, come on, let Rosler, let him cook one more time. Uh, he was really bad.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  They're the first team to have two quarterbacks throw a pick six in their first start in the same year.

• 48:04Bill Simmons?

  Is that true?

• 48:04Speaker 01

  That's very good. Yep.

• 48:06Bill Simmons?

  I was waiting, I was waiting for an hour for the cut of Justin Jefferson, sitting sadly by himself. And they finally gave it. It was a new one. He wasn't even on a bench. He was like sitting in the Gatorade buckets with his helmet off. Just trying to figure out, just trying to deconstruct what's happened to his life. I felt bad for him. I think he's got to fake a calf strain.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  He, he didn't speak for the first time since 2022 after the game, they said.

• 48:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Cause he, he could actually get really hurt with some of these passes that these guys throw. Cause they're sailing them high right into traffic, but I think calf strain. What are they going to do? Like calf strain seems like the injury you would fake.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 48:47Bill Simmons?

  Like, no, that, that, cause then everyone's so afraid of the Achilles tear. Okay. So we have, we're new guest alliance unless there's anything else you want to hit.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Uh, I'm trying to think, uh.

• 48:59Bill Simmons?

  Cause we can hit the other stuff when we do.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Let me just say real quick with the Jets thing, like the Jets beating the Atlanta and you know, I, I just. Root for your team. Just root for your team. It's good when your team wins. I mean, you, you could be a tank tool. I know you're a tank tool in the NBA, but just root for your team. Don't worry about these dumb draft picks. Tom Brady was a sixth round pick. The Mavs got the number one pick last year in hoops. Tanking doesn't really work. Once in a while you'll get a Wemby, but in general. Pull for your fricking, stop rooting for faceless draft picks, right? You got 50,000 fans risking pneumonia at MetLife. You root for your team to do good. Aaron Glenn gives a game ball to Nick Folk, who he was a teammate of with Dallas. Ty Taylor's going nuts. Root for your damn team.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Don't worry about the draft picks. I'm sick of it, Simmons. Don't you clap? You do the same thing. You're a tank tool.

• 49:51Bill Simmons?

  I would have rooted for the Jets this year because there's no consensus number one pick. Who am I rooting for? Last year was different.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Well.

• 49:59Bill Simmons?

  And I think two years ago was different, too.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Last year, Cooper Flag was consensus, right?

• 50:04Bill Simmons?

  Same for the football.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  No, I get it. I'm just saying, like, it doesn't always work your way anyway. Whatever. Just root for your team.

• 50:14Bill Simmons?

  Listen, we're never gonna agree on this. I respect your position.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  This cellar dweller positioning bullshit. You're a tank tool, Simmons.

• 50:24Bill Simmons?

  If you want to tank, I have a suggestion. Hire Raheem Morris. He is now 33 and 55. There's only three coaches in the history of football who've done worse with 55 losses. Romeo Corral was 32 and 63. Walt Keisling was 30 and 55. And Joe Bugle was 25 and 56. He is in the Mount Rushmore of terrible 55 losses and overcoaches.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  There's no one who's been labeled the tanker, right? We haven't had a coach that we've labeled. There should be a tank. We have a clapper. We have a, you know, the DJ.

• 51:02Bill Simmons?

  The sad thing is they can't tank because the Rams have their pick, which is like the stealth version of OKC having the Mavericks pick or Clippers pick.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  You see what I mean? Thinking about all this stuff all the time? Just go out and win.

• 51:12Bill Simmons?

  I'd be thinking about if I was a Rams fan, that might be like the fifth pick. Listen, it's the same shit every week. They do dumb stuff. They have special teams fuckups. Today they had another one. Like, they always shoot themselves in the foot. If it's a close game at the end, you know they're gonna blow it. And, uh, you know, they're, they're all in with Penix and Cousins. And they have no pick next year and they're, what are they, four and eight now? Three and nine? Something terrible?

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Four? Well, that's the other thing. The, the, the graphics, the Fox and CBS, they have to stop with this. When they do the playoff picture, they'll still have in the hunt. Like, in the hunt. Atlanta, four and eight, like. San Francisco's

• 51:54Bill Simmons?

  What are they hunting for?

• 51:55Speaker 01

  What are you hunting? Yeah, they're in the hunt like, like, like I'm in the hunt for Michelle Pfeiffer. You know.

• 52:01Bill Simmons?

  They're hunting in garbage cans for food.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Give me a break. Yeah, they're not in the hunt. Leave the graphics guy alone.

• 52:11Bill Simmons?

  We're, we're gonna take a break and then talk about a pretty awesome.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:16Bill Simmons?

  Week 14 that includes Bears Packers, Steelers Ravens Colts Jags, all for first place. Cowboys Lions on Thursday Night Football and Texans Chiefs on Sunday night.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Bills Bengals. It's all good.

• 52:29Bill Simmons?

  It's all coming next. All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down, ready to watch the game, only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows your live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home screen. No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV. Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary. This episode is brought to you by Expedia. You know how at the end of the season, your team goes to Cancun? Sometimes earlier than expected, sometimes after blowing a 3-1 series lead, but what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness, though, hopefully your team doesn't go to Cancun. 1-2-3 Cancun.

• 53:14Bill Simmons?

  Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save. Savings vary. All right, Sal, guess the Lions. You won last week. I'm still winning for the season. I'm up a couple of games. You're like the Cowboys. You have a puncher's chance.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Let's do it.

• 53:31Bill Simmons?

  And speaking of the Cowboys, your team is playing on Thursday night.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:36Bill Simmons?

  Lions Cowboys.

• 53:39Bill Simmons?

  Is, this is probably the best Thursday night game we've had for the stakes. We've had good Thursday night matchups. This one's a great one. Detroit, roller coaster ride with Frank Ragnow, who's gonna come back to be their center. And the Lions were like, oh, Ragnow's back. And then he failed his physical.

• 53:57Bill Simmons?

  So now they have to look at the other center and be like, no, no, we still love you though.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:01Bill Simmons?

  You're gonna do great.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. Yeah. We're keeping you around. Yeah, I was thinking about that and like how, I'm like, oh my God, that's a good, that's a smart thing to do. Sit out three quarters of the year and come back for when it matters. And then he failed. I mean, I'd hate to say someone's, it's a fake diagnosis, even though we just did that about Justin Jefferson, but uh, you think the league is just like, no, no, no, we're not doing this anymore. Come on.

• 54:26Bill Simmons?

  Well, it hurts my Aaron Donald case for Aaron Donald coming back in like week 16. Just been like, hey, guys, I'm ready.

• 54:34Bill Simmons?

  The Lions are gonna be favored. It's either gonna be two and a half or three. And I'm gonna say Lions in Detroit favored by two and a half.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Okay, good. That's what I said. It is three.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  Either one's fair, I think.

• 54:52Bill Simmons?

  We did Ringer 107 on a Tuesday and I loved the Cowboys against the Chiefs and we ended up parlaying it with the Eagles money line.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Saw that.

• 54:59Bill Simmons?

  As a pick, instead of just taking the points and I have a lot of regrets.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Same kind of thing. Three points, although they were home. Yeah, I don't know. The one that scares me, I actually think we have the better team right now. But Dan Campbell hates us so much. He really does. Just despises the Cowboys. Maybe it doesn't matter.

• 55:24Bill Simmons?

  I think with these Thursday night games, we just have to remind ourselves over and over again that they don't make sense and they're not an accurate reflection of what would happen on a normal Sunday.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:34Bill Simmons?

  So you just gotta think of that. Like there's a chance where Pickens has 230 yards receiving. There's a, there's a scenario of this game where Gibbs is 15 for 220. And then three for 90 receiving and just has like 40 fantasy points. There's a scenario where golf just sucks and has the golf face.

• 55:55Bill Simmons?

  I'm ready for anything.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 55:57Bill Simmons?

  I can't wait. It's gonna be a great game. So it's a loser leaves town match.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 56:02Bill Simmons?

  No question, right? If the Lions lose, I think they're done.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  Well, they can't catch Detroit, uh, Green Bay like now, now they, well, I mean, it wouldn't be a tiebreaker anyway, because they have a, they have a tie, an actual tie at Green Bay, but no, they, they, they can't lose for a while. They're in trouble.

• 56:18Bill Simmons?

  Well, do, can we safely say nine wins, nine wins, nine wins, eight wins, eight, three and one, nine wins. NFC South, 11 wins is, is the entry point for a wild card spot.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 56:33Bill Simmons?

  Right?

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Not, not all three, I don't think. Think all three will have that one?

• 56:37Bill Simmons?

  I got Chicago at nine and three. I got Seattle at nine and three.

• 56:42Bill Simmons?

  And I have Green Bay at eight, three and one, and San Francisco nine and four. Like, it's 11, it's gonna be 11 wins.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  I guess you're right. Yeah, I've been saying it all. I just didn't, hadn't heard it like that. I just didn't think, I wasn't sure Detroit was even gonna get to 10. Cowboys at Rams, Steelers at Vikings, at Bears. It's gonna be tough.

• 57:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, maybe it's, maybe it's not an official loser leaves town match because six losses can still get you there.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Sounds better. We'll sell more tickets that way if we call it that.

• 57:09Bill Simmons?

  Maybe we'll make it a, what was the match after the first match in the trilogy, WWE in the eighties? Their steel cage was the third match. First match was normal.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  Oh, like a Texas death match?

• 57:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:23Bill Simmons?

  This is like a Texas death match.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. No count out, no disqualification.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Anything goes.

• 57:30Bill Simmons?

  Lot of rumors that John Cena might be on the BS podcast this week.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 57:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I've never had him. Yeah. It's a rumor.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  See, I don't know if you would put that out there if it wasn't gonna happen.

• 57:41Bill Simmons?

  It's heavy rumors. Heavy rumors.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  All right. K-Fab might be. Look at that.

• 57:50Bill Simmons?

  Sunday marquee, a lot of good choices.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:54Bill Simmons?

  But I think it's Packers Bears for the NF, NFC North.

• 58:02Bill Simmons?

  The history of the two teams, the fact that the Bears are actually like, kinda beloved in Chicago after that Eagles win.

• 58:13Bill Simmons?

  This might be an NFC title game. Who the fuck knows?

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 58:17Bill Simmons?

  It's in Lambeau. And I think this is my favorite game and I'm putting it right in the Vegas zone. It's in Green Bay. I have Packers minus five and a half.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. You nailed it. I said four and a half. Also Vegas zone, but it is five and a half. Good job by you.

• 58:32Bill Simmons?

  So where does that end?

• 58:35Bill Simmons?

  I think that gets to six.

• 58:38Speaker 01

  What did, what did the Eagles line do during the week?

• 58:41Bill Simmons?

  That ended at, uh,

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Seven, right?

• 58:43Bill Simmons?

  Straight seven. Yeah, it went up for a second.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think if anything, it goes up.

• 58:48Bill Simmons?

  I think it ends up at six.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  I have a request for these two teams and you could join me in this. Can we have a memorable game? Like this is supposed to be the greatest rivalry in sports or top four. I saw a podcast like, uh, Al Michaels and Kostas. Kostas were talking about the best rivalries and oh yes, this has to be it. I can't remember two great games out of it. I know they played 200 times.

• 59:10Bill Simmons?

  Kostas and Michael said Packers Bears was a great rivalry?

• 59:13Speaker 01

  There was a big.

• 59:14Bill Simmons?

  It's a famous rivalry. They've had no games.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  It was the Red Sox Yankees. I think they agreed on Red Sox Yankees, Carolina Duke.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  Packers, Bears, and what would the other one be?

• 59:26Bill Simmons?

  Packers, Bears. That's ridiculous.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  I'm spacing on the easy one.

• 59:30Bill Simmons?

  The problem is the NFL has, it's, it's changes in like, half decade cycles, depending on who the quarterbacks are. It's not like when we were kids.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 59:40Bill Simmons?

  But, but when we were kids, like they were like real rivalries and they never changed. It didn't really matter who the quarterbacks were. Now I feel like it just kind of moves around.

• 59:49Speaker 01

  What's your favorite Packer Bear game? I, I think that was, I think the Monday night game where the guy jumped out of the stands to catch an extra point was a Packers Bear game. Otherwise I have no, and I know they made it to the NFC championship once. Cutler and he was hurt.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  Can't be the best rivalry.

• 1:00:07Bill Simmons?

  Rogers shilling the crowd. I remember that.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:11Bill Simmons?

  There was a Brett Favre one. Was that who he played after his dad died?

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  Uh, see, I don't even know. Was on the Vikings? I don't, I don't know.

• 1:00:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  I don't know if it could be best rivalry. It has to be memorable games. It can't just be Army Navy. God bless.

• 1:00:26Bill Simmons?

  I just don't think the Bears have been good enough over the course of the last 50 years, like.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  50 years? That's a lot. That's 100 games.

• 1:00:34Bill Simmons?

  When we were kids and they, we'd only get either two or three games, like the Bears were, I never got to see Walter Payton. I'd barely even, unless it was a highlight, I'd never even knew what he did.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 1:00:44Bill Simmons?

  He wasn't on TV for eight years of my life.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:50Bill Simmons?

  Three watchables and they're all good ones. Colts at Jacksonville.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:57Bill Simmons?

  I think this is gonna, I have the Colts favored. I think this ends up at three, but I, I went lower than that. I have Colts minus two and a half at Jacksonville.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  Damn, I went the wrong way. I had the Jags minus one. It's a, it's in the tic tac zone. They do have the Colts favored by one and a half. So you get it.

• 1:01:14Bill Simmons?

  The Jags are banged up. This left tackle, if they're not going to be able to block, I do think the Colts could pressure him.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  I guess so. This is, we can't bet this, right? We, uh, no, one of those.

• 1:01:25Bill Simmons?

  I didn't like what I saw from Dimes.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Nah, nothing. Just stay away from this.

• 1:01:30Bill Simmons?

  And Lawrence, even when they're playing Tennessee and they're inside the 10, I just feel like he's going to throw a pick.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:01:37Bill Simmons?

  It's like surprising when he completes a touchdown.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Is this two in a row for the Jags? This, they're not going to win. Put a hat trick together. Oh.

• 1:01:45Bill Simmons?

  This has to be one of the biggest home games I've ever had, right?

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, no doubt.

• 1:01:51Bill Simmons?

  Ravens, uh, home for the Steelers. I put this in the Vegas zone. Um, I have the Ravens by four and a half.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Okay. I add that too. It is six and a half.

• 1:02:03Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  And I like them. I like them on a teaser.

• 1:02:13Bill Simmons?

  The Ravens or the Steelers?

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  The Ravens. I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna do it again, Bill.

• 1:02:18Bill Simmons?

  Well, Lamar will have another 10 days since that Thursday night game.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  You might need 100, but yeah, 10 is good enough.

• 1:02:29Bill Simmons?

  What would be the most shocking firing over the next 14 days that you would actually believe?

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Hmm. Um.

• 1:02:40Bill Simmons?

  Could I talk you into whoever loses this game, the coach gets dismissed after the game as a possibility?

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  They can't do that.

• 1:02:47Bill Simmons?

  You sure?

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Well, the Steelers don't do that. They don't even fire coaches, let alone the middle of the year.

• 1:02:53Bill Simmons?

  Or it's announced he's leaving at the end of the year?

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:56Bill Simmons?

  These are like two coaches that, uh,

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Oh, I know.

• 1:02:58Bill Simmons?

  I can't say the fanbases are enthralled.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  That's rough. Maybe you firing House? Was you counting that for giving you bad 107 picks?

• 1:03:07Bill Simmons?

  The House had a good one last week. He saved his job.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  He had the Packers?

• 1:03:11Bill Simmons?

  Packers, yeah.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Bill Simmons?

  Pushed the Packers hard.

• 1:03:16Bill Simmons?

  Bills? By the way, I did watch the entire Sunday pregame show today.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:03:22Bill Simmons?

  House has this new tick that I hesitate to bring up, but I really enjoy it. House, when, you know, it's in a four box. If he gets really excited about a topic somebody else is talking about, he starts like rocking. He starts like doing this in his seat like he can't wait to talk. He's like a little kid. I really enjoyed the Sunday pregame show. Available on 29 Fanduel channels across the, across America.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Well, that's just for crying out loud.

• 1:03:50Bill Simmons?

  The Ringer YouTube show.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  We gave out winners left and right. No, that wasn't, that's not a tick. That's, um, we had him sit on a custom made toilet. He's still unloading some Thanksgiving.

• 1:03:59Bill Simmons?

  Bathroom. I didn't realize.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Thanksgiving. It's, it's rough. It's a rough weekend.

• 1:04:03Bill Simmons?

  It's great. You think like playing poker with House, he gets a card he likes. He just starts like moving around in his chair. This is a great game. I almost put this in the Sunday marquee. Bills Bengals.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:16Bill Simmons?

  In Buffalo and Joe Burrow. It's just great to have him back. We needed all the, all the fun quarterbacks we could get. I put this in the Vegas zone. Bills minus five and a half.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  Oh, come on. I wanted to steal this from you. I had five and a half also. That's what it is.

• 1:04:30Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  It's exactly five and a half.

• 1:04:33Bill Simmons?

  So we have two Vegas zone games already.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  You'd think that's too high. There's no way you would take the Bills under any circumstances.

• 1:04:40Bill Simmons?

  I would probably do a version of what I did with the Texans today. The Bengals tease up over the double digit number to 11 and a half, 10 and a half, somewhere in there and then, and then move the over down because I think this game will have points. I don't think you can make the over high enough for this game.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  They look so good Cincinnati. They looked really good. They had it all together.

• 1:05:02Bill Simmons?

  I thought he was, I thought he was moving great.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:07Bill Simmons?

  Because I thought that would be like a little, oh, he can't, it didn't matter. Whatever they shot him up with. Kudos to the doctor. Fairly watchables.

• 1:05:16Bill Simmons?

  I can't believe I put this in the fairly watchables, but I'll explain after Seahawks at Atlanta.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  Oh no.

• 1:05:24Bill Simmons?

  I'll make the case after we do the pick. I have the Seahawks favored by four in Atlanta.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. You really think it's that watchable? I said seven and a half. It's eight and a half.

• 1:05:36Bill Simmons?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  Let me make sure. Yeah, eight and a half.

• 1:05:41Bill Simmons?

  Man.

• 1:05:43Bill Simmons?

  I was either dead on or within a half point and then I missed that one by four and a half points. I thought it was watchable Seahawks defense against Kirk Cousins.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Oh, I see. Oh, yeah. You're going to win your last regular season fantasy game of the year. Walking away.

• 1:05:59Bill Simmons?

  I'm just excited for that matchup for any reasons.

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  I said this morning, the Falcons should win a lifetime achievement award for fishy lines. Just, just, just give it to them. Every single doesn't matter.

• 1:06:13Bill Simmons?

  Just give them an actual fishing ride. Yeah, you're right.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Desmond Ritter, who cares?

• 1:06:18Bill Simmons?

  This is, this has trap game written all over it.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:22Bill Simmons?

  Next one fairly watchable is Bucks Saints. The only reason I say this is because I think the Saints are like pretty watchable as a bad team. They can move the ball. I don't mind watching the Saints.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  I hit this exact, so.

• 1:06:37Bill Simmons?

  I have the Bucks by eight and a half over the Saints in Tampa.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  It's seven and a half.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  All right, we're tied.

• 1:06:45Bill Simmons?

  Seven and a half, a little low. And then Rams Cardinals fairly watchable. I don't understand the Brissette thing. He was so terrible for the Patriots last year. He was really awful. And now you watch him and he's pretty competent. And then I remembered that our offensive line was like an F minus, minus, minus.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:07:04Bill Simmons?

  So maybe if he has like a decent offensive line, it's okay.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  He found the hole. Wilson's good. McBride's great, right?

• 1:07:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  He's like a all pro. Harrison, I don't know. Not completely sold on his work ethic. I think he had another injury today, but uh, he'll be good too.

• 1:07:20Bill Simmons?

  Rams in Arizona. I have them favored by eight and a half.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  All right, I got this. It is, oh no, we split it. I had eight. It's seven and a half. I get it.

• 1:07:32Bill Simmons?

  You get it.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, good, good, good.

• 1:07:37Bill Simmons?

  Poop fact.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  You see so many teasers going through your head that you don't want to talk about right now, but.

• 1:07:43Bill Simmons?

  We have a couple of teams on a bye, by the way, if you're wondering.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:46Bill Simmons?

  The listeners wondering why, including my team. Poop fact of Browns Titans in Cleveland.

• 1:07:54Bill Simmons?

  This is awful and I can't wait to bet on it.

• 1:07:58Bill Simmons?

  I have Browns in the Vegas zone, minus five and a half.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  No, I said three and it's three and a half.

• 1:08:05Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's too low.

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  You think so?

• 1:08:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think the Browns defense is good.

• 1:08:13Bill Simmons?

  They just can't fall behind. Once they're behind by like 10, it's the game's over.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  You don't think there's any pride like Cam Ward, like F all these people who are putting Shador ahead of me? You know, I was the first pick.

• 1:08:26Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he was the first pick.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna show them why, kinda thing. They do suck though. They are so bad.

• 1:08:35Bill Simmons?

  Vikings home for uh, the Washington commanders. I would have said three, seven hours ago, but I'm dropping that to two and a half. Minnesota favored.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Oh, I said uh, Washington by one. I think it's Washington by one and a half. Let's see.

• 1:08:52Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I think.

• 1:08:55Bill Simmons?

  Wow, I went in a tailspin.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  He should be back, Jaden Daniels, right?

• 1:09:01Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  Wasn't it gonna be close to this week?

• 1:09:05Bill Simmons?

  Why are you bringing him back when you're three and nine? Sit his ass down.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Listen, I like the way they played. I need them to win.

• 1:09:12Bill Simmons?

  Last today.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  It's the Cowboys, like they played Guti, they played the Eagles twice, so I need them to be tough. What I don't need is, did you hear Collinsworth and Tirico pronounce Mariota's name?

• 1:09:23Bill Simmons?

  Mariota?

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  Mariota, Mariota. For three, I had to turn it off like a half hour. I couldn't listen to the sound. I'm like, what is this? It's like they're, they're showing off for their eighth grade Spanish teacher. He's been Mariota for 12 years in college and everything. Mariota, and then sometimes they'd catch themselves and they'd go back to however everyone else says it.

• 1:09:43Bill Simmons?

  I, I didn't understand it at all. I was trying to ignore it, but then they kept doing it.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:48Bill Simmons?

  So it's Washington favored by one and a half in Minnesota.

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:09:54Bill Simmons?

  Jesus.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  Well, it's Brosmer again, right? He's gonna give points, that guy?

• 1:09:59Bill Simmons?

  I don't think, Washington's three and nine. You're gonna be favored on the road? It's ridiculous.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  Brosner could play 100 games and he won't win one. I don't know. I think that's fair.

• 1:10:12Bill Simmons?

  What did you, would you make of the inverted Bo Nix performance today where instead of being bad for, instead of being the boot and rally bow, he was, he actually sucked you into thinking he was gonna be good for all three hours? And then all of a sudden was booting in the fourth quarter? But then rallied in the OT.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:33Bill Simmons?

  I didn't know what to make of it.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  I like it. I mean, I think I had Washington as an upset and I took the points, so that, that was a, it was gonna be a miserable way to lose, but he threw his interception. He got it out there, right? What was that, third quarter? Yeah.

• 1:10:49Bill Simmons?

  When he threw it right to the guy on the other team?

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. But, um, yeah, we, we needed our friend Hench to win this week to stay alive and, uh, he had no targets with, uh, what's his name? Can't forget. 14.

• 1:11:03Bill Simmons?

  You got knocked out of our guillotine league.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  I know, I got knocked out. Stinks.

• 1:11:09Bill Simmons?

  So now there's only

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Four left, right? You made the final four?

• 1:11:13Bill Simmons?

  Lewis has 10 bucks left. I have four bucks left. The other two teams have zero bucks left. So Lewis can just cherry pick. He can go.

• 1:11:23Bill Simmons?

  I guess five bucks on JSN, so he gets him. So he'd have, he could basically get the top two guys you have to shoot his wad. Try to do it that way. I love the guillotine.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  That's the best. I'm gonna miss it. I gotta get, I wonder if there's a three week guillotine.

• 1:11:38Bill Simmons?

  Ninety percent of it.

• 1:11:45Bill Simmons?

  Dolphins at the Jets.

• 1:11:51Bill Simmons?

  I, I went between Dolphins minus three and Dolphins minus three and a half, back and forth for a solid 20 seconds and landed at Dolphins.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  One of those is right. One of those is exactly right.

• 1:12:03Bill Simmons?

  Landed at Dolphins minus three and a half.

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  Oh, I said two and a half. It is three. So we tie.

• 1:12:12Bill Simmons?

  So Jets have won three of their last five and the other two, they kind of hung around for a while.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Ty Tower's the guy, though. I feel like they have life with that guy, right?

• 1:12:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  That offense at least.

• 1:12:24Bill Simmons?

  It fools you on the small TV when you're not really concentrating. Like, man, Fields looks pretty good because you can't really see the numbers. That's like, oh, that's Ty Taylor.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, they're moving too fast down the field for it to be field.

• 1:12:36Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that, that, that pass actually went to his receiver. Broncos are at Las Vegas, a truly terrible team. And I have the Broncos favored by eight and a half.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  I said seven and it's seven and a half. So I get that one.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  Like this.

• 1:13:00Bill Simmons?

  What's the score? Are you winning?

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  You can't win this. One, two, three, four, five, six. 10 to six.

• 1:13:08Bill Simmons?

  You're winning 10 to six?

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I'm back. You're right. I'm the Cowboys. This is tough.

• 1:13:14Bill Simmons?

  You're the Cowboys.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  I wouldn't take 10. This is the, the 10-7 game, right? From a few Thursdays ago?

• 1:13:22Bill Simmons?

  It's gonna be really hard not to throw the Broncos.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:13:25Bill Simmons?

  Money line into five different bets.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  And they'll have fans and everything else. Yeah, stupid.

• 1:13:32Bill Simmons?

  Sunday night Chiefs, home for the Texans. Dare I say, a must win game for the Chiefs.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Great game.

• 1:13:42Bill Simmons?

  And maybe also for the Texans. I mean, this really might be the loser leaves town match.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:13:47Bill Simmons?

  I don't think either team can lose this.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  I think it is. I think this is. That night, we're going live after this.

• 1:13:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we're going live. Next week, we'll go live on YouTube. I have Chiefs minus three.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  All right, you're gonna get it. I said four. It was four and a half. It went to three and a half.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  Well, I guess we split it. We split that? We split it. Doesn't matter.

• 1:14:10Bill Simmons?

  Monday night.

• 1:14:13Bill Simmons?

  I think that's a really bad.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:15Bill Simmons?

  I, that's a bad spot for the Chiefs. I don't like that defense.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  They all are.

• 1:14:21Bill Simmons?

  That defense against the, you know, just hitting the shit out of Kelsey. Coming at Mahomes.

• 1:14:30Bill Simmons?

  I don't like, pussy, they can't really run the ball. I don't like that spot.

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm sure they'd probably rather play almost every other team, honestly.

• 1:14:40Bill Simmons?

  Monday night Eagles Chargers in Los Angeles. 60% Philly fans there, although if you're a Philly fan who lives in LA, would you even want to go to that game? I guess you want to be around other unhappy people. I don't know.

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, you just want to yell, just to yell at your own team. Yeah, you have to.

• 1:14:58Bill Simmons?

  Start a couple of fights in the concourse after.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, just for chant for Tanner McKee and then get out of there.

• 1:15:04Bill Simmons?

  I have the Eagles favored by minus two and a half.

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're gonna get this. I went low. I said one and a half. It is three.

• 1:15:11Bill Simmons?

  All right.

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  That's a win for the good guys.

• 1:15:17Bill Simmons?

  So we're eight and six for the season?

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  Eight, six. You still have the lead.

• 1:15:20Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  All right. I'll, I'll take that. I'll take that. I gotta look at my schedule the rest of the way, but.

• 1:15:28Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  What a game. Seven great games. Seven like meaningful and important and playoff worthy games out of the 14. Pretty good.

• 1:15:37Bill Simmons?

  Today's parent corner is presented by Uber Eats. Uber Eats that I used twice today. Let's be real. Wouldn't it be game day without a spread of your favorite foods? Pizza, burgers, burritos, you name it. Uber Eats is here to deliver it to you all season long. Or in my case today, a nice, nice salad with a bunch of vegetables in it. I got my own salad. My way. We custom made our salads. That came. That was really good. Yeah.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  You could eat that in the sauna?

• 1:16:03Bill Simmons?

  No, I didn't eat the salad in the sauna.

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  All right, all right.

• 1:16:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Did wear my T-shirt in the sauna today.

• 1:16:10Bill Simmons?

  What do you have for parent?

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  Someone was asking me why you wear the T-shirt. It's one thing if you want to wipe your face with the T-shirt. If it's okay. You like the way the cloth feels, but why are you wearing it in the sauna? Why don't you just bring it with you? Put it on your lap?

• 1:16:23Bill Simmons?

  I just think it's like, first of all, you always have to think like, if I, if I'm gonna die, what do I, how do I want to be found? Like sauna is a place you could die. I at least want to have a T-shirt if I'm slumped over. I don't want to be like naked from the waist up.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  Oh, I see. Okay.

• 1:16:40Bill Simmons?

  Then if somebody, somebody comes in, they don't realize I'm there, like, who knows?

• 1:16:45Speaker 01

  All right. Okay. So it kills a couple of birds there.

• 1:16:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I like wiping my face with a T-shirt. I'm not defending it. I'm not, I'm fully admit it's probably pretty weird.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  I'm proud of you.

• 1:16:55Bill Simmons?

  What do you have for parent corner?

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  Uh, all right. So, uh, you know, it's my favorite weekend. It's the, I'm sure you feel the same way. Everybody's home, football, eating, just. And then Friday might even be better than Thursday if you have nothing to do. Just veg out, right? And you don't have people. But anyway. We're watching this Cowboys game and I think I told you a couple of weeks ago, I found out from my barber who cuts everybody's hair in the family. That, um, that Harrison, my youngest, is becoming a Cowboys fan. And I went and told him, I was like, you can't do this and I want this for you. You know, it's like you, you found like dad's crack vial or something. Like I don't want you anywhere near this shit. Please don't do it. He's like, no, no, no. I watched the documentary with you. I think I liked them. I like the history and I like this. And I'm like, don't do it.

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  Fast forward to Thanksgiving, Chiefs Cowboys, we're sitting down, he's rooting for Dallas. First touchdown, Rashi Rice, and he cheers. And I was like, what the, what the hell was that about? And he's like, well, I have him on my fantasy team. I'm like, you're out. That's it. You can't do that. You're not doing that. He's like, what? I need this. I'm six and six or whatever. I have to, well, like, I don't care. You don't root, you at least don't audibly root for the other team. And Archie's yelling at him. He's like, you, what are you crazy? You don't ever do that. Like, they almost spoiled like Thanksgiving. And Jack's laughing because his Steelers don't play until Sunday. And he thinks this is all ridiculous anyway. So that was the, that was the first thing.

• 1:18:17Bill Simmons?

  Your kids were deliberately defying you to try to get a reaction out of you on your favorite day of the year.

• 1:18:23Speaker 01

  I'd finally allowed him to be a Cowboys fan against my better judgment or any judgment. And then he does this where he's rooting for Rashi Rice. I'm like, you gotta stop this. This is stuff, but this is fantasy is the most important thing for kids. Like it just, it just is. That's where we are in life. Real quick, my fourth son, our friend Brad, stays with me Thanksgiving weekend. So we had him, I know you're laughing already. So he's, he's a lunatic. He comes in just spinning around, just like a tornado. And he's making fun of the boys any chance he gets and telling me about 14 documentaries he's watched. And makes you feel stupid. Like he's a lunatic, but he's also like really smart. You know this, he's well read, you know? He's like, what about that LA Times article? You think they're gonna lock up that sheriff? I'm like, uh, I don't know.

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  And they'll tell you like 20 things about him. Like, so anyway, he loves ribs, right? So I, I found this upscale barbecue restaurant in the neighborhood, but you kind of have to dress up. So I gave him like, like clothes he could wear. And my sons Harrison and Jack come with us. And I go in there and he like, I was like, hey, this is like, you know, this is kind of a nice place. He's like, all right, all right. Now he's like, he's giving himself a pep talk as he's entering the place. He's like saying, walk like a human being, walk like a human being, walk like a human being. He's like repeating it. And the maître d's like, uh, welcome, sir. I'm like, so I was like, I just have to sit him down. I have to sit him down in a booth and he can't be on the outside. He's gotta be on the inside. I have it all planned in my head, right?

• 1:19:51Bill Simmons?

  Cause you have to, you have to trap him.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. You have to kind of trap him in there.

• 1:19:56Bill Simmons?

  It's like a caged animal.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  So he's got the onion strings. He's got about forty five hundred calories in his beard before the entrees even hit. And then, then come the ribs and just a few minutes in, it looks like his, he was dunked headfirst into a vat of sweet baby Ray's barbecue sauce. Like, just like turned upside down and jumped in. So at one point, he decides he has to go to the bathroom and he goes to, to clean up. And he goes to, walks to the bathroom and we're watching and the kids are shaking their heads and he slips on nothing and runs his whole barbecue hand on the wall, which now resembles a crime scene. It looks like there's just blood everywhere. And he's embarrassed and he, I'm not making this up,

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  and he runs into the women's bathroom. Luckily, he figured it out right away. A lot of times he doesn't. And then he came out. And so that's the end of this. Like, I had to way overtip the waitstaff. And then I sent him home today on an Uber, uh, at the end of the one o'clock games. And, uh, I guess it was an incident. I have to look into this now. There was an incident with the Uber driver when I sent him home. Yeah, the guy wouldn't go around the construction and Brad was telling him. So I, I wish you could bet on Fandel how many points my Uber rating would go down when I put Brad in a sedan for an hour. But, uh, I'm saying at least two and a half points. So we'll see.

• 1:21:16Bill Simmons?

  That's your second time this year where he's hurt your Uber rating?

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. I know. I'll never learn. We just never learn. Anyway.

• 1:21:22Bill Simmons?

  So it's like in the horror movie when the detective comes the next day and they're looking at for blood splatter on the wall and they see a handprint?

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  He slipped on nothing. It's going all the way down the wall. What is this?

• 1:21:35Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:21:37Speaker 01

  Circus clown.

• 1:21:38Bill Simmons?

  I would say that sounds like he got away pretty okay.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 1:21:42Bill Simmons?

  From a night out with Brad at an upscale barbecue dinner.

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:21:47Bill Simmons?

  We had, um, you know, Thanksgiving, I'm gonna tell a story about my son Murph, my five-year-old dog. Thanksgiving, biggest day of the year for him. Um, my mom feeds him under the table, like food drops, people forget to close the garbage. And, uh, at some point, um, it's unclear, but the, the carcass of the turkey, he might have.

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:22:11Bill Simmons?

  We're not sure what happened to it. It's just unclear. The garbage was open. He, it might have been thrown away. He might have gotten to it. What we did know happened for sure, cause I saw it was my mom makes these, she calls them her Aunt Minnie's cookies. These, these Italian cookies, they, they're like powdered, they're, she fries them. They're super salty. She probably made like 35 of them and maybe-

• 1:22:35Speaker 01

  That sounds amazing.

• 1:22:36Bill Simmons?

  We had all these pies and stuff, so there was probably at least 25 left. And I went back in the kitchen to get a hot water and lemon. Murph's on the counter. There's three cookies left. So now we're like, and we don't know what else he's eaten and um, so Thursday night, we're like, this is, he's gonna fucking ruin the whole weekend. Like we, this is gonna be his first diarrhea fest in a while. Friday's okay. Friday, nothing really happens.

• 1:23:09Bill Simmons?

  Friday night, the wheels come off. We decide we don't go out. My wife does the thing where it's like, we might have to take him to the vet. He's just lying on the ground, kinda looking at us. It's like really sluggish. She won't eat. And she's like, he ate, she ate a bone. He ate something. He ate something. There's turkey. Like this is bad. This is bad. So he ruins Friday night. Saturday, started to get better and by Saturday night, he's okay.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Did you ta, had you taken him in or you did take him in?

• 1:23:39Bill Simmons?

  Never took him in and by Sunday, he's okay. He's a little happier and we, we got through it. We got through it unscathed. There's so we thought, because in the upstairs of one of the rooms,

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:23:51Bill Simmons?

  Just a giant, giant poop. That unclear if it had been there for 48 hours, 24 hours, but it was like, it was a, he picked a room like he's smarter. It's like veteran savvy. It's like, nobody goes in this room that much. Just dropped one in there and it was in there and uh, yeah. So we, it was our first incident in a while.

• 1:24:12Speaker 01

  That's bad.

• 1:24:12Bill Simmons?

  So-

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  Are you sure? I know you wanna, I know you wanna blame Murph, but it could have been Brad who wandered into your house accidentally.

• 1:24:18Bill Simmons?

  It might have been Brad. Today's parent corner presented by Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything for game day, like your favorite game day foods, drinks and snacks on Uber Eats, the official on demand delivery partner of the NFL order now.

• 1:24:35Bill Simmons?

  Anything else we have to cover? Oh, you know, we're doing Rocky 2 for rewatchables. It's going up tomorrow night. I don't know how much, when was the last time you watched it?

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  You know, I watched it a couple of years ago. Is that the slowest of all of them? I don't want you to

• 1:24:46Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  blow your load here.

• 1:24:47Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:50Speaker 01

  I don't know if the point was to put us in a coma at the same time Adrian was in it, but

• 1:24:55Bill Simmons?

  It's a very long coma. Uh, really enjoyable, though. I've watched it twice in the past five days.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:01Bill Simmons?

  Really good. And somehow the worst of the first four, but really, really good. So can't wait to take that one.

• 1:25:05Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:25:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  Stallone. Go ahead.

• 1:25:08Bill Simmons?

  Multiple scenes where he's just reading a book to Adrian. Yeah. And like in the Stallone voice, they just, they're deleted scenes that weren't deleted. They're just in the actual movie.

• 1:25:20Speaker 01

  It wasn't even in the movie. It was like during lunch hour and they're like, oh, you, let's roll on this.

• 1:25:25Bill Simmons?

  Talia, just pretend.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  This'll be funny. The Ringer Gambling Show, it's greatest. Check it out on YouTube and the Fanduel Sports Network. It's me and Tate and House and the Bundo and Hi-Fits Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday. And then the Ringer Pregame Show on Sunday. Lots of fun.

• 1:25:42Bill Simmons?

  All right, great. We're taking a break. We're keeping the podcast going because I got Van Lathan and Todd McShay to talk about this crazy Lane Kiffin story, which I guess wasn't that crazy since most people thought he was

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  I can't be, uh, I think I'm supposed to be outraged, but I'm not. I don't know.

• 1:25:56Bill Simmons?

  I get why. It's kind of what college sports is these days, right?

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  It's fine. Like Kentucky paid their coach $37 million to go away. Kentucky gives a shit. What are they doing? That's just how it is.

• 1:26:07Bill Simmons?

  All right, we'll pass that point along to the next segment. Sal, good job by you.

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  Good job by you, buddy.

• 1:26:12Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right. It's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras and watch Tip Off Plus as the official beer sponsor of the NBA. Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2026, ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

• 1:26:55Bill Simmons?

  Football has a play for just about everything. And whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you. So they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, I can't remember many times on a Sunday night podcast with Cousin Sal that we had to veer off and cover another sport. But this college football story that happened with Ole Miss and LSU, we had to bring in Todd McShay and Van Lathan, a giant LSU fan. We'll start with Todd.

• 1:27:31Bill Simmons?

  You saw this coming for a while. You talked about in your pod, but this still felt like one of the craziest weekends we've had in college football, just with a coach switching teams, the whole thing. I don't remember this much of a circus. Is there another example?

• 1:27:45Speaker 02

  I mean, I guess Brian Kelly's the closest thing, right? Back in 2021 where they were, they were headed towards the playoff. They wound up, that was only a four team playoff back then. They had, they were heading towards it. I think they were like 11 and one or 10 and one at the, at the time when Marcus Freeman stepped in as the interim and became the, the full-time coach. So kind of similar in a lot of ways. The defensive coach becomes the, the full-time coach and someone leaving on a playoff run to, to go to LSU. So there are definitely some similarities there. But I remember at the time it was unprecedented. I mean, you had to go to comparisons in other sports, or at least maybe in the, the NFL to try to get something that was, that was an apt comp, you know?

• 1:28:31Bill Simmons?

  So it's Van's team. So it's just LSU was the one that does this.

• 1:28:37Speaker 02

  And the last time they did it, they still have like five and a half years and $54 million to pay off. So, but this is different, man. Like from the family quote, when he walked into the, into the basketball arena with Brian Kelly, to some of the recruiting early on, and then the stories that started to surface. It was just never a fit with Brian Kelly. This feels like home. This feels like the right fit. And I don't, there's just so many layers to peel off in this. But can we just for a half a second? Celebrate the fact that the college football is, I mean, we just had the Lane Kiffin documentary come out and now we have part two unfolding right in front of our eyes.

• 1:29:19Speaker 02

  And college football, for all of its imperfections, and it's, it's the wild, wild west right now. Like this is, this is like what you love about this game. It's insanity.

• 1:29:32Bill Simmons?

  What you love is abject insanity.

• 1:29:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:29:36Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Van, I, I, listen, you could feel it coming for like two weeks. And yet the, the part where they're, they have this giant playoff. And watching a coach leave a team that he just put all this time in to try to put in a position to do well in the playoff. And then he's like, I'll see you guys later. Got a better offer. Good luck. It never sits right to me, but this is one of the reasons why college sports is so fucked up, Van. You've benefited from it twice.

• 1:30:02Speaker 03

  Uh, no, I've, I have yet to benefit from it. Hopefully I'll benefit from it now. I mean, we got the Hodgman Trophy season with Jayden Daniels. So, you know, and Brian Kelly did some things while he was at LSU. Um, you know, it's funny. You start, you get anxious about this stuff. So you reach out to people, people that are there, the people that you know, tons of LSU press people that I know down there in and around Baton Rouge that cover the sport. And you say, what's going on? And this is like a week ago, week and a half ago. And they say, it's done. I'm like, what? They say, it's done. Like Lane Kiffin has agreed to come to LSU.

• 1:30:36Speaker 02

  Van, Van, Van, I got a text on Friday night and, and apparently not to, I, I gotta be careful. Apparently there's a text chain going on, right? And on that text chain, there's some people and someone I knew was, was around it and so on and so forth. I was told on Friday night, like what, I don't get it. What's, what's the Marty Smith deal? Why, why is everyone like, he's had a, he's basically closed on a house like a week ago.

• 1:31:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was over.

• 1:31:04Speaker 02

  It was over.

• 1:31:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:05Speaker 02

  And, and so all of this, this past, you know, 72 hours was about him being able to coach this team, these players through the play, have your cake and eat it too, right? He wanted to coach this team through, but still take this job. And we could get into Kevin Carter and the AD and all that other stuff, but it's, it's shocking to me as you're alluding to. That the people like Mark, poor Marty Smith, man, he was held hostage in the facilities there.

• 1:31:32Speaker 03

  This was his Walter Cronkite moment, though, like this was his moment to go down there with the slicker on while the hurricanes in the back and do real news coverage. The thing was, even though people were saying that it was over, it was done. They were still very hesitant to talk about it because of the nature of Lane Kiffin. They were like, we don't know whether or not he is going to hold to the fact that he has already agreed to a contract with LSU. They were waiting for the Egg Bowl. If, if Ole Miss.

• 1:32:01Speaker 02

  Can I tell you something too, Van?

• 1:32:02Speaker 03

  They were waiting for the, the, the Iron Bowl. Like people weren't sure if he was going to stick to his word on it.

• 1:32:09Speaker 02

  The same people that told me Friday night that it's done and he's, he's got a place, basically, and everyone in his circle knows that he's going to, to LSU. Same people were telling me, you watch, it will not be announced, it will not be official till after that Alabama game.

• 1:32:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:32:25Speaker 02

  Because of that, because the job he wants more than any other job, watch the hand motions and I, I've known Lane for over 20 years. I'm, I'm buds with Lane, we, we communicate. But if you just watch, as much as he butted heads with Nick at Alabama, he and Saban have a bond and a mutual respect for one another, even though they drove each other crazy. That was the job he wanted. And so there was still this 1% in him and no one will ever admit it, especially him. And, and by the way, we have Scott Boris right now. We have, to me, like, when you look at the situation with, um, with Jimmy Sexton in college football, he is the.

• 1:33:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, David Falk.

• 1:33:06Speaker 02

  Scott Boris, Jimmy Sexton's control.

• 1:33:09Speaker 03

  Even more so, he has 14 out of the 16 SEC coaches that.

• 1:33:12Speaker 02

  He is the lord of college football. Yes, yes. And he's messing around with, with Penn State right now. We can get to that later or another time, but he's messing around with, with Penn State right now because Penn State let go one of his guys, James Franklin, in a manner that he didn't appreciate. And so now they're, they're kind of sitting back and every time they go try to hire a coach or get serious with the coach, that coach who's represented by Sexton winds up with an extension or winds up going to maybe UCLA or, you know, so it's, it's fascinating to see, but, but I, I truly believe there was a small percentage of, of Lane that was like, yep, I'm going LSU, it's done. But what happens if Auburn beats Alabama?

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  Cause that thing could fall apart in a hurry with Kalen DeBoer.

• 1:33:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. See, Van, you're, you're basically, I'm trying to think of the Hollywood relationship parallel.

• 1:34:04Speaker 03

  Oh, I got a bunch of them, like Lori Harvey, if you know who she is, uh, you know, if you, you date Lori Harvey for a little while, you fall in love, but you know that she's gonna go looking for someone else, be it Warren Beatty. There, there are a bunch of them. There's so many, but here's the thing though. Here's the deal. This is the deal. With any of these people, any of these relationships, the true measure of it is not the length of it. The true measure of it is what you got out of it. Like, what, like what did you get out of it? When you were, the time that you were in the sun dating Madonna, the time that you were in the sun dating Warren Beatty, dating Rihanna, dating Lori Harvey, did your star go up? Did you win a couple of championships? Because that person is leaving. No one thinks that this is a marriage.

• 1:34:48Speaker 03

  This is a long-term, long-term courtship between us and Lane Kiffin. What will we get out of the time that we are together? That's how you have to look at that.

• 1:34:59Speaker 02

  And Ole Miss people don't want to hear this, okay? I love Oxford. It's one of my favorite stops on the college football tour. I think it's a beautiful, magical place. I love, but I love Archie. I'll give you a couple more before the, I love Archie. I love the people there. I love the tailgating, all of it. But Lane outgrew Oxford. His star rose and it got too big and it, it, it, it got trashed from the Tennessee to the Raiders, to, to he and Nick fighting, to FAU and all of it. But he slowly built it back up and he kind of, he reinvented himself through sobriety and hot yoga

• 1:35:42Speaker 02

  and remarried to his, his wife and all those things. And he now knows he's in a place personally where he can go and make a run at being one of the greats. And he took Ole Miss, this, you gotta remember, this 11 win season during the regular season at Ole Miss is the best season in the school's history.

• 1:36:02Speaker 03

  Ever had, yeah.

• 1:36:03Speaker 02

  That they've ever had. 11 win season at LSU was like, okay, really good, but what, like, what's the payoff now? So, and with that expectation comes support. Comes a foundation that Ole Miss just doesn't have. And so I understand it from Lane's perspective. It's just the timing sucks. And honestly, it's college football's calendar that's created all this because you can't wait another month with recruiting, with the NIL, with transfer portal and everything going on. The calendar is so twisted that you have to make decisions like this at the most, at the least opportunistic time to do so.

• 1:36:40Bill Simmons?

  When you say foundation, are you saying they just don't have the same NIL war chest? Or they don't have the prestige? Like what is missing with the Ole Miss foundation that LSU has?

• 1:36:50Speaker 02

  I think part of it's prestige. I think part of it is Ole Miss has come up with a war chest. That's, that's, you know, I mean, they, they've Yes. Yes. And they, and they had the right people in place that were helping Lane get the players that he wanted. And it was, but it was maxed out there. So if Lane's able to go to LSU and take the money that he had, and maybe a little bit more money, and the aggressive people around him to help support him, he can turn, he can become at LSU what Nick was at Alabama. I'm not saying that many championships, but that in his mind, I can go to LSU and make

• 1:37:32Speaker 02

  a serious run now that I'm in a place personally where I'm seeing things clearer than I ever have before. I'm healthier. I'm like committed. Everything's in a row. I can now go there and chase what Nick, what Nick created at Alabama. And that absolutely is his mindset.

• 1:37:51Bill Simmons?

  And more talent, more talent in Louisiana, right?

• 1:37:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll say this, a couple of things. Number one, along with this, LSU has made a commitment to, to the, the NIL and to have 20, $25 million a year for him to go out and get the players, right? So he's going to be competitive as far as that's competitive with most, most programs in the country. Secondly is this, per capita.

• 1:38:18Speaker 03

  I I think Louisiana is second or third in terms of players in the NFL right now. It's a very fertile fertile state for that. And there's not another SEC school in the state. Now, Mississippi is third, but there's a big gap between second and third. Like Louisiana and Georgia are real close and then Mississippi is third. But there's a gap between Mississippi and Louisiana. And then you have another SEC school in Mississippi. So whereas at Ole Miss, Lane is going to have to dip into the transfer portal every now and again to get players and hope that those players hit. If he can successfully build a wall around Louisiana, he can go out and have the best, most talented athletic teams in the country every single year.

• 1:39:01Speaker 03

  Top five schools, top five classes every year. What the soon, the first thing that he did when he got in town was he met with Lamar Brown, the number one player in the class who's already committed to LSU, who goes to U-High. U-High is on LSU's campus. It's on the campus of the school, right? And the number one player in the state, in the country, is at that school. So there are advantages that exist at LSU that he wouldn't have had at Ole Miss. I'll say this about Lane Kiffin though. Lane Kiffin needs to prove that he's a championship coach. Everyone knows that he's a good coach. He's a talented coach. He can see ball, he can call ball, he can build programs. But the reality is now with the resources that he has,

• 1:39:42Speaker 03

  with as many places as he's been, it's time for him to prove that he can win championships.

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:39:48Speaker 03

  As the head guy, not as the guy that's calling your plays, as the head guy. And that happens here. It has to happen now because LSU is all in with with Lane Kiffin.

• 1:39:59Speaker 02

  And the thing too is, Bill, like, just so you understand, because I know you, the NBA and NFL and. I barely understand.

• 1:40:10Speaker 02

  Trinidad, Trinidad.

• 1:40:12Speaker 03

  The goddess.

• 1:40:13Speaker 02

  No, I know, I know, but Trinidad Chambly, the quarterback that he just won 11 games with. He was a transfer from a division two school. All of his games in the previous couple of seasons that he played wasn't, didn't, wasn't in front of a crowd. If you combine all those crowds as big as an SEC home game. And so he brought him in and he was apparently ranked because I don't, I don't have like the, the transfer portal rankings for, for any position, let alone quarterback. But apparently they have a couple of services that do these rankings. He was like the 260 something ranked quarterback. And he, and Lane found him and brought him in and did this with him in one year.

• 1:40:56Speaker 02

  So you think about what he can do at LSU with the type of talent that Vance talking about. And then also like, he went from West Coast USC, the Pete Carroll, when you think of that, like Sarkisian and Lane and what they did with those, like the Matt Lineerts and the, and the Sanchez's of the world. To that up tempo crazed, you know, it's kind of fit his personality to mixing and blending the two with Jackson Dart. And Jackson Dart early on was that RPO hand the ball off and, and fast tempo and going. And then as Jackson Dart grew up and got smarter and could understand concepts, like morphed those things into more West Coast. And then he kind of went veered off to the side with Trinidad this year.

• 1:41:39Speaker 02

  So not only are you getting a guy who can spot talent and develop talent. You're also getting a guy schematically who actually, and there's very few of them in college football. Who actually gives you a schematic, you know, upper hand over a lot of other opponents on the offensive side of the ball.

• 1:41:56Speaker 03

  And who develops talent to where you can see a, a. A huge thing that I think the transfer portal and shout out to my man Carter, who did Power Hour LSU who talked about this. The transfer portal to me has affected the development of a lot of the players in college football. Because you're bringing in guys who are established and it's taking away reps and the other guys are getting that been in your program for a long time. Right. So it's shortening the window to develop these players. Lane's players get better. They develop. You see snap after snap, game after game, these people get better. These, these players, they develop. They are better football players. They don't regress in weird ways. Like some of the big players that you've seen in other places.

• 1:42:38Speaker 03

  They get it and they continue to get a hold of what it is that he's giving them. And I just say something else. His crazy matches are crazy. We insane. We, we, we drunk on Saturday in the morning, all day. We New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Appaloosa, Shaw, Med, Destrahan, West Monroe Lake, Charles, New Iberia. Crazy. And his crazy matches our crazy. It's a culture fit. It works.

• 1:43:09Speaker 02

  I don't think it would fit in Alabama. I think it fits perfectly in Baton Rouge. But I'm, I'm curious, Bill, because when you called me earlier and asked me, you know, are you around tonight to come on? It seemed like you were, you had an edge about this whole thing, like kind of a little bit. Were you disgusted by it? Like, what was your first reaction to all of this?

• 1:43:26Bill Simmons?

  No, because so when I was like nine years old, the Patriots were really good, the 78 Patriots. We had this coach Chuck Fairbanks. And he took a job with Colorado. Again, the last game of the season heading into the playoffs. And everybody was outraged. They suspended him for the last game. Then he came back and coached the playoff game. We got killed by the Oilers. And he just became this pariah that Patriot fans still hate, like everybody over a certain age. I hate that guy to this day. So I wonder like, A, does that happen with him in Ole Miss where he's just hated even 45 years from now? It feels like it will. Then the LSU.

• 1:44:01Speaker 02

  Did you see the airport today?

• 1:44:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah. It just feels like that's going to be the all time villain status for him.

• 1:44:07Speaker 02

  And they're right down the highway.

• 1:44:09Bill Simmons?

  Right. Well, then he goes to OSU and it really does feel like this isn't the last stop for him. But I was thinking about it in the context of it's weird. So LeBron won two straight MVPs. The decision happens and he just vaults to another level of fame. Right? That it was such a polarizing thing. It was such a huge story. Everybody had an opinion on it, like even like my wife knew that it happened or my mom, people like that didn't even follow sports. It feels like this Lane Kiffin thing might be like that for college football, which I didn't really think would be possible for a coach, like a story that crosses over the mainstream. So I guess my question is, does he now vault to this different level? Like, is he the most famous football coach now because of this?

• 1:44:52Speaker 03

  Oh, easily.

• 1:44:53Bill Simmons?

  Right? So then is he more famous than any basketball coach? He's just the most famous college coach now.

• 1:45:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, I think so.

• 1:45:02Bill Simmons?

  I think he is.

• 1:45:03Speaker 03

  I think he is too. Yeah. I mean, they're obviously there guys that are running it right now. And as far as college basketball, it's an interesting transitional period where a lot of the guys that where these institutions are kind of gone now. But yeah, he is. This has been a soap opera that has captivated college football fandom for the last month. And it spilled over to where I'm getting texts from all different types of people talking about it now. And yeah, to be honest with you, Nick Saban came in and transformed LSU football. It's a fact. It's a fact. Grew seeds that are still bearing fruit, but it's hard for me to look at it.

• 1:45:42Speaker 03

  It just is because it became a humiliation ritual every November first weekend to go in there and get your teeth stomped in. Right? It never goes away, but you're still kinda appreciative. You're still kind of appreciative. You're still like, we had Nick Saban. Now the difference is like he never delivered them a national championship. Who knows how far Ole Miss football goes? If his legacy and what he started there can continue under Pete Golden, maybe it's off his to blow a little bit.

• 1:46:17Bill Simmons?

  Todd, you remember that was the Pats fans with Parcells, right? There was a lot of bitterness. And he went to the Jets and even when he went to the Cowboys, but at some point it shifted. And people were like, you know what? It was, he brought football back. He probably saved that we would have gone to St. Louis if it wasn't for him. I appreciate him, but it was really mad for, for a little bit. I think this Kiffin thing will probably be a little deeper because odds are Ole Miss is never going to matter like they just did the last couple of years.

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're not, not like this, not like this. And going back to your question, you got to remember college football in just the last few years has lost Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Jim Harbaugh. So you look around like Marcus Freeman, people love and adore him. Lincoln Riley was a big deal, but he went up to USC and surprisingly it's just not gone well. And so his star has fallen.

• 1:47:10Speaker 02

  Kirby Smart, Dabo Sweeney for, for a while was just with all the antics and the, the press conferences and the, the interviews and you know, the, the post game was a, was a big character, but that star has fallen. So, and Kirby Smart's been the most successful coach. And while you can't argue the success, and even though it was, it was the foundation is that of Nick Saban.

• 1:47:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:36Speaker 02

  For whatever reason, he just doesn't carry that, that cachet, right?

• 1:47:41Bill Simmons?

  The Oregon coach seems like he has a little bit of crossover name recognition, but not, not like Lane Kiffin, I don't think.

• 1:47:47Speaker 02

  Not like, and even you know, Chip Kelly, when he was, when they were, when they were rolling, people loved Chip or despised him, but a lot of fun and they, college football, if you look at it right now, it's kind of missing that like sex appeal for, for like the big names and rival coaches and all that.

• 1:48:06Bill Simmons?

  I think so is college basketball, just FYI.

• 1:48:09Speaker 02

  When you said that, it kind of.

• 1:48:10Bill Simmons?

  Patino's probably the most famous college basketball coach right now.

• 1:48:13Speaker 03

  And that's the thing, and he's a holdover from a past era.

• 1:48:16Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:48:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:48:18Speaker 03

  And I'm not saying that it won't happen again, but I'm saying right now, you know, it used to be times where you're looking at, you know, Calipari and all of these guys are on top of it and they had their own little fiefdoms of college basketball. In college football right now, there are a lot of things that are stopping us from getting to the middle of these stories, right? There's every time two teams play, it's about, it's about the playoff, it's about the sea, it's about, it was a lot, a lot of, the cultural clashes is what made the sport special to me. This story is about a cultural clash. And the dominoes that fell around this, how as soon as Lane made his decision. Arkansas has their guy, Florida has their guy, Auburn has their guy.

• 1:48:59Speaker 03

  All of that is about how these, I'm as interested in why John Sumral looked at the Auburn situation and went, can't coach there. Like can't do it. Like these are the things that used to undergird the love for the sport and they kind of get washed over. When you're talking about the transfer portal, you're talking about NIL, you're talking about so many other things than just which culture is superior. The cultural warfare that is college football.

• 1:49:24Speaker 02

  I mean, the, the current system has created a, a bunch of mercenaries from players to coaches. And they really have like, it's, it's pay for play and, and everyone's out to kind of get theirs. And quite honestly, Lane was trying to use this current system to, to go against the establishment in Ole Miss. And, and from what I understand, there were conversations of, well, I'm just going to take the staff and I'm going to take a bunch of these players with me and they won't play if you don't let me coach. And it didn't really work out. That's the other part of this, Van and Bill, like someone snuck a phone into that meeting today and they got it out.

• 1:50:04Speaker 03

  And they taped it.

• 1:50:05Speaker 02

  And they taped it.

• 1:50:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  So everyone had to turn their phone in, someone had a burner phone and someone had it with stuff somewhere where no one knew. And, and taped it when the, the, um, the chancellor and I think the AD, you know, spoke to the team, the players and, and basically, thank you for everything you've done. You have no idea like you're going to 15 years from now, we're going to have you on the field 10, 15 years from now, and we're going to be celebrating you. You have brought memories, you have brought like, you'll never understand what you have brought to this town, this city of Oxford. But also we want to let you know, you got to keep pushing because, because we can still make a run at this and your new head coach is right here. And I was surprised by the level of excitement by the players.

• 1:50:50Speaker 03

  They went nuts.

• 1:50:51Speaker 02

  I think they, they got to a point where they were just fed up with all of it. And, and, and so while Lane thought he was going to leverage these players that love him and would, would die for him, would follow him anywhere. They seem to, and it was just one, you know, one meeting, but there were, it wasn't like, hey, you know, it was going crazy. So that part's interesting too.

• 1:51:14Bill Simmons?

  Let's be honest, guys. This, this could be a sports movie.

• 1:51:17Speaker 03

  I was gonna, I keep trying to get you to get into it. I told you that I was about to hit you up. We, somebody should do this. Cast everyone up and someone should do this. I'll tell you this though. I'll tell you something. Well, there will be some attrition. Not now. They're, they're in the playoff and they will play. After the dust is settled.

• 1:51:37Speaker 02

  No question.

• 1:51:38Speaker 03

  There will be some attrition. The question is who? A lot of people thought Kewon Lacy, Trinidad Chambliss, all of these guys would end up in purple and gold. I don't know that that'll happen, but there are definitely some people. There have been some decommitments already. There have been some players in Louisiana now who are looking around and they might go, huh, I might have the chance to be neighbors or Brian Thomas Jr. Or Jamar Chase again. I might get a chance to get used like that again with the type of offense that they're playing. And there are definitely going to be guys that play for Ole Miss that feel that way as well. There'll be some attrition. The question is how much and when will they start to trickle out? I don't think it'll be until after they're done in the playoff.

• 1:52:17Bill Simmons?

  I mean, Todd, this is your favorite sport. Is this, is all this good? Like what is this? Like what are we ultimately trying to do here as a sport?

• 1:52:28Speaker 02

  Not really, but it, it kind of, it kind of feels like we're always in this.

• 1:52:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:52:33Speaker 02

  You know, like, like, man, things are out of control in college football, whether it's paying players that, you know, it's not legal or illegal recruiting or I grew up, my grandfather got me into this sport, got, gave me an obsession with it. He was a, a quote unquote area recruiter for the University of Michigan for Bo Schembechler. Well, I thought that was the coolest thing in the world, but I didn't realize that like they were having these secret meetings and like Bo was coming to the house and no one was supposed to know about it because what my grandfather was doing was, was illegal at the time probably. And I still don't know exactly how illegal, but this has been going on for.

• 1:53:10Speaker 03

  Your grandfather was Connor Stallions?

• 1:53:12Speaker 02

  No, but maybe before Connor Stallions apparently. I don't like to think of them that way, but I'm just saying I, I feel like college football is always kind of in this seedy. Area and it's kind of what makes it beautiful.

• 1:53:26Bill Simmons?

  Well, now the players have been able to at least match the seediness and be like, all right, now we're gonna do it too.

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  And there's so many negative byproducts of all of this. There's no question. And unfortunately, what following them now to the NFL draft and getting the intel from NFL teams that have private investigators and former FBI agents going and hearing the stories of like, it's hard enough. Marty Schottenheimer had a quote to me once when he was working at ESPN. He said, "The hardest part of evaluating a player, it's not, does he have a big arm or does he run fast? It's, it's knowing that you're about to hand this person three things that he's never had before. More money, more fame, and more free time." And it resonated with me and I'm still 15, 20 years later, still talking about that

• 1:54:14Speaker 02

  quote. But now you're doing it, and that was with like a 20, 21, 22 year old. Now you're doing it with like 16, 17, 18 year olds. And to hear some of the stories going on. So at some point, college football has to have a commissioner. They've got to have a governing body that actually governs over the sport.

• 1:54:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, good luck with that.

• 1:54:34Speaker 02

  But I don't know when that's ever gonna happen. It's gonna, and I've talked to so many head coaches and people in power, like, like the highest up people in power, and they all agree on one thing. It will take the government stepping in and forcing it on college football before, because there's too much money to be had right now. Too many people that are in power are benefiting from it financially.

• 1:54:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, you, you talk about the 15, 16, 17 year olds. You also have this whole class of kind of, kind of like lower level agent slash manager handler.

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:55:07Bill Simmons?

  Deal maker people who have no experience whatsoever, who are super sleazy. I feel like that's where it's gonna go the most sideways.

• 1:55:15Speaker 03

  Do you know, you know what it used to be? It used to be that $40,000 or $50,000 was a lot of money that would really talk. 40 grand, 50 grand, you come work on the staff. Well, you get a car, put you, put you on staff, not even put you on staff at the college, put you on staff at the local high school, put your uncle on staff, let him Call some plays and all of that stuff.

• 1:55:34Speaker 02

  At a dealership or something, yeah.

• 1:55:36Speaker 03

  Dealership, get them all of that stuff. That doesn't move the needle anymore.

• 1:55:39Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:55:40Speaker 03

  We need $250,000 and I need $250,000 and I'm a four star, I'm a four star safety. That's not, if you want a quarterback, that's a mill five, baby, that's two million. It's different. Things are different. And as we adjust to it, there are some bodies that are being left behind. Like right now, I love LSU. It's in my blood. Walked around the campus when I was three years old. Like my mom went there, all of that stuff, right? But I do feel for Ole Miss fans. I feel for what it must be like to be having the greatest season in the history of your school. Then lose your identity, which is what Lane Kiffin was for Ole Miss before you go and get a chance to make a run.

• 1:56:21Speaker 03

  And so I do feel for that, but honestly, it's like, it's the wire, man. It's cold outside.

• 1:56:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, I've known you a long time. You don't feel bad at all. I don't know who you're kidding.

• 1:56:32Speaker 03

  I, I look, it's a cold game. I've been there. Like it's a cold game, man. The thing about the old days is they the old days. That's the thing about them. We, we, we in the new day now and it's, it's kind of getting where you're feeling. It's the way it goes.

• 1:56:48Bill Simmons?

  So Todd, what school is the most bummed out that this happened other than Ole Miss? Alabama?

• 1:56:54Speaker 02

  Uh, Florida because.

• 1:56:56Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 1:56:57Speaker 02

  I mean, Leila, his, his, his own wife went there. His, his, his wife's father was a star quarterback uh, at Florida and went on to play for the Buccaneers, I think it was. They, they, they thought it was, he would, if he's leaving Ole Miss, he's going there. They got the worst AD in the country.

• 1:57:12Bill Simmons?

  So why LSU and not Florida?

• 1:57:16Bill Simmons?

  Like why, why would he pull the trigger on the LSU pick and not wait?

• 1:57:22Speaker 02

  I think, I think if you study both programs, there's, at Florida, there's a little bit more chaos, more bureaucracy.

• 1:57:32Speaker 02

  It's been just

• 1:57:33Speaker 03

  Terrible AD Todd, terrible AD.

• 1:57:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:36Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, I hate to say terrible Strickland is one of the worst ADs. They've, they want, they got a terrible AD, a terrible AD. A guy who can't seem to make the right decisions about anything. It's, it probably spooked a lot of coaches, to be honest with you.

• 1:57:50Bill Simmons?

  Worse than the Syracuse AD who didn't hire Bob Chesney?

• 1:57:55Bill Simmons?

  Little stealth joke for Todd. Two years ago, Todd remembers.

• 1:57:59Speaker 02

  And there's some layers.

• 1:58:00Bill Simmons?

  We might have worked for him once by the time.

• 1:58:02Speaker 02

  We might have.

• 1:58:03Bill Simmons?

  Couldn't do that job either.

• 1:58:05Speaker 03

  Also Saban's influence might have pushed him to LSU just a tad bit, maybe.

• 1:58:12Speaker 02

  Two people that were most influential on this were Nick Saban and Pete Carroll.

• 1:58:18Speaker 02

  And Pete wouldn't, Pete would just, Pete's point to him was,

• 1:58:24Speaker 02

  you did what you were supposed to do at Ole Miss. They'll wind up appreciating you. The players will wind up appreciating you, but it's time for you to go to level up. And you've earned the right to level up through all of everything you've been through. Go take it. Nick's message might, might have been what you're talking about, Van.

• 1:58:43Bill Simmons?

  Well, Todd, you made the key point earlier. The way the system's set up, maybe there's no way that this could be graceful. Like for, for going forward, there's no way this can actually happen in a good way. You'd have to be out of the playoff race.

• 1:58:56Speaker 02

  The only, the only people who are affected by this that I actually care about are the players. And listening to that team meeting, maybe that they're not as affected as I thought.

• 1:59:09Bill Simmons?

  I'm going to be rooting for them now.

• 1:59:10Speaker 02

  Oh, me too.

• 1:59:11Bill Simmons?

  Let's have the sports movie actually happen, Van.

• 1:59:15Bill Simmons?

  Dan, you're doing an unbelievable job of pretending you're not like absolutely euphoric right now. I just, I want to give you a lot of credit. I haven't seen you this happy in a while.

• 1:59:22Speaker 03

  So two things, number one, I'm glad we got our guy. I'm glad we got the coach that we wanted. Number two, if I wanted to be. I could be such a dickhead about this, but I'm choosing if I if I wanted to be. Because if you the some of the some of the some of the texts and calls and I'm getting this. I didn't know we had it like that. We went right over to the next station and took your girl. Wow, you guys was about to get married. I mean, you guys are literally planning the wedding.

• 1:59:52Speaker 02

  No, this is cold blooded.

• 1:59:54Speaker 03

  And we and we said, we got a bigger house. We got a better car. We got a.

• 1:59:59Speaker 03

  Like you come over here and get with us. If I wanted to, I could be a dickhead about it, but I care too much about the sport. I really love college football and I know the fandom that people have and I've been up there to Ole Miss. They're a decent fan, history aside, and I I'll have any problem with them and I know this must hurt. I know this must hurt. Plus, the karma and the energy thing is always a big thing for me, but I'm happy.

• 2:00:22Bill Simmons?

  The karma rolls.

• 2:00:23Speaker 03

  The yeah, like I'm happy that LSU got their guy, but goddamn, that guy to suck, man. That has to be tough.

• 2:00:30Bill Simmons?

  Well, you know, the last honest loyal man in college football was Drake May. Could it could have left, could have left for his last year, jumped to a better program, done it for him. You know what he did? He stayed in North Carolina with an inferior team. Not a great coaching situation because he's a loyal guy, Todd McShay. Drake May, he's built different.

• 2:00:50Speaker 02

  And now he's got a playoff run with no left tackle. So here we are.

• 2:00:56Speaker 03

  You're well.

• 2:00:58Bill Simmons?

  All right. So Todd, you're covering more of this on your podcast tomorrow?

• 2:01:01Speaker 02

  Yes, tomorrow we're uh, yeah, tomorrow morning it'll be up late morning and uh, and I've got I got more on this. You got a lot more on Penn State. This whole, I I don't think until this I real, I mean, I knew that Jimmy Sexton had 14 of 16. You know, SEC coaches and he was powerful. I think this last six, eight weeks has shown us that he literally is the most powerful man in in college football. And he is, he is pulling every string. And if you're a Penn State fan, that is a scary thing right now.

• 2:01:31Bill Simmons?

  And then Van, you're covering more on Ringer Tailgate?

• 2:01:33Speaker 03

  That's what we're doing on Ringer Tailgate on Wednesday. We're doing a deep dive into Jimmy Sexton. We're, yeah, we're doing a deep dive into Jimmy Sexton on Ringer Tailgate because I don't know, you guys would know better than I would, if there's any singular sports figure right now, I guess Clutch has a lot of guys, um, I, Clutch has the Ringer now, I guess Clutch has a lot of guys. I guess Clutch has a lot of guys, but I don't know if there's any one specific figure in any one specific sport from the business side. Honestly, you could talk about Boris,

• 2:02:14Speaker 03

  you could talk about David Falk, he's on that level, but on a crazy level, even on the broadcast, you can hear the guys on the broadcast, Jimmy Sexton clients.

• 2:02:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:02:25Speaker 03

  Talking in a Jimmy Sexton language, it's interesting, it's interesting. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I'm just saying to have a player like that in your sport, it just changes the dynamics completely.

• 2:02:38Bill Simmons?

  Boris felt like he had that going, not recently, but maybe like, what, 10, 12 years ago?

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, it felt like.

• 2:02:44Bill Simmons?

  When it, it felt like he just had everybody for three, four years, but yeah, I mean, this would be the right sport to do it, because it's the wild, wild west. All right, Van on Ringer Tailgate Wednesday, Todd McShay tomorrow, plus Todd's newsletter, which is essential.

• 2:02:58Speaker 03

  Oh, love it.

• 2:02:59Bill Simmons?

  Go Pats. Thanks, guys.

• 2:03:01Speaker 03

  Dan got me a newsletter, I've been looking at the losers, shout out to Dan.

• 2:03:05Bill Simmons?

  I love it, thanks, guys.

• 2:03:07Speaker 02

  No problem. See you, guys.

• 2:03:09Bill Simmons?

  All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sal and Van and McShay and Gahow and Eduardo. Don't forget, rewatchables on Monday night, Rocky II, and Music Box Series actually coming back on HBO and HBO Max on Thursday night with a Jeff Buckley documentary that is fantastic. So I'll talk more about that on Tuesday, but just want to give you a little heads up. Thursday night, we have an awesome football game and you also have a really good documentary to watch. So I will see you on this feed on Tuesday.

• 2:03:56Bill Simmons?

  Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-797777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org, or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 877-8HOPENY, or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy

• 2:04:38Bill Simmons?

  Award winner Martin McDonagh. Writer-director of The Banshees of Inisherin and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys, Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment, and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters November 6. Get tickets now.

• 2:05:15Speaker 04

  Go long! No, I'm not throwing a football with my favorite son, Charles. I'm talking to my new Duke Cannon Puck of Soap. It's triple-milled to last longer and retain its shape down to the last nub. In fantasy football terms, you could say this long-lasting soap takes no bye weeks, or that it's bench-proof, or even that it's a sure-fire league championship winner. Duke Cannon Pucks of Soap are built for guys who want a hard-working, long-lasting soap. Catch one yourself at dukecannon.com or a Target store near you. Duke Cannon Pucks of Soap, triple-milled to last longer.