A Gallardo Restomod?! Bugatti CEO’s Bugatti STOLEN! Civic Type R HRC!

NEW MERCH! https://merch.carsandbids.com Welcome to THIS CAR POD! Doug DeMuro & Friends offers weekly expert insight and opinion on breaking automotive stories, the car market, and audience Q&A. Thank you to our sponsors! Warby Parker - Our listeners can buy one pair of glasses and get 20% off any additional pairs at https://WarbyParker.com/CARS — and using our link helps support the show. #WarbyParker #ad Nokian Tires - Drivers can visit https://NokianTyres.com/doug for more information about the partnership and the Nokian Tyres Hakkapeliitta 01 Square - Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at https://square.com/go/carpod ! #squarepod Ethos - Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/CARS Mothers - Visit https://mothers.com/carsandbids to find out more and purchase Mothers® products! CHAPTERS: 00:00:00 Ed Bolian is Here! 00:00:26 VINwiki Collection 00:08:02 Lamborghini Gallardo Restomod 00:15:51 Warby Parker 00:17:18 Nokian Tyres 00:18:22 Jeep Scrambler 00:23:06 Honda Civic Type R HRC 00:28:45 Square 00:30:06 Ethos 00:30:54 Mate Rimac's Bugatti Was Stolen 00:33:21 Are All Ferrari Luces Actually Sold? 00:42:42 The Pope and Range Rover 00:43:44 Mothers 00:44:36 Ed Bolian's Bugatti Veyron Ownership Experience 01:01:47 Doug's Expensive Color Change 01:05:29 Ultimate Dream Cars 01:10:11 What Does the Future of Automotive Content Look Like? 01:18:09 What Does Ed Tell His Kids About His Job? 01:20:40 Should YouTube Creators Start Businesses? 01:25:17 YouTube Competitors 01:29:52 Questions! 01:31:26 Does Ed Bolian Ever Think About Normal Cars? 01:34:59 How Are the Veyron's Chinese Wheels Holding Up? 01:35:47 What Would You Buy for $10k? 01:37:09 How Do You Feel About Manual Swaps? 01:49:16 Would Ed Consider a Countach or Aventador? 01:54:51 What Car Taught You Your Limits? 01:58:26 How Did Ed Get Doug to Go to the VINwiki Studio? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:05Doug DeMuro?

  Hello and welcome to This Car Pod. I'm Nick.

• 1:11Speaker 03

  I'm Ed Bullion from VinWiki.

• 1:13Doug DeMuro?

  And I'm Doug. Ed is here today, all the way from Atlanta, outside Atlanta. He's joined us today for a lot of reasons. First off, we're going to talk to Ed. We have a lot to say to Ed. There's a lot to cover. But also, VinWiki, Ed's corporation, has a collection of vehicles that they are selling on Cars and Bids. And they are some bangers, folks. They are live, they're going to go live soon.

• 1:39Speaker 03

  Yes, on the 20th.

• 1:40Doug DeMuro?

  On the 20th November. They are bangers. There's this 993.

• 1:44Speaker 03

  We gave that one away when we hit a million subscribers on VinWiki about seven years ago.

• 1:48Doug DeMuro?

  Ed Bullion gave away a 993, people. That's how charitable he is.

• 1:55Speaker 03

  And it's lived a great life.

• 1:57Doug DeMuro?

  The guy's had it for seven years.

• 1:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. He was 21 years old in college when he won.

• 2:01Doug DeMuro?

  And he just kept it. He didn't sell it?

• 2:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, he didn't sell it.

• 2:02Speaker 04

  What was the market value of that when you gave it away?

• 2:04Speaker 03

  I paid 35 grand for it. And I think at the time, it was probably worth 60, 70. We'll see what it's worth now.

• 2:12Doug DeMuro?

  It's worth a lot more now.

• 2:13Speaker 03

  I guess we'll find out. But yes, he's selling it no reserve.

• 2:16Doug DeMuro?

  No reserve.

• 2:17Speaker 03

  I guess that's appropriate if you're given a car to not expect.

• 2:21Doug DeMuro?

  How crazy. What's he going to replace it with?

• 2:23Speaker 03

  You know, he's moved all over the country. He was in Seattle, then he moved to Nashville, now he's in Dallas. And so, he's, he just, I think it depends on how much it brings. I think he wants to, you know, go out and do some shopping.

• 2:35Speaker 04

  I think he's going to do well.

• 2:36Speaker 03

  Yes. It's not a real Carrera RS, but it is a full RS tribute with all OEM parts.

• 2:40Doug DeMuro?

  It looks good.

• 2:41Speaker 03

  I think it was in a track crash around '09, but it was fixed really well. Had a, I mean, a binder full of records, so nice. And my old Scud is selling.

• 2:50Doug DeMuro?

  Your Scud. Did you know about this?

• 2:51Speaker 04

  I did. I know.

• 2:53Doug DeMuro?

  Are you interested? Are you a buyer?

• 2:55Speaker 04

  For those that don't know Ed well, he is known for usually buying the worst example of a nice car.

• 3:00Doug DeMuro?

  That is.

• 3:00Speaker 04

  This fell outside of your normal, this was actually a nice car, though. It's not in our title. There's nothing wrong with it.

• 3:05Speaker 03

  Clean title car, had miles on it. I sold it with low 40s. What's it got now?

• 3:11Doug DeMuro?

  46.3.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  46.3, okay.

• 3:12Doug DeMuro?

  You don't own this car currently?

• 3:13Speaker 03

  I do not. None of these cars I own currently. Generally, every year or two, I'll rack up five, six, seven cars that I don't need and sell them all off. We've done that on Cars and Bids previously. But this time, I just kind of opened it up to the VinWiki storytellers and the people that owned cars that I had in the past.

• 3:29Doug DeMuro?

  Like, hey, we're doing this. Come bring us a car.

• 3:31Speaker 03

  Exactly. Yeah, so there's some old Car Trek cars, things like this, as well as cars that have been featured on the channel in different stories.

• 3:37Doug DeMuro?

  This is a pretty appealing car.

• 3:38Speaker 04

  It's super appealing.

• 3:39Doug DeMuro?

  In part because the Scud market has obviously gone pretty crazy in the last couple of years, year. It's impossible to find one that's relatively affordable.

• 3:46Speaker 04

  With miles.

• 3:47Doug DeMuro?

  With miles, this one probably will be relatively affordable compared to some of the pristine ones that are selling for close to a million bucks.

• 3:53Speaker 04

  And you can drive, 40s are the perfect mileage for a car because you can keep putting miles on and it doesn't really matter like it's driver. But it's not so high mileage that you're also like, ooh, it's going to be sketchy. Like, the 40s are perfect.

• 4:04Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, no, I agree with that.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  Oh, they got the Scud missile plate for it, too.

• 4:08Doug DeMuro?

  What is this interior? This is like...

• 4:11Speaker 03

  It's a little overexposed. It's just a great red, all leather interior. So it's a really nice spec.

• 4:15Doug DeMuro?

  Didn't these have those mesh seats?

• 4:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it was a very expensive option to do full leather.

• 4:20Doug DeMuro?

  Huh. I never knew you could even do it. I thought kind of one of the points of the...

• 4:23Speaker 03

  I like it a lot better, all leather. And it's got the 16M style narrow stripe. It's in '09 rather than an '08. You know, LED steering wheel, really, really nice car. I had missile as a license plate, but it only holds on up to 190 miles an hour. And then when you lose it, you have to file a report. Then I went to MI55. Yeah, but great spec. I love gray cars with red interiors. We're also going to have my gray over red Car Trek 4599.

• 4:48Doug DeMuro?

  Ooh.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  And this one's going to be interesting because it needs a lot. And I kind of told him, I was like, you know, generally, you make it nice to then sell it. He's like, well, I think I'll, you know, the market's going up.

• 5:00Doug DeMuro?

  Just roll the dice.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  He's going to probably make money relative to what he paid me for it.

• 5:04Doug DeMuro?

  Nick, this is a huge car.

• 5:05Speaker 04

  My initial plan was to hold up buying anything until this collection went live.

• 5:09Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 5:09Speaker 04

  And then I lasted like 24 hours. But these are going to be some really great examples. I think at a good deals, but they're all enthusiast spec, like the perfect cars for Cars and Bids.

• 5:18Doug DeMuro?

  And they're cars, they're like cars that people who want to use a car would want.

• 5:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:22Doug DeMuro?

  Or want to like improve a car. Like a 599, there probably is like real value if you did work to it and made it nice.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, it needs the dash recovered, the gauges are out. It was a flood car, needs a clutch. But somebody's probably going to stick swamp it anyway. And so it's just the right sort of project car.

• 5:37Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  Make some content about it. Launch a YouTube channel, whatever you want to do.

• 5:41Speaker 04

  The last Ed Bullion sell-off, I got to go to his place outside of Atlanta.

• 5:45Speaker 03

  And not buy my Diablo.

• 5:47Speaker 04

  And he had the Diablo SV, which was amazing. I loved that car. And then he had another car, I can't remember which one it was. And he was like, yeah, when I was putting it from park to drive, the whole shift mechanism just ripped off the car entirely. So Ed's collections, you can expect varying degrees of quality.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  We did sell a car that you had to shift with a screwdriver. Mercedes wagon.

• 6:07Doug DeMuro?

  Well, that happens.

• 6:08Speaker 03

  It had, we fixed it before it was delivered.

• 6:10Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 03

  But yeah, we got a lot of, and it's some cheap stuff, too. I was selling, there was a car we were going to use for Car Trek. It was a Saturn Sky.

• 6:18Doug DeMuro?

  What was that Tuck Tuck?

• 6:19Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, the Tuck Tuck.

• 6:21Speaker 03

  My sticker guy had, told me, he's like, I've got a Tuck Tuck. Can we sell it? I said, of course we can sell it. And so...

• 6:26Speaker 04

  Number one place to buy and sell Tuck Tucks online.

• 6:28Doug DeMuro?

  We are a Tuck Tuck selling and buying community. We sold Dana White's Tuck Tuck, which was insane. So this is...

• 6:33Speaker 04

  There's a nice Vatt.

• 6:34Doug DeMuro?

  There's a nice Vatt.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  That's Tabbit's.

• 6:35Speaker 04

  We've got a Mustang.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  That Mustang beat my Cannonball record as a coast-to-coast record. So at the time, no one had gone faster than 2850 from the Atlantic to the Pacific. So the shorter route is Jacksonville to San Diego. And so he finished here in Dog Beach, I don't know, maybe a year after.

• 6:54Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I remember.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  And I guess 2749, it says on its sticker. So it is set in a museum next to my car for some time. And now he's going to sell it.

• 7:02Doug DeMuro?

  Nick, you could...

• 7:03Speaker 04

  There's some good stuff here.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  That's cool. Yeah.

• 7:06Speaker 04

  We've got an outlaw build 911 from 1966.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  From Matt's Off-Road Recovery.

• 7:10Speaker 04

  There's a 720S.

• 7:11Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, really?

• 7:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:11Doug DeMuro?

  Matt's Off-Road Recovery has that?

• 7:13Speaker 03

  Fakara built it, and then they had this weird race, and now Matt owns it. And so, yeah, they're selling it.

• 7:18Doug DeMuro?

  No way.

• 7:18Speaker 03

  Yep. Fakara's also selling a Safari 928, which will be fun.

• 7:23Doug DeMuro?

  With, in this collection, the Safari 928?

• 7:24Speaker 03

  And our most, our most famous subscriber at VinWiki is Post Malone. And so his 720S is for sale.

• 7:32Doug DeMuro?

  I didn't realize that. Posty's selling a car?

• 7:34Speaker 03

  Patrick Adair is selling it. He bought it from Posty.

• 7:37Doug DeMuro?

  You know, Post Malone used to text me. But every couple of months, he would like get a new number. He was like a fan of mine. But I haven't heard from him in a long time.

• 7:46Speaker 03

  Yes, that's a beautiful thing.

• 7:47Doug DeMuro?

  Posty, if you're still out there, send me a note. I miss you. It's probably been two years since I've heard from him. He's a real car enthusiast.

• 7:54Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely. Yeah, a Bugatti enthusiast.

• 7:56Doug DeMuro?

  Range Rover, Range Rover, all the ladies pull up. And he's got a first gen Explorer. Don't forget that.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 8:00Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, okay, this is, there's some great stuff here.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  It's going to be fun. I think we're probably going to have at least 20 cars. There's, I think there's 34 that have been like committed, and we'll see how many will make it to the finish line. Not to disparage your, you know, submission process, but there are many steps.

• 8:17Doug DeMuro?

  They require photos, and the cars have to keep running the whole time.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  And most of these guys are like, can they just come get it? Like, so we're being as hands-on as we can.

• 8:26Doug DeMuro?

  But there's good stuff already that, like, every car we just saw is obviously already going up.

• 8:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:31Doug DeMuro?

  There's good stuff coming. I'm pumped.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  I am too. I'm excited to see where they all end up.

• 8:35Doug DeMuro?

  These are, you've just organized this.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:37Doug DeMuro?

  You do work for us now?

• 8:39Speaker 03

  Well...

• 8:39Doug DeMuro?

  Did Sean pay you for this?

• 8:40Speaker 03

  I have tried to open up different opportunities that normally would be stuff I do for the people that appear on the channel. And so we've gone on different car adventures and rented tracks and stuff like that. And so I thought, since I don't have anything I'm looking to blow out right now, let's see what they want to sell.

• 8:55Doug DeMuro?

  How come you don't have your own car auction site? We'll think, we'll think about that, and we will have a conversation about that later. Uh, I want to, we've got to move on to the other news stories this week. There were not a lot of great ones, but we're here.

• 9:08Speaker 04

  We are here.

• 9:09Doug DeMuro?

  Boom.

• 9:11Speaker 04

  The most, well, we struggled on what was the most noteworthy, but a resto mod has debuted at the Las Vegas Concorde right before SEMA, which is a recreation of the Lamborghini Gallardo. Now, most of you may remember the Lamborghini Gallardo from recent history. It debuted in 2004 in the United States and ran until 2013. So we're talking about a car that's arguably only 13 years old, give or take.

• 9:33Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 9:34Speaker 04

  Uh, maybe a little older if you go to the beginning.

• 9:35Doug DeMuro?

  We're ready for some Aventador resto mods next.

• 9:37Speaker 04

  They're coming.

• 9:38Doug DeMuro?

  We're pulling out.

• 9:39Speaker 04

  The, so it's the original designer, which I think was why people were excited. Million dollar price tag. Allegedly they're only making 25.

• 9:45Doug DeMuro?

  On top of the donor.

• 9:46Speaker 04

  At top of the donor car, but that's inconsequential.

• 9:50Doug DeMuro?

  Minimal to the value of the whole thing.

• 9:51Speaker 04

  I assume you would get a rougher one for this type of thing, too. The, the, so I'll, I'll start with the positive, which is a very short list. It has popped down headlights.

• 10:00Doug DeMuro?

  You don't think it looks good?

• 10:01Speaker 04

  Uh, no.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  Well, it looks great because the Gallardo looks great and it's also funded by the Piak family. So they're celebrating a lot of the Piak cars, like the FKPs.

• 10:10Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, is that right?

• 10:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it's like, there's, there's a lot going on there. And even though it looks just like a Gallardo, you'll notice behind the front fender that it is a little wider. It is all carbon fiber. It is wider. It is manual.

• 10:24Doug DeMuro?

  It's an all carbon body?

• 10:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 10:26Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, Nick, you're selling this thing short.

• 10:28Speaker 04

  It.

• 10:29Speaker 03

  And they're only gonna make 25 of them. So not that many people need to like it.

• 10:32Speaker 04

  The problem with Gallardos, both Gen one and Gen two, is that everyone resto modded them in period with aftermarket bumpers and lots of tasteless modifications. And so you look at this, especially that front bumper, and you think, was the guy just trying to facelift his 04 Gallardo to look newer?

• 10:46Doug DeMuro?

  It does look.

• 10:47Speaker 04

  Or did someone spend a million dollars to give the same effect?

• 10:50Doug DeMuro?

  It does look a little, especially when you see the black, uh, like, like reflector.

• 10:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:55Doug DeMuro?

  Which was a common in-period mod done by people who were stretching to afford the car. It does look a little.

• 11:01Speaker 04

  And the wheels look very Aventador. Like, it, it looks like someone's just trying to like minorly facelift a Gallardo and mod it, rather than like to me, something.

• 11:09Doug DeMuro?

  I think it looks cool. They're not doing any powertrain stuff. You said they're all gonna be manual.

• 11:13Speaker 04

  You get 30 horsepower more.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  And they are going to make a Superleggera-ish version supposedly with more aero and things like that.

• 11:21Doug DeMuro?

  Have you thought about sending your Superleggera to get the million dollar donor car?

• 11:26Speaker 04

  I'm good. I'm good. Much like the SLR, right? McLaren's been doing high downforce kits and like recommissioning.

• 11:32Doug DeMuro?

  The number of these resto mod, the Jaguar XJS was not one that I expected.

• 11:37Speaker 03

  That was a curveball. But it's TWR. I mean, it's super cool. I, I mean.

• 11:41Doug DeMuro?

  Fury, it's super cool. It's big money for a $5,100 used car. No offense to all the XJSs on Cars and Bids.

• 11:48Speaker 04

  I think they would all agree.

• 11:50Doug DeMuro?

  I think they would.

• 11:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, they all know. It's not a secret.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  And it's interesting. I mean, which one would you buy?

• 11:58Doug DeMuro?

  Boy, probably the most appealing ones to me are the Congaldon Range Rover Classics.

• 12:04Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  Some of the Range Rover stuff is.

• 12:06Doug DeMuro?

  And Wagon Master, the Grand Wagoneer.

• 12:08Speaker 03

  I mean, the HWA thing is amazing, the Evo, and they just teased the next thing, which is a Hammer style thing.

• 12:14Doug DeMuro?

  Some of this stuff just goes like beyond, like when I look at those RWB Porsches and stuff, it goes beyond like what I, if I wanted a resto mod car, I would really want it to be like a pretty, like subtle, kind of a modern take on, instead of like a goes out there, does crazy stuff. Like the TWR Jag.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  Like a backdated 964 built around here.

• 12:32Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but I don't, that's not my thing. I don't get into that stuff, especially for two and a half.

• 12:36Speaker 04

  I, I think you gotta go to cars that are like 80s or older, that were kind of like underwhelming driving experiences by today's standards, where you can modernize them and add a lot to the driving experience. A Gallardo's 500 horsepower, all-wheel drive and offered in a manual. Like, you're, there's nothing you can really add, and they didn't. It's 40 horsepower. It was already a manual.

• 12:55Doug DeMuro?

  It's not hurting for style.

• 12:55Speaker 03

  Do you want a Mystic Mustang GTD?

• 12:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, that would be cool.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  That would be awesome.

• 13:00Doug DeMuro?

  There's a, there are a lot of cars for which this is occurring. Uh, I'm, it's kind of a surprise. Surprise seat on the Gallardo, but maybe now this is the, you see Singer makes all this money though, and they've got this incredible reputation.

• 13:10Speaker 04

  But the air-cooled Porsches suck.

• 13:11Doug DeMuro?

  And Icon does too, right? And it's hard to sit there on the sidelines, if you're a fabricator or whatever, and say like, I could be doing this, as opposed to just like fixing dudes' cars, you know, as a mechanic or whatever. Like, we could be making high quality product.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  But other than those two, Icon and Singer, which have been true commercial successes? I mean, this, selling 25 of these things, you're not gonna make money.

• 13:31Doug DeMuro?

  Right, yeah.

• 13:31Speaker 03

  It's, you may, you know, have this like installation into car culture that becomes meaningful, but like, are any of the other ones?

• 13:39Speaker 04

  There's, there's a couple that do 60s Broncos.

• 13:41Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, sure.

• 13:41Speaker 04

  With coyote swaps and stuff that are, that are pretty successful. But yeah, it's off-roader.

• 13:45Doug DeMuro?

  But also, it doesn't stop people. They, they see what's poss, like, think about all the other auction sites that have tried to show up. I don't know if you pay attention to this, but you should see the sheer number.

• 13:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:55Doug DeMuro?

  Of other, and like, two of us have worked, and I'm not joking, 65 have failed, including Porsche tried one. Like, it is a disaster. And so like, people see Singer and they see Icon and they're like, yeah, we can do that. Well, it's harder than it looks, turns out. Like a lot of stuff.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  Yep. But I, I just, it's certainly, I don't know what the age cutoff is, uh, as, a lot of people would say 13 years is too young.

• 14:19Doug DeMuro?

  What car would you want?

• 14:21Speaker 04

  Take that for what it's worth.

• 14:22Doug DeMuro?

  Singerized, if you could?

• 14:25Speaker 03

  I mean, having owned old Range Rovers, it makes all the sense in the world because they are awful to drive, but you still want them so desperately.

• 14:33Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 14:33Speaker 03

  I mean, there's, people have always talked about Countaches, right? That the, if somebody could properly singerize. But the question is, what does singerizing even mean?

• 14:42Doug DeMuro?

  Right, because, because a lot of people wouldn't want an inch to change on the appearance of a Countach.

• 14:46Speaker 04

  Agreed.

• 14:47Doug DeMuro?

  You want, you would want it to be mechanical. But then there are people who would want it to be modernized some. But then you start throwing LED tails and big wheels on a Countach and suddenly you've lost.

• 14:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. If you want a modernized Countach, buy a Diablo.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  Or buy Lamborghini's modernized Countach, right? So I.

• 15:01Speaker 04

  They continue that lineage. Like, it's entirely possible to do this.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  And the problem is like, and I know you love your Countach, but the reason that you can love it is that it was woken up properly, maintained, and you can keep driving it. The problem, people's perception of Countaches is that somebody had one that they drove once every six months, kind of, up the street, and it was a finicky, terrible car. When they, if you drove them every day, it'd be perfectly fine.

• 15:26Doug DeMuro?

  Which is minus.

• 15:27Speaker 03

  That's it. That's it. And so that's the way you singerize it, is you just actually drive, you maintain it and drive it.

• 15:32Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Yeah, I don't, when I drive the Countach, I don't sit there thinking, I wish this was modern, more modern in XYZ ways. I think the reason it works for 964s and Singer is that, um, there's a lot of those. And so like, you might as, let's try something different. It is interesting. There's a lot of these things. What would you get? Like, what, if you could?

• 15:52Speaker 03

  I talked to the guys at Eccentrica about.

• 15:54Doug DeMuro?

  The Diablo.

• 15:55Speaker 03

  The Diablo, because I, I think that's pretty fascinating. I love the Diablo and they're lovely to drive. But I thought it was interesting what they were doing and the, especially the whole bare carbon one, I thought was nice. But I, and I do like the HWA cars. They, their pipeline is pretty interesting of some of the other.

• 16:10Doug DeMuro?

  Reliability would be a big factor for me. It'd be a very important component.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  Of course, it has to be. Yeah. Uh, but I think those would be, what about you?

• 16:17Speaker 04

  I hate those Eccentrica cars.

• 16:19Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 16:19Speaker 04

  I, I, I think the cars are special because they were compromised. They were up the era.

• 16:25Doug DeMuro?

  I agree with that. To an extent, I agree with that.

• 16:26Speaker 04

  Leave these cars alone. I think the reason air-cooled Porsches work is that there were so many of them that you can afford to cut up 20, 30% of them and still have enough survivors. But Diablo's were never high volume. Gallardos, you could argue, had the volume. It's just not old enough yet. Um, I'm just generally not into this.

• 16:43Doug DeMuro?

  What about a Lincoln Mark VI?

• 16:46Speaker 04

  No.

• 16:46Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. Uh, all right. Uh, next, next news story, please.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  I would never let my car go a mile past overdue for an oil change. My eyes, though? Years without an exam. Glasses always felt complicated and overpriced, and exams were even worse. You find a doctor, sort out insurance, book it, then buy your glasses somewhere else entirely. But your vision is an important part of your health, so exams are regular maintenance for me now. That's why I'm obsessed with Warby Parker. They made that whole experience easier. You can get an eye exam right in one of their stores, so there's no running around and no guessing if your prescription's current. It's clean and modern, and it feels more like a wellness visit than a trip to the eye doctor. They're covered by many major eye insurance plans. Enter your info, and if you're eligible for benefits on frames,

• 17:33Speaker 04

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• 18:18Speaker 04

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• 19:00Speaker 04

  on. The result? Up to 10% better ice grip, 5% better wet grip, and 30% less road wear, plus reduced road noise. Don't wait until you're watching the first snowfall. Plan your swap now, check your tread and inflation while you're at it, and check the studded tire rules where you live. Find the Nokian Hakapalita 01 at TireRack. Find out more using the link in our description box below.

• 19:22Doug DeMuro?

  Jeep and, if you see this?

• 19:25Speaker 03

  Is it a Hummer?

• 19:26Doug DeMuro?

  So Jeep has announced this SEMA concept called the Scrambler.

• 19:30Speaker 04

  No, it's the Gladiator.

• 19:32Doug DeMuro?

  It's a Wrangler.

• 19:33Speaker 03

  But it looks dimensionally exactly like a new Hummer.

• 19:36Doug DeMuro?

  Well, they, they probably stretched some stuff out. It's not.

• 19:39Speaker 03

  I am aware it's not a Hummer.

• 19:40Doug DeMuro?

  So General Motors is Hummer, and then Jeep is Chrysler.

• 19:44Speaker 03

  Looks like they just put a Jeep body to fit a Hummer.

• 19:48Doug DeMuro?

  Do you think this is cool?

• 19:48Speaker 04

  The rear end is what's cool. So there's two seats facing backward.

• 19:51Doug DeMuro?

  Like an old Subaru Brat.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  I like looking backwards.

• 19:54Speaker 04

  Yep. And then no roof, obviously. It, it's with a 392 underneath it. So it would be the perfect Nantucket car, one might argue.

• 20:01Doug DeMuro?

  That the backseat is a two-seater and I need three. I need five total seats.

• 20:04Speaker 04

  They could squeeze in.

• 20:05Doug DeMuro?

  I love this thing. If they did a five-seater, it would be very difficult for me not to want this instead of a, so I'm buying a Wrangler 392 in like two months because I have to. I don't want to. I've been backed into a corner. And so now a new contender emerges.

• 20:19Speaker 04

  Filson always exists. Now, this was debuted at SEMA.

• 20:23Doug DeMuro?

  Right.

• 20:23Speaker 04

  So it's a concept.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  But it's done by SRT.

• 20:25Doug DeMuro?

  It's generally being discussed, though, that this is likely that something like this will see production.

• 20:30Speaker 04

  Tim Kanaschkes himself ruled this out, so a suit from Fiat Chrysler.

• 20:35Doug DeMuro?

  A suit? He's like the horsepower man. Are you concerned after the election that happened a couple of days ago? That the days of these V8 cars, we were doing a news story every week about how V8s are back. Are you concerned that the trajectory is now, that this thing is going to show up and it's going to have 13-inch wheels with aero covers and a hybrid two-cylinder?

• 20:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, I guess it was a good day for the Project 01 Jaguar and a bad day if you are part of any SRT or Ram-adjacent brand.

• 21:04Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 21:04Speaker 03

  Are they allowed to make street legal cars with rear-facing seats like that?

• 21:10Doug DeMuro?

  The Mercedes-Benz E-Class to this day.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  Still has it.

• 21:12Doug DeMuro?

  We use them every single day.

• 21:14Speaker 03

  Do they have to have harnesses?

• 21:15Doug DeMuro?

  No, it's a-

• 21:16Speaker 03

  Because the Tesla ones had to have harnesses because you didn't want, so you don't hit the-

• 21:19Doug DeMuro?

  There must be a-

• 21:20Speaker 04

  There's no glass back there to hit.

• 21:21Doug DeMuro?

  The Tesla one you were in the trunk, like in the Mercedes that you're in a cargo area.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 21:25Doug DeMuro?

  It's just a three-point seatbelt.

• 21:27Speaker 04

  It's a cool concept. I mean, there's a lot of SEMA cars there where I think, again, now that the traditional auto show is somewhat dormant.

• 21:35Doug DeMuro?

  Here's an opportunity to like, concept car stuff.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  There's, someone bought a modded Bugatti EB110.

• 21:41Doug DeMuro?

  Did you see this?

• 21:42Speaker 04

  Which, speaking of, restomods that never needed to happen.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  Compelling option.

• 21:47Doug DeMuro?

  You think it's compelling?

• 21:48Speaker 03

  Not, a proper restomod is interesting because EB110s, now, again, nobody's driving them every day. I think they'd probably work if you did.

• 21:55Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 03

  But I don't know if you could restomod one into a form where you could only drive it once a month and it behave itself?

• 22:01Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 22:01Speaker 03

  But that would be fascinating. But iridescent widebody was not what I meant when I said restomod, but it is quite a thing.

• 22:09Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, that's, that was something. That car, even though it's gotten valuable, it's like all speculative.

• 22:14Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 22:15Doug DeMuro?

  Like, there's no enthusiasts who like have coalesced around that car.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  Camisa's piece on it was amazing, though. I mean, like, it was a really impressive-

• 22:22Doug DeMuro?

  I agree.

• 22:23Speaker 03

  Like-

• 22:23Doug DeMuro?

  Nonetheless, though, like, no one, you know what I mean? Like, there's no enthusiasts who are like, the EB110 is what I'm looking for one day. It's got, it's kind of been brought up because Bugatti's been brought up a bit, like, in general.

• 22:35Speaker 03

  Not just because Carrio bought six of them.

• 22:37Doug DeMuro?

  Is that true?

• 22:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:38Doug DeMuro?

  They're sitting on six?

• 22:39Speaker 03

  They sold some of them. One of them, they sold into Alpharetta, that was true from-

• 22:43Doug DeMuro?

  You see an EB110 driving around.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  I don't, but it's there. It's in the garage somewhere nearby.

• 22:48Doug DeMuro?

  Sitting in a barn.

• 22:49Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 22:49Doug DeMuro?

  On Montana plates. Anyway, this is cool.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  We don't have to do Montana plates anymore. No tax on 25-year-old cars in Georgia.

• 22:56Doug DeMuro?

  Is that true?

• 22:57Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 22:57Speaker 04

  Is that a new thing?

• 22:58Speaker 03

  And the crazier thing was the, you know, Carrera GTs were always taxed as boxers. So if you did a private-party transaction on a Carrera GT, you paid tax on like 1,500 bucks.

• 23:08Doug DeMuro?

  Dang.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  But you'd still see people driving around on Montana.

• 23:11Doug DeMuro?

  There's no tax on 25-year-old cars in Georgia.

• 23:13Speaker 03

  Technically, it's 1%.

• 23:14Doug DeMuro?

  What's the emissions?

• 23:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:15Speaker 03

  Nothing, nothing after 25.

• 23:18Doug DeMuro?

  After 25?

• 23:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:18Doug DeMuro?

  So 2001. Folks, move to Georgia.

• 23:20Speaker 03

  Just do.

• 23:21Doug DeMuro?

  I've been begging my wife, the last couple of months especially.

• 23:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:24Doug DeMuro?

  I've been begging to move back to Atlanta.

• 23:27Speaker 04

  I'm annoyed because I always hated your rhetoric, and then I visited it, and I'm like, oh, I get it. It is beautiful here.

• 23:33Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, really? You thought it was beautiful?

• 23:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:35Doug DeMuro?

  Damn, okay. A lot of people would say, I mean, San Diego, we're here on the coast.

• 23:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, but you know, like, there's some things going for it, for sure.

• 23:43Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah? What kind of things?

• 23:46Speaker 04

  A lot of trees, which I also thought was an absurd thing for you to point out, but they got a lot more trees than we do.

• 23:51Doug DeMuro?

  They do. They also have a lot more rain, but I'm willing to accept it.

• 23:54Speaker 04

  And they've had Bolian.

• 23:55Doug DeMuro?

  They got Ed Bolian.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  I could have been best friends with Ed Bolian instead of you.

• 23:59Doug DeMuro?

  Instead of me!

• 24:00Speaker 04

  I know.

• 24:00Doug DeMuro?

  You could be hanging out with Ed Bolian. Give us our next news story.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  Fork in the road.

• 24:04Doug DeMuro?

  Wouldn't that be amazing?

• 24:06Speaker 03

  Phew.

• 24:07Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, what is this?

• 24:09Speaker 03

  Glowing in the dark.

• 24:10Speaker 04

  Speaking of debuts this week that are concepts, but concepts that have a moderate to decent chance of making production.

• 24:17Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 24:17Speaker 04

  Honda is teasing not just the Type R, which already exists, but the HRC Edition. So think like there's a GT3 would be the Type R. This is a GT3 RS version, like the track hardcore, like, cutting-edge, more fun version of a Civic Type R.

• 24:32Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 24:32Speaker 04

  It is not confirmed to go to production, but a lot of people think that this is probably the right move and that it is highly likely to become a thing.

• 24:40Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 24:40Speaker 04

  Obviously, not in this livery, like this is meant to be camo, but you can see even through this heinous wrap here, like, revised bodywork to make it look cooler. It's sitting low, it's got a big wing. Again, you just take the Type R and you dial it up maybe 20%, and you have the HRC.

• 24:55Doug DeMuro?

  So it turns out HRC, which I hadn't heard before, you know, they were coming out with these off-road versions of the Ridgeline and the Passport. They called it HPD, which is like Honda Performance Development or something. But now we've got HRC, we're going in a different direction, but okay, fine. Apparently, they're coming out with a line of performance parts and they want to, they want to sort of supplement it.

• 25:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  But when you think about modified Hondas, that you think about bolt-on body panels, that's, I mean, those look, the flares, everything. I think that's what we remember from the Fast and Furious days of how you spice up your Honda. And especially with a lot of the world allowing less modification, the fact that you can get it at a dealership or even from the manufacturer on your window stickers, probably possible.

• 25:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, I agree.

• 25:38Doug DeMuro?

  Especially if-

• 25:38Speaker 03

  Still probably 80 grand.

• 25:40Doug DeMuro?

  Especially if HRC is this performance line they want to launch, it gives credibility to actually have a car. Because I know Honda, I will bet you anything that it comes out, it's expensive and it has no extra power, but it has like some aero and some brakes and like an intercooler. And so that, that's the HRC version. Me and you would like an extra 50 horses.

• 25:57Speaker 04

  I look at a Civic and I think that's fast enough.

• 25:59Doug DeMuro?

  Me and you would like a V8.

• 26:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:01Doug DeMuro?

  We're trying to sneak that in before the libs get back.

• 26:05Speaker 04

  You got, what, a couple of months?

• 26:06Doug DeMuro?

  You don't have long. Come on, Honda.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Get it out.

• 26:09Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, no, it's going to end up having, it's going to end up being like a lightly upgraded. Are you a Civic Type R man, Nick?

• 26:16Speaker 04

  You know, I think it'd be a great daily. As someone who works from home, I don't need a great daily, but if I did, it would be hard to say, oh, you got kind of like the reliability and the fuel economy of a Honda, four doors. It's cool. I can see how people arrive at that. It's not for me.

• 26:30Doug DeMuro?

  You ever have any Japanese cars?

• 26:32Speaker 03

  No, I've never-

• 26:33Doug DeMuro?

  Really?

• 26:33Speaker 03

  No, I haven't.

• 26:34Doug DeMuro?

  Not one?

• 26:34Speaker 03

  No.

• 26:34Doug DeMuro?

  Really?

• 26:35Speaker 03

  I've only owned one American car. It was a Cadillac Limousine that we cannonballed.

• 26:39Doug DeMuro?

  You're kidding.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  I'm not. I don't know. I just-

• 26:41Speaker 04

  How is that possible?

• 26:43Doug DeMuro?

  Damn.

• 26:43Speaker 04

  How many cars do you think you've had in your lifetime? 100?

• 26:46Speaker 03

  Uh, seven, like, 80? 75, 80?

• 26:49Speaker 04

  And not a single Japanese or American car?

• 26:52Speaker 03

  No, not for any amount of time.

• 26:53Speaker 04

  Wow. You call me a Euro car snob.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  I've had a lot of them.

• 26:57Doug DeMuro?

  I got on this thing because I have my, I now daily a Mark IV Supra.

• 27:00Speaker 04

  He got one Japanese car and now he considers himself a JDM boy.

• 27:04Doug DeMuro?

  I've had more Toyotas than any other brand, except Mercedes, and I've had more Nissans than Porsches. I want to be clear about this. Um, no, I've had everything, but I now drive this daily, this Supra, and I am absolutely in love with it.

• 27:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 27:16Doug DeMuro?

  And all these JDM car guys, when I drive around, are like, so excited.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  I'm sure.

• 27:21Doug DeMuro?

  And so now I'm like feeling like I'm part of the scene, you know what I'm saying?

• 27:24Speaker 03

  Oh, you're just back to every Doug, not Carrera GT, Ford GT Doug.

• 27:28Doug DeMuro?

  Have you, have you considered maybe joining the scene?

• 27:32Speaker 03

  Uh, no, but I did buy a similar price point, similar enthusiast car that I haven't-

• 27:38Doug DeMuro?

  You haven't announced?

• 27:39Speaker 04

  Ooh, let's hear it.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  Well, it's a, you know, it's a Tuscan.

• 27:41Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:43Speaker 04

  I have spoiled your group within the, our group chat, but for the listeners, what kind of Tuscan, what makes it special?

• 27:50Speaker 03

  Oh, it's, it's the most special Tuscan, we'll say.

• 27:54Doug DeMuro?

  Nick, pull up a Tuscan for us. Oh, wow.

• 27:58Speaker 04

  Voila.

• 27:58Doug DeMuro?

  Convenient.

• 27:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:00Speaker 03

  Uh, so mine has about 10,000 miles since the last engine rebuild, which is routine maintenance for the cars. I, it was kind of a fool me once because I had a Cerbera, which, if the guy can figure out your auction process, they're going to sell my CarTrek Cerbera as well. A Ben Wiki sell-off, but-

• 28:17Doug DeMuro?

  Damn, Nick.

• 28:18Speaker 04

  I need to bet on all of them.

• 28:20Speaker 03

  That's it. So it's, it's coming, but it's on a boat now, on its way from Belgium.

• 28:25Doug DeMuro?

  What is your plan with this Tuscan? You going to daily it or something?

• 28:27Speaker 03

  I have, so the, the car that I had, the TVR previously, was modified by Carisma, which is the West Coast Customs of England. And so it was on like their version of Pimp My Ride.

• 28:38Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 28:39Speaker 03

  And it was not the normal, there you go, there's some pictures of it.

• 28:44Doug DeMuro?

  Just go ahead and press images, you know, Google Images?

• 28:47Speaker 03

  There you go. There it is at the Freedom Factory. Um, and it, uh, it was rubbing so badly on that bank turn that we couldn't really do a lap at speed because the body kit was not engineered by Honda. But it's, uh, you know, they're such cool cars.

• 29:04Doug DeMuro?

  They are.

• 29:04Speaker 03

  We all have so many positive memories of them in popular culture, so I'm excited. I think it'll just be a fun driver. You know, having, obviously having the Bugatti, having the Mercys, all the cars that I love, you sometimes don't think like, what cheaper cars do I want to go play with? Like your Supra, and so I think it's going to be a blast.

• 29:21Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, no, I agree with you. We talk a lot about TVRs in the world because Nick's been in one. I've driven a couple. I think they're awesome. I actually think the Tuscan is cooler than the Cerbera or any of the other ones. It looks awesome. It looks like more modern and ridiculous and, and they're not that expensive.

• 29:35Speaker 04

  When you're done with it, I'm going to have Doug lowball you on my behalf, much like, hey, I bought the SLR.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  Excellent, excellent. Well, we'll meet right smack down in the middle at whatever I wanted in the first place.

• 29:45Speaker 04

  Producer Sean and I grabbed a coffee in, Altria Coffee in Ocean Beach, where we debated who was going to get swapped first, me and my Gherdo or him and his 360. When we were there, I paid for coffee because I think he's falling behind, and I noticed when we checked out that they run on Square. I tapped my card, the receipt hit my phone in seconds, and we were out the door, back to talking about cars. It was smooth, modern, and with zero friction. Sean might live in an artsy hippie neighborhood, but they have it together. That's because of today's sponsor, Square. They keep rolling out tools so owners spend less time managing the day-to-day and more time going. There's AI that turns your sales data into real answers, like what's moving and where you're losing time or money.

• 30:28Speaker 04

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• 31:07Speaker 05

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• 31:52Speaker 05

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• 31:55Doug DeMuro?

  Give us our next news story.

• 31:57Speaker 04

  Also a really good one. So Mate Rimac had his personal Chiron stolen from the factory. Apparently he is known for leaving the keys in the car because he has a bunch of them. He has to get all around. So he says it's a very safe environment. I've always done this. It's never been an issue.

• 32:12Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 32:13Speaker 04

  Well, a bloke.

• 32:14Doug DeMuro?

  It's in Croatia, right?

• 32:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, what they call him over there. A bloke walked in wanting to apply for a job and didn't find the guy to give the resume to, but saw the car with the keys in it and just kind of thought, oh, well, maybe I'll help myself and took off in it. He got away for about an hour and a half before he was apprehended in Austria. And the car was returned and Mate Rimac, to his credit, was basically like, I'm not going to press charges. I shouldn't have left the keys in it. But like, that's the craziest job interview story I've ever heard.

• 32:44Doug DeMuro?

  He didn't hire the guy?

• 32:46Speaker 04

  Maybe he should have.

• 32:46Speaker 03

  He offered to drive him home and the cops said no. Drive the car thief to his home. Because obviously they had a tracking device on it because they found it within an hour. But I mean, I don't know where you're going to hide a Chiron in Croatia or Austria. But I mean, I don't know. I would have had a hard time resisting it.

• 33:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, crime of opportunity.

• 33:07Doug DeMuro?

  Chiron, keys in it. I mean, it's like an attractive nuisance, right? Like a swimming pool. Your neighbor kid jumps in your swimming pool, you know? You can't stop that.

• 33:15Speaker 03

  Point out in the comments that there has been a Chiron circulating in one of these Facebook groups of like Stryker cars that have been stolen.

• 33:21Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, really?

• 33:22Speaker 03

  And I've tried many times to buy it and they want like 50 grand, but then they disappear. They don't respond to your messages.

• 33:29Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, interesting.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Obviously no title, no question sort of situation, but that might've been where it was headed.

• 33:34Doug DeMuro?

  How many of those Facebook groups are you involved in?

• 33:36Speaker 03

  A good number of them, yes.

• 33:38Doug DeMuro?

  How about you?

• 33:39Speaker 04

  None, but I would love your contact.

• 33:42Doug DeMuro?

  They're all over Facebook. Oh yeah, like no title cars.

• 33:44Speaker 04

  I'm in some salvage title groups, but I haven't gotten a no title. That's level of degeneracy I'm at. Okay.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  I mean, my thought is it would just be fun. I've tried to buy a couple of them that come across interesting and I'll just like, I'll find the owner that is missing this car. I'll drive it for a little while, make a video about it and then bring them their car back, which they won't be pleased with because they'll have already gotten the insurance money. But I think it'd be a blast.

• 34:05Speaker 04

  Can I point out one more thing before we move on?

• 34:09Speaker 03

  It's there.

• 34:09Doug DeMuro?

  You see the resemblance?

• 34:10Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 34:10Doug DeMuro?

  You think you look like him.

• 34:11Speaker 04

  We both got great hair, nice beard, roughly the same physique.

• 34:15Doug DeMuro?

  You ever been to Croatia?

• 34:16Speaker 04

  I think if I stole his car, I could get away with it. They would just play, hey Mate.

• 34:21Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 34:21Speaker 04

  All right. Next news story, please.

• 34:23Doug DeMuro?

  Ferrari, you know, there was an interesting thing today. Ferrari's announced their profits. They were stronger than expected. Everything's great over in the world of Ferrari. But in this announcement, they also said that they've allocated all of the Luches. And to me, that's very careful language because I worked in vehicle allocation back when I worked for an automaker. And I suspect that when they say that, they were very careful not to say they've sold out. They've sold the private buyers. They've got the waiting list. They've allocated them all suggests to me that they have found dealers for them all.

• 34:59Speaker 03

  Probably they actually did find customers because they populated the allocation into your Ferrari app.

• 35:06Doug DeMuro?

  But regardless, like these cars are not paid for. These cars are not. I have a suspicion that cars have found a place that like when an automaker sells a car to a distributor, the automaker's hands clean.

• 35:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 35:20Doug DeMuro?

  It's game. That's it. That's all they have to do. Or the distributor sells it to the dealer. Like you could call that the end of the line. But to an automaker, that's the end of the line. That's the allocation.

• 35:29Speaker 03

  Well, they're all separate entities. So you have Porsche AG and then Porsche Cars North America.

• 35:34Doug DeMuro?

  When I worked for Porsche, like, and this is true of any automaker, when the car was wholesale to the dealer, that was it. That was the end of our op, our situation. Now, because the brand has desires beyond just wholesaling cars, you also supported them with marketing and incentives and various other things. And because you wanted them to also sell the car and you needed them to make money and all that. But like Ferrari did not say that the car is sold out. I just have this, I don't know anyone who has one, who has ordered one. I know a lot of people who have a lot of Ferraris and they are steering the hell clear of this thing, except for a couple of people who have been told that they must.

• 36:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 36:12Doug DeMuro?

  I think it's a bunch of BS and I think they're using carefully worded language to dance around the fact that the car is not sold at all.

• 36:19Speaker 03

  Well, this has happened before and to Ferrari's credit, bringing the Luche out is a way to naturally attract different buyers than you would get for an SF90XX. The same way the California was supposed to be that. The problem with Californias was they didn't make enough of them to sell past the natural demand of the people that already buy everything.

• 36:41Doug DeMuro?

  Right.

• 36:41Speaker 03

  And the same thing was true for Purosangra. The same thing is going to be true for Luche. They aren't going to make them enough of them or they're not going to excuse the people who believe they must buy them.

• 36:53Doug DeMuro?

  Right, from buying them.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  And they won't fall for that trick again because they did it with SP1 and SP2. And then when they said, oh, okay, I won't buy the $2.5 million not street legal car. And then they're like, but now you don't get an SP3, so.

• 37:07Doug DeMuro?

  Turned out selling for 10 million.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  Exactly, 20.

• 37:09Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but it's an interesting situation. You can only jam this down these people's throats so long. Like this is an expensive car and it's going to be valueless.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  Well.

• 37:20Doug DeMuro?

  Valueless.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  Ferrari has figured out that there is actually no standard of customer engagement that people will, that enough people will say no to that they can't sell cars.

• 37:30Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  Right? And so they've had to continue to increase the number of their rarest cars to keep them happy and they still make enough people angry. So we know they have at least 1,500 people that are doing absolutely anything they say.

• 37:45Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. But at some point, when you lose 300,000 on an SF90 and you presumably are going to lose money on a 12-cylinder, which is what we call it on this podcast, and you're going to lose 200, 300, $400,000 on this car, it's no longer a situation. Like you're spending real money in order to potentially be considered for some of these cars that now the pressure is on them to really pump out these crazy high line models, which they're doing a ton of. There's an SF90XX today. There's a Manuall A12C tomorrow. There's SP1, SP2, SP3, God knows what else. Like they have a lot of pressure to make these cars because they're trying to jam all the BS down all these people's throats.

• 38:24Speaker 03

  Well, the profitability is obviously not based on additional production.

• 38:28Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 38:29Speaker 03

  Or really MSRP increases, it is on options.

• 38:32Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  And so the fact that they are using different paint in the same sprayer and charging you $50,000 extra to name it after your newborn son.

• 38:41Doug DeMuro?

  Right.

• 38:42Speaker 03

  You know, that's why they are becoming so much more profitable. So, I mean, look, Ferrari is a commercial success amidst a lot of struggling auto manufacturers. And I think that they're going to keep pushing. I mean.

• 38:55Doug DeMuro?

  But Luche is just such an embarrassing product.

• 38:58Speaker 04

  Agreed.

• 38:59Speaker 03

  I agree, but they will sell them all. And what would have been even better, I mean, is if they had just said, y'all don't have to buy them. Let us prove to you that there is natural demand for this product.

• 39:11Doug DeMuro?

  There is not natural demand, not at 600.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Not at 640,000. You're right. But if they would sell for a market rate that is just three or four times what a Tesla costs, they would sell them all in five seconds.

• 39:21Doug DeMuro?

  I agree with that. If you sold it for 300, it's a Ferrari. You would sell to people all over LA.

• 39:27Speaker 04

  It would have to look better.

• 39:29Doug DeMuro?

  Maybe. People, I mean, I think it would sell to like people who buy Uruses and people who buy like four door, like high brand cars because they think they're cool.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 39:36Doug DeMuro?

  It would probably sell.

• 39:37Speaker 04

  But that's the problem. The Luche isn't cool. Like the design has nothing to do with Ferrari.

• 39:42Doug DeMuro?

  It's not cool to car enthusiasts, but driving around LA in a Ferrari and like taking your kids to school in it.

• 39:48Speaker 04

  But it's not recognizable as a Ferrari. That's the problem. I mean, you have to kind of go off the logo, which even that they didn't really.

• 39:53Doug DeMuro?

  But it's like a new hot car and that kills with like that set.

• 39:56Speaker 04

  Sure, sure. And I think to your earlier point, like I don't think that the 1,500 suckers that Ed was talking about care about the ability to get the rare vehicles to flip them and make a profit and get an ROI. They're not worried about making their money back. They just want to be like, they want to be validated for the first time in their life as important and VIP. Like they want the status. They don't want the money.

• 40:15Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not worried about the 1,500 suckers who aren't really suckers because they make a lot of money off this.

• 40:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:18Doug DeMuro?

  What I worry about and what Ferrari is going to have to start worrying about is all the people who are buying the stupid cars and not getting the special car in return. Because those people are simply losing money. When we were younger, you bought a Ferrari, you made money. Like you bought a 360 or a 430, it didn't matter, you made money. Now it's not a guarantee. You buy an SF90, you're going to get killed. You better like that car.

• 40:39Speaker 04

  But I don't, I don't think that these buyers care. Like they're not in it to make money. They don't view car flipping as their main source of income.

• 40:44Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but some of these people are losing so much that, and they're, and it's, and they're kind of being exposed as sort of unsophisticated. It's like, oh, I thought I made money on a Ferrari. Well, now I got an SF90 and I'm not going to sell it for less than sticker. Well.

• 40:55Speaker 04

  I think that's the bigger one because I think this is all ego and like. Showing your status.

• 41:00Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 41:01Speaker 04

  That matters. And when your ego gets bruised because you're just being laughed at because it's an ugly EV or an SF90 that is worth half what you paid for it, then you lose the status.

• 41:09Doug DeMuro?

  Isn't that SF90 market kind of interesting? Like, that's the first Ferrari that I remember like really dropping like a stone in value. I want one.

• 41:16Speaker 03

  But mostly because they went up so fast. So it was a bigger overage for a broader production car than we had seen as they, you know, were 800, 900, a million dollars. And then they became 400.

• 41:27Doug DeMuro?

  But now they're, I mean, 200 back at sticker pretty commonly with not many miles.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  Correct. And you've got some anxiety about long-term hybrid maintenance and obviously the things that we would expect. But you know, if you looked at-

• 41:36Doug DeMuro?

  That, by the way, is an interesting thing. Ferrari hasn't done enough to quell, I think. Considering that like they already are not doing a great job on LaFerrari. Ferrari hasn't done enough to commit to those cars to make people feel better about it, considering they're trying to put that technology in an enormous number of their vehicles. It's like, yo, guys.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  Well, they also were in the best position to eliminate it.

• 41:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  Because an FX6K is non-hybrid, right? I believe that's correct.

• 42:01Doug DeMuro?

  An SP3 is non-hybrid.

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Well, sure, but I think it would, there, there was existing development to make a LaFerrari non-hybrid.

• 42:10Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 42:10Speaker 03

  And if they had offered a, your car is now slower, lighter, and more reliable.

• 42:16Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  Option, I think they all would take it.

• 42:18Speaker 04

  That's where we need a rest on mod.

• 42:20Doug DeMuro?

  But that was the SP3. And that's why SP3 is selling for so much more. Ultimately, it's the same powertrain.

• 42:23Speaker 03

  It's also the prettiest car anybody's made in 25 years.

• 42:26Doug DeMuro?

  Hell, yeah, it is. I totally agree with that.

• 42:28Speaker 03

  It's so good.

• 42:29Doug DeMuro?

  That car is so cool. I wish I could have had one of those at sticker.

• 42:32Speaker 04

  The, the last thing on this, then we'll move to the next story. Don't you think that this fully allocated language reminds you a little bit of the Cybertruck? Where it's like, oh, initially, we had a lot of deposits. They were going for over sticker, but you know that's not going to last. Like, so sure, you are fully allocated, whatever on earth that means, right now. But that doesn't mean danger isn't right around the corner. And eventually, these cars, the market-

• 42:53Doug DeMuro?

  I just deeply believe that that language means they have decided, like, they have allocated the cars to the dealerships not to end users.

• 42:59Speaker 04

  Maybe we're all cynical.

• 43:00Speaker 03

  They're just in people's app and they haven't rejected them.

• 43:02Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 43:03Speaker 03

  Which you can do and you can say, I don't-

• 43:04Doug DeMuro?

  And people will. Or some won't, but not because they desire the car.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  But if you look at how much it costs to get good standing with Ferrari, 15 years ago, you probably lost a million dollars. 10 years ago, it was probably five. Five years ago, I think it was 10. It's, you, you must spend $20,000. Or 20, $20 million now if you want to get the next one.

• 43:27Doug DeMuro?

  Lot of money.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:28Speaker 04

  And that's why we're driving Lambos.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. Pretty much, yeah, used ones that we, yeah, I mean-

• 43:34Speaker 04

  Give me an Aventador and a badly matted Gherdo and I'm good.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, because it's, now it's F1 car and Corsa Cline is the only cheap.

• 43:42Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Okay. I want to move on to the truck car segment. We're not going to cover the Pope. We're not going to cover the, I'll cover the Pope for two seconds. The Pope exists. He's got a cool Ford Explorer Mercedes Benz.

• 43:52Speaker 04

  You can see them at the Vatican. So if you're going to the Vatican anyways, now you at least have something cool to look at automotive related.

• 43:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, the G-Wagon. The Velar is dead. I didn't know it was still alive, I'm being honest. I don't know how they screwed up the Velar and the Evoque. It's such an obvious market segment they should participate in.

• 44:07Speaker 04

  The Evoque is dead.

• 44:08Doug DeMuro?

  What are they thinking? They don't have a small SUV anymore.

• 44:11Speaker 04

  Doug, how are they taking-

• 44:13Speaker 03

  Convertible and all.

• 44:15Speaker 04

  This is the bigger news than the election. We lost the Evoque.

• 44:19Doug DeMuro?

  I think that is big news. It's a compact luxury SUV. That segment is like the hottest in the market. And it's Land Rover, who is known for making luxury SUVs. How did they let this product languish so badly that they ended up having to just straight cancel?

• 44:30Speaker 04

  The good news is we have a Stellantis collab coming soon that will save the brand.

• 44:33Doug DeMuro?

  It's been announced that Land Rover and Jeep are going to collab on a pickup truck.

• 44:37Speaker 04

  Hopefully it has a rear-facing second row seat.

• 44:40Doug DeMuro?

  It could have the cure for cancer. It ain't selling.

• 44:45Speaker 04

  There's a reason most people's cars don't look as good as they could. And it is an effort. It's at a proper wash, then a wax, then a protectant, is a whole Saturday. And nobody has a whole Saturday. Mothers California Gold Ceramic Wash and Wax folds all of that into one step. Hand wash or foam cannon, your call. It cleans, it brings up the gloss, and it leaves ceramic protection behind while you're doing the thing that you were going to do anyway. Work in the shade, go top-down so you're not dragging grit across your paint, and dry it with a clean microfiber. 10 minutes of actual work. If you're shooting photos for a Cars and Bids listing, do this first. A clean glossy car photographs like someone took care of it. And that is an important part of the auction listing. If you're not selling it, you get to wake up to a better-looking car every

• 45:30Speaker 04

  morning. Mothers, the official car care of Cars and Bids. Mothers.com.

• 45:36Doug DeMuro?

  All right. I want to move on to the truck car segment, because Ed's here and we got to talk about cars. Ed, for God's sake, you've got a lot to say here, it looks like. And I want, and we're going to cover it all. Let's start with the Veyron. Hit us up.

• 45:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:48Doug DeMuro?

  Hit us up.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  It's been great. I've had it for a little over two years now. I think I put about 16,000 miles on it.

• 45:55Doug DeMuro?

  Wow.

• 45:55Speaker 03

  I've had three oil changes and they've all been very manageable. I, I have it serviced at Broward when I'm down there and I had it serviced once at Miller.

• 46:05Doug DeMuro?

  Is there a dealership in Atlanta?

• 46:07Speaker 03

  No.

• 46:07Doug DeMuro?

  There's no Veyron service at all?

• 46:09Speaker 03

  No.

• 46:09Doug DeMuro?

  But Broward is a truck away, a shipment away.

• 46:12Speaker 03

  I just drive it down there, but-

• 46:13Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, yeah. That's a long drive. That's going to be 10 hours.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  It should be.

• 46:18Speaker 04

  But that's part of the Vey's. It's comfortable and you can drive it on the freeways and it's like a luxury car.

• 46:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, I drove, I've driven into Miami probably three times for different events. I drove it to Connecticut and back. I drove it home from Vegas. I didn't drive it out to Vegas because the, the CV boots were leaking and Houston's guys put them in because they had them remade. They wanted to sell the whole axles. And that was like 60,000, but Houston's were like seven. And so I think altogether, I've spent 40, low 40s on it in terms of, for all the maintenance and things like that. Now, that is not dropping it off for full annual service.

• 46:56Doug DeMuro?

  Right. Because the, here's what I'm reading. Okay, I said, the preface on this is, I'm not interested in a Veyron personally.

• 47:02Speaker 03

  He's extremely in.

• 47:03Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not interested in Veyron. However, I'm, I'm curious about the-

• 47:06Speaker 03

  Dip your toe in the water.

• 47:07Doug DeMuro?

  I just want to know what it's like. I want to know what it's like. So I sent him a text last week and I was like, hey, what's this really like? And I, every two months or so, I go down a Veyron rabbit hole and decide that it isn't for me. Because I start looking at service bills and I start looking, and I'm like, this isn't it. So I sent you a text because you're the only one out there using the car, I assume.

• 47:25Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 47:26Doug DeMuro?

  And, and I was just kind of curious. So, but my understanding is if you do an annual service, or it's, it's maybe every two years, but regardless, it's tremendously expensive. $40,000 to my, at the dealership.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  It's really 21 to 24 if you do oil, brake fluid, transmission accumulators, go through everything. It's, it gets to be 40-ish if you do plugs and coils. So my, I got plugs, coils, and some stuff done for 25 because they do misfire. And that's like what you'll-

• 47:57Doug DeMuro?

  Ultimately, it's a Volkswagen from that.

• 47:58Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah. So if you want to fight that, it's MAFs and EGC sensors and stuff like that. And so, yeah, I think I was about 25 in for those, which is a preposterous amount of money. But if you compare it to trying to maintain a P1, or try to maintain even a new GT3s are, the, the services are insane. So-

• 48:18Doug DeMuro?

  You did that at a dealership.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  I did. I have not tried to do independent maintenance yet.

• 48:22Doug DeMuro?

  Well, Houston's guys put on your CV boots.

• 48:24Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, but that was, I mean, they, they barely had the car.

• 48:27Doug DeMuro?

  So your dealer maintaining the car. You've only dealer maintained that.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  Only because I've been around them and it's been useful to have them really check it out because I'm driving it a lot and sometimes-

• 48:36Doug DeMuro?

  You're driving it a lot. What do they tell you when you come in? Like, does it need more stuff than you're, than you've done? Like a-

• 48:41Speaker 03

  It's got a little bit of an exhaust leak in a manifold, which they, you know, would probably try to fix. The, the only thing that has been, I'd say, a problem with it is that it heat soaks so bad that when I drive it a long way and then try to drive it slow, it gets crazy hot. They say it's not problematic, but it's like 230 Fahrenheit oil temperature. And so it's, it's real hot. And at that point, it'll start shutting the air conditioning off and throw in EGT.

• 49:11Doug DeMuro?

  The whole story with that car that has like 12 radiators?

• 49:13Speaker 03

  Right. But, but the oil cooler does not have a fan on it. And so I think I'm just going to put a fan on it.

• 49:19Speaker 04

  Or just change the weight of the oil a little bit.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Right. But you got to use this 10W60 to keep them happy. And so, yes, you could.

• 49:27Doug DeMuro?

  What about that? Because one of the, one of the stories, when I look up Veyron maintenance that keeps coming up repeatedly, repeatedly, is that the dealers, there's not a lot of like, there's no like hobbyist community. Like, the dealers aren't sitting there being like, we can try to take a stab at this. Like, you sometimes see from even Porsche shops, they'll be like, we can try to fix that for you. But like, it sounds like the Bugatti dealers are all like, this is cracked. We need to replace, you know, this whole thing, basically.

• 49:52Speaker 03

  That is the reputation. It has not been my experience. Maybe it's because I'm using the car so much. But like, I ran into an issue. I was doing a rally to Miami before we did Gumball, which was Miami to Mexico. And I, I was having an issue because this cop pulled me over to look at the car. And I parked on an exit ramp for probably 15 minutes. And when I went to start the car, every time I put it in first gear, it died. And it was because it wasn't sustaining enough throttle to get into gear. And so the whole Bugatti technical team was immediately on it and very helpful. And so we got it to Broward. They, you know, remote into the car and reprogrammed it and it drove very,

• 50:34Speaker 03

  very well after that. And so their willingness to like actually try to work around stuff has been great. And I don't think it's just because I have followers. I think it's-

• 50:44Speaker 04

  I think, I think it's because you pull in and they see the Linglong tires and they go, this guy's never going to approve it. We're just going to work with them. They size you up.

• 50:52Speaker 03

  You know, and somebody asked me the other day if, if the same Chinese manufacturer is making the Bugatti replacement wheels? Because they had been talking about making wheels for Veyrons for years. And they magically appeared a few months and about 10,000 miles after I put them on my car. And they're exactly the same size and they accommodate the same size.

• 51:15Speaker 04

  They're upsized?

• 51:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, they have to be.

• 51:16Doug DeMuro?

  They have to be.

• 51:16Speaker 04

  Well, you could downsize, but you'd have to do one or the other.

• 51:20Speaker 03

  You wouldn't clear the rotors, but the, so, yeah, because they're 500 and 540 millimeters, which are not even numbers of inches. And so that's why it's such a thing. But they've been great. I've had no issues with-

• 51:33Doug DeMuro?

  Bugatti's selling new wheels?

• 51:35Speaker 03

  And I, I have not seen a dealer quote, I think it's 15,000 for the wheels, which is nothing compared to everything. I mean, uh-

• 51:41Speaker 04

  Well, the tire change is 40 grand alone. So you've made it, it's already cheaper to get new wheels and tires.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  And tires. Because you can run Chiron tires. Now, you can't get Chiron spec Cup 2s through anybody but Bugatti. So I run 4Ss because-

• 51:55Doug DeMuro?

  What are the Bugatti Cup 2s cost?

• 51:57Speaker 03

  I think they're 10.

• 51:58Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. And that 2 is not that bad.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  Aventador tires are eight. So it's not, yeah, it's not crazy.

• 52:03Speaker 04

  But you're at 25 for a new wheel and tire setup versus 40 just to get the original packs.

• 52:07Speaker 03

  With no expectation that you have to change the wheels every four sets.

• 52:10Doug DeMuro?

  But the, the, the top speed thing is gone at that point.

• 52:14Speaker 03

  Correct. It-

• 52:17Speaker 03

  Mine still goes into top speed mode, but over 150 miles an hour, it goes into handling mode automatically. So it drops the suspension, puts the wing up. And I think that's, Matt Armstrong was running the same thing. Cause even though it says it, cause I now have the right, the real speed key, it's not, there's still one around little Uzi Vert's now apparently, but I have one that works. And it's just a Touareg airbag key with a fancy handle on it, but it's still $8,000. And so they, I think if the tire light is on, it won't stay in top speed mode. That's our best thought. But you still go.

• 52:56Doug DeMuro?

  And your tire light is on because you can't, you, you don't have the factory correct tires and wheels.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  Cause, no, because I don't have the sensors.

• 53:03Doug DeMuro?

  The sensors, sensors. Man.

• 53:04Speaker 03

  I, I will, but I couldn't get them programmed because I'm in Atlanta. So that's the, that has been the only dealer inconvenience.

• 53:11Speaker 04

  I got a backcom cable, bring it over.

• 53:13Doug DeMuro?

  What is the support level from Bugatti on the Veyron?

• 53:16Speaker 03

  Extremely good.

• 53:17Doug DeMuro?

  They're really, they're really still into it?

• 53:19Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely.

• 53:20Doug DeMuro?

  They don't call you, you don't call them and they say, ah, you know, it's, it's the old one. We don't want to talk to you anymore.

• 53:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, we thought last year at the Vegas concourse where they had 68 Bugattis out there and like 46 Veyrons were there, which is like half of the cars that ever made it to the U.S. They, we thought it was really the win doing it and they were participating, but everyone from Bugatti was there to support it and they were all super positive. And so they're loving it. They're going to do a full recommissioning thing where it's about a million dollars and they'll respec it to whatever you want, uh, which is amazing, right? That, that, cause that's the thing is like, you know, we, we remember them when they were 800 grand. We remember when they were one, two, and three, but it's, I haven't seen one sell for a while under 2 million.

• 54:05Doug DeMuro?

  I am curious where the market exactly is though, because a lot of cars have had a really high rise this year.

• 54:10Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 54:10Doug DeMuro?

  And not that many Veyrons have transacted since then. And the ones that have have been super low mile cars. I am curious where a story car might end up in today's world, like a, um, Stradman car, you know?

• 54:21Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 54:22Doug DeMuro?

  I, I, and I don't think there's a comp to know in today's market where that would be.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  There were two cars that sold for 1.3, 1.4 that needed a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of work and were weak specs. And most of them, they either got wrapped or painted.

• 54:36Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 54:37Speaker 03

  And they're the right candidates for that eventual program. And I think a lot of people are buying cars now saying, I'm going to tolerate this spec until I just feel like being without the car for a year and send it over to Molsheim. So I mean, I think it's real, but I, I have not had the experience. Now, of course, look, transmission could blow up tomorrow and I have to figure out how to get it rebuilt. Cause I'm not going to pay 200,000 for a gearbox. But even the guys that have had to, and Bugatti might not want me to say this, but like they, they help you out. If you like need a gearbox there, I've seen some invoices that are not $250,000 that are like, hey, we didn't want this thing to fail. And so we have some and it's less.

• 55:13Speaker 04

  Interesting. I, I think that's true. Like the SLR always was overblown. And I think they, they're opportunistic on their pricing. And it's like, yeah, we'll tell you it's this much. And if you're willing to pay that, then we'll charge you that much. But if you ask nicely, like we will figure out ways to give you discounts.

• 55:27Doug DeMuro?

  Well, especially they gotta be nice to their owners. These are people who might buy other ones. And also it is in Bugatti's vastly best interest.

• 55:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 55:34Doug DeMuro?

  That the car maintain its value well, because you saw with Veyron, the drop in value in part because there was this, this reputation of how difficult they were to own. And I, I've told the story, maybe last week on this pod or two weeks ago, that when I went on the Chiron launch, like the first thing they said to me after like, welcome was this car is a lot cheaper to own than, than, than what our reputation has been.

• 55:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:57Doug DeMuro?

  And, um, and I think they were sensitive to that. And the fact that they're supporting the car is interesting because it's good, good factory support helps the value, like, like Carrera GTs I think are, are going up and are valuable in part because of that factory support where you see some brands who kind of washed their hands of a supercar, the, the 17.4 GTs, and you're seeing people are a little bit scared, scared to get into those cars.

• 56:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think that's fair. And Chiron, but I have never met anyone who, other than our good friend Tyler Hoover, who sold his car because of the maintenance. Like, because most of the people that own these cars are considerably richer than us. And they have a lot of other cars that are also, I mean, nobody's gonna, nobody that's got a Valkyrie is going to worry about how much their Veyron cost of service, because these cars are known to be pretty insane.

• 56:44Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. But I guess that's my question is like, could I get away with it? Like I do not have that kind of money where I, you know what I mean?

• 56:50Speaker 03

  So my experience has not been anything too terribly scary. And that was my same question was like, is there some monster in the closet? I actually thought it was going to be even easier and that people were just gatekeeping these cheats. And that isn't it. I think they've just generally found.

• 57:05Doug DeMuro?

  You know, part of the reason that we think it's really expensive to own is because we've been around those Bentleys. Like when I think of mid 2000s Volkswagens.

• 57:12Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:12Doug DeMuro?

  There were a lot of bad ones. There were a lot of cars that were tremendously unreliable. The Touareg one was terrible, that same era. All those Bentleys have now.

• 57:20Speaker 04

  Phaeton.

• 57:21Doug DeMuro?

  I mean, the Phaetons, yeah. All those Bentleys are now.

• 57:24Speaker 03

  That's it. Mine's at the airport.

• 57:25Doug DeMuro?

  They're like $4,000 with like seven warning lights on.

• 57:29Speaker 03

  All the things. Yeah. There's the hole in a part Bentley.

• 57:31Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. What year is yours?

• 57:34Speaker 03

  It's a 14, but it's still rough. But it's, uh, but you still love them.

• 57:39Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 57:39Speaker 03

  I do.

• 57:40Doug DeMuro?

  But, but.

• 57:41Speaker 04

  I'd actually think a Vey is easier than some of those Bentleys because it is so many Audi VW parts. Like again, Matt Armstrong, our hero is fixing them in Miami now. So I think you could go to his.

• 57:51Speaker 03

  He, yeah, happy to help. And I talked to him and it's, it's all Volkswagen problems. He was on some Alp in Switzerland. He's like, Ed, it will not go into gear. And I said, oh, go, stand behind it and see if the brake lights are working. And he's like, nope.

• 58:06Speaker 04

  Brake switch.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  Brake switch. I was like, stomp on it as hard as you can. He's like, Ed, it worked. It worked.

• 58:10Speaker 04

  And same with those, uh, coil plugs and, and spark, so spark plugs and coil packs is, yeah, it's 10 grand from the dealer, but like he cross-referenced it and figured out a way to do a lot cheaper.

• 58:20Speaker 03

  That is one thing. The dealers won't let you supply parts.

• 58:24Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 58:24Speaker 03

  So, which I can generally understand, but, but the cross-referencing is bothersome. So I needed MAFS and their Bosch parts and they're 80 bucks. And they were like, nope, $1,600. I was like, no, they're not. And they was like, well, you can put them in, but you gotta take a million things apart. We're, we're staring at them.

• 58:42Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 58:42Speaker 03

  And I'm like, well, darn it. And so there were a couple of those that had happened. They still discounted them because they knew what was happening, but it was just like, they, they literally can't do it. And interestingly, like, you know, you say some of the cars that have sold haven't really had stories. Well, Broad Arrow sold a Grand Sport, one of the 14 U.S. cars that are like mine. And it is the, one of two Veyrons in history that has required an engine replacement. And so it had a new engine just installed and also had a little bit of paint work, but it was, you know, so it's, and it brought a record price, $3.3 million. And so, you know, I think that people are tolerating things happening, but the reason, that car was owned by Bugatti Broward when it needed

• 59:21Speaker 03

  a motor and they, they're not allowed to do it. So, you know, out here at O'Gara or up at Miller, you can have that done, but you, they are not permitted.

• 59:31Doug DeMuro?

  So like Miller put a motor in that car?

• 59:32Speaker 03

  For Broward. Yeah.

• 59:33Doug DeMuro?

  Wow. But it took them, how long?

• 59:35Speaker 03

  Uh, it's, I don't know. It took them a little, three months, probably.

• 59:38Doug DeMuro?

  Can you imagine what the cost?

• 59:39Speaker 03

  $850,000 crate motor.

• 59:41Speaker 04

  And the floor plan while you're sitting on it.

• 59:44Speaker 03

  And that's all there is and there ain't no more. That's, that's the last one. But they've only had two fail ever.

• 59:49Doug DeMuro?

  Um, by the way, Carrera GTs cost me about 20 grand in, in, in, uh, 6,000 miles in four years. I did a $46,000 service to it, but it was a lot of BS.

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  Elective stuff.

• 1:00:01Doug DeMuro?

  Elective. Like I put some new suspension.

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  But I'm still beating you on a per mile basis.

• 1:00:04Doug DeMuro?

  Well, you're driving it a lot.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  Hey.

• 1:00:06Doug DeMuro?

  And on road trips.

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  Yes. That's the secret.

• 1:00:08Speaker 04

  So impressive.

• 1:00:09Doug DeMuro?

  Carrera GT is not my road trip car of choice, but the Veyron could be.

• 1:00:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:13Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not doing it though.

• 1:00:14Speaker 04

  Please.

• 1:00:15Doug DeMuro?

  I am not doing it. Because I think if I was to spend 2 million bucks on another special car, which I wouldn't, and I can't, it would have a manual, three pedals. I just, I don't.

• 1:00:24Speaker 03

  You have a lot of manual cars.

• 1:00:26Doug DeMuro?

  I just don't think I can imagine getting into like a, an automatic, like you're in an automatic. Doesn't that, you're an automatic.

• 1:00:33Speaker 03

  See what I have to do with? With four turbochargers and 16 cylinders. I mean.

• 1:00:37Doug DeMuro?

  Here's my thing, and I've learned this about myself in general. It's about other stuff too, but the cars. I don't get that much time to drive my cars. I got three kids. They're all under six. Like it's real. Life's real right now, you know? And I barely drive the cars. Like once a week, if I'm lucky now. And it's not because of lack of want. Every single possible time I can drive a two-seat sports car, I do. Um, but it's rare.

• 1:01:00Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:01:01Doug DeMuro?

  When I do that, I want to be in a manual, a V10 crazy, or a V12 Countach, or maybe my Ford GT if I can, you know, leave it somewhere. But like, I don't want, I don't want to shift into drive. You know what I mean? Like I want to have an experience that day because I know that when I park that car in my garage, it's going to be a week before I get into a different sports car, you know?

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  Well, it is, there are other ways to have an experience. And I obviously, as you know, love manual cars. It's the only automatic car that I own in that type. And, but it is much more an experience than I even thought it would be.

• 1:01:39Doug DeMuro?

  I know.

• 1:01:40Speaker 03

  It's like, it's like driving a Lamborghini 20 years ago. Like the, the, the, the way everybody behaves is nuts.

• 1:01:48Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that for sure.

• 1:01:50Speaker 03

  So you, you feel it. Like when you, when you get.

• 1:01:52Doug DeMuro?

  But I, I get that from my Supra, you know? Um.

• 1:01:55Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 1:01:56Doug DeMuro?

  I get it. I understand. Uh, it's cool as hell.

• 1:01:58Speaker 03

  You're gonna get one.

• 1:01:59Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not. I'm not. It's ridiculous. Why don't, why don't you go down the road?

• 1:02:02Speaker 04

  Come on. You never do anything for us. I, I don't have the monies.

• 1:02:05Doug DeMuro?

  You could make it happen.

• 1:02:07Speaker 04

  I, I spend it all on a Gare.

• 1:02:09Speaker 03

  Neither do I, but I know a good bank.

• 1:02:10Doug DeMuro?

  That's the thing.

• 1:02:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:12Doug DeMuro?

  You could make this happen.

• 1:02:13Speaker 04

  We could finance it. Well, that's why the, the cost of ownership is such a concern is if we stretched and paid the maximum monthly payment, we got nothing left to do coil packs and spark plugs and so on.

• 1:02:23Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:02:25Speaker 04

  But I think like Ed, we can just defer it.

• 1:02:27Speaker 03

  Live your life.

• 1:02:28Doug DeMuro?

  It's too bad I can't find a nice car for like low ones anymore. I wouldn't do it then either.

• 1:02:32Speaker 03

  You would snatch it right up.

• 1:02:34Doug DeMuro?

  No, I really wouldn't. I just can't imagine getting an auto. I can't imagine like spending huge money and then have an auto. Like I, I, this, it's so rare. I want to go throw some gears. You know, I got this new Ford GT, this 06.

• 1:02:50Speaker 03

  But, but, by the way, how much did having a different color cost?

• 1:02:57Speaker 04

  Giving it back, baby.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  The dust has settled.

• 1:02:59Doug DeMuro?

  You don't understand. It was, it was, it was, it wasn't a cost.

• 1:03:03Speaker 04

  The answer needs to be a number.

• 1:03:04Doug DeMuro?

  It was the opposite of a cost.

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  Oh, you saved, it was cheaper than 540,000?

• 1:03:07Doug DeMuro?

  Mentally, it was, because I like it so much more that, that, that, that any financial cost was outweighed by the, by the, uh, human benefit. Do you understand what I'm saying?

• 1:03:20Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:03:20Doug DeMuro?

  You've done math like this before.

• 1:03:22Speaker 04

  I've done math like that before.

• 1:03:23Speaker 03

  This isn't a Nobel application. I mean, this is a car deal.

• 1:03:27Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, it was expensive. It was a couple, it was a couple hundred Gs.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  For the, for the paint.

• 1:03:32Doug DeMuro?

  However, a couple of things. Number one, I, um, never really liked the blue. And, and at some point it hit me, the old blue. The new blue I like.

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:03:41Doug DeMuro?

  At some point it hit me like, this is silly. Like, I'm eight years into this car.

• 1:03:44Speaker 04

  It's got a red on red Veyron, sitting there stewing.

• 1:03:47Doug DeMuro?

  I'm sitting here with this car that I don't like the color of. And when I bought it, I couldn't afford anything else. It was a high, it was the only high mountain I could find. But now I can, and it's like, this is silly. Like, why am I sitting here looking at this car that I love and I don't like the color? It's like ridiculous. Why not just make the right change? But also, I, the Ford GTs have gone crazy in value, and I think they still have ways to go. And I just, I think in 10 years, we're gonna look back on this ridiculous decision and say, huh, maybe it wasn't so stupid. Maybe it didn't seem as stupid.

• 1:04:17Speaker 03

  The chasm between blue and lighter blue is going to widen?

• 1:04:21Doug DeMuro?

  It already did. When I bought my car for probably 70 grand more in, eight years ago, I could have had a heritage. If I could have found one with the same miles, which didn't exist. And now it's, I mean, it's like completely different world. Especially, I got lucky with my dark blue. That turned out to be the most valuable color. But if I had bought a red or a white, the chasm would have even did.

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  Now it's the color that you hate.

• 1:04:46Doug DeMuro?

  People love it.

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:04:47Doug DeMuro?

  I just didn't.

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  That may be why.

• 1:04:49Doug DeMuro?

  You ever, uh, you ever think about a Ford GT?

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  They do nothing for me.

• 1:04:54Doug DeMuro?

  He's not an American car guy.

• 1:04:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, I like some American cars.

• 1:04:57Doug DeMuro?

  Ed is a Euro snob, and I have a holistic approach to cars. A holistic approach.

• 1:05:03Speaker 03

  Do you have a scar on your head from it hitting you on?

• 1:05:06Doug DeMuro?

  No, it's easy.

• 1:05:07Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, that rescue one you had.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. We've had a, we did, yeah, that one was like a barn find, moldy one. I didn't spend much time in that one.

• 1:05:15Doug DeMuro?

  I got 15,000 miles in these cars. I like, I'm pretty good at it.

• 1:05:17Speaker 03

  I guess so. I, I get it. But it's just, you know, there's no storage. They're not good road trip cars. They're...

• 1:05:22Doug DeMuro?

  They're reliable.

• 1:05:23Speaker 03

  They are reliable.

• 1:05:24Doug DeMuro?

  There is no car in the world that is more iconic and reliable. No car in the world that is those two things. Think about it. Hit me up. Hit me up. What you got?

• 1:05:33Speaker 03

  The one next to it.

• 1:05:35Doug DeMuro?

  The 993?

• 1:05:36Speaker 03

  Is much more, well, you can get all the parts still for a 993. You can't get a lot of Ford GTs.

• 1:05:41Doug DeMuro?

  Parts is a little bit of an issue for Ford GT, but it's not a huge issue. There's a big enthusiast community.

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  Right. It doesn't break. When it does, that's it.

• 1:05:48Doug DeMuro?

  But it doesn't break. It doesn't break.

• 1:05:50Speaker 03

  But until it does.

• 1:05:51Doug DeMuro?

  993.

• 1:05:56Doug DeMuro?

  That's mine. You know, that's mine. That was mine. I sold it.

• 1:05:58Speaker 03

  You sold it. Oh, this is like the graveyard.

• 1:06:03Speaker 04

  A bunch of cars so exciting, the new owners haven't picked them up yet.

• 1:06:05Speaker 03

  Right. They're real, they're going places.

• 1:06:08Doug DeMuro?

  I'm thrilled with the Supra 793. Okay, I want to talk about, the next thing you have on this list here, now that we've covered Veyron Carrera GT.

• 1:06:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Doug DeMuro?

  And decisions have been made. No interest in a Veyron from me. You, on the other hand.

• 1:06:19Speaker 04

  I'm interested. I just lack the funds.

• 1:06:23Doug DeMuro?

  See, he's an automatic guy. Like, at his core, he's an automatic guy.

• 1:06:28Speaker 04

  I, uh, I'm swapping the Gardo, and then I swapped the E55. So I think I appreciate both transmissions for what they have to, to offer. And I think the Vey is just, it's so iconic. It is my poster car. Like, I, I think that is, that or an S7 are my endgame. If I had unlimited funds, you know?

• 1:06:46Doug DeMuro?

  He's insane.

• 1:06:46Speaker 04

  You know how non-car people are always like, oh, what's your favorite car? If you could have one? And you're always like, that's a stupid question. I have 800 cars.

• 1:06:52Doug DeMuro?

  Right.

• 1:06:52Speaker 04

  And not all Megs would be in one basket. But if it was, it would either be a Selena 7 or a Veyron. Those are my two. You would be an F40.

• 1:06:59Doug DeMuro?

  No, no, no. I don't know that that's true. I think it'd be an F50.

• 1:07:02Speaker 04

  Okay, F50. Whatever. You would pick a Ferrari. You'd probably pick the Vey, right?

• 1:07:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, unless I can somehow have a McLaren F1.

• 1:07:10Doug DeMuro?

  What about a She?

• 1:07:12Speaker 03

  A Sheiron? I, I'm not with your shorthand here.

• 1:07:17Speaker 04

  We're too old for this.

• 1:07:18Speaker 03

  I, I know, I know y'all won yesterday, but I'm not there yet.

• 1:07:23Speaker 03

  Golly. Uh, I, I think that, I could enjoy one because it is a little bit more road trip worthy, right? Like, I mean, it's just newer. And so for driving 16,000 miles, a Sheiron is a better option. Uh, but I, I think you end up with something that isn't as naturally what you wanted it to be. Like, I love my Diablo SV, the VS car, and I love the other one. But a Mercy is what I think about when I think about V12 Lamborghini.

• 1:07:51Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:52Speaker 03

  And so I'm, I'm glad to have it. But if it was only one, it would be a Mercy because of that. And so the same, I think, would be true, is that...

• 1:07:59Doug DeMuro?

  And also, I think it's, the, the icon is the Veyron.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:08:03Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, this is how I think a lot about the Countach. The Countach values have not gone anywhere. They're not, but like, to me, the Countach was the car. Like, it was the original wedge. It was like, the, all the other cars were kind of iterative of the Countach. Even if they did it better. And the Diablo and the Mercy, etc., did do it better. But the Countach is like, the. And that's how I feel about the Vey. Like, the Sheiron is obviously better. Obviously. Like, it's more usable, more, etc. But the Veyron, that's the car. Like, that was the car.

• 1:08:29Speaker 03

  Created the whole segment.

• 1:08:30Doug DeMuro?

  We, like, when, when, you know, when we were in school, and you go into school, and they're like, did you know it can run out of fuel in 12 minutes with the, you know, like, all those, every kid knew that stuff, even the ones who weren't into cars. Like, the Veyron was the, when are they gonna put it on Top Gear? Like, that was the, we didn't have those conversations about the Sheiron. By the time the Sheiron came out, there was a Yron, and there was a Koenigsegg, and there was a 918, and all these other cars, you know?

• 1:08:50Speaker 04

  I also think that it's, the compromise is the point. That's why we like it. It's not for everyone. We didn't need to have Ferrari gatekeep the allocations. It was either you were man enough to handle this kind of car, or you weren't. Like, I would rather have an EB110 than a Sheiron, because the EB110, it requires some level of skill and wherewithal and like, means something versus owning a Sheiron just means I'm rich.

• 1:09:13Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. No, that's true. That's a good point, too. I, I never will understand the rich guy fascination with cars that are only special because you had the money to buy them. Like, to me, there is something special about, like, the Countach. Many popular YouTube collections have had to sell their Countaches because they couldn't handle them, honestly, if we're being real.

• 1:09:35Speaker 04

  Shots fired.

• 1:09:36Doug DeMuro?

  Well, I'm, I'm not wrong, right? Like, they, they, they sent them off to shops. The shops didn't fix them in a way that made it easy for them, like a modern car is. And so these guys just buy whatever $2 million car is new tomorrow. And I think there's something so special about, like, no, it requires effort. And the Veyron requires some effort, in a way the Sheiron doesn't.

• 1:09:55Speaker 03

  There's some problem solving involved. But it's also really important for us to acknowledge the fact that we need those people to buy these cars because they're new and cool and awesome, so that they will depreciate and we can buy them later.

• 1:10:06Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:07Speaker 04

  Also, in defense of Stradman, I, I think...

• 1:10:09Doug DeMuro?

  Was Strad who I was talking about? Strad did that. Yeah, he's one of them.

• 1:10:12Speaker 04

  But he, he drove the car from Florida to Utah, and after that drive, I would hate the car, too.

• 1:10:17Doug DeMuro?

  I wasn't necessarily, I wasn't thinking about Strad when I said that, because he also had other vintage Lambos.

• 1:10:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:21Doug DeMuro?

  He had a Spada. Like, he was into it. He was into Lambos.

• 1:10:23Speaker 04

  Strad's legit.

• 1:10:24Doug DeMuro?

  Um, but there's been a lot, the guy I bought mine from had a big collection of new supercars, but then he had, he had always had a Countach poster. And so we got one. But like, in a Countach, there's no cup holders. You turn the key and it doesn't fire. You gotta wait for the fuel. But like, and, and that, he couldn't handle it. He simply could not handle it. It wasn't like, he wasn't capable of it.

• 1:10:40Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:10:41Doug DeMuro?

  And there are...

• 1:10:42Speaker 04

  It's good. You better not be firing shots at my boy James.

• 1:10:45Doug DeMuro?

  Stradman's real. He's a real one.

• 1:10:46Speaker 03

  We love you, James. He called me right, yeah, he called me right after he was, had it bought it, because he didn't pick it up for a while, because it was a pretty long term wake-up project for curated. And he's like, Ed, I want to cannonball it. And I was like, I don't, I said, man, I don't think I can fit in the car or the Spandex, James, but I'm ready for it. I mean, let's do it.

• 1:11:05Doug DeMuro?

  You were gonna do it with him?

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, I called you. So we were, we were all gonna do, we were all gonna do a V12 Lambo cannonball at some point. We should.

• 1:11:12Doug DeMuro?

  Um, okay. The next thing on your list here is, is on this topic, the future of automotive content creation.

• 1:11:17Speaker 03

  There you go. Well, I just think it's interesting because, you know, we've now been in this for 10 years, 12 years for you?

• 1:11:24Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  On YouTube? And it has changed so much. I mean, I'll never forget you describing, you know, YouTube as a job to me early on. And the, the fact that you said, it's the most fragile way you'll ever have felt you made a dollar.

• 1:11:39Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:40Speaker 03

  And that was very, very true. And all of the swings and all the craziness. And, you know, back then, it wasn't really like a viable job. I, when I asked you early on, would you mind just mentioning, posting these cars you review to the VinWiki app? And you're like, I don't do any brand deals. I don't want to delegitimize myself to my audience. And I was like, did you just say that out loud? Like, who cares about your audience? He's like, no, I'm gonna make 10 grand on YouTube.

• 1:12:03Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:04Speaker 03

  And I'm like, it was a real Wolf of Wall Street moment. You show me a paste-up for 10 grand, I'll quit my job right now. And, but it was, it became, in that decade, it became a career path.

• 1:12:15Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:16Speaker 03

  And so the people that are making 15 shorts a day of original content today, or making different types of long-form stuff, these are people that grew up

• 1:12:27Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:27Speaker 03

  with the career dream in mind that they were going to be YouTube.

• 1:12:32Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I never thought about that. I guess that's true of like, the people, it always used to be like, oh, the kids want to be YouTubers. Well, now those kids are adults.

• 1:12:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, they, they actually need jobs. And so they approach it differently, because we were thinking about it, at least, as an alternative path to having real grown-up jobs. And so we needed a more reasonable income, not a starting salary to justify to our parents not getting a real job.

• 1:12:58Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  But there are so many new people in the space right now, that all they want to do is pay their bills. They don't need to pay Veyron loans and stuff like that. And so, man, I don't, I'm sure they still have the same dreams and they will get there. But at the same time, like, the competitive nature of the space is that for every one of us, there's a thousand of them starting every single day.

• 1:13:21Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:21Speaker 03

  And that's why we see, it's a lot easier for a video to do less views, or the, the world is changing really, really fast.

• 1:13:28Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:28Speaker 03

  And I don't know what, I was curious what your thoughts are on it.

• 1:13:31Doug DeMuro?

  How many shorts are you doing?

• 1:13:32Speaker 03

  I, we have gone through phases where we did a couple a day. I don't do them right now, because I don't see a huge, like, real benefit. You don't make any money from them. And so I kind of, my enthusiasm for them comes and goes.

• 1:13:46Doug DeMuro?

  When I, when we took the investment for Cars and Bids and cashed out a lot of money, I got a text from him. And it, it happened right when shorts was like blowing up. And I got a text from him who's like, congratulations on not having to deal with YouTube shorts.

• 1:14:02Doug DeMuro?

  And like, short-form content in general, which I actually do think is true.

• 1:14:05Speaker 04

  That's hilarious.

• 1:14:06Doug DeMuro?

  That's like the next phase of this. Um, all this short form stuff, I don't, we do a lot of it. We make a lot of,

• 1:14:13Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:14:13Doug DeMuro?

  We get a lot of views. You don't make a lot of money.

• 1:14:15Speaker 03

  Right. And I mean, yeah, I've done a hundred million view months on shorts, but they don't result in any other benefit other than I like more people say, hey, Ed, I saw your stuff this week.

• 1:14:25Doug DeMuro?

  We had a creator one time, I don't, I don't want to say his name, but we had a creator one time who was routinely getting a hundred million to a hundred and fifty million views on shorts every month. And I remember he told me that his grand dream was to buy a house.

• 1:14:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:14:40Doug DeMuro?

  And I'm like, you're getting more views than friends.

• 1:14:44Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:14:45Doug DeMuro?

  And you can't afford a house? He was making like six grand a month. And I'm like,

• 1:14:51Speaker 03

  Which as a first job is a wonderful income.

• 1:14:55Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. But like at that level, I feel like if you're reaching that number of people, like when,

• 1:14:58Speaker 04

  He's the 1% at that point.

• 1:15:00Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, he's the 1% and he's only, he's like making, you know, mid-level office kind of money, you know, like, and could be just making it, he could be just doing Xeroxing, you know, making life a lot easier for him. You know what I mean?

• 1:15:10Speaker 03

  Right. But if that was the job description and you had to work as hard, 20 hours a day, making automotive content,

• 1:15:18Doug DeMuro?

  Right.

• 1:15:18Speaker 03

  to make $6,000 a month and not have a real job, there would be a line around the block.

• 1:15:24Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:24Speaker 03

  And so I guess that's my point is that, and that's exciting about the space. And that's where we, we don't know how that's going to settle out.

• 1:15:31Doug DeMuro?

  You know, one of my big questions, especially now that I'm on, kind of on the other side of it is, why are we still popular?

• 1:15:38Doug DeMuro?

  Like, there's so many other people.

• 1:15:40Speaker 03

  I mean, you only have one shirt on. Yeah.

• 1:15:43Doug DeMuro?

  I know, I've downsized. Um, but like, you get my point.

• 1:15:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:15:46Doug DeMuro?

  Like, how come the other people haven't overtaken us? We're the dinosaurs. You wouldn't watch Babe Ruth still playing. If, if, if Reggie Jackson was there, right? Babe Ruth is like old. Like, like, let's,

• 1:16:00Speaker 03

  We are old.

• 1:16:00Doug DeMuro?

  Daryl Strawberry.

• 1:16:01Speaker 03

  Gray hair.

• 1:16:02Doug DeMuro?

  You get my point to an extent. Like, I don't actually entirely think that, but when you think about music, like U2 had its moment. They were huge. They were the biggest in the world. And then they faded because other people kind of replaced them.

• 1:16:13Speaker 03

  But they're always still playing and they always have some audience because there are the people who were, they were the biggest thing at that time. And so I think that's what we have is the audience that we built over the years still show up each day to see what's going on, see what the next Doug Carr is. And I think that's awesome. And if that's all, you know, if that's the, the residuals of this business or whatever it becomes, I think it's really, really cool. And I certainly count it as an unbelievable blessing to have had

• 1:16:40Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:16:40Speaker 03

  the arc that we have. And I'm glad it's not over yet. But, you know, it's, it's always sort of felt closer to the end than the beginning from an opportunity perspective, right?

• 1:16:48Doug DeMuro?

  You agree, always.

• 1:16:49Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:16:50Doug DeMuro?

  I think that, I think that's true from, from the very beginning. It felt closer to the end than beginning, even though, looking back on it, there was a time when it was closer to the beginning, but it didn't feel like that.

• 1:16:58Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:16:58Doug DeMuro?

  It felt like it was closer to the end, always.

• 1:17:00Speaker 03

  Like the ground was crumbling beneath us.

• 1:17:02Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:03Speaker 03

  Well, yeah. And that might've just been the error lights flashing.

• 1:17:06Doug DeMuro?

  Um, I, I don't know where it goes now. Uh, and I'm, and I'm very, I consider myself the most privileged of us all, that I do not have to care as much. I think a lot about how I will probably be the first of us to retire. Um, and, and that I wonder about some of them. They gonna be doing it forever?

• 1:17:27Speaker 03

  I mean, you can say his name.

• 1:17:28Doug DeMuro?

  No, it's not just, I don't even know who you're thinking of, because I think about a lot of these people, right? I think about it like, like 15 or 20 of these people, are they gonna be doing it forever? I watched Matt Armstrong, incredible content, incredibly successful. I watched him buy a big house, right?

• 1:17:41Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:17:41Doug DeMuro?

  And I think to myself,

• 1:17:43Speaker 03

  Boat.

• 1:17:43Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. And, and, and, and I watched Stradman do that. And I watched Streetspeed 717 buy, you know, build this big house in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania. And I think to myself, like, I see this. I've seen this before.

• 1:17:53Speaker 04

  That house is cool.

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  It is a cool house. It's a great place.

• 1:17:57Speaker 04

  I didn't, I haven't been watching him until recently. I'm like, this guy's my spirit.

• 1:18:00Doug DeMuro?

  You get my point though. Like, like, okay, now we gotta, now we gotta make more money. And now we gotta keep doing this. And like,

• 1:18:05Speaker 04

  I mean, it's true for any rich person in America, though. There's a hedonistic treadmill and we all keep spinning on it.

• 1:18:10Doug DeMuro?

  I think there are some of us.

• 1:18:11Speaker 04

  You make more money, you spend more money, and you, you keep up that cycle to the point where you can be that guy in the Hamptons that is so wildly out of debt that he like can no longer afford his lifestyle, making six million a year or whatever.

• 1:18:23Doug DeMuro?

  Right.

• 1:18:24Speaker 03

  Well, there's a lot of truth there. And look, when I really started to put my head down on VinWiki and, and we, I realized we needed to make content every single day. I was like, well, the only way that I'm going to stay this motivated is to have some stupid goal. That's why I said, I'm gonna buy a Bugatti.

• 1:18:40Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:40Speaker 03

  And I had no idea how one bought a seven-figure car at that point. And I, I'm so content with my stuff right now that I know it is counterproductive from a motivation perspective, right?

• 1:18:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:18:53Speaker 03

  And I think that's what's going to be interesting. I mean, I, I don't think if I say out loud enough that I'm gonna have a McLaren F1, that that makes it so. But, you know, it's, it also is not, I can't triangulate more shorts volume to get there, right? And so, I don't know. It's gonna be an interesting time.

• 1:19:10Doug DeMuro?

  What, uh, we don't get too personal on this channel, but you have children, I have children. What do you, your children are older than mine. I haven't had to have a conversation with them yet. What do you tell them about your job?

• 1:19:20Speaker 03

  Well, I obviously let them know because their friends now recognize, hey, does your dad have like a bunch of Lamborghinis? So I'm like, yes, but you tell them they're all broken and there's a lot of loans. And yeah, if, if they start asking if dad's rich, you say, my dad has a credit score that would make your dad's eyes water. And so, you know, it's,

• 1:19:40Doug DeMuro?

  What about the job? I mean, I'm especially interested in, because YouTube is such a thing that young kids want to do now.

• 1:19:45Speaker 03

  Sure. Yes.

• 1:19:45Doug DeMuro?

  You know, Nick's daughter's already got her own channel.

• 1:19:48Speaker 04

  Not true.

• 1:19:49Doug DeMuro?

  But she will, within the year. And, uh, and what do you, what do you say about that kind of stuff?

• 1:19:54Speaker 03

  Well, I, I tried to avoid it for as long as possible, but as they figured it out. And also I get invited to a lot more career days as a YouTuber than a used car sales. So I, I find that fascinating that it is, again, such an aspirational career path. The problem is that you have to keep it looking like a job. Because it, it's always gonna look fun. I mean, I'm headed down to the Freedom Factory to race with Cletus and Vanilla Ice at one of these Crown Vic races in a couple of weeks. And like, that's my job, right? And so I, I always wanted to be clear that like, yes, this is how the bills get paid. This is how the car payments get paid. This is how the whole thing works.

• 1:20:32Speaker 03

  But also I can put you on the bus for most mornings and, you know, see when you get home and stuff like that. I have a lot more flexibility than a lot of your friends' parents have. And so to, to help them to understand the give and take that every career involves.

• 1:20:45Doug DeMuro?

  Yes.

• 1:20:46Speaker 03

  Right now, that's the season we're in.

• 1:20:48Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

• 1:20:49Speaker 04

  It is fun. I mean, when I was a kid, everyone wanted to go to Hollywood and become the next famous actor or actress. Like, it's no different. It's just no longer on the big screen. It's on your,

• 1:20:57Doug DeMuro?

  It's weird for me because like you can read all the parenting books in the world. They don't have a chapter on this.

• 1:21:01Speaker 03

  They do not. No, you're gonna have to write it.

• 1:21:04Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:04Speaker 03

  My famous dad.

• 1:21:05Doug DeMuro?

  And also, I, you know, our life is, like, I keep the cars sequestered. Most people don't know I have them. You know, like, I, I don't know how it's gonna come out, but I'm nervous, you know? Uh, and I don't want to be, I just want to be like,

• 1:21:16Speaker 03

  They all know you have.

• 1:21:18Doug DeMuro?

  I just want to be like a, a dad, you know? I, I don't want to be like, like Ed Bolian, like famous Ed Bolian. You know what I mean?

• 1:21:25Speaker 04

  I think it's too late for you.

• 1:21:26Doug DeMuro?

  Go to the park and I'm like watching stuff. And then someone says, oh, you're Doug. And I'm like, I like have forgotten by that point that I am, I'm like at a soccer game.

• 1:21:32Speaker 03

  No, I'm dad right now.

• 1:21:33Doug DeMuro?

  Wait a minute, wait a second. Oh yeah, that's right. Uh, anyway, um, okay. What, um, how are things going down there in Atlanta?

• 1:21:44Speaker 03

  Oh, they're lovely.

• 1:21:45Doug DeMuro?

  You ever think about?

• 1:21:48Speaker 04

  Gosh, where's this gone?

• 1:21:49Doug DeMuro?

  You ever think about, you got the VinWiki.

• 1:21:53Speaker 03

  The VinWiki, I do. Yeah.

• 1:21:55Doug DeMuro?

  You ever think about starting more commercial businesses?

• 1:21:59Speaker 03

  Oh, well.

• 1:22:01Doug DeMuro?

  Like, I'm always telling Hoovy.

• 1:22:02Speaker 03

  I know you are. Yeah. And he started a used car lot, which he is somehow managing to still.

• 1:22:07Speaker 04

  Should we pull it up as our weekly segment?

• 1:22:09Doug DeMuro?

  I texted him a picture. I texted him a picture when I was driving back from Antucket. And I, of the road sign that said like Wichita, like I-35, whatever. He was like, you must be on your drive from Antucket with that private equity money. I'm like, dude, you could be, you, you started a used car lot. This was your choice. I have told you repeatedly.

• 1:22:26Speaker 04

  Oh, we got an Acadia.

• 1:22:27Doug DeMuro?

  Let me ask you a question.

• 1:22:28Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:22:29Speaker 04

  Oh, he's low on inventory.

• 1:22:31Doug DeMuro?

  You sit and see this. He's, he's, go back to the top.

• 1:22:34Speaker 04

  Avalon's nice.

• 1:22:34Doug DeMuro?

  He's trying to sell a hundred and seventy-four thousand mile base model Sienna for seventy-seven hundred bucks.

• 1:22:40Speaker 03

  Without holding a note, right? This is not a buy here, pay here operation, TNA Motors, right?

• 1:22:46Doug DeMuro?

  So like, this is, this is, I told him, I said, Hoovy, you gotta start like a business you can scale and sell. You gotta start like a,

• 1:22:53Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh, Doug, look at this hood.

• 1:22:56Doug DeMuro?

  This is Hoovy, he's doing this.

• 1:22:59Speaker 03

  Well, now admittedly, in, this is a content factory.

• 1:23:04Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 1:23:05Speaker 03

  And I don't know how familiar you are with the behind the scenes drama of the Hoopde Lot, but if they would just turn the cameras in that direction, it would be the greatest show since ever.

• 1:23:15Doug DeMuro?

  Nonetheless, now go back to it. Nonetheless, he is devoting real time and effort and resources to trying to sell a $6,400 SLT2 Acadia, okay?

• 1:23:28Speaker 03

  Well, and to his credit, he is not the one finding the customer and test driving this car and doing the paperwork. He has a team that are-

• 1:23:39Doug DeMuro?

  But like, then he's gotta pay, he's gotta make payroll of people selling, of people selling faded hood Siennas. Like, that's what he's doing. And I begged him. I said, "Hoovy, you gotta go out and start like a, like a real scalable business." Like, this is, and this is what he does.

• 1:23:56Speaker 03

  Yes, but I, I think it's, it's on brand and all the senses. And I think it's, you know, uh, I think it's gonna go well.

• 1:24:05Doug DeMuro?

  I agree about the content. We both think that the Hoopde Lot content is incredible.

• 1:24:08Speaker 03

  And it's doing well for him, so that's great. I mean, you know, we've had some offers to buy the VinWiki app. It's still really in its infancy because, you know, we've got 600,000 users that have the app, but we've, it's been so much a cart driving the horse situation with the YouTube channel that it's, you know, continues to need some improvement and things like that. So, I mean, that's an out of that fashion. You know, the other thing that's, I think, different than is, than the way certainly Freddie and Tyler have done things is that, you know, my content has really been about my own car buying journey. Now, that's only about 10% of the content that VinWiki is. It's mostly you guys showing up and telling stories and things like that. But I, I think that the fact that the collection

• 1:24:51Speaker 03

  has fortunately gone up in value, that is sort of the additional out that doesn't involve private equity options, but, you know, has been very positive from a net worth perspective. And so, you know, I think that, yes, you're wise to have done this, and I think that we should all think in that way. But, you know, I, I know you've had this as well. We get calls at least quarterly from, whether it's, uh, legacy media or private equity that wanna roll up automotive YouTube in whatever fashion. They wanna buy 20 different channels, put them all under one umbrella, and then improve them. And in most cases, you'd be taking bad business people and turning them into worse employees, right?

• 1:25:31Doug DeMuro?

  That's so true.

• 1:25:32Speaker 03

  And so, that is not a herd of cats that I wish to wrangle. But I, you know, I think that's also a thing that we don't know yet. Like, is there a business exit strategy for just the content model? Cause we've seen Donut and Hunnigan obviously struggle, and so it's, it's hard to know what that looks like.

• 1:25:50Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, for sure. It's hard to imagine that there's a great one considering how deeply tied it is. Your channel less so, but the other people's channels, like Stradman's channel relies on Stradman getting in front of the camera every day, you know? And it's hard to imagine that not working.

• 1:26:02Speaker 03

  Well, they'd have to bring scale, right? They have to add the pod. They have to add the short-

• 1:26:07Doug DeMuro?

  Which is why I begged them all to start businesses. All. I begged all of them.

• 1:26:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:26:13Doug DeMuro?

  It's hard when you're running a YouTube channel to start a business. It's, you're already doing an enormous amount of work. Um, who worries you the most? You know all these people.

• 1:26:21Speaker 03

  From a competition perspective or for their own well-being?

• 1:26:23Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, yeah, from a competition perspective.

• 1:26:25Speaker 03

  I know what you actually meant. Is that which ones are we gonna-

• 1:26:27Doug DeMuro?

  No, for their well-being is what I meant. But I'm curious from a competition perspective. I remember when, in 17, 18, like, I remember being obsessed with my competitors.

• 1:26:35Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:26:36Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, and like, looking at their numbers and my numbers every month. And like, how are we doing? How are they doing?

• 1:26:40Speaker 04

  Vehicle versions?

• 1:26:41Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Uh, Parker was the, was one of them. And, and-

• 1:26:44Speaker 03

  Saab Kyle.

• 1:26:45Doug DeMuro?

  And Saab Kyle by then had already kinda declined, but it, but, but Throttlehouse was like coming up. And I was like, those Canadians. Um, but yeah, who, who are you competing with?

• 1:26:55Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, I feel-

• 1:26:55Doug DeMuro?

  Who's in your segment?

• 1:26:56Speaker 03

  Well, I don't think anybody is doing, you know, one-off automotive stories the way that we are. Certainly people now do podcasts that feature a lot more stories that become clips.

• 1:27:05Doug DeMuro?

  Let's do one-off automotive stories.

• 1:27:07Speaker 03

  There you go. That's the secret. Yeah. Um, so, I don't worry about it. I love seeing the success that Matt's had. I loved watching, you know, the rise of Whistlin Diesel. I thought that was, because both of those represent such an optimism in the opportunity-

• 1:27:22Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:23Speaker 03

  That like, this only works if I get so many views that I haven't made a catastrophic financial mistake.

• 1:27:28Doug DeMuro?

  I love those guys the most in part because, like, I wish I could've done that, but I was never gonna. They put so much effort into it.

• 1:27:35Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:27:36Doug DeMuro?

  And I, they deserve the reward, and I'm so impressed with them for it. Um, and that's pretty cool. And it's cool that there is still that level of reward for that.

• 1:27:45Speaker 03

  Exactly, yes. And now, that being said, the, the ones that come up just wanting a $5,000 to $10,000 a month job won't have that vision. And they're not gonna take those swings. And so, it'll be interesting to see if there's kind of a dichotomy there of the people that just treat this as a job and they, they literally have, they don't do anything else, the way Schme did, right? I mean, no one in this industry has ever worked that hard, right?

• 1:28:12Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:12Speaker 03

  And, and still, and never will. But there are now people who are treating it as like, well, my time plus overtime plus nights and weekends is this thing, and that's all I wanna do because I care that much about it being an opportunity. And I, I'm excited to see both of those paths sort of continue to mature.

• 1:28:30Doug DeMuro?

  It's almost harder, like, in today's era for Matt and Whistlin, you know, there's a lot of competition, and to like, rise above all that. Like, when I, when I started, I felt like there was a lot of competition, but in retrospect, it was nothing compared to what there is now. And for a Whistlin to really get started in the last few years, or at least to like, really kind of explode in the last few years is like, very difficult to do at this point.

• 1:28:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, the first five years of us doing this, there were 20 competitors, right?

• 1:28:54Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:54Speaker 03

  And now, there are easily 2,000.

• 1:28:56Doug DeMuro?

  Including him.

• 1:28:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:28:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't know about that. It is interesting hearing your guys' perspective. Um, as someone who's only been in YouTube for like, six months, I was expecting the big Doug DeMuro money, and like, yeah, it is not a viable, like, it's not a viable career path. Like, to me, I do this now because it's a hobby and it's fun.

• 1:29:15Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:16Speaker 04

  And like, it offsets some of my automotive expenses, but I don't even think it's a break-even endeavor for me. And I have every advantage in the world. I have-

• 1:29:23Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:23Speaker 04

  Popular friends, I'm on a podcast, like, I have the easy code to starting YouTube channel, and I still think it's unviable and like, not-

• 1:29:30Doug DeMuro?

  But you also have two disadvantages, which are like, you have a family and a mortgage.

• 1:29:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:29:34Doug DeMuro?

  Like, you wonder if you were just a single dude trying to do it, how much more like, you could devote effort to it and how much, you know, if your expenses were so much less-

• 1:29:41Speaker 04

  But I also think, again, dabbling in it is the perfect amount. I wouldn't wanna be dependent on, I don't want that life.

• 1:29:46Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:46Speaker 04

  Like, I enjoy it just because it's a fun, creative outlet for me, but like, I look at how hard you guys work and all that you sacrifice. And now, in today's era, I think also the, the reward is no longer as big. Like, the juice is no longer worth the squeeze that I would recommend that as a way to make money.

• 1:30:01Doug DeMuro?

  Unless you really strike it.

• 1:30:02Speaker 04

  You, you have to really want it, and even then like-

• 1:30:05Doug DeMuro?

  It's almost like Major League Baseball or any of those things.

• 1:30:07Speaker 04

  You're, you're not gonna be in a position to trade in a blue 4GT for a different blue 4GT. Like, you're gonna be, hey, if I work really hard, I can get a Toyota Celica.

• 1:30:15Doug DeMuro?

  You know?

• 1:30:16Speaker 04

  You know? And maybe a nice one-bedroom apartment.

• 1:30:18Doug DeMuro?

  You like the heritage.

• 1:30:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. I, I do. Yeah, no, no, I do. I'm just saying that's, that, that, that type of reward is no longer really as viable as it once was. Not that it was easy in the first place, but-

• 1:30:30Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. No, I, I don't, I don't entirely disagree. It's just so, so, so hard. It always was, but jeez.

• 1:30:35Speaker 04

  I enjoy that top cars turn into like, Ice Coffee Hour with Nick, Doug, and Ed.

• 1:30:39Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 1:30:40Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, we wanna get to the questions. We're gonna skip the market report. There's nothing to report. The market's fine.

• 1:30:46Speaker 03

  Just a $20 million F50.

• 1:30:48Doug DeMuro?

  The market is all good. Everything's great. Uh, move on to the questions.

• 1:30:54Speaker 04

  Who's it brought to you by?

• 1:30:55Doug DeMuro?

  Now, I wanna say, next week we have Hoovy. We have the bangers on. I don't know why.

• 1:30:59Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 1:31:00Doug DeMuro?

  The, the absolute banger podcasts are happening right now. I have no idea why. Hoovy's probably selling some stuff because he's in trouble. But, but everybody, I don't know why Ed's here. He's got the collection, but I still don't really understand.

• 1:31:11Speaker 04

  He wants to hang with us.

• 1:31:12Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:31:13Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know why, uh, we had Dan, CEO Dan on, but he was great. Things are going great here at the podcast. Um, so next week's questions have to be for Hoovy. So, ask your question. I'm only gonna take Hoovy-focused questions. Do you understand? Are you gonna be on this pod?

• 1:31:30Speaker 04

  Yes, I will. And I'm excited for that. But before we, I'm gonna fill in for Filippo here and chill.

• 1:31:35Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:31:36Speaker 04

  There's the Cars and Bids Festival at the Peterson Museum on November 22nd. I will be there.

• 1:31:40Doug DeMuro?

  Really?

• 1:31:41Speaker 04

  So you can say hello to me.

• 1:31:42Doug DeMuro?

  Didn't he like, two hours ago, say that he might have a family commitment or something?

• 1:31:45Speaker 04

  No, no, no. I might bring my family with me. Then they're gonna do stuff in LA, separate from me.

• 1:31:49Doug DeMuro?

  What kinda stuff does your family do in LA?

• 1:31:50Speaker 04

  There's like, a bunch of cool children's museums, and then there's a lot of good restaurants. I mean, there's things to do.

• 1:31:55Doug DeMuro?

  The La Brea Tar Pits are right over there.

• 1:31:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's stuff.

• 1:31:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:58Speaker 04

  The Hollywood Walk of Fame.

• 1:31:59Doug DeMuro?

  The Cars and Bids Festival. Ryan Lopez will be there.

• 1:32:03Speaker 04

  It's from 9:00 to noon on Sunday, so it's kinda like, you go in there early, you get some cool cars. We may bring a Kia Sorento if it's back from the dealership getting its third screen.

• 1:32:11Doug DeMuro?

  He's got a lemon law situation going on.

• 1:32:13Speaker 04

  Oh, they know it too. I'm, I'm bringing it up every conversation. Like, oh, this'll be the third visit, just so you know. Like, they've escalated my case manager. It's like a whole thing, but-

• 1:32:23Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, that's great.

• 1:32:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:24Doug DeMuro?

  I'm, I'm, I'm proud of you. You ever think about normal cars?

• 1:32:28Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:32:29Doug DeMuro?

  Really? You think Honda Pilots, you think about Honda Pilots?

• 1:32:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I find them, you know, fascinating. People enjoy them like this. I see this happens.

• 1:32:36Doug DeMuro?

  When you're driving around-

• 1:32:37Speaker 04

  I'm not enjoying it for the record.

• 1:32:38Doug DeMuro?

  I asked this to Leno, and he was, he, he, uh, like, obfuscated. He like, wouldn't answer. But when you're driving around, do you know every car on the street?

• 1:32:46Speaker 03

  I don't know all the cars built in the last five years of their electric midsize crossover. Yeah, like four door coupes and stuff like that. I don't know all these things, but you know, I was talking to somebody because we were judging at Hilton Head Concorde this weekend and they were like, you know, I don't understand how people know everything about muscle cars or whatever. And I'm like, well, they know because they were earning a living off of them when they were new or they were dreaming. So I'm like, I know 2000 supercars like that, right? Because we know all those things. And so I, I don't now like recognize every single new car by its headlights anymore. Like I used to.

• 1:33:26Speaker 03

  But I, I do, you know, always find it fascinating, like why someone is buying an XM. Like electric thing, like, like what is the person?

• 1:33:37Doug DeMuro?

  But if like another dad in the, in the school shows up and he's got a um aviator, you're like, oh, he's got an aviator.

• 1:33:45Speaker 04

  It's a great choice.

• 1:33:45Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not saying it's bad, but you think about it. You're like, oh, but like, and that you see that and you're not just like car. Like Kenan, who's on this podcast sometimes, that's a car. Like he, he has like cool cars that he knows and then car. And he knows nothing about, we, we told him the other day, you should get a Ford Maverick. And he's like, what is that? And it's like, you know, there's a lot of press around that.

• 1:34:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, like this.

• 1:34:05Speaker 03

  So yeah, I always find it really, really fascinating. I mean, if I see somebody buy like a brand new Escalade, I'm like, look at this rich person. From my Bugatti, I'm like, man, look at the depreciation.

• 1:34:16Doug DeMuro?

  I agree. I think about that all the time. Do you, what is your wife driving? If you want to say?

• 1:34:20Speaker 03

  Right now she's in a GLS 580. We had a GL 63 that we sold on Cars and Bits.

• 1:34:24Doug DeMuro?

  I remember that.

• 1:34:24Speaker 03

  And loved that thing, but it had, it was like 140,000 miles. It was starting to get a little iffy. This GLS 580 is awful. I mean, it, it, we leased it, thank the Lord. I was told to because it just like, everything, everything breaks always.

• 1:34:41Doug DeMuro?

  It is.

• 1:34:41Speaker 03

  And like, it'll, it'll go back and that'll be fine. We did two electric car leases, which I liked infinitely more than I expected. Yeah, we did a RSQA, or no, the uh E-tron GT. And then I did a Q8 E-tron.

• 1:34:54Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, really? You did a Q8 E-tron?

• 1:34:56Speaker 03

  It was awful.

• 1:34:57Doug DeMuro?

  Damn.

• 1:34:57Speaker 03

  If it weren't free, but it was free.

• 1:34:59Doug DeMuro?

  But it was free.

• 1:35:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so.

• 1:35:02Doug DeMuro?

  Wow. So we're done with EVs. We're back on V8s.

• 1:35:04Speaker 03

  Well.

• 1:35:04Doug DeMuro?

  Just like America.

• 1:35:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:05Doug DeMuro?

  Although now.

• 1:35:06Speaker 03

  As of last night, they're coming back, baby. Cheap leases on the EVs.

• 1:35:10Doug DeMuro?

  It's gonna be a Hyundai Kona again.

• 1:35:12Speaker 03

  Yes. Um, so yeah, that'll happen again, I guess.

• 1:35:15Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. I gotta get to the questions. Those are my personal questions for Ed.

• 1:35:18Speaker 04

  Those are good. Yeah.

• 1:35:18Doug DeMuro?

  Real questions for Ed. Um, what are you daily, by the way?

• 1:35:23Speaker 03

  I try to drive everything sort of in a rotation, although my brown on brown 2014 Flying Spur has been the daily.

• 1:35:28Doug DeMuro?

  You take your kids to school and that?

• 1:35:30Speaker 03

  I take them in anything.

• 1:35:31Doug DeMuro?

  And that kind of stuff. But like, oh yeah, because your kids aren't in car seats anymore, so you can do that.

• 1:35:34Speaker 03

  Right. Well, we were very diligent.

• 1:35:36Doug DeMuro?

  It's a Flying Spur. It's a four door.

• 1:35:38Speaker 03

  Somebody sent me a picture. I was at the carpool line with my, she was in preschool and I was in the orange Diablo. She was, I don't know why it was dressed like an astronaut day, but she's dressed as an astronaut. She's riding through the carpool line, standing on the door sill with the door open. And I'm like, oh, this is normal childhoods happening. So yeah, so we, we drive them, whatever.

• 1:35:58Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, okay. Um, from a crying NSX to Ed, can you give us an update on the Chinese wheels you bought for the Veyron? How are they holding up? We've covered every Veyron topic except the Chinese wheels. They're, they're doing well?

• 1:36:08Speaker 03

  They're doing great. Yeah. I, I think we've probably sold another 30 sets of cheap Chinese wheels for.

• 1:36:13Doug DeMuro?

  Are you, are you like involved in this Chinese wheel company?

• 1:36:16Speaker 03

  So I thought about that because I knew immediately that it was an opportunity, but like, I was kind of willing to bet my own well being on them. But building a business around cheap Chinese wheels uh did not feel like the play. So I've been very content to just send them their business. It's a company called Forza and they're uh, they're making them.

• 1:36:35Speaker 04

  Smart. Steve Saleen tried to get involved in China and now he has a GoFundMe to keep the doors open. So.

• 1:36:40Doug DeMuro?

  Are you aware of this?

• 1:36:41Speaker 03

  I am.

• 1:36:43Speaker 03

  It's pretty unbelievable.

• 1:36:44Doug DeMuro?

  It's so bad. Um, okay. That's great. We got the Chinese wheels question answered. Here's a great question from Daniel Brown 1033. Goes back to what we were just talking about. Ed, you're given only $10,000 to buy a car. What's the move? Go back to your.

• 1:36:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:57Doug DeMuro?

  Go back to your days of Cars and Bits.

• 1:37:00Speaker 04

  Should I pull up TNA Ventures?

• 1:37:04Speaker 04

  Would you like a?

• 1:37:04Speaker 03

  Everyone knows the Acadian. That's it. No, I mean.

• 1:37:09Speaker 04

  Any of these can be purchased for 10 grand.

• 1:37:11Doug DeMuro?

  Go to Cars and Bits. Let's see whatever he says and see if we can get it for 10 grand.

• 1:37:14Speaker 03

  I mean, I'd buy a CL55 because I still have a CL55.

• 1:37:17Doug DeMuro?

  You get a CL55? Not an S?

• 1:37:20Speaker 04

  Those have gone up a little.

• 1:37:22Speaker 03

  I definitely would, would use the, I mean, any of the 55 AMG cars. I'd buy that. I mean, I think, I mean, it's a terrible decision, right? From a consumer advice perspective, but yes.

• 1:37:32Doug DeMuro?

  But for like you and me.

• 1:37:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:33Doug DeMuro?

  I just bought an E55 wagon. It's lovely.

• 1:37:35Speaker 03

  Excellent.

• 1:37:36Doug DeMuro?

  This is cool.

• 1:37:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. That's an early one. So it's uh.

• 1:37:39Doug DeMuro?

  Non-super.

• 1:37:40Speaker 03

  Naturally aspirated, but still.

• 1:37:42Speaker 04

  For your budget, you had to sacrifice.

• 1:37:43Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Supercharged ones seem to be a little.

• 1:37:45Speaker 03

  I mean, my S55 sold for like eight grand on there, I think. But and it, and then they tried to flip it onto the other site and brought less. So you're pleased to know.

• 1:37:55Doug DeMuro?

  That happens more than you'd think.

• 1:37:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:58Speaker 04

  This is gonna actually be for Cars and Friends, our podcast that airs on Mondays. It's gonna be us finding a new car for Ed.

• 1:38:04Doug DeMuro?

  Oh.

• 1:38:04Speaker 04

  So you can tune in for a whole episode on this.

• 1:38:07Doug DeMuro?

  There we go.

• 1:38:08Speaker 04

  Shameless plug number two.

• 1:38:09Doug DeMuro?

  Here's a great question relating to all three of us from Kenny Hughes 9782. A question for Ed. I'm gonna answer it first, but I am very curious about your take. Yours is gonna have a much more thorough take than me, but I'm gonna give you my answer. Question for Ed is the guy who brought the gated LP640 rarity to light and he's gonna have a completely different BS answer. What do you think the fact the market will look like in 10 years? And what if for the factory gated cars and as more cars are getting sick swapped, will that have a big impact? Let me tell you something I've learned. For a long time, over the last few years, 10 years, I was a swap guy. Yeah, these cars, we can just swap them. It's easy. 430s, swap them. All they go on. We've had swap cars in here. And you know what I've learned? The swaps are never as good.

• 1:38:51Doug DeMuro?

  The people who do the swaps are the sketchiest band of um, like questionably capable. Usually they're actually relatively mechanically capable. They just can't keep a, a business running and they all hate each other. Every other business does horribly and theirs is the one that is great. They all talk badly about each other. They all get their kits from here. You gotta figure all that stuff out. And over the last six months, I've started to come back to the idea of a factory gated car.

• 1:39:21Speaker 03

  OEM elitist we've got?

• 1:39:23Doug DeMuro?

  I hate to say it because the swap's a cool idea, but this is where I am with it. After all the stories I've heard from him about, oh, I could send it to this guy and he does these swaps, but he hates this guy and that guy's swaps are bad. And this guy doesn't do this when he's doing his swap. And it's just like, I don't want to deal with it and I don't want the question mark. What do you think?

• 1:39:43Speaker 03

  You want to go next?

• 1:39:44Speaker 04

  I'd like to hear. I, I've got thoughts, but.

• 1:39:46Speaker 03

  You're exactly right that they don't play nicely with each other. And the problem beyond that is that they're all trying to achieve something that looks as close to OEM that they don't actually differentiate themselves very well. So there's no evidence as to who swapped this car.

• 1:39:58Doug DeMuro?

  That's an interesting point.

• 1:39:59Speaker 03

  What they need to be doing is putting a very prolific badge plate in the door jams of these cars that says when they swapped it. The number, like Cameron does this now with the Mercedes to say like, this was swap number 104 that we've completed. Because you need to know, because here's what's gonna happen. Like you said, some of these people are doing a pretty decent job at it and some are not. And one of the ones that's not is going to end up meaningfully damaging the car. And it's gonna jam in gear, shred a gearbox, and it's gonna become a huge thing. And at that point, it stigmatizes all swapped cars. Some unduly, but that's gonna be a bigger thing. And so I know that that is a little bit of a monster in the closet for a lot of these guys.

• 1:40:43Speaker 03

  But I think there are, you know, probably in terms of emulating original functionality, it's probably anywhere from about 70 to 95 right now. I don't think any of them are like absolutely perfect and infallible, but some of them are a lot closer than others.

• 1:40:58Doug DeMuro?

  Agreed.

• 1:40:59Speaker 03

  Big picture, to answer his question, uh, there is no example in automotive history of a replica impacting the value of the real thing negatively. So whether you could swap a Hemi into your Cuda convertible, it did not make it the 15th Hemi Cuda convertible.

• 1:41:16Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, that's an interesting point. I mean, yeah, fair.

• 1:41:20Speaker 03

  It illustrates how desperately people want the real thing, that they're essentially willing to accept not the real thing. All these continuation cars, all of the backdated 911s to look like a 27RS, right? So I think anytime that happens, it is just to flatter the real thing. So it has never, I have never felt like I need to sell my real cars and buy a swapped car. You looked at, you know, Supercar Ron sold his.

• 1:41:50Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:50Speaker 03

  Brown real manual SV because it wasn't really US eligible and immediately swapped another car. And then he immediately sold that car and swapped another one and sold it. So it's not as though he's found like his forever car or kept either of them as long as he did his real manual 640 Roadster or his real manual SV. And that real manual SV just sold for over eight?

• 1:42:13Doug DeMuro?

  Well, that's a very, very special situation, but I agree with, I agree with your general point.

• 1:42:17Speaker 03

  More than he paid.

• 1:42:19Doug DeMuro?

  Do you not think though, when you sit and think about this, do you not think that F430s with a manual, if they didn't have the ability to swap, would be worth more?

• 1:42:32Speaker 03

  Well, it's hard to say because they, there was always a big gap, right? And it has widened. And 430s have benefited maybe most in this recent season of cars that are not that rare, going up in value a lot. And, you know, I, the, the thing about these cars is they don't actually drive all that well. Driving a manual 430 is awesome if you were driving above eight tenths. If you're trying to just drive around, the lighter weight internals, the lightweight flywheel, it loses revs so fast that it's, it's a little tough to drive in normal, take the kids to school. So, and the swap cars are even a little worse because they don't warm up as fast. It's just, there's other pathologies, right?

• 1:43:16Speaker 03

  And so, you know, I think, I, I always felt like Mercys were privileged from the Ferraris because there was nobody swapping them until, call it, nine, eight, 24 months ago. Um, and that has not proven to be the case at all. They have gone up in value meaningfully more. So even though-

• 1:43:34Doug DeMuro?

  Mercys certainly have. The reason I bring up the 430 specifically though, is there are so many automatics that are either swap candidates or, or already swapped. And there are so few manuals that I do wonder if you couldn't, like, anybody today could just go buy a 430 for 150, 160 and say, let's swap it and be done.

• 1:43:50Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:43:51Doug DeMuro?

  If it wasn't possible, I do wonder if ma, if true manual 430s would be twice as expensive as they are.

• 1:43:57Speaker 03

  Perfectly sound logic, but there's no evidence of it.

• 1:43:59Doug DeMuro?

  There's no evidence of it, but you know, that's one of those, we can't know what, you know, what didn't happen kind of thing. But you get my point though.

• 1:44:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, but we saw it with Mercys for a very, very long time, right? And so the gap was a million dollars for a, between a manual car, for a 640, for, between E-Gear and manual. And now it's $2 million, um, which on a percentage basis, I mean, look, I'm, I'm about to sell the nicest manual 640 Roadster on earth for a lot, like a, an insane amount of money relative to what it would have brought just a short time ago.

• 1:44:34Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:35Speaker 03

  And so it does, it doesn't seem to be interfering with it at all. And I, I actually think it's better. I think it's helping.

• 1:44:41Doug DeMuro?

  I certainly agree with that. I certainly agree with that. It doesn't seem like it's really interfering with the real ones.

• 1:44:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:47Doug DeMuro?

  I, I will say, I think the swapability seems to have increased the value of the not real ones.

• 1:44:53Speaker 03

  Yep, tons.

• 1:44:54Doug DeMuro?

  Like 575s, they're all now more valuable because people know that they can.

• 1:44:59Speaker 03

  And see, everybody asked me, when I had the Scud, everybody asked me this constantly, are you going to swap it? And it's a lovely car as an F1. It fits the character of the car. Now, if I lost a shift actuator, I would immediately swap the car.

• 1:45:12Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:12Speaker 03

  So I treated it as a parachute rather than like an appeal. Like I didn't buy it thinking that, but that I was going to do it. I bought it thinking I could do it as a way to mitigate the cost of something else.

• 1:45:24Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 1:45:25Speaker 04

  And I'm, I just bought a car literally so I could swap it immediately. So perhaps the counterpoint, I, I agree with what you said though. I think the OE cars are collector cars. It is a different type of buyer. It is a different market. It is not, their value is not just simply their driving experience. It is the provenance, the originality, all of that. So I, I don't think that those are affected. I think the bottom of the market, the E-Gear F1 cars have seen a rise. Like, uh, you used to be able to get a Mercy all day, every day for 200K. Now double that, if not more, for even a rough example. So like, I think that people knew it was possible, meant that the bottom of the market became a lot more appealing. Um, and so I think it, it helped the car in general. Um, and I totally agree.

• 1:46:10Speaker 04

  I think swaps are 80% of the driving experience, definitely not 100. And if you got a guy who does it really well, maybe they're closer to 90%. And if you are just trying to get the cheapest one possible, it's probably 50 to 70%. There's a liability there. Um, I, I think there's a lot of, like, I am willing to put up with a lot of headaches. Like getting it swapped is shipping it to a guy, sending them a lot of money, hoping everything goes to well, like it's a huge leap of faith. It's truly terrifying.

• 1:46:37Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 1:46:37Speaker 04

  And you just like, really got to trust it. It's usually like a one to five person operation, you know, that is multiple states over from you. And you just got to hope that like, the deposit that I sent them, which is usually at least half, that I'm going to get my car back in a timely manner, that it's going to run well.

• 1:46:52Doug DeMuro?

  If one of these places was a, was a good business, we might be having it in the conversation.

• 1:46:57Speaker 04

  But no reasonable human is going to, a, a really rich guy is going to say, I don't want to deal with that.

• 1:47:03Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:03Speaker 04

  And I'm willing to pay a lot more to not have to deal with that.

• 1:47:06Doug DeMuro?

  And know that when you sell, you'll get it back. Like, that's the thing. It's not just-

• 1:47:08Speaker 04

  My Mercy was an interesting one. When I got it, like I, I was under the idea of all swaps are equal and like, you just go with the cheapest one. Um, the next owner had some issues. And it turns out that the people that did it used a remanufactured part that failed almost immediately and then burned through the clutch.

• 1:47:28Doug DeMuro?

  Do you-

• 1:47:28Speaker 04

  And he had to have it all redone. So there are these-

• 1:47:30Doug DeMuro?

  Did you learn some lessons about this for your next swap car?

• 1:47:32Speaker 04

  Um, yes and no. I mean, I'm also willing to take on them. I, at the end of the day, I can't afford a real one. And I'm also okay if I have, if something breaks with any of my cars, I buy cars knowing that things are going to break. I'm buying mile up examples.

• 1:47:46Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 1:47:47Speaker 04

  And that's the brakes. But if a rich guy go fast buys one of those cars and thinks it's going to be the same ownership experience, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. Now I, with the Mercy, like I, I tried to help out in a couple of different ways when there were some issues. And then the guy that swapped it was like, oh, Nick cut all these corners and like started bad mouthing me. Like it got kind of ugly. And like in hindsight, I would have used a different shop.

• 1:48:09Doug DeMuro?

  This is the swap world.

• 1:48:10Speaker 04

  But yeah.

• 1:48:11Doug DeMuro?

  Like when, when, whenever I hear about swaps, like I think about this stuff.

• 1:48:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:48:14Doug DeMuro?

  The, the guy is bad mouthing me on the Mercy WhatsApp chat, like, or-

• 1:48:20Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:48:20Doug DeMuro?

  Or-

• 1:48:21Speaker 03

  They're an emotional bunch.

• 1:48:22Doug DeMuro?

  You just buy a damn manual OE. I know, I know it's a lot more expensive. And the Mercys, it's a different conversation because it's so much more expensive. But like, you buy, you buy a damn manual OE 430 and spend another 100 and you don't have to deal with any of this.

• 1:48:38Speaker 04

  You've got to, so Ed and I, I think are cut from the same cloth where we'd buy a Hoopdy Bentley and be okay with those consequences. And I think that is always why an OE stick will be worth more is it's for the type of buyer that don't want to deal with that. And then the sticks are for, in my opinion, the real enthusiasts.

• 1:48:53Doug DeMuro?

  Or the wealthy enthusiasts.

• 1:48:54Speaker 04

  The, well, no, because people stick swap E46s and E55s and all sorts of other cars. Like-

• 1:49:00Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, you mean the stick swaps are for the real enthusiasts?

• 1:49:02Speaker 04

  Yes, yes. It is for the people that are stretching to get the coolest car they can for a limited budget. And they're saying, you know what? If things break, that's fine. When they break, I will put in a new clutch. I will deal with the-

• 1:49:13Doug DeMuro?

  Although to his point, once the, the guy who swapped it, the ownership chain starts to change.

• 1:49:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:19Doug DeMuro?

  You're three owners down from a guy who cut corners and no one knows what's going

• 1:49:22Speaker 04

  Which was the problem with my Mercy is had it broken for me, I could have gotten it fixed and I would have been totally fine with that. When it goes to the new buyer and they start having issues, that's a terrible situation all around.

• 1:49:31Doug DeMuro?

  And that's, that's why we, that's why we OE manual.

• 1:49:35Speaker 03

  Well, we just bought them early.

• 1:49:37Doug DeMuro?

  We just bought them early.

• 1:49:39Speaker 04

  You buy them early. That's the real move.

• 1:49:40Doug DeMuro?

  Folks, if that's, if you're listening at home, buy early.

• 1:49:43Speaker 04

  And for the record, I have no regrets on any of the swaps I've done. And I'm super excited to get the Geyser done. I also think there is a big difference between swaps you can do using mostly OE parts and ones where they're having to manufacture a lot of stuff themselves. The more stuff that they have to recreate in-house, the sketchier it gets real fast.

• 1:49:59Speaker 03

  Well, Underground's been swapping 5.0 Geyser's for-

• 1:50:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, the Geyser, you can kind of get the parts, much like an R8. Like it's, you can do it almost entirely factory versus some of these cars, you got to like know a guy with a CNC mill and hope that they make them in the right tolerances. And it's, there's a lot of things that have to work together that could fail.

• 1:50:16Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, next question from Bet Bet. Given how many Mercy Lagos, Diablo's and Geyser's Ed has owned over the years, would he ever consider adding a Countach or an Aventador to the mix, particularly with where prices are at now? I think Countach prices are unusually low for what the car offers. Um, you ever thought about one?

• 1:50:31Speaker 03

  I think about them often. I, uh, there was a rumor of another one of the Monaco Pace cars coming up and, because there were three or four.

• 1:50:41Doug DeMuro?

  I didn't know that. I thought there was only the one.

• 1:50:42Speaker 03

  No, there were, the, of the year, of the one that gets out a lot, that was the only one, but there were two or three of the other year that they had them. And I just, one of them was a-

• 1:50:52Doug DeMuro?

  Manhandling this thing around Monaco, trying to say Formula One racing.

• 1:50:56Speaker 03

  But if I, if I could have a Countach with police lights on it, I remember when John got the other one, I was like, I, that was the first time I was really tempted to buy a Countach. Um, but I, I don't fit. I mean, I know you make yourself fit and I could, I could fit better than, you know, an F40. But I, to me, like I said about the Diablo, the Mercy is the car. The Diablo is a lot like it. And if I have room in the garage for an extra one, absolutely love it. Um, the Countach is another step removed from the purest version of me wanting a V12 Lamborghini. And the reason that Countach's haven't gone up as much lately is almost everyone who grew

• 1:51:38Speaker 03

  up dreaming about them as the quintessential coolest thing in the world, has made the decision, right? There's less people suddenly having the ability to buy a Countach.

• 1:51:48Doug DeMuro?

  I generally agree with that. I have been surprised that mirror values have gone as high as they have and Countach values have not followed at least a little. Like I think my Countach is straight up flat from when I bought it three years ago. I consider it the best purchase I made because it is the most emotionally rewarding and I don't really care about the finances. But I, it's easy to be able to say that when the other cars have all gone up so much.

• 1:52:07Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:52:08Doug DeMuro?

  Um, but I have been surprised, like there are people now making the choice to get, the Diablo 6.0s are selling for a million bucks. And I'm sitting here like, the Countach is, is cooler. It's like, it's like the tribute shoe selling for more than the real, like I, I, it surprises me. I'm surprised by it. I think the reputation of, of, uh, difficult ownership is a huge factor.

• 1:52:28Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:52:28Doug DeMuro?

  Which I think is unfortunate because I don't actually think it's, having now had mine for 4,000 miles in three years, I don't actually think it's that difficult to own. If you're, if you know what you're doing.

• 1:52:37Speaker 03

  And if, if you start with a running car and you keep it running, right? If you let your car sit for six months and don't touch it, it's gonna hate you again. And so, the other thing that I think is tough is people don't know which Countach to buy.

• 1:52:49Doug DeMuro?

  Yes, it is, there are 12 different variants of them. It requires some, some real sophistication to understand the differences and why some are more desirable than others. And I think that that makes it hard, especially because some of them are, the variances are small.

• 1:53:04Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:53:05Doug DeMuro?

  There are people who just think that a fuel injected car is better.

• 1:53:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:53:08Doug DeMuro?

  And it's like.

• 1:53:09Speaker 03

  Or that an anniversary car is better.

• 1:53:10Doug DeMuro?

  It's the anniversary, it was the last one, why wouldn't it be better?

• 1:53:12Speaker 03

  And then they get told they're wrong and they just, nope, I'm out, I'm out of Countach.

• 1:53:17Doug DeMuro?

  What about Aventadors?

• 1:53:18Speaker 03

  I love Aventadors.

• 1:53:19Doug DeMuro?

  Early Aventadors are shockingly cheap for what they offer. He considered one when he got his Gioro.

• 1:53:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like them a lot. I love selling them new. I have tons of great memories in them. I, I've always felt like the Mercy was more me and it, it now feels more like the enthusiast car to own and it gives me things differently than a, an Aventador might. I, I have made 100 offers on Aventadors that were all too low, but if somebody had taken one, I'd have been happy to have one. I would just want an Orange S Rhodes.

• 1:53:49Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:50Speaker 03

  To me, that's kind of the car. The Ultima is great, I don't need an SVJ.

• 1:53:54Doug DeMuro?

  The SVJs are just crazy money when you consider what the early ones, it's like an unbelievable spread, considering that the wow factor is about the same.

• 1:54:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. But you have to realize that with certain cars like SVs and SVJs, they have gone up so much over the last six or 12 months, but the reason for that is that as there's one pretty good transaction, there also happened to be 40 of them for sale.

• 1:54:18Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:19Speaker 03

  There's no Mercys for sale, anywhere. There's very few, you know, Superleggeros for sale, so they don't go up as fast as cars that are currently in the market where it was like, oh, I'm gonna reprice it because I just saw this, you know, one example. And so they're just more responsive in that way. But no, I'd, I'd love an Aventador, I could enjoy that for different reasons than I grew up loving a Mercy, right? So, it's just a different game.

• 1:54:42Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:43Speaker 03

  But yeah, love them.

• 1:54:44Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, manual swap Aventador, think that's gonna be a thing?

• 1:54:46Speaker 03

  Supposedly, but.

• 1:54:48Doug DeMuro?

  It could be, right?

• 1:54:49Speaker 04

  Houston's working on one, Royalty Exotics, yeah.

• 1:54:51Doug DeMuro?

  Um.

• 1:54:52Speaker 04

  Which I'm so waiting for. That'll be my next swap if I.

• 1:54:55Speaker 03

  It's a bigger swap.

• 1:54:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:54:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, cuz I mean, there's gotta be interior components and stuff, right?

• 1:55:00Speaker 03

  It's a whole new, different gearbox.

• 1:55:01Speaker 04

  That might be slightly lower than 80% of.

• 1:55:03Speaker 03

  There's only two ways to do it. One is the Manoale or a, you actually have to get a new gearbox that's a normal, cuz the ISR gearbox was independent shift rods, so there's a different shifter for each.

• 1:55:16Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, really?

• 1:55:17Speaker 03

  So rather than switching clutches, like a double clutch, you're shift, you're switching shifters.

• 1:55:22Doug DeMuro?

  What about putting an LS in it?

• 1:55:23Speaker 03

  Just do that, yeah.

• 1:55:24Speaker 04

  That'd definitely be easier.

• 1:55:26Doug DeMuro?

  All right, two more. We're running deep on time here, but everybody loves Ed Bolian.

• 1:55:29Speaker 03

  I don't know about that, we'll, we'll have learned very soon.

• 1:55:31Speaker 04

  We're going deep on supercars too, I feel like we need a couple more normal cars.

• 1:55:34Doug DeMuro?

  He's never owned a Toyota. He's never even seen a Honda. The only time he ever went into a Honda dealership was to ask him about the Pax tires when he got his Vey.

• 1:55:43Speaker 03

  That's true. I did try to buy a Pax machine.

• 1:55:45Doug DeMuro?

  And they said, we're only working on Odysseys here, sir. You got an Odyssey Touring? No, get out of here. Uh, Cooking With Myself asks, for Ed and the rest of the crew, that includes you, you've all get to drive some of the most insane and special performance cars that exist. What are you most afraid of slash what car taught you your limits?

• 1:56:02Speaker 03

  That's a great question. I, I would say that the limits are almost on like what I'm willing to tolerate.

• 1:56:09Doug DeMuro?

  Is there a car that, you know, the limits were closer to, you know what I mean?

• 1:56:14Speaker 03

  From a driving perspective that I, yeah, that you spun around and you're like, huh, that was not as good of an idea. Um, I have not scared myself in a car in a while, uh, but I would say the, you know, generally it's going to be American rear wheel drive cars, you know, like the, I remember driving a, on a road trip in a Ford GT at one point and I just, you know, lit up the rear tires and it's willingness to continue going straight was a lot less than most would be.

• 1:56:47Doug DeMuro?

  Those cars can get sketch fast.

• 1:56:48Speaker 03

  And I mean, you can catch it, but you're like, wow, this car just decided to go the wrong way really abruptly. So, I, I, that's why I would say lately, more often, I'm just like, man, I don't know if I'm really cut out for this car and this amount of suffering in the way that I felt I should have been. Uh, the TVR was that way, which is stupid that I just bought another one, but I'll find out if having one that's more stock. Um, but I, uh, I don't know. That's a, that's a good question, I don't have a great answer for it. How about you?

• 1:57:18Doug DeMuro?

  I, I don't drive like that anymore. There was a time.

• 1:57:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:23Doug DeMuro?

  But like, there's no car that I'm really driving on that level anymore where, you know, there's even a possibility of that happening. And I think two of the cars that people say are the sketchiest I own, and I've never even come close to had anything happen, once in the Ford GT a little, but like, I'm just, cuz I'm just cautious now. And I, it's sad, like I wish I wasn't, but like I got kids and I'm like, I'm not doing this stuff anymore, you know?

• 1:57:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:45Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not like, I'm not like jamming the throttle down in a Viper to see what happens like I would have when I was 23, cuz you know what happens.

• 1:57:51Speaker 03

  Right, yeah, we've been there, we have, we have done it plenty and so it's, yeah.

• 1:57:56Doug DeMuro?

  So I don't think, I, I, when I drive a car, you know what, you know what cars do scare me a little actually, when I'm, when I'm driving them, is, um, really powerful EV trucks and SUVs. I'm in a R2 right now, but I was thinking about, we had an R1S, like whatever they call it.

• 1:58:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:12Doug DeMuro?

  The 1,000 horsepower one. You floor that thing's 8,200 pounds with all terrain tires.

• 1:58:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:58:17Doug DeMuro?

  That's, those cars get a little sketch.

• 1:58:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:20Doug DeMuro?

  And, uh, the Hummer EV and all those, like, those cars are a little sketch, particularly the trucks and SUVs. Your center of gravity's high and it's like, what is happening here? You, you, you're not ready to control those. There was no video game I played as a kid that I learned the physics of that car. And now, anybody can have one.

• 1:58:37Speaker 03

  That's it, yeah.

• 1:58:39Speaker 04

  For me, I, if it's not my car, I drive it incredibly cautious. So to me, the most dangerous cars are the ones that I owned for a while and I, I'm comfortable with and I've let my guard down. So the Mercy, when I first got it, I was super cautious and like Civics were tailgating me, being like, why won't this grandpa move out of the way? Towards the end, I spun it at the track.

• 1:58:56Doug DeMuro?

  Do you know he spun it at the track and almost hit a wall?

• 1:58:58Speaker 04

  Because I was just so comfortable with it that I.

• 1:59:00Doug DeMuro?

  On the last corner, he did a watch this, cuz like I had beaten his lap time and he went out there like last lap of the day, like I'm gonna win it.

• 1:59:07Speaker 04

  I would've, I would've.

• 1:59:08Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I, I would've, I would've. My grandma had wheels, she'd be a bike.

• 1:59:12Speaker 04

  So that, that to me, that was the scariest I've ever had. I just, I got overly confident because I knew the car and its limits so well, that I was like, okay, I know where that edge is and I'm gonna push right up to it and, and there's no undo button if you get right up to it.

• 1:59:24Doug DeMuro?

  That makes sense.

• 1:59:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, there you go.

• 1:59:26Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, okay, final question, final question. Uh, dear Doug, dear Ed, given that Doug will never go anywhere outside of San Diego or Nantucket, how did you get him to come to the VinWiki Studio? How did that happen? I was in Atlanta for.

• 1:59:38Speaker 03

  You were in Atlanta for some other reason, yes, that's the answer, uh, which I had no other reason to come to San Diego.

• 1:59:42Doug DeMuro?

  Even then, though, it was unusual that I came up to see you.

• 1:59:46Speaker 03

  Cuz you had been to Atlanta many times.

• 1:59:48Doug DeMuro?

  But I love Atlanta.

• 1:59:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:59:50Doug DeMuro?

  And to devote time to seeing you in Atlanta, that is the ultimate privilege. Like when I go to Wichita, I'm seeing Hoover, and by the way, I've never been to Wichita, with Hoover living there. But when I come to Atlanta, I dearly love Atlanta, like more than anything, like more than I love Nick.

• 2:00:03Speaker 04

  It's fair.

• 2:00:04Doug DeMuro?

  If I could trade Nick for Atlanta.

• 2:00:07Speaker 03

  I'm not the top 10 things about Atlanta.

• 2:00:09Doug DeMuro?

  No, like I, and you're also far, if I'm being honest. Like you're out there, like you're out there.

• 2:00:15Speaker 03

  It's not that far, but yeah.

• 2:00:17Doug DeMuro?

  It's a drive.

• 2:00:18Speaker 04

  He thinks the same about me cuz I live in Encinitas, which is like literally 10 miles.

• 2:00:23Doug DeMuro?

  No, no, no, no, he's way farther. Encinitas is far.

• 2:00:25Speaker 04

  It's same, same.

• 2:00:26Speaker 03

  Talks like he's got his watch back.

• 2:00:28Speaker 04

  Like, yeah, it's, it's.

• 2:00:29Speaker 03

  It's not that far, it's lovely and you can have a gigantic garage there.

• 2:00:32Speaker 04

  Marathoners run further than that, you know, like it ain't that far.

• 2:00:36Doug DeMuro?

  How many miles? It's gotta be more than that, outside of the city? How far are you from the airport in miles? It's gotta be at least 25 miles.

• 2:00:41Speaker 03

  Give or take that, yeah.

• 2:00:42Speaker 04

  It's a marathon, it's a marathon. They've been running those for centuries.

• 2:00:46Doug DeMuro?

  I went to see Ed because Ed is real and Ed and I go back many, many, many years.

• 2:00:51Speaker 03

  We do.

• 2:00:52Doug DeMuro?

  I have never gone to see anyone else, ever.

• 2:00:55Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:00:56Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:57Speaker 04

  Not even your friend Perry from Atlanta?

• 2:00:58Speaker 03

  Now I feel very.

• 2:00:59Doug DeMuro?

  No, like other YouTubers, like I've never seen Freddie, I've never been to Utah for Strad, I've never gone to see the Throttlehouse dudes.

• 2:01:04Speaker 04

  No, you're, you're not living.

• 2:01:05Doug DeMuro?

  And I love them all, I just.

• 2:01:08Speaker 04

  They've gotta come to you, you were willing to go to Encinitas for Throttlehouse.

• 2:01:12Speaker 03

  And the, and the only, I mean, you traveled for some car reviews, but not many. You went to C-NO.

• 2:01:17Doug DeMuro?

  No, no, for a long time, I really went at it and did a lot of travel. But that, it was a while ago.

• 2:01:22Speaker 03

  Didn't you go to Australia to do, and you didn't even drive it?

• 2:01:26Doug DeMuro?

  They, they promised that I could like do an Enzo in an EB110 and I showed up in the Enzo, they were like, you can film it, you can't drive in the EB110, we can't move at all.

• 2:01:33Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 2:01:34Doug DeMuro?

  It was a bad situation. But we got a good Enzo video out of it.

• 2:01:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:39Doug DeMuro?

  Um, and they had some Myback limo they let me drive, which was great. Uh, but yeah, I used to go all over. You still, it sounds like you still travel a ton.

• 2:01:46Speaker 03

  I've, it's been a lot lately, I tried to say no to everything, but there's, then it's just stuff pops up. So yeah, I've been doing these like, you know, cheap car races. I mean, actually, the only time I really scared myself lately, we were racing Rangers with Matt's Offroad Recovery and they, on this darn dirt track and they, so they had outfitted them with like these Baja cages and stuff and when they called, I was like, well, what seats are you putting in? I'm like, well, we're just gonna leave stock seats and do harnesses off the, I was like, that seems like a really bad idea, like it's like 30 miles an hour, it's not the big of a deal. I said, I bet it isn't.

• 2:02:16Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:17Speaker 03

  And I said, well, regardless of that, I'm not going to fit in a Ranger with a helmet on, and especially if we're gonna jump and.

• 2:02:25Doug DeMuro?

  These were like the full four liter Rangers, like the 90's ones?

• 2:02:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, they were, two wheel drive, open diff, ridiculous. And so, I, uh.

• 2:02:32Speaker 04

  So fun.

• 2:02:33Speaker 03

  So they're like.

• 2:02:34Doug DeMuro?

  You're talking, these are a dime a dozen, they're everywhere.

• 2:02:35Speaker 03

  They bought them all, the way Cletus buys Crown Vics. And so they, uh, they're like, well, we'll just, you know, gurney bubble the roof for you. And I'm like, I still don't think that.

• 2:02:43Speaker 04

  Let's compromise the structure, it's our solve for the safety.

• 2:02:46Speaker 03

  Well, the structure was, they're just the roll cages at that point anyway. And so I get in and I'm like, this still is not gonna work at all because like, you can't, you can only crank, uh, you know, crank yourself down so much on the harnesses. So we had to cut a hole in the roof and then put pool noodles around the cutout so that I, the saws all didn't, you know, destroy me. Uh, but I remember jumping those things and we were like three or four feet in the air and I was like, this is.

• 2:03:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's sketch.

• 2:03:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the last time I really scared myself in a car. It was like, I, I've done this a lot, but like not lately and I'm gonna land real hard, but actually I felt a lot better than the last Cletus race, that, cuz we, we crashed a lot in that one. And so those are much higher energy crashes than floaty dirt, whatever.

• 2:03:26Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, what's a Cletus insurance situation like down there?

• 2:03:28Speaker 03

  They didn't even have a sign of waiver.

• 2:03:30Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, God.

• 2:03:31Speaker 03

  I mean, they're just a general track waiver.

• 2:03:33Speaker 04

  Well, they had pool noodles, so I mean, you know, we really eat a waiver.

• 2:03:35Doug DeMuro?

  Cletus is just hoping for the best.

• 2:03:37Speaker 03

  That's it, that's it.

• 2:03:38Doug DeMuro?

  How does it feel to be the only legitimate person aside from me in this business?

• 2:03:42Speaker 03

  Well, they're, they're the ones that are, you know, getting pay-per-view numbers on these things.

• 2:03:47Doug DeMuro?

  I know, but we're like, you agree, like the other people are all, there's a, there's everyone else is that does some sketchy stuff.

• 2:03:53Speaker 03

  I don't think legit is the answer, I think grown up is a better answer, that's how I feel. I feel like I'm kind of the grown up in the room sometimes.

• 2:03:59Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I feel like that too.

• 2:04:00Speaker 03

  And then I'm still flying through the air in a green painted Ranger with a, you know, Home Depot skeleton hanging off the back of it cuz it was Halloween week, yeah. So that happened, but.

• 2:04:09Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, wow.

• 2:04:10Speaker 03

  Somebody's gotta do it.

• 2:04:11Doug DeMuro?

  Um, okay, that's it.

• 2:04:13Speaker 03

  That's all the questions.

• 2:04:14Doug DeMuro?

  We did two hours, this is way too much. The audience wants a two hour pod and I don't wanna give it to them, I regret it.

• 2:04:19Speaker 04

  Well, after we cut some things, I think we're good, so end it quick.

• 2:04:22Doug DeMuro?

  We're not gonna cut anything. Thank you so much, everybody. Ed Bolian, the VinWiki Collection is gonna be live soon on Cars and Bids. Buy, buy, buy, buy it. Cars and Bids Festival, November 22. Sean Leff, you can promo whatever you want.

• 2:04:35Speaker 04

  Uh, nickylube.com. Buy the merch.

• 2:04:38Doug DeMuro?

  This isn't even a real business.

• 2:04:40Speaker 04

  No, I know, but I, I half listened to your advice, I launched a business, it just wasn't a real one. It's a fake one.

• 2:04:46Doug DeMuro?

  Goodbye, everyone.

• 2:04:47Speaker 04

  Bye.

• 2:05:09Speaker 00

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