LEGENDS OF HAWAI'I: Madame Pele (with Lopaka Kapanui)

Yvette and Rasha continue their trip home to Honolulu alongside master storyteller Lopaka Kapanui—this time discussing the history and legends of the ancient Hawaiian goddess of fire and volcanoes, Madame Pele. She’s said to still walk the island, taking many forms—and Rasha and Yvette talk about their own personal experiences with the goddess.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 0:39Rasha Pecoraro?

  Aloha e komo mai. So Supernatural listeners, I'm Rasha Peccararo. And I'm Yvette Gentile. And do we have a surprise for y'all. We have the most beautiful and amazing human we have ever encountered in our entire lives, sitting right next to us. And his name is Lopaka Kapunui. He is a native Hawaiian storyteller, Konaka Maoli. He is an author, an actor, a kumuhula, a cultural practitioner, former professional wrestler.

• 1:15Speaker 03

  What is that doing in there?

• 1:18Rasha Pecoraro?

  And Lopaka is a proud husband, father, and grandfather. Sometimes known as "The Ghost Guy", Lopaka makes a business of leading guests into some of the darkest, spookiest, and dare I say, supernatural places on the island of Oahu, in our hometown, in Honolulu, Hawaii.

• 1:53Rasha Pecoraro?

  E komo mai, Lopaka Kapanui.

• 1:55Speaker 03

  Aloha. Aloha mai kako. It's nice to meet the both of you while we've met. Previously, uh, what, almost 12 hours ago?

• 2:04Rasha Pecoraro?

  On a night market tour. Yes.

• 2:09Yvette Gentile?

  On a ghost tour.

• 2:11Rasha Pecoraro?

  With Mysteries of Hawaii, which was absolutely incredible.

• 2:15Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:16Yvette Gentile?

  Yes, it was fantastic, you know, it was so profound and so beautiful. To hear the stories that you were telling and to walk the path and to feel the energy. But just the history, the history that you tell, it's so needed, Lopaka. It is so needed. So tell us a little bit about how you go preparing for the ghost tours? Or how it started for you and why you're doing it?

• 2:46Speaker 03

  Um, the short story is, my biological mother had things she wanted to pass on. And the even shorter story is, in the process of passing it on, I wasn't allowed to write anything. I couldn't record anything. So it was basically my kahanaka ike, you know, I talk, you listen, and you absorb it. So some lessons were like 20 minutes and other lessons were like until the sun came up. Every single lesson at the end, my mama would say, okay, now tell me everything I just said. Like.

• 3:18Rasha Pecoraro?

  Repeat it.

• 3:19Speaker 03

  She's like, everything, oh my god. But now, you know, all these years later, like, sit.

• 3:27Yvette Gentile?

  But it's so deeply embedded in your spirit, though, right?

• 3:31Speaker 03

  You know, you don't even realize it, that's, you know, it's part of the fabric of who you are. It's almost like, um, once I start, whether it's a ghost tour or a storytelling concert, something just clicks on. And a lot of times, when it's over, like, uh, my wife will tell you, I don't even remember anything happening.

• 3:50Rasha Pecoraro?

  You black out.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:51Yvette Gentile?

  That's so interesting that you said that because we witnessed that last night on the tour.

• 3:55Rasha Pecoraro?

  You did?

• 3:56Yvette Gentile?

  Absolutely, absolutely. We were, we were all just mesmerized from the moment you started talking. We were, the whole group was just like. Right?

• 4:06Rasha Pecoraro?

  Transfix.

• 4:06Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah, transfixed is the perfect word, Raj.

• 4:09Speaker 03

  Yes. A lot of times after it's over, that, you know, beginning part about, you know, if you've got issues with your father, you know, any kind of medication.

• 4:16Rasha Pecoraro?

  You heard me talk up. I was like, wait a sec. I'm like, wait a second. I'm like, am I allowed to be here? Because my quelliana with my father is not good.

• 4:27Speaker 03

  Sometimes people are like, wait a minute, Dramamine, Methadone?

• 4:30Rasha Pecoraro?

  I know.

• 4:33Yvette Gentile?

  We were talking about that actually last night, right? Because, and we didn't get that on recording, when you addressed that, you know, asking, you know, if anybody had any particular situations going on. And then when you said, if you have an ex that is looking for you, or trying to get to you, or jealous, like, all of that started to make sense in that moment, right?

• 4:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. And the beauty of the whole thing, as I was saying last night, is the experience is up to you.

• 5:04Yvette Gentile?

  Right.

• 5:05Speaker 03

  You know, I'm just the person leading the way. So everything you come with determines what happens and what doesn't happen. So some nights, nothing, which is like the best nights, and other nights, everybody has stuff and everything goes to heck.

• 5:20Rasha Pecoraro?

  It was a beautiful night. I definitely felt it at night when I was sleeping and I felt like there was a sitting ghost with me on my leg last night. And I didn't remember it until my sister asked me this morning, how did you sleep? And that's why I had to tell you that this morning. I'm like, Uncle Opaka, I had a sitting ghost with me. Can you describe to me why you think that the sitting ghost was there?

• 5:48Speaker 03

  Well, a lot of people don't realize, and this is academically documented, everybody's inherently psychic. Everybody has some level of a psychic ability. And so that inherent psychic ability is like a muscle. If you don't exercise it, it doesn't work. So at its core, your natural psychic ability is called intuition. And as we know, intuition is a lot more stronger in women than it is in men because... Men are dull. It takes us a while to get to the point, but

• 6:16Rasha Pecoraro?

  I mean, I wasn't gonna say anything.

• 6:20Rasha Pecoraro?

  Present company excluded.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  But women are right there. So it's a lot more prevalent, you know, with women than it is with men. That's essentially what it is. And in your case, you're probably at a level where you don't even realize you've developed it to a certain point. So it's like I said, if you and me are in a ballroom full of people from Wisconsin, but we're the only two Hawaiian people.

• 6:41Rasha Pecoraro?

  I'm gonna find you.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. You're gonna find me. I'm gonna find you. We're on the other side of the room. Our difficulty in communicating is because between us is all this dissonance.

• 6:50Rasha Pecoraro?

  Right.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  So spirits are trying to talk to us all the time, but the reason they can't get through all the time is because we as human beings are focused on jobs, family, relationship, money. So

• 7:00Rasha Pecoraro?

  Pelikia problem.

• 7:02Speaker 03

  Right. Everything that's humanly possible that prevents us from communicating to spirits, that's what it is. So if there's a spirit that's coming through, that's trying to get you a message, but it can't because you're having all this stuff happening, it will go to the person closest to you, who is your sister.

• 7:19Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 03

  So it might be your auntie who will tell her, can you tell Rasha, I don't mind when she come, leave food on my headstone, but please tell her, take it away. Guys, then the bugs, the bugs is driving me crazy.

• 7:31Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yvette is much more receptive, I think, to the spirit world.

• 7:34Yvette Gentile?

  For sure.

• 7:35Rasha Pecoraro?

  I get kind of scared about it, but as I've shared with you, we both, Yvette and I desperately want like our mom, her spirit to visit us. And I feel like she's come in dreams, but I want to physically feel her.

• 7:49Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah, we were talking about that last night on the tour with another woman that was on the tour and she was saying that I want to see it. I want to see the ghost. I want to feel the ghost. And I said, Rasha, you know, especially Rasha, she wants mom to come and pull her hair because mom said

• 8:04Rasha Pecoraro?

  Brush my hair.

• 8:05Yvette Gentile?

  She was gonna do that, right?

• 8:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:07Yvette Gentile?

  And I think that Yes, we want that, but there are times that when you're sleeping or you feel their presence. I know that when I fall asleep and something may be going on and I'm just calling out to mom, like, "Help me, Mom, help me, Mom." And I can feel her touching my head. You know, and sometimes you think, "Well, is that just in my mind? Am I just conjuring this up?" But the reality is, no, I'm not. She is there.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:33Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, whether you know it or not, I mean, she's there all the time. But for us as human beings, we have to get ourselves to a certain point where we're not so laden down with all this extra stuff. That's what leaves you in this capacity to receive communication from your mom or whoever it is that's trying to get through.

• 8:53Yvette Gentile?

  How old were you when you first recognized that you could feel or see spirit or?

• 9:00Speaker 03

  Do you really want to know that answer?

• 9:02Yvette Gentile?

  I would love to.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Okay. When I was six years old, I was adopted by a Portuguese Catholic family. So when I would go to the bathroom, there was blood, so I had to go to Children's Hospital to take care of that.

• 9:15Yvette Gentile?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 9:16Speaker 03

  So the short story is, when I was in the hospital, there was a kid next to me and his name was Scotty Boyd, and he was famous because he was on this TV commercial. The commercial is him sitting on this fence at Parker Ranch, and his dad was playing the ukulele and, you know, Scott was singing this song.

• 9:30Yvette Gentile?

  On Hawaii Island?

• 9:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, and so that's, you know, that's how he was a celebrity. So we'd play all the time. One evening before dinner, on his side of the ward, there's, you know, light shining this way. So here comes a doctor, his parents, and they come up to his bed and they close the partition between us, this white curtain. So because there's this light on this side, you can see all their shadows. And there's crying and just grieving. And then I see all the shadows leave, but I can see Scotty's silhouette like this on the bed. And I see him get up like this, and he gets off this side of the bed and comes around this way. And on this, his side of the curtain, he's going, "Friend, friend, let's go play, come on." It's like, they laugh, "Let's go play." So I'm swinging my feet over to, you know, get off the bed.

• 10:14Speaker 03

  And up until that point, every afternoon, my adopted father's mom, Grandma Lucy, would come and sit with me until they would show up like an hour before she'd leave. And as I'm going to get off the bed, I hear her voice from behind me. She's, get off that bed. And I think it's strange because she was supposed to have left at five. And I I saw her, I said, why? She goes, you know, I was paying attention to what was happening. I said, no, she said, that boy Maka, he died. So she said, you get off that bed, your feet touch the floor, you go play with that boy, you never come back. So she said, you stay right there, don't move, no matter what happens. And so there's Scott, his shadow on the other side of the curtain going, friend, friend, let's go play.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  And then it just stopped. And then a couple of days later, there's this eleven year old kid in this side of the ward. He was from Akiki. So this guy went downstairs to the kitchen after lunch and stole like a six pack of Coke, Coca-Cola.

• 11:11Rasha Pecoraro?

  Okay.

• 11:11Speaker 03

  And remember Coke was a real thing back then.

• 11:14Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All the sugar, all the things, yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 03

  There we are in the steps, you know, hiding down down the steps and we're drinking Coca-Cola and me with my kidney condition.

• 11:23Rasha Pecoraro?

  Is that what you had when you were in the hospital? Okay.

• 11:25Speaker 03

  So I ended up having to go get surgery. So during the surgery, I remember being on the table in this spotlight. And on the outer perimeter of the spotlight, I can hear my friend Scotty going, no, no, no, I'll take him, I'll take him. And then this, and my grandmother's voice going, no, no, I will take him. And then this woman's voice saying, no, no, he's coming with me. And my, I heard my grandma Lucy saying, no, I will take him for life. And I remember coming out of the surgery and I'm still kind of groggy, but I hear my adopted mom talking to the doctor and the doctor said, yeah, we we lost him. You know, but, you know, we bought him back. And my adopted mom said, for how long? He said, oh, I think less than a minute.

• 12:08Rasha Pecoraro?

  Wow.

• 12:09Speaker 03

  You know, I remember her screaming out, what you mean, less than a minute?

• 12:13Speaker 03

  You know, so ever since ever since then, it it became a lot more prevalent than it was before.

• 12:18Rasha Pecoraro?

  From the age of six?

• 12:19Speaker 03

  From the age of six. So when I finally met my biological mom, that's one of the things I told her. And She said to me, "Oh, it's because you're Hawaiian."

• 12:30Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  I was like, "What?"

• 12:30Rasha Pecoraro?

  Kanaka Maoli.

• 12:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. She goes, you know, later, later, when, you know, when you're older, I'll tell her, she goes, but she goes, "Don't worry, it's because you're Hawaiian."

• 12:37Rasha Pecoraro?

  Huh.

• 12:38Speaker 03

  She said, "But I'll, I'll explain it later." So, once I started to learn from her, she said, "It's who we are."

• 12:43Rasha Pecoraro?

  Wow.

• 12:44Speaker 03

  As a people, she said, "I cannot speak for the whole race of Hawaiian." She said, "I can only tell you what's in our family."

• 12:50Rasha Pecoraro?

  Your lineage.

• 12:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so, yeah, that's how it all started. It's actually a little short story.

• 12:57Rasha Pecoraro?

  And as you were telling that story, the light is flickering over there. Yeah. So, do we need to do an ollie?

• 13:07Speaker 03

  Yes, well, let's.

• 13:08Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah, yes.

• 14:10Speaker 05

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• 14:33Speaker 06

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• 15:03Rasha Pecoraro?

  Well, I would love to ask because I know that you are a direct descendant of Madame Pele. And I personally, and my sister Yvette, we've always, always been so engrossed, enthralled.

• 15:25Yvette Gentile?

  Just so drawn to her.

• 15:27Rasha Pecoraro?

  So drawn to Madame Pele. We have art for both of our homes.

• 15:30Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah, we both have a big painting of her. You know, I have one in my studio, you have one in your living room, which is given to us by our mother, Fana Hodel. Wow. And we've always had this.

• 15:42Rasha Pecoraro?

  Affinity.

• 15:42Yvette Gentile?

  Affinity, yeah, this connection to her. So can you tell us a little bit about the legend of Pele?

• 15:50Rasha Pecoraro?

  And your connection to her.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  So on my mother's side, our connection to Pele is through the Kahuna of Pele. And the story goes that Pele and her siblings are born from different parts of their mother's body, Homel.

• 16:05Rasha Pecoraro?

  Hmm, yes.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  And so as Pele is growing up, her older sister is Mamakoka, the goddess of the ocean. So they don't get along.

• 16:15Rasha Pecoraro?

  Not like us, yeah.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  So Homel said, "Look, you stay on this side of the island. Your sister will be on the other side. You guys just stay out of each other's way." And the person who eventually teaches Pele how to stoke the fires at a volcano is her uncle, Lonomakua.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  And in one legend, it says that Namakoka's husband was this Ali'i, Au Kele Nui'aiku. And that at some point, when Namaka was away, Pele just happened to wander on her sister's side of the island. And she got together with Au Kele and, you know, they did biology together.

• 16:51Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah, biology. We all know what biology is.

• 16:56Speaker 03

  And so that's strike one.

• 16:58Yvette Gentile?

  Right. Huge strike.

• 17:00Speaker 03

  Yes. Strike two is when Lono Makua is having another lesson with Pele, how to stoke the fires, call it forth, calm it down. And he says all of a sudden, "I forgot, I have an appointment, I'll be right back, so just wait here." And like, you know, Fantasia, Mickey Mouse, The Apprentice. Pele is like stoking the fires, fires get out of control, and it burns down her sister's side of the island. And kills everybody. So when Pele goes to her mother, Homea, and says, "Oh, away, you know, this is what happened." And Homea says, she says, "Okay, look," she says, "this is not going to turn out good for you, so you have to leave."

• 17:41Speaker 03

  And so she tells Pele, "Get all of your siblings, the canoe Honua Iakea will be waiting for you, and your brother Kamua Li'i, the shark god, will guide the way. But make sure you get everyone that belongs to you." And so the canoe's ready to sail, and Homea says, "You can't leave now, you have to wait until sidereal time." Then you go.

• 18:04Yvette Gentile?

  When sidereal time? Yeah, when is that?

• 18:06Speaker 03

  So.

• 18:06Yvette Gentile?

  Explain that.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  According to Homea, it was the time when, you know, Kipu Kala, like the sun is directly overhead, and it casts no shadow. She says, "During that time, you leave." And the time comes, and Pele's leaving with all of her siblings, and she jumps off the canoe and goes to her grandma, and her mama says, "Don't look back, just go." You know, "We'll see each other again," and so Pele took off. So of course, when Namaka gets back and sees all the devastation, she's like... Mom doesn't even stop, so Pele is being pursued across the Pacific by this giant tidal wave with Namaka and her two mo'o, you know, her dragons. And so when Pele arrives to Ni'ua, she can't make a volcano because it's too small.

• 18:51Rasha Pecoraro?

  Hmm.

• 18:52Speaker 03

  And so she goes to Ni'ihau, and this isn't one version that I heard growing up. On Ni'ihau, she sees perhaps she cannot make a volcano either. So she leaves her, uh, one of her brothers, a shark god, Kuha'umauana.

• 19:06Rasha Pecoraro?

  Okay.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  And says to him, "You become the guardian of these Ni'ihau people."

• 19:09Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh.

• 19:10Speaker 03

  Because if my sister comes to inundate the island, you know, it's through no fault of theirs, it is mine. So she says, "Protect them and be their au'makua." So today, on the island of Ni'ihau, uh, the Ni'ihau people are not afraid of sharks. And so next, Pele goes to Oahu and tries to make a volcano, and Namako'kahi shows up and keels out the fire, so Salt Lake, Aliapa'kai, was an actual lake of sea salt.

• 19:36Rasha Pecoraro?

  Wow.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  Which she tried to dig out. So today, when the volcano is erupting, uh, there's Pele sightings in Salt Lake.

• 19:42Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh.

• 19:43Speaker 03

  You know, in the neighborhood, but she stops at Ka'ava. And so they take a break, and Pele's like, you know, "Guys, take a break, you know, ho'uma'lieya'au'ko, you know, ya'au'ko'io." She said, "Oh," you know, so they're taking a break. And as they're leaving, Pele has this, this pet dog, size like of a baby elephant. And so she says to this, this leo, she says, "You wait for me until I come back." And the dog says, "When will I know this?" She said, "When you see a raging orb of fire through the night sky," she says, "That will be me, and that, that is my return." So the dog climbed on this hill and waited so long, he turned to stone. So the people of the area didn't know the dog's name, so they called him Ka'ui Makona'lanu,

• 20:27Speaker 03

  "The red-eyed one who gazes toward the heavens."

• 20:29Rasha Pecoraro?

  Hmm.

• 20:29Speaker 03

  So today, that's the Crouching Lion.

• 20:31Rasha Pecoraro?

  Ah, we just drove by there yesterday, and it's always been such a magical place for us.

• 20:36Yvette Gentile?

  So growing up, we would always take a drive around the island, we'd go there, we'd have lunch. And I'm a leo, so every time.

• 20:45Rasha Pecoraro?

  As is Lopaka.

• 20:47Yvette Gentile?

  Yes, as is Lopaka.

• 20:49Rasha Pecoraro?

  I fell only. And our beautiful mom, Fana Hotel.

• 20:52Yvette Gentile?

  But we, I was always drawn. To that area, always, always, right, Russia?

• 20:58Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yes, always. So it's not a lion, it's an ilio, it's a dog. It's Pele's dog. How sacred.

• 21:07Speaker 03

  I know. It's like, we never had lions in ancient Hawaii.

• 21:11Rasha Pecoraro?

  Right. But now, looking back, like, we just drove by there yesterday.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:18Rasha Pecoraro?

  Like, it looks like an ilio. It looks like a dog.

• 21:21Yvette Gentile?

  Right, right, right.

• 21:23Rasha Pecoraro?

  A crouching.

• 21:24Yvette Gentile?

  Crouching dog.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. So he's still waiting for.

• 21:30Speaker 03

  And so, you know, uh, cool lineup, Punchbowl, Leahie, Diamond Head, peeled out, you know, Pele was unsuccessful.

• 21:37Yvette Gentile?

  Right.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  And even like, uh, Molokaila and I, Kohola, just unsuccessful. So when she gets to Maui, you know, at that point, she's like, you know what, I've had it. So she's gonna turn and fight. And she does, she fights bravely, but because the Makaka has her two mo'oh, they end up killing Pele, and they scatter her bones at a place called Ka'ivi'io Pele and Hana. And so, Pele's family take her bones, and they deify her through this ceremony called, uh, Kupaku. So they're taking the mana of her bones and they're going to deify her into an almakua.

• 22:13Rasha Pecoraro?

  Hmm, into a god.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  And so that's how she becomes Pele, the goddess of fire.

• 22:17Rasha Pecoraro?

  Wow.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  So the Makaka looked toward Hawaii Island and saw, you know, just this fountain of flames from what is now Kilauea, she knew, okay, you know, I can't kill my sister now.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  And so, there's sort of like this, this thing, all right, you know, you do you, I'll do me.

• 22:36Rasha Pecoraro?

  Wow.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, we'll leave each other alone.

• 22:38Rasha Pecoraro?

  And there's been peace ever since between them?

• 22:42Speaker 03

  Pretty much. And I find it's funny, like, when hurricanes are coming with, you know, rains and horrible waters, um, the big island always buffers that hurricane.

• 22:50Rasha Pecoraro?

  Right.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  And so the rest of the archipelago doesn't, doesn't feel it. So, a lot of people who are from places like Kalapana or Ka'ou, when the volcano was erupting, they won't say the volcano was erupting, they will say Pele's having her maki.

• 23:06Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh. She's been having her maki a lot lately?

• 23:10Speaker 03

  A lot.

• 23:10Yvette Gentile?

  A lot, yeah.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  But as my mom said, you know, if she has her maki, there's nothing you can do about it, you just gotta wait.

• 23:16Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah, you gotta let her bleed, literally.

• 23:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. The earth is a woman. But after all that devastation, you know, new life takes place, new growth.

• 23:27Rasha Pecoraro?

  Right. Right.

• 23:28Speaker 03

  So that's the beauty of this duality of Pele. She's a destroyer, a hewer, an eater of land and soil. But when everything's over, it's new life again.

• 23:39Rasha Pecoraro?

  Right. It's a circle of life.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  Absolutely, and it's also sort of indicative of, you know, the circle of life and death.

• 23:47Rasha Pecoraro?

  Right.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  Death happens so life can begin anew.

• 23:50Rasha Pecoraro?

  I have a question for you. I mean, I'd love to know more, of course, about, you know, your amakua and how you are a descendant of Pele. But on a personal level, I just want to know if this is something that you think actually happened. So, you know, Yvette and I have different fathers, and I always went fifty-fifty between my father and stepmother. And we lived in Manoa from when I was the age of five until fifteen. And then we moved to Waileiki. And then, you know, the other fifty percent of the time I was with mom and Yvette, and we lived all over the island of Oahu. But in Manoa, even though I felt like Manoa protected me, inside the home was very tumultuous. And I still have nightmares about it.

• 24:33Rasha Pecoraro?

  I still have all these things that happened to me that I'm processing through therapy and all the things. But when I was in the Waileiki home, there were two things that were supernatural that happened. Well, more than two things, but two big things that I wanted to ask you about. So one of them was, we had three bedrooms, and it was only me, my father, and my stepmother. And in one of the bedrooms, we would always see little menehune footprints by the window. And it was, you know, parallel to the ground. We'd always see the footprints, and I'm like, what is that? I mean, and my dad would like vacuum like crazy on the carpet, and the footprints every

• 25:18Rasha Pecoraro?

  morning would come back. So like, I always was convinced that menehune were like, were there. And it felt like a very like spiritual land. And the reason I tell you that story is just because I always felt protected. I was never hit in that home. I had emotional and verbal abuse in that home, but I just felt like there was a barrier trying to protect me. And my father used to say that he would be visited in the shower by Tutupele. And my dad is a big Haule guy. He moved here in the seventies, you know, like he, he wouldn't say Tutupele, but I'm saying that respectfully. He would say, I think Pele is talking to me in the shower. She's got, you know, the, the salt and pepper, like hair, the bun, the long white dress.

• 26:04Rasha Pecoraro?

  And I've never heard him say that he was scared before, and he said he was scared of her. And for me, like, I kind of giggled inside. I was like, oh, it was like a warning call to him. I'm like, Madame Pele, yep. I'm like, Madame Pele is protecting me. And that's, you know, the first time, like, I tried to speak up. I tried to get mom and, you know, Yvette to get like full custody of me. And then I backed down because I was too scared. But do you think that Madame Pele and the Menuhune were really there? Or do you think it was more of just, I mean, he smoked a lot of Pakalolo too.

• 26:34Yvette Gentile?

  There is that.

• 26:34Rasha Pecoraro?

  There is that. But the Menuhune footprints, I physically saw for myself. And I had other, you know, things that happened in that home that I knew there was Amakua or some type of spirit watching over me.

• 26:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, there are Menuhune in that area. From Waileiki to, uh, what's the Bear State? It's right next to, uh, Calvary by the Sea.

• 26:55Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, almost to Aina Haina.

• 26:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the Bear State, uh, was used in Hawaii Five-O as Steve McGarrett's house.

• 27:04Rasha Pecoraro?

  Right.

• 27:05Yvette Gentile?

  The original Hawaii Five-O. Yeah, the glory days.

• 27:08Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Uh, it's a place where they have Japanese weddings.

• 27:14Rasha Pecoraro?

  Right.

• 27:14Speaker 03

  So it's a two-story, really nice little place on the beach. And I know the owner. And so one year she allowed me to have this ghost story thing at the Bear State. And when it was over, um, she says, you know, can I share some stories with you? I'm like, oh, absolutely. And she brings out these pictures and she's handing it to everybody. So she says, you know, nobody knows this, but, you know, there's Menuhune on this property. And so the husband is a retired attorney and when Susan's done telling her part of it, husband says, I'm a retired attorney. I grew up in a Japanese family, plantation Japanese family, like very, very samurai.

• 27:50Rasha Pecoraro?

  Hmm, yes.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  We don't have time for this kind of thing. And he said, you know, when the wedding guests come, the bride goes upstairs, does her makeup and all that, then they come here on the beach to get married. And he said, one day I'm bringing the bouquet up and he said the stairs are like this and you know, you can see between the stairs. And he said, he looked down and he said, this is a little boy, like this tall. And he said, dark, dark skin, like black shiny hair, like big eyes. And he said, when he did a double take, he said, it's not a little boy, it's a man.

• 28:20Rasha Pecoraro?

  Hmm.

• 28:21Speaker 03

  Fully formed man, like over there. And he said, it took off, he chased that crater, it was gone.

• 28:27Rasha Pecoraro?

  Wow.

• 28:27Speaker 03

  And so he said, it kept happening with such frequency that, you know, they were kind of freaked out, you know, should be closed down their business. And so the husband asked me, like, you know, what, what should we do? Cause it's still happening. I said, you have to leave out a, a certain type of pink banana.

• 28:44Rasha Pecoraro?

  As an offering?

• 28:45Speaker 03

  Starchy one, uh, iholena. And then a particular kind of shrimp, if you can find it.

• 28:52Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  So you leave out those two things, you should be fine.

• 28:56Rasha Pecoraro?

  Raw or cooked shrimp?

• 28:57Speaker 03

  Raw.

• 28:58Rasha Pecoraro?

  Okay.

• 28:59Speaker 03

  And, you know, when you make the offerings, you know, just I'm so and so, here's my offering, you know, call him my, let's work together.

• 29:06Rasha Pecoraro?

  Hmm.

• 29:07Speaker 03

  And so I'm standing here, everybody's seated here, uh, Susan, her husband are talking over here. And I glanced this way in the living room, just, you know, momentarily, you know how this leg is on this table?

• 29:19Rasha Pecoraro?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Low to the ground, yeah.

• 29:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. So table's kind of taller, but you know, the table leg. And I glance and I see this little Hawaiian boy, dark, dark skin, knees up to his chest, shiny hair, big eyes like this. And he looks at me and he goes like this, he goes,

• 29:36Rasha Pecoraro?

  He blinked.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  He blinked and then he got up and walked that way and it's like this tall, it's like.

• 29:44Speaker 03

  So I didn't know what to do. I had a creamsicle, so in Hawaiian in my mind and like.

• 29:55Rasha Pecoraro?

  So I'm validated knowing that there were. What do we think about Tutu Pele?

• 29:59Speaker 03

  Well, plus, you know, um, what's that place? Uh, Coco Head?

• 30:04Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 30:05Speaker 03

  You know the story of Coco Head?

• 30:06Rasha Pecoraro?

  No.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  That's uh, Kohelepelepe. I'm gonna turn beet red. So.

• 30:13Rasha Pecoraro?

  I see it happening right now.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  You know, I said last night, you know, I'm a gentleman. I don't swear in front of women.

• 30:19Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  So this is not swearing, but Kohelepelepe is that, um.

• 30:27Rasha Pecoraro?

  And he's a beautiful, gorgeous.

• 30:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:30Rasha Pecoraro?

  Hawaiian dark skinned man. He is pink for sure.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  It's.

• 30:35Rasha Pecoraro?

  I'm gonna take a photo with you right now. I have to.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  Uh, let me put it to you this way.

• 30:40Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh, fucka.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  Um, Pele got involved with this guy that her family told her was absolutely the wrong guy. And you know, when you tell your family member that's the wrong person, the first thing they do is.

• 30:51Rasha Pecoraro?

  Go after it.

• 30:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:53Yvette Gentile?

  We know this very well.

• 30:55Rasha Pecoraro?

  I should say I do.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  Yes. So, so of course, you know, when it's the wrong person, uh, this person ends up living with Pele. Doesn't have Pele live with them. And so this person is Kamapua, the pig god. So when they consummate the relationship, like the lovemaking goes on like weeks and weeks.

• 31:17Rasha Pecoraro?

  Woo.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  It's just good being a god.

• 31:18Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah, get it, girl.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  But at some point, Pele is like lava, pow, that's enough, but Kamapua is like, no.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  I only took this part of the blue pill. It's like.

• 31:35Rasha Pecoraro?

  Now we're turning red.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  So at some point, Kama Pua is like restraining her, he's starting to bite her to hold her down.

• 31:43Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh, ah, oh, ne.

• 31:44Speaker 03

  And so Pele's sister, Kupu Ulaki Nutu, sees this and knows her sister's in trouble. So she removes her own personal body part and waves it in front of the pig god like this.

• 31:56Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh, Nani.

• 31:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then takes her koe and throws it. Until it lands where Coco Head Crater is now.

• 32:05Rasha Pecoraro?

  What?

• 32:06Speaker 03

  Koe Lepe Lepe, the flying.

• 32:10Speaker 03

  So Kama Pua chases that thing and the second it lands, he's like just, you know, going to town on it.

• 32:15Rasha Pecoraro?

  Wow.

• 32:16Speaker 03

  So, um.

• 32:18Rasha Pecoraro?

  So it's like the flying Bunani?

• 32:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:20Rasha Pecoraro?

  Well, koe is.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Here.

• 32:22Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 32:23Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 32:25Rasha Pecoraro?

  Wow.

• 32:26Speaker 03

  As, as Roger Daltrey said, your squeeze box.

• 32:32Rasha Pecoraro?

  Something I didn't know I was gonna learn today.

• 32:37Speaker 03

  Mama never sleeps at night. So a couple of years ago, well, actually before Covid, um, you know, these two women asked me to perform their wedding ceremony at, at the beach, on the reef at Sandy Beach.

• 32:48Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh, beautiful.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  As the sun's coming up, so I turn around and I see the back of, of Coco Head. Koe Lepe Lepe, and I tell them the whole story. They're like, what? And I said.

• 33:01Rasha Pecoraro?

  It's a lesbian wedding, isn't it? They're loving that, you know?

• 33:05Speaker 03

  I said, look at the back of, of Coco Crater. I said, what does it look like? They're like.

• 33:10Rasha Pecoraro?

  I'm never gonna be able to organize it again.

• 33:12Speaker 03

  They're gonna drive straight there, I was like.

• 33:14Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 33:15Speaker 03

  You're tired.

• 33:16Rasha Pecoraro?

  Listeners, Google Coco Head on the island of Ohahu.

• 33:20Yvette Gentile?

  That's your comment.

• 33:21Rasha Pecoraro?

  I know, but the back end, not the front end.

• 33:25Speaker 03

  But I said, you know, warrants, warrants are Kupun are just poetic geniuses, I mean, look at it.

• 33:32Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh, my goodness, that's so funny.

• 33:35Speaker 03

  So Pele has, you know, dominion in that area as well.

• 33:38Rasha Pecoraro?

  Wow.

• 33:39Speaker 03

  So if she was appearing to, to that man.

• 33:41Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  In the shower and that, in that capacity, she certainly had something to say.

• 33:48Rasha Pecoraro?

  And it was several times, several times.

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• 34:24Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers.

• 34:26Speaker 06

  And I'm Britt. And if you're on the edge of your seat, listening to this show, Crime Junkie needs to be your next listen.

• 34:32Speaker 05

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• 34:47Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's me. And I'm right there with you as we listen together, react to every wild detail, and of course, I ask all the questions.

• 34:55Speaker 05

  And I'm gonna have the answers, because we have case files, we're talking to detectives and family members, and we're gonna stay focused on the facts.

• 35:03Speaker 06

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• 35:09Speaker 05

  And you can listen to new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 35:18Rasha Pecoraro?

  I've always immersed myself in the Hawaiian culture. Like, I wanted to be Kanaka Maoli so bad. And there was rumors, our biological grandmother, she, you know, had told me that we had family from Molokai. So in my mind, I'm like, oh, I have cocoa, we have Hawaiian blood. I'm like, I know it, I know it.

• 35:42Speaker 05

  I told you.

• 35:43Rasha Pecoraro?

  I told you. And then, you know, before our mom passed in 2017, we all did 23andMe DNA. Sure enough, no Hawaiian blood, no cocoa.

• 35:53Speaker 05

  But we did have a little bit of Japanese.

• 35:54Rasha Pecoraro?

  Japanese, Korean, Spanish, like, yeah. This blonde, blue-eyed girl is not all Haoli, is not all white. You know, I've always been taught to respect the Hawaiian culture, that like, it's the only culture I know. And of course, you know, with mom and mom decided to raise Yvette and I in Hawaii because she didn't want us to experience any of the racism that she went through because she wasn't white enough, she wasn't black enough.

• 36:26Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah, she felt Hawaii was the melting pot. And when she came here, you know, the energy, the mana, right? And the ina, the land, you feel it. And she knew, she knew from that instance that this is where I want to raise my child, my children. She didn't have Rasha yet, but she had me, who was this biracial child. And she thought, this is the perfect place, you know? And, you know, I didn't get here till I was probably eight years old. And it was hard at first because we came from San Diego. You know, there's Disneyland, SeaWorld, all the things. But as I, you know, started to grow up here, like, there's just something that is so magical,

• 37:09Yvette Gentile?

  it's so precious, that every time I come home, and I come home often, as soon as I get off the plane, everything just melts away, you know? So every day of our lives, we thank mom for bringing us here, raising us here in Hawaii.

• 37:27Rasha Pecoraro?

  And she got her pie, she got pregnant with me here. She even had an appointment to have an abortion. And she flew from Honolulu back to San Diego because she's like, this is the first white guy I've ever slept with. Like, am I really gonna have a kid? And I'm like, I don't know him. And I, she told me later that I came to her in a dream the night before she was supposed to have the abortion. And I remember it as, because the way she described it, she said I was, you know, five years old at the time. It looked like I ended up looking when I was five years old. And I remember saying, I'm supposed to make a difference in the world. Please, you know, save me, I'm supposed to be here.

• 38:07Yvette Gentile?

  She said you were screaming.

• 38:08Rasha Pecoraro?

  She said I was screaming.

• 38:12Rasha Pecoraro?

  And so she was so scared that she had to have me. But I remember it romantically, which is not, it's not the truth.

• 38:19Yvette Gentile?

  This person, I want to be here. And so I truly believe that was the greatest gift was to be born in Honolulu Hawaii and to have my sister by my side, even though mom's not here. And forever, forever. Yeah. And forever and always, you know, she united us so deeply and we will continue to carry her legacy with us wherever we go, you know?

• 38:46Speaker 03

  That's beautiful. It really is. So there's, you know, there's a purpose for you being here. I'm not sure if you guys are ever actually gonna move back here.

• 38:58Yvette Gentile?

  I know, we've talked about it many times. I want to. I know.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  You know, but who knows? This might be actually the springboard to where you need to be financially to actually move back here.

• 39:10Yvette Gentile?

  That's so true.

• 39:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:12Yvette Gentile?

  Universe?

• 39:15Yvette Gentile?

  Man of the snow. We can podcast from anywhere.

• 39:20Speaker 03

  That's the reason why your mom is hanging around, but she's just waiting for the both of you to get to the point where she can actually come through, you know, and say something, you know, do something physically. So it's probably something that only the both of you would know.

• 39:34Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  You know, that's specific to her.

• 39:37Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  Maikumu Hula is Japanese, last name is Miyasato. He grew up in Hawaione when it was just pig farms and orchid farms. But he said, growing up there, everybody, everybody, Hawaiian, Japanese, Filipino, Portuguese, he said, everybody spoke Hawaiian.

• 39:57Yvette Gentile?

  Honolulu Hawaii.

• 39:59Speaker 03

  So Maikumu's Honolulu Hawaii is that dialect from that time.

• 40:02Yvette Gentile?

  Oh, wow.

• 40:04Speaker 03

  You know, but he said, everybody, even though they weren't Hawaiian, were Hawaiian, everybody spoke it. Like, it's not something unusual.

• 40:13Speaker 03

  And so he said, you know, that's, that's the beauty of this place is, you know, once it gets a hold of you, you know, you become Hawaiian in ways you don't think you are Hawaiian, but you are.

• 40:23Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 40:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I think that's the case for the both of you.

• 40:26Rasha Pecoraro?

  Tell our listeners more about Pele being Amakua to you or Ohana to you.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  No. So my sister explained it. She said in our, in our lineage, part of our Ohana on the Kona side were Kokuna to, to Pele. So it's through that lineage that our, our bloodline is, is to Pele. In some circles, they say that Pele and Kamapua actually had a child.

• 40:56Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh.

• 40:57Speaker 03

  And the child's name began with Lono. Supposedly that's how the human connection comes into that line.

• 41:04Rasha Pecoraro?

  I see.

• 41:05Speaker 03

  So, and we have Lono in our bloodline. Was it Pai? Pai and Lono. So as my sister says it, when Kamehma came into power, there was something about this priesthood that he felt was a threat. So when he came into power, he wanted to get rid of that priesthood. So as my sister said it to me, you know, that part of our family had to go underground.

• 41:28Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh.

• 41:29Speaker 03

  And, and hide and try to live among commoners until this, until Kamehma got over it.

• 41:34Rasha Pecoraro?

  Wow. And he eventually got over it?

• 41:37Speaker 03

  I don't know. I mean, there's some of us still around, which explains why. In the late eighties, early nineties, my mama went home to Kalawa, which is a land in Kona, to visit her Auntie Mary Green. They wanted to surprise Auntie, so they didn't tell her they were coming. And my mama says, you know, as she's walking up the steps from inside the house, she hears my auntie going, "Uy, komai, come inside." My mom said, "How do you know we're coming?" She said, "The wind told me you're coming."

• 42:11Rasha Pecoraro?

  Ah, wow.

• 42:12Speaker 03

  And so a couple of days later, they're all gonna go drive to Hilo to go shopping. And my mom wanted to stay home, you know, she was tired. And she said, um, Just sitting down in the living room, you know, enjoying her solitude. And there's this knock on the door and from outside she can hear. Hui, houai napa e ma ke ha le ne. Where the people in this, this house?

• 42:32Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 42:33Speaker 03

  And so my mom said she went to the front door and she said, standing there, beautiful, beautiful Hawaiian girl.

• 42:38Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  Dark skin and just black, black curly hair. And she said, and the hair was like flecks of eboo.

• 42:45Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 42:45Speaker 03

  And she said, almost looks like, like flames.

• 42:48Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  And the girl is wearing this kikapa. And she said the material was like black with red designs. The girl was barefoot.

• 42:55Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  And so the girl asked if, uh, if there was any, we, we, any cold water.

• 43:01Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  You know, with ice. And my, my mom went to go get it. And she said, but the ice in the tray hadn't frozen over. So she, when she came back, she told the girl, you know, ice is not ready yet, but I still have, you know, this water. And the girl took it. And she said, and the girl touched the cup, this film of ice formed over it.

• 43:18Speaker 07

  Oh wow.

• 43:19Speaker 03

  And she drank it and gave it back to my mom. And my mom said, when she grabbed it, you know, and ice is like really, you know, kind of like your fingers stick to it.

• 43:26Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  She said, the girl said, mahalo, you know, mahalo noa. And so my mom said, where, where did you come from? And the girl said, I, I've been walking. So I was, you know, Bella, just, you know, ma ke va, I was thirsty. The girl said, but you know, I'm going now. And so the girl is like going down the driveway and she starts walking out this way. My mom asked her again, where are you going? She goes, oh, my home is over there. And my mom said, that's nothing but ah, ah, it's like dry lava.

• 43:51Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 43:51Speaker 03

  And so my mom said, why don't you wait, I'll bring the car around and I'll take you. And the girl is gone.

• 43:56Speaker 07

  Ah.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  So when my auntie then came home, my, my momma told her what happened. And auntie said, oh, that makes sense. She said, we, we stuck in Halea Ma'ua Ma'ua, we had to make, you know, ho'oukupu to Bella.

• 44:09Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 44:10Speaker 03

  And she said, since he wasn't there, she said, I made one ho'oukupu for you. So when I pule, and I throw the ho'oukupu inside, the wind brought it back.

• 44:19Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  So she said, maybe Pele wanted to see why you never come.

• 44:26Speaker 03

  And my mom was like just jaw to the ground. And so my mom said, yeah.

• 44:32Speaker 07

  That was Pele.

• 44:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:33Speaker 07

  Not on Pele.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  But she said during that encounter, like she doesn't remember sounds, smells. It's just like everything was like hyper focused on this one thing that was happening.

• 44:44Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 44:45Speaker 03

  So in two thousand and five, when we're living off of Gate Street. We're coming back and so I drop off my daughter and her mom at our apartment and I go park on Gate Street. Across the football field from Kaimuki High School. And so I get out of the car on the driver's side. As I close the car door and look over the hood on the other side of this old Hawaiian lady and she's kind of clunky the way she's dressed because you know, torn leg sweater.

• 45:12Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  And plaid skirt and these mod boots, you know, from the sixties.

• 45:17Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  It's like this woman is crazy.

• 45:19Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 45:19Speaker 03

  But Hawaiian woman and she goes, pololiva, she goes, I'm hungry. She goes, take me to Zippy's.

• 45:28Speaker 07

  General after my own heart.

• 45:31Speaker 03

  So I said, well, I'm going to the Jack in the Box Kapo Hula. So you know, I can take you to the Zippy's. She goes, no, not that one, the one in Wahelewa.

• 45:37Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 45:38Speaker 03

  So I said, Tutu, I'm not going that way. She goes, but you know, pololli, maki pololli, I wanna go to that Zippy's.

• 45:44Speaker 07

  Insisting.

• 45:45Speaker 03

  So I glanced down and I noticed that in the backseat, my daughter left her cheese pizza from Chuck E. Cheese.

• 45:52Speaker 03

  So I went like this and I said, um, Tutu, I have cheese pizza if you want it. And she's gone.

• 45:57Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 45:59Speaker 03

  So Date Street is situated in such a way that no matter where anybody walks, you can see them coming and going.

• 46:04Speaker 07

  Right.

• 46:05Speaker 03

  So she's gone. A second later, this, this car just like zoom isn't even the word. It goes by me so fast, like, you know, the jet wash, like, kind of like pushes you.

• 46:14Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 46:15Speaker 03

  And it blows the traffic light in the intersection. It gets T-boned. So that was supposed to be me.

• 46:22Speaker 07

  Wow. So she protected you.

• 46:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it turns out when, you know, the old Hawaiian woman appears for a ride or for food. I always tell people, no matter what she's asking, give it to her.

• 46:35Speaker 07

  Absolutely, yes.

• 46:36Speaker 03

  Give her the food, whatever she wants. I said, because those two or three minutes that she's saving you from something worse.

• 46:44Rasha Pecoraro?

  And that's Tutu Pele.

• 46:45Speaker 03

  That's Tutu Pele. Even today, I would think, why would she wear a turtleneck sweater?

• 46:50Yvette Gentile?

  And a skirt?

• 46:51Speaker 03

  Flat skirt and mon boots.

• 46:53Rasha Pecoraro?

  I know, I'm used to her in like a turtleneck, like white, not turtleneck, but the high collared white, you know, beautiful like dress.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  But then I thought, maybe that's why she appeared like that.

• 47:02Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 47:03Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 47:03Rasha Pecoraro?

  Cause you're like, who is Tutu in this crazy clothes?

• 47:07Speaker 03

  WTF.

• 47:08Yvette Gentile?

  Right, right. Made you stop, right?

• 47:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:11Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 47:11Rasha Pecoraro?

  And that was in two thousand five?

• 47:13Speaker 03

  Two thousand five, you know, and the belt didn't match the shoes, but who cares?

• 47:17Yvette Gentile?

  But you remember, you remember. As I would, remember.

• 47:24Speaker 03

  But, you know, that's, that's how our, our ancestors work from the other side. Whether you need help or you need that moment of affirmation.

• 47:33Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 47:34Speaker 03

  Or knowing you have to go right, but you intend on going left. You know, that's what they're doing. And sometimes they have to come through and physically slap you on the head, what are you doing?

• 47:50Speaker 00

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• 48:21Rasha Pecoraro?

  Our extended Ohana, our extended family is very complicated. We have a lot of generational trauma. That trauma was powerful. It stuck with our mom. Our mom just radiated pure light. Like how you said last night, how the light always overpowers the darkness. That was our mom. And so for me, now she, I just wanted to ask you, like, she's now an ancestor because she's passed on, right? And we can

• 48:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:48Rasha Pecoraro?

  Because I always want to do everything pono and everything from a place of aloha and love and represent her. And that this is our dream job, working together and

• 48:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:59Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah, and it was created through her, you know, how it all began was because of her, so.

• 49:06Rasha Pecoraro?

  I just want to make sure that she's the only ancestor that's with us and not the scary ones. Are other scary ones still there and we have to learn to

• 49:15Speaker 03

  There's the thing, when you're asking for protection, prayers, guidance

• 49:20Rasha Pecoraro?

  Pāpō mai ka'i.

• 49:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, from your ancestors. No matter what the circumstance was in life, they're still your family, so

• 49:27Rasha Pecoraro?

  Okay.

• 49:28Speaker 03

  You ask everybody.

• 49:29Rasha Pecoraro?

  Okay.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  And everybody has to come. Because, you know, in our culture, when you ask with sincerity, with intention, they're obligated, they have to come.

• 49:40Rasha Pecoraro?

  Okay.

• 49:40Speaker 03

  And protect you, so even your jerk uncle, you know, has to come too. Your jerk stepfather, you know, they have to come too because you're asking and they're obligated, no matter what the circumstance.

• 49:52Rasha Pecoraro?

  Okay.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  You know, so you ask everybody and they'll come. And the great thing about communicating with our people is that even though they're no longer flesh and blood, their personality is still the same.

• 50:05Rasha Pecoraro?

  Okay.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  So when you ask of these particular kinds of people who have passed, you talk to them the way you did in life. The same way you talked to them before, you speak to them now.

• 50:15Rasha Pecoraro?

  And even if we didn't know them, still talk to them and give them

• 50:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:20Rasha Pecoraro?

  Respect, I guess, yeah.

• 50:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 50:22Rasha Pecoraro?

  I have to let go of the pain.

• 50:24Yvette Gentile?

  Coming from a place of, of healing, right?

• 50:28Speaker 03

  Yes. So, your job now in this capacity, because this is all generated from your mom

• 50:33Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 50:33Speaker 03

  Is to express the kind of communication that makes a family whole and makes them, you know, tight knit. I'm speaking only for myself, but, you know, I've found that it's because of a lack of communication that we have physical, mental abuse. And sometimes, you know, the other kind. Because my adopted father, I realized later on, was never given the tools to say, I love you.

• 51:04Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 51:04Speaker 03

  Or to hug.

• 51:05Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 51:06Speaker 03

  So, growing up, he made it a point to remind me all the time, you're not my real son.

• 51:13Speaker 07

  Oh, I'm so sorry.

• 51:15Speaker 03

  So, when we'd go out to restaurant or wherever we're going, and you know, his friends would show up and he'd introduce my Hanai mom, you know, my older Hanai brothers, but when he got to me, he goes, oh, that's my adopted son. And I remember in nineteen seventy-two, there was this thing, uh, father-son baseball thing, where if you win, you get to go all expense, paid everything to go see the Red Sox play.

• 51:39Speaker 07

  Oh, wow.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  So, my Hanai father saw that and went to my two older brothers and said, hey, let go do that. And you know, my brother's like, I got girlfriend, I gotta work on my fifty-five Chevy.

• 51:51Speaker 03

  And I was like, dad, dad, let's go, I'll do it. He goes, oh, we can't. He goes, but you're not my real son.

• 51:56Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 51:57Speaker 03

  And he showed me the article, he said, see, this is father and son.

• 52:00Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  You know.

• 52:02Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 52:03Speaker 03

  And so, you know, I promised myself if I ever had a, a child that I would never do that.

• 52:10Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 52:11Speaker 03

  But I also realized, you know, I was so intent on, on seeking, receiving his love, that I forgot to love myself.

• 52:20Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 52:21Yvette Gentile?

  Oof.

• 52:23Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 52:23Speaker 03

  So, for me, I, I believe that's where it begins, you know, but love for yourself first, because if you don't have that hug, how can you love anybody else? And maybe those people who abused us, they didn't get that.

• 52:36Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 52:37Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 52:37Speaker 03

  You know.

• 52:37Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  So, in a way, in spite of what they did, it's kind of not their fault.

• 52:43Speaker 07

  Right. Hurt people, hurt people.

• 52:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. Because they can't.

• 52:46Speaker 07

  You break the cycle.

• 52:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they can't give you what they don't have.

• 52:49Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 52:50Yvette Gentile?

  And you can't hold on to that anger, because that will destroy you, you know, your life. That's just dimming your life.

• 53:00Speaker 03

  That's why my adult, my adult sons that I share with my wife, her boys, um, I wait until they're not expecting it, and I go up to them and I grab them, like, I love you.

• 53:14Speaker 03

  I love you. You know, they're kind of like taken aback, like, tell me you love me.

• 53:20Speaker 03

  And so, you know, my little grandson, so his grandmas love you, I love you so much. You know, and they're like squirming out of my arms. I'm like, you'll thank me one day.

• 53:36Rasha Pecoraro?

  But that's what you're supposed to do. That's, that's how you broke the cycle by loving yourself and passing that aloha on to your ohana. And it doesn't matter. I can tell. It doesn't matter if someone is blood to you or not. They're your ohana.

• 53:49Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 53:49Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah. It doesn't matter that you didn't, you know, physically have them.

• 53:56Speaker 03

  So when my, um, my grandkids, their grandparents like wanted to reconnect with them on Kauai. Our oldest granddaughter wanted to stay. And so I was upset because I said, those people don't deserve, you know, her love because they treated her mom and daughter-in-law like really bad and my wife too.

• 54:17Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 54:18Speaker 03

  So, you know, I told my wife, I said, you know, even though they're not biologically mine, like they're mine.

• 54:26Rasha Pecoraro?

  Not us.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. They've been in my house. I raised them. You know, when they were kids, like they pooped on me.

• 54:33Rasha Pecoraro?

  That's the ultimate.

• 54:35Speaker 03

  Like they threw up on me. I said, they're mine.

• 54:40Speaker 03

  She's like, I know, I appreciate it. She goes, yeah, you know.

• 54:43Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh my goodness.

• 54:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:45Rasha Pecoraro?

  Oh, wow.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  So family is, you know, extends well beyond, beyond Koko.

• 54:49Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 54:50Yvette Gentile?

  Beyond blood.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  But the universality of what you're sharing is just what's important. You know, we raised those people coming up with clear communication, with a clear understanding that, you know, they're loved and they know how to love themselves.

• 55:03Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's easy.

• 55:08Yvette Gentile?

  And that's who our mother was.

• 55:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:11Yvette Gentile?

  You know, despite all the hardship that she went through, she still loved everybody, you know?

• 55:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:19Yvette Gentile?

  And, and that is what shined through her and what drew everyone to her. You know what I'm saying?

• 55:27Rasha Pecoraro?

  And I feel the same way about you.

• 55:29Yvette Gentile?

  She didn't belong to it.

• 55:30Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 55:30Yvette Gentile?

  Yes.

• 55:31Rasha Pecoraro?

  But I feel the same way about you because I know that you've had a crazy.

• 55:39Rasha Pecoraro?

  Crazy upbringing and you are this leader and this true warrior. And we are just so honored to know you and now love you.

• 55:53Speaker 03

  Same here, absolutely. I was just talking about war this morning to my second oldest son. And I said, there's no glory in war, no matter how much they pay it, like people have to die.

• 56:03Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  And I said, and it's horrible that brilliant scientists, you know, generals are always finding new ways to kill other people.

• 56:11Rasha Pecoraro?

  Right.

• 56:12Speaker 03

  Said, that's easy. I said, that's easy. I said, but loving yourself and loving people. You know, and thinking about ways to make other people's lives easier, less complicated. I said, that's hard.

• 56:24Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 56:24Speaker 03

  I said, killing somebody is easy. It's not a problem. But that other stuff. You know, because I told him, once you start realizing that you want to do better for people. I said, the scary thing that happens is you begin to realize, I want to do better for myself.

• 56:37Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yes.

• 56:37Speaker 03

  And some people don't know how to do that. You know, it's sort of like disconcerting. Wow, you know, really me? You know, I'm something, I matter, I get that. It's unfathomable for some people, but you know, this podcast that you're doing might actually help somebody get to that point.

• 56:54Rasha Pecoraro?

  And that is, that is the goal. That is why we do what we do, you know? Yeah.

• 56:59Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 57:01Rasha Pecoraro?

  Who went from Madame Pele to healing the world?

• 57:03Speaker 03

  To healing the world.

• 57:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, she's this fiery woman that, of course, we know, but she's also very loving and all encompassing. So it's like, you know, in any situation, you know, once you're her family, that's it. You know, and woe betide the person who screws with Pele's family.

• 57:31Rasha Pecoraro?

  Look out, y'all.

• 57:34Speaker 03

  But believe me, you know, I don't suffer fools either. You know, I don't do stupid.

• 57:44Rasha Pecoraro?

  I just saw Anya come out in you. He's like, you better recognize.

• 57:50Yvette Gentile?

  Oh my goodness.

• 57:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I hardly get upset, but you know, my wife knows. Once I'm there and the switch is on, it's hard to come back.

• 58:00Yvette Gentile?

  Ooh.

• 58:01Speaker 03

  You know, so I do my best not to get to that point.

• 58:04Yvette Gentile?

  Right.

• 58:04Speaker 03

  You know, unless she do something really dumb.

• 58:08Yvette Gentile?

  I mean, you are human.

• 58:09Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 58:12Yvette Gentile?

  Oh, my gosh. Well, that was an incredible story and, you know, just telling your lineage about, you know, where your family comes from and then the legend of Pele, Pele herself was beyond anything we could have even anticipated.

• 58:31Speaker 03

  Absolutely. You know, it's a story about a woman who had to bear the responsibility of bringing her entire family with her and having this fight with her sister and making sure that, you know, these people are taken care of and fed and all this stuff. So in that journey, Pele herself grew, you know, from this impetuous young woman who just was all over the place, you know, she finally had to be responsible for something other than herself.

• 58:57Yvette Gentile?

  And that is a lesson to humankind right there.

• 59:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so symbolically becoming this Omakua, this goddess of the fire, is her transition to, you know, the station in her life that where she was meant to be. Yeah, because who was it that said, we're afraid of the fact that we can be more than we are? Is it Maya Angelou? Something to that effect.

• 59:18Yvette Gentile?

  Let's go with that.

• 59:19Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 59:21Yvette Gentile?

  It sounds like something Maya would have said. Some wise words for sure.

• 59:34Yvette Gentile?

  This is So Supernatural, an AudioChuck original, produced by Crime House. You can connect with us on Instagram at So Supernatural Pod and visit our website at so-supernaturalpodcast.com. Join Rasha and me next Friday for an all-new episode.

• 59:55Yvette Gentile?

  I think Chuck would have.

• 59:56Speaker 05

  When the nights grow longer, the shadows start to stir. And that can only mean one thing. Full Body Chills is back. This season, step inside original tales where every doorway leads somewhere darker, every stranger carries a secret, and nothing is ever quite what it seems. Each story takes you somewhere new, but be careful. You never know what might follow you home. So gather round, listen close, and stream Full Body Chills wherever you get your podcasts.