The Rockets' Rise and NBA League Pass Rankings With Zach Lowe, Plus Week 12 NFL Picks With Joe House

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Zach Lowe to have an NBA League Pass draft of the most fun teams to watch (2:19). Then, Joe House joins the pod to make their Ringer 107 picks for the week (02:01:30). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Zach Lowe and Joe House Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo This episode is brought to you by Apple Watch. Find our more at apple.com/apple-watch-series-11 Presented by @MichelobULTRA #ULTRACourtside LDA 21 and over. Drink responsibly. This episode is sponsored by State Farm®. Don’t settle for just any insurance when there’s State Farm. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. And whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you. So they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. The Bill Simmons Podcast, brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, which has a slew of awesome podcasts, both sports, culture. Amy Poehler's Good Hang.

• 0:37Bill Simmons?

  I don't need to tell you to check that out because I think it was the most successful launched podcast in the last couple of years. It's a really good podcast, though. I have a new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. And I'll just say this. It's going to be me and Chris Ryan and Cousin Sal.

• 1:01Bill Simmons?

  Those will be the three hosts. And it's a movie that isn't that good.

• 1:06Bill Simmons?

  But you'll still really like it. You'll enjoy the podcast, anyway. So that's coming. I'll tweet out over the weekend. Fine, I'll tell you what it is. Fine, twist my arm. We're doing Two for the Money with Matthew McConaughey and Al Pacino, a movie that predicted the rise of sports gambling and is, I think, started out as a drama and is now a comedy. But we're going to be breaking that down on Monday. So Two for the Money. You have a whole weekend to watch it. 20th anniversary. I'm surprised you haven't celebrated it. Coming up on this podcast, action-packed. I'm recording from New York City. Zach Lowe is here. He joined me live. We did League Pass rankings and a whole bunch of other stuff. And then House comes on late for the Ringer 107 picks. It's all next. We're going to take a break. Pearl Jam and then Zach Lowe.

• 1:50Bill Simmons?

  This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like needing the protection offensive guard on the football field. But getting an elementary school crossing guard. Sure, they're both guards, but you can only trust one to keep your quarterback safe when the game is on the line. So don't settle for just any insurance when you can have State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 2:40Bill Simmons?

  All right, Zach Lowe is here. I am in New York City. Zach Lowe took the train.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Two trains, two kinds of trains, metro north to the subway.

• 2:47Bill Simmons?

  Was it fun?

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Loved the train.

• 2:49Bill Simmons?

  You liked the train? Do you get recognized or people like, hey, Zach Lowe?

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Occasionally, and sometimes someone is listening to my podcast on the subway. That's always a good one.

• 2:57Bill Simmons?

  I was like, hey, you.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Hey, that's a good one. I like that one. If I can make your commute better, that's I've done my service to the world.

• 3:05Bill Simmons?

  What are the Knicks Nets ratio of people like, what's up with my blank? When you're in New York, probably like 99% Knicks?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  It's 50 to one Knicks versus Nets. Meeting a Nets fan, even in New York, is only slightly more common than meeting like a Magic fan in New York. It's it's that bad.

• 3:26Bill Simmons?

  So I went to Nets Celtics on Tuesday night. We had a we had a bunch of Spotify meetings and we actually had a suite. It was a Spotify suite for Celtics Nets. Got there pretty early. It was hilarious watching the Nets do all the checkpoints that the NBA teams do where they're like, no. And then the Jumbotron video screen for two minutes and it's like Michael Porter Jr. turning around and Cam Thomas and and the crowd's just dead. And it's like 60% Celtic fans. The Nets don't even really seem like they want to be there. The Celtics are just like, let's not fuck this game up, guys.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Nets fans hate when you say this and talk about how dead the Barclays Center is. And how it was kind of dead even when they were good. It's like, wow, look, I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry. Like, I've been to a lot of arenas. This is not. It's not resonating.

• 4:16Bill Simmons?

  Here's the problem. It's not dead for the Liberty games.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Dude, Liberty games are awesome.

• 4:20Bill Simmons?

  Liberty games are alive.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:22Bill Simmons?

  So it's the Nets' fault, and it's the Nets' fault probably for thinking they could come into New York and try to steal New York from the Knicks, because everybody loves the Knicks here. So I don't know what the solution is, but I'll tell you one of the solutions. Having five first-round picks and not having any of them be anyone I was that interested in watching play basketball. That wasn't great. Anyway, enough about the Nets. We're going to talk about them later, because one of the many things we're doing, we have a lot of bells and whistles for this one. We're going to do it updated through, what is it, five weeks now?

• 4:51Speaker 01

  About 15 games, whatever it is. I don't know.

• 4:52Bill Simmons?

  Six weeks?

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Whatever.

• 4:53Bill Simmons?

  Updated League Pass rankings, more based on if there were 15 games on and all the teams are across the board, which, where does your eyes go for like, oh, that team, or, oh, I'm not going near that team? Combined with like, what the situation I was in last night, where I went to dinner, I came home. I really had time to watch one game, one of those condensed games, and then a whole fourth quarter of one of the games. And I, the game I picked kind of ties into where we're going. Before we do this. I mean, we could do the League Pass draft, and then when we get to this team, deep dive them. You want to just do it that way?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Whatever you want. This is your, this is the Bill Simmons podcast.

• 5:32Bill Simmons?

  I hate when you pass off this responsibility to me.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  This is the best thing about being a guest, is I don't have to worry about any of that stuff.

• 5:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, good point. All right, League Pass draft. I'll give you the first pick. We'll go back and forth.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  So where are we drafting? Are we drafting the best? Are we drafting right off the top?

• 5:44Bill Simmons?

  I think we have to go best to worst.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:47Bill Simmons?

  And I think worst will be actually kind of funny, because there's, there's a few choices this year, and we'll talk about some of the reasons why. But who's your number one team so far, six weeks?

• 5:55Speaker 01

  So here's what I did. I did, when Mahoney and I did the League Pass rankings before the season, I got those, I wrote those down on one column, and then I did a revamped, revised one on the next column, with biggest risers, biggest losers, people who stayed about the same. So taking from that column.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Only because Wemba Yama is hurt right now, I'm taking Denver with the number one pick. Denver was number two.

• 6:19Bill Simmons?

  Great pick.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  For my preseason league pass rankings.

• 6:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Uh, I think if Wemby were healthy, they'd still be number two. Right now they are number one. It's just unassailable. Like it's, it's, and the Jokic stuff just gets cra- did you watch any of their game last night?

• 6:32Bill Simmons?

  The, I saw that.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Did you see the one-handed underhand off the backboard floater? It was very Larry Bird, like, I'm so fucking bored.

• 6:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Let me catch this pocket pass with my right hand, not touch it with my left hand and I'm 14 feet away from the rim. And like almost half underhand scoop off the backboard and it went in. And it's like, it was like Bird shooting left-handed. It was just crazy. There's, and the outlet passes are out of control. Cam Johnson's starting to find his way. It's just, it's just a great time.

• 7:01Bill Simmons?

  So I only watched the highlights of that game because I got home from dinner too late. It was, and it was a good NBA night last night, but a friend of mine watched that game and said, watching Jokic slowly over the course of two and a half hours, become kind of interested in what was happening with Derek Queen and be like, all right, I guess, I guess I'm gonna have to. I thought this was gonna be an easy night, maybe not, and become just more interested in it. A credit to Derek Queen.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Just a professional basketball team. You never know when David Adelman is gonna be like, you know what? AG's out today. We're going Valanciunas, Jokic together. Let's see how that works. Valanciunas gets to go beast mode when Jokic is off the floor. I mean, like, what else is there to say? They're just supremely entertaining to watch.

• 7:41Bill Simmons?

  I talked, Legs was on last week talking about the all-time teams of, I have to go to the arena because this person's in town. And Jokic has been, Jokic and Curry have been levitating above everybody this decade. And Jokic is the clear number one. I mean, even like, what's interesting about this year's team is Christian Brown gets hurt. And it's okay. It's not ideal, but they can patch together four or five weeks where I feel like a couple of years ago, that is probably a bigger disaster. Murray looks better too. Murray has at least like his, his kind of zip pack.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  All right. So that's you. You're, you're up now. Denver's off the board. Sorry.

• 8:18Bill Simmons?

  We talked about Jokic so much, there's not a lot left to say. He was, he, they were my clear number one. San Antonio would have been my number two, except for the Wemby injury. Is this just where we're gonna be with Wemby?

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Can't miss. Just can't miss every game.

• 8:32Bill Simmons?

  No, but I'm saying, is this where we're gonna be where it's like treasure the weeks that he's actually playing?

• 8:37Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna go there. He played 70 something games his rookie year. We'll see how long he's actually out with this calf thing. Everyone's going extra cautious with the calf stuff, justifiably so. I'm not panicking. I'm not gonna panic. Last year was a blood clot, fluky, like, I hope not. I'm not going there yet.

• 8:52Bill Simmons?

  It's funny that it took till 2025 for people to be going calf strains. Look out. Could be more. There could be more there. It's like, why weren't we there after the 2019 finals? Shouldn't that have been the moment where we're like, calf strains? Okay.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  I will say.

• 9:07Bill Simmons?

  Now we know.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  I will say to your point earlier about, is this just where we're gonna be? You do hear people around the league, just front office guys spitballing about the Spurs. You can find people who'd be like, I think they should accelerate their team building schedule, almost assuming that his career ends up being shorter than they think it's gonna be. I just, that seems so early and dire to me. And they're not like five year careers. They're like, no, assume an eight to 12 year career and not anything more than that. You hear it, is all I'm saying.

• 9:41Bill Simmons?

  I've made that point in the past on pods and felt bad.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  It's out there.

• 9:46Bill Simmons?

  But, look at the history of the league. Look at the super tall guys. How many of them had longevity? The only one was Kareem.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  So where are you taking?

• 9:55Bill Simmons?

  Well, I was gonna say the case with Wemby for him to have a longer career is the Kareem case. Like Kareem, I think Kareem was seven foot four. Like, he was listed at 7'2". I think he, I always thought he was too much taller. Wemby, he's at least seven. I know now he's admitting he's 7'5". I still think he's taller.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Could be.

• 10:14Bill Simmons?

  I feel like he's at least 7'6" and I think 7'7" is in play. The thing I always worry about with him is the landing, when it's just so hard for him to stop his body when he's going full speed, that there's just things to step on. That's my biggest fear with him. Anyway, I did not have them second. I have the Houston Rockets. And let's do this, because this was, I texted you when we were on the train. Just heads up, I'm the most excited to talk about the Rockets. This was the team last night. I couldn't wait to do Houston, Cleveland. I couldn't wait to see what happened. I actually put a little, I put a little, cause I'm in a place with legal gambling. I put a little on the Rockets last night, cause I actually believe in, I think they're the third best team and have a, maybe be even possibly in the running for the second.

• 10:57Bill Simmons?

  It's been so fascinating to watch them figure out who they are, what they are. And I don't even think they've fully figured it out yet. But I have a number of, of things I'm enjoying. I'll start here.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 11:10Bill Simmons?

  Most fun I've had watching Kevin Durant play basketball since 2017.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Since year one Warriors.

• 11:18Bill Simmons?

  Year one Warriors, when I think he was really happy and invested in the team and didn't really care about stats, the ball, that he was just so happy to be in the framework of all of it. And there was like just real joy and camaraderie with him. I think he's been a little, as both you and I are KD defenders, he's a little up and down emotionally sometimes with seasons and situations.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Certainly the last two stops.

• 11:43Bill Simmons?

  Last two stops were awesome.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Did not go great.

• 11:46Bill Simmons?

  I think he's completely locked in with this Rockets team. I think he knows what they need from him. I think it uses the best pieces of him. He's not doing too much. When they need him in crunch time, he's there. When they need him to, to do a little more rebounding, rim protection stuff, he can do it. The passing stuff I think is the best that's ever looked from him, even though I know the stats are down, but I think the setup stuff and figuring out where his teammates are, he did it. They did a little high screen with, with Thompson last night that they've been doing more and more where Thompson comes out high and Durant waits and then just kind of floats a thing and Thompson kind of chases it down like a, like a running back on a screen pass and then just goes to the basket. And I was like, oh, that's something. There's just a lot going on, Zach.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  I, I'm enthralled by this team. I, I've been saving it for a standalone podcast because.

• 12:35Bill Simmons?

  I just stepped all over.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  No, it's like, we're gonna do it. We can do it anyway. I mean, they, they have the number one offense in the league.

• 12:41Bill Simmons?

  Is that true? They're number one right now?

• 12:42Speaker 01

  They have a 41% offensive rebounding rate, which is just unheard of. It's unheard of. They're absolutely gigantic. Like their starting lineup is so big, it's ridiculous. Now that, well, especially last night, they went Akogi on the bench, started the double centers again.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  And there's just a lot of dudes I love watching. Like, forget Durant. Everyone loves Durant. Shingun up a big level and his ability to just.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Because of the Van Vliet injury, their offense is not the most aesthetically pleasing and kind of needs a couple of guys who can just create from nothing and a seven footer who can get the ball at the top of the arc and just dribble all the way into a hook shot, that's pretty efficient. It's pretty rare. Like you gotta have a tight handle to be able to hold that.

• 13:26Bill Simmons?

  Could he do that two years ago? There's, because sometimes they'll give him the ball 30 feet from the basket and he just goes by somebody and then does his whirling, kind of that little Yoko G and then ends up with a jump hook or something. But I don't remember him being able to do that same way.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  It's like easy to take for granted these centers who can dribble in traffic with someone harassing them that, that long of a distance. I love watching him. I've always loved Jabari Smith Jr. I just think he's a winner. Amen is amen. And Steven Adams, man, just what a, what a mid to late career revival. Like he was injured, he was broken.

• 13:59Bill Simmons?

  What was that trade when they kind of just took him from New Orleans and?

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Memphis, New Orleans, salary dump.

• 14:05Bill Simmons?

  Somebody needed to dump a salary and he's been like, cool.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  There was an Adams Valančiūnas exchange between Memphis and New Orleans that was mostly salary related, but he's, I had him in my top 100 players.

• 14:15Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 14:16Speaker 01

  When we just did our, I just, first of all, you get to like 80 and then it's 80 to 130 is just, I had the beholder. And I'm just like, this guy is a one man offense almost. Like his offensive rebound, he's average, he's offensive rebounding, he's like 28%. He's a one man offense. He's such a weapon for them. I'm just rewarded and he's and he's like, I'll juice back defensively too.

• 14:40Bill Simmons?

  Not putting Jabari in the, in the KD trade was brilliant by them. Just waiting that out. And I still think that was, that turned out to be an okay trade for, for Phoenix. I think it accomplished some of the stuff they needed. I don't think they were going to do better.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 14:54Bill Simmons?

  But I've actually liked watching him on this Houston team. I don't feel like he's an afterthought. And in a weird way, he's the one that tilts it because sometimes they'll just have him out with KD and with Shangoon. I think they've even like, has he, they've played a little with the two centers and those two guys and Thompson.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  They started it last night. That was their starting lineup last night.

• 15:15Bill Simmons?

  They won't finish games like that.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Sometimes they will.

• 15:17Bill Simmons?

  They'll, they'll, they'll float it out there. But I, I think it actually works with them. It's weird to think he's, can. Basically be a two guard. He was not a two guard, but that's how they'll use him sometimes.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  Ethan was hurt. We didn't even see him.

• 15:32Bill Simmons?

  They're a nightmare.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  We haven't seen Finney Smith yet.

• 15:34Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Reed Shepard is starting to happen.

• 15:36Bill Simmons?

  Well, so that's the other thing. So there's this Reed Shepard subplot. And I think it's going on a scale of one to 20, it's probably like a 17 or an 18, how well it's going. Compared to where.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  I don't think I've ever heard of a one to 20 scale. I think he just invented that.

• 15:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's eight and a half out of 10.

• 15:57Bill Simmons?

  I was obviously dubious. Some of the preseason stuff worried me a little bit. But they kind of give them the car keys sometimes. They'll give them like stretches for like five minutes where like just you're in charge. Here you go.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  I mean, they kind of have to because they, he's the only guy they have that's really like that.

• 16:18Bill Simmons?

  That can get real fast breaks.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  A random Aaron Holiday game like last night. And.

• 16:22Bill Simmons?

  Who I've always liked.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  The first couple of games, he looked so in mud defensively, like just getting turnstiles by anyone and everyone. He's kind of settled down a little bit. Like he's never going to be a plus defender. He's always going to be hunted. He does make plays, but he has been a little bit more. Just I'm not rolling over or getting blown by in the open court every single time easily. And offensively, he's like profiled as a good player and he looks like he's going to be a good player. I think this team is. I just don't even know what to make of them. Like they're awesome. The numbers clearly suggest they're awesome. Their offense is just so weird. 40% offensive rebounding. It's crazy.

• 17:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's weird, but they really only get like the traditional old school fast breaks if he's playing. Right?

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:06Bill Simmons?

  Otherwise it's, it's a little slower and it's a little more half court, but in a way that no other team in the league looks like. The Shengun thing is, is probably the most shocking part of it. That and Thompson was doing a little of this last year with the top of the key, beating guys off the dribble. Almost like a ISO offense with everybody spread out, but he seems way more comfortable with it. And I gotta be honest, like, the team makes sense. Like, when we did the over unders, I think I went a little under on them. And I was just like, I have too many questions, right? It's, it was 52 and a half. And I, and I was like, I have questions about this. I don't know if Shepard's gonna be ready. I think, I wonder if their ball's gonna be too stagnant. When we watch them, it's just everybody doing their own thing and everybody else watching that person.

• 17:51Bill Simmons?

  It's not like that when you watch it, even though it's a lot of ISO ball, but it's, I feel like everybody's included. And then the other thing is, you know, the body language doctors just watching intently. I think they have great chemistry. I, I haven't seen Durant on a team like this that's like, they're very competitive. I think they love Shangoon. He's kind of a badass, like, he's, you know, he's, he's got a, there's an anger to him. That, uh, in a good way, that I really like. Like, he'll get really mad if he doesn't get a call and he just runs, he's a little like LuKesh. Um, but this is like a really competitive, physical nightmare of a team. And they killed the Celtics.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  And Durant feels like he's found a couple of little brother types that he really likes. Like Jabari Smith Jr. just mimics his every move in practice and warmups. Uh, and Reed, he's, Durant is clearly like, I'm gonna make sure you're okay, Reed Shepard. I'm gonna, I'm gonna compliment everything you do well. I'm gonna pat you on the butt. I'm gonna talk, I'm gonna scream when you do great things. He's, he's enjoying that role with those guys. Yeah, this team is, the stat, I'll tell you-

• 18:56Bill Simmons?

  Has he been in a, has he been on a team like that where he was big brother? Cause Phoenix was obviously not like that. And if anything, it was like this partnership and he's playing for Booker's team and it was uneasy. You know, from the get-go. And then Brooklyn was just whatever that was.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  You'll have forgotten about this as most normal people would have. There was a stretch in Brooklyn, and I can't remember if it was pre Harden or post Harden, where Kyrie was shockingly hurt or absent and Harden was absent. It's, Harden or Simmons, whichever one was, was there at the time.

• 19:29Bill Simmons?

  And it was Durant and a bunch of role players.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  It was like Durant and Edmund Sumner and like random guys and people, you could tell. I think he even said like, this is so much fun. I'm having most fun.

• 19:37Bill Simmons?

  Oh, it was the early Jacques Vaughn, wasn't it?

• 19:39Speaker 01

  I don't know, and people with the Nets were like, this is the most fun we've ever seen KD have. I, maybe that is something that reminds me of this, but not that these guys are, the talent is a whole other. No, I, this team is, I'll tell you the stat I'm monitoring.

• 19:51Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  So you mentioned ISO ball, right? KD is a great ISO guy. Shengun, we talked about his ISO game. Ahmed Thompson is like, can create a good floater out of nothing against any defender. They are, I'm looking at it now, 20th in turnover rate. And they're, they don't force a lot of turnovers yet. ISO teams generally, one of the benefits of playing that way is you don't turn the ball over a lot. If they can start tilting that aspect of the possession game to their advantage and keep the rebounding where it is. And they just become a team that's going to bludgeon you in the possession game every single night. They become very, very dangerous.

• 20:29Bill Simmons?

  What are they, I forgot to look this up. What are they in assists?

• 20:34Bill Simmons?

  Are they, let me see here.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  They are, I'm looking at it now.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  30th in assist rate, 30th in assist rate. So again, that should-

• 20:46Bill Simmons?

  That's another-

• 20:47Speaker 01

  It's not a red flag because it's the way they play. If you counted misses as assists, they would be like self passes, they would be number one. I mean, I, I, I half joke about it. They have like a Durant run, Durant and Shengun like do something offense, run a couple, run a set. And then the other half of their offense is just shoot and we'll get the rebound.

• 21:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's, it's weird to say this about a basketball team, but the way they play sometimes reminds me of a hockey team. Where it's just like, just keep shooting on the net and we'll just have guys flying in there, big physical guys trying to tip in or whatever.

• 21:25Bill Simmons?

  It's a really interesting team. Like right now in FanDuel, they're plus 650 to win the West. OKC's even and Denver is plus 430. And I think we, I think all of us, Legs and I talked about it last week, you did too in your pod. It's OKC, Denver, and then a drop.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  And I apologize to Rockets fans when I said that. I was like, I'm, I'm sorry. I gotta figure out your team.

• 21:48Bill Simmons?

  Right. But I think that going from Denver down to Houston.

• 21:54Bill Simmons?

  I think that that distance is gonna shrink a little as the year goes on with Houston. And I, here's the other thing. I don't know anyone in the East that, like, if Houston's in the East, that's the favorite in the East, I think. I don't think anyone in the East can hang with them in a seven game series, the way they're currently constructed. We'll see. There's some things that could go sideways. The Shepherd piece could go sideways.

• 22:17Bill Simmons?

  They haven't had an injury or anything yet. Like, there's lots of things that could happen. But I'm really, really impressed. They're tough. And by the way, we didn't mention Emei.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  So he's gotta be loving everything about this team. I mean, talk about a team built in his image of like, I just wanna kick your ass. Like, we want, we want you to, at the end of this game, have bruises and feel like you don't wanna see us again for a month. That's the Rockets.

• 22:38Bill Simmons?

  After that Celtic game, I was like, I don't, if these teams played 20 times, I don't know if the Celtics would beat them in any of the 20. Like, with the way the Celtics are constructed versus the Rockets, it's like, they'd have to make like 30 of 53s, I think, to win.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  And to tie it back to now, you watched that game last night. I thought that was an awesome win last night for the Rockets in Cleveland. They got up to like a 20-point lead. Cavs' bench goes crazy, gets them back into it. Alonso's doing crazy stuff. Donovan Mitchell finally gets hot, late third, early fourth. They cut the lead all the way down to one or two.

• 23:12Bill Simmons?

  It is like a 23 to three run.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Maybe they even tied it. I can't remember. It got down to one or two. And the Rockets, on the road, withstand that, get some big buckets. Aaron Holiday makes some big buckets. Shangoon makes some big buckets. And pull away for like, I don't know what it ended up being. They got it back to 11 at one point. That's like, that's a real professional basketball win for a good team.

• 23:33Bill Simmons?

  I've watched a lot of Rockets this year. They've had probably five moments already this season where they're like, need a basket. And then it's like, Kevin Durant's like, I got this, guys. Let me, let me just get my little 15 footer in traffic that nobody's blocked for since 2009.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  That's two. We drafted two teams.

• 23:52Bill Simmons?

  We drafted two teams. We're gonna take a break and we're gonna keep going. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel, putting you in control right from tip off with my favorite sport, even though I also love football and baseball, but basketball. That's right. You get to choose your reward. Play it safe. Go for it. Feeling bold. That's your move. Whatever your style. You are in control. We had House later in this podcast talking about basketball and he thinks the two undervalued teams right now. Toronto and Phoenix. He does not think the market has caught up with them. So go check them out. No matter how you play, FanDuel is giving you the power to choose your reward. Own your game this NBA season, which has been awesome.

• 24:34Bill Simmons?

  Head to FanDuel.com/BS to make your pick, get in the game and play it your way. Must be 21 plus, present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opting required. Rewards are non-mudragable. Restrictions apply, including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.Fanduel.com. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-79777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Apple Watch. Real talk for a second. You think you're crushing it with sleep? You're getting eight hours, you're doing everything right, feeling great about it. Well, using the Apple Watch is kind of like checking game film. It breaks it all down for you. Sleep duration, bedtime consistency, interruptions.

• 25:19Bill Simmons?

  Gives you a play by play of exactly what happened while you slept. No questions asked. My wife has been on this from the get go. She's studying, it's like the all 22 in NFL. You tweak a few things, cut back on like caffeine, maybe actually go to bed when you say you will. Boom, you might actually start waking up feeling rested. Apple Watch helps you figure out your sleep so you're not flying blind anymore. And you can find out more at apple.com/AppleWatchSeries11. iPhone 11 or later required. All right, League Pass Draft. We're going to zip through this now. Houston was the one we really wanted to spend some time on. Who do you, so you have Denver and Houston so far. Who's your third pick?

• 25:57Speaker 01

  San Antonio.

• 25:58Bill Simmons?

  I had them well, so we've had the same top three.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Doesn't need an explanation. Am curious how they get through this stretch without Wemby, plus Harper, plus Castle for the next few.

• 26:07Bill Simmons?

  Hot take, without Wemby, still really fun to watch. Get a little Luke Cornet, Olinic combo, etc. We got, get to watch Darren Fox kind of try to figure out who he is on this team. Castle, Harper, I like all these guys. I like watching them.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Can I get Fox and Wemby for a week?

• 26:24Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Just one week. But yeah, I mean, they're, they're still fun to watch. Keldon Johnson had a nice season. Sohan's doing Sohan stuff.

• 26:33Bill Simmons?

  If you had to put an over under for Darren Fox on this San Antonio Spurs, what year, what year and what month would you give?

• 26:40Speaker 01

  I don't know, a year and month. I was gonna say.

• 26:42Bill Simmons?

  Is he there in 2029?

• 26:44Speaker 01

  I would go no. I would say two, I would set the over under at two and a half years.

• 26:48Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  I think this is a great problem to have. I don't think the Spurs feel like this is a problem at all, based on what I've heard.

• 26:54Bill Simmons?

  Because they're not gonna win the title this year.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Everyone's rushing this whole process and they're like, look, we already have injuries. This is one of the reasons you get a second star. The first one gets hurt, you get, and these young guards are gonna have ups and downs and we're gonna be able to play. They're gonna try to play all three of them together. This is a non-issue right now.

• 27:11Bill Simmons?

  Do you think they're in their 2013 Warriors phase or their 2014 Warriors phase?

• 27:17Speaker 01

  So 2013 is Warriors.

• 27:20Bill Simmons?

  Surprise. Oh, my God. Wow, they won a series. Oh, they just got their ass kicked.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Is they lose to the Clippers in the Sterling year in March. I think they're even, I think they're 2013, closer to 2013 Warriors.

• 27:31Bill Simmons?

  That's what I have as well. This is fun. Whoa, look at us. Hey, we won a playoff series. It's about where we're going. They're two years away from being whatever they're, where their ceiling comes in, I think.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  And just, I mean, it goes without saying, but it's hard to miss a Wemby game because four ridiculous things are gonna happen in every single game. Even if he has like a random four, 15, 12-point game, he's gonna do four things on defense where you're like, that's not even a real thing that just happened.

• 27:59Bill Simmons?

  What was it Friday night? When they played Golden State? Was it Friday night?

• 28:03Speaker 01

  They played them twice. They had a baseball series. I think it was Friday, Sunday, Thursday, Saturday.

• 28:06Bill Simmons?

  One of the ones when Butler, it was in the last minute, Butler, it's a fast break and Butler, for some reason, decided he could challenge Wemby and take it to the rim. It was a huge part of the game. It was like, it was tied or it was a one point. And Wemby did some, he blocked it and it was hard to tell which arm he blocked it from. He was like a fucking octopus. And I, so that was later, I was like, I wanna see the replay, cuz I couldn't tell if he swung around and blocked it this way or blocked it this way. And then they showed the replay and it was his left hand, but I had no idea which arm he used. You just don't know. He's, he might have a third arm. He might have a third arm.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Uh, so yeah, I take the Spurs three, no further explanation. Now it's gonna get interesting cuz I, I think we're gonna have very different.

• 28:46Bill Simmons?

  Oh, not for me. I, the number four is clear.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Really?

• 28:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Move your mic closer to you so we can still hear you.

• 28:54Bill Simmons?

  It's the Detroit Pistons.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 28:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Talked about a little with legs last week.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  I had them 11th.

• 29:05Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  I mean, it's a lot of brute. First of all, 11th is way higher than they were coming in. It's actually, I had them 15th before 11th now. They're a bratting ram. They're not the most attractive.

• 29:14Bill Simmons?

  I'll make the case. And I don't think they'll be here two months from now, but when I talked about them last week, like, it was more like I'm really interested in what's happened to them.

• 29:27Bill Simmons?

  And they moved in, they have a couple of new guys, right? Robinson's a new wrinkle, Levert's a new wrinkle. But just what's happening with them competitively, what happened to Duren? Who, I can't wait to talk about where I had him in Ringer 100. What's happened with Cade? Just that, like, that's, his team's on a winning streak as we record this. And it's just not surprising if you watch them, like, they're, it's like another team like Houston, like, these competitive motherfuckers who just want to win every game, who want to, like, rip your heart out of your chest. And Duren, they'll be 11th for me in a month, but right now, the Duren piece has been fascinating for me. Like, for him to just become basically Dwight Howard?

• 30:09Bill Simmons?

  He's like a 23 and 11 night after night, like, just kind of brute forcing everybody. It's like, I didn't have this on my bingo card. I think he's 22?

• 30:17Speaker 01

  I'm gonna, he might have a more, I'm not saying better. He might have a more refined offensive game now than Dwight Howard ever did.

• 30:30Bill Simmons?

  He doesn't, and he's not as good of a shot blocker as Dwight, but I'm just saying, like, that force who's like...

• 30:34Speaker 01

  No, I'm saying he might have a more refined offensive game now than Dwight ever did. Like, his face-up game is really good.

• 30:40Bill Simmons?

  I agree with that.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Okay. I think he should be an All-Star. I haven't sat down and looked at the, God only knows how to even build the rosters anymore with this stupid new thing that we're doing.

• 30:51Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, he's in the running for 13th team All-NBA for me.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:53Bill Simmons?

  If we were doing it after 13 games, which we wouldn't, but.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  No, he's had, he had a hot start to last season too, and it faded. So, but he looks like a much,

• 31:02Bill Simmons?

  he's a different player defensively. I've always been a big Dern guy.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  This is way ahead of schedule. Like this is a complete All-Star level.

• 31:10Bill Simmons?

  Had not.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Explosion.

• 31:11Bill Simmons?

  I gotta be honest, I did not see this one coming with him. Like I think he's a guaranteed 22 and 12 a night now. Right?

• 31:18Speaker 01

  It's about what he's averaging.

• 31:20Bill Simmons?

  But I like watching them and the curiosity of just what's going on with them was, was number four for me.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a Pistons question that's popular around the league?

• 31:30Bill Simmons?

  Whether they should make a trade?

• 31:31Speaker 01

  Well, no, that we, we could, we could do that if you want. It, it is interesting that Troy Weaver, much ridiculed for his Pistons tenure, currently pre-ridiculed for his New Orleans tenure with Joe Dumars. He did draft most of this team, shoving aside the Killian Hayes pick, which didn't go great. And it, it is kind of interesting.

• 31:53Bill Simmons?

  I'm just marveling at this zag, the Trey Weaver zag right now. This is incredible.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  You hear front office people be like, you know, he did, first of all, you don't credit him for Cade, right? And there was a Cade Mobley debate in Detroit's front office that I can't remember off the top of my head which way he fell on that. Can't, win, win, right? Win, win. But number one pick, getting it right, you know, get extra credit for that.

• 32:11Bill Simmons?

  Mobley going one, I think would have been pretty surprising.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  A Star Thompson he picked, but there was, everything else he did around the team, like made no sense and put all those young guys in positions to fail. And then they change leadership and then they're like, oh, shooting, veterans, that's a smart thing to do too.

• 32:30Bill Simmons?

  But that's why he got fired.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  And then people are worried.

• 32:31Bill Simmons?

  He's had a bunch of big guys.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  People are worried the same thing is going to replicate itself in New Orleans. We're like, Queen's pretty good, Fears is pretty good, but A, your value proposition on Queen was like way wacky to trade the pick he traded. And B, do we trust you to actually put the right pieces around these draft picks even if they hit? So there's an interesting Troy Weaver thing. The trade thing, I talked about it on my pod yesterday. I would just, I would posit the question to you. If you're a trade agent, Langdon. You're thirteen and two.

• 32:59Bill Simmons?

  I'm not doing anything.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Okay, let me just ask you though, but forget not doing anything. Right now, no one's doing anything. The East is a little bit of a mess, like Cleveland's a little meh, New York's a little meh compared to expectations.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Do you read-

• 33:11Bill Simmons?

  New York's a lot of meh.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Do you read thirteen and two as, oh my god, are we like, good enough to make the finals already? And we don't have to do anything?

• 33:19Bill Simmons?

  Well, they could make the finals.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Or, or do you read it as like, strike while the iron is hot and this shit emboldened me to be like even more aggressive if the perfect player, i.e. Markkinen, is actually available?

• 33:35Bill Simmons?

  So Tobias has to be in that trade. And I think he's important for this team because he's a, everyone says he's a really important guy behind the scenes. I just wouldn't mess with it. There's, there's a Trey Murphy conversation that's

• 33:49Bill Simmons?

  not the Markkinen. I think Markkinen, as much as I like him and he's awesome, I do think it shifts their team a little bit in a way that I'm not, I'm not certain what direction. I know he's awesome.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  I think he'd be perfect.

• 34:01Bill Simmons?

  I would just look at like, my two guys are Cade and Dern. And if I added just an awesome, awesome, awesome scorer shooter and improved that side of this-

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Smaller scale move than-

• 34:12Bill Simmons?

  Like a slightly smaller scale than like, we are now doing the Desmond Bain trade with Laurie Markkinen.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  We talked about this possibility yesterday and I just don't know who the guy would be yet to like, fit that.

• 34:22Bill Simmons?

  I feel like they could add her on the fringes. It's, listen, we've talked about this the entire time I've known you. What are your responsibilities when you actually have the chance to make a finals? Should you, do you have to think differently? Even if your timeline, you think it's this, but now you have this and it's like, hey, there's the finals. We might make the finals. Do we just move this timeline over here?

• 34:41Speaker 01

  And also there's the question of like, so if you think you can make the finals as is, coming out of this ravaged East-

• 34:48Bill Simmons?

  I think they could.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  I, I, I, nothing is impossible, right? In the East. And this team is clearly a very good team. Do you have to begin thinking of- Should we think about winning the finals? And is that where the train stops for this current roster? Given who's coming out of the West? I mean, like, do you have to? Like, when you talk about your responsibility, when there's a window, the window isn't just the East. I mean, it's cool to say, if we make the finals, we have a puncher's chance. We've seen some East teams make the finals and not have a puncher's chance.

• 35:19Bill Simmons?

  This brings me to a new segment on the Bill Simmons Podcast. It's brought to you by no sponsor yet. It's called, What Would Sam Presti Do? Think that would be a good segment.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:29Bill Simmons?

  What would Sam Presti do if he was running Detroit right now?

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Uh, probably nothing.

• 35:35Bill Simmons?

  He would do nothing?

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:37Bill Simmons?

  He might add around the fringes. He would, I think his weird Sam Presti computer brain would see all the possibilities. Be like, even if we made the finals, we'd get killed with Laurie Markkinen. So why would I go all in? I'm only going all in if I can make the finals. I'm only cashing in if it's my version of like giddy for Caruso, where it's like, I'm now adding this and now we are ready to win the title. And I just don't think Markkinen wins the title for them. Like, you gotta measure yourself against this OKC juggernaut that also might have the top five pick.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 36:14Bill Simmons?

  I just wouldn't go all in. And I like the team and I think the team likes each other. But I think if you can steal Trey Murphy and not mortgage everything, I think you have to think about it.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 36:24Bill Simmons?

  Trey Murphy.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  The price for Trey Murphy is gonna be pretty high.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Not Laurie Markkinen high, but high.

• 36:32Bill Simmons?

  Probably two to three firsts, right? Like, good firsts.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I've gotta put in somebody like Ivy or Holland.

• 36:40Bill Simmons?

  That's why with the Celts, if it's just, if it's the Simons expiring and you can have 26, we'll give you the worst of our swap with San Antonio in 28. We'll give you an unprotected in 31.

• 36:55Bill Simmons?

  We'll give you a you go, as much as I love him. Doesn't New Orleans have to at least have a meeting?

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 37:00Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  So you picked Detroit fourth. So you love watching this team?

• 37:05Bill Simmons?

  Right now I do. I want, in a month, I'll have solved them and I'll have moved on.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Are you, wait, are you slightly concerned that, have there been any fights yet? I feel like Isaiah Stewart and Ron Holland are dialing it back a little bit this year.

• 37:16Bill Simmons?

  I'm so glad you brought that up, because it was part of my case.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:18Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's like watching a hockey team where they might mix it up. Who might be like, there might be a third line brawl in the third period in a five to two game. Because they do, Ron Holland's itchy.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  He, he.

• 37:30Bill Simmons?

  Stewart's itchy. Like, those guys are, are coming around with, with their chests out.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Those guys, both of them, can really guard. I mean, Ron Holland is a menace. Okay.

• 37:39Bill Simmons?

  Do you feel like Thompson went up a level two on that?

• 37:41Speaker 01

  He was my.

• 37:42Bill Simmons?

  It started in the playoffs.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  He was my pick for most improved player this year, despite the fact that his brother was the odds-on favorite.

• 37:47Bill Simmons?

  That, wouldn't you say that's a team that the other teams are like, ah, fuck, we're playing Detroit tonight?

• 37:51Speaker 01

  It's a great thing to be in the regular season, the oh, fuck team, like, oh, god, they're on the schedule now. But we just played this other team.

• 37:57Bill Simmons?

  So who were the oh, fuck team? That the oh, fuck finals is Detroit versus Houston?

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, no, I mean, I don't even know. Houston is the ultimate. Like, anytime Steven Adams is involved, you're just like, oh, my god, this is.

• 38:08Bill Simmons?

  Why?

• 38:08Speaker 01

  So much.

• 38:09Bill Simmons?

  By the way, Steven Adams, only 25 years old. I just read this.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  Somehow, 32.

• 38:14Bill Simmons?

  Just turned 25.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  32.

• 38:16Bill Simmons?

  All right, your team, your number five pick.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  All right. I didn't do this to annoy you. I'm picking the Lakers. I had them fourth on my list. I thought LeBron's debut went swimmingly, particularly on offense. And I'm just, I'm legitimately fascinated by JJ working the three of these guys together over an extended period of time. The star power is undeniable, and that now includes Austin Reeves. The supporting pieces are kind of interesting.

• 38:41Bill Simmons?

  Austin Reeves, who was 28 and 7 and 4?

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:44Bill Simmons?

  The first 12 games of the year?

• 38:46Speaker 01

  I mean, I, I was afraid of where I was going to put him in my top 100.

• 38:50Bill Simmons?

  Like, Austin Reeves' stats were better than any Paul Pierce season for the first 12 games.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  I.

• 38:55Bill Simmons?

  To put it in context.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  It, like, how are they going to guard? How are the lineups going to be? I think it's, the whole thing is great theater. LeBron being back is great theater. I'm, I'm, I love it. I'm all in. Not, not on the team as a contender, as a lead pass experience.

• 39:08Bill Simmons?

  I had them in the top half of my list. As you know, it's, it's always tough for me to look at the Laker uniforms, but I will say that LeBron, what he said I thought was very encouraging.

• 39:18Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if you saw that quote.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  I didn't see the comments.

• 39:19Bill Simmons?

  It was basically, effectively.

• 39:22Bill Simmons?

  I'm LeBron James. I can fit in any basketball team I want and I can be a useful basketball player and I'm not worried about how I'm gonna fit in. It's like, that's good. I'm glad he said it out loud.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  That's all we've been waiting to hear.

• 39:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  Other than, how about more of that and less of cryptic statements from agents and tweets and Instagram posts from Cleveland's practice facility? How about more of that?

• 39:43Bill Simmons?

  You weren't talking about the ringers, Rich Paul, were you?

• 39:48Speaker 01

  As you know, I'm a-

• 39:49Bill Simmons?

  It's my guy.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  As you know, I'm a fan.

• 39:51Bill Simmons?

  No, I, listen, I don't like the passive aggressive Lakers shit and we talked about it. I thought it was weird and I don't know why LeBron has done this and continued to do this for the last eight years. I don't know what would be a better situation for a guy his age than to have two awesome offensive players, rich man's Nemo's Kada and De'Andre Ayton.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Wow, Nimi getting an early shot.

• 40:17Bill Simmons?

  Nimi with more PR.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 40:19Bill Simmons?

  They're basically the same guy, let's be honest.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Nimi's good.

• 40:22Bill Simmons?

  Nimi's good.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Nimi's good.

• 40:24Bill Simmons?

  And if you just switch them one day and they did like the Nicolas Cage, John Travolta face-off, I don't think people would realize they'd switch faces for like two weeks. This is a nice team. And by the way, I think it's good if you're 40, 41 years old to have Luka Doncic just handle most of the day-to-day stuff.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Seems great.

• 40:44Bill Simmons?

  And this is like LeBron's one of the smartest players of all time and he knows he can fit into wherever they need him. The question will be, the end of the game will be a little weird. That's always been weird with the biggest guys ever. Even going back to like, you know, Magic when he came back in 96, that was weird. Like, should I take over here? What do I do? Larry Bird's last couple of years, same thing when Reggie Lewis was ascending, like, do you want me to, like, what should I do? That's the part that'll be fun. But I'm with you. I think it's a defensible pick.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Honestly, I kind of feel like Austin Reeves would have the ball just, you guys defer to me. Like, I got, I got this. Like, crunch time, I'm him. I'm good. Like, Austin Reeves is ready for that.

• 41:23Bill Simmons?

  You wouldn't think about trading Austin Reeves?

• 41:26Speaker 01

  For what?

• 41:27Bill Simmons?

  You don't think-

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Of course I'd think about trading him for who?

• 41:29Bill Simmons?

  Somebody awesome who just fits this kind of, like, are you, if Luca and Austin Reeves are your best two guys?

• 41:38Bill Simmons?

  Can you actually compete for a real title? Can you win four straight rounds? If those are your top two guys?

• 41:43Speaker 01

  I don't think this team can in this conference.

• 41:46Bill Simmons?

  But two years from now, the team they build?

• 41:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I mean, I think there's no reason why a team built around those two guys couldn't win. I mean, we've seen Luka get to the finals with Kyrie.

• 41:54Bill Simmons?

  You know what the answer is? Don't trade us to Moots, I'm just being a dick.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 41:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was just trying to plant seeds, because I don't like Laker fans.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, the Laker fans should remember who took the over on the over under podcast. Only one of the three of us did.

• 42:06Bill Simmons?

  Is that true?

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:07Bill Simmons?

  It's a long season.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  It is a long season.

• 42:09Bill Simmons?

  Luka, what does he play, 60 games a year? LeBron's already been hurt.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  And they're, and yet, and yet, they're 11 and 4, or whatever they are. 11 and 4, yeah. So I picked them, I picked them fourth, that's four, I picked them fourth.

• 42:24Bill Simmons?

  The, well, you fifth. So we went Denver, Houston.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  You're right, okay.

• 42:29Bill Simmons?

  San Antonio, Detroit, Lakers.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  All right, so you have the sixth pick?

• 42:33Bill Simmons?

  This is, you're just gonna be upset.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Why?

• 42:37Bill Simmons?

  Because you're gonna think this is a ridiculous pick.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  You're not, you're not picking Boston?

• 42:41Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:45Bill Simmons?

  I'm taking Charlotte.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  It's insane.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  Honestly, you probably need to take a week off. Like, just take, take, take a beat.

• 42:55Bill Simmons?

  I love watching Charlotte.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  I had them 23rd.

• 42:59Bill Simmons?

  I love watching Charlotte, I'm not gonna apologize.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  Charlotte, or do you love watching Con Canipal?

• 43:04Bill Simmons?

  LaMelo came back?

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and he sucked. He was 6 of 21 or something.

• 43:09Bill Simmons?

  They're just fun, I just want to see all the pieces, I'm enjoying it. I watch a lot of Charlotte.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Look, I get it. I've been tricked by Charlotte for the last three seasons straight, being like, hey, I like some of their players. I know all the names, like.

• 43:21Bill Simmons?

  This isn't a, this isn't a power pole, it's a league pass ranking, the heart wants what the heart wants. I enjoy watching Charlotte, they're 4 and 10, 4 and 11.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  4 and 11, bad, bad, they're still bad.

• 43:31Bill Simmons?

  They've been in these games, like, they're in the vicinity when you watch them. They lose overtime games, they'll lose overtime days.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Single digit loss to the Pacers last night, well, well done, everybody.

• 43:40Bill Simmons?

  That wasn't great.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 43:42Bill Simmons?

  I like watching Charlotte. Canipal, Canipal's been the best rookie in the league.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Yes, he has been.

• 43:47Bill Simmons?

  I'm learning about him as a player. I like watching the rookies, I like watching Edge Com, I like watching Flag.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Those people don't play for the Hornets. The flag and edge comb.

• 43:58Bill Simmons?

  I just have enjoyed the Hornets. In a month, I won't watch them anymore. But right now, I've been test driving them and I had them slightly over another team that I think you're about to take.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  This is the crazy sixth.

• 44:09Bill Simmons?

  Sometimes I like bad basketball teams, Zach.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  But like them at 18.

• 44:14Bill Simmons?

  My favorite Clippers team ever was the 2011 before Chris Paul team for to have season tickets for when they had Heavy Baron Davis.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:22Bill Simmons?

  Before they traded him. I really enjoyed watching that team. They were like 32 and 50. I had a great time.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  They also had, uh. Oh, yeah, okay. That's fine.

• 44:32Bill Simmons?

  I have a great time with the Charlotte team. I'm not gonna apologize.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  I do like Eric Collins. I do like Eric Collins.

• 44:37Bill Simmons?

  Well.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  He's a highlight for me.

• 44:38Bill Simmons?

  That's another league pass thing. When they had the Milwaukee game. Eric Collins had the broadcasting performance of the year. Con, it was like Miles Bridges went for a dunk and it kinda got blocked.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  And Con hits a three, yeah.

• 44:50Bill Simmons?

  Send out the con, yes! Went like fucking, lost his mind. Humdiddly dee! It was great. I love, I love that dude.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Well, that's an easy pick for me not to make. Uh.

• 45:03Bill Simmons?

  Go ahead, dude. Dude, go chalk, go ahead.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  I'm just going chalk Warriors.

• 45:08Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow, I had them lower.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  I mean, Steph Curry is amazing to watch. Like, like watching Steph Curry.

• 45:13Bill Simmons?

  Well, unfortunately, he doesn't play all the time.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  True.

• 45:16Bill Simmons?

  You know who's always in the lineup? Con Knipple.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  Is he, uh, do you?

• 45:22Bill Simmons?

  I, here's why I go and stay lower. Frustrating.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, but frustrating in a way that makes you think about what is the ceiling of this team? What are they gonna look like in the playoffs? What riddles does Steve Kerr have to solve?

• 45:34Bill Simmons?

  What's the ceiling of this team?

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Charles Lee has no riddles to solve. Charles Lee's just like, I gotta get through another season of this shit.

• 45:39Bill Simmons?

  The ceiling of this team is low.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't disagree. I mean, you know.

• 45:43Bill Simmons?

  By the way, do you wanna work on a documentary about the two weeks when it seemed like Jonathan Kaminga had finally found a home in Golden State? I was thinking about stylizing it, like, it's like, maybe it's 10 days and it's just day one, day two, and then by day 11, it's like, eh.

• 46:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  It was a fun 10 days, though.

• 46:05Bill Simmons?

  He's figured it out.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  But you know.

• 46:06Bill Simmons?

  He's Shawn Marion.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  You know it's gonna happen again. There's gonna be a two week stretch in January where, or December, probably December, because by January.

• 46:14Bill Simmons?

  When can he be traded?

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Uh, I think January 15th.

• 46:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, January 16th, he won't be on the team. Uh, wow. The Al Horford.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Slipping it in there.

• 46:23Bill Simmons?

  Oh, it's just my guess. I don't have inside info. Uh, possibly washed up Al Horford has been depressing.

• 46:31Bill Simmons?

  Draymond doesn't look to shoot ever.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Shooting threes.

• 46:38Bill Simmons?

  What's that? How many field goal attempts is he at?

• 46:40Speaker 01

  Uh, I'm gonna guess.

• 46:41Bill Simmons?

  I feel like he's just not interested in shooting.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, none of them are interested in shooting around the basket, other than Kaminga. Uh, Draymond's at his regular seven a game.

• 46:49Bill Simmons?

  Um, I did enjoy the San Antonio game when he tried to fuck with Wemby. I thought was probably my favorite moment of the year.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Following that up with the fan thing in New Orleans, it's like you'd.

• 47:00Bill Simmons?

  He's getting a little gamey.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  It's always something. It's always something.

• 47:02Bill Simmons?

  He's starting to get a little gamey. Um, Steve Kerr complaining about the schedule, one of my favorite NBA staples. In this case, he was kinda right. It was kinda nuts how many, uh, cities they played in.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  So here's the thing. I was in Minnesota last week.

• 47:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  They were whining about the schedule because they had Denver on a back to back. And Denver was rested and I believe, I believe they have that again in Minnesota at some point. And I'm like, look, guys, zoom out a little bit. Like, if your schedule sucks now, you're gonna have all these little cookies and other parts.

• 47:33Bill Simmons?

  The Lakers with two Utah games in eight days.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're gonna have little cookies at other parts of the schedule. It's all, it all evens out.

• 47:40Bill Simmons?

  The schedule's too long, Zach.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  Well, that's a different thing. We all know that. Everybody knows that.

• 47:45Bill Simmons?

  Everyone knows that, including Adam Silver. He doesn't care. He's like, wow, we can have eight more Peacock games. Let's get it to 80 and then two more Amazon games, 82 right there. It should be 76 should be the maximum and it really should be 72 or 70. And it would make the league better and make everybody.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  And everyone knows this. It's not.

• 48:04Bill Simmons?

  By the way.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  No one disagrees. There's no one, how you know you're right is there's no one on the other side being like, you know, we really need 96 games. The season's too short. There's no one making the other argument.

• 48:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's a good point. Cause the other thing is they're like, well, it never happened. It's too much money to give up. It's like, how much fucking money does everybody need? How much money does, like, the Celtics just sold for over $7 billion? Devin Booker's gonna make $75 million a year, like, what's, what's an acceptable money level for everybody?

• 48:30Speaker 01

  It's all these owners too that are worried now, suddenly get cold feet about expansion because, well, we get the expansion fee, but then we have to divide this massive TV money up in two more slices, 1:30 second instead of 1:30.

• 48:41Bill Simmons?

  That won't affect them for 50 years.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Oh, man, which gigantic pot of money is more gigantic for me? Okay, Seattle, sorry, you gotta wait because NBA fucking Paris is coming up next.

• 48:52Bill Simmons?

  There's, I said this on my mailbag pod, there's some Vegas momentum again.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Great.

• 48:59Bill Simmons?

  And I don't know whether they want to get an expansion team in there because they're worried about New Orleans in 2029 just jumping there. Or, um, or maybe New Orleans goes there, but something's going on in Vegas. That people are a little buzzed with the Vegas piece.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  Okay, alright.

• 49:18Bill Simmons?

  Could you do a 31-team league? Is that too weird?

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Sure, you could do it. It's doable.

• 49:24Bill Simmons?

  Have the imbalance conference.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  I mean, they change lottery odds once every eight years, 10 years. Change these rules, make them more complicated.

• 49:31Bill Simmons?

  We're behind schedule, so I'm gonna,

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Okay, let's go zoom.

• 49:33Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna take, uh, Chicago 8th.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Okay. Wow.

• 49:39Bill Simmons?

  I'm sorry, I like watching basketball, Zach.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, we all like watching basketball.

• 49:43Bill Simmons?

  Um, and I like watching basketball that is different than the basketball that I watched a year before, which in the last 25 games of last year, the Bulls all of a sudden became really fun to watch for whatever reason.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  They are, they are fun to watch. The Bulls are fun. They play super hard, super fast. I like watching the Bulls.

• 49:58Bill Simmons?

  Here's the Bulls. They're a boxer that has great fights with everybody else. Right? They're like Evander Holyfield is a great example of this. Like Evander Holyfield wasn't one of the best heavyweights of all time, but had like 10 awesome fights. And if you just like took 10 Holyfield fights on a desert island, even going back to when he was a cruiserweight, you'd have a great time watching his fights. Chicago, game after game, just a great time, great hang. It's the games are like, like the game last night, it'll be like 123 to 121 and somebody will have the ball with 30 seconds left with a chance to go ahead or tie. And, uh, and yesterday there is a Vooch game winner.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Huge mistake by Tomati Kamara. Love Tomati Kamara. Gotta play no 3's D. No 3's D.

• 50:43Bill Simmons?

  Good chemistry.

• 50:45Bill Simmons?

  A lot of guys that I've liked individually that I'm happy they're in a good basketball situation. And uh, well, their over under was like 32. They're gonna shoot over that. I think they're in the 40s. Anyway.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Should they trade, should they trade for Anthony Davis?

• 51:03Bill Simmons?

  So, he's from there.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:06Bill Simmons?

  And that can go one of two ways with these guys. Either they're excited to go home or they want no part of going home.

• 51:13Bill Simmons?

  I would assume he's more on the side of I'd rather not go home.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  I just, I'm interested to see what they do because now they, they, you know, they're six and one, six and six. Now they've won a couple in a row, so they're back to being over. As long as they're around here. I think inertia wins out. Let's just play our cards and free agency down the line.

• 51:31Bill Simmons?

  Is that your expert opinion? Because that's been the last 15 years personified.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Well, you would think if they're better than expected, maybe that changes the equation one way or another. But if they're just, who knows? Anyway, do I get to pick?

• 51:43Bill Simmons?

  What's their ceiling? They're not passing Detroit, New York, Cleveland. Is the four spot like in play for them?

• 51:51Bill Simmons?

  Cause like right now Toronto's 10 and 5. And they're the two seed. I mean, I just feel like the four spot's in play for everybody.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  The four spot's in play for everybody except your beloved Charlotte Hornets and below. But uh, I think, I think Miami, Cleveland, Knicks, Atlanta. I think Philadelphia, depending on Embiid, obviously.

• 52:12Bill Simmons?

  Toronto's in there.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think all those teams have slightly higher ceilings than the Bulls, maybe.

• 52:18Bill Simmons?

  Is there, did you, I didn't hear your pod yesterday. Did you talk Anthony Davis with the Pistons?

• 52:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I hate it. I wouldn't do it. I don't, I hate is strong. It's just not. I mean, we're sitting here talking how all in should they go? What, who should they give up stuff? I just don't, they have the number two defense in the NBA and they desperately need shooting. I just don't think they need him and he's not the guy that I would give up stuff for.

• 52:44Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna go further. I think what's happened with-

• 52:47Speaker 01

  I don't even get why people are bringing it up.

• 52:50Bill Simmons?

  I think what's happened with Paul George and Joel Embiid would scare the living shit out of me.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Well, forget-

• 52:55Bill Simmons?

  Trading for anyone with miles on them.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Forget that.

• 52:57Bill Simmons?

  Who's injury prone, heading into the mid 30s.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  I'm just talking about this year. I'm just talking about even if you frame it as a-

• 53:01Bill Simmons?

  Saying like, if I'm Detroit, it's not even a sure thing.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  I don't, I said I'm-

• 53:03Bill Simmons?

  You're not trading for a 26-year-old Anthony Davis. You're trading for a 32-year-old, I've had a lot of injuries, Anthony Davis. And I have to wear goggles for the rest of my life when I play basketball, cuz I got like, poked badly in the eye. I don't know, there's- The miles have added up for him. So you're a no.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  I just, like I said on my-

• 53:21Bill Simmons?

  I'm a no as well.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  On my Nico Fired pod last week, I went through like, 15 fake Anthony Davis trades. And I brought, I said the two teams that are getting brought up that I just don't see the fit with, or that I don't really get why they're brought up, except they have a lot of assets, are Detroit and Houston. I just don't like-

• 53:37Bill Simmons?

  Houston, no way.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  I just don't think it addresses anything that either team needs.

• 53:41Bill Simmons?

  He may as well.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Uh, alright, my pick?

• 53:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Knicks.

• 53:45Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Just, lot of pressure. Lot of pressure.

• 53:49Bill Simmons?

  Had them lower.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Fun to watch, good broadcast, uh, have some injuries now. Brunson came back last night, and an Obie still out. Love watching Josh Hart. And just the ongoing

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Tibbs fired pressure. How can you maximize Karl Towns, the dance of how often he plays center, how often he plays with Mitchell Robinson? I love Mach and Mitchell Rob- I love the whole Mitchell Robinson experience. I like the free throws. I like the offensive rebounds. Lot of pressure on the Knicks, and that makes for good, good theater for me. That was the seventh pick.

• 54:21Bill Simmons?

  I feel like we'll be talking about them a lot over the years. That was the ninth pick.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Ninth? Okay, whatever it is.

• 54:26Bill Simmons?

  Um.

• 54:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't know what-

• 54:32Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what they're missing for me. Maybe there's a familiarity because we had them last year, but I, they haven't really caught my fancy this year, unlike this next team.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 54:41Bill Simmons?

  The Hawks of Atlanta.

• 54:42Speaker 01

  There you go. I had them pretty high.

• 54:46Bill Simmons?

  I actually should have, if you were just giving me the no Trey Young Hawks of Atlanta, I probably would have put them in the top six. I really like when, no, no, no shots at Trey Young here, but I.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  A little bit, a little bit of shot.

• 54:59Bill Simmons?

  I'm just saying, I like the identity of the no Trey Young Hawks is really fun to watch, I think. I like all the long guys and the defense and some of their role players are fun. The Porzingis, just whenever he plays, just throwing him on this team. It's like watching somebody just pop onto a movie that you're watching, be like, hey, that guy. And Jalen Johnson.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  Oh, so good.

• 55:22Bill Simmons?

  I can't wait to talk about Ring of 100. That was another one.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  I'm feeling very good unless Porzingis misses so many goddamn games that it qualifies. Akongwu, I'm feeling really good about my Akongwu six man of the year pick from preseason.

• 55:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's a good one.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  Love that pick.

• 55:36Bill Simmons?

  Well, you talked about Detroit, is there pressure on them to do something? To me, Atlanta is the team that actually should do something. They have real assets. They gotta figure out this Trey Young thing. They have this giant trade exception where they could take money for a year and really do an interesting trade. And they have that New Orleans pick if they wanted to get like, if they wanted to dance in the fire.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  You can't trade that if you're the Hawks.

• 56:03Bill Simmons?

  You can't, but.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Could be the number one pick in the draft.

• 56:06Bill Simmons?

  You can't trade it, but it, it, it puts them to the front of the line of trade conversations of the best guys that are gonna be available.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Well, then that's just a who. Then that's because the New Orleans Pelicans are two and 13 and trending toward a season. Now, there's a world in which Zion stays healthy and they trend toward like a regular 32 win season.

• 56:26Bill Simmons?

  They don't have their pick, so they're gonna try the whole time.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so you're.

• 56:29Bill Simmons?

  Which we've seen, so they'll probably be in five or six.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  You would see two and 13 and be like, wow, they're right there with Brooklyn and Indiana. You're gonna be guaranteed a top five pick like at worst. There's a world in which that doesn't end up being the case, but that, I, I don't think right now, I don't think you can trade that pick if you're the Hawks. You're not good enough to trade that pick.

• 56:44Bill Simmons?

  Just put the top three out of it. Just don't.

• 56:48Bill Simmons?

  Why didn't they call us?

• 56:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 56:50Bill Simmons?

  I've met Joe Dumars. Just call it. Just give it. Just call three people who have no stakes in it. Just like, hey, what do you think about unprotected here?

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Can you imagine if that leaked out?

• 57:00Bill Simmons?

  Like they called you and I?

• 57:02Speaker 01

  No, like Bill Simmons stopped trade. You'd be the most hated man in Atlanta. They would never give you a credit. They would never even sell you a ticket ever again.

• 57:10Bill Simmons?

  This is an awesome draft, but I don't know if what we've seen from Boozer, and I want to see Boozer more, but I do have some questions about him as like, this is a guaranteed three franchise guys. I want to see Boozer more, but I'm not, I'm not sure I'm there with him yet with that.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  So what do you do with Trey then? Cause I, I have the Hawks very high.

• 57:29Bill Simmons?

  You know what you do?

• 57:30Speaker 01

  I like what?

• 57:30Bill Simmons?

  Can I, can I play act this?

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 57:34Bill Simmons?

  Vivek, it's Bill Simmons, owner of the Atlanta Hawks.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  I knew it.

• 57:38Bill Simmons?

  What are you up to? Hey, had an idea.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  What do you want? What do you want from the Kings? You gotta take money back.

• 57:44Bill Simmons?

  Whatever. They, they'll make a dumb trade. That's, that's gotta be your first call if you want to trade anyone on your team.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Do you want Levine?

• 57:50Bill Simmons?

  Cause he's under contract next year.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  DeMar DeRozan plus salary?

• 57:57Bill Simmons?

  Do they even have expirings?

• 57:59Speaker 01

  DeRozan is a semi expiring. Levine has a player option.

• 58:02Bill Simmons?

  The Kings somehow built this terrible team that also has no trade flexibility?

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Let's not talk about the Kings. We've done, we've done too much.

• 58:08Bill Simmons?

  So after Vivek, my next call would be the LA Clippers.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  I, I can't wait to see how they react to a season that isn't going well.

• 58:19Bill Simmons?

  John Collins, Bogdanovich.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Bring John Collins home, baby.

• 58:21Bill Simmons?

  Give us an unprotected 2032 first.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Former Hawks galore.

• 58:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Just give us a 2032 first. You can have Trey Young and you don't have your pick this year and maybe he'll save it.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  It should be illegal to have Trey Young and James Harden on the same team. You can't do it.

• 58:36Bill Simmons?

  Well, then you would trade James Harden, I think. That would be your next move. You wouldn't trade James Harden and Trey Young for each other in the same deal, correct?

• 58:44Speaker 01

  I just, I can't, I don't even, I'd have, I need about four hours to digest that one.

• 58:49Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Uh, you enjoy Atlanta though. Their bench guys are fun.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just, beat creatures on a heater right now. Um, I enjoy the Hawks.

• 58:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and I did a mailbag the other day and I said Gaia instead of Gay.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:02Bill Simmons?

  Do you know why I had his name wrong? Cause I haven't watched the Hawks this year. They've always been on one of the other TVs and not the main TV. I've never heard the announcers. So I thought it was Gaia. It's Mo Gay.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  I know it's Mo Gay. They love Mo Gay. Um, I am interested in the, I want Trey to come back soon. Because I want to see, okay, you watched this Trey Young. You saw the team play pretty well without you and it, and pass more and move more.

• 59:27Bill Simmons?

  I mean, what did they go, eight and two?

• 59:29Speaker 01

  So far, yeah, the ceiling of, but the ceiling of the non Trey Young Hawks realistically is like here, like pretty good team. The ceiling of the, uh, Trey Young doesn't adapt his game Hawks, but reintegrates with this team, probably like here. The ceiling where everything clicks and you get a Trey Young who's committed to a different style of play is here. And that's interesting to me. So I had them pretty high on my list too.

• 59:51Bill Simmons?

  Can I make a Trey Young point really fast before we go to the next one?

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:56Bill Simmons?

  Do you know what Trey Young was shooting on three pointers this year before he got hurt?

• 59:59Speaker 01

  I'm gonna guess 26%.

• 1:00:02Bill Simmons?

  192.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  It's low.

• 1:00:05Bill Simmons?

  He was taking five a game, only five games.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not, I don't, can I, can I not? He didn't have a great shooting year last year.

• 1:00:10Bill Simmons?

  Year before 34.

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:12Bill Simmons?

  Year before 37, year before 33.5.

• 1:00:17Bill Simmons?

  It's one of those things where you think he's this awesome three point shooter and he's just not. And we now have a lot of evidence because he's about to hit his 30s. So I think this is who he is.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  What's his career shooting percentage?

• 1:00:26Bill Simmons?

  His career is 35 and his best year ever was 38 in 2022.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  This is part of the reason why I like the, the mystery of what does it look like if he plays his game a little bit more differently? And some of the 32 foot pull ups.

• 1:00:40Bill Simmons?

  Comes a spot shooter.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  Are traded for, not all, not, he's always gonna take all pull up threes, but like two of those a game become two spot up threes or two passes or two whatever is a game.

• 1:00:48Bill Simmons?

  Okay, who do you got next?

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  For the sheer pleasure of watching Anthony Edwards destroy people when he's in the mood to do it, I'm gonna take the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's also to watch Rudy Gobert call for the ball a lot and not get it. It's a good time.

• 1:00:59Bill Simmons?

  You know, it's, you know what we're learning with our league pass rankings? I'm more interested in the teams that are either different than the year than they were the year before, or are just super weird.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:14Bill Simmons?

  Or, but you, you, like, to me, I don't even really need to watch Minnesota that much because I know what they are. I know what I'm getting and I want to like use my time to watch the weirdo teams like Charlotte. And then by January, I'm going to be moving back toward the Minnesota side.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  That's fair. That's a good, interesting approach this season.

• 1:01:30Bill Simmons?

  I also saw Minnesota in person and I just like when teams don't have a point guard that can do anything, it just physically hurts me.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Well, isn't that kind of interesting? Like Anthony Edwards is now kind of, is not kind of, is the official point guard of the Minnesota Timberwolves.

• 1:01:44Bill Simmons?

  But he's not a point guard.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  So does that?

• 1:01:45Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he dribbles the ball up after it was made basket or a rebound. That doesn't mean you're a point guard. You're a zero guard.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  And so I watched them with the eye of, what's the answer to this question? Do they need to do something? What can they possibly do?

• 1:02:00Bill Simmons?

  I think they're stuck with what they already did because they thought Rob Dillingham would become something and they don't play him.

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  They're playing him a little bit now. He's getting his chance now.

• 1:02:09Bill Simmons?

  Gonna have to. Let's take a break and then we, my next pick is worth a discussion. All right. Special part of today's episode. It's brought to you by Michelob Ultra. It's the official beer partner of the NBA. They know the best moments on or off the court are served cold. So we're going to crack open a little six pack. And we're supposed to be at about the biggest moments happening right now in the NBA, but we just did a whole podcast about that. We will have our coldest play of the day, which is going to be, I'm going to talk about six guys. We just had to hand in our Ringer 100 rankings. Six guys that shocked me. I'm going to bounce these off you.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:45Bill Simmons?

  That I had on my list. First, I had A.J. Mitchell in my top 100. I had him 82. Was he on your list?

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  89.

• 1:02:59Bill Simmons?

  What were the, if we had done the over unders with House and I had said to you, "By the way, in six weeks, A.J. Mitchell is gonna be in my top 85 for Ring of 100." What were the odds of him being, like 50 to 1?

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  Probably longer than that.

• 1:03:14Bill Simmons?

  I'm not even positive I knew what A.J. Mitchell looked like.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  He got in the finals, game one, I think, for a hot second, and it was like a complete disaster. And that was the end of the A.J. Mitchell finals experience. Look, again, like 80, like 75 to 150.

• 1:03:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  It's just eye of the beholder, prisoner of the moment, whatever. But those guys on Oklahoma, you don't get on the floor for the Thunder unless you are a winning basketball player. And he's been very good.

• 1:03:37Bill Simmons?

  Number two, Khan Canipole had 66 with B.J. Edgecombe 67. And I wanted, I always mail my list to House because House will tell me, two and one other friend we have, House will always tell me, "That's ridiculous. You can't do that." Like he'll, he's like my shit detector. Initially, I had Canipole and Edgecombe in my top 50, and he's like, "That's ridiculous. They're rookies. You can't do that." So I put Canipole 66. Where did you have him?

• 1:04:09Bill Simmons?

  Higher? Where was he?

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  62.

• 1:04:12Bill Simmons?

  Oh, fucking House.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  He's, he's really good.

• 1:04:17Bill Simmons?

  And actually?

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  And he's been consistently really good.

• 1:04:19Bill Simmons?

  So I handed this, I think, Monday, and he's had two really good games since. I think he's moving higher. He's just like our kind of player, like does everything, rebounds, moves the ball correctly, open shooter, tries on defense. Okay. My third guy, I'm gonna go all the way up to number 26.

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:04:40Bill Simmons?

  Which is where I had Jalen Durin.

• 1:04:43Bill Simmons?

  Where did you have him?

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  That's, that's pretty high, and I say that as a massive Jalen Durin fan.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  I don't know where I had Jalen Durin.

• 1:04:53Bill Simmons?

  So it was two, so you had him probably in the 30s?

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  Lower than that. I don't wanna say where I had Jalen Durin, because it's too low. I, I'm a big, like, you gotta prove it to me for a little longer guy, but he's top 50.

• 1:05:03Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  He's top 50. 26, so that means you have him over like Bam Adebayo.

• 1:05:09Bill Simmons?

  I had Bam Adebayo 27.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  You have him over like I I I'm giving the

• 1:05:14Bill Simmons?

  I had him over I had Aaron Gordon at 30.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  I have Aaron Gordon 37. I'm I'm giving the track record of guys like Jaren Jackson Jr. and Domantas Sabonis a little a little more leeway.

• 1:05:24Bill Simmons?

  The Jaren Jackson Jr. track record?

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:26Bill Simmons?

  Of five rebounds a game and just fouling out?

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  He's he's made all star teams.

• 1:05:31Bill Simmons?

  I at some point, you got to blame him a little bit for him making max money and his team not winning really now for the entire 2025.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  John Dern gets a lot of love in the rest of this podcast. You're gonna hear it all.

• 1:05:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Uh, next guy, fourth guy I wanted to mention.

• 1:05:48Bill Simmons?

  I had Denny Abdi at number 22.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  That's that's high. Yeah, that's high.

• 1:05:53Bill Simmons?

  I figured you would react that way.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  But again, I'm I'm more conservative. So I had people I kept like

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  proven veterans who have not played very much this year over Denny Abdi.

• 1:06:06Bill Simmons?

  Did it last year.

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  He's very good.

• 1:06:08Bill Simmons?

  He's even gone up a higher level.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  I had him in the 30s to be clear. I had him in the 30s.

• 1:06:12Bill Simmons?

  Just think he's can be he's proven to me that he can be the best player on a good team. If you had a good team around him, I think he could be.

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  He's very good. I actually while doing while doing these rankings right now, I actually had just in my head

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  because of where they are in the rankings in my rankings, they're near each other. It's like, what would happen if Atlanta called Portland? It was like Trey Young for Denny Abdi straight up. Portland hangs up. I which is which is like a kind of a crazy thing to think about, right?

• 1:06:41Bill Simmons?

  Think Portland's like, let's talk about that New Orleans pick.

• 1:06:45Bill Simmons?

  What's happening there? Uh, fifth guy I wanted to bring up, I had Shangoon 14.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  I don't I don't mind it. I had him 19.

• 1:06:55Bill Simmons?

  Okay. I had him one behind Evan Mobley. And I had him one ahead of his teammate Kevin Durant. And I said, I'm in Thompson 19, which means I had three Rockets in the top 20, which makes sense because I think they're the third best team in the league.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  That's bullish on those guys, but I think that's, I had actually Durant higher than you.

• 1:07:17Bill Simmons?

  You value the years of experience slash results when you do these lists.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  I don't know how to do the top 100. I'm new to the top 100, so I don't know how to do it.

• 1:07:25Bill Simmons?

  I don't know how to do it either.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  I try not to agonize too much over it because it could take up a whole week of your time and I don't have that kind of time. Shengun is one of my biggest risers from end of last season to this season. He was high last season, but he's sniffing the top 10 conversation.

• 1:07:39Bill Simmons?

  I had him in the low 40s after the season last year. So he's jumped the highest for me.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  By the way, defensively, you hear no noise anymore about like, I don't know, he's like another vooch, you can't build a good defense around him. He's like a pretty rugged nimble.

• 1:07:55Bill Simmons?

  He's at least figured out the verticality part and he tries.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, he tries.

• 1:07:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and he knows where to go and he tries. I do not think he's a minus defensive player.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't either.

• 1:08:05Bill Simmons?

  Last guy I want to mention, number nine on my list, right after Stephen Curry, you might have heard of him.

• 1:08:13Bill Simmons?

  Cade Cunningham. I had him ninth.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  I had Cade 12th.

• 1:08:17Bill Simmons?

  So I had him ninth, Brunson 10th, Booker 11th.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  I have Brunson eighth.

• 1:08:24Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  Cunningham 12th. Booker 15th.

• 1:08:29Bill Simmons?

  The, um, with Cade.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Which again, I don't, I'm not, like, what did you do with Jalen Williams? Hasn't played yet this year.

• 1:08:36Bill Simmons?

  I had him 12th.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  I had him 13th. I didn't know where to put him.

• 1:08:40Bill Simmons?

  It's Moby, Moby 13th. Still waiting for that last Moby lead.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  Might be too low on Booker. 15 might be too low on Booker. Where'd you have Maxey?

• 1:08:52Bill Simmons?

  20th.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  I went head over heels on Maxey. I just, I went prisoner of the moment.

• 1:08:57Bill Simmons?

  If you can play 40 minutes a game and run an offense and take every big shot down the stretch and just do it again a day later, I'm in. So that's what I had.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:08Bill Simmons?

  You good with that?

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Austin Reeves top 20?

• 1:09:11Bill Simmons?

  No, but he was. Oh, my God.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  I don't think that's I'm not asking funnily.

• 1:09:15Bill Simmons?

  I had him 32.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Oh, I went 21.

• 1:09:19Bill Simmons?

  21?

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  You just said if you can average 30 a game, he's averaging 28 points a game.

• 1:09:24Bill Simmons?

  I thought from like 18 to 33.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  Lot of fluidity.

• 1:09:29Bill Simmons?

  I was shocked by how deep and awesome the guys were.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Well, you also have things like, what do you, what do I even do with Kawhi Leonard anymore? Who, when he plays is like.

• 1:09:36Bill Simmons?

  I put him in the sixes. Did you put Joel Embiid on your list or not?

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, he made my list. Uh, he, I, with those guys, I just put them toward the end because it's like, I don't know. You're awesome, but I don't know what to do with you.

• 1:09:47Bill Simmons?

  That's it for today's six pack. If you want even more, go grab yourself a pack of Michelob Ultra. Plus they're getting you closer to the action than ever with a chance to win exclusive prizes, including courtside tickets and more Michelob Ultra. Superior is worth playing for. Enter now. MichelobUltra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 2526. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2025. Ends on June 30th, 2026. Breath. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at MichelobUltra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. Thanks, Zach.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Well done.

• 1:10:20Bill Simmons?

  My next pick, a team that um, I didn't think was going to be good.

• 1:10:25Bill Simmons?

  I've been surprised.

• 1:10:29Bill Simmons?

  They have a really, really good bench, which I didn't really see coming either. The Toronto Raptors.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  Hey, there you go.

• 1:10:36Bill Simmons?

  Um, I like Sheed in college. And I remember he fell to like the mid 40s. And he's just the classic, like, why don't guys just, why don't teams just take guys like this every year? He's gonna be a fucking annoying pest on defense. This is like, look at Chris Dunn on the Clippers, who's Chris Dunn's gonna be in forever. Just look for guys who are gonna be like Chris Dunn. That'll be like your ninth or 10th player in your team. You're gonna, he's gonna have an impact. Anyway, he's on there. Mamu, who I know you love.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  Love Mamu.

• 1:11:05Bill Simmons?

  Um, they, just in general, like they go nine, 10 deep. They haven't had an injury yet. And um, Scotty Barnes, even though his stats are basically identical, except the field goal and threes are up a little.

• 1:11:18Bill Simmons?

  I just, I think he's gone up a level and just from eye test, right? Is that like the stats say not really?

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  You are reciting what I said on my podcast that you didn't listen to yesterday or two days ago, whenever it was. It's like I like you look at the numbers and you're like, oh, same guy. Like I watch him play. I just see a much more sophisticated, engaged basketball player. I love the way he's played this season.

• 1:11:40Bill Simmons?

  Sophisticated and engaged is good.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  Unselfish.

• 1:11:42Bill Simmons?

  There's a physicality with him.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  Right decisions, guarding the hell out of everybody on defense. Flaner, I love the way he's played.

• 1:11:49Bill Simmons?

  He was one of my least favorite expensive players to watch and now he's off that list.

• 1:11:56Bill Simmons?

  I did not think, I remember Perk said, uh.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Top six.

• 1:12:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And I was like, that's ridiculous. They're probably going to be top six. I might've lost that one. I might be 0-1 against Perk.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  Long season.

• 1:12:09Bill Simmons?

  Long season.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  Long season. There, there is.

• 1:12:10Bill Simmons?

  The bench helps them though, because even if one of those guys gets injured. And I'll say another thing. Brandon Ingram, who was available for a year, can go get a basket.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:20Bill Simmons?

  I think we kind of forgot that it's like, I don't know if I'd be that be that fun to play with. He can't really guard anybody. He's got size, doesn't really rebound, but he can go get a basket.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  They're making it work right now.

• 1:12:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm dubious long-term, but with how weird the East is, maybe. And you look at the schedule, this is one of the things, I remember this happened with Sacramento a couple of years ago. You know, they play in Cleveland three times here in the first six weeks with no Garland in any of the games, right? And they've already beat Cleveland twice. They got to play, I think in this whole stretch, Indiana twice, Brooklyn twice. Everything's kind of moved their way. There was one, one game they played Cleveland, there was no Mitchell in the Cleveland game. I think it's like the only game he hasn't played. So I think they can add up some wins before. I looked at their schedule in mid-January and all of a sudden it's like the all-time gauntlet where they're just playing every hard team.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  I'm going to be there over the holidays and I have a great slate of Toronto games for the holidays.

• 1:13:15Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  Orlando, Golden State, Denver, uh, in, in Toronto over Christmas New Year's.

• 1:13:21Bill Simmons?

  So could they be?

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  Great time.

• 1:13:23Bill Simmons?

  Could they get to like 20 and 10 before the schedule gets hard? I think they could.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, they're good. They have it working right now. And I'll just say, just deep cut. I've enjoyed the last week of the Jacoby Walter experience. I have my eye on it. I like what I was seeing. You know, he and Grady Dick, it's always seems to be like one or, one or, one or the other, you know?

• 1:13:41Bill Simmons?

  Grady Dick, like crazy high net rating.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  The whole bench, Mamu was, last time I checked was like plus 18 per 100 possessions.

• 1:13:47Bill Simmons?

  Baji, that was a nice trade. Yeah, Toronto. So far, I mean, they're 10 and 5. A couple of those games are down to the wire. Schedule's been easy, but they're definitely a little better than I thought. Who do you have for your next one?

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  I mean, this, you're just making this too easy for me and I'm being too boring. At some point, someone has to take the defending NBA champions who have the number one defense by such a margin that it is absolutely laughable. And just, just for the sake of A, the Chet leap is kind of happening. B, it's just so fun to watch them get to a gear on defense where you can see the other team be like, we just gotta go to the next game. Like, we can't even do anything. And they're just, taking the ball, run. Take the ball, run. Block shot, run. It's just, if you like defense, it's just absolutely riveting TV.

• 1:14:36Bill Simmons?

  To bring another boxing analogy that you probably won't get. Sometimes there are these boxers, it's actually happening in UFC too. It happened with Islam last week. These boxers that are just awesome. And it's like, you can either, Islam in UFC like just, just kills everybody. He's like a takedown guy. And these guys always think they can like go stand up and that Islam's gonna fight. And then Islam just tackles them and they're on the ground for five minutes, just like getting worked. And then the round ends and the next round happens, the same thing. I personally don't love watching Islam. I would much rather watch stand up punching guys. But some people are like, this is the greatest fucking thing I've ever seen. And I think OKC is kind of like that. If you like watching, well, but I think

• 1:15:18Bill Simmons?

  if you like watching an awesome, awesome, awesome defensive basketball team with a transcendent guard, just day to day, just fucking kill teams, this is your team.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  Well, and the transcendent guard's a big part of it because they also have star power in the traditional sense of like highlights, jaw dropping plays, and J-Dub will add to that when he comes back. I just, their defense is-

• 1:15:40Bill Simmons?

  They're a nightmare.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  They are.

• 1:15:43Bill Simmons?

  And also the A.J. Mitchell thing out of nowhere. That was, I mean, that was the big wrinkle.

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  I like watching their role players play. Like, Kason Wallace is fun to watch. Aaron Wiggins comes in and puts in 15 points.

• 1:15:52Bill Simmons?

  This is the right time to tickle.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  They're 103 points allowed per 100 possessions on defense. And number two is 109.6. I mean, that's just absolutely crazy.

• 1:16:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was thinking like in the mid 90s. That would have been like 79 compared to everyone else. All right, I'm gonna take Philly just because of Maxey and Edgecombe. I also enjoyed Quentin Grimes. I can't decide if it's a constant trade showcase for them or not.

• 1:16:19Bill Simmons?

  It's obviously way more fun when Embiid doesn't play for them because it's, it's a bummer to watch Embiid.

• 1:16:25Bill Simmons?

  Crowd likes the team. I think the Philly home games have been really fun. Crowd's into it. They're like, we like these guys. The minutes with them are hilarious. You see Maxey's over 40 minutes a game.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  It's.

• 1:16:37Bill Simmons?

  Edgecombe's at 37 as a rookie. He's 20 years old. I don't know if that's sustainable. I think this team, I think there's a world where this team tails off. I think they have their pick, right?

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  Uh, I believe so.

• 1:16:51Bill Simmons?

  I, there's a world where this team throws their hat into the.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  I think it's top, no, they don't have their pick. I think they owe it to, uh, somebody.

• 1:16:59Bill Simmons?

  Do they?

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  I think it's top.

• 1:17:01Bill Simmons?

  Please tell me not OKC.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it is OKC.

• 1:17:03Bill Simmons?

  No, come on. Don't do that to us. I'm looking at my draft capital. Do you have a draft capital doc?

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  No. I just go to real GM.

• 1:17:13Bill Simmons?

  Philly.

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, to Oklahoma City, top four protected, yeah. So last year was top six, remember? And that was the drama. This year it's top four. So it's much more like, it's certainly going to Oklahoma City this year.

• 1:17:24Bill Simmons?

  So OKC. I think I knew this and I think I took pills to make me not think.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, nobody wants to think about it. The, the Clippers, Sixers. There's even like a weird Jazz scenario where if the Jazz are better than expected, Oklahoma City can end up with another lottery pick.

• 1:17:40Bill Simmons?

  It honestly might be frame them for some sort of illegal NBA thing where they'd have to have pick suspended time.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  You can't joke about that right now.

• 1:17:48Bill Simmons?

  Can another team do that?

• 1:17:49Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:17:50Bill Simmons?

  Can't they just like to use AI to fake some Sam Presti calls? Just take the team down? What else is left? How do we stop this team?

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  How many fanbases do you want to piss off? And you want to sabotage the Hawks Pelicans? You want to go back in time and sabotage the Hawks Pelicans trade? And now you want to frame?

• 1:18:07Bill Simmons?

  This is a credit to Sam Presti, OKC. Like, the only way to stop them is to frame them for some sort of NBA crime.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  If you're gonna quantum leap this, you have to go back. Wait, quantum leap was back in time, ahead of time? I don't know what Scott Bakula did in quantum leap. I can't remember. That's Scott Bakula, right?

• 1:18:24Bill Simmons?

  He would either go back or forward.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  You gotta go help people, too. You gotta go back and like tell the Nets, don't do this Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett trade. Don't do it. You gotta go back and.

• 1:18:33Bill Simmons?

  I would tell them to do it.

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  I know you would, but you gotta pick a couple of people to help.

• 1:18:39Bill Simmons?

  The ball more one, definitely like, don't put the 25 in there. Kawhi, just don't, don't put that one in. Keep that one for yourself.

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  I'm going wacky now. Would you have more to say?

• 1:18:49Bill Simmons?

  I'd say Philly, no, you're up. No, I just said Maxey and Edge come are worth the price of admission.

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  What do you even think of Philly like as a team?

• 1:18:56Bill Simmons?

  I think the identity of that team, which has yet to find its full fruition yet, will be a delight. When they end up with

• 1:19:05Bill Simmons?

  the three guards and people who run and Nick Nurse, that's gonna be a fun something. It'll be the post Embiid era, which is probably already happening.

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  You're still just like, this is a placeholder, this team can't do anything real?

• 1:19:18Bill Simmons?

  No, because nobody would ever take Embiid or George.

• 1:19:22Bill Simmons?

  Ever.

• 1:19:22Speaker 01

  I'm saying Embiid and George remain on the team. There's no like.

• 1:19:26Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you mean like, oh my God, Embiid's looking great. I think it's done. Did you, did you see him use the one leg? He was playing on one leg.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:19:36Bill Simmons?

  He was like dragging the other leg. Like Duncan did this for the last, what, five years of his career where it seemed like one of his legs just didn't really work anymore. And he made it work. It's a little different for Embiid. What do you have next?

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  I'm going a little bit off the board now.

• 1:19:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  Miami.

• 1:19:51Bill Simmons?

  I had them as my next one.

• 1:19:52Speaker 01

  Well, I saw them.

• 1:19:53Bill Simmons?

  They're fun to watch.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Super fast, fun, weird style. Hakez resurgence, Simone Fontecchio just shooting a million threes per 36 minutes.

• 1:20:02Bill Simmons?

  Andrew Wiggins, a little happier.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  Looks great. Bam's back. Ware's averaging like 18 rebounds a game over the last week. Tyler Hero's coming back. That's an interesting plot twist.

• 1:20:12Bill Simmons?

  Rozier. Oh, sorry.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  And Norm Powell. Maybe he makes his All-Star team this year. I don't know.

• 1:20:18Bill Simmons?

  So, talk about going back in time and stopping something.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:20:23Bill Simmons?

  John Collins and Bradley Beal for Norm Powell.

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Basically, didn't work out.

• 1:20:28Bill Simmons?

  Ah.

• 1:20:30Bill Simmons?

  Ah, as you know, I don't like Miami or their fans. This team is very fun to watch.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  Very fun to watch. They brought back the Miami Vice jerseys.

• 1:20:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  Huge.

• 1:20:38Bill Simmons?

  I'm really glad that Hakez is good at basketball again because I really enjoyed him as a rookie.

• 1:20:42Speaker 01

  Pella Larson.

• 1:20:44Bill Simmons?

  Pella Larson's interesting. And as you know, I mean, we always joke about islands. What warranted an island? Davion Mitchell Island. I mean, I basically had to fold it. It was done. It was empty. There were no, no people living there anymore, but he's back.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  And always, always frisky on the trade market when they have stuff to trade.

• 1:21:03Bill Simmons?

  I have Utah as my next pick.

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  No, they were gonna be my next pick. So we're now going off the board. Utah is.

• 1:21:09Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if you noticed, but I took Charlotte like seventh. So I've been going off the board this whole time.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:14Bill Simmons?

  Listen, it's the first six weeks of the season. I'm just, the heart wants what the heart wants. Utah, Markkinen's playing great.

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 1:21:21Bill Simmons?

  The Kessler thing, which was a bummer.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  It is a bummer.

• 1:21:26Bill Simmons?

  Weirdly made them more interesting because now just lineups and I don't know what's going on.

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  What do you think Markkinen is averaging points per game?

• 1:21:34Bill Simmons?

  He's 30.

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  30.6.

• 1:21:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  It's like, oh my god.

• 1:21:38Bill Simmons?

  Night after night, 30 a game.

• 1:21:41Bill Simmons?

  Kante George isn't my cup of tea, but he's been really good.

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:21:45Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if you're winning three straight playoff rounds with the best version of him seven years from now, but he's definitely better. I mean, that's definitely an asset for them. I don't know. What, what, what player from the past would you compare him to from a ceiling standpoint?

• 1:22:00Speaker 01

  Oh, that's, that's a.

• 1:22:03Bill Simmons?

  Like what are his, what are the best version of his stats someday like 24 and 8?

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, 20, yeah, something like that.

• 1:22:09Bill Simmons?

  Is the team winning?

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  I don't see why not. He's, he's a completely different guy this year in terms of his approach to the game.

• 1:22:15Bill Simmons?

  Really good. It's a huge win for them.

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  Look, Ace Bailey's playing.

• 1:22:21Bill Simmons?

  Ace Bailey started the other day.

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  Kevin Love's involved. Slow Mo's back involved. Uh, and either they score 140 points or the other team scores 140 points or both.

• 1:22:32Bill Simmons?

  They put a 150 plus burger on somebody last, last week.

• 1:22:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was an overtime game.

• 1:22:37Bill Simmons?

  Okay, Utah. Do you take them or I take them?

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  You took them.

• 1:22:40Bill Simmons?

  Oh, see, it's about to get dark.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:43Bill Simmons?

  We should speed round this a little bit.

• 1:22:44Speaker 01

  Before it gets dark, all right, let's speed through it. I'll take Cleveland. Boring but good.

• 1:22:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's just early on with no Garland, it's.

• 1:22:52Speaker 01

  Hasn't been that fun, but they're, you know. They're fun. Donovan Mitchell, Donovan Mitchell heaters are really fun. What an, what an incredible shot maker that dude is. The guy just makes three, both threes and shots at the rim, the degree of difficulty. And he makes it look easy. Like some of these pull up threes in traffic that he's hitting are like, it's a crazy shot for a 6'3", whatever he is, guard to hit.

• 1:23:15Bill Simmons?

  They're gonna get all their guys back and win like 15 straight in like January. It'll be one of those where it's like, hell, Cleveland. They've won 12 straight. They have, you know, and then that'll just happen. I have Dallas next, more from a train wreck standpoint, but uh, just for flag scouting. I don't really like anything else that's going on with this team. D-Lo, it looks like the uh, train has finally reached the last station.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  Had a big game last night.

• 1:23:38Bill Simmons?

  Oh, did he? I didn't even say.

• 1:23:40Speaker 01

  He did, and, and yet another, uh, in another loss, they lost at the buzzer to the Knicks.

• 1:23:44Bill Simmons?

  I thought that was the worst call of the year.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Which one? The foul?

• 1:23:47Bill Simmons?

  The, the offensive foul on the game.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  The hook on Brandon Williams?

• 1:23:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, first of all, they call that one out of every five times, but to call that on that moment when he's about to score a game time basket, like ridiculous.

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  Hey, look, you win the, you win the lottery from the 10th spot.

• 1:24:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're not allowed to complain.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  You can take a couple of bad calls. I, that's a high pick for Dallas. They are a rough, rough block.

• 1:24:08Bill Simmons?

  I just talking flag scouting only. No other reason. Just checking in with him, seeing what's going on, being relieved they weren't playing him at point guard anymore. Thank God. Thank you for not playing him out of position and ruining his confidence. Who do you have next?

• 1:24:23Speaker 01

  Uh, Giannis is hurt, but he's still Giannis. I'll take the Bucks and Giannis and the Kuzma revival, baby.

• 1:24:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, until he goes like 0 for 6 one day out of nowhere.

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  He's back and Ryan Rollins is.

• 1:24:36Bill Simmons?

  Ryan Rollins.

• 1:24:36Speaker 01

  Is the real thing.

• 1:24:37Bill Simmons?

  Did you have him in your Ringer 100?

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 1:24:41Bill Simmons?

  Cause I did.

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  I'd like to see it a little more time.

• 1:24:43Bill Simmons?

  I had him in there. Portland's my next one.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  Wow, they're the, they're, see of all the teams that's left, Portland is the correct pick.

• 1:24:52Bill Simmons?

  Back to my boxing analogy, they're in fun games over and over again. They seem to be in these games that come down to the last five minutes. I've watched, I'm not saying I'm watching entire Portland games, but I've watched a lot of the fourth quarters and OTs that they've been in.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  The Scoot thing is lingering, is lingering.

• 1:25:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's an injury that they always say four weeks and then it's like 12.

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  Just would like to see Scoot.

• 1:25:16Bill Simmons?

  I know.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  They're fun. Portland is super fun to watch. They, they're starting to get the injury thing like Sharp was out last night. Drew's been out the last couple of games. They're starting to just not have a lot of guys.

• 1:25:26Bill Simmons?

  Avdia was a borderline like 13 all NBA guy for the first five weeks of the season. I can't believe how good he is now. House was saying that this was a version of this was lurking in him in Washington. You could see it, but I don't think even House, nobody thought he was going to be a 25 a game guy.

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  That trade, I've talked about it on my pod, that trade was polarizing when it happened. A lot of front office people, I got it for both teams and just remember thinking like, this guy's good and his contract is crazy. Like Avdia's contract is crazy good. He's a very good player.

• 1:26:00Bill Simmons?

  That's one of those, if OKC was worse, Presti, he just, Presti would have gotten him somehow. Like, yeah, I'll take him. Sounds good, but he doesn't need him because he's got.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  I'm mad you took Portland because we've now reached the point where.

• 1:26:12Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's getting dark.

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  I'm not that excited on this, I'm excited to watch any basketball. Just, we're now reaching the point where I'm not that excited. I will take Phoenix.

• 1:26:20Bill Simmons?

  I had them next.

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  Workman like. Dependable, gritty. This is the team that Ishbia said he was gonna put together, that they're gonna put together. Tough, a team the city can be proud of. They play hard, they defend, they have a transcendent guard.

• 1:26:32Bill Simmons?

  Good chemistry.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  Highlight machine. They just Dillon Brooks is causing a ruckus at the minute he gets out on the court. They're fun to watch.

• 1:26:40Bill Simmons?

  Grayson Allen's been rejuvenated.

• 1:26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:42Bill Simmons?

  Booker finally looks like he's one of the best players in the league, who's not one of the top best players in the league, but that next level, he's back in that conversation again. He was not for the last two years for me.

• 1:26:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the Suns fans could settle down like a whiff.

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  Gillespie? How about Gillespie?

• 1:26:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Well, but it's like, on the one hand, yeah, we're way more likable this year, and we might have a chance to win between 35 and 40 games, right?

• 1:27:08Speaker 01

  The schedule is about to get hellish for them.

• 1:27:13Bill Simmons?

  And Ishbia, the chest is out a little, is up for the year.

• 1:27:17Bill Simmons?

  You did trade all your picks and all your swaps for the next six, seven years. Like, I'm glad you're more watchable, but settle down would be my advice to everybody involved, including Eddie Johnson, my arch nemesis.

• 1:27:31Speaker 01

  Don't.

• 1:27:31Bill Simmons?

  Eddie Johnson just needs, what a, he just needs to settle down.

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  Don't tempt Ishbia. Don't tempt him. Cause he's, he's, he's been quiet. He's been quiet.

• 1:27:40Bill Simmons?

  Play it cool, man.

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  But he has been playing. Have you heard from him for a while?

• 1:27:43Bill Simmons?

  No, just let the team speak for itself. It's a way more likable team. Your star is re-engaged. Just...

• 1:27:51Bill Simmons?

  By the way, Malliage doesn't play.

• 1:27:53Speaker 01

  No. Well, they have three centers, three rotation centers ahead of him, and they knew he was gonna be.

• 1:27:57Bill Simmons?

  One of them they should trade, cause there's a lot of teams that need centers. All right, uh, it's really rough now. I'm gonna take, I'm gonna take New Orleans next. Just because for the same train wreck for seven weeks of the year, just watching different, like, I wanted to see Queen, who only recently started playing. Fears is better than I thought, although, he's another one where I'm not, what you're ceiling as a team, if he has the ball all the time, probably not that high.

• 1:28:23Speaker 01

  We don't gotta worry about that yet.

• 1:28:24Bill Simmons?

  I'm just thinking like eight years from now, but he's better than I thought, and he's competitive.

• 1:28:30Bill Simmons?

  You know, Zion will come back eventually. This team could be higher on my next time we do this.

• 1:28:34Speaker 01

  Zion came back last night, um, and looked okay.

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  Still, it looked good. He looked good. He's a good player. He just hasn't reached the level he was at before the injury in the play-in game.

• 1:28:45Bill Simmons?

  Would you trade for him?

• 1:28:46Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:28:47Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  Uh, no.

• 1:28:49Bill Simmons?

  Would you trade Kaminga and a contract for him?

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  Okay, stop.

• 1:28:53Bill Simmons?

  Why stop?

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  I don't, I...

• 1:28:57Bill Simmons?

  If you're like a smart, good team with a great training staff, you wouldn't roll the dice?

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:29:02Bill Simmons?

  Would you trade Jalen Green for him?

• 1:29:06Speaker 01

  Would I trade Jalen Green for Zion?

• 1:29:09Bill Simmons?

  I have no idea what his trade value is.

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  Would you trade Michael Porter Jr. for him?

• 1:29:15Speaker 01

  Probably not.

• 1:29:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, probably not.

• 1:29:20Bill Simmons?

  This is really depressing.

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Jalen Green, I...

• 1:29:22Bill Simmons?

  Would you trade Anthony Simons and a contract for him?

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:26Bill Simmons?

  Oh, okay, we're here. We've arrived. Why not? Anthony Simons...

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  He's non-guaranteed. His deal is non-guaranteed after this year. As it is, it's, you know, has that weird thing where it cycles every year.

• 1:29:39Bill Simmons?

  Did I tell you, well, my next pick, oh, no, you have a pick.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll steal my pick.

• 1:29:43Bill Simmons?

  I'll do it when we do our next pick. New Orleans is the sad situation. The crowd has never seen more depressed or empty. Uh, it's really dark.

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  But Queen is good.

• 1:29:53Bill Simmons?

  Queen's good.

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  Like, let's zoom out. The main plot point is, Queen is good.

• 1:29:58Bill Simmons?

  The idea made sense.

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  And Queen and Zion looked like a good offensive tandem last night.

• 1:30:03Bill Simmons?

  Really like Queen. All the Ringer draft guys like Queen. Like, we all like Queen. They're just, they gave up too much for him.

• 1:30:08Speaker 01

  You know what's one small thing I really wish for the Pelicans? I just really wish that alleged shooting guard Jordan Hawkins could make more shots. That's all. Just every time he comes in, he's like, he just missed like seven more shots.

• 1:30:19Bill Simmons?

  He's been not good for two years.

• 1:30:20Speaker 01

  Uh, I know. All right, we've reached the by default stage of this draft. I will by default take a team who fell 11 spots from my preseason rankings.

• 1:30:30Bill Simmons?

  Orlando?

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  Yes, to now, the Orlando Magic. It's just been...

• 1:30:34Bill Simmons?

  It's awful to watch.

• 1:30:35Speaker 01

  It's just been not fun.

• 1:30:36Bill Simmons?

  It's awful to watch.

• 1:30:37Speaker 01

  And I thought the project...

• 1:30:38Bill Simmons?

  None of them seem happy either.

• 1:30:40Speaker 01

  I thought the project of the puzzle-solving nature of this would make for...

• 1:30:46Speaker 01

  Exciting night tonight watching. Um, and it, it just hasn't in part because they're struggling like they can't find the corner pieces anywhere. The puzzle's not really being solved. Suggs is like, I guess Suggs just can't play back to backs ever and will be on, his minutes are going up, but like, is he ever going to just be a full-time? Like 35-minute a game player ever again?

• 1:31:06Bill Simmons?

  They had a really, really fun game against Houston that I watched the second half in the OT of. And I was like, all right, there's hope.

• 1:31:13Speaker 01

  There's hope. There's, I mean, there, there's not no hope at all. They're over 500, eight and seven.

• 1:31:17Bill Simmons?

  Um, yeah, but you know who they remind me of?

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  This is a watchability rating.

• 1:31:22Bill Simmons?

  You know who they remind me of sadly? The year, Hey, Kyrie's last Celtic year when Hayward came back and you watched them and it just was off. And it was like, this feels off. What's off about this? All of these guys are good. What's? I'm watching this and something doesn't add up and nobody seems really that happy on a basketball court. And something's, what's missing? And you just kind of stared at it for three months and there was no answer. And then it started to leak out that this guy's unhappy, that guy's unhappy. This guy thought he was going to get more shots. I just wondered with Orlando, like, there's a happiness quotient with them that I, it's, I'm, I'm in LA watching this team on my TV. Like, I'm not an expert on this. I'm not in the locker room.

• 1:32:04Bill Simmons?

  But something just feels off with, from a basketball playing standpoint.

• 1:32:09Speaker 01

  I'm giving it more time. I don't disagree with you. I'm just giving it more time because they have found a way to get to eight and seven, which makes them a game out of fourth in the East. So I'm just, let, let's just see. See if the defense-

• 1:32:22Bill Simmons?

  Bane hasn't played, he hasn't shot well.

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  No, let's see how the defense, if it can find something like its level from the last couple of seasons. And it's starting to trend a little bit more that way.

• 1:32:31Bill Simmons?

  One more break and then we'll do the end. This episode is brought to you by Expedia. You know how at the end of the season, your team goes to Cancun? Sometimes earlier than expected, sometimes after blowing a 3-1 series lead, but what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness though, hopefully your team doesn't go to Cancun. One, two, three Cancun. Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save. Savings vary. All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down, ready to watch the game, only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows you are live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home screen.

• 1:33:15Bill Simmons?

  No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV. Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary. Well, there's seven teams left.

• 1:33:27Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:33:28Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna take the Boston Celtics.

• 1:33:29Speaker 01

  Shocker. I couldn't believe you took them off the board for me.

• 1:33:32Bill Simmons?

  The last watchable team, because the bottom six are brutal. Celtics, here's what's going on with the Celtics that's actually kind of fun. And I've actually weirdly enjoyed this season, but I'm not, I wouldn't recommend it for everybody.

• 1:33:45Speaker 01

  It's definitely not for everybody.

• 1:33:47Bill Simmons?

  Kada, a real guy.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:33:49Bill Simmons?

  And his, his advanced metrics are just jaw dropping. He has some of the best advanced metrics in the league. It makes no sense.

• 1:33:58Bill Simmons?

  Pritchard and White, have a history of those guys. Jalen Brown has been, I think, a really good scorer as a number one option. We'll see when they play some of the harder teams.

• 1:34:11Speaker 01

  I've liked Jalen Brown's season overall.

• 1:34:13Bill Simmons?

  I like how he's playing. Like, I was thinking about it, watching the, being at that Nets game the other night. He was like, really patiently getting good shots and creating good things. I was like, this guy, he's getting it.

• 1:34:26Bill Simmons?

  Ugo, I like, I like Josh Minot.

• 1:34:29Speaker 01

  Okay, now we're getting, now we're getting to...

• 1:34:31Bill Simmons?

  No, just as energy, random guys, but it's, the team tries hard. They're over 500 miraculously. I don't know how much longer that's gonna last. My dad not as happy, though.

• 1:34:42Speaker 01

  No?

• 1:34:42Bill Simmons?

  No, he doesn't like what Joe's coaching this year.

• 1:34:45Speaker 01

  Why? What's the gripe?

• 1:34:46Bill Simmons?

  Threatening to demote. I'm gonna have to have him on. He's really upset with, with Simon's yo-yo routine with Joe. I don't know if Joe likes Simons, but it's really upsetting my dad. My dad's like, he had 25 in the first half against Orlando, and Joe's buried him ever since. Makes no sense.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  I had this conversation with some people who are, who have come through here recently. It is almost jarring what a non-impact he's had on the team for 75% of the season. It just like he'll pop in a game and then

• 1:35:17Bill Simmons?

  Two streaks.

• 1:35:17Speaker 01

  And then it'll be like, he played 16 minutes last night, was two of seven. I had one scout who was in town last week, we had lunch and he was like, I think they should maybe start him over Pritchard just to see.

• 1:35:27Bill Simmons?

  So my dad says.

• 1:35:28Speaker 01

  If they should, if they can get him going that way and get him more engaged. And I know they're loyal to Pritchard. Pritchard's been good though. Pritchard's just a more competitive, feistier player than.

• 1:35:36Bill Simmons?

  The team will be better if they started Simons.

• 1:35:40Bill Simmons?

  But my dad doesn't think Joe likes him.

• 1:35:43Speaker 01

  I mean, the minutes.

• 1:35:43Bill Simmons?

  I'm not worried about this being aggregated because my dad turns 78 next week and I don't think people really ultimately care what my dad thinks. But my dad, who goes to the games and watches them, is very upset with Joe's treatment of Simons.

• 1:35:56Speaker 01

  Well, the minutes would suggest he doesn't have a huge amount of faith in him as a winning.

• 1:36:00Bill Simmons?

  You scored 25 points in the first half and zero points in the second half and don't get any minutes. That's just weird. I don't think Joe likes.

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  You did text me earlier this week that you wanted me to start the Jordan Walsh first team all defense campaign on my podcast.

• 1:36:15Bill Simmons?

  So Jordan Walsh did, had this moment against Maxey for three straight minutes. That was the most exciting moment of the, the real Celtic fans know what I'm talking about, where he just became Jonathan Isaac three years ago. Remember that Jonathan Isaac stretch where we were like, oh my God. And Joe has overreacted to it and like started Jordan Walsh in the Nets game. I don't, to me, he's like, there's certain guys in the league where you bring him in and you throw him on. And if you're.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  He guarded Harden two, a game later and decently.

• 1:36:47Bill Simmons?

  The one I'm really interested is SGA when they play them to watch him try to guard. Cause I, like on paper, the kind of guy, nobody's guarding SGA, but you want taller and you want to reach and you want him to hop around. I think he's like an elite defensive player. Not sure what else is there.

• 1:37:04Speaker 01

  Is the SGA thing, is that you trying to brainwash a Western Conference team to trade like two first round picks for Jordan Walsh? Like we need, we need SGA stopper for the playoffs.

• 1:37:14Bill Simmons?

  I will say this though, I'm glad you brought that up. I do think he has value for a really good team because I think he can come in.

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  I knew it.

• 1:37:23Bill Simmons?

  No, but I wouldn't trade him though unless it was like a stupid offer. I think he went from like, he's a G League guy to wow, this guy can actually guard real scorers. Like what he did to Maxey, I was shocked by. I think Maxey was shocked.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  Are you at all concerned that Shireman is on the fringes of all this in year two?

• 1:37:42Bill Simmons?

  I'm not seeing it with him.

• 1:37:43Speaker 01

  Okay, so he was what 30th pick, so it's, you know.

• 1:37:47Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna whisper this one, I'm not seeing it with Garza either. I don't think there's anything there from what I've seen so far. I wish him the best. Hauser's the one that, you know, that like for some reason, gravity has become the term of the year in the NBA. And everybody, you watch the studio shows and like gravity, they, this guy's gravity, Steph Curry's gravity. They miss Jason Tatum's gravity. I'm not buying the gravity thing. It is interesting to watch these guys who were awesome three-point shooters when all of a sudden they're in a normal basketball situation. And the percentages go from 44 to 33 because guess what? When you're on a worse team, one out of every 10 of your threes now are gonna be terrible shots.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:28Bill Simmons?

  And that's gonna go down.

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  The old usage versus efficiency trade-off. Derrick White, in related news, is shooting 31% on threes and 43% on twos.

• 1:38:37Bill Simmons?

  Out of every 10 shots he took last year, there was one wide open awesome shot. So it'd be like nine shots and then this wide open awesome shot that he usually made. And now that shot doesn't exist. Who do you have? Wow, so just for the people listening, we have six teams left. The Nets, the Wizards, the Pacers, the Grizzlies, the Kings and the Clippers.

• 1:38:59Speaker 01

  Can I pass?

• 1:39:00Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  Washington.

• 1:39:05Bill Simmons?

  A scouting thing.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  Just, just let's watch some young guys play.

• 1:39:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  Can A.J. Johnson get some minutes? Can we just go full entertainment? What are we winning? It's your 1 and 12. Can we give A.J. Johnson some minutes?

• 1:39:16Bill Simmons?

  The problem is they have seven guys who are the same guy. And I don't, you can't like play more than two of those guys at the same time.

• 1:39:23Speaker 01

  Why not?

• 1:39:24Bill Simmons?

  If you make me.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  Who's saying no? What Wizards fan in the crowd is being like, this is just, we can't play this lineup against this team? Those Wizards fans don't even know who's on their own team. There's like eight guys who know who's on the team.

• 1:39:37Bill Simmons?

  Does Sar do anything for you?

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've always liked Sar. Sar's good.

• 1:39:41Bill Simmons?

  Sar's good. Redraft, I think he's one.

• 1:39:45Speaker 01

  It's not a great draft.

• 1:39:46Bill Simmons?

  It's not a great draft, but I think he's one. Would you rather have Reese Sache or Shepard?

• 1:39:52Speaker 01

  Shepard.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  Just for the upside right now. I think Reese Sache is a stone cold lock to be a good rotation player, good starter. I don't, I don't know. There's a lot of.

• 1:40:05Bill Simmons?

  I think from, from what I've seen this year and his age, I think, and both of them are young, I think Shepard, I think I would have him second. But he would have been like 10th if we did this two months ago.

• 1:40:17Speaker 01

  Where would you have T. John Solana of your Charlotte Hornets?

• 1:40:19Bill Simmons?

  There's, there's some, there's some moments.

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  In the G League?

• 1:40:24Bill Simmons?

  There's some moments.

• 1:40:26Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm taking Washington over all these other teams. Trey J, just, you know, they aren't.

• 1:40:32Bill Simmons?

  You know what Reed Shepard needs to, he needs to, they need to show him like 100 hours of John Stockton being a dick footage.

• 1:40:42Bill Simmons?

  John Stockton setting hard screens and putting his elbow in, John Stockton tripping dudes. Like, he needs to embrace his asshole John Stockton side. That's the next thing for him.

• 1:40:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:52Bill Simmons?

  Feisty, I know I'm undersized, but I'm, I'll fight you.

• 1:40:57Speaker 01

  This is the.

• 1:40:57Bill Simmons?

  I always feel like John Stockton never got enough credit for that, just like a mean spirited player.

• 1:41:04Speaker 01

  We're at the point of the show where if you want to put CJ McCollum in a fake trade, this is the time to do it.

• 1:41:09Bill Simmons?

  I know, poor CJ. I think I've put him in more fake trades than any player in the history of the league.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  He certainly thinks you have.

• 1:41:15Bill Simmons?

  I know, but most of the time it was justified and he did get traded.

• 1:41:19Bill Simmons?

  It's tough. I don't, I don't see it. I think he's a buyout guy and I think teams would just go like, we'll get him in the end of February.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  Sadly, I feel the same way about Middleton, who looks like he's moving in molasses and Corey Kispert suddenly is a non-factor. The veterans are not doing a ton for the young guys.

• 1:41:35Bill Simmons?

  I think this might be the way it plays out with the Celtics, with Simons. It might be a buyout thing where.

• 1:41:44Speaker 01

  That would be disappointing from their perspective.

• 1:41:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but it might be how it plays out considering his minutes have been yanked around. I also don't think, I still think a lot of teams have the $27 million salary spot to flip.

• 1:41:56Speaker 01

  I know who you're taking next, by the way. I know, I know what you're gonna do.

• 1:42:00Bill Simmons?

  I'm taking the Clippers.

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:42:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:03Speaker 01

  It's amazing how I had done 27th and they were actually 21st in my preseason. So I was not excited to watch them off the jump. I had them 27th among these dregs and I was like, I didn't even think that hard about it. It's just not fun to watch.

• 1:42:18Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:42:18Speaker 01

  It's just, it's a chore.

• 1:42:20Bill Simmons?

  I burned out on Harden like six years ago, so that part's not great, but I couldn't put them below any of the next four teams.

• 1:42:28Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what the Clippers do. They don't have their pick, as we mentioned nine times.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  Well, this, but that is, they are one of the, they don't, not only do they not have their pick, they have this whole thing hanging over them. Right? Like, what's gonna happen? Is this investigation gonna amount to anything? What's gonna happen?

• 1:42:45Speaker 01

  Derek Jones Jr. out.

• 1:42:46Bill Simmons?

  I don't think, I honestly don't think they care. I think Ballmer is be like, whatever. I mean, if they get, they don't even have any picks to be penalized for them. They get fined, Ballmer's rich.

• 1:42:57Speaker 01

  They do have.

• 1:42:57Bill Simmons?

  Gets banned from, what are they gonna take their 2032 first?

• 1:43:01Speaker 01

  But that would really be devastating for them if they did.

• 1:43:04Bill Simmons?

  He's doing that.

• 1:43:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:43:06Bill Simmons?

  I think it could be a huge fine and he's banned from going to games for a year. Something like that.

• 1:43:13Speaker 01

  I do, I do think he cares that they are, I mean, I, I said this earlier in the week, the best thing they have going for them is they're 11th. The four teams below them are in just as much, if not a worse situation, just as much shit as they are.

• 1:43:28Bill Simmons?

  In these games, they're not getting killed.

• 1:43:30Speaker 01

  Utah's five and nine, Portland's now six and nine, the Sun's schedule is about to toughen up. It's like by default, they should be a play in team. Like they shouldn't have to do anything crazy to make the play in.

• 1:43:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:40Speaker 01

  But, um.

• 1:43:41Bill Simmons?

  And they have these two big expiring contracts that they can take a swing.

• 1:43:45Speaker 01

  If they're bad, like this bad, they're gonna do something because as much as you think they might be realistic about what their chances actually were, and I think they were pretty realistic. I don't think they expected anything like this. I mean, this is, and you throw in the Beal disaster, Jones injury. The, it, you know.

• 1:44:01Bill Simmons?

  Well, look at their losses.

• 1:44:04Bill Simmons?

  Utah opening night, not great.

• 1:44:06Speaker 01

  Awful. It's bad, it's bad in a loss for an allegedly good team, as you'll see.

• 1:44:11Bill Simmons?

  At Golden State. Home Miami, lost by one.

• 1:44:17Bill Simmons?

  OKC, no shame in that.

• 1:44:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:44:19Bill Simmons?

  At Phoenix, mildly shameful.

• 1:44:22Speaker 01

  Got swept by Phoenix, that was the.

• 1:44:23Bill Simmons?

  Home for Phoenix, now a little shamey. Hawks, not surprised. Denver, not surprised. Beat Dallas in two OTs. And lost to the Celtics and Sixers by three and two. And games I watched, both of those fourth quarters, those games were close.

• 1:44:38Speaker 01

  The Celtics one was kind of one of those miracle. It was like a 10-point game and then they just went three fouls.

• 1:44:44Bill Simmons?

  Around, around, around. They did, okay. I don't know, I don't think it's as, I don't think it's as bleak as it seems, but they do have the next four on the road. And two home, and then the next five on the road, ending with Minnesota and OKC, so you're right. But the ship might have sailed.

• 1:45:03Speaker 01

  I don't want to pick anybody else.

• 1:45:04Bill Simmons?

  I would say they're number one for panic trade for me, though.

• 1:45:07Speaker 01

  I mean, like, I put him, I made a fake Anthony Davis trade for them right away, and just because.

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  I just think this is untenable for them to be.

• 1:45:16Bill Simmons?

  Zubats in that?

• 1:45:16Speaker 01

  No, I think they keep Zubats.

• 1:45:19Bill Simmons?

  Why do I do that if I'm Dallas?

• 1:45:21Speaker 01

  What are they getting? I don't, this, I don't think there's like a big, I don't, I said, I don't think they're gonna get. A motherload for Anthony Davis. The contract and the looming.

• 1:45:31Bill Simmons?

  Would you take Zubats and John Collins in some swap in nine years from now, and that's it? I don't even know if that's legal in the cap, but something of that vicinity.

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  I would love to get.

• 1:45:43Bill Simmons?

  Would you rather have Zubats at the price he's at with coming up for a new contract, or Anthony Davis?

• 1:45:49Speaker 01

  The zoo. I think.

• 1:45:51Bill Simmons?

  Right. So, but that would be the panic trade. So maybe it's just Zubats and John Collins for Anthony Davis.

• 1:45:55Speaker 01

  See, that, I feel like they just don't think that does enough for them. It has to be, has to be more additive than that.

• 1:46:01Bill Simmons?

  All right, who do you have with, uh, the 27th pick in our draft?

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  I gotta cross off the Clippers. Okay. Uh, I guess I will go Memphis.

• 1:46:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  Just for the theater of.

• 1:46:14Bill Simmons?

  John Morant.

• 1:46:14Speaker 01

  Is this gonna be a DEFCON 1 Ja Toons-out-the-coach game, or a DEFCON 3 Ja, Ja Toons-out-the-coach game? And how is that gonna, uh, uh, you know, manifest itself in the game?

• 1:46:25Bill Simmons?

  I don't know how this strategy.

• 1:46:26Speaker 01

  Edie's back, Edie's back. I like, I'm interested, I'm interested in Edie.

• 1:46:30Bill Simmons?

  I don't understand how this is a strategy that succeeds.

• 1:46:35Bill Simmons?

  Like, if there was some podcaster that was trying to...

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  Oh, and Cedric Cowan, I should have mentioned that right off the bat. That guy's...

• 1:46:44Bill Simmons?

  Good draft. There's some podcaster that's like, "I don't want to be here anymore. I'd like to go to a place like The Ringer." And we listen to the podcast and he was just mailing it in and acting crazy on the podcast and doing weird shit.

• 1:46:56Speaker 01

  I'm banking this in my head for like a year or two from now.

• 1:46:58Bill Simmons?

  No, I just wouldn't be like, "Oh, man, I hope that guy becomes available." We could turn him around. Like, people have scouts at these games watching, you know, Ja Morant just not look like he gives a shit.

• 1:47:12Speaker 01

  Well, how about Ja Morant shooting like 30% for the season?

• 1:47:16Bill Simmons?

  How about the history of super explosive guards as they hit their late twenties who have had a lot of injuries? Like, there's red flags all over the place, not to mention all the other shit that happened with them. I don't... I think it's gonna be a hard-won trade. I have Sacramento as my next team.

• 1:47:31Bill Simmons?

  There's no reason other than there's only a couple of teams left. I do like watching Doug Christie coaching. I think it's been pretty funny. I like the shots of Vivek just silently stewing in his courtside seat. It's been hilarious.

• 1:47:44Speaker 01

  I wonder if he's sitting there thinking...

• 1:47:48Speaker 01

  I wonder if he's so delusional

• 1:47:51Speaker 01

  that he's sitting there when he's stewing like that, the stewing is not, "Boy, our roster sucks." And I made some bad calls. It's like, "Man, if we just fucking coach, if we just had a better fucking coach." You know, like, maybe I should go...

• 1:48:05Bill Simmons?

  They like Doug Christie.

• 1:48:06Speaker 01

  Who could I go back? Is Jaeger available? Is Michael Malone available? Who did we fire? Who did we fire that's available? Because I think this team, like, there's something here. If we just had the right coach to get it where 3 and 12, with a minus 12-point differential. But if we just tweak the offense a little bit, tweak the sub-patterns...

• 1:48:26Bill Simmons?

  No, I think it's more like when Keegan Murray comes back, this is all gonna fall into place.

• 1:48:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, well, we're...

• 1:48:31Bill Simmons?

  We just need Keegan back.

• 1:48:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you think in the coaches' meetings before the game, they just pick a number out of a hat and that's how many minutes Keon Ellis is gonna play on that particular?

• 1:48:43Bill Simmons?

  I would have already traded for him.

• 1:48:44Speaker 01

  Seven minutes tonight.

• 1:48:45Bill Simmons?

  I would have already traded for him.

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  Tonight, 32 minutes and he starts.

• 1:48:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:51Speaker 01

  Great train wreck potential. All right, then the last two picks are Indiana and Brooklyn.

• 1:48:56Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm up. I have two picks left.

• 1:48:58Speaker 01

  Didn't you just pick the Kings?

• 1:48:59Bill Simmons?

  No, we have three picks left. You took the Kings.

• 1:49:02Speaker 01

  Oh, I took Memphis. You took the Kings.

• 1:49:05Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I did take the Kings. There's two picks left then.

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  I will just honor the defending Eastern Conference Champions by saving them the indignity of not going last.

• 1:49:15Bill Simmons?

  I didn't realize that they moved the tanks to Indy until like a couple days after it happened. That the tanks got brought into the state of Indiana.

• 1:49:25Speaker 01

  Well, they're getting healthier now, though.

• 1:49:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think they've made their decision on what they want to be this season, and I'd fully support it.

• 1:49:33Speaker 01

  And by the way.

• 1:49:34Bill Simmons?

  There's no better tanking situation ever than the most beloved finals loser we've probably ever had. With the start to finish awesome season, tragic ending. Iconic all-time Pacers team. This would be the most beloved Pacers team they've ever had. And now they get to tank. It'll be over in five months, right? April 10th, it's over. You can start watching college now. Enjoy yourselves, guys.

• 1:50:03Speaker 01

  I mean, look, you and I are captains of the Tim Duncan is historically underrated brigade. Like, the Tim Duncan is a top whatever player.

• 1:50:13Bill Simmons?

  Every year we lose people.

• 1:50:15Speaker 01

  I don't say his name in vain. I don't mean to even bring up his name in this way. This could be the best single-season tanking scenario since the Spurs got Tim Duncan. This team coming back.

• 1:50:30Bill Simmons?

  You mean like a team being able to get a major guy?

• 1:50:32Speaker 01

  A very clearly good team.

• 1:50:34Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:50:35Speaker 01

  That is decimated, takes a gap year, miraculously gets its own 2026 pick back in a trade at the 2025 draft.

• 1:50:43Bill Simmons?

  During the finals.

• 1:50:44Speaker 01

  From, yeah, that's right.

• 1:50:45Bill Simmons?

  The trade they made during the finals when we were together.

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  Not knowing that Tyrese Halliburton is about to get injured and that whole season is going to go up in smoke for them. Gets everyone healthy. They're not old, and they're just like, well, just add. Potentially the number one pick, the number three pick, the number four pick, a guy who can probably come in and give them real minutes next year. They're gonna have to solve the center position, all that, but like, it's honestly a pretty, like, if, if you're gonna suffer that kind of blow, and it was horrible, and like, it still gets talked about every time I go out for lunch, or drinks, or coffee with anybody, that injury and the what if of all that, and that miraculous playoff run, it's a pretty good, I mean, this is an objectively like, people haven't wrapped their minds around it yet, but the Pacers are gonna, the finals Pacers are going to come back, sans Myles Turner, and with a

• 1:51:30Speaker 01

  top five pick. We started with the Nets, and we end with the Nets.

• 1:51:36Bill Simmons?

  I wish there was another team I could take. I keep looking. Is there another basketball team?

• 1:51:42Speaker 01

  Can we count like, the teams that, the international teams that played exhibition games?

• 1:51:45Bill Simmons?

  There's still no other teams. I just think it's, it's a disgrace. This is the NBA at its worst. A team that sucked for a couple of years now, and wanted to suck again. I don't understand, in a draft that had so many good players, that they took five guys that, um, not one of them has jumped out to me yet.

• 1:52:09Speaker 01

  It's so early.

• 1:52:10Bill Simmons?

  I know, but it's just like, this is a disgrace of a team. It's just terrible what they did. I don't, this is the NBA.

• 1:52:17Speaker 01

  So do their drafts-

• 1:52:18Bill Simmons?

  We've never solved the NBA correctly with shit like this. It's embarrassing to watch.

• 1:52:24Speaker 01

  So if you do the draft over again?

• 1:52:26Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:52:28Speaker 01

  Coward is there for them at eight?

• 1:52:31Bill Simmons?

  Listen, they, they passed on, even if they had taken Murray Boils, or Coward, like, you have to think Demond is like, awesome, and I don't, I don't even know what position he is. He made a couple of threes against Celtics, but for the most part- You know, it doesn't seem like he can shoot and I'm not, it's not like he's an elite playmaker. I don't see it at all.

• 1:52:53Speaker 01

  I'm just saying that that's the one because.

• 1:52:55Bill Simmons?

  Even if they had taken Derek Queen, it made more sense to me.

• 1:52:57Speaker 01

  The other picks are 19, 22, 26, 27. Who hasn't played. Yakchunas, talk about a guy who hasn't, who made an impression, he hasn't played yet.

• 1:53:08Bill Simmons?

  Clifford, like Gonzalez, but like, why take all these guys who all play the same position? I don't, and then I just don't understand anything.

• 1:53:17Speaker 01

  There is no one below 15, 16.

• 1:53:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, after 15, it's.

• 1:53:24Speaker 01

  That is making me like.

• 1:53:25Bill Simmons?

  Why keep all the picks?

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm sure they tried something.

• 1:53:29Bill Simmons?

  I don't think they tried anything. They were like proud of like, we like all five of these guys. The whole thing was stupid.

• 1:53:35Speaker 01

  Coward is the one that got away.

• 1:53:37Bill Simmons?

  Um, horrible.

• 1:53:39Speaker 01

  Cause he looks like a star, I mean, a star.

• 1:53:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:42Speaker 01

  Um, can you imagine how different the vibe would be in Brooklyn if one of those picks was Cedric Coward? There'd be legitimate, like Brooklyn has a guy, a homegrown guy.

• 1:53:53Bill Simmons?

  Well, the other thing with Deman is they might've been able to get him later or use two picks to trade up for him, you know? Also, like if Dumas wanted Queen that bad, why don't you trade him the eighth pick?

• 1:54:07Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, we'd have to do a whole.

• 1:54:09Bill Simmons?

  Well.

• 1:54:10Speaker 01

  Oral history of who called, who went and how many teams knew and, you know, cause there was all the way up to Chicago. There was, or doubt Chicago's.

• 1:54:18Bill Simmons?

  Well, so he traded for the 13th pick to take Queen.

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Chicago's 12.

• 1:54:22Bill Simmons?

  Would you have traded for the eighth pick to take Queen? Probably. And would you have done that if you're Brooklyn in five seconds? Also, if Joe Dumas takes over a team, I'm calling him constantly to make sure he's not going to do anything. I'm. I want to be his first trade.

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  Would they have just taken Queen at seven if they couldn't have acquired another first round pick with which to trade up?

• 1:54:46Bill Simmons?

  Possibly. I like Queen.

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  But the Nets still have cap space.

• 1:54:50Bill Simmons?

  That pick cost them one of those things. Well, they have cap space and the ability to maybe grab some more non-lottery picks that are not going to play for them.

• 1:54:57Speaker 01

  You do wish, even after 20 games, Joman is the closest one that's like, he's had a couple of moments.

• 1:55:07Speaker 01

  You just do what, like, like every time Drake Powell gets on the floor and does anything, like gets a stop, Nets fans are like, "See?" Drake Powell's like, "Yeah, he scored four points." For a team that like, doesn't really have anybody right now.

• 1:55:20Bill Simmons?

  The one defensible one is Porter has played better.

• 1:55:24Speaker 01

  Porter's been good.

• 1:55:24Bill Simmons?

  Irrefutably than Cam Johnson.

• 1:55:26Speaker 01

  Porter's been very good.

• 1:55:26Bill Simmons?

  Cam Johnson struggled early. I still, I, that, I love that trade for Denver, but if you're Brooklyn, you have to be delighted with Porter.

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  I liked that trade for Brooklyn. I, you and I disagreed heartily on that. I liked it for both teams.

• 1:55:36Bill Simmons?

  You like Porter more than me, though.

• 1:55:36Speaker 01

  I liked it for both teams. I just like, I think the pick they got is potentially super valuable. And, you know, we'll see. It's 2032 pick. I just, Noah Clowney's playing well. Did that do anything for you? Walking by Barclay Center and seeing a giant Noah Clowney with his arms folded, looking tough, like this is come, come, come, watch. Yeah.

• 1:56:01Bill Simmons?

  I like Clowney, and he's gonna have a moment for somebody. Cause he's like the, kind of, kind of aggro, feisty guy. He's, he'll mix it up.

• 1:56:12Speaker 01

  Shots looking good.

• 1:56:12Bill Simmons?

  Prediction of the year, right here. Clowney, Ron Holland, they're gonna mix it up at some point. Maybe Isaiah Stewart will come in.

• 1:56:19Speaker 01

  If Isaiah Stewart comes in, that's not gonna go well for Noah Clowney.

• 1:56:22Bill Simmons?

  This would be a good social media clip for us.

• 1:56:23Speaker 01

  Two on one tag team.

• 1:56:25Bill Simmons?

  Well, then Nick Claxton will come in on the other side, and there'll just be a lot of like, a lot of, a lot of this happening.

• 1:56:30Speaker 01

  Nick Claxton alternates, just from afar, between the polls of, it's kind of fun, like, these young guys, like, I really care about Brooklyn, I care about this franchise, and like, I'm trying to do my best to be a role model, and just dejected, like, man, I can't believe, I just can't believe I'm still here. And this is what the team is.

• 1:56:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I wouldn't, from what I've seen, from an energy slash demeanor standpoint, I wouldn't be frothing at the mouth to try to trade for Nick Claxton. Tough one though. Take the money. Can't blame him for that.

• 1:57:03Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're wrapping up. Do you want to, you don't have another podcast this week, right?

• 1:57:07Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 1:57:08Bill Simmons?

  Do you want to do one big prediction for the weekend before we go?

• 1:57:11Speaker 01

  Uh, sure. I haven't looked at any of the games.

• 1:57:13Bill Simmons?

  Or any sort of prediction in general?

• 1:57:14Speaker 01

  Other than Friday night's showdown.

• 1:57:16Bill Simmons?

  No, not even for a game. Biggest league story you're monitoring over the next few days that you're the most interested in?

• 1:57:21Speaker 01

  You, can you go first? Or I'll go first. Uh, biggest league story?

• 1:57:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, the, the most fun thing is the Detroit streak.

• 1:57:28Speaker 01

  That's a good one.

• 1:57:28Bill Simmons?

  It's, they're at 11. Um, whether Toronto is for real, I think they're going to beat a couple of these bad teams and them being 12 and 5, I think is interesting. Houston always and then, but number one is LeBron.

• 1:57:42Speaker 01

  Number one's LeBron. Number one's LeBron.

• 1:57:44Bill Simmons?

  That's the one I'm most interested in.

• 1:57:45Speaker 01

  Fitting in, not fitting out. Uh, and I will go like, how do the Bucks fare without Giannis for an extended stretch of time?

• 1:57:53Bill Simmons?

  Can they tread water?

• 1:57:54Speaker 01

  Even if it's just six, seven games. Is it, is it 0 and 6 or is it 3 and 3?

• 1:57:59Bill Simmons?

  0 and 6 could, yikes.

• 1:58:03Speaker 01

  That, that's a good one. Uh, Denver, Houston on Friday is appointment viewing. That's, that, is that the first like?

• 1:58:10Bill Simmons?

  I changed my flight going home to make sure, even if it was delayed, I wasn't going to miss any of that game.

• 1:58:15Speaker 01

  I remember, I remember flying back from LA two seasons ago and realizing two days before that it was the first Denver-Boston game of the year. We all thought Denver and Boston were going to meet in the finals. Um, and I couldn't change my flight and the wifi worked just well enough that I could stream the game. It was a great game too. Uh, this is the, is this the first game, the first head to head game that it's like, now we have enough information about both of these teams. They're as good as we thought, better probably in Houston's case. Is this the first like, all right?

• 1:58:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they haven't played yet.

• 1:58:47Speaker 01

  Buckle up. I gotta sit and watch this one.

• 1:58:48Bill Simmons?

  The problem is no Brown.

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  Like New York, Cleveland, there were a bunch of injuries both ways.

• 1:58:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:54Speaker 01

  Bunch of like big injuries.

• 1:58:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, has OKC played Denver yet?

• 1:58:58Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 1:58:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:02Bill Simmons?

  Denver Houston, I think from a matchup, we didn't get to see a version of this last year with the type of players we have in the series or a game. Throwing them against each other is probably the matchup I'm the most interested in.

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  We're gonna see at the same time. I bet we see it. Valanciunas Jokic versus Adam Shingun.

• 1:59:21Bill Simmons?

  Oh, double twin towers?

• 1:59:23Speaker 01

  Same time. Like, let's just, let's just go crazy.

• 1:59:27Bill Simmons?

  That'd be pretty good. Who guards Durant? Gordon?

• 1:59:31Speaker 01

  Valanciunas, just throw him on there. Gordon, if he plays, yeah, he sat out last night, I assume, just for precautionary reasons. Gordon Watson has been playing a lot because of Christian Brown's injury. I bet he gets a shot.

• 1:59:43Bill Simmons?

  Before we go, I haven't talked to you since you lost your live show Virginity.

• 1:59:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:47Bill Simmons?

  In Minnesota, of all places.

• 1:59:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, why not?

• 1:59:50Bill Simmons?

  Was it, you had a good time?

• 1:59:51Speaker 01

  Great time. Great time.

• 1:59:52Bill Simmons?

  Had some guests? Good crowd?

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  Finchy brought it. I told him I'd bring the heat.

• 1:59:57Bill Simmons?

  Some laughs?

• 1:59:58Speaker 01

  He brought it. Dante brought it. It was good.

• 2:00:00Bill Simmons?

  What's the next city, you think?

• 2:00:01Speaker 01

  We're talking about it. We're definitely gonna do one here in New York. And then we are debating one other city. I think we're gonna try the three this year. New York, I insisted on, because this is my home and...

• 2:00:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's a layup.

• 2:00:16Speaker 01

  And we've got a few. Do you just want me to name them that are candidates or not?

• 2:00:22Bill Simmons?

  No, you don't need to. I know you're, they're percolating with Elizabeth.

• 2:00:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:26Bill Simmons?

  Our beloved live show.

• 2:00:27Speaker 01

  She sent me a long email yesterday that I have not yet responded to with this in mind. But it was funny. It's actually, I haven't gone to a bunch.

• 2:00:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:36Speaker 01

  As a fan.

• 2:00:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, true.

• 2:00:37Speaker 01

  And appeared on a couple. Like, I knew that they would, it was gonna be way different than a normal podcast. But the level of difference was jarring and like, kinda, kinda shook me up for the first 10 or 15 minutes.

• 2:00:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:53Speaker 01

  And then also, I was very concerned about time.

• 2:00:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:55Speaker 01

  Because I feel like as an audience member, you start approaching two hours and I start to be like...

• 2:01:01Bill Simmons?

  Hour and a half, hour 45.

• 2:01:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wanted, I wanted an hour and a half. Before Q and A. And I was gonna monitor the time very carefully. And I left my phone in the green room. So I had no idea how long anything was taking. So I was rifling through the couch cushions, thinking my phone was in there. That stressed me out. And it turned out we were even faster than expected. So I did alright. So I learned a lot. Next one will be even better, but it was fun. It was cool to meet people.

• 2:01:27Bill Simmons?

  I did a Dena Thieves rewatchables and I brought the wrong iPad out and the battery died. And Chris Ryan had to ad lib for like two minutes while I ran backstage. And he just had to freelance a van.

• 2:01:39Speaker 01

  We still gotta get me on rewatchables. Like I'm.

• 2:01:40Bill Simmons?

  I know, when you come to LA.

• 2:01:43Speaker 01

  I don't know, we're gonna play in it. Can book it. You know what I watched for the first time this week on my Peloton rides? First time, one of those movies that I just missed, Casino.

• 2:01:53Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:01:53Speaker 01

  I'd never seen it before.

• 2:01:56Bill Simmons?

  It's great.

• 2:01:56Speaker 01

  It's a great time.

• 2:01:57Bill Simmons?

  It's great. My wife. The unofficial little brother to Goodfellas.

• 2:02:00Speaker 01

  My wife texted me mid Peloton ride yesterday and she was like, can you turn that down? It's a lot of swearing and our daughter can hear the entire thing. And it was Pesci and De Niro arguing in the desert. And it was just like, it was, it was bad.

• 2:02:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cuz you have this weird TV movie life where your wife is just like, some shows, movies are a nonstarter.

• 2:02:19Speaker 01

  Violence, yeah.

• 2:02:20Bill Simmons?

  Violence is out.

• 2:02:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, Casino, she would have lasted three minutes.

• 2:02:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, so you almost have to like sneak in these things to get a taste of. Like The Beast in Me on Netflix, your wife wouldn't watch, but it's really good.

• 2:02:32Speaker 01

  Don't even know what that is. You recommended Task.

• 2:02:34Bill Simmons?

  Task is great, that's another one. Yeah, there's some good ones. All right, Zach Lowe, pleasure as always. Thanks for taking the train to come see us.

• 2:02:40Speaker 01

  Great time.

• 2:02:41Bill Simmons?

  Great to see you. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right, it's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras and watch Tip Off Plus as the official beer sponsor of the NBA. Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Opening US Residence 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2026. Ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details.

• 2:03:23Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. In today's sports, everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other. Trick formations, infield shifts, constant rotation changes. Yet it's proven time and time again that strong fundamentals are the thing that will lead you to victory. Banking, no different. While everyone else tries to outdo each other, PNC Bank just keeps going right down the middle with steady, calculated money moves and the financial wins just keep coming. PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865, brilliantly boring since 1865 as a registered mark of the PNC Financial Services Group, Incorporated. PNC Bank, National Association, Member, FTIC. All right, we had to do Ringer 107, even though we just went two hours with Zach Lowe. Joe House is here.

• 2:04:08Bill Simmons?

  This has been an Action Pass BS Pod. What a week for me, for the listeners. The mailbag came back this week, House. It's just like, it's like it never left.

• 2:04:17Speaker 02

  Mailbag and league pass rankings. I mean, seriously, just, just throw in 95.

• 2:04:25Bill Simmons?

  What, yeah, what year is this? I don't even know. We're in the talk football. We went three and two last week. There is a five-way tie in the Ringer 107. It is just the definition of mediocrity. But this is perennially right around when I usually get hot.

• 2:04:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:04:40Bill Simmons?

  Right around Thanksgiving.

• 2:04:41Speaker 02

  Into existence, buddy.

• 2:04:42Bill Simmons?

  I usually start coming on. We have a nice feel for the season. You have a real feel for what teams want to do and not do. And we're going to rip through the games right now. The stayaways for me this week are Bears Steelers, no thanks. Packers Vikings, no thank you.

• 2:04:59Speaker 02

  Let me stop you. Why don't you want? You don't want to bet on Packers? Why?

• 2:05:04Bill Simmons?

  I don't want to lay the points with the Packers when I can't figure out what the F is going on with them and I don't want to bet on J.J. McCarthy. So it's a stay away for me.

• 2:05:14Speaker 02

  The not betting on J.J. McCarthy is very, very sad on strategy, but.

• 2:05:18Bill Simmons?

  I don't want to put the Packers in a tease. I don't want to lay a touchdown with them.

• 2:05:21Speaker 02

  They're at home at less than a touchdown against J.J. McCarthy.

• 2:05:24Bill Simmons?

  Good luck. Ravens, Jets, stayin' away. Maybes.

• 2:05:30Bill Simmons?

  I liked Panthers plus seven against the Niners a little bit and you did not. You don't like Bryce Bryce Young on the road. What are your other reasons?

• 2:05:37Speaker 02

  That's it. That's the reason. Well, and also this version of the San Francisco offense, right? We we finally, this is their offense. They saw what we saw against San Francisco.

• 2:05:49Bill Simmons?

  We lost it on our parlay last week. The Cards plus thirteen and a half.

• 2:05:53Speaker 02

  That was so dumb. I don't want to.

• 2:05:55Bill Simmons?

  The case for the Panthers is I still think the Niners defense is hot garbage. And Berset was moving the ball all up and down the field on them. And the points should have been higher. The guy fumbled on the goal line as he was running in.

• 2:06:07Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:06:07Bill Simmons?

  But it is, they were moving the ball whenever they wanted. So the question is, could the Panthers just move the ball whenever they want on this team?

• 2:06:13Speaker 02

  They they want to run the ball and they're very good at running the ball, the Panthers.

• 2:06:18Speaker 02

  But I I'm I'm looking at the other side of things, which is the San Francisco offense, which which really.

• 2:06:24Bill Simmons?

  It's a juggernaut. I didn't like going against it last week. It was not, I did not have a good time. So we're staying away from that. Eagles, Cowboys, I just want to stay away from you. But you probably have a lean either way on this. You had the Eagles last week as your wise wager. You tried to talk me into it for Ringer 107. I didn't want to do it. They killed the Lions. Eagles are minus three and a half at Dallas. There's just enough there with that Dallas team and especially with the cheap touchdown at the end. I I don't, it's just a stay. I don't want either of those, but.

• 2:06:54Speaker 02

  I would really go hard if it was three and at different points it's been three. Like it's it's the Eagles are favored minus three and a half at plus at even money, plus a hundred.

• 2:07:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:06Speaker 02

  The three and a half for Dallas is minus 122. Like, yeah, I mean, come on, just put the three out.

• 2:07:12Bill Simmons?

  And then a a big maybe for me, which you're just going to reject like a.

• 2:07:20Speaker 02

  Like Dikembe?

• 2:07:21Bill Simmons?

  Like a transplant or Dikembe Mutombo.

• 2:07:23Speaker 02

  Give it the.

• 2:07:24Bill Simmons?

  Browns plus three and a half against the Raiders. The Raiders can't block at all. We saw that last week against Dallas that would say, single handedly vindicated the Quinn Williams trade. Just whiffing. So I thought I watched the entire game on my flight to New York City. Some of the worst offensive line play I've seen all year. So the case would be the Browns defense is just going to single handedly win this game.

• 2:07:49Bill Simmons?

  The case against it is it's the Browns offensive line on the road with Shador Sanders, who could not have looked worse. Now he's gets to play practice with the first string all week. They're getting three and a half points against a Vegas team that's bad. You could argue this line should just be even because who the hell knows what's going to happen, but I can't bet on Shador as a Ringer 107 pick when we're trying to win Ringer 107. We just can't.

• 2:08:14Speaker 02

  Can't do it. No, I would.

• 2:08:16Bill Simmons?

  I did think about it, though.

• 2:08:17Speaker 02

  I'm, well, I would, you know, I don't have enough information to make the strenuous case I'd like to make to take the Raiders.

• 2:08:27Bill Simmons?

  No, we're never taking the Raiders. I'm not doing that.

• 2:08:29Speaker 02

  That's fine. Okay. Duly noted. There's no reason.

• 2:08:33Bill Simmons?

  They're awful.

• 2:08:34Speaker 02

  They're very bad.

• 2:08:35Bill Simmons?

  Losing to the Raiders in week one is in the running for dumbest result of the season. Like in retrospect, what would the Pats be favored now against them? Like 13?

• 2:08:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Easy, easy double digits.

• 2:08:46Bill Simmons?

  Some parlay games for you. We have the Seahawks money line. They're favored by 13 and a half in Tennessee. Couple of reasons to be slightly afraid of that game. Zabel's probably out. Simmons is back for Tennessee. It's a lot of points for a road favorite and I would like to steer clear.

• 2:09:09Bill Simmons?

  Lions, Giants. Lions minus 10 and a half. Lions coming off a bad loss. Lions with some starters back. Lions, for instance, could be, could be parlayed. The money line Lions with the Chiefs minus one and a half gets us under minus 120. It's minus 113.

• 2:09:30Speaker 02

  We have to go back to the Chiefs.

• 2:09:32Bill Simmons?

  Are the Chiefs going to go five and six?

• 2:09:35Speaker 02

  Why can't they? Tell me why they can't.

• 2:09:39Bill Simmons?

  Okay, we'll talk about them in a second. And then Patriots Bengals, that line dropped to six and a half. The money line's lowered because there's a possibility of a Joe Burrow comeback.

• 2:09:50Speaker 02

  Just insane to me.

• 2:09:52Bill Simmons?

  Know why that would happen. No Jamar Chase.

• 2:09:54Speaker 02

  How's that make any sense whatsoever for Cincinnati?

• 2:09:57Bill Simmons?

  Awful defense.

• 2:09:58Speaker 02

  Explanation.

• 2:10:04Bill Simmons?

  And then the, the ones that I really like Jaguars at Arizona. I know there's some red flags with going into Arizona and there's always red flags with taking the Jags.

• 2:10:15Speaker 02

  On the road. Can't take the Jags on the road. Can't do it.

• 2:10:18Bill Simmons?

  Except we're going to it's because it's going to be one of my picks.

• 2:10:20Speaker 02

  It's your pick. That's fine.

• 2:10:21Bill Simmons?

  It's minus two and a half. No Marvin Harrison.

• 2:10:26Bill Simmons?

  Arizona's defense is horrible. Like horrible. Like that San Francisco wasn't just scoring last week. They were doing whatever they wanted on defense. I don't know what happened to Gannon and the defense in general. It's in Arizona, but they don't have a home field advantage. It's not like it's, oh, it's outdoors. It's going to be cold. Oh, it's in Florida. It's going to be humid. It's just in a dome and with depressed fans. They're three and seven. The team's done. The Cardinals have given up 84 points in the past two weeks. I think Gannon's and next coach fired at least. There's a whiff of it now. And then here's the other thing, House. Jacksonville, what it say what you want about them, but they're second against the run defensively and the Cardinals can't run the ball. So this is just Brissette trying

• 2:11:10Bill Simmons?

  to keep them in it. And I think Brissette's kind of shown, you know, he can put up garbage time stats, but I, I just think the Jaguars are going to win 11 or 12 games and we're going to be like, what just happened? They play the Jets two more times. They play somebody else awful, the Titans. They have this game like they already have seven wins or six wins.

• 2:11:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I don't mind the case for the rest of the season or the case for them, you know, threatening for, for a playoff spot, but we need more evidence. They, they lost to Jake Browning and Davis Mills this season. In fact, Davis Mills led Houston to, what was it? 21 points in the fourth quarter?

• 2:11:51Bill Simmons?

  I'm aware. That saved us on Ranger 107.

• 2:11:54Speaker 02

  Davis Mills did that against this Jacksonville team on, on the road. So Jacksonville had two consecutive weeks on the road against Vegas, which, which took Vegas failing on a two-point try in overtime for, for Jacksonville get the win and then lost to Houston outright. They lost to Jake Browning in week three.

• 2:12:15Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:12:16Speaker 02

  Week two.

• 2:12:18Speaker 02

  They have one win on the road and it was against that, that San Francisco team where every single person on the team was in the hospital.

• 2:12:26Bill Simmons?

  Counter, uh, they still beat the Niners who've been banged up all year and are like just like a wounded pit bull.

• 2:12:32Speaker 02

  That's what I just said, on the road.

• 2:12:34Bill Simmons?

  No, but I'm, I know.

• 2:12:35Speaker 02

  Their whole team in the hospital.

• 2:12:37Bill Simmons?

  I still think you, I'm saying, I still think you get credit for beating the Niners even when the whole team's in the hospital because they're well coached and they always, whatever.

• 2:12:45Bill Simmons?

  They beat the Panthers in week one, they beat the Chiefs in week five, granted dumb game, but they did beat them. They beat the Chargers handily last week.

• 2:12:52Speaker 02

  They did.

• 2:12:54Bill Simmons?

  And here's my case, I just wonder if they're the good bad team. They're six and four, their real record is three, two and five. Five either or games, so they, they're basically three and two in the either or games. They're at Zona, at Tennessee, home Indiana, Apples, uh, home Jets, at Denver, at Indianapolis, home Tennessee. There's four more wins than this. I just think they're going to be in the playoffs and we're going to wonder what the F happened.

• 2:13:22Speaker 02

  I don't disagree with you, I'll.

• 2:13:24Bill Simmons?

  But they have to win this game to be in the playoffs.

• 2:13:26Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna, um, I'm gonna accept your insistence. It's your pick, you're allowed to make it.

• 2:13:34Bill Simmons?

  I watched that Cardinals team really carefully last week and they sucked.

• 2:13:40Speaker 02

  It did suck.

• 2:13:41Bill Simmons?

  They just sucked.

• 2:13:42Speaker 02

  But the, the problem is.

• 2:13:44Bill Simmons?

  And I don't think it matters if they're, does it matter where Arizona plays? Does it, oh, oh, they're in Arizona, watch out. Why, why does that have to matter?

• 2:13:51Speaker 02

  They played against an offense that by priors, that San Francisco offense on priors coming into the season, San Francisco was supposed to be an 11 or 12 win team based on, on the offense that for the first time this season, that group of skill players had played nine snaps together before this Arizona game. And so, you know, the, it, there is a, a difference in class between that San Francisco offense with all of their talent out there, also the familiarity of, of, uh, Shanahan against, uh, Gann and against Arizona. Radically different thing for this, this, because Trevor Lawrence, he sucks. He sucks.

• 2:14:35Speaker 02

  He sucks. So just be aware of what we're doing here.

• 2:14:40Bill Simmons?

  Listen, it was very hard to find five picks this week.

• 2:14:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:14:43Bill Simmons?

  I have them marked down. I have the Bucks plus six and a half against the Rams marked down.

• 2:14:50Bill Simmons?

  Because I think the Bucks are like, I watched that entire Bucks Bills game.

• 2:14:54Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 2:14:55Bill Simmons?

  They were leading in the fourth quarter.

• 2:14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:56Bill Simmons?

  I actually think their defense is pretty good. I know they got lit up by Buffalo, but Allen was just out of his mind.

• 2:15:03Speaker 02

  Got lit up by Josh Allen.

• 2:15:04Bill Simmons?

  Patriots, I thought they did a good job. They gave up two dumb plays. The question is, can the Rams get some explosives on them? But this just felt like, I thought this was a flash sale line to me.

• 2:15:15Bill Simmons?

  I just blink test in my head, it should be four or four and a half. And the Rams are just getting two extra points for being home. Their offense did mostly jack shit that's last week against Seattle.

• 2:15:28Speaker 02

  Seven in that game? Just six and a half? Now we're only getting six and a half.

• 2:15:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I thought it was.

• 2:15:32Speaker 02

  Another one where, you know, the proper price is seven, but it's six and a half at 102.

• 2:15:38Bill Simmons?

  Looks like Irving and Goodwin are, Goodwin are gonna play. And then the Rams just had their biggest win of the year last week, which I was like the week after for that. I, I just feel like Tampa's gonna hang around.

• 2:15:48Speaker 02

  I'm, I, I don't have an argument. I, I, it's too many points. I like where your head is at on Tampa.

• 2:15:55Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh, this was not a game I had. And I know all the cases for it, but you were intrigued by the Saints minus one and a half against the Kirk Cousins Falcons. And after you suggested it, I did get excited about the chance to bet against Kirk Cousins and Raheem Morris, who I talked about in my mailbag.

• 2:16:12Speaker 02

  Two of the greats.

• 2:16:13Bill Simmons?

  The man, the warm, the warm himself.

• 2:16:15Speaker 02

  The warm, there you go.

• 2:16:17Bill Simmons?

  So the Saints are bad, but what is it? It's one and a half and they're home.

• 2:16:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:16:22Bill Simmons?

  They beat the Panthers two weeks ago and then had a bye.

• 2:16:24Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:16:26Bill Simmons?

  Shucks, okay.

• 2:16:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's, he's okay. There's some, some signs of, of life there. They only traded one of their, they only traded Rashid Shaheed, you know? They didn't trade their, the entirety of their offensive, um, skill position nucleus.

• 2:16:42Bill Simmons?

  Also, these, these two, the fanbases hate each other.

• 2:16:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:46Bill Simmons?

  So this is not a let's roll over this week. This is like, we actually hate the Falcons. Let's, let's like jam a steak into their heart.

• 2:16:53Speaker 02

  Kirk Cousins without Drake London.

• 2:16:56Bill Simmons?

  And

• 2:16:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, no Drake London. The impact on Atlanta's offense when Drake London plays versus when he doesn't play, specifically on the run game, they are a yard per attempt worse. A yard per carry worse, a full over a yard worse without Drake London on the football field. They're like four point something yards per carry with him when he plays and in the mid threes, when he doesn't play.

• 2:17:23Bill Simmons?

  All right.

• 2:17:24Speaker 02

  I, I, we're not going to have any more opportunities to bet against Kirk Cousins. That's the most important thing.

• 2:17:28Bill Simmons?

  This is it. Thing. And technically we can say the same thing about Shadur Sanders, but I'm not taking

• 2:17:33Speaker 02

  And the same thing about J J McCarthy. Like I would bet against all of them. I already have, I've already, I'm happy to have less than a touchdown against J J McCarthy. You kidding me?

• 2:17:44Bill Simmons?

  I can't do it.

• 2:17:44Speaker 02

  That's fine. This, you have to give me one of them. And the one for me is the Saints. I'll, I'll gladly, gladly, gladly back the Saints here.

• 2:17:52Bill Simmons?

  It was interesting how some of the talking heads talked about McCarthy last week where there, there was not a lot of yeah, butts with him. The people who like, were like, I watched the L 22. They were some of the worst throws we've seen this season. Yeah, there is no rhyme or reason for where the ball was going. His feet aren't set. They've rushed him. It's, this is a disaster. There's no, no real signs at all, except for that last drive that there's something here. It was a pretty sobering. I felt that way watching the game as we rooted for them.

• 2:18:28Speaker 02

  Didn't enjoy it.

• 2:18:28Bill Simmons?

  Them in Ringer 107. I didn't enjoy it at all.

• 2:18:31Speaker 02

  That was one where we made our pick on Thursday. I thought the defensive lineman, Jonathan Greener was going to be playing. He is their, their, their primary pass rush.

• 2:18:40Bill Simmons?

  They lost him.

• 2:18:41Speaker 02

  Asset. And then he was ruled out after we made the pick. I got off of the position. I got out of all my Minnesota stuff. I bet on the Eagles last week. That covered off all the stupid Minnesota money.

• 2:18:51Bill Simmons?

  Vayner 107.

• 2:18:52Speaker 02

  We couldn't do anything about it. It wasn't our fault.

• 2:18:56Bill Simmons?

  I just don't like the smell of that Packers team.

• 2:19:00Speaker 02

  It doesn't smell good. I understand what you're saying.

• 2:19:03Bill Simmons?

  I don't, when it's third and eight, I don't, I just don't know what they do.

• 2:19:05Speaker 02

  They don't either. That's the problem.

• 2:19:08Bill Simmons?

  Jacobs is either not playing or he's gonna play hurt. Not awesome.

• 2:19:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:19:13Bill Simmons?

  They drop balls all over the place.

• 2:19:14Speaker 02

  They sure do.

• 2:19:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's a stay away for me. I could see, like, I personally could see Minnesota winning that game and I could see them losing by 25.

• 2:19:23Speaker 02

  Their defense is very good. That's the reason why I like the idea of Green Bay. Why, I personally have already bet it.

• 2:19:30Bill Simmons?

  So Chiefs Colts, there's two ways to go because we have the parlay. Because we're doing the Pats.

• 2:19:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:19:37Bill Simmons?

  The Pats are minus six and a half. I'm happy doing that straight up. I'm also happy doing them with a money line and like over 44 and a half or something like that. And because there's going to be points in the game regardless, but I just think, I don't think people realize, the Pats have played some decent to really good defenses the last few weeks. Even a team like the Jets that traded two of their guys, but they were still like, they're still like, their identity is defense. They're not awful. The Bengals are like reprehensible how bad they are on defense and the Patriots should be able to move the ball up and down the field on them all game. I think it has blowout potential. They haven't had a blowout in a couple of weeks. There's a Burrow piece that, about him coming back, but it's only T. Higgins.

• 2:20:19Bill Simmons?

  I think though, the one bet I would say is, I think Chase Brown, if you have him in fantasy or Guillotine or whatever, he's just the exact type of guy that the Pats have had trouble with this season.

• 2:20:31Bill Simmons?

  But Pats in a parlay or T's, and then we have to figure out this Chiefs thing. Because the Lions have to be in a money line against the Giants with all their starters coming back, coming off a loss. Like, the Giants are a mess.

• 2:20:45Bill Simmons?

  The Lions money line with the Chiefs is an easy way to do it.

• 2:20:49Speaker 02

  Why can't we do the Lions money line with Seattle? Because we don't.

• 2:20:54Bill Simmons?

  Because that's not, we're not nearly enough. Yeah, we're not nearly enough. Um, well, explain your hesitation with the Chiefs.

• 2:21:01Speaker 02

  Who the hell are they? I have no idea who that this team is.

• 2:21:05Bill Simmons?

  They were winning that game and it seemed like they were wrapping it up there against the Broncos. And then they just kind of died with 10 minutes to go.

• 2:21:12Speaker 02

  Their defense doesn't get stops the way that that defense used to get stops, got stops last year. What we're accustomed to, which is putting pressure. We kept, I kept waiting for the Chris Jones play. Where's the Chris Jones play? They put pressure on Knicks had all the time in the world in that fourth quarter. And he threw an absolutely beautiful ball to Troy Franklin, a beautiful ball. That secondary, that, that um, chief secondary is poverty. They, they, there is no indication that they can, can slow anybody down. We've been watching it literally all season. We watched it the first week. Uh, Herbert threw all over that team. He had a field day. He, he had so much time and he just picked them apart.

• 2:21:54Speaker 02

  And there really hasn't been any signs of progress to my way of thinking. So I'm scared. I'm scared of, of the Colts ability to get what they want whenever they want.

• 2:22:05Bill Simmons?

  Daniel Jones?

• 2:22:06Speaker 02

  I'm not.

• 2:22:09Speaker 02

  After the Pittsburgh game, which was the classic perfect. Put Danny Dimes outdoors, put him up against a physical kind of defense and let him just turn into the pumpkin that he is.

• 2:22:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:23Speaker 02

  That's the, that's the, the thesis for, for what you would say. That's the version of Daniel Jones that we expect here, except they're coming off the bye. And Steichen's a pretty good coach. He, he, they might scheme up something to keep him out of harms way. Now, the, the best case for the Chiefs is that the Colts defense is extremely mediocre. That is a mediocre defense. Um, the best, you know, the Colts win games by scoring, outscoring the other team. Um, and, and anytime we've seen them.

• 2:22:57Bill Simmons?

  Is that, is that what they're trying this year? They're trying to outscore the other team?

• 2:23:00Speaker 02

  It's the, it's the.

• 2:23:01Bill Simmons?

  I haven't seen a strategy like that yet.

• 2:23:03Speaker 02

  They're not stopping the, they're not stopping their opponent. You get it.

• 2:23:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:08Speaker 02

  They're not winning games by stopping you.

• 2:23:09Bill Simmons?

  It sounds like you're more interested in moving the Colts line the other way.

• 2:23:12Speaker 02

  No, I don't. I'm not. I want to stay away from that game. Personally, I don't want to bet it because tell me what version of the Chiefs is going to show up. Mahomes is running around, you know, the he, the part of the, the game script last week, why I liked the Chiefs to handle their business against Denver was that his unique ability to scramble for yards. He scrambled for shit. He didn't do anything with his legs. He was behind the line of scrimmage. They had him bottled up. That was part of the handicap.

• 2:23:44Bill Simmons?

  Nothing to do with anything we've seen all season combined with nothing about anything with the stats.

• 2:23:49Speaker 02

  Yes, I can't wait to hear it.

• 2:23:51Bill Simmons?

  The Chiefs are five and five and they've taken shit all week. All they've heard all week was, oh my God, this is a rap. This could be done. They also need to win games to make the playoffs. I don't know if you've checked.

• 2:24:05Speaker 02

  They really do.

• 2:24:06Bill Simmons?

  They need to win some games now.

• 2:24:07Speaker 02

  They really do. That's a true story.

• 2:24:09Bill Simmons?

  Games in the season.

• 2:24:10Speaker 02

  That's a fact.

• 2:24:12Bill Simmons?

  And I don't know, man. Chiefs minus one and a half with the Lions money line to beat the Giants and just betting on the Chiefs to beat Daniel Jones by two in the biggest game they played all season.

• 2:24:24Speaker 02

  We have 10 years of evidence that that is what you're supposed to do. A full decade of solid evidence.

• 2:24:29Bill Simmons?

  The Chiefs are going to go five and six. Like, I'm honestly happy to lose the pick if they go five and six. And here's the other thing about the game last week.

• 2:24:39Bill Simmons?

  Guys were open.

• 2:24:42Bill Simmons?

  Mahomes missed dudes. He missed guys deep. What, four times? He had, he had plays. They had offense that they left on the field.

• 2:24:52Speaker 02

  They've lost two games this season because he's thrown red zone interceptions. They lost to the Jacksonville Jaguars.

• 2:24:58Bill Simmons?

  Red zone interception. There was some weird field position stuff in the second half or the special teams and I just think it was a weird game.

• 2:25:06Speaker 02

  Also another thing.

• 2:25:07Bill Simmons?

  Well, let me ask you this.

• 2:25:08Speaker 02

  Am I allowed to say out loud, bleep this, please? Harrison Bucker could go fuck himself. Every week they have a, they, they.

• 2:25:15Bill Simmons?

  We have Bell. Bell's, Bell's, Bell's here in New York City with me. She loved it. She also wants him to fuck himself. Um, we, on top of everything else, just go back to that. You watched that entire KC Denver game, as did I.

• 2:25:32Bill Simmons?

  Did Denver win that game or did Casey lose it?

• 2:25:34Speaker 02

  Both, but I give credit.

• 2:25:36Bill Simmons?

  You have to pick one.

• 2:25:37Speaker 02

  Denver won the game.

• 2:25:40Speaker 02

  They, Bo Nix had to drive them down the football field, had to make throws.

• 2:25:45Bill Simmons?

  I think Casey lost that game. I think they left plays on the field the whole time. I thought that interception by Mahomes, considering he's supposed to be one of the best quarterbacks of all time, was abysmal. I can't believe he did that.

• 2:25:57Speaker 02

  Inexplicable.

• 2:25:58Bill Simmons?

  And their last drive was, I just.

• 2:26:01Speaker 02

  Hot garbage.

• 2:26:02Bill Simmons?

  I'm taking them. This is gonna be, I get two picks, so this is gonna be my other one. Are you good with Patriots minus six and a half against the Bengals?

• 2:26:09Speaker 02

  I sure am.

• 2:26:12Speaker 02

  If you want to put them in a parlay, that's fine too. I don't mind laying the points with the Patriots.

• 2:26:16Bill Simmons?

  All right. The Ringer 107 is presented by FanDuel.

• 2:26:22Bill Simmons?

  First pick, we just argued about it for a while. We're gonna take the Chiefs minus 1.5. They just need to win by two. Parlayed with the Lions money line against the Giants, who stink. And the Lions coming off a loss where their playoff position is a little precarious and they're home.

• 2:26:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:40Bill Simmons?

  And they're getting guys back. Come on. So Chiefs from three and a half to one and a half with the Lions money line. That's our first pick. House did not want me to do this, and I'm doing it. It's, it's like when we were in college, when people had tequila with the worm in the bottle and we were like, should we drink this?

• 2:26:58Speaker 02

  Don't do it.

• 2:26:59Bill Simmons?

  Don't do it. You'll go crazy. You'll get brain damage. You're gonna wake up tomorrow without your pants on. And you'll be like, all right, I'll try it. I'm trying the Jags on the road.

• 2:27:09Speaker 02

  You can try it. Go ahead.

• 2:27:11Bill Simmons?

  I might wake up with my pants down at 5:00 PM.

• 2:27:14Speaker 02

  I guarantee it.

• 2:27:15Bill Simmons?

  West Coast.

• 2:27:15Speaker 02

  Who knows where that worm is gonna be?

• 2:27:17Bill Simmons?

  Who knows, but Jags minus two and a half in Arizona. This checks 100 stay the F away boxes. Arizona coming off two big losses in a row. The Jaguars with people believing Trevor Lawrence on the road.

• 2:27:30Speaker 02

  He stinks.

• 2:27:31Bill Simmons?

  I get all of it, but I think the Jags can run the ball.

• 2:27:35Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:27:36Bill Simmons?

  And I think they're the good bad team.

• 2:27:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:27:38Bill Simmons?

  I think they're gonna go 10 and 7, and we're not gonna believe they went 10 and 7.

• 2:27:41Speaker 02

  I'm gonna root for the Jags this week. You picked them, I'm rooting for them.

• 2:27:45Bill Simmons?

  Also, there weren't enough picks for this week.

• 2:27:49Bill Simmons?

  The last three we like Bucks plus six and a half.

• 2:27:53Speaker 02

  Solid.

• 2:27:53Bill Simmons?

  In LA against the Rams, the Bucks suddenly with the Panthers breathing on their necks a little bit.

• 2:27:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:58Bill Simmons?

  They need a win. They've they lost to the Bills and the Patriots in a row. Have some guys coming back, might be able to run the ball better and Rams coming off a giant win. So we like, uh, we call that a flash sale. Line's a little too high. House, you love the Saints minus one and a half against Kirk Cousins. I don't know if anyone enjoys anything in life more than you enjoy betting against Kirk Cousins at this stage of his career.

• 2:28:22Speaker 02

  All credit to that guy. He he had an incredible once in a lifetime career. The amount of money that that that he made going from situation to situation and at the exact right time, jumping at the at the the biggest contract out there. Truly amazing, truly one of a kind.

• 2:28:41Bill Simmons?

  It's just a miracle.

• 2:28:42Speaker 02

  Can't play professional football. What other evidence is there? We watched it last year. He got replaced last year because he's can't run and he can't throw. Other than that.

• 2:28:53Bill Simmons?

  And he can't, he can't push off his leg to throw anything and mustard on it.

• 2:28:56Speaker 02

  Other than that.

• 2:28:57Bill Simmons?

  This guy, I think he'd be a good announcer.

• 2:28:59Speaker 02

  Oh, I agree.

• 2:29:00Bill Simmons?

  Can't wait to have him in the booths.

• 2:29:01Speaker 02

  Totally agree. Great sense of humor. I I'm a Cousins fan.

• 2:29:05Bill Simmons?

  Saints one and a half plus two weeks ago, they beat the Panthers seventeen seven, which ain't nothing because the Panthers then, although the Panthers are his exact team.

• 2:29:13Speaker 02

  The mother shuckers are ready, believe me.

• 2:29:15Bill Simmons?

  And then our last pick is the Patriots minus six and a half in Cincinnati. This Patriots team likes playing on the road. That's one thing. No Jamar Chase because he decided to spit on Jalen Ramsey for reasons that remain unclear. It's just a fighting thing. You spit on somebody, you're gonna get punched.

• 2:29:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:34Bill Simmons?

  There's some good, some good zags against the Patriots this week with some of the advanced metrics. They're gaining a lot of this team isn't as good as meanwhile Indianapolis gets none of it.

• 2:29:45Speaker 02

  Metrics.

• 2:29:46Bill Simmons?

  But I like that their defense is very good. No, supporting that the Patriots are a little smoke and mirrorsy, all that stuff. It's fine.

• 2:29:53Speaker 02

  Well, they play an easy schedule. They just beat the teams in front of them.

• 2:29:57Bill Simmons?

  Was it easier than Indianapolis's schedule? Like, you know, whatever. Um, no Jamar Chase, and I think the Patriots, this has blowout potential. And also the Cincy fans are incredibly depressed by the team. So it's not like, I wouldn't say they have an awesome home field advantage.

• 2:30:13Speaker 02

  Just remember, it's Thursday. Joe Burrow might play quarterback for the Bengals. They're that stupid. They might, he might, it might happen.

• 2:30:19Bill Simmons?

  And if he does, the line maybe drops a point or two, and I'm fine living with it. I think it would be dumb for them to play Joe Burrow in this game when they have the Baltimore game coming.

• 2:30:27Speaker 02

  I don't think Joe Burrow should play this season.

• 2:30:29Bill Simmons?

  We will find out. Patriots minus six and a half is our last pick. Those are the Ringer 107 picks brought to you by FanDuel. Odds subject to change. You've been betting on basketball.

• 2:30:43Speaker 02

  I have been.

• 2:30:44Bill Simmons?

  You've been dabbling, been doing stuff.

• 2:30:46Speaker 02

  Fun.

• 2:30:46Bill Simmons?

  Who are you writing? Like, we just did the league pasture toes. You writing the Rockets and Pistons?

• 2:30:51Speaker 02

  Um, I, I have not. I, I'm, I'm just looking situationally, you know? You have to have the time to do this, but the injury report, the direction of injury stuff and, and the way the schedule is insane. You and I sat to get down together, what was it? Two weeks ago, three weeks ago? And you asked the NBA why they hate Golden State so much? Well, betting, betting against Golden State, you know, has been relatively profitable because the stretch that they just went on was like seven road games in a row or six road games in a row, seven games in 10 nights. What are we doing? What like, it was Steph F-ing Curry.

• 2:31:27Bill Simmons?

  I know.

• 2:31:27Speaker 02

  One of the three most important players from a marketing standpoint.

• 2:31:30Bill Simmons?

  I got mad about it.

• 2:31:31Speaker 02

  So stupid, but guess what? Last night, uh, that the line opened up against the Heat. The Heat were small favorites. Then they got to be larger favorites as Steph was ruled out because he rolled his ankle the night before. And then everybody on Golden State that sat out and, and, you know, Miami cruised. It was a great leg for a money line parlay. It was a great leg, uh, you know, laying the, the, the small set of points in the morning. So it's those kinds of opportunistic things. The other thing I'm doing is live betting. The Nets have lost 12 games. They've only been inside of 10 points in two of those 12 games. If you get into the fourth quarter and the game's relatively close, you can get a

• 2:32:14Speaker 02

  great price for the lay the points.

• 2:32:18Bill Simmons?

  Some live betting advice from House.

• 2:32:19Speaker 02

  The live betting stuff is really tremendous. The Nets to lose by 10 points, that outcome, when they're up against anybody that's reasonably good, that's a great angle to play.

• 2:32:29Bill Simmons?

  Sounds like on the Ringer Gambling Show, we need a Damon Jones special every night, where you're like, this is too good to be true.

• 2:32:35Speaker 02

  Toronto was another one. Toronto, I've been riding. Nine out of 10 wins. The market hasn't really.

• 2:32:40Bill Simmons?

  Zach and I just talked about them in League Pass. They're playing good.

• 2:32:43Speaker 02

  The two teams.

• 2:32:43Bill Simmons?

  Easy schedule too, so they're gaining some confidence.

• 2:32:46Speaker 02

  The two teams that fit that are Phoenix and Toronto. Both of those, and the market hasn't really accounted for the identity of either one of those teams. Those two teams try. They're trying. They're not effing around. They're playing all the way through to the end. That's what you need at this early stage of the season.

• 2:33:03Bill Simmons?

  I had a great cheeseburger at the Waverly Inn last night.

• 2:33:06Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm so jealous. You're in New York.

• 2:33:09Bill Simmons?

  I'm in New York. I'm about to leave, but I'm in, I'm in New York and it's cold.

• 2:33:16Speaker 02

  East Coast.

• 2:33:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's cold. There's a lot of buildings. The cab drivers just seem like they've gone to another level of weirdness now that, now that.

• 2:33:29Speaker 02

  Post COVID.

• 2:33:30Bill Simmons?

  They can play stuff through their phones.

• 2:33:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:32Bill Simmons?

  Heard some interesting songs and different things.

• 2:33:36Speaker 02

  Cultural.

• 2:33:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:37Speaker 02

  Adventure.

• 2:33:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, learned about some different cultures.

• 2:33:40Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 2:33:42Bill Simmons?

  And I'm ready to go back to LA.

• 2:33:44Speaker 02

  Do tell.

• 2:33:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:46Speaker 02

  Do tell.

• 2:33:47Bill Simmons?

  Ready to go back. I see, I'm surrounded by Yankees and Knicks fans and people.

• 2:33:52Speaker 02

  You did the important thing.

• 2:33:53Bill Simmons?

  Can't wait for Scam Cataboo to come back.

• 2:33:56Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 2:33:57Bill Simmons?

  Just get me out of here.

• 2:33:59Speaker 02

  Scam Cataboo. That's so, so bad. Why'd you do that to him?

• 2:34:03Bill Simmons?

  Scam Cataboo. Anyway.

• 2:34:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:06Bill Simmons?

  That's all I have to say other than Stephen A. Smith made me mad today when he said that, called Drake May a liar for saying he never watched First Take. Did you see that all, sorry? I like Stephen A, but this one made me mad.

• 2:34:17Speaker 02

  This is phenomenal.

• 2:34:18Bill Simmons?

  Steve, Drake May said he didn't know what Cam, what show Cam Newton was on and Stephen A took umbrage. And was like, there's no way he doesn't know Cam Newton's on this show. Drake May's a liar. It seems semi tongue in cheek, but.

• 2:34:32Speaker 02

  He was standing up for his guy.

• 2:34:34Bill Simmons?

  I think it's conceivable Drake May wouldn't know that Cam Newton was on First Take.

• 2:34:38Speaker 02

  Respectfully, respectfully, I would have needed three tries. What show is Cam Newton on? I don't know. One of those ESPN ones.

• 2:34:44Bill Simmons?

  Drake May's a professional athlete who obviously isn't watching ESPN, who works during the day on the East Coast.

• 2:34:51Speaker 02

  He's got stuff to do in the morning.

• 2:34:52Bill Simmons?

  First Take's on from 10 to 12. You know what Drake May's not doing from 10 to 12, but it's a Friday, watching ESPN? So how would he know Cam Newton is on First Take?

• 2:35:00Speaker 02

  I would give Stephen A the benefit of the doubt. Standing up for his guy.

• 2:35:05Bill Simmons?

  I liked, as you know, I like Stephen A, but I didn't, listen, don't come at Drake May. He's the most popular Boston athlete a long time. People love Drake May.

• 2:35:13Speaker 02

  Has anybody come up?

• 2:35:14Bill Simmons?

  Drake May's wife now is, is becoming like a cult hero on Instagram. She cooks for Pat's fans. She does recipes. They ask her. People love Drake May. It's a mistake by Stephen A.

• 2:35:23Speaker 02

  I could have had her on House of Carbs. Bring that back.

• 2:35:26Bill Simmons?

  Could have. Maybe bring it back just for her.

• 2:35:28Speaker 02

  For her, yeah.

• 2:35:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, this was, you can't come at Drake May. He's too popular. This is, this is a really, real big mistake by our guy Stephen A.

• 2:35:36Speaker 02

  We'll see.

• 2:35:37Bill Simmons?

  He's gonna have to apologize.

• 2:35:38Speaker 02

  I don't think he's worried about the, the good people of Boston. I don't think he's, he's trying to build bridges with people, with Boston and New England.

• 2:35:45Bill Simmons?

  That may be true. He needs to apologize to me. Maybe just a text. Send me a text, Stephen A. Just say I'm sorry what I said about Drake May. House, good to see you guys. We'll see you on the Ringer Gaming Show on Sunday.

• 2:35:56Speaker 02

  11 a.m.

• 2:35:56Bill Simmons?

  Which is now on all the FanDuel Sports Networks. We're on 11 a.m. Wise wager, you hit a 50 to one last week on that show.

• 2:36:03Speaker 02

  Kenneth Gainwell.

• 2:36:04Bill Simmons?

  Kenneth Gainwell, two touchdowns. Unbelievable stuff by you. I'll see you next Thursday. Oh, I won't see you next Thursday. We'll have to figure out what we're doing next week for Thanksgiving.

• 2:36:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:13Bill Simmons?

  Cause on Thanksgiving.

• 2:36:14Speaker 02

  Turkey.

• 2:36:14Bill Simmons?

  Normally we do picks on Thursday, but on Thursday you eat all day, you fall asleep.

• 2:36:19Speaker 02

  I'll be, yeah.

• 2:36:19Bill Simmons?

  Then you wake up and you eat more and then you fall asleep and then you eat a third time.

• 2:36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Who, who knows where I'll be? I'll be busy one way or the other.

• 2:36:27Bill Simmons?

  All right. Bye, House.

• 2:36:27Speaker 02

  See you.

• 2:36:29Bill Simmons?

  All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to House and thanks to Zach Lowe. Thanks to Hal and Eduardo as always. Thanks to our New York crew for helping us out. That includes Belle, Caroline, Kate, Juliet Lippman, my old friend. She even like, I think, moved some stuff around on the table, turned on some lights, showed me where the studio was. Anyway, it was, uh, it was fun to do a podcast from here. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday night live with Cousin Sal. Enjoy the weekend.

• 2:37:13Bill Simmons?

  Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-797-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh.

• 2:37:58Bill Simmons?

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• 2:38:32Speaker 03

  The Mosquito Bowl is the incredible true story of four college football stars who walked away from NFL careers after Pearl Harbor to enlist in the Marines. From Friday Night Lights director Peter Berg, and starring Nicholas Galatine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis comes a story of brotherhood and sacrifice. Four men who traded the gridiron for the battlefield. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters.