OKC’s Better, Jokic Isn’t Real, a Clippers Swoon, and Detroit’s Rise With Tim Legler, Plus Week 11 Picks With Joe House and Billy Gil

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Tim Legler to react to SGA and the OKC Thunder dismantling the Lakers (2:18). Then, they talk about Nikola Jokic’s resurgence, the struggling Clippers, and the most surprising teams this NBA season (32:42). Finally, Joe House and Billy Gil join to discuss NFL trends before making their Ringer 107 picks (01:22:49). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Tim Legler, Joe House, and Billy Gil Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo This episode is sponsored by State Farm®. Don’t settle for just any insurance when there’s State Farm. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down ready to watch the game only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows your live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home screen. No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV. Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new rewatch coming for you on Monday. We went back to the 80s. It's the 40th anniversary of a very important teen movie. It's called Weird Science. It's written and directed by John Hughes. It is a cable classic. Kyle Brandt has been demanding it for, uh, for

• 0:42Bill Simmons?

  years. So we finally, finally pulled it off. It's quite a movie. It's one of those movies that could come out in 2025 and maybe it would just be AI and a lot of the plot would be the same. So Weird Science coming on Monday. You have the weekend to watch it. Coming up on this podcast, Tim Legler is going to join us at the top. We're going to talk about Oklahoma City and Denver and whether they're starting to separate themselves from the rest of the league. We're going to do a whole bunch of basketball stuff. He's been announcing some games for ESPN and he has been courtside for some really good stuff. That's the top of the pod. And then Joe House and I are going to do Ringer 107 picks for Week 11. We're joined by Billy Gil, who just joined The Ringer a couple of weeks ago, and we're going to spruce up the marriage with him and try to make some football picks. So as

• 1:27Bill Simmons?

  you can tell, I'm taping this before the Patriots Jets game, and this was the 10th intro that we made, just in case the Patriots rolled over the Jets like we thought they would, and then I wouldn't have to come back out here at 8:30 and give five bullet points about, oh, my God, I can't believe blank. Let's just hope the Patriots won by, uh, by 20 by the time you listen to this. Uh, as for the rest of the podcast, we're going to take a break, Pearl Jam, and then Tim Legler. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like needing the protection offensive guard on the football field, but getting an elementary school crossing guard. Sure, they're both guards, but you can only trust one to keep your quarterback safe when the game is on

• 2:09Bill Simmons?

  the line. So don't settle for just any insurance when you can have State Farm like a good neighbor. State Farm is there.

• 2:41Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're taping this late Thursday afternoon. Tim Legler is here. He has been announcing basketball games for ESPN and bouncing around on different shows, but this is really his true passion, talking to me about Nikola Jokic and OKC. I'm gonna start here. You did the OKC game last night.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:59Bill Simmons?

  I went to Clippers Nuggets and saw just the legendary Jokic game. And I was driving home, I saw the Lakers score. And I was just like, this feels like a two man race right now. I know we're 11 games in, but those two teams are so much better than everybody else I'm watching. Is it, does it feel that way to you? It's like 2 versus 28?

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Yes, clearly. I mean, I already kind of thought that. And then it was really pounded home last night, watching OKC, waiting on the Lakers. And you know, the OKC played the night before against the Warriors. That game got out of hand by halftime. So the OKC guys only, nobody had to play more than half a game to beat Golden State. And then, so we're sitting there, we're in town on Tuesday night, we're actually out at dinner, myself, Mike, Breen, Richard Jefferson, we're having dinner and like, at the same restaurant, the entire Lakers coaching staff was there. And like, we know all those guys. So we were like, talking to them a little bit. And I could tell like, they were, they were excited about the fact that, you know, they were in town, they're, they had just beaten Charlotte on Monday. And

• 4:03Speaker 01

  I think with Luca rolling the way he has been, Reeves playing the way he was, I will, it just felt like they were looking forward to this challenge. And let's see where we are really, by playing against this elite defense. And I tell you what, man, when you watch Oklahoma City play with that kind of adrenaline, when they're on their, up on their toes, to the extent they were at the start of this game, there's nothing like it in the league defensively. There just isn't anything like it. And they can so dispirit you. That it really starts to affect you on the other end of the floor, which is what I thought happened to the Lakers because they had nothing going at all offensively, really from about

• 4:45Speaker 01

  mid first quarter on. And now on the other end of the floor, they just became just really passive and they were the lacking concentration in Oklahoma City got whatever they wanted on the other end of the floor. But it started with what they did to them defensively. And when I you see that up close, when you're sitting there and you're taking it all in, how deep they are defensively, everybody is accountable to each other. And Jalen Williams isn't even playing in the game. Aaron Wiggins isn't even playing. And they're doing that to the Lakers with those two guys coming in that hot, they completely dismantled them. And so, yes, Bill, to answer your question, it's for me, it's OKC. I think they deserve

• 5:29Speaker 01

  the respect to say they're on a different shelf than everybody else. The question is, who can who can close the gap with them the most? That's really what we're talking about. And right now, Denver has separated themselves from everybody else.

• 5:43Bill Simmons?

  So you have OKC, then Denver, then everybody else?

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 5:48Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  I do. I, you know, I just, I just am looking at this. Look, if you think about this, they won a championship and they would be sitting here at, what, 13-0, 12-0, however many games they played. They pull a 20-point lead to Portland on the road and they were up with five minutes to go.

• 6:06Bill Simmons?

  I watched that game. They should have won it.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, if they if they win that game, they're undefeated and they're missing their second-best player. It's incredible, really, what what they've been able to do. I said to some fans, I was leaving the arena last night, and of course, Oklahoma City fans are the best. They're just the nicest people in the world and they win a lot, so they feel good. But still, they're just nice people and they're just like, hey, man, you know, what do you think of our team? And I said, you know what? I think I think what I just watched is when the best team in the league plays their best and their hardest, that's kind of what it looks like. That's what happens to people. You're incapable of getting anything easy offensively and eventually that's just going to wear you down. That's what they did to the Lakers last night.

• 6:51Bill Simmons?

  Shay had a really good quote a couple of days ago about. He, even though they won the title, he didn't feel like they played their best.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:59Bill Simmons?

  And he was kind of frustrated because he felt like they let some, left some stuff on the table and they didn't get to where he thought they should be mentally. And he's been approaching this season as we can still go up a level. I think you, if you go back and read the great championship teams and I was like, one of the teams I always like to look at is the 92 Bulls. Cause they win in 91, but they're like that young up, up and coming contender. They finally get over the hump against Detroit. Then they have that Lakers series, they're not favored in the Lakers series and they kind of, as the series goes along, they really figure it out. And by the end of the series, you know, they're the best team. But then they rolled that over to the next year and they just killed everybody in 92. Like they, that was probably their best regular season team until the, the last three Jordan teams.

• 7:44Bill Simmons?

  Um, I thought that might happen with OKC. Without Jalen Williams though, that's the part that I'm, I don't want to say confused by, but, but like pleasantly surprised by. Because this, this AJ Mitchell, being able to come in and just be, just be this immediate, like 16, 17 points a game, steady offense. It's not like he's a three point shooter. He's like a crafty guard. He could kind of do a Shay impersonation a little bit if they need, like if Shay misses a game, he could probably get in and get 25. But they're, they're so freaking deep that when, when Jalen Williams comes back, I don't even know who loses minutes. I guess they can just kind of mix and match and be like, here, we'll just play these nine guys today.

• 8:27Bill Simmons?

  But, um, it's about as deep of a team as I think we've ever seen.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Well, and I want to tell you this, so about AJ Mitchell. And, and they knew he could play last year. He, he, you know, he was given at different times, he'd get some, some minutes and get an opportunity, get some runs. A little bit, just enough to see him. They knew he could play and you could tell by talking to Mark Dagnall, as much as we saw him last year, I felt like I was, it was like a second home. I was in their building so much last year.

• 8:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  Um, and you, you got the impression they kind of knew. But I'm telling you, even by what they thought they knew, A.J. Mitchell has surpassed that. A.J. Mitchell is a big time guard. He really is. He goes seven for 11 every game. And it's like, it's like, I'm watching this guy and I'm going, first of all, I didn't, I didn't, I knew that he had, could do some of the things off the dribble and is like mid-range and finishing at the rim is like pretty good. I did not know he could shoot the ball this effectively from deep. So, so there's no real set game plan on him now defensively when he runs ball screens because I thought it would be like, go under, let's see what he's capable of making. The guy's making everything from the perimeter. He's

• 9:37Speaker 01

  got to burst, like to accelerate past you. He's got incredibly strong base. And I was watching him last night, just how balanced he is at all times. He's incredibly strong. His, his trunk is so strong. So when guys are trying to put forearms into him and get him off his spot, he plows right through it like it's nothing. You're sitting there with Jalen Williams. Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention, a first team all-league NBA defender didn't even play last night in Lou Dort. And then you've got, you've got Jalen Williams not playing, right? So, so what do you have? Well, you got Kason Wallace, one of the best on-ball, up-the-floor perimeter defenders in the NBA. You've got Alex Caruso, who's the number one rated individual defensive player in the league. And by the way, A.J.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Mitchell is the second highest rated individual defensive player in the NBA. Guys, guys make 30% of the shots against him that he contests. So, and I was talking to Dagnall about this before the game, and he was saying, what a luxury he has, that he never has to look out on the floor and say to himself, do I have enough offense? Do I have enough defense? He just plays his guys and both ends are covered because they don't have any weak links. They don't have any. All of those guys compete. They all get after it, ton of want to, and then the physical attributes that you need, like the speed, the strength. And, and of course, he's, you know, he's got a brilliant game plan, but the way that they flood

• 11:05Speaker 01

  to the lane on penetration and I'm, I'm watching the Lakers saying Lakers fifth in the league in points in the paint. They have to score in the paint or at least touch the paint with Reeves or, or Doncic. That's the way their team is built. They're a low volume three point shooting team. They, they don't take a lot. They don't make a lot. And guess what? Against OKC, you're not scoring in there. There's a 16 point discrepancy going into the game between what the Lakers get every night in the paint and what OKC gives up every night in the paint. Something's going to give and most nights against OKC, it's the other team that gives and it was again last night. The Lakers had like, they had like 20 points in the paint at almost the end of the third quarter. They

• 11:47Speaker 01

  averaged 53. So that's what OKC did to them last night. And now here you've got this other guy, Mitchell, that's now a starting with Jalen Williams out, that's turned into this incredible two-way player. And it's just, it's, it's absurd. Like the number of guys that they can throw at you that can produce on both ends.

• 12:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the, the Lakers, I think the really athletic teams are going to be a real problem for them. Cause I thought if the Atlanta game, even though Atlanta is a completely different team than OKC, it was a little bit similar. I think if you're going to really ratchet up the athlete against the Lakers, I think they're going to have some issues. I gotta say this one thing about Mitchell, and I don't say this lightly. I'm not a crazy hyperbole person. The way he's playing reminds me a little of when Brunson was on Dallas and you would, but before we really, you know, way before he became Nick's Brunson, way before that one series when Luca was out and all of a sudden he was carrying them. But Brunson had this stretch on, on those Dallas teams where you would

• 12:48Bill Simmons?

  watch him be like, is this guy really good or am I crazy? Right? It's, could this guy be the lead guard on a really good team or am I crazy? And you just watch him and he was so comfortable and he could, he was like this finished product and he was kind of this luxury on the side for the Mavs. And I just wonder like with Mitchell, I'm sure these other GMs are looking at this Thunder team going, there's no way they're going to keep all these guys. They're going to be able to pay Kason Wallace $30 million a year. They're not going to be able to pay Mitchell in a couple of years. So I'm sure like all these other teams must be scavengers. Like, could we build an offense around AJ Mitchell? It seems absurd, but. Who knows? The Brunson thing seemed absurd.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  You're right. And we were actually having that conversation just amongst us last night. Like after we did all the pregame interviews and everything, we were kind of just sitting around looking at the roster and saying that exact thing. Like right now, A.J. Mitchell's going off. He's been incredible, but you've got Jalen Williams sitting over there. Dort didn't play last night. Aaron Wiggins is a really important player. That's three guards. I just mentioned three guards. And by the way, you're, you know, every night he's got to find 20 to 24 minutes for Caruso. You just have to. His plus minus is incredible and he's just a winning player. And he made some plays last night that kind of really defied logic defensively. The amount of ground he covers and the challenges he takes on. And of course, then you've got Shay there as well. And Isaiah Joe is a guy that shoots 40% from the three and guards.

• 14:09Bill Simmons?

  Playing really well this year.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  He's playing great too. So I just mentioned six guys, all of whom, and this is, this is almost really unheard of, all of whom can make a legitimate argument, they need to be playing at least half the game. And obviously in the case of your star, he's playing 35, 36. Jalen Williams will do the same. So those other four guys, they all have a right to lay claim to those minutes, but you can't do it. So how do you think it's going to play out down the road? At some point, I think the A.J. Mitchell find, one of two things is going to happen. He's either going to get so good and do this all year, including through a two-month playoff run and like have big moments in the finals where he starts to go, you know

• 14:53Speaker 01

  what, man? I kind of think I'm good enough to be like, have my own team.

• 14:57Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Not necessarily as like, you know, a superstar, although who knows? But, but I'm just saying like, my team starter 35 minutes, give me the ball. I'm running the show, not playing off of these other two great players that are in front of him. Or. They're going to decide, you know what, we have to lock this guy up. It's going to obviously affect a guy like Kason Wallace, affect a guy like Wiggins. It's going to trickle down to those guys. And look, teams that win titles, Bill, you know this, very difficult to keep those fringe rotational players like intact. So those guys typically find greener pastures because they get more money to go somewhere else because they're champions and they're good players.

• 15:36Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  A.J. Mitchell.

• 15:37Bill Simmons?

  Especially in the apron era.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:39Bill Simmons?

  Like you're not, you're not keeping all these guys anymore.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Can't do it. A.J. Mitchell to me is too exciting of a prospect to think about them making the decision that they would go in a different direction and move him or something. It's not going to happen that way. It'll be because he comes to the determination and his camp and his corner that like, you know what, I'm actually better than, than being a guy that's like in the rotational mix of guards on a great team. Maybe I'm good enough to be a 20-point scorer, 35-minute guy on my own, really good team. And, and we'll see how that's going to play out over time because this is all just happening so quickly for all of us watching this.

• 16:17Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  It's like now it's expected. I expect this guy every night to go off and he.

• 16:21Bill Simmons?

  I'm glad you feel that way because I didn't know if I was overreacting watching it. Because it's not like, like the Celtics played the Sixers the other night and Edwards came, just, just got red hot on the Sixers, right? If you just watch one game, you'd be like, wow, that guy's amazing. He's not going to do that every night.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:39Bill Simmons?

  Mitchell's steady. Mitchell always gets the same types of shots and plays with a certain pace and is always in control of what he wants to do. And I, I just, I gotta be honest, like why, I, I just can't believe they stumbled into this.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  It's incredible.

• 16:55Bill Simmons?

  Watching them the first four weeks is like, where this guy was on their team last year? I didn't notice him. I didn't realize he mattered.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  One other thing about him that really suits him well here, the situation for any young guard trying to find their way in the league, like when they first get their, their, their legit run, they are so often playing with numbers and playing in the open floor because of what they do to turn you over. So like the decision-making for him is so simplified and a lot of the damage he does is an initial push up the floor. Or if he sometimes a couple of times last night, that initial surge took place. The Lakers were able to at least fend that off. And now here he comes into like the trail over the half court.

• 17:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Ball gets swung to him and he is so quick and explosive to put it down on the floor and just attack you. And he's right back in the lane or or catches two to three. Did one of those on a trail three last night. So like their space that they have offensively for so many possessions in the game. It it helps young players find their confidence and rhythm rather than have to like kind of slug it out in a half court setting all the time where maybe some of your weaknesses can be exposed. Right now, like they're they always have numbers and that really helps him.

• 18:05Bill Simmons?

  It's when you think about, so they won 68 last year.

• 18:10Bill Simmons?

  Their over under heading into the season, which was one of my locks, was 63.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:16Bill Simmons?

  And the regular season record, Fando has them 13 to one to break the regular season record. And three to one and win 70. I think the case for them to win 70, on top of the fact that it's only two more than they won last year is they could lose any guy in their lineup, but I think they'd be fine for a couple of weeks, right? Even like Shay, who is a historically great guard, having another awesome year. I feel like if he was gone for three weeks, they'd be able to patch it together with a lot of offense and and with their defense. Probably be okay, whereas like if Denver lost Jokic. Now we're having a different conversation. The defensive stats with them, I know it's early, these are all small sample size stuff.

• 18:57Bill Simmons?

  But their per 100 possessions, 103.4 is the rating and the next team is 109.4 Denver. To be six points lower than everybody else defensively, like that's like a whole other level. And as you said, they really should be undefeated. So, yeah, they are still the favorites. They're the betting favorites. I don't really see scenarios where they're not going to be hosting the Western Finals. And what's crazy is they have the Clippers pick, the team I saw last night that I think is three and eight or three and nine. In a generational draft with at least three franchise guys and then three other guys that everybody thinks that another year would have been number one pick and they're just

• 19:41Bill Simmons?

  sitting there with this pick and they might have struggled yet again.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you know, so I guess it was the game was last night, tonight, apparently, I guess Sam Presti was being honored going into the Oklahoma Hall of Honor. And I made a joke on the air last night. I said, man, you got to win a championship to get in. Like, I would have thought that guy would have already been in there. Like, they really, they really hold you in a high standard in the Oklahoma Hall of Honor. I was like.

• 20:05Bill Simmons?

  The Klay trade should have been in there after that.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. But so we were just talking about him a little bit on the air and just like he, and he, you know, some guys say things as people that run teams and make personal decisions and, and it sounds cliche-ish. When he says like, they made a commitment to draft character and draft people. And, and obviously you're not, that doesn't mean you're gonna, you know, forego talent, but you want both. It really is incredible how much it's reminding me of what happened in San Antonio because you had, you had three guys, elite talents, but more importantly, great teammates, workers, selfless, didn't

• 20:45Speaker 01

  care about the limelight, not an ounce of diva in them, extremely coachable, wanted to be coached, in fact, allowed their head coach to get into them when they needed it. And, and now you look at this situation with, with Shay and Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren, they got their three and they're all great dudes. They legitimately buy into each other. They buy into accountability for one another. So it really is so.

• 21:13Bill Simmons?

  It's gross. Stop praising them. It's, I'm gonna throw up. We might be stuck with this for 10 more years.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  I know. And people, it's so funny too, because people like, they want to just attack you on social media if you, if you're like praising a team. And I'm just like, what do you want me to say, man? Like, like they are, like, first of all, also, I want to say this, like, as a, as a, as I'm a broadcaster, I'm also a fan of a game of basketball. They, the way they play, I'm a fan of the style. I'm a fan of the way that they play the game. It's fun for me to sit down and watch them. And then, you know, they just happen to do it at such a high level that, and I agree with you, by the way, like as far as missing guys or guys, they're already proving that right now with who they're missing. They can have guys go down. No biggie, man, because their defense will carry the day.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Every night, we were joking at halftime, this game got out of control. We're going, okay, at what point do these two teams like emptied their benches? And I'm like, I don't know, man, not too early for the Lakers because the OKC guys that you put out there on that second five play every bit as hard. Like they're going to get into you defensively that this thing could go from 25 to 45, 50. If you don't keep some guys on the floor that can handle the ball for the Lakers.

• 22:28Bill Simmons?

  Wow. When was the last time we said that?

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 22:31Bill Simmons?

  It's, you know, I think for the, it's one thing to win a title, right? I think anybody can win a title once. If you have good players, you have some luck, you have some help, you have one great star. I feel like they've actually changed the league a little bit and Indiana gets a little bit of credit for this too, with how hard they play, picking up full court, some of the stuff they're doing defensively that's just different. And I think, again, Indiana was the other team that was really trying to pick up 94 feet. The last time you were on, we were talking about just some of the trends that we're seeing early and how some teams are just trying to pick up the pace and just, but it all stems from them and they do it by far the best. And they can affect whatever

• 23:13Bill Simmons?

  whatever they want. They're like, you know what? The pace of this is too slow. Let's ratchet it up. And they can just do it. Right? And then on top of it, they have this generational guard who,

• 23:26Bill Simmons?

  it feels like he's getting better and his stats are the same. I don't even really understand it. It just feels like he's 3% more comfortable every two months as a scorer. I feel like at the end of the game, he's going to get any shot he wants.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:39Bill Simmons?

  And, you know, you came in, what year did you come in the league?

• 23:42Speaker 01

  90. 1990.

• 23:45Bill Simmons?

  What year did you leave?

• 23:46Speaker 01

  2000.

• 23:48Bill Simmons?

  All right. So you went prime Jordan, early Kobe, but Kobe wasn't Kobe yet. But then you were, you were in media.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

• 23:56Bill Simmons?

  I mean, to me, Shay, to me Shay is on that, on that level, right?

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Years and Jordan won six championships. So I'm like, that's great. Thanks, man. You know, thanks.

• 24:05Bill Simmons?

  Thanks for that, MJ.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Thanks for giving the chance. Yeah.

• 24:08Bill Simmons?

  But I think Shay, when you start putting together year after year of this, you have to enter that conversation now. And I'm not saying he's better than those guys, but I'm just saying, if you're making a list of the, the best, the best guards of the last however many years, I think, I just think he has to be on there now.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  His. He has developed, first of all, first of all, to your point, what he's doing right now is so casual and easy. Yeah, that's the thing. It's so easy. What he's doing right now, um, you know, he had a 30-10 game last night, 30 and 10, basically through three quarters. And it was so easy and casual because he has, he has the ability to get his favorite shot. Whenever he wants it, pretty much. It's very rare that someone can stop that step back midi or, you know, he's making, he's making the step back three now too. But it's really that shot from, from 12 to 20 feet.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  That's the shot that he gets and primarily going left. And he gets it whenever he wants because he uses your own leverage and determination to stop his penetration against you. And he stops so quickly and so abruptly that it's almost impossible to time that up. Every now and then I'll see a guy do it really well, or sometimes we'll go to the step back and a guy has timed it so well and anticipated it with length. You gotta have length that their arm is up and now he kinda, he'll stop and he's maybe trying to get the bump, doesn't get that where he has to swing it and then go get it back. But I'm telling you, that happens like only a couple of times a game. When he wants it, he gets it, even against the elite guys.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  And so now he's in this place where you have to sell out to stop him. And that is when now they start raining some threes on you because they're not a really super high volume three point shooting team either. But when they start stringing threes together, that is when they look to me like there's no team in this league that can beat this guy, these guys four times in a seven game series. When they're making threes. So that's a decision you have to make as a coach. Sell out to him a little bit more, force the ball out of his hands. And then these guys are so smart playing four on three that they will find the open guy and they've got slashers, they got lob threats with their bigs. They've got guys that can shoot wing and corner threes. They make the right decision. They will turn it over. Someone takes a shot.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Now, if you get them on an off shooting night and you took it out of Shay's hands, you got a chance. But it's rare that anybody's able to pull all of that off. You've got to have the scheme and the personnel and the want to. That's a lot to ask against a guy as good as Shay Gildes Alexander.

• 26:55Bill Simmons?

  The footwork, you know, like if you go back and you watch like the old Bobby Orr tapes from 50 years ago and just watch him skate and he's just skating differently than everybody else. He's just faster and more coordinated. And it's like, wow, that guy's just different. And then Connor McDavid now is same thing. There's all these fast dudes in the NHL and just something about how he moves is just different. And we've seen, usually we talk about big guys with footwork, right? It's like McHale and Hakeem and Tim Duncan. And I think with Shay, I don't want to do the thing where it's like, we don't give Shay credit enough. I'm not saying that. It's just you don't think of the footwork when you think about him because of all the other stuff he's doing. But what you said before

• 27:36Bill Simmons?

  about how he just stops, that's like his cheat code. His ability to just completely stop his body and then go in a different direction as he's using somebody's leverage against him. I don't know how he stop it. I don't really know what the answer is defensively.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  You have to guess. And what I see, what I do see when guys try to guess is, and they're not fully committed to retreat mode and they're more upright because they're trying to time that up. That's when he ends up blowing right by you and he's at the rim or he's throwing a pocket pass or a lob to Holmgren or Isaiah Hartenstein.

• 28:09Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Or if that big, you know, you play it perfectly on the, underneath the basket on the second line, perfectly. Big comes over to help, so he can't get to the rim. Opposite wing defender drops down and chips on the big. So there's no lob that, well, then he throws the pass now over to the right wing, which is the open area of the floor. If he drives down the left side of the lane or he'll throw it back to the left corner. Like he'll make that play. I call it the late find. He makes the late find now really, really well when his option is exhausted for himself. But more often than not, he's at the rim with something soft up on the glass. And if you are in full commitment to try to get

• 28:52Speaker 01

  back and cut him off because you're so worried about the blow by, that's when he stops. And, and then he basically sidesteps or back steps. It's about, by my guess, six to seven feet. So.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  And he's six, six. It's not like he's five, 11 doing this where you can maybe have a chance to get back. He's six, six as it is. So that, but the, the, the, the quickness with which that right foot hits the ground and then he is off the ground. After he has stepped back, that amount of time is just so tight to pull all of that off perfectly. It, it, it requires like a special effort on that possession. And then guess what? By the way, if you do that, I got news for you. The next time down the floor, he's going to do it again and you won't be as good at that as stopping him. So because he's just going to keep coming at you.

• 29:40Bill Simmons?

  On TV, it doesn't do it justice. I hate to do the, you gotta see it in person thing, but it's one of those things you see it in person and you're just like, I don't understand how anyone would stop that. Now I guess you would probably use somebody taller, maybe three, four inches or like a six, nine guy with longer arms. Maybe, but how many guys?

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Ideal. Like if you could.

• 30:01Bill Simmons?

  How many guys are there like that? Tatum did an okay job against him.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  You just, you basically just described like, you know, well, if we could just put Scottie Pippen on him. Like, you know, we would have a chance. Like, cause that's what you're talking about. Six, eight, six, nine. And Scottie might even have been longer than that with incredible reach. And then just a whole lot of like defensive instincts to, to, to want to time it up and play a guy like that. He wears you down, man. Their whole team wears you down. And by the way, I want to say, obviously last night, you know, Lakers came in pretty, feeling pretty good, hot, offensively clicking. And they didn't have LeBron James. Let's just be very clear about that. You still have LeBron James sitting over there.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Which is going to affect the force with which you can play against OKC. It's going to affect your points in the paint that you need, your paint touches that you need to make your offense go. All of that stuff. So this isn't the best version of the Lakers, but it was a team coming in that was somewhat rolling offensively. With two, with, with, you know, a superstar off to one of the best scoring starts in the history of this league and Luca. And then another guy who's turned himself into a star player in his own right in Austin Reeves. And neither guy had any success going where they wanted to on the floor last night.

• 31:18Bill Simmons?

  Plus, it was a happy week for them because they, we finally have a verdict. It seems like they might've won the Luka Doncic trade.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:25Bill Simmons?

  Think it's finally, we can finally, finally come up with the winner. It took.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  Hey, can I, can I just say, I didn't need nine months.

• 31:33Bill Simmons?

  You did nine months?

• 31:34Speaker 01

  I didn't need to deliberate for nine months.

• 31:36Bill Simmons?

  And I'm still on the fence.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  If I was on that jury, okay, I'm, I'm literally handing in the verdict like within minutes after I heard the news.

• 31:47Bill Simmons?

  I think if I was a Dallas fan, I'd be more mad that we didn't get Reeves in the trade.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:52Bill Simmons?

  Than about the actual trade. I'd be like, it's one thing how stupid it was to trade him, but I just, why didn't we get Reeves? I would just, I would go to bed at night. That would be like one of the three final things I thought about before I fell asleep. We gotta take a break and then I want to come back because we didn't talk about Jokic yet. We just did like 25 minutes on, okay, so take one break here. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel is putting you in control right from tip off. That's right. You get to choose your award. Play it safe, go for it. Feeling bold? That's your move. Whatever your style, you're in control. No matter how you play, FanDuel is giving you the power to choose your award and own your game this NBA season, which we still have, I think, seven eighths of the season left. So you have plenty of time to own your award.

• 32:36Bill Simmons?

  Head to FanDuel.com/BS to make your pick, get in the game and play it your way. Must be 20 plus, present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt-in required. Rewards are non-mudragable. Restrictions apply, including bonus and token expiration leg requirements and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Game, problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. All right, coming back. Somehow this isn't the number one story we're talking about. I went to a Clippers Nuggets game last night. I don't know what was going on with Jokic because you could see it from the beginning. I don't know whether he was mad about the playoff series from last year.

• 33:20Bill Simmons?

  If Zubac texted him something joking that he took personally. If he heard something in the second row that made him mad. But he was in playoff mode and pretty early in the game, it became clear the Clippers had this strategy of is I call it the 2005 Spurs against Steve Nash strategy of like, you left a pass, so we're going to take your passes away and you're going to have to score to beat us. And Jokic was like, this is really what you guys are doing and just torched them. He had 25 in the first quarter. He had 52 after three and it was every kind of shot. And I'm just trying to think what's different about him this year? Just from what I saw, just being at the game, it feels like he's making the decision

• 34:03Bill Simmons?

  to score like a like a infantile infinitesimal split second faster versus like, I have the ball, I'm going to think about, and now I'm going to make my move. This time he's just like, I'm scoring. He has all these different shots. He's in great shape. And he was just unbelievable. And the crowd was like gasping. When he got into the 40s and he started, you know, in the crowd, when they're the crowd starts making that noise like, ah, like, we can't stop. No, oh my God, what do we do? It was just a lot of gasping and he just murdered them and they really needed the game. What's different about him? He's

• 34:46Bill Simmons?

  shooting 68%. He's on pace to be our first 60, 40, 80 guy. He leads the league in NBA in rebounds and assists. He's 60 points. He's taking three shots less a game and he's still averaging a 29, 13 and 11. And he has a 21 net rating plus. So in other words, typical Jokic, but slightly better. But what are you seeing anything that's different?

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. So

• 35:12Bill Simmons?

  What is it?

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Here's what it is. He absolutely 100% is fresher. And their acquisition of Valanciunas is one of the real underrated signings in this league because when he would go out of the game before, think about the backup centers that he's played with since he's been there, right? Over the last five, six years. So when he would go to the bench, like, they felt so inadequate offensively and everything they were going to do, it just it ends up presence and on the glass that He rarely would sit as long as he's sitting now with his second sub in the second half. So basically from the start of the fourth quarter, he would usually get about three minutes.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  And he's back in the game because he had to be back in the game because now the game's on the line. You've got nine minutes to go win this game. And you only have so many of those nights that you're going to be able to be in that position to go win the game right now. The one possession game now, this is two games in a row. I just watched every second of their last two games. He sat the first six plus minutes of the fourth quarter. So, and it's also in the first half. His minutes are down to 33 minutes a game. He's got, they have gotten more depth. They've got more spacing around him. He feels better. I think he's invigorated by the fact that they're back in the mix.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Even though they took Oklahoma City to seven games a year ago, I don't think anybody really viewed Denver all year as a contender to actually win the title. And I know they gave them a hell of a series. This team with what they did in the off season, this feels like, you know what? It wasn't just a one championship run with the Denver Nuggets, which a lot of people thought was going to be more than that when they first won their title. I did, I thought that's not a one championship group. But then you started to think after last year, like maybe it was, they completely hit the reset button with their depth. Their bench was not good enough last year. It is now, it takes a lot of pressure off his shoulders. As a result, he's fresher. I agree with you because he's fresher.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  He's, he's, he's processing his own scoring opportunities in an aggressive manner. That's quicker and more decisive than when he's a little bit fatigued and he immediately goes into looking around in that dribble handoff game. When he's feeling like he is now and you're going to play him a certain way, he's going to go eat. And that's basically what he did last night. First of all, I, there's no way I'm playing Jokic straight up as much as they did last night.

• 37:38Bill Simmons?

  It was crazy.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  I mean, he just, he just, oh, here we go. It looked like a guy in the driveway with his kid.

• 37:43Bill Simmons?

  They gave Zubac a little too much credit, I think, because he had some good moments against him last year. So like, well, we could try this because the zoo and he just. He annihilated Zoo and then he was even meaner to Lopez.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, and look, and you're talking about two guys like Zubac, I believe, but he was on one of the all defensive teams last year.

• 37:59Bill Simmons?

  He was, he was great last year.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  Like third team all defense or something.

• 38:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Lopez has been on the all defensive team in this league. Now, he's older now and he's more of a rim protector than he is like guard guys one on.

• 38:09Bill Simmons?

  I think he retired after last night. I didn't, the official announcement didn't happen.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  And somebody made a good point on it. It's all social media. Like they're like, they watched every shot he made and they're trying to see like at any point did he hit the rim?

• 38:20Bill Simmons?

  Like. No.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  The display of touch.

• 38:23Bill Simmons?

  Right in the middle of it. It's unbelievable.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  And look, last night he was, uh, he missed three of his first four shots and then he just went 17 for 19. Somebody sent me and I'm trying to find it because have you seen his shooting splits from distances?

• 38:38Bill Simmons?

  He's, isn't he, um, I think he's like 70% on twos or something.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  No, here, here, here's what he's shooting. Yes. 70, he's like 78% on twos. He's, here's from distances, zero to three feet. This is prior to last night. So I have a feeling it went up.

• 38:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Okay. Zero to three feet. He's 92% from the field. Okay. Three to 10 feet, 70% from the field. 10 to 16 feet, 73% from the field.

• 39:07Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  16 feet out to the three point line, which is a very small sample size, but he's, he hasn't missed all season. And then he's shooting whatever he's shooting from the three, which is like, uh, 41% from the three. Good luck.

• 39:21Bill Simmons?

  Well, you talk about the fatigue thing because I was thinking about that too yesterday and he had a quote. I think it was last night, but I saw in the last 24 hours about the bench. They're like, what's different about? The team this year? And he's like, we have a veteran bench. We have experienced guys that come in now. I feel like I'm in good hands when we go to the bench. He said, he said something like that. I don't, don't quote me on the exact thing, but I was thinking like. He goes to the bench last year and it's stressful when he's on the bench. Right? You're on your bench, you're resting, but you're also like, I hope we don't fuck it up. Do I have to go back in? Now he's just like, I'm gonna go to the bench and relax and hang out and watch these guys and we'll be fine.

• 40:01Bill Simmons?

  And I just, I saw a guy last night that was, that really liked the team he had and really had an edge. You know, like, like, there's no question, there's some Wemby stuff happening. There's the OKC thing, there's a lot of Yanis talk, there's Houston and, you know, he's like, not that he's reading the clips, but I, I really think he believes in the team they have. What's interesting is Cam Johnson has sucked from a shooting standpoint this season. And Brown's not shooting well either. So there's like another level for these guys to go. They're nine and two. They lost that game, first game against Golden State, first game of the year that they should have won. They had a stupid loss to Portland. Portland's beaten both OKC and Denver somehow.

• 40:45Bill Simmons?

  But I watched that game on Halloween, really dumb loss, they should have won that and that's it. Like they've been, they're second in offense, second in defense with, with rating and they're, you know, these two shooters that they thought they were gonna have aren't even shooting the ball. Well, Hardaway is, but I feel like they have a level to go up.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  They definitely do. And I think the other thing I noticed last year about Jokic, and I mentioned it several times throughout the season. He was overtly incredibly frustrated last year. Remember, remember the times that you see videos of him and he'd be standing up in the huddle of timeouts and just ranting? And like slapping his hand and he'd be so friends, sit down on the court. He got caught up in all these weird things with defenders where he was just like trying so desperately to like, get an off the ball foul by running for the cut, but like grabbing the guy at the same time where they both fall to the ground. And I'm like, what?

• 41:30Bill Simmons?

  And ref stuff too. There were, there was some ref stuff that was unusual for him last year. To get mad, which he didn't usually do.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  I think it's because he didn't think he had a good enough team to win, Bill. I really do. And I think now he believes they're back in it. This, and to think, it's hard to imagine a guy that just won three MVPs could be playing his best basketball. But I honestly believe he's playing his best basketball right now. And one last point about him. Oklahoma City's defense, which we talked about a lot here in the beginning. This is the one player in the league that I feel like can operate in a, in, in still a dominant way against them because it might not be, you know, 40 point game, but he can control the game against Oklahoma City's defense. And if you look at all the other elite scorers in this league and the way they have to go about it, they're not going to pick you apart

• 42:17Speaker 01

  with their passing. For the most part, they're not going to go get 20 rebounds if that's what it takes against Oklahoma City. So like his overall way of dominance and the way he can operate against one-on-one defenders, even against the elite guys that OKC has, he can still do his thing against them. And a lot of guys are going to struggle to have their normal average game against this defense. Jokic can, and that's why, right now, I agree with you. It's, and I, I think Houston would be the next team on my list in the West.

• 42:50Bill Simmons?

  Me too.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  But I don't think they're quite on Denver's level right now.

• 42:54Bill Simmons?

  You know, two, two notes from last night that I really was thinking about on the drive home, which isn't a short drive because the Intuit Dome is pretty far away from basically everything. Um, first of all, I think he's the best offensive player I've ever seen in person. And I don't say that lightly. I'm not saying he's the best scorer. I'm not saying he's the best player, but he's the best offensive player I've ever seen in person.

• 43:21Bill Simmons?

  He can just do everything. He sucks the life out of the crowd. You, the, the defenses don't really know what to do against him. They try these weird tactics. It doesn't work. And I just think, I've just never seen anybody better than them. And I really decided that last night, once and for all, I was trying to think about like, where is he in my top 10? Like, and he, and he's just getting closer and closer to that Bird, Magic, Duncan kind of level for me. Uh, one title I think hurts probably legacy wise. He needs another one, but he's at least like, he's at least what Wilt was in the 60s. Like the shit we're watching year after year after year. You gotta put him there. Um, the other thing is, I think he's my favorite player to see in person of this century. And it was either him or Curry.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Man.

• 44:06Bill Simmons?

  Where it's just like, I'm going to drive down on a Wednesday. They're playing here. I get to go see blank. And I think him and Curry are in the finals and I think I enjoyed the Jokic experience a little bit more because there's so much going on and he's, he's the maestro of everything and he's telling everybody what to do and he's just so locked in the way Duncan was. But it's just, everything feeds off him. It's just fucking amazing to watch. It really is.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  I said, I don't think anything you just said is remotely, you know, even somebody could come at you aggressively in a debate and say, what are you talking about? Because I completely agree with you. For me, I've put Curry second all time for just flat out must see.

• 44:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  And behind Jordan.

• 44:49Bill Simmons?

  Yes, I think that's fair. Jordan's gonna be my number one all time, removing Bird and Magic.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  And, and you know, and I got some of those up close and personal because I was on the court watching that. So it's like, you know, you just kind of know what that was about. But then, so I like the way you put it this century. So like, put that, you know, the eighties era, which you and I both love, and I love those Celtics teams in the eighties like you did. Larry Bird's my favorite athlete of all time. So we have a lot in common that way. And then, then, you know, you got the Jordan era. That's kind of his. And now you go, okay, this century then, let's, let's go. There's a lot of guys that are super entertaining that are, you know, top 10 players all time in that, in that category. For me, in terms of, holy hell, he's playing, I have to see this tonight. Curry would be the next guy for me. But I understand why somebody could make the argument for Jokic too, because it's

• 45:39Speaker 01

  at the point now, the stuff he does is blowing your mind with his. And I think for me, like, I'd say, what's his number one trait? Is it, is it the passing? Or for a big guy? Nah, for me, it's the touch. It's the touch.

• 45:57Bill Simmons?

  How about the hands? Has anyone ever had better hands than him?

• 46:00Speaker 01

  No, nobody, nobody, nobody. And I, there's some guys that would have been good people to put in that argument, but I think he now, he's separated himself from everybody. It's the best set of hands I've ever seen on an NBA player. His touch and his ability and natural sense of, of distance.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Of depth perception because he shoots the ball sometimes coming out of a spin when you know for a fact he has not located the rim yet.

• 46:25Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  And he's already going into his shooting motion and it's incredible and the ball ends up hitting nothing. It is so soft and it just drops in. So like his innate sense of touch and distance from anywhere on the court, but particularly those areas like 18 feet and in and some of the different, because he's not getting off the ground and he's still, and you still are just so helpless against his release point. It's crazy, man.

• 46:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the Curry thing, it's, it's good to talk about both those guys because I think the thing they share other than just, it just, you've never seen anything like it when you see them in person is they're just complete one on ones.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:04Bill Simmons?

  Like, I, I just don't feel like we're seeing another one again. Jokic has these, he has this Bird, Magic, Walton hybrid thing, like all guys that I grew up loving watching play basketball and somehow he has pieces of all those guys. Curry I've never seen before, but you go to the arena and you're like, I just get to see something that doesn't exist after this guy stops playing. It's just gone.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Totally agree.

• 47:27Bill Simmons?

  And that, the other thing I love with Jokic, which some guys have had, and this was one of my favorite things about seeing Kobe in person, like they just really give a shit. They just, there's like a crazy competitiveness on, on every single thing. They're always like, and I don't mean like bitching about calls, but they're always just exasperated, lobbing, pointing, pushing, like they're just really locked into the result. And I was, I was with my friend Mike Toland last night who I shared tickets with. Jokic had like 50 or 52 or 48, I don't remember. And we were arguing about, does he know how many points he has? And we decided, no. I don't think he, I don't think he had any idea because I don't think he cares. I don't think he looks up. It's not, he didn't play any differently when he had 48 points. It's not like, oh, I gotta get mine now.

• 48:10Bill Simmons?

  He was still making all the right plays and it was just really cool to watch. He would have been fine at like, ah, I guess I got 48. I don't think he would, probably finds out after, right?

• 48:19Speaker 01

  I think that's probably true. And I also think there, I think also for, for guys that score, shoot, whatever, I do think there's like an internal scoreboard in your head. Like even if you're not actively looking at the board or grabbing the stat sheet at halftime, you are sort of acutely aware.

• 48:37Bill Simmons?

  You know you're hot.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and even like the exact number pretty much. But he might be the exception. You might be right because I could see him and I you have the game be easier to see if he's out of the game like not glancing up at the board at all. No, just kind of sitting there. Here's the thing. What if, what if this game, it was required of him to play another, you know, eight minutes? He would have 65.

• 49:05Bill Simmons?

  Well, so we started rooting for the Clippers to come back because it was right around 20, near the end of the third quarter. And we're like, we need a Clipper run. We need him to have to go back in because he might be able to get 70, but they couldn't have bled.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Well, think about this. So you got two guys that we just talked about, combined five MVPs, five titles, four for Curry. And last night they scored 101 points between them.

• 49:29Bill Simmons?

  Right, right. A couple other Nuggets notes quick. You've, you've done games with them in person this year, right? Have you done a Nuggets game yet or no?

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Denver. Yeah, I've done Denver game.

• 49:40Bill Simmons?

  I don't know how, but Gordon's just bigger.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:44Bill Simmons?

  Gordon's just mammoth. And I thought he was big last year, but, and by the way, he's playing great. All his shooting stuff's up. But, you know, it's funny, like one of the narratives with the Clippers was we got John Collins because Gordon killed us in the playoffs and we needed like a forward with size. Aaron Gordon's way bigger than John Collins. He looks like he's like 40 pounds heavier and he moves and he just looks like he's a tight end. Like he looks like he should be on the Chiefs with Mahomes.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  Totally agree. Yeah. He's a, and he, it's obviously, he's serious about taking care of his body and like, what he comes into the season looking like.

• 50:22Bill Simmons?

  Moving great, the whole thing. So that was one. I thought Murray had his, Murray didn't do anything last night, but you could just tell he had his explosiveness because a year ago at this time he was out of shape. And then I really liked how Hardaway looked and that's somebody I've always liked. I was like, I think you need those random bench guys, especially in a playoff series, like in a seven game series, can you get hot twice for us? I still think he's got some, some juice left. So yeah, I would have them number two. And then conversely.

• 50:52Bill Simmons?

  This Clippers thing is a disaster and I don't know if it gets better because and I, look, I understand why they traded Norm Powell. They, uh, they didn't want to pay him. He was entering his, his final year of his contract. He wanted an extension. They didn't want to give it to him. They want to save cap space for two. I get it. They thought they tried to get smart. We'll get John Collins. We'll put Bradley Beal. Bradley Beal will give us the Powell stuff. Bradley Beal's out for the year. Ty Lou said after the game yesterday, we just lost our third best player. It's like, did you just say Bradley Beal is your third best player? Like your third best bench player or your third best actual player?

• 51:33Bill Simmons?

  Because you have Harden and Kawhi Leonard and Zubots and I'm, I'm positive Bradley Beal is better than Zubots, but whatever you can say that. Um, but this gamble just failed because what Powell did for them last year was he would carry their offense for like five, six minutes, right? Or if Kawhi wasn't playing, it's like, well, we have Harden. We're also going to get 25 from Norm Powell tonight. And now they don't have it and it's all Harden and role players. And then Kawhi plays every once in a while and this team's not going to make the playoffs. I don't think.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have a totally different feel about them now. And I saw them in the preseason and I was so impressed and Kawhi played that night. Beal didn't play, but Kawhi played that night and he, he looked great. I mean, he, he looked lean and he had, he was bouncy and I'm going, man. And, and that night Lopez played great. They played the two bigs together sometimes and that worked. It was a preseason game, but it was, it was against Denver, actually. And both teams played for about two and a half quarters to win. So it had a different feel about a preseason game. So, so you actually could learn something from it. And I walked away from that saying, man, the Clippers like they're, they're going to be kind of be in the mix

• 52:45Speaker 01

  a little bit in the West because last year they were one of the top five defensive rated teams in the league. And I loved their athletes on the wings and they, they could pressure the ball. Powell took a lot of pressure off of Harden. And Harden had a very good year because he had Powell there to go get 20 on a bad night, 35 on a good night. And Harden could pick his lane a little bit more. And then Kawhi missed half the season, but he was upright for the rest of the year.

• 53:12Bill Simmons?

  Right. He looked great.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  Right. And so you're thinking, okay. And then you got the Derek Joneses and the Duns of the world. And these guys, they're coffees and they get after people. It's like, man, okay. And now you got, you add some depth and some vets that can play. But man, oh, man. Beal might be done. I mean,

• 53:28Bill Simmons?

  Beal's done for this year.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, but I mean, he might be done. Period. You're talking about three weeks into the season, you're, you're, you're shutting it down for the year. That's man, oh, man, oh, man. Who knows where it leads with Bradley Beal? I hope not. I hope he comes back. But I'm just saying, that is pretty serious. And as a guy that has had injuries already, Kawhi hurt now, sprained knee, sprained foot. I mean, it doesn't sound like it's going to be too long, but you also go, man, you know, last year, once he came back, he kind of stayed back. And now he's, and so you thought, I said, going into this summer, the best thing to come out of last year was that Kawhi Leonard went into the summer for the first time in like, five years, healthy. So all he could focus on was like, his body and his game and not re-

• 54:11Bill Simmons?

  Sprained his ankle, right? So maybe that's, maybe he can come back from that. But yeah, just bad luck coming out of the gate.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  But it's his knee, too. They're saying it's his knee and his foot. And then so now, I don't know, I, who knows? Is it going to be one of those things where he's in and out of the lineup all the time? And now there's more pressure on Harden again, which he shouldn't have to carry that kind of load at this stage of his career. So you're right.

• 54:32Bill Simmons?

  And no heat check guy. There's no guy who's like, hey, for four minutes, can you get us some buckets here?

• 54:37Speaker 01

  No. And the other thing, 12 of their next 14 games are on the road.

• 54:43Bill Simmons?

  And the other thing, they're in the West, which has some really good teams.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. So they could, as, as, as the late, great Yogi Berra used to say, right? It could get late early out here. And it could for them, too. You're talking about, that's a month of basically road games.

• 54:58Bill Simmons?

  Three and eight.

• 55:00Bill Simmons?

  You figure New Orleans, Dallas, Sacramento, Utah, Memphis would be the five that you would say would have said before the season, maybe weren't going to be in the plan. Or maybe Portland over, but Portland feels like if, if Holiday is going to be healthy, they're going to get some guys back. Portland might be like a 500 or better team.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  They play hard and there's been some teams this year that have impressed me with that, with like level of just effort. They're, you know, who else is playing harder, a lot harder? And it's been nice to watch Phoenix.

• 55:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Last year I would watch that team and I'd go, man, this is just so bad. Like the level of effort defensively. Uh, forget the like, you know, the, some of the offensive stuff that we focused on so much with those guys trying to play together. It was more for me about, okay, well, all right, that's some rough sledding some nights because you got a weird mix of guys. You don't have a true point guard.

• 55:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  But, but how about the other end of the floor? Can you compete a little bit? They did this year that they're playing harder and I would actually put Portland in that category too. Yeah. Jordan.

• 56:00Bill Simmons?

  Phoenix. Yeah. And they have better chemistry. Obviously, you know, it's still early. They're seven and five, but that I'm, I've been pleasantly surprised. Portland feels more real to me because with Klingon and Kamara and Holiday, they actually have three elite defensive guys. I don't know if Klingon can play more than 25, 26 minutes a game, but when he's out there, you feel it. All the advanced metrics with him. Uh, he's probably the, the best rated defensive center in the league by, if you want to go deep dive advanced stuff. But back to the Clippers, like they don't have their pick. They're not going to be like, okay, fine. I guess we're going to go 25, 57. Like to me, they're the number one desperate team now. And like Zach theorized on his pod on

• 56:45Bill Simmons?

  Wednesday that they could be a Davis home. I just don't think they have anything to give up because it's basically they had the Collins expiring and the Bogdanovich expiring. They could patch together contracts, but they don't have the asset. They don't have the awesome young player to put in the trade. And I just can't, if I'm Dallas, I'm just not giving away Davis. I'm keeping him. But I do wonder like, could they start talking themselves into a Zach Levine? Could they start talking themselves into a Ja Morant? Like, like, there's guys that are gonna be out there that are glass half empty, glass half full guys. I just listed two, there's more. And it feels like somebody who can score, I think you gotta move sooner than later. Cause it's not sustainable what they have.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Well, and they're in that, they're one of those teams that, and it happens sometimes in this league, they fall into that category of they loaded up with an older roster and it's going off the rails a little bit. It kind of feels like.

• 57:39Bill Simmons?

  Kind of like a certain NFL team you might like.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, no kidding. Tell me about it. It's such, I'm so depressed. I'm so depressed.

• 57:47Bill Simmons?

  I know, I'm sorry. I just shouldn't have brought that.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  I just, I love the NFL so much and it's just, I, I just don't even care right now about watching. I'm just so depressed about the whole thing.

• 57:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  But um, yes, anyway, that's a, that's a pretty good analogy. And so when that happens, it's not like they can go, okay, we're, you know, let's go to now the next phase, which is a total rebuild, five years from L C. No, like you've got guys on your roster that you still have to, it's incumbent upon you to try to win with, but you, you don't have enough right now and you've got some health issues. They're gonna be, yeah, I would think they're gonna be actively trying to figure something out to bring an infusion of talent and scoring. Cause their offense has been terrible. And by the way, their defense was top five last year, they're bottom five this year.

• 58:33Bill Simmons?

  They could have, they could hang the banner of we won the summer of 2025, we won the off season. So that was the consensus coming out of the summer. The Clippers have won the off season. Well, Beal's, Beal's gone.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:46Bill Simmons?

  Chris Paul is, I don't think is playable anymore. I think people were excited about that for some.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  I think he had back to back healthy scratches, right? I mean.

• 58:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't, I think it's over.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:55Bill Simmons?

  Would be my guess. And, you know, you, you put that team, we talked about OKC, San Antonio, how young and scary they are, Houston, how young and scary they are. The Lakers have Luka, Minnesota, I'm not sure what they are yet. Going down the line, it's a, I think it's pretty rough for them. So I think they're a desperate trade waiting to happen. I agree. And maybe they patch some spirens together or whatever they have to do. I have to bring up my favorite team, my favorite surprise team of the year, but we had to take one more break really quick. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. And whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you.

• 59:40Bill Simmons?

  So they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This episode is brought to you by Expedia. You know how at the end of the season, your team goes to Cancun, sometimes earlier than expected? Sometimes after blowing a three, one series lead, but what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness though, hopefully your team doesn't go to Cancun. One, two, three Cancun. Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save savings vary. FanDuel puts NBA fans in control, allowing you to choose your own reward every single Friday.

• 1:00:21Bill Simmons?

  Choose between a no sweat bet versus a bet back token versus a 50% profit boost token. Whatever you want to do before you place your bets, check out the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Choose the reward that best fits your betting style. To practice choosing our own rewards, we're going to choose among three options for the following topics. Question number one. Coolest NBA cup court.

• 1:00:46Bill Simmons?

  Pacers, Knicks or Spurs? I'm going to say the Spurs. I really thought they did a good job and I can take or leave these NBA cup courts, but I did like the Spurs one. Super weird. If we're going to do an NBA cup court, let's get weird. Question number two, most likely to go for 50 plus tonight.

• 1:01:05Bill Simmons?

  Brunson's not playing, so it's between Wemby and Curry. I'd actually go with Wemby on this because I think at some point he is due for a 50-point game. He's always in the vicinity of just getting super hot and it's never quite happened. Maybe it'll happen on Friday. Question number three, most likely to win their next game first in November. The Wizards or the Commanders? I'm going to say the Wizards for this because every once in a while they could just make some threes. I don't see a scenario where the Commanders win anytime soon. And I asked House about this and he agreed. So no matter how you play, Fandals give you the power to choose your reward. Be sure to make your choice in the app on Friday. Well, let me ask you this first.

• 1:01:47Bill Simmons?

  We're only 11 games in. What's the number one thing you were the most wrong about that you thought heading into the season?

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  I would probably.

• 1:01:54Bill Simmons?

  That you would take a mulligan on?

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Probably say the Heat.

• 1:01:58Bill Simmons?

  Okay, explain.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Well, it's funny. One thing, I've been doing this a long time. I own it if I say something. And look, by the way, we're 12 games in. So this still could go either way. But and the word I used to describe them was boring. And because you're talking about, you know, of course, you're doing your normal, you know, preseason predictions and you're going out every team in the league. And I'm just like, we get to the Heat and they're just like, yeah, okay. What? I mean, like, they're gonna.

• 1:02:28Bill Simmons?

  What is this team?

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  They're gonna be 500-ish. You know, Spolstra is one of my all-time favorite coaches. So it's not that. He's gonna have them as ready as you can and as well-prepared as you can. And in-game adjustments are going to be there. But I just looked at their roster and I was saying, who do you like really love to watch play? That's really what it came down to. And that's why I made the comment. They're kind of boring. I don't think they've got enough offense, even though they brought in Norman Powell. And I'm like, okay, maybe they win a few more games because you brought in Norman Powell. I just, the way that they have to play doesn't do it for me. So I don't really consider them as like a team.

• 1:03:09Bill Simmons?

  By the way, Spolstra agreed with you.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Bill Simmons?

  Spoilers like it doesn't do it for me either. How do we have a new offense? What do I, I can't watch this again.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  So that's how I guess I'm most wrong, Bill. Not only was I wrong about just, cause look, they're seven and five. I mean, that's not earth shattering. I mean, I, maybe I thought they'd be five and seven right now. I don't know, no, no big deal there. It's how they're playing.

• 1:03:29Bill Simmons?

  It's fun to watch.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  The pace and the entertainment value that they're playing with. That caught me completely off guard. I, I just didn't see how they could do it, what they had. It's very difficult to kind of reinvent your style completely from one year to the next.

• 1:03:45Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  Um, Jaime Jaquez has really bounced back from like last year when I was kind of like, man, cause I liked him so much when he first came into the league. I knew what was going on. He looks great this year.

• 1:03:56Bill Simmons?

  Can you win most improved just because you sucked the year before and you were super disappointing? And then you became good again? Is that, is that qualify?

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  You know what? I love this conversation. So here's what I think. If you reached a level and for him, it was just a rookie year, but still he played at a certain level. And then you take a big dip and then you reclaim that plus maybe a little bit more, right? Over what you were? No, I think you should be probably disqualified from that award.

• 1:04:23Bill Simmons?

  I would say he's DQ'd. This is the guy we thought he was going to be last year and he was super disappointing. So yeah, you don't qualify. Sorry, Jaime Jaquez.

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  By the way, but that award is interesting because I was talking about this. Clearly it came up with A.J. Mitchell situation and I actually think in some ways the word is almost more about most improved opportunity because, because like A.J. Mitchell, I'm watching him play and I'm going, okay. I have a feeling he was doing a lot of this stuff last year, but we didn't see it because he wasn't really playing every night. It's not like, oh, all of a sudden he added that handle to his game in one year or, or his three point shooting. No, in the small taste we got of him last year, like there's something this guy can play. But so it's more about, he got the opportunity this year for a lot of reasons and he has jumped.

• 1:05:10Bill Simmons?

  It's a stupid award, Lex. I don't like, it's my least favorite award other than the clutch award.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Explain, explain.

• 1:05:17Bill Simmons?

  I just, how do you quantify most improved? Right? It usually comes down to somebody added a three-point shot or somebody got more minutes or, I don't know. Like younger players should get better as they keep playing and keep adding seasons under their belt.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think what you're saying is, and this is where I will agree with you. The reality is if you took 30 teams in this league, there's probably about 90 dudes that if you really looked at their game from last year to this year and what they've improved on and added and how much better players are, there literally could probably be about 90 guys you could say it about.

• 1:05:54Bill Simmons?

  So could you say it about Davion Mitchell?

• 1:05:57Bill Simmons?

  Like Davion Mitchell, I've always liked, and if I had been a GM, I 100% would have traded for at some point. I was always waiting for him to find the right team. But he didn't ever really get to play and now he's playing on Miami. So does that mean he's most improved? Or is it like what you said, is it just best opportunity? Something like that. I think they should have a where the fuck did you come from award? Cause then AJ Mitchell would be the winner.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, Austin Reeves would have won it last year.

• 1:06:24Bill Simmons?

  Austin Reeves a couple of years ago. Maybe Jordan Walsh if he can keep the momentum with the Celtics.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Maybe we can get something done, change the name of that.

• 1:06:33Bill Simmons?

  Did you see Jordan Walsh defending Tyrese Maxey down the stretch of the last Philly game? I highly encourage you.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  I watched most of the second half of that game.

• 1:06:42Bill Simmons?

  It was the most exciting moment of the Celtics season. Maxey's been lights out.

• 1:06:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:47Bill Simmons?

  Walsh shut him down, down the stretch. Celtics lost the game, moral victory, which is I guess all we're gonna get. All right, I'm gonna get my thing I was the most wrong about. And I was pretty in on, on my opinion on this team. I had the under for them. I thought they were gonna be disappointing. I didn't see it and it was the Detroit Pistons. And I've watched them a bunch of times. I was definitely wrong.

• 1:07:14Bill Simmons?

  The thing I guess I couldn't have anticipated was what happened with Duren. And I haven't heard anyone talk about this. Like you want to talk about most improved. I know he was top five rebounder. He's different this year. He's just this aggro, alpha, old school badass center who seems like he came out of like 1994. Really, really competitive, kind of relentless. And I, and I think with him and Cade, who went up a tiny level, but he was good last year. And then Thompson's getting more minutes. And that's your foundation with the way Durin has kind of evolved and emerged. The team makes sense to me. It didn't make sense to me before the season,

• 1:07:59Bill Simmons?

  but now I'm like, yeah, if you have those three guys, you have some shooters. Robinson has fit in. That was another one I was dubious of. He seems happy.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  You and I, you and I should have had a conversation then back in like August or September because I had

• 1:08:12Bill Simmons?

  You liked the Robinson thing?

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  Going into the season, I had them as high as third. I said,

• 1:08:17Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  I said Cleveland Knicks won two. However, you know, probably Cleveland won because they won 64 games last year. They ran it back. If they stay healthy, they're probably going to win, you know, in that close, that range again. The Knicks, you know, getting to 60 might be hard. So you know, okay, there'll probably be two. And then you start going with the, I broke down those, that next like five or six teams in the middle. Obviously Boston, Indiana dealing with stuff. So then you got Milwaukee, Philly,

• 1:08:40Bill Simmons?

  I had Milwaukee in that spot. Yeah.

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  I had, I had Detroit, Orlando, three, four. So Orlando's been a little disappointing for me, but I think they're playing a little bit better.

• 1:08:50Bill Simmons?

  It's coming around.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:52Bill Simmons?

  It's coming around. The Detroit thing, I, I just never thought Durin was going to be this good, even, even though I know he was good last year, but now, you know, he's like a legitimate 20, 2012 guy. He's a guy that, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I, I think they have to think about him for 2028 for the Olympics. If he's, if this is who he's going to be, because to have a center with, I think they're going to need centers with size.

• 1:09:19Bill Simmons?

  Three years from now, we're gonna need a couple like big badass dudes that can bang bodies. And he's in there for me. But what I really like about this team and Cade, Cade played football. Like he's, you know, just this really turned into this aggro kind of nasty player. I mean that as a compliment and Duren's kind of nasty, both Thompson twins, even though they, they're these handsome kids that seem like they're, but they're both of them have a little fuck you in them.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:47Bill Simmons?

  Then they have Holland, they have Stewart.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:49Bill Simmons?

  This is just like a really tough competitive team and they're competitive night after night after night. So I'm in, I was wrong. I think, I think this has a chance to be the three seed.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Well, I, I'm gonna tell you why I had a little bit also of kind of firsthand knowledge of like what I felt about them. I called one of their playoff games against the Knicks last year. Do you remember the game? It was, I believe it was game four in Detroit. The game at the end of the game, Hardaway got fouled. They didn't call it on the three.

• 1:10:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  Um, and I'm telling you, I, I was calling that game with Dave Pass and I said at one point, I think it would be easier to complete Navy SEAL training than to get to the rim right now against the Pistons in the, in this game. And the Knicks played really good defense too. That was, that was, you talk about old school, you know,

• 1:10:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  90s basketball. So I'm watching this team, first of all, just the toughness, like how physical they are. They do have an elite offensive player as their main focal point in Cade Cunningham. And then it's all these other guys that like they're with their athleticism and enough shot making. And then they went out and they added a guy that I think really helps them and Duncan Robinson, the spacing. Cause last year they had Tim Hardaway Jr., they had Beasley.

• 1:11:07Bill Simmons?

  Beasley.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  Those guys are like, but they're streaky. Duncan Robinson, if you, if he gonna take 10, 12 shots a game and, and obviously, you know, 90% of those are gonna be threes, he's gonna shoot 40%. He's gonna do it like most nights. And he, and he, and he's, look, he's, he's not a stopper defensively, but he's very conscientious defender. He's long and he doesn't mind running around and chasing guys. So his spacing's been great. And and

• 1:11:30Bill Simmons?

  And chemistry.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  Been a nice pickup for them too, because they needed

• 1:11:33Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  More offense. They needed, you know, what are we going to do on those nights when like Cade doesn't have it going? And like, our defense isn't going to be enough, you know? We can't win 105, 103 all the time in this league if Cade Cunningham has a bad night. I think they've addressed it, man. And now they've won, what, eight straight? And the game?

• 1:11:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  Actually, the game they won the other night against Washington, even though it's the Wizards. I watched that whole second half at overtime.

• 1:11:56Bill Simmons?

  I did too.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  Oh, you did? Okay. So they had no business winning that game. And the

• 1:12:00Bill Simmons?

  That's why I kept watching it because they had won, they'd won a really good game the night before against Philly that I thought was like, oh, we're, we're for real. Take us seriously. And then of course they're down 20 against Washington. I'm like, I wonder if they're going to come back from this. This will be a nice little test for what we have with Detroit. They came back.

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  They did. And, and McCollum hits the runner with 14 seconds left to go up five. 14 seconds. And they won the game on a crazy inbound three and then they went into overtime. But, but my point is, I know it's the Wizards, but that's a game that they easily could have just been like, you know what? It's just not, it's not our night. Like, it's not our night.

• 1:12:40Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  Kind of, kind of waved the flag in the middle of the third quarter. Those are the kind of games that like teams that are like coming into their own win. They find a way to win a game on a night against a bad team. When you got outplayed, you don't deserve to win. JB is about to lay into you guys when you get into the locker room. And next thing you know, you know, you do what you have to at the end of the game to get the win. It was, it was, that was an impressive thing for me for a young team to do in an 82 game season. And now here they are, man, 10 and 2, number one in the Eastern Conference. So I, I was very high on them, but I didn't, I didn't think they would be at any point like first in the conference. But they're taking advantage of some stuff with the Knicks and the Knicks are going to probably be without Brunson for a little bit right now.

• 1:13:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think it's legit. I'm all in. And I, I love Cade's experience as a franchise guy will probably never be replicated where

• 1:13:32Bill Simmons?

  He goes to a bad team and then that team craters as badly as a team can crater and that winning streak, which he took really hard and openly talked about. He's got this coach that doesn't want to be there. There's 97 things that go wrong. And now I, I just see a guy when I'm watching, flipping around TV, like he just seems like he cares the most out of anybody who's on any of the TVs. Like, I just think he's on a mission now.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  He's a leader and he's

• 1:13:56Bill Simmons?

  Which is what you want.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  He's so smooth and

• 1:13:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  He's, he's such a physical presence at that position. He gives them an awful lot of like security. They run up to the floor every night and they've already got this toughness about them, but they also know, we also have this guy that every night is capable of being the best player in this game. That gives them a lot of confidence.

• 1:14:17Bill Simmons?

  They're, they're almost more like a football team. Then the last team I want to talk about really quickly. Um, you know, Houston, it's a little early.

• 1:14:28Bill Simmons?

  The fact that Shepard is floating out there at crunch time for them, I think is super important because I was, in my head, I was like, they're probably gonna have to make a trade if they, they don't want to waste this Durant window, but they might be able to not make a trade and just keep what they have. There's a Durant piece that's happening where he seems as locked in and as happy and as

• 1:14:52Bill Simmons?

  this was not the guy from Phoenix. I'll just put that. This is a guy who seems like he's all in on this team, really likes playing with these guys, respects the coach. And I was thinking about all the different coaches he's had. He's never really had a coach like Ime.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  Very true.

• 1:15:09Bill Simmons?

  Where if, whatever, Ime's one of those guys and he definitely did it in Boston. All right. End of the meeting. Can everybody leave? I just want to, I just want to hang back here with Jalen Brown. Okay, everybody leaves. Then he locks the door. Well, only one of us is gonna leave. We're settling this. That like he's like an all time.

• 1:15:31Bill Simmons?

  In your face, direct conversation, not putting up with any bullshit guy. And I think it's actually good for Durant.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  That's a

• 1:15:39Bill Simmons?

  As dopey as that sounds.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  No, I think that's a great observation and I think it's exactly what Kevin Durant needs in this situation at this stage of his career. And, and I love that about Ime Udoka. And that's why I think this team, we know right now, you and I both agree it's OKC. Denver's right there. Houston's would be the next team, but there's a little bit of separation.

• 1:15:59Bill Simmons?

  I would have Houston and Cleveland. If we're gonna go both conferences, I still think with the way Tyson has come on for Cleveland, when they have everybody back, I still feel like they have a level to them. So I'd have Cleveland, Houston, maybe in that.

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  Houston went out and they, they added what the one thing they didn't have. And that, that because last year I loved their team. I loved watching how hard they played, but they had some really questionable decision making in close games. You know, Jalen Green is a wild card. You couldn't run your offense always through Shangoon. So they didn't know what to do. And now you got, well, we got a solution now. This is a guy that can go score at any time in the game against any, there's no answer for Kevin Durant offensively. Now, Babe Lee goes down. I said the same thing you did. I said it before the season. If, if Reed Shepard isn't ready, they might have to take a step and make a move because you didn't bring Kevin Durant thinking about the horizon over the next few years. You think about winning this year and every year he's on your roster because of where

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  he's at in his career. So they might have to do something. And Reed Shepard didn't start out great, but he's found his rhythm. And I think it started with this, and I, and this is just so important to me in watching his game. I'm saying, listen, he's, he's athletic, he's quick. He's got a really, he really gets off the ground on his pull up so he can get that mid range shot off. He's pretty active defensively as long as he's not playing against a bigger guard because those guys bully him a little bit with strength.

• 1:17:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:24Speaker 01

  But if it's just quickness, he's laterally pretty good. The one thing he wasn't doing was making open threes. And I'm like, let's start there. Get yourself to the point where Ime Udoka and this staff isn't frustrated with you because now the other things that, that maybe you're not as good at right now are going to really drive them nuts and they're going to get you off the floor. Make some open shots because that ultimately is something you're going to have to do with the guys that are generating these looks with Shingun and Durant. And so he started doing that. And now you watch him. And now he's out there to do some stuff like he's like,

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  I can play, man, give me the ball. I can get it to a ball screen. He's got a little Mark Price in his game, like with the ball screen, he kind of reminds.

• 1:18:14Bill Simmons?

  More Mark than Brent now. It was, I was worried there was more Brent than Mark, but now it feels like we're closer on the Mark seesaw.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  I agree. And it's, look, he's got a, I'm looking at this now. He's got a five game run here over the last five games. Four of those, five out of six in double figures. The last three games, he's averaging almost 18 points a game. And he is shooting 13 for 21 from the three. So he's over 60%.

• 1:18:38Bill Simmons?

  And they're putting him in the right corner.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:41Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's just interesting. I noticed it a couple of games ago. I'm like, oh, it's out there, kind of a pivotal moment here. This is interesting. And now I feel like with their best five, they just kind of need one knockdown shooter. We know this guy, defense has to think about it. So yeah, I thought that was good wrinkle. And I think Durant's just completely engaged. Like he's obviously bounced all over the map from a happiness standpoint over the last 20 years. I'm attached to him. He's one of my favorite players to watch. I don't know what happened to him last year. I don't know what happened in Phoenix. Nobody will talk. It was nobody's fault, apparently, that we had one of the most unhappy teams of this decade. But, uh, is it, nobody's to blame. But, um, but he seems really engaged

• 1:19:24Bill Simmons?

  with this team. And I think he likes these guys. And it's a no bullshit. Everybody tries. Everybody plays hard. So there's a ceiling in it. But it's weird. Reed Shepard's probably the, he's probably the litmus test for how far that team's going to go. Cause I don't, if I were them, I wouldn't want to, like I was talking about last week about Tari Eason and the Phoenix pick and Ben Velez's contract for Derek Wyatt. Like, do they have to do something like that? I wouldn't do anything. I'd ride this Reed Shepard thing out and see if it works.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  I agree with that. And, uh, right now they're feeling pretty good. They've won seven out of eight.

• 1:19:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they're, they're in the mix.

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  They've got, they've got a pretty good stretch here. Portland who plays hard, Orlando, Cleveland, Denver, Phoenix, Golden State. That's their next run. And so that Denver game Friday, November 21st, hopefully everybody's healthy and available for that. And maybe you can kind of really now these two teams that we're talking about to challenge OKC can go head to head and you can get a better idea.

• 1:20:17Bill Simmons?

  Favorite rookie before we go quick?

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  I'm going, I'm sticking with Cooper Flag, but I love what Edgecombe has done in Philly, but he's cooled off a little bit, but I still think it's all there. I, I, I'm just, I'm a big believer in Cooper Flag as a can't miss. I think he's going to be a star in this league. He, he's going to have some shooting issues this year. I knew it. Their team, obviously things are falling apart around him. So some nights it, it looks rough for him. I'm not even remotely like kind of swaying in my opinion of what I think Cooper Flag's going to end up being.

• 1:20:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm not going to worry about him until he's like 22, which is three years from now.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  Besides, uh, he and Edgecombe, who, who standing out to you?

• 1:20:55Bill Simmons?

  I love Flag. I, I, we talked about this last time, playing him at point guard was, I just thought idiotic. His roster has turned out to be a really bad roster. If you take Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving and Klay Thompson's just looks like he's washed up. Maybe he can bounce back, but we're seeing a guy who looks like he's washed up. I've been really, I love Knippel in the draft.

• 1:21:18Bill Simmons?

  I just think he looks like he's 27 years old already. I don't, like he, LaMelo's out. He's running offense for them. He rebounds. He's always in the right spots, doing the right things. And I think when LaMelo and Brandon Miller come back, because they kind of hit on Kalkbrenner. He's like,

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  Oh, no doubt.

• 1:21:36Bill Simmons?

  In actual 30 minutes a game, half decent center, but I, I want to see when they have all their guys back. Knippel is like just.

• 1:21:42Speaker 01

  I will admit, I may have missed this, I may have missed, uh, the ceiling down the road on Knippel, uh, going into the draft. I was kind of like, it's kind of like, man, this dude is really shooting up these draft boards. I'm like, he's gonna, he's gonna be a top five pick. I, I was like, wow, man. Okay. And, and now I see it. I see why. Like he's, you, you, you make the best point of all. He has a feel for the game that you just cannot, you cannot teach.

• 1:22:10Bill Simmons?

  Does not seem like a rookie. I love that he rebounds too. He's like 6.5 rebounds.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  Some guys don't show that bill until year three, four. Like he, for him to be showing it three weeks in to his, you know, his, and be started his NBA career. He's got a comfortability factor about him that doesn't really go with. Being someone his age, playing in a league full of grown men, when you with a lot of scrutiny on you as a high pick, most of those guys and they have major butterflies every night. It could last half a season, even the ones that are like playing pretty well. It's, it's just, it's different for those guys. And if can nipple, it looks like this is exactly where I'm supposed to be and what I'm supposed to be doing. So he's got a maturity about him. That's going to really bode well and he's, he's going to be, I think, better overall long-term than maybe I thought. I didn't think he'd be a bust or anything.

• 1:22:58Speaker 01

  I just didn't know that he'd be this good.

• 1:23:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we're not allowed to bet on this award, but I, I do think he's a stealth Rookie of the Year candidate because he's going to put up stats, play big minutes. Coward's been really good.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:11Bill Simmons?

  You know, the Celtics have this Ugo, I think if there's something there, he's just like the guy you hated playing pickup against where everyone's telling him to calm down. He's one of those guys, but just really athletic, huge hands in the right spots, like good instincts. I think they might've looked at, I love, I love this draft. I thought it was great. All right, Lex, you're calling what game tomorrow night? Lakers versus?

• 1:23:30Speaker 01

  No, I'm not actually, no. I'm out in LA for a studio day. I will, I'm only here to do NBA Today tomorrow.

• 1:23:36Bill Simmons?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  I'm on set with the NBA Today crew and then we have a game next week that was changed. We originally thought we were, I think, going to Miami for a game, but now it's going to be Dallas and the Knicks is my next game next Wednesday night with of course, Mike Breen and Richard Jefferson.

• 1:23:54Bill Simmons?

  All right. Thanks for popping on. It's always a pleasure to see you. Great to see you. Thank you.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  Anytime.

• 1:24:01Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right. It's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras and watch Tip Off. Plus, as the official beer sponsor of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Opening US residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2026. Ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. This episode is brought to you by NBA 2K27.

• 1:24:46Bill Simmons?

  We just had one of the craziest off seasons we've had in the NBA, which is perfect for 2K because every 2K season can be one of the craziest off seasons. The whole league shifted in real life, it could shift to an NBA 2K27. The best place to compete with these new look rosters and also try to figure out who's on what roster. You can see how new teams and new dynamic duos match up. You can play Philly, feel what it's like to have all of their new guys with the old guys. And you can also take a struggling franchise to the NBA finals if you want, because it'll never happen in real life for a couple of the struggling franchises. You know who I'm talking about. Anyway, NBA 2K lets you experience every transaction and storyline

• 1:25:31Bill Simmons?

  right from your home. Pick up your copy of NBA 2K27 right now. All right, we're going to do some Ringer 107 picks for week 11. And House and I have been struggling. We're two games under 500 through 10 weeks. House doesn't think it's struggling. I wanted to be at like high 50s percent at this point. So I'm not happy. We're sprucing up the marriage. We're bringing in Billy Gil. He joined the Ringer a couple of weeks ago. He's based in Florida. House, I just, I thought we needed to get a little weird this week and you didn't know what was going on. It's like, is this my replacement? It's just, he's here, he's, think of him like a therapist to help us work out our relationship here.

• 1:26:09Speaker 02

  I mean, you just talked about sprucing up the marriage and we're going down to Southern Florida.

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  That's interesting. We could call Bob. Let's get some recommendations in here. I'm happy to be on here with Billy. My first question, I need to know the ground rules. Am I allowed to say bad things about the Miami Heat?

• 1:26:27Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 1:26:28Speaker 02

  Is that one of these things here with Billy Gil?

• 1:26:30Bill Simmons?

  What are the red, what are the, what are the guardrails, Billy?

• 1:26:33Speaker 03

  Well, okay, this is interesting. First, I'm glad to find out that I'm here as like a therapist, because when you told me that I was being introduced into the relationship, I wasn't sure exactly my role as like the third here.

• 1:26:44Speaker 02

  I mean, it could be a massage therapist.

• 1:26:46Speaker 03

  Okay, well, if I'm just like-

• 1:26:48Bill Simmons?

  Settle down. You just met him.

• 1:26:49Speaker 03

  I'm mediating here then between the two of you maybe to make this work out.

• 1:26:53Bill Simmons?

  Mediator, uh-

• 1:26:56Bill Simmons?

  What's the word? Augmenter?

• 1:26:58Speaker 02

  Lubricant.

• 1:26:59Bill Simmons?

  Is that a noun? Is that a noun? House, you were an English major.

• 1:27:02Speaker 02

  Lubricant.

• 1:27:03Bill Simmons?

  Facilitator, gambling lubricant?

• 1:27:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:27:07Bill Simmons?

  So are we allowed to make Miami heat chokes?

• 1:27:09Speaker 03

  You can. I mean, I don't see how it's relevant to this relationship, but I'm, look, whatever, this is a safe space. Whatever you guys feel comfortable doing, I'm comfortable with.

• 1:27:18Bill Simmons?

  How about Dolphins? Cause one of the games we wanted to talk about that will not be in Ringer 107 for us is Dolphins, Commanders, which is House's team, which is one of the things. It's, it's, what is the line, House? It's?

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  Two and a half or three.

• 1:27:32Bill Simmons?

  It's been Miami by two and a half, right?

• 1:27:34Speaker 02

  Miami's favored no matter what, which is appropriate. Why?

• 1:27:37Bill Simmons?

  Should Miami be favored over anybody?

• 1:27:39Speaker 03

  Um, I wouldn't think so, but the commanders have, uh, they've been on a horrible run as of late, Joe. As you're familiar with the situation, this is a fun game. This is a game that I actually liked this week because there's a lot of things that would indicate this is going to be a bad one, which tell me it might be a good one.

• 1:27:58Bill Simmons?

  Hmm. What are the things? Is there, you want to list any of them?

• 1:28:01Speaker 03

  Okay. So both of them are three and seven, bad teams. Both of them, however, undefeated in Spain. Both have losing records internationally. Dolphins are two and five. The commanders are 0-0 and one.

• 1:28:12Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  Terrible defenses. The Dolphins though are trending up. They're 1-0 since, uh, Mike McDaniel decided to remove the Papa shot from the locker room, which he did last week. And then after the game, I don't know if you saw, Mike McDaniel was driving around, decided it would be a good idea to troll Bills fans at a Bills bar in Miami and then was questioned about that. And he said, no, you know, there's a lot of things going on with AI. So Dolphins.

• 1:28:38Bill Simmons?

  That's House's defense for everything.

• 1:28:40Speaker 03

  Everything. It's honestly not the worst defense, I guess, right? Like, cause you don't know anymore what's going on. Like I've seen, I've seen Martin Luther King win WWE championships online. Like it's crazy what's going on right now.

• 1:28:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I saw Cheetah jump into a living room and take a baby and pull the baby out of the living room and then a very small print. It was like AI. I was like, wow, I knew that wouldn't happen.

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  We have very different algorithms.

• 1:29:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. My, I'm somehow in the Cheetah baby algorithm. How do I get out of that? You don't want to know about House's algorithm. So do we think the Dolphins, are they just a zigzag every other week? They're going to be a good team or there's actually momentum with them at this point?

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  There's no momentum with this team. What, what, what could, like, the only thing the Dolphins do is win games that they shouldn't be winning at this point. Like, you have no business winning in a game against the Bills. All it's doing is costing you in the draft next season. The Jets win, okay, but again, that's not a positive win for them. They already got rid of their GM. You know that that was gonna happen. There's this weird kind of loyalty to McDaniel for some reason. Tua's gonna be really hard to move just because of all the dead cap money that he's gonna have. Like, I, as a Dolphins fan and someone who has a Tua jersey hanging on my wall, which is a strange purchase.

• 1:29:59Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God. I just noticed that. Wow, you framed it in everything.

• 1:30:02Speaker 03

  Well, it was a whole thing. He was at the Super Bowl. He signed it. He was coming off his best year, so I thought, you know what, I'm gonna commit to this. Then the framer, when I did it, told me I would not do this. He might be cut from the team by Wednesday. And I was like, I was like, dude, this, I'm trying to give you $300. And he's like, I don't know. I don't feel good taking this from you. But I did it and I, it's still there because I don't know where to put something that size, if not on a wall.

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  I get this. Like, what am I supposed to do with my signed Bradley Beal jersey at this point in my life? Right? Right? Like, I can't, I mean, I'm not putting it behind me anymore.

• 1:30:40Bill Simmons?

  House has had some amazing jerseys. He had a Bob Surra jersey that he got on early days of eBay. Yeah, it's somewhere back there.

• 1:30:47Speaker 02

  When Hayes is here.

• 1:30:48Bill Simmons?

  I got him a Tom Gugliotta jersey for one of his birthdays, like your 30th birthday or one of those.

• 1:30:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he has some good ones, the old Bullets ones, but that, nothing compared to the giant Tua jersey in the background, just waiting to be, to figure out how to be stretched on the NFL salary cap for five years.

• 1:31:05Speaker 03

  So my two hung jerseys are a Tua jersey there and a Chris Sims jersey behind me that I got on eBay for like $18 that I couldn't believe was still a thing.

• 1:31:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, what a steal.

• 1:31:15Speaker 03

  That they sold. Yeah.

• 1:31:16Speaker 02

  Game worn?

• 1:31:17Speaker 03

  Uh, no, no, no cha, I mean, you didn't play in many games.

• 1:31:21Speaker 02

  I understand. That's what I mean.

• 1:31:23Bill Simmons?

  Wait, before we move to the picks, can I ask you the seven stages of grief with Dolphin fans and Tua? When did, when did it stop being a thing that people defended and they just kind of gave into this wasn't probably happening?

• 1:31:36Speaker 03

  I, I'm one of the last people who, who gave up on him in part just because of my financial commitment to his success and my hope that one day maybe that jersey would be valuable and worth more than the frame that it's in. This year has been such a weird two year because the other years, like you kind of could find excuses, he had injuries, he had his concussion stuff. This year, he just from the start looked off and like the easy thing to say is just maybe this is the CTE kicking in because he wasn't the same guy like before, at least he'd be decisive here. He was taking too long to pass the ball. But then he'll have weeks that he'll make a throw or two throws and you're like, you know what? Maybe, maybe.

• 1:32:19Speaker 03

  And it's really just because you know, there's no way out with him. Like what do you do? You're paying him $50 million a year. You can't just get rid of him. And then even if you do, you're restarting again, which is just an ongoing thing with the Dolphins.

• 1:32:31Bill Simmons?

  See, I'm glad House is here because as you were laying that out, House was trying to figure out the best Bullets Wizard example. And what did you narrow it down to like six guys where you're in that situation?

• 1:32:42Speaker 02

  No, I was worried.

• 1:32:43Bill Simmons?

  Nothing you can do about the salary. You just are stuck with this. Just start trying to see the silver linings.

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  It's again and again and again. I was worried for half a heartbeat there that you were gonna try and blaspheme Jaden Daniels. You were gonna use that conversation.

• 1:32:56Bill Simmons?

  That I was gonna do that.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I know you motherfucker. I know how you, how you roll.

• 1:33:00Bill Simmons?

  I wouldn't do that. I didn't want a Redskins Pat's bet. I'm not, I don't need to say anything bad about Jaden Daniels. He's, he's fine.

• 1:33:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:07Bill Simmons?

  All right. So we're going to go through the slate really quickly. We're not, we're not gonna, we're staying away from Dolphins, Washington. We're staying away from Falcons, Panthers. That's just a hornet's nest that it's like, here, poke that hornet's nest with a stick. Stay away. 49ers, Cardinals.

• 1:33:24Bill Simmons?

  We might have in a tease a little bit later, so we might come back to that. House was intrigued by Packers Giants. To me, the Packers are just a stay away. I didn't like the LaFleur stuff. Once that LaFleur coach stuff starts, I just get nervous. They have a lot of, I didn't like their injury report. Um, plus the Giants with the new coach. Do you believe in the new coach theory, Billy?

• 1:33:43Speaker 03

  I, uh, I don't know about the new coach theory. I believe in the Jameis Winston will put up a game once a year.

• 1:33:49Bill Simmons?

  The stay away from Jameis theory. No, it's true.

• 1:33:52Speaker 03

  I tried to see if there was a trend on when he takes over teams for the first game. If he always wins, because it feels like you get like suckered into Jameis once a team, but there's no, sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses. He's always Jameis.

• 1:34:06Bill Simmons?

  Some guys just, there's no way to even attach a trend to them. They're just that volatile. I think Jameis is one of them. Anyway, we're staying away from that. I, I vote staying away from Steelers Bengals, especially not knowing if Rogers is the formaldehyde is officially like killing his arm. And then Cowboys Raiders, an official stay away. There's two possibles. House, you said you liked Bill's Bucks. I don't agree with you, but what was your Bill's Bucks case?

• 1:34:32Speaker 02

  Um, I've kind of moved off of it. I feel like this version of the Bucks doesn't match up with the priors, what we've seen earlier this season where they were able to come back. They really were competitive against good teams. I think this Bills team, um, with, with where they are right now, after, after waving the, uh, white flag against the Dolphins, they're ready to come in, do one of their home game things where they just get rolling and go downhill and they win by margin. Um, but you know, the, the counter to that is that the Bucks defense, um, is a decent run stop unit. And so you're like, you know, the, the Bills need-

• 1:35:09Bill Simmons?

  Those are the best run team. Yeah.

• 1:35:11Speaker 02

  They need Cook to get going so that, um, Allen can have the time because they still have, you know, poverty receiving corps. Um, but I'm fine with staying away.

• 1:35:19Bill Simmons?

  I thought the, uh, the, the Pats basically made three long plays.

• 1:35:26Bill Simmons?

  Other than that Tampa was really physical. I was, I was kind of impressed by them. I thought they gave the Pats a good game and the Pats just made a couple of great plays, got some stops, but I, I think Tampa's pretty good. Anyway, that line is Bills minus five and a half. I feel like it's a stay away because I don't trust the Bills at all. I'm like third and eight. I don't feel like they have their receiver. Would you, what did you see last week with them, Billy?

• 1:35:47Speaker 03

  You want some Baker passing stats for this one?

• 1:35:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:50Speaker 03

  That you might like. Okay. So Baker's over passing yard to just 213 and a half yards. He's only thrown for under 214 yards twice this season. Both times were against NFC South teams. Outside of the NFC South, 276 passing yards a game. So Baker's going to go off on this game.

• 1:36:07Bill Simmons?

  Oh. Yeah, I, I gotta say, House, I had the Bucks marked originally, but I wasn't sure about the Bucky Irving piece, whether they're going to be running, run the ball at all. I'm scared of Buffalo coming off a bad loss. I think it's ultimately a stay away.

• 1:36:20Speaker 02

  That's fine.

• 1:36:22Bill Simmons?

  And then Lions Eagles, we just disagreed on. Was the Eagles one of the ones you liked, House?

• 1:36:26Speaker 02

  I love the Eagles. I think the Eagles are, uh, this is a, a version of the Eagles that hasn't existed up to this point. I think the way that they won that Green Bay game, to me, it's like a, a huge, like this is who they're going to be. Um, we're back to trench warfare. They're going to try and dominate on both sides of the ball on the, on the line. And the Lions have shown us they can't compete with teams that, that, um, take them on and in, in the, in the trenches. That's how the Vikings kicked their ass, uh, on, on the offensive and defensive line. And the Vikings dominated them that way. And I, I think that, uh, the Lions are in for a repeat of that treatment at the hands of the Eagles.

• 1:37:09Bill Simmons?

  I looked at that one initially on the Lions side because they have three home games after this and there's a case for them. Like if they beat the Eagles coming off a late Monday night game, didn't look good. Sirianni was taking shit after Lions come in, move the ball, do the whole thing. Their injury report is terrifying. And I

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  The Lions injury report.

• 1:37:30Bill Simmons?

  The Lions injury report is terrifying.

• 1:37:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:32Bill Simmons?

  There's so many guys on it. And Billy, one of the things I wish we could change. I think we're bad at certain things. We've just gotten stuck with certain things. One of them is the NFL injury report where it's basically like questionable, probable, doubtful, didn't practice today. I need like more verbs and more adjectives. I need like 20, like Penae Sewell didn't practice today. What does that mean? He's the best player in their offense. Was he gonna play or not?

• 1:37:58Speaker 03

  Did you like it better like the NBA when Pop would just put old as like reasons why people were skipping it?

• 1:38:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:04Speaker 03

  But that's helpful either.

• 1:38:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Like I want more information on each guy beyond just like these basic verbs. And then we're trying to do this on Thursday and Wednesday, Thursday. But then sometimes they'll practice Friday or they won't practice and you think this guy's in and then he's out. But to me, the injury report alone is a reason to make it. Any Lions thoughts?

• 1:38:24Speaker 03

  Do you want like a scale like on injury reports? Like if you're just doing words, you have like, so this is like probable, but like there has to be then subcategories of probable. So you know, like if it's probable, it's really like 70%. Or would you rather have like a number skill, like 83% chance of playing this week?

• 1:38:42Bill Simmons?

  No, I was thinking more like nuclear bombs, like the DEFCON. Cause I watched that Netflix movie and they kept moving the DEFCON thing. And I was thinking how that like, I feel like there should be some version of that, like a sliding scale, but I think it should be one to five. So Penae Sewell, if he's not, if he's leaning toward not playing, maybe that's more like injury report two. It's like, oh shit, he's a two. But when it's like, he didn't play, who knows? Like, I don't know what to make of that. So, or maybe it's a one to 10, is he like, so one would be, he's definitely not playing. So maybe it's like a two to three. I just wish we did better. Especially with all the money at stake of podcasts like this. You don't agree, House?

• 1:39:23Speaker 02

  Well, I feel like we could do it. I mean, this is what AI exists for. Let's put AI to the, to the, to the, let's deploy it for the forces of good. Tell Chat GPT, hey, go in here, get the beat writers injury update. The beat writers are physically there at the football field spitting out information into their Twitter feeds, into their Instagrams. AI, go grab that shit. Put it into a number scale for me. Give me the breakdown. That's, that's what I'm paying for Chat GPT.

• 1:39:54Bill Simmons?

  We're still, we're just stuck with ways we did things 20 years ago. And I just.

• 1:39:58Speaker 02

  Well, you and I are, that's for sure.

• 1:40:00Bill Simmons?

  No, no, no. I'm saying like some of these things we like, we have just three judges for championship boxing matches, right? We still have only three. Why can't we have five? Why can't we have seven? Why are we just relying on these three people?

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  You know why.

• 1:40:13Bill Simmons?

  This is another one. Like we just have always done the injury report this way. They won't flip it. Just let's do better.

• 1:40:19Speaker 03

  Who are we mad at exactly? Is it like the coaches, the players, the league, the reporters? Like who is to blame for why we're in this situation?

• 1:40:26Bill Simmons?

  The teams. It's the lack of information where it's just like, he didn't practice. Okay, cool. Is he practicing tomorrow? I don't know. And then we're supposed to guess on a Thursday.

• 1:40:37Speaker 02

  There have been.

• 1:40:38Bill Simmons?

  But Asil is a perfect example. Like if he doesn't play, they have no chance against the Eagles. I don't think.

• 1:40:42Speaker 02

  We got messed up with Joe Alt that way. They're trying to make a Chargers pick earlier this season when we thought he was going to play and then he didn't. And we have the two giant butt fucks of the season where Michael Pennix looking like he was going to play on a Saturday and not playing on a Sunday. And then, and the same thing with Lamar. The Ravens, I think the Ravens got in trouble, didn't they? Didn't they have to pay a fine for, you know, he wasn't on the injury report and then he was out the next day? Like, oh.

• 1:41:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the Ravens did get in trouble. Anyway, we're staying away from Lions Eagles. Did you have any trends on Lions Eagles or either of those games? I forgot to ask.

• 1:41:16Speaker 03

  Lions Eagles? No.

• 1:41:18Bill Simmons?

  Give us, give us, before we go to the five we like, give us two trends that you had.

• 1:41:22Speaker 03

  Okay, so I've been looking into alternate uniforms this season because there's alternate uniforms for everything. There's the throwback uniforms. There's these new Nike rivalries uniforms that are going on. Alternate uniforms have not been having a good season. So if you look at the weird throwback uniforms, the Steelers horrific uniforms lose that game.

• 1:41:43Bill Simmons?

  You're saying the one, the 1920s prison uniforms, whatever those were?

• 1:41:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah, right.

• 1:41:48Speaker 03

  What'd you think of the Packers? I kind of like the helmet where it looks like the old school like leather helmet. People don't like those uniforms. People like change, it seems.

• 1:41:56Bill Simmons?

  I don't like anything when they go further than like the 1970s.

• 1:42:01Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:42:03Bill Simmons?

  Because sometimes they'll bring the old Patriots uniforms and they're really nice, the red ones with the Pat Patriot helmet. But for the most, when we start going in the 20s, 30s and 40s, I don't get it.

• 1:42:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, okay, so Nike introduced these rivalries uniforms, but they only pick like five or six teams to do these rivalry uniforms. So it's been a bad season for the rivalries uniforms.

• 1:42:23Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no.

• 1:42:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, the Cardinals were the first team to wear the rivalries uniforms in week four. They wore like a weird like, it looked like a blood splatter type thing that they had on. So they ended up losing that game to the Vikings. Then we go on to week five. The Bills had a rivalries uniform, which was a pretty cool rivalries uniform. It was like this all white. And then they had like a white and silver helmet that honestly would have looked great in a snow game like in December, but they decided to wear it way too early in the season against the Patriots. They lost that game to the Patriots. So 0-2 in the rivalry uniforms so far. The only team that's won a rivalries uniform was the Dolphins, but they beat the Jets. So that one's kind of like a mulligan. That one doesn't

• 1:43:02Speaker 03

  really count as a win. This week, we get two new Nike's rivalries uniforms. So the Patriots are going to be wearing them against the Jets.

• 1:43:12Bill Simmons?

  And we're taping before that game, but we assume the Patriots are going to win.

• 1:43:15Speaker 03

  Well. This trend would look favorably on that front and the Rams are wearing this weird one that looks kind of just like their uniform, just navy, like a darker shade of blue against the Seahawks. Here's the trend on these uniforms. So there's lots of teams losing in these alternate uniforms. Now, the Patriots have already won in Nike's rivalries game jersey. What they were, they were not wearing it, but they won the Nike rivalries jersey game. The Jets lost a Nike's rivalries jersey game. They also weren't wearing it, but they lost. So if these trends hold, the Patriots are undefeated in Nike rivalries jerseys games and the Jets are completely defeated in Nike's rivalries games. So.

• 1:43:55Bill Simmons?

  Which mirrors real life.

• 1:43:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. Bet the house on the Bills. Can you tell people or on the Patriots? Can you tell people to bet the house? Probably not.

• 1:44:02Bill Simmons?

  Well, the game already happened by the time they heard, but the Rams, the blue Rams ones, that would be the other one you're saying? That's gonna be this week?

• 1:44:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I'm not feeling as strong.

• 1:44:14Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm gonna look at those.

• 1:44:16Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:44:18Bill Simmons?

  So the, so the blue would be, oh yeah. So it looks like basically that it's harkening back to the late seventies kind of look.

• 1:44:24Speaker 03

  So it's in your window of acceptable kind of throwbacks?

• 1:44:28Bill Simmons?

  I just, I think for Rams Seahawks, wear your own normal fucking uniforms for the, one of the biggest games of the entire season. What do we need gimmicks for?

• 1:44:37Speaker 03

  Well, it's also, I think a Cooper Cup revenge game, right?

• 1:44:41Bill Simmons?

  Everybody says that. Qualify?

• 1:44:44Speaker 03

  What I've been hearing since the talk of the town.

• 1:44:47Bill Simmons?

  Can you play for an hour straight without, uh, without getting hurt? Give us one more trend before we go to our big picks. What else do you have?

• 1:44:54Speaker 03

  So power couples have been a thing in the NFL the past couple of seasons. Obviously the biggest one was Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, but there have been other minor power couples that have gone on. You had Hailee Steinfeld and Josh Allen, who now got married and that was a power couple. Josh Allen goes on and he wins the MVP. You had a smaller power couple amongst influencers, Braxton Berrios and Alex Earl, but they were a power couple at the wrong time because that's.

• 1:45:21Bill Simmons?

  My daughter was focused on that one.

• 1:45:23Speaker 03

  Was she?

• 1:45:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:45:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. She thought, she thought her perception was that Braxton Berrios was a bigger star than he actually is.

• 1:45:31Speaker 03

  It worked out for Braxton Berrios on that front. However, I think he got like seven receptions that year. So it didn't really translate onto the field for him. And again, like, had they come a year earlier, a year later, they probably would have been much bigger couple. But the whole Taylor Swift situation really ruined it for them. But this year, we have a new power couple. Madison Beer and Justin Herbert are a power couple. So this week, Justin Herbert over one and a half touchdowns is the line. He's playing against the Jaguars. Since Madison Beer released her new single on October 10th, Justin Herbert has had over one and a half touchdowns, four out of five games. The Chargers are also four and one in those games.

• 1:46:15Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:46:15Speaker 03

  And the one game that they lost, Justin Herbert passed for 425 yards, but they lost to the Colts. So do with that.

• 1:46:23Bill Simmons?

  Damn, and I like the Jaguars this week. So I went to a Laker game, second week of the season, and it was the day after they put on Thursday, and the two of them were sitting courtside. And they showed him on the video screen, and it was like half-hearted applause. Just felt like the fans should have been more excited. He's like the fourth best quarterback in the league, or the sixth best quarterback, but seemed pretty happy, stayed the whole game. I'm not, she had, she's one of those influencers with multiple jobs. So she's like singer, social media. I think she's kind of been an actress. I can't really, I couldn't really follow it.

• 1:46:57Speaker 03

  Does your daughter care about Madison Beer at all?

• 1:47:00Bill Simmons?

  I told her and she did not care.

• 1:47:02Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:47:03Bill Simmons?

  That one got a no care.

• 1:47:04Speaker 02

  Can I ask a question?

• 1:47:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:06Speaker 02

  Feels disrespectful to a power couple that's staring us right in the face. I mean, we might see them tonight. Stefan Diggs and Cardi B, that's not a power couple? That's not an NFL?

• 1:47:18Bill Simmons?

  It's tough because he had the, he said, had kids with two different women at the same time.

• 1:47:22Speaker 02

  She's carrying his baby.

• 1:47:24Bill Simmons?

  I know, but that, but then someone else is too.

• 1:47:26Speaker 03

  So are others, yeah.

• 1:47:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think that diffuses it a little bit.

• 1:47:31Speaker 02

  She shows up at the games.

• 1:47:33Bill Simmons?

  She did, she was in the.

• 1:47:34Speaker 02

  We think that she's, you know.

• 1:47:36Bill Simmons?

  She was in the craft suite.

• 1:47:37Speaker 02

  Demanding that Drake throw, throw the ball to Stefan. We think that. She celebrates Stefan Diggs successes.

• 1:47:46Bill Simmons?

  Stefan Diggs has been a great patriot. He's been a leader in the locker room and I support anything he wants to do in his romantic life. All right. First game that we're looking at here, Billy. Vikings, Bears. I think House and I both like this one. Vikings are favored by three at home. Vikings basically have their full D back and I was, I was trapped on JetBlue watching four games on the multi-view and I watched the entire Ravens Vikings game as one of the four. And I thought the Vikings were in that game, the whole game. And I was surprised how the Ravens, how, you know, it seemed like one of those games they were going to put away in the first half and they just kept settling for field goals. The Vikings were hanging around. At one point in the second half, it felt like they might actually make a run and McCarthy

• 1:48:29Bill Simmons?

  wasn't quite ready for it yet. But to me, so I think the Vikings are okay. I don't get the Bears at all. I keep track of like wins, losses in these either war games where you either, it could have gone either way. So right now the Bears are two and two and they have five either war games. Their two wins were against Dallas when C D Lamb got hurt. And then they beat Spencer Radler in bad weather at home. And then they're four and one in the either war games. And the wins were Vegas, Cincy, Washington and New Orleans. The defensive stats are bad. Some are first in turnovers. They're just kind of one of those teams that I'm waiting for it to end. And I don't, I watch these Ben Johnson locker room speeches after the game and, and

• 1:49:11Bill Simmons?

  they're, Sal and I talk about him every Sunday night. They're hilarious. He's like, this is who we are. Nobody let us hang around the last four minutes. And it's like, your team's terrible. What are you talking about? Right? Do you have any Bears thoughts, Billy?

• 1:49:23Speaker 03

  I can't figure out if Caleb Williams is good or not. Cause he's like,

• 1:49:27Bill Simmons?

  None of us can.

• 1:49:28Speaker 03

  He's another one of these quarterbacks where it's like, okay, this was like an okay first round pick. Like now this was a disaster. This is going to go the way of Justin Fields. And then they got him all those weapons last year. Then they fire the coach. They bring in Ben Johnson. They're six and three, but like, just in three, you know, like there's, is there a team that you guys are convinced is a dominant team this year? Like a good team? Because even the ones with the good records, I have no idea if they're good or not.

• 1:49:56Bill Simmons?

  What's your answer, House? As I try to fix the shade in my office.

• 1:49:59Speaker 02

  I think, I think both the Rams and the Seahawks are good. I think both of them are good. And I think they're both good on both sides of the ball. We'll do the handicapping of, of that football game here soon enough. But I want to interject, we, we don't.

• 1:50:16Bill Simmons?

  Can I just say, I agree with those two?

• 1:50:18Speaker 02

  Okay, good. Anybody else?

• 1:50:19Bill Simmons?

  And I think.

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  I mean, the Chiefs, I'll say the Chiefs. I'll go ahead and go way out on a limb.

• 1:50:24Bill Simmons?

  I think the Chiefs.

• 1:50:24Speaker 02

  I think the Chiefs are good.

• 1:50:25Bill Simmons?

  This week.

• 1:50:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:26Bill Simmons?

  And I think the Patriots actually might be good. But I just think they need a couple more wins under the old belt.

• 1:50:34Speaker 02

  Seems like a good.

• 1:50:34Bill Simmons?

  So this would be my far bet. But we agree, Rams, Seahawks, I think the Eagles have to get credit just for putting up wins. And there's, you know, at some point, if you're winning every week, you can't nitpick too much.

• 1:50:45Speaker 02

  And they're not playing a bullshit schedule.

• 1:50:46Bill Simmons?

  No, they've had hard games. Their pit bull's eye on their neck.

• 1:50:49Speaker 02

  They're beating the best teams.

• 1:50:51Bill Simmons?

  Anyway, what were you going to say?

• 1:50:52Speaker 02

  I just wanted to interject on the Caleb Williams question. We have no idea whether he's good or not, because this is the first nine games, eight or nine games with a genuinely competent person calling, calling plays. It's like we're, we're, this is the first time in however many years that he's actually trying to play like an organized offense. And it's why I think we keep seeing these game scripts where the first couple of offensive possessions by the Bears, hey, look at that team. They look pretty effing good. They're moving the ball down the field.

• 1:51:23Bill Simmons?

  And at the three hour mark.

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  Right, right. And he's, he bails so quickly. He goes through no progressions. But it's a work in progress. I do think over the balance of a full season, we'll see Ben Johnson and they'll get on the same page. Right now, you know, it's inconclusive leaning, not good, but I don't think we can make a call yet.

• 1:51:43Bill Simmons?

  You know, you know what's interesting about him? There should be an award when they do NFL honors.

• 1:51:49Bill Simmons?

  If you did like, you know, you have like these mixtapes of basketball players in high school and they look, they all look incredible. It's like they're just hitting threes and alley oop dunks. You know, that's not what the experience to actually watch them. The Caleb mixtape this year would be pretty incredible. Like some of the scrambles he's had, especially in big moments, like the pass to Loveland. Yeah. Like, like he's had, but then if you watch him for three hours, there's also like all of these other terrible plays he makes. And he's like the classic scrambles to the right and runs out of room and has to throw it out of bounds. He does all that stuff. And then every once in a while have an awesome throw. But I ironically feel the same about two, not lately, because two is kind of fallen

• 1:52:31Bill Simmons?

  into an abyss, but two was like that for a while where it seemed like the wheels were coming off. And then all of a sudden he would hit four dudes in a row and it'd be like, wait, is, is he good? What's, you just kind of never could get a handle on it, right?

• 1:52:43Speaker 03

  Well, even when he goes, what, like 24 of 27, he has like, those three are so bad. And you just look past all of the positive stats and be like, oh my God, like, what are we doing with this guy? And it's like, well, those numbers aren't actually that bad. And his QBR wasn't bad that game. Like, he's not that bad.

• 1:52:59Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:52:59Speaker 03

  Who do you guys think, I guess, is the best player or the player that you could make the best highlight reel of in the league that's actually not very good? So you could show someone like, look, this is the NFL. And they see that person like, wow, this guy's incredible. Like, they're really not. They just have such like big bam plays and the rest of the time they're just shit players.

• 1:53:20Bill Simmons?

  It's probably a running back, right? It's probably like some running back who every once in a while can make people miss. For the Patriots, it's Austin Hooper, the number two tight end. You could cut like he had eight awesome catches this year. And if you cut them together, it's like, is this guy Gronk? What's, look at these catches in traffic. Who do you think at his house?

• 1:53:40Speaker 02

  Joe Flacco, who I love. I say that with, with all of the love in my heart. I say, I mean, it's just an amazing moment in his career. It's just you, like, seriously, every one of his throws in Cincinnati have been the best throws, the most amazing throws, the scramble that he had on that Monday night football. Anyway, I'll stop.

• 1:54:00Bill Simmons?

  Brian Thomas Jr. is like that too, because he's had a bad year by all accounts. And I have him on multiple fantasy teams. And he's had drops over the middle and all kinds of stuff. But he's also had like seven awesome plays. Last year he had a lot more.

• 1:54:14Bill Simmons?

  Vikings minus three. I think we're locking that one in house.

• 1:54:17Speaker 02

  Lock, lock, lock. Yeah.

• 1:54:18Bill Simmons?

  The only fear is J J McCarthy. I listen. He's up and down. Great throw one play, horrible throw the next play. He'll have an awesome scramble where you're like, wow, this guy. There's something here and then, you know, he'll be running for his life next play.

• 1:54:34Speaker 02

  You said it. All of the Bears wins are because of turnover differential and we're betting on a guy who's a turnover waiting to happen. That's what we do. So, yes.

• 1:54:43Bill Simmons?

  One other thing I like, kitchen sink game for the Vikes because they have at Green Bay at Seattle next two weeks. They're four and five. Like this is, this is it. This is, you lose this game. The Bears go to seven and three. You're not going to make the playoffs if you lose this game. Bears could lose the game and be okay.

• 1:55:01Bill Simmons?

  Billy might have to talk us out of this next one.

• 1:55:05Bill Simmons?

  We both like the Browns at home.

• 1:55:08Bill Simmons?

  They're getting seven and a half at home against Baltimore. They played three home games in Cleveland this year.

• 1:55:16Bill Simmons?

  And I think we, we bet on the last one, the Dolphins one. That was like our pick of the year. They won 31 to six. They beat the Packers 13 to 10 and then in week one, they should have beaten the Bengals and lost by one. Then they had an overseas game. And I didn't really like how Baltimore looked last week, but bad weather, Cleveland at home.

• 1:55:37Bill Simmons?

  Just ugly, just, it has all the makings, Billy, but you're making a face.

• 1:55:41Speaker 03

  I, it's just the Browns are such a hard team to want to take. I mean, you don't think they're going to win. You just think they're going to cover this game, right?

• 1:55:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it feels like a, what, like a 13 of nine?

• 1:55:53Speaker 02

  It feels like the AFC North game between these two teams that we've been watching for the last like, I don't know, 15, 20 years. I mean, there are some incredible splits for the Browns.

• 1:56:05Speaker 02

  Defense especially home versus on the road. I think over the last three years, I can't remember, this is a, maybe like Stucky from the Action Network. The Browns against the spread are over 60% at home. And they're like five and 20 on the road. Like this, just, their, their yards per, uh, you know, offensive possession are the best in the NFL defensively. They're, they're allowing an average of 11 points a game at home, but, but only three games.

• 1:56:37Bill Simmons?

  We've been talking about this for a couple of years.

• 1:56:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:40Bill Simmons?

  That there's just like two versions of the Browns and if you can get them at home in bad weather, it's, it's almost like just don't think of them as the Browns, think of them as their another identity entirely. Um, I didn't like how Lamar looked last week.

• 1:56:53Speaker 02

  He's only watched it pretty closely. In two games since he came back.

• 1:56:57Bill Simmons?

  He doesn't have the same explosiveness and obviously he's not a hundred percent. He had a hamstring injury that, was it a calf or hamstring? It was one of those leg injuries.

• 1:57:07Bill Simmons?

  But I just didn't think he looked great. The counter here is we're taking Dylan Gabriel and there's just some awful, awful Dylan Gabriel stats. Really bad. But I'm not sure if it's a bad weather home game. Like is he even involved in this game?

• 1:57:20Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 1:57:21Bill Simmons?

  He's gonna run the ball.

• 1:57:22Speaker 02

  Quinshon, Quinshon, Quinshon.

• 1:57:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:25Speaker 03

  I don't like that situation for Lamar. I have him in the guillotine league. I got him for $2 last week and I was like, this is gonna be, this is how I win the league because half the teams ran out of money. And then there was only one other person with money, like literally $0 is how I got him for two. Cause I realized there's only one other person that can bet or can bid on him and he has Josh Allen, so he's not gonna do it so then I can save money. And now we're just in like survive week to week mode. And there's one, one other person with money in this league. And if I knock him out this week, we're good. So I was gonna play Lamar, but now I'm thinking against playing Lamar this week.

• 1:58:02Bill Simmons?

  I would not play Lamar this week. What's your other option?

• 1:58:04Speaker 02

  I concur.

• 1:58:06Speaker 03

  All right, hold on.

• 1:58:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's a stay away. I'm in the same situation, the guillotine league, House and I are in that House got knocked out of. There's seven teams left and only three have money. Everyone else has zeros. And now it just becomes Hunger Games for these like superstars the last couple of weeks with the three people have the money.

• 1:58:22Speaker 03

  Well, so I'm down to three teams because we only had, I think 12 teams in it this, this season. So it's three of us that are left. Only one other person has money. They have like $80. I have like 500, which is kind of useless. And then the other guy that's in first has $0. So if I just survive this week, I can just outspend everyone else in this league.

• 1:58:42Bill Simmons?

  You put together an all-star team. That sounds amazing.

• 1:58:44Speaker 03

  And it's also like.

• 1:58:47Speaker 03

  Matthew Berry is in this league for some reason. So like there's the added, I just want to beat the guy who has come up with this and has made a career out of fantasy. Like even if I lose the rest of this, because like, I don't know how many leagues you guys are in with just like normal people that they think, oh, because you're in sports, you know so much about this and they get like this pride and beating and it's like, I don't know shit. Like I know the same as you guys do about everything else. Like fantasy wise, I'm just hoping my guys don't get injured and like, it's, it's a crap shoot. But the pride that I would take out of knocking out someone who's made their entire lifestyle out of fantasy would just.

• 1:59:23Bill Simmons?

  He should start doing taunting videos. I mean, I don't want to pour water on this, but I think he's in like 27 leagues.

• 1:59:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, I know. I'm not the only one.

• 1:59:32Bill Simmons?

  Like minions doing his teams.

• 1:59:34Speaker 03

  Honestly, the reason that I'm like trying to sneak by is because I'm like, this is so low on his list of priorities in terms of like fantasy.

• 1:59:41Bill Simmons?

  He might not even know he's in the league.

• 1:59:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, I probably, well, he, he, he went a little crazy with the money this week. He was throwing out like $200 of people. Yeah.

• 1:59:49Speaker 02

  Play somebody other than Lamar. Who's your other choices?

• 1:59:51Speaker 03

  I have Herbert. So I think I'm going to go with Herbert this week. Actually, you know what?

• 1:59:54Bill Simmons?

  Herbert.

• 1:59:55Speaker 03

  Well, especially after the Madison Beer stat. I don't know why I was even giving it second thought.

• 2:00:00Bill Simmons?

  I had to stop. I, I don't play fantasy basketball anymore because anytime I was in a fantasy basketball league in an auction, anytime I started bidding on somebody, people would just go $1 higher than me just because they figured, well, he loves basketball. If he likes this person, I just, I'll just go $1 higher. And it just wasn't fun. House is one of those people.

• 2:00:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:21Speaker 02

  Left hand up. Guilty.

• 2:00:22Bill Simmons?

  F you, House. Um, speaking of the Jags Chargers, I had this one marked down. Jags plus three. So Herbert could still have a good game. It could still hate your trend. Um, it's going to be 78 degrees in Jacksonville. And I'm guessing a little bit humid too, right? See the Chargers who these LA kids, they get to play in a, in a dome. They don't really get to see this, but I thought the weather actually mattered last week in that, that Buffalo game and we see it in Miami, what, twice, three times a year? These teams go to Miami and the weather's weird and I feel like it happens in Jacksonville and it'll happen in Tampa, but um, there's some really interesting, uh, I mean, the Chargers offensive line is just terrible.

• 2:01:08Bill Simmons?

  And they, they lost their two anchors. It didn't really manifest itself last week because Rogers was so bad and it almost didn't have to. But I could, I just feel like the Jags, they're like a zigzag team. And this is the week to, to follow the zag. Jags plus three feels like a three point game. House, if Jacksonville won last week, which they should have won, and thank God they didn't because we had the Texans, if they won, is this spread even?

• 2:01:34Speaker 02

  It's, what do you mean even like, uh,

• 2:01:37Bill Simmons?

  Is it Jags pick them against the Chargers or is it in the tic tac zone?

• 2:01:41Speaker 02

  No, yeah, you tic tac zone probably. I don't think it would have been gone all the way down because the way that the Chargers won, that's, that's really what I think this price is, is about. They dominated the Steelers on national TV, so they're, they're getting a, giving out a price.

• 2:01:55Bill Simmons?

  Did they dominate them or was Rogers just horrible?

• 2:01:57Speaker 02

  But think about us, we're, we're, Rogers was horrendous and I thought the Steelers defense was tremendous, but we're talking about a market, the Vegas setting a number. That's a different thing. That's people's eyeballs. What was the score of that game? Oh, well, look, the, the Chargers beat the Rams. Yeah, right, right, right. Oh, okay.

• 2:02:16Speaker 03

  I'm thinking back to the playoff game where Justin Herbert looked like he was going to beat the Jaguars and they had that lead. And I'm wondering if the ghost of two years ago are going to come back and get in the head.

• 2:02:26Bill Simmons?

  That helps our cause.

• 2:02:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, get in the head of Justin Herbert and think, you know what? I can do it here. And then if things start slipping towards the end of the game, like, oh no, it's happening to me again and Jaguars come back and take them down.

• 2:02:39Bill Simmons?

  I like that. Yeah, I do believe in that. The residue of these old skeleton games from the past in either way, right?

• 2:02:46Speaker 03

  But how far back in the past? Cause two years ago, it's kind of borderline back in the past for ghosts, right?

• 2:02:51Speaker 02

  A lot of different faces, different head coach, maybe that, that could make a difference for the Chargers.

• 2:02:57Bill Simmons?

  Also, the Jaguars play weird games. Like, you can get Jaguars plus three, they could lose 31 to 30, or I just think this game has weird game written all over it, and especially the humidity and stuff. I don't think the Jaguars are that bad. You look at their schedule, you look at some of the, they played some really good teams. I don't trust them at all. I wouldn't, I wouldn't ever want to lay points with them, I don't think, in any situation, but in this situation, I don't mind it. So, we're staying away. Oh, no, we're not staying away. You, you want to put the Eagles minus one and a half against Detroit. You want that to be your pick potentially, House? Yeah.

• 2:03:35Speaker 02

  Potentially, yeah. I mean, but I, you know, we're definitely doing the Jags plus three. We're definitely doing the Browns plus seven and a half. We're definitely doing Minnesota minus two and a half.

• 2:03:47Bill Simmons?

  There's one more I really like.

• 2:03:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I, I think I agree with you. So, I mean, I do like the Eagles this week, but go ahead. I think we're in agreement on the other one that you like.

• 2:03:57Bill Simmons?

  I really like the Seahawks plus three against the Rams.

• 2:04:01Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:04:01Bill Simmons?

  I'm all in on the Seahawks team. Aaron Schatz, I don't know, is he the creator of DVOA? The king of DVOA? What's his moniker?

• 2:04:10Speaker 02

  Whatever you give him. You're the Podfather. You name it. You dub it.

• 2:04:15Bill Simmons?

  Igniter? I don't know what it is. He said...

• 2:04:17Speaker 03

  He has an army, though, now, that does his bidding for him, right? Like, if you look at his book, it's like, this, this team was written by this guy, and this one was written by that guy. Like, he has the formula, but it seems like he might be getting a little too big for his britches on this.

• 2:04:32Speaker 02

  Billy Gil. Jets.

• 2:04:34Bill Simmons?

  Well, he was calling this the DVA Bowl.

• 2:04:38Speaker 02

  Oh, I like this.

• 2:04:38Bill Simmons?

  It's one against two.

• 2:04:39Speaker 02

  Very good.

• 2:04:40Bill Simmons?

  Seattle's one, the Rams are two.

• 2:04:42Speaker 02

  Well, he's allowed to do that, since he invented it.

• 2:04:45Bill Simmons?

  The case for each side. Both teams are really good.

• 2:04:49Bill Simmons?

  You can throw on the Rams. I just think you can. I've watched Mac Jones do it twice. I watched it last week. I felt like if they don't have that Juwan Johnson fumble.

• 2:05:00Speaker 03

  Or Jennings.

• 2:05:01Bill Simmons?

  Then there was that McCaffrey gets stoned on the fourth down, but they were like right there just going back and forth with the Rams. And that Niners offense, I wouldn't call it juggernaut. And I just think they can move the ball on them. I think either this is a close game or the Seahawks win. So I like that. I don't think the home field is going to matter that much because it's whatever. It's LA. The flip side, Billy. Darnold in a huge game, which we have not seen since the last two times we saw it, which was the last two games of last season when he shit the bed.

• 2:05:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:36Bill Simmons?

  And it's hard to just be like, he's fine.

• 2:05:41Speaker 03

  He seems due to not shit the bed though, right? Like in law, you can't always shit the bed. At some point you run out of shit.

• 2:05:50Speaker 02

  He's not not fine. I think he's fine.

• 2:05:53Bill Simmons?

  He's having a great year.

• 2:05:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. This, this is to your point, an observation around San Francisco. I had that note as well. It sets up in two ways to my mind for, for Darnold to have success. In the first place, Seattle doesn't try to run the ball. The Rams have a good run defense, but their secondary is super gettable. And you can go through beyond the San Francisco games and get there. The reason that I especially like this Darnold matchup, he, his, his deep ball is exquisite. And it was exquisite last year as well, and he gets rid of it fast. They're not, they're not having him stand back there.

• 2:06:32Speaker 02

  We just watched two consecutive games. Now it was Washington and Arizona, but they went, they had 28 points before anybody sat down with their popcorn.

• 2:06:41Bill Simmons?

  And people like Arizona's defense and they just shredded it.

• 2:06:44Speaker 02

  Well, their secondary was banged up and they were on a short week, so we can try and excuse some of that for Arizona, but.

• 2:06:52Bill Simmons?

  Full week of Shaheed. By the way, Shaheed might be your answer, Billy. For uh

• 2:06:56Speaker 03

  Highlights?

• 2:06:57Bill Simmons?

  For the highlight guy.

• 2:06:58Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:06:59Bill Simmons?

  You just take like eight Shaheed plays and it would you be like, is this what Gail Sears was like in the sixties crossed with Jerry Rice?

• 2:07:06Speaker 03

  I think if I got like a Justin Fields highlight reel and I put it in a time capsule and had someone open it in like 40 years, they'd look at him like, wow, this was like, this guy was really good at the time and just don't show them anything else other than his scrambles.

• 2:07:22Bill Simmons?

  But it would be.

• 2:07:23Speaker 03

  Also 40 years from now, like I think back.

• 2:07:25Bill Simmons?

  Don't show any passes.

• 2:07:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, football, football, if I see like highlights from football 40 years ago, I'm like, wow, that is a terrible game. So I can't even imagine what football will look like 40 years from now, where you're like, yeah, these people are completely unathletic. They're very slow. They can't make throws. Like what were these people watching back in the day?

• 2:07:41Bill Simmons?

  I've actually done this. I've watched like quarters from YouTube has entire games. And you're watching quarters from like 1979 and it's just kind of amazing to watch. First of all, the guys are much smaller than they are now.

• 2:07:57Bill Simmons?

  That that's like the one of the first things that jumps out. And then the second thing that jumps out is everybody's just getting clobbered and highlighted. The quarterback's going back to pass and just guys are diving at his legs and people are hitting from behind and the quarterbacks like just trying to get rid of the ball before he gets killed, basically, is all of these games. And they're like bizarre to watch.

• 2:08:17Speaker 03

  Do you feel worse for the bad players today that would have dominated an old era? Or the really good players of an old era that were paid like $10,000 a year?

• 2:08:29Bill Simmons?

  For those guys. Yeah. Yeah, like especially the the guy, the seventies and early eighties NBA guys. They just have to be going nuts. Like the Bradley Beal contract, like can you imagine being? I don't know, pick anyone from 1977, like Dr. J, who they carried the ABA. There's no way he ever made more than like, maybe like 2 million a year. You know, and he's watching like the Kevin, Kevin Durant's made almost 700 million dollars.

• 2:08:59Bill Simmons?

  600 million dollars, something like that.

• 2:09:01Speaker 03

  Whatever it is, deserves it. Look at how much the league has made. It's fine.

• 2:09:06Bill Simmons?

  House is always pro labor and for players. He's pro labor in the baseball dispute. He's already, he's laid a smack, he's laid his swag down.

• 2:09:16Speaker 02

  Incorrect.

• 2:09:17Bill Simmons?

  Player side.

• 2:09:17Speaker 02

  What are we doing?

• 2:09:18Speaker 03

  Are you hoping for a holdout? Wait, did you like that? Did you like that one of Manfred's goons put out a hit on Bryce Harper?

• 2:09:26Bill Simmons?

  I did. It's all starting. It really is like this next couple of months. It'd be a good podcast. Like, cause we've been trying to figure out of how we could have a baseball podcast. And it maybe the podcast should just be like monitoring all the shenanigans that are about to happen. Hit pieces all over the place. It's gonna be great. Seahawks were taken. Jags were taking. That leaves one spot. But we both like the Chiefs. We just don't like the hook. The Chiefs are, are three and a half in Denver. And I, I've just had it with Bo Nix. I just can't. He's not beating the Chiefs the way he's playing. There were multiple plays in that Thursday game. When you could tell Herb Street wanted to go really in on like, what the fuck is this guy doing?

• 2:10:11Bill Simmons?

  Like, but he was like holding back.

• 2:10:14Bill Simmons?

  I just think he's a complete mess. I have a couple Broncos fans in my life and all of them are kind of like, if we can just get a good hour of him. Like they're already in that mindset. And the Chiefs need the game. That's the other thing. It's like the Chiefs are nine and O. Right? They're five and four. They're not even in one of the seven playoff teams. So I'm afraid of the hook.

• 2:10:34Speaker 02

  I wouldn't be under pressure. I'm not afraid of the hook. This is the Chiefs coming off of the bye week, going up against this, this completely incompetent offense. They will have Spags knows how to, to scheme up against Bo Nix. I'm not worried about, about Spags having the, the, the time. The, the single biggest thing that Denver enjoys is an unprecedented fourth quarter point differential. They're, they're beating all of these garbage teams.

• 2:11:02Bill Simmons?

  In the Eagles game.

• 2:11:04Speaker 02

  In the fourth quarter. Right. The Eagles is the, is the lone exception. They did, you know, a good, a good job there. But I mean, you were, I'm not rewarding them for the outcome against the Texans. And they knocked the quarterback out. The guy still hasn't come back yet. Um, no, I, I'm, I'm, I'm very suspicious of, of this Denver team. And I think the Chiefs are ready to come in and handle their business.

• 2:11:27Speaker 03

  How do you guys feel about Sean Payton? Cause like Sean Payton was the genius, obviously with Drew Brees, right? And then he was supposed to be the quarterback fixer. And then it didn't happen with Russell Wilson. And then Bo Nix was his guy. And he was okay last year, but like, he's not, I don't, do you guys think Bo Nix is going to be a superstar quarterback? Like probably not, but they have a great record. So is he a good coach or is he not a good coach?

• 2:11:51Bill Simmons?

  I was just talking to, uh, one of my Bronco fan friends, Dave, who's kind of like, I don't really fully understand this Payton is a genius thing. I think the Bronco fans are starting to, he's had some weird calls, especially, uh, when was the Superbowl, the Colts, like he's been dining off that onside kick call, which was in 2009, like Entourage was on in 2009, like it was a million years ago. I was, I was year two of this podcast. But I think that some of the game management stuff with him is pretty strange. And I don't understand what, like some of the stuff they asked Bo Nix to do. It just seems like he can only do a couple of things, like he can roll out to the right and do a quick pass. They keep asking him to throw these deep passes and he just can't complete any of them.

• 2:12:37Bill Simmons?

  You know, I actually like their players. I like Franklin. I like Sutton. I like the running backs. They can block.

• 2:12:44Speaker 02

  Good tight ends.

• 2:12:45Bill Simmons?

  So I, I'm with you. I don't, so you're, you're down on Payton. It sounds like Billy.

• 2:12:50Speaker 03

  I just, yeah, I don't think he's like the genius savior that he was painted out to be, but at eight and two, it's hard to explain to people why he's not doing a good job.

• 2:13:00Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:13:01Speaker 02

  I, I mean, considering where they were, this franchise was with Russell Wilson as their quarterback. And then he, he, he quickly showed Russell Wilson the door. The Broncos made the playoffs. And now here they are once again, you know, at the top of the, of the AFC West, it's tough to challenge like the big picture stuff, uh, even though.

• 2:13:19Bill Simmons?

  We're talking about like the minutia piece. The roster building he's still really good at. I thought he did a great job with the, the draft picks, free agent signings. The team has an identity. He's really good at kind of, kind of puffing his chest up on behalf of the team. Talking about we're a Superbowl contender. He's, there's a lot of, like, almost like he wants to give them the confidence. But then you watch some of the game management stuff and that's why I think they could be in trouble with the Chiefs. But so House, you want to just, you just want to like lay the hook here?

• 2:13:50Speaker 02

  I have no problem with it, but I understand your reservation and it really does, you know, fly in the face of what we've watched all season long with these Broncos, which is pulling something out of their butt right at the end that, that, you know?

• 2:14:02Bill Simmons?

  They are the cold and blow team of 2025. Cause we could do Chiefs money line with the Green Bay money line, but then we have, we're banking on that weird Packers team. We could do Chiefs money line with Houston plus two and a half in Tennessee.

• 2:14:16Speaker 02

  I don't want anything to do with that game.

• 2:14:18Bill Simmons?

  You want to say you don't like Davis Mills, even though he saved our ass last week?

• 2:14:22Speaker 02

  That, that was it. There, that's, that's the end of the, you can't ask for, for, for anything more from Davis Mills. He saved our ass last week. That's it. Don't ask for anything more.

• 2:14:30Bill Simmons?

  So you're saying, Kat, we're at the blackjack table with Davis Mills and we have to get up and get and put in the chips?

• 2:14:35Speaker 02

  Yes. The cooler has, has come to the table. It's time to get up.

• 2:14:39Bill Simmons?

  Billy, you didn't have any Davis Mills trends, did you?

• 2:14:41Speaker 03

  No, I didn't. I didn't really look up Davis Mills. Yeah.

• 2:14:43Bill Simmons?

  I forgot to have you prep on that.

• 2:14:44Speaker 03

  I'll look into that.

• 2:14:45Bill Simmons?

  Chiefs money line, Arizona plus nine and a half? That was another one. The Arizona against the Niners.

• 2:14:52Speaker 02

  Fine with that. Fine with that one. Go ahead.

• 2:14:55Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you like that one?

• 2:14:55Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. Fine. I don't think that the Niners are going to win by margin. The card, this is a division game.

• 2:15:00Bill Simmons?

  Here's the one. So we could move the Chiefs line one point, get away from the hook, Chiefs minus two and a half and put it with Arizona getting 13 and a half against the Niners. And the Niners just like, they're starting defense. It's like, hey, that's Keanu Wade. He used to be on the Patriots. Like that's one of those defenses. Every guy they have is somebody that's probably been on your team in the last two years. So you like that one? We would rather do that or just lay the hook, House?

• 2:15:28Speaker 02

  I'm fine with both. Um, and obviously.

• 2:15:31Bill Simmons?

  That's not an answer.

• 2:15:31Speaker 02

  Well, um.

• 2:15:33Speaker 03

  As a therapist, you're going to have to pick a side here.

• 2:15:38Bill Simmons?

  Well, maybe we ask Billy, would you rather lay the hook with the Chiefs? Just say, fuck it. Chiefs would have to win by four points in Denver.

• 2:15:44Speaker 03

  I feel like I'm not supposed to give my thoughts here because this is you guys working.

• 2:15:48Bill Simmons?

  No, we want your thoughts. We want your thoughts. Because we can also just stay away from this game. We have six choices.

• 2:15:57Speaker 03

  How strong are we feeling about it?

• 2:15:59Speaker 02

  Do the Chiefs plus, I mean, minus two and a half and Arizona plus 13 and a half. 49ers cannot, the only way 49ers win by margin is, is if the Cardinals give them the ball. If there's like special team catastrophes, Brissette, you know, fumbles.

• 2:16:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but that might happen.

• 2:16:19Bill Simmons?

  Why is Tennessee going to beat Houston?

• 2:16:21Speaker 02

  I just don't want anything to do with, with, with the Texans. We, we, we got the thing with the Texans. That's it. We, we need to be happy with it. Let them get strung back.

• 2:16:31Bill Simmons?

  New coach, new coach Giants, anything?

• 2:16:34Speaker 03

  I, I, I like the Giants because of Jameis. I think Jameis has a Jameis, a Jameis game. Yeah.

• 2:16:40Speaker 02

  I don't want to lay the points with, with Green Bay, but Green Bay isn't going to lose three straight games.

• 2:16:46Bill Simmons?

  We already talked about this. We gotta stay away from Jameis. I don't trust Jameis.

• 2:16:50Speaker 02

  All right.

• 2:16:51Bill Simmons?

  Stay away. It's like when the wrong dealer comes in to the table and you're like, I don't trust that guy.

• 2:16:57Speaker 02

  All right.

• 2:16:58Bill Simmons?

  So we need the Chiefs minus three and a half or Chiefs minus two and a half with Arizona plus 13 and a half. That fits under our minus 120. But that's, those are two choices. Pick.

• 2:17:08Speaker 02

  Those are the choices.

• 2:17:09Bill Simmons?

  You pick.

• 2:17:10Speaker 02

  I want, I'll do the combo. I prefer the combo. Arizona plus 13 and a half, Chiefs minus two and a half. It's the sissy way out. I admit it.

• 2:17:19Bill Simmons?

  So Vikings, Browns, Seahawks, Jags, and then Chiefs, Cardinals. We're stay, I think we stay away from Eagles, Lions.

• 2:17:27Speaker 02

  You can. I'm fine. I've already bet the Eagles. I'm gonna keep betting them.

• 2:17:31Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 2:17:33Speaker 02

  I also bet the Chiefs. I bet the Chiefs at minus three and a half. I'm fine with it, but we're trying to win here.

• 2:17:39Bill Simmons?

  Okay. All right. The Ringer 107 is presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. First one we are doing. I had the wrong line before. I thought it was Vikings minus three in Minnesota against the Bears. And then House reminded me before we started this part that it's actually minus two and a half. So it's even better. You get an extra half point. Vikings minus two and a half at home against the Bears. Do I trust J.J. McCarthy? Not totally. Do I trust Caleb Williams to burn us? Not really. Uh, kitchen sink game for the Vikings. They have to have it. They're playing Green Bay and Seattle on the road next week. Anyway, Vikings minus two and a half to right the ship. And keep their season alive. That's our first pick. Browns plus seven and a half at home against Baltimore.

• 2:18:24Bill Simmons?

  A pick that made Billy briefly recoil. And then by the time we went through it, he had decided to not have Lamar Jackson in his guillotine lineup this week.

• 2:18:32Speaker 03

  I'm easily swayed.

• 2:18:33Bill Simmons?

  Bad weather at Cleveland. House, you you made the point Cleveland at home is just like you almost they shouldn't be called the Browns. Call them something else. Call them the Cleveland ass kickers. Browns plus seven and a half. And we're gonna try to not pretend that Dylan Gabriel's the quarterback. Seahawks plus three against the Rams. I think the Seahawks are slightly better. This to me is a playoff game with playoff rules. I'm not sure because now with the home field advantage, you get plus, you get one and a half, right? If you're home. So that Rams are getting three. They're saying the Rams are better than the Seahawks. I just disagree. I think you can throw in the Rams.

• 2:19:07Speaker 02

  We didn't even talk about how good the Seahawks have been on the road for the entirety of Mike McDonald's tenure as a head coach. They are excellent on the road.

• 2:19:14Bill Simmons?

  By the way, they have two losses and should have won both of the games. So there you go. Jags plus three and Chargers. Against the Chargers and 78 degree weather in Jacksonville.

• 2:19:25Bill Simmons?

  Some trends Billy brought up about Herbert power couples that I don't think, I think he can put up stats and we can still get our result. I love the plus three because I think the final score of this game will probably be one or two points. And either way, that's good for our bet, but I think the Jags can win this. I don't think the Chargers can block. At some point, it's gonna come back and bite them. And then last but not least, we're going to take the Chiefs. They're favored by three and a half. We're going to move it to two and a half. We're going to move it one point. And to do that, we need the juice from Arizona, plus 13 and a half. At their home, right? Against San Francisco? They're home. Yes, they're home. Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, let's do it. Gannon time.

• 2:20:07Bill Simmons?

  And that is under our minus 120 threshold. So those are our five picks. Billy, any last thoughts?

• 2:20:13Speaker 03

  I think, I think Seahawks pick's a good one, but not, not because of what you're saying. The Rams, remember alternate jerseys, Rams alternate jerseys, a guaranteed loss this week.

• 2:20:23Bill Simmons?

  Very fair. That was the Ringer 107 presented by Fanduel Sportsbook. Billy, what'd you think?

• 2:20:28Speaker 03

  I think we made a lot of progress this week. I think that you guys are in a better place than you were when we started.

• 2:20:35Bill Simmons?

  That was, I feel the same way. Excellent. Pick's lubricant. I feel, I feel closer to house. You can, you can hear Billy. Billy's going to pop on different Ringer podcasts, probably like this for a little while. You're in the college, college football tailgate show.

• 2:20:50Speaker 03

  Ringer tailgate. Yeah, check it out.

• 2:20:52Bill Simmons?

  Can you rank the hosts before we go?

• 2:20:54Speaker 03

  Ooh, wow. Okay.

• 2:20:55Bill Simmons?

  Your favorites?

• 2:20:56Speaker 03

  Fa, oh, now I have to play favorites. Three to one?

• 2:21:01Bill Simmons?

  Sure. Oh, you want to do that? Yeah, let's do it that way. Three to one.

• 2:21:03Speaker 03

  Are we doing, we're doing just Ringer tailgates three to one here?

• 2:21:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:08Speaker 03

  All right.

• 2:21:08Bill Simmons?

  Just for your, not for the entirety of the podcast, but for your experience on the podcast yesterday.

• 2:21:13Speaker 03

  My experience on the podcast, Joel is an easy three, bottom of the barrel, I would say. Yeah. Joel's at the bottom.

• 2:21:20Bill Simmons?

  That's strange.

• 2:21:21Speaker 03

  And this is like a big one. Tate and Van.

• 2:21:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Dan really sold you a couple of big belly laughs.

• 2:21:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. You know what? I'm, I told you, I'm easily swayed. So I'll put Tate at two and Van at one. Those are my power rankings for this week.

• 2:21:35Bill Simmons?

  That's good. If you need a Van LSU jersey up there to replace the two jersey. There we go. All right. House has to go. Billy, pleasure. Great to see you guys. Thanks. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to House and Billy. Thanks to Legs. Thanks to Gahan Eduardo as well. And we are going to be back on Sunday night with guest alliance and a lot of good football games. Can't wait to talk about them. Enjoy the weekend.

• 2:22:15Bill Simmons?

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• 2:22:57Bill Simmons?

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