Tommy Davidson on Finding His Identity, Race & Comedy

Tommy Davidson’s story starts long before In Living Color. He opens up to Keke about being abandoned as a baby, growing up Black in a white adoptive family and how it shaped his identity and comedy. He reveals how a tragedy at one of his stand-up shows taught him the power of laughter and explains why he apologized to Dionne Warwick. Plus, Tommy sings, breaks out his legendary impressions and shares why his dream of playing Sammy Davis Jr. in a movie may finally come true. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Keke Palmer?

  Today's guest is a true force in comedy and culture, Tommy Davidson. From In Living Color to The Proud Family, he's built a career that's made us laugh for decades. But at the center of it all is identity. Because how do you find your voice and hold on to it? How do you grow and still stay true to who you are as an artist, a black man in Hollywood, and as a father? Today, we're getting into the origins, the journey, the lessons, and the man behind the laughter. I'm so excited for this one.

• 1:02Keke Palmer?

  Today's episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Starbucks. Fall's most iconic beverage is here. The Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte is back to kick off the season. Order now on the app.

• 1:17Keke Palmer?

  Tommy Davidson, come on out.

• 1:23Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to have this opportunity to do this.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  How you feel?

• 1:27Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  This is different.

• 1:29Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, this is too cool, man.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Okay, so let me get this straight. We're shooting The Matrix?

• 1:35Keke Palmer?

  Exactly, exactly.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  You gonna do it right, ain't you, man?

• 1:39Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, how are you?

• 1:41Speaker 01

  I'm fine.

• 1:42Keke Palmer?

  You look great.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  I'm fine. I feel pretty good.

• 1:44Keke Palmer?

  I know, that's right.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  I feel like I look like a bomb a little bit, but that's good. You know what I mean, with this gray hair.

• 1:48Keke Palmer?

  The fashion is fashioning, that's for sure.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Am I doing okay?

• 1:52Keke Palmer?

  You're doing great. You're doing great.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  You too?

• 1:54Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, thank you. You know, I'm just trying, I'm trying to do my thing like you do your thing.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  This is called cross compliments.

• 2:02Keke Palmer?

  Okay, let's get into this pre-show pull-up. We do this with all our guests. I had to chop it down because I would, this would be the whole dang own interview. Okay, so Zodiac sign, you're Scorpio. I feel like I'm surprised by this. Do you feel very Scorpio-y?

• 2:14Speaker 01

  I guess so. I guess, in a way. I mean, we're supposed to be strong-willed.

• 2:18Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  You know, and, you know, not too smart.

• 2:22Keke Palmer?

  Y'all are supposed to be, y'all are very smart.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Decisions sometimes.

• 2:25Keke Palmer?

  Wait a minute, this is some Scorpio tea that I'm getting.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  You know, in the, in the sort of relationship area or whatever.

• 2:30Keke Palmer?

  Ooh.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  I mean, that's, that's, you know.

• 2:32Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  That's the reputation.

• 2:34Keke Palmer?

  That's the reputation. And so what about your rising or your moon? Do you know any of that stuff?

• 2:38Speaker 01

  I don't know it per se.

• 2:40Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, you don't know it per se.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  I know it in a historical sense.

• 2:42Keke Palmer?

  What do that mean?

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, the Zodiac itself was an adaption.

• 2:47Keke Palmer?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  I mean, the, the ceiling of dungaree. And, you know, it's an African thing and came out of that, you know. So I know that stuff.

• 2:56Keke Palmer?

  That's fabulous.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  But, you know, I'm in the USA, so, you know, hey, when it's Starbucks open.

• 3:01Keke Palmer?

  Okay, what is your love language? You just said, "I love love." Now, if you say, "I love love," what does that mean? Are you complimenting? Are you very physical touch? Are you kind of like, "I'm gonna do services for you"? What's your vibe?

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Uh, it's just, "I love love." I love love and I know what it really is. You know what I mean? Not that I know what it really is over anyone else.

• 3:22Keke Palmer?

  Yes, yes.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  But the love that I've experienced, uh, the love that, that I've experienced has made me love love, you know? So, you know, and, and, and I'll tell you about that. I'm black, as you can see, you know what I mean? But you couldn't tell when I was in, in, in high school. You didn't know who my sister was, so you didn't know that my family was white. So my mother would come, like, we, we used to be late to school, right?

• 3:50Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  And when we got late to school, we had to sign up for detention. Me and my sister, usually it's snow day, we missed the bus, we had to walk, right?

• 3:57Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  So they would send my sister, who's white and blonde, to class. And they would send me to sign up for detention. So my white mom would show up and say, "Why did you send my daughter to class and my son to deti- to sign up for detention?" And they'd say, "I didn't know that was your son." Okay? So...

• 4:22Speaker 01

  And she wasn't using, using good language neither.

• 4:25Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Okay, in first grade, okay, I, I raised the Black Power fist.

• 4:31Keke Palmer?

  Yep.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  And got sent to the principal's office for putting up the Black Power, uh, sign for the, uh, uh, pledge allegiance, right? And so they called my mom and said, "Your son is in the office. He put up the Black Power sign, the Black Panther sign, in class. Um, we need you to come down here." She kind of liked to do that. Because when she walked in, I used to think she was crazy. She's like, "Where is he?", you know? So she went to the principal and said, "What the is my son doing in your office?" She knew, right?

• 5:08Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  And then they told her, and, and they told her, "He put the Black Power sign up." And she told them, I'll never forget this, she said, "Well, that's all he knows about him right now." He knows where he came from. But if you want to teach him something new, he learns fast. You know, and I, and I did. I pledged allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and I can do the whole thing.

• 5:31Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  So when I say, "I love love,"

• 5:35Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  I had to come to love it because originally, I didn't know I was black.

• 5:43Keke Palmer?

  Wow.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  I thought my sister and my mom and my dad and my grandmother and my aunts and everybody were beige.

• 5:50Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Because I learned it at the crayons. I didn't find out I was black until I was five.

• 5:55Keke Palmer?

  And even just with contextually what it meant, you know? That's why you know it becomes all this construct type of stuff.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  So what do I know?

• 6:01Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Right, so we loved, um, me and my sister, we were from farms and stuff. We grew up in Wyoming and Fort Collins, Colorado, and there was a lot, a lot of, um...

• 6:11Keke Palmer?

  Different cultures, environments.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Well, there was a lot of, uh, animal births, you know what I mean? So, so we loved litters, like kittens were coming or puppies were coming. And the mom could be a black cat and have three white ones, a gray one and an orange one. So I thought that's how we were. Until we moved from there, when they divorced, to Washington DC in 1960.

• 6:33Keke Palmer?

  Come on, Chocolate City.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  When King got shot. I don't know that because we're in the car and there's, there's tear gas going off and fires. And we're on the floor, right? So I don't know where we are, actually. I know we ain't in Fort Collins no more.

• 6:48Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Right? And, you know, my sister, when I was little, she looked like Cindy Brady. And my brother looked like David Cassidy. He was from Parche Family, she was from the Brady Bunch.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  You know, both of them were from dysfunctional stuff, I think. But that's my grown self saying that. But when we got there, the black kids beat our ass every day.

• 7:11Keke Palmer?

  The black kids beat all y'all ass?

• 7:12Speaker 01

  I call them black now.

• 7:14Keke Palmer?

  What'd you call them before?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  The brown kids.

• 7:15Keke Palmer?

  The brown kids?

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:16Keke Palmer?

  And it was actually black folk?

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:18Keke Palmer?

  And they beat all y'all ass?

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Every day.

• 7:21Keke Palmer?

  Damn.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  Every single day. And they were calling my sister and brother White Cracker. And they were calling me White Cracker Lover. I've told this story on podcasts before, but you say, "I love love. I love love for these reasons," right? It took a while to get to that, right? So through my anger and through growing through it and then the white, then being in the middle of it all. And I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything but get abandoned in the trash and they found me.

• 7:47Keke Palmer?

  Well, that's what, so, so...

• 7:48Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So, so that's where this all came from.

• 7:50Keke Palmer?

  This is exactly what I wanted to talk to you about today.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  It's a great question.

• 7:53Keke Palmer?

  About identity, right? Because it means so many different things. As a man, as a black person, just as a person, as your generation. I mean, we can break it down to so many things.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  It's a great question.

• 8:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. And you said you were found in a trash when at 18 months old, I think I had read.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Yep, yep.

• 8:07Keke Palmer?

  And so tell me, let's talk about the origin of that. So your mom, your adopted mother, Barbara, she found you in the trash. And how did she, how did she find you?

• 8:16Speaker 01

  It was a, a national address by, by, by John F. Kennedy, where he addressed white America and said, "If you could do something about the ra- if, if you can say that you did, in the future, can you say that you did something about this country's race problem?"

• 8:34Keke Palmer?

  Wow.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Right. And so my parents worked at, were at, um, Colorado State University. They said, "You know, we're gonna do something." And they looked for something to do. They found out that in Greenville, Mississippi, they were having a problem with immunizing children. There was some voting drives they wanted to go. And they went there. It was the poorest, one of the poorest, uh, uh, towns in country. So they figured, and they knew it was all black. So they went there to do that. And they wanted to do voting drives, you know? And they did that. My mom, who, who gave me birth, was helping them with that. She was young and, you know, they all were young, you know, and, you know. And, um, they met her. And she helped them with that and blah, blah, blah, blah. All of this is, I'm telling you, in, in, in recollection.

• 9:19Keke Palmer?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  You know? So they went back to where they were from.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  Not knowing anything about Tommy Jean, her name was Tommy Jean, so my mother named me after her.

• 9:32Keke Palmer?

  Your mother named you after your biological mother?

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, cuz she knew her, right?

• 9:35Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, sweet.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  And I met her too, uh, years later.

• 9:38Keke Palmer?

  I can't wait to get into that, but I wanna come here cuz I'm in it.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Hey, man, hey, the coffee's good here. So, so, yeah, and everybody's really, really nice.

• 9:46Keke Palmer?

  I'm so glad to hear that.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  This is like, we are the world, everything is here. Everything is here, Arabic, Jew, everything, it's like, I love love.

• 9:52Keke Palmer?

  Yes, I love love too.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  The soul train up in this bitch.

• 9:54Keke Palmer?

  Yes, period.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Okay, I could, I could do this. You know what I mean? Yeah.

• 9:59Keke Palmer?

  That was it be.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  So, they go back, going somewhere else and wanted to stop in the town, and they did. And they were looking for Tommy Jean, and people said she left. We think she left her youngest child at such and such's house. And my mother was nosy, you know? And she went there, and it was an empty house, people were doing drugs and drinking.

• 10:20Keke Palmer?

  Damn.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  She left out of there. And she said, something told her to look under a tire that was on top of this trash heap. And she saw my foot.

• 10:29Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  And she took the trash, and there I was laying there unconscious, dirty as I don't know what. I had a T-shirt on that was red, and it said, "I'll be the president in 20," and then the rest was torn. So they took me to the hospital, I was in a coma, starved, I stayed there for like sixty days and left. So the only thing I remember from that point on.

• 10:52Keke Palmer?

  Praise God.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  The, the, the thing, the first thing I remember from that point on was, I remember being in front of a Christmas tree, early, early before Christmas, playing with a red truck, a fire truck. And my dad came out and said, "That's not for you yet." You know, that's as far back as I can remember, up till I was about five, coming to DC. So, all of those things pretty much composed the guy here, you know? So that was a great question, you know? And I actually got it from Smokey Robinson, because I was at a concert of his, and he said, "I love love," and I was like, "I do too." You know, and, and that's what hit me, you know?

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Me and him ended up being friends, everything comes to the answer if you live it out, right?

• 11:40Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, my mom has always said, "Just keep living, just keep living," yeah.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  He ended up being really key for me, because a woman died at my show when I was in Philadelphia.

• 11:50Keke Palmer?

  What year is this?

• 11:51Speaker 01

  This couldn't have been probably about, maybe, probably about fifteen, sixteen years ago, maybe, in Philadelphia.

• 11:57Keke Palmer?

  Mmm, she passed.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  I invited her to the show. Uh, I was at a check cashing place on a Sunday, it was packed, it was closed, she opened the door.

• 12:04Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  They let me in, everybody was like, "Oh, man, Tommy Davidson is here, who's Tommy Davidson?" And she looked up, and she was just working on the line, and she said, "Oh, it is." You know, she said, "Sure is," so when I got up there to her, she said, "White woman," right? They're a long story. But, but, they're, they're, yeah, they're, they're probably should be the president here. Cuz, and I'll explain that. But, but, uh, uh, she says, "Um, you're in town? Wow," she said, "You made my birthday." And I said, "You know what? Why don't you come to this show?" She said, "Can I bring my kids?" And they were like twenty-one, twenty-two, I said, "Sure, bring them." Fifteen minutes into the show, she passes out, she, she collapses, has a massive heart attack, no one knows.

• 12:45Keke Palmer?

  This is so crazy.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  The ambulance comes in, they tell us, "Shh," and everybody walked out, one by one, right? And I felt a kinda way, because my mother had just passed, so I'm back there with her kids, who are hysterical. There was not a dry eye in the place, audience or workers, you know what I mean? And the managers asked me, "Do you have, wanna have a second show?" And it's up to me, I was like, "You gonna leave that up to me?"

• 13:14Keke Palmer?

  Right, right.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  And so finally I said, "Yeah, let's have a second show, because our job is here to dispense happy."

• 13:21Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  You know, this world ain't got enough of it, so.

• 13:24Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Let's go ahead and do that, right? As, as, um, as they were walking out,

• 13:32Speaker 01

  I'm a little bit more, um, emotional these days, you know? I'm thinking I'm a woman now, I think I'm coming on my, you know, I don't know what it is. Um, um, you know, I feel, I know, I know how y'all feel now, because I'm like, "What the heck is going on with me? I'm crying all the time." Um, um, you know, is that what's happening? At least I have some kind of understanding, and can do something about it, you know what I mean? And I can't, you know? So, so, so, um, uh, I'm, to be totally honest, so, so, and they're walking out, and people are shaking their hands, and all the comics are up front, right? You know, shaking these people's hand, they brought them all drinks, and, and didn't charge them anything. And this beautiful black woman walks up to me, and she says, "Um, isn't that beautiful?" I'm going, "What is she talking about? It's so beautiful."

• 14:17Speaker 01

  She said, "Of all the things in the world that the Lord could have done to brought her up to heaven, he brought her to you to laugh her way on out of here." And I wasn't done with it yet. I wasn't done, because I, I didn't, I wasn't happy with what happened.

• 14:35Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Right? It was so sudden, and it was so, you know what I mean? So, I saw Smokey Robinson on the plane.

• 14:44Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  And I'd known him for years, he brought one of my ties, you know, the company, little tie company, me and my wife put together.

• 14:51Keke Palmer?

  That's so dope.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Her wife bought all the ties, you know what I mean? And so he was there, and I've known him since I got to Hollywood, and a lot of other people, which I thought would never happen to me.

• 15:00Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  And, um, he was in first class, and I went up there, I was on Southwest. And, and, and, uh, I, I wasn't in first class, I don't know what I was on, but I wasn't in first class with him, and I don't care. Regis, Regis from, Regis and Kathie Lee taught me, "Take Southwest, that's, that's."

• 15:16Keke Palmer?

  It's even across the board.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Southwest is a [BLEEP], okay? Yeah, yeah, you hear this person tell you [BLEEP] like that, do it, right? I think he is, because he was right. So, so, so, so, so, yeah, and I've been rolling ever since, they even got first class, now it's a little hard on there, you get movies. So, so, and they give you pistachios for free, so, so.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  I go up to him, and I go, "I'm trying to get an answer for what happened."

• 15:38Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  And I ask him, "Hey, man, has this ever happened to you?"

• 15:44Keke Palmer?

  Right, because, I mean, his career, you would have, could have possibly, yeah.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  And he says, "No, man." He says, "Um, from now on, invite all your, your enemies to your show, because you killing them, baby." And I laughed, and I was okay, and I was all right.

• 16:01Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  And it paid itself off, I was at this tribute for Bobby Brown, everybody knows what he went through.

• 16:07Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  You know, and there we were, everybody from Motown was there.

• 16:11Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Smokey was there, and I got to feel like a real celeb, that I know what I'm talking about, and I'm coy, I'm like, Bob, I'm like.

• 16:18Keke Palmer?

  Bob Newhart?

• 16:18Speaker 01

  I'm like, uh, uh, uh, uh, Bob Hope at the.

• 16:21Keke Palmer?

  Bob Hope.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  At the Texas, you know, at, at the Texaco, you know, "Hi, Bob Hope here." You know, and I'm like, "Smokey Robinson told me, told me this on a plane," and everybody just laughed.

• 16:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  And I was like, "Yeah, but that really happened." So when you say, um, when I say I love love, I do, because the people that loved me through my life weren't one color.

• 16:42Keke Palmer?

  Uh, I mean, what does, another thing that I'm hearing with this too is the role of comedy.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:49Keke Palmer?

  You know, and I'm curious for you, did you, when did you realize you were funny?

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:54Keke Palmer?

  And when did you realize that comedy had a greater impact, or that making people laugh could have such a powerful impact?

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Well, what time is it right now?

• 17:04Keke Palmer?

  I'm ready to go, everything you said, come on, let's get it to you.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  It seems like, right now, it's, it's been lately, really, because I didn't really like. Well, I didn't like, really like comedy when I was a kid. I love music.

• 17:14Keke Palmer?

  That's so interesting.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  I love plays, I love, I love, you know, performing, I was taking, I was taking my Academy Award in my backyard, you know, for, you know, Poseidon Adventure, you know? My, my heroes were like Ernest Borgnine, like, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, I was, you know, I was a Hollywood wanting to be.

• 17:32Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, you really were studying the crap across the board.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, so, you know, I don't, I don't, um, I never really gravitated towards comedy, but I was a funny kid.

• 17:45Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  But I didn't like being funny, I just was already funny.

• 17:50Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Right?

• 17:51Keke Palmer?

  That's hilarious.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  But it was tough, because I'd be at the, the table at Thanksgiving or Christmas with all the whole family, and I'd say something, everybody started laughing.

• 17:59Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  And I didn't feel good about that, actually, and I finally asked my mom, you know, "Why does everybody always laugh at me?"

• 18:06Keke Palmer?

  Oh.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Right? And she said, "They're not laughing at you, boy." She said, "You have a way of, you," she said, "You have a way of making people happy so fast that all they can do is laugh first before they can even think." And I didn't apply that until like, probably about, a little bit after she passed away, I was able to apply that to, to, to the whole picture.

• 18:29Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  You know, um, uh, it, it was tough, you know, um, being in DC and growing up there, in a sense that it was isolating in a way, cuz I've been in between black and white for a long time.

• 18:43Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  I don't feel that way now.

• 18:45Keke Palmer?

  And I'm just so curious about how that.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  But it was such a local anesthesia, man.

• 18:50Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I mean, and, and at the time, and then when you think about a city like DC.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Sixty-eight.

• 18:55Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  When we moved there, and I learned what black and white was.

• 19:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Uh, uh, through the experience.

• 19:03Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  So, I went to my mother and said, you know, "Why do they call me a white cracker lover? Because I like graham crackers." That was my understanding.

• 19:12Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Graham crackers are kinda dry, I have them with water. You know, graham crackers are good, man, they sweet, and you get some apple juice, next thing you know, you're asleep on the mat in, in, in kindergarten or whatever.

• 19:22Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  So, that was at the point where she told me, like, "Okay, she, here you go."

• 19:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  People, your color call people our color that when they don't like them, and I was like, "Well, what color are you?"

• 19:37Keke Palmer?

  That's really intense.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  So here we go, right?

• 19:39Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Here go my education. She said, um, uh, uh, and I said, "Well, what color are you?" She said, "We're white." I said, "No, you're beige, like the crayons." See? So.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  She said, "Yeah, but that's what they call us." And I was like, "Well, that's stupid."

• 19:58Keke Palmer?

  Like, I remember having these conversations with my parents, but they were black. You know, they are black. So when I'm hearing you say this, and I'm thinking about, I really wish that I could know what kind of person that Barbara is, because she had the task of teaching you this and helping you to understand this. But then, at the same time, you were the kind of kid that was able to put up the Black Power fest in school. So you were also quite aware of having your pride around blackness, even within the confusion. So, I mean, was she sitting you down, having you watch movies? Like, how did she teach you about that? And you being able to integrate the love for your blackness,

• 20:38Keke Palmer?

  while also understanding clearly what some of the issues that could be around it because of race? Like, that was a lot.

• 20:51Keke Palmer?

  You know what just came back into my life like it never left?

• 20:55Keke Palmer?

  The Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte. And the second I saw it on my Starbucks app, I knew fall was just around the corner. The first sip took me right back to that fall feeling. And I remember how much I love this part of the year. I can't wait for the leaves to have their whole moment and the air to finally have some personality to it. When I actually want to be outside, instead of rushing past everything, that's what I'm excited for. It's funny how a walk I've done a hundred times feels brand new just because fall is almost here. That's the thing about fall rituals. They're familiar in the best way. The iconic Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte falls right into that category for me. Same drink, same me.

• 21:40Keke Palmer?

  But somehow, it feels like a whole moment every single time it comes back. So let this be your sign to slow down, soak the season in, and grab a Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte as fall begins. Celebrate fall with the return of the iconic Pumpkin Spice Latte. Order now on the Starbucks app.

• 22:02Keke Palmer?

  Tastes like fall.

• 22:05Keke Palmer?

  I think I just found our next family trip, and it's Asheville, North Carolina. Yes, September is when the leaves start turning, and I am building this entire trip around a porch. I need to find a home on Airbnb with a real porch, because I can already picture mornings out there with coffee and evenings watching the mountains change color while my parents pretend they're not getting emotional about it.

• 22:28Keke Palmer?

  I'm putting the River Arts District on the list, too, because watching glass blowers work is like the kind of thing that my sister will talk about for years. My dad's already asking if Asheville has good barbecue, which, yes, obviously, that's so locked in. We're also doing the Biltmore one afternoon. It's this gorgeous Gilded Age mansion right outside of the city that makes you feel like you've been transported to Versailles. I want to watch my parents walk those gardens like kids again. So what I'm saying is, find a place to stay on Airbnb in Asheville this fall. I'm building the whole trip around that porch so we can get that magical home away from home feel. And I'm not even sorry about it.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that was a great question, because that's how I, you know, that's how I learned to love love. Because I didn't know anything about that, right? But my family, that's white. My grandfather, I was spoiled. My grandfather was a cowboy from Wyoming. He did chemistry, he did, uh, he was a scientist that did work for coal mines in Bolivia. You know, so they spoke, uh, fluent Spanish and the whole nine yards. My grandfather would get on the floor with me when I'm playing cowboys and Indians and say, "All right, the Indians are the heroes, and the cowboys are not. Let's play." So it's the, yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, so if there's ever a stereotype, if every, there's a stereotype, there ain't. Because, because all black people ain't the same, and all white people ain't the same. You know, racism is-ism, and it ain't a wasm.

• 24:11Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, so these are the things that, the ethics, I paid for, I paid for, yesterday, I paid for not listening to my mama about the word bitch. Because if we say [BLEEP], [BLEEP], [BLEEP] anything, we got punished.

• 24:30Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Clean up all weekend, we had to go to our rooms, whatever. And I used that word in my comedy early on. You know, in reference to Dionne Warwick, just in a comedy thing. And her son hated, hated that, wanted to fight me, and I didn't see her for years. But she was a big part of my life. You know, she, her as a singer, she influenced me as a kid. Her and Burke Bakarack and all that beautiful music. You know, those people were revolutionary about getting together.

• 24:59Keke Palmer?

  There's a lot of feedback about the N-word, and it, we come across it up and down within our culture. Some people feel like it's a reclamation, and you have other people that feel like it is the opposite. You know what I mean? And so it's interesting. In the beginning of your comedy, you used it, but then as time went on, you were like, "Nah."

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Well, it didn't work no more. My mom was right. You know, she punished me for a reason. You know, and, and, and since I got, when I got to Hollywood, and I'm a comedian, I'm watching Eddie Murphy, I'm watching all these people, and, and, and, you know, that becomes a word that just gets thrown away and blah, blah, blah, blah. I met Dionne. It was my chance to apologize to her for that. And I didn't really realize that I broke my mother's, um, promise, you know? And so I was able to go to her room and give her a big old hug, and she was feeling it, too. She wasn't happy about, about that. But, you know, I learned through other means of learning how to live better,

• 26:03Speaker 01

  you know, through my own personal stuff, that apologies aren't nothing atonement and changing your behavior is. So I'm like, why sit here when you have a chance to go and apologize to her sincerely and personally? And I gave her the hug, and she gave me the biggest hug. And it was, wasn't until that moment that I really realized, again, how much I was loved. Because if it wasn't for my mother, well, if it wasn't for Helen Redding. Because, because, you know, "I am woman, hear me roar," and, and the women's movement, that's what freed us all. You know, that freed us all.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  I can have my own job, I ain't gotta be pregnant and, and, and in the kitchen and cooking for some men that's just, you know, I, I can be independent and all of these things, and that was the lesson that was taught. Not the lesson that was taught, that's the societal lesson that came out of the poor, poor, uh, uh, white women in this city that died in a fire somewhere in this city that couldn't even vote. You see? So, so, so power to the people.

• 27:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's that, it's that boomerang of a higher love.

• 27:21Keke Palmer?

  So you're also talking about, because I, I think I was misunderstanding, you're talking about the B-word. You called Dionne the B-word.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Right, what's in it?

• 27:28Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  What's in it?

• 27:29Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  And my mom taught me that early, and I, and, and I discarded it because I was on, I was on a train to this success as a comedian, and I didn't heed it.

• 27:43Keke Palmer?

  Well, this makes me ask you, ask you about what, because this is exactly where I was headed when it comes to comedy. And when it comes to perfor- performance, comedy, and how that aligns with what you truly believe and think, and when you're trying to sell a concept or a message. Like, how do you waver that? You know, because a lot of people feel like, "Well, this is stage, you know, this is a performance, so this is not what I believe, this is just the idea that I'm, you know, putting out." How do, because I think that's the question that a lot of comedians are asking themselves, because the public is pushing back more than ever as it pertains to the integrity of someone in their comedy.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  It's, it's the way of the world.

• 28:22Keke Palmer?

  How do you, how have you found, because somebody might say, "It's just a B-word," or "It's just the X, Y, and Z word," or "It's just a thing." But, I mean, you clearly feel that that impact carries further than just a joke.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, you know, the human impact doesn't really, really, really, uh, count until it impacts your ass. Okay? So, you know, the guy who says, "Just go ahead and send the missile, and if it kills the little girls in the school, okay." You do something like that for just money, you know, and, and it ain't one particular color that will do it. You know, and I learned that from Earth, Wind & Fire, "That's the way of the world."

• 29:04Keke Palmer?

  Love Earth, Wind & Fire.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  You know, yeah, plant, plant the flower, and you grow a pearl. It, it came from all of us. You know, the other guy had a song, "Bring me a higher love." We can go on and on. You know, uh, "The cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon, little boy throwing the man on the moon." American is important. It's, it's important more than just the color. It's important the culture. And it's, it's what it can instill in this crazy world. You know what I mean? And that's not a political statement. That's a statement about life and cycle and living. You know what I mean?

• 29:43Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, just the pattern. I mean, history would tell you that the pattern continues.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  You ain't changing nothing.

• 29:47Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean?

• 29:48Speaker 01

  You know, as an individual, but, but it starts there. You know, and this is all opinion, this is all subjective, this is all, it's coming from me, but I can talk today. You know, I can talk about the experiences. You know, a lot of times that the experience isn't there, or the information isn't there to back it up, then the belief isn't as strong. It's hard to, it's hard to.

• 30:12Keke Palmer?

  That is so true.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's hard to phone that in. You know? You tell me, you know, I looked at, I looked at this thing last night, and I was like, "Maybe this SpaceLink thing is good, because this laptop looks nice and silver, and maybe this is the way I can do my, my, it'll give me a new speed on my computer and stuff like that." It's got Starlink and all this. Wait a second! And I'm going, "Why is the person who got the most money in the damn world ain't giving nobody nothing?" And if you're mad about me, then, okay. But you're trying to make even more.

• 30:42Keke Palmer?

  But it's so true.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  So it's like, it's like, what you gonna do?

• 30:44Keke Palmer?

  It's so true what you're saying, because a lot of times.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  And I was ready to give a dollar. I'm ready to go like, "If that's all I gotta do to get more high speed on my, on my computer, then I'm gonna do it." And then I went, "Wait a second, why am I giving this dude another dime?" Not because of him personally.

• 30:59Keke Palmer?

  No, but just because of the functions of it all.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Not because of him personally.

• 31:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I get it.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Hey, man, my mama would kick my ass if I was the richest person on Earth, and I ain't break off a dollar for somebody who's hungry.

• 31:14Keke Palmer?

  It's true.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  And I ain't scared to say it.

• 31:16Keke Palmer?

  And I sometimes with myself and I'm sometimes thinking to myself, damn, like, I don't wanna think that everybody that has that type of cash is, you know, they have this thing online where it's like, there's no ethical billionaires, there's no ethical billionaires. You know, and it makes me feel like, damn, really? Could that be so true? But it it does leave you with the question of, damn, like, I mean, I don't know, cuz I'm not a billionaire. But I would hope to believe that I'd have something to break off.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  James Taylor, I seen fire and I seen rain.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  No facts that exist.

• 31:48Keke Palmer?

  What do that mean?

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Never, never thought I wouldn't see you again. This is limited.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  A bank account is limited to life's longevity. So whatever mountain you, I can, I can build a mountain of dollar bills, you know, damn near to the sun, but when it's time to go, I'm leaving it back here.

• 32:13Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  That's what James Taylor got to do with it. We, we, we all are involved. That's what you two got to do with it. That's what, that's what, that's what Kanye got to do with it. That's what all of us down here got to do with it. You know, I go to the bodega this morning, I'm so glad to be in New York, I'm like, give me a cheese and uh, give me a, a, a, a white bread with, with pastrami, American cheese, and um scrambled eggs and bap, I catch it in my hand.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  You know, there it goes. And it's good, too.

• 32:45Keke Palmer?

  That reminded me, when you just did that, that reminded me of this thing that you did in your standup where you was talking about Telemundo.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 32:51Keke Palmer?

  Do you remember that?

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Oh, do I.

• 32:53Keke Palmer?

  It was so.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  It's a part of me.

• 32:54Keke Palmer?

  It's the funniest thing, you're like.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right, it's a part of me. Yeah, everything I do is a part of me. Like I told you, my, my, my mother spoke um, fluent Spanish. So I understand fluent Spanish. I can't speak it. But I understand it, right? So in my neighborhood, if you're, if you were Guatemalan, Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Dominican, whatever can, you know, they came to my mother's house, and she would help them with this and help them with that, and help them with this and help them with that. And cyclically, if we look at what's going on now, and I only have my life force to communicate this for now.

• 33:38Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  If we're gonna separate from a part of us, then a part of us is gonna separate.

• 33:45Keke Palmer?

  But I don't understand how we have, we're in a place where everybody's so smart, but everybody don't see that. How smart could you be when everything is not, if, if it's not, literally physics is cyclical. Like literally, it has to continue. It cannot just go like that. And so I find myself very, you know, you gaslight yourself at a certain point where you're like, well, maybe it's something I don't get. Because how can anybody not see this? If we don't all help one another, well, obviously, we're, we're only as good as the worst. We're only doing, so if you're not, if you're doing good, you think, you really ain't doing that good if somebody else is doing really bad.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Hey, man, well, you know.

• 34:25Keke Palmer?

  I don't know why it doesn't.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  My grandfather would always say, um, he always would say, if everybody was the same, everybody be chasing after your grandmother.

• 34:35Keke Palmer?

  Now, what do that mean?

• 34:36Speaker 01

  That means that's his baby.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  That we ain't the same, that's his chick. That's my girl. We ain't the same.

• 34:45Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  You know, you, with my, with my grandpa, I'll tell you what, what happens. When my grandfather, uh, uh, had to have his lung removed when he was ninety-one, I was his favorite. If I boxed, he'd send me articles, letters, that's when people wrote letters. Like I was his number one dude. I got into photography, he sent me his first camera. He was born in nineteen hundred. Alright, he taught me uh, different names of different cultures by watching football games. You know, I mean, he made sure I was ready for all this, for this interview, I guess so.

• 35:13Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 35:14Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  When we went to UCLA Medical Center, when he was getting ready to go into that operation, he was ninety-one, his wife was eighty-five. Right?

• 35:26Speaker 01

  She walked in there to give him a kiss, they start making out like teenagers.

• 35:29Keke Palmer?

  Ah.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  I said, let me get out of here, let me get out of here. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so, so it all of a sudden made sense what he said to me, hey, if everybody was the same, everybody chasing after your grandmother. And I used to say, why would they do that?

• 35:44Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  You see what I'm saying? So they're not, and that's okay, that's a okay fact.

• 35:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  But, we're the same in the sense that if you blow our water away, we ain't got nothing to drink. If you blow our food away, we ain't got nothing to eat. If you blow us away, you ain't got nobody else.

• 36:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  So,

• 36:04Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  So the, the basic rules of the place, you know, were already made before we got here. We, we're like little monkeys that can talk now.

• 36:13Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  You know, you, you, you, you teach me the ABCs and, and, and, and then I can write, and then I say I don't believe in something bigger. Once you get all that in you.

• 36:24Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? But a beautiful part of what we are is something that we don't really realize. And it's good.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Race is good. Because before, we became organized societies and communities, we were just hunter-gatherers. When a group of us was on the side of a cliff, and we saw another group of us that looked different, the girl said, those guys look good over there. And the guy says, those girls, girls look good over there. And we ended up all these colors, and it's for a good reason.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  You know? So all we have, all we have, you know, and all of, none of this comes from what I know, it's, it's, it's, everything that comes from this moment, from what I've learned.

• 37:10Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Right?

• 37:11Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  So,

• 37:14Speaker 01

  we're all, you know, I'm here.

• 37:16Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  And so it's important for me to make sure that I try to pass on.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  It was a great question, it was the question for me of the day. To pass on that love.

• 37:33Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  And it don't seem corny to me.

• 37:35Keke Palmer?

  It ain't corny to me neither.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  It don't seem, I don't seem like, I don't feel any way about it. I don't feel, feel any way about what you love to do. I don't feel any way about who you are. I feel a way about us staying. Um, I don't know if you've seen Planet of the Apes, uh, but,

• 37:52Keke Palmer?

  Yep.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  I dug, my, my favorite character was, was, was Dr. Zayas. Dr. Zayas was the scientist

• 37:59Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  that was responsible for the ape, ape culture that took over the Earth.

• 38:03Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  And he was hiding humans from us. You know, so finally Charlton Heston, his character, flew into the, flew into the future, he thought this was really Earth and it would've been taken over by a whole nother culture of animal.

• 38:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Right, which was the apes.

• 38:17Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  And he couldn't stand humans. He couldn't stand him. When they found out that Charlton Heston, when that scientist found out Charlton Heston could talk, he said, we in trouble.

• 38:25Keke Palmer?

  Uh-oh.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Don't damn try to ruin the place. You know, and I, I liked him because he had a nice orange outfit, he had, he had the little sandals that had the little ape toe out and everything. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, had the turtleneck, mock neck and all, I'm like, I think he's kinda cool, you know what I mean? And um, it wasn't till after the whole thing was done, where he was, where, where Taylor had the gun on him. Someone kill you. You know, why are you keeping this from the apes? And he said, because you're gonna destroy us. You know? And so Charlton walked out of there, got on the porch with the white chick, rode off into the sunset and saw the Statue of Liberty leaning in the beach.

• 39:05Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  And he said, you did it. You know? Damn you all to hell, you did it. You blew up our own place. Jamaican say, you, you blew up the place. The place. You know, so I'm a little bit of everybody that's here. I'm a little bit of Jamaican, I'm a little bit French, a little bit Polish.

• 39:24Keke Palmer?

  Come on, Polish, yeah.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  I'm a little bit of all the things. You know, I am, you know, genetically what I am.

• 39:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  And we all are. But I'm, I'm a part of um, I'm a part of the psychedelic movement. I'm, I'm a part of the hippies.

• 39:40Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  My mom and them were hippies.

• 39:42Keke Palmer?

  That's so dope.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  I'm a part of the, I'm a, grew up, one of those kids that grew up where, when um, when ecology was hip. When you took care of environment. When love was hip. Right?

• 39:53Keke Palmer?

  How do we get back there?

• 39:54Speaker 01

  It was hip, we're there.

• 39:56Keke Palmer?

  So I feel.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  We're there, it's just, we just gotta, we just gotta negotiate our path.

• 39:59Keke Palmer?

  I feel that we are there, and then I also feel that something else is going on. But I'm following the wave of feeling that we're there.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we just humans being now. You know, we're just humans being and we're, we're still on our, our trajectory here. We don't know what this planet is gonna present in the future or whatever. But we're here.

• 40:18Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  And so, you know, we have human problems. You know, and, and, and every day we try to, we try to just do the best we can with it. And we got things that hold us together.

• 40:27Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Love is one of them. Communication is another. You know, patience is another. And gratitude is another. Start to learn as you go. Tolerance is another. I didn't know these things before. I used to be mad at my mother. I'm like, why did you bring me to a ghetto in DC to grow up when you're white? You know what I mean? Like, I got my, I got, you know, you had choices, you know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, and she, she end up, she end up, yeah, man.

• 40:58Keke Palmer?

  For me, the turn back.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, and she ended up being, I end up turning into her.

• 41:04Keke Palmer?

  You know who you kinda remind me of too when you're doing, yeah, man, Sammy. Did you ever hear that?

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Where's your camera? Where, where's your, uh, where's your, uh, close-up camera?

• 41:15Keke Palmer?

  This is you.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm only looking at you with one eye. You'll know what that means because he's Jewish and, and you guys will get hip to that later, but uh, he was Puerto Rican, he was a Jew and black.

• 41:25Keke Palmer?

  Gosh.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Everywhere he moved, he got thrown out.

• 41:30Keke Palmer?

  That's who you are.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Hava Nagila, hava nagila, hava nagila, hey, ismaha.

• 41:39Keke Palmer?

  I'm a holy.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Hold on, I wanted to throw in the Candyman with that. Hava nagila, hava nagila, hava, the Candyman. Okay, anyway, and this isn't Candy Bait.

• 41:51Keke Palmer?

  And this isn't Candy Bait.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway.

• 41:53Keke Palmer?

  That's crazy. Oh, my gosh.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  By the way, I'm, I'm playing him finally in a movie that's coming to theaters this year.

• 42:00Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  It took 24 years.

• 42:02Keke Palmer?

  What movie?

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Sammy is what it's called.

• 42:06Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. I can not wait.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  You said that, you said that like Sammy. I can not wait. It's, it's spreading around you guys. Hava nagila, hava, you know?

• 42:20Keke Palmer?

  You are too good.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  Where are you, Adam Sandler? I need you right now.

• 42:23Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, I love Adam. I mean, wait a minute, you got me thinking about.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  What am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? I got with, I got Boston, I got Marky Mark, I got Adam Sandler, I got, I got, I got Slash, I got, I got.

• 42:34Keke Palmer?

  Slash.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  I got, I got Chuck D, I got, we got that.

• 42:39Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, all these impressions.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Look what we got. No, look what we got. Look what we got, you know?

• 42:46Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:47Keke Palmer?

  When you think about your comedy from the beginning of your days, we're talking in Living Color, you know, stand-up, sketch, all that stuff, to now, what, what did success look like for you then?

• 43:06Keke Palmer?

  Discover Pandora Talisman, a new collection designed to help you express every side of who you are. Because the most powerful statement you can make is being yourself. I'm a Virgo, capital V, which means I notice everything, I remember everything, and I have opinions about everything. But I keep most of them in a very organized mental filing cabinet. That's the sign. Analytical on the inside, polished on the outside, and deeply particular about what we put on our bodies. So when I tell you I found my Zodiac symbol in the Pandora Talisman collection, and immediately thought, finally, somebody captured what it feels like to be this. I mean that. It's not just a cute charm, it's the whole ethos.

• 43:50Keke Palmer?

  Pandora Talisman understood the assignment because the whole collection is built on that idea. Personalized pieces, meaningful symbols, designs that reflect what you stand for and how you choose to show up. I've been styling mine as a conversation starter. Someone asks about the piece, and suddenly we're talking about identity, about what it means to carry something on our body that represents who you actually are. That's not just accessories, that's communication. I've been layering mine with gold pieces on days I feel bold, or wearing it solo on a thin chain when I want something quiet that still says something loud. Pandora Talisman, a new language of self-expression, because every version of you deserves to be seen.

• 44:34Keke Palmer?

  Shop new styles in store or online at pandora.net. This episode is supported by FX's The Drop, a snowfall saga. Wanda and Leon are back, but this time they're chasing a different kind of legacy. As West Coast rap begins to take over 90s Los Angeles, Wanda is betting on a new generation of artists ready to make a name for themselves in hip-hop. But in a city where every opportunity comes with a price, they'll have to decide what they're willing to risk to leave their mark. FX's The Drop premieres September 8th on FX and Hulu. I cannot tell you how much makeup I have bought that looked right in the store and then betrayed me in natural light.

• 45:18Keke Palmer?

  The audacity. I'd get home, blend it out, step outside, and suddenly I'm looking casket-ready. Two shades off and not a single person said anything. Sephora fixed that for me. Okay, they have the best brands all in one place with a range of shades, coverage levels, and finishes, so you're not just guessing and hoping for the best. Right now, I'm wearing my favorite Hourglass Vanish Airbrush Full Coverage Longwear Concealer for natural finish that's long-lasting. Okay, it is my perfect match. Can't you tell? Get a close-up look. Plus, their beauty advisors and shade matching tools take the guesswork out entirely, in-store or online.

• 46:01Keke Palmer?

  So no more settling, no more close enough. Visit Sephora to find your match.

• 46:10Keke Palmer?

  You know, you won the Apollo, you're this comedian, you know, this, everybody knows you as this guy. But over the course of your career, has that, has your, have your goals changed and what comedy has meant to you?

• 46:21Speaker 01

  It affected me like Kansas, you know? Yeah. Carry on my way, we're so.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  There'll be peace when you are done.

• 46:35Keke Palmer?

  The singing is great.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Let you weary cat to rest. Don't you cry no more. Kansas, Kansas. Dorothy is from Kansas.

• 46:43Keke Palmer?

  The singing is great.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  So she went from colors when she got knocked out.

• 46:46Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  To come back to her little black and white world, and she was happy.

• 46:49Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, cuz home.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Kansas again. John Brown, Kansas. That state didn't want to become a slavery state. So he decided, I'm gonna take that revolution on to myself. He took some slaves, got some guns, went down to Harpers Ferry. They walked, there was no airplanes. Went to get more guns and got killed along with his son and some slaves that joined him. So I did a song called Kid Zero, which is me. There's a painting of him coming out of court where a slave woman, a black African slave woman, had her child kiss him on the cheek. And under her were white kids, black kids, and all kind of kids.

• 47:26Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  So I said, oh, wait a minute, I'm kind of like Kid Zero. I'm kind of like one of the, one of the black people that know that there's well-meaning whites in this country. And I catch flak from that, like Sammy kissed Nixon, and all the blacks jumped on him, you know what I mean? So I'm okay with that. Um, what are we gonna do? So when you ask me Kansas, these are the only answers I have. You know, my brother, who was white, Michael Davidson, gay, didn't know till I was 20-something, right?

• 47:56Keke Palmer?

  He didn't know either?

• 47:57Speaker 01

  No, he knew, but I didn't know.

• 47:59Keke Palmer?

  You didn't know?

• 47:59Speaker 01

  I used to call him a punk, cause you don't help me with these people who are jumping me all the time. You know what I mean? You can't fight, you can't do nothing. But he brought me that album, Kansas. He brought me Fleetwood Mac, he brought me Earth, Wind & Fire.

• 48:12Keke Palmer?

  He gave you what he had?

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, and I didn't know he was keeping me out of the street with those albums.

• 48:16Keke Palmer?

  Come on.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  So all that stuff is in me now. But what he did with his life was, he was one of the first people to, uh, to get AIDS.

• 48:27Keke Palmer?

  Wow, really? I'm sorry to hear that.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  So him and his friends in, in, in, um, I think it's called Capitol Hill in Seattle where he had moved, cause he was dying. They went to Congress.

• 48:38Keke Palmer?

  I'm so sorry.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  They went to Congress, and they got the government to make AIDS a legal disease so that gays can be insured for it. You see? My mother turned her projects into co-op.

• 49:00Keke Palmer?

  Meaning?

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Meaning you own your own apartment. She used to work for the housing, for HUD. And that was one of her greatest accomplishments, she did that. She also, uh, passed a law that community, communities, the community collectives of a city cannot accept government funding unless each community says that their budget's okay. And I found that out at her freaking funeral. You know what I mean? These people around me. You know, like Dorothy came back and was finally like, oh, okay, you know, we ain't got much money. But that show is my uncle over there.

• 49:44Keke Palmer?

  Why?

• 49:44Speaker 01

  That show is my honey.

• 49:46Keke Palmer?

  It's true, it's real.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so we're not, you know, what's that song? Uh, living in her own time. Uh, that's Philip Bailey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're living in our own time. So I got taught by art. I got taught by everything around me that got put into me. Oliver got put into me. I'm like, why you gonna starve the little, little white boy?

• 50:11Keke Palmer?

  They have some more.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  This London kid, yeah. Like, give him some more oatmeal, it ain't even that good. You know what I mean? Like, I had, I had to surmise all these things in my, you know what I mean?

• 50:20Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  In my head.

• 50:21Keke Palmer?

  I really understand you.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  About what was going on around me. You know, you take the head to the heart, you, you know? You know, ancient Africans believed that, hey, you know, the head was like a computer.

• 50:31Keke Palmer?

  Yes. Oh, my gosh, yes. Absolutely.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  But if you store information.

• 50:35Keke Palmer?

  Absolutely.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  In order, in order, which was called an education.

• 50:40Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  Then you can recapture that.

• 50:43Keke Palmer?

  Absolutely.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Through feelings in the heart and have that come back to you.

• 50:47Keke Palmer?

  You have an extraordinarily fast processor. I can only imagine how difficult over the course of your life, not to make you feel odd, but just going back to the story that you told about your mother at the table and people laughing, because you are already at, at, at, at chapter 10. Before somebody finishes their first sentence.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:10Keke Palmer?

  How have you managed that in your life? Obviously, you've managed it through probably your craft, but your pattern recognition and your ability to, your math as ontology is quite fast. How have you been able to move through life like that?

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Uh, observation, observation, you know, like, we're not gonna know. We're not gonna really know. You know what I'm saying? But, but, but there are signs.

• 51:39Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  You see what I'm saying? There are signs, you know?

• 51:42Keke Palmer?

  Metacognition.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  If you, if you, if you coming home from a club, and you've been drinking or whatever, and it's about 5:00 in the morning, and you're at a light, and, and, and somebody comes through the light, you know, on their way to work, or they got their little dog in the car, the dog's going, something wrong with you, and I know it.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  You are not like the, you are not like the person that I'm next to right now. You do not have to go to work, and I'm a dog.

• 52:08Keke Palmer?

  Yo.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? Like, there's something under it.

• 52:11Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  There's something under it, man.

• 52:12Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  And, and, and, and, and, um, it's the same thing under the sidewalk.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Because it'll crack for grass.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  There's this substance that we created that you can make solid as a rock.

• 52:26Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  And the sun's way, way up there.

• 52:30Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  And the only way they can come up is that.

• 52:33Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  So something invisible said, eh, I'm moving that, come on. Come on, you might be a tomato.

• 52:38Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  You might be a pear. You know, these little monkeys might wanna eat that.

• 52:43Keke Palmer?

  Right. How often do you find that people think it's just jokes? And I'm asking, this is a double thing too, right? Because you obviously did in Living Color. It makes me think about your friendship with Jim Carrey and how close you've said that you guys are. I feel like you guys are probably similar in this regard where it seems like, uh, people are looking at the monitor of the computer. They're looking at the output, what's externalized in the expression, but often not what's processing the output.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Well, he's, he's black and I'm white, uh, cuz he's Canadian. That's a long story.

• 53:17Keke Palmer?

  I love Canadians.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  That's a long story. Uh, the, the, the War of 1812. Just look at the documentary, you'll know what I'm talking about. You know, they all, yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll know what I'm talking about. I'm like, they all with the idiot's land, what's going on? You know what I'm saying? They're French and what? I don't understand it. But it'll come to you. You know what I mean?

• 53:35Keke Palmer?

  Howling.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We, we benefit from the Maybelline, we benefit from everything around us. You know what I mean? Uh, uh, uh, uh, the hardest part is you got to get the whole collective on the same page. And we're all so different from all different backgrounds and represented by all different types of people. That, um, I got this from a movie, uh, uh, The Day the Earth Stood Still, the one with Keanu Reeves.

• 54:02Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  And, um, Jaden, and Jaden Smith.

• 54:05Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  And at the end, you know, the alien comes here to make friends and say, hey, we're gonna shut you guys down. Because you're one of the only, you're one of the only self-sustaining solar systems we have in the whole universe. So we're gonna take all the animals and stuff off of here, and then we're gonna kill y'all. You know, and, and, and they were doing it. And at the end, the, the, the woman and the survivors finally were able to talk to the alien. And a scientist who, who, who is hip to, you know, physics, all the stuff that we don't know about.

• 54:43Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  You know, like another wonderful Jew that, that got the, got the atom split. And they said, let's make a bomb, you know? Um, um, um.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Simply, right? That's pretty simply put, right? Right, right? If it wasn't for Soli and Abe at their deli in LA, I wouldn't be here because they let me go to comedy clubs when I worked at the deli. So every, every, every one of us is a part of the damn thing.

• 55:10Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? But I forgot what I was talking about. Oh, so, so, he says, so, the, the, the alien says, well, that's it. This is, that was your last chance.

• 55:22Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  And you haven't been able to do that. And he said, yeah, but at the precipice, we always find a way.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  And if right now, for this country, this isn't the precipice? And I'm just a person.

• 55:37Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  I'm just one of us, right?

• 55:41Speaker 01

  If we don't realize that we're at the precipice now, then the rest is clearly evident. That's opinion.

• 55:52Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  It's clearly evident.

• 55:54Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  And I'm going from, I'm going from, um, from our practical means of, of global communication.

• 56:02Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  You know, enough gotta be enough for somebody.

• 56:05Keke Palmer?

  And I'm going from continuously what I've seen.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:08Keke Palmer?

  I'm going just from,

• 56:11Keke Palmer?

  I'm looking at patterns.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 56:13Keke Palmer?

  You know, and, and, and if I'm looking at patterns, I'm, I'm, I'm, I don't wanna say I'm scared, but I ain't excited.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  Well, I ain't scared because, because, because, you know, uh, uh, I, I, I've seen it pretty clear.

• 56:25Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  You know, historically, and, and historically, you could tell a baby this, uh, uh, uh, that it's never really worked that one small group of people run the whole place.

• 56:36Keke Palmer?

  It doesn't, you know what I mean?

• 56:37Speaker 01

  So let's go through, let's go through Rome. Let's go through, um, Germany.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Let's go through Pompeii. Let's go through Egypt.

• 56:46Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  To almost 3,000 years of civilized.

• 56:51Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Culture.

• 56:54Keke Palmer?

  Things have to come around.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  And, and, you know, they, they didn't seem to share or whatever.

• 57:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  You know, they're back there.

• 57:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  I'm not going from, from, um, I'm not going from an educated standpoint.

• 57:09Keke Palmer?

  Sure.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  I'm going from the information this

• 57:11Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  human being has taken in up to this point.

• 57:13Keke Palmer?

  Observationally.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  And I'm seeing it.

• 57:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  But

• 57:19Speaker 01

  I'll say this, I'm powerless over it. You know what I mean? I'm just glad, you know, I, sometimes I don't know if I gotta do number one or number two. I just go in the bathroom because I'm getting older now, and I don't know which one gonna happen first. It's just practical cuz I don't wanna be doing that out in the lobby.

• 57:35Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 57:38Keke Palmer?

  Yes, I know exactly what you mean. And it, it, it gets to the point where you can be in it, you can be in it, and then you just gotta be out of it cuz it's out of your control.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Hey, man.

• 57:45Keke Palmer?

  You know, it's like, we could talk, we could get it, we could fund it, and then it's kinda like, I'ma let it do what it's gonna do.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:50Keke Palmer?

  You know, and that's

• 57:50Speaker 01

  And take it how it is.

• 57:51Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, and take it how it is. That's how I think, that's how I have to deal with it too. You know, it's just taking it how it is and knowing that, um, I'm doing the best with what I can, like, like that Mariah Carey clip. I'm doing the best with what I got.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Right. So today, right? So me here today, let's check in, right?

• 58:07Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  I'm thinking, I'm at the wrong hotel. I really wanted to be on the Upper West Side. I mean, I'm at the Upper East Side, I mean, the Midway, uh, uh, open in Murray Hill, I like.

• 58:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  In New York, when I come, I like to stay in Murray Hill. And I got mad at my wife a little bit, it's like, hey, man, we should've got that, that, that, that. And the only reason why I was mad about that is because I was freezing to death, one. And my favorite Chinese restaurant.

• 58:32Keke Palmer?

  You want your spot?

• 58:33Speaker 01

  I was in my little spot.

• 58:34Keke Palmer?

  We love a routine.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  Right, you see what I'm saying? So, you know, you, you know, luckily, Chinatown was there. You know, I ain't had nothing to do with that, but when I went out there, I was like, I'm good, I'm good. I'm good.

• 58:46Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  I go get me a duck chop, chop, chop. Oh, they, they speak my language anyhow, shut up here, you know? You know, they're like black folks, shut up, I give you a minute, you know? You, you know what I mean? It's just like, you, you know, white folks in Jackson, Mississippi or somewhere like that. You want it or not, either you're gonna have it or not, my man. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You're just gonna, you're gonna get it how you get it.

• 59:08Keke Palmer?

  He's gonna have it or not, my man.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  Americans are pretty fair. Hey, when they talk, when they, when they talk, they're pretty fair. You know, you know what I mean? This, this country's pretty fair. You know? Yeah, lady told, lady told me this morning, no, we don't, we don't, so it was straight to my face. And I like some espresso, she said, well, complimentary coffee is at the bar. And if you really want an espresso, you gotta go upstairs to the cafe. And I was like, okay, I'll do that.

• 59:32Keke Palmer?

  I'm taking my ass up.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I sat there, I sat there like, at the bar, like, I'm just gonna get me a plain old coffee.

• 59:38Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my god.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  But then I saw the cafe was right there.

• 59:41Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  So I had to wait in line for a little bit and this, that, and the other thing. But I discovered that the dude that was giving it to me was from Mexico.

• 59:49Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  And we talked about that, and I said, I'm from Mexico. He said, really? I said, yeah, Los Angeles. And he said, I've never been there. I'm like, you gotta go to Mexico, man, you're missing out.

• 59:59Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, there's so much beauty around us.

• 1:00:03Keke Palmer?

  You are so ridiculous.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  And we're all covered up in it.

• 1:00:06Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  You remember the movie Glory?

• 1:00:07Keke Palmer?

  Of, oh, my gosh, my parents made me watch that when I was a kid. I was pissed.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  Okay, so you remember this scene?

• 1:00:13Keke Palmer?

  Why the hell they made me watch that?

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Because you'll remember this scene because this scene was really important, right? In this. So here's a civil war, right? Here's the slaves from 400 years of labor that have a chance to kick in, right? They don't get a chance to fight with their guns, right? Okay, cool, right? So there's one of them who is, who is a, a, a male slave that's been abused all his life. He's full of hate. He can't, you know, and finally, he's, he's accepted into the ranks as who he is. Matthew Broderick is from abolitionist money. Okay, right? Enjoy the play, Lincoln and all that stuff, right?

• 1:00:55Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  We don't like you because of this. We, the Irish, you know, were part of the whole thing and kicked in their stuff, even though they have [BLEEP] here. You know what I mean? All right? They had Tammany Hall, long story, but they got their stuff, you know what I mean? We're kind of in Tammany Hall now too. So, so, so here they are. Here's this cultured white boy that grew up in Boston, Massachusetts. That's the Colonel, right? And they're going to their suicide.

• 1:01:25Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:01:26Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  These black men are like, we're willing to sacrifice our lives for this fort.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  And the Matthew Broderick character comes to the lowly, bitter slave. And he said, I mean, pick the conversation with me.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  This all stinks, doesn't it?

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  And the slave said, oh, yeah. Stink real bad too. And we all covered up in it too.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  They go and do the battle. Him and Matthew end up dead on the flag. Now, I go to military bases around the world for 35 years, okay? And one of the most wonderful things about our military is, is that they promote by merit, not by sex, your orientation or color. So you know how many bases or subs I've been in where they said, the, the, you wanna meet the, the, the sailor of the year? And it's a little Filipino girl from Frisco. [BLEEP], you know? Hi, Tommy, you know? You know? I'm, I'm at, I'm at a, I'm at a missile range in, uh, Iraq.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  And they say, and it's the radar system that governs that whole area.

• 1:02:47Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Iraq's over there, no, Iraq rains over there, Iraq's over here, whatever it is, I get mixed up, right?

• 1:02:54Keke Palmer?

  I'm not geography.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  But whatever it was, they said, you wanna meet the main guy who runs these radar systems? And it was a Dominican from Grand Concourse.

• 1:03:05Keke Palmer?

  Now, what the hell is Grand Concourse?

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Up in the Bronx, where they shot New Jack City. Where you can get, uh, you can get, uh, Jordan weed and, and, and three Newport's for a dollar.

• 1:03:20Keke Palmer?

  Now, how does this all tie in?

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  It ties in that everybody that's protecting us is us.

• 1:03:32Keke Palmer?

  It all becomes so crazy, Tommy.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  It's one thing.

• 1:03:34Keke Palmer?

  But it is so, the irony is also so painful and satirical.

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  You cut down Cuba, you cut down us.

• 1:03:41Keke Palmer?

  But that's why, because that's why it's happening.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  You cut down Haiti, you cut down us, you cut down France, you cut down us.

• 1:03:46Keke Palmer?

  I must say this.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  And it's not, that's not partisan. I just learned that word from YouTube, actually. Um, um, I said, they said it enough. I mean, I think that means the two different parties. You know what I mean? I remember the party Allison Wonderland had, because I liked the cat with the hat, you know what I mean? And the worm, because they was chilling. But, but, but, you know, she got caught in the damn house, it got too big for her ass.

• 1:04:07Keke Palmer?

  When people use those words, so much you do end up using, like partisan.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  I've never said partisan in my life. What the hell is going on?

• 1:04:16Keke Palmer?

  It gets like that. It gets like that.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:18Keke Palmer?

  It do. But you know, it, it just becomes, this is why I don't think that comedy gets enough credit, like meaning satire, because it's actually quite horrific.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:04:30Keke Palmer?

  Like satire, when you really get down to comedy in that regard, it's so true that it's painful. Like what you just said right now, it's so ironic, it's so ridiculous.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:04:40Keke Palmer?

  How we could be constantly fighting ourselves, but confidently doing so.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, when our eyes are outside.

• 1:04:45Keke Palmer?

  It's a joke.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, when our eyes are outside somebody else's mind. Uh, uh, I could never, I never could get really the butcher. You got blood on you all day. You know, I, I, you know, I'm not gonna, that, you want to do that. That's his thing. I was watching a documentary on the Gilded Age, you know, uh, Teddy, or Roosevelt, you know, in the Gilded Age.

• 1:05:10Keke Palmer?

  I thought we were going to Pendergrass, I wasn't sure.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, I love him now.

• 1:05:14Keke Palmer?

  Could have been any Teddy.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Close the door, you know what I'm saying? But, but, they were showing, uh, the other Roosevelt.

• 1:05:24Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  Who, him and his wife, were really staunch about reforms. So, I, I, they, they talked about the meat, the, the, the meat, uh.

• 1:05:39Keke Palmer?

  Industry.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  What's down in the, where all the nice clubs are now?

• 1:05:42Keke Palmer?

  Meatpacking industry.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, that's everywhere, because you gotta pack meat to eat, right? And every city had them, Chicago and whatever.

• 1:05:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  So, it was so poor and squalor, the rich were way up here, that you could actually sell rotten meat to the poor. But when those reforms came around, you saw blacks and whites and all of them working in the butcher shops.

• 1:06:10Keke Palmer?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  See, so I, I wouldn't want to be a butcher, but I love being a comedian. So, pick what you want.

• 1:06:18Keke Palmer?

  Sure. Pick what you can handle.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Pick what you want, but if we're gonna be, uh, uh, the human race, right? I call it the human race for now, because we're racing, we're all racing for the earth's resources, for water, for oil, for money, for sex, for this, for that. It's all the things we love that we live with, right?

• 1:06:42Keke Palmer?

  Consumption.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  Right? But, if we look at things from a mankind.

• 1:06:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Standpoint.

• 1:06:50Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Then we're looking at our own kind.

• 1:06:54Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  But, you know, it can get a little bit, you know, you see a passenger get busted in the head with a, with a, with a tear gas thing, you would think that everybody would say, okay, stop this now.

• 1:07:08Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  Stop it now, you know? And you're sitting at home going, I wish they would stop this now, you know? But 24 hours in the day, and blah, blah, blah, you know? So, just, you know, we go a minute at a time where we are, and, you know, this vessel right here can tell you whatever it wants to. But, but, that was the perfect question, because I guess that was what I was supposed to talk about today, you know?

• 1:07:32Keke Palmer?

  And we talked about so much. I think people gonna be chewing up on this. People gonna be chewing up on this.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  It triggered it.

• 1:07:37Keke Palmer?

  Because your mind is pretty, uh, it's pretty incredible, Tommy.

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  It's not my own. You know, it's been influenced by a lot, but I'm glad that, look, listen. I was able to, uh, there's a song that I have, I'm actually selling something, finally. Uh, uh, there's a song that I have called, uh, "Mind, Heart and Soul." El DeBarge wrote it. His family is like all of ours, they got dysfunction, they got all this stuff, but they're here and they love each other, right?

• 1:08:04Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  So, I was able to take a Norman Rockwell painting and get the rights to be in the middle of it for this. And Norman Rockwell is one of the most famous paintings of Americana. On the front of Washington Post, when we were able to go to public schools, he put the little girl in the front of it. And then he has this one painting I never forgot when I was a kid, because I was always trying to fit in. So, when I saw stuff like that, it attracted to me.

• 1:08:33Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  So, I wanted that, to, to be a part of that. So, the cover of this song, "Heart, Mind and Soul," includes that painting, and I'm in it. And Norman Rockwell is on my shoulder going, hmm, that's interesting. And I'm not the Tommy Davidson Davidson, I'm Tommy Davidson Barbara Davidson's son. That's my legacy, you know? We gain understanding as we go.

• 1:09:05Keke Palmer?

  Well, thank you so much, Tommy. You are insane, incredible, amazing, and just fascinating. That's the best way that I can put it. So fascinating.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  I beat my ass over that.

• 1:09:16Keke Palmer?

  Thank you for coming on the show.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  I am so proud of your progression. And you have hung in there from the very, very, very, very, very beginning, man. Proud Family almost didn't happen.

• 1:09:27Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh!

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 1:09:28Keke Palmer?

  I'm so happy I got to be a part of it.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, your trajectory, this, this is a part of it. You got a platform, you know?

• 1:09:39Keke Palmer?

  Thanks.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  All right? You got a platform, man.

• 1:09:42Keke Palmer?

  That means a lot. It really, really does.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, hey, man.

• 1:09:46Keke Palmer?

  Hey!

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  All right? Love you, girl.

• 1:09:49Keke Palmer?

  Love you.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:09:53Keke Palmer?

  Wow. What I took away from that is that identity isn't something you lock in. It's something you live through. And every season asks something different of you, but the goal is to stay rooted in who you are even as you grow. So, to everybody listening, let yourself change. Let yourself expand and don't question the version of you that you're becoming. I'll see you next time, because, baby, this is Keke Palmer.