Devon Franklin from Hollywood hits to heartbreak and healing, producer talks faith, divorce, rebuilding identity, help from Will Smith, believing in love again and the power of pivoting.

“You don’t know what grace is, until you are in need of it.” Devon Franklin Lights, Camera, Faith- we get a behind the scenes look into the story of Devon Franklin, producer, bestselling author, husband, preacher, and purpose-driven leader for one of the most reflective conversations we've had on The Pivot Podcast. His story is proof that success isn’t just about achievement—it’s about alignment, growth, and the courage to start over when life changes direction. From Hollywood success to personal setbacks and rediscovering joy, Devon brings powerful lessons on resilience, purpose, and trusting the process. It’s a raw, inspiring discussion about letting go, betting on yourself, and having the courage to pivot into the next chapter of your life. He speaks about his gratitude for Will Smith's role in his life as well as being confident enough to take the risk of leaving a "safe" powerhouse film company to pursue his own passion of filmmaking driven by passion and purpose over position. From developing major studio hits to producing faith-inspired films for mainstream audiences, Devon's career is on the rise with no signs of slowing down. Personally, Devon talks openly about the grief, self-reflection, and healing that followed his very public divorce from Meagan Good—sharing how the experience forced him to redefine love, identity, and expectations. He opens up about heartbreak, healing, and what it really takes to move forward when the life you planned suddenly changes. But this conversation isn’t just about loss—it’s about taking chances again. Devon shares how he found the courage to believe in love again, why faith and vulnerability are essential to growth, how embracing uncertainty can lead you exactly where you’re meant to be and to always trust that life can still unfold in beautiful ways after disappointment. Pivot Family, comment, like, hit the subscribe button, we enjoy hearing and learning from you- the good and the bad, we want to know! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Running a small business means I wear lots of hats. When I put on my hiring hat, I can count on LinkedIn Hiring Pro to make it easy. LinkedIn Hiring Pro helps manage my hiring workflow, puts my job post in front of a unique network of professionals, and matches me with the best candidates for my business. I can also share my job with my network. No other job site lets me do that. No wonder most small businesses say they'd use LinkedIn Hiring Pro again. Hire right the first time. Post your job for free on LinkedIn today at LinkedIn.com/quality.

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  Devon Franklin isn't a pastor, and he wanted to make that clear. But he is a preacher, and he loves the Lord. But he also loves the career he's been able to build in Hollywood. He's always been big on dreams, and when he set off to go to school at USC, he knew exactly what he wanted to do. But it still took time to build. I mean, this is a guy that went from interning on projects associated with Will Smith to producing them. And all through this time, yes, life was lifing. He had been married and then divorced, and he found himself in a hotel room in what he called a, excuse my language, what-the-fuck moment. He shared stories of his journeys, how he rebuilt himself personally and found love.

• 1:11Ryan Clark?

  We also chomped up about his career ascension and the changes as he talks about being in front of the camera. Now, the sky's the limit for Devon Franklin, and he couldn't be more excited. But this isn't where his family wanted him to be. He was supposed to be the local preacher and taking over the local church, the family church. But he had other things in mind. And look where it landed him. From working with Will Smith to recently producing projects with Method Man and Kelly Rowland, he's everything that he wanted to be, all while finding new love. This show is full of joy and revelation, and me, Chan, and Freddie T couldn't be more excited to share it with you. Enjoy the pivot as Devon Franklin sits down with us right now.

• 2:15Ryan Clark?

  What up, brother? My man, how you doing?

• 2:17Channing Crowder?

  I'm doing good.

• 2:18Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir. Good to see you.

• 2:19Channing Crowder?

  What's up, man?

• 2:23Ryan Clark?

  Oh, man, Divine Franklin, welcome to The Pivot. Yeah. Very excited to have you. This is The Pivot, this is Channing Crowder, this is Fred Taylor, Ryan Clark. Pivot fam, thank you for pivoting with us. So, you know, these things work, right? And I don't normally pull my phone out during the show, but there's been a lot of talk of thirst trapping going on, right? And so I said, clearly... Hilarious, okay. I was like, I know Dee Frank ain't never thirst trapped. And then I got to, because you know he like to call out rows and slots now. I got to row 15, slide 1. And I said, "Does he have all his man cleavage?"

• 3:02Channing Crowder?

  Them traps and that.

• 3:06Ryan Clark?

  I'm trying to keep up with y'all. I said, "Okay."

• 3:10Fred Taylor?

  They gonna find you.

• 3:11Ryan Clark?

  Hey, you know what I'm saying?

• 3:12Fred Taylor?

  That's right, they gonna find you.

• 3:14Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean? Don't let the smooth taste fool you. I love it, bro. Oh, man. You are hilarious. That was a good one. I was just like, hey, we all got one. We all got...

• 3:26Channing Crowder?

  We all love the Lord, but the Lord has to love us back.

• 3:29Ryan Clark?

  Well, hey, he created the temple. He created the temple, so you know, what we do with the temple is just a way to honor him.

• 3:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm sorry, yeah, I'm sorry.

• 3:35Ryan Clark?

  Do you think David did not need muscles to pull that slingshot?

• 3:41Ryan Clark?

  Nah, man, but welcome to the show, man. Really excited. You know, I think so many times, the way you're presented to the world... Yeah. Or to a large, a larger mass of people, is the way they always see you. What's been really cool about hearing you talk and seeing you more is, oh, wait, he did that? Wait, he was a part of that? Wait, he knows this person? So I thought it was really good to start to hear you more. I want to ask, you talked about grace recently. Yeah. Right? So... How difficult is it when you are sweeping up the vase? And people are asking you how it broke? How difficult is it to keep that grace? Not only for yourself, but also, you know,

• 4:26Ryan Clark?

  that grace also protects other people who have been in your orbit.

• 4:30Speaker 04

  Man, listen, it's like you don't know what grace is until you're in need of it. And what I mean by that is like, you know, growing up in the church, you know, we're always taught, you know, God's grace, God's mercy. But when things are going great, you don't really understand what grace is. So, you know, for me, when we're talking about, you know, when my life started to fall apart and I was trying to figure out, okay, well, how do I put the pieces back together? That's when I really understood God's grace, which is be patient with yourself. Give yourself the space to process your life and to analyze what you've been through. And so for me, in that moment, when I had to accept the grace,

• 5:15Speaker 04

  that was hard because it's like, well, I don't want to need grace. I just want to go ahead and move and live life and let everybody know everything's cool. But then God was like, why would you be living for them? Let yourself experience what I have for you. Because then, as I accepted that grace, then I knew what it really meant. And then I could offer that grace. And part of that grace is we all make mistakes. You know what I mean? We all have vases in our life that bumped out of our hands and they fell. And we're like, man, how did that happen? Well, how it happened is no longer relevant. Now it's about how are we going to pick up the pieces? So that grace for me was a great learning experience.

• 5:58Speaker 04

  Because once I began to experience His grace and understand what that meant and understand the piece of that, and then also what it did for me was so often when we are so used to success and we are addicted to achievement, we want our achievements to override the fact that we, especially as men, have feelings. And God was saying, look, I'm not here about your achievements. I'm here for your heart. And so my heart needed to accept that grace to be able to grow. And then even as a man, be able to stand on my two feet. And to be able to look at someone, anyone with a different lens. A lens of understanding, a lens of sympathy, empathy.

• 6:40Speaker 04

  Because so often we look at each other and sometimes we don't look at each other as people or as men. We look at each other as, okay, what do you do in life?

• 6:46Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 04

  You know, you size somebody up, you make a judgment call. But what grace does is it's the amazing leveler. Everyone is the same. And so for me, I needed that. I needed to learn what grace meant and then to be able to now offer it. I'm grateful for it. It was difficult, but I'm grateful for it.

• 7:00Fred Taylor?

  You talk about grace, it's tapping to faith a little bit.

• 7:04Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 7:05Fred Taylor?

  And understanding. You lost your father at a very young age.

• 7:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, nine years old.

• 7:08Fred Taylor?

  You know, I, my grandmother taught me, don't question God. You know, but at that age, I would have to wonder, why us? Why, why me? Losing your, your father at such a young old, how did you continue to, you know, keep a strong faith in God himself and, and push forward?

• 7:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, you know, losing my father was traumatic. Um, you know, I was nine years old. Uh, he died of a heart attack when he was 36. Pretty much my entire life, he was an alcoholic. You know, in, in and out of the house. I mean, there were some times he would go missing for years. We didn't know where he was. And my mother did the best she could to raise me and my brothers. Uh, as best she could as a single mother and then bringing in the help of my grandmother and my grandmother's seven sisters. And so I'll never forget before my father died. So he had had a heart attack at 33. And then, you know, we saw him and he said like he was gonna be fine. And then he had another heart attack between 33 and 36. Before he passed away, we went to the hospital, me and my brothers to visit him. And, you know, he's in the hospital bed and he sits up.

• 8:10Speaker 04

  And he apologizes to us. And just says, I'm so sorry that I put you all in this position. I'm sorry I haven't been there. You know, but I promise you, I'm gonna get my life back together. I'm coming back to church and I'm, I'm coming back. I want, I want y'all back. I want my family back. And, you know, we all, you know, hugged and embraced and cried. And then the next time I saw him was in the morgue at the hospital. So as a nine-year-old kid, you know, we get, we're at home. And we're about to go visit him because at the point, at this point in time, he's alive, but then the phone rings. And my mother gets the call and then she just yells. And even as a nine-year-old kid, I was sitting on the couch reading this poetry book called When the Sidewalk Ends by Shel Silverstein.

• 8:52Speaker 04

  And my mother screams and she grabs us, we get in the car, we drive to the hospital in Oakland, but before that we picked up one of my aunts. We go to the hospital, she leaves us in the lobby with one of my aunts and then she goes and we don't know where she's gone. So then about an hour later, she comes to me, comes to me and my brothers and says, "Come with me." So we follow her to the morgue at the hospital and my father is there laid out. And she says, "Kiss your father goodbye." Now, I don't know if y'all know what cold is, but if you have never touched a dead body, you don't know what cold really is. And so I'll never forget how cold it was to kiss him on his forehead and to say goodbye. And coming out of that, you know, I didn't want to go to the funeral.

• 9:35Speaker 04

  I didn't even know what to feel, I didn't even know how to process it. But they were like, "No, Devon, you need to go to the funeral." So I went to the funeral, but they didn't make me go to the burial. And then coming out of that, my mom didn't have money for, you know, therapy or anything like that, you know, we were on government assistance. And so what became therapy, to answer your question, is going to church and watching movies. You know, later, so my father died in February and then later that year, my uncle started his own church in Oakland, California, East Oakland. And the church was called Wings of Love, Mayor and Not the Ministries. And so that church was an answer to prayer. Because what happened was, we had a place to positively process what we were dealing

• 10:19Speaker 04

  with, you know, and being at church, it wasn't just going to church, you know, we were ushering and playing the drums and, you know, speaking and getting a chance to have activities that allowed us and allowed me to process what I was going through. And so ironically, through that, even though I understood the tragedy of it, you know, the church became a positive outlet for me. And that actually enhanced my faith. And then watching movies, you know, Back to the Future and Rocky and The Color Purple, I mean, that became my therapy. You know, I watched Rocky and I'm like, here's a man who thinks, he doesn't even want to win. If you watch that first Rocky, he don't even want to win, he just wants to go the distance. Because he wants to prove to himself that he's not a bum. And as a middle child, I related to that.

• 11:04Speaker 04

  I'm like, yo, like, I just want to prove to myself that I am something. And so it was my faith that really became an anchor in that, in those adolescent years.

• 11:13Channing Crowder?

  And as a, you know, very religious man, a preacher, and you've been, like you talking about, you going to nine years old at church every day. Is, is, are like pastors and preachers, are they ordained? Are you like born or built? Because I wasn't forced to go, I say forced, but I didn't, my family wasn't a church family.

• 11:31Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 11:32Channing Crowder?

  So even to this day, like, I'm not a church, a church guy. I'm very spiritual, believe in God, and you know, my dad passed recently. I was actually there when, when everything flatlined.

• 11:41Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 11:41Channing Crowder?

  Beep, and then everybody's kind of looking around the room like, oh damn, Randy. You know what I'm saying? We talked about on the show. Like, do you think you were built into that? Do you think you were born that way?

• 11:50Speaker 04

  Well, well, I think in terms of just being faith and being Christian, you know, I think it was something that, you know, even as a young kid going to church, something I really connected to. And then as I got older to better understand it, it wasn't just because I was taught it. I was like, no, this is actually helping my life become better. You know, understanding Christ's, Christ's love and accepting Christ as my Savior. You know, even as a teenager, that, that made me feel a sense of identity and a sense of strength. Now, as it relates to ministry, you know, I do believe that anyone that ministers, preachers, pastors, needs to be called, you know. Now, so what was interesting in my story is that, you know, I started preaching when I was 16 years old, not because I even wanted to. Going back to the church and my uncle started.

• 12:32Speaker 04

  We were doing youth day, and the first youth day, my older brother spoke. And so the second youth day, they were like, okay, Devon, it's your turn. And I'm like, what? Y'all want me to preach? So I was like, fine. And at that time, Les Brown, who's just one of my, you know, one of the greatest motivational speakers ever, he had released a book called Live Your Dreams. And I probably quoted more from the book than I did from scripture for that first sermon, okay? And so that went so well, people just kept telling me, oh, you need to preach, you need to preach, you need to preach. And I said, okay, this is fine. I enjoy doing it. I said, but I want to be very clear, y'all, I'm not going into ministry. I'm going to Hollywood. I'm going to go make movies. And so the church was like, people were like, well, you can't go to Hollywood. You're gonna lose your faith. I'm like, well, y'all gonna have to pray for me because I'm going. So the call to minister and to preach has always been there.

• 13:17Speaker 04

  But as it relates to professionally, it's always been about the movies. That's what I've been pursuing since I was 18 years old. And the interesting thing is like, you know, in our culture, there's a lack of nuance. Right? So it's like people see me preaching and they immediately think, oh, he's a pastor. I'm like, well, no, no, no, no, uh-uh, because you know, my younger brother is a pastor. He took over the Wings of Love Church and is now called Incredible Church, right there in Oakland, right off of Lake Merritt. And his job day to day is to nurture that congregation, to be responsible, you know, to that local congregation. That's what a pastor, you know, is and does. You know, a preacher is like a guest podcast host. You know, you come in here, it's like, I can host for y'all, but at the end of the day, I don't have any responsibility to the show.

• 14:00Speaker 04

  So as a preacher, I'm grateful for the opportunities to deliver the word when God opens up those invitations. But I really respect and revere those that pastor as a profession. Because it is very difficult and I do believe you have to be called.

• 14:13Ryan Clark?

  I love the fact that you just made that distinction between preacher and pastor. Because I believe especially in our communities, there is no separation between those two. There was never any conversations that were had, this is what one is as opposed to the other. And when you are spoken of or if you are introduced, it's going to be Devon Franklin, it's going to be actor, it's going to be producer. It's going to be entrepreneur. There are all these other things that are facets of you that I don't think get as much spotlight. Because that's the one everyone pays attention to. Right? And then paying attention to that, you know, I really want to ask you like, there's this level of perfection

• 14:56Ryan Clark?

  that Christianity in our community feels like it dictates, right? Like when, when you turn your life over to Christ, or when people talk about church folk, it's like, oh, they want you to act this way. They want you to be this way. And when you're living your life publicly as you are, people are expecting a certain thing from you. They want to see a certain life lived from you. How difficult is it to?

• 15:20Ryan Clark?

  Show your human side, right? The human pieces of you when everybody is expecting this level of perfectionalism.

• 15:28Speaker 04

  You know, I mean, this has been part of the journey, right? And part of the journey is being a Christian, following Christ is a personal commitment, right? It's a lifestyle for each individual that chooses to make that choice. And so for me, it's like, okay, that's my commitment, right? It's been my commitment for the time I was young. And so part of the commitment is like, okay, well, at 18 years old, I'm gonna go to Hollywood. And I'm gonna see if God really wants me in this business. So part of the way that I wanted to see if God wanted me in this business, 18 years old, like going for an internship interview at a company that manages Will Smith. And at the time, they managed Jada and Babyface and all the hot talent at the time.

• 16:13Speaker 04

  And at the end of the interview, they say, is there anything else you want me to know? And I say, hey, you know, um, yeah, I observe the Sabbath. So if taking this internship would require me to work on the Sabbath, I'm not gonna take it. So what I was doing, even before I got my foot in the door of Hollywood, was to say, "God, are you in this?" And then they said, "No problem, we'll work around that." And so once I got that internship, you know, people knew about my faith, right? But it wasn't so much for me. It's like, people know what I say, but it's like, can they see it in the work? And so for me, faith was service. So that's what I did. I served, I served, I served. So as I went from being an intern to being an assistant, to ultimately being an executive,

• 16:54Speaker 04

  and then becoming a producer, as my commitment to service and tell stories and use Hollywood as a medium for good, as that service increased, then what happened? More notoriety. And then the more people know you, right? And the more they know of you, that's a blessing, but that also has some challenges. You know, I'll never forget, T D Jakes was like, you know, the spotlight that illuminates also burns. And so, what, to answer your question, it was like, okay, as I just followed the path of success, which was, you know, me making movies and and understanding how to use Hollywood in a positive way. And then as that success grew and as I became an author and started writing books and touring and all the things.

• 17:38Speaker 04

  And then as the notoriety grew, then I had to deal with something that at first, initially, I didn't know how to deal with, which is people's opinions of what, you know, how I'm supposed to live and what I'm supposed to do and what I'm supposed to look like, what I'm supposed to say. And then, here was the dilemma. And I think anyone in the public eye, who, you know, is navigating their faith, may have faced a similar dilemma, which is, who is gonna be my God? And are the people my God? Or is God my God? And if I follow God and I allow Him to guide my steps, and some people still don't get it, then I must offer grace and prayers,

• 18:22Speaker 04

  but I have to stay intentional about who He's called me to be. So I had to learn that balance of like, there are, none of us, we all are aspiring, you know, to be the better versions of ourselves. That's what I love about your show. You have conversations and you get underneath the hood. Why? Because at the end of the day, anybody listening to these conversations will take something that will, I believe, will improve how they think about themselves or how they move in life, which is really great. But here's the thing, doing that, right? Making that choice is a personal choice and commitment because there are some that listen to it and don't get it. And so I personally had to make the choice, "God, I'm gonna follow You. I'm gonna live for You. I'm gonna do the best I can to be as obedient as I can.

• 19:07Speaker 04

  And I also understand that there are some people that may not get it." I mean, Jesus says, "Listen, what they've done to Me, they're gonna do to you." You know, so when you look at Him, here was a man that was nothing about, he was only about love, only trying to help people. And look at what happened and those that did not get it. And so, I had to alleviate myself from the burden of whatever the perception of perfection is per se. But more so than that, people's opinions about how, you know, I'm supposed to live. Because the thing, the beautiful thing about, you know, careers, especially, you know, being a man of faith, is that it's gonna look differently with everybody. And when we go back to that grace question, that's where I just...

• 19:48Speaker 04

  My prayer is that there can be more grace in the culture for each other and for different walks of life. And where I am in my journey is different than where you are in your journey and where you are in your journey and where you are in your journey. And so a lot of times people are trying to critique someone when they're on the first lap. You might be on lap 10. So for what you're doing, God is saying, I'm gonna do something different. But this person you're critiquing is on lap 1. Remember when you were on lap 1? Yeah. Remember how you stumbled on your first lap? And you had to learn how to run this thing called life? And so I had to work on like saying, hey, I'm gonna do my best to be a great representative of Jesus Christ in all that I do.

• 20:31Speaker 04

  And I'm also gonna understand that there are gonna be some people that will not get it. But what I will not do is treat them less than being children of God. I will offer grace, I will offer space, and I will say, hey, I pray that eventually you will get it. But what I do know is that the people that I'm touching in a positive way and those that don't even know who God is, that to me is what keeps me going. Because I do feel the sense of obedience and the sense of God continuing to open the doors that He wants me to go through.

• 21:01Speaker 05

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• 21:31Channing Crowder?

  Like RC said, we knew you were coming on, you lucked, and I didn't know your filmography, all the stuff you did. And I'm like, damn, or dang.

• 21:40Channing Crowder?

  Hey, he you.

• 21:43Channing Crowder?

  But even to that point, Heaven is Real, Miracles from Heaven, Star, like all those Pursuit of Happiness, like they're very positive, faithful movies.

• 21:54Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 21:54Channing Crowder?

  But like you said, in Hollywood, how much did you have to sacrifice for your faith and your career? Because you can't do Boogie Nights, you can't do Pulp Fiction.

• 22:02Speaker 04

  Right.

• 22:03Channing Crowder?

  You can't, you know what I'm saying? Like there's movies like that I can just think of where you can't attach your name to that movie because of your faith.

• 22:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, I mean, it was, it was an organic process. Meaning like when I came to Hollywood, you know, my goal was like, I wanted to do for others what Hollywood did for me. Which was, you know, in the light of my father's death, it was Hollywood that was my therapy along with church. And so I was like, yo, I want to go to Hollywood with the express purpose that I want to use it as a medium to touch people and to help people. And so that was always the goal. But initially, I didn't necessarily know what that looked like. And so once, once I was given the opportunity to become an executive at Sony Pictures, this was, you know, man, way back in the day. The first movie that I worked on was Pursuit of Happiness. Now, now here's the, here's the irony of all this, real quick, right?

• 22:54Speaker 04

  Which is, so I started as an intern for the management company that managed Will. And then my junior and senior year of going to USC, Will started his own company called Overbrook Entertainment. I interned there junior, senior year, I graduated, I become an assistant at his company. Two years into being an assistant, I realized that I've kind of hit a ceiling, there's no room for growth. So I quit, right? And people are like, what are you doing? Do you have a job? I said, no. They were like, you're committing career suicide. I said, listen, I can't tell you faith works if I'm afraid to try it. So I quit. First day of unemployment, true story. I get offered a job at Tracy Edmonds and Babyface's production company when they had Edmonds Entertainment back in the day. First day of unemployment, I get a job in the development department. I'm there for about a year and a half and then MGM calls.

• 23:38Speaker 04

  MGM had just released the first Barbershop movie, it was super successful. And they wanted a young executive of color to be a part of the team. So I go in, I interview, I get the job. I'm there for six months and they put the, the company on the selling block. So, you know, everybody's about to get paid out and lose their job. But at the 11th hour, Sony Pictures steps in to buy MGM with some equity investors. Before I'm about to lose my job and go back home and be unemployed, the chairman of Sony says to me, gives me a message, "Do not look for a job. You have one when the deal closes." Deal closes, only two executives from MGM made the transition to Sony Pictures. It was me and one senior executive. I get there and the irony is Sony at the time was funding Will's company.

• 24:23Speaker 04

  So they put me on as an executive for Pursuit of Happiness. I'll never forget when I saw Will, he was like, "Oh, so you a suit now." You know what I mean? Yeah, I said, "Yeah, man, now you gotta listen to my notes." But what I love about that, that is part of the story, is that so often, you know, you think that stepping out on faith or you think that following what you feel in the absence of what you see is wrong, but that's when things start to happen. And if I had never had the courage to quit Will's company, I would have never been in a position where then I could be an executive to not only, you know, work on his movies, but to help make a contribution. So on Pursuit of Happiness, saw the film. You know, we worked on the script. I went to set a couple of times. But I didn't know it was gonna be as emotional as it was until the producers showed us the first cut.

• 25:06Speaker 04

  You know, when they showed us the first cut, we were in the screening room crying, okay? So after that, I said, "Wait a minute, two things." One, the message of faith in this movie is impacting me as a man of faith. And two, Will and his producing partner, James Lasseter, have done so much for my career. How can I use this movie to make a contribution? And what dawned on me was, I know something that nobody else knows. I know the church. So as a creative executive, I put together a 40-page marketing campaign on how to take the message of faith in Pursuit of Happiness to the world of the church. And got Will to buy in and the chairman to buy in and, you know, got Bishop Jakes involved.

• 25:49Speaker 04

  And I took Will to his Mega Fest, you know, conference that year. And long story short, Pursuit of Happiness was a massive success. It did almost the same domestically as the James Bond Casino Royale movie. Why is all that relevant to the question? Because what that did was it showed, oh, Faith can win. That not only faith is good for me, but it's good for the bottom line because I could see something others couldn't see. And so that opened up the pathway for me to be able to do the movies that I felt I really could contribute to, you know, whether it be The Karate Kid or Jumping the Broom or Captain Phillips or... Heaven is for real. And so, the decision to focus on those films isn't restrictive because it's my passion.

• 26:34Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 26:35Speaker 04

  It's like back when I was a kid, watching Rocky and Back to the Future. It inspired me. And so, I'm like, yo, I want to make movies that inspire people. There are other people that are called to do other types of films. Great, but this is what I'm called to do. And this is what I've been an expert in and been working at for 30 years. So now, to be able to tell these stories, it doesn't feel limiting. It feels like I'm right where I need to be because there's nobody better on planet Earth that can tell these stories the way that I do.

• 27:06Ryan Clark?

  What place did, because you mentioned Will a few times in what you've said. When Will gave you the example of how I used to walk through life, you know?

• 27:17Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:18Ryan Clark?

  The Superman pose and then prostrated on his face as in this is how I go through life. Now, seeing a man who's so successful, so powerful, who has done as much as Will Smith is, surrendering in that way in front of you, a man of faith. What did that visual do to you when you saw Will Smith in his trailer?

• 27:38Speaker 04

  Man, listen, I mean, it touched me so deeply. Why? Because for me, you know, and I talk about this, it's like, you know, one of the ways to, when you go through tragedy, you know, you're like, how do I never feel this pain again? So then, for me, my coping mechanism was achievement. Whether it be getting good grades in school, you know, being the president of the student body, like, you know, I mean, achieving. I was voted most likely to succeed in high school, right? So it was about achievement, achievement. And then what happens is, instead of having a stride...

• 28:19Speaker 04

  You strive, I strive. So that striving energy is like, I gotta get from one achievement to the next, to the next, to the next. And what gets lost is the room for God. So when he talked about surrendering, it just ministered to me because it was like, man, right, yeah, you know what, here I am, just trying to, you know, have all these successes, which is fine, but it's like, am I fully surrendered to God's will and what he wants from me at any given moment? And so it wasn't that I didn't know it, it wasn't that it was the first time that I heard it, but you know how it is, like sometimes when you need a message the most, you get it.

• 29:00Speaker 04

  And so, you know, I mean, Will has been a mentor and a friend since the time that we met. And so, you know, him kind of offering me that as a way to just help me be more at ease. Hey, everything, it's all gonna be fine. Just surrender to the process. Even if you gotta cry, surrender. Even if you shout, surrender. Even if you don't understand, surrender. And as I have really practiced that, my whole world is opened up. Because then it's like, I'm not as stressed out about any of it. It's like, okay, cool, this is what I'm doing today? Great, this is what I need to do? Okay, great, well, this is what they saying about that? Okay, alright. It just gives me more of an ease, you know? If that makes sense.

• 29:44Fred Taylor?

  Is Hollywood as bad as people perceive it to be?

• 29:47Speaker 04

  You know, listen, I can only speak from my experience in Hollywood. And I've been in Hollywood since I was 18 years old. And it has been a place where I've been able to express my faith, express my creativity, express myself, been able to tell stories and get stories made and produced that otherwise would have never happened. And so it is a difficult business, meaning like, it's not easy. In any regard, like it's it's probably one of the most difficult businesses that you can be in just because the level of competition, the level of money involved. You know, it's like any given film is gonna be tens of millions of dollars of an investment. And with that comes a lot of pressure. And and also the Hollywood is an apprenticeship business. You learn by doing.

• 30:33Speaker 04

  And so my ability to produce films right now is because I've been specializing as an apprentice in this for so long. And so it is difficult, but I think everybody has a different experience with it. You know, I think for me, I was blessed to have intentionality to begin with. This is why I'm here. This is what I want. This is what I'm doing. And I have not veered. That has been my main mission, like, like even with projects that I I choose to do or not do. It's like, yo, if if it can't touch people, if it can't inspire people, I'm not gonna do it. It's just, and and that's just, and that's not for me to do. That's not my judgment on if somebody else should do it, that's on them. But for me, you know, it's it's been a, it's been an industry that has been very good to me, you know.

• 31:17Speaker 04

  And and again, I know every people have different experiences with it and I respect that, but.

• 31:21Fred Taylor?

  RC asks about public perception, like coming up, your foundation in the church, being raised by many women, right?

• 31:32Fred Taylor?

  They can probably look at, you know, your path and your dream, I'm sure you share with them. Being in Hollywood at eighteen, how were you able to convince your mother and your aunts and your great grandmother and the church people that? I'm going to Hollywood.

• 31:47Speaker 04

  Right.

• 31:47Fred Taylor?

  And it's okay, it's gonna be okay.

• 31:50Speaker 04

  Right, well, man, listen, I'll be honest with you, there there was no convincing. Meaning, it wasn't that my mom, you know, or my aunts were necessarily against it. It's just that they were just were afraid, they were afraid.

• 32:02Fred Taylor?

  Of course.

• 32:02Speaker 04

  They were afraid, they were scared for their son. They were scared for their son that they love and that they believe in. You know, can he, is he gonna go to an industry and get swallowed up? You know, I'm kinda similar the way that I was then and I am now, like, very headstrong. You know what I mean? So, I'll be honest, once I made the decision that this is what I was gonna do, I wasn't trying to convince them. I just wasn't. I was like, alright, y'all, if you get it, you get it, and if you don't, that's okay, but I'm going. Because especially as a teenager, once they saw that I could preach, they really wanted me to go into ministry. They really wanted me to go open the church and take over. And I'm saying, y'all, I, I love y'all, that's not me. I'm not, that's not, that's not what God's calling me to do. God is calling me to Hollywood. And so, I didn't convince them. Right? I didn't, I didn't, I never tried.

• 32:46Speaker 04

  Because I think sometimes in life, uh, we spend too much energy trying to get people to see something they're never gonna see until we do it. Period. And that, and I was like, it's okay, you guys, just pray for me. Pray for me. And then, what's crazy is, as I've been in the business and, and big, become the success that I prayed that I would be, would become, then they're like, oh, right, yeah, we, yeah, we do it, we do it. We, man, we're in your corner, you know? And it's cool, and it's cool, it's part of the process. But I always tell people, don't let anyone else direct your story.

• 33:18Ryan Clark?

  I got it, okay. So, this is normally a chanting question, but, uh, it's a question I really would like to know here. You know, there's this thing going around, right? People wanna say Sierra's prayer. Right? Cause they're like, Sierra got Russell Wilson, right? Whatever prayer she said, that worked. Uh, I'm sure there's some guys that's in these dating streets, they gonna wanna say your prayer, right? Cause I don't think, uh, your wife Maria?

• 33:42Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 33:42Ryan Clark?

  Right? I don't feel like she was on Christian mingle.

• 33:46Speaker 04

  No.

• 33:46Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying? I don't, you know, you know, and, and so...

• 33:51Speaker 04

  She was not on Christian mingle.

• 33:52Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, so I'm just, I'm just wondering, when you got on them dating app, I know you said you prayed over the dating app. Lord, please allow, Lord, please allow my swipe to be the swipe that I need that finds me a life partner.

• 34:04Speaker 04

  The Lord is good.

• 34:06Ryan Clark?

  The, the God, God is good, Jesus! Right? Uh, when you were speaking in tongues over your dating app, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of brothers out here who are in the church, you know what I'm saying, who love the Lord, that would love to figure out what prayer you are saying. Because it's working.

• 34:23Speaker 04

  Thank you. Yes, listen, I love my wife so much. Maria is like an answer to prayer. I mean, she's just the essence of love. I mean, oh, my goodness. It's like a love I've just never experienced. So the answer to the question is, and I think this is important, right? So it's like, when I was in my season of single and trying to figure out like, okay, you know, how was I gonna navigate those dating streets? The number one thing that I had to do is to keep my heart open to love.

• 34:59Speaker 04

  Not get cynical about it, not like get overly protective. Like, no, I am opening my heart to love. And I think that as men, it's like, yo, we'll open our heart to success. But you want me to open my heart to love? Nah, nah, bro, I ain't doing that. But for me, I'm like, no, no, no. Love is the most powerful force in the universe. God is love. So if I close my heart to love, I close my heart to God. No, I'm gonna keep it open. So in terms of dating, right? I dated more with like, okay, God, you're gonna guide me through this process. And trust me, it was a process, okay? But when it came to Maria, the thing about Maria, which was just, it was all so divine, I didn't have anything to do with it.

• 35:41Speaker 04

  Meaning, a mutual friend of ours hit me up and he was like, he sent me her IG profile. And he was like, hey, you know, what do you think of her? And I'm like, what do I think of her? She's amazing. He was like, well, look, man, I think y'all will really hit it off. So he said, listen, but I'm telling you, you got, you need to move, okay? You need to move quickly, all right? She ain't the type of one that's gonna stay single long. And so our first date was a hike over in one of the hikes over here in LA. And we, it was supposed to be like an hour, and it turned into four. And as we were talking, you know, I was like, oh my goodness. I just knew in that moment, this is my wife. I'm talking to her.

• 36:25Speaker 04

  So I then had to just be open with the process to allow that to unfold. But my, my answer to your question is so often when we go out looking for something, we enhance the absence of it. So whatever we tend to look for evades us. So for me, when Maria and I met, I wasn't looking for love, I was just open to receiving.

• 36:47Ryan Clark?

  But you ain't think a eight-minute voice note was gonna turn her on?

• 36:50Speaker 04

  Well, see, now you're getting the handle of the story.

• 36:52Ryan Clark?

  No, I don't listen to, I don't listen to a 20-second voice note. You send me a voice note that I can't press the little button and it translate? And it's like four lines? I'm not listening to that. So it's, I swear to God, DeFray, you'd have said that, though. We could have been in the word, I could have been like, hey man, I need a word, man. I'm struggling with my faith. And had you sent me an eight-minute voice note, I'd be like, he don't want me to find God.

• 37:15Speaker 04

  Bro, bro, listen, listen, listen. The eight, the eight-minute voice note, okay? Came at a very pivotal and important time. You know, again, like, and this is, and this is to me where, you know, it's like the, the beauty and the, and the blessing of being connected to God is that if we're open, we will get downloads from Him that then will guide what we do. So when it came to Maria, I was like, in that moment, I was like, okay, God, I feel like there are some things you want me to express to her. You want me to express it to her in a way that is comfortable for her? So that she can take it in and digest it on her time.

• 37:56Speaker 04

  And so I just opened up the phone and I just started speaking what I felt God was telling me to tell her. And it just so happened to be eight minutes. And I sent it to her and I said, okay, Lord, I'm, I'm gonna leave it alone. And to my surprise and also my confirmation, she listened to it and said that some of the very things she had been praying about are things that I addressed in, in the voice note. This is one take? One take. One take? One take.

• 38:23Ryan Clark?

  God was his wingman.

• 38:26Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 38:27Speaker 04

  Don't get no better wingman.

• 38:28Channing Crowder?

  Beautiful mountains in Psalm seventeen and five.

• 38:33Channing Crowder?

  That's what it is.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  Listen, I'm just telling you what happened, okay? I'm just saying, that's what happened, alright?

• 38:41Channing Crowder?

  It's crazy, like, I did it unknowingly earlier in the interview, where they cuss, or people know you're a man of faith, and I cuss, and I'm like, oh, no, no, sorry, sorry. I do it all the time with my pastor down in Florida, Pastor David at Church by the Glades. We go fishing together.

• 38:55Speaker 04

  Oh, dope.

• 38:56Channing Crowder?

  Anyway, I'm out there fishing, I miss a fish, and I cuss, I'm, oh, my bad, bro. He'd be like, stop saying my bad.

• 39:01Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 39:02Channing Crowder?

  Do people, because you work with, obviously, people of not faith.

• 39:06Speaker 04

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 39:07Channing Crowder?

  Do they know that you're a man of faith, and they kind of shuffle around you a little bit? Because I just shuffled.

• 39:14Speaker 04

  Well, you know what? I think, I think, you know, going to what you were saying earlier, you know, Ryan, I think that people, it's interesting, because it's like, in Hollywood, people know what I do. They know that I am a producer, they know that I've been creating content for a while. So it's, it's, it's that, normally, they don't. You know, it's like, when people don't know that, and they only know me through the lens of preaching, then they sometimes are that way. But overall, it's like, yo, whenever I do a project with someone, or we get a chance to work together, you know, I just work with meth, and meth, meth and man on, on relationship goals, and that was amazing, and so there's always a respect. But there's no, there's not walking on eggshells. And then, once they get to know me, they're like, oh, bet. Like, you know, there is no judgment, there's nothing but love, and, and everybody's got to feel comfortable being who they are.

• 39:59Speaker 04

  I mean, that's, I feel comfortable, like, yo, I'm not, I'm not here to judge nobody. I'm here to love, I'm here to be who God called me to be. And then also, let's come together to do something greater than each of us, which is to tell a story that will be eternal, and that can hopefully help people.

• 40:13Speaker 00

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• 40:43Fred Taylor?

  What keeps you confident in your creative? You know, when you're pitching or having a green lighter project? And people, others might see it as risky. What keeps you, you know, moving forward in it?

• 40:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, man, you know, it's, man, I'm, I just feel like, because I know. You know what I mean? It's a knowing, you know what I mean? Like, my brother, Torrey Roberts, is getting ready to release a book called Knowing in April. And it's like, there's a knowing that you, that I have, that it's like, no, this is the movie. You know, like, when I, I have a deal with Netflix and Tyler Perry to make films. And so the first film he did was Ruth and Boaz. And I had done a sermon series on Ruth and Boaz. And I was like, oh, wait a minute, I think this could be a movie. Because I don't, there hasn't been a, to my knowledge, there hadn't been a modern version of that story. And so, there was just a knowing. This is the story, I know how to do it. And when I talked to Netflix about it, I was like, yeah, this is what it's gonna be. And this is how we're gonna do it. And this is how it's gonna be great.

• 41:40Speaker 04

  And so, that knowing comes through in passion, but also because I have been in the business. I know how to address people's potential concerns.

• 41:49Fred Taylor?

  Got it.

• 41:50Speaker 04

  So that when they are saying yes, and they're saying, okay, we're gonna green light your movie. They're doing it because they're confident in my knowing and my know-how. So any project that I do, Ruth and Boaz, Relationship Goals, the next one that I have with Taraji. Like, it's, it's all, it all comes from a knowing and then a know-how. That I know how to do this movie better than anybody else. And some of that comes from just how, you just gotta have the confidence, man. Because like, if you're making a movie, like I said, it's tens of millions of dollars. And if I'm not sure, and I'm the producer of the movie, I'm the one that's the driving force. If I'm not sure, then they're gonna be like, wait a minute, wait, if you ain't sure, we ain't gonna get it. But if I'm sure about something, that passion, that knowing, that comes through in everything.

• 42:35Speaker 04

  And then it becomes infectious, because then everybody gets on board. Like, oh, shoot, okay, yeah, wait, you want me to read the script? Great, yeah, okay, you know, when I did Relationship Goals, Kelly Rowland read the script in 24 hours. Boom, I'm in, this is great. Methan Man came in, chemistry read, that was great. Like, the knowing and the passion becomes the thing that begins to bring it all together. So that's, that's where it comes from.

• 42:55Fred Taylor?

  Like, you see...

• 42:56Channing Crowder?

  Your art, you see, you see all that stuff differently. You see camera angles, you see, you know what I'm saying, you see it different. And I, I wanna know the new move, the new age of movie, the streaming services, and they just pump movies out so fast now. There's a new movie on Netflix every damn day.

• 43:13Speaker 04

  Right.

• 43:13Channing Crowder?

  But the movies be garbage most of the time. The movie be a minute, an hour and 12 minutes. I mean, that's not a movie, that's an episode. But how, how did this, the streaming services that, every, Apple, you know, all the streaming services, how did that change what you do?

• 43:28Speaker 04

  That's a great question, in that most of my, you know, when I came up in the business to learn how to make movies, the streaming didn't exist. So we were always making movie for the theatrical experience. And so the difference between the theatrical experience and the streaming experience is that if, you know, a family or a couple decides, hey, we're gonna go to the theater, we're gonna, you know, pay the money for parking, we're gonna pay for concessions, we're gonna pay for the ticket. Usually, unless there's something just very offensive in the movie, even if they don't like the film, they're gonna sit there and finish it. Whereas with streaming, if they don't like the movie in the first 90 seconds, they're gonna turn it off. So the difference is not so much changing the stories that I tell,

• 44:11Speaker 04

  but understanding that the hooks at the beginning have to be stronger. Like you gotta hook your audience, you gotta bring them in, and pacing. You know, when you have a theatrical film, you can, you know, you can ease up a little bit on the pace. But in my experience with making movies for streamers, you know, there is a, there is a focus on, okay, how do we make sure the pace is good? So once we have the viewer, we retain the viewer and they finish it. So it's just been a little bit of a modification, but it hasn't fundamentally changed how I tell stories and the stories that I tell.

• 44:41Channing Crowder?

  Ben Affleck and Matt Damon had that conversation about the recent movie they released on Netflix as well, about how people want you to state the storyline early so people could know, and different things, how they had to change the way they looked at movies as well. Especially with them, when you had, you know, Good Will Hunting and different things like that. My question is, cuz...

• 45:01Ryan Clark?

  Channing makes fun of me often, often. Publicly, very publicly, unless I'm pissed off.

• 45:06Speaker 04

  Very publicly.

• 45:07Ryan Clark?

  I spell curse words a lot on this show.

• 45:10Speaker 04

  Spell them, why don't you say them?

• 45:12Ryan Clark?

  Because I spent probably, like, my kids didn't hear me curse until I retired.

• 45:16Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 45:17Ryan Clark?

  Right, I just didn't curse a lot, you know? And it was something I, it was something I was intentional about. And so now that I've gotten in the real world a little bit more and people get on my nerves, I'll give you one every now and then. But normally, if I'm just trying to talk and I think it gets some emphasis, I spell. It's stupid, but it happens, right?

• 45:32Speaker 04

  No, I do know.

• 45:34Channing Crowder?

  Hey, I'll whoop his ass.

• 45:36Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 45:36Speaker 06

  What you just said, bro?

• 45:40Speaker 04

  It's like, wait, that guy actually made put those together, oh, okay.

• 45:44Ryan Clark?

  But, you know, recently, even you was like, and I'll give it to him. Even you said, "What the?"

• 45:51Speaker 04

  Right.

• 45:51Ryan Clark?

  It takes a lot, it takes a lot for me to get there, to, to go through enough, right? Like, the first thing, I'm like, oh, that's gonna be alright. Second thing, I'm like, oh, that's cool, I can handle that. But if I get to that point, that means that life and, and God is taking me through something to build me to something else. But I'm at the point of like, hey, man, you need to give me the answer, though, of what this gonna be. What was the final "what the f**k" moment for you?

• 46:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, so in my audiobook, I have an audiobook out right now called Be True. And it's, it's all, that's where that came from, you know? I did a one-man show in New York last summer, and this audiobook is the audio recording of that one-man show. And in the one-man show, you know, I'm very clear at the beginning, I said, "Hey, y'all, this ain't, this ain't no sermon, okay? You know what I mean? This is me as a man, and I'm an artist, and I'm sensitive about my stuff." So, in the one-man show, you know, I was articulating my journey of manhood, you know? And as my life started to, you know, get to a place where I was like, "Man, what, what is going on?" I was just honest. I would say, "Y'all, listen, I'm not gonna sit up here and, you know, try to be religious with you, I'm gonna be honest with you."

• 46:59Speaker 04

  In this moment, those were the three words that came to me, like, "How did I get here?" And so what prompted that was me just sitting there, you know? And this time, at this point, I was living in a hotel, you know, Sunset Boulevard, overlooking Sunset Boulevard. And I talk about this in the one-man show, you know? As I sit there and I'm overlooking the boulevard and I'm, I'm there by myself and... You know, I'm like, man, how did, how did I, Lord, what happened? I thought I did everything right. I thought I did everything that I was supposed to do, that, you know, that people said I should do. And here I am, you know, alone, by myself, having to put the pieces of my life together. And so it was just a transparent, honest reaction in that moment.

• 47:42Speaker 04

  And when I shared that and be true, I was okay with sharing it because, going back to your question earlier, it's like, life can be hard. And whether you are a person of faith or not, whether you're a Christian or not, you know, this Bible says rain falls on the just and the unjust. And so often, when the rain falls on us and we consider ourselves just, we don't tell anybody how we felt about the rain. It's, it's not, no, when the rain falls, you are not always like, thank God. No, before you get to a place of thank God, sometimes you get to a place of like, Lord, how did this happen? How did this happen when I did everything I thought we were supposed to do? But then, after having a moment of humanity and a moment of flesh and saying, okay,

• 48:27Speaker 04

  you know, using those words, then I'm able to sit there. And I'm able to assess. And I'm able to process. And that, to me, is one of the greatest gifts in life I've ever been given. To process who I am, what I'm experiencing. So often, we're so quick to look at and point out someone else what their flaw is. Most of the time, my experience in that is because we are not willing to point our flaw. When I can look at myself and process, okay, well, here's what I did to contribute to where I am. Here are the lessons. Here's how I'm growing. Here's what I'm taking away from that.

• 49:08Speaker 04

  Then what happens is that ability to assess and then apply. Okay, here's what I've learned. Now let me apply it going forward. It is the fundamental tool of personal development and growth. And so, me having an honest moment, a transparent moment to admit, y'all, listen, when I was at my lowest low, these are the words that came to mind. Honestly, okay? Anybody been there before? Or am I the only one? You know what I'm saying?

• 49:36Channing Crowder?

  I don't curse.

• 49:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, okay, sure, right.

• 49:41Fred Taylor?

  I do want to ask you, did you narrate your audiobook?

• 49:46Speaker 04

  I did, it's me.

• 49:48Fred Taylor?

  I mean, but your audiobook?

• 49:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, I performed it, so when you hear the audio, it's all me. Me, from top to bottom.

• 49:55Fred Taylor?

  I was gonna suggest you, I mean, you narrate his audiobook that's soon to come out.

• 50:00Ryan Clark?

  So, no cursing?

• 50:01Fred Taylor?

  Can you imagine?

• 50:02Ryan Clark?

  If he wrote it and he had to say?

• 50:04Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. He's about to edit that out.

• 50:07Ryan Clark?

  He'd be like, he'd be in the car with your kids and the cursing come on, you look around, nobody's saying anything. Before, I know we got a big question to ask, before we get there, we have made it a very long time, I'm not sure, maybe like 45, 50 minutes, right? Without talking about your first marriage. And I'm not gonna ask you a question about that. That was how you were introduced to me. Right? And then, every interview I saw with you, at least the ones that I saw, that were aggregated, you were sitting with your ex-wife. And having those conversations. So, I never, and to my lack of knowledge, my lack of research, I never really said, who is this dude? I just never, you know, and I don't know what was going on in your home, or how you

• 50:50Ryan Clark?

  felt it, but I was like, I only saw you as that, even though I know you're so much more. That was how I knew you. With all that you accomplished, even before jumping the broom, why did you never just be like, hey, look, I done been on this movie, I done been on that movie, I done produced this, I'm an executive here? Because like, that's what I would do. Like, at some point, I would just go on a rant on my own social media, or something. Hell, you got cameras all the time, it was your company. You make the movies. At some point, I would've just been like, look, y'all gonna stop playing with my name, right? I have done all of this. And I understand the humility of knowing everything comes from God, but when you were

• 51:34Ryan Clark?

  in that marriage and everything was aggregated is that you're making good husband, or you're just this man of faith who's now married to her, how did you keep yourself from screaming out, but look at all I've done?

• 51:46Speaker 04

  That wasn't, that wasn't what my focus was. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just like, hey, you know what? It let the work speak for itself. To be quite honest with you, that was never a frustration. It was like, alright, this is where I am. This is what's going on. Let the work speak for itself. And so to now, you know, to have gone through all that and to be married again and, you know, being in an amazing marriage, have an incredible career. I think now, you know, I'm taking more of those opportunities. And thank you all for having me, you know, on your show. Because I value what you do. And I don't take the opportunity to be here lightly. Because what does it do? It just gives me an opportunity to really tell my story. Yeah. And so if anything, you know, now is like, oh, okay. People are not, are still not fully getting it.

• 52:31Speaker 04

  So let me do a better job telling my story. But not from a place of frustration or a place of anger or a place of, I'm gonna, you know, change how you think of me, but from a place of expression. You know, I'm a middle child with three boys. Like, I don't know if you've got any middle children, but middle children, like, one of our greatest things in life is, we need to express ourselves. We need a place, we need a space to be able to express how we feel. And for me, you know, as I've gotten older, I've valued that more. Like, oh, okay, I need to actually articulate more and tell more of my story. You know, so opportunities like this and in this season, really being able to articulate who I am, you know, all that I do. Why? Because one, I feel good about it.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  And two, I think that it's so easy in life to get stuck in a box. Even when that box is a successful box. But none of us are the boxes we put ourselves in. We're all more.

• 53:27Speaker 00

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• 53:57Speaker 04

  So for me, to tell my story and tell it in the fullness is not only cathartic for me, but I wanted to actually help others to say, "Yeah, you might be in this box, but don't let that box limit who you are because there's more in you." And so, you know, for me in this season and, you know, and having Maria by my side and us being able to build life together, that really helps me tremendously. You know, to be able to feel even more confident and more secure to tell my story. And again, not doing it, it's like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not trying to do it in like, "Let me brag," right? It's more about like, "No, y'all, y'all gotta get what's really going on." Like, this is what's really going on. And I'm grateful to have been staying the course, taking every step from unpaid intern

• 54:41Speaker 04

  to intern to assistant to junior executive, to senior executive, and then quitting being an executive to start my own company and taking the risk on myself and been running that company successfully for 10 years and produce, you know, all these movies and TV series and now acting and writing and doing all the things. I share that because someone else may be out there wondering, "How can you do this? How does it all work?" And if anything that I can say through my story will help someone say, "Oh, that's how you can do it." There was a young lady that came up to me recently and was saying that I was the reason why that she got into Hollywood because she heard part of my story and she said, "Well, if he's a Christian, he can do it, then I can do it." And she came up to me to thank me.

• 55:25Speaker 04

  And that's what even reminded me, I gotta keep telling my story because I have no idea how what I share and what I've been through can help people. That's also why I was transparent in my Be True audiobook with those words. Because I'm like, "This is part of my story." I'm not, I'm not trying to present you perfection. I'm trying to present you transparency and honesty as much as I can. And in that, here's what my journey looks like. And one last thing I'll say about it is that, so, one of the other reasons why I'm in this season really excited about telling my story is that we're in a season where, you know, this generation is trying to branch out before they've built up.

• 56:06Speaker 04

  Meaning, the only way that I could be here and be a legitimate actor, a New York Times bestselling author, to be, to do all the things I do, to be a producer, all the things, is because the trunk of my tree was focusing for decades on film production. That is what I learned, and as I built that tree, then the branches of acting and authoring and speaking, all, being on TV, all those branches came off of the tree. So often, you can't build a tree with just branches. You gotta have roots in something. So I also like to tell my story, especially for this younger generation, to say, "Listen, you are multi-talented and multifaceted.

• 56:49Speaker 04

  However, you need to figure out, of all the things I do, what's the thing that I do the best? And what's the thing that has the most momentum? And let me focus on that and use that as the tree for my career. And then, as I have stability, as I have success, then I start to branch out, and guess what? Those branches have something to hang on. If you're trying to branch out before you built the trunk, the branches are not gonna have anything to hang on."

• 57:16Ryan Clark?

  Sure, they ain't bragging if it's the truth.

• 57:20Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I'm just telling them, this is a fact, it's not a brag.

• 57:23Fred Taylor?

  Right, and even more so, I love how you put it when you say, "Your previous marriage was purposeful growth and not failure." But even more so, man to man, I think one of the hardest things to do in society is responding versus reacting. Taking the time to kind of step back and then come back and tell people who you are, and being able to share that. Which brings me to the question we always ask our guests. Your biggest pivot in life? That's that one moment you can look back on and say, "Because this happened to me or for me, I am who I am today."

• 57:56Speaker 04

  The biggest pivot in life is, you know, I'll take you back. Ten years ago, a little over ten years ago at this point. So I was Senior Vice President of Production at Sony Pictures Entertainment. I was in the division called Columbia Pictures, which is one of Hollywood's legendary studios. And I had done, as we talked about, Pursuit of Happiness, and worked on Twenty One, and Jumping the Broom, and all these movies. And so I had a film that was coming out that Easter called Heaven is For Real. And that was a film that I really championed internally. I made it for fourteen million dollars. And before the movie was released, there was a lot of question, is the movie gonna work? And there was skepticism within the company that it was gonna work.

• 58:41Speaker 04

  Long story short, the movie comes out Easter weekend, that weekend. And over Easter weekend, it ends up grossing almost thirty million dollars. So at the box office, it doubles its production budget. And two days after opening weekend, so over the weekend, the chairman at the time hit me up and was like, oh, my goodness, you're a genius, you saw what no one else could see. Like, we wanna promote you, do all these things. And so in that moment, when she reached out, I said, okay, I can take in these accolades, or I can set this moment up for a pivot. So in that moment, I text her back and said, hey, can I come see you? She's like, absolutely. So two days after opening weekend, I'm in her office.

• 59:22Speaker 04

  And she's like, this movie is gonna be one of the most profitable movies we've ever done. Ultimately, she's like, at that time, she said it's on a trajectory to make a hundred million dollars at the box office for a faith film. That had never happened before. And she's like, look, we wanna promote you, we wanna give you a raise and all these things. And right there is when God spoke to me and said, it's time to get your production company. So when I was twenty-two, when I graduated USC, I graduated with a degree in business with an emphasis in entrepreneurship. And I created a business plan for my production company when I was twenty-two. But the process did not take me directly to producing.

• 1:00:05Speaker 04

  The process took me to being an assistant, being a junior executive, and then, at this point in time, being a senior executive at Columbia Pictures. At this point, almost ten years. So God, in that moment when she said they wanted to promote me and all these things, he said, get your company. And I said, in my mind, I'm like, okay, well, if I ask her for my company, that means I'm gonna have to quit this one.

• 1:00:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. So, I had a, I had a choice. Do I pivot or do I not? Do I allow my fear to keep me in the job? Or do I allow my faith to accept the full pivot? So, in that moment, I said, "Thank you so much. I'm so glad and grateful that the movie is working and that you all want to do that." I said, "But, I'm quitting." And she said, "What?" She said, "No, I'm quitting." I said, "It's time for me to start my own company." The movies that I've been making, you know, are making y'all too much money that I can't participate in because I'm an executive. So, I'm quitting. I'm starting my company, my production company, and I want you to fund it. I want you to give me the production deal. And in that moment, she sat back and she was like, "Okay. Okay, but you can't negotiate with anyone else."

• 1:01:12Speaker 04

  I said, "I said, "I said, "That's fine as long as the deal is good." Now, watch this. We negotiate the deal. So, I, we finished the deal and then about a few weeks after finishing the, closing the deal, what my production company was gonna look like. Sony's computers got hacked. And all of this, these confidential emails got, got out. And as part of the, the collateral damage, that chairman ended up transitioning to a producing deal and was no longer the chairman of the company. Why do I share that? Because every pivot has a time clock on it. And if I was afraid to ask the question and to go get what I believe God was calling me to receive

• 1:01:55Speaker 04

  and have the boldness to say, "I want y'all to do it." If I had waited, if I equivocated, the window of opportunity would have closed. And so, by the time all that happened, I already was in my production deal. I already had the first movie that I was making, which is Miracles from Heaven with Jennifer Garner and Queen Latifah. Made that film. That film made seventy-five million worldwide. When did Breakthrough for Fox and Disney? When did Flamin' Hot for Hulu and, I mean, for Hulu, Disney, Disney Plus and, and Searchlight? Did The Star, the first, one of the first faith-based animated films with Kelly Clarkson and Oprah and Tyler, you know? And then recently, as we talked about, Ruth and Boaz and Relationship Goals and so many other things that are coming up.

• 1:02:37Speaker 04

  So, the pivot, though, was that moment of believing that I had the know-how, that I had the skill set, that I had the knowing that it was time to quit. Give up the comfort of a job, comfort of benefits, okay? And to invest in and believe in myself. And starting Devon Franklin Entertainment, you know, over 10 years ago, it is the thing that has unlocked all the things that I do. You know, I had started writing while I was an executive, but in terms of, you know, all the things that are happening, it all came from that pivot. And then the other micro pivot was that as I'm producing, a couple of years ago, I get a call, "Hey, do you want to be in this movie called Jesus Revolution?"

• 1:03:17Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Speaker 04

  I said, "You want me to act in it?" Like, yeah, there's a part in this movie, my boys who produced it for Lions Gate, they were like, "No, there's a part in here we think you're great for." And in that moment, I was about to say, "I'm not an actor." But I caught myself. And God said, "Why would you speak against when I could be speaking for you?" Because even though I didn't know I could act, someone's bringing me an opportunity, so let me at least see.

• 1:03:41Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 1:03:42Speaker 04

  So I go and I do the part and it goes well. Another movie opportunity comes and then Tyler hits me up, "Hey, man, I'm doing this new show for BET Plus called Divorce Sisters. There's a part here, you know, I'd love for you to play it." And I'm like, "Okay, bet, let's go." Right? So it's like, the main pivot was 10 years ago, but I practice pivoting all the time. Because I don't, I know what I know about who I am, but there's a lot I don't know. You know what you know right now about yourself, but there's more that you may need to know. Or that may want to get discovered, but without having the faith to try different things and fail, okay? Like, I didn't know I was gonna be able to act. I was like, "Yo, it could have been terrible, okay?"

• 1:04:25Speaker 04

  But I'd rather be on the other side of it, having had the experience than to have been afraid to pivot to begin with. You know, so that's a long answer to your question. But that's the question, that's the answer.

• 1:04:35Ryan Clark?

  I am, you talk about addiction to achievement, and you make it sound like a bad thing. I think I have that same addiction. Right? And things that I want to do well in.

• 1:04:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:49Ryan Clark?

  In anything I decide is gonna be a major priority or part of my life, I want to excel at it. I don't want to do it in a way that's halfway, right? In Be True, you talk about being a good boy and how I wanted to make good grades and I wanted to do all this stuff because I needed that validation. Through your work.

• 1:05:08Ryan Clark?

  And not even just about your faith, through your work and the movies you've been a part of, the lives you've touched, the things, the way you've impacted people. Has that longing of achievement, has that longing of being validated as a good boy gone away in any way, or are you content and sufficient in what you've accomplished?

• 1:05:27Speaker 04

  That addiction to achievement, it's not about framing achievement as a negative thing. It's not, because achievement's great, right? Like, you know, each of you are, the reason why you're here is because you are great, okay? You have specialized in a level of achievement that few have ever experienced on earth, and so here we are. So there's nothing wrong with achievement. The issue that I took with achievement that I was having is that I needed it to feel secure. I needed the achievement to be able to look in the mirror and like myself.

• 1:06:05Speaker 04

  That is when I framed it as an addiction. Because if I don't have the achievements, then I don't like me. And that is what, you know, over these past few years and even coming to that realization that I spoke about and that I speak about and be true. What happened for me was like, I had to realize like, yo, if I don't love who looks back at me in the mirror, then I will forever be a prisoner of everything good and bad that happens in my life. And for me, when I lived that way, I had no peace. I was stressed. I was perpetually frustrated, because if things don't work out,

• 1:06:48Speaker 04

  it's not about them not working out, it means that I'm not working out. It means that I'm not doing a good job. And so being raised, you know, to believe, okay, be a good boy, and that was fine, I get that. You know, when you're a kid, you know, discipline and hard work, those things were fine. But what I had to learn was, when I was growing up, being a good boy, if I wasn't a good boy, that means I would get in trouble, right? And so that was fine as it relates to a survival as a kid. But as we grow older, we have to mature, especially as men. And so I had to learn that, okay, that good boy served its purpose. But now, as a grown man... Right? It's not about whether you get in trouble or not get in trouble. It's about are you living the truest life possible?

• 1:07:33Speaker 04

  Are you living an honorable life? Are you living? Are you speaking your truth with respect and with love, but speaking it nonetheless? And so as I've navigated this journey, I've been able to put achievement in perspective. And so now all the achievements that happened, I'm so grateful for them, but I don't base my self-worth in them. Yeah. And that was the biggest thing that needed to change because if we are all doing something, the, the, the ability to continue to do it is because we do it well. Right? You had this, this podcast. If you all were not committed to having a great podcast with great questions and great insight, if that wasn't your commitment, you would no longer have the opportunity to do it. Yeah, no question. So, so same with me, you know? Netflix is not going to continue to give me opportunities and to make movies

• 1:08:15Speaker 04

  if I don't have the commitment to greatness, which I do. Every day I get up and I'm like, how do I tell a great story? How do I make sure everything I'm a part of is great? But I'm doing it from a place of feeling secure. Yeah. And that is the best place to create from. When you look in the mirror and you say, man, you know what? I love you, dude. You know what I mean? You are exactly who God needs you to be right now. You are exactly where he needs you to be. Man, you, man, you good. When I can do that, then it's like, okay, bet. Now I can be in a development meeting. Now I can go to set. I, now I can work, because I'm doing it from a place of freedom. Yeah. From a place of security, not like, oh, my God. If Relationship Goals doesn't, doesn't do a certain thing on Prime Video, then, then, then I'm not going to be a success.

• 1:08:58Speaker 04

  No, no, I'm successful regardless. I love that, man. And anything that I do is going to be an outgrowth of that success. Not needing that success to feel like I'm a success, if, if that.

• 1:09:09Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, makes perfect sense. I think that's a, that's a, that's a perfect place to end, man. I just really wanted to, to get there because and be true, that's kind of where it starts. Right? That, that this is who I was and I wanted, as we left, people to know who you are.

• 1:09:24Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:09:24Ryan Clark?

  And so, man, thank you so much for your time, man. We appreciate you. Continued blessings, continue to impact people the way that you do. And I think in telling your story and allowing more people to know that you could be multifaceted, not only in what you do, but in who you are, is important for people of our community.

• 1:09:42Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:09:43Ryan Clark?

  Man, thank you.

• 1:09:43Speaker 04

  One thousand percent.

• 1:09:44Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir, no doubt.

• 1:09:44Speaker 04

  Appreciate you, man. Absolutely.

• 1:09:46Channing Crowder?

  Man, that was awesome, man.

• 1:09:48Speaker 04

  Thank you, sir.

• 1:09:49Ryan Clark?

  See, I curse more than you in that one, man. You curse, man. Uh-huh, yo, yo. I said a big one too. Just a little bit. You got the. Man, man. I said a big one.

• 1:10:00Speaker 04

  He taped right, he taped right.

• 1:10:02Ryan Clark?

  Hey.

• 1:10:27Speaker 07

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now it's your time.

• 1:10:31Speaker 06

  We go D.

• 1:10:35Speaker 07

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