Michel Roux Jr.

We have the wonderful Michelin star chef, and owner of La Gavroche, Michel Roux Jr joining us for lunch this week. Mum was surprisingly calm considering she was cooking for a double Michelin star chef, but Michel even got involved and guided her through the fish cooking! We heard all about Michel’s military training in his teens, his dad cooking for the Queen Mother, his love of vintage champagne, leaving Masterchef The Professionals due to potatoes and he tells us how his mother’s waters broke right in the middle of their dinner service! Michel was a true gentleman and joins our list of fabulous chef guests across the series. You can catch La Gavroche at Wimbledon this summer and on board selected Cunard cruise ships. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:35Jessie Ware?

  Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm in the room with Lenny and she's laughing, thank God. Why are you laughing?

• 0:42Speaker 02

  Well, it has been a traumatic week, Jess.

• 0:44Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah, I know, I know. We just want to take a moment to say rest in peace, Prince. The cat that you have heard a lot of.

• 0:53Speaker 02

  Annoying us.

• 0:54Jessie Ware?

  Annoying you for years. He's been, you know, a staple of Table Manners. But sadly, we said goodbye on Monday.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03Jessie Ware?

  How are you, Lenny?

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Well, I'm coping just, but I do miss him. And I see my handbag on the floor and I think it's him.

• 1:10Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think, oh God, he's come back. No, I don't. He's come back. But the nasty cat that caused his demise by fighting with him came into the kitchen.

• 1:22Jessie Ware?

  What a... The gumption.

• 1:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, looking for food. And Prince to have another go. And I shooed him out and threw water on him.

• 1:33Jessie Ware?

  Rest in peace, Prince. And thanks for being a great cat.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  He was a beautiful cat. Very handsome.

• 1:39Jessie Ware?

  Very handsome.

• 1:40Speaker 02

  And why did he get his name Jessie? And whose cat was he, actually?

• 1:43Jessie Ware?

  He was mine.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. And who...

• 1:45Jessie Ware?

  He was ours.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. And who did you call him after?

• 1:48Jessie Ware?

  The artist.

• 1:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Formerly known as.

• 1:50Jessie Ware?

  So he's up with the Purple Prince now.

• 1:52Speaker 02

  He's up with the Purple Prince.

• 1:54Jessie Ware?

  Shredding guitars.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 1:56Jessie Ware?

  Or sofas. So we had... It's really hot today in London.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00Jessie Ware?

  It's so hot that we've decided to get the PIMs out. And this is not a sponsor. It's that we've heard that this guest that we have on is his favourite drink in the summer.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  It's an odd one for a Frenchman.

• 2:11Jessie Ware?

  Do you think? Yeah. Let's talk about our guest, Mum. Who have we got on?

• 2:15Speaker 02

  Well, he's someone I've admired for a long time. A, because he is the most wonderful chef and cooks things that I could only dream of cooking. And I did really want him to do an exhibition of how you'd make eau flottante.

• 2:31Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  Um, I would have loved that, au Paris Brest. But sadly, I'm cooking for him today, so I hope it's up to snuff.

• 2:39Jessie Ware?

  What have you made today?

• 2:40Speaker 02

  I've made sea bass baked in the oven.

• 2:44Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  With white wine, olives and tomatoes.

• 2:48Jessie Ware?

  Yum.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  Delicious sea bass. I'm gonna get him to serve it, darling, so I'm but don't make a big pig's ear of it.

• 2:54Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  And then I've done potatoes roasted with fennel. It's an Angela Hartnett recipe. I've done some little courgettes à la barpiti, because we were there last week. And I've done some white asparagus, because it's the season.

• 3:10Jessie Ware?

  And what have you done for pudding?

• 3:11Speaker 02

  I've made an almond lemon and apple cake. River Cafe. Easy.

• 3:17Jessie Ware?

  Yum.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  They say it's easy, who knows?

• 3:20Jessie Ware?

  Was it easy?

• 3:21Speaker 02

  It was easy. It looks nice. I hope it's nice.

• 3:24Jessie Ware?

  So Michel Roux Junior is a renowned chef, French chef. He owned the two Michelin starred restaurant Le Gavroche, which was opened by his father, who was Albert Roux, and his uncle Michel Roux. And then it closed last year in January and I was so desperate to go.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  I know.

• 3:43Jessie Ware?

  And people that said they ate there, it was just such a memorable experience. Um, he was also on MasterChef The Professionals.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  He was the kindest person, always very encouraging. So I hope he'll be encouraging today, Jessie, when I make an ashen blottee of anything.

• 3:59Jessie Ware?

  And he's, I think he lives locally.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I used to see him down Happyville Road, darling.

• 4:04Jessie Ware?

  Michel Roux Junior coming up on table news.

• 4:15Jessie Ware?

  Michelle Rougier, you are here in our kitchen and we are very excited to have you. We've wanted you on for so long. Mum is... Mum, actually, you're being quite calm for us having a Michelin-starred chef.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  We did two Pimms.

• 4:29Speaker 03

  It looks beautiful. That's a piece of art.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Jo did that.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  So much work that's gone into that.

• 4:34Jessie Ware?

  Oh my god, I feel like we're a MasterChef professionals with that answer. You always were the nice guy.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Are there any more glasses like this?

• 4:40Speaker 03

  It would be rude for me to say no. I will have a little bit of that because it looks like fruit salad.

• 4:45Jessie Ware?

  It does. It's good for you.

• 4:46Speaker 03

  You've got your five a day now. I'll help myself. I'll serve.

• 4:49Jessie Ware?

  Can you stop yourself from getting involved when you're at other people's houses?

• 4:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've walked in and I've served the water, I'm serving the Pimms.

• 4:59Jessie Ware?

  Can you stop yourself? Or do people quite like you when you come over and you're like, you know what? Mum wanted you to fill it the fish today.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  You will be doing that. I just wanted you to come in and knock up a quick eau flotante.

• 5:14Jessie Ware?

  And how's your morning been? What did you have for breakfast?

• 5:17Speaker 03

  So breakfast is always the same. I'm a creature of habit.

• 5:22Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  So it was really nice coffee, strong coffee, black coffee. Good quality bread, which is really important.

• 5:32Jessie Ware?

  Where do you get your good quality bread? Oh, thank you, Nasser Boukou.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  There's a new one that's just opened on St John's Hill called August.

• 5:43Jessie Ware?

  Oh, I've not heard of it. So you're schlepp all the way there for your bread?

• 5:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not far.

• 5:48Jessie Ware?

  Oh, I guess you like running and running.

• 5:49Speaker 03

  There's another one closer by on going towards Ballam. It's called the Lockdown Bakery.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  Oh, the Lockdown Bakery. It's just at Clapham Sound?

• 5:58Speaker 03

  Yes, that's very good too.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Is it? I thought it was a CAF. I didn't think it was...

• 6:03Speaker 03

  Well, they do both. They do.

• 6:04Jessie Ware?

  And what's your bread of choice? A sourdough loaf or?

• 6:08Speaker 03

  I do like sourdough. Sourdough seems to be getting a bit of a bad rap because it's everywhere. But I like sourdough, a good sourdough.

• 6:15Jessie Ware?

  So what did you have this morning?

• 6:17Speaker 03

  Baguette. I actually had a bit of baguette toasted, lots and lots of butter. Salted butter, of course.

• 6:25Jessie Ware?

  Yep.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  From France?

• 6:27Speaker 03

  Yes, Normandy butter. And homemade marmalade.

• 6:31Jessie Ware?

  Oh, lovely.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  It's that routine. I like routine. I like order. I like... Precision and I like everything in place.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  He's like Andrew Ridley.

• 6:42Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  From Wham, you know.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  No, no, Andrew, I've met him several times.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Okay, so he has exactly almost the same breakfast as you.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, routine, I like routine, I don't like to be.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Do you? What, I'm not into star signs, but what stars, are you Virgo? Oh, you're Gemini?

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, Gemini. Well, I, I have two sides, two sides to me.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Okay, so do you have a wild side as well?

• 7:06Speaker 03

  Less so now, but yes, when I was young.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Okay, good.

• 7:09Jessie Ware?

  So let's talk about when you were younger, where did you grow up?

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Cheers.

• 7:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, cheers, thank you, thank you for inviting me.

• 7:14Jessie Ware?

  Such a pleasure.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Thank you for coming.

• 7:16Jessie Ware?

  Where did you grow up and who was around the dinner table? And I think I can imagine who was cooking, but tell us a memorable dish from your childhood.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  Um, gosh, well, I, I was born here in the UK, in Kent, to be precise, because mum and dad came to this country in nineteen fifty nine. Um, and so, yeah, dad was cooking, uh, in private house for a family called the Casilet, Casilet family. In Kent, on a beautiful estate called the Fairlawn Estate. And dad was the chef, the private chef, as it were, sort of Downton Abbey scenario or.

• 7:53Jessie Ware?

  Upstairs, downstairs.

• 7:54Speaker 03

  Downstairs. And mum was the kitchen help, so it was the two of them. And, um, so they were dishing up dinner to the family. And, uh, I kind of thought it was time to come out, as in mum was heavily pregnant and the waters broke.

• 8:12Jessie Ware?

  Oh, wow.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  In the middle of service.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 8:17Speaker 03

  So she was rushed to hospital and the following morning I was in a professional kitchen. So from day one of my life, I was in a professional kitchen because obviously they didn't have any family, they didn't have any money to have nannies or care, childcare or anything like that. So I was in the, in the, in the professional kitchen. So when people ask me why were you, why were you a chef, well, I mean, it was only a natural progression of. What, you know, I I can't.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Saw you.

• 8:44Speaker 03

  Think of anything, yeah, yeah, can't think of doing anything else than being uh being a chef and following in, you know, my father and uncle's footsteps. So from the age of day one, all the way through till seven, we lived in this lovely little cottage uh next to the estate, the Fairlawn Estate. And it was wonderful. It was in Kent and rural countryside. Dad used to grow vegetables and, you know, fruit, uh rear animals for the table. So it was a lovely.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  Was it just you or did you have any brothers or sisters?

• 9:16Speaker 03

  Uh my sister, yes, but she came a lot later.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  Uh she's five years younger than me. So yeah, she just she only saw a little bit of life in the country.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  Is she a cook as well?

• 9:24Speaker 03

  No.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Do you describe you you're a chef, you're not a cook. I shouldn't say that.

• 9:28Speaker 03

  Um.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  There is a difference.

• 9:30Speaker 03

  There is a difference. In my view, there's a distinct difference between being a chef and being a cook.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Okay, so tell tell us what you think.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  All cooks can become chefs.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Yeah, I definitely couldn't. I don't have the discipline.

• 9:47Jessie Ware?

  I agree.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:48Jessie Ware?

  Um but let's go back to some of the meals you were having. Were you having a lot of the meals that the family were having?

• 9:54Speaker 03

  No.

• 9:55Jessie Ware?

  Or was it very separate?

• 9:56Speaker 03

  No, very separate. So um mum and dad would cook at home, uh because it was uh you know, cooking for the family, uh dad would get get home relatively early. Uh and there were times where the family were not in. So I mean, you know, lots of time with with mum and dad, which was lovely. It was a, you know, wonderful childhood. And the food, well, the food was very French, obviously. I was brought, I mean, I was born in England, but brought up as a French child.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Right. They both spoke French.

• 10:24Speaker 03

  They both spoke French and and hardly any English at that stage. Um I mean, only a few words.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  So it's your first language?

• 10:31Speaker 03

  French, even though I was born in England.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 10:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh I mean, when I went to primary school, I I struggled at first because I didn't speak. English. So it really does, you know, put it in perspective. But the food, the food was wonderful. It was it was family French food, so you know, lots of of great classics. But because we were in the country, and as I said before, dad was rearing animals for the table.

• 10:55Jessie Ware?

  Oh, right, yeah.

• 10:56Speaker 03

  You know, I'd be playing around with the rabbits on on a Tuesday and and we'd be having roast rabbit on the Sunday. So, you know, but that was normal.

• 11:06Jessie Ware?

  Did you ever get affected by that? Were you ever like, please not Flopsy? Or it was just kind of part of your upbringing?

• 11:13Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 11:13Jessie Ware?

  That was the reality?

• 11:14Speaker 03

  That that was the reality. And then we'd do a lot of foraging. We'd go fishing and and, you know, any fish that we'd caught, we would eat. Gathering snails, crayfish in the rivers and such like, and mushrooms. And it wasn't it wasn't a gimmick or a fad or anything like that. It was what you did.

• 11:32Jessie Ware?

  And did your dad cook for you your meals? Or was it your mum that cooked your meals? What about?

• 11:39Speaker 03

  I would say it was a bit of both. And until we moved to London and dad and uncle opened Le Gavroche, so nineteen sixty seven. And then then that.

• 11:50Jessie Ware?

  How old were you then?

• 11:51Speaker 03

  Seven.

• 11:52Jessie Ware?

  Seven, okay.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  And then dad kind of disappeared because he was working all the hours and six, seven days a week. And he'd have a Sunday off, but he'd be sleeping all day Sunday, so I mean, yeah. So mum was really the one that was cooking everything and looking after the two kids.

• 12:08Jessie Ware?

  I just wonder, when did when did your dad and your uncle get the first Michelin star?

• 12:12Speaker 03

  Seventy two, because I I think the I think the Michelin guide launched in France in seventy or in seventy one.

• 12:21Jessie Ware?

  Okay, right.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  And then they got their first Michelin star in seventy two.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Why did everyone decide to come from France to England?

• 12:27Speaker 03

  From what I understand, my dad had got a summer job. Well, first of all, yeah, he got a summer job at Clifton House when it was still privately owned. So that would have been in the early fifties.

• 12:36Jessie Ware?

  Where's that?

• 12:37Speaker 03

  Clifton House, just in near Windsor. It's a huge estate. It's now a.

• 12:44Jessie Ware?

  National Trust.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  Hotel.

• 12:45Jessie Ware?

  Oh, it's a hotel.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've heard of that.

• 12:47Speaker 03

  Clifton. And so dad was a scullery boy there.

• 12:52Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  And so doing basic cleaning and peeling vegetables.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  But why did he come?

• 12:58Speaker 03

  He fell in love with the country. The following year, he had also another summer job in Ireland. Again, as a lowly chef and worked there for two months. And, and again, just loved everything that was British, the countryside. And he said, you know, one day I want to come and work in England. So he went back to work after that at the English Embassy, or British Embassy in Paris, as a chef. As a young chef, up and coming young chef, and said to his head chef and, and bosses there at the embassy. If ever there's a job that comes up as a private chef in an estate in England, please count me in. I want to do it.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  And in those days, and, and maybe still now, those kind of jobs were always filled by French or Swiss. Very often as well chefs, because they were the, the pinnacle of, you know, great food. So this came up and, and dad was.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  Where had he trained in France?

• 13:58Speaker 03

  Started as a pastry apprentice in Paris and then went straight into private house. So cuisine bourgeois, as we say, which is private chefing for the, for the elite and the nobility.

• 14:13Jessie Ware?

  So, I mean, you grew up as a, a French boy in the UK. But what was some of your favorite UK dishes or were they kind of not allowed to be eaten?

• 14:24Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, not, not at all.

• 14:25Jessie Ware?

  It sounds like your dad embraced, he, he loved being here, so.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  Dad absolutely loved it and loved British cuisine. So, I mean, you know, he, he really got into it. And because it was a British, you know, obviously an, an English family, actually the Casselettes. And probably what I omitted to tell you was the estate, Fennel Estate and the Casselet family were horse trainers to the Queen Mother.

• 14:45Jessie Ware?

  Ah.

• 14:46Speaker 03

  So very often the Queen Mum would come back.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  So he'd be cooking for her?

• 14:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Fun. What was her favorite thing, do you know?

• 14:53Jessie Ware?

  Did she ever request?

• 14:54Speaker 03

  She really did enjoy the cheese souffle at that, at the Supersous. So, and she used to ask for mustard with it, which you can understand cheese and mustard works really well. So it's a good combo. But no, she would always have mustard on the side, but, but various other things. But yeah, a little anecdote about that, about the, the Queen Mum. The, the Casselet family had children.

• 15:18Speaker 03

  About my age at that time when dad was there. And one day when the queen mum was coming in and inspecting her horses and stables and stayed for lunch. And as I alluded to earlier, I was always in the kitchen, even when I was a baby and a toddler. And I escaped from the kitchen and went down into the into the corridors of the of the estate. And the queen mum came back just before sitting down for lunch with me in her arms and said to dad, chef, I think this one belongs to you.

• 15:56Speaker 03

  Not that I remember it, but it's a it's a lovely story.

• 15:59Jessie Ware?

  So like you have a wonderful, you had a fantastic relationship with your dad.

• 16:04Speaker 03

  Yes, I mean, up up until he, you know, up until we moved to London in sixty seven.

• 16:10Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 03

  It was fantastic. It was absolutely wonderful childhood, beautiful, beautiful childhood. And but then, but then, you know, he wanted to open the restaurant. And then from, yeah, the age of seven till about, I would say.

• 16:27Speaker 03

  I was an apprentice, so sixteen, hardly saw him and we didn't really have much time.

• 16:33Jessie Ware?

  Restaurants are hard work, aren't they?

• 16:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, because, you know, he wanted, you know, to to make an impact, which he did, to get the business going. I mean, the holidays were great, summer holidays, we would go fishing together and whatever, which was fantastic, don't get me wrong. But but but that very, very close childhood relationship stopped. And then and then I disappeared at the age of sixteen to do my apprenticeship and travel the world and, you know, be a chef. And then when I came back, then and started to take the business over, that was very fraught and very difficult because.

• 17:06Jessie Ware?

  It's hard working with your family, isn't it?

• 17:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  And he didn't want to let go.

• 17:11Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah, okay.

• 17:12Speaker 03

  You know, he said, no, I'm retired. My hell, he was. He didn't want to let go, so.

• 17:15Jessie Ware?

  How old were you when you took it over?

• 17:18Speaker 03

  Oh, gosh.

• 17:23Speaker 03

  Twenty nine, thirty.

• 17:24Jessie Ware?

  So you'd had like fifteen years' experience, cooking, making a name for yourself.

• 17:32Jessie Ware?

  And yeah, it was, it was tough for you to let go. Well, I'm sure, was it kind of like, did he give you the space to do what you needed to do? Or was it very much teething issues for a while?

• 17:42Speaker 03

  I mean, he did and he didn't. It was, as I said, it was very difficult for him to let go, I feel. And he was always, he was omnipresent. He was always there.

• 17:53Jessie Ware?

  Did that drive you mad?

• 17:54Speaker 03

  At times, yes. And, and we did have words.

• 17:59Jessie Ware?

  In the kitchen?

• 18:01Speaker 03

  Oh, sometimes, yes.

• 18:02Jessie Ware?

  Yes.

• 18:02Speaker 03

  Which was not pretty.

• 18:04Jessie Ware?

  Oh, I bet.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  Smelling good.

• 18:08Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 18:12Jessie Ware?

  It's hard to cook it. Go on.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  English food, yes, or, or.

• 18:14Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, thank you.

• 18:16Speaker 03

  So when I was at primary school in Kent, there's, there was a headmistress called Etty. I remember it clearly, vividly, from, from the valleys from Wales. Wonderful lady, beautiful, beautiful lady. So, so just so warm and friendly.

• 18:35Jessie Ware?

  And you were maybe have, were you having quite a hard time at primary school at this time?

• 18:38Speaker 03

  It was difficult to, because English was not my first language.

• 18:41Jessie Ware?

  And you're in Kent and potentially.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  It was, yeah, I mean, it was, it was beautiful. I have only fond memories of that. And Etty Bless took, took me under her wing. And when there were special events or my mum and dad were very busy, she would look after me in the evenings.

• 19:03Jessie Ware?

  She was like Miss Honey.

• 19:04Speaker 03

  She was wonderful. And she would make me some wonderful crumbles, steamed puddings, things like that, you know, good, proper English or Welsh maybe puddings. And they were a real treat, absolute treat. And I remember, I remember them, you know, still remember them.

• 19:25Jessie Ware?

  So parry breast or steamed pudding?

• 19:28Speaker 03

  No, no, no.

• 19:29Jessie Ware?

  You can't do that.

• 19:30Speaker 03

  I mean, if I had two children, it would be like asking.

• 19:35Jessie Ware?

  Let's speak about your daughter Emily. Just got her first Michelin star?

• 19:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right.

• 19:40Jessie Ware?

  How do you say it, pronounce it properly? Character.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  Character.

• 19:46Jessie Ware?

  Yes, and it's in West London, Westbourne Grove?

• 19:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, Notting Hill. It's the corner of Westbourne Park and Ledbury.

• 19:54Jessie Ware?

  Oh, wow. So she's right by Ledbury.

• 19:56Speaker 03

  She is next door to the.

• 19:57Jessie Ware?

  Creme de la creme up there.

• 19:58Speaker 03

  It's a, it's a really, really, and you've got Core as well and so many other.

• 20:03Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  She's started restaurants now up there. It's incredible.

• 20:05Jessie Ware?

  So, obviously, it's her restaurant, but I can imagine you've been quite involved or not. Has she been like, Dad, I've got this?

• 20:17Speaker 03

  Um, well.

• 20:18Jessie Ware?

  Does she run things by you?

• 20:20Speaker 03

  Sometimes, yes, and, and, you know, ask for advice or what I would do in this case, or, you know, what happens if this, that or the other. So, you know, that, that's really great. But I don't go in there and say, look, you should be putting that on the menu, or this isn't right or that. No. It's.

• 20:38Jessie Ware?

  Did you teach her or did she go to?

• 20:40Speaker 03

  Uh, no, no, she, she did her own thing. She went to hotel catering school in France and, and, you know, played her own way. She, and not once did I have to, you know, intervene or, or say, look, if you want, I can get you a job here, or I think you should be doing this. No, quite the contrary. She's, she's very strong minded. She's a, hence the name character or character of the restaurant. But equally, um, Diego, her husband, my son in law, who's an absolutely amazing talent in the kitchen as well, fantastic chef. Um, so they, they work really well together. Um, but I, I ran it past them if they wanted to take over Le Gavroche. Um, way in advance to me taking my decision to, to close the restaurant.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  Um, and they didn't want to. They, they said, no, no, no, we, we want to run our own, do our own thing.

• 21:29Jessie Ware?

  Was that hard for you?

• 21:32Speaker 03

  Yes and no. Yes, because it would have been nice to continue.

• 21:36Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  And, and they are, they, they were more than capable of taking it on and, and keeping it, you know, going as a success. Um. But then I then I see how well they're doing in their own restaurant. And how happy they are. Uh then I think, no, actually, you've probably done the the right thing.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Does it make you think that? Would you have done things different? Do you kind of wonder whether you would have liked to have had?

• 22:00Speaker 03

  So I often think about that.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  And I think. What if I had done the same as Emily and said to the old man? No, you can stick to your restaurant. I want to do my own thing. Um. Where would I be now? Would I still be? And I I think. You you just don't know.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  But I think I would have. Have probably done something like Emily and opened a small restaurant. I mean, I'm. Hopefully, uh talented enough to have. Gain my own Michelin stars and and my own recognition. In many respects, Emily and and Diego, because you can't. Can't really say it's just Emily, it's Diego as well, and the whole team, because they're fantastic. They're still carrying on the Rue legacy, as it were, because. You know, that's that's the third generation. Uh of Rue.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  How many covers were there at the Gavroche? How many?

• 22:53Speaker 03

  It's a sixty eight seater restaurant.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 22:56Speaker 03

  Um and we used to renew a few tables, so we used to a- average around eighty covers a night.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  And how big is the character?

• 23:03Speaker 03

  Forty, a much smaller.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  And is that more manageable?

• 23:08Speaker 03

  Um it's just a much smaller premises. I mean, the kitchen is is probably about the size of where we are now. And for a professional kitchen, it's quite small. Um so they couldn't really do much more than.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  But it's still fine dining?

• 23:19Speaker 03

  Um yeah, fine dining. I'm not keen on the moniker of fine dining.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  But I thought you only got a Michelin star if it was kind of.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  No, no, not at all.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Oh, explain.

• 23:29Jessie Ware?

  Can you explain some of the things that are? Of course, there's particular criteria for Michelin, but what do you feel like are the main components? Because, yes, what some people may presume is fine dining, it's.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:41Jessie Ware?

  Pe- people like Anglo-Tai Mountain, um Saint John, are are kind of squashing that. So what do you think of the? The key elements of getting a Michelin star.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Um.

• 23:52Jessie Ware?

  Apart from great food.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  Well, it's not apart from great, because when you ask, and I've I've asked several times, and so has Emily, and you know, we have spoken to Michelin inspectors, and and they will always say it's all about the food. Food first and foremost.

• 24:07Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 24:08Speaker 03

  So, and then consist consistency. So it has to be consistent. So if you are a Saint John's, for example, which is wonderful, but very, very pared back, it's, you know, the the protein and the sauce, boom, or the roasted bone marrow, which is fabulous, and the parsley salad and the grilled bread, boom. If you go in there on a Tuesday, it has to be exactly the same on the Saturday. It has to be just perfect. It's just simplicity, perfect ingredients,

• 24:41Speaker 03

  and consistency. So that's the number one thing that they will look for.

• 24:44Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  And it doesn't matter if you've got silver cutlery, or they, uh, you know, they they will present you with a wine list or a sommelier or anything like that. That's added sort of value, as it were. But it is first and foremost, quality of the food and consistency.

• 25:01Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 25:02Speaker 03

  And they say that is the same criteria for one, two and three. Although I feel that when you move up to two, then there's more of the service element and the little extras come into it. And then for three, it has to be the full monty. You you have to have everything. It has to be a a blowout experience, which obviously is seen in the price.

• 25:28Jessie Ware?

  Do you eat out a lot?

• 25:30Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, I mean, I'd like to eat out more, but, you know, every night of the week would be great, but because I enjoy going out. I I enjoy eating out. I enjoy tasting different food. I enjoy. Enjoy restaurants, so I enjoy being in restaurants.

• 25:44Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Speaker 03

  Um, so, yeah.

• 25:46Jessie Ware?

  Where do you go locally?

• 25:48Speaker 03

  Uh, locally, Trinity.

• 25:49Jessie Ware?

  Um. Yeah.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  Trinity downstairs, if you want Michelin star and, you know, really, really on point food. Upstairs for, um, because he has upstairs as well.

• 25:59Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, it's just more casual. I think I've only been to the downstairs.

• 26:02Speaker 03

  Well, upstairs is really casual.

• 26:04Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  Uh, it's chalkboard.

• 26:05Jessie Ware?

  Great.

• 26:06Speaker 03

  Menu, uh, catch of the day and it's just grilled and served with a nice, you know, dressing or veg on the side.

• 26:12Jessie Ware?

  Where else in clu-, do you go to Shay Bruce?

• 26:14Speaker 03

  Yes, of course.

• 26:15Jessie Ware?

  I love Shay Bruce still.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  Shay Bruce, I've probably clocked up about seventy odd visits.

• 26:20Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  We used to go every, it was a ritual, us- used to go every Sunday night with Emily. Uh, when she was three, four, five, six, seven, eight, so all of those ages. Um, and we used to go nearly every Sunday night and then we were the first table in. Uh, and they knew, I could, I could book last minute because they knew I would be out within an hour and a bit.

• 26:45Jessie Ware?

  You had a young child.

• 26:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, uh, we would go in, sometimes I'd pre-order, I'd phone them and say, can we have the this, that and the other?

• 26:52Jessie Ware?

  We are the same person. Do people get irritated when you do that? Did your wife get irritated with you when you'd be like, do you send a menu to somebody if they're late at the, at the restaurant and saying, what do you want? See, maybe I should be in the restaurant star show, I don't know. I, I don't, I, I could not be. Um, so what, what was your order for your young daughter at Shay Bruce? Do you remember?

• 27:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we would share the, uh, sort, not the Tournedor, the, um, Chateaubriand, Chateaubriand, chunky chips. Uh, and then I can't remember what we would have as a starter because it was always changed, but they always had the Chateaubriand.

• 27:28Jessie Ware?

  A side of indigestion.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  Or a rub of beef or something.

• 27:30Jessie Ware?

  Yum. Um, so can you tell everybody what's going on? Because Le Gavroche is returning.

• 27:38Jessie Ware?

  For Wimbledon.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  Sorry, I'm munching my five.

• 27:41Jessie Ware?

  I know, it's delicious.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  It's delicious. Um, so I've been running a restaurant at Wimbledon, the um, the championships now for, uh, I think it's ten years.

• 27:50Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  It's called The Lawn, and we do about uh, seven, eight hundred covers a day.

• 27:56Jessie Ware?

  Crikey.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  And we do a full à la carte, so you've got a choice of four starters, four mains, four desserts, and then afternoon tea after that. Um, it's a huge operation, massive, massive operation.

• 28:08Jessie Ware?

  And are people quite stressed out because they're worried they're about to miss a game, or is it they come for the meal and they aren't rushing you?

• 28:16Speaker 03

  It's tight because we open the, open the doors at around, I think it's ten thirty or eleven. Most people just have a couple of pims or a cocktail and then suddenly realise, oh, I'd better sit down and eat. Um, and then you've got to try and get three courses in, uh, in.

• 28:32Jessie Ware?

  Before two o'clock?

• 28:34Speaker 03

  One thirty it starts now.

• 28:36Jessie Ware?

  Oh my goodness.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  So it, it, it's tight, but.

• 28:40Jessie Ware?

  You do it.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, and if it's, if it's a men's game, it's gonna last five sets, isn't it?

• 28:45Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, you need sustenance.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  If, well, no, well, yes, but, but it means if you miss the first couple of games, it's not too, too important. Because you're still gonna get a load of tennis. Um, and what they do generally is they put a doubles game or a low seeded match first, so there's not too much of a rush. Uh, and some people just don't really care.

• 29:08Jessie Ware?

  Because they're eating your food.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  They're only there for the food. And so tha- that's what we've been doing for the last eight, ten years, I can't be, can't remember exactly. But last year we launched Le Gavroche at Wimbledon as well. So we took a part of The Lawn Restaurant and built a mini Gavroche. It's decorated like Le Gavroche and it's tasting menu only, so five courses, uh, with pairing wines. Uh, and it's a, it's a really, really sort of special experience.

• 29:41Jessie Ware?

  Jesse, book now. No, I think it's probably sold out.

• 29:43Speaker 03

  It gets sold out within minutes. It's, uh, and the, and the front of house staff are Gavroche, so.

• 29:51Speaker 03

  Recognisable, they know, you know, it's.

• 29:53Jessie Ware?

  That's so special.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Really good.

• 29:55Jessie Ware?

  Does it satisfy you to be able to do that, or is it kind of bittersweet?

• 29:58Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, it it really is a joy. And that was exactly what I wanted to do with Gavroche. So, close the restaurant, take back control of my life and back control of Le Gavroche because the Le Gavroche was a monster and it was controlling me, and then taking Le Gavroche on the road, as it were. And and I'd taken Gavroche to sea, so in in two weeks, I'm on the Queen Mary and we've got Le Gavroche at sea. Uh, for a week, uh.

• 30:26Jessie Ware?

  Are you travelling with?

• 30:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  To get seasick.

• 30:29Speaker 03

  No, I don't get seasick.

• 30:30Jessie Ware?

  Okay, where are you going on your on your cruise?

• 30:34Speaker 03

  Um, Norway. I love Norway.

• 30:36Jessie Ware?

  Okay, that's good. I would have gone, I would have gone more Med.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  Uh, that's possibly for next year.

• 30:43Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  Can I just ask?

• 30:44Jessie Ware?

  Norway in the summer is stunning though, isn't it? I mean, stunning all the time.

• 30:47Speaker 02

  Should I unwrap? Do you think if I unwrap it slightly?

• 30:50Speaker 03

  Let's have a look at this fish, come on. You're worried.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  I am worried. It's not hot, that's, oh, that's starting to get hot now. But it has been in twenty minutes.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  It's not hot, is it?

• 31:05Speaker 03

  That's not cooked.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  A little nice and pointy, right?

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, just look in that top drawer. Shall I open it?

• 31:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, leave it. That's not cooked.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  I've turned it round, so.

• 31:17Jessie Ware?

  Can you fix Lenny's oven as well?

• 31:19Speaker 02

  No, I don't know why it's not, because it's been on.

• 31:23Jessie Ware?

  It's the recipe for two sea bass.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. And she said twelve to twenty minutes.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Twelve minutes, we'd never cook that size of sea bass.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  Cook that size, would it?

• 31:32Speaker 03

  Never.

• 31:32Speaker 02

  That's like half an hour, thirty five minutes job, I think.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  I would, I would have said at least.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Anyway, I think it opened, I think it will get the heat to it.

• 31:39Jessie Ware?

  Well, whilst we wait.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 31:41Jessie Ware?

  It's okay, we're gonna ask you your last supper. You are going on a desert island for a very long time and you have your last supper. A starter, a main, a dessert and a drink of choice.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  Starter, I'm gonna go for souffle suisse. So that was the signature dish at Le Gavroche. It was on the menu in nineteen sixty seven and we, I only once attempted to take it off the menu. And it was, yeah, it was just wasn't worth it because everyone was complaining, saying, we've travelled from New York just to try your cheese souffle, why is it not on the menu?

• 32:17Jessie Ware?

  So. Why did you want to take it off because you were bored of making it?

• 32:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was bored of making it and I wasn't a particular huge fan of it. I mean, I've just.

• 32:25Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  What's in the souffle suisse?

• 32:27Speaker 03

  So it's double cream, seasoned with, seasoned with salt, pepper and cheese. And then.

• 32:35Jessie Ware?

  Which cheese?

• 32:35Speaker 03

  And that tiny bit of mature cheddar and gruyere or emmental. So you cook the souffle base once, then tip it onto the cream, cover it with cheese, grated cheese and bake it again. So it's twice baked. It's, it's about a million calories, well, not million, around a thousand calories, whatever, in a bowl. And I just, I just thought, hmm, I wanna move on from that. So I took it off the menu and about two months later, I put it back on the menu. And it's, I have a love hate relationship with it, put it that way.

• 33:09Jessie Ware?

  Have you cooked it since you?

• 33:11Speaker 03

  Oh, yes.

• 33:12Jessie Ware?

  Yeah. Have you ever cooked it at home?

• 33:16Speaker 03

  No. Never cooked it at home. Funny enough, I was doing an event with Emily in her restaurant last night. And it was on the menu there, we cooked that for our guests as well. So I really enjoy seeing it every now and then now, but yeah.

• 33:33Jessie Ware?

  But it's on your last supper because of memories?

• 33:36Speaker 03

  Memories and sentimental reasons.

• 33:37Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  And I do actually like eating it.

• 33:39Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Just that much, is this a fast?

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Labour intensive.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  There's a lot of work that goes in.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, it's a very, very simple dish, but there's a lot of work that goes into it, if that makes sense.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do, okay.

• 33:53Speaker 03

  There's no more like, there's four ingredients.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  So it's, yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  So that's your starter.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  My start is that, souffle suisse. Uh, second course would be a, uh, roasted lobster with lashings of garlic butter. There's a theme to this, isn't there? There's a lot of, lot of.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  Butter.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  Fats, yeah, garlic butter smothered in it. When you think you've got enough garlic butter on it, put some more.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Where are you getting your lobster from?

• 34:19Speaker 03

  Scottish.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:20Speaker 03

  Scotland or Brittany, either or, I don't want to, don't want to cause a.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Okay. Do the lobsters come live?

• 34:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:26Speaker 02

  Oh my god, how do they travel in a little tank?

• 34:29Speaker 03

  Oh, first class.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  First class?

• 34:33Speaker 02

  And what sides are you having with that?

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Uh, so sides with that would be, uh, chips, but, uh, big fat chunky chips.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  Okay, interesting.

• 34:43Speaker 03

  Not, not the french fries.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  Fried in what?

• 34:45Speaker 03

  Duck fat.

• 34:46Speaker 02

  Duck fat.

• 34:47Jessie Ware?

  Thrice, rather, triple.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  I've never had duck fat chips, have you?

• 34:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, well, it has to be an animal fat, either duck fat or, or.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  Beef?

• 34:56Speaker 03

  Beef dripping or, yeah, or even pork, I mean, it, it, it's got to be cooked.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  You need a lot of that to make a chip, wouldn't you?

• 35:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  It's okay, there's jars. Okay. And what else?

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Molden sea salt on top and Bernay sauce.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  Mmm, my favourite.

• 35:11Speaker 03

  Thunk my chips in.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm salivating.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  Mmm.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Um, any veg?

• 35:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 35:17Speaker 03

  But there, there, there's a bit of greenery there, the chopped parsley and the garlic butter.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Oh my god, that's so funny. Okay, um, drink? What are you having in your drink?

• 35:23Speaker 03

  Um, I'm having vintage champagne.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  Which champagne is that?

• 35:29Speaker 03

  I mean, there, there are some grand marque out there, Tatinier being one of them, and Comme de Champagne would be, would be rather nice. Um, I mean, I've brought a very nice bottle of.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  I know, he's brought a beautiful bottle, we'll have to use it to celebrate.

• 35:42Speaker 03

  Really nice bottle of Paul Roger, which again is, you know, great champagne, but there are Kluge, obviously.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  How.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  A vintage champagne.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  You're not Cristal? No.

• 35:55Jessie Ware?

  How vintage are we talking like, how far back are we going?

• 36:00Speaker 03

  I I love old champagnes.

• 36:02Jessie Ware?

  Like, how old?

• 36:04Speaker 03

  Twenty years old is not a problem. If it's a good champagne.

• 36:07Jessie Ware?

  It will be okay.

• 36:07Speaker 03

  It will be fine. And it's been kept properly. I I really, really do love old champagnes.

• 36:14Jessie Ware?

  I don't know if I've ever had a really old champagne and.

• 36:19Speaker 03

  It it it's just become so complex, the flavour profile changes completely. Obviously, there's a a little less fizz. And a vintage champagne, a really, really old vintage champagne, if you're talking look fifteen, twenty years plus. I think is is better to be consumed with food. A a younger champagne has an a period teeth.

• 36:39Jessie Ware?

  So pudding, are you a sweet man?

• 36:43Speaker 03

  So I did a pastry apprenticeship, um so I I lo- I love pastry, love making it and eating it. I wouldn't say I've got a sweet tooth, um.

• 36:54Jessie Ware?

  You say that, but you did have marmalade for breakfast.

• 36:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's homemade marmalade and it's not very sweet.

• 37:01Jessie Ware?

  Really?

• 37:01Speaker 03

  Um we we, I say we, it's my wife's recipe. She cuts back a lot on the sugar and so it's.

• 37:08Jessie Ware?

  Quite tart.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  It's very sharp. Well, not very, it's sharp and tart and it's not too sweet. Um but no, so I mean. I would go for pudding, I would go for a chocolate mousse.

• 37:18Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Really?

• 37:19Speaker 03

  Classic.

• 37:20Jessie Ware?

  I thought we should have done a chocolate mousse.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  No, I wouldn't have done it if he can make it.

• 37:25Jessie Ware?

  That's a good point.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  There used to be a place in Paris where my daughter lived there, not this one, called Hippopotamus, and it was a big chain. They made the best chocolate mousse and it used to be, you used to go to this kind of side table. And it was enormous and you just took as much as you want.

• 37:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, I I remember.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  It was wonderful. It was called Hippopotamus and it was steak, I think.

• 37:48Speaker 03

  There's one that still exists uh in Montparnasse in Paris. In fact, I think it was the first one that opened in Montparnasse.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  It's so delicious.

• 37:55Speaker 03

  They put a little flag on your steak if you wanted it blue or red or whatever.

• 37:58Speaker 02

  And and then the choc- and the chips and it was all fab. Um and then the chocolate mousse was the thing and you just could keep, of course, you couldn't eat that much and they knew that because you'd be sick. If you were to cook any other cuisine, what cuisine would you cook? Or can you even?

• 38:17Speaker 03

  I can't pretend to be proficient in any other cuisine than French. Um, I dabble in it, yes, of course, like we all do, I suppose, uh, but, um, but no. I, I, if I were to start my-

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Michelle, you can't be a one-trick pony, I'm sorry.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  I am, I'm sorry. If, if I were to start my career all over again, um, I, I did do six months in Hong Kong, which was fabulous. I really, really enjoyed that. But I would, I would do more, uh, spend more time in Asia, uh, in Japan, um, maybe in America, wherever possible.

• 38:56Jessie Ware?

  So, um, we've talked about clapping quite a lot because we're here, but are there any go-to restaurants? Maybe you're gonna say your daughter's restaurant, but, um, of course. Um, but any other ones that you absolutely adore to go to in London or in the UK?

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, gosh, there are so many. Um, Nottingham Sat Baines is one of them.

• 39:20Jessie Ware?

  Sat Baines?

• 39:21Speaker 03

  Sat, yeah.

• 39:22Jessie Ware?

  I don't know that. We've never had that on here.

• 39:26Jessie Ware?

  What kind of food?

• 39:29Jessie Ware?

  French?

• 39:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, based on French classical, um, technique, I would say. But he has Indian, uh, he is Indian, so he has Indian lineage and heritage. So he brings a lot of that into his cuisine.

• 39:46Jessie Ware?

  That sounds really interesting.

• 39:48Speaker 03

  It's beautiful. Um, so that's, that's, that's where I've been recently and I must say blown away, very, very good food. Um, gosh, where else can I? Oh, um, talking of Indian, Bibi in Mayfair.

• 40:01Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Been to Bibi?

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Do you want me to attempt to do this? You're going to do it.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  You want me to?

• 40:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:07Speaker 03

  Try and fill it, the fish?

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  Dissect the fish?

• 40:18Speaker 00

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• 40:55Jessie Ware?

  Looks really nice, Mum. It smells delicious. Just very simple.

• 40:59Speaker 03

  And white asparagus?

• 41:01Jessie Ware?

  Yes, Mum's very excited to eat that.

• 41:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:04Jessie Ware?

  It's my first.

• 41:05Speaker 03

  Really?

• 41:05Jessie Ware?

  Right, is it going out of season now?

• 41:07Speaker 03

  No, no, no, but you don't see that much now in the UK. White asparagus is very German, Belgian, Northern France. But you're starting to see them more now in the UK.

• 41:18Jessie Ware?

  Oh, okay. Um, please tell us.

• 41:21Speaker 03

  I like them, white asparagus. Um, right, okay. I'll take one with lots of bones in.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  You don't need to.

• 41:29Jessie Ware?

  No, you don't have to.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Please take the best, because I'm good with bones.

• 41:34Speaker 03

  So am I.

• 41:35Jessie Ware?

  I don't know if I'm good with them, but you are the guest.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  He's giving you the best bit.

• 41:40Jessie Ware?

  Thank you. Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you. Do you ever eat any version of junk food or guilty pleasure food? No. Never.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  So never Kentucky Fried Chicken?

• 41:54Speaker 03

  So my first and last Kentucky Fried Chicken.

• 41:59Jessie Ware?

  Oh, no.

• 42:00Speaker 03

  Was in 1976.

• 42:03Jessie Ware?

  What happened?

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Uh, and I'll tell you where it was as well, 1976.

• 42:08Jessie Ware?

  Brixton?

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Clapham High Street.

• 42:10Jessie Ware?

  Oh, okay.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  The one on the corner there, Clapham Manor Street.

• 42:12Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, yeah. Thank you.

• 42:15Speaker 03

  And that was, I was in Scouts in Clapham Manor Street.

• 42:20Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, that's lovely.

• 42:21Speaker 03

  And the Scout leader or whatever it was called.

• 42:26Speaker 03

  Said, guys, there is a new restaurant.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  That's opened on the high street. And I'm gonna treat you to it. And he brought this massive, great big bucket of Kentucky Fried.

• 42:37Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  And that was my first and last.

• 42:41Jessie Ware?

  Did you not enjoy it?

• 42:43Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:44Jessie Ware?

  Wow, you're like the only kid that ever said that.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  Like it, didn't like it at all. So I don't wanna go back there. Fast food, I'm not against fast food yet, but I think it's, it's almost become a go to for, for, for a certain generation. And it's just wrong.

• 43:00Jessie Ware?

  Mm hmm.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  Um, and it's laziness.

• 43:03Jessie Ware?

  But people just don't cook.

• 43:04Speaker 03

  It's.

• 43:05Jessie Ware?

  It's really nice, mum. It's really gentle. It's delicate and lovely.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Shocking. Mm.

• 43:10Jessie Ware?

  Darling.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Mm. These asparagus need a bit of.

• 43:14Jessie Ware?

  A bit woody, aren't they?

• 43:16Speaker 03

  So I'll tell you a thing about white asparagus.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  Wow, I do cook them longer.

• 43:21Speaker 03

  They do need more cooking than green.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  I did cook them longer, but this is quite bitter.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  They do taste bitter.

• 43:26Jessie Ware?

  Why?

• 43:27Speaker 03

  They always do. The white ones have, have more bitterness than the green ones. That's why they need to be cooked a little bit more. And they have like two skins.

• 43:37Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  Oh, god, should I peel them?

• 43:39Speaker 03

  Did you not peel them?

• 43:40Speaker 02

  No, they're, they're.

• 43:42Jessie Ware?

  Enjoy that.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  Oh shit.

• 43:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  They're a bit stringy, aren't they?

• 43:47Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 43:48Speaker 03

  Asparagus, white, especially white asparagus, they need to be peeled.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Oh, I didn't. So peel them now.

• 43:55Speaker 03

  The peeler on them.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Well, now we know.

• 43:58Speaker 03

  Hmm, oh yeah.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  Oh, actually, if you peel them, you're fine. Rape off the top, it's alright.

• 44:04Speaker 03

  So, fast food, yes, I'm, I'm.

• 44:05Jessie Ware?

  You won't do it.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  I'm not a fan. Um, for me, the idea of fast food is, you know, an egg, for example.

• 44:13Jessie Ware?

  So, I mean, MasterChef professionals is kind of where everyone fell in love with you on screen.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 44:20Jessie Ware?

  Because you were kind.

• 44:22Speaker 03

  I think it's because I was honest.

• 44:24Jessie Ware?

  Honest, but you, I mean, you were, you were great, but like you were. But gentle.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I, I think some of the comments that I got at the beginning there was, gosh, he's harsh and gosh, he's tough. And but, you know, I, I was upholding my profession and I was being professional.

• 44:38Jessie Ware?

  These are professionals as well.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that too, absolutely.

• 44:42Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 44:42Speaker 03

  But I was being honest and honest in my appraisals and trying not to be overly negative. And to always give them something to hang on.

• 44:52Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 44:53Speaker 03

  Uh, and that's important. You know, I, I always say, okay, it's, it's very easy for, for somebody to, to find negative and to, to give somebody a load of shit, as it were, uh, for doing something wrong. But a far more powerful tool is to tell somebody when they've done something right.

• 45:10Jessie Ware?

  Mm hmm.

• 45:11Speaker 03

  Uh, and you should never forget that. So, you know, it doesn't matter how menial or small the task is, if they do it right, they've got to be told that we're doing it right.

• 45:20Jessie Ware?

  Well, you got it when it all ended. I was. I loved you the best. Over bloody potatoes.

• 45:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:27Jessie Ware?

  Hmm. It was ridiculous. Hmm. Yeah.

• 45:31Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 45:32Jessie Ware?

  Can you explain what happened briefly, if you don't?

• 45:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I, I didn't fall out with the MasterChef production company or the crew there or anything like that. I, I fell foul of editorial policy.

• 45:45Speaker 03

  Or as people in the BBC call it, Ed Poll.

• 45:49Jessie Ware?

  Ed Poll, you and Gary Lineker.

• 45:51Speaker 03

  Correct. So for, for a while, I thought, who is this bloke, Ed Poll? I want to meet him. Yes, I was that naive. And I didn't have an agent because I, I kind of have a bit of a dislike in agents. So I read my contract, but obviously not well enough. And I, I just did my own deals, you know, I'm grown up enough to understand, I think, but I didn't, didn't quite read that line. Anyway, the, the reason why we fell out was that I did an advert for potatoes.

• 46:22Jessie Ware?

  Albert Bartlett.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  Albert Bartlett and their jolly good potatoes. Um, so my argument was that my relationship with the Bartlett family preceded anything, any kind of contract that I had with the BBC or with MasterChef. And we were in fact close family friends, which is true. And we go back loads and loads of years. I'm way before MasterChef. So. My argument was, well, I'm doing an advert not because I am now famous through MasterChef. I'm doing an advert because of my relationship, which precedes any time with MasterChef. And they said, well, no, you're doing this because you are now famous because of MasterChef.

• 47:06Speaker 03

  So anyway, we were to and fro, to and fro, and went upstairs and downstairs. And I never got to meet Ed Paul, but I understood about editorial policy. And I can understand where they are coming from in a way, in a way. And so I left, which was a shame because I really enjoyed doing MasterChef. I really enjoyed that nurturing and the finding of new talent and helping them. I carried on. It wasn't, you know, that's it, you're crowned, you get your little trophy and off you go. Notice I haven't stopped eating.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  I'm, do you know, I'm so flattered that you've eaten it.

• 47:45Jessie Ware?

  It's really nice, Mum.

• 47:46Speaker 03

  The fish is really.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  It's delicious, yeah. It's very good seafood.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  The seasoning is glorious as well, so well done.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  Very, very. You feel always something positive. Even though I fucked up with the asparagus.

• 48:00Speaker 03

  No, the asparagus was not good.

• 48:02Jessie Ware?

  What will we always find in Michelle Ruijunia's fridge that will always be?

• 48:09Speaker 03

  A bottle of champagne.

• 48:11Jessie Ware?

  Vintage?

• 48:13Speaker 03

  For that moment, you never know.

• 48:17Jessie Ware?

  I love that, always ready to celebrate.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, that's life, isn't it? You should always be ready to celebrate.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  I like champagne when you're a bit miserable and it cheers you up.

• 48:28Speaker 03

  Well, it does.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it definitely, there's something in it.

• 48:31Speaker 03

  Champagne is for any.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, it lifts you, yeah.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  Even when you're thirsty, champagne's good. That's what Madame Boulanger said. But salted butter.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Do we have a French cheese in there?

• 48:43Speaker 03

  There is always cheese in my fridge. I could live off cheese.

• 48:48Jessie Ware?

  What is your cheese board going to be if we're coming round for dinner?

• 48:51Speaker 03

  There would be an assortment of goat's cheese, because I love goat's cheese.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  Blue cheese, obviously, as well, maybe a Rockford, a Forme d'Ambe, or maybe a Stilton.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  You like blue cheese?

• 49:06Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, love blue cheese. I lo- I love all cheese. The only cheese I dislike are the really sweaty, smelly ones.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  Oh, I love those. Stinking bishops, one of my favourite.

• 49:17Speaker 03

  No, I'm not.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  But I love a good cheddar.

• 49:20Speaker 03

  A good quality cheddar.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  A good cheddar and a good gouda.

• 49:23Jessie Ware?

  What cheddar are you gonna have?

• 49:25Speaker 03

  When we had Le Gavroche, we were really fortunate to be able to get a seven-year-old Davidstow cheddar. So it's been matured for seven years.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  Seven years.

• 49:35Jessie Ware?

  Oh, that, has it got like the crunch?

• 49:37Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  A lot of the crunch in it.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  And it's buttery and flavour and the crunch of the crystals. It is extraordinary. Yeah, so Davidstow in Cornwall, and we used to get the seven-year that they used to mature just for us.

• 49:52Jessie Ware?

  That is special.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  Very, very special.

• 49:55Jessie Ware?

  Um, are you ready for something sweet?

• 49:56Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:57Jessie Ware?

  A tiny slice. Well, it doesn't have to be tiny, but you know. Um, Mum, do you, does it, do you eat it with anything? Do you want me to get, is it crème fraiche?

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Crème fraiche and a free.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  Oh, my word. That looks nice.

• 50:08Jessie Ware?

  This is Ruthie Rogers, it's River Cafe. What is it? I'll let Mum say it.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Almond, lemon and apple tart. Michelle, do you want a big bit?

• 50:17Speaker 03

  That's beautiful.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Perfect, thank you. Bit of cream.

• 50:21Jessie Ware?

  Yeah. You served in the French military for a year, did you?

• 50:24Speaker 03

  Yes, that's right, yeah.

• 50:26Jessie Ware?

  What was the food like there?

• 50:29Jessie Ware?

  And could you get involved?

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. I did my twelve months military service, and that was to keep my French nationality.

• 50:37Jessie Ware?

  Wow.

• 50:38Speaker 03

  Uh, because I have dual nationality. At the time, I didn't want to, um, to, to sort of waste a year as it, as it was, doing my military service.

• 50:48Jessie Ware?

  Because you'd already started your apprenticeship, you didn't, yeah.

• 50:50Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 50:51Jessie Ware?

  At the age of sixteen, right?

• 50:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, so. Being called up to do your military service at the age of eighteen to twenty. Um, that's when they they used to you used to get the letter. Um, and I just thought, no, I'm in the middle of sort of learning, I'm cooking, you know, I. Why would I want to go and train to be a soldier? And I saw it as a waste of a year. And my mum and dad said, well, look, this is, you know, an opportunity to keep your French nationality. And dad said, well, look, if you want to do it, I can maybe have a word with a few people in the military. Uh, circle and see if we can pull a few strings and get you not to waste a year. So I said, okay, in those conditions, let's do it.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  So I was called up and did my three months of military training, so learning how to. Shoot, bivouac and and march and all the other stuff, just outside of France, uh, Paris in Fontainebleau. So um, military training for three months in the barracks. And I can assure you that the um, the food in the barracks in France was not the best. It it was, it was pretty dire. But then when when we used to go out on, um, uh, bivouac, so. While camping or whatever you call it with training sessions for several days, we would be given rations. Now, the the rations for the French army were incredible.

• 52:14Speaker 03

  You had your tin of of meat and spam, corned beef kind of stuff. And cassoulet and and things like that. Uh, but you also had a twelve milliliter bottle of. Firewater, for want of another word, uh, nul, we called it in French. So it's it's basically alcohol, forty, fifty percent proof alcohol.

• 52:39Jessie Ware?

  Forty fifty percent? What were you meant to be using that for, to drink?

• 52:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:43Jessie Ware?

  Oh, was it for wounds or something?

• 52:44Speaker 03

  No, no, no, to drink. And there was a bar of chocolate and bitter chocolate, not milk chocolate. Um, which you think, wow, you know, that's and and and let's not forget, we were served wine as well. Nah, of course.

• 53:00Jessie Ware?

  Did they have wine with lunch in the military?

• 53:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:04Jessie Ware?

  That's brilliant.

• 53:05Speaker 03

  I mean, French, French schools only stopped serving wine, I think, in the seventies.

• 53:11Jessie Ware?

  Oh, my God. What, to the, to the children?

• 53:13Speaker 03

  Well, not, not the bambinos, not the kids.

• 53:15Jessie Ware?

  No, to, the, the, the teachers were drinking wine?

• 53:18Speaker 03

  Oh, teachers, yeah, and they probably still do, actually. Different cult, different culture.

• 53:21Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, but, um, but, but in high school, would children be drinking wine at lunch in the, before?

• 53:25Speaker 03

  I'm pretty sure it was the seventies.

• 53:26Jessie Ware?

  Probably around sixteen, yeah. That's fat.

• 53:28Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm not advocating drinking, you know, I'm working or whatever, but that, that was the culture. So, anyway, so I had, you had chocolate, you had, and this firewater, I call it, it was really, really strong, potent booze, um, bottled booze, um, so that the, the rations were really, you know, okay, I thought. So we were given blanks as well to fire and all that, and so I traded in my blanks for the, for the booze and for the chocolate. So for three or four days, I'd been a drunken stupor, uh, because I wasn't really fond and just playing around, being a somnus.

• 54:03Jessie Ware?

  No.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  So, anyway, for three months, we, we did our military training and then dad managed to wangle it that I would, uh, go and cook at the Élysée Palace. So I ended up being part of the brigade that cooked for President Giscard d'Esta and President Mitterrand.

• 54:21Jessie Ware?

  Amazing.

• 54:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it wasn't a waste of time.

• 54:23Jessie Ware?

  No, there you go. Well, I wouldn't make this again. Oh, I think it's really nice.

• 54:28Speaker 03

  Steady on, I thought, I think it's all right.

• 54:29Jessie Ware?

  It's nice tasting. Yeah, but it's, she calls it a cake.

• 54:33Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 54:35Jessie Ware?

  I think your, I think your oven's off, Mum. I don't think it is, darling, it was properly cooked. Tastes really nice, I'd have a tiny bit more, actually.

• 54:41Speaker 03

  I like it.

• 54:42Jessie Ware?

  Okay, you, yeah. It's got really nice taste. But it's almonds and lemon and lots of apples. Yeah, but the lemon in it is really, I like it.

• 54:50Speaker 03

  I like it too.

• 54:51Jessie Ware?

  Okay, good. It's really nice, Mum, and it's really hard having a Michelin, two Michelin stars. A pastry chef, yeah. Yeah.

• 54:58Speaker 03

  Now, you know what's missing?

• 54:59Jessie Ware?

  What?

• 55:00Speaker 03

  A bit of Alvaro's.

• 55:01Jessie Ware?

  Oh, shush.

• 55:05Jessie Ware?

  Um, before we let you go, Michelle Regina, what would be a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere?

• 55:12Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 55:15Speaker 03

  My grandmother on my mother's side was a fabulous cook. I mean, really, I mean, actually, my mum's a fabulous cook as well, I mean, really good cook. And Grandma Jacqueline was her name. She used to make the most amazing rabbit with pastis. You know, pastis, the uh.

• 55:35Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 55:36Speaker 03

  The aniseed drink that the French knock back and in especially in the summertime. And she she used to.

• 55:43Jessie Ware?

  Rabbit in pastis.

• 55:44Speaker 03

  Joint, yeah, it's you you don't automatically think this is gonna be, you know, good. So the the rabbit was totally jointed, because I I adore this dish and the smell of it was so heady of aniseed. Um, and I'm not a huge aniseed fan and I don't like to drink pastis, so I was really curious, so I had to watch her make this. Because to eat it, it was divine.

• 56:07Jessie Ware?

  Mm.

• 56:07Speaker 03

  Uh, and it used to fill the whole house with this wonderful aroma. So she'd joint the rabbit, get a whole rabbit, joint it down, uh, put it in aluminium foil, similar to.

• 56:17Jessie Ware?

  The papillon, yeah.

• 56:19Speaker 03

  Loads of fennel, garlic and onion, and then about half a bottle of pastis. And you think, this is bonkers, it's just gonna be so overpowering and and it's just not gonna be nice. Uh, olive oil, and it was wrapped up tightly in a papillon and baked in the oven, I can't remember.

• 56:37Jessie Ware?

  Hours.

• 56:38Speaker 03

  But for a long time.

• 56:39Jessie Ware?

  Any herbs, which herbs?

• 56:40Speaker 03

  No, no, just fennel, but there was the fennel tops as well.

• 56:43Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  All that lovely green, yeah.

• 56:44Jessie Ware?

  But that's even more kind of aniseed.

• 56:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:47Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 56:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 56:48Jessie Ware?

  Wow.

• 56:49Speaker 03

  I mean, I don't like aniseed, but I'd like fennel for some strange reason, it's.

• 56:52Jessie Ware?

  I'm with you.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  And it would come out and then she would bring it to the table and just open up this and it was just. And the rabbit was so tender, uh, but moist and then all the lovely juices. And you couldn't taste the pastis, it would just be sweet.

• 57:08Jessie Ware?

  Fat.

• 57:10Speaker 03

  Fennel, uh, and rich rabbit flavour, gorgeous dish.

• 57:15Jessie Ware?

  How do you say junior in French?

• 57:19Speaker 03

  So you want the real story about behind junior? So it wasn't Kristen Junior. It was named after my uncle, Uncle Michel.

• 57:27Jessie Ware?

  He did, who did Le Gafferage with your dad.

• 57:29Speaker 03

  That's right, yeah, and then went on to head up the Waterside Inn and then Waterside Inn was passed on to my cousin Anna. So I rented a flat, actually on Abbeville Road, from my uncle. He bought a house and put it into three flats. And so when I first came back from my travels, I rented a flat off him. And I was getting lots of letters addressed to Michel Roux, which I automatically opened, but they were not for me. They were for my uncle. Sometimes there were bank statements because we banked in the same bank. Sometimes there were bills, sometimes the private letters. So I put them together and just

• 58:10Speaker 03

  send them off to him or put them at the office for him to collect. And occasionally, there were letters from his girlfriends. Yes, so the girlfriend.

• 58:20Jessie Ware?

  How many did he have? Girlfriends.

• 58:21Speaker 03

  Girlfriends with an S.

• 58:23Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 58:24Speaker 03

  So some of them were just charming letters and, you know, rather nice. Others were rather ramborous and very cheeky.

• 58:31Jessie Ware?

  And you read them?

• 58:32Speaker 03

  Well.

• 58:33Jessie Ware?

  Of course, obviously.

• 58:36Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, I mean, they started off, you know, I don't know, mon cher Michel or my darling Michel. So before you curiosity gets the better of you, doesn't it? I mean, it did me anyway. So I'd have a giggle or whatever, but

• 58:52Speaker 03

  so I thought this can't carry on. I've got, I've got to do something here. And what broke the camel's back, as it were, was one day a letter came in address to Michel Roux and it was in a padded envelope and quite chunky. So I opened it up and there was another letter, but. A pair of knickers in there as well.

• 59:13Speaker 02

  Oh my goodness me.

• 59:15Jessie Ware?

  Enough's enough.

• 59:17Speaker 03

  So I said, enough is enough. This is getting embarrassing. So I, from that day on, I said, right, that's it. I'm going to tag Junior onto my name so that this kind of thing is not going to happen. So I put Junior on all the correspondence from then on.

• 59:36Jessie Ware?

  That is brilliant. Michelle Wu Junior. Thank you so much for coming on Table manners. It's such a pleasure.

• 59:43Speaker 03

  Thank you. It was really nice this apple.

• 59:45Jessie Ware?

  It is really nice. The apple's got so much flavour, I like it.

• 59:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  It's really good.

• 59:51Jessie Ware?

  You never have to cook for them again, Mark.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  No, I'm relieved.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  I love Michelle Wu Junior. They say don't meet your heroes, but I've met him and I loved him just as much as I always thought I would.

• 1:00:17Jessie Ware?

  The food was really, really nice, Mark.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Was it?

• 1:00:19Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, and it looked like it's just really stressful when you're cooking for somebody that's so good. And he was very helpful.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, the filleting.

• 1:00:26Jessie Ware?

  He held your hand along the way.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I learnt all about.

• 1:00:29Jessie Ware?

  He got a knife in and checked the temp.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, and taking the back of the fish out first is the best bit.

• 1:00:35Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, you take along the spine and there's no bones there.

• 1:00:39Jessie Ware?

  Got it.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I've learnt a lot today.

• 1:00:41Jessie Ware?

  I will be taking some of that tart to the studio now. Okay. Because it was really tasty. Um, well done.

• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:00:49Jessie Ware?

  Thank you to Michelle Wu Junior, who was such a fantastic guest. Haven't had a chef on for ages, have you?

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  No. He loved, he loved food, didn't he?

• 1:00:57Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, don't we all?

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  I wished I'd tasted that souffle suisse.

• 1:01:01Jessie Ware?

  We're going to find a way.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  I know, we're going to have to find a way of eating it.

• 1:01:04Jessie Ware?

  Um, right, we'll see you next week. Thanks so much for listening.