Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 118: Golden State Killer Caught!

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 118: Golden State Killer Caught! Karen and Georgia discussed the arrest of the Golden State Killer and the decades-long investigation that led to his capture. Tune in for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode! Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Karen Kilgariff?

  This is exactly right.

• 0:07Karen Kilgariff?

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• 1:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello and welcome.

• 1:47Georgia Hardstark?

  To Rewind with Karen in Georgia.

• 1:49Karen Kilgariff?

  This is a show where we look back on our old episodes from 2018 and we get to revisit the incredible breaking news moment that we still can't believe we were there for.

• 1:59Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 1:59Karen Kilgariff?

  In a very special rewind today, we're rewinding to episode 118, which we named "Golden State Killer Caught."

• 2:07Georgia Hardstark?

  It happened. It was real.

• 2:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Incredible.

• 2:09Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode originally came out on April 26, 2018.

• 2:12Karen Kilgariff?

  All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 118.

• 2:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that it?

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Goodbye.

• 2:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my God, you guys.

• 2:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck, they caught the fucking Golden State Killer. East area motherfucking rapist.

• 2:35Karen Kilgariff?

  That... This is one of the fucking weirdest experiences of my life.

• 2:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's talk about last night. I'm laying in bed. I'm fucking... I've been up since 5:00 AM. I'm like, great. I already know I'm gonna need Xanax to go to sleep just for the fucking shit of it because I drank a fucking cold brew that day. Then I look at my texts and immediately... And see what I've fucking been hoping to see every morning I wake up for fucking ever. You texting me and Steven, "They caught the Golden State Killer."

• 3:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 3:06Georgia Hardstark?

  And I fucking pop out of bed, gasping, scaring the shit out of Vince. He was like mad at me and I call you immediately.

• 3:15Karen Kilgariff?

  It... I was driving home from the Hollywood Improv. Just did a show there. Met some nice listeners who had come to the show. I was having a wonderful evening. Coming down off of that. And I have to admit to you, although I was not reading and driving, I waited for a red light.

• 3:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 3:35Karen Kilgariff?

  But as I am addicted to Twitter,

• 3:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 3:37Karen Kilgariff?

  I opened my Twitter and I'm actually going to read his name because this is the first person who told me. Which means the world to me because someone was on it and immediately was just like, "Did you hear this?"

• 3:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Everyone else who's tweeted us after is loses to this guy.

• 3:52Karen Kilgariff?

  It is... His name's Eric and it's @era, E-R-A, can't see. And he wrote, "They got him?" Question mark, Reddit is excited. So he basically came over and let me know. And so at a red light, I opened this thing and it's basically just like, there is an arrest. And it's 100% DNA match.

• 4:15Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, I didn't see that part yet. The thing that got me excited, like that I wasn't just like, "Oh, this is just another thing," is when it said, when you said Reddit's excited? And I'm like, well Reddit, if Reddit's excited?

• 4:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 4:27Georgia Hardstark?

  That's like almost better than if fucking law enforcement is excited.

• 4:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, because I feel like Reddit is set up to make people stop being excited.

• 4:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 4:34Karen Kilgariff?

  There are the people there that...

• 4:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Shut them down.

• 4:36Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like, no, no, you're being rash. You're being immature. You're being too hopeful.

• 4:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Or you're fucking pinning it on someone that has nothing to do with it and that's fucking illegal and crazy and stop it.

• 4:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly. Yes, that's a very important point to make.

• 4:51Georgia Hardstark?

  So, and what happened, you know, then I lay down and I start fucking Googling and redditing and twittering for fucking hours. And at first it was, they had the name of some dude that it wasn't. I'm obviously gonna say his name, but he was also in law enforcement. You know, it could have been him, all this shit. And so I did all this fucking research on him, then it wasn't him. So, and like they put photos up. They put, it's just...

• 5:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Of the wrong guy?

• 5:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Of the wrong guy, but at the same time, this guy... This guy's a piece of shit too, so, I mean, whatever.

• 5:23Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's the wrong guy. I think it's like, that's the thing that we were talking about before. It's just, this, all I can think about is the beginning of Making a Murderer, where they are having that exact same kind of press conference. And was it Ken Kratz or whoever that guy is? It's just like, "We got him. This is it." And it's just that thing where, as we watch stuff like this, then we're just like, "This is it." Joseph DiAngelo is the, you know, police allege, Joseph DiAngelo is the fucking Golden State Killer. And then we want that to be true so bad that it's just like, "And now we're going all the way down this road." And that's all I think about is, "These days, how many fucking documentaries have you seen where then they pull it all apart?"

• 6:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, but, I know. Yes. The 100% DNA match. And the fact that I think that...

• 6:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that does make a huge difference.

• 6:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Because, and also because that's been happening, that happens so much. And what a huge, high-profile case this is with so many different jurisdictions. I don't think, these people had to do so much fact-checking. They did not arrest this fucking guy until they were sure. Otherwise, it would have looked really bad. It would have made them look incompetent. It would have been a ton of fucking jurisdictions. That would have looked bad, not just, you know, the fucking Manitoba County or whatever the fuck.

• 6:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Manitoba County?

• 6:42Georgia Hardstark?

  My God. Okay, if you could get one question answered right now.

• 6:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, let me, can I just also say this? Never in my life have experienced this. From the moment you and I started talking last night, I had, like, Georgia, so I text that, then fucking thank God Georgia calls me because I was like, "If I have to be by myself with this information, I'm gonna lose my mind."

• 7:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and Vince gave zero shits. He fucking fell asleep immediately.

• 7:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, that'd be like him going like, "Oh my God, mankind is gonna star in a movie or something." Or like, "I wanna care."

• 7:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, I just said to him as he was leaving, you know, we were supposed to go to breakfast. We talked about it on lunchtime. And then I was like, "I'm sorry, this is my WrestleMania."

• 7:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 7:16Georgia Hardstark?

  He's like, "I know, I know."

• 7:17Karen Kilgariff?

  He understands.

• 7:18Georgia Hardstark?

  He made us bacon.

• 7:19Karen Kilgariff?

  He lives it. He knows it.

• 7:21Georgia Hardstark?

  He made us coffee and, he made us like a spread as if we were like reporters.

• 7:25Karen Kilgariff?

  But I have to say, I've never had the experience of, when we started talking about the reality of it, getting waves of chills and just continuing to get waves of chills. I was laying down, it was four hours later, I was still getting chills. And it's like, it's a feeling that I think everybody wanted to have and everyone thought they would never get to have.

• 7:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 7:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Everybody that cares about this case or has been paying attention.

• 7:47Georgia Hardstark?

  My favorite, I just, I mean Reddit, I love Reddit. And last night, it was like, it was my like companion. And the couple of the things that I thought were so funny. One person put up a, fuck, I should find them. Can you find, no, put up a thing of that, that there's gonna be a fucking sale on yearbooks from 1972 and 1973 in Sacramento today.

• 8:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 8:11Georgia Hardstark?

  And also that all the people who have a fucking lifetime subscription to classmates.com are really bummed right now. It's all the people who are like looking through the yearbooks.

• 8:20Karen Kilgariff?

  They were like, "Should I do it a one year? A three year or a lifetime?"

• 8:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 8:24Karen Kilgariff?

  And then they're just like, "Why the lifetime?" But you never know, somebody else could come up.

• 8:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 8:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it's not...

• 8:30Georgia Hardstark?

  That's true.

• 8:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, it's so crazy. And then when we were talking about it on, like, we were basically texting on two different threads.

• 8:39Georgia Hardstark?

  You text me, we were texting on two different threads because Steven hadn't responded yet, which is so unlike Steven. What were you doing?

• 8:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Steven's the first responder at all times.

• 8:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Steven's the first, Steven's, I'm, when I saw that...

• 8:49Karen Kilgariff?

  He starts everything.

• 8:50Georgia Hardstark?

  We come in, I thought it was from Steven because he's the one who's always like updating us on these crazy shit.

• 8:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  I was at Margaritaville.

• 8:56Karen Kilgariff?

  You are so fired. It's unbelievable.

• 9:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Unbelievable how fired you are.

• 9:01Karen Kilgariff?

  You're beyond fired.

• 9:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Leave the equipment. Get the fuck out of here.

• 9:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Show us how to use it.

• 9:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Feed my cats while we're in Europe.

• 9:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Take care of business.

• 9:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Please get the fuck out.

• 9:10Georgia Hardstark?

  And I just want to say how Steven's mustache... Did you see me keep trying to videotape you?

• 9:14Speaker 01

  A little bit.

• 9:15Georgia Hardstark?

  You caught me. I don't, there's no like casual way.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  It's my anxious thing of like, I was just like nervous like holding on to it the whole time.

• 9:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, I just wanted to be like, this is how it is.

• 9:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I had my fist in my mouth. Like, I couldn't bite my nails enough. I just had to then go full fist, like an infant.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  I mean, we were leaning closer and closer.

• 9:31Georgia Hardstark?

  The computer as it was going on.

• 9:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Okay. But also, I have to say, and just as like the casual, almost like, you know, as this infotainment.

• 9:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:44Karen Kilgariff?

  That was such an unsatisfying press conference because we know he's in custody. We now know his name. We know that. I mean, that fucking mugshot is so uncool. It is so unnerving and upsetting looking, but he did have some scrapes on his forehead, which it looks like the cops may have accidentally thrown an elbow.

• 10:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, here's what I took away from them explaining how they detained him, that they were suspecting he was going to try to kill himself, which I know is something that happens a lot, like with older suspects, when they finally find them and they get that knock at the door and the fucking, they shoot themselves.

• 10:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, that's right.

• 10:19Georgia Hardstark?

  So it sounds like maybe they had to, I mean, I'm just obviously conjecture being out of my mind, but maybe they had to like fucking tackle him to get a gun away from him.

• 10:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, or they had some kind of, like, they were so prepared because they had gone through so much heartbreak that they already had a guy coming in his back door, you know, something like that where it's just like, they, I would, first of all, I'm so mad Paul Holes didn't get to talk during that. You have basically.

• 10:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, Paul Holes' appearance fee is way too high at this point.

• 10:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Like he's standing in the background.

• 10:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Dorky press conference.

• 10:50Karen Kilgariff?

  He was like the, he was the wallpaper of that entire press conference. I was just like, step forward.

• 10:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Cutout. It's not even him. He like sold them the cutout for $500 for a one-time use.

• 11:01Karen Kilgariff?

  And now it's going around to all the craft stores in the area because all the people that knit and do hand stitching and all that are like, yes, Paul's. But I wish, yes, I wish we could have just gotten the, the reason those reporters kept asking the same question over and over, and then Anne Marie started to get a little pissy, because Anne Marie's like, I control the information. You can tell she's just like, I don't like this fact that there's data miners that know more than I do.

• 11:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 11:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Clearly. But just the idea that we just want someone just walk us through real quick, the day before, up to the arrest.

• 11:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 11:35Karen Kilgariff?

  How, what, where.

• 11:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Or even like, I mean, of course, what I'm dying to know is what, you know, it's the thing of what led them to suspect this person enough to collect his DNA? Was it a tip? Was it, you know, was he on a list?

• 11:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it had to have been a tip, right?

• 11:51Georgia Hardstark?

  It had to have been, otherwise, why would they have, I mean, he fits the profile is what's obvious about it. He's 72 years old, so he's in the right timeframe. He was, he had access to police scanners, which is something they always suspected because he was a cop, which wasn't something that they had, you know, didn't seem like something they were looking into, but that meant he had access to, you know, there's like little things there that would have made him a suspect, but I bet there were thousands of those people.

• 12:18Karen Kilgariff?

  For sure.

• 12:19Georgia Hardstark?

  So there had to be at least one or two tips of like, and then you look at the photos side by side of him at that time, the Navy photo of him and the fucking, a couple of the sketches are like.

• 12:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Dead on.

• 12:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Dead on.

• 12:30Karen Kilgariff?

  That hairline is a super match. That's something I love to do. Yes, that's right. The lips, the nose in that one picture where his eyes are real sunken in.

• 12:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like, we were just talking about how, and we should put this up on Instagram, but the photo that is the most realistic and creepy that always gave me chills, looks the least like him.

• 12:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 12:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And the one that's kind of like, oh, someone didn't know how to fucking draw, looks the most like him.

• 12:51Karen Kilgariff?

  It's exactly him.

• 12:52Georgia Hardstark?

  So I apologize to whoever fucking drew that. I'm a piece of shit.

• 12:56Karen Kilgariff?

  But see, don't you think that that's, I mean, obviously, but this part of what all of this is, is we've been in a panic making things up this whole time of like, here's my theory, here's what I think, you know.

• 13:08Georgia Hardstark?

  This thing obviously leads to this thing. You can't, how can you not think it's this person? Because look at this, he did these things.

• 13:13Karen Kilgariff?

  My obsession is like, I was like secretly in my mind, but never had the guts to say it was like, he's some kind of a gymnast, he works at Cirque du Soleil, that thing of him like jumping over fences and shit is so like, not, not the average person can do that.

• 13:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, I wonder if he, they had that tip come in, that someone came into a hospital with a broken shoulder and they had checked because they realized that jumping over a fence, he wouldn't have known that there was an incline.

• 13:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, right.

• 13:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Right? So they went in and they asked hospitals around, like, did you get some character coming in? And there was a dude coming in who fucking had a broken shoulder as soon as they were onto him and realized that his ID was fake, he fucking bolted. And then the East Area Rapist was fucking out of commission for a couple of months.

• 14:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 14:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking probably recovering, you know, allegedly recovering from his shoulder injury.

• 14:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, because you can't, you can't do all the things, horrible things that he would be doing with just one arm. You can't control two people, tie them up, all that shit.

• 14:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, so maybe that's the fucking thing that they were like, this dude has a old shoulder injury. I don't know.

• 14:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean.

• 14:19Georgia Hardstark?

  It had to be someone who put it together.

• 14:21Karen Kilgariff?

  And now, so let's, in the, I think it's both of our favorite piece of information that we have learned, that everyone else has learned online.

• 14:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 14:30Karen Kilgariff?

  That this, the reason that Joseph DeAngelo, who the police suspect is the Golden State Killer.

• 14:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 14:36Karen Kilgariff?

  The reason he was kicked off the police force in Auburn is because he was caught shoplifting dog repellent and a hammer at a pay and save in fucking Citrus Heights.

• 14:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Tell me where that is. What's the place? What are these places like too? Are they rural? Because you're from there. They're rural as fuck.

• 14:54Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's actually, so Auburn is rural as fuck.

• 14:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 14:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Auburn is very, my college roommate lived there, is from there. And it's very like.

• 15:03Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not suburbs. It's like.

• 15:04Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it's rural, like horse people, farm people. It's also like rolling hills with lots of coverage of oak trees.

• 15:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Is it like beautiful and people have expensive houses there?

• 15:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 15:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Excluded, expensive secluded houses?

• 15:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly.

• 15:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Or like cheaper kind of big houses?

• 15:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I think it's a full range because you can live there cheaply.

• 15:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 15:24Karen Kilgariff?

  But also on a nice, like an acre of land that looks amazing. Like, everything comes with two oak trees type of place, is the feel.

• 15:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 15:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, remember that story I told you about the girl my roommate was friends with, who got up in the middle of the night and there was a man in the hallway, so she's just started making that noise?

• 15:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 15:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Auburn. That happened in Auburn.

• 15:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 15:43Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's a little bit like, it's, it's, it's as sketchy as a country area can be.

• 15:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. So you think it's safe, but it's so secluded, so secluded that it's.

• 15:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It's farm safe. So like, that's shotgun level safe.

• 15:57Georgia Hardstark?

  If you scream, your fucking neighbors aren't going to hear you.

• 15:59Karen Kilgariff?

  They, they, if they hear you, they won't be there for seven minutes.

• 16:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And they also will mind their own fucking business.

• 16:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. So you can scream if there's a pre-agreed screaming situation, but, so my point with him cutting that dog open, like, I now want to know when he got caught for shoplifting. It was? So it was before or after?

• 16:19Georgia Hardstark?

  After. Because he cut the dog, if you listen to the book, yeah, he cut a dog who came upon him while he was prowling, fucking cut the dog open, dog survived, don't worry. But the, the dog repellent's interesting for two reasons, because one, that the fucking hound dogs who are sniffing his trail, and in the book, they talk about how they lose the fucking trail at some point, they can't follow him. And also, the victim said that that he had a weird smell that they couldn't place.

• 16:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 16:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Which I have always wondered about. I got an email recently from a fucking cool dude who was like suspecting that it was a migrant worker. And then I, we were both like, maybe the fertilizer was a weird smell, it smells familiar, something like that.

• 17:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. And we were talking, you and I were talking about, if it were a migrant worker, it would be such a good hide in plain sight type of job, because if he was kind of like, you know, acting like he was, say, a down and out person that's just trying to blend in, like, nobody's going to be like, I am suspicious of this guy. That's, it's the perfect kind of society to blend into and have, nobody's going to say anything about anybody.

• 17:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Nope. It's a fucking local dad, husband.

• 17:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Neighbor.

• 17:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Cop, neighbor.

• 17:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Ex-cop.

• 17:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is even a better fucking way to hide, to blend in.

• 17:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Well, the ultimate fucking way.

• 17:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 17:40Karen Kilgariff?

  It can't be this old white guy in a white t-shirt with white hair, because.

• 17:44Georgia Hardstark?

  He's just an old man.

• 17:45Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just an old man that every once in a while yells fuck in the street, which is what the neighbors allege about the alleged Golden State Killer.

• 17:53Georgia Hardstark?

  On the, on the alleged news that we allegedly watched a minute ago. Oh, my God. And then we were talking about, okay, so everyone's, one of everyone's favorite clues or like conjectures is that at the town hall meeting that was had about the East Area Rapist while it was going on, that, that some, he must have been there because a man stood up and said, I don't believe that he would have, that he'd be able to break into someone's house when the husband's home. And.

• 18:24Karen Kilgariff?

  No man would let that happen.

• 18:25Georgia Hardstark?

  No man would let that happen. And three months later, everyone's like, a couple of days later? No, three months later, that man's house got broken into, which could have been a coincidence, we don't really know, but.

• 18:34Karen Kilgariff?

  And they were attacked.

• 18:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. They were attacked and the husband got tied up and his wife was raped.

• 18:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Horrible.

• 18:39Georgia Hardstark?

  So, God, was, he was a cop, you know, was, he would be so much less suspicious to be there. Like, when we're looking in the, at the photo of who's in the crowd, we're not looking at the cops.

• 18:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 18:50Georgia Hardstark?

  The people in uniform. I would fucking glance right over them.

• 18:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, especially like if he had the, the cop thing, and it would be interesting to be able to figure out when that, when that news conference was, or whatever they called it, the town meeting.

• 19:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Town hall meeting, I think, yeah.

• 19:03Karen Kilgariff?

  And, because he, they said he was an Auburn cop from 76 to 79. So did that lie in that timeframe? And then he could have even been standing in the front.

• 19:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 19:12Karen Kilgariff?

  He could have had his uniform on.

• 19:13Georgia Hardstark?

  He could have been onstage fucking with a bunch of cops.

• 19:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a cop hiding in plain sight.

• 19:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:19Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just, everything about this is, is as surreal as it can be.

• 19:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And then, you know, on Reddit, they're talking about like, well, why would a cop steal? But someone was like, it makes sense. Someone who likes a thrill, and the East Area Rapist, it almost feels like he got off on almost getting caught, because he did a lot of fucking creepy weird things that were over the top.

• 19:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Dangerous.

• 19:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Dangerous, you know? And so someone having, getting, needing to get off on like just stealing a quick thing, that would make sense. That fucking kleptomania thrill that you get.

• 19:54Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, because he was a cop, I bet you, he had seen things where people, they found the receipt for something and traced it back, and they only make these kind of hammers and carry them at this place. So he's like, there will be no trace of any of this stuff. So he, because he left stuff behind a lot.

• 20:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 20:09Karen Kilgariff?

  And so.

• 20:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Just so, but almost like, why would he do that unless he did it on purpose?

• 20:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, because like he's saying, you can't catch.

• 20:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Or you can't trace this to anywhere because I fucking stole it.

• 20:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. There's you, I know, he's working on like fucking nine different levels. It's.

• 20:23Georgia Hardstark?

  I wonder if the hammer like had the name of the store on it, the way they, some of them do, and it's like, he was going to leave it behind to be like, I was even at this store and you don't know who I am, because I didn't, I didn't interact with the salesgirl or whatever.

• 20:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, because then it would lead people there and then dead end.

• 20:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Because then this girl Sally would be like, well, I sold a hammer to this cop dude that I know.

• 20:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Dead end. Doesn't matter.

• 20:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Nope. Wouldn't happen.

• 20:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. No trace. It's beyond. They have to make sure he doesn't kill himself. They have to get him to talk.

• 20:55Georgia Hardstark?

  This is the part that gave me the most fucking chills that anything ever has. There's in Michelle's book, and it's known that sometimes he would start crying in the middle and say, I'm sorry, mommy, or fuck you mommy, and like, kind of lose it. And a lot of people were wondering, you know, was that just him, is that like a red herring? Is he trying to throw them off and make them think he's crazy, something like that? Okay, so this guy, the fucking amazing sleuth on Reddit, did all this fucking sleuthing. This guy, Joseph fucking D'Angelo, when he was younger, was engaged, they found the engagement fucking article, to a woman named Bonnie.

• 21:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Bonnie married someone else, he married someone else, and that was in 1976. And one of the women who was sexually assaulted insisted that, no, he laid down and said, fuck you Bonnie.

• 21:46Karen Kilgariff?

  I remember that.

• 21:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Not fuck you mommy.

• 21:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 21:50Georgia Hardstark?

  So.

• 21:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I remember reading the fuck you Bonnie thing.

• 21:54Georgia Hardstark?

  So is that?

• 21:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Recently.

• 21:56Georgia Hardstark?

  And this dude was fucking engaged to a woman named Bonnie, and the engagement got broken off somehow.

• 21:59Karen Kilgariff?

  And was that the piece that made the final, the final thing go click?

• 22:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 22:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, could that, could just uncovering that, an old engagement, that shit doesn't get recorded by the county.

• 22:11Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 22:12Karen Kilgariff?

  The only weddings do.

• 22:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 22:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, how would you know that unless suddenly Bonnie's like?

• 22:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Is Bonnie the one who's like, you need to look at my fucking ex? He was, I broke off my engagement with him for whatever fucking reason?

• 22:21Karen Kilgariff?

  For this reason and that reason.

• 22:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Does he like to eat fucking dog repellent? I don't know. Wait, what, that was the other one? There was another one that was fucking great. What was it? Jesus Christ.

• 22:36Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so, uh.

• 22:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Shaking.

• 22:38Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like a million, it's almost like, the, the feeling is supposed to be that, like, the homeland red string board, it's almost like, now we're done with that, but actually, a brand new one is starting.

• 22:52Georgia Hardstark?

  There's even more now. There's even more of those red fucking things. I want to know, like, what connection he, we still want to know what connection he had to the other cities. There's always been this guess of, like, maybe, well, there was the city planner, maybe he worked for an architecture firm, right? So what's the thing about this company he worked for?

• 23:08Karen Kilgariff?

  So there was an article that they found, or it looked like it was something out of an old yearbook. So this is like, the yearbook data.

• 23:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 23:18Karen Kilgariff?

  And it said that he, I think it might have been his, his, his little thing, they used to write a little chunk under, instead of like a yearbook quote.

• 23:25Georgia Hardstark?

  What it was in, and what panthem you played.

• 23:27Karen Kilgariff?

  So he worked for a place called Sierra Hoist and Hall, or some shit like that, I have the name in here. They always thought, he either had construction connections.

• 23:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Or he was in a class, learning how to be an architect.

• 23:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Architecture, or like, a landscape designer.

• 23:41Georgia Hardstark?

  And that's because of the homework, fucking, evidence.

• 23:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Piece of paper.

• 23:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is like, my favorite fucking evidence in the world, it's so creepy, and on the back of it.

• 23:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Is this from your spinoff podcast, My Favorite Evidence?

• 23:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I didn't tell you.

• 23:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Where you just read evidence.

• 23:55Georgia Hardstark?

  In a fucking monotone voice, where he writes punishment on the back of a piece of paper. That point, that part in fucking, I'll be gone in the dark, is chilling. Okay, go on.

• 24:05Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so scary.

• 24:06Georgia Hardstark?

  So.

• 24:07Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no, no, but it's just, there are things on that.

• 24:09Georgia Hardstark?

  That company.

• 24:11Karen Kilgariff?

  He was a diver, which, you know, divers have like, nuts bodies, like, like, you have to be fit like crazy, and humongous calves.

• 24:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, swimmer.

• 24:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Divers, they have to stand on their toes on a diving board, their calves are.

• 24:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Hold themselves up. And that means he was a good swimmer, probably, too, which is like, calves for days.

• 24:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 24:30Georgia Hardstark?

  So wait, tell me more about the, the company, that, what do they do?

• 24:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know, I have no idea. I just saw that it's Sierra Hoist and Crane. So it's basically, if you have anything that you need pulled up by a crane.

• 24:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I thought those were last names.

• 24:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Or pulled out, no, no, no, it's like, the two things the company does.

• 24:48Georgia Hardstark?

  They hoist stuff, and they crane shit.

• 24:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And they, they, they will drive a crane somewhere, and they will hoist the fuck out of something for you.

• 24:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude, I was like, Mr. Hoist and Mr. Crane? I wonder why they hired this teen?

• 24:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Mr. Hoist was the worst boss. He was such a dick, you couldn't be four minutes late.

• 25:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 25:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, so there's just a little bit of that, like, it's just these things, and we have no idea how they actually apply, but then your mind is going crazy of like, just for years, thinking about this stuff and not having an answer, and suddenly just being like, oh yeah. Hoist and crane means they pulled trees out of the lots where they eventually built those, you know, your, that's what my mind did. And I think, this is a, that special circumstance of like, it's as if we all love the Philadelphia Eagles.

• 25:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. I've never, I've never understood sports fans, I get it now.

• 25:30Karen Kilgariff?

  This is it. This is the feeling of, it's, you're so engaged, you've been following it for so long, you care about these people.

• 25:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Our team has had bad luck for fucking 40 years, and everyone thinks that we're cursed, and we fucking won today.

• 25:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, the Super Bowl, also, those women who appeared in the Case File three-part series, that were the victims, that spoke for themselves.

• 25:51Georgia Hardstark?

  That they're fucking, the woman whose mother was the victim, their sisters or family.

• 25:56Karen Kilgariff?

  That she, they read, that Anne Marie read, that, that was her letter, that was Debbie, from Debbie, because her mom was murdered, and that part of that book is so fucking sad.

• 26:03Georgia Hardstark?

  And Goleena, oh my god.

• 26:04Karen Kilgariff?

  When she's like, the rebellious teenage daughter, and then she comes home one day and her mother's murdered.

• 26:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Keith Harrington, and his brother speaking.

• 26:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 26:10Georgia Hardstark?

  They're those fucking players, and we were rooting for them this whole time, and they finally fucking won.

• 26:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And they had to like, they have had to endure, that motherfucker.

• 26:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Mr. Harrington.

• 26:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, no, not Mr. Harrington.

• 26:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I thought you meant that in a positive way, like, that motherfucking badass motherfucker.

• 26:25Karen Kilgariff?

  The East Area Rapist, and the Golden State Killer, allegedly Joseph D'Angelo, as police have named, by 100%, do you know what I mean? Would call them, and harass them, years afterwards.

• 26:39Georgia Hardstark?

  That's another one of the things.

• 26:40Karen Kilgariff?

  So fucked up.

• 26:41Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so fucked up. That's another one of the things, is there's that, we all watched the, it was the ID special, what was it called? It's Not Over Yet Until It's Over, remember?

• 26:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, The Golden State Killer, It's Not Over, I think.

• 26:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, yeah, so that's an incredible documentary, and actually, one, one of the guys, the like, armed, they keep calling the armchair detective or whatever, he's one of the guys on Reddit, who was like, out, like, he was the one to follow, he was telling us everything.

• 27:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Knew it all, yeah.

• 27:04Georgia Hardstark?

  So he, they posted.

• 27:05Karen Kilgariff?

  He was great in that special, too.

• 27:06Georgia Hardstark?

  He was really good. They posted a thing about, one of the calls, it was recorded, the gonna kill you recording.

• 27:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 27:14Georgia Hardstark?

  And everyone tried to figure out, in the, in the documentary, what was playing in the background, it sounded like people were talking. I went down that rabbit hole one night, and it was, they figured out what movie it was, no, no, it was a TV movie from the 1970s, and they figured out what part of the movie it was. But now they're saying, this one guy, this random fucking dude on Reddit posted, yeah, but I think I heard some like, a police scanner chatter in the background. And it was just a blip, it was just a fucking blip on Reddit, and it's fucking legit, it's true. That's what they fucking heard, not because he had a fucking scanner, because he was a fucking cop!

• 27:50Karen Kilgariff?

  He was a cop.

• 27:51Georgia Hardstark?

  I got a lot of coffee.

• 27:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm, no, no, no, it, it, look, this is like, this is an explosion, this is a fucking explosion, it's so, I just didn't think it was gonna happen, I really didn't.

• 28:04Georgia Hardstark?

  I just bought, um, I just bought a, what is it called when you monitor your heart to see how fast it's beating?

• 28:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, was it a heart monitor?

• 28:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, yeah. Should we go see?

• 28:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Like a cuff?

• 28:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 28:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Put your cuff on.

• 28:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I'm gonna go get it for us, and we're gonna see.

• 28:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, let's keep your, let's keep you medically observed. No, I just, um, it is such a strange, no, it's funny, let's just see how you're doing. But also, we have to add the coffee element into it, as well, we've all been drinking a lot of coffee.

• 28:31Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what?

• 28:32Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 28:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm not gonna do it.

• 28:34Karen Kilgariff?

  How come?

• 28:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Because it's weird.

• 28:36Karen Kilgariff?

  You don't want people knowing about your blood pressure.

• 28:39Georgia Hardstark?

  My blood pressure cuff. Well, it's hard to begin with, right now. Anyways, that's not what we're talking about.

• 28:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm just texting with my friend, Davis Kandari, who, we all lived in Sacramento at the same time, went to, we kind of all were like, dropouts, that then ended up going to Sacramento, that Sac City, was the junior college there, and he, and, uh, we had this group of friends, like, six friends, and we jokingly called ourselves, the 18th Street Hellcats.

• 29:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 29:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Because we all lived on 18th Street, but it was sarcastic, but then we actually started doing it for real.

• 29:10Georgia Hardstark?

  The best.

• 29:11Karen Kilgariff?

  The Hellcats. Um, but, he texted me this morning, and I was like, isn't it weird we lived there? Like, this is, this thing, that, that, in my, in all my egomaniacism, I'm just like, but this is a weird thing, where this is part of my history, like, I do know, I had my, like, when I said to my sister today, I, of course, called her in the morning, was like, they caught him, he's this, he's that, da, da, da, da, da, and when I said, he lives in Citrus Heights, the man they arrested lives in Citrus Heights, my sister goes, ugh, remember when we used to have to drive out to Citrus Heights, when I had to do that thing for work? And like, we started talking about, and it's what I've already told you, but there's this, there's a bleakness, or there was in the 90s, the 80s and 90s in Sacramento, and this,

• 29:51Karen Kilgariff?

  like, these long streets that went on forever, and all it was, was asphalt and mini malls, and, and a horizon that had nothing on it, and it, I thought I was fucking dying, every day in that city.

• 30:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 30:05Karen Kilgariff?

  And just that idea that, like, it almost feels, I know it's also serving, it just almost feels like I was justified a little bit, like.

• 30:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Fits.

• 30:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Bad fucking vibes, those bad vibes were real.

• 30:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I keep thinking about, so, and I'm from Irvine, where a couple, like, the later in the 80s, where, when I was a kid growing up there, uh, there was a couple incidents there, and murders and stuff, ah, it's too much.

• 30:29Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, it's a weird, like, suddenly, you're watching a movie, and suddenly you walk by in the background as an eight-year-old.

• 30:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 30:36Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the feeling.

• 30:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 30:38Karen Kilgariff?

  It's this weird, like, am I a background player in this thing? Which is just, I think that's just human, that's human nature, is to kind of be like, how is this?

• 30:45Georgia Hardstark?

  A little bit, fair enough. But it's like, it's like, well, it's the places that we thought of, and that we inhabited, that were sinister and dark, and either were not at all what we thought they were, or were exactly what they thought, we, what they, we thought they were, if we were creepy kids.

• 31:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's right. It's like, maybe we were getting a psychic feeling.

• 31:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 31:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Maybe it was just too much asphalt from my precious, you know, delicate system.

• 31:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe your brain inhaled too much asphalt. Can I give a shout out really quickly, to a murderino on Twitter? Her name is Kara Stone, it's K U R R A Lynn. She tweeted, just snuck into the press-only conference for the Golden State Killer by saying I was with SSDGM Daily News.

• 31:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Honey.

• 31:32Karen Kilgariff?

  And, and did she make fake press credentials? Or did she just fucking, she just like?

• 31:37Georgia Hardstark?

  You don't need them if you're confident.

• 31:39Karen Kilgariff?

  She just nailed it. She had her little hat with the WordPress on the hat, on the ring.

• 31:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, she says, I'm kind of freaking out because I'm wearing my murderino shirt and everyone else is dressed very nice. I don't, I didn't think this one through. Then let's see what she wrote. Uh, will you be live tweeting, blah, blah, blah. She said, I'm trying to look casual because people are staring at me.

• 31:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 31:57Georgia Hardstark?

  I love.

• 31:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Girl, she risked it all for the SSDGM news.

• 32:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Someone says you didn't lie, though.

• 32:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 32:05Georgia Hardstark?

  You are now.

• 32:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, then da, da, da, da. I think that's all she wrote. She, she probably in fucking jail, right? County jail because she, honey, we'll bail her out.

• 32:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It was, no, we will not ever. If you do something, you're on your own.

• 32:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Steven will use his money that we pay him finally.

• 32:24Karen Kilgariff?

  His birthday money.

• 32:25Georgia Hardstark?

  His birthday money.

• 32:26Karen Kilgariff?

  We got him, um, a US bond.

• 32:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Bail money.

• 32:28Karen Kilgariff?

  For his birthday.

• 32:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm. Um. Okay, that's it.

• 32:31Karen Kilgariff?

  That, well, it looked like they were having that, obviously, that press conference, like, in front of the station or whatever. So I wonder how they would have gotten it, like, you're not allowed in and you are allowed in.

• 32:42Georgia Hardstark?

  I think pretty easily.

• 32:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I, I bet she could roll on that.

• 32:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Parking lot, parking lot style.

• 32:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:46Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, yeah, I've, I've lied by saying I'm, I'm with my community college journalism team to get into, like, things before.

• 32:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice.

• 32:54Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not true. What else?

• 32:57Karen Kilgariff?

  It wasn't true that you were on the journalism team? Or the whole story you just told me wasn't true?

• 33:00Georgia Hardstark?

  No, the journalism team. I don't know.

• 33:02Karen Kilgariff?

  You're just immediately go, that's not true. I've never snuck in.

• 33:05Georgia Hardstark?

  No, that's true. Um, Howard Dean Conference.

• 33:09Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 33:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 33:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Were you there when he did the weird scream?

• 33:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Unfortunately, I was there, like, two weeks before.

• 33:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit.

• 33:15Georgia Hardstark?

  And I was like, I love this guy.

• 33:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Howard Dean?

• 33:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Howard Dean was great. And then he fucking screamed. Um, what was I going to say? Okay, if you could get one, like, how do you do it question? Or one, like, why, why this, why did he do this answered? What would it be?

• 33:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Or like confirmation? Because I have this thing of, like, the couple that was killed, which is what he got arrested for in Sacramento, because the goddamn motherfucking statute of limitations about rape ends pretty quickly, so it wouldn't matter anyways. So they got him on these murders, but so the murder.

• 33:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like that's changing in places, though, isn't it?

• 33:52Georgia Hardstark?

  One would hope.

• 33:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I think there was one story we read where they were changing it.

• 33:56Georgia Hardstark?

  They are, yeah. Anyway, so Brian and Kate Majore, they were that sweet couple who were walking their poodle. And, and it's just like a, it's a freak thing that didn't fit the MO at all, but, but was, for various reasons, getting, you know, pretty sure that it was East Area Rapist. They, they encountered him somehow and he, he chased them down and shot them in a backyard.

• 34:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 34:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, and threw their poodle in the pool.

• 34:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is creepy and weird. So maybe the poodle happened upon him and was barking, and so he threw it in the pool. They got in an altercation. Or maybe Brian fucking recognized him as a fellow cop because he was an Air Force officer.

• 34:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:36Georgia Hardstark?

  And so he had to kill them.

• 34:39Karen Kilgariff?

  This is different than this time where there was an FBI agent that.

• 34:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Chased him down.

• 34:43Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a different one, right?

• 34:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Who got, he got on a bike and then he was in a car. No, that's a different one. That's so crazy.

• 34:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And that guy got shot but didn't die, right?

• 34:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know if he got, I don't know that part.

• 34:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, yeah. Uh, it's so, because it went on so long and there's all these, there's so many of these.

• 34:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Fifty sexual assaults.

• 34:58Karen Kilgariff?

  And there are people who know every single one of these incidents. And we know, like, the people on Reddit are like MIT and we are essentially Entertainment Tonight.

• 35:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 35:07Karen Kilgariff?

  So like, if you want good, the good stuff, go onto these Reddit threads because there are people that have been working on this shit for fucking eight years.

• 35:15Georgia Hardstark?

  And, uh, I mean, I'm wondering how, how many more are now going to be tied in that don't have DNA? Or he's gonna, they said, I remember seeing, he's talking. They caught this guy last night, he's talking.

• 35:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 35:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I wonder if he's just like, you know, because a lot of these fucking killers are actually cocky at the end of the day. And they want to be like, no, no, no, that's not how it happened. And they want credit for these things that they're not getting credit for. They're being very well manipulated by detectives in the interrogation to, like, get them to spill.

• 35:43Karen Kilgariff?

  And I think in this day and age, like, truly, because it's 2018, they, all those guys know how not to do it.

• 35:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 35:51Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm sure they're very, very concerned about exactly how they interrogate him to get him to open and stay open.

• 35:57Georgia Hardstark?

  And not only that, so that it's admissible in court.

• 35:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly.

• 36:00Georgia Hardstark?

  So they're putting.

• 36:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Not fuck it up in any way.

• 36:02Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, they're putting their best guys on this one.

• 36:04Karen Kilgariff?

  And I say their best guy.

• 36:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Ladies, guys and ladies.

• 36:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Guys and ladies, but probably especially Paul Holes. If that, if Paul Holes came into the room, you did something wrong, he puts his hands on his hips underneath his blazer and starts explaining shit to you, you're just like, yes, mea culpa, Paul Holes, I gotta get this off my chest.

• 36:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Or if he's like, Joe, what did you do?

• 36:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Joe, you son of a bitch. And he does some kind of secret cop thing with him and then.

• 36:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Gets him a ring pop.

• 36:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Boom.

• 36:27Georgia Hardstark?

  His favorite ring pop. Hey, man, I brought you a ring pop.

• 36:30Karen Kilgariff?

  The ring pop theory.

• 36:32Georgia Hardstark?

  No, the grape is your favorite? Oh, my God.

• 36:35Karen Kilgariff?

  You love grape.

• 36:36Georgia Hardstark?

  You love grape.

• 36:37Karen Kilgariff?

  It's also because he's so old. To me, that was the other part of not having hope. I mean, just in terms of, like, there's, like, if he did all these things and he's not doing them anymore, there's no way he's still alive.

• 36:50Georgia Hardstark?

  And not even a 72-year-old like my dad Marty. My dad Marty looks fucking great for 72, he's got a lot of time left. That guy's a fucking, this Joe guy is an old fucking piece of shit.

• 37:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it looks like it, something's been weighing on him.

• 37:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe, yeah.

• 37:04Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just over the years.

• 37:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Stressing him out.

• 37:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, my dad's 78 and I think he looks better than that guy.

• 37:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Your dad looks better than my dad. Your dad looks better than me.

• 37:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, keep it healthy, you gotta keep it healthy, you gotta walk every day.

• 37:18Georgia Hardstark?

  The trick is don't have baggage hanging over your head, like, being a fucking rapist and murderer.

• 37:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Being like a serial rapist to a degree where I think, and also it's, I understand that Anne Marie was like, quit trying to say that a bunch of other people did this work and we didn't do it because we've been doing the work. I get that.

• 37:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Or like, even, I wonder if even Michelle McNamara, they, they want to say, thank you for bringing it to the public eye. But like, giving her credit might even piss them off somehow a little bit.

• 37:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Well.

• 37:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Some of them.

• 37:49Karen Kilgariff?

  It takes away from the people who do it for a living, maybe, but.

• 37:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Or how many, yeah.

• 37:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I just wish one person had said, before Michelle McNamara started writing articles, doing all this shit, writing for fucking different magazines, saying, we need to call him the Golden State Killer. We need to collect all these things together.

• 38:09Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna interview everyone. I'm gonna go to all of the scenes. I'm gonna fucking.

• 38:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm gonna make these cops talk to each other.

• 38:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Dedicate my life to this.

• 38:15Karen Kilgariff?

  And there was an element of pressure from her. They're not gonna talk about being pressured, of course, by a citizen.

• 38:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 38:22Karen Kilgariff?

  But I think that her bringing it to the media made them go, yes, we are working on it. And like, maybe that is not always a positive thing with the police and, and like data miners and, and armchair experts. But at the same time, I, no one was fucking talking about it before. And this was a thing that, like, of all the murders and rape cases in the nation, it was obscure. It was not well-known.

• 38:48Georgia Hardstark?

  If this fucking hashtag right now was, uh, what was it? Erons, Erons? East Area Rapist, uh, what was it? East Area Rapist?

• 38:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Original Night Sucker.

• 38:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Original Nights, it's, so it's Erons. If this fucking hashtag was Erons right now, do you think you'd be half as fucking blown up as Golden State? Hashtag Golden State Killer?

• 39:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 39:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is like, the fucking, she was, they were right, a beautiful catchy name. Go listen to, um, there's a three-part podcast called All Be Gone in the Dark that just explains with all the players how this book came to be. It's really well-done, it's a really quick listen if you just need to catch up.

• 39:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Get all the info.

• 39:22Georgia Hardstark?

  And one of them is that, that she, that they knew that this needed a fucking better name, you know?

• 39:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Because it needed to reflect that he fucking terrorized the entire state in all these counties. There was no jurisdiction that was, was more important, although, you know, Sacramento obviously is the grandfather and the original hunting ground and all that. But that all these other things happened and it had to be cohesively approached. And I do think that, and maybe that's just because that's the, that's what I like.

• 39:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 39:50Karen Kilgariff?

  But I think her going around and, and getting evidence herself and just being like, fine, I'll do it. Just copy it for me, made everyone else go like, no, no, no, we got it. Yeah, like, she wasn't gonna stop.

• 40:01Georgia Hardstark?

  She fucking, she branded this fucking thing.

• 40:04Karen Kilgariff?

  She really did.

• 40:05Georgia Hardstark?

  And that's.

• 40:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Brilliantly.

• 40:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, brilliantly branded.

• 40:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And then wrote about it. I know, we've, we talked about it so much, but I just, it's like, it's like, um, I called my, I told my friend today, oh, it's fact prose, because it's as dry as facts can be. She then turns it into this thing where suddenly you're looking at a picture, you're not reading a sentence.

• 40:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Poetic.

• 40:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I mean, incredible.

• 40:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Words that I would never use but fit so perfectly. I don't know what that's called, good writing. Um, you know what I did last night? I was like, okay, finally, I'm just refreshing everything, it's the same information, it's fucking three in the morning, there's nothing new.

• 40:41Georgia Hardstark?

  I took Xanax, which is, I never do anymore. And I knew I had to.

• 40:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 40:46Georgia Hardstark?

  And then I

• 40:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, you were almost up for 24 hours.

• 40:48Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. Yeah. Then I put in my headphones, which I always do to fall asleep. I've been listening to, uh, I needed something nice and light lately because I've been listening to fucking All Be Gone in the Dark at night. And it's been scaring the shit out of me.

• 40:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 40:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Been listening to fucking Douglas Adams lately, but I fucking put on All Be Gone in the Fucking Dark in my headphones and fell asleep to it.

• 41:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 41:08Georgia Hardstark?

  And I, it was awesome.

• 41:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause it's a different story now.

• 41:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking, I was not freaking out. I was not scared. My heart was fucking happy as I listened to it and fell asleep.

• 41:18Karen Kilgariff?

  And as Mr., is it Heatherington or Harrington?

• 41:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Harrington.

• 41:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Mr. Harrington said,

• 41:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Bruce Harrington.

• 41:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Bruce Harrington, the brother of one of the victims and his wife.

• 41:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Those victims get to, for the first time in fucking 40 something years, they get to rest easy.

• 41:34Georgia Hardstark?

  And what a, I mean, what a relief that he's not dead.

• 41:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 41:37Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 41:38Karen Kilgariff?

  What a satisfying like,

• 41:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Like it would be great if they found him and he was dead. Glad we fucking

• 41:42Karen Kilgariff?

  At least found him. Exactly. That would have been totally satisfying, but this is a different thing. And, and if they handle it right, which I believe in these people that they will. And they're so by the book and they're, I mean, it was funny how crazy, uh, careful they started being. It's like, why take questions if you're not going to answer any questions? Well, also how about Anne Marie getting super pissed when they're like, is it related to Mr. Cruel? And she was like, uh, no.

• 42:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 42:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Where it's just like, wait, what's the problem?

• 42:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. All these Australians are like, we're just waiting to hear our guy's been caught too.

• 42:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Because there are so many, there's so many, um, you know, I read the same article everybody else did, but I was surprised. I didn't know there were that many MO matches.

• 42:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. The eating, uh, like sticking around and eating.

• 42:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. And surveilling for like weeks and months beforehand and all that. Oh, it's so creepy.

• 42:32Georgia Hardstark?

  So creepy.

• 42:33Karen Kilgariff?

  So crazy.

• 42:35Georgia Hardstark?

  What about, what else? What else would you want to know?

• 42:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Um,

• 42:39Georgia Hardstark?

  I want to know what the connections with the other locations are. Obviously, especially Irvine. I already texted my dad and said, hey, did you know an ex-cop? In Irvine in 1986 ish.

• 42:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Such a good idea. You're like, did you ever hang out and talk to this guy at the donut shop?

• 42:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure. Maybe.

• 42:56Karen Kilgariff?

  I didn't, that was a slur against cops. It was the first place I

• 42:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Like where we want to be right now.

• 43:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Where would Marty hang out? Like a Whole Foods type of place?

• 43:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Mothers, they were called Mothers Market back then.

• 43:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause he's a little bit of a hippie, right?

• 43:07Georgia Hardstark?

  He's a fucking carob eating hippie. Kidding me?

• 43:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Now was Janet a hippie or was she just playing ball in the seventies?

• 43:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, they were just like the health food fanatic hippies, smoking pot hippies. Yeah, but they weren't, they were, uh, they were yuppies.

• 43:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 43:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. They were totally yuppies.

• 43:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Got it. Got it.

• 43:27Georgia Hardstark?

  They were, can you be a yuppie and not have money? They had the, they lived the yuppie lifestyle.

• 43:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, like, if you could see this written, it would be fuppies, but faux yuppies.

• 43:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Faux yuppies.

• 43:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Faux yuppies.

• 43:42Georgia Hardstark?

  That's exactly right.

• 43:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Faux yuppies. It would still have A U X, but fuppies.

• 43:48Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I can't even think of what, I want to hear of those, those near miss times. We know of the ones, but like in, cause I read that book by one of the other investigators. And he wrote a like self-published book that's that thick. It's so long and crazy. But it was basically just his firsthand experience of over and over again, getting called to these houses where the victims are sitting on the couch crying and they had this horrible thing happen to them. And it's, it's so incredible. One of the times he talks about was a time where police pulled a guy over the morning after an attack. He had all this weird shit in his car and they let him go anyway. And he got on the freeway north and basically toward Auburn.

• 44:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 44:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. And that part of the story, it's just like they, no one knows. And that, that was like a my thing, alleged fucking all this other illegal shit. But it's like, if he was a cop and they saw him in his car, did they just go, oh, it's that guy. Go ahead. You're fine.

• 44:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Or like when you get, when you're a cop and you get pulled over, you fucking hand, when they ask you for your license, you hand them your fucking cop ID and they're like, oh, go ahead.

• 44:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. It's over. That's not, there's no discussion.

• 44:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Questioning it'd be, it'd be fucking disrespectful.

• 44:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Which I wonder if he kept all this shit around him. So even if he was kicked off, the fucking dude

• 45:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 45:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Still dressed up like him.

• 45:05Georgia Hardstark?

  And the prowling, maybe he wasn't prowling. Maybe he was fucking walking around dressed. Well, I guess someone would have said they saw a cop dressed.

• 45:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. A cop by himself would be weird.

• 45:14Georgia Hardstark?

  A cop car might be, no.

• 45:17Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know. I would want to know also about the real estate element. That thing where there was a guy that used to show up at open houses that would be across from places. Or, I mean, that whole part is, I don't even know. I just want to know everything.

• 45:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Me too. I think we will.

• 45:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you know what they were saying? Um, I was going to ask you because they were talking, but they were trying to get, at this press conference, they were just trying to get Anne Marie and our boy, uh, um, Scott Jones, who I'm positive I drank with at Poppy, Popeyes in the late eighties. Popeyes, the worst bar in America. Uh, he looks so familiar to me. He's like every guy I had a crush on in Sacramento. But, um, they were talking, they were trying to get them to answer questions about that surveillance time.

• 46:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 46:03Karen Kilgariff?

  How exciting is it to think about those cops where they were in the lab? They were like, it's a fucking match. Now go surveil him or get the, here's the thing. We need the thing to match it. It wouldn't be the match first.

• 46:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 46:15Karen Kilgariff?

  They would go to get the match.

• 46:16Georgia Hardstark?

  This guy looks good.

• 46:17Karen Kilgariff?

  This guy looks good. It's ding, it's 18 points on the 20 point chart.

• 46:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 46:22Karen Kilgariff?

  And then two guys go sit in a car waiting. Now tell me, Georgia, you are now one of those guys.

• 46:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Or ladies.

• 46:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Or ladies, because anything can happen in this day and age.

• 46:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Guys, we mean people.

• 46:33Karen Kilgariff?

  We, yeah. So you are a police person that's gotten sent to surveil this very good looking suspect for as long as it takes so that he comes out and spits on the lawn.

• 46:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 46:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Throws his cup in the ditch.

• 46:48Georgia Hardstark?

  He's a litterer.

• 46:49Karen Kilgariff?

  See, like, what do you see? What's your dream thing of how that surveillance happened? That they snuck his DNA?

• 46:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 46:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Or, or legally acquired?

• 47:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, I mean, it's real, I feel like it seems so simple. And the most obvious one is if he's a smoker. But the problem is, say he is a smoker and he puts a cigarette out, uh, in an ashtray. Well, there's no way to prove that that's his actual butt unless it's a brand new clean cigarette, cigarette, ashtray. But you know, he, maybe he's a smoker and he flicks his fucking cigarette. That guy doesn't look like a fucking health nut to me. So maybe he's a smoker.

• 47:23Karen Kilgariff?

  He definitely looks like a smoker and a person that drinks a huge, a big gulp all day long.

• 47:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely a big gulp. So, I mean, you know, they have their ways. The spitting on the ground is good, but it'd have to be like, I remember there was one case where they did the spitting on the ground, but the only way they were able to use it is because it had just rained. And so the spit was sitting on top of the, the rain and the cement. So it wasn't like part of the ground because then it'd be like, well, this is

• 47:49Karen Kilgariff?

  They couldn't introduce all the other spit and weird shit that was there.

• 47:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. Exactly. Or maybe they arrested him on something else and got his DNA through that way. Like, you know what I mean? Maybe they, but it like, but he probably was so careful.

• 48:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 48:07Georgia Hardstark?

  And there's no way that they would have been like, we got you for a stop. You ran a stop sign. Hey, can we get your DNA by the way?

• 48:14Karen Kilgariff?

  No, not that guy.

• 48:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Then you'll never speak to that guy again. He's going to lawyer up.

• 48:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Not the guy who, uh, was caught for shoplifting a dog repellent and a hammer. And then when they said, you have to go under review for the Auburn Police Department, said, no thanks. And just took being dismissed.

• 48:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 48:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Because he didn't want to even talk about it.

• 48:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Well, so allegedly from what Reddit has told me that he has a, two daughters that were born in 81 and 86. So of course they're my ageish. I looked them up on Facebook. Are we friends? I don't think we are, but I want to know about them. And did they read All Be Gone in the Dark? Did they ever say to mom and dad, hey, were you guys freaking out that, at that time of, you know, at that time? You guys, we lived here.

• 48:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause that has happened for other killers when their children suspect them.

• 49:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Really?

• 49:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Or family members suspect them. Yeah. Isn't that the, um, the happy face killer's daughter is the reason? Like she's the reason.

• 49:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Article was, she wrote that article recently? What's it called? Like?

• 49:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know, but she did have a TV show for a little while where she would go and meet other, like she interviewed BTK's wife. You know, she would go and talk to families. And I would say this too.

• 49:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 49:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, nobody should be in any way contacted, obviously.

• 49:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely not.

• 49:31Karen Kilgariff?

  But like, we know that there's all this weird access these days for people.

• 49:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 49:35Karen Kilgariff?

  It would be living hell to be related to this person today.

• 49:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you know they, they've already tracked down the Yelp review of what they're assuming, Reddit is assuming is his wife's business.

• 49:47Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 49:48Georgia Hardstark?

  And there's some like really negative Yelp review that what a fucking psycho she is.

• 49:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 49:53Georgia Hardstark?

  But it's like, who knows where she is, what's going on? Who wrote this review? If it's even her actual business, if it's even actually his wife. But the article is called, The Struggle to Find, My Struggle to Find Peace as the Daughter of a Serial Killer on Huffington Post, which I keep meaning to read.

• 50:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's for Smiley Face Killer?

• 50:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. One of, yeah.

• 50:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 50:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, wow.

• 50:16Georgia Hardstark?

  What about you? What is your, your, um, you're sitting in the interrogation room with him.

• 50:25Georgia Hardstark?

  You have one fucking shot.

• 50:28Georgia Hardstark?

  What, what, what, uh, what would, what, uh, tactic would you take?

• 50:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I don't, I couldn't do it. I find like these criminals so abhorrent. Like I just don't even want to be anywhere in near the building. But I would want Paul, if I could be inside Paul Holes or like just watch as what he did.

• 50:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Would have your DNA inside, DNA inside of you. Right?

• 50:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you being dirty about Paul Holes?

• 50:58Georgia Hardstark?

  I am. If you could be, if you could be surrounded, your heart and spirit and smells and tastes with Paul, inside Paul Holes.

• 51:07Karen Kilgariff?

  If I could just surveil Paul Holes. This is, we can't keep doing this, but.

• 51:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Interrogate Steven like he's the killer.

• 51:15Karen Kilgariff?

  This improv is so weird.

• 51:17Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Just interrogate Steven.

• 51:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I just, okay. So you're saying you were at Margaritaville, but you don't seem hungover at all today? Or that you have sugar poisoning from?

• 51:28Georgia Hardstark?

  What kind of margarita did you get?

• 51:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. I got the spicy, the hot, hot, hot.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  And I'm very hungover.

• 51:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you're pulling it off really nicely.

• 51:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Steven.

• 51:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that that glow about you?

• 51:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It's that thirty one year old about him.

• 51:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's right.

• 51:41Georgia Hardstark?

  You're not hungover yet.

• 51:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking son of a-

• 51:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Steven, there's bacon and fucking bagels right here.

• 51:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Steven throws up on all the-

• 51:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Go throw up on it, oh.

• 51:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, you're-

• 51:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you press play? Did you remember to press play?

• 51:53Karen Kilgariff?

  You drank margaritas that were spicy.

• 51:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I love spicy margaritas.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  It has like jalapenos and stuff.

• 51:58Karen Kilgariff?

  The best, with salt.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, the best.

• 52:01Karen Kilgariff?

  I've such an ulcer.

• 52:03Georgia Hardstark?

  You're old, you're not, you're old, but you're, you don't-

• 52:05Karen Kilgariff?

  It's too late, you already said it and it's recorded.

• 52:08Georgia Hardstark?

  You are an old drinker, meaning like you weren't around.

• 52:12Karen Kilgariff?

  You just did it again.

• 52:14Karen Kilgariff?

  You're a fucking old drinker.

• 52:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. Oh, I know. You missed the period of like, good drinks.

• 52:20Karen Kilgariff?

  A hundred percent. No, I burned out. I burned out on like Bartles and James. I used to get acid stomach from wine coolers.

• 52:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:27Karen Kilgariff?

  That's how bad it was.

• 52:28Georgia Hardstark?

  You didn't get to drink fucking classy shit with-

• 52:31Karen Kilgariff?

  No, the mixology was far off. No one had a fucking curly ass mustache when I was in bars. It was all free popcorn and like fucking Miller Lite in a small glass. It was dark shit. And it was in Sacramento.

• 52:43Georgia Hardstark?

  And smoking allowed.

• 52:45Karen Kilgariff?

  And smoke, please smoke, waitresses handing you lit cigarettes. That never happened. But yeah, no, it was like, it was as, it was like it was a hundred years ago.

• 52:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 52:54Karen Kilgariff?

  When I think about all, all of those times.

• 52:57Georgia Hardstark?

  They were like, here, become an alcoholic.

• 52:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so easy.

• 53:00Georgia Hardstark?

  We want to, we want to make it happen as in, but when it's like nowadays, they're like, here, every drink is fourteen fucking dollars. So you can only be an alcoholic if you're, if you're rich as fuck. And if you come anywhere near us with a cigarette, we're gonna murder you.

• 53:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. You, it's like you have to be some kind of a connoisseur these days to be an alcoholic, which I just don't have the energy for.

• 53:19Georgia Hardstark?

  And you see an alcoholic and you're like, oh, that guy must be rich.

• 53:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Cause it, cause you're buying drinks that have those huge ice, ice cubes in them that are like-

• 53:27Georgia Hardstark?

  And they-

• 53:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Designer ice cubes.

• 53:28Georgia Hardstark?

  And they measure everything. So like, you're not, it's like an ounce and a half of alcohol.

• 53:32Karen Kilgariff?

  And you're like, it doesn't matter, I'm just gonna swallow it really fast. Like giving my dog a treat where she, I look at George and go, please just chew this twice. Like, please. And she'll just go, like, I'll give her leftover steak from like a dinner we were at. And I hold it out and she swall, she inhales it.

• 53:47Georgia Hardstark?

  She doesn't even taste it.

• 53:48Karen Kilgariff?

  She, I'm like, bite it twice, you'll love the taste.

• 53:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Even better. Elvis does that too with cookies. Couple of people had the great idea that this needs to be on MFM. Do you need a ride crossover? Chris Fairbanks is just driving us to fucking Sacramento.

• 54:02Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, we could take the entire drive up to Sacramento to explain to Chris Fairbanks what the entire case is and what's happening. He's being, um, I never heard of this before.

• 54:09Georgia Hardstark?

  And I don't care. And I still don't care.

• 54:11Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm not interested.

• 54:18Karen Kilgariff?

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 54:30Speaker 01

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 54:34Speaker 03

  Nelson swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  That's one of the places for Bible.

• 54:38Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  Ryan Phillippe, 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 54:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today. To help find a home that fits where you are in life. Or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 55:13Speaker 04

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• 55:43Georgia Hardstark?

  And we are back.

• 55:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 55:45Georgia Hardstark?

  I remember most of, I remember seeing the tweet that said this happened, looking it up, realizing it was real. I was, I was on Moore Park where it meets up Riverside on the edge of Toluca Lake. And that's where I sat at that red light texting you and being like, you, what's, or like, guess what?

• 56:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 56:07Georgia Hardstark?

  And I can see all those moments kind of after that where it was like, the before of the news and the after of the news. I, yeah, and I was listening to this and it's like, the amount that I started digging online after that, just wanting more and more and more information.

• 56:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 56:25Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, it's disappointing that to this day, we don't have a ton of information about it. I know it's like, I just thought there'd be so much more that came out. That would come out, like other victims and other crimes and-

• 56:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. It would be incredibly satisfying to go over all of the theories.

• 56:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 56:41Karen Kilgariff?

  And where, you know what I mean? It's like this one people really bought into because da, da, da. Or he looked like this, or like the way people got off track and back on track.

• 56:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Just answers for what things meant.

• 56:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 56:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Like the dog smell and the Bonnie, all those things that we just like, became obsessed with.

• 57:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 57:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's do some updates, want to?

• 57:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure. So detectives originally got the DNA to test from Golden State Killer's car door while he was shopping at Hobby Lobby. And they were able to match that with semen gathered from old crime scenes. And then they got the second sample from a tissue in, that was in a garbage can outside of his house. And then, once they had that, they arrested him the next day.

• 57:28Georgia Hardstark?

  And then on April 24th, 2018, Sacramento County Sheriff's deputies arrested former police officer Joseph James D'Angelo at his house in Citrus Heights, California. And he was famously identified using investigative genetic genealogy.

• 57:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Prosecutors ended up charging D'Angelo with thirteen counts of first degree murder and thirteen counts of kidnapping to commit robbery. He couldn't be charged with sexual assaults or burglaries because of the statute of limitations, which is kind of insane because as the East Area Rapist, what, there was over fifty rapes and attacks?

• 58:03Georgia Hardstark?

  And he just remained hidden long enough.

• 58:05Karen Kilgariff?

  He waited it out.

• 58:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I fucking can't. I can't.

• 58:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 58:09Georgia Hardstark?

  In June 2020, as part of a plea deal to spare him from the death penalty, D'Angelo pleaded guilty to all twenty six charges against him. He was sentenced to multiple consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole.

• 58:20Karen Kilgariff?

  HBO made a docu-series in 2020 of All Be Gone in the Dark. It includes Paul Holes, it includes everybody basically around, they had cameras with Patton.

• 58:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 58:34Karen Kilgariff?

  At, as he was trying to go on this book tour because Michelle had died and, and the book was coming out.

• 58:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 58:41Karen Kilgariff?

  And they were trying, and that's where they were. Well, I mean, that idea that they found out with documentary filmmakers with them because they were trying to do something else for her book.

• 58:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 58:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, it's the craziest, I mean, we've talked about all of this, but it's the most larger than life, like movie script of an experience.

• 59:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely. And as of 2026, D'Angelo remains incarcerated in California. He's eighty years old. Also update, every time I see Paul Holes, I fucking try to get like more information out of him. But, you know.

• 59:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 59:17Georgia Hardstark?

  It's just like, yeah, we want more.

• 59:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. It's almost like everybody got what they wanted, which was for this monster to be stopped.

• 59:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 59:23Karen Kilgariff?

  And, but then, it doesn't go into like, and now he's going to completely admit to things. He's going to explain things, like you don't get satisfaction.

• 59:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 59:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Ultimately, or that's not part of it. It's like, just the fact that it stopped and the fact that he's identified is, I guess, the most we get to have from that.

• 59:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Hopefully that's enough for the victims' families and the victims to be able to move on, which is the real point, but you know, we just, we want to know.

• 59:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. You know what I also remember is us, when we watched that news conference, every moment of it was so unsatisfying. Like, that's where, I guess, I thought some of that payoff would come, or some of that satisfaction we were just talking about not being there. But like, watching them all congratulate each other.

• 1:00:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:00:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And, and not talk about Paul Holes, not talk about Michelle McNamara, kind of basically pointing it all back toward these, you know, police departments. It was just such a weird thing where it's just like, oh, wait a sec. So we're not gonna hear about how or why.

• 1:00:29Georgia Hardstark?

  And what they missed.

• 1:00:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, of course, they're not gonna talk about, well, you know,

• 1:00:35Georgia Hardstark?

  saying that the only way we could ever get him was from genetic genealogy. I'm sure there are ways and there was evidence and there were clues where they could have caught him before he had done a lot of the crimes.

• 1:00:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:00:46Georgia Hardstark?

  They're never gonna talk about, like, that's what I want to hear is like, did you know he was the cop, a cop? And could you have looked into this and, you know, did you, you knew these like little things about him?

• 1:00:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Or even just taking some, which of course, this wasn't the expectation, but it would have been satisfying for them to talk about the interdepartmental lack of communication that, that stood in the way of solving these crimes. That stood in the way of them connecting Southern California crimes to Northern California crimes. Like, all those things that, it felt like, for some reason, in my mind, I thought that that would be addressed. So it's like, and so can we stop doing that from now on? So that this kind of bullshit, like, they're all baseball teams and your team has to win over another. It's like, you're standing in the way of a potentially like stopping monsters and-

• 1:01:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:01:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Executing justice.

• 1:01:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause you want to be the one and it just, and also the question of like, was he at that conference in the audience? Where the guy says something about a man being in the house, he would never let that happen?

• 1:01:48Karen Kilgariff?

  I'd never let that happen.

• 1:01:49Georgia Hardstark?

  And he becomes the next target?

• 1:01:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52Georgia Hardstark?

  We, we still don't know if he was there, or if it's just a random act, or what.

• 1:01:55Karen Kilgariff?

  But I mean, it, it couldn't have been because that's the exact kind of monster he, like the creep that he was. It's like, oh, I'll, I was there amongst you and I'm gonna let you know by this horrible attack.

• 1:02:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And then there was also like, there was people who said they heard another voice during the attack.

• 1:02:14Karen Kilgariff?

  A second voice?

• 1:02:15Georgia Hardstark?

  There are people who said they heard a second voice during the attack and they would steal, he would steal things or, you know, rob them of really specific things, like household things.

• 1:02:26Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean,

• 1:02:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm gonna suggest something very creepy.

• 1:02:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Karen Kilgariff?

  He's the second voice.

• 1:02:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Ah, yeah.

• 1:02:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Because that's, and I'm definitely pulling that from like a horror, like a psychological thriller from the eighties or nineties.

• 1:02:37Georgia Hardstark?

  He would talk to himself, for sure.

• 1:02:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, and it would make perfect sense that if it's like,

• 1:02:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:42Karen Kilgariff?

  in your doing voice, I mean,

• 1:02:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:44Karen Kilgariff?

  he's all up here.

• 1:02:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, so.

• 1:02:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, or like, was there other targets that, like, did he have notes of who he was gonna target?

• 1:02:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Or like, people that were after the fact, finding stuff under those couch cushions? That kind of thing, where it's like, you know there's those stories.

• 1:03:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:03:01Karen Kilgariff?

  People are like, oh, there was all these footprints in our backyard, and then it happened five doors down.

• 1:03:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Or did he know the victim that he targeted before he targeted that person?

• 1:03:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Right, there was the whole real estate theory.

• 1:03:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, and then there was like a boat, a photo of her with, on a boat, I mean, yeah.

• 1:03:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Crazy, I guess we'll never know.

• 1:03:19Karen Kilgariff?

  No, we'll never be satisfied.

• 1:03:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Unless you get Paul Holes drunk and make him tell us everything. But I'm not, I'm, that's not, I'll do that.

• 1:03:28Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, I think we have plans to do that in, in December.

• 1:03:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Definitely.

• 1:03:31Karen Kilgariff?

  But yeah, I mean, it was like, we got dropped into a movie.

• 1:03:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:03:36Karen Kilgariff?

  On that, like, day and all the days after that.

• 1:03:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, well, thank God he got caught.

• 1:03:42Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, we'd never rename this episode,

• 1:03:44Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:03:44Karen Kilgariff?

  because this is clearly what it is, but if we wanna go through and just name some, kind of, some great lines that we had during it, too much asphalt, which is the feeling I've always had about Sacramento.

• 1:03:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, beyond fired, when Stephen missed the Golden State Killer news because he was at Margaritaville, remember, and you said, you are beyond fired.

• 1:04:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Stephen loves Margaritaville.

• 1:04:10Georgia Hardstark?

  He does.

• 1:04:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Like,

• 1:04:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Unironically.

• 1:04:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah, it's like, the way some people are like, they have their mom's favorite casserole. Stephen's just like, an afternoon drink at Margaritaville in Universal Studios.

• 1:04:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Love that.

• 1:04:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, you had that good line, this is my WrestleMania.

• 1:04:23Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right, that's.

• 1:04:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Kind of, I would, I think that fits.

• 1:04:26Georgia Hardstark?

  This is my WrestleMania, all right.

• 1:04:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, what else is there to say?

• 1:04:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Nothing.

• 1:04:30Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been this week's episode of Rewind.

• 1:04:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's say goodbye from 2018.

• 1:04:41Karen Kilgariff?

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:04:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:04:57Speaker 03

  Allison swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  That's one of the places for Bible.

• 1:05:02Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville, all new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:05:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today. To help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little closer to where you wanna be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started. Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat.

• 1:05:49Georgia Hardstark?

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• 1:06:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I have to say, maybe we can close it up, but I'm like, honored that we get to be a voice in the background of this. And like, Michelle McNamara, as we've, I've been, we've been such a fan of hers, a fangirl of a fangirl crime. And like, I'm just honored that we get to even talk about this.

• 1:06:29Karen Kilgariff?

  What a, yeah, what a magical thing that, in real time, not, it's not like, 20 years from now where we get back together to talk about, that they finally found the guy.

• 1:06:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:06:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Or they finally figure out who it is, it's just like, this is shocking, it's thrilling, and yeah, kudos to fucking Michelle McNamara and her, it like, people keep using the phrase dogged persistence, but I think there's something, it's, it's like this righteousness and this, like, kind of call for justice that I think we all feel. And I think most people are good in that way, where they don't want other people to suffer like this.

• 1:07:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:11Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's what's cool, it's like, all those people at that press conference, everybody that's talking about it, everybody is just like, no more of this shit, no more pretending rape doesn't matter, no more pretending that you, that, you know, all the, all these weird old things are really going by the wayside, these old attitudes, all that kinda stuff. And it's like building a new fucking tomorrow, as corny as that sounds.

• 1:07:35Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I agree.

• 1:07:37Karen Kilgariff?

  People in Sacramento now, who are loving Sacramento and wanna defend Sacramento, you don't have to, because I get towns change, whatever, but I also get to have my opinion about this, the very short amount of time that I suffered greatly in that town. Every day I was suffering, I was a goth in the summer.

• 1:07:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It sucked shit, and I couldn't go anywhere and be happy.

• 1:07:58Georgia Hardstark?

  We're gonna, we're.

• 1:07:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It doesn't mean anything about you or your family or your fucking grandparents.

• 1:08:02Georgia Hardstark?

  And we weren't even, our, we weren't even planning, our, our tour agent wasn't even planning on sending us to Sacramento, and we insisted because it's become this running joke.

• 1:08:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, because Sacramento merinos are like, showing up, and they're like, they're like, come here, we love it, we love you, so, we love that, it's, it's been so fun, but, but you cannot change my mind about nineties Sacramento.

• 1:08:26Georgia Hardstark?

  I think they love it.

• 1:08:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I know what I wanted to say.

• 1:08:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. Uh, and I love, what I love about Reddit, about what, about this press conference, about, and what I'm sure Michelle would say, is that no one is saying, I knew it, I took credit for this, it's because I, I said this, I said that, it's this, it's, it's wanted to be solved by so many people, and that's so much bigger than anyone's ego. They want it to be solved for the victims, and for the victims' families and friends, and to put an end to this fucking monster and bring them to justice.

• 1:08:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Georgia Hardstark?

  And so I, I love that this fight is not for, um, for credit, or being the one who solves it. It's about justice, and I, I know Michelle would be saying something to us along the lines of, no, no, no, it has nothing to do with my, you know?

• 1:09:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:09:14Georgia Hardstark?

  She would be demureing, and she would be, rightfully so, giving a huge amount of credit to the detectives who have worked on this for years and years, and, you know, and wanted just as much to solve this passionately as we did, so.

• 1:09:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Hundred percent, and the way that sheriff was saying at the beginning, um, I wrote his name down, Scott Jones, my party friend Scott Jones, um, that he was saying in the beginning, he, when he became the sheriff, the person who was the sheriff before him was like, this case is huge and important, and you have to work on it. So, there are all those people that, over the years, when they were just trying to go place to place with no technology, with everything was, writing, writing everything out by hand and putting it into a file.

• 1:09:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I saw something that was like, one page of files from back then takes, you know, three weeks for us to like, translate. That's so wrong, but you know what I mean.

• 1:10:06Karen Kilgariff?

  To put into a computer?

• 1:10:07Georgia Hardstark?

  To put into your computer, like, one file takes, we have to, yeah.

• 1:10:12Karen Kilgariff?

  It just takes forever to, to make it.

• 1:10:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe it's one, let's cut that out.

• 1:10:16Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know, it was great. But basically, it takes fucking forever, and it's tons of work, and it's really hard work.

• 1:10:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Back then.

• 1:10:23Karen Kilgariff?

  It's all paperwork, and those people suffered, the, the police who worked on it suffered too.

• 1:10:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, they, they're the ones that had to go and, and suffer by not catching him, and by meeting more victims, and there's so much, it just is so incredible that there gets to be, at least, it's not closure, but it is this, like, it's next steps.

• 1:10:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 1:10:46Karen Kilgariff?

  It's real next steps.

• 1:10:47Georgia Hardstark?

  It's finally, it's fucking finally.

• 1:10:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck, guys.

• 1:10:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, thanks for listening, let us know what you think.

• 1:10:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, uh, this is really cool.

• 1:10:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm thrilled.

• 1:10:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Me too.

• 1:10:58Karen Kilgariff?

  All right, stay sexy.

• 1:10:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't get murdered.

• 1:11:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Bye.

• 1:11:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Bye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:11:05Georgia Hardstark?

  There it is. Goodbye.

• 1:11:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Bye. Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 1:11:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20th, 2027, for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the Beach Club at Bimini.

• 1:11:21Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wisecrack, for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet and greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 1:11:37Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 1:11:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot. Goodbye. Okay, laundry stinks, literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear, not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re-wearable or filthy they are. Or just use Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real-life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry the, quote, "right way," Deep Clean will knock it out. I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm & Hammer Deep Clean, number one claim based on total wash loads sold.

• 1:12:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast, the true crime comedy podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I could talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.