Sharon Horgan

Sharon Horgan (The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, Bad Sisters, Catastrophe) is an Emmy Award-nominated actor, writer, and producer. Sharon joins the Armchair Expert to discuss being one of three middle children, growing up with a tough publican father that went into the turkey trade, and an early approach by a famous director in a café to audition for one of his films. Sharon and Dax talk about having great recall for lines but basically no other information, the joy-filled buzz of her first time taking something from the page to the screen, and the sometimes tricky transition from set life back to home life. Sharon explains the unexpected rewards that can come from going in a different direction than originally intended, hitting the chemistry lottery and winning a Peabody for Bad Sisters, and the big swings taken in The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Horgan and I'm joined by Monica Sharon.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:06Dax Shepard?

  Hello. I sure hope people are as obsessed with Sharon as I am. When I saw Bad Sisters, I was like, this person intrigues me to no end.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:17Dax Shepard?

  And then only to find out she had created the show and wrote on it.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 0:21Dax Shepard?

  Is incredible. Sharon Horgan is an Emmy nominated actor, writer, director and producer. Bad Sisters, Catastrophe, Motherland, Together, This Way Up. And she's in the new limited series on Hulu, The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  Yes, if you listen to that episode, you will have heard about Sharon as well.

• 0:42Dax Shepard?

  We've never interviewed someone who's created this many TV shows and we've interviewed some famous showrunners.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Hmm, that's true.

• 0:48Dax Shepard?

  She's the most prolific.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Shonda.

• 0:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, we did have Shonda.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  All right, they're both great women. They're both great women.

• 0:55Dax Shepard?

  We love women, we don't need to make them compete.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  We're not pitting a woman against another woman.

• 0:59Dax Shepard?

  We don't need to body shame anyone.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  That's right, we're not doing it.

• 1:01Dax Shepard?

  Please enjoy Sharon Horgan. We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns. You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that, too.

• 1:20Speaker 01

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• 1:33Dax Shepard?

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• 1:47Speaker 01

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• 1:51Dax Shepard?

  It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine and I'm gonna tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know, mm, I'm gonna get that little vitamin buzz.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Well, that's also the thing, when you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.

• 2:08Dax Shepard?

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• 2:36Speaker 01

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• 2:47Dax Shepard?

  That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.

• 2:51Speaker 01

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• 3:07Dax Shepard?

  Increasingly so.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  I need it. I have to have it. And I heard that you're supposed to sleep at a cold temp. Mm hmm. Optimal sleep. It's very, very helpful.

• 3:18Dax Shepard?

  She is not wrong. I have one too, and it's been such a game changer for sleep. And I love that they make it so easy. Free shipping right to your door. And with their happy with Helix guarantee, you'll get a full 365 nights to try it. A whole year to live in that cozy. They've got over 20 mattress models, so no matter how you sleep, they've got one for you.

• 3:38Speaker 01

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• 3:45Dax Shepard?

  Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. Helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 4:15Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna ask, cause we were all just at the Emmys.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:20Dax Shepard?

  And are you still a little exhausted from that whole thing?

• 4:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:24Dax Shepard?

  How bad?

• 4:24Speaker 02

  Well, went to this mental party at the end of the night. I mean, it was weird.

• 4:30Dax Shepard?

  On Sunday night?

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:32Dax Shepard?

  Without naming names, tell me what brand of mental was it?

• 4:35Speaker 02

  I can't completely remember, but I think it was these brothers and I think they just do it every year.

• 4:40Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  And so there was proper people there. I fell over looking.

• 4:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my goodness. Yeah, that's a sign of a good evening.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe I'll be like, oh, that's not gonna work. Because I stupidly decided to walk home, you know, when you get very like, you know.

• 4:53Dax Shepard?

  You get ambitious sometimes.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm fine.

• 4:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  So I walked home and then went arse over tit. But yeah, it was these brothers and they do it every year apparently. And he sort of remodeled his home to be like a party house.

• 5:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  That was two nights ago, so we're still.

• 5:09Dax Shepard?

  Still struggling.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  We're still struggling.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  Have we started?

• 5:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, we're always starting.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  Does it matter that all my shit's just here?

• 5:16Dax Shepard?

  We're like it.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. As long as you're happy with it.

• 5:19Dax Shepard?

  You dress so nice, you can now pull off anything. If you throw up at some point in this interview.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  Well, I have another engagement after.

• 5:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Your lovely podcast, cause I didn't know whether to be casual or dress it up. But because I gotta be dressed up for this other thing. It's just the whole thing of coming over for the Emmy stuff is how many outfits you've gotta.

• 5:39Dax Shepard?

  Pack.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  And change into and put jewelry on and get your hair done.

• 5:45Dax Shepard?

  How many days was this trip?

• 5:47Speaker 02

  I arrived over on Friday.

• 5:49Dax Shepard?

  Did you go out Saturday night or did you know better?

• 5:50Speaker 02

  I went out Friday night.

• 5:52Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday night?

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, and last night.

• 5:55Dax Shepard?

  So you're just barely with us.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  And last night.

• 5:57Dax Shepard?

  You went out last night too?

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, but last night I was just eating pork chops and drinking water.

• 6:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  And maybe just one gin and tonic because I hadn't seen my friend for a long time.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Did you go to the Dunsmore?

• 6:09Speaker 02

  No, why are they pork chop place?

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Well, that's the only place I could think of that has pork chops.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  No, I went to Sunset Tower.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Oh, I love Sunset Tower.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  They do a really good pork chop.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Wow, I didn't know.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  I was so obsessed with eating last night. You know when there's like four things on the menu you want?

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  And there's this whole internal struggle and worry that you're gonna pick the wrong thing.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh yeah.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  But then I picked the right thing.

• 6:31Dax Shepard?

  The pork chop, and what did your friend get?

• 6:33Speaker 02

  He got the filet mignon.

• 6:35Dax Shepard?

  And did you sample that or you stuck with your pork chop?

• 6:38Speaker 02

  I didn't actually.

• 6:39Dax Shepard?

  Did he wanna try your pork chop?

• 6:40Speaker 02

  I felt like even that was too complicated a move.

• 6:43Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  You know?

• 6:44Speaker 01

  The splitting?

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Just leaning over.

• 6:47Dax Shepard?

  You were hanging on by a thread yesterday.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  It's a little tiredness, it's the jet lag. I woke up at 4:30 AM. And then I went back to sleep for about half an hour at about 7:30.

• 7:00Dax Shepard?

  Well, I did learn something about you in this story that you revealed accidentally or intentionally.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Oh wow.

• 7:06Dax Shepard?

  Which is, so probably a normal person, if they had had those three days.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:12Dax Shepard?

  And they had already had on the calendar, like, I gotta meet Mike. They'd have been like, Mike, I love you, but I really need to stay in bed all night tonight.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:19Dax Shepard?

  But I've learned that if you tell someone you're gonna be somewhere, come hell or high water, you're gonna be there.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Absolutely. He's my good pal who I've known since I was 18 and he's got three tiny children, all under five. He doesn't get out much.

• 7:33Dax Shepard?

  Exactly.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  So I felt like if I canceled.

• 7:35Dax Shepard?

  He had scheduled it. Probably had asked his wife two weeks ahead of time.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Doesn't have a wife, but like, yeah, got a babysitter.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  I'm glad I did, but I warned him that I was gonna be brilliant company, but it was fine, actually.

• 7:49Dax Shepard?

  The pork chop prevailed.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  I mean, the pork chop was great.

• 7:51Dax Shepard?

  It lifted you up, didn't it?

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, it really did. It made me really happy.

• 7:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so quickly, you're one of five, two younger, two older.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:02Dax Shepard?

  I'm a middle child myself.

• 8:03Speaker 02

  Are you? I'm not middle, but I'm second eldest.

• 8:06Dax Shepard?

  That's in the middle, my friend. If you're not the oldest or the youngest, you're in the middle, right?

• 8:10Speaker 02

  All right. I'm one of, I'm one of three in the middle.

• 8:14Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Three in the middle, one top, one bottom, okay.

• 8:17Dax Shepard?

  And then at four, you guys leave and go to Ireland.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:22Dax Shepard?

  And Dad's Irish, but he's a Kiwi. How did that happen?

• 8:25Speaker 02

  He's a Kiwi, but he ended up in Ireland. He moved to London from New Zealand when he was really young. He left New Zealand when he was about 19 and worked on a ship to sort of travel the world. And then ended up in London and met my mum. My mum had travelled from the sticks in Ireland. And this was at a time when women didn't really leave their rural environment to go looking for adventure. And then they met in London at an Irish club, because I think my dad had heard that Irish girls were, you know.

• 8:56Dax Shepard?

  A party, as we just learned.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:59Dax Shepard?

  I can't imagine you have a ton of memories living in London.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  I've got a few.

• 9:04Dax Shepard?

  You do?

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Little, tiny.

• 9:05Dax Shepard?

  Why?

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Well, because my parents had a pub called The White Thorn. And I remember it was one of those sort of East End pubs that had a piano and very sort of family feeling. But it was also an East End pub, so lots of gangsters around and dodgy kind of vibe, which is why we got the hell out. We lived upstairs above the pub.

• 9:25Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  I've got a weird, a weird memory of Chinese takeaway, a cat.

• 9:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  I've got like very sort of.

• 9:33Dax Shepard?

  Snapshots.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I don't think it's just from photographs because back in the day, no one took any. I think they're genuine memories from age three to four.

• 9:41Dax Shepard?

  So when you go to Ireland and you go to southern Ireland.

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Well, it was sort of central.

• 9:45Dax Shepard?

  That means northern, southern Ireland.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, yeah. But we were sort of in the centre when we moved there first. We got another pub. This one was called The Green Kiwi. We were there for a couple of years.

• 9:53Dax Shepard?

  Can your dad handle his business? Like when shit would break out in there?

• 9:57Speaker 02

  Oh, he was so tough.

• 9:58Dax Shepard?

  He was!

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh.

• 10:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I love it.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  You would not mess with them, yeah.

• 10:04Dax Shepard?

  Interesting. Not what you associate with the Kiwis, but what you do associate with the Irish.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  What, the toughness?

• 10:10Dax Shepard?

  Fisticuffs.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  I don't know about the fisty cuffs. He just had a very strong. Presence. People admired him, stroke occasionally feared him.

• 10:20Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure. I don't think you could own a pub and be a pushover, right?

• 10:24Speaker 02

  But even when he moved away from the whole publican business, he had a certain way of doing business.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  Did you like that? Did you feel safe by that presence or felt scared?

• 10:32Speaker 02

  When you're a kid, everything is embarrassing about your parents.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Right, correct.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  My dad was the kind of person who didn't give a shit what anyone thought of him, in his clothes, in his manner. Like, if you were boring him, he'd walk off mid-sentence, you know?

• 10:45Dax Shepard?

  How liberating.

• 10:46Speaker 02

  Oh, my god. It was awful when you're a kid. You know, when he would take us to McDonald's for a treat and the server was being disinterested, stroke rude, he would call them out for it. He would pick me up from school in a white van with a rottweiler sitting in the front seat. And he walked around in his farming jeans, rubber boots, bits of blood. You know, he didn't give a shit.

• 11:11Dax Shepard?

  Turkey parts?

• 11:12Speaker 02

  But you know what? I am that parent now. It's so funny. There's so many little things that I noticed that I have, that he had.

• 11:21Dax Shepard?

  It's maddening, isn't it?

• 11:22Speaker 02

  It is, yeah.

• 11:23Dax Shepard?

  It is. I became my dad, god, I became. First, physically, I look in the mirror, I'm like, oh, my god.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, my brother has the same. My brother has the same thing.

• 11:32Dax Shepard?

  And just all the same character defects, all the same getting into it with people, all this stuff. And I'm like, oh, my god, I hated him for this.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  There were things that I didn't love, but there's things that, when I think about it now, I'm like, well, it was great to have a dad that was a presence and that you felt like you couldn't mess with him. Like, he would have it out with parents outside the school if he had to. He would just call people out. And so I'm quite like that with my girls now, and it's awful for them. They love it.

• 12:02Dax Shepard?

  I know. We were at Target. You're familiar with Target?

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's my daughter's favorite place when we come over here.

• 12:08Dax Shepard?

  It's my daughter's, so she asked if she could sleep there. We realized we had never taken them to a department store because we order things online, then it was COVID. The first time she went into a Target, she was like seven, and she was like, what's going on? They have everything for sale this year? Yeah, and she wanted to. Asleep there, she wanted to have a birthday party there.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  That's adorable.

• 12:27Dax Shepard?

  I have this huge shopping cart on Saturday and they have a little conveyor belt that'll take your cart down the stairs. So you meet it at the bottom and a guy in front of me put his cart in and it takes off. And then I put my cart in, I do it correctly. It gets about six feet and then the whole thing shuts down. And then this guy starts yelling at me. He's like, oh, you fucking broke the thing. And I'm like, I didn't fucking break. How am I gonna break this thing? I what do you like? And I immediately get into this guy. And then my older daughter is immediately like, dad, shut up. You're not doing this. And I'm like, oh my God, this was me and my dad. And I gotta let this go that I'm being accused of breaking a machine I didn't break.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  It's like in your DNA, isn't it? It's just like deep in your bones.

• 13:11Dax Shepard?

  There's an injustice. I've been accused of something I didn't do and I'm gonna defend myself. But at the expense of my daughter being like, oh my God, my dad. Yes.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Screw you, daughters.

• 13:22Dax Shepard?

  How did he land in the turkey trade?

• 13:24Speaker 02

  He wanted to get out of the publican business.

• 13:28Dax Shepard?

  I like that you call it publican. We don't have that word.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Saying Republican and I'm like, what is that?

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Republican, that's what you.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  I like it.

• 13:35Dax Shepard?

  That's the name of like a proprietor of a pub is a publican.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:38Dax Shepard?

  Wonderful.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  He wanted to get out of that.

• 13:40Dax Shepard?

  Cause it wasn't financially great?

• 13:42Speaker 02

  No, it was just, I'm sure some people would disagree, but it wasn't a great family environment.

• 13:47Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  And I think my mom.

• 13:48Dax Shepard?

  Some people disagree.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  My mom was done cleaning out men's toilets and dad is very sociable and so possibly.

• 13:58Dax Shepard?

  Stayed a little late sometimes.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So they were like, let's get out of that.

• 14:02Dax Shepard?

  With fatherhood a little bit.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. So why turkey farming? I think by that point he had a good few kids and he was just looking for a way to get us into a more rural environment. But also he wasn't trained in anything, you know, like in London, he worked on the London Underground and he always was able to make money. But I guess in Ireland, he was like, what do I do here?

• 14:26Dax Shepard?

  I know something about him too. Now, he doesn't do well with the boss.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 14:31Dax Shepard?

  Right. So he owned one thing and he wanted to do another thing. But he had to be the boss of whatever thing, so that limits your options.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  No one could have told my dad what to do. So he found this piece of land and it had these turkey sheds on it. He wanted to build a house on this property where he found the turkey sheds. But there was nothing there. There was no electricity. So he managed to convince the local council that he was gonna set up this business that was gonna employ like a hundred local people. And so they invested in putting all this infrastructure in. But you know, you didn't tell them that it would just be for like five days every Christmas.

• 15:05Dax Shepard?

  My hunch is it employed six people full time. Five children.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:09Dax Shepard?

  Your mom and him.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  That's what we did. We were taken out of school to work on the farm.

• 15:15Dax Shepard?

  It's a gnarly business, though.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's nice when there are little chicks.

• 15:19Dax Shepard?

  Sure, that's a very short period of time.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  Not very long.

• 15:22Dax Shepard?

  And they shit a tremendous amount, right?

• 15:24Speaker 02

  What, more than most farm animals?

• 15:27Dax Shepard?

  I just associate.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  There's a lot of shit all over the place.

• 15:29Dax Shepard?

  There's a lot of shit, right? We have this problem in the States, which is we have all this chicken agriculture and they don't know what to do with all the shit. And then it seeps into the Hudson Bay and it fucking gets rid of all the oxygen in the water. So I just know we're having a hard time dealing with our chicken shit on an industrial scale.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  I don't know what we did with our turkey shit.

• 15:46Dax Shepard?

  Were you shoveling a ton of it?

• 15:47Speaker 02

  No, no, I was mainly plucking and, you know.

• 15:50Dax Shepard?

  Did you kill them?

• 15:51Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 15:52Dax Shepard?

  You didn't have to do that.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  There was always just some man walking around with very loose jeans. We were all just the plebs standing around waiting to pluck them. And then this guy would just saunter over and like break a neck.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Okay, that's what I was gonna ask, what the mechanics were. Is it a shooting situation?

• 16:07Speaker 02

  No, they just like.

• 16:08Dax Shepard?

  Drowning, fire.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Just like up against the wall.

• 16:12Dax Shepard?

  Do you overdose them?

• 16:13Speaker 02

  No, I never killed a bird.

• 16:15Dax Shepard?

  And did you eat a lot of turkey as a result of this?

• 16:18Speaker 02

  I became a vegetarian very young because of that, yeah.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:21Dax Shepard?

  And you've stuck with that. No, you had a pork chop the other day.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  I did. I stuck with it for 16 years, though.

• 16:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  And then I got back into it.

• 16:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so what age do you leave Ireland and go to London? Because we have a similar trajectory, I think.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  Really?

• 16:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and then I think we started late.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  I did.

• 16:38Dax Shepard?

  We both graduated college in 2000, which was late.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  I went to uni in Dublin, but I dropped out. I didn't even finish my first year.

• 16:47Dax Shepard?

  Let me ask really quick, what kind of kid were you? Were you a troublemaker? Were you a class clown?

• 16:51Speaker 02

  I was a class clown. Got myself in trouble, but wasn't a troublemaker. Got myself in trouble because I was an idiot and in the wrong place at the wrong time. I got caught. I was always sort of second to the popular girl. I wanted to be friends with the popular girl and I would find a way in.

• 17:09Dax Shepard?

  And what did you want to do? Did you always want to be in?

• 17:13Speaker 02

  No. Well, actually, it was sort of a mix. I ended up going to art college. I didn't know what the job would be at the end of it. All I wanted to do was go to art college.

• 17:21Dax Shepard?

  Right. And actually paint and stuff?

• 17:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, paint and draw.

• 17:25Dax Shepard?

  Were you any good at that?

• 17:26Speaker 02

  I was okay for a little while, just not good enough. So I think when I went to art college, I sort of realized my limitations and I found that really hard. I couldn't find a way to sort of stand out or be the best in any way. So I dropped out and then I went to London when I was 19, maybe nearly 20.

• 17:45Dax Shepard?

  When you were, I'm moving to London and what was the fantasy at that time? I'll just have a big city experience or I'll do X, Y, or Z?

• 17:53Speaker 02

  It was to make my fortune. At that point, I'd started doing like acting classes in Dublin at the weekends. I'm thinking, oh, I think I might like this. And I had this slightly strange encounter with an Irish director called Jim Sheridan, who just came up to me in a cafe and said, I want you to audition for my film.

• 18:14Dax Shepard?

  The famous Jim Sheridan?

• 18:15Speaker 02

  The famous Jim Sheridan.

• 18:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, wow.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  So I went along and auditioned for that film and really failed badly, didn't get it. But somehow weirdly, it made me think, I want to not fail at that.

• 18:25Dax Shepard?

  You're right.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  So I went to London to sort of do that because there's a great fringe theater scene in London. And I thought, that's the way I'll do it. I'll get into fringe theater. But I just wasn't that good at pushing myself forward and I hadn't sort of found my confidence at that point. So I got a job in a job center and I stayed there for six years.

• 18:43Dax Shepard?

  Six years?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was just a bit of a mistake. I was doing other things, you know, I was like doing the courses and trying to find a back route in.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Were you depressed?

• 18:53Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna say.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's depressing.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was very depressing. But then I left there and that's when I went back to college and did my degree.

• 19:01Dax Shepard?

  And you have a degree in English and American Studies?

• 19:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:04Dax Shepard?

  And did you learn a lot about America? Do you think you know more about America than most Americans?

• 19:08Speaker 02

  I don't know. My brain doesn't retain.

• 19:12Dax Shepard?

  It's just a pass through.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  It's awful. So like with learning lines or I can keep five shows in my head at any time. I've got great recall for that kind of thing. But anything else is just gone immediately.

• 19:25Dax Shepard?

  It's way easier to learn your lines when you've written them, don't you agree?

• 19:28Speaker 02

  It's so much easier.

• 19:29Dax Shepard?

  It's so easy. I've done a few things that I wrote.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:32Dax Shepard?

  And I'm like, oh, I know the whole script, basically. I don't even have to look at it.

• 19:37Speaker 02

  I know everyone else's lines included.

• 19:39Dax Shepard?

  Cause I write lines how I think they make sense to me. They should sound like this.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. My interests have changed and expanded a bit, but at the time I was just like, I gotta get this degree because everyone else in my family had one. And I was like, I just have to do this thing. I was a good student, but I was also, I mean ridiculously still class clowning it when I was.

• 19:59Dax Shepard?

  Right. An older woman at the.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Ridiculous.

• 20:02Dax Shepard?

  At the college.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  A ridiculous woman.

• 20:04Dax Shepard?

  While you were at this college, though, you meet Dennis Kelly, right?

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Well, actually, no, I met Dennis, it was just before we were doing youth theater together. Youth theater was just under 26, but it was around about the same time.

• 20:18Dax Shepard?

  And you meet him and he has already declared as I'm gonna be a writer.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  When I met him, he was Constantine to my Nina in The Seagull. So he was being an actor, but very quickly he realized that he wanted to be a writer. But we had sort of parted ways and then we met each other one night in a pub, just like bumped into each other. And he had written his first play. And so I was just sort of astounded by this. And that's what got me into the writing. I was like, I wanna write sketch comedy. Then off the back of that, a kind of sitcom, mainly that sketch and sitcom, that's all I wanted to write.

• 20:53Dax Shepard?

  So between 2000 and 2006, you're on TV. You're in Monkey Dust, which is an animated show.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:59Dax Shepard?

  And it's sketchy and funny.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:01Dax Shepard?

  And then in 06, we're now six years past graduation.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:06Dax Shepard?

  You and Dennis create polling together.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 21:09Dax Shepard?

  Based on the success of polling? No, that's the next one. What I think is really funny is in 2007, you won the British Comedy Award for Best Female Newcomer for Annually Retentive?

• 21:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:23Dax Shepard?

  Now, again, you were 37.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Was I?

• 21:26Dax Shepard?

  I think so, in 2007.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's true.

• 21:29Dax Shepard?

  Did you feel like, this is a weird, like newcomer feels like something that should go to the kid who won for fucking Adolescents or something the other night?

• 21:37Speaker 02

  No, because, I mean, I really, really was. I'd done a few shows at that point.

• 21:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  But they were culty, kind of, no one watched, kind of things.

• 21:45Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  So actually, that particular award was for polling and annually retentive. It was my first starring role, kind of thing. I just remember it being really surreal because six years earlier, I'd been doing fuck all.

• 21:59Dax Shepard?

  And you had done six years as like a temp or whatever the fuck job that was.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Admin assistant, yeah.

• 22:04Dax Shepard?

  So like 12 years is a long time in the saddle before the newcomer award comes.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was no structure to what I was doing, even though I was like trying to find a way into the industry. I was trying to get a job in radio or trying to get a job writing for someone else's show or any route in, I was trying. I just didn't have the right focus or the confidence or whatever it takes to sort of take the plunge and do it properly, to just all out go. That's scary. I'm gonna do this now. There was a lot of time wasted, but once I started doing it, it was like super hyper focus.

• 22:37Dax Shepard?

  And then it kind of just doesn't stop. But we must explain this really interesting difference between American television and British television.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:46Dax Shepard?

  In the States, when there's a hit, we just keep making it.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:50Dax Shepard?

  Until everyone gets too expensive, I guess, at some point to keep on the show. And it's just not that way in England at all, right? Like, it's very rare for a show to go more than three seasons or something.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's pretty rare.

• 23:03Dax Shepard?

  Is that maddening and frustrating?

• 23:05Speaker 02

  I mean, a good few do. There's a lot of exceptions that rule, but there's a lot of sort of standout shows that were just like, no, to and done.

• 23:13Dax Shepard?

  Well, The Office famously for us was like, wait, you have this. Incredible show and you guys are done?

• 23:17Speaker 02

  That's it. Or like 99 or Mighty Boosh. I wanted to do more pulling. We just didn't get recommissioned.

• 23:24Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna say, is that frustrating when you finally have a show and you're actually writing it and you're on it?

• 23:29Speaker 02

  So frustrating.

• 23:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  It's so frustrating because it was a dream scenario.

• 23:33Dax Shepard?

  Probably you'll never get more fun than that, would my guess, right?

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Ever. It was the biggest buzz. We got our show picked up. We didn't even have to make a pilot. We wrote this one script. Next thing we are making a show.

• 23:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, if you turn on the television and this thing you thought of is physically on the TV is crazy.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Such a great buzz. And I still find it very buzzy. Actually, I still feel like a kid when I'm walking around a set and that whole kind of like, ah, we did this.

• 24:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, show business.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  But like for your first thing, but also we got to do it our way with no interference, which makes no sense because we'd never done it before. Everyone who's in it was brilliant. It was just a very joy-filled experience.

• 24:16Dax Shepard?

  And when you were doing that, what did you find more fun? And then which one was more rewarding, the acting or the writing? So I can tell you personally, I have a lot of pride in being a writer.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:28Dax Shepard?

  Cause it's hard.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  It is.

• 24:30Dax Shepard?

  And it's lonely. I don't have a lot of pride in being an actor or being funny. That's a blast and I like doing it.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  I kind of agree with you. Although I think I'm different now. Like I get much more joy out of the writing, but back then, getting the opportunity to be on TV and to be the lead in something, I found it a huge buzz. And also it was my first time taking something from the page to the screen and realizing that it can be great on the page and you can make it better and you can exceed your expectations. And also it's like six weeks. When we make sitcoms, it's six episodes.

• 25:02Dax Shepard?

  Everyone's almost dedicated to not making any money.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 25:06Dax Shepard?

  How can we not break even on this thing? Let's do six so we never amortize the cost.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  No one makes a bean. God, I was so green back then. I did enjoy it then. I did get a lot of pride in pulling it off. But yeah, definitely less so now.

• 25:21Dax Shepard?

  Is the next big thing for you, that's obviously like a huge moment for you? That show is catastrophe. The next kind of big.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot of pilots in between, a lot of failed pilots.

• 25:33Dax Shepard?

  That you had written?

• 25:33Speaker 02

  I had written.

• 25:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  And then I made this mental UK show called Dead Boss that we only did one season of because it didn't really work. It was funny. You know, it's that thing. I think after pulling, not that that many people saw it or that people were waiting with bated breath to see what I do next, but there was an expectation. It did well.

• 25:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they would assume your next one's gonna be even better.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 25:58Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that was her first thing.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  I made this really nutty show set in a women's prison about this woman who's accused of killing her boss. It was bonkers. Not many people liked it. There was lots of funny stuff in it.

• 26:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  It just didn't gel in the way you would hope. So that and a lot of pilots over here. I was doing that for years.

• 26:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So when you're there being London and you're having some success, I would be like, well, I'm gonna go over there or everyone's getting rich.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  To the US. Yeah, but I had this weird thing where I was like, I'll go over there now. And my agents be like, no, it's not time for you to go over there. And I go, why are you sure?

• 26:35Dax Shepard?

  I think I'm ready.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Going over there. So it took a while. I don't know why. Like, I must talk to my, I've still got the same agent because I'm just a creature of habit.

• 26:44Dax Shepard?

  And very loyal per the Monday night dinner.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I hope so. But I must ask him, it was a real like kind of no, you're not ready. And then finally, when I did go over, I think I made about four pilots in a row, maybe five.

• 26:57Dax Shepard?

  Wow. Do you start getting crazy discouraged? Like, man, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  I was kind of, you know, the weird thing that I noticed that's very different from UK is that people could happily make a great living, never getting anything made here.

• 27:12Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  My agents over here were setting me up with the writers where I go, so what are you working on at the moment? And they were like, I haven't had anything produced in five years. But there was this sense of it was successful if you were getting pilot scripts commissioned.

• 27:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Whereas I was like, what the fuck? Yeah. You're not making anything.

• 27:27Dax Shepard?

  I bet the amount they buy here versus make, I bet that ratio is way different than it is in London.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:34Dax Shepard?

  Like, I have sold many TV shows. And none of them have been produced.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  I think it's changing, though. I think that's what people are starting to feel.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  I think so, yeah.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  It's really hard for writers right now because I think they're not doing that.

• 27:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they shut off that.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  I mean, when you think about all those pilots that have never been seen, it just seems extraordinary.

• 27:50Dax Shepard?

  Thousands of hours of television that no one's seen.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  They probably cost what it takes to make a UK TV series.

• 27:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, a lot of people have a really good pilot quote as an actor. They'll make one fifty, then get by for the year, and then next year they do another pilot, and it can just be this weird little trap.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, but even though I met Rob on Twitter, because I was coming over to make the pilots, we did end up hanging out in real life. And when I was making one of the pilots, we were sort of moonlighting on Catastrophe on the side.

• 28:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so talk about meeting Rob because I too was just on Twitter and discovered him. And still, hands down, of all the tweeters.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 28:31Dax Shepard?

  He was the number one funniest on Twitter ever.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  The funniest.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Rob Delaney.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Ridiculously, like crying laughing.

• 28:38Dax Shepard?

  Twenty eighteen, he had some weird tweet. I don't even know what it was about. And then he just hashtag Coni twenty twelve. It was like, who thinks that hashtag Coni twenty twelve six years later?

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's great.

• 28:51Dax Shepard?

  It was just so funny. Everything's so fucking funny.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  He's got such an amazingly specific brain.

• 28:57Dax Shepard?

  And right away, you guys thought we should try to create something together?

• 29:01Speaker 02

  No, it was more of a sort of mutual, like, I think you're really funny. And then he had seen Pulling, and not that many people had. I mean, it was on over here, but he had to do a quest.

• 29:10Dax Shepard?

  You wouldn't have needed AI to locate it.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  But he found it. Then we ended up doing this little sketch. It was kind of fun. And then because of his Twitter fame, he got commissioned by the BBC to write a sitcom. And then he got in touch with me and said, do you want to write it with me? So that's how it happened.

• 29:26Dax Shepard?

  It's a spectacular show.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 29:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, did you feel very proud of it, I hope?

• 29:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did. It was another one of those things where we had a pretty good feeling that it was gonna work at the script stage. But when we started doing it together, it was a nice feeling of relief that we bounced so well off each other as performers as well as writers. Such an unknown.

• 29:44Dax Shepard?

  You play the chemistry lottery.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  That's it completely. But, I mean, I loved making that show.

• 29:49Dax Shepard?

  And then post Catastrophe, now more doors open, I'm assuming. Because your next thing's Divorce, which is written for someone else, is written for Sarah Jessica Parker.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:00Dax Shepard?

  So now we're like in another realm where we might just also create shows.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 30:04Dax Shepard?

  Was that scary or exciting? Or did you feel like, I don't really want to write something I'm not going to be in?

• 30:11Speaker 02

  I loved the idea of writing for other people. It felt exciting. You're incredibly invested in it, but at the same time, you get to sort of step back a bit and have more of a bird's eye view. I mean, to me, that felt like the best case scenario to create something that then I could just watch it do its thing, you know?

• 30:28Dax Shepard?

  Did you pitch Sarah the idea? Or were you approached with like, Sarah wants to do this?

• 30:34Speaker 02

  Actually, I pitched this other show idea to HBO, which ended up being Shining Veil, made for Courtney Cox. So we were about to start making that, or at least developing it. And then they said, Sarah Jessica's looking to make a new show and she's looking for a writer and she had had a script that she didn't really feel was working. So we just met up, got a good notion of what it was she wanted to make.

• 30:57Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  And the kind of things she wanted to talk about, that death of a long-term relationship kind of thing. And I came up with this divorce sort of setting for it.

• 31:06Dax Shepard?

  Were you post-divorce or about to start that process? How did it parallel your life?

• 31:11Speaker 02

  I wasn't, I was still in my marriage, but I guess maybe.

• 31:15Dax Shepard?

  Some of the scenes, I'm sure you had a lot of fodder of things that are annoying at this point, 14 years in, I'm sure you had a lot of like.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, of course. It's like Amy Grabett said, anyone who's married knows what it feels like to want to be divorced.

• 31:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, right, right, right, right.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  But my friend had just very recently gone through one. So through talking to her and just getting the detail from her, I could talk about relationships until the cows come home, but the actual mechanics of going through something, yeah. I could write a divorce encyclopedia now, but back then, no, I just had some feelings.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Do you think it made you get a divorce?

• 31:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like, I don't want to make it too big of a stretch. Yeah, were you like, living in this thought experiment of divorce?

• 31:58Speaker 02

  No, not at all. I mean, thank God for my family at that point. My ex was traveling back and forth with my kids. It was a tricky time for us as a family, but we were very much all in it together.

• 32:09Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  And that sort of overlapped with catastrophe. So it was just a little bit too much. Bad time management, I would say.

• 32:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 32:26Dax Shepard?

  This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We've talked before about Rob building our website on Squarespace and I bring it up again because it's a perfect example of what they do well. Rob had all the pieces, the content, the vision, the ideas, but he needed something to actually take all that and make it public facing and Squarespace was that bridge. Maybe you're in the same spot. You've been developing something, a business, a skillset, a body of work, and it's been private, it's been yours, but at some point you're ready to put it out there and that transition from private to public can feel like a huge leap. Squarespace makes it feel like a step. Beautiful templates, built-in SEO, email campaigns, scheduling, analytics, everything you need to go from I've been working on this to here it is, come find me.

• 33:11Dax Shepard?

  All in one place, no code, no stitching together a bunch of different tools. So if you've been sitting on something and waiting for the right moment, this might be it. Head to Squarespace.com/dax for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. We get support from Scottsdale, Arizona. Monica, with summer ending or heading into fall, I've been researching a nice quick getaway location and I keep coming back to Scottsdale, Arizona.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Ooh, Scottsdale's good. What's drawing you to it?

• 33:45Dax Shepard?

  Well, first of all, I have this wonderful memory of going there as a kid when I would go see my stepdad when he was working out there. The weather is perfect in fall, warm, sunny, no humidity, and you can really do whatever you want with your time there. I want to do a sunrise hike through the Sonoran Desert, be surrounded by Sowaro, and then at the same afternoon, just completely melt into a spa treatment at one of their luxury resorts.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Oh, that sounds amazing. I want to do that. Also, I was there visiting my brother once and I loved Old Town Scottsdale. It's so walkable. They have galleries and cute little restaurants and shops. The food scene alone is worth the trip.

• 34:24Dax Shepard?

  What I keep reading is that it's luxurious, but not stuffy. There's no pressure to. Do it a certain way. You can explore public art, check out the architecture, go off-roading in the desert, or just sit and watch a sunset.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  It really is the perfect fall reset.

• 34:37Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about all Scottsdale has to offer at unwindinscottsdale.com. We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working professionals get the W, the knowledge, the skills, and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, available in select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace. And Walden's faculty aren't just academics.

• 35:22Dax Shepard?

  They're practitioners who bring real-world experience into everything they teach. From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by CHEV. We get support from Superhuman. Look, I love what I do. The conversations, the ideas, the creative stuff. But there's this whole other layer of work that eats my day alive. The inbox that never ends. Docs I need to get through, threads I'm behind on. And by the time I've dealt with all that, the stuff I actually want to focus on gets whatever's left.

• 36:05Dax Shepard?

  What I needed was something that just works where I'm already working. Not another tab to open, not another thing to set up. Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly, is different. It's already right there, inside your email, your docs, your browser. You don't go to it. It's already working alongside you. You're deep in a long thread, highlight it, and it pulls the key points. About to send something important? It flags what doesn't add up before it leaves your hands. It knows your style, your workflows, and it just backs you up without getting in the way. A thought partner that's already up to speed. At your service, not after your job. So do yourself a favor and try Superhuman Go. From the makers of Grammarly. Find out more at superhuman.com.

• 36:54Dax Shepard?

  Was it hard for you?

• 36:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:56Dax Shepard?

  What kind of feelings did you have? Like, I'm family?

• 37:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:00Dax Shepard?

  Family shame?

• 37:02Speaker 02

  All of it. Terrible, missed a birthday, got back for the party, but missed the actual birthday. And my daughter's 21 now.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 37:10Speaker 02

  And she still talks about it.

• 37:12Dax Shepard?

  Sure. What else is she gonna talk about?

• 37:14Speaker 01

  She needs something. We all need something.

• 37:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we need something. I play this game all the time. Our kids are 10 and 12 and I'm like, what's gonna be the thing I'm gonna hear about the rest of my life? Is it that target argument? Cause they have to have something.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  I've seen so many mothers do it now. And having done it myself, remembering that awful push, pull of I'm kind of away from the family unit for way too long for it to be healthy. I kind of feel like with kids, it's a little bit, for the most part, apart from my daughter remembering the birthday thing, it's a little bit like Water of a Duck's Back, a little bit.

• 37:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Whereas I think for us, we kind of.

• 37:53Dax Shepard?

  Self-flagellate.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. And there's like still trauma there. I still think about it.

• 37:58Dax Shepard?

  Is it fair to say, most of the women, my wife included, that I know that are in this business that have kids, it's like, you feel guilty at work because you're not with your kids? And then when you're with your kids, you feel guilty you're not working? Because that's also your passions. Like, there's no real sweet spot.

• 38:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's it. You also have that weird thing. I can only assume it's how people feel when they get out of prison. You sort of forget how to operate in normal life. You're sort of isolated from everything else. And all you do is get up, someone picks you up in a car, feeds you, takes you to the vet.

• 38:30Dax Shepard?

  To make sure.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  Feeds you some more. All you're doing is sort of working and being cosseted and then put back in a car and then brought home. And when you get back into your family environment, you just don't know how to operate for a while.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. You can also get tricked into thinking that. That job is the most important thing in the world.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that you are.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  And that you are, yes, because that's how you're being treated.

• 38:52Dax Shepard?

  Objectively, you are important to that world. It's not even like an ego explosion.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  No, that's true.

• 38:59Dax Shepard?

  The lead actors are very important to the project.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:01Dax Shepard?

  The writers are very important to the project.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  To the project, but I think because it is so isolated and compartmentalized and it's every day and you're in a hotel and then you go, you can think that the project is the most important thing in the world.

• 39:13Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure, sure. You almost have to for it to be good.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  Right, you have to buy in a little bit.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  And then that's complicated when you leave it.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then you get taken down numerous pegs by your family.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  And you just have to deal with it and get back on the horse.

• 39:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay, Bad Sisters, this is, I'm imagining your first like American hit.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:37Dax Shepard?

  America's Gone Batshit.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:39Dax Shepard?

  A lot of people loved Catastrophe, but it was definitely like culty.

• 39:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 39:44Dax Shepard?

  But Bad Sisters is this epic thing. I watched it, it looked interesting, I saw it.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you.

• 39:49Dax Shepard?

  And then I'm probably having the same thing other people are, where it's like, oh yeah, I love Bad Sisters, oh yeah. Oh, you know, the one sister created the show. I'm like, oh, she created the show. And this is when I find out that you've created all these shows and that you're writing it, and then it's just so impressive. Very bowled over by it. It was a Danish show?

• 40:07Speaker 02

  Belgian. I had seen it, it was brought to me to adapt it. So I watched pilot episodes and really fell in love with it.

• 40:16Dax Shepard?

  Is it tonally the same?

• 40:17Speaker 02

  No, it's completely different.

• 40:18Dax Shepard?

  Is that one darker?

• 40:20Speaker 02

  It's really hard to explain, but it's just got that Scandi kind of thing where it's much more crazy.

• 40:26Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  You know, so the murders are kind of crazy and there's Chinese mafia in it and hitmen and people end up being murdered and then ending up in dog food counting factories.

• 40:38Dax Shepard?

  Right, right.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  It was quite extreme, but. It was really amazing tonally because the sisters were really grounded.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  But it was just, it was a different approach, even to the really brutal, serious stuff in it. It was just a different approach, like Eva's rape in the original version. She's having sex with her boyfriend. He needs to take a break. He goes downstairs to the fridge to have something to eat and to cool down. And while she's waiting for him, still on all fours.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  The prick comes up and gets in there. So they totally got away with it because she's brilliant, the lady who created it, Malin. And the actors are amazing. Even in our version, there was a real line to tread in terms of when you're going to be funny and when you're going to destroy people, you know.

• 41:30Dax Shepard?

  I'd argue it's the hardest tone to pull off in anything. It was when you're bouncing back and forth.

• 41:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's scary when you're doing it because you're like, they could maul us to death.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:40Dax Shepard?

  If it goes wrong, it'll go spectacularly wrong.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  You need to just sort of take a punt and then just try and hold fast.

• 41:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Were you shocked with how loved it was?

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 41:51Dax Shepard?

  Did you write the roles with the actors in mind or did you write the whole thing and then cast it?

• 41:55Speaker 02

  I wrote the pilot and then casted after that. Ireland's a small country and also it had to be very specific in terms of the ages. And for us to seem like we are in the same family.

• 42:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  I just had to pray that those girls that I asked to do it were available.

• 42:13Dax Shepard?

  They were it.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I'd worked with a lot of them before, so I kind of knew. And as soon as I started writing the series, I had their voices in my head. But when it came to like the second season, it was just so much easier because I'd spent all that time with them and I knew how one character would respond to another. And I knew what the dynamics were that worked within the family. And so I found the second season easier, but.

• 42:38Dax Shepard?

  More challenging story wise, probably.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  Although the first one had huge challenges because even though we had the template in rethinking it, it sort of threw all the pieces out of whack. And then it's got two timelines and I found that really hard.

• 42:53Dax Shepard?

  How do I say his name? Is it Clay's?

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Clay's Bang, yeah.

• 42:56Dax Shepard?

  Holy shit. So that was the first time I'd ever seen him.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Oh, really? Because I'd seen The Square.

• 43:02Dax Shepard?

  He's so good. I mean, he's so repugnant. The way he calls her mama, mammy.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  Mammy.

• 43:08Dax Shepard?

  Oh, he's so gross.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  He's so gross, yeah.

• 43:10Dax Shepard?

  He's the most hateable character ever.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  He was perfect.

• 43:13Dax Shepard?

  And he's like slimy. He's terrible. God bless him. He just is like, yeah, I'm gonna be as unlikable as humanly possible. Did he have any vanity? What was the process?

• 43:21Speaker 02

  He had to get his head around being that odious. And it was a bit of a challenge. He didn't love being hateful and hated every day.

• 43:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  But then there was this other side to him that revelled in it. It's fun as an actor. And he really went for it. But it is a thing where every scene you're in, you're just being an absolute piece of shit. But we had to just make sure that there were moments where you could see who he used to be.

• 43:54Dax Shepard?

  How anyone fell in love with him in the first place.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Exactly, yeah.

• 43:56Dax Shepard?

  Why does his child love him?

• 43:58Speaker 02

  Exactly. So we needed to see him be a good dad sometimes. And we needed to see him be vulnerable or feel like a stranger in this Irish family. And it really helped that he was not an Irishman. Exactly.

• 44:11Dax Shepard?

  How did you just come across him? You had seen Square?

• 44:14Speaker 02

  I had seen The Square, but no, it was Nina Gold, our casting agent. It was her idea. And then I rewrote it kind of for him to lean into that. We gave him a Swedish mother and it ended up sort of affecting a lot of the scripts, but in a way that was only positive. And it's amazing when that happens, when you have something in your mind and you do something completely different and then you go, oh no, this has given us so much more.

• 44:40Dax Shepard?

  What's your explanation of the mass appeal of it?

• 44:43Speaker 02

  The time it came along, I think at that time, everyone... Really needed the catharsis of hating an awful white.

• 44:53Dax Shepard?

  Man.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Religious bigot. We were all on board for it. And also that thing of despite the thriller of it and the caper, it is about family.

• 45:03Dax Shepard?

  Nobody would ever watch that and not want to be one of the sisters.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:06Dax Shepard?

  I would argue that's like a huge element of it. It's just, again, you guys hit the chemistry lottery. There's such a familiarity and the fun and everyone's so different.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:15Dax Shepard?

  And it all works cohesively.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, we got very lucky. I love those girls. One of them is the reason why I am this hungover today.

• 45:23Dax Shepard?

  Was it Eve?

• 45:24Speaker 02

  It was Eve.

• 45:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Good guess. That was my next question. Did you know Eve before?

• 45:29Speaker 02

  I didn't.

• 45:30Dax Shepard?

  And did you know she was Bono's daughter before you cast her?

• 45:34Speaker 02

  That was Nina Gold. But once she mentioned her, then I remembered other work that I'd seen her in and was like, she's amazing. But I just didn't know. She'd never done any sort of, I mean, it's a drama, but there's a lot of comedy in it.

• 45:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  So in actual fact, she came in and did a casting and she filmed the casting in Bono's front room of his castle.

• 45:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  But she was so brilliant in the casting, so clearly funny in that way where you're not trying to push the comedy. She was just naturally funny.

• 46:07Dax Shepard?

  I wish this were not the case, but it just truly is, which is like, if I know that's Bono's daughter, it's in the mix. I'm aware of it, right? And I think the worst guess I would have for Bono's daughter is that she's gonna be like, perfect in plastic and spoiled.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  No.

• 46:26Dax Shepard?

  The contradiction of what potentially you're afraid could be the daughter of someone uber famous and rich. She's in fact quite the opposite, at least on screen.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Oh, and in person as well.

• 46:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, just in this delightful way where you're like, it's almost even cooler because she seems so fucking real.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  She's very sweet, incredibly fun.

• 46:47Dax Shepard?

  Bad influence.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  Takes the work seriously. A bad influence.

• 46:49Dax Shepard?

  Bad influence.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  Well, we all are bad influences on each other. But no, it was just an immediate family. We just got really lucky. We were enjoying ourselves, but at the same time, we had to work as an ensemble, but they all had to be able to sort of carry their own episode, you know, because there would always be an episode that really focused on them. And all of them are just incredible actors, incredibly watchable, and you just instantly care about them.

• 47:15Dax Shepard?

  Were you ever? At any point in it, kind of wishing, I wish I didn't have this dual role where I'm also their bosses a little bit. Like, I just want to be in the riffraff crew and kind of bitch about the production.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. I'm so paranoid. I am walking around in a constant state of fear that anything. You know, I'm always worrying that people aren't happy or have an opinion about how I'm doing things.

• 47:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  I always just wanted to be with them, hanging out and chatting instead of on my laptop, having a nervous breakdown about reshoots or edits or whatever else goes along with it. It's a pain. You just want to play. You want to enjoy it. There's a real feeling of pride and accomplishment that comes from seeing something you wrote come to life. But you do miss out on a lot of really good gossip.

• 48:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You won a Peabody for it.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:10Dax Shepard?

  Did you even know what a Peabody was before you won it?

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Yes, I did. Yeah, yeah.

• 48:14Dax Shepard?

  We covet the Peabody Award. We actively campaigned to win a Peabody Award.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Yes, great.

• 48:21Dax Shepard?

  I'm not terribly sure what it is, but I really want that award.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  It means something good, doesn't it?

• 48:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What does it mean?

• 48:28Speaker 01

  It's prestigious.

• 48:29Dax Shepard?

  It's prestigious.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  It is prestigious.

• 48:31Dax Shepard?

  But what is it? It's like, it's not an acting award. It's just like a culture award?

• 48:35Speaker 02

  It is, actually. If you've campaigned for them, you know, you kind of have to do this whole statement.

• 48:39Dax Shepard?

  By campaign, I write in my Instagram comments, please give me one of these.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  Well, you have to submit your program for it, obviously. And then, and then you kind of talk about what it is that you were wanting to achieve with the show. And I don't know, but I think for the most part, there has to be an aspect to it that makes it socially important, relevant.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Across the board, really, in the storytelling, in the casting, in the diversity and the amount of female directors you use, why you chose to tell that story, representation. It's a big sort of all round. And it's about how successful the storytelling was, of course, but it's a bit of a...

• 49:16Speaker 01

  This is important work.

• 49:18Dax Shepard?

  Success with intention.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  I guess it's not just about the entertainment. I love that it's just properly entertaining, but I like the fact that it's saying something.

• 49:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox. We interviewed Amanda Knox.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  Did you?

• 49:34Dax Shepard?

  Yes. I found her to be so brilliant. I could barely stand it.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  Super bright. She's a great girl. When we were talking earlier about being a mother and like a father as well sometimes, but for the most part, it's harder to be a mother and leave your kids behind. But KJ Steinberg, who created the show, because we shot it in Rome, in Budapest, in Vancouver, all over Italy. And she had to leave her kids at home and do this. I'm so glad for her. It's taken quite a big swing, isn't it? Like stylistically, it's a terrible tragic story, but there's also a lot of absurdity in what happened in the situation. And KJ was not scared to show that some of these things were so absurd, they were funny. Yeah. And the stylistic approach of this sort of Amelie-esque kind of filming style at the beginning.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  And all those things are big swings, you know?

• 50:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's very ambitious.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the fact that she pulled it off, I'm just delighted for her because it was really hard for her, being that far away from her family. And dealing with something that wasn't easy, you know, it's a difficult story to tell for loads of reasons, you know, legally. But Amanda was around a good bit.

• 50:43Dax Shepard?

  And you met her mom.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  I met her mom, I met her kids, I met her husband, I met them all, I met her sister. Some of the days they were there for some lighter scenes, but some of the days they were there for some really heavy scenes that brought them right back to it. I remember her mom saying to me, it's really hard to watch for loads of reasons, but I wish I'd been that articulate when it was happening. I wish I'd known how to deal with my emotions and I wish I'd known how to operate within that situation. And it's like, how could you?

• 51:14Dax Shepard?

  Well, I said to her towards the end, and now she has kids, so it's not hard to imagine. But I'm, of course, watching that thing and I'm no longer putting myself in the position of her. I'm putting myself in the position of, oh my God, if this happened to one of my daughters.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  Yes, completely.

• 51:29Dax Shepard?

  I would a million times would rather sit in prison than have them sit in prison. In a bizarre way, I do think it could be harder for the parent. And she agreed.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  I did the Zoom and it Actually with the producers and KJ, but then I did the second Zoom with Amanda. And I don't know about you, but most of the times if I'm offered a job, I'm kind of like, why do you want me to do it? I was a bit like, I don't know.

• 51:50Dax Shepard?

  You were scared of this role, right?

• 51:51Speaker 02

  Oh, completely. Yeah. But it was her talking about that. It was really emotional on the Zoom, you know, because when she was talking about her mother and what she went through, I sort of realized then that maybe I could play it because.

• 52:04Dax Shepard?

  You had the emotion.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  Exactly. And I was more sort of nervous about it. It's a bit exhausting doing that.

• 52:09Dax Shepard?

  Coming in frazzled, panicked.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  Frazzled all day long. It's hardcore. It takes it out of you. But yeah, she's a great girl.

• 52:17Dax Shepard?

  So you were scared. It's a big acting challenge. And also you didn't write it. It's not gonna be how you might like to land in that challenge.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  But I feel like in stuff like that, you have to just be on board for the ride. And for the most part, if you're working with normal people, they do want a bit of feedback or they do appreciate a suggestion or two. But really, at the end of the day, I like just to do it and not think about all the other stuff because my day job is so thinking about everything. And in actual fact, it's kind of fun just to go there and be an actor. And then at the end of the day, go to your trailer and look at your phone.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  And not just be like writing more scripts. So I was nervous about it for that reason, but also because it's divisive subject area. People have opinions about her and you would have opinions about why the show is even being made.

• 53:09Dax Shepard?

  Strongest opinions, knowing the least amount of the actual story. That seems to be related.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  You just never know how something is going to be received.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. How has it been? Have people reached out to you?

• 53:20Speaker 02

  There was a little bit of, like, there would be because people are.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  There's no consensus anymore.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Online was a little bit.

• 53:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, people like to be really very upset on Meredith's behalf. As if this person's not also allowed to tell their story. Because one scenario was worse. Say we got in a car accident and you died and I got fucking paralyzed. I wouldn't be allowed to talk about being paralyzed because they would go, what about Sharon?

• 53:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was people who were angry on her behalf. But for the most part, I would say the response has been really good. People thought they knew that story, like you were saying, and then there's so much that you didn't know.

• 53:58Dax Shepard?

  And my hunch is anyone who's even complaining still hasn't seen the story.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  I would say not.

• 54:01Dax Shepard?

  There were people in our comments sounding off. And I literally wrote a few times like, this couldn't be more obvious that you didn't listen to the episode. That's what I know from this comment is that you-

• 54:10Speaker 02

  When she was on the show.

• 54:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, she's did it. And I'm like, what I know for sure is you did not listen to this episode. Cause there's no way you could write that comment had you listened.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  But the show and the story, the thing that happened to her is just a reflection of the world acting very sinister. And then there's a lot of defensiveness that comes out of it.

• 54:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I think a lot of people are like, no, because they are not okay feeling like they live in a world where we could do that to someone. Or that they themselves have done it unfairly.

• 54:42Dax Shepard?

  Or enjoyed the opera of it while it was happening.

• 54:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:47Dax Shepard?

  So to do something lighter, you've taken on Jeanette McCurdy's book.

• 54:52Dax Shepard?

  I'm glad my mom died. We interviewed her when she first was promoting that book and is for sure one of our best episodes ever.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  She's amazing.

• 54:59Dax Shepard?

  She's incredible.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  She's again, a giant brained person, ridiculously talented. It's a really difficult story to tell and somehow she's managing to do it. And it's funny and entertaining and traumatic.

• 55:14Dax Shepard?

  I think the defining attribute that allows you to enjoy it or not enjoy it, be it Amanda Knox or Jeanette, is if they weren't destroyed by it, it's great. And that really is Jeanette, it's like, oh no, this bitch ain't destroyed by this. She's gotten stronger. It's so inspiring.

• 55:34Speaker 02

  She is.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  You play the mom?

• 55:36Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 55:36Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, no.

• 55:37Dax Shepard?

  Producing the project.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Producing, okay, got it.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  I'm just delighted to be involved in any way, just getting to see her work. And it was a book that I was obsessed with and talking to her about it before we had it picked up, before we went out and pitched it even, I knew I wanted to be involved. She's really something.

• 55:57Dax Shepard?

  Now I'm scared for you. You're writing two different projects for yourself, one at Amazon, one at HBO.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  I wonder what the Amazon thing is, cause someone else has asked me that as well. We're developing something with Amazon.

• 56:09Dax Shepard?

  But not necessarily you starring.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  Not for me, no. I'm writing an HBO. Show.

• 56:14Dax Shepard?

  For you.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, for me. I always still get embarrassed by that, like. Really? Writing it for me, like.

• 56:19Dax Shepard?

  And no one else will be in it.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think it's braggy. Well, no, I felt it with pulling as well, even though that was the first thing I was like, and I will cast me, you know, it just feels a bit. Indulgent, maybe. Yes. But it's not, just saying no.

• 56:35Dax Shepard?

  But the workload, I'm a little worried about the workload.

• 56:38Speaker 02

  Are you?

• 56:39Dax Shepard?

  I am. You've now created more shows than almost anyone, really. You're just rocking them up. It's a lot and you're fine. How many hours a day do you work?

• 56:48Speaker 02

  It depends. Well, at the moment, we are making a show for Netflix called Vladimir, and it's shooting in Toronto, and it's like mad hours because it's a different time zone. So at the moment, it's not great because I finished my work in the UK and then I go and eat dinner with my girls, and then I go back to work. But for the most part, when you're writing, I'll do a sort of ten till five kind of thing. If my girl's at school and she's leaving at eight in the morning, I start at eight and then might end a little earlier, but I don't know. I mean, I'm just sitting at a desk.

• 57:20Dax Shepard?

  You don't feel like you're approaching burnout level or anything?

• 57:23Speaker 02

  No, you're worrying me.

• 57:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you should be a little bit worried.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  No.

• 57:28Dax Shepard?

  Here's why. I watched this incredible documentary. I did not know this DJ. I don't know. I just randomly watched it. Avicii. Have you ever heard that Avicii? He was this enormous global DJ, the kind that can make a million dollars a night. And now everyone wants to start working with him. So it's like this amazing artist, this amazing artist.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:48Dax Shepard?

  And this documentary is heartbreaking because, and I can so relate to it, just like you want something so bad, it takes so long to get it, and when it comes, it's nearly impossible to throttle it. And this took him down. I think he died of working.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  What the hell?

• 58:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he killed himself.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  No, he killed himself.

• 58:06Dax Shepard?

  He killed himself.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 58:08Dax Shepard?

  Slash maybe fell on a broken wine bottle, whatever. He was not in a good spot. Very tragic story. And I was watching it just going like, I very much relate to this. These opportunities don't come around. He had to have felt that way. And it's really hard to govern yourself when it's all things. You want.

• 58:24Speaker 02

  That's true. And there is definitely an element of that because I did start late. And so I've always felt like I'm playing catch up. But the other element of it is that I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I wasn't.

• 58:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you said, I'm not very good at twiddling my thumbs. I've become a bit more hyperactive as I get older. I don't really know how to relax.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't really know how to relax. But here's the thing, I was writing this episode of something that was set in Germany. And then every day over the two weeks that I was writing it, I was just like going to Germany. Get out of my head and my house and just be in a different world. And I find it very relaxing.

• 59:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay, good.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  When I was doing divorce and catastrophe, that was hard. And I remember having, I guess they were sort of panic attacks. I didn't know what they were at the time. I was like, oh my god.

• 59:18Dax Shepard?

  You're drowning in the commitments.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it doesn't feel like that now. I mean, I've got a company of amazing people.

• 59:24Dax Shepard?

  The new show, you're playing a divorcee moving through the world.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:30Dax Shepard?

  Is there more plot than that than I'm leaving out?

• 59:32Speaker 02

  Well, I'm the mother of a son. It's kind of about the sandwich generation, really. It's about that point in your life where your children are adults, but they haven't left. And you're still looking after them and your parents are getting older and that becomes also a responsibility. But it's this time in your life when the stakes are so raised because you suddenly become incredibly aware of your mortality. And in this particular situation, she wants to meet someone. She wants to fall in love before she stops being a sexual person. Yeah. You know, so there's this clock, but the world isn't allowing her.

• 1:00:09Dax Shepard?

  Well, here's my pitch. You're gonna have a lot of lovers in this show. You're gonna have to go on a lot of dates and there'll be good ones and bad ones. And I'm volunteering to be one of the lovers.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 1:00:20Dax Shepard?

  A lot of episodes, but it is one, something within reason. I'm letting you know I will do that.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  Would you be a force for good or a force for bad?

• 1:00:29Dax Shepard?

  Whatever you choose that morning. You're like, I want to see him be naughty. No, I. I want to see the sweet side of him who has kids.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  Not like a builder.

• 1:00:37Dax Shepard?

  I don't want to play a parking meter maid, but let's just say I was giving you a ticket, but then somehow I charmed you. And you're like, I hate you. What is this guy?

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  Can you imagine going out with a parking meter?

• 1:00:47Dax Shepard?

  It would be rough. Yeah.

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  But they're just people too.

• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  No, you're right. You're right. I'm a dick.

• 1:00:52Dax Shepard?

  They deserve to be in love.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  No, it's not. This is how we all feel. Yeah.

• 1:00:56Dax Shepard?

  You can only like them so much. They are in charge of giving us tickets.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  And it's not their fault.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  It's not their fault.

• 1:01:01Dax Shepard?

  Once in a while, one will hang out in front of my kid's school at drop off.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  Really? Just waiting?

• 1:01:06Dax Shepard?

  Let it go. I can't let it go. Because you know, everyone's so fucking hectic. Everyone's trying to get to work. It's a mess.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're like vultures.

• 1:01:13Dax Shepard?

  And I have on a couple of occasions said, you know, an even better spot is the emergency room. You should go hang out at the emergency room where people really don't have time to park.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  Blank face or do they give it to you back?

• 1:01:25Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  There's nothing.

• 1:01:27Dax Shepard?

  Then I feel bad. Then I regret it. And then I've done it twice.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  No one wants that job.

• 1:01:33Dax Shepard?

  Well, listen, takes a unique person to post up in front of a elementary school to do your ticket.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  That person, I'm going to say it's a he. I don't know.

• 1:01:41Dax Shepard?

  You sexist.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  Probably has to have so many tickets.

• 1:01:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, exactly. Meeting their quota with parents that are struggling to get to work on time. I think we could pick on a better. Let's go in front of an agency.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  Is it a showbiz school?

• 1:01:56Dax Shepard?

  No, no, no.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  Cause in a way I'd sort of go like, it's a fair cop.

• 1:02:00Dax Shepard?

  No, and in fact, it has more kids on free lunch than probably any other school in the city. So no, it's the opposite. Yes, no, these people can't afford a ticket.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  Let one of those people say it, not you.

• 1:02:13Dax Shepard?

  I gotta use my privilege for good. I'm trying to protect these people, Monica. I can't believe you're not supporting this.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  You're not protecting them. You're protecting yourself.

• 1:02:21Dax Shepard?

  No, I don't care if I get a ticket. I literally.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  No, we fight all the time.

• 1:02:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's part of the charm, I guess, for sure.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  I've got a very weird relationship with.

• 1:02:30Dax Shepard?

  Money.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I do too.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  I think I just need a bit of therapy for it.

• 1:02:36Dax Shepard?

  So yeah, so if you don't cast me on your show, I could also work you through financial insecurity. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  Thank you very much.

• 1:02:42Dax Shepard?

  Services I provide.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  Do you know what's weird about writing a show that does have sex in it?

• 1:02:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  Is that then you just get embarrassed when you send it out to people.

• 1:02:52Dax Shepard?

  That they think you're a pervert or something?

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  I can't lose that feeling.

• 1:02:57Dax Shepard?

  Is that the Irish Catholic?

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, Rob and I used to get it a bit when we would write these sex scenes like side by side. And then all of a sudden, we'd realize that we're writing for each other and we'd get really embarrassed and awkward. It feels like that when you write something and then you send it to an actor. Cause you're saying, we're gonna do it.

• 1:03:18Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  We're gonna be dead, we're gonna be kissing. It could be even more. Are you on board?

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like asking someone out in real life. It's vulnerable.

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  God.

• 1:03:28Dax Shepard?

  But I would think this is where the positive side of being a woman, that side of the coin you should embrace. Which is if I write that scene and I send it to Sydney Sweeney and I'm a 50 year old dude and I send this scene. I got this great scene I wrote for us.

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  Do that there.

• 1:03:44Dax Shepard?

  No, I shouldn't. I agree.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  That's a bit Woody.

• 1:03:47Dax Shepard?

  I agree.

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:48Dax Shepard?

  I'm with you.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  That's a bit Robert Deval, Emma Watson.

• 1:03:51Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I'm in full agreement. That's why I'm using it to illustrate my point. But you can do that and it's totally fine and you should feel nothing about it. Yes. If you've earned anything, it should be that, is that we know you're not a predator. Generally, women are not predators, so you're free, free to do that. There are some.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  There's a few.

• 1:04:10Dax Shepard?

  Thank God.

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  I don't know any.

• 1:04:14Dax Shepard?

  If you're a predator and you're a female, please in the comments, signal yourself out.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  Are you vaping?

• 1:04:19Dax Shepard?

  It's a nicotine spray.

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  Oh, a spray?

• 1:04:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so it's a very healthy delivery system.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  I was very addicted to vaping and nicotine gum and occasional rollies. And so I did some hypnotherapy about. Four years ago.

• 1:04:34Dax Shepard?

  Well, that brings us to my very last question for you. We've arrived.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:04:39Dax Shepard?

  So you quit drinking for three years.

• 1:04:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:42Dax Shepard?

  And you loved it, right?

• 1:04:43Speaker 02

  I did. Apparently I was annoying.

• 1:04:45Dax Shepard?

  You loved it so much, you talked about it?

• 1:04:47Speaker 02

  I did a little bit. I wasn't evangelical, but I was just suddenly going on walks for no reason other than to enjoy the beauty of the walk. And prior to that, there had to have been a pub at the end of it. So what it did was sort of just give me a whole new perspective. And I kind of loved it. And I figure my brain was like on fire at the time.

• 1:05:11Dax Shepard?

  When you go a couple of years without a hangover, for me, I had hangovers every single morning for a decade, to not have hangovers.

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:19Dax Shepard?

  It was almost unimaginable, like so much of my life was dealing with a hangover.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:23Dax Shepard?

  And going to work and hoping it would break and, oh, I'm sweating. Okay, it's gonna break. Just that whole madness. And then when we had kids, and even we'd be on vacation with our pod, Monica's a member of, and they drink and we don't, and I'd wake up and I'm like, I can barely deal with the kids without a hangover.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:39Dax Shepard?

  I can't imagine what it's like to deal with kids with a hangover.

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  God, I remember. It's awful.

• 1:05:44Dax Shepard?

  So my great curiosity is like, what brought you back?

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  Oh, my dad died.

• 1:05:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you're dead.

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's a good reason.

• 1:05:50Speaker 02

  But it wasn't like my dad died and I had to have a drink. I just wanted to, with my brothers and sisters, drink a Guinness. We all needed it. But I didn't go back in like full bore. It was very, very occasional. And I was still on my sort of like smug thing because I was like, I just don't drink in the same way anymore. And then like suddenly it just sort of creeps in again.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  It's a habit.

• 1:06:17Speaker 02

  And then the next thing, because I remember saying to my daughters, do you remember when I used to drink a glass of wine every night with dinner? Then sometimes I would have two glasses of wine. And they couldn't remember it. And I was like, well, that's great.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  Because I thought that would be something that they'd be really aware of.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  So I started slightly getting back into that. Now I've stopped. It was like the excitement of suddenly drinking again.

• 1:06:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  I got a bit giddy. I was buying nice wines. It was like, I remember when I started eating meat. For the first time after sixteen years, it was so horny for meat. I was just like, give me meat. So it was a bit like that with the booze. And now the last few days have been nuts because of the parties. But it has adjusted things a bit and it's not like a habit. It was a habit before where you don't even notice that you're drinking wine because you're just always drinking wine.

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have that.

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  I a hundred percent have that. But I, I don't know, I'm back and forth on whether I care.

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  But you know what? What happened was, and you know the way your phone sort of really gets into your head and sends you loads of videos about whatever it is you're fretting about. So while I was not drinking, it kept sending me all these videos about how terrible booze is for your brain.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  So it fed into my smugness and I was like, this is brilliant. Everything is positive about this. And now they're continuing to come up and I'm like, no, no, no, no. No, don't look at me.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  I know. Yeah, the algorithm is really on one right now about no alcohol, but whatever.

• 1:07:42Dax Shepard?

  There's some really unfortunate studies, I think.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  Well, what about also all the hundred year old people who drank every day? No one wants to talk about them anymore. They used to talk about them a lot.

• 1:07:52Dax Shepard?

  And they used to tell you, you have to drink a glass of wine a day. You'll be good for your heart.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  And now it's crazy.

• 1:07:56Dax Shepard?

  They're all over the map.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I mean, I think red wine.

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  It's fine.

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  On the continent.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  It's tasty and it's fine.

• 1:08:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:04Dax Shepard?

  On the continent. Did you drink Beamish?

• 1:08:07Speaker 02

  I've never loved Beamish. It's too sweet. Were you Beamish? Really? But not Guinness?

• 1:08:12Dax Shepard?

  I love Guinness.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  I love Guinness.

• 1:08:13Dax Shepard?

  You'll be happy to know I literally forced Monica to have a Guinness when we were in London.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  They're not really for me.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, but come here, London, London Guinness is not all that.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  So that maybe that's the issue.

• 1:08:24Speaker 02

  Unless you have the Devonshire. Have you been to the Devonshire?

• 1:08:26Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:27Dax Shepard?

  Unless it was across the street from our hotel. Unless that was the one.

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  Where was your hotel?

• 1:08:31Dax Shepard?

  Claridge's?

• 1:08:32Speaker 01

  No, we weren't at Claridge's. We were at.

• 1:08:35Dax Shepard?

  Another one of those.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  It's not, it's not far from there.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  It wasn't that place.

• 1:08:39Dax Shepard?

  It was kind of a shithole. There's no way it was this one you're thinking of.

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  They do quite good Guinness. And then obviously if you go to Dublin or anywhere in Ireland.

• 1:08:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's so good. So smooth.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  It's just very thick.

• 1:08:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  It's a little thick.

• 1:08:54Dax Shepard?

  Well, Sharon, you're as lovely in person as you are on screen.

• 1:08:57Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 1:08:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, this has been so fun.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  Sorry, I was a bit hungover because it was from two days ago.

• 1:09:04Dax Shepard?

  You're just exhausted.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've needed to weep for about the last forty minutes.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Oh, no, you could have told us.

• 1:09:10Dax Shepard?

  Also, you can go on the couch.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:09:11Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:09:16Dax Shepard?

  We adore you.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:09:17Dax Shepard?

  Everyone, watch the 96 projects you're in.

• 1:09:23Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:09:29Dax Shepard?

  This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time. But even dream jobs have some not so dreamy parts. The stuff that gets in the way of the actual work. Now, that's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it, start to finish. Cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is, are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as I am?

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  They never are.

• 1:10:13Dax Shepard?

  To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. We get support from our sponsor, Lilly. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Gleepran. Foundo is a once-daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

• 1:10:44Speaker 04

  Foundo should not be used with other GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Foundo is safe and effective for use in children. Don't take Foundo if you're allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had majorary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrineoplasia syndrome type 2. Stop and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump, or swelling. swelling in your neck or severe stomach pain. Serious side effects may include inflamed pancreas and gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes. If you're nursing, pregnant, plant to be, or taking birth control pills, and before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. Taking Foundao with an insulin or sulfonylurea may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and may cause kidney problems. Once Daily Foundao is available by prescription only

• 1:11:26Speaker 04

  in 0.8 milligram, 2.5 milligram, 5.5 milligram, 9 milligram, 14.5 milligram, and 17.2 milligram tablets. Learn more at foundao.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX. Now is perfect to talk to your doctor about Foundao.

• 1:11:41Dax Shepard?

  We get support by Peloton. You know that feeling when you're spiraling over a problem and you just can't figure it out? When that happens to me, I need a change of pace. And I've found that running is the best way. It takes my brain out of the driver's seat, and I come back with a fresh perspective. Running can be freeing and cathartic, and Peloton helps you feel all of that. And now that feeling fits wherever you need it with the new Peloton Tread Flex. It's movable and foldable, designed to fit your life. So next time you feel stuck, you can go for a run literally anywhere, whether that's in your office, living room, or even the attic. Plus, they have classes with expert instructors and programs to meet you at any level and keep you moving. Let yourself run.

• 1:12:25Dax Shepard?

  Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com. We get support from Instagram teen accounts. So we talk a lot on this show about how the world is different now than when we were growing up. And one of the biggest differences is obviously social media. And I think a lot of people wonder, okay, what's actually being done to make it safer for teenagers?

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  Which is a fair question.

• 1:12:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so Instagram has got something called teen accounts, and they come with automatic protections built in by default. So anyone between 13 and 17 is automatically placed into this experience. They get age-appropriate content settings, contact limits, so that by default, only people they're already connected to can message them. And time management tools, daily time limit reminders, and also sleep mode that mutes notifications. From 10 PM to 7 AM.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  Sleep mode is genius.

• 1:13:15Dax Shepard?

  Right? And here's the thing, for anyone under 16, a parent has to give permission to change any of those settings to be less strict. The guardrails are on and Instagram keeps building new safety features to create age appropriate experiences for teens.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  I am really glad Instagram is helping to give parents peace of mind with teen accounts.

• 1:13:34Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts.

• 1:13:46Dax Shepard?

  I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Okay, well, the last time I saw you.

• 1:13:57Dax Shepard?

  Yes, ma'am.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  Or the last time the people saw you and me, I guess.

• 1:14:01Dax Shepard?

  You and the people.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I am one of the people.

• 1:14:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  You're gonna go to the hospital.

• 1:14:07Dax Shepard?

  Which I did.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so tell everyone what transpired.

• 1:14:11Dax Shepard?

  Um, I went to the hospital. Um, they hooked me up to, no, I peed first, yawn.

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  You were able to?

• 1:14:21Dax Shepard?

  Yawn sample.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  Remind everyone what happened. You couldn't pee.

• 1:14:25Dax Shepard?

  I couldn't pee. It was painful. I got a crazy fever. I gave blood and yawn at my GP.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  That stands for general practitioner.

• 1:14:35Dax Shepard?

  Yes, although he's not. He's an internist and he doesn't like, but at any rate, um, and then my family was concerned I was sepsis.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:43Dax Shepard?

  Again, I don't know if you say septic or he has sepsis, he's in sepsis. There's something weird about sepsis, but I don't know. Do you?

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's like, and turns out I was in sepsis.

• 1:14:56Dax Shepard?

  He went sepsis.

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  He went sepsis.

• 1:14:59Dax Shepard?

  Or did he went septic?

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  No, I think septic is only about the tank.

• 1:15:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay, the septic field and the septic tank. Anyways, get there, do some samples. They hooked me up to a, um, Stronger antibiotic. My vitals are good, though.

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:15:16Dax Shepard?

  So I'm there for some hours. I get a bag of fluid. I, oh, yes. And then, and then he takes an ultrasound of my bladder. And, uh, and it's, it's full.

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:31Dax Shepard?

  But I just peed.

• 1:15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you didn't get a lot of pee out.

• 1:15:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So he's like, um, yeah, we're gonna have to do a catheter. And I was like, oh, no, of all the things in life I hope to avoid.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:46Dax Shepard?

  It was putting two feet of cable up my pee hole.

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:49Dax Shepard?

  God, I did not want to do that. So I think I've had one before, but I think I woke up post-surgery with it.

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  I, I also have had one, but it was gone by the time I woke up.

• 1:15:58Dax Shepard?

  And then I think I was on a tremendous amount of opiates in the hospital when they removed it or something. I don't know. I just have no memory of this.

• 1:16:03Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:16:04Dax Shepard?

  So I guess I'm not saying where I went or anyone's name. So this is, the first order of business was the nurse was going to, and she told me, I gotta put lidocaine in your urethra.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:16:14Dax Shepard?

  So she has this, um, uh, syringe about this big, about six inches long. It's a fat boy, right? There's a ton of fluid in there.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:16:24Dax Shepard?

  And, um, so she's holding my penis and she puts it, uh, right up to the urethra. And I'm laying on my back, trying to just be in another zone, right? And I'm just trying to.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  Are you worried?

• 1:16:34Dax Shepard?

  About getting erect?

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:35Dax Shepard?

  No, no.

• 1:16:36Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:16:36Dax Shepard?

  No, no, no, no. I am so terrified about getting this procedure.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Okay, that's good, I guess, for.

• 1:16:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  Positive side.

• 1:16:47Dax Shepard?

  So she has this syringe, she's, she's has it up to the, the, the hole. And I don't know if it was stuck or whatever happened, but there was an audible pop. And then the whole thing went in like boom, the whole, and I went, oh my God. Like I, I yelled, which I, oh my God. And she goes, oh, oh, I'm so sorry. That's not supposed to happen.

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  What? Oh, no, that's not what you want to hear.

• 1:17:14Dax Shepard?

  Obviously slowly put all that fluid in. But again, I think it was stuck or something. Maybe she pushed too hard and it just made this loud pop. And then it fucking just gushed. Six ounces of jam in my penis at once.

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  Wait a minute, was it?

• 1:17:30Dax Shepard?

  And I was like, whoa, whoa, rough, rough start.

• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  Was this nurse an armcherry?

• 1:17:36Dax Shepard?

  No, but I, I loved her and I learned a ton about her. We had a very, very like connected intimate conversation about like her, someone in her life who passed and like, we had had a really great time.

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  Okay. I feel like, I feel like this nurse is an armcherry and got like nervous.

• 1:17:54Dax Shepard?

  Was holding the armchair expert's penis?

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And like having-

• 1:17:57Dax Shepard?

  I don't think so because we were just speaking so candidly. She would have said she liked the show. I think that's where we were at.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:05Dax Shepard?

  No, I don't think she was an armcherry.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  I still do.

• 1:18:08Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Okay. So anyways, you know, that happens and then, and then they come back with the tube and then they put the tube in and I'm like, and it is, it's just horrendous. I can't believe you don't get anything or other than the topical like the king.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:23Dax Shepard?

  I guess it's just where I'm at. Such a baby. I mean, he's like zones where I'm a total baby, I guess. So it goes in, it's, it's insane. It's insane. And it takes so long because it's gotta go through your whole penis and then up and then into your bladder, which is deep in there. And it just feels like forever. And it's, it's the worst feeling. Then they blow up the balloon. Then they strap the bag to my flag and they, they stick the thing. Now my one complaint was like, big sticky pad to, to, to pin to, to secure the, uh, the bag and everything. And you know, I have hairy thighs.

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:18:57Dax Shepard?

  She slapped her right on there. I was like, take a set, let's get a razor. I'm mad, I'm mad I didn't advocate for myself.

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:19:04Dax Shepard?

  Because as it turns out, when I got home, she had put it up too high. So my penis was hanging down much lower than where that thing was, which was making the tube go upward.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19:13Dax Shepard?

  And pull my penis up. And I was a freaking pull the thing. So as soon as I got home, I had Kristen and Lincoln reattached it lower. And then we shaved my leg, but getting that thing off with all the hair. Okay, whatever.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19:24Dax Shepard?

  Here's, I'm-

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  Is it like belted?

• 1:19:27Dax Shepard?

  No, no, it's just, there's a hose and then I took a photo and I sent it to Eric and Aaron and they screamed out loud, both of them. They said, because you can tell it looks absolutely miserable. But there's a strap, but there's like, there's the sticky piece with clamps that hold the top of the hoses. And then you've got two elastic belts that go around two parts of your legs and then a big bag to fill the young.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:19:56Dax Shepard?

  You immediately look 85 years old.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:58Dax Shepard?

  I mean, there's so many funny things that happened over the course of the three days I had it. One was, we kept telling, you know, I kept complaining about the tube in my penis. And at one point, like, day two or three, I was emptying the bag in the toilet and Delta came into the bathroom and she goes, "Oh my God, Daddy, I thought you were saying that metaphorically, tube in my penis." She didn't know I had a literal...

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  What did she think?

• 1:20:27Dax Shepard?

  I don't know, but I loved that she knew to say metaphorically.

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:31Dax Shepard?

  I was like, so distracted by how wonderfully she said.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  Her vocab.

• 1:20:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I thought you were saying that metaphorically. Oh my God. And I go, I know. You immediately looked like you're in some serious medical. And I felt like it, you know, I felt like, what's going on? A week ago. Yeah, just a week ago, I felt indomitable. And now I have this bag and then the bag, and maybe, maybe other people have positive experiences with it. So I'm not bashing cathing.

• 1:21:03Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:21:04Dax Shepard?

  And again, a lot of these things, I think were just chickens coming home to roost. Cause you remember the cath, catheter cowboy commercial? It was a cowboy. He goes, "I've been cath, I've been cowboying for 25 years. I don't like pain when I cath."

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I forgot about that. And you've been making fun of that for years.

• 1:21:23Dax Shepard?

  The guy was like 75. I'm like, hold, let me get this straight. You started cowboying at 50?

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  He might have. Look, you're 50.

• 1:21:30Dax Shepard?

  I'm not ready to start cowboy and I'm ready to start riding a soft chair. The thing about it is, mid sneeze, I was like, oh my God. Anything abdominal.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:40Dax Shepard?

  It sucks because you have that balloon in there and also just the balloon at the end of your bladder. What it feels like is that painful moment, you have to pee so bad, you don't think you can hold it. It just felt like that for three days. And anytime I moved, it was just like the sharp pain in there. I hated it. I really, I did not enjoy it. Saturday I woke up and I said to Chris, and I'm like, I'm going in to get up, take it out today. I cannot wait till Sunday. She's like, okay, but remember, they didn't say that arbitrarily. So then she talked me off the ledge and I, I waited till Sunday.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 1:22:16Dax Shepard?

  I was so happy to get it out.

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:18Dax Shepard?

  I don't ever want one of those again.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  I understand.

• 1:22:21Dax Shepard?

  No silver linings. Let's go through them. I slept in the guest house for three days. And I really didn't do anything because I couldn't move or anytime I moved, it was just the worst grody feeling of like, I'm peeing my pants. Oh, I'm gonna add, this is too much information. Goading doodles was almost impossible because you're

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  Goading doodles?

• 1:22:40Dax Shepard?

  Going doodles.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  Oh, pooping.

• 1:22:43Dax Shepard?

  Because you're, you're really, I don't know about for a girl, but for a boy, you're using the same area to push the doodles and to push yawn out. Those two things are married for a boy. When you sit down on the toilet, you just push and everything comes out at once. But I have this tube and so there were times where I was trying to doodles.

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:02Dax Shepard?

  And all of a sudden pee just started coming out of around the tube.

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  Not in the tube.

• 1:23:08Dax Shepard?

  No. So it's, it's somehow it's pushing around the balloon inside the bladder.

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:23:14Dax Shepard?

  Also, you take these pills to make your yawn super dark orange. It looks like the McDonald's, you remember McDonald's orange drink?

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:23:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay. They gotta call orange drink. It wasn't orange or juice.

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:23:28Dax Shepard?

  I don't even know if it was orange soda, maybe orange soda. It was dork as hell.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  Okay. Okay.

• 1:23:34Dax Shepard?

  And I'm just on the toilet and I'm like, oh, fuck. In the, my penis can't be in the toilet because it's got a tube hanging coming out of it that's attached to my lower leg.

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  Okay. So the bag's like at your ankle?

• 1:23:46Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  It's that far down?

• 1:23:48Dax Shepard?

  Not at my ankle, but around my knee.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. I imagined it to post, I imagined it like high up.

• 1:23:55Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  Post the picture.

• 1:23:58Dax Shepard?

  No, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna crop the photo.

• 1:24:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:24:02Dax Shepard?

  So you can at least see the placement on the leg.

• 1:24:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:24:05Dax Shepard?

  All these pictures of Eric's dad as a wizard.

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  Sure. We touched on that last week.

• 1:24:12Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So I've. I've mocked out the offensive.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:24:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Yeah.

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  Ew.

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  Also, yeah, hold on.

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  The color, yeah, the color of the pee.

• 1:24:33Dax Shepard?

  Is McDonald's orange. Again, it's these specific pills they make you take because they want to be able to see the line in the bag really clearly. They don't want like see through yawn.

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  They don't want, wow, okay, because it's like, it's kind of.

• 1:24:45Dax Shepard?

  Can I have it back?

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  No, I'm still looking at it.

• 1:24:48Dax Shepard?

  Come on. I don't like this anymore.

• 1:24:52Dax Shepard?

  Can I have it back?

• 1:24:55Speaker 01

  Okay, the belt is made of like.

• 1:24:57Dax Shepard?

  I'll send you the whole one with my penis so you can see the. Great. Tube coming. Great. Fuck. So, yeah. And then, so I got it out and then I, I thought. Oh, that's my only problem in life is this, this catheter.

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  How did it smell?

• 1:25:13Dax Shepard?

  There wasn't any smells, but I didn't, did I wrap up? Like, there's nothing more disconcerting than there's like yawn coming out. Around the, the tube.

• 1:25:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's uncomfortable.

• 1:25:23Dax Shepard?

  I'm like, what's happening? Where, why is there, shouldn't you hear me coming through this hose? What's wrong with the hose? The hose blocked? Why am I? I'm able to push yarn.

• 1:25:30Speaker 01

  Were you worried you were gonna get it in the tube somehow?

• 1:25:33Dax Shepard?

  No, no.

• 1:25:41Dax Shepard?

  I've had some follow up questions throughout this process, but these ones are definitely the best.

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  What about, um, was it warm, the pee on your leg? Yeah.

• 1:25:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  And that feel kind of good?

• 1:25:53Dax Shepard?

  I mean, it was really hard to enjoy anything. The other thing I was living in like abject fear of is like, fuck, I hope I don't get a boner.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  That's what, oh, you mean during it? Oh.

• 1:26:06Dax Shepard?

  With this hose in, like, sometimes you're sleeping and you just. You have a erotic dream and you wake up

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  morning would.

• 1:26:14Dax Shepard?

  aroused and I'm like, is it gonna jerk? What part of the tubes it gonna?

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  Huh, interesting. I'm sure there's some slack so that it.

• 1:26:23Dax Shepard?

  Kristen did not think this was a thing, but I, Eric and I thought it was a thing. I was texting with him most. He had to deal with most of my complaints.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:26:30Dax Shepard?

  And I said, Eric, I'm not going to masturbate, but don't you think they should have told me I can't?

• 1:26:37Speaker 01

  Maybe you can. I mean, seriously, some people have catheters in like for life. Like, I'm sure they have to masturbate.

• 1:26:47Dax Shepard?

  I don't think you can. And then also, where is the semen coming from? It doesn't come from your bladder and you have a two, like.

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  Your vast deference.

• 1:26:55Dax Shepard?

  Your vast deference is the muscle that's like pumping and pushing.

• 1:26:58Speaker 01

  The semen out.

• 1:26:59Dax Shepard?

  Anyways.

• 1:27:02Speaker 01

  Would go through the catheter?

• 1:27:05Dax Shepard?

  Well, the thing is, I don't think it can, because I don't think the semen goes into your bladder and then out your uterus somehow.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  It would leak out the way the, the.

• 1:27:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So a man can ejaculate while using.

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  Rob's pulled up.

• 1:27:16Dax Shepard?

  An indwelling urinary catheter.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  He Googled it. Okay.

• 1:27:21Dax Shepard?

  Though it requires specific consideration, depending on the type of catheter, the individual's comfort level, mine was low, and the desired sexual activity, mine was low. While intermittent catheters used for self catheterization are removed before sex. Indwelling follicaters are, can be kept in place. A sub, subrepubic catheter, which enters the bladder through the abdomen.

• 1:27:46Speaker 01

  Superpubic.

• 1:27:47Dax Shepard?

  Preferred for sexual activity as it doesn't interfere with intercourse.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  Okay. So if you have one for a long time, they probably give you a specific kind so you can have sex and masturbate. But yours was only a couple of days.

• 1:27:58Dax Shepard?

  And I was living in like absolute fear, fear of that happening.

• 1:28:03Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:28:03Dax Shepard?

  To the degree that I was like, oh, I might give myself one because I'm so afraid of.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  That's what I was about to say when you were talking about getting it inserted. Like this is what happens during waxes. Like it's so uncomfortable, but they're like. There's a little worry, like, what if?

• 1:28:22Dax Shepard?

  You get visibly.

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. And not because you're, you're into it, but just because like you're, you're convinced, you're worried.

• 1:28:32Dax Shepard?

  You're so afraid of it, you might manifest your fear.

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  Self sabotage. Yeah.

• 1:28:36Dax Shepard?

  Huh. So anyways, I got it out.

• 1:28:38Speaker 01

  Okay, great.

• 1:28:39Dax Shepard?

  Well, more than that, I was bold. I went out to eat on Saturday night. I was like, fuck this, I'm going out.

• 1:28:44Speaker 01

  You did?

• 1:28:45Dax Shepard?

  Yes. And I had to walk, I had to walk like a grampy. I could only walk like a step, like eight inch steps at a time.

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did you worry it was gonna fall out of your pants?

• 1:28:54Dax Shepard?

  Sure, but that, I knew it wouldn't happen because the balloon would catch it and it'd be start pulling my bladder through my body. So I was more nervous about that. Like, am I gonna feel, you know, we had a armchair anonymous nurse talking about a patient who ripped his catheter out with the balloon inflated. I kept thinking of that the whole weekend.

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Now, when I just saw that picture, it kind of reminded me of my water babies.

• 1:29:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh, sure, sure, sure.

• 1:29:22Speaker 01

  You know, and I would make babies out of those grocery bags. And then I filled with water and cared around and it'd be my water baby. That kind of looked like a water baby.

• 1:29:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Oh, another interesting thing is I was, the one thing I was excited about was like, oh, cool. I, I kind of had my dream. I don't have to get up to go pee in the middle of the night. So I was looking forward to that.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:43Dax Shepard?

  Well, I woke up in the middle of the night, like 4 a.m. And I'm like, fuck, I have to pee so bad. What's going on? I have this bag on.

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:53Dax Shepard?

  Lift up my pant leg. It's a hundred percent full.

• 1:29:57Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:29:58Dax Shepard?

  So it's a hundred percent full. So I am trying to relieve it, but it's just backing up another bladder. So now I am feeling like I have to pee. So now I'm rushing to the bathroom, not to pee, but to, to fucking empty my bag. Monica, this is over. I might get fired from the acting job that I got.

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  It's sweet.

• 1:30:19Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:30:20Speaker 01

  Wait.

• 1:30:23Dax Shepard?

  Go ahead.

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  Did it, but was it a relief as soon as they put it in at least like then like, because you were all backed up with pee.

• 1:30:30Dax Shepard?

  No, and I, you know, my stubbornness, I maintain I probably didn't need that. I could have, it's not like, and then on my subsequent videos to get it removed, and they were looking at the amount of urine that was in my bladder when I got it. She said, well, that's, it wasn't a ton of urine. And I was like, yeah, I think anyways, who cares?

• 1:30:50Speaker 01

  Did they find out what happened?

• 1:30:52Dax Shepard?

  We'll get to that.

• 1:30:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:30:54Dax Shepard?

  I mean, they don't find out what happened, but all my blood stuff comes back and I have all kinds of different things going on, but I just wanted to finish by saying I had in my mind, I was going to feel like a million dollars when I got this catheter out on Sunday. And then I got the catheter out and I got home and I was like, oh, I still feel like shit, you know? I still have a massive infection. I'm still on like.

• 1:31:18Speaker 01

  Showing antibiotics.

• 1:31:19Dax Shepard?

  And I'm on really heavy ones now.

• 1:31:22Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 1:31:22Dax Shepard?

  That make you not feel good. So some of the results, one is E. coli was in my UTI.

• 1:31:28Speaker 01

  I said that you did not want to hear it, but I did say that.

• 1:31:33Dax Shepard?

  UTI, I think, prostatitis, like infection, your prostatitis. E. coli.

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  Weird.

• 1:31:39Dax Shepard?

  That was in the mix.

• 1:31:40Speaker 01

  But you didn't have any tummy troubles?

• 1:31:42Dax Shepard?

  I never had harnessed, no.

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's so strange.

• 1:31:46Dax Shepard?

  But I had had, did I ever tell you that part that right before I got the fever, I'd had a piece of.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  Bacon?

• 1:31:51Dax Shepard?

  Elk, I don't, yeah, elk.

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:31:54Dax Shepard?

  That Kristen had cooked while I was away. And I was like, that was in the fridge too long. I took some, a bite and I was like, I think we should throw this away. I don't think this is good. So had eaten.

• 1:32:04Speaker 01

  So you had one bite of it?

• 1:32:05Dax Shepard?

  One, just one bite.

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  Well, then maybe, maybe that was.

• 1:32:08Dax Shepard?

  And threw it away.

• 1:32:09Speaker 01

  Ew.

• 1:32:10Dax Shepard?

  So I don't fucking know, Monica, like what, I asked about my, they're not carb hormones, I call them carb hormones, but I don't even think I actually have carb hormones. I asked about those, that I just said is completely unrelated. He looked, he's like, there's nothing happening.

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  Did he say they're okay?

• 1:32:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he looked and said, there's nothing, there's nothing cooking here. These are fine.

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  I was like, I, so I diagnosed you with something.

• 1:32:31Dax Shepard?

  What did you have me on?

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  MRSA.

• 1:32:33Dax Shepard?

  Right, you have me on MRSA. And then, and he said, now that thing, MRSA is very common when you cycle and wear tight clothes. So he did recommend I use a surgical soap.

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Dax Shepard?

  When I cycle, I am disgusting. I sound like a complete Petri dish.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  You're just a person.

• 1:32:49Dax Shepard?

  You're just saying it to egg me on. Say even more. They tell you that they found anal warts all over my face?

• 1:32:55Speaker 01

  They did? Oh, wow.

• 1:32:57Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:32:58Speaker 01

  Okay, wait, but MRSA is scary. Like, remember when MRSA was this hu- there was a huge thing in the hospitals?

• 1:33:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:05Speaker 01

  And they were quarantined and stuff?

• 1:33:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:08Dax Shepard?

  I think there's degrees of it, but yes. All to say, I was a little sad that I didn't like spring back to full health.

• 1:33:18Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:33:19Dax Shepard?

  I think it's gonna be a longer process than I normally like. I'm impatient. I wanna feel good. I'm exhausted all day.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  Okay, so you're on antibiotics, you're washing with MRSA soap.

• 1:33:30Dax Shepard?

  No, I haven't gotten that yet.

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:33:32Dax Shepard?

  But I'll go get that.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  Okay, um, and you miss your pee bag a little bit.

• 1:33:38Dax Shepard?

  No, no, no. But again, chickens coming home to roost. The other thing I was thinking is I took a Uber home from the hospital

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:33:47Dax Shepard?

  on Thursday.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:33:48Dax Shepard?

  And there's a line in Chipp's where Steve Agee's a cab driver and he goes to pick me up.

• 1:33:55Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 1:33:55Dax Shepard?

  My character. And it's in front of the emergency room at the hospital. Agee's character goes, "Hold on before you get in. You don't have any fucking leaky tubes or bags or anything, do you?"

• 1:34:06Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:34:07Dax Shepard?

  And because I made fun of people that might have tubes and leaky bags, I gave myself one.

• 1:34:13Speaker 01

  Sim.

• 1:34:14Dax Shepard?

  And then the making fun of the Catherine cowboy.

• 1:34:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:16Dax Shepard?

  So man, the chickens, they're home, they're roost, roost, roosting.

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  Simmy, sim, sim. Wow.

• 1:34:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What are your thoughts about all this?

• 1:34:25Speaker 01

  Oh, I, I mean, I love it. I mean, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that it was painful and uncomfortable. And did it? So I had a catheter put in when I got my eggs frozen.

• 1:34:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you did?

• 1:34:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I didn't know. They told me after they had to do that.

• 1:34:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:34:43Speaker 01

  And it hurt after to pee so bad for a while. So does it hurt still? Cause it's like sore.

• 1:34:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, the whole thing sucks.

• 1:34:57Dax Shepard?

  I am insistent, I am willing.

• 1:34:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:35:01Dax Shepard?

  That I am gonna wake up Thursday morning somehow.

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:35:04Dax Shepard?

  And I'm gonna feel a million. Bucks.

• 1:35:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:35:09Dax Shepard?

  Like a million bucks.

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  I think you will, but I think you need to be smart about these next few days if you want that to be true. This isn't just gonna happen like a miracle.

• 1:35:17Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  You need to be careful with how you're treating your body over the next few days.

• 1:35:22Dax Shepard?

  I'm taking my medicine.

• 1:35:23Speaker 01

  Take it easy.

• 1:35:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I left out a silver lining. I was in that, I was in the guest house for three days by myself.

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:35:30Dax Shepard?

  And I got to watch a lot of TV.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:35:33Dax Shepard?

  And guilt free.

• 1:35:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:34Dax Shepard?

  Cause I can only watch so much and I start getting mad at myself.

• 1:35:37Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:35:37Dax Shepard?

  This was like, go for it. And I watched the entire house of Guinness.

• 1:35:41Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:35:42Dax Shepard?

  Stephen Knight, Peaky Blinders.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:45Dax Shepard?

  It's very Peaky Blinders.

• 1:35:46Speaker 01

  Oh, fun.

• 1:35:47Dax Shepard?

  And it makes you want to drink Guinness so bad. So I ordered Guinness NAs.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  Oh, fun.

• 1:35:55Dax Shepard?

  And at night I get in my bed with my tube hanging out of my dick and I would have my little pint glass and I let it breathe the way they said in the show.

• 1:36:03Speaker 01

  And you watch your programs?

• 1:36:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I'd sip my Guinness with my piss tube in.

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:36:07Dax Shepard?

  And I really liked it.

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  This is a ding ding ding.

• 1:36:10Dax Shepard?

  Why?

• 1:36:11Speaker 01

  Cause this, we talk about Guinness on Sharon.

• 1:36:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yes, we do. We do. That's right.

• 1:36:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's exciting.

• 1:36:21Dax Shepard?

  Their NA is really good.

• 1:36:23Speaker 01

  That's great. Not as good as Ted Seeger's.

• 1:36:25Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's as good as Ted Seeger's. That's what they say. That's what they're saying. Everybody.

• 1:36:32Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:36:39Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Skims. So Monica just informed me that she's a girl's girl and I nodded like I knew exactly what that meant.

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the girls who get it, they get it.

• 1:36:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but for those of us who are clearly not girls, walk me through it.

• 1:36:54Speaker 01

  Well, you know how much I love my Skims fleece joggers because the plush fleece is so soft. It's cozy. It's really comfortable without feeling too heavy. Well, I went to friend them and she would not stop talking about how comfy they were. She almost didn't give them back to me, which was upsetting, but I'm a girl's girl, so I let her have it.

• 1:37:11Dax Shepard?

  Great, great, great.

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  So the sleep sets are awesome because they are very soft and comfortable, but they're cute. If I'm in my sleep set, I feel fine about going down the street to pick up my food. I'm still looking cute, but I'm comfy and I'm cozy.

• 1:37:26Dax Shepard?

  Roger.

• 1:37:27Speaker 01

  A really fun thing to do is if you're going on vacation with your girlfriends, to get matching Skims pajamas. I've done this with Callie and it is so fun. First of all, the pics are so cute, but also it's just fun and friendship.

• 1:37:39Dax Shepard?

  So a girl's girl is looking out for your friends with better loungewear. I get it. Am I one of your girls now?

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  You are. You and the other girlies can shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.

• 1:38:05Speaker 01

  Wow. Well, that is harrowing. You went through a lot.

• 1:38:08Dax Shepard?

  How was your weekend?

• 1:38:09Speaker 01

  Um, my weekend was good because while you were going through that, at the same day, actually, Taylor Swift dropped her album.

• 1:38:19Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I know. I listened.

• 1:38:21Speaker 01

  Okay, yes.

• 1:38:22Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  Yes, so.

• 1:38:23Dax Shepard?

  How does one eventize a whole day? Like for what was your whole, what was your day? It's dedicated to that, right?

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  Well, so it dropped Thursday at, I guess, midnight East Coast, so nine hour time, which, you know, there are, there are moments in life where I feel just so, so, so grateful to be on the West Coast.

• 1:38:43Dax Shepard?

  For the time.

• 1:38:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is one.

• 1:38:46Dax Shepard?

  Super Bowl.

• 1:38:46Speaker 01

  Super Bowl is always one. I'm always very grateful. Now, um, so I was working, editing, I must have been, because I didn't have time to listen that night. And I'm on a group text, okay, with three other Swifties. Two are.

• 1:39:06Dax Shepard?

  Molly?

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  Uh huh. Molly, Jake and Audra. Two, one is the biggest Swiftie I've in the world.

• 1:39:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:39:13Speaker 01

  And people are gonna be so mad at me for saying that because they're gonna be like, no, I am. And then.

• 1:39:17Dax Shepard?

  That's Jake?

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, Jake. Molly is number two. She's very, she's, she's very high up on the Swiftie scale.

• 1:39:24Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  Audra and I are some deviations below that.

• 1:39:28Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  But love her so much, obviously.

• 1:39:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:32Speaker 01

  So anyway, I'm like trying to not really look at my phone because these texts are.

• 1:39:38Dax Shepard?

  They started at nine.

• 1:39:39Speaker 01

  They started at nine, they're coming in, they're talking about each song.

• 1:39:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:42Speaker 01

  And I was like, oh, fuck, like, I don't know what anyone's talking about.

• 1:39:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:46Speaker 01

  So I start listening Friday around two, West Coast time. And, and it's fun. It's easy listening.

• 1:39:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it comes out, it's, it's very easy to consume.

• 1:39:58Speaker 01

  It's very.

• 1:39:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, this is Taylor Swift.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  It's, it's breezy, it's, it's poppy, like, it's, it's fun. I enjoy it a lot.

• 1:40:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:08Speaker 01

  I.

• 1:40:12Dax Shepard?

  While we're, we're inching closer to someone, we're like crawling, we're crawling.

• 1:40:17Speaker 01

  No, I love her so much.

• 1:40:18Dax Shepard?

  We're making our way to like the edge of the cliff where the bad guys might be able to see us, but we can, we can take.

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  I know. I mean, yeah, this is one of those things. You can't say anything, but I'm gonna like. I, I thought it was great. I've been listening to it a lot. It's, it's fun.

• 1:40:34Dax Shepard?

  And is it a shower or a grower? Is it like, the more you listen to, the more you appreciate it?

• 1:40:38Speaker 01

  The more I listen, the more I like the sound.

• 1:40:42Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh. But the lyrics for you are, are not hitting the way some of them have.

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the reason she's so special to me is because of her poetry.

• 1:40:55Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  The way she writes. I do think this album isn't.

• 1:41:00Dax Shepard?

  Reflects.

• 1:41:00Speaker 01

  Best lyrically of hers.

• 1:41:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:41:04Speaker 01

  That's okay. Not everything has to be the best.

• 1:41:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:10Speaker 01

  There's one song on there, Father Figure, that I think is.

• 1:41:16Dax Shepard?

  Michaels.

• 1:41:17Speaker 01

  Is George Michaels. Yes, he's credited on it.

• 1:41:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  I think that is quintessential Taylor lyrics. I think it's so smart and good. It has this great turn and I love it.

• 1:41:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:28Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 1:41:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:30Speaker 01

  But the rest are kind of like.

• 1:41:32Dax Shepard?

  They're fun.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  They're just fun.

• 1:41:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:34Speaker 01

  And that's fine.

• 1:41:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  There is a song. I don't know if you've heard about already all the like drama, there's drama.

• 1:41:44Dax Shepard?

  Please tell me.

• 1:41:45Speaker 01

  Okay, there's a song that's about.

• 1:41:49Dax Shepard?

  So romantic?

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  Actually romantic.

• 1:41:51Dax Shepard?

  Actually romantic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who is it about? Is it about KZZ Swigs?

• 1:41:56Speaker 01

  Charli XCX.

• 1:41:57Dax Shepard?

  Charli XCX.

• 1:41:58Speaker 01

  You're really dating, you in the bag.

• 1:42:02Dax Shepard?

  Pairs nicely with my piss bag.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  Charli XCX is seemingly about her. It's not a nice song. You know, it is, it is not a nice song.

• 1:42:16Dax Shepard?

  Well, okay, now, great. There's already, I've heard that. That's not how I've heard the reaction.

• 1:42:22Speaker 01

  Really? What have you heard?

• 1:42:24Dax Shepard?

  Well, the reaction is like, what a cool way to turn this endless, you're this, I'm that into like, I'm kind of flattered by your obsession. It's actually quite romantic that you're thinking about me that much.

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:42:40Dax Shepard?

  Which is, it's a little catty.

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  It's so catty. It's so catty. Look, by the way, it is a bop. Like, I, and I'm kind of, I feel very personally conflicted about this because I really like the sound of this and I like find myself singing.

• 1:42:59Dax Shepard?

  Really grooving to it? Yeah, moving your hips and your shoulders.

• 1:43:02Speaker 01

  And yet I am fundamentally kind of like, you're the most famous person on the, you don't need to do it. You just don't need to do that.

• 1:43:12Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, I think this is where you're seeing tension between the internal identity and the, and the external identity. So yeah, she's the biggest pop star to ever be. This is below her. But what, to me, it's like, she'll always. Be the mid level kid in school.

• 1:43:31Speaker 01

  That's who she feels.

• 1:43:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, she will always be that in her heart, like a mid level kid in school. And I don't know anything about Charli XCX, but the name makes me think she feels like that she's owning her sexuality. I've literally haven't seen a picture of.

• 1:43:49Speaker 01

  She's cool. Yes, she's cool.

• 1:43:51Dax Shepard?

  So when your internal identity is stuck in eighth grade and someone who's cool, then you don't, you lose sight of the fact that, no, actually I won the bigger war. This is kind of below me. This is me, this is my dissonance when I am the boss of a hundred people on a set of a movie. It is really hard for me to understand that. It shouldn't be, but it is.

• 1:44:13Speaker 01

  I, I, I, I know.

• 1:44:15Dax Shepard?

  Like I'm against the principal at high school and the, and the boss. So to be one is so confusing.

• 1:44:22Speaker 01

  Yes, I understand. And I, that's exact, I think actually that is a through line through this whole album. I think there's a lot, there are parts of it that to me read like all these cool kids rejected me. And so I'm kind of swinging back into this other direction. Or just this like Hollywood didn't like me, so I'm choosing a simple life. There's a lot of interesting stuff in it that I'm, that is funny because for me, I'm just like, oh, I know that's how you, that is how you perceive what's going on and that's your, that's your internal stuff to work on.

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  Because that is not true. You're a billionaire because the world showed up for you, the world, not just. Middle America, the coast, everyone voted, you know, and everyone picked you. But I also, yes, it's endearing. We all just have stuff that we have to work on. But I do think if you are at that level, you have a bigger responsibility than most to work on it. Or to have someone tell you like, hey, you're punching down.

• 1:45:36Speaker 01

  I know you don't, you can't see it.

• 1:45:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:39Speaker 01

  But you objectively are.

• 1:45:41Dax Shepard?

  But can I, can I devil's advocate that?

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:45:44Dax Shepard?

  And I don't, I don't really have an opinion on it. I don't know enough about the players and I don't, but my devil's advocate argument would be like, no, no, your obligation as an artist is actually write about whatever you're going through. And not try to be like, not try to be the person you're hoping to be in three years. And maybe in three years she'll be what you wanted this to be. But she's clearly annoyed and it's taking up space in her head that this girl wrote this song about her. And that's the reality of what she's processing.

• 1:46:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:46:11Dax Shepard?

  And in that way, I think that's the exact song she should write. And then maybe in a year, she'll be able to look back like I got that venom out of my system. And that was below me. I should have been above that. And that'll be a part of the process. And then hopefully she'll put that experience on the next album. But my, my devil's advocate would simply be like, no, I don't think you should ever write for who you should be. I think you should write for exactly what you are right now and what you're going through. And you gotta like, live with the, the mistakes that are inherent in that.

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think you're right about that. I don't, I think she should write anything she wants to write.

• 1:46:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:46:50Speaker 01

  What you choose to put out in the world when you are.

• 1:46:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. You're saying it's not the most attractive look, whether you support her right to do it.

• 1:47:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, exactly. Of course it's her right. She can do whatever she wants, but it's, to me, it's like, own the unfairly or fairly. It's, it's gonna be a little hard for me to say unfairly when it comes with a lot of prizes.

• 1:47:19Dax Shepard?

  Is that when this has happened, these are girls she gave a shot to.

• 1:47:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, she feels betrayed.

• 1:47:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so that's deep, right?

• 1:47:25Speaker 01

  It's very deep. And I have people I wanna, I have plenty of things I wanna say and I never will.

• 1:47:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  And I am not her. That's the other, it's like, if I don't get to, then you surely can't.

• 1:47:38Dax Shepard?

  This is what's great too, is obviously we see in each other what we see, what we're struggling with ourself. And, and I would, I would say you are her actually. And I don't, I don't know that you, I can, it's hard to update.

• 1:47:53Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not her. We have to be very, we, we just literally have to look at our Instagram following and be realistic. I'm not trying to be her.

• 1:48:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I know. I'm just saying, I think you should identify with it because I think it's hard to onboard.

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  But all to say, I feel a responsibility, like, and there are things I would love to say to the world that I'll never, ever, ever say to the world.

• 1:48:16Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:48:16Speaker 01

  And it is because it's, it's not the right thing to do.

• 1:48:22Dax Shepard?

  It's not gonna make the world better.

• 1:48:23Speaker 01

  It's not. It's not gonna make the world better and it's causing pain.

• 1:48:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  For no reason. And that's for me to deal with in my, in therapy, not, you know? Again, I'll write about it, do whatever, but to put it out is a real, real, real choice.

• 1:48:38Dax Shepard?

  Last counter. Just thought of it. There's nothing in the history of rap that's been better for the industry than the feuds.

• 1:48:44Speaker 01

  diss tracks, yes.

• 1:48:45Dax Shepard?

  They, they fuel everything.

• 1:48:47Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:48:47Dax Shepard?

  This whole Drake and I mean, I would not be surprised if we saw them having lunch in Italy somewhere.

• 1:48:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:48:53Dax Shepard?

  I mean, really.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:54Dax Shepard?

  And, and, and you, now that a lot of these rappers are, are long past that phase, you'll hear Ice, like Jay-Z's writing songs back in the day for, you know, East Coast, West Coast.

• 1:49:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:05Dax Shepard?

  Jay-Z's writing a Dre song, his most popular song. Like, none of that, a lot of that was not real and it was great for business. Is it possible that Taylor's like, yeah, this is below me, but like, this is part of the game. This is part of the product. And so now Charli XCX gets to write a counter song to this one.

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:49:24Dax Shepard?

  And that thing will pop and this thing popped and maybe it's just business.

• 1:49:29Speaker 01

  Look, it, she is, she is.

• 1:49:31Dax Shepard?

  A business genius.

• 1:49:32Speaker 01

  A true business genius. She's a mastermind. I would not be shocked if, yes. Also, look, this album is happy. She's happy right now and that's amazing. I want that for her.

• 1:49:46Dax Shepard?

  That's what I want to get to.

• 1:49:47Speaker 01

  She is happy and that is clear, right? And there are songs that aren't happy. Father Figure and, and this, that.

• 1:50:00Speaker 01

  I almost feel like she's so happy that she almost has to fi- like she has to find the fuel again.

• 1:50:09Dax Shepard?

  Like maybe manufacture a little bit.

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  Or yeah, mixed with like, oh yeah, what is bothering me? Oh yeah, Charli XCX did this. Like, I don't know that that's really on her mind all the time and I hope it's not.

• 1:50:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  Um, but.

• 1:50:24Dax Shepard?

  This is so fun because normally I'm a little critical.

• 1:50:27Speaker 01

  I know. I love her and I love that album.

• 1:50:30Dax Shepard?

  This has been a fun reversal.

• 1:50:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:33Dax Shepard?

  And it's been a joy.

• 1:50:34Speaker 01

  Well, because I can't, I'm not ever gonna just be like.

• 1:50:37Dax Shepard?

  Blindly.

• 1:50:38Speaker 01

  Blindly.

• 1:50:40Dax Shepard?

  So I.

• 1:50:40Speaker 01

  I'm listening nonstop.

• 1:50:42Dax Shepard?

  So Erica Muller came over on Sunday and I wanted to hear her opinion again, we as we know, she's a number one top tier Swifty.

• 1:50:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:50:51Dax Shepard?

  So I was asking what she thought of all the tracks and she was saying on this one, she loves the album. And I said, you know, it, there is a sad truth to art and, and I experience it and I'm aware of it, which is, I might have even said this, uh, you know, a few episodes. I'm watching Hit and Run and this is so cocky to say, but it's true. I'm feeling so much pride over the script. Forget everything else. And I'm just like, God, that was, that's as good as I could have done.

• 1:51:19Speaker 01

  You're proud of it.

• 1:51:19Dax Shepard?

  I'm very proud of it.

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:21Dax Shepard?

  And then immediate next thought is, I don't think I could write that. I wrote that script in two weeks.

• 1:51:28Dax Shepard?

  And I thought I just stepped on a dog. It was my background. I just was like, man, I don't think I could fucking write this. And it was the scariest feeling. And what I ended up coming up with is the only way I could write the sequel would be like, we start them divorced.

• 1:51:44Dax Shepard?

  And then we're figuring out what happened.

• 1:51:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:51:47Dax Shepard?

  Because the most recent thing I can even remember is that turmoil of having children and how you both get lost and like, but I, so I gotta go back a bunch of years. But in general, I'm so lucky, my life's. Pretty fucking good. I'm not like, I'm not wrestling.

• 1:52:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:06Dax Shepard?

  With.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  Demons.

• 1:52:08Dax Shepard?

  Pain, right?

• 1:52:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:09Dax Shepard?

  Which I do think is the fodder of art.

• 1:52:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:13Dax Shepard?

  And so when we were in the sauna, I was saying like, I applaud her if she can figure out how to be creative, happily married, happily financially secure.

• 1:52:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:22Dax Shepard?

  Accomplish her goals. I think that's a hard place to create.

• 1:52:26Speaker 01

  It's hard.

• 1:52:27Dax Shepard?

  And I was saying, like, if you look at her early music, like, if between seventeen years old and thirty, seventy percent of that audience is either looking to go out tonight to find love? Or they're dealing with having lost it.

• 1:52:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:52:44Dax Shepard?

  It's like a breakup or pursuit.

• 1:52:45Speaker 01

  There's a lot of emotional turmoil with relationships, with work.

• 1:52:51Dax Shepard?

  Establishing yourself in your identity as in a career, like, all the main topics that drive pop music. Unfortunately, she's just not, she's no longer embroiled in. She's not the only huge breakup. She's not dealing with, she's not dealing with getting love or falling in love. She's like, stable. And it's not, yeah.

• 1:53:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:07Dax Shepard?

  You know, it's a challenge.

• 1:53:08Speaker 01

  It's a challenge, but I also think you, like even you, everyone is wrestling with stuff. And you, you do have to be introspective about that, like your age or your relevance.

• 1:53:22Dax Shepard?

  I agree. I agree. I left that part out. So I'm definitely wrestling with stuff, but it's stuff that very, a very small percent of the potential audience is wrestling with. That's what happens is your potential audience narrows and narrows. So like mine right now is like existential work, identity loss.

• 1:53:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. But that's, but that is not narrow. I think a good artist makes something very specific, very universal. And I think that she has the capacity to do that and, and does that. Like she's writing about John Mayer, one person. And yet that song resonates with so many people. And it's specific. It is talking about his chess game. And, and so many people are like, I have, I know that person. I have this. I understand it. And same with these things as we get older too.

• 1:54:18Dax Shepard?

  But I think she'll write a motherhood album.

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  I do too. Yes.

• 1:54:21Dax Shepard?

  And I think that'll appeal. Deeply to whatever percentage of young people are mothers. But again, it's not this like 100% of people are looking for love in their twenties.

• 1:54:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:54:32Dax Shepard?

  You know, that's just, I think the fact and like all the pop songs are about love.

• 1:54:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.

• 1:54:39Dax Shepard?

  And.

• 1:54:39Speaker 01

  It's a obviously the most common.

• 1:54:41Dax Shepard?

  So the next thing she'll be able to do that has the broadest appeal will be to write like a really revealing and truthful album about motherhood. But again, it's just a much tighter when no one in their twenties is really.

• 1:54:54Speaker 01

  But again, I, I, I don't.

• 1:54:56Dax Shepard?

  You don't like that.

• 1:54:57Speaker 01

  I don't think it's true. I think it's the most obvious. It's the most obvious thing going on, but there are deep things going on with all of us all the time. And if you choose to deep dive into those things, like eldest, there's a song on there called eldest daughter. And like, that is, well, I think some people think that's about him, but I don't think it is at all.

• 1:55:23Dax Shepard?

  About who?

• 1:55:24Speaker 01

  About Travis, like, or connecting it to Travis, but I don't, I think it's about the responsibility of, of being the eldest daughter. And it's like, there are things like we're, we're just so, we're multifaceted.

• 1:55:38Dax Shepard?

  We are, but you could, you could look at our most prolific songwriters. There's a bell curve. And then you gotta ask yourself, why is there a bell curve? Does, does, does her brain deteriorate? You know, are they losing their creative? I don't think that's it.

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:54Dax Shepard?

  And then there are some artists that stay. But also look at their lives. There are people that never leave the cycle of love addiction and they can be writing about heartbreak and obsession into their sixties.

• 1:56:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:56:06Dax Shepard?

  And so, yeah, if you want to keep your life a mess, which some people did, but I think in general, if you look at people that kind of like, they deal with all these big mercurial events in life. I do think you just look at the output disappear and also that's, that's probably okay. That's, that's, that would be the hard part to get to, like, that would be my. Song or my script today, which so few people would, they're not at a place in their life. They would understand. It's like, can I let all that go and still love myself and think I have value and let go of something I worked so hard to get? Like, that's where I'm at in life.

• 1:56:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:56:41Dax Shepard?

  Could I make that message broadly appealing?

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  That's the challenge.

• 1:56:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:45Speaker 01

  That would be the challenge. Anyway.

• 1:56:47Dax Shepard?

  Any whom.

• 1:56:48Speaker 01

  Okay, let's do some facts.

• 1:56:49Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. I want to say Hogan. I'm going to be honest with you.

• 1:56:54Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:56:55Dax Shepard?

  I have these little hiccups with people's names sometimes, and this is one of them. I, in my mind, it's Sharon Horgan.

• 1:57:02Speaker 01

  I know why. It's because there's two Rs and that's confusing. Sharon Horgan.

• 1:57:07Dax Shepard?

  And what's Hulk Hogan's wife's name?

• 1:57:10Dax Shepard?

  Or daughter? Rob?

• 1:57:13Speaker 01

  I have no idea.

• 1:57:14Dax Shepard?

  You don't know off the top of your head what the Hulkster's family?

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  Candace Hogan?

• 1:57:19Speaker 05

  Sky, Brooke Hogan, Sky, Linda, Jennifer.

• 1:57:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:24Speaker 05

  He's had a lot of wives.

• 1:57:24Dax Shepard?

  There's no reason then.

• 1:57:26Speaker 01

  Oh, also he's passed. I forgot.

• 1:57:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, we lost him.

• 1:57:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's sad when people die.

• 1:57:31Dax Shepard?

  He entertained a generation.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  He really did.

• 1:57:33Dax Shepard?

  Oh, fuck.

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  He really did.

• 1:57:34Dax Shepard?

  I love the Hulkster when I was a little boy.

• 1:57:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:37Dax Shepard?

  I really did.

• 1:57:38Speaker 01

  What a character.

• 1:57:40Dax Shepard?

  He body slammed Andre the Giant. He's a 500 pound man. Tore his pec.

• 1:57:44Speaker 01

  When he did that, if Andre took a fart.

• 1:57:47Dax Shepard?

  When he landed, I'm almost certain he took a fart.

• 1:57:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Do you ever see the memes about Andre the Giant, how many beers he drank? I know in the doc, they talked about it.

• 1:57:55Speaker 01

  I don't remember.

• 1:57:56Dax Shepard?

  But there's these claims that's like, they seem to be substantiated that he drank like 126 beers.

• 1:58:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:58:02Dax Shepard?

  And I'm just like, I'm like, I understand that he's 500 pounds, but 126, that's, that's 10, 12 packs in a six pack.

• 1:58:11Speaker 01

  And it's, it's not like shots. It's like the, that's liquid.

• 1:58:15Dax Shepard?

  Cases of beer.

• 1:58:15Speaker 01

  No, I do not believe that.

• 1:58:17Dax Shepard?

  Farts he took.

• 1:58:18Speaker 01

  Ew.

• 1:58:19Dax Shepard?

  Oh, man.

• 1:58:20Speaker 01

  This is a ding ding ding. Do turkeys poop more than other farm animals?

• 1:58:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:58:25Speaker 01

  Turkeys do not necessarily poop more than other farm animals in terms of total volume, but they do poop very frequently.

• 1:58:34Speaker 01

  The larger and heavier an animal is, the more waste it generally produces. A turkey's waste output differs significantly from that of a cow or pig, both in volume and how it's concentrated. Like chickens, turkeys have a fast working metabolism that causes them to excrete waste often, as frequently as every 20 to 30 minutes.

• 1:58:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:58:53Speaker 01

  Wow, yeah, you were right.

• 1:58:56Dax Shepard?

  We're watching this nature show about dolphins, the girls and I.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:59:01Dax Shepard?

  And this very, very assertive bird lands on the boat. And the guy's just standing there doing his two camera thing. And all of a sudden, this bird just lands and it comes right up to his face. Like, I've never seen a more confident bird. It was not afraid of this human at all.

• 1:59:14Speaker 01

  That's nice.

• 1:59:15Dax Shepard?

  And then it's sitting there and they kind of are getting a bang out of it. And then it just goes, like, it just sprays.

• 1:59:20Speaker 01

  So rude.

• 1:59:20Dax Shepard?

  It sprays bird poop on the front of the boat. And then it does like four more squirts throughout the thing. And I'm like, I fucking hate how they squirt their poop. And then it brought back PTSD of that woman in the grocery store that we saw.

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:59:36Dax Shepard?

  Who pulled her jersey.

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  We didn't see, we saw a video.

• 1:59:38Dax Shepard?

  We saw a video.

• 1:59:39Speaker 01

  We did not see him.

• 1:59:40Dax Shepard?

  She pulled her jersey material shorts to the side and just squirted like a goose on the floor of a.

• 1:59:45Speaker 01

  In the middle of a grocery store.

• 1:59:47Dax Shepard?

  I mean, what?

• 1:59:48Speaker 01

  So, and like, we have a high tolerance for poop stories. And like, we understand that sometimes you have to tonka. But this was so, just like, go outside.

• 1:59:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, grab, I mean, also, like, here's what I would have done if it was like that and it was that desperate. She was in the vegetable section, grab one of the plastic bags that are everywhere around you and squirt into that.

• 2:00:13Speaker 01

  She didn't care about others.

• 2:00:15Dax Shepard?

  At all.

• 2:00:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:17Dax Shepard?

  She had no regard for anyone.

• 2:00:18Speaker 01

  I feel like if you're gonna do that, you liked it. Like, you enjoyed it. It's a kink. Although we have had some Armchair Anonymous stories where people do crazy stuff when they have to poop. And they're like, they're just like, my brain wasn't working.

• 2:00:33Dax Shepard?

  They're good people.

• 2:00:34Speaker 01

  And they're good people.

• 2:00:35Dax Shepard?

  They're really good people.

• 2:00:36Speaker 01

  So, I don't know, but I, it is such a disturbing.

• 2:00:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the way this, this bird was just. It's squirting.

• 2:00:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:47Dax Shepard?

  It's so gross.

• 2:00:48Speaker 01

  They're so smug about it.

• 2:00:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:00:52Speaker 01

  The waste called hot manure is very high in nitrogen and phosphorus compared to most other livestock manure. Cattle, the sheer size of cattle means they produce a much greater volume of manure per day than turkeys. A large dairy cow can produce more than a hundred pounds of manure daily.

• 2:01:09Dax Shepard?

  A hun- you!

• 2:01:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:11Dax Shepard?

  A cow shits you out every day.

• 2:01:13Speaker 01

  Every day, compared to a turkey's fraction of a pound. So they're doing a lot, but tinies.

• 2:01:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:21Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 2:01:22Dax Shepard?

  When I watch nature shows, I'm just so grateful that I'm an omnivore. Because if you're a herbivore, you have to eat so much to get any calories out of it. There's just no calories in hay. You have to eat a bale of hay and then dump a Monica.

• 2:01:38Speaker 01

  Does hay have fiber in it?

• 2:01:39Dax Shepard?

  I- seems to have. Yeah, I think it has a lot of fiber.

• 2:01:43Speaker 01

  Oh my God, imagine the constipation.

• 2:01:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:01:48Dax Shepard?

  And then it's gotta go through their four-chambered stomach, cuz it's like impossible to

• 2:01:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:52Dax Shepard?

  break down.

• 2:01:53Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:01:56Speaker 01

  Okay, I did a little more research on this.

• 2:01:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:58Speaker 01

  While the largest individual poop comes from blue whales and elephants.

• 2:02:02Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:02:03Speaker 01

  Animals that poop the most frequently are small, energy-intensive creatures, like some birds, ding ding ding, forty times a day.

• 2:02:10Dax Shepard?

  Oh my.

• 2:02:11Speaker 01

  Rabbits, two hundred to three hundred times a day.

• 2:02:15Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 2:02:16Speaker 01

  And penguins, six to eight times an hour.

• 2:02:19Dax Shepard?

  How are their butts not so raw?

• 2:02:22Speaker 01

  I hate rabbit poop.

• 2:02:24Dax Shepard?

  I don't hate it. I'm just so confused. Is that their food or the poop?

• 2:02:28Speaker 01

  Ew!

• 2:02:29Dax Shepard?

  Cuz their food looks identical to their turtles.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, how can they tell? They probably-

• 2:02:33Dax Shepard?

  They don't. They can't tell.

• 2:02:34Speaker 01

  They probably don't. Ew.

• 2:02:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay, last thing I'll say about duty. Because I just said it getting off the commode the other morning, Saturday morning. I said, I was about to, I was flushing. I was like, it is funny how disgusting we think it is when it is food. That's all you're looking at. You're looking at food.

• 2:02:54Speaker 01

  But mixed with-

• 2:02:54Dax Shepard?

  It's not like you're looking at, you know, a carcass. Like, it's just, it's just the food that you thought looked so good when you were putting it in your mouth. And now it, you know, nothing, that's its food.

• 2:03:05Speaker 01

  No, but it's mixed with like-

• 2:03:07Dax Shepard?

  Bacteria.

• 2:03:07Speaker 01

  Bacteria and stinky bile and stuff.

• 2:03:11Dax Shepard?

  I know. It's just, it is just food.

• 2:03:13Speaker 01

  It's good that we're not, we, that we don't think it's just food, because it is bad for, if we ate it, it would be very bad for us because of bacteria. So we don't need to get confused like the rabbits.

• 2:03:22Dax Shepard?

  I have a hunch, we have, once, once we started living in such compact societies, that's when diseases started spreading a ton. When we started living with animals, these are when like all these really wild pathogens. So I, I wonder if when we were hunting and gathering, if we had the same aversion to duty. Because again, no other animal does. They like go right up to each other while the other ones-

• 2:03:45Speaker 01

  They also though ate differently than we eat now. So the ways we're producing is so much more complicated than they were just eating like bear, natural foods.

• 2:03:54Dax Shepard?

  I think I'm meaning kinda like they ate, which is just like a tremendous amount of meat.

• 2:04:00Speaker 01

  But you would put mustard on it.

• 2:04:02Dax Shepard?

  I do, but that's a seed.

• 2:04:03Speaker 01

  But it's, yeah, but the one kind you eat isn't just mustard seed. It's, it's made into a paste sauce.

• 2:04:09Dax Shepard?

  I have no idea what kind of mustard I mean.

• 2:04:10Speaker 01

  Sugar. Actually, there's probably not added sugar, but whatever. It's not, it's not pure.

• 2:04:15Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:04:16Speaker 01

  Um, I love mustard.

• 2:04:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's a great condiment.

• 2:04:19Speaker 01

  Great for salad dressings. Okay. Oh, to the point that has she made the most shows? Aaron Spelling holds the Guinness World Records for, record for the most prolific TV producer, having created over 4,500 hours of television programming by 2003.

• 2:04:38Dax Shepard?

  Whoa.

• 2:04:39Speaker 01

  I saw this funny thing of Howard Stern talking about the summer I turned pretty. He loves it.

• 2:04:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he loves a lot of like teen shows and stuff.

• 2:04:48Speaker 01

  He's Team Conrad for people who are wondering.

• 2:04:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:04:51Speaker 01

  Okay, so you said that your kid's school, and I'm not gonna say what it is, um, has more free lunch than any other school in the city. I couldn't, they, there was no, it wouldn't let me find that.

• 2:05:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:03Speaker 01

  But that school, that school, um, forty-five percent of families qualify for free or reduced lunch. So that's a lot.

• 2:05:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:14Speaker 01

  Um.

• 2:05:15Dax Shepard?

  I feel like when I was in elementary school, you know, you knew the kids that were on welfare because they didn't have to pay for lunch. Like they, I forget what they had, but you'd be in line and you'd see it. And I think, you know, and I didn't grow up in like the fancy part of Michigan.

• 2:05:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:31Dax Shepard?

  I still think it was like only one in fifteen or twenty kids.

• 2:05:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:35Dax Shepard?

  Was on the free lunch.

• 2:05:38Speaker 01

  I wonder what, what qual, like, is it just family income, right?

• 2:05:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's just income.

• 2:05:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, shit. I forgot to find an important fact, which is where we stayed in London.

• 2:05:52Speaker 01

  It started with a C, but it was not cleared.

• 2:05:55Speaker 05

  Claridge.

• 2:05:56Dax Shepard?

  Claridge's.

• 2:05:57Speaker 01

  Nope, that's the same one we've been saying.

• 2:05:59Speaker 05

  Connaught.

• 2:06:00Speaker 01

  Nope, I've stayed there. That's a great hotel.

• 2:06:02Speaker 05

  Caesar Hotel.

• 2:06:04Speaker 01

  Maybe it doesn't start with a C. Maybe it starts with an M.

• 2:06:07Speaker 05

  An M?

• 2:06:09Dax Shepard?

  What's that little area we're in? It's by the theater district. West End?

• 2:06:12Speaker 01

  Corinthia.

• 2:06:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow, that wouldn't have even rung a bell for me.

• 2:06:17Speaker 01

  It was the Corinthia Hotel in London. That's where we stayed. And I don't think we went to the pub that she wanted.

• 2:06:26Dax Shepard?

  There's no way that was the pub. The pub we went into is like something that would be on the Jersey Boardwalk.

• 2:06:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't really authentic or nice.

• 2:06:35Speaker 01

  No, but it.

• 2:06:37Dax Shepard?

  They did serve Guinness on tap. That's all you can say about it.

• 2:06:40Speaker 01

  Yes. Speaking of, you know, we talked about drinking and, you know, of course, yes, there are all these studies. There's a lot to debate about.

• 2:06:49Dax Shepard?

  How bad is it?

• 2:06:50Speaker 01

  How bad is it?

• 2:06:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:51Speaker 01

  And this Harvard article says, yes, there are, of course, bad things, but it also says everything in moderation. So. Anywho, um, that is it for facts.

• 2:07:05Dax Shepard?

  Okay. God bless Sharon Horgan. She is a gift to us.

• 2:07:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:07:10Dax Shepard?

  Consume all of her stuff. She's so consistently great.

• 2:07:13Speaker 01

  Agree.

• 2:07:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:07:15Dax Shepard?

  All right. Love you.