Thomas Davis Sr. former All Pro linebacker on hiding the pain behind NFL greatness: 3 ACL tears, playing through addiction, life after football, divorce, fatherhood, Luke Kuechly, and the Super Bowl decision he still regrets

"I spent a lot of time and pain trying to hide things from everyone." Thomas Davis On this episode of the The Pivot Podcast, former NFL linebacker Thomas Davis Sr. sits down for one of his most raw and emotional conversations yet. From a childhood shaped by adversity to becoming an All-American at University of Georgia and a cornerstone of the Carolina Panthers defense, Thomas opens up about the journey behind the success fans thought they knew. He reflects on battling through three devastating ACL tears in the same knee, defying every expectation to return to the field and eventually becoming one of the most respected leaders in the NFL. Thomas also shares what it was like playing alongside Luke Kuechly, building one of football’s most feared defenses, and helping lead Carolina to the Super Bowl. He shares the one time he regrets not listening to Luke and the Lombardi it possibly cost him and his team. But beyond the accolades and highlight reels, Thomas speaks candidly about the darker chapters of his life — his dependence on painkillers during his playing career, the physical and emotional toll football took on him, and the personal consequences that followed after retirement. In a deeply vulnerable discussion, he addresses his divorce, the estranged relationship with some of his children, and the struggle to rediscover himself after the game ended. This is a conversation about resilience, accountability, pain, healing, and what happens when the cheers stop and real life begins. Powerful one, Pivot Family...comment, like, hit the subscribe button, we enjoy hearing and learning from you- the good and the bad, we want to know! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:28Ryan Clark?

  Thomas Davis's story is one that needs to be told by him, but this isn't just a football journey. A small-town kid from Shelton, Georgia, his mom raised him and his sister on practically nothing. She also made the ultimate sacrifice. One night, she sat down with Thomas, told him that in order to get more money, she had found a new job, but she had to move. And she gave Thomas the option to stay, which he did. And it was the best decision of his young life. He had a great high school career, a stellar career at the University of Georgia, and he ended up being the 14th overall pick to the Carolina Panthers. He became a three-time Pro Bowler, an All-Pro. And he had a run to the Super Bowl being the other guy, to Luke Keakley, the Hall of Fame linebacker.

• 1:12Ryan Clark?

  So overall, he made good on the sacrifice of his mother. But this story isn't without failure. Multiple ACL surgeries, wasted seasons, but bouncing back became a part of Thomas Davis's legend. But an opioid addiction brought it all crashing down, and we are going to talk about it all. He shares on what it was like to be teammates with some of the greatest to ever play the game in his "Welcome to the NFL" moments. Also, he tells you why he played so hard, why he loved the game so much, and the promise of family that he'd keep his family together as husband and wife, so his kids would have what he didn't. He talks about the injury that changed him, the drugs he used to cope, and the deterioration

• 1:56Ryan Clark?

  of the perfect husband and the perfect father, or at least the perception in his kids' eyes. Thomas was open, honest, vulnerable, and real. And I believe all fathers can benefit from this conversation. So please enjoy one of the best conversations we've had here on The Pivot with 15-year NFL veteran, Thomas Davis.

• 2:36Ryan Clark?

  Man Freddie T, we finally got a real line back on the show.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Ah shit.

• 2:40Channing Crowder?

  Man, y'all been waiting for this huh? Y'all give me a hard time. TD was a little bit better than me, but you know, we used to both knock each other's heads off, right? We used to hit people, man.

• 2:50Ryan Clark?

  We finally got a real back on the show from joy.

• 2:53Channing Crowder?

  And you too with that little gold zipper jacket, look at goddamn train conductor. You gonna come with me too?

• 2:58Ryan Clark?

  Man, welcome to the show, man. Thomas Davis, man.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Man, it took longer than enough, man. Golly, bro.

• 3:04Ryan Clark?

  My man, man.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  Sat back and watched the show for like four, five years and then, you know, saw everybody else come on the show, but then it just took me being in Pittsburgh at the right time to get invited, man.

• 3:16Ryan Clark?

  Well, we'll say this, it's actually the right time for a lot of people, most times when it happens and it just so happened, I knew you were gonna be here, so I reached out. I think a lot of people know where you ended up and they talk about the adversity you faced with the injuries and the way you continued to come back and play, but there's a place that that stems from. You know, your mom sits at the table with you in the 11th grade, you guys have been struggling and she says to you, "Thomas, I know all of these things are going well for you here, but I have to move to Alabama to give us a better chance at life." Talk about that conversation and your response to her in that moment.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  People don't really understand how hard of a decision that has to be for a mother, right? You know, now that I'm at a stage where, you know, I've had the opportunity to raise my own kids, I could never imagine saying to my kid,

• 4:13Speaker 02

  I'm leaving to go somewhere else and I'm leaving, I'm giving you the opportunity, not leaving you behind, but giving you the opportunity to stay behind. For me, I'm forever grateful for that decision because I had started to establish myself at my high school, you know, in every sport, football, basketball, track, dabbled in baseball a little bit, but I had became in essence the man at my school. So for me, my mindset was, I don't want to start over. You know, I don't want to go into a position right now, we move over to U of Alabama and then now I have to like reassert myself in being the man at a whole new school.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  And man, we had that conversation and you know, my mom allowed me in that moment to say, hey, I'm establishing myself. I have a goal. She knew, she had trusted me that I was going to make the right decision. Like and that's one of the things that you can see in your kids. You know, based on how you raised them, how they responded to the things that you've taught them, how they're going to respond and how they're going to act in certain situations. So she knew that it wasn't going to be a day that I didn't get up, go to school, do the things that I needed to do. Because at a young age, I had a, I had a mission. I had a, I had a mindset that it was all or nothing on getting a scholarship because I knew that we weren't going to be able to pay for school.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  So for me, I wanted to do something different than the guys that I had watched growing up. I wanted to do something different than, than some of the other talented players that I had saw come along. So it was all about doing whatever I had to do to get that scholarship.

• 5:54Ryan Clark?

  People say that life growing up is that bad. Was the life for you guys in, in Georgia, was it really that awful where your mother had to pick up and leave and leave her son?

• 6:08Speaker 02

  What's the, what's the, what's the worst situation that you could imagine being in, growing up?

• 6:16Ryan Clark?

  Not being able to eat, not having a home, not having clothes.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  It was worse than that.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  It was worse than that. Part of it is, you know, the environment. It's growing up in Shelton, Georgia, right? Is not very many opportunities down there. There's not a whole lot of, I mean, it's a real high poverty area, right? So there are not very many job opportunities. I mean, you're either working on a field or like some kind of farm type job if you're living in the city or you're outsourcing it. You gotta go somewhere else outside of the city. And you don't have adequate transportation. If you can't, you don't have a dependable car that's gonna get you back and forth, which we really didn't in that moment, then you can't really take on another job somewhere else.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  So for her to make that decision, it was extremely tough. She didn't wanna have to pick up and go. And what it did, it left me to grow up a lot faster, right? I started living with an older cousin that was like four years older than me. It wasn't a parent in the household, so I had to parent myself in essence. I had to make sure that I had all of the things. And I talk about it taking a village to really grow up and raise a man. And I had a village in Shelton, Georgia. Like I had a lot of people that really poured into me. And it really started with my high school football coaches. They were very, very involved in me becoming the person and the player that I became. So I'm forever indebted to them for the job that they stepped up and did and making sure.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  Like, I hear people give Teddy Bridgewater a hard time with the things that he did with the kids. And in essence, my high school coaches was Teddy Bridgewater. You know, they the one that took me to my first football camp at Georgia, took me to the football camp at Alabama. They took me to the game at Florida State, Florida. You know, my dad wasn't there to do that. My mom didn't do that. You know, it was a high school coach having an impact on me. So when I tell you that growing up in Shelton was extremely tough and I try to paint a picture for you of just how tough that really was. I go back home and I probably lived in about six or seven different houses.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Four or five of those houses have been torn down, like deemed unlivable. That's the impact and that's how tough it was at times growing up down there. TD, as a kid, when did you first realize that life was heavier for you than it was for for most kids that looked like you? You know, I think I learned at a very young age that my life looked a lot different than not just most kids that looked like me, than some of the kids that I grew up with. Like my best friend growing up, one of my best friends growing up, he grew up in a household that had both parents, right? Right next door to me, he had both parents living with him. His mom worked, his dad worked, his dad was a truck driver.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  And, you know, I got to experience and witness, you know, what their life was like. So I saw firsthand what it was like, you know, to grow up with both parents in a household. That's why that was something that I wanted to make sure as I grew up, I was able to do and give my kids. But at the end of the day, I had a living example right next door, but also I wanted to make sure that that didn't define me, right? I didn't want it to be a situation where I didn't accomplish or reach my goals that I had set out for myself because of my living situations growing up.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  Bruh, but that, that had to get some like, I don't, anger is an easy word to say. We both played backer, as they give me hell. You might have been a little bit better than me. But like, but that aggression, was that born into you or you going through all that stuff like, I need this football stuff? Because I think personally, I think growing up and just feeling that, at some point, I gotta take this out on somebody. Listen, I think growing up in Georgia is hard, period. You know, especially if you grew up in South Georgia, like we, listen, it's red clay, we outside all the time, we playing, we competing, we going against. And you see the dynamic right now where you see.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Kids playing with kids their age and that's it. When we grew up, we played with people that was five, 10 years older than us. We going out, we competing, we playing, throw them up, bust them up, getting the ball like, and we playing with older guys that were literally knocking us in sticker brow patches like, on purpose, like literally trying to, and it seems like I was always the dude that ended up with the football. So naturally, I had a competitive mindset from a very young age. And I always wanted to be the guy that had that glory at the end of it, because I beat some of the older guys. And man, they used to knock my ass, I'm telling you, bro, like, like it really wasn't fair, some of the shit that they did to us.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  Like, man, they would literally knock us into the, like, the sticker brow patch. And just sit there and laugh at us and we jump right up out of it, man. Like, that's where that mentality gets developed at though. That's where you start to gain that grit, that toughness, that competitive spirit. Because I ain't gonna sit over here and cry about it, I'm gonna try to get you back. Like, that's how it works. Like, we gonna, we gonna go at it. Time and time again, you ain't gonna, you ain't gonna make me shy away, I ain't gonna never be afraid. And that's where that mindset sort of develops at. So people, when you go into a situation where now I'm going to college and I'm going against, like, man, I've come from the toughest environments, I've come from the toughest situations.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  So there's nothing that's gonna happen at this university that I can't deal with, that I can't handle because of where I came from.

• 12:09Ryan Clark?

  But TD, with that, building that mindset, how does that play a part in getting through three consecutive ACL tears though? Right? Because, you know, Chan has dealt with knee injuries. When you start to get all the things that you've worked for and hoped for your whole life, and it seem like, God, ain't no way you gonna start me here, bring me to this point, and then keep taking it away from me. Like, at some point, you gotta start to question, how hard was it to keep that mindset when you were going through those level and list of injuries?

• 12:44Speaker 02

  Man, it was, it was extremely tough. Because when it first happens, you know, never really been seriously injured like that to where you had the game taken away from you. So. You don't really understand like what the mindset should be or what the thought process should be. But then when it happened, and it happens another year, literally six and a half months removed from the first one. And then you rehab that one again and you questioning God like, well, like, why is this happening to me? And then boom, you rehab that four year and a half later, you re-injured again. So now it's three consecutive years that you've torn your ACL. And then it's so interesting because you talk about the grit and the determination

• 13:28Speaker 02

  that that you developed growing up in a place like Shelby, Georgia. I'm constantly reminded of like my grandmother, watching her get up every single Saturday morning after working a full week, throwing this black trash bag of her clothes across her back, walking uptown, going to the laundromat, sometimes executing that walk all the way, right? Which is a couple of miles away from my house, or sometimes getting a ride from somebody else that that picked her up. But I'm I'm thinking about times where I got up and most of the most Saturday mornings, it was me and her walking. And I'm thinking about times like that.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  I'm thinking about watching her live out her life every single day. Not one time did I ever hear a complaint about anything, not a single thing that she had going on. I never heard a complaint. So as I went through that process, and I'm thinking about all of the people down there and the way that they have to get up and they have to sacrifice and they have to work every single day for every single thing that they wanted, needed, or had to have, and we take it for granted so often. So for me, going through that process, all I needed after that third ACL was to be told that I would be given another opportunity, and I knew I was gonna make it happen. And Mr. Richardson was that person for me. He told me, hey, you willing to put yourself through it?

• 14:57Speaker 02

  I'm gonna give you a chance to do it. So. It was a no brainer, man, and I attacked it every single day with the mindset of I'm gonna be the first player to ever come back from three consecutive ACL tears. And I didn't want to just say, I didn't want to be that token like mascot for ACL recoveries. I wanted to be the person that came back and show every NFL club that you don't have to give up on your players when they go through injuries. Have faith, believe in them, give them opportunity and let, and let the chips fall where they may. So I wanted to make sure that I came back and I was not just, like I said, a mascot on that team. I wanted to be a contributor. I wanted to be a leader.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  I wanted to regain my title as the unspoken leader of that football team and not just by talking about it, by going out and playing at a high level. And I was able to do that.

• 15:52Channing Crowder?

  But TD, did it slow, now, now you retired, so now you ain't giving nobody no insight. Did it, did it slow you down? Did it change you? Because I was, I was surprised because I had the four ACLs in high school and I think, you know what I'm saying, I do believe it slowed me down. I do believe the change of direction was different. Did those slow you down or when you're training like that, did it improve your game in any chance? Because that's the craziest part.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  I'm gonna be honest with you, I got better. I got so much better in that process because mentally I was able to really lock in on, and you know, it took some time for me to learn the linebacker position, let's be honest. Like you don't just go and jump out at that position, having to understand, diagnose every single thing that's happening in front of you. Have the ability to cover some of the fastest backs out of the backfield, some of the best tight ends in the NFL and do it at a high level while being that close to the line of scrimmage while taking on dudes that are three times your size. Like you, you, you don't just learn that by going and watch film. You gotta go through that fire. And that was something that I had the opportunity to do because.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  I was a safety. I was that free hitter in college. I was that dude that when you took on all the other players, you spilling everything to me. I'm coming down in the box. RC, you know how it goes. I'm that free hitter. I get to knock your block off because now I'm free and I got, I'm fast, I'm strong, and I got full speed and I'm untouched coming from depth. So. Man, what a time to be alive. Listen. What a time to be alive, boy. Before they put that targeting rule in, I might have been part of that film that they pulled up to make sure that this didn't happen anymore in college football. Because the mindset was, man, listen, I'm trying, I'm trying to make you regret the moment that you touched that football

• 17:46Speaker 02

  in any portion of that game. If I can get my hands on you, that was the mindset. And we used to have this thing, man. As a tone setter, we called it flesh bombs. And we started this, like, on film, you got to do something that when that offensive player turn that film on, he's intimidated. You got to make sure that you set the tone in a way that he, he looking for you instead of worrying about where the football is. And that's something that we tried to do every single game. We tried to put that on film every single game to let you know you got a long day ahead of you. Because we had big safeties at Georgia now. It was me, it was Sean Jones, Greg Blue. Yeah, Blue, yeah. Listen, Jermaine Phillips, like, bro,

• 18:28Speaker 02

  we, we started that big safety component in the SEC. So that was one of the things, man, that I took a lot of, a lot of pride in, you know, just really being that tone setter. But when you think about, you know, just having the opportunity to go out and, and have an impact and play the game, playing linebacker was something that it took me a lot of years to be able to learn. So I didn't, I didn't use those years of not being on the field just locking in on getting back on the field. I use it to become a better player. I use it to become a better father. I use it to become a better citizen within the community and giving back with my foundation. Like, there were so many things I felt like God called me to do

• 19:13Speaker 02

  with that time that he created for me in that moment, man. And every single thing that I needed to happen absolutely worked out the way that I needed it to work out and the way that God wanted it to work out. Because you don't go from tearing your ACL three consecutive years, right? To then, three years later, making the Pro Bowl for the first time, three consecutive years. Like, it was a very humbling experience, but it also showed me and a lot of other people, man, if you believe in yourself, you put the work in, you don't lose sight of your goals and your dreams and your aspirations, man, you can accomplish and you can do anything in this life, man. Because so many people said, "Man, the team should turn, like, should

• 19:56Speaker 02

  turn the page on me. They should, they should..." If I wanted to play with my kids, I got all of these things, these articles written out, these comments. "If you want to play with your kids one day, it's time for you to walk away from the game. He's washed up." All of this, I heard all of that shit. And every single day that I went into that, that weight room and that training room, I used it as motivation, man. Every single step of the way. We just coming back every single time. And it was the first play against Tampa, I'd never forget it. Because I was a gunner. They didn't know what was gonna happen. We had John Beeson, we had just drafted Luke Keakley, and we had James Anderson, who had just got paid. So it was three linebackers that were, they could have went with those

• 20:39Speaker 02

  guys and been perfectly fine, but they kept me on the team. I was a gunner now. I played gunner. And first play in Tampa, first special teams play, I told Captain, I'm like, "I'm gonna be the first one to go down and set the tone." If you know Captain, he's, he's competitive, he like to talk. But, man, boom, I had a key to leave lined up on me. Give key, but move, go down, full speed, man. And it was me and the returner. And I said I had something that I wanted to get out. I wanted to make sure that I set the tone. Like, I'm back, and I ain't just back to be no token mascot now. I'm back to be a contributor.

• 21:21Ryan Clark?

  I'm getting fired up over here, though.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Man, bro, I went and I smoked the returner. Soon as he caught the punt, boom, smoked him. And if you watch that play, I get up and I kind of limp off the field a little bit because, bro, I don't know why shit keeps happening. Like, as soon as I hit him, his knee... Catches my quad and you know, we ain't used to, we didn't wear like knee thigh pads back then, knee pads, none of that. I had a knee brace on and his knee caught right in the middle of that where my quad was. And after that game, Mr. Richardson was like, get him off of special teams, like take him off of that shit. So I set the tone, but I didn't, I, I was not able to play gunner anymore after that play.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  But you know, that was the start of the Luke Keakley, Thomas Davis era though, because we still had Beeson playing middle linebacker to start that season, but like four or five games into the season, we ended up trading Beeson, man. And I learned so much from John Beeson as a, as a young linebacker, but the way he came in and he played the game, the way he prepared, I learned so much from him. I learned so much from Dan Morgan. I learned so, man, I had, I had so many great dudes, man.

• 22:34Ryan Clark?

  Can you talk about being the other guy? I have the, uh, I have the, I don't know necessarily, I'm the other guy, right?

• 22:43Speaker 02

  I know what you mean.

• 22:44Ryan Clark?

  Like, you know, I played in Washington. I was a good player, but I played with Sean Taylor.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  I get it.

• 22:48Ryan Clark?

  Right? I wasn't gonna be that, right? I played here in Pittsburgh where we are today and I was a really good football player. But I played with Troy Palamalu, right? And one of my best games, one of my best games, we played in the playoffs, divisional round, I forced, we're down 21-7, I forced a fumble, we recovered a fumble, we score, it's 21-14, right? The next, next play on the next series, I get a pick, we score a touchdown, it's 21-21, we end up winning 24-21. Do you know what the title of the story was on Monday morning? The other safety. That was the title of the story, right? So I get it. Being with Luke Keakley, you mentioned all those other guys,

• 23:29Ryan Clark?

  but playing with Luke Keakley, like you said, three Pro Bowls in a row, a first team All-Pro, and you're playing with a Hall of Famer.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Yup.

• 23:37Ryan Clark?

  What was that experience like to know that every day I'm going out, I'm a dog, but I got one next to me too, who is now a Hall of Famer?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Listen, it, I, I, my mindset has always doing whatever I can for the team. Whatever I can do to make this team better, that's what I want to do. And that's how I attacked the game. That's how I attacked my life. That's how I attacked every single thing that I did. And there was never a moment or a time that, that I became jealous of any other success that my teammates had. There were a few times over my career before I ever made the Pro Bowl that I thought I should have been a Pro Bowler. Like, I felt like my numbers warranted. I felt like my play warranted it. But you know, sometimes you get caught up in the numbers when it comes to that. Or you get caught up in a guy that has been a Pro Bowler for a long time.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  And dudes go in and they look at the sheet. They see that dude's name and they gonna just fill his name out just for the hell of it. Not based on how he played. And it took a lot of time for me to grow to that point. For me to learn that, you know, it's not necessarily about the body of work or what you do on the field. Like, it becomes a popularity contest. And, and really, it wasn't until I won the Man of the Year that really like triggered like so much of the other off the field accolades that started to come. But I feel like I had to do my due diligence when it came to continuing to put the work in and do the things that I knew I was capable of doing

• 25:09Speaker 02

  and not allowing outside factors to determine or define me as a player. Because when I had the chance to play along with Beast, Beast may have had success early. He was able to get selected into the Pro Bowl his second year. Then, you know, play a couple of years with him. Both of us end up getting injured. They draft Luke. Luke had instant success. Like, he comes in and, man, like, the dude just took off, man. He had a phenomenal college career. But then when you get to hang out and work beside a dude like Luke Kuechly, you understand why the success happens. You understand why he becomes who he became. And there was not a single day that this dude didn't work

• 25:54Speaker 02

  in some way to get better on and off the field. Like, the work that he put in. In the film room is second to none. I don't know nobody that could go in and dissect and understand what the offense was getting ready to do the way that he was able to. We would be in games at times and he would be sitting on the sideline, "Tiddy, they haven't ran such and such yet. Watch this formation. Get ready for it because it's coming." I knew it. I saw it on film. Like, we would do that. Man, it was one time we was playing Tampa Bay and Tampa Bay came out in a formation and Luke made the check. He knew every single thing they was about to do. And you could see in Jameis' face, he was flustered. He

• 26:36Speaker 02

  was like, boom. He would go, he made a check to the tall sweep and Luke checked it to the tall sweep. When he checked, he's like, "Sweep, sweep, sweep, bro." And Jameis just, and you could see him, bro. He was so deflated, bro. And we, everybody, like the whole defense took off to that damn sweep. And you knew it was gonna be a taco loss because everybody knew what was gonna happen.

• 27:01Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  It ain't a time, it's only one time in my career, bro. One time in my career that I regret not listening to a tip that Luke gave me.

• 27:15Ryan Clark?

  So Luke, did Luke give you the tip in the game or before the game?

• 27:19Speaker 02

  In the game, all the time. He would give everybody tips. Like, he would tell us things.

• 27:23Ryan Clark?

  What's the one he told you that you regret?

• 27:25Speaker 02

  It was the Super Bowl. It was in the Super Bowl and it was third in real long. And he knew that that Patriot screen was coming to Bay Bay. He knew that they was getting ready.

• 27:39Ryan Clark?

  Denver?

• 27:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:40Ryan Clark?

  Okay, right.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  He knew that that play was coming.

• 27:42Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  And I regret not just playing it with him. You'll see Luke, Luke reacts. He sticks his foot in the ground and he takes off and he smokes Bay Bay on the play, like annihilates him. And the ball bounces right up in the air. Had I listened to what he said, it, bro, I don't, I don't get as much depth. But in my head, I'm like, bro, it's third and forever. If I settle on this play and they end up, and it's Peyton Manning, bro, like he checked, we checked, you know how that goes. So I'm like, if, if I settle on this play and it's third and forever and they don't run this Patriots screen, bro, we gonna be in trouble.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  Like, we gonna have a problem. So, bro, but if I, if I would've just, I think, you know, you try to go back to games and you think about things that could've been done different, or how I could've done this different, or how I could've had a greater impact. And I'm like, bro, if I would've just listened to him, I would've been right there and able to react. Cause the ball, it seemed like the ball bounced a ball in the air, bro. Like, if I would've, if I would've just stayed where I was and not gotten any depth.

• 28:58Channing Crowder?

  Super Bowl MVP, Thomas.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  It would've landed right in my lap, bro. And I'm not getting caught, I'm, nobody would've caught me. Nobody would've caught me to the end zone.

• 29:06Channing Crowder?

  This sounds so much like the stories I tell about Zach Thomas, where he would know some shit from years ago. Our offensive coordinator was in Carolina that's now in, in LA, and he knows their 12 personnel run game and all that stuff. Did you, and I don't wanna diminish your successes, but at some point, I'll say, I remember calling Jermaine and Tremaine McCullum. Cause when I got to the Dolphins, the linebacker, we were three, four linebackers with Junior Sells, Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor, and me. Three Pro Bowlers and my little third round ass coming out of Florida trying to just fit in at the moat. And I remember calling him and being like, "Bruh, these motherfuckers is special."

• 29:50Channing Crowder?

  He was like, "Bruh, how was it playing with Zach Thomas?" I said, "Bruh, he's a, Junior's better than me." "Well, what you gonna do, what you gonna do?" I said, "I don't know what I could ever do. There's not a way that I could live. There's not a film I could watch. There's not anything I could do to come off this edge like Jason Taylor." I didn't feel that way playing at Florida in the SCC. We played, we played against each other. I never felt that way. Was it a time that you had to realize, "Bruh, these dudes is, these dudes is special?" And could you tell people that?

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Man, please. That shit, my, my, my rookie year, bro. I got drafted to a team that had, on defense, this is who we had. We had Mike Rucker, we had Bryson Buckner, we had Chris Jenkins who, bro, is a freak of nature, bro. I'm telling you, like, the one player that I tell people all the time, bro, if he would have locked in for the entirety of his career, it ain't no question in my mind, he would have been a first ballot Hall of Famer. Chris Jenkins, Julius Peppers. Then we had Dan Morgan, Will Witherspoon. Will.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  And we had, yeah, Colin Branch at safety, we had Mike Minter at safety, bro. Mint was small, but Mint would knock your block off, like, like something crazy. Ken Lucas at cornerback, and, and we had Chris Gamble at the other cornerback. Gosh. That was a squad. That was our defense, bro. Like, that, that was our defense. That's the defense that I went into. So, coming out of the SCC, like you talked about, I'm, man, I'm fast, I'm strong. All-American, all SCC. And, and we had Ricky Manning too. I can't leave Ricky out, but we had Ricky Manning. But we had so many dudes, bro, we had so many dudes on defense, bro. It was our first conditioning day, bro.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  And we go out and we start running sprints. And I see this big ass dude, man, just take off. Bro, Pelp running like a freaking DB, bro. I'm like, man, what, like, this ain't even fair, bro. They don't even make, how do they make humans that are this big and this fast, this athletic? Like, you just, you don't see stuff like that. And then, on the flip side, on the offensive side, that was the year Steve Smith won the Triple Crown. Man, when I tell you, bro, y'all, y'all think that what we get, we, what we got to watch Jamar Chase do

• 32:25Speaker 02

  last year, like you, or the year before, you think that that was special, man. Watching Steve Smith do that after coming back from an injury, the way that he used, bro. And shout out to Fred Smoot, man. Fred Smoot was a great player.

• 32:39Channing Crowder?

  That's my dog.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  I watched Smitty, I watched Smitty make Fred Smoot quit, bro. No disrespect to you, Smoot, bro. But, listen, it was a game because Smoot was talking so much trash. He was talking so much trash going into that game, and even in the game. But, bro,

• 32:58Speaker 02

  I supped son should have been for Smoot instead of Akeem. Because he made that, bro, man, the aggressive, physical nature in which I watched Smitty, like, we used to throw these little stand-ups, like, throw a little hits to Smitty, and he turned that into a touchdown because he'd go make a move, still form, well, it didn't matter who was out there. I don't care who was out there, bro. He was so strong and so explosive, bro. He gonna still form whoever's in front of him, and he's taking it to the house. Like, it's a different mindset when you have a dude that, that, that goes out, he plays the game with a chip on his shoulder, and he says to himself, "Ain't nobody gonna stop me." And he actually believes every word that comes out of his mouth, and he played like that.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Man, like, the things that, his ability, bro, to jump and stay in the air longer than anybody. Like, Michael Jordan was special when it came to the jumping, but Steve Smith on the football field was the Michael Jordan of, of football. His ability to jump up in the air, and it seemed like there were several times I watched him almost mistime his jump. Go up another level and still be able to come down with the football, bro, and I'm like, man, that's, it ain't, bro, it's not fair.

• 34:15Channing Crowder?

  Playing with Smitty, playing with Pe- playing with the dudes you, you, you were overshadowed. You were a three-time Pro Bowler. You could have been, if you was on, if you was on a lesser team, you would have been Kikely. You would have been Smitty. You would have been them.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  I was shit then. I was a rookie that didn't know what was going on. I was trying, but let me tell you what.

• 34:37Channing Crowder?

  Luke, if you ain't played with Luke, because Luke was the, the bee's knees of the NFL. You was the other guy, like RC was talking about. If you was on, I don't wanna call no terrible teams out, but if you was on the team, you would have been the, the Kikely of that team.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  I wouldn't have been who I was without Luke though. That's how I see it.

• 34:55Ryan Clark?

  I say the same thing.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  And I feel like Luke shares that sentiment though. And that's one of the things that, that I take pride in. I feel like he would have been a phenomenal player. He would have been a great player. But I feel like the chemistry and the things that we were able to do together was what made us special. Because we went out, man, and we, we competed. Nobody understands when I say that we competed at a level in practice that was truly unmatched on Sundays. Like, the game didn't fucking matter. Like, that did not matter what happened on Sunday. Because when we go out and we competed in practice, like, man, if I pull some of this practice film and y'all watch the way that we ran,

• 35:39Speaker 02

  y'all watch the way that we, like, we communicated, we talked, the way that we flew around, like, bro, you would have thought that on Wednesday, that we was getting ready to play for the Super Bowl. On Tu- on Thursday, on Fri- like, every single day, and that was the way that we approached it. We wanted to make the ga- make practice way harder than the game could ever be for us. And that's the way that we approached every single thing. Like, it, it just didn't matter. And we had the perfect coach for that because Coach Rivera allowed us to be who we were. And he didn't, he never tried to change us. He never tried to change any component about what made a player who he was or what made him special.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  He wanted us to go out and, and just be who we were, man. And one of the things that really showed that, you always hear about our practices when it came to me and Cam. Like, we always went at it, bro, like, every single day. And McDermott was our defensive coordinator. He, he, man, McDermott is by the book, like, man, let's go, let's lock in, let's focus, let's practice. He ain't want us talking a whole bunch of shit, but Coach Rivera knew that if I got under Cam's skin, he knew that if I made him mad or upset or...

• 37:00Speaker 02

  I was gonna get the best version of Cam every single day. He knew that. So if there was ever a time when we went to practice and he didn't hear me, he was like, hey, come on, like, where you at? But then I'm like, McDermott telling me to shut the hell up. So I'm like, bro, like, what do I do? I'm like, fuck it, this the head coach at the time. So, and I love doing this shit anyway. I love talking shit anyway because what it does, man, whenever you go out, you talk trash, you compete, it makes you so much better, man. Because you, I can't talk shit to you or talk trash to you and then not show up and not, I can't do that. Like, you gonna, I'm gonna look bad, I'm gonna look crazy. So, anybody that's talking, you gotta have, you gotta be at your best.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  You gotta be at your A-game every single time you go out there and you take the field. And man, that's what made us so much better as a team. Because when I started doing it, Luke started doing it. Then Josh started doing it. Then Cam, then D'Angelo, like, everybody, man, bought in, man. And we just, man, our practices used to be so special, bro, because everybody out there competing and going hard every single day. And when you have practices like that, bro, you never dread taking that field. You never, ever go out there a single time and feel like, man, I don't wanna be here, bro. Because you having so much fun, man, and you out there with your brothers. Like, that's one of the things, honestly, that I miss most about the game.

• 38:24Fred Taylor?

  Let me ask you this, TD. Take me back to, um, December 9th, 2007. I don't know how well you'll remember it before I mention the date, but I'm gonna help you remember it a little bit more. It was a nice, cool, chill day in Dirty Duval, Florida.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  Oh, Lord.

• 38:44Fred Taylor?

  And a 31-year-old running back chopped y'all boys up.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  How many he hit him for, Freddie T?

• 38:51Fred Taylor?

  Like a buck 32 on 16.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  But let me tell you this. I had an 80-yarder. Before that...

• 39:00Fred Taylor?

  Before that, it was 15 for a long day.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 39:04Fred Taylor?

  I only had like 50 before the 80 yarders. So they, it was a good game. It was some back and forth, but you know, I, I do, in a week of preparation, knowing who you have to get ready for, looking across, seeing the athleticism from his position and all those guys around it, you check off the box of a few guys that you have to make sure you're on your A game for. And I can tell you, TD was always one of them, you know, just, just looking at, admiring you coming out of Georgia, knowing the type of matchup we were in for that day. Uh, but I, I give you hell just to mess around and, and throw that out. But I've, I've always admired your career, looking at the parallels between you and one of my guys,

• 39:46Fred Taylor?

  and Frank Gore, coming back from the knee, multiple knee injuries, still being able to go out and be, you know, have those type of careers. So I just want to throw that out there, minus me [BLEEP] with you about December.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  Listen, man, listen.

• 39:59Fred Taylor?

  That, that day.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Listen, Fred T, remember the date it actually happened. But, bro, like, I always, I've always had a ton of respect for you and your game. Like, my dad actually lived in Kingsland, Georgia.

• 40:13Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  Which is very close, very close to Jacksonville, man. And we used to go down to Jacksonville a lot because it's, it's like right there on the border. So, man, just when, when Jacksonville first got their team, you know, watching you, watching Keenan McCardell, watching Jimmy, like, bro, like, I was a huge fan of, of what y'all had going on down there, man. And I was a Fred T fan until I found out that you went to Florida. I'm like, nah, I ain't [BLEEP] this dude, man. But no, man, I'll juxtapose.

• 40:41Fred Taylor?

  You should have, uh, I, I know Darnell Harvey, he crossed over, right? Yeah, he's from, uh.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  From Shelby.

• 40:46Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, from Shelby.

• 40:48Channing Crowder?

  I got land in Woodbine.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Same, that's crazy.

• 40:50Fred Taylor?

  But no.

• 40:52Channing Crowder?

  It's the wildest thing right up the road.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  My dad used to live in Woodbine too, that's crazy. So, but man, yeah, D Harvey, so I don't know if you remember, um, Rod Grady.

• 41:03Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Rod Grady was another dude from my high school that, he was really the first dude to kind of, like...

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Set the pathway for schools to start coming recruit.

• 41:19Ryan Clark?

  What's your school like Randolph Clay?

• 41:20Speaker 02

  Randolph Clay High School. So, bro, we like per capita like like with as small as we are, bro, we've had, we've had a first round NFL player, a first round NBA player, and my little cousin got drafted into the WNBA.

• 41:38Ryan Clark?

  Dang.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  All from Shelby, bro. Like it's, it's crazy to think that that little city has been able to produce, you know, that many, well, I mean, ain't that a lot, but with it being as small, but we still only got 900 to 1,000 people in my hometown right now, like to this day. And to think that, you know, we don't have people able to get drafted and come so far from, from such a small place, man, is truly special, I think. But also, you know, you talk about Donnell being the number one player in the nation when he came out and making the decision to go to Florida. Rod Grady being one of the top safeties. Man, Rod, Rod was

• 42:20Speaker 02

  probably the most athletic football player that I have ever watched play. He played quarterback at my high school and safety, quarterback and safety, went to Florida.

• 42:31Ryan Clark?

  That's my dog.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Made some bad decisions, bro. Like Rod is one of those dudes, bro. Made a bad decision. I don't know the story. I don't know if he was the driver of the car or what happened in that situation, man. But Rod was one of those dudes that I looked up to, right? And I talk about seeing guys that grew up where I came from, that had a ton of talent, that had the abilities to play on the next level, but he was one of the people that I learned from. Like, I don't want to make it to that point and not execute and not finish the drill and not finish what I start. So, I gotta make sure that once I get to that point, that I'm showing these kids that are gonna come behind me that, hey, it ain't about just

• 43:15Speaker 02

  making it, it's about executing the game plan. It's about going out and finishing what you start. And for me, I wasn't highly recruited coming out of high school.

• 43:25Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  I was able to get a scholarship to Georgia. And once I got that scholarship, I knew that I was gonna become successful in one way. I was gonna go to the NFL, or I was gonna graduate. Or I was gonna do both, which I ended up doing both. But for me, it was bigger than me, though. It was about showing the kids that are gonna come behind me, like, listen, there's nothing different about me than you right now. You have the same opportunities. You gotta work for it. You gotta understand that. You gotta make sacrifices. When your friends go left, you gotta go right. You gotta make the decision to lead when it's hard. Because there're gonna be so many instances and so many times that you can just make the wrong decision. And it's so much easier to make the wrong decision.

• 44:09Speaker 02

  And you might have so much more fun making the wrong decision, but you're gonna regret the day that you chose not to make the right one. Right. And I try to talk to kids about that all the time, man, because you just never know what day may be that day that defines you as a person, as a player, and overall defines your career.

• 44:30Ryan Clark?

  Thomas, you know, you mentioned earlier that the way you grew up impacted the way that you parented. And you wanted to give your kids a different life than you had. In retirement, you know, you are no longer married. How difficult has it been to communicate what's real and what's really happening in life with you, your ex-wife, but where you are as a total family with your children? Because the divorce rate amongst retired players is extremely high. And now, knowing that's something you didn't want, how have you been able to deal with that with your kids and remaining close and communicating with them?

• 45:15Speaker 02

  Man, listen, that has probably been the toughest thing that I've ever had to deal with in my entire life. And that's as real and as vulnerable and as raw as I can tell you, bro. Like, I always, when I got married, I always thought that my marriage was gonna be forever. And...

• 45:38Speaker 02

  I got married to what I thought was my best friend. And I made some decisions that, that definitely made it difficult for us to remain best friends. And I take full responsibility for every single thing that I did while we were married. I don't sit back and sugarcoat any portion of it, you know? Are there some things that I wish that I could have done different? Or I would have done differently? Absolutely, like absolutely, no question. But at the end of the day, as a man, you take ownership of your decisions.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  You look to people that you care about, you look to people in their face, you apologize. You take ownership, and that's something that I had to do with my kids. You know, they, they've been in a situation where they grew up in a two-parent household, and that's all they've ever known. And right, for them to get to the ages of 23, 22, 18, and 16, and now have their whole world completely uprooted and shifted. And, you know, it's tough on them, like it's hard. As they go through this dynamic, it doesn't matter how old they get, because all they've ever known was their dad to be...

• 47:00Speaker 02

  And this is in their words, like, "Not mine." They've always known me as being perfect, right? And that's extremely, extremely tough to hear, right? Because that's what you want to be for your kids. Like, you want to be everything that, that you can possibly be for your kids, man, and more. And for me to have that reputation with them, and to make some decisions that skewed, that changed their perception, and changed how they viewed and thought about me, that's probably been the most difficult thing that I've had to deal with, not just in retirement, but in my life. Because nothing in this life matters more to me than my kids.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Nothing, like, literally nothing, bro. So...

• 47:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, I mean, that's, that's something tough that I, that I've had to deal with. But, I mean, you know, we just live in a world, man, where every single thing gets, gets, like, there's no privacy within families anymore, man. And I think that's one of the toughest things about getting into a tough space because you can't get into a position where you, where you're able to work through things, or you're able to, you know, talk things out, or, you know, have some differences and work through differences because now, once you put things out and it become public and every single component of your life gets shared, whether it be truths, or whether it

• 48:38Speaker 02

  be fabricated, some of, a lot of it can be lies, but if you don't go and respond to it, then people start to believe the lies as, as- As truths. As truths. Like, you know, they start to look at it as that's what actually happened. And one of the things that I've learned, right, and I've sought, in situations where you go through things with family members, and you go through hard times and tough situations with people that you love and you care about, going and try to clear things up that are being said or done to and about you only complicates the situation more because now

• 49:20Speaker 02

  it completely discredits the person that it's coming from. And unfortunately, in my situation, the people that certain things came from about me were people that I would literally give my life up for. So, what do you do? Like, do you go out and you try to make, you make people that you love and care about look and become who they are in that moment? Or you be the bigger person and you say, you know what? She's going through something. She's hurting.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  And I'm speaking about my kids, right? She's going through something. She's hurting. And this is a new space. It's a new world for her. So you take a step back, you let her grow, and you let her go through those hardships and those hurts. And you just make sure that she understands and knows that no matter what, I always love and I always care about you.

• 50:18Ryan Clark?

  I think the, you know, I've never gone through that. The thing we have-

• 50:22Speaker 02

  And I hope you don't ever have to either, bro. So that it's tough.

• 50:26Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, the thing you have to do as a father, though, is our kids don't owe us anything, right? You know this, and having them and loving them, it's our job to be there. And at some point, if we do things that makes them distance themselves from us or pull away from us, man, the time that they want to walk back through that door, like, we should be outside, opening it and holding it and saying that, you know what? I get that I am not perfect. I want it to be for you, but I'm gonna try every single day. Because if they make the choice, bro, that the life that we're living isn't theirs and the one they want to be a part of,

• 51:11Ryan Clark?

  we gotta do our best to make it that life. Because like, we don't, like, you don't get to remake them, right? We don't get another opportunity to parent kids and to father kids and to be there for important moments. And the thing that I've learned, and I had to learn the hard way, and you're talking about it too, is part of how a woman who bears your children will love you is based on how you treat those children. Part of how the children that you procreated with, with a woman, part of how they'll see you is how you treat that woman. I know we want to separate them. We can't. You know, and for you, man, I just pray, man, that the relationship with your children,

• 51:56Ryan Clark?

  because I can see the hurt on you, bro. I pray that the relationship with your children get back to a place, man, where you want it to be.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  As I look back over the course of my career and over the course of my life, and the way that I were very intentional about the things that I did and tried to do. You put so much pressure on yourself when you try to live up to a certain standard, right? Like, for me, I wanted to be the perfect dad. I wanted to be the perfect husband, and I wanted to be the best football player and follower of Christ that I could ever be. Because I wanted to be that living example for all of the kids that are to come behind me, including my own. And it was a blessing for me to be able to get acknowledged as the NFL Man of the Year, right? Because I think that puts you on a different playing field.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  It puts you, it holds you to a higher standard, right? When you know how you're living, you know that you're doing things the right way, then you become, you get in a situation where you get rewarded for the things that you're doing, and you know that's that validation, you know? Not that we do it for that, but once you get recognized for it, it's like, dang, like, okay, I am doing things the right way. Then you win the, I won the Barks Star Award, then was able to win the award from Coach Dungy. Like, it's just, all of these things start to happen, so that's instant validation for me, right? Like, I'm living my life the right way. And then, life starts to happen, right?

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Still, to this day, never smoked, never drank ever in my life, never had any desire, never wanted to, still don't want to. But, certain things happen within your life, right? So for me, what ended up happening, and I have never, ever discussed or talked about this publicly, actually, and what things really started to like spiral for me was, we talk about the good and the bad of the injuries, right? And, ah, shit.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  Man, I was always very intentional about what I put into my body. Never ever wanted anything to go into my body that, that wasn't pure, right? That's why I said, never smoked, never drank. 2018, end up getting suspended for a banned substance. Still don't even know to this day what it was. Took the same pre-workout before every game. But you know, outside sources, outside world, you automatically get judged based on what happens. It wasn't a steroid, it wasn't any, it ended up being like an estrogen blocker,

• 54:46Speaker 02

  which I later learned, start doing research, they said that it, that's what people that take steroids use to try to mask it or how, I don't know, like, you know what I'm saying? I know for a fact, and I can attest, I would take a lot of tech to test. Still to this day, I have never, ever put anything in my body from a steroid or any kind of thing to cheat the game, ever. And I never would ever do that. I worked too hard, worked entirely too hard for that to ever be a part of my story. But what ended up happening, dealt with that in 2018, four-game suspension. During that four-game suspension, my dad passed away.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  That's how my 2018 started. Go through that process, now you start feeling the effects of the game. Knees hurting, shoulders hurting, body hurting. 2018, that was the year Carolina made a decision. We gotta find out what Shaq Thompson can do. Gotta find out if, you know, he's gonna be our player of the future. My contract expired. We're gonna go in a different direction after I was just told that, you know, we're gonna bring you back. So all of this, it was tough for me. So now, I gotta go and prove to the world that I still can do it. I gotta prove that I still can play, but I'm hurting, like, and I know I'm hurting, but I'm not gonna be forced out of the game.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  Had another knee procedure. All of these surgeries, opioids never became a part of my story, right? Took them as long as I needed to, flushed it, it's out. Now, things start to linger a little more. Now I'm starting to finish the whole bottle when I have a surgery. Now, you get into a position where you kinda, alright? Were you addicted to opioids? Ended up having an opioid addiction. Extremely tough to sit and say that because I've always been a person and a player

• 56:59Speaker 02

  that said that I would never allow anything to control me in any way, right? No sport, no, no drug, no drink, ever. So, I felt like that was really something that really defined what ended up happening in my relationship with, with so many people because I did so much to try to hide that from the world, right? I did so much to try to hide what I was struggling with, what I was going through from so many people. And I've never, ever talked about this publicly, right?

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Never, ever shared this with anybody other than my close friends. They know about it. My daughter went online and talked about it and sort of put it out there. Went and got help for that situation, got the help that I needed. And I just want to encourage anybody that's struggling with that, man. You're never gonna truly feel like it has a hold of you or that you're struggling with it. And you're gonna always feel like you can overcome it or you can beat it. But I highly encourage you, if you're dealing with this, man, get help. Get help, don't be ashamed, don't be afraid to get the help that you need. Don't be afraid to say that I need help.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Don't be afraid to say that I'm struggling.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  Because there's so many resources and so many people out there that can help you get better from that. And that was something that I feel like had a huge impact on what ultimately happened with me and the situation between, you know, me and my ex now and my kids. And it led to a lot of the decisions that I ended up making. I don't sit back and I don't make no fucking excuses for nothing that I did. I take full ownership of every single component of everything that has happened in my life. But at the end of the day, I know that there were some factors that took place that ultimately led me into a space that I didn't anticipate being in.

• 59:15Channing Crowder?

  Were you addicted to the drugs? Or were you trying to get back to being what you used to be? Because I remember when that, when you start going downhill, whatever it takes is whatever it takes.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  I think it's a combination of both of those, honestly. Like, it's just, it becomes one of those things, man, where you, you, it ain't even, what I've learned about that, it's not even about the feeling of what happens within that. It's about what happens when you don't, when you don't partake in it, or you don't utilize it, the things that your body go through. That's one of the struggles that a lot of people end up having to deal with.

• 59:56Channing Crowder?

  Withdraw.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. That's a huge component of what people struggle and why people stay, like, addicted or locked in on the, on the meds so long. Because you don't want your body to go through those symptoms. Like, it's just, you just don't.

• 1:00:13Ryan Clark?

  It almost seems like that took away, that was the first layer of perfectionism gone.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  Right, like you said you wanted to be the best Christian, the best husband, the best father, the best player. You never wanted to cheat the game, you never wanted to cheat yourself. That feels like the first time that you cheated yourself.

• 1:00:33Fred Taylor?

  No question.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  And I think, once you, once you start giving up on certain fabrics and morals and foundations that make you who you are, it makes it easier to give up on the next one and the next one, until you fix that thing and then start to get your life back to where it is, I think. But, you know Fred, I just wanted to say that before.

• 1:00:56Fred Taylor?

  Nah, TD, when we started off, we kind of joked around about being here, you know, finally being on the show, all of that. But that's why this show is what it is, man. First of all, timing, you know, for you to be vulnerable and open up and share, you know, those things, I think that's what this show is about. And there's a reason why God put you here today and not back then.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  No question.

• 1:01:19Fred Taylor?

  Maybe you weren't ready to share.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  I definitely wouldn't have been. I definitely, I definitely wouldn't have been Fred T, and I can tell you that, because there's a lot of shame and guilt associated with going through something like that, especially when you have a lot of pride, right? You have a lot of pride, you always feel like you want to be perceived or looked at in a certain way because you carry yourself in a certain way. Like, I lived my life in a way that I wanted my kids to always be proud of me, right? That was something that was extremely important to me. And some of the things that happened, I understood. I made it extremely hard for

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  them to ever be proud of the man that I had started to become. So that was tough. And, you know, my ex is, she, she, she has her own issues and things that she has to deal with, that she has to handle on her own, man, that she got to reconcile with. But one of the things that, you know, for me as a dad, that gonna always, always be important for me is the relationship that I have with my kids, because like RC talked about earlier, man, like, your kids gonna always be your kids, man, and they're gonna always want, desire and need that relationship with their father, so.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  That's something that's gonna always matter to me.

• 1:02:48Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think, you know, we could close now. I mean, that's the biggest pivot for sure. I just would encourage you, you know, and you didn't do it. Like, just continue to point the finger at yourself. You know, nothing good is gonna come from whatever your ex have to reconcile coming from you.

• 1:03:10Ryan Clark?

  You know, when we make mistakes and when we make decisions, because I've made them and I know it. Until we take the accountability, until we say we gonna fix us, it doesn't matter what anybody else does because we are the father, we are the dad. And it's extremely important that they see us take the accountability and move forward because they gonna learn that lesson from us.

• 1:03:33Speaker 02

  No question.

• 1:03:33Ryan Clark?

  Man, you know, we started this thing out joking about having you on the show and I echo what Fred said, man. It's about timing. The fact that you opened up to us and were vulnerable in that way, like, that's why we created this platform and I just wanna say I'm grateful. I'm praying for you, bro. I'm praying with you. I do believe that you're a great man and I just want you to be back in the place where your kids do look at you, man, and say, "I'm proud of my pops" because you've accomplished a ton coming from Shelton, Georgia.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 1:04:02Ryan Clark?

  Thank you, family. Proud. Man, you had me tearing up, man.

• 1:04:06Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, I know. I like to cry.

• 1:04:08Ryan Clark?

  Damn.

• 1:04:10Channing Crowder?

  Man, appreciate that, bro. I appreciate y'all.

• 1:04:37Speaker 05

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:04:41Speaker 06

  We go V.

• 1:04:45Speaker 05

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