ALEX HONNOLD: ONE Interview Before Free-Soloing Taiwan’s Tallest Building LIVE (This Episode Will Change Your Relationship with FEAR)

Alex Honnold doesn’t climb to feel alive, he climbs because, in those moments, life finally feels simple. Today, Jay sits down with world-renowned climber Alex Honnold to explore what truly lies behind fear, focus, and extraordinary achievement. Alex shares how his relationship with fear has been shaped not by a lack of it, but by years of consistent exposure, revealing that courage isn’t about being fearless, but about learning how to listen, respond, and stay present. Jay and Alex dive into the discipline behind seemingly impossible feats: visualization, preparation, and intentional living. Alex opens up about how he mentally rehearses climbs in vivid detail, not by imagining success alone, but by walking through every sensation, risk, and possibility. This process, he explains, allows him to stay calm and grounded when it matters most. Jay draws parallels to meditation, public speaking, and everyday challenges, showing how the same principles of visualization, presence, and focus can help anyone face intimidating moments with clarity and confidence. Beyond climbing, Alex shows his other self, a husband, father, and friend who values simplicity, purpose, and service. From building a foundation that brings solar energy to communities in need to choosing joy over ego-driven success, Alex embodies a life guided by intention rather than external validation. In this episode, you'll learn: How to Build Calm by Facing Fear How to Train Your Mind Before You Act How to Stay Focused When the Stakes Are High How to Normalize Fear Instead of Fighting It How to Use Visualization for Peak Performance How to Know Your Limits Without Losing Ambition How to Build Mastery Through Consistent Practice You don’t need to chase danger or push yourself to the edge to grow. Growth happens when you prepare with intention, focus on what’s in front of you, and stop letting imagined outcomes hold you back. Watch Alex Honnold free-solo the 101-story Skyscraper, Taipei 101 live on Netflix on January 23rd. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:27 The Deeper Reason Behind Climbing the Tallest Building 04:11 Choosing an Unconventional Path 06:58 Why Consistent Practice Changes Everything 09:28 What It Really Takes to Become Great 11:51 Lessons From Getting Lost 13:41 Why Fear Loses Its Power Over Time 17:00 Understanding Fear as a Physical Sensation 20:42 The Discipline of Staying Within Your Limits 22:41 What Extended Meditation Teaches You 25:55 Preparing the Mind and Body for a Big Challenge 28:51 How High Performers Actually Train 33:03 Being Intentional About the Risks You Take 34:42 Why Visualization Is a Performance Tool 38:36 Imagining the Process, Not Just the Outcome 42:32 Nature vs. Nurture: What Shapes Us Early in Life 45:58 Perfectionism, Pressure, and Letting Go 47:21 Daily Habits That Support Peak Performance 50:54 Bringing an Adventurous Mindset Into Everyday Life 53:48 Handling the Pressure Before a Defining Moment 56:49 The Climb That Redefined Human Potential 58:54 What Truly Matters When Choosing a Life Partner 01:03:31 Spotlighting People Protecting the Planet 01:03:31 What They're Doing at Planet Visionaries 01:06:07 A Letter for Alex 01:14:10 Alex on Final Five Episode Resources: Website | https://www.alexhonnold.com/ Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/alexhonnold Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/AlexHonnold/ YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqnNQOiZzpPNazMN0cBAzw Planet Visionaries | https://podcasts.apple.com/kg/podcast/planet-visionaries-season-5/id1572495128 Honnold Foundation | https://www.honnoldfoundation.org/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the chance to step outside of our routine. Travel is a way of slowing us down and shifting our perspective. And with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, every journey becomes even more rewarding. Earn four times the points on flights and hotels booked direct. Enjoy access to award-winning airport lounges, three times the points on dining and reserve exclusive tables. Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N A Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval, terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Vinted.

• 0:44Jay Shetty?

  Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a second-hand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process. And once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees, so you keep every dollar you earn.

• 1:29Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to-do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational

• 2:10Jay Shetty?

  Nutrition your body needs and alongside a proper diet AG1 Next Gen meets ninety four percent of nutrient requirements and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save twenty percent on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/OnPurpose. That's drinkag1.com/OnPurpose.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Climbing still always has some edge to it because fundamentally you could die. I think that it changes your relationship with fear because you experience it a lot. Fear is just feeling some sensations in your body. If you're used to that state of discomfort, you're kind of like, oh, it's just another day.

• 2:52Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I am so thankful that you're tuning in for a very special episode. Today's guest is someone that I've written about in my book, Think Like A Monk. It's someone that I've mentioned in Countly Daily J Meditations on the Calm app. It's someone's story that I've been fascinated with for quite some time. I'm speaking about Alex Honnold, one of the greatest climbers in history, an athlete who has expanded our understanding of courage, focus, and human potential. From his Oscar-winning Free Solo Ascent to his upcoming live climb of Taipei 101, Alex continues to push the boundaries of what's possible. He's the founder of the Honnold Foundation, using his platform to bring solar

• 3:35Jay Shetty?

  energy to communities in need. Today, we're diving into the mindset that makes it all possible. Please welcome to On Purpose, Alex Honnold. Alex, it's great to finally meet you.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks. Yeah, it's it's an honor.

• 3:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I was so happy to hear that you'd actually already read

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, just read the book.

• 3:52Jay Shetty?

  The part in the book where I mentioned you, which truly, your your story, your mindset has been fascinating to me for years. That book came out in 2020. And so I'm so excited that I actually get to sit down with the the real human behind it today and get to actually learn from the master as opposed to my interpretations and my conceptions of what you may be doing.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  I think your interpretations were pretty good.

• 4:16Jay Shetty?

  That's very kind. That is very kind of you. That means the world. I wanted to start with just getting straight into it. On January twenty third, you're climbing the tallest building in Taiwan.

• 4:27Jay Shetty?

  Why?

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Why? Um, cause it's awesome. Cause, because I get to basically, um, because yeah, it's cause it'll be so fun.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, basically it's, it's really hard to get permission to climb a building and, and if you get permission, you kind of have to say yes. You know, it's like so many other sorts of life experiences where you're kind of like, well, it's a hard thing to do, but you get permission, you, you kind of just have to go do it.

• 4:48Jay Shetty?

  And you've been wanting to climb this building for quite some time, right?

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I actually scouted it for a different TV thing that fell apart in, uh, 2013, I think. So for the last, you know, 12 years, I've known that it was possible. I knew that it's, I mean, the building is honestly uniquely suited for climbing. It's, it's kind of perfect. It's amazing. It's, uh, and it's a really beautiful building. I mean, I don't think that many people, uh, know what it looks like, but it's,

• 5:08Jay Shetty?

  I looked at it before.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, singular. It's striking. I mean, you saw how it sticks out of the, the cityscape. I mean, it's incredible. So it's, um, it's just so cool. But so 12 years ago or so, I scouted it and realized that I could do it. And it was like, this is amazing. Uh, but never got the opportunity. And so now I get the opportunity.

• 5:26Jay Shetty?

  I love that. And, and is this building that fascinating to you because of the architecture, because of the cityscape? Is that how you choose what you feel inspired to climb?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  I mean, a little bit. I think in general with rock formations, you know, there are always a bunch of the different things that go into choosing a, a cool objective, but part of it is, you know, the aesthetic beauty of it. Like, is it striking? Does it, does it catch the eye? Is it beautiful? Um, I mean, part of it is, uh, in rock climbing is sort of like the mythology of it, you know, like the climbing history, like is it important to climbers? Um, and so I think with buildings, it's kind of the same way. Like, is it striking? Is it beautiful? Um, is it possible? Which in this case, it's kind of in the perfect sweet spot where it's possible and it's challenging, but it's not insanely challenging. Uh, because if you're going to do something for a TV program, it has to be, uh, well, you just have to be able to do it on command.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  So, uh, so you don't want it to be, you know, cutting edge, cutting like the hardest thing ever done. You want it to be kind of in a sweet spot where you're like, this is challenging and it's going to, you know, keep me focused, but it's not insanely difficult.

• 6:25Jay Shetty?

  You started climbing really young, right?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Well, tenish, which actually nowadays elite climbers all start even younger.

• 6:32Jay Shetty?

  Really?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  But yeah, I was lucky enough to start as a kid.

• 6:35Jay Shetty?

  And was it always the plan for it to be a professional pursuit?

• 6:38Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 6:38Jay Shetty?

  Just?

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Uh, no, my parents are both professors and, uh, you know, they were supportive and like, go do the thing that you like to do. But I mean, especially when I was young, climbing was way more fringe, way more niche. And so nobody was a professional climber, you know, but thankfully as I grew up, that kind of climbing has also grown up quite a bit. Climbing's in the Olympics now, it's just way bigger of a sport. So it's a little less unusual and there's just more money in it now. So you can actually make a living and, you know.

• 7:03Jay Shetty?

  Was there a moment that you felt that you were, you're like, oh, I'm actually good at this, like this is real. Like, when did that happen for the first time?

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Not really. It's, I mean, no, I mean, for years I thought that I would wind up being a mountain guide or something or, you know, I just wanted to, I figured I'd get some kind of job within the climbing world. And then, you know, I picked up some sponsors and started getting my gear for free and, and I was living in a van by myself. So it's pretty, pretty low overhead. You're kind of just living. And, and then eventually you're kind of like, oh, I'm making a living doing this thing I love to do. And then eventually you're making a little more and, um, and then I was like, oh, I mean, it took years until I really thought of myself as a professional climber. You know, at first it was just kind of like, I'm a basically a homeless person living in a van who happens to get climbing shoes for free. And you're like, oh, that's cool, but that's different than feeling like you're actually going to make a living as a, as a rock climber.

• 7:49Jay Shetty?

  And so you were doing this even when it, there was, there was no money, there was, this was what you, what you were chasing.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:54Jay Shetty?

  It's like you were working another job and doing this on the side.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I did work, you know, like I worked in my climbing gym, uh, when I was a kid and, you know, I worked a little bit on the side. But, uh, but no, basically I've just been trying to climb my whole life.

• 8:06Jay Shetty?

  Well, what was the first climb that you did that was challenging and, and risky or some sort of like real?

• 8:13Speaker 01

  I mean, I think as I started to dabble outdoors, cause, uh, I grew up in suburban California, like in Sacramento. And so I would just ride my bicycle to the climbing gym. And so for the first, you know, eight years of my climbing life is just going climbing in the gym. So, I mean, it's super fun and you can learn all the skills that way, but it's not particularly extreme or anything. It's not like, uh, you know, it's not what people think of as adventure. And then once I learned how to drive and then started borrowing the family car and started going outside more, then I started having some of the adventures that I think. Characterize, you know, what, what people think of as, as extreme rock climbing and all that.

• 8:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What, what's the experience for you? Like, is it the thrill? Is it the fascination? What, what part of it gives you life and brings you alive? Like, what part of it gives you joy?

• 8:58Speaker 01

  I mean, I think at the core is just the, the movement of climbing. Like, I literally just came here from the climbing gym because I had a little time.

• 9:04Jay Shetty?

  Cause you're on your hands.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. I didn't wash my hands. But, um, but yeah, it's like, there's a, there's a climbing gym relative in nearby. And I was like, oh, perfect. So just a quick session, basically just rapid fired problems around the gym. Uh, bouldering gyms are just short and, you know, safe. And I just did an hour as fast as I could. And now I'm tired and I'm like, what a nice day. So it's really just the movement of, of climbing, I think, is, is the, the, at the core. That's the joy of it. But then beyond that, there's the, the challenge, you know, like overcoming fears. You know, as a professional climber, I mean, the travel involved in it, like seeing the world, being outdoors in nature, having, you know, beautiful experiences, all your friends. I mean, there are all these other things that are amazing about climbing. But I think the thing that always brings me back to is that just like climbing, you know, it's like running or swimming or other sort of like elemental movement patterns. It just feels good to do the thing.

• 9:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Tell me about the actual skill of climbing for someone who isn't a climber.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I haven't climbed at all.

• 9:55Jay Shetty?

  I have, I don't think I've climbed at all. I'm trying to think about it in my life. I don't think I've ever climbed. And so I, I would love to understand, like, talk to me about the actual skill of climbing as if you were training me.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Even as a kid, you never climbed on things?

• 10:06Jay Shetty?

  Oh, yeah. Of course. I love climbing on things. I wanted to do parkour. My kids, my, my parents would never let me.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  I, uh, they're, but I, parkour was like my fascination. I saw kids doing parkour. I was like, that's so cool.

• 10:16Jay Shetty?

  I love climbing trees. I love climbing walls.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think that's.

• 10:19Jay Shetty?

  A lot of gates. I've climbed like that, but I mean, like I've never.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Well, I think that's the same thing, basically. And that's actually, I think, one of the interesting things, you know, with this building thing coming up, people are like, wow, do you climb a building? I'm kind of like, well, as a kid, I climbed all the buildings around my home. I climbed all the trees. I fell out of trees quite a lot.

• 10:33Jay Shetty?

  Me too.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  And, uh, you know, I'm kind of like.

• 10:36Jay Shetty?

  Just to get my wrist doing that.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. There you go. Yeah. I broke, uh, broke my arm three times as a kid, falling off plate structures and, and once in the climbing gym. But, but yeah, I mean, basically most kids, it feels like love that kind of play. And I think it's pretty normal to play on things in that way. And so it's interesting that now as an adult, people are like, why would you do that? And you're kind of like, because it's awesome. Because it's so fun. It's like the same reason the kids like to do that because it's, it's, it's cool.

• 11:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I still love a ropes course. Like, you know, if I have a but I get I get the play bit, but what are the skills that you've had to build to actually be able to do this professionally? Because there's a difference between I love the play and then, you know, I'm gonna climb the eleven tallest building in the world. Like, what's what's what's the training? What's the skill level? Talk to me about the mastery from zero to where you are today. What are the steps that it's taken to?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, I'm like, in some ways, you just go and do the thing all the time and you get better at it. Uh, you know, on the other hand, it's like I've been, yeah, I've been climbing probably five days a week for thirty years. And so you're like, oh, you're bound to slowly get better at something if you put that much effort into it. Um, but yeah, I mean, I guess the, I mean, it comes down to movement, like, how well do you move your body, like transferring your weight over your feet? Like, in theory, your legs should be driving you for most things. I mean, people think of climbing as pulling with your arms. But really, you should think of it as as climbing a steep, steep staircase. So you should be driving with your legs and you should be using your hands, almost like you were on a handrail, like for balance. Um, you know, obviously, if a climb is more than vertical, then you have to hang on with your arms more.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  But still, you should be driving as much as you can through your feet. So it comes down to technique and, you know, body position, where you, how you use your hips, all that kind of stuff. But, you know, in some ways, I think that over complicates it. It's like, really, you just go and you and you try, you know, you just go climbing.

• 12:20Jay Shetty?

  I I love I love how casual you make it sound. When I'm thinking like, in my head, I'm thinking, well, you never skip leg day because you need to work on that, like. Are there certain muscle groups that you just need to be proficient and prolific at so that you can be a better climber?

• 12:34Speaker 01

  I mean, climbing is very full body, so it's like basically use everything. I mean, if you could just like turn the dials on something, if you could turn your finger strength to infinity, then you'd be a great climber. You know, it's like, basically, if you can hold on to things very, very well, then basically you can you can climb well.

• 12:49Jay Shetty?

  How do you build your finger strength?

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Well, sadly, I'm I'm finger strength is probably my biggest weakness as a climber. It's probably the one thing that, um, or it's probably the thing that I'm worst at overall. Especially compared to my peers, like other professional climbers.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  I've always been sort of better with sort of full body. Like, I think I have good technique and so I can transfer a lot of weight to my feet and sort of keep them off my fingers because my fingers aren't that strong. But in general, you build finger strength the same way you build any other strength. You basically load your fingers and finger strength is actually your forearm strength. It's like your, you know, because you control your hand like through your forearm.

• 13:20Jay Shetty?

  Your grip strength.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, grip strength. And so you just build that by, you know, hanging from small edges or hanging with more weight on you. Uh, just, you know, you build up.

• 13:29Jay Shetty?

  How many hours do you spend training per week?

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Um, I can probably spend, you know, three to five hours in a session climbing and I can do that maybe five days a week. Or so is it, but that doesn't totally do, you know, some of the days that I go, you know, quote unquote, climbing, I'm going soloing in the mountains or something. And so of that time, a chunk of it is hiking into the thing. Some of it's climbing the thing. Some of it's like eating lunch on top and trying to figure out where the next, how to get off the mountain or whatever. You know what I mean? Like there, sometimes you can have a six or eight hour day in the mountains and you're kind of like strolling, but it's all very low intensity. You're kind of like wandering through the mountains and figuring out what you're doing. It's not like, it's not like.

• 14:07Jay Shetty?

  It's not intense the whole time, is it?

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not like Michael Phelps training in the pool or something. You know what I mean? You're like wandering around the mountains, like slightly confused, trying to figure out. And I mean, sometimes you walk into the mountains, it turns out it's cold and raining. And then you walk back and you're kind of like, well, I didn't actually climb anything and that's just the way it goes. When you, you count like hours of training and actually, so in the past, I, I used to have a training journal where I did keep track of hours. And now I don't really keep track of time because that's not really the best metric, I don't think. It's more around effort and, uh, you know, like what you've actually done.

• 14:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  It's like, cause some days you spend a ton of time, but you don't do that much. And then other days in a couple of hours, you can get completely destroyed because you're going super hard.

• 14:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What's, what's when your favorite place you've got lost?

• 14:47Speaker 01

  That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, um, I live in Las Vegas and, uh, Red Rock, uh, conservation area is like this big, world famous climbing destination, like just outside of town. And I live near it and I climb in Red Rock all the time and I still get lost all the times. Like really complicated sandstone canyons with like folds of rock and, you know, tricky. It's just, yeah, I mean, it's crazy because every season I'm like, where'd the trail go? I'm like, oh, I live here and I hike this all the time. And I'm like, how am I still lost? But you know, that's the, that's the joy of being outdoors, really.

• 15:18Jay Shetty?

  When you talk about the mindset as well, you were saying half of it is, you know, the beauty of the landscape or the rock formation. And you said the other half is just your fascination with overcoming fear and, and the mindset piece. I imagine being lost while doing something you love is quite a special feeling, it seems that you've made friends with.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  I mean, I've never really, actually, there have only been a couple of times where I've been like, lost, lost. Like, once actually climbing a thing in South Africa, I thought I was gonna have to drop into, now I forget, what's the neighboring country to the north? Um, we were right on the border, like, north of Johannesburg. Um, I forget what the next country north is. But, um, but basically I thought I was gonna have to drop over the border, like, into another country, basically go find a village. Cause we were up on a mountain, basically, and you could see villages off in the distance. But I was like, couldn't find my way back to where I was supposed to. And it's kind of like, I'm just gonna go fully rogue here and just have to like borrow somebody's phone and try to find a way to contact the people that I'm supposed to be. But, um, ultimately I found my way, eventually showed up hours late and totally torn to shreds from like crawling through the bushes, all confused. But so I've only had a few experiences like that where I'm lost, lost.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Um, for the most part, you always have a sense of where you're supposed to be going. You're just not on the trail or, you know, you can't find the best way.

• 16:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  But that is, I mean, that is kind of the joy of climbing. You just have tons of experiences like that where you're like, oh, I'm doing some crazy thing.

• 16:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I, I read that in 2016, neuroscientists conducted a brain scan and found that your amygdala responded much less to fear than the average person. Did you always feel, feel that way growing up?

• 16:45Speaker 01

  No, but I, well, so this is part of a longer thing, but I would suspect that your amygdala probably responds less to fear than the average person. Just in the same way, like years of meditation will do the same thing. It's like, you're just not gonna respond to stimulus in the same way. And so for me, I see that as, basically I've been getting afraid, I've been consistently experiencing fear all the time as a climber, you know, for years. And so then, uh, the test that they, they did for that particular brain scan, you know, you're in FMRI and then you look at these black and white photos. And I'm like, well, obviously looking at photos while I'm lying down inside of sealed tube is just not scary. You know, if you spend your whole life getting scared all the time, that's not scary. And in the same way that I'm sure if somebody scans your brain, it's gonna be different than average because you spent a ton of time working on it, basically. You're kind of like,

• 17:27Speaker 01

  That seems totally reasonable. You know, it's like, I don't know, it's a shame because there's a scene in Free Solo. You know, they show a little clip from that one. And basically, everyone watching the movie comes out of like, well, there's something wrong with his brain. And you're like, no, the takeaway is that if you practice something your whole life, you get better at it. You know, it's like, that's, that's the real lesson.

• 17:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that, that, I mean, now looking at it from your perspective, that makes a lot of sense. In that you're, you're right that when you're doing those tests, it will rarely be as scary as something you've done in reality.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's like, I get tons of questions around fear and like managing fear and all that. And, and, you know, my answers have obviously like changed over time and I've like thought about fear a ton in my life. And, and now honestly, I'm always like, you know, it's been thirty years I've been climbing all the time and climbing is really scary. Like, you're always scared, at least a little bit as a climber, because there are always consequences in climbing. Even if you're climbing with a rope and you're using protection, you're still always a little bit on edge because, you know, you're like, what if the rope cut? Like, what if, you know, I didn't tie mine up? Like, there are always these what ifs. And so you're always a little bit afraid. And so I think that it changes your relationship with fear because you're just scared all the time. I mean, you know, not like deep fear, but there's always an, an edge to it.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  And so I think that puts all the other fear in life sort of in perspective, you know, it, it gets you good at managing fear because you, you experience it a lot.

• 18:44Jay Shetty?

  How do you moderate it or regulate it in that moment? When you've got to place the next step, you've got to reach for something else, you've got to keep moving. Because I think that's, you're spot on. By the way, I love the way you're talking about fear because I think you're absolutely right that if you're constantly in a state of discomfort, but you have the right mindset, because a lot of people in the state of discomfort, but then they overthink or they procrastinate or they get stuck.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  I think it's like, if it's their first time in a state of discomfort, then it's pretty overwhelming. But if you're used to that state of discomfort, you're kind of like, oh, it's just another day. You know, and I think that's the thing with climbing is that a lot of the time, you know, you're a little bit scared, but you just totally ignore it because the rational part of your mind is like, this is fine. Like, your harness is on, like, everything is safe, the rope is safe, you're totally fine. And so you just ignore it. But then occasionally, you're like, oh, I'm scared because I'm in danger. And so then you're kind of like, oh, I should think about this and sort of evaluate, like, is, you know? Am I gonna be okay? Is it, should I, should I take different actions? Should I try to mitigate this in some way? So I don't, I mean, it totally depends. But that's the thing is the climate is you're constantly balancing those kinds of things. Like, is this fear well-founded? Should I act upon it in some way? Should I do something? Should I not, you know?

• 19:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And so, so your relationship with fear seems just very neutral. In the sense of you having a conversation with it, it's like every other day.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I sometimes, uh, I mean, fear is a sensation in your body, same as lots of other things. And so I've used this analogy before, but I'm kind of like, it's like hunger. You know, it's like when you experience hunger, you're not like, oh, my God, I'm hungry. I need a sandwich right now. You're just kind of like, okay, I should eat at some point. And I feel like, I think because people experience fear much less frequently, it feels more overwhelming.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  But, you know, if you experience fear with the same regularity that you experience hunger, then you're kind of like, okay, like, I'll deal with that in due time. Like, when it makes sense, I'll manage that. But fundamentally, feeling fear is just feeling some sensations in your body or something. Like, it's not like, doesn't matter more or less than any other thing that you feel in your body, really. Unless it's telling you you're about to die, in which case you should pay attention.

• 20:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Do you, do you feel that that, what you just said about the more frequently you are exposed to fear, the less fear affects you? Does that translate from the physical sensation to when you're having emotional, relational challenges as well?

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Probably less so than my wife wishes, you know?

• 21:02Jay Shetty?

  No, you know what I mean, right?

• 21:03Speaker 01

  I think it does a little bit, probably, because, you know, to some extent, managing fear is managing fear.

• 21:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  But it is a little bit of what you practice. Like, I think I'm really good at, at dealing with like physical fear, like physical risk and things where I'm like, I feel like I'm in danger. Less so, I mean, public speaking, I was horrified of for a long time. But again, with tons of practice, I've gotten much more comfortable. It's fine. And then like relationshipal stuff, I'm sort of like, well, that's, I mean, my wife would say there's still a long ways to go.

• 21:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, talk to me about the difference between like the fear of what you do, which most of us would see as that is scary. And then public speaking, which is known as one of the scariest things to do on planet Earth. Like, talk to me about the difference.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  No, I think it's really similar. I mean, I think most people are, I mean, I was definitely more afraid of public speaking than than climbing. But obviously, you know, I love climbing. I spent my whole life doing it. But public speaking is horrifying. Though that said, now that I've had a lot of practice with it, I would say that it's not that scary. Whereas climbing still always has some edge to it because fundamentally you could die. You know, with public speaking, it like feels like you might die, but you're just, you know, it's fine. Like you can always go out and like make a fool of yourself and it doesn't really matter.

• 22:15Jay Shetty?

  Well, that's, that's what I'm saying, right? Like the reason why we get scared of doing things that where there isn't a cost is because we almost make it out like there is a higher stake to it.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I think that with a little bit of practice, you realize that there just isn't that high of a stake. Like, you know, when you haven't done it before, you're like, what if they laugh at you? And then you're like, what if they do? Like, who cares? You know, like turns out it's totally fine. Doesn't matter. You know, but with with some of the physical fear stuff, you're kind of like, well, I mean, it does matter if you fall to your death or, you know. So those, you know, that will always have some edge to it.

• 22:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And so how do you process that in the moment when those, when that's what you're thinking?

• 22:52Speaker 01

  I mean, it depends. Sometime, you know, first take some deep breaths, compose yourself, sort of like try to deal. I mean, the thing with climbing is that there's never any time pressure to it. So you can just stand there, basically. You know, even if you're clinging to the rock, like maintaining a static position is typically not like that hard. So you can just hold on, take some deep breaths, take your time, get composed. And then try to decide whether or not, you know, it's like sometimes you get really scared for no particular reason. And then other times you're kind of like, oh, it turns out that I, you know, misjudged the rock quality. And this is much more dangerous than I thought it was. And like, maybe I should bail. And so, I mean, I've bailed off all kinds of things where you climb part way up something and you're like, this is not for me. And you just climb back down.

• 23:33Jay Shetty?

  That's interesting to hear. So you're okay with knowing your edge and knowing your limit. There's not.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  I mean, and the thing with free soloing is that you always have to stay well within your limits. You know, it's like, because like when you're climbing with a rope, you're always trying to push yourself like sort of beyond your limits so that you can learn and grow and everything. But if you're free soloing, you stay well within your comfort zone because obviously you just can't fall off.

• 23:53Jay Shetty?

  And that's what this next climb is, right?

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, this next time is free soloing, but it should be. I mean, it's interesting. It should be well within my physical comfort zone. Like, you know, I should be able to physically comment. But the sort of exciting thing for me is that I've just never climbed a building like that before. And so, um, so I think even though I'm very confident in my physical ability to do it, I'm still kind of like, well, I'm doing a new thing. And so that's always a little bit exciting.

• 24:16Jay Shetty?

  Yes. Yeah, I love that. So I, I feel like what, what I really appreciate with how we're talking about fear right now and through your reflection on it is that there's a sense of recognizing that anytime I do something new, I'll feel a sense of discomfort or fear. And that's a good thing.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:33Jay Shetty?

  Because that means I'm growing and I'm trying something new.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Well, and that's the whole thing is like, are you experiencing fear? Are you experiencing nervousness or excitement or, you know, cause a lot of those things are the same sensation in your body, really. You're like, oh, I'm like a little nervous. Or I'm feeling like butterflies and I feel tingling and I'm on edge and I feel heightened. And you're like, am I afraid or am I excited? Like, I don't know. I mean, it's hard to exactly pinpoint some of those kinds of things. And so, so I think it's, you just don't want to put too fine a point. I'm like, I'm scared. Cause you're like, or you're just psyched.

• 25:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Like, I know that when I get to the bottom of the building, like, uh, actually surprisingly, the first move off the ground is one of the harder moves on the climb. And you kind of have to like jump up and catch this thing and like start climbing and like basically taking the first step on a building is like one of the hardest. And I'm sure I'm going to be a little nervous and a little tight and just kind of like, oh, this is, you know, with cameras and people and a whole spectacle. I'd be like, this is crazy. Yeah, it's just going to be like, you know, I'm nervous, but does that mean I'm scared? I'm like, I mean, we'll see. I don't think so, but I think it'll be exciting for sure.

• 25:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. No, I, I mean, not that I've done anything that I think is that hard, but anything I've ever done for the first time.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's scary.

• 25:39Jay Shetty?

  Even if I've done it for a long time. It's still nerve wracking. Like I said, not comparing anything at all. But yes, for me, if I was going into a longer meditation than I've ever done before.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, you'd be like, this is a new step.

• 25:50Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. I'm still nervous and again.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  What is, what is the longest meditation you've done? What's considered like a long meditation?

• 25:56Jay Shetty?

  So we would do a minimum of four to eight hours a day.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  But in blocks or something?

• 26:02Jay Shetty?

  In, in full chunks. Like you could do four together or eight together.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Dude.

• 26:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. Uh, but the longest one.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  How's eight hours?

• 26:09Jay Shetty?

  The longest one I've ever done. Is probably just under twenty four hours. Yeah, the longest ever. Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Wow. How how deep did you go?

• 26:19Jay Shetty?

  It was one of the uh it was one of the ones I don't talk about. It was it was one of the best most because what what we learned through length of meditation was not to show how long you can meditate was the ability to have to disconnect from the body. Because you have to go beyond the body to be that present in the moment because you'll start and I mean yours is much harder but like you'd start feeling an ache or a pain. You start itching, you start mentally getting lost somewhere.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  When your back hurts and your butt hurts.

• 26:48Jay Shetty?

  Totally. So you've got to go beyond the body and the mind.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  When in twenty four hours, you get hungry. You have to go to the bathroom. I mean, how do you like?

• 26:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, you're fasting to make it easier, but but uh but yeah.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  But does that make it easier? I mean, it makes it easier to but you know, because just fasting for twenty four hours is its own challenge.

• 27:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we we would do it often enough. So it wasn't it wasn't again, it's what you just said about.

• 27:08Speaker 01

  It's what you practice.

• 27:08Jay Shetty?

  When you when you're practicing it, it's it doesn't sound that crazy for me to say out loud because I know other monks who've done it for three days and seven days and you know for for longer than far.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Can people meditate for seven days?

• 27:19Jay Shetty?

  Oh, absolutely.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  For real?

• 27:20Jay Shetty?

  They're they're like they're like there's some people that I mean, yeah, I'm I'm like a complete beginner when it comes to, you know, the realm of real, you know, work that some of these incredible people that I got to meet have done.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Dude, but seven days is a long time to sit.

• 27:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's a long time to sit. Maybe not good.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  I know. It feels like more than you might need.

• 27:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, it's it's always like that in interesting thing where I remember when I was starting to do cold plunges in the beginning. I'd always be like, what's the right amount of time to be in a cold plunge? And when I was.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Zero.

• 27:52Jay Shetty?

  I was gonna ask you, I love you, you can do it forever.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  No, no, I don't. I don't do that kind of thing.

• 27:55Jay Shetty?

  Oh, you don't?

• 27:56Speaker 01

  But it's because I'm kind of like, I don't think it matters. Like, I don't think it makes me better. I'm so.

• 28:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  You know, if I was convinced that this would like change my life, then I'm like, yeah, I'm sure I could do that. You know, mind over matter or whatever. But there are a lot of things like that. Same with meditation where I'm like, if I thought this was the path and like that would help me send, you know, like climb harder, then I'm like, yeah, I would do that.

• 28:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  But if I don't think so, then I'm like, no, I take a hot shower.

• 28:17Jay Shetty?

  I love that. I love that. But no, it's it's what I was saying was that when I first started to do it, it was there's there's the ego number because it makes you feel better. But then there's the number that's actually good for your health.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 28:27Jay Shetty?

  So I think most uh health experts would say three to seven minutes in there is amazing. But then people will be like, I was in there for fifteen minutes, but it's almost like it doesn't, it's not that active after the seven minutes because your body's regulated and now it's not a challenge or a shock anymore.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  And after twenty, you're dead. So, you know.

• 28:43Jay Shetty?

  Exactly.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  No real benefit.

• 28:45Jay Shetty?

  It's not actually happened. So, has there ever been anything you're like, I really want to climb that, but actually it's too risky and I, I wouldn't even bother. Like you said, you bailed.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Well, tons. Okay. So actually, so in the context of the building, so when the idea of communist skyscraper for a live thing came up, you know, whatever, twelve years ago or something, when we first scouted, the first thing I scouted was the Burj Khalifa, which is the tallest building in the world in Dubai. And it's possible you can climb it. I mean, I was able to do the moves on it, but it's a, it's cutting edge, basically. It's like very, very hard. And.

• 29:14Jay Shetty?

  How high did you get?

• 29:15Speaker 01

  I could climb the building with a rope, you know, I could climb the outside, but it's, it's just very hard. And also it's hard in the wrong ways. It's like very slippery and very, very finicky. Like you could imagine just slipping off at any moment. So basically I was kind of like, it was kind of like the El Cap of free Soloing or something. I was like, sure, if I devoted myself to this, I like moved to Dubai and just like lived on this building. It's like, yeah, it's possible. You know, like it can physically be done with the proper commitment and everything. But for a TV program, and I was like, no, this is crazy. Like I'd actually started thinking about using like a, like a D-Day style parachute, you know, like old school military parachutes. Like a modern parachute is like a wing has a direction to it. So it's actually not that helpful for something like a building because you'd have to be able to get a clean exit away from the building and turn away from it and face the correct direction. Because if you're,

• 30:00Speaker 01

  if you deployed a parachute and you went into the building, you just crumple and collapse and die. So anyway, but so like a drop parachute, just like an old school, like what you imagine, like G I Joe using, that just goes straight down. When I was playing on the Burj, I was kind of like, well, maybe I'd use something like that because then if, you know, you did slip, at least you could just basically plummet straight down the face of the building. Like it might kind of be okay. You know, maybe you break your ankle at the bottom, but you're not going to die. And so, you know, I started considering ideas like that. I was like, this is all crazy. This is too much. Like this is too extreme, basically. And so, I mean, that's an example of a climb where I'm like, yeah, it's possible. Like somebody could do it, but it's just way outside what I think is reasonable. But then when I went and scouted Type I one on one, I was kind of like, oh, it has all the same features of a striking

• 30:43Speaker 01

  building. That's like the biggest thing in the whole landscape. It's amazing. But the style of climbing is way more secure. Like the things that you're grabbing are way less slippery and they uh the shape of them works better, like you just hold on better. I was just like, oh, this is the type of challenge I'm looking for.

• 30:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I I wonder whether now after this, they're gonna start building buildings for you to climb. That's what's gonna happen.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  I don't I don't think architects even, I don't even think it crosses their mind like what humans can hold on the outside. Cause it's interesting, I mean, some buildings are just completely impossible because they're just smooth metal and glass. And then other buildings are like a ladder, you know, it's almost like a jungle gym where it's like too easy is kind of trivial, like anybody could walk up and do it if they wanted to.

• 31:22Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Like the New York Times building in uh in in uh New York City has been climbed by a handful of random people. And like some just random dude off the street just climbed like half the building because it's like a scaffolding basically. You're kind of like, well, that's not the challenge that I'm looking for because I've spent my whole life practicing this thing. I want to do something that's hard enough that it feels meaningful to me.

• 31:50Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need the most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications or location. In fact, people are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made twenty seven hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a seventy five dollar sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast.

• 32:33Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most accurate heart rate sensing in a wearable. So your vitals app, now with heart rate variability, can tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. The features described are for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. iPhone 11 or later required. Based on Apple conducted study of heart rate accuracy, August 2026. Visit apple.com slash apple watch series 12.

• 33:11Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice, the ones that quietly shape the way we move through life, giving us the confidence to focus on what really matters. That's Mazda's approach to safety. Every Mazda is designed with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected, and more engaged with your drive, so you can stay present behind the wheel. That commitment has earned Mazda recognition as Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. And as of July 2026, Mazda has won more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus awards than any other car brand. Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't. Mazda, more of what matters to you.

• 33:56Jay Shetty?

  Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services.

• 34:12Jay Shetty?

  How do you prepare for a climb? So you scout it out, but how do you then prepare? Like, how are you preparing right now for?

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I actually just started all my training type of stuff for it. It's funny, I did the scout in September because I have to do it far enough out to, you know, assemble the crew and plan the filming and all that kind of stuff. And so, and it was funny because I was super psyched at the time. Like, you go and scout it, and you're like, God, this is so cool. I'm so excited. Like, I want to do this next week. You know, I'm like, let's do this, I'm ready. But then I kind of had to just sit on it for, you know, a couple of months, just because it's scheduled for January. And so, and so now, sort of two and a half months out, I've started, like, properly training. You just don't want to start, like, really training too far out because then you'll just get, like, injured and tired. And, you know, it's like, you kind of want to peak at the right time. And so, yeah, I'm just, I don't know, like, all the, all the ways you normally train, like, eating really well, sleeping really well, exercising a tremendous amount, and

• 35:02Speaker 01

  just kind of trying to ramp up my volume so that I feel incredibly fit when the time comes.

• 35:07Jay Shetty?

  And that's so interesting that you said you have to peak at the right time. So have you learned how to do that over time, I assume, because in my head, I'm thinking, oh, wait, for something this big, you'd prepare six months in advance. But I love what you're saying.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  Well, but yeah. Yeah, like a training block, normally you can only sustain, say, three to six weeks of hard effort before you kind of need like a deload time. Like basically, you can only build for a certain amount of time, and then you need some kind of natural rest, and then you can start building again. And so ideally, you sort of like naturally build up over time. But if you were, say, six months out from an event, you'd have to have a pretty sophisticated, like, I'm gonna train really hard for a month, but then rest for like a week or two, and then train really hard, you know, you need like a complicated plan. In this case, I have a relatively simple plan, and then I'm basically just ramping until the building. And I kind of started my training, maybe a little prematurely. I was all psyched. And so I think I'm gonna take a little deload time around Christmas, which actually works perfectly with the holidays and things, because I think I'll basically wind up doing six weeks or so, and then have like a week at Christmas where I kind of chill,

• 36:03Speaker 01

  and then do another three or four weeks, and then do the thing.

• 36:05Jay Shetty?

  It's not just like us, Alex. No.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Well, it's just, it was all kind of perfectly, you know, I think it should be perfect, but we'll see. So far, so far, I'm responding well and feel really strong. And yes, great.

• 36:16Jay Shetty?

  I love hearing that, man. Yeah, no, I'm excited to see it. Like, I'm so, I'm so thrilled. It's to do it live is just, you know, you're giving us a real treat. Like, I think, you know.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  It's interesting, though, because like, for me, the live thing doesn't, if anything, it makes it more chill. Because normally, when you shoot a documentary, you go and you do the thing, and then you have to go back and film on it, and you have to shoot pickups and shoot audio, and like, do all this extra work, basically. And so, you know, it's this tremendous amount of effort. But for the live event, I'm kind of like, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna do it, and then I'm gonna fly home and I'm done. It's totally amazing. It's like, as soon as I do the climb, I'm totally done.

• 36:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. No, but I'm saying for us, it's more fun, because we get to be there with you.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But I just don't, you know, I basically don't totally care.

• 37:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  You know, about like, other people experience, like, because.

• 37:02Jay Shetty?

  Oh, you don't? Oh, so interesting.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Not really, you know?

• 37:05Jay Shetty?

  Oh, interesting. Okay.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Sort of like, if it was a film about it, like, that'd be fine for me, too. The live thing, basically, I want to, I want to do a climb that I'm proud of. Like, I'm excited about climbing it. And the way other people experience that, I'm kind of like.

• 37:16Jay Shetty?

  You know, yeah.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't want to say I don't care, because I want other people to have, you know, a good time from it. But like, you know, that's not the priority. You know what I mean?

• 37:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, well, you do it because you love it.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's that's kind of the thing. And I think. Yeah.

• 37:31Jay Shetty?

  That's brilliant. What a great place. I think everyone wants to live that way. You do it because you love it. It doesn't really matter.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's funny. Like, when it first got announced as a project, there was, you know, the sort of expected online hate and stuff from people in the climbing community being like, why would you do that? That's stupid. Why climb buildings? Too risky. Or like, you know, whatever, you know, criticism for various reasons. But I was kind of like, man, wait till you see the thing. It's so cool. It's so fun. You know, if you had the opportunity to do this, you would do it too. Because like, any climber would say yes to this because it's it's super fun. And any, you know, like getting an opportunity to do something amazing. It's like, why would you ever say no to that? But my goal for the, you know, if I can say I have a goal for the building, I mean, other than climbing it, is just to actually have fun doing it.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Because I'm kind of like, that's what I want people to see from it. Like, this is awesome. You know, not like there's some death-defying stunt. It should be like, this is amazing. Like, this is so fun. This is joyous, you know?

• 38:23Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  We'll see.

• 38:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love how playful you make it because appealing to that part, I think we can all relate to that. When it was just, when it was playful, when it was exciting, when it was.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. It's like, this thing is gets wrapped in all this like, it's extreme. And you're kind of like, yes, I mean, yes, it's very high consequence. Like, if I make a mistake, if I totally botch something, I could die. And you're like, yeah, that's, you don't want to downplay that too much. But at the same time, it's pretty fun. And the thing is that those are the same consequences if I don't pay attention when I'm driving or like whatever else. There are plenty of other things you do in life where if you botch it, you're gonna die. And yet people take some of those things for granted. It's like, oh, that's just normal life. You're kind of like, well, you know, it's like, you gotta be intentional around where you're taking your risks.

• 39:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Do you think that's a helpful mindset when you are doing things as well to recognize it, to see it more as, I guess, grounded and real and normal in terms of when you're processing things? Is that a helpful mindset?

• 39:16Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 39:17Jay Shetty?

  Like, even just the way you describe it, which I agree with, you're like, yeah, well, there's crazy risk in this as well. And you're right, like in driving, for example, and texting and, you know, all that kind of stuff or drink driving or whatever.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, drinking and driving, to me is the thing. People are always like, oh, climbing seems dangerous. And you're like, well, the thing with climbing is at least you're choosing the risks that you're taking. And obviously, I'm training for them. I'm preparing for them. You know, I have, I have like imagery of the building at home. So I can visualize the moves, you know, like, there's a lot that goes into it. Whereas people go on, party on a Friday night and then they drive home and they're like, what else? You know, it's just a Friday, I'm partying. And you're like, well, those, you're taking a tremendous amount of risk, sort of unintentionally.

• 39:55Jay Shetty?

  Same texting and driving too.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, and those are the types of things where you're like, you know, it's like, if you're not choosing to take those risks, I don't know. I mean, I think that's kind of worse.

• 40:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Talk to me about the visualization, because I'm such a big fan of visualization.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I read about it.

• 40:08Jay Shetty?

  As a meditation technique. Talk to me about where you just said you have a picture of the building.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, so, I mean, in rock climbing, like when I'm climbing hard routes, let's say, you always just imagine the route, you think about it, you remember the moves. Part of it is to physically remember what to do, like left hand, right hand, like drop the left hip, you know, turn the knee, things like that, like the mechanics of it. And then part of the visualization is like, what will it feel like? Particularly around freestyle and things that you're not going to be able to practice necessarily. So some of the visualizing is just, you know, like, how will it feel to put my foot on something that's really slippery when, you know, I'm going to die if it slips? And so you're just kind of imagining the sensations and all that, that kind of stuff.

• 40:46Jay Shetty?

  So you can't, as part of freestyle, you can't go and climb this building at any point in order to practice.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Well, no, I can go practice it with a rope.

• 40:53Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  But the thing is, you just don't know, because when you have a rope on, you don't really mind if your foot's going to slip or something.

• 40:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  But then when you take the rope away, you're kind of like, well, is it going to feel different? Like, I don't know. And you can't totally practice that. So you kind of have to do that mentally. Just imagine it and.

• 41:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. So you get a sense while you're on the rope, almost as a dress rehearsal feeling. And then you're having to remember that feeling.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and, and sort of imagine the potential feelings. Cause part of the, the benefit of visualization, I think, is that you're like, what if it's humid that day? What if it's particularly dry? And like with the building, it's interesting because with glass and metal, you know, the texture is obviously really different than rock. And so I'm not sure if I want it to be humid or if I want it to be dry. Like with rock, you normally want it to be super dry, because if it's humid, it's too slippery on the rock. But with a building, because it's so slippery to begin with, I think you actually want some humidity. So it doesn't feel as slippery. Like you want your skin to stick to it a little bit. And so you want like a little bit of dampness, but obviously you don't wetness. You don't want it to be wet, because then it's really slippery. So anyway, just thinking about stuff like that, I mean, that's all part of visualization, I think. But what I was going to say is that with, with rock climbing, you know, you don't normally have footage

• 41:56Speaker 01

  of any of this type of stuff. So you just imagine it, you remember, you think about the climb. With this building, you know, we already went and did a scout and they were practicing the camera positions. They flew a drone up and down the building to like figure out the angles and all that kind of stuff. And so. I never, I don't think I'd ever done this before, but I was, I kind of reached out to the production team. It was kind of like, send me, you know, selects of the whole building so I can remember all the, all the different sequences better. And so they sent me just some visuals of the building, but then they also sent me some clips of me climbing different things. And I was like, oh, this is actually tremendously useful because I can see, you know, how I'm doing it and what I can do better. And just, you know, I was like, oh, this is great.

• 42:29Jay Shetty?

  I love that you use visualization as a technique, though.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Every climber does. It's a really big part of climbing.

• 42:34Jay Shetty?

  And you're visualizing the process, the texture, the feeling.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 42:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, every detail that you could possibly imagine or know from.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  And sometimes you're imagining, you know, the experience, like the consequences of it are like, what if you do fall? Like, um, I mean, like particularly with, with freestyle, I'll cab, like with, I've spent so long kind of working on that. I mean, I thought about like, what if I fell from here or fell from there? Just because, and even though those are terrible things to visualize because you fall into your death in horrible ways. Cause, uh, you know, in a lot of places falling off a mountain, it's not like a clean, it's not like I fell and then you hit the ground. It's like you bounce, you know, hundreds of feet or a thousand feet and it's a disaster. And so, but it's important to think about that stuff ahead of time so that when you're up there, you know, suddenly for the first time, you know, it's not like, oh, if I fell here, it would be horrible. It's like, no, you've already thought about that. You visualize it, you processed it and, and you've chosen to set that aside and execute the climb anyway.

• 43:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. You've already sat with the discomfort of that feeling in a safe environment.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 43:30Jay Shetty?

  So now you can track that and bring that with you to this.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now you don't have to think about it while you're up there.

• 43:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  I mean, ideally you think through all that stuff ahead of time.

• 43:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  And so far with the building, I haven't gotten too deep into all that yet, just because I'm still kind of a ways out and I'm sort of focused on the physical side. And it's just not quite as close to my personal edge. I, I think I'm pretty sure. Like I just, I think it should be well within my comfort zone, I think.

• 43:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  So there's just not as much time to vote to like, what if I die? Uh, but you know, we'll see.

• 43:58Jay Shetty?

  No, no, I, I, but I love the visual. Do you, what's interesting to me is I'm thinking about all of us and. I, you know, I, I think the smallest things in the world would be easier if, so for example, I've been public speaking for years and I've always asked for a picture of the stage so that I can visualize myself walking out, so that I don't trip over when I go out there, so that I, and I, I think about all the, and I'm giving a very human example of something that, that I hope my listeners can take away going, okay, well, how do I use that? I'm like, yeah, I visualize myself giving presentations, I visualize myself doing difficult things for the first time, I visualize pretty much everything, I use it as a technique.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  You're a trained visualizer though, so it's like an easy tool for you to pull out of the box.

• 44:39Jay Shetty?

  For sure, but I would really encourage people to do it because hearing you talk about it, I'm like, yeah, you're visualizing all the details and what I love that you haven't once said, and I want to ask you about this, is you didn't just say, oh, I visualize myself getting to the top and celebrating, it's like, no, I visualize.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  I don't care about that.

• 44:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, I thought you didn't, that's what's like, talk to me about that because I think that's what, today when we talk about manifesting and visualizing, people have this, visualize where you want to live.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, visualize success.

• 45:04Jay Shetty?

  Right?

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're like, who cares about that? Because like, that'll just follow, like, if that happens, great, if it doesn't, whatever.

• 45:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, it's funny, I haven't visualized that. Actually, I mean, it's not totally true because the, the, the top of the building is this incredible little spire, it's like a small little, it's like, it's basically the space between us, it's just a little dome, and so you just stand on this, yeah, you stand on this tiny little pinnacle and it's incredible and the view is insane. Um, but you know, I've already gone up there, like climbed up through the hatch just to like check it out and rappel off the side and things. And so, I mean, I know it's amazing and I know that it's going to feel amazing to stand up there, so I haven't really like visualized that because I'll just, you know, it's like when it happens, it happens. But no, you visualize the stuff that's important, but, but actually, I mean, talking about this, maybe think, I think in some ways, if you're talking to like the, the layperson audience, whatever, I think maybe it's worth not framing it as visualization because, uh, you know, over the years as a climber,

• 45:54Speaker 01

  I've always just kind of thought of as daydreaming, you know, it's like, because also as a climber, you spend so much time hiking to and from cliffs and I spend a lot of time by myself walking around, you know, in the mountains. And you just spend a lot of time daydreaming, basically like thinking about climbing. And so, you know, occasionally like a project like this, I'll intentionally visualize where I'm like, okay, I'm getting ready for a thing. But basically anytime I go wandering in the mountains, I spend a tremendous amount of time just thinking about, you know, like your mind's always wandering on something. It might as well be wandering through climbs that you're excited about, or things that you're thinking about, or projects that you have, like things on the back burner that you didn't quite do that you want to go back to. So, you know, I mean, I think it's less daunting to think of it as like, oh, when you're out for a hike, or like out for a walk with your dog, you just daydream about things that matter to you. Like that is visualization.

• 46:37Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  You know, like you can make it more focused and you can, you can do it more intentionally. But at the core, it's just, it's just imagining stuff.

• 46:45Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes, I like that. And the truth is, all of us are imagining, but most of us are imagining worst case scenario. Like so we imagine the meeting and going, oh God, I'm gonna get fired today, or you know, that, that's how we imagine.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  I, I wonder about that because, so I, I don't really have that so much.

• 46:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I didn't think you did.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I do kind of wonder if I'm just, like, just a little less neurotic than average, like as a base, hardwired, you know what I mean?

• 47:09Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Like it's interesting, I've, I've read it, you know, I just read your book, I've read a ton of like self-help type stuff over the years and, and like all kinds of, and generally I read it, I'm like, I'm already living my best life. Like I love my life, I'm doing what I love to do, I like, I love the, and so, I mean, for whatever reason, I love reading books like that because I feel like if I get one little nugget that like helps me, it's like totally worth it. And, but at the same time, I'm just kind of like, I don't know if this book was written for me, you know what I mean? Like I'm, I don't feel like I'm struggling with a lot of the things that, that it seems like some of these types of books are written for.

• 47:39Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  Like I'm not struggling with, with inner turmoil around a lot of this type of stuff. I'm kind of like, is that, you know, basically is that nature or nurture? It's like, is that just the way it is, or, or is that a lifetime spent outside being scared and I don't, I don't know.

• 47:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, I mean, I, I've.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  You like, like how much natural anxiety do you have?

• 47:57Jay Shetty?

  No, I feel similarly to you.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Okay, like you just never felt afflicted by like.

• 48:01Jay Shetty?

  That wasn't how I operated in general, yeah, it was just not how I, and I think it's because I was exposed to so much of it when I was young. So I, I think it is the exposure of being overexposed to discomfort, anxiety, pain, stress, but I've seen that go both ways. So I've seen that lead to people becoming free of it or having less of it or being able to know how to manage it. I've also seen it go towards.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Like crippling anxiety.

• 48:29Jay Shetty?

  Correct. And then I've seen also people creating great success in order to protect themselves from it.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 48:35Jay Shetty?

  And so there's almost like, it can go in three ways. And so it's not that simply being exposed to discomfort makes you stronger.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it depends on how.

• 48:44Jay Shetty?

  It depends on how the person reacts to it. It's almost like, there's this old story which I love, which is like, when you put three different things in boiling water, the different things happen to them. So it's like, you put, um, you put a potato in boiling water, it gets softer. You put a, a egg in boiling water, it gets harder. You put, uh, coffee beans in boiling water, they let out the best scent. And so there's this old story that goes, which one are you? Are you a, you know, an egg, a potato, or are you a coffee bean?

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 49:09Jay Shetty?

  And so it's almost like the pressure of hot water, what does it do to you?

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 49:12Jay Shetty?

  And that's always been an interesting thing of, do we get to choose that? Or are we wired that way?

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, is that.

• 49:17Jay Shetty?

  What does that look like?

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I think about that stuff more now. I have two little kids and so, uh, you know, like questions of nature versus nurture, I just think about a lot more because you're kind of like, you know, are we having any impact on these children? Like, are they just fully baked as, as.

• 49:29Jay Shetty?

  How are you finding? I'm intrigued as to.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Well, they're so young, it's hard to tell. But you just see so much innate in them when you're like, you're just your own little person. And, you know, there are probably things that we could do negatively to like negatively impact their development. But I don't know how much we're gonna do positively. You know what I mean? I'm kind of like, I think they're gonna be fine. But in some ways, it takes away a lot of the stress of parenting where you're just kind of like, you know, I'm not trying to like shape them into anything. Like, I think they're gonna be freaking great. We're just trying to make sure they're happy and safe and, you know, like, have their material needs met and things and let them blossom into whatever they're gonna blossom into.

• 50:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  But we'll see. I mean, I'm just starting. I don't really know anything about parenting. We're just, we're just winging it.

• 50:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. No, I, I remember a friend, like, I, we're not parents yet, but, uh, I remember a friend, like, they. Raise their kid where like their kid would be like playing with fire and like jumping up and down and running around and it's like, and I would, I didn't, I was much younger then and I didn't know their style and so I would get scared when their kid was near a candle or something. It'd be like, no, let the kid be near a candle, like they'll figure it out themselves.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're very much like that.

• 50:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I'll just talk about risk taking and all that. I mean, I definitely, I think with the kids, you know, obviously I don't want to see them get grievously injured, but I don't really mind seeing them get a little bit injured. It was like seeing them fall down all the time. I'm like, that's fine. It's like, I mean, as a climber, you just fall down all the time. And like, you just get, you know, boo boos nonstop. And so like with the kids, you're just kind of like, yeah, that's fine to get hurt all the time. You just, but we're there to prevent catastrophic injuries and like, and, and now we kind of see that already with the kids where you're like, oh, you know, they just seem a little bolder than, than some other kids their age, maybe. But then you wonder, is that nature? Is that nurture? Is that because we allow them the latitude to explore like that? Or is that, you know, because it's my daughter and whatever, you know?

• 51:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  I don't know. It's like my wife and I are already sort of adventurous people or like, and so our kids are too. I don't know.

• 51:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, we'll see.

• 51:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Can you, can you be a climber and be a perfectionist?

• 51:23Speaker 01

  I think, yeah, I think you can be. And in some ways, I actually think, um, I think I'm a recovered perfectionist in some ways.

• 51:29Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me about that.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know. I mean, I think that, um, my mom is like a major perfectionist, like, kind of like, like psycho. And so I think we were sort of raised that way. It's like, that's the, that's the, the norm. But I mean, but the reality is like, I'm a very lazy person. Like I just often do the bare minimum and things that I don't care about.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Or like the minimum requirement to, to, you know, whatever. And so, I don't know, like, how do you reconcile like perfectionist tendencies of being incredibly lazy? Sort of like, I don't know, it's tough. And so now I think, um, I don't know, I think I've hit a real sweet spot where it's like, I work really hard on the things I care about and then everything else I just don't stress.

• 52:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's, that makes a lot of, I mean, that to me seems to be a trait of highly, high performers and successful people in general, that they're able to know.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Well, focus on the thing that matters.

• 52:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and what not to waste, absolutely, and what not to waste time on and.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  But it's taken me a long time to get there, I think. You know, because I think through early life, you're just so hung up on like appearances and what you should be doing, what you think you ought to be, you know, whatever. And then eventually you're just kind of like, you know, I'm only good at a couple of things. I should just focus on the thing I'm good at and just do it.

• 52:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Just and and just be happy doing it.

• 52:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Talk to me. I wanted to go back. You were saying that right now you're working out, diet, sleep, like walk me through what that routine looks like. I love I love learning about people who live incredible lives and their different systems that they have in place to be able to pull off great feats.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, it's all normal stuff like eat well, exercise.

• 53:00Jay Shetty?

  Oh, what are you eating? I'm intrigued.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I'm eating a vegetarian, basically. Um, you know, mostly whole foods. I don't know, like dinner last night was like tofu roasted. Uh, uh, broccoli and cauliflower and some like some purple sweet potato thing. Uh, I think that was it. Oh, and some Brussels sprouts. But it's basically just a bowl of like vegetables and and it's it's interesting because even like a couple of months ago, I would have thought of that as a sort of inadequate dinner. You know, but like the last several weeks, I've basically just been eating like whole foods and no sugar and and like wholesome meals. And I'm kind of like, you know, I've just kind of like adapted to it like this feels good and I feel great. And, you know, I'm sleeping well and.

• 53:38Jay Shetty?

  How much do you try and sleep and when do you sleep?

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Well, basically, I mean, the babies have been waking up. Actually, we have like a they'll they'll be two and four in February. So right now is like one and three quarters or whatever. Um, but for whatever, he's just waking up in the middle of the night a bunch right now. Uh, which is like a new, I think it's like a developmental phase, you know, it's like she's suddenly made a leap, but she's saying way more, but you're like, God, go back to sleep. Like, oh, man. But so we we basically sleep from like ten to six every day, like roughly eight hours every day. But then it's sometimes a little more or less, but then you, you know, the other night I got up at three and then just like made a bottle for my baby and like did a whole nother bedtime for it three in the morning, like basically like read her a story and put her back to bed. It was kind of like, huh, what an unusual night.

• 54:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Um, so, you know, I can't take it too seriously. It's not like.

• 54:25Jay Shetty?

  Sure.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  But, you know, it's it's enough, though. I mean, we're sleeping well.

• 54:29Jay Shetty?

  And vegetarian over a meat diet because?

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Um, I've always cared more about the environmental impact, like just the the the impact on the earth. But I also feel like it's a little cleaner and I'm not like super uptight about it. Like I'll eat fish and um, and generally I'll eat meat if it's going to be wasted, you know, if like somebody has a serving, I'm like, oh, what's better than throwing it away? Um, but I just don't buy meat and I don't really do dairy.

• 54:53Jay Shetty?

  Do you find that affects your performance too?

• 54:55Speaker 01

  I think I'm kind of lactose intolerant a little bit and so I'm kind of like, it's probably not like the best. But um, yeah, it's just, but again, it's also better for the earth. I'm kind of like, ah, it seems better.

• 55:04Jay Shetty?

  Right, interesting.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  The main thing for me is not eating desserts, like not eating extra sugar. It just keeps everything.

• 55:09Jay Shetty?

  Do you have a sweet tooth?

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely.

• 55:11Jay Shetty?

  So then that's hard then.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Well, I actually, so interesting, I'm maybe like two weeks into eating really well right now and uh, and you just lose the cravings. Yeah, you feel so much better.

• 55:19Jay Shetty?

  Once you get past that, I go through periods of being completely off. And then I have like, you know, during Christmas time, I'll probably

• 55:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 55:27Jay Shetty?

  dabble a little bit again, but when I'm off, I, I feel like my taste buds change.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, you just feel so much better.

• 55:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  I know it's all the things you read about in books that you're just like, nah, that's stupid. And then you actually experience it and you're like, well, it does seem like it's true.

• 55:41Jay Shetty?

  Imagine it's the twenty second of January. What do you do? What's your ritual the night before? Is it different? Do you have a ritual that's different?

• 55:48Speaker 01

  But the night before, um,

• 55:50Jay Shetty?

  A big climb.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  I mean, the day before Bioresta, I might do some cardio or something, go for like a light run or go. There are, there are a bunch of really cool mountains like in the city. So you can go run around them. They're like monkeys in the jungle and stuff. It's really cool. So you can like run around in the mountains a little bit. Um, so I'll probably do some cardio or something, but basically no strenuous exercise. And then uh, yeah, I'll just go to bed early and you know, just try to eat well and go to sleep. Basically, you just want it to be normal.

• 56:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Like it's a normal day, it's chill. And then you wake up the next day and you do the thing.

• 56:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's, it, when I'm, when I'm hearing you speak about it, which is really refreshing is that it's such a, it feels like such a natural part of your life.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Well, I think that's how you want to make it.

• 56:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Because then it doesn't feel extreme.

• 56:30Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  You know, it doesn't like, it doesn't require some crazy thing that you do. You're like, this is, this is what you do. This is normal.

• 56:35Jay Shetty?

  Yes, and I can, I can liken it to, uh, and I'm only translating it because always thinking about our listeners, but I can translate it to. In the past, if I was sitting down with someone that I was a huge fan of and I built that up, it would actually make me a bad interviewer.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Totally, because you're all.

• 56:53Jay Shetty?

  Because you're all like, oh my.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  You're on edge.

• 56:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I would do that when I first started the show and then over time, people saw me relax in and ease in. And sometimes I said to people, I was like, it's not that I wasn't super excited. It was just I had to contain it to do my job.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  You're all, keep it chill, keep it chill. I got this.

• 57:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  No, so exactly what you're saying. So with, with Free Soloing El Cap, like I knew it would be the biggest thing I'd ever do. Like I knew, I mean, I didn't think the film would be as successful as it was, but, but I knew that it would be far beyond anything I'd ever done. Because this, you know, it's a feature documentary and whatever. And, and I knew the climb would be insane. But at the same time, you know, the main challenge of Free Soloing is psychological. Like I had climbed El Cap with ropes, you know, many years before. I'd climbed it without falling off many years before. Like technically, I was physically able to do it many years before. But the psychological challenge, the believing you can do it, you know, when your life's on the line, that like, that's a, that's a bigger challenge. And so I didn't want to build it up even bigger in my mind, because you're like, the challenge is already psychological.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  I don't need to like pile on and make it even harder. And so a big part of my strategy with El Cap was to make it part of my normal year. And so like, right after I Free Soloing El Cap, I went on this expedition to Alaska, which is like a normal, as a professional climber, you go on trips to places, you try to climb new walls, whatever. And so it allowed me to look at my Yosemite season that year as kind of building up for Alaska. And actually, in the Alaska trip was because I went on an expedition later in that year to Antarctica. And I was kind of like, oh, I haven't been on skis in a while. It would be nice to like, do some glacier travel and climb some big granite spires on snow, because it'll be good for Antarctica. And so I was kind of like, oh, Yosemite season is building up for Alaska, which is building up for Antarctica. And so it took a lot of the pressure off having to achieve on El Cap or whatever. Because I'm like, oh, either way, this is practice

• 58:37Speaker 01

  for these other things coming up. And I mean, I knew that the other things don't frigging matter compared to Free Soloing El Cap. But, you know, it's like, it's good to keep it, keep it feeling chill. So I mean, I've always been into sort of stacking my goals in that way and trying to make sure that you don't let them get too big. You know, it's like you keep it all. I don't know. Yeah. So the building is kind of the same way where I'm like, obviously that's more important than some of the other things I'm working on right now. But I do have a bunch of other climbing projects that are sort of intermixed with the training. And so it keeps it all feeling mellow.

• 59:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. When you when you summit like El Cap or anything like that, where you where you reach the top, how do you find you process that feeling? Like, what does that feel like to you? Is it gratifying? Do you experience it?

• 59:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I'm psyched. I'll be like, this is amazing. I mean, with El Cap, it was such a long and it was so on the edge of what I thought was possible. And so it meant a lot, you know, it meant a lot to me. I put so much into it and the pressure with the film crew and all this stuff. I mean, it was insane. So I definitely was like, this is this is amazing. I mean, the building too, I'm sure I'll stand on the top and be like, this is awesome. I'll be so psyched. But then, you know, I'll take the elevator down and be like, okay, what a day. I was like, what a joy. I'm sure I'll be glowing like until I'm back home. But then as soon as I fly back to my home in Las Vegas, I'll be back to normal climbing projects, like things that because I wouldn't be at all surprised. Basically, there's several other things I'm trying to do at home as a sort of build up and training for the the building. And I wouldn't be surprised if I don't manage

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  to do any or all of them. You know, we'll see which things I manage to do. And so as soon as I finish the building, I'll just be back to try to finish my training goals, basically.

• 1:00:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Is it is it right? You were talking about waking up and the baby being awake at night? Is this the first time you're doing a climb as a father and a husband?

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  No, no, it's not. I mean, I've done a handful of things that are that are cutting edge with the kids. Actually, I did kind of my hardest like free solo to date for the spear. Like, it'll be this cool, like insane. It was a bunch of the same crew from Free Solo. So it's like the same same co directors and stuff. And so it was really fun to get them back together and we and I free soloed this wall in in Jordan, in the Middle East. It's like 1200 foot sandstone wall. And it was probably, I told my wife, it's like probably top 10 hardest things I've ever sold, but she was like, top 10 is like kinda hard because I've actually done way more than, than what's in the public, like on film. Um, cause just building up to El Cap, I did like a ton of things that were, that are very hard. And so this thing for the sphere, that was probably the first thing I've done with kids where I was like, this is actually kinda

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  cutting edge and pretty hard. And before doing it, I was kind of like, is this gonna be different? You know, like, am I gonna be up there thinking about my kids being like, oh God, this is so scary now. But I got up there and I was like, this is awesome. So it's like, is this amazing? Well, it's a really classic route. It's, it's famous and it's, uh, it's, it's really high quality. And so I was just up there being like, this is so amazing. And I felt great.

• 1:01:22Jay Shetty?

  So you can experience that in the sphere in Vegas?

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Uh, in, in next, next fall, I think.

• 1:01:27Jay Shetty?

  Oh, that's so cool. That's awesome.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, we'll see. Uh, I, I think it's hard to film for something like that. You know, it's hard to shoot on these crazy cameras.

• 1:01:35Jay Shetty?

  That place is amazing.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  So we'll see what, how it turns out. But in theory, next, uh, next fall, there'll be a thing like that. This, this might all need to get cut.

• 1:01:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Well, it's like, I don't know, ask somebody who's smarter than me.

• 1:01:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. I just, uh, I just, I just went to watch Wizard of Oz there.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Oh, was it cool?

• 1:01:50Jay Shetty?

  But it was insane.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've heard it's really cool.

• 1:01:51Jay Shetty?

  It was incredible. I was so blown away by it and I can't imagine, you know.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the thing is I think seeing Soling like that would be like insane.

• 1:01:57Jay Shetty?

  It'd be amazing. Yeah, it'd be a real experience.

• 1:02:07Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Orange Theory Fitness. One of the best investments you can make is in your own strength. The choices you make today can help shape how you feel for years to come. Orange Theory Fitness provides a one hour workout to build strength, burn fat and build muscle with an expert coach guiding you every step of the way. Head to orangetheory.com slash onpurpose to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details. This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving

• 1:02:49Jay Shetty?

  behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favorite podcast. Choose a cellar or Northeast Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are. But it can be challenging to balance style, budget and endless options. I was looking to create a dedicated calm space for my morning meditation and reading, but I was struggling to find pieces that felt grounding but could also stand up to daily use.

• 1:03:30Jay Shetty?

  I went on Wayfair and found a beautiful, solid wood accent chair and a bookshelf. Now that corner is my favorite place to anchor my day. The quality is incredible, it's built to last and it completely shifted the energy of the room. Plus, you can shop with Wayfair Verified, where product specialists carefully vet items for quality and functionality, so you can shop with more confidence. And if putting it all together sounds like a headache, Wayfair can handle delivery, installation and assembly. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 1:04:23Jay Shetty?

  So it's interesting, you said that, you know, you've done, to hear you say you've done crazier, harder climbs that have never been documented.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Well, not harder than LCAP.

• 1:04:32Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  But leading up to LCAP, well, actually, so let's see, I mean, I can remember. So leading up to LCAP, I had three other routes that were very, I mean, they're similar. They're not as hard and they're not as big, but they kind of led up to it. And one of them got filmed for YouTube, basically. And then the other two, never, nobody ever even saw them. You know, like, like one of my friends saw one of them with binoculars from the parking lot. This is one area, but like, basically, nobody saw any of the other stuff.

• 1:04:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  One of them, not only did nobody see it, like, nobody was even in the climbing region. I went in and I'd been planning on prepping it for several days, but then my van ran out of propane and it was like this insanely long windy road to go back to town. And I was kind of like, oh, I can't cook. And so I was like, screw it. So I just did the solo the next day so I could drive back out and just leave. Cause I didn't want to, because I couldn't cook and I didn't want to take a, whatever. So I was like, well, that's the ultimate, like rushed solo. You know, you're kind of like, nobody saw it, nobody, there was no plan. I just like got it done and left.

• 1:05:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  Yes, I've done a lot of things like that over the years.

• 1:05:29Jay Shetty?

  Wow. Well, do you um, do you have conversations with your wife before you decide what you're gonna climb and stuff? Or is this kind of like, this is what I'm doing and?

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, for, no, for the most part, I mean, uh, when we first met, I mean, like, have you seen the free film Free Solo? It all sounds pretty, you know, like, like I don't care at all about her feelings. And, and I think that's gives a slightly wrong impression just because at that point I'd been dreaming about El Cap for, you know, eight years or something. And then I'd met, uh, I actually met my now wife, uh, at the exact same time that we started filming for the, the documentary. So we filmed for sort of two years to make the documentary. And so that was the first two years of our relationship. And, you know, I was like, oh, she's amazing. And this is great. But, you know, it's some random person I met six months ago, like, it's not gonna get in the way of a life dream. You know, but now it's totally different because now I'm like, oh, we've been together 10 years. We have kids. We have a life together. Like, you know, I

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  live with like my in-laws and then, you know, it's all, um, it's all much more tightly woven. And so her opinion matters a lot more for projects now.

• 1:06:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. How, how did you know she was the right person?

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  I don't know. She's just, she's so great. I mean, um, I think when I proposed, there was, uh, I said something along the lines of, uh, you know, like, this is great. Can we just keep doing this forever? You know, like, like, why not? Uh? Yeah. Yeah. I've never been into the big like romantic gesture type things. I kind of think the day to day life is like, one of the things that I think is great in our, in our life, like we have what we call sleepovers at night. Like basically at night, we always chit chat for a really long time. Um, which is detrimental to our sleep, but it's like, but whenever we go to bed, we always have like, you know, we chit chat for a while. And I'm like, oh, it's so nice. You know, it's like, you want to have a buddy that you chit chat with your whole life. I'm kind of like, I don't know, I'm gonna do that forever.

• 1:07:05Jay Shetty?

  I love that, man. Does she find obviously what you do inspiring? Like what, how does, what's her take on it? Like if she was here right now and I was like, describe what Alex does, like how it feels for her. What would you say?

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you know, she must be at least slightly impressed by it. I mean, she didn't meet me at a book event. But at the same time, I don't think she, yeah. Well, actually though, she didn't really climb at the time. Her friend was into it. And so her friend basically dragged her along, like, come to this event. And, uh, she had just gotten disillusioned with dating apps. And she was like, the next person I see that I think is cool, I'm gonna give them my number. And so afterward I was like signing books and she just gave me her number. I was like, cool. And so I texted her and then, uh, and now we're married, you know? Long, long story short.

• 1:07:41Jay Shetty?

  That's awesome.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. But, um, yes, obviously she must care a little bit, but I don't think she cares that much.

• 1:07:48Jay Shetty?

  Is she a climber too?

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Now she's, uh, she basically kind of started climbing roughly the same time that we, she had just started when we met. And so now it's been 10 years and, you know, now she's quite a good climber.

• 1:07:57Jay Shetty?

  Wow, that's awesome. That's amazing. Will you ever do a climb together?

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  Well, we climb together all the time, not like extreme climbing. Um, but yeah, we try to climb together as much as possible. Now with the two kids, it's a little harder for us to go out together. But then now, I mean, sometimes we go on sort of climbing trips as a family and then the kids just run around the forest and play and we boulder. You know, it's like, we're going to do a family bouldering trip in France, uh, in the springtime. It's like a really famous bouldering destination, but it's amazing for the kids because basically a sandy forest with, you know, nice soft trees and sand everywhere. So the kids just roam and play. It's like really cool.

• 1:08:30Jay Shetty?

  Is there a part of the world that you're fascinated by that you haven't visited yet?

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Actually, Southeast Asia. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm fascinated, but I've never been. I've always wanted to, and there's tons of climbing. It's also kind of hot and humid. And so, uh, I'm sure I'll go at some point. But honestly, I've, I traveled quite a lot before, before I had my wife and kids, uh, you know, I was kind of abroad, like maybe three months a year or something for climbing trips. And so a lot of that now, I'm kind of waiting until the kids are a little older. Cause I'm like, if I'm going to travel, I'm going to take the kids and I want them to be old enough to remember it and have a real life experience. So I think in general, our traveling is all a little bit on hold until kids are older. And then I'm like really excited to show them some of these places.

• 1:09:09Jay Shetty?

  Do you believe your work has a message or a mission beyond personal joy and fulfillment and thriving in play? Or, or is it truly that is it?

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  I mean, not that big of a mission. I mean, so part of the reason that I started the Honnold Foundation a long time ago, I mean, I started this foundation that supports community solar projects around the world. Was that, you know, I had a lot of work opportunities that I didn't necessarily need to take because I didn't need the money because I was living by myself in a van. I was kind of like, you know, I don't, I don't need to make this. I mean, this, a lot of this stemmed from one specific experience where I shot this, uh, commercial for a bank. And, uh, you know, and, and they wound up airing the commercial a ton. And this wasn't even like, it wasn't even for me as like a famous climb or anything. It was like SAG rates or whatever, like screen action skills. I just signed the normal contract. But they wound up using the ad a, a ton. It aired all over the world. And so I made, you know, like six figures or something off of like a day and a half of shooting.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  And I was like, well, there's no justice in that, you know? And the thing is, is that it was work that I would have done for free because it's like, you're going out with your friends and you're climbing some spire and they're shooting with a helicopter and it's super, you know, it's crazy. It's like super fun work. You're like, this is a total life experience. That you would do as a rest day anyway. You know what I mean? Cause like when you're shooting a commercial like that, it's not like you're training. It's not like it's hard. And so you're doing it as a rest day and you're like, well, either I would have sat in my van and read all day, or I can go like climb the spire with my friend with a helicopter and it's insane. So you're like, obviously you want to do things like that. But I was kind of like, I don't need the money from it. I don't like need to do this type of work. And so part of starting my foundation was kind of like, well, it's a nice way to funnel all that, you know, sort of funnel the notoriety, the, you know, the, the money, like all that stuff can just go into something that seems slightly more useful.

• 1:10:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Because I like saying yes to those types of opportunities, but it's like, but it feels kind of, you know, it's not like I'm saving up for a yacht, you know, like I don't, I don't need that. And so it's nice to have like a reason to funnel it all into something.

• 1:11:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's, that's awesome. And then I know you just launched your podcast Planet Visionaries as well, right? With the

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:08Jay Shetty?

  Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, yeah, actually we didn't just like, we launched the new season. I've done, I think three or four seasons with them now. Um, but yeah, that's like one of my favorite, you know, where I mean, you know, like interviewing people that are interesting. And yeah, so with Planet Visionaries, I'm interviewing, uh, you know, conservation is like marine biology is like basically people who are doing something useful in the world. And every time I have one of the conversations, I'm just like, oh, you come out of it feeling, uh, you know, inspired. Yeah. Like recharged in a good way. It's like kind of nice.

• 1:11:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And so how, how are you picking? Are those people you know and are friendly with? Or are they people that you're just fascinated by or heard of?

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  No, they're, they're often people working through the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. Because Rolex actually funds a surprising amount of conservation work like that. People don't really know that. But, uh, but so a lot of them, uh, you know, somebody like Sylvia Earl, who's like her deepness. She's a, she's like the Jane Goodall of the ocean. Um, she's been a Rolex testimony since like 1950 or something. I don't know. She's like, I think she's 90. She's still like scuba diving and, you know, creating marine protected areas around the world, trying to like help protect the ocean. And so interviewing people like her, uh, you know, they're just like part of this whole, whole world. And then occasionally I interview folks, um, like I've interviewed a few, uh, like grantee partners from the Hondo Foundation, like some of the organizations that we've supported, uh, doing community soul around the world. Interview through

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  them just to highlight the type of projects that they're doing and, and why, why those types of projects matter. Um, I mean, we're kind of always looking for good guests. If you know, you know, somebody.

• 1:12:36Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Yeah, I was actually because I became friendly with Munia recently from Rolex. And she was telling me about the show and everything that they were trying to do with it. And so I actually, there's, there's a guest I always, I, his name escapes me, but I met him recently and he was fascinating. So I'll have to, I'll have to.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, tell me.

• 1:12:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I thought of him to Munia too. And I was like, oh, I'm going to see Alex. I'll just.

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were doing, um, you know, the first season or two is like Rolex ambassadors and things like that. And then you're kind of like, well, there are only so many. And it's like, and so you started like broadening it out a little bit. We're kind of like, really, anybody who's doing inspiring work, protecting the planet.

• 1:13:08Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Is worth, I mean, and many of the, the guests that I talk to is like, it's interesting because they're doing conservation in a slightly different way, or, you know, a slightly different approach. I don't know. I like to think of the interviews as like kind of mini little TED Talks or something where it's like, what's the little nugget that you're trying to give to the audience? Like, how, like, in what way can they see the world differently as a result of having listened to this? So, I don't know. It's, it's, it's pretty fun, fun interviews. I mean, as you know.

• 1:13:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to. Um, I wanted to ask you, uh, Alex, I wanted to share one more thing, but I'm going to wait for it to come through actually, because I believe we have this. So I'm just waiting for it. If now's a good time. Okay. Thank you so much, bud. Thank you.

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  Wow. This is so pro. I need a teleprompter. I'm like, where's my?

• 1:13:58Jay Shetty?

  So we had to do it for moments like this. So, uh,

• 1:14:04Jay Shetty?

  Alex, we, you know, we were so excited about what you're doing. And, you know, as I said, I'm such a fan from before that it's, it's really a joy to learn. It's, I find it so refreshing when I sit with someone who kind of bursts every myth that you have about the thing, right? Like, I think we all have certain, it's like what you said, the comments, the questions you usually get asked or the kind of hype that's built up around this is how this person breaks through fear and what they do. And then when I sit with you, I'm like, oh, I love how. The way you approach it is flow, is play, is real, is life, is joy, is, you know, and, and that's not what I would know or anticipate if I didn't sit with you deeply and have a really casual conversation with you.

• 1:14:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, you think it's extreme.

• 1:14:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I love that it isn't. Like, you know, it's beautiful when your, when your bubble gets burst and the myth breaks because you get to understand a human on a deeper level. And so we'd reached out to your mentor, Tommy, who'd sent a letter for you.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  Tommy sent a letter?

• 1:15:02Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness. Okay, okay.

• 1:15:05Jay Shetty?

  Would you like to read it? Or would you like me to read it out loud? What would you prefer?

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  Uh, what's better for you? You should read it.

• 1:15:09Jay Shetty?

  It's, it's for you, so I'll read it to you. Yeah, so it says, and all we asked him was for a letter for you because you were coming on the show.

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  Oh, well, I'm already, do I need to leave? I'm like deeply uncomfortable.

• 1:15:21Jay Shetty?

  All right. So, so this is what Tommy said. He said, Dear Alex, when this podcast asked me to write you a heartfelt letter, I had to laugh. Few things make one of the most mentally strong men in the world squirm more than public affection, especially from someone close. But I'm doing it anyway, because people should know the man behind the fearless facade. When I climb with you, mountains shrink to half their size. At first, I thought it was your systems and efficiency. But over the years, I've realized it's something deeper. Your unwavering belief in a positive outcome. More than free soloing, that is your superpower. When you believe things will work out, they almost always do. You've helped me see that

• 1:16:02Jay Shetty?

  so much of what feels heavy or scary in life is mostly imagination. Whenever I come to you with relationship worries or questions about how my kids are growing up, you reframe things until they suddenly feel manageable. And every time, you've been right. You bring humor and lightness to places no one else could. Helping the people around you believe they can not only survive, but thrive. Your bluntness, your unfiltered honesty, might feel harsh coming from someone else, but from you, it builds trust. Everyone close to you understands it comes from a genuine desire to see people reach their potential. I also wish the world understood your generosity. You create abundance in everything you do, and then give it away to friends, to family, to everyone around you.

• 1:16:47Jay Shetty?

  We come from a culture that values obscurity, one that assumes fame dilutes intention. Maybe that's why calling you an entertainer feels strange. But you've shown that you can go big without losing who you are. And if the world is going to be entertained by anyone, I'm glad it's you. Knowing you and calling you a friend has been one of the greatest luck events of my life. I love you, man. Tommy.

• 1:17:12Speaker 01

  That's, that's really nice. I was kind of like, did he write this? And then as he got into it, I was like, oh no, he wrote this.

• 1:17:19Jay Shetty?

  Oh, no, no, we would never do that to you. Yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  I'm like, no, that's incredible. I'm like, that's the nicest thing. That's so nice.

• 1:17:25Jay Shetty?

  It nearly brought tears to my eyes reading it. That's the first time already. I've not seen it before now either because it's, uh, yeah.

• 1:17:31Speaker 01

  I'm, I am shocked and, you know, I'm like, what a nice man. I wonder when he wrote this. He, he actually stopped by our house just the other day. They were driving for family Thanksgiving, so they just stopped for a night, uh, just to camp along the way. I'm like, oh, so.

• 1:17:45Jay Shetty?

  How did you guys meet?

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  Uh, climbing. I mean, well, he was one of my childhood heroes. Like he's one of the most famous climbers in the, in the world. And, uh, even when I was a kid, uh, you know, he was, he was one of the best climbers ever. So I always looked up to him and it's like, oh, one day, you know, I want to be like him. And then, uh, at some point we just met on the road, you know, both like two climbers and I think we were maybe in Squamish, it's a spot in British Columbia. But then, uh, but then I sort of sought him out for a couple of climbing objectives. And then once we started climbing together, it was like game on.

• 1:18:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Well, I loved what he said about you having the ability to reframe things.

• 1:18:16Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:18:17Jay Shetty?

  And would you say that's your superpower?

• 1:18:21Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I, I think that's just normal. I don't know. Yeah. It's like, why build it up as bigger than it needs to be?

• 1:18:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's funny what he said. He does jokingly call me an entertainer because I've done TV shows and things now. So he's always like, oh, you're an entertainer. And I'm like, no, cause you know, I like to at least think of myself as like more of a high performance athlete or whatever. I used to jokingly call myself a high performance clothing model because when you're a professional climber, it basically means you're sponsored by apparel companies.

• 1:18:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  And so I was like, oh, I'm a clothing model, but I send, you know, like I go hard. And, uh, now Tommy's like, oh, you're an entertainer. You're just like a TV personality. But I'm like, no, but send it, you know, as. But the thing is, I don't mind being a TV person, as long as you can actually do the thing you're trying to do, which is like climb hard, climb well, like do things that you're proud of.

• 1:19:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  But, oh, Tommy, what a, what a sweet man.

• 1:19:06Jay Shetty?

  What else stuck out to you? What else was, what else was like, what resonated with you?

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. It's just all.

• 1:19:16Jay Shetty?

  That's a beautiful letter. It's very heartfelt for a man who knew you were gonna run out of the room when you.

• 1:19:21Speaker 01

  I know, that's actually the funny thing. Yeah, but uh, yeah, nothing makes me squirm like public affection. Especially if somebody goes, that's so true. Yeah, no, I'm so, I'm so impressed that he wrote this.

• 1:19:33Jay Shetty?

  Well, you can keep it.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, no, like, I should put this on my wall.

• 1:19:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. Frame it.

• 1:19:40Speaker 01

  Like, what a nice uh.

• 1:19:41Jay Shetty?

  Hold it to it as well.

• 1:19:42Speaker 01

  Do you do that for guests? Or is that just like a thing you do occasionally?

• 1:19:45Jay Shetty?

  Very rare. We don't do it for everyone.

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  For the right type of guests?

• 1:19:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, for the right guests who we feel is at a exciting moment, doing something new, doing something fresh, like.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:19:54Jay Shetty?

  But it, but it feels right.

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  That's such a nice, that's such a nice idea.

• 1:19:57Jay Shetty?

  I, it's one of my, it's one of my favorite things to do because I feel like, like he said, like, I think in our day to day, we love people, but we don't, we don't say it like that. And you don't get many chances in life to reflect. And so I know I love reflecting on people and I've appreciated when people have done it for me and it's, yeah, it's one of my favorite things to do. I have this activity I do with, when I'm doing workshops in companies sometimes where I'll take a group of leaders who, despite achieving great things, their biggest worry is that they're bad parents because they're so busy. And we always have their kids write a note to them and it's stuck under their chair.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  Oh, that's like.

• 1:20:32Jay Shetty?

  And it's really special because.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  That seems like waterworks and.

• 1:20:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and you also get to see what kids actually value versus what you think they value. So you're thinking like, oh, when I bought them that big gift or when I took them on that fancy vacation, it's like that kid just remembered you've read a story to them before they went to bed last night. Like, that was the win. Uh, the win wasn't some, you know, grand gesture or some big event in their life. It was this tiny moment where you're actually present. So, um, but, but Alex, oh, go on, you're gonna say something.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  I'm just like, oh, I'm so touched. It's funny. I mean, you know, I just read Think Like a Mug.

• 1:21:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:06Speaker 01

  And someone, one of my friends is just asking me like, oh, what are your takeaways? Like, what do you feel like you gained from it? I was like, oh, there's a lot, you know, around like kindness, compassion, things like, you know, caring service, like all these types of like, and I was like, you know, I think I have a lot of room for improvement, all of those things, like, you know, because there's a lot in the book that I'm kind of like, yeah, no, this is fine. I got that. And then, you know, basically the whole second half of the book, I'm kind of like, hmm, like, that's, that's not quite my sweet spot. And we're like, yeah, like, there's, there's something to be learned there. It was like, oh, it's, yeah, just give something to think about. Yeah. Like, sweet Tommy.

• 1:21:36Jay Shetty?

  Sweet Tommy, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Alex, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence, maximum. And so Alex Honnold, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  I'll just go for it. Just try. That's my advice.

• 1:21:56Jay Shetty?

  It's worked for you?

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Better. I mean, this is more than one sentence.

• 1:22:01Jay Shetty?

  Please, carry on.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  But, uh, but yeah, I mean, it's better to try something and fail than to not try it.

• 1:22:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Does, second question, does failure even, do you even ever think about failure?

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  Well, if failure means death, and yeah, you think about it a lot. No, uh,

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  I don't know. Can I give more than one sentence?

• 1:22:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, go, go, go.

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, because it's interesting because in climbing, failure, like basically as a climber, you fail all the time, nonstop. Like as a climber, you basically try projects and you fail on them over and over and over until the one time you succeed. And then as soon as you succeed, you move on to the next thing. And so, uh, like yesterday, I failed on a project that I've been working on, on and off for like five or six years or something. I've been trying it forever. It's like my life project. And, uh, and I almost did it yesterday. And hopefully I'll do it on Sunday, which is the next day I get to go back there. But basically I will have spent years, literally years failing on something. And then I'll do it once, which will represent about, you know, 13 minutes of high performance activity where I like try really hard. It might even be less than that. I'm not sure how long it takes to climb, but it's like in the minutes. And then after, you know, years of failure, I'll have six minutes of success and then I'll move on to

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  the next thing. It's like, so as a climber, it's like, you don't really define it as success and failure because you literally, you spend all your time failing.

• 1:23:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Again, the exposure therapy is.

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like you're just always failing. But that's the whole point. The whole point is to go out and try things that are hard for you. So by that definition, you're not failing, you're just going climbing. Like climbing is failing.

• 1:23:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Question number three, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  Sort of say, I mean, maybe like the the public acclaim to some extent. I think, you know, when you're alone in your van, kind of like, I just wanna like be known, basically, so you can get laid. You're gonna like, oh, I just wanna meet somebody, whatever. And then, once you actually have some of that, you're like, I don't really need all that.

• 1:23:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. How long did you spend in that van?

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  Um, I think I lived in the van twelve years.

• 1:23:51Jay Shetty?

  Twelve years?

• 1:23:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, two different vans. And yeah, I mean, I had some girlfriends on and off and various things. And yeah, but basically, lived in the van from mid twenty to thirty. Yeah, maybe a little more than that.

• 1:24:01Jay Shetty?

  Were you happy then?

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, it's great. But I just knew that I wouldn't want to do that my whole life.

• 1:24:05Jay Shetty?

  What was it that made you happy then, but knew it wasn't what you wanted?

• 1:24:09Speaker 01

  Oh, living in a van is amazing when all you're trying to do is climb at your at your limit. But barring even the obvious, like, you'll lose motivation. You just don't care. You know, after ten or twenty years of doing something nonstop, full tilt, you're like, you know, do I need to do another twenty years of that? And I knew that one day I'd one family and, you know, like, my aspiration is to die at eighty with grandkids around me. And it's hard to do that if you live alone in a van.

• 1:24:33Jay Shetty?

  Is that is that really the dream?

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I think so. That's the way some of my grandparents died. And I'm like, that's a great way to go.

• 1:24:39Jay Shetty?

  You would that make you feel content? Like, if you were looking back on your life at eighty, what do you think would stand out to you?

• 1:24:47Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know. My grandma, one of my last grandma died at ninety five, I think, uh, you know, surrounded by family. I'm kind of like, that's a good way to go. Like, I would be delighted to have that have that play on.

• 1:24:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  I named my daughter after my beloved grandmother.

• 1:25:03Jay Shetty?

  Oh, really?

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and really, like, is there anything better? You know, it's like when you when you're dying of old age, surrounded by family, and you had a good enough relationship with them that they're naming their children after you, like, great success. Call it good.

• 1:25:16Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Alex, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wish I did?

• 1:25:22Speaker 01

  No, I don't know, but I have all kinds of questions for you, but we can chat after.

• 1:25:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Alex, it's been such a joy getting to know you. I feel like I totally got such an education in what it really means to be fearless in a way that I didn't expect. And those are my favorite types of conversations where I'm pleasantly surprised, blown away, inspired, and excited to see what you do on the 23rd of Jan. And even though you won't care, I'll be rooting for you and cheering for you and watching. But thank you so much, and I hope we can stay in touch.

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I appreciate that. That was total pleasure.

• 1:25:53Jay Shetty?

  Thanks, Alex. Appreciate it. That was awesome, man. Thank you so much.

• 1:25:56Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:25:57Jay Shetty?

  If you love this podcast, you'll love my episode with Lewis Hamilton. Lewis and I talk about why you should stop chasing society's definition of success and how to be more intentional with your goals. You don't want to miss it.

• 1:26:12Speaker 03

  Like, it's not about being perfect. It's about just every day, one step at a time, trying to be better, trying to do more. I'm learning a lot about myself. I have to break myself down in order to be able to be better.