KHC 157 - Alexi Pappas

Alexi Pappas - Greek-American runner, filmmaker, actor, and writer. Pappas was an NCAA All-American athlete at both Dartmouth College and the University of Oregon. She represented Greece at the 2016 Summer Olympics, setting the national record for 10k. Join us for a conversation about Alexi’s first hunt and her perspective on hunting and a new appreciation for the outdoors. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Alexi: https://www.instagram.com/alexipappas/ Mentor Buffet Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Mentor_Buffet Mentor Buffet Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1O68PH0r2JXIL6UW1JMGEo Timestamps: 00:00:00 Love for the State of Oregon 00:06:55 Alexi’s First Time Shooting a Rifle 00:22:20 Being Connected to Nature & the Elements 00:27:29 Hunting for the First Time, Quails, & Observing the Buck 00:37:56 Developed Instinct and Being Immersed as a Hunter 00:44:08 Sight Acquisition & Going Through the Shot Process Without Ammo 00:49:59 The Truth is Good if You Keep Going 00:53:44 Alexi’s Perspective of Cam as a Hunter & Mentor 01:03:59 Cam’s Values & Experiencing Failures that Led to Success in Alexi’s Hunt 01:15:56 Confidence in Certainty, “Rascal Mentality”, and New Traditions 01:24:57 Balance and Harmony in Hunting 01:32:25 F#*k, Marry, Kill: Film, Writing and Running 01:36:56 Alexi’s Kill Tony Moment is 01:39:26 Knowing Yourself at Your Core Level 01:43:29 Hate Comments from Cam’s Reel of Alexi’s Buck 01:52:51 Final Thoughts

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Speaker 00

  I can hear it just fine.

• 0:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I usually talk pretty close to this like like this.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Do you really?

• 0:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 0:21Speaker 00

  That's a style choice.

• 0:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  Wow, you really have the the Gucci theme is that?

• 0:28Cameron Hanes?

  We're branded, baby.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you're like Gucci.

• 0:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 0:31Speaker 00

  That's how we knew we were gonna be friends. Let's start this conversation by talking about Gucci.

• 0:36Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 0:36Speaker 00

  We hope that Gucci hears this message and decides to put Cam Hanes and Alexi Pappas in an ad together. It would really shake up the system for Gucci and bring them into the present in a way that they haven't been in the present before.

• 0:51Cameron Hanes?

  It would be a hit.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  We should be in a Gucci ad, that would be fun.

• 0:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that would be fun. I think I'm sure they're gonna jump on this for sure.

• 1:02Speaker 00

  For sure, they're gonna see it. Wait, but what is your connection to Gucci? Cause you know mine. And I don't mean connection.

• 1:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11Speaker 00

  What's your emotional tie to Gucci?

• 1:16Speaker 00

  You can say none, you could say I just like bougie.

• 1:19Cameron Hanes?

  No, I went, so I went and ran the Two Bears 5K.

• 1:22Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 1:23Cameron Hanes?

  And at the Rose Bowl with Burt and Tom Segura.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:28Cameron Hanes?

  And so I thought since I'm running a race in LA, I should be wearing Gucci. So I went to the Gucci store in Rodeo and I bought like three things that were $4,000. And I wore it in the race.

• 1:41Speaker 00

  That's very stylish.

• 1:43Cameron Hanes?

  That's it.

• 1:44Speaker 00

  And then you and then you were like, you know what? I'm never gonna actually spend this money and I'm gonna make my branding.

• 1:51Cameron Hanes?

  Gucci themed.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  I like it. I think it's so rad.

• 1:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, thanks. Yeah, it was fun though. I mean, it's people like it. The shorts are, they sold out in like one second.

• 2:03Speaker 00

  And if you reprint, please send it all to me.

• 2:06Cameron Hanes?

  Definitely.

• 2:07Speaker 00

  You know, I have a strong, I have a strong tie.

• 2:10Cameron Hanes?

  I'm gonna get you hooked up. This is the Keep Hammering Collective with Ms. Alexi Pappas. How are you?

• 2:18Speaker 00

  I'm great. I just had some homemade chili from, with your family and it had elk in it.

• 2:26Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:27Speaker 00

  And it was so good. And I'm in my favorite place in the world.

• 2:30Cameron Hanes?

  Eugene, Oregon.

• 2:31Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 2:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:33Speaker 00

  I'm so happy.

• 2:34Cameron Hanes?

  Why do you love Oregon?

• 2:35Speaker 00

  I love work. Well, I love Oregon. I feel most myself in Oregon and I feel like I grew up here, even though I didn't. I went to school as a fifth year at Oregon and then stayed to train for the Olympics. So I think I grew up as an athlete here.

• 2:51Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:51Speaker 00

  And I just, I don't know, I love it. You know, yourselves just love places and, and things. And I love the moss. I love the people. I love the food. I love the moss.

• 3:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, we saw some like fluorescent green moss.

• 3:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yesterday.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, so yesterday we were

• 3:11Cameron Hanes?

  Really pops.

• 3:12Speaker 00

  Chasing, we were on an adventure.

• 3:15Cameron Hanes?

  What? We were?

• 3:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:17Cameron Hanes?

  Where was it?

• 3:18Speaker 00

  Oh, well, we were in the woods and we saw lots of creatures. And that was one of my favorite parts about being in Powers.

• 3:30Cameron Hanes?

  Right. So Oregon is like the coming of age story for Alexi.

• 3:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:36Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, you said you grew up here, so it's

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:39Speaker 00

  It's a place also that I heard from fellow athletes that you want to leave before you outgrow it. And I think that's specifically a runner athlete story about Eugene. Because I do know some people stayed so long and I don't think it was the place, it was their, they stayed in this competitive running environment too long. And then they started to have this like, Challenged relationship with the place and I left before I was ready to leave. And so I'm always trying to get back.

• 4:10Cameron Hanes?

  Right, because you left like just relocating and then sponsor changes and a lot was going on. And in coordination with your leave, so it made it probably rougher, but makes coming back better.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's the best. You come back and the place feels as it should.

• 4:28Cameron Hanes?

  And fall here in Oregon is so beautiful and the, and the Leuma Valley and where we were down powers towards the coast. It's just the, the colors and the leaves and just everything about it, just the clouds kind of sticking to the Douglas fir up high on the mountains and it was, uh, it was just, it was beautiful, a beautiful time of year, I thought. For you to come here and come back and um, this adventure you speak of. That sounds interesting.

• 5:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:03Cameron Hanes?

  Tell me about it.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  Well, um, let's see, we've, I mean, we went on.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  Well, let's see, I um, have learned, but I feel like I went to like grad school overnight with you in a way. Because I've grown up, you know, I think especially as like a Greek person, I grew up, you know, my dad had made whole roast chickens growing up or you make a big roast or you have, you know, Greek Easter is like, there's a whole lamb on a spit. And I've, um, I've been in environments where I'm more aware of like, you know, where food comes from and everything, but to be able to peer into your world and learn was so cool, uh, because you're so thoughtful and you're a very good coach.

• 6:00Speaker 00

  So our adventure began with doing drills and learning like a skill that I've never done before, which was we shot at targets.

• 6:09Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, we shot?

• 6:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, we shot.

• 6:13Speaker 00

  I had targets and it was intimidating because it's not, you know, I haven't, my sport is running, so I don't have a lot of hand-eye coordination as part of my expertise.

• 6:27Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you fooled me because it looked like it translated very well. And you had never shot a rifle. I don't, I think it was a shotgun you shot because you said you just pointed it one time and it kicked really hard. So it sounded like a shotgun.

• 6:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know. It was like a

• 6:42Cameron Hanes?

  But years ago, right?

• 6:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was, and it was very just like, it just, yeah, I don't, it was like one time, one random shot.

• 6:53Cameron Hanes?

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• 7:34Cameron Hanes?

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• 8:14Cameron Hanes?

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• 8:27Cameron Hanes?

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• 9:12Cameron Hanes?

  Hunger. Right now, you can get 20% off your purchase, just go to mountainops.com and use code CAM at checkout. This season, don't settle for sluggish. Ignite the hunt.

• 9:25Cameron Hanes?

  So, God, what day was that? So this is Friday. So Wednesday, you landed. I picked you up at the Eugene Airport, our favorite city. And we drove for two and a half, three hours, something like that. We got to Powers, Oregon, just not too long before dark. It gets dark, it gets dark very early at this time of year, obviously, like five something. And we met my buddy Kevin Akers, and we went to Joe's house. And Joe is like a shooting savant. He reloads ammo, he builds guns, he knows inside and out about firearms. And Kevin is

• 10:06Cameron Hanes?

  very well-versed in firearms also. So we used his SIG 65 Creedmoor, which is what you were shooting. And you had never shot a rifle. Again, it was just the shotgun the one time. And so we had to start at ground zero on, on shooting rifles. And yeah, tell me about that process.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  Well, I think the first obstacle was, uh, took me back to my childhood where my father gave me my brother's right-handed glove before he realized I was left-handed, before I knew how to write.

• 10:41Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  And so I'm a right-handed athlete. I throw baseball with my right hand, but I'm a left-handed writer.

• 10:49Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 10:50Speaker 00

  And what was challenging at first was to just simply figure out which eye and which hand was going to be oriented with the target and with the gun. And I didn't know what to do because my left eye is the one I would opt for to see and my right arm is the one I would opt for to have handle like athletic stuff.

• 11:12Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  And we decided to go with my right because the comfort in like that felt stronger than my eye for some reason.

• 11:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. It was, that was hard because you had a hard time closing your left eye. But to shoot right-handed, you need to look through the scope with your right eye.

• 11:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:32Cameron Hanes?

  If you can't close your left eye and it felt like that was maybe your dominant eye, um, yeah, we had a challenge. So I had to hold your eye closed essentially and then you could shoot. But it wasn't just holding your eye closed because if I was just hovering over your eyelid, I could feel you trying to blink it.

• 11:50Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:51Cameron Hanes?

  I had to push on it.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:53Cameron Hanes?

  And then you're trying to learn this brand-new skill.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:57Cameron Hanes?

  Fire, uh, you know, a high-powered rifle essentially. Doing something you've never done. It's going to kick. Uh, you're trying to hit, you know, we had the target out there a hundred yards, had a little orange dot on it. There's a lot going on for a brand-new student.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  Yes, and that's, that's how we became closer friends because you had to really cover my left eye. So it was really like, it was very, it was, it was great team, teamwork.

• 12:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  Um, and then I think what I learned was You know, I I told you, but I felt a similar thing when I learned how to throw a proper baseball for the throwing the first pitch at the Giants game when I had that chance. Um, because I'd never thrown like a baseball before. And I remember you have to learn all these individual, um, almost like a choreography.

• 12:44Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  And then you want to internalize it enough for it to um, be smooth and be like within your muscle memory and your brain memory. And so I remember the next part was learning the choreography of loading and also like situating and um, focusing and having the, I learned that the target needs to be hovering. I mean, as close to where you want it to go, um, communicating, right?

• 13:17Cameron Hanes?

  The, the, we're talking about the crosshairs, they're going to float a little bit. So controlling that float, we don't want the float going past the target, around, coming back, big, big loops, right? As long as that float is pretty much on the orange on that, you know, when we're doing that, that float is minimal. If it's a timing thing where you're just trying to drive by, shoot it as you go by, that's not going to work, right?

• 13:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:43Cameron Hanes?

  So it's, it's navigating that float, but still, even, even aside from that, it's just, it's a bolt action rifle. So you're putting the shell in, learning what that takes, you got the safety. You got the scope, we're zoomed in or zoomed out, you know, 15 power down to whatever. Um, and then getting ready. And then also it's a two-stage trigger. So that means you pull halfway, there's a little slack in it, and then you shoot.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 14:11Cameron Hanes?

  And I didn't know, somebody who's never shot, I was just like, you never know how it's going to go. Because people can be very intimidated by firearms, right? It's a. You don't know how people are going to react, but you were incredible. I mean, it was amazing. I shot one time just to see where the scope was. You know, Kevin said it was on and, you know, I hit like just probably 11 o'clock, just barely off the orange. And I'm like, okay. Then you shot and you hit just a little bit further off the orange, but still same 11 o'clock orientation. I'm like, well, that's a great first shot. And then all your, then the rest of the shots were closer and closer and getting better.

• 14:54Cameron Hanes?

  And just tell me about that, how that worked, that process. It's so what I was gonna, oh, that's what I was gonna say. You're very process oriented. So you have like this, this chain of events that are going to happen and you're, you follow them very well, very rigid, very, you know, it's like thinking about everything very deliberately. And it was, it was beautiful, but explain that.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think there's like a, this is where I kept saying, like, I think there's something about either growing up as an athlete or like being an athlete where if, if matched with like sports or, or movements, because it doesn't, it's not just sport. It's like movement, body coordination that feel, um, I don't know what I'm trying to say. I guess really what it was, was like, familiarizing myself enough with the new information so that I could integrate it in with the, with the old me who knows how to move and execute on movement. That's what I do.

• 16:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 16:01Speaker 00

  Right? That's what athletes do. And so, once I intellectually understood all the instruction and I had it memorized in my head, then I needed to like, put it into play in my body so that I could do it as me, which it seems like this is a, um, do you call it a sport? Cause I keep calling it.

• 16:21Cameron Hanes?

  I don't call hunting a sport personally. A lot of people do.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  Yours is it's like a way of life.

• 16:25Cameron Hanes?

  It's a lifestyle.

• 16:26Speaker 00

  Okay, it's a lifestyle. Well, maybe it's a skill. Cause I need to say like, I need to put the skill into play.

• 16:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I mean. Right. It's a, it's a skill. It's a learned skill.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. So the skill, like I understood the steps. You were so helpful for me to understand what the goal of each step was. So that's actually, this is a really interesting conversation about people, like, everyone needs to understand whenever they're doing anything, what the goal is so that they can make it their own. Even in running training, like if a coach gives me a workout and they're not there to proctor it, like it's a remote coach or something, the most important thing for me to know is what the most important thing of the workout is. So it could be this workout is speed work. So I want you to go as fast as you can until you can't go that pace anymore. Another workout it might be, we need to go the distance, no matter what the pace is.

• 17:18Speaker 00

  And for me to know that was really important because then when I was in any step of like, you know, situating the gun or finding the target, I knew what the boundaries were and what the goal was so that then I could make it my own.

• 17:30Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:31Speaker 00

  And so in the, in the real moment, I think it was, it was fun. I mean, it was fun to find the target and then have a moment where it was hovering in enough, enough, with enough consistency that I could then do the next step.

• 17:50Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  And yeah, it's kind of like you're going on a little, you're doing a little mission every time you do it. Cause every step, there's a moment where you're ready enough to go to the next step.

• 18:03Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  That's sort of what it is.

• 18:04Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 18:05Speaker 00

  And when you're ready to go to the next-

• 18:06Cameron Hanes?

  You can't skip steps.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  No, you can't skip a step. And when you know, you should know with certainty that you're ready to go to the next step.

• 18:14Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:15Speaker 00

  And I think that was a good feeling for me to know I had almost completed the previous step. Does that make sense?

• 18:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:25Speaker 00

  And then shooting, pulling the trigger, for some reason, I don't know what athletic memory of mine it is, but it feels very natural to do a two-part trigger, even though I've never done it.

• 18:36Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:37Speaker 00

  Something is, something feels, like I don't know what other sports that I could compare it to, but I played a lot of sports, but there's some movement where that feels intuitively correct. It feels correct that you're not just like yanking on the thing.

• 18:50Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 18:50Speaker 00

  I don't know if it's like when you shoot a basketball, there's like, I don't really-

• 18:53Cameron Hanes?

  Follow through or-

• 18:54Speaker 00

  I don't know what it is. There's just something about it feels very correct. So none of it, when you're like, remember those two parts? I was like, I don't even know if I would ever do it without two parts. I guess if you told me.

• 19:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, but I think that, I think it really helped by having that because you could take that slack out of the first part. And you had initiated the pole essentially, but it wasn't going to go off yet, as long as you went slow enough. And then you, and I know in the moment of truth on the, once we get to the climax of the story, I was saying, feel that trigger. Take the slack out, feel that. And that made you, in practice, you were very, very accurate. We got to where, which this is crazy, but after a handful of shots, we were feeling pretty confident and we said, hey, let's shoot at 300.

• 19:46Cameron Hanes?

  That played out there at 300. And you shot twice at 300 and hit it. First time, I mean, this is after a handful of shots. So that, that is very rare, that type of success, that type of accuracy and that type of control on a new skill. But I was amazed at how fast you picked that up.

• 20:08Speaker 00

  Thank you. Can I ask you, how does somebody miss though? If there's like, what goes wrong? Because there's a target.

• 20:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a, there's a moment of anticipation where they know what the goal is, as you said. You always, the goal is to hit the plate. Okay. They skip the steps and rush it. So either the float wasn't small enough, as you said, it was maybe going off the steel of the plate. Or they punched that trigger, meaning they blow through. If two-stager, that's very hard for people. People get,

• 20:49Cameron Hanes?

  say like an archery, people rush the shot because they know how it works. They know what they want. They want to be holding the antlers of the bull or the buck there they kill. So. They know they can't hold the arrows until they shoot. They have to get rid of that arrow as soon as they get, they want to get rid of that arrow as soon as possible. So a lot of, a lot of people pull back and shoot. And before they even really aim or do all the steps they're supposed to, the arrow's on the way because they know if the arrow's on the way, they're sooner to holding those arrows. But there's a million steps in between there they skipped.

• 21:25Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 21:25Cameron Hanes?

  So you, as I said, you being so process oriented, putting value on each step made that 300 yard shot possible. People learning a new skill don't understand the value of each step. But because how your brain works and how you are, maybe as an athlete or maybe just a person, maybe we can take athletics out of this. How your brain processes, system, um, you know, integration, I don't know, or just achieving a goal, you just, you just put very high value on every step. Like each step isn't more valuable than the next. They're all the same.

• 22:08Speaker 00

  Right. Yeah. It's like, um, it's like how, yeah, it's, I was gonna compare it to like a board game, but I'm not gonna do that. Um, where I'm like, you got to. Um, but I think it's, um, like, it's kind of that mentality of like be where your feet are, which is how I really try to live my life. It's very hard to do that.

• 22:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 22:33Speaker 00

  Because be where your feet are means, and I learned that from a friend of mine. It means me be present. Um, and it's, it's not only, the benefit is not only that you're someone who's present, it's that you do what you're meant to be doing well. Or, or, right?

• 22:50Cameron Hanes?

  At a high level.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  At a high level because you can only, you can do it best when you're there.

• 22:54Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 22:54Speaker 00

  And so I think what I'm aware of is like blocking out the past and the future gives you the best chance at success in whatever you're doing and the most enjoyment.

• 23:04Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you know, that's, that's rare.

• 23:06Speaker 00

  But, but I don't know why, if somebody learned that.

• 23:08Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know why it's rare. I'm just saying it's rare.

• 23:10Speaker 00

  But somebody could change their mind right now. Someone could hear this and say, all right. I want to be happy. I want to have the most gratitude and I want to perform the best. And this is how I do it. So now I'm going to abandon and I'm going to have the discipline in any moment to remind myself that that I had a previous conversation with myself that this is the best way to be. And then I'm my meditation in life is reminding myself to be here now. The why is something you talk about else time, not in the moment. And then in the moment, it's about the quick reminder that this is the best thing to to do.

• 23:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's that sounds very logical.

• 23:46Speaker 00

  But people could change right now. That's what I'm saying. They could just be like, alright, that's what I'm doing from now on. And that's how I've lived my whole life is I'll learn something and then I'll change my entire way of functioning moving forward. I didn't know it before.

• 23:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:58Speaker 00

  And I think there were things I learned yesterday about myself that I'll take with me that I didn't know before too. And so that's that's kind of life, I think.

• 24:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean, it's people know what they're supposed to do.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  Do you think so?

• 24:13Cameron Hanes?

  It's just doing, yeah, because you could, there's all sorts of self-help, self-help books that tell you exactly how you're supposed to act and react and and and interpret things. And it's just hard to be as humans are complicated. And you you're able to just hyper focus on things and and yeah, it should be obvious, it should be easy. It's not very easy. You're very good.

• 24:40Speaker 00

  I don't know. Yeah, I think I think I was like, we could get into human psychology about it all.

• 24:44Cameron Hanes?

  Well, what, okay, so to take a step back, what I said, or when we're talking about this adventure. Ketone IQ is now backed by research from KU Louven and team of Visma. Ketone IQ is showing powerful results in helping your body bounce back quicker and push harder, especially in tough, low oxygen conditions. Here's what the science says. Number one, ketone support EPO production. Yes, you heard that right. EPO, that's a hormone that boosts red blood cell count and helps deliver more oxygen to your muscles. Two, they improve blood flow and vasodilation, getting oxygen and nutrients where you need them faster.

• 25:25Cameron Hanes?

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• 26:08Cameron Hanes?

  artificial colors, or other dodgy ingredients to derail your low carb lifestyle. That's why Element is my go-to electrolyte drink and trusted by many of the world's leading health experts and athletes, including Team USA Weightlifting, coaches, health practitioners, and teams across professional collegiate and high school sports leagues. You're also guaranteed to find an Element flavor you love. Try fan favorite citrus salt or raspberry salt, get spicy with mango chili, or mix chocolate salt into your morning coffee for a mean mocha. Element is offering listeners of the podcast a free Element sample pack with any

• 26:44Cameron Hanes?

  purchase at www.drinklmnt.com/cam. Also try new Element sparkling, a bold 16 ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. Um, I said, you're going to be exposed to a whole new world you didn't know existed. Was that accurate or no?

• 27:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was 100% accurate.

• 27:07Cameron Hanes?

  So, so tell me about this world. What, what did you, tell me about the world you were exposed to?

• 27:13Speaker 00

  Well, I had to wake up really early, which you have to for marathons and stuff. But, um, but the idea that waking up early wasn't, um, it was based on orienting to nature was cool and different and that everything we did during the course of the day had to do with adapting and understanding nature. That was very new world for me. Cause usually, um, you know, with running and with a lot of things in life, maybe you just are going to, um, going anywhere every day. You're trying to kind of. Do what you're trying to do despite nature. That's what it is to live for most people, most of the time.

• 27:55Cameron Hanes?

  Nature is usually an obstacle.

• 27:57Speaker 00

  Yes, and in this, it can be an obstacle, but it's something you have to participate with. So you need to work with nature and you need to understand it and you need to accept it. You can't reject it because the nature is the truth.

• 28:10Cameron Hanes?

  Give me an example of of how you accept nature and work with it.

• 28:15Speaker 00

  Well, I noticed that you had a tool that showed you which way the wind was blowing. And when the wind was blowing toward us and if we were following an animal that was upstream from the wind, then that meant that they wouldn't smell us because the wind would be blowing our scent away. But if the wind was blowing our scent toward an animal, then they would definitely smell us. And so to understand that was an important tool.

• 28:46Cameron Hanes?

  Very important.

• 28:47Speaker 00

  There's others, there's rain, there was so many, there's, um, yeah, like wind, there's, there were certain factors, right? I could tell you everything I learned, but everyone would learn everything. Yeah, yeah, and, and I think that to acknowledge nature in that way made me feel more connected to nature because I don't usually pay attention to all of those things. And we really had to pay attention. Every step had to be quiet. Oh, I was also, look, I'm talking so much.

• 29:20Cameron Hanes?

  I love it.

• 29:20Speaker 00

  We had to not talk. No, I know, but we had to not talk. We talked in the car. We didn't talk when we were outside because we were trying to be quiet and notice and move and be observant and not be heard. And I think to be quiet in nature is something I'm not used to. So that was a different world. I learned about. Like, the, honestly, so many things I learned about the seasons and the sustainability of it, the humanity of it. I learned how animals live in the wild versus in captivity. I learned that where you, I thought it was like, I think I get nervous to say it because it's almost like I'm saying that if you do it right,

• 30:06Speaker 00

  the animal doesn't suffer, and I don't know that.

• 30:09Cameron Hanes?

  No, that's true. If you do it right, as I said, humans are the only thing that has, that is merciful and has compassion in the wild. The wild is brutal. There is no compassion in the wild. The animals do not care if another animal suffers. They're trying to kill each other. In fact, the buck, the buck that you killed had big jab marks. It had a broken rib, which could have been from a fight because it had many puncture wounds in it from another buck.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  And there were two bears.

• 30:39Cameron Hanes?

  There's two bears right there also. It's, it's, I mean, it's, it's called the wild for a reason. And so when man enters in the equation, and we're part of the equation, man has always hunted. People say, you know, they question whether hunting is necessary, or whether, why man would interfere. Man has always hunted, so we've always been part of this equation. And we're the only part of the equation that has that compassion I spoke of. So when you make a perfect shot, and you kill the animal with, with a perfect merciful shot, there is no suffering. And the buck you killed did not suffer. So that's, that's the ideal circumstance.

• 31:23Cameron Hanes?

  Do you always make a perfect shot? Does every, is everything

• 31:28Cameron Hanes?

  just exactly as designed? No, because it's hunting, and it's, it can be imperfect at times. Life and death are both imperfect, and death can be brutal. It can be

• 31:42Cameron Hanes?

  elongated, or it can be quick. If we do it right, it was quick. Your buck was dead in, almost immediately. No suffering. So that's, that's always the goal. Does that always happen? No.

• 31:57Cameron Hanes?

  I'm thank God it did with you because I I wanted it to be a positive experience. But tell me about, okay, so first things first, we had to make sure you were proficient with the rifle. That and you were very accurate and what I wanted to do, I and I told you, I said, I don't want, we're not going to force any shot. If you're not comfortable with the shot, we're not going to take it. We're not going to take a long shot. We're not going to take a shot at a moving animal. It's going to be a shot that you've proven you can deliver one lethal bullet. And we just need to replicate that in the wild. And once we went into the field, then it was a matter of let's find this animal. Tell me about it.

• 32:42Speaker 00

  It was a very windy day.

• 32:44Cameron Hanes?

  Is that good?

• 32:46Speaker 00

  No, it's bad because the animals don't like the wind, so they're hiding from it.

• 32:52Cameron Hanes?

  Why wouldn't they like the wind?

• 32:54Speaker 00

  Because their senses are disrupted and their equilibrium is thrown off, so they can't understand that there's danger nearby. And it messes their hair up, just like me.

• 33:05Cameron Hanes?

  They're very concerned about that.

• 33:07Speaker 00

  So they want to get out of the wind because it confuses them. And it was so windy. It was very windy. There wasn't rain. There wasn't sun. It was just overcast and moody. And we did a lot of walking, which was another thing that was new for me was just to walk all day. And I was still a little sleepy from the marathon I had run a few days earlier and the ultra marathon I had run a few days before. So I was like, okay, I can do this. And I learned that if you keep moving, you're less tired. That was kind of a nice feeling. Like every time we're in the car, I was like, I think I'm going to fall asleep. And then every time we go out of the car, I was like, all right, this is what I do.

• 33:47Speaker 00

  So it was it was bizarre weather, I think. And then we just kept moving to different places. And I learned how to use binoculars, which was also another skill that I appreciate having. Because I never knew really, it's just an intimidating tool that seems like a prop if you're not using them in earnest. And so I felt like I was learning these very specific skills. So many skills, actually, that I don't have.

• 34:18Speaker 00

  And binoculars were one of them. And so I would practice, I mean, obviously I'm looking for animals, but I would just practice focusing on something really, really far away and seeing how quickly I could get to it with my binoculars. And that was very hard at first, but I started getting good at it. So I had my own little game going on.

• 34:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 00

  And, and, um, we had these amazing breakfast sandwiches that Ron and his family made and like, I'm such a road trip girl and like just sipping coffee and like eating breakfast sandwiches in the car and like listening to, uh, you're so vain.

• 34:51Cameron Hanes?

  Carly Simon.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  You probably sing to some, it was so great. It was like so happy and nature and like moss. And then the weather started to turn and it was raining a little bit. And then

• 35:03Cameron Hanes?

  Was that good?

• 35:04Speaker 00

  Yes, the rain is good.

• 35:07Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  Uh, the rain is good because the, the large, the large raindrops form in the woods because they bounce off the, they accumulate in the trees. And so the animals prefer to be out in the open where the raindrops are less intense. So we got excited and we started just sort of moving to different areas. And then we did see, um, it was, um, Kevin saw a buck when we were driving.

• 35:36Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 35:37Speaker 00

  And we got out of the car and it, it was tricky because it was in the woods and there was a doe. And then it ran off. And then one of my favorite parts of the day. We just walked through like the most lush woods of Oregon for like an hour, tracking an animal. But like, as far as I was concerned, I was just like a kid following you and being super quiet. Like as far as I was concerned, I was playing hide and go seek in reverse or whatever. No, seek. What is it called when you find the people? Hide and go seek, but I'm in a group. There's a game.

• 36:18Cameron Hanes?

  It's called try to kill a buck game.

• 36:20Speaker 00

  Okay. In your language. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, so I was, so I was just so happy. And then I was just trying to be quiet. And like, I was trying to move over every leaf and under every stick, like in a more graceful way. So there's a lot, a lot of body awareness.

• 36:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. It's like, it's like yoga. Like it's so controlled.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is. And, and I noticed how much you pay attention to everything. And I think I learned a lot just by being around you, how attentive a human can be. Right? Because people are so zoned out. Like, I was just in New York City. Everyone is like on their phones or like they're walking down the street like no one else exists. Like, it's the total opposite. And so to be in the present with someone who is so dialed with exactly what's going on around him was like, it was like watching, um, um, like, yeah, like, I don't know, it felt artistic almost.

• 37:18Speaker 00

  And then I, you know, we, what was cool was you followed tracks. You paid attention to where the river was and what that meant for like, can this buck cross this river? Did he cross this river? Where is the wind? You were kicking over mushrooms at one point and I thought that you were doing it to re, so we could retrace our tracks, but you were actually just trying to figure out if we, there were any non-poisonous mushrooms in the woods.

• 37:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you, you thought it could have been breadcrumbs, Hansel and Gretel style.

• 37:48Speaker 00

  That's what I thought. I was like, oh, he's so smart. Because if we get lost, we'll just retrace the kicked over mushrooms.

• 37:53Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you're wrong. I'm not smart. But, uh, hey, what about, so tell me about, didn't we have a group of,

• 38:01Cameron Hanes?

  some like called a covey of quail?

• 38:03Speaker 00

  Oh, yes, the quail. Okay, so we're in the woods. And, okay, so imagine this, you're in the woods. And we're crouched down now, because for some reason, I never could ask you why we were doing anything when we were doing it. But we were, we were stable, like crouched down. And you did the wind thing where you checked the wind. And then through the trees, there was a, I would call it a marching band of quails. And they were toot tootin' along and doody doo dot dot. And, um, they didn't know we were there.

• 38:37Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 38:37Speaker 00

  So that was a cool thing because we got to witness nature without nature noticing us.

• 38:44Speaker 00

  And that was just a cool experience to have because usually I'm like prancing through the woods, like running and I'm disrupting things. Birds are flying away.

• 38:55Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 38:56Speaker 00

  But these quails like might as well marched over your arm because they didn't really notice you.

• 39:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. So we were, we were just kind of observing and waiting. That buck was pushing a doe. The buck that Kevin saw was a nice, big, heavy three by three and I, I wanted to get him for sure. So we circled around, uh, the direction they went through, very thick timber there. And, uh, I didn't know if we had got ahead of them or not. And it turns out they had crossed, but that was the tracks that we followed. But in that moment, I just wanted to observe and sit and listen and wait and see if that buck might, you know, obviously that doe was hot, which means she's in heat and, uh, see if he'd push her by us and then we could get a shot, but that didn't happen. But that was part of that whole

• 39:42Cameron Hanes?

  process, that hour long, that excursion we did. And it's just basically it's learning, observing, uh, reacting to what you, what you witness and trying to anticipate what the animal might, might be doing or thinking. And, uh, there's a lot that goes into that. You know, it's a lot of it's instinct. You know, people say, you know, why would one hunter be good and another hunter fail? A lot of it has to do with instinct and, and reacting to, uh, to what you observe and that's hunting.

• 40:13Speaker 00

  Can I ask you a question about instinct?

• 40:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 40:16Speaker 00

  So I always thought you were born with instinct and I guess you are, but I remember I was talking to Rich Roll, who's like a dear friend and mentor. And I was using that word instinct and I was using it as if it was something I was born with and that doesn't change. And he said, it's learned.

• 40:32Cameron Hanes?

  Right. It's developed.

• 40:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:35Cameron Hanes?

  I believe it's developed.

• 40:36Speaker 00

  So how did you develop yours?

• 40:38Cameron Hanes?

  Experience, just I've been doing it for 40 years. Yeah. So, um, as I, as I explained to you, I learn every time I hunt still, every day I learn, every stalk, every walk, every, every, uh, encounter I learn and.

• 40:59Cameron Hanes?

  That's my goal. I want to get better. I want to develop that instinct that I that I mentioned and Rich spoke of. And that happens only if you're open to learning. If if you're not, you're not going to learn anything.

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:13Cameron Hanes?

  And so you have to be open to it. You have to receive information and and react to it. And then at the end of that, say, okay, what did I learn from this?

• 41:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, you had you also have, it seems like a strong ability to when because there was a point in that specific moment of the adventure where we left that site. So we stopped like waiting and pursuing that one like that one buck that had gotten away. So that was where I felt like interested because it was like you have to make a decision at a certain point to pivot and go somewhere else, but not feel like you've failed.

• 42:06Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  Which is an interesting dilemma for people.

• 42:09Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 42:10Speaker 00

  And I think the idea of success and failure within the scope of a really long day, you have to probably see it differently than failure because it's not a failure.

• 42:22Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  So what is it?

• 42:25Cameron Hanes?

  It's a what is that? It's a you try to take advantage of an opportunity and and you weren't able to. And that's not failing. That's hunting. And every opportunity you don't capitalize on.

• 42:42Speaker 00

  Right.

• 42:42Cameron Hanes?

  Every that wasn't even really an opportunity. We're trying to make it an opportunity. So it was it was a pre opportunity. But yeah, it's just, you know, you take your best shot, not not shooting, but you take your best attempt at, you know, getting within range of an animal. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But it's not failing. It's just like, okay, let's let's cut our losses here, not spend any more time here. At that time, it was starting to rain. And it was still early in the afternoon. It's still one o'clock. So we had four hours left. And I'm like, it's okay, we had time to do this right now. I wanted this rain to pick up. Uh, so those deer would get up off their feet because they had been bedded down. They don't like the wind.

• 43:24Cameron Hanes?

  They don't like being in the timber. So they were in the units, but they were laying down and we couldn't find them because they weren't on their feet. I thought with this rain picking up, the deer should be getting on their feet. So yeah, we gave it a shot during kind of a lull in the day. And that's okay. That's, that was fun and we can learn and, and also I wanted to do that to get. My thought was to get you more in tune with, with hunting and what it means to be a hunter and what a hunting mindset looks like. And a hunting mindset, if you just drive around and glass every once in a while, it's not, it's not. It's not being immersed in the, in the woods. It's not being immersed as a hunter and being as reactive as we need to be.

• 44:04Cameron Hanes?

  So I wanted to do that just to make sure you were punched in on the time clock on, oh, we're hunting. This is, this is what we do now. And then it just makes you, I think it makes you more available to, uh, to react accordingly when, when the time comes. Because you just, something switches and you're like, I knew you loved that walk and I knew you loved. Just, um, kind of being a student of the game. You, you like learning. And so I thought, well, this is a great opportunity to see. How open you are to learning.

• 44:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, I just also, I almost, I'm going to be dead ass. I have not seen that many like. Adult men like crawl through the woods and like go through leaves and like be quiet. Like it's just like, you're a very unique creature to me. Cause I see, you know, there's a lot of like people in suits and like. They're really buttoned up and polite and you're very polite, but you're, you're moving toward a goal.

• 45:05Cameron Hanes?

  Can you be toxic and polite? Cause I'm toxic.

• 45:10Speaker 00

  Well, okay, I was also thinking about when we were driving and we were talking about like the necklace metaphor and like hooking a difficult necklace. So like I wear a lot of choker necklaces.

• 45:21Cameron Hanes?

  Out in the mountains, there's no room for weak gear. When I'm packing out meat in the heat or loading up for a long range training trip, I need a cooler that holds the line every time. That's why I use Grizzly coolers. These things are bear proof, rugged as hell, and keep ice locked in for days, literally. I've had coolers on the trail, baking in the sun, still holding ice after hauling out elk quarters. That's performance you can count on. Whether you're running deep in the backcountry or just stacking meat for the weekend, Grizzly is built for that grind. Right now, you can get 20% off at grizzlycoolers.com with the code KEEPHAMMERING.

• 46:04Cameron Hanes?

  And that's all one word. And I'm not going to spell it. Keep hammering. Again, keep hammering, one word for 20% off. Don't roll with weak gear. Go Grizzly. When I'm glassing ridges for elk or mule deer, I can't afford to miss any movement. That's why for the past two seasons, I've been using Six Hour Binos and I absolutely love them. These optics change the game. The binos I've been using are the Zulu Image Stabilizing. That means no more shaky glass after a long hike, no more struggling to hold steady after you've humped it up a hill. With image stabilization, you lock in and pick apart the country in a way that just isn't possible with standard glass. I found more animals and saved more time

• 46:48Cameron Hanes?

  because of these binos, plain and simple. And here's the kicker. Optics companies almost never offer discounts, but Sig is giving the listeners of this podcast 10% off. Just use code CAM at checkout. So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had for the past two seasons, head to sigsour.com, grab a pair of Zulu Binos, and use code CAM for 10% off. Six Hour Zulu Binos. See more, hunt harder.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  And sometimes I can't like hook them on myself. Or I don't know if anyone's ever tried to put a bracelet on by themselves. It's very difficult.

• 47:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 47:25Speaker 00

  But you know that it can be hooked.

• 47:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, there's, it's not, it's not impossible. It's not like there's one clasp on one side and not on the other. So it's never gonna happen.

• 47:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 47:35Cameron Hanes?

  There's gonna be a connection as long as you don't give up.

• 47:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think that I saw that in you. And I learned that from you and, and I learned that that's a unique trait to your craft. And it's, and, and there are a lot of things that are like that. And there are things that are not. There are, there are goals we take on that we don't know if they're actually, you know, they could be impossible.

• 48:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. And those are fun to chase too.

• 48:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, you like that too.

• 48:04Cameron Hanes?

  But it's different. Um, there was a, a key part. We kind of skipped over, but it was a key part for a new hunter. Do you remember? So we went to the first spot, I was glass in the unit, saw the doe across the way. And do you remember that? Tell me about sight acquisition. Tell me about, uh, going through the shop process with no ammo. Do you remember doing that?

• 48:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I do remember. Um, well, it was kind of like a dress rehearsal. Um, because you had spotted the doe and the practice that I went through, or the rehearsal was really just getting into that athletic stance and that positioning that we had gotten into in our drills practice the day earlier.

• 48:50Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  And then the sight acquisition is hard because you're, I'm new to it, right? And, and brush looks very homogeneous. It's just like brown tree, brown tree, blah, blah, you know?

• 49:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  And so, um, I think that step was like familiarizing myself with finding like a landmark with my naked eye and then going back into the scope. And being able to match it and move toward and find it. And then to practice hovering, um, the target in a way that felt, you know?

• 49:25Speaker 00

  Um, effective and like steady. So we went, yeah. And then you load and you're like, I mean, you, you do a practice where you're, you're pretending to. And we did that, um, when we knew we were not gonna pursue. And I think that was really helpful because it's like, this is what it's gonna more be like, right? It's not like a tin plate.

• 49:46Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 49:47Speaker 00

  Against white sky or whatever, whatever, you know?

• 49:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 49:50Speaker 00

  So, so it's more challenging.

• 49:52Cameron Hanes?

  Right. So I, I wanted you, we took the ammo out and I wanted you to, what, what we'd call a dry fire. And that's essentially, you're aiming like you're gonna kill it. Um, it wasn't like, it wasn't a buck, but you're going through your process, sight acquisition, scope, get the float on there. Does the float go off the deer at times? Or does it stay on his vitals? And then feel that trigger, the two-stage part, and then squeeze. And I, I think I said, let's do that 10 times. And it's just a matter of getting those crosshairs on a target. And that is very, very hard for a new hunter. Just finding, you can see it with your eye, you kind of see what you're trying to find. But then you go down into the scope and it's

• 50:36Cameron Hanes?

  so zoomed in, you don't know what you're looking at. It's like, it's like looking at the ocean and trying to find a wave.

• 50:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:45Cameron Hanes?

  Specific wave. And it's like, I don't, I can't tell where I'm at. But what we do is we back the scope off. So it's less powerful. It's not zoomed in as much. You kind of orientate, I think on that one, we had, maybe there's a log pointing downhill. The doe is at the bottom of the log. So you find that log, then you go in tighter on the, on the animal. Okay, now, now how does that float look? But yeah, that was, I think that was a very important part. And it gave me confidence that you could actually find something in the scope.

• 51:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:17Cameron Hanes?

  And then that was solidified. Um, we saw another buck we were driving. A forked horned buck was about, I don't know, 80 yards off the road. And we jumped out real quick. And this isn't like a, this is just a gravel road. So you could definitely shoot if you wanted to. But, uh, it's, um, you got on that buck really fast. I, I didn't have you shoot. Um, but I was, it gave me a great confidence that you were able to get that deer in the scope so fast. And that felt pretty natural, it felt like to me, or it seemed like to me.

• 51:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think I'm I'm um, understanding that the the way that the day feels is like you need to have a it's it's really not unlike like how you run a really long distance race, except that it's a completely different goal and and there's much different physicality, but in terms of like you need to be kind of in this calm meditative presence. You can't be asleep all day, obviously, but you can't be like super jacked up and all day, like you need to be kind of cool and calm and present and da da da. And then you need to be able to like focus and turn it on and do what you've been trained to do. And um, that felt really comfortable for me to like to like wake up the other part

• 52:36Speaker 00

  of my function.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  And

• 52:42Speaker 00

  yeah, I think

• 52:45Speaker 00

  I don't know, it just might be like my where I am in life, like I think if someone has hard time with this it's not doesn't necessarily means who they are. I think that like you get to a point in life where you can um, trust yourself to do what you have already learned how to do. And even if you're not an expert, you're expert enough that you have been welcome to do something. So you know, I was not if I was like in a higher stake situation or around around people that thought I was an expert, that might have felt different, but I knew that everybody knew exactly who and what I was.

• 53:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:20Speaker 00

  You know, it was like it felt very honest. And so I was like, I can show up as like my honest self. Um, but not to sell myself short, like show up.

• 53:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  So that's how I felt. And yeah, in that moment, I remember I wasn't, obviously, I don't know what's gonna happen exactly. So I'm just like following instruction and doing the dress rehearsal as if it's the real thing every time.

• 53:46Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 53:49Speaker 00

  Because that's probably how you learn the best.

• 53:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I would think. I think some people I've I've taught people different things and I or I've pretended like I know what there's, you know how when people say, do you understand? You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. But you don't.

• 54:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:10Cameron Hanes?

  That happens that I've done that. And it's it's um,

• 54:16Cameron Hanes?

  People don't generally, I don't think, like feeling inferior or unskilled or,

• 54:26Cameron Hanes?

  um, you know, you're taught to be confident and believe in yourself, but is there that belief that hasn't been earned yet and so it's not real, but you're still saying it? Or, because being honest sometimes can sometimes be met with,

• 54:45Cameron Hanes?

  how can you not understand this? Why is this so hard for you? You know what I mean? So it's hard to be honest sometimes.

• 54:52Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 54:52Cameron Hanes?

  Um, did you find it hard or easy? I mean, you're just, I think what I heard is you said, everybody knew you were new. You didn't know anything, so it's okay for you to say, I don't understand.

• 55:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I have a really positive association with the truth and more and more positive as I get older. And I think if somebody has trouble with this, the first thing is to ask themselves outside of this context, do I have a positive association with the truth? And can I start to believe that the truth is good? And sometimes the truth hurts. Like if you're talking about like, oh, like a boy doesn't want to date you anymore and it breaks your heart, that hurts. But ultimately, it's actually good to know that because it accelerates your life and you don't want to be with someone, you know what I mean? It's like, so the truth is good if you keep going. You can't, you had to go, you had to keep the camera rolling, as they say, and you have to like play your life out and the truth is always really good.

• 55:50Speaker 00

  And in a circumstance where you're in a team environment with one goal, which is like my whole life, team sports, making a movie, team goal, we're all trying to do something together. The truth allows your teammates to be the best teammates to you. And so if you can also trust that these are your real teammates and they want the goal too, then your honesty is crucial to the success of the project.

• 56:14Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 56:15Speaker 00

  Um, and so I think it, I think the real problem isn't happening in the moment. It's really having a zoomed out discussion with yourself and maturing and really believing that the truth is good. And that fear of like, oh, you didn't know this, da, da, da, da, like, um, I guess. Maybe don't be in rooms with people like that because you guys weren't like that. Like you and Kevin were never gonna. Or if you were to, I would have been like, yeah, I don't know that like, because it's still the truth. And so I'm not going to shame myself if I don't know something that I should have known. It's like, well, I just, I didn't, you know, you, whatever. Now you do. Um, and then, but when it comes to. Uh, like, is your scope?

• 56:58Speaker 00

  Are you on the target? Like, I remember you guys, because there's a safety, right? And you always ask, like, are you good? Was that what we said? Are you good? Are you ready? Are you good?

• 57:08Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know, probably said a million different things.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  I'm like, I'm good.

• 57:11Cameron Hanes?

  I'm not sure. Yeah. I think it was like, uh, yeah, you good? Like. Can we take the safety off? Like, meaning, are you on the target, ready to go?

• 57:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:20Speaker 00

  When, when I was.

• 57:21Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 57:22Speaker 00

  And when I knew it, there's almost no better feeling than actually being certain.

• 57:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:27Speaker 00

  And so I think it's also about talking to people who have trouble with the truth. Saying that when you do know something for sure. It's a really good feeling.

• 57:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:37Speaker 00

  Um, and you'll know it when you feel it.

• 57:39Cameron Hanes?

  Right. No. Um. Did you think? You were gonna get a buck?

• 57:47Speaker 00

  No, it wasn't my goal, really.

• 57:50Cameron Hanes?

  What was your goal?

• 57:51Speaker 00

  I mean, my goal was to, to participate and learn. From you and like. I guess it, it, it was a goal because it was our goal.

• 58:00Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 58:01Speaker 00

  But it wasn't something I would have been. Disappointed in because getting a buck or not didn't limit me from learning about you. Your life, your craft. The values and the principles. I learned everything I, I think I learned. Ninety-nine percent of what I was gonna learn before that.

• 58:23Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 58:24Speaker 00

  And so I wasn't, I didn't feel desperate.

• 58:27Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 58:28Speaker 00

  Um.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  But I didn't know. Yeah, I didn't know, especially because the weather and I and you seemed like, I don't know you well enough to know, like, if you're like theatrically frustrated. I think that you are. I think that you like the drama of all of it, which I think is an amazing quality, because you're really doing it. You're like, I, yeah, it's frustrating in the hunterly way.

• 58:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 58:54Speaker 00

  Like, right?

• 58:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Well, how is that frustrated?

• 58:57Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, you cursed this buck that ran away from us. You cursed the weather. You, uh, um.

• 59:04Cameron Hanes?

  I don't curse.

• 59:05Speaker 00

  No, you were, yeah, you were using really kind language. We didn't like have like lunch with us. So like we were eating like Pringles and cupcakes. And I think that was a hard, um, we like, we're just eating everything we had. Um, so yeah, you had like a theater to you, which only read as passionate, which was cool. I like being around people who care.

• 59:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I definitely care.

• 59:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:32Cameron Hanes?

  About that.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  So I didn't know.

• 59:34Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 59:35Speaker 00

  Um, and also like, I didn't know how unusual it was how the day was going because I have no reference. So I was like, I can't really. I don't know.

• 59:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's just good. Don't know why this is good or bad or or in between. Yeah, um.

• 59:52Cameron Hanes?

  Trying to think of, uh. Yeah. So for me personally,

• 59:59Cameron Hanes?

  I wanted you on this hunt because

• 1:00:04Cameron Hanes?

  you're so unique and you verbalize what I've done my whole life in it in a way I've never heard. So to me, that's, I like that. That's exciting. That's, um, I like to hear a different perspective, or I like to hear things that I'm passionate about and I love. Explained in a way that I hadn't thought of before. And you're amazing at that. So to me, that was, I loved it. But I wanted you to experience the whole part of it, just so you knew, okay, we had this goal. We had to earn these opportunities. And then we have to capitalize on this opportunity.

• 1:00:47Cameron Hanes?

  And then if successful, the gravity of that situation too. And then on the other side of that, the nourishment we might get from, from that. And I wanted all of that for you. But we had two days, which is,

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:03Cameron Hanes?

  is not a long time.

• 1:01:05Speaker 00

  And that's because I think people, they probably know it more than I do, but I thought it was cool. The season is only, it's short.

• 1:01:12Cameron Hanes?

  It's like 30 days long. So it ends today. Today's November 7th. You got here on Wednesday, the 5th. So we had the 6th and 7th to hunt, which is, you know, and I explained to you, and I explained to Cheeto also, most people on this hunt don't succeed. The success rate on deer with the rifle is, you know, 20 some percent. So two out of 10 people are successful, eight out of 10 are unsuccessful. And that's with who knows how long they hunt, but they had 30 days to get it done. We had two and you had never shot a rifle and you'd never hunted. So I knew the odds were not in our favor. I needed the weather to cooperate. I needed the animals to cooperate.

• 1:01:55Cameron Hanes?

  I needed me to make good decisions and I needed to set you up for success. That's a lot that has to come together. That's, those are a lot of factors, many of them out outside of our control. And so I was feeling a little bit of weight. And then, then also I didn't want to force a situation, which knowing you now, I couldn't force you to do something you, you wouldn't want to do, or you weren't comfortable with, but some people would. So I could potentially force a shot that would result in a wounded animal. And the last thing I ever want, especially for a new hunter, is to know what it's like to wound an animal and not recover it.

• 1:02:37Cameron Hanes?

  And to think that animals out there suffering and be living with that for, forever. And some people, that would be the first and last time they ever hunted. Because that's a terrible feeling to know you inflicted injury on something and it's suffering. So. In weighing all that out, I understand there's a responsibility that I have with taking a new hunter and potentially forcing them to make a shot they weren't ready for, and the animal suffers. And the way, the esteem that I hold these animals at, the respect and the honor I try to, um, to, um, I just want to honor the hunt and what it

• 1:03:19Cameron Hanes?

  means to be a hunter, and also not disrespect the animals by putting somebody in position to potentially fail. And so, I was trying to consider all that while trying to be, um, a good mentor to you.

• 1:03:35Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:36Cameron Hanes?

  And, so yeah.

• 1:03:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, and you, and you are, and you were, um, and I feel like the person that you reminded me of most was when I was, before the Olympics, I'm Greek-American, I go to Greece to train, and I was at an altitude camp in Greece, in Karpanisi, this mountain town, and it was me and these two boys that were like, basically my training partners before the Games. We stayed at this bed and breakfast in like, remote Greece, where the same guy like, owned the bed and breakfast, made our beds, grew all the food, all the animals cooked all the food, like he was one-man band, and we ate every meal together with these boys, and then we'd go train, then we'd eat another meal, then we'd take a nap, then we'd train,

• 1:04:24Speaker 00

  then we'd eat another meal, then we'd go to sleep, and we did that for a month. And this is a month before I broke the national record and ran really, really well at the Games. And we ate food that this, we ate like, meat that was, was from this, this place we were staying, and I remember that, um, the, because I don't know if I should call him a, he's a farmer, and he's a Airbnb, or he's a bed and breakfast owner, you know, he, you know, are, he told me, like, when he would serve the food, he's like, I, you know, I knew this rabbit, this was a good rabbit, and I thought he was being playful, but I really think he was being respectful. And I really thought it was cool to have

• 1:05:07Speaker 00

  this like, closed-circle experience, um, and, and...

• 1:05:13Speaker 00

  To have a mindful.

• 1:05:15Cameron Hanes?

  Connection.

• 1:05:16Speaker 00

  Connection. And we took those meals slow, like the Greeks eat slow, they're thoughtful. And I think you reminded me of that.

• 1:05:27Speaker 00

  A lot.

• 1:05:29Speaker 00

  And then, yeah, I remember you telling me there's a big chance we don't succeed. And it was shortly before we did.

• 1:05:38Speaker 00

  And I would, it would have been, it is what it is to me, you know, that's, but.

• 1:05:47Speaker 00

  I was just sleepy, I think. So I was like, it'd be better to do this today than another day.

• 1:05:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:56Speaker 00

  I think there's something, a word you said a bunch, which is the word opportunity. And I think when you talk about pressure. I think the way to. Respond to pressure is to try to see these situations as opportunities. Rather than a place where if you don't do it, you fail. So it's really your, the starting point is. You're looking at a bright sun ahead of you when you have a high pressure situation and you're like. I would love to move towards the sun. The sun is warm. It's lovely. But I think you use the word a lot. And so you seem to see this all as opportunity, even if you feel it as pressure. And that's a different way to approach pressure.

• 1:06:38Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't.

• 1:06:42Cameron Hanes?

  I never told you we had, we were under pressure or I was under pressure. I, I never, I never tried to exhibit pressure. Normally on a hunt, what I'll say is like. I don't care what happens.

• 1:06:58Cameron Hanes?

  I'm gonna, this is gonna work out. I don't care what I have to overcome. Eventually, because I won't quit, it's gonna work out. So we just needed more opportunity. If that one didn't work, good, we gotta earn another one. And that's, that was all day. More opportunity.

• 1:07:19Speaker 00

  More music.

• 1:07:21Cameron Hanes?

  More music. Yeah. More Carly Simon, You're So Vain. And then also.

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  Nine Inch Nails.

• 1:07:29Cameron Hanes?

  Closer. That's such a good song.

• 1:07:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I think that, that turned the tide. That song.

• 1:07:38Cameron Hanes?

  We got in the zone.

• 1:07:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, we also learned, I mean, I learned a lot about Oregon history. I learned about, you know, the history of the town that we were in Powers, like met people from the town. Like, there's a lot about this experience that goes way beyond like the hunting.

• 1:07:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:55Speaker 00

  I think that is pretty cool, too.

• 1:07:58Cameron Hanes?

  I wanted to share, I know it was like nonstop, you know, babbling basically from me, but I wanted to share, you know, and I've tried to, anybody who I've talked to about this hunt, I said, I want to share with you how I grew up hunting. Because I'm from a small town like Powers. I'm from a town where people, that's what they do. They work in the woods. They, it's just blue collar. It's, there's not a ton of like, like, it's just is what it is. But it's, it's hard work, but they have a lot of pride in it. And, and loggers and people who work in the woods, they have a lot of pride in what they do, and I love that, and I want to share that.

• 1:08:40Cameron Hanes?

  So we talked about logging, we talked about the timber industry, we talked about the spotted owl, we talked about how environmental factors have changed logging over the years. We talked about, you know, second growth, old growth, reprod, logging units, building roads, like the, the art of building roads. We talked about how back in the day, those logs were extracted from the mountains on a railcar by, powered by coal. And so there's guys cutting wood all day to power coal engines to get logs out of the woods, to get them to the river where they'd be pushed by a barge to the mill. We talked about the history of all of them, and nobody, nobody thinks or really cares about

• 1:09:22Cameron Hanes?

  the, the men that do work like that, but they love their wood house, you know, they love their wood furniture, their wood doors, the beauty of wood, and there's a lot that goes into timber. And so I, I was so excited for anybody. But you remind me of one I shared, you know, where I grew up with Chris Williamson, because he's like what somebody, somebody would say is an intellectual and has a different way of interpreting that lifestyle. And that's, that's why I love sharing it. But in this specifically with you, as I said, you know, as a wordsmith, you have a different way of putting things. But yeah, so I loved, it was, seemed like a nonstop.

• 1:10:03Cameron Hanes?

  Uh, I don't know, not a history lesson, but just sharing what's important to me. And that's why I wanted that. But also, I am a hunter. So

• 1:10:17Cameron Hanes?

  the journey of a hunter isn't to kill, but that's part of the journey. And that's you can't, you can't finish your journey without the kill. And so to be a hunter, I think

• 1:10:32Cameron Hanes?

  you need to be, kill an animal, get that meat out of the mountains and provide to those you love. To have an explanation, or to, no, to have a, um, a period on the end of this story, to have a conclusion, we needed a buck.

• 1:10:52Cameron Hanes?

  So tell me about that last hunt.

• 1:10:55Speaker 00

  So we came to the place that is your favorite place.

• 1:11:00Cameron Hanes?

  It is.

• 1:11:00Speaker 00

  And I don't know why we don't go to your favorite place first, but I think it was because there was a journey to go through.

• 1:11:08Cameron Hanes?

  I did not want, just like with Cheeto, I did not want the hunt to end too soon because to appreciate what it takes, we needed all the failures.

• 1:11:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:20Cameron Hanes?

  We needed all the experience.

• 1:11:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, we got there and it was, um, I think it was raining. Yeah, it was raining. That's good in this world. Um, and then we found, um, an area and we were glassing, which is a new term for me. I think middle school girls would say they're glassing at the school dance and find a hot guy. But I guess that's a really weird thing to say.

• 1:11:53Cameron Hanes?

  It's about the same.

• 1:11:55Speaker 00

  I know. Um, so we were glassing and I'm not the best at it, but I always try. I'm always like, okay, just try to do the thing. Um, and then you found, um, a buck laying in, on the side of like a mountain underneath like this log next to a neon looking tree.

• 1:12:15Speaker 00

  And I didn't see it at all with my naked eye. I didn't see it until I was in the scope, which took me a second because usually it's it's nice if you can see something with your naked eye and then you pull the binoculars. That's more oriented for me. So this was it was kind of disorienting to find it only through the scope.

• 1:12:33Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:12:33Speaker 00

  And I guess I don't know so many things. I don't know what forty yards means based on the scope. Like, I don't know a lot. So it was we were using descriptors that were useful. And I think it's interesting when you put yourself in a really, you know, intense team situation. It's not about doing everything. It's about what works for the team. And so we were speaking about this neon tree and the Christmas tree and the log in terms of like helping me find where this animal was. And so I found it. And then there's a way that you want it's it's there's a way we were hoping the animal would be facing and there was an orientation that I would have where I would be best situated to like be confident.

• 1:13:18Cameron Hanes?

  And be steady.

• 1:13:19Speaker 00

  And be steady. And I was actually crouched down and I'm strong. But being that crouched, sometimes you're like shaking a bit. And so I was like, I'm not it's not that I'm gonna fall. It's that I'm not steady enough to hold the the what is it called?

• 1:13:34Cameron Hanes?

  Scope.

• 1:13:35Speaker 00

  No, the float, the float. And so you made the call to switch me to sitting on my butt and having a log.

• 1:13:46Cameron Hanes?

  On the bipod.

• 1:13:47Speaker 00

  On the bipod.

• 1:13:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, or the so we we started, you were on your knees and we had the tripod and had the gun in it. And to me, that seemed like too much of a lever. Because we didn't like when you shot off the bench at three hundred yards, the back, the stock of the rifle was supported also. So it was very secure. In this situation with the tripod, there's a lever there. The stock of the scope is only in your shoulder but not supported. That means you can move around a lot. Then you said, well, your, your, your legs were getting tired or your back or something like that. So I was like, okay, well, cause it, it took a little while to get that.

• 1:14:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:27Cameron Hanes?

  To find that buck. It had been like a few minutes by this time and I was generally bucks don't hang around that long. And especially this time of year, they're cruising. I didn't know he had a hot doe, a doe in heat there. She was bedded. We couldn't see him. I thought he was just gonna go across that hillside and be gone out of our lives. So I'm like, okay, we gotta hustle, we gotta hustle. Are you on it? Are you on it? I'm like, you know, where's the green tree? Green tree, a neon tree, forty yards. What's forty? Don't know what forty yards. You know, probably forty yards is right here, maybe in the driveway or a forty yard dash, but not three hundred yards away on the side of a hill. What is forty yards over there?

• 1:15:08Cameron Hanes?

  I was taking for granted. Everybody knew what references and distance and things meant, but we didn't. So that took a little bit. Then this, the setup wasn't perfect. So I was like, okay, I told Kevin, I said, give me a, a, a big log. I want to get her on the bipod. So we got on the bipod, got you on your butt. Then it was, that seemed way more secure. But then we had the issue with the eye.

• 1:15:30Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, my eye. Okay. I don't know. I gotta talk to my, my eye doctor about this, but basically like it, when I closed my left eye, my right eye.

• 1:15:43Speaker 00

  It was like coming in and out, like it was like literally blacking out and then coming back in as if I couldn't see out of it, which might have meant that I was trying to open my left eye. Or something. And then you were covering my left eye. So my eye was really like, I didn't feel, and I didn't feel freaked out. I just felt I had like a mechanical, like a, like a doll where the eye like ones open. What is in Toy Story? There's like that broken doll.

• 1:16:09Cameron Hanes?

  Didn't Katy Perry's eye do that after she went to space? Like on a?

• 1:16:13Speaker 00

  Yes, I felt like one of those somewhere in the spectrum of a Toy Story. Yeah, I was in a Toy Story doll to the very eye. Um, and so I really, but meanwhile, um, anytime I had vision it properly, I just tried to keep that step going because that step of having the um, the flow in the proper place was like the, the step I was on, right? Everything else was situated. And so once that was like set, like no matter if my eye was coming in and out of, of vision, I still had the float properly. Um, that step was like solid.

• 1:16:53Speaker 00

  And so once my vision came, came to, which I think was you covering my other eye properly and just a bit of time, then I was ready. And um, it, you know, you're ignorant enough to not know how not ready you might be.

• 1:17:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:10Speaker 00

  But I was ready for a freshman.

• 1:17:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:13Speaker 00

  Um, and I think that, that uh, I don't know if it's like nature or nurture that like brought me to that point, like to be that ready. And I am interested in like the dynamic between nature and nurture because of like, um, things I've discovered as I'm older that I wasn't raised with. And losing my mom young, I think there's just parts of me that are from her that I can only discover by living life and following my curiosity, which was part of wanting to meet you in person and do this together.

• 1:17:55Speaker 00

  And I think in that moment though, um, yeah, I felt quite confident and, and as certain as I was going to be, and I think as certain as anyone would have been in that, as certain as I could have been. And I think maybe that's what hunting is too, is like you're as certain as you can be. There's always nature.

• 1:18:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, there's always unpredictableness. Yeah.

• 1:18:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, um.

• 1:18:24Speaker 00

  And I was particularly thankful for the training for understanding the angles and how to like most like, you know, to do it in a way that was like most respectful and proper.

• 1:18:40Cameron Hanes?

  Ethical.

• 1:18:41Speaker 00

  And ethical.

• 1:18:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:43Speaker 00

  So I thought about that. And then, yeah, we did it. And it was, and I guess I'm not bad.

• 1:18:57Cameron Hanes?

  You're, yeah, you're amazing. So, let me think. Covering your eye, if I just was lightly pushing on your eye, I could feel it trying to blink. So I had to actually push on your eyeball.

• 1:19:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:10Cameron Hanes?

  And then you're like, okay, that's good. And that would somehow kick this eye into working better. So, so I'm like this, and I told Kevin, because I can't like, I can't, or no, I can't do this and glass. So I'm like, I said, Kevin, watch where your shot goes. And you felt, when you say, I'm good, we realize that means it's on, you're, you're ready to go. And slow squeeze, feel both stages of that trigger, and you can hear a bullet hit. And I heard, I'm like, that's a hit. And the, and the buck, as I said, almost immediately dead, down. And it was a

• 1:19:53Cameron Hanes?

  perfect shot. You seem, you seem reflective. What are you thinking?

• 1:19:59Speaker 00

  Well, I just have the whole, like, there's this, I, I, I don't know that this is really your audience, but there's always that, like, conversation in your head of, like, yeah, I think I just, like, grew in real time. I think this, nothing to do with your audience, I think. I, I, I think to start the sentence over, I think that I, that. I think I grew in real time because there are very few things in my life. Where um when I say I'm good, I mean it in the present and I mean that I already have. Um, I have certainty.

• 1:20:38Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:38Speaker 00

  So we talked about this, but I'll share again that most things in my life, when I say I can do it. I haven't done it yet. And I know you said, well, you hadn't actually done it yet, but I meant I had done everything I could do. To be ready for the moment where I said I'm good.

• 1:20:55Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:20:56Speaker 00

  And um, it's very cool to feel like. That you are saying something with certainty because you are certain, not you're ninety nine percent certain, you're very, very certain, but like you're certain. I mean, and I did feel certain and I think I grew in real time. Because I. I think I like the part of me that that gives myself opportunities to be certain. And be confident and contribute to teams. Like I think that that's a part of myself that I.

• 1:21:29Cameron Hanes?

  Tell me another example of you having that certainty.

• 1:21:33Speaker 00

  It, I mean.

• 1:21:36Speaker 00

  Uh, there's very few.

• 1:21:38Cameron Hanes?

  Have you ever had been that certain about something before?

• 1:21:40Speaker 00

  The only thing I could tell you is if I was already carrying something and someone said, are you good? But even then, if I was like carrying a heavy object across my house, for example. If I say I'm good, I still don't actually know if I'll still be good in the next step and in the next step. This, I really meant that like. It had been done, like the hovering, like I wasn't, it wasn't gonna change.

• 1:22:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So this might be the only time you've ever been this certain?

• 1:22:06Speaker 00

  I think so. I mean, I think, I think I'm very like. Uh, I mean, I'm certain I could like finish a marathon, you know, but. So, but I haven't.

• 1:22:17Cameron Hanes?

  What if your body says no?

• 1:22:19Speaker 00

  You're right. You don't know.

• 1:22:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:20Speaker 00

  So this is a thing. Yeah, this is, this was certain.

• 1:22:24Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:24Speaker 00

  Um.

• 1:22:27Speaker 00

  And because there's so few opportunities to be certain like that in life, I guess, we probably aren't used to it.

• 1:22:34Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:35Speaker 00

  And so it could probably trick us and humans may not let themselves feel certainty because we so infrequently do.

• 1:22:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Or, or, yeah, we don't know what it's like.

• 1:22:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, we don't know what it's like. Yeah, you were saying, yeah, that feeling of, um, yeah, like of confidence and of, I mean, I just kept feeling like a rascal, which is like who I really feel like I am.

• 1:23:00Cameron Hanes?

  Tell me, define, because you've said that a number of times. What is a rascal to you?

• 1:23:04Speaker 00

  Oh, I'm a rascal. Um, a rascal is like, oh, man, a gamer, a rascal's a gamer. A rascal like just kind of doesn't, like, my rascal self, like, is, my heart is good and does what it takes, but is like, it's fundamentally good. So like, even if it's mischief, it's good mischief.

• 1:23:25Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:23:26Speaker 00

  Um, so I think rascals are like, good.

• 1:23:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. They're up to something, but it's not mischievous.

• 1:23:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like, I know you say you're not book smart, but in A Midsummer Night's Dream, the Shakespeare play, there's a character called Puck. Puck is mischief is good. So Puck like switches the love potions and causes all this chaos. And that's kind of like the kind of mischief I like to get into. And that's sort of the rascal energy. A rascal's not afraid to get dirty and be in the mud and do what it takes. The rascal's probably gonna fall down and get scabs. The rascal has other people's back. The rascal will say yes till they can't anymore. And I think a rascal's pretty honest.

• 1:24:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, so you were certain. I wasn't certain. And when you shot, I was like, I'm like, did, I had to be convinced that I saw what I saw, because it was perfect. And I'm like, looking, I'm like, is that buck? That, is that, is it, he laying right there? So I took off like, I don't know, as fast as I can sprint, all the way around, all the way down to the other landing to get a better angle. And sure as anything, that buck's laying there dead. I mean, you just, it was immediate, perfect, perfect, absolutely perfect shot. What I remember, what I will never forget.

• 1:24:50Cameron Hanes?

  Is because I took off sprinting and was gone. And then you hear you and Kevin come coming down the road. And like for maybe a hundred yards. I'm I like go like this, and then I go like this, like a like a hug. And you is like sprinted for a hundred yards and fricking full speed into me. And we hugged and I'm like, you got your first buck. And that was like, probably one of the most beautiful moments. For sure, in hunting, because hunting is usually just a guy thing. But it's like, that moment.

• 1:25:26Cameron Hanes?

  How did that feel?

• 1:25:30Cameron Hanes?

  I was proud, relieved, happy. I was a lot. I was a lot. It was it was a beautiful moment. But also surprised. Because that is a 260 yard shot. On your butt, on a bipod. Of a wild, a wild animal that's moving and you absolutely was perfect. That was amazing.

• 1:26:03Speaker 00

  Well, I, yeah, I still think I have to like process it for a bit. Because there's like an athletic side of me that's like, hell, yeah, like it's good. I'm competitive like you are. So it's nice to be good at something. And then there's a part of you that wants to be included. And feels, I mean, look, it's a tradition. And I didn't like grow up with so many traditions. And so like when I get welcomed into a tradition, which has happened in a handful of times in my life. It's really special for me.

• 1:26:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:39Speaker 00

  Um, like your family like raised you like like it's like. I respect that these, these are like. Um, this is important to you and that there's a whole community and that. Um, so to feel like included. I don't know. I think there's also kind of an orphan energy in my rascalsness.

• 1:26:59Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:27:00Speaker 00

  And

• 1:27:00Cameron Hanes?

  Wanting to belong.

• 1:27:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, wanting to belong and like, I'm trying to like, live a really big, brave life. And not because I want to be different. I don't even want to be what I am, but I am what I am. And I think that. I have no choice but to be me. And that makes me a rascal because I think it's a combination of circumstance and my whatever nature inside.

• 1:27:30Cameron Hanes?

  Are you emotional?

• 1:27:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, because it is, um, like, being like included makes me feel like, uh,

• 1:27:44Speaker 00

  like I can go be my like rascal self and I have like a friend in you. And I also like have this whole world that I know kind of is going to do this whether I'm a part of it or not. Right. And I imagine you like being in the woods and living your big, awesome life. And I know you're there, even if I can't see you. That's like a metaphor and literal. And then to know that I like, I don't know, it's just something like really cool about knowing that you have sort of, um, a little, you're a little bit a part of a very rich community and, um, a person that you really admire. And when we did go down and see the buck,

• 1:28:22Speaker 00

  you were very, very slow and thoughtful about talking about how much this means and the respect and the process and the ritual. And, um, I really understood it like fully. And I think that what's hard is like, I don't know that I can articulate to other people that I'm going to go talk to as well as you can. But I hope that people understand, you know, your perspective on it because I certainly did by being around you.

• 1:28:52Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:28:55Cameron Hanes?

  Well, yeah, I mean, there's, there's a weight to killing.

• 1:29:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:29:02Cameron Hanes?

  It's, uh, I talked about when I first started hunting, I didn't understand that I was young. Um, but now I understand, you know, it's, it's life, it's death, it's, uh, you know, we can't be here without causing death. Hunters take that literal and we provide and we kill and that's, that's what hunting is.

• 1:29:26Cameron Hanes?

  But people kill every day to survive, but they don't do it personally. They they pay somebody to do it for them. And people will say, well, you could, you know, be a vegan, you could do that. And, you know, we always talk about this. I've talked about it ad nauseam. It doesn't matter what you do, you're causing death. But I respect somebody who can

• 1:29:49Cameron Hanes?

  take ownership over that and literally have blood on their hands and say, yes, I did this and it's, there's a lot of gravity and there's a lot of, this is very meaningful and an animal died by my hands.

• 1:30:06Cameron Hanes?

  Even just saying that is hard for for people. Even just acknowledging that is hard for for most people. Hunters do it. And it is a tradition and we wouldn't be here if our ancestors didn't hunt. And people say, well, that was, that was a time long ago. It's like, well, no, because I've done it my whole life. So that's time right now. And also for this whole thing to work, as I explained to you, we saw two bear, you know, right not far from your kill. If, say, if we didn't, if we didn't kill deer,

• 1:30:45Cameron Hanes?

  that there would be, there has to be a balance and hunters are the only ones who can understand that balance and everything has to work together. It's it's very, it's a harmony out there. And all I know is that I was, man has hunted since the beginning of time. We still do it. And to do it correctly, I think, is is how how life is supposed to be left, lived. Does everybody need to hunt? No, you don't have to. Do you have to understand why hunting is important and necessary? And what it means to to this fabric of humanity? You can understand that you don't have to do it, but you can understand it. So all I know, we, you made a great shot.

• 1:31:30Cameron Hanes?

  That animal didn't suffer. We honored the animal and we're gonna honor the animal. You're gonna honor it forever by having that that memory on the wall with those antlers. We have the meat, we took great care of the meat. The meat was perfectly clean. This morning, we had backstraps and tenderloins and potatoes and eggs. And it was amazing. We're getting the rest of the meat processed and you're gonna eat it and you're gonna share it with your community. That's what it means to be a hunter. A hunter is a provider. We've always been providers in our community. Not everybody hunts, but everybody relies on hunters to provide. And when a hunter is successful, the community rejoices because we have something

• 1:32:14Cameron Hanes?

  to eat. You're a hunter, you're a provider, and you understand what that means. And that was an honor to share that with you.

• 1:32:24Speaker 00

  You're a really great friend and a great coach, and I think I'll be absorbing it for a long time. What we talked about, because you don't really have the words for everything you feel. So I think I don't have all the words. But I'm gonna try to go a little slower. You know, the holidays are coming, and I think some of what I like about that time is like to be able to like, slow down a little bit and absorb the enormity of my experiences. Because otherwise, I think we can have opportunities to grow and we can stay the same. And I think

• 1:33:08Speaker 00

  I'll, you know, I think I've done a lot of growing this year, but I could do, I could reflect and let it be more real.

• 1:33:17Speaker 00

  And I appreciate you because like, I definitely like, ask a lot of questions, you know, and like, I definitely am aware of like, the contradiction in like, even, you know, some people I know are so like, they eat meat for most of their meals, but they don't, they don't want to like, participate in hunting, and I get that. But once you talk to them, it's like, I think, once they learn that it's so different than, yeah, like, the animals in captivity, the lives. I mean, you didn't even have us, you made sure that it was, had to be an old, an old buck. That was, you didn't mention that. But you're very like, certain that these animals live their full wildlife, and then don't get like, mauled

• 1:34:02Speaker 00

  by another animal, I guess is one of the alternatives.

• 1:34:06Cameron Hanes?

  Well, if, if it's not death by a bullet or an arrow, it's gonna be slow and painful. There is no other type of death in the wild. They're not getting struck by lightning very often. Probably has happened, but it's not generally how it goes. Generally, it's starving, or a bear, or a lion. Lots of lions in this country, and it's gonna be... And there's no compassion in the wild. So as I said, you know, it's gonna be much slower and more excruciating if it's not by the hand of a hunter.

• 1:34:38Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah, it's cool. And, um... Yeah, nature, um... Mother Nature is undefeated, is what Kevin said.

• 1:34:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's a fact.

• 1:34:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I still think I gotta think about that one.

• 1:34:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. We, uh, we react to Mother Nature. We have no say in it.

• 1:35:02Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. Well, and, um, I got to know you. And I think that's like, really, really awesome. Like, we're like... I don't think we're unlikely friends, actually, at the end of the day. But definitely like, thankful that there was a way for us to like, do something together that let me spend time with you. And like, really understand how you grew up. And you're just like, very generous in a way that, like, with... With telling those stories, and like, you don't have to share this. You could just do it. And sharing it means that I get to... Get to know you.

• 1:35:40Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I feel very lucky.

• 1:35:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:35:43Cameron Hanes?

  I feel very lucky for the time we spent. And to be able to introduce you into this tradition of hunting. It's, uh, this enriches my life, you know, more than I could put into words. Cause I know like, ten words, and how I feel is outside of those ten. So, um, yeah, this is, this has been amazing. I can't think of a more enjoyable hunt I've had recently. So, I'm very, very thankful for you. You're an amazing person. You're an incredible young lady. And, um, it's, uh, it was... Yeah, it was great. But, James has some questions for you, too.

• 1:36:26Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:36:28Cameron Hanes?

  We call him the Peanut Gallery.

• 1:36:29Speaker 00

  Okay, cool.

• 1:36:30Speaker 02

  These are gonna seem out of place.

• 1:36:32Speaker 00

  Okay, great.

• 1:36:33Speaker 02

  You guys did answer a couple of them, but...

• 1:36:35Speaker 00

  Okay, okay.

• 1:36:38Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, first, we have a tradition of a certain question.

• 1:36:45Speaker 00

  Great.

• 1:36:45Speaker 02

  And it is-

• 1:36:46Cameron Hanes?

  This definitely will be much different than our discussion.

• 1:36:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. It is, uh, [BLEEP] marry kill. Have you heard of that?

• 1:36:53Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Wow. I've never played this game.

• 1:36:57Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:36:58Speaker 00

  I have a more wholesome audience.

• 1:37:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, we, what's awesome, what's the opposite of wholesome? That's our audience.

• 1:37:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay. I can do that.

• 1:37:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:37:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, okay.

• 1:37:09Cameron Hanes?

  Let's see how, how varied you are.

• 1:37:11Speaker 00

  Okay, let's, okay.

• 1:37:12Speaker 02

  Your [BLEEP] marry kill is film.

• 1:37:16Speaker 00

  What?

• 1:37:17Speaker 02

  Film, writing, and running.

• 1:37:21Speaker 00

  Well, okay, oh, wait, but, wait, but I've never played the game before. Okay, so is it just random?

• 1:37:29Cameron Hanes?

  No, so it's-

• 1:37:30Speaker 00

  Oh, my god.

• 1:37:30Cameron Hanes?

  So, Mary, you're there, you're with that thing for the rest of your life. Cause for fun.

• 1:37:36Speaker 02

  It's like a one night hookup.

• 1:37:37Speaker 00

  Oh, my god!

• 1:37:38Cameron Hanes?

  And kill is, you're done with it forever.

• 1:37:41Speaker 00

  Oh, what?

• 1:37:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:43Speaker 00

  But you gave me three words that I would, um-

• 1:37:46Cameron Hanes?

  No, you have to choose. That's the game. So you have to make a decision. What are you gonna do for the rest of your life? What are you doing like a one night fling? And what are you never doing again of those three?

• 1:37:57Speaker 00

  What? I can't, I'm, I, I can't do that.

• 1:38:01Cameron Hanes?

  You can. You're gonna have to.

• 1:38:02Speaker 02

  You have to, actually.

• 1:38:03Speaker 00

  But I'm a multi-hyphenate, so I'm gonna do them all.

• 1:38:06Cameron Hanes?

  Maybe this ketone will help.

• 1:38:07Speaker 00

  Okay, Michael ketones.

• 1:38:09Cameron Hanes?

  Michael Brand.

• 1:38:10Speaker 00

  Michael Brand ketones.

• 1:38:12Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, please give her strength, brain strength right now.

• 1:38:15Speaker 00

  No, I don't want to do this.

• 1:38:16Cameron Hanes?

  You have to. It's the game.

• 1:38:18Speaker 02

  We, we actually can't let you out of here until you answer.

• 1:38:21Speaker 00

  Well, here's the thing. Okay, I know, I'm gonna, I'm smart enough to say that I've tried to kill running, so I can say kill and it won't be dead. So, running, I can say kill, cause it will never die. Ha, ha, ha. And then, um-

• 1:38:38Speaker 00

  Wait, that's

• 1:38:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:40Speaker 00

  Cause I didn't know if kind of positive or negative association.

• 1:38:44Cameron Hanes?

  Positive.

• 1:38:46Speaker 00

  No, you said, oh.

• 1:38:47Cameron Hanes?

  But it's a one night stand. Yeah.

• 1:38:50Speaker 00

  So kill is running because it will never die.

• 1:38:53Cameron Hanes?

  No, kill, you're done with forever. She's trying to cheat the game.

• 1:38:55Speaker 00

  I'm telling you, it won't die. I can't kill running.

• 1:38:58Cameron Hanes?

  What do you want to do for the rest of your life of those three? That's a Mary.

• 1:39:03Speaker 00

  But I know I will run and write for the rest of my life.

• 1:39:06Cameron Hanes?

  No, you won't. Not after this game.

• 1:39:09Speaker 00

  Don't curse me. I don't want to be cursed on this game.

• 1:39:14Cameron Hanes?

  It's just a game. It's for fun.

• 1:39:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I take everything seriously.

• 1:39:18Cameron Hanes?

  I know you do.

• 1:39:18Speaker 00

  I know, no, no, you're going to learn something about me. I take it very seriously. Like yesterday, I was like fully immersed in that world.

• 1:39:24Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, listen.

• 1:39:25Speaker 00

  I'm getting up because of this.

• 1:39:27Cameron Hanes?

  How about, okay, listen.

• 1:39:28Speaker 00

  I hate this.

• 1:39:29Cameron Hanes?

  Let's change this game.

• 1:39:30Speaker 00

  No, I want to be myself. I'm going to say kill running. It will never die. So I'm saying kill running because it will never die.

• 1:39:36Cameron Hanes?

  All right.

• 1:39:36Speaker 00

  I know it. It's a ghost everywhere. Okay, kill running. It will never die. Um, and then is the one night thing.

• 1:39:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:44Speaker 00

  Okay, movies, because, uh, um, because I have a really big one that I'm about to make and then maybe I'll move on to the television world. Who knows?

• 1:39:52Cameron Hanes?

  Now we're talking. See, this is a game.

• 1:39:54Speaker 00

  Okay, I'm smart. And then marry writing because yeah, I'll never stop writing.

• 1:39:57Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:39:58Speaker 00

  And, and that one I do need to marry because it won't come back to life. Like if you don't write every day, here's for the Cameron Hanes listeners. I want to be a writer in secret. You got to do it every day. It's a practice.

• 1:40:10Cameron Hanes?

  You are a writer. Where's your book? It's back there. Oh, Bravy. Get, get.

• 1:40:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, blow my shit up, Cam.

• 1:40:17Cameron Hanes?

  Get a Lexi's book. So I guarantee people who listen to this will be like, holy shit, I want to learn more about this. This girl, she's amazing. Right there.

• 1:40:26Speaker 00

  Read Bravy.

• 1:40:27Cameron Hanes?

  Cameron seventeen.

• 1:40:28Speaker 00

  I'm reading, writing a new one right now, too. Okay, what's the next question?

• 1:40:33Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:40:34Speaker 00

  Something about being a verb and not a noun. It might be called like, I'm a verb, not a noun. Not sure.

• 1:40:40Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:40:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's about change.

• 1:40:43Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:40:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:40:44Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:40:44Speaker 00

  I'm excited. There's so much shit about my life that nobody knows.

• 1:40:47Cameron Hanes?

  Called Becoming a Hunter.

• 1:40:50Speaker 00

  What's the next question?

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  Uh, this is not really a reoccurring theme, but we've talked about it because there's a inside story. But I read somewhere that one of your kind of hobbies is you like to do improv comedy.

• 1:41:05Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 1:41:05Speaker 02

  So we want to know what your Kill Tony Minute is.

• 1:41:10Speaker 00

  I don't know what that is.

• 1:41:11Cameron Hanes?

  So Kill Tony is, uh, Tony Hitchcliff, he's a comedian.

• 1:41:15Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:41:16Cameron Hanes?

  He pulls names out of the hat and they get on stage for one minute and then they critique the, the minute. So do you have a, a minute bit you can tell us?

• 1:41:27Speaker 00

  Like I have to do a bit for you?

• 1:41:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, right now. Go.

• 1:41:29Speaker 00

  This is not a good segment for me.

• 1:41:32Cameron Hanes?

  Make us laugh.

• 1:41:34Speaker 00

  Um, okay. Uh, um, okay. Um,

• 1:41:44Speaker 00

  well, I'm, here's the thing. That's not what improv comedy is. This is sketch comedy. I'm not a sketch comedian, but I'll try.

• 1:41:51Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:41:52Speaker 00

  Um,

• 1:41:54Cameron Hanes?

  Your, your book is called Bravie, so that means you're brave.

• 1:41:58Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, I guess I'm brave. Okay. Well,

• 1:42:03Speaker 00

  I had, okay, let me just think for a second.

• 1:42:08Speaker 02

  You're a funny guy. Tell a joke.

• 1:42:09Speaker 00

  I know. It's the worst. I'm not, I'm really not that funny. I'm really not, um, uh,

• 1:42:16Speaker 00

  um,

• 1:42:18Speaker 00

  well,

• 1:42:21Speaker 00

  I, I, something about like how I didn't do any of the normal things that 20 year olds did growing up because I was training really, really hard for the Olympics. So while you were doing X, I was doing Y, meaning while you were doing ecstasy and going to Burning Man, I was at the Y MCA lifting weights.

• 1:42:50Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:42:52Speaker 00

  That's my joke. I don't want to put that on there.

• 1:42:54Cameron Hanes?

  Boom.

• 1:42:54Speaker 00

  So bad.

• 1:42:57Speaker 00

  I hate this.

• 1:42:58Cameron Hanes?

  Now that was actually, so we got, we just gotta kind of tighten it up.

• 1:43:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:43:04Cameron Hanes?

  It's not bad. I like it.

• 1:43:06Speaker 00

  While you were doing X, I was just a Y.

• 1:43:08Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:43:09Speaker 00

  Meaning while you were doing ecstasy and hanging out with your friends and sleeping around and doing normal 20 year old things, I was at the YMCA lifting weights.

• 1:43:18Cameron Hanes?

  That's good.

• 1:43:19Speaker 02

  Good.

• 1:43:20Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:43:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:43:23Speaker 00

  Horrible.

• 1:43:24Speaker 02

  All right, last one.

• 1:43:25Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 1:43:26Speaker 02

  This one's more serio- this one's more serious.

• 1:43:29Speaker 00

  Oh no, I can't be, okay, yeah, we're fine.

• 1:43:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:43:32Speaker 00

  It's like, I can't be like wearing my sponsor saying all this. This is not good.

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  Okay, we, if we have to, we can take those out. This one's a good one, I promise.

• 1:43:41Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:43:43Speaker 02

  All right, so again, we've kind of talked about, well, I mentioned it once, how people like to identify as whatever hobby they're into, or even their job.

• 1:43:51Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 1:43:51Speaker 02

  Like, I'm a runner, I'm a climber, I'm a carpenter. And you talk about depression after the Olympics and kind of finding out who you are outside of running.

• 1:43:59Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 1:44:00Speaker 02

  So how important do you think it is to know yourself at a core level without the tangible outside things?

• 1:44:06Speaker 00

  A hundred percent. You are not, I actually don't even know if I agree with you saying that you're a hunter. I think you hunt. Cause I don't even think I'm, I mean, I guess I'm a runner, I'm a writer, and na na na na. But I'm just Alexi.

• 1:44:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:22Speaker 00

  And I think you're just Cam. And you hunt. And I know it's, this is in contradiction to everything you say.

• 1:44:31Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:44:32Speaker 00

  But it helps me a lot to know that I'm Alexi. And that anything I do is just what I do. And what's nice for me is that, that means that anything I choose to do every day is a real present choice. It wasn't just like a continuation of yesterday. So if I pick up and I'm writing today, I'm not writing because I'm a writer. I'm writing because I write.

• 1:44:56Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:44:58Speaker 00

  And so, um.

• 1:45:00Cameron Hanes?

  But I don't do, I don't do anything else but hunt.

• 1:45:04Speaker 00

  I, yeah, but you're still Cameron Hanes.

• 1:45:06Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:45:07Speaker 00

  Yes, you are.

• 1:45:08Cameron Hanes?

  I'm not.

• 1:45:09Speaker 00

  You are such a unique and vibrant human that is, you, you do, you do a lot more than hunt. You just don't think you do a lot more than hunt. You're like a very much more than um a one descriptor. That's a big way you spend your time and what you're thinking about, but I think you're like.

• 1:45:29Cameron Hanes?

  My podcast, you can, you can do this on your podcast.

• 1:45:32Speaker 00

  I know these people are, yeah, your audience hates me.

• 1:45:35Cameron Hanes?

  Screwing me over.

• 1:45:37Speaker 00

  Okay, well, so it's really important that people have something outside of their, the answer to the question.

• 1:45:42Cameron Hanes?

  That's a great point. That's a great point. It's just not true for me, but yes.

• 1:45:46Speaker 00

  We're not getting along anymore. Um, it's really important to, yeah, have these other.

• 1:45:52Cameron Hanes?

  This is our, hey, this is our first speed bump in our relationship.

• 1:45:56Speaker 00

  No, I, I don't even care to be right. You can be a hunter if you want. I just see you as, I see you as your name because I think that's the right thing to do as your friend. Cause what if you came to me and you're like, what if you came to me and you were challenged? Like, I need to just like embrace you as just human Cam Haynes first.

• 1:46:18Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:46:19Speaker 00

  I need to see you as like just you.

• 1:46:21Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:46:21Speaker 00

  That's the best way for, I don't know, I don't know. Oh, cause, I, cause it lets you, I think it's a kind way to let you evolve and change. Like you'll probably hunt forever, but you don't even know who you're gonna be in 10 years. And I'm sure you'll still be hunting, but.

• 1:46:36Cameron Hanes?

  I'll probably be dead. I'm so old.

• 1:46:40Speaker 00

  No, you keep saying you're old and like stupid. You have a body, you have body dysmorphia. Like, do you know what I mean? Like.

• 1:46:50Cameron Hanes?

  That's not very supportive.

• 1:46:52Speaker 00

  Oh, sorry. You have an inaccurate view of yourself. I'm, yeah. Um, I thought these quick fires were gonna be like spaghetti or meat sauce or like whatever, like blue or red or something like silly.

• 1:47:06Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, well, okay, we can switch gears then, cause I mean.

• 1:47:09Speaker 00

  Sorry. Do you wanna redo all of them?

• 1:47:11Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:47:12Speaker 00

  What's the dentist's favorite time of the day? Two thirty, two thirty. Nothing to do with me.

• 1:47:22Cameron Hanes?

  That's that. Okay, we can leave that. Well, no, we're leaving all these in. These are

• 1:47:25Speaker 00

  No, no, it's not good.

• 1:47:27Cameron Hanes?

  They're really good. So I'm gonna, since you're, since you're a hunter now.

• 1:47:33Cameron Hanes?

  I'm gonna read some comments that we got on when I was packing out your buck. And I want to get, because I don't think you understand the whole, um, hunting crowd. I'm not saying.

• 1:47:44Speaker 00

  No, I don't.

• 1:47:46Cameron Hanes?

  I'm not saying they're wrong. I'm saying they're, um, misguided maybe sometimes. Okay, so I want to get your opinion on, on a comment or a couple of comments. Let's see. This is all positive so far. Let's go. Hammers. That's good. This guy says,

• 1:48:05Cameron Hanes?

  do you field dress them first to reduce weight a little? And then somebody says, absolutely, if you're not afraid of a little blood on your back. So what they're saying is that like, I didn't gut it out. Like, remember when I took the guts out, saying I didn't do that because I was afraid of blood. What did you say to that?

• 1:48:24Speaker 00

  That you had blood all over yourself?

• 1:48:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:28Speaker 00

  And that you did gut it. And one of the reasons why you got it is because other animals can eat that.

• 1:48:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Bear, those bear that we saw, we're gonna, probably eating the guts right now.

• 1:48:39Speaker 00

  They're eating the guts. And then you, um, carried it up the steepest hill I've ever climbed on my own feet and hands.

• 1:48:48Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, well, this is another one. Somebody said, I don't know how the hell you do that. That's incredibly hard, blah, blah, blah. And somebody said, lots of breaks. Like, I took lots of breaks. Tell me about the.

• 1:48:59Speaker 00

  The breaks?

• 1:49:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:00Speaker 00

  No, the light was disappearing. There was no break at all. And in fact, you could have stopped like 400 meters earlier and pulled the car up, but you didn't want to do that.

• 1:49:14Speaker 00

  So I would have had to take many breaks, but you didn't take any.

• 1:49:19Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:49:21Cameron Hanes?

  Let's see.

• 1:49:23Speaker 00

  Oh, I'm like responding to these people factually like you also just wanna be like no like trolls are gonna be trolls. Are they, do they listen to this podcast? Cause

• 1:49:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, normally your biggest haters listen and watch everything you do.

• 1:49:39Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:49:39Cameron Hanes?

  They're obsessed. But anyway, so here's, so this guy says haters only talk shit because they can't do it. Then this other guy says, what's the purpose of carrying what you don't have to? So, and then somebody said, for views, all he cares about is views. So tell me, did I say film me so we can, and so we can get a bunch of views? Did I, did you hear me say that?

• 1:50:05Speaker 00

  Well, no, you didn't say that. But also like, can people stop like hating on people like who have like a social media presence and aren't like, like are, have a good heart? And are paying their bills and are sponsored? Like what is the, do you know what I mean? You, you do this on principle, you will carry out no matter what if there's a camera or not.

• 1:50:31Cameron Hanes?

  What, what was our option there? Do you think, could we have driven there?

• 1:50:35Speaker 00

  No, no, we actually didn't have another option. Oh yeah, they said if they don't have to, yeah, you did have to. I think people think that you have like 80 people with you at all times.

• 1:50:46Cameron Hanes?

  Maybe.

• 1:50:46Speaker 00

  Because there are some like, like really big, um, public people who do have like a like a entourage with them at all times. But I don't think an entourage could keep up with you.

• 1:51:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:01Speaker 00

  I could barely keep up with you.

• 1:51:04Cameron Hanes?

  Um, let's see, what about the tick and fleas jumping onto you now? What do you say about that?

• 1:51:10Speaker 00

  So you tried to remove as many ticks as possible. And then we had to do a full tick check in the rain.

• 1:51:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:17Speaker 00

  And then you had to do another tick check when we got back to the house before showering. And so you are running the risk of ticks.

• 1:51:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. But did we have any on us?

• 1:51:28Speaker 00

  No, we were actually, yeah, we were great.

• 1:51:30Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Um, let's see, I think there's one more here. So I should be able to find something.

• 1:51:41Cameron Hanes?

  Feel dress at first. Yes, we did feel dress it. I don't know what they expect to see, but uh, it must be nice. Uh, here we are. Check yourself for ticks. Um, no, I'm good. I'll take the meat in a pack and the head. So they're saying like I could have done something. I guess we could have broke it down there, but to me, I'm like, why? When I can just carry it, right? Um.

• 1:52:11Cameron Hanes?

  Oh yeah. This says right out of, yeah, out of the camera view is the ATV.

• 1:52:18Speaker 00

  No ATV. We were like in the middle of nowhere. There was three of us and one of them was a fairy.

• 1:52:26Cameron Hanes?

  So yeah, anyway, I wanted to, that's the kind of comments that we get sometimes, like people are just uh, yeah. So I thought since you were like, aren't, aren't in this world, you'd be, give a very honest review of, of how it went, but uh,

• 1:52:41Speaker 00

  I just, these people, I just want to give you a hug.

• 1:52:47Cameron Hanes?

  No, kicking the balls you meant.

• 1:52:50Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, isn't that what you meant?

• 1:52:52Speaker 00

  I mean, I guess like, I don't have that kind of like aggressive thoughts right now, but I like, no, cause someone, they would beat me back up. They would like, I would like,

• 1:53:02Cameron Hanes?

  You're an athlete.

• 1:53:04Speaker 00

  No, I, I, I just genuinely think that um,

• 1:53:07Cameron Hanes?

  They're idiots.

• 1:53:11Speaker 00

  Um, they're just uncomfortable.

• 1:53:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:14Speaker 00

  So if they're uncomfortable, yeah, I want them to have a good life and like,

• 1:53:18Cameron Hanes?

  Me too.

• 1:53:18Speaker 00

  And maybe take a more abundant perspective and just try and like, it's not a scarcity, like, it's, you're opening people's eyes up that they could do what you're doing too, if they feel compelled to.

• 1:53:32Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:53:33Speaker 00

  So you're not saying that you can do it and they can't.

• 1:53:36Cameron Hanes?

  I've never said that.

• 1:53:37Speaker 00

  You actually are trying to get people to kind of follow suit if, or invite them to.

• 1:53:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah, I would. It's, it's, oh, did you ever thought, okay.

• 1:53:47Speaker 00

  Here's what I have to say to you people.

• 1:53:49Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:53:50Speaker 00

  The haters are, um, they're, uh, what's the word? It's, hold on, it's um, No, no, no. It's like they're, it's not the word cliche, but it's like that. Like they're a trope, like they're being exact in their role. They're playing themselves perfectly. And it's kind of predictable and that I think is sort of lame.

• 1:54:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, cuz who wants to be predictable?

• 1:54:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like they're being a cliche.

• 1:54:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:24Speaker 00

  They're being a cliche. Do they realize that?

• 1:54:26Cameron Hanes?

  No, hell no.

• 1:54:29Cameron Hanes?

  Do you think they know what cliche means?

• 1:54:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:54:32Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:54:33Speaker 00

  I think they do. I'm not.

• 1:54:35Cameron Hanes?

  What does cliche?

• 1:54:36Speaker 00

  It means like they're, they're, they're being what we, you would think a hater would be.

• 1:54:42Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:54:43Speaker 00

  Like it's not a nuanced perspective. If a hater was actually like showing some respect or some, I don't know. I don't know. I'm trying to like, I should just give them a hug.

• 1:54:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no. I mean, I don't, it's, it's all good. I understand. It's like, as I explained to you, hunting is, you know, it's a male dominated endeavor and there's, there's egos involved and there's, everybody feels like, it's like a, well, have you heard, maybe you haven't heard of this, but it's a dick measuring contest sometimes for some people. Like they think, they think like somebody's success is a personal indictment on their, their, on them. And it has nothing to do with them. It's like, we had a great day. I had to get the buck up the hill. There's, I don't, I feel like I'm, I prepare every day to do that. That's, I told you, I said, I'm good at one thing and that's carrying heavy,

• 1:55:34Cameron Hanes?

  heavy things up a mountain. And so I'm just doing what I do. And it's like, I'm not trying to say you can't do it or you shouldn't do it, or I'm just, I'm just showing my life. I shared an amazing day with you and that's just part of it. And we, we let you in on it and cuz it was incredible. That's all. I'm not saying you have to love it or hate it, but it's not fake. I mean, there's, it was a hundred percent real every second of the day and it wasn't like, we never said anything. We didn't film hardly anything or we took a few photos, but it's like, this is just a beautiful experience. And yeah, here's a few clips from it.

• 1:56:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think if people understood that you don't have to do any of it, but you're choosing it, then they would, like, you're not a desperate person.

• 1:56:22Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:56:22Speaker 00

  So if they could just understand that, like, Cam Hanes is not desperate, then they might see all of your behaviors a little bit differently.

• 1:56:32Cameron Hanes?

  As I said, it's, it's, men are competitive and sometimes that competition elicits different emotions. I should say that.

• 1:56:42Speaker 00

  Nice. Well, um, I find that very entertaining.

• 1:56:49Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I find you entertaining, so thank you.

• 1:56:51Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thank you, Cam. And I'm sorry, I'm not a better comedian.

• 1:56:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I thought, I thought your joke was good. I liked it.

• 1:57:02Cameron Hanes?

  I liked the delivery of it, because it was like, that was, yeah, you're just, uh, I like your humility. I like your, uh, yeah, it was just, it was just fun, but.

• 1:57:15Speaker 00

  I'm not good at everything. I know you put that in there just so you guys would know I was good at this and not good at this.

• 1:57:20Cameron Hanes?

  Right, that's why we did it. Actually, that was scripted.

• 1:57:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:23Cameron Hanes?

  So you wanted, you didn't want people to be too intimidated by you, so you had to show you, like, struggling with something. Is that what, that was on purpose?

• 1:57:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, give me a joke that I can't tell. Oh, my God.

• 1:57:34Cameron Hanes?

  Well, thank you, Alexi. This was, uh, I had a great time with you. I can't wait to come down to LA and do your podcast and go on a run and, and, uh,

• 1:57:42Speaker 00

  And do the Burning Man Ultra Marathon together.

• 1:57:45Cameron Hanes?

  And do that, too. Yeah, we're gonna do it all. Um, but yeah, it's, again, thank you. Uh, this has been great and thanks for everybody for listening. Check out Alexi. Check out her book. She is one of a kind and you'll learn that once you find out more about her.

• 1:58:01Speaker 00

  Read Bravie.

• 1:58:02Cameron Hanes?

  Thank you. Keep hammering.

• 1:58:40Speaker 03

  Give me that mic set that I heard. Give me that last question I heard. That I just got, that I endured.