Pod Insights Crime Junkie MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF: The Jamison Family About this episode Bobby, Sherilynn, and 6-year-old Madyson Jamison went to the Sans Bois Mountains in southeastern Oklahoma in search of a fresh start. The family planned to live off the land in a remote, rugged area of Latimer County. But on Oct. 8, 2009, they vanished – leaving behind their truck with all their belongings inside. Their remains were found four years later, less than 3 miles from where the truck was abandoned. Now, more than a decade later, the circumstances surrounding their deaths remain a mystery.
Transcript 11,266 words · 4 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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2:17 Ashley Flowers? Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.
2:19 Speaker 01 And I'm Brett.
2:20 Ashley Flowers? And before we jump into today's episode, you guys, we have officially hit 500,000 subscribers on YouTube, which is like a very huge milestone. And if you've been here for a long time, you probably know that I started Crime Junkie believing I would always be able to be in my comfy clothes. Which, I mean, not that I'm like fully dressed up right now or anything.
2:40 Speaker 01 But there were pajamas in the early days.
2:41 Ashley Flowers? Yeah, I never imagined that we were going to be on camera every single week. And it means so much to us that so many of you show up and listen to us each and every week. And it means so much that now a lot of you are tuning in to watch every week. So if you have not subscribed to us on YouTube yet, today's episode is a great one to check out. Because this is truly a case with elements that you won't believe until you see them. And I bet that this is a story that is going to sink its hooks in you the way it has me. It's one of those where nothing makes sense. And there are so many rabbit holes and red herrings involving real-life struggles and supernatural beings
3:22 Ashley Flowers? that the lore of this story starts to become bigger than the facts of the case. But if you ask me, the hard, cold facts tell a story of a family looking for a fresh start. A family who was this close to getting it when something or someone intervened. And if that's true, then someone is getting away with murder. Because these undetermined deaths are no longer being actively worked, making me wonder if there will ever be justice for the Jamison family.
4:28 Ashley Flowers? October 17th, 2009, isn't when the Jamison story begins. But that is when everyone around them first realizes that something's wrong. Because October 17th is when the Latimer County Sheriff's Office gets a call about an abandoned pickup truck on Panola Mountain, which is a small part of the larger San Boys Mountain in Latimer County, Oklahoma. This truck had been spotted there a few days earlier, but today was the day that someone noticed a dog trapped inside the locked truck. By the time Sheriff Israel Beecham and a few of his deputies arrived, it's already dark and they have to break a window to get the small, emaciated dog out. Now, it's clear that she had been in there for days and was on the verge of, honestly,
5:12 Ashley Flowers? death, but the dog was maybe one of the least strange things found in the vehicle. According to The Oklahoman, the keys are still in the ignition, even though the car was locked. Someone's BlackBerry was left behind, along with a few coats and other items of clothing, like a purse, $32,000 in cash in a bag under the seat, and IDs belonging to Cheryl Lynn and Bobby Jamison. Then there's a seven-page letter signed by Cheryl Lynn to Bobby, who, it becomes clear, is her husband. Now, I have highlighted some of these parts, Brett, if I'm gonna have you read it.
5:52 Speaker 01 Bobby Jamison, I am writing you this letter with a spirit of truth and shame. I am asking you forgiveness for ever coming into your life for everything that I have done to you that has hurt or offended you. I also ask that you forgive me for the things that I have done to you that has offended God and the Holy Spirit. You have broken my heart and called me names like whore, bitch, and- I rebuke you and pray for your soul. You are a very toxic person. You need to find happiness. You contaminate everyone that you are around. It breaks my heart and saddened my soul that you have turned into the monster that you are. Thank God for... It kind of cuts off.
6:34 Ashley Flowers? Yeah, like the coffee.
6:34 Speaker 01 Yeah. Maybe you and me both. That with the force that you beat me on the spine, that I did not have a heart attack or being paralyzed from the neck down. You have tried to take my life on more than one occasion. I would not wish my daughter to be raised in foster care because of you being in prison for attempted murder and her mother dead. You have put me in the corner so many times that you have brought the worst out in me. There is no need to keep writing. I will pour my pain out in my own journal. Thank you for my daughter. That's all God intended to happen. We were never meant to be together. I fear for your soul. Signed, Cheryl Lynn.
7:18 Ashley Flowers? Now, Beecham and his team know very little about the Jamison family at this point. So what this letter means or why there's so much cash in the car, they don't know.
7:29 Speaker 01 I mean, all that attempted murder talk in the letter, like, that would have me scared that this is some kind of, like, family annihilator situation.
7:36 Ashley Flowers? That would be worst-case scenario, but they haven't found anything to prove that. Like, there's no letter from Bobby back to her. There's no suicide note. Though deputies have been able to piece together that it was Bobby who brought them up there. It turns out he's spoken to a realtor about some land that was for sale up there on the mountain. And the realtor said that she usually takes people to go out and, like, look at the properties because they are pretty hard to find. This is a super undeveloped rugged area, like rugged terrain. But Bobby was pretty insistent that he was gonna take his family, his wife Sherilyn and their six-year-old daughter Madison up there alone. Like if she could just give him the coordinates, they'd be fine. So she did. But that was back on October 8th.
8:20 Ashley Flowers? Now, when they look at the BlackBerry that was left behind, it has GPS and the coordinates for the land are in it. It looks like they got up there on the 8th at around 2:15 PM. But I'm not sure everything that comes after fits in with a plan for Bobby to do something to his family. Because based on the GPS, it looks like they spent a little time just kind of like walking around and exploring. I mean, they were looking at nearly 40 acres. And at one point, they actually ended up taking a photo of Madison that has become infamous in this case. The picture was taken at 2:51 PM on the 8th, and she's in front of this cluster of rocks, like in the woods. Now, it's clearly a candid photo. Her arms are like crossed, her mouth's like a little bit open,
9:04 Ashley Flowers? like maybe she was about to smile or say something or was in the middle of saying something. And this is important to me because authorities found this phone in the truck, meaning that the Jamison's had the phone with them while they were out and walking around. They know exactly where this picture was taken, but they had come back to the truck.
9:23 Speaker 01 Right.
9:24 Ashley Flowers? Even the way the truck was facing, it's on this like narrow one-lane road with a three-foot drops on either side. And it's pointed like they were about to head down the mountain.
9:35 Speaker 01 Like they were leaving.
9:36 Ashley Flowers? Yes. So what stopped them? Now, there's nothing in the immediate area around the truck that would suggest something happened to the family there. No sign of a struggle, no blood. But I will say there had been big rainstorms the last few days there that could have washed away evidence if there was any to find. Either way, all signs point to bad. And authorities need to get boots on the ground and find the Jamison's because they're already days, if not a full week, behind. And this isn't going to be an easy search. This area on the mountain, I said rugged terrain, and I do not- Not mean that lightly. This isn't a developed area with fully built homes or walking trails.
10:20 Ashley Flowers? This is middle of nowhere country. And the people who live up there are living off the grid. In fact, that was Bobby and Cheryl Lynn's plan. They were gonna buy some land and live out of a shipping container and homeschool Madison. Which honestly, when I heard this story years ago, back when I first learned about this case, like, I couldn't even wrap my head around that. Off-grid, I don't know, these days is kinda sounding more like the way to go. But like, they were excited about this plan. So over the next week or so, massive searches start getting underway to find the family. They're combing the mountain up from the base through the north side into an area called Smokestack Hollow. And not only are they dealing with the harsh environment, as it normally is,
11:03 Ashley Flowers? but those rainstorms that they had earlier make it so that they're slogging through mud and wet brush along the way. But they search and search, and there is just not so much as a sign of this family or what happened to them on the mountain. But that might be because the biggest clues are actually buried in what was happening with the Jamison's before they ever even got to the mountain.
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14:42 Ashley Flowers? Bobby and Sherilyn met around 2002, and they were married in an out-of-state wedding in 2004. But many people didn't approve. I actually spoke to a source who knew Bobby before and after Sherilyn, and they say that Bobby completely changed after getting with her. Before, they said he was smart and creative, but they watched as he seemed to slip into addiction alongside Sherilyn. Now, she had bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder, and ADHD, all of which she was prescribed meds for, though she didn't always take them. And the addiction she had to painkillers may have at least started as a way to self-medicate. Then, in 2003, Bobby suffered a bad back injury, like from a car accident,
15:27 Ashley Flowers? and so he began managing the chronic pain with pills, which was a slippery slope. Before he knew it, he was addicted to pills too. With neither of them working, money was getting tighter and tighter. Their nice lake house in Eufaula, Oklahoma, was getting tougher and tougher to afford. And their financial troubles were putting a lot of stress on an already strained marriage. It seems like Bobby and Sherilyn may have turned to lawsuits to solve some of their money problems. We know that Bobby sued the people involved in his car accident. That was resolved in 2007. And there's other documentation showing that he and Sherilyn were plaintiffs in a pair of civil suits. Then Sheriff Beecham told The Oklahoman that just before Bobby and Sherilyn disappeared, they were planning to sue the Eufaula School District,
16:12 Ashley Flowers? but he didn't know what for. I'm assuming it had something to do with Madison. People online do a lot of guessing, but the truth is that we weren't able to talk to anyone who really knows what that was about. But there is one more documented lawsuit that I found really interesting, because it was ongoing at the time that they disappeared. And the person that Bobby was suing was his own father, Bob Jamison.
16:37 Ashley Flowers? The claim started in 2008 and it all boiled down to this gas station Bob owned. Bobby claimed that he worked for his dad at the gas station for free because his dad always told him that he would give him an ownership stake of the station when he sold it. But apparently that never happened. And then it just got uglier from there. We spoke to Bobby's uncle, Jack, and he told us that Bob warned him Cheryl Lynn was quote-unquote "dangerous." And Jack took that to mean physically because Bob told him this story about her pulling a gun on someone. But she may have seemed dangerous in other ways to him too. Because I spoke to someone who said that Cheryl Lynn was spreading rumors that Bob was in the mafia. Which from Bobby's POV, made his dad the dangerous one.
17:23 Ashley Flowers? And at one point during the ongoing legal battle, he filed for a protective order against his father, claiming that he had tried to kill him on at least two occasions. Once in November 2008, when Bob allegedly hit him with a car. And again in April 2009. But I don't know what happened in that second incident. But a protective order was issued following that in May of 2009. This is just five months before the Jamison's went missing. So, maybe because of all of this going on, or in spite of it, it seems that by the end of the summer at least, Cheryl Lynn had gone off her meds and clearly the effects were having a major impact. Now she had another child, an older son from a previous marriage.
18:07 Ashley Flowers? And he told author Jake Anderson in his book, "The Vanishing at Smokestack Hollow", that Cheryl Lynn had started physically abusing him. So in August, he was removed for care and sent to live with his dad. And then in September, Cheryl Lynn attempted suicide and was hospitalized for three weeks.
18:27 Ashley Flowers? That same month, something strange started happening. The shipping container that the family planned to live in was sitting near the driveway at their lake house property. And Cheryl Lynn started spray painting it with messages. Things like, "Three cats killed to date by people in this area." And witches don't like their black cat killed.
18:48 Speaker 01 Um, did she claim to be a witch?
18:50 Ashley Flowers? So this is the thing, I've heard a lot of different things, but her friend Nikki told people that she did this because a cat of hers had died. She thought it was the neighbors and she just wanted to scare them, to like make people think that she was someone that they wouldn't want to mess with. I didn't see any sign of her actually practicing witchcraft. In fact, in the time leading up to their disappearance, there's evidence that they were gravitating to more traditional religious outlets. But still with a really dark focus. You see, inside their house, investigators found pamphlets and books about death and the end of the world. There were bibles around the house that had highlighted verses that talk about the apocalypse. Deputies learned that recently, the Jamison's started going to this Seventh Day Adventist church.
19:34 Ashley Flowers? And a month before they disappeared, they'd apparently reached out to the pastor asking for help with a really concerning problem. They said that their house was being haunted by three or four spirits. He said Cheryl Lynn told him that Madison was speaking to two children and then Cheryl Lynn's sister Marla, who had died two years earlier. And Bobby told the pastor that he was looking for some kind of like special bullets to kill demons and he was reading a satanic bible to learn how to get rid of spirits.
20:07 Speaker 01 So is Bobby like humoring Cheryl Lynn? Or is he like all in on believing this?
20:13 Ashley Flowers? It seems like he really believes it. Because as easy as it would be to write this all off as just like nonsense from someone who was off their meds, there are some weird things that I have to tell you. So we talked to Sherilyn's friend Nikki. I mentioned that earlier. And she says that they told her about the spirits too. And she says that she definitely believed that the Jamison's house was haunted. Because every time she visited them over the summer of 2008, there was just this heaviness in the house that she said made her sick to her stomach. And there was one moment in particular that really freaked her out. Nikki says that she and her husband were sitting with Sherilyn in the Jamison's living room.
20:59 Ashley Flowers? And Nikki could see this like huge gray mist floating down the stairs slowly. And she said literally the hairs on the back of her neck stood straight up. And then she just watched it until it disappeared near the bottom of the stairs.
21:18 Speaker 01 I'm sorry, like paging Russia and Ev, like, did this just turn into a so supernatural? So like, what?
21:24 Ashley Flowers? I don't know. Listen, I know people will roll their eyes, whatever. This is, these are people's own experiences. But it's really hard to write off the next thing. Which brings me all the way up to October 8th, the day that the family goes missing. Police docs show that Bobby called the realtor, whose name is Peggy, to ask about the land for sale at around 8:00 a.m. Per a written statement from her, Bobby told her that they were really interested in living off the grid. They spoke for like two hours. And in this conversation, he talked about Madison and how smart she was and how he was excited to homeschool her. And he assured Peggy that he knew what they were getting into. And she said that he sounded excited, but nothing really jumped out at her.
22:08 Ashley Flowers? It was like many of the conversations she had with people about selling land. So that call ends at 10:00 a.m. At 10:30, things get weird. The Jamison's had a surveillance system set up around their home. And when police pull the footage from that morning, it shows the family loading up their truck from like 10:30 to 11:00. Except they're not really loading much. It's like The most eerie thing, Britt. Now, there are only clips of this video that live online today. As far as I could tell, the full video that captured like multiple angles during this time has never been released. And when we tried to FOIA them, we were told that the original no longer exists.
22:51 Ashley Flowers? Because apparently, a flood at the department where it was stored ruined it. But in the little bit that was released to the media and that has survived, you can see Bobby and Cheryl Lynn walking back and forth to the truck over and over and over. But no one can figure out why. Like, the truck doors appear to be open, but it's not like they're loading it up. Most of the time, they're walking back and forth with nothing in their hands. Though, at one point, authorities say that they see Cheryl Lynn take what looks like a brown briefcase-type thing, like a bag, to the pickup truck? Now, I don't see a clear moment of that in the short clips we have.
23:33 Ashley Flowers? If it is included in what we're looking at, I'm thinking it might be right here at this moment. You can kind of see, like, I don't know if you see that, like a shadow, right? Like, on the side of Cheryl Lynn, like by her legs?
23:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:46 Ashley Flowers? But the footage is, like, isn't great quality. So, like, it's really hard to tell. Now, this video has become hugely sensationalized. Because this idea has kind of gotten perpetuated, that the way they were walking was like they were in a trance. Which makes for good TV, when you've got talk of witches and demon-killing bullets. But I'm a little reluctant to go all in on that based on what I've seen.
24:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, I can hardly tell anything from this, like, kind of really short loop of footage.
24:19 Ashley Flowers? Right, and I don't know what's been manipulated or cut.
24:22 Speaker 01 Right, or even if, like, these are consecutive?
24:24 Ashley Flowers? Right, we can't even see timestamps. So I don't know what to make of it. After a full half hour of this, that's when they set off to make the about one hour drive to the coordinates that they've been given. But they make a few stops first to go look at some other land, which suggests to me that this idea of buying the land and the reason they're going up there isn't some ruse.
24:47 Speaker 01 Right, like it's legit.
24:48 Ashley Flowers? Even more evidence of that is the fact that on their way up the mountain, they stopped at the home of this guy named Dan Clemmons. He lived on the mountain, just a quarter of a mile from where the Jamison's truck would be found. And in Dan's written statement, he said that he talked to the family for like 45 minutes before they headed up to the property. He was like telling them, you know, about what it's like to live up there, whatever.
25:09 Speaker 01 Leave the land type stuff.
25:09 Ashley Flowers? Yeah, and he told them to stop by on their way out, but he says they just never did. Now, we know they arrive at the 40-acre property at 2:15. 2:51, that photograph of Madison was taken. And then, poof, the entire family is just gone. All of their stuff just left behind. Well, all their stuff, that is, except one thing. The brown bag that authorities say Sherilyn was seen carrying to the truck in the surveillance footage is not found.
25:41 Speaker 01 I mean, do they know what was or what might have been in it?
25:46 Ashley Flowers? No, that's like, that's the question. And no one is ever gonna know for sure, because spoiler alert, to this day, that bag has never been found. But Sheriff Beecham told the Oklahoman back in the day that he thinks the bag could have had money in it. Now, how much and what was the money for? This is where we can spiral. Remember how there was like almost $32,000 under the seat, like when the car was found?
26:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, because it's like a lot of cash.
26:16 Ashley Flowers? Right, so like, that's the kind of thing that will make you think that this isn't something involving foul play, like at the hands of a stranger, right? Because like, who is gonna kill an entire family and not take the $32,000 in cash?
26:27 Speaker 01 Right.
26:28 Ashley Flowers? Well, Sheriff Beecham wouldn't return our calls, but I did catch a recent interview that he did on a podcast called "I Don't Drink Coffee", where he dives into his theory a little bit. So remember the lawsuit that Bobby filed after he was hurt in the car accident?
26:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:43 Ashley Flowers? So Bobby's mom, Starr, apparently told investigators that he got a $64,000 settlement for that, and that he and Cheryl Lynn split it down the middle.
26:53 Speaker 01 So $32,000 each.
26:55 Ashley Flowers? Correct. So, the theory that kinda gets floated is that maybe someone did make away with $32,000 or something around there.
27:05 Speaker 01 In the purse or the bag?
27:07 Ashley Flowers? They just didn't know that there was a whole second bag of money kind of hidden away in the truck.
27:12 Speaker 01 Hmm.
27:13 Ashley Flowers? Now, the only issue I have with that, though, is that is a lot of cash to just be sitting on from 2007, when that lawsuit settled, to October of 2009, especially if there really were all these substance use problems. Not that it can't be done, but, I don't know, they're having financial troubles, yet they're like just sitting on-
27:32 Speaker 01 Sitting on this, like, cash.
27:34 Ashley Flowers? For how long? Like, it's weird to me.
27:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:37 Ashley Flowers? Now, others have speculated that maybe it was drugs that was in the brown briefcase. And that's usually from the camp of people who see the surveillance footage, and they don't think that they're in a trance, but rather they think they're maybe drugged out, which is what a psychologist at the sheriff's office brought in, believed and told them. Which is just as, if not more plausible. And when you think about it, like, how this all played out, there's a half an hour between when Bobby gets off the phone with Peggy, and then when he is seen on the camera. And I say that because, like, she doesn't make any indication that he is speaking strangely, that he's sounding intoxicated.
28:12 Speaker 01 Right, like, it's a very normal conversation with her, with, like, a possible buyer.
28:17 Ashley Flowers? So I'm saying, if you're gonna say then, like, a half hour later, he's, like, in a trance, or so drugged out that he's acting weird, like, there's a short window of time where, like, something might have happened, like, after he got off the phone with her.
28:28 Speaker 01 Right, there's, like, this gap.
28:29 Ashley Flowers? Right, and he could've taken something.
28:30 Speaker 01 So, like, she doesn't know what he's, like, high or not, right?
28:35 Ashley Flowers? Like- Right, for sure, like, I mean, he could've been high functioning. I think the thing that I take issue with is there's, to me, a big difference between having an hours-long conversation with someone, and like I said, and then behaving in a way that some people would characterize it as being in a trance, right? Like, there has to be, like, something that happens-
28:53 Speaker 01 Shift between those two times.
28:54 Ashley Flowers? Right. Ghosts, is it drugs? Otherwise, like, whatever, which makes me go back to questioning even the basis of this. Like, that video, again, I'm not seeing weird movements or actions from the short clips that we have. I like, I'm kind of taking law enforcement at their word here that the way they were moving was super weird. If there is a world where their movements over the full video weren't all that weird, and this is something that has just gotten blown up over the years, then they might have been in perfectly fine condition and then nothing weird happened after the call with the realtor. They were just getting ready to leave.
29:30 Speaker 01 And I'd like to say, like, getting ready to leave with, like, a small child.
29:34 Ashley Flowers? Yes.
29:34 Speaker 01 Which is not the easiest, most clear-cut, direct thing to ever do.
29:38 Ashley Flowers? Totally fair, but, but, but usually if I'm thinking about like the stuff that like holds me up with Joe, it's like I'm...
29:44 Speaker 01 It's stuff.
29:45 Ashley Flowers? It's that, it is, it's the stuff. It's the, it's the not having stuff that I think is...
29:48 Speaker 01 Is the weirdest part of it.
29:49 Ashley Flowers? Odd, yeah. But if we are talking drugs, in Oklahoma in 2009, meth is what everyone was concerned about. Use and production was rising at the time, and locals actually told us that the northern part of these mountains in particular are known for illegal activity like drugs and dumping. So weird behavior, large amounts of cash. For a moment, even the police think maybe this whole property sale thing was a ruse and they were really going up the mountain to make some kind of drug deal. But authorities debunked this one pretty quickly because they don't find any illegal drugs in the Jamison's house or their truck.
30:31 Ashley Flowers? And they're not finding any evidence that Bobby or Cheryl Lynn were illegal drug dealers or users. It seems like everything that they were on was prescription. Though I will say Bobby's Uncle Jack told us that he thought Bobby was using something other than painkillers.
30:47 Speaker 01 But not enough for their home or truck to show signs of that.
30:51 Ashley Flowers? Right. So I don't think that it was drugs in Cheryl Lynn's bag. Now, the only other thing that might have been in the bag, the only other thing that has never been found is a 22 caliber gun that Cheryl Lynn owned. Like drugs or money, we can't confirm that she took it up the mountain with her that day. We just know that it is totally MIA. It wasn't in the home when they searched it, and it wasn't in the truck. So. Was it money? Was it a gun? Was it some combination of things in that bag? I don't know. But knowing everything you do now, you might see why many in the public start honing in on a theory. That it was actually Cheryl Lynn,
31:36 Ashley Flowers? off her meds, having recently been suicidal, that picked out this plot of land, wrote a scathing letter to her husband that she read all the way up there. And then, once they got to the right place, she enacted some kind of murder-suicide plot.
31:51 Speaker 01 Okay, but then, where are they?
31:55 Ashley Flowers? That's the big hole, right? Why can't anyone find them after weeks and then months of searching?
32:03 Speaker 01 Well, and it doesn't make sense to me, at least, why you'd leave your dog locked in the car? Like, that's a prolonged death sentence for the pop.
32:10 Ashley Flowers? Yeah.
32:11 Speaker 01 Not to get graphic, but if the dog was shot, like, that's one thing. Like, that's like, everybody then.
32:16 Ashley Flowers? No, I know exactly what you mean. Like, let the dog run free. Leave the dog at home. Or like, do a million other things. But this seems like the cruelest thing.
32:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:23 Ashley Flowers? And everyone who talked about the family said that Madison loved that dog. Like, she would not have gone anywhere without it. So it's just like another part that does not add up.
32:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:34 Ashley Flowers? Other things that don't add up to me are like, the key being in the ignition and almost all of their things being back in the car. Like, if she wanted to take her family out to the wilderness and end things, then why wouldn't the phone still be with them? Like, why not the keys? They went back to the truck. They had to have gotten in and then turned around so they were ready to go down this one-lane mountain road. Then something happened to them. Like, that, like, it doesn't fit for me.
33:03 Speaker 01 Well, that's assuming this was a murder-suicide. Like, what if that briefcase she had had the gun, had the money, and she was gonna disappear?
33:12 Ashley Flowers? Well, that would have been a plausible theory. I mean, really, for either Cheryl Lynn or Bobby. But that stops being a plausible theory in 2013. Because that's when the entire family is actually found, not too far from where their abandoned truck stood four years earlier.
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36:58 Ashley Flowers? On November 16th, 2013, this is four years after the Jamison's disappeared. A man named Tim Graham is with his wife and family on their annual hunting trip to the mountain. They were just looking for signs of deer when Tim sees something strange in the brush, about like 50 yards away from a gravel road. It looks like a turtle shell at first. I mean, it's weathered, discolored, and a little stuck to the ground. But when he picks it up, he realizes that it is a skull, and there is a small hole near the forehead. Now, Tim immediately puts it down and yells to his wife, but then he sees another one, like a slightly smaller one. And then as the family is trying to get out of there and to go tell someone what they
37:42 Ashley Flowers? found, Tim's wife spots a third, really small skull with two front teeth missing. And her mind immediately goes to the Jamison's because she remembers seeing missing persons posters for the family. Madison's toothless grin is seared in her brain. And in that moment, she says to her husband, "Oh my goodness, I believe we just found that family that was missing." And she was right. Now, there wasn't much left out there, just an arm and a leg bone, a left boot, scraps of another boot and a child's shoe, but nothing else. No briefcase, no gun. And after about seven months of analysis, in June 2014,
38:25 Ashley Flowers? they're able to confirm that they found the entire family just 2.6 miles from where their truck was found.
38:34 Speaker 01 Uh, like 2.6, like two and a half miles away?
38:37 Ashley Flowers? That's it.
38:38 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
38:39 Ashley Flowers? Which like, I know this sounds like nothing to us like flatlanded folk who like
38:43 Speaker 01 Oh, I can see five miles for ages.
38:45 Ashley Flowers? Yeah, fields and fields. But Beecham said that to go from where their truck was found to where their skulls were recovered, like as the crow flies, it would take like a half day for someone who is in great shape to hike, which makes this location all the more strange because Bobby was not in great shape. He had chronic back pain.
39:06 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
39:06 Ashley Flowers? And I don't know if you've tried hiking with a six-year-old recently, but like in this area, that would slow you way down. Most people don't think there is any way that they got to that location on their own.
39:17 Speaker 01 And this completely nixes the murder-suicide theory. Like, it has to be foul play.
39:23 Ashley Flowers? But for some reason, it like, it doesn't for some people, right? So like, let's talk theories, like, and what works and what doesn't work. So first, the murder-suicide theory. People still point to Sherilyn's mental instability and like that hate letter is what they call it, the one that was in the truck, as proof that she killed her family and herself.
39:44 Speaker 01 Okay, but if they never found a gun and they can't determine a cause of death, that seems like it takes away all of the elements that you need to make murder-suicide work.
39:53 Ashley Flowers? If it was a gun that was used and if they were shot in the head.
39:59 Speaker 01 And wasn't there a hole in Bobby's head?
40:01 Ashley Flowers? Well, yeah, but they officially say that that hole is from animal activity. But like, I'm with you, like, you could have been shot in like the fleshy parts of your body that you wouldn't see from the few pieces that they were able to collect. But even then, like, you should see bullet fragments and a gun.
40:16 Speaker 01 A gun. Left behind, but I mean, kind of going back to it, like if a gun was used, right? Like, that's not the only way it could have gone down.
40:24 Ashley Flowers? Yes and no, like, I kind of disagree because like unless mom and dad were in on this together and like quite literally drinking the Kool-Aid, you have to do something quick, like a gun. Like, I don't think you can overpower the other parent and kill Madison without being stopped. You know what I mean?
40:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:40 Ashley Flowers? And so much of what we know doesn't make sense with this to me. Like, why are the keys and the phone back in the truck? Why was the truck positioned like it was going back down the mountain? Where is the brown briefcase?
40:54 Speaker 01 Well, and, I don't know, like, what if someone came across their remains? Or the briefcase? And just never reported it, especially the briefcase, especially if the briefcase had money in it.
41:04 Ashley Flowers? Yeah, I mean, I could see that for this area, but it seems more likely to me that it would have been left in the truck and then someone rifled through that once they'd seen the truck unoccupied for a couple of days? And they just like make a quick grab for the briefcase, maybe miss the fact that there's other money under the seat. But like in that case, again, they're not like running off with stuff like where they are, where the remains are, you know what I mean?
41:26 Speaker 01 Right.
41:26 Ashley Flowers? But whatever someone taking the brown bag solves, it solves none of the other problems I have with this story. How did they get to where they were? Because I don't believe that they walked, especially if this was a plan that just one of them had. Like, okay, can you please leave your keys in the ignition, $32,000 under the seat and your GPS behind? And let's just like take a walk into the wilderness, like?
41:50 Speaker 01 Right.
41:51 Ashley Flowers? No, that is gonna raise like all sorts of alarm bells.
41:54 Speaker 01 1,000%.
41:56 Ashley Flowers? So, theory number two, misadventure. And misadventure, this idea that they like somehow got stuck out there and died, it doesn't work for me for all the same reasons above.
42:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:09 Ashley Flowers? But okay, say they were high or something. They're doing things that don't make sense. Actually, this is the only theory where the strange surveillance footage makes like even a little bit of sense or like contributes to something, I think. In every other scenario, that's the thing that is like always this weird outlier.
42:27 Speaker 01 It doesn't fit in anywhere.
42:27 Ashley Flowers? But like, okay, whatever. Say you're high, you're acting weird before you even get there. You spend your time in the mountains and you're about to leave and go down the mountain. And you're like, you know what? Nope, like let's just start walking into the great wide nowhere without our coats or a phone or anything else that we previously brought and used with us for the first time that we're exploring this place. Because remember, they did bring their BlackBerry with GPS when they were walking between 2:15 and 2:50. So like they were using their GPS before. But you know what? Let's just do it without it for the funsies. Say all that happened. Here's the thing that doesn't make sense to me. I don't think they would all die and end up in the same place. Like if that's the scenario.
43:07 Speaker 01 Right. No, because they'd have to like, the remains are all found together at the same place.
43:13 Ashley Flowers? So just they like died at the same time?
43:14 Speaker 01 In the same place. And also with this theory, I'm thinking like, that means that they're high from the time that they leave the house to the time they get to the mountain. We know that they go to a couple of different like plots of land first. They talk to a guy on the mountain for like 45 minutes before they get to their like final location. And like that, that feels like it would flat, like that would flag somewhere along the way, right?
43:34 Ashley Flowers? I would think. Again, this does not add up for me. Which brings me to theory number three, which is foul play. This is the only theory that I think works because it's the only one where most of the pieces we have fit together. The Jamison's have come to the mountain. They looked around. They'd gotten back in their truck and turned around, ready to go home. But then they were stopped somehow. Maybe it was innocent at first, or maybe there was no niceties and they were forced out of their truck with like the threat of violence. Either way, I think they get out so quickly that Bobby doesn't even pull the key out of the ignition or grab his phone and they leave their dog inside the car. Then I think they're driven.
44:19 Ashley Flowers? Somewhere else and eventually killed.
44:22 Speaker 01 Which, like you said, this is a theory that fits the most pieces, but there's still kind of this gaping hole in the theory. Like, who would know that they would be out there then?
44:34 Ashley Flowers? That is the key to everything. But it's a short list. So remember, barely anyone knew that the family was even gone. Like, they didn't, it wasn't like abnormal for them to go away for a couple of days. It's why they didn't get reported missing before their truck is found. So it's not like they checked in a lot with people or had anyone really keeping tabs on them. So really, there's only like two people close to them that authorities look at. And then people who were up on the mountain. Now, of the two people who were close to the family, there's no evidence that they actually knew where the Jamison's were headed on October 8th. But those are just the two people who might have had motives. They have to look at those people. Now, the first is Bobby's dad because of the lawsuit and the protective order. But by the time the Jamison's went missing,
45:19 Ashley Flowers? Bob's health was deteriorated. And he was actually living in like a nursing home or some kind of like hospice care. And he was so sick that he could barely take care of himself, let alone hike a mountain or hurt his son and his family. And there is no evidence that he could be tied to their disappearance in any way. So authorities rule him out pretty quick. And Bob actually passed away just two months after they all went missing in December 2009. So the second person that they look at, who had a personal connection to the family, was this guy named Kenneth Bellows. He actually lived with the family at their lake house in Eufaula over the summer. The boarding arrangement was part of his compensation for helping them with things around the house since Bobby's back pain had gotten so bad that he couldn't do much.
46:03 Ashley Flowers? But there was a huge falling out because apparently Kenneth told Sherilyn that he was a white supremacist and said that people who had Native American heritage, like she did, should die. So Sherilyn ended up shooting at him and kicking him out of the house. But in the end, Kenneth ends up providing the sheriff's office with a really solid alibi. And I don't think they could even prove that he knew where the family was going that day since he'd been kicked out weeks before and hadn't had contact with the family since. So both Dad and Kenneth cleared, which means that either leaves someone else who they knew personally, who just hasn't come up in the investigation,
46:47 Ashley Flowers? or someone who lived on the mountain. Whichever it is, there might be someone out there who has the answer. You see, Israel Beecham has retired from the sheriff's office, but in his 2020 podcast interview with the host of I Don't Drink Coffee, he said in no uncertain terms that he believes the Jamison's were murdered, and he even thinks he knows who killed them. He just had no way to prove it. And he said he thinks someone shot Bobby and Sherilyn and then just left Madison on her own to die. And when it came to why, all he would say is follow the money. And that's the thing I keep coming back to.
47:31 Ashley Flowers? Why did they have that much money in their car anyways? I mean, this wasn't like an uber wealthy couple with cash just like coming out of their ears.
47:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:39 Ashley Flowers? I think it's risky to drive around with that much money, like, you know, maybe $32,000, maybe more. That's not something you do unless you're intending to use that money.
47:49 Speaker 01 I was gonna say, without like intention, like to take it somewhere, to deposit it for it to change hands.
47:55 Ashley Flowers? And we know that they were going up there to possibly make a purchase. So who knew that they were coming up there to make a purchase? The answer is two people. One, the realtor Peggy. And two, Dan Clemmons, the local landowner. And there's something I didn't tell you about Dan. He actually claims to have seen the family on two different days. According to his statement, the Jamison family was up on the mountain the day before they got the coordinates from Peggy. Apparently, they had seen the property online and they decided to just like drive up and check it out on their own. But according to him, they had trouble finding it. So they pulled up to his place,
48:39 Ashley Flowers? likely since he was like the nearest house to, you know, where the property was, it was like a quarter mile away. were asking for directions, he says. And he says he talked to them that time for like an hour about, you know, building off grid, like herbal medicines. And he is the one who ended up giving them Peggy's number to call the next day. And he's like, listen, you contact her, come back in the morning. Cause it was like 6:00 PM by that point, like, so by the time they're on talking, it's like 7:00. It's like getting dark. He's like, it's not even safe for you to be out here exploring the mountain in the dark. So he says they leave. He says they do stop by the next day at around noon, where they speak for another 45 minutes. And then the family headed up to check out the land. Now, remember, he told them to stop back by, but he-
49:22 Speaker 01 But they never did.
49:23 Ashley Flowers? But he says they never did, right? Now, right away, this is a little off to me. Because if they are talking to him, he says they start talking around like noon. If they're talking to him till like 12:45, why does their GPS say that they make it to the land at 2:15? Where are they for the like hour and a half in between?
49:41 Speaker 01 Right.
49:42 Ashley Flowers? We're a quarter of a mile from where their truck is. And you know, were his times just off? Like, maybe. Either way, he apparently wasn't concerned when they didn't stop back by and wasn't concerned that he never heard from them again.
49:53 Speaker 01 And it's worth pointing out that if all of Dan's statements are true, like,
49:59 Speaker 01 this makes the murder-suicide theory even less plausible to me. Cause like, why not do it the day before? When like Peggy doesn't even know you're out there, right? The realtor, like, you're spending a lot of time-
50:09 Ashley Flowers? Multiple trips.
50:09 Speaker 01 Talking to people about buying this land.
50:11 Ashley Flowers? Yes.
50:12 Speaker 01 Finding the exact location, like, you don't need any of that if you just wanna-
50:16 Ashley Flowers? Go to the woods, yeah.
50:17 Speaker 01 Go to the middle of nowhere for this like murder-suicide plan.
50:20 Ashley Flowers? Totally. Everything about the circumstances makes me believe that they were up there to buy land. Planning for their future. And on October 8th, something or someone stopped them. Now, based on Peggy's statement to police, someone alerts her to the Jameson's truck being there on the 15th. This is two days before this story started. And I guess at the time, she was like, oh, no biggie, whatever. The family probably just wanted to take a second look at the land. Happens all the time. So she didn't do anything. But then, two days pass and it's the 17th at 3:00 PM, when Dan is first alerted to the truck being there. He said two people on four-wheelers stopped by his place and told him that there was this abandoned truck with a dog inside.
51:03 Ashley Flowers? And I guess he like asked some questions about the truck, specific features or whatever. And he realizes that the description sounded like the family that he had talked to. So he got worried and called Peggy. Peggy then tries the family, but she couldn't reach them. And so then Dan called a neighbor to go look at the truck with him. But by the time they go up there together, it's 5:30 PM. And that's when Dan says that he first saw the abandoned truck for himself. But he doesn't call police right away. He does his own search, looking for the family first. And Peggy is actually the one who ends up calling the deputies, who then arrive at the truck at around 7:30 PM. Here's what I find out. One, why not call the authorities yourself? Like Peggy's the one that has to do that.
51:48 Ashley Flowers? Like the second you hear about this trapped dog and you're admitting that you're making this connection to the Jamison's, like, why wait? Two, I find it super weird that he wanted to wait for a friend to go look at the truck with him.
52:02 Speaker 01 Right.
52:03 Ashley Flowers? Like, there is no context in the report for why he did this. Like, you know, maybe he didn't have a vehicle of any kind. Or maybe he wanted someone else to find it.
52:13 Speaker 01 Right. He's like creating this distance between like himself and the truck. Like, this has me wondering, like, was there any way he could have been behind the first call on the 15th? Like, hey, there's this truck up here, like, trying to get someone else to get up there then?
52:28 Ashley Flowers? I don't see evidence of that. I literally had the same thought, but that call came from another landowner in the area, who is named. So, like, if there's a world where he was behind it, he would have had to get that person to call. And again, like I said, there's no evidence that that happened. The thing I'll say, though, is like, who isn't named are the two people on the four-wheelers that apparently alerted him to the truck on the 17th.
52:47 Speaker 01 Hmm.
52:48 Ashley Flowers? From what I have, I can't tell if police ever even identified those men, if they ever talked to them to verify Dan's story. My biggest question, too, is about the long conversations they had. They talked for an hour the first day, 45 minutes the next day. So, at any point, did it come up that they would be traveling up there with cash? Did it come up that nobody would really know where they were? We couldn't reach Dan for this episode, so we couldn't ask him ourselves what those conversations were.
53:21 Speaker 01 And do we know was the truck ever processed for like prints or anything? Like, could they tell if someone else drove it? Because like, maybe there's a scenario where the family left on their own or otherwise, and someone brought the truck back to this area later.
53:35 Ashley Flowers? Yeah, so according to police docs, they did process the truck, but it doesn't go into detail about what was found. So I don't know if they got anything good. I don't know if they got anything to compare to anyone. I don't know if it was like all wiped down.
53:45 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
53:46 Ashley Flowers? And then, based on what we have, when it comes to Dan, it just says that they thoroughly checked him with quote-unquote "negative" results. But we looked into Dan Clemens ourselves when we were reporting on this case in late 2025, and we found something pretty interesting. A man with the same name and the right age was arrested in 2017 for killing a man back in 1997. Now, we haven't confirmed whether these are the same people, since Dan would not return our calls, but we showed Sherilyn's friend Nikki this guy's mugshot, and she confirmed that that is the same man she knew as Dan Clemens, who she had interactions with on the mountain while searching for the Jamisons.
54:25 Speaker 01 So this 97 homicide, like, is it similar? Do we know much about it?
54:30 Ashley Flowers? I don't know a ton. All I was able to find was that, so like I said, it happens in 97, and a man named David McLeod was found shot to death at his ranch in California. Nothing is taken from the house, but his killer took his truck and drove it up to San Francisco and must have fled or whatever, because they end up arresting this Dan Clemens guy in Oklahoma. This is where like, our story takes place. Where he'd been living under a fake name. And the Trinity Journal reported that Dan ultimately pled no contest to voluntary manslaughter and got three years in prison as part of a plea deal.
55:07 Speaker 01 I mean, okay, I assume police would have known about this at the time, though.
55:12 Ashley Flowers? I would hope so, if it was, in fact, the same Dan.
55:17 Speaker 01 The same Dan, right.
55:18 Ashley Flowers? But it's not mentioned anywhere in the reports that we've gotten. All we see when it comes to Dan is that they thoroughly- Thoroughly checked him with negative results.
55:27 Speaker 01 Which like, I still don't even know what that means, but did they thoroughly check anyone else on the mountain?
55:33 Ashley Flowers? I'm sure they talked to as many people as they could. Like, I don't know, I don't have a list of everyone, but I do know one person because we tracked her down. Her name is Anne Marie Duhon. And I specifically tracked her down because as we were reporting on this, I heard this rumor that her and her family moved off the mountain not long after the Jamison's went missing. So people were wondering if her and her husband might have been involved. And I actually found this like, you know, these are rumors now, but I found a tip in the file that someone had made about them back in 2010. But our reporter, Shar Adams, tracked Anne down, and she says that deputies did question her about the Jamison's disappearance, and she just laughed in their face, she said. She says that her and her family moved off the mountain in the fall of 2010 because they'd
56:17 Ashley Flowers? been homeschooling their children and they wanted to move the kids like back down so they could go to school. Though, that's not quite how her daughter remembers it. When I talked to her daughter, she told us that her parents were not good people and that they moved off the mountain so abruptly that they left a bunch of their stuff. But Anne was never named as a suspect, and she denies having anything to do with what happened to the Jamison's. So I'm sure there are even more stories like that. I just haven't been able to track down every person who was on the mountain, because turns out, living off the grid makes it kinda hard to find you.
56:52 Speaker 01 Off the grid is off the grid.
56:53 Ashley Flowers? Truly. Now, if anyone on the mountain did it, I have to believe the motive was money. Beecham said, "Follow the money." But to who? Like I said, he never got back to us for this episode. But Bobby's Uncle Jack really wants to know what more Beecham knows that he hasn't shared in all these years. Maybe all the pieces are there. Maybe they're just held by different people. The problem is, it doesn't seem like anyone is really investigating this. It's that weird catch-22 we often see where the ME classified these deaths as undetermined, so there is no homicide that is being investigated. All the investig-
57:35 Ashley Flowers? Files we have were from when this was a missing persons case. Now it's just in limbo, meaning that if Bobby, Sherilyn and Madison were killed by someone, that someone has gotten away with murder. But it doesn't always have to be that way. If anyone out there knows something that could change the status of this case, you can contact the Latimer County Sheriff's Office at 918-465-4013.
58:20 Ashley Flowers? You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkie.com.
58:24 Speaker 01 And you can follow us on Instagram at @crimejunkiepodcast.
58:26 Ashley Flowers? We'll be back next week with a brand new episode, but stick around because we have some good.
58:57 Speaker 01 Okay, Ashley, I have a really cool story that I'm really excited to tell you. I've always loved true crime, but I wasn't sure if a career in it was right for me. I followed the path of veterinary medicine for a while until recently getting into nursing school. I had known about Crime Junkie for a while, but this past summer started from the beginning to watch every episode through work, study sessions, car drives and cleaning the house. Crime Junkie was always there to keep me company. After some thought, I've decided I'd like to earn my nurse practitioner license and study forensic nursing. I want to be a piece of the bridge between medical and legal to help the victims get the care and justice they deserve. I find it to be a privilege to be able to give them either care and dignity before
59:39 Speaker 01 they are laid to rest, or a safe person to help them move forward in their next steps of life after being involved in a trauma. I'd specifically like to earn my Sane credentials and take care of sexual assault and rape victims, as these people may feel like they lose their voice during their battle. But my voice is loud and will be heard, and I will use it to advocate for victims. If not for Crime Junkie, I wouldn't understand how important and vital this is, and every episode provides me with motivation to keep working for this goal. Thank you, Ashley and Britt. Ella, a fellow Hoosier.
1:00:13 Ashley Flowers? Oh.
1:00:14 Speaker 01 This was like so many Crime Junkie boxes. She started in vet med and then went into nursing school. And becoming Sane certified is just really incredible, and I was so excited to hear from her.
1:00:25 Ashley Flowers? It's like, it's wild, like, keeping track of how many people have, like, changed their career paths and like...
1:00:29 Speaker 01 Unbelievable.
1:00:30 Ashley Flowers? It's so true. It's like, not always like the most glamorous work, but there's like so many different occupations that touch true crime that you like, don't often think of, like, like a forensic nurse.
1:00:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:00:41 Ashley Flowers? It's amazing.
1:00:41 Speaker 01 Yeah. So, thank you, Ella.
1:00:44 Ashley Flowers? Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production. I think Chuck would approve.
1:00:53 Speaker 03 When the nights grow longer, the shadows start to stir, and that can only mean one thing: Full Body Chills is back. This season, step inside original tales where every doorway leads somewhere darker, every stranger carries a secret, and nothing is ever quite what it seems. Each story takes you somewhere new, but be careful: you never know what might follow you home. So gather round, listen close, and stream Full Body Chills wherever you get your podcasts.
Previous MISSING: Christopher “Cole” Thomas Next SERIAL KILLER: David Meirhofer Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated