Michael Bennett Super Bowl Champion opens up about retiring from NFL worrying about his brain, Marshawn Lynch not getting ball in Super Bowl, turning passion into purpose, using his platform to influence culture, humanizing black men and architecture

"It's okay to start over, but it's not okay to complain about what it takes to start over." Michael Bennett Super Bowl Champion On this episode of The Pivot in partnership with Fanatics, we’re sitting down with Super Bowl champ and 3x Pro Bowler Michael Bennett. Building a reputation in professional sports for being unique, Bennett shares with Ryan, Channing and Fred his journey from a young man growing up in Louisiana to getting into football to his close bond with his brother to being outspoken for black men and culture to the highs and lows of winning and losing a Super Bowl....but now life looks a little different for Michael —he’s living in Hawaii with his family, traveling the world, and diving deep into architecture and design. But being able to start over took some time, as Michael shares with the guys how he struggled to step away from the game he loved so much but knew deep down his worry about his brain and fear to never walk his daughter down the isle pushed him to retire from the NFL and refocus his efforts differently. Michael talks about how much he loved every moment of the game, but ultimately made the selfless decision to say good bye to it so he could stay healthy knowing football was his passion but family is his purpose. Michael was part of some of football's toughest defensive cores in NFL history and part of building the 2013 Super Bowl Championship team in Seattle as he breaks down some of his top ranked defenses of all time and gives his thoughts on today's game. He gives his take on one of the biggest enigmas of Seattle's Super Bowl loss, which is why did Marshawn Lynch not get the ball as the game winded down with a chance to win a 2nd Super Bowl... Michael shares the inside talk of what really happened that play call and what he saw happening if Marshawn was given the ball that play. Considered a controversial career by some, Fred, Ryan and Channing commend him for always taking a stand on important issues and ask how Michael found the courage to stand up for black people, being in locker rooms where his outspokenness was often frowned upon by fans, the franchise and teammates. Michael explains how growing up him and his brother would receive punishments to read encyclopedias, so learning was always a key part of their lives. That intellectual curiosity shaped how he approached football, and his love for the X’s and O’s as He didn’t just want to be a great player; he wanted to study the game and master it. But his interests stretched way beyond the field which Michael became known for speaking out on important issues, from activism to social justice, never afraid to stand up for what he believed in or try to spread his message in creative ways not hostility, even writing a book, "Things that Make White People Uncomfortable". Since retiring from football, Michael's focused on spreading a different message: the importance of design, especially in black communities, and creating opportunities for his culture. Humanizing black men, making it okay for them to be vulnerable and emotional is one of his main goals as he explains how, as an athlete, people try to put you in a box, but for him it’s all about breaking those stereotypes. To him, intellect and emotion are just as vital as the toughness and grit it takes to make it in both the NFL and life after the game. Tap in now on YouTube to watch full episode and hit Subscribe. New episodes every Tuesday at 12pm est and Friday at 3:30pm est. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Ryan Clark?

  You gotta be, you gotta be big to wear this suit.

• 0:34Channing Crowder?

  You gotta be big to have that on.

• 0:36Ryan Clark?

  Because remember I tried to wear one like this and y'all made fun of me.

• 0:39Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, I'd kill you with it on.

• 0:40Ryan Clark?

  No, but when I wore mine.

• 0:42Channing Crowder?

  Mike too damn big. I ain't gonna say nothing about this dress.

• 0:44Ryan Clark?

  I want you to treat him the same way you treated me when I wore an outfit like that.

• 0:47Channing Crowder?

  I'm not gonna say anything about that dress, okay?

• 0:50Ryan Clark?

  Hey, I wore an outfit like this for the first anniversary show and you made fun of me the entire time. Shoes were very similar.

• 0:56Speaker 04

  You've been dressing, you got your own style now, so you making your own clothes or you?

• 1:00Ryan Clark?

  I pick them, I don't make them.

• 1:01Speaker 04

  No, they look clean.

• 1:02Ryan Clark?

  You see?

• 1:03Speaker 04

  Your own style. Preacher color.

• 1:05Ryan Clark?

  See, he can wear this. He can wear this because he's bigger. I think it looks nice on him.

• 1:09Channing Crowder?

  I ain't gonna tell him it's a shower curtain nun suit. I won't say that to him because he's too big.

• 1:13Speaker 04

  Nah, it's a myopic, man.

• 1:16Fred Taylor?

  He gonna bless us all. Lay hands on us.

• 1:30Ryan Clark?

  Welcome to the show. Michael Bennett, man, excited about this. It's the pivot part of Fanatics. Fred Taylor, Shannon Crowder, I'm Ryan Clark. Pivot fam, thank you for always pivoting with us. I mean, real simple, what are you doing now?

• 1:45Speaker 04

  A little bit of everything, I think. I went back to school for. Interior design and architecture, so it's like mostly everything I'm focused on now is design. I have my own studio practice where it's like furniture, architecture, sculpture. So I'm just a designer, you know what I'm saying?

• 2:03Ryan Clark?

  People might not know this, if you're listening or you're watching, let me say this to you. Pro Bowl player, Super Bowl champion, 12 years in the league, accomplished so much, one of the most feared rushers with the smallest shoulder pads in the history of football, just said, he went to school for, back to school for interior design and architecture. We had your brother on the show.

• 2:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:32Ryan Clark?

  You guys have forged this life and become these Renaissance men, like Big Red used to call you. And you were born in Louisiana, grew up most of your life in Houston. What was it about your upbringing, Martellus's upbringing, that made you guys so curious about things that at least for most of us weren't familiar with our culture?

• 2:58Speaker 04

  I think my dad was in the military, you know, so like, growing up, it's like we lived in a lot of different places, like, you know, growing up in California for some time, you know, we see gang violence, all types of different things. Living in Washington for a small period of time in Bremington, traveling across the US and then like spending, like I'm from a small town, like a small town called Amity, it's only like 7,000 people there and like, I'm from Bennett Road, so it's like, I grew up there and in Texas, so I seen like a lot of the world. And then growing just as an adult, you know, I'd spend a lot of my time traveling and just helping. I think for me, like seeing my grandfather, who was a preacher, my uncle was a preacher, everybody in my family was preachers and

• 3:41Speaker 04

  they were farmers and like had land, so I feel like having that upbringing and like seeing culturally the duality of the country and also in Houston, my mom being a teacher, my dad being in technology, I got to see a lot of different things and a lot of different people. And I think, you know, one of my punishments growing up was like reading the encyclopedia, you know what I'm saying? So like, you know, that was my punishment, like my mom was a teacher, so it was like... You know, like, go read the encyclopedia. And it's like, we had to write stories and like essays and different things. So like, I feel like knowledge has always been something that's been a part of my, my being. Like even as a NFL player, like, I was good because I studied the game.

• 4:22Speaker 04

  You know, I wasn't the fastest, the strongest, but like, I could tell you what was happening before it was happening because I would watch so much film, you know, and like, that's kind of always been my thing is like, the power of the brain, it's like, it's not really the, the bomb, the atom bomb that's amazing. It's the mind who made that bomb, you know, so it's like, what our mind could do is always something I, I think that's really um, amazing when you actually put it to yourself.

• 4:48Channing Crowder?

  And I, I, I believe, I'm, it's not gonna ask it the same way as I did your brother, but that weird shit is what I'mma call it, that had to be uncomfortable as a kid. Now y'all motherfuckers millionaires and what, fam. But that weird shit y'all doing, eh, when you were younger, brother, that had, you had to get teased and shit.

• 5:05Speaker 04

  No, I was never get, I tell my, when you, I feel like in, growing up in the south, it's like, if you're good at sports, people don't really like, pick on you, you know what I'm saying? Like, when we got in fights and stuff, just because it's just like, what it is, it's like, you know, you got in a fight to prove where you were, schools and stuff, but most of like, we was always good at the sport, so it was like, we was always on the varsity, you know what I'm saying? So people really didn't mess with us, like, and then we were big, like, we were brothers and like, if you fought my brother, you were fighting me. So you knew, you know, you say you wasn't gonna jump in, but it.

• 5:37Channing Crowder?

  You gotta fight thirteen foot of negroes.

• 5:40Speaker 06

  So it's a one verse two at all times.

• 5:42Speaker 04

  You see him getting a little bit better, you, there you got him, you like. Yeah, you can't, you, we, we was like, Simbi, we was, me and my brother was so close growing up, you know, it's like, my brother was my best friend and still is my best friend, so it was like, we always used to just do everything together. So nobody really kind of like, really messed with us, so it was never weird, we just always did our own thing, you know, like, if you ask any coach, like, they'll be like, nah, we, we don't, they just never really said anything, you know?

• 6:05Channing Crowder?

  Just choke the shit out of people.

• 6:07Speaker 04

  Nah, sometimes you gotta do that, every once in a while.

• 6:09Channing Crowder?

  You gotta jump out and show niggas.

• 6:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, sometimes you gotta. Talk about something, you know, like that's, that's the game, you know, like, you know, there's something about that, you know, I, I mean, I don't take no shit from nobody, like, never did, but at the same time, I respect every human, I respect every man, but like, you know, sometimes you do gotta, you know, you gotta show them, you know? But you know, when you got daughters and stuff like, you, you can't, sometimes they play you, you be like, man, you be like, bang, like, I'm like, you know how it is, I don't know, daughters do you bad. I got two of them, yeah. They be doing you bad, like, you be like, damn, this you just talk to me like that? You know, like, they're like, I don't care if you used to be in the NFL, so it's like, daughters are very, very difficult. Very humbling. Yeah, it's very humbling. Very humbling, bruh. It's very humbling.

• 6:49Fred Taylor?

  They are. You, uh, RC kinda started to allude to, you know, you being this fierce defensive guy, one of the leaders of the Legion of Boom, one of the best defenses in, in the history of the NFL. And then he mentioned the interior design. Your fans probably wouldn't even consider or think twice about you being in the interior design world and all that different stuff. But your brother, he's into that same creative space. You guys are very similar. Sometimes, I know my boys, they're all different.

• 7:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:20Fred Taylor?

  You and Martellus were pretty close. What do you credit that to, looking back at, back, back at it? Cause when we had him on the show, he was on a journey.

• 7:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:29Fred Taylor?

  He was going to China, talking about the swords and the practices, like, how do you credit that? And then what journey are, are you on?

• 7:37Speaker 04

  I think my relationship becomes from my dad. I think, you know, we, when my parents got divorced, like, my dad took me and my brother, then my mom took my sister and my two younger brothers. And so like, from then on, me and Martellus pretty much never really separated, like, play same place in middle school, high school, then we was college roommates, you know what I'm saying? The only time we ever left was not together was in the NFL. You know, so that was kind of like, the first time we ever had like, a separation, really. I think that type of like, bond, like, doing everything together, experiencing, you know, the hardships, the greatest moments, that made us super close. And I think, each one of us, I think we were always trying to figure out what was our purpose, right? I think.

• 8:19Speaker 04

  When we both retired, we were trying to figure out how to make the best impact. All we ever seen was our family and our people around us and our communities dedicate their life to something, whether it was like being coaches, whether it was being teachers, whether it was being, you know, preachers or just custodians of the youth. I think that seeing how people did that and their journey that they went through, you know, I think that's kind of where we kind of really grew. I think reading and then who we idolize is growing up. Like, you know, I looked up to Booker T., Marcus Garvey, like, people I didn't even know that existed, you know? Even now, artists like Deaster Gates, Angela Davis, like, people that are my friends, you know, and like, people that I respect.

• 9:01Speaker 04

  And so like, those are the people that we kind of like, looked at as like, you know, even athletes, it was like, Always Ali, like, you know, or John Carlos, you know, like, people who still for something and like, obviously, they had like, a purpose. It was bigger than sports. So I think for us, it was always trying to figure out that legacy and thinking about how to make a true cultural impact. And I think my brother, like, he was always focused on this idea of play and like, he wanted to create something around there. So he was like, "Black children never had the opportunity to explore themselves." Even my relationship with play, I mean, if you think about the idea and the definition of play is like, to play without reward, you know? And when I'm growing up, I'm like, as a black man or a black child, it's like, you ask

• 9:45Speaker 04

  a kid at seven years old what they want to do, they gonna say, "Oh, I'm gonna buy my momma a house," you know what I'm saying? Like, that's already putting capitalism into the way you think about play. You know, if you look at a mapping of the communities of grid and how sites are made and constructed from landscape architecture or civil architecture and engineering and design, the way the communities are designed, the access to like, grocery stores or the access to parks, it's like, all our parks, like, if you go to a black community, like, the football stadium be like, twenty million dollars, like, the rest of the community be starving, right? It's like, so like, sports, and my brother just wanted to create more things around this idea of play and kids discovering themselves through imagination.

• 10:27Speaker 04

  And my understanding of design is like, I've always been political. Like, I've never been scared to speak on what I believed in regardless of the consequences. Whether it was like police brutality or my own experiences with the police or the judicial system or dealing, having a deal, having a conversation with Roger Goodell. You know what I'm saying? But I never really stood, I believe what I believe in because that's who I am as a man, right? Purpose. And so like, that's just who we are. And I think with design, I just moved on from this political way of thinking about something in this 2D realm and thinking that my own new form of resistance is design. Like, because everything we interact in this world is through design. The streets, the forks, the knives, even the way God is the first architect, right? Architect the whole world.

• 11:10Speaker 04

  And like, we deal with design, but the difference of it is that people who design our communities have no empathy. And when you have empathetic ways of thinking about space, it becomes something more beautiful. Like, you go to a white community, like, they, the sidewalks may right, you know what I'm saying? Like, you go to our community, there ain't no sidewalks, you know what I'm saying? There ain't no access, the bus don't even stop. You know, when they thought about redlining and building freeways, that was to break up our communities and our way of thinking about our existence. But, you know, black people care about their spaces, you know, a lot of times. And you go to a community and you see that old Miss Johnson, like, she flowering, watering her grass, like, she care about her space, you know? My grandpa, grandma, they cared about where they lived at.

• 11:53Speaker 04

  And I think that sometimes when people tell you that your space doesn't have any, you know, property or doesn't have any value, you start to devalue yourself. But if you really look at it, people have always took out, extracted the most talent out of our communities and don't put it back. And when that happens, anytime you keep extracting something, it becomes empty. And sometimes the black community, we have a brain drain because now people live in these different communities and we don't go back. That's why me, even with my foundation, I invested heavily in design and thinkers for the next generation, because I know it's important to have people go to schools like RISD, have people go to school thinking about design, you know? Because it's like, we need them to design our new spaces and to think about the community and the future.

• 12:36Ryan Clark?

  Was that why, in a time where...

• 12:41Ryan Clark?

  Black athletes, black football players especially, had to take a stand. And you mentioned moving from the political realm to the design realm. But I feel like your act of public activism during the protest in the NFL, you were one of the most vocal players. You wore Black Lives Matters on your chest when you had a quarterback who said, "All lives matter." When you took that stand, though, I just, I respected it because I understood what was at risk. And I appreciate it because I also understood how important it is for us historically to have our largest figures stand for us.

• 13:26Ryan Clark?

  How much thought went into how you would play your part during that time?

• 13:31Speaker 04

  I think for me, it was just about being a human, right? I think a black man first. And like, my, my whole journey, even now, is to humanize the black man. Like, people need to see black men cry. People need to see black men think. They need to see us hug our daughters with value. But when you look back at George Floyd, what you saw at that moment was somebody who, you know, as he was passing away, he was talking about his mom, his family. Like, that was the humanizing moment. And still, at that moment, they took away that grace and that thinking of that thing, right? And I think in that time, it was like, I understood that my time in Haiti, my time in Africa, my time in Native American tribes, my time in juvenile detention centers, all the work that I was doing, you know, whether, wherever I was,

• 14:13Speaker 04

  it was like, I always saw that this hue was always being, you know, circled and suffocated in a way, right? So it was like, for me, it was like, I got this voice, and I wanted to make sure that when my daughters look back, that they know that at that moment, I was choosing them. You know, I was choosing their existence and putting that first, regardless of money and all that, right? Because it's really not about money, right? It's like, you know, I never thought that generational wealth was really, was, was really wealth. I always thought about it as love, you know what I'm saying? Like, continuously investing in the next generation and moving that out. So when we think about our roles as athletes, it's like, that's our role as humans, like, to really stand up for the things that nobody wants to say. Nobody wants to talk about the Palestinian-Israel issue.

• 14:57Speaker 04

  Nobody wants to talk about police brutality. People don't want to talk about that, right? Because as an athlete, it's a very... Distinct difference between philanthropy and activism. And I think that you wrote, you kind of go on that line like philanthropy in those situations like cancer. Everybody kind of goes through those things. It doesn't have a face. But like when you think about certain issues like women's rights, like that's a certain person or a certain person is dealing with that, like Black Lives Matter, that's a certain demographics that dealing with that. So like it takes a lot of courage for others to stand up. Like I don't think like as an athlete is really courage because we, we have so much people guarding us. But at the end of the day, it's just about the human, humanism in us, like how we see the world.

• 15:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:37Speaker 04

  I think that's really what it comes down to, you know, I know Andrew Davis always talks about like, you could build this, you could build walls or you could build bridges. And I think in this generation, we really focused on building bridges and kind of walking through that next light. It's like, we're really standing on a lot of shoulders, like, you know, we think about the people that went through slavery, like they could have stopped. You know, a lot of us would have just been like, I'm, I ain't, like, don't take me out.

• 15:58Speaker 06

  I ain't getting no lashes today, man, like.

• 16:01Speaker 04

  You saw Django, you saw Django, like, it take a lot, it's a lot of Stevens out there, you know what I'm saying? They want to keep us.

• 16:06Speaker 06

  You would have been like Samuel?

• 16:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, I would have been like Samuel. I would have been like Django, man, like.

• 16:11Channing Crowder?

  You would have put these niggas in the big house?

• 16:15Speaker 04

  Not the bad, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm in this grave right now. Not the night. Treat him, treat him like, you treat him like Carl, no. Treat him like, no, treat him like Steve, I'm not there.

• 16:28Channing Crowder?

  Well, Mike, you, you kind of brought it up where you, you don't have, you didn't want to worry about the criticism, but I know there was criticism.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  Oh, a lot of criticism.

• 16:37Channing Crowder?

  From the Asian, because you talking about the money's not the thing, but as a professional athlete, as you know, the money. I always say I don't like to count people pockets, but I count people pockets. You were making a lot of money. Your Asian was eating off of you.

• 16:50Speaker 04

  Family.

• 16:50Channing Crowder?

  Your family was eating off of you. The teens, the number of teens, they were eating off of you. So now you're throwing this distractor, you're putting this. This, this, this poison in this running machine.

• 17:02Speaker 04

  Ooh, I see what you're saying.

• 17:03Channing Crowder?

  You know what I'm saying? And I know there was a lot of pushback on that.

• 17:06Speaker 04

  No, there's a lot of pressure on, don't get me wrong. There's a lot of pressure to, to, to play under those type of constraints. But, the difference is, you gotta play good. Like, if you gonna stand up and talk like that, you gotta play good. Like, I was still making the Pro Bowl, and the rest of my teammates were still doing that. We were still playing at a high level. I think it becomes an issue when you, you do that, and then your play starts to slip. And they're like, "Look, he's being a distraction." It's like, nah, this is just a part of my blackness. That's just a part of who I am. I am black, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, so it's like, me saying this is not a distraction. This is just me being the truth. I'm still coming out here studying the game and doing what I need to do. But there is a lot of pressure, you know? Whether it was death threats, or like, even one time, you know, um, I was waiting, I was driving to work, you know, and these, these white people standing out there, these army vets, man, they got the signs. They like, "Get rid of Michael Bennett."

• 17:51Speaker 04

  You know, I'd drive by, I was in my Rolls Royce, first of all, you know, so I...

• 17:57Channing Crowder?

  Windows down?

• 17:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was back down there, they didn't think it was me, you know? I had the windows up, and they was like, I was, "Eeeehhh." Like, I rolled the window down, like, "What's up?" You know, like, "What's, how y'all feeling?" Like, I didn't come out here on no violent type thing, right? It's like, 'cause it's, sometimes it ain't about that. It's about having that conversation where people can see that, the humanity and what I'm trying to say. And that day, I didn't know those veterans or those people, but the fact that I got out, they were, they were surprised to even have that conversation. I'm just sitting on the top of the Rolls Royce, you know, like, you know, I'm not studying that. I'm sitting on top of it, right? And I'm just having this conversation with them, just because it's like, look, y'all thought I was trying to duck y'all. It's like, these kind of things, you gotta be able to have public discourse on your, your, your vision, and not use anger in a way to describe you, what you're trying to say.

• 18:40Speaker 04

  You gotta be able to hear their side, and be able to rebuttal that with a greater rebuttal, and a greater sense of, and a greater sentiment of humanity, with a sense of empathy, and show them what you're trying to say. Like, I'm not saying what you did in the military. My dad was in the military, my uncle was in the military. It's not even about the military. It's about another human, not getting the human rights, you know what I'm saying? And it's continuing that. So I think, there's always that threat of people threatening you, and like, that, like... But that day, they were, they were surprised when I got out that car. 'Cause I don't think they think I was that big, 'cause them shoulder pads make people think I'm small.

• 19:12Speaker 06

  Well, your shoulder pads sound like you're trapped.

• 19:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, they wasn't big. Chris Long used to be like, "Mike, where you going with these things?" And like, I get like, I used to, you know, the NFL, every week, you know, they start checking my pads and stuff. They're like, "Why are your pads so little?" But it's like, I played with my hands. I never really was trying to like, you know, you know, do all the, you know, it was just different. I had great technique.

• 19:32Channing Crowder?

  But did that conversation, because they obviously were mad.

• 19:36Speaker 04

  They was mad.

• 19:36Channing Crowder?

  And you said, "Get out, get..." So, you get out the car and you really talk with them?

• 19:40Speaker 04

  I talked with them.

• 19:41Channing Crowder?

  Did y'all get to a, to a place of, of comfort?

• 19:44Speaker 04

  I think we got to a place of understanding. Like, I understood their, what they were saying. Like, they have a certain view on America and what they, what they did, and they went to this war, they did that. And I had to give them the certain stink of like, "Yeah, my father did the same thing." If you want to do it from a historical, a historical point of view, like, black people always fought for the rights of America. We can go all the way back to the independence of America. We was on that front line fighting for the independence of America, but y'all left us out when y'all wrote that constitution. Y'all left that... They was writing it, and they was like, somebody was like, you know, they was writing it, and they was like, "Dog, dog, dog Hancock, make sure you do something different in that last part. We fought." We fought, we fought. In the War of 1812, we fought. In the First War with Teddy Roosevelt.

• 20:28Speaker 04

  We fought with all them, World War II. You know, we fought in Vietnam, we fought in all those wars, and they still treated us as less of a citizen when we came back. We couldn't even have access to the things that we fought for.

• 20:39Ryan Clark?

  They treated us less than human.

• 20:40Speaker 04

  Less than human. Three-fourths of a man.

• 20:42Ryan Clark?

  Three-fourths of a man.

• 20:42Fred Taylor?

  Right. I want to take a quick commercial break in this segment, because for the first time in Pivot history, we got two undrafted motherfuckers on the show, where we can split the room.

• 20:54Ryan Clark?

  We always split the room, no?

• 20:55Fred Taylor?

  We always split the room.

• 20:56Ryan Clark?

  We split the room, Super Bowl champions is how I split the room.

• 20:59Channing Crowder?

  Man, that's a... Freddie, don't split the room, because you split the room, it's ugly.

• 21:04Fred Taylor?

  Super Bowl champ, but you also both were undrafted.

• 21:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:08Fred Taylor?

  Like RC, uh, RC's the hardest worker I know.

• 21:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:11Fred Taylor?

  He's the hardest worker, got more jobs than

• 21:13Speaker 04

  He does.

• 21:14Fred Taylor?

  Anyone I know, but he gets it all done. He can always get back home and be present, and, and I admire him for that. I asked you where you are nowadays. You said in Hawaii.

• 21:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:24Fred Taylor?

  Louisiana, as you were born and raised, you went to school in Texas, you played ball in numerous places. What is it about Hawaii that you said, "I'm gonna make this home"?

• 21:35Speaker 04

  I think it was place, I think it's very rarely you go to a place where you feel peace. I think in the NFL, you have that great balance because man, you know, it's so crazy. You know how it is, man. This feels like those weeks, it's like every day the pain you go through, especially as a running back, you know, the linebacker, you gotta hit, safety you sometimes hit, you get a lot of free run, free run-throughs, but you know, the rest of us, we gotta take on blockers, you know, like, I mean, you take blockers on, on, on stretch plays or crunch plays, you know, like, yeah, like, y'all do something, but like, but, you know, the power, you gotta come through the A gap or B gap, like, you gotta get that guard and that fullback, they don't have fullbacks no more, but, but like, after all that, you wanna find a place that you feel like whole, like, right?

• 22:18Speaker 04

  I think space and time, like, filling the air, looking at, you know, what God made, it puts me in such a beautiful space to have that balance and not get overwhelmed. It's like, I knew football was my job, but my, my purpose is family and like, having that time to be in Hawaii, be in the ocean sometimes, drop my kids off. I do so much in the community, like, people, my kids, like, people all the time see me in the stores. It's just like, it's just like, you know, being there was just a perfect, perfect storm for me and balancing the NFL and like, just being able to find that simplicity back in life and that humility, I think. At heart, I'm a, I'm a, I like small towns, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't have to be in a big city, like, so, I, like I said, I, my summers were on the farm

• 23:03Speaker 04

  in Louisiana, like, no shoes, you know what I'm saying? So like, I hardly ever have shoes on, you know what I'm saying? Like, they're like, my kids, I don't even wear shoes that much, you know, so it's like, that's just me. So being in Hawaii just made a lot of sense. I remember visiting my sister-in-law there and her husband, and we went there and I was just like, man, I remember I was on that beach and like, that wind was hitting me, the ocean was smelling good, and I was like, man, this is where I'm supposed to be, you know, and it's just been like that ever since.

• 23:28Ryan Clark?

  I don't know what happens to D lineman in Hawaii. Aaron Donald said it made him propose to his old lady on the spot. He said he was in Hawaii, he said it was a good trip. He's like, we were supposed to go home after four days, and I was like, nah, I ain't going home after four days, and he said, and he fell in love, you went to Hawaii. But I do wanna ask the family aspect of it. Your wife is Polynesian.

• 23:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:52Ryan Clark?

  And I don't know if your sister-in-law lives there because she's also Polynesian, I don't know if that's what, but... To culturally, it is a lot different.

• 24:02Speaker 04

  It's a lot different.

• 24:03Ryan Clark?

  You know, you're raising your girls there. What is sort of the, the way you keep your family rooted in a lot of the things you grew up learning?

• 24:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, first of all, me and my wife been together since we was 16.

• 24:17Ryan Clark?

  She said, she said, oh, you and your brother been like that since she met y'all?

• 24:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, so me and my wife been together, like yesterday was a, a couple of days of her birthday. And we was in Japan. It's 22 years of birthdays, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's a lot of birthdays. So like, we kind of, I grew up around her family in Texas and like, you know, like seeing her brothers and sisters and her mom and like how they kind of conducted themselves as a family. Like, that was always something that I always admired. It was similar to my family. And so it was like, you know, being Hawaiian, being able to raise my family with such a a beautiful woman and a strong woman throughout my whole life that kind of like, it's like starting off poor together, like being in high school, like, and then coming to some, into some success and then also coming into, you know, family.

• 25:04Speaker 04

  And like, so it's being together there has kind of just made it super easy because Hawaii is such a loving place, it's a gathering place. Like, you go to food, you go to the beach and you don't have no food and people trying to offer you food. And like, people get offended when you don't take the food. I'd be like, look, I don't eat that much, you know? So it's like, this is like that whole idea of what, how humans kind of interact is very different. Like, there's few places where it's kind of structurally like that, where, where people admire and work together to think about it, it's the whole, like, that cool Yana, you know, that, that, the way that people think about the island and the land and the energy that comes from it.

• 25:40Speaker 07

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• 25:55Channing Crowder?

  Speaking about that with your wife being Polynesian and you being so, I was pro-black, I guess, but just, you know what I'm saying? Understanding, like you say, you Marcus Garvey and you, you, you quoting, you know, quoting all those, how does your wife? Embrace that because I play with a lot of Polynesian. His best friend is Troy Palamalu. Junior Sayow is my dog. Reagan Maluga and all those guys. Paul Solia like.

• 26:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:22Channing Crowder?

  I vibe with the Polynesians, but to have to for you to be so pro-black and you to have all that and your wife to be Polynesian. How's that dynamic?

• 26:30Speaker 04

  I didn't know she was Polynesian at first. I just thought she was Creole. I didn't know she was like, I thought she was from Louisiana. Like, I thought she was from Louisiana. From Ameeta. I didn't know what she, I just thought she was from Louisiana. When I saw her, I was like, that was just a. Light-skinned chick. Light-skinned chick or, you know, she, this is a beautiful woman. I just thought she was from, you know, Creole person or something. So I didn't know later on, I like, you know, even my, my, my grandmother, like this whole time, my, my wife been saying she been Samoan this whole time. And then my grandma, the other day, like talking about, well, you're not Mexican.

• 27:04Speaker 04

  She like, she been, you've been knowing me for 25 years. You've been to all the things here, but it, it works out good because I think we grew up in the same area. So we know, like, the whole time, we know the experiences. Like, she's been through a lot of different things. See me go through the things I've gone through. She's witnessed the world as the way through is. Like, she grew up, her family, her sisters were activists, you know? So some stuff she introduced me to, like some people, some thinkers and spaces. So it's like, it's just a good relationship to be able to bounce off that. Ideas are kind of like where we, how we see the world. I think our vision is kind of the same, you know, like how we want to see our girls be, how we would like humans to be, how we would like the world to be. I think, um, so I don't think that makes you less pro-black.

• 27:47Speaker 04

  I think there's a sense of like, that's just who I am. Like, you know what I mean? I don't think that like, but also respect her culture too. Like, I think her culture's taught me a lot too, a way to understand in the world from a different perspective. I think we all kind of deal with that, right? I think there's a sense that we have to learn from others to, to better ourselves through the next ways of thinking for the next generation. Because a lot of times we get to this, you know, America's so different. We live in is like, you go to any other culture or any other country, it's a monolithic type of society where you go to Japan, it's just Japanese people. You go to India, it's just, you know, in America, you dealing with so, so diverse. It's like, so anyway, we, our kids got to understand diversity because if they don't. And then they gonna be kinda stuck in the past.

• 28:31Speaker 04

  And I'm not saying that you gotta respect others around you. It's like, just because somebody is Hispanic doesn't make them less than you. It's like, it's like, when we get to that world and understand people, we see, we see the human in them. You know what I'm saying? Like, you have dinner with somebody, like, is, you know, that's from Mexico, or you, hey, go to your friends that's from China. And you're like, man, like, we do a lot of similar things. It's like, the only thing's different is the culture and the language. But at the end of the day, it's kinda like, there's something human about us.

• 28:55Ryan Clark?

  Michael, you do realize, like, not all black people have friends that's from China.

• 28:59Speaker 04

  They don't?

• 29:00Ryan Clark?

  No. Like, you were just talking, you were like, yeah, you was like, hey, me and my- Y'all don't have friends from China? Hey, you, he was like- I was surprised, Tim. Yeah, he was like, he was like, yeah, you know, he was like, my wife's birthday was the other day, we were in Japan. And then he's like, you know, you chilling with your friend? You know, I got some friends that are Mexican, they not really from Mexico, you know what I mean? They're like, they're like-

• 29:20Speaker 04

  But I think that's what makes America different, right? I think that's what makes America different. I'm not gonna say great, cuz the last black man that said, "Make it great," it went the wrong way. You know what I'm saying? So, but I'm gonna say, that's what makes America interesting, right? It's like that, that everybody's from a diasporic lens, you know? You know, we all dealing with, we all descendants of another place, but we found this home that we call America. Like, we share, like, cultural things, like, you know, there's always crumbs of the past that kinda exist. You know, whether it's like, you eating gumbo and you realize that gumbo's actually an African dish. Or you're looking at the way that people wear their dreads, and that is representative of a place in Africa. You know what I'm saying? Like, so we all dealing with that, and it's like, that's what kinda makes America interesting. Because we all kinda floating and finding those crumbs in a way of thinking.

• 30:04Fred Taylor?

  You wrote a book titled, "Things That Make White People Uncomfortable."

• 30:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:09Fred Taylor?

  What state of mind were you in at the time that led to it? And what are some of your top things that makes white people uncomfortable?

• 30:19Speaker 04

  You know, I was like, Dick Gregory was somebody I really liked. Imagined, you know, or looked up to that somebody that, you know, I never met, but respected his body of work. And when he wrote his book, you know, he had a title that was jarring and people would gravitate towards him. And I think, when I think, when I think about things that make white people uncomfortable, I was just kind of thinking like, what is it that I think what makes them uncomfortable? I know y'all got some white audience too.

• 30:46Ryan Clark?

  But I think honestly, before you continue, this is why it's an important question to answer though, why I want to hear the answer too, like no bull crap. Like, that's important because a lot of times the things that make them uncomfortable can be the things that keep us from getting jobs, can be the things that keep us from getting in to certain rooms. And on the far end, they could also be the things that get us killed.

• 31:10Speaker 04

  Ooh, yeah.

• 31:11Ryan Clark?

  And so I do believe that, like, I'm very interested in this conversation.

• 31:14Fred Taylor?

  It's teachable moments, as RC stating for both ends of the spectrum. I asked it jokingly.

• 31:20Speaker 04

  No, it's a dope question because it's an issue.

• 31:23Fred Taylor?

  On our platform, it's certainly more so teachable moments.

• 31:26Speaker 04

  Well, because it's like, you know, some, simple as reading, like, you know, reading, like, you know, a coach could see you reading, right, and think that you're not serious because you, you, you are receiving knowledge that's quite different from what he thinks is the most important thing in your life. Like, yeah, the game is important, but also achieving knowledge. I think things that make white people uncomfortable is that educational moment where a black man or a black woman stands firm in their beliefs and stands firm in the way that they see the world. Because as an athlete, I think people want you to speak a certain way, do a certain thing. The moment you go outside of that is when you get chastised. It's like, that's when it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Not even, I think that's kind of the things that I was thinking about, the humor of it.

• 32:07Speaker 04

  I think, um, family, like, all these different kind of structural things that are. Human that they kind of like don't want to see us do like when I talk about the vulnerability. I think that makes white people uncomfortable seeing black people vulnerable. You know, you go back to when T O was crying. It's like he really cared about the gay. I don't know if he was, you know, if he was being, I don't know T O like that. But like seeing him cry up there, people were like, why are you crying? But but that's him being vulnerable. Like, nobody could see us having those moments. I think that's like the vulnerability, you know, the knowledge, love. Those kind of things can make them very uncomfortable because seeing us in another form. It's like that's what really kind of gets to the meat of it. It's like seeing us grow in those things, like in our business acronyms, like how we doing things.

• 32:52Speaker 04

  It's like you leave that, you change the world, like y'all change scenes and people couldn't see y'all being something different. But it's like that was y'all vision. Like that makes people uncomfortable to see you make decisions and believe in those decisions. So a lot of it is if some of it is human, it's like being able to have those true views on those things. But not just views that don't have educational points, you know what I'm saying? Because sometimes you can speak without knowledge and you sound foolish. But like when you speak with the knowledge and you also speak with a sense of like understanding, understanding and discernment. It changes the whole conversation. So those kind of things I think will really make white people uncomfortable. It's like the humanistic side of black people. I think in 2020, I think people start to see us as human a lot different, right?

• 33:34Speaker 04

  It's like, like what's really different from 1960 to now, right? You know, there's some technologies that's different. But a lot of things that we suffer from are the same things that we're suffering to before. Hunger, homelessness, you know, all these things are still existing while Elon Musk is talking about going to the moon. They ain't put no niggas on the moon.

• 33:53Speaker 04

  Gil Scott-Heron said that, you know what I'm saying? Like, they ain't put it there. Why are you going to the moon? Like, it's like, but it's still meantime, we still trying to figure out how to maintain earth, you know? And so, I don't know.

• 34:04Channing Crowder?

  A lot of times, I always say when people, people talk to you. It upsets me and I have to get over it when they meet you, the way you look and honestly, the way I look and the way we look just being black and you talk to them and then when they say, "Oh..."

• 34:20Speaker 04

  You're so articulate.

• 34:22Channing Crowder?

  "Oh, you're a smart guy." And I'd be like, "What in the fuck did you think before you talked to me?"

• 34:27Speaker 04

  Nooo.

• 34:28Channing Crowder?

  But that, does that get to you? Because I ain't gonna say like, you and your brother, y'all apparel shit is crazy. But y'all do, y'all are big dudes, y'all have a different look. And then when you talk, even to me as a black man, knowing you and your brother, we've spoken in the past. And I'm like, and I'd be like, "Damn, them dudes are smart as shit." But for the white people to see you, do you enjoy swinging, changing people's minds?

• 34:53Speaker 04

  I mean, I always say like, for me, I like, it's never like, if, like I do poetry and spoken word, it's like, it's never really about, you know, streams, it's really about streams of consciousness, right? It's like, kind of changing the way that people see us and like, the landscape. Not for the fact of like, not doing it for white people, but doing it for young black men to see what black men look like, like, we love our kids, like, we take care of our family, like, what y'all do here every day, how y'all talk to y'all son, I see y'all hugging y'all sons, I see y'all kissing y'all sons, I see y'all being men, like, that's, that's the, really the intellectual side that people don't see. And I think that's like, that's a different type of intellectualism, that's emotional intellectualism. Like, that's hard for people to like, take in, you know?

• 35:35Speaker 04

  So like, I think sometimes like, yeah, I, I, they always say, my wife get offended when people say that, you know? Like, I'm like, I go to universities and talk, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm all over the world doing design and thinking, writing, you know, doing all this stuff. And people kind of like, they all kind of taken back, but I think, like you said, people don't want to see us because we look different, like, what they consider success and what the mode for success is a lot different. Like, just because you got Air Force Ones on, that don't mean you less of an intellectual person. And I think even like, when you talk about black quarterbacks in the NFL, like, they just look different. They not gonna look like Kirk Cousins, you know? They not gonna look like they just came out of Walmart, section 125, you know, with the Spurries and that. Like, they gonna have on Chrome Hearts, you know what I'm saying? They gonna do, they gonna do they thing, you know? That's just, that's, but that don't make them less smart.

• 36:20Speaker 04

  I think people had to get over that, right? Because they speak differently, how they articulate. I think even if you think about rap culture, like, people used to think, you know, Jay, like Jay-Z, my favorite rapper, and, you know... And people used to think that people in the South didn't have nothing to say, but they couldn't understand our lingo, you know what I'm saying? Because our lingo is different, but it's still a different struggle. And these are some of the most intellectual people that you could possibly meet. We talk about Android 3000, you talk about Pimp C, Bomb B, Scarface. Like, their stories that they were telling was like the real reality of what black culture is in that South, you know? So, those are a lot different when you think about that.

• 36:53Speaker 08

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• 37:23Fred Taylor?

  So, I want to ask you really quick, because you said Jay-Z is your favorite rapper. We all know Hov is legendary to go, but the other Carter, Lil Wayne.

• 37:33Speaker 04

  Oh, that Carter? I thought you were talking about Beyonce.

• 37:35Fred Taylor?

  Carter, Carter.

• 37:36Speaker 04

  Lil Wayne Carter, really?

• 37:37Fred Taylor?

  Carter, right. So, you got your favorite-

• 37:39Speaker 04

  I thought Beyonce's Carter, too? Sorry, sorry.

• 37:41Fred Taylor?

  Beyonce's last name is Carter.

• 37:42Speaker 04

  Does she ever use Carter?

• 37:43Fred Taylor?

  By the last name Carter.

• 37:44Speaker 04

  No, I'm sorry.

• 37:45Fred Taylor?

  You got your favorite rapper, and then you a Louisiana boy. You got another GOAT from the South, from your state, and Lil Wayne. How did you feel when you heard the announcement that Weezy wasn't gonna perform at the Super Bowl?

• 38:03Speaker 04

  I understood it, because I think Kendrick is just very rare. You know, I text Ryan today, and I said, "Man, ain't nobody work this hard. I ain't seen a man work this hard to show business, James Brown." You know, like, you know, when you think about Kendrick and the ability for him to, like, articulate his messages through different forms and narratives and mediums, whether it's the way that, you know, way he speaks, or the way he thinks about set design, or the way he thinks about a whole concert, it's completely different. It's not even rap at the moment. It's like, there's people that are rappers- It's true entertainment. It's entertainment. It's just like, there's some people who- Actors, you know, like, but like, you know, Will Smith, he like, he jumped past that, you know, Sidney Poitier, they jumped past that. It's like, they're just creatives in the moment, you know,

• 38:48Speaker 04

  like, he in there writing the script, he in there doing it, like Christopher, you know, there's just people that do things differently. And I think like, I still, like, I grew up listening to Lil Wayne. My first CD that my mama broke was, was The Block is Hot, you know what I'm saying? She's like, "What you listen to?" "My, I'm listening to that, yeah, that's the Lord," you know what I'm saying?

• 39:06Speaker 04

  I gotta get another one, you know, so it's like, at the end of the day, like, I can understand why they would, you know, why, you know what I'm saying? But I think it's important that Lil Wayne gets an opportunity to be a part of this show, or be a part of it, and, and, you know, that's just how things go. People choose those type of, uh, we don't have a kind of choice in that. But I think Lil Wayne is still one of the greatest rappers of all time. Right. I don't think it makes him less of a performer, or less of a man, because nobody's really put out as much a body of work as he put out over this long span. Like, for him to be a part of 2004, and still be a part of 2024, that says about his longevity and his creativity, his ability to keep speaking and like, keep thinking of narratives and perspectives. So I think, you know, it's different, you know, so I, I, I understand it. Right, for sure.

• 39:51Ryan Clark?

  Jalen Brown took an extreme amount of heat, Boston Celtics, uh, for, for being intelligent coming out of Cal. And there was talk that people shouldn't draft him as high because of how smart he was.

• 40:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:07Ryan Clark?

  And the question always comes up, when people have a ton of different interests, who are also athletes, do they love the sport that they play? How much did you actually love football?

• 40:22Speaker 04

  Oh man, I love football. I still love football. Like, I remember like, forcing myself to retire, you know, I remember like, being there and there with the Cowboys, and like, I was like, the only way I could really retire is if I stand up in front of this defense right now. And I respect Sean Lee so much, you know, I mean, like, like, Sean Lee was one of the best players I ever played with. Even the time I got there, the person acknowledging the rest of the D-line and everybody, like, being there, I was like, I got up and I was like, I'mma retire after this last game, you know what I'm saying? Like, I was crying, but other people were crying too because I didn't realize that also like what I kinda meant to other people that play sports and how they looked up to me.

• 40:59Ryan Clark?

  What did it take to get up and say you're retiring to the team?

• 41:03Speaker 04

  It took a lot. It was just like, I didn't think I was really gonna do it because it's like even when I said I was retiring, they kept calling. And like, it was like, you coming out, you gonna play, you gonna play? Like, I had contracts, you know what I'm saying? But I was just kinda like, nah, I gotta stick to it. It's like, because I was really worried about my brain. Like, not in a sense, I was like, you know, I was always like thinking like, I didn't want to give my family a broken man. Like, I didn't really want to like give my kids, like I want, like my biggest dream, my biggest goal is to be able to walk my daughters down the aisle. You know, to be able to kiss them, to be able to have that conversation with them at an intellectual level. It's like, I wanted to protect my brain. Like, I wanted, don't get me wrong, the athlete in me wants to continue to go, go, continue to play.

• 41:42Speaker 04

  Like, I saw you on ESPN one, the other day talking about like concussions or something like, you know, like as a player like that, the coaches already know that we gonna play through that. They just gotta tee it up, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Like, they just gotta tee you up a little bit. I remember like, when I was in Tampa Bay, I like, before we played in the game, I was riding to a trainer to get, with a trainer to go get an x-ray. And we, and somebody ran a red light. I don't know if it was an undocumented person or not, but they, they ran, they ran a red light, boom, hit us, boom, I'm in the car. I never got in a wreck myself. I never got, I've been a driver and I never got in a wreck. But that time dude hit us and jackknocked us, boom, man, damn, my back was hurting. We was playing the Rams.

• 42:23Speaker 04

  And I remember Mark Dominick, I was in the hot tub, you know, I was in the hot tub and it was like on some mob shit, you know what I'm saying? He was like, the other people that was in there, I remember Kellen Winslow, because Kellen Winslow, I know he did, but, but, but Kellen Winslow. Like, and, and my vet was Rondé Barber. So I, I, when I went to Tampa Bay, like I, I used to idolize Rondé Barber. I was like, what, what are you doing? And I used to follow Rondé around, have conversations with Rondé, like even Albert Haynesworth. Like, those are the people that were the people that was in there, Barrett, Rue, like those type of guys were in the locker room when I was in Tampa, right? So I got there with the greats and as a child, Tampa Bay was my favorite team. I was a Warren Sapp, all those guys, like, you know, Brooks.

• 43:05Speaker 04

  Brooks, John Lynch, you know, you know, uh, just the team, like, you know, Simeon Rice, like Booger McFarland, Greg Spires. Like, that was the, like, I grew up, like, running Tampa two on Madden. Like, it was like, I was like, those were my guys. So when I first walked into there, I was in awe because this is what I always dreamed about was like being on that defense, being on that team. And like, so being in Tampa meant a lot to me because those are the men that I looked up to. Like Derrick Brooks was always around, you know what I'm saying? You know, and so like Derrick Brooks was one of the first people to tell me, like, you're like, hey, little, little, little man, you, you gonna be good. You gonna be good. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, what? Derrick Brooks said that? You know, like, Rondé was like, Mike, you know, keep going, keep practicing, keep doing this, like, watch film.

• 43:45Speaker 04

  I see Rondé watching film, like, man, something Rondé doing that, that you gotta be in there. So being in Tampa was always my thing. But so when, when Mark Dominick walked in, he snapped that finger and everybody got the, at the pool, like, you know, I'd be okay, I'm gonna tuck mine in. Everybody, you know, I'm getting up, like, man, Mark is here, man, he come to, he come to GM. He like, no, Mike, you stay. I'm like, damn, what is this?

• 44:06Speaker 04

  What is this thing this one, man? I don't know what they want. He's like, yeah, we need you to play. I'm like, but I just got in the red, you know what I'm saying? He's like, yeah, I know, but we need you to play. So I, I know like that whole idea of like, when you're an athlete, like sometimes the coaches and GM put a lot of pressure on you, you know? You know what it's like, a lot of fans don't see that. Doctor's office before the game, it'd be like, it'd be like something different in there, like, you'd be like, people be getting strapped up, you know, like to play, like, so like when GM is telling you like that, it kind of does put that, like, it's hard to go out there and like continue to play. So standing up in front of that team, I knew the amount of pain that I felt through the league. I love football. I loved everything that, every moment of it. I loved the game. I loved the preparation of it. I loved being on the field. I loved my teammates.

• 44:48Speaker 04

  I loved playing through pain. I loved doing anything for the, the, the D-line that I could possibly do. Like, it was like, whatever you need to do for the game. It was like rotate, do play this, do that. I just loved the game of football. It was something that I just loved as a kid. Like, I grew up in the backyard, like, and playing, being Alvin Harper, all these people, like, you know what I'm saying?

• 45:06Fred Taylor?

  What's that, Alvin Harper?

• 45:08Speaker 04

  Alvin Harper, like, my favorite D lineman was Alan Page, you know what I'm saying? So I'm, I love football, you know what I'm saying? Like, I, like, even today, like, I used to, I could tell you the guys playing, you know, I just loved the game. So, like, it was very hard standing up and doing that because I knew what the game meant to me and what it gave to me.

• 45:24Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 45:25Speaker 04

  It gave me a platform, it gave me what it did for my life, and what it did for the people that I met. Like, I'm always be grateful for football. Like, I don't never, I understood the, the deal that we was making, you know? It's a tragic one, but it's like a reality. It's like the choices, like, you know, I, I love watching Fred's team run the ball, like, when it was with the Jaguars, you play against them in the preseason. He never was in there, you know what I'm saying? But, like, but, like, you know. He was in there when Chan hit him in the back. Yeah, like, he wasn't in there, like, we played.

• 45:50Fred Taylor?

  He hit me dirty.

• 45:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, because we always played y'all in the preseason. We played y'all in the Dolphins and we traveled. But I loved watching every one of y'all play the game, so I, I love football, you know?

• 45:59Fred Taylor?

  I certainly appreciate your appreciation for the game. I think we all appreciate the game in the same manner. And I, just really, just stepping back, I love your passion for all things. Just hearing you here in this moment, you know, how you articulate yourself, how you talk about life, how you lean on Angela Davis, Booker T., you know, all the greats, the activists, the, the fight that you went in, especially when the black community needed you the most. They needed the players to be able to step up because they questioned whether or not they were going to support NFL football. They needed to see people like you be able to stand out and go out front and, and lead

• 46:42Fred Taylor?

  that charge and fight for them, you know, fight for the caps and all the things that weren't right in our community. So, you know, from, from my heart to yours, I appreciate that, you know, on some real shit.

• 46:53Speaker 04

  No, I appreciate that, too.

• 46:53Fred Taylor?

  You know what I'm saying? Like, on some real, real shit.

• 47:19Speaker 09

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• 47:25Fred Taylor?

  I sincerely appreciate everything you've done for our community and what you stand for. And with along your journey, I simply want to know, what I ask all our guests is throughout all of that, what's been your biggest pivot in life?

• 47:40Speaker 04

  Man, I think having humility has been my biggest pivot. I think starting over, understanding that you're not going to always be good at something. And I go back to like Ryan and me, like being undrafted players, like that's the first thing that we understood is that no meal would be promised, you know, no time would be promised, we would have to earn everything. So like retiring and going to design or whatever, wherever space I'm in, it's like that transition to like put myself like a baby. My grandpa used to always say, you can learn something from anything, you can learn something from an aunt, you can learn something from a baby. And so like getting to that humility and having that and being in those spaces and being like, I don't know how to do that. I remember being in class like, like, you know, like, we don't really use computers like that. Like, you know, you use computers for like sending an email or some shit, you know what I'm saying?

• 48:23Speaker 04

  But like, I had to have like so much humility because I was like, man, I really don't, I never used a computer like that. I had to learn how to use a computer again. You know, I'm sitting there with these students and the students like were getting like, damn, you, you got everything in, you still up in here? Like late at night, I used to be up at four o'clock in the morning, like building models. My wife would be like, go, go to sleep, you know, like, like, but I'm in there because that's what it is. It's like, that's the biggest pivot is like changing to another position and understanding that it takes growth to get to that next level. I think sometimes we want something so much, but we don't want to put in the work. I tell my daughters every day, you know, that I tell my daughter, you know, you gotta like sacrifice, you know? If you look at the Bible, like the first thing that we learned from that is that, you know, Jesus is teaching us that through, for, to reach righteousness, it comes with a certain amount of sacrifice.

• 49:08Speaker 04

  And there's a pruning in everything that we do, there's a growth that happens after, after the harvest, you know? And I think that's really what it kind of comes down to. That's the biggest pivot of me that I've learned is that like, it's okay to start over, but it's not okay to complain about what it takes to start over, you know?

• 49:25Fred Taylor?

  How'd you develop that mindset?

• 49:27Speaker 04

  I think football taught me that. I think being with, being on the Seahawks, I think you have a lot of like. Yeah, a lot of maturity that would happen between the growth. Like, I saw so many players, like, when I see what Sherm's doing, I see what Marshawn's still doing, like, I see, I was around people that wasn't scared to start over. That's why I got picked up tennis, right? It's like, I picked up a super hard sport because it was just like, it was this, what do you take discipline? What do you take the energy of being an NFL player and plugging that in? A lot of us don't know how to plug that into something. Like, we have some of the greatest attributes you could possibly have: discipline, energy, charismatic, you know what I'm saying? Like, the type of rigor, hard work. It's like, that's why y'all work the way y'all do, because it's like, you could plug that into something positive and make something beautiful.

• 50:12Speaker 04

  And I think that's something that really kind of, taking that, what you learn from football and finding the space to where that's applicable to what you thinking, you know?

• 50:19Channing Crowder?

  My daughter, my daughter will wear your ass out on the tennis court.

• 50:23Speaker 04

  No, I play her.

• 50:24Channing Crowder?

  She's 11.

• 50:25Speaker 04

  No, she can't beat me.

• 50:26Channing Crowder?

  She gonna wear your ass out.

• 50:27Speaker 04

  No, she can't, I'm sorry.

• 50:28Channing Crowder?

  Ava, Ava, we going to Hawaii.

• 50:30Speaker 04

  Y'all, come on, I'm sorry, I don't take it easy on kids. I train three times a week. I play against semi-pros and people. She go, she homeschool, she go. I believe she good, though. I believe she good, but, you know, I'm not one to kill kids' dreams, you know?

• 50:45Channing Crowder?

  Sometimes you gotta kill their dreams so they can find what's truly for them.

• 50:49Speaker 04

  Exactly. No, I'm happy, I'm happy she in tennis, though, because it's like, it's such a, it's such a disciplined sport where it requires all sense of thinking, like, you know, math, you like, you gotta think about all kinds of ways of thinking. So it must be pretty cool to watch her, like.

• 51:02Channing Crowder?

  Oh, I love it. I love every Saturday.

• 51:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

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• 51:14Speaker 01

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• 51:35Fred Taylor?

  Hey Mike, I'm sitting here with three defensive guys and I just gotta know, because he's won Super Bowls, he's played for a legendary organization, the Legion of Boom in Seattle, legendary. The best defense of all time. 02 Bucks, 2000 Ravens, 08 Steelers, 15 Seahawks.

• 51:54Speaker 04

  You can't forget about the Vikings and the Rams with Deacon Jones.

• 51:59Fred Taylor?

  No, I'm talking about what I...

• 52:01Speaker 04

  Talking about our era.

• 52:02Fred Taylor?

  What our era and what I know. If you can tell me, who are the, between those teams, who are your top five all-time defenses in our era?

• 52:12Speaker 04

  Oh man.

• 52:15Speaker 04

  Shortest Steelers, like you watched the Steelers and James Harris and Ryan Clark and Ike Taylor and Troy Polamalu, Joey Porter, Casey Hampton, you know like... You always leave out the inside back. I'm about to get to y'all. I'm about to get to y'all. You know, Lawrence Timms, all those guys like... Lawrence Timms, bro. Yeah. Little dumb stupid. Ooh, he was so good, man. And then watching the Baltimore Ravens too, right? You had Terrell Suggs, you had Ray Lewis, Eric Reid, the corners, Chris McCallister, like you had all these great players. Man, then you got the Bears, you know. You know, you watching Lance, Lance, you watching... Erlacher. Erlacher, you just watching, you know... Peanut.

• 53:00Speaker 04

  Eric Tillman, everybody out there, so... I would also say, I would say the Broncos too with DeMarcus Ware, Von Miller, Chris Harris, like that defense was pretty crazy. TJ Ward. They do nothing when we played them, but that was different. And so it's like, it's a couple of good defenses that I think. And then last year Ravens was crazy, you know, last year Ravens, that defense was crazy. So I would say those are kind of the top defenses.

• 53:25Fred Taylor?

  You ain't giving me the top five.

• 53:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, but you were naming them all. Okay, so, so, so, I know, no specific, or I would say Steelers, Bears, Seahawks, Seahawks and, because we was, we had like some... Y'all gonna get eight spots on the five? Nah nah Seahawks. Ravens.

• 53:44Speaker 04

  Ravens. And then. The Bucks, oh you got man, you can't. Tampa too. The 02 Bucks? Man, oh Tampa and yeah Tampa too. But also I gotta get, New England's kinda slept on because they didn't have like those crazy stats. But when you look at like the numbers, like as an overall defense that Bill Belichick. I gotta say that, can I put the Giants too with Lawrence Taylor and all those guys? Are they not? Nah, it's before us. Okay, but. They were doing some other stuff.

• 54:09Speaker 04

  I do, I do have a question though. Which Super Bowl do you remember the most? The one you won or the one you lost? I think the one we lost, cuz it was just so close like. And that was a hard game because it's like, you know, there was all that cultural stuff like Instagram and YouTube and TikTok wasn't even out yet. But you know like, you know, Facebook, like everybody wanna know why Marshawn didn't get the ball. Nobody knows that, like that's an enigma, like why didn't he get the ball? You don't know why he got the ball? I don't know why he didn't get the ball. Everybody thinks it was because we wanted Russell to be a superstar. I always thought Russell was gonna be a superstar anyway, right? Cuz he had the look, you know what I'm saying? He had a brand like, you know, like I remember, you know, being in the locker room and, you know, Russell would be talking about, yeah, one day I'm gonna get a jet. I'm like, man, they got a jet. Well, you got a jet, you know what I'm saying?

• 54:53Speaker 04

  So like, at the end of the day, he was always gonna be there. But I also think that nobody really knows why they didn't get the ball. Pete said it was the perfect play, you know, but at the end of the day, it was kinda like, the perfect play was always to give it to Marshawn. You know what I'm saying? Like Marshawn is considered, I mean, Adrian Peterson probably is number one and between those two in that class. But Marshawn is definitely second. It hits those two people in their backs, you know what I'm saying? And that generation of running backs. So like, I don't know why you wouldn't give it to him in that, in that time too. And I think if had he got the ball, I think we would've won three. Because even the next year, we went back and Cam Newton was, he, that's the year he went to MVP. Like we played them, we beat the Lions, I believe, and went down to Carolina.

• 55:37Speaker 04

  And like, I remember, oh man, I did sleep on the Panthers too, because they had a pretty good defense. Luke Kukue, Charles Johnson, Greg Hardy before he, you know.

• 55:47Ryan Clark?

  Thomas.

• 55:48Speaker 04

  Tom, Thomas, like, yeah, like, oh. I forgot Thomas Davis, I forgot about them, because those are, dang, they're not, oh man, I'm leaving somebody out too, man, sorry. I gotta go back, because I gotta get a 49ers, they're, they're, they're just due to.

• 56:01Ryan Clark?

  Patrick Willis?

• 56:01Speaker 04

  Patrick Willis. The Smith and the War both, bro, I remember playing in a game.

• 56:05Ryan Clark?

  Justin Smith, no gloves?

• 56:06Speaker 04

  Justin Smith, like, it's Justin Smith, man, I went to, I went on my visit to Missouri, because I just loved the way Justin Smith played the ball, played the game, like, Justin Smith and OC, like, those are two players I looked up to too, growing up, right? And it was like, Justin Smith used to play the game, I wanted to play the game like that, like, just nasty, you know?

• 56:24Ryan Clark?

  Is that why you wore that ugly number? You wore 72 because of OC human euro?

• 56:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:30Ryan Clark?

  That's crazy, both of you are both strange individuals as well. I played with OC.

• 56:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:36Ryan Clark?

  OC was so dang fast, man.

• 56:40Speaker 04

  He'd get off the ball so fast, so it was like, but I think in that game, I was mad at Russell, I was like, man, Russell. Like, I know last year you did this against Aaron Rodgers, and we, we still won the game, you threw six interceptions, and we still prompted a way to win the game, but like, Cam, I ain't gonna lie, that year Cam was like, he was a monster. He was 4,000 plus 1,000 rushing, you know what I'm saying? Like, he was hard to tackle, you know how Cam was, like, he was the first one that was really like.

• 57:05Ryan Clark?

  Cam was your size.

• 57:06Speaker 04

  Cam was bigger than me, man, I remember one time I came through clean on the sack in the end zone, I was like, man, I'm about to kill Cam, and all I saw was myself in the air, and I was like, oh, Cam gone, you know? But like, but Cam was a beast, and like, but Russell threw three interceptions, you know, but we still, they was one of the top offenses, we held them down in that second half, but the defense scored twice on us, and the defense, their defense scored twice, and then their offense scored on a rundown with Jonathan Stewart. But we could have won that game.

• 57:34Ryan Clark?

  I have a Tampa Bay question for you, though.

• 57:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 57:36Ryan Clark?

  What was young Raheem Morris like as a head coach?

• 57:40Speaker 04

  Man, I always owe everything to Raheem. Raheem is the main reason why I was in the NFL, right? Because it's like Raheem was the one that wanted me in Tampa. Like, you know, he was the one that always like, nah, this guy just started. Like, I always text Ra and be like, man, thank you. You know what I'm saying? Because without him, I don't think I would still be, you know, I would have never had the opportunities that I had. Like, he's the one that made me a starter. You know what I'm saying? Like, those people in front of me, he was like, nah, this guy right here. Like, when I came, when I got cut by Seattle and he brought me in. Like, so Raheem was, Raheem was wild a little bit, you know? Like, yeah, like, I remember, I remember I saw Raheem in a club one time. He finally let me tell the story.

• 58:20Speaker 04

  But he sent, he sent bottles to us. He said, he said, hey, I bought some bottles for you thousandaires.

• 58:29Speaker 04

  No, but Raheem was great, though, because his, his knowledge of the game, obviously, he had been there with Thomas and everybody that. When you look at that tree, Tony Dungy, all those people.

• 58:38Ryan Clark?

  Herm Edwards.

• 58:39Speaker 04

  Herm Edwards, like, he came from a beautiful, beautiful family tree. So he was very serious about the X's and O's in football. Like, he taught me so much about the game, how to think about the game, how to watch film, how to look at it. Like, Raheem was very serious about the way he worked. Even that year, the next year, when, like, we still, we won a lot of games. Like, Josh Freeman was a pretty good quarterback, you know? Like, he had some down moments, but that one year, he was pretty great. And, and with, you know, LeGarrette Blount and all those guys. And we had the, one of the best offensive lines, but, you know, it just didn't turn out very well.

• 59:07Ryan Clark?

  All right, so I'm gonna let you end it like this. Nina Simone, right? "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good. Oh, Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood." You said you felt like you lived that, right? And it was actually sampled by Wheezy later on. What's the most misunderstood thing about you?

• 59:24Speaker 04

  I think people think I'm mean. Because I look like, like, even like, my daughter's boyfriend, he thought, he thought I was mean. I was mean, though. My wife said I didn't talk to him or nothing. I just, I just isolated myself from him. You know, I had cool, cool. No, I think the biggest thing misunderstood is that...

• 59:40Speaker 04

  Oh, that's a good question. What would you say to this?

• 59:43Ryan Clark?

  Misunderstand you?

• 59:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:45Ryan Clark?

  Because you're different? You're even different from me. And you talked about things being a monolith. In this country, we are considered that. We aren't supposed to have layers. And the fact that you have all these layers, people would think those layers aren't rooted in our culture. You have a brother who's part of the samurai lifestyle. You are an interior designer, but you're also a football player. You are part comedian. You are an author. And I think all of those things to most people are just hard to understand that one human can have that many layers. And not only can he have that many layers, as different as he is from white people,

• 1:00:29Ryan Clark?

  as different as you are from Asians, you're actually as different in many of the ways you live from me, but you have the foundational principles that I have, which are family and faith and community and culture. And I think that you are the perfect example of God made us all unique, but God made us all.

• 1:00:55Speaker 04

  Yeah. Man, I appreciate that, man. I think, I think that's why I could probably say this. I think people definitely misunderstood like in the ways that I think, you know, because they can't understand why I think the way that I think. They try to get in, it's like my library, I'd never let anybody see my library, right? Because it's like the most intimate thing is how I see the world. But like, I think when I look at one book called The Moral Man by Richard Niebuhr, it's this idea about spirituality and morality. I think sometimes we as people, there's an animal side of, animalistic side of us, and then there's a moral side. We're constantly fighting for that moral battle to do the moral thing. And I think a lot of times people want to see us act on the animalistic side of us. They want to see us be angry. They want to see us be violent. They want to see us being non-caring.

• 1:01:40Speaker 04

  And I think for me, it's constantly working on the morality side of we all, what we doing. I think people misunderstand my morals, but my morals are rooted in something that's not physical, it's very spiritual. And I think that's just conditionally different than a lot of other way people see the world. Like, you know, so. That's why I appreciate what y'all doing here because it's important for people to understand the world and the type of knowledge that you guys are putting into the world and giving people the opportunity and the platform to speak. And I think that's something that we don't really see enough, the consciousness, this ability for us to have fun and joke about things, but this this ability for us to get to the root of things and how we want to see culture be moved forward. I think that's what this is all. This is brotherhood and like,

• 1:02:24Speaker 04

  we don't just leave that in the locker room. Y'all have put that into like, action. You know what I'm saying? Y'all actively live in the same type of brotherhood that we had in the field. It's like still that linked and bond of like, man, it's about team. And this team is a lot different. This team is about young black man looking at us and being like, man, we want to be like Channing. We want to be like Ryan. We want to be like Fred. So I appreciate you guys having me on.

• 1:02:47Ryan Clark?

  Man, thank you, bro. A lot of love, man. That was dope. Appreciate it, boy. Them big jokers, bro. Much love, baby. That's why they like that, though.

• 1:02:56Fred Taylor?

  Definitely love.

• 1:02:57Speaker 04

  I appreciate you, man.

• 1:02:58Ryan Clark?

  They want to make them read encyclopedias.

• 1:03:26Speaker 10

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:03:37Speaker 11

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