Roll On: Fatherhood, Face-Off & The FAR Event

Dadding. Surfing with Zuckerberg. Celebrating Ten Thousand’s glorious new FAR line with Robbie Balenger. And of course, the Adam-Brogan faceoff we’ve all been waiting for. Welcome to another hotly anticipated edition of ‘Roll On,’ wherein myself and my undefeated podcast co-pilot Adam Skolnick (and our intruding guest Brogan Graham) hone on matters of contemporaneous import, and more than anything, get a bit silly. Aside from serving as my magnanimous sidecar hype-beast, Adam Skolnick is an activist and veteran journalist best known as David Goggins’ Can’t Hurt Me, co-author. Adam writes about adventure sports, environmental issues, and civil rights for outlets such as The New York Times, Outside, ESPN, BBC, and Men’s Health. He is the author of One Breath and is currently using the ‘new dad’ excuse to avoid working on his novel. This episode unfurls in a fashion unique. We start off with the half-cocked banter you’ve come to know and love. Adam and Brogan hash out their drama. We discuss the nuances of being a new dad. And the importance of showing up for your kids and partner. We then close things out with my conversation with ultra-runner and friend of the pod Robbie Balenger, which was recorded at Ten Thousand’s live event at the Legendary Explorer’s Club in NYC, where we celebrated the launch of my Free Association Run (FAR) kit—a collection of men’s running gear. To read more click here. You can also watch listen to our exchange on YouTube. And as always, the podcast streams wild and free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Listener Stories: There’s something potent and important about your journey that others can benefit from hearing. Learning is a communal act. And this podcast is merely a conduit. I’d like you to consider sharing your journey of transformation with me, specifically how this show has helped shape it. Leave us a voicemail at (805)-421-0057 to share your story and the wisdom you’ve gleaned from the podcast, and your message could very well be aired in a future episode. Enjoy the show! Peace + Plants, Rich Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

  Eating well rarely falls apart because of one big failure. It's the daily question that wears you down, like, what am I actually going to make tonight? What's in the fridge? And it's exactly why we built the Plant Power Meal Planner. It's a personalized, plant-based meal planning program that matches you with recipes based on your taste, your allergies, your cooking skills, and how much time you actually have. You build, through this program, a balanced, nutrient-dense plan for your entire household in a few minutes. Then it generates a grocery list for you with one click that plugs right into our delivery partners. All the recipes in the program are built by dietitians with culinary training. Plus, you get your own food coach to help you problem-solve along the way.

• 0:44Rich Roll?

  It's kind of an amazing thing. For listeners of the show, all you special people, we're offering an exclusive $20 off an annual subscription right now. To get it, go to meals.richroll.com, take your quick personalization quiz, and enter promo code RICHROLL20 at checkout.

• 1:13Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. What's a good word? I know it's been an extended minute. Roll on went dark for a bit of a prolonged hiatus, but worry not. Adam and I did not break up. We are in good stead. The respite due solely to things like travel, alternative programming, other matters, scheduling and miscellaneous. But fear not, we are back, and all that pent-up excitement and anticipation will soon burst forth. So commence we shall. My name is Rich Roll. Once again, I encourage you to applaud the illusion of free will that directed you towards your predetermined destiny to absorb this content today.

• 1:55Rich Roll?

  I hope this transmission of ones and zeros find you loved in the analog world and in a grateful, open, and capacious mindset to receive because, because I am joined once again by my favorite spice lord, viceroy of Beaches, Malibu, vicar of Words Noble, humble chaplain of Wetlands and Wit Dry, the good sir Adam Skolnick. He's not a man, he's a planet. For those new, roll on is our sometimes, emphasis on sometimes, bi-weekly shuffle step, a scant from my traditional fare of evergreen conversations to get a bit silly, I think

• 2:39Rich Roll?

  it's fair to say, hone in on matters of contemporaneous import. And today, in the interest of always tweaking the format, we tweak the format so much, I'm not sure we actually have a format, Adam, do we, at this point? Everything's out the window. Nonetheless, we again do just that. So after our half-cocked banter that you've come to know and love for the second part of the show, we're going to share my conversation with ultra-runner friend and friend of the pod Robbie Balenger. That was recorded on October 9th at the Explorers Club. It was part of a live event hosted by my partners and friends at 10,000 to celebrate the launch of my kit collaboration with them, the Free Association Run or FAR collection

• 3:20Rich Roll?

  of men's running gear. Get your hands on that stuff, by the way. That also involved a group run in Central Park, but while we have that to look forward to, right now, I have Adam right here. So what say you, good sir? What's going on?

• 3:36Speaker 01

  It's come. The time has come.

• 3:39Rich Roll?

  What is happening?

• 3:41Speaker 01

  I figured we just gotta, we gotta get this going.

• 3:44Rich Roll?

  The interloper is here.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  It's gotta happen.

• 3:46Rich Roll?

  Uninvited? Hello, Brogan.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  I think this is the in-person that people are waiting to see and hear. This is a podcast, right?

• 3:54Rich Roll?

  I think people might not realize that Brogan and Adam haven't actually met in person before.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  How do we do this?

• 4:00Rich Roll?

  Do we stand?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  I would love to.

• 4:01Rich Roll?

  Do I stand? We're all like- Do we sit together?

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Let's-

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Let's sit together and let's stand up. I think if you're, can we do it?

• 4:13Speaker 01

  No, we'll save it to the-

• 4:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I'm not so sure. We'll see how it goes first before the hug might be a little premature.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  So you don't hug before the arbitration.

• 4:21Rich Roll?

  Make sure you pull that mic up.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  First of all, thanks for not inviting me again this time.

• 4:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you just can't stay away. What happened? Did you hijack a plane to get here?

• 4:30Speaker 01

  I flew nonstop from Minneapolis to Los Angeles and I got a camper van called the White Tiger from a caveman and I drove it here to the hills. And now I'm sitting with these two brilliant men and I feel like.

• 4:45Rich Roll?

  We showed up today, you're just parked out front in a van with a surfboard and a skateboard.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:50Rich Roll?

  Waiting for us to arrive.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  And, and quite frankly, you're too big to live in a van. First of all, that's a little bit messed up, but it's fine. What else did you expect though? When you didn't invite me to this show?

• 5:00Rich Roll?

  I don't know.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  It looked kinda like I was having a garage sale.

• 5:03Rich Roll?

  I mean, I threw you a bone. I let you do a couple ads. We played up the whole Brogan, Adam, you know, kind of rivalry here.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  We built the Biggie Tupac thing. And the thing is, but by giving me the ads though, it's like now I smell blood. In terms of like.

• 5:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but that was, that was intended to placate you. So you would go away happily.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, talk about macro bars and be done.

• 5:22Rich Roll?

  And Adam and I could get back to business.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  I just felt like it was a placation. What started as a joke of, I'm gonna get that guy's job. Right. We got a little bit of some rumblings from some Adam and Rich fans. Right. Which was awesome. They came to your rescue. I don't think I was serious at the beginning, but then it started to become a thing. Yeah. And then, um, we did the ads. Were you taking out that billboard? Was a bit. It was weird.

• 5:48Rich Roll?

  That was weird.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  It was, it was actually a lot cheaper than you'd think. And, um, and it's like a three for one deal. Yeah. So you got Sunset Strip. Yep. Times Square. Yep. And then what's the place? Where would you do it in Minneapolis? Downtown Minneapolis, right next to the Grand Exchange. It's actually outside the window that I work at. So it's like, when I'm feeling down, I look out and I'm like, I am gonna kill that guy's skull. And it's just, you know, it's a casual 50 foot. I mean, it was, let's just say it was a bit much. It was, but.

• 6:12Rich Roll?

  It's proving the adage of, of give an inch, take a mile because.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  But we're learning.

• 6:17Rich Roll?

  Adam's job is secure. So I don't know what your agenda is.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Alright, so go back to the timeline. I say in, uh, in the public setting, I'm gonna take that guy's job. I say I'm gonna bring that guy down. You laughed, very encouraging. There's some rumblings. Right. And then I started listening.

• 6:32Rich Roll?

  It wasn't meant to be encouraging. It was meant to be dismissive.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, go away. Dismissive laughter? Do the macro bar ad and go home.

• 6:37Rich Roll?

  I'll play it up for yucks on the podcast, but in truth.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Well, there's no threat. And then I started doing my homework. On this, on this roll on, this love, this romance.

• 6:47Adam Skolnick?

  You actually listened?

• 6:48Speaker 01

  I started listening to the show.

• 6:49Adam Skolnick?

  So, but.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  And man, it's good.

• 6:50Adam Skolnick?

  You wanted to replace me without listening.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 6:53Adam Skolnick?

  You're not the only one.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  Right, no, no, no.

• 6:56Adam Skolnick?

  We've gotten those messages too.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  I'm gonna take that guy's job. What, what does he do? You know, is he on the show? So, so then I started listening to the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 7:03Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  The roll on is incredible. I started doing some homework, Lonely Planet stuff, deep sea diving stuff, the blue hole. One, one breath, is that the book?

• 7:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, deep blue.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  I did one breath on audiobook. By the way, if you re-read, if you do an audiobook, can you say you read the book?

• 7:18Adam Skolnick?

  I think so.

• 7:19Rich Roll?

  In 2021, I think you can get away with it.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  So I read your book and, um, and I, I was, I think I started with this thing of like, I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna study this guy.

• 7:29Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  And then bring him down.

• 7:31Adam Skolnick?

  I'm gonna like occupy his flesh and then flex and he.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  And then surgically trade faces.

• 7:36Adam Skolnick?

  Oh.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Right?

• 7:37Adam Skolnick?

  That'd be a great move.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Like, what is it, Nicholas Cage?

• 7:40Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Anyway, and then the more I learned about you, I just, like, just like you, I fell in love with the guy. So now I'm here to, um, make the peace.

• 7:48Adam Skolnick?

  Well, I think we should do, we should attempt to do that.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:51Adam Skolnick?

  Can I say something really quick? It is awesome to be hip deep in the metaverse with you guys. Come on, come on. It's the first time I've been in the meta with you guys.

• 7:59Rich Roll?

  This is an analog version of the metaverse.

• 8:01Adam Skolnick?

  Oh, it is?

• 8:03Rich Roll?

  Right now, as far as we can tell.

• 8:05Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah. Did you guys catch?

• 8:07Rich Roll?

  Unless we're in a super advanced version of the metaverse.

• 8:10Adam Skolnick?

  It's the advanced one. He's going full Oculus. Did you catch Zuckerberg's presentation? Cause I, I love the way, he's so natural and authentic.

• 8:17Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 8:17Adam Skolnick?

  It's just like, I can watch him all day.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Zuckerberg, I spoke at an event at Zuckerberg's thing and he, he told me, he told his assistant.

• 8:25Rich Roll?

  His thing, that thing called Facebook.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  A global event, I spoke there, it was like the coolest thing, I was so scared, but I got off the stage and I gave him the mic. And when I got off stage, I was like, oh, that was Zuckerberg. I was so pumped to be done that I didn't even really think in the moment. So crazy, right? He's this world famous guy, who cares? But his assistant said, stick around, he wants to talk to you after the thing.

• 8:44Adam Skolnick?

  Oh.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  And I was like.

• 8:46Adam Skolnick?

  That story.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  It was about community, he wanted to talk about community.

• 8:48Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 8:49Rich Roll?

  And you wanna talk about like foiling?

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Right, or like how everyone in the surf community hates him. Anyway. Not everybody. Talk it out. Who? Well, we'll get there. Okay, fine. Anyway, and then I stuck around for his presentation. It was very natural, very organic, like you said, charismatic, brought me in. He really brings you in with those eyes. I was leaning in, but then, and then he blew me off. And then I waited through the whole thing. And then you get his cell number? His assistant goes, his assistant goes, he has to catch his flight. And I go, doesn't he have a jet? And he go, yeah. I was like, okay. Don't they leave when he says? I guess he can just say he wants to undo the idea. Yeah. I'd really love to talk to that guy. Anyway, um. Yeah. I gotta be back. Hey, I decided I don't. Yeah. One hour later, I've decided I don't anymore.

• 9:35Rich Roll?

  It wore off. That's the half-life of the Brogan experience.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  I give a good one.

• 9:39Rich Roll?

  You're all in?

• 9:40Speaker 01

  I give a good few minutes.

• 9:41Rich Roll?

  Up front, and then you're like, yeah, I've had enough.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can't wait to hear the fans' comments, the ritual comments. Yeah, we're good on this guy.

• 9:45Rich Roll?

  Less is more.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:47Rich Roll?

  Less is more.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  So anyway.

• 9:48Rich Roll?

  Adam has a rabid fan base that are very protective of him. So you are taking, you're rolling the dice and taking a risk even showing up here today.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  And now all my showmanship in the front and all my, you know, my banter, now it's kind of like, it's kind of ricocheted back because now I'm a part of the fan club. I'm a fan club of this guy, but I mean, Of course. You're awesome. I think you're awesome. I think you're awesome. I'm a fan of yours. Well, and for those, thank you. I think you're laugh-out-loud funny. How about that? I think we laugh when we talk on the phone. That's a, that's a thing.

• 10:16Rich Roll?

  Should we just go right into the therapy now?

• 10:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Let's do it.

• 10:19Rich Roll?

  I think we should do that, right? This is off to a good start, but I will moderate.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Okay, got it.

• 10:24Rich Roll?

  The commencement of this relationship. I think we have to, we have to, we have to traverse a few rocky shoals along the way.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Here we go.

• 10:33Rich Roll?

  Given that Adam does have a rabid fan base and that people are very protective of him, I'm here to say that Adam's job is very secure.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:42Rich Roll?

  I'm unclear on how I feel about you being here today, but I'm, I'm pro, I'm pro you guys getting in a room together to hash it out.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  This is a step.

• 10:51Rich Roll?

  So should we start with resentments and fears?

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Yes, let's do that.

• 10:54Rich Roll?

  And do an inventory?

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:56Rich Roll?

  Adam?

• 10:56Speaker 01

  I go first?

• 10:57Rich Roll?

  Yep.

• 10:59Adam Skolnick?

  I resent that I was managed to trace back, as many people who have defended me, there have been stone throwers who have come at me and blamed me for

• 11:12Rich Roll?

  Starting.

• 11:13Adam Skolnick?

  For being a part of this show and turning it into something it wasn't. And I've learned that you were behind it all.

• 11:21Rich Roll?

  This is a bot, like a bot farm?

• 11:24Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:24Rich Roll?

  That Brogan deployed to attack you.

• 11:28Adam Skolnick?

  From his coworking space.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 11:31Rich Roll?

  Yes.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 11:32Rich Roll?

  It all tracks back to the grain exchange.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 11:35Rich Roll?

  And you've always, you being the one guy sitting in the middle of this giant room, riding a skateboard around.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Pulling levers.

• 11:42Rich Roll?

  Controlling a farm of Russian

• 11:45Adam Skolnick?

  Right, prove he doesn't know Vlad Putin.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  I can't.

• 11:49Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 11:51Rich Roll?

  So, that's tough.

• 11:52Adam Skolnick?

  So that's a resentment, I'm willing to, so that's, and my biggest fear is you're younger, better looking, and more popular than me.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Okay, good, good. That feels good. Not much younger, taller, I'll take taller.

• 12:05Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, and taller.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  I'll take taller.

• 12:07Adam Skolnick?

  And better on all board sports.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 12:09Adam Skolnick?

  And basically all sports.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Okay, got it.

• 12:11Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 12:12Rich Roll?

  And to be fair, there's a little audacity with the kind of tenor with which you, like a bull in a china shop, just like bullied your way into this whole situation.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Absolutely, it's very unfair, but it's very like me.

• 12:25Adam Skolnick?

  There was a moment where I thought, I could, I could be, I could be tossed asunder.

• 12:33Rich Roll?

  No.

• 12:33Adam Skolnick?

  There was a moment where I thought like, well, he does have, you know, a certain charisma about him.

• 12:40Rich Roll?

  Should we create a little context in case somebody is brand new to this whole thing and doesn't know what we're talking about?

• 12:46Adam Skolnick?

  Yes, I think that would be smart.

• 12:48Rich Roll?

  Do you want to try to recap it?

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, so I think in 2000, so in the spring, late winter, early spring, you and the crew came to Minneapolis. You were sitting down with civic leaders.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  And I think the roll on wasn't new, but it was kind of like catching stride.

• 13:05Rich Roll?

  But that trip was at your invitation.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Right. So because I, I was connected to, I am connected to Jacob Fry, the recently reelected mayor of Minneapolis.

• 13:13Rich Roll?

  Oh, look at that.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 13:15Rich Roll?

  First name drop.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  That name drop, but this.

• 13:18Rich Roll?

  Well, actually the second, because you dropped Zuckerberg.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  And Jacob Fry.

• 13:21Rich Roll?

  But you did it subtle. It was, the first one was subtle.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Right. But if it's Zuckerberg. I kind of brought him in. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, keep track. Um, so that's two. Yeah. And then, but I think I hit you up about the Minneapolis experience. And then, and you thought it was a pretty good idea. You press go pretty quickly. Got your whole team in. Yeah. Which was kind of new to mobilize for y'all. And then I had been, with all that was going on in 2020, I was, I was doing a little bit of time away from podcasts in general, but right around when you and I reconnected, and I would say you and I exchanged short films like maybe once a month during that era. Mm hmm. It's more now. Um, I was like, come to Minneapolis, do some stuff. Do you, when you count the short films, do you just count the total number or do you count the number you get back? It's a harvest, right?

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Like if you say, we've exchanged 50 short films. Is that 20? Forty were yours. Totally. 100%. 100%. Yeah. Uh, I think a short film experience is a trade, one in one. Yeah, I agree. So 50 would be 100 films.

• 14:23Rich Roll?

  Based on the frequency and volume of short films that I know I'm on the receiving end of, and I know Adam is.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:30Rich Roll?

  My estimation is that you leave your house in the morning, you ride your bike to the grain exchange coworking space.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 14:39Rich Roll?

  Wherein you spend the next six to eight hours sending people short films and basically videoing yourself skateboarding around and then you go home.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  That is not, that is not completely right, but you're close.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I mean, the short film, you know, and that that dates back to other stuff of like, of like, that's my exchange, that's my, so those work again, we're talking to people who are just tuning in. Short films is just texting a video saying where you're showing your scene, whatever. And that was a kind of a favorite way to.

• 15:05Rich Roll?

  You're very good at it, by the way.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Thank you. And you've gotten strong, too.

• 15:08Rich Roll?

  Thank you.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  This Adam Skolnick short film is, and not that you, I don't want to box you in with the style, but recent genre coming from your phone is almost always there's music.

• 15:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Usually a child named Zuma in your, in your arms or within reach.

• 15:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  There's slow dancing, straight facing into the camera.

• 15:26Rich Roll?

  And then duck face.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  And then it almost, and I want to say regularly, the last half dozen, finish with a cameo of a pot of oatmeal on the stove top, which I think, I mean, I'm writing letters and using a typewriter, but like the stove top oatmeal, I haven't seen.

• 15:41Rich Roll?

  I am a, I am a, I am a six star stove top oatmeal chef.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:46Rich Roll?

  Approved.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  And what are you going in? Well, we can do that another time. So, okay, so.

• 15:50Rich Roll?

  Keep it moving forward.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Keep it moving. So.

• 15:52Rich Roll?

  Show notes, I'll have recipes for you.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  So when you booked the trip, I think I was like, oh, man, I should catch up on some Rich Roll. And I listened to some whatever guests you'd had at the time, but I got into the, the roll on.

• 16:02Rich Roll?

  Yes.

• 16:03Speaker 01

  So there's a lot of jokes that'll be said at this table, but I'm like a fan of the roll on. And, and not knowing much, I think I, because I wanted to bro out with you and I basically loved the show. I was like, I just kind of off the cuff was like on the air during our podcast in Minneapolis, I think. I said, I want that guy's job. And we both laughed about it. And then like, it didn't go well because.

• 16:23Rich Roll?

  Well, the roots of this.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  Fan, you have so many fans.

• 16:25Rich Roll?

  The roots of this go back a little bit further because we did that live show in Los Angeles. Um, and that was the pilot to what we were intending to be this multi-city tour. So I was going to take the podcast on the road and I was like, I need kind of like a high energy MC dude to like, yeah, hype man to get the crowd up on its feet and all that. And I thought of you immediately. I was like, oh, Brogan. I should take Brogan on the road. He'd be, that's like perfect for what he does. So we had talked about trying to find a way to work you into that. So I think that was the original seed that.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:59Rich Roll?

  That was planted that gave you the gumption to think. Like, I'm gonna exploit this.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  I'm gonna sneak in.

• 17:06Rich Roll?

  I'm gonna find some back, backdoor way to like.

• 17:08Adam Skolnick?

  Because I'm kind of a low-energy hype man. I'm not a high-energy hype man.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  But it's all, it's all hype men.

• 17:15Adam Skolnick?

  But I am a hype man.

• 17:16Rich Roll?

  No, you are hype, you are hype man. And the reason your job is secure, just to like, cut to the, to the, you know, the finish line here, is Adam fires on all cylinders. Because he can, he can bring the funny, but he also has the journalism background. He's got the environmentalism background. He's a guy who is, you know, studied in words. Not that you're not, Brogan, but he's multidisciplinarian. And, you know, sort of free diving fetish aside, it works pretty well.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's swim snorkel. The, um, the fact, the fact is.

• 17:52Adam Skolnick?

  Odd stroke.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  One thing that this, this gentleman does really well.

• 17:55Rich Roll?

  And he has competed in swim run, which you have not.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  I have done it, Casco Bay.

• 17:58Rich Roll?

  Oh, you did?

• 17:59Speaker 01

  Let's go. We'll get there in a second. But I will say, one thing that I've noticed about you doing the roll-on, now it's like a compliment, storm we're about to have, this'll be over soon, is that you both know the things you love and that you continue to touch on mostly every show. But then you also joke about it.

• 18:18Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Which I think is like, missing in the world is like, the passionate, kind of dorky things. Everyone has their thing.

• 18:23Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  And they want to drive it into every conversation, swim run, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever these things are.

• 18:29Adam Skolnick?

  Sharks.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  But I appreciate, and this, you do this too, when then you kind of step across the street and like, make fun of it a little bit.

• 18:35Rich Roll?

  Have a little self-awareness.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Anyway, I think that's one of the brilliant parts of roll-on, because you can say, "All right, I'm gonna do this swim run thing, I can't help it, here we go." And you're like, "No, don't do it." And you're like, you make the joke, and then, and then you do it.

• 18:46Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  So it's like, I, that's, to me, that frame up is beautiful of like, "I can't help it. I'm obsessed with this dorky thing, and here, I gotta give you an update."

• 18:55Adam Skolnick?

  If you swim and run as poorly as I do, you can't take it yourself seriously when you do it. But you can still love to do it.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:02Adam Skolnick?

  And you still care about doing it.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:04Adam Skolnick?

  And so, I've, I have, the best part of me being on this show has been the motivation from Rich to actually take it even more strategically, which is a lot of fun. I mean, it's great to be sitting down with you guys. I mean, you guys are real athletes. I'm like the everyman. That's the other thing I think I can bring, is the everyman, kind of, like, you guys are real athletes. Like, college D1 athletes. I am, what's the opposite of that?

• 19:31Rich Roll?

  Um, I don't know.

• 19:32Adam Skolnick?

  A non D1 athlete.

• 19:34Rich Roll?

  I think at the shared age and stage we're all in in life, I think we're all just trying to put it out there every day.

• 19:38Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's easy to put like when you see someone on the, so I'm kind of the every man who's just doing the best he can. And so I think there's that too.

• 19:47Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 19:48Adam Skolnick?

  So, yeah, yeah.

• 19:48Rich Roll?

  Well, just to plant a quick flag at this interim stage in our therapy session, I would say that despite the fact that Brogan kind of flew here just to trample on the Viceroy's kingdom a little bit and like, you know, kind of pee on the fire hydrant. Knock on the door. Yeah. That this therapy session is going quite well. I think so. Right? I think so. I wish I had an iPad. Everyone seems to have an iPad. We gotta throw a wrench in it a little bit. It gets complicated. Oh, my God.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 20:14Rich Roll?

  Are we gonna go there? Am I gonna get beat up? No. Maybe. I'm fine with that. We'll see. It's two on one. I mean, you're tall, but like two guys on one. Look, get Dan Drake ready. So here's the thing. We have to do it. Let's do it.

• 20:25Adam Skolnick?

  Dan Drake will fight by your side.

• 20:27Rich Roll?

  Oh, he'll film it. Somebody's gotta film it. So it's a love session right now. We've established that Brogan has some kind of designs on working his way into this show, and you've been successful. Here I sit. You're here right now. So who's winning? By sheer force of will. Even though you guys are...

• 20:44Adam Skolnick?

  You still wanna win. You still wanna win.

• 20:45Rich Roll?

  It's not about winning. I'm giving you... I'm reluctantly giving you an audience, but here's the thing. Like, we have joked about you sort of making inroads on Adam's fiefdom. Yeah. That's one thing. It's all fun and games.

• 20:59Adam Skolnick?

  It goes from here to the light.

• 21:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get these little notches right here. But an invisible character on Roll On in a recurring fashion is Adam's son, Zuma. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He's a recurring character. Yeah, he is a recurring character. There's a lot of love for Zuma out there. It's such a... Brogan. Yeah. I guess we gotta do this. You just had a daughter? One. What is your daughter's name? Her middle name? What is your daughter's name? Dramatic pause. We named our daughter Zuma.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  And my wife Goldie Graham and I have this back and forth about names. She comes home from a walk, pregnant walk, she's been doing some podcasting. She walks in the house and says, not even, hey, I'm home, not, she goes, what do you think about the name Zuma? And because I'm a fan of Rich Roll and the Roll On and Adam Skolnick, I knew where she had found it. The thing is, I like the name. Yes. And so I didn't want it, she doesn't know about this, this posse or my attempt to join the band. So she didn't, so I didn't give her the backstory. And I was just like, I love it. And like, I think a lot of folks do when they're getting ready to have kids, you, you let it, you play with the name for a week. Yes. And then it maybe doesn't make the top of the list and goes away. And it stayed on the top of the list.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  So I reached out to Rich and I was like, dude, this is happening. And then I, I think a few, maybe like a month later, I almost asked for like names. A month later? I think so. Oh, wow.

• 22:31Rich Roll?

  You let that simmer for a month before you picked up. Mister, I send out, I send out short films to people every 10 seconds.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. This is an important thing. This is beyond.

• 22:41Rich Roll?

  You sit on this for a month.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Because I thought it could fade and it would be a non-story. Right. He wanted Goldie to come up with some other names perhaps. Yeah. So he didn't have to make that call. Or I kind of liked the call of this is happening rather than like, we're thinking about. Right, right, right. So it's like a big outreach. Yes. And Zuma, our little boy who's three and a half, his name is Lumi. And people, people want to know what the significance is. Lumi and Lumi. Where you got it. It's like, in our household, we just pick names that have a sound and energy to them, even if we have to steal them from podcast hosts. Hmm. Occasional podcast hosts. Yeah, like Robin, you're like, you're like Robin to the Batman. Yeah, I'll take it. Hey, I gotta tell a Robin story. I could be Robin. I was talking to Skolnick like a few weeks ago on the phone.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  And I had this shark story that I had to tell him and I was really proud of it. Cause I was in the water and I saw a shark. Changing the subject.

• 23:33Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  We'll get back to it. I told him about this freaking story. And I don't know if you remember this. Do you know this?

• 23:40Adam Skolnick?

  I don't know.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  I've paddled out in Florida and there was a shark right next to me.

• 23:43Adam Skolnick?

  No, I didn't know that.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  I told you this.

• 23:45Adam Skolnick?

  Okay.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Anyway, well, maybe you weren't listening because I told you the story and I was like, I drew it way out.

• 23:49Adam Skolnick?

  You were kidding.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  No, I was serious.

• 23:51Adam Skolnick?

  Okay.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  And it was right next to me in the water. I took, I looked at the old guys next to me and they were so unalarmed. They were just very casual about it. And I think it was like a five or six foot shark.

• 24:00Adam Skolnick?

  Okay.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  And it was like my most epic adventurous surf story ever. And I told you on the phone and you, you were like, what kind of shark was it? Like you asked like the wrong questions to like take the energy out of it. And I was like, damn. And I saw your footage and so I was like, you just said the kind thing about us being athletes.

• 24:15Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  I'm not someone with sharks. I think you're out, I think you're out of your mind.

• 24:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah. But you have, living in San Diego, surfing every day.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But this was like a reef shark and you, we, we framed that up. And then I was like, which kind are you with? And you swim with white sharks. So that's a different thing.

• 24:30Adam Skolnick?

  Well, I've, I've been, different kinds of sharks over time, but yeah, yeah. But the, you're right about that. But back to the, so you call me up.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I call you up and I was like, um, look, uh, we're doing this name thing.

• 24:44Adam Skolnick?

  Did you call or text? I think you called, right?

• 24:46Speaker 01

  I think it was like a good old fashioned telephone call.

• 24:48Adam Skolnick?

  That's a call.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:49Adam Skolnick?

  That's a call. That's a call subject.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:51Adam Skolnick?

  You can't text that.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  You're not even FaceTiming. You're like trying to lock in.

• 24:53Rich Roll?

  No asynchronous communication.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  I can't look him in the eye when I say this.

• 24:58Adam Skolnick?

  Did you find a rotary phone?

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  And then the one's really close. That's nine. Nine.

• 25:06Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  And I was like, I was like, I told, I told Adam the story, what I just told you, Goldie comes back from the walk. She says, what do you think? And it was like, and he was so nice and laughed and like, it was like, oh, do it, do it. Like I didn't even ask him and he's like, do it, do it. And so I was like, and so then we played, I played up this joke of I was, you didn't have to respond.

• 25:25Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  But you had a few, you had some time to give me your blessing.

• 25:30Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  I think.

• 25:31Adam Skolnick?

  Well, I think the way I looked at it was it's already done. Like if you wouldn't have called me if Goldie hadn't already decided.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Totally. Yeah, exactly.

• 25:40Rich Roll?

  But how did that land?

• 25:42Adam Skolnick?

  Well, I thought it was funny, but, um, You know, it landed obviously differently for me than for April.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:49Adam Skolnick?

  Right. But um, in the end, it's like, I come from the field of great creative abundance.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:55Adam Skolnick?

  And nobody owns anything. And it's great. I mean, the world, you know, here's how I say it. The world needs more Zumas.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  That's exactly what you said on the phone.

• 26:04Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  And you said it on a short film as well.

• 26:07Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  The world needs more Zumas.

• 26:08Adam Skolnick?

  It's true.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  The world needs more Zumas.

• 26:10Adam Skolnick?

  The world needs more Zumas.

• 26:11Rich Roll?

  High-minded, uh, enlightened response. Given the backdrop of this dude's questionable motives.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  I want his job, didn't get his job. I guess I'll take his kid's name.

• 26:21Adam Skolnick?

  I think that there's like.

• 26:22Rich Roll?

  And here you are anyway.

• 26:24Adam Skolnick?

  I think there might be.

• 26:24Rich Roll?

  Like, where does it end?

• 26:25Speaker 01

  I still want his job.

• 26:26Rich Roll?

  How far are we taking this?

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, what does your podcast do?

• 26:30Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah. What does your podcast do? I think there's like.

• 26:33Rich Roll?

  What does your Zuma do?

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Dude, nothing. Just poops in diapers and keeps us up all night.

• 26:37Adam Skolnick?

  How's the diaper game? How's your diaper game?

• 26:38Speaker 01

  You know.

• 26:39Adam Skolnick?

  Get it back?

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Uh, yep.

• 26:41Adam Skolnick?

  Was it right like that or did it take a minute?

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Kinda.

• 26:43Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Um.

• 26:44Adam Skolnick?

  The diapers aren't that hard.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. The diapers aren't that hard. It's like one thing that dads should just do all diapers. If you're gonna have a baby, if you're thinking about having kids, you don't have any, someone told me just try and change every diaper. Just cause like, that's a way to contribute. Like, just do everyone.

• 26:57Adam Skolnick?

  But you're so competitive. I bet you elbow go to the way to change that diaper.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Get out of the way. Get out of the way, woman. Um, you know, with a three and a half year old, you think that you just recently had a baby, but you're kind of out of practice.

• 27:09Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  So Zuma will wake up at kind of all the, all the hours, all night. And you're like smelling a butt of a tiny little peanut of a kid. The kid is the size of my running shoe. It's cool.

• 27:18Adam Skolnick?

  That's cool.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  And um, and she's really cute and sleeps in the carrier and I walk around my neighborhood in Minnesota. It's like, it's the best. And so.

• 27:25Adam Skolnick?

  I've seen some of the neighbors you have there.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:28Adam Skolnick?

  No-nonsense lawns.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Their lawns are nice. Their lawns are nice. And then there's this, there's a coin flip to be a homeowner in my neighborhood of like, are you the kind of guy? Person, in my case, guy, that is doing his own lawn work? Or are you paying to have someone else do it?

• 27:43Adam Skolnick?

  I think you're doing your own.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  You got, well, that's what I think. I think you've gotta do your own.

• 27:49Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  And then there goes your weekend. I don't know. And my lawn looks really average. So I don't know. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm raking a lot and mowing and it's just terrible. Zuma's, I actually mowed the lawn. I made you both a short film, which I'll send you today. A week or two ago with Zuma on mowing the lawn with one arm. And making a short film that says, yo, I'm out.

• 28:08Adam Skolnick?

  The world needs more Zumas.

• 28:09Rich Roll?

  Yes. Multi-talented, uh, dad-ing.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  It's a good thing.

• 28:14Rich Roll?

  Well, on the subject of the world needing more Zumas.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:17Rich Roll?

  At some point, I suspect. Zuma A will meet Zuma B. And what happens?

• 28:23Adam Skolnick?

  Boy meets Zuma girl.

• 28:24Rich Roll?

  What? Yeah. What happens when Zuma boy meets Zuma girl and love flourishes?

• 28:29Speaker 01

  The, you know, you start planning the wedding, I guess.

• 28:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  The father of your bride. Yeah. So you do the night before. You do the rehearsal dinner.

• 28:36Adam Skolnick?

  I'm gonna really keep that low, low budget though.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:39Adam Skolnick?

  Cause for the environment.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  And I'll dance with the daughter and I'll cry a lot, walk her down the aisle. I mean, I, getting ready to come here.

• 28:45Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  And have this in-person Zuma conversation. D-bunking some of the, um, I want your job still kinda stuff.

• 28:51Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  I, um, can I do the gift thing?

• 28:54Rich Roll?

  Sure.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. I had a friend of mine who's an artist in San Diego, commissioned, uh, a couple of handmade shirts that say, Zuma's dad.

• 29:02Rich Roll?

  That's great.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna give it to you right now.

• 29:04Rich Roll?

  Alright.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  And, um, you don't have to put it on, does he?

• 29:07Rich Roll?

  I'll put it on.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you should put it on. Like I said, and, uh, and if, if the first one doesn't fit you, you can have the other one. And I'll put mine on too.

• 29:14Adam Skolnick?

  Let's put them both on.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. Let me get them.

• 29:16Rich Roll?

  So why don't we take a quick break while you guys do that? And we'll be.

• 29:21Adam Skolnick?

  Exchange jerseys.

• 29:23Rich Roll?

  Right back.

• 29:31Rich Roll?

  And we're back. Zuma's dad.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Dude.

• 29:34Rich Roll?

  That's an incredible shirt.

• 29:35Adam Skolnick?

  It's a great shirt.

• 29:36Rich Roll?

  For people that aren't watching on YouTube, it's a hand-sewn.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 29:40Rich Roll?

  I don't know what you would call it.

• 29:42Adam Skolnick?

  I don't know. I'm a little worried that it's not up to code for my Ben and Jerry's shift, cause I just got hired back.

• 29:48Rich Roll?

  It has a definite Ben and Jerry's vibe to it, though.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. She, I mean, she's doing, she's doing the upcycled fabrics and kind of vintage stuff. And she's just a crafty. One-woman army. Her name's Dawn, Dawn by the Bay.

• 30:00Adam Skolnick?

  Dawn by the Bay.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  She makes shirts.

• 30:01Adam Skolnick?

  Thank you, Brogan.

• 30:03Rich Roll?

  Brogan's wearing a hoodie. Let me see the back of that hoodie.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, Zuma's dad, all hand embroidered. Zuma's dad, actually, we could start like a group, like a, we should see how many Zuma's dads are out there.

• 30:15Adam Skolnick?

  Well, who's Gwen Stefani's, uh?

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Baby daddy?

• 30:17Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  I don't know the answer to that.

• 30:19Adam Skolnick?

  It's not Blake.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Right. So, but we should invite Blake. Her kid is called Zuma, her kid's called Zuma also?

• 30:25Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 30:27Adam Skolnick?

  So she has a, what, a seven-year-old or something? I don't even know the age.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Named Zuma.

• 30:31Adam Skolnick?

  Zuma. That's how, so Goldie, when they called, so there was two calls, right? You called me, and then you called me with Goldie.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:39Adam Skolnick?

  And Goldie said, where'd you get the name?

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:41Adam Skolnick?

  Um, did you get it from Gwen or something like that?

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:44Adam Skolnick?

  And I said, no, we got it. You know, we were married, I think your audience knows, we were married at, at Point Doom.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:52Adam Skolnick?

  We were looking at different names. Zuma means, uh, or we've, we researched Zuma's abundance in Chumash, which are the native indigenous people to Malibu from Point Doom up towards Santa Barbara. Point Doom was sacred in that culture, and so we kind of borrowed that, and then we borrowed some middle names from different places that were meaningful to us. Um, so I explained that to you guys, right?

• 31:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:15Adam Skolnick?

  And here we are.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Zuma's dad.

• 31:17Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I, I've done this with Rich over the years, and you and I have exchanged a little bit over the last month. My Zuma's been alive for a month, but like the, you know, trading dad advice, that's a real thing. I think more dudes need to be out there just talking about the good, bad, and the ugly, because the good stuff is really, really great, and I think that that's kind of like a missing thing. So, we've had those conversations, we've had those conversations. And I think that stuff's really powerful, especially for dads that are on the beginning of the journey.

• 31:43Adam Skolnick?

  Beginning dads.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  When it's not, it's not, it's not.

• 31:47Adam Skolnick?

  No, I've, I've got, I've got a buddy right now who's like in the first, he's like six weeks in, and, you know, it's, he's, he's starting, like, yeah, it's, it's like you, you see. Like, listen, he was, he's older as two, so he, he didn't, he didn't have these illusions of how it was supposed to be. But at the same time, it's like, coming to terms with what your life is and where it exists in the nature of this, you know, 24 hour day, which part is, where does your life fit in that 24 hour day? Totally. Is a matrix, right? And it changes and it's always shifting. I mean, for me, like, I'm so happy to have the time change back to like, I used to love daylight savings time, but now, like, during daylight savings hours, I haven't been outside in the night more than like two or three times.

• 32:31Adam Skolnick?

  I haven't seen the sun go down. Right. You know, cause, cause that's bedtime period, you know, and now, I'm happy it's getting dark at like 4:50 in the afternoon, because that means I get to be outside when it's night. Yeah. It's not like I was a huge night owl all my life, but for a good chunk, I, I definitely loved being out at night. And I would, I loved full moon hikes and things like that. And some of that has been, was the first year, first, especially the first six, nine months, that's off the table. Yeah. You can't even really figure it out. Yep. And so to me, what you get back, you win back the dawns, right? So you're, you're up early, and especially I do the breakfast disco with him, and, and I don't have the nights, but I get the dawns. And so you, and that's when, I used to admire, like, seeing Rich, like, do his stories, like,

• 33:16Adam Skolnick?

  getting his, his coffee going at like before five, and I'm like, and I would be getting up at eight and like, who are these motherfuckers that are running at five in the morning? Like, why, why am I so late? And then I, I think I- Well, necessity dictates that. Right. When you have kids. Right. You gotta, you gotta get organized. You find where your life exists, right? You find, you find the margin. The margin. You still have. The margin. And you can't give in to, I don't have, or I don't. You can't examine your life in the prism of what you used to have. Totally. You have to find, you have to accept life and find your space to still- Uh, you know, do your thing in a way that's good for everybody. So it's a challenge, but it's, it's fun in that regard. And, and you know, you just got to commit to the

• 34:00Adam Skolnick?

  choice you've already made, basically.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  The, the idea of a newborn, for me, using that margins idea is like retired folks golf all day, like hang out, go to the, go to the pool, huge margins, almost completely margins, right?

• 34:12Adam Skolnick?

  Right, margin, yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Whereas mine is thin or nonexistent, or when it's alive or around inside a 24 hour period, it is shifty, it is a moving target, it could just pop up out of nowhere, or it could be canceled. So, as someone who moves and needs to be out in the world, in Minneapolis, you saw firsthand, like communicating with people, like the banter, the interactions, like, and sport, and training, and yoga. So like, that has been a very selfish thing that dads shouldn't complain about, but is real. Like, you start losing yourself in some of that stuff. So, I've told both of you, but like falling into a new yoga practice has been huge, because you can unroll that mat at 2:00 in the morning.

• 34:48Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  2:00 in the afternoon, whatever. And, um, and it's a little bit of escapism in a way that I think is actually healthy.

• 34:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 34:55Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah. Like, I, I don't understand people who are against escapism. Have you seen what's going on in the world? Like, it's just a matter of what's your escape? And, and is it productive? Right?

• 35:08Rich Roll?

  I think, uh, we've kind of teed off into this big topic issue that we wanted to talk about, which is, you know, being a dad and what does that mean? Um, I had put all this other stuff in the outline that I wanted to talk about, but since we're kind of going there, we should probably just do it now. But I think it would be, uh, good to just put a cap on the therapy session aspect of this. And I feel like you guys are bro-ing out, and it's all good. There's nothing but love here.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 35:37Rich Roll?

  And respect.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 35:40Adam Skolnick?

  Can you put another hand on top?

• 35:41Rich Roll?

  Despite the bum rush. I think this is all for the best.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Thank you, Rich.

• 35:45Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 35:46Adam Skolnick?

  It was a shock. It was a shock to see the white tiger in the, uh, in the space.

• 35:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 35:51Adam Skolnick?

  The soggy white tiger.

• 35:53Rich Roll?

  You got new clothes out of it.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  You got a T out of it.

• 35:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Your job is super secure.

• 35:56Rich Roll?

  A small price to pay for him absconding with your son's name and appropriating it for his own purposes.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  Can't get the job.

• 36:03Adam Skolnick?

  That was, uh, nombre appropriation, brah.

• 36:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  It's also cool to hear Rich Roll tell like a billion fans and listeners like his job is secure. He's said it a million times. That's cool. That's cool, man.

• 36:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, just so we're totally clear for all the Skolnikites out there.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Here we go.

• 36:20Rich Roll?

  Adam's job is very secure.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Let's talk about ads.

• 36:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Ads. I think there's a little opportunity here.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Is that, I have not been moving product. I have not been moving product. Just give me some discount codes and I am just, ha, ha.

• 36:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah. When we're, when we're done today, we're going to bank a bunch of ads.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, you want to know about macro bars? Take this discount code. Call me later.

• 36:43Rich Roll?

  Right. All right. I'm taking control of this. We're going to switch gears here. I do have a couple announcements I need to make. The first of which is, um, I want to let everyone know that we're putting together, we're compiling this end of the year listener stories, very special, uh, after school special version of the podcast.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  I love that. I love that idea.

• 37:05Rich Roll?

  Which is great. Yeah. So what we're, what we're doing is we're kind of soliciting all of you guys out there, the listeners, to share your personal story of how this show has impacted you, how it's benefited you, how it has, you know, reoriented your personal views or your worldview, how it's inspired you to kind of reframe your vision of family, which we're going to talk more about today, work, sense of self, all of that stuff, you know, how it has acted as an agent of change in your own personal evolution. So if you have been impacted and you're willing to share, it would mean a lot if you could give us a call, um, at 805-421-0057 and just kind of lay it all out in a long voicemail, your

• 37:49Rich Roll?

  journey of transformation, how the podcast and all of the guests that we've had on have inspired you, what you've learned, what you've practiced, what you've implemented or shared with others along the way. And we're going to take all that and we're going to create something really cool with it. So again, 805-421-0057. Brogan, I expect you to leave a voicemail.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  I've been leaving voicemails.

• 38:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you've been, you've been doing that for a while.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  I try to sneak on the rich roll.

• 38:15Rich Roll?

  The second thing is.

• 38:16Adam Skolnick?

  Rich, I'd like to just come right out and say I'm available to help with the listener story compilation.

• 38:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, okay.

• 38:23Adam Skolnick?

  And I'm also available.

• 38:24Rich Roll?

  You can go with Dan Drake and with Blake and Jason.

• 38:27Adam Skolnick?

  I love to do some interviews. I can help conduct, you know, some interview.

• 38:30Rich Roll?

  Oh, that would be good. Go all like, like, ooh, that's a good one. I'm going to call that guy and go deeper and press him or her.

• 38:37Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 38:37Rich Roll?

  Maybe we could do that. That would be good.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  And if there's a way we could bring ads into this, that'd be cool.

• 38:41Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, we'll bring Brogan in as the ad guy.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Sounds like a good place for some ads, guys.

• 38:45Adam Skolnick?

  Can we deep fake Brogan or do I have to work with the actual Brogan?

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Guys?

• 38:49Rich Roll?

  Uh, I don't know. He knows Zuckerberg, so back to the metaverse.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll be surfing with, I'll be foiling with Zuck.

• 38:55Adam Skolnick?

  I'm gonna be foiling with the deep, deep fake Zuck, not real Zuck.

• 39:00Rich Roll?

  A comment about that in a second, but first, my second announcement. I want to let everyone know that I'm going to be speaking at the upcoming Planted Expo in Vancouver on November 20th and 21st. Looking to be a super cool event. Canada's largest plant-based event with tons of great speakers. My boy John Lewis, the badass vegan's going to be there. Tons of exhibitors, attendees. There's also this kind of intimate dinner with me on the evening of November 20th. I think we're going to do some kind of live podcast around that as well. So if you're in Vancouver or nearby or willing to travel there, I look forward to seeing you and you can learn more and get your tickets at plantedlife.com.

• 39:41Adam Skolnick?

  I'm available to help carry your bags that evening.

• 39:44Rich Roll?

  You want to do that? Second thing is on the subject of foiling in Zuckerberg. Adam and I, since it's been a while since we've done the roll on, people are like, what happened?

• 39:54Adam Skolnick?

  About a month, right?

• 39:55Rich Roll?

  Uh, yeah, maybe like six weeks, I think. A lot.

• 39:58Adam Skolnick?

  Six weeks, September 30th, right?

• 39:59Rich Roll?

  I think, yeah, that was the last time that we've done this. So a ton of stuff has happened. Too many things to recap, but one thing that we got to talk about is that Adam and I both got invited to go to Surf Ranch.

• 40:09Adam Skolnick?

  Yes.

• 40:10Rich Roll?

  In central California, which is Kelly Slater's, you know, epic wave pool. And it was an event that was put together by Red Bull Media. They invited all these cool people to go and spend the day. And it was a pretty amazing experience to be up there because we were surrounded by all these pro surfers, like. Pro surfers, when they get the nod like, "Hey, come out to the surf ranch," they show up.

• 40:33Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 40:34Rich Roll?

  Because the wave is insane.

• 40:35Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 40:35Rich Roll?

  And it's the same every time, and they can work on very specific things that they're working on.

• 40:40Adam Skolnick?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:40Rich Roll?

  So Adam and I, being like the most mediocre surfers ever.

• 40:43Adam Skolnick?

  That's being kind. That's being very kind in my stead.

• 40:48Rich Roll?

  We get there, and they go through this whole instructional thing. And then there's heats. Like, you go out for an hour, you come back, and then another heat goes out of like eight people. And originally, I thought my heat wasn't gonna be until like 11 a.m. or something like that. And then it's like 6:45, and they're like, "Oh, Rich, you're going in seven. You're the first heat." And like, I've never been in a wave pool. Like, I haven't surfed in like a decade.

• 41:10Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 41:10Rich Roll?

  You know? And they're putting me out there with like Kai Lenny and like these other guys, and I'm freaking out. Like, thinking I'm gonna get in their way. I'm gonna screw them up and all that kinda stuff. I was like, almost had a panic attack.

• 41:21Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 41:21Rich Roll?

  Like, "What am I doing here?" You know? Um, but it ended up being like an incredible experience, just to like hang out with all these people and talk story.

• 41:30Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 41:30Rich Roll?

  I loved it. What was your experience?

• 41:33Adam Skolnick?

  Wow. Same. You know, like, I haven't been on a board in over a decade, and I'm comfortable swimming around in the ocean. And it would've been comfortable even at that size. It's fast. It's a fast wave.

• 41:45Rich Roll?

  It's a very fast wave. Yeah.

• 41:46Adam Skolnick?

  But like, being put on this big board and feeling very clumsy, I was definitely afraid I was gonna get in someone's way.

• 41:54Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 41:54Adam Skolnick?

  Like, you know, hurt people. Um, and then after that, I was like also afraid to surf in front of these wonderful surfers.

• 42:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah. It's like, I thought they would put guys like us all out in the same heat. Like, why are they mixing this up with the real guys?

• 42:07Adam Skolnick?

  The rookie class. Go out there.

• 42:09Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 42:09Adam Skolnick?

  Hurt each other.

• 42:10Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 42:11Adam Skolnick?

  But, I mean, it was also really cool to be able to see Kai like blazing down. And he did a front flip.

• 42:16Rich Roll?

  He literally did a 360 right in front of me. Like, did a flip off the lip of the wave. I know.

• 42:23Adam Skolnick?

  And Sky Brown, 13-year-old skateboarding medalist, and she shredded.

• 42:28Rich Roll?

  So she...

• 42:29Adam Skolnick?

  She could easily come close.

• 42:30Rich Roll?

  I didn't know who she was, and she was in my heat. And Raymonda...

• 42:33Adam Skolnick?

  Raymana.

• 42:35Rich Roll?

  Raymana. Sorry, I always get his name wrong.

• 42:37Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 42:37Rich Roll?

  Who's like an epic waterman, is out there cruising around on a jet ski to like make sure everyone's cool and helping out the newbies like Adam and I.

• 42:45Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 42:45Rich Roll?

  And I was paddling right next to her. And he didn't know who she was either. And he's like, she's 13, right? She's this little girl with a big smile. And he's like, hey, you know, do you know how to surf? Like, what's your deal? Like, are you okay? And she's like, oh, well, you know, I'm okay, or whatever. She picks up a wave and just shreds it like I've never seen in my life. And then I find out it's not her best sport.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  No, it's her.

• 43:07Rich Roll?

  She literally won a bronze medal in Tokyo in skateboarding. And she's 13. Like, this girl is the future of adventure sports.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  I met, I met her in Minneapolis when we first moved in 2019. Minneapolis was home for a lot of years in a row of the X Games. For some, for the summer games. She was there, you know, two years ago, 11 years old and tiny.

• 43:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  And just incredibly talented. And we had a really cute moment where I was babysitting this kid, kind of like a nephew type kid in my life. And he kind of whispered, he kind of elbowed me, he's like, there she is. That's her. And I did like kind of the dorky uncle thing of like, let's go meet her.

• 43:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  And like, he was mortified. But like, I set him up, made him take the picture. And then he has just been parading this photo ever since. It's like his, it's his, it's his idol. She's his idol. It's really beautiful.

• 43:55Rich Roll?

  For good reason, Matt. She is, she's amazing.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 43:58Adam Skolnick?

  And Raymana Van Bastolair, I think is his last name. He is, he's basically the mayor of Chopu. You know, he, he like is, is the guy there. And he's a Tahitian surf legend. And he is the head of the safety crew. And so I think he must have been tapped by Kelly or someone to like, come and actually run. So he runs the pool. When he's out there, he's calling the waves. He's calling positions for all the safety guys, which are all great surfers in their own right. And, and then he's helping people like Sky get barreled, figuring them out. He's, he's, you know, he's.

• 44:37Rich Roll?

  Making sure everyone's getting in the right place.

• 44:39Adam Skolnick?

  They're getting what they need. And then he's literally picking up likes of me and Rich and making sure we get a wave. And so like, helping us get up and giving us tips and.

• 44:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah, my first time out, he's like, jump on the back of the, the jet ski with your board. And like, the, the complexity of the situation just went through. I'm like, I'm supposed to jump off a jet ski onto the board, onto the wave? Like, it's hard enough just to catch it for me.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Did you ride waves?

• 45:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah. You caught some. Yeah, so they sent us all this video because they video everything and it's, you know, it's like, you know, a middle-aged guy riding a, you know, a gigantic board in a very mediocre way. And I was like, that's cool. No one really needs to see that though. Accidentally disappeared.

• 45:20Adam Skolnick?

  And that's, that would have been better than what I have, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, we managed it.

• 45:25Rich Roll?

  In a, in a beautiful kind of full circle, you know, kind of reassess your life kind of way though, like first of all, just to be invited there was like incredible. Like, because you can't just go there. Like, you know, it's, I think it's 50,000 a day to, to rent the place and it's usually corporate events and stuff like that. So.

• 45:41Adam Skolnick?

  Like years in advance.

• 45:42Rich Roll?

  Right. It's very special to even have that experience. So we were incredibly privileged to have that. But Raymana goes way back with my guy, Mike Field, who's the, who is an epic Hawaii waterman who has been my swim crew captain for all of the Ultramans that I've done. So every time I go to Hawaii, I hook up with him and he's the guy who's guided me through those races. And Mike and Raymana are super close. And in addition to that, another guy who was on this trip was my friend, Chris Otweiler, who runs a production company here in LA called Dirty Robber. And he works with, he does a lot of Red Bull media stuff. But he was on my crew for my first Ultraman. Like, we're really good friends in LA. So

• 46:26Rich Roll?

  to like, and I didn't know that he was going and I was, I hadn't, it's like, I, I don't see him that often. Like, I hadn't seen him in a long time. And we got to like, ride waves together and talk about how our lives have grown and changed since that experience in 2008 that changed my life. And it was just really cool.

• 46:42Adam Skolnick?

  That's awesome.

• 46:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 46:44Adam Skolnick?

  And, you know, the, to put a cap on the whole Raymana thing, I just found it, his story really captivating and, and, and loved hanging out with him and, and, and, and the Surf Ranch. Also, what's interesting about it is it really is this five-star kind of experience, but it's in the middle of like.

• 47:01Rich Roll?

  Right. We gotta talk about where it is.

• 47:03Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah. It's in the middle, it's like 45 minutes from Fresno or something like that, or 40 miles from Fresno.

• 47:08Rich Roll?

  Anybody who's driven the five freeway from LA to San Francisco knows how desolate it gets in the middle of that section. So imagine you're in the most desolate center of that whole experience. And then you exit the five freeway and then go inland, you go east for another 35 minutes or so, and there's nothing there except.

• 47:29Rich Roll?

  Bright like it was dark when I was driving in the night before and suddenly like in the middle of like farmland, there's this huge casino and you go in there and it's the most like depressing, breaking bad situation you've ever seen, but that's the only hotel. So that's where all the surfers stay. That's where everyone stays. There was like kind of everyone was at the bar like kind of having food and getting to know each other the night before and it was just bizarre, right? But it's like five minutes from the ranch and you go to the ranch in the morning.

• 47:57Adam Skolnick?

  Right, right, right. I was reading a pastoral song at that time. So it's like all the breakdown of what's happened in terms of industrial agriculture and the and you know, you've had you've talked about regenerative agriculture on your show many times and it's it's it shows you the opposite of that. Like the way the reason regenerative agriculture needs to work is that when industrial agriculture takes over an area, it's bigger is the only way to succeed. And so it crowds out all the people. And so there's no jobs there really. It's not like you don't need as many farmhands, you know, it's all mechanized and the towns are crumbling. And so you go, I took a run around just to see it and experience it and then to go to, you know, at the time I was like, why is the surf ranch out here? But then going and experiencing, I'm glad the surf ranch is there because it gives a lot

• 48:42Adam Skolnick?

  of people, a lot of people are having the same experience that we had. It's like, wow, you know, there's something not working, you know, like there's something about our culture that's profoundly not working and you do see it there. And, um, and so I, you know, to me, you could look at that, maybe you don't want to see that, but I actually think when you get those glimpses that you're not expecting, it's really could be really important. Um, and so I thought that was interesting, uh, an interesting caveat to that. And then the other thing is Raymonna said he's he surfs with all the big hitters that come through. So he has surfed many times with Zuckerberg.

• 49:17Rich Roll?

  Right. So that's, that's why we're teeing it up. We're gonna, we're bringing it back to Zuckerberg and foiling because Zuckerberg will rent it out for the day and like fly in. There's a, there's like a base nearby, right? And I think you can fly your private jet or whatever in and he comes in in the morning with his wife and they just take it over for the whole day and then fly back home.

• 49:37Adam Skolnick?

  And Raymonna says he's quite Good, which is really upsetting to hear. I did not like.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't want that. You don't want that. You want this whole story about a guy dropping 50K once a week and he sucks.

• 49:48Rich Roll?

  Well, he probably wasn't good at first, but if you can fly up to Surf Ranch and just get unlimited waves for an entire day, you're gonna, the, the learning curve gets shrunk considerably.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Welcome back, Mark. How was the weekend? Okay, here it is again. We'll just leave it on. Set it at six feet. Have at it.

• 50:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And the way the wave works, it's, I mean, it is a genius feat of engineering because there's literally this, this locomotive engine that pushes this wall of, of water like back and forth. And it goes back and forth. So the waves go both ways. And they figured out how to dissipate the water so that it calms down super quickly in between waves in a way that is remarkable.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Oh, that's cool.

• 50:28Rich Roll?

  And the wave is just unbelievable.

• 50:30Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, it's fast and it's, and it's, and you know, we were even paddling into like the, uh, the contest waves at one point they had us doing. But you, um, you had, didn't you come out of there with like a bruised rib? I got, I had like fin slices on both legs.

• 50:45Rich Roll?

  I had, I had like a fracture. I'm still dealing with it. I, I like cracked a rib.

• 50:50Adam Skolnick?

  You did, right?

• 50:51Rich Roll?

  Which I can like run and swim and it doesn't really bother me, but something about surfing and pushing up on the board was like, yeah, it was, it was really.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  And if you're out in the water for a while, when you get back on and paddle, you're, you're gonna have those.

• 51:04Rich Roll?

  I mean, I surfed a lot in college and I literally felt like I'd never surfed in my life.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  And then, and then just like on a technical thing, do you have any issues with the swim snorkel mask while you're catching waves?

• 51:13Adam Skolnick?

  I didn't even bring it.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Oh, no way.

• 51:15Adam Skolnick?

  I didn't bring it. I don't know why.

• 51:17Rich Roll?

  That would have been.

• 51:17Adam Skolnick?

  Well, I, I wanted to swim in there, but I didn't want to get in the way. Like I'm, I wanted to be polite. Like it's not about me swimming in your, in your wave pool.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  Hey, can you shut the waves off? I gotta get some meters.

• 51:26Rich Roll?

  So I just turned 55 and Adam gifted me the best birthday gift. He literally got me a snorkel mask. So this, this me, my, all my efforts to get him off the mask and what does he do? He's trying to get me on the mask.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Here we go.

• 51:43Rich Roll?

  I mean.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  This is happening. You have to. You just have to.

• 51:46Adam Skolnick?

  Hang on, let me get something. I have something too.

• 51:47Rich Roll?

  It's too loose right now, but you get the idea.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  And then, and then, yeah, then you drop.

• 51:52Rich Roll?

  Can I get prescription lenses on this though?

• 51:54Speaker 01

  You go right to the end of the lane, you drop your pool buoys and you're.

• 51:57Rich Roll?

  Right. You surf with this though, right? That's the idea?

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 52:01Rich Roll?

  I mean.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Here we go.

• 52:03Rich Roll?

  Adam goes out and swims in the ocean with, with this on rather than swim goggles.

• 52:09Adam Skolnick?

  Well, I don't quite use that.

• 52:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 52:11Adam Skolnick?

  I gave you, I got you a better one than what I use. I would only use that in a dive scenario. I wouldn't swim with that. But if you come with us back to, uh, the reef, bring that this next time and then we can dive around.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  You guys got iPads and glasses and goggles. I'm just going shades.

• 52:27Adam Skolnick?

  Ah, yeah.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  This mask is like got its own following.

• 52:30Adam Skolnick?

  I got this mask.

• 52:31Rich Roll?

  There's a weird like cat eye thing on that.

• 52:34Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, it's like the devil mask. I got this at Sylvia Earle's dive shop.

• 52:37Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 52:38Adam Skolnick?

  At, and.

• 52:39Rich Roll?

  That's right. You went up to see Sylvia Earle and she's coming on the podcast soon.

• 52:43Adam Skolnick?

  Right, right. I'm excited about that.

• 52:44Rich Roll?

  Which is gonna be amazing.

• 52:45Adam Skolnick?

  And she has a dive shop in a ramshackle submarine factory. It's fucking awesome. It's in Alameda, California.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:52Adam Skolnick?

  And so I got, I got a new one for me because I got that for you and I wanted to bring it.

• 52:57Rich Roll?

  Um, good, man. Well, there was a bunch of other stuff that happened, but is it all that important? I think, I feel like we should talk about.

• 53:04Adam Skolnick?

  I think we should talk about dad, dad, dad life.

• 53:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah, let's, let's talk about that.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Father's Day is always just right on.

• 53:09Rich Roll?

  When is Father's Day?

• 53:11Speaker 01

  It's in June.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  It's in June. I do a countdown. I got a ticker. I have a ticker in my lawn.

• 53:16Adam Skolnick?

  But in Nova Scotia, it's in November.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Right, right, right, right.

• 53:20Adam Skolnick?

  Nova Scotia.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's always Father's Day somewhere.

• 53:22Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  Right. It's like the five o'clock.

• 53:24Adam Skolnick?

  And Iceland, I celebrate Iceland, Iceland's Father's Day on Jan 7.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 53:29Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:30Adam Skolnick?

  Reykjavik.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 53:32Adam Skolnick?

  Reykjavik, Father's Day.

• 53:33Rich Roll?

  Before we do that though, should we have a little running news?

• 53:36Adam Skolnick?

  Let's do it.

• 53:37Rich Roll?

  Cause it was a big weekend.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  Huge.

• 53:38Rich Roll?

  We had the LA marathon. We had the New York City marathon.

• 53:41Adam Skolnick?

  Same day, right?

• 53:42Rich Roll?

  And our own in-house boy, Davey Greenberg himself, ran his first marathon.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Davey?

• 53:49Rich Roll?

  The LA marathon.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Way to go, way to go.

• 53:51Rich Roll?

  Wearing his finishing, uh, come on over here, Davey.

• 53:54Adam Skolnick?

  Davey, get over here.

• 53:56Rich Roll?

  Wearing his finishing medal.

• 53:57Adam Skolnick?

  Mask.

• 53:58Rich Roll?

  No, yeah. Mask optional. Uh, ran under four hours in his first marathon.

• 54:04Rich Roll?

  After having a little bit of a janky knee that took him out of some of the training. So Davey, just give us 30 seconds.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  Okay, 30 seconds, go.

• 54:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 03

  It was hard. It was really fun. Um, you know, did it alongside going plant-based for the first time.

• 54:23Rich Roll?

  That's right.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, really like a great test and I feel good. I feel accomplished. I feel like really grateful. Um, all my friends came out, like so many people were so supportive. Uh, we raised a bunch of money. And yeah, can't wait for the next one, Big Sur, April 24th.

• 54:41Rich Roll?

  Right. So you get a little bit of a rest.

• 54:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:43Rich Roll?

  And then you're gonna hit it hard. But you trained really hard. I feel like you trained really methodically. But what I saw was someone who was having like so much fun. Like you got, you went from nothing and then hearing Hella and getting inspired to getting pretty focused and serious pretty quickly. Um, and it took you on like a journey. Like you're a different guy than you were before Hella came on the podcast.

• 55:08Speaker 03

  I definitely, and also like it's, it's one of those things where people talk about like the love hate relationship with running all the time. And I don't, that wasn't my experience. I just loved it. Like I think it's one of the most enjoyable things I've discovered. And, uh, I just have like so much fun doing it. Like it doesn't, it hurts, but like it doesn't hurt in a way that is discouraging. And, um, yeah, just like really excited to have discovered.

• 55:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 55:33Speaker 03

  This thing. Yeah.

• 55:34Rich Roll?

  It's cool, man. And I feel like you also used it to broaden your community. Like you got involved in all these run clubs. The Korean Run Club and the Besties and all of that and ended up making all these friends out of the, out of the process as well.

• 55:48Speaker 03

  And the Rich Roll.

• 55:49Rich Roll?

  That's right, man.

• 55:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:50Rich Roll?

  It made me think, and I, I should say, um, That, you know, in addition to you running the marathon, like Blake and Jason have been running quite a bit. Jason's on his run streak. Jason, how many days have you?

• 56:05Speaker 04

  127.

• 56:07Rich Roll?

  127 days of running every single day since Hella. I mean, Hella is really the catalyst here, the whole thing.

• 56:14Speaker 03

  I'm pretty sure.

• 56:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know.

• 56:17Speaker 03

  I'm pretty sure you have a big part in it too.

• 56:20Rich Roll?

  Well, I just get to host these people and then get to see the ripple effects of their message. But Jason having his run streak and then the three of you guys ran that trail half marathon together, which like warmed my heart to see you guys doing that together. Blake has been swimming. Adam, Blake and Jason are doing the Malibu half. So it's been really cool and it's made me think that there's got to be a way to, you know, kind of expand the scope of this to make it kind of a more open, community oriented thing. So maybe in 2022, I've always resisted this idea of like creating a group run or a run club or something like that because I never know how much I, you know, like my friends are always like, let's go running. And for me, it's always a solo thing. Like I know Brogan is like,

• 57:05Rich Roll?

  it's all about the group and November project. And for me, it's like, I'm the lone wolf. Like I resisted, but I think in the wake of COVID and all the isolation that we've experienced and just when I went and did the group run in Central Park for the FAR event and all of that, like it's so much fun. And so if we can find a way to maybe create something like that here where maybe once a month, we do a trail run at Chesbrough or something that's near here, you know, and make it open to people, you know, we can call it like the FAR Club or something like that would be cool.

• 57:37Speaker 03

  Make it happen.

• 57:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And you guys can, and the fact that because all you guys are running, like then it's not all on me. Like we can have like, you know, sergeants and generals to help manage it if I'm out of town or something.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Sergeant Dean.

• 57:50Rich Roll?

  What do you think?

• 57:50Speaker 01

  All right, I'm escaping.

• 57:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, all right, buddy. Congrats, man. Super proud of you.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank all you guys.

• 57:54Rich Roll?

  And it was cool to see Ukash out there, too, to give you a hug, right? Also, in other running news, I mean, we got to mention a couple standouts from the weekend. Shalane Flanagan, friend of the pod, ran 233 for her sixth consecutive marathon in six weeks.

• 58:11Speaker 01

  Unreal.

• 58:12Rich Roll?

  Unbelievable, 233. Crazy, her fastest one yet. So that's amazing. I mean, I had so much FOMO watching the New York Marathon.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  It was terrible, watching that starting line. It's like looking up that bridge.

• 58:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's Knox, there's Robin Arzon, there's Alexi Pappas, who, like, another great story. She starts with the elites, but she's had some injuries, so she's not, she wasn't in it to like, you know, hammer. She just wanted to have fun. But because she started with the elite, she had her name on the thing and the whole thing. And then she just turned it into this, like, 26.2 mile party where she was blowing kisses to people the whole way and just became this crazy fan favorite.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  Oh, man, she's so great for running. And for that event, for those of you who have run it, to be in the Five Boroughs and to have each of those ecosystems come to life in a different way, to see her going through those different stages.

• 58:58Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  And, and to see her fans everywhere.

• 59:02Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 59:05Rich Roll?

  Her fan base is crazy. She had glitter all over herself and like, you know, just turned it into like a performance art.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 59:12Rich Roll?

  You've run, you've run in New York, right?

• 59:14Speaker 01

  I did New York, I've done, I've done Boston a couple times, and a handful of other ones.

• 59:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, would you run in New York?

• 59:20Speaker 01

  I ran.

• 59:21Rich Roll?

  I'm gonna make you sad.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  I ran 302 in New York.

• 59:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  I ran 302 in New York.

• 59:26Rich Roll?

  Amazing.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  It was my quickest one, and then maybe a race or two later, I haven't done the road thing for a while, so.

• 59:32Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  We did some trail, we did some years on the trail, and then, yeah, now I'm doing a lot of yoga, man. But I, when I see, I mean, knowing what you went through on Sunday, you know, that starting line, looking up that bridge, it's just so cool. And thinking about like every step getting you closer to Central Park.

• 59:48Adam Skolnick?

  I did LA.

• 59:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he did. So Davey did LA, yeah, which was at the same time.

• 59:52Adam Skolnick?

  You're gonna have to get to New York.

• 59:53Rich Roll?

  Seeing New York, I was like...

• 59:54Adam Skolnick?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 59:55Rich Roll?

  I need some of that energy in my life.

• 59:58Adam Skolnick?

  It starts, uh, it starts in Staten Island. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:00Rich Roll?

  Hmm. Our boy Knox, making 240 look easy.

• 1:00:05Adam Skolnick?

  When...

• 1:00:05Rich Roll?

  He looks like he's strolling.

• 1:00:07Adam Skolnick?

  It looks like he's like walking in the mall.

• 1:00:09Rich Roll?

  I know. Stopping to say hi, kiss, kiss babies, and then you're like, oh, he's probably running like a 345.

• 1:00:15Adam Skolnick?

  Looks like a 330 effort. And then he comes in at like, he seems to always land in the 230s.

• 1:00:20Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 1:00:21Adam Skolnick?

  Like, how do you do that? If you see me run by as fast as I can, I look like I'm in pain. Like, I look like I'm working for it. He's just floating.

• 1:00:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:28Adam Skolnick?

  Uh-huh. Knox is amazing.

• 1:00:29Rich Roll?

  Um, but I have to say, I think the, the performance that, that impacted me the most was Tommy Rives. After his bout with cancer, um, showed up, walked the whole thing. It took him nine hours and 19 minutes. Uh, there's a beautiful New York Times article, uh, in the paper today, written by Adam's editor, right?

• 1:00:53Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, Tolyer Minsberg, who is, runs endurance and adventure sports, kind of for the, for the sports desk there. And is kind of, uh, more often than not, my editor. And, uh, she's obviously a gifted reporter, and she ran the, the marathon as well. So there's like some video.

• 1:01:09Rich Roll?

  So did Futterman.

• 1:01:10Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, they both, they kind of...

• 1:01:12Rich Roll?

  Futterman always runs it.

• 1:01:13Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, right. He's, he's a great runner, too. Um, but it's a beautiful piece and must-read stuff about, uh, Tommy and what he went through. And then the fact that he went to walk this, and he considers it his greatest accomplishment, and his post, which is just so poetic and so beautiful. And kind of talks about unity and love, and it's exactly kind of what we need, all need to read right now, um, which you shared, I think.

• 1:01:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I did. And, um, I was on the receiving end of a lot of messages saying, you gotta get this guy on the podcast. And he, we recorded a couple of weeks ago, and I think I...

• 1:01:50Rich Roll?

  Was remiss in not releasing that podcast today being, today being Monday, November 8th, you know, the day after the marathon. I should have done that if I had been thinking about things more clearly. That would have been, um, obviously the time to share that conversation. It's not gonna publish until, and you didn't know, you didn't know that he had been here, right?

• 1:02:11Adam Skolnick?

  I didn't even know he'd been here.

• 1:02:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so he was here a couple of weeks ago. I usually like keep it under wraps, like who I've talked to until it's time to release it. Um, but I just wanted to let everyone know that we had an incredible conversation. I think you guys are gonna really love it. He's such a beautiful human. Um, but it's not gonna go up until mid, I think it's going up in mid-December. So.

• 1:02:31Adam Skolnick?

  Whenever it happens, it's perfect. Cause you know, he's also got a good message for like New Year's or for rebooting how you look at the world. So, you know, I think.

• 1:02:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Um, we have to shout out a couple other friends. Uh, the risk with doing this is I'm gonna leave somebody out, of course. You know, I think I mentioned Robin Arzon, but my boy Dan Churchill ran 328, Brian Levine, 254, under three, Chris Chavez. He's an expert, 334. Our friend Steve Barr, Daniel Hume, friend of the pod. I think he ran like three hours or something close to it. He goes, no. Um, Reese Robinson, who, uh, used to do a bunch of work for the podcast, video and photography stuff, ran, I think it was his first marathon. We also talked about Knox. And then Oz the Mentalist.

• 1:03:20Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, Oz, Oz the Mentalist. He's a magician.

• 1:03:22Rich Roll?

  I don't know who this guy is.

• 1:03:23Adam Skolnick?

  He does like he's, do you know who he is?

• 1:03:25Rich Roll?

  No.

• 1:03:26Adam Skolnick?

  He's been featured on ESPN a bunch of times. He goes, mostly does speaking gigs and kinda corporate stuff, but he's, uh, this really gifted magician, basically. And he could, like, he could give you one card out of a deck of 52 and, and it, you could swear he never would have seen it. And he's even done this on Zoom and he knows, he can tell you what it is. And it's not just card tricks. It's like, he could tell you the numbers on, on the dollar bill that was in your wallet. Like the dollar bill you took out of your own wallet. He can guess the numbers on it.

• 1:03:58Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:03:59Adam Skolnick?

  On Zoom.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  So like that kind of stuff.

• 1:04:02Rich Roll?

  That's wild.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  He is wild like that. And, um, and I don't know him that well. I've talked to him a couple of times. He's, uh, he's, he's connected to David Goggins and, uh, David's run with him a few times and, um, and knows him pretty well. And O's, uh, did 229, came in 33rd place. He's in his 40s.

• 1:04:22Rich Roll?

  That's wild.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  He's got three kids. Talking about dad.

• 1:04:24Rich Roll?

  229 is no joke.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  That's no joke, dude. He's got some margins.

• 1:04:28Rich Roll?

  And he has two kids?

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Three.

• 1:04:30Rich Roll?

  Three kids?

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  Three kids, young kids.

• 1:04:32Rich Roll?

  All right. So time to level up, boys.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, no kidding.

• 1:04:35Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  I'm over here like, I found time to do yoga. I'm pretty sure he's 40. I mean, he could be late 30s, but he's in that same range.

• 1:04:42Rich Roll?

  That's impressive.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Rich Roll?

  That's cool.

• 1:04:51Rich Roll?

  So dadding, let's pivot to dadding.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's great.

• 1:04:56Rich Roll?

  Advice for new dads.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:04:58Rich Roll?

  I'm further down the line than you guys, so I can, I can give the 10,000 foot view on this through the rear view mirror, but you guys are, you guys are both in it. So my heart goes out to you. I know how hard it is. And I think it's, just to kind of set the tone for this, I feel like, and this is like a crazy generalization, but I feel like, you know, uh, new moms or impending moms, like they, they know what they're in for. And like, they end up getting, reading a bunch of.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  They study up.

• 1:05:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, they get, they get, there's a lot of, a lot of books are involved. There's a lot of conversations with their friends. Like, they're as prepared as they could possibly be. And the typical dad is just like, well, we'll see how this goes.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  For sure. Totally. Thank God they're studying. One of us read the book. That'll be. Well, and then, and then there's the COVID era dad that.

• 1:05:48Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  I found when we had Lumi in 2018, that it was all of those, and I used to kind of roll my eyes a little bit, but the appointments that were every month and then every week, and then seemingly every day until this kid is born, were actually the best time for me as the dad to like re-up, re-up on how real this was about to be. And during the COVID era, you can't, in most facilities, they don't allow someone to come to the appointments. So you take all of that re-upping out of it.

• 1:06:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  And the belly gets bigger and you kind of hear.

• 1:06:20Rich Roll?

  I had to do that all remote. Yeah.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:22Rich Roll?

  I had to do that all remote.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  So then. You don't get that reminder of like, this is happening. So you're really not changing your mindset. And then, so then this baby is born. It's like, oh, right. So I will say that was-

• 1:06:33Rich Roll?

  When are they coming to pick it up?

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  What was the date? Oh, it's now, oh.

• 1:06:37Rich Roll?

  So we're taking this home.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  Oh, this is, we're cleared to, no background check. We're just, we get this one.

• 1:06:41Adam Skolnick?

  Well, there's, there's always, right? There's always that come to Papa moment, right? Like, for me, it happened when we got back April, like, it took, it took her a minute to adjust to the car crash she'd just gone through. And her body was like, kind of gone, had gone through the wringer.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:56Adam Skolnick?

  And like, she was literally shivering, like she was freezing in, and she was not even, didn't even have a fever or anything. Like, she had normal temperature. Um, and so that happened like day, the first day we came back from the hospital. So then it's like me on point for those couple of days. So everyone, I think, it might come to them at a different time. The dad is going to have to step up very early on. And that, to me, is the moment where you lock, where you start, the lock-in process happens, you know? Because even if you go through that, this is your second, so you had that already. I don't know if you remember when Lumi came. Um, or Rich, if you remember the moment, if you, your moment you had where you're like, okay, it's, it's, it's my turn. It's, you know, like, all this is real and it's, it's, it's gonna sink or swim based on my ability in this very moment.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:42Adam Skolnick?

  Pressure on moment. And so that happened early on for us and it did lock me in.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:47Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  But I also, not to, it's not like I even want to point to disagree on, but I feel like the, um, the contribution of like the diapers and the support and, you know, keeping the house kind of somewhat together and, and, you know, bringing the water while she's breastfeeding and all that you can do, work your ass off, it's still gonna be a fraction of-

• 1:08:05Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  The show that she and the offering and the, the shared chemicals and the, and, you know, so, yeah, I mean, advice to dads is like, someone told me one time, change every diaper.

• 1:08:15Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  And like, and do as much as you can and be ready for the fact that it won't really register on the scale of like, actual giving yourself as much-

• 1:08:24Rich Roll?

  Right, like acknowledging that whatever you're doing is such a drop in the bucket compared to- Compared to what she has to handle and if you approach it from a perspective of like, "Hey, look at me over here and how good I'm being," you're toast.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:08:38Rich Roll?

  Like, it has to be, show up, just do all this stuff and try to anticipate the needs before

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:46Rich Roll?

  she even, you know, can think to ask you to take care of it. And the more you can be in that headspace, the better off. And you're never gonna be, like, you're, it's about that bond between mom and baby, right? And, and, and there is a little bit of a powerlessness to it, too, because you're like, "Well, I'm just kind of in the way most of the time."

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:09:05Adam Skolnick?

  Which is good. Embrace that.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  Like, yeah.

• 1:09:08Adam Skolnick?

  Because your time's coming.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're like a confused, a confused concierge. It's like, you're kind of like a, like a, so.

• 1:09:14Adam Skolnick?

  Yes, you're, you're an untrained concierge.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're a bellhop with no keys. Like, you don't know. The, the idea of, and I wish someone said this to me, the idea of, um, and I told your entire crew this when I rolled up, we had a moment where laughing, catching up with Jason, the guys, and I was like, I, this is, I, I can imagine someone's gonna hear what I'm about to say and think like, less of me or somewhat controversial, but, um, I wish someone would have told me that being the dad of a baby is a different level of service, fun, excitement, energy, entertainment, connection than the kid that will come from it. And so a year later, the kid's learning to walk, or two years later, like, there's a personality, three years later, the kids in preschool, like, I can say from my experience, it's awesome being a dad to a kid.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  It's a lot of unrewarding work to be a dad to a baby. And I wish, I wish that was a little bit more okay to say. It sounds, it sounds a little selfish, but it's like.

• 1:10:08Rich Roll?

  No, I think, I think the way to frame that, because I, I hear what you're saying 100%. There's this idea, this narrative out there, that even if you're on the fence about having kids, like, when the, when the baby comes, there's that lightning bolt moment and you're struck with this incredible love and, and just life is never the same. And I think, like, sort of knowing that that kind of gets said out there. If you don't have that experience, then you feel like, well, wait a minute. Like, I'm, I don't know. Like, why am I? You feel guilty.

• 1:10:41Adam Skolnick?

  Did you have that?

• 1:10:41Rich Roll?

  You feel like, yes and no. Like, I didn't, it wasn't some crazy thing like that. It was a, it was a slower, like, boil towards that.

• 1:10:50Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:50Rich Roll?

  But when the baby is, you know, it's like a ball of goo. You know, there's no, it's like, it's very, sometimes it can be really hard to connect. And I think a lot of people struggle because they don't initially feel that way. But it's not until they start to, you know, sort of outwardly exude human characteristics that then you're like, you see the little personality or whatever. And the more human they become and the more individuated they become in their personality, that's where the love affair can like really take root.

• 1:11:18Adam Skolnick?

  Totally.

• 1:11:18Rich Roll?

  So it's, I think if you're not experiencing those emotions off the bat in the way that you feel like culture has demanded that you must, that you need, that you just go easy on yourself and trust that, you know, just keep doing the thing and that will come.

• 1:11:33Adam Skolnick?

  It's about the habit you're building. It's not about how you're feeling at the moment, right? Like, that's how I feel about almost anything, but especially with this. And there are people that, I heard that same thing, you know, you're gonna have, you're gonna, it's gonna be like water hits you over, you know, like, like bucket of cold water and your whole life is, you know, but I, I think those are for people that maybe haven't had those experiences in other ways. And if you've had other experiences where you've kind of had expansive moments in your life, I don't know that that's necessarily gonna happen. Did I, did I shed tears when Zuma came? Yes, but it was also a very arduous, you know, long process and I was also tired. And I can't say that immediately it's because, you know, like, you know, this golden light of love hit me in the heart kind of thing.

• 1:12:18Adam Skolnick?

  I loved him right away, but I didn't have exactly what you're saying. I did not have that storybook thing. And it's, and, but at the same time, I didn't really expect it or need it, you know? So it's, it's about setting that expectation. If you think that's gonna happen for you. Or you want that to happen for you and that's the meaning, then I think you're you're kind of looking for something that isn't going to be lasting anyway. And so it's about the habit you build. To me, it's about the habit you build. At 14 months, man, I never knew 14 month year old kids could be so fun and full of personality. And like this stage I'm in now is so far my favorite. And it's been that way since the beginning. Every stage, every new stage is my favorite stage.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  So, and that, that's a good point. Yeah. Which I, I try and practice as loudly as I can with either friends that are talking about one day having kids or friends that are, maybe your partner's pregnant. I say to as many dads as possible, the practice I'm working on is everything, you know, when your crew says, how tired are you? How's it going? If, if my answer is, I'm fucking exhausted. It's a lot. I make sure to have equal airtime, especially for other potential dads. I make sure to have an equal airtime for, yeah, but. I put Zuma on my chest and we walk around, you know, at night when she can't sleep and it's really cute and it's warming and it's beautiful. Because I think there's this like, you can kind of be in a cycle with like,

• 1:13:40Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  The diapers, man, fuck. And like, it's just so hard. It's kind of sucks, right? And even I just said it five minutes ago, the baby doesn't give a lot back. It's okay if you'd like kids, but not babies. It's like, I make, I try these days to like, also do the, kind of the cheesy mushy lovey stuff. And I think that's a good practice for men to be like, and it's the cutest shit ever too. And it's better than running the LA marathon a million times. Like, it's not like anything. And just trying to give like this epic, you know, description of like, how much better life is. Your boy Casey said, he's like, he's like, it's the best thing I've ever done. That guy's having a big life. He's like, it's the, he said it this morning, it's the best thing he's ever done. And he said like, he tells as many people as possible.

• 1:14:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And I just think it's important to, you know, create that opening or that space for guys to talk about it.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:14:27Rich Roll?

  Women don't have a problem with this by and large. But guys are sort of like, who do I call? Or like, am I allowed to talk about that? Like, one of the things that I appreciate about you, Broken, is you're always like, how's the dad stuff? What's going on? Like, when we talk, it's like right to, like, what's the important thing that, you know, maybe you can't, you don't feel as comfortable sharing with your wife or some of your friends that don't have kids? And creating like, that space for dads to talk about like, what they're going through with their kids.

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:14:58Rich Roll?

  To be a support system. You know, and I think more dads, particularly young dads, should take advantage of that. Like, create your own like, network of people who are in a similar situation, or maybe further down the line, who can impart a little bit of advice and open up that channel of communication, so that when it's rough, you can call somebody and they can say, well, I went through that and here's what I did. Or, you know, just don't forget the beautiful part of it, or whatever it is when it's super hard.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  I mean, you did it. When Lumi was born, you said to me, something, because he was born in February 2018, you said, you did it, you almost did the exact same, like, share the airtime. You were like, wow, good luck, man, it's gonna be, it's gonna be, it's gonna be a lot. Or so you said something.

• 1:15:44Rich Roll?

  I think I said, there's this idea, like, oh, when you have a second kid, it's not like, you think, well, I've already done this before, like, I got it covered, but you don't realize, like, it's, it's not like double the work, it's like exponential, it's like 10 times more.

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:00Rich Roll?

  Or some crazy.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  You did the thing. You did the like, man, good luck, see you on the other side, or see you never. Like, it was kind of funny and like, realistically, he was highlighting the hard part, but almost hinged right away into this really sweet, I've thought about it recently, because we just started putting.

• 1:16:17Adam Skolnick?

  Did you think about that, when you hitchhiked and then carjacked the guy with the van, stole the van?

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:22Adam Skolnick?

  And then drove directly here?

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  Killed the caveman, tried to steal your job.

• 1:16:25Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  Did the go macro ads.

• 1:16:26Adam Skolnick?

  Did you imitate the tow truck driver between, like, finding the white tiger?

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  Hey, so you're white tiger. No, the very warming, cute thing.

• 1:16:34Rich Roll?

  Is there a basket with lotion in it, in the back of that van?

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  There was only one, yeah. Put the lotion in the basket. Get in the white tiger. Get in. No, Rich Roll said to me, oh, man, it's a lot. Good luck, buddy. See you out there. See you never.

• 1:16:48Adam Skolnick?

  See you somewhere.

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  And then he said, hinged perfectly into, it was just.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  Feels like yesterday I was washing my kid in the sink. And make this shit last. And I like, I thought it was really warm. And so like, I've taken a lot of cues from you being a chapter or two or 10 ahead of me in life. But I think it was a really cool moment of like, and I think that's cool, too, because it does feel good to hear other dads complaining like, fuck, this sucks. There's something that feels good about that. But I encourage as many men that are listening to this as possible to then add the optimism and add that like, but you have to because it's the best. And you did it with the washing in the sink thing. I thought it was cute because your kids are teenagers.

• 1:17:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:25Adam Skolnick?

  I think, just real quick, you're, I think you're very, I think the way you put the dad stuff right out there in your stories and how you present yourself to the world is very inspiring. It does, it does allow for you to feel like you're a whole person, even with a young kid and like, you know, like it has been good for me. I've really enjoyed that. And then be able to talk to you about it also at the same time. It's been, it's been great. You're right. I mean, I think there are, I was a member of this kind of, I still sometimes can join anytime I want, like these Zoom meetings with like, there's a guy here in LA who is, who runs these groups for new fathers and you can come in, he calls it Donuts with Dads. And everyone comes in and they talk about things. And for a while

• 1:18:08Adam Skolnick?

  I was involved in that. And then I realized, you know, I'd rather like, the margin thing came into it. And it's like, as much as I like a support group, I'm not really a support group kind of guy. And I'm more lone wolf like you and I want to get in the water and run. And if I only have a period of time to do one of those three things, support group's going to be out the window. But I'm also lucky that we can have these kinds of, I get it more in like, quick texts and stuff than a formal support group. But I think if you have the time and want to, the formal support group thing is really good because you know, you, people really can talk for an extended period about what they've been dealing with. And I think a lot of people get a lot out of that.

• 1:18:45Rich Roll?

  I just think the idea of young dads spending a lot of time thinking about like, how can I be a great dad and having a number of people that they can turn to, to help guide them is like a huge thing. And I feel like, you know, My dad didn't have that. Right. You know, they, I mean, I'm sure he thought like, I want to be a good dad and, and, you know, did all the things that he was taught in order to do that. But I don't think culturally it was like a reflex to like call, for him to call a friend and say, hey, here's a thing that I'm going through right now. Like, what would you do? No, that wasn't.

• 1:19:18Adam Skolnick?

  There wasn't a whole lot of navel gazing going on.

• 1:19:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there wasn't a lot of that. No, it was like, I'm going to work and, you know. Until I retired. And my dad's great. It's not like about that.

• 1:19:27Adam Skolnick?

  Your mother will be home when I get home.

• 1:19:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I buy you clothing and shelter.

• 1:19:32Rich Roll?

  And it's true, like, you know, I, I have vivid memories of washing Mathis in this little sink bowl, you know, in our bedroom, and it does go so quick. And now, my youngest being 14, it, it, it seems like yesterday and it seems like 100 years ago. And so I get to live vicariously through your guys' experience is, uh, your experiences, um, with gratitude that I'm not in it myself, but also missing it. You know, it's like, I'm so glad I'm not waking up in the middle of the night to do that. Right. But also, there's such a sweetness to that time that's so precious. And as you know, like you, with the amount of videos that you're making, I'm sure you're taking

• 1:20:15Rich Roll?

  a bazillion photos of your kids all the time. You develop this like ridiculous library of just countless images of your kids. Well, you know, fast forward 15, 17 years later, and you know how on your iPhone, you get those little, those little pop-ups, like reminder of like, here's a moment, you know, right? Right, right. Like, and it, it shows you photos from your library from the past. Um, so mine is just this rotation of like images of my kids from years ago that I forgot that I even had. That's awesome. And then it takes me right back because that image will trigger a memory of an experience and it will take me right back there. And it's melancholy because I miss that there's a sweetness to that time. My kids are in a different phase of life right

• 1:20:59Rich Roll?

  now. Um, and it's beautiful in its own right, but it's, it's not. It's less cute. It's, it's not the innocent, you know, period or whatever, that as a parent, you're like, oh, remember that. Yeah. When it was a little, like in certain respects, before the world, yeah, basically before, yeah, it's like innocence lost, you know, which is like an inevitable thing as a parent of watching the world start to creep in, you know, to, in a formative way into who these people become. Right.

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have a very cynical friend named Laura and she's had her second kid and she said to me, she would be one, she would be one to just do the whole like, doesn't this suck? And she would like, kind of like, only do that side of it. And she said to me recently, and it's something I think a lot about, because it's likely their last kid, she talks about like every diaper or every bottle or every sleepless night might be one of their last in that phase. So everyone will give advice that everything's just a phase. But when she kind of nailed down on the exact nature of it, of like, every scrape knee, when, once the training wheels come off, they're not going back on. Like, it was a really like, nice, warming, poetic thing from someone who's usually kind of Oscar the Grouch. And it was like, and it's something that I think about like almost every day, which is like,

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  how many more times are you dancing with your kid and your arms over the oatmeal? A hundred?

• 1:22:15Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  Not, not 700?

• 1:22:17Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  You know, is it 50? Is it 20? And so when you start to frame it up, like, we're leaving the oatmeal dance session in 20 more dances. It's like, whoa, those are pretty fucking awesome. You know, those are, those are even more amazing. And you, not that you're a guy that complains actually to me about any of this stuff, but that helps me frame up.

• 1:22:35Adam Skolnick?

  I try to just stuff it all down.

• 1:22:37Speaker 01

  And you, and then you, the pressure in your head is just so great. But anyway, I thought that was a nice way of thinking beyond just the phases, which is a hard thing to grasp, like each little piece of texture is.

• 1:22:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and I think that's about, like, that's something Jesse Itzler talks about all the time. He did it in the context of like, how many more times are you going to visit your parents?

• 1:22:57Speaker 01

  Right, right, exactly.

• 1:22:59Rich Roll?

  But you can just flip it and put it in the rearview with respect to how you deal with your kids and understand that, especially when they're young, like those phases come quick and then they pass and then you're in a new phase. So how present and mindful can you be while you're in that moment with the understanding, like, this is very, very transient and temporary and to just appreciate it? And I think it goes to this idea, like, as dads, you want to create these epic moments for your kids? Like, and my mind will veer towards like, well, we'll go on this vacation or I'll take them to this crazy place and I'm gonna, we're gonna do this adventure. But there are no, like, it's not, it's like this idea of quality time.

• 1:23:41Rich Roll?

  Like, every moment presents the opportunity for quality time. It's the quality of yourself that you bring to the daily experiences, whether it's making oatmeal or walking around the neighborhood at night because your kid won't fall asleep. And.

• 1:23:57Rich Roll?

  As somebody who's, you know, way further down the line, when I think back on all the experiences that I've had with my kids, particularly when they were young, it is those, it is those innocent little moments. They're not, it's not the grand big gestures. It's those tiny little things.

• 1:24:14Speaker 01

  I love that. No such thing as quality time that you have down here. I'm looking at the doc. It's a, that's a great, that's a great observation from 10,000 feet that you kept with you, you know what I mean? Cause you probably use that still.

• 1:24:26Rich Roll?

  Still now.

• 1:24:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah, because they're older and then the phases kind of last a little bit longer and you know, the kind of bumps along the road are a little bit more dramatic, you know, as you get into the teenage years and all of that. But to remember like, oh, this is just another phase too. Like, how can I show up and rather than resist it, just be present with it.

• 1:24:49Speaker 01

  Presence over.

• 1:24:50Rich Roll?

  Can you, and like no matter how, no matter how busy you are, like you put the phone aside.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:56Rich Roll?

  No matter how tired you are, when your kid is like, hey, can we go do this thing? Can I, can come and look at like the thing I drew or whatever? Like the answer is always yes. Doesn't matter how you feel, how tired you are, how busy you are, what phone call you're on, what email you have to send. Like you just say yes, no matter what.

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  That's so cool. I had, um, I forced like a very like iconic dad moment where.

• 1:25:20Rich Roll?

  You forced it?

• 1:25:20Speaker 01

  I forced it. I was like, I was like, you know what? This kid's three. It's time he goes to a baseball game. Like, I don't know anything about pro baseball. We live in Minneapolis. I was like, we'll go see the Twins, get the cheapest tickets. That's also right. That's right. Very dad, right? $18, sit in the top, top thing. We'll get the kid in the shirt, catch a fly ball, something. And, and it's exactly like you just said. It was like, I was creating this thing that's more about.

• 1:25:44Rich Roll?

  It's about you and your expectations.

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, and then we ended up, well, a couple of things. Number one, he's a like a nervous little guy and he's kind of like a very emotional little boy. And he, um, he kept saying, you can barely see the field. You can, you can't see the ball when the pitcher, we're so far away. And he goes, is the ball gonna hit us? Is the ball? We are the cheapest, we are so double balcony. There's, no one's ever hit a ball up there. The game hasn't started. They're warming up. I can't believe his little eyes can see the pitcher's mound. We're cheapest tickets. The first hit, I just promised him, we're not gonna, we're not even gonna see a baseball. You're so safe. First pitch of the game, it's a homerun and it comes up to our section and it almost hit us. And it was so great.

• 1:26:22Adam Skolnick?

  Crazy.

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  It was so crazy and he got scared. He's like, let's get out of here. I was like, let's get out of here. We got out of there and the quality time, the actual presence, fuck the baseball game. We left and just went outside and like, kind of watched traffic and watched the train go by. And it was like, that was the day.

• 1:26:36Adam Skolnick?

  That was it.

• 1:26:37Speaker 01

  It was a day about trains and we happened to be wearing baseball stuff, right? So I, I dial into that small moments piece of giving yourself. It's like so smart. Because it's, if they're not attached to the baseball game.

• 1:26:47Adam Skolnick?

  Our little boys are Sean Penn in Sweet and Low Down. They just wanna watch trains and, and shoot at the rats.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:26:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:26:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  So anyway, it was a, it was a, it was a great day, but not because of my idea or efforts or tickets or any of that.

• 1:27:00Rich Roll?

  But the question is, Skolnick, if you're, if, if Zuma doesn't like baseball, what are you gonna do?

• 1:27:06Adam Skolnick?

  What's more, another question is, if Zuma doesn't like going in the ocean, what am I gonna do?

• 1:27:09Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:27:10Adam Skolnick?

  Nothing, you know, like it's not my, I, I.

• 1:27:12Rich Roll?

  That's the thing.

• 1:27:12Adam Skolnick?

  You know, I'm, I think I'm pretty good. My dad is also like that. My dad met each kid where they were at really well. He like, he loved playing sports with me, but he liked doing the train set with my brother and he like, you know. And for me, I think I come up with that. Like, I don't have fixed ideas of what it is to be a guy or anything in this world. Like, I feel like my dad always had that too. Like, not that he's like over evolved in, in that kind of modern way as we think of it. But like, he just wasn't, he didn't have fixed expectations for anybody. And I think that that's good. That means that there's less pressure. And, uh, and I don't have fixed expectations about, but that's because I, I, I think I cultivate that in my life.

• 1:27:52Adam Skolnick?

  I read the Tao, Ching all the time and like, I, I am, I am very Taoist in that expectations are not my friend. And so I, I try to not have them really.

• 1:28:02Rich Roll?

  That's good.

• 1:28:02Adam Skolnick?

  And, um, and so with him, you know, that's a blessing of being an older dad too. You know, that there's nothing I'm trying to work out. You know, guys, can I be real?

• 1:28:11Rich Roll?

  You're not, you're not giving, giving him a speech about what it means to be a Skolnick?

• 1:28:15Adam Skolnick?

  A few short years ago, I thought I was sterile. Turns out I'm virile. Who knew?

• 1:28:21Rich Roll?

  Good news.

• 1:28:21Adam Skolnick?

  That's the easy backstory. I mean, I was, oh, I'm an older dad. I'm like late 40s. It was not something that was on my, on, on the calendar. It was something that came to us and, you know, we accept life, but it's not something we ever expected.

• 1:28:38Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 1:28:38Adam Skolnick?

  Or tried for. So I think that I keep that in mind. I take that with me going forward, but you know, at the same time, you could look at it the other way. Like, like all these successful kids had these people, especially in sports, had these people driving them, you know, and that's, doesn't seem to be part of my DNA, but.

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, me neither.

• 1:28:57Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  Even as much as I love sport.

• 1:28:58Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  In Minnesota, we tried to teach our kid how to skate. We got him a hockey helmet so it wouldn't bust his face. We tried to teach him how to skate last winter. He mostly kind of not really didn't get it.

• 1:29:07Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  He fell a lot and he's fine with falling. But I remember a bunch of dads looking at how big I am and then looking at that kid, hockey country, and saying, so what month was he born? What high school will he go to?

• 1:29:19Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  And as much as sport has changed my life and been a huge part of who I am, training, fitness, run, whatever, like, I actually go the other way. And I throw those Minnesota dads a curve ball. I'm like, yeah, we're thinking theater. We're thinking dance, you know, and they just do not know what to do with that answer.

• 1:29:34Rich Roll?

  You do that, you do that for a rise, though. You're like, I want to see, I'm going to jack this dude up.

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  We would support whatever is the interest. And I think, I think the parents that are really hoping the kid follows in the footsteps are going to be, are very likely to be.

• 1:29:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah, because it's.

• 1:29:49Adam Skolnick?

  Some work.

• 1:29:50Rich Roll?

  Sometimes. It can, but more often than not, like, it's not rigged that way. Like, in my experience, your kids are, become your teachers because

• 1:29:59Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:29:59Rich Roll?

  they are, you know, developing in ways you didn't expect, or whatever pattern you wanted to like impose upon them becomes, you know, unworkable. And so you have to become fluid and flexible and figure out, you know, what they're inspired by and where their interests lie and, you know, just try to fill that gap. You know, I remember when Tyler and Trapper were like six, like Trapper was always like banging his hand and like, I remember when Julie was like, come on, we're going to Guitar Center and said, sit behind these drums and just like watched him and I was like, oh. He's a drummer.

• 1:30:33Speaker 01

  So cool.

• 1:30:33Rich Roll?

  And you know what he does now?

• 1:30:35Speaker 01

  He's a drummer.

• 1:30:35Rich Roll?

  He's a drummer.

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:30:37Rich Roll?

  You know, got him a drum set. I think he was five or six at the time. Same thing with Tyler with guitar. I mean, Mathis was just a Hellion, like, running around, just throwing stuff all over the place. So Julie let her paint on all the walls. Just said, go for it. Here's paint. Like, do whatever you want. Like, the how, I mean, we had this, like, new, like, this modern, you know, she's like, I don't care. I want a house of life rather than, you know, a pristine house. And, and now, and, you know, would literally go and stretch giant canvases for her also and put them outside and just let her, like, you know, Mathis, two years old, like, naked, like, throwing paint at these, at these canvases.

• 1:31:16Rich Roll?

  And now she's applying to art school. So you never know. And I think it's just about, yeah, Julie, yeah, like, I'm like, I'm learning, yeah, like, Julie's the one who should be sitting here. You know, this was all Julie. Yeah. Well, but the idea of like, oh, I see a little thing here. Like, how can I go move in and like, fill that?

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  The one thing, but the one thing, and this is a dad question for you, not the two of us in the early stages, is like, but when do you know that you've tried something? Like, when, like, if a kid this week is interested in the violin, and next week is interested in gymnastics, do you just press go on everything? Or is there a point where you say, no, we're gonna do a second week of violin. We're gonna try this for a third week.

• 1:31:55Rich Roll?

  I think that's a delicate dance.

• 1:31:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:31:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's really hard to figure out what that is. You should read David Epstein's book, Range, though, because it's kind of all about that. It's really a study, a look at, like, all of these crazy high performers who've become super successful in every kind of field, from science to athletics. And it destroys that notion of, like, the Todd Marinoviches and the Tiger Woods, who just, like, are maniacs from little kids and just, just go all in on one thing. Most of the people who are wildly successful in their chosen field tried a million different things for a very long time. And we're kind of late bloomers to the thing that finally becomes their thing.

• 1:32:38Rich Roll?

  So I think the balance of the effort should be in exposing young people to as many things as possible. And when they want to pull out, sometimes you gotta hit the brakes and say, well, we, you know, you said you would do, like, make a commitment ahead of time. We're gonna do this for six months, or a month, or whatever it is. Hold them to that. To some regard, because it's important for them to learn like, oh, you made a commitment. You have to show up even when you don't feel like it. But at some point, it's like, okay, this is not going to be their thing. They want to go do over here. That's fine.

• 1:33:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:33:10Rich Roll?

  And not, I think, you know, like the generation before us or my parents' generation. It's like, no, this is what you're doing.

• 1:33:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, you play baseball.

• 1:33:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And, and didn't let us or, you know, pull out or try as many things as maybe we should. And maybe now we do too much of the latter. So there's some sweet spot in the middle there, I think.

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, the idea of how long, like, what's the shortest period that you can try something? But, you know.

• 1:33:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Yeah, Mathis did hockey for a while and then she's like, I'm done.

• 1:33:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:39Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 1:33:39Adam Skolnick?

  The, uh, like, as soon as he shows up with goggles instead of mask, I'll be like, we're Skolnicks. We're mask people.

• 1:33:46Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:33:46Adam Skolnick?

  We wear the mask.

• 1:33:47Rich Roll?

  If you're, yeah, if Zuma shows up with swim goggles and says, but I like goggles.

• 1:33:54Adam Skolnick?

  Did Uncle Rich talk to you? I like normal goggles, Dad. Yeah, I don't want to be one of those mask dorks like you and your friends.

• 1:34:02Rich Roll?

  Dad, you're the only guy. You're literally the only guy in the ocean.

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  I'm wearing a mask.

• 1:34:09Rich Roll?

  My dad's the mask dad.

• 1:34:11Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah. Why did your dad wear that weird mask, bro?

• 1:34:14Rich Roll?

  And when you drop me off in the car at school, you're wearing it.

• 1:34:17Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah. You, you don't have to wear it when you drop me off at school.

• 1:34:21Rich Roll?

  PTO meetings.

• 1:34:23Adam Skolnick?

  My, uh, you know, a lot of people don't realize it, but one of my, uh, dad idols is, um,

• 1:34:33Adam Skolnick?

  I'm screwing up who the. Nice.

• 1:34:37Rich Roll?

  He's so important to you. You can't remember who it is?

• 1:34:40Speaker 01

  Tenenbaums.

• 1:34:40Adam Skolnick?

  Got it.

• 1:34:40Rich Roll?

  Oh, Royal Tenenbaum? Royal Tenenbaum?

• 1:34:43Speaker 01

  Royal Tenenbaum is my dad.

• 1:34:44Rich Roll?

  Model father.

• 1:34:45Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, yeah, got it.

• 1:34:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:46Adam Skolnick?

  Got it.

• 1:34:47Rich Roll?

  How about, uh, how about, um, Logan Roy in Succession? Another model father.

• 1:34:52Adam Skolnick?

  Another great guy. Another nice fella.

• 1:34:55Speaker 01

  He's a nice fella.

• 1:34:57Adam Skolnick?

  Hero dads.

• 1:34:58Speaker 01

  Who are some hero dads?

• 1:35:01Adam Skolnick?

  Other than Royal and, and?

• 1:35:03Rich Roll?

  Logan.

• 1:35:03Adam Skolnick?

  Logan.

• 1:35:05Rich Roll?

  Rupert. Rupert Murdoch. Who do you, who do you look to, Brogan?

• 1:35:12Rich Roll?

  Brogan.

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  I don't know, man. There's a couple in San Diego, I will not, I will not name drop, but they have five kids and they're all seemingly within the same year, like they're all like the same age, pretty much. And they just live and not just like the IG, not just the Instagram, like posting the smiley pictures. They really just live an optimistic life. So that idea of like when your kid, when your baby's like a lot, in a certain day, you do that thing where you're like, well, it's not twins, right? I think of them all the time. It's just like, they're soaking it up and this dad seems to be on fire with just like, true optimism, five kids. So that to me is like, there's something there just about perspective or patience or all of the above.

• 1:35:52Rich Roll?

  Talk about. One of the things. For sure. You know, you.

• 1:35:55Speaker 01

  These good half decade there.

• 1:35:57Rich Roll?

  You know, we all have that experience of going on Instagram and there are people who are living more, you know, interesting lives or more aspirational lives and you feel like, ah, what am I doing? Or you feel less than. The thing that really gets me though, is dads being amazing dads on Instagram that make me feel insecure about my dadding ability. Where I'm like, yeah, I really wasn't as good as I could have been when they were younger. When I see dads being incredible, that like gets me every time. Like scout the dog on Bluey. Less than, or you know, just some, you know, there's these videos that circulate around and like it's some dad doing something amazing with their young kid. Right. I know, but they're putting it on Instagram. Yeah, I know.

• 1:36:41Rich Roll?

  So it's kind of phony. They call BS on that. But, but sometimes it's captured by someone else and they put it on. I prefer to see Brogan like skateboarding. Something. And I think the reason I bring that up is if I feel that way, I'm sure there's a lot of other dads who feel that way. And I think it's, it's the degree of like dadding difficulty is, is intimidating because you're expected to be the provider. You're also, you know, sort of supposed to be the strong guy who kind of lays down the boundary and the law, but you also have to be heartfelt and vulnerable and emotionally available and. But all of those things are also immutable now. You're now expected to go to every school function. Like there was somebody who tweeted, it was a

• 1:37:24Rich Roll?

  really funny tweet. It's like, uh, um.

• 1:37:29Rich Roll?

  I think it was, I can't remember who it was, maybe Patton Oswalt's brother. He was like, I'm, I'm retiring from my career to commit myself full-time to reading my kids' school emails.

• 1:37:41Adam Skolnick?

  That's funny.

• 1:37:41Rich Roll?

  Like, like, I could tell you, when your kids get older and there's like, I literally get maybe, I get at least two, maybe three to five emails a day from each of the schools that my kids go to. Like, I get like at least 10 emails a day.

• 1:37:58Adam Skolnick?

  Too much communication.

• 1:37:59Rich Roll?

  And it's like, I can't like, I'm, will you be this? Do you want to be on the advisory committee? Don't forget about the bake sale and then this thing is happening. And I was like, it's, it's unbelievable. And then as a dad now, you're not like, you're not Don Draper. Like, you gotta show up for all this stuff. And it's like 2 o'clock on a Tuesday. And I'm self-employed for the, you know, so I have flexibility over my schedule. But like, what about the guy who does go to an office every day and is expected to work from, I mean, how are you feeling when you, look, I can't leave my job to go to the thing?

• 1:38:29Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  The guy who can't go to any of that. I mean.

• 1:38:32Adam Skolnick?

  That's why Don Draper became Don Draper, because he started getting those emails and he just was like, I'm gonna go the other way.

• 1:38:38Rich Roll?

  Well, he created, he created zero expectations that he will ever show up for anything.

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  Yes, he literally left his daughter's birthday, sixth birthday party and came out with a dog.

• 1:38:47Rich Roll?

  But then also, I know amazing human beings who were raised by fathers like that.

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. We get that, we get the emails, Lumi's in preschool, so, but I think we probably get three to five a day from preschool. Now, they're not informational, it's just him doing finger paintings. It's super cute, but I get it.

• 1:39:00Rich Roll?

  At some point.

• 1:39:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's going that way. I just think, I also think there's room for, for every Instagram dad that's doing like some really cute dance moment thing, which is good. I think that exposes like a good role and it's good to see, it's good modeling. I also think it's okay to, you know, admit some of the mess-ups, you know? You said something about skateboarding, when we moved to Minneapolis, I put my kid in a helmet and I missed the boardwalk in California, so I put him on the front of a skateboard. Something I've never done before. He was one and a half years old.

• 1:39:25Adam Skolnick?

  Right.

• 1:39:25Speaker 01

  And we went out and, and it was like. I mean, we definitely, in the same moment, went off a crack in the sidewalk and just both went down really, really hard and used the shit out of our helmets, right? Kid's fine, I was fine, no crying, and I looked over and a neighbor saw me and she goes, like, she was very nice, she goes, "Are you guys okay?" And I was like, "Yeah," and the kid actually is fine, and I just remember being like, "That looked outrageously terrible." And I think there's something that's okay about admitting mistakes and fuck-ups because there was a good intention behind it. Maybe I was trying to adventure more than I was ready for, but it's like, that can be funny, that can be dadding.

• 1:39:58Adam Skolnick?

  And I think that like-

• 1:39:59Speaker 01

  And don't tell mom. And don't tell mom that vibe, right? We tried something, I screwed up.

• 1:40:03Rich Roll?

  We're gonna keep a secret.

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:40:04Rich Roll?

  That's a good practice and model.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  There's a crack in your helmet.

• 1:40:07Rich Roll?

  We're not, we're not gonna tell mom.

• 1:40:08Speaker 01

  We're going shopping for a new helmet.

• 1:40:10Adam Skolnick?

  But mom will find out.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was no concussion, um, I think. But anyway, like, the idea of, like, trading notes on things that didn't work and things that did work, like, no one's really getting an A+ on this thing, we're just kinda stumbling through it, so.

• 1:40:22Adam Skolnick?

  And you know what? I'm gonna end this by a shout out to the moms, because I know, uh, I mean, obviously, I don't know Goldie, but, um, obviously, we know Julie's incredible wisdom and intuition and, and abilities, uh, and leadership qualities have been really helpful, and, and like, April, listen, man, it's, the reason I can be kind of more chill in my role is because, uh, I mean, like, 85% of the work is being taken off my plate, so.

• 1:40:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and Brogan is here in Los Angeles, while Goldie is at home right now.

• 1:40:57Speaker 01

  I'm here.

• 1:40:58Rich Roll?

  With a newborn and Lumi.

• 1:41:00Speaker 01

  I'm at the table.

• 1:41:01Rich Roll?

  Well, and I told you this- God bless that woman. You're like, "I'm gonna go to, hey babe, I know, I know we got like a brand new newborn, but like, roll on his calling and I gotta, I gotta, you know, break bread with Skullneck?"

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. Skullneck and I, Skullneck and I have to, like, squash the beef, plus there's these ads I gotta read, it makes no sense. And I told you this, I told you this because we FaceTimed with Adam Skolnick. So she's, she's a new fan of his, but she's a fan of yours and she, she pressed go on the idea because, because she does, she spent a lot of time with you guys on walks, getting ready to deliver this baby and so it's cool. So shout out to all the moms.

• 1:41:40Rich Roll?

  Shout out.

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  That make adding space possible, that make any margins possible. And, and at the same time, you know, keep telling positive dad stories, man.

• 1:41:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think, I think if there's another little kernel in there, it's that it's important to make sure that within the very limited spectrum of time that you have, that you do carve out a little bit of time to nourish yourself and whatever that is. So for you right now, it's this dramatic, you know, sort of stroke of like coming out here, but on some level, like you're being nourished by this experience. You're, this is very Brogan for you to be here.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  100%.

• 1:42:17Rich Roll?

  Goldie knows like, oh, I need to let Brogan do this because when he comes back, he'll be a better and more present dad.

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:25Rich Roll?

  That's an extreme example of something I think you could practice on the daily, whether it's Adam, you getting the opportunity to go jump in the ocean a couple of times a week or whatever it is. Like you gotta be able to hold on to that and not become completely consumed by the experience because if you do, then you'll start to get resentful and that compounded by the fatigue and the sleep deprivation, all of that is going to get expressed in an unhealthy way.

• 1:42:52Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, fitness is key. You know, like you cannot let go of the fitness strand, in my opinion. Like I, for me, it's been very key because being, again, I keep saying this, but it is true, an older dad. And so, uh, like I'm looking, I'm looking at chasing down this kid who comes with mothers very athletic and, and I need to be able to. You know, be present. So I look at it as part of my job as a dad to stay fit. And I think it's true. And it also helps you process the stress and all the sleeplessness and all the, all the other kind of nasty thoughts that want to creep into your head. So, which we all know, being people who care about exercise and love doing it, just because

• 1:43:33Adam Skolnick?

  it's fun. That is also, as we know, a very important byproduct. So it's, I think, yes, the first month, take your time, whatever, but like, find it. You gotta find the margin for that.

• 1:43:45Rich Roll?

  And make sure that you're providing that opportunity for your partner.

• 1:43:51Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:51Rich Roll?

  Right? So we were joking, Brogan, it's your birthday next week. You're like, well, you know, yeah, it's canceled because you're here, right? So what are you gonna do? Go back? And like, so I said, what you should do, what you should ask for, for your birthday is the opportunity to provide Goldie with like a spa day. You know, like you can't, I mean, it's, this is like, oh, what do the dads need? It's like, well, you know, any, any woman who's a mom who's listening to this is gonna be like, are you fucking kidding? She's already flipped us off six times.

• 1:44:19Speaker 01

  No, for sure. For sure. The amount of moms have fallen off drastically.

• 1:44:23Rich Roll?

  Like, oh, listen to these guys.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  As the episode continues on.

• 1:44:25Rich Roll?

  Right. All the women are becoming.

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  There's no moms left at this point. There's no more moms at this point in the podcast.

• 1:44:29Adam Skolnick?

  No, gone.

• 1:44:31Speaker 01

  No, yeah. I mean, providing your partner with the space, I mean, that, that is, that is key. And Goldie's super active. And so to get her 30 minute walk or 30 minute run, she's about to get cleared pretty soon to work out again, hopefully, and all those things. So.

• 1:44:43Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:43Rich Roll?

  Right. To make sure. Spotty for my birthday. That, that, that they're being nourished in the manner in which they deserve, I think, is key.

• 1:44:52Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah. And, you know, April's gonna run the Malibu half marathon. It's her idea. Like, I'm just tagging along and she's gonna break two hours and I'm gonna get there when I get there.

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  Totally. Yeah. You might not see that. Yeah. You'll be parking.

• 1:45:05Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, she'll be gone after like the third mile.

• 1:45:08Rich Roll?

  You gotta earn your spot on the far, the far, the far club, run club. Yeah, I'm in the far behind club. I'm in the far, I'll be the head of the far behind. Far behind. Yeah. I like it.

• 1:45:18Speaker 01

  It's cool.

• 1:45:19Rich Roll?

  All right. I think we've put a bow on it. Final thought, keep the phone away from them as long as possible.

• 1:45:25Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah, when you're checking Instagram while they're playing, make sure they can't see it.

• 1:45:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, yeah, so when my Zoom is sleeping, I'm

• 1:45:32Rich Roll?

  You think they can't see it. They know. They know. It's not what you say, it's how you The most important thing is it's not what you say, it's how you behave. It's what you're doing.

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:42Rich Roll?

  And that's how they're modeling their behavior.

• 1:45:45Speaker 01

  Oh, that's, I thought we were ending on a happy note.

• 1:45:48Rich Roll?

  It is, a little self-reflection there.

• 1:45:52Adam Skolnick?

  Sheesh.

• 1:45:53Rich Roll?

  Whoa, didn't think about that one.

• 1:45:55Speaker 01

  Broz.

• 1:45:56Adam Skolnick?

  Sheesh. Brogan, beef squash, my friend.

• 1:45:59Speaker 01

  Love you, man.

• 1:46:00Adam Skolnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:00Speaker 01

  I think you're, I think you're incredible.

• 1:46:03Rich Roll?

  Thank you.

• 1:46:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm a fan.

• 1:46:04Rich Roll?

  I appreciate it.

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  I'm a fan of the roll-on, and it got me back into the Rich Roll Podcast, and you know how I feel about you. Love letters for days.

• 1:46:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, man. Love you, Adam. I'm so glad I was able to curate the experience of us all being together.

• 1:46:18Speaker 01

  You do this. You do this out in the world.

• 1:46:20Rich Roll?

  Well, you're the one who got on a plane and came here.

• 1:46:22Speaker 01

  You do this in the world.

• 1:46:23Adam Skolnick?

  This is what you are.

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you do it at the table. Look at this.

• 1:46:27Rich Roll?

  What does your Brogan do?

• 1:46:30Speaker 01

  What does this roll-on do? It's good. It's good.

• 1:46:34Rich Roll?

  I'll have to think about that. All right, love you guys. We're gonna take another quick break, then we're gonna be back with my conversation with ultra-runner Robbie Balenger. You know him as the guy who ran across America. He broke the record for most Central Park loops in 24 hours. Ran 100 miles. And his most recent accomplishment, doing this Colorado Crush insanity, which entailed an entire summer of killing Colorado Peaks 14ers. He traversed the Colorado Trail, he completed Leadville, all kinds of stuff. So, this conversation again was recorded live at the legendary Explorers Club in New York City as part of my 10,000 Far Capsule Launch Party celebration, and it's coming right up. Love you guys.

• 1:47:17Adam Skolnick?

  But is he a dad?

• 1:47:18Rich Roll?

  But, no, he's not a dad.

• 1:47:20Adam Skolnick?

  See, so that's pretty easy for a non-dad.

• 1:47:22Rich Roll?

  He's married. Oh.

• 1:47:23Speaker 01

  I was gonna do that.

• 1:47:24Rich Roll?

  So you could be dismissive of anybody who does anything amazing because they don't have kids?

• 1:47:28Adam Skolnick?

  If I had the hours, how many laps I do around Central Park?

• 1:47:31Speaker 01

  Sounds like big margins to me.

• 1:47:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, if I didn't have kids,

• 1:47:34Speaker 01

  Huge margins on that guy.

• 1:47:35Rich Roll?

  I could break that record. All right. Peace.

• 1:47:40Speaker 01

  Namaste.

• 1:47:50Rich Roll?

  Thank you, everybody, for coming out. Like I said before the run, this is a celebration of a creative collaboration with 10,000. I'm so proud of the kit. How do you like the kit, Robbie?

• 1:48:04Speaker 05

  It's amazing.

• 1:48:05Rich Roll?

  It's good. You have to say that, right? Right now, we're up here on the spot. I am really proud of it. It was really amazing to collaborate with such a talented group of people. I've never worked with a company that was more responsive to athlete feedback. The number of samples that I continued to get in the mail over the course of a year was insane. I couldn't believe how immersive it was as an experience, and it was really creatively fulfilling. So I just want to thank everybody at 10,000, Keith, of course, Dominic, Travis, Brian, everybody who collaborated on what we're here to celebrate today. So, thank you, guys. It's really proud. I'm really proud to be here.

• 1:48:49Rich Roll?

  I have the distinct honor of hosting a conversation with my friend Robbie here, Robbie Balenger. Many of you probably know Robbie already. He's distinguished himself as an extraordinary athlete and ambassador of running, not only as he's run across the United States, he recently broke the 24-hour Central Park Loop record. Did I say that right? I don't know what it's called exactly.

• 1:49:15Speaker 05

  Central Park Loop Challenge.

• 1:49:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and you ran how many miles in Central Park?

• 1:49:20Speaker 05

  So, it's actually, it's the hours it's open. So it's from 6:00 a.m. until midnight is the time you have to run, which is 19 hours. I finished in 18 hours and 7 minutes with 16 loops, so it was 98 miles and some change.

• 1:49:33Rich Roll?

  Right, but then you made sure you tagged on a few miles.

• 1:49:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, we tagged it on to get it to 100. Like, what's the point of getting that far and not, you know, going to 100? Three digits always looks better than two.

• 1:49:44Rich Roll?

  So, 98.6 miles in 17 hours?

• 1:49:49Speaker 05

  18 hours and 7 minutes.

• 1:49:51Rich Roll?

  So, most of you, many of you, I'm sure, have run the full, is it 6.2, the full Central Park Loop, right? Raise your hand if you've done that loop. How many of you can imagine running that for 98.6 miles?

• 1:50:05Speaker 05

  Yeah. Harlem Hill gets real big.

• 1:50:10Rich Roll?

  I've had the privilege of watching Robbie evolve as a runner. I met him on the very first day of his attempt to cross the country by foot. I was like, "Who's this guy? I didn't really know that much about him." We ran for a couple of miles and then he went on his way and I thought, "I don't know if I'll ever see that guy again or whether he's gonna make it or not." And I've watched this individual continue to double down, iterate, and improve as an athlete. And you've really matured into this incredible ambassador of the sport. So I just wanted to credit you for that. And it's been so great to watch you take on and tackle these challenges. I'm like, "Catch your breath, you know? Take a break for a minute."

• 1:50:53Rich Roll?

  But let's talk about what you did this past summer, the Colorado Crush. So maybe explain to people what you spent most of your entire summer doing.

• 1:51:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, so the Colorado Crush consisted of three parts. It started with the Leadville Trail Series. So Leadville, town in Colorado at 10,000 feet. It's the highest incorporated town in Colorado. They have a race series in June. There is a marathon. July, a 50-miler. And August, 100. So I did all of those. Between the marathon and the 50-miler, I ran the Colorado Trail. So 485 miles. I did that in 11 days. And then between the 50-miler and the 100, I summited all 58 peaks over 14,000 feet in Colorado. So cumulatively, when I got done, it was just under 1,200 miles. And then the stat that I'm really proud of is it was 308,000 feet of elevation gain.

• 1:51:43Speaker 05

  So that's the equivalent of summiting Everest from sea to summit 10 and 1/2 times in two months.

• 1:51:49Rich Roll?

  We are in the Explorers Club, so it seems fitting, right? I'm like, "I don't know where to go with that." I think what's amazing is, you know, it's easy for somebody to hear that and think, "Well, that's...I can't even connect with that. Like, that's so outrageous, that you must just be some freak of nature." But you're not somebody who's been doing this for actually all that long. So maybe catch people up who don't know a little bit about your backstory, how you got into running, because this is relatively a recent phenomenon, this kind of life overhaul that you've been on.

• 1:52:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, I grew up in athletics. I played team sports, predominantly football. Believe it or not, I was an offensive lineman.

• 1:52:34Rich Roll?

  How much did you weigh?

• 1:52:36Speaker 05

  I was not like a big one. I had fast feet and that kind of has carried over. But I probably weighed about, I think my heaviest was actually after that in college. I weighed like 225. I'm about 175 now. And then post-high school, a little bit of college, I ended up in the restaurant industry for many years, ending with owning, being part-owner in some Neapolitan pizzerias in Austin, Texas. And in that time, I was just like living that restaurant lifestyle, work hard, party real hard. And it wasn't really adding up to me being the leader I wanted to be for these restaurants. And on the encouragement of my fiancee Shelley, she invited me on a two-and-a-half-mile run.

• 1:53:20Speaker 05

  And that was it. Like, it changed my life. And it's just been since then, like, two-and-a-half miles turned into a half-marathon two months later, a marathon the next year, 50-miler. And then I left the restaurants and I didn't know what I wanted to do next. And some things kind of coalesced and I decided I was going to run across the United States. And I would do it to create conversations about better food choices and promote the efficacy of a plant-based diet. And so that was where this, like, I kind of made my name in the running scene. And then it's just been since then, a couple more big efforts and refining what matters to me about running and what are the things I need to be the best runner I can.

• 1:54:00Rich Roll?

  So when you're, and this gets into kind of the theme or the ethos of what today is all about, like, when you're running across America, or you're running Leadville, or in the midst of one of these unbelievable challenges, like, what is going on in your mind? Like, what is your brain doing? And how are you, you know, staying on track and not letting, you know, kind of the dark demons get the best of you?

• 1:54:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, for me, like... That's the problem with these things. One leads to the next. Because where I dream up the next challenge is usually on the one before it. But while I'm out there, I mean, it's just, running is where I go to better understand myself, to just hash through all the parts of me that need work on. And like, I think you can't really work on something until you can identify it. And on runs is where I identify things. It's like, okay, this is a part of me. This is why I do this thing I do. And now, let me sift through what that is and what it means to me. And like, this summer, I've been on this long journey of, my father died when I was really, really young. I realized, kind of through the TransCon run, that a lot of what I was doing was trying to define what it means to be a man.

• 1:55:10Speaker 05

  And then this summer, starting with the Central Park Loop Challenge, which I did here in New York, right before that, my uncle died, my dad's brother. And that brought all that back to the surface. And so, from there, it was sifting through this of just like, what does this mean? And I think what I came to through the Colorado Trail, especially part of the summer's effort, is I went, I came to peace with that. And I realized that I'm no longer looking for what it means, I'm just expressing it. I'm expressing my version of what it means to be a man. So that's, that was like, the big thing that came out of this summer. But it's always something new, and it's always a place for me to, yeah, just figure those things out and then dream about the next thing.

• 1:55:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I feel like there's, there's a fine line between the indulgence of running at the ultra level like you, like, the way that you engage with it. On the one hand, it can be a lever for ordinary self-improvement, unlocking, you know, hidden potential, becoming the best version of yourself. But the flip side, it can literally use running to run away from those very things, those demons that you're trying to hide from. And I see both versions of that. So I'm curious whether you've come up against that. Like, at some point, if you're doing so many challenges, the question has to be asked, like, are you running away from something, or are you running towards something?

• 1:56:31Rich Roll?

  So how do you kind of think about that and?

• 1:56:35Speaker 05

  I mean, thus far, just all the markers say that it's going in the right direction. I'm running towards something.

• 1:56:40Rich Roll?

  You're in a healthy relationship still.

• 1:56:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I've still got my fiance. And yeah, I mean, thus far, it's redefining me as a person in a way that seems all positive. I understand that there's that other side of it. My mom asked me that once. She's like, is this just an addiction? And I was like, it's better than the old ones, like, you know?

• 1:56:58Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah. Yeah, my friend Mish gets to me, because he gets asked that same question. The way he answers it is, the drink or the drug was always the easy choice. Putting on the running shoes is the hard choice.

• 1:57:14Speaker 05

  Absolutely, and it builds resilience in the rest of your life. You know, like, just the getting out on the run. I live in Denver, Colorado, and like, as I was preparing for the Central Park Loop Challenge, like, a big thing I was doing was getting out and running when it was really cold. And a lot of that was just about gaining that get up and go muscle, you know? Just like, really, because I'm gonna do a loop around Central Park, I'm gonna stop, I'm gonna see my family, my friends, I gotta get back out there. And so, just building that resiliency. Yeah, so thus far, for me, I feel like running's been very positive.

• 1:57:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So, what does free association run mean to you, Robbie Balenger?

• 1:57:49Speaker 05

  I think, like, to me, like, when I think of that, I think a lot about, Knox Robinson's here, right? And he, you know, he's mentioned, I think it was him that said, like, running is rebellion. I think running is also selfish, but I don't think selfish has to be a bad word. Like, it's a place where you get to commune with yourself. And this summer, what I realized, being in the mountains compared to running on the side of the road, is like, there's this world that we live in, and all the technology and everything, it has all these great things, but it also can really beat you down. And like, when I got out on the trail, I realized none of that was there, even to more of an extent than I normally do. But in that, that running's kind of selfish, we just get to disassociate with all of these things that just can kind of drive us nuts in a way, even when we don't know it.

• 1:58:34Speaker 05

  And you get to be centered with yourself, and you get to learn from yourself. Like, we, the most growth comes internally. And again, it's back to that idea of just sifting through who I am, the things I want to do. And often, you, because you're running, there's no barriers to where your thought goes. Like, often, I come home with an idea and I have to rein it in. I'm like, that was great, but like, let's be realistic here.

• 1:58:56Rich Roll?

  How do you, one of the problems that I have is I'll have those sparks of inspiration when I'm out running, and I don't want to stop and like type them into a note or like record a way like, because that interrupts the thing. But if I don't do that, then they become very elusive and they might like when I'm, I'll forget them quickly. So it's always a challenge to figure out how to like capture the best of what might percolate up during a run versus interrupting that flow. How do you, how do you deal with that?

• 1:59:24Speaker 05

  I think I wait until it happens a couple of times.

• 1:59:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:26Speaker 05

  You know, I run a lot, so it's like when those ideas come and pop into my head a couple of times on a run, then they resonate and I remember them. I'm sure there's a lot I've missed. But also sometimes stop and write them down. Like I don't, I'm not, I'm not a very fast runner. I just go really far. And in that like, running should be enjoyable. So when I'm out on a run, I'm not usually worried about splits. I'll take that time to just like calm down, write it down and keep going. But I wouldn't say often, more it's just they, those things that come up often mean they need to be paid attention to.

• 1:59:56Rich Roll?

  Right. If you follow Robbie on Instagram, he always shares photos that he takes during his run. So I know that you're at least stopping a little bit to like enjoy the experience. And I was joking after the run that we just had, the intention for the run was for it to be silent, for us to have that free association experience, to kind of pay attention to the breath, to, you know, get into that higher state of consciousness where creativity can percolate up and we can associate disparate ideas and kind of have that spark of inspiration. But instead, there was a lot of talk nonetheless, and I was as guilty of that as anyone else.

• 2:00:36Rich Roll?

  And it made me think like, you know, the idea was like come back and share what that experience was about or what came up for you. And for me, it was this, it was a couple of things. One, like extreme gratitude to just be in New York City in the fall and run, like what an extraordinary privilege it is to run in New York City and to be part of this community. Like I do a lot of my running alone. I live in a pretty remote place and I'm just out trail running by myself. And it reminded me how important community is and how good that felt to be with a group of like-minded people. And running for me and my relationship with it is this combination of that solo experience

• 2:01:17Rich Roll?

  where you can go deep on yourself and really kind of be in that active meditation space that is so healthy and kind of healing for me. And then on the flip side of that, to have the community experience. And you as somebody who goes really long, I mean, I want to talk about the Colorado Crush and that experience in a little bit more detail. But one of the things that I think was notable about it was it was this combination of these solo expeditions, but then you would pop in on these races and have kind of that communal like succor, you know, to get fed by, you know, your fellow community runners.

• 2:01:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely. It was a place to come in and commune with others. Absolutely. Like the effort, Colorado Crush was those three efforts and they all kind of ended up being meaning something different for me individually. And it was that like the races were communal. It was a place to celebrate running with all these other people in this beautiful town of Leadville. And then the Colorado Trail was very introspective. It was just me on the trail, long swaths of time while I was by myself. Like there was one day I was out, it was 56 miles and it took me 19 and a half hours and I didn't have any crew through all of that. So like a lot of time to just commune with myself. And then the 14ers were just this immense amount of gratitude. Like when you get to wake up every day and see sunrise on the top of a mountain, like you're just like, I'm so lucky.

• 2:02:41Speaker 05

  Like it was just so much gratitude for it. So each of them kind of had their own specific meaning in there.

• 2:02:46Rich Roll?

  So you were driving around in this van, right? It had your name on it. Do you still have the van?

• 2:02:50Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 2:02:51Rich Roll?

  Did you drive the van here?

• 2:02:52Speaker 05

  No, no, no, no.

• 2:02:53Rich Roll?

  I was hoping that you would have it, that when I showed up here, it would be parked out front.

• 2:02:57Speaker 05

  No, I drove enough this summer. Colorado, you can drive a lot in that state if you want to. Like I've seen every inch of it, so.

• 2:03:05Rich Roll?

  Let's talk a little bit about the Run Across America. I mean, we did a podcast on that where we went into it at length, but a lot of people here may not have heard that. Maybe just share a few. Well, first of all, explain the process of how you did that, how many miles you were running every day, and then maybe share a couple highlights and low points in tackling that challenge.

• 2:03:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, so it was 3,175 miles. I did it in 75 days. So from Huntington Beach, just south of Los Angeles, to Central Park. It was me really venturing into this big ultra endurance efforts. And looking back, like I probably bit off a tiny bit more than I could chew. I got it done, but I pushed my mind, my body every day to the limit. And it was done to, again, about being plant-based, and that was new to me. So it was something I really wanted to talk to others about. And I wanted to prove to myself that it was the right choice. And I proved to myself that it was. It's definitely what works for me. Along the way, there were lots of highs and lows. The first month, much harder than the rest of it.

• 2:04:11Speaker 05

  Well, all of it was really hard, but it got a little bit easier after a month. Day 19, I really probably came to my darkest place and ended up having to take a day off. I had like really bad tendonitis in my leg. And in that day, though, in retrospect, a lot of growth came out of it. It was the one moment where I wasn't sure if I'd be able to continue. And in that, you kind of give yourself up to the energy of the world, a higher power, whatever it might be. And that was really important for me. Like somebody that just grips tightly to control, letting that go and realizing that it was too big for me to just like force it the whole time and having to go with the flow, put one foot in front of the other, and yeah, take it day by day. So that was definitely like low,

• 2:04:55Speaker 05

  but also one of the highest points. The Navajo Nation in general is just a really beautiful place. I ran through that for like eight days. A special, special place that I truly loved. Yeah, it was just great. Appalachians will absolutely crush your soul, though. Like Pennsylvania, really hard. Like, yeah.

• 2:05:14Rich Roll?

  He's so casual and cavalier about this stuff. Like, it's no big deal. Like, it's crazy what you've done. The thing that really stands out for me about you and kind of how you approach your running and your athleticism is that there's this service piece to it in that when you're not in the midst of tackling your own challenge, you pop in on these other people's challenges and help them along. So you were a big part of Hella Sidibe's Run Across America the other summer. He also ended up here in New York City and would have been here today, but he's out of town, I guess. And then also, you were just in the UK helping out some other guy in some other crazy challenge. And I just like the idea that you give yourself over.

• 2:05:58Rich Roll?

  Like, there's a humility to that, I think, that you have this practice of showing up in service to other people who are trying to do things similar to what you've done. So talk a little bit about how that plays into how you think of yourself as an athlete and a man, because this whole idea of like how to be a man is a big part for you.

• 2:06:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, with both of those guys, like, I think that, like, why we, we're the three of us. I'm dear friends with both of them now. But it all came from a place of meeting them both and through our meeting, understanding that they wanted their challenge as bad as I wanted mine. And you need people to help you along the way. And, you know, in mine, like, certain people stood up and took the lead to help me make it happen. And I saw an opportunity to do that for both of these guys. And they're just two people, too, that are just like, you know, there's those people in life that just resonate with you and like, they're like brothers and you just know it right away. And luckily, both of them are that for me. And then, you know, they're both very different people. I mean, Hella, if anyone has, is familiar with Hella, I think most people are at this point. He's becoming an icon.

• 2:07:02Speaker 05

  He just is, there's a great, you're just attracted to him. He's just, he's just such a positive person. And I try to be positive, but the more you're around Hella, it rubs off. So I get something out of it, too. And that's a really big deal. And then William Gooch, who I just helped, he did 48 and 30. He ran 48 marathons in each county in England in 30 days, ending with the London Marathon where he ran a 306.

• 2:07:26Rich Roll?

  Like, 48 marathons in 30 days?

• 2:07:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:07:31Rich Roll?

  In different places.

• 2:07:32Speaker 05

  Each county, so we were hopping around. And with him, it was a little bit different. When I met him, I went over right after we did our podcast. I went over to the UK and he did joggle, John O'Groats to Lands End. He started at the tip of Scotland and went to the bottom. He was not ready. He bluffed his training 16 days. He got it done. It was like 60 something, 59 miles a day. But he was on the heels of his mother passing, Mandy. She died of cancer. And so our, like, our bond comes through that loss. Because my father died when I was young. That has a lot to do with why I run. William definitely runs for Mandy. And I don't know anybody else in my circle that that's why we run. So that's kind of our kinmanship. And he's 10 years younger than me. And he's like a little brother, like a bigger little brother.

• 2:08:17Speaker 05

  But yeah, he's, yeah.

• 2:08:19Rich Roll?

  When you were back in the restaurant industry, could you have imagined this life that you're living now?

• 2:08:26Speaker 05

  Absolutely not.

• 2:08:27Rich Roll?

  It wasn't that long ago, right?

• 2:08:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, it still shocks me. My birthday was just the other day and I posted on Instagram about that. I was like, five years ago, I'd have never thought I am where I am now. And what I realized about that that's really exciting is that means I don't know where I'm going to be in five more years. And that's really fun to like, know that every day is new. And if you embrace life and go with the flow and sometimes force things, like, life can be really exciting.

• 2:08:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So there may be people in this room who are in the earlier stages of trying to figure out who they want to be, the trajectory that they're on. Maybe they're considering some life changes or some pivots. So talk a little bit about how you figured that out for yourself and how you got yourself into a state of mind to make some pretty drastic changes and incur some risk and kind of blaze this unique path that you've been on.

• 2:09:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I think it, everything I do, I put myself into wholeheartedly, like 110%, everything. And with that, like, you give yourself fully. There's a point, there might be a breaking point where you've given yourself so much that you kind of break. And that's kind of what happened with me with the restaurants. It was almost like there wasn't a choice. Like, it was over. I had to take a break from that. And with that, my mom always said, has told me when I was a kid, you can do anything you set your mind to. And so like, getting into running to this degree, running across the United States was kind of like... All right, let me see if that's true. And I did it. So I don't, I like, my thought, like, I've come to this recently is, like, life,

• 2:10:03Speaker 05

  life's gonna throw you shit, no matter what you do. You're gonna be disappointed, there's gonna be things, obstacles to overcome, whether you sit on the couch or you run across the country. So you might as well do what you wanna do. Like, get out there, put yourself out there, and make that your obstacles. And then at the end, you'll be where you wanna be, instead of still sitting on the couch. But yeah, and that's just keep redefining myself and trying new things for the sake of, we only have one life to live, maybe, maybe there's more, but that's all we know about for sure. And I think that comes from losing my father at such a young age. Like, I just wanna embrace every day and make the best of it, because you don't know when it's over. And that, I think that makes me never be able to, like, idly sit by and not do what really speaks to me.

• 2:10:47Speaker 05

  I mean, I have my lows, I do, I've, I've, even since running across the US, it hasn't been a direct path to me sitting here with you right now. I, you know, at one point, kinda didn't know if I could do it. I lost, like, the confidence, and I tried something else. And then it was like, that definitely doesn't work, let me get back into this. So, nothing's linear and perfect, even as I sit here.

• 2:11:07Rich Roll?

  So, on that point specifically, talk a little bit about failure and how you think about failure. I mean, obviously, you can't do anything extraordinary without incurring the risk of failure and failing time and time again, so how do you conceptualize that?

• 2:11:21Speaker 05

  Um, to me, it's just like, it's all in mindset, and we get to choose what we hang on to. And like, I just choose to celebrate my victories and take my defeats and throw them to the wind. Like, what's the point? Like, it, like, it, we can be constructive if we have the right mindset. And to me, failures are going to happen, but they're just part of the learning process, and you're gonna learn something from it, but you get to decide if you're gonna let it beat you, or you're just going to, not like, beat it, just let it go. Like, get it out of the way and keep going.

• 2:11:56Rich Roll?

  I would suspect there's some people here who maybe have a dream or a big idea of something that they want to accomplish in their life. And maybe that's an idea that recurs when they go out and run and they kind of meditate and are in that space and they keep looping back to this thing that they want to do, but they just can't get off the dime. Like they're paralyzed by that first step or they're in that state of mind where they feel like they have to have it all figured out before they can begin. Or they're just irrational about the level of risk mitigation that's required before trying something hard. So maybe we can, we're probably getting near the end of our time here.

• 2:12:35Rich Roll?

  Like I want to leave people with some kind of tactical inspiration around the beginning process of like actualizing a dream.

• 2:12:45Speaker 05

  Well, it all does begin with that first step. And like if you're scared to take the first step, like get past that. Take the first because any big goal is going to require a lot of little steps to get there. Whether that be running across the United States, starting a business, whatever it is, and you got to chop it up into manageable pieces. When I ran across the United States, it was in five mile segments. Every five miles, I'd see my crew, take on water, take on food. And that's what I started focusing on. I couldn't, when I left Huntington Beach, think about New York. Too big, too far. Some days I couldn't think about the end of the day, but I could think about five miles. And so it's just about one foot in front of the other. Those obstacles are going to come. You will get, you'll get past them and just keep moving.

• 2:13:29Speaker 05

  One foot in front of the other. Big goals require a lot of little goals.

• 2:13:33Rich Roll?

  What are you up to next?

• 2:13:37Speaker 05

  I'm going to go home for a minute. I think Shelley's going to be happy to have me. And then I've got a lot of challenges in my head that are kind of swirling. Me and Heller are talking about one. I would like next year to go back over to the UK. There's a thing called the Three Peaks Challenge. Highest point in Wales, Scotland and England. If you traverse them by foot, it's about 500 miles. Hit all the top of the peaks. I'd like to set the, or grab the FKT for that.

• 2:14:04Rich Roll?

  Is that the thing that Tony Riddle did?

• 2:14:06Speaker 05

  He did it as well, yeah. He did it barefoot, which is funny, Tony, like.

• 2:14:11Rich Roll?

  I mean.

• 2:14:12Speaker 05

  Well, you know, we ran into him on the last day of.

• 2:14:14Rich Roll?

  Oh, you did?

• 2:14:14Speaker 05

  William's run. William was coming south. When he did joggle as well, Tony did, he was going south to north. We were coming north to south.

• 2:14:22Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 2:14:22Speaker 05

  And on William's last day, it was Tony's first day. And we met up like on the road, just ran into each other. And of course, all he did was look at our feet.

• 2:14:30Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:14:30Speaker 05

  And I.

• 2:14:31Rich Roll?

  A lot of judgment.

• 2:14:32Speaker 05

  Yeah. Oh, I had Luna. I had Luna sandals on at the moment. He's like, good shoes. I was like, but uh, yeah. So I would like to do that. Um, I signed up for the Cruel Jewel 100. It's in Georgia. It's a 100 mile race with 34,000 feet of gain. Uh, the 50 miler version of that was my first big ultra. So it's going to be kind of like, I grew up in Georgia too. So it's kind of like a going back to, to where it all started. That's, that's kind of the goal of that one.

• 2:14:57Rich Roll?

  Cool. Um, I think we're, are we in a place to open it up to questions?

• 2:15:03Speaker 06

  Rich has an amazing podcast. What are you listening to or what doing with your mind? What are you doing over and over again? Because that's, you know, you're essentially battling that mental, you know, fortitude there because it's a lot to kind of deal with, you know?

• 2:15:19Rich Roll?

  Great question.

• 2:15:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:15:21Rich Roll?

  Dan must have a podcast.

• 2:15:24Speaker 05

  It goes a lot of places, you know, it is listening to meaningful podcasts like Rich's. Um, I can't really do audiobooks. Uh, sometimes it's music. When I'm in a big challenge, what I've found is I fixate on a couple of songs or artists and it just gets on repeat. Uh, this summer it was Tyler Childers, Notice the Grindstone. I think that song, just the name of the song, Notice the Grindstone. Like it was where I was at. Uh, and then a lot of it is me just going through my life, that kind of free association. But you know, a lot of it, this, I remember on the Colorado Trail, it was like, that was the hardest part of the summer physically. And I would have those like, things where it's like, oh, you're, you know, all these enlightened moments of why I was doing it was so, you know, whatever.

• 2:16:07Speaker 05

  And then I'd be like, oh, it's just because you're a bad motherfucker, you know? And like, just stick with that one for a minute. Uh, so yeah, it goes all over the place. I can't do music all the time. It, it gets to where it just overwhelms you. I'd say probably 30% of the time. And the rest is sifting through these free, you know, association thoughts and just uh, coming up with new things I want to do, dreaming about the future, whether that be running or the other parts of life that really matter. It's not all about running.

• 2:16:34Speaker 07

  I just have a question about community. So, somebody who worked in nightlife and restaurant industry, I know the communities work hard, party even harder. And then you decided to take an athletic route and start running races and stuff like that. So I'm sure over the years, your community has changed from partying to healthy living, running, athleticism in general. How was that transition? Did you experience kind of like loneliness in between, where you kind of left the party scene, but you haven't built yet more healthy, different community? Was it lonely at times?

• 2:17:17Speaker 05

  Well, initially, it wasn't too bad because I was still in the restaurants. I just wasn't, I wasn't going out afterwards. You know, so I still had that community around me. Really, I think where more the isolation came was we moved eventually from Austin up to Denver, Colorado. And it was just Shelley and I. And friendships were hard to come by. Like, as you get older, it's harder. So it was a lot of just running alone. But then you, over time, gradually have started to make friends within this world, meaningful friendships, like Hella, like William, Rich. And with those, it, yeah, but there was. I think the easy to that is there's definitely been some of that. There's been some lonely times and isolation. But one of the things I love about these big challenges, it brings people together.

• 2:18:02Speaker 05

  I cannot do these by myself. And I'm really lucky to have an amazing support group around me. And what I love is it gives us this like real like time together. It's very like concentrated and it's beautiful and fun. So I think it's, instead of like always having people around, being at the bar, partying, it's like I have a lot of alone time. But then when I do have people around, it's meaningful and it's just concentrated good time.

• 2:18:27Rich Roll?

  I think, just to piggyback on that piece a little bit, the comfort with the alone time comes with getting comfortable with who you are, right? Like, if you're uncomfortable with who you are and you've been spending a lot of your time with, you know, in recovery parlance, it's called lower companions. Like, you know, you're out partying and then you want to switch up your life, you want to be sober, or you want to invest your time and your energy in healthier pursuits. It does require finding a new community of people to surround yourself with who are vibrating at a higher level and are kind of a little bit further down the path of where you want to go. And along that journey is the inside work of reckoning with whatever was leading you

• 2:19:12Rich Roll?

  down the darker path and clearing that out and getting comfortable with who you are so that when you are alone, you're not feeling less than, but you're actually comfortable with who you are because you like the person that you are becoming. And the great news is, for anybody who lives in this amazing city, there is every possible community of people doing any number of things that are available to you as a person who's trying out new things and trying to figure out where you fit in.

• 2:19:42Speaker 08

  You seem to have been touched deeply by the Navajo region. I'm just wondering if you can tell us a little bit about that area and why it moved you so greatly?

• 2:19:53Speaker 05

  The people. It's just, it's like, as I ran across the US, like, not a lot of people ask what you're doing. And if they do, and you're like, "I'm running across the US," they're like, "Oh, okay." Back on their phone. And you're like, "Did you not hear what I just said?" And in the Navajo Nation, every, almost every car stopped, and they wanted to know what I was doing, and they were proud for me to be, have chosen to come through their land. And that was just, it was touching. They look you in the eye, they want to have conversation, and they're proud of what they have, and what they have isn't a lot. And that really makes you feel really grateful for the things you do have, and also reminds

• 2:20:34Speaker 05

  you to be grateful for what you have, and understand that it's, again, it's all mindset. And they just have a culture that's set up in a way that they stay true to themselves and they're prideful in who they are. And that really resonated with me.

• 2:20:51Speaker 09

  Yeah, hi, I have a question. Robbie, can you talk about how you recover in between your running? Because I know you use hardware and software tools, like both for your endurance and also your mental state in that.

• 2:21:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, so this summer, like, one thing I realized this summer was, again, I think I often on runs, like, start to acknowledge and define things, and then I can explore them further. And I realized that this pursuit I'm on is one of trying to understand how to sustainably move through space and time. That's like the real woo woo way to say it. And it's really just like how to find sustainable motion. And I thought a lot about like Native American cultures and how before horses were around, they had to move by foot and how they must have been so valued in society. And so, looking back, when I ran across the United States, that was all about my food choices. And I thought if I went plant-based,

• 2:21:45Speaker 05

  that was the key to success, and I would be able to run indefinitely. And then, when this summer came around, it was, I'd realized through the TransCon, there was a piece that I had missed. And that piece I had missed was recovery. I had no recovery plan. And due to that, I wasn't sleeping a lot. There were days that were a lot harder than they needed to be. I was having to dig in ways that, had I gotten good rest, wouldn't be there. So recovery became the focal point. And with that, one of my sponsors, we did this summer, it was with 10,000 and then NewCom. And NewCom's a neuroscience technology that, through a three-part system, it brings your brain into alpha and theta waves and lets you get really meaningful rest when you need it. And a lot of this summer was exploring that as a recovery tool, and if it would really help me along the way. And

• 2:22:30Speaker 05

  the truth of it was, is it was one of the pillars of my success. And then, fast forwarding, I went and helped William Gooch in the UK. He also utilizes NewCom. And he used it in between his marathons. So essentially, we talked a lot about his run. And it was 30 days, 48 marathons. But he said, because he would take a nap in between and use this, for him, it was 48 days. Like, he got enough restful sleep in between to take on the next day. So that was kind of the thesis of this summer, recovery. And that was the tool that I used to do it. What I learned from William also was, he's like, really strong, he's got, he's muscular. And that's my next one. I've got to get more full-body, like, a full-body workout going, which is good, because 10,000 has all the gear for that. And maybe

• 2:23:14Speaker 05

  they can follow that journey as I kind of get biceps and stuff. We'll see.

• 2:23:21Speaker 10

  So I just had a question, for as often as you guys obviously train, and I would love to hear from both of you guys on this honestly, for as often as you train, as competitive as you guys are, for as long as you've been going, how is your why like evolved? Right? Because I'm sure the reason of why you started running at this higher level through the years has changed, and I'm just curious how you kept like the fire burning, like how you kept a competitive edge.

• 2:23:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, for me, when we talk about the big stuff, like starting with the transcontinental run, the why there was very clear. It was to promote a plant-based diet. I had a reckoning where I wanted to do something that could help like the environmental fight, and I found that a plant-based diet is a thing that we as individuals can do. And I knew it was good for my performance, and I wanted to prove that and boast about this diet. And that's still like a core part of me, but I did that work, right? Like probably more than most people, I ran across the country to talk about it. So it's like there. And so the why now, what I realized on that run was I was also able to inspire people in other ways. It wasn't all about the plant-based diet. And knowing that by my efforts could encourage someone else to pick up better habits.

• 2:24:29Speaker 05

  Like giving somebody the gift of running, there's no better gift anyone's ever given me. And so that keeps me going.

• 2:24:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, my evolution is somewhat similar. I mean, early on, when I was heavily invested in training and racing and ultra races, a lot of it was initially selfish. I wanted to prove something to myself about my own capabilities. I felt like I had things I needed to say for myself and to prove to myself about my athletic potential. And then that evolved into leveraging it as similar to Robbie, like a platform to talk about plant-based nutrition and also kind of human potential as we start to age, because I was doing it in my 40s. And that became a narrative that created kind of the foundation of what I do today. But, you know, I turn 55 next week,

• 2:25:20Rich Roll?

  so I'm in a very different stage of life than Robbie. And...

• 2:25:27Rich Roll?

  It's a less, it's really not about competition for me anymore. My life is very different. I have a lot of responsibilities and I'm privileged to be in a situation where I have this platform where I have the opportunity to communicate with people like Robbie and share those conversations. And that is really kind of like my focus and my, you know, in addition to being my vocation, like my passion. So the idea that I'm gonna go and train 25, 30, 35 hours a week to go do some challenge, as appealing as that is for me to like leave my life and live in a cabin and train, like that's just not my life anymore, nor do I want it to be my life anymore.

• 2:26:12Rich Roll?

  Like I wake up every day and think, what is the thing that I can do today that will move the needle in the most significant way for the most number of people? And often that's having podcast conversations, or writing, or putting out a book, or you know, getting on a plane to go give a speech somewhere. And I think athletic pursuits have their place in that, but I see myself now more as an ambassador and somebody who can be a catalyst for another individual's version of what I've already experienced. Like I don't feel like, yeah, I could go train a lot and like try to do something crazy, but I've already pretty much proved to myself everything that I needed to know about what I can and maybe can't do as an athlete.

• 2:26:55Rich Roll?

  And so my focus is really more outward facing and service oriented in terms of like trying to activate other individuals, because maybe not everyone's gonna run across the country or do any other things that I've done, but I think everybody inside of themselves has some version of that. And maybe that's becoming a stand-up comedian, or a concert pianist, or you know, it doesn't even have to be athletic, but the idea of trying to... Get people in a headspace to more deeply connect with expressing their inner potential is kind of what I'm all about. And that expression can come through the form of nutrition, movement, you know, business, any number of, you know, creativity, any number of factors.

• 2:27:39Rich Roll?

  But movement is really the primary kind of force behind all of it. And that kind of ties it back to this idea of FAR, Free Association Run, which is really like using our bodies to try to connect with our innate creativity so that we can be the most expressed and the most expressed in our, in our, in our human potential.

• 2:28:00Speaker 11

  Hey, guys. Thanks both for being here. It's been great to hear you. Just, just curious, I've heard a lot about the first step in running. I think I have that piece down. But the other thing you've talked a lot about is this idea of a plant-based diet. And, and I'm just curious, like, my mind's going a million miles a minute here, but what you would consider kind of the first step in that journey and what that really looked like for you? And Rich, if you have anything on that, too? I'm just curious.

• 2:28:26Speaker 05

  I heard it said really well recently by Brendan Brazier. Brazier, yeah. He, one of the like, old school, like, plant-based athletes. And I really liked what he said in that, look at it as a thing of not what you're taking away from your plate, but what you're adding. And just like, starting to put healthier things on your plate, small steps, and eventually your plate's just full of greens and healthy stuff. And also, for me, it's an idea of getting there over time is probably the best approach. Because if I sit up here and preach absolutisms and that everybody should switch to a plant-based diet tomorrow, you'll go home, you'll try, a week later, you're gonna fail, and then you're never gonna look at it again, because nobody wants to fail. So, the acknowledgement, first and foremost, is that it can be, it will be better for

• 2:29:11Speaker 05

  you, and it will definitely be better for this planet. And then start making gradual steps in that direction.

• 2:29:18Rich Roll?

  I don't know how much more I can add to that. When you asked the question, I made a little mental list of the things I wanted to cover, and then he just said them all. I think the other piece to that is, is holding it onto it lightly. Like, make it a fun adventure. It doesn't have to be like this martyrdom, burdensome thing where you're like, "Oh, it's gonna be really hard, and I'm gonna have to think about this." Like, just have fun with it. And some days, you'll stray, or whatever, and that's okay. It's really about trying to create a foundation of habits that you can sustain long-term, and treat it like, you know, a journey, as opposed to a rigid, binary thing. Like, I'm plant-based, and then the minute, like Robbie said, like, you go off the rails, and you think, "Well, this is too hard," and you just abandon it altogether.

• 2:30:02Rich Roll?

  And I really do think it is about crowding out the unhealthy foods, and just focusing on, on being excited about trying new things, and building more and more healthy foods onto your plate. And then paying attention to how you feel. I think making that emotional connection to it, like, "Well, I actually do feel better today." And like, noting that, like, "Well, what did I eat?" And paying attention to that, I think, really roots you in sticking with it, long-term. And then also figuring out your why for it. And your why can be like, "I feel fat," or "I feel lousy, and I just don't wanna feel this." It doesn't have to be like, "I'm gonna save the world," or "I'm saving the animals," or anything. If that is, if that's your thing, that's great. It can be a very simple thing, but I think, understanding why it is that you would wanna

• 2:30:47Rich Roll?

  try to, you know, engage in healthier eating habits, I think is important in kind of figuring out how to stay the path.

• 2:30:57Speaker 12

  Hi, I hope this question makes sense. I think a lot about like, how I spend my time, and how my friends spend their time, and there's a lot of like, waste in that, like, lots of TV we don't like that much, and friends we're never gonna really be that close with. And I feel like in both of your more like, focused, goal-based lifestyle, you likely have found ways to kind of cut to what's important in your leisure time outside of your goals? And I'm interested in whether that was like, a deliberate process, where you thought about your days, and what should stay and what should go, or it just happened over time?

• 2:31:28Rich Roll?

  I think for me, it was just over time. But I like, just...

• 2:31:31Speaker 05

  Focusing more on the things that I do care about, it just is gonna take a lot of time. Like, the training to run ultras is very time-consuming. And so, yeah, it eventually just whittles out that stuff. I mean, it's... It was never a conscious thing for me. Like, I don't have any negative associations with the people I used to hang out with. They're just not really there anymore. Like, I don't dislike those folks. I'm just like, these are the things I do love, and that time in between is only gonna be given to the people that really I care for and care about me.

• 2:32:01Speaker 13

  Hey, Robbie, you talked about how running helped you discover what it is to be a man. I guess, outside, it's easy. You tackled these physical feats. Could you talk about your findings in a mental aspect? Like, what it did for your mental health and that part of being a man?

• 2:32:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think through, like, running and also through my journey into being plant-based, like, compassion became a big part of that. Looking at, like, what are these kind of toxic things that society tells us are what to be a man? And kind of like, really looking at that and being like, does that really make sense? And one of those being compassion, like, trying to be a compassionate person. This summer, as I was summiting all of the 14ers, like, it required being very calculated and very intentional. And those things are... I learned from that, to try to be more of that in life, like, to... And again, try to be more intentional, not spout off, not, you know, just be... Have more calmness to my being. Those are kind of big ones for me right now. And...

• 2:33:09Speaker 05

  But it's always an evolution, and I'm not perfect. And then one also, being... Looking at my running and seeing how hard I've strived and focused on that, and realizing that there's other... There's so many aspects in life, and we can't be great at everything. But I do value running, so I'm gonna try to be great at that. But what are the other ones that I could put more time and energy into perfecting? And like, that's just being a good partner? Or building a foundation for a future with a family? And things like that. So just, yeah, using what I've learned through running and applying it to other aspects of my life.

• 2:33:42Speaker 14

  Hey guys, I have a question for both of you. So when you're like training for something specific, there are days where you can like get caught up in like a high and like you have a purpose because it's like bigger than you. So when you're like finished with the challenge, how do you sort of deal with like the fallout? Because like you don't really have that thing to lean on anymore. And so how do you, like if you're having like a tougher time during the day, how can you like have something to lean on?

• 2:34:08Speaker 05

  For me, like that was a, that was a really big surprise after finishing the TransCon. I think I assumed when I got done, like it was going to change my life, like life was just going to be easy, rainbows, birds chirping, all that good stuff. And reality was, it wasn't that, you know? There was an immense amount of depression that came after. And I think the learning, what I learned from that is just the knowledge that it's coming. And so just being able to face it and be ready for it and learning practices of things that can keep me balanced. Going back to a spoke of NUCOM, this technology I was using, that's a big one. The way it works, it essentially clicks you into deep meditation. I don't know how to meditate, but this allows me to have a meditation practice.

• 2:34:53Speaker 05

  And that's helped me a lot since the Colorado Crush is just to find peace and serenity at some point in the day that can carry me through until the next day. And then maybe looking towards another goal. It doesn't mean it needs to be the next week, but just start thinking about what it is because it's good to always have something to look forward to, but don't hide from things by doing that. But get back in the game, even if it just means training for that year until that next thing comes around.

• 2:35:21Rich Roll?

  For me, that's about sort of disassociating my identity from the results of my actions. So how I do in a race or how many copies of a book that I write, you know, how many, how well does that do, all that kind of stuff, like whatever goal it is that you set for yourself, if you become too tightly wound up about the result of, of that journey towards that goal, I think that's what leads to peaks and valleys. Terms of your emotional state. So I try to just focus on what is the next thing in front of me to do. So I'm not racing like Robbie or doing crazy ultra challenges like I was, you know, 10 plus years ago.

• 2:36:06Rich Roll?

  But I'm putting out creative things and it's easy for me to get very caught up in like how that is gonna be received by the public and then calibrate how I feel about myself based upon that. And the less that I do that and the more I disassociate and just focus on the work, the journey, the process, the fact that I just love like going out and running or, you know, creating something that I can share with the world and focus on that piece of it and let go of the results aspect of it, then that seems to ameliorate those valleys that I would experience ordinarily emotionally.

• 2:36:45Speaker 15

  Hi. So sorry if you've touched on this already, I came in a bit late, but it's a two-part question on sleep. First of all, I want to know if you're doing anything in the realms of sleep and sleep science, like we're having, we now have access to understanding what thermal control does for sleep, what sunlight does for our circadian rhythm. Are you doing anything to optimize your sleep? And also, part two of the question is, are you wearing any, are you tracking any data using wearables such as whoop, o ring? Are you looking at the data, are you optimizing from that data? It's a sleep question.

• 2:37:21Rich Roll?

  Could talk for hours on this, but go ahead.

• 2:37:23Speaker 05

  I think we both have one side of this.

• 2:37:26Speaker 05

  The sleep side, yeah, that, again, that's kind of the thesis of this summer's run was recovery. And what is the basis of recovery? We can talk about Normatec boots, we can talk about all this stuff, but it really comes down to rest. And I do, I use Newcom. It's this neuroscience technology, been around for 15 years. It started off as a medical device, slowly graduated its way into where you can get it for 50 bucks a month. And it brings your brain into alpha theta waves and their restorative sleep happens or like restoration happens. And I found this summer that it was the key to my success. The difference between me on the TransCon and me this summer, night and day. Like on the TransCon, somebody had to bring my coffee every morning, they had to like scrape me off the bed and out the door.

• 2:38:11Speaker 05

  And then this summer, I was making my own coffee and waking my crew up, telling them I was gonna leave. And I think like, That was a testament to this, this practice that I've gotten through this tech. And then also a little bit of it being that my body and mind have adapted to these big, big efforts. But it was something that I, I just missed so much on the TransCon and had no thought about recovery. I thought if I went hard, I would fall asleep at night and it wouldn't be a problem. But that reality is, is you're so keyed up, sleep came, it was just so hard. And this summer, being able to utilize that made it just that much, it was profoundly different. So that, yeah, that works for me, Newcom.

• 2:38:51Rich Roll?

  I'm obsessed with sleep. I, I am convinced that sleep is the greatest mover in terms of performance enhancement. You could, like Robbie said, you could talk about all these modalities, but ultimately, the one thing that will help your body repair itself the most effectively is like getting an incredible night of sleep. And we all know that experience of waking up after one of those amazing elusive nights where you just feel bulletproof and thinking, if I could replicate this experience every day, like my life would just expand exponentially. I've experienced, I know that like as I, as you get older, sleep becomes more and more elusive. And I've gotten more and more conscious about the practices that I undertake

• 2:39:36Rich Roll?

  to try to, you know, take my best shot at ensuring the best night of sleep. Robbie's been like bugging me about Newcom forever. I mean, I can't tell you how many emails, he's like, you gotta get on the Newcom. So I just got the kit, I haven't tried it yet, but anyway, we'll, we'll shelve that for now. But he's quite the evangelist of that. But I have gone to some pretty extreme lengths to get a good night of sleep. I live in Southern California, so I live in this climate. But I've been sleeping outdoors in a tent for like two and a half years at this point, like every night. Like not occasionally, like that is my bedroom. Like I sleep outside. I have a weighted gravity blanket. I've got the sleep mask. I do the periodized eating.

• 2:40:19Rich Roll?

  Like I try all of this kind of stuff to put myself in the best position to, to, you know, have the best night of sleep. And I think it's super important and. It's kind of nutty, some of the stuff that I've done. And maybe if I start doing Newcom, I can move back into the house. I don't know what's gonna happen. But anyway, whatever it is, I'll try it because I just want to feel great every day. And I know what it feels like when you have a great night of sleep as an athlete, but also just in terms of how my brain works and how I feel and how I interact with other people when I'm well rested. Like, it's night and day.

• 2:40:54Speaker 08

  Yeah, I have a question here. I was just wondering, talking about timing and especially like you like to sleep and you do an extreme amount of workout. I can imagine that there's a lot of people in the room who have busy lifestyles in terms of careers or having their own business. Where do you find the time to do it? And what's the transition of, you know, in the restaurant scene, how would you go from having a really successful career to listening to inspiring stories? How would you ever get there? Because it seems like you have to really step out of it if you want to go to the extreme levels, unless you want to keep it to just a hobby.

• 2:41:27Speaker 05

  I think for me, it's just like, what do you value? You know, and like finding out what really does matter to you and what makes you feel your best and having an honest conversation with yourself about that and then pursuing it from there. And as far as budgeting the time for it, I mean, I want to feel my best and have the most quality experience possible. And if that's what it requires is eight hours of sleep, then that's what I'm gonna do. And I don't want to beat a dead horse, but like the Newcom really helps me to do that. And it minimizes it. It minimizes the time you gotta put into that. And like, yeah, it, I know, it just keeps, if we're talking about sleep and it just keeps coming up.

• 2:42:05Rich Roll?

  To add to that a little bit, I mean, I think there is this weird idea where if you want to do something that interests you, that it has to be super extreme or you gotta quit your job or, you know, kind of do this whole life overhaul. I don't think that's how it works. It's not how it worked for me. That's what happened for Robbie. For me, it's just about paying attention to your curiosity. Like, what gets you excited? What is that thing that lights you up? Being aware of what that is. And then trying to consciously give that energy within the construct of your busy life. And maybe that's 10 minutes a day to indulge yourself by watching a video about something you always wanted to learn about, or whatever it is. It doesn't mean that you have to throw your whole life out the window

• 2:42:50Rich Roll?

  and pursue some harebrained dream. But I think it's about increasingly carving out more and more time to devote energy to the things that make you feel alive. Because life is short, man. And if you're not doing that, then you're missing out on a lot of beauty in life. So being open to where it leads you is kind of how I've always done everything. Without judging yourself against some idea of what it should or should not look like.

• 2:43:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's an evolution, right? Like, just start doing those things that matter. And more time comes for it if it's what you value.

• 2:43:30Speaker 16

  Hi. You both talked about your whys or your purpose. I'm curious if you have any words of wisdom or ways that you've come to understand the journey of or process of defining or gaining clarity, clarity around your why.

• 2:43:52Speaker 05

  Mine comes through the running, through this free association. I mean, it's just like, that's where I go to evolve these ideas. And again, it goes back to how I have to define something. I have to find it in my mind as being a part of who I am. And then, once I find it, I can work on it. And I can, once the identifying it happens, then that can become a pillar of my why. But first, I have to discover it. And I discover it through running.

• 2:44:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, your question starts with this idea of like trying to identify what your purpose is, right? And that being a precursor to what your why is. I mean, I think it's easy to get caught up in all this jargon, and I've said this before, but I think a lot of these words like "you live a life of passion" and "find your purpose" and all of that, I think it makes, it's very constrictive, and I think it makes people feel guilty or ashamed if they don't know what their purpose is, or they're not living this idealized life of passion. And I don't really think about life in those terms or in that context.

• 2:45:04Rich Roll?

  For me, it's just always been about trying to pay attention to myself, trying to honor and recognize when I have an impulse to do something, trying to evaluate whether that's something true and that's in alignment with a higher version of myself, and then giving myself permission to pursue that. And that, for me, began with, "I'm gonna go running." It didn't have to mean some big thing or be a purpose-driven thing with a why behind it. It really began with a whisper, and having the kind of self-respect to say, "I'm gonna

• 2:45:43Rich Roll?

  honor that whisper because I'm worth it, and my higher self is trying to communicate with me in some way, and I don't know what that means, but I'm going to follow that. I'm gonna pull on that thread, and I'm gonna see where it leads me." And all the other stuff gets figured out along the way. So for me, it's about trying to just be in alignment with that higher voice, and the more that I can live in that space, then a lot of these other questions kind of get answered for me.

• 2:46:12Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 2:46:12Speaker 17

  That's a lot of pressure. I don't know if mine does profound. So my question is 56 miles alone on the Colorado Trail versus thousands of people in Central Park for most of the time you're running. How is, what are like the easier and harder parts of both of those efforts? Because even I've found like on the trail, you're alone. That's a much different thing than someone's trying to like push your pace 10 steps behind you for like an hour and a half.

• 2:46:41Speaker 05

  Well, Central Park Loop Challenge came at a great time. It was the first day of spring, the year coming out of COVID. Bring on all the people you can. Like I had not seen people in quite a while. So that was just really nice. It was nice to have that. There's so much good people watching to be done in the city and just like in the same way, it's like trying to spot a wild animal in the, in the mountains. But both of them worked for me. I think the duality of it's really nice to have a little bit of both. That day on the Colorado Trail, luckily like I performed really well. Like I felt good for the majority of it. They both, they're both just, you're out in the wild either way you look at it, you know, like between the two.

• 2:47:25Speaker 05

  So they're, they're very starkly different, but there's also a lot of similarities, I guess. Yeah.

• 2:47:33Speaker 04

  I heard you guys talking about just what loosely sounded like reaching for the best version of yourself, self-actualization, PCP will. I would love to hear either of you guys relay that to potentially in the past being in recovery and kind of like what that means to tie those two together, kind of not seeing that best version of yourself and striving towards it, trip away some of the bad and kind of seek out some of the new.

• 2:47:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. You know, in recovery parlance, they say the road gets narrower, right? Which means things that you used to do, that you used to feel okay about, that you used to be able to get away with as you, as you kind of trod this path towards greater self-actualization, become less and less resonant with that higher self and have to be discarded, right? And it's kind of a bummer. It's like, really? I gave up this and this and this, and now I gotta give up this too? But you know in your heart of hearts that it's gotta go, right? And so it's like this, this constant shedding practice of letting go of old layers, stepping into new versions of yourself, experimenting, figuring out what resonates with you,

• 2:48:42Rich Roll?

  and trying to walk this path of, of deep integrity with self, which is a process of self-inquiry that only you are in a position to evaluate for yourself. So for me, yeah, I got sober in 1998. I've been around the block with 12-step and recovery and learned a few things along the way. And I could tell you that the journey is not linear. It's up and down and all over the place. And some days are better than others because we're human beings and we're messy. And we're not built like robots to function in a linear fashion. And, you know, I've had for every step forward, two steps back,

• 2:49:25Rich Roll?

  trying to figure out, you know, who I wanted to be in the world and, and what that would look like and what, and what that means. And it's been a journey of letting go of, you know, the lower companions and behaviors that didn't serve me, that involved not just substances, but all manner of, of character defects that I battle with and, you know, behaviors that I used to indulge without, you know, thinking twice about, that become more and more intolerable the closer that you kind of get to becoming, you know, that, that version of yourself that you aspire to be. But I can tell you, you know, when I began the journey,

• 2:50:06Rich Roll?

  I thought, my life is gonna be boring and I was gonna live this, you know, life of deprivation and martyrdom like a, like a sort of prison sentence. And my experience has been, you know, quite the contrary. I mean, the idea that I'm sitting up here doing this right now is like completely surreal to me because I never lose touch with how I felt and the person that I was back in 1998.

• 2:50:32Rich Roll?

  I was broken and alone and really felt like I had no future. And that hopelessness is something that I need to revisit in order to kind of connect with the gratitude for what I get to do today. But my point being that when you blaze this path and you commit yourself to this ethos, which is very much a part of 10,000, better than yesterday, that your life will expand in lockstep with the level of commitment that you apply to that. And it puts you in a position for amazing things to happen, you know, for that magic to happen, for you to be in the right place at the right time, for that thing that you always wanted to occur to actually occur.

• 2:51:18Rich Roll?

  Come on, Robbie.

• 2:51:20Speaker 05

  I really, that was...

• 2:51:23Speaker 05

  Rich is the wise one here, and that was amazing.

• 2:51:27Rich Roll?

  I think we're out of time. I just want to thank everybody for coming out today. It's Saturday morning, you guys would be doing anything. And the fact that you showed up, you went running, you joined us for this conversation, I just, my heart is full. I'm so grateful to be able to be here with all of you today. Thank you to everybody at 10,000 for not only supporting myself and Robbie, but putting together this amazing event for us to indulge in, in community on this level. So I'm just happy to be here and appreciate all you guys. So thank you.

• 2:52:01Speaker 05

  Thank you, Robbie, man.