20VC: Pejman Nozad: Tech's Most Unlikely VC: From Yoghurt Shop To Investing In Startups Now Worth $20Bn+

Pejman Nozad is the Founding Managing Partner @ Pear.vc, one of the leading seed stage funds in the valley. However, Pejman did not enter the tech industry like most venture capitalists. Having immigrated from Iran, he lived in an attic above a yogurt shop and took a job at a rug store in the Valley. But he immersed himself in what was happening in technology. Slowly, with a few small investments, he developed a reputation for identifying talent and helping take promising ideas to the next level. From next to nothing, he built a $20B portfolio, investing in over 100 startups and seeding several multi-billion dollar companies such as Dropbox, Lending Club, SoundHound and Gusto. In Today’s Episode You Will Learn: 1.) How Pejman made his way from football in Iran to rug dealer in Palo Alto to leading seed stage VC? 2.) Mike Moritz has previously said that 'a call from Pejman is a call he will always take'. What led Mike to say this? What makes Pejman the brilliant networker and community builder that he is? 3.) How does Pejman assess early stage founders and teams? From seeing an early Andy Rubin, what did Pejman take from that as to what makes the best founders? 4.) Pejman invested $400K in Andy Rubin's Danger which exited 8 years later for $500m yet Pejman only 2x his money. What did he take from this? What have been the other major learning inflection points for Pejman in the journey? 5.) From working alongside some of the best investors of our generation, what does Pejman perceive to be the commonalities of the best investors? How do they operate? How do they evaluate early stage opportunities? Items Mentioned In Today’s Show: Pejman’s Fave Book: Power of Now Pejman's Most Recent Investment: Gfycat As always you can follow Harry, The Twenty Minute VC and Pejman on Twitter here! Likewise, you can follow Harry on Snapchat here for mojito madness and all things 20VC. Intercom is the first to bring messaging products for marketing and customer support together on one integrated platform. With Intercom, businesses can chat directly with prospective customers on their website, engage current users with targeted messages based on their behavior, and provide personal support at scale with an integrated help desk and knowledge base. This is perfect for Businesses that want to help people visiting their website become customers. Marketing and growth teams that want to onboard and retain users by sending the right messages at the right time and Support teams that want to move beyond email to provide personalized, scalable support so simply head over to Intercom.com/20MVC Cooley are the global law firm built around startups and venture capital. Since forming the first venture fund in Silicon Valley, Cooley has formed more venture capital funds than any other law firm in the world, with 50+ years working with VCs. They help VCs form and manage funds, make investments and handle the myriad issues that arise through a fund’s lifetime. So to learn more about the #1 most active law firm representing VC-backed companies going public. Head over to cooley.com and also at cooleygo.com.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Harry Stebbings?

  Hello and welcome back to the 20 Minute VC with me, your host Harry Stebbings, found most often on Snapchat at H Stebbings with two Bs, or writing some hopefully more academic posts on the blog mojito vc.com. I'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback on that. However, to the show today, and I really want to start today by saying today's guest is one of the kindest, most genuine, and without a doubt the most inspiring guest I have had on the show so far. I feel very honoured to welcome Pejman Nozad to the show today. Now, Pejman is the founding managing partner at Pear VC, one of the leading seed stage funds in the valley. However, Pejman did not enter the tech industry like most VCs. Having immigrated from Iran, he lived in an attic above a yogurt shop and took a job at a rug store in the valley. But he immersed himself in what was happening in technology and slowly with a few small investments,

• 0:44Harry Stebbings?

  he developed a reputation for identifying talent and helping take promising ideas to the next level. From next to nothing, he's built a portfolio worth over $20 billion, investing in over 200 startups and seeding several multi-billion dollar companies, such as Dropbox, Lending Club, Soundhound and Gusto. Now, I never get political, but I do think Pejman's current pinned tweet says a lot. It reads, "I was once an undocumented immigrant, now I'm a VC, I've backed over 200 companies, worth over $20 billion, and I've created thousands of jobs." I think that really says it all and we're very lucky to have incredible and inspiring people like Pejman in the industry today. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to Josh Reeves at Gusto for the intro to Pejman today, without which the show would not have been possible.

• 1:26Harry Stebbings?

  However, before we dive into the show today, you must check out Intercom. Intercom is the first to bring messaging products for marketing and customer support together on one integrated platform. With Intercom, businesses can chat directly with prospective customers on their website. They can engage current users with targeted messages based on their behaviour and provide personal support at scale with an integrated helpdesk and knowledge base. All products are powered by live customer data, helping businesses avoid the stiff spammy status quo and have real conversations to build real connections throughout the entire customer lifecycle. This is perfect for businesses that want to help people visiting their website become customers and marketing and growth teams that want to onboard and retain users by sending the right messages at the right time.

• 2:10Harry Stebbings?

  So simply head over to intercom.com forward slash twenty M V C. And speaking of serving your clients better there with Intercom, I've always been a big history man. And so I want to talk about Cooley, the global law firm built around startups and venture capital. Since forming the first venture fund in Silicon Valley, Cooley has formed more venture capital funds than any other law firm in the world with fifty plus years working with VCs. They help VCs form and manage funds, make investments and handle the myriad of issues that arise through a fund's life cycle. So to learn more about the number one most active law firm representing VC backed companies going public, simply head over to Cooley.com and also check them out on Cooleygo.com.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  You have now arrived at your destination.

• 2:57Harry Stebbings?

  Pejman, so fantastic to have you on the show today. Huge thanks to Josh Augusto for the intro, but thank you so much for joining me today.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Oh, Harry, thank you so much for inviting me. I was just so excited to be on the show. And as you know, I'm such a big fan of Josh Augusto. It's my biggest single, biggest angel investment ever. And when I met Josh, it took me like fifteen minutes to commit and I didn't see even one page of the product he's building. So I think, I believe some founders are from Mars and he's one of them.

• 3:26Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. No, I was completely convinced to in twenty minutes, funnily enough for me. But sadly, I didn't write a cheque after it. But, but I do want to start today because you have, I think, the best story I've ever come into in VC ever. So talk to me about how you arrived in Silicon Valley with, with seven hundred dollars and a few words of English. And now you're, you're one of the ultimate power brokers and connectors of the valley and now a leading investor. So how did that come about for you?

• 3:52Speaker 02

  You know, maybe I should give you a little bit of background that, you know, I grew up in Iran and, you know, I was a a big soccer fan. I played professional soccer in Iran and, you know, my teenagers went through a really difficult time of revolution and war. So I think when I look back to those days, it just made me who I am today. When you, when you face so much challenges over there, then when you immigrate to a country like America, you really realize the opportunities you have, you know, fast forward, I went to Germany, my parents lived in Germany and continued my education and played professional soccer. Actually, Waldhof Mannheim, which was in Bundesliga at that time, offered me to play. But my brother, who left Iran before me and he had this American dream and was denied visa.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  Every month, just pushed me to go to the US Embassy. I didn't speak the language. But somehow, the counselor said, and I exactly remember, the woman said, I don't know why, but I want you to see my country. So I got a visa when I was twenty-two years old and took a chance to came here, to to come to to the United States. Didn't know what to do, as you mentioned, I didn't have money much and I didn't speak the language. And actually, the seven hundred dollars was just gone the first few weeks because I was in love with the girl in Iran and I thought I'm gonna lose her. So I started to to call her every day from payphone and and imagine in nineties, early nineties, there was no internet. There was no Skype like now, me and you, so it was like a few dollars per minute. So I lost all of my money in the first few weeks. So imagine you come to America, no money, don't speak the language.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  And so I I had to find a job and I called the former Iranians' national team coach, who I knew lived in San Jose. And said, yeah, I have a job for you, come and um see me. And I thought he knew I was a journalist in Iran. So before I came to US, I was a very famous sports journalist. And I posted Iran's most popular radio talk show and I showed up, it was a car wash. So my first job in the US was working in a car wash and I tell you, I was the best car washer the world has ever seen. I I washed cars, but nobody else has ever done it. You know, then I my English improved, I took English class at night, I worked in in a yogurt shop. And I managed to slip above the attic because I I wanted to go marry the girl I loved and I didn't want to ask my father to pay for it. So I had to save every penny and this yogurt shop had an attic, real attic.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  It was just the storage over there and the owner was a very, very nice Iranian man who who left Iran a long time ago. And he said, Pejman, you're crazy, but that's fine. If you wanna live there, you can live there. So I remember it was no air, a couple of times I went out and one time police caught me because it was with my underwear at three AM in the morning. And the the guy thought I'm I'm crazy.

• 6:24Harry Stebbings?

  It happens to all of us, don't we, Pejman?

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Yes, and then one of those days that I was a studies, I had this small TV. And every Sunday was this Persian program. And I saw this gallery down carpet gallery rug gallery downtown Palo Alto. Medallion rug gallery is just hiring salesperson. So being Iranian, every Iranian, they know, they know something about carpet, which they don't. And so I called and you know, the interview media golden gentleman who actually government nationalizes his asset. Came to US and started from scratch and built very successful businesses. Interview on the phone and just he said, you're not qualified because you're, you haven't sold anything furniture, cars and so on. And before he hung up, I said, how can you deny someone you haven't met? And it was, it was a long pause and he said, come and see me next day.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  So I went over there and I was hired as a, as a rug salesman in this beautiful rug gallery in downtown Palo Alto. And after a few years, I, I managed to, to be a really good salesperson. And you know, I, I grew the business with the owner. We hired people and the operation went from four or five people to like 25 people. But you know what, when you sell carpets, especially high end Persian carpets, you don't sell carpets at your store. You go to people's home. So I started to go to big homes here in Silicon Valley and, and I built relationship with the people who are buying carpets. But I realized majority, almost all of them are either venture capitalists, CEOs, founders, you know, lawyers. And I just figure out I'm of, of this amazing melting pot called Silicon Valley.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  And this is the community is trying to change the world to be a better place. And it's, it's creating so much jobs, so much wealth and so on. And I said, so I want to be one of them. So I started to really educate myself, what's going on, who are the players, who's a venture capitalist? How does a startup work? And, and imagine late nineties, it wasn't any tech crunch or Y Combinator, Angel List or people like you. It was, it wasn't like that, so limited resources. And then one day I walked to the office of the owner, who we built a great relationship, me and him, after seven years working for him. And I said, you know, I think we should invest in high tech companies and these are my plans. I built a great network from people who can really review business plan, helping us. And I can start to create deal flow.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  So that was just the beginning. I we started, he asked me to put, I I exactly remember, we started with two million dollars, majority of his money. And he said, you put ten percent of it. And this is in late nineties. I I didn't have any money. I said, I don't have it. He said, okay, every month we subtract from your commission. So he made me work harder to sell carpets in order to participate in the fund. So he was a very, very smart man. I learned so much from him. Amir Amidhi is name. Unfortunately, he passed away in in the year two thousand. So so I we started to make like horrible mistake, but I was very lucky. One day I was selling a carpet to a gentleman. And he negotiated for long. And this was, imagine nine months after starting to invest in startups.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  You know, he was Andy Rubin, who started Danger after that Android. And I I really loved how he was explaining, describing the product and the future. So we managed to be his first investor in Danger. And, you know, Andy's office was on University Avenue. So it just, I was very, very lucky to meet Andy that early. So normally in any career, it takes ten to twenty years to meet somebody like him. But he gave me a different perspective of the quality of the founders, him and and Matt Hershitz and Joel Britt was the three co-founders.

• 9:51Harry Stebbings?

  What perspective did he give you when you saw him?

• 9:53Speaker 02

  He know was was few things, I think, was the way he was seeing the future, the way he was interacting with his team. I was at his office a few times, his confidence, he was basically captain of the ship. And the way he was just solving the problem, I think, was I've never seen it before. And I still is. I think Andy Rubin sees future before most of us. And that's why he created Android and now he's the playground and the other things. So it was kind of a turning point for me, but very early on in my career. I started to build back really close relationship with venture capitalists. I remember at night, sometimes I was inviting hundred, hundred fifty entrepreneurs to the rug gallery. I was wanting the entire, I was inviting the entire senior partners of Sequoia Capital.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  And this never happened at that time. It wasn't like today. Today, every night, there is something happens around the world, especially in Bay Area and Silicon Valley. But at that time was really rare. So Silicon Valley and venture capitalists got to know. Have a very strong deal flow. I started to help entrepreneurs. They notice I'm for real. I'm there to help them. And I matched them with the right people and really helping, you know, sharing a lot of experiences. So fast forward, I was very lucky to me then, you know, through NR Ash, I became one of the first investors in Dropbox and fast forward today, which I raised two funds with my partner that we can talk more about it.

• 11:13Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. I mean, my word, what an incredible story. But you said there about inviting the Sequoia partners to to the rug store and for kind of meetups, as they're called today. And Mike Moritz has said before that your calls are called, he will always take. I have to ask them, what do you think made you so, and I'm gonna make you blush here, made you so brilliant at networking with those elite of tech society? Was it the fact that meetups were rarer? What was it about you that that made the ecosystem come together?

• 11:43Speaker 02

  First of all, thanks, thanks, Mike Moritz. I have so much respect. I learned so much throughout the years interacting with him and and reading his his writings. And these days, reading the book he he wrote with Sir Alex Ferguson, Leading, which I think is just phenomenal book, and I recommend everyone managing people to read it. You know, I think, you know, I developed a kind of a pattern recognition to spot entrepreneurs early on, and this is by just meeting a lot of people. I think many venture capitalists recognize that. I think I reach out to them at the right time, with the right context. I just making sure to respect their time, and I think I'm I'm showing that in action. But you have to you have to realize one thing.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  University Avenue, where the Medallion Road Gallery was, was and perhaps is the most important street in the tech world. So just, you know, Medallion Road Gallery is like three twenty University Avenue, one sixty five University is where Google PayPal started. On adjacent street, Yahoo started. If you walk three miles to Stanford is where Sun Microsystems, Cisco, and most recently Instagram and Snapchat started. So I had two choices. Just witness what's going on around me and pass by and be the rug salesperson, or really capture the opportunity. Opportunity I had and become one of the players, just participate in this community,

• 13:05Speaker 02

  create a network, helping people, be kind to other ones, work really hard, learn constantly. And I I chose the second pack. I I didn't think that not having a tech background should stop me participate in this just amazing world. And you know, to me was just obvious, I I can be one of the people who can and play a role and be part of this just amazing community.

• 13:31Harry Stebbings?

  And you said about the pattern recognition there with regards to the founders that you built up over time. Uh you've said before that you never invest without meeting the co-founder. How do you assess then the kind of early stage founding relationships of the incredible founders that you've backed? In the likes of the Dropbox and and the danger team, uh and how do you kind of strength test these relationships?

• 13:52Speaker 02

  Uh you know, there are a few things is important for me and for us today as a firm. So we look at founders who have history together. So basically, people who went to college together, who played basketball in high school together, they're right climb, rock climb every weekend. Things that they have in common, so really good relationship there. It's very important for us. We like the teams who are very close to the problem they're solving. You know, often people who are passionate about solving a problem and are really close to it, that have history with that problem, end up building product that people love. I think we are the teams that founding teams that they believe

• 14:31Speaker 02

  company is above them. So I think humbleness for us is really important. We love the team who can attract talent. We love founders who are captain of their ships. They they leave the ship at last. I think we like founders who are paranoid in a healthy way. I mean, those people who have a vision, they know exactly where they're going, but they questions themselves and the team and this decisions every day. Getting to know the founders is just very important. I don't think in half an hour or an hour meeting with a tech or presentation, you can really, I mean, you get a lot from the founders. I don't get me wrong. I think most of the companies we pass, we get to know the founders, how they. Their relationship with each other in just interaction we have in a in a in a meeting.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  But I I typically spend time outside office, the ones we are really excited. You know, we just invested in one company that had like three hours dinner with the founder over Persian food. I got to know him, I got to know his childhood, I got to know what he thinks about the world, how to raise families, the principle they have. So these are really, really important for us. It's just not about the product. And you know, this is what I learned after sixteen years, that there are a lot of people can build product, only few can build companies. And building companies just beyond coding and beyond having offices or a strategy or roadmap is combination of being an exceptional visionary entrepreneur and an amazing human being.

• 15:54Harry Stebbings?

  And and talking kind of the right company building there, and you mentioned obviously like captains of the ship. And but before that, you mentioned Andy Rubin with regards to this characteristic. Uh, and he was obviously the founder that you backed with Danger, and you invested four hundred K of uh dollars of Amitsad money into Danger. And eight years later, you received a two X return despite the sale for five hundred million to Microsoft. Was that a big learning curve for you? And and how did it alter your approach after this, when you saw this happen?

• 16:25Speaker 02

  Uh, that's actually a really good question. I think Danger was really was ahead of its time. I think it was the first smartphone came in, but the broadband was really not there. The penetration of mobile phone was not there. And as a hardware software software company, they had to raise a huge amount of money, and that's where we got diluted. And this is the problem you have as an angel investor, because you don't have infinite money to invest and keep your per rata. So so basically, we got diluted after eight years. Had we participated and kept our ownership after the initial investment, we'd have made a lot of money through a half a billion dollar acquisition of Danger by Microsoft. But I think what is important today, as I manage to funds with my partner Mark Harrisonson,

• 17:08Speaker 02

  you know, keeping this per rata rights and making sure that we have the ability to maintain our ownership in the companies are growing is really, really important.

• 17:16Harry Stebbings?

  And then when you were establishing yourself in the ecosystem, where when you were. When you were investing the initial two million dollars and and in your kind of formative years investing, were there any other real shocks to the system that changed the way you viewed startups and then the way you invest personally?

• 17:33Speaker 02

  You know, I think the first thing, um, the arrival of of blogs and and getting more information was just pretty phenomenal for me as an engine investor. I think then, you know, Y Combinator start to do an amazing job to to change ecosystem on the ground zero. And, you know, Paul Graham in particular and Jessica Livingston built an amazing practice to get really talented people and that that was pretty amazing. I had always been fan of meeting people face to face and get to know them and that's the essence of of fun today. If you look at our what they do at Pair, our venture capital firm today, we do a lot of social events, we do a lot of gathering with our founders. So

• 18:14Speaker 02

  I I continue to believe that's where you can meet people and, you know, sometimes the whole ecosystem forgets that all of us are are human beings, we need to get to know each other and and that's really, really important. You know, I remember when I started, actually, this is a good story to share, when I started to do angel investing, so I said we need to start to have deal flow. And one of the areas that I thought I'm really strong in being Iranian American, you know, I I knew a lot of Iranians and I said that maybe I should expand that that network. So I was going through the list of PhD students at Stanford Computer Science Department and every other engineering school at Stanford and seeing any Persian name, sending an email and said, this is who I am, why don't we have a Persian tea together?

• 18:58Speaker 02

  And it worked out so great and I'm still doing it. You won't believe how far it goes that when you meet people over Persian tea, especially if they're from your culture and you you you make a bond. And if you look at my portfolio company, some of the best company I ever invested founders are Iranian, you know, naming it Dropbox, one of them, SoundHound, the other one, and then Current Fund has few amazing Iranian founders. So I just believe doing things manually, meeting people, it will go far.

• 19:24Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. A a very famous investor in the UK who told me, uh, his advice for me starting micro and venture. Was the most important thing you'll learn is that beer and breakfast are the two most important times of the day.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Yes. That's so true.

• 19:38Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely, but but I you know, you mentioned one way that your development happened in terms of you'd like to invest alongside other people as time went on, the likes of Yazdani, for example. And you said before that you can learn a lot about someone from their home. And I'm intrigued from kind of viewing so many incredible investors, what have you found to be the commonalities in how they invest and and approach the entrepreneur investor relationship?

• 20:05Speaker 02

  You know, you're you're talking about other investors.

• 20:07Harry Stebbings?

  Other investors from you, watching them witnessing your Mike Moritz, your Mike Abbott, your Yazdani.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Sure, so I think the best investors I had the privilege to work with, and you mentioned a few of the names, they take personal interest in founders. They make sure these founders grow as a human being, as a CEO, as a VP of engineering, you name it. And that's to me is phenomenal. I always encourage the founders who are taking money from us or anybody else, just pair with investors that are not having only interest in the company and the product is in you as a human being also. And that's to me is just phenomenal and great quality of the founders, obviously, in investors, obviously, investors have different backgrounds, different perspective, different specialties.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  So each one brings different value on the table, but I think it's phenomenal that you build a relationship with your founding team to me is is just a very, very rare characteristic of world-class investors.

• 21:06Harry Stebbings?

  And and then final long-form question before we move into the quickfire. And it's that in two thousand and thirteen, you've mentioned pair before in this episode, you decided to start investing your own money and move away from Ahmed's ad. So what was behind that decision and how's your investment thesis altered since you've broken out on your own?

• 21:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I around two thousand eleven, twelve, which I was investing my own money and I felt that there's a big hole is being created on the ground zero in the ecosystem, which means and I was looking at the cap table of of a million dollar first raise and I saw angel investors and I saw a few firms writing checks, but nobody was helping entrepreneur the way venture capital should be, traditional way that you really partner with founders. And I thought, given my background, the network, the deal flow, the know how, the relationship I have, there's an opportunity to build an institution. But I needed having a partner who complements me. So I reached out to Mara Herschinson, who is my the co-founder of of Pair today.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  And she is from Barcelona. She has a PhD from Stanford in engineering. She was a consulting professor and started three companies from scratch. I got to know her through my investment in Danger. Mara's husband was the co-founder of Danger. And in two thousand three, I led her two and a half million dollars, kind of the series A seed round at that time. And I syndicated and and today, if you want to syndicate and any any round, you want angel list, you created, people click and you're done. At that time, I had to go to people's home and and get a check from this CEO or venture capitalists. So and and and Mara sold that company to a public company, ran engineering, started another one. You know, she's MIT lifetime achievement award.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  She was a perfect fit for me because for few things, she started companies from from scratch three times. She has a deep technical background. These are the things I haven't done before. And then we have the same principle in both work and life, just helping people and build something great. So we started this fund, we raised, the first fund was fifty million, we just closed our second one seventy five million. And the whole goal is just investing in companies very early. As you know, we started the fund, the name was Pejman Mara. You know, Mara said, Pejman, everybody knows you in the valley. What do we put your first name there? But we always wanted to build something long lasting. We want Pair stays for for decades here and we need to bring exceptional people. So we it didn't make sense to have our name at the door. We ended up choosing Pair, which we really love. I think, uh, you know, helping entrepreneurs.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Entrepreneurs and ideas are like fruit. They need water, they need soil. And farmers and they're pairing with entrepreneurs. It was a perfect name for us and I think people really like it.

• 23:39Harry Stebbings?

  Absolutely. I love that name. I was gonna ask about the origins of it, but answered for me there. But I'd love to, I'd love to dive into a quick fire round with you now, where I say it in a statement and you give me your immediate thoughts. About sixty seconds per one. How does that sound?

• 23:52Speaker 02

  That's pretty cool. Let's do it. Don't ask me tough questions.

• 23:55Harry Stebbings?

  No tough questions. Okay, well, okay. Favorite book and why?

• 23:58Speaker 02

  You know, Power of Now, I, I love that book because it always remind me to look into moments. And it's just really, really amazing book. You know, I read it by Eckhart Tolle, I forgot to mention the name. So it's just pretty amazing, this spiritual enlightenment book that really encourages you to look into moment. And really realize what's going on in any given time. So it always have been my favorite book. I totally done reading the book, uh, Leading by Sir Alex Ferguson, Mike Moritz. I think that's, that's pretty phenomenal book. Especially if you love football, soccer and you're in tech, you really can, you can really relate to those elements.

• 24:34Harry Stebbings?

  And then the biggest mentor to you and how it came about?

• 24:37Speaker 02

  You know, I think in the tech business, Bobby Azdani has been an amazing friend and mentor to me. He took Sabah from his garage public and then he was a seed investor in Google, Dropbox, Uber and many others. So I think, as I mentioned, I think he, he mentored me, I think, but he took really personal interest to me in making sure that I grow as a person. But I, I tell you, I mean, some people um always ask, who, who, who's the inspiration? To me, just normal people out there, you know, there's a coffee shop, I get my coffee sometimes when I don't have Persian tea. And the barista, it's a, it's a source of inspiration for me. The ma, the way he puts so much love and effort to make the best coffee possible is just so inspiring to me.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  And I wish I could do in my work the way he makes coffee. Um, sometimes my kids' teacher, when I hear a story about them, it's just so inspiring.

• 25:28Harry Stebbings?

  And then the biggest highlight of the journey and the biggest low point was at the yogurt shop with, with no money to call. Now your wife of twenty-two years, I believe.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Yes, I think the biggest achievement is just having a beautiful, healthy, happy family. Our kids were born here, we both. A great life together with my wife here. We started from scratch. I don't know any low point. Even living in that yogurt shop, it just made me who I am today. So I think that's part of the journey. I mean, it has been like challenges throughout the years. You don't have money. There are. You make money and then you have to figure out things, but I I never look at life that you have a very low point of that. I mean, everybody healthy, great friends. So I'm always grateful for what I have today.

• 26:12Harry Stebbings?

  Very envious of your viewpoints, very positive and lovely. Um. But then that this penultimate one is your favorite blog or newsletter. What are your must reads when they come in?

• 26:21Speaker 02

  I I read everything related that I need to know about tech every day. I'm a big fan of soccer, so you can imagine I browse through a lot of them. I just don't have any particular blog or newsletter other than normal things you read around every day.

• 26:35Harry Stebbings?

  I hear you're a big Chelsea fan. Good choice there, Pejman.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's that's exactly opposite. I mean, that was my only hesitation not to take this because, you know, I'm a big Man U fan, so.

• 26:46Harry Stebbings?

  You debated not doing the interview because of that.

• 26:50Harry Stebbings?

  Uh. And then let's finish today on your most recent investment with pair that's publicly announced and and why you said yes.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  You know, I think it's it's a it's a person I mentioned, Jiffy Cat is the company that was founded by an amazing entrepreneur by the name of Richard Rabbit. He grew up in Lebanon. He was such a good student that could have gone to MIT, but he was in the middle of civil war. So there was no plane coming out of Lebanon. He gave his SAT scores to a boat and then the boat sank and he never got to MIT. Few years later, he managed to get PhD at MIT and he was a superstar at Google and Zynga and started a company that got to be the ultimate destination for short form videos. So this is the guy I spent like three hours over at dinner, got to know him and to me was just exactly like what happened to Josh, I think.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  He belongs to a different category of the founders and they're just so honored and excited to be a partner with with him in this journey.

• 27:45Harry Stebbings?

  Well, Pejman, it's been such an honor for me to have you on the show today. As I said, the best story into the industry and and during the industry. So thank you so much for sharing it with me today.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. It was so exciting. Hopefully, um, you change your religion and become a Man U fan next time we talk.

• 28:03Harry Stebbings?

  I mean, I think there's very little I can say about this episode, other than Pejman served as such an inspiration to me and to so many. So I'd like to say a huge thank you to Pejman for giving up his time today to appear on the show and to reveal his incredible journey and for the exciting times ahead with Pear. And if you loved the show today and want to see more from us, then you can follow me on Snapchat @HStubbings, with two Bs. You can follow Pejman on Twitter @PejmanNozad, or you can also check us out on the blog mojito vc.com. We'd absolutely love to hear your thoughts and feedback on that. But before we leave you today, do not forget to check out Intercom. Intercom is the first to bring messaging products for marketing and customer support together on one integrated platform. With Intercom, businesses can chat directly with prospective customers on their website, engage with current users with targeted messages based on their behaviour,

• 28:48Harry Stebbings?

  and provide personal support at scale with an integrated helpdesk and knowledge base. All products are powered by live customer data, helping businesses avoid the stiff, spammy status quo, and have real conversations to build real connections throughout the entire customer lifecycle. This is perfect for businesses that want to help people visiting their website become customers, and for marketing and growth teams that want to onboard and retain users by sending the right messages at the right times. So simply head over to intercom.com/20MVC, that's 20MVC. And speaking of serving your clients better there with Intercom, no one can beat Cooley for serving their clients for the longest. Cooley is a global law firm built around startups and venture capital firms. Since forming the first venture fund in Silicon Valley, Cooley's formed more venture capital funds than any

• 29:32Harry Stebbings?

  other law firm in the world. With 50-plus years working with VCs, they help VCs form and manage funds, make investments, and handle the myriad of issues that arise through a fund's lifetime. So to learn more about the number one most active law firm representing VC-backed companies going public, head over to Cooley.com and also check them out at Cooleygo.com. I would like to say a huge thank you, as always, for your incredible support, and I look very forward to bringing you Wednesday's episode with Ben Blumenfeld, general partner and co-founder at Designer Fund.