535 - Mute It For Sure

This week, Georgia covers the life, death, and legacy of Matthew Shepard. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here: www.exactlyrightstore.com http://www.exactlyrightstore.com/. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

• 0:42Georgia Hardstark?

  There are plenty of things that keep you up at night. Your sleep tracker shouldn't be one of them.

• 0:46Karen Kilgariff?

  You know that feeling, laying in bed, staring at the ceiling, counting all the times you said something weird.

• 0:52Georgia Hardstark?

  And then you wake up and check your sleep score. Now you have to start your day knowing that you failed at sleeping.

• 0:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Hatch Sleep Clock does it differently.

• 0:59Georgia Hardstark?

  It tracks your sleep from your nightstand. No ring, wristband, or judgmental score waiting for you in the morning.

• 1:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Instead, you'll get personalized insights to understand your sleep and recommendations to build a routine you'll love night after night.

• 1:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Fall asleep to the next chapter of an audiobook like The Odyssey, a nervous system reset meditation, or a calming sound bath.

• 1:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you can find out which gives you 20 more minutes of deep sleep each night.

• 1:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Hatch Sleep Clock.

• 1:23Karen Kilgariff?

  The sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep. Available now on hatch.co.

• 1:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 1:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello and welcome.

• 1:47Georgia Hardstark?

  To my favorite murder.

• 1:48Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstart.

• 1:49Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 1:51Karen Kilgariff?

  This is podcasting.

• 1:52Georgia Hardstark?

  101.

• 1:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It is real basic.

• 1:55Georgia Hardstark?

  This is community college podcasting brought to you by...

• 1:58Karen Kilgariff?

  The stoners in the back of the room.

• 1:59Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. We'll see you at the smoking tree.

• 2:01Karen Kilgariff?

  We were like...

• 2:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Extra credit.

• 2:03Karen Kilgariff?

  My favorite place, the smoking tree. We were like, we'll take this class. We're going to audit this class.

• 2:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 2:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure, they might try to give us a grade.

• 2:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. I heard the teacher is like really chill. Like, the final is bowling. You go bowling.

• 2:15Karen Kilgariff?

  The final is you have to tell the same story 25 times.

• 2:19Georgia Hardstark?

  For 10-plus years. What a gift.

• 2:23Georgia Hardstark?

  What's going on?

• 2:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Pick the wrong color foundation again?

• 2:26Georgia Hardstark?

  I thought you were gonna get where it says shirt. Cause you're wearing a black shirt. Never. Like, that looks black to me.

• 2:30Karen Kilgariff?

  This?

• 2:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Wrong color foundation.

• 2:32Karen Kilgariff?

  I bet I look like, kinda like a floating head over this table.

• 2:34Georgia Hardstark?

  You do look like a mime. Yeah, there she goes.

• 2:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't make me put my piggy little hands up in the air.

• 2:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Folks, you can see those hands on Netflix.

• 2:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Listeners, get up to date.

• 2:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 2:47Karen Kilgariff?

  You can also watch us and be watchers.

• 2:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Put it on the background so Netflix thinks we're killing it. You don't even have to look at us.

• 2:52Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. Put it on the background, mute it.

• 2:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Mute it, for sure. You know what we should do? Let's start pushing for the way I give Cookie reggae. Let's start having people put this on for their pets when they leave them alone at the house.

• 3:04Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. Let's game the system.

• 3:07Georgia Hardstark?

  We fucking love animals so much. If you put this on while you're gone, it'll make your animals feel better.

• 3:13Karen Kilgariff?

  It's good for your animals, it's good for numbers.

• 3:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Your children, you wanna leave your children at home?

• 3:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yay. We're very soothing. We only say the F-word every once in a while.

• 3:21Georgia Hardstark?

  We're basically babysitters.

• 3:22Karen Kilgariff?

  At least at the top of the show. What are you up to?

• 3:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Nothing, but when this comes out, I'll have watched and known what happens in the last episode of Euphoria. So I'm really jealous of my future.

• 3:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay. Cause you're just hanging on by a thread?

• 3:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I just wanna, I just wanna see what happens. I'm hooked.

• 3:38Karen Kilgariff?

  I think I stopped watching Euphoria, and I'm sorry, cause you know I love Martha Kelly the most.

• 3:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Of course.

• 3:42Karen Kilgariff?

  I stopped watching after there was like some party that they all went to and things happened at it. And then the anxiety that I felt during that entire scene, I was just like, oh, I don't have to live through this anymore.

• 3:55Georgia Hardstark?

  You're not in high school anymore.

• 3:56Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 3:57Georgia Hardstark?

  It's very stressful. It's very flawed and imperfect, but there's something about it that I, and I'm totally not there, like demographic as an old lady, but...

• 4:05Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's Zendaya, right?

• 4:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, so it's like, she's just incredible. I mean, everyone, they're all incredible.

• 4:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Shout out to Murderino, fucking Ma'adap Chow, by the way.

• 4:14Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. And she's right up on that thing.

• 4:17Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. She's so good at it.

• 4:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Hi. Congratulations, you're doing great.

• 4:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Iris, we love you too.

• 4:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Iris.

• 4:24Georgia Hardstark?

  All of you.

• 4:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey, we met you once. That's so funny. I had actually a true crime update for you.

• 4:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that's okay. That's what this is.

• 4:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It is what we're supposed to be doing.

• 4:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 4:32Karen Kilgariff?

  But we were talking about Murdoch murders and that update and basically saying to each other, we wish we knew what things meant.

• 4:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:40Karen Kilgariff?

  And what's exciting about that is because we have this podcast network, we have podcasts on here with people who do know what things mean.

• 4:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 4:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Most recently, Brief Recession, hosted by Michael Foot and Melissa Mallabranche, and they went over all of this on their show.

• 4:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 4:55Karen Kilgariff?

  So I was like, oh, I'll just go get the information from them.

• 4:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:59Karen Kilgariff?

  And tell you. So the source of this is Michael Foot, Melissa Mallabranche, and the Brief Recession podcast, which, if you haven't listened to it.

• 5:06Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so fucking good.

• 5:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Michael is currently an immigration attorney fighting for people being kidnapped by ICE in New York City. You can follow him on TikTok. He talks about all the different things he goes through.

• 5:19Georgia Hardstark?

  And he's delightful and like so entertaining.

• 5:21Karen Kilgariff?

  So funny.

• 5:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Lawyers. You're like, oh, lawyers, whatever. But no, he's like.

• 5:25Karen Kilgariff?

  He's a.

• 5:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Joyous.

• 5:26Karen Kilgariff?

  He's an amazing man. And then he also started explaining things about this case where when I heard him talk about it, it's that thing of like, oh, it's so much better when somebody who knows what they're talking about is breaking the news. Because they do things like, you know, he immediately said, this does not mean that Alec Murdoch walks free.

• 5:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. So what does it mean?

• 5:46Karen Kilgariff?

  So the South Carolina Supreme Court vacated his double murder conviction. He's currently serving a sentence of 40 years in prison for embezzling money, many counts of embezzling money. But their appeals were made by Murdoch's lawyer and it found that a county clerk improperly influenced jurors.

• 6:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 6:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And so they basically said he didn't get a fair trial for those murders.

• 6:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 6:12Karen Kilgariff?

  The jury interference centered on comments that this county clerk made to the jurors telling them to watch Alec Murdoch's body language in court.

• 6:22Karen Kilgariff?

  So kind of like-

• 6:23Georgia Hardstark?

  County clerk shouldn't be saying anything to the jurors, right?

• 6:25Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't think so.

• 6:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 6:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, clearly not if what they do can vacate a guilty verdict. That's insane. Of course, when they were discussing it, Michael and Melissa talked about how baffling that behavior was and that, of course, now other legitimate convictions can be overturned because of it, or because of a county clerk that's interfering.

• 6:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 6:48Karen Kilgariff?

  So apparently, there will be a retrial, the stakes will be higher, prosecution could recommend the death penalty this time around.

• 6:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Whoa.

• 6:56Karen Kilgariff?

  And Alec Murdoch is suing the county clerk in federal court for this influence.

• 7:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Personally suing her.

• 7:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 7:02Georgia Hardstark?

  I wonder, what is her story?

• 7:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Is this an overactive true crime fan that's like, hey, this is what needs to be happening here?

• 7:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 7:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Or is it a person that's just like, hey, I've watched this person in this courtroom for my whole career. Here's the thing he does when he's lying.

• 7:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Or is just a nosy neighbor who's like, likes to chit chat.

• 7:22Karen Kilgariff?

  It kind of doesn't matter.

• 7:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Doesn't matter, but I'm so curious now about that.

• 7:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like, how could you have risked something this important?

• 7:31Georgia Hardstark?

  I want to see Martha Kelly play her. Like, that's who I'm picturing.

• 7:34Karen Kilgariff?

  The county clerk?

• 7:35Georgia Hardstark?

  A Martha Kelly character.

• 7:38Karen Kilgariff?

  That's so funny. All right, well, should we get into it? The highlights?

• 7:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, we have a highlight, we don't have a highlight network. We're, this isn't Highlights Magazine. We have a podcast network called Exactly Right Media.

• 7:48Karen Kilgariff?

  We should do a podcast about Highlights Magazine, though.

• 7:51Georgia Hardstark?

  That would be so cute.

• 7:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I could read that thing forever.

• 7:54Georgia Hardstark?

  90s magazines podcast.

• 7:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Hell, yeah. I think it started in the 50s or 60s, didn't it?

• 7:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 7:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Goofus and Gallant is not a 90s creation. There's no way.

• 8:04Georgia Hardstark?

  This is Exactly Right Media.

• 8:06Karen Kilgariff?

  That's correct.

• 8:06Georgia Hardstark?

  We have podcasts on our network.

• 8:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Like the one I was just talking about?

• 8:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. Here are some more highlights.

• 8:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. This week, it's the 300th episode of I Said No Gifts.

• 8:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 8:15Karen Kilgariff?

  On this episode, Bridger does everything he can to avoid fighting with Ellie Kemper. You know her from Kimmy Schmidt, The Office. She does arrive with the gift, so a battle ensues. And then they talk about everything from sunburns to the latest on a star's suspicious death.

• 8:32Georgia Hardstark?

  I missed her in The Office. I was so bummed. I was like, there that day, but we didn't cross paths, so.

• 8:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Were you on The Office?

• 8:39Georgia Hardstark?

  In The Office. Our office. Exactly.

• 8:45Karen Kilgariff?

  I was like, how do I not sell this?

• 8:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I missed her in our, I get that, yup, I hear what you're saying. I was in our Exactly Right Media offices, not on the TV show The Office.

• 8:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my god.

• 9:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Over on Dear Movies, I Love You, Millie and Casey kick off their month-long celebration of Video Nasties, a famous collection of VHS tapes that were banned from the UK in the 1980s.

• 9:12Karen Kilgariff?

  So cool.

• 9:12Georgia Hardstark?

  And they're calling it June Nasty?

• 9:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 9:15Georgia Hardstark?

  As in June and nasty?

• 9:17Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 9:17Georgia Hardstark?

  First up is the 1963 horror classic Blood Feast. You gotta love a banned movie.

• 9:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 9:24Georgia Hardstark?

  So good.

• 9:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, Millie is such a, what do you call it?

• 9:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Connoisseur?

• 9:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, but she's, it's more than that. She's an archivist. She's an expert in movies. So she talks about it from every perspective, which is like the fan perspective, the production perspective, the time, the place, the history. It's so great.

• 9:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Love that.

• 9:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, this week over on Hollywoodland, Jake covers Lucille Ball's Red Scare scandal from the news report that exposed her former ties to a Communist Party, to the government surveillance that continued on her long after America had moved on from McCarthyism.

• 9:57Georgia Hardstark?

  I love when Desi said, "The only thing red about her is her hair, and even that's fake."

• 10:02Karen Kilgariff?

  What a time, McCarthyism.

• 10:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Feels familiar. And lastly, a reminder from our merch department, yes, that is in all caps, if you don't have anything nice to say, you can always wear it with our Fuck Politeness merch.

• 10:15Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 10:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Grab the Fuck Politeness Script Unisex T-shirt, koozie, or whistle now at ExactlyRightStore.com.

• 10:22Karen Kilgariff?

  The end.

• 10:23Georgia Hardstark?

  The end. The holidays are right around the corner, which means people are about to do a lot of shopping.

• 10:29Karen Kilgariff?

  And if you have a small business, they could be shopping with you.

• 10:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Get your business ready with Shopify.

• 10:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Shopify is the platform for a record-breaking, reliable holiday selling season at every stage.

• 10:39Georgia Hardstark?

  They power millions of businesses worldwide, from household names to those that are just getting started.

• 10:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Shopify's pre-built website themes make it easy to launch a beautiful, professional-looking store without ever touching a line of code.

• 10:50Georgia Hardstark?

  And Shopify's mobile app lets you run your store from anywhere, from tracking inventory, to customer support, to handling payments, and more.

• 10:57Karen Kilgariff?

  If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com/murder to start your free trial.

• 11:03Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Shopify.com/murder.

• 11:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to Shopify.com/murder today to hear your first

• 11:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 11:13Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, it's solo week and I'm going.

• 11:17Karen Kilgariff?

  You're gonna go.

• 11:18Georgia Hardstark?

  First and only.

• 11:18Karen Kilgariff?

  First and only and alone. Good luck.

• 11:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Are you leaving?

• 11:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Good luck, players.

• 11:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 11:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep, and then I just put a weird balloon with my head on it here, like with my face on it.

• 11:28Georgia Hardstark?

  The black sweater. Okay, this one's heavy. So it's Pride Month.

• 11:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 11:33Georgia Hardstark?

  And today I'm going to cover a story about a horrific hate crime that would become one of the most notorious in American history. And I do think it's surprising to some people that you and I have only discussed this in a minisode. It's only been told in a minisode. And I think part of the reason we haven't covered it is because, despite it being a hugely important story, is because you and I were of age and young women when it happened in the 90s. And it was so horrific that even 20, more than 25 years later, it almost feels too awful to talk about. And it's such a shameful part of our US history that you and I just haven't been able to go there.

• 12:11Karen Kilgariff?

  There are definitely cases that we have talked about where the actual violence of the case is so extreme and just repetitive and whatever, that we're just like, we don't know how to handle this correctly.

• 12:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 12:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And especially after years of like hearing back when we don't handle things correctly.

• 12:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 12:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I think more and more, we got more and more careful with, and we couldn't not handle something correctly.

• 12:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And so I've been really nervous about doing this. Thank you to Ali Elkin, my researcher, because this also meant a lot to her as well. So I think we'll handle it.

• 12:43Karen Kilgariff?

  It's important to do it. It's important to talk about it.

• 12:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. So this story is tragic, but it's also an event that completely changed the conversation around gay people in America, particularly young gay people. It led to hate crime legislation being passed, and it led to communities around the country realizing they must become safe places for their LGBTQ young people to live their lives truthfully and without fear. But even though it's been close to 30 years, this is still an issue, obviously, that LGBTQIA+ people face daily. So it's important for us to cover this story, I think. And this is the story of Matthew Shepard. Yeah. The main sources for the story is a 1999 article from Vanity Fair by Melanie Thernstrom, as well as MatthewShepard.org and a BBC article called "Matthew Shepard: The Murder That Changed America"

• 13:30Georgia Hardstark?

  by Jude Sheeran. And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So it's the evening of October 7, 1998, and we are just outside of Laramie, Wyoming. We're just east of the city. Laramie is home to the University of Wyoming. And like most college towns, it's considered to be pretty liberal for what is not a liberal state. A mountain biker and University of Washington freshman named Aaron has just fallen off his bike, just riding on some paths, when he notices leaning up against a wooden fence what he thinks at first is a scarecrow. Aaron then realizes to his horror that he is looking at a person who has been beaten nearly to death. He runs to a nearby residence to use the phone to call police.

• 14:13Georgia Hardstark?

  The victim is male, about five foot two and really slight. So at first, responding officers think that it's a young teenager. He is unrecognizable and his face is covered in blood except for the places where the tears have made tracks down his face, which is just a heart wrenching detail. But he is alive. The boy is rushed to the nearest hospital, where coincidentally, two other young men from town are being treated from injuries that they sustained in a street fight the night before. And so police are aware of that. And these men had been driving a truck in which police had found blood, a gun, and a wallet with an ID belonging to a 21-year-old named Matthew Shepard. And so it doesn't take long for the police to realize

• 14:57Georgia Hardstark?

  that this is the identity of the young man, who is now in the same hospital, very tenuously holding on to life. And that the boys who were taken in the night before are part of this. So let me tell you a little bit about Matthew Shepard. He's born on December 1, 1976, to Judy and Dennis Shepard in Casper, Wyoming. He is a friendly child, though he is bullied by- By his peers sometimes for being small and relatively unathletic. And also because as he gets older, he doesn't go to great lengths to hide the fact that he's gay. From an early age, he's fascinated by politics. His mom's hairdresser recounts a story about Matthew when he's seven or eight years old, ahead of a local election, saying, quote, "He came into our shop and told us all how to vote, and he knew, he knew the issues. We all thought he was going to grow up to be the president."

• 15:43Georgia Hardstark?

  End quote. When Matthew was a teenager, his father, who works for the oil industry, takes a job in Saudi Arabia. Matthew goes to the American School in Switzerland. In high school, he's elected by his peers to be a peer counselor. And by all accounts, he's easy to talk to and makes friends easily. When Matthew was a senior on a school trip in Morocco, he is violently sexually assaulted by a group of locals. His mother Judy says that she felt that his trauma made him more prone to further trauma, and people could sense his vulnerability. After Matthew graduates high school, he officially comes out to his family, who are supportive, especially his mother, who he's very close to. When he's 21, he enrolls at the University of Wyoming in Laramie,

• 16:28Georgia Hardstark?

  majoring in political science with a minor in languages. And it seems like he starts to thrive in the college setting. And he's actually chosen as the student representative for the Wyoming Environmental Council. And it's his dream to work as a diplomat for the Department of State. And so let's look at a picture of him. I mean, you and I know it's so, well, it's just seared into our memories. But here's a picture of him, his braces, and just like such a sweet-looking kid. So sweet. So back to the night of October 6th, the night of the attack. Matthew had gone to a meeting of the college's LGBT Association, where he helps plan events for the upcoming Gay Awareness Week, which is set to begin the following Monday. And after the meeting, Matthew says he plans to go to a bar called The Fireside,

• 17:13Georgia Hardstark?

  but no one else seems up for it. So he goes alone and arrives around 10:00 PM, has a few drinks at the bar. And it seems like he's also hanging out with two regulars named Erin McKinney and Russell Henderson. Both are around Matthew's age, but they are not Students at the university, they're actually locals known to be currently having issues with meth addiction and are possibly dealing meth and they're known to frequently get in fights and get in trouble. So they're more of a local, you know, troublemakers. The detail that gets debated is whether or not Matthew had also been a user of meth or possibly involved in the meth trade and whether he knew Aaron and Russell prior to this evening. And it's this whole controversial conversation around it, but I don't think

• 17:54Georgia Hardstark?

  it's important to the story. And also, we don't need him to be a perfect victim.

• 18:00Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 18:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Or have this in any way means he deserved something like this to happen to him. So I don't even want to talk about the.

• 18:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, also there, I do think there is, and this you see it online all the time, but there's this kind of need that some people have to be like, I don't have to empathize with this because, and then they find their reason. It's a very sad kind of human denial of like, I can't handle this or I can't be made to think more than one way about this topic.

• 18:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, right. 100%. But the story that most people, including the police and Matthew's family, believes that Matthew did not have any significant prior interactions with Aaron and Russell, and whether or not he had a drug problem, which is unclear, is pretty immaterial to the rest of the story.

• 18:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 18:45Georgia Hardstark?

  So witnesses at the bar see the three men leave together around midnight. And at 1:30 in the morning, according to Aaron's girlfriend, Aaron returns home covered in blood, saying he has done something horrible, that he may have killed someone. Aaron says that he and Russell had made plans to pose as being gay so that they could rob Matthew. And that was the whole point. And they drove him to a remote area. But even though Matthew gave them his wallet, which by the way, only had $20 in it. It's just so fucking senseless. They tied him to the fence, beat him brutally and repeatedly with a handgun and took his shoes so he would not be able to walk and get help. And so then Aaron and Russell head

• 19:28Georgia Hardstark?

  towards Matthew's home with, it seems like, plans to rob it because they had Matthew's key and had taken it from him. But they get sidetracked in that street fight on the way.

• 19:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, the street fight was real?

• 19:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Street fight's real. On the way, they get in a street fight, which seems like they were the.

• 19:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I think it's probably pretty safe to say that Matthew Shepard was not like friends or associates with these people.

• 19:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. You're right. It's just people wanting to not have to care as much about other people. So Russell is caught and taken to the hospital. Aaron escapes and runs off and goes home, tells his girlfriend what happened. But then he goes to the hospital where the police catch up with him and they find that evidence in his truck. So in his official confession to the police, Aaron says the motive was robbery and that they had tried to kill Matthew because they believed he could identify them. But his girlfriend says that the fact that Matthew was gay was a key reason they wanted to hurt him. And this is like something that's just debated since then and to this day. And he doesn't admit it on the official record at the time, but later in 2009, Aaron tells

• 20:32Georgia Hardstark?

  a journalist, quote, "The night I did it, I did have hatred for homosexuals," end quote. So it's from the actual perpetrator who says that. So what's the debate?

• 20:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry. Are people saying the debate is it just was that they were trying to rob him and it was not associated with that?

• 20:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 20:49Karen Kilgariff?

  That then they would have just robbed him?

• 20:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Right. Right.

• 20:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so frustrating when you hear all of that and you know where it's just like, sure, if you want to entertain every possibility in the world so that there is no actual accountability.

• 21:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 21:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you can introduce ideas like that all day long.

• 21:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 21:07Karen Kilgariff?

  But you know you're bullshitting.

• 21:08Georgia Hardstark?

  If you're the one introducing these reasons why you shouldn't have to feel bad for someone who was murdered, then you need to look at your own self. It's like, it's about you.

• 21:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's fully about you.

• 21:18Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not.

• 21:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Look, there's a thing called projection and you need to look it up at the library.

• 21:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 21:24Karen Kilgariff?

  We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 21:29Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.

• 21:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 21:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 21:48Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solace Health.

• 21:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help. You get answers fast.

• 21:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 22:02Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 22:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 22:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 22:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 22:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services must be 18 years or older.

• 22:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.

• 22:28Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes and it's covered by insurance.

• 22:30Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S.O.L.A.C.E. health.com/murder.

• 22:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 22:36Karen Kilgariff?

  You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.

• 22:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 22:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.

• 22:51Georgia Hardstark?

  If you need a reset after a crazy day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. It's an effortless way to get a boost of topical magnesium that can help you relax your body and mind before bedtime.

• 23:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast drying formula.

• 23:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.

• 23:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping. And when there's something this simple, you just spray it on your feet and suddenly you're asleep and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.

• 23:25Georgia Hardstark?

  And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?

• 23:28Karen Kilgariff?

  How dare you call my feet stinky?

• 23:31Georgia Hardstark?

  For wellness, you can feel find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.

• 23:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Between work, school, family obligations, and the endless Halloween hustle, it often feels like there's never a good time to slow down. The costumes, the parties, the planning, it all adds up. But no matter how busy life gets, even a small break can help us recharge, reset, and actually enjoy the moment we're in. Because breaks don't have to be big to matter. They can be the 15 minutes in your car before pickup, or the two minutes while your little pumpkin ties his shoes. The pause between one task and the next. When you finally get a second to yourself, Kit Kat gives people permission to take the break they've earned and make it a better break, a real break. Because when you stop, even briefly, you don't fall behind. You come back a little lighter, a little clearer, a little more ready for whatever's next.

• 24:21Karen Kilgariff?

  While the world tells us to keep going, Kit Kat reminds us that the best time for a break is now. Have a break, have a Kit Kat. Goodbye.

• 24:30Georgia Hardstark?

  So, in the background of all of this, let's talk about this. There is already a lot of big conversations going on in the country about the visibility of gay people. I think at the 90s is kind of when it started to be accepted in mainstream culture a little bit more. There was like a tipping point when gay people and gay stories are being fully integrated into mainstream culture and into the media. In 1994, Wilson Cruz is the first openly gay actor playing an openly gay character in my so-called life. So that's 1994.

• 25:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 25:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Of course, Ellen DeGeneres in 1997 comes out, both as her character on the huge sitcom Ellen and in real life on the cover of Time Magazine. So if you're not old enough to remember it, that's a good indication of what the culture was like. It was such a big deal that someone was coming out, both in their show and in person, that it was on the cover of a magazine, front page news.

• 25:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 25:25Georgia Hardstark?

  And there were plenty of people who were outraged and advertisers who pulled out from that episode of Ellen because...

• 25:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It was...

• 25:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 25:33Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so different now.

• 25:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 25:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's beautiful how different it is now. But to think about that time is so bizarre. Whereas like, when you started talking about like there was representation a little bit here and there, it's like, right, you get like one funny, over-the-top gay guy who had to be mocked the whole time.

• 25:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 25:52Karen Kilgariff?

  The representation was so skewed and weird and bigoted in a weird way.

• 25:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Although Wilson Cruz, really, that was a watershed moment.

• 26:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, so I was a teenager at the time and like we used to be called people gay as a insult. That was like, I feel like people don't, the F word was used all the time, just casually. And I'm from a really conservative town and the only like out gay people were like the goths. So it was already them being like totally ostracized. The only way you could come out. So, yeah, I had some cousins and friends who were, but it was not mainstream at all.

• 26:33Karen Kilgariff?

  No, it was, no, everybody had to go find their niche to go be in and be out of the mainstream.

• 26:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 26:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Because you weren't going to be a quarterback and you weren't going to be the head cheerleader. So go find the other people who are outcasts in the, I'm talking about the theater department.

• 26:51Georgia Hardstark?

  So slurs were regularly and casually used in society and in the media. The AIDS crisis stigmatized gay people as it was thought of as a gay, quote, gay disease. The quote, gay panic defense was a real fucking legal strategy that was frequently used. And it would allow the perpetrators to claim temporary insanity or extreme fright upon discovering a person's sexual orientation, which often resulted in lenient sentences or acquittals for assaulting or murdering LGBTQIA plus individuals. So if you say, yes, I violently murdered someone because they put their hand on my leg and I realized they were gay and hitting on me and I went crazy, that was a legitimate defense that worked.

• 27:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, and now we know that actually that's just admission that you probably harbor a lot of feelings that you're conflicted and worried about. So that's actually what was going on there. I mean, like, there has been progress culturally in terms of just people's understanding.

• 27:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 27:49Karen Kilgariff?

  But I think it's because more and more people have the ability, like, there's so many more people that are able to have a voice these days.

• 27:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and represent.

• 27:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 27:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, so obviously, we're not saying everything is great right now, and that doesn't need so much more work, but from where we're coming from in the 90s in this era, like, it was just fucking disgusting.

• 28:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, here are our points, because women are constantly explaining why, but we're not covering this, and we're not, but we do mean this, and it da-da-da-da. It's just like, you know what we mean.

• 28:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Well, not the people who don't want to.

• 28:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 28:20Georgia Hardstark?

  The people that we talk to, to go to the library and look up those. Those people don't want to know.

• 28:24Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no. They're not here for this, though. Those people are always, they're just online for the bullshit.

• 28:29Georgia Hardstark?

  This isn't your show. There's so many true crime shows. This isn't yours.

• 28:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Go, go.

• 28:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Go, go find another one.

• 28:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Have you been in the comments recently? Is this what's happening?

• 28:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Me? No. But it has stuck with me.

• 28:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 28:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, so that's what's going on in the background when the news of Matthew Shepard's horrific injuries comes out. Matthew was transferred to a more resourced hospital in Fort Collins, Colorado. His parents have to fly back from Saudi Arabia. I mean, imagine them on that flight home, how fucking terrified they were. The sheriff, O'Malley, he says that Matthew was, quote, "struck in the head and face between 19 and 21 times with the butt of a very large Smith & Wesson revolver. The only time I've ever seen those dramatic of injuries were in high-speed traffic crashes, you know, where there was just extremely violent compression fractures to the skull," end quote. And in fact, his parents only recognized

• 29:22Georgia Hardstark?

  him when they'd come into the hospital room at first because they saw his braces. Like, he just was unrecognizable. Ultimately, Matthew Shepard had been tied to a split-rail fence, beaten with the butt of a gun, and left to die in the cold of the night until he was found almost 18 hours later, and only because that kid fell off of his bike. While his parents are at Matthew's bedside, the story gets bigger and bigger. It's on the cover of Time. President Bill Clinton calls them. Elton John, Madonna, Barbra Streisand, they are all getting involved. And the hospital's so overwhelmed by calls to check on his condition that it begins posting updates on its nascent website in 1998, which wasn't really a thing back then.

• 30:06Georgia Hardstark?

  So the Shepherds in the nation are devastated when Matthew succumbs to his injuries on October 12th, 1998. And just so everyone knows how hateful it all was, at his funeral service in the family's hometown of Casper, Wyoming, a week later, it is picketed by anti-gay preacher Reverend Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church.

• 30:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 30:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Along with his followers, including children, they held placards with homophobic slurs and shouted to the mourners that the dead student was burning in hell. And in fact, this is so horrific, Dennis Shepherd, Matthew's father, was made to wear a bulletproof vest to his son's funeral. And the church had been checked by bomb-sneeping dogs, and there were SWAT teams at the front and back of the building, and police snipers on rooftops.

• 30:52Karen Kilgariff?

  For the funeral of a victim of this horrible attack.

• 30:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. The story immediately sparks national outrage. Writer Andrew Sullivan says, quote, "I think a lot of gay people, when they first heard of that horrifying event, felt sort of punched in the stomach. I mean, it kind of encapsulated all our fears of being victimized," end quote. So Aaron and Russell are both charged with first-degree murder, kidnapping, and robbery, and their girlfriends are charged as accessories, since both tried to dispose of the clothes Russell had been wearing. Russell pleads guilty, and Aaron goes to trial and is found guilty, and each are given two life sentences. And the story there is a lot bigger. I definitely think people should go look it up. So in the wake of Matthew's death, his parents form the Matthew Shepard Foundation, which

• 31:38Georgia Hardstark?

  has online and offline resources for creating safe schools and communities. They also lobby for years for federal hate crime legislation to be expanded to include crimes based on sexuality and gender identity. This is a long story, and there's a documentary called "The Matthew Shepard Story: An American Hate Crime." But essentially, the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act finally passes and is signed by President Barack Obama in October of 2009, 11 years after Matthew's death. And just to note, James Byrd is a black man who was murdered by white supremacists in Texas in 1998.

• 32:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Matthew's parents hold on to his ashes for 20 years because they're so afraid that if they enter him in a public place, his grave will be vandalized. They don't want to see that happen, obviously. And then in 2018, the right Reverend Mary Ann Buddy invites the Shepherd family to inter Matthew in the National Cathedral. So on October 26, 2018, Matthew is laid to rest in the National Cathedral's tomb alongside the likes of former President Woodrow Wilson and Helen Keller.

• 32:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Holy shit. I didn't know that.

• 32:51Georgia Hardstark?

  And not even Harvey Milk, you know, another prominent gay man who was murdered, was buried there.

• 32:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, that was so long before, whereas like...

• 33:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Taller. Yeah, 2018 it took to allow it.

• 33:05Karen Kilgariff?

  We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 33:10Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork, and trying to figure out who to call.

• 33:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 33:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 33:29Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solace Health.

• 33:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.

• 33:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 33:43Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 33:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 33:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes, and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 33:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 34:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services, must be 18 years or older.

• 34:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.

• 34:09Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes, and it's covered by insurance.

• 34:11Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S-O-L-A-C-E health.com/murder.

• 34:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 34:17Karen Kilgariff?

  You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.

• 34:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 34:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea It's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.

• 34:32Georgia Hardstark?

  If you need a reset after a crazy day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. It's an effortless way to get a boost of topical magnesium that can help you relax your body and mind before bedtime.

• 34:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast drying formula.

• 34:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.

• 34:51Karen Kilgariff?

  I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping. And when there's something this simple, you just sprayed on your feet and suddenly you're asleep and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.

• 35:06Georgia Hardstark?

  And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?

• 35:09Karen Kilgariff?

  How dare you call my feet stinky?

• 35:12Georgia Hardstark?

  For wellness you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.

• 35:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Between work, school, family obligations, and the endless Halloween hustle, it often feels like there's never a good time to slow down. The costumes, the parties, the planning, it all adds up. But no matter how busy life gets, even a small break can help us recharge, reset, and actually enjoy the moment we're in. Because breaks don't have to be big to matter. They can be the 15 minutes in your car before pickup, or the two minutes while your little pumpkin ties his shoes, the pause between one task and the next, when you finally get a second to yourself. Kit Kat gives people permission to take the break they've earned and make it a better break, a real break. Because when you stop, even briefly, you don't fall behind. You come back a little lighter, a little clearer, a little more ready for whatever's next.

• 36:02Karen Kilgariff?

  While the world tells us to keep going, Kit Kat reminds us that the best time for a break is now. Have a break, have a Kit Kat. Goodbye.

• 36:10Georgia Hardstark?

  During the ceremony, the Episcopal Church's first openly gay bishop, the Right Reverend Gene Robinson, says, quote, "Gently rest in this place. You are safe now. Matthew, welcome home." So a collection of personal effects were donated by his family in 2018 for display at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of American History in the US Capitol, which I didn't know about. His schoolwork, some of his theater scripts, and items from his everyday life as a reminder that he was a normal American boy were donated by his family, as well as condolence cards and correspondence that the shepherds received following his death, which must be so powerful. Judy Shepherd, his mother, who frequently speaks out against Trump administration

• 36:55Georgia Hardstark?

  policies that have rolled back or undermined the protection she's fought for in the wake of her son's death, said about the Smithsonian donation, quote, "For 20 years, we have tried to share the meaning of our son's life, as well as his dreams for a kinder, more accepting and loving world. It is deeply comforting to know the Smithsonian will preserve his story and meaning for future generations. We cannot think of a better way to honor Matt's life and legacy." It ends with this quote, "The life and death of Matthew Shepard changed the way we talk about and deal with hate in America. Since his death, Matt's legacy has challenged and inspired millions of individuals to erase hate in all its forms. Although Matt's life was short, his story continues to have great impact on young and old alike. His legacy

• 37:40Georgia Hardstark?

  lives on in thousands of people who actively fight to replace hate with understanding, compassion, and acceptance." And that is the story of the life, death, and legacy of Matthew Shepard.

• 37:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow, the worst possible story.

• 37:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 37:56Karen Kilgariff?

  But with real-life impact.

• 37:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 37:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, when you first were talking about it and then you said something about his mother, I immediately was like Judy Shepherd. His parents have been working for so long to make change and to make sure that this isn't something that is... I don't know, there's something about it that like, as you tell it in retrospect, it feels like there was a conscious decision culturally.

• 38:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 38:22Karen Kilgariff?

  By a majority of people, of course, never everyone.

• 38:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 38:26Karen Kilgariff?

  And certainly, there's always going to be people with serious issues and serious problems of their own.

• 38:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 38:32Karen Kilgariff?

  That are going to stand in the way of this. But it was almost like people going, how can we be letting things like this happen and be okay with it?

• 38:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It was shameful as a country that we allowed this to happen. It was 1998, we think we're so, you know...

• 38:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Past all of that.

• 38:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, past it. Or like, we're, yeah, we're...

• 38:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Evolved and

• 38:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, we're so evolved and then this horrific thing happens and everyone is like, this cannot be swept under the rug. We have to be held accountable, not just the murderers, but us as a society who like allows this to happen and thinks this is kind of normal.

• 39:06Karen Kilgariff?

  And then things get turned into like, oh, it's PC, it's woke.

• 39:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 39:11Karen Kilgariff?

  You're being this, you're being that. It's like, no, no, no. These are the moments where the reality punctures through of how people are really being treated that are not white men with money.

• 39:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 39:21Karen Kilgariff?

  And so, any story of things happening to black people and suddenly it's like, no, don't be political, don't be woke, don't be this.

• 39:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 39:29Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's like, no, no, no, these are things you need to know about the facts of people's real lives.

• 39:34Georgia Hardstark?

  And then there's so many people who are like, no, that actually, things like this happen to us all the time.

• 39:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Constantly and you ignore it and don't listen and these rationales. And then it's like, something puncturing through that way, because it's like, it's Wyoming, it's out in the middle of nowhere. And it's just like, there's so many people at risk.

• 39:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 39:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Because they live in the wrong place.

• 39:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 39:53Karen Kilgariff?

  They're surrounded by the wrong people, as opposed to that they're wrong.

• 39:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And it does seem like Laramie, Wyoming, has tried very hard to, yeah.

• 40:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Can you imagine? Your name has become synonymous with like, gay murder.

• 40:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah. It seems like they've tried to change their ways and show that they're not, you know, like that. And hopefully we get some emails for, from hometowns of people from there.

• 40:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 40:15Georgia Hardstark?

  There were a lot of emails of people being like, I'm from here and I just want you to know that it's not like that anymore and we've changed and we accept it.

• 40:22Karen Kilgariff?

  People have tried to memorialize it and really learn from it. And, I don't know, it's so, it's so tough. It's just so big.

• 40:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 40:30Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what it is.

• 40:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Karen Kilgariff?

  I think that discussion is just like, you can't put a silver lining on a thing that continues to just be this fight.

• 40:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 40:39Karen Kilgariff?

  This is just one marginalized group. This is just one of the many in this country that this happens too constantly.

• 40:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, totally. I do think it is this funny thing of like us older people, like when I see a gay couple or have, you know, my friends who are gay, I'm just so happy for them because we think about how

• 40:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It used to be.

• 41:00Georgia Hardstark?

  How it used to be and how

• 41:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh dude, when I watch Trixie and Katya videos and I'm laughing my ass off and they're like doing live shows with gigantic audiences and stuff, and I'm like, this is the dream of me and my high school friends in the theater department, all the nerds and weirdos, where it was like, but, but all these nerds and weirdos are the funniest and most talented and the best ones. And like, we're the ones that should have a say.

• 41:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:27Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's like, and hopefully we're clawing toward a world, the worse things get, the more people know and understand how much they have to fight and fight for each other in whatever way you are marginalized or you are separate or different.

• 41:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:43Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just like, then that's how you have to bring the fight.

• 41:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:46Karen Kilgariff?

  For everybody else.

• 41:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, should we end it by doing a donation to the Matthew Shepard Foundation?

• 41:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, we should.

• 41:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, that's MatthewShepard.org and we're gonna donate $10,000.

• 41:56Karen Kilgariff?

  And you go donate whatever you can. If you don't have money, you can volunteer, you can get involved.

• 42:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 42:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, great job. And you're right, it's an important story to tell.

• 42:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 42:05Karen Kilgariff?

  And a good way to kick off Pride Month.

• 42:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, totally. I wore my pride dress on purpose.

• 42:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey, I didn't notice those little rainbows.

• 42:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't believe it still fit me.

• 42:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. That is the most 80s dress of all time.

• 42:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, isn't it?

• 42:19Karen Kilgariff?

  So good.

• 42:20Georgia Hardstark?

  And look at my tiny little heart necklace.

• 42:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you have so many things.

• 42:23Georgia Hardstark?

  I have so many things. Well, thank you guys for listening. Email us your memories about this time if you need to get it off your chest or how it's affected you. I mean, I'm sure we have listeners that it's affected them personally as well.

• 42:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 42:35Georgia Hardstark?

  So email us at gmail.

• 42:36Karen Kilgariff?

  For sure.

• 42:37Georgia Hardstark?

  At gmail? At myfavoritemurder@gmail.

• 42:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Just, just call gmail and tell them you need to send us a message.

• 42:42Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 42:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, write in anything you think you'd like us to know.

• 42:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 42:46Karen Kilgariff?

  And stay sexy.

• 42:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 42:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 42:50Speaker 04

  Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 42:59Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an exactly right production.

• 43:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

• 43:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Our editor is Aristotle Lasevedo.

• 43:06Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.

• 43:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

• 43:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected].

• 43:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 43:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 43:22Karen Kilgariff?

  And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

• 43:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show.

• 43:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 43:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.

• 43:40Georgia Hardstark?

  With CheapCaribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date all in one search.

• 43:46Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder.

• 43:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to Budget Beach Bliss at your fingertips.

• 43:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to cheapcaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be. Goodbye.

• 44:01Speaker 05

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• 44:32Speaker 00

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