#2232 - Josh Brolin

Josh Brolin is a producer, director, writer, and Academy Award-nominated actor. His memoir, "From under the Truck," is available now. https://www.harpercollins.com/products/from-under-the-truck-josh-brolin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Hey, oh.

• 0:13Speaker 02

  Little Bo Peep. She needed the money.

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 0:17Speaker 02

  Oh. Remember how great that was, man?

• 0:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. When I first met him, it was like one of those weird things where, you know, you know, I mean, you've met a lot of famous people. Some of them, you meet them, you're like, "Oh, fucking really you?"

• 0:29Speaker 02

  Bummer.

• 0:29Joe Rogan?

  It's weird. Oh, there's bummer too, yeah. The bummer ones, that sucks. When you meet someone, they suck. You're like, "Oh, no, you suck."

• 0:36Speaker 02

  I know, exactly.

• 0:37Joe Rogan?

  Some people just not talk. They should only do what they do. Act and sing.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  But then you get to know them. Like, I don't know, like, I'm pretty good at this now, where you don't, where you see people that you, like, looked up to. Like, Eddie Vedder, I had a pretty close relationship with.

• 0:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 0:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I was drinking, and then I would grab his balls. I would do shit like that. And then it was like, "I don't want him around. I don't want Josh around."

• 1:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  I don't like that anymore. I don't want my, you know. And I think Sean Penn appreciated shit like that. Like, "Wow, somebody has the balls."

• 1:11Joe Rogan?

  A little chaos.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  It's not even a little chaos. It's like, "Somebody has the balls to, like, call me on my shit." Like, not everybody's afraid of me.

• 1:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right. Yeah, he's probably used to people constantly being afraid of him.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, "Oh, I can't fuck with him."

• 1:23Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, he does wild shit. Like, when he went down to fucking Mexico and met with El Chapo, like, Jesus Christ, dude. That's a fucking wild reckless thing to do.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  And I do think that that's organic, but I think that that's also, you just have that thing where you just go, "You know what? Shit's getting boring."

• 1:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:40Speaker 02

  "The weather's just too fucking nice here."

• 1:42Joe Rogan?

  "Weather's too nice, I'm too famous, let's go meet a mobster."

• 1:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. "Let's go fuck some shit up. Let's do something, let's do something big."

• 1:50Joe Rogan?

  Let's do something really reckless.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  "It's gonna resonate for at least a year."

• 1:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That whole El Chapo thing was so crazy, though, because that kind of is one of the things that got him caught.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  It was, right?

• 2:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, because they, you know, they track your cellphone data.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03Joe Rogan?

  And they know where you go. And if you're bringing your fucking cellphone, you're basically bringing a tracking device to, to go find one of the most notorious gangsters alive today.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  The most notor- I mean, who, who, who was the guy with the football team back in the day? Like, the-

• 2:18Joe Rogan?

  Pablo Escobar?

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Think about it. It's our days. This time's Pablo Escobar.

• 2:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  And Sean Penn.

• 2:26Joe Rogan?

  Cause then hangs out with him.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Who was Spicoli. Goes, you know what, man? Hey, who wants to come with me and find this motherfucker?

• 2:35Joe Rogan?

  Did he go solo?

• 2:36Speaker 02

  I don't, I think so.

• 2:37Joe Rogan?

  I think he went solo. Well, he knew that lady who was like a reporter. You know, there was like this really hot Mexican reporter.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, the Mexican girl, yeah.

• 2:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he knew her.

• 2:45Speaker 02

  Was he dating her?

• 2:47Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, but, uh, I think she had a thing with El Chapo.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  After that?

• 2:52Joe Rogan?

  No, like.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Did Shawn introduce them properly?

• 2:54Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I think he knew her and she knew him. She knew El Chapo.

• 2:58Speaker 02

  Oh, right. That's how he got, that was the connect.

• 3:01Joe Rogan?

  And El Chapo was like, I like the meat, Spicoli.

• 3:06Joe Rogan?

  I love you.

• 3:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I really enjoyed you in colors. And then the next thing you know.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  What's the most dangerous thing that you do now? What do you think?

• 3:16Joe Rogan?

  Dangerous thing?

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, like we're talking about Shawn going out on a limb. Do you find it necessary to go out and do things that like challenge you in a way?

• 3:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Challenge your psyche?

• 3:27Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  In what way?

• 3:28Joe Rogan?

  Uh, elk hunting is probably the most exciting.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  What is?

• 3:32Joe Rogan?

  Elk hunting.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Elk hunting. Why? Because it puts you in danger?

• 3:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, no, it's just really difficult. You know, you're bow hunting in the mountains.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:41Joe Rogan?

  And it's just you in the mountains and just fucking mountain lions and bears and shit.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Do you stay up there for days and days and days and do you quarter your, your kill?

• 3:48Joe Rogan?

  Pack it out, yeah.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  See, that's a different thing. You know, people say, I don't, I don't like hunt. Personally, I like, I grew up in a very red part of California. Everybody hunts that I grew up with. And I would shoot and I would hunt with my dad and I would like fucking think about it and dream about it for three weeks.

• 4:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I love it. I love it. I love eating it and I love hunting.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  No, no, no, I'm saying that I would like, I would spiral.

• 4:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you'd get negative with it?

• 4:11Speaker 02

  Not even, it was nega-, yeah, I guess it would be negative, but it would like made me think of like the kids that were going like, Mom? Mom, are you there? And I just killed the mother. It's like the Bambi kind of thing.

• 4:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  But I eat meat. So that hypocritical thing of like, I don't want to kill anything, but I want you to kill it for me so I can eat it because I really like the way it tastes.

• 4:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the anthrop-, anthropomorphization of animals that Disney has kind of done a number on people with, you know, like Bambi and Yogi Bear and all that kind of shit. Cartoons and teddy bears and we have a very, you know, living in, uh... When you live in urban areas and cities and people, you know, streets and concrete and people just get a very distorted idea of nature and our relationship with nature. And when you're a kid and you're just, these are sweet cute things and then all of a sudden you're supposed to go murder one. Like it's all fucked up. But it's, what's fucked up is the cartoons. I mean, they're cute and everything.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  Because they depict it in a way, how?

• 5:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just completely distorted. You have these animals that are talking to each other and the hunters are always assholes and like. If it wasn't for hunters, there would be no humans. We'd have never made it this far. If we were all just eating fucking tubers and grapes and shit, we would have never made it.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Do you like garbanzo beans?

• 5:32Joe Rogan?

  They're not bad. I don't prefer.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Have you ever hunted one?

• 5:35Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  It's fucking wild, man.

• 5:37Joe Rogan?

  How do you do that?

• 5:38Speaker 02

  You get, you take a bunch of acid.

• 5:39Joe Rogan?

  Italian restaurant?

• 5:40Speaker 02

  You take a bunch of acid.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  It's possible. Yeah, what, what about the sexual connotations of Disney? Like, you know, did you ever hear that thing that Disney, Walt Disney had like the biggest porn collection of all time?

• 5:54Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 5:54Speaker 02

  That's what I heard. I don't know how much of it is true.

• 5:57Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever seen how?

• 5:58Speaker 02

  There's like the Rod Stewart thing and there's the, you know what I mean?

• 6:01Joe Rogan?

  The Richard Gere thing, right.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  I don't know how much.

• 6:04Joe Rogan?

  Google it, Jamie. Did Walt Disney have a gigantic porn collection? I wouldn't be surprised. A lot of people that are like really into kids stuff and like sweet wholesome stuff they did.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Have that other kind of slant?

• 6:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they need something.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Or eventually flip?

• 6:18Joe Rogan?

  Maybe. Maybe it's a cover or maybe it's like they're so cutesy with the fucking completely wholesome stuff that they have to balance it out with some bonded shit.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Some fucked up shit.

• 6:31Joe Rogan?

  Some guys getting kicked in the nuts and ball gags.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Why is it that people feel that people in Hollywood and Texans are like that? Like I know people that have moved to Texas and they, and they've called me. There was one guy that I used to work out with in Venice. And he started, he moved here and he called me and he'd be like, "Hey man, you know, the list is coming out." And I'd go, "What list?" And he goes, "You know, the list."

• 6:52Joe Rogan?

  The list?

• 6:53Speaker 02

  And I go, "Am I on the list?"

• 6:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  And he goes, "No, you're clean, you're good, but I know you know who's on the li-" You. I'm glad I know I didn't do anything wrong, even though I didn't do anything wrong. And I said, "But why are you-" like a two-fold thing. Why are you under the impression that everybody in Hollywood lives under the same roof? Like, we all live in the same apartment complex?

• 7:15Joe Rogan?

  It's they.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  It's they.

• 7:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  It's they.

• 7:18Joe Rogan?

  They are out there.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  They're out there doing that thing.

• 7:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  And then, what would, why, how could you possibly think that, that a guy who's a trainer at Gold's and-

• 7:30Joe Rogan?

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• 9:00Joe Rogan?

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• 9:58Speaker 02

  Ennis would have the list. Why was he chosen?

• 10:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, he goes on Reddit. And that's how you get the list. That's how you get the list.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  I still am waiting for the list.

• 10:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  I think I'm gonna see him when I'm here. We started communicating again.

• 10:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, when you have things like the Epstein client list that doesn't get released, then it fuels these kind of conspiracy theories about there being a list.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  So why is that list not released?

• 10:21Joe Rogan?

  That's a very good question.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Who has that list?

• 10:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, for sure, someone has the list. Ghislaine Maxwell's in jail, right? So she must have talked. Like, there must have been conversations. And there must be a bunch of very powerful people that are on that list. And, you know...

• 10:35Speaker 02

  Are all the powerful people in cahoots? Was something that I learned, like when I played, when I played W. I played a senator.

• 10:44Joe Rogan?

  What was that like? What is it like playing a guy who's still alive? Did you meet with him or hang out with him at all?

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Scary. I mean, it, no, I wanted to.

• 10:52Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever meet him?

• 10:54Speaker 02

  No.

• 10:55Joe Rogan?

  God, that's weird, right?

• 10:56Speaker 02

  I had the opportunity to meet him afterwards. And, and there was something about him that was more... Remember when he was like giving candy to Michelle Obama and all that?

• 11:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  It was like a really friendly, kind of a mischievous thing. And I was like, I would like to meet him. And then I saw his paintings of his dogs, and I said, I don't want to meet him.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  I just don't like it was something attractive for a moment.

• 11:20Joe Rogan?

  What's about the paintings that got you?

• 11:22Speaker 02

  I don't know, and I love paintings. I don't know what it was, but.

• 11:25Joe Rogan?

  You didn't like the paintings?

• 11:26Speaker 02

  I, no, it's not that I didn't like the paintings.

• 11:28Joe Rogan?

  There's something in the paintings.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  There was, I don't know what it was, man.

• 11:31Joe Rogan?

  You know what something in the paintings is, I killed a million people with fake weapons of mass destruction. You know, there was, we had a fake story and I used that story to justify an invasion of a country. And now a million people are dead.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  So that's the question.

• 11:43Joe Rogan?

  And I'm haunted every night.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 11:45Joe Rogan?

  I just paint dogs.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  That are staring like that. Like your face right now is exactly how every eye is in his dog's paintings. It's so funny.

• 11:54Joe Rogan?

  That guy must be medicated. They must put him on some thing so he could sleep.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  Is that that look?

• 11:58Joe Rogan?

  I think, I don't.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  Does he put into his dog's eyes the look that he has always, or at least that he feels he has?

• 12:04Joe Rogan?

  Right, like there's a haunted.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  His lens?

• 12:06Joe Rogan?

  His real look behind his eyes, yeah.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  How he sees the world, how he's experiencing the world.

• 12:11Joe Rogan?

  What is it like running around knowing that you did that? Not just that you did that, but that there's no culpability. Like, no one went to jail for that. No one even got brought up on charges for that.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  Well, that's what I was bringing up because when I would meet these people, I would, you know, I went to the senate floor and I met a lot of these people. And then I met a lot of rich people, which is when I met Trump, actually, the 21 Club. Back when I knew a lot about him, I was fascinated by the whole.

• 12:36Joe Rogan?

  What's that 21 Club?

• 12:37Speaker 02

  21 Club is a place that he used to go a lot. And it was like, you know, yeah, you have a chance to meet this billionaire, this billionaire.

• 12:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, one of them places. Eyes wide shut type shit.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he, uh, what was I gonna say? Is he, oh, meeting these people, especially getting them drunk. You know, where people get super honest.

• 12:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  You know, where they go, you know, you know what, man? I trust you. I trust you. And you're like, here it comes, here it comes. Whereas before that, they were like, you know, I'm not sure. And I just, what I think is, you know, and then they finally go, I just fucked her, I fucked her. I, I, you know, and you're like, oh, or they tell you what's going on. But the thing that I learned, and I'm really curious about. Like what we were talking about Hollywood and the perception of them all being in it together, is, don't you think the rivalries and all that? Not entirely, but that all politicians are basically under the same roof. They all know what each other's doing. And that there's more of an agenda of power to keep the public. Thinking a certain way.

• 13:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  Not brainwashed.

• 13:42Joe Rogan?

  There's certainly a benefit to that.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Of course, there is.

• 13:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a benefit to that. And then there's also the the the underlying factor is money, of course. Like, there's so much money and influence. There's so many special interest groups. There's so many lobbyists.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  That's what I mean.

• 13:56Joe Rogan?

  So many massive corporations that are donating to campaigns. Yeah, so there's there's always going to be this desire to sort of. Color things in a certain light.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  Pacify.

• 14:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then treat you like you're a baby so they can continue making insane amounts of money. Like, if you're someone like Nancy Pelosi. And you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars and you make a hundred seventy thousand dollars a year, and there's no fucking explanation.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:21Joe Rogan?

  Like, just that alone. Like, you have to kind of keep people in the dark. You have to kind of like, keep dancing and.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:27Joe Rogan?

  Otherwise, you're going to jail. Like, someone's gonna start investigating, and they gotta go, hey, what you did is not legal. And you're gonna be in real trouble.

• 14:36Speaker 02

  How'd you what's your relationship like with money?

• 14:39Joe Rogan?

  In what way?

• 14:40Speaker 02

  Just in what you you made a certain amount of money for a long time.

• 14:43Joe Rogan?

  I don't think about it.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  You don't think about it?

• 14:45Joe Rogan?

  No, no. What I like about money is to not think about it. That's what I like.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  Do you like spending it?

• 14:49Joe Rogan?

  I like buying stuff.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Me, too.

• 14:51Joe Rogan?

  I have a nice car. Drove here. I drove a sixty nine Camaro.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  See, but that's different.

• 14:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I like that.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  That's fucking different. That's character.

• 14:58Joe Rogan?

  I like fun stuff, but.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Fun stuff.

• 15:00Joe Rogan?

  For the most part, I'm not interested in it, like, as a goal. You know, I just I what I like about money is not having to think about it. My friend Brian Callen said this to me once. He said. He goes, real freedom is when you can go to a restaurant and not worry about what anything costs. He's like, everything else is bullshit. And it really is. Everything else is bullshit. When you just go to a restaurant, get a nice steak, you know, order a bottle of wine, have a good time, and not think about the bill.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  What I think happens is is and be grateful for it.

• 15:29Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  And to remind yourself to be that that that's exists to be grateful for.

• 15:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  And not be taken advantage of. And I think that's one of the hardest things about money slash power. As you start treating things as if they're underneath you. You know, where you go, God, I'm so glad I can go anywhere in the world right now and get a meal. And I don't have to think about how am I going to pay for this?

• 15:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  Am I going to be in debt on my credit card? But when you start saying, excuse me.

• 15:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  I said, I said two hundred and four degrees, not one ninety.

• 16:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 16:02Speaker 02

  Read my lit, you know, and you're like.

• 16:04Joe Rogan?

  That's just gross.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  It is gross, but it happens.

• 16:07Joe Rogan?

  Taking, that's just taking advantage of this relationship that everyone knows. Where service people have to be nicer than they really would be normally, like a regular person. So people that.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Hoping for a tip, hoping for one of your many hundreds.

• 16:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's gross.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Thousands or hundreds of millions of dollars.

• 16:24Joe Rogan?

  It's disgusting. It's a gross way to treat people, but some people want to get rich so that they could do that to people. Maybe someone did it to them when they were younger and they're like, I can't wait to do this to other people.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  I mean, when you said nice car and you were like, I thought you were going to say, I was like, oh, please, no. Like Lamborghini.

• 16:40Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't have any of those.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  And then.

• 16:42Joe Rogan?

  No, I like muscle cars. I like old muscle cars. That's my favorite.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  That's like me at thirty seven knucklehead and people say, oh, is that an affectation? I know you're friends with Momo or whatever. I go, no, man, I've been riding motorcycles since I was three and a half years old.

• 16:54Joe Rogan?

  They're fun.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  They're not only fun, there's something on us. If you read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, which is the only book that's ever been written that's kind of gets close to the kind of spiritual place. If you're a true motorcyclist, whether you're riding with your son or whether you're riding with a grid of guys or whatever. That beautiful thunderous hum. When you're in it, when you're in a group of guys who really know what they're doing and you're in absolute fucking sync.

• 17:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  Yes, your arms are up here and your arms are pretty numb at that point, but you're fucking soaring. You're an eagle on a fucking jet stream.

• 17:30Joe Rogan?

  You ever heard Hunter S. Thompson in, you know, that documentary they did, Gonzo?

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:35Joe Rogan?

  Like that, that in the documentary, the very beginning, he talks about riding a motorcycle.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't remember that.

• 17:42Joe Rogan?

  Coast highway.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  I don't remember that.

• 17:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's fucking great. See if you can find that. He, he talks about riding a motorcycle, how about like that the, the, the lines begin to blur.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:52Joe Rogan?

  And you're just, you're just on the edge and how alive you are. It's a fucking fantastic speech.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  We don't have to get into this book right away, but there was, I wrote, they came to me, it's the only story that I wrote that somebody asked me to write for the book. And they were like, well, you're really into motorcycles, why don't you write a story about motorcycles? And I tried and it was just bad and bad and everything I wrote was like so forced and bullshit. And finally I said, I can't do it, I'm not gonna write it. And the minute I said, I'm not gonna do this, I started writing. It just kinda started to come out and it's good.

• 18:22Joe Rogan?

  Do you write by hand?

• 18:23Speaker 02

  I do.

• 18:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Mostly.

• 18:24Joe Rogan?

  Do you feel more of a connection when you write by hand?

• 18:26Speaker 02

  No, that's not why I do it.

• 18:27Joe Rogan?

  Y'all like to type?

• 18:27Speaker 02

  I'll write any which way, whether it's on the phone, whether, you know, I remember people saying like, I write, you know, by hand, I handwrite because it's, it's the way it used to be. And I was like, yeah, it also used to be under candlelight, which fucked your eyes out.

• 18:41Joe Rogan?

  Also be, used to be people had slaves.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:43Joe Rogan?

  Also, you can only get around by horse.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  Paint on caves and shit. Why don't you go paint on a cave, tell me a story, try to get it published.

• 18:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, get a witch doctor to take care of your broken leg.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  I don't care how it comes out. I think real writing is anywhere, anytime, however you can get it out. I don't think there's a muse that's needed. I think it's work, man.

• 19:01Joe Rogan?

  It is work. I think the muse is like, it, it's, it's a concept, right? Have you ever read Pressfield's The War of Art?

• 19:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 19:09Joe Rogan?

  Great book.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  Great book.

• 19:10Joe Rogan?

  I think he's right though, when he says you summon the muse when you sit down to work. But that's also just like an intention thing. Like you have so much time and effort put on a thing and when you do that, your mind gets more in sync with creativity.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:24Joe Rogan?

  But if you treat it like it's a muse, it actually does work.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 19:27Joe Rogan?

  Like if you show up every day and like say,

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Click into that thing.

• 19:32Joe Rogan?

  Pay respect to the muse. I'm sitting here and I'm ready to write and I'm a professional and I'm ready to go.

• 19:37Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 19:38Joe Rogan?

  And treat it like you're summoning the muse. It actually works. There actually is an effect that happens. I don't know if there's an actual muse, but you can understand why someone would think that there's a muse because that-

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, but why do people chant? Why do people meditate? Why do people that? That's the muse. Whatever the muse is, it's like talking about God. What's God? I don't know. It depends on who you're talking to.

• 19:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  God is a feeling. That is something that, that fucking thing that keeps you inspired, that keeps the gasoline at a high octane.

• 20:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's something that-

• 20:08Speaker 02

  That's how I see it.

• 20:09Joe Rogan?

  It's something that gets you away from your ego, like with writing, something that gets you away from your ego and into your mind, into your consciousness, into like your, your perceptions of things, your ability to express it. And it's such a stuff, it's a focus thing, and the more you focus on it, the more that muscle grows, the more you get adapted to it.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Because your ego is worried about how people are gonna perceive you.

• 20:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  And that's not right.

• 20:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  You're writing for somebody else.

• 20:33Joe Rogan?

  You wanna look cool.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  You wanna look cool, people are like, "Fuck."

• 20:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  "I read that book that you wrote, man, holy shit. I had no idea, you're amazing."

• 20:41Joe Rogan?

  That's the grossest conversation ever. Cocktail party in Hollywood, some guy comes up to you and tells you you're amazing. You are a genius.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  I had, and it's always with those eyes.

• 20:50Joe Rogan?

  You're so incredible.

• 20:51Speaker 02

  "I had no idea."

• 20:51Joe Rogan?

  Meanwhile, that guy's trying to sell you on some multi-level marketing scheme or something. There's something he's trying to tap into you with.

• 20:58Speaker 02

  "I wanna buy that book, I wanna option your book, I wanna turn it into a fucking movie."

• 21:02Joe Rogan?

  "I also have a script I'd love you to see."

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. What's it, is it a Disney? Is it about, is it about animals talking?

• 21:09Joe Rogan?

  That's the one thing I really love about living in Texas, is there's no Hollywood, there's no show business. I don't have to deal with any of these people with like alternative agendas.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  We just moved to San, we just, I wanna go back to that, but we just moved to Santa Barbara.

• 21:22Joe Rogan?

  Santa Barbara's awesome.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Santa Bar, it's funny.

• 21:25Joe Rogan?

  I love it out there.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Why does everybody fucking think that? It is awesome.

• 21:27Joe Rogan?

  Montecito, I love it out there.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Why?

• 21:29Joe Rogan?

  So pretty, cuz it's beautiful.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Cuz it's beautiful. What about the people?

• 21:32Joe Rogan?

  Uh...

• 21:34Speaker 02

  I'm not, I'm not-

• 21:35Joe Rogan?

  They're a little elitist, there's a lot of elitist people out there.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Okay, so that's a perfect place for me, so I grew up in Santa Barbara. I was in Paso Robles, which is ranch country, about two hours above Santa Barbara. And then we moved to Santa Barbara when I was 11, and it was Montecito, but it was a very different Montecito, like yes, there were a couple of rich people, yes, my dad was doing okay by then, he had done Marcus Welby, he did, uh, at that time, he did Amityville Horror, so he had a little bit of money, but we bought, you know, what would now be a thirty-five million dollar home in Montecito.

• 22:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  He bought for six hundred thousand dollars.

• 22:09Joe Rogan?

  Uh.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Same fucking house.

• 22:10Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? So it was a different Montecito, and then whatever, you know, group I, I grew up with. But I went to, the point is, I went to jail there a lot. I just did. I just liked it. Instead of the museum, I went to jail. I was like, no, mom, I'm gonna go to jail today. And then, so in LA, Venice Beach, I love Venice Beach, but Venice Beach has even changed. You know, you used to know everybody and everybody kind of coexisted beautifully. And then Venice Beach changed. It got totally randomly violent.

• 22:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it became very dangerous.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Very dangerous. Little kids. Okay, so we moved to Malibu. We're close to Laird. I know Laird and Gabby and all that thing. But it never landed. So we were always talking about moving, even though we were kind of building the house and we're finalizing everything. We're always talking. We talk about Texas. My mom's from Texas. We were talking about East Coast. We were talking about Europe, all these places, but never Santa Barbara. I would never move back to Santa Barbara. Because by the way, honey, if we move to Santa Barbara, which you love so much and you think is so beautiful, our little girls will eventually, for sure, go to prison. That was in my mind.

• 23:21Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Because in my mind, I had built totally.

• 23:24Joe Rogan?

  Huh.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Most of my friends that grew up in Montecito are dead. Like thirty-six out of fifty.

• 23:29Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, they all died.

• 23:31Joe Rogan?

  From what?

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Heroin epidemic, punk rock.

• 23:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Driving accidents.

• 23:36Joe Rogan?

  Thirty-six out of fifty?

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Out of fifty.

• 23:38Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  Best friend, Jason Sears, who was the lead singer of Rich Kids on LSD, RKL, which was a big punk band that influenced a bunch of people. Nirvana, you know, Pearl Jam, all these people.

• 23:49Joe Rogan?

  Rich Kids on LSD is a great name for a band.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Look it up. Can you look it up? Jason Sears, Rich Kids on LSD. We got a tattoo at the same time. I got a tattoo from Freddie Nigretti that's gone now because I removed it. But it was a big Jesus with blood coming out of the hands. And Jason, that same night, got, the same night, got eat shit on his ass. See if you can find Jason's ass that says eat shit on it. Wow. You're gonna put that in? Jason Sears, eat shit. Yeah. Where is it? Oh, you gotta just keep looking. Yeah, it'll be there. So, why was I, oh, so eventually,

• 24:29Speaker 02

  when we finally said, "Look, we're not moving, we should be grateful, we're not grateful enough." That's the problem. We're not grateful enough, but Malibu just didn't kind of sit. And then one day I'm lying on the bed.

• 24:38Joe Rogan?

  What didn't you like about Malibu?

• 24:40Speaker 02

  I love Malibu, it's just remote. You know, like, we already are remote in Paso Robles. We have a place in Paso Robles, a place where I grew up, not the ranch where I grew up, it's about three miles down the road, but that's remote, and a remote that I love. I love remote, but I love extremes. I don't wanna be sort of next to Santa Monica, and it's twenty miles away and it takes two and a half hours to get there.

• 25:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  You and I were talking about that. I don't wanna sit in traffic for half my life.

• 25:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  I just don't want to. If I'm gonna be somewhere, I wanna be somewhere. So, Santa Barbara represented a place where you kind of had your own piece of property, but everything was ten minutes away. You got dance class for the girls, you got soccer, you got this.

• 25:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  You know, you know what I mean?

• 25:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  So, that was the thing, but, but never, I would, never was I gonna go back to Santa Barbara. I finally put on Zillow, Santa Barbara, one house came up, and that's the house that we bought, and it was Joe Walsh's old house.

• 25:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow!

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Which is amazing.

• 25:33Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Incredible.

• 25:35Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  And I asked him. Anyway, I have to finish the story, is that I was so freaked out about moving up to Santa Barbara. I still hadn't made the kind of transition that I contracted a mild case to a Bell's palsy.

• 25:50Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 25:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, literally was stressing out, my wife was like, "You gotta," and I'm not a stress guy, and she was like, "You gotta mellow the fuck out." I'm like, "Yeah, but you don't know what's gonna happen when we move up here." It's like, it's gonna be-

• 26:00Joe Rogan?

  So, your face started like sagging?

• 26:02Speaker 02

  So, literally, I'm washing my face, and I'm doing this, and it just started going, "Brrr."

• 26:08Joe Rogan?

  Wait, when was this?

• 26:11Speaker 02

  Four months ago.

• 26:11Joe Rogan?

  Okay, that's a side effect of the vaccine, too. It's one of the side effects of COVID-19 vaccines.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  I've also heard that speech impediments have also, I've heard a lot of things, kids taking vaccines and things happening.

• 26:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:25Joe Rogan?

  That vaccine in particular.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  That one.

• 26:27Joe Rogan?

  The mRNA one.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know quite a few people that developed Bell's palsy from them, well, whatever you want to call it.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Are you serious?

• 26:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, facial paralysis, yeah. I know two people specifically that developed facial, like, droopy face.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  Because when my older kids.

• 26:42Joe Rogan?

  It went away.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  When my older kids were young, there were what, seventeen vaccinations? And now that my younger kids are young, there's fifty six.

• 26:51Joe Rogan?

  Seventy-two.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a series of them, but it's ultimately seventy-two shots.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's a scary prospect, man.

• 26:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, the fucked up thing is, if you talk about it, you're an anti-vaxer and you're a conspiracy theorist. But that's a big one, because they've done a really good job of demonizing anyone who questions a medicine that might be correlated with a bunch of fucking serious diseases.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 27:15Joe Rogan?

  And for whatever reason.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  Profit.

• 27:17Joe Rogan?

  They've, yeah, they've just done a great job of gaslighting people.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:20Joe Rogan?

  And scaring the shit out of people by labeling anybody who did, like, look what they did to Jenny McCarthy. Do you remember when Jenny McCarthy had a kid and her kid had autism and she thought that autism had possibly come from vaccines and they basically ran her out of Hollywood?

• 27:34Speaker 02

  But why would they do that? What's the reason?

• 27:36Joe Rogan?

  Money.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  What do they benefit?

• 27:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, well, the thing is.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  For money.

• 27:39Joe Rogan?

  During the Reagan administration, they, the vaccine companies, pharmaceutical drug companies that are making vaccines, they said, "We are unable to make these vaccines if we're liable." Because if we're liable, there's too many lawsuits are going to come our way, because vaccines cannot be completely safe and effective, just by virtue of the mechanism in which they work. You know, you have an irritant, you have this, this, this virus, this dead virus. Your body sees the aluminum or whatever it is, it reacts to that in a negative way and it finds the dead virus. It develops antibody. It's just by the way they work.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:21Joe Rogan?

  When you vaccinate a enormous amount of people, you're gonna have a certain amount of people that have a negative reaction. If we have lawsuits for every person that has a negative reaction, we're gonna go out of business.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:31Joe Rogan?

  So they made them immune. They made them immune. And you know what happened? Immediately, they're like, well, you need a vaccine for this. And you need to go vaccine that.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Knowing that there was no drawback.

• 28:39Joe Rogan?

  Hepatitis B vaccines.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:41Joe Rogan?

  Babies.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Right when you're born.

• 28:43Joe Rogan?

  Right when you're born.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  Right when you're born.

• 28:44Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's also doctors that say it doesn't even really work for babies. But what you're doing is you're conditioning the parents to accept the fact that your child is gonna get regularly vaccinated.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:56Joe Rogan?

  I mean, my doctor, fortunately, our pediatrician wanted to put the kids on a, uh, a different schedule. A slower schedule. And he didn't want them to have any vaccines until they were two.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Your doctor in California?

• 29:08Joe Rogan?

  Yes. And he, but it was not like a quack. He was like, I think the way to do it, I mean, you have, there's a, a schedule of vaccines your kids have to get unless you have religious exemption.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  But let's not assault your children with a potential poison because everybody is different. If I take a bong hit, I might end up under the table. If you take a bong hit, you actually may feel smarter and clearer. I remember Dean Potter, who was a climber, and he was like, I stopped smoking pot for four months. But when I started smoking pot, I could feel the hold at two thousand feet.

• 29:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Sheer cliff. Nothing underneath, no ropes, but I felt more confident. And for me, I go, if I took a bong head up there, I could be four feet up and be freaking out.

• 29:53Joe Rogan?

  Right. It's different for everybody.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Cause everybody has different brains. It's like psychopharmaceuticals.

• 29:58Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  Let's just give them all lithium, or let's give them all that. You have to experiment. The, the idea of experimenting with that shit is super scary.

• 30:06Joe Rogan?

  It is. It is super scary. And it's also super scary when you're not liable for any of the repercussions. And you're just pushing it on people because you're a corporation. And corporations just wanna make money. Their, their thing is just unlimited growth. They just have a, they have an obligation, their shareholders, every quarter, they wanna make more money and they just keep ramping it up.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:28Joe Rogan?

  Like, we're doing really well this year.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Seinfeld talking about that. He was like, I remember back in the seventies in comedy. You know, green rooms and all that, and we'd all be fucking with each other. And it had never had anything to do with money, because nobody was really making money. Like, money, money. Like, tons of money. It was just about, what set are you gonna do? What are you trying out?

• 30:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  Are you gonna fail, or are you not gonna fail? You know, but it was this community, again, and I think that things have grown into, not that I wanted to talk about this, or that I even thought about it before, but, the money thing is a very interesting thing to me, you know? And if you want to take it back to the book, which we can talk about later.

• 31:04Joe Rogan?

  No, I mean, money is a-

• 31:05Speaker 02

  It's like the anti-celebrity, it's like, how do you stay grounded?

• 31:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  How do you stay accountable? And why would you stay accountable? Because I actually give a fuck about people, instead of just being in it for myself.

• 31:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  And I think that's the difference.

• 31:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think one of the things that happens to people with money is, you didn't have money when you were young, now all of a sudden you have money, and you get really scared about losing that money.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Somebody else is gonna take it away.

• 31:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you get scared it's gonna go away, because now you realize, oh my god, it's so much better not to have to worry about your bills, and so much better to have some money to buy things.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally.

• 31:36Joe Rogan?

  And then you start thinking only about money, and you start making decisions only for money. And then you go down the weird road. And it, you know, really distorts artists. It fucks a lot of people up. You know, you see it in a lot of bands, they start making like poppy songs, when they used to be like raw and gritty when they were younger, they used to be, it used to be like authentic, and then all of a sudden they're making like theme songs for films. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Look, it's good to prepare for the future, but when you start over-analyzing what's happening around you, dreaming up every hypothetical situation of what could happen, that's when it gets dangerous. You can start to hyper-fixate and stress out, and all over things that haven't even happened.

• 32:20Joe Rogan?

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• 32:48Joe Rogan?

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• 33:30Joe Rogan?

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• 34:11Joe Rogan?

  It's like weird fucking romance songs. Like Aerosmith went through a bunch of that shit. Where to me, as an Aerosmith lover as a kid, to see them go from like Dream On to like the shit they were.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  And I wonder with like drug addiction and all that, I wonder if it's like if the parallel is I went back to heroin at that point because I just couldn't fucking deal. Do you know what I mean?

• 34:35Joe Rogan?

  I think it's when they get off heroin and they start wanting to make money. I need to make some money. I spent all my fucking money.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  But look, I wonder if there's any connection like with remember Philip Seymour Hoffman, like one of the greatest actors that ever lived. And I've known his mother since I was doing theater in Rochester, New York. As like a twenty year old, twenty one year old, and she would come up to me, she'd say, I think you're a fine actor. And I'd go, oh, thank you very much. And she goes, you know, my son just moved to New York, he like, he's, he wants to be an actor. And I said, oh, yeah, what's his name? Phil. Phil's his name. Oh, well, tell Phil good luck. Good luck to Phil in that, you know, it's like every, anybody who wants to be an actor, just

• 35:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  The odds of it happening is just not gonna happen. And then Phil became this guy. Twenty two years of sobriety. Who had an inkling in the beginning and said, you know what? I don't want this to control like my thing. So I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna give everything I am to acting and I'm gonna try to make the best career, theater career, movie career, whatever. And then, you know, and I, again, I have it in the book where I see him on the street and I'm crazy and I've gotten into a fight with my wife and I'm walking down Columbus Avenue and I have cords on, I have no shoes, I have no shirt. On my way, I'm out of my fucking head and I look to my left and I see Nick Nolte at a cafe.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  And we lock eyes and I've never met Nick Nolte, I've never seen him and it will happen that I actually will have a relationship with him later on. But we lock eyes and the moment is he's seeing in me what he used to be or seeing in me what I'm to become. I'm seeing in him what I'm to become later, right?

• 36:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Then I see Philip Seymour Hoffman. Who's standing there talking, I go, hey, Phil. It's Josh. What's up? You're doing so well, man, fuck, good for you, dude.

• 36:25Joe Rogan?

  No shirt.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  No shirt, no shoes. And he's standing there with one foot pointed toward me and another foot pointed in the direction that he wants to go. You know how people stand there and they're like, good to see you, man.

• 36:36Joe Rogan?

  Get the fuck out of here.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, good. Good.

• 36:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  Now, how is that the guy? That died of a heroin overdose?

• 36:45Joe Rogan?

  Did he get injured?

• 36:47Speaker 02

  No.

• 36:48Joe Rogan?

  No? He just got back on it? Cause sometimes it what happens is, uh, people get injured.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  I know, and they have surgery and then they have back and then they get on, you know, oxycontin, me too. I know a lot of people that that's kind of been the trajectory.

• 37:01Joe Rogan?

  No back pain, nothing?

• 37:02Speaker 02

  To me, there's another parallel and the parallel is, I just wanna make money. Finally, I'm sick of doing independence, I'm sick of doing this and not making any money. And then you start doing, you know, whatever he was Hunger Games or.

• 37:14Joe Rogan?

  And then you feel hollow. And then you wanna fill yourself.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  We were talking about before.

• 37:18Joe Rogan?

  Right, you wanna numb yourself up because you feel like a whore.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  You feel like a whore.

• 37:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:22Speaker 02

  It's like, there's one thing about like actually finding solace and saying, hey, man, I'm older. I'm gonna do this movie, I get it, I would like, you know, I got college coming up for my kids. And you justify it in a way that's okay. And then there's one thing about you've identified yourself so much as an artist. That to release yourself from that identity in other people's minds, again, going back to the ego. That you just fucks you up.

• 37:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  You just can't deal.

• 37:47Joe Rogan?

  And then you wanna escape from your reality.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 37:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you wanna numb yourself.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, that is a real fucking thing, man. And if you've ever done a project. Where it's like really aw- I did a really bad sitcom once. And, uh, I remember.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  You acted in?

• 38:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was terrible. And I remember while I was doing it, I was just imagining like, what if this is my life? What if this stupid piece of shit sitcom goes for like ten years?

• 38:10Speaker 02

  Ten years, yeah.

• 38:11Joe Rogan?

  And I have to keep you, because there's sitcoms that inexplicably are very successful or were in the nineties.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:16Joe Rogan?

  And very successful and they were terrible.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  Terrible.

• 38:19Joe Rogan?

  They're terrible.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  But people loved them.

• 38:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, people wanna be numb.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  It's like eating ice cream.

• 38:23Joe Rogan?

  They just wanna slack jaw, sit in front of the computer or whatever, the TV and eat SpaghettiOs. Just fucking numb themselves to some mundane bullshit. And if you're doing that kind of a thing, you live in hell.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:35Joe Rogan?

  And a lot of those people that do those things, they wind up doing drugs. Cause they just feel very lost.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  If you do that and you're doing, you live in hell.

• 38:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you live in hell.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  Which it is.

• 38:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  To me, to you.

• 38:45Joe Rogan?

  It sounds crazy to a person listening. Oh, you're making fifty thousand dollars a week, how you living? You're living in hell. Like, what are you talking about?

• 38:52Speaker 02

  No, no, no, that's not the point.

• 38:53Joe Rogan?

  Most people would be like, that's great, that would be amazing. But if you wanna do a thing. Like you wanna be a great comic, or you wanna be a great actor, and you're doing some-

• 39:00Speaker 02

  You have to have incentives.

• 39:01Joe Rogan?

  Right. You have to have, you wanna, you have to wanna create something really good.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:05Joe Rogan?

  And when you can't create something really good, and you're just doing it for money, you feel trapped, and you feel like shit, and then you have to reward yourself for this stupid fucking thing you do.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:13Joe Rogan?

  So what do you do? You go out and buy a nice Mercedes, you get a fucking house in Malibu, now you have a large monthly nut that you have to cover, but when you take people over to your house, like, look how I'm living. Look at this ocean view, come on.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  How much of this house do you use? Nothing.

• 39:27Joe Rogan?

  Almost nothing. I always say to my friends, my, my young comic friends that are coming up, your house is just your house. I, I remember when I first got a nice apartment, when I moved to North Hollywood in nineteen ninety-four, I got a loft apartment, and a pool table in it, and a nice stereo, and I was like, this is incredible. I have a nice apartment, this is amazing. And then after a while, it just became my house, became where I live, and I realized at that moment, like, oh, this is, oh, it's all the same feeling. Like, all you need in a house is it to be comfortable.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:58Joe Rogan?

  You need a TV in the kitchen, and a couch and a bed.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  It's supposed, it's, it's the place that you sleep.

• 40:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a place where you relax.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Where you live your, the entirety of your life.

• 40:06Joe Rogan?

  You can relax almost anywhere that's comfortable and safe. That's all you need, and then everything else is kinda bullshit.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:13Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of, the things that you get for your money, it's like, there's a lot of things that people spend a lot of money on, and they're not really worth it. You don't really get anything out of it.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  That's why it was interesting walking in here, and, you know, man cave, I hate that fucking term, man cave, man cave. You know, it's like gay cave, you know.

• 40:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's man cave because no woman would ever let me decorate this place this way.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  But it's not that no woman wouldn't like it. I think there's, there's some-

• 40:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, my wife likes it when she comes here, she just doesn't wanna live in it.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  She doesn't wanna live, do you wanna live in it?

• 40:44Joe Rogan?

  No, I wouldn't wanna live here.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Well, there you go.

• 40:45Joe Rogan?

  But I might, if I was like a single guy, I might decorate my house like this.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  But it's things, the point is, is that there's things, when I walked in here, it made me smile because I started seeing things that inspire, and you like to surround yourself, like, if somebody comes in and does an interior design of your office.

• 41:01Joe Rogan?

  Ugh.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Ugh.

• 41:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Ugh. And they go, we brought in this amazing fabric from Paris. And you go, but I don't like it. And I remember when we were doing our house, we were like, I said, look, man, you can get things from Target. I don't want to feel that people have to take, I don't want anybody to feel that they have to take their shoes off. That's what I don't, I want them to feel that they can scuff up the floor.

• 41:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  Because that's the mark that they made when they walked in my house. And maybe I don't even like the scuff. I don't like that they walked so heavy.

• 41:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  But it's their mark. We are leaving our mark.

• 41:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  So I said.

• 41:36Joe Rogan?

  That's how I feel about this table. I saw this table with all these stains on it.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Seriously, it's good, it has character.

• 41:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's alive.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  And that's the thing is like when we built our, the ranch, I said, there were shelves, I said, I want linoleum, or what is it, famica? Linoleum on the shelves. And we have 150 year old barn wood, but along with linoleum. Cause linoleum reminds me of like trailer parks and shit. It just makes me fucking smile. So I saw this thing when I walked in. Because I have one. And that is Ralph Stedman's print that you.

• 42:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  And here's the story. So Ralph Stedman, Johnny Depp gave me Ralph Stedman's number. Cause he was close with Hunter. And my son was graduating, my son's an artist and he was obsessed with Stedman, right? And I called Ralph Stedman, he's hello. And I said, hey, I said, listen, you don't know me, I'm a friend of Johnny's and this. I said, you know, my son's graduating and like the greatest gift I could ever get him. And this is not just to throw Stedman under the bus because it comes full circle. But he says, I said, my son's graduating. Can you do like a little thing, I'll pay you for it. Can you do, just draw a little thing for him? For his graduation. There was a long, long pause and he goes, why the fuck would I do that?

• 42:51Speaker 02

  And so that conversation went nowhere. I was like, what the fuck? What an asshole. And then 20 years went past and my book is designed by one of his proteges.

• 43:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  And then, so Joey Feldman, he called me one day and he said, He said Ralph wants to send you a print. And I said, no way. Does he know? Or that we have like a history? And he said, no, I don't think so. So I sent him a voice memo of the history and I said, I never held it against you. I totally understand it, especially to somebody. So he sent me one for my son and one for me. And I have it hanging up in my house.

• 43:29Joe Rogan?

  That's cool.

• 43:30Speaker 02

  I love having that thing, man.

• 43:31Joe Rogan?

  He was an interesting artist.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  He is an interesting artist.

• 43:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I should say, he is. But I mean, the, the stuff that he did, it's like, that's also in that Gonzo documentary where it talks about how Hunter gave him acid and mushrooms and he just started fucking writing, drawing like really crazy shit. And like, um, the thing for, do you remember the thing he did for, um, the, the Kentucky Derby is decadent and depraved?

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was like the first thing, wasn't it?

• 43:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:57Speaker 02

  I think that was how they got together.

• 43:58Joe Rogan?

  See, we can find that. The Kentucky Derby is decadent and depraved.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's a really good article, actually. Whoa, that was fast, dude.

• 44:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:07Speaker 02

  Um, but look at that.

• 44:08Joe Rogan?

  That article is fucking amazing.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  It's amazing article.

• 44:11Joe Rogan?

  It's one of my favorite Hunter pieces.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  And I don't think that they spent a lot of time together, but I think.

• 44:15Joe Rogan?

  Hunter and him?

• 44:16Speaker 02

  No, I don't.

• 44:17Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of it in the documentary where they're hanging out together.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Really?

• 44:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he picks him up at the airport in his VW Bug.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  No, I know it exists, but I don't think that they spent the amount of time that you would think, given that they collaborated so much. I think Ralph was back in Britain and Hunter was. I know, look at that. Look at that. See, that's the kind of shit, do you miss that? Like, as part of driving your car and all that?

• 44:42Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing from the, put your headphones on for a second.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:48Speaker 03

  Take the thing out for an honest run down the coast. I would start in Golden Gate Park, thinking only to run a few long curves to clear my head.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Ah, it's so good.

• 45:03Speaker 03

  A wavering alcoholic off the whack, but in a matter of minutes, I'd be out at the beach with the sound of the engine in my ears. Surf booming up on the seawall and a fine empty road stretching all the way down to Santa Cruz. There was no helmet on those nights, no speed limit, and no cooling it down around the curves.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  I love seeing the sand in the road.

• 45:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 45:29Speaker 03

  Then into second gear, forgetting the cars and letting the beast wind out. Thirty-five, forty-five. Then into third, not worried about green or red signals, but only some other werewolf floating. Now there's no sound except the wind.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  The needle leans down on a hundred. A wind-burned eyeball strained to see down the center line. No room at all for mistakes.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 45:56Speaker 03

  And that's when the strange music starts.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 46:08Speaker 03

  The Edge. There is no honest way to explain it, because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. The others, the living, are those who pushed their control as far as they felt they could handle it, and then pulled back or slowed down.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  But the Edge is still out there.

• 46:35Joe Rogan?

  That guy was fucking amazing.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  It's great. It was great. It was fucking amazing. What do you love about his writing? And what type, like Fear and Loathing?

• 46:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, I was just reading Hell's Angels recently, actually.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  That's the book that I go back to most.

• 46:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, that's really him when he was starting, right? That was the beginning of the sort of gonzo journalism stuff, because he was kind of mixing in fiction with reality. That's one of the things that pissed off the Hell's Angels, is that he took a lot of liberties with the truth to try to, like, paint a picture.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Right. Which was his deal, which was his style later on, is like exaggerating and kind of romancing his own life.

• 47:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, he was out of his fucking mind.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Out of his mind, but he was also one of the most brilliant technical writers that ever was. And that's what, that's what's forgotten. Like, even people talk about Kerouac, and Kerouac was like, you know, he wrote on the road, and he was on the road, and it was Hunter S. Thompson type of thing. And you're like, you know, he edited On the Road for seven years.

• 47:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  And nobody knows that because Kerouac kind of like, uh, you know, he put forth this thing of like, first thought, best thought, don't edit, don't, it was again, a whole, like, it's total horseshit.

• 47:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  That's why I say it goes back to writers, it's a labor.

• 47:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  You sit down and you write all the fucking time.

• 47:57Joe Rogan?

  My friend Ari on his, uh, laptop, he's got a little piece of paper above the keyboard that says the first draft of everything is shit.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  That's, and it's true. It's Hemingway.

• 48:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Hemingway wrote that, yeah.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  You know, his first book, Hemingway's first book was lost by his wife?

• 48:11Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:12Joe Rogan?

  She lost it?

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, she, she grabbed it for him and was on a train and then she went to the bathroom and actually left the satchel on the seat and when she came out of the bathroom, it was gone.

• 48:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  Never to be found again.

• 48:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, can you imagine?

• 48:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  All that work.

• 48:28Joe Rogan?

  Did that marriage work out?

• 48:29Speaker 02

  I don't think so.

• 48:30Joe Rogan?

  I bet you did it on purpose, that bitch.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  I bet she did it on purpose, that bitch. Yeah, man.

• 48:40Joe Rogan?

  I love writing. I love when someone's a really good writer because you just get these like moments where you're like, yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's it.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:50Joe Rogan?

  You know, these moment, Hunter had a lot of those moments where you're like, God damn it, that's good.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  You have so many people who were great young and I know that there's a danger and a chaos within like the vortex within which they lived. But it couldn't survive. Do you know what I mean? When Hunter got, he was just too fucking alcoholic.

• 49:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  And, and Dylan Thomas became too fucking alcoholic. And it's one of those things that you go, you were literally writing things that aren't possible. You were putting together like wordsmithing things that are, that-

• 49:24Joe Rogan?

  Magic.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  Magic.

• 49:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  How he was describing, it's that thing, whatever it is you're doing, how do you get to that place which most people can't touch?

• 49:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, you can't neglect your physical health. That's the problem is that in this chase for the muse and this dance you do with the drugs and the alcohol and the wild writing and- You know, I'm sure you've seen Hunter S. Thompson's, there's a thing that a reporter, he hung out with Hunter S. Thompson and detailed what a day in the life of Hunter S. Thompson is.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  What, who was it?

• 49:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a band called Bearded Man, and Bearded Man took me and Greg Fitzsimmons reading off Hunter S. Thompson's routine, his daily routine before he writes,

• 50:10Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 50:10Joe Rogan?

  and made a song out of it. It's fucking incredible.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:13Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find that. Because the routine was so insane, and this was like really what he would do. He would wake up like

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Like a discipline?

• 50:21Joe Rogan?

  2:00 in the afternoon. No!

• 50:22Speaker 02

  No.

• 50:23Joe Rogan?

  Chaos!

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Okay, great.

• 50:24Joe Rogan?

  Full-on chaos. Here, let's put the headphones back on.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Bearded Man.

• 50:36Joe Rogan?

  3:00 PM, rise. Chivas Regal with morning papers.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  Is that you?

• 50:40Joe Rogan?

  3:45, cocaine. Another glass of Chivas, another Dunhill. 4:05, PM, by the way, first cup of coffee and a Dunhill. 4:15, cocaine. Another Dunhill. 4:30, cocaine. Cocaine.

• 50:57Joe Rogan?

  Coffee, Dunhills.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  Ah!

• 51:02Joe Rogan?

  6 o'clock, smoking grass, take the edge off the day. At 7:00 PM, three hours into it, three hours in, lit. 7:00 PM, lunch. Margaritas,

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Lunch.

• 51:14Joe Rogan?

  Taco salad, dunnug brains, carrot cake, deep fryer, and cocaine.

• 51:24Joe Rogan?

  Okay, 9:00 PM, start snorting cocaine seriously.

• 51:30Joe Rogan?

  Dross acid. 11:00 PM, I don't know what that is, cocaine and grass. Cocaine, et cetera, et cetera. 12:00, midnight. Hunter S. Thompson is ready to write.

• 51:45Joe Rogan?

  So this is like a electronic dance music song that plays in clubs sometimes.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  Um, super funny. When'd you do that?

• 52:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it was a long time ago. Many years ago.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  Did you ever live like that?

• 52:08Joe Rogan?

  No, no, I've never even done coke.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 52:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've never fucked around with coke. I like psychedelics. I like weed. Uh, I like a little alcohol every now and then, but I don't fuck around with anything that's gonna kill me. I'm not interested.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:22Joe Rogan?

  And I'm not interested in anything that helps my ego, that boosts it up, makes me, uh, fearless.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  That bloats it?

• 52:27Joe Rogan?

  I'm not interested in any of that. I, I like things that make me scared. I like things that make me nervous, like.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  That's what I was talking about early on. What do you?

• 52:35Joe Rogan?

  I like to feel vulnerable. I like it.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  You like to challenge yourself?

• 52:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  In your perception and how you perceive certain things?

• 52:43Joe Rogan?

  I think, uh, I like voluntary adversity. Uh, physical voluntary adversity, but also I think mental voluntary adversity, and I think that's what I like about like psychedelics. I think there's like a, you have to go on like a journey and you can't control it. It's, you, it takes you somewhere. And then when you're back, you realize like, you ain't shit. Just get all that ego stuff out of your system, relax and just be appreciative and enjoy life and try to spread as much positivity as you can. That's what you're here for. Do your best at everything you do. That's what you're here for.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  And how do you find yourself doing that once you're not on it? The incorporation of it into your life?

• 53:22Joe Rogan?

  Just remember, you know, I just, I, it's, there's profound moments where I think, you know, change you forever and those, if you can hold on to them. Some people don't hold on to them, but it's a matter of intention, right? It's a matter of like, what are you trying to do? You're trying to be better at life? Well, if you're trying to be better at life, you can hold on to it. If you're not, if you're just trying to like be the man or, you know,

• 53:43Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 53:43Joe Rogan?

  You know, and get all the accolades or, you know, win a fucking Grammy or whatever you're trying to do. Like if that's your real goal, like you're gonna get lost, cause it's a shitty goal.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  How old were you when you took a, a hallucinogen for the first time?

• 53:54Joe Rogan?

  Thirty.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  I was thirteen.

• 53:56Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, so that's a little too early. I wouldn't recommend that.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  I wouldn't recommend it either, but it it changed my life. And I had, by the way, I took it twice in a twenty four hour period.

• 54:07Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  So I took it thirteen, had the greatest trip ever, like still affected by it. And then I took it again that night and went to hell.

• 54:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 54:17Joe Rogan?

  You got cocky.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  No.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  No.

• 54:21Joe Rogan?

  Psychedelics want to bring you down a notch.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  It just did what it did. It did. It did. And I truly believe that psychedelics, I don't do psychedelics anymore, but I think I did. But I do breath work. I do shit like that. And you go, can you get there? And I go, yeah, I've had some of the most amazing hallucinations I've ever had, most profound hallucinations I've ever had. Holotropic breathing.

• 54:41Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Breath work with Laird going off. And if you do it long enough, you just reach a place, or if you're in a sauna at two hundred and forty degrees for an hour doing breath work.

• 54:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  You're gonna go places.

• 54:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no doubt. Um, sensory deprivation tank, you don't need anything.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  Don't need anything.

• 54:55Joe Rogan?

  Trip balls. If they could give you in a pill form, what the experience you get from a psych- from sensory deprivation tank, it'd be a very popular drug.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:03Joe Rogan?

  And it's completely safe.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  And a productive drug.

• 55:06Joe Rogan?

  Yes, very productive.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  So there's sensory, you say the sensory deprivation tank, but I just saw, you can see it online or whatever. Where people literally put a thing, they go into a room, there's silence. It's not like a, um, you know, where they don't talk, a meditation retreat or whatever. But they literally go into a room by themselves. They don't see anybody else. They put a thick mask on and they're in for four days. Five days. Have you seen that?

• 55:30Joe Rogan?

  I have heard of people doing stuff like that, yeah.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  What about that?

• 55:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think being alone with your thoughts is uncomfortable for people, and I think a lot of people avoid that. They avoid really thinking, and you're forced to really think.

• 55:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:42Joe Rogan?

  You know, when you're in those sort of situations.

• 55:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:44Joe Rogan?

  You're forced to be alone with your thoughts, you know?

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Scary.

• 55:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, we're always distracted. You know, we're distracted by people and devices and input and news and social media, and there's like constantly stuff coming in. And sometimes you don't, like, how do I feel about everything? Like, what, do I even know? Do I, have I ever really considered things? Like, you need time alone. You need time to think, you know? That's what I really like about, that's why I work out by myself. That's why I like to.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  You work out by yourself?

• 56:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 56:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  You don't like having a trainer?

• 56:17Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I've had a lot of trainers. I appreciate them for technical advice and stuff like that. But this is a meditative aspect of working out by myself that I think is very important. It's also discipline. Like, I don't, it's easy to go somewhere and a guy tells you, okay, 10 reps. But I write my own workouts out.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  Based on that day.

• 56:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, I know what I want to do. I, you know, I'm pretty good at it.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  It's funny, I haven't heard many people say that, but I, I, I, I feel, and it's not just some bullshit, like affectation rebellious thing. When I'm with it, and I appreciate trainers too, and I've had, I've worked with some great trainers. But they make me want to do less.

• 56:55Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 56:55Speaker 02

  You know, they go, do 10. And I go, but why?

• 56:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, you're one of those guys.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  I'm one of those assholes. I'm one of those assholes.

• 57:02Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 57:03Speaker 02

  But I will actually push myself if, say, 12, just for a random word, a random number, 12 is my limit. I'm good at pushing myself to 15. Or Jeff Cavallari, do you know who that is?

• 57:15Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  Athlean X.

• 57:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, you have heard of that guy, yeah.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  Super smart guy.

• 57:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  And we would go back and forth and I'd be like, look, if I'm in, if I'm, you know, if I'm at my last three reps, why do we have to rest for two minutes? Like, who said that? Who made that up? Is it really a recovery thing, two minutes before you can go back into 12 more reps? What if we just rest 30 seconds and then you're right back into that thing almost immediately? And those are the things that are tearing the tissues and growing the muscle and all that kind of stuff. So just experimenting with it all. Again, this all goes back down to what we watched. Of like, what are we doing to just live a little more vividly?

• 57:52Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  How are we pushing ourselves? How are we changing our perception? How are we pushing our perception?

• 57:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, it depends on what you're trying to do, right? If you're just trying to get like conditioned, yeah. Give yourself the minimal amount of rest and do it for as long as possible. And then take time off afterwards for your body to heal and then get back after it.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  As just a base.

• 58:09Joe Rogan?

  But it depends on what you're trying to do. If you're trying to get strong, I always recommend taking out like long, long periods of time in between sets. I take like five minutes, maybe even more in between sets.

• 58:20Speaker 02

  To come back in at your strongest, to tell your body.

• 58:24Joe Rogan?

  Workouts. My workout's like two hours sometimes, two and a half hours because I have these long breaks in between. But because of that, it's, you know who Pavel Tatsalini is?

• 58:32Speaker 02

  No.

• 58:32Joe Rogan?

  He's uh, one of the godfathers of kettlebells. He's one of the first people that introduced kettlebells to America from Russia. And their, their philosophy, his philosophy, his strong first philosophy is that strength is a skill. And you don't work on a skill when you're tired. So it's all about how many repetitions you do and that's what builds strength.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 58:51Joe Rogan?

  So it doesn't mean you have to do ten in a row. Like say if ten is your max, say if you pick up a weight and you could do ten cleans and presses and on the tenth one you're like, ah. His philosophy is do five. Do five, wait a long time, do another five. So you've got the ten in, but you've got the ten in with perfect form.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 59:11Joe Rogan?

  And then you're still getting the same amount of repetitions, but you're not breaking yourself down to the point where you might get hurt or where you're doing it incorrectly, you're in poor form. So that's how I work out.

• 59:21Speaker 02

  I talked, I talked to my, me too. I talked to my wife a lot about that. My wife would say, because I, I go, I'm all about form.

• 59:27Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  Because otherwise you just get hurt and what's the fucking point?

• 59:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I rarely get hurt from lifting weights.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  Have you ever gotten hurt in jujitsu?

• 59:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  A lot. Everybody tears and pops and meniscus and.

• 59:39Joe Rogan?

  I've had surgeries and fucking bulging discs and torn this and torn that. Yeah. You have to. It's a sport where you're trying to kill each other.

• 59:51Joe Rogan?

  It's true. You're trying to get really good at killing people with your body. So other people are doing that to you.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  I had sciatica for a year and a half.

• 59:58Joe Rogan?

  Oui.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Bad sciatica. Nine millimeter slip between S five, no, uh, L five and S one.

• 1:00:05Joe Rogan?

  How'd you get rid of it?

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  And they wanted to do surgery and I'd had surgery when I was really young because I had a slipped disc between C five and C six. And they took out part of my hip and they went in through my neck. They moved everything over and they replaced my, my disc with part of my hip, back when they used to do that.

• 1:00:22Joe Rogan?

  They used to play, replaced your disc with part of your hip?

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, they would chisel out a part of your hip.

• 1:00:26Joe Rogan?

  Like a bone?

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:28Joe Rogan?

  And that's what your disc was now? A piece of bone?

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  Is now.

• 1:00:32Joe Rogan?

  That doesn't even make sense. Your disc is supposed to be spongy.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  I know. I don't understand why.

• 1:00:36Joe Rogan?

  They put a piece of bone in there?

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it worked. It actually worked. Yeah. Dr. Delamater. I never forget his name.

• 1:00:43Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  So yeah, and then they use cadaver bone for a while and now they use what?

• 1:00:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, it depends. There's uh, artificial discs. I know a couple of people that have artificial discs.

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  And it worked?

• 1:00:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my friend Eddie got it done in his lower back. He, he was basically bone on bone, constant inflammation. So he got a titanium articulating disc that's in his back. What is this? Surgery might take a small piece of bone from the hip called an autograft to use in a neck surgery called interior cervical discectomy and fusion. The bone is placed between the space between the vertebrae to stimulate bone healing and promote fusion. Oh, so you got your neck fused?

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, they call it a Brolin graft.

• 1:01:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:01:21Joe Rogan?

  Uh.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  Hey.

• 1:01:23Joe Rogan?

  Hey. Wow, so that's, that's different. That's you got your hip, your neck fused.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  Fused, which they probably don't even do fusion.

• 1:01:31Joe Rogan?

  They do. They still do fusions.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  If it's a massive break or something like that, maybe.

• 1:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't recommend it. There's other ways you can heal bulging discs. And one of them's, there's a, a process called regeniquine. And regeniquine is, uh, I had that done in LA, in Santa Monica. They used to do it in Germany. You used to have to go to Germany to do it. And like Kobe Bryant went over there and Peyton Manning went over there. And what they do is they take your blood out. It's like platelet-rich plasma, but it's a, it's a more advanced. It's more advanced version of it. And they spin your blood in the centrifuge and they add some stuff to it. And it turns it into like one of the most potent anti-inflammatories. And then what they do is you lie down there and they inject it in your back. They have like these little needles. I think there's an Instagram post of me getting it done on my lower back.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Did you have a slipped disc in your lower back?

• 1:02:19Joe Rogan?

  Bulging, you know, it's, it's essentially a bulging disc, but it can go back. Bulging disc can go back.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  But that was my experience.

• 1:02:26Joe Rogan?

  You also have to have uh, traction, like uh, decompression. So there's a bunch, there it is. So that's my back.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  I had that done.

• 1:02:34Joe Rogan?

  So they take that and they stick all that shit, but all that.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  And they drill that, don't they?

• 1:02:38Joe Rogan?

  They just put holes. No, it's just, it's just needles.

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  It's, I know it's needles, but it's not like acupuncture. They actually drill that, then they put the needle in, don't they?

• 1:02:47Joe Rogan?

  No, no, they just shove that needle in place. It's just like a syringe.

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  On each side of your spinal column, right?

• 1:02:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like a syringe and then inside the syringe, they pump in the regeniquine stuff.

• 1:02:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:58Joe Rogan?

  And then it uh. It fills your, those, those areas up with this platelet-rich plasma that's been enhanced and it just heals everything.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  And did you feel like it helped?

• 1:03:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, absolutely.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  You felt?

• 1:03:09Joe Rogan?

  It, it helped my neck so mu- my neck was so fucked.

• 1:03:13Speaker 02

  Jacked.

• 1:03:13Joe Rogan?

  My neck was so fucked, I was getting numb fingers and pain in my elbow.

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  I have that now.

• 1:03:18Joe Rogan?

  Do you really?

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19Joe Rogan?

  You should go, go to that place.

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, and when I ride motorcycles also.

• 1:03:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:23Speaker 02

  When I have my hands up like, I mean, I have shoulder issues. But I have a, a, that slip disc was a nine millimeter slip.

• 1:03:29Joe Rogan?

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• 1:04:12Joe Rogan?

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• 1:04:57Joe Rogan?

  And for extra boost, there's AG1 Pro. And that has the same Next Gen formula, but with five grams of creatine, C-A-A.

• 1:05:09Joe Rogan?

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• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  Because that looks cooler.

• 1:05:47Joe Rogan?

  Does it? Not to me.

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  It looks super cool when you're doing it right now.

• 1:05:52Joe Rogan?

  This looks retarded. This looks good. This looks like you could avoid things.

• 1:05:56Speaker 02

  Put it up super high.

• 1:05:56Joe Rogan?

  You can move around.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  Put it up super high.

• 1:05:57Joe Rogan?

  This is like...

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  That looks retarded.

• 1:05:59Joe Rogan?

  When you have to turn?

• 1:06:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Joe Rogan?

  Like, how are you gonna turn like that? You're not gonna do a good job.

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  You look like a gorilla.

• 1:06:03Joe Rogan?

  This is better. This is better.

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  What about that?

• 1:06:06Joe Rogan?

  This is better.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  What about this?

• 1:06:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, Ducatis. I mean, that's like your down like this, right?

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  That's when I finally crashed, was a Ducati.

• 1:06:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really? You went crazy?

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  No, I didn't go crazy. I didn't do anything differently. With parleys, you'd go slower.

• 1:06:18Joe Rogan?

  Right. Right.

• 1:06:19Speaker 02

  You ride. It's about the communal...

• 1:06:20Joe Rogan?

  And it's loud, so people know you're there. Yeah. That's a big one.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  It's huge.

• 1:06:24Joe Rogan?

  They have electric bikes now. I'm like, do you wanna die?

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  They're fast.

• 1:06:27Joe Rogan?

  They're so fast, but do you wanna die? They make no sound.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  Nobody can hear you. If I'm riding in a grid of 16 guys.

• 1:06:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  Every... Because everybody thinks hell's angels. I go, there's nothing about it that's trying to emulate hell's angels, Mongols, any of that, you know, 1 percenter thing. But when you hear that rumble coming down the road, you can't wait to get the fuck out of the way.

• 1:06:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  And that helps us.

• 1:06:51Joe Rogan?

  That definitely helps you stay alive. Yeah. Yeah, loud pipes save lives. I've heard that many times.

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  So to finish that thought, what I did was, is I went to, I started... Instead of resting, which is what doctors normally say, they're say, do surgery, do surgery, rest, sleep, see if that helps. If it doesn't help, do surgery. And I did the opposite, which later, you know Laird was like, anytime you get hurt Laird will be like, movement, movement, movement, movement. But this was before all that. But I started working out and it got worse and it got worse and it got worse. But I continued to work out and I started running and I started doing pistol squats and all this kinda shit. And then one day it was gone and I never came back.

• 1:07:33Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  Never came back.

• 1:07:34Joe Rogan?

  So you just beat it out of you?

• 1:07:35Speaker 02

  I beat it out of me.

• 1:07:36Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, movement is everything. You need circulation and when-

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  You need blood in there, which is why they do PRP, which is why they do stem cell work or whatever.

• 1:07:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And if you're just sitting there, the problem is you're also gonna, your body's gonna atrophy. You're gonna lose strength and then it's gonna make whatever injured that area in the first place is probably a lack of strength.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  By doctors. Why would that always be promoted by doctors? Again, whether it's politicians or whether it's doctors or whether it's, they're telling you, this is, you gotta eat from the four food groups, man. You're gonna die otherwise and you're like-

• 1:08:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, there's a lot to that stuff, but the, you know, the four group, four food group shit is a lot of it's people just not knowing what the fuck they're talking about.

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  That's what I mean.

• 1:08:17Joe Rogan?

  And also there's a different perception back then of like what was healthy versus now. But it's also a lot of these doctors, they're not athletes and they don't really understand like what's possible with the body. They just know how to fix things when they break.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:32Joe Rogan?

  And then for the average person, they say just rest. Because the average person is not gonna fucking do what you're doing anyway. So it's like, why, why tell them? Like what you really need to do is movement, constant movement and just beat that injury into submission.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:08:45Joe Rogan?

  And no one's gonna tell you that.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  How do I feel better? Lose some weight.

• 1:08:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  Like go, go do that uncomfortable thing. Start walking, start slow, maybe jog a little bit, maybe lift a little something. That's why when you see those videos of these guys that just, for whatever is in their personality, they've had fucking enough. They're 400 pounds and they go, that's it.

• 1:09:03Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  Buck stops here.

• 1:09:05Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  I'm gonna start doing my shit.

• 1:09:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they hit rock bottom.

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  They hit rock bottom.

• 1:09:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  And then you see this again, what we were talking about before incentive where they just go, I don't give a shit.

• 1:09:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, isn't that the same with everything? Like, isn't that how you quit drinking? You just hit rock bottom?

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  About to say that. Yeah, but you don't, I don't, I hit rock bottom when I was 15, you know, I was shooting coke at 15. So, yeah, the thing that you didn't want to try. I did want to try, but that was that group. That's why so many of those guys died.

• 1:09:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:32Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? So when I look at Hunter S. Thompson, who I love as a writer, when I look at Dylan Thomas, who I love as a writer, and all these guys that had this kind of amazing life, and I feel too, parallel. I had an amazing life, except nobody cared about mine. People really cared about theirs. I was just Josh that you wanted to stay the fuck away from. Well, like, that motherfucker's great to spend like an hour with, and then once it hits ten o'clock, and the moon comes out and the clouds part, you don't want to be anywhere around. Yeah.

• 1:10:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  But then you get to that point where you go, when did Hunter S. Thompson, when did these guys just become like some kind of clown mask of themselves?

• 1:10:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean?

• 1:10:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, in the end, Hunter was definitely that. You ever see when Hunter was on Conan O'Brien's show?

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:10:19Joe Rogan?

  It was horrible. He could barely talk. You barely could understand him.

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  His everything was mumbled.

• 1:10:26Joe Rogan?

  It was everything, it was real weird, and, you know, he was, he got in a gunfight with his fucking neighbors, he's like shooting at his neighbors.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  That's what I mean. It's at what point does it turn?

• 1:10:34Joe Rogan?

  He was a full-on drunk, but it wasn't just that. His body was like rapidly deteriorating. He had hip replacement surgery and...

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  And he was only sixty...

• 1:10:43Joe Rogan?

  Seventy, I think.

• 1:10:43Speaker 02

  That's not old, man.

• 1:10:45Joe Rogan?

  No, not that old.

• 1:10:46Speaker 02

  That's young.

• 1:10:47Joe Rogan?

  Not that old for what?

• 1:10:47Speaker 02

  How old are you?

• 1:10:48Joe Rogan?

  Fifty-seven.

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  I'm fifty-six.

• 1:10:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:50Speaker 02

  Like, my mom died at fifty-five. The whole thing this book became was my mom dying at fifty-five and me thinking back then, she lived a nice, long life.

• 1:10:59Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  It's fucking crazy. And then it turned out that I was fifty-five when I wrote the book, which I'd never even...

• 1:11:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  The book kind of dictated itself, and then I went, holy fuck, I'm fifty-five.

• 1:11:10Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  I'm super young.

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Fucking super young. Like, yes, I have some joint issues, but I'm young, for the most part.

• 1:11:18Joe Rogan?

  For the most part. Yeah, you're physically healthy. You're not falling apart.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:22Joe Rogan?

  You just have a few issues.

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Joe Rogan?

  Which is just wear and tear of life.

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 1:11:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but there's some people that... If you don't take care of yourself and you don't eat well and there's also a lot of other factors, genetic factors, but you could fall apart pretty quick. But if you're a guy like Hunter that's doing coke and drinking every night, you can't do that.

• 1:11:40Speaker 02

  No, you can't.

• 1:11:41Joe Rogan?

  It just won't. And the writing was bad. Like his, the only time he wrote anything good in later years was 2001, right after 9/11. Right after 9/11, he wrote this great piece. I want to say it was like for Sports Illustrated. It was, I forget who he wrote it for, but he wrote this really great piece talking about what happens next after the twin towers fall. It's like he wrote this thing about waking up in the morning, seeing the twin towers fall, and then realizing what's ahead for us.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:10Joe Rogan?

  It was very prescient. It was very good. It was very, it was-

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  Was it accurate?

• 1:12:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, it was dead on. It was dead on. And it was vintage Hunter. It's like he tapped back into it again.

• 1:12:22Speaker 04

  It's on ESPN.

• 1:12:23Joe Rogan?

  ESPN, that's it.

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  ESPN, this is the article?

• 1:12:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is the article.

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  Would you send me this article if it's an article, article, a long article? I would love that.

• 1:12:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. This is, you know, this is the whole thing.

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  I mean, what's so great is when you go, I mean, this is kind of popping all over the place, but when you go back and you look at all the politicians, whatever side, you know, whatever, whatever red, blue they leaned toward, it didn't matter because Hunter was there kind of looking for something different and it wasn't all about him. When it came down, they all describe Hunter as this like crazy, it was so much fun to hang out with him, but there was never a lack of he was super intelligent.

• 1:13:04Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  And wanted the best for everybody.

• 1:13:06Joe Rogan?

  He was a real patriot.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  He was a true patriot.

• 1:13:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, did you ever read Fear and Loathing on the campaign trail?

• 1:13:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:12Joe Rogan?

  That's one of the more interesting pieces because you got this guy who's following around the campaign trail and he knows he's only in it for this one time. So he's not like any of these other reporters. He's just writing a book.

• 1:13:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, would you have to fire him?

• 1:13:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly. And not only that, you can't because he's going to write a book. Like he's writing a book. You can't fire him.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  Whether you like it or not.

• 1:13:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, whether you like it or not, he's writing that book. But, you know, he's dropping acid, he's talking to these guys and they're drinking. Like he's taking all these like fucking nerdy- Political reporters.

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:39Joe Rogan?

  And he's introducing them to a perspective that they they're not aware of. They don't know anybody like that.

• 1:13:45Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:13:46Joe Rogan?

  And the book is fucking incredible.

• 1:13:48Speaker 02

  But when you see Gonzo, when you see, it's funny how much we're talking about Hunter S. Thompson, but when you see Gonzo, I don't know if it was in Gonzo or another documentary, you see how they're affected by it. You see a humanity in them because of him that you don't normally get to see.

• 1:14:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  Don't you agree?

• 1:14:03Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yeah, he made you question a lot of things.

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:07Joe Rogan?

  And when people question things, they're like, what am I doing? Like, what?

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, why am I here? What is my purpose? Or did I have a purpose when I was young and I just fell into this political status quo?

• 1:14:16Joe Rogan?

  And he even was questioning, like in the documentary, he was like, I don't even know what people want anymore. Do they want Hunter S. Thompson? Or they want Gonzo? Like, that's not even me anymore. It's like, I'm a prisoner of this thing that I've created.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:28Joe Rogan?

  And that's, that's the thing that happens to people where they, they develop this sort of image and persona. Yeah. And then you feel like you're trapped by it.

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:37Joe Rogan?

  You, people have expectations when they meet you.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  Exactly right.

• 1:14:39Joe Rogan?

  Kennison talked about that.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  Did you know Kennison?

• 1:14:42Joe Rogan?

  No, unfortunately. Did you?

• 1:14:44Speaker 02

  I did.

• 1:14:44Joe Rogan?

  No shit.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. And not because of drugs, just because I was around.

• 1:14:49Joe Rogan?

  What year was this?

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  When did he die?

• 1:14:52Joe Rogan?

  Eight ninety-ish, two ninety-two, maybe? I was in New York, so it had to be pre ninety-four.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  Probably ninety.

• 1:15:00Joe Rogan?

  Somewhere around then.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  I would say ninety, I knew him. Ninety, ninety-one. It was through a friend that I met him and then he liked me.

• 1:15:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:15:08Speaker 02

  And sweet, incredibly sweet guy.

• 1:15:11Joe Rogan?

  He was a motherfucker, dude.

• 1:15:12Speaker 02

  Motherfucker.

• 1:15:13Joe Rogan?

  We just got a, um, this guy does bottle cap art.

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:16Joe Rogan?

  Go to my Instagram, Jamie, and see that photo. This guy just, uh, made this insane bottle cap art piece of Kennison for my comedy club, and we put it up last night.

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  Is he a hero of yours?

• 1:15:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. He was one of the first, there it is.

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  Ow, ow, ow!

• 1:15:31Joe Rogan?

  That's all bottle caps.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  Oh, no shit?

• 1:15:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, those are bottle caps.

• 1:15:35Speaker 02

  Wow, man.

• 1:15:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  That's like in prison when they use, uh, they use cigarette packs and do. Patricia Arquette gave me a piece of art with a bunch of cigarette packs.

• 1:15:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, they make frames. That was it.

• 1:15:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  Same kind of thing.

• 1:15:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this guy, his, uh, his name is Jam Bottle Cap Art, J A M Bottle Cap Art. He does a bunch of different pieces with bottle cap art. Yeah, he's really good. It's really, really cool stuff.

• 1:16:01Speaker 02

  You need my picture outside. I saw all your.

• 1:16:03Joe Rogan?

  Mug shots?

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  Your mug shots.

• 1:16:04Joe Rogan?

  I'd love to have a mug shot of you.

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  I'll send you one.

• 1:16:06Joe Rogan?

  Is it good? How fucked up do you look?

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  I.

• 1:16:09Joe Rogan?

  Pretty fucked up?

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  I got a smile on my face. When somebody smiles during a mug shot, I always find that really funny.

• 1:16:16Joe Rogan?

  So when you met Kinison, was it at a show? Was it just?

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  No. Oh, it might have been the comedy club.

• 1:16:22Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:16:22Speaker 02

  I'd only been a few times.

• 1:16:23Joe Rogan?

  Comedy Store, maybe?

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  Sorry, Comedy Store.

• 1:16:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, he was out of there by then. He was out of there by ninety.

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  Well, what's the one down the road by where Greenblatt's used to be?

• 1:16:31Joe Rogan?

  Laugh Factory. Yeah. Yeah, you like those?

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  I do. Very much.

• 1:16:35Joe Rogan?

  Um, The Laugh Factory.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  The Laugh Factory. It might have been that.

• 1:16:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he got kicked out of the Comedy Store, I think in like eighty-seven or eighty-eight.

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  Then it wasn't there.

• 1:16:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was probably The Laugh Factory.

• 1:16:46Speaker 02

  But that's not where I met him. I met him at a house.

• 1:16:48Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  I met him at a house and I never went to a lot of those parties. I was not, just not part of that. Sam wasn't invited.

• 1:16:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:55Speaker 02

  And, but I, but I, I met him and I would, he just, he was really sweet, man. He would like mellow out. It wasn't like a thing. It wasn't an act all the time.

• 1:17:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:05Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:17:06Joe Rogan?

  But he was a prisoner to that thing that he became.

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:17:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. His brother wrote a great book. It's called Brother Sam.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 1:17:13Joe Rogan?

  It's really, really good book describing like the ascent of his career and how it fucked him up and what happened to him.

• 1:17:19Speaker 02

  And what do you think it was? I mean, was the?

• 1:17:21Joe Rogan?

  Drugs and partying and just.

• 1:17:23Speaker 02

  And stratospheric.

• 1:17:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  Wasn't it instantaneous?

• 1:17:26Joe Rogan?

  Pretty quick. So in nineteen eighty-six, he's on Roddy Dangerfield's Young Comedian Special. And then he does, uh, an insane, to this day, holds up, uh, HBO hour.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:39Joe Rogan?

  And then those two things and then, uh, um, an album that he made called Louder Than Hell. And those, those things are the best things he ever does. Everything after that becomes like a significant drop off. And in the end, he was basically a caricature of who he used to be.

• 1:17:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, caricature of himself, exactly.

• 1:17:57Joe Rogan?

  And he just was captured.

• 1:17:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:59Joe Rogan?

  But it's also.

• 1:18:00Speaker 02

  Imprisoned.

• 1:18:01Joe Rogan?

  There wasn't anybody to tell you how to do it back then. There was only a few, like massively famous comedians back then. There wasn't a lot of us. It wasn't, it wasn't like today.

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:18:12Joe Rogan?

  Today, there's like a giant community of comedians. We all talk to each other and figure it out together. And everybody's just about making better stuff.

• 1:18:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:21Joe Rogan?

  It's not about like getting hugely famous. The ones that just want to get hugely famous, they're all mentally ill. And usually their, their career drops off, their comedy starts to suck. They're trying to do the wrong thing.

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:33Joe Rogan?

  So in Kennethson, in the beginning, he just wanted to be the best he could be. He just wanted to be really fucking good at comedy. And coming from this, you know, tent preacher.

• 1:18:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:45Joe Rogan?

  So he's like this revival tent preacher. And then he gets into stand up comedy and he has this charisma and.

• 1:18:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Joe Rogan?

  This ability to deliver that's so different than everybody else.

• 1:18:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:54Joe Rogan?

  And he's this short, fat guy. So when he talks about being married and living in hell, like you kind of like empathize with it. Like this fucking guy's amazing.

• 1:19:01Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:19:02Joe Rogan?

  And revolutionized comedy, changed comedy. He was the first guy that I ever saw that made me think I could do comedy. Cause before then I loved comedy. I always loved stand up, but I loved it because it was funny. I would just like to watch, you know, Jerry Seinfeld on TV. Oh, these guys are so funny.

• 1:19:16Speaker 02

  Isn't that funny? Cause you're so different than he is, and yet he was the one that you paralleled with that like liberated you?

• 1:19:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, he was wild. That was the thing. I never felt like I fit in. I always felt like I didn't want to be around polite people. I didn't want like, you know, if a, a girl wanted me to go over to her house and have dinner with her parents. I was like, oh, Jesus.

• 1:19:35Speaker 02

  I'm fucked.

• 1:19:36Joe Rogan?

  They're gonna think I'm fucking crazy. But I was a kick boxer. You know, I was a kid who had, I went from, you know, when I was 15 years old, I got like deeply involved in martial arts.

• 1:19:47Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:19:47Joe Rogan?

  My entire social life up until like 21, 22 was just traveling around the country, fighting. And so. My, I was feral, like my, my mindset was just, I would just didn't fit in. I couldn't wear a suit jacket and pretend to be the guy. Did you ever notice? I wa- I wasn't that guy.

• 1:20:04Speaker 02

  Hello, sir. It's great to meet you.

• 1:20:06Joe Rogan?

  Things that I thought were funny, other people would think were fucked up, but my fucked up friends would think were funny. And those are the ones who talked me into doing stand up, but they were equally fucked up.

• 1:20:14Speaker 02

  Did you start stand up back then?

• 1:20:16Joe Rogan?

  In Boston, in eighty eight.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  In eighty eight?

• 1:20:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, and, and I went to see Kinnison in eighty nine. I got to see him live in eighty nine. I got to see him three times. One time when I was working. I was working at Great Woods Center for the Performing Arts and he was performing there. And I got to see him live. I was a security guard. It was this place in Mansfield. Yeah, this, this, the whole Taekwondo team that I was a part of.

• 1:20:40Speaker 02

  Is that what you did, Taekwondo?

• 1:20:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:42Speaker 02

  That's what I used to compete in.

• 1:20:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no kidding? Where'd you compete out of?

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  Jun Chong.

• 1:20:46Joe Rogan?

  Where was that?

• 1:20:47Speaker 02

  L.A.

• 1:20:47Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:20:48Speaker 02

  Taekwondo.

• 1:20:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, I fought in L.A. When I lived in Boston, I fought in Anaheim in the Nationals.

• 1:20:54Speaker 02

  Right on.

• 1:20:54Joe Rogan?

  Um, I, I traveled all over the country competing. That's all I did. And, uh, one of the guys who worked with us, one of the guys who trained with us got a job as a security guard. And, uh, you know, the guy was like, hey, do you know any more guys who know how to fight? Like, we, we need more guys like that to work for us. They just hired a bunch of us.

• 1:21:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:21:14Joe Rogan?

  And so we got to see all these crazy concerts. Like, I got to see Bon Jovi. I got to see Bill Cosby, which was kinda crazy. Yeah. I saw Rodney Dangerfield and Rodney Dangerfield was, there was this backstage area. And Rodney Dangerfield was naked with a bathrobe on and that's how he would go on stage. At the end of his career, like Rodney would go, and by the way, murdered. I mean, I was fucking.

• 1:21:39Speaker 02

  Had people on the floor.

• 1:21:40Joe Rogan?

  Laughing. He was probably, I don't know how old he was in eighty nine, but he was old. And this fucking guy was just on stage with a bathrobe on, naked.

• 1:21:52Speaker 02

  Killing it.

• 1:21:52Joe Rogan?

  Giant hog, like hanging out of his fucking pants. And he was just, uh, just hanging out, smoking pot, and then he would go on stage with a bathrobe on. And just kill, but he, because he wanted to be comfortable.

• 1:22:04Speaker 02

  How did other, how did other comedians feel about him?

• 1:22:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they loved him.

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  They loved him.

• 1:22:08Joe Rogan?

  Everybody loved Rodney. Rodney was one of the most universally loved comedians, uh, cause he helped other comedians. Like Rodney Dangerfield. He did these things, the Rodney Dangerfield specials, like Rodney and Friends. And so, he would have, he introduced the world to Dice Clay, Sam Kinison, Robert Schimmel, Lenny Clark, Dom Irrera, like some of the greats. And they all came out of his Rodney Dangerfield and Friends specials. They were some of the greatest specials ever. Because he would have all these guys that he thought were worth seeing. And he would put them out there to the world, and they all became superstars. I mean, that's how Sam Kinison launched. He launched from Rodney. And so, Bill Hicks, a lot of people, launched from Rodney.

• 1:22:52Joe Rogan?

  And, so, everybody loved Rodney. He was just loved.

• 1:22:55Speaker 02

  I know he's your buddy, and I, you know, because comedians, I used to listen, I used to have six albums, and one was a bloody red vinyl. Remember the red albums?

• 1:23:04Joe Rogan?

  Okay, sure, yeah, yeah.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  And it was sick, and I don't know where I got them, I think I got them from like a flea market or something, but they were Lenny Bruce.

• 1:23:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:13Speaker 02

  And that was the beginning.

• 1:23:14Joe Rogan?

  He was the first.

• 1:23:15Speaker 02

  He was the first.

• 1:23:16Joe Rogan?

  He was the first real, modern, stand-up comedian. Everybody else just told jokes, like, two guys walking over a bar, like that kinda shit. He was the first guy that was like, why do we do this? And why is that? And like, what is this?

• 1:23:28Speaker 02

  Where he questioned it. Questioned authority.

• 1:23:30Joe Rogan?

  And people would come to see him, because in the 60s, everybody was so confused at how to think. Like, what, yeah, what are we doing? And this guy was like this-

• 1:23:38Speaker 02

  And how do we treat each other?

• 1:23:39Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  And he'd literally point people out, and he'd go, hebe and kike, and there's a Mick.

• 1:23:44Joe Rogan?

  Yep, yep, yep.

• 1:23:45Speaker 02

  And people would go, what the fuck is he doing? At the most tense time, and then he'd bring it around, and he, that's why it reminds me of Chappelle.

• 1:23:52Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:23:53Speaker 02

  Cause Chappelle would get so seemingly, or ostensibly, inappropriate.

• 1:23:57Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  And then somehow bring it around.

• 1:24:00Joe Rogan?

  Bring it around, yeah.

• 1:24:00Speaker 02

  And you go, fucking Jesus.

• 1:24:02Joe Rogan?

  Dave's a master.

• 1:24:02Speaker 02

  Master.

• 1:24:03Joe Rogan?

  And he's a real artist. That's a guy, like, you know, I talk about like people that only start thinking about money?

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:09Joe Rogan?

  That's not him. That dude lives in fucking Springfield, Ohio, and just travels around and just does a lot of shows for no money. He does a lot of shows for no money. He just shows up and performs. One time I was in Denver- And I get offstage, it's uh first show, uh second show Friday night, so it's ten o'clock show, show's over. I get offstage, I go into the green room, Dave's there, I go, Dave, what are you doing here, man? He goes, I thought I'd come out and visit you, just hops on a fucking private jet and flies to Denver, cause he knew I was there. Didn't even tell me, just shows up. And then I go, do you wanna go onstage? He goes, oh, should I? I go, fuck yeah. So I ran out while the people were leaving, the show was already over, I go, everybody, tell everybody on the stairs, come back, Dave Chappelle's here. So they all come back in and sit down again, and he does like forty-five minutes.

• 1:24:54Joe Rogan?

  And it was right around when Trump was doing, when he got caught saying grab him by the pussy.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:59Joe Rogan?

  Like, ten minutes about grab him by the pussy, like, it was fucking genius, it was so good.

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  Off the top of his head, though?

• 1:25:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, he, I mean, I don't know exactly how Dave creates material. Uh Dave, I think what Dave does is spends a lot of time thinking and listening to music and coming up with ideas.

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:20Joe Rogan?

  And he writes some stuff down, but a lot of what he does is just performs constantly, he's constantly onstage working these things out.

• 1:25:27Speaker 02

  You said it earlier, artist, and that's the difference, that's the difference between somebody who's just good at what they do and somebody who is an innate artist.

• 1:25:35Joe Rogan?

  He's a real artist, and he gets, he's a hero of mine, too, he's a good friend. But he gets these giant deals with Netflix where he makes a lot of money, which is great, but he doesn't do it for money.

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:46Joe Rogan?

  He's doing it for art.

• 1:25:47Speaker 02

  No, but what you can tell is he, he gets these like, oh, he turned down fifty million dollars, he went crazy, moved to Ohio, or whatever the fucking story is that you wanna make up. But then he comes back, he makes these twenty million deal, dollar deals with Netflix, but it's never in place of his agenda.

• 1:26:06Joe Rogan?

  No, it's all about the art, it's all about comedy.

• 1:26:07Speaker 02

  It's all about, this wins, this wins, this is the priority.

• 1:26:11Joe Rogan?

  That's why he left his show, because they were twisting it, distorting it.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  Of course, I know why he left his show, because I've been in that position where you go, this is turning into some corporate version

• 1:26:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  of what you like, you love what I do, now you can't wait to put your fingerprint on it.

• 1:26:26Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:26:27Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 1:26:27Joe Rogan?

  That's exactly what it was.

• 1:26:28Speaker 02

  So you can take, so you can go, you know, that was me.

• 1:26:31Joe Rogan?

  And he gave up fifty million when no one was giving.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  Nobody would fucking do that, man.

• 1:26:36Joe Rogan?

  Quit doing comedy for ten years. And you know what he would do? He would occasionally show up in a park with like a fucking speaker and just show up and do stand up. Yes, he did. He did in Seattle. I know he did in Seattle because a friend of mine was at the show.

• 1:26:48Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:26:48Joe Rogan?

  He shows up, he goes, Dave Chappelle just shows up in this fucking park and he gets a speaker with a microphone and he just starts talking and people just gather around.

• 1:26:58Speaker 02

  Respect.

• 1:26:59Joe Rogan?

  He was just doing these like shows, these impromptu shows. He would show up in a bar. Can I go onstage? And they would go, uh, okay. And he would just start talking.

• 1:27:08Speaker 02

  Knowing in his mind that he would eventually come back? No, that was just the present moment.

• 1:27:12Joe Rogan?

  I think he's just being an artist. Just being an artist for the pure sake of being an artist. So he had the money that he did make off Chappelle's Show and he decided to like live frugally and take that money. And he didn't do anything for money for like ten fucking years.

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  He just raised his.

• 1:27:26Joe Rogan?

  And then he started coming back. And then when he started coming back, I remember him coming around the Comedy Store again and we had some conversations about it and he just, you know, he just decided to start doing comedy again. And then he's.

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  You see people getting canceled now and it's devastating to them and yet that's what that was. He just did it himself.

• 1:27:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  He canceled himself.

• 1:27:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He canceled the greatest sketch show of all time.

• 1:27:48Speaker 02

  Of all time.

• 1:27:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, of all, and it only did two seasons. It's still the greatest.

• 1:27:52Speaker 02

  But that's not something that you see very often. It's somebody who just fucking can't help but beat to their own drum.

• 1:27:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:27:58Speaker 02

  But the art wins in the end.

• 1:28:00Joe Rogan?

  The art wins. For him, well, it's obviously when you see him. He's so good.

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  He's not malicious. He seems, there are moments where you think he's malicious. And again, he brings it around in the end.

• 1:28:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, the malicious is just to heighten the humor. It all just like brings it in. It also accentuates like some thoughts that you might have about whatever he's talking about.

• 1:28:18Speaker 02

  But it's what everybody's thinking.

• 1:28:19Joe Rogan?

  Yep, exactly.

• 1:28:21Speaker 02

  And so fucking terrified to say, that's why, even me.

• 1:28:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:24Speaker 02

  I'm watching it and I'm the inappropriate guy, you know, and my dad goes, how the fuck do you say what you say? And I don't understand. I go, you know, I said, honestly, do you want to know? Because I'm not ultimately mean. I don't want, I don't want to fucking hurt, I don't want people to feel less than I do.

• 1:28:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  But I watch Chappelle and even me, I'm like, oh, fuck.

• 1:28:47Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:28:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he watched that line. He gets out there and walks that line, but he dances around it and he makes it beautiful comedy.

• 1:28:53Speaker 02

  I appreciate it so much, because without him, we're all fucked.

• 1:28:57Joe Rogan?

  And he's the way to find out if a comedian's a cunt. Like, if a comedian doesn't like Chappelle, they start shitting on Chappelle, like, oh, okay.

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  Then you know he's a cunt.

• 1:29:04Joe Rogan?

  You're a piece of shit. You're a piece of shit. You're just a garbage human.

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  Have you ever met anybody like that?

• 1:29:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of these.

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  He's not a real comedian.

• 1:29:12Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of-

• 1:29:12Speaker 02

  He's an asshole.

• 1:29:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a lot of like-

• 1:29:15Speaker 02

  That's not comedy.

• 1:29:16Joe Rogan?

  activist comedians, and what they are is really not talented, so they've glommed on to this idea of like, being like socially conscious, and that's more important than the humor itself. But nobody wants to hear you preach. Nobody, nobody thinks that your opinion is better than theirs. This is what I always say. Like, if you go on stage, you have an opinion. Like, other people have an opinion too. Like, if you go on stage and say, you know, I think Kamala Harris would be the greatest president of all time, a lot of people are like, well, I don't agree. But you have to have a way to make it funny so that they laugh. The people that disagree with you laugh. Like, I don't even think this guy's correct. But goddamn, that's funny. And that's the way you can introduce an idea into someone's head that maybe would never accept that idea. It was just opinions.

• 1:29:55Joe Rogan?

  So if someone's on stage and they're just saying opinions, like, you could, you could disagree with that opinion, it'll frustrate you, and you, you can't talk, you don't have your- But if that guy can take that opinion and that perspective and make it funny, then you're forced to acknowledge that he has a point. Like, there's something in there, like, I don't even agree with that, but fucker, goddamn, that was good. Goddamn, that was good. And that's the real-

• 1:30:19Speaker 02

  It liberates, man.

• 1:30:20Joe Rogan?

  That's the real Chappelle art. That's what he really does.

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  I mean, not that we'll stay on this forever, but remember Eddie Murphy when he did, what, not the first, not Raw, but-

• 1:30:28Joe Rogan?

  Delirious.

• 1:30:28Speaker 02

  Delirious.

• 1:30:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah, well, he was a fucking powerhouse, man. To this day, that is the guy that I just wish I was friends, I was friends with his brother, um, Charlie.

• 1:30:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:40Joe Rogan?

  Uh, but I wish that guy, I wish he would come back. You know, I know he got like some weird stuff where he got arrested with transsexuals in his car, and so like, whatever.

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  So did other people.

• 1:30:52Joe Rogan?

  Whatever. He's just too good. He's too good. He's too good. Do you ever see when, uh, he, he gave a speech, he got like, I think it was like one of those Mark Twain awards or something like that? And he did stand-up, like, where he hasn't done stand-up in forever, but he was talking about Bill Cosby having to give his awards back?

• 1:31:07Speaker 02

  And, no.

• 1:31:10Joe Rogan?

  Cause you know, he does an amazing Bill Cosby impression.

• 1:31:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I remember.

• 1:31:13Joe Rogan?

  And so he, he, he did stand up and it was as sharp as ever. I'm like, goddamn, if this guy came back.

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  And it was just off the cuff? It was something that?

• 1:31:21Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure he prepared.

• 1:31:21Speaker 02

  No, I'm sure he prepared, but nobody really knew he was gonna do it, right?

• 1:31:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, they knew he was gonna give a speech.

• 1:31:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:31:26Joe Rogan?

  And his speech was essentially stand up.

• 1:31:27Speaker 02

  Was stand up.

• 1:31:28Joe Rogan?

  You know, his acceptance speech was-

• 1:31:29Speaker 02

  Like twenty minutes or fifteen minutes to stand up?

• 1:31:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and it was fucking great. And there was all these rumors that he was gonna start doing it again. I remember Charlie told me that Dave was thinking about doing it again, or that Eddie was thinking about doing it again, but he never did it. He never did it. Never. I think it's just too heavy.

• 1:31:44Speaker 02

  We need comedians. I mean, that's like the theme of this whole thing. It's whether you're talking about Hunter, whether you're talking about this. It's just too bad that they self-destruct, whether it be from drugs or fame or whatever. And you know what I mean?

• 1:31:56Joe Rogan?

  It's hard, man. It's, it's hard to maintain. And then once you make it, there's these weird pressures.

• 1:32:02Speaker 02

  But it breaks up the status quo of this contraction, especially that we're fe- I know that's why people moved to Austin. It was just like, I'm fucking sick of being told to think a certain way.

• 1:32:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's why comedy in Austin works so well.

• 1:32:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:17Joe Rogan?

  Because we all moved here at the same time. We all moved here in twenty twenty. Like, I was, I was here because, well, Ron White moved here first. And Ron White is a dear friend of mine. And he moved here before the pandemic. And Ron was like, I don't wanna live in LA anymore. I, I fucking love it here. There's no traffic. Fucking food's great. Fucking people are nice. I can travel. I fly. I'm in the center of the country. I can fly anywhere real quick.

• 1:32:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:32:41Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, damn, could I live in Texas? Like, I don't know about that. And then COVID came. And, um, right, like, my wife was kind of interested a little bit, but then when the riots started happening in LA, then she got really scared. She got very, like, it was a lot of, like, home invasions. There was a lot of crazy shit that was happening.

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  Where's she from originally?

• 1:33:00Joe Rogan?

  Uh, she was from Colorado.

• 1:33:02Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, so not an LA-born.

• 1:33:04Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no. And so she lived in LA with me for a while and we, we were happy. You know, we lived in Bell Canyon, which was like outside of LA. It's nice, peaceful, had a little land, coyotes and hawks and shit. Yeah, well, for me, it was okay because- I had quiet where I lived and then I could drive into the Comedy Store.

• 1:33:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:23Joe Rogan?

  And I loved it. But then when they shut the Comedy Store down, they shut everything down and the rise. And I was like, baby, they're not gonna let us go back. This is like, these fucking cocksuckers have control now.

• 1:33:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:32Joe Rogan?

  And that's what they like. That's why they became politicians in the first place. They like telling people they can't work. They're they they have a grip on society and they're gonna fucking keep this grip. We gotta get the fuck out of here.

• 1:33:42Speaker 02

  So did you move sight unseen? Did you move just, did you just come?

• 1:33:47Joe Rogan?

  I came looking for.

• 1:33:49Speaker 02

  You came and you hung out for a while?

• 1:33:50Joe Rogan?

  Looking to see if I could deal with it. We took like a few days off and we flew to Austin with some friends who were also thinking about doing it.

• 1:33:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:33:56Joe Rogan?

  None of them wound up moving here. A couple of them moved to Dallas.

• 1:33:59Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:33:59Joe Rogan?

  Uh, but we we came here and then um, one of the things that helped, my daughters were 10 and 12 at the time. They were real young and they were real confused about what was going on in LA. It was spooky.

• 1:34:09Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:34:10Joe Rogan?

  You know, you had to wear a mask everywhere and that freaks kids out. Like it's just, it's freaky.

• 1:34:14Speaker 02

  It had a major impact on kids.

• 1:34:15Joe Rogan?

  No masks.

• 1:34:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:16Joe Rogan?

  You go to restaurants and we had this great real estate lady and this great, she's a good friend now. And she took us to see, we wanted to see this house and she took us on a ride on a boat.

• 1:34:26Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:34:26Joe Rogan?

  She had a friend to take us on the lake. We go on the lake, people are playing Leonard Skinner, they're jumping in the water, they're laughing and singing. And in LA, everybody's thinking like the world's gonna end. There's demons in the air.

• 1:34:36Speaker 02

  I was in, I was in New Mexico and I was out on a hundred thousand acre ranch.

• 1:34:42Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:34:43Speaker 02

  Right? And we were doing outer range. We were doing the first season of our show and we were tested every morning. And when I was out in the middle of nowhere, I mean with like good 15 mile an hour winds. You'd have somebody come up, if I put my mask down to talk, you'd have somebody go.

• 1:35:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:06Speaker 05

  Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck and the person who drives it, well, that's a Chevy person. You probably know one, your buddy, your sister, ones who always show up, they're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something and maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet, together let's drive. Visit chevy.com/truck to explore the lineup.

• 1:35:33Speaker 02

  And I'd be like, there's not, we're in the middle of nowhere.

• 1:35:36Joe Rogan?

  Also, it doesn't even work.

• 1:35:38Speaker 02

  It doesn't work.

• 1:35:39Joe Rogan?

  It's stupid.

• 1:35:39Speaker 02

  The mess, I'm, I'm not even saying that I have a certain belief system or anything, but in that moment.

• 1:35:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, provable that they don't work.

• 1:35:47Speaker 02

  Provable.

• 1:35:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And people lost their fucking minds and it was a stress test. And so we came out here, I bought a house like quick. And I was here.

• 1:35:56Speaker 02

  Is it still the same house you have now? Really?

• 1:35:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we, we looked at the house in May, I was living in it in August and we were here. And then my kids started going to school out here, they loved it. I loved it right away. We were performing and then, uh, we were doing shows inside where everybody's like, this is crazy. You guys are doing shows indoors. Cause Texas didn't give a fuck. They're like, do shows like, like a couple of months after COVID, they're like, eh, open it up.

• 1:36:23Speaker 02

  And so what are the numbers of people who got COVID? You know, I've never had COVID.

• 1:36:27Joe Rogan?

  You never got it at all? That's crazy.

• 1:36:28Speaker 02

  I never got it. I don't know if that's a blood type. I don't know. What is that?

• 1:36:32Joe Rogan?

  Maybe you're healthy.

• 1:36:33Speaker 02

  Maybe I have it right now. I have a bit of a cold right now.

• 1:36:35Joe Rogan?

  Maybe you have it. The new COVID is a joke. It's like, I, I, well, we used to test every day. We used to like, everybody that came in, cause I wanted to be compliant. I wanted people to be all safe. People were flying out here to do podcasts. I wanted to make sure that they're.

• 1:36:47Speaker 02

  You're not a dick.

• 1:36:48Joe Rogan?

  And so we tested everybody before every show. And one time I came in and I had the sniffles and I was like, maybe it's COVID, maybe it's COVID. And the nurse was like, actually you have COVID. I was like, no way. I'm like, this is the new COVID. But I had it once and like famously got in trouble for saying that I didn't get vaccinated, but I got healthy. And those, the CNN attacks and all that shit. And then, um, the second time I got COVID, it was literally sniffles. And it was gone in like a day or two.

• 1:37:13Speaker 02

  So were the numbers different in Texas than anywhere else?

• 1:37:16Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 1:37:17Speaker 02

  I'm curious.

• 1:37:17Joe Rogan?

  The numbers are all like the, the, the real people that got sick are the people with comorbidities. That was the real issue. It, it, what it exposed is metabolic health.

• 1:37:25Speaker 02

  Because I have a brother in law who was in New Orleans and the epicenter of it, and it was the beginning of his residency and all that. And he was like, oh, bro.

• 1:37:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it fucking existed.

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  It was fucking gnarly.

• 1:37:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. If you're really unhealthy, COVID fucked you up. If you're really fat in particular, there was something about the way it reacted.

• 1:37:42Speaker 02

  African Americans too, he said.

• 1:37:44Joe Rogan?

  That's a vitamin D thing.

• 1:37:45Speaker 02

  That's a vitamin D.

• 1:37:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, you know, African Americans, the reason why they're so dark, the melanin is to protect them from the sun. And melanin in in white people, the reason why they're so pale is because it acts as like a fucking solar panel for vitamin D.

• 1:37:59Speaker 02

  It's a sponge, right?

• 1:38:00Joe Rogan?

  The melanin actually protects them from the sun's damage and but it also makes it more difficult for them to get vitamin D. So my friend did his residency in New York and he said during the wintertime, uh, we would do blood panels on people and they would have undetectable levels of vitamin D.

• 1:38:15Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:38:16Joe Rogan?

  And this is the reason why people get sick in the winter.

• 1:38:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:18Joe Rogan?

  You're covering up, you're indoors most of the time, you're not getting any vitamin D, you're not getting any sun. If you're not supplementing, and not just with vitamin D, by the way, you have to mix vitamin D with K two and magnesium. That's the most effective way for your body to process it. If you're not doing that, your immune system is shit.

• 1:38:33Speaker 02

  It's not that you're giving, you're not a living Petri dish and you're giving each other the thing because you would do that in the summer too. But the minute you go outside and you get that a vitamin D and you get that sun, it's burning it away.

• 1:38:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, you're out in the sun, you're healthier, you're supposed to be outside. We're not designed to be locked up in fucking cubicles and fluorescent lights all day. It's not normal.

• 1:38:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:55Joe Rogan?

  So it's not healthy. And if you don't do something to mitigate that and to counteract that, your your metabolic health is going to suffer. If you're not fit, if you're not healthy, if you're overweight, if you're not eating well, if you're not taking vitamins, all those things are a huge factor that was completely ignored. And the narrative was like, no, you need this novel injection that we haven't tested on anybody. We're gonna fucking shoot it in every baby, every kid, every pregnant woman.

• 1:39:21Speaker 02

  Did you ever take one?

• 1:39:21Joe Rogan?

  No, I almost did. I didn't think it was a bad thing. Look, this whole pandemic is through education and talking to doctors and also through my experiences. It completely changed my concept and my thought about the medical system. When the vaccine was first available, I was more than willing to get it. In fact, the UFC allocated like a hundred and fifty vaccines for all their employees. And we were doing these COVID shows where there was no audience. So we would do it at the Apex in Vegas where the UFC has their own small arena. And we'd have the fights there and you'd go and get tested. I would get tested in Austin. I'd fly to Vegas and then they'd test me again and you weren't supposed to go anywhere. You just stayed in your hotel and then you showed up and did the fights.

• 1:40:04Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:40:05Joe Rogan?

  And then they got the allocations of the vaccine and I called up the doctor and I said, hey, uh, I'm here, uh, uh, for the fights. Can I get vaccinated? They said, sure, come on in. And then when I got there, I called the doctor and said, actually, you have to go to the clinic. We have to do it at the clinic. Can you go on Monday? And I said, I can't. Um, I have to go back to Austin, but I'll be back in two weeks for the next fights and we'll do it then. They said, great. In that two weeks, they pulled the vaccine because people were getting blood clots. And then also during that two weeks, two people that I knew had strokes. Like one guy was in his 50s and one guy was in his 40s.

• 1:40:39Speaker 02

  Immediately following the vaccination?

• 1:40:41Joe Rogan?

  Within days of the vaccine, got strokes. And I had a bunch of friends that had complications. One friend who has a pacemaker. I have a second friend now that has a pacemaker. And there was all these things that just kept happening.

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  A pacemaker that they'll have for the rest of their lives?

• 1:40:55Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. It depends on whether or not your heart heals, like how bad the damage is. But his heart would stop, it would stop beating for like nine seconds at a time.

• 1:41:03Speaker 02

  Wow, man.

• 1:41:04Joe Rogan?

  And he would just faint and he was falling down.

• 1:41:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:41:07Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, you know, Dr. Drew's talked about this, about the, he believes that's what happened to a lot of people that, uh, got boosted. A lot of people like after the booster, like there's some, something that would happen where your heart would just stop beating for a while and you'd blackout and then it would start up again and it, you know.

• 1:41:24Speaker 02

  Because it wasn't proven. It wasn't a proven thing. But then again, how many of them are proven? Because, you know, let's, what, you said, what, 72, 73 shots?

• 1:41:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's a different kind of vaccine.

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  No, but I understand that, but there's still vaccines.

• 1:41:37Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:41:37Speaker 02

  And you go, why so much more now? Is there that much more disease? It's money. It's all based in money.

• 1:41:42Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I'm not an anti-vaccine person, but like I subscribe to Robert F. Kennedy's perspective, like they should all be tested. They should be safety tested and they're not.

• 1:41:51Speaker 02

  But it comes down to this thing, like we were talking about working out. It comes down to this thing where you go, listen, the medical community I can use for certain things. The holistic community I can use for certain things. Why do I have to deny one just to be full in on the other?

• 1:42:06Joe Rogan?

  Right, exactly. Well, it's just a narrative that they put out there that medicine and pharmaceutical drugs are the most important thing and everything else is bullshit.

• 1:42:14Speaker 02

  Everybody should take OxyContin.

• 1:42:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:21Joe Rogan?

  Help you feel better. You'll feel better. Just like, ah, I feel better.

• 1:42:24Speaker 02

  You don't have to do anything. You don't have to feel bad about it.

• 1:42:27Joe Rogan?

  So when we came here, um, that was the thing was like, everybody who came here was kind of like, fuck this. And then there were so many of us that Ron talked me into opening up a comedy club. I remember Ron.

• 1:42:39Speaker 02

  You opened your own.

• 1:42:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Ron went on stage, like for the first time in like months, like I think it was eight months. And he grabbed me by the shoulders, like right after he got, I mean, he fucking crushed. He goes on stage, he has this giant standing ovation. He crushes and he comes off stage, he grabs me by my shoulder, he goes, whatever the fuck we have to do, we're gonna keep doing this. He goes, you gotta open up a club. I go, okay, I'm gonna open up a club.

• 1:43:04Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 1:43:05Joe Rogan?

  And then I just started looking at club spots.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  How often do you do it?

• 1:43:09Joe Rogan?

  Almost, I mean, every week.

• 1:43:11Speaker 02

  Every week.

• 1:43:12Joe Rogan?

  Last night, three times. I went out, I did three sets last night.

• 1:43:15Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:43:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm constantly working. Yeah.

• 1:43:18Speaker 02

  Do you know Robert Rodriguez?

• 1:43:20Joe Rogan?

  The, the director?

• 1:43:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:21Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't know him personally.

• 1:43:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's who I'm doing. I'm at the Paramount Theater tonight.

• 1:43:27Joe Rogan?

  I love that guy.

• 1:43:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love him. I've done one, I've known him for thirty years.

• 1:43:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'd love to meet him.

• 1:43:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:32Joe Rogan?

  But, uh, no, I, I love his work, though.

• 1:43:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, super good guy.

• 1:43:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:36Speaker 02

  And he plays at Antoine's a lot.

• 1:43:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, Anton's.

• 1:43:39Speaker 02

  Anton's.

• 1:43:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's uh, Gary Clark Jr.'s place.

• 1:43:43Speaker 02

  Is it?

• 1:43:43Joe Rogan?

  Yes, my friend Gary.

• 1:43:45Speaker 02

  I didn't know it. So my wife knows Gary's wife really well.

• 1:43:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my wife knows Gary's wi- wife really well.

• 1:43:50Speaker 02

  Oh shit dude, I met somebody on the plane who sat next to me, so I flew from New York.

• 1:43:55Joe Rogan?

  They, they sent a picture to my wife.

• 1:43:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:43:58Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:44:00Speaker 02

  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Bentley?

• 1:44:03Joe Rogan?

  I don't know the di- the guy's name. I don't know the guy.

• 1:44:05Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no. The guy that I met on the plane today.

• 1:44:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:08Speaker 02

  He said, what are you here doing? I said, oh, I'm gonna see Brolin this afternoon. I'm doing Paramount Theater tonight. And he said, oh, that's so funny. And he didn't talk to me the whole flight. And he said, my son Bentley went out with Rosie.

• 1:44:20Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that's what it is. Yes, that's what it is. So he sent a photograph to my wife. Yeah.

• 1:44:25Speaker 02

  Cause I took a photograph.

• 1:44:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so I saw it today, right when I was leaving. My wife shows me the photograph.

• 1:44:29Speaker 02

  Fucking funny.

• 1:44:30Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 1:44:31Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 1:44:32Joe Rogan?

  Small world.

• 1:44:32Speaker 02

  Really small world.

• 1:44:33Joe Rogan?

  Super, super small world.

• 1:44:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:35Joe Rogan?

  But yeah, so yeah, Gary's wife and my wife are good friends.

• 1:44:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:39Joe Rogan?

  So.

• 1:44:39Speaker 02

  I've never met Gary.

• 1:44:40Joe Rogan?

  Ah, he's the best.

• 1:44:41Speaker 02

  Man, I love him.

• 1:44:42Joe Rogan?

  He's the best.

• 1:44:43Speaker 02

  I mean, that's.

• 1:44:43Joe Rogan?

  That's another artist.

• 1:44:45Speaker 02

  A true artist.

• 1:44:45Joe Rogan?

  That's an artist. I mean, he's an artist.

• 1:44:47Speaker 02

  Another true artist. I was just with him. Uh, I did his video. I was asked to do a lot of videos and I've never done a video cause I've never wanted to do a video. The idea of doing video seems weird to me. You're like, you know, singing somebody else's song or something like that. But, uh, Chris Stapleton, who's been a friend for a long time. So we were in Martha together. Has he?

• 1:45:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I love that guy.

• 1:45:07Speaker 02

  One of the greatest fucking guys. He and Morgan, one of the greatest people. So yeah, we were together over the weekend in Martha, Texas.

• 1:45:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's fucking cool.

• 1:45:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was awesome.

• 1:45:16Joe Rogan?

  There's, I mean, and Gary's another guy that I knew back in LA. I met Gary at the Comedy Store.

• 1:45:21Speaker 02

  Doesn't he still live in LA?

• 1:45:22Joe Rogan?

  No, he lives here.

• 1:45:23Speaker 02

  Oh, he does? All the time?

• 1:45:25Joe Rogan?

  Yep. And that's the same thing. Like, when I talked to Gary about it, I go, why'd you move to Texas? And this was back when I was still living in LA. He goes, man, fuck that.

• 1:45:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:45:32Joe Rogan?

  Fuck that place. Fuck everything about that place. I don't like it. I don't feel good there.

• 1:45:37Speaker 02

  We haven't moved to Austin. I've spent a lot of time here. I love it here. My mom's from Corpus Christi. I've spent a lot of time in Texas. I'm gonna eat Whataburger while I'm here.

• 1:45:46Joe Rogan?

  Ha.

• 1:45:47Speaker 02

  And, but I, you know, we moved to Santa Barbara recently and it's one of those things. It's just like, there's the thing about LA when you don't need, because you can do so many things remotely. And you go, why am I here?

• 1:45:59Joe Rogan?

  Right. Right. Why am I here?

• 1:46:02Speaker 02

  Like, I embrace this staunch thing of I'm a Californian and I loved going to New York and seeing how proud people were in New York. And I'd go back to California and I'd say, I wanna be the one proud person that's in California.

• 1:46:13Joe Rogan?

  There was proud people in LA for a while.

• 1:46:15Speaker 02

  There were.

• 1:46:16Joe Rogan?

  We were all proud that we were LA comics.

• 1:46:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:18Joe Rogan?

  There were, LA comics were like a different thing than New York comics.

• 1:46:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:46:22Joe Rogan?

  Cause New York comics were all like for themselves. They were all kinda shitty and backstabbing. And at the Comedy Store, we had a real community. There was like.

• 1:46:31Speaker 02

  And that's the best thing. And what you've done is recreate it. Like, even when I talk about a chopper community, that's what it is. It's a community that you can rely on.

• 1:46:39Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:46:39Speaker 02

  Regardless of belief system or anything like that. You go, but that guy has my back.

• 1:46:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:46:44Speaker 02

  That guy will walk through fire for me.

• 1:46:46Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:46:46Speaker 02

  That guy wants me to do well.

• 1:46:48Joe Rogan?

  That's your people.

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  That's my people.

• 1:46:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:50Speaker 02

  And that's the same thing with that.

• 1:46:51Joe Rogan?

  All my people moved out here. They moved out here with me. So we had like sixteen top shelf comedians move out here in the first two years.

• 1:47:00Speaker 02

  That many?

• 1:47:01Joe Rogan?

  There's so many clubs out here. There's five clubs on the street where my club's on.

• 1:47:04Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 1:47:05Joe Rogan?

  I bought the old Ritz Theater.

• 1:47:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:07Joe Rogan?

  So that's the comedy mothership now. And down the street, there's a Sunset Club that my friend Brian owns. And that's a club. That's like five doors down from me.

• 1:47:14Speaker 02

  So all these are new clubs that's happened in the last four years?

• 1:47:17Joe Rogan?

  The Vulcan was already there. That was the club that we started working at when we came here. That's down the street from me. That's only like a block away. And then there's the Creek in the Cave, another comedy club that's only like two blocks away. There's a bunch of them just on this one street.

• 1:47:31Speaker 02

  What if I move here and open a club and just do monologues? Do you think people will come?

• 1:47:35Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:47:36Speaker 02

  Different night.

• 1:47:36Joe Rogan?

  If it's good.

• 1:47:37Speaker 02

  Ladies and gentlemen, this one's from Sicaria.

• 1:47:39Joe Rogan?

  If it's good, people would go. They might. You look, man, you fucking really have a passion or something.

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  This is the weird artsy city, which I love.

• 1:47:48Joe Rogan?

  It's a great artsy city.

• 1:47:49Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:47:49Joe Rogan?

  It is. There's a lot of fake artists or just cunts.

• 1:47:51Speaker 02

  I know there, but there is everywhere.

• 1:47:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a lot of posers. But that's all people that just like like the idea of them being the one who decides what's real and what's not real. Just goofs. You're always gonna have that. There's a lot of that that hated us when we came here. But really what they didn't like is that you couldn't just fuck around anymore. The real killers were here now. The real top shelf, like national headliners, guys like Tom Segura and Tim Dillon and these animals moved into town.

• 1:48:19Speaker 02

  So this is like a new hub?

• 1:48:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's the hub of the world for comedy. The comedy mothership is the hub of comedy in the world.

• 1:48:26Speaker 02

  That's wild.

• 1:48:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And it just just opened two years ago.

• 1:48:29Speaker 02

  That's cool.

• 1:48:30Joe Rogan?

  It's packed every night. It's it's awesome. Like Dave came down like opening week. It was incredible. And no one knew he was there. So I did a set and then after I did a set, I I I introduced him and everybody just went fucking ape shit. And we're like, it's up. Like the club's rolling now. Now it's really happening. And then all these people were coming in from all over the country. And a bunch of people moved here. And there's People move in here constantly. Shane Gillis moved here and all these guys moved here.

• 1:48:57Speaker 02

  So it's still happening.

• 1:48:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:49:01Joe Rogan?

  We're talking about opening up another club because it's we're so packed every night and we have so many comics. We almost have too many comics and not enough room.

• 1:49:09Speaker 02

  Has the place grown a lot in the last four years? Other than people, yeah, but you see it gentrification of it or just like things that you got, no?

• 1:49:17Joe Rogan?

  You see a lot of tech bros have moved here because, you know, Google moved here and Facebook and.

• 1:49:21Speaker 02

  I remember when Jesse James moved here, which was a while ago.

• 1:49:24Joe Rogan?

  He moved here a long time.

• 1:49:25Speaker 02

  Long time ago, but I remember when he moved from Long Beach. And he called me and he was like, it's fucking great.

• 1:49:30Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking great. It's better. I just never will live in a place that has traffic ever again. I'll never live in a big city. Austin's like a million people. There's a million on the outside and a million in the city. It's nothing. It's easy. It's easy to get around. People are friendly. They're just like real people. There's no one here that's like connected to that machine that that that forced compliance.

• 1:49:56Speaker 02

  Why do you think that feeds into your art? Like to me, being in L.A. when everybody's talking about what's your status right now?

• 1:50:07Joe Rogan?

  All people care about is are you killing? Are you going on stage and fucking killing? Are you doing your best work?

• 1:50:14Speaker 02

  Are you doing it, period? Are you doing your best work? Like, do you care?

• 1:50:19Joe Rogan?

  Are you really working on it? Are you really?

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  Are you just another affectation?

• 1:50:23Joe Rogan?

  And if you're at that club, you have to be working on it because there's too many people that are working on it. There's too many killers. You can't just be lazy. You won't survive. There's too many killers.

• 1:50:32Speaker 02

  I want to go to this club.

• 1:50:33Joe Rogan?

  Anytime. Go tonight. If you want to come tonight.

• 1:50:35Speaker 02

  Well, I got this thing to do.

• 1:50:36Joe Rogan?

  What's your thing? What time is it?

• 1:50:37Speaker 02

  I don't know. Eight? Seven?

• 1:50:39Joe Rogan?

  We have a seven o'clock show and a ten o'clock show.

• 1:50:41Speaker 02

  Really? Maybe I'll come afterwards.

• 1:50:43Joe Rogan?

  Come after, come hang out. Jelly Roll was there last night.

• 1:50:45Speaker 02

  Really? Was he really?

• 1:50:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:47Speaker 02

  That's cool.

• 1:50:47Joe Rogan?

  Jelly Roll's the man. He's here all the time. He's always hanging out here.

• 1:50:50Speaker 02

  Do you have my book?

• 1:50:51Joe Rogan?

  I do not.

• 1:50:52Speaker 02

  You don't?

• 1:50:53Joe Rogan?

  No, I do not. No one sent it to me. They did, it probably went to a publicist or someone.

• 1:50:57Speaker 02

  I was gonna bring a book for you.

• 1:50:59Joe Rogan?

  I'll buy it. Josh Brolin. From under the truck. Why, why from under the truck?

• 1:51:05Speaker 02

  What do you think?

• 1:51:06Joe Rogan?

  Is that's where you were drunk, passed out?

• 1:51:08Speaker 02

  That's where my mom's boyfriend was drunk and passed out. But it has this, to me, I chose it because it has a double entendre that when you're under a truck, you're either fixing it or getting run over by it. Hence my life.

• 1:51:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:51:21Speaker 02

  I'm either getting run over by it or fixing it.

• 1:51:24Joe Rogan?

  How did you sort it out? Cause you're so together now.

• 1:51:28Speaker 02

  Am I?

• 1:51:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think you are.

• 1:51:30Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:51:30Joe Rogan?

  You're fun.

• 1:51:31Speaker 02

  Thanks, man.

• 1:51:32Joe Rogan?

  Fun people are together. If you can be fun, you're together.

• 1:51:34Speaker 02

  I think I'm at that place, I found a place that you have always been at that I didn't have. I had the opposite, where you go, no, I didn't do cocaine because, and forget the drugs, it's the mentality. I didn't do cocaine because it would kill me. And I would go, oh, that stuff will kill you?

• 1:51:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:52Speaker 02

  Let's, let's just walk that line. I always wanted to walk that line. And I had a mother that walked that line. The, the book is very mother heavy. Very, very mother heavy. And it wasn't intended to be, it just turned out that be, my, my, that's why I wanted to, fuck, I wish I had a book.

• 1:52:06Joe Rogan?

  No worries.

• 1:52:07Speaker 02

  I wanted to read you a section of the LSD thirteen year old LSD thing. Because it's fun. Yeah, it's juicy.

• 1:52:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:16Speaker 02

  You like juicy stuff.

• 1:52:17Joe Rogan?

  I do.

• 1:52:18Speaker 02

  And I wanna read you juicy stuff.

• 1:52:20Joe Rogan?

  Thirteen LSD is so wild. That's such a crazy, mind blowing experience for a thirteen year old to have.

• 1:52:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Can you imagine? Cause you look at, I mean, I had, I had kids when I had my first kid, I was twenty years old. And I was looking at fourteen years in prison.

• 1:52:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:52:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:36Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 1:52:38Speaker 02

  So I, that's why I didn't, I missed my shot out there. I was surprised. It's Johnny Cash, there's.

• 1:52:45Joe Rogan?

  We're gonna order it. Find, find Josh Brolin's.

• 1:52:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. See if it's in there. I think there's a couple.

• 1:52:51Joe Rogan?

  Get a big mental print of it.

• 1:52:52Speaker 02

  Not that I'm proud of it, but, um.

• 1:52:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's part of your life and it's why you're you today, because you've gone through shitty experiences.

• 1:53:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I don't know if they're shitty. That's what I haven't, I haven't decided whether they're shitty or whether they're necessary for this person to get to this place. And not everybody gets to that place. So we're talking about all these people like Hunter S. Thompson. Hunter S. Thompson is my mother, man. Just did, she wasn't a good writer.

• 1:53:18Speaker 02

  But everything that you, the song.

• 1:53:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:53:20Speaker 02

  That was my mom. My mom had a loaded nine millimeter at her bedside table all the time. She was part of the, what was the scam that went on in the eighties? The pyramid scam?

• 1:53:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  Remember that? She was one of the top five winners of the pyramid scam.

• 1:53:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:53:35Speaker 02

  She could talk anybody into anything. So she would come home, literally, man, with bags, with grocery bags full of cash.

• 1:53:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:53:45Speaker 02

  Dump it out and she'd say, "Count."

• 1:53:47Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 1:53:48Speaker 02

  So I would sit there and.

• 1:53:50Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:53:51Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? And she'd put them in. I finally found, I think she had hidden some in her dresser and there was like a loose board that she, right, took away and put money in there. And I found it and bought some drums.

• 1:54:03Joe Rogan?

  When my grandmother died, we found stuff like that in her house because my grandmother went through the depression.

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:54:08Joe Rogan?

  And so everybody, they all like stockpiled money. So she had coffee cans.

• 1:54:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:13Joe Rogan?

  Filled with money that she had like tucked away in like different areas of the house that we found after she died.

• 1:54:19Speaker 02

  Right, right. It's kind of great.

• 1:54:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:21Speaker 02

  The mentality of like.

• 1:54:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, the mentality that you grow up or you literally might starve to death. There's no food.

• 1:54:27Speaker 02

  There's no way that can affect you and that's the whole point.

• 1:54:30Joe Rogan?

  No way.

• 1:54:30Speaker 02

  There's no way that somebody can have that mentality if every cent means something.

• 1:54:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:54:35Speaker 02

  And we have to hide it unless somebody else takes it or whatever. With my mother, it was always looking for the most vivid experience. And I don't know why that was. Her parents weren't like that. It's just how she was.

• 1:54:46Joe Rogan?

  How she was wired.

• 1:54:47Speaker 02

  And then you either have my brother, I don't know if you have siblings or not, but my brother dealt with it totally different. My brother imploded. So he lives his life as simply as you can possibly live it. Whereas me, it was, my reaction was.

• 1:55:00Joe Rogan?

  The other way.

• 1:55:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  So, so how now and why? I don't know. I don't know.

• 1:55:08Speaker 02

  Forty-five years old. It feels like a good age to go, okay, do I want to? Don't wanna go Nick Nolte or do I wanna go?

• 1:55:15Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:55:16Speaker 02

  And I can do that, easy, you know?

• 1:55:19Joe Rogan?

  Nick used to date Vicky Lewis, who was on news radio with me.

• 1:55:23Speaker 02

  No way?

• 1:55:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:25Speaker 02

  I didn't know that.

• 1:55:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:26Speaker 02

  I remember Vicky, wow.

• 1:55:27Joe Rogan?

  Super talented.

• 1:55:28Speaker 02

  Super talented.

• 1:55:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, could sing, could act, she was, she was a firebrand.

• 1:55:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:33Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, Nick, you, we used to hang around the set and it was always so weird to me to be talking to Nick Nolte. It was so strange. Yeah. And I'm like, I remember one time I went to Fry's Electronics, cause I was going to buy some comput- I used to make my own computers.

• 1:55:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:48Joe Rogan?

  Cause I was like really into like computer games, so I'd like build my own computers.

• 1:55:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:53Joe Rogan?

  And so I'm there like looking at motherships and I see this fucking old guy with his glasses on, and I go, I go, Nick goes, "Oh, hey, Joe, how are you, man? Do you know anything about these things?" And like I was talking to him about like computer stuff, but I just couldn't believe he knows my name. That he remembered me.

• 1:56:10Speaker 02

  He saved my life, man. He saved my life at twenty-five, I was...

• 1:56:14Joe Rogan?

  Bro, there's a terrible movie called Warrior, it's a terrible movie, terrible movie.

• 1:56:18Speaker 02

  You mean the UFC movie with Tom Hardy and?

• 1:56:21Joe Rogan?

  That movie sucks, but he's fucking incredible in it.

• 1:56:25Speaker 02

  He's amazing.

• 1:56:25Joe Rogan?

  His one scene, this one scene where he breaks down, you know, he's the dad.

• 1:56:29Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:56:29Joe Rogan?

  It's so fucking good. It's so good, that one scene is worth sitting through the entire preposterous movie.

• 1:56:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Why do you hate that movie so much?

• 1:56:39Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's fake. You can't have, you can't fight like two days in a row.

• 1:56:44Speaker 02

  Wasn't the Tyson-Jake fight, wasn't that amazing?

• 1:56:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's amazing they got paid so much money for that.

• 1:56:55Speaker 02

  Twenty-five million and forty million?

• 1:56:57Joe Rogan?

  I think twenty and forty, yeah, I think that's what I'd heard. You know, which I'm, I'm happy Mike got the money and I'm happy that he didn't get hurt. That was my fear that it was gonna be a real fight and he was gonna get hurt.

• 1:57:06Speaker 02

  You've known him for a long time, I've known him for a long time.

• 1:57:09Joe Rogan?

  I love that dude.

• 1:57:09Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 1:57:10Joe Rogan?

  And he was a like larger-than-life figure of my childhood.

• 1:57:13Speaker 02

  Truly.

• 1:57:14Joe Rogan?

  When I was a kid, when he was the champ, it was like, people don't understand what a champ he was. Like he was a, he wasn't just the heavyweight champ of the world, he was a- Executioner, like you.

• 1:57:24Speaker 02

  Truly.

• 1:57:24Joe Rogan?

  Every fight was just a matter of how long was it gonna last?

• 1:57:27Speaker 02

  Fight it was that I went to go see a couple of fights and I actually went to go see Julio Cesar Chavez fight. And that's when I met Tyson in the green room. At the same time, Muhammad Ali in the green room.

• 1:57:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:57:40Speaker 02

  That was a moment.

• 1:57:41Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:57:41Speaker 02

  As a boxing fan, that was a real moment. But I remember, and I don't know who it was, and I think it was a 90 second fight, and I went to go see this fight and Tyson was fighting. And this guy was doing this stuff. Before, and he had this cut, he had built himself into confidence. And Mike came out afterwards, he was the first one, obviously. And Mike came out afterwards and I watched his face. I didn't watch Mike. You would normally watch Mike because he's so charismatic and he's coming, you want to see what he's gonna do. And I watched the guy's face and I watched that confidence bleed from his face.

• 1:58:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:16Speaker 02

  Instantaneously.

• 1:58:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:17Speaker 02

  He had absolutely lost the fight long before Mike had ever gotten in the ring.

• 1:58:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I maintain that in the time where he was champion, like the two or three years where he was at his best, he's the greatest fighter of all time.

• 1:58:28Speaker 02

  Of all time.

• 1:58:29Joe Rogan?

  Of all time. I don't think anybody.

• 1:58:31Speaker 02

  That's why it was so interesting to me as I was watching it and I'm very verbal when it comes to that shit. Come on, what the fuck?

• 1:58:40Speaker 02

  And he was, he's still quick.

• 1:58:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:43Speaker 02

  He's still quick.

• 1:58:44Joe Rogan?

  He's still very quick.

• 1:58:45Speaker 02

  And he would do these things.

• 1:58:46Joe Rogan?

  Like, he was walking with a cane just like a year and a half ago.

• 1:58:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, but he was really out of shape.

• 1:58:51Joe Rogan?

  Bad sciatica.

• 1:58:52Speaker 02

  Bad sciatica.

• 1:58:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:53Speaker 02

  I didn't know that.

• 1:58:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, real bad. You know, it wasn't that long ago that he was, you know, I mean, when I first met him, he was very, very heavy. He was not working out at all and I asked him, how come you don't work out? He goes, I don't want to ignite my ego.

• 1:59:07Speaker 02

  That's.

• 1:59:07Joe Rogan?

  He goes, I don't want to ignite the gods of war.

• 1:59:09Speaker 02

  The gods of war, yeah.

• 1:59:11Joe Rogan?

  And then the second time he came in, uh, was when he was preparing for the Roy Jones Jr. Fight.

• 1:59:16Speaker 02

  Came in here?

• 1:59:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and he was a totally different human being. He was fucking jacked and in shape and he looked super intense. And he was just like ready to go. And it was terrifying. It was like, and Jamie.

• 1:59:28Speaker 02

  Wait, when was this?

• 1:59:29Joe Rogan?

  Few years ago, four years ago, four years ago. And so when he came in the second time, I was like, this is, Jamie said it afterwards. He's like, that's a totally different human being than the first time we saw him. He was one of the first guys, like, like I said with Nick Nolte, he was like, is that really Nick Nolte? This is crazy. Can't believe he's right there. Mike Tyson was one of the first people that I met that I can't believe he's really here. Cause just like, he was so iconic. Like you had to be alive and be a kid during the time where he was the champion to understand what he was. Cause there was, after Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes was a great fighter, but no one liked him because he beat up Muhammad Ali. So people always just wanted him to lose.

• 2:00:08Speaker 02

  The only reason there was, there's just a certain air of somebody and they come along once in a great while.

• 2:00:14Joe Rogan?

  Yes, but Larry Holmes never got his due. He was an amazing fighter.

• 2:00:18Speaker 02

  Amazing fighter, but still.

• 2:00:19Joe Rogan?

  But when he retired, then there was just like a series of boring champions. Like no one cared about the heavyweight division at all. No one cared. And then, uh, the cover of Sports Illustrated, I still, I have it framed in my office at home. It said Kid Dynamite on it. And he was nineteen years old. And I was like, who is this guy? And then I started watching him fight. And then he was fighting on like ABC Wired World of Sports. You're like, Jesus Christ.

• 2:00:43Speaker 02

  Do you find yourself going back and watching highlights just to do it?

• 2:00:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. I watched Tyson fights all the time. Yeah, I just, I just watched this fight with Frank Bruno just a couple of days ago. Oh my God. Tyson was something, just, I just don't think you can maintain that. You can only do that for a few years.

• 2:01:00Speaker 02

  Never worked out with like, do you remember the fight with him and Bone Crusher Smith?

• 2:01:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 2:01:05Speaker 02

  Not a great fight.

• 2:01:06Joe Rogan?

  No, wasn't the best fight.

• 2:01:07Speaker 02

  Bone Crusher Smith was not a great fighter.

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, he was a good fighter. He's just a tough guy. But, you know, brutal knockout puncher. It just wasn't at Mike's level. Mike was at a level that no one was at. It was just, it was an insane combination of discipline, talent, incredible coaching, uh, psychology. You know, when he was thirteen years old, he was adopted by a guy. It was a hypnotist. Cus used to hypnotize him.

• 2:01:34Speaker 02

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 2:01:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, hypnotized him with the time he was thirteen. And he.

• 2:01:39Speaker 02

  Into being the greatest fighter?

• 2:01:40Joe Rogan?

  Being the greatest fighter. And he told him, you don't exist. Only the task exists. And the task was just destruction.

• 2:01:48Speaker 02

  Did Mike tell you that?

• 2:01:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:01:49Speaker 02

  I've never heard him say that. Does he say that to other people?

• 2:01:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, he said it publicly. He's talked about it. Yeah, he talked about the hypnosis. The hypnosis, they, he started doing it when he was 13 years old.

• 2:01:58Speaker 02

  So what's the parallel between, and this is the last thing I'll interview you about. What's the, what's the thing between Tyson and John Jones? Who I met once and I looked at him when I met him on a plane and he didn't give me really the time of day. But I was like, I'm a huge fan and I don't say that often to a lot of people.

• 2:02:16Joe Rogan?

  He probably gets that all day long, you know?

• 2:02:18Speaker 02

  I'm sure he does, man. It's no doubt. Special fighter.

• 2:02:21Joe Rogan?

  It's conquerors. That's what it is. Like, they're both conquerors. Like, I, I had this thing that I put up on my Instagram the other day that somebody made. It was a, me talking about, trying to explain why John exists. That there's people that are just different. They're wired different. And they, they are uncommon amongst uncommon men. They just, they rise to the top of the top.

• 2:02:42Speaker 02

  They're the black op of their profession.

• 2:02:43Joe Rogan?

  Dominate. They just dominate. And that's John. He's just the greatest of all time.

• 2:02:48Speaker 02

  It's exciting to watch.

• 2:02:49Joe Rogan?

  He's 37 years old and he's still the greatest.

• 2:02:52Speaker 02

  I mean, watching that fight, watching, watching, you know, Tyson or Jake Paul or whatever. Jake Paul, I wouldn't even want to say Tyson, and then going the next day and watching that fight. Watching those fights. It wasn't the only fight. The one before was, uh, what was his name? The fight before John Jones.

• 2:03:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Charles Olivera and Michael Chandler. Yeah, incredible fight.

• 2:03:13Speaker 02

  Great fight.

• 2:03:14Joe Rogan?

  Incredible fight.

• 2:03:15Speaker 02

  Amazing fight.

• 2:03:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, John is a, he's a special dude. When he's gone, we're all gonna miss him. He's a different kind of guy. I mean, he's been at the top for 14 fucking years. He won the title, the youngest guy to ever win a UFC title, 23.

• 2:03:28Speaker 02

  23.

• 2:03:29Joe Rogan?

  And Mike was the youngest heavyweight champion of all time at 20, which is really crazy.

• 2:03:33Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 2:03:34Joe Rogan?

  But when John Jones won that title at 23, it's just been destruction of everyone ever since. Every, never ducked anybody, fought all the best, destroyed everybody, dominated his division. Went up to heavyweight, dominates at heavyweight.

• 2:03:49Speaker 02

  So why does somebody like that self-destruct? Is that a self destruction?

• 2:03:53Joe Rogan?

  Cause he's a wild motherfucker. That's how you get to be that good.

• 2:03:56Speaker 02

  Isn't that what we're talking about the whole time? Is we're talking like whether it's Hunter S. Thompson and this? And how you walk that line. Mike Tyson spending whatever 350, 400 million dollars. Going to jail, whatever that is.

• 2:04:07Joe Rogan?

  Wild. But that's also what makes you so good, that wildness. Jon Jones, when he fought Mauricio Shogun Hua for the light heavyweight title when he was 23 years old. He opens up the fight with a flying knee. Nobody does that. You're fighting a legend. Shogun at that time, when he was the light heavyweight champion. He was a legend. And not just a legend from the UFC, but a legend from Pride. Pride was this gigantic organization in Japan that Shogun really became famous. So he was a like a mythical creature almost in MMA circles. He was, that was Shogun Hua. He was a beast.

• 2:04:40Speaker 02

  Conor McGregor and Jon Jones.

• 2:04:43Joe Rogan?

  Jon's in a different category.

• 2:04:45Speaker 02

  It's a different thing.

• 2:04:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Conor self-destructed, you know.

• 2:04:51Joe Rogan?

  In a lot of ways because of money. You know, I mean, he took that fight with Floyd Mayweather, made a ton of money off that. And then took a long time before he came back to MMA and has just not been the same guy since. And I think that's just. It's money, it's a lot of partying, but it's the same kind of thing. It's just a wild, but in his prime. When, when Conor was in his prime, he was fucking assassin. He was a fucking assassin.

• 2:05:16Speaker 02

  But it's that thing, that through line of not being able to let go. It's like what you were talking about Chappelle. Chappelle leaves for 10 years, but then he goes to the park and he does a thing. There's a thing that's insatiable, that warrior mentality.

• 2:05:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but there's a difference because physically you can only fight for so long. Comedy, you get better every year. If you keep doing, Dave's better now than he was a year ago. He'd be better two years from now than he is now.

• 2:05:38Speaker 02

  Rodney Dangerfield eventually.

• 2:05:40Joe Rogan?

  Rodney, when I saw him, he was probably 70 years old and he was murdering in his fucking bathrobe, naked.

• 2:05:45Speaker 02

  With this schlong hanging out.

• 2:05:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was. He was still amazing because it's not a physical thing. You don't have like, your body can only compete at the highest levels for so long. Which is one of the things that's so extraordinary about John.

• 2:05:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05:58Joe Rogan?

  Cause he's 37, he still competes at the highest level.

• 2:06:01Speaker 02

  It blew my mind the other night.

• 2:06:03Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 2:06:04Speaker 02

  It was exciting. It was nice to be excited about something.

• 2:06:06Joe Rogan?

  Steve Bayes passes prime unfortunately, and he's got a lot of wear on the tires and it was kinda rough watching him get beat up like that.

• 2:06:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:13Joe Rogan?

  But that's the game they play. That's the sport.

• 2:06:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, and what's great about UFC that I never thought would last in the beginning, the great thing is anything can happen.

• 2:06:22Joe Rogan?

  Anything can happen. Yeah. Frank Fertitta and Lorenzo Fertitta always said that every fight, every UFC, we sell holy shit moments. That's, that's what he said. Like there's moments in a fight where you're like, holy shit. You look around at each other and everybody like.

• 2:06:36Speaker 02

  Dude, nobody does it better than you. When you do this, you go back and you're thinking, you go, oh, and your eyes are this big.

• 2:06:41Joe Rogan?

  We always did that, but then they started putting cameras on us.

• 2:06:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:06:45Joe Rogan?

  And I don't know why, when they started doing that. Yeah, we always did that. Every time something would happen, we would throw our.

• 2:06:51Speaker 02

  Because it's, it's organic. It's like you can't help it. That's what I'm doing at home.

• 2:06:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:55Speaker 02

  Holy fuck.

• 2:06:57Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit. Yeah, holy shit.

• 2:06:58Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 2:06:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's moments where you're just like, you can't believe it's really happening.

• 2:07:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:03Joe Rogan?

  That's the sport. The sport is, it's the craziest sport. It's the highest consequences of any sport. It's just, it's so raw and dangerous and you can't look away. It's so crazy. And when someone can dominate it, like John Jones or George St. Pierre or Mighty Mouse or any, any of the greats.

• 2:07:19Speaker 02

  George St. Pierre, another great one.

• 2:07:21Joe Rogan?

  Greats. When they, when they can do that, it's like, that's a different kinda human being. It's just, I mean, to be the best of the best people. The best people in the world are fighting and then he's the best of the best people.

• 2:07:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:33Joe Rogan?

  And when George was in his prime, it was that same sort of thing. You would see him stand there like, this intense look in his eyes, just couldn't wait to get his fucking hands on that guy. You're like, god damn. It's, you, I feel very, very, very, very fortunate that I've been able to witness personally so many of those moments.

• 2:07:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:50Joe Rogan?

  And be there to watch greatness so many times.

• 2:07:53Speaker 02

  I think it's great that you've continued. It's surprising to me.

• 2:07:57Joe Rogan?

  I love it.

• 2:07:58Speaker 02

  I know you do, and that's why you continue to do it.

• 2:08:00Joe Rogan?

  I did the first like 13 of them for free.

• 2:08:04Speaker 02

  First thirteen ever?

• 2:08:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the first thing I did, the one, no, there was already, it was like UFC thirty seven.

• 2:08:09Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, when you got into it.

• 2:08:11Joe Rogan?

  I started working at UFC twelve. I did, UFC twelve was the first event that I did in nineteen ninety seven. I was the post-fight interview guy.

• 2:08:17Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:08:18Joe Rogan?

  And so I did that for a couple of years, but it was banned from cable. It was basically like-

• 2:08:24Speaker 02

  That's why I said it was going, it kinda went like this and then it was going down.

• 2:08:28Joe Rogan?

  Boxing did it to them. Boxing in cahoots with Budweiser, which is funny because now Bud White sponsors the UFC.

• 2:08:33Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 2:08:33Joe Rogan?

  But they all wanted the MMA thing to go away. Because it was so exciting and crazy, they thought of it as a threat.

• 2:08:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:40Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, they, they essentially banished it. It also just had this unsavory look to it. You're fighting in a cage.

• 2:08:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:08:48Joe Rogan?

  Back in those days, it was bare knuckle.

• 2:08:49Speaker 02

  Bare knuckle.

• 2:08:50Joe Rogan?

  You know, and then, um-

• 2:08:51Speaker 02

  It was bloody, it was, yeah.

• 2:08:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was just crazy, it was like, they would call it human cockfighting.

• 2:08:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:56Joe Rogan?

  You know, which I always found was disgusting. But me, as a martial artist, the question was always, what would happen if you got a judo guy and he fought a wrestler? What would happen if you got a boxer and he fought a karate guy? What would, and the UFC was like, let's find out.

• 2:09:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:09Joe Rogan?

  You know, so Horian Gracie came up with this concept.

• 2:09:11Speaker 02

  That's what I was gonna say, Gracie was one of the first judo versus jiu-jitsu, right?

• 2:09:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, Hoist, you know, and Hoist was the first champion of the UFC. And he was the first guy to introduce that like technique is more important than everything.

• 2:09:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:09:24Joe Rogan?

  Technique is more important than being big, more important than being strong. Because Hoist was like a hundred and seventy-five pounds, he was very slight and long and-

• 2:09:33Speaker 02

  I remember the fight.

• 2:09:34Joe Rogan?

  Just a jiu-jitsu wizard.

• 2:09:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:36Joe Rogan?

  And he would get guys on the ground, strangle the fuck out of them, and we were like, what happened? This is crazy.

• 2:09:40Speaker 02

  That's another holy shit moment, yeah.

• 2:09:42Joe Rogan?

  All of a sudden the big jack guy's tapping, you're like, what? What happened?

• 2:09:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:09:46Joe Rogan?

  And Hoist just opened up the world to Brazilian jiu-jitsu. And it made Brazilian jiu-jitsu like the most popular martial art on earth.

• 2:09:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:53Joe Rogan?

  Like his appearances in the UFC changed the entire course of martial arts. His family, the Gracie family, particularly his father, Ilio, his brother Hickson, his brother Hoiler. They, and Horian, of course, because he created the UFC, they changed martial arts forever.

• 2:10:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:08Joe Rogan?

  That like more, more development and evolution of martial arts has taken place over the last thirty years. Years than over the last thirty thousand years. Yeah, like really that's accurate. Like fighting is different. People really understand what works and what doesn't work now.

• 2:10:23Speaker 02

  And watching him was balletic. It was like a ballet. Was like, it wasn't, it was art.

• 2:10:28Joe Rogan?

  It's real martial arts. No.

• 2:10:30Speaker 02

  It wasn't.

• 2:10:31Joe Rogan?

  His dad told him, don't hurt these people. Don't hurt them. You don't have to hurt them. Show them the art.

• 2:10:37Speaker 02

  Just submit them.

• 2:10:38Joe Rogan?

  Show them the art, yeah. So like Hoist, when he got on top of people, he wasn't like elbowing them, the eyeballs. He was just strangling folks, just arm barring folks, making them tap, making them quit. And, and he did it to everybody and they were all like, what the fuck just happened? And then everybody had to learn jiu jitsu. Changed martial arts forever.

• 2:10:55Speaker 02

  Do your kids do jiu jitsu?

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my kids have done it, yeah.

• 2:10:57Speaker 02

  Have done it?

• 2:10:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they don't do it anymore. They do other stuff. I don't push them. Whatever they're in, if they wanted to do it tomorrow, they said, I'm thinking about doing some kickboxing. I'm like, let's go, where you wanna go? But I don't believe in, everybody's different. I don't want them to follow my footsteps or anything stupid like that. I want you to be your own human being. What are you interested in? They're both interested in different things. My youngest is an artist. You know, my other one is a phenomenal athlete. It's like, I think that you should do what you wanna do. And if you wanna do that, I'll bring you. I'll, I'll show you, I'll teach you. I'll help you. But if you don't wanna do that, I don't wanna push you.

• 2:11:31Speaker 02

  Let me be a good parent and celebrate what my kid is, not what I want.

• 2:11:35Joe Rogan?

  There's so many different kinds of things you could be interested in life and everyone has a different psychology. So everyone has different things they gravitate towards. It's just like, what is the thing? Is it music? Is it art? Is it your writing? What do you like to do? Find that thing, chase it down.

• 2:11:50Speaker 02

  How many kids do you have?

• 2:11:51Joe Rogan?

  I have three. I have a grown, she's twenty eight, and I have a sixteen and a fourteen. I feel like you've gotta do what, what, what compels you, what drives you. And part of it as a parent is like, there's so many stories of parents, particularly with like talented athletes. That were too hard on the kid and put too much discipline on the kid and the kid's burned out. I've seen so many cases of that, you know, with these sideline parents.

• 2:12:18Speaker 02

  That Asian mentality. Not here, but there.

• 2:12:22Joe Rogan?

  Kill the joy. You know what Hoist Gracie's dad used to do? If he lost a competition, he would buy him a present.

• 2:12:30Speaker 02

  Because what was the psychology?

• 2:12:32Joe Rogan?

  Because they're always gonna wanna win.

• 2:12:34Speaker 02

  Meaning the effort, he bought the effort, he bought the present for the effort?

• 2:12:37Joe Rogan?

  No, no, it's like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Like here, you have a toy. Here's a, here's a gift. Here's a thing. Like it's like, this is just growth. It's just, just development. Ho- Hoise's dad, Ilio, felt like you live the same life over and over and over again until you get it right. He subscribed to that like ancient eastern philosophy of reincarnation. Like he really believed you will live the same life over and over and until you get it right.

• 2:13:05Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:13:05Joe Rogan?

  And so, his philosophy on the way he's kids.

• 2:13:09Speaker 02

  Do one percent better a day. Just do one percent. Just give you, it's not about going from here to here. It's not living at a hundred percent all the time.

• 2:13:15Joe Rogan?

  It's the process.

• 2:13:15Speaker 02

  It's the process.

• 2:13:16Joe Rogan?

  It's the process, the constant process of growth.

• 2:13:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:19Joe Rogan?

  And, and through that constant process, I mean, what they did was even more crazy because Ilio, along with Carlos Gracie, they revolutionized a martial art. Like they, jiu-jitsu is brought over by these judokas from Japan. Maeda and, and Komuro who came over to America, or came over to Brazil, rather, and trained with the Gracies. And then they took those techniques and made them applicable to smaller people. Made them applicable to like, cause Ilio was only a hundred forty-five pounds. But he would have these no rules fights in Brazil. These fucking huge fights that would go for like an hour and a half.

• 2:13:54Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:13:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And he would just beat these guys with technique. So they developed leverage and they, they figured out a way to highlight the submissions and make things super technical and they would analyze moves and break them down. And it became the philosophy of the entire family. That one family created more fucking assassins than any other family in the history of martial arts.

• 2:14:16Speaker 02

  They're the nicest people.

• 2:14:17Joe Rogan?

  The nicest people.

• 2:14:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I had Hoise in here like a couple of months ago. He was awesome. He's so fun.

• 2:14:22Speaker 02

  You know Sessi?

• 2:14:23Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:14:24Speaker 02

  She's, yeah, girl, she's with Laird a lot. She's at Laird's place a lot.

• 2:14:28Joe Rogan?

  I mean, they have a clan, bro.

• 2:14:29Speaker 02

  It's a clan, but it's a close clan.

• 2:14:31Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:14:32Speaker 02

  And it's a, it's a friendly familial clan.

• 2:14:34Joe Rogan?

  Yep. Yeah, they're very nice people. But that's the thing about jiu-jitsu. It's like you get out all your aggression in the gym. And it kills your ego.

• 2:14:41Speaker 02

  And you can go be kind.

• 2:14:42Joe Rogan?

  You can just be a nice person.

• 2:14:43Speaker 02

  Be a nice person.

• 2:14:44Joe Rogan?

  Jiu Jitsu people are some of the nicest people I've ever met.

• 2:14:46Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 2:14:47Joe Rogan?

  They're super friendly and warm and so normal people.

• 2:14:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:50Joe Rogan?

  They just are obsessed with this one thing.

• 2:14:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, and through that thing, it's like a vehicle for developing your human potential.

• 2:14:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:57Joe Rogan?

  Because it's so difficult.

• 2:14:58Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 2:14:59Joe Rogan?

  And when you do a difficult thing, it makes the rest of life a lot easier. Because there's no way, whatever you're experiencing during the day, is gonna be as difficult as someone on your back trying to strangle the blood out of your brain. Like literally trying to fucking choke the blood out of your head. Like, there's, there's no way. There's no way life could be harder than that.

• 2:15:18Speaker 02

  But that's the thing is the wildness. You have to have something.

• 2:15:22Joe Rogan?

  To be a champion.

• 2:15:23Speaker 02

  To be a champion or to be a good person, I think. You have wildness, which we've talked about throughout this whole thing.

• 2:15:28Joe Rogan?

  If you don't have wildness, you're gonna be boring.

• 2:15:30Speaker 02

  Honestly, because I have to bring it back to the book. That's what the book is about.

• 2:15:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:34Speaker 02

  Wildness unmitigated.

• 2:15:35Joe Rogan?

  Right, but you eventually figured out a way to get a grip on it.

• 2:15:40Speaker 02

  No, but most people, it turns around and it bites you in the ass.

• 2:15:43Joe Rogan?

  Most people.

• 2:15:44Speaker 02

  It's a sad ending.

• 2:15:45Joe Rogan?

  But I think those sad endings are a valuable lesson for the other people.

• 2:15:49Speaker 02

  Power of example.

• 2:15:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you learn from a lot of, one of the reasons why I never did coke is when I was in high school. My friend's cousin became a coke head. He was a coke dealer and became a coke head and him and his girlfriend would just do coke and hide. They were just like, they had an attic apartment. They were in this fucking apartment and were just like doing coke and selling coke and watching TV.

• 2:16:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:09Joe Rogan?

  And he like withered away. He lost all this weight. Like he got bit by a vampire.

• 2:16:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:14Joe Rogan?

  And I remember thinking, Jesus Christ, stay the fuck away from coke. It was terrifying.

• 2:16:18Speaker 02

  Why would you want to do that? What would be attractive about that? Nothing.

• 2:16:21Joe Rogan?

  I guess it's the, I mean, you've done it. I haven't done it. I guess it's the euphoria when you get that hit, you have that feeling, that, that feeling of elevation. You know, that feeling of like, you know, you just know fear and you feel excited. You want to start a business with people and.

• 2:16:39Joe Rogan?

  You got plans, right? We're gonna fucking take over.

• 2:16:41Speaker 02

  I just love in the, in, in, like in the description of it, the eyes kinda get like this and the craziness.

• 2:16:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:46Speaker 02

  And you go, yeah, it's bad for everybody else. It may be good for you for like fifteen minutes, but everybody else is fucking miserable around you.

• 2:16:52Joe Rogan?

  The worst thing to me was when I would be high, like smoking weed.

• 2:16:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:56Joe Rogan?

  And I'd be like just chilled and silly and I'd run into a coke head. And like, oh no.

• 2:17:01Speaker 02

  Who's trying to talk to you like this?

• 2:17:02Joe Rogan?

  I'd just get battered with like talk. I gotta get out of here.

• 2:17:07Speaker 02

  It's disgusting to me.

• 2:17:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a weird drug. It's a weird drug, but it's obviously very popular.

• 2:17:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:13Joe Rogan?

  And causes a lot of problems.

• 2:17:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, no thanks anymore.

• 2:17:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:17Speaker 02

  No thanks, I'm good.

• 2:17:18Joe Rogan?

  Not interested in that one.

• 2:17:19Speaker 02

  You smoke your butt, I'll smoke my cigar.

• 2:17:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I like cigars too. Cigars are conversational.

• 2:17:24Speaker 02

  They are, they are.

• 2:17:25Joe Rogan?

  Tools for conversation.

• 2:17:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:27Joe Rogan?

  They relax you, light your brain up a little bit, get you a little, little fired up.

• 2:17:32Speaker 02

  Read this book when you can.

• 2:17:33Joe Rogan?

  I will.

• 2:17:34Speaker 02

  Seriously, I think you'll like it.

• 2:17:35Joe Rogan?

  I know I'll like it. I like talking to you.

• 2:17:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a, yeah, you'll laugh. You'll laugh. Not everybody will laugh when they read the book. You will laugh. Cause I think you understand absurdity.

• 2:17:48Joe Rogan?

  How long did it take you to put it together?

• 2:17:49Speaker 02

  Two years. It's nonlinear. It goes all over the place in all these years.

• 2:17:54Joe Rogan?

  Did you have, when you sat down, did you have like a framework in mind of how you wanted to pursue it?

• 2:17:59Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:18:00Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 2:18:00Speaker 02

  No, cause I've written probably ninety journals in my life, ninety fold journals, and I would go back and I kinda started to put some of those together and I'd go, oh, that happened in eighty-eight or that happened in seventy-six and that, you know, that kinda stands out as being a milestone moment or whatever. And I'd start to write those down. They were really poorly written and then that started to instigate one thing and another thing and it kind of wrote itself. I think it was four hundred and fifty pages when I finished and then I knocked it down to like two forty.

• 2:18:30Joe Rogan?

  What is that process like, the editing process?

• 2:18:32Speaker 02

  That's a good process. That's the hardest process I've ever gone through, but you become a better writer.

• 2:18:36Joe Rogan?

  Do you do it with an editor or do you do it by yourself?

• 2:18:39Speaker 02

  I did, no, I did it with an editor because I didn't sell the book right away. You know how memoir, first of all, most memoirs are not written by the people who they're about, which makes no sense to me.

• 2:18:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:18:48Speaker 02

  Because you're writing about yourself, but you're hiring somebody else to do it, but you're taking the money. I don't get it. So I wrote it. I wrote the entire book, then I sold it. So I didn't sell it based on a celebrity. I sold it based on the book because you could read the book and what, and some people hated it. Some people read it and they go, I don't get it. It's too wild, it's too whatever. And

• 2:19:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, everything is not for everybody.

• 2:19:11Speaker 02

  Exactly, and that's okay.

• 2:19:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's more than okay.

• 2:19:14Speaker 02

  What's wild is when I, when I, when I was in the middle, which I think you would like, when I was in the middle of doing the audible for the book, about halfway through stumbling through the audible, I go, what the fuck did I do? I should burn any evidence that this fucking was ever even thought about. And then I spiraled for about a month, and I don't spiral, I just don't spiral about everything, anything. I just, I'm pretty cool with anything that, you know, comes along. And then people started reading the book. And then I got this varied response that was always visceral. It was never like, I really liked your book a lot. I thought it was well-written and all that. Somebody would go, fuck.

• 2:19:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:55Speaker 02

  And that's nice.

• 2:19:56Joe Rogan?

  That means you nailed it.

• 2:19:57Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:19:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:58Speaker 02

  I don't know, but I do know that the responses are good.

• 2:20:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what's important.

• 2:20:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:03Joe Rogan?

  It's working. It, it, it had a desired effect. You got out your thoughts, you got out your experiences.

• 2:20:09Speaker 02

  But that editing process, the editing process is a good process because you, you refine and you clarify and you simplify and

• 2:20:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:17Speaker 02

  That's cool.

• 2:20:17Joe Rogan?

  You get to look at it with fresh eyes.

• 2:20:19Speaker 02

  With fresh eyes.

• 2:20:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:20Speaker 02

  You know, it's the arm bar, you could just grab an arm and then try to bend it as much as you can, or you can fucking figure out how to get in there every time.

• 2:20:28Joe Rogan?

  Did you

• 2:20:29Speaker 02

  And tap the guy out.

• 2:20:30Joe Rogan?

  Did you always know that you were gonna do this? You're gonna write this book?

• 2:20:32Speaker 02

  No, I'd written two or three books and put them in the corner, in a dark corner, and let them accumulate dust, you know? I've never, I never thought I would do it publicly. Because I was always into that thing of like, oh, you're an actor and like, get over it. You wanna, you wanna be a writer. You wanna be a writer, you wanna be a musician. Every actor wants to be a musician.

• 2:20:50Joe Rogan?

  Every actor wants to be a rock star.

• 2:20:53Speaker 02

  And I was like nah, and then this lady read this book, this lit agent, and she said, I said it the third time, and she said, you need to fucking stop saying, referencing yourself as an actor who's a writer. You're a fucking writer and a really good writer, just write. And she was tough on me.

• 2:21:09Joe Rogan?

  So you feel like you had like, almost like a disclaimer, like I'm an actor.

• 2:21:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:21:15Joe Rogan?

  That's what you're doing, giving yourself like an escape?

• 2:21:17Speaker 02

  I did, because there was something about that profession anyway, that I always looked at and I was like, why am I, why do I do this? This is dumb.

• 2:21:27Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? And what, like, where's the self-importance come from? Like, what happened to the wagon that just went down and like, people tried to shoot you?

• 2:21:34Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't the self-importance just come from attention? You get extraordinary amounts of attention, then people develop self-importance because of that, because they think they deserve that attention.

• 2:21:43Speaker 02

  Because it's a false thing.

• 2:21:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:45Speaker 02

  And then you start seeing people manifest it, like, excuse me, I said, hot coffee. I didn't say warm coffee. I said, you know, and you go, I don't, I don't understand the mentality. So for me, it's probably another attempt, which I think I've manifested in a bunch of different ways, of right-sizing. And there's nothing like, that will right-size you like a fucking book. Put you right back into, why are you doing what you were doing? Where do you come from? How do you feel about your kids? Where's your sensitivity? Where's your, where are things that have become concrete that you need to break in order to feel again? You know, where are you limiting yourself?

• 2:22:31Speaker 02

  And I don't like the idea of limiting myself. Like, would I love to, did I love drinking? What, fuck, yeah. I had so much fun, dude. And so did a lot of other people. But I go, this is now limiting. Well, don't you wanna go out and take a drink? I go, fuck, no. When you're out with a bunch of people having fun, no, cuz I'm having fun.

• 2:22:51Joe Rogan?

  Right. You don't need to drink to have fun, but there's a thing when you're drinking a lot and having fun, you think this is the reason why I'm having fun.

• 2:22:58Speaker 02

  This is the reason why I'm having fun.

• 2:23:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a trap.

• 2:23:01Speaker 02

  That's the trap.

• 2:23:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:02Speaker 02

  That's the trap.

• 2:23:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, you can have a drink or two and really enjoy yourself, or you could think that the only reason why you're enjoying yourself is cuz you're having a drink or two.

• 2:23:10Speaker 02

  And that's usually why you have more drinks, because you think this is the reason people are liking me right now. This is the reason people think I'm funny.

• 2:23:18Joe Rogan?

  And you keep chasing that dragon.

• 2:23:19Speaker 02

  Imagine if you went on stage and every time you went on stage, you had to have at least six drinks. Cuz you go, this is what they want. And then you wake up in the morning and your kid goes and wakes you up and you're like, ah, fuck.

• 2:23:34Speaker 02

  And you go, ah, that's not worth it.

• 2:23:36Joe Rogan?

  What's the fucking dude's name from Knight Rider? You know I'm talking about.

• 2:23:39Speaker 02

  Oh, David Hasselhoff.

• 2:23:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. You ever see that video?

• 2:23:42Speaker 02

  Of course I did.

• 2:23:43Joe Rogan?

  The kids.

• 2:23:43Speaker 02

  The burger video.

• 2:23:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:44Joe Rogan?

  It's the saddest fucking thing ever.

• 2:23:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it didn't look like a good burger.

• 2:23:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, well, he's just hammered and his kid filmed it.

• 2:23:50Speaker 02

  It's awful, man.

• 2:23:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's so awful.

• 2:23:52Speaker 02

  It's so cringy.

• 2:23:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That's what everybody's afraid of.

• 2:23:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:56Joe Rogan?

  Becoming that pathetic example to children.

• 2:23:58Speaker 02

  And you wonder how much that exists and the video's not going. That, that, that daughter videoed that.

• 2:24:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:24:05Speaker 02

  Like, I want you to see what this looks like.

• 2:24:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:24:08Speaker 02

  And supposedly that kind of threw him into sobriety or whatever. I don't know if he's sober or not. Did he?

• 2:24:12Joe Rogan?

  If, I don't know. I will hope he is. If anything would throw you into sobriety, your children filming you at the lowest moment possible would do it for you.

• 2:24:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I didn't wanna be filmed, so I stopped early.

• 2:24:26Joe Rogan?

  He got off, he got off at the right time.

• 2:24:27Speaker 02

  I did get filmed the last time.

• 2:24:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 2:24:30Speaker 02

  I drank, yeah, it was super lame. I was at a, what do you call it, a Del Taco, and I tapped the cab in front of me accidentally when I was moving forward. And he got out and like created a thing and somebody filmed it from the back of the cab.

• 2:24:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:24:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I looked stupid.

• 2:24:49Speaker 02

  You can't fucking, you can't fucking drive. You don't fucking drive. You're like, oh dude. Shh, quiet. Don't speak.

• 2:24:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh no.

• 2:24:57Speaker 02

  Don't speak.

• 2:24:59Joe Rogan?

  There's nothing worse than being sober and seeing something when you're drunk.

• 2:25:01Speaker 02

  Oh, there's nothing.

• 2:25:02Joe Rogan?

  You're like, oh no, I'm so gross.

• 2:25:03Speaker 02

  Because your perception of it, why you were like, no man, this is an honorable moment. You're saying I did something that I didn't do.

• 2:25:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:25:11Speaker 02

  And we need to hash this out. When the, when the, when the, when the reality is, is you're just kind of regurgitating bullshit.

• 2:25:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:22Joe Rogan?

  Also, you know how to like affect people with your words.

• 2:25:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:27Joe Rogan?

  You know how to express yourself in a dramatic way. And you think you're gonna fucking get through this on top.

• 2:25:33Speaker 02

  I'm an actor, motherfucker.

• 2:25:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, motherfucker.

• 2:25:34Speaker 02

  Watch this.

• 2:25:38Speaker 02

  I'm going Shakespeare on you.

• 2:25:40Joe Rogan?

  You know my favorite movie of yours is?

• 2:25:41Speaker 02

  What?

• 2:25:41Joe Rogan?

  No Country for Old Men.

• 2:25:42Speaker 02

  Why?

• 2:25:43Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's so fucked up.

• 2:25:45Speaker 02

  Cause it's so fucked up?

• 2:25:46Joe Rogan?

  It's such a fucked up movie. It's, and even the end, the end, when it ends, you're like, what happened? What is, that's the end?

• 2:25:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:52Joe Rogan?

  It's like, that guy, what's his name Javier? What's his name? God damn, that guy was a good psycho.

• 2:25:59Speaker 02

  He was so good.

• 2:26:00Joe Rogan?

  God damn, that movie was so, it was just so unusual and intense.

• 2:26:06Speaker 02

  And there was no feeling, and people ask this all the time, there was no feeling that it was a special movie.

• 2:26:11Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:26:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I told you, I went back to Marfa, Texas for the first time in 18 years with Stapleton. And the guy running the bank is the first guy that Javier kills in the movie. This is the guy running the bank right now, Chip.

• 2:26:24Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:26:25Speaker 02

  And I talked to Chip, I have a picture of me and Chip. And I talked to Chip and I said, I said, Buck, you were the first guy, you know, did you think that? And he said, no, that was a friend of a friend who said that they were auditioning people and the reason I did it is because I figured nobody would ever see it. It seemed like a small... No, that's the proprietor. It's the first guy that Javier killed outside. Um, that was a good scene though.

• 2:26:50Joe Rogan?

  What is that dude like a person Javier?

• 2:26:53Speaker 02

  The best. The sweetest human being, one of my best friends.

• 2:26:57Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:26:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:59Joe Rogan?

  That, that's inside of him, that he can...

• 2:27:01Speaker 02

  Well, that's the thing.

• 2:27:02Joe Rogan?

  That's what's...

• 2:27:03Speaker 02

  That's what makes him an artist.

• 2:27:04Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:27:05Speaker 02

  Because he's one of these guys that literally, he was so depressed during that thing.

• 2:27:09Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:27:09Speaker 02

  Oh my god, dude.

• 2:27:10Joe Rogan?

  Cause he didn't like doing it?

• 2:27:12Speaker 02

  No, he was like, look at my hair, what the fuck?

• 2:27:16Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 2:27:16Joe Rogan?

  That's depressed him.

• 2:27:18Speaker 02

  Look at him.

• 2:27:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, he plays such a good psychopath.

• 2:27:24Speaker 02

  He wore SPF 100, he had an umbrella all the time to keep the sun off him. You see how pale he looks?

• 2:27:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:33Speaker 02

  But yeah, that's the guy, the guy to the left, that's Chip. Can you stand there for a second, please?

• 2:27:37Joe Rogan?

  So he was really depressed because of his hair?

• 2:27:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, and me and Woody would take him out. We would take him out to the cowgirl, what was it called, Cowgirl Cafe? And, and we would have drinks with him, we would make him, because he would stay in his apartment with the, like, the drapes drawn and all this kind of shit, he just didn't want to go out. He said, "I don't like, I don't like violence, I don't drive, I don't know why they hired me. Why the fuck did they hire me? Like, why am I here?"

• 2:28:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, how did he pull that out?

• 2:28:02Speaker 02

  And I'm from Spain, like, this guy's not from Spain. I remember when we worked, we sat in a trailer and he said, in that, that proprietor scene, he has this great line, he goes, "Call it." Takes the coin, goes like that, and he says, "Call it." And the guy says, "I don't want to call it." And he says, "You have to call it, it's destiny calling for you." And, and we were in his trailer and Javier says, "How do you say it?" And I said, "Call it." And Javier kept saying, "Call it." And I said, "No dude, call it." Can you hear it? Play. For a whole lot. I'll put the head on.

• 2:28:33Speaker 05

  What's the most you ever lost on a coin toss?

• 2:28:37Speaker 02

  Sorry?

• 2:28:38Speaker 05

  The most you ever lost on a coin toss?

• 2:28:43Speaker 05

  I don't know, I couldn't say.

• 2:28:48Speaker 05

  Call it. Call it? Yes. For a whole lot? Just call it.

• 2:28:56Speaker 05

  Well, we need to know what we're calling it for here. You need to call it. I can't call it for you. Well, it wouldn't be fair. I didn't put nothing up. Yes, you did. You've been putting it up your whole life, you just didn't know it. You know what date it's on this coin? No. 1958. It's been traveling 22 years to get here, and now it's here. And it's either heads or tails. And you have to say, "Call it." Look, I need to know what I stand to win. Everything. How's that? You stand to win everything.

• 2:29:33Speaker 02

  Everything, call it.

• 2:29:39Speaker 02

  All right. Heads then.

• 2:29:47Speaker 02

  Well done.

• 2:29:51Speaker 02

  Don't put it in your pocket, sir. Don't put it in your pocket, it's your luggage water. Where you want me to put it? Anywhere, not in your pocket. What'll get mixed in with the others and become ingesting.

• 2:30:08Speaker 02

  Which it is.

• 2:30:15Speaker 02

  I mean, if you look at that from a different perspective, you say that scene could have been the worst scene ever. It's because of the simplicity of the scene.

• 2:30:26Joe Rogan?

  Just the consequences.

• 2:30:29Speaker 02

  It's the pause.

• 2:30:30Joe Rogan?

  Loom in the air.

• 2:30:31Speaker 02

  It just hangs.

• 2:30:32Joe Rogan?

  And you know that this guy has some sort of weird morals.

• 2:30:36Speaker 02

  It's so good, man.

• 2:30:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's got some code that he lives by, and he's about to impose this code on this guy. And he has no problem putting that bolt through his brain.

• 2:30:45Speaker 02

  No problem, and the guy knows it, and he doesn't even know.

• 2:30:48Joe Rogan?

  Why he knows it.

• 2:30:50Speaker 02

  It's just something that's.

• 2:30:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:53Speaker 02

  And you sit there and you just kind of.

• 2:30:54Joe Rogan?

  Fucking scene.

• 2:30:55Speaker 02

  It's a great scene, man.

• 2:30:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. How did you not know that movie was great while you were doing it?

• 2:31:00Speaker 02

  Because it was so, we were just.

• 2:31:02Joe Rogan?

  The Coen Brothers are fucking amazing.

• 2:31:03Speaker 02

  They're amazing, but you were just having, they had done two movies that were sort of bigger than what they normally do. One was with Clooney and one was with Tom Hanks, and it didn't work.

• 2:31:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Brother Horatow?

• 2:31:13Speaker 02

  No, the fucking Oh Brother.

• 2:31:15Joe Rogan?

  I love that movie.

• 2:31:15Speaker 02

  Amazing. It was amazing.

• 2:31:17Joe Rogan?

  What was the other?

• 2:31:18Speaker 02

  Was Lady Killers and what was the one with Clooney? Well, there you go.

• 2:31:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:25Speaker 02

  Um, but they, yeah, so I think that they just went back to this simple like. Burnt, no, Burnt After Reading was after No Country, which was also really good, super good. But, uh, yeah, they just kinda went back to this very kind of feral. You know, base place and just said, let's just tell this simple story and let's let it happen. Let's maybe, I don't know. I don't think they're like this, but like maybe.

• 2:31:48Joe Rogan?

  How did you not know why you were doing it though? Like these amazing scenes?

• 2:31:51Speaker 02

  It just didn't have that vibe. It didn't have that vibe. It was so simple.

• 2:31:54Joe Rogan?

  Wild.

• 2:31:55Speaker 02

  It was so simple and, and into the wild.

• 2:31:57Joe Rogan?

  But then when you saw it though.

• 2:31:58Speaker 02

  Into the wa- dude, when I saw, I saw it with my kid. Which was probably super irresponsible.

• 2:32:04Joe Rogan?

  How old was your kid at the time?

• 2:32:05Speaker 02

  He was sixteen. He was like, eh, that's on the, that's on the, you know, the cusp. But I saw it with him in an editing room on a big screen.

• 2:32:15Speaker 02

  And we left and we got in the car and we didn't talk for fifteen minutes. And that's never happened.

• 2:32:21Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:32:21Speaker 02

  Like literally not one word.

• 2:32:24Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:32:24Speaker 02

  And then I said, what do you think? And he goes, fuck.

• 2:32:31Speaker 02

  Which is a great response.

• 2:32:31Joe Rogan?

  That's that movie. That is that movie. That movie is fun.

• 2:32:34Speaker 02

  You know, you wanna tie it together too in the end and like a typical Hollywood ending and Javier and my character go head to head at the end and. And that doesn't happen. So you do some, which is how it was written in the book Cormac. And I got to know Cormac really well, you know, I was with Cormac the night before he died and.

• 2:32:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no kidding. Wow.

• 2:32:51Speaker 02

  So, and I asked him.

• 2:32:52Joe Rogan?

  That guy could fucking write.

• 2:32:54Speaker 02

  Fuck dude. Some of the greatest writing, American writing ever.

• 2:32:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:00Speaker 02

  In the history of this country.

• 2:33:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man. There was something about his writing. It was like, Jesus Christ, this guy's.

• 2:33:05Speaker 02

  That's another one of those guys, artists where you go, I would ta- I would ask him about his writing. He didn't wanna talk about it ever. And then finally he got mad at me one day and he was, I, I, I don't fucking know, man. I just sit down at the typewriter and it comes. Like, what do you want me to tell you?

• 2:33:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:33:19Speaker 02

  I was like, alright, man. Fucking eighty seven years old, relax. But he could write. I mean, he had some, he was tapped into. And talk about a guy who just like you were like the muse and do you have a special place? And do you have this thing that? No.

• 2:33:36Joe Rogan?

  Just sits down and writes?

• 2:33:37Speaker 02

  The bed that he was on, it was me, his ex-wife, his son and Cormac. That last night.

• 2:33:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:33:45Speaker 02

  Always at the edge of his bed was that typewriter that he used for twenty-five, thirty years to write all those novels. And then he had one before that that was exactly the same. But that typewriter was on an old piece of wood at the foot of his bed.

• 2:33:58Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:33:59Speaker 02

  And even at the end, he would just grab that thing and

• 2:34:02Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:34:03Speaker 02

  Get it out. It's cool.

• 2:34:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's rare humans like that that have that thing.

• 2:34:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:10Speaker 02

  They just tap into something.

• 2:34:12Joe Rogan?

  And they tap into it and then they just keep going. They get on that path and they just keep going. It just keeps getting better. They just get better at it.

• 2:34:19Speaker 02

  We've talked about a series of very special people.

• 2:34:25Speaker 02

  You know, what makes the, what's the difference of what makes somebody that special, that iconic? Are they crazy?

• 2:34:34Joe Rogan?

  They're definitely different.

• 2:34:35Speaker 02

  They're different.

• 2:34:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, it's a resistance to the norm. It's, it's acceptance of reality. It's a poetic understanding of our place in the universe. There's so many different things that are all sort of coalescing into this.

• 2:34:50Speaker 02

  But they see, they see through a different lens, though. They're just made of a, they're made up of a different

• 2:34:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's probably why he didn't want to talk about it. He didn't want to fuck it up.

• 2:34:58Speaker 02

  He didn't want to fuck it up.

• 2:34:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:00Speaker 02

  He didn't want to mitigate, he didn't want to, he didn't want to lessen it. He didn't want to, what's the word? Make it, make it pedestrian.

• 2:35:06Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:35:07Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 2:35:08Joe Rogan?

  Yes. He didn't want to try, you know, sometimes magic is just magic. You don't want to like figure out what's, how it's happening.

• 2:35:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:35:17Joe Rogan?

  Just know that you can do it and just keep doing it.

• 2:35:20Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 2:35:20Joe Rogan?

  You know, just be, be a craftsman, be a person who's like dedicated to this thing.

• 2:35:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:35:26Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:35:27Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:35:28Joe Rogan?

  He has to know, he had to know it was really good. I mean, enough people told him it was really good.

• 2:35:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, but if you have even a guy like that who wrote the first Up Until All The Pretty Horses, none of his books sold.

• 2:35:40Joe Rogan?

  That's pretty crazy.

• 2:35:41Speaker 02

  Like a thousand people bought it, fifteen hundred people bought it. And then it was made into a movie and then, and then you go back and you're like, all these banned books that we know back in the day, nineteen eighty-four, George Orwell, you know, Henry Miller, all these fucking people. You know, people were like, ew.

• 2:36:00Speaker 02

  And then, how many, you know, Van Gogh, painting a painting and all those paintings being outside getting rained on. And now they're selling for a hundred million dollars.

• 2:36:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, all after he's dead.

• 2:36:10Speaker 02

  All after he's dead.

• 2:36:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:11Speaker 02

  He never knew. He sold one painting in his lifetime, so he never got to, not even a little bit, experience what, huh, look at what you did.

• 2:36:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:36:23Speaker 02

  Wow, man.

• 2:36:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, maybe that's why they're so good.

• 2:36:27Speaker 02

  Cause they had to do it anyway.

• 2:36:29Joe Rogan?

  Expression, you know, he's just doing it.

• 2:36:31Speaker 02

  Paid attention or not, it's who they were and they gave themselves to it a thousand percent.

• 2:36:37Joe Rogan?

  He's an artist.

• 2:36:38Speaker 02

  An artist.

• 2:36:39Joe Rogan?

  A real artist, yeah. Yeah.

• 2:36:42Speaker 02

  Thanks, dude.

• 2:36:42Joe Rogan?

  Thank you. It was a lot of fun. Really appreciate it.

• 2:36:45Speaker 02

  I really appreciate it.

• 2:36:46Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna read your book immediately.

• 2:36:47Speaker 02

  I would like you to.

• 2:36:48Joe Rogan?

  I will definitely.

• 2:36:49Speaker 02

  You're one guy I would really like for you to read.

• 2:36:51Joe Rogan?

  I'll get on it. Alright. Thank you very much. Bye, everybody.