Sam Heughan (2016)

The end of OUTLANDER is at hand but no tears today! We are celebrating the final season by looking back and digging into the archives with Josh's first Happy Sad Confused with Sam Heughan a decade ago! Enjoy this 2016 gem and reminisce with us. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! NordVPN -- EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://nordvpn.com/hsc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Saily -- 🌎 Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code HSC at checkout. Download Saily app or go to to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://saily.com/hsc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at http://huel.com/happy15. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins.

• 1:07Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today, we are celebrating all things Outlander. The show begins its final season. It's eighth season this Friday, March 6th. So we are taking a look back to my many conversations with this cast, including this very first podcast chat with the one and only Sam Hewen.

• 1:30Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out Happy, Sad, Confused. If you've been a listener for a while, I appreciate you. If you're new to the podcast, you're amazing. Thank you. Check out our archives, because there's a ton of great stuff in there, about 700 episodes worth, including many conversations with the cast of this beloved show that is Outlander. There are certain series that have meant a lot to me personally and professionally. And I can say, I can say it because Sam is not in the room. And if he were in the room, I couldn't be serious. But no, in all earnestness, Outlander's meant a lot to me personally and professionally. And it's been such a blast to get to know this amazing cast over the years. So I thought I would celebrate the beginning of the end. As it were, the final season, the eighth season launches on Starz on March 6th.

• 2:14Josh Horowitz?

  By taking a look back, because I've had so many great conversations with this cast. And while many of you have probably, if you're an Outlander fan, if you are Sam Heughan or Katrina Ball fan, you've probably seen my conversations with them. Maybe some have slipped through the cracks, especially early ones. So what we're gonna do today is share with you the very first podcast conversation I had with Sam Heughan. And it's kind of a fascinating time capsule. I listened back to it. And this was, I think, just my second meeting with Sam. And we met for the first time at Comic Con promoting the second season of Outlander. And I immediately loved him and Katrina. We had a great chat there and, you know, certain people you just click with.

• 2:58Josh Horowitz?

  And I knew these people were my people. So I knew I had to have them on the podcast. And I invited Sam on the podcast soon thereafter. And what you're about to experience is an audio conversation. There's no video, I apologize. But back then, we weren't doing video on the podcast. What can I say, you know? But maybe that'll make this all the more intimate. I don't know. But it's also a very different kind of conversation than Sam Heughan and I had in subsequent years. We were just getting to know each other. So I think this is a nice snapshot of Sam and Josh pretending to be professional, which we stopped being at some point over the years. You know, now it's just anarchy.

• 3:40Josh Horowitz?

  And this was like, I'm actually treating him with respect in this conversation, if you can imagine. And he, me, I know. So fascinating, fascinating to listen back to. And it's a bit of a more of a career conversation and a look back at the beginnings of Outlander, his career. So I thought this was a nice treat for those of you that have been along for the ride of Outlander all these years. So this is from 2016. You're about to listen to me and Sam Heughan. Before we get to that, though, a quick reminder, as always, especially true for the Outlander fans out there, patreon.com/happysecconfused has so much good stuff in terms of, we always give early access to all our episodes and bonus materials and merch and autographed stuff, all sorts of discount codes to my live events.

• 4:26Josh Horowitz?

  But especially if you're an Outlander fan, we have some very special bits and bobs that we're gonna put only on the Patreon. As I tape this, I'm getting ready, don't worry, it's not my red carpet look, but tonight I'm going to be hosting the livestream of the Outlander Season 8 red carpet. So we'll have some stuff from that, some other things are cooking. You will be well-fed, Outlander fans, trust me. And we might drop another nostalgia episode very soon. I'm checking out, I'm looking at other stuff in the archives, I might share some stuff with you guys. So, patreon.com/happysayconfused. Anyway, without any further ado, listen up, use your imagination, imagine me and Sam Hearn

• 5:06Josh Horowitz?

  in my cozy little office at MTV back in 2016. This is our very first Happy Say Confused conversation, the first of many. Here's me and Sam Hearn. Enjoy.

• 5:18Josh Horowitz?

  We're diving in with Sam Hearn, it's good to see you, man.

• 5:20Speaker 04

  Hello there, good to be here in sunny New York.

• 5:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's not so sunny.

• 5:24Speaker 04

  Scottish weather.

• 5:25Josh Horowitz?

  You're just saying.

• 5:26Speaker 04

  I brought the weather everywhere I've been on this press tour.

• 5:29Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, is that right?

• 5:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, it rained in Sydney, Tokyo, LA, and now New York.

• 5:34Josh Horowitz?

  You're a harbinger of doom and gloom wherever you go.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  Absolutely, yes, very depressing.

• 5:39Josh Horowitz?

  But we were saying, as we tape this, this is a big week for you guys here in New York, you're taking New York by storm.

• 5:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, I feel like we're taking over New York a little bit. We have our premiere tonight, which is gonna be very exciting, and then we have the Saks store, we have our costumes up, a great display in the windows there.

• 5:59Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 6:00Speaker 04

  And then at the end of the week, it's Tartan Week, so I'm the Grand Marshal this year, very honoured, and I'm gonna be leading the pipes down Sixth Avenue.

• 6:08Josh Horowitz?

  That's probably not something when you're growing up as a kid, you're like, you know, probably one day it's all gonna lead to this.

• 6:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's really odd, actually. Yeah, I never thought that would ever happen.

• 6:15Josh Horowitz?

  So, do you enjoy the, I mean, you've been racking up the frequent flyer miles, traveling the world in support of this, is this, it's work, but is it enjoyable?

• 6:24Speaker 04

  I've had no fun at all, it's been fun as well. No, it's been terrific, you know, I've had a good day off, you know, wherever I've been, and explored in Japan, I went to Kyoto on the bullet train, and... Did lots of fun stuff in Australia. And yeah, this is kind of like the climax, the culmination.

• 6:43Josh Horowitz?

  Is there more comfort this go around in the press tour in terms of after promoting the second season versus when it was new and you didn't know how it would be received, et cetera?

• 6:53Speaker 04

  Comfort. Yeah, we had to do everything by bus last time. They, yeah. And now we're being very well looked after.

• 6:59Josh Horowitz?

  You know, you've made it when everybody gets their own car.

• 7:02Speaker 04

  Exactly. No, we were extremely well looked after. It's wonderful. It's kind of very strange. But I guess what I would say is that we've, we're maybe a bit more used to it now. We like, you know, the first year was definitely a learning curve.

• 7:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Did you, did you, well, first of all, I feel like I owe you an apology. The only other time I met you was you and Cat at Comic Con this past July. And it felt like such a novel idea. Oh, let's play like a know your co-star kind of game, a newlywed game. And then I like look online, like as I'm researching you and like, you've probably played that horrible game like 15 times at least.

• 7:35Speaker 04

  Maybe once or twice, but to be honest, I still lose and I'm very competitive. And I get asked the same questions and I still never know the answer. So normally when's Cat's birthday and what's her favorite food? And I still can't remember.

• 7:48Josh Horowitz?

  So what, um, what do you warn about her on the second go around? Now having worked with her for a couple of years, what do you know about her now that you didn't know in the first season?

• 7:57Speaker 04

  Do you know, it's funny, actually, season two, definitely. I think we've got even closer. And I just, I mean, I'm absolutely overwhelmed about how lucky I am to be working with her. And I think that bond between us is definitely, you know, in the show in season two, it's more complex. It's sort of deeper rooted. And it's like a more of a grown up relationship or more of like a modern marriage in the show. And I think that was also reflected in our personal relationship as well.

• 8:26Josh Horowitz?

  Can you, you know? You could have a drinking game associated with the times chemistry is mentioned in terms of like, you know, co-stars and making it work or whatever. Is too much made of that? Can you, can you like, could a show like this be achieved if you legitimately just didn't get along offset, you think?

• 8:44Speaker 04

  Ah, that's a really good question. Um, cause you do, you go into these chemistry tests.

• 8:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 8:48Speaker 04

  And, uh, I was very-

• 8:49Josh Horowitz?

  It's just an audition, basically?

• 8:51Speaker 04

  It's basically an audition, yeah. Um, and I was very lucky to be involved quite early on in our show. So I tested with lots of, um, very attractive, uh, young ladies. And, um, you know, I felt chemistry with a lot of them. It was, no, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's a funny thing. When you're in it, you don't, uh, you know, you're not aware of what's happening. You're just, you know, um, in the part. And I guess it's for everyone watching to, to look for the chemistry. But I don't, I don't know. What do they look for?

• 9:20Josh Horowitz?

  I, well, I mean, I, what do you recall of meeting her for the first time in terms of like, do you, did, was there something different then versus the other women you were testing with?

• 9:28Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, the only thing I would say is, and is that when she walked in, it was like, oh yeah, she's absolutely perfect. And then, and to be honest, before I knew it, you know, we were doing this very intense scene that, uh, it's in the show, but it's, you know, quite dramatic. And before I knew it, I mean, we were literally getting physical, like sort of tearing chunks out of each other. And I remember at one point thinking, God, wow, she can really give it back. So I think, um, to be honest, I think Katrina just wowed everyone with, you know, her performance.

• 9:56Josh Horowitz?

  So I'm curious, um, like where were you at in your career, in your view on your own career and your like self-worth or whatever, when you got cast in this? What was, what was the, if I was talking to you like the day before you got tested for this, where were you at?

• 10:11Speaker 04

  Uh, it's actually very, very funny. I was, um, I'd been in America for quite a while. I, uh, just finished a pilot season and tested on, uh, about four shows, quite, quite, you know, quite exciting stuff and got really close on things. Um, and then returned back to the UK a little bit despondent and, and actually started doing one of those things that I guess an actor does all the time. Just start going, can I actually do this? You know, I'm not getting any younger and, you know, am I going to be able to support myself in the future? And I actually, it was at a point where I was looking at, you know, having to, you know, go work in a bar or, you know, do that, do that sort of thing.

• 10:46Speaker 04

  Odd jobs, but it's been something, you know, every actor does, especially when you're starting out, you know. And then I got a call to go and audition for this this series and it was kind of just stepping on this roller coaster.

• 10:59Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it does feel like, you know, in the narrative of people like write about you, it feels like overnight success, but you'd been doing this a while. You mean, early thirties when you get this part, right?

• 11:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:08Josh Horowitz?

  So it's like, how did you rationalize that when you started to sort of like see what the press kind of made of you and you're like, well, I've actually been doing this for like ten, over ten years and

• 11:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:18Josh Horowitz?

  Having some successes and maybe not some successes or whatever. I've been on the roller coaster for a while.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, it's it's it is a little bit, but in also a way, it's it's wonderful. You know, you get, it's just absolutely catapulted, you know, my career and changed my life. It's become my life. But I guess, yeah, no, absolutely. I graduated drama school two thousand and three and I've been working ever since, you know, off and on as a jobbing actor. So a lot of theater and, you know, bit parts in in drama. But this is, you know, in a way is very new, but also

• 11:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:50Speaker 04

  I feel lucky that it's come at a time when I I sort of feel I know what I'm doing almost.

• 11:56Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Almost. It's always something to learn.

• 12:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:01Josh Horowitz?

  Was there was there one that got away in the in the years prior that you felt like, oh, this is going to change my life. I'm like in the top, you know, top three or four now and they're about to, I think it's going to happen. And then clear coasting to the top.

• 12:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:15Josh Horowitz?

  Was there one?

• 12:16Speaker 04

  Uh, many. Yeah, many. I've got a long list. I mean, how long have you got? But yeah, and also when you start, when you test on shows and you you get so close and what they do when you do a test is that before you do your test, your your agents, they have to strike, you know, the deal.

• 12:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right. You're signed on to like

• 12:34Speaker 04

  Signed on.

• 12:34Josh Horowitz?

  Three or five years or whatever.

• 12:36Speaker 04

  Money you're gonna get. And always, you know, before you've got the job, you start imagining, you know, how you're gonna spend your money and you maybe even go out and buy yourself something. This is this is great.

• 12:45Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so year three, I guess I'll buy the house.

• 12:48Speaker 04

  I'll buy the house, the car, and that new watch I've been looking at. So, um, yeah, I mean, it is. And I guess, you know, over the years, you You get a bit more aware that this is the process that happens and then actually that you can't let it sort of, you know, take you over. But now I, you know, I'm in a fortunate place where people bring me coffee. It's just like magic.

• 13:11Josh Horowitz?

  That's the dream. Again, when you start out being an actor, the dream is wanting to be on a podcast where someone just brings you coffee when you ask for it.

• 13:17Speaker 04

  Do you know, this guy kind of looks a bit like you.

• 13:20Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:20Speaker 04

  I can't do, probably couldn't allow us to talk about the brand, but.

• 13:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, there's the spectacle man with Benny's haircut on the coffee.

• 13:27Speaker 04

  Maybe you should start your own coffee brand.

• 13:29Josh Horowitz?

  It's my side business. The podcast doesn't pay the bills, man. I gotta do what I can. So in retrospect, did you know what you were getting into when you got involved in this? Does it feel like, I mean, this kind of a thing that engenders the kind of passion and fans does not come along very often.

• 13:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:45Josh Horowitz?

  Did they, did whoever, Ron or whoever kind of explain to you what the ride was going to be like, or can anyone even do that?

• 13:52Speaker 04

  Um, no, they can't. And actually, no, I don't think I knew I was getting into. And I guess, again, you know, going back to being an actor and being that sort of thing, you always play it down and you're always saying, you know, it's not gonna.

• 14:05Josh Horowitz?

  Well, because you've been burned before, probably. Every actor's like had that thing where like, oh, this is going to be the one that clicks.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:10Josh Horowitz?

  So.

• 14:11Speaker 04

  You do a show and then it, you know, it doesn't get picked up or you do series and or whatever. So you're always trying to, you know, not get your expectations too high. And I think it's also been a real learning curve, the show. It's been terrific. And I think that's what's great about it. You know, it's never, it's never going to get tiring or tired because it's constantly changing and reimagining yourself. And certainly our season two is, is almost a completely different show.

• 15:14Speaker 05

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• 15:46Josh Horowitz?

  So, give me the pros and cons of sometimes being objectified. Is there any con? I would feel like I would wish this on myself, to feel like people are judging me by my looks, in a good way.

• 15:59Speaker 04

  How do you mean?

• 16:02Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I would think it's an odd thing. Here's my perspective on this. So, I've been in MTV for many years, and for instance, in a much different kind of a franchise or whatever, but I had many conversations with Robert Pattinson, for instance, in Twilight. And I feel like he had to kind of like ride out this very odd thing where people projected stuff onto him because he was playing this character and there was a disconnect between him and the character. And for you, I would think there is a bit of that where some people see Jamie and not Sam when they see you. Is that something that you've experienced and something that is just, it's fun? Or can it be a little bit of a mindfuck in a way for you?

• 16:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, I suppose I have seen that, which I guess I'm flattered by because I guess it means I've probably done my job. But, and there are other people that I pay money to sort of worry about those things. But, I take it all in good humor and I think it's nice that people kind of so buy into you as a character. But then I guess, you know, there are times when you wish people would sort of see you as the actor and you're not actually that person and you're just playing a role.

• 17:14Speaker 04

  You know, I guess actors always worry that they're going to be typecast or always seen as one person. They start to go against trend or against type, but um, I don't know if that's a good idea or not. I'm not sure.

• 17:24Josh Horowitz?

  Are you seeing that in the things that you've been offered or the things you've been up for since Outlander? Have has it changed and are they interesting or are people kind of like just again, taking at face value this one character you've done and just giving you some more parts to that?

• 17:36Speaker 04

  Initially, yeah, I had I was offered something and it was to play a redheaded Scottish warrior. And here it is. I was like, what imagination you've thought outside the box for that. It was quite a big show, but um, no, it's it's changing as well. And um, yeah, I've had some really interesting things that we're sort of working on at the moment. And yeah, I'm very excited. It's and it's all down to Outlander and the fact that, you know, has got this great fan base and that the show seems to be doing pretty well.

• 18:07Josh Horowitz?

  What were the first, you know, again, we're talking about how you no one can possibly know what they're getting into on something like this. What was the first kind of exposure to fans or in a massive way, in a small way that was kind of like, okay, this is this is not going to be the normal run of the mill experience. This could be something that resonates on a on a massive level.

• 18:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think we did um, a fan event very early on. I think we'd only shot maybe two or three episodes, I think. And we did this fan event in downtown LA.

• 18:38Speaker 04

  I've not even completed those episodes, but we I think we showed them a small trailer and you know, there were people out there, you know, queuing up from sort of, you know, very early in the morning and I guess we didn't didn't expect that. In every way, you know, on Twitter, you know, that also for me, you know, because we're in this bubble in Scotland, we're kind of removed from it, which is in a way quite nice. But on Twitter, you can sort of see or social media, you can see, you know, the the excitement and the anticipation that people have for the show. And I think that's definitely very rewarding when we then get to come to, you know, York and let people, you know, finally see it.

• 19:16Josh Horowitz?

  Is there is there a kind of typical fan or have you been surprised by the breadth of fans and the kind of? Different age groups or whatever.

• 19:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think that, you know, the original book fans are maybe of a certain demographic because, you know, Diana wrote these books 20 years ago. So they've been waiting 20 years. So there, you know, a group of people that probably read those books back then that have been waiting for them to be made. But we've attracted a lot of new fans, you know, even people that haven't read the books, especially, you know, I think the show is just, I think it stands alone. Obviously, we wanted to to represent the, you know, Diana's great book series. But yeah, we've attracted people that haven't, you know, sort of even read the books and then they've gone on to do that.

• 20:01Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and it's fun to also like, I mean, I remember when I first heard about it and, you know, again, yeah, based on the book series or whatever that I frankly wasn't myself knowledgeable about. But then I heard Ron Moore and like, okay, that checks a different box that makes me very intrigued by this. And it's that unique blend that I think is probably expanding your audience beyond maybe what typically you would expect it to be.

• 20:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think our show does appeal to a lot of people because it's it's got so much in it. And I think season two certainly, really, we begin to start to play with the other stuff, you know. Season one is about individuals and, you know, there's the history side and the time travel is, you know, is a factor, but it's not a huge part of the show.

• 20:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 20:41Speaker 04

  You know, and there's obviously this romantic interest as well, but season two really starts to play on a larger scale. And Ron definitely plays a lot more with time and time travel and also the the effects of that. So it does feel a bit like Back to the Future.

• 20:55Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 20:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:56Josh Horowitz?

  Referencing the poster behind me.

• 20:57Speaker 04

  I love that poster, yeah.

• 20:58Josh Horowitz?

  So let's let's talk a little bit about influences growing up, just like what you were into, just what your sensibilities were. Clearly, Back to the Future fan. What were you into? What rocked your world as a kid?

• 21:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, Spielberg, I guess. Definitely.

• 21:11Josh Horowitz?

  Probably not, right?

• 21:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:12Josh Horowitz?

  You were in the right age group.

• 21:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was a big, you know, a big fan of, you know, Indiana Jones and that sort of thing as well. And I guess Bond films, you know, I had, I grew up, we had a black and white television that you had to tune in with a dial. I think we had only maybe four channels, three channels. And we're only allowed to watch one show a night, like strict parent and but it was great. You know, and I so Star Trek for me, and that's obviously Ron, you know, Ron Moore was involved in that Star Trek Next Generation. But also theater, as I got older, it was a big, big influence for me. And I think that's kind of where I got the passion.

• 21:51Josh Horowitz?

  Did anybody in your family, was anybody in your family in the business at all? Or was it today, surprise everybody that young Sam wanted to get on a stage and do this kind of thing?

• 21:59Speaker 04

  Young Sam, they, they are, I have a rather artistic family. So I guess they were quite pleased. But also actually warned me a lot that, you know, this is a career that could be very difficult to get into and you're never going to make any money. And you could be miserable. And but no, it's been great. They sort of kept me grounded.

• 22:18Josh Horowitz?

  So what was the first professional kind of gig? You were acting in school, went to like, when did it kind of like go from fun to potential career?

• 22:28Speaker 04

  I joined a youth theater in Scotland and then I went to drama school, Royal Scottish Academy. I think it's called the Royal Conservatoire now.

• 22:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 22:38Speaker 04

  Sounds very, very classy. Very classy. And I guess that's where it all changed for me. I was very lucky in my second year. I got asked to do a play that was in the Edinburgh Festival and we transferred to London at the Royal Court. And I got nominated for an Olivier Award, which was incredible. And I think that's, you know, the point, you know. So then I got an agent and sort of things started to, to go from there. But yeah, just very lucky to be, to be, you know, chosen or to have that sort of opportunity.

• 23:08Josh Horowitz?

  Was, was the dream to come here to the States or would you have been content to simply work in Scotland, work in UK, wherever? And make your life there because plenty obviously do and can.

• 23:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, actually, you know, I guess as you start to dream bigger, you know, your, your aspirations get bigger. But I initially, you know, was captivated by theater and, you know, learned of who, you know, who was running which theater and what, what plays I wanted to do. And I think that for me was definitely the draw. But then as you get into it, certainly at drama school, you start to, you start to get seen for jobs. You start to. To hear about other success stories and that makes you dream bigger. And I, you know, I do remember, you know, walking down the streets, you know, after school sort of dreaming about being in Band of Brothers or, you know, being in a, in a, in a hit TV show. So it's very strange to actually be back in Scotland. You know, where it all began and be, be in an American TV show.

• 24:02Josh Horowitz?

  Does it, uh, still apply to dream bigger when you're on this scale where you're having phenomenal success with a show that's like, again, really resonating with millions and millions of people? Do the aspirations get higher? Do like, you know, I mean, you mentioned growing up with Indiana Jones and Bond and your name has come up for things like Bond, et cetera, which is cra- I mean, amazing and must be like.

• 24:21Speaker 04

  It's funny, yeah.

• 24:24Speaker 04

  Honestly, I think, I guess, yes. Um, I can't say too much, but you know, I'm having some meetings at the moment. They're all very exciting and

• 24:34Speaker 04

  it feels, it feels like I'm in a moment. Yeah, it feels very lucky. Um, so I guess it does, you know, and it's all down to Outlander, you know, it's certainly opened up a lot, a lot of opportunity and kind of give me a good exposure as well.

• 24:48Josh Horowitz?

  Have you, uh, could you imagine yourself in a superhero movie? I feel like this is the question I have to ask everybody contractually in 2016.

• 24:54Speaker 04

  I think absolutely. I, I've actually played Batman.

• 24:58Josh Horowitz?

  I know, yeah.

• 24:58Speaker 04

  Bruce Wayne in a weird, in a live, actual thing, which, you know, to be honest, I think is, is more difficult than maybe on film because you've literally got your, your quick changes and you're, and you're alive and you can't, you can't mess it up. And it's a very physical show. So, uh, but yeah, I would love another, I'd love another Lycra suit. Pretty cool to hang up in the wardrobe.

• 25:21Josh Horowitz?

  Why not? Um, was, uh, well, I'm curious, like, what's the, so you mentioned like Spielberg today. Are you big? You consume a lot of film, TV? What do you have time for?

• 25:32Speaker 04

  Do you know, I don't, I mean, I try and watch as much as I can. Um, but when you're shooting, it's very difficult, you know, we have long days and then you get home in the evening and you need to, you need to learn scenes for the next day or go over stuff that's coming up. So, you know, downtime is, is, um, is kind of taken up. Weekends I do try and get to, to the cinema. Um, and I do occasionally binge.

• 25:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:53Speaker 04

  But yeah, a mix of things. And actually, you know, on this press tour, I've managed to have a lot of time on airplanes. So I've been catching up.

• 25:59Josh Horowitz?

  Nice. Anything you've binged on at least recently that you were into?

• 26:03Speaker 04

  Binged on Jessica Jones. Yeah, it's amazing. I, I love it. I think it's.

• 26:08Josh Horowitz?

  David Tennant in that, by the way.

• 26:09Speaker 04

  They're all great. Scary. I mean. I didn't realize it was him in the first episode and you just hear his voice and it's quite dark, quite ominous. And I think Kristen Ritter, I actually had the opportunity to meet her the other day and I think she's terrific in the show. We'll be right back with more Happy Sad Confused.

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• 27:34Josh Horowitz?

  What filmmaker would you lose your mind to get in a room with? Maybe you've already met with them or not, but who are the ones that kind of today would fry your brain?

• 27:44Speaker 04

  Ridley Scott, who, you know, I just absolutely love. Or like a Zack Snyder film would be amazing, talking about superheroes. Yeah, but I think Ridley Scott, I've always been a huge fan of the Alien movies. I love that world he's created.

• 27:58Josh Horowitz?

  Have you met Ridley yet? He's doing another Alien movie. He's doing a couple more.

• 28:01Speaker 04

  Ah, he is, yeah. I haven't met him.

• 28:06Josh Horowitz?

  Pregnant paws in the air.

• 28:09Speaker 04

  Turns around.

• 28:10Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, where are you going, Sam? What's happened?

• 28:15Josh Horowitz?

  So, oh yeah, I do want to ask about a little bit more about the Batman thing because I'm just fascinated by that. I didn't know this existed and it must have just been like, I think you said it well, like it's one thing to create in a Zack Snyder thing with $150 million, but to sell that on stage, Spider-Man had a tough time doing it too here in the States.

• 28:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 28:33Josh Horowitz?

  Was that, I mean, would just, can you give me a sense of sort of, was that a fun part to play? Was it an easy part to play? Was it?

• 28:40Speaker 04

  I, I mean, you know, in a way, again, it was one of these sort of moments in your life and, you know, the show, it did okay. We toured around, we did the Staples Center, we did Vegas, we did a lot of Europe, South America. It just, it had this amazing soundtrack. It was recorded by the London Film Orchestra. And that moment when, you know, you walk up the stairs dressed as Bruce Wayne and the lights come up on you. Yeah, it's, it's, it's very powerful. And, um,

• 29:11Josh Horowitz?

  What kind of suit was it? How heavy you like?

• 29:13Speaker 04

  Uh, well, so underneath, you know, you had Bruce Wayne outfit and underneath that you had a full body harness. And then obviously, you know, you have this quick change, which we got down to 20 seconds into the Batman costume, which was this, yeah, I mean, incredible latex rubber, but quite very thick. He was kind of more of a kind of tank kind of Batman. And the cowl, obviously, and you'd, you'd sweat buckets and fly out over the audience. And it was great. I mean, I remember moments of like being in Brazil, like hanging upside down for the second half of the season, just second half of the show, just like waiting to, to fly in and, you know, just hanging above, you know, thousands of people. And it's very odd. But, um, yeah, a great, a great job. And actually, I think I learned a lot from it.

• 29:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:58Speaker 04

  Which I think then I use and agree is just confidence, I guess, and about the power as well, the power of, uh, power of the actor, I guess.

• 30:06Josh Horowitz?

  What, what do you think you'll take from Outlander and hopefully continues on for many seasons? But what are the lessons or what are the skills that you've accumulated here that you didn't have prior that you're gonna?

• 30:14Speaker 04

  Probably the ginger hair. That's like one of them. Um, yeah, I know, absolutely. It's, as I said, it's been a learning curve. It's, uh, it's taught me a lot about not only doing the job, which is, you know, one side of it, sort of technical side and the... Trusting yourself as an actor and learning lines and working in a sort of studio capacity and actually the endurance of it all.

• 30:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:37Speaker 04

  But then the other side as well, I guess, you know, that this press tour and just how all encompassing it is. But it's been, yeah, it's been, it's been a really nice journey to be on and I feel very fortunate.

• 30:51Josh Horowitz?

  Is there stuff that's brought up in the interviews invariably that you kind of like steel yourself against, like parts of the of the show, whether it's the sex or whatever, that you feel like, yes, it's a part of it, but do we really need to go there again? Or are you kind of comfortable with it all at this point?

• 31:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't have a problem with it at all. You know, sometimes it does seem to be the focus of a lot of interviews, but really, you know, I think it's part of the show and it's an important part of the show. And we put a lot of thought and time into those scenes and those episodes and I'm really proud of it. So, yeah, it's good. I mean, the only question is what's under the kill. I think that's always just, it's become, and I still can't think of a good answer, but.

• 31:34Josh Horowitz?

  So my next 12 questions.

• 31:36Speaker 04

  Yes, exactly. Go on.

• 31:38Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, it's not at all.

• 31:39Speaker 04

  You'll find out on Saturday at Tatum Parade.

• 31:40Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly, exactly. So you're excited for, obviously, sharing this season, which has a different look by virtue of Paris, et cetera. Does it feel like it's going in unique, different places than first season? Are the fans going to be enchanted as much as they were the first time around, you think?

• 31:56Speaker 04

  Absolutely. I think they'll be surprised. I think season two really is a different, it has a different feel to the show, a different look to the show, obviously. And certainly, it is, the relationship that Jamie and Claire have is, has changed. They've become, they're in this marriage now. You know, season one was about discovery and about sort of the honeymoon period and newlyweds. Season two is definitely, you know, the more grown up, kind of complex marriage and them dealing with a lot of issues. But it really is, it's a great season. It's got, you know, two counterpoints. The first half is in Paris, in this very sort of high society. And the second half, we're back in Scotland where it's more immediate and there's more blood and mud.

• 32:39Josh Horowitz?

  More your speed?

• 32:40Speaker 04

  More my speed. You know, I think that's the characters as well, you know, then in Paris, they're not comfortable there, there and it's not their world and everyone's kind of a fish out of water. And then Scotland, actually, in a way, in this season, kind of plays, it's very healing in a way.

• 32:56Josh Horowitz?

  And before I let you go, I do want to mention that on your to do list in the near future or semi near future, you're going to be climbing, right?

• 33:02Speaker 04

  Kilimanjaro. Wow, yes, yes, indeed.

• 33:05Josh Horowitz?

  So what's the impetus for something like that as someone that tries to resist any kind of physical activity whatsoever? I'm just curious what goes on in your brain that's different than mine.

• 33:13Speaker 04

  I love, I love challenging myself and I love, I just, being in Scotland, doing the show, I've got a real, found a real enjoyment in going up in mountains and sort of getting out there and certainly the charity that I, event that I created this year, MiPi Challenge, that's sort of an extension of that, trying to encourage people to just, you know, have a bigger horizon, a bigger outlook and a healthy lifestyle and Kilimanjaro for me is, you know, a little challenge and it's just going to be amazing, beautiful.

• 33:44Josh Horowitz?

  Sounds like you're kind of a goal oriented guy, whether it's in terms of like as a kid wanting to, you know, dreaming dreams like that or even today of whether it's in your chosen profession or leisure activities, it's helpful for you to kind of have things to shoot for.

• 33:59Speaker 04

  I think so, yeah. I'm not very good at doing nothing. In fact, yeah, I'm always trying to, I don't know, it's just, I'm always sort of constantly active, though I probably will have a snooze later on today before the premiere.

• 34:10Josh Horowitz?

  Power nap, yeah, definitely.

• 34:12Speaker 04

  But it's, it's great. I love it. It keeps me going.

• 34:16Josh Horowitz?

  Well, we name checked Indiana Jones earlier today. I've got this Indiana Jones fedora here with a bunch of random questions. You're not obligated to answer all of them because that would take five hours.

• 34:25Speaker 04

  There are a lot.

• 34:26Josh Horowitz?

  But answer a few.

• 34:27Speaker 04

  Did you write them all or?

• 34:28Josh Horowitz?

  The good ones I did. We'll save the good ones I did.

• 34:30Speaker 04

  Okay, I'm going to write the bottom here. That's a nice fedora. Okay, there we go. That's a racial. Favorite, they missed off the E. Someone's added it in. Favorite childhood TV show. Favorite childhood TV show?

• 34:48Speaker 04

  Oh, um, actually, there was a British show which no one will know, a cartoon all about Excalibur. A legend, Legends of Prince Valiant, actually. I was kind of obsessed with it. No one will ever heard of it. And it was cartoon all about Prince Valiant and Excalibur and Arthur, and I've always been kind of obsessed by that. In fact, someone should do a movie. Oh, no, they just have.

• 35:09Josh Horowitz?

  They did. Guy Ritchie just did something right. I was gonna say, that's a surprisingly tough nut to crack for Hollywood. Like, they've never really, like, they've, they've tried, they did the Richard Gere, Sean Connery one that didn't.

• 35:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, the best was definitely the Patrick Stewart.

• 35:23Josh Horowitz?

  Well, the Excalibur, that was John Gorman, which was a.

• 35:25Speaker 04

  Just, it's just crazy.

• 35:27Josh Horowitz?

  That's one of those films, like, I don't know what you, what age you saw it, but I saw it, like, probably a few years too young.

• 35:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, myself too, yeah.

• 35:32Josh Horowitz?

  It was a crazy movie.

• 35:34Speaker 04

  It was intense, yeah.

• 35:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 35:35Speaker 04

  I think I saw it, and I must have been around ten, maybe younger, and it was on on Christmas, and yeah.

• 35:41Josh Horowitz?

  And it's like every great British actor is basically in it, that, like, some of them before they did anything.

• 35:46Speaker 04

  Brian Blessed, obviously, just shouting his way through it, which, in fact, every film that he's done is just terrific, made better by Blessed shouting.

• 35:53Josh Horowitz?

  Blessed shouting, exactly.

• 35:55Speaker 04

  Flash Gordon being one of them. Oh, my Flash Gordon.

• 35:58Josh Horowitz?

  You would be a good Flash Gordon.

• 36:00Speaker 04

  Well, you heard it here first, that's why they should remake it. There actually, it was a remake, and I was up for it, um, a long time ago. I can't remember when, but yeah.

• 36:09Josh Horowitz?

  It'll come around sooner or later again.

• 36:10Speaker 04

  Sure, it will. Yeah. The best sitcom of all time is Friends. God, razor's up there as well.

• 36:18Josh Horowitz?

  Razor's pretty good.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  Friends in the UK, you know, it was on all the times, on Channel Four, and I think everyone in the UK kind of grows up with them, and.

• 36:26Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 36:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's kind of our idea of what.

• 36:29Josh Horowitz?

  What American Friends are.

• 36:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, and we all, like, wander around going, where's that coffee shop?

• 36:34Josh Horowitz?

  Central Perk.

• 36:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:35Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, choose your own end, find, find the question that you like.

• 36:38Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, I get to.

• 36:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, wherever you, you know, wherever you feel the natural ending is. I'm putting the onus on you, Sam.

• 36:43Speaker 04

  Okay, I think this might be the last one.

• 36:45Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, let's see it.

• 36:46Speaker 04

  Have I ever been arrested?

• 36:48Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 36:53Speaker 04

  No. No, I haven't. I'm probably a bit of a do-gooder, to be honest. I've made a citizen's arrest. I think it's

• 36:59Josh Horowitz?

  That's right. I heard about that.

• 37:00Speaker 04

  Before, but yeah. But no, I actually am disappointed in myself. Maybe I should.

• 37:05Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 37:06Speaker 04

  Every actor should have, you know, these sort of interesting side and yeah.

• 37:10Josh Horowitz?

  You're not in your dark period yet?

• 37:11Speaker 04

  I think it's gonna come. Yeah, I think where I'm on the edge.

• 37:15Josh Horowitz?

  What are you gonna do? It's not gonna be anything really bad. It's gonna be like peeing in a corner in public or something. That's not so bad. Just something a little.

• 37:22Speaker 04

  I think it's, it's gonna come. It's gonna come.

• 37:25Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, keep an eye out. Sam is looking for a crime to commit.

• 37:29Speaker 04

  Exactly. Yeah. Don't tell him, my PD.

• 37:33Josh Horowitz?

  Enjoy your week here. We're all excited for Al-Anda returning and it's always good to see you, man. Thanks for stopping by today.

• 37:40Speaker 04

  Thank you so much.

• 37:40Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks, buddy.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 38:00Speaker 06

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