Confronting ‘Wannabe Dave Ramsey’ For Exploiting Poor People! | Caleb Hammer

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  OF, OF, OF, OF, OF, OF.

• 0:35Graham Stephan?

  Which is your craziest story?

• 0:39Speaker 03

  Yes!

• 0:42Speaker 03

  Well, hit your account on a monthly basis.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  My paycheck?

• 0:45Speaker 03

  Yes! When you tell people just to be responsible, they take that as like a threat.

• 0:49Speaker 04

  Hey, don't get mad at me for saying it out to myself.

• 0:51Graham Stephan?

  What do you think of the criticism that sometimes you're too harsh on the guests?

• 0:54Speaker 03

  Stop being a [BLEEP] and take some actual [BLEEP] responsibility for the first time in your damn life. Why the [BLEEP] you guys here?

• 1:02Graham Stephan?

  How often do you tell the guest you should break up?

• 1:05Speaker 03

  There's a couple of people that they'd be better off separate, for sure.

• 1:07Jack Selby?

  Yeah, she didn't have debt before me, but she didn't have a degree either.

• 1:11Speaker 03

  Leave this person, leave this person. I also didn't have collections before you.

• 1:16Jack Selby?

  And you didn't have a job either. What would you say are the financial death sentences that people do?

• 1:20Speaker 03

  Cars are always a horrendous thing. Seriously, the car's not the best. I doubt you're maintaining it because you probably don't even know where the oil goes.

• 1:27Graham Stephan?

  And if someone were to look through your personal finances as an audit, what would they criticize?

• 1:40Graham Stephan?

  Caleb Hammer, welcome to the Iced Coffee Hour. So I've seen that you filmed over 500 episodes of financial audit. Which is your craziest story?

• 1:50Speaker 03

  Craziest story? It's a recent one, honestly. Couples episodes are my favorite. We were just talking before you love the couples episodes. Everyone loves the couples episodes.

• 2:02Speaker 03

  There's a guy and a girl, tale as old as time, together in love. Finance is a little bit of a mess, kind of using each other here and there. But then I randomly find out that their sex life is zero. Why does that come up in financial audit? I have no idea.

• 2:21Graham Stephan?

  Did you ask them?

• 2:22Speaker 03

  I don't remember the context. No, it was like a sly comment because you know, people bicker on the show. And he was like, they were talking, it was like, if you gave me some or something like that, it was something like that, which like triggered me to go deeper.

• 2:34Graham Stephan?

  And then you have to investigate.

• 2:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, because my producers didn't know, you know, one of them always sits there. Uh, I didn't know, I go in blind. So every once in a while, we hear these crazy things that whenever we hear something that my producers didn't know about beforehand, that's when we know it's going to be like the craziest episode. So we found out they weren't banging. And it's like once a month or so. And we went further and the purchases on his checking account and then it was OnlyFans, OnlyFans, OnlyFans, OnlyFans. And they agreed that they were not going to do any OnlyFans purchasing any because she wanted to, but he wasn't performing. And she was like, it is a rule. You cannot watch, you can't do all this. And he's like, okay, okay. So I saw those OnlyFans purchases. I was like, oh.

• 3:17Speaker 03

  And it got really somber, really quick. And I felt so bad for her. And I was like, dude, just give me your phone, took his phone, went to his OnlyFans. And the dude is subscribing like once a week to a new woman.

• 3:30Graham Stephan?

  Okay. So why do you have to see his OnlyFans? Isn't it enough to see the charges? Like, why do you have to see the individual people?

• 3:36Speaker 03

  Because.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  It was, I only had a month's statement, right? So I needed to see how consistent was this going back? And this was nonstop. Well, they're having this struggle and she put that as a red line, as a no go. That he could not do that. In that all being exposed on the show. I feel so horrible for her because it hit her.

• 3:56Jack Selby?

  I don't understand.

• 3:57Speaker 03

  It was real.

• 3:58Jack Selby?

  How she's unaware of the only like it hit her directly on the show. But if they're submitting their financial statements, don't you think that she would have gone through it? And also, if they're at the point of exposing this to millions of people online, then this guy would have been like, oh, I don't know if I want to do this financial audit thing. It's not like he forgot that this is going to be in his statements.

• 4:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:14Jack Selby?

  He knows going into.

• 4:15Speaker 03

  People don't know what's in their statements because the people that come on the show, I love you. You guys are great, but they're usually financially stupid. That's the point of the show, right? So they don't know what is in their.

• 4:26Jack Selby?

  That doesn't sound like financial stupidity. That just sounds like general.

• 4:30Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 4:30Jack Selby?

  Yeah, obviously that's going to be there.

• 4:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, the thing is, I mean, we've talked about this so many times. The guest is able to determine what we do not talk about. Usually there has been many guys that have been on the show that are like, I'm good with anything. Just don't mention the OnlyFans purchases, so we redact them and they're never even mentioned. You wouldn't even know what episodes.

• 4:50Graham Stephan?

  So they are hiding that from their significant other if they.

• 4:53Speaker 03

  Or just from the audience or from their workplace.

• 4:56Graham Stephan?

  How common is that? How common is it that they have OnlyFans?

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Very, very, and we censor via their requests. So that guy had that opportunity. I don't think he even like just thought about it. I don't even think he thought about it.

• 5:09Jack Selby?

  Did he seem like the type of guy that just wouldn't think about that? Or did it seem like he like wanted the drama? He wanted the episode to go viral.

• 5:16Speaker 03

  No, he did not want that to happen. So he shut down and it wasn't intentional. Again, that came up just organically. That wasn't planned, that wasn't known about. So no one knew, including him, it was crazy. The good news is they are still together. We've recently done an audit update, a part of our Hammer Elite membership with them, and they are still together. They're working on it, but it was kind of infidelity. Because they agreed, they agreed. She put the red line out there, the ultimatum. He's like, okay, fine. And then for months, for months, hundreds of dollars of OnlyFans purchases off to other women when they're not being.

• 5:54Graham Stephan?

  Do they have a joint account or were these separate accounts?

• 5:56Speaker 03

  They weren't married yet. And they're very young. It was like 20 and 21. So.

• 6:01Jack Selby?

  How often do you tell the guest you should break up?

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Um, for couples, maybe like 25% of the time. I, I, I.

• 6:08Jack Selby?

  That's often, I feel.

• 6:09Speaker 03

  Want them to break up usually, but in the heat of the episode, when I'm like, kind of hating someone. And I see that someone's the villain. I'm like, I want, leave this person, leave this person. But in the end, you know, once I actually have a second to cool down before filming our post show, it's like, okay. Okay. I hated you in this moment, but I don't hate you as a person. I don't want you guys to actually break up, but well, my, I kind of wanted you to. There's a couple of people that they'd be better off separate for sure. Like we had a potential, we've had a couple of abusive situations. And we've talked to the women off camera afterwards. And I think they should leave. So.

• 6:49Jack Selby?

  You talk to them off camera, just be like, hey, just letting you know.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Resources, you know, giving them the resources just in case they're in danger, telling them they can text us anytime, that kind of stuff. And I want them to leave, but you know, usually people in abusive situations, they don't. And the, the one that we had that we uploaded like two weeks before we're filming this right now. Um, none of us knew that it was a potentially sketchy situation. It just kind of came up in the episode when he was outside of the room. She offloaded what was happening.

• 7:16Jack Selby?

  What was hap- what was happening?

• 7:18Speaker 03

  Um, very computational, her being put in the corner with him like yelling and grabbing her collar.

• 7:24Jack Selby?

  Oh, wow.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  And pulling her back in.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  But I didn't get his alternative. I didn't get his side until the post show, cause I was just, I, I wanted to back away from that topic. In the post show, it was a completely different experience from his angle, saying that she had a knife. She was threatening to hurt herself, that she was gonna him. It was like all this different, so it was like, who's right, who's wrong, but they probably shouldn't be together.

• 7:47Jack Selby?

  And how were their finances?

• 7:49Speaker 03

  Always bad, always bad.

• 7:52Jack Selby?

  That's crazy. You're really getting like, kind of over.

• 7:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:55Jack Selby?

  Like you're getting into some treacherous territory here.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 7:59Jack Selby?

  Have you ever been threatened with a lawsuit from a financial audit that's done?

• 8:04Speaker 03

  Okay. So one of our favorite reoccurring guests, Brenton Davey, uh, he, he threw out the threat of a lawsuit. I don't think anyone took it too seriously. I don't, I don't even think we ran it past our lawyer. I don't remember. Uh, just that. Everyone's so on, on boarded so detailed.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  That no one's surprised, nothing's too crazy. But I mean, I think in the early days, I mean, we had a couple of people that are upset. Maybe they like, thought about it, you know, in the back of their head.

• 9:05Graham Stephan?

  But the thing is, is that sometimes these people's grievances or charges get thrown out to the world. Millions of people see it. Has anybody been worried about the repercussions of like getting employed afterwards when they've been caught lying to their significant other about OnlyFans charges? And maybe an employer sees this and says, hey, wait a second. Maybe this is not the guy who we should hire to like be in charge of the elementary school.

• 9:30Speaker 03

  The elementary school. Only one person in the four we film a week, three uploads a week, has actually faced real world consequences from his job, but it was fair. The dude worked in being like an airline mechanic. So he was doing maintenance, which people's lives depend on. And the job that he had at filming, which he fully admitted, and again, he did not need to talk about on the show. He could have told us and we would have not done it. Cause I don't even think I knew about it. And he said, yeah, I was fired from my last job because I almost got someone. And he just admitted that and they were like, oh, we didn't know that. Sorry, bye. So that's the one person that's faced actual real world consequences. Most get their bosses permission to come on the show. They're like, ah, I'm going to come on the show. It's going to be a little embarrassing. Are you chill with that? And they're like, yeah, it's chill.

• 10:15Speaker 03

  Cause most people don't actually care. It's, you know, a fun, like it goes crazy online for like two days and that's gone. Right?

• 10:22Jack Selby?

  Have you ever made the decision to remove something from an episode in order to protect the guest?

• 10:26Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Well, all the time when it comes to locations or people's names, that happens constantly.

• 10:32Jack Selby?

  But what about their own just negligence or something that they don't understand the consequences of putting that airing that out?

• 10:38Graham Stephan?

  They reveal something where you say, you really shouldn't be saying this. And even though you think it's okay, I'm going to take the executive decision to cut that.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, a couple of mental health things, not in like a position where they weren't mentally well enough to be on the show or something like that. But more like, ah, you know, they're talking about maybe a situation where like, you know, it's not the best. It's, it's like, it reflects badly out into the world and, you know, maybe in that moment, they were very sad and worked up. But we're like, okay, they probably didn't want to say that. So there's just a few instances here and that. And I give my editors a lot of power where I, I don't need to overlook everything. But if they see that something's like, okay, this kind of for that person's life, you know, and it's like, obviously in the moment, it didn't really make sense for them to be saying it.

• 11:29Speaker 03

  It has no contextual part of the episode, then they'll, they'll get rid of it.

• 11:34Graham Stephan?

  And what about recently, you had a guest come in with a?

• 11:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, actually, yeah, it's happened a couple of times, but yeah.

• 11:41Graham Stephan?

  Couple of times?

• 11:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. Dude, I don't know, man.

• 11:44Graham Stephan?

  How do you?

• 11:44Speaker 03

  People are crazy. We got a guy up front. You probably saw him. We love him. He keeps us safe. Um, I'm waiting for the day when he gets to, you know, tackle someone, but, uh, cause we got some crazies out there, but yeah, she came with a, I have no idea why. It was stupid and she bought it right before coming on the show with debt, like a dumb, like, I don't know what the.

• 12:03Graham Stephan?

  Why did she buy it before the show?

• 12:06Speaker 03

  Uh, safety because she was coming from the airport to our studio.

• 12:12Jack Selby?

  So she?

• 12:12Speaker 03

  10 minutes in the airport.

• 12:14Jack Selby?

  So she went, landed the plane.

• 12:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:17Jack Selby?

  Went straight to a store.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  I think so, or she got it right before going on the plane. I don't remember, but she was like, it's a new city. I'm scared.

• 12:22Graham Stephan?

  Does that not seem like a, a red flag that a guest buys it before coming on the show?

• 12:29Speaker 03

  A little bit, but we have protection here.

• 12:31Graham Stephan?

  Even still, I don't think normal people land somewhere to go on a show and like in between the airport and the show buys it. Regardless of the intention of that, it doesn't seem like a.

• 12:45Jack Selby?

  If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, sounds like a duck, might be.

• 12:51Speaker 03

  The show wouldn't be half as interesting without a couple psychos here and there, though. So it's a sacrifice I wanted to take.

• 12:56Jack Selby?

  How do you find some of these people? Because I see your ads everywhere. When I'm on Facebook or Instagram, I'm scrolling and I'm like, you know, come on Financial Audit. And it seems like you're casting worldwide almost or throughout the United States.

• 13:09Speaker 03

  It's actually targeted places and you guys are in Vegas. So Vegas, you know, there's some fun people in Vegas. So it's a couple targeted spots. The thing is, it's an awareness play. We target people who already watch Financial Audit, already fans of Financial Audit. So we just get them to think, here's a show that you like, want to come on the show. Because we, everyone we have is from the audience. In the, in the rare, like, one or two times a year that someone has not seen the show, we force them to watch an episode and some clips before they come on the show. But everyone's just from the audience. We just target them and we're like, hey, you want to go on the show? Want to come on the show? We just kind of make them think about it when they're, when they're scrolling online. So everyone's from the audience. There's just some crazy people out there and I love them for it. I love them for it.

• 13:54Speaker 03

  Be crazy. We like a little crazy. I'm a little crazy.

• 13:57Jack Selby?

  What I don't understand is why do you have the name of your company on the door to the building? I have never understood that. It seems like there is so little to gain and so much to lose.

• 14:09Graham Stephan?

  That was the first thing Jack and I said, even when we first did the studio.

• 14:12Jack Selby?

  I literally just see it and I'm just like, like, what do you have to gain? If you can maybe list out three things, like three benefits of having the name on the door.

• 14:20Speaker 03

  I mean, it's, I like my logo.

• 14:23Jack Selby?

  Ego. Okay, there's one ego.

• 14:26Speaker 03

  Ego, sure, a little to a certain point. I mean, it's, it's really cool to have accomplished having, you know, like a big space. That is cool. But it does make it easier for people to find, but we could use, we could pretend it's a different company and just tell them to find that. So that's not a good reason.

• 14:41Speaker 03

  I don't know. It was just one of the first things we did was market.

• 14:43Graham Stephan?

  We've seen some studios.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:45Graham Stephan?

  And they've purposely gone out of their way to be as anonymous as possible and that works to their favor.

• 14:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:51Graham Stephan?

  And you have no idea who they are, what's going on behind the doors. It's all tinted.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. We probably should. Wow, we probably should. We have some crazies. Again, I'm happy the guy up front is there. I love him. He takes me to and from my car every day.

• 15:08Graham Stephan?

  That's good. That is very wise. Yeah.

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Or if I go downstairs for any of the restaurants and whatnot, but.

• 15:13Graham Stephan?

  Do you, do you worry about your personal safety?

• 15:16Speaker 03

  I did. You know, after the Charlie Kirk thing, I was like, I mean, we're not even in comparable spaces, but I've had people, even though I literally just joke and make roasts to people that are consenting to it, I have people calling me fascist day in and day out. So I had security sitting out front of my house for weeks until we got to install a good system. I got a gun, so I'll blast someone's head off if needed. But, you know, it was, it was scary there for a second. I think everyone's, I mean, I was texting you, you were a little nervous too. Like, I think everyone was a little scared that is even personal finances can get controversial. When you tell people just to be responsible, they take that as like a threat. It's like the way people twist things is crazy. Um, I mean, yeah, I mean, I have a pretty intense snark community and, um, I have,

• 16:01Speaker 03

  and then those, those people are pretty crazy and they've put other creators' lives in threat. So every once in a while, you know, I'll get a security guard to sit outside when like something's kind of bubbling a little, when people are going a little ravenous online. But in general, we have a good security system at my house to protect me and my girlfriend and dogs. And we have a ready fingerprint, you know,

• 16:26Speaker 03

  if needed. Hopefully not though. It's just, it's just crazy that a show that should be just fun with crazy titles and thumbnails. I get it. I know. Gets people so heated in a way where like, I mean, we get, we, I do get threats.

• 16:40Graham Stephan?

  The thing is I've watched a lot of your episodes and some of the people I think who are on your show are not mentally stable. And those are the people who I worry about, or maybe you go a little too hard on them, or maybe something happens down the line that they were on the show and then they're not in the right headspace to fully think through their decisions.

• 17:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's always possible. There's been a couple of people we've been nervous about. Brent, a guy a long time ago named Zeke. We do a lot better in our vetting process now. We don't allow people with like these, you know, if they have like dangerous.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  Actually, we do background checks and our security guard did find one person who almost came on and was almost invited to the studio, had a couple of just weird red flags in their internet history. And we're just like, nah, it's not even worth the risk.

• 17:25Jack Selby?

  Smart. The logic agrees with you. Like, you're not doing anything objectively wrong, but you're potentially working with people that aren't playing by the same rules. They're not following the logic. So that's the only thing that I, you know, we could advise on.

• 17:39Graham Stephan?

  Now, every business right now is asking themselves the same question. How do we make AI work for us? The possibilities are endless, but guessing is too risky and sitting on the sidelines isn't an option because if you're not doing it, guaranteed your competitors are.

• 17:53Jack Selby?

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• 18:06Graham Stephan?

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• 18:20Jack Selby?

  And this is not just an add-on. It's literally AI built right into the system that runs your business, helping you cut costs, improve accuracy, and stay ahead of the competition.

• 18:28Graham Stephan?

  Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite gives you the control and visibility to keep moving forward. Honestly, if I were building a business at this level, this is exactly what I'd be using because I've been starting to integrate AI into my own business and it has already saved me hours of time a day that I could instead use on actually making things even better.

• 18:48Jack Selby?

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• 18:55Graham Stephan?

  Again, the guide is free for you at netsuite.com/iced with the link down below in the description. netsuite.com/iced. Enjoy. Going on something a little more positive here. You've seen at this point thousands of people, between couples, individuals, you've seen all the personal finances. What is the strongest predictor of success?

• 19:15Speaker 03

  Strongest predictor of success is when they have a really good story about weight loss or grinding through a degree or working through a family struggle and helping someone else. When they've buckled down and actually accomplished something even outside of personal finances. Like I know you have the capacity to lock down, go through some uncomfortable months, or even potentially years if it's really bad and get this done. Especially those that have gone through like, we've had people that come on and they've lost hundreds of pounds. And I'm like, man, okay, if you went through how hard that is, I know you can take a budget, take some tools, take some resources and actually improve your life.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  When they've saved family members or friends or gone through really hard degrees with no support. That it's past behavior is indicative of future results or something, right? So it's when people have really accomplished some hard things in the past, I know they can buckle down. Now, on the other side, when I have a guest coming on and they play the deflection game. This happens a lot. They're like, oh yeah, I'm gonna change that. Or, oh yeah, I'm changing that. Or I want to change that. That's the response to any pushback I give. And I'm like, no, you have no example, no history of you ever changing anything. And I have your statements right in front of me and it's all around and that's this last month. You can't just, your response to everything can't be, I'm changing that. I'm gonna change that. Cause that isn't it. I can take that word from someone that lost weight,

• 20:42Speaker 03

  went through a really hard time in life and went from homelessness to back. That I can believe in that person. But when someone hasn't actually had the struggle or done the turnaround at any point in their life and they're just like, yeah, I'm gonna do it. I don't believe it. I don't believe it. There's nothing for me to believe. Where's the believe? I don't see the believe.

• 20:59Graham Stephan?

  Do you think it's possible for someone who has not been through the struggles to make a change?

• 21:04Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely. It's just harder to be like objectively confident.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  Because it's it's the first time. I mean, when I went through my personal finances, the financial issues in my early twenties and grinding my way out. It was the first real struggle that I did do myself because yes, my family had personal financial struggles and foreclosure notices. But that was in my family, right? As a kid, you might have some like side consequences, but it wasn't like I didn't have to go get a job at five or 10.

• 21:35Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  So, I mean, I did it. I know people can do it. I just, I cannot play the game of the deflection of, oh, I'm going to change it. It's like, there is nothing to show me. You can't just say that. That's not an answer to, hey, why'd you spend all this? Oh, I'm going to change it. No, it's, you haven't showed me that you are, you know, you haven't proven that. So, yeah, of course, of course, but it is harder to get in to that motion of really changing your life for the very first time ever. For the first time ever, when you haven't done it before.

• 22:05Graham Stephan?

  What's the most insane purchase that you've seen from someone who's broke?

• 22:09Speaker 03

  Well, OnlyFans is a pretty bad purchase. Paying for titties? Paying for titties in 2026.

• 22:15Jack Selby?

  I will say, ethically speaking, it could be more ethical than free.

• 22:21Speaker 03

  Jack, the hub does ads. The ad sense on the hub.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  The ad sense on the hub is crazy.

• 22:27Graham Stephan?

  I hear actually the hub pays really well.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  Really well.

• 22:31Graham Stephan?

  Some creators are uploading their non-explicit videos to the hub and actually making like a decent money from it.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  It's like making members content versus posting it on main. Main does really well. Like it's, it's, you know, so I get it, but I mean, that's stupid. I'm sorry. Titties are everywhere. They're free. Why are we paying for them? That was a dumb purchase.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  You always got the car, the hundred thousand dollar Ford Texas Ranch Ranger. F1000 and it's just, oh my. Or when someone thinks they got a nice car and they got like a Dodge Charger and they souped it up for like 50,000 hours. I'm like, what are we doing? Why Dodge Charger? Why? Why? So cars, cars are always a horrendous thing.

• 23:13Graham Stephan?

  What's the biggest car payment you've seen?

• 23:17Speaker 03

  Two thousand, I think, two thousand, it was a truck. It was a truck, yeah.

• 23:21Graham Stephan?

  How much?

• 23:21Speaker 03

  We've had a couple that was around two thousand.

• 23:23Graham Stephan?

  How much were they making?

• 23:24Speaker 03

  All of it. It definitely wasn't in their budget, I'll tell you that. I mean, usually around the show, people bring in like five to six.

• 23:32Graham Stephan?

  So they're spending like thirty five percent of their income on the car?

• 23:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, but they could have been a three thousand dollar income. I, I, you know, that was like a year ago, so I'm not exactly sure on their number, but it was about a two thousand dollar truck payment. And we've had that, I think, twice now.

• 23:44Graham Stephan?

  What's a classic broke person car?

• 23:47Speaker 03

  Dodge Charger is definitely highest level of repos, I think, one of them, right? Um, or Challenger. Uh, I don't know. They do gravitate to like those like weird muscle cars. It's classic that and a big, big truck, Americans and their big truck. I don't know why, man.

• 24:07Graham Stephan?

  What would you say are the financial death sentences that people do?

• 24:10Speaker 03

  It's the micro purchases. The micro purchases and it's how you do your micro purchases. So even in people's checking account, they'll do the micro purchase of the McDonald's, Donald's, McDonald's, McDonald's over and over and over again. And but they don't think it's much because it's ten dollars, it's twelve dollars. Then it's every day, every other day, or the energy drink, the energy drink thing is huge, man. People going in and buying five dollar energy drinks every day on the way to work. Every day and that shit stacks. But then you can do it wrong. You can do it on a credit card that is building interest. So it's even worse than on the checking account. Or you could do even worse, do it at a thirty five percent interest rate on Klarna and then only. This is what we have now on our show, people buy their energy drinks on Klarna and then they'll pay their Klarna minimum monthly payment with their credit card. And then they'll pay their credit card with like a personal loan.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  It's like, it's just like debt for debt for debt for debt. And the longer you push that out, the further you push it down that debt train, the longer it takes to pay off the debt. But it's those micro purchases are what's killing everyone. It is a high car payment or is the micro purchases that you're like, it's not that much, but I'm going to do it over and over and over again. And it stacks up way higher than you'd ever think.

• 25:14Graham Stephan?

  Where do you think the balance is though, between scaling back on micro purchases and putting that effort towards making more money?

• 25:21Speaker 03

  Well, more money doesn't change bad behavior, right? So it really doesn't. I mean, when people lifestyle inflate, you get an extra twenty five percent income, you probably spend an extra thirty five percent. So before people ever.

• 25:35Speaker 03

  Aggressively go make a lot more money or go through bankruptcy, credit card transfer, personal loan, whatever it is, those can all be really good tools. But if you don't change the inherent behavior that got you there in the first place, you're just gonna get off. We've had people that are coming on the show going through their third bankruptcy because that doesn't actually change anything. That consolidation doesn't change anything.

• 25:56Jack Selby?

  You're calling it behavior. Would you say it's more a lack of knowledge? Or would you say it's mostly laziness that keeps people poor?

• 26:05Speaker 03

  Uh, these days more laziness. I could see, I could see a lack of knowledge a bit more 10, 20 years ago, but now more than half the states in the country have a required personal finance course to graduate high school. Like that's huge. It's a big change in this country. Now that's a big positive. Um, and now we're, we live in the world of Grok, GPT, Claude, Google, you name it, anything you want to know, you find out. And personal finance is honestly basic. Like I'm kind of when it comes to math. It's basic. It's very basic stuff. Like, no, we're not talking like the best insurance is by, we're talking about paying off debt, building a fully funded emergency fund. So at this point, it's laziness to not find the answer.

• 26:48Speaker 03

  Or it's just, it goes beyond the ignorance to like, you know, there's something going on and you're just actively choosing not to do it because it's more comfortable to put your head in the sand. It's more comfortable to live that fast food every day, Starby's everyday lifestyle, uh, which is fun. I mean, I get it for what it's worth. I mean, I will put myself back there with all these guests that are doing it. When I was in college, carefree, going to McDonald's every day or going out with friends and putting that on credit cards every single day, Chase Freedom Card. It was, it was fun and I had no stresses. Even though the stress was building, I didn't acknowledge it. It wasn't real. It was something

• 27:28Speaker 03

  for later not to think about. And that was fun. It's more stressful to think about money even when you're successful because you're thinking about money and it's just, it's always there. It's always something to figure out. When you're not thinking about it, you're just swiping. That's a great life. Not in the end, but it's a great life in the moment. It really is. Uh, so. I think it's a little bit of certainly laziness, lack of information, less and less so. And uh, cause everyone uses the excuse, well, my parent never taught me. No one's does. Did yours? Did yours? I don't know.

• 28:01Jack Selby?

  A little bit, yeah. That's what kind of got me into it. It's like, he was, I remember when I was young, actually it was Graham, honestly. Like my dad was telling me, hey, you should like be buying stocks and stuff like that. And so like, I kind of like dabbled very lightly. But then it was Graham's videos of like high interest banks. And I was like, how can I make my money that I've saved? Kind of like grow over time. So it was really just high yield savings accounts was the first thing to everything. But I do agree with you. I think it's mostly laziness and not necessarily knowledge, because the knowledge is everywhere. It's not hard to find it.

• 28:28Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but you have to know to look for it in the first place.

• 28:31Jack Selby?

  What do you mean?

• 28:32Graham Stephan?

  It's pretty obvious. If all you ever see is people spending money on a credit card and that's your entire world, how do you know there's anything?

• 28:40Jack Selby?

  Okay. So like, what IQ do you think you have to have higher than to be able to say? Okay, I am dissatisfied with where I'm at financially. Let me do a quick Google search to see how can I improve it?

• 28:49Graham Stephan?

  I just think when it's all you see, it's your entire world. You have no idea what's beyond that world. Let's just say you live in a very poor neighborhood. You've never been out of that district. You don't have a car. All you see is poverty. How do you know there's anything beyond that?

• 29:05Jack Selby?

  The same could be.

• 29:05Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, no beyond that, for what it's worth, we live in the world where everyone's watching content from all around the world. You know, there's a life beyond it. I'll say, I mean, where you were going for a second, I was totally aligned with when you grow up in bad schools, you grow up in poverty. Yes, it is harder to escape that. The United States isn't perfect for going up to the next class, you know? We're, we're kind of middle of the road when it comes to that. You can get lots of success here, but it is, it's not perfect moving up the reins.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  But now with everyone being so connected, you, you see beyond.

• 29:36Jack Selby?

  All you need is one Mark Tilbury short or one of your shorts to appear on your shorts feed. And then it's like, okay.

• 29:42Graham Stephan?

  But it's only once you start down that path, do you get recommended the content? Like I remember when I was making the video about the Roth IRA, explaining it. I knew that people wouldn't notice search for it unless they already were looking for it. And so I made a video on like, how to be a tax-free millionaire on $5 a day or whatever the title was.

• 30:00Jack Selby?

  Is the thing. Back in the day, it didn't. That's why I think now is different than it was a decade ago.

• 30:04Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, my thing is like, if you're going to get your first credit card.

• 30:09Speaker 03

  We didn't have GPT and all that stuff when I was getting my first credit card. Instead, I asked my parents, if I was 18 today, I would literally YouTube, Google, like, maybe I wouldn't say what's dangerous about a credit card, but I would like, tell me about this credit card and it would at least tell you about the interest and all. And then I'm like, oh, wait, tell me about that interest, right? Because it takes you down those rabbit holes to keep using the service. So.

• 30:28Jack Selby?

  Would you agree that if you're motivated to become financially literate, then it exists?

• 30:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:34Jack Selby?

  Okay.

• 30:34Graham Stephan?

  You have to be motivated to be financially literate.

• 30:36Jack Selby?

  The exact opposite of being motivated is to be lazy. And so you're saying then that if you're lazy, that will be a massive obstacle.

• 30:42Graham Stephan?

  It's harder when you don't know what to look for or what you need to even search for.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  That is true.

• 30:47Jack Selby?

  That, yeah, that's absolutely true. But if you're on the sliding scale of like laziness versus knowledge, then like, if you're motivated, eventually you'll find out. If it requires a few failures along the road.

• 30:57Graham Stephan?

  I think right now, there's like another 100x opportunity that we're all going to look back on today and be like, oh, my gosh, if only I knew to search for that. But you don't know to search for that because it's not in our sphere. But 10 years from now, it might be. And we look back at today and we say, oh, I should have done that. I think a lot of people do that with finance. I should have done this had I known that I needed to do that.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  It's also harder because again, we just have so many more resources than ever before.

• 31:22Jack Selby?

  If you just take a snapshot of time right now, you know, that's, I think that there's an abundance of knowledge, information online that can take you.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  Less so about the lack of education. A dangerous thing we see time and time again is like the bad education because it's not.

• 31:42Speaker 00

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• 32:12Speaker 03

  Perfect isn't like trying over and over again, right? It's that or perfection isn't trying over and over again. Cause if you keep trying the same bad thing over and over again, you're going to be perfect to be bad as well. So it doesn't lead to endlessly good results. If your parents are giving you bad information, like, you know, we're, let's say we're in a place that is lower income and everyone is getting their nice cars, what they're prioritizing over getting a nice place or a nice education. And, and your parents are pushing you to do that. Like, hey, you gotta look good. You gotta get this car. You gotta get this clothes. You gotta do this. It's like, that's bad education. That could hurt someone because the kid's very impressionable. Or getting pressured to go get a bad degree or worthless degree at any school, going into any amount of student loan debt. Like, I don't blame an 18 year old for that if their parents are student counselors

• 32:57Speaker 03

  are heavily pushing them, go to any school you want to get any degree you want and borrow whatever it takes to get it. So, you know, that's, I, I don't think that's laziness. I think you can have a bad influence. I had a slight bad influence. I turned 18. I wanted a piano. My set, my parents said, well, the first thing you should do at 18 is open a credit card and max it out to get the piano you wanted. So I did. That wasn't laziness. That was the people that I looked to for the advice, giving me bad advice. So it's not just laziness. There's, there's, there's other components to it as well, but there's lots of laziness.

• 33:30Graham Stephan?

  I a hundred percent agree. There's many components to it. We just happen to maybe disagree on the sliding scale.

• 33:36Speaker 03

  Sure, sure.

• 33:37Graham Stephan?

  Why do you think so many people don't know how much money they spend?

• 33:40Speaker 03

  They don't look, man. I got people coming on the show that have never seen their checking accounts. They won't do something as simple as like literally just all the, all the apps do the automated connections. And it just tells you within like two minutes.

• 33:54Graham Stephan?

  What's your favorite one that you'd recommend?

• 33:55Speaker 03

  Well, Dollar Wise, of course, but.

• 33:57Graham Stephan?

  If, if we're, if we're putting that to the side, besides Dollar Wise budgeting app, what would you recommend?

• 34:04Speaker 03

  Hmm. I like ones for different reasons. If you want to go hardcore advanced, YNAB is fun. We've just learned that a lot of people click off in the onboarding because this is, there's too much, too much.

• 34:13Graham Stephan?

  I agree with you on that. I tried doing it and it just was taking too much time. I was like.

• 34:17Speaker 03

  That's why we did some, uh, Rocket Money is pretty good. But I learned in the end, they just kind of want to sell you a mortgage. So. Wasn't the biggest fan of.

• 34:26Graham Stephan?

  I got a mortgage with Rocket Mortgage.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  See.

• 34:28Graham Stephan?

  In fairness, but, but, but it was the best rate that I could have found.

• 34:31Speaker 03

  It's what it works.

• 34:31Graham Stephan?

  They are very competitive. I gotta say.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  I'm not saying that's inherently bad, but I want to use it for my own reasons, not to be sold. Uh, I did do EveryDollar. EveryDollar is good. One thing I didn't like and why I don't always advise it is because it forces you to use the Ramsey method. So you know, that's not very like personal. So Monarch is pretty good. Monarch's the new guy on the block. I just always get a little nervous when companies raise like a hundred million dollars in private equity because.

• 34:59Graham Stephan?

  What do they use that money for, for a budgeting app? A hundred million dollars?

• 35:02Speaker 03

  It's crazy because we didn't need that, but also private equity always ends up like collecting private data in the end. Not saying they're going to, that's always what private equity wants. So I get a little nervous. So I like all those apps for their own reasons, but I'm hesitant for all those specifics as well.

• 35:15Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. Personally, I tend to like Rocket Money a lot. I find it's the best beginner friendly.

• 35:21Speaker 03

  It's pretty easy.

• 35:22Graham Stephan?

  Has everything you need and it's pretty affordable if you pay for it and I pay for it. I actually like it.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  I'd say they're all affordable for what you get. If you tweak your budget, because all of them are on that 10 to 15 bucks a month. If you tweak your budget and save a hundred bucks.

• 35:35Graham Stephan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:35Speaker 03

  Just because of a budget nap, it's like, it's so easily worth it.

• 35:38Jack Selby?

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• 35:47Graham Stephan?

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• 35:56Jack Selby?

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• 36:20Graham Stephan?

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• 36:32Jack Selby?

  So you see, a co-host can help manage reservations. Guest communication and even provide onsite support. So everything goes smoothly while you're away.

• 36:39Graham Stephan?

  This makes hosting a lot more manageable when you travel.

• 36:41Jack Selby?

  It's also just a great way to earn some extra cash for future trips or just home projects.

• 36:45Graham Stephan?

  If you've considered hosting but need some help, find a co-host at airbnb.com/host. So at what income level do you feel like someone should stop feeling broke?

• 36:57Speaker 03

  Does that ever happen? Did that happen to you?

• 37:00Graham Stephan?

  I don't feel broke anymore, but I don't feel rich either. So I feel like somewhere in the, somewhere in the middle.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  We'll get memed on for saying that, of course, but um yeah, stop feeling broke. Obviously it's gonna depend on where you live. Man, it's gonna be less of an income thing. It's gonna be your liabilities, isn't it? It always is. You can be making a hundred million dollars a year, but if you got billions in liabilities, I mean, and those payments are fucked, you're gonna feel broke. Hundred thousand dollars a year is what I always aimed for. But if I had a high car payment, high rent, high mortgage, whatever it is, gonna feel broke.

• 37:37Graham Stephan?

  Even studies today now say that middle class starts at a hundred and forty thousand dollars a year for a family with two kids.

• 37:44Speaker 03

  And Gen Z said they didn't need to make like three hundred thousand a year to feel comfortable or something. Just why?

• 37:49Graham Stephan?

  What are your thoughts on that?

• 37:50Speaker 03

  Well, my thoughts is they haven't been through a recession yet. So a little bit of a lack of life experience, which is fine. That's not a bad thing. That's not on Gen Z. I'm right in that middle. You're Gen Z. I'm like on that cusp. Um, so it's not pooing on them, but it's like,

• 38:06Speaker 03

  I get it. I get it. The lifestyle that we want in our consumerism culture, the more the merrier when it comes to money. But once you actually go through a recession or you enter a bad job market now, they actually are entering a bad job market right now. And that might change the numbers because where Gen Z was entering the job market for the majority of their work life so far was like the best job market in the history of the United States. You know, that COVID boom, tech hiring anyone for anything. And now it's a bad time. Now it's a hard time. The layoffs last month, highest since the Great Recession. Job number revisions that hit the day before we're filming this episode? Millions less last year. So I think that is what a generation usually takes to realize,

• 38:52Speaker 03

  okay, like I, I can be happy with living a certain lifestyle and it doesn't need to be this over the top crazy. So not saying they need to, but it is hard. Reality hits it.

• 39:05Graham Stephan?

  How bad is Gen Z gonna get by AI?

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Dude, that's the question. That's the question.

• 39:10Graham Stephan?

  All the people right now who are studying to be lawyers.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:14Graham Stephan?

  Engineers. I feel like so many people are going to get wiped out and they're going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars going to school. Years of their life just to graduate and realize like, wait a second. This AI is now able to do what I've studied years to do. And it does it in one a hundredth of the time for free.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  It's crazy. My head of tech who has about a five person team, he said, if he was doing this six years ago, he would need three times the people. That's a ton of jobs, not out of like greed or anything, which is like, you don't pay people when you don't need to hire someone. And it's not a greed thing. So everything is so efficient right now, especially in the world of programming, even slightly design and engineering. It is difficult. The arguments are interesting on both sides. And it's impossible. I refuse to take like who I agree with, because I don't know. I don't want to just, just like, yeah, I agree with this person that's guessing. It doesn't know what they're talking about.

• 40:19Speaker 03

  There's the two camps, right? It's okay, this has happened throughout human history. You got the farm equipment, you got the automation and factories. Okay, industries got wiped out. It was all replaced with something more productive. This is another example of that. And then there's the other ones like, well, no, this is, this is new. This is completely game changing. We're not going to need to do anything. We need to get something like UBI going. We need to do, you know, this is, we've never seen anything like this. I don't know what the other side of the hill looks like. I don't know what the other side of the hill looks like. I don't know if I want to fully advise to panic, go into a trade that is less AI replaceable. Cause I don't, I don't want to scare people off from anything else.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  But I also don't want to say there's nothing to worry about, which we don't know what the other side of the hill looks like, man. We really don't. And we're already seeing some impacts right now. Customer service will probably be automated. If you ever talk to one of these programs right now.

• 41:15Graham Stephan?

  They're getting better.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  They're getting good. They're getting good. I talk to Grok in my car sometimes, like when if we're stuck in traffic, me and my girlfriend will play trivia on it. It's a little weird with their intonation sometimes, but it's good and it listens really well. So customer service is probably gone. A lot of engineering is probably gone.

• 41:33Graham Stephan?

  I think therapists are also going to be wiped out.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. Once people feel athlekey, safe with that, unethical about it.

• 41:42Graham Stephan?

  I do. Yes, absolutely. If I have any sort of personal problem, I will put it in chat GPT or Gemini and I get its unbiased opinion.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  Unbiased?

• 41:54Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. I say poke holes. You have to word it in such a way that it doesn't just agree with you. And I want it to poke holes, show the other side, tell me what I'm not seeing. You have to prompt it.

• 42:06Speaker 03

  You do have to prompt.

• 42:07Jack Selby?

  You do have to prompt it, but still there is kind of like an end all with like, there is bias on.

• 42:13Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but so would be a therapist. A therapist would have their own biases that they weave into. I would probably feel more confident.

• 42:19Jack Selby?

  Okay, so then how do you justify when we ask chat GPT, hey, estimate with the highest level of accuracy, our IQ, and it gives you and I both what we literally say, we literally say, be as objective as possible, like no nonsense, and it says the exact same IQ for both you and me and our other friend we had in the car. I'm just saying.

• 42:38Graham Stephan?

  I'm not saying it's perfect and I'm not saying that I follow it as gospel, but I will say it does give me what I think is a valuable perspective that maybe I am not seeing.

• 42:48Jack Selby?

  A hundred percent. It does do a generally really good job, but also for the average person that's going to be using chat GPT, they're looking for validation. And so when they say, and then look at what this person said, it wasn't that messed up. And chat GPT being its very biased self will be like, yeah, you know what? And then you did what's right and they did what's wrong. Like it just generally, it wants to make you stand on the platform.

• 43:07Speaker 03

  That was trying to cancel her psychiatrist. Were you guys watching the whole saga?

• 43:11Graham Stephan?

  No.

• 43:12Speaker 03

  Oh, that show was crazy. You would have loved it. Oh, my goodness. But she was doing new therapy with GPT. Uh, and or actually another one of those programs, but either way, she was trying to cancel her psychiatrist for not wanting to her. But the AI was fully enabling her and she started to make all these TikTok videos that racked up tens of millions of views trying to cancel this guy and destroy his life. I don't know.

• 43:34Graham Stephan?

  Okay, now.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  It does reinforce your worldview.

• 43:37Graham Stephan?

  It can, as long as you don't have the mental fortitude to push back against it and the objective thinking to think cri- like critically about these things. If you were in the mental headspace where where you're subject to outside perspective that much, I don't think you're at the point where that's going to benefit you. It reminds us like the guy who recently is a really unfortunate situation where he uh, offed himself and someone else because he felt like that person was spying on him and he was schizophrenic. And he thought the printer that his mom wanted plugged in was spying on him and would talk to chat GPT, which would reinforce his belief. And he would say, I think my printer is spying on me. And chat GPT would say,

• 44:21Graham Stephan?

  yes, you are very vigilant. You are extremely correct in this thinking. Most likely, uh, this is a, uh, it's like a hidden camera and it's recording you. And when this was unplugged, you're very smart to think like it reinforces his beliefs.

• 44:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, we're close to that consciousness that they're trying to get to most likely. I mean, a lot of people think it's like five years out. Once it does that, it should be able to think on its own. Which hopefully would get rid of less biases, only bias on the information that's given or the parameters that it's set by the creator.

• 44:51Graham Stephan?

  But how do you feel like this is going to impact Gen Z and everyone else in the future?

• 44:55Speaker 03

  Is gonna is gonna be a minimum changed. We can at least say changed. Whether or not we become more productive in a certain way and it fuels different industries, or they're going to be jobless and we're going to need to tax the f- of everyone to do UBI. That we don't know, but if I was going into college right now, I would, I don't want to panic everyone into it, but I would try to find something that's less, less likely to be replaced by AI. I think.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  Government probably won't want to use AI because they don't want to be productive in anything. They just they're still using like printers and all this fax machines. So I'm not terribly afraid of that being replaced.

• 45:34Graham Stephan?

  I heard they're using AI at the IRS, though. They're starting they're starting to use it to process audits and flags.

• 45:41Speaker 03

  They used Claude in the Venezuela operation that just came out.

• 45:44Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 45:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:46Graham Stephan?

  I didn't know that.

• 45:47Speaker 03

  Anthropic was kind of they came out with a they came out with it and now the Department of Defense or Department of War, whatever you want to call it, is like kind of feuding with them. It's like active news as we're filming this. So who knows where that's gonna go out. But yeah. Trades, I don't know if AI is going to do plumber, but they got the humanoids coming. You know, we'll see what Tesla does. There's always new robots here and there. You got the cleaning toilet, the toilet cleaning robots happening right now. Uh, banking and finance, I have a feeling though AI probably could do really good. I have a feeling it's going to be so heavily regulated in finance that it might be one of the safer places to be. Because who knows what the government's going to allow AI to do in finance? So might be a safer place to get into.

• 46:33Speaker 03

  Getting into being a programmer and whatnot. I feel like that's just the most dangerous right now. You just have to be top level. You have to be top level now.

• 46:41Graham Stephan?

  Do you feel like it's easier than ever to be financially free? Given that we have all these resources available?

• 46:47Speaker 03

  More resources to learn. Yeah, more resources to learn. Housing costs, not rent, but buying a house is, I mean, it's harder now than since like before everyone came back from World War Two. So I mean, that's more and more out of reach.

• 47:03Speaker 03

  Financially free. I mean, yeah, the stock market gives you incredible opportunities for investment and compound growth throughout your life. Incredible opportunities of getting better and better every year. As we have a major correction that brings that average of 12% from the S and P 500 down.

• 47:16Speaker 03

  So that is on your side. Housing is against. But rental is better on markets that are actually encouraging building for what it's work worth, like Nashville, Florida, Austin, Dallas.

• 47:26Graham Stephan?

  It just seems like with all these opportunities with AI, it's easier than ever to create a business.

• 47:31Speaker 03

  To start a business for sure. You got

• 47:33Graham Stephan?

  easier than ever. The options to make money out there are endless with all the resources that are available.

• 47:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, but you got to have that entrepreneurial mindset behind that. Like for the average person, though, is it easier than ever? I don't know. It's gonna it's gonna be a change in trajectory. They're just gonna have to figure out how to navigate it. Again, it's harder to buy a house. It is harder to buy a house. But it's better to invest now, easier to invest now than ever. Fractional shares. I mean, there's tools and resources that are better than ever.

• 48:04Speaker 03

  But there's a couple of things that are more out of reach, but you don't need to buy a house to be financially successful anyway. So, but a lot of people, you know, tie that into the American dream and whatnot.

• 48:12Jack Selby?

  It is interesting. It's like the culture hasn't necessarily caught up with the reality of the situation. Because back in the day, the culture would suggest you need to buy a house. And housing was accessible to get into. But now, housing is not so accessible. And the culture hasn't necessarily switched to like, hey, with your ex extra income, go buy a house. It's, it should be, hey, with your extra income, go buy some stocks, like get involved in the stock market. But the, the culture to the same degree has not switched to investing in stocks as it once was in housing. Or it still kind of isn't housing. It's like the American dream, sort of, most people wanna be homeowners.

• 48:44Speaker 03

  But it's also different. The house they're buying is different. When people were buying their first house, when houses were accessible, it's like thousand square feet.

• 48:53Jack Selby?

  Starter homes.

• 48:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, a bedroom, two bed. Now that's a small condo. Those are the starter houses and you can buy a condo in many places still. But people want the starter home today, which is three bed, two bath, 2,000 square feet. It's like, it's not the same. Our culture has evolved on that part as well, where we have a new level of expectations. You remember the also crazy home loans that they're getting? What was it? Zero percent down on everything? When everyone came back from World War II, when everyone was able to get a house, well, it was more.

• 49:23Jack Selby?

  They also didn't have a lot of regulation back then in terms of building.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:27Jack Selby?

  Zoning was way easier and land was not as scarce.

• 49:31Speaker 03

  Places like Austin, Texas, baby. Housing costs going down because we build shit. We build. The amount of permits that are taking place in places like San Francisco, you can count on two hands. It's crazy. That's where they should be building shit is San Francisco. People wanna live there, but they won't because permitting is horrendous. Rent control is horrendous. Sounds great, doesn't actually work.

• 49:51Jack Selby?

  It's incredibly cheap right now to live with roommates. If you go on Facebook, there's a whole section there where you could live with roommates. And people are just looking for a roommate to take a bedroom. And the rent proportion that you would pay is significantly less than even if you were to split that rent with other people equally.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, but the argument would be.

• 50:08Jack Selby?

  Significantly less.

• 50:09Speaker 03

  The argument's gonna be, when they clip this is like. Yeah, but if we live in a good first world country, developed country, I shouldn't have to have roommates to survive. So.

• 50:21Graham Stephan?

  Jack has roommates.

• 50:23Speaker 03

  Well, should he have to have roommates to survive? He wouldn't need them now. But again, that's why.

• 50:28Graham Stephan?

  You just have to look at what the alternative is. Is the alternative that you spend 80% of your income on rent? I would argue that that's that's worse than living with roommates.

• 50:37Speaker 03

  Yes, it absolutely is. Don't get me wrong.

• 50:38Graham Stephan?

  And I think there are benefits of living with roommates. You constantly have companions. You constantly have buddies to be around.

• 50:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I'm not complaining, but I mean, that's what a lot of people would argue. And again, the expectation of housing is a lot more crazy. Their starter homes now are

• 50:53Speaker 03

  much more expensive, much larger than they were. That's why there's this project happening here in Austin with like, it's like the American Housing Company. It's a new startup. And they're building these like prefab, small starter homes. That's what's going to be accessible to people. That's the OG classic starter home. That's not what a lot of people want. You see your HGTV show when you grow up. You want the big house. I did. I thought my starter home, my starter home was crazy. $350,000? That shouldn't have been my starter home. It didn't need to be. Before I started YouTube. So.

• 51:24Graham Stephan?

  What I would love to see, I've been saying this for a while, two things. One is micro apartments. And I'm talking 300 square foot apartments that's just a studio, a kitchen, a bathroom, space for a bed that pulls down like a Murphy bed. And a really, really, really good walkable location.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  Walkable.

• 51:41Graham Stephan?

  People would love that, just to have their own space to go home and sleep at night. That's all I wanted. Cause I was working all day, go to the gym. I get back, I just want a place to sleep. That was it.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  And the demand shows that people want to live in those walkable areas too.

• 51:53Graham Stephan?

  The micro apartments would do so well. The other thing I think would do great is a big lot that just has small, tiny houses on it. I'm talking one, two bedrooms, one bathroom. The starter house, 900 square feet each, lined up along the end with a courtyard in the middle. Like you used to have these 1950s apartment buildings like this, but each one is detached. And people just pay an HOA of let's just say a hundred dollars a month for common area maintenance. That way everyone owns their own own home, kind of like a common in law ownership. Uh, but they share the expenses of of maintenance. And it's a home.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:28Graham Stephan?

  People could buy their own home.

• 52:30Speaker 03

  I honestly think politics is for once actually helping the American people on this one. Usually politics. Most things you see kind of works against the average guy. But what we're going to see in the 2030 census is red states, Florida,

• 52:46Speaker 03

  Arizona, Texas, taking Electoral College votes away from New York and California because we've built housing, we've done zoning reform, we've gotten rid of parking minimums. And this is actually starting to light a fire under those places. But California just did one of their biggest reforms in housing in decades, allowing more upzoning near transit centers.

• 53:08Jack Selby?

  With the abundance of opportunity around these days, which I think we all agree that there is, why do you think it is that people continue to feel like financial freedom is only getting further and further away?

• 53:19Speaker 03

  Consumer culture for sure. You want the nicer car, you want the nicer this, you want the nicer that. There's the house, housing situation that we talked about. Now a starter house is twice as big as the one previous. We want more and more and more, and we feel entitled to more and more and more. When you're a prosperous society, you feel like you should have that more. That's not necessarily an inherently bad thought, but it's hard to have all of that. And now where we're entering a tough job market for a time since the Great Recession, you know, a truly tough job market.

• 53:51Speaker 03

  A lot of things are going to feel inaccessible for a lot of people as well, especially with the inflation we saw around grocery prices. That's scary. Now wages are starting to outpace inflation, but it's going to take a lot to catch up.

• 54:01Jack Selby?

  What financial takes do you have that would anger most viewers even though they're true?

• 54:06Speaker 03

  Rent control sucks, doesn't work. It's performative though. I don't know if this is going down the spiral, so I don't want to go too deep.

• 54:14Jack Selby?

  No, no, yeah, I mean, I agree.

• 54:15Speaker 03

  It just, well, it hasn't worked. It's just one of those policies that sounds really good. It sounds really moral. I want to support it. Landlords, you make less money. People pay less and less, but everywhere it's been enacted. Permitting has gone down substantially. Rent's gone up even faster for the average person, except for the lucky few that are in subsidized housing or rent controlled housing. Units go un- Untouched, not being taken care of at all. I think it's like, it's like 10 or 20% of rent controlled units in New York have no one in it because they can't be brought up to standard because it's not worth investing in.

• 54:51Graham Stephan?

  That's vacancy control.

• 54:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. And in Massachusetts, they enacted rent control. It was a complete disaster. So they had to get rid of it. And then housing costs went down. Austin, Texas tried to do rent control decades ago. Texas said, you, housing costs are going down because we instead focused on, oh, you know, if you build housing, it's actually more affordable. San Francisco, housing costs went, the, the moment they enacted rent control, got worse, worse and worse. Hermione went down. It just has never worked. Even in certain cities in Minnesota, they enacted rent control and took it back a few years later.

• 55:23Graham Stephan?

  You know what I think all they need to do to solve their rent control problem is just two things. It's really easy. One is perhaps tie it to income so that you can't have someone making $500,000 a year in a rent controlled apartment, paying $2,000 a month on the beach. That makes no sense. The other thing is rent control should not be indefinite.

• 55:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, generational.

• 55:44Graham Stephan?

  I think it should be enacted only for, let's say, three to six years. Enough where someone could live there, have a base there, but it can't be indefinite to the point where the landlord passes away because they've lived there for such a long time, their kids inherit it. And then all of a sudden, this rent control is gone for like 50 years and the building is falling apart. It needs to be brought up to current market rate for the area to simply improve over time and for the landlord to have money to fix these things.

• 56:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, that's honestly, I don't talk about politics too much, but one reason I'm willing to talk about that is because I always rage against performative politics. It's a performative position. It sounds good. It feels good. It feels good to advocate for, fighting for the little guy. It has just never been enacted once in the history of literally any city that has been beneficial to the majority. Never. Not to keep off Austin, but one thing we do well here, no rent control. But we say, okay, if you're building an apartment complex, a small percentage have to be a part of this local government program. That's affordable housing units. And if you don't, there's just a little extra tax. So most do it, then you apply through the local government and you get in and it's been working. It's been helping people that works instead of a blanket thing across the board.

• 56:58Speaker 03

  That just up the entire permitting process and or just bad zoning laws in general. So that one pisses people off because you sound evil. You sound like you're pro landlord when you're like, ah, rent control actually doesn't work, but it just literally never has.

• 57:11Jack Selby?

  I think it's just pro common sense.

• 57:13Speaker 03

  You think so, but that's all it is.

• 57:14Jack Selby?

  People, nah. What other opinions do you have? That would make people angry. Yeah, yeah, that that are true about personal finance.

• 57:23Speaker 03

  That are true of our personal finance. Um.

• 57:27Speaker 03

  You're not, you don't need a credit card to that one and make people angry. Um.

• 57:35Speaker 03

  Not entitled to go out to eat. That might piss some people off, right? It's like, you're not entitled to that. I would love you to. I hope you can fit in the budget. Let's work together. Let's get you more money. Let's get your budget under control. But you're not entitled to go enjoy a nice sushi. Or a McDonald's like, so that might piss some people off. We have a lot of entitlement. Um, you don't need to get the fancy fancy, nice, perfect Whole Foods. And you can get the off brand for a little bit. And I off branded in college on the cheap. It's not great. No, it's not the best for health either, but it worked.

• 58:10Speaker 03

  It kind of pisses people off when you say, I get a 10,000 hour car right now. Instead of going and getting a 30,000 hour car because they're like, well, I just started a family and it's so much safer. It's like, okay, were cars just insanely dangerous three years ago? I don't, I don't think so. I don't think everyone was dying. I got in a car. So that sometimes pisses people off, but it is difficult because you need to take that car and actually get it checked out by a couple of independent mechanics. Like, I don't want you just walking out with a 30% interest rate loan on a 10,000 hour car. That's worth two and will break down in two days. Because when you say that, that's what people think you're trying to say. It's like, go get a piece of shit. It's like, no, you gotta do your research. Which means you might save more money by Ubering temporarily while you do your research.

• 58:49Speaker 03

  But people just have to go get the car immediately and they want the safer car. What about you?

• 58:55Graham Stephan?

  It's probably also with the housing. I don't believe that corporate landlords are necessarily bad. I don't think they're driving up housing prices and every piece of research has shown that they buy so little of the housing stock that it makes no difference whatsoever to the average person buying a house. But they are the biggest scapegoat out there that people like to point to Blackstone, who's always confused with Blackrock. Blackstone going out there buying up single family homes. Really what they're buying is rent to own communities that were built specifically for the purpose of renting. And if you remove that from the market, you actually hurt the market because you have less inventory out there. But they're the easiest to go after because it's like this faceless corporation

• 59:38Graham Stephan?

  who's buying up the houses when in reality, it has nothing to do with that. It was zero interest rates that froze a lot of people in the housing market. They're not building enough and everyone's vying for a house because it's sold as the American dream and that's what's actually driving up housing costs. But Blackstone or corporate institutional landlords are the easiest to blame because everyone just says, well, yeah, they shouldn't own a house. So it's easy.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  If I'm not mistaken, private equity that owns over 100 units owns less than 1% of single family homes.

• 1:00:10Graham Stephan?

  It's about 0.5% of single family rentals.

• 1:00:14Speaker 03

  Now to play devil's advocate, there were a couple markets specifically in like the COVID boom, like Austin or what was it Tampa or even even Atlanta where they came in and they bought like 25% of the available stock at one time.

• 1:00:28Graham Stephan?

  Eh, a lot of those were syndications, which were funded by a lot of everyday investors who thought that housing was a good thing to buy. I wouldn't say it's necessarily institutional money, but a lot of these syndicators, they just went out there and bought whatever they could on the market because raising money was so easy.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, that makes sense. It is the easiest scapegoat though. It really is because that's what Trump's executive order was. Instead of the most effective thing would be changing zoning laws around the country.

• 1:00:55Jack Selby?

  Also, my understanding is that supply can be increased because of the amount of institutional money going into development because a developer will not develop land unless if he knows for a fact that he'll have a buyer if he develops a neighborhood. And then a lot of the times they'll have a contract with the institutional money to then 100% I know I have a buyer. So then they go and they actually develop the land and increase the supply by building homes. Otherwise, the developments wouldn't get made.

• 1:01:20Speaker 03

  It should be the most bipartisan thing, honestly. Ours and D should get together. Everyone should be a Yimby. Yes, in my backyard. Let developers build where demand is.

• 1:01:28Jack Selby?

  Here's another one. This is gonna make people upset. I don't think that you are entitled to live anywhere just because you were raised there or your family has existed there for generations. It's a, I think, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's really, really controversial. People hate this idea. I grew up in Southern California. It was extremely expensive. I could hardly live there. And then we moved to Las Vegas because it was much more affordable. So we actually left a more expensive place for a cheaper place. People argue, yes, it was tax savings. Like, at the time, for me, it was financially difficult to live in California. For Grandma, it was more opportunistic of like moving to Las Vegas and the opportunity there and the savings there. For me, it was like, okay, this is nice because I can kind of afford things better.

• 1:02:10Jack Selby?

  But yeah, I think if you're born and raised in Manhattan, it's like Manhattan is just objectively expensive. You were blessed and lucky to be born and raised there in the first place. It's like, you kind of have to earn the right to like live in an expensive place in the same way that in a city, there's an expensive neighborhood and a cheaper neighborhood. It's like you can go to the cheaper neighborhood if you cannot afford the most expensive neighborhood.

• 1:02:30Graham Stephan?

  In fairness, I grew up in Santa Monica and I ended up for a while, living in like a really, I don't want to call it like a.

• 1:02:38Jack Selby?

  It was an up and coming area, we'll call it.

• 1:02:39Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, very up and coming. But that's where I bought because it made financial sense. I thought, hey, here's a, here's a space where I could rent out the other side. This works for me. I didn't need to live in Santa Monica at the time, but I did that. I paid my dues. I saved up and then eventually I bought in Santa Monica.

• 1:02:59Jack Selby?

  Also, like, what makes you more entitled to live in Manhattan than someone who was born and raised in like a rural Montana? Like, they're both, no, you know, like, it doesn't, it makes it harder for the person in Montana to move to Manhattan with that presumption.

• 1:03:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think a lot of people are gonna clip that, take it out of context and get really angry, but there's a, there's a absolutely truth to it because there's a lot of choices in life that lead you to your first rental, your first purchase. And I'm sorry, but if you grew up in a nice, middle-class family in a nice area that you could afford, if you got a good degree and good job, but you went and chose to get an arts degree.

• 1:03:37Speaker 03

  That was your choice to get an arts degree that might not result in that high income that's required to live there. So that's, that's not unfair. It's not unfair. It's brutal, but.

• 1:03:47Graham Stephan?

  So what is your number one financial piece of advice of all time? Now, really quick, a key way to grow your business is just to realize that you don't have to handle everything alone because the fastest growing companies aren't the ones working longer. They're just delegating more effectively.

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• 1:05:03Jack Selby?

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• 1:06:18Graham Stephan?

  So what is your number one financial piece of advice of all time?

• 1:06:22Speaker 03

  Come on, grow up the earlier, start the better. It's everything. I mean, I'm lucky enough to be able to see the, you know, the return on it, starting to really show its benefits, but.

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• 1:07:33Speaker 03

  You've really got to get rid of that high interest debt and get in the market, man. You gotta get in the market. Save on housing instead of getting a mortgage these days. Get a rental and invest. Please start investing, even if it's 50 bucks here and there.

• 1:07:46Graham Stephan?

  Hypothetical, let's say someone has 20% interest on a credit card. At what point should they invest?

• 1:07:52Speaker 03

  Once that's paid off. And I also wouldn't be throwing a ton of money to investing until I minimum had a three month emergency fund, preferably six. So.

• 1:08:00Jack Selby?

  If you were to distill down. The best piece of financial advice, let's say the top 10 pieces of financial advice you've ever received, and you're going to provide the viewer with one singular piece of advice where if they listen to what you say, it will have the highest return in their life. We can all think about it, and we're all gonna give our answer. So I guess it would be three pieces of advice. What would you say yours is?

• 1:08:20Speaker 03

  Stop being a punk. Take some actual responsibility for the first time in your damn life. Some people come from situations, and that sucks. But the vast majority of us in the highest disposable income major nation in the world have a lot of choices. Stop being a punk. Grow up. Take some accountability and budget. Budget.

• 1:08:43Graham Stephan?

  I would say just dollar-cost average, low-fee index funds consistently for 30 years. That's it.

• 1:08:50Jack Selby?

  I would say spend less than you make.

• 1:08:52Speaker 03

  Controversial. You'll get called a fascist for that one.

• 1:08:54Jack Selby?

  What?

• 1:08:55Speaker 03

  Thought you'd be surprised.

• 1:08:56Jack Selby?

  To say spend less than you make?

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  You'd be surprised.

• 1:08:59Jack Selby?

  So, okay, so let's just, let's just, the strongest counterargument, spend more than you make. What would the, what would the argument for that be?

• 1:09:07Speaker 03

  Well, you need that to survive. You should be able to go out and have a good time with your friends. You should be able to have the place you want to live, live in the city that you were born in.

• 1:09:16Jack Selby?

  But if the desired result is financial freedom, then how will that get you there? It's like one or the other, right?

• 1:09:20Speaker 03

  Well, in this capitalist society, that's evil.

• 1:09:23Jack Selby?

  I forgot.

• 1:09:24Speaker 03

  So, should I use your thinking brain?

• 1:09:27Graham Stephan?

  What do you think of the criticism that sometimes you're too harsh on the guests?

• 1:09:31Speaker 03

  Yes, absolutely. Of course we are. One, it's a show. Two, they come on and they literally ask for it and beg for it. I just filmed with the guest before this, and I was like, do I have permission to make the title and thumbnail that you went through? And she was like, please, be crazy. It's like, so it's just like, I don't know, too harsh on a guest. Don't come on the show if you don't want it. Don't come on the show if you don't want it. Don't get offended on the behalf of someone who's not offended in the first place. And if this show's not for you, that's okay.

• 1:09:55Graham Stephan?

  Now, we predicted that a while ago, you're going in the direction of Jerry Springer.

• 1:10:00Speaker 03

  Caleb Springer, thank you.

• 1:10:01Graham Stephan?

  Caleb Springer.

• 1:10:04Graham Stephan?

  Isn't there a limit to just how far you could push things?

• 1:10:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, and we're probably there. Like, we don't get anything cra- we haven't gotten anything crazier than we've done in the last year. We've honestly, the show's been where it is today in the last year and a half. So it's very interesting because you'll get some of these in your comments right now. Some of the, oh, I used to be a fan and tell you it was too mean. I'll, I'll get. It goes on a cycle. For three weeks, I'll get Caleb's being more mean than normal and Caleb's being nicer than normal. He should be meaner to that guest. Caleb's being meaner than normal, nicer. It's just, it's an endless repeat. The show's been about the same for a year and a half to two years. Even with the titles, our titles actually used to be more mean and whatnot, but. Um, yeah. Uh, since I embraced the Springer, now they're trying to throw a new insult at me, calling me Dr. Phil. So I guess I'm Caleb Phil. It's not as.

• 1:10:45Graham Stephan?

  But where do you draw the line? Between like genuine helping them and just like bullying them?

• 1:10:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, if we weren't seeing positive results in the end, because at least we track it analytically. We track it analytically. Tw- over 20,000 hours of bad debt paid off in 12 months is the average on the show. 10,000 in 10 months is the mean. So we get an annual report that we do surveying all our last guests. And if we were actually seeing negative impacts in people's lives, like we would readjust behind the scenes.

• 1:11:12Graham Stephan?

  What do you attribute that to? Do you think that's them coming on the show and in a sense is being a little humiliated? Or do you feel like the people that come on the show to begin with, show a genuine interest in turning their life around?

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  They have a genuine interest. They come on the show that in a lot of times it's their first time. They actually get a wake up call and a fire to the butt, especially when their episode goes live and they're, they're seeing like, oh, this person's kind of financially. It's like, they have that incentive. They want to do better. And there's many people that doesn't work for, but don't come on the show. So that's fine.

• 1:11:43Graham Stephan?

  Is it just accountability where they go on the show and people call them out and now they feel like I have to make a change?

• 1:11:50Speaker 03

  Yes, that's a part of it. But there is the other part as well, where we've created a lot of educational resources. They get the Dollar Wise app for free. They get all of our classes in our Master Your Money program for free, which is five different. In-depth professionally curated personal finance courses. They get our course career certifications. They get access to a debit card that builds credit called FIZ. They get access to a lot of resources. Even on the extra special cases, I have them sit down with a CPA, financial advisor, or I've paid for people's therapy as well, if that's what they need. So we do go above and beyond. We ask their questions behind the scenes. So it's a lot of that. But when it comes back to the bullying versus actually helping, I think it's bullying. If it was like a random person I'm pulling off the side of the street that knows nothing about the show. And I'm just like, hi, you shorty. Like, I'm not saying that, you know?

• 1:12:35Speaker 03

  It's like, it's people that signed up and people come in with a wish list of like my catchphrases. I don't know them, but they usually tell the producer like, oh, I hope he calls me, you know, a little or something. And I'm like, I don't know. It's a part of the fun of the show. They sign up for the fun. We have fun.

• 1:12:52Graham Stephan?

  Walk us through the vetting process in terms of like finding the people, scanning through them, making sure they pass the checks.

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:59Graham Stephan?

  Who talks to them beforehand? How does this even work?

• 1:13:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's very in-depth. One, they apply either through the ad, but it's targeting people on the show. Uh, or they apply through the link in the description or through the website, galepam.com/apply. And we get hundreds a day, hundreds upon hundreds a day. When you guys first filmed the thing, I think it was like 40 a day. Now it's hundreds. They immediately go into a spreadsheet with all the information they give. Uh, our casting team of three people look over them, start putting people into a column of, oh, we're interested in this. We're interested in this, whether it's their story or whether it's their finances, but both have to be good in the end. Then it goes to our initial touch point. She's in one of our call pods all day, just making those initial touch points to see, hey, you applied. Are you actually interested in coming on the show? You know, the show's kind of crazy.

• 1:13:46Speaker 03

  Are you sure you want to deal with all that? Uh, you know, okay, give me some information about your finances. Can you send me your documents? Here's a couple of questions I had about your application. It's a quick 10 minute phone call, just seeing if they're interested and they're actually valid. Then they get off the call with that. And then we actually capture their financial documents if that call went well. So we review those to see if their finances are interesting enough to come on the show. Then whoever, whatever casting producer is assigned to that episode, we have two, Colton and Lindsay. They will have in-depth conversations with them, talking about their entire lives, their entire finances, things they don't want to talk about, and honestly putting the fear. The fear of God into them that they are going to be roasted upon roasted,

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  that they are going to be memed upon memed and be seen by millions and be commented and all these different things, titles and thumbnails. So they have usually a four to five hour or six hour, depending on the conversation, talk with the guests. Then we send them our first onboarding video where it goes with, hey, I'm glad we accepted you to come on the show, but you need to know a couple of things. You're gonna get memed on, you're gonna be seen by millions, you're gonna get roasted, your personal finances are on display. You need to tell us, right? Or actually start thinking right now about things you do not want to be on the show because we're gonna need you, we're gonna need you to tell us once you come here. And also, don't come on if you're not uncomfortable. If you're not comfortable with this, just let us know. Let us

• 1:15:13Speaker 03

  know now. It's okay. You don't have to come here. It's fine.

• 1:15:16Jack Selby?

  Could you give us examples of things that people have asked not to talk about?

• 1:15:19Speaker 03

  Only fans for men all the time. Lots of direct family things. People will say loans from family instead of like it's from mom, it's from this, certain past traumas that they don't want to talk about, which are fair. And that's, and because people bring those up when you asked earlier, what we cut for people sometimes, it's some of those things that might be a little embarrassing. We're like, ooh, I don't know if I'd want my situation to be out. So we cut that for them later. So usually things like that. We also check in the process, I forgot to mention, like egregious mental health things. If people obviously can't make good decisions for themselves, or people have horrible traumas that might be triggered from this, we're like, hey, you cannot come on, or like, hey, this is like, this might trigger some, you probably shouldn't come on. We give them that advice as well, the producers.

• 1:16:03Jack Selby?

  What percent of people drop out through the vetting process?

• 1:16:06Speaker 03

  I actually don't know at this point because luckily I've delegated, I have such an incredible team at this point of 30 plus people at Hammer Media that luckily I don't have to be a part of that process as much. So I don't know.

• 1:16:18Jack Selby?

  And what percent of the episodes that you filmed, do you choose to not post?

• 1:16:21Speaker 03

  Almost none these days. Almost none. Or everything.

• 1:16:26Speaker 03

  We have so many people applying that we pretty much know we have a good uploadable episode these days, so much so that we've become so confident that we only film three a week now, even though we post three a week.

• 1:16:35Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 1:16:36Speaker 03

  It used to be four, but now we do three. We have a month's backlog, a full month of uploads, so four weeks, three episodes.

• 1:16:43Graham Stephan?

  How much are you working?

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  A lot and a lot of off hours as well. Everyone's here nine to five, Monday through Friday, and we'll do some Saturdays here and there for some random things like members audits or a long live stream.

• 1:16:55Speaker 03

  And then I work off hours. I have a little passion project right now on a documentary channel I'm doing, but I'm doing that in my own time. The Dollar Wise stuff is pretty crazy. It's been hectic, you know.

• 1:17:05Graham Stephan?

  How many hours would you say per week?

• 1:17:06Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, that's a, okay, fair enough. Fifty for me. Okay, for me.

• 1:17:12Graham Stephan?

  That's not that bad.

• 1:17:13Speaker 03

  No, it's not that bad. I brought it down and I really tried to give more time for girlfriend. Cause that's important. You don't keep girlfriend around if you don't give time to girlfriend.

• 1:17:23Graham Stephan?

  We're going to talk about the girlfriend a little later because I got some questions about this, but do you ever worry in terms of the show that sometimes the entertainment overshadows the help or the financial aspect of it?

• 1:17:35Speaker 03

  Uh, no, personally, because there's thousands of shows out there. Money Guy has a great show that is education first. Ramsey's a good mixture. I'm a slop consumer, so I love slop. Me and my girlfriend, we watch all the ninety day fiance shows. We love that shit. I love it. So I love having some of the drama, some of the tea, but it's also a great way, as silly as it is, in the first part of the episode, maybe even first half now, it's like more of that kind of stuff and then tell it gets into the documents. But it's actually benefited me a lot, not only because it's fun, but because I really get to know them and I'm able to challenge them on a lot of their they talk about because of everything I got to know first.

• 1:18:17Speaker 03

  And it gives a really big baseline understanding of their life, their history, their relationships, and things that got them in that financial situation. But don't get me wrong. I mean, we totally, and again, this is some of the complaints you'll have in the comments right now, like, oh, I used to be a day one fan, I think is what they're called. And I don't like how the show's become like, that's fine. And we have the analytics behind it. Luckily, the vast majority of original subscribers are still happy and watching, but either way, yeah, I mean, it's moved to more fun. One, I do not think I could do a show this frequently. If I wasn't having a good time, I really don't. I don't think there's, I don't, I wouldn't be incentivized to do it. So I'm going to have fun doing this. My team's going to have fun doing this. Guests are going to have fun doing this.

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  But then on the help part, again, if the analytics weren't there about guests getting help, then I would actually reassess what we're doing. Luckily, they get better and better every single year and we are getting nothing but positive experiences from guests these days. Like, you know, a couple of years ago, when it was less crazy, or even when I got my first producer and he was a really bad hire. There was like a couple of guests experiences where they weren't as happy afterwards, but so if things weren't looking good, I'd be concerned there.

• 1:19:23Jack Selby?

  Okay.

• 1:19:23Speaker 03

  But I have fun. I like to have fun.

• 1:19:27Speaker 03

  I support the Caleb Springer and the slop and Money Guy is a great resource. I am friends with Brian and Bo. If you want strictly finances.

• 1:19:35Jack Selby?

  What's your favorite and least favorite part of your job?

• 1:19:38Speaker 03

  Favorite? Love working on anything on the business end. That's what I really like working on. I like scaling this thing the dollar wise. The educational programs we're doing, Caleb Hammer Live was fun for a second. We're revamping that after I got a little naughty. And working out, it's my fun. It is the most fun to me, building something from nothing. Financial audit is still fun to do, especially on, once I'm deep in the episode. Or we're making titles and thumbnails and it's going live and I get to manage that. But financial audit itself isn't as fun as everything else because it's already successful.

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  So I can't get in there, just like make it, you know, crazy off. I don't get to, you know, really lock in and go hard as a whole team. It's a well running machine.

• 1:20:27Speaker 03

  My least favorite job, and this is more just being an introvert, is actually coming into film the financial audit. Cause I don't know that person. I've never met that person. I hope the episode's going well, but I gotta get to know this person. I don't really like getting to know people. This is not a part of my personality. We're going to dinner with someone later. I don't know this dude. Like it's going to take me a second to kind of come out of my shell, you know, I'm just that introverted kind of person. So the first 15, 20 minutes of filming is actually my least favorite part, but then I love the second half of filming, once I know them.

• 1:20:55Jack Selby?

  And what about the drama? Like, how are you? Always in the epicenter of some drama. I feel like

• 1:21:02Graham Stephan?

  There's always something going on.

• 1:21:03Speaker 03

  On the internet?

• 1:21:04Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 1:21:04Jack Selby?

  Yes, I see you on Twitter.

• 1:21:06Speaker 03

  I'm controversial.

• 1:21:06Jack Selby?

  Yeah, but I see you on Twitter. I'm like, what is Caleb doing on Twitter? Because people are here accusing you. Look at this right wing grifter. Look at this left wing grifter. This guy has no idea what he's talking about. You're just always wrapped up in some sort of drama.

• 1:21:19Speaker 03

  Well, it's interesting on Caleb Hammer Live, where we talked about more relevant topics. I took left wing positions and right wing positions, which means right wingers thought I was left wing and left wingers thought I was right wing. I'm not the, the classic centrist. I'll never take an opinion. No, but I'll go either way depending on where the facts are, you know, for me. So that makes everyone angry. And also I'm controversial. We say, you know, I say, I say, I say, cause I That upsets some people. That's upset some of the like slop commentary community that kind of copies and paste the same arguments, even though they're not really good over and over again.

• 1:21:53Graham Stephan?

  Why say those things? Because I feel like you could get 99.99% of the result without calling someone a

• 1:22:00Speaker 03

  It's not the result. It's honestly

• 1:22:02Graham Stephan?

  It's just you.

• 1:22:03Speaker 03

  Kind of. It is a part of the humor I like. I love the outrage humor. When I go to, I love going to stand up shows in Austin. And the stand up community in Austin is a bit more edgy and I love that edgy. I love edgy. This most I get from this daily basis is still edgy, being edgy as fuck, getting people's outrage in a group chat from 10 years ago. Oh, crazy. It's like, that's just me. I love being edgy and that is not for everyone. But one thing I learned in reflecting from, uh, uh, you know, kind of reacting and being upset at those people being offended, um, through friend of the show Nicholas Diorio, great commentary, uh, creator. He was like,

• 1:22:44Speaker 03

  why be worried about these people being upset at what you're saying? You're never going to win them over. They're never going to be the fans of your show and they're never going to like the jokes you do. Why care?

• 1:22:56Graham Stephan?

  But why do you, why do you respond to some of these?

• 1:22:58Speaker 03

  Well, I did. And then he said that and I listened and I was like, oh, he's right. Like.

• 1:23:02Graham Stephan?

  When was this?

• 1:23:03Speaker 03

  A few weeks ago, a couple of weeks ago.

• 1:23:05Graham Stephan?

  So it was until a few weeks ago that you just?

• 1:23:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:08Graham Stephan?

  Okay. Cause it seems like sometimes you have this visceral reaction where if someone comes at you with something, you, you respond to it and you kind of pour gasoline. Yeah.

• 1:23:18Speaker 03

  I'm an over the top person. I mean, I am. And people said I crashed out too, which is interesting because they ever watched the show? That's just the energy from that show. But of course, because it was so long, the four hour thing I did, no one actually watched that to hear my points. They only saw what, who I was responding to selectively clipped. So it was fine. Whatever. I accept it. I'm taking it on the chin. But it's just like, I do have a, there is sportsmanship in it. I do have some fun with it for what it's worth. I like a good battle. But Diorio was right. It's like, they're never going to be fans of the humor and jokes. Why cater to them? Why try to win them over? It's fine.

• 1:23:54Graham Stephan?

  So to live, throw you into some more drama, who is it worse to have more hate coming from the right or the left?

• 1:24:02Speaker 03

  Right now, the left. I would have been more afraid of the right during like the Obama days. Cause they like, they're scary. The right was scary during the Obama, the extremists. I hate extremists. But right now, um, those communities like the slop commentary that copy and paste the same videos over and over again, their audiences are vicious. The DMs I've gotten, the comments I've gotten.

• 1:24:23Graham Stephan?

  What do they say?

• 1:24:24Speaker 03

  Tell me to kill myself and all this. It's, it's crazy. I've never seen it. They're vicious. And that doesn't mean I think like the left wing is vicious, but I think the far left can be pretty vicious online. It's like if you disagree with point 5% of the things, like they'll throw you from the community. So those creators eat each other alive all the time. You see it in all the big dramas between Hassan, Destiny, Ethan. Like they'll eat each other alive for not even a crazy disagreements. Yeah. Um, so I mean, it's, it's going to go back and forth. I mean, if I pissed off like the far right, I might be afraid because they're probably the ones that. But the most vicious attacks I've gotten have been from the far left. But I'm not scared. I'm not scared or nervous of the normal left or normal right.

• 1:25:09Speaker 03

  Cause those people are fine. I meet them every day. On the show and out in Austin, when they come up and say, hi, it's like, you know, oh, we might not agree on everything, but I'm a big fan of the show. And I'm like, you don't even know what I believe because I don't say it. Um, but it's fine. Like everyone's cool, but the extremists are scary.

• 1:25:25Graham Stephan?

  Do you think the people that come on your show are more left leaning or right leaning? And does that have any indication of how good they are with personal finances?

• 1:25:33Speaker 03

  And I'll say this to the, uh, people that come on the show that are left leaning, they embrace it on the show. Everyone that's come on the right, they say, I don't want to talk, talk about politics on the show. That's my no go. So you'll never know they're on the right.

• 1:25:44Graham Stephan?

  Huh.

• 1:25:44Speaker 03

  They're kind of pussies about it. People on the left are willing to come on the show and they're willing to just put it on full display. So it's easier to memon because they actually talk about it. People that have come on the right, they're like, I don't want to talk about.

• 1:25:54Graham Stephan?

  Why do you think that is?

• 1:25:56Speaker 03

  Well, there was definitely like back in like the 2020 times, if like you had a right wing position, you know, there's, you know, potential like nervous at workplace about it, but that's not where we are anymore. So I don't know why they're pussies.

• 1:26:07Graham Stephan?

  Um. Do you think it's completely swapped from that?

• 1:26:11Speaker 03

  Or if you have a left wing opinion, consequences at work?

• 1:26:13Graham Stephan?

  No, we're like, you know, either way, or let's just say you're sharing a conservative opinion in the workplace. Do you think that it's completely acceptable now?

• 1:26:22Speaker 03

  I mean, honestly, I, I don't know. We, we have people, we have like far leftists and people pretty right on that work here and we don't give a shit. But I, I don't know. I can't speak for everyone. I know our culture is at least.

• 1:26:36Speaker 03

  Corrected from that era of like the hyper analyzing everyone and Twitter, Twitter and Tik Tok still tries to.

• 1:26:42Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:43Speaker 03

  They think they're powerful, but sponsors don't care about them anymore. Jobs don't care about them anymore. They have no impact.

• 1:26:50Graham Stephan?

  Who do you think is worse with money, the left or the right?

• 1:26:53Speaker 03

  Uh, usually when it comes to people that have come on the show, the left. People on the left on the show tend to be worse.

• 1:27:01Graham Stephan?

  What would you say is a percentage, like 70% left, 30% right, or is it like 60, 40?

• 1:27:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh shit. Maybe like 70, 70 to the left. I don't know if that applies out in the real world, but I mean, I do a lot. Ideology and I hate ideologies, but I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole. But ideology, the right does tend to be more personal responsibility. So that.

• 1:27:28Speaker 03

  You know, kind of come personal finances fits easier in that than the left.

• 1:27:32Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:32Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:27:33Graham Stephan?

  Have you ever filmed an episode and then watched it back and thought that you went too far?

• 1:27:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz we filmed this. Alive for us, right? And if I'm having a bad day, it comes across. It legitimately does. I also have, I watched episodes where I'm like, why was I so soft on the person? What the is wrong with you? I was being a pussy. So yeah, absolutely. For sure. Where I've gone too in, too in on someone for no reason. We used to have more of those when I was doing double days, filming in the morning and afternoon. So glad we don't do this anymore cuz my afternoon episodes, I was much more on the edge.

• 1:28:07Graham Stephan?

  What do you think people should call you out about? Because you call them out about stuff.

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  So I'm telling people to get their personal finances under control, but I'm a fat.

• 1:28:19Speaker 03

  Um. I don't need to be trying to scale the business in the way I can. I could just be happy collecting a YouTube check. Don't need to get a big building with a big lease and all these employees and whatnot. Whenever I post a company picture, people are like, why is a YouTube channel need this many? People and it's relatively fair, but I like to pay well. I like to scale this thing. Um, and it's okay. It's when people say I'm too mean or the titles and some of those are bad. They're not wrong. This is not for them and that's okay. Like it. It's okay. Don't come on the show. Don't watch the show. When I don't like something, I don't watch it. I don't go on the shows I don't like. If I didn't like you guys' show, I wouldn't be on the show. Um, so it's like, that's not inherently a wrong opinion to have. I don't agree with it. Cuz I come from not being offended by everything, but.

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  You know, it's fine. They could criticize me on that.

• 1:29:07Graham Stephan?

  What's your overhead?

• 1:29:08Speaker 03

  Oh, chunky. She's chunky. She's chunky. Hundreds of thousands.

• 1:29:12Graham Stephan?

  Hundreds of thousands of dollars a month.

• 1:29:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:16Graham Stephan?

  And what do you do?

• 1:29:17Speaker 03

  I think about three.

• 1:29:19Graham Stephan?

  Three hundred thousand dollars a month.

• 1:29:21Speaker 03

  I think.

• 1:29:22Graham Stephan?

  What do you do to make sure that your employees are investing? Or do you just have to learn to not care about that?

• 1:29:27Speaker 03

  That my employees are investing in their job?

• 1:29:30Jack Selby?

  No, no, no. Investing like personal finance, like buying stocks.

• 1:29:33Speaker 03

  That's on them, man.

• 1:29:34Jack Selby?

  So you, but so I've always noticed.

• 1:29:36Speaker 03

  Provide a 401k match to encourage it.

• 1:29:38Jack Selby?

  Does everyone in your organization agree to it?

• 1:29:41Speaker 03

  Do they take it? I don't know. I don't ask. I don't want to get that personal into their.

• 1:29:45Jack Selby?

  Yeah, it might not be Caleb's place to tell people. I mean, I guess it's different. It's different for us because we kind of like work with a lot of our friends. And so like I feel somewhat like I feel passionate about making sure that like, hey, you know, like if one of our contractors, person we take jobs with is not investing some of their money, like, hey, you know, like I'm annoying with it. I'm like, you should maybe consider doing a dollar cost average into a low cost index fund. And so I feel passionate about it, but I'm just curious as someone who employs a lot of people, is this not really something that that you think about?

• 1:30:15Speaker 03

  For the majority, no. I mean, I've become friendly and close with some. And, you know, we have individual conversations for fun.

• 1:30:23Speaker 03

  Or we roast each other's financial decisions. But I hope for the best majority, but we encourage it. We encourage it with a 401k match. I don't remember if it's three or 4%, but it's, I hope they're doing well. Good luck. We certainly pay them enough to do well.

• 1:30:37Jack Selby?

  This is a near impossible question, but what percentage of someone's financial status is a result of their behavior? Or the environment that they're in?

• 1:30:47Speaker 03

  Behavior will pull harder in the end. Behavior will pull harder, but you could come from a situation that you have to give 10 times the behavior than any of us have been through to actually pull yourself out. If you're in the projects of Flint, Michigan or something, that's hard. If you had lead in your water and you have some, you know, deficiencies because of that, that's hard. Not as much behavior comes from that. But I think for the vast majority of Americans, where people are not going hungry, our poorest people are fat.

• 1:31:22Speaker 03

  Behavior is going to be the bigger determining factor for the majority, but there are situations in full poverty, povertyville, West Virginia, Appalachia, that is gonna be difficult and that is going to be harder than any situation that anyone else is going through, going through, being in a town where 80% of the jobs, 80% of the people went away, heroin came through, and dealt a lot of the town, that's gonna be hard.

• 1:31:48Jack Selby?

  Which situations are excusable then? Like you said, the Appalachia.

• 1:31:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's more excusable, it's more understandable, I should say, than excusable, because once, again, I think once someone gets over the ignorance and knows what they have to do, if they know what they have to do and they've laid out the path of how to get there and they're choosing not to, then that's just them choosing, to a certain extent. But it's understandable than excusable, more than excusable.

• 1:32:13Jack Selby?

  What would you, I had a debate with a friend, what would you do if you were a person in like rural Appalachia that has no opportunities, an opportunity desert? Or let's say you're in Flint, Michigan, let's say you're just in a place, not a big city, rural environment, not many job opportunities, not great education, what do you do?

• 1:32:34Speaker 03

  Join a gang.

• 1:32:35Jack Selby?

  Okay, and then?

• 1:32:36Speaker 03

  Honestly, probably, that's where you get.

• 1:32:37Jack Selby?

  And then scale up to be the kingpin?

• 1:32:39Speaker 03

  I mean, that's a genuine, real answer in a lot of, not maybe not Appalachia, but in the more urban, poor places, that's where community is, that's where money is, that's where resources is.

• 1:32:48Jack Selby?

  Okay, no, no, no, no.

• 1:32:49Speaker 03

  I'm not advocating for it, but I could.

• 1:32:51Jack Selby?

  No, but like, okay, but what should you do? Let's not, yeah, I'm not saying like, what's the result?

• 1:32:55Speaker 03

  What should you do?

• 1:32:56Jack Selby?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:57Speaker 03

  Okay, what should you do?

• 1:32:58Jack Selby?

  I meant like, what should you, I don't know if it came off that way, but. That's what I, that's what I thought.

• 1:33:03Speaker 03

  Oh, okay, a couple, a couple of different avenues, certainly the buckle down, if your school system sucks, you know, it's hard, but usually states do allow those poorer school districts, if you're in like a top percentage, you might get automatic enrollment and whatnot into some universities, so really buckling down the best you can do, get good grades in school and try to get the, out of there. Military is a decent option, kinda sucks, you know, people quit it to like the Hunger Games just to get college education, I don't necessarily see it as that, but it is an option for anyone and everyone who grows up in these communities, as long as, you know, you're keeping healthy, keeping straight, so. Those are, those are two decent, not perfect, easier said than done answers.

• 1:33:46Speaker 00

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• 1:34:17Speaker 04

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• 1:34:45Speaker 03

  And not as fun as joining a gang.

• 1:34:47Graham Stephan?

  In terms of having couples on the show, who should pay on the first date?

• 1:34:51Speaker 03

  I'll pay on the first date if I think there's a future there.

• 1:34:54Graham Stephan?

  You know what I always think is a good thing to do is that you kind of pay on the first date. But then what you could do is throw out like, actually, let's do dinner. And you get the dinner and then you could throw out, there's actually a really good dessert spot like down the street. How about this? I'll get dinner, you get the dessert. And the dessert's not going to be like a big thing. It's just going to be like, you know, 10 bucks. And it just shows that like, hey, it's a, you know, it doesn't have to be a 50 50, but like you get the dessert. Or like, how about this? I get the first two rounds of drinks, you get the third. And it's just like a little something. So you say that, you will verbally say that? Yeah.

• 1:35:29Speaker 03

  To give the honest answer, I mean, I was trying to give a fun answer, but to give the honest answer, usually I just take care of the bill because, okay, I have money, it's fine. But what I like to have done historically is split the bill on the first date until we know kind of where we're going.

• 1:35:43Graham Stephan?

  And you say it?

• 1:35:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm just like, hey, I like to split the bill on the first date because, you know, it's just like, yeah, we're both here. Who knows what, you know, whatever. It's like, let's split it.

• 1:35:51Graham Stephan?

  And do you think that that is a pretty good rule that most should apply?

• 1:35:55Speaker 03

  I think for a first date, because you don't know if like the other person's just trying to. I don't think people just go on dates for free meals anymore, do they?

• 1:36:02Graham Stephan?

  No. I'm sure, I'm sure it exists, but my thought is for a woman to spend time with a stranger. It's not worth it. Unless it's like a, like a three Michelin star, like I could see that. But, but even then, for someone to like, put the time and effort into like getting ready, vet someone, make sure they're not a stalker or a creeper, like all the time that they put into that is not worth a free meal.

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  I'll be honest, this is the most I've ever thought about this because it really doesn't matter, but I guess who, who gives up? Can that be the real answer?

• 1:36:36Graham Stephan?

  To some people, this could be a very important question. When should you bring up finances if you're dating?

• 1:36:42Speaker 03

  Before moving in at the latest. Before you move in with each other.

• 1:36:47Graham Stephan?

  When's the earliest?

• 1:36:48Speaker 03

  Earliest? Depends how, depends how fun you are. People I've gone on dates with in the past few years, they've, because they know who I am or they look me up, they'll like bring it up in a cheeky way. And be like, oh, by the way, I don't, I don't have any credit card debt and that kind of stuff. So, but for like the normal person, I think,

• 1:37:07Speaker 03

  past the official stage.

• 1:37:11Speaker 03

  One month official? Seems easy.

• 1:37:13Graham Stephan?

  Past the official stage? So you've already committed to the person and then you bring up finances?

• 1:37:16Speaker 03

  Well, you're committing not to others really in the end, right? If you're kind of going official.

• 1:37:20Graham Stephan?

  I think third date.

• 1:37:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:22Graham Stephan?

  Third date.

• 1:37:23Speaker 03

  Oh wait, to bring up any finances at all?

• 1:37:25Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:25Speaker 03

  What extent? What level?

• 1:37:27Graham Stephan?

  Just like how good they are with money and you could bring it up gently, like, oh yeah, where'd you, where'd you go to college? Oh man, that's a great school. How'd you finance that? Did you, did you pay for it or like?

• 1:37:37Speaker 03

  Third.

• 1:37:37Graham Stephan?

  Or you could say, hey, by the way, what's in your wallet? And you could say, you know, here's how you could bring it up. You could say, listen, someone's wallet actually tells a lot about them. What's in their wallet? Can I see?

• 1:37:47Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, if you want to manipulate them.

• 1:37:49Graham Stephan?

  What are you talking about? If they're a moron, they'll believe that's what you're asking about. No. If they are dumb. And then all of a sudden you take out the credit cards. You're like, oh wait, oh, you have the Amex Platinum. Oh, that's interesting. What was your first Amex card?

• 1:38:02Jack Selby?

  It's been way too long since Graham's been like out of the dating pool. Clearly.

• 1:38:06Graham Stephan?

  Does that not work?

• 1:38:07Jack Selby?

  What even is that dude? Like, I feel like if a girl's like, if you're trying to like show off that you have an Amex Platinum, that is the maximum cringey thing.

• 1:38:15Graham Stephan?

  I'm not showing mine. I'm just saying for the other person. I say this to them. What's in your wallet says a lot about you. And she'll be like, no.

• 1:38:25Jack Selby?

  Okay, well, there we go. What are we even talking about then? If you're saying something you've never done.

• 1:38:29Graham Stephan?

  I'm just saying it would work. It would work.

• 1:38:31Jack Selby?

  Okay, let's just say to have a conversation of like, how much are you earning? What kind of debt do you have? You know, what is your financial goal?

• 1:38:37Speaker 03

  Okay, what kind of debt, financial goals, month in? Let's call it a month or two in.

• 1:38:40Jack Selby?

  A month into being official.

• 1:38:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's fine. In terms of like, what's your job? I think, you know, that's an easy first date.

• 1:38:46Jack Selby?

  And do you think it's a necessity to have that conversation early on? Because you talk with a lot of people that are in relationships in financial duress.

• 1:38:52Speaker 03

  Hmm. I would try to get like little niblets along the way to just see if they're responsible. Because they could be financially, but you know, but a relatively responsible person that wants to get out of it. And I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. Uh, someone doesn't need to be wealthy or doing well. But if they're just endlessly irresponsible, which you pick up clues along the way. That's a easy red flag to be like, okay, well, let's not commit any further to this.

• 1:39:18Jack Selby?

  And so you have a girlfriend now. How long until you guys had that conversation?

• 1:39:22Speaker 03

  I don't remember. Again, I think with my situation, it cheekily came up a lot quicker. So honestly, probably in the first few dates.

• 1:39:30Jack Selby?

  And how long have you been talking to her?

• 1:39:32Speaker 03

  Uh, we've been official for a year and six days.

• 1:39:38Jack Selby?

  And does she pay for anything?

• 1:39:41Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:39:42Jack Selby?

  So it is beyond that?

• 1:39:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's because, I mean, I don't see the purpose. I mean, she tries to, she offers to, but I'm like, eh, there's no point.

• 1:39:50Jack Selby?

  When's the last time you let her pay for something?

• 1:39:52Speaker 03

  She bought me a Valentine's Day gift.

• 1:39:54Jack Selby?

  What about on like Christmas or like a birthday?

• 1:39:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, those are, those are a little different.

• 1:39:58Jack Selby?

  Just like a date, like you guys are going out on a date.

• 1:40:00Speaker 03

  Man, I don't remember.

• 1:40:02Jack Selby?

  What about you, Graham?

• 1:40:04Graham Stephan?

  Uh, oh gosh, Macy's all the time.

• 1:40:08Jack Selby?

  Really?

• 1:40:08Graham Stephan?

  But yeah, but she sneaks it. So we'll go out to dinner and then she'll be like, oh, hold on, I gotta go to the bathroom and come back and the bill is paid. And this is, this is not a one off.

• 1:40:21Jack Selby?

  Graham's like the best day ever.

• 1:40:22Graham Stephan?

  It's awesome. But it, I always offer for everything, but sometimes it's just, she is quicker or very sneaky, or when I even anticipate and all try to do it, even the server's like, hey, sorry, it's already been taken care of. And there's even been a few times where this has happened and the server's like, no, someone else has paid. I'm like, neither one of us? Yes, someone else paid for your bill. A subscriber. So, so there have been times out there where we've gone out to eat and I feel bad because then I'm like, I didn't even know who it was.

• 1:40:54Jack Selby?

  Yeah, it's a bummer.

• 1:40:56Graham Stephan?

  So then it's neither one of us.

• 1:40:59Jack Selby?

  See, Graham does not see that as a bummer. Caleb's like, that's a bummer. Graham's like, I know about that.

• 1:41:05Graham Stephan?

  Actually.

• 1:41:06Speaker 03

  I don't know. I like to cover it. Not very like trad or traditional and a lot of things like that, but I don't know. It's nice.

• 1:41:12Graham Stephan?

  So what are the red flags that you see in couples when it comes to money?

• 1:41:16Speaker 03

  When each other don't know each other's financial situation, because there's no one who comes on this show that isn't at least in the position where they should have had that talk, where they have a completely different worldview on goals, spending, desires, where they want to be as a couple. He, it's like, if you are not even aligned on that, what are we doing? Get aligned or get the out. Um, and then the next one would be just like not knowing where the other one's spending is going and immediately throwing accusations to the other person's way. Like you're spending on this, we're spending on this. It's like, why are we looking at it like this? Why are we just trying to come together and get better together and hold each other accountable instead of just trying to throw each other under the bus?

• 1:41:52Jack Selby?

  What about success in relationships in situations where there's a big income gap? If the guy makes a lot more than the girl or the girl makes a lot more than the guy? What have you noticed there?

• 1:42:04Speaker 03

  Well, we've on the big gaps, we've had a couple of times where the lower income person, which I think both times is actually the woman, which is kind of unfair jealousy. Some weird jealousy there. Don't really like that. One person, she chose to get a degree. She gets paid less and her boyfriend chose to become an engineer. He's a piece of, by the way, but either way, regardless of that part. Chose to become an engineer, makes a lot more money. And she's like, well, I went to school for more. He's got a certification and he makes more. And I'm like, okay, but you chose to do this. You could look into the data. That was really weird. Definitely some jealousy. Then we've also had some like stay at home. Uh, mostly women, but I think we've had a couple of stay at home guys as well. And they're, they like to be the spenders while the other one's the earner. Big fans of that.

• 1:42:49Jack Selby?

  And what about combining finances? Would you recommend that for most relationships and will you do that?

• 1:42:54Speaker 03

  For most? I don't know. I mean, I'll, yeah, I'll do it. I'll, I'll do it if she, if she wants to, I guess. Um, I mean, it's personal finances. It works for some, it works for others. It sounds like it doesn't work for you guys from what you just said. Cause if she's paying for it, I mean, she has her own money. You guys are married. So, and that's fine. I, I think it just really depends on the relationship. As long as I think we're aligned on goals, we know what we're trying to get, we're being responsible. That's okay. I think a good, healthy middle ground is maybe a couple of separate accounts, but everything goes into one joint where things aren't really spent. But then it's divided from there. Bills and then personal spending.

• 1:43:29Jack Selby?

  What about prenuptials? Do you?

• 1:43:32Speaker 03

  They get income divide. Yeah.

• 1:43:33Jack Selby?

  Do you plan on getting a prenup?

• 1:43:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, she knows that.

• 1:43:36Jack Selby?

  Yeah. And how early do you have that discussion?

• 1:43:39Speaker 03

  I told her pretty damn quick. I mean, I mean, it's just big income divide. It's just gonna happen. It's just gonna happen. Things just get messier. Things get weird. It's, it's just cleaner that way.

• 1:43:50Jack Selby?

  So when it comes to that, what's a financial mistake that you make?

• 1:43:54Speaker 03

  Um, my rental properties, I mean, it's not that I.

• 1:43:57Jack Selby?

  Do you still have them?

• 1:43:57Speaker 03

  I'm exiting them. My, I made money. I make decent money. I would have made so much more money being in the market. Instead of focusing on that, I really.

• 1:44:06Graham Stephan?

  Sell those things as soon as possible.

• 1:44:08Speaker 03

  I am.

• 1:44:09Graham Stephan?

  The last time that I think we talked, I was telling you to sell those rentals, right?

• 1:44:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't remember.

• 1:44:14Graham Stephan?

  There was a condo, there's something worth like 500 grand. I said, sell it.

• 1:44:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:44:18Graham Stephan?

  Cause you said you were gonna be either break even or barely cash flow negative on it. And you didn't want to give up the mortgage, I believe.

• 1:44:25Speaker 03

  Hmm. Yeah, that was on the condo specifically. I did exit that.

• 1:44:28Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:44:28Speaker 03

  Pretty quickly. Um, but my rental properties back in my home state, yeah, I'm fully exiting them and I'm just putting the money in the market. So that was a financial mistake. Um.

• 1:44:39Speaker 03

  I mean, I definitely move a lot, you know? Buy, sell, buy, sell, but.

• 1:44:44Graham Stephan?

  Are you losing money on your house?

• 1:44:46Speaker 03

  The current house that I'm in right now, while my new house is under renovation, I will probably break even.

• 1:44:52Graham Stephan?

  So you bought a house while your house is being.

• 1:44:54Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no, no. The house that I live in now is the house you guys have been to that I've had for a few.

• 1:44:59Graham Stephan?

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:44:59Speaker 03

  But I've had a house for a little bit in like my dream neighborhood, essentially. And but it's been a renovation kind of mess. So it's been taking a while.

• 1:45:09Graham Stephan?

  But on your other house that we've been to.

• 1:45:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:11Graham Stephan?

  Are you losing money on that? When you sell it, will you?

• 1:45:14Speaker 03

  When I sell it, it will be break even. At best, maybe a little loss, but not much.

• 1:45:20Graham Stephan?

  And if someone were to look through your personal finances as an audit, what would they criticize?

• 1:45:25Speaker 03

  Oh, this is interesting because we talk about low cost index funds. I mean, I use the money guys as their financial services. Um, they're my wealth managers. I decided to go with them in the end.

• 1:45:36Graham Stephan?

  Why do you need a wealth manager? I feel like you are smart enough and in it with finances that you could just buy an index fund. One fund and be done with it.

• 1:45:45Speaker 03

  Which I could, and I'm down for luckily, it's like, they are very, their fees are very, very tiny. So I'm really not losing much. Um, taking advantage of some tax loss harvesting is nice. It's good to have someone in your corner when you get to that next level. And for me, it kind of, it came down to our conversation. It's not as extreme as whether or not starting in that burger restaurant or take him out, starting that franchise. But I want to put all my energy into this business. I want to put all my energy into growing DollarWise. I don't want to think about my investments. I don't need to think about diversification and international to what is Bitcoin doing? What's happening here? What's happening there? I don't want to think about that. They're the experts. I'm letting them work on letting Brian and Beau and my boy.

• 1:46:29Graham Stephan?

  What are they investing in?

• 1:46:30Speaker 03

  I mean, it's mostly just replicating the market if we're being honest.

• 1:46:33Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:46:33Speaker 03

  That's pretty much it. Right now, though, right now, we have an ultimate goal. We're trying to get to within a couple of years, but.

• 1:46:40Graham Stephan?

  So with all the success that you've had, do you still finance your furniture?

• 1:46:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:46:45Graham Stephan?

  You paid it off.

• 1:46:45Speaker 03

  Well, I'm gonna get new furniture in the new house. I might finance that.

• 1:46:48Graham Stephan?

  And what is the logic?

• 1:46:51Speaker 03

  What is the logic? No, I'm not gonna finance it. At this point, I'm not, I doubt I'm gonna finance it, but.

• 1:46:57Graham Stephan?

  Has, has your relationship with money changed?

• 1:47:01Speaker 03

  Um, my fear has gone down substantially because I hit that minimum goal that we talked about. I think our first time. Once I hit that, you know, a lot of the conversation is, does the goal just change? Well, the goal changed, but my safety net goal did not. Once I hit that, I was like, oh, I'm good.

• 1:47:15Graham Stephan?

  Can you say what that goal was?

• 1:47:16Speaker 03

  Um, what was it? Five million? I think.

• 1:47:20Graham Stephan?

  And why did you pick five million?

• 1:47:22Speaker 03

  You know, I was actually talking to the money guys. I was talking to the money guys. Yeah. That's just what they said is like my safe line when they did the audit on me. And I was like, I just kind of went with it. I just went with them.

• 1:47:31Graham Stephan?

  I'll, I'll tell you what you have to do next because at your goal level, your risk does not decrease. And what you have to protect against at this point are lawsuits.

• 1:47:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:44Graham Stephan?

  Health and any sort of personal accident that could derail that. And so now you have to protect against that.

• 1:47:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, lawsuits are really the only thing we're doing pretty well with great contracts, tying up the best lawyers and um, insurance is up, up the butt. Uh, so that's good. Health? I am skinnier since the last time you guys met me, but it's not as significant as it should be for what it's worth.

• 1:48:11Graham Stephan?

  So how did you arrive to the five million number?

• 1:48:13Speaker 03

  Uh, the money guys suggested, once you get five, you're chilling and they laid out a full plan. It's like, yeah.

• 1:48:18Graham Stephan?

  What was the justification?

• 1:48:19Speaker 03

  What was the justification? It's like, shit, I don't remember. It was a couple of years ago. I just always move on to the next thing more than.

• 1:48:29Speaker 03

  Parker's trying to get an answer, is it? Um.

• 1:48:34Speaker 03

  I don't know. Once they, once they set a goal for me. These people that are my friends, that I respect. I'm a very goal oriented person. Since I put that on my radar, that was just it. That was it. It might not be as perfectly logical as we want it to be. And how is the relief that you've experienced expressed itself? Good. I'm willing to take more risk, willing to hire more people, willing to do more things. Willing to like, if this is as far as I get, that's fine. Now I'm gonna throw it on the table. And so you've just increased your expenses to make life more comfortable? Yeah, this studio, well, less about that, but this studio, it's expensive. We spent a lot of money on this studio. We pay really good wages. Our overhead is crazy. It's probably higher than 300 a month.

• 1:49:19Speaker 03

  It must be.

• 1:49:22Speaker 03

  Really just doubling down, doubling down on the business. And it's just been an easier decision since you feel like you have this guaranteed safety. Cause I could have just siphoned all the money, you know, I could have just siphoned. But I decided to double down. You feel like you've made more because you've invested so much more into the business? Luckily, yes. Now that Dollar Wise is very successful because it has like made waves through the budgeting market.

• 1:49:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, it paid. Paid great. What happened to the Dollar Wise app? Yeah, when it first launched, that was so.

• 1:49:52Speaker 03

  Woo. So one thing I learned for all you people growing a business right there. Third party contractors when building something from scratch, not always the best thing to do. It is cheaper, it is easier, it is less scary. They probably know what they're doing. But build in-house, do the investment. If you're actually confident in what you're doing, build it in-house. Cause that's what we've had to do this, these last like seven, eight months is rebuild everything from house. So the launch of the contractor is a complete disaster. They wouldn't fix things on time. It was like they launched a simpler budget. We got a copyright issue. It was, it was almost a lawsuit. Had to switch it to a simpler budget or Dollar Wise before we made any app fixes. Luckily, my team came in, we hired them, spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, put all my money back towards them. They fixed the app to where the past, in the past, like three months, four months, they absolutely good.

• 1:50:37Speaker 03

  It's all the, you know, the issues are fixed, but now, but it hasn't been that app that's like uberly competitive against all the other budgeting apps. So with what they've been working on the last six, seven months, especially with all the new technology that exists today is building this big 6.0 launch that is happening right after we filmed this and. It's gonna be incredible. I'm so excited to see how it competes against the monarch again. Well, yeah, monarch's like the big one right now, but against all the other top dogs right now with the great level of insights people are getting into their money that's automated. More than any other budgeting app actually giving you those tools and insights in your insights tab. I'm just so excited to see what happens.

• 1:51:16Jack Selby?

  Do you worry that potentially the app is at risk if like a chat GPT or a Gemini came out with a like a financial AI that could basically integrate already and then give you like real time insights and suggestions immediately for free?

• 1:51:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, potentially. I mean, I know even Grok itself and what is it perplexity? I think they have like a finance mode. So there are things like that and that's a conversation, but I think people like having an app they trust with their data because I don't know if people trust their data with AI. So a company that doesn't sell that actually protects that. And that's what we've promised to do. And that actually connects with these great third parties.

• 1:51:59Speaker 03

  Like plan and whatnot to sync their accounts automatically instead of having you're like, okay, what's the update? Jap, okay, what's going on now? What's going on now? Here's a question, you know? So we already give you the insights. Everything's automatic. It's all done for you and it's built in a way for a human to use, not like what a chat bot thinks you want to hear in the moment. But someday, honestly, probably, and we have a pivot in mind in about a year.

• 1:52:21Jack Selby?

  What's the end goal for Dollar Wise?

• 1:52:24Speaker 03

  Oh, I mean, I want to build it into not only the best budgeting app, potentially go into the world of some banking, potentially go into, um, I want to scale it into a multi hundred million dollar business. I want to employ a lot of people and I want to create an app that actually changes people's lives more than the show does.

• 1:52:42Jack Selby?

  What's the primary motivator at this point? Because you have more than enough money right now, I would assume. If you wanted to step away from YouTube, would you be fine to do so?

• 1:52:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh, for sure.

• 1:52:51Jack Selby?

  So you could live a perfectly quality life with all the money that you have saved up and invested.

• 1:52:55Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:52:55Jack Selby?

  So if it's not then to get to like a different level of wealth to access different things in life, then what is the motivator?

• 1:53:03Speaker 03

  You know, it's interesting. I just saw a clip from your episode that was just released with a streamer I've never heard of, no offense to him. But you asked him if he would step away with $20 million or something. He said, no, he'd be bored. I'd be bored. I love building shit. I love working with people. I love having an impact positively on the world. Some people don't agree with it and that's okay. We don't care about their opinion. They're, you know, whatever. That's their choice. But I want to leave an actual resource and legacy that helps people. I really do.

• 1:53:31Jack Selby?

  But would you walk away for a hundred million dollars post-tax?

• 1:53:35Speaker 03

  No, billion, maybe.

• 1:53:37Jack Selby?

  A billion dollars, maybe?

• 1:53:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure, why not?

• 1:53:39Jack Selby?

  So where does most of your revenue come from today? How is it broken down? As Jack would say, the pie chart.

• 1:53:45Speaker 03

  Dollar Wise has played a big catch up. For the vast majority of last year, it was financial audit driven by AdSense and sponsorships. Memberships really took off last year. That's been huge. That pulls some pretty heavy weight, but now Dollar Wise is so substantial. I'd say it's about still 40% YouTube.

• 1:54:04Speaker 04

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• 1:54:33Speaker 06

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• 1:55:04Speaker 03

  20% sponsors and then the rest comes from the mixture of our educational programs and Dollar Wise.

• 1:55:10Jack Selby?

  One thing that we had discussed on this podcast, every time we've had you on so far, you have said that you are still deathly afraid of dying poor on the Walmart floor.

• 1:55:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, not anymore because I hit that goal. I mean, that was a big part of it. That was a huge part of it.

• 1:55:24Jack Selby?

  So it was as simple as setting a goal, achieving the goal, and then that's it?

• 1:55:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, because $5 million, I mean, it's more money than most people can imagine, but it doesn't give you like a huge crazy life for the rest of your life. Not, not by any means, but I can feel comfortable that I can get my together. For long enough, for a long time, I can get my shit together. Cause I can always work. I can always figure out things to do. I've always accepted that I might have to go get another normal, regular job post YouTube. Once I got into this thing.

• 1:55:51Jack Selby?

  So transparently, I've had this goal for a very long time and it's the exact same as what you said. It's like five million dollars and I feel right now like I need to race as fast as I can to hit that. And then once I hit that, it's so funny. You mentioned this because it is so directly applicable to my life. Once I hit that, then at that moment, I can then start spending to make my life a little bit more comfortable. And similar to what you did, I would love to hire on more editors and hire on more producers. So we can actually, obviously our profit would go down. Um, but then it would, we would take exactly the maybe is the, it's the unknown. Hopefully, you know, our profit would go up, but the risk of doing that, I don't know if it's worth it. When right now, like we can still remain profitable and I can still continue to like save as much as I can.

• 1:56:32Jack Selby?

  Until I hit that network. So it's interesting to see that you actually, as soon as you hit it, the mentality did change. If you could go back in time, would you have started to elevate your lifestyle and spend more back into the business? Before you hit that five million, or do you think it was necessary to have that confidence? Once you hit it.

• 1:56:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I definitely don't regret anything, but since I know it all worked out, I would have put more into the business, not lifestyle. I still don't live a crazy life.

• 1:56:55Jack Selby?

  To get the confidence, like the through and through confidence, once you hit that number?

• 1:56:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was nice. It just allowed me to step the foot on the gas on everything else. You know, instead of being so afraid of everything. So why aren't you at five?

• 1:57:07Jack Selby?

  And that's hard.

• 1:57:09Speaker 03

  It is hard.

• 1:57:09Jack Selby?

  People don't realize like you can.

• 1:57:11Speaker 03

  It's difficult, but. Is it because Graham didn't pay you anything when you started?

• 1:57:14Jack Selby?

  That was it. No, no, because I mean.

• 1:57:16Graham Stephan?

  That was it because I made.

• 1:57:17Speaker 03

  I'm trying to, I'm trying to start some.

• 1:57:18Graham Stephan?

  No, because I made Jack work for free.

• 1:57:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:20Graham Stephan?

  For such a long time, that the early years of compounding have just caught up to him.

• 1:57:24Jack Selby?

  I would have had one extra year. I only, I think I, I didn't work for free. I mean, I, for a little bit, like months, but it wasn't anything. It was like, yeah. But I'm, I mean, I'm not at five because people don't real.

• 1:57:34Speaker 03

  Dude, it's hard.

• 1:57:37Jack Selby?

  Saving up money post-tax is incredibly difficult. So like you can be earning a lot of money and you could be earning a lot of money for a pretty long time. Like, I feel like I've, I've been earning good money, not like a lot, but like good money for five years now, probably. But saving up post-tax is like so, like so hard. Like even to, to save up the first like million, like it takes years and years of like high earning.

• 1:58:01Graham Stephan?

  And just expenses. You have expenses and then what you don't spend then is now taxed. Or you spend money after taxes. It's just.

• 1:58:10Jack Selby?

  And when you're as bullish on Robinhood stock as I am.

• 1:58:14Graham Stephan?

  Oh, gosh.

• 1:58:14Jack Selby?

  Then obviously it's going to hinder your economical growth.

• 1:58:18Speaker 03

  Honestly, I'd say about a third of my net worth has been through just pumping in during big dips the past couple of years. Just had great rebounds.

• 1:58:27Jack Selby?

  That's incredible.

• 1:58:28Speaker 03

  Like the beginning of last year when tariff first started. Woo, I love that little dip. I made incredible money on that.

• 1:58:35Jack Selby?

  Do you purposely set money aside for events like that?

• 1:58:38Speaker 03

  No, I got really, I got really lucky.

• 1:58:41Jack Selby?

  So it was perfect timing.

• 1:58:42Speaker 03

  It was perfect timing. Now with the wealth advisors with, thank you, Money Guy.

• 1:58:49Speaker 03

  We are setting aside like a large pile of money for a few different things, but in case a big opportunity comes, whether that's, you know, commercial real estate or

• 1:58:58Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:59Speaker 03

  buying a big dip.

• 1:58:59Graham Stephan?

  Do you feel like you still need more money?

• 1:59:02Speaker 03

  No, not at all. Not at all. It doesn't come.

• 1:59:08Speaker 03

  It doesn't come from anything that I want additional in lifestyle. I'm getting my dream house in my dream neighborhood.

• 1:59:13Graham Stephan?

  How much is that going to be?

• 1:59:15Speaker 03

  A house 1.6 renovation, five.

• 1:59:19Graham Stephan?

  Five million dollars on a 1.6 house?

• 1:59:21Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, 500,000.

• 1:59:22Graham Stephan?

  What?

• 1:59:23Speaker 03

  500,000.

• 1:59:23Graham Stephan?

  Well, when I hear five, I think five million.

• 1:59:26Speaker 03

  But that would be insane. That would be insane, though.

• 1:59:28Graham Stephan?

  He's just.

• 1:59:29Speaker 03

  And I got my Model X. I'm very happy. So.

• 1:59:33Graham Stephan?

  Part of that might be you haven't moved into the house yet.

• 1:59:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe.

• 1:59:37Graham Stephan?

  And then you move into the house.

• 1:59:39Speaker 03

  It's not the house, though. It's the community. It's walkable. Like, that's what I crave. I crave a place with parks and shops that's safe and actually laws are enforced. And that's, you know, where I'm excited to be. So it's more that than the house.

• 1:59:53Graham Stephan?

  Do you feel financially secure? Do you feel like you need more money? I feel financially secure, but I feel like I need more money. It's so funny. I had these long discussions with Gemini and ChatGPT and Grok. They know everything about me. They know every single one of my investments. Seriously, they, and I update it on a regular basis. So they know exactly where I stand. And I've gone through every single tax strategy to be able to buy a house that I want, that I think would be a dream house.

• 2:00:23Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 2:00:25Graham Stephan?

  What do you mean, what's that?

• 2:00:25Speaker 03

  Can you say like what that would be?

• 2:00:27Graham Stephan?

  Oh, price range wise or what?

• 2:00:29Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:00:30Graham Stephan?

  Oh, no, I mean, I want a house in Las Vegas with a view of the Strip.

• 2:00:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:35Graham Stephan?

  That's completely private where all you see from the front, my vision is just all you see is a gate.

• 2:00:39Speaker 03

  So you're going more.

• 2:00:40Graham Stephan?

  You don't want to see the house. And then with a yard, yeah, yeah, with a, with a big yard, with a view of the Strip. And those tend to be about seven to 10. And me doing.

• 2:00:52Speaker 03

  Chunky.

• 2:00:52Graham Stephan?

  It is. And so then it is, well, seven to 10, you know, let's just say, because realistically I use some of the house for business. But the mortgage cap is 750, which leaves a lot of money that's not deductible. And then I'm like, well, I could do a box spread and I could borrow against my portfolio, create capital losses and then buy the house with it. And I do all the calculations, but I've determined that right now to comfortably afford that, I need another three to five years of income. Cause I never want to buy something and then be reliant on income to afford it. I, I assume if I buy something, I want to be okay where if my income goes to zero the next day and I just have my investments to live off of, that'll fund everything I need with a 30% buffer.

• 2:01:36Graham Stephan?

  In the event the market goes down or something unexpected comes up.

• 2:01:39Speaker 03

  Why do you want that? I understand the view part, but why do you want to be further away from society? Why do you want?

• 2:01:44Graham Stephan?

  No, no, it's not further away.

• 2:01:45Speaker 03

  Why do you want more space? Like, what are you doing with it?

• 2:01:47Graham Stephan?

  Oh, I love when you go out and it just feels peaceful, where you just feel like you're in the middle of nature. I don't like going outside and I see like house, house, house, house, house, house, house, house, house. I love you. You open it into a space that just feels like you're in a bit of a forest.

• 2:02:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:03Graham Stephan?

  It feels tropical and I want like, you know, koi ponds and like trickling water through the place. It, it, I don't want a mansion, but I just want that land and space and privacy with the view. That just feels like you're in your own little sliver of like heaven.

• 2:02:18Speaker 03

  That's fair. You know, actually, when you ask like if I need more money, no. But now that you did say that, I do have in the back of my head, a, a really cool thing someday. It'd be like a really cool hill country Texas ranch. I love a Texas ranch, just for, just, I love animals. I do like land. It'd be cool. But so I guess that would be it. That'd be it.

• 2:02:40Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:40Jack Selby?

  But neither of you still fear going broke?

• 2:02:44Speaker 03

  I don't fear that.

• 2:02:46Graham Stephan?

  Oh, I would say for me, there's a certain small percentage that you just don't, you don't know what you don't know. That's always what it is for me.

• 2:02:53Speaker 03

  My philosophy is like,

• 2:02:57Speaker 03

  uh, if the US economy goes to zero and we're all each other, I'm ready to put a, my mouth, I don't know.

• 2:03:04Graham Stephan?

  If the US economy goes to zero?

• 2:03:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. If we're in like the, you know, world war Z, end of the world.

• 2:03:11Graham Stephan?

  You wouldn't fight?

• 2:03:12Speaker 03

  No. No, no, no, no. I'm too, my, my, my anxiety, my panic attacks, I would just end it. No.

• 2:03:18Graham Stephan?

  I feel like people would say, yo, isn't that the guy from the financial audit show? And they're like, oh my gosh, yeah, it is. And like, yo, come with us. Like, we'll save you.

• 2:03:26Speaker 03

  I, I don't, I don't want the, the, no, no, no. I think me and my girlfriend, we've decided we'd, uh, you know, bunker it. So.

• 2:03:34Graham Stephan?

  It's expensive.

• 2:03:36Speaker 03

  Well, part.

• 2:03:37Jack Selby?

  Oh, okay. Where did you meet your girlfriend?

• 2:03:40Speaker 03

  Instagram, DMs.

• 2:03:41Jack Selby?

  You slid into her DM?

• 2:03:44Speaker 03

  Other way.

• 2:03:44Jack Selby?

  She slid into your DM?

• 2:03:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I never slide in. Wait, do I? I probably have before, yeah. I love it for his DM.

• 2:03:51Jack Selby?

  What did she say?

• 2:03:52Speaker 03

  It was something funny. I don't remember exactly. It was, it was, it was something cheeky, though. That's, that's usually how you get me to respond.

• 2:03:58Jack Selby?

  And then what? You clicked on her profile? You're like, okay, I like the way she looks?

• 2:04:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. And then we just started talking and.

• 2:04:04Jack Selby?

  And how long until you knew that you wanted to take some things seriously with her?

• 2:04:09Speaker 03

  About a month. About a month.

• 2:04:11Jack Selby?

  How many dates?

• 2:04:11Speaker 03

  Enough.

• 2:04:14Speaker 03

  A week of very intense dates. I was like, okay, you know what? I'm interested in this.

• 2:04:19Jack Selby?

  And then do you guys live together now?

• 2:04:20Speaker 03

  We do now, yeah.

• 2:04:21Jack Selby?

  Okay, how long until you guys started living together?

• 2:04:23Speaker 03

  We went a little quicker than normal, uh, four months. Definitely quicker than I would advise and stuff, but just some things like least situations and why not kind of lined up and we're like, nah, if we're gonna try it, let's try it.

• 2:04:35Jack Selby?

  What is it?

• 2:04:36Speaker 03

  It doesn't work, it doesn't work.

• 2:04:36Jack Selby?

  What are the main ways that having a relationship has improved your life? Like, if you were to list out all the stats of life, business, work, confidence, anxiety, what ways have improved the most?

• 2:04:48Speaker 03

  Well, definitely getting good, that's, I have a good support system. And she also calls me on my shit, let me tell you, who she calls me on my shit. So I'm not getting babied. Like, whatever, if I have an opinion or I'm even like upset at someone at work, she'll call me on my shit. And she'll like.

• 2:05:03Jack Selby?

  What'll she say?

• 2:05:03Speaker 03

  Play devil's advocate. I was angry about how an employee was acting at one point. I don't want to get details.

• 2:05:09Jack Selby?

  Yeah, that's fine.

• 2:05:10Speaker 03

  Listening. And she was like, no, Caleb, you're being a dick. You're being that. I was like, all right, go ahead. I listen. You know, decent, good debates. We also have very similar interests in terms of like, uh, I mean, we have interests aligned enough to have a really good time with each other. And that's really nice. Good support system. And I mean, I, I don't want this to be my life, but studies suggest for men, their closest dynamic in the vast majority of their life outside of childhood is their wife. It's not always the fact, the same for women to their husbands, but for men to their wives, that is like their closest and most, the person they put everything towards.

• 2:05:51Speaker 03

  And I'm glad I found, um, you know, I don't know if she'll be a wife or not, but you know, we're thinking about that and I'm glad I think I found the one for that, so.

• 2:06:01Jack Selby?

  When do you think you're gonna come to a decision on that?

• 2:06:05Speaker 03

  I think I already kind of have.

• 2:06:06Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 2:06:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:07Graham Stephan?

  What's the most expensive gift you've gotten her?

• 2:06:10Speaker 03

  Chanel bag.

• 2:06:11Graham Stephan?

  How much was it?

• 2:06:12Speaker 03

  10.

• 2:06:12Graham Stephan?

  $10,000?

• 2:06:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, never have, never done anything like that in my life, but I was like, you know what? I make good money. I love this woman. It's been her dream since literally childhood.

• 2:06:22Graham Stephan?

  A Chanel bag?

• 2:06:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:24Graham Stephan?

  That was your dream?

• 2:06:25Speaker 03

  Uh, well, yeah, she's very into fashion. Collectibles, collector vintage type shit. So it was like classic flap, you know, historic bag.

• 2:06:33Graham Stephan?

  What was her reaction to a $10,000 bag?

• 2:06:35Speaker 03

  She cried. She cried like crazy.

• 2:06:38Graham Stephan?

  Now, why not, why not buy her the replica version of that? And just say it's the, what, Jack?

• 2:06:44Speaker 03

  To be fair, that's the nicest thing she's gonna get for a very, very, very long time. But it was like her one thing. I was like, I had a really good year. I love this woman. I've never bought someone something so expensive before. It was what, when I asked her sister, it was like, this is what she's always talked about. I was like, okay. Fuck it, let's swallow that. That's, ooh, that's a hard one.

• 2:07:05Graham Stephan?

  But with all that said, with how incredible of a year that you had where it was wildly profitable and the amazing smile that you put on this woman's face that you love. And she was so happy. She cried. It's been her dream. Why would you still not buy a replica?

• 2:07:21Speaker 03

  See, Graham, you see what I'm saying? Do you see how ludicrous it is?

• 2:07:26Graham Stephan?

  It's the same thing.

• 2:07:27Speaker 03

  You had the most profitable year you've ever had. You could never even dream of making so much money.

• 2:07:31Graham Stephan?

  But you could save $9,500.

• 2:07:35Speaker 03

  But it holds value.

• 2:07:37Graham Stephan?

  What was the, what was the process like of buying a $10,000 Chanel bag?

• 2:07:41Speaker 03

  I went in, I was very lucky that they actually had one. I was very lucky they actually had one.

• 2:07:46Graham Stephan?

  How do you know? And how do you scan that someone isn't interested in you for either the money or for the social media popularity?

• 2:07:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's hard. That's where.

• 2:08:00Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, you see, you see the flaws since I'm pretty quick and if they can't put up with my flaws of which on there are many, you know, that would be hard to stick around just for like, I'm not that kind of rich, you know, it's we're not on that level. This is still just like YouTube at the end of the day. And um, prenup out of the gate, you say, yeah, I'm getting a prenup, I'm getting a prenup, it's gonna happen. That's a good way to weed them out. Why don't you lose weight? I do and have, I think I'm 20 pounds down from the last time you guys saw me. Uh, but you're right. I mean, it's not as much. Is it a priority for you? Um, uh, it it continues in cycles of priority. Um, I'll be honest, the last two weeks have been bad. I've been really good.

• 2:08:42Speaker 03

  Last few months, the last two weeks have been bad after a big freeze where we were all stuck inside and I used that as a slide. That was bad. I just need to get right back on it. Um, girlfriend's great for that. Huge fitness person, huge dieting person. She's very smart, great cooking, like, and the gym is her life. So she's actually been really good on that. She holds me accountable and she calls me out my. What's your weakness in food? Fries, burgers and shakes. That shit's good. And where? Damn, America. Ah, oh, um, Shake Shack's incredible. Five Guys is incredible. Pete Harris is incredible. McDonald's is incredible. Chick-fil-A is incredible. What's the most underrated fast food restaurant?

• 2:09:22Speaker 03

  Underrated? I don't know why the people think uh, Shake Shack and In-N-Out are even comparable. It's not even close. Shake Shack kills In-N-Out. It's not even close. I'd say that's underrated just because they compare them. It's not even fair that they compared. Culvers. Culvers is, Culvers is great. Yeah. Overrated, Whataburger. Do you have any desire though to like really take it seriously with diet and the gym and like make a huge lifestyle change? Gym? Just get jacked. Gym, I I would love to, would I or else I would just do it, right? I'm kind of like a financial out of gas.

• 2:09:58Speaker 03

  Jim would be nice, but diet, yes. And I have been actually, for what it's worth. And people, actually, we did an end of year video of like, we put all the clips from the year and stuff. And people were commenting about the weight loss, which was, it was, it was good to see.

• 2:10:10Graham Stephan?

  Do you think that you getting, let's just say jacked, looks maxing? Do you think that would have an adverse effect on the channel?

• 2:10:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:18Graham Stephan?

  Cause maybe sometimes you and your current form is gonna be more like, maybe better for views. Like, let's say.

• 2:10:28Speaker 03

  What are you saying?

• 2:10:30Graham Stephan?

  Like Jonah Hill, like Jonah Hill lost weight and he became less funny.

• 2:10:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:34Graham Stephan?

  Right? Right?

• 2:10:37Speaker 03

  I could say this shit, dude. I don't know. Um, I love fat jokes and I probably can't do as many fat jokes when I'm like, cavicular.

• 2:10:49Graham Stephan?

  But maybe you could, like, having lost the weight, though.

• 2:10:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, but at that point, it probably just looks mean. People already think it's mean, but I don't care. So, yeah.

• 2:11:00Jack Selby?

  I think, Caleb, at the end of the day, everything that you've done is incredibly impressive.

• 2:11:06Graham Stephan?

  Oh, yeah, it is. We talk about it all the time.

• 2:11:06Jack Selby?

  Especially, you go back several years. I mean, where you were at, you were in a decent spot back then, too. But like, you just seemed like another one of those ambitious people that was like, I'm gonna put my head down and work and see what happens. And it was like, okay, you were doing well and you continued moving in the right direction, but you have stuck with it. You've remained incredibly consistent, super hardworking, super disciplined, and you have absolutely exploded. And every single time that we think, eh, this is probably about it. How much longer can he do these? Like, is this really gonna be, you know, a profitable thing for a really long time? Or is he just hitting another ceiling? And then every single time, you just break through the ceiling and break through the ceiling. So you've done an incredible job. Also, I will say, of all of the things, it's like, you're a great personality on, on camera. But of all of the things, you're incredibly efficient at organizing people.

• 2:11:50Jack Selby?

  And I think that that's what's led to the crazy rise of the business, is that you're able to put the right person in the right job. And then know when someone's not either the right person or not in the right spot, and then be able to put them in the right spot. So I think you've done an incredible job. Your output is insane. It's super respectable.

• 2:12:06Graham Stephan?

  Your efficiency is a 10 out of 10, and we look at your operation as our inspiration. And we see what you're doing and we talk to you, and you are a huge influence now in the Ice Coffee Hour of figuring out what we could do to improve and not get stale.

• 2:12:23Speaker 03

  Thank you guys, I appreciate you. It's good to have good support system. You guys are always good to talk to. I have the most incredible employees. It's all because of them. The audience is stuck with me through drama, through fun, through goons, through gaffes. So the audience is absolutely incredible. And then most important, the guests on Financial Auto. None of it would be possible without them. So I'm thankful for them.

• 2:12:43Jack Selby?

  And of course, we're very grateful for you to come back on the Ice Cops. Every single time we talk to you, it is an absolute pleasure. And for everybody watching, guys, thank you. Thank you so much for tuning in. And of course, we would not be here if not for you. So every single day, I try to practice a little bit of gratitude for the position that we're in. And it's, we would not be here if not for you guys. So thank you sincerely from the bottom of our heart for watching this episode.

• 2:13:04Graham Stephan?

  Thank you. And we'll also link to your budgeting app in the description. So it is there for anyone who wants to try it out. There you go.

• 2:13:12Jack Selby?

  We flew out to Austin for this. We're staying another day to film a bunch more episodes and then we're flying to Puerto Rico. Okay. And then we're gonna fly back home and then leave back for like, our travel schedule is crazy, but we're doing it for you guys. So thank you, guys. Thank you, Caleb. Till next time.

• 2:13:35Speaker 06

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