The Oscars Snubs Draft. Plus: ‘Sirāt’!

We’re drafting again! Sean and Amanda are joined by Chris Ryan, Joanna Robisnon, and The Ankler’s Katey Rich to right the Academy’s wrongs by drafting the biggest Oscars snubs of all time. Before diving in though, they briefly cover this year’s Best Picture race (2:00). Then, they introduce the new categories and rules for this format and draft (12:33). Next, Sean and Amanda briefly cover Óliver Laxe’s ‘Sirāt’ and talk through its deeply affective emotional provocation (2:06:21). Finally, Sean is joined by Laxe to explain why he feels like the audience dies while watching his film, how he experienced rave culture before portraying it on screen, and why creating transformative images that evoke feeling is the most crucial aspect of cinema (2:16:16). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Óliver Laxe, Chris Ryan, Joanna Robinson, and Katey Rich Producer: Jack Sanders Production Support: Lucas Cavanagh A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.® Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:46Sean Fennessey?

  I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture and Conversation show about Oscar Snub. CR is here, so of course, we're drafting. We also have two very special guests. One is the one and only Joanna Robinson from House of R, The Ringer-verse, Prestige TV Podcast, Talk the Thrones.

• 2:03Sean Fennessey?

  Various and sundry podcasts outside of that. Welcome back.

• 2:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Thanks for having me.

• 2:09Sean Fennessey?

  Also here for the second time, Katie Rich.

• 2:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Hell, yeah.

• 2:11Sean Fennessey?

  From the Ankler, the Prestige Junkie Podcast. And a long time. Okay, so I had to ask you this question.

• 2:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:17Sean Fennessey?

  Do you consider yourself an Oscar pundit?

• 2:19Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't love that word.

• 2:21Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 2:22Amanda Dobbins?

  But I will say at the nominees luncheon, which I attended yesterday, the Academy president, like, shouted out people who make predictions as being part of the queue. As like, being part of the system. So I was like, oh, maybe I should embrace being a pundit if the Academy president thinks I matter. But I don't like, I don't think my predictions are always very good.

• 2:35Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so you are a pundit.

• 2:36Amanda Dobbins?

  I guess. So I don't know.

• 2:38Sean Fennessey?

  Affirmed. See, R, you are a man.

• 2:39Speaker 05

  No, this is like art brute. This is like, I just like, I didn't even know what are awards?

• 2:46Sean Fennessey?

  We are gonna be drafting today, Oscar snubs. It's a very complicated series of categories. We will talk through all of them later in this episode. I have a conversation with Oliver Lash. He is the writer-director of Serat, which is a fascinating movie that Amanda and I will also talk about later in this episode. Please stick around for our conversation. We'll be right back, right after this.

• 3:04Amanda Dobbins?

  This episode of The Big Picture is presented by State Farm.

• 3:07Sean Fennessey?

  You know those friends who show up for whatever you're into? The ones who'll debate which superhero universe is better or binge true crime documentaries with you at 3:00 in the morning? Those friends are gold.

• 3:15Amanda Dobbins?

  State Farm is like that, helping you figure out the coverage that actually fits. Car, home, life, whatever you need, they've got your back. And if you want a hand, a local agent is just a tap away on their award-winning app.

• 3:26Sean Fennessey?

  Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 3:30Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, before we get into snubs and snubbings and snubbies.

• 3:35Amanda Dobbins?

  And flubs.

• 3:35Sean Fennessey?

  And flubs.

• 3:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 3:36Sean Fennessey?

  There is an Oscar race going on right now. We've been talking about it on this podcast. We'd be remiss if we didn't talk about this year's race a little bit with Joe and Katie here, two of the goats in the, in the, in the race game.

• 3:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Joe or Joanna? We just talked about this.

• 3:48Sean Fennessey?

  I say Joe.

• 3:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 3:50Sean Fennessey?

  And it will be Joe till I die.

• 3:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm gonna say Joanna, but just, I don't wanna make it weird. It's the same person.

• 3:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Well, it's like you're with your ex-boyfriend and your, your current boyfriend.

• 3:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh.

• 4:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Together forever. I know.

• 4:03Sean Fennessey?

  Katie, what do you make of the race? What's going on? How are you feeling?

• 4:06Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, after, so I've been doing a bunch of awards season events. As I said, I was at the nominees luncheon and I had someone yesterday being like, have you changed your predictions based on that? And I was like, I don't know how to do that. That's a room full of like 800 people, maybe, and the Academy is 10,000. But I do think the Sinners versus One Battle After Another thing kind of keeps going. It keeps staying unsettled. You see something like at the luncheon yesterday, Ryan Coogler and Zinzie Coogler definitely got the biggest applause in the entire room. Like, there is that Sinners enthusiasm. But also, it's two great movies and I can't feel too bad about it working out that way. So it's not, I think I know who I want to win, but I kind of just, I want the drama to stay as long as I can. We want, we want action in this. Katie, how many interviews did you do yesterday at the nominees luncheon? Individual people or total interviews? Total interviews. I like, I think it's like 38. And 45 people.

• 4:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I think that's the number.

• 4:53Sean Fennessey?

  It was so many.

• 4:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Great question. I mean, we're gonna, I do go to the anchor, you'll see the videos, we've got supercuts, we ask people about their favorite Oscar winning movies, got some fascinating answers. And, you know, they say, hey, here's the director of this short that you've watched. It's pretty good. I'm like, hey, I'll give you some attention. I want to help you feel a part of this whole thing. So it's a part of the celebration of it, but then you get to the end and you're like, I don't, I don't know how to talk anymore. Katie's, Katie's big move at every Vanity Fair Oscar party was to go up to the Below the Line people and say like, hey, can I hold your Oscar? Oh, yeah. A will to let you do it, to be clear.

• 5:22Sean Fennessey?

  That's kind of sensual.

• 5:23Amanda Dobbins?

  But also they're like, yeah, absolutely. They're drunk, they're having a great time. It's a very good move if you ever see someone with an Oscar.

• 5:28Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, see, are you are holding fast on F1, right? Last we spoke, you.

• 5:33Speaker 05

  Inside track.

• 5:35Sean Fennessey?

  Just crashing into all your competitors.

• 5:37Speaker 05

  And I have actually done 38 interviews for F1. With people from F1, but going out to the motorsports community.

• 5:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, right, right.

• 5:42Speaker 05

  And preaching its, its awards potential.

• 5:44Sean Fennessey?

  What have you learned?

• 5:46Speaker 05

  You know, there's some mixed feelings about F1 within the motorsports community. I learned that when we did the rewatchables. A lot of people are just being like, this is not my, this doesn't represent Formula One racing in my.

• 5:55Sean Fennessey?

  Not my F1.

• 5:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:56Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 5:57Speaker 05

  I feel like, are we gonna get a split this year? Is that like the, the narrative that's emerging after PTA wins DGAs?

• 6:04Sean Fennessey?

  We discussed it on the episode last week.

• 6:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 6:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, I do understand that that's appealing.

• 6:10Amanda Dobbins?

  And also that at this point in their award season, as Katie's pointing out, like, we just need something to talk about, you know, we do have, we have five weeks left. I don't know. I don't know if we're going to.

• 6:21Sean Fennessey?

  You've not moved off of One Battle the whole time.

• 6:24Amanda Dobbins?

  I do, I think that in the last few years, the race has become apparent, or the winner has become apparent earlier and earlier, and we second guess ourselves and we try to make the race interesting and.

• 6:34Amanda Dobbins?

  And then it's Enora.

• 6:35Amanda Dobbins?

  And I do think that there's a huge amount of enthusiasm for Sinners, which is a great movie. And I'm with Katie that it would be great if it wins. And Sean and I were talking about how we, we are in the unusual position of liking both contenders. You know, normally in this situation.

• 6:51Sean Fennessey?

  It's something versus something.

• 6:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly. And when we feel very strongly about what should win, I would be very happy with either. I do think that the last few years show us that one movie kind of declares itself the colossus very early on and just keeps going. So I, I do still think it will be One Battle, but I could be very wrong.

• 7:12Sean Fennessey?

  What do you think?

• 7:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I think the cynical part of me says it'll, and I love One Battle, so it's not a negative result, but I think it'll be One Battle. But there's a part of me that, that wants us to all use our power here, whatever, however thin it may be, to sort of say, what if it's Sinners? That would be so exciting. And the more people say, talk about it as if it's a likelihood, then the more the voters will say like, huh, people aren't talking about it. We should do it. So that's always my attitude during the Oscar race is like, keep, keep the hope alive.

• 7:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 7:38Sean Fennessey?

  I think we just have to wait until the PGAs. I think the PGAs are really going to tell the story because that's also ranked choice voting and that is just like the Oscar voting. And if Sinners wins there, it's going to be a nail biter.

• 7:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Because we all assume Sinners is going to win SAG for interesting reasons to me. Like, One Battle has a great ensemble also, but Sinners just seems to have it. So SAG won't tell us as much as PGA.

• 7:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I feel like they both, they, they share a lot of similarities in casting that I find interesting. They both have real discoveries, young discoveries that are the centerpieces of the movies, but they also have like this really fascinating and strong veteran group of actors behind them. You know, I think people, you don't get as much credit for casting somebody like Leo when it comes to the ensemble. You know, usually movies that have a mega star right in the middle don't win in that category. So.

• 8:25Amanda Dobbins?

  But Mike Jordan in Sinners, same thing.

• 8:27Sean Fennessey?

  True, younger, I guess. Maybe a little less proven, but I do think it's going to, I think PGA is going to say a lot.

• 8:33Amanda Dobbins?

  What about, what about Best?

• 8:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Doctor, where are you, Katie?

• 8:35Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm still on Timmy. I think it just makes sense for it to be him. I was, again, talking to shadowy Oscar campaigners, you know, everyone's just gossiping this time of year, who is saying he keeps talking to Academy members who kind of think he's obnoxious and too young and all the stuff we say about Timmy, and I just, I can't figure out how real that is.

• 8:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Let's, the "we," the "we" is not coming over to this side of the table.

• 8:55Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, he's 30, we just have to deal with that. His skin is beautiful, and we have to make our peace.

• 9:00Sean Fennessey?

  I thought, we were all at the DGAs, and I thought he acquitted himself really well in that room, you know? Like, he really, he was getting a lot of laughs, people seemed, he had, I think, has kind of like-

• 9:08Speaker 05

  Was that his Cynthia Erivo speech? What was the one where he was just like, "Oh, I have this really great Cynthia Erivo story, but she left"?

• 9:15Amanda Dobbins?

  No. This was the one where he said that Josh Safdie turned to him out of the blue the other day and said, "If you ever need an alias, it should be Mike DiPpe."

• 9:25Speaker 05

  Mike DiPpe?

• 9:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 9:26Sean Fennessey?

  And he was just like, "That was unprompted by anything."

• 9:28Speaker 05

  Incidentally, is it Wednesday? Were we recording on Wednesday?

• 9:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 9:31Speaker 05

  SD Kid, the rapper from Liverpool that some people think is Timothy Chalamet, is performing at EchoPlex in LA, and it's like $500 a ticket, because people think-

• 9:41Sean Fennessey?

  Timmy will be there.

• 9:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, interesting.

• 9:44Sean Fennessey?

  You going?

• 9:44Speaker 05

  No, I have a live show.

• 9:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, well, sorry.

• 9:47Sean Fennessey?

  Geez, you're opening for SD Kid?

• 9:51Speaker 05

  I am SD Kid, in fact. I am a Liver Budlian rapper.

• 9:57Sean Fennessey?

  Were there any major snubs this year that we felt like were unforgivable?

• 10:01Amanda Dobbins?

  I've been so deep in snubs from every year.

• 10:03Speaker 05

  Do you want to define snub for us?

• 10:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah. What is a snub? Oh, here we go.

• 10:08Sean Fennessey?

  Well, honestly, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know that it's a useful word.

• 10:11Amanda Dobbins?

  That's how the breakout clip we were looking for.

• 10:14Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I don't, I don't operate that way, you know? I think there is complexity in all of these concepts. You know, Mark Harris, longtime Oscar pundit, author, has like famously for years been saying, "There's no such thing as a snub," that that's not how this works. And I've never really agreed with that point of view. I do think that, for example, Amanda Seyfried not getting in over Kate Hudson, to me, I find hard to accept. Like, from a purely emotional and analytical perspective, it's just a much bigger and more interesting performance, in my opinion. Subjective. Snubs are subjective, you know, and that's kind of how this works. But, over time-

• 10:49Sean Fennessey?

  The body tends to recognize greatness and a lot of the movies and performances that we'll talk about throughout this draft, there's not a lot of controversy around the greatness of 2001: A Space Odyssey, for example. You might not like it, but it has been acclaimed and affirmed as a masterpiece. So, a movie like that, I think rises very clearly to the level of snub. But that's not a specific definition, it's just kind of a gut feeling that I have. I don't know, what do you think?

• 11:15Amanda Dobbins?

  I think you can only have distance to understand a snub. That's what I think, which I think is what's so interesting about what we're gonna do today. But Katie and I, a couple months ago, whenever that was, we went back through sort of like the last 10 years of Best Picture wins, and we were just looking at like, what do we think should have won? And that was a really fun exercise, because you know, with some distance, you can say what the movie of that year was and how it's resonating, you know, down the line of history. I don't think Enora is going to be the movie of that year. I don't think we yet know exactly what the movie of that year is, you know. So, that's why I like what we're doing, because we can go back as far as we want into Oscar history to look at why massive, famous directors never got an Oscar win and rectify it here today on this podcast.

• 11:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Or why actors win for a performance that you look at, you're like, no one cares about the movie, nobody remembers it, but they were in the press and they were doing interviews in an interesting way.

• 12:05Speaker 05

  And it was a make good for other ones.

• 12:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh yeah, we're definitely talking about makeup wins. Like, it's always interesting to me why things happen, even if it's not the right thing. That's why I love the Oscars, even when they get it wrong. And that's what so much of this is going to be. So, the story behind it, from that moment, is totally fascinating, even if it's not the right win at all.

• 12:22Sean Fennessey?

  What do you think?

• 12:22Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I do think Joe's right, that some of it is historical, and then some of it is also a response to the fact that this is an industry now. And so, a snub is a very real thing, in my opinion, because we spend so much time talking about who will and won't be nominated, and there is more and more attention paid to predictions at betting markets and all sorts of things. And then, you wake up and someone doesn't get the phone call on Oscar morning. And so, there is that real feeling, I think, and entire businesses are oriented around, oh, I thought we had this, or I thought this person was gonna be in. Chase Infinity would have been my pick.

• 12:55Sean Fennessey?

  I was thinking Paul Meskell this year.

• 12:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, Kate Hudson in that. Best actor spot, but it's it's someone who was present and who has been in the conversation. And then suddenly was not. And, you know, and I guess in the in the present tense, that's but based on, you know, for your consideration in the industry. And then to Joe's point, historically, it's it's the movies that are in the conversation because we still talk about them.

• 13:17Sean Fennessey?

  Right. Chris, you're not as Oscar-pilled as the four of us.

• 13:19Speaker 05

  I'm not, no. But it was a really interesting exercise to go back through Oscar history and both see how far back, you know, historical disappointments reach beyond like Harvey Weinstein and stuff like that. Like, it's like, it goes all the way back to pretty much the inception of the award. So it was really cool to look and be like, oh, man, like, I can't believe this didn't get nominated. I can't believe this didn't win. You have two different categories, like two different styles of category here that I think is worth noting in the outset of this conversation. One is we're going to do a bunch of best pictures that are about nominees that didn't win, that we feel like were snubbed and some that are, then we have best pictures that we feel like should have been nominated that were. We do the same for the performers or similar to the performers.

• 14:03Sean Fennessey?

  You want to talk about all the ornate rules that have been designed around this?

• 14:06Speaker 05

  I think you should talk about it because this is your architect from the Matrix moment. And I want to see if you've walled yourself in with your own stacks of DVDs and can't see over the piles.

• 14:16Sean Fennessey?

  First of all, this is, I was born to do this.

• 14:20Amanda Dobbins?

  And it became a little annoying, you know, the more, the more that we all had to like consult the great oracle.

• 14:26Speaker 05

  This is the longest text message thread ever of questions about the rules.

• 14:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. And I think, well, I'll just speak myself. Your feelings are already hurt.

• 14:35Sean Fennessey?

  I feel like I've done it. I feel like I have, the Wizard of Oz has arrived.

• 14:38Amanda Dobbins?

  There were a couple of times where you're like, is this too hard? And we're like, no, no, no, we can do this. But then also there are some questions I didn't ask. I was like, you've asked nine questions in a row. I think that's as many questions as you get.

• 14:47Sean Fennessey?

  And honestly, the fuckups and the mishaps are a part of the fun, too. I'll, basically, what I wrote through, how did we, how did I select the categories? It was more of like an emotional clarification around my thinking around this exercise. All of the questions that you guys asked, all of which were very good, were really more practical. We're like, how are we going to do this? So I think I'll just go through what I set up and then you guys. Guys can talk about the things that you were like, but this, but this, but this, all of which I think the audience at home needs to understand so that they can follow along as we play the game.

• 15:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Right?

• 15:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:17Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so we want to represent films that didn't get nominated at all, as well as nominees that were brutally overlooked. That can happen in both of the types of categories that we have selected here, and Katie has been pushing on that, and I think that that makes a lot of sense. Also, it's impossible to limit our pool beyond decades or centuries, so we are relying on each other to narrativize our picks and explain why the snub was so egregious in the moment. And for me at least, I'm curious what ramifications it had for future Academy Awards. So a lot of times when a film or a performance wins, there's a big ripple effect through history around future victories for other actors and actresses, something I'm fascinated by. And then when selecting, you must choose both the film that was snubbed and the film you would replace it with in the nomination categories. In the winner categories, it's assumed it would replace the winner,

• 16:01Sean Fennessey?

  but be prepared to discuss what the winner was in the category and why it did not deserve the win. Now, in terms of the rules of engagement, if you take a movie from a specific year or a performance from a specific year, that year is then completely off the board. So that makes this a very challenging game. You pointed out that means because we have seven categories, we will have 49 different years of Oscar history represented here.

• 16:27Amanda Dobbins?

  I think I did bad math, 35 years, right?

• 16:29Sean Fennessey?

  35, sorry, seven times five.

• 16:30Amanda Dobbins?

  No one responded to that. I was like, oh, it's because my math is bad.

• 16:33Sean Fennessey?

  Sorry, 35. Clearly mine was as well because I didn't double check that. So 35 years across the 90-plus years of Oscar history, which is a lot, but not so many. Are you daunted by that?

• 16:43Speaker 05

  No.

• 16:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, good job.

• 16:45Speaker 05

  I don't think so.

• 16:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. It's okay. I mean, it's a lot of movies.

• 16:48Speaker 05

  Well, you know, there's another restriction that I kind of added to this, to myself, which is not one I expect everybody to, but for the nominee snubs, so for things that were not even nominated, I tried to keep it, like, I could make an argument that this plausibly could have or should have been nominated.

• 17:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 17:05Speaker 05

  So I'm not doing like,

• 17:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 17:07Speaker 05

  you know, why didn't Gina Carano get nominated for Haywire or something like that?

• 17:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, she though.

• 17:15Sean Fennessey?

  What do you mean about her?

• 17:16Amanda Dobbins?

  We can live with that one, I think.

• 17:17Sean Fennessey?

  I'm just saying, Mandalorian fell off and she left, you know?

• 17:23Amanda Dobbins?

  I did also find myself, there were a few where I, especially in the winner categories, where I was like, I, I can't actually take the Oscar away from the winner.

• 17:32Speaker 05

  Oh, okay.

• 17:33Amanda Dobbins?

  In there, in the real year. I, like, I can't make that argument.

• 17:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 17:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Or I, you know, I don't think, I don't think that's good for history of the world. And so I, I didn't put it down.

• 17:41Speaker 05

  I have two, I have two that I think I'm, I'm gonna be pressed to make the argument for. But I, I believe in it.

• 17:48Sean Fennessey?

  Again, this is a subjective game.

• 17:49Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 17:50Sean Fennessey?

  If there's not a, a holistic total truth about even good Oscar wins, they can be upended or undermined and, and we should do that. I think it's more fun if we do.

• 17:58Amanda Dobbins?

  And how do you, how do you guys feel about like the winners that like from the 30s and 40s? You may or may not have seen, and there's a whole bunch of other things you might not have seen, and there's something you want to make the case for. But do we feel okay just taking away the Oscar from someone whose movie we haven't seen?

• 18:11Sean Fennessey?

  I intend to do it today.

• 18:12Amanda Dobbins?

  All right, just making sure, like.

• 18:14Sean Fennessey?

  It is on my board.

• 18:18Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, here are the seven categories. Best Picture nominee snub 20th century. So that means these are all movies that did not make it into Best Picture that we believe should have gone in. Best Picture nominee snub 21st century, obviously a much smaller pool to pull from there. Best Picture winner snub. Now, in this category and in all winner categories, like I said, you can choose something that was not nominated. I'm personally not going to be doing that, but anything that's on the board that recently could have been nominated in one, I think is, is, is reasonable. Is that, does that make sense to you?

• 18:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, because we have the nomination categories also for pictures.

• 18:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 18:51Amanda Dobbins?

  So it makes sense to split them.

• 18:52Sean Fennessey?

  Best Actor winner snub, Best Actress winner snub, Best Director winner snub, and Wild Card.

• 18:57Speaker 05

  What's Wild Card?

• 18:58Sean Fennessey?

  Any category.

• 18:59Speaker 05

  Somehow didn't get drafted.

• 19:00Sean Fennessey?

  Doesn't have to be from those six that we set up. Could be, and it could be, could be Sound Design.

• 19:05Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 19:05Sean Fennessey?

  If you wanted it to be.

• 19:06Speaker 05

  Shit.

• 19:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Got some strong Sound Design opinions?

• 19:08Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah, you got it.

• 19:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Can you do it from any like? A defunct category that no longer exists.

• 19:14Sean Fennessey?

  I think so.

• 19:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Are you gonna do like black and white photography?

• 19:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 19:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Obviously, you know me.

• 19:19Sean Fennessey?

  Young performer. There have been some interesting ones that they've eradicated.

• 19:22Amanda Dobbins?

  The juvenile Oscars were intense back then.

• 19:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Uh, that's it. How does that sound?

• 19:26Speaker 05

  That sounds good.

• 19:27Sean Fennessey?

  Any other questions?

• 19:28Speaker 05

  I think I might need to use my computer.

• 19:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 19:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I'm gonna try it.

• 19:32Sean Fennessey?

  Did you get thrown off by Wildcard?

• 19:34Speaker 05

  No, but I just think I'm gonna need to like, as things get taken off the board, I do think I'm gonna need to have like a little bit more of a.

• 19:39Sean Fennessey?

  While you're getting it, let's vamp, because I asked Amanda what superpower she wants to have on a previous episode, and I want to know what Katie and Joanna will say to that answer.

• 19:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, interesting. Oh, boy, wait. Oh, you have, you've already answered that.

• 19:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, no, it wasn't what's superpower. It was more specific.

• 19:52Sean Fennessey?

  You were like, I don't want to be a shapeshifter. I'm into invisibility, teleportation, mind control.

• 19:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Or something. Why were we talking about that?

• 19:59Sean Fennessey?

  Well, just be talking about mutants on the show.

• 20:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Is it an X-Men thing?

• 20:04Sean Fennessey?

  Why are we talking about movies?

• 20:05Amanda Dobbins?

  I guess, but I think, but it was also about aliens. I don't, it wasn't an X-Men thing. Anyway.

• 20:10Sean Fennessey?

  It was. We were talking about the new mutants, the film The New Mutants. We were talking about the gap of time.

• 20:14Amanda Dobbins?

  You were talking about the film The New Mutants?

• 20:15Sean Fennessey?

  We were, because we were talking about the, this 11 months that we're living inside of between superhero movies is the longest stretch of time I learned since, the, the period between 1998 and 2000. The longest stretch where we haven't had a superhero movie.

• 20:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Wait, Joanna, that's news to you too? I would have thought you were on top of this. Oh, you would have thought.

• 20:32Amanda Dobbins?

  I was like, I haven't been talking to Joanna enough. I don't know this.

• 20:35Amanda Dobbins?

  There's like two Game of Thrones shows this year. Like, we got plenty to base on.

• 20:39Sean Fennessey?

  Katie, what's your superpower?

• 20:40Amanda Dobbins?

  I think it's teleportation. It's like, and it's such a boring grown-up thing.

• 20:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 20:43Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't live in LA. I come here a lot for work. I just, the ability to just be somewhere.

• 20:48Sean Fennessey?

  Teleportation in LA.

• 20:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Even if you're trying to get across town, if you're trying to, if you gotta pick your kid up, how often are you like late to pick your kid up? And like, shit, if I could just be there right now. It's, uh, it's so useful.

• 20:56Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good call. Joanna, what do you think?

• 20:58Amanda Dobbins?

  It's the same, but like more in the vein of like world travel. Oh, so you're, you're super fun. You're gonna use your powers for good.

• 21:04Amanda Dobbins?

  That's true. I don't have a kid to pick up from daycare.

• 21:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, what do you want?

• 21:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, that's all that's holding me.

• 21:08Speaker 05

  I'd like to be Michael Mann.

• 21:11Sean Fennessey?

  Are you sure that's super?

• 21:13Speaker 05

  Superman with two N's.

• 21:14Sean Fennessey?

  Nice, very good. I like that.

• 21:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow, really good.

• 21:17Speaker 05

  You know, it's, it's, all of them are, are poison chalices, you know? Because all of our favorite mutants, they're like, my great power, but my great frailty. So.

• 21:27Amanda Dobbins?

  I have a hard time telling you that, teleportation. I really like, I just feel like I could nail it.

• 21:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, well, I, probably expectation, right? Then it's something like, well, I definitely think that you can be in this meeting and also, and, and the class mom, and also in Europe. What was Cable's power?

• 21:42Sean Fennessey?

  I don't, I think he had a giant gun.

• 21:45Sean Fennessey?

  DT, time travel?

• 21:46Amanda Dobbins?

  There's time travel.

• 21:46Speaker 05

  I'll be Cable.

• 21:47Sean Fennessey?

  I'll be Cable? I love it. I want to see the fan art right now of CR as Cable. Wow, that's, that is achievable. CR heads, you have your assignment. Uh, okay, I think we should set a draft order. Jack?

• 22:04Speaker 05

  Crucial here.

• 22:04Amanda Dobbins?

  I know.

• 22:05Sean Fennessey?

  Here we go.

• 22:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, this is exciting.

• 22:09Sean Fennessey?

  Two just flew out. I don't know if you saw that. Two what? Two of your names, so I'm gonna grab one from my lap.

• 22:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Is it a bowl with our names in it?

• 22:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's a Dungeons and Dragons die.

• 22:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I keep hearing about the Dungeons and Dragons die, but I couldn't really picture it.

• 22:20Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, well, maybe the Dungeons and Dragons are coming through because with the first overall pick is Joanna Robinson.

• 22:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow. Exciting. Congratulations.

• 22:29Sean Fennessey?

  Drafting second, Amanda Dobbins.

• 22:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow, okay. At least it's not last. I've had the turn so many times.

• 22:35Sean Fennessey?

  You guys feel like the draft order is crucial for this one? I feel like there are so many options. Like, is there a clear?

• 22:41Amanda Dobbins?

  There are so many options, but there are like, five at the top that you really want to get. And like, we want to see for a couple of years. I have a hard time not feeling like we're just making a list of the best ones, but I want the best ones, right? Like, someone's gonna like, but like, I was listening to you on the hype draft. I was like, I just want what I care about. I don't care, I don't care.

• 22:58Sean Fennessey?

  There's some things that I think will just be cool to have, you know, that are interesting to me. And then there, there's, like, for, for you and I, there's like five or six that we can't stop talking about.

• 23:07Amanda Dobbins?

  And the year of it all. There are like a few years that are gonna go pretty fast. So that's, that's the issue.

• 23:13Sean Fennessey?

  Drafting third is Chris Ryan, fourth Sean Fennessey. Fifth, Katie. Oh, Katie on the turn. Are you ready for this?

• 23:19Amanda Dobbins?

  And you understand what the turn is? I get two. Yeah. Okay. Correct. But you have to wait.

• 23:22Sean Fennessey?

  This will be in snake fashion.

• 23:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 23:24Sean Fennessey?

  You like snake fashion?

• 23:24Amanda Dobbins?

  I do like snake fashion, thanks.

• 23:26Sean Fennessey?

  Um, well, the moment of truth.

• 23:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I think, I think there's only one first choice. Okay. Oh, wow. Do you disagree?

• 23:36Sean Fennessey?

  I think there are two. I think there are two really strong first contenders.

• 23:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, okay. But I think that is also a little bit on personal preference, you know?

• 23:44Sean Fennessey?

  For sure.

• 23:45Amanda Dobbins?

  So maybe, you know?

• 23:46Sean Fennessey?

  For sure.

• 23:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Here she goes.

• 23:47Sean Fennessey?

  I'm very curious to hear what you do.

• 23:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, well, I think in Best Picture win snub, I'm taking Mad Max: Fury Road off the table. Wow. You guys don't think that's the number one?

• 24:01Sean Fennessey?

  Not, not, definitely not.

• 24:03Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm on House of R. That is 2015 off the table. Okay. Yeah, and that's not thinking strategically of like, who else can I knock off the table? I had a really good wildcard for 2015.

• 24:13Sean Fennessey?

  I had a really good 2015 too.

• 24:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Was your, was yours also Ray Fiennes from Bigger Splash?

• 24:17Sean Fennessey?

  It wasn't.

• 24:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, that was gonna be a fun one. Goodbye, delete from wildcard, okay.

• 24:22Sean Fennessey?

  It was gonna be Carol Best Picture nominee.

• 24:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Well, that's a great one. That's good. And look at the damage I did. Great for me. All right, so. Well, speak on it. Mad Max: Fury Road, I think when Katie and I were looking back, with love and respect to Spotlight.

• 24:35Sean Fennessey?

  I guess you, journalism under assault.

• 24:39Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not about journalism, it's about the post-apocalypse now, Chris, that's the reality of it.

• 24:42Sean Fennessey?

  I cannot wait for Marty Baron to weigh in on your.

• 24:45Amanda Dobbins?

  What feels more resonant, guzzling or journalism? Right now, it's guzzling, so, uh.

• 24:51Sean Fennessey?

  They're intertwined.

• 24:53Amanda Dobbins?

  I think, yes, true. I think that, um, you know, this is a year where, this is before, you know, this is post Dark Knight, sort of, we are, we are trying to show that we are hip to genre, but it is before a bigger pivot to we are actually honoring genre in the top categories move that the Academy made. So Mad Max: Fury Road won a bunch, like, all these Below the Line awards, but I remember the conversation this, that year was just sort of like, but no way it's gonna win Best Picture. And I think if, if this were to happen again, it would definitely. Be a different conversation, you know what I mean?

• 25:25Sean Fennessey?

  I think this is in the, in the, the, kind of the blood of the sinners conversation.

• 25:29Amanda Dobbins?

  The sinners, yeah.

• 25:30Sean Fennessey?

  It's like, this is a real true blue genre movie with a crazy vampire freakout ending.

• 25:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yep.

• 25:34Sean Fennessey?

  And stuff like that, I mean, through the first 75 years of the Oscars, had no chance.

• 25:38Amanda Dobbins?

  And I-

• 25:39Sean Fennessey?

  And now, you know, it's changing.

• 25:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly. After like Everything Everywhere All at Once and, and et cetera. And so I think that Mad Max: Fury Road, as a movie that almost everyone acknowledges is an absolute classic that worked despite itself, and, and has an incredible book written about it, that a lot of people, like, most people who love film has, have read Kyle Buchanan's book. So like, if you're a film that the gen pop loves and film scholars study, you deserve to have won the Best Picture that year. So that is my pick.

• 26:11Sean Fennessey?

  It's a tough one for CR.

• 26:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 26:12Sean Fennessey?

  Big spotlight head.

• 26:13Speaker 05

  No, I'm excited to, this is, this is a good, like, I, I would love to have picked that. It was not in like my upper, upper, like, blue, blue ribbon, like, I have to get this. This is a really good way to start.

• 26:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm up.

• 26:26Sean Fennessey?

  You're up.

• 26:26Amanda Dobbins?

  I, so, we can talk about strategy here. I've learned over the years, if you really want something, if something's important to you-

• 26:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 26:33Amanda Dobbins?

  You gotta take it, even though that means, in my case, I'm leaving 2007 on the board, I'm leaving 76 on the board. I, in 2010, also in Best Picture nominee snub, I mean, winner snub, will be taking The Social Network.

• 26:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Which, to me, is one of the great miscarriage of Oscar justices of our lifetime. And this is still my favorite David Fincher movie, certainly my favorite Aaron Sorkin movie. It was our number one on 25 for 25, and it lost to The King's Speech. Like, I don't know what you say. It lost to a Tom Hooper movie. So, and I, yeah, I like Colin Firth as much as The Next Woman. Um, I just, this was insane. And David Fincher doesn't have an Oscar. Like, what are we doing? What, what are we doing? What are we doing? So, that's my pick. Thank you so much. Great pick.

• 27:26Amanda Dobbins?

  You guys just picked two movies that are like classic old Oscars, like what the Oscars were before they expanded the Academy.

• 27:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 27:31Amanda Dobbins?

  I think that the Mad Max years and Oscars-

• 27:33Amanda Dobbins?

  A white year like it really those like the last two of the like, come on, guys. We can't really keep doing this anymore. And now it's different.

• 27:39Amanda Dobbins?

  And with the King's Speech, like Colin, he won as it felt like a make good to me in my, my heart for a single man, for losing for a single man. And so I'm happy with his win, but that movie did not need to win. Do you know what I mean? Like?

• 27:52Sean Fennessey?

  The Tom Hooper win is arguably worse. I mean, that's, that's an abominable win in Oscar history. The King's Speech is a perfectly fine movie that has been villainized because it lost, it won in this race.

• 28:02Amanda Dobbins?

  And because of the Weinstein.

• 28:04Sean Fennessey?

  Right, sure. And, and the tactics by which it, you know, it, it won the race. But, um, yeah, that to me, I thought for, for our purposes, that, that was the number one overall pick. But actually it makes complete sense based on your passions and history that you would go Mad Max Fury Road. Okay. CR, you're, you're at number three. You've heard two passionate 2010s selections.

• 28:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Are you taking us to 1930s?

• 28:27Speaker 05

  No, not yet. I think, um, I think I'm gonna do, for Best Picture winner, Snow, I'm gonna do 1990 and I'm gonna take Goodfellas over Dances with Wolves. This is a really difficult choice because there's a couple here, especially in this era that I'd like to correct. But this is the most egregious one. Now, obviously from personal bias, Goodfellas is one of my favorite films ever made, but I think history has proven that like, this is a much more significant piece of cinema and a much more, much larger pop culture footprint than Dances with Wolves, which is not even that bad of a movie. But is like a classic, like, great man, great, you know, great effort on one man's part, Costner directing himself.

• 29:12Speaker 05

  Goodfellas is just like a flat out five star, watch it 400 times masterpiece. And the fact that Scorsese had to wait, what, 20 more years to get his, his Oscar for Departed?

• 29:23Sean Fennessey?

  16.

• 29:23Speaker 05

  16. Um, it's just ridiculous. So I'll take Goodfellas.

• 29:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Can I ask you a teaser question?

• 29:28Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 29:29Amanda Dobbins?

  So we were saying before that like, if I pick like, if I pick Scorsese losing for Goodfellas and like, someone else isn't gonna be able to draft him for Taxi Driver or something. Do we say that for movies too? Like, we're not doing another Fincher movie? We're not doing another Scorsese movie?

• 29:40Speaker 05

  Ooh.

• 29:41Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think so.

• 29:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. It seems too hard to me.

• 29:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think for actor, yes, but for filmmaker, no. Also because the filmmaker doesn't get the Best Picture win.

• 29:49Amanda Dobbins?

  That's true. Goodfellas is off the board.

• 29:52Speaker 05

  But Martin Scorsese is not.

• 29:53Amanda Dobbins?

  But Martin Scorsese is not.

• 29:55Amanda Dobbins?

  90 is off the board, which is good. You saved me from doing a very trolly.

• 29:59Sean Fennessey?

  Thing of taking Julia Roberts for Pretty Woman.

• 30:01Amanda Dobbins?

  That would have been a great pick.

• 30:01Sean Fennessey?

  1990, which I was never gonna do because I also believe that Goodfellas is like the greater injustice. But I did just delete it. That would have been funny.

• 30:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:09Sean Fennessey?

  I, well, but listen. It had a very low likelihood of happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I also, like, that's one of the things where I was talking about where even some of my picks and doing like Amanda shit, like, my heart isn't really in that one.

• 30:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I think.

• 30:22Sean Fennessey?

  If, if you can only. There's gonna be room for it in certain places. If you can only have one pick from 1990, it's gotta be Goodfellas or Scorsese.

• 30:29Amanda Dobbins?

  There's also like, as, as I think about it as this like fixing history, Julia Roberts has her Oscar. You know what I mean? Like, that's, that's how I approach a lot of these wins.

• 30:37Sean Fennessey?

  She's good in Brockovich and I love that dress. I did the opposite in a lot of cases. In a lot of cases, I was like, this person got their Oscar too late.

• 30:44Amanda Dobbins?

  For the wrong movie, okay.

• 30:44Sean Fennessey?

  And so I'm gonna try to work backwards to fix that.

• 30:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Did you think time travel is your superpower? Cause that feels like what you're trying to do.

• 30:51Sean Fennessey?

  I would like to control time and space. Is that on the board? Is that something?

• 30:55Amanda Dobbins?

  In this room, I think it is.

• 30:56Sean Fennessey?

  That's what the Infinity Gems are about, right?

• 30:57Amanda Dobbins?

  That's what you're saying.

• 30:58Sean Fennessey?

  I don't want the gone. I don't need a power. I need a glove.

• 31:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 31:01Sean Fennessey?

  That's what I need.

• 31:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, Thanos it is.

• 31:02Sean Fennessey?

  Um.

• 31:03Amanda Dobbins?

  So I'm looking for Chris Ryan as Cable Fanart and Sean Fennessey as Thanos.

• 31:08Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, long time listeners of the show, no, Thanos is my guy.

• 31:10Amanda Dobbins?

  And then just a trio of teleporters over here.

• 31:14Speaker 05

  Going to the beach.

• 31:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 31:15Speaker 05

  Going downtown. Going to the beach, going downtown.

• 31:17Amanda Dobbins?

  It sounds great.

• 31:18Sean Fennessey?

  It's really interesting that the three picks have been Best Picture winners because that is the place where like our mind goes when we think of snubs, right? We think of, and I don't even, it's really more injustice or travesties. You know, years ago at Grantland, we did a bracket, a whole week of Oscar travesties. One of my first, that was, this is, that was sort of the origin, I think, of whatever the fuck this show is. Um, and there are a handful.

• 31:41Sean Fennessey?

  There are a handful.

• 31:42Speaker 05

  Of travesties.

• 31:42Sean Fennessey?

  Of brutal travesties. I think especially the last two or two that in my mind are egregious. I, I think.

• 31:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Not yours, Serena.

• 31:51Sean Fennessey?

  I, no, I don't, I don't think it's egregious because I think Spotlight people have a warm feeling about. Um, and not that they don't have a warm feeling towards Dancing with the Wolves. I feel like people do still kinda like that movie, but they've taken on more villainous persp- like, uh, personas. I'm just gonna go with like, I think, maybe the worst win of all time for Best Picture winner, which is Brokeback Mountain Over Crash.

• 32:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Had to be done.

• 32:14Sean Fennessey?

  And it's a little bit of a chalk pick, and it's a, kinda doesn't really necessitate a huge explanation, but is a bizarre win. It's a year where there was a split, where Ang Lee did win Best Director. This takes 2005 off the board, by the way.

• 32:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, deleting the squid and the whale from Best Nominee stuff.

• 32:32Sean Fennessey?

  Tough one.

• 32:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Well.

• 32:35Sean Fennessey?

  You know, obviously, Ang Lee's movie is beautiful, and Paul Haggas's movie is kind of incoherent, as you and Van explored on the rewatchables. It is kind of an amusing, how the fuck did this happen revisit, but.

• 32:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, we were fixing racism, and we did it.

• 32:50Sean Fennessey?

  And we did fix it. We did fix it because we got Green Book 13 years later, and it fixed it. So, thanks to them. There are other ones that I think I maybe feel a little bit more personally passionate about, about movies that I wish would have won, but I think that this is the, this is the snub of snubs, in my mind. Okay. Katie, you've got two picks.

• 33:10Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, and I feel like, all these, you pass, I've had in my mind of where I can go, now it's actually coming down to making some choices. I still think none of, none of you have done the Best Picture snub that I thought was going to happen, and this is gonna be in nominations for me, but it's Do the Right Thing.

• 33:24Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 33:24Amanda Dobbins?

  In 1989.

• 33:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, taking 89 off the board is tough for me.

• 33:28Amanda Dobbins?

  And I don't think that you can do another one for 89. You can't, even though, like, I have Do the Right Thing instead of When Harry Met Sally, even though When Harry Met Sally is also, but, it's another one where Do the Right Thing is, like, is probably the other great travesty.

• 33:45Amanda Dobbins?

  It's tough, it's tough for my Spike Lee and director hopes, but that's okay.

• 33:49Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, it's tough for that. Like, I've made a case at one point for Fight the Power, and Original Song as being an all-time snub. Like, that would be a fun one, but, again, the fact that, like, then.

• 33:57Sean Fennessey?

  But you're good with Danny Aiello being the only acting.

• 33:59Amanda Dobbins?

  I think that makes sense, and that was right and true, and history has pointed out. The fact that it repeats itself again later on, when you've got Green Book, the same year as Black Klansman, like, the heck, the Spike Lee, really has done a lot to kind of call out the Oscars for their blind spots. Like, you know, the Oscars for White Movement, the International Academy happened. Beyond him, but he was, he's been pushing that boulder up a hill for a long time. We may have a chance to talk about other major Spike Lee snubs at the Oscars, but I do think do the right thing is kind of the, the be all end all.

• 34:25Sean Fennessey?

  There's that amazing red carpet moment from 2018 where he's asked about Green Book on the red carpet. And he kind of like looks into the camera and he's like, now I come to you. And then he like kind of runs away laughing and maniacally.

• 34:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Cause it was, the interviewer was British. That was at the V F Oscar.

• 34:38Amanda Dobbins?

  That was at the V F party. Yeah.

• 34:39Sean Fennessey?

  Really funny.

• 34:40Amanda Dobbins?

  If I was through that year or not.

• 34:42Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, Katie, you've got another pick.

• 34:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. So Sean, I feel like I'm going to jump ahead to what you were trying to do in terms of the, the fixing history aspect of this. Cause I didn't really follow what you were doing. And I feel there's a lot of people who were not even nominated in some of these acting categories that I wanted to make the case for, but then I came across a way to fix history completely.

• 34:58Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 34:58Amanda Dobbins?

  And I want to throw this out there. And I'm nervous about taking this year off the board because you guys are going to have thought of something I haven't done. But I'm going to 1974. If you give Jack Nicholson best actor for Chinatown.

• 35:10Amanda Dobbins?

  The, he loses that year to Art Carney in Harry and Tonto, a movie I have not seen and know very little about. It's about a cat, which is up my alley. Um, I want to give all due respect to Art Carney.

• 35:18Sean Fennessey?

  It's a nice film.

• 35:18Amanda Dobbins?

  It does seem like a nice film and everyone liked him and it was a real, a kind of win we've seen a lot of time, where someone who you've liked a while gets his moment out there. So if Jack Nicholson wins for Chinatown, then maybe say he doesn't win the next year for Cuckoo's Nest. He might have. It might've just been a double up. But if he doesn't win for Cuckoo's Nest the next year, then Pacino can win for Dog Day Afternoon, which is the same year in 75. And then if Pacino wins for Dog Day Afternoon, you get to 1992. He doesn't need his makeup Oscar and Denzel Washington can win for Malcolm X.

• 35:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow.

• 35:45Amanda Dobbins?

  So you're, so you're fixing it.

• 35:46Sean Fennessey?

  Hold on, we're not done yet. So I had this exact same idea.

• 35:50Amanda Dobbins?

  But you guys are going, you're doing Nicholson over Pacino.

• 35:54Sean Fennessey?

  So here's, here's what I did.

• 35:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. All right.

• 35:56Sean Fennessey?

  I did 1973 and 1974. I didn't take an Oscar away from Art Carney. I took an Oscar who only had one. I took an Oscar away from Jack Lemmon, who already had one. Jack Lemmon won in 73 for Save the Tiger. If you take that away and give it to Jack Nicholson for the last detail, arguably his best performance, then you don't need Nicholson to win in 75 and you get to do a Katie delineated, which is you give to Pacino for Dog Day Afternoon. Then you don't have to wait until 1992. In 1992, you give Malcolm X. Denzel's win there, which is one of the great Oscar snubs of all time. Then that means that you don't have to give Denzel in 2001, the Training Day Oscar, which is a fine Oscar, but is a real makeup. Then that means that Will Smith can win that year for Ali,

• 36:37Sean Fennessey?

  which then means Will Smith does not have to win for King Richard, which means the slap never happens.

• 36:43Speaker 05

  But who cares if the slap happens?

• 36:45Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I don't care.

• 36:46Speaker 05

  It's just a great one if.

• 36:47Sean Fennessey?

  He could have died. You could have killed him.

• 36:51Speaker 05

  There would have been no pressure that night for Wilson.

• 36:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I'd like to litigate all of this, just in the sense of, I'm-

• 36:57Amanda Dobbins?

  It doesn't count. These are fun what ifs, but like-

• 37:00Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 37:00Speaker 05

  It's also an interesting idea that once you win one, you're off the board.

• 37:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but also, like, I'm giving Pacino the Oscar for Godfather 2 every single time. He's amazing.

• 37:10Sean Fennessey?

  Well, you're not in this draft because you just lost 1974.

• 37:14Amanda Dobbins?

  If I'm changing 1974, like, I think if I have to pick a single greatest screen performance ever, like, it might be Pacino in Godfather 2, that it's incredible. So, but, I mean, you know, Nicholson's-

• 37:26Amanda Dobbins?

  But I don't know if he's a serpico.

• 37:27Amanda Dobbins?

  He's really good in that, too. But, anyway, there, I'm deleting it. Delete.

• 37:31Sean Fennessey?

  I do, this to me was the most fun of this draft.

• 37:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, I'm glad that we went the same direction.

• 37:36Sean Fennessey?

  We had the exact same idea.

• 37:37Amanda Dobbins?

  That woman really becomes a problem in a lot of these. Like, he gets nominated a lot, he keeps not winning, they keep feeling like they own. Paul Newman has the same thing. We might get to some of them. It's some of those guys.

• 37:44Sean Fennessey?

  Great pick. We've broken out of the 90s and 2000s. Thank you, Katie. Okay, that means it's me?

• 37:51Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 37:52Sean Fennessey?

  Shit, I don't know what I'm doing. You gotta take a look. Hmm, hmm, where do I want to go?

• 38:01Amanda Dobbins?

  This is always really fun, when you chastise everybody else for not being ready. And be like, you have to vamp, you have to vamp.

• 38:07Sean Fennessey?

  I haven't done that once.

• 38:08Amanda Dobbins?

  And then you're just, you're searching.

• 38:09Sean Fennessey?

  These are four of the most gifted podcasters on earth, and you're sitting here quietly while I say, hmm, into a microphone.

• 38:15Speaker 05

  Why? Talk amongst yourselves.

• 38:18Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm thinking about years.

• 38:19Speaker 05

  You're doing a self-vamp, which is a lead podcast.

• 38:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, there you go.

• 38:22Speaker 05

  You've gotten distracted by something she did. You're vamping while you're also thinking.

• 38:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 38:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Are you guys thinking years about like, what you can grab before somebody else does?

• 38:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's how I've organized all of it. Like, I only have one pick.

• 38:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Per year. Wow.

• 38:38Amanda Dobbins?

  I did a spreadsheet where-

• 38:39Amanda Dobbins?

  You have to make the hard choices first. It's true. You did a spreadsheet.

• 38:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Left hand is all the years and then right hand is the category. So I can see across the year, what are the options that I want for that year?

• 38:50Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, I've got one.

• 38:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm not sure it's gonna help me.

• 38:51Speaker 05

  But it's only Lily and Gish.

• 38:54Amanda Dobbins?

  So to be clear, 76 and 2007 are still on the board?

• 38:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, they are.

• 38:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. And 99?

• 39:00Sean Fennessey?

  They'll still be on the board after I make my pick, which is gonna be for Best Picture snub, Singing in the Rain from 1952.

• 39:07Amanda Dobbins?

  I thought it was gonna be there. Yeah.

• 39:09Sean Fennessey?

  I think a case for the worst Academy Award Best Picture win of all time, Behind Crash is maybe the greatest show on earth. No offense, Steven Spielberg, who loves that film and featured it prominently at the beginning of The Fabelman.

• 39:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Real, real tough feat for Jimmy Stewart, from you.

• 39:25Sean Fennessey?

  This is a, actually a pretty interesting collection of Best Picture nominees that year.

• 39:29Speaker 05

  This is when Cecil ran shit.

• 39:32Sean Fennessey?

  Truly is. High Noon, Ivanhoe, Moulin Rouge, John Huston's Moulin Rouge, and The Quiet Man were the other nominees that year. Singing in the Rain should be the winner, in my opinion, in this race. And I would just take The Greatest Show on Earth out completely, which is a movie that I think is like fun and I understand it's spectacle and I understand why six-year-old Steven Spielberg would have his life changed forever by it. But for me, it's kinda boring.

• 39:54Amanda Dobbins?

  This, Singing in the Rain was obviously top of my Best Picture nominee snub list, one of my favorite movies. But I will say, because it's perceived, I think, at like retroactive history, that Singing in the Rain wasn't really even in the mix because An American in Paris had won several years before. You know, another Stanley Donovan, Gene Kelly musical, Fantasia. I think that An American in Paris gets a bad rap. That's all I have to say.

• 40:18Sean Fennessey?

  It's okay.

• 40:18Amanda Dobbins?

  It's amazing. We watched it again recently, like, oh, I'm sorry. Like, you're against the Gershwins all of a sudden?

• 40:24Sean Fennessey?

  No, it's good. It's fine.

• 40:25Amanda Dobbins?

  When Gene's like setting up his studio and doing his ballet with the ne- it's very special stuff.

• 40:30Amanda Dobbins?

  It's got an incredible dance set piece.

• 40:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 40:33Amanda Dobbins?

  But I don't know that it's a movie.

• 40:34Speaker 05

  I'm so-

• 40:35Amanda Dobbins?

  It's beautiful.

• 40:36Speaker 05

  Excited for when Knox transitions fully into like full-blown Star Wars and you're in here next to your, with your eyes bugging out of your head being like, "The thing is about Rogue One that nobody understands is that Gilroy only shot the interiors."

• 40:53Amanda Dobbins?

  That's the journey I've been on as a parent. Amanda, I'll help you out. I'll give you some notes.

• 40:56Amanda Dobbins?

  I just need you to come over and find all the other pieces of the Mandalorian's- Also, what is his name? Can anyone tell?

• 41:03Sean Fennessey?

  Din Djarin.

• 41:04Amanda Dobbins?

  What?

• 41:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, just listen to me. Din Djarin.

• 41:07Sean Fennessey?

  Din Djarin.

• 41:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Din?

• 41:09Speaker 05

  Is it a silent J?

• 41:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 41:11Amanda Dobbins?

  D I N J. So I just want to my-

• 41:13Amanda Dobbins?

  D I N-

• 41:13Sean Fennessey?

  So it's a silent D.

• 41:14Amanda Dobbins?

  D J A R.

• 41:16Speaker 05

  What's the-

• 41:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Din Djarin.

• 41:17Sean Fennessey?

  Sort of um sociological backstory there, like the silent D.

• 41:22Speaker 05

  You got an hour and a half to-

• 41:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, because it's gonna take a minute.

• 41:25Amanda Dobbins?

  You wanna, we're doing this draft and you wanna talk about who's picked?

• 41:28Sean Fennessey?

  I kinda do, I kinda do, because as I told Chris last night.

• 41:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 41:32Sean Fennessey?

  Replaced by bedtime stories has been the Star Wars Encyclopedia with Alice, where she's just like, please just read me these entries. But I have been pronouncing the hard D at the end of-

• 41:41Speaker 05

  She'll forgive you.

• 41:42Amanda Dobbins?

  She's four.

• 41:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Din Djarin.

• 41:44Sean Fennessey?

  Din Djarin.

• 41:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 41:46Amanda Dobbins?

  This is like when my husband told my son that the ballet move tendu is pronounced tendus, which is just no, that's not, yeah. It's French.

• 41:57Amanda Dobbins?

  We've been arguing about A T A Ts versus at ats in my house, I don't know if anyone wants to do 10 minutes on that.

• 42:01Speaker 05

  I screw that up to this day.

• 42:02Amanda Dobbins?

  What is it? What's the answer?

• 42:03Speaker 05

  I think it's, I thought it was at ats, but apparently it's A T A T.

• 42:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, all right. My nine year old is right.

• 42:10Speaker 05

  It's so much cooler to call it.

• 42:11Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, but like, yeah, but like what?

• 42:14Sean Fennessey?

  God has spoken.

• 42:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Show me, what are the footnotes? Show me the work.

• 42:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I'll send you some, some uh journalists.

• 42:20Speaker 05

  You, so you had, which one?

• 42:21Sean Fennessey?

  I picked Singing in the Rain. For Best Picture nominee snub 20th century.

• 42:25Speaker 05

  1952.

• 42:26Sean Fennessey?

  Um, okay, that means, is it CR's turn?

• 42:30Speaker 05

  It's my turn, gonna stay in that same category of Best Picture snub. I did not pick that before, and I am going to take 2001 A Space Odyssey in 1969. Oliver was the winner. The other nominees were Funny Girl, Lion and Winter, Rachel, Rachel, and Romeo and Juliet.

• 42:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Wait, 68, right? Not 69?

• 42:48Speaker 05

  68, sorry, 69 Oscars, 68 movie year. Uh, Oliver won 2001 Space Odyssey, actually predicts how this world is going to end, which will happen in about nine weeks.

• 43:00Speaker 05

  It is probably never been topped as a piece of science fiction. They showed it in temples, it changed filmmaking forever. Uh, Kubrick criminally overlooked, overlooked by the Academy.

• 43:09Sean Fennessey?

  I had this in director.

• 43:10Amanda Dobbins?

  I did as well, I just deleted it from-

• 43:12Amanda Dobbins?

  As a director option, but bull, I had it for bull.

• 43:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Don't say anything rude about the Lion and Winter.

• 43:16Speaker 05

  I wasn't going to, I was gonna say of all the nominees, the only one I still have time for is Lion and Winter.

• 43:20Amanda Dobbins?

  As if it matters-

• 43:22Sean Fennessey?

  Funny Girl is good.

• 43:22Amanda Dobbins?

  How a man should die or fall.

• 43:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, when the fall is all that's left.

• 43:27Speaker 05

  Is that a mandatory one?

• 43:28Sean Fennessey?

  Have you seen Rachel Rachel?

• 43:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Dean Jordan.

• 43:31Sean Fennessey?

  Paul Newman's directorial debut.

• 43:33Speaker 05

  I didn't see it.

• 43:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Any good?

• 43:35Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good movie.

• 43:36Speaker 05

  Is it as good as 2001: A Space Odyssey?

• 43:38Sean Fennessey?

  No, it's not. But, I don't know, make some time for it.

• 43:41Amanda Dobbins?

  I want a clip of that.

• 43:44Speaker 05

  That's what the Oscars should be about. Hey, make some time for this. You know, not, let's celebrate the fact that this guy saw way into the future.

• 43:51Sean Fennessey?

  Wait, what did you, did you take Oliver out? What are you taking? You're taking Oliver.

• 43:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Man, I was raised by Oliver. That's tough.

• 43:58Sean Fennessey?

  That's Oliver's bad. Come on. I'm like the number one Carol Reed fan in the universe. That's not a good movie. I don't think.

• 44:03Amanda Dobbins?

  That's a great movie.

• 44:04Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, okay. So now it's Amanda's turn.

• 44:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, okay. Uh, we already talked about it. Um, I, I just gotta go to 92 and in Best Actor in Winter Snubs, I, I do need to take Denzel Washington for Malcolm X, which I think is one of the other great, uh, insanities. And if, if I'm doing my list of the greatest screen performances ever, it's probably, it's Pacino not in A Scent of a Woman, which he wins for that year, but in Godfather 2. And then this, this movie was incredible. I don't even think I need to take away the Training Day Oscar. I mean, Denzel can have as many as he wants.

• 44:40Sean Fennessey?

  He wouldn't have won it, though. I don't think.

• 44:42Amanda Dobbins?

  But, yeah, that's fine. Like, you can do whatever you want. This, this is a very pure, like, this is an amazing film and an incredible performance. And like, do, not the announcement, because he's obviously already won an Oscar, but like, you watch Denzel in Malcolm X and you're like, that's one of our all-timers. Like, this is, this is a forever actor. And you just want an Oscar to go for that announcement. So, I, you know, like, take it from Pacino. Like, if, if, if we've already done Katie's work and he already has an Oscar. Yeah, we fixed the 70s.

• 45:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, we're allowed to do that, Matt?

• 45:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, so then, then we can take it from Pacino. We're creating an alternate universe.

• 45:20Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's very similar to what you were describing about, um, An American in Paris, where it was like he had just won for glory. And even though it was a Titanic performance, Pacino had zero Oscars. And they just like, they were doing math on the table. They were like, so we're gonna let this go and not give whatever 55 year old Al Pacino an Academy Award and give 32 year old Denzel Washington the second Academy Award. It does happen sometimes.

• 45:45Speaker 05

  It could happen this year, right? I mean, the reverse of it could happen this year if they give it to Shalhoub.

• 45:49Sean Fennessey?

  If they give it to Shalhoub, it would be like giving Denzel the Oscar that he deserved. But those are, those are two pretty critical.

• 45:57Speaker 05

  Can I, can I ask you a general question? Is, did you find yourself with the actor snubs picking more often? Cause we were allowed to pick nominated performances or even un-nominated performances. Would you say you were largely drawing from nominated or un-nominated?

• 46:11Amanda Dobbins?

  I have one un-nominated here. And the rest are just miscarriages of justice for my favorite actors. It's hard to remember un-nominated. Like that, that research is tricky to go back and remember who was in the mix. I had one actor when I was really passionate about and maybe should have picked, but I'll get to that at the end.

• 46:29Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, Joanna.

• 46:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, great stuff for me.

• 46:34Amanda Dobbins?

  You get two.

• 46:35Amanda Dobbins?

  I do get two.

• 46:39Amanda Dobbins?

  So I would like, I don't know if you've ever heard of this director, but his name is Alfred Hitchcock, I think that's how you pronounce it.

• 46:50Amanda Dobbins?

  He doesn't have an Oscar for directing.

• 46:53Sean Fennessey?

  He doesn't.

• 46:54Amanda Dobbins?

  And I would like to give him one and I'm gonna do it for what does the most damage?

• 47:03Sean Fennessey?

  That can't be how you think about it.

• 47:07Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm kidding.

• 47:08Sean Fennessey?

  You can't just like give it to Lifeboat.

• 47:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Why not? I can pick Rear Window, I could pick Rebecca, I could pick Spellbound, or I could pick Psycho.

• 47:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Or you could pick something he wasn't nominated for, right?

• 47:18Amanda Dobbins?

  I could, but I, those were the ones that I wrote down. Um, so.

• 47:22Sean Fennessey?

  Not Vertigo.

• 47:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Not, not for me, but.

• 47:26Sean Fennessey?

  Too woke?

• 47:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Too San Francisco?

• 47:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Really bad portrayal of San Francisco.

• 47:33Sean Fennessey?

  Or is it?

• 47:35Amanda Dobbins?

  1958, there's another director that I was thinking of putting in 1958. But I don't have to. So I am going to do, this is tough for me. Do you guys want a vamp?

• 47:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Now I'm looking at 1958, trying to guess who you're talking about. You've listed one that I don't even.

• 47:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, there's, there's one more that you haven't even listed, though I don't actually.

• 47:55Speaker 05

  Oh, interesting. I don't even.

• 47:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 05

  I don't know.

• 47:58Sean Fennessey?

  I think his two greatest achievements are Rebecca and North by Northwest. They're not my favorite films of his, but in terms of what he is going for in those movies, I think he absolutely nails.

• 48:08Amanda Dobbins?

  And that, you know, I'm not trying to be swayed by you, but 1940 does do the most damage. It does.

• 48:14Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good one.

• 48:14Amanda Dobbins?

  So I'm gonna take 1940 off the board.

• 48:16Amanda Dobbins?

  And Rebecca wins Best Picture, so it kind of makes sense for them to match.

• 48:19Sean Fennessey?

  I agree. So what, who won director that year, actually? The 13th Academy Award.

• 48:23Amanda Dobbins?

  John Ford for The Grapes of Wrath.

• 48:24Speaker 05

  Not bad.

• 48:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, listen, it is. He's made some movies, right? I'm part of him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I feel okay with it.

• 48:30Speaker 05

  So you're saying Hitchcock, Rebecca, over John Ford, Grapes of Wrath?

• 48:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 48:34Speaker 05

  Wow, okay.

• 48:34Amanda Dobbins?

  There are other John Ford movies I would have a harder time making a case against, but. Okay.

• 48:38Speaker 05

  Me too.

• 48:38Amanda Dobbins?

  You know.

• 48:39Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting pick. I like that.

• 48:40Amanda Dobbins?

  That's tough. I'm deleting His Girl Friday. Yeah. Yeah, it's okay.

• 48:44Speaker 05

  Greg Tolan lost his mind on Grapes of Wrath. Or is it Greg Tolan did Grapes of Wrath?

• 48:48Sean Fennessey?

  He did, he did, um, he did, what did I just watch that came out that same year?

• 48:53Amanda Dobbins?

  It was Greg Tolan.

• 48:53Sean Fennessey?

  Greg Tolan did, I think, three movies in 1940?

• 48:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:58Sean Fennessey?

  Shoot, I'm gonna look at, please vamp, while I look this up.

• 49:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Hang on, I'm on his Wikipedia page. I mean, 1940 was fairly stacked.

• 49:06Sean Fennessey?

  It was a good year.

• 49:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 49:07Sean Fennessey?

  It's a great year.

• 49:08Amanda Dobbins?

  And it's still also when there are 10 nominees, right? Yeah. When do they switch from 10 to 5 the first time?

• 49:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, God, so many Wikipedia tabs are open.

• 49:16Amanda Dobbins?

  I know.

• 49:18Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, you know what it was? I actually just, I watched his, I watched the 1939 Wuthering Heights. Let's just, let's just talk Greg Tolan one second.

• 49:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 49:25Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 49:25Sean Fennessey?

  The cinematographer.

• 49:26Amanda Dobbins?

  I actually love that Wuthering Heights.

• 49:28Sean Fennessey?

  It's very good.

• 49:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Even though it only adapts half the book.

• 49:30Sean Fennessey?

  Well, just like Emmerich Fennel.

• 49:34Speaker 05

  What happens in the other half?

• 49:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Torture, animal torture.

• 49:37Sean Fennessey?

  It's a lot more, it's more intense stuff that shifts away from Kathy and Heathcliff.

• 49:43Sean Fennessey?

  So Greg Tolan, from 1939 to 1941, goes Intermezzo, Wuthering Heights, Raffles, They Shall Have Music, The Grapes of Wrath, The Long Voyage Home, The Westerner, The Outlaw, Citizen Kane, The Little Foxes, Ball of Fire. That's 11 movies in three years, four of which were Best Picture nominees and among the most important movies of all time. Just putting that out there. Guy was good.

• 50:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Including The Little Foxes. Just kidding. But I love that movie.

• 50:06Sean Fennessey?

  That's not a bad movie.

• 50:06Amanda Dobbins?

  It's a great movie. He got Oscars. Well, it's a play, but it's a great movie.

• 50:09Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so you have one more pick.

• 50:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 50:13Sean Fennessey?

  Damn Hitchcock, zagged.

• 50:16Amanda Dobbins?

  You're telling one for Wuthering Heights.

• 50:17Speaker 05

  So now Hitchcock entirely is off the board.

• 50:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Hitchcock's done.

• 50:20Sean Fennessey?

  If you haven't seen that Wuthering Heights, I recommend it.

• 50:21Speaker 05

  As a director and then also all his films are off the board.

• 50:24Amanda Dobbins?

  We're all over on it.

• 50:24Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I think you could still pick like North by Northwest to win this for sure.

• 50:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 50:28Sean Fennessey?

  Correct. The movies are available, but he is not available.

• 50:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I have the opportunity to do the most ringer thing possible, but I don't really want to do that because it's not the... Okay, so here's... I actually have a qualifying question.

• 50:39Sean Fennessey?

  You also have a black screen background.

• 50:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm, for my eyes.

• 50:43Amanda Dobbins?

  We work corrective lenses.

• 50:44Speaker 05

  I know.

• 50:45Sean Fennessey?

  Good for you guys.

• 50:46Amanda Dobbins?

  We're doing our best out here.

• 50:50Amanda Dobbins?

  The year 2000.

• 50:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Can I pick?

• 50:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, exactly. Can I pick In the Mood for Love?

• 50:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, you should.

• 50:59Amanda Dobbins?

  There was some question about eligibility that year.

• 51:03Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know, and I think we should look that up.

• 51:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, that was my one question mark.

• 51:07Amanda Dobbins?

  I have always thought of it as a 2000 movie. Is there a...

• 51:09Amanda Dobbins?

  We ran into this on the 2000 movie draft.

• 51:11Sean Fennessey?

  It was released in the United States in 2001, and that's historically what we use for drafts.

• 51:16Amanda Dobbins?

  I see.

• 51:16Sean Fennessey?

  We typically go by the US release date. Now, did it play?

• 51:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Let's see.

• 51:21Sean Fennessey?

  It played Cannes 2000, which I think would have made it eligible for the Academy Awards in 2000.

• 51:26Amanda Dobbins?

  If it had been submitted in international feature.

• 51:28Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 51:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 51:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Was it submitted, or was it?

• 51:30Amanda Dobbins?

  It was not chosen.

• 51:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Got it.

• 51:33Amanda Dobbins?

  It was submitted, but not nominated. Sorry, I should say.

• 51:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh.

• 51:35Sean Fennessey?

  So in that case, I say yes. I say it's the 2000 film.

• 51:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, it would have been like a City of God situation, which got submitted international and then gets nominated like the next year.

• 51:43Sean Fennessey?

  Did it get submitted in the original year of its release?

• 51:45Amanda Dobbins?

  I think so. I know there's something wonky going on with that one.

• 51:48Sean Fennessey?

  We're in dorktown now. This is really a...

• 51:49Amanda Dobbins?

  But also 2001 is still on the board.

• 51:52Amanda Dobbins?

  I think this is flexing it a little bit, but I don't, I don't mind.

• 51:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Can I take 2000 off the board?

• 51:56Amanda Dobbins?

  We're massaging it slightly, but if we want to have the spirit of generosity.

• 52:00Sean Fennessey?

  2000, alright.

• 52:01Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm taking In the Mood for Love for Best Picture nomination, snub 21st century. We said 2000 was 21st century.

• 52:09Sean Fennessey?

  We did.

• 52:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Last night when I texted you.

• 52:10Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, yes. We agreed to. Does everyone agree to that?

• 52:13Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 52:14Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Intriguing. Dude, you're zagging all over the place.

• 52:19Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm trying to... A spread.

• 52:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I appreciate it. It's nice. No chalk for you. Um, alright Amanda, you've got another pick.

• 52:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I do, and I'm trying to figure out...

• 52:30Sean Fennessey?

  This is, this is game theory here, guys. This is it. This is what it's all about, you know?

• 52:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Are you, is this revenge for the fantasy football draft that you absolutely lost your marbles over?

• 52:41Speaker 05

  Do you think you'll ever be able to draft again in a draft where you are not the commish?

• 52:45Amanda Dobbins?

  It's, it's, you can do that.

• 52:47Sean Fennessey?

  I did do that, and I happily, and I enjoyed it and won again, of course.

• 52:50Speaker 05

  Slightly more impressionistic, though, yeah.

• 52:53Amanda Dobbins?

  I think I'm Mallory.

• 52:54Sean Fennessey?

  I, the problem with that draft was that the, the rules were not just poor, but poorly communicated. That's not something I'm interested in. What I want is I want it all on the table. I want us all to be able to communicate, look each other in the eye and say, I agree.

• 53:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:07Sean Fennessey?

  You know? And that didn't happen last time. You were there. No, you weren't there.

• 53:10Speaker 05

  I wasn't there, but I almost won.

• 53:11Sean Fennessey?

  I was the only one on this table who was, you did almost win.

• 53:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Almost, I know.

• 53:14Amanda Dobbins?

  So can you, hold on. You, he did Goodfellas.

• 53:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 53:19Amanda Dobbins?

  In, in Picture Winner Snub.

• 53:21Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 53:22Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 53:23Amanda Dobbins?

  But, ah, but did Scorsese get an Oscar for the, was he, he wasn't? So he's still available.

• 53:31Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 53:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 53:31Amanda Dobbins?

  In Director Winner Snub.

• 53:33Speaker 05

  Right.

• 53:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 53:34Speaker 05

  But not for Goodfellas.

• 53:35Amanda Dobbins?

  But not for Goodfellas.

• 53:36Speaker 05

  Correct.

• 53:36Amanda Dobbins?

  This is like Hitchcock. You gotta choose your Scorsese snub.

• 53:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but not for Goodfellas. But then he like did get one, so I'm kind of like, do I wanna? Yeah, I think.

• 53:50Amanda Dobbins?

  But you wanna get him one earlier, so it doesn't have to be The Departed.

• 53:53Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I, that's true, but like, I don't, I don't know if I feel that strongly about it.

• 53:59Sean Fennessey?

  That's why I got really into the what ifs, because I'm like, if you're gonna take it away from somebody who eventually gets one, there's gotta be at least a domino effect that is appealing.

• 54:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. And I don't really, I don't have that. So instead, I, hold on, I'm, I think I'm gonna, just, I'm gonna do my passions. This is what I'm gonna do. And I think in 2014, uh, in Best Director, I will take Wes Anderson for Grand Budapest Hotel.

• 54:22Speaker 05

  Nice.

• 54:23Sean Fennessey?

  Good one.

• 54:23Speaker 05

  Fuck.

• 54:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Sorry, sorry to refine.

• 54:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Sorry, I kinda knew.

• 54:27Amanda Dobbins?

  That's my refine.

• 54:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, sorry. Well, I had refines in a bigger splash, but you know, someone went crazy.

• 54:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Also, also my Jake Gyllenhaal night caller justice.

• 54:36Amanda Dobbins?

  So, um, I mean, Wes Anderson has a, a short film Oscar now?

• 54:42Amanda Dobbins?

  He does.

• 54:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, okay, whatever. Uh, he's one of.

• 54:46Speaker 05

  Wait, oh yeah, that's right. And Fox wasn't animated. That wasn't like.

• 54:49Amanda Dobbins?

  He didn't win.

• 54:50Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 54:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, uh, it's, that, that's a great. Film, we even watched that in my house, but um, one of our signature, this signature filmmakers of our generation doesn't have an Oscar. Yet. Yet, well. But I also don't think he's making his best stuff right now.

• 55:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, he has a short.

• 55:05Sean Fennessey?

  I think the interest is kind of waning in his stuff a little bit too.

• 55:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, which is sad, even though I think Asteroid City is just like gobsmacking. Um, but I think, you know, Grand Budapest was, is one of my favorites of his films, was like a huge box office success and.

• 55:20Sean Fennessey?

  It was the coronation moment that kind of just passed by him.

• 55:22Amanda Dobbins?

  We, and we thought it was going to lead to more, and instead of that was it. Yeah, right. And then, so this year was the Oscars of, yeah, I'm also taking it away from Inari Tu for Birdman, so that's fine with me.

• 55:33Amanda Dobbins?

  He wins another one literally the next year.

• 55:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, the thing, I had Leo winning for Wolf of Wall Street here, and then that sets off another little chain reaction where Damon can then win for the Martian.

• 55:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Wolf of Wall Street's 13, sure.

• 55:43Sean Fennessey?

  Was it Wolf?

• 55:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Wolf of Wall Street's 2013, that's still on the board.

• 55:46Sean Fennessey?

  Is it 13?

• 55:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:47Sean Fennessey?

  I take it back. I take it back.

• 55:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Holds your fire.

• 55:49Sean Fennessey?

  I take it back. Um, okay. So, Chris, you're up.

• 55:54Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 55:57Speaker 05

  Um.

• 55:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Follow the question about Wild Card, but the year off the board still counts for Wild Card, right?

• 56:02Sean Fennessey?

  It does, yes.

• 56:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm sorry, Jake Gyllenhaal, I really did try to give you your Oscar.

• 56:04Sean Fennessey?

  All the same rules apply.

• 56:10Speaker 05

  So let's just make sure I know what I got here so far. I have 2001 in Best Picture Snub, 20th. I do not have a 21st. I have Best Picture winner, I took Goodfellas.

• 56:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Pretty good.

• 56:23Speaker 05

  Alright.

• 56:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, good work on.

• 56:25Speaker 05

  God darn it. I think what I'm gonna do is.

• 56:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 56:34Speaker 05

  Actress.

• 56:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Believe in yourself. Uh-oh, I'm nervous.

• 56:35Speaker 05

  Actress, good. Winner Snub.

• 56:37Amanda Dobbins?

  We haven't done one yet, right? Oh, no.

• 56:38Sean Fennessey?

  This will be the first time you talk about a woman on this pod. This is super exciting.

• 56:40Speaker 05

  1950, I'll take Betty Davis for All About Eve.

• 56:44Sean Fennessey?

  Wow, I love it.

• 56:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. One of the all-time tough best actor calls.

• 56:47Speaker 05

  And it was, it's Judy Holiday, one for Born Yesterday.

• 56:51Amanda Dobbins?

  She's great.

• 56:52Sean Fennessey?

  Good win.

• 56:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, she's great.

• 56:53Speaker 05

  Boris Swanson, right there for Sunset Boulevard.

• 56:56Sean Fennessey?

  Tough one, tough one.

• 56:57Speaker 05

  I just. Betty Davis in All About Eve is one of my five favorite performances ever.

• 57:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I love knowing that.

• 57:04Amanda Dobbins?

  It is also.

• 57:05Speaker 05

  Let's put it in bill terms. Top nine performances from the 50s.

• 57:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Very CR-coded.

• 57:12Speaker 05

  So yeah, I'll do that. I don't, I did not, I admit, I did not do Betty Davis Oscar research, so I don't know if this changes the trajectory of her awards cabinet or mantelpiece.

• 57:22Amanda Dobbins?

  That would have been, she had already won Oscars.

• 57:23Sean Fennessey?

  She had already won twice, I think, by this point.

• 57:25Speaker 05

  You know what? Three's a charm.

• 57:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, she deserves it.

• 57:29Speaker 05

  So that's, I'll do Betty Davis.

• 57:30Sean Fennessey?

  I think it would have been reasonable for her to be in the class of like Katharine Hepburn and Frances McDormand, the three-time winners. So that's an interesting pick, Chris.

• 57:39Speaker 05

  Thanks, Sean.

• 57:40Sean Fennessey?

  Nice, nice stuff.

• 57:40Amanda Dobbins?

  I had Gloria Swanson on mine, but you know, it's, it's a tough call.

• 57:44Sean Fennessey?

  She was nominated two, four, six, eight, 10, 11 times. Every time in Best Actress, never in Supporting. That's how you do it.

• 57:54Amanda Dobbins?

  That was a tough, in, because in Best Actor and Best Actress, we're talking lead performance, right? We're not doing Supporting.

• 58:01Sean Fennessey?

  Wild card. Supporting can go into Wild Card.

• 58:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, because there were just like a few.

• 58:04Speaker 05

  I had one in Actor that I'm like, I'm not sure.

• 58:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, there's just like a few actors who don't have Oscars where they're, they're all Supporting guys and gals, and it was tough. Uh, sorry, what year was that?

• 58:16Speaker 05

  1950.

• 58:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Thank you.

• 58:17Sean Fennessey?

  I'm loving this. We're going all the way back.

• 58:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 58:19Sean Fennessey?

  This is really good. I, I am gonna go back to the 21st century, though, and I'm gonna get into Best Picture nominee snub 21st century. And I've got a lot of options here.

• 58:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah? Are you gonna go, are you gonna go?

• 58:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Challengers!

• 58:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Are you gonna go for the crowd? Are you gonna go with your heart? Are you gonna be interesting? Are you gonna be normie?

• 58:44Speaker 05

  Just pick John with Ford.

• 58:46Sean Fennessey?

  I went supernormie with Throwback over Crash, right?

• 58:49Amanda Dobbins?

  You did.

• 58:49Sean Fennessey?

  That was like, that was the story.

• 58:50Amanda Dobbins?

  It had to be done.

• 58:51Sean Fennessey?

  And there are a few more supernormie, I think, snubs. I'm not doing that. I'm going 2012, which is one of the worst collections of Oscar nominees ever in this category, in my opinion. And I'm going, put the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo in.

• 59:03Speaker 05

  Whoa.

• 59:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 59:04Sean Fennessey?

  You can take out any one of the following. The artist extremely loud and incredibly close.

• 59:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, that's 11. Hang on, you're on 2011.

• 59:11Sean Fennessey?

  Sorry, 11.

• 59:12Amanda Dobbins?

  You're 2011?

• 59:13Sean Fennessey?

  Sorry, 2011.

• 59:15Amanda Dobbins?

  I had an even better option for 2011 here.

• 59:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Was it Michael Fassbender in Shame?

• 59:20Amanda Dobbins?

  No, it was obviously Melancholia, but whatever.

• 59:23Amanda Dobbins?

  I love 2012. I was so mad at you. No, 2011 sucks. You're right.

• 59:28Sean Fennessey?

  This is the whole slate of that year. The Artist, which won, The Descendants, Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close, The Help, Hugo, Midnight in Paris, Moneyball, The Tree of Life, and War Horse.

• 59:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, really bad.

• 59:38Sean Fennessey?

  It was really tough. Maybe three and a half good nominees there. I mean, that's crazy.

• 59:42Speaker 05

  Tree of Life, Moneyball, and War Horse.

• 59:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I like Hugo.

• 59:45Speaker 05

  Banger.

• 59:45Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 59:46Amanda Dobbins?

  War Horse is such a CR.

• 59:47Amanda Dobbins?

  We gotta call my dad. My dad has been angry about War Horse for a decade.

• 59:54Sean Fennessey?

  The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, More and More, We're Learning Every Day, Masterpiece. We're seeing increasingly.

• 1:00:00Speaker 05

  We're getting closer to Stanley and closer to Fincher. And that's what we have to acknowledge.

• 1:00:04Sean Fennessey?

  Also a film that I think really saw the future in terms of, you know, how people are treated and how the internet is used. Honestly, quite insightful.

• 1:00:12Speaker 05

  I was telling Sean, did you guys know Eyes Wide Shut's in the top 30 of Apple movies right now?

• 1:00:16Sean Fennessey?

  Cool.

• 1:00:16Speaker 05

  Wonder why?

• 1:00:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:19Sean Fennessey?

  I shared this with Chris and Bill, and I'm just gonna share it on the show because Chris sent that to us last night at.

• 1:00:25Speaker 05

  And I did Brian Windhorst's fingers.

• 1:00:26Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, at 8:49 PM. So at 8:04 AM, I received a text message from my 20-year-old nephew who said, "Hey, Uncle Sean, it's Gavin. I just watched Eyes Wide Shut, and I was wondering what your opinion on the movie was." And I was a little confused on the main message as well.

• 1:00:44Sean Fennessey?

  That's so sweet. First of all, Gavin, my dude, I love Gavin. I told Gavin, I was like, "Look, buddy, I'll just call you this weekend. We'll talk about it. We're not gonna text about this."

• 1:00:51Speaker 05

  Send him room set, two set. What are like some of the Eyes Wide Shut docs we could find on YouTube?

• 1:00:56Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah. There's plenty out there.

• 1:00:57Amanda Dobbins?

  How many podcast hours has he got?

• 1:01:00Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so that's my pick, which means Katie, you've got two picks.

• 1:01:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, so I had a picture nom with you the right thing, but I haven't done a win yet because that's a separate thing. And I do feel a little crazy that we have not yet talked about what I think is one of the all-time famous, it didn't even win, Best Picture movie. I'm going with 1941 and Citizen Kane.

• 1:01:18Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:01:19Amanda Dobbins?

  You've heard of that one?

• 1:01:20Sean Fennessey?

  That was.

• 1:01:20Speaker 05

  Yes. I screwed up.

• 1:01:22Sean Fennessey?

  No, I'm now deleting.

• 1:01:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Lady Eve, so that's sad.

• 1:01:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I also had Lady Eve.

• 1:01:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, not even nominated. What are we doing?

• 1:01:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Barbara Stanwyck. Uh, yeah, if I had, if I couldn't get Hitchcock, I was gonna go for Wells.

• 1:01:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I also had Wells in Actor if I hadn't gone that way because he loses to Gary Cooper, who then wins later and then you could fix some history there, but it's not the acting. Like Citizen Kane is Orson Welles in his vision and The Wunderkind and Greg Toland, our man, back again, didn't even win for it.

• 1:01:47Sean Fennessey?

  Crazy.

• 1:01:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Crazy. Uh, and it was nominated in Lost, How Green Was My Valley, which is a movie I haven't seen.

• 1:01:52Amanda Dobbins?

  It's a good, it's, it's very sweet.

• 1:01:54Amanda Dobbins?

  This is what I always hear, like.

• 1:01:56Sean Fennessey?

  It's very earnest.

• 1:01:57Amanda Dobbins?

  And a lot of times you'll go back and watch those movies from the 40s and you're like, oh, I thought this was gonna be boring and it's great. I'm sure it's right there, but I think we can all agree that putting Citizen Kane in there is the right thing that should have happened.

• 1:02:06Amanda Dobbins?

  I really agree.

• 1:02:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna, so we got the 40, we got 41, and now I'm gonna zag way back up and go into Best Actress in 2004, and I think that if we had just given Kate Winslet her Oscar for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind instead of Hillary Swins. Isn't that 2003? Do I have 2000, oh, I have it wrong?

• 1:02:26Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 1:02:26Sean Fennessey?

  He did it again.

• 1:02:27Amanda Dobbins?

  I know.

• 1:02:27Sean Fennessey?

  Same thing.

• 1:02:29Amanda Dobbins?

  You're twinning.

• 1:02:30Amanda Dobbins?

  I have a four.

• 1:02:31Sean Fennessey?

  A four, yeah.

• 1:02:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Eternal, oh, it is? Yeah, okay. No, I think you got in my head about the history fixing thing, so, I mean, I think.

• 1:02:36Sean Fennessey?

  I have this exact, I'm curious where, how far you take this one.

• 1:02:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I didn't, probably not as far as you, but even without even doing that, give Kate Winslet.

• 1:02:43Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm obsessive where this ends.

• 1:02:45Amanda Dobbins?

  I cannot wait to hear where this goes, but like, even if you're not fixing history, that is a great performance, that is a movie that is incredibly meaningful to me and probably everyone within 10 years of my age range, and she was someone, okay.

• 1:02:57Sean Fennessey?

  It's her worst take, her absolute worst take.

• 1:02:59Amanda Dobbins?

  And Kirsten Dunst is in it, so you have to know I really mean it. Okay, anyway.

• 1:03:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, we'll work it out after.

• 1:03:06Amanda Dobbins?

  This also means that I can't do my cute Best Picture nominee snub, which was Mean Girls in 2004, which should have been nominated, the Academy doesn't recognize comedy.

• 1:03:14Sean Fennessey?

  Never would have happened.

• 1:03:14Amanda Dobbins?

  2004, another year. That doesn't matter, it's not the exercise of the game.

• 1:03:18Sean Fennessey?

  We talked about the spirit of like, what could have happened.

• 1:03:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, maybe we should, in addition to, you know, adjudicate.

• 1:03:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Wins, it should be that the Oscar, you know, Oscars recognize comedy as well.

• 1:03:28Sean Fennessey?

  Well, that can be your draft that you do on your pod.

• 1:03:30Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, some comedies should make their way into this.

• 1:03:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Fine, I'm sorry that you.

• 1:03:33Amanda Dobbins?

  This is not for podcast.

• 1:03:37Amanda Dobbins?

  There is some comedy in Eternal Sunshine. There's funniness in there, including Kate Winslet. I just, it's one of her great performances. She had already given so many at this point. She was kind of obviously overdue. She then, of course, wins a couple of years later for The Reader, a movie we all love and revere and watch constantly. So if you give it to her that year, Hilary Swank doesn't get her second Oscar for Million Dollar Baby. I think we can all live with it. The way I went with it is then, and I don't know that this really would have happened, is that then Anne Hathaway can win for Rachel Getting Married in '08. And then after that, she doesn't have to win Supporting Actress in 2012, and Amy Adams can win for The Master.

• 1:04:07Sean Fennessey?

  So that.

• 1:04:08Amanda Dobbins?

  And what's next after that?

• 1:04:09Sean Fennessey?

  That is a great outcome. I had a slightly different trajectory. So for, to me, I agree. I think Kate Winslet should have won that year. I love that movie. That clears the way for Meryl's third Oscar for Doubt, which I think is a better performance than The Iron Lady and a better movie than The Iron Lady, which means that clears the way for Glenn Close to finally be free and to have an Oscar for Albert Nobbs.

• 1:04:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Albert Nobbs is written on this document.

• 1:04:32Speaker 05

  You want Albert Nobbs to win for Albert Nobbs?

• 1:04:34Sean Fennessey?

  I just want Glenn Close to be happy. I just want her to be okay.

• 1:04:38Amanda Dobbins?

  She's waiting for Nobbs, is what he says.

• 1:04:40Speaker 05

  She's in Murrayland now. She's doing great.

• 1:04:42Amanda Dobbins?

  And meanwhile.

• 1:04:44Sean Fennessey?

  I think she is a pain by the fact that she does not have an Oscar.

• 1:04:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Not even a nomination.

• 1:04:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Albert Nobbs is also a comedy in its own right, though, so, you know. I mean, I feel like it wasn't terrible. I don't remember that much about Albert Nobbs.

• 1:04:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Great, I would say.

• 1:04:57Sean Fennessey?

  Katie, we're vibing. That's two acting picks that have the same idea.

• 1:05:00Amanda Dobbins?

  You're really speaking my language.

• 1:05:02Sean Fennessey?

  That's really funny. Um, okay, now we're back to, are we back to me?

• 1:05:07Speaker 05

  Uh, we're back to you.

• 1:05:08Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. Hmm. I kind of want to do another one of those.

• 1:05:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:05:14Sean Fennessey?

  A similarly minded one of those.

• 1:05:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Maybe you could have been preparing for that instead of, you know.

• 1:05:18Sean Fennessey?

  I am prepared.

• 1:05:18Amanda Dobbins?

  All right.

• 1:05:19Sean Fennessey?

  In fact, I'm ready to do it right now.

• 1:05:22Sean Fennessey?

  Is 1973 still on the board? I think it is, right?

• 1:05:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I think all of the 70s are on the board.

• 1:05:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, 74.

• 1:05:28Amanda Dobbins?

  74 is off, yeah.

• 1:05:30Sean Fennessey?

  This is a bit of a rewriting history pick.

• 1:05:34Sean Fennessey?

  Glenda Jackson won in 1973 for Best Actress for A Touch of Class. Show of hands, how many people here have seen A Touch of Class? Yeah, me and Joe.

• 1:05:42Sean Fennessey?

  This was her second win in four years. And Glenda Jackson is a rare Best Actress two-time winner, who I would say most people born after 1980 are not familiar with and couldn't pick out of a crowd. And she does not have the same legacy as so many of our great actors and actresses. So here's what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna take that second one away from Glenda, I'm gonna give it to Ellen Burstyn for The Exorcist, which is an incredible performance. Now Ellen Burstyn does win the following year for Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, also a very good performance.

• 1:06:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Amazing performance.

• 1:06:10Sean Fennessey?

  But then you get to do something similar to Katie did earlier, which is give the next Oscar to Faye Dunaway for Chinatown in 1974 as Evelyn Mulray, which then means Faye Dunaway doesn't have to win and we can have Sissy Spacek win for Carrie in 1976, which means Sissy Spacek doesn't have to win for Coal Miner's Daughter, which means we can give Mary Tyler Moore her Oscar for Ordinary People.

• 1:06:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I like it.

• 1:06:34Sean Fennessey?

  And then Mary Tyler Moore doesn't have to not have an Oscar.

• 1:06:36Speaker 05

  But let me ask you this.

• 1:06:37Amanda Dobbins?

  But Sissy Spacek should have an Oscar.

• 1:06:39Sean Fennessey?

  She has one for Carrie.

• 1:06:39Amanda Dobbins?

  She gets one for Carrie. Yeah, though I still like the Faye Dunaway network performance more than Chinatown.

• 1:06:44Speaker 05

  Oh, I like Chinatown more than network.

• 1:06:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:06:46Speaker 05

  But it's just, you know, different strokes.

• 1:06:48Amanda Dobbins?

  There you go.

• 1:06:49Speaker 05

  Uh, flaw in the iris, you know? How do you feel about the idea?

• 1:06:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Was that a Captain America Civil War reference?

• 1:06:55Speaker 05

  No, it's in Chinatown.

• 1:06:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, Chinatown.

• 1:06:57Speaker 05

  A flaw in the iris.

• 1:06:58Amanda Dobbins?

  That's so embarrassing for me.

• 1:07:01Speaker 05

  Well, how do you feel about the idea that like you win one, now you're off the board? Like, would you wanna live in a world?

• 1:07:06Amanda Dobbins?

  You really seem to be gatekeeping these.

• 1:07:07Sean Fennessey?

  It's really how it works. I mean, it's really how voters think.

• 1:07:10Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not how it works.

• 1:07:11Amanda Dobbins?

  You hand me.

• 1:07:12Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not how it works, but I think it should be how it works.

• 1:07:15Sean Fennessey?

  You think there should be a rule?

• 1:07:16Amanda Dobbins?

  I disagree. I'm giving, I'm gonna try to give more Oscars to the non-Ascara.

• 1:07:20Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I just think not in this draft.

• 1:07:23Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't care about term, you know, in this case.

• 1:07:25Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not in this, it's not in this draft.

• 1:07:27Amanda Dobbins?

  In this case only.

• 1:07:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Not in this draft, I just mean in life. I feel like there are too many actors who need an Oscar, who don't have an Oscar, and then I, I do like that Katherine Hepburn has a whole hat. But if she wanted to give a couple away to people who never got them, then I think that

• 1:07:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Redistribution of wealth is what you're advocating for?

• 1:07:44Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm a socialist.

• 1:07:45Sean Fennessey?

  I think, I think when there's, when there's a lot of bunched wins, most of the time, people are kind of punished. You know, I actually think we've been talking about the Leo and Timmy thing this year. And I think even still, there's a little bit of like, ah, he doesn't have to win quite yet again. And I think there, it doesn't always happen because the Glenda Jackson close wins did happen.

• 1:08:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Emma Stone's doing it right now.

• 1:08:03Sean Fennessey?

  Emma Stone.

• 1:08:04Speaker 05

  Because I would say with the exception of the Patriots, you admire dominance in sports.

• 1:08:09Sean Fennessey?

  That's true. I like a dynasty.

• 1:08:10Speaker 05

  And so it's like, taking, taking Daniel Day-Lewis off the board at my left foot.

• 1:08:16Amanda Dobbins?

  That's true. You're just gonna let Lincoln sit there and go unacknowledged?

• 1:08:19Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I'll tell you what.

• 1:08:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Your Lincoln thing?

• 1:08:22Sean Fennessey?

  I, I, I reserve the right to choose whatever I want. You know, and in some cases, I'm like, just give DDL every Oscar.

• 1:08:27Speaker 05

  I think the historical game of like, if they win, then this happens. Because I think that this is an interesting thing. I won't give away what I think might be my pick, but yeah.

• 1:08:36Sean Fennessey?

  I thought it would be interesting to take, um, Ordinary People, uh, bring it into the conversation a little bit too, because it's an interesting.

• 1:08:43Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:08:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Somebody may want to talk about it later on, but like, that, to me, that movie is very, very good. And I really like it. We did a rewatchables on it. I think it's very accomplished. I think Mary Tyler Moore is maybe the best thing in it.

• 1:08:55Amanda Dobbins?

  She is.

• 1:08:55Sean Fennessey?

  And I really, that's like, one of those wins that I always thought should have happened, even though Sissy Spacek is wonderful in Coal Miners' Order. Sometimes there's just two deserving winners. And somebody has to choose. And this would be a way to kind of alleviate that.

• 1:09:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Can we look at the supporting category in that year? Because couldn't you make the argument for Mary Tyler Moore in supporting?

• 1:09:12Sean Fennessey?

  You could.

• 1:09:12Amanda Dobbins?

  In, in Ordinary People? I mean, and it is like, it is one of those supporting performances that the entire movie hinges on.

• 1:09:17Sean Fennessey?

  I think Tim Hutton won for supporting that year, but he's really the lead in the movie.

• 1:09:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, now you're taking away Mary Steenburgen's Oscar from Melvin and Howard.

• 1:09:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I do like Mary Steenburgen, but.

• 1:09:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Melvin and Howard is one of those, like, doesn't exist. I mean, I've seen it, but like, a movie that doesn't feel like it exists.

• 1:09:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Anyway, that's how I personally would pick it, because I don't care about category fraud.

• 1:09:37Sean Fennessey?

  I own it, of course.

• 1:09:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I believe in the sanctity of American elections and not Oscar elections.

• 1:09:44Amanda Dobbins?

  I do think that's a clear, down to camera. I want to be clear about the stakes at play. I think it is okay to not care.

• 1:09:50Speaker 05

  You don't think we've had enough elections?

• 1:09:53Sean Fennessey?

  More, yeah. Speaking of, you have to elect your next pick.

• 1:09:58Speaker 05

  Well, okay, so I'm gonna pick a best actor winner snub, and I'm undecided at the moment while I vamp between. Going into an area that I've already drafted. You know what? I'm just gonna do, actually.

• 1:10:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Follow your heart.

• 1:10:10Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:10:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Follow your heart. Follow your heart.

• 1:10:13Speaker 05

  1998 still on the board?

• 1:10:15Amanda Dobbins?

  I think so.

• 1:10:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, it is.

• 1:10:18Speaker 05

  Jeff Bridges is the dude in Big Lebowski.

• 1:10:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, I like this.

• 1:10:21Sean Fennessey?

  Good, really good.

• 1:10:22Speaker 05

  Uh.

• 1:10:22Sean Fennessey?

  Really good pick.

• 1:10:23Speaker 05

  The Academy does not understand the Coens for the majority of their, their peak, their prime. They could finally get one for no country. But their inability to understand the Coens and their, like, rewarding Roberto Benigni for an irreverent comic performance, tragic comic performance, while, like, uh...

• 1:10:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. And Dumber and Dumber.

• 1:10:44Speaker 05

  Yeah. While Bridges just, like, languishes in being one of the most iconic characters in my lifetime, uh, with the dude is, is a travesty, is a, is a snub of all snubs.

• 1:10:55Sean Fennessey?

  I like that pick.

• 1:10:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Does he then not win for Crazy Heart?

• 1:10:58Speaker 05

  If we, if we exist in the one and done world, yes, and I'd be fine with that. I think Crazy Heart's a-

• 1:11:03Sean Fennessey?

  Do we feel Jeff Bridges rises to the level of deserves two? I would say maybe yes.

• 1:11:08Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know if the Crazy Heart gets its engine.

• 1:11:10Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 1:11:11Amanda Dobbins?

  I think, maybe Clooney wins that year? Which wouldn't have been-

• 1:11:15Speaker 05

  That was Sirianni?

• 1:11:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, up in the air.

• 1:11:16Speaker 05

  Up in the air.

• 1:11:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's interesting. You're probably right.

• 1:11:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:19Speaker 05

  Had Clooney already won for Sirianni by that point?

• 1:11:21Amanda Dobbins?

  He won Supporting Actor for Sirianni, right? Yeah.

• 1:11:24Speaker 05

  Before, up there?

• 1:11:25Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah. That's like, oh, five, oh, four?

• 1:11:27Speaker 05

  Do you, are you, in your new history, where people come off the board after winning once, can they win for a different category?

• 1:11:34Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I mean, I wanna control space and time, obviously, so this is a new history that we are writing here. Call me Howard Zinn.

• 1:11:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:11:40Sean Fennessey?

  I, um, I, so I had this as well, but I just had, let's just let Tom Hanks have three. So that kinda goes to your dynasty point. Cause then it could have been Tom, Tom Hanks in Saving Private Ryan that year.

• 1:11:50Speaker 05

  And that would've been-

• 1:11:50Sean Fennessey?

  Which is just like, that Benigni one sucks. It's so terrible. It's the beginning of the awfulness of the Weinstein narrative.

• 1:11:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:11:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Also, RIP to Jim Carrey in Truman Show, who I had on my 98.

• 1:11:58Sean Fennessey?

  That would've been a good one, too. That would've been a really good one.

• 1:12:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:01Sean Fennessey?

  Um, okay.

• 1:12:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Is it me?

• 1:12:05Sean Fennessey?

  It's you.

• 1:12:06Amanda Dobbins?

  It's my turn? Okay, great. I'm gonna do the obvious thing, because it's still here. And this is, this is me fixing my, this is me fixing history the way that I want to. In 2008, in Best Picture nominee snub, I will take The Dark Knight. And then, and then we just fix it, okay? Like, and then I just don't have to hear about it anymore. Batman mommy rises. Please, please, stop believing that Interstellar is so good, okay? Like, please.

• 1:12:34Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think a Best Picture win would have alleviated that.

• 1:12:36Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, but like, maybe then I don't have to hear about the third act of Oppenheimer so much. Like, I just, we, like, stop the madness. Stop it.

• 1:12:44Amanda Dobbins?

  You think this is enough to stop Christopher Nolan?

• 1:12:46Speaker 05

  Are you now becoming old him?

• 1:12:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Um.

• 1:12:48Speaker 05

  Anthony Nolan?

• 1:12:49Amanda Dobbins?

  I like Inception.

• 1:12:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:12:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I love Tenet. Like, let's, it's cool. I like it.

• 1:12:54Amanda Dobbins?

  We love Tenet, we hate Interstellar.

• 1:12:55Amanda Dobbins?

  And I really thought that he was very charming at the DGAs when I went. Also, he walked out to Cashmere, which is very funny.

• 1:13:02Amanda Dobbins?

  And he said, oh, that was a little dramatic.

• 1:13:03Amanda Dobbins?

  He was a little confused by it. But I just, like, the, the, uh, the snub of The Dark Knight in 2008 created, like, mass hysteria among Nolan fans and among Oscar, like, voters and how we put the Oscars to them.

• 1:13:17Speaker 05

  Have you guys talked about whether you'd go back pre-Dark Knight 5? Just, there's, there's a smaller, smaller field for Best Picture?

• 1:13:23Sean Fennessey?

  Do I, like, right now, should we go back to 5? We have talked about it in the past on, like, there are some years where it feels more appropriate. I thought, I always thought the variable year was a little bit more fun, where you could have gotten 8 or 9, because that indicated, like, a real strength. That being said, I kinda, I also kinda like when a movie like F1 kinda sneaks in at the end, too.

• 1:13:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:41Sean Fennessey?

  So.

• 1:13:41Amanda Dobbins?

  We almost certainly would have had 9 this year if that had been an option.

• 1:13:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I'm happy that Top Gun Maverick got nominated. You know, like, I like that we make room for blockbusters. I just, it.

• 1:13:51Sean Fennessey?

  You're making room for one right here.

• 1:13:52Amanda Dobbins?

  It just comes with such psychosis that, like, if we could just.

• 1:13:55Speaker 05

  So you feel like if we go back and we give Dark Knight Best Director or Best Picture, you said?

• 1:14:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Best Picture nominee.

• 1:14:01Speaker 05

  Nominee.

• 1:14:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Just a nomination.

• 1:14:01Speaker 05

  Nomination.

• 1:14:02Sean Fennessey?

  Let me ask you a question related to this.

• 1:14:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:04Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think if this happens, that the, the way in which comic book films are made and the kinds of comic book movies we get are any different if Dark Knight is nominated for Best Picture?

• 1:14:15Amanda Dobbins?

  I do, not that it would have saved us from the sort of like explosion of comic book movies, but I think the sort of like, let's take this more seriously would have happened even earlier than it did. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:14:28Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's sort of what I'm thinking is like, do you get, you know, a Black Panther earlier?

• 1:14:33Amanda Dobbins?

  That's exactly what I was thinking.

• 1:14:35Sean Fennessey?

  You know?

• 1:14:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I think you do. But The Dark Knight made so much money, which is the real incentive for all this, right? It is, but it isn't because they also want, you know, Marvel at a certain point starts chasing, they want that shrine with Oscars. It takes them too long to chase Oscars and it wouldn't have as long.

• 1:14:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I just saw Kevin Feige last week talked about how happy he was that Sinners was being recognized so much. Obviously, he's got some skin in the game with having worked with Coogler for years, but also he was like, it doesn't always happen that the Academy recognizes what real moviegoers really enjoy. And I was like, all right, buddy, you know, et cetera. I'm sorry that, you know, Love and Thunder didn't get into Best Picture that year.

• 1:15:13Amanda Dobbins?

  And what else to say? The first hour and a half of The Dark Knight on like anything I've ever seen, absolutely rips. Incredible stuff.

• 1:15:22Speaker 05

  You didn't like it when it started focusing on Maggie Gyllenhaal?

• 1:15:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:25Sean Fennessey?

  What was Rachel?

• 1:15:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Rachel Daws. Rachel Daws, baby.

• 1:15:28Speaker 05

  She's the assistant, dear?

• 1:15:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Recast from Katie Holmes.

• 1:15:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, you were like, I miss Katie.

• 1:15:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:36Amanda Dobbins?

  You're like, where's Katie's whole range of emotion here?

• 1:15:38Sean Fennessey?

  If you could, if you could fuck Rachel Daws or fuck the Joker, who would you fuck? Because that's sort of what Batman has to do, right?

• 1:15:46Speaker 05

  Honestly, the Joker.

• 1:15:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:48Speaker 05

  Because the Joker, I would do it for the story.

• 1:15:51Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, this is he.

• 1:15:52Amanda Dobbins?

  But he's Joker. Not Joaquin's Joker, he's Joker.

• 1:15:54Amanda Dobbins?

  All right, Joaquin's Joker also on the table.

• 1:15:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Jared's Joker?

• 1:15:58Sean Fennessey?

  This is not Caesar's.

• 1:15:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, listen. There it is.

• 1:16:02Speaker 05

  That's just getting erased. We're not doing Joker in Matt Reeves' movies?

• 1:16:08Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know.

• 1:16:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Are we doing Matt Reeves' movies?

• 1:16:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, he called me. As soon as he finished the script, he was giving me updates.

• 1:16:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Barry Keoghan's in the Pattinson one, is that?

• 1:16:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:16:18Amanda Dobbins?

  That movie came out like eight years ago.

• 1:16:19Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:16:20Amanda Dobbins?

  And was amazing.

• 1:16:21Speaker 05

  And now he's Ringo, so he's like, I'm busy, lad.

• 1:16:23Sean Fennessey?

  Nice work. You have a bet.

• 1:16:26Speaker 05

  Fuck. Do I? I just picked, right?

• 1:16:29Amanda Dobbins?

  I thought it was.

• 1:16:30Sean Fennessey?

  I think we picked out of order.

• 1:16:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Joanna has two back to back right now. Thank you.

• 1:16:33Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, we're going back valley, my bad, my bad.

• 1:16:35Amanda Dobbins?

  All right, this is really tough.

• 1:16:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Sometimes you have to take an Oscar away from someone you do think deserves it. And I, and I just frantically skipped around trying to find another place to give it to him. But I can't. So I'm so sorry to late, great William Hurt, you no longer have an Oscar. And I am giving it to Harrison Ford and Witness.

• 1:16:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:16:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm, this was. 1985.

• 1:16:53Sean Fennessey?

  Was one of mine. Good one.

• 1:16:54Amanda Dobbins?

  And I was trying, like, any.

• 1:16:55Sean Fennessey?

  Kiss of the Spider Woman, is that what it's?

• 1:16:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Kiss of the Spider Woman, which is not what he, he should have won for, but I couldn't find a win. Like, you're taking one from John Connery or taking one, like, I could not. This is where it's gonna go in lock and cart. There are like so many corners where I was like, ah, that's Paul Newman's, ah, that's John Connery. So William Hurt, you get no Oscar, but Harrison Ford has one for Witness, which he deserves. He does.

• 1:17:11Sean Fennessey?

  I did take one of, I was, something I was leaning towards, which was Sidney Pollack winning for Out of Africa over Akira Kurosawa for Ron.

• 1:17:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:20Speaker 05

  There's a lot of other Kurosawa years that you do.

• 1:17:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, that's how you did it. Eighty, I mean, 85 was a.

• 1:17:26Sean Fennessey?

  Tough, tough year.

• 1:17:26Amanda Dobbins?

  A target rich year also in this.

• 1:17:28Sean Fennessey?

  That's the weirdest year ever, because Out of Africa dominates, but Meryl Streep doesn't win.

• 1:17:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Because she had just won two pretty close together.

• 1:17:36Sean Fennessey?

  Doesn't stop them before.

• 1:17:36Amanda Dobbins?

  That's true.

• 1:17:37Sean Fennessey?

  Um, okay.

• 1:17:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Another for Jo.

• 1:17:40Sean Fennessey?

  One more for Joanna.

• 1:17:42Amanda Dobbins?

  I knew I could wait, because this is a weirdly anti-Arrival podcast, but.

• 1:17:47Amanda Dobbins?

  No, it's not. Excuse me, you're not up to date. That's fine. You did not listen to all of the Big Picture episodes.

• 1:17:53Amanda Dobbins?

  I listened to a lot of them.

• 1:17:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Are you trying to silence a woman on this podcast?

• 1:17:58Sean Fennessey?

  This is very loud.

• 1:17:58Amanda Dobbins?

  You were here, when Rob and I were here, we were doing the whole Amy Adams monography, and Sean was just like, Arrival, what a piece of trash.

• 1:18:04Sean Fennessey?

  I did not say that. How dare you.

• 1:18:07Amanda Dobbins?

  It's beautiful.

• 1:18:08Sean Fennessey?

  I like it, it's good.

• 1:18:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Amy Adams deserves an Oscar, as we all, I think, at this table agree. But, uh, I also don't agree, but that's okay.

• 1:18:15Sean Fennessey?

  You went, you're going Amy Adams in Actress?

• 1:18:17Amanda Dobbins?

  But I really like Arrival. Would you give Jeremy Renner an Oscar for Arrival? Who would you have picked? I'd probably, uh, Villeneuve. Okay, okay, all right, fair enough.

• 1:18:24Sean Fennessey?

  So you're taking 16 off the board. Who won in 16?

• 1:18:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Emma Stone.

• 1:18:28Amanda Dobbins?

  And she gets one later.

• 1:18:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:31Amanda Dobbins?

  She doesn't get it for Lala Lynch.

• 1:18:32Sean Fennessey?

  Can't say I approve of that.

• 1:18:35Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm with you, Joanna. I really hoped you would pick this one. You're fixing the like sci fi of the mid 2010s with Mad Max and Arrival.

• 1:18:42Amanda Dobbins?

  You know what? Thank you so much.

• 1:18:45Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:18:45Amanda Dobbins?

  All right.

• 1:18:46Sean Fennessey?

  Amanda, we're back to you.

• 1:18:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, I have another. I'm gonna go old school. Best Picture nominee Snub, 1938, Bringing Up Baby.

• 1:18:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Hell yeah.

• 1:18:58Sean Fennessey?

  Hell yeah, girl.

• 1:18:58Amanda Dobbins?

  I like.

• 1:19:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Hell yeah, girl.

• 1:19:03Sean Fennessey?

  You go, girl.

• 1:19:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Bringing Up Baby is, what were you gonna ask?

• 1:19:10Speaker 05

  Uh, nothing. Go ahead.

• 1:19:12Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, it's, it kinda invents all of it. I mean, it is before Philadelphia Story. It's before His Girl Friday. It is like one of the signature screwball comedies of Hollywood, a perfect movie. And, you know, still referenced in great films like Jurassic Park, whatever the most recent one was called.

• 1:19:33Speaker 05

  Uh, Jurassic World Rebirth.

• 1:19:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Rebirth? Yeah, Jonathan Bailey doing his best, uh, American, you know, National History Museum.

• 1:19:40Sean Fennessey?

  Dog baby of a movie. Yeah. Sorry, bro.

• 1:19:43Amanda Dobbins?

  And dog baby of a movie.

• 1:19:46Speaker 05

  Why'd you say sorry, bro?

• 1:19:47Sean Fennessey?

  Because you loved it. It's one of your favorites.

• 1:19:48Speaker 05

  I thought it was fine.

• 1:19:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Do you think Johnny Bailey's glasses in that movie was a nod, a nod to Cary Grant and his glasses?

• 1:19:53Amanda Dobbins?

  I do. I think it was.

• 1:19:55Speaker 05

  For people who didn't see it, should we recap what happened in Jurassic World?

• 1:19:58Sean Fennessey?

  Should we re-rebirth?

• 1:20:00Speaker 05

  What happened in Rebirth?

• 1:20:01Amanda Dobbins?

  I've watched it in, over People's Children's Plane enough times and segments. I think I've got it. Like, I think I've figured out the plot without ever hearing it.

• 1:20:07Sean Fennessey?

  You don't need to hear anybody talking in it.

• 1:20:08Amanda Dobbins?

  I think I'm good, yeah.

• 1:20:09Sean Fennessey?

  Not a lot of good talking in the movie. Something you'd like to improve on in films going forward.

• 1:20:13Speaker 05

  Did David Koep write that?

• 1:20:14Sean Fennessey?

  He did, yeah.

• 1:20:15Amanda Dobbins?

  He did. That's why we're like, David Koep, it's, oh, it's a mixed bag.

• 1:20:18Sean Fennessey?

  You never know. Yeah, you really never know. Bringing Up Baby, zero Oscar nominations.

• 1:20:22Amanda Dobbins?

  It's crazy.

• 1:20:22Sean Fennessey?

  That's pretty wild.

• 1:20:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Cary Grant. No. They took it for granted. They didn't know how good they had it.

• 1:20:26Sean Fennessey?

  This is, this is a great quiz. I never would have been able to do well on this. How many Best Picture nominees from 1938 can you name? This table collectively.

• 1:20:34Amanda Dobbins?

  I just looked at it, so I will, yeah, excise myself from this.

• 1:20:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:38Amanda Dobbins?

  How many of them I, have I seen? Not that many. Because 39 is so iconic and 38 I got.

• 1:20:44Sean Fennessey?

  38, there are 10 nominees.

• 1:20:45Speaker 05

  Rattle them off so we can say where they're already seen it.

• 1:20:46Sean Fennessey?

  Well, you can't take it with you, won.

• 1:20:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, and I have seen that.

• 1:20:49Sean Fennessey?

  The capital win. The Adventures of Robin Hood, which is very good.

• 1:20:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Earl Flynn won, okay.

• 1:20:52Sean Fennessey?

  Earl Flynn.

• 1:20:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:53Sean Fennessey?

  Um, Alexander's Ragtime Band.

• 1:20:56Amanda Dobbins?

  I've seen it.

• 1:20:56Sean Fennessey?

  Haven't seen it. You've seen that. Nice. Boys Town, The Citadel, Four Daughters, Grand Illusion, of course, Renoir's masterpiece. Jezebel.

• 1:21:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Great.

• 1:21:05Sean Fennessey?

  Very good film. Pygmalion, pre My Fair Lady, uh, and Test Pilot, which I haven't seen.

• 1:21:11Speaker 05

  I've seen Test Pilot.

• 1:21:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, you were the star. Yeah, you wrote, directed and starred in Test Pilot. And then you turned it.

• 1:21:16Speaker 05

  I'm 106 years old.

• 1:21:18Amanda Dobbins?

  A P S for pilot.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  I want to clarify something real quick. Joe, for Amy Adams' Arrival 2016, did you put that in Best Actress winner snub?

• 1:21:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  Does it matter that she was not nominated for?

• 1:21:29Amanda Dobbins?

  No, we're allowed to.

• 1:21:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's okay.

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  Okay, got it. Just wanted to clarify.

• 1:21:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Thank you for clarifying.

• 1:21:35Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:21:38Sean Fennessey?

  Now we're up to Chris.

• 1:21:39Speaker 05

  Okay. Yeah?

• 1:21:40Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:21:41Speaker 05

  I'm gonna go in Best Director.

• 1:21:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Hmm, okay.

• 1:21:45Speaker 05

  I think I have this right and I'm gonna, I'm gonna play your little game, Sean. Because if we give Peter Jackson Best Director for The Two Towers, which is what he deserves it for.

• 1:21:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow, alright.

• 1:21:59Speaker 05

  We can then give Peter Weir the Master and Commander Oscar that he deserves.

• 1:22:03Amanda Dobbins?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:22:04Speaker 05

  Several years later.

• 1:22:05Amanda Dobbins?

  I love this for you.

• 1:22:06Speaker 05

  So for 02.

• 1:22:06Amanda Dobbins?

  There you go. This is my favorite thing that's ever happened.

• 1:22:08Speaker 05

  Honestly, I would have taken Clint Mystic River as the second choice in that category for, uh, for the one that Return of the King won. Return of the King ends 19 times, does not have Helm's Deep.

• 1:22:20Amanda Dobbins?

  That's a cumulative win. That's, thanks for the trilogy.

• 1:22:23Speaker 05

  And I'm like, I'm like, I'm out on that. You gotta be judged on its merits.

• 1:22:26Amanda Dobbins?

  So Denis should have won for Dune 2.

• 1:22:28Speaker 05

  Don't wait to give Denis the fucking Oscar for this one.

• 1:22:30Sean Fennessey?

  Right. So you said Return of the King is a 3 out of 10, but Two Towers is a 10 out of 10?

• 1:22:35Speaker 05

  No, not 3. It's like a s-

• 1:22:38Speaker 05

  I would say it's a seven.

• 1:22:39Amanda Dobbins?

  What happens in Two Towers?

• 1:22:40Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 1:22:40Speaker 05

  It's the worst one.

• 1:22:41Sean Fennessey?

  I think you're right.

• 1:22:42Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:22:42Sean Fennessey?

  I think it is the worst one. But if it ended just the first ending, I would feel differently.

• 1:22:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Dean Jordan?

• 1:22:49Sean Fennessey?

  Go on to go back to the Shire, I'm like, what the fuck?

• 1:22:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:22:52Speaker 05

  The tree people?

• 1:22:52Amanda Dobbins?

  The tree people?

• 1:22:53Speaker 05

  Fellowship's the best one.

• 1:22:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, I heard, I know about the tree people.

• 1:22:57Speaker 05

  Ents.

• 1:22:57Sean Fennessey?

  The Ents.

• 1:22:58Amanda Dobbins?

  The Ents.

• 1:22:58Sean Fennessey?

  Not the Addacts, the Ents.

• 1:23:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Guys, I feel, I feel really good about my influence on this podcast today.

• 1:23:04Speaker 05

  So, yeah.

• 1:23:04Sean Fennessey?

  We were like this before.

• 1:23:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:23:06Amanda Dobbins?

  So you're taking away Roman Polanski's Oscar?

• 1:23:08Sean Fennessey?

  We were definitely like, we were going Roman arms.

• 1:23:09Speaker 05

  I'll take away Roman Polanski's Oscar, obviously.

• 1:23:13Sean Fennessey?

  You want, you want to give him another one, you say?

• 1:23:17Speaker 05

  You want to give him one? We're gonna do a special Oscars called the Romans.

• 1:23:19Amanda Dobbins?

  You want to give him one this year?

• 1:23:20Speaker 05

  No, I'm saying he just, he loses his.

• 1:23:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Just that Ed Harris and Amy Madigan cannot clap for him?

• 1:23:26Speaker 05

  Wait, I thought they didn't clap for.

• 1:23:27Amanda Dobbins?

  They didn't clap for Elliot Zandt.

• 1:23:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I'm just saying like, again.

• 1:23:30Amanda Dobbins?

  They probably wouldn't clap for Roman Polanski also, I give him that credit.

• 1:23:33Sean Fennessey?

  Were there any other, um, people who testified in front of, who act that you want to give Oscars to?

• 1:23:40Speaker 05

  Oh, reverse the blacklist. No.

• 1:23:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, no, just anybody who squealed.

• 1:23:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:23:44Sean Fennessey?

  You know?

• 1:23:44Speaker 05

  No, I'm not, I'm just, I'm just trying to get.

• 1:23:46Amanda Dobbins?

  No Oscars for squealers, but.

• 1:23:48Sean Fennessey?

  In front of Congress, would you name names?

• 1:23:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, name, your name.

• 1:23:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Eddie, Eddie has. That was part of my, like, Chaplin research, because, right, Chaplin doesn't have a directing Oscar.

• 1:23:58Speaker 05

  Wait, Charlie Chaplin or, like, the movie Chaplin?

• 1:24:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Charlie Chaplin.

• 1:24:01Speaker 05

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:24:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Una Chaplin.

• 1:24:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Una Chaplin.

• 1:24:05Amanda Dobbins?

  And that part of it was blacklisting.

• 1:24:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:24:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, so, part of it.

• 1:24:10Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, I'm up.

• 1:24:11Speaker 05

  I do not like Joseph McCarthy, by the way.

• 1:24:13Sean Fennessey?

  You don't, you're not.

• 1:24:14Amanda Dobbins?

  I love him.

• 1:24:15Sean Fennessey?

  You think he is elite.

• 1:24:18Sean Fennessey?

  1939.

• 1:24:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, yeah, here we go.

• 1:24:20Sean Fennessey?

  Has not been touched on yet.

• 1:24:21Speaker 05

  Big Whiz?

• 1:24:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:23Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not going Big Whiz. I'm the wizard of Oz.

• 1:24:28Speaker 05

  You're not in the pocket of Big Munchkin?

• 1:24:31Sean Fennessey?

  I, I truly am, I truly am.

• 1:24:35Sean Fennessey?

  I was listening to, uh, the Munchkinland song with Alison, we were listening to it on Spotify with the lyrics on, and I was like, what in the world?

• 1:24:42Amanda Dobbins?

  It's really, yeah, when the children sit there like, no, can we listen to that part again? And.

• 1:24:47Sean Fennessey?

  Pretty weird.

• 1:24:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Lollipop Guild, I'm like, well, I don't know why you do this.

• 1:24:50Sean Fennessey?

  There's like a full-blown autopsy transpiring during the song.

• 1:24:53Speaker 05

  Listening to the.

• 1:24:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Listen, munchkins have corners too.

• 1:24:56Sean Fennessey?

  They're in the corner, yeah.

• 1:24:56Amanda Dobbins?

  It's a well-running society.

• 1:24:57Speaker 05

  When she is listening to the 2032 version of Little Peep, on the 2032 version of SoundCloud.

• 1:25:03Amanda Dobbins?

  And I'm like, wait, isn't the official diagnosis she's not? Only really dead, she's really most sincerely dead.

• 1:25:07Sean Fennessey?

  Really most sincerely dead.

• 1:25:09Amanda Dobbins?

  It's a technical term.

• 1:25:10Sean Fennessey?

  No whiz here. 1939, Robert Donnet wins for Goodbye Mr. Chips. No, we're not. Come on, we're not doing that. That's not okay. Over Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Now, this also has some serious ramifications if you do this.

• 1:25:22Amanda Dobbins?

  And you're also ignoring Clark Gable here for God with the Winds.

• 1:25:25Sean Fennessey?

  Which I would not pick. I would pick Jimmy Stewart in this category, because I'm not racist. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, that leads to Jimmy Stewart winning for The Philadelphia Story, which means Henry Fonda doesn't win for The Grapes of Wrath, which means we have to wait for Henry Fonda to win in On Golden Pond, which is not a good win. And then we get to give Warren Beatty his acting Oscar because he never got one in Reds. So I'm giving Jimmy Stewart the 39 Oscar, and then everybody gets to be happy.

• 1:25:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:25:54Speaker 07

  I can't believe The Grapes of Wrath came back.

• 1:25:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Your head is kind of shaped like Jimmy Stewart's.

• 1:25:58Sean Fennessey?

  Thank you.

• 1:26:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Just thinking out loud.

• 1:26:01Sean Fennessey?

  Screen legend, one of the most beloved figures in Hollywood history.

• 1:26:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:06Sean Fennessey?

  And what about my, my, my manner?

• 1:26:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I mean, you're more Jimmy than Carrie Grant.

• 1:26:13Sean Fennessey?

  That's not my thing. Um, okay. I feel good about that. Goodbye, Mr. Chips?

• 1:26:18Speaker 07

  I've seen it.

• 1:26:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow, so many of these movies. Who's next?

• 1:26:23Speaker 07

  No, sometimes you seem, like, you get to a Goodbye, Mr. Chips, and you're just like, this one?

• 1:26:28Sean Fennessey?

  That's exactly how I felt. Okay, Katie has two selections. How are you feeling about your draft?

• 1:26:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I feel good about my draft. I'm feeling a little, like, figuring out where to go next, which is, I think...

• 1:26:37Speaker 07

  What's your spread right now? Like, what decades do you have on the board?

• 1:26:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, what a great question. I've got 1989, 1974, 1941, and 2004. I've done pretty well. And, you know, weirdly, I'm looking at 21st century picture snubs and having a harder time, even though this is like, I have been covering the Oscars in this period for such a long time.

• 1:26:54Speaker 07

  Is this where we do Challengers?

• 1:26:56Amanda Dobbins?

  But I had the question of, like, is, when we were talking about the realistic nature of it, like, it's hard, I pushed that boulder up that hill for Challengers and couldn't get there. Like, I don't think there was a world in which that was gonna be Challengers. So, like, am I trying to take it more seriously?

• 1:27:08Sean Fennessey?

  I think there's one really good one left.

• 1:27:10Amanda Dobbins?

  In 21st century?

• 1:27:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:27:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:27:14Amanda Dobbins?

  I think I'm gonna get to that in a second, but I'm also looking at the fact that we have a big year left on the board, and I think I'm gonna go... You guys might be mad at the pick I'm gonna make here. I think I'm gonna go real zag. I'm going to 1999. Someone's gotta do it eventually. I'm going in Best Director, and I'm going with the Wachowskis. Who should have been nominated for The Matrix.

• 1:27:33Amanda Dobbins?

  That's really good. That's really good.

• 1:27:35Amanda Dobbins?

  The 1990s is famously awful Oscar year, where like, basically, nothing that gets nominated or wins is what should be in there.

• 1:27:41Amanda Dobbins?

  This is a real pro Ripley.

• 1:27:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, no. So the only reason this isn't my Ripley pick is because I already did Picture Nom. Like, I had some feelings about Ripley there, too.

• 1:27:52Amanda Dobbins?

  I also had, I mean, Damon wasn't even nominated for Talented Mr. Ripley, but that's like a real, that should be his Oscar, in my opinion.

• 1:27:57Amanda Dobbins?

  I kind of figured one of you guys would take Ripley already, and then I would have that, but so I...

• 1:28:01Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good way to get into that. I mean, there are a lot of even nominee snubs there. Like, I was watching shot in Matrix and Ripley were not nominated for Best Picture. That's crazy.

• 1:28:10Amanda Dobbins?

  You get Magnolia in there in a couple of categories, but not in Picture. The screenplay winners, like, I clicked into this. Like, would you believe that The Cider House Rules won Best Adapted Screenplay over Election: The Insider in Ripley?

• 1:28:23Amanda Dobbins?

  That was Weinstein.

• 1:28:24Sean Fennessey?

  Weinstein.

• 1:28:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, and The Green Miles in there, too. All credit to The Green Miles.

• 1:28:27Sean Fennessey?

  Also terrible Michael Caine win.

• 1:28:28Amanda Dobbins?

  A Michael Caine win.

• 1:28:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, absolutely. I mean, there's, it's a real, it kind of rivals 2018, I think, in terms of, like, this is what we gave you, and this is what you came up with for Oscar winners.

• 1:28:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Trying to explain to, like, younger film fans of, like, the spell that the Weinstein machine cast, and, you know, they're like, what do you mean Cider House Rules? It really had to be there. We all saw it. My dad used to quote it to us. Like, I don't know what to tell you.

• 1:28:53Amanda Dobbins?

  We all said, I guess this is what we have to do. I mean, again, I mean, we can, no, we can't get to it because we, not in wild card, but like, Original Screenplay, American Beauty wins over Being John Malkovich, Magnolia, The Sixth Sense, and Top Secret Turvy. Terrible. But, I mean, I just think with the Wachowskis, in terms of The Matrix, and when you think of, like, you picture 1999 in your head, great film year, but like, The Matrix is right there. What they invented, what that movie did in terms of capturing the culture. You were talking about this, Joanna, when something becomes big and it gets people's attention, and it's technical and innovative, and the Oscars were just so not ready for it on any level, and now we can fix that. So, that's my pick. Okay, so I guess I do have to do 21st Century, and I'm curious... I think this is where I just kind of have to go with my heart. And Joanna, you're gonna laugh at me because this is something we talked about too many times.

• 1:29:38Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm going to 2018, an Oscar year where a lot of things got really messed up. And you might think you know what I'm doing, but I'm going with first man.

• 1:29:45Amanda Dobbins?

  I knew, I knew from the second you opened your mouth. And I almost, when last night we were talking about Fox Catcher, I almost said, no dad's first man. That you're not allowed to talk about on podcasts anymore.

• 1:29:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, you didn't, so I'm talking about it now. This Damien Chazelle's follow up to La La Land. It is, I think, this gorgeous biopic that takes this idea of the great man and the great thing that he did. Let me cook. I also saw it at the Toronto Film Festival. I think I was pregnant and I'd been away from home for a week and I lost my mind. And I thought it was like the most emotional thing I'd ever seen. But 2018, again, that Oscar, that Best Picture lineup is not entirely trash. I mean, this is the year that Olivia Colman wins, so we have things that we can celebrate. But it's also the year of Bohemian Rhapsody. And hang on, what else am I gonna yell about?

• 1:30:31Amanda Dobbins?

  I just deleted Bradley Cooper, A Star is Born from my, but and in director, not actor.

• 1:30:36Amanda Dobbins?

  I had that thought as well.

• 1:30:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Vice gets into Best Picture. I don't even love Roma that much. Maybe we can yell about it. So I just, my, my heart is there with First Man in 2018 with all due apologies to A Star is Born, which I also love.

• 1:30:49Speaker 05

  This is also a great example of a movie that is lost to recent history that may have had more eyeballs if it had got nominated. So this is actually like how it did cinema a disservice by not getting nominated.

• 1:31:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Katie loves a dad movie and I love that about Katie.

• 1:31:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:05Speaker 05

  Saw this at Cinerama Dome, it was fucking awesome.

• 1:31:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Thank you.

• 1:31:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:09Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Sean's shaking his head over there.

• 1:31:11Sean Fennessey?

  No, I, I.

• 1:31:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Just a bunch of boys. They were.

• 1:31:14Amanda Dobbins?

  They were.

• 1:31:15Amanda Dobbins?

  And they changed history.

• 1:31:16Sean Fennessey?

  I think that it's a movie that people thought was like an old school Oscar movie. And it's actually more of a new school Oscar movie, but you couldn't tell because it was Chazelle and it was the space race and an astronaut. But it's really like a really quiet, interesting character study about a very sad person.

• 1:31:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:31Sean Fennessey?

  And it doesn't really play the way that a lot of Oscar movies tend to play for that reason. But it's a great pick and a great, great movie.

• 1:31:38Speaker 05

  It's your turn.

• 1:31:39Sean Fennessey?

  It's my turn.

• 1:31:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:31:40Sean Fennessey?

  I interviewed Chazelle with Bill during that press run, which is kind of fascinating. I think Chazelle was sitting in the room with both of us and he was like. Who am I supposed to be looking at?

• 1:31:50Amanda Dobbins?

  He was in such a weird spot after La La Land. He didn't really have a chance.

• 1:31:55Sean Fennessey?

  Did you ever hear that interview? It's pretty funny.

• 1:31:57Speaker 05

  I have, yeah. It's also just like the riding shotgun on a Bill interview is one of those like, am I, I'm disassociating so hard.

• 1:32:06Sean Fennessey?

  We've both done it a few times. It's always interesting. Gosh, I haven't done best director yet. I've done, I think I've done every other category, haven't I? I have.

• 1:32:15Speaker 07

  Besides wildcard.

• 1:32:17Sean Fennessey?

  Besides wildcard. I'm just gonna do it. 1982, Richard Attenborough wins best director for Gandhi over Steven Spielberg for E.T., which is just, just absolute nonsense. You know, I think that win is also not a great win, but this is Steven Spielberg, another one of these people who just had to wait weirdly too long. And has since been kind of properly recognized by the Academy, but.

• 1:32:40Speaker 07

  That much longer.

• 1:32:41Sean Fennessey?

  11 more years, right?

• 1:32:42Amanda Dobbins?

  He doesn't win till Schindler's List.

• 1:32:43Speaker 07

  But it's still like, that's still so early in his career relatively, right? There's so much after Schindler's.

• 1:32:49Sean Fennessey?

  I guess, but like, think about everything he accomplished between Jaws and Schindler's List and the way that he basically remakes Hollywood in his image. And so it was, it's always interested in me that he didn't win across that period of time. That like, they sort of made him wait. And you know, the Attenborough win is obviously recognized as somebody who had been in Hollywood and in British filmmaking since the 1930s.

• 1:33:12Sean Fennessey?

  You know, Gandhi's okay. We, I revisited it for the Daniel Day-Lewis Hall of Fame because he's in one scene. And I think it's his first film performance. And he's darn good in it. But Gandhi is.

• 1:33:21Speaker 07

  Are you gonna run it back for your Cadiz Bergen Hall of Fame or?

• 1:33:24Sean Fennessey?

  I might.

• 1:33:25Speaker 05

  This is one of the great fuckups in best directing and the person who should have won didn't even get nominated.

• 1:33:30Sean Fennessey?

  We think that's Ridley Scott. Well, I was also taking Blade Runner away from you in this one, yeah. In case you were looking for that.

• 1:33:35Speaker 07

  And you took Paul Newman in the verdict, which I still think is when he should have, he should have won.

• 1:33:40Sean Fennessey?

  There, that's a rich year for Oscar travesties.

• 1:33:43Amanda Dobbins?

  I had a Tron's visual effects down and a wildcard option. I probably wasn't gonna pick it, but just throwing that out there.

• 1:33:48Sean Fennessey?

  I saw you've been, you've been visiting those with your children.

• 1:33:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Tron took over my household. We pivoted from Star Wars to Tron. We just like live in 1984 now. It's weird.

• 1:33:55Sean Fennessey?

  What's the, what's the, what's the word on the original Tron?

• 1:33:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, it's a little boring, but like, we keep coming back to it. It's like, it's where all the visual stuff comes from.

• 1:34:03Sean Fennessey?

  Sure.

• 1:34:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, my kid wants to draw stuff from Tron and there's more to get from the Tron movie than the other two.

• 1:34:09Sean Fennessey?

  This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype? Marketers know that feeling. They optimize for the numbers that look great, impressions, reach and reacts. But when they don't show revenue, well, that's a not so great conversation with the CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that, bull spend. Instead, why not invest in what looks good to your CFO? LinkedIn Ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. Reach the right buyers with LinkedIn Ads. You can target by company, industry, job title and more. So, cut the bull spend, advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn Ads and get a $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com/thebigpicture.

• 1:34:51Sean Fennessey?

  That's LinkedIn.com/thebigpicture. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. There's nothing better than having friends who support whatever you're into, like rewatching a director's entire catalog in the lead up to their latest release. And like those friends, State Farm is there to help you feel supported by helping you choose the coverage you need. With so many coverage options, it's nice knowing you have help finding what fits for you. So, you can check coverage off the list and spend more time debating movie rankings. Go online at StateFarm.com or use the easily accessible app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Amazon Prime. What pairs with a good comedy? The cozy blanket arriving with Prime. What pairs with a nail biting thriller? Snacks arriving with Prime.

• 1:35:36Sean Fennessey?

  What pairs with the big game on Prime Video? That new couch arriving with Prime. Whatever feeling you're after, Prime helps bring it to life with great entertainment and fast shipping that delivers what the moment calls for. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on Prime. Chris, you're up.

• 1:35:52Speaker 05

  21st century Best Picture nominee snub? I've left 2006 Children of Men.

• 1:36:00Sean Fennessey?

  That was the big one that I said was still on the board.

• 1:36:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh my God, you just screwed over my.

• 1:36:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Gemma R. Antoinette.

• 1:36:07Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I was gonna do Marilyn Deborah Rose Prado for Best Actor.

• 1:36:10Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Best Picture nominees that year departed, which one? Babel, Letters from Iwo Jima, Little Miss Sunshine and The Queen?

• 1:36:18Sean Fennessey?

  What's your favorite of those?

• 1:36:20Amanda Dobbins?

  He's a real Iwo Jima guy.

• 1:36:22Sean Fennessey?

  What's your second favorite?

• 1:36:27Sean Fennessey?

  Babbel, just say it.

• 1:36:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it's okay.

• 1:36:29Speaker 05

  Uh, my wife had such a bad panic attack watching Babbel. No, that was 21 grams. That's my bad.

• 1:36:35Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, Babbel was kind of her worst nightmare.

• 1:36:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:36:37Sean Fennessey?

  Of like, we're on a bus in the middle of nowhere.

• 1:36:40Speaker 05

  Children and Men, I'd put in for, honestly, for Babbel, I'd put it in over A Little Miss Sunshine and The Queen and Letters from Ujima, but like, it's, take your pick.

• 1:36:48Sean Fennessey?

  You felt Quinn should not have focused on the Japanese perspective?

• 1:36:50Speaker 05

  No, I thought that was an interesting gambit, like, to do the two films back to back.

• 1:36:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, Children and Men.

• 1:36:58Speaker 05

  You always take away from my POV by accusing me of being a crypto fascist, but I'm not.

• 1:37:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:05Speaker 05

  I want Children and Men to win.

• 1:37:06Sean Fennessey?

  I'm just asking questions. I'm just asking questions.

• 1:37:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Children and Men absolutely rocked us on 25 for 25.

• 1:37:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:12Amanda Dobbins?

  I like.

• 1:37:12Sean Fennessey?

  On the revisit, we were like, whoops, best movie ever made.

• 1:37:16Amanda Dobbins?

  One or two times, I started crying on the podcast last year, so, yeah.

• 1:37:20Sean Fennessey?

  That movie is incredible.

• 1:37:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, Lights Out.

• 1:37:22Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:37:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Really good.

• 1:37:25Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, Amanda, you're up.

• 1:37:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, it's me. Okay, so I was gonna do Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Prada in 2006 for my Best Actress winner sub, uh, over Helen Mirren in The Queen. Helen Mirren in The Queen, very good. That seems like a, it's just like a nice to be nominated situation for that one.

• 1:37:40Sean Fennessey?

  It was kind of a, I don't know if it was, if it was a makeup win, what was it a makeup win for?

• 1:37:44Amanda Dobbins?

  It felt like it at the time, and I feel like I didn't realize, I was like, oh, there hasn't been like some other big thing she would have won for.

• 1:37:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, she never felt passed over.

• 1:37:52Amanda Dobbins?

  It was just like, she's a star of stage and TV and prime suspect. Like, she had been all over everything. And it's just sort of like, Helen Mirren should have an Oscar. She cruised.

• 1:38:00Amanda Dobbins?

  It also feels like everyone was just like, oh, we're sorry for being mean to The Queen because she's old now.

• 1:38:05Sean Fennessey?

  No one was thinking.

• 1:38:08Amanda Dobbins?

  I think non-Irish people were.

• 1:38:11Sean Fennessey?

  Maybe, I don't know. Were the English thinking about that, Chris? I'm sorry we were mean to The Queen.

• 1:38:15Amanda Dobbins?

  It was in a box.

• 1:38:20Amanda Dobbins?

  So, but I do have Best Actress winner sub, so I'll just go with, uh, my backup in 2003, uh, Diane Keaton for Something's Gotta Give.

• 1:38:28Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm, good.

• 1:38:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, which was nominated and I think is like one of only two Nancy Meyers-related nominations to ever happen, the other being, uh, screenwriting for Private Benjamin. Uh, but, yeah, like, I think Diane Keaton can have two Oscars.

• 1:38:46Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:38:46Amanda Dobbins?

  In, in my book, it's fine with me, but this is.

• 1:38:50Sean Fennessey?

  Book Club and Book Club 2?

• 1:38:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:38:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Have you seen both book clubs?

• 1:38:54Sean Fennessey?

  I saw a book club.

• 1:38:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:38:55Sean Fennessey?

  I haven't seen the second one.

• 1:38:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Tell me, tell me about the sequel.

• 1:38:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Book Club 2.

• 1:38:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Do they rate Fifty Shades of Grey, the sequel?

• 1:38:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, they go to Italy and there's an incredible makeover sequence with Diane Keaton 2, where she like, Diane Keaton, she wears like, she gets a whole polka dot thing. They also perform the song Gloria. Like at a, some sort of restaurant opening somewhere in Italy.

• 1:39:19Sean Fennessey?

  Van Morrison's Gloria?

• 1:39:20Amanda Dobbins?

  No, Laura Branigan. Get with it. Okay?

• 1:39:26Sean Fennessey?

  G L O R I A?

• 1:39:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:28Sean Fennessey?

  Glor-

• 1:39:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I also know that one.

• 1:39:30Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:39:31Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know, something's gotta give is like, one of the great modern rom coms. Also, you know, a performance later in life about the, being later in life, which best actress doesn't always recognize.

• 1:39:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Are you taking away Charlize's Oscar and giving her another one? Or is it just the-

• 1:39:48Amanda Dobbins?

  I, listen, it's, if, I haven't thought that, that far about what she wants. She can have it for the old guard or whatever.

• 1:39:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Or can she take Brie Larson?

• 1:39:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:56Sean Fennessey?

  In the Fast movies? Megatron or whatever? Cypher? Cypher?

• 1:40:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, she can take Brie Larson.

• 1:40:01Amanda Dobbins?

  This is not my corner. She's lead supporting in Mad Max. What do you think?

• 1:40:04Sean Fennessey?

  Chris, you like, are you?

• 1:40:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Lead. Visually. It's a silent film.

• 1:40:09Sean Fennessey?

  Are you turned on by Charlize in the Fast films?

• 1:40:11Speaker 05

  No, I've, I've never seen Charlize's Fast films.

• 1:40:14Sean Fennessey?

  Never seen?

• 1:40:15Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:40:16Amanda Dobbins?

  How many are there?

• 1:40:17Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, she's in three?

• 1:40:18Amanda Dobbins?

  She's in nine, 10, right?

• 1:40:22Sean Fennessey?

  Like eight, nine, 10.

• 1:40:23Speaker 05

  I prefer her at the end of Doctor Strange.

• 1:40:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, that's her best role.

• 1:40:26Speaker 05

  Actually, honestly, if we're really being real.

• 1:40:28Amanda Dobbins?

  When she comes out of the-

• 1:40:29Speaker 05

  My favorite Charlize is Atomic Blonde.

• 1:40:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I was gonna say.

• 1:40:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, say it's Multiverse of Madness. Say it's, say it's full name, you know?

• 1:40:34Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, directed by Sam Raimi. Please show some respect. Uh, back on top, Sam's back on top, guys. Two weeks in a row, send help.

• 1:40:44Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, who's, are you up now, Joanna? Two picks? I believe it's me. Okay. To, to finish out my entire thing.

• 1:40:49Amanda Dobbins?

  This is you wrapping it up?

• 1:40:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:52Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so in Best Picture nomination snub 20th Century, because I could not give-

• 1:41:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Um. Kurosawa, the director slot that he deserved. I'm gonna do 1956, Seven Samurai, Best Picture snub. Hmm.

• 1:41:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Good one.

• 1:41:13Amanda Dobbins?

  It's a great movie. Have you heard of it?

• 1:41:15Amanda Dobbins?

  A classic film.

• 1:41:16Sean Fennessey?

  Wait, what year?

• 1:41:17Amanda Dobbins?

  1956, right?

• 1:41:20Sean Fennessey?

  56, okay.

• 1:41:20Amanda Dobbins?

  That's a, that's a rough Best Picture lineup right there. What is it?

• 1:41:24Sean Fennessey?

  What's on the board?

• 1:41:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Around the World in 80 Days wins. Hmm.

• 1:41:26Sean Fennessey?

  Bad.

• 1:41:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Friendly Persuasion is a movie I haven't seen. I love William Wyler. Um, Giants in there, your respects. The King and I, and the Ten Commandments. I think you can find room for-

• 1:41:36Speaker 05

  The TCs.

• 1:41:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

• 1:41:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Can you name all 10 of them?

• 1:41:41Speaker 05

  Uh.

• 1:41:44Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:41:45Sean Fennessey?

  There's a great bit. I just, I, I just, I just rewatched The Mask of Zorro. You ever see that movie?

• 1:41:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:41:52Sean Fennessey?

  Antonio Banderas. It's a really fun movie.

• 1:41:54Speaker 05

  Why'd you rewatch that?

• 1:41:55Sean Fennessey?

  I'll, I'll tell you why. Oh, I can tell you why right now because it will have already happened. I was rewatching the films of Martin Campbell because we're doing Golden Eye on the Rewatchables.

• 1:42:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, fun.

• 1:42:02Sean Fennessey?

  So that's the movie he makes immediately after Golden Eye.

• 1:42:04Speaker 05

  I did not do that. For Golden, of course.

• 1:42:07Sean Fennessey?

  This is what I do.

• 1:42:08Amanda Dobbins?

  You just replay the game like forever?

• 1:42:09Speaker 05

  No, I've actually just been living with only Nokia-era technology for the last two, two weeks.

• 1:42:14Sean Fennessey?

  So anyway, I bring it up because there's a really funny moment where Catherine Zeta-Jones's character goes to give confession, and in the confession booth, or, you know, play acting as a priest is Antonio Banderas, who's not a priest. And she says, um, you know, "Father, I've come to make a confession. Uh, I broke the Fourth Commandment." And he pauses, and he says, "What could have caused you to have broken the most sacred of commandments?" And she was like, "Well, I wasn't loyal to my father." And he was like, "Oh, shit." Like, that's not the most sacred of commandments. He did not know, obviously, the Fourth Commandment was. So, you know, let's, let's name them all right now. Let's go around the table.

• 1:42:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. I have a Ten Commandments question, and this is maybe an LA thing you guys all know, but at the Chinese theater, the, like, the multiplex version of it, they just have the Ten Commandments from the movie? And, those are the real ones? Like, the?

• 1:43:01Sean Fennessey?

  Those are the ones that, from God, yeah.

• 1:43:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. They're in Los Angeles thousands of years ago. I guess, it was just like a, a random, empty multiplex, and then there were incredibly old movie props. I couldn't believe it. You guys just live like this.

• 1:43:15Amanda Dobbins?

  There's definitely Kill.

• 1:43:15Amanda Dobbins?

  It's weird, right?

• 1:43:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Usually it's costumes.

• 1:43:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:43:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, there were costumes in there, too. What a dork, his dresses was there.

• 1:43:20Sean Fennessey?

  I love how you went there right after that, yeah.

• 1:43:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Did you get, yeah, so killing-

• 1:43:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Cover thy neighbor's wife.

• 1:43:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, stealing.

• 1:43:26Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:43:26Amanda Dobbins?

  False gods. Oh, yeah. Uh, I had to take a whole year.

• 1:43:30Amanda Dobbins?

  You honor God above all.

• 1:43:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, taking, taking your neighbor's stuff. Not just their wife, but also their cattle.

• 1:43:35Amanda Dobbins?

  That's stealing.

• 1:43:36Sean Fennessey?

  That's stealing, yeah.

• 1:43:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, stealing.

• 1:43:37Amanda Dobbins?

  What about keeping the Sabbath?

• 1:43:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, sure, yeah.

• 1:43:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Where are we at?

• 1:43:42Sean Fennessey?

  Taking the Lord's name in vain?

• 1:43:43Speaker 05

  Advancing the runner.

• 1:43:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:43:45Sean Fennessey?

  Pardon me?

• 1:43:46Speaker 05

  Advancing the runner, you know, just make, make a good baseball.

• 1:43:48Sean Fennessey?

  Sure, bunting? Yeah, that's a, that's a sin.

• 1:43:52Amanda Dobbins?

  We all have standards in our lives.

• 1:43:53Amanda Dobbins?

  For prediction from you?

• 1:43:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:43:55Amanda Dobbins?

  What percentage of the GoldenEye rewatchables will be spent on Fauca Johnson, do you think?

• 1:43:59Speaker 05

  I would say eighty-three percent.

• 1:44:01Sean Fennessey?

  That is where the over-under starts.

• 1:44:03Speaker 05

  What's her name, Elena Anatop?

• 1:44:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, Anatop.

• 1:44:07Sean Fennessey?

  Very excited for this spot.

• 1:44:08Speaker 05

  She plays Bakara and she derives sexual pleasure from beating men up.

• 1:44:12Sean Fennessey?

  No, from choking men to death with her legs.

• 1:44:15Amanda Dobbins?

  With their thighs.

• 1:44:15Sean Fennessey?

  Which...

• 1:44:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Anatop.

• 1:44:17Sean Fennessey?

  Something I understand. Uh, okay, who's up? Joanna has one more. Just clarifying, Jo, Seven Samurai, nineteen fifty-six, because the US release?

• 1:44:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:44:28Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:44:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Thank you. And then, last but not least, and this is just fixing history and not involving Albert Nobbs, in nineteen eighty-eight, we are giving Glenn Close the Best Actress Oscar for Dangerous Liaisons. Jodie Foster, we're taking one of her Oscars away, but she still has her Silence of the Lambs Oscar, so I'm not mad about it.

• 1:44:50Amanda Dobbins?

  I've gone down this rabbit hole before, and it is a really clean fix.

• 1:44:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Heidi?

• 1:44:55Sean Fennessey?

  I like it.

• 1:44:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Um... It doesn't honor the, the three actresses nominated for Working Girl that year, but, okay. Tough, really tough. Yeah.

• 1:45:03Sean Fennessey?

  It's too bad.

• 1:45:04Amanda Dobbins?

  But...

• 1:45:04Sean Fennessey?

  Jodie, you think not elite?

• 1:45:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, that's what I said.

• 1:45:08Sean Fennessey?

  Not deserving of two?

• 1:45:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I really don't care about movies about women and sexual assault, you know, like, all that sort of stuff. Glenn Close in Dangerous Liaisons is like, an absolute incredible performance.

• 1:45:18Sean Fennessey?

  Very good.

• 1:45:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Dangerous Liaisons is like, a perfect film, she's incredible in it, and this would have, uh, saved us. A lot of agitation over the years. I never would have had to watch her twerk, you know? And that's really important to me.

• 1:45:29Speaker 05

  When did she twerk?

• 1:45:30Amanda Dobbins?

  The COVID Oscars.

• 1:45:31Amanda Dobbins?

  When she was nominated for Hillbilly Elegy.

• 1:45:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Here's the question, would you still have to watch Hillbilly Elegy?

• 1:45:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Is that the same thing as twerking?

• 1:45:37Speaker 05

  And that's in the Soderbergh Oscars?

• 1:45:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, Traitorion Oscars.

• 1:45:40Amanda Dobbins?

  COVID Oscars.

• 1:45:40Speaker 05

  Did you watch that? I did, yeah.

• 1:45:42Sean Fennessey?

  You don't remember?

• 1:45:43Speaker 05

  My memory holds that.

• 1:45:44Amanda Dobbins?

  It's really tough. Very tough.

• 1:45:47Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, back to Amanda.

• 1:45:49Amanda Dobbins?

  I have a wild card, and I, there are just a tremendous number of things here left, including the cute pic that I'm not gonna do. Well, Ralph Fiennes in A Bigger Splash was taken, and then I'm not gonna do Javier Robert Evans' Skyfall, even though I stand by that.

• 1:46:03Amanda Dobbins?

  I had Skyfall on this.

• 1:46:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Since I wound up being pretty like 21st century heavy, I'm gonna try to go back in time. And I kinda can't, I'm gonna do Best Picture, well, no, no, I can do whatever I want. It doesn't, it doesn't matter what category it is. Um, Network didn't win Best Picture in 1976, so I'm gonna take that. And I'm taking that over All the President's Men, another film that I absolutely adore that did also not win Best Picture because Rocky did.

• 1:46:37Sean Fennessey?

  Where do you stand on Rocky?

• 1:46:39Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, we were in Philadelphia for Thanksgiving, and we went to the top of the steps, and we did the little pose. And it's a great soundtrack, and it's slow. It's really slow.

• 1:46:50Speaker 05

  Rocky is very slow.

• 1:46:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I prefer Creed to, to Rocky at this point, just from a watching experience. That said, like, I obviously wept.

• 1:46:59Sean Fennessey?

  Because Rocky's white?

• 1:46:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Creed, yeah, that's, yeah.

• 1:47:03Amanda Dobbins?

  I wept during Creed when the Rocky theme song came in, so it's like, I, I honor the accomplishment. I'm just ignoring you at this point.

• 1:47:10Speaker 05

  In 2026, I want you to dig deeper.

• 1:47:12Sean Fennessey?

  I shouldn't mix it up.

• 1:47:15Sean Fennessey?

  We're talking a lot of history, you know?

• 1:47:17Amanda Dobbins?

  So, that's great. Anyway, I go with Network because it, you know, predicted the world. Or like measured the world at the time that it was, what was that? Oh, okay. That was you.

• 1:47:30Sean Fennessey?

  That was John Avett's ghost who just knocked that off.

• 1:47:35Sean Fennessey?

  Because he was like, this will not stand.

• 1:47:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, so I'm going with Network over All the President's Men because it is a trenchant work of social commentary. Like, I mean, it's just one of the greatest movies ever made.

• 1:47:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, and All the President's Men, I mean-

• 1:47:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Suck it again, journalism.

• 1:47:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I probably rewatched All the President's Men more, personally. Yeah.

• 1:47:54Sean Fennessey?

  Taxi Driver, also nominated that year.

• 1:47:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:47:57Sean Fennessey?

  Honestly, maybe even more resonant in our culture than Network or All the President's Men, to be honest.

• 1:48:02Speaker 05

  It would be dope if Amanda was like, I only watched Taxi Driver.

• 1:48:09Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, CR, your last pick.

• 1:48:11Speaker 05

  For my wild card, inspired by the If This Then That machinations that you guys have been doing, let's go. I think I can do this year-wise. 1978?

• 1:48:25Speaker 05

  And let's give Ennio Morricone best score for beating, was that Giorgio Moroder that year?

• 1:48:35Sean Fennessey?

  Saturday Night Fever?

• 1:48:37Speaker 05

  That's, hold on.

• 1:48:39Sean Fennessey?

  No, not Saturday Night Fever.

• 1:48:40Amanda Dobbins?

  This is fun. I'm being serious.

• 1:48:43Speaker 05

  Giorgio Moroder from Midnight Express wins that year. Ennio Morricone wins Here for Days of Heaven, clearing him from needing to win for Hateful Eight, which is kind of a mixtape of Ennio Morricone music, and we give it to Johan Johansson for Sicario that year.

• 1:49:01Speaker 05

  And he passes away just a few years after that.

• 1:49:02Sean Fennessey?

  That's true. You got Sicario into this pod.

• 1:49:06Amanda Dobbins?

  You got Master Commander and Sicario on this podcast. I'm really proud of you for that. We follow our hearts.

• 1:49:10Speaker 05

  But how can you not reward Ennio Morricone for Days of Heaven?

• 1:49:13Amanda Dobbins?

  That's true. You got First Man into this podcast. That's great.

• 1:49:18Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:49:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Movies. They're good.

• 1:49:20Sean Fennessey?

  Love movies. So I've got one more pick left. In Wildcard.

• 1:49:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Wildcard is overwhelming. Yeah, because we have so much stuff. I know, there's so much still on the table. I can't believe how much is still on the list.

• 1:49:35Speaker 05

  Perhaps the biggest one ever, it ever got talked about here, right?

• 1:49:39Sean Fennessey?

  The biggest, the biggest.

• 1:49:40Speaker 05

  One of the biggest travesty snobs ever, or whatever, you know?

• 1:49:44Sean Fennessey?

  What are you referring to?

• 1:49:45Speaker 05

  Saving Private Ryan?

• 1:49:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh.

• 1:49:46Speaker 05

  Shakespeare in Love.

• 1:49:47Sean Fennessey?

  Well, 98 is off the board.

• 1:49:48Speaker 05

  I know. I mean, we didn't do it.

• 1:49:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, we haven't talked about it. Well, you're a fan.

• 1:49:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Shakespeare in Love defender right here. I love Shakespeare.

• 1:49:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, that's.

• 1:49:54Speaker 05

  I like it as well.

• 1:49:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, it's fine.

• 1:49:57Sean Fennessey?

  It's fine.

• 1:49:57Amanda Dobbins?

  So it's a best actress winner.

• 1:49:59Sean Fennessey?

  It's like, you know, uh, your first man pick was really good, but it really stymied where I was hoping to go in wild card.

• 1:50:05Amanda Dobbins?

  18 is a rich text.

• 1:50:06Sean Fennessey?

  I really wanted to go Ethan Hawke in First Reformed. That's the year that Rami Malek wins for Bohemian Rhapsody.

• 1:50:11Amanda Dobbins?

  That was on my list.

• 1:50:12Sean Fennessey?

  That's a rough win. And there are some interesting nominees in the category that year, but I, I, I love Ethan Hawke in First Reformed. I think I'm gonna go with like a very obvious one that always shocks me every time I hear it. And we haven't, 1977 is still on the board, right?

• 1:50:26Amanda Dobbins?

  I was literally just Googling this. Yeah, like, yes.

• 1:50:29Sean Fennessey?

  Close Encounters of the Third Kind was not nominated for Best Picture. And I, that's just mind blowing.

• 1:50:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:50:36Sean Fennessey?

  And it's, it's not exactly the most legendary collection of five that were nominated. It's The Goodbye Girl, Julia, Star Wars, notable, The Turning Point, and Annie Hall.

• 1:50:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Star Wars, I've heard of that.

• 1:50:47Sean Fennessey?

  Now, obviously, Star Wars and Annie Hall, at the time, acclaimed movies, huge hits, very important to movie history. The Goodbye Girl and The Turning Point have the same director?

• 1:50:57Amanda Dobbins?

  So you're doubling down on your, on your justice for Spielberg in this era?

• 1:51:01Sean Fennessey?

  I think so.

• 1:51:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Spielberg does not have enough Oscars. This is my hot and correct take. He has three Oscars, one for Best Picture, two for Director. It's not enough.

• 1:51:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Also, have you seen The Turning Point?

• 1:51:10Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 1:51:10Amanda Dobbins?

  It's really tough.

• 1:51:12Speaker 05

  Really not good.

• 1:51:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Listen, and I love a ballet film as much as the next person.

• 1:51:15Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm not here to defend The Turning Point. I just think it's interesting that, that of like seven slots, you need two to go to Spielberg.

• 1:51:22Sean Fennessey?

  Well, that is how I feel.

• 1:51:23Speaker 05

  Disclosure Day is almost upon us.

• 1:51:26Sean Fennessey?

  That is truly how I feel.

• 1:51:27Amanda Dobbins?

  At the DGAs, everyone in that room was awed by being in the presence of.

• 1:51:31Sean Fennessey?

  We just talked about this on the show. I mean, his, his aura was very strong in the room.

• 1:51:36Speaker 05

  We should do 21st Century Spielberg for drafts.

• 1:51:40Amanda Dobbins?

  That was so fun.

• 1:51:41Sean Fennessey?

  Great.

• 1:51:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, is there?

• 1:51:42Sean Fennessey?

  Done.

• 1:51:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, for the three of us?

• 1:51:43Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, for Disclosure Day. For Disclosure Day.

• 1:51:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Great, okay.

• 1:51:45Sean Fennessey?

  Um, so yeah, I'll put Close Encounters of the Third Kind in my wild card spot.

• 1:51:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:51:51Speaker 05

  Did you have anything, uh, that was like?

• 1:51:53Sean Fennessey?

  It wasn't nominated, I think, because Star Wars was nominated. And they're like, surely we will not put two side movies.

• 1:51:57Amanda Dobbins?

  And he was nominated for Director.

• 1:51:59Speaker 05

  So we need to give this guy.

• 1:52:00Sean Fennessey?

  He was.

• 1:52:04Sean Fennessey?

  Um, okay.

• 1:52:07Sean Fennessey?

  Katie, you're up.

• 1:52:07Amanda Dobbins?

  All right, 77 takes my best weirdo wildcard in one of my favorite categories, which is original song, which gets so weird all the time. Injustice is done constantly because New York, New York, made famous by Frank Sinatra, is in the film New York, New York, which I don't think I would have nominated for Oscars as a film, but as a song, it would have been in there. So I tried to think of some songs, but there's like one other really huge, really famous snub, the movie that taught me truly, I think, what an Oscar snub was, which is 1994 documentary feature Hoop Dreams. Y'all know about basketball? You're familiar with the sport? Yes. Played it many times.

• 1:52:40Speaker 05

  Possibly the best pick of this draft.

• 1:52:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Welcome to the Ringer. I gotta give credit to my friend Chris File of This Had Oscar Buzz Podcast, which is about all of this stuff, so anyone who loves it can listen to them. But he picked that. They did snubs a couple of years ago, 100 of all time, and this was the number one pick. And I do think it is this definitive, how the Oscars have blind spots, how they can fix it. Documentaries were really like, it's kind of a different world of docs back then. Like, the winner is Maya Lin, A Clear Strong Vision, which I guess would have been in theaters, but it sounds like a real PBS kind of thing, and I think that's how the 90s were. But, I mean, Hoop Dreams is, it feels kind of like an extended, like, evening news segment, which is more or less what it is. It's kind of public television, but it is long and extensive, and it kind of sets this model for these long-term documentaries, and having films about people who you might not necessarily see in film and television all the time.

• 1:53:26Amanda Dobbins?

  So, it's, again, yeah, like, an iconic, I remember them making jokes about it, watching the Oscars as a kid, and having to, like, ask my parents what they were talking about. And it taught me a lot.

• 1:53:36Sean Fennessey?

  It's interesting that you picked that for a variety of reasons. One of the things it reminded me of was Siskel and Ebert really went out of their way to praise this movie.

• 1:53:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, Chicago.

• 1:53:45Sean Fennessey?

  They really devoted a lot of time to it on their show, they both loved it. I think in their Best of the Decades, that was very high on their lists. And I think that that shows something that has kind of changed about the Academy Awards over the last 25 years or so, which is that they're much closer in line with critics than they used to be, especially in the last 10 years. There was a long period of time where it did feel very clubby at the Oscars, and a lot of things that would win was very much related to who you knew and how you knew them.

• 1:54:13Speaker 05

  It was like Tammy Hall stuff.

• 1:54:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:54:15Speaker 05

  It was like Backer and Deon.

• 1:54:16Sean Fennessey?

  A lot of small groups talking about what they really like, and then hive minds forming around that, and then a lot of, like, some curiosity around the outer edges of the nominees.

• 1:54:24Speaker 05

  You chalk that up to social media?

• 1:54:25Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's it. I think a big part of it is the industry, like you pointed out, the top of the conversation has gotten much bigger. The campaigns start way earlier. There is a lot more, kind of like... Opportunities to talk about things and to also like, share the truth, for lack of a better phrase.

• 1:54:40Speaker 05

  But also publicly.

• 1:54:41Sean Fennessey?

  You can't let this happen.

• 1:54:42Amanda Dobbins?

  The chuckle lot is not getting in for best.

• 1:54:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but like Andrea Riseborough still just.

• 1:54:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:54:47Amanda Dobbins?

  And social media like helped its, you know, Mary Way. I remember.

• 1:54:51Speaker 05

  When was that?

• 1:54:53Sean Fennessey?

  Three years ago.

• 1:54:54Speaker 05

  Three years ago. There's just some goofy stuff.

• 1:54:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Which also got Oscar voters who live in Brazil and Hong Kong and all these places. They can't. Oh, they don't have access to that kind of insider-y thing. So it just isn't as powerful as it used to be by the sheer numbers of it.

• 1:55:07Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, honorable mentions.

• 1:55:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Oh, boy.

• 1:55:09Sean Fennessey?

  There's gotta be a few on the board for you.

• 1:55:10Speaker 05

  Before we do honorable mentions, did you guys have one? What would you be your most controversial? One?

• 1:55:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, let's see.

• 1:55:21Speaker 05

  What would have been your one that you were like, I'm taking away from what many people consider a deserving winner? I will give you an example, just as a conversation starter. I think that Angelica Huston should have won for The Grifters instead of Kathy Bates from Misery. Just on my personal preference of those performances.

• 1:55:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Isn't Kathy Bates from Misery also 1990, which would be Julia Roberts for, well, I'm taking, I would have taken.

• 1:55:46Speaker 05

  Julia Roberts over Kathy Bates?

• 1:55:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Absolutely. And that also would have taken away Goodfellas and Scorsese in Director.

• 1:55:53Sean Fennessey?

  Could have been a move.

• 1:55:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:55Speaker 05

  Kathy Bates is, you know.

• 1:55:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Kathy Bates is wonderful. Here's one I was too scared to play, but I kind of wanted to. If we give Peter O'Toole the Oscar for Lawrence of Arabia, we have to take it from Gregory Peck for To Kill a Mockingbird.

• 1:56:09Speaker 05

  I think that's fine.

• 1:56:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. I think his bench is like very important to me personally. And so, and then, and, and Peck doesn't have another Oscar, so I couldn't, I couldn't make that.

• 1:56:20Sean Fennessey?

  Matt O'Toole doesn't have any Oscars.

• 1:56:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, he has an honorary Oscar. There's a couch in my book.

• 1:56:26Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good one. I don't know. I struggle to think of it like a super obvious. I don't think this one is as obvious, but I thought about it because I it kind of did the reverse of what I was trying to do through some of this, which is I would take away Nicole Kidman's Oscar for the hours and I would give it to Julianne Moore for Far From Heaven. But then I would also take away Emma Stone's second Oscar for Poor Things and give it to Nicole Kidman for Baby Girl. Like that, like that sort of like some of those moves.

• 1:56:53Amanda Dobbins?

  You're just swapping gingers around.

• 1:56:54Sean Fennessey?

  Some of my favorites. I know.

• 1:56:56Speaker 05

  I would also take away Julianne. She won for Still Alice?

• 1:56:59Sean Fennessey?

  Which is just not really a very good film.

• 1:57:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was gonna give.

• 1:57:04Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, that's the thing that got you. You did Dragon Tattoo instead of Gone Girl being which I that. We didn't talk about Fincher enough, is I guess.

• 1:57:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:12Amanda Dobbins?

  And we talked about him a lot.

• 1:57:13Sean Fennessey?

  We got Social Network and Dragon Tattoo in.

• 1:57:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Do we never do 07? Because I thought I had Zodiac right down and we just never got to it.

• 1:57:19Sean Fennessey?

  Zero Oscar nominations for Zodiac. No one wanted to ride for Heat at this table?

• 1:57:23Speaker 05

  I I am obviously always riding for Heat, but yeah, I.

• 1:57:27Sean Fennessey?

  If they did a Heat is 95?

• 1:57:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:31Sean Fennessey?

  If they did a 30-year-later Oscar vote amongst the entire active Academy, the 10, and maybe they should do something like this. That would be really fun if they did something like this. But if they did a just a typical vote, you know, where it's just like every movie is on the board, every movie that was eligible then is eligible now, would Heat win Best Picture?

• 1:57:50Speaker 05

  I'd get you would get nominated within a 10. I don't know if it would win Best Picture.

• 1:57:54Sean Fennessey?

  Would it be nominated in a five?

• 1:57:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. For 1995?

• 1:57:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Over Il Postino?

• 1:57:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:58:00Amanda Dobbins?

  I was noodling with 95 for Apollo 13 because I think the Ron Howard stuff.

• 1:58:03Sean Fennessey?

  Can you read the nominees from that year?

• 1:58:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I was about that.

• 1:58:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, 95 Braveheart wins. Uh, then the nominees are Apollo 13, Babe, Il Postino, colon, The Postman, and Sense and Sensibility. Great movie.

• 1:58:13Amanda Dobbins?

  And Ang Lee is not nominated for Sense and Sensibility. I thought about I thought about Ang Lee and Sense and Sensibility.

• 1:58:19Amanda Dobbins?

  That director lineup is, yeah, because Mike Figgis gets in for Leaving Las Vegas and Tim Robbins gets in for Dead Man Walking and then, um, Babe.

• 1:58:24Sean Fennessey?

  Those aren't bad movies. You know what? Just just for Il Postino.

• 1:58:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:58:29Amanda Dobbins?

  There's no Sense and Sensibility.

• 1:58:30Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 1:58:32Speaker 05

  I prefer Heat.

• 1:58:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I would have also, I was kind of trying to give John Cazale.

• 1:58:36Speaker 07

  Supporting actor.

• 1:58:37Sean Fennessey?

  That's nice.

• 1:58:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Seventy-four was tough. Were you trying to do it for, I think I had it for Godfather Two. What were you trying to do?

• 1:58:43Speaker 07

  No, I can't do it for Godfather Two, but Dog Day Afternoon, maybe even Deer Hunter.

• 1:58:47Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good one.

• 1:58:48Speaker 07

  Yeah, I couldn't do it.

• 1:58:50Amanda Dobbins?

  David Lynch from All Hallen Drive is still on the board in 2001, which is sort of crazy.

• 1:58:54Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah, 2001's still there.

• 1:58:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it's still on the board.

• 1:58:57Sean Fennessey?

  Who won in 2001? Is that Ron Howard?

• 1:58:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, yes, for A Beautiful Mind.

• 1:59:00Amanda Dobbins?

  So if you get him in for Hall of Thirteen, then you fix all this.

• 1:59:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. 2017 is still on the board, which was just an incredible year. I mean, Shape of Water won, but that's Get Out, Call Me By Your Name, Lady Bird, Dunkirk, and Phantom Thread.

• 1:59:14Sean Fennessey?

  That falls into a really interesting category of, Shape of Water pretty much dominated that whole season. There was not really a sense that it wasn't gonna win.

• 1:59:22Speaker 05

  Hated that.

• 1:59:23Sean Fennessey?

  I think a lot of people, I don't, does anybody here really ride for Shape of Water?

• 1:59:28Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 1:59:28Sean Fennessey?

  We don't really love it, and yet there, I don't know that it was like unjust, because the Academy did want that.

• 1:59:36Speaker 07

  We were just talking about this, that it was like, on the East Coast, it was The Post, right? Everyone was like, The Post is gonna win.

• 1:59:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Super late.

• 1:59:43Speaker 07

  And then we started talking to people in LA, and they were like, no, Shape of Water. And I guess because it's about cinema in a sort of way, and it was just very.

• 1:59:51Amanda Dobbins?

  But if you said like, you gotta give it to Call Me By Your Name, Dunkirk, Lady Bird, or Get Out, like, or Phantom Thread, these five movies I love, I don't know which one I'm picking. Like, it's really hard.

• 1:59:59Sean Fennessey?

  They all would have been cool wins, too.

• 2:00:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, all of them would have been great wins.

• 2:00:02Sean Fennessey?

  Academy history, yeah.

• 2:00:04Amanda Dobbins?

  I went for Darkest Hour, like, I wouldn't give it to it, but there's just, that's a good lineup.

• 2:00:08Speaker 07

  Another Katie special, Darkest Hour.

• 2:00:10Speaker 05

  Darkest Hour is great. Oldman over Daniel Day-Lewis that year is weird.

• 2:00:14Speaker 07

  I think Willem Dafoe.

• 2:00:15Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, but he's the goat.

• 2:00:17Speaker 07

  I really wanted Willem Dafoe on The Florida Project that year. That was my, yeah, I know.

• 2:00:22Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:23Amanda Dobbins?

  2022 still on the board. I would have picked Todd Field for Tar, but because like, I feel bad taking it away from Michelle Yeoh. But when you're talking about controversial ones, like Blanchett over Michelle Yeoh, I just like, it's an Alzheimer.

• 2:00:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Then she'd have three.

• 2:00:38Speaker 05

  That was an early race.

• 2:00:39Amanda Dobbins?

  That's okay. She's really good.

• 2:00:40Amanda Dobbins?

  She is good.

• 2:00:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Or we can take it away. I don't even, what was Blue Dog?

• 2:00:42Sean Fennessey?

  Everything, everything all at once just overwhelmed.

• 2:00:44Amanda Dobbins?

  You can take it away.

• 2:00:45Speaker 05

  I mean, that was one of like, that got a little dirty after a while.

• 2:00:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, and then you could give it to Frances Ha.

• 2:00:52Speaker 05

  No, it didn't. Michelle, you're like, didn't she repost like a weird like?

• 2:00:55Sean Fennessey?

  She did. She broke the rules. That's right. She like reposted something that someone shared.

• 2:01:00Amanda Dobbins?

  These people, they can't handle social media. Like, there's just too many rules. Do we, I don't think we ever did 2013. I think we thought we were, and you were, you talked about Leo.

• 2:01:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, we didn't do it.

• 2:01:08Amanda Dobbins?

  And that's another one of my big ones I can't believe I didn't do, which is Tom Hanks and Captain Phillips, who didn't even get nominated.

• 2:01:13Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good snub. Yeah.

• 2:01:14Amanda Dobbins?

  One of the worst, crazy, because he got nominated for picture. I think Greengrass got in for director, and it just made no sense. It was an amazing performance.

• 2:01:21Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's the McConaughey year.

• 2:01:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:24Amanda Dobbins?

  That's also Frances Ha, which I just said in a side conversation to Joe.

• 2:01:28Amanda Dobbins?

  We were talking about Frances Ha.

• 2:01:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:29Speaker 05

  We didn't do 97, right?

• 2:01:32Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 2:01:32Speaker 05

  So that's Boogie Nights.

• 2:01:34Sean Fennessey?

  We needed like three more drafters for this episode.

• 2:01:36Speaker 05

  That's full mark. The Boogie Nights for the nominees.

• 2:01:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Nobody gave Stanley Kubrick an Oscar, right?

• 2:01:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Did we do 2001?

• 2:01:43Sean Fennessey?

  No, we didn't. Christopher 2001.

• 2:01:44Amanda Dobbins?

  As picture, but not.

• 2:01:45Sean Fennessey?

  Did he win in the Oscar for?

• 2:01:47Speaker 05

  Effects, I think.

• 2:01:48Sean Fennessey?

  But he didn't, he wasn't the producer of the film, right?

• 2:01:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know, but he does not have a directing Oscar.

• 2:01:53Sean Fennessey?

  That, that, I know, that, that.

• 2:01:54Amanda Dobbins?

  That's tough.

• 2:01:56Speaker 05

  From that same sort of genre, I think I had, did we do?

• 2:02:02Speaker 05

  Did we do 64?

• 2:02:05Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't think so.

• 2:02:06Speaker 05

  I would have done Sellers for winner.

• 2:02:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Strange Love.

• 2:02:09Speaker 05

  Um, Strange Love.

• 2:02:10Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Rex Harrison in My Fair Lady is rough man. Albert Finney, uh, an Oscar.

• 2:02:15Sean Fennessey?

  I just straight up, I, I almost went Strange Love over My Fair Lady, just in Best Picture winner snub. I feel like that would have been, would have been a good one. Also, no, did we do 94? We did 94?

• 2:02:26Amanda Dobbins?

  I did Hoop Dreams in 94.

• 2:02:27Sean Fennessey?

  Hoop Dreams, that's right, because Pulp Fiction over Forrest Gump.

• 2:02:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:29Sean Fennessey?

  Or Shawshank, if you like.

• 2:02:30Amanda Dobbins?

  I was expecting to play Tarantino for director or Pulp Fiction.

• 2:02:33Amanda Dobbins?

  At some point, but you're like double Stevie.

• 2:02:36Sean Fennessey?

  I continue to do.

• 2:02:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Do we do 2019?

• 2:02:39Sean Fennessey?

  We didn't.

• 2:02:40Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 2:02:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Would you do Jala?

• 2:02:41Amanda Dobbins?

  That's hard. That was another one where I was like, there's it's such a rich field, but also parasite. And bong winning. You don't want to undo. I can't undo the parasite year. Yeah.

• 2:02:52Sean Fennessey?

  That would have been an interesting split if they had gone Tarantino in one of those two.

• 2:02:57Amanda Dobbins?

  You would have gone into Sam Mendes for 1917, though. It would have all be furious.

• 2:03:01Sean Fennessey?

  Your dad is popping out there.

• 2:03:02Amanda Dobbins?

  No, but they would have. That was what the race was.

• 2:03:04Sean Fennessey?

  That is what the race was.

• 2:03:06Amanda Dobbins?

  My version of first man is Colin Farrell, Banshees of Inisherin.

• 2:03:10Amanda Dobbins?

  That's.

• 2:03:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, that's a good one. I really wanted that to happen.

• 2:03:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Who did he lose to?

• 2:03:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Something bad.

• 2:03:16Sean Fennessey?

  It's okay. He got every award for the Penguin.

• 2:03:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Did anyone get? Was Banshees 2019? 2022. Oh, okay. Wow. Then I don't remember.

• 2:03:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I had two 2024 ones on there and I didn't know if I wanted to go that recent, but I would have written for Marion Jean Baptiste and Hurtress, a huge best actress snub. And then also Nickel Boys for cinematography.

• 2:03:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that was Jomo Frey. That was a really surprising.

• 2:03:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Let me throw one more at you. Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross, Challengers.

• 2:03:43Sean Fennessey?

  Surprised you didn't pull that on your wildcard.

• 2:03:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, you know, I also had Daniel Lopaten for Marty Supreme in 2025. We just didn't get into the score category.

• 2:03:50Sean Fennessey?

  Too soon.

• 2:03:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Whatever. It's not too soon for me.

• 2:03:51Amanda Dobbins?

  We got Anya Morikoe. We got him fixed.

• 2:03:53Amanda Dobbins?

  I know my opinions the minute they happen.

• 2:03:58Speaker 05

  Mildly controversial, we didn't do 79. Would anybody take me going Roy Scheider over Dustin Hoffman for Kramer vs Kramer, Roy Scheider and All That Jazz?

• 2:04:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:04:07Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good take.

• 2:04:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Definitely.

• 2:04:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Hell, yeah.

• 2:04:09Sean Fennessey?

  I, I, I would have just taken either Breaking Away or Norma Rae out and put Alien in Best Picture. That was another serious consideration. No Alien in Best Picture.

• 2:04:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Or also Fosse for All That Jazz. Yeah, and director.

• 2:04:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, oh, that performance that we all love. Tough.

• 2:04:25Sean Fennessey?

  It's a bad one.

• 2:04:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, in 1987, I'd just like to give it to Broadcast News instead of Last Ever. It's just, that's.

• 2:04:32Amanda Dobbins?

  I really sat for me, but can I take away Cher's Oscar and give it to Holly Hunter? And I can't, I can't do it.

• 2:04:37Amanda Dobbins?

  You can't do it.

• 2:04:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, and I just can't. Listen.

• 2:04:41Sean Fennessey?

  Let me ask you like a point of order question. Do you think Sally Field should have two?

• 2:04:47Amanda Dobbins?

  But they like her. They really like her. They really do.

• 2:04:50Speaker 05

  I, my favorite one where I was like, I'm trying to wedge this in as a snub, but actually had a hard time making the argument to the, to some extent. It was 92. Did we just say, somebody just say 92? I mean, I know we picked 92, right?

• 2:05:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:05Speaker 05

  But Last Mohicans didn't get nominated for Best Picture. And that's Unforgiven, Crying Game, Few Good Men, Howard's End, Son of a Woman. I, I would make the argument probably taking Son of a Woman out.

• 2:05:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Did you see, did you see the Instagram clip of Peter Claffey of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms fame, saying that the Last Mohican score is his like amp up?

• 2:05:22Speaker 05

  Really?

• 2:05:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, great score.

• 2:05:24Speaker 05

  That should have been nominated.

• 2:05:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree, the score.

• 2:05:26Sean Fennessey?

  Who did that score?

• 2:05:27Speaker 05

  Trevor, what's his face? Trevor Horn?

• 2:05:30Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 2:05:30Speaker 05

  And somebody else too.

• 2:05:32Sean Fennessey?

  Trevor Horn, was he the loogie for the Minnesota Twins in 2013?

• 2:05:35Speaker 05

  No, he was like, it was like a guy who was in like a new wave group who then did like a, moved into soundtracks. And then I think Michael Mann like fired him and brought somebody else in.

• 2:05:44Sean Fennessey?

  Let's recap our picks. We had seven picks each. Who should go first? Since Joanna picked first, you go first.

• 2:05:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, great. Will you show me?

• 2:05:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:05:54Amanda Dobbins?

  So in Best Picture nominee snub, I picked Seven Samurai in 1956. In Best Picture nominee snub, 21st Century, I picked In the Mood for Love 2000. In Best Picture winner snub, I picked Mad Max: Free Road 2015. In Best Actor winner snub, I picked Harrison Ford in Witness 1985. In Best Actress winner snub, I picked Amy Adams in Arrival 2016. And in Best Director winner snub, I picked Alfred Hitchcock, Rebecca 1940. And in Wild Card, I picked Glenn Close, Dangerous Liaisons 1988. And I feel great.

• 2:06:24Sean Fennessey?

  Great job.

• 2:06:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Thanks.

• 2:06:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Line up.

• 2:06:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:06:26Sean Fennessey?

  Amanda.

• 2:06:26Amanda Dobbins?

  In Best Picture nominee snub, 20th Century, I have Bringing Up Baby, 1938. In Best Picture nominee snub, 21st Century, I have The Dark Knight, 2008. In Best Picture winner snub, I have This Social Network, 2010. In Best Actor winner snub, I have Denzel Washington for Malcolm X, 1992. In Best Actress winner snub, I have Diane Keaton, Something's Gotta Give, 2003. Best Director winner snub, Wes Anderson, The Grand Budapest Hotel, 2014. And in Wild Card, Network, Best Picture winner, 1976.

• 2:06:58Sean Fennessey?

  Great roster. CR.

• 2:07:00Speaker 05

  In Best Picture nominee snub 20th Century, I took 2001: A Space Odyssey from 1968. Best Picture nominee snub 21st Century, I took Children of Men from 2006. Best Picture winner snub, I took Goodfellas from 1990. Best Actor winner snub, Jeff Bridges, not nominated for The Big Lebowski in 1998. Best Actress winner snub, Betty Davis from All About Eve, 1950. Best Director winner snub, Peter Jackson, Two Towers, Domino Effect.

• 2:07:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:07:30Speaker 05

  Peter Weir. Wildcard, Ennio Morricone, Days of Heaven, Best Score, 1978. Also a Domino Effect one.

• 2:07:39Sean Fennessey?

  That's a great draft.

• 2:07:40Speaker 05

  Thanks.

• 2:07:40Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. In Best Picture nominee snub 20th Century, I took Singin' in the Rain from 1952. In Best Picture nominee snub 21st Century, I took The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo from 2011. In Best Picture winner snub, I took Brokeback Mountain, 2005. In Best Actor winner snub, I took Jimmy Stewart, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, 1939. In Best Actress winner snub, I took Ellen Burstyn in The Exorcist, 1973. In Best Director winner snub, I took Steven Spielberg for E.T. And in Wildcard, I took Close Encounters of the Third Kind as a Best Picture nominee snub, 1977. Katie, you're up.

• 2:08:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. In Best Picture nominee 20th Century, I have Do the Right Thing. Best Picture nominee 21st Century, First Man. Best Picture winner, Citizen Kane, 1941. Best Actor, Jack Nicholson, Chinatown, 1974. Best Actress, Kate Winslet, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind in 2004. Best Director, The Wachowskis for The Matrix in 1999. And then Wildcard is documentary feature, Hoop Dreams, in 1994.

• 2:08:40Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:08:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Good draft, Katie.

• 2:08:42Sean Fennessey?

  Pretty good draft, guys.

• 2:08:43Amanda Dobbins?

  I think I have 10 more of these.

• 2:08:45Sean Fennessey?

  Appreciate all your hard work.

• 2:08:46Amanda Dobbins?

  That was a cool idea. It was good.

• 2:08:48Speaker 05

  Way to go.

• 2:08:48Sean Fennessey?

  Thanks.

• 2:08:48Speaker 05

  Dungeon Master.

• 2:08:52Sean Fennessey?

  Who's gonna get really fucking reamed this year? Who's gonna be the person in this year's Oscars who are like, shit, we gotta draft this one. We do this again in 25 years.

• 2:09:00Amanda Dobbins?

  You know who I'm worried about is Jack Fisk from Marty Supreme. Have you guys talked about this on the show yet?

• 2:09:05Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 2:09:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Legend who has never won and did incredible work on Marty. Marty Supreme.

• 2:09:09Sean Fennessey?

  Have we talked about Jack Fisk? Yeah, he was a guest on the show.

• 2:09:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, that's right. Of course. Yeah, I interviewed him. He's like the nicest person I've ever talked to. Um, and Frankenstein just is kind of like hovering around. Is this big crafts happening?

• 2:09:19Sean Fennessey?

  I'm gonna be a fucking brat about that if that happens.

• 2:09:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I feel like Jack Fisk will be fine and we will be worried.

• 2:09:24Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Um, okay, now Amanda and I are gonna talk about Serat.

• 2:09:33Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, it's just us now. We dispensed with the drafters.

• 2:09:36Amanda Dobbins?

  And changed clothes.

• 2:09:37Sean Fennessey?

  We changed clothes. It's a different day. Let's just be honest, folks. Um, we're here to talk about Serat. Now, I've just completed an interview with Oliver LaChe, the writer and director of Serat. And my feelings are shifting on the film.

• 2:09:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:09:54Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, Oliver is a, was an incredible guest. Um, Jack Sanders said that was his favorite guest of all time.

• 2:10:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow, I'm so excited.

• 2:10:01Sean Fennessey?

  So, uh. Genuinely the best opening to an interview we have ever done.

• 2:10:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Don't say anymore.

• 2:10:07Sean Fennessey?

  We won't, I don't want to spoil it, but um, let's just, let's discuss Serat, his film. So, um, you know, he co-wrote it with Santiago Filol, and it really only stars one actor of note, Sergei Lopez, who's, you know, the rest of the actors in the film are non-professional actors who he scouted and found at raves. And the premise of the film is that this Sergei's character Luis is traveling through southern Morocco with his son Esteban. They're searching for his daughter who has been missing for five months. She was last seen at a dance festival in a desert. As they travel from party to party, they hear of a semi-mythical rave near the border of Mauritania. So they go on this kind of epic road trip, and the film kind of descends into madness from there.

• 2:10:51Sean Fennessey?

  This film premiered at Cannes last May, and I had a chance to see it over the summer. I have personally been quite surprised by the momentum it has picked up, not among cinephile crowds, where I think it is quite divisive, but amongst a slightly more normie award season academy. We talked on our shortlist episode about how it had been recognized in several categories there despite its. More unusual in nature. So you finally saw it?

• 2:11:20Amanda Dobbins?

  I did. And I thought I knew what the twist was, but I did not, which was good. So I went in pretty blind, which I hope other people will. And I kind of, I don't think you should listen to the interview if you haven't seen the film.

• 2:11:36Sean Fennessey?

  We didn't get into a lot of details, but I will say I'm putting this discussion and interview at the end of an episode that a lot of people will already dig because I think it's going to take time for some people to catch up to this. Maybe they can circle back to it if they haven't seen it.

• 2:11:48Amanda Dobbins?

  I'll speak broadly. I can spoil it in the first two minutes. There's a man in Eagles jersey at the rave in wherever they are.

• 2:11:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Morocco.

• 2:11:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Morocco. And I noticed it because my brain is diseased. That's how I'm living these days.

• 2:12:03Sean Fennessey?

  That was your trauma from this film?

• 2:12:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. I think that the first, like the big evil scene worked on me and didn't feel as manipulative as I think maybe you felt about it, or some, you know, some others have. And then as the film went on, there were, there were some other, I wasn't willing to go all the way with it.

• 2:12:28Sean Fennessey?

  So I think I land in a somewhat similar place. I received an email from a friend who was like, you have to talk to Oliver. And I'm not over the moon for Sirat, but I am kind of fascinated by it. And it is actually somewhat similar to me to how I feel about Wuthering Heights, which we talked about on last week's episode, where it's sort of like, this is undeniably got some juice. Like, there are a couple of moments that are unforgettable and burned into my mind. And I said that to Oliver. But I'm also trying to work through this idea of how was I being manipulated and what does it mean to be manipulated? What is the responsibility of cinema? That was a big part of the conversation that we were having. And based on his mission for what he's trying to do in this film, he clearly

• 2:13:08Sean Fennessey?

  succeeded because he did a few things that I was affected by, that I thought about a lot, that I still don't know if I think that they are just like merely provocation or communicating something more powerful. There were times when we were talking where I was confused by what he was saying about how he saw his film relative to what I saw. And we should say that several of the characters experienced like... Terribly violent.

• 2:13:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 2:13:33Sean Fennessey?

  And that the movie gets quite crazy at a few different moments. And it is otherwise much more of a sort of a road movie, where you've got this kind of band of people who are brought together on this, you know, these paired missions. One, you know, this family in search of their daughter. And then these ravers who are always in search of like the next rave, the next party, you know, the next step in the stage of life where you're sort of like evading a normal life and living this much more itinerant experience where you're finding the next party every day. And I thought the performances were pretty good. I think they're not asked to do a ton. They're more asked to be themselves. I think the music is obviously pretty transfixing and it gives the film a heartbeat.

• 2:14:17Sean Fennessey?

  The first shocking moment, which if you don't want the movie spoiled for you, don't listen anymore. But Esteban, the young boy who's with his father throughout the film, is playing on the side of a ledge when they're going across a kind of like Fitzcarraldo sorcerer style, you know.

• 2:14:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Like Mountain Pass?

• 2:14:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Mountain Pass, yeah.

• 2:14:41Sean Fennessey?

  And he's playing on the side of the ledge with his dog and his father tells him to get in the car.

• 2:14:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:46Sean Fennessey?

  So that he's not playing on the ledge. And he gets in the car and the car begins rolling backwards and it rolls off the mountain.

• 2:14:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 2:14:52Sean Fennessey?

  And Esteban falls to his death.

• 2:14:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 2:14:56Sean Fennessey?

  And up until this point, the film has a very, I'll say, European feel, which is that it takes, it's taking its time. It's a bit searching. Doesn't have what you would describe as like a driving plot.

• 2:15:08Amanda Dobbins?

  No, it does have a lot of driving. It's not not evocative of Mad Max Fury Road, just in the sense of like desert scenes, caravans and a group of characters who are more symbolic than they are like fleshed out people with a ton of dialogue.

• 2:15:25Sean Fennessey?

  And similarly, a world with people kind of on the outside edge of society, you know, people who are not. Part of the common power structure. That death fucked me up.

• 2:15:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:36Sean Fennessey?

  When I saw it and I was a little mad about it and I felt like it was a real poke in the chest.

• 2:15:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, it's not just the death. It is, it's the entire scene because it's, it's a long scene. A purposely constructed. And the minute that Esteban is asked to move from the ledge. You're like, oh no. You just like you, and you know, and you have to, that, that is an achievement of filmmaking.

• 2:16:01Sean Fennessey?

  It totally is.

• 2:16:02Amanda Dobbins?

  That it, it, it explains to you exactly what is going to happen and then tortures you throughout the rest of the scene until it does happen. And the way that it does it, it involves one of the other vehicles in the caravan being stuck. And these people are trying to get it moving and they have a moment of, you know, of triumph. They get something, you, you know, you think the peril is over here and then the peril is very quickly over there. And, but also it's a three minute scene that feels like 45 minutes. Because again, it communicates to you in really classical filmmaking style.

• 2:16:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:16:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Like what is going to happen in the worst possible way. I, I thought it was really effective. I, I was like, you got me and I'm, I'm pissed off.

• 2:16:45Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:45Amanda Dobbins?

  My husband watched Serat with me and then went to bed after that scene. He was like, I got it. I'm good. I'm going to bed.

• 2:16:52Sean Fennessey?

  I think so. A lot of people will have that reaction.

• 2:16:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:54Sean Fennessey?

  You know, I do think it is, um, there's a, there's a kind of purposeful, purposeful punishment. Oliver kept saying, you, you have to die. You have to die.

• 2:17:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:02Sean Fennessey?

  Like that was something, that's, that's an idea that he felt very strongly about. And I'll also note that he's on six, seven with long hair and strikingly beautiful and eloquent and an artist and a European man with a wonderful accent. And I look like a, a dead scarecrow next to him and it was just not a good look for me. Um, but I hope people will enjoy it. Uh, I think what happens next, the movie goes into like the land of the ecstatic. I think it kind of transforms from something that feels more grounded into a bit of a. Kind of like a negative Fantasia and of like destruction and and just when you think you're you've become free or punished for it and you know what's been sown in the land,

• 2:17:44Sean Fennessey?

  these kind of like tools of destruction that are all through these parts of the world will ultimately punish innocent people.

• 2:17:51Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, once the more things you add on to it, the harder it is for everything to to hold up, in my opinion. So by the, you know, by the time that, again, spoiler alert, the mines went off and I was like, oh, fine. You know, I was startled. It had the effective jumpscare quality and that, but I didn't feel as, I didn't even feel manipulated, if that makes sense. I didn't feel drawn in enough to then be like, oh, okay, well, now I'm really pissed off at you. I just kind of, yeah, things are getting out of hand.

• 2:18:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think that filmmaking in that final section with the landmines is very, is really well done physical filmmaking. You really do feel the boom and the crash and the sort of like the shock of the moments. But I similarly didn't have the same emotional thunderclap feeling that I had with Esteban's death. Still, accomplished, interesting movie.

• 2:18:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:50Sean Fennessey?

  Clearly a lot going on. He said that this movie's 20 years in the works. He's made three previous films. They all played a can, but they didn't really make their way to America the way that this one has. And I'm really, I'm intrigued by him. And I hope, I hope.

• 2:19:05Amanda Dobbins?

  This was a formative experience for you.

• 2:19:08Sean Fennessey?

  Well, we'll see. I mean, we'll see how much it changes me, you know? I think, like I said, he had, you're fond of saying that someone has power. It's undeniable that this man has power. And you'll be able to see it right now. Let's go to my conversation with Oliver Lachey.

• 2:19:28Sean Fennessey?

  Very happy to be here with Oliver Lachey. We're here to talk about Sirat. I know everyone's saying, "Where did this movie come from?" to you, but I want to know when it started. What happened? What was happening the day you started thinking about this movie? Sirat comes from... Ah!

• 2:19:45Sean Fennessey?

  I understand it. Yeah. Ah! Did you have a bad day? The wound. Yeah, yeah.

• 2:19:53Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, my creative process is really versatile, you know? I'm not going to the office to work, you know, to make a film about and with the history of the dialogue in with this filmmaker and this other filmmaker, you know? I mean, it's more...

• 2:20:13Sean Fennessey?

  I have images at the beginning, intentions, and my creative process is really related with my personal development process. So in a way, I always, in a consciente way, I'm like exploring regions of my being, we'll say. And I wanted to die. I wanted to die making the film, yeah. I wanted to...

• 2:20:39Sean Fennessey?

  I think when you watched Sirat, you died.

• 2:20:43Sean Fennessey?

  What was your experience, Sean? I felt a little violated, honestly. I did. I found it a little... Violated? Yeah, I found it really hard to take. And I mean that in a positive way, but I have some questions about that, but I want to wait for that for a second, for kind of how you maybe are worked with the audience or against the audience at times with our expectations. Not against. I'm trying to take care of the audience radically. That was the best way I found to take care of the spectators. That is proposing to a spectator a catharsis, you know? Cinema is a place for catharsis, a theater, you know? And I think we have to learn to die before dying. That was my intention also with the film.

• 2:21:26Speaker 07

  Film, I think people who are from western countries, we are escaping from death in a way. Before, we had a lot of ceremonials, a lot of rite of passage to

• 2:21:41Speaker 07

  meditate and experiment this. That is the best way to be more free and more emancipated.

• 2:21:48Sean Fennessey?

  So feeling that way, you wanted to put that feeling on screen specifically? Is that where that comes from? Or is it just you're trying to kind of like conjure a visual representation of that experience that you were having?

• 2:22:01Speaker 07

  I think that as a spectator, you, as I said, you die. I mean, you are confronted to your limits in a way, you know, you are on a subtle and inconscient way. When you watch Sirat, you you are confronted of your, can I say, smallness?

• 2:22:18Sean Fennessey?

  Uh huh, sure.

• 2:22:19Speaker 07

  And and you are you. And I think that when the film finished, I don't want to generalize. I mean, everybody feels it on a different way. But when the film finished, I, in a way, you are more alive. There is a feeling of a positive feeling, you know?

• 2:22:38Speaker 07

  This is the mystery of existence, Sean, you know? Sometimes, you know, it's through through pain that we feel freedom, you know? I mean, I'm, I don't get birthed, but look, the speech of experiences of women who get birthed. You know, it's really painful.

• 2:22:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:22:56Speaker 07

  They die.

• 2:22:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:22:57Speaker 07

  They die, but the level of transmission, the level of wisdom that life gives to give to them, you know, when they get birthed. And the energy, the the amount of love that they experiment, you know, when that happened finally, you know? It physically, it's that they die.

• 2:23:16Sean Fennessey?

  Uh huh.

• 2:23:16Speaker 07

  You know, but they want to do it again. You know, I mean, this is this is the what what Sirat explores in a way on a subtle and and inconscient way.

• 2:23:25Sean Fennessey?

  The risk of going to the end too quickly, when we're at the end of the film and we're on that that track and we're in the back of that truck. Are those characters reborn then in your mind?

• 2:23:39Speaker 07

  Totally.

• 2:23:41Speaker 07

  Sirat is a shock therapy.

• 2:23:46Speaker 07

  And yeah, there is a process of death and rebirth.

• 2:23:51Speaker 07

  You are transformed. I'm one of these people who feels that life takes care of you all the time, even the times that when life shakes you.

• 2:24:03Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm. Answer some practical questions about this film for me. It's been six years since your previous film. Were you working specifically on this in that the duration of that time?

• 2:24:15Speaker 07

  I mean, yes, I'm a slow filmmaker, but I'm also working in an organization where I live in the mountains in Galicia. I mean, I'm not just focused on cinema, you know, I'm also studying psychotherapy gestalt, you know, it takes me time and that is related also with the films I do. And but yes, working in cinema, I like to be everywhere, you know, I'm really an artisan, controlling all the aspects of decoration, you know, I mean, I it's not a work for me making a film, you know, it's not. And so I don't know how many years will it take me the next one.

• 2:24:58Sean Fennessey?

  With this one, how do you find the right places to go to shoot this film?

• 2:25:03Speaker 07

  So I was living in Morocco for 10 years, so I really know this country and the mountains of Morocco are mountains that really give me a lot of serenity, you know. You you're in front of the creation of the planet, you know, all this geology, you know, all the layers of, you know, I like this and the desert, the desert is a place really transcendental. You are obliged to look inside on a desert, you know, you there is no, you can't distract yourself, there is nothing where your eyes can be distracted, you know, you have to look to the sky or to look inside, that is the same thing.

• 2:25:45Sean Fennessey?

  The locations are fascinating, is the are the desert raves, are those based on real experiences that are happening? Are those events that are that are happening? Had you attended many of those before you put this on screen? What's can you tell me your experience doing that?

• 2:25:58Speaker 07

  Winters in Europe are tough, so and also because ravers, they are living, you know, in the trucks or they are living on, you know, cabins, you know, so. They and they are travelers, you know, I mean, raving is not just about partying, it's also about. Traveling and so they they usually are. They are really interested to meet other people, you know. In a way, also rave culture is a kind of neo tribalism. So, for example, in Morocco, they like to meet a lot of barbers and to be with them and to. And so so they escape from the winter and they fix their trucks.

• 2:26:43Speaker 07

  There are like three, four mechanicians in Morocco that are specialized to form trucks and.

• 2:26:51Speaker 07

  And they dance. In the desert or in.

• 2:26:57Speaker 07

  Locations that has something.

• 2:27:00Sean Fennessey?

  That way of living is extremely foreign to me. I could not imagine in my, you know, suburban existence, living in a major American city. With my family and not spending my time looking for that kind of exaltation, right? It seems like it's like a can an ongoing journey to find release, right? To find this like this catharsis that you're talking about. What do you think is is driving the people who live that way and then who you're portraying in the movie?

• 2:27:32Speaker 07

  Uh, I think that rave culture as art. As spirituality is going through your limits.

• 2:27:43Speaker 07

  So it's not for everybody.

• 2:27:45Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I I I really couldn't see it for myself. Um, how did you find the the actors? I need to.

• 2:27:51Speaker 07

  We did a um um while casting through raves and communities. So we were, we had a truck, we were like going. Looking for a family, you know, so we were picking people everywhere. I some of them, they are friends of mine, so. And we were looking for fragility. That's what we love of people. And I think spectators were fragile and we like to see fragility in front of the in the.

• 2:28:22Speaker 07

  In the image.

• 2:28:24Sean Fennessey?

  How do you know someone's going to be able to give a good performance if they're a non professional actor?

• 2:28:29Speaker 07

  Uh, if you are touched by a human being.

• 2:28:34Speaker 07

  A camera can capture this, can can capture the beauty, you know, after it depends on you.

• 2:28:42Sean Fennessey?

  I'm trust the people, I don't trust myself. Sometimes you have the ability to capture their soul, you know, their fragility, their a mystery, sometimes not. But it's a matter of time, you know, so that's why I I take so much time to make my films, because these people were afraid to be shoot, obviously. So they were coming, we spent a lot of time at home, we were going to the forest to work, we were watching films together, making rehearsals, and and that takes time. What films were you watching together? So we were watching a lot of American films.

• 2:29:23Sean Fennessey?

  Chulane Blacktop from Monty Hellman, masterpiece, Apocalypse Now, what else? Banishing Point, I'm Hazing Phil. Yes.

• 2:29:37Sean Fennessey?

  Easy Rider, we were watching, I remember we watched

• 2:29:45Sean Fennessey?

  Days of Heaven. Mm hmm, the Malik film, yeah. Yeah. A lot of road classics, American road classics. Yeah, I really, I'm

• 2:29:54Sean Fennessey?

  obviously, we were watching Tarkovsky's and Bresson films that are so important for me, but this film, I think that dialogues a lot with the American cinema from the seventies. This this movie that I I I told you, did you understood them? What they are talking about? I I think most of those movies are kind of not meant to be literally understood, but they're kind of metaphors for existentialist despair. You're always going towards something and it's still going to be painful at the end, to your point. And you feel the time when they were made. You feel you feel the society, you know, a seventies society that was crazy here, you know, all the polarity between, you know, the war in Vietnam.

• 2:30:40Speaker 07

  All the contracultural movements, use of psychedelics in psychology, you know, I mean,

• 2:30:47Speaker 07

  and you feel this energy on the films, you know, I mean, they were doing films like if it was the last one, you know?

• 2:30:54Sean Fennessey?

  When you're showing the films to the cast and the crew, are you saying to them, I want you to get into the mentality, the head state of these kinds of film? This is the kind of film we're making, or is it just, I want to share this with everyone tonight and this is a way we can unwind?

• 2:31:09Speaker 07

  When I talk to who?

• 2:31:10Sean Fennessey?

  When you're showing the film, when you're screening the film to anyone who's associated with the movie?

• 2:31:14Speaker 07

  Associated?

• 2:31:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:15Speaker 07

  And what is the question?

• 2:31:16Sean Fennessey?

  Well, did you, were you showing these movies specifically to other people who were in the film?

• 2:31:21Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were to the actors, yeah, we were, we were working on these films. I wanted them to, to feel what we, that our film is a gesture. And we wanted to dialogue also with our time, you know? We wanted to capture the fears and the dreams that we have nowadays. Hopefully, hopefully in 20 years, people will watch the Rata will say, oh, this film was talking about something from, from his time, you know?

• 2:31:49Sean Fennessey?

  How much of what you put on the page actually turned out in the film? Were you very close to what you wrote through?

• 2:31:55Speaker 07

  Yeah, totally. The script is 50 pages. It doesn't mean that it didn't took time to, to write. I mean, we were working for 10 years in the script. But for me, less pages, better script. Why? Because we have a radical trust in the tools, in the cinematic tools of expression, you know? Cinema has a particular way to evoke things, to say things. And so it's a balance, my scripts between

• 2:32:29Speaker 07

  dialogues and things that you want to say, but also images that wants to evoke things, you know? And yes, it was a really technique shooting to Hansberry, only seven weeks, 35 days. So you cannot improvise. We had a lot of sequences, action sequences, so that are difficult to shoot, so.

• 2:32:56Speaker 07

  Yeah. Sometimes orthodox script writers, they

• 2:33:02Sean Fennessey?

  They tell me that uh uh there is no script in my films. And I take this as a compliment, you know, because you have to hide the the proof of the crime, you know. What do you see the the um this mark? The fingerprints. The fingerprints when you make a when you commit a crime, you know, in art. It's you have to hide, you know, your intentions, so. Yeah, I think that you have an amazing ability to shock. You know, you really took my breath away a couple of times in the film in a way. And I see a lot of movies and I know a lot of where most movies are going, I feel like. And so maybe that's some of what you're describing, that there's this ability to.

• 2:33:43Sean Fennessey?

  I feel like part of the success of the film, from my perspective, is that it feels like you're finding it as it's going. Because the characters are finding, they're on this journey and they're finding something like life, sure. Like life, I mean, in life is like this. I mean, you start the day on a comedy and you finish on a drama. Or you are depressed and suddenly you get you fall in love, you know. And life never calls you and tells you, Sean, be careful tomorrow, you're gonna have a test, you know. And and we like crisis, we like crisis. Crisis is the way that life has to shake us, to make us grow, to make us look inside. And and this film has also the ability.

• 2:34:26Sean Fennessey?

  I'm I'm I have a lot of relation with psychoanalysts and psychotherapists. And and and the film makes something that that uh these people makes in therapy. That is to suspend your rational side of the brain, you know, in order that other level of perceptions emerge. Sirat is a film that you watch with the body, not with the brain. You feel it and and and and I but I think that this is the essence of cinema. You know, now, obviously, with all the series and all the influence that the television has in cinema.

• 2:35:10Sean Fennessey?

  There are a lot of films that they don't have not one image, not one that that penetrates you, that shakes you, that touch you, you know. But this is the essence of cinema. I mean, yesterday at the launch nominees. Yes. A lot of people tells me, wow, I, I, the images are still in me after three, four, three, four months watching the film or. But and I, and I like they say this to me, but come on, this is the essence of cinema. Every film has to provoke this on you. Mm hmm. You are going to a theater, you know, that is a kind of spaceship. Where, I mean, and we had all of us this experience going to a cinema and get transformed.

• 2:35:52Sean Fennessey?

  When you go outside the cinema, you feel, wow, you feel um a fever in your body, right? It's interesting that you say that too, and you use the word provoked, and I wanted to ask you about that. So some of the criticisms that come in on the film are that it is a provocation, that it is a manipulation almost of your expectations, of your feelings, but you don't. No, I didn't, no, I didn't read much these critics. Okay, well, I'm curious how you respond to hearing that. But that's your critic. No, no, no, this is something that I've read, but I, I did feel, I said violated because specifically watching the car go over the ledge, which I will, I will not, going off the mountain, I will not forget that. I, in, in, while watching the film for the first time, and I watched it for a second time last night.

• 2:36:38Sean Fennessey?

  I was struck, very, very hit hard by that, that image and that feeling in Sergei's, just his face looking over the edge of the mountain. But you know, that is a thing that it feels like a choice being made. Yeah. In a film that is otherwise, is kind of like, you know, you've really lulled us into this sense of this journey. You know, there's confusion and there's frustration on the journey, but it is not this violent feeling of shock and pain that you thrust into the middle of it. Yeah, I mean, I'm living on. Our world where innocent people dies, you know, and it's something that we have to be confronted, you know. Uh, as I say before, we have to learn to die before dying. I mean, if you want to be more free and more emancipated, if you want to suffer more.

• 2:37:22Sean Fennessey?

  It's good medicine, you know, uh, watching films like Sirat, I mean, it's.

• 2:37:29Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I think that um, more you um confront yourself to this. Um, less fears you are you are going to have. At the same time, I think that uh, thanks to cinema, we feel that we love these these people. We are not. Sirat doesn't have a skepticism or cynicism. I mean, we are shooting these people with a lot of love and this is obvious. I mean. The way they take care of the others, um, uh, the values they have, um, you know. Th- th- this is something that we have in western countries. We are too more worried about death.

• 2:38:10Sean Fennessey?

  On a traditional country or from a traditional or spiritual perspective, to die is not a problem. You die when you have to die. The question is, how do we die?

• 2:38:22Sean Fennessey?

  Are are we dying with dignity? Protecting our values or not? And the the the characters in Sirat, they they they they die with dignity, I think. And also, they provoke things on a subtle way, you know, I mean, um. Also, thanks to the use of the sound and the music, you know, I think that there is a balance. Obviously. You know, I I don't know if you've done a ceremony, it's painful. When you make a ceremony, you have to look inside and it's it's it's it's not not um cool sometimes. Yeah, yeah. The medicine, it's bitter, you know?

• 2:39:03Sean Fennessey?

  But we had the capacity to put a little bit of honey in the edge of the of the of the glass, so we you drink. The medicine of Sirat, thanks to, yeah, I think. I'm curious about the music and the sound design because it does, it's part of what lulls us a little bit into this sense of, I don't know, it's not what you expect from rave music, but there is a pulse, a heartbeat, a kind of like a consistent, almost calming feeling to the score at times as we're going through the film. And then it does ratchet up and we become more tense throughout it. But was all of the music written after the film was shot? Was there any conversation beforehand? How did that, how did that work?

• 2:39:47Sean Fennessey?

  So first, I was dancing these images that I had at the beginning. So music is really related from the, from the beginning, electronic music. The way I wrote, I write my scripts is really atmospheric, like music. And, and I always add links from music, you know, in my scripts. So, and I did a casting of musicians and Kandran Rai was perfect. I mean, he's extremely talented. And we had the chance to work one year before the starting of the shooting. I really wanted to have the mood of the film, you know, work before.

• 2:40:25Sean Fennessey?

  And, and that was the, the goal, you know, to, to make images that you could hear and to make music and sounds that you can watch, you know, to really build on this culture, really organic. I, I, I think Sirat is sorcery, a sorcery, you know, I mean, it's images, the proportions, it's, it's really alive, you know, the grain of the 16 millimeter, the distortion of the electronic music, you know. Yes, it was luxury to, to work in that way. Did you have, were you making images based on the music that you had heard that he had composed?

• 2:41:08Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, no, we didn't change much the script after having the, the music. We've, we were editing, we found obviously different connections between the images. Um, yes.

• 2:41:24Speaker 07

  The plan that we had with the music was at the beginning to feel something more cathartic, you know, the techno, the kick, you know, it's more physical. But slowly, the adventure, the film is becoming more metaphysical, you know. So we are more with sounds, more ethereal, transcendental, you know. We are approaching sacred music at the end of the film. So the ceremony is tough.

• 2:41:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:56Speaker 07

  But at the end, someone gives you an orange juice.

• 2:42:00Sean Fennessey?

  I feel like part of the reason why some Western audiences, who are very cynical, maybe struggle to confront some of the things that you're doing in the film, is because also there's just a lack of spirituality too in our culture, like a waning spirituality. And that also, you know, this movie is kind of communing with something bigger than itself, right?

• 2:42:18Speaker 07

  It's a mirror. And obviously, human beings, what we do when we don't want to watch inside, what we do is a projection. We project outside what we don't want to see. And listen, I think that Serat transcends the category of I like or I don't like. You know, as an author, when I even, when I listen to people who doesn't like it,

• 2:42:44Speaker 07

  the way they speak about it, I know we did well.

• 2:42:47Sean Fennessey?

  It still hit them. Yes, yes.

• 2:42:49Speaker 07

  It's

• 2:42:50Sean Fennessey?

  That is very interesting.

• 2:42:51Speaker 07

  It's healing something, it's provoking something, it's... But again, I'm on a good way, I mean,

• 2:43:00Speaker 07

  it's certified as a good medicine, by people who knows about it.

• 2:43:07Sean Fennessey?

  Let me ask you a simple question. There's a rising trend in movies in the last few years of filmmakers waiting until long into the film to reveal the title of the film, the title card of the film. You wait thirty-two minutes before saying, "This is Serat."

• 2:43:21Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 2:43:22Sean Fennessey?

  Why do you do that? What is the intention there?

• 2:43:24Speaker 07

  No, there is no intention, you know, I don't work all the time. I'm a thinker, as you see, but I'm not work, I don't put

• 2:43:34Sean Fennessey?

  My head everywhere when I'm working making films, you know, I I I trust my taste. You know, if it's tasty, I'm going in a good direction because the taste is really related with your inconstant. Hmm. So, you know, that sequence, we come from the Quran and we go to the techno. That sequence is really sensorial, you know, and we are feeling a lot of things. Uh, it's a it's a sequence where they desert on a way, you know, they are on the road and they go to the desert, you know. And the title is like, you have a feeling of that venture starts, let's go. That's exactly.

• 2:44:17Sean Fennessey?

  And with the speed, you know, we we you feel, okay, these people are going to a transcendental trip. Hmm, I like that a lot. How do you think about building and releasing tension in the story? Are you thinking strategically? Are you thinking emotionally, you know, is it because the film has been compared to some of the movies that you talked about? The film that I see it compared to the most often is Sorcerer. I don't know if that's a movie that you had watched in preparation for this. But, you know, those are movies that are really kind of ramping things up and getting everybody very involved. And then there's a big release and then we go to the next episode, so to speak, in the film. Are you thinking that much like a diagram when you're working on it? Yeah, we we we we, me and Santiago Fijol, I work with him.

• 2:45:02Sean Fennessey?

  We think in our films like operas. Hmm. And so we are thinking on the energy, you know, of the sequences and and so how to go to the next block. I mean, it's it's something alive, a film, you know, it's um. You want to build a kind of line that is tense, ready to, you know, and we didn't want it to make a long film. I had I had two and a half hours of. A cut? Yeah, a cut, but we wanted, we really wanted to to have more tension, you know, and more um.

• 2:45:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's so that this this ceremony, it's it's intense, so longer could be bad. Yeah, I I think it's where where it is is very effective. What um, what do you make of how the movie's been received? Because, you know, you you've brought many films to Cannes in the past. You know, you you won a prize there this year. But the the film is really connected with people in in the United States and and in a way that I would not have expected. I saw it over the summer and Thank you. Uh, I liked it, but I I I think I doubted maybe just the tastes of the the common awards voter. Um, you know, we'll see how much audiences will get invested in it.

• 2:46:23Sean Fennessey?

  But it is that thing that you were describing of like, people don't forget the images, you know, and it it makes an impression in a way that some films just kind of wash away quickly. Are you surprised that it is penetrated this way? Obviously, you are surprised because even if your intention is this, you never know. But we radically trust on spectators. We radically trust on the relation between an image, sound, and the body of the spectator. And we and we radically trust on theaters. Mm hmm. The combination of these three things makes makes, I mean, we are cinephile. We had, we felt this, you know, uh, with the films from the masters.

• 2:47:04Sean Fennessey?

  But you never know, I did also the film with a, I mean, I wanted to make a popular film. Hmm. You know, that's we, that's that's the honey, you know, in the in the edge of the, you know, the genre. We were studying these films, you know, like, why what? Well, why did you want to make a popular film? Because we want to serve, because we want to make, I mean, I don't, I'm not interested. It's my fourth film, I all the films goes to Cannes and get awarded there. But I'm not interested to be on a kind of scene, close scene, you know? I mean, to make a film is something really extreme, so and so, I mean, obviously, you want, it's part of a mission, you know? Obviously, there is also an erotic side, you know?

• 2:47:47Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, you are looking for love, you but there is, it's, we really want to,

• 2:47:55Sean Fennessey?

  we want to wake up us and the spectator too, you know, making making this. We want to elevate the level of conscience. We want Want to heal. I think cinema can heal the collective imaginary, you know. We are on a moment with a lot of fears. That's the problem in our society, amount of fears. Everybody has fears and everybody is suffering. There is a collective wound and it's good that cinema heals slowly this this one. And I think that on a subtle way, Sirat makes it. Your sincerity is bracing. I'm not used to engaging with this so directly if I'm being totally honest with you. Do you know, do you know what you're doing next? Have you started writing? I wanted to say also that we are talking about life and death, you know.

• 2:48:40Sean Fennessey?

  We are talking about family. We are not talking about, I don't like this expression. I mean, we evoke these things, you feel these things, and that's why it's connecting. In France, it's the, we did eight hundred thousand spectators, you know. And in Spain, half million. I mean, it's, yeah, the film, people, I think people are tired to watch the same films. You know, and and this is the future of cinema, you know, to, I'm not saying films like Sirat, but to remember people that theater is a place for transformation, you know. I wanted to add something because audiences are really important for me. Also, I wanted to to dialogue with young audiences.

• 2:49:26Sean Fennessey?

  You know, I was twenty years old and I was totally lost. And cinema art was was something that really connects me, you know, war me. And so I wanted to do the same and and we are doing this. We are connecting with these audiences and I'm so happy for it.

• 2:49:47Sean Fennessey?

  It's amazing. We end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers, what is the last great thing they have seen? Have you seen anything that has moved you? So I watched the the film from Jafar Panahi. It was just an accident. And I just watched it. Three days ago, and I really loved it. He's one of the contenders. I won't say content because everybody wins, you know. You're both in the in the race for best international feature. Race, I mean, whatever. We are sharing a beautiful trip and we are winners, all of us. What did you like about the film? So I like it because because the film has a lot of mercy.

• 2:50:29Sean Fennessey?

  On a moment that it's really necessary to understand that everybody are suffering, that people who provoke suffering is because they are suffering. They suffer. You know, it's a film in Iran. You will see someone who he's, how can, you will see that the guy who torture and the guy who is tortured. And I mean, it's, it's, it's, we have to give good news. We are on a moment that filmmakers, we have to do to give good news and to

• 2:51:10Sean Fennessey?

  on a moment that, you know, we are is necessary, you know, love and light. Oliver, thanks for doing the show. Thank you. Very kind.

• 2:51:23Sean Fennessey?

  Thank you to Joanna Robinson. Thank you to Katie Rich. Thank you to the very striking Oliver Lachey. Thanks to CR.

• 2:51:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:30Sean Fennessey?

  Our homie. Thanks to all the real Oscar heads out there who felt seen during that draft.

• 2:51:35Amanda Dobbins?

  The feedback's gonna be good.

• 2:51:37Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, it always is. Have we have we done a bad episode yet?

• 2:51:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:41Sean Fennessey?

  Have we ever aired?

• 2:51:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Everyone agrees.

• 2:51:44Sean Fennessey?

  This was a three hour episode. Do you feel good about that?

• 2:51:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Apparently people only complain when the episodes are too short. I don't hear any of the complaints, so I would never know.

• 2:51:52Sean Fennessey?

  Why? Is that because you're deaf? What's the issue?

• 2:51:56Amanda Dobbins?

  To feedback.

• 2:51:57Sean Fennessey?

  Later this week, we will we'll be returning to garbage crime. Ciara and I, we have a we have a text to examine in Crime 101. And we will be looking at it. And I think what we're gonna do is the post-heat crime movie. Every movie that has heat in it?

• 2:52:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Hmm. This is, I'm looking forward to listening to this.

• 2:52:17Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 2:52:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I will see Crime 101 on my own time and then probably get a laser on my face.

• 2:52:22Sean Fennessey?

  Very cool. Well, enjoy your week off and we'll see you later this week.

• 2:52:47Speaker 05

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• 2:53:14Speaker 07

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