Ellen Pompeo: Pick Me, Choose Me, Pay Me More

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Ellen Pompeo. Ellen discusses all things Grey’s Anatomy and reveals her take on some of Meredith’s most iconic moments and dating disasters. She also opens up about her salary negotiation, becoming the highest paid woman on TV, knowing her worth, and overcoming double standards. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:44Alex Cooper?

  Even as online, even as an online student, you'll have real support from real people like admission counselors, instructors, and ride or die academic advisors, all genuinely cheering you on every step of the way. So Daddy gang, if you're like, where, where should I go? Where, where, where is it? You know your answer now. Getting your degree online doesn't have to mean doing it alone. Start yours at snhu.edu/callherdaddy. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. Make their holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry. I feel like the best gifts are always the ones that feel really personal, right? Like, anyone can buy you something nice,

• 1:28Alex Cooper?

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• 2:10Alex Cooper?

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• 2:53Alex Cooper?

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• 3:12Alex Cooper?

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 3:21Alex Cooper?

  Ellen Pompeo, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 3:25Alex Cooper?

  I was just saying this to someone before you got here. I have interviewed so many people in my career now. Hands down, I have never gotten starstruck. I'm a little starstruck right now. I am a huge fan, huge.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. I'm a fan of yours too.

• 3:42Alex Cooper?

  Thank you. Your daughter is here today.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  She is.

• 3:45Alex Cooper?

  She is in the Daddy Gang. You have to just lightly tell the story of how this came to be because I am, I love her right now. I'm like, you are an OG. Thank you for getting your mom on the show right now. Tell us everything.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  Okay, so I was driving and sometimes she's in the car and I'll have her look at my messages when they come through because I can't look when I'm driving. So she says, oh, you got an email from Lead, my publicist. And mom, mom, you got invited on Call Her Daddy. And I was like, I did? And she said, yeah. I said, well, well, I can't, I can't, I can't do that because, because the Daddy Gang doesn't know who I am because I'm like 105 and.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  You know, and so, and so she was like, Mom, are you kidding me right now? First of all, Alex follows you on Instagram, Mom. She's a fan. She watches Grey's Anatomy. She loves you. You're doing this. And of course, like every mother with a 15 year old, whatever they say, I do. So I was like, oh, really? She follows me? That's so cool. I'm cool. I was, I felt so cool. So I was like, let's do it. Let's do it. And she was like, I'm responding to your publicist and I'm letting them know. And so she did, and then they said, Stella, you're hired.

• 4:57Alex Cooper?

  Stella walks in here and her confidence, she literally just said to me right before, she's like, I responded to the publicist. I told her we're doing it. I'm like, you are such a mini of your mom. That is like, she's, her energy was amazing. I'm so grateful to her. I'm so happy we're here. Um, okay. Are you a strict parent? Or like, how, what's the vibe? Are they sneaking out? Are they not sneaking out? How's it going?

• 5:18Speaker 01

  They are not sneaking out. I will break their fingers. I am very strict. I'm super intense. I'm a Scorpio.

• 5:27Alex Cooper?

  How would you describe yourself in three words?

• 5:30Speaker 01

  I think bossy, empathetic and passionate.

• 5:36Alex Cooper?

  You grew up outside of Boston, right?

• 5:37Speaker 01

  I did.

• 5:38Alex Cooper?

  Do you still have any of that Boston accent? Can you bring it back?

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Wait, are you kidding me? You can't hear it?

• 5:44Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Have you ever spent any time in Boston?

• 5:46Alex Cooper?

  Yes, I went to college. They're, my mom's from Boston.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Stop it. Where is she from? LOL.

• 5:50Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Wait, where did you go to college?

• 5:52Alex Cooper?

  Boston University.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Good for you.

• 5:54Alex Cooper?

  So pack the cab in the hot of the yard.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Pack the cab. I didn't go to university. I was working at fucking Dunkin' Donuts, hon.

• 6:01Alex Cooper?

  I love that for you.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Um, yes, I have, and my husband's from Boston also, so.

• 6:05Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  I'm constantly trying to not sound like I have a Boston accent.

• 6:10Alex Cooper?

  But if you needed to, you could pull it out.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Oh, it's, it's, I always feel like it's there. I hear it, but you may not hear it as much, but I could pull it out in two seconds.

• 6:19Alex Cooper?

  Okay, maybe it'll come out today. Who is the most famous person in your phone?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Ooh, ooh, that's a good question. Uh, DiCaprio?

• 6:33Alex Cooper?

  The way you just said that, even like, just like, not even, you're not even sure, you're like, maybe DiCaprio?

• 6:41Speaker 01

  I mean, he's pretty iconic.

• 6:43Alex Cooper?

  Just a little bit.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, but his dad is in my phone, too. And listen, the man, the myth, the legend, George is where Leo came from. So in my opinion, you know, no diss to Leo. He knows I love him, but George is the real OG.

• 6:58Alex Cooper?

  I'm hearing you say the name George just literally brought me back to like, season one, two, three, four. Okay, we're gonna get there. Your fans are obviously so diehard. And by fans, I mean, me literally sitting in front of you right now. What is the craziest fan interaction you've ever had?

• 7:16Speaker 01

  You know, I, it's, I don't think I've had like, any really crazy, inappropriate ones. But they're all pretty impressive when they say, you know, I'm a pediatric oncologist because of you, or I'm a pediatric neurosurgeon because of you. You know, there's a lot of people that have gone into medical careers, which, you know, pediatric oncology, I mean, are you kidding me? That's like, how do you do that every day? If that's truly God's work. So I think, I've never gotten like a weird, I've never gotten any weirdos.

• 7:49Alex Cooper?

  No more like inspiring.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:51Alex Cooper?

  Do people see you on the street and call you Meredith?

• 7:54Speaker 01

  All the time. Yeah. Not so much in LA. I think LA, everyone's used to actors. You know, it's, it's more other places.

• 8:02Alex Cooper?

  What is the wildest rumor you've ever heard about yourself?

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Oh, that's super easy. There was like this ridiculous, like I had six toes or some shit like that. It was like, yo, tabloids used to be so crazy. You, listen, you ladies have it easy because back before the phones and Instagram and TikTok and all this new media, there used to be tabloids. There was 50 of them and they would just write the craziest shit. And that was one of the craziest things that like, I had six toes, which I actually have 10 toes, but I think they meant I had six toes on one foot.

• 8:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, obviously Grey's Anatomy is everyone's go to comfort show. What is yours?

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Well, so I think Love Island right now.

• 8:55Alex Cooper?

  U S or U K?

• 8:56Speaker 01

  It's wait, it's U S.

• 8:58Alex Cooper?

  U S.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  But they're on an island, not in the United States.

• 9:01Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, but they're like, it's either the U S version or the U K version.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, okay.

• 9:04Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, you're you're U S.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:06Alex Cooper?

  You like Love Island.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Well, I watch it with Stella. Listen, I'm very critical. I talk a lot of shit while I'm watching Love Island. I talk mad shit. No one talks more shit than me watching Love Island, but I do watch it. It's me and Stella's. It's, it's, you know, what we do.

• 9:21Alex Cooper?

  It's your thing.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:22Alex Cooper?

  I mean, it's like, you gotta be dedicated. There's so many episodes. It's like, before you know it, you've like missed on six episodes because like a bunch come out every single day when it starts going out. Like, do you watch them in bulk?

• 9:33Speaker 01

  No, like, how do they film so many? Yeah, like, there's like forty seven episodes. Now, I've only ever watched, I think, one season, right?

• 9:40Alex Cooper?

  Yes, yeah, yeah.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Serena and Cordell. That's my season. Those are my peeps. Love them. Um, literally want to get invited to their wedding.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  They're so adorable, but what, but yeah, like forty seven episodes. What? How do you film forty seven episodes? It literally must just be like two hour blocks of a fourteen hour day.

• 10:02Alex Cooper?

  It's so entertaining. I, I also was addicted. I interviewed Leah and Rob from that season and it was just like the biggest thing ever. I'm like, Love Island, people go hard, but clearly we know because you're sitting right here. Um, okay, growing up, my mom and I had a ritual. We would eat dinner together. We would turn on grays. We would watch until our eyes hurt and then we would force ourselves to go to bed. How does it make you feel knowing the way that that show has just like impacted so many people's lives? Whether it's bringing people together, keeping people comforted when they are lonely and they're alone? Whether it's inspired them to go get a job in that field? Like, how does it make you feel?

• 10:47Speaker 01

  I think it sort of justifies for me, you know, why I've done it for so long. Because, you know, as actor, as an actor, you say you, you want to touch people and you want to move people, right? And I think everybody wants to be impactful in their life. Everybody wants to be seen, heard and have an impact and sort of lead this planet.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Feeling like I did something worthwhile. And I think if I've been a part of something that brings people together, then you know, that that sort of legitimizes it for me because as an artist, you know, it isn't, it isn't the most normal path, right? All actors, you want to chase the trophies. You want to chase being relevant. You want to chase the new sexy, hot, shiny thing and work with this director and that director. And I didn't choose that for several reasons. But the fact that I didn't, you know, it's always in the back of your mind, like, what, what would have happened if I didn't do this? Much later on, you sort of feel, you understand it now. I mean, I've had a really full home

• 11:53Speaker 01

  life as an actor, which is something that I probably wouldn't have normally been able to do if I, if I had taken a different, more creative path. So, but it makes, to answer your question, it, it makes me feel like I've really done something as commercial as it is, and perhaps as uncreative as it may be for my field. I've touched a lot of people and moved a lot of people and inspired a lot of people. And that's more than a lot of people in this business can say.

• 12:24Alex Cooper?

  And I think what you've done, every single person watching this is going to be like, oh, she's the fucking best. She's the fucking best. She has been there on my TV since I can remember, and I love her. And I think in some capacity, it's interesting to look at actors and it's like, is it for your own ego? Or if you just love what you're doing and it's fun, like, isn't that enough? But I, I love what you're saying is like, this afforded me what I wanted, which was, yes, my career and I loved it, but I also love my family. Because right, you, you filmed a lot in LA, right?

• 12:57Speaker 01

  All of it, yeah.

• 12:58Alex Cooper?

  So that's what allowed you to have this steady lifestyle.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:01Alex Cooper?

  While also being able to be a mother and to be a wife and to be a friend, while simultaneously having a very successful career that is very public, but comparatively, you're not flying across the world to Serbia and filming a movie.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  And different things work for different people, right? You know, at a certain point, you know, I, I Had a choice to sort of finish my contract or stay. And at the age I was, I was like, oh, well, I'll be 40 when my first contract is up. I better resign and take this money because you know, they offer you, if you resign, we'll give you this giant raise. So I thought back then, 20 years ago, 40, women at 40, it's over. That's a wrap, honey. So I was like, oh, I better sign and I better, I better do this because this is the most money I'm ever going to make and the most opportunity I'm ever going to get. And women in this industry are so incredible because look at how far we've come and every

• 14:00Speaker 01

  little bit matters, right? But we all collectively push this giant boulder up a hill and we've gotten it to a really good place where here I am at 55 years old, I just turned 55 last month, you know, and, and, and I'm getting a whole second chapter here after this with this new show. So, um, I think that, you know, it's, it's different for different people and also being raised in Boston and growing up the way I grew up, which was pretty intense. For me, I became aware at a very early age that people with money had power.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  And I didn't have any power as a young woman and I didn't like the way that felt. And I think part of that is just my personality. It's not all your environment. It's part of it is just my personality. And, and I would watch people that, men, all men, who had a lot of money and a lot of power.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  I, I looked up to them and thought they were incredibly cool and they were all really bad guys. They were all mafia guys and really bad people. Super nice to me, just like Goodfellas. They were great to all of us, but really they weren't probably the best guys and I know that now. But they were the ones who had all the power and their wives and girlfriends wore fur coats and, and, and people literally the sea parted when they walked through and they just had this command. And that to me was like, they had it. They had stature, they had money, they had power. So I equated money with power very early on. And as a woman, I'm sure you know.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  How freeing it feels to have financial independence because you don't have to be with any man you don't want to be with. You get to choose what man you want to be with because you want to be with him. And the day you decide you didn't want to be with him, if that were to ever happen, which it won't, you know, you can walk out the door. I mean, you know, for women, financial freedom is true independence. And those little patriarchal bitches that, you know, are shivering in their panties right now because I can't, I just cannot. To be, to be financially independent to me is, is what makes me

• 16:24Speaker 01

  the happiest, me feel the most free. I don't ever have to do anything I don't want to do.

• 16:28Alex Cooper?

  It's, I love you saying that because I do think there is a feeling for women where when you don't have the money, you still think, well, is it, is it the money? Or do I need to be close to a powerful man? And it's hard to separate. But once you get there, you're like, oh, I don't need fucking jack shit. Get away from me. But it takes you climbing the ladder and interacting with the patriarchy and the misogyny and experiencing it all to now be sitting where you're saying, like you're sitting here and just being like, I'm good.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Wait, but hold up.

• 17:02Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  I'm not even mad at you have to be next to a powerful man. Go ahead, get next to him and use him to level up. Just step right on him and just level up. Don't stay under him. If you do what you have to do, girl, use him, get right next to him, pick his pockets and keep it moving. It's okay. You know, and I'm not mad at, at any, you know, woman who does whatever she can to get where she needs to go.

• 17:36Alex Cooper?

  I agree.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  Just get there and keep it moving. You know, don't be in an apron, cutting his meat, honey.

• 17:47Alex Cooper?

  Period.

• 18:04Alex Cooper?

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• 18:49Alex Cooper?

  SoFi, get your money right. This is a paid advertisement by SoFi Technologies and is not intended to be financial advice. Daddy gang, did you know the average person has to send out 51 resumes just to try to land a job? It is insane and it's a lot of work. But honestly, I believe that, right? I remember when I got my first job out of college, I literally spent months applying and applying and applying and then applying. And the worst part is you can spend all this time finding the right role, fixing your resume, writing the application, and then you might not even hear back. Right? And it's so frustrating because you're like, okay, I know I would be so great for this job,

• 19:32Alex Cooper?

  but how do I actually get them to even notice me? That is where ZipRecruiter comes in, my friends. Okay, ZipRecruiter matches you up with the right job in minutes. And their new feature even lets your application be seen first by employers. You can try it out by going to ziprecruiter.com/daddy. It is such a game changer, guys. When you apply for a job, you can be seen first. Just tell the employer why you're interested in the role and your application jumps to the top of their list, no matter where you are in your career. Your journey, make your application be seen first only on ZipRecruiter. Try it out now by going to this exclusive web address,

• 20:13Alex Cooper?

  ziprecruiter.com/daddy. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com/daddy. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. I always think it is so important to find time to take care of myself because I think self-care for me, a lot of times, is getting some alone time, even if it's just go on a 10-minute walk outside. Self-care can obviously look different at different stages of life, and the ways that we practice it often evolve over time. But one possible way to take care of yourself is through therapy. Therapy with BetterHelp, one of the leading online therapy platforms, can be a space to prioritize your mental health, reflect on where you are, and check in with yourself. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp has served millions of people globally.

• 20:57Alex Cooper?

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• 21:38Alex Cooper?

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• 22:22Alex Cooper?

  I personally have this fragrance, and I will say, My favorite thing, although yes, I love my husband thinking I smell good. There is nothing better when women or your girlfriends compliment you. And every single time I have worn this fragrance, my girlfriends are like, no, what are you wearing? Give it to me right now. That smells so freaking good. And Matt is obsessed with it. I'm always looking for something that has a fresh citrus floral scent, but it needs to still be that perfect balance of not overpowering, but still bold. And this has exactly that. So Daddy Gang, if you want to try it out, shop now at Sephora. Let's go back for a second to your agent first told you about Grays.

• 23:07Alex Cooper?

  You weren't really into it. What were your hesitations about doing the show to begin with? And where were you at your career and financially when you were trying to make this decision? Should I take Grays Mad at Me and should I not?

• 23:18Speaker 01

  I was broke. I had done a movie with Jake Gyllenhaal called Moonlight Mile. And it got like all this buzz. People saw it and was like, this is going to be an Oscar movie. You're going to be nominated for an Oscar. This is crazy. And I really didn't know what I was doing at that point. It was my first movie. I was terrified. And before it came out, I got all this attention from all these people were calling me. All these big producers, all these big directors were calling me. And we thought this was going to be some big deal. It ended up, the studio didn't actually market the movie because they thought the movie was so sad. They didn't really know what to do with it or how to market it. So they built it all up in my mind and were like, this performance is incredible.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  And this is going to happen and that's going to happen. And CAA came around and the publicists and the lawyers and everybody comes around. And then the movie came out and kind of like, it was in five theaters. So it was like, wait, what? And then I, you know, I chugged along. I was trying to be in good movies with great directors, but they were only really small parts. So I kept doing those. I kept getting like sort of cut out of those.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  And then I had no money left. And so this came along and.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  I was like, ah, I don't want to be on a TV show. Like, I'm trying to be in these movies. And I had all these people call me and tell me how amazing I am and I should stay on this track. Why are you trying to derail me and put me over here? And my agent said, well, it's just a TV pilot and these things never go. So you can make a bunch of money with the TV pilot and then you'll be unemployed again in exactly 42 days. So, uh, so I, so I just did it, not, not knowing, you know, and then the pilot got picked up and then we went back to shoot season one and

• 25:04Alex Cooper?

  What was your first impression of Shonda Rhimes?

• 25:07Speaker 01

  I had lunch with Shonda at R I P Barney's. Remember Barney's?

• 25:11Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Um, I had lunch with her. They said, we want you to go meet this person. And to be honest, this, the, it was called the Untitled Shonda Rhimes Project at that, at that point. I hadn't been reading any scripts that would, that I would have been the main character. I was always the girlfriend. You know, I was some side chick down an alley in one scene in these great movies. You know what I mean? There was nothing for me to really do. But because I was all, I had a hard on for the director or, you know, it's this director and this big movie stars in it and, you know, whatever. And listen, some of those movies are great. I was in Catch Me If You Can with Leo and like Spielberg directed that and

• 25:56Speaker 01

  that was amazing. Um, and I loved those guys and I'm so grateful for that opportunity. So not to diss all of it, but I didn't have much to do in those movies. And, and Shonda's script was really the first thing that was like, oh, you're the center, you're the lead and you're playing a surgeon, a smart character, a working woman who's trying to figure it out. And I was like, wow, who is this woman? And then I went and met her and had lunch and I, and I loved her. I mean, it's pretty, right when you speak to her right away, it's obvious how smart she is.

• 26:29Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. I can imagine the electricity in the room when you're with someone like that, that is that smart and talented. It, I feel like when I'm around smart women, it's inspiring and you want to work harder. Um, and it's motivating. Like, what do you think her best quality as a boss was and is?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Her best quality as a boss is, that's so easy to answer. When you tell her you're pregnant or you're having a baby, She literally like sounds the bell, the confetti comes down. How many days do you need off? What can we do for you? How do we make this easier for you? How do we get you paid and keep your job? Like you, we're gonna write your scenes and you only have to work one day a week. I mean, she's extraordinary in that way. Back to my earlier point of being able to have this amazing home life. Shonda is a big family person. She has a big family herself. You know, she's always with her parents and her sisters and she really celebrates women going on a fertility journey.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  And, uh, you know, whether biological, non-biological, you know, I had my second two children via surrogate. And, uh, and she's just a really big supporter of women being able to work and have families. And I don't think there's many people in this town who, who do that.

• 27:51Alex Cooper?

  I don't have kids, but it's not lost on me that like, I'm at that point where I'm thinking about like, what is that next step for me? And I've literally been at dinners, Ellen, like in Hollywood and people have even said to me like, oh, just wait a few more years because you know what happens when you have kids. Like it's gonna all change for you as my husband's fucking sitting right next to me and I'm like, and for him too? Or just, no, just me, just me. I'm gonna become the mom and the damaged goods and I'm not as good and I'm not as, and it's just, you feel the tone in the way that people speak. And so to have someone that is advocating for you,

• 28:36Alex Cooper?

  I bet there's gonna be so many women that listen to this being like, oh, I fucking wish my boss would do that shit. And that should be a prerequisite standard for the way that women are treated. Not even in this industry, but in every single field, whatever you're doing for your job. Like that's how we keep this fucking world moving is we are making the next generation. So support us in that journey.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  100%, but people who, who judge that and make those very ignorant comments.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  They lack wisdom and they lack intuition and they lack magic. And Shonda is magic. We know that.

• 29:16Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, we do.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  And you know, the truth is, and she has even famously said this.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  At work, I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent at work when I have kids at home. I'm absolutely not. You cannot be a mother and have children and give a hundred percent to your job. You can't because there's a part of you that somewhere else you split into different pieces. You're no longer just you. You split into different pieces. And you know what that does? It makes you more soulful. It makes you richer. It makes you funnier. It makes you feel more. It makes you more empathetic. It makes you angrier. It gives you this range of emotions that you can't even imagine having without this person.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  You will be yourself times a thousand. You will just be a better version of yourself. And it doesn't matter that you can't give a hundred percent to this. Because by the way, as women, we evolve anyway. And you're gonna, whether you, I'm not saying kids is the only path. Plenty of people don't want to have kids and that's great for them. But if that's something that you want, that's only gonna make you better. You know, you're gonna morph into, you'll morph into that person who part of your being is a mother. And that's only a plus.

• 30:43Alex Cooper?

  Thank you for sharing that because like I needed to hear that. So I can imagine there's a lot of people listening being like, yes, Ellen, thank you. Like, can I ask, did you, for your first, did you have any?

• 30:58Alex Cooper?

  Not hesitations, but did you, how did you feel about your career and having your first child and, and were you this confident at that point?

• 31:07Speaker 01

  I definitely wasn't this confident, but it was more of, um, my husband really wanted to have a, a child. I, it wasn't really, because I had a complicated sort of sad childhood. I, I, childhood to me, I, I didn't have any sort of fond memories of children and I wasn't, I didn't feel any maternal anything really because I didn't have a mother or I had one, but she passed away.

• 31:32Alex Cooper?

  Okay. I was gonna say, do you mind me asking just a little bit about your childhood?

• 31:35Speaker 01

  She passed away of, of an accidental overdose when I was four. Um, but so I, you know, you know, I don't have all these fond memories of childhood and dying to be a mother and all of that was really my husband who said, I really want to have a daughter and I want to name her Stella. And I was like, you, you know, you, I don't know, you kind of should have asked me this before we got married because I don't know. I, I honestly, I've worked since, you know, 14 years old. I love working and I didn't really ever think about it. I just loved working every day, love going to work. And he was like, you really don't want to have a kid? And I was like, huh? Uh, no. And then he was like, just one? And I was like, oh no. And I was like, oh, okay. And then, then I started having,

• 32:18Speaker 01

  like he forced me to sort of think about it more seriously. And then I thought, you know, you think all the things like, what if I have a kid and then I don't like it? Like you can't send it back. Like what happens? And then I'm like, but a lot of people have kids and they're like obsessed with them. So like maybe something happens and maybe they really do like them. And then I thought, well, you know, I'm 38 years old and if I don't do it, I won't ever be able to. And then if I don't really like the kid or like being a mother, I'll just, I'll just have the one, right? I was like, I don't have to do it again and I'll just deal with the one. So we did it and, and then of course,

• 32:59Speaker 01

  you know, my heart broke open and, uh, and it changed my life forever. And I evolved into a completely different person. And I would say I'm so much better for having had children.

• 33:13Alex Cooper?

  Wow. It's inspiring you hearing, talking about it because I know there's mothers that listen to this. There's people that don't want kids. There's people that do want kids, but just the way that you can tell you are so.

• 33:27Alex Cooper?

  Filled up by the decision you made and obviously you didn't stop at one. So clearly you liked it. Hi Stella, listening over there. Um, no, it's beautiful. It's really beautiful. And I appreciate you sharing that because I, I think a lot of what I've talked about on my show is there's so much of what we decide from our childhood and so much of our childhood impacts us, but it doesn't define us. But you have to decide where you want to start carving your own path. And it doesn't mean that you're not going to take the things that happened to you from childhood. And then whether you change things that you didn't like, or you want to bring things forward that you liked. But like, a lot of creating your own family is because of what you went through. And it's beautiful to hear you talk about how like, you and your husband came to

• 34:12Alex Cooper?

  this decision and it wasn't something that you were at the forefront of your brain. Um, I think as career driven women, it's, it's can be hard to feel like, well, I'm going to put a pause on. And then hearing from you, you're like, I didn't really need to pause. Look at you. You're like, you've, you're doing it all and you can do it all. And I think that is inspiring. Um, I'm going to ask you some questions, some greatest questions, and you're going to tell me first thing that comes to mind.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:38Alex Cooper?

  Which character's death hit you the hardest?

• 34:41Speaker 01

  George O'Malley.

• 34:42Alex Cooper?

  It has to be.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  007.

• 34:45Alex Cooper?

  That moment where he wrote,

• 34:49Alex Cooper?

  "On your palm", I mean, the writing?

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:55Alex Cooper?

  I'm like, you just killed me. Like you just stabbed me in the heart. How dare you?

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:01Alex Cooper?

  Holy shit. Okay, I agree. Um, which scene was the most emotional to film?

• 35:06Speaker 01

  That was a pretty emotional one, but I would, I would have to say, I think Sandra Oh's last day was really emotional for me. I can speak for myself. I can speak for her, but for me, it was, it was really emotional because I, um, I I really like she's she was such a loss because she's so immensely talented. And I really didn't think the show could go on without her. And I was OK with that, but it just it literally felt like half of the show just leaving.

• 35:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it felt like a piece was gonna always be missing. And I felt like when obviously anyone from the core left, it felt wrong. But that because she was your person and you were her person on the show. It was like, I think even back to the way that you guys, the writing of that, like you're my person. And I feel like that has transcended the show in a way because in my life, I have my person. And her name is Lauren and she's my best friend and but it's more than a best friend. And I think that word has kind of seeped into people's lives where you really start to think like there's that iconic scene at the bar when she's, you know, pregnant and she's going through it. And she's gonna like not choose to keep the baby.

• 36:24Alex Cooper?

  And it's such this beautiful moment of this like feminine energy between these two human beings of just this bond that is this unsaid thing, like we will trudge through the shit for each other. And it was very inspiring to me at a young age. And now I always use that term. And it mostly comes up when I'm going through the really hard shit in life. And I always go to my person when I need her. So thank you for bringing that to life. Also, for me, emotional when Izzy and Denny Duquette and everyone's walking down the stairs.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Yes, of course, of course. I mean, listen, the the brilliance of Shonda, there's been a lot of moments.

• 37:04Alex Cooper?

  How many moments?

• 37:04Speaker 01

  But but but all of those feminist moments, right? Christina Yang talking about abortion on network primetime television, saying that the woman is the most important relationship in your life, not the man. I mean, you know, she really is.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  A feminist trailblazer i- i- i- in terms of like what what we see on the screen on primetime television. She changed the game for sure.

• 37:28Alex Cooper?

  Without a doubt. The grossest prop you've ever had to work with.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, definitely real organs, real body parts. Yeah, it's gross. It's really gross. We don't, we, we, we stopped using them, you know, in the later seasons, but in the beginning, we used to use, you know, real bowel, real intestine, like bovine, cow intestine, cow heart, cow liver, um, cow brain. It's, it's all, it's all really, it's all really gross.

• 37:58Alex Cooper?

  Oh, you've gone through it?

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:00Alex Cooper?

  Okay, which Meredith Grey line is most often quoted back to you?

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Pick me, choose me, love me. That's iconic, too.

• 38:09Alex Cooper?

  More than iconic.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Katie Heigl didn't even know that pick me girl came from that. I was like, girl.

• 38:15Alex Cooper?

  Dude.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  We're legends.

• 38:18Alex Cooper?

  When I saw that interview between you guys and you were like, did you know what a pick me girl is? And she's like, are we pick me girl? I was dying. You're like, my daughter told me that we basically, and I was the ultimate pick me girl. Stella's like, Mom, you're such a pick me. I'm like, oh, my God. That line, though, I agree. I also will never forget the stairwell moment. And I have to tell you the story because it's so embarrassing. When you looked at Derek and you say,

• 38:45Speaker 01

  You don't get to call me a whore.

• 38:47Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:48Alex Cooper?

  Girl, and you say, I, you basically say like, I will not apologize for the way that I repair my, choose to repair what you broke. I'm not a whore. I used that on an ex-boyfriend.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  You did.

• 39:02Alex Cooper?

  It's so embarrassing. Ellen, I'm in the wake of a breakup. He cheated. I'm devastated. I move on. He finds out I move on quickly. He calls me a whore. I'm sitting there like, what, what can I say to this man? We're gonna get brunch and we're gonna talk it through. And I'm like, this man has never seen Grey's Anatomy. I pull your line out of my ass. I looked this man dead in the eyes over a coffee. And I literally say, you don't get to call me a whore. And I said the whole fucking line. He was too stunned to speak. I was like, I literally am like, I hope he doesn't like, go Google that shit because it was so brilliant. Oh, and he was like mortified. I was like, thank you, Meredith Grey, moving on. So I've literally, pretty good. Um, Meredith has so

• 39:47Alex Cooper?

  many near death experiences. Which do you think was the most insane?

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Insane in what way? Like not believable?

• 39:55Alex Cooper?

  No, insane in the like, it really pushed, it pushed, like for me, the ferry.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, the ferry and Derek carrying me when I'm blue was, you know, that was amazing.

• 40:05Alex Cooper?

  And Christina saying, again, try again. I'm like, can you like, watch this just a couple of times?

• 40:11Speaker 01

  That was amazing. Yeah.

• 40:12Alex Cooper?

  And I think the, the bomb moment was.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 40:16Alex Cooper?

  Heavy.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:18Alex Cooper?

  Um, which co-star would you consider your closest friend?

• 40:22Speaker 01

  You know, I probably, I'm closest to Justin Chambers.

• 40:27Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think Justin and T R. I think I'm, I'm closest with them.

• 40:33Alex Cooper?

  Cute. As we all saw, Meredith didn't make the best decisions in her relationship sometimes. Sometimes. We love our girl, but sometimes. I'm going to give you a scenario from the show and you tell me what advice you would now give Meredith. Meredith begging Derek to choose her over his wife.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Girl, bye.

• 40:58Alex Cooper?

  Love. Meredith rebounding with George when she knew he liked her for years.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  I mean, can I tell you, can I tell you an inside story about that?

• 41:09Alex Cooper?

  Please.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  That's, this is a crazy. T R and I are such good friends.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  And we had to do a love scene and we were both crying. We cried. We cried. And the scene

• 41:26Speaker 01

  was so uncomfortable and awkward. And

• 41:32Speaker 01

  he didn't want to do that. I didn't want to do it. And when we filmed it, it was so bad. And then the network said there was too much thrusting. In your worst nightmare to have to do it one time, we had to reshoot that shit. We had to reshoot it and do it twice.

• 41:50Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  I mean, if you, by the way, I've never watched that scene. I've never seen it.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  But I'm, I don't know how it was shot or covered or what the end, how it was edited, but I'm full on in tears, the whole entire scene and those are real tears. Yeah. And there was a lot of stuff that I didn't want to do at the time. I didn't want to say, pick me, choose me, love me, you know, and to Shonda's credit, like she knew that was going to pop. I was like, why would I do this? Why would I beg? Why would I, and, and you know, you have to just suck it up and do it. And, um, and it ended up being, you know, the biggest thing ever, the most iconic things ever. So I'm not always the best judge of, you know, what's gonna, and it's not like I said, it wasn't going to be good. I was just like, I don't want to do that. And, and you know, but so.

• 42:44Alex Cooper?

  That's so interesting. Thank you for the little tea there. Thank you. Um, okay. Meredith attempting to be friends with benefits with an ex like Derek.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Listen, it depends on the situation.

• 42:57Alex Cooper?

  True.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  You know.

• 42:58Alex Cooper?

  You never know.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  Do what you need to do, girl.

• 43:02Alex Cooper?

  Kind of fair.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Handle your business.

• 43:06Alex Cooper?

  Um, Meredith dating a former patient.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Was he hot? Who was it?

• 43:10Alex Cooper?

  Was it Nick? Was his name Nick?

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Oh, Nick. Oh, Speedman's so hot. Yes. What? We're not questioning dating Speedman.

• 43:19Alex Cooper?

  I'm upset.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  I mean, not Speedman, Nick Marsh.

• 43:21Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Speedman's happily married with two children, my good friend, but you know.

• 43:27Alex Cooper?

  You know.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  Daddy gang. He's hot. Love.

• 43:29Alex Cooper?

  Okay. And last one, Meredith building her future home out of candles to show Derek her commitment, even though he had a girlfriend. Rose.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Wait, I built it? No, he did the candle house.

• 43:39Alex Cooper?

  No, you did. Your stupid, stupid house. I shouldn't have done this. I'm so embarrassed. I don't want to be, and he comes in, remember? Yes.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  No, I don't even remember.

• 43:49Alex Cooper?

  Meredith built the house in candles.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  I thought he built the house in candles.

• 43:52Alex Cooper?

  No, you're like, I'm so embarrassing. This is so stupid. I shouldn't have done this. And then he's like, Meredith, and you're like, this is our living room. This is where we're going to have the kids. This is where, and then he's like, I have to leave. I have to go tell Rose.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Really?

• 44:04Alex Cooper?

  I love I'm telling you this.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Oh my God. I didn't remember that. That's what it was. You know what I remember from that scene? I remember the poor prop people having to light every single candle and like the wind blowing and blowing out half of them. And then me like.

• 44:16Alex Cooper?

  So good.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  There was like 17 of us trying to light all the candles.

• 44:21Alex Cooper?

  Okay. It's obviously such a big cast. Can you talk to me about like, how do you handle? Because at the end of the day, this is your job. How did you handle when maybe you didn't vibe with certain people on set? Or you didn't get along with people like anyone does in a work environment? Like, how did you personally navigate those moments?

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Maybe not always the best. I think there's no real roadmap to do it one way. I think it depends on the circumstance.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  You know, not everybody's gonna like you. And you have to be okay with that. I say that to Stella all the time. You know, you don't like everybody. I don't like everybody. So not everybody is gonna like you. And that's sometimes hard, but it's just a fact of life. And you have to just swallow that pill that like, you're not everybody's cup of tea. And, and so it's challenging. I think that, you know, sometimes I've, I've, I've,

• 45:23Speaker 01

  I think what's hard, what was hard for me on set for Grace is I felt like, because I did have a position of power, that I could advocate for certain people sometimes, and try to fight for people when they maybe didn't feel like they had enough power. And then to have that not be well received.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  And people to like, say like, we don't, we don't, I don't need you to like, do that for me. I thought like, oh, yikes, so sorry. Like, you know? And, and I've learned so much. But, but what I've learned is every situation is different, you know? And then, you know, I've not always handled everything perfectly. Obviously, I've stuck my foot in my mouth more times than I can choose on the show and off it. You know, but all you can do is learn. And I think the thing about me is my intention is always good. But sometimes as a sort of strong person, and, and I'm a strong person because I've survived a lot and dealt with a lot. So I do have a tough exterior.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Sometimes that is misconstrued as something else. Because I am hard on the outside and I curse like a sailor. And I'll literally start a fistfight in the middle of Rodeo Drive with someone who cuts me off. I will. Don't sleep. I will. But I'm also like, super soft and chewy inside. And you know, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a complex blend, I think.

• 46:59Alex Cooper?

  Aren't we all? I do want to talk a little bit more about that of you being the leading role, right? And the pressures that come with that. And can we talk about money?

• 47:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:12Alex Cooper?

  Let's talk about money.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Let's do it.

• 47:30Alex Cooper?

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• 48:12Alex Cooper?

  you like, Revolve will show you similar options. So you can build off of that. This is my favorite aspect of shopping on Revolve. I'm like, oh, I really like the sweater. And then all of a sudden, they're like, shop the whole look. And then there's the pants. And then there's the purse. And then there's the shoes. And then there's the jewelry. And then there's the sunglasses. And I'm like, oh, my God, I just put all this in my car. And I never, I didn't have to do much. It's really nice. Also, you can find the best brands. Keep coming back to shop new arrivals daily and find inclusive sizing. Listen, hot girl energy, hot mom energy, whatever era you're in, Revolve has the outfit for it. Revolve has the hottest brands, new arrivals shopping daily, and pieces you'll wear over and over again. Go to revolve.com/chd and use code C H D for 15% off your first order.

• 48:57Alex Cooper?

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• 49:43Alex Cooper?

  SoFi, get your money right. This is a paid advertisement by SoFi Technologies and is not intended to be financial advice. Your $20 million salary was publicly shared to the world. How did you feel when that came out?

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Well, my manager at the time said something to me that literally hit me like a brick. He said, "Are you ready to be unpopular?"

• 50:08Speaker 01

  I was like, "What do you mean?" And he was like, "Well, I just don't want you to think that everyone's gonna go in and cheer for you and clap for you and bow to you and think you're the dopest thing ever, because there's gonna be a lot of people who are not happy for you." And that had never occurred to me. And I was like, "Oh, thanks for saying that to me." It did not occur to me, and you are so right. And so that was a good prep for me, that he said that. But it's true. It's not everybody... And other women have said it publicly, like, "No, people, generally, it's hard for people to celebrate other people if they have something that resembles something that they want."

• 50:54Alex Cooper?

  No, yeah, I feel very

• 50:58Alex Cooper?

  in simpatico with you on this and I'm enjoying asking you this because I'm also like, I think probably also like enjoying any wisdom I can get because I think you deserve that.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  And do you.

• 51:11Alex Cooper?

  Thank you, but you don't prepare for, you're right, that feeling where you're so like, wow, holy shit, there's not a lot of women who have gotten to this point like, and in your head, you're celebrating like, I remember in my moment, it was less about in moments myself, more about like, I don't think I'm like ever going to get comfortable with the number being out there. Like my first contract was, um, I remember when the number got leaked and I was like, whoa, I'm so proud though that people know that it's there because it stands for so much, I thought in my mind, but then you get this wave of negativity that

• 51:53Alex Cooper?

  I, I, I say it all the time and it is a definite statement that men just do not experience this level of scrutiny when it comes to money. You have Jeff Bezos and Elon and Trump and all of these men get to just fucking shit money in front of our faces. And everyone thinks it's hot and powerful and they're so, and then the minute we get any of it, even in the ball, not even in the ballpark, we're just lightly getting a part of the conversation. It's like, oh, she doesn't deserve it. Either she's a bitch. She found a way to maneuver it because she's not worth that. And it's like, it's a lot.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  It's, it's a lot and it's patriarchy and it's misogyny. And that's what it is. What, you know, it's sports players too. Sports players are celebrated for their contracts. Crazy contracts, not saying they're, they don't, they're not worth it, but I mean, it's okay for them to celebrate it. And it's, and it's not okay. And I think what, what helps me is uh, to really focus on. To not sort of to take myself out of it and stop thinking about myself and what people think of me and just focus on what I do best, which is the work, focus on the work and focus

• 53:13Speaker 01

  on when you make a lot of money as a woman, let's face it, you have power, right? So then how can I take that power and do good with it? How can I amplify someone else? How can I help someone else? How can I lift up someone else who doesn't sit in the position of privilege that I sit in? Fuck what people think of me. Who cares? You can't control that. What you can do is use your power for good. And there's a lot of women, probably in your field, you know, who would love a show on Unwell.

• 53:46Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  And, and who would thrive and would do anything to get on your network and be under your umbrella. They just need a chance, you know? So who cares what people say about you? You just keep doing you and use your power to lift up other people and your power wouldn't have been for nothing.

• 54:07Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me about what doubts you personally had to push through in the moments where you needed to essentially go in and advocate for yourself of what you're worth to get to that point in your career where you're like, I deserve this number, or whatever it was when you're sitting in those rooms with these people who are probably like, I don't know if you do. Can you talk to me about that?

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, sure. So I'm super lucky and I have a great team of lawyers and agents, right? And then here we go. Once again, Shonda Rhimes. I, being, being a woman, I guess I'm conditioned to make sure that I'm not stepping on anybody's toes and I'm being polite, which I guess people maybe who know me wouldn't say, well, bitch, you are not polite. But anyway, I asked Shonda first. I said, just so you know, she doesn't really have much to do with that stuff, you know, it's business affairs and whatever. But I said to her, I'm gonna go in and ask for this much. Are you cool with that?

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Just because I don't want to be disrespectful to her. I don't want to come off crazy and I want to let her know what moves I'm making because I do respect her. I am grateful to her and um, and I don't, and I, and, and, and I do want to make sure I'm, I'm moving in the right way, right? And so, and she was like, yeah, no one's gonna give it to you. You have to ask for it. And so, once I got her blessing to go ahead and do what I wanted to do, then I said to my team, I'm okay with that. And you know, necessarily, the business people might say, you don't need to ask her permission. You don't need to do that. And, and then I say, yeah, but I want to. Because truth is, I wouldn't be here without her. So, I always, back to my being raised in

• 55:55Speaker 01

  a mafia culture, I always want to pay respect to the people that deserve respect. And it makes me feel good to know, I'm let, I'm letting you know how I'm moving. Because to me, that's polite, that's courteous. I'm gonna go do this. I don't want to make you look crazy. And it's communication, and I just feel like it's good business. And, and people know I'm upfront with them. And I'm not shady. I'm not, I'm not shady at all. I'm super upfront. I always say it like it is. May not always land well, but like, I'm transparent, you know?

• 56:27Alex Cooper?

  I also think something that you said in that, that's really great advice for someone when they are going to advocate for themselves, and you are going to someone like Shonda, who's again, also in a position of power, you, in your gut, you were doing it out of a respect. It wasn't because you're back against the wall. You're like, if she finds out, she'll be mad. It wasn't out of fear base. And I think a lot of times, when you're going to make a business decision for yourself, or a relationship decision, whatever it is, checking in with yourself to be like, why am I actually doing this? You went to Shonda because she had, whether it was stuck her neck out for you, or you, and you respected her, and you had a great working relationship with her. Like, that was between you and Shonda, where you genuinely wanted to do it. You didn't have

• 57:12Alex Cooper?

  to do it, but it meant something to you and her relationship. You know what I mean?

• 57:16Speaker 01

  You know, I believe in honor.

• 57:18Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  And the other thing I believe in is, sort of, I don't want anything that I don't deserve. I don't want anything I don't deserve and I don't want anything that I haven't worked for. And I'm happy to work for everything I have and, and, and, and, you know, the, the CAA can, they print out a report, right? You curating or whatever it is, they spit it out and they let you know exactly how you move the needle. It's all in the data. You affect this many households, your voice is recognizable to this many people, the median income in that household is this. They break it down. You see exactly how much the, this network makes for the parent company.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  I see exactly how much Grey's Anatomy makes for ABC Disney. I get to see the number and then, you know, it's my face, it's my voice. I've done so much work promoting the show all over the world for the past 20 years. It is, I am the, you know, Disney princess of that franchise. So, you know, I have this sort of data to back up. I know the show has generated this much money. I definitely deserve a percentage of that. And you can do the same and, and, and that's what's challenging and I've said this before, so I'm sorry if I sound redundant, but

• 58:42Speaker 01

  it is challenging for women to advocate themselves in different situations and jobs because if you cannot quantify what your, um, how, how your, what you do contributes to the income of that company. It's, it's, it's harder to fight for yourself and say, I deserve this. Well, you deserve this based on what? It is easier to quantify what you're worth when you see a hard number. So I advocate for women always fighting for themselves because most likely they are getting undervalued compared to what they're offering men. Uh, we, we know that also statistically and women of color and Hispanic women and Asian women.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  You know, we know all those numbers, so they're always undervalued. So all women should always push the envelope. All anyone can say is no.

• 59:30Alex Cooper?

  Such a good fucking point about I. The, I remember the first contract essentially I was in, I was so green, I was so new, I didn't know anything about bonus structure and download structure and all of that, and it was used against me. I was being lied to about what I should be getting to for a bonus. And so it was this like push and pull of begging for numbers, begging for numbers. And I remember when I got into my next contract, that was something I had personally made sure my lawyers put in the contract that every single data point that impacts this show and how much money it's making, I get to see. Because now, I agree with you, it's like anyone out there can be out there saying, we don't, we don't deserve it or whatever.

• 1:00:15Alex Cooper?

  I'm looking at the numbers. These people aren't just fucking giving out fresh cash and free cash for jack shit. It's like these, no one is giving out money these days easily. So it's like, you're right. I think if, especially if women, even if it's you're advocating for yourself to get the month, um, like buy quarterly check-ins and getting more like tangible information, information is power. And when people are trying to block you out of getting information, there is a reason for that. And the more that you can push to whatever field you're in, you gotta try to go for it because that's how you're gonna have leverage. So, and, and you talking about the male female thing, which is obvious. Obviously, you and your co-star Patrick Dempsey, I know you talked about in the past of just like,

• 1:01:00Alex Cooper?

  they kind of would use it as leverage in your negotiations, like, what message did that send you of someone you're on camera with and you can't get the same?

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  Well, you know, listen, to be completely fair, the television game was so different then. And he had done like 13 pilots before me, right? That was my first pilot I had ever done. And back in those days, you know, I don't know if they still do this or not, um, they had like, you had a quote. And with every TV pilot you did, you got your quote, which was whatever it was. So if you've done 13 TV pilots, and here we go, nothing, nothing personal to him, but just in general, um, only a man can fail. Have thirteen failed TV pilots and their quote still keeps going up, right? But in all fairness, his quote was what it was. He was a bigger star than I was at that point. No one knew who I was. Everybody knew who he was.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  So he did, he did deserve that money. I'm not saying he didn't deserve that money. It just being that I was the namesake of the show, I deserved the same. And then that was harder to get. So I wasn't salty about him getting what he got. I was salty that they didn't value me as much as they valued him. And, and, and, and they never will. And, and, and that goes for, back to my earlier point of like, once you get to a certain level, you can advocate, you know, for other women on your, uh, platform or in your job, in your workplace. If you know, you know, that, that, that you're getting this much and all the other women are well beneath you,

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  you can't just be okay with that. You can't just be like, yes, I'm winning. Cool. Let's go. No, you really do have a responsibility to look and see what everybody else is making and, and use your power to say, listen, I appreciate what I got. This is amazing. But I happen to notice this and I really think that all the women deserve a bump.

• 1:03:04Alex Cooper?

  That's, I mean, even hearing you back to the first question I asked you about this, like,

• 1:03:10Alex Cooper?

  when your agent said that or your lawyer, I forget which one you said, which was so profound of just being like, girl, no one is going to be that happy for you. How did you then just navigate the interpersonal dynamics on set of, yet again, knowing you deserved this,

• 1:03:30Alex Cooper?

  but there may be some awkwardness. Like, was it tough?

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  It's like, again, yeah, I have some people pleasing element that I think all of us have, right? Well, not everybody, but a lot of people, I definitely have it. And um, yeah, it's not easy because what's what you see is, you know, you see the people, I was ready for it, right? Because he made that comment to me. So what I saw was people who didn't say anything. You know, I got emails from all these people. I'm not going to name drop, but like, I got a lot of emails that day when that story came out from, you know, amazing people. People who were like, how'd you get my email? You know, congratulating me. And um, but then the ones who are quiet, you know, who don't say anything.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  And you see it and you're like, okay, but you know, I don't know what to say. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

• 1:04:39Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. So the other day I was just scrolling on my phone and one of those one year ago today notifications popped up. I usually don't pay much attention to them, but when I saw it was from my Napa trip with Lauren. I obviously had to go back through every single photo. I remember we drove up to Napa for a weekend and found the cutest farmhouse on Airbnb to stay in. The location could not have been more perfect. It was right by a vineyard and overlooked this beautiful golf course, which yes, Matt was very jealous of. During the day, we went wine tasting like a little cute couple.

• 1:05:24Alex Cooper?

  Then we brought our favorite bottles back to the house at night for cozy, long girl talks on the couch. Obviously, I

• 1:05:34Alex Cooper?

  Haven't had a drink in forever since being pregnant, so I cannot wait for wine nights again soon with my girlfriends. And now that holiday travel season is finally here, all of my group chats are going off with everyone trying to coordinate dates and just figure out where we're going to stay and where we're going to go next. But looking back through those photos reminded me that some of the best parts of a trip happen back at the house, right? Like, that's why I love booking a home on Airbnb. It literally gives everyone space to just spread out and it makes every trip feel more relaxed. You can even order groceries, which I love, for your trip through Airbnb and have everything from breakfast essentials

• 1:06:16Alex Cooper?

  to holiday snacks delivered after you arrive. If you're planning your Thanksgiving trip or any holiday travel this season, definitely check out Airbnb before you book. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Stouffer's. Let me tell you something. When I am hungry and I am trying to figure out what to eat, sometimes you can just actually become so, you're angry. You're like, I am busy. I'm hungry. I'm getting hangry. I'm getting angry. What can I eat? I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance. Well, introducing Stouffer's dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto, or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious,

• 1:06:59Alex Cooper?

  easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at Stouffer's.com.

• 1:07:07Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me about you're married to Chris and your career obviously was taking off simultaneously. You're dealing with grays. There's these super, super, super, not only steamy moments, but I mean, like, there's the big, one of the biggest love stories, I guess you could say, of all time. How did your husband feel about you having this insane romance on screen? Like, was he chill with it? Was it like a conversation you guys ever had? Like, I guess, how do you deal with that as an actress?

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  I mean, I think that it's... Chris really never watched the show. That helped. You know, it was better for him. He knew just not to watch. Um, you know, he really, I was with him before grays. So grays kind of came out of nowhere for us and I just think we were on this crazy ride that we were just trying to hang on for dear life. You know, um, the part, part of it that was more intense for me, even more than that was back to the tabloid stuff of like how they started attacking him.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  You know, and bringing up his past things and a record that he had and stuff that he did and you know, we don't need to get into a whole racial breakdown here, but like,

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  you know, the truth is, is young black men in this country aren't given the same opportunities as everybody else. And a lot of people come from rough neighborhoods. I came from a rough neighborhood. I, I, I did plenty of dirt when I was young. I won't get into that here, but you know, the truth is, is publicly he was sort of meant, you know, the racial component of our relationship was really something that he never asked for. And, uh, and I was, I felt really more bad about that, that I felt like the media was really mean to him and, and, and really biased because how dare this skinny blonde petite little woman

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  be with this tall black man? Um, the visual of that, I think America wasn't ready for that. The mail that I used to get. Um, the racist hateful violent mail that ABC would get because of that.

• 1:09:34Alex Cooper?

  I literally got chills when you just said that because it's so disgusting and is like makes me emotional thinking about it because the beautiful family you have created and the beautiful relationship you must have to weather a storm that is all

• 1:10:03Alex Cooper?

  Everyone else is bringing the negativity to you like you're two human beings like you said before grays like you're doing your thing and then this thing explodes and you become on this pedestal that people want you to act a certain way, date a certain way, be a certain way. And if you don't kind of fall into that exact stereotype that they want you to be, then you're failing. And I mean, I can't imagine the conversations and but if anything, and correct me if I'm wrong, how much stronger in the end it made the two of your relationship, but you should have never had to go through that. Like,

• 1:10:44Alex Cooper?

  have you guys, have you, have you ever had to talk to your kids about this because like, will they ever read these tabloids? Do you know what I mean?

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  No, no, I don't think, I don't think so, because the media is so different now.

• 1:10:56Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  No, I think, I think what's, what's really helped is, well, Chris is biracial, right? His mother is white Jewish, and he grew up in Boston in the seventies in a real, you know, super liberal hippie sort of place, right? So he was very familiar, you know, obviously, very familiar with that type of attention and either, you know, negativity. Boston historically was always a super racist place. So I'm not, you know, everybody knows that. So, you know, and I think that what's funny about, and Chris and I, because we come from the same place, we're like, you know, sort of two kids who made it out and

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  then landed in Hollywood and like jumped on this ride and we were just so, we just couldn't believe that, you know, something was actually happening, that it was great. We had this, I had this great job and we were getting to travel all over the world. And so, in a way, like we're, we had each other and he's a big reason how I got through all that was because he did understand, because he is cut from the same cloth as, as I am. And I think that You know, to your point in women in media or people see you and they have a certain idea about who you should be. And for me, you know, people aren't used to, you know, I'm probably,

• 1:12:21Speaker 01

  people see me and they think I'm, they think they know who I am. And they don't know that, you know, I'm this like, sort of tough, you know, half mafia, half street fighter, half, you know what I mean? I'm confusing to people because they see me and they think I'm one thing, or they see Meredith and they think that's me and that's who I am. But really, I'm really very different.

• 1:12:46Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  Like, probably should have been on The Sopranos more, more than Grey's Anatomy.

• 1:12:51Alex Cooper?

  Well, thank God you were on Grey's Anatomy. Okay.

• 1:12:54Speaker 01

  I mean, Sopranos would have been dope, too.

• 1:12:56Alex Cooper?

  Oh, I mean.

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  But, but thank God for Grey's.

• 1:12:57Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, thank God for Grey's. Like, yeah, no, that would not have been bad. Um, let's talk about now.

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:13:04Alex Cooper?

  The Good American Family. I'm thinking about Good American Family and I'm like sitting here and I'm like, 21 years of Grey's?

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:13:10Alex Cooper?

  21 years?

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:12Alex Cooper?

  This is your first project since that. How did you decide, like, I'm going to invest in a new character, in a new story? Was it even ever a question that you would or wouldn't do anything else?

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  Well, I always, I didn't know what I was gonna do. I just knew that I really couldn't do Grey's anymore.

• 1:13:35Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  Um, that it was to the point where I really just felt like, you know, an animal at the zoo. Like I, and even if, in, like I said, I'm a big believer in destiny and I thought, if there's something else I'm meant to do, it's gonna find me. And, uh, but, but I know I have to leave this. And sometimes, you know, you'd like opportunities to come while you're doing something, so you have an easy exit, you have a soft landing. And and it turns out I I actually did get a soft landing because I'm I I still did both. Um, but I was sort of thinking like nothing's coming along and and I really believe in this town. If they want you, they will find you. I'm on TV for 20 years, the biggest show ever. Like, everybody knows who I am. Clearly, these people don't want me.

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  They're not coming for me. No one's offering me this. No one's offering me that. I mean, I've been offered a few things, obviously, but like could never make it work. And everyone's always just like, well, we're not going to offer Ellen this because there's no way she can get out of her grace commitment. And and, you know, for the most part, you shoot network television 10 months out of the year. So I had always committed to that. And then there's no room to do anything else. Now it's a little easier because you don't you shoot 15 episodes. You know, they've really reduced the orders on network television. Um, but anyway, I had really stepped away and I had said, I really, I have to step away. I can't do it anymore. And if nothing else comes, nothing else comes. It's my destiny. No one wants me. That's OK. I can swallow that pill like I swallow everything else.

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  And at least I'm financially OK. And then I got the script. Um, which Laura Holstein, who's sitting outside, she, um, I think, brought it to me with my agent. And, uh, and and and my agent said, and I said, why would we do this? How will we pull this off? This is kind of tricky stuff. Uh, this world, social media, TikTok, documentaries, cancel culture, all of it. You know, it's all a lot. And this is tricky subject matter. And this looks like walking through a landmine. I don't know why we would do this. And then he said, you've always said if there was something so different and so crazy in a character

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  that was just a complete 180 from everything you've done, that you'd love to do it. To challenge yourself and to prove that you can. And this is it. It does happen to be tricky subject matter and we're dealing with child abuse and disabled children and a lot of neurodivergent children and a lot of tricky subject matter, but if you really want to take a turn and you really want to flip shit, Ellen, this is the moment right here. And so it's an offer, you know, they want you to do this and you should just go for it.

• 1:16:21Alex Cooper?

  Talk to me about leaning in, obviously, and preparing for this character. It is a, it is a very dark story. Like as a mother yourself, how did, where was the in? Like, how did you find it within yourself to like enter into this character and be this character and bring it to life?

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  I think the, the first thing I started with was every mother has the intention and the maternal biological crazy instinct to literally do anything for your kids. You can lift a car off your kid if you had to, right? It's this otherworldly strength that you have to want to love your children, protect your children, and you will do anything to give them the best chance. So I started from that. And then what happens when you have the best of intentions and shit just doesn't go the way you thought it was going to go? So I think that things, we have a lot of expectations and especially when people have children, you expect your child's going to be super cute, you're going to dress them

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  up super cute, you're going to put them in little dresses and they're going to look just like you and they're going to do everything you say and they're going to go to bed when you tell them and it's just going to be awesome. But like sometimes you have a kid who's like, we're not doing that today. I'm going to throw this on the floor. I'm going to knock this over, you know, whatever. And, and as a parent, like there's a lot attached, as parenting is, is a lot about ego because you, you do expect this person to do everything you tell them to do. You want them to be exactly who you want them to be. But the truth is they're not. They come out who they are and you have to deal with that.

• 1:18:07Alex Cooper?

  Is this a situation where you guys have been able to talk to the real family?

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  Nope. Nope. Can't do any of that. And we really did create like our writers, and this is the interesting thing about fiction and drama and entertainment.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Is we can create our own narrative and the idea that your truth is different than my truth. The two of us can can sit here today. I mean, this is maybe a bad example because we're having a great time and it's love fest. But like, we come away from this with two different versions of what happened.

• 1:18:45Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  Which is so often the case. You've been, you know, in situations with people where this person thinks this thing and this person thinks this thing. And you're like, wait, I didn't think that at all. That's what she thought. I was doing this. And they took it as this. So that's another one of our complicated human conditions is like your opinion and your version of events is different than mine. Everybody sees things differently. And we're certainly, you know, dealing with that in our country right now. So we're telling this story from a lot of different perspectives.

• 1:19:17Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  Which makes it complex and interesting. Because you think you know what this story is. People think they know what this story is. There was the movie Orphan that was done years ago. And people are like seeing the trailer and they're like, oh, I know what that is. No, you don't. Like, we're smarter than that. Give us some credit, please. We've thought of everything. And we've been thoughtful. And we're like, what if it was this? What if it was this? What if it wasn't this? What if it was this?

• 1:19:51Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 1:19:52Speaker 01

  And we're giving you a lot to think about. So.

• 1:19:55Alex Cooper?

  I'm just so excited for you and for the world to see you in a different role. And I think it's, there is an anticipation that is exciting to know that we're not gonna see Meredith Grey on screen. And that is, and I think the complete departure is such a fascinating take that you did. And I'm excited that you went all the way to the other side. And I'm just excited for everyone in the world to watch this and enjoy it and ingest it and see you in a different light because you're so talented. We've all fallen in love with you through one lens and now we have to adapt and change

• 1:20:37Alex Cooper?

  and it's gonna be such a fun roller coaster to watch this and to enjoy it and selfishly now getting to know you today. I'm so excited for you that like you said, especially for women, like how crazy that the first contract negotiation that you did for Grey's Anatomy, you were turning 40 and you're like, oh, well, this will probably be it. I guess I'll take the money and now look at where you're sitting.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:59Alex Cooper?

  And we are talking about 19 seasons and then here you are and you got a new career moment that's about to just completely take off in a different direction. And here we go again. It's wild. It's really wild. Last question, what do you hope your legacy is in this industry and what it will be?

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  That's a tough question.

• 1:21:23Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  Because also what I love is like, did you see Jane Fonda on the SAG Awards? Like her consistency, right? I love consistency. I love, yes, she's that bitch. She's exactly who she's always been. She was that then, got canceled for it in the seventies when she was speaking up about us killing children in a war.

• 1:21:47Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  And she's still speaking up and she's still using her voice. So I guess, I guess that being said, I really like my legacy to be someone who used my voice, my privilege and my power to help other people.

• 1:22:04Alex Cooper?

  It was more than an honor to sit with you today. I got my fangirlness out. I learned so much. I felt so inspired. I felt connected. Like this was all the things in interview I could ever ask for. So thank you so much, Ellen. You are one of one. Thank you.

• 1:22:21Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:22:21Alex Cooper?

  Thank you.

• 1:22:37Alex Cooper?

  Thanks to Lieb by Yves Saint Laurent for sponsoring today's episode. Make a statement with Lieb Lounou, the fragrance that sets you apart. Shop now at Sephora. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by T-Mobile. Daddy gang, there are honestly so many reasons to just choose T-Mobile. They've got T-Mobile Tuesdays perks, tons of freebies, travel benefits like hotel and rental car savings. They make your phone plan feel like it's actually giving you something back instead of just being another bill that you have to pay every single month. And if you're a student, T-Mobile has student perks plans designed specifically for you. I remember being in college and constantly literally just looking for ways to save money,

• 1:23:22Alex Cooper?

  understandably. And so these are the kind of perks I would have absolutely taken advantage of. Students can get things like a $5 movie ticket every month, exclusive access to concerts, okay, and even streaming benefits. So you can always have a reality TV binge night with your girls. And when you're already paying for your phone every month, getting all of these extra benefits on top of it, just, it makes sense, right? For all the reasons to choose T-Mobile, find yours at tmobile.com/membership. Qualifying plan required, visit tmobile.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Stouffer's. Let me tell you something, when I am hungry and I am trying to figure out what to eat,

• 1:24:06Alex Cooper?

  sometimes you can just actually become so, you're angry. You're like, I am busy, I'm hungry, I'm getting hangry, I'm getting angry. What can I eat? I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance. Well, introducing Stouffer's. Dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto, or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at stouffer's.com.