Assassin's Creed vs. a Train That Does Backflips

This week’s games represent two ends of the video game spectrum. On one side, we have Denshattack, an indie game about a train that performs skateboard-style tricks in a fantastical version of Japan. On the other end, we have Assassin’s Creed Black Flag Resynced, a decadent remake of a beloved but dusty Ubisoft open-world game. Guest Jeff Grubb from Giant Bomb helps us chat about these two very different delights!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Russ Frushtick?

  Okay, guys, have you ever created strife within a public park?

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Sorry, what?

• 0:06Russ Frushtick?

  Accidental, accidental strife among volunteers in a public park.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Gotta say I haven't.

• 0:15Chris Plante?

  Sounds like a crime.

• 0:16Russ Frushtick?

  I created some strife, but it is going to require some setup, some history, if you will, and I hope you'll stick with me through it.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  You have a history with the park? Alright, you-

• 0:23Russ Frushtick?

  No, no, no, I mean actual-

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 0:26Chris Plante?

  Okay?

• 0:28Russ Frushtick?

  There's an island in upstate New York called Bannerman Island. And it was owned by a guy named like John Bannerman or something, whatever it is. Anyway, he built this castle there. It was only like 1900, it was not that old, but he loved castles, he's from Scotland, so he built this castle there. And while he was building it, he wanted to save on materials, so instead of using like rebar to like structure up the walls and things like that, he stuck whatever he could find, so bed frames, bayonets, any piece of metal he could find, he stuck it up there.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Upcycling.

• 1:00Russ Frushtick?

  Some, yeah, upcycling. Uh, some years later, there was a giant explosion and also weather, and the castle collapsed.

• 1:08Chris Plante?

  Okay.

• 1:08Russ Frushtick?

  Okay. I get this information because my wife and I were visiting the island, Bannerman Island, and the volunteer who was giving us the tour explained all this to us. So now I'm a Bannerman Island expert, even though I don't remember the guy's first name.

• 1:21Chris Plante?

  Van.

• 1:21Russ Frushtick?

  I get that information, and then I'm talking to another guy separately, who seems like the head of the organization. This is the Bannerman Island guy. This is the guy that raises all the money, and I'm saying casually to him like, "Man, it must be really hard to raise money for this island when they have such a, I didn't say shitty, but such a shitty castle that you're trying to restore. They spent no effort." And the guy was like, "What?

• 1:46Russ Frushtick?

  What did you say?" I said, "You know, because he like, there was like bayonets and bed frames, and he didn't like build it great." And the guy's like, "Actually, I think they might have overbuilt it, if anything." And then he asks, "Who told you that?"

• 2:01Chris Plante?

  Oh, no.

• 2:02Russ Frushtick?

  Who asked, "Who told you that the castle was poorly built?" And I was like, "Uh, Mark?"

• 2:11Speaker 01

  You threw Mark under the castle?

• 2:14Russ Frushtick?

  And then I went back to Mark and I'm like, Mark, by the way, I was talking to this guy up there and he kinda took offense.

• 2:19Chris Plante?

  What is wrong with you?

• 2:20Russ Frushtick?

  I'm just interested.

• 2:22Chris Plante?

  Why are you a human Seinfeld episode?

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26Russ Frushtick?

  Okay, so I talked to Mark and I'm like, this guy up there, I told him like, hey, it's a shitty castle and he got kind of offended and Mark was like, was it the guy in the gray shirt? And I was like, yeah.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Beef?

• 2:39Russ Frushtick?

  And then Mark went up to go talk to gray shirt guy and that's when my ferry was leaving Bannerman Island. So all we could see was Mark going up the steps to have like a fucking confrontation.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Fist like curled and like kinda like, yeah, yeah.

• 2:54Russ Frushtick?

  He, he looked pissed.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah.

• 2:58Russ Frushtick?

  Cause who's gonna undercut your tour that you just did in 90 degree weather? Like.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  So did they use bed frames or not, Russ?

• 3:05Russ Frushtick?

  They did, they did, but I think the question is, is using bed frames, does that count as shitty building? I think it does.

• 3:11Chris Plante?

  I think the mortgage is turning shit is the bayonet.

• 3:13Russ Frushtick?

  No, half of the castle is gone. It did, however, worth noting, it did explode because they did store gunpowder there and mass and kinda left it over the winter and didn't really maintain it. And it did kind of half explode. So that is part of it.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  That seems important, Russ. I'm gonna be honest.

• 3:30Russ Frushtick?

  It was part of it, it was part of it, but also they said the bed frame, it was poorly built. Take that Bannerman Island.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Go to hell.

• 3:36Russ Frushtick?

  It was, it was beautiful otherwise.

• 3:57Chris Plante?

  My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I know the best game of the week.

• 4:01Russ Frushtick?

  My name is Russ Froschek. I know the best game of the week.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  My name is Jeff Grubb and I know the best game of the week.

• 4:07Russ Frushtick?

  Welcome to the besties. It's a video game club that goes all year round and just by listening, you are a member. Griffin is not here this week. He is dealing with some personal stuff.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Can't be on the same podcast together. It's a whole thing.

• 4:18Russ Frushtick?

  I know, that is part of the rule. He did request that he should have nothing to do with Jeff Grubb, but we are very pleased to have a very special guest in Jeff Grubb, I suppose. Welcome. Not your first time being here, but we do appreciate you coming back and filling in for our boy, Big G.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Glad to be here.

• 4:36Russ Frushtick?

  Um, where can people learn more about the Jeff Grubb experience? I know the answer to this, but tell them.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, just go to Giant Bomb. We're doing a lot of fun stuff over there. It's, uh, you know what? Actually here, I'll give you a very specific thing. Uh, I, I am like the second, we got a, a hard out today because I have to go immediately into my first episode of a new season of Blight Club, which is our series where we play bad games and we don't just play them. We have to complete them. We play them to credits. So.

• 5:02Russ Frushtick?

  The horror.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Yes. Uh, so, uh, Dan Riker just beat Space Ace for the Super Nintendo, which I know maybe doesn't sound as bad. It's awful. It was.

• 5:12Russ Frushtick?

  Can you play it with like, uh, cheats and?

• 5:15Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no. We, we have to play it on the base difficulty and we have to actually like play it for real for shoot, as we say. Uh, Mike, before that did Virtuoso, which is a weird 3D game where he plays a rock star who like the, the way he gets away from his rock star lifestyle as he goes into a virtual reality where he has to shoot snowmen and clowns and stuff. And that one might not sound bad either. It was terrible. So they're mad that they both had really bad games. Yeah. Also very difficult. So now they want to punish me for sitting back and laughing at them for the last year. So it's going to be, I really don't know what to expect. I won't know what my.

• 5:47Russ Frushtick?

  Oh, you don't know what the game is?

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Know, and I won't know. Right behind me is a box with a, we also wear costumes. So behind me, there's a box of the costume. I haven't seen it. My wife has, when she saw it, she looked upset. She looked, she looked worried for me. So.

• 6:01Russ Frushtick?

  Well, I'm gonna have to tune into that. That sounds fantastic. Not for you, but for everyone else.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Apparently.

• 6:07Chris Plante?

  I do hope that it's just like a paint target and a jock strap and you're going to be playing jackass a video game.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 6:14Chris Plante?

  Like that would be really nice.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  It's the slinkini that Borat wears. Yeah.

• 6:17Chris Plante?

  Yes.

• 6:20Russ Frushtick?

  Chris, why don't you want to tell the people what we're talking about today?

• 6:22Chris Plante?

  So this week we are talking about two, I'm going to say great video games. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say how I feel up top. We've got Gen Shot Attack and we've got Assassin's Creed Black Flag Resigned. People are probably familiar with the Assassin's Creed. This is a remaster remake. Some might even argue sequel. We'll get into. That to Assassin's Creed Black Flag and Denshia Attack, lesser known picture Sonic the Hedgehog 3D era, but good slash a skateboarding game where the skateboard is a subway. And you're, you're, you're basically there or a train, I guess.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Denshia's Japanese for train, right?

• 7:08Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah. Oh shit. Jeff Grubb just pulled some Japanese.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Don't get your hopes up for any more than that.

• 7:14Russ Frushtick?

  Take that plant. I love it.

• 7:16Chris Plante?

  Good stuff.

• 7:18Russ Frushtick?

  That all sounds very exciting. All that and more after this break.

• 7:23Russ Frushtick?

  This episode of the besties is sponsored by Lisa. You know, we are starting to get into the cooler months of the year. And you know what I love in the cool months of the year? An incredibly cozy mattress that you can just cozy up into. You got the blankets and everything. And I will speak from experience, but maybe not my experience because Lisa sent me one of their mattresses. But it was timed as such where actually my son, who was becoming a toddler and needed like an actual bed, needed a mattress. So we had him use the Lisa mattress. And every time that I get into that bed to read him a story at night, I am incredibly jealous

• 8:06Russ Frushtick?

  of his mattress because holy cow, that thing is incredibly comfortable. Lisa was awarded the best hybrid and best memory foam mattress by New York Times Wirecutter and is featured by West Elm as their go to mattress partner. You can go to lisa.com for 25% off select mattresses plus get an extra $50 off with promo code besties. Exclusive to our listeners. That's L E E S A dot com promo code besties for 25% off. Select mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you in the survey after checkout. Lisa.com promo code besties.

• 8:44Russ Frushtick?

  Okay, before, we're gonna start with Dench Attack. Before we dive into it, I do want to call out, we mentioned it last week, but I will reiterate it, and you'll probably hear it a little bit in the coming months. The live show is on, it's happening. You can buy tickets right now for the Besties live show. It's October 9th at the Town Hall in New York City. There will be a link on besties.fan. If you go over there, there will be a pinned post that will have the link, make it very easy for you. Tickets are already selling and great seats are going fast. So please, get your tickets now. And maybe in the chat of besties.fan, people can throw in like, travel tips or hotels they've stayed at before, things like that, that would make the trip better.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  I'm gonna stay at Jeff Bakular's house and not tell him.

• 9:27Russ Frushtick?

  That's fantastic, very close, really not far from where we're doing it. I love that.

• 9:32Chris Plante?

  You guys felt like five blocks east and about 10 blocks south.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  You see a Wingstop hang a left.

• 9:43Russ Frushtick?

  Okay, let's dive into Dench Attack. I played a bunch of this. Chris Plant, you specifically seem pretty hyper-targeted for this game, is that fair to say?

• 9:53Chris Plante?

  Yeah, I, hmm, I am. This should be like, my game of the year. And it might, it might grow on me even more. Right now, I'm enjoying it, but I'm not in a place, well, let's talk, let's talk about what the game is. I don't want to get too, too down the weeds of it. Can you give like, the basic pitch?

• 10:13Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah, sure. So there is, this is like, an imaginary version of Japan, where various people within Japan, it's really hard to like, summarize this, but basically, there's a train culture where people drive trains to make deliveries and like, become celebrities for driving trains. And so, you are going through these, I guess, missions where you're trying to accomplish different feats while driving a train. But the act of driving the train feels closer to like, a Tony Hawk or a Sonic the Hedgehog, than it would be like, a train simulator.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:48Chris Plante?

  It's also a game about layering on your skills, piece by piece. So at first it's just ride the track and learn how to jump over obstacles and then it's learn how to kind of grind into a curve and then it's switch between tracks and then it's add tricks to it. Each time you play, it's getting more and more elaborate. So that by the time you get deep into this game, you're entering that kind of hallucinatory flow state of how is it possible that I am reading all of these cues back to back to back to back. Which again is what Sonic at its best aspires to be.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:29Chris Plante?

  Right?

• 11:29Speaker 01

  From the beginning.

• 11:29Russ Frushtick?

  I don't even know that Sonic ever throws you as many prompts and inputs as this game.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Not consistently the way this game does. No. Yeah.

• 11:38Chris Plante?

  Yeah. Yeah. Jeff, how did it, how did this game hit you?

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the way you were describing it where it's like, I'm enjoying this. I should love it and I think I'm on that trajectory. So I'm not too far into it. I think I'm near the end of like the way the stages work. It's like one dash four dash two. I'm, I'm, I'm nearing the end of, I think of world one, that the first number there. So they're still layering stuff on, on top and I'm, this is laser targeted at someone like me. It's, it's about score attack and I just, I like a video game ass video game and I have, I'm, I'm like very Tony Hawk coded. And I think some of that has maybe worked against this game in the early hour of it, the early hours where, where I am trying to do things, the way I play the game where like, this is very specific, but when I'm in the air

• 12:23Speaker 01

  in any game sort of like this, where it's like an extreme sports game, which I think this kind of is at the end of the day.

• 12:29Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  I'm like, all right, I'm going to prime my next jump when I'm in the air. This game doesn't do that. Like you have to like wait till the train gets back on the track, then you can prime the next jump. So I'm like, okay, that I'll just a little thing that I'm so used to doing from years of Tony Hawk or 1080 or whatever. I need to retrain that. So I'm in the process of doing that. And as I'm doing, I'm like, okay, more and more is beginning to, to, to win me over. And the way I really like to play a game like this is I will get obsessed with one stage and try to perfect a run and see if I can't put up a really high score. And I'm like realizing like. Oh, I just looked at my customized train page and it shows the train I have doesn't have any extra abilities. Like, oh, I'm not using the real train I'm going to be using later on in

• 13:13Speaker 01

  this game to really be doing the high scores. So I might be wasting my time a little bit. I should probably progress through the story and unlock more stuff and then come back to these levels. So I've kind of just had that realization and that's got me back on the flow of going from level to level, which is, it's very fun to get through a level. I just, I will have more fun when I do that perfect run on a stage and I'm competing for scores with my friends.

• 13:40Russ Frushtick?

  I think maybe where it started clicking for me more is less when I was looking at it like a score attack game and more as a platformer.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:48Russ Frushtick?

  And like surviving the platforming challenges that it put in front of me because I was fucking up a lot, like crashing, falling, like slamming to the ground when there was no track, things like that. And the game is very generous in terms of checkpoints. Like it doesn't start you from the beginning. You will start pretty close to where you fell. And just getting through a stage, as you said, was fun, but also I was messing up a lot. And I was kind of okay with that because it was like throwing me a lot of new things and modes and things like that. But it, I think it helped when I stopped looking at the score because invariably I would beat a stage and it would be like one star or whatever, less than that maybe. And I had to sort of like know what's power through

• 14:32Russ Frushtick?

  and keep going. And that, I agree with you. I think that's a good strategy helped because you do get more stuff as you, as you progress. That'll help you score better things.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  I, and I do think like learning, learning those stages and kind of beginning to read stuff early on is the more important part. And, and it is just fun to do the, the, the little challenges that they do put in front of you. Like it gives you a list of stuff and kind of, again, kind of similar to a Tony Hawk game, but in Tony Hawk, like, you know, one plus two or three plus four. Now the games that people, most people would be familiar with, it's like, go do a kickflip over a certain thing in the stage. You're not, you're, you're, you're on track. So then there's a couple of variances throughout each level of like, maybe some areas you can go left. Right. And there will be different challenges hidden on each side of those tracks. But it is stuff like, okay, you're going through a building and it's an office building and you have a horn. So once you go through the building, hit the horn and blow the papers off the thing. It's more like fun little gimmicks.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Keep you engaged in exploring the levels while you're while you're learning them. And I think the idea is, okay, now you do that on the first play through. And then when you do come back later to do the score attack, you can ignore that stuff. And so it's again, like, I'm shifting my focus in that direction. And I find trying to find all of those to be pretty entertaining so far.

• 15:47Chris Plante?

  Tony Hawk wise, what it actually has more in common with is Tony Hawk's downhill jam.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:53Chris Plante?

  Do y'all play those? This was a Wii and a Nintendo DS exclusive.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 15:57Chris Plante?

  Where you didn't have the like open tracks or courses or parks that you had in the main game. It was simply these like. Go bomber run, straight downhill. Try to get that perfect run, but it's going to be more or less the same each time. How you modify it is up to you. And I think that's where I struggle with it, not because it's not great or even exceptional. It's those aren't my favorite types of games. That's not, I am the opposite of of you grab where like. I don't like score attack. I don't like doing the same thing over and over again. I don't like the sense. It's not I don't like, I just have trouble making my brain turn off to allow me to give the time to that.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:43Chris Plante?

  And doing something like this or another game I admire a lot, but. Struggle with is like Thumper or a Guitar Hero, which is another like you're moving down the lane. I, I just can't get myself to chill out and let myself really get good at something. That sounds great. It's just not where my brain is always at. And that's where I think the Sonic comparison kind of. collapses is this is part of a Sonic game, but it's not the entirety of a Sonic game. And what Sonic does well, at least for me, is it breaks these things up. Sometimes you're doing this, sometimes you're slowing her down and you're walking around and exploring.

• 17:27Chris Plante?

  There is a bit of variety, um, which is not what this game is interested in. There is a game very similar to this that I also enjoyed, which is Action Hank. Do you remember this game?

• 17:38Russ Frushtick?

  I do.

• 17:39Chris Plante?

  Yes, uh, it, it was a really interesting game by Rage Squid, released in 2015, where you are this kind of grotesque, I would say like European style cartoon, kind of asterix and obelix, uh, running through little toy sets like, uh, old Hot Wheels. Um, orange, you know, slides and loop de loops. But I, I'm realizing that there is kind of a, a whole genre of this that I, I have always, I always like it. And I, and I could never quite, you know, allow myself to fully dive in.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Reminds me of like going back in like to two, like, uh, Uniracers for Super Nintendo. Like it's got some Uniracers in there for sure.

• 18:24Russ Frushtick?

  I think the, the one thing that stands out to me is presentationally, it might be one of the best indie games I've ever seen in my entire life. Like.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  I mean, we, we've like moved on from like everything's like, you know, I, I don't, I'm not complaining, but everything being a PSX inspired game to, oh yeah. Remember Dreamcast is still very cool and yeah, it is.

• 18:43Russ Frushtick?

  I mean, forget like, like this, I think takes the Dreamcast aesthetic, which it certainly does. It looks like, uh, uh, Jack Ryan radio, but like modernizes it in a way that the game is running at 60 FPS. And you can see all the way into the distance and everything's flying at you at like lightning speed, but it's still like comprehensible. And man, the fact that they pulled this off with like a very small team over, I think the development was like two to three years, something like that. Is unbelievable. There are moments in this, there's a, there's a, there are like splashy moments where you like, jump the train on a Ferris wheel or you're controlling like a, a boat in the middle of a race, things like that. And those moments.

• 19:26Russ Frushtick?

  And I feel a little bit bad saying this, but those moments scratch the same itch of when I'm playing through an uncharted four level where they spent six years on this one 30 second chunk. And the same brain itch is happening by a team of whatever 10 people, five, I don't know how many people, but small, happening on that because of the art design, because of the way it's all presented, like I'm still getting that same charge. And it's a reminder that that splashy thing can be done with much smaller teams if you have a really, really strong art design.

• 20:00Chris Plante?

  Yeah. What they get about the whole Dreamcast aesthetic and is separate from the PS1 thing is Sega knew that the menus mattered, that the stuff between the action had to be as cool.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Style is substance, right? Austin Walker used to say that, like, style is substance and that's what this is. Yeah.

• 20:18Chris Plante?

  And carrying you from one action set piece to the next maintains that that cool factor. The, the game that I most compare this to is Neon White, another game that got that if you want to have these really cool speedruns, then you need to go into these really energetic user interfaces. You need to have the music that is carrying you from moment to moment. You need to have these really beautifully animated sequences. Otherwise, the train stops. And the whole point is that the train needs to keep moving.

• 20:51Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah, I, I'm pretty blown away by it. And I think there is a person out there who is probably about 10 years or maybe 20 years younger than me, that would instantly pick this up and be able to like do all the prompts pretty quickly. Cause it did make me feel very old. But even though I'm fucking up, like I'm still really enjoying myself a lot, mostly because the presentation is so fucking through the roof gorgeous.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  It does feel like that's what they focused on here. It was like they had a game that was gonna be my upset. I'm someone who played a, like one level of Neon White for like 20 hours at least. I'm probably undercutting up like my, the amount of time I actually spent on a singular level in a game like that. And I bet they had that nailed down very early. And I bet that was the part where it's like, that's, that's the easy part. Making this game appealing to anyone, sort of picking it up and giving them something to do and giving them something to feel like they are moving forward and accomplishing something. That does require the synthesis of all of the audio and the visual and the gameplay and the physics all working together. And they really got that right as well. And you could see that, like the reviews have been very positive. People seem to be kind of getting this across the board.

• 21:59Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah, I do think I do miss the like. The freedom that you have in games like Sonic, as you mentioned, Plant and Neon White, where you where you literally can move in any direction you want. There's obviously an ideal location you should be moving in. And I think that's part of the challenge of like, I need to remember, like, there is a more or less a path, like there are branching paths, things like that, but. You are locked to a track for reasonable reasons. So that was, I think, something that I was having a challenge of like wrapping my head around. But. Again, once it started clicking for me, I was really.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  It helped that I just played Sin and Punishment for the N64, which is an unreal sort of treasure shooter. And I always was like, if I'm gonna play a shooter, I want to be able to control my character. And it's like, no, there's so much cool stuff they can do here if they have control of the camera. And that is definitely what they are doing here.

• 22:51Chris Plante?

  Yeah, now I feel like a hypocrite. That's one of my favorite games of all time. I'm gonna dig more into this game and keep it going. I want to carry us to the next section, but there's one last thing I want to say about this game, which is. Good on the creators for having a really wacky, memeable, internet-friendly idea. And then delivering on it, right? There is, this is not squirrel with a gun. And sorry to call it like one specific game, but that one was particularly frustrating. But there are so many times that a thing trends because it's quirky and cute and it's called Den Shat Attack and it's about a.

• 23:27Russ Frushtick?

  Well, and also like in a 10 second clip, looks like the most fun game you've ever seen.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  You can get, you turn this into a gift. Yeah, exactly.

• 23:34Chris Plante?

  And the amount of effort in polish that went into this, because that is the other piece of it, it is polished like a Dreamcast game. It feels like it could have been released on a, say, a console 20 years ago. It's really interesting. That said, I do want to talk about the game that was what I needed while I was sick and was the just wander around game of the year. How about we take a quick break and then we will come back and talk about Assassin's Creed: Black Flag, resynced, no colons involved.

• 24:10Russ Frushtick?

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• 24:54Russ Frushtick?

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• 25:03Chris Plante?

  I used to recommend a VPN to like anybody who is traveling because you'll be, I don't know, in Paris or Tokyo. Look at you, big shot. And you'll want to watch your shows and you won't be able to. You'll need a VPN. But now I recommend a VPN for everybody, whether it is your security or whether it is you live in a state where maybe you can't have access to pretty basic websites without weird security checks and all sorts of other headaches. Proton VPN is a secure VPN service designed for people who want to prioritize their digital privacy and security. It keeps what you do online private and lets you access the internet like it should work. Open.

• 25:44Chris Plante?

  Here and on your terms. Unlike most VPNs, Proton is backed by strong European privacy laws and years of expertise, creating a safer, faster and more open internet for everyone. So whether you want to watch content from anywhere, get around blocked sites, or just keep your activity private on public wifi, Proton VPN has you covered. It is easy to get started. Right now, Proton VPN is offering our listeners 70% off a two-year plan when you go to protonvpn.com/besties. That is P-R-O-T-O-N-V-P-N.com/besties for 70% off

• 26:29Chris Plante?

  your two-year plan. That's protonvpn.com/besties.

• 26:38Chris Plante?

  Okay, oh boy. I'll try to set this up. Assassin's Creed: Black Flag came out like over a decade ago.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  2013. I remember like it being like an Xbox One game that it was 360, but I remember playing on Xbox One because it's like it's coming out alongside the new consoles and there was a version of that ready to go.

• 27:00Chris Plante?

  Yes, one of the earliest games I remember doing previews for at Polygon. A real, oh, I'm getting old when I am playing the remasters of games I remembered covering midway through my career. And that the appeal of Assassin's Creed: Black Flag, both versions, was we're going to take the climbing of Assassin's Creed and we're going to put it in what seems at first like the last place you would want to see it, in the open water is where there are no buildings to climb on. But quickly you realize, no, what is special about this game is twofold. One, ships, these big, beautiful, old ships are fantastic for that feeling of climbing and adventure.

• 27:42Chris Plante?

  And two, by moving it to an island setting, rather than have to design these open worlds that have to illogically all connect, you can create it really intense.

• 27:54Chris Plante?

  Potential spaces for you to explore and it was revelatory, I think, for the series. And it was revelatory in a weird way that they didn't quite learn from it until much later on. I don't think we really see what they were going for until the modern series set in Egypt and ancient Greece. So that's the basic premise.

• 28:20Chris Plante?

  Can one of you explain why this remake exists and why now?

• 28:27Russ Frushtick?

  Money is a good reason.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  I've been able to sell the game again for $60 and get 2 million copies sold in like a day. That's good.

• 28:33Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah, to, I guess, to Ubisoft's credit, like, they have done quite a bit of work to modernize this game, both visually and in terms of the controls, to make it feel like it is not just an HD remaster, which they've done of this game previously. They basically ported over most of the controls that you saw in Assassin's Creed Shadows, which is the newest release that came before this. The visuals instantly look like a modern game, I think.

• 29:02Chris Plante?

  It looks stunning.

• 29:03Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah, it's a very beautiful game. And the original, I think, looks stunning, but obviously if you play it now, it's very easy to see like, oh, there's barely any lighting going on. The textures are pretty flat, the like, random towns that you're in are like, pretty basic comparatively to a modern Assassin's Creed game.

• 29:21Chris Plante?

  The character models look like a wax museum gone wrong.

• 29:24Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah, all that stuff was modernized, but they also took the time to modernize a lot of the missions that were incredibly shitty from the first game. A few things they did, they took out the first person Abstergo nonsense that was in the first game. If you don't remember, you like played as a fucking hacker in Abstergo.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Like go on computer and like read the, the things that were clearly pleased from the game's developers talking about Ubisoft. Absolutely, yeah.

• 29:49Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah, it was funny from a meta standpoint, but from like, oh, I'm loving building my pirate army and then suddenly I'm a fucking office drone, not a great transition. So they took that stuff out. They also adjusted the many like, hide in plain Sight trail these people missions that the original game had.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:07Russ Frushtick?

  Such that originally you'd had to hide like while you were trailing to like overhear what people were saying. And if you got spotted, boom, mission over, you restarted the mission. Huge pain in the ass. Now those missions play out, they start the same way. You're hiding in plain sight, whatever, but if you get spotted, you'll get some clue to be like, oh, I heard that the warden actually has a key. We can go to him.

• 30:29Chris Plante?

  And you just murder everybody.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  And there's also like a dedicated crouch button. So like stealth makes more sense now. Yeah.

• 30:35Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah. Yeah. You're not as reliant on like hiding among a crowd of random people standing there. So all that stuff makes the game feel.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Combat's also just better. Like it's just better combat. Yeah. Like they have parries and stuff, perfect parries. And that stuff's kind of expected at this point. So it's like, almost like they didn't always have that. And that's like, no, it didn't. And that is much improved.

• 30:56Russ Frushtick?

  There's something that Plant mentioned when he started playing it and was like telling me I should really dip in, was how much faster the whole thing feels. And it feels incredibly fast. Not only just the gameplay, which it does, just the pacing of it.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're into it real quick.

• 31:10Russ Frushtick?

  You're into, you're, you're, you have a ship in the first hour and a half. And you're like basically let loose on the open ocean, essentially. Uh, which, which is a big contrast to like a lot of the Assassin's Creed games, which like throat clear for about five hours. Uh, which was nice. Plant, I know you are, you've been waiting with bated breath to talk about how impassioned you are over this release.

• 31:34Chris Plante?

  Well, yes, I do want to talk about these things that are changes though, because that is where I see the biggest gap in opinion. And that is there are people who are now going back and playing the original one and preferring it. There are a number of pieces. I'll make sure that I link them in our show notes that have pointed out these changes do remove some friction that added a lot of character to the game. For example, you climb so fast in this game. You can scale a tower in seconds. And that is great as a gameplay experience. It is less great as an immersion experience.

• 32:16Chris Plante?

  I'm curious, Jeff, for you, like, where did you land on these changes? Because I, I personally found that I didn't mind. I'm also. As I said earlier, very conscious of my time and a game respecting it and letting me enjoy what I I enjoy most about these games, which is like just being in a beautiful tropical setting for, you know, 30 hours.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that I think I might be with you on this one where it's I played the original game when it came out and really enjoyed it and have fond memories of it. You know, it's maybe my second favorite Assassin's Creed. I was always a Brotherhood guy. That was my favorite. But like this one was like, yeah, this is right up there with that. And it was like, oh yeah, I'll go back to that someday. I really liked that game. And then this gets announced and it is kind of the version of the game that I want as someone who played that game within the last 15 years. It's the processed version where it's like, I'm going to be able to digest this very easily. They are removing the points of friction that maybe did give the original character, but I experienced that already. I kind of want to just hit the high notes. So having my ship in the first hour and a half. Yeah, thumbs up. Being able to climb to the

• 33:26Speaker 01

  top of that thing in three seconds. Yeah, I was, I was trying to get up there and I got other stuff going on in my life. Yeah, the processed food version of this game is is kind of what I needed here because does that make it feel like something that we're going to still be talking about a year from now? Probably not, but in the moment of playing it, it does go down very easy. That's what I wanted from it.

• 33:48Russ Frushtick?

  I mean, easier than I would say even Assassin's Creed Shadows, which I think is the like, the thing to remember is why this game works for me is because the minute to minute works really well. There's like a somewhat engaging narrative, sort of, but the, the big part and why I think you like Brotherhood as well, is there's a meta that is super engaging where you're building up the ship and building up your team of guys. And that feels like there's no downtime where you're going from gameplay into ship play into gameplay into ship play and you're constantly like feeling that power curve, but also just enjoying the sights and sounds that you're experiencing.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  And this game also runs on Steam Deck, so it's very easy for me to play it on my time.

• 34:30Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah, I mean, that's a huge thing as well. Like they, they built it in us with a scalable engine. And I think we're going to see more and more of this. We've talked about, we talked about a bit when talking about the steam machine where granted, it's not the highest of high end computers, but I think more and more studios are going to make games that allow them to run on. Not the highest Nvidia card imaginable.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  It'd be silly to do that at this point.

• 34:55Russ Frushtick?

  Yes, incredibly silly to do that. And I think those days of like Crytek fucking bragging about you have to spend $3,000 on a computer to run our game.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  That's just a computer now. Yeah, that's just a regular computer.

• 35:08Chris Plante?

  Okay, I'll now do my why the game is brilliant spiel, which is because this game was made a long time ago in video game, you know, time, weirdly, they are more comfortable editing it in the way that I feel like we're always begging these publishers to edit their games, to make choices that simplify them in ways that are helpful and beneficial to the story, to make them move at a reasonable pace, but also to remove just filler. And they've been toying with this idea of a kind of like immersion mode in Assassin's Creed games. Assassin's Creed Shadows had this where it's like, hey, you can basically turn off the UI and or you'll

• 35:51Chris Plante?

  go into like a castle and maybe you'll find a character and then you'll get a clue and that'll kind of give you a little dot on the map of where to go, which is really neat. But the games themselves are so big and so dense that actually getting those things to trigger can be a pain. Where in this game, where you will start, and I believe the minimap is off by default, you kind of are playing a version of this immersion mode, but because the game is very small compared to these modern games, because each setting is kind of its own standalone experience, you really do feel dropped in. So I do think this game

• 36:33Chris Plante?

  is absolutely stunning to look at. I think it's incredible. They've said that because each setting is its own unique place, they are allowed to just cram in so much more detail even than they did with Shadows. But also, I think the fact that it feels designed to put you in the space and to make you feel like you are actually visiting rather than just checking off boxes on your to-do list, that feels so refreshing. And again, part of that is trimming things down. Part of it is, this is before the glut just got so, so, so, so out of control. And it's strange

• 37:15Chris Plante?

  to go and play a game like this one that, to me, feels more modern than modern video games. And that's weird. Like, that is, it shows just how much money and effort is being wasted on these games, on stuff that is making them demonstrably worse. It's a bummer, and it feels like a lesson that's being learned too late.

• 37:41Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah, I think that if you're playing this with like a modern eye, you could point out like, oh, from a design standpoint, this room should have more fucking pots in it, or whatever. Like, not every room has that level of attention you would necessarily see in a modern game. But we don't care. And it goes back to my point about the impact. Like, you're still capturing that spirit of a very, very expensive game in a game that came out 15 years ago, because it has that art design, because it has that overall flow and theming that supports it, even though it doesn't have the ultra-high fidelity that you would get from a Naughty Dog experience. And that's okay. That's fine.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  And I do think like, when games get made today, they are being made with this idea in mind. And I think like Starfield was the one that like suffered from this the most of, we are making the forever game. We're making the game that's going to last 10 years. And, and I think every Assassin's Creed game, after a certain point, was trying to do that, despite the fact that they knew another Assassin's Creed game was coming out in the next year and a half. This one was still made in that time. It's like, there's going to be another Assassin's Creed next year. So we can kind of really just focus on what we're doing here. And then we did get to like, 2014, 2015, 2016, where games did start to come out at a point where it's like, Witcher Here and Witcher three is just gonna keep selling forever and and we're gonna we're not just gonna like make new Witcher games, which we will eventually do.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  10 years later, we're gonna make a new expansion for the Witcher three.

• 39:07Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  It's like things shifted really quickly around this time. It's like we we reached a a sort of there was the the end of the ramp for graphical progression. Like the RX 480 came out in 2016 and that like did 1080 60 in just about every game and still kind of does. And and it's like, okay, so what are we gonna do to make these games stand out? And everyone had the same same thing in mind. Bigger, bigger, more, just filled with more stuff. We gotta spend, you know, countless person hours making as much content for these games as possible. And now we've reached the logical conclusion of that, which was unsustainability, as everyone was shouting back then. And now here we are. And it's like, everyone's kind of like stepping back going like, what were games like just before this?

• 39:52Speaker 01

  And it was this sort of end of that ramp of they learned so much about making video games in a really sleek way. Well, still getting bigger and bigger, but they reached this like nice balance point. And I do think Assassin's Creed Black Flag was like a game that represented that in a really strong way. And so kind of bypassing that and just attaching on the modern elements that make games smoother to play today. While keeping the skeleton really does show the strengths of what we were doing then and kind of the weaknesses of of the way games have been made in the last 10 years.

• 40:24Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah, I completely agree.

• 40:25Chris Plante?

  I I I don't want everything to be sequels, but also I know what Ubisoft is. Like, I know that we're getting sequels or remakes in some form anyway.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:36Chris Plante?

  If they're gonna do that, I would love for them to do the DLC for this Freedom Cry.

• 40:42Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah.

• 40:43Chris Plante?

  Also Rogue, the sequel to this, which is, I think Steven Tantillo's favorite Assassin's Creed game, a previous guest of the show. There are there are games that people just didn't play in this universe. Or at least the large audiences did not play and and the opportunity to bring those back.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  What was Rogue's like release thing? It was it was the Xbox 360 and PS3. Only at the time game while there was another newer Assassin's Creed for the next gen consoles? Is that how?

• 41:17Chris Plante?

  Yes, I believe it was that that was like, if you want to go play Assassin's Creed on the previous hardware.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:24Chris Plante?

  You're still playing.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  A game for you.

• 41:25Chris Plante?

  And you can have this.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:27Chris Plante?

  And it's like, it's a sequel to Black Flag, like you will love it. Um, and I think it was maybe higher praised at the time.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:35Chris Plante?

  Um, yeah, it's, it's a really, it's a really interesting for, for where Ubisoft is. It does feel, I fear, a bit too little, too late. Um, I don't know, like if this is the sort of thing that's going to pull them out of their, their rut.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  I mean, they don't think it is them and they come immediately started laying people off. Right. They didn't, they didn't take this team or one of the teams that supported this and like, all right, get to work remaking five other of these, just like Capcom has done to great success. It's like, we made some money with this game.

• 42:10Russ Frushtick?

  This feels like CPR.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:11Russ Frushtick?

  Right now. Uh, it's very good CPR.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:14Russ Frushtick?

  But yeah, I, I do worry certainly about the, the future of this company. Uh, and any AAA company for that matter.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 42:21Russ Frushtick?

  Uh, okay. Cool. Uh, we do have some reader mail. I want to dive into that, uh, real quick. This first letter comes from Clayton. We were talking about Delta Rune, chapter five. I want to say they're at chapter five now. Uh, Plant and I still haven't really started it, any of the chapters. So there was some debate about like whether, how we would do that. Clayton writes, a note for anyone debating if they want to wait for all the Delta Rune to come out before starting, the difficulty really starts to ramp up with each chapter. And when you're rusty, it can be very frustrating. If you're like me and this bullet hell skill does not come to you naturally, you might want to wait because I had to resort to watching the end on YouTube. Wow. I didn't realize that. That's interesting. We have another letter. This one comes from Chris F. about Rhythm Heaven.

• 43:06Russ Frushtick?

  Did you play Rhythm Heaven, Jeff?

• 43:07Speaker 01

  I did. I loved it. I reviewed it. Yes.

• 43:08Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah, I thought it was really good. "It seems to me what's special about Rhythm Heaven is that it's not a game primarily about responding to prompts on the screen. There are no button icons or string of jewels that make elite beat agents or rock band mostly a test of hand-eye coordination. Rhythm Heaven is about learning the sound prompts that tell you when to respond. It's about hand-ear coordination." Whoa. "Then that necessitates a unique, uh, unique features in the series. The in-depth tutorials, you need to hear the sound prompts multiple times to get them in your head, the relative simplicity of the songs, and the simplicity of input. Long story short, I'd argue Rhythm Heaven is probably the most musical of the Rhythm franchises." That's a good argument.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, it's like, um, it's very, it, it actually is very deep despite not appearing so. And it like, and it like, it kind of gets to what, it does what it's trying to do very well, which is just give you an experience of what it's like to get in rhythm with a band. And the game is the band and, and you get to play your part and your part is actually the key part. And it's, it's, it's crucial and they give you a bunch of on-screen fun stuff happening, but you can play the game with your eyes closed because you're just listening for that music. And that's, and kind of giving a bunch of different expressions of that idea throughout the course of playing that game. It's, uh, it's really well done.

• 44:24Chris Plante?

  Yeah. I got one more question here that I want to make sure we share, which is from Alex. "Hey guys, popping in with a question. What's a game that will help me get better at gaming? My brothers live across the country and we often play together as a way to still hang out, but I feel bad that we either have to always resort to friend slop type games because of my skill level or I'm the weakest link on the ship while we sail the high seas and sea of thieves. We still have a blast, but I'd really love to be able to feel like I'm contributing when we play. Love the show."

• 44:53Speaker 01

  There's, there's like two things here, right? Like what, what are you bad about when it comes to games? Cause there is the, there's the clicking on heads and shooting them. And then there is the understanding what the game is trying to communicate. And they're, they're two very different things. If you're, if you're lacking in skill of like on the controller, being able to make the character jump when you need to, I mean, just play more of the game you're trying to get good at. Probably just is the answer. Uh, there are like aim, aim, like, uh, test games that you can get on Steam. If that's what's happening, but if it's about like understanding the world, um, I don't like spending like a month in an MMO will put you in so many different kinds of, of quests that, uh, that you will eventually just understand the language

• 45:33Speaker 01

  of how video games are made by the end of that, uh, almost certainly. So yeah, those would be my recommendations. It's, it's a little bit difficult though.

• 45:41Russ Frushtick?

  I would even say like Assassin's Creed, we synced that we just played is like a pretty good example of that. Cause it really throws you so many different curveballs of gameplay and things like that. But mostly like, I would say if you're getting very stressed out because you feel like you're not doing a good job, just understand that most people play video games with their friends because it's fun to spend time with your friends. And the video games are the secondary thing.

• 46:05Chris Plante?

  Yeah. The, the fact that you say that you are like having a nice time, sounds great. And, and maybe the pressure that you are feeling, nobody else is even thinking about.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's probably the truth.

• 46:19Chris Plante?

  The other thing that you can do, but I would still emphasize exactly what fresh said of like, feel good. And also just, just be in the game, watching a video that's like 15 things I wish I knew before I played blank.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Good point.

• 46:34Chris Plante?

  Is good because games are not always great at communicating just the basics of what they want you to accomplish. It's very weird. We'll spend, you know, 15 minutes teaching you how to crouch and jump, which you've already probably not to do, but we won't tell you how like the systems work.

• 46:50Russ Frushtick?

  How to unsheathe a sword. Like they'll forget some like very important.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Or if they do, they do it like with like one, like one style of communicating that. And it's like, I definitely need it like. On screen, written out, say it, show it to me, give me a chance to play around with it. I need multiple modes there to get across those ideas and games don't usually do that.

• 47:09Chris Plante?

  Yeah.

• 47:09Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah. Good letter. That is very interesting. Good letters overall. Thank you everyone for submitting that. You can, if you ever want to write us notes, you can drop them into the newsletter at besties.fan. If you're a member of the Patreon, you could send us DMs if you have any questions there. But yeah, those are the two best places to reach us for reader mail.

• 47:32Russ Frushtick?

  Any honorable mentions? Jeff, this can be a movie, it could be a book, it could be a board game, it could be a great toenail cutter that you've been using. I don't know.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  I will go with another video game right now just because it is the first thing that came to mind when you said that. Heave Ho 2 is coming out. Have you guys, have you guys seen Heave Ho? Have you played Heave Ho before?

• 47:53Russ Frushtick?

  I have not played it. I am aware that Heave Ho 2 is about to launch.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  Yes, this is a cooperative or competitive multiplayer, kind of like a, definitely friend-slop adjacent. Where you are just a little guy with arms and you have to sort of like work with your friends to swing across gaps and create little bridges. And there's a fart button and you can charge the farts. So it's like you could be working together.

• 48:19Russ Frushtick?

  Kiermaier is smiling somewhere.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Right. And then the little demon inside of you could take over and be like, but what if I just let off a really big fart and blew us all apart and caused us to fail? And that's fun too. They got some nice competitive modes. It's almost like there's some races, there's some weird physics versions of Tower Fall and they just really kind of know what they're doing. And it was immediately fun when I played it with the guys over at Giant Bomb. So yeah, check that out.

• 48:44Chris Plante?

  That rocks.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 48:46Chris Plante?

  I've got one. Y'all remember Battle Chess?

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:50Chris Plante?

  Battle Chess was chess, but what if we animated it and you could see, you know, the pieces really like kick each other's ass back in the early 90s. This is a DOS game. Well, in a way, Battle Chess is back, except for now it is cat chess, where you can play chess with beautifully CGI-style animated cats. And that is it, as far as I can tell. Nothing more, nothing less. It costs seven bucks and it is just a very adorable, sassy cat version of chess

• 49:29Chris Plante?

  that is now on Steam. The animation is DreamWorks chic, Illumination chic, I would say. And it is, it's a delight.

• 49:42Russ Frushtick?

  Cool. Last update for me is Blueprints. It's a first-person exploration house game. I'm on day, Jeff, I don't know if you're aware, but the colorblindness forced me to wait a year before playing this game.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  You were just talking about this and I'm like, why did he wait? And then you mentioned that. Yes, of course.

• 49:59Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah. So I waited a year and I've been playing through with my wife. We're on day like 71. Momentous day, and I'm sorry that Griffin wasn't able to make it today because this is the day where I tell you that I did ask for help after 71 days.

• 50:17Chris Plante?

  Wow.

• 50:17Russ Frushtick?

  The help that I asked for, and again, I'll keep this relatively spoiler light, was specifically regarding the notes that you find once you unlock blue tents, which for people that have played Blueprints will know what the fuck that means. For people that haven't, I mean, even people that haven't gone to the end game might not know, but I'm not going to tell you what that is, but there are like 60 to them and only four of them are helpful for the purposes of like progressing what you're trying to progress. And I did multiple runs where we were just focused on blue tense notes and not getting anything. And eventually I broke and I asked a friend of the show, Jason Schreier, which rooms I should be chasing for the blue tense notes. And so I, that was the help that I got.

• 51:03Russ Frushtick?

  Wasn't a lot, but it was enough that like, I didn't have to do 12 runs of just grinding those fucking notes to find something useful. So I, I wanted to be honest on the show. It's a show about honesty, but that's where I'm at. And now I'm, I'm on the hunt for the next step. I know more or less what I think I should be doing. So we're gonna, we're gonna see how that plays out.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Man, what a game.

• 51:25Russ Frushtick?

  What a game. Okay. I think that did it. Jeff, thank you so much for joining us. I know people can find you over at Giant Bomb.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. If you're in Portland, I'm gonna be at Mysterium, which is a MIST convention next weekend, not the, so the week.

• 51:39Russ Frushtick?

  Good segue from Blue.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Maybe that's what reminded me. It's the weekend of the, the 24th. We have a panhole on the 25th, the MIST to Busters, which is the crew of guys that were playing MIST on Giant Bomb recently. And so, uh, yeah, go to that. I think there's tickets still available. Small, little convention out in Portland. It's a, it's a lot of fun.

• 51:58Russ Frushtick?

  That's fucking awesome.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're very excited about it.

• 52:01Russ Frushtick?

  Uh, I wanted to thank the folks over at patreon.com slash the besties. Uh, some recent backers include Justin G, Bill with several L's, Corey S, and Nimbus. Thank you for being backers and thank you to everyone else for being backers over at patreon.com slash the besties. Uh, next week, I'm gonna say TBD. There's a couple of games that I think we're gonna check out, but with Griffin being out today, I didn't want to finalize it. So TBD, there will be things. Griffin should be back next week and we'll, we'll enjoy those games together. But for, for now, I wanted to thank you all for being with us on the besties. Because shouldn't the best friends play the world's best games?

• 52:45Chris Plante?

  You kinda got it.

• 52:47Russ Frushtick?

  Yeah.

• 52:47Chris Plante?

  Besties!

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Besties!

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Besties!