Robin Arzón On Turning Doubt Into Determination & Plateaus Into Launching Pads

Robin Arzón -- the inspiring and highly energetic self-proclaimed ambassador of sweat and swagger is back for her fourth appearance on the podcast. A former corporate lawyer with degrees from NYU and Villanova Law, Robin transformed herself into a global fitness icon and everybody’s favorite Peloton instructor—the company where she also holds the title of Vice President of Fitness Programming and Head Instructor. In 2020 Robin was named one of the most influential people on Fortune Magazine’s 40 Under 40 list. Robin is also a two-time New York Times bestseller of Shut Up And Run, and her latest book, Strong Mama. Finally, she recently launched a Master Class on all things mental strength. Today’s episode is also viewable on YouTube. More about Robin + show notes: https://bit.ly/richroll691 I adore Robin. She never fails to ignite the best in us all. If this conversation leaves you inspired, there is more where that came from in RRP #99, RRP #137 & RRP #230. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  I do love hustling. I define hustle as grit and work ethic meeting your definition of success and purpose. And I think those two combined create a beautiful momentum. But I don't believe in redlining, obviously, and that no pain, no gain mentality is harmful. But we do have to have an element of grit and work ethic still. Listen, you gotta start with one. If you don't like something, change it. I think that excuses are lies that we tell ourselves convincingly. So start with one. Literally, start with one. Like lace up, do one block, do one Peloton workout, like do one. And that's why I say that confidence is a side effect of hustle, because when you take

• 1:49Speaker 01

  those little nibbles of hustle, you discover that you really have the power all along. And then that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And when you realize that you are a self-generated factory of power, yeah, your life changes. When you develop an appetite for your own power, mediocrity doesn't taste so good anymore.

• 2:23Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. This is Rich Roll. I am your host and you are in for a treat today because Robin Arzon herself, the inspiring and highly energetic self-proclaimed ambassador of sweat and swagger, is back, back for her fourth appearance on the podcast to drop truth bombs and deliver the goods on time. For those newer to the show, Robin is a former lawyer with degrees from NYU and Villanova Law, turned global fitness icon, marathoner and ultramarathoner. She was named one of the most influential people on Fortune Magazine's 40 Under 40

• 3:05Rich Roll?

  list in 2020 and is currently the Vice President of Fitness Programming and Head Instructor at Peloton, everybody's favorite home fitness obsession. In addition, Robin is a two-time New York Times Bestseller. Her books include Shut Up and Run and her latest children's book, Strong Mama. And she also has a masterclass on mental strength. A few more things to add before we get into it, but first.

• 3:41Rich Roll?

  Okay, Robin, so we cover a lot of ground on this one, in addition to simply just catching up on her life since we last sat down six years ago. I can't believe it was that long ago. We discuss the hows and whys of developing mental strength, the importance of unapologetically owning your story. We discuss pre and postnatal fitness. We talk about how to say no and own your yeses. We cover life pivots, how to begin a fitness journey, and many other topics. I absolutely adore Robin. She never fails to ignite. And I should mention that if this conversation leaves you inspired, as I suspect it will, there's much more where

• 4:24Rich Roll?

  that came from. You can check out RRP 99, RRP 137, and RRP 230, links to which you can find in the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com. Okay, let's do the thing. This is me and Robin Arzon.

• 4:46Rich Roll?

  Robin Arzon, it has been many years. You've been on the show three times. We were just chatting before the podcast, but all of those episodes were in New York City and generally under super cramped conditions from one tiny hotel room to your tiny apartment back in the day. So it's good to actually have you here in the studio in Los Angeles. Welcome. I can't wait to catch up with you.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  It feels good. Congrats on this space. It's stunning.

• 5:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, thank you. We love it and it's just allowed us to grow and do all the things that we're going to talk about today.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:23Rich Roll?

  I was reflecting back on when we first met. You remember that, right?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it was in Vegas.

• 5:28Rich Roll?

  In Las Vegas for that Tony Shay Zappos weekend. I'm not sure exactly what that was, but it was super fun. Amanda Slavin put that whole thing together.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  I remember.

• 5:37Rich Roll?

  We connected and we each got up and gave little talks and we got to spend a bunch of time touring that area of downtown Las Vegas and kind of what that Zappos community had created. And I just remember, we were both very early in our journeys, but I remember like thinking, this girl's a star. Like she's going to be huge. And it's been so fun to watch you blossom over the years into what can be characterized as only like legitimate celebrity. Like you're on the Today Show all the time. You're in People Magazine. Like it's crazy.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Things have...

• 6:08Rich Roll?

  You know, like, do you have, do you have perspective on that? Like it's wild to have watched your arc.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  I guess I have perspective, but then also not. I'm just in my...

• 6:20Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. Doing your thing.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  In my flow. Like I'm super in alignment and that feels... Yeah, I try to zoom out. I find that ambitious folks don't, um, are always on to the next thing without really having that moment of awe, which is really rewarding. So I try to press the pause button, but I'm not very good at that.

• 6:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  I'm always on to the next.

• 6:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah. It's important though. Let me reflect it back to you because I do remember early on, and you had game. It's not like nothing was going on back then, but the difference between then and now is pretty significant and you deserve it. Like you owned it. And I just remember back then... This sense of you standing in your strength and having a certain knowingness about like where you were headed with a vision and you executed on that vision.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Thanks, man. It feels really, it does feel, it does feel good. And I remember meeting you after your keynote at the Vegas thing. And being like, just being so in awe of like, because I had already read your book and I already knew about you in the ultra world. So it's fun to see my friends win, you know? And, and you're definitely, you're slaying it.

• 7:40Rich Roll?

  Well, you're somebody who's always been really good about cheering for other's successes. And, you know, it's easy to fall prey to competitiveness or pettiness. Like, why is that person getting that and why am I not getting this? But I've just found that when I'm in gratitude and I am cheering for my friends to win, like the pie just expands.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 8:03Rich Roll?

  It's like getting over that idea of a zero sum game. I think is really important in terms of just not only feeling good about yourself, but being in that expansive growth mindset.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Definitely. I mean, for sure. Yeah, I subscribe to a growth mindset. But I also just want to feel feelings that are good for my immune system. And when I'm in that like place, if I, if I'm in an envious place, I either use the envy as a clue or I keep it moving. Like, if it's not helping me and it's not strengthening my spirit, I just, I can't.

• 8:39Rich Roll?

  Well, one of the things you have said, which is interesting, is you have this sort of counter take on jealousy, right? Like how to use, like if you're feeling jealous, that's an indication of what you want. Like pay attention to that, like perhaps don't descend into envy, but figure out what it is about that other person that's making you jealous and fix that within yourself.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've used that. I mean, that was one of the biggest clues when I was a lawyer. That was one of the biggest clues that I should no longer be practicing law. Cause I was looking at my friends who had freer schedules or more creative pursuits or were, you know, athletes. And I thought, I was so envious of that and that was a huge clue.

• 9:19Rich Roll?

  Well, maybe let's back it up a little bit. You've been on the show three times, so longtime listeners know your backstory, but the show's a lot larger now. And I think it would be helpful to just recap some of that backstory to contextualize what we're going to talk about.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 9:34Rich Roll?

  So go for it. Wherever you want to start. I don't know. You probably get asked this a lot, but I think it's important. Like, you were a corporate lawyer, you had this traumatic event occur, and it kind of set in motion you thinking more deeply about who you wanted to be and what you wanted to do with your life.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. And I used, so I was held up at gunpoint in New York City when I was in my early twenties. And I used, having never been an athlete, never run a single mile before this incident. And then during law school, I used movement to heal. And I really healed myself through the runs. And I did talk therapy and, you know, the stuff that trauma survivors are quote unquote supposed to do. But I found that the runs were the most healing for me. And I started running a ton of marathons, some ultra marathons, and then ultimately left law. And I am, found my way into wellness. I'm a leader in wellness. I'm vice president of fitness programming at Peloton, head instructor, an author, a

• 10:36Speaker 01

  mother, a, I mean, I'm like a classic multi hyphenate. So we're a bunch of hats. But yeah, that's kind of my game now.

• 10:46Rich Roll?

  You hitched yourself up to the right horse with Peloton because you were at the very, very beginning of that. And it must be equally gratifying to see how Peloton has exploded and become this thing. Because I don't know that early on, there was indications that it would be as successful as it has become.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I really did see the vision and I continue to see the vision. It's, I mean, the plan is global domination.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  I think that's Peloton's plan and that's my personal plan.

• 11:17Rich Roll?

  Right. So walk me through the evolution of Peloton from the beginning of getting involved to how it's matured into what it is today.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Well, initially, it was a bike company. It was a spin studio in Chelsea. And there was always a connected hardware and software component to it. But I was the second, no, I was the second or third instructor hired and very much in the nascent of this company. And it was very interesting pivoting during the pandemic because we had already been accustomed to teaching to a little red dot when that camera goes on.

• 12:02Rich Roll?

  So the cameras were part of it from the get go?

• 12:04Speaker 01

  From the beginning.

• 12:06Rich Roll?

  And people forget that at that time, SoulCycle dominated everything. And there was this notion of like, well, who's Peloton? Like, why would you go there? There's SoulCycle.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the industry was really running as a studio business with a real estate model. Like, if you didn't have X amount of footprints in however many cities, you were irrelevant. And Peloton really changed that paradigm.

• 12:30Rich Roll?

  Right. So was there an inflection point where it tipped over, where, I don't know, suddenly you get recognized on the street or something like that? How was it? What was the evolution of that where you realized like, oh, this is like way bigger than perhaps I thought it might be when I first got involved?

• 12:48Speaker 01

  The leaderboard started growing. I remember I had a moment, one of my Thanksgiving classes, maybe in 2016 or 2017, had like more members on live than Madison Square Garden.

• 13:08Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  That felt like, oh, snap, that's kind of wild.

• 13:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  And it's been growing ever since. Now, you know, now we've got like millions, over six million members.

• 13:19Rich Roll?

  And the pandemic just accelerated the whole thing, of course. Yeah. And so what is it like now?

• 13:25Speaker 01

  We have a new studio called Peloton Studios New York. So we have Peloton Studios New York, and then we have PSL, which is in London. So two flagships.

• 13:34Rich Roll?

  So it's not in Chelsea anymore, in that same place that I went to?

• 13:37Speaker 01

  No, we have a beautiful new facility in Hudson Yards.

• 13:40Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  And yeah, we have, we film yoga out of there. We film strength. We film tread. We film cycling. We even have like an audio only kind of setup. We're all run on a tread and just record the audio for our app. So it's a full-blown, I mean, we have, I can't even, I don't even know how many hours of live tape we have. I mean, we're essentially a network.

• 14:07Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah, there must be thousands and thousands of hours of archived classes, right?

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:13Rich Roll?

  And so in addition to being, you know, head instructor, what is the role that you play as VP within the company? Like, what does that look like?

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, my executive function is within the content department. So the chief content officer is my boss. And I am an advocate, I guess, for the talent and as well as an intermediary, whether it's with marketing, whether it's with our engineering folks, our product team. You know, if a fitness expertise is required, I'm usually the voice in that meeting, in that room.

• 14:45Rich Roll?

  And are you helpful with like finding the other experts out there to hire for these, you know, particular, specific roles?

• 14:52Speaker 01

  I don't, as it relates to instructors, yes. I mean, I'm usually one of the last interviews for blessing somebody to come onto the team.

• 15:01Rich Roll?

  What's the question you ask these people?

• 15:06Speaker 01

  I'm kind of a hard-

• 15:07Rich Roll?

  I know, like, yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  I'm a tough interviewer.

• 15:10Rich Roll?

  If the buck stops with you, if you're the last stop on the train, like, what does that look like? This young person comes in, you know, with ideas of grandeur, like, I'm going to be a Peloton instructor, and then you drop the gauntlet on them?

• 15:23Speaker 01

  It's not so much a gauntlet as it is listening to my gut instinct because there's-

• 15:34Speaker 01

  There's always a little bit of artifice, right? In an interview, because you're putting your best foot forward. But it can't be like, I'm auditioning for a role in a movie, right? Because after thousands of hours of teaching a class, that's gonna erode. And you're gonna see, what's the kernel really there? And there needs to be a point of view. Of course, there's an expertise. I mean, that's like, you wouldn't even audition unless you have, you know, a pedigree of athleticism and expertise.

• 16:00Rich Roll?

  But you need that authentic charisma.

• 16:03Speaker 01

  You have to be able to host a television show, unscripted, while sprinting.

• 16:07Rich Roll?

  Right. That's a very specific skill set.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:13Rich Roll?

  When I see you doing your thing, like, it does look so natural. It is who you are. It's an extrapolation of your personality. But it's so high energy. And me being much more of an introvert, I think, there's gotta be days where she wakes up and she's like, I really don't, I'm not up for it today. And you gotta go and do the thing, right?

• 16:31Speaker 01

  You gotta do the thing. I definitely have days, but I love it. I am so charged by what I get to do every day. It's insane. Like, sometimes I'm like, wait, so they're just giving me a microphone? It's, now that the scale is growing to what it is, and it really is like a network, I'm like, wait, we're still doing this thing? Like, you're gonna mic me up, and the red light goes on, and we're just off? And that is really thrilling.

• 17:00Rich Roll?

  How much prep do you put into what you're gonna say? The playlist, like, all that kinda stuff that goes into the classes?

• 17:08Speaker 01

  The playlist and the class plan are locked. So I will know, you know, exactly what I'm doing. Especially in a class that is more fitness-focused. If it's a HIIT class, if it's a Tabata class, I've been very prescriptive with that game plan. In terms of messaging and talking points, that's always, like, 99% extemporaneous. I might have, like, bullets, like, I wanna talk about mental focus, or I wanna talk about grit. Or I'll mention, like, remember this story, you know, about X moment? But that's it. That's as detailed as it gets for me.

• 17:39Rich Roll?

  So just get a little elevated heart rate, and it just, you're in the flow.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Flow, flow state. I mean, the definition of flow state is what I'm teaching.

• 17:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:47Rich Roll?

  Have you ever had a moment, though, where you just blanked?

• 17:50Speaker 01

  No, not really. No, I'm so focused. I'm so hyper aware of everything that's going on.

• 17:58Rich Roll?

  It's crazy how personal the relationship is between the participant and the instructor. Like every, I'm sure you've heard these stories a million times, like, oh, you're my friend, or you're the per, like, I have, you know, my deepest relationship is with my Peloton instructor. Everybody has their favorite, you know, it's this weird, it is very much like a cultish thing.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  It is. It is. And now that the world is opening up again, you know, we, Peloton instructors had lots of interactions with folks publicly pre pandemic, but now that the world is opening up again, it's almost like people have this pent up emotion globally. And then when you see someone who you did have like intimate workout experiences with, you know, in your home, when we were all collectively grieving and going through a lot, the outpouring of emotion that happens merely on a daily basis is pretty intense. Like many, many tears, many tears.

• 18:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah. How does that make you feel?

• 19:00Speaker 01

  There's a vulnerability that is like, kind of jarring in a way to be like in front of that kind of emotion is pretty intense. But also I totally get it because I have used the bike and used my teammates classes truly to deal with a lot of heavy stuff. So I do, so I understand.

• 19:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's like you're the face, but it represents something bigger, which is that was a really hard year, two years, and this person helped me get through it by leading me through this routine that was so instrumental and kind of kept me grounded. And that is very emotional. So there's an intimacy to it, right? It's not like, it's different from a movie star, like, oh, wow, that, I've seen that person on a huge screen and they're very good looking and charismatic versus like, this person actually helped me. So I would suspect like it removes the creepy aspect of it. Maybe it's a little encroaching and, you know, boundary pushing a little bit, but at the same time, there's something so beautiful about it.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  It's largely beautiful. I mean, sometimes there's a little bit of like. Boundaryless interaction, for sure. For the most part, it's really stunning to witness.

• 20:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, you're good with boundaries, though. You're the queen of no. Let's talk about no a little bit. Like, I'm still working out my no's.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  I love no, no is my favorite word.

• 20:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. I use my no to protect my yes. I say no to most things. And I am pretty famous for slashing, like, somebody tried to put a 90-minute calendar appointment on my calendar next week, and I was like, that's literally not gonna happen ever. Like, I'm maybe giving you 25 minutes. And I really own my no to protect the yes.

• 20:56Rich Roll?

  How do you know when it's a yes? What's the rule?

• 20:59Speaker 01

  It's a hell yes, or it's a no thanks. If it doesn't feel like a hell yes, especially since becoming a mother, if something doesn't feel like it's lighting me up, then it's a no.

• 21:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  And of course, there's the stuff, like, you pay your taxes. You do, you know, there's stuff that doesn't feel great to do, but it's moving the needle.

• 21:16Rich Roll?

  You're talking about, like, opportunities that come your way.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:19Rich Roll?

  The bigger that you get, the cooler the opportunities are, and the more tempting they are. And that hell yes, it can be a hell yes, but also, like, this is a distraction from what I'm actually trying to do, or it's gonna take me away from being a mother, or those other things. That's when it gets really hard and confusing. Like, hey, do you want a first-class ticket to go to Dubai and do this cool, you know, like, you're like, yeah, I'd like to do that. But then you're like, yeah, that's really gonna screw my stuff up. Like, I probably shouldn't do that.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 21:48Rich Roll?

  It's hard. This is, these are problems of abundance, you know? These are problems of privilege, of course. But I've experienced it, and I'm not as great with the no. It's hard, because I want to do all the cool stuff.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you gotta exercise.

• 22:04Rich Roll?

  And then I spread myself thin, and then I, like, burn out, and I have all these other problems.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, but that's so not worth it. I think about the version of myself at the end of that journey, as much as I, you know, to the extent that I can contemplate, you know, things that I haven't experienced yet. And I think about, you know, the burnout version of myself, that I have so much grace and compassion for that version of myself.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Largely when I was doing like the 80 hour lawyer weeks.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Any element of that like threatens who I like, it just shakes me to my core to even go back there. And I love.

• 22:44Rich Roll?

  Meaning like when you were doing the 80 hour weeks and not having agency over your time.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was a powerlessness as well as just true fatigue, you know? And I love, I do love hustling. There is, I feel like the pendulum has swung that now like hustle is a dirty word and people are like, and I'm like, where's your work ethic? Like, give me a friggin break, you know? So you just have to be in, I define hustle as grit and work ethic, meeting your definition of success and purpose. And I think those two combined create a beautiful momentum. But I don't believe in redlining, obviously, and that no pain, no gain mentality is harmful. But we do have to have an element of grit and work ethic still.

• 23:31Rich Roll?

  A hundred percent.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  So it's finding the balance.

• 23:32Rich Roll?

  I think that pendulum has swung a little bit too far where it's like, don't hustle. Make sure that you're resting. It's like, look, sleep's important, recovery, all these things are important. But a lot of the people that are over indexing on that don't have any of the hustle to begin with and could use a little bit of that.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, the listlessness, the like.

• 23:55Rich Roll?

  It's sort of rubber stamping or permitting you to kind of be the lazy person that you have been historically.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:03Rich Roll?

  If it's misused.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  It like makes me break out into hives, like I actually cannot, I can't, I can't.

• 24:12Rich Roll?

  So what is the, you know, I know you hate this word balance, but like, what is the fulcrum point on that for you? Like it's changed, I want to talk about you being a mother, but obviously, you know, being a mother to, to an infant, you know, changes that equation quite a bit.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  I just, I don't believe in balance. I don't believe that, okay, I think balance is a harmful concept when we perceive it to be an even Steven. That like, everything gets the same percentage of your 24 hour day or whatever that hundred percent of you is in the world. There isn't going to be balance. I mean, there are some days where I'm feeling like, you know, I'm giving 20% to my marriage and my husband's giving the 80%. And then there are some days where it feels more 50 50 and then there are some, you know, you have to show up in alignment with what's important to you. And I guess that is. A more palatable definition of balance to me is what is my short list of values and what's important?

• 25:10Speaker 01

  And so that goes back to like the hell yes or the no thank you is that if a business opportunity is coming my way or philanthropic thing that's pulling at my heartstrings, like if it's really not moving the needle on the short list of things that's important to me and the top of that is certainly my family and my daughter, you know, protecting that time, the stuff that I am devoted to professionally has got to light me up and make me feel like a superhero.

• 25:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah. The balance thing is tough because I think it ends up shaming people because everybody's walking around measuring themselves against some idealized notion of how everything should fit on the daily. And I just don't believe anybody, particularly people who excel in their lives, are living up to that themselves. So I like to think of it as being completely present for whatever it is that you're doing and giving it your all and then toggling out of it and making sure that all of those buckets over an extended period of time are being filled, but understanding and being okay with them not being, you know, on an equal level of waterline on a daily basis or even a weekly

• 26:19Rich Roll?

  basis or even a monthly basis sometimes, depending upon how immersive a certain project or, you know, kind of thing that you're pushing forward involves.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. I don't think people understand energy to be currency. Like if we had currency meters, you know, of our energetic exchanges, you know, whether it's the person in your family that you're like, oh, gosh, so and so is really just like an energy vampire, think what is that expenditure costing you and what value are you putting on your own vibrancy and buoyancy? And how are you centering experiences that reward and really allow you to increase that energetic? Currency, that bank account.

• 27:04Rich Roll?

  Right. Like, there should be an app with a thing on your, like, that that measures that, right?

• 27:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:09Rich Roll?

  And then there's like graphs, you know, it's like, you devoted this much energy to your in-laws.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:15Rich Roll?

  You devoted this much energy to Netflix, you know, and then

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:18Rich Roll?

  And color code them based upon your values, like, so red would be bad, you know.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  I wish.

• 27:24Rich Roll?

  And then you could be like, wow, what am I doing with how I'm expending my energy?

• 27:27Speaker 01

  But we have that, right? When we listen to our intuition and when we listen to, like, we have that innately, but we're very distracted and we, sometimes we don't like the answer to that intuition.

• 27:38Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. You have to really be calibrated internally to have that level of self-awareness.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:48Rich Roll?

  Because I think we all just kind of do it and we don't, we don't concentrate enough on what that actually looks like.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:55Rich Roll?

  So, yeah, that's a cool idea.

• 28:05Rich Roll?

  Well, let's talk about being a mom. I mean, this is the big thing that's happened to you over the last year. Congratulations.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 28:12Rich Roll?

  Athena, I've yet to meet her. She is, Drew dropped you off, right? He's coming back? Is Athena with him?

• 28:17Speaker 01

  This is our first trip.

• 28:18Rich Roll?

  Or you're away? Wow.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  This is our first trip away together.

• 28:21Rich Roll?

  What are you doing in LA, by the way?

• 28:22Speaker 01

  I'm going to Coachella and had meetings.

• 28:24Rich Roll?

  Ah, okay.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I had some night, meetings in LA, business stuff, and then Coachella. Mom and dad are gonna be out in these streets.

• 28:30Rich Roll?

  First trip away.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:32Rich Roll?

  How are you doing?

• 28:33Speaker 01

  It's great. Um, I love being a mom. Athena is a cool human. Like, she's just exudes a level of cool that is really humbling. I mean, she's just a cool human. I love being her mom. It's all, it's felt very intuitive, to be honest.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  I want to say that it's been, um... I mean, honestly, it's been kind of easy. Like, I guess, I shouldn't say easy, simple, straightforward. Like, it's like, that's my kid, and that's my husband, and that's my family, and it feels good.

• 29:05Rich Roll?

  And how do you think about, like, have you developed an evolving philosophy of motherhood? And on that subject of balance or anti-balance, how do you think about continuing to pursue your dreams and your goals while also, you know, being the mother that you want to be and making all of that work?

• 29:24Speaker 01

  I am more ambitious now as a mom, I think. And I was pretty ambitious before Athena. This really, I mean, goes back to some of the things we already talked about. Like, I am unapologetic with my no. And I have boundaries that, like, I will not do meetings, executive meetings or otherwise, with my agents after 5 o'clock. Like, I won't. I put my phone, like, I don't have notifications on my phone. I don't, like, the thing I use as best I can, you know, the tools in my toolkit as tools, not as tethers. So, and I've gotten even more intentional about that stuff since becoming a mom.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  I also refuse to be a martyr to an antiquated idea of motherhood.

• 30:14Rich Roll?

  Explain that.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  That I need to be all things to all people, that I need to wear every hat all at once. I choose in any given moment what my primary identity is. And that's not always Athena's mom. It's not always Drew's wife. It's not always an executive at Peloton. It's not always an author, right? I'm, I'm gonna choose what piece of myself I'm utilizing and presenting to the world. And yeah, a lot of times, especially in the last year, it's been Athena's mom, and that's amazing. But I'm choosing when that is.

• 30:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah. How does it work, like, speaking strictly about fitness? Like, walk me through the prenatal phase and how you thought about your fitness, and now, postnatal, like, how you've approached it, whether it's different or has changed based upon pre-mama, pre-strong mama Robin.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Prenatal. Okay, so I trained and I taught five days a week live throughout my entire pregnancy.

• 31:15Rich Roll?

  And then everyone like fell in love with you because you were like, this is like, oh, she's pregnant. Like they, there was an emotional bond, I think, that you created with the people that care about you.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Well, I announced the pregnancy on the bike. So that, it was like a very major, you know, pregnancy announcement. But that was, that felt very logical to me because I have shared, you know, parts of my life, whether it's my romantic journey or my, you know, of course, as an athlete and as a woman, as a Latina, like there are aspects of myself that I, that I infuse into my training and my workouts. And so announcing the pregnancy felt logical, especially because I knew I was going to teach, you know, hoped to teach throughout my pregnancy and I had a great pregnancy, so that was possible. And I, you know, I continued to run, strength train,

• 32:04Speaker 01

  and cycle throughout. I did, I got my prenatal certification, so I did prenatal classes as well for Peloton. And that felt, I was like, oh, I got this. Postpartum, however, that piece of the journey was daunting. It felt like putting myself back together again. I wouldn't, I just wasn't used to slowing down to that extent and being that vulnerable and having no control. I mean, just, there were so many days that the fatigue was crushing. I, you know, I was recovering from a C-section, so major abdominal surgery. And there were, I mean, for probably the first six weeks, I was like, oh, my God, am I ever going to be moved the

• 32:48Speaker 01

  way I'm used to moving?

• 32:51Rich Roll?

  And the pressure of being this celebrity fitness personality. And what if I can't do that again? Or be that person that I want to be or know how to be?

• 33:01Speaker 01

  I had real moments of imposter syndrome, especially when, you know, we, we run like a network. So I took five months of maternity leave, but when we were planning for me to come back, you know, production's like, what do you want to teach? You know, we have to put something on the live schedule for X day. I'm like, I don't even physically know what I'm going to be able to do. You know, that felt really intense. And I developed a mantra then. During that postpartum period of consistency over intensity, because I knew I couldn't go hard in the paint, which is I'm apt to do. Like, that is much more my flavor of intensity. And I thought, just do something every day. And in the beginning, it was literally breathwork,

• 33:45Speaker 01

  like, literally feeding my daughter and doing 360 diaphragmatic breathing, because I knew that was, you know, going to repair my core. That was weeks of that. And then it was walks, and, you know, little by little amounting to a lot. But it was frustratingly slow. And now I'm stronger than I ever have been, you know, a year, a year later.

• 34:03Rich Roll?

  Right. And how much of that did you share transparently in the Peloton classes? Because I feel like that, on some level, is much more relatable to the typical Peloton person than all the talk about polishing your crowns and, you know, all of that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? Like, hey, I don't feel like, you know, most of the time, I feel like I can barely do anything. And now Robin can speak my language, or I can find a relatability there that perhaps even strengthened your connection with your community.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Definitely, I was super honest, especially in those first few classes. In that six-month period, my first six months back on the bike and back in strength classes, you know, I'd already been doing my own training before, you know, during my maternity leave. But it was, it's different. It's different doing in front of the camera. You know, those first few sprints, feel like, am I ever going to get it back? But your body does remember. And I think being honest about that journey, especially as a woman, in very anti-snapback culture, you know?

• 35:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I want to talk about that, because there is all this pressure, like, how quickly can you get back to where you were before? And your whole thing is about letting go of what was before, and let's focus on moving forward.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I really... My refrain was, what if a plateau is a launching pad? What if a plateau is a launching pad? And for a really long time, I still wasn't fitting into, you know, like I'm supposed to wear the new Peloton collection and I'd have to go back and be like, I actually still need this other size, you know? And I had to tell my, reframe the story around that and focus on what my body could do, rather than, you know, what size the tag set.

• 35:46Rich Roll?

  Sure. And it's all good now, though. Feel strong.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  I'm stronger than ever.

• 35:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  And I, but it was little by little amounting to a lot. I mean, it was truly like the smallest steps. I remember runs on the West Side Highway, just, I trained for the, I ran the New York City Marathon, um, about, I think Athena was nine months. And I didn't, when I tell you that I didn't look at a watch, I would old school, like, map the distance for my runs and not run with a single stitch of like pacing.

• 36:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Because I couldn't even, I couldn't even take that information. You know, I couldn't be like, oh, but your pace was this and that. No way. I showed up to the New York City Marathon, actually having zero idea how long it was going to take me. Like, I was just like, I'm gonna go.

• 36:31Rich Roll?

  But it's liberating that way.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  It was so liberating and it was, it was a refreshing back to basics. Like, it was like, I'm doing this because I love it and because I feel better doing it, rather than any external gaze.

• 36:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I shared a little thing about this on Instagram the other day. You know, my version of that is just getting older and dealing with injuries, you know, it's a limited version of what you experienced on an extreme level, but at some point, the GPS watches and all the stuff are no longer tools, but they're vehicles to shame yourself, right? And at that point, they're counterproductive. And I've been spending more time, like, letting go of all of that stuff. And what it does, is it does exactly what you said, which is it reminds you why you're doing it, which is that it brings yourself joy, you know? And that's really the most important thing. So rather than like, looking, you know, where am I at? It's impossible to look at that and not immediately measure yourself against the fittest version of yourself, which is a really unkind, unfair thing to do to yourself.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  I mean, I noticed myself doing that and I did do runs on the Peloton tread and it was, thank God I had it, because I, literally during nap time, I'd like, I cobble, I don't even know how I did cross that finish line, but I cobbled together like, I'm talking like 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the afternoon, and that would be my run, you know, when I was supposed to run five miles that day. Like, it was not, as I would have done it in past marathon training cycles. But the most important catalyst was not crossing that finish line, it was how I was talking to myself along the way.

• 38:04Rich Roll?

  Talk more about that.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  It was, um, okay, so pre-run, putting on a pair of pants that were bigger than I have ever trained in before, right? Go out, lace up, finish that 10-mile run, finish that 13-mile run, come back, kinder to myself, because I completed what I said I was gonna do, even if it took me however much longer than previous versions. And it actually brought me back. So I, when I started running, after, after I was held hostage, and I started, and was, started running during law school, it was the first time I was made aware of my internal conversation, of like, the actual thoughts, whether it was like in first person or third

• 38:48Speaker 01

  person, that were going on in between my ears. And I was brought back to that, in that training cycle postpartum, as my ability to either use the words to cast, what kind of spell am I gonna cast with the words that are going on internally? And it was either gonna be, I had a choice. Like, are you gonna berate yourself for the size of these pants? Or are you gonna tell yourself, oh my God, like, you are outside, your husband's able to watch the baby, she's healthy, like, you're healed enough from this post-C-section to even lace up, you know, you were craving to even get outdoors, you know? So there was an element of gratitude and kindness that I had to incorporate into that training

• 39:30Speaker 01

  cycle, and it ended up being the best four months of training of my life.

• 39:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's a choice, right? But sometimes it's hard to make that choice. Like, is there a mental trick or tactic that you would deploy to get out of that negative headspace and inhabit that more positive gratitude-oriented perspective?

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would often ask myself, what do you have right now that you used to dream about or pray for? And-

• 39:58Speaker 01

  In the like specifics, it was like just last week, you couldn't even go three miles.

• 40:05Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  So you would have been grateful that you couldn't even run an hour today, you know? And yeah, that that actually is my like internal, that asking myself that question is like an internal reset. Like, I remember the beginning of the pandemic during quarantine, I was pregnant during the pandemic and it felt, the walls felt like they were closing in some points, you know, for all of us. And I started that as a journaling practice, but I would force myself to answer, you know, what is it that you used to dream about or wish for that you have right now, but like within these four walls? And then I noticed like, oh, there's that painting that I got at whatever trip, or there's, you know, the couch that I bought with my husband, you know, little things that I was able to kind of put that gratitude filter on that it really helped. I mean, there were, of course, there were some days

• 40:50Speaker 01

  that I was like, God, this feels cheesy, but the practice of it really helped ground me and anchor me.

• 40:55Rich Roll?

  And was that journaling practice part of what birthed the children's book?

• 41:01Speaker 01

  No. So I, so I've been journaling for years and that is my, whether it's processing training, or whether it's listing gratitude stuff, or whether it's just a brain dump, journaling really helps, is like, keeps me like, definitely, it's like a processing thing, like an emotional processing thing. The children's book, Strong Mama, I was on my baby moon and I just finished a-

• 41:30Rich Roll?

  What does that mean, your baby-

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Baby moon. So it's like a little mini vacation that folks take, you know, during pregnancy.

• 41:37Rich Roll?

  Oh, okay. I've never heard that term.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, baby moon. So instead of a honeymoon, it's a baby moon. And so we were on our-

• 41:44Rich Roll?

  Before the baby comes, like-

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Before the baby comes, it's like a couples' weekend or whatever. And so that's exactly what it was. We went on a long weekend to Connecticut and rented a cabin. And the place where we were staying had like a hotel gym. And I had taken a bootcamp class with my girl Jess Sims on the Peloton app. And I had gotten back to the cabin and I was like hormonal, filled with endorphins, feeling-

• 42:10Speaker 01

  All kinds of feelings and that's when the book poured out of me and it was really like a love letter to the baby, which we called pequeño at the time, little one in Spanish. And that's how Strong Mama came to be.

• 42:22Rich Roll?

  And did you know it to be a children's book while you were kind of channeling this?

• 42:26Speaker 01

  I did, yeah.

• 42:27Rich Roll?

  You thought you were gonna write a children's book?

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Well, this had already been, so that we had had discussions with my agent of like, would you consider this? Would you write a children's book? And I was like, yeah, maybe. And then we went on the baby moon and I was like, whoa, actually, yeah, sure. Yeah, maybe turned into yes, because here it is. But we didn't have an illustrator at the time. I had no idea what, I mean, these were just the words. And that became, you know, the framework.

• 42:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And then it became a New York Times bestseller, right? It's like so crazy.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  It is crazy.

• 42:58Rich Roll?

  Two times, New York Times bestseller.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  I just submitted the manuscript for children's book number two.

• 43:04Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:05Rich Roll?

  What's that one called?

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Strong Baby.

• 43:07Rich Roll?

  Strong Baby.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Strong Baby.

• 43:09Rich Roll?

  Of course, it's called.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  So Strong Baby will come out in 2023.

• 43:13Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. That's so cool. Let's talk about the masterclass that you did. This is like so perfectly suited for you. Like just watching the trailer, it's, you're so relaxed and you're so in your Dharma doing this. Like it's such a natural fit and a great kind of like context for you to share all this wisdom that you share, you know, on the daily on the bike that kind of just spontaneously comes out of you and all of these pithy, you know, quotes that end up, you know, all over the internet.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  Well, it was cool to, um, you know, I'm a student of masterclass. I've taken a bunch of masterclasses.

• 43:51Rich Roll?

  They're dope. I mean, they're all so excellently rendered.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  They're super well done. They're very well curated. Um, the team is incredible to work with. Yeah. So when Masterclass approached me, I was like, it was no brainer, of course. And

• 44:06Rich Roll?

  How does it work? Like I've watched a bunch of them. They're all so well done and clearly they try to get, I'm sure they have different directors for these, but they get the protagonist like very relaxed and it feels very natural and spontaneous. Like how much of it is really scripted? I'm sure you put a ton of work into You know, figuring out what it is that you wanted to say and the order in which you wanted to say it.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  Well, when we filmed it, all of the work was already done. So it's a lot of interviews before you're even on set. It's interviews kind of developing the table of contents and figuring out like, if you were to create chapters of your body of work, what would that look like? So it was almost like creating a book proposal, right? And like creating sections within like a table of contents of a hefty book proposal. But because I knew it was going to be in a Q and A format, they're really just creating that framework in the initial conversations of like, oh, okay,

• 45:08Speaker 01

  this will be a chapter on your story and then this will be a chapter on how you have developed confidence and how you've developed, you know, mental resilience in like these different areas. And then when you're on set, it's just a conversation with the director. So they actually make it very fluid.

• 45:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's cool. I mean, it definitely comes across. Well, it's wonderful. What is the, what are some of the core concepts that are shared in the class?

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Well, it is a lot about my story. So there's a lot that lives in my book, Shut Up and Run, that is then in this kind of conversation that, that a masterclass student gets to witness. And it's everything from my journaling practice. So basically it's, I reveal my superhero toolkit. And in that toolkit, of course, is movement, journaling, visualization practice, vision boarding, everything from, you know, kind of identifying your superheroes and with specificity, as well as owning your no to protect your yes, you know, using your words as a wand to cast a magic spell, you know?

• 46:17Speaker 01

  The framework with which I applied not only my career transition, but you know, conquering marathons and ultra marathons. And it's like if you unzipped my head and tried to unpack mental resiliency, that's what I infused into my masterclass.

• 46:33Rich Roll?

  What is the thing that's challenging you the most right now or really putting those tools to the test?

• 46:39Speaker 01

  For me personally?

• 46:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  My Web 3 strategy? Like right now-

• 46:50Rich Roll?

  Hold on a second. First of all, I'm just like, wait, you have a Web 3 strategy? Like, I'm immediately like, should I have a Web 3 strategy? What is a Web 3 strategy?

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Exactly. That is my question. No, I mean, I guess, right now, I'm in a season of, um, asking myself, like, do I have the same values as pre-Athena? Like, what is on your short list of important business opportunities? Like, who or what is on your wish list of what you want to work on next? Like, I am now, I have realized a number of the things that were dreams of mine. And now I'm in a different stage of my career, a different stage of like, a lot of the seeds that I planted have germinated. You know, so now it's like, I'm having those introspective conversations. You know, I feel like for the last few years, it was just get the work done.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  And now I'm in a place where I'm in a more creative place again. And that actually is harder for me than just like hustling and getting the work done.

• 47:50Rich Roll?

  Because you've arrived at this place that you aspire to and have it.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:54Rich Roll?

  So what does that mean in terms of what's next?

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Exactly. And I don't do as well having achieved the thing. I'd rather be in the process to achieving the thing.

• 48:03Rich Roll?

  Sure, yeah.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  So-

• 48:05Rich Roll?

  And does there have to be a next thing?

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Great question. I want to say that there doesn't have to be a next thing, but I'd be completely full of shit.

• 48:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you're too ambitious for that. I mean, one of the things that I've found is, you know, I'm further along, I'm older than you. My kids are older. People ask me, like, what's the big vision? Like, what are you working towards? And sometimes I feel guilty because I don't have a good answer for that. But the truth is, like, I'm good. Like, I have ambitions and I have projects that I want to see realized and things that I'm working on. But I'm actually really happy doing what I'm doing right now. Like, I feel very fulfilled. And in a healthy way, I don't need my life to be any different than it is right now. And sometimes I judge myself.

• 48:57Rich Roll?

  For that because I too am an ambitious competitive person. But I think there's something healthy about that. Like, I'm not doing this to get to somewhere else. I'm doing this, much like leaving the GPS watch at home. Like, I'm doing this for the joy of doing it. And ultimately, if this is all that it is, like, it's pretty fucking great.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:16Rich Roll?

  You know, and I'm really, I worked really hard to get here. I'm very grateful to have this platform and the opportunity to talk to people like you. And, and it's okay if it's never anything bigger or more grand than what it is right now, because it's pretty fucking awesome as it is.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  I can relate to that, you know, as it, I feel that way about Peloton. You know, when I'm on that bike, I'm like, I don't need this to be different. Like, I love this piece of what I, how I serve the world. But then I also think, what are other ways that I can be expanding into who I am? And whether that's licensing and product iterations, whether that's different platforms that I'm going to partner with, different brands, different investments. You know, now, you know, Web 3 is an example of like, just my brain melting into different ideas. So it's both exciting and also terrifying.

• 50:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, because the thing is, those opportunities are there, and you could immerse yourself or run down a bunch of different alleyways towards those things. But ultimately, they end up draining your energy, right? So it has to be worth it, because otherwise, it is taking time away from those other values that you cherish. And what do you want your life to look like on a daily basis? Like, how manageable? Or how much agency do you want to have over your time? And if you get involved with too many things, they might all be individually very cool and reward you financially, et cetera. But ultimately, if you're just spread so thin in the pursuit of those things, you're losing sight of the most important thing, which is the quality time with the people that you care about

• 50:55Rich Roll?

  and making sure that you have the energy for the things that are most important to you.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think, you know, The analysis, you know, it is like paralysis by analysis. Sometimes that it's, I'm like, what is the risk? What's the reward? But if it's a totally new venture and I have no, you know, the newness is what's exciting, but then the newness is also where I get completely paralyzed because I don't actually know whether that venture is worth it, both financially, energetically, or otherwise.

• 51:24Rich Roll?

  Right. So the web three thing, I mean, what does that mean? Like NFTs of Robin? Like, I don't even understand.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  Well, it's what, um, you know, we're still, I'm still developing the strategy around it. But I, you know, it's, I'm a digital creator. And it's how will I create digitally in web three? You know, it's, I want to stay away from anything that feels gimmicky, where it's just like a piece of art that I want, that I sell on OpenSea, just to say I did that. I really want to create community and, and think about what is an inspired engagement with web three? I also feel really strongly about having a female presence in web three. It's very male dominated, especially it's pretty much white male dominated.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  And as I'm educating myself, I'm thinking, how can I create, build bridges so folks that follow me, especially women and people of color, can also feel like they're being educated.

• 52:25Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  So, you know, it goes back to that toolkit. I'm developing my own toolkit. I'm educating myself around basic terminology, like what is crypto? What is a non-fungible token, you know? And along that process, I'm really, you know, trying to consider who are the right partners in this space? And how am I going to build community in this new land grab?

• 52:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's fascinating. I feel like now I should be thinking more about this. Like, what are your sources of information on this? Like, who are you going to to learn about this?

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Well, Drew is very, pretty well versed. He has been involved in crypto and Bitcoin for a few years. And so he's, it's actually really neat because for the first time, we're, we're working together in ways that it now feel faded, but like, didn't feel. Didn't feel timely before and now it's the time.

• 53:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Let's talk about life pivots. We're both recovering corporate lawyers. I think you have a greater fondness for your legal career than perhaps I did. But people look at you as this inspiration for changing your life and constantly iterating on your path. And I'm sure people come to you all the time and say, I'm unhappy in my chosen career, or I'm looking for a change. Like, how did you do it?

• 53:40Speaker 01

  I really did a three-part, I only now understand this as a three-part audit, but I did a three-part audit when I was a lawyer. So I realized that I was falling in love, I had fallen in love with running and movement. And it was a two-year journey from that ideation phase to the departure phase. And I did, in those two years, I did a three-part audit. I would say, one was a physical audit of like, how am I feeling in my physical body? Like, energy is currency. Like, how can I capitalize on the energy that I'm feeling? And what are the avenues and the tools that I am feeling more filled with energy? Then the second was a more existential question of like, and I had a lot of this,

• 54:23Speaker 01

  especially in my twenties, after the hostage situation of like, what am I doing? Why am I here? Why did I survive? Who am I? And then the third was a very brass tacks, like, financial audit of how the hell am I going to pay my rent in New York City? And how can I continue to, how can I not move in, you know, with my parents and still be, you know, financially stable? And what skillset am I going to leverage in order to make sure that I'm still employable, you know, when I'm not doing what my degree says I should be doing?

• 54:55Rich Roll?

  On the second prong of that audit, the whole, like, who am I?

• 54:59Speaker 01

  Existential, yeah.

• 54:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like, how do you begin to unpack and answer that?

• 55:02Speaker 01

  That's where journaling really came into the picture. And journaling, vision boards, and honestly, social media. Like, the storytelling and the scrapbook nature that I approached social media with, even during like Tumblr days and, gosh, I don't even know what other platforms.

• 55:20Rich Roll?

  MySpace.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  I did have a MySpace. I had a Friendster.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was, um.

• 55:27Rich Roll?

  But I think it's important to point that out because people have, you know, through the rearview mirror, people have a very condensed idea of what the timeline looked like, right? Like, you were well along this journey when I met you, and that was like, was that like, I don't know, eight years ago or something like that?

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:42Rich Roll?

  Nine years ago?

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, eight or nine.

• 55:44Rich Roll?

  And you had already been at it for quite a number of years.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  For a few years.

• 55:47Rich Roll?

  And this is something I'm always reminding people about my own story. Like, this, these things don't happen. I mean, overnight is an absurd notion. It's, you know, decades for me.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:57Rich Roll?

  Of constantly growing and trying to figure this out and doing it imperfectly and incorrectly and inelegantly. And your initial move out of the law was really as a journalist.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Yes. I, I thought I was gonna, well, because I think it's human nature to go to the frameworks that are already existing. And I thought, okay, if I know how to write and I love sports.

• 56:20Rich Roll?

  Sure.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Then obviously, I'm just gonna go write for a sports magazine.

• 56:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's your strength. As a, as a lawyer, you know how to write. You have this love for running. It's not immediately apparent how that's gonna translate into anything that's gonna pay your rent.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:32Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:34Rich Roll?

  You're not gonna win the New York Marathon, and even if you did, that would probably barely pay your rent.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Exactly. There is no longevity in that. Like, how, how does this whole thing scale? And what was, that was the question of asking myself, how does this scale? I put on my vision board disruptive technology. And then I read about Peloton, a blurb about Peloton and Fast Company. And it was not even like a 200-word blurb. It was like on the sidebar. And I thought, oh. And that for me was the, well, how the vision board, vision boards help is that they enable you to. Name it and claim it.

• 57:21Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  And I think I would have glossed right by that blurb if I hadn't planted the seed that I wanted some type of disruptive technology, you know, to partner with.

• 57:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's interesting. And so, did you just cold call? Like, how did that relationship develop?

• 57:36Speaker 01

  I sent an email to like info@.

• 57:39Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  And I had been teaching cycling at a local spin studio in New York City. And then I read about Peloton and I, and I just looked it up on the internet and I info@, there were like 20 employees at the time. And I was like, let's do this. Like, I am your chick. And they said yes.

• 57:55Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 58:03Rich Roll?

  So when people come to you and say, I'm looking at, you know, trying to make some version of your life pivot, journaling, what else do you tell them?

• 58:14Speaker 01

  I think the three most relevant questions that I asked myself during that transition, period, and still continue to ask myself, why not me? You know, like, we tend to other people's greatness instead of understanding that in the kaleidoscope of how we see things, what if that greatness is being refracted as potential? Like, now I see somebody else's greatness as a potential of my own, not in a apple to apples comparison, of course, necessarily, but as potential. So I ask folks, ask yourself, why not me?

• 58:53Speaker 01

  And the second question that I've asked myself, which we talked about a little, was like, what is my why? I do believe identifying that with as much specificity as possible and acknowledging that sometimes that's going to change in different seasons is freeing. I give myself permission to change my mind as a stubborn individual, as a stubborn Virgo former lawyer, that is incredibly freeing to give myself permission to change my mind. And the third most exciting question is, what decision would I make if I were twice as confident and twice as strong?

• 59:30Rich Roll?

  And that's a good one.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  That one I ask myself a lot, especially postpartum. It was like, what decision would I make if I were twice as confident? And that actually is a nice tool against imposter syndrome, too.

• 59:41Rich Roll?

  It's kind of an alter ego exercise.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Yes, and I love.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  I love like the lore around superheroes and stuff like that. And I think it's, and actually this is related to Web 3 is like what that's, that level of enchantment, I think is really exciting of like, you know, I do talk a lot about royalty and polishing crowns. And I think, you know, there's a level of like self determination and imbuing respect when you call someone a king or a queen or non-binary royalty. And there is like an other version of myself that I try to honor, whether you call it an avatar, you know, alter ego.

• 1:00:23Rich Roll?

  And what is, when you conjure that, what does that look like in your mind?

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Like she is regal. She has earned jewels in her crown through grit. And yeah, I mean, it's like a version of myself that is otherworldly, but like she's on a throne, honey, and don't play with her. And I really think about that version of myself or that imagined version of myself often. And I'm creating a kingdom with my husband. And Athena is gonna be a part of that. But I also want her to like-

• 1:01:01Rich Roll?

  Appropriately named, you know, in the goddess vernacular.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I also want her to be able to earn and define her own way. You know, so that's an interesting thing that I'll navigate as she gets older. But yeah.

• 1:01:16Rich Roll?

  Another big piece of that, that you talk about is being unapologetic. But that is befitting of a queen, right? Or of royalty?

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I've learned to use my voice even when it's shaky. Like use it and you'll find your people. And you know, that paired with having enough confidence to know when you should have done better, you know? I think using your voice, even when it shakes, and having an ability to admit when you're wrong and change your mind are lethal combinations.

• 1:01:57Rich Roll?

  And then not fearing other people's success, which we talked about earlier.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  I find it totally intoxicating and palpable when somebody is like, step into your power, like polish your crown, baby. Like, that just means that I am surrounded by royalty. That excites me.

• 1:02:17Rich Roll?

  Let's talk about the T1. That's another big piece in your story, being type 1 diabetic. You're healthy, everything's good, right?

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank goodness.

• 1:02:27Rich Roll?

  With your health and stuff, as regards to that. I've been playing around with a CGM.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 1:02:35Rich Roll?

  Through levels, and it's been really interesting. And I've thought of you often as I'm like checking my blood glucose, because I know we go to dinner and you're kind of like, why is she so distracted? And it's like, no, as you're doing right now.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  I'm doing right now, yeah.

• 1:02:50Rich Roll?

  I like how it's on the apple wash. But it's been really interesting to see that relationship between the foods that I'm eating and how it's impacting that graph of blood glucose going up, going down, when is it plateau, what really spikes it, what doesn't, how does sleep, rest, recovery, training, all these other lifestyle habits impact that, which that's probably been the most revelatory. It's like, obviously, if you eat something that's, you know, high in simple carbohydrates, it's going to do this. I've also noticed that foods that are higher in fat will do the same thing, like all these. And I think the danger with this is that people who aren't steeped in the science can make very binary, reductive conclusions from that data.

• 1:03:32Rich Roll?

  I think the truth is probably much more complex. But as somebody who's, you know, been dealing with this condition that you have for a very long time and is very schooled on, you know, how these CGMs work and all of that, like, what have you learned about yourself? And how do you think like this kind of technology could be helpful for somebody who doesn't suffer from type 1?

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  That's interesting. I mean, yeah, body awareness is key. I'm very grateful that I was already plant-based and I was already an athlete when I was diagnosed. So there's a level of self-awareness that I already had going into my type one diagnosis. And then I just told myself, I'm going to continue to cross these finish lines. I'm going to continue to lift weights. I'm going to continue to teach a Peloton. Like, actually, I was just on the eve of teaching a Peloton when I was diagnosed.

• 1:04:19Rich Roll?

  And this, it's, the time is different now because now there's an acceptance of this. But when you were starting, I know that people thought that that was inadvisable or perhaps even very dangerous.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Oh, I was told you're not going to run ultras anymore. Like, you're, how are you going to be able to teach in front of a camera and not having to go? Like, the doctors couldn't even contemplate me teaching in front of millions of people and not having to, like, pause the class to leave and do whatever. Which, knock on wood, has never happened. Yeah, I mean, the technology helps a lot. So I have a Dexcom G6 and I loop that. Basically, you're, you create like a, a bridge through an app and through this Bluetooth device that links the blood sugar device with an insulin distribution system.

• 1:05:11Rich Roll?

  Right, and you can just refresh it every couple of minutes or whatever. And you can kind of see pretty much in real time what's happening.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  You're seeing the numbers in real time, but I'm also administering, like, the device, the algorithm is administering the insulin based on the settings that I give it.

• 1:05:28Rich Roll?

  Right, so it's reading it and deciding how much if and when the insulin gets right from the device on your arm.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that helps hugely. And I approach my care like a, like, I was like, I can either resist and get frustrated or I can get curious. And I just got really freaking curious about everything. From like, if I work out at this time and I eat this portion of my smoothie before this type of workout and I, now I kind of. I know how to like move the needle, you know, those, all those little nuances matter so much.

• 1:06:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and, and they're going to be very specific to you as an individual and also very differentiated because you have type one. What's interesting now is that there's adoption of, you know, a version of this device, obviously it's not injecting you with insulin, but with mainstream people. And I think there's a portion of society that is frowning upon this, like this thing is intended for people with diabetes, right? Like this shouldn't be being used by mainstream people. And then the counterpoint being like, hey, all information is good. This is going to help us make better decisions. We're going to get these massive data sets. We're going to better understand how foods and lifestyle habits are impacting blood glucose, which is really important in helping people prevent themselves from getting type

• 1:06:48Rich Roll?

  two or other lifestyle illnesses.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  For sure. It's a massive biomarker. I mean, I don't, unless the, the former criticism is presuming that having that type of technology widely available somehow inhibits or prevents type ones from having access to it, I don't see the issue. It's like.

• 1:07:12Rich Roll?

  Right, unless there's a supply chain problem. I think part of the criticism also is, is what I referenced earlier, that people who don't really understand will make really reductive conclusions about, you know, sort of, you know, A plus B equals C when that's probably not really the case. And then sort of saying, well, this is the case, so here's how I need to eat, or here's what this is happening because of this, where, you know, it's probably a much more complex, you know, physiological mechanism than what is revealed by a simple graph.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Sure, but you could say that about anything. You could say that about the sleep trackers, you could say, I mean, literally any of this biometric data. You could be making reductive decisions that aren't nuanced. But I think that we can use this data. I would love for people to be more intentional about their food choices and see how their bodies are reacting. Most people don't understand that you shouldn't feel like you were hit by a truck and you're so lethargic and fatigued every day at 3 o'clock after you've had lunch, you know? And it's like, if that data point helps people understand that, then great.

• 1:08:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and being able to see like, oh, man, like, I feel that way because here's this and like, oh, it's taking me a long time to get back up here. The other day I ate this and I bounced back more quickly. Like, all of these are really helpful, I think. I think it's potentially transformative technology when it's sort of adopted at scale, which I think will happen at some point.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  Definitely, and I mean, listen, diabetes, especially type 2, is an epidemic. We can prevent folks from reaching that point of crisis.

• 1:08:47Rich Roll?

  50% of Americans are going to be diabetic or prediabetic by like 2050. It's insane.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  It's pretty terrifying.

• 1:08:53Rich Roll?

  So we need to do something and we can start with that education tool.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:08:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah. What else do we want to talk about? Let's talk about a day in the life. What's the day in the life look like for you now? It's a little bit different than last time. A little more complicated.

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wake up.

• 1:09:11Rich Roll?

  I got four, so, you know, but they're older now, it's easy.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  Four, it's incredible. Day in the life, so I wake up, I used to wake up and meditate, now I wake up and feed Athena.

• 1:09:25Rich Roll?

  You gotta wake up in the night, too, right?

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  I used to. So now she sleeps through the night and I don't need to pump during the night, but I'll wake up.

• 1:09:34Rich Roll?

  She sleeps through the night?

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  She sleeps through the night. Put her down at 6:30, she wakes up at 6:30.

• 1:09:39Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  It's pretty remarkable. I'm very grateful.

• 1:09:42Rich Roll?

  That is, that's like, you won the lottery with that.

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  I know I did, I know I won the lottery there. So wake up, feed Athena. Mornings in our house are really sacred, so it's like, we play music, we, it's family time for, you know, 90 minutes. And then my husband will take the baby, you know, feed her. She has a plant-based smoothie in the morning for breakfast. So do, actually, the whole family has the same plant-based smoothie.

• 1:10:09Rich Roll?

  And you're still on the plant-based diet?

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:12Rich Roll?

  It's working for you.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 1:10:14Rich Roll?

  Good.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  Like, most of my family members are now plant-based. So it's cool to see.

• 1:10:21Rich Roll?

  That's good.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  It spread a little bit.

• 1:10:23Rich Roll?

  Did people tell you that you should modify that when you were pregnant? And how was the experience of being plant-based through pregnancy? Because I think that's something a lot of plant-curious or even plant-based people think about women when they get pregnant, like, hey, maybe I need more iron or I need more of this. And obviously, everybody, nobody wants to do anything that would be harmful to their

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. Well, I think because I was already a plant-based athlete, it answered a lot of those questions. So I already had blood work to understand, like, what are my vitamin D, B12, and iron levels? So, and I do supplement all three. And, you know, the protein question, it is like the classic plant-based protein question. I already had an understanding of what, how much protein I was getting to sustain, you know, very, very, two, three hours of training a day, most days. And so going into pregnancy, I kind of knew what my baseline was and that it was actually well above and beyond what they recommend for a pregnant human, let alone a pregnant plant-based athlete. So, yeah, I felt really confident. And to add to it, the fact that it was a type 1 pregnancy and you want to keep your

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  blood sugar within non-diabetic ranges, I wasn't going to upset the apple cart too much. It was like, if I know if I can eat this, this, and that, and this is what works before and after training and different parts of my day, you know, the nuances that we just discussed, as someone living with type 1, I was just going to keep rocking with that. And it worked well for me.

• 1:11:53Rich Roll?

  Good. All right. So, plant-based smoothie in the morning.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  Plant-based smoothie in the morning. And then I'll do my first training session. So usually in the morning, I have a lifting session, barbell work, everything from-

• 1:12:03Rich Roll?

  Just at home?

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  I'll go to a private training facility to do that. And then, three or four days a week, I'll do a run. So, 45 minutes to an hour of running. And then I'll normally teach mid-morning to afternoon a Peloton. So I'll teach a handful of classes four days a week.

• 1:12:26Rich Roll?

  And do you bank those in a row, or how does that work?

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  Usually. So, a few days a week, I teach live classes where it'll be like a 30-minute and a 20-minute, or a 45. You know, usually it's an under an hour of content live. And then sometimes I'm teaching up to two hours of content banked. So it might be like-

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  A bunch of, might be as many as five classes, but like about two hours of content total.

• 1:12:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  So then it's meetings. It's either meetings with my agent, with Drew on some of the projects that, you know, that we're working on. Afternoons are usually like meetings or any kind of written or like mind solitary like computer work that I have to do and.

• 1:13:10Rich Roll?

  Do you have an assistant?

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:13:12Rich Roll?

  You do.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  My gosh, yeah. I would not function without my assistant, Corinne, for sure.

• 1:13:19Rich Roll?

  And then early to bed.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  Early to bed, yeah. Then it's like make dinner, wrap up the day, hop on. After we put Athena to bed, it's usually back on the computer for a little bit for like more emails and stuff. And then I go to bed pretty early. Yeah. By eight, nine o'clock, it's a wrap.

• 1:13:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah. That's pretty manageable.

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  Yes, it really is. I've created a life that aligns with how I want to present in the world and I'm grateful as hell that I get to honestly see my daughter as much as I, as I do. Like I remember my mom who's a practicing physician still. So there was some day she would leave at seven in the morning and get back at seven at night. And at least now, even though, you know, I'm busy and my daughter is with our nanny who we love and I'm very grateful for, I can dip in and out and at least see her for 15, 20 minutes throughout the day and still feel like I'm honoring, you know, my work life and being productive.

• 1:14:15Rich Roll?

  And how does it work with social media? I mean, you have almost like a million people that are following you on Instagram. Do you feel pressure to be posting and sharing insights? Or how, how do you kind of calibrate how you interact with that to maintain some level of privacy and groundedness? Because that's a lot of people, right? I suspect there's some probably, you probably feel some pressure to be servicing that.

• 1:14:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, the storytelling around that is very organic. So, you know, we kind of have, I've developed a social media strategy and I kind of know what's going to live in different verticals of that. So like, there's like the Peloton stuff, there's motivation, there's the mom stuff, you know? And then there's stuff like this week where I'm just posting organically, you know, when I, when I feel like it.

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  I had to decide a long time ago to take the pressure off of that. You know, so it's.

• 1:15:07Rich Roll?

  You don't have like rules, like every day I do this.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 1:15:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 1:15:11Rich Roll?

  That's the only way that I can stay sane with the whole thing. Like, my rule is like, I only post when I feel like it. And I just don't, if I don't feel like it, like, you just can't be held hostage by it. Like, it's just not healthy.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  I agree. Do you have notifications on your phone from all these things?

• 1:15:26Rich Roll?

  No, no, no, no. I don't have any notifications for anything.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  Me neither.

• 1:15:31Rich Roll?

  So then, like, in the household, though, like, one of my kids is texting me and I don't get, you know, it's like, if I'm not checking my phone, they're like, I texted you. And I was like, sorry.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  Well, this perception that, of immediacy of in response to anything. I mean, I remember, you know, when you practiced law, people probably still sent written letters.

• 1:15:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  So there was like, at least.

• 1:15:53Rich Roll?

  Which was an art form, especially like the demand letter. Like, how snarky can I be in this letter? You know, you pour over it for hours.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, and I, I'm prey to, just like anybody else, you know, the distractions and the, this perception that time is, that we need to be as immediate with our response as it was in the sender's perception. And I just don't, I really try to release myself from those expectations.

• 1:16:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, that's healthy. And go to Coachella without your baby.

• 1:16:27Rich Roll?

  What else do I want to talk to you about? I mean, I think it's really cool what you've built and what you stand for and what you've done and to like, own your strength, I think is really, not just powerful, but like infectious. And I think part of your appeal, if I had to guess, is that everyone wants to feel a little bit more empowered. Like, they see you talking about crowns and like owning your space and all of that. And I think to some degree, we all self-flagellate and we all have insecurities. And to see you like, as this ballast going, no, do this instead. Like, I need a little bit more of that in my life. Like, I want that. Like, so for people that are feeling that urge or that pull or that yearning for a

• 1:17:11Rich Roll?

  little bit more self-efficacy and agency in their life, like, maybe it would be helpful to just kind of share spontaneously a little bit of that wisdom.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  Sure. I mean, I do think a lot of your listeners have some type of movement practice. I think that.

• 1:17:31Speaker 01

  Movement has changed my life. I didn't know, I wasn't an athlete as a kid. I was completely terrified of gym class. I told myself, I was like, I used to get made fun of for the way I ran when I was, you know, in recess or whatever. So I told myself this story at a really young age that I was the straight A student, arts and crafts kid, and that's who I was. And I am introverted by nature, so those, you know, being good at school and doing arts and crafts really suited my nature. And movement has unlocked a wellspring of confidence. And I do believe that confidence is a side effect of hustle.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  I think that you have to really drill down on what form of hustle feels rewarding and is getting you closer to the finish line of your own definition. And a regular movement practice is crucial, no matter what that looks like. For me, another tool in the toolkit is storytelling. Like, I think when we have a, when we're brave enough to tell our stories, it frees up, like, it frees up our ability to imagine our, the answers to those questions, right? It's like, what is my why? What decision would I make if I were twice as confident?

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  You know, those existential who am I moments? Why not me? You know, those things are always kind of percolating in my head. But it's really crucial to me that folks give themselves permission to win. Where sometimes success feels as uncomfortable as the work that it took to get there. And I want folks to give themselves permission to, like, step into the light. Like, I want to see, stand closer to the folks who illuminate you. And even pay attention to Who and what that is, like who, most people would have to think long and hard of, about the experiences that even bring them the most joy, or the people that they're with

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  when they experience joy, or what joy even feels like recently. We should be centering those conversations more.

• 1:19:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think that's powerful. That goes to the, that second tier that we were talking about, the who am I thing. And I think it is true that most people are so sufficiently disconnected that they aren't aware of what brings them joy, or what is driving their decisions, or, you know, the activities that would gird their life with more purpose and fulfillment and meaning and the like. And I think a process of starting to better understand yourself and what makes you tick is, yes, in the journaling, but also, as you mentioned, having the courage to share your story. We all have our, we all have a story, right? And that courage is born out of a choice to be vulnerable, like the vulnerability is

• 1:20:27Rich Roll?

  strength, because it takes bravery and courage to share something and allow yourself to be vulnerable and judged for that. But my experience and the experience of many others that I've borne witness to, and yourself as well, is that when you can summon that and engage with that, like grapple with that, there is a level of self-efficacy and self-esteem that derives from that, that allows you to be more self-integrated and self-actualized, to stand in that power, to adorn that crown, and like, claim your truth and your path.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  Well, speaking your story, speaking your truth is going to magnetize your people. Like, I think about, that's what I've done, you know, of course, it's on a very public platform, be it social media or Peloton, but speaking my truth has magnetized people who that truth resonates with.

• 1:21:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  And-

• 1:21:18Rich Roll?

  That's the lighthouse thing.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  That's the light, exactly. It's the lighthouse thing. It's like, how are your people going to find you if you're- Confused, misaligned, and obfuscating who you are. And then, you know, part of the, part of movement, and our movement practices are an ability to like, discover who that person even is. You know, something that I ask myself as a touch point, pretty frequently, are like, what are my recent moments of flow? Am I still finding moments of flow? Where I'm losing track of time, not because I'm scrolling on social media, but because I'm so immersed with focus and alignment, feelings of alignment, that, and fulfillment. Am I still, am I centering those experiences throughout my workday?

• 1:22:04Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  And I definitely go through periods where that, that isn't as much the case.

• 1:22:08Rich Roll?

  Takes more discipline to do that now than it ever has before.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  But, I would say, most people don't ask themselves that question of, am I experiencing moments of flow?

• 1:22:17Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's so easy and reflexive to just grab the phone. My eldest, my eldest stepson Tyler, just got the light phone, which is, you know, has nothing on it, except for like texting.

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:32Rich Roll?

  And he's like, in the first week, I read two books, you know, and he's like, I'm doing all these things that I had never done before. And he has his other iPhone, he just has it in a drawer, you know, and checks it once in a while, or whatever, but when he's out in the world, he's like, yeah, I was standing in a line the other day, and there was nothing for me to do, except be with myself. And it was like a revelation, you know? And, you know, I'm as guilty as anyone of that. To exercise, as a disciplined person, I find myself powerless at times to exercise the discipline required, to carve out the quiet time, to do the deep work, to accomplish the more important things.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  Just to even be bored.

• 1:23:09Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  I actually, on that note, I made a rule this year, to not grab my phone when I'm in, when I'm in elevators. And...

• 1:23:20Speaker 01

  Even when I'm like just on the cusp of sending an email, when I get into the elevator, to force myself to like even just be aware and have a human interaction.

• 1:23:28Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. Um. But then you're like, it's creepy.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  I force myself in that. I don't, and, and I am very allergic to like, I don't like small talk, but I find that it's like, just let your mind, when's the last time that I let my mind wander? Yeah, I'm always just grabbing, again, grabbing to my, grabbing to my phone, refreshing the email, like checking Instagram.

• 1:23:53Rich Roll?

  And the wandering mind is the bread and butter of any creative inspiration.

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:58Rich Roll?

  And if you deprive yourself of that, you're, you're, it's, it's a form of self-harm.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that's where I, um, you know, journaling also helps because there are some days where I don't feel like I have anything to journal, but I'll just set five minutes, a five-minute timer on my phone and something always pours out.

• 1:24:14Rich Roll?

  So what is the structure to the journaling? Is it like morning pages where it's just sort of a vomitous thing? Or do you approach it with a certain intention?

• 1:24:23Speaker 01

  Usually it's in the evening, actually, before I go to bed. Um, I find that my mornings are a little bit very, very, or a lot focused on Athena. Um, so it's evening focused and sometimes it's, there's an emotionality to it where it's just like, I'm frustrated about this or that, and it's more of like a dear, dear diary moment. Um, but the days where I don't feel like I have anything to write, I will literally just set a timer and dream, you know, whether it's like, what, I'll ask myself questions like, who, who is a dream partnership? Or like, what would success look like in Q1? You know, how are you defining that for yourself? So sometimes it's like business ideations and sometimes it's more personal. Um, and then it's that gratitude thing.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  I still, I ask myself that pretty frequently, like what do you have right now that you used to dream about or pray for? And, um, I also find that with a gratitude practice, there's a recency that helps, you know, like saying like, Three things that you're grateful for, like I'm always gonna say Athena, Drew, my family, you know, and then that kind of takes away from the special.

• 1:25:28Rich Roll?

  But being very specific and temporal.

• 1:25:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, temporal, like it'll be like in the last 12 hours, what's something that you're grateful for that occurred or, you know, that you witnessed in those last, in that, in that recent time period, and that helps too.

• 1:25:40Rich Roll?

  Hmm, and what goes into the morning smoothie?

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh, my husband is actually the Smoothie King, um, so I use AG1.

• 1:25:48Rich Roll?

  And he's jacked.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  He is jacked.

• 1:25:50Rich Roll?

  Is he plant-based too?

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  Plant-based.

• 1:25:52Rich Roll?

  He's completely ripped.

• 1:25:53Speaker 01

  He's a, he's a strong individual.

• 1:25:56Rich Roll?

  He's a very strong young man.

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  So, yeah, we use AG1, plant protein, we mix up what kind of protein we use all the time, um, magnesium, vitamin D, um, greens, like spinach, kale, whatever we have in the fridge, yeah, there's like 17 ingredients.

• 1:26:13Rich Roll?

  Right, and how has your marriage evolved from being, you know, just the two of you to being three, like what are the things that you've learned about being in partnership? And also now, like this web three thing, like you're kind of

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:25Rich Roll?

  co-mingled a little bit professionally in a way that you weren't previously, like what are the challenges that you faced and what are some of the lessons that you've learned about, um, what's required to stay together?

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  Wasn't until we had Athena that I understood,

• 1:26:41Speaker 01

  you know, that it was like, I have my life, Drew has his life, and then our marriage is like another life that we both pour into, whereas it all felt very like, yeah, okay, yeah, that's my husband, of course, I love him, like, we do our thing. Now it's the date nights and making sure that we have time for each other, um, which all just, it was like, all the time was time with each other before Athena, and now, you know, as life busies, it's, that has now risen to the top of the list of making sure that I'm prioritizing my time with him. And we've done a great job, you know, travel and adventure is part of who is in the DNA of our relationship. We, um, actually got engaged 72 hours after meeting each other and then got married

• 1:27:27Speaker 01

  a Burning Man three months later.

• 1:27:28Rich Roll?

  I don't know that I knew that.

• 1:27:29Speaker 01

  So we, you know, we believe we're like multiple lifetimes and we have a very cosmic

• 1:27:34Rich Roll?

  See, a Burning Man marriage, like, but then you got married, you got married in Tulum, right?

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we had a Burning Man ceremony, three months after meeting each other, and then we had, you know, a public ceremony in Tulum a few years later, um, but. Making sure that we're planning trips, whether it's this, you know, we're going to a friend's wedding in Ireland, we're going back to Burning Man, we, and of course, we have trips planned with Athena as well. And we're making sure that we're adventuring as a family, but also as a couple and individually. We've both with each taken trips alone since having Athena and, you know, we're kind of trying to find the right balance, intentional balance and alignment with our values of, you know, individual time and then as a family and then as a couple.

• 1:28:17Rich Roll?

  Anything unforeseen or a challenge that you didn't expect?

• 1:28:22Speaker 01

  Um, we communicate like, I'm very clear with, you know, what I need, whether, I think that-

• 1:28:30Rich Roll?

  That's important.

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  I think that helps a lot, right? I don't expect him to be a mind reader and likewise.

• 1:28:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah, because for a lot of partnerships, it's sort of like you have to do a little bit of mind reading or anticipation and the more clear that you can be, I think everybody benefits from that, even if it's an uncomfortable truth.

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty clear. I mean, I remember, you know, Drew was really, it was incredibly, an incredible partner, you know, when Athena was first home. I mean, he's an incredible partner always, but especially as it involved caring for a small human, our new roommate. And I would, you know, wake up at two in the morning or however many times at night to feed and we set up like a breastfeeding station with like snacks and whatever. And one time he ate the almond butter sandwich that I had waiting for, he had prepared, but he ate like half of it. And it's like a very clear boundary, like you cannot eat my snacks when I'm breastfeeding at two in the morning. So little things like that are actually big things. It's like he's, we're

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  setting each, trying to set each other up for success. So, you know, no, no one person needs to feel like a mind reader.

• 1:29:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, the complexity of the child really ups the exigency of that communication-

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:47Rich Roll?

  And the planning and all of that, because it's so easy to default to a routine. And before you know it, you're leading separate lives and you haven't really talked. Like, I see it all the time. And it really requires a level of like conscious awareness to say, hey, oh, we need to like stop, we need, here's, we gotta like get in sync here, because otherwise we're like, you know, extrapolate that little tiny diversion and suddenly we're, you know, in very different places in not too long.

• 1:30:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I'm trying to- Be aware of the marriage as an organism as well as, you know, Drew as a, you know, sentient being and myself, right? So it's, it's actually three entities or humans kind of that we're curating and we're nurturing, not just, and I mean, three as in the marriage and then the two of us individually. And then, of course, our family is an organism, but that's, that's the more obvious one.

• 1:30:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I like the idea of the separate trips thing. I mean, that's something that Julie and I have done as well. It's sort of like, you're your own human. I don't need you to complete me. We're awesome together, but I don't want to stand in the way of you having the experiences in your life that you want to have. Like, you have to have that green light for that type of thing. And obviously, it has to work within the construct of the family, but I found that to be, you know, going both ways in our, in our marriage to be really beneficial.

• 1:31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, you know, you have interesting things to talk about. Like, I want him to feel fulfilled and it's an opportunity to miss each other. I think that that's a very good thing.

• 1:31:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Is New York still your boyfriend?

• 1:31:22Speaker 01

  New York? New York is still my boyfriend.

• 1:31:24Rich Roll?

  You're cheating on your husband with New York?

• 1:31:26Speaker 01

  Well, thankfully, Drew also is, you know, in love with New York. So I would say New York is probably just an element of our marriage at this point.

• 1:31:33Rich Roll?

  It's a threesome.

• 1:31:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:31:35Rich Roll?

  That's the other piece that has to get attended to and the, you know, the other individual in the relationship, right?

• 1:31:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. No, New York is home base for sure. We bought a home in New York. Um, you know, we're going to be applying to schools in New York for Athena, whatever that looks like. That's a whole thing.

• 1:31:51Rich Roll?

  Is New York coming back? Like, New York's had a roller coaster ride, but I was back there last spring and I was like, is this off the hook? Like, I don't know what everyone's talking about.

• 1:32:01Speaker 01

  It's buzzing.

• 1:32:01Rich Roll?

  I mean, Midtown, maybe not so much, but.

• 1:32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. There's a lot of boarded up stuff or whatever.

• 1:32:06Rich Roll?

  But when the weather got nice, like, everyone was out and it seemed like there was a lot of energy.

• 1:32:12Speaker 01

  People are out and about. People are craving interactions and, you know, I don't, I don't go out like to nightclubs or anything really anymore, but that, like, my friends who do are like, it is back in a way that unprecedented numbers.

• 1:32:27Rich Roll?

  Of course it is, because New York City is undefeated.

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:30Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 1:32:30Speaker 01

  And resilient as hell. Like, we are always gonna find a way, find a way to maintain. The swagger.

• 1:32:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I miss it.

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  You're a plane ride away.

• 1:32:41Rich Roll?

  I know. I gotta come back this spring at some point. Well, let's round this out with maybe a final few thoughts for the person who is struggling to get off the couch, who's contemplating that movement practice, who's looking for a little bit of direction and maybe purpose in their life, like, get them off the couch.

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:33:02Rich Roll?

  Come on. This is what you do.

• 1:33:06Speaker 01

  Listen, you gotta start with one. If you don't like something, change it. I think that excuses are lies that we tell ourselves convincingly. And how many, how many episodes of the RRP are you gonna listen to before you get off your butt?

• 1:33:20Rich Roll?

  I mean, come on, right?

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  But it really starts with one. It can be really intimidating to look at the social media feed and think that everybody ran a marathon before 6:00 a.m. and they all are a five-minute mile. You know what I mean? Like, there is the other side to that aspirational, you know, the inspiration business is feeling like, ugh, that just made me feel paralyzed with what I'm capable of. So start with one. Literally, start with one. Like, lace up, do one block, do one Peloton workout, like, do one. And then, that's why I say that confidence is a side effect of hustle, because when you take those little nibbles of hustle, you

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  discover that you really have the power all along. And then that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And when you realize that you are a self-generated factory of power, yeah, your life changes. When you develop an appetite for your own power, mediocrity doesn't taste so good anymore.

• 1:34:27Rich Roll?

  Polish your crown.

• 1:34:29Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:34:30Rich Roll?

  Always a pleasure, Robin. Thank you so much.

• 1:34:32Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:34:33Rich Roll?

  You are an inspiration. I love you dearly. I think it's so cool what you're doing in the world.

• 1:34:39Speaker 01

  I love you too. Thanks for having me. This is so nice to see you, friend.

• 1:34:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know. We did it in LA.

• 1:34:44Speaker 01

  We did it.

• 1:34:44Rich Roll?

  We'll do it again in New York at some point, I'm sure.

• 1:34:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:47Rich Roll?

  You're always welcome here. It's been too long. So, thank you for sharing your wisdom. Everybody should check out Robin's Masterclass. Where did they find that? Is it masterclass.com?

• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  Masterclass, yeah, masterclass app.

• 1:34:59Rich Roll?

  The app, right, of course. And Strong Mama, the new book.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  Strong Mama is my children's book, and of course, you can find me at Peloton and robinadison.com.

• 1:35:09Rich Roll?

  There you go, all the stuff.

• 1:35:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:10Rich Roll?

  All right. All right. Love you, Robin. Thank you.

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  Love you too. Thanks for having me.

• 1:35:13Rich Roll?

  Plants.

• 1:35:17Rich Roll?

  Awesome. That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guests, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change, and The Plant Power Way, as well as The Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube,

• 1:36:00Rich Roll?

  and leave a review and/or comment. Supporting the sponsors who support the show is also important and appreciated. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is, of course, awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, The Meal Planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo, with additional audio engineering by Kale Curtis. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis, with assistance by our creative director, Dan Drake. Portraits by Davy Greenberg and Grayson Wilder.

• 1:36:44Rich Roll?

  Graphic and social media assets courtesy of Jessica Miranda, Daniel Solis, Dan Drake, and A.J. Akpodiate.

• 1:36:52Rich Roll?

  Thank you Georgia Whaley for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants. Namaste.