A Life of Music with Tommy James

Tommy James started making music when he was 4 years old and he hasn’t stopped. Tommy is a musician, singer, songwriter, record producer, and the frontman of rock band Tommy James and the Shondells. Known for timeless classics such as “Crimson and Clover”, “Crystal Blue Persuasion”, “Hanky Panky”, “Sweet Cherry Wine”, and “Draggin’ the Line” Tommy James has amassed 23 Gold singles, 9 Platinum albums, and over 100 million records sold worldwide. He was honored with a BMI Five Million-Air Award for over 21 million radio plays and his music has appeared in over 200 TV shows and films, and in countless commercials. To date, over 300 musicians have recorded covers of James' music, including: Billy Idol, Joan Jett, Prince, R. E. M., Kelly Clarkson, Bruce Springsteen, and even The Boston Pops. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star Trust Pilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  If you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger. Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust, from paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Grainger for easy reordering, so you never run out of what you need. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click Grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  I am Steph, and I work at United Healthcare. When I think about United Healthcare's members, I think of my own family. My niece was diagnosed with an ultra-rare genetic disorder. I know how hard it is for families at United Healthcare. We can make it easier.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  I'm Brian. I care because I know what it's like to not speak the language. It's not easy. Health insurance is complicated. I would say our job is to make everything easy for our UFC members. I work for United Healthcare. I'm committed to care.

• 1:35Alec Baldwin?

  This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing from iHeart Radio.

• 1:48Alec Baldwin?

  That is, of course, "Moni Moni," the 1968 single by my guest today, Tommy James, and his band, The Shondells.

• 2:06Alec Baldwin?

  Known for timeless classics like Crimson and Clover, Hanky Panky, and Crystal Blue Persuasion, Tommy James has amassed 23 gold singles, nine platinum albums, and over 100 million records sold worldwide. His music has also appeared in over 200 TV shows and films, as well as countless commercials. Legendary musicians such as Billy Idol, Joan Jett, and Prince have recorded famous covers of his music. Having started out during a more primitive time for music and technology, I was curious about the changes Tommy James has seen in both the way we consume music and record it.

• 2:50Speaker 05

  Well, first of all, I'm so fortunate and blessed to be able to see the music business in a historical perspective because I lived through so much of it. I mean, we would have killed for the technology we have today. It's quite remarkable. Of course, when I started out, there were essentially three television networks. There were a handful of 50,000-watt AM stations across the country. But you could cover the whole country and everybody was listening to the same records, which was incredible. So, everything was so different. My first record, for example, Hanky Panky, was recorded in a radio studio in my hometown of Niles, Michigan,

• 3:34Speaker 05

  on a mono tape recorder. You know, what you saw was what you got. So, what I'm saying is that mono was all you had back then. And then, finally, during the early 1960s, four-track came into the studios. Our horizons were a little bit higher. And then, when I came to New York, a four-track was the state of the art. 1966, right out of high school, by the way.

• 4:02Alec Baldwin?

  When you had that hit, when you had Hanky Panky, you were 19 years old.

• 4:05Speaker 05

  I was, and I also had recorded Hanky Panky, the same recording, when I was 16. Back in Niles, Michigan, my hometown, recorded it in W N I L radio studios. At any rate, it was the same record. And so I was, it exploded out of Pittsburgh. I came to New York and by 66, we're working with four track.

• 4:32Alec Baldwin?

  What was it like for you at that age? Because your path, your arc mimics other people we've had on the show. I mean, Paul Simon talked about him and Garfunkel, when Tom and Jerry, they were teenagers when that song, their first hit, was on the radio. Same with Frampton. Frampton talked about getting into a limousine with Ronnie Wood and they wanted him to come play with the Stones and he was like 15 years old or something.

• 4:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, all I ever wanted to be was a rock and roller. Honestly, I'm so fortunate that I made it in rock and roll, honestly. Because it's not like I knew how to do anything else.

• 5:06Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 5:07Speaker 05

  I started my first band when I was 12 years old in 1959. We played the variety show in high school and, or in junior high, seventh grade, and kept the band together and started playing out locally. My first money gig was the American Legion Hall in Niles, Michigan for, I think it was 31 bucks. That was big time, baby. It was better than mowing lawns, right? Then I, when I was 14 years old, I got a job in a little record shop in Niles. And that really changed my life because I learned the record business. I learned, it was almost like the good Lord had me going to college through the record shop. So then I made my first record when I was 14.

• 5:52Speaker 05

  The one-stop distributor that serviced us in the record shop had a recording studio.

• 5:59Speaker 05

  In Hastings, Michigan, and asked me if I would, if I had my band together, if I'd be interested in coming and recording in his studio. I said, "Hell, yes!" So, went up and recorded, my group was called The Tornadoes at that time, and we recorded a couple of sides. They came out, a record called Long Ponytail, which was a cover of the Fireballs record. And we did okay. We got in all the local jukeboxes and we played around and developed a following. Anyway, that's the group that later became The Shondells. Same personnel? Yes. Basically, then, when I was 16, a local DJ walked into the record shop and

• 6:44Speaker 05

  asked if I wanted to record for his label. He was starting a little label called Snap. And I said, "Yes," and that's where we recorded Hanky Panky. And so, the record, you know, we had no distribution, so the record kind of came and went. And I graduated from high school in 65, and took my band on the road, and we played clubs in the Midwest. Were your parents musical? My mother was. She was? Yes. So, in early 66, I'm playing this dumpy little club in Janesville, Wisconsin, and right in the middle of my two weeks, the guy goes belly up because the IRS shut him down for not paying his taxes. So, we were sent home, let go and sent home, and

• 7:29Speaker 05

  feeling like real losers. But as soon as I got home, I got the call that changed my life. It seems that in Pittsburgh, Hanky Panky, this record that I had made two and a half years earlier, somebody picked out of a record cemetery and they got played on the radio. And it exploded. In Pittsburgh, they bootlegged it in Pittsburgh and sold 80,000 copies in 10 days, and we were sitting at number one. Only in America. So they called me up, the distributor called me up and asked if I could come to Pittsburgh and do, they tracked me down to see if I would come and play some shows. I had to put a band together real quick.

• 8:14Speaker 05

  Basically went to Pittsburgh, got my first manager, picked up a new group. And indeed, the record was number one. Outside the city limits, I'm nobody. I go into Pittsburgh, I'm a rock star, you figure.

• 8:26Alec Baldwin?

  It worked that way back then.

• 8:27Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 8:28Alec Baldwin?

  You'd be the king of Pittsburgh, yeah.

• 8:30Speaker 05

  That's exactly right. And, you know, one station could make you.

• 8:34Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 8:35Speaker 05

  Because it was a major market. So I went to New York and all the record company, I made the rounds to all the companies and everybody wanted hanky panky. And quite literally, I was amazed. We went to CBS, we went to Epic, we went to Atlantic, RCA. I don't know if you remember Kamisutra Records back then.

• 8:56Alec Baldwin?

  I do, actually.

• 8:57Speaker 05

  Yeah. And the last place we took the record to was Roulette. So I went to bed that night thinking that we were going to be with one of the big corporate labels and probably CBS or Atlantic. And I was feeling great. So the next morning, about 10 o'clock, I started getting calls. We started getting calls from all the companies that had said yes the day before. And every one of them said, Tom, I'm sorry, we got to pass. I said, what do you mean you got to pass? I thought we had a deal. And finally Jerry Wexler up at Atlantic told me the truth that Morris Levy, the head of Roulette Records, had called up all the other labels and scared them to death. Basically told them.

• 9:41Alec Baldwin?

  They backed down out of, under duress.

• 9:43Speaker 05

  And that's how he thought. He said, this is my freaking record, back off.

• 9:49Alec Baldwin?

  So you have a kind of a whiff of that. Somebody steps in, they intervene.

• 9:52Speaker 05

  It was the first offer I couldn't refuse, you know what I mean? So at any rate, well, that's how Morris talked too. I mean, I guess they go to school to talk like that. They all go to the same, they all go to the same private school, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, right. So at any rate, Roulette literally took the record to number one. Now, the amazing thing, I went up that afternoon to meet Morris Levy and Roulette Records. And I mean, he was right out of the movies. I'm not kidding. Morris was a big guy. Physically shaking hands with him was like grabbing hold of a catcher's mitt.

• 10:29Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, I know the type.

• 10:31Speaker 05

  Things were hap- I remember signing my contract with Morse. And as I'm as I'm signing, that's where we got the title of the book. He happened to say, you know, I hope you're ready, kid, because you're about to go on one hell of a ride. And I said, yeah, I'm ready. Let's do it. So at any rate, the sitting in the office was George Goldner, one of his partners, who was a big producer, produced all the doo-wop stuff in the 50s, had End Records, Gone Records. Murray the K, the disc jockey, you remember him?

• 11:03Alec Baldwin?

  Of course.

• 11:04Speaker 05

  And Brett Schwartz, who was the head of promotion. And, you know, the movers and shakers up at Roulette. So they took the record, Hanky Panky, and took it to number one all over the world. And I, you know, I, we had this amazing success on Roulette that I'm sure we wouldn't have had anywhere else. Because at Roulette, they actually needed us. At Columbia or Atlantic, the competition would have been horrific. We would have been just one of many. And with a fluky record like Hanky Panky, we would have been lucky to have been a one-hit wonder. And at Roulette, they actually needed us. So we were given the keys to the candy store.

• 11:46Speaker 05

  I was allowed to put my own staff together, my own producers.

• 11:50Alec Baldwin?

  Production staff.

• 11:51Speaker 05

  Yes. And arranger Jimmy Wisner. We were able to learn our craft, number one, and to be, you know, in charge of our own career.

• 12:03Alec Baldwin?

  Now, let me ask you this, in terms of these songs of yours and your vocal tracks, are among the most famous songs, you know, in rock and roll history?

• 12:11Speaker 05

  Well, thank you, thank you.

• 12:12Alec Baldwin?

  No, no, no, you're an amazingly talented guy. The band was great. What was your origin as a singer? When did you know you could sing?

• 12:18Speaker 05

  I started singing, it seems like, right out of the cradle. As soon as I went to kindergarten, I was being chosen to do musical things by the teachers. And I was in choir also in, you know, 7th grade on up. And of course, I had the band.

• 12:35Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 12:36Speaker 05

  So I had all kinds of affirmations that I could sing. I didn't sing with any particular style or educated in singing or singing lessons or anything like that.

• 12:48Alec Baldwin?

  You didn't train?

• 12:49Speaker 05

  No, my whole thing was to accompany my singing with my guitar. I never became a lead guitar player either because I pre-tuned my guitar to an open E. And I, so I taught myself to play guitar, but in order to accompany my vocals, never to really be a guitar player. So the band was going all through junior high and high school. And it's something that just kind of came at me normally. I felt like my ego wasn't attached to it is what I'm trying to say. I was, it was just something I kind of naturally did.

• 13:25Alec Baldwin?

  Now, when did songwriting come into your life? The songs you would record?

• 13:29Speaker 05

  Right, I would have to say, once I got to New York. I became friendly with Richie Cordell and Bo Gentry, who became my producers. They were great songwriters. It seemed like the natural next step. I sat with them and we wrote rock and roll and ballads and all kinds of music together. And so gradually I became a songwriter.

• 13:52Alec Baldwin?

  Did you enjoy it?

• 13:54Speaker 05

  I loved it, oh yeah.

• 13:55Alec Baldwin?

  But apparently, songwriting and the pursuit of writing songs for you to record led to, shall we say, a slight health scare. What happened to you on stage?

• 14:04Speaker 05

  Oh, in Alabama.

• 14:06Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, what happened?

• 14:07Speaker 05

  Well, that's, this was some time later, this was in 69. I actually collapsed on stage.

• 14:12Alec Baldwin?

  Why?

• 14:13Speaker 05

  Because I'd been up for three days, because I had taken uppers.

• 14:16Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 14:17Speaker 05

  Amphetamines, pills.

• 14:18Alec Baldwin?

  To write songs.

• 14:19Speaker 05

  Yes, to write songs and be in the studio, and to perform. You know, they became, at one time, the all-purpose drug, you know.

• 14:29Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, oh, I know. Yeah, I mean, I've taken my vitamin C every now and then, yeah, I'm nervous.

• 14:35Speaker 05

  But back then, that's, I did my share of 60s crap, you know.

• 14:40Alec Baldwin?

  But you took songwriting to another level here, your dedication, correct?

• 14:42Speaker 05

  Well, I was able to stay up longer, let's put it that way.

• 14:47Alec Baldwin?

  In pursuit of that one missing lyric, that one word, that one rhyme.

• 14:50Speaker 05

  Well, that's true, and I, and I, but I, I really loved songwriting and I was very fortunate to have all these talented people around me. And then I brought it, my group was talented too. They all were writing and we, we all ended up writing with each other and for each other. And Bo and Richie were terribly talented and taught me New York and taught me the business. They were my first producers.

• 15:16Alec Baldwin?

  And the guys that are in the band, are they all still alive? Everybody in the original band?

• 15:20Speaker 05

  Uh, no, they're not. The drummer, Pete Lucia, has died some time ago.

• 15:24Alec Baldwin?

  Wow.

• 15:25Speaker 05

  But, uh, we all stay in touch.

• 15:27Alec Baldwin?

  No reunion tour?

• 15:29Speaker 05

  Well, no, I have a new group of Shandells.

• 15:31Alec Baldwin?

  You do?

• 15:32Speaker 05

  But, uh, it ended amicably in nineteen seventy and

• 15:36Alec Baldwin?

  Wow.

• 15:36Speaker 05

  I took on a new group. So they've been with me all this time, the new group.

• 15:40Alec Baldwin?

  And you tour?

• 15:41Speaker 05

  Yes. Oh yeah, every year. We're out all over, uh, North America and I don't like to go overseas.

• 15:49Alec Baldwin?

  Why?

• 15:49Speaker 05

  It's just a, just a fetish of mine. I did back in the eighties, but

• 15:54Alec Baldwin?

  You don't like touring overseas? You don't like going overseas, period?

• 15:57Speaker 05

  I don't like touring overseas.

• 15:58Alec Baldwin?

  You don't?

• 15:59Speaker 05

  Yeah. I just have more control here

• 16:02Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 16:02Speaker 05

  in the US and, and North America. So I also have the radio show that I'm doing, so I can't get too far.

• 16:09Alec Baldwin?

  You do, well now tell us about that. What are you doing?

• 16:10Speaker 05

  Well, I have a show on Sirius XM every Sunday. It's called Getting Together with Tommy James. It's three hours from five to eight PM.

• 16:20Alec Baldwin?

  I gotta listen to that. What are you, what are you playing?

• 16:22Speaker 05

  Well, you know, when they came to me to do this, I was frankly a little scared, a little worried, because as much as I've been on the radio, I never really was on that side of the microphone before. You know, it's filling up three hours every week.

• 16:40Alec Baldwin?

  I know, I know, yeah.

• 16:41Speaker 05

  And that's a lot of time. What I did was I just, uh, they wanted me to play whatever I wanted. Now, that's a scary thing. Tom, do whatever you want.

• 16:50Alec Baldwin?

  Musically.

• 16:51Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 16:52Alec Baldwin?

  How long have you been doing that now?

• 16:54Speaker 05

  This is the eighth year. And they but they said, play anything you want. We want you to play your own music. I said, can I go to jail for that? They said, no, we're satellite. They gotta catch us first. So at any rate, the bottom line was that I went on and the philosophy was kind of to play. There was so much music in the 60s that was so great that never got played, never made it to the radio because there was no room. There were over 3,000 records released in the continental United States every week in the 1960s. Five records made the national charts. And that's the kind of competition there was.

• 17:32Alec Baldwin?

  Now, to go back for a second in terms of the origin story, when you were a kid, and you grew up in Michigan, correct?

• 17:39Speaker 05

  Right.

• 17:39Alec Baldwin?

  When you're a kid, what are you listening to? What's what's is it all British Invasion at that point? What are you listening to?

• 17:44Speaker 05

  Well, so a lot of it, but the first generation rock and rollers were my heroes growing up in the 50s. You know, Buddy Holly, Elvis, of course, Jerry Lee Lewis, Gene Vincent, Eddie Cochran.

• 17:57Alec Baldwin?

  Roy Orbison.

• 17:58Speaker 05

  Orbison. He came along a little later, but but the 50s guys were were my heroes. And that's all I ever wanted to be. And then in 60s, of course, the British Invasion. And I was playing all that time. So I was I was performing all these songs and working at the record shop, selling records. So I got a hell of an education, well rounded, I would say. Going to Roulette seemed like the other half of my education, learning the record business. You know, I learned at retail at the store, but then learning the record production and all of the finer points of record manufacturing and how records are

• 18:39Speaker 05

  made and all that stuff, all happened at Roulette. So I was I'm still learning things today.

• 18:46Alec Baldwin?

  Now, speaking of the Beatles, you were approached by a Beatle, correct?

• 18:50Speaker 05

  Well, George Harrison was producing a group called Grapefruit back in 68 and was Moni Moni had gone number one in England. It was actually bigger there than it was here. It stayed number one over there for, oh, weeks and weeks. Wow. And George and his group Grapefruit started writing songs for me. I couldn't believe it. They all kind of had a Moni Moni flavor to them. Yeah. They were really great and I was so honored. He brought them over and personally delivered them to my management office. I was out on the road and I was blown away. I couldn't, I couldn't believe how honored I had been. But then what did you do?

• 19:35Speaker 05

  Well, the problem was by the time we got them, we were, we were just releasing Crimson and Clover and our whole style had changed. I had them and I never actually recorded them. And after he died, I was just so distraught that I hadn't, you know, recorded these songs. Yeah. I never really properly thanked him. I did through the channels, but I never called him up. I didn't really know how to do that. Right. But I was very, very honored. I said so on so many TV shows. I know he heard my thanks, but I just was so grateful that he did that. And later I had the opportunity to meet John. Wow.

• 20:19Speaker 05

  And John and I were both getting a BMI Award in 1971. He was getting it for Imagine. I was getting it for Draggin' the Line. And we sat back to back, you know, at the BMI dinners and he had Yoko with him. And we had a great conversation and, you know, patted each other on the back and said, thank you, what big fan I was of John's and how I listened to him. And so we got, we had a chance to really talk and it was a wonderful conversation. And then, then I met Paul and Ringo at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2015. I had,

• 21:00Speaker 05

  Joan Jett asked me if I would accompany her and come on and do Crimson and Clover with her. Right, she did the cover. She was being inducted and one of her big hits was Crimson and Clover. It so happened that Paul Was introducing Ringo, who was being inducted that night.

• 21:20Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 21:21Speaker 05

  And so I got a chance to meet Paul and Ringo that night. So I had good contact with the Fab Four. My manager, Carol Ross, who is now my wife. She was one of the biggest public relations directors in New York. And she represented Paul some time ago. So they were friends and there was going to be a big party at Joan Jett's dressing room after the show. And so Paul was gonna, had come over. We took some pictures together and, and he said, well, I had the, I had the limo there that night and we were just gonna go right from the hall to the, to the club. And he said, well, I'll just, I'll just go with you.

• 22:06Speaker 05

  And I said, that's great. That's wonderful. Had Paul McCartney riding in my car. I thought that was just great. And Carol comes over and says, oh, Paul, there's no room. I said, what?

• 22:21Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah. Honey, you walk.

• 22:24Speaker 05

  We can put you on the hood.

• 22:25Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, it's a luggage rack.

• 22:27Speaker 05

  And so Paul said, well, that's no problem. I'll just go behind. So he goes in an SUV, following the limo. I was so humiliated.

• 22:36Alec Baldwin?

  But you eventually married her.

• 22:38Speaker 05

  I did marry. I said, anybody with those kind of pellets, I'm getting involved.

• 22:44Alec Baldwin?

  Songwriter and producer, Tommy James. If you enjoy conversations with legendary singer songwriters, check out my episode with Paul Williams.

• 22:55Speaker 05

  Most pop songwriters, writing for a film or a stage play, wanna have a hit. Of course, we all wanna have a hit. But because I come from an acting background, I wanna advance the story and I wanna expose something of the inner life of the character I'm writing for. That was the whole point with Kermit is, is that he has a spiritual life, you know? I was never a kid that was in a gang that had a treehouse. When I walked on the set of The Muppet Show, I was with a gang that had a treehouse.

• 23:24Alec Baldwin?

  To hear more of my conversation with Paul Williams, go to here'sthething.org. After the break, Tommy James talks about the process of cloning the recordings of his own music to license for film and television.

• 23:39Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 24:12Speaker 06

  She'd throw things, wander, and started hoarding. Mom's Alzheimer's was already so hard, but then we found out she had agitation that may happen with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease. And that was a different kind of difficult. So we asked her doctor for more help.

• 24:28Speaker 07

  Seeing symptoms like these in a loved one? It could be time to ask their doctor about Rexulti, Rexipir's Old 2mg. The first FDA-approved treatment for this condition. Rexulti is proven to reduce agitation symptoms. Rexulti should not be used as an as-needed treatment. Elderly people with dementia-related psychosis have increased risk of death or stroke. Report fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, which can be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High blood sugar can lead to coma or death. Weight gain, increased cholesterol, unusual urges, dizziness on standing, falls, seizures, trouble swallowing, or sleepiness may occur. Learn more about these and other side effects at rexulti.com. Tap ad for PI.

• 25:02Speaker 06

  I'm glad I asked for help.

• 25:05Speaker 07

  Ask your loved one's doctor about Rexulti.

• 25:09Speaker 08

  This life check-in is brought to you by State Farm. Porque el bienestar de tu familia también merece protección. Okay, real talk. I'm about to become a dad again. And wow, it hits different the second time. Hi, I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and I've done, you know, I've done the red carpets, the long days on set and all that, but nothing prepares you for that moment when you're building a crib and you realize you're building a future. Familia is everything to me. The laughs, the chaos, the unconditional love, but also the pressure, la responsabilidad. If you're stepping into something big right now, starting a family, getting engaged, moving cities, you're not alone. Take one step at a time.

• 25:51Speaker 08

  Vibe, breathe, be present, and lean into the people. They've got your back. Y disfruta. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 26:01Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is Here's the Thing.

• 26:28Alec Baldwin?

  That's Tommy James and the Shandells performing "I Think We're Alone Now" from their 1966 album of the same name.

• 26:41Alec Baldwin?

  Tommy James is known for world famous hits like "Hanky Panky", "Sweet Cherry Wine", "Draggin' the Line", and "Three Times in Love", just to name a few. With so many famous chart toppers, I was curious if Tommy had a favorite song he's written that wasn't one of the hits.

• 27:00Speaker 05

  I always loved "Loved One". It's an album cut. It was a song that could very easily have been a single. It was that quality. And we just never, we didn't have the time to do it. We were just so involved in other things.

• 27:16Alec Baldwin?

  Time to do what?

• 27:17Speaker 05

  I didn't take the time to turn it into a hit. It's very close, the way it is. But it's more like a demo. But I just always was in love with that tune. And I wish we had taken the time to really turn it into the record it could have been. I may do it again. There's another one called "I'm Alive", that Johnny Thunder recorded, Tom Jones recorded. It was never a single by us, but we were gonna do it in the show. We do a new version of "I Think We're Alone Now", which is slow, acoustic, terribly different. We're doing a movie. Of the book.

• 28:00Speaker 05

  It's gonna be the last song you hear. Is this gonna be this new version of I Think We're Alone. And we released it in 2019 and it went top 20 for us, Adult Contemporary. And so it was great to be back on the charts.

• 28:14Alec Baldwin?

  Is it out now? You can, or you think that that covers out there?

• 28:17Speaker 05

  Yes, it's on YouTube. It's on, well, you name it, Amazon, you get the album, the whole album.

• 28:22Alec Baldwin?

  Now, let me ask you this. So you're out there now and it's all touring. Nobody's, they're kind of buying music, maybe. I spent hours hunting down albums on Apple Music that I can buy. I wanna pay the artists the royalty. I got your music in my, in my library and I pay for it. And sometimes you can't find it. Sometimes you can't get it. But you, but Download Watch, you're doing okay.

• 28:46Speaker 05

  Well, we've been very lucky because we have our own label and.

• 28:50Alec Baldwin?

  What's it called?

• 28:51Speaker 05

  Aura, A U R A.

• 28:52Alec Baldwin?

  Aura.

• 28:53Speaker 05

  We're internationally distributed. We've released several newer albums on Aura in the past 10 years, 12 years. And the last one was called Alive. And it's where the new I Think We're Alone now was. And, and we went top 20 Adult Contemporary with it also. So I'm really happy that we can, we can release music when we want to. Most of them are compilations, but we, every now and then we'll do a new studio album.

• 29:19Alec Baldwin?

  Now, the men in the band you co-wrote with, they have writing credits in a lot of this music as well.

• 29:24Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 29:24Alec Baldwin?

  Right, you, so you have a songwriting company?

• 29:28Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 29:28Alec Baldwin?

  Right. A publishing company that manages all of that. So, but you're still touring?

• 29:33Speaker 05

  Yes, and Sony represents our old publishing with Morris Levy. We were very lucky because from Morris Levy, Warner's owns our masters now from Roulette. And Sony owns the publishing. So Sony has delivered 93 movies, major movies for us since we've been with them. They've been wonderful.

• 29:55Alec Baldwin?

  To put your music in the movie?

• 29:56Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 29:57Alec Baldwin?

  93 movies?

• 29:59Speaker 05

  93 movies.

• 29:59Alec Baldwin?

  And the number one of choice is Crystal Blue?

• 30:02Speaker 05

  Well.

• 30:02Alec Baldwin?

  Money, money?

• 30:03Speaker 05

  All of them.

• 30:04Alec Baldwin?

  All of them.

• 30:04Speaker 05

  You know, all the, all the big hits.

• 30:06Alec Baldwin?

  Sweet Cherry Wine, I love.

• 30:07Speaker 05

  Yes, yes.

• 30:08Alec Baldwin?

  I remember all of those.

• 30:09Speaker 05

  And so we're, we're very lucky to be affiliated with Sony and with Warner's. Warner's done a good job too. You know, Warner's is owned by a consortium of Ukrainians.

• 30:21Speaker 05

  I'm not kidding you, you know.

• 30:24Alec Baldwin?

  I didn't know that.

• 30:24Speaker 05

  I'm trying to think of any American owned companies anymore. Of course Sony's the Japanese.

• 30:30Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 30:31Speaker 05

  But it's really interesting. The big fish have eaten the smaller ones. And there's like three companies now. You know, there's Universal, there's Warner's, the Warner Music Group and Sony Music Group. So the industry has really, well, it's huge and it's little.

• 30:48Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 30:48Speaker 05

  You know what I'm saying at the same time?

• 30:50Alec Baldwin?

  Like show business in general, yeah.

• 30:51Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 30:51Alec Baldwin?

  Small town. Do you have approval over who gets it or they do? Warner's or Sony?

• 30:56Speaker 05

  Well, what will happen is that the producers of a film will call to license certain pieces.

• 31:03Alec Baldwin?

  Do you have approval?

• 31:03Speaker 05

  Well, they don't have to, but they honor me with giving me that.

• 31:08Alec Baldwin?

  Great.

• 31:08Speaker 05

  That courtesy. We also have re-records. I have done clone re-records of 10 of the hits, 10 of the most used hits.

• 31:17Alec Baldwin?

  What's the purpose of that? What's a clone re-record? What is that?

• 31:19Speaker 05

  It is an exact duplicate as close as we can, literally as close as we can possibly get it to the original. To license, a lot of them, if they can't pay a large fee, will pay a smaller fee for the clone.

• 31:35Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 31:35Speaker 05

  And we own that, so Sony pitches both.

• 31:39Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 31:40Speaker 05

  Most people can't tell the difference.

• 31:41Alec Baldwin?

  Right. Now, when you're touring, what's different? I mean, obviously I'm older, you're older. When you're out there, is it as much fun? Other rock stars who I won't name, I'd go to the concert, they say, oh, no, no, no, the meal with them, the drink with them, the party with them is before the show now. It's not after the show. After the show, they go home and get in bed.

• 31:59Speaker 05

  Well, the truth is that not a hell of a lot has changed since the early, it's the one, live entertainment has never been bigger, number one, dollars and cents wise and every other way. And it's also not changed much.

• 32:16Speaker 05

  It's, it's, you know, still that relationship between the, the artist and, and the audience. And I must say that I love our fans, and I, I do mean that sincerely, because these people have put food on my table and a roof over my head for almost 60 years. Yeah. And never faltered once. And they stick with me, whatever project we're involved in. So I'm very grateful to our fans. That's why I don't talk politics at the concerts. Why would you intentionally offend half your audience? Why would you do that? Well, I've, I've learned my lesson about that, too. Why would you upset people? It's a business that depends totally on the goodwill of the public. Why would you do that?

• 33:01Speaker 05

  And I've never understood why an artist would do that unless they just can't stand not to. I don't know.

• 33:10Alec Baldwin?

  Musician and songwriter Tommy James. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the iHeart Radio app, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back, Tommy James talks about what the song "Crystal Blue Persuasion" is really about and the inspiration behind the title.

• 33:32Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 34:02Speaker 06

  She'd throw things, wander, and started hoarding. Mom's Alzheimer's was already so hard, but then we found out she had agitation that may happen with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease. And that was a different kind of difficult. So we asked her doctor for more help.

• 34:21Speaker 07

  Seeing symptoms like these in a loved one? It could be time to ask their doctor about Rexulti. Rexiprazole 2mg. The first FDA-approved treatment for this condition. Rexulti is proven to reduce agitation symptoms. Rexulti should not be used as an as-needed treatment. Elderly people with dementia-related psychosis have increased risk of death or stroke. Report fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, which can be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High blood sugar can lead to coma or death. Weight gain, increased cholesterol, unusual urges, dizziness on standing, falls, seizures, trouble swallowing, or sleepiness may occur. Learn more about these and other side effects at rexulti.com. Tap ad for PI.

• 34:56Speaker 06

  I'm glad I asked for help.

• 34:58Speaker 07

  Ask your loved one's doctor about Rexulti.

• 35:02Speaker 09

  This mood check is brought to you by State Farm. Porque tu bienestar también merece protección. Que tal, mi gente? Honey German checking in contigo? Take a second. Literalmente. Un momentico para ti. How's your corazón feeling today? If it's a little tired, a little uff, you're not alone. Have you eaten algo rico? Taken a deep breath? Maybe even turned off your phone for cinco minutitos? I promise, the memes will still be there. Sometimes self-care isn't candles and meditation. It's just saying no. It's drinking a little bit of agua. It's letting yourself rest sin pena. You don't have to prove anything today. Just be. Breathe. Estás haciendo lo mejor que puedes. And yes, that's enough.

• 35:46Speaker 09

  Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 35:52Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is Here's the Thing.

• 36:09Alec Baldwin?

  That's Tommy James and the Shondells performing "Dragging the Line" from their 1971 album, Christian of the World.

• 36:34Alec Baldwin?

  Earlier Tommy James detailed his encounter with George Harrison, who had presented Tommy and his band with songs that Harrison hoped they would record. Like the Harrison proposal, I was curious if Tommy James had ever written music for anyone else.

• 36:50Speaker 05

  I did, and I've produced several acts also. I wrote and produced Alive and Kicking's Tighter Tighter back in 1970. Johnny Lombardo for Paramount, Patty Austin, several acts. I'm a fan, first and foremost.

• 37:07Alec Baldwin?

  So am I. That's why I do this show.

• 37:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, right. And there are so many acts that I dearly love, that I've had the privilege of working with. Guys like Wilson Pickett, you know, I love Wilson. I play him all the time. Before he died, I had a chance to work with him. And he just blew the place apart. And he wasn't, he was sick, you know, and he wasn't feeling good. And so I, people like that, I got to work with them. Mamas and the Papas and the Beatles. I didn't work with the Beatles. I take that back. I met them. So I've been so blessed and fortunate in my life that I, I got to, all the acts that I was selling in the record shop too, you know, I, I'm working, a year later, I'm working with them.

• 37:55Alec Baldwin?

  Mark Farner came on the show from Grand Funk Railroad. I love Mark Farner.

• 37:59Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 38:00Alec Baldwin?

  I love Grand Funk Railroad.

• 38:01Speaker 05

  And I love their records.

• 38:02Alec Baldwin?

  Oh yeah, I love their music, I love. He did this show, and what he said was, he said, he was a very fit guy, very ripped guy, very athletic guy. And he rips his shirt off in the middle of the show. And the promoter comes backstage, he goes, "Oh my God, man, that was great." He goes, because in the back of the show, at the back of the house, they really can't see you that closely. And when you rip that shirt off, man, that's fantastic. And the question for you with that is, is like, were women jumping out of the bushes on you and your band? How did you handle that in terms of?

• 38:29Speaker 05

  Well, we had our share of that, but I mean, basically, you, you, you measured your success by how loud the girls screamed. And so there were lots of acts that got screams louder than us. That was part of the sixties. But gradually, you know, hopefully, you're talented enough to where your music takes over. I mean, don't get me wrong, I was very flattered and honored.

• 38:52Alec Baldwin?

  You were a young, healthy, American lad.

• 38:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, you know. But later in life, you better, your music better be saying something, because the screams don't last that long.

• 39:01Alec Baldwin?

  Well, you're one of those people, that music is something, you play it. That song comes on, you're not going to stop till you finish the song. It's like a movie.

• 39:07Speaker 05

  Well, thank you.

• 39:08Alec Baldwin?

  That music comes on, and it so evokes something. What I loved about music back then was music was music and talent was talent, and people weren't as cautious. So there's that famous thing on YouTube where you see Tom Jones singing with Crosby, Stills and Nash.

• 39:23Speaker 05

  Yeah. He could hold it with anybody, you know. I mean, any R and B artists, any pop artists.

• 39:27Alec Baldwin?

  David Crosby's there, but he's kind of playing and looking at Tom Jones like, wow, man, you really are pretty.

• 39:33Speaker 05

  He's the real deal, Tom Jones.

• 39:34Alec Baldwin?

  Amazing, you know what I mean? But that way of music was music. And people could just all just get into it together, because it wasn't about me, I'm over here, I'm different from you, whatever.

• 39:44Speaker 05

  No tricks.

• 39:45Alec Baldwin?

  Bingo, thank you, no tricks. Now, let me ask you this. You talk about the change. You weren't necessarily going to record certain types of music anymore, regardless of who had written it for you and was proposing it to you, à la Harrison and so forth. But no doubt, I'm assuming you've seen the montage on Breaking Bad of Crystal Blue Persuasion, correct?

• 40:03Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 40:03Alec Baldwin?

  You have, yeah. So, so the music, in a wonderful way, because as someone who works in film, music is critical. There's this wonderful sequence in Breaking Bad, Crystal Blue Persuasion just so happens to work perfectly. As they're mixing all the meth, the meth, in the meth lab.

• 40:21Speaker 05

  You know, I try to tell one group of people that, you know, I wrote it about the good Lord. And I tell another group of people who say, oh, was that about drugs, Tom? I say, no, it wasn't, but we'll.

• 40:33Alec Baldwin?

  That song is, of course, one of the anthems of Getting High. It's a great headshot song.

• 40:38Speaker 05

  I don't know whether to say thank you or not, I just. Well, you know, it was at the right time in the 60s.

• 40:46Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, it worked.

• 40:47Speaker 05

  Buzz Aldrin asked me to come and play at the, they had a reunion of all the people in 19. It was the 60th year of the

• 40:57Alec Baldwin?

  Apollo.

• 40:58Speaker 05

  Moon landing.

• 40:58Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 40:59Speaker 05

  And he asked, it called and asked if I would come and do Crystal Blue because it was number one when

• 41:06Alec Baldwin?

  They landed.

• 41:07Speaker 05

  When they landed on

• 41:08Alec Baldwin?

  They should have played that on the moon.

• 41:09Speaker 05

  I would be honored. Are you kidding? So, I mean, I'm so pleased that our music has affected people like that. I really am.

• 41:17Alec Baldwin?

  But like the Beatles, you, you really make a sharp turn there. And it becomes music that's almost, it's, it's, was that song, like the Beatles complained for years, was that song tough to play live?

• 41:27Speaker 05

  No, I, I, it's probably my favorite song. I don't know between, it's a toss up between Moni and Crystal Blue because of the meaning of the song and, and the fact that it was such a big hit for us and

• 41:40Alec Baldwin?

  And the meaning is what? From your mouth?

• 41:42Speaker 05

  Well, all I can say is it meant being persuaded by the truth. And that really is, is true. It's a, it's a song about my faith that was blooming at the time. And about my Christian faith and it was very much, you know, these

• 42:01Alec Baldwin?

  Do you still live there now in that space now?

• 42:04Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 42:04Alec Baldwin?

  Good for you.

• 42:05Speaker 05

  Absolutely, more than ever.

• 42:06Alec Baldwin?

  Wow.

• 42:07Speaker 05

  It was like Sweet Cherry Wine and Ball of Fire. They were snapshots of what I was feeling at the time. And Crystal Blue was, you know, it started, you know how it came, it's just a damnedest story. I was playing at Miami, I was playing a college in Miami. And this nerdy little kid with glass, thick glasses comes up to me after the show with a poem. He said, Tommy, read my poem, please. And it was called Crystal Persuasion.

• 42:37Speaker 05

  And, you know, as a songwriter, you're always looking for titles. You're always on the make for interesting word combinations, especially back in the 60s. Always looking for interesting combinations of words. And so "Crystal Persuasion," that's kind of an interesting, kind of an interesting visual. I don't quite sure what it means yet. But, so we took it home, we wrote it that night, and we just needed another, one more syllable to have the rhyming scheme work. And so we said, and I just thought of, you know, so many times, you know, a crystal like a diamond has a faint bluish tint to it, and I said, "Crystal Blue Persuasion," it sounded poetic.

• 43:20Alec Baldwin?

  This guy that wrote the poem?

• 43:21Speaker 05

  He never contacted me.

• 43:23Alec Baldwin?

  I was gonna say, so he's not living in a forty million dollar mansion in Miami?

• 43:27Speaker 05

  No, no, he's not.

• 43:28Alec Baldwin?

  I thought maybe you, you know, had got, yeah, okay. He just disappeared.

• 43:31Speaker 05

  He's not fishing on a pontoon boat that I know of. So, at any rate, and I tried to look this kid down, but now the, now the words were not, we changed the words, obviously.

• 43:41Alec Baldwin?

  It's not his poem.

• 43:43Speaker 05

  We just used the title. But I always wanted to thank him and never got the chance, so I don't know. We may bump into him sometime, but this was 68. And the record, we went and it was so frustrating, it was probably the hardest record I ever produced. We went in the studio and completely overproduced the record.

• 44:02Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, what do you mean by that?

• 44:03Speaker 05

  We just put too much crap in it. And, you know, we had a full set of drums, we had two or three guitars, we had, you know, just too much stuff.

• 44:11Alec Baldwin?

  Who plays that opening lick on the guitars?

• 44:13Speaker 05

  That was Eddie Gray, our guitar player.

• 44:15Alec Baldwin?

  Eddie Gray, that's great, I love that, that's almost like Santana.

• 44:19Speaker 05

  It wasn't that great. And the night we wrote the song, he, he came up with that. As a matter of fact, he came up with the chords.

• 44:27Speaker 05

  I said, "What's that?" And he said, "It's something I'm fooling around." I said, "That's great, do it again."

• 44:31Alec Baldwin?

  Oh my God, great openings.

• 44:33Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 44:34Alec Baldwin?

  I've admired you for so long, I've listened to your music forever, and I'm so glad to meet you.

• 44:39Speaker 05

  Well, thank you. God bless you, my friend.

• 44:46Alec Baldwin?

  My thanks to Tommy James. I'll leave you with "Crystal Blue Persuasion", off the 1968 album Crimson and Clover. I'm Alec Baldwin, here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.

• 45:50Speaker 10

  I love a brighter smile. What I don't love is that little wince when I take a sip of something cold or even breathe in cold air. You know that feeling? It takes your breath away, that ouch, eek. That's why I like Sensodyne Clinical White. Its triple action formula whitens, polishes, and helps protect against sensitivity. Plus, it protects against new stains for up to six months. So I can keep enjoying my iced coffee and everything else I love without the sensitivity. Wider teeth without the wince. Try Sensodyne Clinical White today.

• 46:23Speaker 11

  This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Every friend group has that one person who puts their card down for brunch and sends the Venmo requests. If that's you and your Venmo balance is poppin'. You need a Venmo debit MasterCard so that you can spend your balance instantly. No transferring anything, no waiting around. So as soon as you get paid back for brunch, you can pay for those concert tickets you've been eyeing or put it toward your next night out. Plus, there's no monthly fee or minimum balance. Learn more about the Venmo debit card at venmo.com/card. Venmo balance account required to get the card. And use a balance effective November 1st, 2026. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank, N.A.

• 47:06Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.