130: Red Flags & Green Flags: How to Know If They're Serious About You With Francesca Tighinean

Ever found yourself overanalyzing texts, questioning someone’s interest, or feeling stuck in a cycle of mixed signals? In this episode, I sit down with Francesca Tighinean, a coach with a background in psychology, to break down the real signs of attraction vs. manipulation. We’re diving into love bombing, future faking, and the subtle body language cues that reveal whether someone is genuinely interested—or just keeping you around for their own validation. If you’ve ever been caught in the push-pull of someone who showers you with attention one day and disappears the next, this episode is your wake-up call. We’re giving you the tools to spot red flags early, avoid emotional whiplash, and date with more clarity and confidence. Press play now! MERCH IS NOW AVAILABLE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course HERE! Do you feel like your emotions run the show and react in ways you can’t control? Join the Nervous System 101: Navigating the Unknowns In Early Dating from Sabrina and Masha Kay HERE! Struggling with a breakup? Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course from Sabrina and Britt Frank HERE! Get Ad free HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Don't forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and Sabrina on TikTok! Video now available on YOUTUBE! Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A. Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sabrina Zohar?

  Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host. Happy Friday, babes. I'm so excited. Today, we have Francesca. She is a coach. She studied psychology. She is phenomenal. And we talk about are they wasting your time? Or are they actually into you? We go over body language, some red flags and green flags to look out for. And I'm really amped because this episode is so jam packed with some really good stuff. Now, babies, don't forget, please rate, review the show, follow on the socials, give me some love. Don't forget, I read all the reviews. So let's speak with some kindness. And don't forget, merch is out. If you guys need anything, you got the courses. We are here to support you in any ways. There's some free guides. Everything's in the link in show notes if you need anything.

• 0:43Sabrina Zohar?

  And as always, don't forget, send in your questions for our In the Trenches series, [email protected], stories, screenshots, send it to me. If you want profile audits, whatever you guys need, we are here to support you guys. I love you, babies, and thank you as always for showing up as you and allowing me to show up as myself. So without further ado, let's get right on into it, shall we? Hi, Francesca.

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Hello, Sabrina.

• 1:05Sabrina Zohar?

  I am so excited. Welcome to the Sabrina Zohar Show. I am so fucking excited to have you today because you are such an amazing coach and speaker and voice. And I am so excited to have the audience learn more about you. I was just on your podcast, now you're on mine.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

• 1:25Sabrina Zohar?

  Can we start off? Could you share a little bit about your background, who you are, your work, what you like to do, and how you got into just even being in this space?

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, my God. I mean, I've been passionate about psychology ever since I was like 13. And my mom went to her first self-development seminar. And it was with this, I think it was like a clinical psychologist, but it was a very impactful one. And she came back like a changed person. I was like, oh, my God, I want to go. I want to experience this. And then I started going to like self-development courses and seminars and reading books and, you know, watching series on body language. And then I went on to study psychology in university and it was just like a whole thing. And, you know, my social media channel started off by me just wanting to share some of the things I was learning

• 2:14Speaker 01

  in my courses or from books or seminars. And yeah, I mean, they grew so fast. And then, you know, I started doing life coaching as well. And it's a whole thing now. The podcast, the coaching, the social media channels. Yeah, it's really exciting.

• 2:31Sabrina Zohar?

  I love it. And I think today, the reason I really wanted you on was because I know that you have different insights, which is always really fun. But I also wanted to understand more, like, I think we see so much on the internet and I know you see the same side of the internet that I see. Of like, there's a lot of black and white thinking, right? This is how you know someone likes you. This is how you know they don't. And what I find is like, there's just not enough nuance, not enough shades of gray. And really, I wanted for us to talk today, like, are they into you or are they just wasting your time? And I'm curious to hear, I can share, I've got plenty of stories, but I'm curious to hear, starting with yours. Have you ever experienced that dating, being out there where you really believed that this person was into you and they were just fucking using you or stringing you along?

• 3:13Sabrina Zohar?

  And like, what did that look like for you? I'm curious your experiences in that department.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, especially when I was, you know, in university or right after university and I was like dating and going loads of dates. I had so many experiences where I had no idea what was going on. I was just like confused, you know, and the guy, and this is something that usually happens with avoidant people and that I've noticed like a pattern, especially in my dating experience. When they're in person with you, you know, they'd be super affectionate and present and all in, you know, future faking, which means, you know, they're talking about the future, like, oh, our kids are gonna look so cute. And they do that on the first date. By the way, that's a sign to run. So in person, they're being really

• 4:02Speaker 01

  great, right? But then when we would be away. They would disappear, you know, like they would stop texting or they would text very inconsistently. They wouldn't call, it would be really hard to plan dates. Their answers would be short, you know, they would only show up when they were in the mood or when they wanted to meet. So, yeah, I experienced that a lot. And, you know, a lot of love bombing, a lot of, you know, some of the manipulation tactics we hear about, I, I definitely experienced like all of those. How about you?

• 4:38Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, fuck yeah. I'm excited for us to work because we're gonna unpack all of that. Oh my God, I, it's like as you were talking, I'm just like, it's cascading the stories. You know, you just see the names and the risks and you're like.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Flashbacks.

• 4:49Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, what I used to be, what I used to really overlook was those kinds of behaviors early on, right? Like, I used to think if somebody came out the gate at a hundred, great, then that means look, right? If you don't accept me at my worst, you don't get me at my best. And it's like, nope. Because I think what we see is like, I used to be into that school of thought that if somebody doesn't start off how you want them to be, well, then what are you leaving for the rest of it? And what really ended up happening, to your point, was I would go for people that would love bomb the shit out of me. They would come on so strong. I'll never forget when I lived in Venice, this guy, we matched on Hinge and he was messaging me every single day. He got my phone number, we were texting. And here is like that glaring red flag I completely overlooked, which was, I just get

• 5:35Sabrina Zohar?

  out of a relationship. And in my head, I was like, oh, whatever, you know? And the first date already, like, I'll never forget, he, like, we met and then he was like, do you wanna go? My friends are in Malibu, let's go to the beach. And I was like, okay. And within like 10 minutes of being with this guy, like, he picked me up somewhere and then we drove because of the where it was, I was in Venice. And we like go to the grocery store and already it's very like trying to be coupley, like he's holding my hand and I'm like, I met this guy 10 minutes ago, literally, like this is the first moment. And he's being all over me. He's making cute little innuendos. Then I'm like, we're meeting your friends. They all love me. He's talking about stuff that we should all do together. And then we're driving back. And I remember he dropped, like, he like dropped me off. And then I was like, you know, do you want to like, hang out a little bit longer? And so we walked back to my house. And we just like, we're making out and hanging out.

• 6:20Sabrina Zohar?

  We took the dog for a walk. And I remember, all he was trying to do was like, get intimate. And I kept saying like, hey, I'm just, I don't want to do that. I don't know you enough. Like, something just felt off. And it's like, sure enough, what happened after that? Like, he completely changed. And to this day, I'm not like, I don't think that this he was a bad person. But what I will say is, I didn't want to acknowledge that I was uncomfortable on the date, that the way he was acting made me feel, this doesn't feel proportionate. But instead, I was like, Sabrina, come on, he likes you. Just like, pay attention. And I think so many of us get caught in that. And not out of malice, right? This isn't intentional. But I am curious, like, what do you, in your experience clinically, professionally, and

• 7:00Sabrina Zohar?

  personally, see that why do people struggle with seeing the truth in these dating experiences?

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Because they're so hungry, you know, for validation, for affection, for love. And when someone love bombs you and is going in 100%, which isn't healthy, by the way, you know, like, an emotionally mature people will open up slowly. You know, I like to use this metaphor with the tap of water, like, you don't open it like, full speed, you know, you open it, a few drops of vulnerability and intimacy, because they want to, like, emotional intimacy takes time to build, you know, that connection. You know, when someone is coming off really strong, like 100%, talking about, you know, acting like you're a couple and you met 10 minutes ago, like you were saying, they're trying to create that quick

• 7:49Speaker 01

  emotional bond. And, you know, it's usually because they want to get in your pants, like, they're trying to like, sleep with you, or, you know, they're, you know, emotion, like, emotionally unavailable, avoidant. So, you know, everyone needs emotional intimacy, but They will swing between extremes usually. So one day, you know, they're super affectionate. But then the moment they get that intimacy, they will switch in the other extreme and they'll be completely unavailable.

• 8:19Sabrina Zohar?

  Hundred percent. I know for me, I'm curious if you had the same experience. The expectation versus reality was really tough for me to gripe, especially with a lot of these guys. I would overconflate, right? Like, I was guilty of looking at their social media before we even met. And then you see, oh, well, they went on this trip, right? Oh, like, I remember one guy I went out with, he dated a celebrity. And so I was like, oh, my God. So if she liked him, and this guy was a wet noodle. I was so disinterested in him. Like, he had zero personality. I'm kidding, like, I'm not kidding. It was like pulling teeth. But I looked at it as, well, if she liked you, then why don't I like you? Right? And then, so I think, like, when we focus on what we wish we were seeing versus what we actually are seeing, that to me, and like you said, you're hungry, right?

• 9:03Sabrina Zohar?

  When you're so thirsty, you're just gonna drink anything. You drink the poison. But I am curious to see, like, how can we actually start to differentiate between what am I actually seeing versus what do I really want this to be? Like, what are your favorite modalities, tools, things to be able to tap back into that authentic self?

• 9:21Speaker 01

  To see reality, you mean, like, to see this person for who they truly are? Yeah, it's really easy to project our needs and, you know, what we need in that moment. Because, as you said, we're so thirsty, we're hungry. And especially, this happens a lot with someone that's emotionally unavailable, you know? And you might have seen this, like, there is this trend at one point, like, the dead eyes. You know, like, when someone is emotionally unavailable, many times they will have, like, dead eyes. You can see it in their eyes, like, there's no life behind them. And it's very easy to project what you want on them, your fantasies, your needs. You know, you're building up this image that's not real of a person.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  It's your fantasy, your unicorn, has nothing to do with the actual person. So it's really important, you know, to step back into reality, understand why you do it in the first place. You know, for a lot of people, Romantic obsession, fantasizing, projecting, you know, going for unavailable people that they can fantasize about, that give them that space to, you know, create that imaginary image is a form of escapism, where, you know, they they have a shitty life, to put it like very bluntly. You know, they're not enjoying their life, they're not fulfilled. So they use romance as a way to escape, you know.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  It's like, uh, reading, uh, I I read fantasy, like romance fantasy books. It's very similar, you know, like you use it as a form of escapism. Or, you know, like you yourself are emotionally unavailable. And, you know, it's easier to imagine and project and to fall in love with this imaginary character than with a real person that has flaws, you know. And, you know, there are poop things as well. So it's it's really important to understand why in the first place and become conscious and then step back into reality. You know, start seeing them for who they truly are. Like something I like to do is, for instance, make a list, you know,

• 11:32Speaker 01

  make a list of all the positive traits they have and also all the negative traits they have. What do you like about them? What do they, what do you not like about them? So and try to, you know, step out of this emotional storm that's going on inside of you when you're, you know, attached or really in love with someone. And think from like a very logical, critical perspective, like, okay, what are their flaws and what are their, you know, like, good sides? Well, what what do you think? What are some of your strategies?

• 12:07Sabrina Zohar?

  Personally, for me, it's funny because that's why I created I Have a Nervous System course. And it was because when I was dating, my nervous system was dictating the realities, right? Oh, well, that person, you feel all of this. Oh, that's familiar. I personally didn't understand what it meant to regulate and come back to the present moment. I always thought it was, oh, meditate. And it's like, I'm not meditating when I'm feeling really anxious. My brain's not going to be able to do that, right? If there's a danger, my body's Like, girl, run. So one thing I like is similar to what you're saying is like to make them a real person, right? So I would use to like, when I would start to write off, oh, well, they're so amazing. What makes them so amazing? Give me three examples, right? How did I feel when I was with them? I felt really excited. Okay, what was I excited about? Who they are, the potential? What was it about? I like to quantify, right? If I say, well, they're really thoughtful.

• 12:52Sabrina Zohar?

  Three examples of what made me think that they're thoughtful, right? And it's like, maybe they made a statement of how they picked their sister up from school. And it's like, okay, so I'm going based off their words, not their actions. And so I think it's really, for me, really important to come back to your body, understand your nervous system, right? And like be present in the moment. And I know that that could feel really scary because I used to fantasize, and that was my way of self abandoning. It was my way, to your point of being emotionally unavailable. If I focus on them, I don't have to focus on me. If I can hyper, if I could just hyper focus and become very in tune with what they're going through. And it's kind of a joke that Ryan and I have when people will say my avoidant. And Ryan's like, they're not a Tamagotchi, okay? This is not a toy. This is not a Furby. This is not, I'm aging myself by saying this.

• 13:36Sabrina Zohar?

  This isn't like a doll that you take on and off the shelf. This is a human with a real human experience. And if you know so much about their attachment style, how they act, how they do, tell me what you know about yours, right? And I am, I wanted to ask you, because we've talked about emotionally unavailable. And I wanted to know your thoughts truly. How does that manifest? Like, what is, what does that actually look like in practicality? Because I saw on threads the other day, someone said, like, hot take, there's no such thing as being emotionally unavailable. This is bullshit psychology terms that are excusing bad behavior. That person's just not into you.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  I'll tell you what an emotionally available or like secure person looks like first. So someone that's like securely attached, you know, emotionally unavailable, they will be very direct. They'll be very open. They're comfortable with sharing their feelings, expressing their feelings. They'll be like, hey, I like you. Do you want to go on a date? Or, hey, I'm not feeling this. I want to stay friends. Like, they're, they're be very clear, you know? Like, hey, I want to, you know, see where this goes. They, they will not hide how they feel. They will not play games. They'll just be like very straight up, so very healthy, chill. Someone that's anxiously attached will usually play games. They're terrified of rejection, so their approach will be more indirect.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  You know, so they will be like, uh, trying to avoid rejection by hinting in like really subtle ways, by dropping cues. They're the ones watching all my body language tricks videos.

• 15:08Sabrina Zohar?

  We're gonna get to that.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll get into that. But you know, like, you know, the person becomes the center of their world after a week of meeting them. So, you know, that's a whole nother thing. But then with someone that's unavailable or, you know, avoidantly attached, first they'll come off as independent and detached, which can be really attractive, especially for anxiously attached people. Cause like, oh, you don't need me, you know, like you're so, you have like that strong sense of self. But it will be really hard for them to express feelings to, they will struggle with having like deep, you know, conversations or like, you know, planning for the future.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  They'll struggle, you know, with like being available for the other person. They'll be inconsistent. They'll drop like mixed signals. You know, one day, what we were talking about before, one day they're, they're available and they're loving and affectionate and the other, they're not there, they disappear. You know, every person has the need for intimacy. So it's not like they're completely shut off. Like they will sometimes crave that, but then they'll go back. So the biggest indicator I would say is that they're inconsistent. You know, in their actions and with their feelings. What do you think?

• 16:27Sabrina Zohar?

  A hundred percent to your point, the anxious person also embodies that, right? Because I think we underestimate, I hear this all day of like, well, they're emotionally unavailable. I'm trying to talk to them. I'm trying. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, baby. Sending a barrage of texts, sending 600 different thought processes, jumping all over the board. You know, going from like, I've seen some of these messages and I'm like, I don't know what the through line is. What is the message you're trying to get across? Because that disconnection from self is where I see emotionally available means I understand myself. I understand this triggered me. Here's what came up for me. Can I articulate that to you? Let me share that with you. Right? Instead of, well, you didn't text me because you don't like me. And it's like, so we're making it about them. As opposed to saying they didn't text me. Oh, it makes me feel like I'm not a priority.

• 17:12Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay. Is that factually what's going on right now? No, I've met this person once. I have no idea who they are. Right? Like I saw this me, it was a video the other day. Of this one creator and someone called into his show and she said, God, I've had one date with this guy and he just, my God, he won't stop texting me. And she's like, what boundary can I set? This is really overwhelming. She's like, it's good morning. How are you? How's your day? What's up? And she's like, I've known him once. And it really annoyed me because the guy was like, really? And, you know, he was like, you know, if you liked him, you probably wouldn't be saying this. And I was like, excuse me? And everybody in the comments was like, she's just avoidant and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, actually, no, she has every right to say that's overwhelming. The pinch doesn't match the ouch. Even if I really liked you, I don't want to start at 100. Because to me, that felt like she

• 17:57Sabrina Zohar?

  was tapping into her body. She was saying, I don't like this feeling. This doesn't work for me. I'm not enjoying this. It's overwhelming to me. Right? That to me, as somebody who's emotionally available to say, hey, I want to express to you, I'm just trying to figure out the words. How do I say this to somebody? And that's why I always thought my partner was so hot. Because, yeah, he has his avoidant tendencies, just like I have my anxious tendencies. But he was incredibly emotionally available to say, hey, nope, this doesn't work for me. Let me articulate. I'm clear about this. Let me show up for you consistently. And it allowed us to build a real and solid foundation as opposed to starting off really hot and then being so up and down. Because someone asked, why do some people come on strong and then disappear? And I think you kind of just nailed it of like, I would love

• 18:40Sabrina Zohar?

  to go into more of that future faking, love bombing versus genuine interest. Like, how can you spot the difference?

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Between genuine interest and love bombing or future faking? Yeah, I mean, it's what we were saying before as well, like, when they're future faking, for instance, they will, you know, they'll create this image of the future. So they create like that quick emotional bond when that attachment, they're trying to get you attached. You know, yesterday, actually, I was watching Love is Blind with my boyfriend, made him watch it. And, you know, this guy was like saying, Oh, you can. So this girl, basically, she didn't have a family or she didn't have a good relationship with her mom and her dad died or something like this. And then the guy was like, oh, you can be part of my family. And, you know, you could see her, she's already

• 19:30Speaker 01

  like falling in love. Because, you know, this guy, and then five minutes later, he's flirting with some other girl. He's like, you know, oh, I love you and I love your vibe and I can't wait to put a ring on it. You could be my wife, you know. So like, you know, it's giving you what you need and telling you what you to hear to create that emotional attachment really quickly. You know, so the difference is that they're trying to do it really quickly and they come off really strong. But then they're very inconsistent about it. You know, like we were saying earlier, they're very consistent for three days and then they disappear for a week. And you're trying to plan a date and you can't because they're so busy, you

• 20:14Speaker 01

  know, like, yeah.

• 20:16Sabrina Zohar?

  It's funny you bring up Love is Blind, because I, same thing, we're watching it and I'm like, I'm very bored by this season because it's so much trauma dumping. All I'm seeing is like, sharing, already it's like the third time, second time they're in the room and they're talking about their opioid addiction and their family and all this. And it's like, it's a false sense of intimacy quickly. And when people overshare because they're trying to connect and they're trying to force and expedite. And I'm not saying it's out of malice. Like, I do want to be clear. It's not that, it's not always like, yes, can narcissist love bomb? Yeah, sometimes that's out of manipulation and things like that. But then there are other people that love bomb because they want to seek a quick safety. They want to expedite that so that they can feel good. You're not going to leave me, right? If I share all this with you and you know everything about me, you're going

• 20:57Sabrina Zohar?

  to love me and you're going to support me. But what I kind of see there is like, again, the pinch doesn't match the ouch. Right? If somebody, like Matthew Hussey once said it, he was like, if somebody walks by your house and said they like it, do you just give them the keys? No, right? Like, you'd just be like, okay, thank you. You know, I need to make sure that this person has funds in the bank before I go cash the check. And I think that's really where I see the disconnect. And I wanted to go, I want to segue kind of into like, okay, so we understand why we overlook the flags, whether that be an attachment, whether that be a familiar pattern, whether that be I'm scared to be alone, right? Like, I think we cognitively understand that. But I want to kind of talk about Really, I love your content on the body language, the cues, subtle way, things like that. I think it's so fun to look at beyond just words, right?

• 21:41Sabrina Zohar?

  Words and behavior. But can we go into, we'll break it down into how you know they like you versus how you know they don't, right? The green flags into the red flags. But could we talk about? What are some body language, some cues, some psychological things? What are things that you have learned, experienced, whatever, that you could start to identify? Right? Like, I know for me, I'll be honest, when I used to bite my lip, right? Like, I used to look at a guy and start playing with my lips because I really wanted him to kiss me. But I didn't know how to ask for it. But I would be curious to hear more things like that, that would cue and indicate that this person's, at the very least, right? It doesn't mean they want a relationship with you, but they're interested.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  So yeah, that's one of them, for instance. Transferring what you, they would like you to do to them onto an object. So, you know, like they're caressing a glass, the way you, they'd like you to caress them, you know, like those kind of things.

• 22:33Sabrina Zohar?

  I didn't know that.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's interesting, right? So, for instance, they will become louder when, if you're in a group setting, you know, to attract your attention. Or, on the contrary, you know, when they're talking to you directly, they might, they might become more shy and flustered because, you know, they're intimidated and they're trying not to fuck it up. For instance, if you're in a group, again, they will want to see your reaction if someone is telling a joke or a story. You know, they're, you're gonna be the first person they look at. Or even when the group is laughing, you know, they'll look at you, they wanna see your reaction. Another one is that their feet are pointing towards you, even if their torso is pointed somewhere else or they're talking to someone else.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  Because, you know, our feet, we kind of indicate where our attention really is, like unconsciously. Because it's the member that's furthest away from our body. And like, you know, we usually control our facial features or our hands. Like, we think about where to put them and how to place them, but not our feet. So that would be like the explanation. Another one is that, you know, they'll change their position when they, when you enter the room. So, you know, if I was just staying like this and then I see you enter the room, I'm like straightening my back. You know, I'm like maybe arranging my hair, playing with my necklace. And it's all a way to, you know, make myself unconsciously, you know, look more attractive for you.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Then some other things, like small things is like if I see you, my eyes widen or, you know, I raise my eyebrows a little bit. And then if we're talking, I will like lean forward, you know, cause when, when you're interested in what someone has to say, like you'll lean forward. Now, this doesn't necessarily have to be romantic, you know, it can also be like, you know, at a podcast and I'm really engaged in the conversation or with a friend. But usually when someone's interested in what you have to say or you, they will lean forward. Another one is that they will do a drag touch. So a friend will, you know, when they hug you, they'll tap and release, you know, it's very simple.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  But when someone likes you, their hand will linger a bit longer. So like they'll drag their hand. And again, they'll find any excuse to touch you or, you know, just be in your proximity. My friend was telling me two days ago, like her ex-boyfriend, she works at a reception and he's, he works in another department. And he has no business being at reception, but he would always end up being at reception or around that area, you know. So, you know, they always end up like in your proximity, close to you, find any excuse to touch you. You know, usually men will take up more space, for instance, you know, stretch out and it's like this, this is all like subconscious and very like reptilian brain.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  It's like a way to make themselves appear more dominant, you know, more masculine. Yeah. So the, it's a lot of like this subtle body language cues that can tell you if someone is attracted to you or not.

• 25:37Sabrina Zohar?

  I love this shit. I do. I love body language because I'm saying like, if I'm really engaged, I'm, I'm directly eye contact, right? Like my, I'm, I'm facing towards you. Like I, I think it was, I think it was Gillian who posted something saying like, and you know, if you're talking to someone and they constantly pull their phone out. It's like, okay, well then they're breaking that contact with you, right? And we'll get into the signs that they're not. But I want to preface, right, for anybody listening, because it reminds me, I have one client, and I love her, and this kind of is similar, where she has a guy that does all of this stuff, but then he doesn't do anything with it, right? Like, anytime they see each other in a group, he's always rushing to her first, right? He's making sure that he, he's always paying attention to her. But then anytime it's like, let's hang out, let's make plans, that's it, right?

• 26:19Sabrina Zohar?

  He just completely drops the ball, says, gives an excuse of like, oh, I'm not great at dating, or like, oh, I'm not good at this, yeah, a lot of people tell me that. And it's like, that's where we have to go and say, listen, these are all really great subtle cues, and you can look into it, and you can appreciate it. But if they're not doing anything beyond that.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, these cues could also be just that someone wants to sleep with you. So it doesn't mean they want to be in a relationship with you, you know? Like, this could be the behavior of someone that is, or not even that, maybe they're just platonically interested in you, you know? And they get a bit shy or flustered when they're around, even though they have no intention. I mean, something that shows they're actually interested is things like, you know, consistently texting you every day, remembering small details about you, you know? Like, trying to help you if you have a challenge, like, these are, you know, and just like, being consistent and making things clear. But, you know, about what you were saying with your friend, like, sometimes, and this is not always the case, but sometimes, maybe the other person is just shy.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  You know, I was talking the other day to someone, and she said her ex was extremely shy, and he would give her like, all these subtle cues that he likes her, but he was just too shy to like, make a move. So she opened the door for him, you know, like, by, I think it was just like texting him or DMing him on Instagram, and then he just started talking, you know? It was just enough to open the door, to make it clear, okay, I'm interested as well. And then he was like, oh my God, thank you so much for making them a first move, because I was thinking for months, how can I, you know, talk to you, or how can I start a conversation? So that could be it.

• 28:00Sabrina Zohar?

  With her, it's a different story, unfortunately. With her, it's like she's been very clear. They've had plans, he stood up. Oh, okay. They've like, he's, yeah, that's, that's where I'm like, there's, and I totally know what you mean. For some people, if they're giving you these clues, but no one's saying anything and no one's doing anything. Sure, they might be shy, they don't know, especially now with like, there are a lot of men I talk to that are like, I don't know how to act around women, I don't want to be inappropriate, I don't want them to feel like I'm not respecting them. This is very different where she's, people have told him she likes him, she's told him she likes him. Like, there's not been any confusion, he's just not doing anything about it. He just likes the attention. Exactly. And the only thing I will clarify is one thing you had said about the consistency. When it comes to the texting, I'm all about that when you're in a relationship.

• 28:43Sabrina Zohar?

  My issue comes when we demand that after a date, right? Like, why aren't they texting me every day? It's like, that doesn't mean that somebody likes you. Someone could text you every day and have zero intentions for a relationship. And some people could be like my partner and text you every other day, or, you know, call instead, make a plan, and show up consistently in different ways. But I think to your point, what we're looking for is they plan, they follow through. They, who they are is who they continue to be. And that is a huge flag, right? They don't just like, they're not just checking in to be like, hey, how are you? Good, good, okay, thanks. They'll check in and be like, cool, can I see you? Right? How has your week been going? Oh, you had a really hard day Monday, right? You said that you were gonna have this surgery and you're like, oh, thanks for remembering that. Like, yeah.

• 29:26Sabrina Zohar?

  You know, I remember when I was doing Shark Tank, this guy I went on a date with, we never saw each other again, but like, he, we had a date like a few days prior. He texts me the day of Shark Tank and was like, break a leg. He texts me the next day, how did it go? He called me that night and supported me through it, and we never hung out again. But we just realized like, it was just enough for us to say, you're a really good person. Like you said, it was an interest as who we are as individuals and friendship, but it didn't mean we wanted more. But it's those little things that, when we see, right? They ask meaningful questions, like they remember things that you say about yourself. And it's not just, oh, wow, like, I've, I've had that where I've told a guy six times that like, I have a sister and brother, and you're like, do you just not, are you not listening? Because you keep asking if I have siblings, or saying my younger sister, and I'm like, I'm the youngest.

• 30:11Sabrina Zohar?

  Like, it's just those little cues. I wanted to play a fun rapid fire of, do you think this is red flag or green flag? Ooh, interesting. Okay, ready? I've got four of them. They text you every day but never make real plans.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Red flag. Because, you know, as you were saying before, they don't have to necessarily be big on texting, but they have to be consistent with other things like, you know, planning to actually see you, that's the most important thing. If they're planning, like, okay, let's see each other in two days, let's see each other in a week, you know, like, even if they're not big texters, that's still a green flag. But if they're just texting, it means they're just trying to, I don't know, like, kill the time, like, get some validation, but they have no real interest.

• 30:56Sabrina Zohar?

  We all love that dopamine. All right. They say they aren't looking for anything serious, but they act like your boyfriend or girlfriend.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Huge, huge, huge red flag.

• 31:06Sabrina Zohar?

  It's just that inconsistency. For me, I'm curious your thoughts. I've never been a fan of actions speak louder than words, because I want them to align. I have it, where I've dated guys that say, "I'm not looking for anything serious," and then we're hanging out every day and we're doing all this stuff, so you're like, "Okay, actions, right? They're speaking louder." No, that person still didn't want a relationship with you.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's so true. That's so true. They should align. But then you shouldn't, you should definitely not put too much emphasis on the words. That's for sure.

• 31:33Sabrina Zohar?

  Hundred percent. Hundred percent. All right. It's an interesting one. They're still following their ex and liking all their posts. Now, the only way, I'm gonna say, we're gonna caveat this, if you have children together, I'm not gonna say that this counts, because like, if you're liking the photos of the kids. Let's say outside of you shared children and they're liking a photo of that, right? So they're still following their ex and they like all their posts.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  I mean, generally speaking, it's a red flag. There could be some exceptions where, you know, they became really good friends and it's generally just a friendship and you, as your, as, you know, their partner, are okay with the friendship and all that. You know, like, it depends. I don't wanna be, you know, black and white here. You know, there are nuances sometimes, but generally speaking, yeah, it's usually a red flag.

• 32:22Sabrina Zohar?

  It's funny, I was watching this like show that we watch this like house show, uh, the flip off. It's Christina and Tara. It's like they're this just HGTV couple and then now they split up and she had her ex on. And he was the judge and the other, the wife of the other guy, she even said, she goes, I knew it. I started seeing her, them liking each other's content all the time. I knew they were talking again. And I was, I laughed, I chuckled when I heard that and I was like, you're not wrong. There's a difference between like, I've got guys I've dated that it never went anywhere. We never slept together. Like we didn't do anything. We went on maybe three or four dates and to this day, I like posts of them with their girlfriend. Like I'm, I'm encouraging like, you guys look beautiful together, right? I think there's a difference versus your ex that, or your, your partner that's being evasive about their ex and saying, no, no, yeah.

• 33:05Sabrina Zohar?

  But then all their bikini photos they like and put a flame on. It's like, that's a different story. I think like you said, there is a nuance here for a lot of these. Okay. And then the last one, this I think is also a nuanced one. They tell you they want a relationship, but they need to take it slow.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Okay. I mean, slow in what way? Um, it really depends. Like, are, are you being exclusive while you're taking it slow? What, what do you mean by slow? Is it two months or is it six months? You know, all these elements play, like taking it slow is absolutely fine. But as long as you're not like ridiculous, you know, like, I don't know. Yeah, we're taking it slow for the past year. We've been taking it slow and I can also see other people. Well, you know, that's not okay, but it's okay if you, for instance, you want to wait for intimacy for, you know, until you are in a relationship or you want to build, you know, see, see how things are going. That's completely fine. But yeah, it depends.

• 34:02Sabrina Zohar?

  Hundred percent. I'm the same. I think taking it slow, like I took it slow with Ryan. I was just like, I don't want to be your girlfriend after a month. Like I don't know you versus I've had people write in like, I've been dating someone for a year and a half. They say they still want to take it slow and you're like, no, that person's just wasting your fucking time.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah.

• 34:19Sabrina Zohar?

  All right, so now let's go into how do you spot that someone's wasting your time, right? Like, let's talk about those red flags. And I want to preface, a red flag isn't just an ick. A red flag isn't like, oh, well, they they asked me to a dive bar and like, I want to be taken out to dinner. It's like, that's a preference, okay? Red flags are patterns of behavior that would show us that this is something to look out for. So what comes to mind for you? Obviously, we know, like, being inconsistent. What does that look like, right? Like, what in what ways? Are we talking breadcrumbing, right? Are we talking about like, the hot and cold? Like, what do you see are the glaring red flags that we just oftentimes overlook?

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, first of all, sometimes they're very obvious. Like, they will tell you, you know, I just want to go with the flow, or I don't know what I want. And we still overlook those things, you know, or all my exes were crazy, you know, like, putting all the responsibility on someone else. So these things are quite obvious, but people still overlook them.

• 35:18Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  And then, yeah, like, things like breadcrumbing, you know, that intermittent reinforcement. When you feel yourself going, being like extremely confused and, you know, when you initially start dating someone, there will be an element of uncertainty, right? But if the uncertainty makes you spiral into anxiety, and it's a roller coaster of like, highs and lows, and, you know, that that's not good. That's a sign that this person is like a huge red flag and, you know, is triggering even like traumas from the past or, you know, is not going anywhere.

• 36:01Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, and I'm a big fan of getting curious of like, are they offering clarity, right? Because like, I've had it where it's like, you could overthink and be anxious because of your traumas, but this person is like, I'm here, I'm reassuring you, like, I don't know what else I could possibly do. I don't know you well enough. Versus, like you said, you're questioning everything, you're analyzing their text messages. Like, I always saw, for me, the big red flag was, if I have to talk to everybody else about my relationship, but versus the person I'm with. And that's, there's two different reasons for that. There's the one reason of, I don't want to be too much, I don't want to be too needy, and just projecting my insecurities onto them. Versus...

• 36:36Sabrina Zohar?

  I, they're gonna put me down. They say that I'm moving too fast. Like I have one of my clients, every time she brings the guy up, he says, you know, you're so focused on the destination. We're enjoying the journey and it's like you're deflecting, you're pushing it off so that you don't have to take commitment and you keep essentially gaslighting her of like, you're being too much. You need to just enjoy, relax. Those are all really discrediting dismissive statements that will then be like, then you start to go, well, am I crazy? Shit. Yeah. Am I making this up? Am I being too much? Versus, hey, this is how I feel. And the person's going, yeah, I really like you. I, this is what going slow means to me. Does that work for you? And they're communicative and clear. If you're still then confused and analyzing texts, it's like, then that's just your core beliefs, looking for someone to abandon and leave you.

• 37:17Sabrina Zohar?

  And that's the differentiation for me of turning it inwards to understand ourselves.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. A hundred percent. And like, that ability to just communicate, even if you need space, like just communicate it, you know, whatever is happening or asking for clarity, you know, like they ask for clarity. They set like clear limits of the relationship or clear timelines, you know, if, if something's going wrong or something feels off, they communicate. That's a huge green flag. And if they don't do it, that's a red flag. Also, like a sense of, you know, urgency or emotional urgency when you're dating someone that's unavailable or toxic. And you'll find that, as you were saying before, you'll, you're

• 38:02Speaker 01

  overanalyzing, replaying conversations in your head, you know, like you're talking to your friends, like, what do you think he meant by this text? You know, if it's someone healthy, you won't feel the need to do that. You won't feel the need to ask everybody about your relationship.

• 38:19Sabrina Zohar?

  It's funny, that urgency point is such a great point. I remember dating guys where it was like, everything felt like we had to do it now. And it was like, but why can't we meet in a week? Right? Like, or if they'd be like, well, we have to go out tonight. And you're like, okay, but I'm busy tonight. And then you start to see them be like, whoa, okay. And it's like, that person's not really intentional because it doesn't have to be right this minute, right now. They're going based on the moment, the feeling. And I hear it all the time of like, oh, I canceled my girls' night so I could go on this date. And it's like, you don't need to lose yourself to gain them. Because if you lose yourself in order to keep them, well, then what are you, what are you gaining?

• 38:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's something a lot of anxiously attached people do. They will prioritize the other person. They'll cancel girls' night, you know, they'll they'll like free up their schedule on the weekend just in case he might text and want to hang out. Like I've seen that before. So it's really important to like keep your life, like keep doing things, like force yourself to plan things, even if he might text, because you yourself will have that sense of urgency, like, oh my god, what if I don't go out with him? Maybe he will not ask me out, like, that's a red flag, you know, like, if he doesn't ask you out after that, or he wants you in for two more

• 39:34Speaker 01

  weeks, if you don't go out with him the moment he texts you, I mean, that's a sign, you should run, you shouldn't like stick around.

• 39:42Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, I was her. I used to do that. I'd be like, oh, well, I don't know if he's gonna ask me, so like, I won't make any solid plans, but how about I let you know? And it's like, I was living to be chosen. I wasn't living for my life. Because when you, it's really sexy when someone goes, sorry, can't make it. No, I have plans. And you're like, oh, not too much, obviously, you don't want to have that interfere. But I want to know, what are the, so we went over the body language and the cues of they're interested. What about not? Right? Like, what are some really telltale signs, right? Like, the way that somebody sits or can, you know, the way that they are, like, what are ways that we can start to look at that they physically are not into this?

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So someone, if someone isn't interested in you, they will usually like put barriers between you two. So, you know, they'll position themselves in a way that there's, I don't know, a chair or a sofa between you two. You know, the, if, if they don't have something like that, they'll put like a handbag, or, you know, like, I don't know, the water in front, like, you know, they'll, they'll just unconsciously put barriers. Um, whereas if someone likes you, they will remove any barriers, you know, if there's like a bouquet of flowers, like, they'll move that aside, so they have direct access to you. But when someone doesn't like you, yeah, they'll cross their arms, just like putting barriers is a big signal.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  And then, you know, like eye contact is a big thing when they like you, but also when they don't. So they'll like try to like, you know, not look at you so much. They'll try to step back in a conversation. If you, for instance, take a step forward and they step back, that's a clear sign they're not comfortable with you two being too close to each other. You know, but if they like you, they might take a step forward. Or if you take a step forward, they'll stay in the same position because they're comfortable with being close to each other.

• 41:32Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, yeah, I've seen guys, I've been on dates with the guys before where I could tell they're checking other people out. I can see that they're constantly like fidgety, right? They're constantly, they're moving around a lot of just very, uh huh, you know, because you're like, okay, dude, you want to just like sit? Do you want to just be, are we just having a conversation? They're constantly like, I used to see that all the time of like scanning the room, right? And it's like, obviously we're not talking about if you have autism or you have a reason, right? Like that, they're two different experiences, right? Like if we could just go off that, because I get that all the time of like, well, I'm autistic and I don't make eye contact. It's like, it's a very different experience, right? I think we can, versus someone that you could see they're making eye contact with other people. They're looking around, especially the phone.

• 42:11Sabrina Zohar?

  If someone's phone for me is faced up, unless, listen, the only time I've had that is when they come and say, hey, like I was on a date once and the guy was like, I technically am done with work at six and it's five thirty. He was like, so I have to keep my phone here and I could see he was a traitor. So I could see the, it's not hard to see that, like he was doing his trades. And then at six o'clock, he was like, okay, I'm done. Fine, great. Like, thank you for prefacing. But I always do for me, I always put phone down, right? Phone face down, aside or in my bag. The only time I opened it is when I go to the bathroom or when they go to the bathroom. Unless, again, I said, hey, by the way, I'm prefacing, like my mom is staying with me. I need to check my phone just to make sure she's okay. There is a way to communicate, but I've had guys that mid talking, they're just picking up their phone and go, oh, yeah.

• 42:53Sabrina Zohar?

  And you're like, hi, I'm in the middle of a fucking, I'm in the middle of a sentence.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I mean, that's just like, you know, rude and impolite as well.

• 43:03Sabrina Zohar?

  Hundred percent. And then kind of the last thing I really wanted to go into, because like, I think we understand that like. There's confirmation bias, right? Like that we see what we want to see. I understand that there is sunk cost fallacy, right? Well, I've invested this much time and ever. I've already tried this long. Let me keep going. So I think we understand why do we ignore the red flags, right? Like even the highlight reel. I have the halo effect of like, well, they're really sweet to their waiters, which means they must be an amazing person. And you start to overconflate.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  And also, just wanted to add something here. You know, our brain, when we fall in love, like it love literally shuts down the neural pathway that's responsible for like negative emotions, like fear or social judgment. So your brain makes you not see like their red flags or their faults. And it's just like, you know, evolution's way of mating us mate. But when you love someone, you can't, you literally can't see their red flags because of our neurochemistry, you know?

• 44:14Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, 100%. So what do you do in that case? How do you break those unhealthy loops? When it's a chemical brain, literal, like biological aspect?

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Well, it is hard because, you know, what happens with love, like from a biochemical perspective, it's very similar to addiction. You know, some of the chemical processes that go on. But in a way, like it's hard. But you know, just bringing yourself back to the present moment, you know, looking around you, grounding yourself back to reality and connecting, instead of connecting to your emotions, connecting to logic and acting out of logic. Understanding like, I can feel love for this person. It's okay. I can feel attraction and chemistry and I can crave them. It doesn't mean I need to act on it, you know? Because that's what people think, like I crave it, then I need to go for it.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  It's like, no, you can love someone and still not pursue it. And no, it's not good for you and change your focus. You know, do something else, go for someone else. So, you know, it's sometimes you can't stop your emotions and that's okay. You know, the feelings will be there, but you don't have to follow through with the feelings.

• 45:26Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh yeah, that's my favorite, holding two conflicting thoughts. Like, I could miss you, but that doesn't mean I have to reach out to you. I'm allowed. I could think that you're an amazing person and also no, I've had that on dates. And I think that's something that I really try to implement or try to teach, really, is you can have an amazing date. You could spend 15 hours with someone. That doesn't mean that they want a relationship with you. And I could tell somebody, yes, I'm intentional in a relationship and I want this. That doesn't mean I want it with you. And I think that's part of it is we hear, they want a relationship, they're successful and they're great. Okay, then this must be the one. And I think for me, somewhere like that I start to look at is, one, what are the depths of the conversation that you guys are having, right? Like, do you feel, one thing that I really look out for that I think is a huge red flag when we

• 46:07Sabrina Zohar?

  talk about the inconsistency is, when I'm with them, oh my God, everything's amazing. It's cloud nine. I am just euphoric. And then when I'm not, I'm a mess. I'm on the floor crying. I'm hyperventilating. And it's like, what I hear there, to your point, is that addiction. When I'm with them, it's the high, look, they're choosing me, they're here. And then when they're not, insert my core beliefs and all of my stuff and all of my shit and the narrative that I've created myself. And for me, what I think is really important there is a couple of things. One, we got to rebalance. But what I like to look at is, how reciprocal and fair is this aspect, right? I hear this all the time of like, well, I text them every day and I feel like I'm always the one that has to put the effort. It's like, then pull back, right? Pull back a little bit.

• 46:50Sabrina Zohar?

  Pull the reins. This isn't a game. It's not of like, okay, I'm gonna wait seven hours to text back because they waited seven. No. What it is, is if every single day, I'm the first one to say good morning, I'm always asking for plans, maybe, maybe it's one of two things. Maybe you're right that they're not that into you and it's not reciprocal. Or maybe you're not giving them the opportunity to also step closer.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  You're not giving them the space to come next to you. So imagine, you know, this is two people. If you're making all the steps towards them, you don't allow them steps to come towards you. But if you only walk half the way, then can, then you allow them the opportunity to come to you as well. So yeah, definitely. This isn't game playing. It's just like, you know, people end up feeling like they being taken advantage of. Or they're doing too much and it's like, yeah, because you are doing too much and you need to take a step back. And you're doing too much out of anxiety, out of people pleasing, you know, and like it's it's not authentic anyways. And it's not coming from a healthy place. See, you need to step back a little bit and just let them come to you.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  And this isn't only in romantic relationships, it's also in friendships or any other aspects of life. You know, if you feel like you're doing too much, you're feeling like the other person is taking advantage of you, then take a step back. Let them come to you as well.

• 48:08Sabrina Zohar?

  Hundred percent. I think friendships, it, a lot of the stuff we talk about does translate, even family, right? If I'm, I have like, I have family members that like, if you don't contact them, you never hear from them. And after a while, I would get super anxious of, oh, are they mad at me? And after a while, you're like, but they're not showing up for me either. So you know what? I'm gonna remove myself and if they contact me, I'm here. And if they don't, then what that just shows me is I don't need to fill in the blanks and the narratives of what that means. What I could say is, then this just doesn't align with the way that I want to show up in a relationship. Because I want, I kind of wanted to like, even end it here with this of like, the big difference, what we're trying to explain is like, if you really want to understand what is it anxiety? Or is it my intuition, right? Am I, am I over conflating things? Start to look at what's happening in my body and what is the story I'm telling myself?

• 48:53Sabrina Zohar?

  Am I telling myself that because, well, they text me yesterday, not today, that means they don't like me? Okay, so that's the story I've convinced myself of. What do I feel it in my body? I can't sit still, I couldn't sleep, I can't eat. Okay, so you're dysregulated. Right, so then we have to look and say, so that doesn't sound like it's your intuition. That sounds like it's your anxiety because it comes with a narrative and it comes with body sensations. Versus my intuition is usually pretty, my gut feels this and I'm gonna go with it, right? I don't sit here and start to say, well, my gut feels that they didn't text me because they don't like me. Okay, well, you know what? I'll get curious, right? I'll just ask them if I talk to them again, and if I don't, that's okay, then maybe they're just telling me that this isn't a match. And I think there's a lot of power and strength of not playing detective. This isn't about what you need to look out for when you're on date.

• 49:38Sabrina Zohar?

  It's like, no, what this is about is how can you stay in your body and stay in your power while also addressing if this works for you?

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 49:47Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, Francesca, thank you for sitting with us. Is there anything? I wasn't sure if there was anything that we didn't talk about or cover as far as like the everything? If there is anything you wanted to leave the audience with, and if not, that's okay too.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think we covered everything. Yeah, it was an amazing chat and thank you so much for having me. It's been great.

• 50:07Sabrina Zohar?

  And where can people find you or work with you? Or what are you up to these days?

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, so you can find me at the handle Francesca Psychology anywhere, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. I have my podcast, which is called The Francesca Psychology Podcast. So very simple, just remember Francesca Psychology. That's all you need to know.

• 50:27Sabrina Zohar?

  Perfect, and we'll link everything. And I'm so, just thank you so much for being here and thank you for sharing your wisdom with our audience. And I'm just really grateful that you were part of it.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me. It was great.