Niecy Nash: The Power of Loving Yourself Out Loud

The two-time Emmy award-winning actress and star of Hulu’s all women divorce drama All’s Fair - Ms. Niecy Nash-Betts - joins the Podcast. Nicknamed “The Range” in Hollywood for her extraordinary ability to transcend both comedic and dramatic roles on television and in the movies. Oprah talks to Niecy about how from a young age she manifested her acting career. The two discuss Niecy’s marriage to her ‘’hersband,” Jessica Betts, after being married twice in the past to men. Niecy shares why she didn’t feel the need “to come out” and the mistakes she’s made as a mother to her three adult children. Niecy also takes questions from listeners about her fan-favorite show, All’s Fair on Hulu - now in its second season - and reveals what it’s like working on and off the set with her powerhouse co-stars Kim Kardashian, Sarah Paulson, Naomi Watts, Teyana Taylor and the legendary Glenn Close. And caregivers take note, Niecy talks about the challenges she faces providing care for her elderly father. 00:00:00 - Welcome Niecy Nash 00:02:30 - Niecy knew she was a performer 00:03:15 - Her nickname “The Range” 00:08:00 - Niecy’s Emmy speech 00:10:40 - Has fame changed her? 00:12:45 - Niecy’s greatest luxury 00:14:30 - All’s Fair role 00:19:00 - Favorite outfit from All’s Fair 00:20:20 - Fatal Attraction with Glenn Close 00:22:20 - Niecy’s wig obsession 00:24:00 - Niecy on motherhood 00:26:30 - 6 year wedding anniversary 00:28:30 - On wife Jessica Betts 00:33:45 - Going public on their relationship 00:41:30 - Caretaking her father 00:46:00 - Niecy’s ideal role 00:48:40 - What she would not share 00:49:24 - Rapid fire questions Follow Oprah Winfrey on Social: https://www.instagram.com/oprahpodcast/ https://www.facebook.com/oprahpodcast/ https://www.instagram.com/oprah/?hl=en https://www.facebook.com/oprahwinfrey/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Oprah Winfrey?

  There actually is only one like you. Nisi Nash Betts. You end up with an Emmy. You end up with a hit series. How has fame impacted the way you see yourself?

• 0:11Speaker 01

  You know, the critics dragged us.

• 0:12Oprah Winfrey?

  Dragged you? Like, zero on Rotten Tomatoes, but the people say, uh-uh.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Oprah, that's what my mama said. My mama said, y'all couldn't get one tomato?

• 0:21Oprah Winfrey?

  You and your wife, Jessica, celebrating your six-year wedding anniversary. Nobody was more shocked than I was. What happened?

• 0:30Speaker 01

  I kissed her, and my tongue came out a little bit, Oprah.

• 0:35Oprah Winfrey?

  What's the greatest luxury you have afforded yourself?

• 0:38Speaker 01

  The greatest luxury? That's a good question. I get wigs delivered to my house every week. I'm sick. Lord, help me. I'm sick.

• 0:45Oprah Winfrey?

  You have a wig addiction.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  I'm expensive.

• 0:52Oprah Winfrey?

  Hey, thanks for hanging out with us here on the Oprah Podcast. It's poppin' in the tea house today, because my guest is the one. When I say one and only, there actually is only one like you. Nisi Nash Betts. So we're gonna talk about your show, of course. But first, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about today is how you, Miss Nisi Nash Betts, have had one of the most evolutionary lives and careers that we've seen. How did you manifest this dream for yourself?

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Well, when I was five years old, I saw the most gorgeous black woman I had ever seen. She had on a long red dress, and her eyelashes looked like butterflies. And I said, grandmama, who is that? My grandmama said, baby, that's Lola Filana. And I felt like, in that moment, my destiny was stamped on the canvas of my imagination. That's what the Most High, the universe, put in me. And I look at my grandmother, and I said, I want to be black, fabulous, and on TV.

• 1:57Oprah Winfrey?

  At five years old?

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Yes. And I knew then where I was going. I didn't know how long it was gonna take. But you say, how did I manifest it? Because I believed what the Most High deposited in me. I didn't try to talk myself out of it. And I feel like sometimes your first instinct, or that first voice that you hear, is the closest we will ever get to God.

• 2:19Oprah Winfrey?

  Oh, yes, I've heard that voice, too.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21Oprah Winfrey?

  And I love that phrase, "Destiny was stamped on the canvas of my imagination."

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Yes, ma'am.

• 2:26Oprah Winfrey?

  But you did not have those words at the time. You just felt what?

• 2:30Speaker 01

  I felt like that's who I'm meant to be. So I would only wear dresses. And back then, when I was little, you were a lady if you had a little scarf tied here on your neck. So I would have the scarf, the dress. And the only sunglasses I had had Mickey Mouse on the top. But I said, it'll have to do.

• 2:50Oprah Winfrey?

  I'm gonna make do with Mickey.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  I put my, and I would sit on the porch, and I would just be a lady. And then if you didn't call me Lola, I don't know who you're talking to, because you gotta call me Lola if you want me to do anything.

• 3:02Oprah Winfrey?

  Really?

• 3:02Speaker 01

  And my first stage was to stack two phone books together, turn around in a circle, and finish with a flourish.

• 3:10Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I was like, this, guys, get ready. This is, this is what's happening.

• 3:15Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow. It's interesting that your Instagram handle is NisiTheRangeNash. Is that because your range is so great?

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Well, I found out that my contemporaries were calling me that behind my back.

• 3:29Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  I found out through somebody else. They're like, oh, yeah, you know they call you The Range. Well, I, let me, where's my Instagram? Let me re, let me rejigger a few things, because I do feel like I am such a blessed girl that I can do heart-wrenching drama. And also, in this same vessel, I can make you laugh like nobody's business. And that's very, very rare in this business, that you can stand flat-footed and say, oh, yeah, I can do both. And I love that, because it means my peers can trust me, no matter what the work is.

• 4:05Oprah Winfrey?

  No matter what it is. And does it matter to you whether you're doing one or the other? Whether you're doing humor, whether you're doing drama, whether you're doing?

• 4:12Speaker 01

  At this point in my life, not at all. I love work. I'm expensive.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  So I, I, I want things. So whatever the work is, as long as I can lean into it and identify with it, I don't care if it's comedy or drama. But for a very long time, no one would see me in a dramatic, for a dramatic role, because oftentimes, people want to leave you where they meet you.

• 4:39Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  And they met me as a comedian.

• 4:41Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  And were like, oh, no, we know what you do.

• 4:43Oprah Winfrey?

  They want to leave you where they meet you, and they also want to keep you in that box?

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:47Oprah Winfrey?

  Absolutely.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  And I was like, absolutely not.

• 4:49Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, so you first hit it big, being hilarious on Reno 911. And then we watched you transition to dramatic roles. And, I mean, was it Ava who first saw you as a serious character?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  You know what it was? I did a show for HBO called Getting On.

• 5:03Oprah Winfrey?

  Uh-huh.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Ava saw Getting On and said, that's my Richie Jean.

• 5:07Oprah Winfrey?

  Ah.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Or Selma.

• 5:09Oprah Winfrey?

  For Selma.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Once Ava called me and put me in Selma, then put me in When They See Us. People were like, where did this lady come from? I'm like, I've been here all along. Telling you guys, I know I can do it. And I literally, this is a true story, called a whole team meeting. And I got down to my agency, and they were like, well, why are we here? I said, because I want to reintroduce myself to you, because I think you think you know me. But I done changed. You know what I mean? I can do other stuff. You know what I mean? Like, I support tricks in this bag. And I said, if you don't see me the way I see myself, we have to part ways. No hard feelings, but, and so a few people left on the team, and other people got added on the team.

• 5:52Oprah Winfrey?

  They actually left on the team?

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:55Oprah Winfrey?

  Or you asked them to leave?

• 5:56Speaker 01

  I just said, do you see what I see? Hmm?

• 5:59Oprah Winfrey?

  Hmm?

• 6:00Speaker 01

  And when they did, and I said, well, thank you for coming. And so, thank you for your time.

• 6:04Oprah Winfrey?

  So it was Ava DuVernay's Selma, then Ava DuVernay's When They See Us. Then it was Ryan Murphy's Monster, The Jeffrey Dahmer Story.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:12Oprah Winfrey?

  I had to fast forward, because I told you, I don't think I was gonna be able to watch the Monster Jeffrey Dahmer series. So I fast forward to your parts. And even that was pretty wrenching.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Hello, this is Glenda Cleveland. Can you send an officer to the Oxford apartment?

• 6:27Speaker 02

  What's the emergency?

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Well, I, I, I, I think it's a fight going on next door. And somebody, somebody is either being hurt or killed.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Can you go make sure?

• 6:38Speaker 01

  What? What? No, I can't. I said, I think somebody is being killed. I ain't going next door.

• 6:45Oprah Winfrey?

  And you said that you would come home wrung out after that.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:49Oprah Winfrey?

  Is it because of the material? How did that material affect you?

• 6:54Speaker 01

  Well, it was just interesting because of that, of the dynamic on set. You know, I was working with an actor who stays in character.

• 7:02Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  So you, you can't really lean in, because we didn't have any sort of a relationship on set.

• 7:11Oprah Winfrey?

  Ah, I see.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  You see what I mean? And so it was very much like, you say, good morning, and you get?

• 7:17Oprah Winfrey?

  Jeffrey Dahmer.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Because he gonna stay in, right.

• 7:19Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  He gonna stay in it. You know, so it just used to, it was exhausting in, in some ways. But also, too, because I was filming Reno 911, the movie, The Hunt for QAnon, at the same time. So I would leave from one set with my glasses on and my curlers, and then go over there and put my baby hair and my big booty on.

• 7:40Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  So I was pulling double duty. And I'm glad it was that way, because that Reno took a little bit of that weight off

• 7:47Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  of the other one.

• 7:49Oprah Winfrey?

  You were doing both at the same time?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:51Oprah Winfrey?

  Oh, girl, you're good.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  I was doing both at the same time.

• 7:55Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  And I would still go home and save time to skinny dip and drink champagne.

• 8:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  You know, whatever.

• 8:02Oprah Winfrey?

  That Emmy was made for you that year.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 8:06Oprah Winfrey?

  And your Emmy speech was one for the ages. Let's watch it.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  I'm a winner, baby.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Thank you to the Most High for this divine moment. Thank you, Ryan Murphy, for seeing me. Evan Peters, I love you. Netflix, every single person who voted for me, thank you. And my better half, who picked me up when I was gutted from this work, thank you. And you know who I want to thank? I want to thank me.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  For believing in me and doing what they said I could not do. And I want to say to myself in front of all you beautiful people, "Go on, girl, with your bad self." You did that. Finally, I accept this award on behalf of every black and brown woman who has gone unheard yet overpoliced, like Glenda Cleveland, like Sandra Bland, like Breonna Taylor. As an artist, my job is to speak truth to power. And baby, I'mma do it to the day I die. Mama, I won!

• 9:16Oprah Winfrey?

  What a moment, what a moment, what a moment. I often say we're born to meet the rising of our lives. Did you see that as a rising moment? Or you had risen to a new level?

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  I would probably say, in my heart and mind,

• 9:38Speaker 01

  I was already there. And the things just had to catch up.

• 9:43Oprah Winfrey?

  Come on with it, come on with it. And what was it like to be able to look out there and see your mother there?

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Amazing, you know? Because a lot of people know my mom because she shows up to everything. But when I first said I wanted to be an actor, my mother, she was very honest with me. She said, "That's not something I can help you do." So the best bet is to be a nurse. You're kind-hearted. And I said, "Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa." I was like, "So now I gotta clean bedpans? Because you don't believe what the most high told me to do, girl?" But it wasn't that, it was just that she was like...

• 10:16Oprah Winfrey?

  Lola ain't cleaning no bedpans.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  It was just that she was like, "I don't know how to help you." You know what I mean? Like, we don't have anybody in our family. It's not like you can call, you know what I mean?

• 10:27Oprah Winfrey?

  No connections, don't know what to do, where to go, who to see.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  I don't know how to help you. And I said, "Just love me." I mean, that's it.

• 10:38Oprah Winfrey?

  And that's what you did. So when you started out just trying to get whatever roles you could, okay, you end up with an Emmy, you end up with a hit series. How has fame impacted the way you see yourself?

• 10:53Speaker 01

  It supports the way I see myself. You know what I mean?

• 10:57Oprah Winfrey?

  Oh, interesting.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  I think it just supports the way I see myself.

• 11:00Oprah Winfrey?

  Because you already saw yourself as successful.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:04Oprah Winfrey?

  Has been since you were five years old, Ms. Lola.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Yes, I was on the Hollywood Walk of Fame about seven or eight. And I see Ed Asner, I don't know his name, but I know he's on TV. And I go over and I was like, "Sir, I know you're on TV, but I'm gonna be on TV too. And my name is gonna be right here on this ground." And he was like, "Yeah, kids, scram." And when he walked away, I said, "Remember my name!" And my full-circle moment was reaching out to Ed Asner. And he said, "I'm so grateful you didn't let a crotchety old man step on your dream." And he said, "Of course, I know your name." And he hand-drew a little star and he wrote my name through it. And his team said, "Unfortunately, you know, he's having some challenges.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  He won't be able to come." The day before my ceremony, they called and said, "He will be there." I couldn't even look this way. Because if I looked at him, I would've cried my fake eyelashes off. Yeah.

• 12:03Oprah Winfrey?

  What a story.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  A whole moment, I was like, "Are you kidding me right now?" Sat right front row at my star ceremony. And that's the last place I saw him. And the first and the last place I ever saw him was on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

• 12:18Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Came to my after-party and everything.

• 12:21Oprah Winfrey?

  Mr. Grant, I used to watch the Mary Tyler Moore Show every Saturday night. Wanted to be like Mary Tyler Moore. And she is the reason why I ended up owning my own studio, because of the little MTM at the end and the little cat goes through. And it said, "Mary Tyler Moore Productions."

• 12:38Speaker 01

  And you said, "I'mma get that."

• 12:39Oprah Winfrey?

  I'mma get that.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 12:41Oprah Winfrey?

  Come on. I saw you driving down the street. And you were driving a very pretty car.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 12:48Oprah Winfrey?

  So I wanted to know, what's the greatest luxury you have afforded yourself when you knew that all your bills were paid? And you weren't gonna be owing anybody anything? What's the greatest luxury?

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Ooh, the greatest luxury, that's a good question.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  First of all, I love my car. But I think my greatest luxury is the... When you invest in things that save you time. And so for me, that's like going through the airport and using a private way to go through. And, you know, travel, as much travel...

• 13:24Oprah Winfrey?

  Making yourself as comfortable as possible.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:27Oprah Winfrey?

  That's your greatest luxury?

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so.

• 13:30Oprah Winfrey?

  Was there a thing that you just wanted to buy? That you thought, "If I can just get that thing"?

• 13:35Speaker 01

  I don't think that I thought that.

• 13:37Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, so not even that car I saw you driving? That wasn't like a dream, that's a beautiful car?

• 13:42Speaker 01

  It wasn't a dream, it was a happy accident.

• 13:44Oprah Winfrey?

  Really?

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. My makeup artist...

• 13:48Oprah Winfrey?

  And what color is that car?

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Rose gold.

• 13:50Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  And I love that car so much, but she was like, "Hey, you're starting a new..." Because every time I start a new job, I buy myself a present. I buy myself a "Go on, girl, you did that" present. You know what I mean? "Go on, girl, you booked that." "Go buy yourself something." And so she called me and said, "Oh, I know what you should get for your new, I mean, your present to yourself." I said, "What?" She was like, "Go get a Rolls Royce." And I was like, "Hmm, okay." And I went by there, but I saw something else. And when I saw that something else, I was like, "That has my name all over it."

• 14:25Oprah Winfrey?

  And it's gonna be in rose gold?

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Ah, yes, I love it so much.

• 14:29Oprah Winfrey?

  So let's talk about All's Fair for a moment.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:31Oprah Winfrey?

  She's starring as the fierce and fabulous Emerald Green, a private investigator for an all-female divorce firm on Hulu's hit show All's Fair. Season two premieres November 4. She stars alongside this wild list of famous actresses, Sarah Paulson, Naomi Watts, Deanna Taylor, the legendary Glenn Close, and Kim Kardashian. It looks like y'all are having a Hulu hoot of a time.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  You know what, I love the ladies. And what I love the most, because here's... Most people who have worked with, you know, a gaggle of broads know that the first season is like summer camp. And then after that, it kind of starts...

• 15:10Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, and also the demands, the demands come up, right?

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I would have to say that I am obsessed with these gals because everybody has their own thing going, you know? But we are so supportive of what each other is doing. Like, "Oh, how was your baby's thing?" You know, when we come back to work. Or, "Did you get to go on date night? What happened?" Like, we just, we genuinely like each other. So it's not just like work friends. It's like, I know I will know these women until they throw dirt on my face.

• 15:41Oprah Winfrey?

  Really?

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Really.

• 15:42Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, so the camaraderie is great.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  It's real.

• 15:45Oprah Winfrey?

  It's real.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  It's real.

• 15:46Oprah Winfrey?

  It's real. And I know you would say it if it wasn't.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:49Oprah Winfrey?

  Oh, yeah. So your character, Emerald Green, is such a badass.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Yes, thank you, sweet baby Jesus.

• 15:56Oprah Winfrey?

  And Nisi Nash-Betts is also such a badass. So how much of it is acting and how much of it is you?

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Well, I always try to find the place where the character and I intersect. What do we have in common is my first thing. Because then I know I could take that and layer it into the performance. So where Emerald and I are different is that she takes a lot more than I probably would in real life, you know? And I was raised by a woman who said, "People shouldn't know you cuss them out until they got home."

• 16:33Speaker 01

  And so they got home and said, "I think that girl just cussed me out." Yeah, Emerald doesn't say a lot of things that Nisi would say. She's a little, you know, more subdued than I am.

• 16:46Oprah Winfrey?

  So Nisi's actually more badass than Emerald?

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 16:48Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, so one of the things that is just so spectacular is the clothes.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:55Oprah Winfrey?

  The clothes! So is everybody fighting to get their clothes? The designers to get their clothes on the show?

• 17:01Speaker 01

  No, it's more clothes around there than you can shake a stick at.

• 17:04Oprah Winfrey?

  Do you all decide yourselves what your characters are gonna wear?

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Well, they bring you a lot of things.

• 17:10Oprah Winfrey?

  And you get to pick?

• 17:11Speaker 01

  And you try on lots of things. That's a whole day of trying on, you know? So you just have to try on lots of... And we're just, you know, ladies in cute clothes saying mean things. And that's the show, everybody relax. Because you know, the critics dragged us.

• 17:27Oprah Winfrey?

  I know, the critics dragged you. I mean, like zero...

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Down to the bottom.

• 17:32Oprah Winfrey?

  Like, zero on Rotten Tomatoes. But the people say, "Uh-uh."

• 17:36Speaker 01

  Oh, but that's what my mama said. My mama said, "Y'all couldn't get one tomato?" I said, "Girl, they didn't get one tomato."

• 17:45Speaker 01

  But the public said, "More, we get it," you know what I mean? We are not over here trying to be law and order, okay? That's not what this show is. We're not even trying to be Madlock, you know what I mean? Everybody relax. You know what I mean?

• 18:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, the campiness is a part of it. That is it.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  That's the show.

• 18:05Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, so people love the clothes, they love the wigs. Do you all get to keep, do you get to keep anything? Can you say, "Well, I really like that Hermes bag"?

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Well, first season, they didn't let us keep anything because they said, "Hey, we don't know if we're gonna come back, but if we do, we might want to put these slacks with a different thing." You know, so we didn't. Season two happened and we were all like...

• 18:29Speaker 01

  What does he say? Anything come for me? Can I?

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Can I take some of this home?

• 18:36Oprah Winfrey?

  That's a line from The Color Purple.

• 18:39Oprah Winfrey?

  Anything come for me?

• 18:40Speaker 01

  And he said, no. So we're still waiting.

• 18:45Oprah Winfrey?

  You're still waiting?

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:46Oprah Winfrey?

  Well, our listeners heard you were coming on this podcast and we're so excited and have questions for you. Seth is joining us from Mississippi.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Hey Seth.

• 18:54Oprah Winfrey?

  Hi Seth.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  Hi, how are you guys? Such a big fan, Oprah and Nisi, love y'all.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 19:00Oprah Winfrey?

  Thank you.

• 19:01Speaker 03

  So I have a question for Nisi. Um, Nisi, like you were just talking about, the clothes is what drew me to the show originally. Do you have any favorite outfits particularly that Emerald wore or that any of the other guards wore on the show?

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Oh, favorite outfits? It's so hard to choose because, you know, as soon as you find something that you like, then they bring something else. And then it's something else. And so I like anything that Emerald had to wear with a hat or anything she wore with feathers. Cause why not?

• 19:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:31Oprah Winfrey?

  Why not? What do you love about the show? You said you were attracted to the show because of the clothes.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And I've always loved like legal shows. And then honestly, what drew me to it was I'm a huge Kardashian fan. So when I found out Kim Kardashian was gonna be on it, I was like, oh, that caught my attention. And then the star study cast, like you said, Glenn Close and then Dee Nisi Nash, I was like, oh, gotta tune in.

• 19:53Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, it's Dee Nisi Nash.

• 19:57Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Fun fact, I had never seen an episode of The Kardashians before I met Kim.

• 20:04Oprah Winfrey?

  Really?

• 20:05Speaker 01

  Never. I'd never seen it. You know what I mean? And um, Kris Jenner was walking by when I admitted that. I said, I've never seen The Kardashians. And she turned over and said, thank God.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Girl, you might wouldn't have showed up.

• 20:21Oprah Winfrey?

  Didn't she have a party at her house for all of you all?

• 20:23Speaker 01

  She, yeah, it was for Glenn really because Kim had never seen Fatal Attraction.

• 20:28Oprah Winfrey?

  Oh, that's right.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  So we brought everybody together in our pajamas and we watched Fatal Attraction with Glenn Close. That was one of my greatest memories. I mean, just to watch her watch herself, you know what I mean? And she was so sexy and beautiful. She was down there eating her popcorn like, that's me.

• 20:49Oprah Winfrey?

  Thank you Seth.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Thank you Seth.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  Thank you Oprah Nisi. Thank you guys so much.

• 20:53Oprah Winfrey?

  Hadia is joining us from Atlanta. What's your question for Nisi?

• 20:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, I love you too, of course. Um, but my question is mainly around, so we know Emerald is a gem. She's vibrant, she's fabulous, all these great things. But she's also very real. And I want to know, how do you tap into that character? Because she goes through some real stuff, you know?

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, you know, I, first of all, she's a mother of three. I'm a mother of three.

• 21:18Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  So when I'm in scenes with my boys, I, my TV children.

• 21:23Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  I talk to them in the same vernacular I use with my own. You know what I mean? So I think that helps it really feel grounded. Because we all know that black mother that'll tell you, I will slap the black off of you, right off your face. You know what I mean? And stuff like that. And you're like, what? But we know because we know those ladies with the grandmothers and the aunties in our lives. So I just try to lean into who I really am as a mother with that character.

• 21:49Oprah Winfrey?

  What do you love about the show, Hadia?

• 21:50Speaker 04

  I love what you all are talking about. I love that it is not super serious. Everybody looks fabulous. I'm here for a good time, not a long time. And that's all I want to see. I'm not trying to figure out, you know, to solve a crazy case or anything like that. I like vibrant drama.

• 22:05Oprah Winfrey?

  You like the camp.

• 22:07Speaker 04

  I love the camp.

• 22:08Oprah Winfrey?

  You like Sarah Paulson getting up on the table and putting her fingers in these.

• 22:12Speaker 04

  I love Sarah Paulson getting on the table.

• 22:13Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, you like that. Thank you. I see you got your little pink shoes on the side too, honey.

• 22:18Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 22:20Oprah Winfrey?

  Hello.

• 22:20Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 22:22Oprah Winfrey?

  One of the things people love so much about it are the wigs too. And you have your own collection of, you could compete with Dolly, I think.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  Maybe I should be a little bit more ashamed of this, but I'm not. I, there's something that happens in season two. And the show called me and said, hey, can we borrow a few wigs for this scene?

• 22:44Oprah Winfrey?

  Your wig?

• 22:45Speaker 01

  And I said, how many do you need? And they said, 150. I said, okay.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  And still had room to grow. I'm, it's a sickness. It's a sickness.

• 22:58Oprah Winfrey?

  What?

• 22:59Speaker 01

  I get wigs delivered to my house every week. I'm sick. Lord, help me. I'm sick.

• 23:03Oprah Winfrey?

  You have a wig addiction.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  I'm sick.

• 23:05Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  I'm sick.

• 23:07Oprah Winfrey?

  So you, you must have a room for them?

• 23:10Speaker 01

  I do.

• 23:11Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, you have a room for them.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Wait a minute.

• 23:15Oprah Winfrey?

  Not a closet for them, a room for them.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  And this is not, and I don't, you know what I mean? I have prayed for everybody and called everybody when California, you know, we had those bad fires.

• 23:24Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  But we were on alert and so they said, pack just in case. So I had two trunks full to the top and my purse over my shoulder. And I put the dog on the leash and, and my spouse was like, okay, well, what is this stuff you grabbed? Cause it was like a grab and go. And I said, my wigs and my two Emmys, let's go. And a picture of my grandmamas in my purse, let's go. She was like, what? I was like, I, if, you know what I mean? I still gotta go to work, come on. So that's it, I've admitted it.

• 23:56Oprah Winfrey?

  Oh, you, you were just mentioning your own children a moment ago. You played all kinds of mothers on screen, single mothers, working mothers, alcoholic mothers, the mom in the FBI. And so what has, what has motherhood off screen really taught you?

• 24:13Speaker 01

  To be honest?

• 24:13Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes, with Danielle, Dominique and the lovely Dia, yeah.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  Motherhood has taught me that no matter what you do in life, your children are gonna need therapy. Because of you. They're gonna need therapy because of you. Just save the money and put it to the side right now. New mothers, put your money to the side because I don't care what you do. Nurse the baby, stay up with the baby, give the baby, put them in school, do this, do that. Eventually they gonna come back and look you in your face and tell you something wasn't right. And they need to go lay down on somebody's couch. And I just accepted it. So I keep the little money to the side.

• 24:46Oprah Winfrey?

  My goodness, really?

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Cause I know they gonna go.

• 24:48Oprah Winfrey?

  Really?

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Therapy on speed dial. What, what kind of therapist would you like, Dia? What do you want to deal with?

• 24:52Oprah Winfrey?

  And you, you, you carry no guilt about it?

• 24:54Speaker 01

  No.

• 24:55Oprah Winfrey?

  No.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no. Because what, what is, guilt is a useless emotion.

• 24:58Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes, it is, it is.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  But I had that first baby when I was, what, 21, 22?

• 25:02Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  I didn't know what I was doing. I picked up the baby, had the baby right here and put my beeper on, on my hip and was like walking toward the door. And I said, they gonna let me leave with this thing? They don't even know me. These people don't know me, they don't. They let me leave with this baby? I didn't know what I was doing.

• 25:20Oprah Winfrey?

  So you admit to yourself and to them, you didn't know what you were doing. So you made some mistakes and so now they need therapy.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was marginal. You know, at best. I, I, and, and that's the truth.

• 25:33Oprah Winfrey?

  Why do you say that? Why do you say that?

• 25:35Speaker 01

  I just think I could have done things, well, here's what happened. When you compare mothering today.

• 25:44Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  To mothering 30 years ago, 40 years ago.

• 25:48Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  That was a different kind of mother.

• 25:50Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  And then today they're like, oh, you have to be gentle parent. I said, gentle?

• 25:54Oprah Winfrey?

  Gentle parenting.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  I skipped that part. I was, that wasn't me. I didn't, I, no one taught me that. No one told me that. Like that's the, the new way.

• 26:02Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  And so when I look.

• 26:03Oprah Winfrey?

  But you're negotiating to put something down.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Just do what I say.

• 26:06Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Right? That's the mother I am. Do what I tell you to do.

• 26:10Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Huh? And that's it and that's all. And mine is gonna be the last word.

• 26:14Oprah Winfrey?

  But what's your relationship with your children like?

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Amazing. It's amazing now because I mother them in a different way. And I, I date them separately.

• 26:24Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 26:26Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  So each child can have their own one-on-one.

• 26:30Oprah Winfrey?

  Relationship, one-on-one time.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:32Oprah Winfrey?

  So a few weeks ago, I see this video pop up on my feed, you and your wife Jessica celebrating your six-year wedding anniversary. Let's watch the surprise Jessica had for you.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Guys, this is what happened on my six-year wedding anniversary. What? What is happening? What is happening? You call JB my wife. I lovingly call her my herspin.

• 27:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Your herspin?

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:02Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, then I shall call her your herspin. Okay. So I, this is the thing. I think that you and Jessica are so wonderful together, really.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 27:12Oprah Winfrey?

  And I've been in private with you all, in public, and it, it's the same. And there's nobody who can deny that that is real. But I can also say, nobody was more shocked than I was.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Well, you know, you were one of the first people I called though.

• 27:29Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, I know. But nobody was more shocked than I was. And this, and let me tell the people why. Because Nisi was at my house in 2019.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Oh, look.

• 27:39Oprah Winfrey?

  A year before. Yeah. Us scooters and hiking and having an all-girls night.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:47Oprah Winfrey?

  Ava behind us.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, I'm waving like she right there, girl.

• 27:52Oprah Winfrey?

  And you talking about, you, you had written a book. And in that book, It's Hard to Fight Naked.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  It is.

• 27:58Oprah Winfrey?

  And How to Keep a Man Happy. There's some chapters on that with very explicit details on how to make him happy every morning. And you were telling me, I remember you telling me at the dinner table about it. And you were telling me at the time, how you just love men. You said, I love boys.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  I, I said, I love them so much.

• 28:17Oprah Winfrey?

  You said you love them so much. So that is why nobody was more shocked than I was. What happened?

• 28:24Speaker 01

  I was more shocked than you were.

• 28:26Oprah Winfrey?

  You, okay, okay. But you were telling me all these things about how to keep your man happy. What happened?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Well, um.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  You know what, I love boys and until I didn't, I guess. But it's not even that I don't love them anymore. I, Jessica, I am attracted to because she is the most beautiful soul I have ever met in my life.

• 28:51Oprah Winfrey?

  So you all were friends before?

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, friends for like four and a half years. I was married, she was in a relationship. We never crossed any line, we never made the eyes. You know how somebody hug you and put their hand at the small of your back? There was none of that. No, because if it was, I know her enough to know she would have never married me. Because she would have thought, you know.

• 29:11Oprah Winfrey?

  Why would you do that if you were married, right?

• 29:13Speaker 01

  And she never would have married me. Yeah, but she just want, we were hanging out, which was not unusual. In New York, eating crabs, drinking wine, and my stomach got hot. I said, wait a minute, because that only happens when I like boys. Why is my stomach hot? And then I was like, uh-oh, this is.

• 29:33Oprah Winfrey?

  Was it just the two of you?

• 29:35Speaker 01

  We were in a restaurant. And I was like, on to myself, my stomach is hot. I said, girl, get from over there. In my mind, this is a woman and it's my friend. Why is my stomach hot? Like it's hot when I like boys.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  And I said, well.

• 29:52Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, so what does that mean? It's like a, like a sexual, like sexual sensation?

• 29:58Speaker 01

  I'm attracted to you. Yeah, you know what I mean? You forget it.

• 30:00Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  And I didn't, and it scared me.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  It scared me, and so I said, wait a minute, I gotta, let me try to manage what I'm feeling. Maybe I could keep the night going a little longer and see if it'll go away. So I said, I'm going back to my house to watch one of my favorite movies, if you wanna go. And she said, alright, Cora, I'm down. I said, okay.

• 30:28Oprah Winfrey?

  Cora.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, she calls me Cora. And once I got back there and the movie was off, my stomach stayed hot the whole time. Uh-oh.

• 30:36Oprah Winfrey?

  Uh-oh.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  I was like, oh.

• 30:38Oprah Winfrey?

  Had this ever happened to you before?

• 30:40Speaker 01

  With boys.

• 30:41Oprah Winfrey?

  With boys, only with boys?

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Only with boys. You know, and even, I mean, you know, I'm married to a woman, but she is very handsome. I don't know, you know what I mean? But my stomach got hot and I was like, it's official. I really am attracted to this person. And it was no, I had no more tricks left, so I got up and walked her to the door. No more movies to watch, no more nothing, thanks for coming, see you next time. And when I hugged her, I kissed her on the cheek, which was not unusual.

• 31:11Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  You know, like, by your, you know, whatever. But I kissed her and my tongue came out a little bit, Oprah.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  And then when I let her go, she looked at me and said, wanna go lay down? And I've been laying down ever since, girl.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, yeah, that happened, and this happened, and here we are.

• 31:41Oprah Winfrey?

  So from that moment on, when you kissed her and your tongue came out a little.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  It's a little, look like a baby fleck.

• 31:48Oprah Winfrey?

  Like a little, and your tongue, your tongue came out a little bit. You all have been together since then, it just was on.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Well, I ghosted her first, because I really felt like I wanna keep our friendship. And if I mess that up, because I want this person to know me to the dirt. And if I messed it up by doing this thing, I will never forgive myself. Because I always want to know you and be in good standing with you.

• 32:14Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  And I just stopped calling, stopped, wouldn't answer.

• 32:18Oprah Winfrey?

  After that one time?

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, wouldn't answer the phone.

• 32:21Oprah Winfrey?

  Because that scared you?

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:22Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Uh-huh. And because I wanted her to think well of me. And she called me one day and said, you can trust me. And I knew it. And I was like, come see me. And from that point on, we've been together ever since.

• 32:40Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, so after that little, your tongue came out, you were afraid that this might be, first of all, afraid of your own feelings?

• 32:50Speaker 01

  No, I like my feelings and I like feeling like I feel.

• 32:53Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  But I was afraid that it would mess up our friendship.

• 32:57Oprah Winfrey?

  Your friendship, okay.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  That's what I was afraid of.

• 32:59Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? I'm a honeybee.

• 33:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Okay, so, you know what I mean? People, people wanna find me and they don't, and I can't even stay single if I wanted to, Oprah. They, they, they wanna marry me so fast. I mean, that's just, you know, my mama was a honeybee, my grandmama was a honeybee. It's nothing you could do. It's nothing you could do, when you're a honeybee.

• 33:17Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, I think that there's some women who have that. Yeah.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  I have it.

• 33:21Oprah Winfrey?

  You have it.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, and, and, yeah, I do.

• 33:25Oprah Winfrey?

  We're just, men and women are attracted to you. But had you been attracted to another woman before?

• 33:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 33:32Oprah Winfrey?

  Never?

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Uh-uh.

• 33:33Oprah Winfrey?

  And another woman not even attracted to you, that you knew of?

• 33:36Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 33:37Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Because I wasn't really focused on that.

• 33:40Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Because I told you.

• 33:41Oprah Winfrey?

  Because you like boys.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  I love boys.

• 33:43Oprah Winfrey?

  You love boys?

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:44Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, so the decision to go public. I mean, I remember you were all on the cover of Essence. The decision to go public.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:53Oprah Winfrey?

  Why did you make that decision?

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Well, you've been around Jessica.

• 33:58Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  You have been around her. You can't hide that cute thing in a corner. We can't live in a dark corner, now, could you take a look at it?

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Look at this cute thing, you know? No, I could, I, I, I never wanted to do that. And, and I got flack online because people were like, you never posted, you know, your husband when you were married to him and now you married her and you just got her all on your page. And I was like, that's not true. I posted the relationships that I was in, but nobody cared. Nobody cared until I married this one.

• 34:29Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  And now they, you know.

• 34:31Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  They all on it. And I'm like, well, yeah.

• 34:34Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, so I can see that something settled in you. And even you posted that this is the love forever. You seem more settled, you seem more at peace with yourself. You feel like you've come home to a part of yourself. And you say that Jessica, your hearseman, is, is forever love. So how has that love, your love together, enhanced or elevated your life?

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Well, I'll tell you, I often say that she is the best thing that has ever happened to me. And I wasn't a person who had to necessarily come out because I wasn't in anywhere to come out of. It was just that I met the most beautiful soul and I said, hey, this is who I love right now. This is my person, this is my forever thing. And I feel like when you are loved by someone who does not need you to change to satiate them, is different. Because my situations before always felt like this, this, this is really good, but can you do something with that? You know what I mean? Can you, can you tone this down a pinch? You know what I mean?

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Can you? So it was never, this love is like a full accepting of who I am. And giving me grace where I need it, putting a battery in my back where I need it. You know, loving me in a way that is so complete. And I think it has elevated both of our lives just because people, and it's even straight people will say, I wanna love like that, you know?

• 36:16Oprah Winfrey?

  I think it's so interesting the way each time you've described it, you were saying it's about a soul coming together, a soul.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  I said to her, I will find you in every lifetime because you're my person.

• 36:29Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:30Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna cry my fake eyelashes.

• 36:33Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, okay, I know you're not, I know, I know, I know you're not. And so, is this the first time you feel that you've been with somebody who, you know, that, we know that famous line from the Tom Cruise movie?

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Completes you.

• 36:46Oprah Winfrey?

  You complete me. But not just completes you, but everything I've ever seen, and every time I've always, ever seen you all out together, I can see that this is somebody who wants the best for you. Wants the best for you.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Who never feels like they're in your shadow, or never feels like they're, you know, not getting enough attention. I see her glowing and smiling because of the attention you are getting.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a two-way street.

• 37:14Oprah Winfrey?

  It's a two-way street.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  It's a two-way street.

• 37:16Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:17Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  You know, she performed at something and, you know, I had big shoes on and I was dragging the amp across the stage and somebody was like, no, no, no, no, no, Miss Nisi. You know, you, you, you, you know, you, you Nisi Nash, you, you can go sit down. And I was like, no. I said, I'm Cora Betts right now. And I'm gonna go get this amp over here. I said, right in the front, I was looking at them background singles like.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  You know, get it together, you know.

• 37:44Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  So we, I think it's a, there's definitely a co-laboring in, in, um, in the ru- the runway to greatness.

• 37:52Oprah Winfrey?

  Oh, I love that. Ooh, that's a great quote. There's a co-laboring.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 37:58Oprah Winfrey?

  In the runway.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  To greatness. So we both have to, you know.

• 38:03Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, especially in a relationship. There has to be a co-laboring. And I think so many women in particular find like, uh, you know, recognize that they're doing a lot of the laboring and there's not a lot of co going on.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:19Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  But I feel like that has to do with, um, you know, how we were raised.

• 38:23Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And you saw your mama do all the things.

• 38:26Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  She got the baby on the hips, she stirring the grits, she, she, you know what I mean? She's doing this.

• 38:31Oprah Winfrey?

  Leaving the houses and going to work and then coming back and making sure everybody has everything they need.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  And when you see women move like that, you think that's the way it has to be.

• 38:39Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  But I am very proud of Jessica and I because we created a life that we don't need to escape from.

• 38:47Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  The life that we've curated for ourselves is so delicious. You know what I mean? We could be in the house for a week straight. I mean, my mother even asked me the other day, she said, well, do you guys, because I know we, you guys travel together. So if you gotta go somewhere, she gotta go somewhere, do y'all ever just wanna stay home because y'all, you know, are tired of being around the other person? I said, who? I said, I would live in that girl's skin if I could. Are you crazy?

• 39:13Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow. And how did the rest of the family receive her?

• 39:17Speaker 01

  My, my dear, my baby was like, oh my God, this is so cool. I'm gonna have two moms and a dad. The middle girl said, girl, if you like it, I love it. And my son said, mama, you going through a midlife crisis?

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Actually, I've never been more clear, son.

• 39:36Oprah Winfrey?

  Never been more clear?

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Never.

• 39:37Oprah Winfrey?

  And what did your mother say?

• 39:38Speaker 01

  My mother was again afraid because if you go out in the world and you tell people what you got going on, I can't protect you.

• 39:48Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  What if they're mean to you? What if, what if your job, your opportunities dry up?

• 39:53Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  What, you, you, you can't tell people what goes on in the, in your bedroom. You, you, you just, you know what I mean? Don't do it. Again, trying to protect me.

• 40:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  You know, but I said, well, now you know I'm gonna do what I wanna do, right?

• 40:06Oprah Winfrey?

  Right, right. Did you ever think for a second that your opportunities may change? Or it would alter the way Hollywood saw you?

• 40:17Speaker 01

  I never gave it a thought. Somebody said to me in my family, like, you can't do this. If you go out and you, you, you, you come out here with this, with this girl, you will never eat lunch in this town again. I said, this town?

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Let's just make sure we talking about the same town.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  But no, I never, I, it never, I never even gave it a second thought because you know why I didn't? Because I remembered what was stamped on the canvas of my imagination.

• 40:46Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow, girl.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  So I didn't have to get in my flesh and be like, oh no, worrying about something or having anxiety about something that ain't even happened yet. I'm like, no, the most I created me to be an artist, so I'm gonna keep making art. Now, I don't know where I'm gonna make it or how I'm gonna do it, but it's gonna go, it's gonna happen.

• 41:03Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I wasn't even caught up in the, what the world has to say. I say maybe about 3,000 people unfollowed me when I posted my wedding photo. And then within a matter of a week, like, I don't know, 30,000?

• 41:20Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  People followed me. I, I don't know, you know, and I, I don't really care about it too much because I'm still gonna do what I wanna do.

• 41:28Oprah Winfrey?

  You are actually doing in your life right now, I don't know if a lot of people know this, you're doing that thing that so many women in particular in your generation are having to do, caretaking.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:39Oprah Winfrey?

  And your caretaking.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 41:41Oprah Winfrey?

  For your father. And I want to know what impact that has had on you and also on your family. Because a lot of people are going through it.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  It was very, um, interesting because my father had fallen and was in the hospital. And then from there, they released him to some rehab play. I just got the information kinda late. I'm like, wait, what? So I go to Vegas thinking that, oh, let me go by his apartment that he lives in with his twin brother and get his passport, his bank statement, so we can start to figure this out. And my uncle was worse than my father when I got there.

• 42:19Oprah Winfrey?

  What?

• 42:20Speaker 01

  I'm saying, I couldn't even cry in the moment because it was so jarring to see. And I knew that if I didn't hold it together, I was not gonna make it through. And I was with, um, my makeup artist. She took one look at my uncle, tears started streaming down. She turned around and walked outside. She pulled it together and came back. So now we taking two of y'all. He was down so bad that we had to wrap him up in plastic to even get him in the car.

• 42:46Oprah Winfrey?

  What?

• 42:46Speaker 01

  It was terrible. I mean, cried my eyes out. And then his family, children, you know, they did not wanna help me. And I said, I came out here for my father. I don't even know what. And they just were like, we don't, we don't wanna have anything to do with it. So now I had times too. This one is in here, this one is here, gotta get a transfer, gotta bring back. And I will tell you about that part. Um, it is not for the weak. It is not for the weak. And I wish that the world had more grace and more financial resources for people who step into these situations. And it's expensive.

• 43:26Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  And the better the care, the more expensive it is. But if you wanna throw your loved one in a rat shack.

• 43:30Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  You can pay two or three dollars, but that's not gonna give them the care that they need. And so I, I, I pray for anyone who steps into that place. Um, I was, I had so much anxiety and so much emotional turmoil, um, within myself. And again, I'm just grateful that, you know, my mom and my spouse were able to help me, you know, navigate it all. It's, but it's very, very.

• 44:01Oprah Winfrey?

  What did you learn about yourself during this experience? Because being in a trial like that.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 44:06Oprah Winfrey?

  Having to take care, first of all, now you're taking care of an uncle that you didn't even.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 44:10Oprah Winfrey?

  Know. And I don't know what your relationships were with them before. I think it's hard for a lot of people who are listening to us, watching us right now. When you were asked to step in and take care of somebody who wasn't there to take care of you the way you needed to be taken care of.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Say it louder for the people in the back.

• 44:30Oprah Winfrey?

  I think.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Because that's a fact.

• 44:31Oprah Winfrey?

  That's a fact, yeah.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Now, in my case, you know what I'm saying? The truth is the truth. Not a school jacket, not a pair of shoes, not a nothing, right?

• 44:43Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  And now, everything that you need, I have to supply. So there is a part of you that has to accept it for what it is. Because when you start to continue to replay what it should be.

• 44:57Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  You automatically are gonna be out of order with yourself.

• 45:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Because it should be this and I don't, and it should be that. What is it, baby? Say what it is and let's move forward. That's what I had to do. Because lamenting all of the times that this didn't happen and that didn't happen, it, it wasn't serving me.

• 45:15Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah. And so what do you want to say to people who are dealing with that? Those parents who weren't there for them. You stepped in and did what you needed to do. I mean, I know a lot of people who feel like, well, they weren't there for me. Do I need to do that?

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I mean, that's my situation with the uncle. Those children don't wanna do anything. Um, and what I would tell people is to make sure that you, um, have a place that you can go and talk through it.

• 45:47Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  And just work through it in your mind because that, that, that is a very helping thing, you know?

• 45:52Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  Sometimes Jessica would just take me in her arms and pray for me. I, you know what I mean?

• 45:57Oprah Winfrey?

  Well, the thing about you is, Miss Range, is that your range is so great. We never know how you're gonna show up. Is there an ideal role? If you could have the dream role, the dream character of your life, what would that look like? Because I know you're a big manifester.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Um.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Playing Oprah Winfrey in a biopic? Just kidding. I feel like one of the things that has escaped me up until this point is playing a villain. I mean, you know, you have different variations of that. You have a villain in the Marvel world, but you also have like Devil Wears Prada or Cora the Veil.

• 46:38Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Um, I just, you know, I think that is something that I would really be looking forward to.

• 46:44Oprah Winfrey?

  I love those videos. I don't know who needs to hear this. I don't know who needs to hear this.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Morning, y'all. Morning, y'all. Morning, y'all. I don't know who needs to hear this. I don't know who needs to hear this. But if you wanna be in a successful, long-term relationship, the best way to get there is to date people who want what you want. Hey, I don't know who needs to hear this. But the reason why you have two ears and one mouth is because you're supposed to listen twice as much as you speak.

• 47:19Oprah Winfrey?

  Do those just come to you?

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Yes. I get dressed in the morning, they do my hair and makeup. When I go in the trailer, I just put my camera up and whatever the free-range thought is of the day while I'm doing my last look.

• 47:31Oprah Winfrey?

  I don't know who needs to hear this. The reason you have two ears and one mouth is because you're supposed to listen.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Twice as much as you speak.

• 47:41Oprah Winfrey?

  I love that.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:43Oprah Winfrey?

  How has social media changed the way you relate to and communicate with the people who admire and adore you?

• 47:52Speaker 01

  You know, I try to be as present as I can, you know what I mean? I'm not a girl who's on social media all day. But I will check in and if people say things, I'll comment to you back and, you know, and all of those kinds of things. But it's the Wild Wild West. It's such a new thing. It's like, what is happening? You know?

• 48:14Oprah Winfrey?

  Do you enjoy it? Do you enjoy it?

• 48:17Speaker 01

  You know what I do? I, I enjoy it especially when I get to do fun things with my children.

• 48:23Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  So when, if we do bits or my daughter wants me to learn a dance or, you know, something like that, you know? But it, it can be dark, but I try to stay away from the, from the dark side.

• 48:36Oprah Winfrey?

  The crazy stuff. Is there, are, are there moments, too, obviously, because we don't see everything, that you feel are sacred or private that you wouldn't want to share, that you don't share?

• 48:49Speaker 01

  I was about to say, I don't share when I'm skinny dipping, but that's a lie.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  That's a lie.

• 48:58Oprah Winfrey?

  Do you think there's some things that shouldn't be shared?

• 49:01Speaker 01

  I do.

• 49:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Like, I'm not a person who, if I had a challenge with somebody, you know, my spouse, a hairdresser, or anything, would go to social media. Take it to social media.

• 49:10Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  And I feel like a lot of people just feel like, whatever is happening, you don't even have a chance to work it out before you get online.

• 49:20Oprah Winfrey?

  And trying to work it out online?

• 49:21Speaker 01

  With people who don't even know you.

• 49:23Oprah Winfrey?

  Don't know you.

• 49:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:24Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay. So I have a few rapid questions to ask you.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Uh-oh.

• 49:28Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay. Perfect night with your Hearst button?

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Perfect night with JB would be skinny dipping, drinking expensive champagne.

• 49:40Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  Um, and eating crabs.

• 49:42Oprah Winfrey?

  Eating crabs.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:43Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay. Early bird or night owl?

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Early bird.

• 49:46Oprah Winfrey?

  Favorite moment on set with Kim Kardashian?

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Kim is greedy. And I'm, I'm, I'm, she's greedy. You're greedy, friend. And I have so many videos on my phone of her eating.

• 49:59Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  And you, but where does it go?

• 50:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Where does it, where is it going?

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Where does it go? People who think she don't eat is not true. Greedy.

• 50:06Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:07Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay. Comedy or drama? Do you prefer?

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Drama.

• 50:11Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay. All's Fair Co-star you would most want to go on a road trip with?

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Ooh, rapid fire, Glenn Close.

• 50:21Oprah Winfrey?

  Glenn Close. Okay. Change something in your past?

• 50:25Speaker 01

  You wanna know what I would've changed?

• 50:26Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, yeah, what you wanna change?

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Um, I would've gotten divorced sooner. To the first person I was married to.

• 50:33Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:34Oprah Winfrey?

  Biggest pet peeve?

• 50:36Speaker 01

  I don't like people who don't keep their word. Do what you say and say what you do. You know what I mean? That means a lot. It means you either out of integrity with yourself or, or something. Because when you say you're gonna do something, do it. And that's, that's, that's the principle I live by, period.

• 50:50Oprah Winfrey?

  What is the lesson that's taken you the longest to learn?

• 50:55Speaker 01

  The lesson that has been the longest for me to learn

• 51:00Speaker 01

  is that you cannot accept, you cannot expect people to move the way you do.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  And that took me a long time to, like, why don't you just see that? This is the right thing. This is the nice thing. This is the kind thing. This is the thing. And, you know, that was the hardest lesson, to know that people, they don't, they don't and won't always move like you think they should.

• 51:25Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah. You think you got it this time?

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Oh, I got it.

• 51:27Oprah Winfrey?

  You got it.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  I got it. No, we don't have to go through that one again.

• 51:33Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay. One dinner guest, any living person, who's getting that invitation?

• 51:38Speaker 01

  You.

• 51:39Oprah Winfrey?

  Really?

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. I feel like, you know, when we chatted, um, in Hawaii that time. We went on that two-hour hike.

• 51:49Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  The knowledge, the insight, the wisdom. I mean, but, but it's like double dipping because you pour a mean drink too. You know what I mean?

• 52:00Speaker 01

  So I know that it would be full of laughter, but at the same time, you know, life lessons, joy, heartaches.

• 52:07Oprah Winfrey?

  We had a good time.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  We had a good time.

• 52:09Oprah Winfrey?

  We had a good time. And you finished, you, you did that heel and you goes, woo!

• 52:13Speaker 01

  I don't know why I did it with eyelashes and makeup. You said, you going hiking like that?

• 52:17Oprah Winfrey?

  You going hiking like that? Oh, my God. Well, okay. The thing that you think people most misunderstand about you?

• 52:25Speaker 01

  I think that people probably think I'm happy all the time. You know what I mean? I'm the life of the party. Any industry party, JB and I are the first ones on the dance floor. I'm always happy. I always have an encouraging word. But I think that they think that that is primarily it, you know? And a lot of people think that when you're well off financially, that you don't have problems, which is the furthest from the truth.

• 52:55Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah. They don't know you're taking care of your daddy and your uncle and all the other stuff that comes with that.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  And the money can't do nothing about your heartache and your, and your pain and your trauma.

• 53:04Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah. What is the one word you would use to best describe yourself?

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Delicious.

• 53:14Oprah Winfrey?

  Social media. Haters, for all the haters, you clap back or you let it go?

• 53:19Speaker 01

  Most of the time, I let it go. And every now and then, I have time.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  I got time today.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Because I really am a person, and, and, and my mother said this, she said, "You don't care what anybody thinks about you." I said, "I know, right?" She said, "Like, it was supposed to be a bad thing. I don't care. I don't even know you. Do you think I care what you think? And even if I know you, I'm gonna tell you 10 reasons why I disagree with what you just said I need to be doing with my black life."

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Worry about yourself, okay?

• 53:57Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  So I really don't pay too much attention to where it bothers me. But every now and then, if I have time, I'll, I'll give a little clap back.

• 54:04Oprah Winfrey?

  You'll clap back?

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Uh-huh. We had somebody that was very much like, you know, giving us the whole, you going to hell, you're not gonna make it because you're in this relationship, God is not pleased, you with this, that, and the third. And I said, "Well, have you, have you ever prayed for me?" 'Cause they were standing on their Bible. I said, "Have you ever invited me to your church? But you condemning me and you ain't never even reached out to try to restore me and save this old soul." What's happening? You know what I mean? The person was very repentant.

• 54:39Oprah Winfrey?

  Really?

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like all the pictures now, all the this and that. But I think, let me say this. The challenge, the, the biggest challenge, I think, with the queer community is people who are not in that group. Look at people who are living their lives to the fullest in the way that they wanna be happy, the way that they wanna be seen, that there's so much joy and freedom. It is the freedom. Because when you tapped into something that says a whole list of what you can't do, and then you look over here at this community that's doing everything folk says you can't do and still having a good time, it's like, got to be more careful. I'm jealous of that.

• 55:20Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  That's what I expect.

• 55:21Oprah Winfrey?

  Or wanna condemn it for whatever reason.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:24Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, yeah. Okay. Book or movie or TV show that impacted you the most?

• 55:29Speaker 01

  Ava's movie, Origin.

• 55:31Oprah Winfrey?

  Really?

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:31Oprah Winfrey?

  In what way?

• 55:32Speaker 01

  You know what? It just unpacked so many things about race and relation to it and, and just, you know, it was just like a light bulb. It's like, wait, now it all makes sense. Now it all makes sense. So I think that movie, you know, and I wasn't even in it that long, but it's not the point of the experience in the movie, it's what the movie was about.

• 55:52Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  What it represented. And I was like, what it was, what, what it was given to the world to teach.

• 55:59Oprah Winfrey?

  Absolutely.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? A visual to the book.

• 56:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  I loved it.

• 56:02Oprah Winfrey?

  Absolutely. Best piece of wisdom you ever received?

• 56:06Speaker 01

  You don't have to eat a whole side of a cow to know that it's beef. All it takes is a bite.

• 56:13Oprah Winfrey?

  That is a great one.

• 56:18Oprah Winfrey?

  You don't have to eat a whole side of a cow to know that it's beef.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Just take a bite.

• 56:26Oprah Winfrey?

  It only takes a bite.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  You just gonna keep eating it or what you gonna do?

• 56:37Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow. Who told you that?

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know. You know, I used to always listen on my aunties, my grandma. My great-grandmother was a young great-grandmother. Um, somebody around there.

• 56:51Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow, that is a great one.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  Somebody around.

• 56:54Oprah Winfrey?

  I have never heard that. Okay?

• 56:57Speaker 01

  Not you, Stump.

• 56:58Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, I'm stumped. Okay. Okay, funniest person you've ever worked with?

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Funniest person I've ever worked with, um, it's a tie. It's a tie between Bernie Mac and Cedric Yarborough, who was on Reno 911. I mean, just even in the, not even, he's not even a stand-up comedian, but he's one of the funniest people I've worked with, him and Bernie Mac.

• 57:23Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay. Do funny people make you funnier? Or does it sort of then become a competition?

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Uh, it's not that they make you funnier. It's this that, you know, sometimes you feel like, let me pile on to this bit. Let me add my two cents in, you know? I'm not like that, you know what I mean? I'm happy for somebody to make me laugh because I'm always the one. You know what I mean? So, yes, so even every year when it's Mother's Day and everybody want to put on a big hat and get stuffed into a restaurant. No, I want my kids to stand up there in front of that fireplace and do stuff. Get up there and do something. I want a talent show. I want to tell jokes. I don't, entertain me for once. So they know that is what I want. Once a year is to sit back with my arms folded and watch people entertain me.

• 58:09Oprah Winfrey?

  Don't go dragging you to no restaurant, giving you no brunch.

• 58:11Speaker 01

  Please don't.

• 58:12Oprah Winfrey?

  Please don't.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  Get the show together.

• 58:13Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay. What have you gotten better at saying no to?

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a great question. Um, what I've gotten better at is not contemplating for too long when it doesn't bear witness right away. You know, when somebody says something to you and you go, mm. And then usually I will spend the time to try to walk it down. Try to, well, maybe if this, but I really, but I, I, and I don't do that anymore. So when the thing comes that that first instinct is like, mm, mm, mm, then it's just gonna be, no. I'm so, I can't do it.

• 58:50Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  I can't do it because if, if it's gonna, you know, disrupt my peace, my flow, my this, my that. And sometimes it's not even about that. I just don't want to. I don't want to. I want to stay home and enjoy my mortgage. I don't want to go. I want to rub my feet together.

• 59:06Oprah Winfrey?

  I want to stay home and enjoy my mortgage.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  I don't want to be outside all the time.

• 59:12Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, last one. Finish this sentence. Love is...

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 59:20Oprah Winfrey?

  And so are you.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Aw, thank you.

• 59:22Oprah Winfrey?

  Thank you. This was so fun. I want to say All's Fair, Season Two premieres on Hulu on November 4th. And thank you to Nezzy Nash Bets for lighting up this tea house with your bedazzling energy.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  Aw, thank you, thank you.

• 59:39Oprah Winfrey?

  Thanks to Seth and Hadiya for your questions and see you next time. Go well, everybody. Nezzy Nash Bets, yay!

• 59:48Oprah Winfrey?

  Our listeners tell us that the podcast is resonating with you and is serving as a bright spot in your day. That means a lot to me. So here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like and subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube or wherever you podcast. It's, it's just a quick tap of the subscribe button and that way you won't miss an episode in your queue. You don't have to pay anything. I know subscribe usually means you're paying something, but this time it means you just are notified when there's something new. There are many more to come that we're excited about. So thank you for watching and listening.