Jason Lee Unfiltered: Disrupting Media, Unlocking Hollywood, Talks Drake, Floyd, 50 & More

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find After meeting Jason Lee during Super Bowl week and becoming fascinated with his story and impact in media and culture, Ryan, Channing and Fred asked him to sit down to talk about how he’s disrupting the industry and breaking down barriers for black media in Hollywood. Completely uncensored and unfiltered, this conversation journeys a young boy from Stockton, California surviving a rough childhood, growing through grief and overcoming adversity to become a pioneer in the business. From Floyd Mayweather to Cardi B to Rhianna to Tiffany Haddish, Jason talks about how he was able to leverage close relationships to make a solid name for himself and go from blogger to reality tv star to podcast host to author to entrepreneur to media mogul as he continues to disrupt the norm of Hollywood and unlock stories that entertain millions. Jason acknowledges his brand, image and approach in the industry is sometimes questioned and comes off intrusive but he assures the guys it’s one he’s comfortable with because he’ll always prioritize authenticity over a check. This style of storytelling is often unpopular among Hollywood’s elite but it also has led to his company having a nearly 50M evaluation in a few short years and positioned himself as a trusted source of information. As Ryan, Channing, and Fred dive into the experiences that have shaped his journey, Jason opens up and reveals that witnessing the murder of his brother completely destroyed his feelings. Working through the effects and emotions from it all, Jason turned his pain into purpose and used his survivor mentality to cultivate the industry. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Semaglutide injection, 2.4mg a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 0:30Speaker 01

  How's everybody? How are you? Good to see you. Not gonna be, no fights and confrontations happening.

• 0:36Fred Taylor?

  Ain't nothing what's happening.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  I thought I was the only one that went to parties and got in fights. You be round the drama now, don't that like? I didn't have no drama that day.

• 0:45Ryan Clark?

  That wasn't what was expected.

• 0:48Fred Taylor?

  When you feeling pressure, you know you gotta turn that pressure up a little bit.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  I ain't mad.

• 0:51Fred Taylor?

  Keep that foot on they neck.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  I ain't mad, trust me, it's the story of my life.

• 0:55Ryan Clark?

  Look, see, he's starting, I got his number. Jason, you got, bro, you got everybody's number, man.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  I do. Humble start, just saying.

• 1:01Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, you know. Somebody gonna take his phone one day. Me?

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Good luck.

• 1:07Ryan Clark?

  Me?

• 1:08Speaker 01

  They just say it ain't no easy win, Jay. Nah, nah.

• 1:34Ryan Clark?

  Man, welcome to the Pivot. We've been trying to work on this for a second. Freddie T, Chan, I'm RC. Thank you to our partners. Well, I'm gonna knock one open. It's early in the morning.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  I got my own box.

• 1:44Ryan Clark?

  Can we get it right this time? I'ma roll it, here we go. It's too early for this, he probably gotta write some stuff.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  I was drinking yesterday, I'm actually trying to drink less.

• 1:54Ryan Clark?

  That's good.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, for me.

• 1:56Ryan Clark?

  When you drink though, do you put out more stories then, or less?

• 1:59Speaker 01

  No, when I drink, let's see, we go, we get in five. I mean, it depends. You know, I'm not an angry drunk, but I'm also not always a happy drunk. So I just never really know what's gonna happen. It can be, it can be a lot.

• 2:11Ryan Clark?

  So it's whatever?

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Depending on who's in the room, you know, I follow the energy. If the energy's great, we have a great time. But if that energy ain't right, it can be really bad.

• 2:19Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, man, also, to DraftKings, we appreciate your sponsorships. Everybody download DraftKings Sportsbook on your mobile devices. I want to get into something because you're talking about energy. And I've been around you a couple of times. The energy's always great, always polite, always cordial. Seem like I have a good time, but that's not where your story starts. You know, to get to a point to say, "God must have forgotten about me," you have to go through some things. And I've seen different pieces of what you said about your childhood. How did going through those things, whether it's foster care, dealing with the demons your mother had, not necessarily having a father figure? How has that shaped you today?

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I really, I lean into all the transgressions I've had in life. Like, I don't look at anything, being shot, or losing my brother, or being in foster care, or being molested, or my coming out story. Like, I look at it all as just the journey that the life I live is kind of afforded to me. Because I learned early on how to go through so much, I also learned how to survive it, how to come on the other side of it. There was a time, I think, where I was not really happy with life, that I allowed whatever I felt to just come out. So my whole thing was, I embraced the words, "Fuck it." Like, fuck it, like, fuck it was a good thing. Oh, we got it, oh, cool, fuck it. Or, you got a problem, fuck it. You know, I mean, that literally was my mentality coming from Northern California. So for a long time, the way I allowed it to impact me was, however I felt, I made sure people felt that.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Good, bad, happy, sad, like, it was just something that I projected. I learned over time how to cope with different things I've gone through, how to take those perceived weaknesses and turn them into my strengths. Using my story, the book, "God Must Have Forgot About Me," to like, share it as an offering to other people who are trying to find their way through life. And now, I understand my power and I've connected that to my purpose. So I'm evolving and I'm allowing myself the experience of making mistakes as I evolve and not wanting to be perfect all the time. You know, people are giving me grace now, and I'm in therapy. That's a whole other new thing that I'd never... People always told me you need to go to therapy, but I thought that was people being funny like, yo ass need to go get help. Nigga, you need to get help, man. Yo wife is cheating on you. Yo kids is on drugs.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Like, yo shit, yo dog is even fucked up. Like, yo whole life is a mess, but I need therapy. You know, I felt like people were always projecting the need to get therapy on me. And so I really just like started the process of self-love and the journey of like, really looking at myself in the mirror and then now I'm in therapy.

• 4:46Channing Crowder?

  It's a lot to break down with that, but the one thing that got me was you said, I know my purpose.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:52Channing Crowder?

  I don't hear a lot of people say that. You have to ask somebody that.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:54Channing Crowder?

  You know your purpose. You know what your purpose is? What is that?

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Well, right now, we just defined the three pillars. So at first, when we started Hollywood Unlocked, you know, the idea was, you know, I want to go in and show people their favorite celebrities in a way that they can't see because I feel like the way people are writing about them is just not fair. You know, a friend of mine who's been on the show, Floyd Mayweather, we would go places and, you know, when you know Floyd intimately, you know, he's never gonna be on time. He's always gonna have a shopping trip in the run of a day. There's gonna be three to five or 12 girlfriends. Don't know most of them some of the time and we gonna hit a strip club. That's what we know is gonna happen with Floyd. But when you get to know him personally, you know, he's a very generous person, very caring, very thoughtful, very confident in himself. He makes sure that other people around him feel the same energy and he's always pushing you through stories

• 5:43Speaker 01

  of what he's gone through to be greater. And I felt like when I saw him in the duality in a private way, I didn't see that publicly. It was always like, you know, the drama around him. And so I wanted to create a space to show people their favorite celebrity. But when I got in the game, people wouldn't let me in because they were afraid. Like, oh, he's gonna be messy. He's gonna be... This is before I was even messy. So I said, okay, you know what? All right. You asked for it and I literally locked into my, at the time, what I thought was my purpose. And my purpose was to just be very disruptive. I'm gonna disrupt the space. And so, once I did that and I started seeing the reaction and the pickup and the viral moments and the numbers and the money, it was like, okay, you know what? Let me just pour some gas on this then. And then that's where I became more strategic

• 6:27Speaker 01

  with the purpose of going viral, with the purpose of being disruptive, not with the purpose of connecting to what I believe my calling was. So it wasn't until I really just kind of grew through all that and just felt like, "Okay, I'm working on myself." All the vibrational energy that I know how to create very well, even still to this day. I'm gonna be a little bit more temperate and a little bit more strategic at how I do it and focus on my delivery, so that way the messaging, what I'm trying to do, doesn't get lost. And so, it's been, yeah, I'm a work in progress.

• 6:57Fred Taylor?

  Was Love and Hip Hop a part of the process and the strategy of getting to where you are now?

• 7:02Speaker 01

  See, it's interesting. What I've learned along the way is that I've always been smart. I've always been intelligent. Being smart and intelligent, two different things. I've been street smart, because I've survived the streets of Stockton, one of the most dangerous cities in the country. I survived foster care. I survived not losing myself to drugs, or suicide, or prison, having gone through what I've gone through. You know, when you watch your brother get his brains blown out, and you watch the police step in the brains and have a conversation about it, it in a way dehumanizes the person that you love the most. You could literally lose your mind if you allow yourself to. So when I look at how all the things I've survived, and I looked at my behavior, my behavior, it would've made sense to be on a Love and Hip Hop, but Love and Hip Hop wasn't the door I wanted to go in. It just was the only door that opened for me.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  And that was, you know, it's very telling, because just this morning, I had a call with the Fortune 500 brand about this big, multi-year, multi-million dollar partnership. And I'm talking to them, and when I was thinking about how I would tell my story, because I knew that they had done their research and it was gonna start at Love and Hip Hop, because that's when they got to know me. I started with the foster kid, the kid that made it out the hood, the kid that had a dream, the kid that couldn't find an opportunity, and the only door that opened in the mainstream ecosystem of media was Love and Hip Hop. So I had to shape who I believed I was around a show that wasn't necessarily who I was. That's not who the industry knew me, that's not who my friends knew me, that's not who my family knew me. So once I got in that door and I met with them,

• 8:26Speaker 01

  it was very clear, they wanted somebody who was gonna stir up all the shit, somebody who was gonna be in everybody's business. And I said, "Well, Hollywood Unlocked is my business. Everybody's business is my business." And then I got in and I played my position, and I did it well. Well, then I started doing things and falling into situations in the show. That I can control and that was actually what was the beauty in my brand because it built my podcast. That's what made me go and start my podcast. And as you know, having a successful show like this, I mean, you you have a platform that you fully control how your audience sees you and what you say. And that that became the tipping point in like changing the public's perception slowly, very slowly. From seeing me on this one TV show to saying, well, that ain't who I see over here.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  And while I don't regret it because it was a door that fast-tracked Hollywood unlocked in front of the world. It's something that I look back now and I say, OK, just like with my sexuality, I don't want to lead with that. But it's definitely a part of the fabric of who I've become.

• 9:23Fred Taylor?

  We see those shows and a lot of time they come at you very dramatic. Yeah. It's this, it's that, it's loud, it's all of that. How often would you guys go off script?

• 9:32Speaker 01

  It wasn't scripted for me. Were there people on the show that we know like, OK, you just hopped off a jet? You ain't got no damn jet. You living in a hotel. We noticed it. But you know, I always said to them, don't put me in a scene where they're doing all of that because I'm literally going to call them out. I just can't be around fake. Fake is just not something that I can do. I can't talk to you about your yacht if I know that you don't even have a bathtub at your house. Like, we're not gonna do that. So they knew putting me in those situations was gonna create those things, you know? Mine was never scripted. I think the one thing I I had a problem with when I left and went to Wild 'n Out and having an experience with MTV that was very different than VH1 was you're letting your audience believe I'm an emotionless tree who's just messy and wants to show up and throw drinks at women. That's what you're doing.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  And as a gay man, a black gay man in the world of entertainment, whose best friend is one of the most successful athletes in the world and whose other best friend is a very successful female artist in the world. Like, how is it that I've allowed myself to be used as a prop? How? How am I this intelligent? How did I survive all the stuff I just told you and then end up on national television and for the whole world as the expectation of what they think a gay black man should look like? So I had to really reconcile with myself that I had to pivot.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  From this thing that they wanted me to be to who I knew me to be. And so, yeah, it was, um, I don't think they were scripted storylines. I think the talent comes up with their ideas of what they want the public to think of them. But that's why most of them now aren't successful. Cause your storyline ran its course, the network shut it down. You had no ownership in nothing and you, you don't got no love or hip hop. Now you're just out there famous and broke.

• 11:15Ryan Clark?

  We're here with Jason Lee, CEO of Hollywood Unlocked. And listening to you speak about your friends and the people you form relationships with, but also the perception that you allow the world to see by being on Love and Hip Hop and the kind of narratives that they can create. What type of work do you have to do in your relationships to get people to trust you? Cause you say they painted you as the, the messy gay guy who is gonna throw drinks in people's face. But when you are friends with the Floyd Mayweathers and the other extremely successful and famous people, how do you get them to trust you, embrace you in the way that you guys have in order to build these bonds?

• 11:56Speaker 01

  I connect with people. It's sort of like when I saw you at Super Bowl, the first thing I said was congratulations on all your success. Cause I've been watching you all at least should build this thing. I know how it is, even though each of you have individual successes in your careers, but to come together, find chemistry, have moments that create a conversation in this space when we know that conversations like these often get diluted because it's an oversaturated market. Everybody wants a talk show, right? Or a podcast, they don't deserve it, but they have one. But I ain't talking about nobody y'all know. I'm just saying. I don't wanna bring no mess into the thing. There we go. We always say. I ain't gonna, I said I was gonna cut it and be a little different.

• 12:32Fred Taylor?

  The thing is this, anybody can podcast, not everybody can pivot.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  That part. And you know what pivoting, code switching, being able to, you know? Have the humility to see when things aren't necessarily working and make adjustments so it works. You know, that's what the audience connects with. And I feel like, you know, whether it's a Floyd, or a Cardi, or a Tiffany Asher, or Rihanna, or even the Vice President of the United States, or you, when I talk to people, I just like to connect with good energy. If I feel you have bad energy, you're going to get a different experience with me. If you are not real to me, or you don't reveal yourself to me, when I feel like I'm being very vulnerable and transparent with you, then I just feel like it's a surface relationship, so I'm not gonna go deeper. I don't change in how I behave with Rihanna, or Cardi, or Floyd, or you, or Alicia.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Like, what you see is what you get. And oftentimes, I feel like, when I walk in a room, and I'll share a quick story. I was having a conversation with somebody who was very powerful in media. And they text me the other day when I was doing an interview, and they said, "When do you want to come on our platform and reconcile your relationship with black women?" And I had to really sit with that text for me, because I've learned how to not be reactionary right away, and I have a lot of respect for this black woman who sent me this. So I sat with her, and I texted her back, I said, "Well, what do you mean?" And she said, "Black women believe that you have a problem with them." So I started thinking, like, it's not the Vice President who I just had coffee with. It's not Cardi B, it's not Rihanna, it's not Queen Latifah. It's not my staff, it's...

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Okay, well, my reaction to her was, I am an equal-opportunity agitator. I have stood behind Dave Chappelle when he did a stand-up special and disagreed with the trans community. I've stood against mainstream ecosystem of media projecting black gay men just wearing high heels and makeup in purses and being sidekicks to reality star women. I've said very clearly, I don't date white men, because I can't date somebody that doesn't understand my journey, and hasn't been a part of my struggle. But it doesn't mean that all those groups don't have value and don't have a purpose in life or anything. It's just, I'm saying my opinion. If I saw a woman that I thought was ugly, it's not because she's from Africa, it's just she ugly.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  She ugly, her kid's gonna be ugly, her friend's probably ugly, everybody ugly. But that's my opinion.

• 14:49Channing Crowder?

  Ugly energy?

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, ugly energy. Now, that's the thing. You can have positive energy and be beautiful. You know? I just probably not gonna lay next to you, but... But I like when you walk in the room. You know what I mean? So like, I say, I think Lizzo is beautiful. You know, I think she radiates confidence and beauty in her own way. And I just feel like people have always wanted to control my free thought. And I said to her, I want to welcome a conversation about my relationship with black women in a very public way. She said, I want you to feel safe. I said, the only way I'll feel safe is if it's really honest. Like how you all banned me from having access to your female audience because of your perception of me. So you canceled culture.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Cancel culture is the cancer that's killing art. I'm a part of the culture as a culture disruptor, culture shifter, but you don't get to tell me my contribution to culture. Just like I can't tell Dave Chappelle, don't tell me your story about that relationship with trans, or don't say a joke about trans because it hurts my feelings. Guess what? The best people to do this business are people who provoke emotion. And art should create energy that makes us all talk. And so whether a friend's telling me how great Trump is, may not always agree. Or a person telling me, you know, Barack Obama, you know, didn't do enough for black people, maybe he did, maybe he didn't. That's your thought. I welcome the conversation, let's talk about it. But I feel like many times, people expect me to just go along to get along, and that shit just is not the fabric of who I am.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  So, yeah, Rihanna, she filled me up by seeing me as a human being. Floyd told me I was gonna be the greatest before I believed I was gonna be the greatest. Queen Latifah stayed on the phone with me tonight, my brother got murdered, and talked me through it 26 years ago. So, everybody has had a different experience with me. If you, but I always say like, if you judge me or judge a group of people, if you judge Dwyane Wade and Gabrielle Union for how they stand behind their daughter, or if you judge the mother Breonna Taylor, who feels like there should be more laws to protect black women, men from being killed by police officers, if you feel, you know, that I, as a black man, shouldn't interview Trump, I should only interview Obama, that's your choice. But I get to choose to think differently, and you have to either respect it or not have the luxury of having an experience with me that's valuable.

• 17:03Channing Crowder?

  And being that honest and open and just, it's really, it's everybody's opinion. It's your opinion, what you feel about certain sex and, you know, different situations that happen. Is there a group of people?

• 17:14Ryan Clark?

  Or somebody that you think about before you answer, before you make strong opinions?

• 17:17Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:18Ryan Clark?

  Because my thing is my wife.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:19Ryan Clark?

  Like, anything I say, anything I just saying, color, race, sex, any of that stuff, I don't give a damn, I argue with you.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:25Ryan Clark?

  I really do think about not upsetting my wife before I say, and I know, you know, when crazy shit's about to be said.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:30Ryan Clark?

  There's nobody out there.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  But then you go on a talk show and catch some shit for what you said?

• 17:34Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  It was Tamara, right?

• 17:36Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, the Tamara.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  And look at Tamara, out there, acting out right now. She being messy with Angela, yeah. And The Breakfast Club tried to throw Charlamagne under the boat. Who else she under?

• 17:46Ryan Clark?

  Marsha Pippin?

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Marsha Pippin, she brought up the Jordan, what the hell, the Jordan shoe? But here's the deal, we all got shit.

• 17:51Ryan Clark?

  She, look at this time, man. But the thing is, we all be good, bro. Y'all, y'all keep it cool, I'ma,

• 17:57Speaker 01

  See how I'm pimping it?

• 17:58Ryan Clark?

  I'ma get out of here, y'all, y'all be good.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  No, but I'm just saying, I'm just saying, like, we all got shit.

• 18:02Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  But you gotta be careful, because see, when you start telling people how to think and what not to say and whatnot, now your shit got thrown out there. I don't like the fake shit. I feel like those are the people who are gonna end up in the boneyard with the other dinosaurs, because real is rare, and people are looking for what cuts through the bullshit. And when you were on the show, you just were telling your truth. And look at the Instagram, here you are on social media. When I see you, and I see your contribution to culture and what you're doing and building, and it's very easy for people to sit back and judge, but are they willing to get in the ring and fight like we do every day and do this thing? No.

• 18:37Ryan Clark?

  Is there any part of the backlash or being canceled and all those things, are there any parts of that that ever affect you? That ever make you think to yourself, maybe I should change the way I go about doing my job or I go about living?

• 18:51Speaker 01

  No, because when you own yourself, when you own your platform, when you own your business, there's a certain level of freedom that comes from that. There's no brand, no check that can say, if you go down this lane, you're gonna lose me. Okay, well, there's a competitor out there that's looking for me to lose you. So I look at it as I'm in a position of strength. So this is no longer going to work for Fashion Nova, whether it's Pretty Little Thing. Okay, Pretty Little Thing's not gonna work for you, whether it's Sheen. I'll fly to Japan and sit down with the people at Sheen to get that deal. Just so I can come back and build this big plan. And I feel like with cancel culture, brands, media try to control how you behave, how you move, how you think.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  If you don't fall in line with this, this doesn't align with our values. Well, wasn't your CEO just caught cheating with an underage kid? Or were they in your pastor, just do something with the altar? Like, how far back do we need to peel back cancel culture? Because if you really peel it all the way back, you would say Joe Rogan saying a million times, and Whoopi Goldberg getting suspended, there's a disparity there. And we all know that cancel culture is really designed to cancel culture. So, yeah, I'm not afraid of none of that. And I really feel like, and what I said to the brand I talked to today was, if you want the millions of people that I speak to, I mean, 275 million impressions a week, over a billion minutes watched, you know, millions and millions of people, and then our ecosystem of people to distribute our content, if you want that, there's the price to pay for it.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  But here's also the understanding that you're not sponsoring, you're investing. You're giving me your money to invest in getting access to my audience, and I'm telling my audience that they can trust you. So it's a symbiotic relationship. But if you want to cancel me, great, then I'm gonna go tell everybody why I'm canceled.

• 20:32Ryan Clark?

  You were very vocal about the white PR of black stars and of, whether it's black entertainers or sports figures, pushing them toward what they were familiar and comfortable with. And then you had an opportunity to interview. I forget who the actress was, but she made sure to give you some time, and you thanked her and said, "Look, I appreciate you taking the time because we understand how everybody pushes you away from the black media." Why was it so important for you to make sure the world understood the type of adversities you were fighting, or people like us, or people like you were fighting in order to get into that genre?

• 21:15Speaker 01

  It's a great question, and it's also pivoting. Let me tell you how it started. You're talking about Halle Berry. She gave a moment to a journalist named Emerald Maria on a carpet where she was being pulled by her white publicist away from black media. And then she said, "No, I need to go talk to him." And she came back in. That happened right after I had gone on The Breakfast Club and said, "Fuck the NAACP, fuck Sunshine and Saks, fuck Slate PR." Because they had denied access to my team that covered the Image Awards, but they wanted us to come to the brunch to promote for their sponsors, who they were honoring. And I said, "That's like..." That's like a different level of gatekeeping. Now, what you're saying is you're gonna invite all the media to come and give you all the millions

• 21:58Speaker 01

  of impressions to support your sponsors by keeping us in the back. But then you're gonna put all of the mainstream media at the top of the carpet to cover Beyonce and Angela Bass and all the people that we talk about every day. So I went on The Breakfast Club and I mean, I let them have it. And I hurt everybody. I mean, I, and I literally said, "Fuck NAACP and those people." And I mean, the internet went crazy. And I went to lunch.

• 22:26Speaker 05

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 22:36Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Somemagnitide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 22:55Speaker 01

  I didn't lose a night's sleep. I didn't lose any of that. Because that's how I feel and that's how I felt. The reason why I said that was, I said, "You know what? I'm gonna go ahead and take the hit for everybody." All the black journalists who get up every day and fight hard to go to a place to, to talk to people that we love and celebrate every day, to promote them to millions of people, for them to sell to their sponsors, only to be pulled at the end of a carpet, to be given maybe a half of a question, while E! Online or Entertainment Tonight and all these other people, Hollywood reporters that don't look like us, who seem or perceive to be more valuable, get the most time. And it's the white publicists for these black organizations like NAACP that control that.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  So if you piss them off, they shut you down from being able to have access to culture. So these black organizations, historically like a BET, now NAACP, will hire these companies to gatekeep culture. So I took that on. And then I started educating people like Kevin Hart and Tiffany Addish about like, "When you go to the carpet, just take a look." And then now they go and they walk straight to us and then they go back. Or they'll come and they'll say, "Hey, I gotta go here, I gotta go there." And I haven't shared this yet, but I will say, I just got some clippings, because we started doing something else too. We started taking two cameras, filming people on the carpet and filming us filming people on the carpet. So that way we can see the whole experience. At the Creed premiere, my team saw Chloé Bailey. She always shows us love.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  She came over, she came over with a black publicist. And the black publicist brought her up to us and she answered all the questions we asked her. And then I saw a clip of Michael B. Jordan brought over by a white publicist. He answered one real surface level question and then she pulled him away. And I haven't put that out yet, because I'm thinking of the way I wanna put it out, because I do love Michael B. Jordan, what he represents and how important he is to the culture and all that. But it's almost like it's still happening. That segregation of how they separate us on the carpet and the disparity of how they allow us to have access to our people is still happening. That's why I've never done a red carpet, because I will be the one on the carpet to say, "Nah, nah, come over here." Bring your, it will literally be a moment.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  They won't let me on the carpet for those purposes, because I wouldn't be able to.

• 25:09Channing Crowder?

  Well, Jason, you're trying to break down this invisible wall, if you wanna put it in front of the red carpet, or the prejudice, the racism that the media has. Do you think you're going about it the right way? Because they hate your ass now, I would guess. They don't, they don't enjoy this. Are you breaking them down or are you making them dislike you more?

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Well, let me tell you what happened. Again, I believe that we are conditioned to believe that we have to be submissive to the bullshit and in fear of losing something. My business had a 77% compound annual growth rate. For people that don't know what that means, our revenue tripled the year before, doubled last year. And now, after getting a $50 million valuation, we wanna double the amount of money we make this year. I got denied access to that award show. I went and launched my own award show, the Hollywood Unlocked Impact Awards. We just had Mariah Carey and Floyd and Tiffany and Liz on. This year, we're coming back even bigger and better. So I don't believe that because you don't allow me to come back, my life is over. I just go create it, you know? I go create my own. And going back to your original question, you know that strength comes back from when I lost my brother. I didn't lose my life.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  In fact, I gained more purpose. And so I now live in that and I allow that to motivate me. Now, does it make it uncomfortable? Yeah, it makes it uncomfortable for them because just yesterday I went to an event. When I walked in, I can feel the energy, you know, I can feel it. But I went and I tapped Jordan Woods on the shoulder. Hi, how are you? I'm the one that wrote the story about her and Tristan Thompson. I mean, everybody that I knew was gonna be uncomfortable, I went and said hello to them. Because I'm not mad. Do I think I'm going about it in the wrong way? I think I'm a culture disruptor. I think in the end, people will respect my fearlessness. They'll say whatever they want about me, but I don't let their opinions rinse paste in my head.

• 26:53Fred Taylor?

  And regardless of, you know, what people say, it has to mean something for you to be able to go out there and raise 1.7 million and receive that $50 million valuation. I mean, you're trusted. It says a lot, right?

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I also think people are smart about who's moving the needle and they see the growth of the company and they see the trajectory. I mean, we did this in the last seven years. You know, I have probably 10 more good years left in me, but we have some very big projects that we're building. Yeah, I think there's a certain level of trust. I mean, fiscally, I'm responsible. I'm not wasting money. Everything I make, I pour right back into the business. There's deals that I don't take because although I want the millions of dollars, I just know like ownership is important and being able to stay in control and be able to be authentically real and transparent. You know, do I wanna be liked more? Yeah, I mean, you know, it feels good to be liked, but at what cost? You know, if I sit down with the Vice President,

• 27:50Speaker 01

  I have to tell her that my optics matter too. You know, me sitting here with you and how it looks for me to sit here with you matter. And so what you do and how you pour into me.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  Vice President heard me talking shit. Yo!

• 28:07Fred Taylor?

  They can do anything from the White House now.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Timing was questionable, Kamala. But, you know, sitting down with her, optics matter. And even, you know, when somebody say, oh, you know, reconcile with black women. Well, that's a black woman that I reached out to to sit down and say, how can I help you? You know? So again, I can't like really like get caught up in what people think. But in terms of people trusting me with the investment, I mean, yeah. I mean, I came in saying that I knew my exit was gonna be this and that I wanna build a billion dollar brand and I wanna figure out how to transition to a network and create more shows. And I think with building The Jason Lee Show and Hollywood Unlocked and Censor and the different things I built. It's really showing me like I know how to build a show. I know how to monetize a show. I know how to execute and get a show picked up. So why don't I just become my own network?

• 28:51Ryan Clark?

  Let's say I worked for Hollywood Unlock or something very similar. And I were breaking these stories, which are just truth. They're just spreading the facts about what people are doing. They wouldn't call me messy. I might be something else. I might be a disruptor or an agitator, but they wouldn't call me messy. How, you talk about being black and what that is in the business. How much do you think being gay plays into that too? Where they see you as more, they try to paint you as more catty, messy, petty, when you're doing a job you set out to do.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  I mean, that's true too. I mean, but I look at a lot of the people that, you know, I don't know if Harvey at TMZ is gay. He's gay, I think. Well, he seemed gay. I think you gay. You may be gay, I don't know. He gay, but he not black. How many stories has Harvey broke that have ruined lives? That have lied about people being dead? I said the Queen was dead, the whole world fell apart. Okay, maybe she wasn't dead. I Googled the other day, we didn't see her.

• 29:50Ryan Clark?

  If you don't see nobody, they dead?

• 29:53Speaker 01

  What? Yes. But anyway, whatever, I'm gonna leave that alone, you know. You know, Queen died, everybody just fell apart. You know, but TMZ killed Lil Wayne hella times.

• 30:05Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  You know? Like, he's important to us, like the Queen is important to y'all. But y'all didn't cancel Harvey. You know, in fact, the same black people who, who say Wayne is their god will still be the same black people to call TMZ to say, "Come shoot me coming out of the Ivy." You know, we have this weird thing that we have to figure out with ourselves of how do we protect our people? How do we control our narratives? How do we participate in narratives that aren't true? But then I also get challenged with, but aren't you a part of it? Because you have the platform that drives these conversations. So I always say, look, who's to blame? The people doing the mess? The people like me that are profiting from it? Or the people like you that can't consume enough of it? We're all a part of the mess. So let's just stop calling each other messy and just live. But yeah, I think when it comes to mainstream media, Us Magazine,

• 30:49Speaker 01

  because it's pretty and pink and they're, they're doing the same thing I'm doing. But that's where I went back to my original values that I established in life, was saying, "Fuck it, fuck it." That's what you think I'm messy, cool. That's what your thought. I just have not really participated in that because I, I learned a long time ago, I cannot control what people think. You know, the same people that say I'm messy. Or say that Beyonce was running from me at a brunch of the same people that can never get in a room with Beyonce. Like, you can't even afford a ticket to her concert. The only beehive you know is probably one in your grandma backyard. But guess what? I'm in the rooms. But I'm in the rooms for them. You know, and that's the part that I can't reconcile with is that I really am the person that's in the room as a fan of the culture,

• 31:34Speaker 01

  a fan of pop culture, a fan of celebrity culture, for them. I went to the same party you all were at. You know, y'all got in a fight on the red carpet.

• 31:42Channing Crowder?

  Hey, hey, hey, hey, we not talking about that.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  This is loud disagreement. You know. Y'all some big dudes too. I don't want no smoke. I, you know, people need to choose the right place, right people, right time. That wasn't it. But, you know, I went to that party and in that party, I had to walk up to Lil Baby to say, hey, I know that, you know, I've been trying to interview you. I want to tell you to your face how much I respect you. I want to tell you to your face, I love what you're doing with your platform. I'm also the same person that revealed he had a relationship with Sweetie. And I also interviewed his baby mom. So I know he probably has his own thoughts. But we were able to have a conversation. He was like, y'all really with you. Like, I want to come on the show. Then I walked over and saw Drake, who I've known from before he was even a rapper, who I have a great relationship with, who just told me how proud he was of me. And I say, hey, man, can't wait to get you on the new show.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  And he turned to me and said, man, I ain't fucking with that. In public. I was like, this is not the Drake that I know. But I, but I was aware there were so many people dick riding him at the party that he probably forgot that I really know him as a real human being. And I'm not a dick rider. So I said, well, okay, well, all right, Drake, well, or Aubrey, have a great day. You know, that was some weird shit. I haven't talked to him yet. I do want to talk to him. I'm sure you'll see it. It was crazy, but I want to be popular. I am popular. I've just not always liked, and that's okay.

• 32:58Fred Taylor?

  Maneuvering through the, let's call it the messy media maze.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:04Fred Taylor?

  I'm sure it, it wasn't easy, but people look at you and they see, you know, the glitz and glamour and what you're doing over at Hollywood Unlocked. Most people think it can be easy, but I'm sure it's challenging. The nose you received throughout your journey. Do you try and shit on those people?

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:22Ryan Clark?

  I'm so glad he didn't lie, though. He was about to lie.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Y'all do it too, don't you? Let me stop here, man, sir. Let me stop. You know, I shit on him with success. When I went out first to talk to people about investing in my vision, and they rejected me, I see them out now, and when they say, "Oh, my God, I always knew you were..." I stop them and I say, "No, you didn't. You absolutely did not believe in it. In fact, you told me to abandon my dream. You told me to go be something else. You told me there was no room in the space for me." So I hold them accountable in a very personal, very transparent way, like, "No, you didn't believe in me. It's okay." You know, now that I have the Jason Lee Show, and we're over at Revolt, and we're getting millions and millions of views and impressions, whatever, now people say, "Hey, do you want to interview my client?" No, that's not a conversation that I'm motivated to have right now. You know, because unless I can start the conversation with, "It's great that you finally showed up," and we can have that conversation,

• 34:10Speaker 01

  then this is probably not the show for them. But no, I don't need to prove anything to anybody, because what I'm challenged with every day when I wake up is, how do I continue to prove to myself that I could be better? You know, how, right now, the level of restraint that I'm showing in not going online, and saying things about people that I want to, because it will make me feel better for people to know what I know. But then, at the same time, it may scare the people that don't know all the background, that they may think that I'm still that person that they once thought I was. So I'm just fighting with myself and proving to myself, not necessarily other people, but I do rub it in their faces with success and access, like releasing Rihanna's baby photos. I released the baby photos, then I flew from Dubai and went to the Vice President's house, and all of black media was there for a Christmas party, and everybody's whole thing was,

• 34:55Speaker 01

  "How did you get it? How did you get it? How did you get it?" I said, "She called me and she gave them to me." I said, "The question you should be asking you is, why she didn't give them to you?" Because the same person that you know, or think you know, is the same person she know. And I think the reason is because she trusted me, and at the top of her mind, when she knew somebody was gonna release her baby photos without her permission, she thought of me. And that's because I work hard to be real to people, whether, you know, they choose to participate or not, that's on them.

• 35:22Channing Crowder?

  Isn't it a conflict of interest, your friend list and what you do? Because of the fact that, like, Lairs of Pippin?

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:31Channing Crowder?

  She call you and say, "Hey, I'mma date this lil' baby." You already know, even if you agree or disagree, you're gonna take your friend's side. I would assume this. Like, do you treat your friends the same way? Because there's, your friend list, I got some messy situations. I come at you and be like, "Boy, if you a real friend of this lady, you'll tell her, 'Stop chasing around these damn babies.'"

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay, I have a response to that. Uh, one, do my friends drive high, do what I do? No. So like, I'll give you an example. When Floyd and 50 got into that whole, "He can't read" thing. I know Floyd. I've been on the set with him when he's read for Showtime or done scripting or whatever, you know. Do I think that Floyd is running around with a bag full of Maya Angelou books? No, but neither am I. Can he read? Yes. And if you can't read and can make a billion dollars, motherfucker, I wanna give up reading today.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Okay? Because the Reading Rainbow ain't never did nothing for nobody that his career's done for him. But I still had to write about what 50 said. And I called Floyd, "You know, I'll put this out there. He knows, but then he'll go do his shit and then I'll put out what he says, you know? I'll go have dinner with 50 and say, 'Man, I don't know why y'all not getting along.'" And then turn right around and praise him for his show on Starz and then go right over and post whatever he's going through with, you know, the people he's going through. No, this is the thing I'm dealing with right now and I'm glad you asked that question. I don't want no more celebrity friends. Like, if you're a celebrity, I do not want to be your friend because the people who happen to be celebrities that are my friends understand my job. It's sort of like if Cardi, when Cardi B put out a song that I didn't like. I had to tell her, "I don't like that song."

• 37:07Speaker 01

  She had to be able to eat that, just like I have to be able to eat when I write a story and she call and say, "I don't like that story you wrote." Well, you did your best to make that song and I did my best to make sure my team wrote that story. Maybe we felt a little short, that's okay. But my job is easier to be villainized because I'm black and I'm gay and I'm in media. That's just what it is. But no, let's go to Larson. I know many men who've dated a lot younger women. I think that the reason why 72% of my audience are female is because they understand the double standard. They understand that they live in a world where a bunch of white men are taking votes on whether or not they can have babies or not. We live in a world where women are often told that if they have 10 sexual partners,

• 37:50Speaker 01

  they lose value, and a man having 10 sexual partners gives them value. So I tend to be a little bit more objective in reporting that, not because of Larsa. I told Larsa when she started dating the guy,

• 38:03Speaker 01

  "You sure?" Not because of his age, but because of who he was, because of his father and her relationship with Scotty. So we had that conversation. But she also called me to say, "I'm taking a beating online, huh?" I said, "Yeah, you are, and we gonna keep posting it."

• 38:20Speaker 01

  And she never says anything. You know, she understands my job. I've also interviewed her about her divorce with Scottie Pippen in Scotty's house, when Scotty walked in the door as I'm asking the question. Door opens, Scotty's like, "Hold on, we gonna take a break." And, "Big," you know. But, you know, I think that there's a lot of ways to look at that. Can I look at that and say, "Your son's in the NBA, and he's on a team with Malik Beasley, who you're with, and now you're dating Michael Jordan's son, who was the son of a person that your ex-husband, their father, was on a team with? This some Real Housewives of Miami shit, which he's on the show." I said, "Lean into it." Because if you're gonna do it and take the hit for it, lean. I did a call with her and him after Tamara Hall's messy-ass interview and said, "Lean into it."

• 39:05Speaker 01

  Because if you're gonna take the beating, y'all need to launch a relationship book. I would launch a relationship podcast. I would be dressed alike, front row at a game. I would be letting him carry you through the subway. I would be fucking going viral. Lean into it. Give him something to talk about. Because they didn't say nothing about Melania laying up there with Trump, and she 30 years younger. Different rules apply to different people, whether it's racial groups, whether it's gays, whether it's women. And I say, "Look, if you are, however old she is, all your kids are growing up, you know, and all great kids, you're a great mom, and you want to get out there and..."

• 39:45Speaker 01

  Do your thing. And if a younger n*** does it for you, do your thing. And if an older n*** does it for you, do your thing. Do your thing. Shit, because I can't be selectively messy. If I'm gonna be talking about that, I gotta talk about some of these basketball players out here running around with these white girls at the strip clubs but married to their black queens. Come on now. Y'all don't want it? Don't get me started in here.

• 40:05Ryan Clark?

  That's why I'm thinking none of this.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Because that's why people get scared. Because once they start to say, "Well, don't you think that that's fair?" Then I start to go in a different direction that they didn't know, and it starts to pull everybody else in. The reality is that we all have mess. I have mess. And the mess is okay. We shouldn't run from it.

• 40:21Ryan Clark?

  My question is this, though. I'm in the sports media. As a black man in the sports media, there is a level of responsibility, I believe I put on myself, for the culture and to speak for people that look like me, that are going through certain things. And there's a responsibility that the culture puts on you, too. We can speak about the things that Tamara's done, or speak about these different things, and because you're reporting facts. What do you feel your responsibility is to build as well? To build up black women? To build up black culture? To not just talk about the stories that get the clicks, but the stories that people can

• 41:02Ryan Clark?

  look at and say, "Okay, this black man who happens to be gay, who happens to own Hollywood a lot, also is doing this to make sure the culture is preserved more so than tearing it down."

• 41:14Speaker 01

  I am now at a level of my career where I see the impact of my platform to where I'm not as reactionary as I used to be. You know, because I know that the perceptions out there, when I hear the perceptions, I'm a little bit more mindful of what I'm saying, but I don't let it completely direct how I do what I do. Because then I'm not staying true to my voice. I'm not staying true to what I believe. I got that from the work I did in the labor movement when I was representing healthcare workers, fighting for better patient standards and better pay. That they had their idea of what they needed in order to be better, and I had the task of going out and speaking for them, even in the midst of their organizations or the public saying that they already had enough. You know, if you think about it now, there are people in Florida that- Say black people have enough equality. We don't need to read about their history in the book classrooms.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Or we don't need to have all these voter right conversations because they can vote. They don't vote, you know? I don't, I don't really think about people's personal views when I say what I say or when we do what we do. I think about what I stand on and what I stand on is trying to be as true to fact as possible, trying to be as fair as possible, trying to get both sides of the conversation. So we do reach out to people to say, hey, by the way, this is getting ready to go out or this just came over to us to give me some context. And there's times that I've killed stories my staff want to do because I talked to the person or I'll see some, I'll say, well, why did you guys post this when you know I know the person? Let me call them and I'll get on the phone and call a person to, to verify. And I've deleted stories that I felt like my team was not fair, like that's not fair.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Or, or I'll see it and say like, we shouldn't go down that way. But I'm not in the business of like completely selling out to anybody because of the pressure. And they pressure me, you know, people say whatever they said or call me or whatever, or they're threatening to take a deal or something. But you know, now I think people are starting to really understand like we're not your enemy. We're literally saying what's out there and then having an opinion on it, but also welcoming you into the conversation. And the other thing is the culture needs to do some reconciliation with itself because we're the same people that can't wait to eat on our own. But then we turn around and say, oh, white folks ain't giving us nothing. Go build your own shit. Go build your own shit. Go collaborate with other black people like I'm black, y'all black, I'm here collaborating with you, you come on my show. It's about community. It's not about the haves and have nots.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  It's about the who want to go get it more and who don't.

• 43:28Ryan Clark?

  I hear that part of the conversation and I think you are showing that through your actions, right? By sitting here, by having whether it's black women, you know, Alarson Pippin, who's somebody's your friend on your show, you are trying to reach out and allow people to tell their story, which is what we want to do here as well. But when you've gotten the negativity throughout your career, does new information, does evolution ever come into play where it's not you selling out, right? It's not Jason saying, okay, I'm getting this pressure, so now I'm going to be different. Like sometimes you just. Learn a new way to go about business. Are you getting closer to that point? You know, you made the joke when we took a little break. Nah, I just started therapy.

• 44:13Ryan Clark?

  It ain't quite sunk in all the way. And that's why you getting what you getting. As you move forward, do you see things about the way you live, about the way you work being different as you start to learn more about yourself?

• 44:24Speaker 01

  When we did the Queen story and the Queen died, well, when she died on Hollywood Unlocked. I was in Miami, driving down Biscayne, and the internet was going crazy. Social media phones were blowing up or whatever. And I was just like, what is wrong with the people? And then they were attacking me from every country. And I just said, well, OK, well, since people are mad, let me just go ahead and double down. Like, what y'all talking about? I ain't never got it wrong. She dead. When I doubled down, it really went crazy, right? They really, these people wanted me dead. Called the Buckingham Palace and said, where's the Queen at? Is she dead? And they said, we can't confirm or deny. That's the dead to me. Because you call my house and say, is Jason dead? Nah, he upstairs in the jacuzzi.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  When somebody call your house, say, can I speak to so and so? And they said, I can't confirm or deny. If they're, what the fuck? That's just nonsense. So, once they said, we can't confirm or deny, she dead. So, I doubled down. They went crazy. Well, guess what? This reporter sent me an email. She caught me at the right time. I was getting on a yacht. Everybody thought I was somewhere in a dark room trying to kill myself. I was getting on a yacht, had my drink in my hand. This reporter caught me with a really nice email. She tricked me. I thought she was cool. So, I called her like, hey, BuzzFeed, you know, telling her what's up. She's messy as hell. Went and made this crazy story. So, I tripled down, you know? Three strikes and you out. What happened was, what I learned in that experience was to check your ego at the door. And it's OK to make mistakes if you fix them. But, you know, how you go about it and handle it is important.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  But I never felt like I need to pander to anybody's thought of who I am because I'm in control of my journey. And if everybody that's watched me from the beginning has seen the evolution, I'm still in my process.

• 46:04Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  But now, because I understand my relationships that are visible, I gotta think about, OK, I know who's connected to me now, and I know who people know I know. So, I gotta be very mindful in how I carry myself and who I share space with. But I've also tightened up my team. I've tightened up who has access to me. I'm not at all afraid of being controversial because honesty today is controversial. But when the Queen died, why weren't black people mad about the blood diamonds that her whole family has stolen and still have over there at the royal palace? That's what I'm saying to all these Africans who died slaughtered for jewels that come from our, the riches of our country, our motherland.

• 46:43Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now it's your time.

• 46:48Speaker 05

  We go V.

• 46:51Speaker 00

  We go V. Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Somemagnitide injection 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait? We go V.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Black Twitter wasn't worried about that. They just, oh, this, yeah, the queen, you don't even watch The Crown on Netflix.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  You don't even watch The Crown. Like, that's why I say it's the hypocrisy. That's why I don't invest in, when Black Twitter goes off, you know what I do? My team calls me, they go, hey, Black Twitter's dragging you. I go right over there to Black Twitter and be like, y'all. And then Black Twitter goes crazy, he ain't black, see, he ain't black. I may even throw it in there because I'm just gonna get y'all brought up because I'm still making money. I'm not even thinking about y'all. And I know some would say that's toxic, you're participating in toxicity. Well, sometimes there are days that I do feel like I'm gonna get on the ground and roll with the pigs. Today, not on Monday, because that's the day right after Sunday. That was the Lord's day, so Monday's still kinda lordish. I'm gonna do my paperwork, but by Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, right in time for the weekend, I'll roll around with you if you want to.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  We have this thing, we call ourselves almost famous, because we're not really famous. Yes, you are, because I'm in the gym and you on TV, you on tap, like, y'all are everywhere. We're at the fanatics party, we were working, you were being a celebrity. You were fighting. You know, and we, and I come in. See how you play with me, see how you trying me, stop playing. I know I'm scared to ask the question. I tell you, you know we doing TV. I ain't an athlete.

• 48:30Ryan Clark?

  Hey, so anyway, I come in, right?

• 48:34Speaker 01

  I'm an athlete.

• 48:35Ryan Clark?

  So I'm scared, I'm just gonna keep talking. So I'm, you know, I'm moving around, you've seen all these people and they're famous. And I say, okay, the one person I wanted to talk to, you behind the velvet robe, was Tiffany Haddish, right? So I was like, he's like, go ahead, like, come in, go say hello. So I'll walk over, I got my pivot jacket on, feeling really good about myself at the time, and I ask her to be on the show, which I hardly ever do. I don't just walk up to people and ask that. She has zero idea who I am. I'm talking about none. Like, she's really looking, she's like, like I had dookie on my face. But she was sweet and she was nice. So what I'm asking is, since you've now been on our show, just on our show, just say, cause she's your friend, Tiffany, this is a great show, like, you should do the show.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  But Tiffany would do the show, so I don't know what, I'll connect you.

• 49:20Ryan Clark?

  Thank you.

• 49:21Fred Taylor?

  In the midst of messy media, people can miss what you really do. You speak about community and the fact that you're giving back with the millionaire media unlocked.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yep, millionaire media unlocked.

• 49:33Fred Taylor?

  And what you're doing for, for people that are aspiring to be bloggers or have podcasts and teaching them how to be successful there, as well as your involvement with the Hollywood Cares Foundation. Speak how much you're involved in community in all your efforts and what you're doing.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, Media Millionaires Unlocked. The idea was, once I started growing and seeing how influenced, influential we became, and then the people that kind of like were at the top of driving culture, I'm like, yo, why are we the only people that do that? Like, why is it really the three? You know, we need to open this up, because I feel like the culture needs to have more of a voice, there needs to be more people that are out there doing it. And then when I was on my rise, I saw how hard it was to figure it out, and I just am somebody that wants to be able to see everybody win. So I created it to be able to allow people to find a source to invest in information that took me millions of dollars to figure out. And so, Media Millionaires Unlocked is something that I created, and yeah, it's doing well.

• 50:28Fred Taylor?

  And off camera, I asked you about therapy.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:31Fred Taylor?

  I'm in therapy, and it's my safe space. What led you to start therapy?

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Every time I would run into Charlamagne, he would be like, "Why you ain't smiling? You need therapy." I'm like, "Well, you judging me? You need therapy." You know, we would joke. And then Tiffany, you know, she got into therapy. And then we just, as friends, we all just be talking about therapy. And then I had written the book, God Must Have Forgotten About Me, and that allowed me to put all my pain in a book. Then I saw the reaction people were having to my stories and then going online and making videos about their own stuff, from coming out to dealing with molestation, whatever. I decided to lose weight to physically transform because I had done my micronutrient test and realized that I was prediabetic and had sleep apnea and had inflammation, different things. And I couldn't lose weight. I, my, my relationship with food was just, I just, when I was hungry, I just ate whatever I could eat. And then I started really looking at myself in the mirror

• 51:21Speaker 01

  and just trying to have a conversation with myself. But just even taking that type of personal time, my mind was always so full of what was happening in my career and people around me and trips and this and that, that I hadn't slowed down enough to really start to think about like, "Do you want to live for a while? Do you want to, do you want people to see you and actually see that what you look like, what you say, what you do, how you move, how you dress, how you, what community you build, that it all, there's a connection with it all?" And so then I started saying, "Okay, what does that look like?" So I did the micronutrient test, found out all the things wrong with me. And then I put a plan together. So I'm gonna go to the gym for a year. I'm gonna eat healthier for a year. I'm gonna stop drinking for a year. I'm gonna do all these things. And I did all that and I still couldn't lose weight. So I decided that I was gonna take matters in my own control,

• 52:06Speaker 01

  pulled a team of people together, found a really good doctor that one of my friends had used to have weight loss surgery, went and did that. But I went in with the mental mindset that I'm not going to be one of those people that go and do the procedure, gain all the weight back, you know, start going back to living my life the way I want. No, I have to literally change. So I cut out a lot of foods. I changed my consumption of alcohol. I changed my mental support group. And then I thought, okay, now that I physically transformed, now I need to explore this mental journey. Because when I met the therapist, I didn't even know he was a therapist. He got in the car with me and Tiffany at a party. He was this cool, happy guy. I'm like, that's my (bleep) happy. He said, where we going? I said, we're going to hell. And he goes, what? And I go, well, we're going to a gay club,

• 52:51Speaker 01

  but it's gonna feel like hell when you get there. So, yeah, here I am in hell at the abbey with Tiffany Haddish, all my gay friends, the strippers and everybody, and this happy man who's sitting there looking at me. But I didn't know he was really probably doing an evaluation of like how toxic I am, you know? And I mean, we got so fucked up. I don't even remember how he left. So my first session with him after, you know, Tiffany's like, oh, yeah, that's a therapist. You should call him. Whenever I called him, I said, okay, so you pretty much have been around me in a very intimate way, a very vulnerable way. You know, what you think? And he said, well, it's not about what I think. It's about what you think. And when I talk to Charlamagne or Tiffany or people who know you personally, they say all these great things about you. And when I see you talk about you online or when people talk about you online, you're very critical of yourself

• 53:35Speaker 01

  or they're very critical of you. He had read my book and everything. He knew everything. He said, how does somebody who survived, a drug addicted mother, abandoned, molested, watched his brother get killed, get shot, survived the streets of Stockton, become very successful, liked by the Rianas and the Tiffanys and the Floyds and all these people see himself the way you do to where you were communicated to the people who follow you because they like you and let people talk about you in a way that doesn't measure up with how everybody, who else sees you? I thought about that. And I said, well, you know, I start coming up with all these excuses. And he said, you really need to focus on your healing journey because the person that everybody sees you to be, you don't see you to be. And that was like the beginning of me really like holding people accountable when they try to label me a certain way.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  Not in a way of being defensive, but saying, hey, while I don't care completely how you see me, let me color in a little bit for you to have more context and then you can walk away and feel how you want. But also not letting those opinions rinse space in my head. Talking with him about self-love and value and, you know, what do you want your life to look like? Do you want a life partner? Do you want to invest in people? Do you want to stop abandoning relationships the way their relationships abandoned you? Because that, going back to fuck it again, I'll quick to be like, okay, you ain't on program? Okay, (bleep) you. Oh, you not with it? Okay, (bleep) you. I got a flight to catch. I got shit to do. I got money. I ain't worried about you. Fuck you. Fuck it. I'm learning that that's not good, you know? But the process of therapy requires you to really like, it's a level of patience that I'm still learning to get because you have to do the work.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  So I started journaling. I started writing my thoughts out, then going back and reading what I wrote. You know, trying to make everything line up. So I'm not perfect, but you know, I'm getting there.

• 55:12Channing Crowder?

  Is there a, almost like a Spider-Man, Peter Parker thing with you?

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:17Channing Crowder?

  Cause your job and what you do, like you come up and when you tell the story and your brothers,

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:22Channing Crowder?

  your brothers murder, like you're telling the story and it's just a fact.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:26Channing Crowder?

  But it has to, it, it doesn't bring any emotion out of it. When you talk about everything, it's in a certain way. You talk about your friends, you talk about your life, you talk about anybody, it's in the same way. Did you have to build a costume to wear over top of yourself?

• 55:37Speaker 01

  No.

• 55:37Channing Crowder?

  To do what you do because you just said it, like you criticize people, you judge people all the time.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:43Channing Crowder?

  But you can't have insecurities if you're, if you're throwing the rocks, you can't live in a glass house.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Well, I have insecurities and I, I mean, I got insecurities and I got shit too, but like, you know, I will say, I think my brother's death kind of numbed me to the point to where like, there's nothing that really hurts my feelings because they've already been destroyed, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not emotional, it's like I don't, I don't feel for people, I have compassion. Most people like me when they know me privately, but it's me letting you get that far with me because I don't handle betrayal well, you know? The most things that people have seen about me that have made people go, oh my God, is when somebody's tried it. Like you tried it, you said something crazy or you did something violent or you betrayed me and then I would personally deal with it publicly. There was the guy that was on your show, I don't watch sports, so I don't really know his name, but the, the guy who broke down crying.

• 56:28Channing Crowder?

  Michael Beasley.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  I watched that clip several times because we've all felt that way, I've felt that way, you know? I've not felt that way, the way that he did, that deep, that expressive, because I don't let me go there. I'm like, okay, you know, but I've felt that way and that's part of what I'm working on too in therapy. But yeah, no, the Peter Parker thing, I, I do feel like what you see is what you get in terms of our experience, whatever energy I try to follow, but do I let my guard down with everybody and show everybody who I am all the time? Nah.

• 56:58Channing Crowder?

  With all that's going on in your life, what is the moment you point to that created the most of Jason Lee? You know, you talk about your drug addicted mother and foster care, watching your brother be murdered, what was the one moment that you said, this is the way I have to be in order to cope moving forward?

• 57:23Speaker 01

  I always go back to credit that moment my brother died because, one, I was in a gay relationship that nobody knew about because I wasn't out. So I couldn't be comforted by my boyfriend who was standing there with me. So that was one. I'd never experienced pain to the point to where I couldn't even stand up anymore. You see people in the movies fall out and they crying and all that. And you'll be like, yo, they really acting their ass off. Like, that was the level of pain that that created. And then afterwards, I just had this real destructive spiral where I wanted to hurt anybody who ever hurt him. And we did a lot of really nasty things to people in our community. But then I just said, you know, like, I have a choice to decide which direction I want to go. I chose to honor him and what he believed in me for my life to do more for myself.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  So although I was trying to get a good job, I was still drinking heavily. I was working and doing a great job, but then I was also in the streets doing stuff. And then, once I started getting better careers and out of the streets, I still was heavily, heavily drinking and just became an alcoholic that, in my mind, I never wanted to be like my mom who was a drug addict. But didn't see alcohol as a drug, and I was [bleep] on that shit. I would work all day, drink and party all night, pass out, wake up, go to work. I was a functional. I mean, it was just a thing where it was normal. I normalized it. Coming out of that was realizing that, you know, what I fought hard to fight through, with him dying or surviving all the other things I went through, man, God blessed me with an opportunity to still be here.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  So I have to continue to work hard to be the best version of myself. So I guess for me, the wall that I put up, I mean, I put up different walls. I put up walls to keep certain people away. I put up walls to protect the things that I hold the most sacred. But there are people that I do let in, and those people I've been very smart about and have protected that.

• 59:08Channing Crowder?

  You said you don't like to leave with your sexuality.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:11Channing Crowder?

  And then you just said that you were in a gay relationship, but you didn't, at that point, you weren't out, so your boyfriend couldn't console you when your brother died.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 59:19Channing Crowder?

  Coming out, what was the decision made when you did come out? And I won't say hurt your career, but could you have been farther along if people thought you were straight right now?

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Well, I think there's a couple of things. One, I think that I live with the veil of being straight because I'm not what people perceive as to be gay, right? I don't lead with my sexuality, meaning like I didn't go into VH1 and say, "I'm gonna be dressed in rainbow every day with high heels and makeup on in a bag and nails and all that." And that's just, because that's just not my thing. That's just not what I'm interested in. I learned over the course of becoming famous or recognizable that I was given certain privileges that other people are not given. I was never called a faggot until, what, two, three years ago? Somebody tried it? And I was Jason Lee with Hollywood Unlocked that tried it. He was just drunk and it became a whole thing. Where, you know, they fixed that real quick, within 24 hours.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  But, you know, it was one of those things where like, this person slipped up and said something that people in my community have endured for years, that I've just never had that happen to me. I didn't want to lead with my sexuality, but I've always been proud of being who I am. And there was never really a coming out story. I never sat my family down and said, "Hey, by the way, I'm gay." Because I just feel like who I have sex with or who I'm sexually involved with is nobody's business. And what I, because I'm not walking around to people saying, "You straight? You straight? You straight?" "Oh, he's straight." There's no announcement made when straight people walk in the room. What I will say is that I think the way my family found out or actually heard the words come out my mouth was when I was on Love and Hip Hop. That was when I first, they first were sitting at their houses. And I remember I put them all in a group text, all my siblings, and I said, "By the way, you gonna hear some shit tonight. It's gonna be hilarious. Call me if y'all have any questions."

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  That was the text.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  So they're all watching because they watch it every week. And, you know, I had thrown the drink on somebody who had tried to out the person I was in a relationship with on television. And I knew it was coming and we're gonna be in the reunion talking about it. And so I said it at the reunion. "You know, I'm gay and I feel like them doing that was a way of outing somebody." And, you know, I looked at the group text and it was crickets. Nobody said anything, you know? One of my sisters, she called me, she said, "You know, we love you no matter what you say or what you do." She didn't say, "We love you even though you're gay." Which is cool, you know, because now it's just, it is what it is. So that was just now, once it was kind of out there after the people had gotten to know me online and stuff through the show, I just leave with who I am and, you know, I don't,

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  I don't publicize my relationships. I don't try to put everything, because I, I don't want to be treated like an ornament. I don't want to be treated or not seen for my business acumen or my, my brilliance and how I've been able to build and create things. I want to be respected as an entrepreneur. Not to say that you can't be if you're openly gay, but that's just not what I'll choose to leave with.

• 1:02:07Ryan Clark?

  My cousin, who I'm really close with, I was the first person that he told

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:02:12Ryan Clark?

  he was gay. And I felt like I always knew. And I was like, I don't care. Like, this is what it is, bro. And I didn't, I guess I didn't feel like I had to say, I love you even though you're gay, because to me, he always was.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:28Ryan Clark?

  When you have the crickets on the phone afterwards, was it because they already knew? Or did you feel like just at that point, it didn't really matter?

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  I think I have such a strong personality that people oftentimes don't really know what to say.

• 1:02:45Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  Because I will give you my opinion back very quickly, and I'm the same way with my family, as I'm with everybody else. I think that, well, one, I'm coming to Thanksgiving every year with a different pretty, like, you should know, like.

• 1:02:58Ryan Clark?

  But that's my point, though.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  It's the homie.

• 1:03:01Ryan Clark?

  Were you really hiding it?

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  It's the homie. But, I mean, come on. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, I'm sure they knew. I had a, I had a cousin, this funny story. One of my cousin's wives, she married into the family. You know, it's always the people that marry into your family that do more than your family. She would always come and say, let us pray. You know, Lord, we hope that Jason and his friend.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  You know, or she would ask me like. You got a girlfriend, you know? You know what you're doing. You know. But I just never, I said, no, I ain't got one. You know, I'm living my life. Me and my homies is out here hanging out, you know? And I felt like there was never a proclamation needed to be had. And I also feel like when your family know you, they know you.

• 1:03:40Ryan Clark?

  That's obvious.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? But there were times where I did have girlfriends. Like, I had girlfriends up until about 18. And then, you know, I pivoted.

• 1:03:48Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, for sure. When you look at what you've been able to create, which truly is, especially from a business and a branding point, absolutely phenomenal.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:04:00Ryan Clark?

  When you went about your business to say, this is what I want to do. This is who I am. And this is the way I'm going to go about doing it. How could you ever have envisioned it was going to be this? And now, how do you elevate? Like you said, you want to double it this year. What's the next step in elevating your business to a point we haven't seen media of your genre be?

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  I always knew I was gonna be great because I had a fire in me to prove to myself that I'd be great. I never do anything that feels like a job or it feels like it's not gonna be great. I've never taken on a job I wasn't passionate about. When I worked at a pizza place, I was passionate about making pizza. I wanted to work at the pizza place. I just, I love pizza and I wanted to know how to make pizza. And I was the best pizza maker for about six months. But then I got fired from that job. And then, I went and found every other career that I was passionate about. I was passionate about education and wanted to understand how kids of color had access to the same information as other people. And so I wanted to be in there and learn that. Then I wanted to work at probation because I felt like as a person who'd survive the streets, that what are y'all doing in there to help these kids?

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  There needs to be people with a heart in there. And I went and understood that that was, that institution is a business. So I left there in a very crazy way. They fired me because I took on the county on how they were handling kids. And then, when I took on the county, the union saw me and said, you need to come work for the union the way you fight for people. And then I found a job that let me fight for the underdog and paid me great money to do that and did that for 11 years. But then I got to a point where I wanted to, I had my own dreams, my own passions, my own purpose. And I felt like I would not be able to do that working for somebody else. So in order to do that, I needed to find freedom. What was I the most passionate about? I love tech, I love the dot com, I love the social media world, I love celebrities. So I put it all together and I figured out. Through trial and error, how to build a foundation.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  Once I built a solid foundation, then I started looking at the different walls. So, wall one was, how do I build a podcast, a platform where I can control my voice? Wall two was, how can I partner with a company to expand that and go get their audience? Wall three was, what other platforms can I use like this one? And I invite you online to share community. And then from there, like, what's the next wall? What are the other temple things I can build to elevate us in the branding world? In the events world, in the different spaces that exist within the ecosystem of entertainment and media? And then, you know, I started, once I built all my walls, I started saying, well, damn, I built the house, but I don't want no ceiling. Because there's no ceiling to what I can do. I'm gonna keep going, keep growing, keep collaborating, keep innovating.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  And so, now, instead of putting the roof on what I built, we're just adding more floors to it. And continue to elevate until that final day I do put the roof on. And that'll be when I exit and sell it to somebody and then go, you know, trot around the world and live my best life.

• 1:06:50Channing Crowder?

  It's funny you say that, that was my next question. Because you said, I got 10 years left for this. I don't know if you're joking or not.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  10, 10 max.

• 1:06:58Channing Crowder?

  10 max.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  But I'm hoping 5 to 7. I have a 5 to 7 year exit plan right now.

• 1:07:03Channing Crowder?

  So, let's say 11 years. Let's say it's a long, the long game. At 11, 11 years from now, where are you business-wise, where are you personal-wise?

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Okay, 11 years from now, I will go on record to say I will be retired from what I am doing. That is my goal. 11 years, I will be 56. Yeah, 56, 57, I want to be retired from this part of the business. I want to invest, I want to create other things, I want to do philanthropy. Yeah, 5 to 7 years is really my goal. And, I mean, I'm working really, really hard to reach that goal. Because, you know, in many ways, this is exciting. I love what I do. And like I said, I don't want to do anything I'm not excited about. I'm still excited about it. But, it does come with a price. When I told Floyd, I'll go back to Floyd again, who's my mentor. I called him one day and I was really excited. This big, powerful Hollywood producer who everybody knows.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  Met with me for an hour and a half to ask me questions about my business because he wanted to create a show with me. And then he took all those ideas and went and created his own show without me. But I was so excited about this meeting that I had that I called Floyd and he looked at me very disinterested and he was like, and I'm like, yo, you're not excited for me? Like, I'm telling you that. And he said, I'll be excited when you realize that you're the Floyd Mayweather of media. And if you just continue to work hard and stay dedicated and become obsessed with what you're doing, you're gonna be at the top. And, and I thought I was obsessed, so I had to go back and really evaluate my obsession. And then I became obsessed. So my whole mantra now is if I'm awake, I'm working. If I'm awake, I'm working. There's no days off. There's no break. There's no... There's still a balance, of course. You know, I do know how to pace myself.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  But, but I'm so obsessed with the build of what I'm doing that when they did the story that we raised the money and we got a $50 million valuation, I spent one minute saying, oh, my God, I'm proud of myself. And the next minute, I was like, how do we get to 100? How do you get to 200? What's the 500 million dollar mark? And then what's that billion dollar thing that's going to make this something to where the buyers come to the table and I can gracefully exit and go live my life? And literally be completely done with having an opinion.

• 1:09:03Channing Crowder?

  What about personally? You stay on business now.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  That's why I'm a therapist before. Because that balance I have not figured out. Because it's really hard. Like, you know, I meet somebody and they tell me, well, I don't have the money you do. So, well, what that mean? What, what does that mean? You don't have the money I have. Okay, well, if that's the measuring point, then we probably should just stop talking because you're not gonna catch up.

• 1:09:20Channing Crowder?

  You ain't gonna find nobody that can like that. I'll tell you now.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  Well, I'm gonna tell my...

• 1:09:24Channing Crowder?

  It's over for you, Jason.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  You know what my therapist told me to do? I said, man, I think it's time to settle down. I'm gonna have a kid this year. I should probably... So, he said, well, why don't you just go on your social media and say you're looking for a life partner? And I said, that's fucking desperate. I ain't doing that.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  Then I joined Hinge. What they do, block me because they said it's a fake profile. I can't even join the app. So at this point, wait, a lot of athletes watch this show. Hit me in my DMs. Slide right now. I won't say nothing. Kelly Oubre, try to date you. You ain't got a girl. I don't know what to do.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  You can put this out. Serge Ibaka is like my brother. Me and Serge and Tiffany walk in a party during Fashion Week and I had been posting Kelly. And I'm not even like the thirsty type of person like to be posting shit on my social media because I feel like that's real gay, right?

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  Y'all can laugh at this.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  I laughed. You all have permission to laugh at gay jokes.

• 1:10:18Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate it.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  And gay people, we need to stop being so judgmental. Like, we need to allow people to learn our journey. Because, you know, I see y'all be... People are so afraid to say shit to gay people. I'm like, damn, y'all need to have... Anytime y'all have a gay addition in the pivot, you need me to pull up? I'll ask all the gay shit. Because y'all not gonna learn until we have a conversation. But anyway, me and Serge, Tiffany, we walk in the party. And I had been posting Kelly Oubre, you know, because I believe in manifestation. I manifested everything I had. I manifested happiness. I manifested my business. So I said, I'm gonna manifest Kelly Oubre. You know, I put him on my social media every day. I walk in this party, me and Serge are walking through it, and as soon as we walk in, I see Kelly Oubre. And I go, "Oh, shit." And Kelly turns around, he goes, "Ay, my [bleep], I ain't gay.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  I love that you gay, and I love that you love me, but not in that way. I'm cool, I love you, but I'm not with it." I said, "Damn, [bleep] couldn't have said hello."

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  But he was a good sport about it. Then he went and got a relationship with a girlfriend. So now I'm like, "Fuck Kelly Oubre."

• 1:11:19Ryan Clark?

  Hey, you shot your shot.

• 1:11:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I shot my shot. And with that, man, that's the end of this episode of The Pivot, y'all.

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:11:27Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate you, y'all.

• 1:11:30Ryan Clark?

  I love you, brother.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  You funny as hell, man.

• 1:11:57Speaker 05

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:12:07Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Some Maglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?