Big Fish In A Small Pond, LIV Golf, And Financial Freedom

Shaan Puri (@ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (@TheSamParr) talk about the value of being a big fish in a small pond, Saudi Arabia's version of the PGA that's luring players away, what financial freedom actually means, and Camp MFM. ----- Links: * LIV Golf * Pedal Tavern * The Peak * Do you love MFM and want to see Sam and Shaan's smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. * Want more insights like MFM? Check out Shaan's newsletter. ----- Show Notes: (02:05) - Hitler on drugs (07:40) - FL math teacher creates winning team (14:25) - Big fish in a small pond (19:40) - Interesting companies (23:05) - LIV golf (31:15) - What's the price to make it big / Twitch story (44:40) - Altruistic jobs (53:15) - What is financial freedom ----- Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. ----- Additional episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto * #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Shaan Puri?

  Have you heard of this thing called Liv Golf? I think it's called Liv. I don't know how you pronounce it. L I V.

• 0:06Sam Parr?

  No, what's Liv Golf?

• 0:09Shaan Puri?

  Liv Golf. Okay, so.

• 0:12Shaan Puri?

  You know about the PGA Tour. It's like the the main, it's like the NFL.

• 0:15Sam Parr?

  Tennis thing.

• 0:16Shaan Puri?

  Right?

• 0:18Shaan Puri?

  No, golf.

• 0:21Shaan Puri?

  So. So Liv Golf is a competitor to the PGA that just emerged.

• 0:26Sam Parr?

  Oh, the Saudi Arabia thing.

• 0:28Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. It's a Saudi backed rival. And these guys are basically trying to. It's like they're trying to spin up a new league by brute force. They're investing hundreds of millions of dollars. I think they pledged. Yeah, me too. Big, big swing. So this is not, this is the opposite of SPS, right? So this is a B D E. Yeah. So so basically, they they put the Saudi Public Investment Fund put in, they pledged $400 million to start the league. I think they've even committed more than that now.

• 0:56Sam Parr?

  I thought they offered Tiger Woods like 500 million or something crazy.

• 1:01Shaan Puri?

  News came out, yeah, they offered him $800 million and he said no. Which is like just kind of an insane thing. So but they have signed other huge stars, so Phil Mickelson. Uh, you know, Dustin Johnson, this guy, you know, Brooks Koepka or whatever, who who recently won the the, he won like four majors or whatever. Cameron Smith, who's like this young star, he signed a $100 million deal. Dustin Johnson, $125 million deal. Phil Mickelson, $200 million deal. They offered Tiger and didn't get him yet.

• 1:36Sam Parr?

  All right. What's going on, dude?

• 1:39Sam Parr?

  How are you?

• 1:40Shaan Puri?

  Fantastic.

• 1:41Sam Parr?

  So I have something that I've been thinking about, that I've been wanting to talk to you about. I started, um, have you ever seen that video of Adolf Hitler at the Ber-? At, uh, the German Olympics in 1936? When he's watching the Olympics and he's like rocking back and forth. Have you ever seen that?

• 2:03Shaan Puri?

  Bro, you can't be blond haired, blue eyed and coming on here, starting off saying, have you ever seen my favorite video of Hitler?

• 2:09Sam Parr?

  No, no, no, have you ever seen that video?

• 2:11Shaan Puri?

  We're trying to go up the charts, bro. We're trying to go up.

• 2:13Sam Parr?

  Have you ever seen that video of him like, so he's like, basically, there's this video that I saw a couple of weeks ago where he's at the Olympics and he's rocking back and forth and he's very clearly on drugs, like some type of coke or something like he's on drugs. And I started getting curious about it and I started looking into this. And someone in the comments said that there's this really good book called Blitz. So I bought it. It's right here. It's called Blitz and basically it's a, it's called Blitz Drugs in the Third Reich. So basically, after reading it, Hitler and a ton of the Nazis, as well as just a ton of Germany, starting in the 1930s, like morphine, heroin and meth was invented and they used to think that it was like a miracle drug. Doctors were like, take this meth.

• 2:57Sam Parr?

  It makes you feel great. Um, it's like this, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a miracle drug. Like you get euphoria. You want to stay up all the time. You'll eat less. It's this wonderful drug and like it was a legal drug that Bayer, you know, B A Y E R, the drug company now. They were like selling this shit and they would even put it in chocolates and there was like a chocolate that you would eat that had a little meth in it. And it was like always satisfied or something like that. And like, it was so common. And turns out Hitler was a junkie. He was getting injected with meth for years. And that's one of the reasons why, you know, like when they were getting bombed the very last minute, he was like, oh no, we're doing great. Because he had like these like, you know, he was like hallucinating, you know, he had like thoughts of grandeur, the typical meth shit. And I started thinking about this.

• 3:40Sam Parr?

  What other stuff in history was supposed to be one way and be happening like one time? But it turns out it was for a totally other reason. And I started looking into it. So for example, Henry the eighth, he was the, you know what Protestants are?

• 3:54Shaan Puri?

  No, I've heard that word a thousand times.

• 3:58Sam Parr?

  I knew you wouldn't know.

• 3:59Shaan Puri?

  Protagonist?

• 4:00Sam Parr?

  No, so like, there's like the Catholics, and then there's the Protestants. It's basically like, if you're like, an evangelical Christian, if you're a Baptist, if you're like, all these other different types of Christian religions, you're probably a Protestant. Maybe by definition, you are. Anyway, someone came up with it, like Martin Luther came up with it, and, and in the 1500s, the King of England, he basically like, had like, eight divorces because he couldn't have a kid. Like, it was, it was him, he was infertile, and the Pope was like, hey, you can't have these divorces anymore, this is bullshit. And he's like, no, fuck that then, we're gonna switch to Protestant, because that allows like, you know, me to get a divorce, and I can have all these kids. And so now, like, there's a billion Protestants in the world, because he just turns out, like, wanted divorce.

• 4:40Sam Parr?

  And then like, there's this like, there's this like, story that, you, you, you ever know how Barcelona people say Barcelona, really funny, like, Barcelona?

• 4:49Shaan Puri?

  With a lisp, yeah.

• 4:49Sam Parr?

  Yeah, there's like, this urban myth that the King of Spain had a lisp, and someone's like, hey, you know it's pronounced Barcelona? And he goes, no, from now on, it's Barcelona, because, you know, that's just how I say it, that's just...

• 5:05Shaan Puri?

  My first million.

• 5:05Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 5:09Sam Parr?

  It's like, you know, have Mike Tyson rule the world.

• 5:14Sam Parr?

  And just thinking about like, what other stuff did we think that was gonna be like, you know, was for this like, grand reason? But it's really just like, you know, like, the guy's dad said something like, like George Bush invading, like, you know, looking for weapons of mass destruction, because like, his dad was like, you know, you're not strong like your brother. And like, or, you know?

• 5:35Shaan Puri?

  Because he couldn't find the remote one time, now he's got this complex.

• 5:38Sam Parr?

  Or he had this like, leftover like, mission accomplished banner, he's like, well, we gotta do something with it. You know, like, what else, like, what else in history has been done, just for like, totally the opposite reason?

• 5:49Shaan Puri?

  I don't know, but I bet there's so much like I think about this with food all the time when I see, oh, you know, uh, you know, people are like, oh, you know, that the active ingredient in Advil or aspirin comes from this like oak tree and like blah, blah. I'm like, yeah, how do we figure that out? Like, who was just gnawing on trees and was like, you know, this one, I had a headache earlier and now I don't have it anymore. Right? Like all foods was like, oh, this one kills you. This one's good for you. It's like, uh, okay, but like, you know, who were the testers? Who was figuring this out along the way? I actually think that that was probably like, what's the most fun time to be alive? Was then when nothing, when no one knew anything about anything. Like you didn't know what

• 6:31Shaan Puri?

  was food and what was not food. Like how much just random soil has been eaten by somebody being like, this has to be food. And then somebody else is like, you know, sees a chicken running by is like, no, I think under that feather, under those feathers, there's something there, there.

• 6:45Sam Parr?

  Dude, there's all kinds of good stories like that.

• 6:47Shaan Puri?

  And I never research it.

• 6:48Sam Parr?

  So like, have you heard about like the invention of LSD?

• 6:53Shaan Puri?

  No.

• 6:54Sam Parr?

  The guy, uh, he was a European doctor. He was trying to like,

• 6:57Shaan Puri?

  He was a doctor, right?

• 6:58Sam Parr?

  Yeah. He was just trying to make like, uh, I forget what it was, but some type of antibiotic, like just something normal. And he got a little bit of the shit in his skin, like he like touched it funny. And he was like, oh my God, this is awesome. And then he like starts tinkering with it even more. And he goes, all right, let's try this. And he gives himself a huge dose and he starts running home on his bicycle. He's like, nothing's happening. Like this didn't work. And then all of a sudden it hits him and he like has the biggest trip of his life. And then you like, you know, it changes everything.

• 7:24Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I feel like penicillin, there's a whole bunch of drugs that were discovered by, by accident for sure. Um, yeah, it's, it's, I don't, I mean, I don't know where you want to go with this topic, but

• 7:35Sam Parr?

  I don't want to go anywhere. I just thought it was interesting. This book, like I'd just been reading this book about drugs and like the Nazis. And I was like, it's crazy. Like the book says that they, at the time, and then 30s and 40s, when World War II was happening, that something like 60% of German doctors were addicted to morphine. And they're the ones like, you know, voting on what the laws were going to be around, you know, how these controlled substances are handled. It's, it's, it's crazy. It changed my persp- well, it didn't change my perspective, but you know what I mean? It's just like a, an interesting read.

• 8:06Shaan Puri?

  Let me tell you a interesting story. Have you heard about this math teacher in Florida?

• 8:13Sam Parr?

  No, no.

• 8:16Shaan Puri?

  These stories can go one of two ways.

• 8:17Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Yeah, was he on Dog the Body Hunter? I've not, I mean, this could go a bunch of different ways. Yeah. Is there a funny like viral video of him in a 711?

• 8:28Shaan Puri?

  No, so get this. So, so Brandon was telling me about this. This is kind of amazing. So there's this guy, okay, so you know, like, um, you know, there's like, kind of like school competitions, whether it's spelling bee or math competitions or whatever. So there's this math competition and there's this kind of strange thing going on where one small school, it's not a private school, has won like 15 out of the last 17 of these math competitions. And people were like, God, what is going on at like Buckholz High School? And the story is kind of amazing. So there's this guy, Will Fraser. He's a, he starts as a banker on Wall Street and he's doing like bond trading or something like that. And the guy's, you know, this is like in the eighties. He's like, you know, this is the heyday of, of where, you know, you've ever read those books

• 9:13Shaan Puri?

  like liars poker and things like that. It's like the heyday of Wall Street, people making tons of money. He retires by 27. So he's made a bunch of money. He's like, dude, this is too stressful of a lifestyle.

• 9:24Sam Parr?

  How much should he make?

• 9:25Shaan Puri?

  I don't want to do this anymore. I don't know exactly how much he made, but enough to retire at 27. So let's assume it's, you know, like, I would say 10 million at least.

• 9:32Sam Parr?

  Okay.

• 9:32Shaan Puri?

  That's my guess. So he buys a Ferrari. He drives down to Florida. He's like, just dreaming of like a slower, calmer life. He's like, you know what? I'm just going to go to Florida, bought this Ferrari. I'm gonna just play a bunch of golf, play a bunch of basketball and I'm just gonna hang out.

• 9:45Sam Parr?

  Do Ferrari shit?

• 9:46Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. For, for a decade, he's, you know, that guy you see on like Tuesday at 1pm, just like hanging out at the park and you're just like, how you don't have a job? Like what's going on? He's that guy and he does it for 10 years, no income, 10 years, he's just chilling. And he plays a bunch of golf and along the way, he's sort of like, yeah, you know what? Like, I'm feeling a little aimless, don't have a great purpose in my life at this point. So he's like, uh, he reaches out to a local high school and he's like, hey, um, can I teach golf over there? They're like, ah, sure. And he comes over and teaches golf. He was like, I like teaching, actually, even on Wall Street, I actually, I liked teaching the young guys. So he's like, um, what, what else? Can I teach like a finance class? You know, I'm a former Wall Street guy, made it big, retired. Can I teach you finance? No, we don't have finance, but uh, you can become a math teacher if you want.

• 10:32Shaan Puri?

  And he's like, all right, I'll do it. And so he goes, he becomes a math teacher and he walks in on day one and he's like, listen, let me tell you this right now. I don't need this job. You guys, you guys gonna be any shit? This will be my last day. And they're like, okay, uh, you don't respect. And so he gets one day, he's like checking his mailbox as a teacher and he sees this math competition coming up. He's like, oh, like, that's cool. Let's try this. So he enters into the math competition. They go there and they get smoked. They get fifth out of sixth place. So they're second to last. And, um, and he's like, dude, I couldn't even solve some of these problems. Like this was hard. But like the flip, you know, the switch got flipped. The competitive switch in him gets flipped. And he's just like,

• 11:13Shaan Puri?

  actually, I liked that competition. I've missed the competition of Wall Street where it was just like completely doggy dog and you're like high intensity. And so he decides to do it again and again and again. And he, and he, he, he goes and they get fifth the next time and they get third. And so on and so forth. And he basically decides that we are going to dominate these competitions. And that's exactly what's happened.

• 11:37Sam Parr?

  Dude, isn't that the best where like?

• 11:39Shaan Puri?

  Fifteen out of seventeen.

• 11:40Sam Parr?

  The fifteen of seven, isn't that the best when someone just like sees like a small opportunity and they're like, no one takes us as seriously as we're going to take this. Let's do it. You know what I mean? I love that.

• 11:49Shaan Puri?

  That's exactly what.

• 11:50Sam Parr?

  Just like that cheerleading movie that we watched, uh, on Netflix that it's like, they just like take it. Yeah. They take it to the, the, the highest degree.

• 11:57Shaan Puri?

  Discovered?

• 11:58Sam Parr?

  Yeah. The one that you made popular.

• 12:01Shaan Puri?

  So the, so the guy, so people are like, dude, what's your secret? What are you doing differently? Blah, blah. He's like, oh, I just took a different level of intensity. He's like, it's just insane hard work. He goes, you know, um, average math teacher gets 72 hours of classroom time with their students per semester. Um, and then they hope that after school, some of those kids come and they learn for an hour, uh, you know, once a week or whatever. That's what they're putting in. He goes, oh, I just switched it. First I took all the good math kids. I put them in the same class, kind of like almost like, you know, the like blended of age. But he's like, I put all the best people in the same class that they would compete with each other. Then we used our class time to start preparing for these competitions. Then I started creating summer camps where we could get 80 hours in four weeks.

• 12:44Shaan Puri?

  So the equivalent of a full semester of teaching in this high intensity thing is like, and I just developed a program. Cause they're like, are you the best at math? He's like, no, I don't even teach the advanced math stuff. Like one of my former students teaches like the hard stuff. I just build the program. He's like, I put the high school students with the middle school students. And that, because the middle school students sort of idolize the high schoolers and they teach down. And then the, the, the middle schoolers rise up. He's like, so I built this program where one alumni, basically like the older kids teach the younger kids, the younger teach kids, it's even your, teach the even younger kids. And we just put in way more time. He's like, then I started scouting like this is like, you know, Alabama football. So he'll go and he'll look at the scores of other schools and he'll find the high performing kids and he'll recruit them to his program.

• 13:27Shaan Puri?

  And then the reputation got built where they started winning. So now parents are coming inbound and being like, please take my kid. And he's like, we only have so many spots. I'm sorry. And so he's built this like talent pipeline. And not only that, they actually, the talent pipeline goes even further. Now companies like Mackenzie and the big banks, Wall Street, they come recruit from his high school, the big schools, Ivy League.

• 13:49Sam Parr?

  For interns and shit.

• 13:50Shaan Puri?

  Come recruit from his high school because they want his students now. So he built like a, a platform for where they can go, which helps him recruit even better students. And so.

• 13:58Sam Parr?

  Where'd you see this story?

• 13:59Shaan Puri?

  When COVID happened. What's that?

• 14:01Sam Parr?

  Where'd you read this?

• 14:02Shaan Puri?

  It's just like, I think that, so it's been in just like the local Florida news for a while. And then I saw something.

• 14:07Sam Parr?

  Yeah, but what were you doing?

• 14:08Shaan Puri?

  Brandon sent me an article.

• 14:09Sam Parr?

  Who's Brandon?

• 14:10Shaan Puri?

  No, he sent this article from the Wall Street Journal or something. It was like paywall. So I only got the first paragraph. I'm too cheap to pay for it. But I was like, oh, what's the story? And then I found all these local Florida papers that had, that had the, the rest. And so, um, they said like during COVID, they were like, oh, you gotta teach remotely. And he's just like, oh, okay. Yeah. We're gonna downgrade the intensity. He's like, hell no, I resign. And then he went to a church, rented out the church. It was like, hey, if you guys want to come and train here, we could do this. And a hundred 40 kids went and trained daily in his church during COVID. When everybody else was low, had to lower their intensity, he ratcheted it up.

• 14:46Sam Parr?

  How old is this guy now?

• 14:48Shaan Puri?

  So now he's like in his 60s and so he's been doing this now for like, you know, a number of years. So he was basically 27, he took 10 years off. So he's closer to 40, 10, 11 years off. And then basically from 40 to 60, he's just been dominating this one thing. Isn't this incredible?

• 15:04Sam Parr?

  This is incredible. This is incredible. I think there's a few things. One, just the intensity. Number two, I think sometimes if you pick, like, a lot of people, including me, we want to move to San Francisco, New York, LA, and try to become like a medium-sized fish in a big pond. I think there's so much to be said about being the best or a big fish in a little pond. And like, you can make a name for yourself and have a way better life. Like, this random dude is having so much more impact by creating a, being like, the guy for like, this very small math contest versus, you know, a rich, he's probably way more fulfilled than being just like another hundred million dollar banker.

• 15:43Shaan Puri?

  Dude, I, I want to get diagnosed with a bad case of SPS. I want small pond syndrome.

• 15:50Shaan Puri?

  Like, I, I am a huge believer in this. Dude, when I, so I lived in Houston, in high school, and Houston, I went to a big public school, 5,000 kids, and kids from all over Houston. And basically, I, my life was basketball. I loved basketball. And I remember a game in ninth grade, the varsity coach, I was on the ninth grade team, and I, you know, the the goal would be to someday be on varsity. The varsity coach, watching our game, and for some reason, I think I scored like, I had like two threes to start the game. And then all of a sudden, the most athletic kid on their team decided like, nah, this guy's not gonna like, see the hoop again. And he starts picking me up full court. Basically,

• 16:33Shaan Puri?

  like, from the moment I can move, this guy's like, in my shirt. And, you know, and I, I literally can't get by this guy. Like, I'm trying to go left, I'm trying to go right, I cannot get by this guy. And I don't know what to do. And I'm just basically like, getting frazzled. So, coach calls timeout, the, the coach calls timeout, the varsity coach walks into the huddle. And I think he's gonna give me this like, epic advice, maybe like that varsity advice, how am I supposed to get by this guy? And he just goes, you will never play varsity basketball.

• 17:00Sam Parr?

  Oh my god.

• 17:04Shaan Puri?

  Thanks, Coach Hollingsworth. And he's just like, if you can't handle this guy, you will never like, he's like, I thought you might be, and now I see no, as like some motivational thing.

• 17:14Sam Parr?

  Then he just gave you a whiff and walked away.

• 17:18Shaan Puri?

  Exactly.

• 17:20Sam Parr?

  Fucking nerd.

• 17:22Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. Like, hey, I'd like to report a bully.

• 17:25Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 17:25Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Now, is there a checkbox for faculty?

• 17:32Shaan Puri?

  But, but he was right. And in, in the Houston pond, I was nowhere near athletic enough to be whatever. Now luckily, my parents, my dad gets a job in Beijing. We moved to China in the 10th grade. I go to China. First day, I start playing basketball.

• 17:47Sam Parr?

  They asked for autographs.

• 17:49Shaan Puri?

  These kids don't get protein over there. These kids don't get protein. Everybody's scrawny. I'm blowing by everybody. Varsity coach walks over. He's just like, hey, what's your name? I end up being captain of the varsity team, you know, I got a girlfriend, like my life changed for the better. Like, everything got better because I caught SPS. I got small, small pond syndrome and I was able to go be a varsity player over there, captain of the team.

• 18:15Sam Parr?

  The captain of a football, of a football team in rural Alabama with 100 students. They live the life. Screw the big city. Live that life. You know what I'm saying?

• 18:26Shaan Puri?

  And there was a part of me, a foggy part of my memory that remembered like, you ain't shit.

• 18:32Sam Parr?

  Do the man they could squash that down.

• 18:34Shaan Puri?

  It quickly got washed away.

• 18:34Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 18:35Shaan Puri?

  It quickly got washed away and I forgot. And I thought, it became like, you're the shit. You're the shit. You're the shit. And that's what you want to do in life. This guy, this guy's doing it right. I actually have this dream too. I was like, I just kind of want to retire and coach high school basketball. Like, I think that would just be a lot of fun. And, and yeah, you know, this small pond thing, I think we're on to something.

• 18:56Sam Parr?

  I, I've thought about this for a long time. I thought about moving back to St. Louis for a minute, but my wife wasn't down. But I was like, dude, I could just be the man here. You know, I could buy a million dollar house and it would make the news. You know what I'm saying? Like, a million dollars in San Francisco or New York is a studio. But I was like, it would be, it would be one of the biggest purchases of the quarter. I would make the news. It would be awesome. But then I realized I, you know, I don't want to do that.

• 19:24Shaan Puri?

  I don't want to do that.

• 19:26Sam Parr?

  Bro.

• 19:26Shaan Puri?

  What else you got?

• 19:26Sam Parr?

  I got a bunch of-

• 19:27Shaan Puri?

  I have straight fire today if you want, if you want more.

• 19:30Sam Parr?

  I've got fire too, I think. Did you see what I have in there?

• 19:35Shaan Puri?

  Uh, no, I don't even have the thing open.

• 19:36Sam Parr?

  Oh, well, fuck. Um, well, you could screw-

• 19:40Shaan Puri?

  Give me one.

• 19:40Sam Parr?

  Well, okay, so I spoke to like a bunch of different companies this week and they gave me all their revenue, all their profit. And a few of them are interesting and I could just like bullet point and quickly go through a few of them. You want to do that?

• 19:56Shaan Puri?

  By the way, explain, why does somebody, yeah, why does somebody just give you all their revenue and give you all their profit as you say? Cause it sounds like A, unrealistic and B, like you sort of like tricked them, but that's not the case.

• 20:09Sam Parr?

  No, I said them, okay, so um, I've got this like uh, community that I'm running that I'm not gonna talk about yet. But it's like a CEO community and when they join, they tell me all types of interesting information so we could place them in the right group. And I messaged eight of them and I said, hey, can I talk about you on the pod? And can you answer these questions and am I allowed to reveal all of your information? Well, if I, am I allowed to reveal the information that you gave me? And they said, yeah, sure. So that's how I got it. So no- nothing like crazy.

• 20:40Sam Parr?

  Which one you want to do? All right, I got a couple of them actually.

• 20:43Shaan Puri?

  Give me the most interesting one first.

• 20:45Sam Parr?

  Let's do, uh, okay, well, here's one that's actually not on, I don't even think I put it on here. But have you ever seen those pedal taverns in um, like Nashville and Denver? It's like the bars that you like pedal with like a, they're honestly pretty obnoxious, but you know what I'm talking about?

• 20:59Shaan Puri?

  No, pedal what?

• 21:00Sam Parr?

  It's called a pedal tavern. So basically-

• 21:02Shaan Puri?

  Is it a bus like?

• 21:04Sam Parr?

  You've never see, I guess you don't like leave the suburbs of San Francisco, but in a lot of other cities, Denver, Austin, Nashville, like these like style cities. There's these things called pedal taverns. They kind of look like um, imagine a bar in the middle and there's eight people sitting on one side and eight people sitting on the other side. Now imagine that being on top of a four wheeled platform and you're pedaling that platform while you're drinking booze. You've never heard of that?

• 21:30Shaan Puri?

  But you're outdoors, right?

• 21:31Sam Parr?

  You're outdoors on the street.

• 21:33Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:33Sam Parr?

  So.

• 21:34Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it's like some party thing. Yeah.

• 21:36Sam Parr?

  The guy who created one of the first ones is in the group and his name's Pete and his business does, he bootstrapped it from nothing, just out of school. It's getting close to eight million a year in revenue and just the pedal taverns do about five million a year in sales, quite profitable, and they're using the profits to buy the real estate that their pedal taverns stay in overnight. That's a pretty interesting business. Let's see, another one is, have you heard of, um, let's find another one. Have you heard of, uh, you've probably never heard of this. So here's an interesting one. There's this business called The Peak. It's ran by this guy named Brett. So it's a daily newsletter. So it's just like The Hustle, Morning Brew, whatever, mostly bootstrapped only, and it's in Canada.

• 22:20Sam Parr?

  And so every day it gives you the news you need to know about Canada, Canadian news. Only a team of 10, 90,000 newsletter subscribers, not that much, and doing about three million in revenue with a million in profit. Pretty good business, a small team of 10, 90,000 subscribers, 53% open rate, 67,000 monthly podcast listeners. The guys were like kind of good writers, but not really that good. And they just started like writing and cold emailing people and hiring writers. And after two or three years, it's already at about two or three million in revenue.

• 22:55Shaan Puri?

  So what are they doing differently? Cause that's more revenue per subscriber than most, I think.

• 23:00Sam Parr?

  So.

• 23:00Shaan Puri?

  Is that right?

• 23:01Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's pretty good. But basically they just said that, uh, with in Canada, like there's not that many, there's not as many publications and B2B advertisers, software companies, they don't have that many places to advertise. And so these guys have just done a really good job of getting the banks, the telecommunications companies, B2B software companies, all these like high-end enterprise companies to advertise with them.

• 23:27Shaan Puri?

  Gotcha. That's pretty good.

• 23:30Shaan Puri?

  Okay.

• 23:31Sam Parr?

  We'll do one more.

• 23:32Shaan Puri?

  I want to tell you about a company.

• 23:33Sam Parr?

  Oh, fine, you can go.

• 23:34Shaan Puri?

  Okay. Okay, I want to tell you about a company that you may have heard of. Have you heard of this thing called Live Golf? I think it's called Live. I don't know how you pronounce it. L I V.

• 23:44Sam Parr?

  Or live? Wait, L I V?

• 23:48Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, just L I V.

• 23:49Sam Parr?

  No, what's Live Golf?

• 23:52Shaan Puri?

  Live Golf, okay, so.

• 23:55Shaan Puri?

  You know about the PGA Tour. It's like the, the main, it's like the NFL.

• 23:58Sam Parr?

  That tennis thing.

• 23:59Shaan Puri?

  Right? No, golf. So, so Live Golf is a competitor to the PGA that just emerged.

• 24:09Sam Parr?

  Oh, the Saudi Arabia thing.

• 24:11Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. It's a Saudi backed rival. And these guys are basically trying to, it's like they're trying to spin up a new league by brute force. They're investing hundreds of millions of dollars.

• 24:23Sam Parr?

  Which I appreciate.

• 24:24Shaan Puri?

  They pledged, yeah, yeah, me too. Big, big swing. So this is not, this is the opposite of SPS, right? So this is, uh, BDE. So, so basically they, they put, the Saudi Public Investment Fund put in, they pledged $400 million to start the league. I think they've even committed more than that now.

• 24:39Sam Parr?

  I thought they offered Tiger Woods like 500 million or something crazy.

• 24:44Shaan Puri?

  News came out, yeah, they offered him $800 million and he said no, which is like just kind of an insane thing. So, but they have signed other huge stars. So Phil Mickelson, uh, you know, Dustin Johnson, this guy, you know, Brooks Koepka or whatever, who, who recently won the, the, he, he won like four majors or whatever. Um, Cameron Smith, who's like this young star, he signed a hundred million dollar deal. Dustin Johnson, 125 million dollar deal. Phil Mickelson, 200 million dollar deal. They offered Tiger and didn't get him yet, but, um,

• 25:13Sam Parr?

  And Phil can only be on, it can only be on Live and not PGA.

• 25:18Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. So it's a competitive thing. So PGA is like, there's like, I don't know, uh, 60 events a year or whatever. And then there's like four majors. What these guys are doing is like, there's eight events and they all matter. They're going for more of like the NFL model, uh, versus baseball, right? Baseball has hun, you know, almost 200 games a year and, you know, they don't really matter, but there's sort of always something on. Whereas the NFL is like, there's like 17 Sundays or 18 Sundays and like they, each one is going to matter. So that's what these guys are trying to do with the golf model. Um, and to like, put this into context, you know, Tiger Woods, he, he has earned 121 million dollars in all of his PGA winnings, like over time. Uh, you know, obviously he makes more through sponsors and, and, you know, um, other sort of like paid events and things like that.

• 26:01Shaan Puri?

  But just from the PGA, his lifetime, I think, earnings are 121 million. So Live is coming out strong and basically giving these guys like Tiger Woods lifetime money as a guaranteed contract instead of the way the PGA works is it's like, There's a prize pool for every tournament. There's nine million for every tournament. The winner gets three. Everybody else gets like a piece depending on how you finished. And they just do that over and over and over again. And so they do forty eight events a year. And and so Liv comes in and they basically are giving guaranteed money away instead of saying you have to win in order to be there. And so PGA makes like a billion and a half dollars.

• 26:38Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I'm looking at it right now.

• 26:39Shaan Puri?

  Revenue.

• 26:40Sam Parr?

  One point five, a little bit over one point five.

• 26:43Shaan Puri?

  And, you know, eighty five percent of that is like their their tournaments and the meteorites and ads and all that stuff that comes from that. They have like a nine year. They're in year one of a nine year contract. And then Mr. Steal Your Girl comes in and is starting to just take these stars away. And and basically is trying to, you know, compete with them. They also have like prize prize money as well. And so they need, you know, they would need to generate like a billion dollars as well to sort of like have like a similar economics.

• 27:10Sam Parr?

  But what's the play here? Do like Middle Easterns watch a lot of golf? Is that the shtick? Is like this?

• 27:15Shaan Puri?

  No, I I don't know. That's why, like, maybe, like, you know, there's like that weird thing where, like, Russia really loves like women's basketball. I don't know if you know that. Like, if you're a great women's basketball player, you play college in the United States. Then you try to make it to the WNBA. And the WNBA pays you basically nothing. Like, you know, you'll make like seventy, eighty K.

• 27:36Sam Parr?

  Yeah, like a shoe salesman salary.

• 27:37Shaan Puri?

  And then you'll get like three hundred, four hundred K for playing the offseason in Russia.

• 27:41Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 27:42Shaan Puri?

  And everyone's like, why does Russia care this much about women's basketball? Like, nobody asks questions and like, yeah, it's a little bit whatever. I don't I don't know exactly what's going on there, but.

• 27:50Shaan Puri?

  But that's like, you know, they disproportionately like that sport. And so maybe there is something in Saudi Arabia for this. Or it's just they have a huge amount of money and they see the business opportunity where PGA basically had a monopoly on this. And if you can create a successful sports league, these are worth billions and billions of dollars. Like, we both love the UFC. UFC sold for, I think, four point two billion dollars. Which, in my opinion, is

• 28:12Sam Parr?

  Under.

• 28:13Shaan Puri?

  Now, like, very low, undervalued for where it is. And that's like, UFC is like fringe compared to NBA, NFL, like these major, major, major leagues.

• 28:22Sam Parr?

  What's more popular, golf or UFC? Golf, right?

• 28:28Shaan Puri?

  I think golf is not more popular, but it generates more revenue.

• 28:31Sam Parr?

  But what's more lame?

• 28:32Shaan Puri?

  Because it's like sort of the wealth.

• 28:35Shaan Puri?

  Who beats up who? A golfer with their club or a UFC fighter with his hands?

• 28:42Sam Parr?

  I fucking hate golf. I hate golf. I cannot stand golf. Golf's not a sport. Golf's an activity.

• 28:51Shaan Puri?

  Answer this honestly. How much of your thinking at the end of the day boils down to who could beat up who?

• 28:59Sam Parr?

  Most, most. I think that, I think, cause that's like, that's like something that we're all like, uh, like we're all afraid of. Like the guy who at the end of the day is like, oh, I can kill anyone in this room with my bare hands. He is, uh, you know, he's the true, the true dog, you know? He has nothing to fear.

• 29:21Shaan Puri?

  Somebody said this once, I was reading like a NFL scouting reports, like there was a draft, there's four quarterbacks, they're all like top prospects. It's like, who's gonna go number one, who's number two? And the guy who does like the draft, he said this line that I thought was so badass. He goes,

• 29:36Shaan Puri?

  if they were all on vacation and going for a road, you know, they, they're walking out to go to the car, they would all throw the keys to Mark. They would check the keys to Mark, Mark's driving. And there, it was like this like alpha male thing. And I was just like, what was this analogy? And why did I love it so much? Like, if you just said, if it was like, hey, Elon, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, go out to dinner.

• 29:58Sam Parr?

  Who's paying?

• 29:59Shaan Puri?

  Who's picking up the check?

• 29:59Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 30:00Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Who ordered the Uber?

• 30:03Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 30:03Shaan Puri?

  None of these guys.

• 30:05Sam Parr?

  Do you, uh, when you're in a room, like at a restaurant?

• 30:08Shaan Puri?

  Who sits aisle?

• 30:09Sam Parr?

  How, how, what percentage of the time when you're at a restaurant, do you look around and be like, whose ass can I kick and whose can I not?

• 30:16Shaan Puri?

  Zero.

• 30:17Sam Parr?

  Really?

• 30:18Shaan Puri?

  But I know that you do, which is why I asked you this question, cause it's hilarious.

• 30:21Sam Parr?

  You don't think about that?

• 30:23Shaan Puri?

  Zero, zero percent of the time.

• 30:25Sam Parr?

  Dude, I can, I cannot stand golf. Any sport that you wear khaki pants to, to like play, it's not a sport.

• 30:34Sam Parr?

  That's not a sport. It's an activity. It's a hobby. It's checkers, but it's not, you know, like.

• 30:40Shaan Puri?

  It's barely a job if you have to wear khakis. It's barely a job.

• 30:44Sam Parr?

  Like

• 30:45Shaan Puri?

  Sport is, sport is out of the question.

• 30:48Sam Parr?

  Tackies in a collared shirt. That is not, that's, I mean, that's not a sport. Like you, you don't sweat. It's an activity. It's a hobby.

• 30:57Sam Parr?

  This is amazing though. I, I, I don't, like, let's get rid of the Saudi Arabia thing. Uh, I think it's pretty cool, but if you're Phil Mickelson and you have fuck you money hardcore. And Saudi Arabia, who has, you know, a lot of human rights issues, offers you this, what do you do? Do you take it or not? So you double your net worth, probably if you're him.

• 31:18Shaan Puri?

  So I think you can't take it alone in a vacuum because you're not trying to go sit on an island. Doing nothing, uh, by yourself and like lose all your relevance. You lose your future earnings if you do that. But you, what I do is I say to them, look. I'm in if you can go get 40% of this list to join. And you could tell them that fills in if you're in. And I would basically say, you need to sweep the, a critical mass of us so that this is relevant, that this is considered the top class. I'm not going to go play in the B league or the D league, uh, by doing this. And I would tell them that and I would say, I'll do it. You're going to have to cut the fattest check of your life and you gotta go get 40% of this list.

• 32:01Sam Parr?

  So there's a, there's a price that you would take for sure.

• 32:04Shaan Puri?

  Oh, of course, of course. If, you know, if somebody said, hey, you gotta go do this podcast on, on Android and I'd be like, Android even, is there a podcast player on Google? And they'd be like, yeah, it's, we're putting a lot of investment into it. I'd be like, all right. All right. I'll do that. I'll take this podcast to SoundCloud. I'll, I'll take it to the, to the Google Play Store.

• 32:25Shaan Puri?

  But I'm going to need to see

• 32:28Shaan Puri?

  seven and a half million dollars. That's what I would say about this podcast. I would, I would move this podcast for seven and a half million dollars. That is my price.

• 32:33Sam Parr?

  There's, there's a price to pay to be a whore. I'm down, but, uh,

• 32:38Shaan Puri?

  So we actually were gonna do this. So at one point in time, I had a startup that was based on like streaming of video games. And Twitch was the like 900 pound gorilla in the room. That was like, it was the big streaming platform. And we were just like, I, we were trying to build a tool that worked on top of Twitch. Like streamers could use it when they use Twitch. And it was working. And every day we'd come into work, we'd work really hard on this tool. But like, there was definitely a part of us that was like, dude, how did we end up here? We're making this like, tool for Twitch streamers. That like is free. And then we're hoping that we can like, after they all use it, then we might be able to monetize this other way. We're just like this guppy in this like, in the, in the, in the ecosystem of this food chain, we're like that little fish that like swims in front of the whale's nose, like whatever that thing is called.

• 33:23Shaan Puri?

  Like, we're that. And I was like, I liked the fur count. I was like, man, don't you just want to be the whale? And he's like, I just so badly want to be the whale. And I'm like, yeah. So what can we do? He's, and we're just like, mate, we went to the room, which whiteboard of like, how would you like compete with Twitch itself? How would you just beat Twitch? And I was like, dude, look at the numbers. So we like ran the numbers. We're like, Twitch has this insane power law where you can see that the top, you know, X hundred streamers, we take the top 300 streamers. It basically make up all the viewership, all the, all the meaningful viewership. Like, you know, I don't remember what the exact ratios were at the time, but like any power law, it's like, you know, the top 1% or whatever make up a very significant portion of the viewership. So let's just make up some numbers. Let's say

• 34:06Shaan Puri?

  the top 300 made up 50% of viewers at any given time. I was like, so Twitch is worth, Twitch sold for a billion dollars like a decade ago, or whatever, you know, seven years ago, it's probably worth five, seven billion dollars now. You're saying that if we could take, you know, half of that half, if we can get to a quarter of that, we'd be worth a bill, you know, we might, we might have the equivalent, you know, 25% of the traffic would be worth, you know, a quarter of what they're worth, which is like a billion dollars today. How much money would it take for us to throw at those people? Right? Go get 25% of that through top 300. How much money would it take for us to go through with them to be like, come join our new thing? And we like game theory the whole thing out. We're like, all right, this guy makes this much today. We basically need to offer him like 10 times what he's making today.

• 34:51Sam Parr?

  How much, how much do, do some of these guys make just on Twitch?

• 34:54Shaan Puri?

  So shortly after that, the contracts exploded. But like at that time, the top guys were making like single digit millions per year off Twitch. So like, let's call it between one and five million. Plus there's some endorsements. You don't really know how to track and you know, they, they sell some amount of T-shirts. It's hard to know. And then it sort of exploded. Guys started signing like, you know, 10, 20 million dollar deals. But they're, they're, they're like multi-year deals, three-year deals, something like that. So you know, they're making six million guaranteed or something like that. Five million guaranteed, 10 million guaranteed. So that was like the kind of like what our estimates were for the very, very top guys. We thought, okay, so how much would we need? It's like, we basically did the math and we're like, okay, I think you need,

• 35:38Shaan Puri?

  I don't remember what the number was today, but let's call it, let's just pretend it was 150 million. We need 150 million dollars to go through with it, but it's like, if I told you, you could go raise 150 million dollars.

• 35:47Sam Parr?

  And you're saying you needed 150 million dollars in order to pay the streamers and tell them bail on Twitch. Come to our platform. And when you come to our platform, you're going to bring your audience and we're going to make all this money eventually through other people coming.

• 36:00Shaan Puri?

  You get this much guaranteed. All you have to do is just continue to stream and you have to promote it in this way and let us promote you.

• 36:06Sam Parr?

  Can I make a prediction?

• 36:07Shaan Puri?

  We're going to be five million to build this platform.

• 36:09Sam Parr?

  My prediction is that would never work. I don't think that works.

• 36:12Shaan Puri?

  Okay. So tell me why. I'll tell you how, how it obviously it didn't happen. So you know, you're partly right.

• 36:16Sam Parr?

  I think it could.

• 36:17Shaan Puri?

  Tell me why you think.

• 36:17Sam Parr?

  Well, I know that you didn't really try to do this, but, uh, or I don't know in earnest. I don't know if you, you didn't raise 150 million dollars. I think maybe the PGA tour could work, maybe, but doing this for consumers, you need to have like a brand and you need to have some magic about it. It's kind of like, you know, even if you put all of like the resources into creating a boy band, like sometimes that shit just don't work. Even though like everything, like everything on paper, it's like, well, we got the, the blonde hair kid. We got the mixed race kid. We got the, uh, the dancer. We got the singer like on paper, this checks out. You know, like this should work. You know what I mean? We should be popular in Korea by this point. And it's just, there's, there's just no magic, right? It, shit just happens. And then like you have some like, you know,

• 37:02Sam Parr?

  kid who just like sings a funny song and makes a joke about like wearing a cowboy hat. And he gets hugely famous, like Lil Nas X or something. Shit just happens. And I think that there's like a bit of magic that probably would be missing out when you're, because with consumers, it's quite challenging to like grab their attention. It's like getting a, a cat to play with something. It just, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

• 37:22Shaan Puri?

  Right. So, so, so I do think that that, that's part of it. But there have been instances where people have thrown money at the problem and it actually worked. Right. For every quibi where you just raise a bunch of money, you go try to do the thing and it doesn't work. For every one of the, or every 10 of those, there's one where you're like, no, actually they did kind of just brute force their way. And I don't know if you remember this, but when TikTok first launched, TikTok was lame as hell, dude. TikTok was lame as hell. It was pigeonholed as like the lame version of Musically, which was a pretty lame thing. It was like 12 year olds lip syncing videos. And now TikTok is huge. And one, one thing that happened in between, I remember meeting a guy and he was like, yeah, you know, TikTok is gonna spend a billion dollars marketing the app.

• 38:04Shaan Puri?

  Cause I was like, dude, there's billboards in San Francisco, like at bus stops to download TikTok. I was like, do they really think this is gonna work? And we had an intern, uh, not an intern, like a kind of just like a junior guy working for us. He was in ninth grade and he worked at our company. And I was like, he, he started mentioning TikTok and I was like, is TikTok actually a thing? He's like, yeah, you know, we just kept hearing about it, kept hearing about it, kept hearing about it. And then they started just paying all of the top YouTubers and Vine people to just make TikToks. And like, it worked. Eventually it just worked. Like it's like, we all think it's lame, but like, we all kind of started to use it. And then sure enough, the lame thing fell away too, by the end of it. And it like, you know, became like a pretty mainstream thing. Like TikTok really did brute force their way down. They did a bunch of other things, right? Good product, great algorithm. They did a bunch of other things.

• 38:48Shaan Puri?

  I'm not saying they didn't do that, but it's not like they started with this like brand love and authenticity and like loyalty and things like that. So let me tell you how this, this Twitch thing played out. So. I had a hunch that you might be right. So I approached Discord and I said, hey Discord, do you want to buy us? And they're like, uh, maybe. Who are you? And like, what do you want to, what do you do? And I was like, oh, we do this thing today. But here's what we would do with Discord. We would help you compete with Twitch. You have brand love. Like Discord is one of the most loved brands in gaming. It's like you have the brand, you have brand love, but you don't do this today. We will build the platform and like, we can use this strategy to do this. And they were like, well, okay, this is kind of like a crazy big pivot idea. Like, respect the audacity.

• 39:27Sam Parr?

  Who did you email? What role?

• 39:28Shaan Puri?

  I don't know. CEO.

• 39:30Sam Parr?

  And you said, hey, CEO, I'm Sean. This is what I do. Can I come to your office and pitch you? And then you went to the office and told them that? Or you told them this all?

• 39:37Shaan Puri?

  Exactly.

• 39:39Sam Parr?

  Why did he take your meeting?

• 39:40Shaan Puri?

  He, at the end of it, at the end of it, his, his take was basically like, we will acquire you if you want. Uh, I don't know if we'll pay the most. So, you know, that's, that's, I don't know if the deal will happen. Um, and I don't know if we would do this, but the fact that you can come in here and whiteboard this on a wall makes me want you to like, come here and do things. And like, that's the biggest, like, take.

• 40:00Sam Parr?

  That's the biggest bullshit artist thing I've ever heard of. And you almost pulled it off. What was the guy like?

• 40:06Shaan Puri?

  He's amazing.

• 40:07Sam Parr?

  He's a young guy, right? Just like a young nerdy dude.

• 40:09Shaan Puri?

  Jason Citron, yeah. I was like, I had never met Zuck, but I was like, the way he talked about their product, their strategy and like, his like, calm, like confidence, he's like, quiet nerdy confidence. I was like, oh, I don't want to compete with this guy. And I see why they've kicked everyone's ass. Like, this is, like, this guy's really smart and just really, uh, like, has a point of view about the way this needs to go. And like, it's just simple, it's understandable, it's different.

• 40:34Sam Parr?

  Why do you think he took your meeting?

• 40:35Shaan Puri?

  I just feel like he's gonna execute on that.

• 40:38Shaan Puri?

  Um, I think I had gotten a warm intro through his investor, his lead investor. I told his lead investor, hey, we're thinking about selling. But I went to him and I was like, hey, we're thinking about selling. Would you do this deal or not? And he was like, well, you should first talk to the Discord guys. And I was like, great. You know, that's exactly what I was hoping for. You know, because I just need to create a bidding war of some kind to get the, you know, best deal possible. So can you make that intro? So he just emailed him and was like, um, you guys should meet. Uh, like, you know, here's his email. He's like, I think he warm introed. You should meet. And I just said, hey, I'd love to come by the office today and like, uh, you know, 40 minutes, I'll sketch out what I have in mind. And like, you know, you can decide.

• 41:14Sam Parr?

  God, that's so funny.

• 41:15Shaan Puri?

  If I'm just nuts, or if I'm genius or I'm nuts, and you can decide for yourself.

• 41:18Sam Parr?

  But he respected it?

• 41:19Shaan Puri?

  I don't know what I said. Yeah, he was just like, you know, would you like to come like be one of the like C suite type people? Cause I don't think we're gonna do that plan that you outlined, but I like you.

• 41:30Sam Parr?

  Which role?

• 41:30Shaan Puri?

  Like, you know, there's not, uh, I don't, we didn't get that.

• 41:34Sam Parr?

  Dude, this is how.

• 41:35Shaan Puri?

  Which you can be a leader.

• 41:36Sam Parr?

  Everyone needs the confidence of a Sean Purry. This is a great story. This is, um, proof that you can just create shit out of thin air.

• 41:44Shaan Puri?

  Value.

• 41:44Sam Parr?

  Yeah, you can create value.

• 41:45Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I always say this, like, at my last startup, the, the best thing I did ultimately in that, in that company was, I did right by the team and the shareholders of like, at the end, I put my best foot forward to try to get us the most value we could. That was like, you know, of all the things I did, that was the best one. And like, I tried to do many other things. Well, I tried to find product work fit, tried to scale, tried to hire a great team. And I did some of those, okay, some of those poorly. The one thing I did great was this, this process. Let me, let me finish the story here. So then, so I'm like, okay, these guys don't want to do it, but maybe we could still do it. And so we start trying to set up a meeting and I, I realized pretty quickly, oh, you have to do this as one, you have to do this as like a coup, because it's kind of like a rebellion.

• 42:27Shaan Puri?

  And that I was like, we need to do two things. We need to wait till people are pissed off about something that Twitch does, which big companies will shoot themselves in the foot. They'll come out with policies, they'll, they'll make some statement, they'll change some feature, they'll change the revenue split and people will get annoyed. I was like, so we need to capitalize on that. And then secondly, we need to get everybody all at once. You know that movie that's out that people like every, everything, everywhere, all at once? That's, I was like, that's how we need to do this. We can't just get, we can't just slowly negotiate one by one. It won't feel like there's enough momentum. And so I was like, we need to do this at Twitch's big conference where all the streamers will go to, all the big streamers go, because most big streamers, they don't leave their house. They're like, they're like me, but they actually have like, you know, they're actually, you know, rich and famous from their streaming, but they can't leave their room. That's like their job.

• 43:11Shaan Puri?

  And so they, they go on vacation very little. They take very few days off. The one thing they do is they often go to TwitchCon because they can meet their fans and it's the big event. So I was like, we need to do like a dinner the day before, the day of or the day after the conference, probably the, probably the day before. I was like, you know, this might be the worst time because they're going to be up in, you know, the Twitch kind of like ecosystem, but it's the only time we can get them all in the same room. I was like, and we'll lay out our case, which is basically, look, you guys are going to make stupid money. If you all are in, there's no risk to any of you individually, because you're, if you're all there, this will actually work. And see, like, you don't have to play by Twitch's rules anymore. Like you have, you know, say in this thing. I can't find this client info.

• 43:50Speaker 02

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• 44:04Sam Parr?

  Dude, there's this like, there's this like famous meeting that happened in Atlantic City in like 1930s. And that's when they, it was all the mafia guys that got together and like Al Capone and all these guys. And that's when they like formed like the Syndicate or whatever, you know, like the mob and like, you know, it's us versus everyone. That's basically what you did. You had like your little mob meeting and that sounds awesome.

• 44:23Shaan Puri?

  No, I didn't do it. I wanted to do this. I didn't even get there. Why? Because there was one thing that happened. And when we ended up getting acquired by Twitch and it was like, hey, let's grab a drink. We'll celebrate. So we go to, the first time I met him, like outside of the office. And we go to this bar and you know, we're talking about stuff. And I was just like, you know, I was like, what do you think? How would somebody beat Twitch? And he's like, hmm, he's like, he's like, it's pretty hard. We do have like a pretty good business and like, you know, it's hard to compete against these like marketplaces. Once they get big.

• 44:52Sam Parr?

  Did you know about your meeting?

• 44:53Shaan Puri?

  But you know, you could, no, no. So I go, I go, I go, we had an idea. I don't know if this would have ever worked. We got very close and we didn't pull the trigger ultimately. But I always wondered like, would this have worked? And I told him the idea. He goes, he goes, yeah, we've thought about that, like that. I don't want to quote him, but like the gist of what he said was if you were going to do it, that's the only way to do it. But we knew that. And that's why we started signing exclusive contracts with all these guys. And specifically exclusive contracts that don't line up. So we would make one expire in June and another expire in January. Another one expires and the following year. He's like, so that nobody could ever like, they're all off cycle payment, off cycle contracts.

• 45:37Shaan Puri?

  So that nobody could come and like, oh, they're all going to be free agents. And we sign them all right away.

• 45:41Sam Parr?

  Tiny ass detail.

• 45:44Shaan Puri?

  Tiny detail, right? And I was like, wow. And then sure enough, this actually did end up, somebody did try to do this. So Microsoft came out with this thing called Mixer and they went and they tried to get the top streamers. They gave Ninja like, I don't know, some stupid 20, 30 million dollars to come stream on Mixer. He said, yes, because he's like, dude, if I'm making four or five on Twitch and these guys will give me 30 guaranteed to go sit here for two years. All right, I'll do it. And they tell me like, this is integrated with Xbox. It's gonna like, drive me a bunch of new viewers. Cool. And then they tried to get Shroud and tried to get a bunch of others, but they did it too slowly. And so, so this attack did actually end up happening.

• 46:18Sam Parr?

  But that company went out of business, didn't it?

• 46:21Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, because they couldn't get the critical mass. They couldn't get enough people to say yes. But like, this did happen, like the Chinese streaming platforms tried to do it, like a whole bunch of people tried to do this against Twitch at the same time. And Twitch did a, you know, a fairly good job of not only this off-cycle contract thing, but also figuring out is crazy. There was like this, this, uh, this like, theory, which was, how many of your favorite streamers need to move before you move? And so they looked at like, okay, if I'm a viewer, if I spend 100% of the time just watching Sam, and Sam leaves, okay, I have a high likelihood of leaving. But as long as I can get you to watch like, four people, the odds of all four leaving are very low. And if, if one leaves, I'm like 95% chance to just stay.

• 47:02Sam Parr?

  How about the fact that they probably hired some like MIT, like rocket scientists? And he's like, thinking for years, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna help get man to Mars, you know, I'm gonna help, I'm gonna be part of saving the world, the human race, I'm just a little small part of this, but I'm helping. And he gets his job offer from SpaceX and it's 135,000. And then he gets this job offer from Twitch and it's like 140,000. And he's like, yeah, they got free lunch, though. Uh, like, you know, like, it's, it's like, the office is down the street from my house. Um, you know, I can do, I, this, this space thing will always be here, you know, like, um, their, their office is beautiful. And then they take that Twitch office,

• 47:46Sam Parr?

  and then they spend the next eight years of their lives, and the only point is figuring out how to make it so a streamer can click a button. And like a cat pops up on their shoulder like, like an emoji. You know what I mean? Or it's like, how do I just make it so like on Monday Night Football, the first year, the, the down line, the yellow line moves perfectly with like the, you know, how do I do that? You know, space will always be there though, but like, how do I get this like?

• 48:10Shaan Puri?

  Right, right, right.

• 48:11Sam Parr?

  Yeah, just imagine someone like dedicating their lives to that. That, that sounds horrible to me.

• 48:17Shaan Puri?

  That is not far from the truth. And in fact, some people try to use that to their advantage. Um, like, you know, Steve Jobs did that thing where you're recruiting John Sculley or whatever. He's like, you know, when are you going to stop selling sugar water to kids and come like help change the world? And, uh, uh, Scott Harrison, the CEO of Charity Water, he's like, I remember he came to Silicon Valley, he was recruiting for Charity Water. And I was like, how do you recruit from like Google? You this, he was trying to hire somebody from Adobe, I remember. He's like, yeah, she makes four times as much as I'm going to offer. I'm like, how, why would she take a, like a huge pay cut like that, like four X last? He's like, I just gotta hope that she wants to do something that actually matters.

• 48:56Shaan Puri?

  I was like, well, okay. And he actually did succeed at recruiting a bunch of really interesting people. Um, but yeah, you know, it does happen. Like when you're at these companies, it's like, what percent of your life goes towards like being like, you know, can we get, you know, chat engagement up by point two percent? Like, can we get the, uh, you know, if I add this emoji of this, like, you know, bouncing cat, like, are you 34% more likely to come back next week? Like, you know, there's a lot of life that comes down to you. If you work at a big tech company, you're working inside of a slot machine and you're looking at this like person sitting down on the stool and you're like, can I get another four quarters out of them? And what do I need to, let's, hey, make that light flash over there. Hey, cherries, get a flash. Yeah, that'll do it.

• 49:41Sam Parr?

  My wife, you know, went to this fancy Ivy League school. She's this brilliant woman and she was at Facebook when we started dating and she was telling me what she do. She's like, I'm a PMM. What's that stand for? Product Marketing Manager. And I was like, what's that mean? She's like, oh, well, we just help people. Um, like, we want more people to use Facebook. I'm like, oh, are you guys like the thing that puts like the jet above India? So like they get free internet access. She's like, oh, no, not really. Um, well, what do you do? She's like, well, you know, I create, um, different products to help people to use Facebook. I'm like, okay, but what do you really do? And she's like, I'm making it so you could put a sticker on your picture and more people will spend just a little bit more time on this app. And I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah, you should quit, right?

• 50:25Sam Parr?

  And like, that's what she quit. She's like, yeah, and went and did something that actually she cared about. But, uh, yeah, I remember hearing about that. I'm like, oh, that's why you went into debt for all these universities and that's why you did all that was so you can, you know, walk around the Facebook campus for like three hours a day and make like a sticker of like poo jean, the cat or whatever the fuck that thing was called. Remember that thing poo jean or? What was that thing? It was like, it was like a Japanese cat.

• 50:52Shaan Puri?

  No idea what you're talking about.

• 50:53Sam Parr?

  It was called like poo. Remember how Facebook, they would have all these like Japanese cartoons? There was like that dog with his tongue hanging out. I don't remember. It was a thing. It was like poo jean. It was like a cat that was Asian and like, it was like a series of stickers that.

• 51:06Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it's the thing in Snapchat, that that dancing hot dog, which has been seen more than like any cartoon or animation ever. I think it's been seen like 10 billion times, like 100 billion times or something like that. It's like, yeah. This hot dog is actually more popular than Mickey Mouse.

• 51:20Sam Parr?

  Just like the stupid ways of time. It reminds me of on that TV show Silicon Valley. One of the apps that they said was amazing was Nippler and it alerts you of erect nipples in your vicinity. I'm like, ah, this sticker thing. That's Nippler. It sounds good.

• 51:36Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. Honestly, when I was there, when I was, I didn't think it was like, you know, a waste of sort of time and energy in that sense. Like, I don't know, maybe.

• 51:45Sam Parr?

  I think Twitch is actually okay because Twitch is like, this is like this cool subculture. We're nerds. No one likes us. We finally have a space that we can do this stuff. Facebook, I think is different.

• 51:55Shaan Puri?

  And I respected the game theory of it. I was like, when this whole like contract thing was going down and they were like, you know, how basically the question of how much should we bid? I was like, I don't know, you know, like. It's like in sports, there's like this money ball movement where you're trying to figure out the value of a player. And if you can accurately forecast the value of a player, you have an edge in winning in the league. The same thing is true now for all these like big media platforms that are like in Twitch's case, you know, they were bidding for content. So they're bidding for this. And, you know, I went and met with people or like, you know, talked to people who are at Netflix. And it's like, hey, how do you decide how much to spend on the production of this? Or, you know, how do you figure out if it was worth it to spend, you know, whatever a hundred million dollars on House of Cards? And like, and you go there

• 52:39Shaan Puri?

  and you'll meet, you know, you meet the guy who's doing that same thing, right? Like the brilliant data scientist, whose like job is to like A B test the thumbnails of, you know, like the new Garfield movie to figure out which one is going to lead to higher engagement, like lower churn. And it's like, yeah, you know, you're A B testing thumbnails for for you for Netflix and YouTube and all this stuff. Like, yeah, that's like, it kind of feels like, you know, bringing a gun to a knife fight type of thing. Like you're, you're, you're, damn, like, really? This is where all this brain power goes?

• 53:09Sam Parr?

  It's a scale. It's not binary. It's a scale, you know? And so for some companies, it's like, oh, no, this is just way too lame. For others, it's like, oh, this got a little pinch of lame, little half a cup of lame. But like, it's mostly pretty cool. You know what I'm saying? Netflix, I actually think that's cool. It's like, oh, I'm giving the world a little bit of entertainment. Facebook, it's like, I'm just making people hate themselves.

• 53:29Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, the thing that I, the way I ended up thinking about it was, like, do I matter here? Like, if I left, like, who cares? I call this the Django law. Like, if you remove this block from the Jenga tower, tower still there? Okay, guess that wasn't a key block. Like, you know, sure, we'd love to have it there. It's more, it's better if it's there. But like, nah, nobody really cares if it leaves. Like, if I don't really matter here, then like, it's very hard for me to get excited. And that's kind of an ego thing. But it's also like, an impact thing. At a startup, like I can, I can just by myself create a product, give value to customers that didn't exist and I can capture a huge amount of the value.

• 54:10Shaan Puri?

  And at a big company, I'm neither the key person creating the value nor the key person, nor the person who captures any of the value, right? Like your value capture inside of a company is, is, is fixed. Like you, you get paid what you get paid in most cases, you know, aside from like maybe a bonus that you could get, um, whether your product succeeds or fails, which is why a bunch of products fail or go really slow inside these companies because it doesn't matter. You don't get, you don't get a prize if it works, uh, you know, you get, you get praise. And so, and then the other side, which is like, you know, does this matter? And I think there is a counter argument, like I talked to, um, this guy Josh Elman and, uh, and actually even the, the chief product officer at Twitch, this guy Dan, I was like, Dan, why, why do you always join, you know, worked at Google, worked at Nextdoor, worked at now Twitch? I was like, why are you doing this big companies?

• 54:55Shaan Puri?

  Like, have you ever wanted to go do your own? He's like, yeah, but I wanted like impact scale. And I was like, I was like, oh, that's weird. Like in my head, it was always if I'm at a small company, I have a bigger impact because I am big relative to the company. He's like, yeah, but that's not how you think about it. Like here, if I can improve one product that 10 million people use or at Google, uh, you know, a billion people use search, uh, you know, every single day. And so if I can make that better, he's like, I created the book search, you know, feature. I was, you know, on the books team, we created that project. So now you could like search for books and like a bunch of people on earth do that. At a startup, it'd be very hard for me to do that. And I was like, okay, like that is the counterpoint is like, if you're, if you're working at Apple

• 55:37Shaan Puri?

  and you're working on the app store, like, you know, the app store, if a billion people use it every single day, I guess, like making that better reaches a billion people, you know, making their life 1% better or whatever, you know, that, that day is, is higher impact than, than at a startup. But it just doesn't feel that way. The action doesn't feel the same to me.

• 55:53Sam Parr?

  No, I agree. You want to do another topic?

• 55:57Shaan Puri?

  Can I give you a framework that I think is pretty dope that I heard? So I was talking to somebody about like, you know,

• 56:09Shaan Puri?

  I guess I can't really say what I was talking about, but I was talking about something. It's sort of like, you know, they'll say the topic of money, like, you know, should I do this? Should I do this? It's going to yield this amount of money or not? And the person was like, well, the way I think about money is,

• 56:22Shaan Puri?

  you know, because the value of money is what can you say no to if you have this money? And I was like, what do you mean by that? I was interesting. I started, he actually, he didn't even respond, but I was like, I had my head. I was like, that's interesting. I've never heard that before. And so like, I started thinking about it and I go, that's true. Like people always say, you know, I want financial freedom. I want freedom. I don't care about money. I care about freedom. That's like a common thing you'll hear. And it's like, what does that actually mean? I was like, oh, it's actually not the freedom to do something. It's the freedom from having to do something. So it's like, what can I say no to? So let me give you kind of like, so I started thinking about my own life. I was like, when I had $25,000 in my bank account, I could say no to a really shitty job. Like I didn't have to go flip burgers or be a janitor.

• 57:07Shaan Puri?

  Cause I could, I could pay my like monthly bill and I could do that for like, you know, six to 12 months and like, cool. That means I didn't have to go get a bad job, a shitty job today. Then at like a hundred K in the bank, you could say no to like a shitty manager. It's like, okay, I don't, I can't just retire, but I can like quit this job, take a gap and like, find another job. And I don't feel like this like financial stress in doing that. So 100 K lets me say no to a shitty manager. I was like half a million. That's when I could say no to like, I don't have to work for a couple of years. I could just say no to work for a little bit, temporarily say no to work.

• 57:39Sam Parr?

  Like a six to 12 month thing, yeah.

• 57:41Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I could go for a year. I could try a startup or go trap backpacking or whatever. Like I could pursue a passion of some kind. So that's a new thing you could say no to is like work for a little while. Then it kind of like, I would say three million, you could just say no to jobs. Like, ah, I'm only going to work for myself. I can bet on myself and give myself enough time to figure stuff out without having to stress about it. At 10 million, I think you just say no to working in general. It's like, all right, like my money makes enough money. I just don't need to use my time to make money if I don't want to. And then it kind of goes on and I think at 20 million you say no.

• 58:15Sam Parr?

  Well, at like, I've been thinking about this as well. At like between some number, maybe around 100, you say no to having to be in one location. So for example, right now I rent a place in one location and I own a place in another location. If I had a hundred million dollars, I'd probably own three or four homes. And it's just like, hey, let's just go from place to place to place. I don't have to spend any time organizing a rental or anything. And then maybe around like two or 300, it's, I'm going to say no to wasting time at an airport. I'm just, we only, you know, we only fly private.

• 58:48Shaan Puri?

  I think it's that, but the numbers are a little bit less. I said at 50 million, I think you could say no to any inconvenience that money can solve.

• 58:54Sam Parr?

  You could. I think you could, but.

• 58:57Shaan Puri?

  You could fly private at 50 million. You don't have to own the jet, but you could fly private.

• 59:00Sam Parr?

  Sure, for sure.

• 59:01Shaan Puri?

  You could hire assistants to do anything you need. You could hire chefs and drivers and, and, and, you know, errands and accountants and anything you don't want to do, you don't have to do.

• 59:10Sam Parr?

  I talked.

• 59:11Shaan Puri?

  Once you get to sort of 20, 50 million range.

• 59:12Sam Parr?

  I talked to a guy the other day who owns a jet and he said it's about two and a half million a year in expenses.

• 59:18Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 59:18Sam Parr?

  And he owns it. If you want to rent it, I think you could go most, you can go to a lot of places and spend half a million dollars a year. And if you have 50 million, that's, that's doable. But you can't own like an eight million dollar house in Brooklyn and then a three million dollar house in Austin. And then a five million dollar house in LA, but you could own pretty nice shit in those places.

• 59:37Shaan Puri?

  Right. And so, you know, like the top ladders, you get to 100 million. And I think you could say no to the way the world, the world works. You get to change some rules. And at a billion, I think you say no to like politicians, you say no to the police. You say, you say no to a bunch of people when you get to a billion, because you have the ability to kind of fight back. They, they kind of, there's, there's a different level of respect. And so to me, I liked this framework of what does this amount of money allow me to say no to that I want to say no to?

• 1:00:06Sam Parr?

  Did you, um, what would, what hourly rate would you say no to right now? For, uh, for a project that you don't want to do for a one hour phone call, what would you have to accept?

• 1:00:17Shaan Puri?

  So like, I think there's like what you say, and then there's like what you actually like, what the market clearing price actually is.

• 1:00:24Sam Parr?

  So you would, you would, right now I charge $2,000 an hour and I take about two hours a week of phone calls. Would you do that or not?

• 1:00:33Shaan Puri?

  So that's the exact borderline. So on GLG, that's like what you could, the max you could set my rate to is 2,000. And if I get a, if I get a bid, and I'm like, ah, this phone call doesn't sound like it's gonna be a lot of fun. It's like right at that borderline where I feel like, I kinda should, like, for an hour, I should do it.

• 1:00:54Sam Parr?

  Dude, I don't take, I don't take the calls because I need the money. I take the calls because I feel guilty saying no. And so-

• 1:01:00Shaan Puri?

  It's the same thing, right? Like, feeling like I should means feeling like, I wanna say no, but I don't think I should. And therefore, if I say no, I kinda feel like I've made up, you know, I'm guilty, right? Like-

• 1:01:11Sam Parr?

  What I've done is, I've used the app intro, and I just, like, for example, I'm flying down to your event, and then I'm flying to LA. I, I schedule it, so I know when I'm gonna be-

• 1:01:21Shaan Puri?

  Assign the money.

• 1:01:21Sam Parr?

  Well, I know when I'm gonna be in the Uber, and I just make my availability there. So I'm like, sick, I'll just take this in the Uber. And now I can afford, like, I could justify a $200 Uber Black, because I'm making $2,000 in this hour. And so I'm gonna be comfortable, and I'll order even early. So if I arrive early at the airport, I can just sit outside of the airport and finish this call. So that's kinda how I've been justifying it now. But-

• 1:01:43Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 1:01:43Sam Parr?

  It feels weird selling time per hour. And I don't even know if I like that in general.

• 1:01:48Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. So I would say my true answer is, if I don't wanna do it right now, I think that the number is something like $2,000 or $3,000 for an hour. If I, if I just, if I don't wanna do it, I actually just don't do it. But if it's like borderline, if I'm not sure if I wanna do it, or I don't think I would like it, but it's not so painful, I think that's my current thing. But I'm actively trying to get away from it. Like,

• 1:02:11Shaan Puri?

  something that came up yesterday that was like this, and I was like, I was, by default, I was just gonna say yes. And I was like, should I say yes to this? Let me just like, recheck what I wanna be saying yes to. Because I think that, you know, one of the most important decisions in your life is, what are the things I'm gonna say yes to? And what are the things I'm gonna say no to? So there's your default box, which is like, oh, I, I obviously say yes and no to these things. Then what are the non-obvious things? So it's like- I want to be saying yes to things that I know will be fun and help me grow, but scare me a little or put me out of my comfort zone. Right? So it's like, I know I want to say yes to that. I know I want to say yes to, if my friend is in town, I want to go pick them up from the airport or if my mom needs to get to the airport, I want to drive her there. Like, I want to say yes to tasks that like,

• 1:02:55Shaan Puri?

  I don't want to do, but I actually want to be the person who does those things. So I'm just like, I'm deciding consciously, what are the things that are like, what, what should I be moving into the yes box and what should I be moving into the no box? What's some shit I do today that I should be saying no to?

• 1:03:08Sam Parr?

  Do you have a polite way of saying no to all the inbound or do you just ignore?

• 1:03:13Shaan Puri?

  I used to just ignore and then I realized like, it's totally fine to just say, hey, this sounds cool, but I just got my hands full. I don't want to do anything else. Or like, hey, this, you know, hey, you know, thanks for reaching out. I don't want to do any more phone calls than I'm doing right now, but if that changes, I'll let you know.

• 1:03:34Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:35Shaan Puri?

  And like, I'll just say something and I think, you know, people, A, they just appreciate a response more than a blow off. And B, I think there's some level of respect for,

• 1:03:44Sam Parr?

  thoughtful emails, yeah.

• 1:03:46Shaan Puri?

  For, for, you know, somebody just being honest and like, just saying, look, I, I don't like, I don't want to do that. You know, I, I've decided I want to travel less, you know? So I'm going to say, so I'm saying no to travel.

• 1:03:58Sam Parr?

  Dude, I had this guy messaging me saying he wants to come on the pod and I was just like, I ignored it. I ignored it because I hate when people ask to come on. Because I'm like, dude, why are you going to make me say no? Like we, I say no to everyone practically, even good friends. And we just say no to most everyone. And this guy, he was like, I was, hey, or he was like, can I come on? I'm a huge fan. And I just said, like, thanks for reaching out. Like, I didn't even, I tried to avoid it. Like, it was quite obvious. And he's like, hey, so can I come on? And I go, you know, this isn't a good fit, but I really appreciate you listening. And he was like,

• 1:04:28Sam Parr?

  can I get some feedback? I was like, it's just not a good fit. And he goes, okay, but why? And I was like, oh, okay. Cause you're not interesting and you're not that successful. And he was angry at me and I was like, dude, what, what the hell? I mean, I was trying to like, you know, make a point of like avoiding this topic and being kind. But you, if you're going to ask for feedback and I'm going to tell you, you know, what, what it's about, don't get angry.

• 1:04:50Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 1:04:52Sam Parr?

  It's like, what's not interesting about it? He said, I go, it just, there's, you know, I just don't care about you.

• 1:04:59Shaan Puri?

  My, my, my Goldilocks thing here was I was too cold when I just blew people off because they didn't like that. And then they would just stop like, you know, I, I found I would miss opportunities because I wouldn't reply to things, miss opportunities I cared about in the long run. Then the too hot was I would just be like, I don't do phone calls. I was like, okay, you know, you're sort of a jerk for just being like, I don't do phone calls or like, I don't meet with people I don't know. Or like, you know, I don't do this. It's like too hard of a rule. And I found that the sweet spot was somewhere in the middle of just saying, you know, hey, thanks, but, but you know, I'm trying to do less of this right now. Or, or sometimes I'll say like, they'll be like, hey, did you want to do this? I'll be like, you know, I haven't decided and, you know, like, I don't know.

• 1:05:43Shaan Puri?

  I don't, I don't even know what I want yet. So let me get clear on what I want. And then I'll come back if I, if I, you know, when I get clear, if I ever get clear on it. But like, it's not about you. I just don't know exactly what I want to do right now. And like, I'll just say like something honest like that. And I found that that, that tends to work a little bit better.

• 1:05:57Sam Parr?

  Dude, we went from Hitler to Saudi Arabia to saying no to people.

• 1:06:05Shaan Puri?

  Mental models.

• 1:06:05Sam Parr?

  Yeah, mental models. Good pod. You, I'm going to be in LA on Sunday. You're not coming, right?

• 1:06:15Shaan Puri?

  To LA on Sunday? No, I don't think so.

• 1:06:16Sam Parr?

  But then I'm going to see you in.

• 1:06:18Shaan Puri?

  What are you going to, what are you going to LA for?

• 1:06:19Sam Parr?

  I told you about it. I'm hosting an event there, dude, for the New York event that I'm hosting. We've got like 1300 RSVPs. I'm eager to see how many show up.

• 1:06:27Shaan Puri?

  You gotta cut that down, right? You can't, you can't do, you're gonna do a thousand person event?

• 1:06:31Sam Parr?

  No, that's how many people said they're coming, but it's free. So like, maybe half will come. But we put up 10 grand.

• 1:06:37Shaan Puri?

  You're gonna do a 650 person event?

• 1:06:40Sam Parr?

  Dude, it's all guys, by the way.

• 1:06:42Shaan Puri?

  Such an absurd number.

• 1:06:42Sam Parr?

  It's all guys. I like scroll through, it's all dudes.

• 1:06:45Shaan Puri?

  I could smell that event already.

• 1:06:47Sam Parr?

  Yeah. It's fucked up, man. So many chats are gonna be there. And then I'm doing the same thing in LA and that one has like five or 600 RSVPs. I just, you and I were talking about an event and I was like, kind of like, actually, this was like a toilet decision. And I just wrote it on Eventbrite on my phone and just posted it right away and people signed up and said, we're committed. So we're doing that. And then I'm going to be, and then we're going to go to the Carolinas for the thing you're organizing, which everyone's been reaching out to me. Did we talk about it last pod?

• 1:07:18Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, we mentioned they had a last pod.

• 1:07:19Sam Parr?

  Dude, so many people reached out.

• 1:07:20Shaan Puri?

  What did they reach out about?

• 1:07:21Sam Parr?

  They want to come, uh, they basically people wanting to come. And I'm like, this isn't, no, no, sorry. It's not my thing, but.

• 1:07:29Shaan Puri?

  So, so I came up with a, I was like, what do we call this? And I was like, I want to call it camp MFM. So it's camp MFM. And I was like, we could do these, but we could do a bunch of these. We could just do like adult summer camps.

• 1:07:40Sam Parr?

  Great idea.

• 1:07:41Shaan Puri?

  What's, what is something that's really fun? Cause I don't want to go to something that's like, like even this like a thousand person meetup. Like, I'm sure it's cool and there's cool people.

• 1:07:50Sam Parr?

  Well, it serves a different purpose. It's a party versus an experience.

• 1:07:54Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. So I want to have experiences, you know, when you were like, I'm a fucking artist, man. Yeah, that's all I have. Like, I want to have experiences.

• 1:08:01Sam Parr?

  This is going to be a good one. Now we got to come up with another one. Let's go to like.

• 1:08:04Shaan Puri?

  And so some of these will be like this one, which is like ultra, like more like super exclusive, right? There's only, there was only supposed to be 12 people going, it's expanded to 24. And, um, you know, that's a lot. Uh, I wanted it to be more like 12, but I'm like, there'll be those. And I think we should do some that are for like, dude, if you can, like, if you know the phrase, you know, we don't do public math, manifest cowboys. You know, uh, Sam wants to own a lake. Like if you know the inside jokes of this pod, then you, that's your admittance into the, to this, this camp. And I was like, I think we should do these like twice a year, um, that are just like fun and awesome and get people together.

• 1:08:41Sam Parr?

  Or quarterly, I mean.

• 1:08:42Shaan Puri?

  Camp MFM should be the thing. I never wanted to do the work for this. Um, and neither do you. And so that's like, you know, one of the challenges, but.

• 1:08:50Sam Parr?

  But it wasn't a lot of work for this one, was it?

• 1:08:51Shaan Puri?

  Kind of feel like it is, it's a lot of, because as soon as I try to do something, I'm like, well, let's make it fucking awesome then. Like, you know, so like all of a sudden, like for this basketball thing, we got like Nike's giving us all like, like sneakers, like from like one of their players. And then we're getting like custom swag. We rented these like dope Airbnbs. We got like a chef. We got like all this stuff coming together. I was like, well, if we're going to have good people, let's get like some like good names in here. Let's get like some people we're excited to meet. And then it's all coming together and like, but like each one of those now, I'm like, now I want it to be like awesome if we're going to do it.

• 1:09:23Sam Parr?

  We got, we, you know, we. We can get a sponsor to say like, are you gonna, you get $300,000 a year to do cool shit, but we get to be there at all the events.

• 1:09:34Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, okay. If somebody wants to do sponsor Camp MFM, you can do this. All the money will go to basically hiring a planner to actually do these things for us. And secondly, to the venue and logistics of it.

• 1:09:48Sam Parr?

  All right, that's a pod. I'm out.