#1575 Alessandro Palombo | How to Buy EU Citizenship with Bitcoin

Alessandro Palombo is the Co-Founder and CEO of Bitizenship. They allow people anywhere in the world to get a second citizenship in Europe and to get bitcoin exposure while doing it. In this conversation we talk about how it works, why people are doing it, what the rules are, how to make money with the bitcoin exposure, and what countries are saying, and what he is excited out moving forward.========================Core is the leading Bitcoin scaling solution, enabling you to lock in yield by locking up your Bitcoin. Simply lock it on the Bitcoin blockchain to secure the Core network, and get rewards. No bridging. No lending. Just holding. Still your keys. Still your coins. Now your yield. Start at https://stake.coredao.org/pomp========================Bitwise is one of the largest and fastest-growing crypto asset managers. As of December 31, 2021, the company managed over $1.3 billion across an expanding suite of investment solutions, which include the world's largest crypto index fund and other innovative products spanning Bitcoin, Ethereum, DeFi, and crypto equities. Whether you’re an individual, advisor, or institution, Bitwise provides intelligent access to crypto with your unique circumstances in mind. Visit www.bitwiseinvestments.com to learn more. Certain of the Bitwise investment products may be subject to the extreme risks associated with investing in crypto assets. Visit www.bitwiseinvestments.com/disclosures/ to learn more.========================Polkadot is a scalable, secure, and decentralized blockchain technology aimed at creating Web3. Created by Gavin Wood, co-founder of Ethereum, Polkadot empowers users to build decentralized applications with ease. Backed by industry leaders, making it a preferred choice for big names, Polkadot stands out as a leading choice for investors seeking a reliable, future-proof solution in the growing world of Web3 technology. Learn more at https://polkadot.com/.=======================Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/=======================View 10k+ open startup jobs:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dreamstartupjob.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Enroll in my Crypto Academy: https://www.thecryptoacademy.io/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 0:58Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode.

• 1:26Speaker 03

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 1:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Are you a Bitcoiner and do you want a second citizenship? Well, old boy, do I have a special treat for you today. I'm joined by Alessandro Palombo. He's the co-founder and CEO of Bittisanship. They simply allow people from anywhere in the world to get a second citizenship in Europe and to get Bitcoin exposure while they're doing it. In this conversation, we talk about how it works. Why people are doing it? Who's doing it? What the rules are? How can you actually make money with the Bitcoin exposure? And then we even talk about what are the countries where you can actually get the citizenship? What does it allow you to do all throughout Europe? This conversation is fascinating and it goes back and reinforces the theme that now people live in a global digital world. They want to have options. They want to be able to move around the world with much, much more freedom. And Bitcoin and a second citizenship getting put together?

• 2:36Anthony Pompliano?

  That's the type of stuff that people who watch this show, they like. So this conversation is for you. Here's my latest conversation with Alessandro Palombo. All right, Alessandro, I thought a great place to start this conversation is you're telling me that I can buy Bitcoin and then another country will give me citizenship so I could have like dual citizenship or something. How the heck does this work?

• 2:53Speaker 04

  Well, we created the Bitcoin ecosystem Golden Visa Fund in Portugal. So this means that you can invest in the fund. The fund invests in a Bitcoin-aligned company. So this company is a Portuguese company running in Portugal. We are based there and the company acquires exposure to Bitcoin. So when we created this model one year ago, it was a complete innovation. We worked successfully with dozens of investors so far. And yeah, so that's why the name of this company, Bit Citizenship, Bitcoin Citizenship.

• 3:19Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, so let me make sure I get this right. So if I'm an American or anywhere else in the world and I say, okay, I want Portuguese citizenship. Portuguese has a program where if I invest, how much money?

• 3:30Speaker 04

  500,000 euro, half a million.

• 3:32Anthony Pompliano?

  So 500,000 euro. If I invest that in somewhere in Portugal, there's certain rules, then I can get the citizenship. But if I'm a Bitcoiner, I don't want to buy real estate or I don't want to buy something, I want to buy Bitcoin. You guys basically created a fund that people could invest in, that fund that invests in a company, that company buys the Bitcoin. So it's a way to kind of, you know, make sure, use the rules to your advantage to get the Bitcoin exposure and get a citizenship out of it as well.

• 4:01Speaker 04

  Exactly, in substance, yes.

• 4:02Anthony Pompliano?

  That's clever.

• 4:03Speaker 04

  Thank you so much. It was, it was, we had prior experience with Golden Visa programs. And in my, in our view, the problem is always that, you know, you can find investment opportunities, but not aligned for Bitcoiners, for people who, you know, adhere to this movement. And we created the solution for, actually, this was initially for our friends, because we believe that, you know, Portugal is betting on innovation. We wanted to also help the local Bitcoin ecosystem to grow. And this solution worked very well. And the unique thing is that if you want to get a European citizenship right now, only Portugal allows you to do it without having to move there. So you invest a family in this one?

• 4:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Anywhere else in Europe, you'd have to move to wherever it is. Okay, and if I get the Portuguese citizenship, I can go anywhere in the European Union?

• 4:51Speaker 04

  A hundred percent.

• 4:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 4:52Speaker 04

  That's the real power, because European is 27 different countries. But once you're a citizen, citizen in one of those, you can settle, you can get healthcare, education, everywhere, you and your kids.

• 5:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so how do I get my money back? Is there, like, how does that work?

• 5:08Speaker 04

  So this specific fund, the number one week created is a closed ended fund. So the remaining duration is seven years. So ideally, you always need to maintain the investment for the five years of the, for the Golden Visa purposes, for maintaining, you know, for actually getting to the right to citizenship and one year after. So you will get back your capital and hopefully profits at the end of the fund. Right now, it's seven years.

• 5:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And so the program itself requires that the money stays in the country for at least five years.

• 5:35Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 5:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, so people can't just put it in and take it right back out. Makes sense though, right?

• 5:39Speaker 04

  And it's fair for the country, because in the end, there is an operating company in Portugal, it's active in Portugal, we pay taxes in Portugal, and that's the balance. And in my view, the Portuguese program, along all the European programs, in the end, has been the, probably the most thoughtful in terms of how they created it. So it's, in our view, is the most competitive.

• 5:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, now, who are the types of people who are doing this? Are these people who, you know, they, they want to move to Portugal and get citizenship for some sketchy reason? Are these like business people? Are they families?

• 6:06Speaker 04

  They are all business people with families, and most of them, we are quite proud to have on boarded quite successful entrepreneurs, most of them. Very well known also, we of course for privacy reasons, we can't disclose the name, but very an interesting set of individuals. They want a Plan B. So the primary objective is I want to get a Plan B for my family because in the end, you know, you don't know how the world will be in 20 years, right? So or even in 10 or sometimes even in five. So getting a Plan B with Europe means to get a an exposure to 27 different countries. It makes sense. And we have investors from literally all around the world, a lot of Americans, of course, British, Indians, Brazilians, Mexicans, Chinese, everywhere, everyone.

• 6:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Man, that's crazy. All right. Now you did it in Portugal. It's working. You guys are, you know, rocking and rolling, helping people get citizenship. But now, you know, you're Italian, I'm Italian, you're going to Italy, like a little homecoming, a little homecoming for you, right? What is the Italy program? What are the differences or similarities to the Portugal program?

• 7:00Speaker 04

  So Italy is going to, we are launching Italy is 250,000 euros. So it's the half. You need to invest in a Bitcoin startup that we are creating.

• 7:11Speaker 04

  The important difference is that the Italian program is requires for citizenship, you to live in the country for 10 years. So you need actually to move there. So if you want a citizenship, the Portuguese program, even independently from future changes, is and will remain the best. But if you instead want to get access to Italy and eventually to a education system for your for your kids or healthcare, or and you want to get a Schengen essential visa with which you can travel across Europe, Italy, of course, it costs you half and of course it carries on. I mean, I'm biased. I think you're biased. It's a great place where to.

• 7:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, if you move there, what is constitute moving? Do you have to stay for one month, half a year, a full year?

• 7:55Speaker 04

  Let's say to play on the safe side, half a year plus one day.

• 7:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so you got to be there for at least half the year in Italy and no complaints, right? A lot of people would love to do that. But then you get to check the box, you do that for 10 years and you get the citizenship.

• 8:08Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 8:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. What are the things that countries are doing to try to get you to come help them with this? Because I got to imagine that once they see people are doing it, the reason why these countries have these programs is because they want people to use them, right? They don't create it just to sit there. And if you're bringing all of this money, investment, people, citizens, et cetera, to their country, I'm assuming that country starts saying, hey, hold on a second. Well, you went to Portugal and Italy. Why don't you come here next?

• 8:33Speaker 04

  So that's an interesting question. So we have some conversations going around, especially with a strategic place. I hope they will they will unfold as fast as possible because our goal as a company, essentially, this is a kind of family business with high growth. And we we have prior track record in this vertical and it sounds easy, but to put these together, it's very complex. And our goal is to essentially enable Bitcoin series ships. That's why business ship all around the world. So we would love to give optionality because in the end, I believe, I don't want to be the one telling you, hey, Portugal or Italy or another country, but I want to give you all the opportunities and then you choose. And in theory, Anthony, the thing is, I don't want to go too theoretical, but it's a good idea in general to get exposure to more than one country. So if you can, you need to stack your passports. It's like with Bitcoin.

• 9:18Anthony Pompliano?

  And then what about, so Europe seems to be a focus. Now, you guys live there, right? You guys are Italian, et cetera. Could you do this in Asia? Could you do it in South or Central America? Could you do it in an African country? Like, what are the other options?

• 9:32Speaker 04

  Right now, not really, not really, because every country has its own nuances. And we, in order to have this model to work properly, at least, we need to have the right legislative framework. And right now, it's pretty tight. So we can do it confidently, again, in Italy with its own nuances. Because in this case, it's not going to be a fund. It's going to be a startup, a Bitcoin startup. We could do it in another European country, but we believe it's not attractive. And pretty much it's, we check it out, of course, US, USA, Canada, Asian countries, Middle Eastern countries. But without eventually specific government approvals, it's not really feasible. You can do certain things, but it would be ultimately, in our view, not the best for the investors. And we want to ship only products that are critically, you know, built for success and hopefully to address the best they need.

• 10:17Speaker 04

  So right now, no, but let's put in these terms. We are constantly, every day, every week, checking out. And as the day that there is a program that allows it, we will be there.

• 10:26Anthony Pompliano?

  And you'll be there. Yeah, what about the costs, right? So I'm assuming you guys got to make money somehow. It's business capitalism. Some people don't like capitalism, down to socialism, idiots, but capitalism. In terms of people put the Bitcoin in, what is the cost that you guys? How do you guys make money?

• 10:42Speaker 04

  So on the Portuguese fund, we run it with this logic of 1.5% annual management fee and 10% performance fee. So essentially, whenever the fund makes profits, essentially you take 90% and we keep 10%.

• 10:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. And then in that fund, after the end of the seven years, can I get back Bitcoin? Or can I get back dollars?

• 11:05Speaker 04

  Dollars.

• 11:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Dollars.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  It's one of the effects of this legislation. But for the Italian product, this is a major actually news because again, for the second time, we are creating something that didn't exist worldwide. So the Italian startup will be able to accept Bitcoin, which means investment in kind. When you want to invest in the startup and we will be able to let you redeem in kind in Bitcoin. So for Portugal, no, it's feared, unfortunately. For Italy, of course, there are different models legally and blah, blah, blah. But essentially you can put and get back Bitcoin.

• 11:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Interesting. So Portugal, no in kind, but in Italy, you can do in kind contributions and also in kind redemptions as well.

• 11:44Speaker 04

  Correct. And we believe this is going to be fantastic.

• 11:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 04

  For a lot of Bitcoin friends, you know, in the end, still now cashing out is a pain in the neck, right? For various reasons, in this case, we will be able to accept Bitcoin and give back Bitcoin.

• 11:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Talk about like Bitcoin as a kind of a peaceful asset. Like one of the things that like, when I think of a Bitcoin citizenship, it makes me think of a world that is less abrasive, less chaotic, less zero sum, you know, you win, I lose, I win, you lose. It feels like that's kind of what you guys are doing here, right? As you're saying like, hey, we kind of drew like these lines on maps and some, for, you know, in some lenses, like for good reason, right? A country isn't a country without a border. On the other hand, the ability for good actors to go and visit, do this stuff, right? Should be easier.

• 12:35Speaker 04

  A hundred percent. So I am a big believer in the concept of, in the end, even national borders, the next twenty, thirty years should have less meaning. And this is, of course, a very complex and politically, of course, very delicate and sensitive topic. But ultimately, I would like to put it in these terms. So without going too much philosophical, in the end, the whole concept of national states, etc., was developed in a different world, where we didn't have technology, we didn't have the internet, and so forth and so on. So right now, to be very frank, in a global and internet-based economy, and when we have Bitcoin that is immediately accessible all around the world without barriers, to be frank, the same concept of barriers, as I see it, is more an obstacle to the human, in general, potentiality and freedom,

• 13:19Speaker 04

  rather than being a means of safety. Because even right now, you know, compared to 300 years ago, the necessity of physical safety for societal members, you know, it has evolved. So yes, if you want to put it in these terms, it's correct. So we are quite proud to contribute to make borders for certain, you know, good, actually, actors less relevant. And in the geopolitical spectrum, I think, of the next twenty, thirty years with the AI, you know, an AI-based economy, in my view, it's quite critical to get exposure to different jurisdictions.

• 13:51Anthony Pompliano?

  What do you think is like the biggest hurdles? All regulation and like legislation stuff from these countries? If they would just create these programs, you guys could run wild across the world.

• 14:00Speaker 04

  The biggest challenge is regulatory and administrative, actually, planning from governments. Why? Because ultimately, you know, all these legislations, they, even now, they're not built for Bitcoiners or for tech. So when you actually go into the details and you need to build the actual structure of the companies and make them working, it's very complex. And I always say this, because sometimes you think of, well, there are the laws, and then you can just interpret them and you can apply them for your product. That's one layer of complexity. But then, I have PhD in administrative law, so unfortunately, I spend many years in this, doing this stuff. The real layer of complexity, in my view,

• 14:41Speaker 04

  is the one below, the general law. So when you go into the details of how the rules should be applied and which are the authorities to confer to. That's where the incredible complexity happens. And to be frank, the whole game of second citizenships and eventually residencies is based often on countries that are not necessarily so efficient. Otherwise, they wouldn't have an incentive to offer the deal. I mean, the US is trying to offer a tree. He's offering a five million golden, right? Golden card.

• 15:09Anthony Pompliano?

  From gold card.

• 15:10Speaker 04

  And they said the other day, we already sold 25,000. If this was true, it would be amazing, right? But it's five million. So imagine if other countries are selling residency by investment programs, RBIs for 500K. Why do they do it? Eventually, they need to attract capital. They need to attract skills. Necessarily, they may be not the most efficient countries yet. So that's the real complexity for us. Because when we need to deal with very convoluted systems and making it running and satisfying the expectation with the investors, that's our real job. So essentially, we are an intermediate layer between the huge complexities and sometimes the nonsense generated by, I would say, legacy systems and the needs of modern investors.

• 15:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:51Speaker 04

  Is it frustrating? Ah, that's a great question. It is, but at the same time, can I tell you more? It's part of our mission, so we do it with pleasure, you know, because it's in someone has to do the hard work. And in the end, also, you know, given my background, my private track record and so far and so on. So in general, this is the vertical we can express as a team at best our skills and where we can be the most competitive. So to be frank, we do it with pleasure. But yes, it's extremely frustrating because sometimes, you know, when you operate in tech and you're past in, you know, work in startups and so far and so on, you want to immediately generate an exponential value. And sometimes, of course, in this field, it takes time. But you know, sometimes if you want to run a marathon, you need to put the work, right? You can go and run a marathon the day after.

• 16:35Speaker 04

  So we see, we like to see this in these terms.

• 16:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. You mentioned your background, helping set you up to do this. Explain a little bit more.

• 16:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I started my career as a lawyer. I got a PhD in public law. I did some academic studies and I spent then 10 years in running and founding actually startups in the sovereignty field. I also advise the governments, institutions on matters, eventually around specifically tech and specifically blockchain.

• 17:07Speaker 04

  I did a few things, but most importantly, I mean, recently I developed my kind of expertise into global living and global citizenship in this case via online content creation. We generated, I generated 240 plus million impressions organically on X in less than 12 months. So I would say I developed my own skill set in the last 10, 12 years precisely, you know, along these topics because when, only when you effectively work with institutions, even in order to enable them to adopt a new legislation on blockchain or Bitcoin, you understand precisely how do they operate. So that's essentially the track record that I personally brought on the table. And my wife, actually, she already had a golden visa fund

• 17:49Speaker 04

  in Portugal, a successful one in real estate before real estate became not anymore, uh, uh, before 2023, you could have invested in real estate and

• 18:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, you can't do that anymore?

• 18:01Speaker 04

  No.

• 18:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, so you used to be able to invest in real estate and then get the citizenship?

• 18:05Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 18:05Anthony Pompliano?

  But now you can't invest in real estate?

• 18:07Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 18:07Anthony Pompliano?

  So why did they take that out?

• 18:09Speaker 04

  That's interesting.

• 18:09Anthony Pompliano?

  So as you

• 18:12Anthony Pompliano?

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• 22:26Speaker 04

  This is one of the examples of how fast sometimes the window of opportunity gets reduced because of political concerns. So the specific political concern in Portugal was based on a skyrocketing real estate market. And sometimes you think of Bitcoin, but you haven't seen the price of real estate in Portugal.

• 22:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, that's the price you don't want to go up.

• 22:48Speaker 04

  Unless you own it already since 2008, because objectively, that showed us how crazy can a market be? And the multiplier eventually is almost as high as Bitcoin, because real estate properties sometimes did up to 8X in nine years. Okay, so the same apartment, same property. So I would say the legitimate concern politically was, okay, but we are pricing out from real estate our own people, especially because the purchasing power of Portuguese is not among the highest.

• 23:19Anthony Pompliano?

  That makes sense, though.

• 23:19Speaker 04

  That makes sense. The unfortunate thing is that they realized after this legislative change that in the end, it was not because of... One hundred sixty five, three hundred annual investors per year coming, you know, via the Golden Visa program to impact on the overall market. So if you look at the statistics, Portugal specifically had different issues. Essentially, the capacity of building new housing since two thousand and eight hasn't grown at all. So it's, the demand of real estate went a bit up and the supply didn't catch up. So this was the real cause, but politically, they think, they thought, oh, this is the fault of Portugal.

• 23:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Foreigners are taking our housing, right?

• 23:57Speaker 04

  So this was the logic.

• 23:59Anthony Pompliano?

  I mean, that's what's going on in America right now. There's a lot of people who think that that's a huge problem, right? Whether it is or not, it's politically, that's become a topic.

• 24:06Speaker 04

  And I can understand them because, you know, sometimes it's not easy. So I'm not trying to point finger and say, hi, you've been guilting. I am thankful for the opportunity and I'm thankful to Portugal specifically, besides because we had, with my wife, I've been with a company, Real Estate, for many years. We live there. But also because objectively, they created the most thoughtful program because you literally can invest, you bring value in the country and you don't need to move. So this is, in my view, the best balance because you still need to learn Portuguese a bit, you still need to do some online classes, you still need to spend a few days every two years in the country. So there is a balance, but at the same time, they let you be free. So if you want to remain in New York, you can do it. So this has been how the Portuguese story went. And if I can expand on this point,

• 24:50Speaker 04

  I don't know if you perhaps followed, but maybe this is a marginal topic for, in the grand scheme of things, but for example, one of the best programs was the Maltese programming in Europe. So prior, you know, actually this April of two thousand and twenty five, the European Court of Justice essentially axed the program. So what I'm trying to, the point I'm trying to share with you is, this entire world of second citizenship is hyper volatile, potentially more than Bitcoin, which means. Today, you may opt in in Portugal with these terms. Tomorrow, maybe not.

• 25:22Anthony Pompliano?

  But the people who bought the real estate, they were already citizens, so they don't get the citizenship taken away. It's just net new people couldn't use the real estate, right?

• 25:29Speaker 04

  This is a general rule. So, once you invest, you're lucky in your best interest. And especially in Europe, we have a very solid set of constitutional rights that the government can't remove you. So, once you invest, you're good.

• 25:40Anthony Pompliano?

  And then they make people learn a little bit of Portuguese?

• 25:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, a little bit. You need to either achieve a basic understanding and do an exam, an A2 level, or you need just to frequent, attend to online classes, I think around 120 hours.

• 25:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, so it's pretty interesting that like to become a citizen, so like you have to kind of like assimilate to Portugal.

• 26:03Speaker 04

  I would say yes, in the right, with the right balance.

• 26:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, well, I'm just saying from an American perspective, that's like a taboo, like nobody wants to talk about that. Everyone's like, oh, everyone should just come do whatever they want, whatever, right? But it'd be like, the equivalent would be like in America, I was telling people who want to immigrate to America, you have to learn English, you have to go to online classes, like that would be, the news would be talking about that for months here in America. There's no way you could make people do that. But other countries, that's what they do, right?

• 26:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely. This is essentially a requirement in every country, also in Italy, also in Greece, and so far and so on. So, the assimilation is one of the kind of cornerstones. Of course, there are different degrees, and in the Portuguese case, it's a moderate slash low moderate degree.

• 26:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Okay. And then what are you most excited about moving forward? It seems like Bitcoin's going up a lot. That's good. People are excited about that. But also, it looks like you're trying to figure out what other countries you can go to, you know, if you guys go and penetrate Italy.

• 27:03Speaker 04

  I'm super excited, to be frank, of the Italian route. Why? Because we believe Portugal, even there will be soon some legislative changes, but we believe that Portugal will remain the sort of best option for Europe, because you don't need to move there. So, we believe that even in the medium term, the next five years, we have reasons to believe and a bit of, we know a bit of rumors from, you know, maybe which are going to be the political changes. The legitimate exchanges, we believe Portugal will remain the top one. But Italy, well, everyone I talk to of this program, it's very attractive, to be frank. Very attractive and you never know, maybe your son wants to go there and I don't know,

• 27:44Speaker 04

  just study fashion in Milan or so I'm very excited about Italy. And we are also going to launch a third product in Portugal. So as I told you, you need to invest half a million in the fund for the, you know, the residency and then citizenship pathway. So we are going to launch also a 200,000 euro donation for Portugal in Bitcoin. So you can donate in Bitcoin and we are going to be the first ones offering 200 instead of 250. Of course, this is a donation, so you lose the capital. And you may ask me, why? If I can invest half a million, sometimes, you know, the entry point matters. And some people maybe prefer to say, okay, the entry point is lower.

• 28:29Speaker 04

  I just donate. So I don't believe this is going to be for sure the primary option.

• 28:33Anthony Pompliano?

  On taxes, right? If I have Bitcoin that I bought at a low price and it's appreciated a lot. If I donate it, I don't pay taxes on it. And so it's a way to give away capital gains and get something in return.

• 28:46Speaker 04

  That's great. I never, for all matters of American taxing, I'm always a bit confused, but I, this could be.

• 28:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, don't worry, Americans, we're very well versed in taxes. Our government's constantly, you know, trying to figure out all these different ways. You ever heard of congestion tax? You know what that is?

• 29:02Speaker 04

  No.

• 29:02Anthony Pompliano?

  In Europe, they have it, but now we have it in America. Is the congestion tax is when you drive below a certain street here in New York, below 59th Street, they tax you.

• 29:11Speaker 04

  Oh my, oh yeah.

• 29:12Anthony Pompliano?

  From one side of town to the other side of town. So why you do that? They say, because we want to prevent congestion. So, okay.

• 29:20Speaker 04

  Really too much makes sense, but I have to say New York is amazing energy. I will definitely be here because as I was telling you before, you know, you need places with energy for running businesses and people want to build organically things. But on the other side, it's very expensive. I paid for a sandwich, essentially fifteen bucks.

• 29:36Anthony Pompliano?

  That's cheap.

• 29:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, but it was like a person you get with three. So a joke, actually, I'm going to post a joke online, like saying, if you manage to work remotely from, you know, from Portugal in New York, and you just with the money you save, if you invest in Bitcoin or ETF, you're going to be to retire in five years.

• 29:52Anthony Pompliano?

  One hundred, one hundred percent.

• 29:53Speaker 04

  Seriously, it's Uber. Yesterday, we wanted to get an Uber here was like one hundred sixty dollars, right? In the, it was raining, so there was eventually a.

• 30:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, with the surge pricing and everything.

• 30:06Speaker 04

  For sure, you know, in general, it's fair because it's a market. But on the other hand, there could be places where you can, you know, your morning can buy much more.

• 30:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, the joke in New York, which is a very sad joke, is every time you walk outside of your apartment, hundred dollars. It just somehow, no matter where you go, what you do, right? Go to the grocery store, a hundred dollars. Get in the Uber, go somewhere to eat, a hundred dollars. Like, go to the office somehow, a hundred dollars.

• 30:30Speaker 04

  We have a similar joke, you know, which essentially says, you know, they're going to tax also the hair, the air Uber, right?

• 30:35Anthony Pompliano?

  One hundred percent. If they could figure out how to do that here in America, they would one hundred percent do it, right? They just haven't figured it out yet, so don't give them any ideas. All right, how do people find the product, find you, learn more about this and potentially participate?

• 30:49Speaker 04

  Of course, so you can go online on B Business Ship dot com. It's like citizenship, but with the B, so it's Bitcoin citizenship, B Business Ship dot com. You can apply, we will, you know, our team will contact you within twenty four hours. I'm very much active online if you want to.

• 31:04Anthony Pompliano?

  You guys are working, I see you online.

• 31:06Speaker 04

  I try to do my best, I mean, it's never enough. We are trying to put more, more energy. My ex account is Di Ale Palombo, and I also write a Substack newsletter every, every actually Saturday on a global living, global citizenship. I try to share on, because I live across seven different countries. I built businesses, regulated and non-regulated in major jurisdictions. So I realized that. 很多朋友在问我关于结构上的建议，所以我尝试给出 希望有价值的见解，关于迁址、税务 optimization的结构， 我每天都会写，所以如果你想跟我联系， 你会在palumbo，也就是我的简称，dot substack dot com 和，是的，我们会很高兴与有兴趣的人联系。

• 31:51Speaker 04

  如果你只是在考虑迁址，你知道， 和进入黄金 visa 程序， 我们的团队将能够给你，希望最好的 overview， 而现在，葡萄牙、意大利，我们已经覆盖了， 但我们会很快在其他国家，很快， 当 Famos 允许时。

• 32:05Anthony Pompliano?

  太棒了，你是律师，对吧？

• 32:07Speaker 04

  qualified lawyer

• 32:08Anthony Pompliano?

  那会是一个很棒的律师事务所， Palombo 和 Pompliano， 像，你知道，让我们知道你被车撞了，我们会在那里。

• 32:15Speaker 04

  嗯，是的， 实际上，我认为在美利坚州经营律师事务所，你知道， 你怎么用英语说， 但本质上， 那些实践，当你被车撞了， 这是个好生意。

• 32:28Anthony Pompliano?

  哦，他们愿意为任何事情诉讼，对，100%。 如果你在很多小镇上开车， 你会看到，呃，像伤残律师， 或者像疯狂的东西。

• 32:38Speaker 04

  但这是和欧洲和美国之间的区别， 因为这里，即使在律师事务所宣传， 是允许的。 在意大利，有强烈的限制， 它已经边缘法律， 所以你甚至不能买， 你知道，海报， 或者你甚至不能说你有多少案子， 但是，因为你应该是一个律师，对吧？ 这是最初的

• 32:56Anthony Pompliano?

  是的，当我还是孩子的时候， 他们经常说我要成为一名律师， 因为我喜欢辩论。 我说，看，这是辩论， 你叫它辩论，我叫它辩论。

• 33:03Speaker 04

  它永远不会太晚。

• 33:08Anthony Pompliano?

  你知道，你知道， 有趣的是，在美国， 这是对很多人来说很有趣的地方。 历史上，你不能拥有律师事务所的一部分， 如果你不是律师。

• 33:16Speaker 04

  哦。

• 33:16Anthony Pompliano?

  对，你得是律师，或者怎么样。 但他们改变了规则，在一些州， 现在你可以拥有，我想， 49%的律师事务所，如果你不是律师。

• 33:26Speaker 04

  这发生在一些欧洲国家， 你可以做这些公司， among lawyers， 你可以同时， 人们只参与， 只有资金。 和，是的， 说实话，这很有道理， 因为 sometimes， 我是一个大 believers， 我，我，我，我不会自己，

• 33:40Speaker 04

  I'm a lawyer, but I mean, practicing effectively. I I'm not registered in any barista association and I don't, although I I could by by by right, but I I believe there is a lot of room of improvement on on that side as well. And partially, by the way, my companies, they always deal in one way or the other with legal regulatory issues because just zooming out, you know, I'm I'm, we are as a family and as a business, we're growing really fast as as as business and ship, but um my also my interest and you can find it online also with my other startup. Maybe one day we can discuss about it. I I really believe it's time to make a change on all governmental matters. Because to be frank, uh, you know, there is a, I think we are all frustrated a bit with governments.

• 34:22Speaker 04

  And to be frank, I don't think it's a matter of a particular government failing citizens. I think it's a matter of maybe all systems. In the end, you know, we are using the same systems of 200 years ago. And I think in the next 50 years, there will be a major change on the on that side and

• 34:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Bitcoin is a major change.

• 34:38Speaker 04

  A hundred percent.

• 34:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Right. It's kind of a decentralized digital, you know, technology product that uh, I think has forced a lot of people to think a lot differently.

• 34:47Speaker 04

  And it's crazy if you think that, you know, the major probably obstacle to Bitcoin adoption was eventually an an adversarial government stance, governmental stance. And with the Trump administration, like it or not, you know, there has been an opening from the most important country in the world. And this this changed all the the spectrum for Bitcoin adoption. So right now, you know, better than me, but everyone in finance, you know, eventually until yesterday, literally a bit skeptical. They are all recommending 5% allocation plus. So it's it's a, the the world is changing and sometimes money come first and then governments.

• 35:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's interesting. All right. So bit citizenship. Bittercanship is the way to to say it. All right. It's just, uh, what's the website again?

• 35:29Speaker 04

  W W W dot P D S and ship dot com.

• 35:33Anthony Pompliano?

  So if if you probably search Bitcoin citizenship, you guys are number one, right?

• 35:37Speaker 04

  We hope so. We are trying to work at best on SEO, but for now X or Twitter is

• 35:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Bit bit citizenship, biddishanship, right? All right. So and and on X.

• 35:46Speaker 04

  And on X, of course.

• 35:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Amazing. All right. Well, thank you for doing this.

• 35:49Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 35:50Anthony Pompliano?

  I am, uh, every time I talk to you, I'm super excited about like you guys should keep growing, which is obviously really, uh, really fun and exciting too.

• 35:57Speaker 04

  Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

• 35:58Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. We'll do it again in the future.

• 35:59Speaker 04

  A hundred percent. Thank you so much.