The psychology of uncertainty

Uncertainty is the defining emotion of our 20s. Career paths, relationships, identity, purpose ... so much of this decade is marked by not knowing. Does that have to be as uncomfortable as we think it does? In today’s episode, we unpack the psychology of uncertainty: why our brains fear it, how it triggers anxiety and avoidance, and why trying to “figure it all out” might be doing more harm than good. We explore: The neuroscience behind our discomfort with the unknown Why perfectionism is often a mask for our fear of uncertainty The cultural myths that make us believe we need a step-by-step life plan How to assign meaning to uncertainty and build resilience through it Practical strategies to take action even when the future feels unclear If you've never felt more confused than you do now, and are unsure 'what's next', this episode is for you. Watch on Netflix: HERE https://netflix.com/thepsychologyofyour20s Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg https://www.instagram.com/jemmasbeg/?hl=en# Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast https://www.instagram.com/thatpsychologypodcast/?hl=en# Subscribe on Substack: @thepsychologyofyour20s https://substack.com/@thepsychologyofyour20s For business: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jemma Sbeg?

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favourite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 0:41Jemma Sbeg?

  These days, there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. Your social media feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, and so much more. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy nominated host Trace Dominguez talks to health influencers, real people, and most importantly, doctors, to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to really matters. Listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts. No one's journey is the same. That's why Delta Sky Miles moves with you.

• 1:25Jemma Sbeg?

  Whether it's earning miles from coffee runs to flights to redeeming for vacations your way, or even unlocking exclusive experiences, a Sky Miles membership fits into your lifestyle, letting you do more of what makes you, you. It's more than travel, it's the membership that flies, dines, streams, rides, and arrives with you. Because when you have a membership, that's as unique as you are, there's no telling where your journey will take you next. Growth isn't linear, there's no magic timeline or secret template, and no one understands that quite like Southern New Hampshire University. Because SNHU has online degree programs built for whatever path you are on. Tried college before? Transfer up to 90 credits.

• 2:11Jemma Sbeg?

  And if you're new to this, no worries. Every student gets a dedicated academic advisor. And here's the best part, there's no set class times, so school actually fits your life. Ready to get started? Visit SNHU.edu/psych. That's SNHU.edu/psych. You know that feeling when your skin just needs a tall drink of water? That's what Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour Moisturizer is for. Moisture Surge 100 Hour Moisturizer absorbs instantly and hydrates for 100 hours for plump, glowing skin. That's right, 100 hours.

• 2:52Jemma Sbeg?

  It is a lightweight, oil-free gel cream, safe for sensitive skin, it's allergy-tested and fragrance-free. I use this all the time, it makes my skin feel so fresh and plump and glowy. Even under makeup, I still see an amazing difference. It never leaves my skin oily or tacky. Try Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour today at clinique.com. Feels like Moisture Surge.

• 3:25Jemma Sbeg?

  Hello, everybody. I'm Jemma Sbeg and welcome back to the Psychology of Your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.

• 3:45Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is a rerun. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show, welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of your 20s. Today, to just jump straight to the chase, we are talking about perhaps one of the most defining parts of our 20s, the overwhelming uncertainty of just being in this decade. If this decade had one word to describe it, one theme to trump them all, it would be uncertainty.

• 4:25Jemma Sbeg?

  We are lost in this very weird haze of not really knowing who we are, not really knowing what the future holds, what's going to happen with our jobs, with our friends, with our finances, with our love lives. And even once you think you have some part of it figured out, another part of your life suddenly crumbles and you're kind of just left feeling as lost as you were before. So I got this DM from a listener the other day that I wanted to share, which really inspired me to talk about this. Because going back through the archives, I realized we have never sat down and done a full episode dedicated to this feeling, despite it being, I would say, universal. This is what her DM said.

• 5:07Jemma Sbeg?

  "Hi Gemma, I'm in my 20s, like I'm sure most of your listeners are, so there must be others who relate to this feeling. My dilemma is that everyone tells me to just try something and that it doesn't matter what path I'm taking in my 20s as long as I'm moving forward. What really paralyzes me, though, is not knowing whether the path I choose to take will make me happy, or at least happier than any other path. When I visualize my future, it just feels like a big ominous grey cloud and I can't help but feel like if I just knew one part of the story, I could decide once and for all what direction to take. How do I deal with my fear of uncertainty? It's the biggest thing holding me back." I just knew like instantly upon reading this, how many of us, and I can include myself

• 5:52Jemma Sbeg?

  in this group, can relate to that feeling. The feeling that our futures are not necessarily exciting, but actually really scary and really ominous. And a lot of that fear of the unknown really fuels indecision and it fuels not making decisions that are important to make at this stage in our life, which of course fuels later dissatisfaction. But I think when you understand why we feel such uncertainty to begin with, why it is human nature to turn away from the unknown, but also how we can shift our feelings about uncertainty so that it feels less scary, that is when this sensation has less control of you. You know, you're no longer fighting a losing battle against it.

• 6:38Jemma Sbeg?

  Uncertainty can become perhaps your sign that you're going in the right direction, it can be a sign of growth, it can be a sign that you are trying new things and you're expanding as a person. So you welcome it, you welcome the sensation rather than running away from it. If that sounds kind of implausible and out of reach, let me explain how exactly we can get to that point. If you want to get to that place, we're going to have to make uncertainty feel like an asset. And we need to have a better strategy for coping with this feeling. And so that is exactly what we are going to talk about today. How we can celebrate rather than fear the unknown, how we can integrate this feeling

• 7:21Jemma Sbeg?

  into our life plan, see it as a sign, but also some of the origins of why we feel this way, not just in our 20s, but as a species. All of that and more, and so much psychology, so stay with us.

• 7:38Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favourite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 8:15Jemma Sbeg?

  These days, there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. And we've all gone down an internet rabbit hole exploring the latest health trends. Your social media feed is packed with wellness advice, telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeart Media's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to health influencers, real

• 8:57Jemma Sbeg?

  people, and most importantly, doctors, to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 9:15Jemma Sbeg?

  Growth isn't linear. There's no magic timeline or secret template. And no one understands that quite like Southern New Hampshire University. Because SNHU has online degree programs built for whatever path you are on. Tried college before? Transfer up to 90 credits. And if you're new to this, no worries. Every student gets a dedicated academic advisor. And here's the best part, there's no set class times. So school actually fits your life. Ready to get started? Visit SNHU.edu/psych. That's SNHU.edu/psych. Something that really frustrates me is when wellness brands greenwash their products

• 9:59Jemma Sbeg?

  to make them seem more clean or better for the environment when they are actually not. When you look into it, they are kind of just like the rest of them. Nature's Sunshine, however, doesn't just talk about the planet. They do something about it. They sustainably source ingredients. They craft their supplements with 100% solar powered manufacturing. And their products are incredible. I don't drink coffee. And so Nature's Sunshine Brain Edge gives me that kick I sometimes need with potent ingredients. Combining yerba mate with nootropics, adaptogens, botanicals to support mental clarity and focus. And you already know how much I love their marine glow and have for years. It is the only collagen that combines skin supporting marine collagen with the sun and

• 10:43Jemma Sbeg?

  blue light protection of luton to make your skin feel and look glowy and protected. Plus, I just really like that they have nature at the core of everything that they do. Try Nature's Sunshine and experience the difference with supplements that are better for you and the planet. Go to naturessunshine.com today and use the code PSYCH for 20% off your first order plus free shipping. That's code PSYCH for 20% off your first order at naturessunshine.com.

• 11:14Jemma Sbeg?

  You know that feeling when your skin just needs a tall drink of water? That's what Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour Moisturizer is for. Moisture Surge 100 Hour Moisturizer absorbs instantly and hydrates for 100 hours for plump glowing skin. That is correct, 100 hours. It is a lightweight, oil-free gel cream, safe for sensitive skin. It's allergy tested, it's fragrance free, it absorbs quickly. So skin feels hydrated without feeling heavy or weighed down. I use this daily and I'm very picky with what goes on my skin. I have a combination skin type, so I really don't want to feel too oily or too dry.

• 11:58Jemma Sbeg?

  And this product is perfect for that. I also find that Moisture Surge is a great lightweight base. If you like something under your makeup, it makes your skin look so plump and soft, especially first thing in the morning when it's maybe not looking that way. Basically, I think it feels exactly like how you want a moisturizer to feel. Fresh, lightweight, and deeply hydrating. Try Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour today at Clinique.com. Feels like Moisture Surge.

• 12:29Jemma Sbeg?

  My fear of uncertainty, I think, definitely shifted when I realized that uncertainty is the opposite of boredom and predictability. If I knew exactly how my life was going to turn out, if I knew what was around every single corner, the name of every single friend I would meet, my entire resume until the time I retire, yes, I would feel less uncertain. But what would the point of being alive even be? I think the newness of life, the experiences, the surprises, they are really what makes this whole thing worthwhile in a sense. You can't have surprises, you can't have unexpected joy, you can't learn, you can't have excitement and anticipation without uncertainty.

• 13:12Jemma Sbeg?

  It is a core ingredient in so many otherwise really amazing and pleasurable experiences. And that's what I'm personally learning to appreciate and focus on when I do have those very natural moments of being paralyzed by all that I don't know yet. I'm kind of jumping the gun here. Yes, uncertainty may have its upsides. We definitely can think about it differently. But why do we even experience it to begin with? And what makes it so fricking uncomfortable? That's really what we have to nail down first. Like I said in the beginning, uncertainty in our twenties are basically two peas in a pod for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I want you to give yourself some grace.

• 13:55Jemma Sbeg?

  You are doing everything for the first time ever, basically. You are basically an adult toddler or an adult child who, yes, can read, hopefully, and can write, and is hopefully potty trained and all those things. But you are now experiencing the next level of situations, the next level of learning experiences that are emotionally complex and not straightforward. And as you're experiencing that, you also are without the same safety net that you relied upon when you were younger. And you're without the reassurance and the security of teachers and parents and a school system and a societal system that hopefully isn't going to let you fall through the cracks. You're on your own.

• 14:39Jemma Sbeg?

  And uncertainty therefore feels a lot more alarming because you feel like you're the one who is going to hold the burden, experience the full burden of any poor decision or any poor outcome you made. It's all on you at this point. Another element of this is that because you are an adult toddler, you haven't had enough life experience yet to know that things will eventually work out for you, even if they don't the first time, even if they are not working out right now. People in their 40s and their 50s and later, they know that the breakup isn't the end of the world because they've experienced them and survived before. They know making a major mistake or losing a friend or losing a job isn't the end of

• 15:24Jemma Sbeg?

  the world because they have evidence from previous life experience to tell them that. But you, you don't have those same data points. You don't have that same catalog of examples that tell you everything is going to be okay. Uncertainty for you and uncertainty for a lot of us in our twenties doesn't have a conclusion the way that it has for people who are older. Then of course, just to add even more fuel to the fire, there's the fact that you're kind of living between milestones. And this decade is definitely one of perpetual transition. You know, you're no longer a teenager, but you know, you don't really feel like an adult yet.

• 16:06Jemma Sbeg?

  You're not at that financial level, you're not settled in a career, you're not settled in a relationship, the way that you expect adults to be. What are you really? It's what psychologists call a liminal space, the in-between. And liminal emotional spaces are by nature, by definition, disorientating because they don't come with a clear script. And of course, there's no accurate way, and there's no one who's going to be able to tell you, like, okay, you're doing, you're doing well, you're doing fine, you are being, you are successful. Earlier in life, this is something I talk to people about all the time.

• 16:45Jemma Sbeg?

  Earlier in life, your entire days, weeks, months are set up in a structure that will tell you if you are doing well. There are clear benchmarks for life performance. Things like grades, things like passing to the next year level, things like a whole cohort of people in the same situation at the same time and the same age as you, with whom you can mark your progress against. And they're probably all in the same environment, like at school. You don't have that anymore. You don't have that same framework to look around and think, okay, I'm doing okay or I'm not doing okay. And these are the areas I can improve or these are the areas that I'm excelling.

• 17:30Jemma Sbeg?

  You don't have that anymore. And it might seem really arbitrary, but those social structures and those environmental structures and that context actually provides a great deal of, and a great sense of calm and stability. So you have during this decade, almost suddenly lost a lot of what previously allowed you to stay grounded, security, structure, direction. And of course, finally, what may feel like a curse, but certainly isn't, is the fact that as a generation, we have more choices than ever. We really do. And it's a beautiful thing and everyone tells us we're very privileged. We also know that that creates a real paradox of choice that can be quite stifling.

• 18:12Jemma Sbeg?

  You know, it is amazing that when we're in our twenties, like 80% of the doors are open to us. Definitely there are some things that we probably can't do anymore. You know, unfortunately, you're probably not going to become an Olympic gymnast if you haven't been training since you were a trial. But in general, you know, you're at the start line of pretty much everything else. All the doors are open. Do you know how utterly terrifying that actually is? You probably do because you're experiencing it. But it certainly does feel like with each decision you make, the more doors you seem to close with no certainty around whether you might actually want to go back through that door later and no certainty around what might happen next.

• 18:55Jemma Sbeg?

  Closing those doors seems a lot more scary than it does fulfilling. So you do nothing. You're paralyzed by choice and the endless pro-cons list that we know as decision paralysis. That's really the 20-something explanation for uncertainty. There's also a more human explanation as to why uncertainty in any capacity, not just when it comes to the big ticket items of our twenties, is so uncomfortable for us as a species. To firstly really state the obvious, our brains, they are wired to seek out stability and clarity because when something is known and familiar, there are of course, less opportunities for danger and threats.

• 19:40Jemma Sbeg?

  Now, the part of our brain that controls this primal urge, there's two specific regions actually. It's the prefrontal cortex, so right up here at the front, and the limbic system, which is really deep inside our brain. It's part of what we call the old brain. A series of studies done in the early 2000s basically found that when we are exposed to ambiguous things like an ambiguous image or ambiguous scenery, the limbic system, particularly the amygdala, light up. Even when these participants were in a laboratory setting where there is no immediate danger, your brain is always going to respond over cautiously and over zealously to something it doesn't understand, such as the unknowns of the future.

• 20:27Jemma Sbeg?

  But that feeling is also something that we can't suppress. It's automatic and for good reason, you know, we want that part of us that assesses danger to not be reliant on our judgment and to be able to act quick. And, you know, the reason that we have such an aversion to uncertainty is primarily rooted in the fact that we needed to in order to survive. When you face an unknown, you know, your brain will immediately seek out as much information as it can, real or imagined, to fill the gaps. Our brain is wired to do this. You might know this by another term, which is catastrophizing. Your brain is trying to figure out what's every possible thing that's going to happen here. It's going to simulate outcomes, it's going to generate predictions.

• 21:13Jemma Sbeg?

  The problem is, it actually has no idea what's going to happen. So it serves up all these situations, some of them completely impossible, some of them maybe more likely. We can't always discern or tell the difference between what is more likely and what is less likely. We are just receiving information from this very old, ancient part of our brain. And we're experiencing it as it comes. We're experiencing all the fear as it comes without being able to interrupt that and say, wait, how do I, why do I think this? How do I know this is going to happen? Oh, wait, I actually don't. So this brings me to a next point. A lot of our anxiety and our fears don't actually emerge from necessarily something

• 21:56Jemma Sbeg?

  having gone wrong in actuality, but from the question of what if? What if this happens? What if this even worse thing happens? What if the worst thing happens? This is because our brain will stay in this loop of providing us with potential outcomes until it has some kind of resolution or closure. It doesn't want to switch off the alarm system until the reason for the alarm has been given meaning or it's identified what the problem was. And like I said, in the past, that was useful. Now it's just plain old annoying. It's annoying. And your uncertainty is meant to feel that way. It's meant to feel annoying and awful and frustrating because, again, it wants to keep

• 22:40Jemma Sbeg?

  you alert, it wants to grab your attention, like a big shiny billboard or a big red stop sign. It wants you to be looking straight at it. It wants you to be directing. It's focused onto the thing you don't understand and that you're unsure about so that you can provide it with a sense of closure. The thing is, if you give your anxiety and your fear of the unknown an answer, if you give yourself a reason for the uncertainty, more specifically, you give it a purpose, it will actually go away. We are going to discuss that more in a second, so just bear with me. But it's also important as well, before we move on, to understand that how you experience uncertainty in your twenties is not the same as how everyone else is going to experience this feeling.

• 23:25Jemma Sbeg?

  So you can't beat yourself up if you feel like you are struggling with it more than others. Psychologists in the early nineties, they identified what they called an intolerance for uncertainty spectrum. Basically, they found that where you sit in terms of your tolerance or intolerance for uncertainty will determine how much information you think you need before you make a decision. They discovered this spectrum almost by accident. They were actually trying to determine what personality traits caused anxiety. And in that research, what they kept realizing that was that a number of their participants all reported the same experience, the sense that they weren't necessarily scared about

• 24:10Jemma Sbeg?

  what was going to happen, they just really wanted to know what was going to happen. And these same people were the ones who would read ahead in books, even if they were excited by the plotline. They would read spoilers in the papers of movies that they were really eager to see, even though they knew it was going to kind of ruin the enjoyment. They would also at times make more impulsive decisions in their relationships when they felt something was fading or feeling off, not because they necessarily wanted the relationship to end, but because to them, and this kept coming up over and over again, a known bad outcome was better than an unknown good outcome. These same individuals were also, surprise, surprise, more likely to have a diagnosis of generalized anxiety disorder.

• 24:56Jemma Sbeg?

  Most people in society and in our world will score in the middle of this spectrum for an intolerance for uncertainty. But people who score higher, probably like you and I, tend to spend a lot more time ruminating on the future than being in the present moment, and they just can't help it. Someone with a high intolerance for uncertainty, they might make lists repeatedly, they plan out conversations in their head, they look at food menus well before they're going to a restaurant, just to make sure that they know that there's something they're going to like and they know what they're going to order. They triple check driving routes, they do all these things, basically to calm this sense

• 25:39Jemma Sbeg?

  that if I don't know, well, then something's going to go wrong. This cloud ahead of me, it can only be dangerous. If this is you, your twenties are naturally, and I'm sorry to say it, they are going to feel a lot more stressful and they're going to feel harder than someone who can naturally go with the flow because you are constantly being bombarded with unknowns and it's not you, it's this decade. I promise you, I'm going to give you some good news and some solutions in just a second, but I do want to talk about what can happen if we let uncertainty force us into a corner or force us into a place of inaction.

• 26:19Jemma Sbeg?

  Because uncertainty is so uncomfortable, it can be a very powerful maladaptive motivator, i.e. something that motivates us to do things that are actually against our interests. And it's really important that we are aware of that so that when we pause and are choosing whether to act, whether not to act, we can carefully examine whether this is in our best interest or just because we are scared of an outcome that is no more or less likely than any other outcome. The ways this shows up in our twenties could be a very long list, but I'm going to keep it brief and I want to scare you. I'm just going to touch on two of the big consequences of letting this feeling rule your life.

• 27:00Jemma Sbeg?

  Firstly, you accept what you don't deserve and also less than what you're capable of and less than what you've actually worked for. It's like what I said before, a known bad outcome over an unknown good outcome is what you prefer. And how that might look like is accepting the first grad offer because you're scared of not getting another, even though you don't really want the job. Accepting the first person who, I don't know, starts talking to you on Hinge because you're scared that no one else will talk to you and you're scared of what it will mean to be single after a certain age. You choose the first apartment you see, the first car you try out, you go to the same

• 27:40Jemma Sbeg?

  places on the same trips over and over again because an uncertain outcome, even if there is chance that it could be amazing, you don't want to take that risk. Bear in mind, I have no judgment on this, I have done this myself. All of that is basically anecdotal. All that is basically my lived experience because I am someone who is in this, in the same boat with you. The second consequence of a failure to embrace uncertainty in our twenties is that we actually don't act at all. We don't choose any job, we don't choose any partner, because what if it's not the right one? You know, in the first scenario, we chose the first thing, in this scenario, we don't choose anything at all.

• 28:23Jemma Sbeg?

  It probably won't surprise you that perfectionism and the fear of uncertainty are actually, in fact, sisters. They are, they're incredibly aligned. In fact, I personally think that perfectionism is basically just the fear of uncertainty with a different name. It's like a subgenre of the feeling. Perfectionism often disguises itself as ambition or high standards or great expectations for yourself, but underneath it's usually just fear. It's just a fear of the unknown, the fear of what failure might bring, the fear of making the wrong move. It is actually less about doing things perfectly and more about trying to eliminate the possibility of regret.

• 29:07Jemma Sbeg?

  That's what makes it a close relative of uncertainty. They both come from a deep discomfort with not knowing how things will turn out. Think of perfectionism in this case as kind of like an emotional armor. If I just plan enough, if I delayed the decision long enough, if I do everything just right, then maybe, maybe I can avoid disappointment. But what you're really doing is just trying to outrun uncertainty. A 2022 study actually looked at a group of students to determine whether perfectionism meant people were less quick to act when it came to making a decision. They asked these students to complete a questionnaire, which would essentially rank each student based on perfectionist tendencies. So the most perfectionist down to the least perfectionist.

• 29:52Jemma Sbeg?

  And then they asked those students to consider a bunch of would you rather questions. So would you rather, I don't know, this or that? Would you rather X or Y? There was about, I think, 50 of them, 50 scenarios, and they measured how long it took them to complete these entire range of scenarios. The top 25% of perfectionists took the same amount of time combined to complete the exercise as the remaining 75% of students. They took so much longer because they were sat there considering wanting to make the perfect choice. The thing is, opportunities don't always wait for us to make up our minds.

• 30:36Jemma Sbeg?

  Big decisions aren't always going to let you delay them. They will find the next person or they will disappear. A big part of our twenties is being able to say yes to that thing that feels really scary. Yes, I'm going to try. Yes, I don't know what's going to happen, let me just do it anyways. But when you are battling the fear of all fears, the fear of the unknown, it's going to be a lot harder for you.

• 31:05Jemma Sbeg?

  Finally, I'm here to give you some good news. This is actually something you can change and it's something that many people have proven to themselves that they are able to overcome. So I want to explain exactly how you can do this, including something you could literally do in the next five minutes if you wanted to, that will allow you to better act on your dreams, on the opportunities, on the desires of our twenties. So we're going to talk about all of that and so much more after this short break.

• 31:39Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 32:16Jemma Sbeg?

  These days, there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. And we've all gone down an internet rabbit hole exploring the latest health trends. Your social media feed is packed with wellness advice, telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel and YouTube, talks to health influencers, real

• 32:57Jemma Sbeg?

  people, and most importantly, doctors, to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 33:16Jemma Sbeg?

  Growth isn't linear. There's no magic timeline or secret template. And no one understands that quite like Southern New Hampshire University, because SNHU has online degree programs built for whatever path you are on. Tried college before? Transfer up to 90 credits. And if you're new to this, no worries. Every student gets a dedicated academic advisor. And here's the best part, there's no set class times. So school actually fits your life. Ready to get started? Visit SNHU.edu/psych. That's SNHU.edu/psych. Something that really frustrates me is when wellness brands greenwash their products

• 33:59Jemma Sbeg?

  to make them seem more clean or better for the environment, when they are actually not. When you look into it, they are kind of just like the rest of them. Nature Sunshine, however, doesn't just talk about the planet. They do something about it. They sustainably source ingredients. They craft their supplements with 100% solar powered manufacturing and their products are incredible. I don't drink coffee and so Nature Sunshine Brain Edge gives me that kick I sometimes need with potent ingredients, combining yerba mate with nootropics, adaptogens, botanicals to support mental clarity and focus. And you already know how much I love their marine glow and have for years. It is the only collagen that combines skin supporting marine collagen with the sun and

• 34:44Jemma Sbeg?

  blue light protection of luton to make your skin feel and look glowy and protected. Plus, I just really like that they have nature at the core of everything that they do. Try Nature's Sunshine and experience the difference with supplements that are better for you and the planet. Go to naturessunshine.com today and use the code PSYCH for 20% off your first order plus free shipping. That's code PSYCH for 20% off your first order at naturessunshine.com.

• 35:15Jemma Sbeg?

  You know that feeling when your skin just needs a tall drink of water? That's what Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour Moisturizer is for. Moisture Surge 100 Hour Moisturizer absorbs instantly and hydrates for 100 hours for plump, glowing skin. That is correct, 100 hours. It is a lightweight, oil-free gel cream, safe for sensitive skin. It's allergy tested, it's fragrance free, it absorbs quickly, so skin feels hydrated without feeling heavy or weighed down. I use this daily and I'm very picky with what goes on my skin. I have a combination skin type, so I really don't want to feel too oily or too dry.

• 35:58Jemma Sbeg?

  And this product is perfect for that. I also find that Moisture Surge is a great lightweight base. If you like something under your makeup, it makes your skin look so plump and soft, especially first thing in the morning when it's maybe not looking that way. Basically, I think it feels exactly like how you want a moisturizer to feel. Fresh, lightweight, and deeply hydrating. Try Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour today at clinique.com. Feels like Moisture Surge. Okay, so we are back talking about uncertainty in our twenties. And luckily for us, we are actually not the first generation to feel this way, nor will we be the last.

• 36:41Jemma Sbeg?

  And that's good news because it means that there are a lot of people who have come up with some really amazing approaches to this feeling that helped get them through this period of discomfort and which will hopefully help you as well. The biggest thing we can do for our uncertainty in our twenties, and I've been hinting at this for the entire episode, is to basically assign it a purpose. Because that satisfies our deeper desire for a reason, a meaning, and kind of just a sense of why. Why is this happening? The purpose you assign to your uncertainty, it could be that you see this as a learning opportunity. It could be that you view uncertainty as a rite of passage.

• 37:24Jemma Sbeg?

  It could be that uncertainty is a sign that you're opening yourself up to new things, which is scary. It could be a call to surrender and just to accept life as it is. It could be a real spiritual thing. It could be that uncertainty just makes for a really good story. And you value a good story and you can't have one without uncertainty. Whatever it is, whatever makes uncertainty feel meaningful to you, hone in on that. Anytime you feel overwhelmed by the feeling, remind yourself, okay, but this has a purpose. This has a meaning. For me, I personally think of uncertainty as a sign that I am about to really grow

• 38:07Jemma Sbeg?

  as a person and for lack of a better word, I'm about to level up. Every time I have ever felt scared, lost, uncertain, it has always been the beginning of something just over the horizon that I haven't been able to see yet. Like, it always signals to me that like something really big is about to come. That way now, now that I know that's its purpose, I actually almost get excited when I'm feeling that way. I feel like I get kind of giddy, I'm like ready to be surprised, and I really feel like I'm in preparation mode for whatever is about to happen next. The reason this works is because when we assign a role to our uncertainty, this actually gives us a cognitive framework through which we can accept it, through which we can just

• 38:51Jemma Sbeg?

  let it exist and actually focus on what we need to focus on. We give the annoying voice a job. It's like when a toddler, I don't know if you've been around kids a lot, but when like a toddler or a child is being really annoying, so you tell them they have to rearrange all the pens, or they have to divide up all their dolls, or pick up something like rice, I don't know. You give them a job so you can get to work. You like, you give the annoying voice somewhere, someone else to talk to or something else to do. The second way to really confront your uncertainty is also to look for stories of people who didn't have it all figured out, or whom dealt with supreme uncertainty and came out the

• 39:33Jemma Sbeg?

  other side, rather than just looking for people who seem like a natural A to B success story. The natural success stories are all we seem to see these days. So you would think that most people who you admire have never struggled the way that you do and that you have. That's false. It's a huge lie, it's a big myth. When you start collecting these stories, you will find that almost every single person who has made something of themselves has an uncertainty story. Dochi, for example, that's one I've recently added to my list, the woman of the hour. She posted a YouTube video back in 2020, only like five years ago, about how she got fired from her job.

• 40:15Jemma Sbeg?

  And in it, she's like, tomorrow, I'm just gonna door knock at a bunch of studios and just see if they will give me an internship. She just won a Grammy. Five years ago, she was completely unsure of where she was gonna end up. And she ended up in the right place because she leant into it. The founder of Spanx, she's another one on my list. She used to sell fax machines like door to door. Now she runs a billion dollar industry. Stephen King, he's another one. His like draft for his book Carrie, which is now a cult classic, a favorite of so many. He literally threw that manuscript in the trash after it was rejected 30 times. And that book is a cultural icon.

• 40:59Jemma Sbeg?

  I even think of my mom, like my mom is the one that often comes to mind for me. You know, she was kicked out of university because she got such poorly bad grades, they basically expelled her. And then she took a year off to travel, she didn't really know what she wanted to do. She came back, she did something different and she graduated with a top job. And now she's like this incredibly powerful, successful girl boss. All these people and you have something very important in common. In their journey to success and to wherever they ended up, there were moments when they had absolutely no idea what was next. And they just had to bet on themselves and they just had to trust that they were capable.

• 41:43Jemma Sbeg?

  And once you start searching for these stories, you will see them everywhere. You will see them constantly until one day you'll have your own version of this story, your own version of how you overcame uncertainty, how in hindsight, the path was actually so clear the entire time. Another small thing you can do, and it's gonna sound so miniscule and silly, you might be tempted to skip it, please don't. I want you to make a playlist that you feel represents yourself and play it whenever you feel uncomfortable or confused as a way to really just bring yourself back and center yourself, even if it doesn't necessarily help you feel less uncertain. It can just help you with.

• 42:29Jemma Sbeg?

  The general feelings of discomfort and strangeness that you may be having. And just as like a fun thing to do, a fun thing to do to remind yourself of who you are, of who you wanna be, of what your core values are, all through music. These songs reflect how you see yourself back at you. And that is a very special, familiar, beautiful feeling. There's actually this brilliant 2014 paper from a researcher in Texas that talks about how music contributes to the formation of our identity and can help us trust ourselves more because it acts as a touchstone when we feel challenged. It represents all the times we have previously overcome challenges, all the times we've

• 43:13Jemma Sbeg?

  previously experienced joy. And the music we choose really does reflect our values and says something about how we see ourselves. And so when you're kind of externally lost and don't really know who you are and can't really find your way back, music is just like beautiful anchor. You know, I have a playlist like this. The playlist is called If Gemma Was A Playlist. And I was listening to it literally the other day and it has songs from 2016 all the way up to last week. And it's really a beautiful way to see how I have transformed, to be able to categorically see different chapters in my life and what was happening during them. Like, and the music brings back all those memories and also just to see how far I've come. And so it's something you can literally take five minutes to for yourself right now.

• 43:58Jemma Sbeg?

  It's a fun exercise. I promise you, it will help you ground yourself during this like crazy chaotic period. On a much larger scale, the biggest antidote for uncertainty is really just this. Just try something, try anything, choose something that interests you to get good at. And when that thing stops serving you, choose something else. We have to let go of this idea that every decision you make in life has to naturally flow into the next and the next and the next, and that you have to have some step by step plan that you can follow for your life. Your life is not a recipe. You're not making a cake, you're not cooking sourdough.

• 44:43Jemma Sbeg?

  Like, it's a series of experiments that take you to different places that you didn't even know you were going to get to. And when you give yourself permission to just try, you really break this cycle of needing to know. You break this cycle of needing to have all the answers. And you move as well from that rumination spiral of, am I doing the right thing? Is this the best choice? To just knowing that if you're taking action and if you're doing something, you are making the right choice. Even in perfect action, even the wrong choice is still a better choice than not doing anything at all. And it also gives you data, it gives you experience, it gives you stories.

• 45:26Jemma Sbeg?

  A question to really ask yourself as well, if you're kind of thinking, okay, that's great, but which direction should I choose? Especially if you're someone who has a lot of hobbies and interests and passions and ambitions. The question to ask yourself is just, what would make me most disappointed if I didn't do this?

• 45:46Jemma Sbeg?

  What would I be most regretful around not doing in 20 years' time? This mentally makes you kind of compute how much you have to lose by not acting, rather than getting you stuck in this spiral of how much you have to lose by acting. It reminds me of this quote, "You could take a million detours to your destination and still get there faster than someone who never got in the car." And that's the idea I really wanna leave you with today. Uncertainty in our twenties is inevitable, but it's actually a really profound sign that you're expanding and you are growing and you are reaching new spaces you haven't yet experienced. That's a good thing.

• 46:30Jemma Sbeg?

  Like, congratulations, if you're feeling uncertain, that is such a beautiful sign. And I wish I could give you all the applause for just trying and pushing yourself into new places and spaces. I know it feels uncomfortable, but I promise you that this discomfort has a purpose that you cannot yet see. Lean into it, assign it a purpose while you're waiting and just act, do anything, even if it's small things. I think that that's a great solution for avoiding a worse discomfort of looking back at your life and realising that you never did anything because you were scared of the unknown, when the unknown is something that we always have to exist side by side with.

• 47:13Jemma Sbeg?

  And the only way to escape the unknown is to create a known, is to create a reality that you do really enjoy and that works for you. And the only way you can do that is through action. So that's a rather simple message, but also deeply complex message, if you think about it, to end the episode with. I just hope that it brings you a sense of comfort that you're not the only one going through it. And that I totally know it's gonna work out for you. It's totally gonna work out for you. I know that. I can give you that promise right now. So thank you so much for listening. If you have made it this far, let's leave a little emoji in the comments below that represents how you're feeling about your life, how uncertainty feels in your body right now, just so I know if you've made it this far, if you're one of the loyal listeners.

• 47:57Jemma Sbeg?

  Make sure that you are following along or subscribed wherever you're listening, on YouTube, on Spotify, Apple, whatever one. And give us a five star review if you feel called to do so. It really does help the show grow and reach new audiences, and you fantastic, wonderful twenty-somethings and older. Also, make sure you're following us on Instagram at That Psychology Podcast if you wanna be part of future episodes, if you wanna DM me episode suggestions, if you have questions, dilemmas, you may even be able to be featured in an episode just like this one. So follow me over there. And until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself, especially in the face of uncertainty. We will talk very, very soon.

• 48:45Jemma Sbeg?

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• 49:22Jemma Sbeg?

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• 50:06Jemma Sbeg?

  intentional and meant that I make smarter decisions day to day about what I need, rather than just putting my foot on the gas and just going, going, going, going. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join.whoop.com/psychology for your free month of Whoop. Hi, this is Jemma Sbeg. Taking care of yourself doesn't have to mean completely changing your routine. Naturewise Vitamin D3 is an easy way to support immune, bone and muscle health every single day. And because quality matters, Naturewise has one of the first NSF certified vitamin D3 currently on the market.

• 50:49Jemma Sbeg?

  Plus, it's non-GMO, gluten free and third party tested. Visit naturewise.com to explore their vitamin D3 options and find the one that's right for you, naturewise.com. You know that feeling when your skin just needs a tall drink of water? That's what Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour Moisturizer is for. Moisture Surge 100 Hour Moisturizer absorbs instantly and hydrates for 100 hours for plump, glowing skin. That's right, 100 hours. It is a lightweight, oil-free gel cream, safe for sensitive skin, it's allergy tested and fragrance free. I use this all the time.

• 51:31Jemma Sbeg?

  It makes my skin feel so fresh and plump and glowy. Even under makeup, I still see an amazing difference. It never leaves my skin oily or tacky. Try Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour today at clinique.com. Feels like moisture surge.

• 51:51Speaker 01

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• 52:21Speaker 02

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