174. Reddit Scary Stories: Stalkers, Setups, and a Serial Killer (feat. Psychopedia)

Today. Slater and I are reading Reddit scary stories about close encounters with people who were not who they said they were. A man offers a woman her dream job, but the company doesn't exist!? A friendly neighbor starts knowing things he was never told. A first date takes a deliberate detour. And a hitchhiker carrying a small child through a Montana blizzard may have been one of the most dangerous predators in American history. TW: Abduction Find Investigator Slater & Psychopedia here!! @investigatorslater @psychopediapod Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/pw/podcast/psychopedia-true-crime-criminal-psychology/id1677222172 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2LBNRJG9B8vrruJNAuHsxp?si=ff9f7d7bdfbc4a4e Patreon: https://patreon.com/PsychopediaPod?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_fan&utm_content=copyLink https://patreon.com/PsychopediaPod?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_fan&utm_content=copyLink Subscribe on⁠ Patreon⁠ https://www.patreon.com/heartstartspounding to become a member of our Rogue Detecting Society and enjoy ad-free listening, monthly bonus content, merch discounts and more. Members of our High Council on Patreon also have access to our weekly after-show, Footnotes, where I share my case file with our producer, Matt. You can also enjoy many of these same perks, including ad-free listening and bonus content when you subscribe on Apple Podcasts. Follow on⁠ Tik Tok⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@heartstartspounding?lang=en and⁠ Instagram⁠ https://www.instagram.com/heartstartspounding/ for a daily dose of horror.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Kaelyn Moore?

  Welcome back to another episode of Heart Starts Pounding, a podcast of horrors, hauntings, and mysteries. As always, I'm your host, Kayla Moore. Now, you guys know that I do love having friends over here at the Rogue Detecting Society Headquarters, and today I have a very special friend back for you. It's Investigator Slater from the Psychopedia Podcast. And today, we're going to talk about very strange and unsettling encounters. These are Reddit stories that kept me up all night. I think you guys are going to enjoy these a lot. I loved having Slater over because I've actually done quite a bit of redecorating over here at the Rogue Detecting Society Headquarters. As you guys have heard, I ordered a lot of stuff from your small businesses in March. And now, when I look around the Rogue Detecting Society, I see a reflection of you all. My coasters, my mugs, my blankets, some candles, all from you guys.

• 0:46Kaelyn Moore?

  And I absolutely love that. I would not have it any other way. And to say thank you for Slater popping by, I'm going to send her a candle from Wicked Wick Candle Company as a little housewarming gift. All right, I want to get straight into this episode and show you guys the scary stories I found. So let's get into it. Slater, welcome back to Heart Starts Pounding.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Thank you. I'm so happy to be back.

• 1:08Kaelyn Moore?

  It's good to have you back.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  It is great to be back. This is my favorite place to be.

• 1:12Kaelyn Moore?

  We did an episode last, I think, end of the summer last year, and it crushed. It was another one of like very scary encounters that people have had. And I don't know what it is about these terrifying encounters, but I think a lot of people in the audience resonate very deeply with them.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  It's very relatable content, which is terrifying. And then I hope you and I can like break it down a little bit and make it a little less terrifying. Like, let's confront the anxieties that arise from these stories, and let's tackle it.

• 1:40Kaelyn Moore?

  Yes, because it's like the anxiety of this happening to you. But then I think a lot of people actually have stories of things like this happening to them. Actually, last time, we, if you haven't watched that episode, I highly recommend everyone go listen to it and watch it. But we talked about, I think that was the one where we talked about there was like a pregnant woman, and someone was like, "You should come to my house. You should come to my house." And the amount of pregnant women that reached out afterwards being like, the exact same thing happened to me. Like, once I was visibly pregnant, I felt like I was a target.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 2:09Kaelyn Moore?

  And people knew I was vulnerable and they would follow me. And that, that was really eye opening for me.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  That's beyond terrifying. Yeah. Cause you're, you're protective, obviously of yourself, but I mean, you're coming at me and now my baby? Like, that's petrifying.

• 2:24Kaelyn Moore?

  Yes. And I can't run away. Oh, you're so vulnerable in that place, but...

• 2:29Speaker 01

  I think we also talked about, like, terrifying events that have happened, like, on campgrounds, like, summer camps and stuff like that we talked about, which, like, still haunts me. Some of, some of the, what we were talking about, it was so scary.

• 2:43Kaelyn Moore?

  We, and we just did an episode where we were doing listener stories and I had a listener write in, who, she used to go, or no, she worked at a Catholic summer camp. And aside from, I mean, we did like a terrifying encounter of someone who lived near the, the summer camp and was chasing the kids, but that one was, like, there were, there was some sort of, like, demon or something in her cabin at the summer camp. So, summer camps in general are just very spooky places.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yes, they are.

• 3:07Kaelyn Moore?

  And you're out in the middle of nowhere.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Yep. Especially sleepaway ones and you're not with your family and, you know?

• 3:12Kaelyn Moore?

  I felt, when I worked at a summer camp, I felt like I was in a fishbowl. I felt like there were things in the woods that could just see me and all the kids and they knew that it was just 500 kids on this campground. And I always felt like...

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Exposed.

• 3:23Kaelyn Moore?

  We were in danger. And exposed, that's the exact word for it.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Yep. I'm glad you're safe and you're here to tell the tale.

• 3:29Kaelyn Moore?

  Thank you. We made it. Well, I think we should dive right in because we have some really spooky ones to get into today. So, I'm gonna start and then we'll have you read one and we'll go from there. But this first story that I want to read to you is titled, "Man Tried To Lure Me To A Place That Didn't Exist." And it was posted and let's not meet seven months ago by Hold My Jumex. And they write... When I was about 25 years old, I was working at a tiny restaurant that served desserts. It was pretty hidden and a quiet location, so I was there alone in the mornings. On one occasion, a man walked in and I recognized him from the night before. He had been there with his wife and his adult children. That was the only other time that I had ever seen him, though.

• 4:12Kaelyn Moore?

  This time, he was alone and he began talking to me. Everything seemed like the typical small talk, but he kept commenting that I looked 19 years old and saying that he could help me, that he could get me into his job that paid seven more dollars than what I was making at the time. I was intrigued at first, so I asked for the name of the company, kind of getting excited, but he just kept talking and he didn't give it to me. He then began talking about how he has affairs and that his wife knows about them and is okay with it, mentioning that he had an affair once with someone who was 19, and that now she was happily married and that she thanked him for everything he taught her. At this point, I'm starting to get creeped out, but he would not stop talking. He wouldn't stop pestering me about this job, telling me that I could apply,

• 4:57Kaelyn Moore?

  but he wouldn't give me the name of the place. He would tell me the overall area of where it was at, which was by the outskirts of the city, but he always avoided the name. He kept telling me to follow him after work so that he could get me in and I would probably just be hired on the spot. I told him that my car was getting fixed, so my sister would be picking me up anyway, so I couldn't follow him. But since he wouldn't take no for an answer, I eventually decided to tell him I would, just so that he could leave. But as soon as I did, he changed the goal and now he was telling me to go into his car with him and that way, they would see me arrive with him and they would hire me right away. In between all of this, he randomly shows me a white paper that was supposedly his license to carry. Very random.

• 5:42Kaelyn Moore?

  He also finally gave me the name of the company. Eventually, I told him I would go with him and come back at the time I would be off, just so that he would leave. I went to the back and looked up the name of this supposed job and there was nothing. I used Google Maps to search the area he mentioned and no, no factory, not anything. Once my time to leave arrived, my sister picked me up from the side of the building and as we drove away, he had indeed come back and was parked near the location around the corner. I never saw him again and I was recently retelling this story to a friend of mine and I do deeply regret not reporting this to the police.

• 6:21Kaelyn Moore?

  That's the story.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Well, good on her for not getting into his car.

• 6:26Kaelyn Moore?

  First and foremost.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  First and foremost.

• 6:28Kaelyn Moore?

  Yes.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  And for doing what-

• 6:29Kaelyn Moore?

  What do they say? Like, never go to a second location with someone? Like, if you're somewhere, never go with them to another place.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Yep. Especially if he showed you his face, which he did, because he was sitting in this restaurant, right? So she obviously could identify him, if, you know what I mean? So typically, if you, they say, if you wind up in a perpetrator's car, and that perpetrator is not wearing a mask, it's not looking great for the outcome, because they don't anticipate you ever leaving to be able to then report them to the cops.

• 6:57Kaelyn Moore?

  Whoa, I didn't even think about that, but that makes so much sense that they're like, "Well, if you ever leave, you're gonna rat me out, so I'm just gonna kill you."

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Right. So the fact that he was there and, like, very exposed in what he was doing and trying to get her to go into his car, I feel like had she somehow, for some reason, you know, wound up in his car, I doubt she would have ever made it out, assuming he is a perpetrator and not just some creepy weirdo, which is possible.

• 7:24Kaelyn Moore?

  Yes. Well, creepy weirdo for sure. That's the bar. That's where he's starting at.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:28Kaelyn Moore?

  A creepy weirdo, potentially someone more threatening, but the, the part of the story, I was just reading more about Keith Raniere, the NXIVM guy, and there's a part of this story that reminded me of him because he says, "Oh, I have had affairs with women who are 19 years old, and they thank me for everything I taught them. I have so much wisdom that I can give to young women." And Keith Raniere used to always say stuff like that, too.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Because they're so arrogant and narcissistic, and, you know, I wonder, I don't think that these people like Keith are just saying it to try and get these young women to fall all over them. I think they truly believe the bull-

• 8:06Kaelyn Moore?

  100%.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  I think they truly believe the BS that they are spewing. I think they're that arrogant and that narcissistic that they actually believe that the women who they, quote-unquote, "had affairs with," I'm gonna say, "who you preyed upon."

• 8:19Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Are so thankful for all that you offered. I doubt that.

• 8:23Kaelyn Moore?

  Yes.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  I doubt that.

• 8:24Kaelyn Moore?

  There's something extra sick about it being someone so young and thinking like you have so much to teach them.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 8:30Kaelyn Moore?

  I mean, it, yeah, it's predatory behavior, exactly what you said.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Yep, you're finding somebody, you know, the younger women are perhaps more vulnerable, a little, you know, less exposed to the horrors that are out there and therefore easier to persuade and manipulate and are just that much more malleable. So if you're telling me the women you have affairs with are typically 19, that's very, very telling. Given your age.

• 8:55Kaelyn Moore?

  And saying, you look 19, you look just like these women that I've courted.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Oh, you look barely legal. That's just despicable.

• 9:06Kaelyn Moore?

  So freaky, so freaky. We did an episode, actually, that was all about people being lured to fake jobs.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 9:13Kaelyn Moore?

  Which also is a thing, because I mean, that's such a, it's such a, people are so vulnerable, I guess, when they're looking for jobs.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 9:20Kaelyn Moore?

  I know in my job searches, like during my unemployment, too, sometimes you're like, I'll take literally anything. And we did an episode that was specifically about people who have gotten murdered because of the promise of a job.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Well, in my work professionally at my family's law firm, and I can obviously just speak vaguely, I'm not going to mention names or anything like that or location, but we have two women who were responding to Facebook ads to be what they thought to be hostesses at a restaurant. So they replied to this ad and they show up and they were manipulated into basically like dancing for the quote unquote manager. I think I recently told this on a, on an episode. They were like, basically, this is what they were told. Once they arrived, remember, they are desperate for work. They see this ad, they think it's legitimate, it's on Facebook, right? Like, it's a Facebook ad, this is totally legitimate.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  I'm going with my girlfriend, like, we're, we're gonna be fine. They walk in, everything is great, right? They're essentially sort of love bombed in the beginning, like, you know, you, you ladies seem perfect for the position, we pay really well. Here's the thing. It's a restaurant. We do, you know, we do want you to serve as hostesses, but it's also a club, like a gentleman's club. And on occasion, if we're, you know, really backed up the hostesses, it would be really helpful if you could dance. On occasion, you never will have to do that. You will never have to do that, but it is part of the application process because we just want to make sure whoever we hire to work as hostesses are prepared for that very, very unlikely scenario. So they're on this interview. They need the job. And it's like they were saying to me,

• 11:02Speaker 01

  in the moment, it seemed so legitimate, like they, they were so convinced because these people are manipulators. They are experts at what they do. It ended up being a human trafficking situation. It was absolutely horrible. And thank God, they wound up making it out alive and okay, but that's how sort of simple I want to say the, the plot was.

• 11:25Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Like the ploy, rather, like, come, you know, we're going to put a Facebook ad out, and we're going to lure you for legitimate work.

• 11:34Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah. And sir, and like, because on Facebook too, you select who you want to see it. So you're just picking like, young women.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 11:41Kaelyn Moore?

  And it's getting served to a bunch of young women. And then they show up and like, I could, you know, when you're in that position too, you're like, I already came all the way out here. Like, they've been so nice to me. They already said, I'm really not going to have to do it, but this is.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:52Kaelyn Moore?

  And I, I could see too, just feeling like it's wrong, but being like, I, I guess I'll just do this and then it'll be over and maybe I'll get this job and we'll never have to think about this again. But.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  And you have this false sense of safety, like you're with your friends and you kind of look at each other and kind of both agree with each other, like, we'll just do this because he's telling us we're going to get the job. And that's what we're here for. That's what we need. Really devastating.

• 12:14Kaelyn Moore?

  And they probably set the whole thing up to look like, they could have done it at a real restaurant too. Like, they can set it up to make it look way more legit.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So.

• 12:22Kaelyn Moore?

  I'm so glad they made it out.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Oh, thank goodness. Seriously. Truly devastating. And then you think of all the people who didn't make it out. It's just horrific.

• 12:30Kaelyn Moore?

  I know. Oh, very scary. So, I mean, like, lesson of that one, if someone just shows up to your job and says they have another job for you, but you have to get in their car.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 12:39Kaelyn Moore?

  Big no.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. It's like the equivalent of, I have this puppy that really needs help. You think you can come, you know, to, it's really manipulative and very hard to say no.

• 12:50Kaelyn Moore?

  I mean, they just are very good at knowing exactly what human emotions to tap into to lure people. Like, what is, how much can I lean into someone's sense of responsibility or guilt or wanting to help and use that to get them to do what I want them to do?

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, well said, exactly.

• 13:10Kaelyn Moore?

  Do you want to read your next story?

• 13:11Speaker 01

  I really do, yes. Okay, so this next story is titled, "I Might Have Met A Serial Killer", posted one month ago on Creepy Encounters by TopDegree7267. I hope I said that name correctly. "I was a teen runaway, heading back home to Washington from Montana on February 25th, 1997. I had two male companions, who were also teen runaways with me, and we had stopped at Quartz Flats Campground Rest Stop in Montana for a break from our drive. It was snowing heavily as we left the rest stop. I could barely see the road to I-90 when I saw a man carrying a little boy hitchhiking. My first thought was he was some idiot parent

• 13:54Speaker 01

  endangering his child and that poor kid shouldn't be in a blizzard. It never occurred to me to wonder where his car was located. I decided to pick them up so the boy wouldn't freeze. The man never offered any information about where he came from or where he was going. The man also did not realize, when I picked him up, that I had two teen boys in the back of my van, and he became unnerved and began speaking in this maniacal fashion about buying a boat in Arizona, saying things like, 'You know where you get a good boat? Arizona. Do you know why? There's no ocean, so they sell them cheap.' I was relieved when he turned to the boys in the back of my Plymouth Voyager and began talking to them so that I could tune him out and concentrate on driving."

• 14:40Speaker 01

  The man had curly brown hair with the devil's lock in the front, and a scar on his upper lip and his chin. The boy appeared to be between two and four years old, wearing a blue coat, red or blue warm-up pants, and light-colored boots that resembled construction boots. The boy would not look at any of us, nor did he turn to the man for comfort, just looked down at the floor and didn't move from the man's lap. I felt bad for him, thinking he must be so scared of us. They were not with us very long, and the man asked to be let out at the gas station in Superior, Montana, and that was the end of that interaction. In 2017, I found True Crime Media, and it made me reflect on 17-year-old me

• 15:22Speaker 01

  and the terrible risks I took hitchhiking and picking up hitchhikers. I had a few disturbing rides, but the one that sticks out the most was the hitchhiker and the boy. On a whim, I Googled "serial killers," "I-90," and "missing children." I didn't really believe I would find any likely offenders, until I did. My heart dropped when I saw the devil's lock and scars on his lip and chin, and even more when I found a video he posted online, his maniacal voice, style, and tone matching the boat guy I had given a ride to: Joseph Duncan III. The worst part was that there was a little boy that went missing in the same region two days prior.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  I connected with his aunt, and she connected me with the FBI so I could provide a detail that they hadn't made public. If you've ever researched Duncan, you know that he was one of the worst human beings ever. He had a court date on that same day I would have picked him up, coincidentally, his birthday, and there is no record of him showing up for that court date. There was a warrant issued for his arrest in 1997 for missing a court date. By April, he absconded and ended up in California, where he took the life of another young victim. I wrote him a letter and he wrote back and stated that he was not the man I picked up, but that I was very brave for picking up a hitchhiker.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  The letter is the weirdest thing I've ever received in the mail. One more thing, while I was looking into the timeline of Duncan, I reached out to the two teenagers that were with me at the time. They both said that it could be him based on the photos and in the video, but they couldn't be 100% sure. They said the creepiest part was when the man turned around to talk to them. He had said, "You're not buying any of this bullshit, are you?" And then he asked to be let out at the next town. Oof, and that is the story.

• 17:25Kaelyn Moore?

  Oh, wow.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  That is killing.

• 17:30Kaelyn Moore?

  As the now mother of a young boy, that's like, that's hard to read.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's terrifying. I, I have some thoughts on it. I have not actually covered Joseph Duncan III on Psychopedia, but I looked into him a little bit because he is actually probably one of the worst human beings to have ever existed.

• 17:53Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah, and you never hear his name.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, he's for whatever reason, he's not one of the headlining, if you will, serial killers, I guess. You know, what he did was particularly horrific. He, he annihilated an entire family and he focused on children. He was, you know, a pedophile to say the least, but a child predator. And he assaulted and he killed children and it's beyond, beyond horrific. So I'm happy we don't see his name out there too much because I don't want to know about him, but.

• 18:22Kaelyn Moore?

  Did you read anything about his backstory? Like what, I'm curious what would have happened to.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Very slightly about his backstory and there was a mentioning of a domineering mother, which is like very, very textbook for men who go on to, to kill. But usually it's, it's men that go on to kill women in particular. But again, that wasn't really Duncan's, you know, victimology. I mean, he did kill at least one woman when he killed an entire family. But really, he was out for the children. And and one other potential, you know, obviously red flag that did come up in his history. Again, I did I did sort of a cursory glance into his background. But there is a mentioning that he was abused as a child, although his siblings deny his allegations

• 19:09Speaker 01

  of abuse, which doesn't mean it didn't happen because it's possible his siblings didn't know. Like, that's entirely possible.

• 19:15Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so those are two predictive behaviors that we will often see in somebody who goes on to offend in the way that Joseph Duncan III went on to offend. You'll see childhood abuse, a domineering mother. So I don't think, I think it's likely that those two, you know, facts were accurate. But if you break this down behaviorally, based on his victimology and how he kidnapped his victims and then went on to kill his victims, we would probably classify him as like a power control offender with strong paraphilic, specifically pedophilic and sadistic drives. His crimes were methodical and they escalated. So there wasn't really sort of this element of chaos.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Offenders like Duncan are typically goal oriented and very controlled. I mean, they're maniacs. I'm not giving them any credit. It's just like how they sort of organize themselves. They don't behave in ways that unnecessarily draw attention to themselves. So hitchhiking in a blizzard, I would say, is very uncharacteristic of an offender like Duncan. There are some things, yeah, there are some things that do align, like geography, like Montana along the I-90 corridor hits, you know, fits with with the movement patterns. 1997 tracks with like the period, you know, when Duncan was like active. Obviously, the physical description, the scars and like that devil's lock, that hair thingy.

• 20:46Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  And the fact that he had a child with him, you know, potentially a kidnapped child. But The man that this Reddit user described was erratic, maniacal, rambling about boats in Arizona, right?

• 21:01Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  That doesn't really match Duncan's profile because he was very controlled. And when he did speak, and I'll tell you how we know what he said in a minute, but when he did speak, it was always about the devil and how the devil was present and the devil was interested or like into children's suffering and crying. So he had a very sort of specific talk track. And we know this because there was a videotape that was presented in court that it, the imagery, I mean, it's, it's beyond terrifying and sadistic and horrific, but we heard him in that video and it was all about the devil.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  So anyway, all this is to say that winding up, you know, hitchhiking in a blizzard is very random and disorganized and going into a car with three people inside of it. It's extremely high risk behavior that you wouldn't typically see in an organized offender. Like it just contradicts what we would expect from an offender like him. Again, I haven't done like a deep, deep dive on him.

• 22:09Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is so interesting. I'm like so just enraptured in what you're saying.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Oh my God, I love this stuff. I could talk about it all day, all day. So you're gonna have to stop me.

• 22:17Kaelyn Moore?

  Because, yeah, I mean, I guess there is a chance because the poster is saying, I think it was him, and then also him writing the poster a letter is so scary.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  So that's something else that I'm glad you brought up because that also fascinated me. First of all, he denies being the one that she picked up, right? Like he's like, that wasn't me. You picked up somebody else. He had nothing to gain by denying that it was him, if it in fact was him. He pleaded guilty to all charges against him and he accepted a plea deal. He also agreed to cooperate with investigators and provide them with things like passwords to encrypted files that he had on his computer. Like he was very cooperative and he, he pleaded guilty. So there's just nothing for him to gain by lying.

• 23:04Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah, so he was the type of person that he was just like, this is what I did.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:08Kaelyn Moore?

  I'm okay just telling people that this is what I did and getting the sentence that I get.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Totally. He pleaded guilty and he took a plea agreement. He was life behind bars. It wasn't like a walk in the park, but he completely accepted responsibility for all of the crimes that he was charged with. So why wouldn't he accept responsibility for something like getting in the car? That's like so benign in comparison to what he accepted responsibility for. So like, that doesn't land for me, you know, that doesn't hit.

• 23:38Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah. Okay, so maybe it wasn't him, but also the I-90 corridor specifically in Montana is a very terrifying place. It's a lot of people have gone missing along that corridor, especially indigenous people who live in the area have gone missing there. So there is like the terrifying reality that it just could have been some other, I mean, yes, it could have been a dad with his son in the middle of a blizzard on the I-90 corridor, which also feels just kind of random, but it could have just been someone else. Like, that's just a scary place in general to be.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it could have been, it could have, like you said, it could have been nothing. It could have just been a very strange situation. What's weird, you know, which this reader pointed out is that he didn't say like, oh, thank you so much for picking me up. My car broke down, you know, half a mile away. Like, he didn't offer an explanation for why he was walking through a blizzard with a child. I think where I land is like, does it feel like it could have been him? Yeah, it does. The timeline, geography, make it plausible. But behaviorally, it doesn't line up for me.

• 24:43Kaelyn Moore?

  Wow, this is fascinating. No, thank you so much for looking into this so much. You should be an investigator.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness. Good idea, Kaelyn.

• 24:52Kaelyn Moore?

  All right, I have another one that I want to read for you.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  So excited.

• 24:56Kaelyn Moore?

  This one is called, Moved Out at 17, I Didn't Know I Was Being Watched. And it was posted three months ago in Creepy Encounters by TimeHair9440. And it goes, okay. Three years ago, I moved into a student apartment one hour away from my parents' home. I was seventeen at the time. I had negotiated for a long time with my parents so I could live on my own and study independently, since the school was far from home. At first, they were reluctant, but they eventually agreed. I had a small apartment, but I liked it. I was able to decorate it the way I wanted. I made friends quickly, and I met my best friend, Eva. Everything started when a boy moved into the apartment next to mine. At first, I didn't notice him. It was only when I came back from a weekend at my parents' house

• 25:40Kaelyn Moore?

  that I saw a nude doormat at the door next to mine. One evening, I was at the common room, a place with couches, a minibar, and a foosball table, basically a place where young people can hang out and pass time. I was there with my friends when a boy entered the room. At first glance, he looked shy and especially lost. Eva suggested inviting him to join us. She got up and came back with him. He sat with us, and we went around introducing ourselves. For the rest of the evening, he was quiet and reserved, and he didn't talk much, but I didn't pay a lot of attention to him. As we went back up to our apartments, Eva discreetly told me, "Did you notice that he kept looking at you? I think he likes you." I just smiled, because at the time, boys weren't really interested in me, and I was more focused on my studies. Wednesday was mail day.

• 26:24Kaelyn Moore?

  I went down to my mailbox to get my mail, nothing special. While flipping through pieces of mail, a small piece of paper fell out with my first name written on it. I opened it, and written in pen, it said, "You dress so well, you're more beautiful every day." I smiled, imagining myself in a romantic TV series, but again, I didn't think much about it. When I talked about it with Eva, we both laughed. One evening, I was working in a small restaurant near my school to earn a little bit of pocket money, and that evening, the boy came in. For the story, I'm gonna call him Dylan. He sat at the bar, and I went over to take his order. He was very smiley, and he talked a lot, even though I had other customers to take care of. It was only at the end of my shift, at closing time,

• 27:07Kaelyn Moore?

  that I realized he had stayed for two hours. I found that strange, but... Wasn't really concerning. We went back up to our apartments together. I was about to say goodbye before going into mine, but he hugged me. I was kind of surprised and he said, "I'm happy to have a friend here. You're one of the only ones." That was pretty surprising because we barely knew each other. The next day I went to school and I ran into him in the hallways. He came over to talk to me. We chatted in between classes, but the conversation was only about me. He asked questions like, "What city do your parents live in? What's your class schedule? Do you have a boyfriend?" But when I asked him questions about himself, he dodged them and he always brought the conversation back to me. In the days that followed, I kept running into him every morning on my way to school, in the evening when I got home,

• 27:49Kaelyn Moore?

  sometimes even in the school hallways, even though before we had hardly ever crossed paths. I found this really strange. I talked about it with Eva and a few friends, but they all told me that maybe he just had the same schedule as me. I had thought that the little note I received in my mail might have come from him, but I didn't mention it to him. One day, when I was cooking at home, the doorbell rang. I thought it was Eva coming to pick up some of her things, but when I looked through the peephole, I saw Dylan and he was smiling. I hesitated to open the door, but I did anyways. He was holding a box of chocolates and he handed it to me and said, "This is to thank you for being a golden friend." I thanked him and I closed the door. That evening in front of the TV, something clicked. I was eating the chocolates when I remembered that

• 28:33Kaelyn Moore?

  the day before I had gone grocery shopping with a friend and we had passed by the candy aisle. She bought chocolate and I had told her that the brand she got was my favorite, but since they were a bit expensive, I preferred to wait until next month when I had a bit more money. And that was strange because I hadn't seen Dylan in the store at any point, but I didn't remember telling him that I loved that brand of chocolate. It bothered me a bit, but I thought maybe he had asked Eva, so I talked to her about it and she told me that he had never gone to see her. We both found this really weird. As the days went by, I kept running into him more and more and every time he came to talk to me. Honestly, it was becoming annoying. I talked about it with some friends who simply told me to tell them the truth, that it bothered me and he needed to keep his distance. So one morning, in the school hallway, I went up to him stressed out and I told him the truth.

• 29:17Kaelyn Moore?

  Dylan, you're very kind. I know we're neighbors, but I feel like you're following me. And you think you're really close to me, even though we barely know each other. I hope you understand it's not against you, but I would like you to keep your distance. At that moment, his face fell. He looked angry and a bit sad. It was hard, but it was better that way. Just before the end of year holiday season, my cousin came to visit me and he stayed at my place for just two days. We spent a good amount of time together and I ran into Dylan less and less. When I did see him, he didn't even look up at me. I think he was maybe hurt, but I preferred that to him following me everywhere and talking to me nonstop. After his stay, I walked my cousin to the train station so he could go home. And when I came back, I ran into Dylan in the hallway on our floor.

• 30:00Kaelyn Moore?

  He said hello, I said hello back, and before I went into my apartment, he asked, is that boy your boyfriend? I told him, no, that was my cousin who had come to visit me before the holidays. And then he went back into his apartment without saying anything. One evening, when I got home, there was a bouquet of flowers placed on the table in my kitchen with a small note that said on it, "Happy Holidays." I immediately understood that it was from Dylan, but what bothered me was that the bouquet was inside my apartment. Dylan didn't have the keys to get into my place and above all, he had no right to do that. I took the bouquet and I went to ring his doorbell. I admit, I was angry. He opened the door and I said, listen, I'm not going to repeat myself again. I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in you and I don't want your gifts either. So please, don't waste your money and give this bouquet to someone else.

• 30:45Kaelyn Moore?

  And his face fell again and he just replied, "Okay." I asked him how he had managed to leave the bouquet in my apartment. And he simply told me that the building caretaker had opened my door so he could put the flowers inside. I didn't look into it any further and just went back home. One night, I was asleep in my bed when my doorbell rang. It scared me, so I woke up with a start. I looked at the time on my phone and it was three in the morning. I wondered who could be disturbing me at that hour. I got up and looked through the peephole, but the hallway was dark, couldn't see anything. I stepped back slowly and then there was a soft knock on the door. From the other side, I heard someone whisper, "Open up. I just want to explain myself." And I recognized it as Dylan's voice.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  I hate it.

• 31:31Kaelyn Moore?

  I was Terrified because that's not normal to do that at three in the morning. At first, I wanted to check that my door was locked, but if I made noise, he would know that I was awake. So I simply went back to my bathroom, the only room in the apartment that I could lock. I thought he would leave, but he kept knocking on the door harder and harder. I was terrified. I took my phone and sent a message to Eva. Of course, I didn't get a reply. No one's awake at three in the morning. Then I heard a metallic noise. That's when I realized he was trying to force the lock. My heart stopped, but I took my phone and called the police. I was so stressed that I could only give my address, my floor and my door number. The operator told me she would stay on the line until the police arrived.

• 32:14Kaelyn Moore?

  I could feel him pulling on my handle and I knew that time was running out. What would happen if he managed to open the door before the police arrived? The longer I waited, the harder the blows on the door became. At one point, I heard loud footsteps in the hallway and someone shouting. I finally calmed down when I heard knocking on the door and a man shouting. "Open up, miss. It's the police." I got up and looked through the peephole and yeah, it was the police. I opened the door and Dylan was on the ground handcuffed and he was furious. One officer dealt with him while the other one took my statement and I told him everything from beginning to end. They said that they would call me when they had more info. Then came the holiday season. I stayed at my parents' house for two weeks and honestly, it did me a lot of good. The police called me back and I was shocked when they told me

• 32:59Kaelyn Moore?

  that they had searched Dylan's phone and laptop and they had found a lot of information about me. Dylan had found all my social media accounts, even my parents' Facebook accounts. I also learned that he had previously assaulted his ex-girlfriend several times and that she had even ended up in the hospital because of him. After that, I finished my studies, but I moved into a shared apartment with Eva. And today, I live with my parents and I admit that I am afraid to live alone again. I don't know when I'll have the courage to do so. How would you have reacted in my place?

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Oh my God. I was on the edge of my seat, Kaitlyn, that whole time.

• 33:37Kaelyn Moore?

  I hate it so much.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. That was very intense and terrifying.

• 33:41Kaelyn Moore?

  It's really, really scary. When you keep telling someone, no, please don't do this. Hey, and she was so nice to him too at first.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Well, that's the thing. You're not gonna go to level 15. You know what I mean? I don't know where that level or where that number came from. You're not gonna go to a super high level immediately, right? Because you're so afraid of like overreacting and and blowing something out of proportion. Maybe you're misreading the situation. So at first you're polite about it. And that's what we're taught too, especially, I hate to say it, as women. Like, we're taught like to smile and be polite and you know what I mean? So your first, at least I'll speak for myself, like I'm wired initially. My first response is like, you know, this is fine. We're fine. Like, I'm gonna be polite and we're gonna, you know, we're gonna talk and everything's gonna be fine. So, yeah, so she she really gave gave a lot of patience initially and did it a lot nicer than

• 34:32Speaker 01

  she probably would do in the future because she's gonna learn from this, that's for sure.

• 34:36Kaelyn Moore?

  Whoa, so, so, so freaky. You know what this reminds me of? Have we, have I ever told you this story of when I was in the seventh grade? I was on, I had, I was whatever, on like the bus going to school. And this new kid, I'll call him Alex, had moved into my town. Small town, everyone knew everyone. And he just would get on the bus and started sitting right next to me, like in the seat next to me, which was so strange. Like, there was enough space on the bus where everyone had their own seat to themselves. And he wouldn't talk to me, but he would just sit next to me every single day. And soon he started bringing snacks and he would like sit on the bus right next to me and he'd pull out a snack and be like, do you want some of this? And I'd be like, no. And the whole time I'm like, can you just not sit right next to me?

• 35:19Kaelyn Moore?

  Like, there was a free seat in front of me. Please, just like, get out of here.

• 35:24Kaelyn Moore?

  And he was also, he was just kind of like a strange kid in general. My town was really small and he was known to like, he would like graffiti things and it wasn't really a place where you would graffiti. I don't know, the bridge, but so everyone just knew him as like the kid that just moved to our town and started graffitiing everything in the town. So I just really wanted to be left alone on my way to school. And so one day he brings a banana and he opens it and it smells horrible and he's eating it and it sounds horrible. And I told him, I was like,

• 35:49Speaker 01

  It's the scariest thing you've said all day.

• 35:51Kaelyn Moore?

  I know. That was, that was my breaking point. That was the moment where I was like, he can't sit next to me anymore. And I turned to him and I said, hey, the seat in front of me is free. Can you just sit there today? And I've never seen someone look so angry at me and disappointed. And he just like gets his stuff, huffs up, sits in front of me. And that was that. And every day he'd come back on the bus and he'd sit right in front of me, but he wouldn't sit next to me. So I was like, okay, we're good. One day he stops showing up to the bus. He stops being on our bus route. And I never heard from him after that. And everyone was like, where did Alex go? Like, what happened? And finally, like maybe two months later or something, just like a few weeks later. Someone was like, whatever happened to Alex? Like he used to be on our bus. I haven't seen him at school or anything.

• 36:37Kaelyn Moore?

  And someone goes, oh, someone called the police on him or for some reason, the police went to his house and he had been building pipe bombs.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 36:47Kaelyn Moore?

  And he got arrested and so he doesn't go to our high school anymore.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 36:51Kaelyn Moore?

  Or our middle school. And I was like, whoa.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Wow. I mean, you were spot on for picking up on something, obviously a miss.

• 37:00Kaelyn Moore?

  It was a really dark energy coming from him. Yeah, really dark energy. And again, I don't know if he was building pipe bombs to like for me specifically, but I could not shake that thought afterwards that like, this is my fault. It's because I upset him. If I just let him sit next to me and eat his bananas, we would have been fine or whatever, but.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  That's terrifying. And he was obviously, I mean, he was young too, but he was like imposing himself on you. And he, you know, he knew what he was doing. He knew he was making you uncomfortable. He was breaking you down, you know?

• 37:27Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Just, and you know what?

• 37:29Kaelyn Moore?

  The banana was a test. He's like, if I can eat this next to her, I can do anything. She'll never say no to me.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Big mistake. Wasn't the pipe bomb. It was the banana.

• 37:39Kaelyn Moore?

  Oh, yeah. No, but it's that thing of like, like testing boundaries. And it seems like it's what this kid was doing too of like, I'll just start showing up in the hallway with her.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:46Kaelyn Moore?

  I'll talk to her and then I'll be in the next place she goes and I'll talk to her and then

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:51Kaelyn Moore?

  it keeps like encroaching closer and closer and closer. And that can feel so

• 37:54Speaker 01

  Threatening.

• 37:55Kaelyn Moore?

  Threatening. Yeah.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  I think it's like, uh, they say the, the expression of the frog in the boiling pot of water. Like you kind of maybe don't realize it at first and that's what they're counting on. You know what I mean?

• 38:06Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  So like at first, you know, with in the story, like he just what like left her a note or wrote her name on a piece of paper or said something like, thanks for hanging, whatever it was in the beginning that he seemed so innocuous, you know? And then you, you step it up a little bit and then you step it up a little bit more and you see what you can keep getting away with. You know what I mean? And, and that's how you're testing those boundaries and, and seeing how far you can go. And it's really hard when you're on the receiving end of that to know when to put an end to it, or is it just gonna fizzle out? Am I overreacting? Am I misjudging? I think the moral of the story is like, listen to your gut always.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  And don't be afraid to put your foot down and say off the bat, very firmly, like, I don't want to know of you. I don't want to see you. I don't like this is, this isn't ever gonna be a thing and you actually just make me uncomfortable. I know we've only met twice, but to your point, Kaelyn, you have this dark energy and I don't like it. It's making me uncomfortable.

• 39:07Kaelyn Moore?

  Your vibe is off. There's something evil there. Yeah.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  Instead of being polite in the beginning, like, oh, thank you. Like, how did you know I like this chocolate? Whatever. You know what I mean?

• 39:15Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  We have to be okay, listening to our gut and responding accordingly. We can't worry about hurting feelings or stepping on toes. You know, I'm not saying you're gonna like, call the cops on him, you know, the second time he looks at you and makes you uncomfortable, but you have every right to say, don't look at me again. We, I don't, I don't ever, I don't want you in my face, ever.

• 39:38Kaelyn Moore?

  I know. I'm honestly so impressed by the way she spoke to him at the beginning, because I think a lot of people would have waited a lot longer to say something. And like what she said was so spot on, the like, I think you think we're a lot closer than we And that's making me uncomfortable, but I don't really know you and I'd rather just keep some distance between us. Like that was beautiful. That was so, and the fact that he could, I think she really did everything right. The only, like, the only time that maybe more alarm bells should have been going off, and that actually kind of freaked me out too, is when he said that, oh, our apartment manager, like the building manager, let me into your apartment. Like, I would go check in with that guy because like, you can't just be letting people into that apartment because they say that they're her friend.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. And then you also wonder the legitimacy of that. You think that's what happened? Or you think he broke through a window? You know what I mean?

• 40:27Kaelyn Moore?

  I think he probably did break in, but still, even that excuse of like, well, someone else let me in. It's like, well, I need to go talk to that person and like, get that story to see if that's actually what happened. Cause even if that is what happened, that's not okay.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Right. It's almost distracting. It's almost like shifting the blame to the landlord. Like, he, well, they let me in. It's like, well, you should not need to be in my apartment when I'm not here.

• 40:46Kaelyn Moore?

  No one should be allowed to come into my apartment when I'm not here. Like, no one should just be inviting themselves into my space.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Ever.

• 40:52Kaelyn Moore?

  That is so, yeah, that's, that's really scary.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  It's just such a violation. It really is. Thank God she's okay. I can only imagine the fear of being in your bathroom with the door. I'm just wondering, who's gonna get in first? The cops or this maniac? You know, like you're praying that the cops-

• 41:10Kaelyn Moore?

  And time is ticking.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that they're gonna show, and like she had to look through the, the hole in her door to like, make sure it was the police. Like, it could have very well been him right there. You know what I mean? That's so scary.

• 41:21Kaelyn Moore?

  One thing I recommend to anyone who's listening to this and is like, well, I don't want anyone to ever be able to get into my apartment, even if it's locked by forcing the lock. I have these straps, they're blue. I forget what they're called, but I take, I started taking them when I traveled and then I also, just when I, before I was married and I lived in an apartment, I would do it to my door. But they, you can- They're Velcro and they go around the lock so that even if someone has a key to your apartment, they won't be able to turn the key and unlock it because the force of the strap will be holding the lock in place.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Interesting. I've never heard of that.

• 41:56Kaelyn Moore?

  Highly recommend them. Just for the peace of mind. Like, no one's gonna try to force their way into your apartment 99.99% of the time, but even just like when I'm traveling, I can at least sleep at night because I know like the lock is double enforced.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:10Kaelyn Moore?

  I'll like on the video, I'll put up a picture of them so people can see what they are, but highly recommend. I love them.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, peace of mind for sure.

• 42:21Kaelyn Moore?

  All right. Do you want to read the next one that you have?

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:23Kaelyn Moore?

  Probably our last one that we'll do.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  This post is titled, "I Was Once Mugged and I'm Convinced That It Was A Setup", posted four months ago on Let's Not Meet by GlitterDorsays21. "I moved to East Los Angeles the summer after high school. My parents bought the house from my aunt and uncle who had just moved out. We already had family in that area, so it felt familiar. The neighborhood was nice and quiet. The plan was for me to live with my parents and save money while I figured out what I wanted next. I was getting ready to start community college and apply to a medical assistant program. Back then, everyone had an opinion about East LA. People loved to describe it as dangerous, even though most of them had never even been there. I grew up visiting my cousins in that same

• 43:09Speaker 01

  area and it was never as dramatic as people made it sound. These places are not scary to me. They are just neighborhoods where people live." "I met Michael at my cousin's house party that summer. He had tattoos and looked edgy. When he asked me out, I said yes. I was flattered and curious what he would be like. He told me he knew a place with the best guava nectar in town, okay, and that we could go to a drive-in movie afterward. I actually left. Okay, I did too. I like guava nectar, but I had never heard anyone hype it up like that. But like I said, I was curious and I agreed. He parked at the drive-in first. He said we would leave the car there, walk to the restaurant, and come back for the movie."

• 43:53Speaker 01

  We even asked the employees if that was okay. They said yes. But something about the plan felt strange. The restaurant was about a 20-minute walk away and the movie started at 9:00. It was close to 8:00. I asked him if it was smart to walk by ourselves so late. He smiled and said he thought I was not afraid of neighborhoods like this since I had spent so much time in East L.A. He said it like a challenge. I remembered mentioning that earlier and he used my own words to keep me from saying no. So I went along with it. Very few people were on the street and it was dark. As we got closer to the restaurant, he stopped a few times to show me videos on his phone. There were silly clips that he thought were funny. I was uneasy about the walk.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  It felt like Michael wanted it to last longer than it should have. Something was off. Looking back, I think Michael was stalling. Then, a car pulled up beside us. A masked man got out and walked towards us. For a second, I thought it might be a prank like for a YouTube video. Then, I heard his voice and he said, "I need your phone and wallet." I remember thinking he sounded young, maybe high school age. He also sounded nervous and out of breath. I can't prove this, but I could tell this was not something he had done before. I think he was hesitating. At one point, I even remember the driver yelled, "Hurry up, man." He yelled back, "I am hurrying up, bro. She's right here." I kept looking at Michael.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Michael looked back. I could not see their faces, but something in that moment told me that they knew each other. He took my wallet and phone, then ran back to the car, and they drove away. Michael stood still. He did not help, but to be fair, I don't know what he could have done. You never know what someone with a gun might do if you make the wrong move. I was in shock, trying to make sense of what just happened. I told Michael we should go to the police. He kept insisting we should still go get that guavener so I could calm down. I had just been robbed and he was offering me juice. I had no phone and no way to call anyone and somehow we were walking to get guava nectar. We got it and then walked back.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  When we finally got to the car, I told him again that I wanted to go to the police. This time, I said that if he refused, I would ask someone else in the parking lot to call. He finally said okay. At the station, we gave our statements and it got even stranger. I said the car was gray because I knew what I saw. Michael said it was white. I said there'd been a driver who yelled, "Hurry up, man." Michael said there was no driver. And instead that it was the same person who got back into the driver's seat of the car and drove himself off. He kept adding little changes. The officers were polite, but I could feel their patience thinning. When they realized we were giving them two different stories, one of them sighed.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  She said she could not really investigate if two people who were both there could not agree on what happened. I knew right then and there, they were not going to investigate this any further. Michael drove me home. When my parents found out what happened, they were furious. My mom told me never to talk to Michael again. She did not have to repeat herself. Thankfully, I did not lose much. My wallet was easy to replace and I needed a new phone anyway. The more I think about that night, the more I am convinced that Michael planned it. I can still remember how he stalled to give them more time to come and mug me. I can still remember how calm he stayed through all of it.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  I can still remember how he tried to give the police completely different information from what had really happened. No way that was all an accident. Since then, I've seen Michael a few times at different things. He always wants to make small talk and invites me to things. I keep my guard and don't agree to anything. And that's the story.

• 47:55Kaelyn Moore?

  He fully planned that.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, he a hundred percent planned that. First of all, why was he not robbed? That's my first question.

• 48:02Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Why just her?

• 48:05Speaker 01

  If this was an actual mugging, there is no way that somebody is just walking off with one cellphone and one wallet and leaving the other person with all of their items. It makes zero sense.

• 48:15Kaelyn Moore?

  Yes, no, a hundred percent. And he, he like for sure was luring her there, like the obsession with the guava nectar, which I guess I had her, I ended up like Googling it while you were talking, like it is just juice.

• 48:28Kaelyn Moore?

  I mean, it looks very delicious, but like he was so insistent on like, we have to go get this guava nectar.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Yes, that sounds like so, such a great idea. Let's leave our car 20 minutes away in a parking lot to go walk and get some juice. I mean, she knew something was wrong. She knew something was weird, I'll say, not wrong.

• 48:46Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  In the beginning. But I think like, social pressure as a compliance strategy, like when he subtly pushed her to go along by saying like, well, you said you weren't scared of this neighborhood. So what's, why wouldn't you want to walk at night to, to go get the juice? Like, you know what I mean? Like, instead of forcing her, obviously, he's like, you know, I thought, I just, come on. Like, I'm gonna put your words to the test and see if they stand. Like, you said this. And then she, it was a very smart tactic on his part because she's like, I did say that. I gotta be a woman of my word.

• 49:21Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah, I know. And then you're like, well, yeah, I guess I did say that. And you kind of start talking yourself out of it or like into something.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  And you don't want to contradict who you said you were. Like, you said you were somebody who was not afraid of this. You know what I mean? So it's like, very smart tactic.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  And she didn't do anything wrong by going for that walk. Like she, you know what I mean?

• 49:42Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  At the end of the day, though, she, when she started to feel like something was funny, like we, we, again, it goes back to what we were saying earlier, like, We have to be okay choosing ourselves over other people. Like the second she was like, he's stalling. Something's weird. But you're just so like compelled to do the socially right thing. Like we're on a walk.

• 50:04Kaelyn Moore?

  I know. And also it's nighttime and he's the only one with you. So like, what are you gonna do? Just run off into the night?

• 50:10Speaker 01

  You have to like pick your poison at that point. Like stay with somebody who's kind of making me feel a little bit weird or risk it and walk back by myself, you know?

• 50:17Kaelyn Moore?

  Do you think he would have done this to other people before? Like this, do you think this is like a whole scheme that they're running? Where he's like, I'm gonna start kind of dating a girl. I'll get her comfortable. And then he just like has a thing with his friend where like he just takes her out. And like the friend comes and robs him.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  It seemed well-oiled from Michael's perspective. Like he was a cool cucumber, but the way she describes the driver, he sounded like a nervous wreck or the, or the one who did the actual mugging, right? He, he was like, he's like, she's right here. Like I'm, I'm doing it. I'm nervous. You know what I mean? So I don't, doesn't sound like that, that guy had ever been involved in, in something like this before, based on that alone. But it definitely sounds like this was not Michael's first rodeo.

• 50:57Kaelyn Moore?

  Oh, and then I, I know I would, there's like probably also not, because they're probably giving their statements together, it sounded like. So there wasn't really an opportunity for her to even say like, I think this guy is the reason.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  Right, right. And I think this guy's in on it. Like our stories aren't matching because trust me, he's in on it. You know what I mean?

• 51:14Kaelyn Moore?

  Yes, yes. And so of course the cop is like, well, it sounds like you guys are just making this up. So we're busy here, like go figure out something to do.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  But the, the other thing of it is too, is you know, there, there are two different people who can experience fear and anxiety in different ways. So, you know, that's, I feel like to say like, oh, there's, throw your hands up. Like there's nothing we can do in this investigation. I mean, I don't know what the solution is. I'm not saying I do, but I just feel like, is there no acknowledgement that they were just put through this traumatic experience? And so maybe they're, you know, one, one of them is misremembering or you know what I mean?

• 51:52Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  I would love to think law enforcement like kind of maybe circled back with them to see if, you know, once the nerve settled, if, if maybe there was like a version that came out that that was consistent. Like, I hate to think that they just dropped it because two teenagers were tripping over themselves. They were scared, presumably.

• 52:09Kaelyn Moore?

  Listen, I don't know if you've ever had to call 911 in LA, deal with law enfor- like, there's been a handful of times where I've had to call 911 here. And the vibe for sure is like, we are very busy. If you couldn't even get them. I mean, there's been times where they'll put you on like a 10 minute delay. Like, you just can't get them right away.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 52:32Kaelyn Moore?

  The one time I called the non-emergency line, it was an hour and a half before I got someone. And they basically hung up on me.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 52:38Kaelyn Moore?

  And that was like during like a car, like a car got stolen. And the cop was like, it doesn't look like the car's in our system anyways. Click, gone.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, I, I, I guess there's very violent crime that obviously would take precedent. But this was a, this was a mugging at gunpoint. Like, this was not a small, you know.

• 52:56Kaelyn Moore?

  That's a good point. That's a good point.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  You know, and that's, that's just kind of like, for now, the gun didn't go off. Maybe the next time it would. You know, I, I just feel like to be so dismissive. I mean, again, I don't know what the solution is because I do understand from law enforcement's perspective. Like, we got bigger fish to fry. Like, get your story straight. You know, where do you want me to go with this? You're saying this two, you were both just there. And then it makes you question whether or not anything at all happened. Or are these kids just like, all up in our business for giggles, you know?

• 53:25Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah, right. Like, are they just lying about something? Like, are, yeah. Especially if it like, the stories are so widely, wildly different that, of course, they're like, this, this sounds fake. Like, you're doing this for some other unknown reason, and we're just not going to entertain the idea.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  Did I ever tell you, I may have told this story, I was on the phone with Dave once, and I heard him getting mugged?

• 53:43Kaelyn Moore?

  No.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  No. Okay, so my husband is Dave, for those who don't know. Firefighter Dave is what he's known as on Psychopedia. So Dave used to be a teacher in Harlem when we lived in New York City together. He worked at a school for children with autism. And he would walk from our apartment on the Upper East Side to Harlem. It wasn't like a long walk, whatever. Not the greatest part of town. So he was on his phone and we're talking. One second he's talking and literally mid-sentence, the next, he's not. And I hear panting and I hear going down. Like I, I, I knew what was happening. I knew what was happening. And in that moment, I was working in an office at a school.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  And I stood up from my chair and I was like, Jocelyn, to the girl next to me. Call 911. Tell them there's a mugging happening right now in Harlem. And I was like, it has to be. And I kind of give the estimated street, you know, where Dave probably was around that time, based on his walk.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  And I was terrified because I couldn't hear. But then I heard clear running. So in my head, I'm like, the guy has to have Dave's phone and he's running, which means hopefully Dave is okay. Absolutely panic-stricken. Thankfully, Dave walked into a Dunkin' Donuts and asked that they, he could use their phone. And the first thing he did was to call me at work to say he was okay. But he a hundred percent, he said he was jumped when I was on the phone, like jumped, thrown on the ground in Harlem. Instinct for Dave was, you know, he, I think he threw, threw punch. I don't know if he threw punches and landed them or he just like physically.

• 55:16Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  You know, went and thankfully the guy took off. Like there was no engagement. There was no actual fistfight or any, or worse. But of course I was like, why didn't you just, why would you even? I heard you. I heard you guys like right, like why? Just here, take my phone, you know? Because you don't know what's going to happen in that moment. You just don't know how you're going to react.

• 55:37Kaelyn Moore?

  No, and he's probably so caught off guard because he's just talking to you. And next thing he knows, like the phone's gone and you don't even know what's happening and.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Terrible. So scary, arguably scarier for me.

• 55:48Kaelyn Moore?

  I know, to be on the other end of the phone call and to like hear it all go down, but not be able to do anything.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I'll just never forget getting that call from Dunkin' Donuts. I will never forget. And it said Dunkin' Donuts on the caller ID and I'm like, this has to be Dave. It just has to be.

• 56:04Kaelyn Moore?

  Yeah.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  And it was, thank goodness.

• 56:07Kaelyn Moore?

  Oh, wow. Thank God.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:10Kaelyn Moore?

  Firefighter Dave. Oh, my God.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  Ooh, man.

• 56:13Kaelyn Moore?

  Very scary.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. The last time he took his cellphone out in Harlem, I can tell you that.

• 56:17Kaelyn Moore?

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  There was no talking and walking anymore on the streets, you know? You learn. You live and you learn.

• 56:23Kaelyn Moore?

  You learn. You live and you learn. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Those are all the stories that I have for you today.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  This was a great lineup. Thank you, Kaylin.

• 56:31Kaelyn Moore?

  I always love the stories that we share. Where can everyone find you?

• 56:34Speaker 01

  They can find me at Psychopedia. So wherever you listen to podcasts and you put in Psychopedia, you will see all of the cases there. We have lots going on on Patreon right now. I'm actually rolling out this criminal profiling test that I just put together at patreon.com/psychopedia pod. And on Instagram, I just kind of combined pretty much Psychopedia with Investigators Slater. So my handle on Instagram and TikTok is at Investigators Slater. And I have, as you know, Kaylin, lots of other stuff that goes down on my social accounts.

• 57:07Kaelyn Moore?

  Oh, my gosh, yes. So much.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  So definitely give a follow and I would love to see your wonderful listeners in my world. Thank you for introducing us all, Kaylin. You're the best. I can't wait to have you on Psychopedia.

• 57:19Kaelyn Moore?

  Yay. I know. So I'll be going on Psychopedia. So keep an eye out for that as well.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:24Kaelyn Moore?

  But yeah, thank you for stopping by.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Thank you. Anytime. This was wonderful. You're like my favorite person and I'm obsessed with your podcast. So I would love to do this. It's the best.

• 57:32Kaelyn Moore?

  I love when we get to hang out. This is just an excuse for me to hang out with you. So it's

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Same. Same. I love it so much. Thank you.

• 57:39Kaelyn Moore?

  All right. Bye, guys. Hearts, Arts, Pounding is written and produced by me, Kayla Moore. Hearts, Arts, Pounding is also produced by Matt Brown. Our associate producer is Juno Hobbs. Sound design and mix by Red Rum Creative. Special thanks to Travis Dunlap, Grayson Jernigan, and the team at WME. Have a heart pounding story or a case request? Check out heartsarts pounding.com.

• 58:00Kaelyn Moore?

  Do you want more Darkly Curious stories in your life? Sign up for our Patreon for free and get access to a rotating shelf of bonus content, our weekly Rogue Detecting Society newsletter, and the HSP Book Club. Paid members also get monthly bonus episodes and archive access, which I think is more than 40 episodes at this point. You also get a cool jinx sticker after your first three months. And you can check it all out with a free seven-day trial. Link in the bio or go to patreon.com backslash heartstartspounding. But whatever you do, stay curious.