#767 Bitcoin Year In Review w/ Dylan LeClair

Dylan LeClair is the Senior Market Analyst at UTXO Management, a digital asset fund investing in the analog to digital transformation of money and the emergent financial system. In this conversation, we look back on Bitcoin's 2021 on-chain analytics. What went right, what went wrong and what's to come in 2022? ======================= Matrixport is Asia’s fastest-growing digital asset platform founded by crypto veterans Jihan Wu and John Ge. With $10 billion in assets under management and custody. Matrixport offers one-stop crypto-financial solutions including fixed income, Defi in 1-click, structured products, Cactus Custody™, spot OTC and lending. You can earn a high double-digit yield with the Dual Currency Product or opt for the lucrative potential of our new product, Range Sniper. If you hold crypto and are actively looking to do more with your precious asset, then this app is one you don’t want to miss. Download the Matrixport App and enjoy a welcome offer of 30% APY on Fixed Income for new users. Visit invest.matrixport.com/en today. ======================= Gemini is a leading regulated cryptocurrency exchange, wallet, and custodian that makes it simple and secure to buy, sell, store, and earn bitcoin, ether, and over 40 other cryptocurrencies. Offering industry-leading security, insurance and uptime, Gemini is the go-to trusted platform for beginner and sophisticated investors alike. Open a free account in under 3 minutes at gemini.com/pomp and get $20 of bitcoin after you trade $100 or more within 30 days. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Dylan Leclerc is the Senior Market Analyst at UTXO Management. He also writes a newsletter with Bitcoin Magazine. In this conversation, we talk about Bitcoin, on-chain metrics, we talk about Bitcoin's price, the market structure, and what to expect in the coming weeks. I really enjoyed this conversation with Dylan, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up is Matrix Port. Have you lost your way in this low-yield environment while searching for a better store of value to beat inflation? Look no further. Invest with Matrix Port to get more from your crypto, with the potential for high annualized yields on certain products.

• 0:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Matrix Port is Asia's fastest-growing digital asset platform founded by crypto veterans Ji Han Wu and Jean G. With $10 billion in assets under management and custody, Matrix Port offers one-stop crypto financial solutions, including fixed income, DeFi in one-click, structured products, Cactus custody, spot OTC, and lending. You can earn a high double-digit yield with the dual currency product, or opt for the lucrative potential of their new product, Range Sniper. If you hold crypto and are actively looking to do more with your precious assets, then this app is one you don't want to miss. Download the Matrix Port app and enjoy a welcome offer of very high APY on fixed income for new users. Again, go either download the Matrix Port app, or go to matrixport.com today.

• 1:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Next up is Gemini. Gemini is a leading regulated cryptocurrency exchange, wallet, and custodian that makes it simple and secure to buy, sell, store, and earn Bitcoin, Ether, and over 40 other cryptocurrencies. They offer industry-leading security, insurance, and uptime. Gemini is the go-to trusted platform for beginner and sophisticated investors alike. Open a free account in under 3 minutes at gemini.com/pomp and get $20 of Bitcoin after you trade $100 or more within 30 days. Open a free account today, under 3 minutes, at gemini.com/pomp and get $20 of Bitcoin after you trade $100 or more within 30 days. All right, let's get into this episode. I hope you guys enjoyed this one.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for

• 2:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Informational purposes only. All right, we got a special treat for everybody. We've got Dylan Leclerc, who's going to be joining us. And today we're going to do a year in review through the metrics. Dylan, you there?

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:40Anthony Pompliano?

  What up? Let's start with the hash rate. I mean, obviously ages insane year. We look back over 2021 for the hash rate. How do you evaluate what happened?

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, we've talked about it a bunch, but just kind of, you know, going coming through all of these things that, you know, that happened in the Bitcoin network in 2021. It feels like, you know, a few years at least. Time, time has flown by, but also it's, it's felt like, you know, quite a long year with, with all that's went down. China banning Bitcoin, Bitcoin mining in particular in May, kind of near those all time highs. And we saw 50% of that network hash rate basically shut off overnight. I'm not really, and it was basically the biggest attack the Bitcoin network has ever faced, maybe besides the fork wars. But from a nation state level, it was truly unprecedented. And, you know, the Bitcoin network went on completely uninterrupted, essentially. Difficulty adjusted downwards, I think, four or five times in a row.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  And seemingly all that hash rate is back online and it's, you know, quite the recovery. Almost no one saw it happening this fast. So, you know, quite a unprecedented year. But, you know, the resilience of the Bitcoin network cannot be understated.

• 3:49Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I also see that you've got the total, total minor revenue here. And I actually didn't know this until I saw that you, you sent this chart over that we started with $30 million a day on January 1st of 2021. And even though all the volatility, the China ban, like the whole nine yards, $45 million a day, 122921. Talk to us about this, like, how important is this to see that that minor revenue continues to increase at, you know, what ends up being a pretty significant rate?

• 4:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. So this was, this was the seven day moving average. I probably should just throw the, the annual average in over the course of history. It probably would have given a better kind of context, but I think the most remarkable thing about this chart, it looks quite similar to the Bitcoin chart. But what you're not taking into account when you're looking at this in dollar terms is that, is that the halving happens every, every four years. It's happened three times already. So that, that block subsidy. That miners are getting first, it was 50 Bitcoin every block, uh, cut in half to 25, cut in half to 12 and a half. And just last May, uh, I guess May of 2020, they got cut in half to 6.25 Bitcoin every 10 minutes for the block subsidy. Uh, so minor revenue continues to be, to go up and to the right, uh, over the course of Bitcoin's history, uh, despite the actual, the BTC amount going down, uh, in Bitcoin terms.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  And so, uh, this is just kind of another chart that's showing, uh, how exponential this network is growing. Uh, and we did see, uh, despite all the volatility and hash rate dropping and difficulty, uh, ramping up, going down again and ramping back up. Uh, minor revenue has been increasing in dollar terms.

• 5:18Anthony Pompliano?

  It, it's crazy to see this too. And what do you think is more important? Is the hash rate more important there or is it, uh, the actual price of Bitcoin?

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it's, it's almost like chicken and the egg because the price of Bitcoin going up, um, a lot of miners can just plug back in. Um, a lot of these miners are just like almost automated and they take into account multiple variables such as, um, the efficiency of their ASICs. Um, you know, that's kind of the baseline, but really like power prices and the price of Bitcoin. Um, and a lot of these things say like, if you're integrated with the grid, um, they're going off baseload demand. So, um, if, if demand is expected to go up or if, you know, there's a surge in say California or Texas, then these miners will shut right off. But when the price of Bitcoin goes up, um, hash price is also going up, which is basically it's minor revenue divided by hash rate.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  And when hash rate's pumping, uh, the, the value of all ASICs is going up and every Bitcoin miner is happy because they're more profitable in dollar terms.

• 6:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it makes sense. All right. We got realized market cap and MVRV ratio. Explain what both of these are for folks.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. So we talk about this a lot. Um, the, we had the market cap, which is pretty, which is pretty simple. Circulating supply times the price realized cap is, uh, circulating supply. Uh, and it's, it's the price that every coin has last moved and we can take a ratio of that and kind of evaluate how overheated or cheap Bitcoin is on a relative basis. And so we kind of can visualize these bull and bear cycles over, over Bitcoin's history. And, you know, if you look at April, uh, 2021, you see that, that ratio was, you know, really, really high. Uh, and it, you know, obviously crashed, uh, into, into May, June, into that summer area. And now we've kind of with, with realized cap continuing to increase, we're, we're starting to get to those pretty cheap levels again. But this is just kind of a, a broad view of what's happening in the Bitcoin market. And I think it's a, you know, a good long.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Term kind of view of what's happening.

• 7:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Looks like it's bullish. All right. Lightning Network public channel capacity seems to have gone on an epic run, but a little bit of a drawback here. Is that something to be concerned of? And what do you think about the full year kind of performance of the public channel capacity?

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is in dollar terms. So it's, it's obviously it's taking into account two variables. It's taking into account the growth of the Lightning Network and Bitcoin terms or that public channel capacity. And it's also taking into account the Bitcoin price. So we've seen a small pullback in the actual public channel capacity in BTC terms. But really that that pullback there is more associated with the Bitcoin price falling about 25, 30% from the highs. But really what you see 2021 was, you know, a pretty remarkable year for the Lightning Network and the growth of it. We saw a nation state adopt Bitcoin as legal tender and and really sort of kind of be adopted as a transactional medium in a way that it never has before at a large scale. So 160 million, it seems pretty small, especially with all these

• 7:58Speaker 02

  numbers and in the crypto space. You know, you see a lot of, say, D5 protocols with a total value locked of billions and billions of dollars. But the Lightning Network is is something completely different and unique, I would, I would say, in the sense that it allows this, you know, traditional like store of value or monetary asset that most people just kind of sit on and huddle. It allowed that to be more of a transactional medium where you could actually buy coffee with Bitcoin. For the longest time, it was a meme that you couldn't buy coffee with Bitcoin and it was too cheap. It was too expensive and slow and you needed something else. Well, the Lightning Network actually fixed that. And so I think 2022, we're going to see that remarkable growth continue.

• 8:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Now, one of my favorite charts to look at is usually the point one or point oh one BTC Bitcoin addresses. So these are people who have a Bitcoin address with at least point one or point oh one Bitcoin. You've got here the supply held by entities with a balance of point one to one full Bitcoin. Talk to us about this one.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's pretty obvious. It's up and to the right. And so I think this is just one of the things that you can kind of feel when you, when you're talking to people in the Bitcoin space, when you're on Bitcoin Twitter, you know, see all those accounts with laser eyes continuing to grow. There's just You know, a relentless group of of hodlers and stackers out there all over the world. On Twitter or not, you know, you may, they may be public Bitcoiners or not, that are just continuing to stack sats. And increase their proportion of of the Bitcoin monetary network. And so regardless of price going up, down or sideways. There's a cohort of people, you know, with with size would say like Michael Saylor, but also just just humbly stacking away, getting to 10 million sats, getting to that that full Bitcoin, 100 million satoshis.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  And and they're just, you know, continuing to increase their holdings. And so this is kind of that that, you know, stacker hodler of last resort mentality. And this is, you know, what is what stops the price of Bitcoin from going down is is those stackers and hodlers of last resort.

• 9:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And then when you start to look at things like the dollar cost averaging that occurs, how much of that do you think is individuals intentionally doing it? Like, hey, I said every Friday, I go ahead and I buy $10 worth of Bitcoin versus I'm actually going in and I I earn some Bitcoin. So I got my paycheck this week in Bitcoin. Oh, I got more money here. Okay, let me go put some of it in Bitcoin. And like, it's not so much like automated in the sense of kind of what we see in the fintech world around like roundups or automated investing. This is more so like people are getting paid and then going and doing it. Do we have any sense for that?

• 10:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's that's hard to quantify, especially with something like the on-chain metrics, because a lot of this stuff, you know, say the dollar cost averaging strategies aren't occurring on chain, where say I'm purchasing Bitcoin every hour, which I am with the new strike app. And there's there's all sorts of of, you know, there's been a huge increase in the dollar cost averaging platforms and strategies and the cost of all these things recently. And then say, once every week or once every couple of weeks, I take all those purchases and I send it to cold storage. And so that's one transaction on chain. But I think increasingly, we've seen not only the dollar cost averaging, you know, cohort of individuals around the world increasing, but also people adopting Bitcoin as their their almost their native currency.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Right? So, for example, I know, being kind of in the in the Bitcoin industry per se, there's a lot of people that have fixed negotiation salaries in Bitcoin terms. So the price goes up, down or sideways, they're getting the same amount of Bitcoin week to week, bonuses denominated in Bitcoin. This is happening all over the world and there are some tax implications, obviously. But, you know, I think we're seeing both of those things, whether it's just automated stacking or. Getting paid a fixed amount in Bitcoin.

• 11:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Bitcoin, the percent supply last active one plus years ago. What is this showing us?

• 11:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is just the amount of Bitcoin, the circulating supply, the percentage of that that has moved in the last year. And so this is just, you know, year to date, and we can see kind of that that that drew down into the bull run. And we saw, we see that kind of going parabolic again. So what that means is just coins are now being, coins that have moved in the last year are increasing. So, you know, a lot of stacking occurred during that kind of mini bear market we saw and not as much spending is occurring despite the recent pullback. And so I just like it. It's kind of a simple visual of, you know, the one plus year hodling activity.

• 12:15Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Now we got the Bitcoin liveliness. I've never seen this before, and I know you took some time to do it because there's arrows all over this baby. So what is this one showing us?

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so liveliness is a, is a pretty jam packed metric, which describes hodling activity. So for instance, here's a thought experiment. If there was a blockchain, it could be Bitcoin or it could be another crypto asset. But if there's a blockchain that had never, that it was just the blocks were mined and then there was no spending activity whatsoever. Liveliness would be zero. And in theory, if there was a blockchain that basically every single coin was moved at once. Liveliness would temporarily hop to 1.0. So, so when liveliness is increasing, it means that there's, there's spending, there's distribution happening on a net basis. And when liveliness is decreasing, it means that accumulation or hodling is happening on a net basis.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  And so what you can see here is, is into 2020, we saw basically a pretty massive accumulation phase. And as the bull market kicked off, we saw a lot of those coins that were accumulated basically since the 2017 bubble. Through that entire three year bear market consolidation period, we saw a lot of those coins distribute, right? So, so new hodlers, new, you know, new capital comes into the space and old coins distribute. And then following that kind of blow off top we saw into the bear market, we saw basically that that accumulation phase has kicked off again. We're seeing that, that downtrend continue. And so just just a recap of the last two years. But liveliness does a really good job of showing that accumulation and distribution in a pure sense.

• 13:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I love that. I've never seen that before. That's awesome. We're going to keep updating that as we go into 2022. All right, we've got Bitcoin price weighted by long-term holder supply 30-day percent change. It's a mouthpiece, but it's a great chart. And then we have the long-term holder supply 30-day percent change without the Bitcoin price weighted. So tell us about what these two are showing us.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is just a sneak peek of our deep dive annual kind of year in review. And this chart's by my friend, analyst at Bitcoin Magazine, Sam Ruhl, does a great job kind of showing this data in a really cool way here. So the red is showing when long-term holders are distributing, when they're basically parting with their holdings. And the blue, and specifically the dark blue, is when there's a huge net accumulation period. And so we can kind of see since 2015, during run-ups, we see a lot of these coins distribute, and then kind of the floor is set by the accumulation periods that follow these downturns. And so this is just kind of a little bit of an update. We've seen light distribution over the last

• 14:47Speaker 02

  month or two here, but nothing to be really too concerned about. And I think that accumulation period that we saw in the last six months of 2021 will pick up into the new year.

• 14:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And then if we go ahead and we look at the last chart that you gave us here, you've got the Bitcoin price weighted by perps funding rate, and then just the perps funding rate. Why is this important?

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so perps derivatives, it's a lot. Well, perps stands for perpetual swap futures contracts. And it's something that's not really too well-understood, but it's pretty important for the price action of Bitcoin, especially in these huge, huge volatile moves, whether it's tops or bottoms. You see these perps funding rates are really skewed to the downside or upside when you see these bottoms or tops, and there's a reason for that. So basically, the derivatives market has, the Bitcoin derivatives market, as well as all crypto, kind of has a native cost of capital to it. And so if you want to be long, say, into March of 2020, before the 50% dump, there was a pretty hefty price you had to pay to do that. But following that dump in March of 2020, funding rate went negative, which

• 15:50Speaker 02

  means that the price of the futures contract was below that of the spot. The spot market, so say, you know, on Coinbase, where you just swap $1 for some Bitcoin, that's a spot market where derivatives, you're using leverage and your margin betting, speculating on the price of Bitcoin. When the funding rate's negative, you're actually getting paid to go long. You're getting paid to bet on the Bitcoin price to go up. And so this just kind of shows the positioning or the long or short bias in the market. And you can kind of see when it's very, very blue, there's the leverage in the system on the long side is unsustainable. And then it's very, very red, a short squeeze is impending. And so this is just kind of a cool way to visualize these sentiment shifts and the leverage on both sides of the market and Bitcoin derivatives.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  And they play quite a big, big role in the price action.

• 16:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And then when you think about just the market, if we zoom out of the data for a second, from like a sentiment standpoint, I think there's a lot of people, myself included, that thought, hey, Bitcoin's going to hit about $100,000 or so this year. Is it something where like the bull market is over and we're now headed more into a bear market? Or is it something where you're more of a believer that like this is an elongated bull market? And so the past kind of 18 months post-having timeframes is just going to get extended out in Q1 and maybe even into Q2 could be exciting.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, Paul, I mean, I would agree. And I'm on the record with, you know, saying that I also expected 100K and more of a parabolic blow off top into, into Q4. Obviously, that didn't occur and has a lot of people saying the bull market's over, the halving cycle's dead. And I think that's maybe a little bit premature in the sense that Bitcoin isn't going anywhere, obviously. And more so than ever, it's a macroeconomic asset and people, you know, capital allocators all over the world are thinking of it as such. And so for Bitcoin to go really, you know, parabolic 100K, 200K, these kind of moon targets that a lot of people think are coming or will come in the future, you're going to need an immense amount of capital.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  And so I think more so that the Bitcoin cycles are less, less about, you know, say the halving where that block subsidy is cut in half. While that still will play an effect and it will play an effect again in 2024, I think it's more so about the kind of instability in the legacy. Financial system and the, you know, say that the boom and busts of of credit contraction and credit expansion in the legacy system. And so, right in March of 2020, they injected trillions of dollars following that Bitcoin goes absolutely parabolic. Um, since then, that kind of rate of change of, say, central bank asset purchases, um, you know, balance sheet expansion all over the world, it slowed down a little bit, but I think the next major catalyst of the Bitcoin bull market, um, despite the secular adoption that's occurring every single day, that that floor of Bitcoin is just rising every single day, even if we can't see it,

• 18:33Speaker 02

  uh, with the stackers and hodlers last resort. I think that next catalyst will be, uh, when, when the legacy system kind of falters again and, uh, you know, the Fed blinks and and they ramp up that printing. And I think that's when Bitcoin really, really becomes, uh, what a lot of people think it's going to, going to become when it's a, you know, a five, 10 trillion dollar asset.

• 18:53Anthony Pompliano?

  When the Fed blinks, baby. All right, Joe, what questions you got?

• 18:55Speaker 03

  I agree. Uh, Dylan, so what role do institutions play in this, right? I think a lot of people are looking at it and saying, hey, retail is one thing, but if the institutions come to play, we could, we could see, uh, the demand for this really ratchet up and we could see the price kind of follow in suit. How do you think about institutions? What are you tracking? And is this something that like, is it just focused on regulation? Are they waiting? Are we going to see more in Q1? Just walk me through kind of how you think about institutions getting involved.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a great question. I think there's a few things that we have to look at going into 2022. Um, first, and it was, you know, on, on the top of everyone's mind in October, when that futures ETF was passed, was the passing of a spot Bitcoin ETF, right? So, um, even still, uh, going into 2022, it's still kind of quite the hurdle or challenge for, for, say, a corporation, uh, or a publicly traded entity to put Bitcoin on their balance sheet in a way that's, that's not, uh, that doesn't really hinder, uh, what they're trying to do. So, for example, um, if you buy Bitcoin as a corporation, uh, if, if the price of Bitcoin goes down, you take an earnings hit and right. So while it's nothing more than an accounting thing and you don't actually lose money, uh, you have to mark to market that loss and shareholders, uh, if they're not aligned with the Bitcoin mission or don't really understand it from a fundamental level, aren't going to be happy with that.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  So that's limited a lot of, say, uh, corporate entities from doing what Michael, Michael Saylor or maybe Elon Musk and Tesla have done with just a little bit of a Bitcoin allocation. So, uh, the accounting standard is changing. And a spot ETF proving, I think, passing are two things that I would, I would think are going to be changed in 2022. And I think that's one of the things that we're going to have to wait to see for institutions to really start to allocate much more seriously. But I think those things will come. It's just, you know, it's, it's, it's more about just the kind of standard of, of, you know, acceptance of Bitcoin as a monetary asset. And that's, and that's coming in 2022. We're seeing that in the political circles as well. Do you have any ideas or guess on when a spot ETF might be approved?

• 20:45Speaker 02

  Um, you know, the ETF guys at Bloomberg have been all over it. And I think they're saying kind of middle of 2022 is their best guess. I don't really know what Gensler is doing. And it's not, it's certainly not protecting any investors. That's for sure. But we'll, we'll have to wait and see, I guess. John?

• 21:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, Dylan, nice to see you again. Congrats on the 100K followers I mentioned earlier.

• 21:07Speaker 04

  So my question is about on the macro level, what metrics are you looking at going into the new year? Is it hash rate? Is it what the whales are doing? What metrics do you just look at on the macro level?

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. So from, from the Bitcoin standpoint, I mean, hash rate is definitely a, a key in terms of just assessing overall network health. I really like to look at that, that realized value as kind of a baseline for, for Bitcoin and almost says that kind of floor. So worst case scenario, right? I'm, I'm certainly not expecting Bitcoin to go to $25,000, which is that realized price value. But I think, you know, worst case scenario, thinking about it in a probabilistic lens, I'm not going to bet my entire Bitcoin stack and leverage up. And, you know, with the, with the premise that Bitcoin could never go below 25,000, I think that's just kind of a ridiculous thing to do. So there's, there's always a probability or chance of that occurring. But I think looking at something like realized

• 21:58Speaker 02

  price, that market value to realized value ratio, say, the, the funding rates and the overall kind of leverage in the system in the Bitcoin derivatives market. You know, if everyone gets very, very over leveraged on the long side again, despite being, you know, completely macro bullish over the long term, it's, it's something to, you know, hold and pause and, and say, hey, maybe, maybe now is not the best time to bet the farm. And so there's just a few things like that in terms of, of what I'm looking For in terms of going into 2022 and then, you know, obviously from the macroeconomic lens, it's it's what is the Fed doing as S and P continuing to make new all time highs? What I would actually love to see is is equities take a 10 to 15, 20% dip,

• 22:40Speaker 02

  which is completely standard in the Bitcoin crypto world and in the legacy world, you know, the world, the house would be on fire if that happened, but the response to that would be more than advantageous for all for all asset prices. Do you expect volatility to happen in the new year? Yeah, I mean, I think Bitcoin, the volatility is certainly not going away and I'm definitely going to be looking forward to seeing what the first, I think, two to to one month, maybe two weeks to one month, maybe six weeks of Bitcoin's price action is, I think there's certainly some merit to to all these funds kind of refreshing their P and L into the new year and, and, you know, after a record year of S and P performance and all time highs, after a record year of Bitcoin, maybe not a record year, but, you know,

• 23:21Speaker 02

  70% year to date performance for Bitcoin, a lot of these fund managers are looking to get their bonuses, you know, ride it easy into the new year and start fresh in Q1. So I would definitely not be surprised with some bullish price action into the new year, but we'll have to wait and see there.

• 23:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Dylan, when you start to look at 2022, are you going to do anything different? Based on what like any of this, right? So like, obviously my read on everything that you've been doing, we've been talking about for a while now is just, hey, I watch all the data, but I just dollar cost average into Bitcoin. Anything going to change about that strategy and, you know, get into any other types of activities or just continue to dollar cost average into Bitcoin?

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, I mean, the baseline is I I dollar cost average into Bitcoin and just continue to accumulate my my stack. I I use Bitcoin. I've, you know, been pretty transparent about using Bitcoin as my unit of account. So I'm, you know, completely fine with the price in dollar terms withdrawn, you know, going down by 50%. And when it's advantageous, I'll take a small percentage of that portfolio on a personal basis as well as what I'm doing with with UTXO. And we use that Bitcoin collateral to to maybe do some things with with some leverage, betting on the price to go up or other things, right? You guys were talking about. Let's say Elon Musk and Tesla right before I hopped on. So if we're thinking about investing with Bitcoin as a unit of account,

• 24:41Speaker 02

  I think Tesla is a fantastic company and I was pretty blown away when I went in one of their cars. But I'm not going to buy Tesla when the market cap is 23 million Bitcoin, right? So like some of these things, I just, I think it's important to have a long-term view on things. And right now, I'm more than just happy to continue saving money. I don't even really consider it investing almost, saving money in Bitcoin terms. And, and when, you know, I think, you know, when I find more things attractive to allocate capital on a Bitcoin standard, I'll do that. But for the most part, I think people should just zoom out, stay patient and continuing to save the best money the world's ever seen. I think that's just what everyone should do.

• 25:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. When you start to think about content in the space, we haven't talked about this in a while. How do you think that that's evolving? It seems like there's way more sophisticated, intelligent people coming in and being able to analyze not only the data that's already exists, but also the creation of new metrics and, and really start to kind of like build out what I would consider the robustness of the understanding of the market, the price, various players, et cetera. Is that your feeling as well?

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, a hundred percent. I think Bitcoin, the reason that, you know, people are so fascinated with Bitcoin on-chain metrics and all this stuff, including myself, who I'm digging through all this data, you know, every single day, it's that it's completely transparent. It's like, you know, the source of truth is in every Bitcoin full node and you can verify that, that history, you know, since, since the genesis block in 2009. So if you want to spin that up your own full node and run the data through Python, you can do that. Or Glassnode could do it for you, or Coinmetrics, or any of these other, you know, data aggregation platforms. And so I think in terms of like the transparency of, of blockchain technology and this immutable ledger, it's, it's pretty fascinating. And I think the industry as a whole is just kind of getting started with, with what we're doing here and all the data and analysis that everyone's looking at.

• 26:27Anthony Pompliano?

  I agree. I think that's spot on analysis. John, just so we're clear, he doesn't have 100K followers, he has 102.1K followers. Get it right. That's a 2% growth. Goes up by the minute. Yeah, well, if he gets through this week, he may have as much growth as inflation. I mean, he's moving here.

• 26:44Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, buddy. How, how was Christmas? Everything good?

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was fantastic. I was in, I was in St. Petersburg. It's beautiful. Florida's awesome. I gotta stop in Miami sometime. I missed that. I haven't been there in a while.

• 26:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Let's go. It's always summer in Miami. She just moved to Florida. Yeah, why don't you just move to Miami? What's stopping you?

• 26:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, no, no income tax, warm sunny states. I think that's in my future.

• 27:04Speaker 03

  Hey, he gets it.

• 27:06Anthony Pompliano?

  I like that. Hey, listen, you said it, not me. All right. I appreciate you joining. We'll see you next Tuesday. New year, same Dylan, same us, same information. No, uh, no issues. Uh, maybe Dylan will have a shirt on next time, maybe not. I mean, listen, we've actually, hold on, this is important. I think Dylan and us have had conversations indoors, outdoors, shirt on, shirt off, hat on, hat off. Like, we've, we've done it all. You could, you could get a, uh, you should go for like a modeling contract. Be like, hey, listen, if you pay me, then I'll go on the best business show.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  Someone in the comments, when he showed up, literally said, typed out, Dylan always looking fly.

• 27:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Which is true. That was Dylan who wrote that.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  Oh, was it?

• 27:50Anthony Pompliano?

  No, I'm joking.

• 27:53Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, buddy. Thanks so much.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Plug yourself.

• 27:55Speaker 04

  Appreciate you guys.

• 27:56Anthony Pompliano?

  See you later.