Advice Line with Jeni Britton of Jeni's Splendid Ice Creams

Jeni’s Splendid Ice Creams founder Jeni Britton joins Guy on the Advice Line to answer questions from three early-stage entrepreneurs. Plus, how Jeni’s newest venture Floura is tackling one of America’s largest dietary needs—fiber. First, we meet Jesse in Washington, D. C., who’s wondering how to best focus marketing efforts for his frozen french fry company. Then Casey from Boston, who's questioning the pressure she's feeling to pursue outside capital for her frozen pierogi brand. And finally, Callie from Los Angeles asks about the pros and cons of contracting a PR firm to promote her purple sweet potato pet treats. Thank you to the founders of Jesse & Ben’s, Jaju Pierogi and Ubae.co for being a part of our show. If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [email protected] mailto:[email protected] or call 1-800-433-1298. And be sure to listen to Jeni’s Splendid Ice Creams’ founding story https://art19.com/shows/831bd173-0992-41b7-b1eb-112db904d947/episodes/d65b7e32-c8a8-4902-86b4-82a7180b055a/embed as told by Jeni on the show in 2018. This episode was produced by Katherine Sypher with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Neal Rauch. You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com http://guyraz.com and on Substack https://guyraz.substack.com/. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Guy Raz?

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• 5:21Guy Raz?

  Hello and welcome to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show, who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. You can also send us a voice memo at [email protected]. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter.

• 6:05Guy Raz?

  It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at guyraz.com. And we'll put all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Jenny Britton. She's the founder of Jenny's Splendid Ice Creams. Jenny, it's great to have you back on the show.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Hey, Guy, it's so, so great to be back.

• 6:27Guy Raz?

  You were a guest on the show back in 2018. We did a live show in Columbus, Ohio. It was so fun. And by the way, guys, if you haven't heard that original episode, we will put a link in the episode description. You, of course, started Jenny's. Your first location was in a food hall. And then you opened your first scoop shop a few years later. And I think most people know your ice cream. I mean, creamy, amazing, weirdly wonderful flavors like powdered jelly doughnut and bramble berry crisp and Texas sheet cake. And my current favorite, I have to say, brown butter brittle.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  That's my favorite.

• 7:03Guy Raz?

  Yeah, we have a pint and a half. My son eats a pint of your ice cream, like, almost daily. It's very, it's just really amazing when they're growing how much ice cream they eat.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I know that very well, too. My kids eat a lot of ice cream as well. We are an ice cream family, of course. But yes, that one's my favorite, too, and the one that I always, always, always have in my freezer.

• 7:24Guy Raz?

  It's so good. Today, your ice creams are sold, I think, in about 80, at least 80 scoop shops across the country.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 7:31Guy Raz?

  12,000 retail locations. You've built an incredible business. Jenny, before we get to today's callers, I want to ask you a couple of questions about your story. I mean, when you were in college, right? You had this moment when you knew you wanted to make ice cream. Basically, for the rest of your life, you dropped out of the Ohio State University to start what would become Jenny's, first called Scream, Ice Cream.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, in 1996, I walked out of art class, literally.

• 8:00Guy Raz?

  I mean, yeah, you walked out. And so, a lot of callers have asked this in the past, which is, how do you know that it was the right thing to do at that time?

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I didn't question it. It wasn't something that I sat and thought, is this really right? Is it not right? I just knew that I couldn't do art anymore. And I had spent my entire life in art. My grandmother's an art teacher. My mother's an artist. And it just wasn't for me anymore. I just wanted to be making ice cream, and I wanted to be serving ice cream, and I wanted to light people up in that way. And I didn't know at all what I was doing. And I just thought it was just going to be, you know, you make ice cream, you serve it, people love it, and then, you know, you become Ben and Jerry's overnight.

• 8:37Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  And obviously, that's not true. You know, that was just the beginning.

• 8:41Guy Raz?

  Yeah. I think a lot of people assume that brands start in coastal cities, LA, New York, San Francisco. But you started this in Columbus and built a national brand, really, on the sheer force of the quality of the product and the branding and the look of it. Tell me, why do you think Columbus turned out to be the perfect place for you to launch the business?

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Columbus is a perfect place. And these smaller markets are really perfect for a lot of reasons, actually. I was in Columbus, and one of the reasons that I wanted to be an ice cream maker is because I drove by farms every day. You go 20 minutes outside of downtown, and you're driving by dairy farms. So I knew that we were a dairy state because I saw it in front of me. So I thought, okay, great, it's awesome for ice cream. And we forget that a lot of innovation can come from the middle of the country, whether it's in food, especially in food, where we have ag states. But also, when you're in a smaller, small to mid-sized city, the city gets behind it in a different way. You can really try things and also fail a lot, and people still stick with you. And I have noticed

• 9:48Speaker 01

  that in big cities, everybody's trying new things. Everybody's got something going on, and it's really hard to stand out.

• 9:55Guy Raz?

  And, of course, the cost of doing business is lower. Just the startup costs are lower in a place like Columbus versus Brooklyn, New York.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  It would be impossible to do what we do at Jenny's. All of our money would have been in... You know, rent and paying people and all the things that you have to do in Brooklyn that would be different from Columbus.

• 10:11Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  And here we can put it all in the ice cream. And that's just a huge difference.

• 10:16Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Jenny, before we get to our callers, you have a new product that you've launched. A completely, I think it's a completely separate company.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  It is.

• 10:23Guy Raz?

  Called Flora. And these are energy bars or bars, but they're like high in fiber, like 13, 14 grams of fiber per bar. Tell me about this new like business that you've launched.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, Flora is a fiber company. We actually make fiber or pull fiber from produce trimmings. So we are located actually inside of a 600,000 square foot produce processing company that makes cut produce for all your favorite grocers.

• 10:51Guy Raz?

  Like baby carrots or, you know, stuff like that?

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Mots apples, for instance.

• 10:56Guy Raz?

  Okay.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  And so we can take the apple cores and then make them into a paste, which becomes the base of our bars. And so we also work with watermelon rinds. We actually ferment the watermelon rinds a little bit, which opens up cellulose and pectin and prebiotic fiber there. We work with honeydew, cantaloupe rinds, mango skins. These are really high in fiber and then 95% of Americans are deficient in fiber and it's the cause of many chronic illnesses across America. So, I don't know, you know, people are like, how do you go from ice cream to fiber? And to me, it's just the same thing. It's about making people feel better. I learned after I was able to kind of step back a little bit from Jenny's over the last five years, how important fiber is and how

• 11:32Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  absent it is from our food system. And we really need this to have a healthy microbiome. So, yeah, so Flora exists to get people fiber every day.

• 11:41Guy Raz?

  That's so cool. Congrats on that. It's really true. I mean, I eat so many vegetables and I still add psyllium husk to my morning smoothie. I eat chia seed pudding every day. We don't eat enough fiber.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  And you have to work to do it. You have to actually try.

• 11:58Guy Raz?

  It's really hard.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. And also, you know, of course, there's this sustainability aspect because all of these ingredients were going Into the landfill, but they are really good for you and you should be eating them.

• 12:08Guy Raz?

  Yep, for sure. Well, all right. Congrats on that. I can't wait to try them.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Thank you. Back at the beginning.

• 12:12Guy Raz?

  Back at the beginning. I love it. Let's bring in our first caller. Hello, welcome to the advice line. You're on with me and Jenny Britton. Welcome. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Hey, Guy. Hey, Jenny. My name is Jesse Koenig. I'm calling in from Washington DC. I'm one of the co-founders of Jesse and Ben's, and what makes our fries special is that we don't use seed oils or any weird ingredients. It's just non-GMO potatoes, healthy fats like grass-fed beef tallow or avocado oil and salts and seasonings. That's it. Just real ingredients you can pronounce and none of the bad stuff.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 12:49Guy Raz?

  I love it. Welcome to the show, Jesse. Thanks for calling in. So these are, you, these are sold frozen in a bag like that you would get at the grocery store in the freezer aisle?

• 12:57Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yep. They are frozen french fries you'd find right in the freezer aisle next to some of the big red bags you probably recognize from, from a long time to been there.

• 13:05Guy Raz?

  And then you take them home and you just put them on a baking sheet and you bake them?

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Right in the air fryer. Air fryer is great. People love their air fryers. I like to bake them in the oven, too. They're great in the oven as well. It's kind of like a twice-fried Belgian-style fry you'd get at a restaurant, and we do the first fry, and you're basically doing that finished cooking at home, either in the air fryer or in the oven.

• 13:25Guy Raz?

  I got it. Cool. Well, tell me a little bit about how you started the business.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Our background is actually in restaurants and-

• 13:31Guy Raz?

  You say "our," you've got a, you've got a partner. That would be Ben.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  That would be Ben, exactly.

• 13:35Guy Raz?

  I guess the Ben and Jesse and Ben's.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Yes, we're the guys behind the fries. I'm one half of the equation being Jesse.

• 13:41Guy Raz?

  All right.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Ben and I, we met in college. We were friends. We decided this brilliant idea that we were going to get into the food industry with no experience, jumped right into it in DC in 2014 with food trucks and farmers markets and kind of running around the city.

• 13:55Guy Raz?

  What were you selling? What kind of food?

• 13:56Speaker 02

  It actually started out with gourmet, grass-fed beef spiral-cut hot dogs, of all things. It was a very niche, funky thing. Hand-cut fries were a huge part of the menu from day one. And we eventually pivoted the concept a little bit more into the burger space and building a better fast food concept. We've had our best year ever in 2019. We signed our first lease, getting ready to open up in 2020. And it was not the best time, as you might imagine, to be opening your first restaurant.

• 14:21Guy Raz?

  Yeah, COVID, yes.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Yes, so we were building our restaurant in March, getting ready to open in May. And that actually led us to this kind of idea for french fries, because we were trying to solve a problem at our restaurant. We were hand-cutting fries for our food trucks and farmers markets, and now this new restaurant. And we thought, we need to survive. We don't know what we're gonna do. What if we could use a frozen french fry? But since it'd always been, you know, a core part of our business from the earliest days, we couldn't sacrifice the quality of our fries.

• 14:48Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  And we decided to make our own frozen french fries, because it's the only one we could find that really worked. And then we had these frozen fries, and we walked the grocery store aisles, and we just saw that sea of sameness we'd learned about from being longtime listeners of How I Built This.

• 15:01Guy Raz?

  Awesome.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  And realized there was a huge opportunity to just do something better, and realized there was a real problem that needed solving.

• 15:08Guy Raz?

  Amazing. All right, just to clarify, though, these are sold in stores, not direct to consumer, because it's kind of hard, I'm assuming, to ship these, right?

• 15:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, we've had people all over the country trying to get us to ship french fries, which we've decided not to do for the time being.

• 15:22Guy Raz?

  Dry ice, it's hard. So where are they sold? How many shops or grocery stores are you in right now?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  So we just launched into retail in June of last year, so June 2024. And, you know, by kind of end of the year, early 2025, we're in about 400 grocery stores. And we're actually launching nationally with Sprouts Farmers Market soon. So we've got a lot going on this year, and we're just trying to figure out, one step at a time, of what to do next.

• 15:46Guy Raz?

  All right, what's your question for us today?

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Yes, my question's related to just how we should focus our marketing efforts. I know we're a, you know, small business. We don't have the budgets of the big guys. And we're getting ready for this nationwide launch in Sprouts, and we're trying to think about, you know, as we get into these new places, how should we be allocating our resources and our time and our budget? On one hand, it seems like there's a good case to be made to go and find the people that are already removing ultra-processed foods and seed oils from their diet because they kind of get it. They can be those early brand evangelists. On the other hand, it kind of seems like it could make sense to go find people who are buying lots of fries and don't even know about this problem. And if we can educate them and get them to know, hey, these fries not only taste better, but they might be better for you and your family, too.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  So we're just trying to figure out how we should really focus our effort when it comes to marketing as we're rolling into new places.

• 16:36Guy Raz?

  All right, we'll get to your question in a moment. I want to bring Jenny in. Jenny, you may have some answers to this question, but you may have questions of your own before we get to it.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  Hi, Jesse.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Congratulations on your business.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  How cool. It's amazing. I feel like there's like a problem with like french fries right now. You guys identified it inside your company where it's like you can't actually buy like decent french fries, but making them is actually really hard, too. And if you're feeling it, I think the consumer is feeling it as well. I would love to know, where are you manufacturing? How are you manufacturing these?

• 17:08Speaker 02

  So we make all of our own french fries ourselves. We actually just opened a brand new 6,000 square foot facility in Rockville, Maryland. Because we are doing grass-fed beef tallow and avocado oil, and we think we have a very true-to-form process for these hand-cut Belgian-style fries. We don't really think there is an option elsewhere to do co-manufacturing. We kind of like controlling that part of the process, so we do it all. That's actually kind of what Ben's specialty is.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  And what are your, I mean, your established businesses, are people just sort of super excited about the fries? You know, I mean, is that something that, I mean, it sounds like it, but in addition to your burgers and the dogs and everything?

• 17:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, at the restaurant level, I think for us, we were able to execute on making a fry that tastes as good as any french fry you ever had. But the sort of magic behind the scenes for us as operators is that we just open up a bag of our Jesse and Ben's fries, drop them into the fryer, and we've got a great french fry right there. And we actually do sell fries to other restaurants. It's kind of a sneaky wholesale business that we have that helps us grow our business and run our manufacturing plant profitably. Hopefully, that's the idea at least. Easier said than done.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 18:17Guy Raz?

  It's really interesting. Jesse, can you give me a sense of what your, what your sales are right now with the fries? Are you guys, have you broken through $200,000 in sales?

• 18:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, so in our first 12 months in business, we've done into seven figures in sales.

• 18:29Guy Raz?

  Great.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  So it's been growing pretty quick.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 18:32Guy Raz?

  Let me try to take a crack at your question because I think there's a parallel with what Jenny's done, and you mentioned this, is the idea of like a higher quality version of something that you were used to, right? There's a lot of awareness on social media about seed oils and people are getting sort of weirded out about using them. And there's still some disputes about whether that's accurate enough. But I think that most of the people that you want to appeal to aren't really going to care about that as much yet. I still think it's new. I think most of the people are just going to like your product because it's delicious. It's a higher quality product and you can taste it. Do you think there's something to that Jenny, or do you disagree?

• 19:14Speaker 01

  I really do. If you go super deep on the seed oil thing, that science has not reached consensus yet. So it can be fad-like right now, and so you don't want to just be known for that. People who follow that will find you. They'll see tallow, they'll see avocado oil, and they'll find you. But I will say, there is another component or an element to think about, which is, you know, you're not just moving people from one fry company to another. In Jenny's, it was the same way because your customer, when you're in grocery, is not their customer, it's the buyer. And what the buyer wants to see is, yeah, sure, you can split some votes, that's okay. Are you bringing new people to the category? And so the new people that you're bringing, sure, it's some of the seed oil people, it's some of the health-conscious people. It's also just people who love fries, who just don't think you can get good fries in

• 19:59Speaker 01

  the grocery store, and you can't make them at home. And you have a story that can back that up, and that's going to bring new people into the category. And I think the buyers are going to really want to have you on the shelf.

• 20:10Guy Raz?

  What are you guys doing for sampling? I mean, do you have air fryers set up in some of these grocery stores and just handing out a hot french fry while you're shopping for groceries? I mean, my god.

• 20:21Speaker 02

  We've done it a couple of times. We actually just were jokingly serious but joking about this idea of like, what if we just got a giant food truck and drove it down the East Coast and had a french fry tour bus and just did cool activations? But I think tasting definitely is believing. We've had a lot of success just finding these really influential people online and on social media, seeding out the product, having them give honest reviews and giving their experience, and that's been really effective. But I think you're right. When you put an air fryer out and you give somebody a couple french fries in the grocery store, it's very hard to keep them on the shelf. We're selling out stores that way, definitely.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you go right to your customer in the grocery store. I mean, it's a really great way. Sir Kensington's actually did a really cool thing. You should partner with them. They sent a truck out and they did french fries, but it was to sell their condiments. And they had this cute like container. And I happened to catch it at my Whole Foods. And they had their mayo and their ketchup. And so you would go up and you would get that. And it's like, I've been a huge fan of Sir Kensington since.

• 21:18Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I mean, you're like, as Jenny said, like when, when people would ask her to describe the flavor, she would say, we packed more as much chocolate into this pint as we could possibly get. When you have people, trained people who are sampling Jessie and Ben's at Sprouts or wherever it is, then they can say, and it's made with avocado oil or beef tallow. And, you know, whatever the pitch is, I mean, here you go. It's going to change your mind about oven fries. And it's available in the freezer section just around the corner.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  I love that. That's a pretty good pitch too, Guy. We have to hire you to do some samples.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  I love selling other people's products for them. I think it's like, it's so great. And in fact, it's a good thing to do to be, to listen to how other people talk about your products. Cause you'll talk about it one way, but listen to what other people are saying. And then also, when you're thinking about your pitch, think to your customers, think about what do I want them to say to other people? And talk to them the exact way, because what you say, they often sort of say in your words to somebody else. And that word of mouth is going to be everything.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  I think that's great advice. I really appreciate the help.

• 22:17Guy Raz?

  Jessie Koenig, the brand is called Jessie and Ben's. Thanks for calling in. Good luck, Ben.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Good luck.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  Thanks so much. We really appreciate you guys.

• 22:24Guy Raz?

  Great having you.

• 22:27Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I love french fries. And Jenny, you know, french fries and a great steak for me is like, one of the greatest moments ever.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Oh, same. I'm really excited about this, this tallow and sea salt though. And I, I agree, like, I know a lot of people are talking about tallow, but you know, like, we're just going back to like some first principles of like, how do you make great french fries? I know I'm in the Midwest, so I'm hoping that, that my stores carry them.

• 22:53Guy Raz?

  Okay, next up after the break, another caller with another business challenge. I'm Guy Raz and we're answering your questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab.

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• 26:54Guy Raz?

  Welcome back to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz, and my guest today is Jenny's Splendid Ice Creams founder, Jenny Britton. Jenny, why don't we, let's take another call.

• 27:05Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 27:06Guy Raz?

  Welcome to The Advice Line. You're on with Jenny Britton. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.

• 27:11Speaker 05

  Hello, my name is Yvonne. My name's Casey White, and I'm calling from Boston, Massachusetts. And I'm the co-founder of Jajiu Pirogi. And we specialize in high-quality Polish dumplings. We're producing high-quality Polish dumplings at scale using our grandfather's recipes to grocery stores throughout the country.

• 27:31Guy Raz?

  Amazing. Well, thanks for calling in, Casey. And so pierogies, dumplings, these are, I think most people know they are, stuffed with... Potatoes and cheese and I think you can get it with meat.

• 27:43Speaker 05

  You can put anything you want inside pasta dough, right? So we make a bunch of different flavors from potato and cheese, kielbasa, which is a pork sausage, and red bell pepper, sweet potato, caramelized onion, jalapeno cheddar, you name it, we can put it inside.

• 28:01Guy Raz?

  So this sold frozen in bags in the grocery store and like you just heat it up in the oven?

• 28:07Speaker 05

  Yep. So we boil them and freeze them. So you can air fry them, you can bake them. My favorite is sauteing that with some butter oil for about eight to 10 minutes on the stove. Um, you could even microwave them if you wanted to. So just reheating them.

• 28:21Guy Raz?

  And tell me how you started the business. Tell me the story behind it.

• 28:24Speaker 05

  Yeah. So my sister and I grew up on our grandfather's pierogi. So Jajiu is our brand name and that's the phonetic spelling of grandfather in Polish. Um, so we grew up on his pierogi and always had them like in the freezer, like our Kraft mac and cheese. Like that was our snack, our go-to thing. All of our friends would ask, hey, where'd you get those? Like I can't find handmade dumplings anywhere. And we were like, really? Because we always had them. So we just assumed that.

• 28:52Guy Raz?

  Everybody had them.

• 28:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. So we actually drove back to our grandfather's store and found his handwritten recipes in the back of the store. And just started tinkering on our kitchen table and kind of like that small business story, right? Started going to pop-ups, um, farmers markets. We started doing this around the time when breweries were like really hot and new. So pierogi and beer is like the perfect combination. So we would hop around and do that and quickly realized that, yeah, people could not find pierogi anywhere. Um, people were like driving from neighboring states to come to our events. It was crazy, but it was awesome. So we kept going with it once we, we saw that demand.

• 29:35Guy Raz?

  Wow. That's super cool. All right. So you're not sold direct to consumer or you are?

• 29:40Speaker 05

  We do sell direct to consumer on our website. Um, we don't do, it's not a large part of our business because as you said before, you know, frozen is pretty expensive.

• 29:48Guy Raz?

  It's challenging, yeah.

• 29:49Speaker 05

  Yep, not easy to do, but we do offer it. Um, and but most of our business is to grocery. So now we're in about twenty seven hundred stores throughout the country. Um, Whole Foods, Sprouts, a lot of, a lot of stores in the natural channel. And then we still do, we do have a big event part of our business that we still operate. Um, mostly in the summer months, like music festivals and stuff like that.

• 30:13Guy Raz?

  Right. And, and give us a sense of your, your sales right now.

• 30:17Speaker 05

  So last year we finished, um, at two point five million.

• 30:20Guy Raz?

  That's great.

• 30:21Speaker 05

  This year we should do almost four because we're actually getting into Costco, which is exciting.

• 30:26Guy Raz?

  Oh, wow. All right. So, so before we dive in with more questions, what, what's your question for us?

• 30:31Speaker 05

  So my question is, how does a company sustainably grow in the CPG industry without raising a ton of capital? Or is raising a ton of capital just part of the equation?

• 30:43Guy Raz?

  All right. Big question. And Jenny, I know you've got a lot of thoughts on that. Um, Jenny, questions for Casey?

• 30:49Speaker 01

  Hey, Casey. First of all, congratulations. What an accomplishment. I mean, to have twenty seven hundred plus stores is, I mean, I know from my experience at Jenny's, this is a slog. That is not easy to do. And, um, I just applaud you.

• 31:01Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  I just, I guess, when I think of bringing capital, I think the first thing I think of is, um, that entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs for a reason. And that's because we like to do things our way and differently. And we like to explore and discover and all of that. And when you bring in outside capital, you lose all of that. And so, you know, are, who's on your team? Who, how many people do you have? Are you ready to sort of like let go of that kind of control?

• 31:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's, that's the hard part, right? Cause it's like, we're a very small lean team. So we've been very methodical in our growth. Like, we've been around for nine years. And so a lot of people, right? They say, oh, like nine years, like maybe you should be in ten thousand stores or whatever. And we say like, well, we've just methodically grown because we didn't want to take, you know, outside investment and stuff like that. And so it's kind of just like that point, like, okay, if we want to get into the club stores, the big, you know, the bigger guys, like. We need some upfront money to do packaging, like just all of the logistics and all of that piece of it. And so that's what I struggle with because it's like, right, I don't want to give away control. I want to be able to still make the big decisions, but also like, where do I get the money

• 32:11Speaker 05

  from to do so?

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and that's, um, that's always that sort of catch 22 or whatever, you know, where you're trying to, uh, to grow and, and you need the money to grow. Have you looked into like SBA and like, um, the sort of SBA and bank loans? Because I think, you know, the thing is, we don't really ever talk about that. And it can be such an incredible resource, especially, you know, the, the first answer is you're doing it. This is how you do it. This is actually how you raise a company in the best way because you have control and you're growing and you're doing it. And that's another question too for you is like, what would you do with the money? I mean, it's package, if it's just packaging and getting into a store, you might be able to get a loan for that.

• 32:51Speaker 05

  Right.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Have you looked into bank loans and if that's something that you would consider versus bringing in a partner?

• 32:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, open to all options. We have taken some, um, bank loans, the SBA, uh, COVID was a great time to get federal money. Um, so that really helped us. So there's definitely that avenue. It's just funny, like being in the industry, the CPG industry, I don't know if it's because you're just surrounded by people, right? Who are always like, I raised X and I raised this and this brown series, A, B, C, D, E. Like, it's like, is this what I'm supposed to be doing? Right? But I agree with you. It's like, fine, you can get creative with how you need to front load anything, right? If it's just packaging, like in this case, most of it is, right? It's just accomplishing the execution of a new store, then why give, you know, 25% of your business away to someone who does,

• 33:43Speaker 05

  who's never going to care as much as I do?

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they're going to have a lot of opinions on how you do things.

• 33:49Guy Raz?

  And I mean, look, and to be frank, it is a, we've talked about this on the advice line before. It happens to be a more challenging environment to raise money, especially in food and CPG businesses now. You know, what I'm hearing from investors right now in the food space is they're waiting, they're really looking for brands to hit 50, really $100 million in sales. You know, a couple of years ago, it was 20. If a brand hit $20 million in sales, it was a target for acquisition, you know. That being said, I mean, you have some friends and family who have invested in the business, right?

• 34:26Speaker 05

  Right, yep. They have.

• 34:28Guy Raz?

  And so, I mean, is there talk or thought about maybe going back to them? And if that's something that you need, is that an option?

• 34:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's also, that's part of my plan of attack, right? It's like, when we did that round, you, I learned a lot about myself and my connections, right? Like, people want to help you, whether they're giving you money or not, they want to help you and they give you the advice that kind of leads you to the next person that might, you know, write that check. Who believes in your company, has been seeing us grow it for years, right? So that's kind of my first plan of attack. It's like, okay, look at my network, the people that I trust and have believed in this product, tap them first. Because I was pleasantly surprised the first time. So I probably will be pleasantly surprised the second time I do this.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Well, just to get to this other, this other point that you're making, which is like, it does feel like, and I felt like this at Jenny's too, it does feel like even now, like, like, your success as an entrepreneur is not whether you're actually selling or creating value for your customers. It's about whether you've gotten, what round of funding you're in. And I'm so fundamentally against that. I mean, I think that it has to be, as entrepreneurs, it has to be about our customers, really creating value for people. And, and honestly, I think the best way to do it is this, I talk about this at Jenny's all the time, but like, start small and build, just keep building. Jenny's took on partners in 2015, but that was, you know, we started in 2002.

• 35:53Guy Raz?

  2002, yeah.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Another business from 1996, you know, I was learning that whole time. I built my brand so that when we brought in a private equity firm, who we're still with and we love, I mean, we're very lucky on that front. But when we brought them in, the brand was established enough that I still had. Power, you know, you know, to put it frankly. Do you have a board of advisors or a board of some people that you you lean on?

• 36:19Speaker 05

  We do. We have a few. We haven't fully built out a board, which I I think we need to do.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  I have found that very helpful. I thought I thought that was helpful at Jenny's when we brought in the private equity firm in 2016, actually. We we organized a board and that just made us kind of prepare for. You know, we had to sort of tell everybody what we were doing every month. We had to get prepared for that meeting. We had to, you know. But it also helped us just organize together as a team. They were so helpful to us. So I have a new company now, Flora, and we've already formed a board. And we went out and found people who are real experts there. And I think there are a lot of people who would want to help you because you're already out proving it.

• 36:55Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 36:56Speaker 05

  Right.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  And then also, when you get to that point, if you do a little later, want to go for for funding, you've already got your board established. So that gives you a little extra leverage.

• 37:04Speaker 05

  Right.

• 37:05Guy Raz?

  I think that's I think that's great advice. Casey White, the brand is called Jajuparogi. Good luck.

• 37:10Speaker 05

  Good luck. Thank you so much.

• 37:12Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I mean, Jenny, do you know, obviously, it's a like, it's a different time environment to raise outside capital and food, right? In the food business, but it was important, right? I mean, it really helped you kind of super scale your business.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it we looked for partners and doing this at Flora, too, we look for partners who could be to add more value to the company, who could really help us. I mean, we were just a scrappy team. And when they when they came in, we sort of formed an executive team of professionals who understood how to do it. And that was a game changer because there are methods that we just you just have to know, you have to learn.

• 37:46Guy Raz?

  Yeah. What are you hearing? I mean, if anything, about fundraising for especially for food brands right now?

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Well, it's funny you should ask because I'm literally in the middle of it. I've been doing this for the last. You know, I've been building this company for two years, really scrappy, and we've gotten some angel investors for early stage, just to get us to kind of figure out what we're doing. And now we're kind of going after the bigger funding, but we are finding, yes, of course, it's very tight, very, very tight. And I think you have to have a massive opportunity where I'm hearing people say that, you know, they're looking for companies who could become a billion dollar company.

• 38:18Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  And you think about food. That's massive. You know, I mean, that's just that's just global scale almost. They're throwing around that B word a lot.

• 38:29Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 38:31Guy Raz?

  Stay with us because after the break, we'll talk to another founder working to take their business to the next level. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to The Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.

• 39:00Guy Raz?

  Welcome back to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking your calls with Jenny Britton, founder of Jenny's Splendid Ice Creams. So Jenny, let's get back into it and take another call. Okay, sure. Let's go. Hello, welcome to The Advice Line. You are on with Jenny Britton. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

• 39:19Speaker 06

  Hi Guy, hi Jenny. My name is Callie Saher. I'm calling in from Los Angeles, California. I'm the founder of Ube.co and we make organic purple sweet potato pet treats tailored to sensitive stomach and skin pets.

• 39:35Guy Raz?

  So purple sweet potato, tell me the connection between purple sweet potatoes and like dog treats for sensitive stomachs.

• 39:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, for sure. They're made of organic purple sweet potatoes as our main ingredient. The term for it is ube.

• 39:50Guy Raz?

  ube, yeah, yeah.

• 39:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, a lot of Filipino community loves that as a really high fiber ingredient in a lot of food and desserts. So I was looking at just in general in the market, there's not a lot of treats that's tailored to sensitive stomach pets. And I have a dog that has a very sensitive stomach. He is a cavapoo and he's just from when he was young, it was really hard to find high fiber treats for him. So I was cooking a lot of sweet potatoes, a lot of pumpkin. Things like that for him and then I found purple sweet potatoes.

• 40:33Speaker 06

  Um, and then I was doing a lot of research because my background is in science and um, I found that there's a lot of antioxidants and vitamins and minerals that are really good for their health um in purple sweet potatoes. So that's how it started.

• 40:48Guy Raz?

  Wow. And um, tell me where you're selling them. Are they uh, is it direct to consumer through through website right now?

• 40:54Speaker 06

  Yeah, mainly direct to consumers. We have, we're in ten local stores around LA and two in Hawaii. Um, yeah.

• 41:03Guy Raz?

  Cool. I I mean, gi- give me a sense a little bit about your sales. Have you guys broken twenty-five, fifty thousand dollars in sales yet?

• 41:09Speaker 06

  We've broken fifty thousand dollars in sales, but not to a hundred K yet.

• 41:14Guy Raz?

  Right. Okay, cool. And what's your question for us today?

• 41:16Speaker 06

  So my question is, um, right now, currently we have uh, only relied on organic growth, achieving about like thirty percent return returning customer rate online. Um, but we're facing like a really big challenge in reaching new customers. And I think to scale the business effectively, I need, I think it's time to like partner with a PR firm for marketing um, to allow me to focus on product development. So how can I find a reputable PR firm to help promote ubay.co and expand our reach?

• 41:49Guy Raz?

  All right. Jenny, I want to bring you in. Dog treats, senses stomachs, makes a lot of sense. Sweet potatoes. Let's go. Let's, let's figure this out.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Amazing. Kelly, congrats on your business. It's so cool. I mean, I'm always floored. I, I have two animals and um, I adore them and I always just like, uh, I'm really tuned in to this um, idea that people spend so much money on their pets and, and you know, we need to like care for our pets. We do. We care for them like they're our, they're our children.

• 42:15Guy Raz?

  We do.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Um, I love your background in science and I think this can really carry you. Um, and I'm just curious, as a scientist, what, what was your, how does that specifically help you wade through the research? Because when you get a PR firm, I think what, what they're gonna do is figure out what your message is. And so figuring out like, okay, let's say you're a scientist, you looked through all the research, you created this, you know, this idea based on what you know, and now you're sharing it with other people. And so have you thought about like how to use your experience in a way that communicate, to communicate that with others? And I think that would be like, I would, a PR firm might help you do too.

• 42:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, um, I've thought a lot about this, actually. I was planning to um do like a fun ingredient list for each product that I launch. Um, with the scientific terms of the ingredients in it. But also, there's a like a a little bit of hesitant in the sense that, oh, would people think that it's like more like medicinal? Or like, you know, is it chemical? You know, the the words kind of sound like scary. So I try to use just us like simpler terms, antioxidants, high in vitamins and fiber, things like that. Um, but like my message right now is not coming out as clear as I want it to be.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's so much a part of our what we what we tackle as entrepreneurs, especially in the beginning when it's just us doing everything. Getting your communications, what you're saying, right? Because you're right. Even though it matters that the science is accurate and that it's there. What are you actually communicating to the customer that that activates your customer? And you learn that by selling, by selling to people and listening to feedback with your audience. What's resonating? What are people really? I mean, yes, the product works. We hope, yes, it works, but why? And what is the thing that you can then use? Because then that becomes your communication strategy, which then leads into like when you go and try to get on the Today Show.

• 44:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think um I I uh from last year, we did a lot of farmers market and like sell directly to customers. And we found that one of the things they're most like interested about is just the Ube itself. We have a slogan called Ube for my Bay. And everyone's like, oh, I love Ube, so my dogs must love Ube too. And it turns out they do. Like, so I think that's a good way to attract people. But I think what kept the people coming back is the health benefits. The fiber, the vitamin, the antioxidants, you can see, you can see the improvement in their gut health by by feeding them the treats.

• 44:44Guy Raz?

  Uh, what about um? I mean, I know you're small and you're probably scr- scrappy, but I mean, have you tried putting playing around with social media ads?

• 44:55Speaker 06

  Yes, I've done it. Uh, just me and my husband, learning from like YouTube and everything and just launched the ads and it didn't turn out so well. Like, pretty much we we broke even on what we spent.

• 45:08Guy Raz?

  Okay. Right. Customer acquisition is getting harder and harder on social media, but I will just say this. We have a, an episode of the show coming up on Misfits Market, which sells like food that would otherwise get thrown away. You know, an apple with a blemish or something. And, and what they did, and again, this is in 2018. So it was a little slightly different environment, but still effective today. I think instead of focusing on, hey, you know, this is still edible. Or we sell food for, you know, 30% less. They would literally have like a weird freakish looking carrot, right? A photo of it. And it would just say, this carrot needs a home. That was the ad. And, and people would click on it because it was so weird. You have a product that's unusual. You're using purple sweet potatoes. I know them, right?

• 45:53Guy Raz?

  If you go to, you can get them at Trader Joe's, but a lot of people would be like, a purple sweet potato? What is that? Right? And so because you've got this sort of literally like a, what Seth Godin would call a purple cow product. Right? It's so, it's unusual. It stands out. I feel like that could be really just an interesting thing to try.

• 46:13Speaker 06

  Right, right. I think, um, I think we just need a lot of guidance in, in marketing and PR right now. Because I've, I've tried a few things and I'm, I, I honestly am not good at social media. And I have hired a part-time person to help me with TikTok. And it's, um, not working as well as I want it to. Because obviously people don't care as much as I do. So, um, and I, I've been reached out by so many PR firms in Los Angeles, obviously, that like they could help. They could help pitch. They could help get us into stores. They could help. They promised so many, it's not like a promise, but they're trying to sell their PR firms, obviously. But it's just hard to find who I can trust.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  I find that PR firms can be really awesome, but you have to have somebody, you have to have somebody at that firm who is your champion.

• 47:05Guy Raz?

  Yes.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Who adores you, who believes in you, who wants to push it forward. Otherwise it falls flat and you just, you, you kind of go nowhere and it's very expensive. You might be better suited to spend that money on somebody who can work for you in multiple places, who could have some contacts with media or know how to speak to them, might be able to also help you with social media or even do that, but who can really organize this communication. Just somebody who's like saying, this is our message out there and where are we gonna put it? Who are we gonna tell this to? Who can just kinda come in and help organize all that and then that is their only job. And it wouldn't even, doesn't even have to be full time yet, you know?

• 47:48Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I think that's really a device. PR firms are tricky, right? I mean, if you find, it's that perfect fit and Jenny's right. I mean, they have to love the product and if you can find somebody. I mean, look, if you find a firm that has made a pitch and you say to them, look, my budget is, you know, $10,000 or $5,000, like this is what we can pay. So show us what you can do with that. I mean, there's an argument to be made that you could, if you're willing to take that kind of risk with that amount of money, it might be worth the risk.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:19Guy Raz?

  You say, you know, I don't know social media well, and I think most people feel that way. Like, I don't know how to do it, but the reality is, most people who do know how to do it, they just figured it out by doing it.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  I love the idea of really going into social media. I know that it's all very scary. But Guy is right, you learn by doing it. And also just remember that like, people like authenticity and especially now, when it doesn't seem like anything is authentic. And you're such an authentic person, I can tell, you know, I mean, obviously. And people like that realness and just saying, just going out and saying, try to keep it under 30 seconds or even under 15. Just try to say like, this is why I did this. This is why it's good for your puppy. Just show the behind the scenes and just start doing it. And then part of social media too, a big part of it is just talking to everybody else. So going on every other, anybody who's talking about dogs or pets. Being on their feed, talking to them.

• 49:14Speaker 06

  Right. I was doing that a lot last year. That's why I started hiring hiring another person to help me with like the comments, the likes, the messaging, all that, because it was taking a lot of my time. I'm still a full-time scientist at UCLA. Um, and so this is like a part-time passion business, you know, side thing that I hope to, hope that it will turn into a full-time one day. But we depend a lot on brand ambassadors. Like we use an app that like, you know, search for bed brand ambassadors and they get like a percentage of the sales. So that has been really helpful. They make really good contents. But I, I do think the messaging needs to be a little more clear.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  I just want to say, like, when you said, I'm a full-time scientist at UCLA, like, I want to hear that. I'm a full-time scientist at UCLA. I started a dog food company because I needed something to feed my dog.

• 50:03Guy Raz?

  Totally.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  You know, and I decided to use Ube because it's purple. You need color. You need vibrancy. You need fiber. Our dogs, you know, we all do. I love that so much. Just that message over and over and over and over again.

• 50:15Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  People invest in, in you, even consumers and customers. Like, they want to know that, like, oh, this came from somebody who really cares and really knows what they're doing.

• 50:23Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:24Guy Raz?

  Totally. Yeah. Hundred percent agree. The brand is called ube.co. Callie, thanks so much.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 50:30Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 50:30Guy Raz?

  Thanks so much for calling in and good luck. Um, Jenny, I've already asked you about luck or skill on the show many years ago, but I have a different question for you, which is if you were able to go back, you know, even in not, not just at the beginning, but like 2005, 2010, you know, when you were still really scrappy business, you weren't this national brand yet. What, what advice now, you know, now that you know what you know, here at this point in your, in your life and career, do you think might have been helpful for you to have known then?

• 51:02Speaker 01

  Oh, this is, I mean, this is what I say when, if, if people say, what, what would you have done differently?

• 51:07Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  And there are a lot of things I would have done differently, but it's all about who. In 20, in 2005, 2006, 70, what I needed on my team were, um, I needed a coach. I needed to understand how founders carry power in companies as we were beginning to grow. There are leadership things that you can learn pretty quickly, especially if you have somebody on your side who can help you. A business advisor. That was so important to me, especially as we started to grow and to like bring on people from the outside. And I needed to learn how to speak that language. I needed somebody on my side, outside of the company. And then I would just say, a great attorney. As a founder, you know, you have your company attorney or whatever, but you do need to have kind of your own really great attorney, just to have somebody to ask questions. There's

• 51:51Speaker 01

  so much. And if you're a leader in your company, you really need to have an understanding of law. So those people I would have had definitely on my side. Now, going back a little earlier than that, I think we get to like where Cali is, and I would have, I would also say communications. That was something that I spent a lot of time trying to figure out. And it would have been really, really cool to have somebody who could just could come and say, here, here's what you're doing really well. This is what people are resonating with. Because you might, whatever you think is probably not the same as what's going on over the counter. So having that communications person to just help me know what I should be saying every single day.

• 52:25Guy Raz?

  Yeah, that's great advice. That's Jenny Britton, founder of Jenny's Splendid Ice Creams. Jenny, thanks so much for coming back on the show.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, this has been so much fun. Thank you for inviting me, Guy, and to your team.

• 52:36Guy Raz?

  You're the best. You're the best. It's great having you. And by the way, if you haven't heard Jenny's original How I Built This episode, you've got to go back and check it out. We'll put a link in the podcast description. And here's one of my favorite moments from that interview.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  It was the call that none of us could have imagined, ever wanted to get. A pint of ice cream in Lincoln, Nebraska, tested positive for listeria. So we decided that we were going to recall everything, which meant that 265 tons of ice cream that had been out in the world came back to us. And there we were.

• 53:09Guy Raz?

  Did you think there was a possibility that you would shut down, that your business could basically end?

• 53:15Speaker 01

  I think at that point, we realized that that was it. And it was weird, because I kept a journal at the time. And I was like, I don't even have any ideas.

• 53:27Guy Raz?

  Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at guyraz.com. Each week it's packed with tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions you'd like help with, and hopefully we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at [email protected] or call us at 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there.

• 54:12Guy Raz?

  And we'll put all this in the podcast description as well.

• 54:17Guy Raz?

  This episode was produced by Catherine Seifer with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Neil Rousch. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Elaine Coats, Casey Herman, J.C. Howard, Iman Maani, Chris Messina, Kerry Thompson, Neva Grant, and Sam Paulson. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This.