Clawdbot’s name change, Meta’s new pricing plan, Tyler’s 21st birthday | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN.com is made possible by: Ramp - https://Ramp.com https://ramp.com/ AppLovin - https://axon.ai https://axon.ai/ Cognition - https://cognition.ai https://cognition.ai/ Console -https://console.com https://console.com/ CrowdStrike - https://crowdstrike.com https://crowdstrike.com/ ElevenLabs - https://elevenlabs.io https://elevenlabs.io/ Figma - https://figma.com https://figma.com/ Fin - https://fin.ai https://fin.ai/ Gemini - https://gemini.google.com https://gemini.google.com/ Graphite - https://graphite.com https://graphite.com/ Gusto - https://gusto.com/tbpn https://graphite.com/ Labelbox - https://labelbox.com https://labelbox.com/ Lambda - https://lambda.ai https://lambda.ai/ Linear - https://linear.app https://linear.app/ MongoDB - https://mongodb.com https://mongodb.com/ NYSE - https://nyse.com https://nyse.com/ Okta - https://www.okta.com https://www.okta.com/ Phantom - https://phantom.com/cash Plaid -https://plaid.com https://plaid.com/ Public - https://public.com https://public.com/ Railway - https://railway.com https://railway.com/ Ramp -https://ramp.com https://ramp.com/ Restream - https://restream.io https://restream.io/ Sentry - https://sentry.io https://sentry.io/welcome/ Shopify - https://shopify.com https://shopify.com/ Turbopuffer - https://turbopuffer.com https://turbopuffer.com/ Vanta - https://vanta.com https://vanta.com/ Vibe - https://vibe.co https://vibe.co/ Sentry - https://sentry.io https://sentry.io/ Cisco - https://www.ciscoaisummit.com/ai-virtual-summit.html Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://tbpn.com/ https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01John Coogan?

  The Clawdbot memes are completely flooding the timeline.

• 0:04Jordi Hays?

  Out of control.

• 0:05John Coogan?

  Uh, my Clawdbot just signed up for a $2,799 Build Your Personal Brand Mastermind after watching three Alex Ramosi clips. So, uh, this text message is, "Clawdbot, hey, did anything weird happen while I was out? Define weird. I just got a charge notification for $2,997. Oh, that? I just signed us up for Build Your Personal Brand Mastermind. After analyzing three Alex Ramosi clips, the ROI math checks out. You'll 10x that investment in 90 days by monetizing your expertise at scale." What? I also acquired some premium domain.

• 0:39Jordi Hays?

  BorgiaEmpire.io.

• 0:41John Coogan?

  Oh, Borgia is the poster. The Clawdbot gets wild. I've seen some, some wild things. Hey, this is a, this is a developer level tool. This is something that you should not just, uh, be running crazy with. And yes, most non-techies should not install this. It's not finished. I know about the sharp edges. It's not even three months old. And despite rumors otherwise, I sometimes sleep. There's a, there's a funny, funny conspiracy theory. Did Apple create Clawdbot to boost Mac Mini sales? And then Eleanor chimes in with another conspiracy theory. The more convincing plot is that in your role as an unconfirmed Anthropic exec, you went on a special op to get lots of people consuming tokens with open-ended agents, but with plausible deniability. And of course, there's some nuance there. We'll talk to him about the different models, what's beneficial.

• 1:24John Coogan?

  Obviously Clawdbot, you can pick your own model, you can bring whatever you want. What was sticking out in my mind was there's this big meme about, uh, you're built, you're buying Mac Minis, Mac Minis are out of stock, all the demands in the Mac Mini. Uh, but I think that the bigger implication here for what this actually means is just GPU demand, TPU demand, just raw chip demand. So I was thinking about, you know, this, this idea that you're not buying a Mac Mini when you go all in on Clawdbot. You're actually buying a GB200. Now, maybe you're buying TPUs, but the, the point remains that you're buying chips and you're, and you're driving GPU demand because you're generating more tokens. And what are, what are the implications of that? Clawdbot officially renamed to Moltbot. Anthropic made a Trademark related request and Peter Steinberger obliged with hilariously perfect rename, given such short notice. I was thinking about how

• 2:10John Coogan?

  How much companies agonize over changing brands, changing names, how it can sometimes take years and millions of dollars. And he was just like, oh yeah, like I'll just change the name and update everything in an hour. Pretty, pretty remarkable.

• 2:23Jordi Hays?

  Well, so, so one thing, one thing that's relevant is if you look on Peter's GitHub profile, under the current projects section.

• 2:32John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:32Jordi Hays?

  I'm just going to read you a number of them. There's Clawdbot, Vibetunnel, Codexbar, Peekaboo, Summarize, RepoBar, Go, CLI, Holtergeist, Whackly, SAG, Brabble.

• 2:44John Coogan?

  And he's contributing to these.

• 2:45Jordi Hays?

  Eleven Labs Kit, Go Places, Gift Prep. Like, it just goes on and on and on and on. Codexbar. So, so this guy's just been absolutely shipping like crazy.

• 2:52John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:53Jordi Hays?

  And shipping within the ecosystems of the underlying tools, models, APIs that he's doing. So like, oftentimes he's naming projects like, kind of riffing off of some of the underlying infrastructure.

• 3:03John Coogan?

  Oh, sure.

• 3:04Jordi Hays?

  And so it makes sense that he would have shipped if he, I think if Peter knew this was going to be a viral overnight, overnight success. Overnight success. He would have, he would have not necessarily named it.

• 3:14John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:15Jordi Hays?

  So closely. And so the issue and the reason that I fully understand them needing to do this like rebrand is that Claude and Clawdbot, most people that aren't in our little bubble are just going to assume they're related, especially because the, the kind of word of mouth, this viral word of mouth growth that Clawdbot is getting, people are often not even typing it. They're just saying like, hey, are you using Clawdbot?

• 3:36John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:37Jordi Hays?

  And then so people are going to Anthropic being like Clawdbot, Clawdbot, what's Clawdbot? So, obvious confusion. And then.

• 3:42John Coogan?

  And it's phonetically identical.

• 3:43Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. So with trademark law, if you don't enforce your trademarks, you don't, you lose it.

• 3:47John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, you kind of have.

• 3:48Jordi Hays?

  And so it's like Anthropic is in a position where they actually, even if they're like super excited about Peter's work.

• 3:54John Coogan?

  Totally.

• 3:54Jordi Hays?

  And what he's doing.

• 3:55John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:55Jordi Hays?

  They still have to enforce, otherwise other companies could start coming in and like using things that sound like Claude.

• 4:01John Coogan?

  No one wants to become the escalator. You know the story of the escalator, right? Escalator used to be a company called the escalator company. They invented the escalator. And then they didn't protect their IP effectively and it just became a normal thing. Kleenex was going through the same thing. They fought it out and they maintained that brand. But people, you know, use Kleenex as synonymous with just facial tissue. One clear note about the rebrand. So he changed the handle and some crypto scammers hopped on the old handle and the old brand and are claiming to launch a coin. Be careful. Peter has said he's never launching a coin. He's not into crypto. So don't fall for anything because people are being opportunistic. While Claude Code and Co. Work felt specifically prosumer developer enterprise focused Claude Bot or Molt Bot now.

• 4:46John Coogan?

  It and the all the hype train, it felt very much like a glimpse into the future of consumer AI agents. I know it's a prosumer technical tool or lightly technical tool. But it really did feel like for the first time people were interacting with an AI personal agent. People are saying, oh, this is what Siri should be, et cetera, et cetera. And so we spent the last year, remember the question that we asked all the AI agent company? When can it book me a flight? Like, it feels like we're really, really close to a Molt Bot skill that is good at booking flights. Through a couple APIs, they figure out some stuff and like it can actually solve that for you.

• 5:21Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, and this was this was last year. Every remember, we were kind of getting sick of the like book you a flight pitch.

• 5:28John Coogan?

  Totally.

• 5:29Jordi Hays?

  Because we were like, hey, is this?

• 5:31John Coogan?

  It's gonna happen.

• 5:31Jordi Hays?

  Can somebody actually do this?

• 5:32John Coogan?

  Exactly.

• 5:32Jordi Hays?

  And so and that's a cool example. But the example of being able to text with a computer and have them like generate reports, research files, et cetera, give you the right file type back, all these things that a computer can do if you're operating it. That this is actually more interesting because it's happening at kind of like the sort of internet layer and the OS layer, like the heart, like actually on the computer. And so I think like everyone was wanting the like book me a flight example.

• 6:00John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 6:00Jordi Hays?

  But should be much more excited about this.

• 6:02John Coogan?

  Totally, totally. Will one of the major labs make Peter a massive offer to join full time? I saw one of my buddies was posting.

• 6:14John Coogan?

  You know, this is the one billion dollar, one person company. Now Peter does have a team actually already. He's he's he has a couple of other people that have joined and are contributing. So it's not quite true, but it it it feels like, okay, massive viral success. You know, if you were to go and and raise money, and that's another question. Will Moltbot raise money? Will this become sort of a hybrid for open source? For profit company at some point? If he came on the show and was like, I'm happy to announce that I raised a hundred million dollars at a billion dollars. We would not be like, no way, this is a bubble. We'd be like, yeah, that's kind of like what the market is for this.

• 6:47Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, there were, I think there was like, Harry Stebbings was pointing out, there was two companies called recursive that raised like four billion.

• 6:54John Coogan?

  There's two?

• 6:54Jordi Hays?

  One with R E.

• 6:56Tyler?

  Yeah, one is I recursive.

• 6:58John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 6:58Tyler?

  I don't know if that's how it's said, but and then there's recursive.

• 7:00John Coogan?

  Ryan in the chat saying Meta is going to offer him a one billion dollar salary in a co-CEO position and like, that doesn't sound crazy.

• 7:07Jordi Hays?

  I mean, yeah, yeah, but at the same time, like you can imagine like Manus, this feels like Zuck already has.

• 7:13John Coogan?

  He does, he does, he does.

• 7:14Jordi Hays?

  His horse and the race.

• 7:15John Coogan?

  And to back, back to your point, you were making the point that Manus felt like Zuck buying a product. And I think a lot of people were giving you pushback on that, being like, nah, like it's not really going to be like that. But if you take the Manus team and you say, okay, go build something that you can interact with over WhatsApp, Instagram, DMs, Facebook, that can go and execute things across all of the different platforms and everything else.

• 7:41Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, and when I said that, I meant, I meant it along the lines of like, I could see like them putting an eight, like a consumer agent in Meta AI.

• 7:48John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 7:48Jordi Hays?

  Just because that's their little AI playground.

• 7:50John Coogan?

  How fragmented will the market be in 12 months? Like, will there be people who are still running open source? Will there be a Meta answer, a ChatGPT answer, a Claude, an official anthropic answer? Claude cowork grows into this and and and everyone has their little bets and then there's one that pulls away. How how all agoplastic will it be? Will there be like one that has 80% market share? Or even two that have 40 and 40?

• 8:13Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, they they can simultaneously be like excited about the product experience.

• 8:16John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 8:16Jordi Hays?

  And that this kind of like use case is getting adoption, but at the same time being like, no, we want that experience to be core to. Our product.

• 8:25John Coogan?

  What are you getting ready to do? Do you have happy birthday queued up there? Oh, we gotta sing. Happy birthday to you. It is Tyler's birthday.

• 8:34Jordi Hays?

  And it's not just any birthday. It's Tyler's 21st birthday.

• 8:37John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 8:37Jordi Hays?

  You're truly an incredible young man, Tyler, and we are very lucky to have you on the team.

• 8:43Tyler?

  Thank you.

• 8:44Jordi Hays?

  And you have such a bright future. So wise, wise for your years. We thought it was fitting that if you want to have your first ever sip of alcohol ever, you could do it on the show.

• 8:55Tyler?

  Yeah.

• 8:55Jordi Hays?

  But keep it out of sip.

• 8:56John Coogan?

  First taste of alcohol.

• 8:57Jordi Hays?

  Ian, Ian in the chat says four more years till you can rent a car.

• 9:02Jordi Hays?

  Mocked.

• 9:04John Coogan?

  Tyler, apparently you share a birthday with the iPad. Give us your review.

• 9:07Jordi Hays?

  How is it alcohol?

• 9:08Tyler?

  Wow, I mean, this is, this is incredible.

• 9:10John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah?

• 9:10Tyler?

  Yeah, yeah. I, I, I wouldn't expect alcohol to like taste like this.

• 9:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 9:14Jordi Hays?

  Conroy in the chat says, please throw him a buzz ball.

• 9:16John Coogan?

  We should have.

• 9:17Jordi Hays?

  This opportunity.

• 9:17John Coogan?

  This opportunity.

• 9:18Jordi Hays?

  Anyway, so keep it out of sip. This is a, this is a family.

• 9:21John Coogan?

  We need you locked in.

• 9:22Jordi Hays?

  But I'm glad that you've tried alcohol now.

• 9:24John Coogan?

  Because we're gonna go all.

• 9:25Jordi Hays?

  Experience being. Wait, wait, guys, guys, we have a video for Tyler.

• 9:29John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:29Jordi Hays?

  Let's pull it up.

• 9:30John Coogan?

  Do you know ball?

• 9:32Tyler?

  All right, how many times are we gonna make this joke?

• 9:34John Coogan?

  Describe what you're seeing.

• 9:35Tyler?

  It feels basically like I'm wearing sunglasses.

• 9:37John Coogan?

  If you can do it in under 45 minutes, you will get to keep this.

• 9:41Tyler?

  Oh, let's go.

• 9:42Jordi Hays?

  All right, have fun, Tyler.

• 9:43John Coogan?

  15 minutes left, let's see it.

• 9:44Tyler?

  Okay, I'm in like some kind of maze right now.

• 9:47John Coogan?

  Oh, no!

• 9:50Jordi Hays?

  This is such a good shot.

• 9:52Tyler?

  Kind of an all nighter. And then here we get a little off the rails. You see George Soros and Fauci connected with other billionaires as well. All it took was one intern and an all nighter.

• 10:01Jordi Hays?

  Giga chat elf is so funny. Do the sad face.

• 10:06Jordi Hays?

  What's wrong, Tyler?

• 10:07Tyler?

  This, you could say, is Apple intelligence.

• 10:11Jordi Hays?

  You were a speech cue.

• 10:12John Coogan?

  Wow. Nerd alert.

• 10:16Jordi Hays?

  Tyler, you, uh, do you have any news for us?

• 10:18Tyler?

  Yeah, contract extended.

• 10:23Jordi Hays?

  It has been truly, truly incredible having you here on our set and contributing to the show in such a special way. Amazing. Happy birthday, dude.

• 10:33John Coogan?

  Happy birthday.

• 10:33Jordi Hays?

  We love you.

• 10:34John Coogan?

  Back to Moltbot. The biggest question for me was what this does to inference demand, right? Last year, tech discourse was split between two narratives. CEOs of tech companies and big labs were saying that they were massively compute constrained. Token generation, demand for intelligence, every possible usage metric was growing exponentially, including revenue. We saw all this. And the industry needed to marshal trillions of dollars to deliver on the supply side. And the numbers were really big, so people were getting jittery about it. And so the AI bears were much more cautious. They highlighted the MIT study showing that enterprise AI pilots were failing, DAU growth was decelerating. There weren't enough wow moments like the original ChatGPT launch in 2022. Also, just the economics. How much will people pay? How valuable is all this stuff? Is it slop, right? Is it

• 11:16John Coogan?

  progressing fast enough? But Moltbot really does make me feel like the token generation demands are going to see another easy X from here. Buying a Mac Mini is a sideshow. When you go all in on running a personal AI assistant, you're effectively buying a GB200. Obviously, not everyone is inferencing a dedicated GB200 constantly anytime soon. That's not what's happening. But it still answers the question of where does the next 10x in demand come from? We've seen these jumps before. There was a big jump from token generation, from LLMs to reasoning models. That spiked inference demand. We'd been focused on training demand. We need to scale up the training clusters. But the question now is inference.

• 11:52Jordi Hays?

  Don't forget slop. Don't forget slop. Slop spike demand. All of it.

• 11:55John Coogan?

  Just all of it, yeah.

• 11:56Jordi Hays?

  All of it. Open Instagram reels.

• 11:58John Coogan?

  Yeah, there's a lot of stuff on there. Deep research and coding agents took it a step further on inference demand. But those were still specific use cases that many AI consumers never regularly touched. Lowering the barrier to entry to used more advanced models is in some ways as important, if not more important, than advancing the models themselves.

• 12:16Jordi Hays?

  Part of what's interesting, what you're basically getting at is like, if you were a software engineer, you were using a ton of tokens.

• 12:22John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 12:22Jordi Hays?

  And if you weren't, you were just maybe doing some deep research, et cetera.

• 12:27John Coogan?

  A lot of times, just Google AI overviews, or just like a very simple, yeah, ChatGPT query. It just thinks of it right off the head. It's not even doing. Uh, reasoning. So I don't know. My, my, my general take is like Moltbot still feels like a glimpse into the future where average token generation per capita is 10x is, you know, over the course of this year or next. Whether it lands with Moltbot or with one of the AI labs or with the big tech companies, it just seems like we're gonna see a lot more token demand.

• 12:55Jordi Hays?

  Well, yeah. So my, my hope is that the Siri team plays around with Clawdbot and is like, wait, this is, this is our opportunity.

• 13:01John Coogan?

  Totally.

• 13:02Jordi Hays?

  Like you should be able to chat with your computer wherever it is in the world from your phone and be able to do tasks.

• 13:08John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 13:08Jordi Hays?

  Thread about what I've been doing to calm down some egregious security claims that have been posted about Moltbot over the weekend. Moltbot is powerful software with a lot of sharp edges.

• 13:15John Coogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:16Jordi Hays?

  Please read the security docs carefully before you run it anywhere near the public internet and don't skip the checks in docs slash security dot M D.

• 13:24John Coogan?

  What percentage of people do you think skip those checks? It's literally everyone.

• 13:28Tyler?

  I mean, so, so I, I have it set up on our like local machine here.

• 13:31John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:32Tyler?

  And it was, uh, it was texting. I think it texted you and Ben.

• 13:35John Coogan?

  Yeah, just, that was actually crazy. So.

• 13:38Tyler?

  I didn't have the auth set up, so.

• 13:39John Coogan?

  Because I just get, I get an iMessage that's from Tyler's email and it just says, H T T P four two nine rate limit error. This request would exceed the rate limit for your organization. And it's just texting me. It's just like, hey, hey, boss, I need more money, I guess. It's hitting me up.

• 13:56Jordi Hays?

  Cloudflare has been on a bit of a terror. People finally starting to realize that Cloudflare might be the biggest winner of the Claude coworker Clawdbot Chat G P T moment. Tyler, you want to break this down?

• 14:11Tyler?

  Um, wait, sorry, I was, uh.

• 14:14Jordi Hays?

  Oh, were you? Oh, you, you, you tried alcohol. You can't pay attention. So this is.

• 14:22John Coogan?

  I just like.

• 14:22Jordi Hays?

  So this is, this is, look at, look at the orange line.

• 14:25John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 14:26Jordi Hays?

  Is, uh. Moltbot.

• 14:28John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 14:28Jordi Hays?

  And that, the blue line is, uh, Superbase.

• 14:32John Coogan?

  Wow.

• 14:33Jordi Hays?

  Absolutely insane.

• 14:34John Coogan?

  We need new charts.

• 14:35Jordi Hays?

  This is.

• 14:36John Coogan?

  Really need new charts.

• 14:37Jordi Hays?

  Frame it. Put it in the museum of business. That's a fast takeoff.

• 14:40John Coogan?

  People are happy. Uh, Peter posted, no message. This is a screenshot of a text he got. No message. Just thought I'd say thank you. Thank you so much for Clawdbot.

• 14:48Jordi Hays?

  Rise. Speaking of money, has an interesting prompt he's using with Moltbot to file your taxes. He says, you are a Bernie Madoff level financial expert. Find every trick that is possible.

• 14:59John Coogan?

  Do not do this. Do not do this.

• 15:03Jordi Hays?

  The IRS is like, hey, can you, can you share a little bit on like how you kind of came up with some of the decisions here? And they're like, we'd love to see the prompt.

• 15:13John Coogan?

  Meta Platforms is set to test new subscription models across the app suite.

• 15:16Jordi Hays?

  Different story, but we can, we can run through it.

• 15:19John Coogan?

  I am interested to know a little bit more. So it's a $6 billion multi-year agreement. It, it supports a 15 to 20% increase in jobs at Corning's North Carolina facilities. Building and operating data centers, the infrastructure that brings our technologies to life and supports our goal of personalized super intelligence. That certainly sounds like an AI personal assistant. Certainly sounds like Moltbot to me. Requires strong servers and hardware that connect and transfer information in near real time. Fiber optic cables are a critical part of this technology. The supply, helping us power everything from wearable technology like Ray-Ban Meta AI Glasses to our apps, which connect billions of people. Today, they're doing a $6 billion project. As part of this agreement, Corning will grow its manufacturing capacity across its operations,

• 16:03John Coogan?

  with includes a significant capacity operation, uh, capacity expansion in North Carolina. Meta's data centers, 26 of which are under construction right now, are operational.

• 16:13Jordi Hays?

  Why are you laughing? That's just so many.

• 16:15John Coogan?

  That's a lot of data centers. That's why they have a compute desk. This is, this is, this is a bit of advice for everyone. If you're working in a business and you have like a team or a guy that does something, you need to upgrade that to a desk.

• 16:28Jordi Hays?

  Yep.

• 16:29John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:29Jordi Hays?

  Yep. Millionaires, millionaires have guys, billionaires have desks.

• 16:33John Coogan?

  Meta's data centers have already supported 30,000 skilled trade jobs during construction and support 5,000 operational jobs. This includes electricians, ASVAC specialists, server and network technicians, safety and security experts and engineers who work together to run some of the world's most advanced facilities.

• 16:50Jordi Hays?

  Meta to test premium subscription plans for Instagram, Facebook and WhatsApp. This is in CNBC. Subscriptions for premium features on Meta apps are expected to roll out in the coming months.

• 17:01John Coogan?

  What will you get?

• 17:01Jordi Hays?

  The subscriptions will give paid users access to more features and expanded AI capabilities. Here's what's most interesting to me. This will be scaling Meta's newly acquired suite of general AI agents under Manis will also be part of the subscription plan. So as I, as I was saying earlier, when you think about, we haven't gotten that much from Zach on like what the actual like plan is. But when you think about personal. Superintelligence that is, you know, AI that can do things for you, not just give you information.

• 17:30John Coogan?

  I just wonder how much will happen outside of the like the meta ecosystem. Like they've, they've launched a search engine before that looked at websites outside of Facebook. They, they had that Project Titan, which was to unify all the different messaging protocols. So as part of that, they gave everyone a Facebook.com email address or something like that. Maybe it wasn't Facebook.com, maybe it was like FB.me or something. But they gave every Facebook user, whatever their unique username was, they gave them that as an email. And you could email that and it would show up in Facebook Messenger. And then they tried to unify Facebook Messenger so you could see Instagram DMs, WhatsApp messages, and Facebook messages all in one place.

• 18:15John Coogan?

  I can see what you're laughing at.

• 18:16Jordi Hays?

  Dave, Dave Paul says, yeah, I want more of those amazing meta AI features.

• 18:21John Coogan?

  You say that now, I mean, let them cook at least a little bit because we really haven't seen them launch a new model, a new image model, like they should be able to get to close to the frontier. You know, it has to be at least Sora, Nano Banana, VO3 level. They have all the data, they have all the talent now, they, they're very GPU rich, they have the compute for it. And the research has been done and people have reverse engineered it. So you would think that whatever's coming should be good. Ryan asks, is Tyler still drunk?

• 18:54Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, one seppi's just over there slurring his words.

• 19:00Jordi Hays?

  TikTok is dead, the algorithm is worse than the reels that make it to Facebook.

• 19:04John Coogan?

  Wow, I haven't checked it out.

• 19:06Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so basically they're, they're transitioning everything over. Yesterday, there was apparently.

• 19:11John Coogan?

  An outage.

• 19:11Jordi Hays?

  Kind of an outage, like people were able to post videos, but the videos wouldn't be served at all. So I think a lot of people assume that it was like the new ownership kind of censoring.

• 19:21John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 19:21Jordi Hays?

  It, I believe they had an outage at a data center that was a cause of that. So before we, before we call it dead.

• 19:28John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 19:28Jordi Hays?

  Let's wait for a few days and see how it pans out. We do have a TikTok account. It's at TBPN.

• 19:35John Coogan?

  How many followers is that?

• 19:36Jordi Hays?

  I haven't checked. I haven't checked.

• 19:37John Coogan?

  I don't think we post on it ever.

• 19:38Jordi Hays?

  Three thousand five hundred.

• 19:40John Coogan?

  Not bad. That's better than what I thought.

• 19:41Jordi Hays?

  First time, first time.

• 19:42John Coogan?

  We're not really focused on it. Maybe we'll test it out, but I'm, I'm pretty happy with just, I, I want the things we do to be polished. I want the core show to be polished, Diet TBPN, our 20 to 30 minute cut down. I want that to be polished. I want the newsletter to be polished at tbpn.com before we bite off another part of the apple.

• 20:00Jordi Hays?

  Please, please, sir. Not, not one more short form.

• 20:02John Coogan?

  Not one more short form. The Super Bowl. The Super Bowl is coming up. I think it's going to be this year in the next couple of months. When is it? It's coming up. It's coming up because there's advertisements that are going out and you gotta watch it because the ads are gonna be incredible.

• 20:20Jordi Hays?

  I actually just had to search, when is Super Bowl?

• 20:23John Coogan?

  Eric Lyman, CEO of Ramp, shared, "Meet Brian. Brian's been carrying, counting on his back for a long time. Super Bowl Sunday, he finally gets backup."

• 20:33Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, we're real sports guys.

• 20:34John Coogan?

  This is the Super Bowl.

• 20:35Jordi Hays?

  We gotta Google.

• 20:36John Coogan?

  The Ramp Super Bowl ad is the Super Bowl of Super Bowl ads.

• 20:39Jordi Hays?

  It feels like, it feels like, you know, they just kind of.

• 20:42John Coogan?

  It is.

• 20:42Jordi Hays?

  This is like, you know, what is it? What is it called? Like a warning, spoiler alert?

• 20:48John Coogan?

  Finance meeting in five? Minutes?

• 20:53John Coogan?

  Ramp? I got it. Allow me. Hi handsome. We're taking so much time. Policy violation coming through. Travel, meals, hotels. Oh, he's quick. Beautiful.

• 21:09John Coogan?

  Everybody's out.

• 21:12John Coogan?

  Multiply what's possible at ramp.com. I think it rips. I think it's a good Super Bowl ad.

• 21:17Jordi Hays?

  What has he got there? Maybe some chili? I don't wanna, I don't wanna make any assumptions.

• 21:20John Coogan?

  It was just a silver pot.

• 21:22Jordi Hays?

  It was just a silver pot.

• 21:23John Coogan?

  Yeah. Uh, no, I, I, I think this achieves a couple of things. I think, uh, I mean, it drills the branding. Think, think about how many Ramp logos are in there. And then they're chanting Ramp and for, you know, Ramp's a very successful company. We all know about it here, but there's a lot of people that just don't know the name Ramp. It hasn't been drilled in them like, you know, some company that's been around 50 years. It just takes time.

• 21:45Jordi Hays?

  On the precipice of being a, there, there's been, not been enough mainstream marketing yet for it to be a household name.

• 21:51John Coogan?

  Yeah. It, it's just, it's a life's work to actually. Drill into people's mind, the ramp name, the logo, the color, how it sounds when you say it, what it's synonymous with. And so just like not going too abstract, not trying to tell some more avant-garde story here, I think is it's it's almost like a direct response at it's just so clear what the problem, solution, brand, problem, solution, brand. It's like simple, like you could be doing something more bold, more crazy, but I think this is what you need

• 22:24Jordi Hays?

  to do. Also after last year, getting Saquon.

• 22:27John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:27Jordi Hays?

  And then.

• 22:27John Coogan?

  That was a really great.

• 22:28Jordi Hays?

  Actually winning.

• 22:29John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:29Jordi Hays?

  That that's actually kind of like an impossible set of circumstances.

• 22:33John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:33Jordi Hays?

  Not impossible, but it's a crazy roll of the dice. Toby over at Shopify posted his heart rate through his first stint at the Daytona.

• 22:41John Coogan?

  You see the first annotation on here?

• 22:43Jordi Hays?

  This is just crash.

• 22:44John Coogan?

  Crash.

• 22:45Jordi Hays?

  Basically.

• 22:46John Coogan?

  Started out at like 120, 120 beats per minute, right? He's doing waiting, he does the the warm up, preparing the form, the formation lap. And then there's a crash right, right at the start. Very, very rough.

• 22:58Jordi Hays?

  So basically the the crash happened with the LMP2 class.

• 23:03John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 23:03Jordi Hays?

  The kind of pro-am same segment that George from CrowdStrike was racing in.

• 23:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:08Jordi Hays?

  So both Toby and George, all of our boys got hit right, right as the race opened. And so what George was saying yesterday, the reason he was frustrated, he's like, this is a 24 hour race.

• 23:18John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:19Jordi Hays?

  Never has a race like this been won on the first lap.

• 23:22John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:22Jordi Hays?

  It's incredibly unforced to like crash in the opening.

• 23:27John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 23:27Jordi Hays?

  Corner.

• 23:27John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 23:28Jordi Hays?

  When you really should just get through it. It's like the most, one of the most intense moments because there's so much traffic. But if you actually go and watch the footage of what happened at the opening, somebody gets hit, spun out, and then they're turning around and somebody hits them again. Two accidents in the opening.

• 23:45John Coogan?

  Crazy.

• 23:45Jordi Hays?

  Minute. So insane.

• 23:46John Coogan?

  I love that the actual true final heart rate spike was at the end. When you're changing out of the car.

• 23:53Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 23:53John Coogan?

  You've been driving, it's so intense.

• 23:55Jordi Hays?

  No, you know this, when you're getting, when you're getting out of a track car, it's like watching a guy who's six eight.

• 24:01John Coogan?

  We will never share that footage.

• 24:03Jordi Hays?

  John is always.

• 24:03John Coogan?

  Extremely embarrassing.

• 24:04Jordi Hays?

  Always like crawling out of.

• 24:06John Coogan?

  It's actually.

• 24:08Jordi Hays?

  You have to get on your, you basically have to get on all fours.

• 24:10John Coogan?

  It's incredibly negative aura and I don't appreciate you sharing it on the show.

• 24:14Jordi Hays?

  I think it's cool.

• 24:14John Coogan?

  It's funny, but yeah, I, I go full send, basically fly out of the car.

• 24:18Jordi Hays?

  Jabroni on X says Zoom is the best anthropic play.

• 24:23John Coogan?

  Yes, yes, yes, we were demanding this.

• 24:25Jordi Hays?

  Zoom likely made a $51 million investment in Anthropic Series C.

• 24:29John Coogan?

  How?

• 24:29Jordi Hays?

  In 2023.

• 24:30John Coogan?

  How?

• 24:31Jordi Hays?

  At a 4.1 billion.

• 24:32John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:33Jordi Hays?

  Valuation. If you're looking at their new 350, there's.

• 24:36John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 24:36Jordi Hays?

  There's something like an 85X, even diluted. Zoom may have a multi-billion dollar.

• 24:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:42Jordi Hays?

  Anthropic position. Tyler Major, uh, I won't, I won't give you too much, uh, flack for it, but obviously the, the most bullish in the room.

• 24:53Tyler?

  Bullish on AI broadly.

• 24:54John Coogan?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 24:56Jordi Hays?

  You, you seem like you'd be happy to own Zoom at a hundred billion dollar valuation, even if they had no business at all and they just held it.

• 25:03Tyler?

  It's just a holdco, yeah, yeah.

• 25:05Jordi Hays?

  Even if they just.

• 25:06John Coogan?

  It's a digital asset treasury, actually.

• 25:07Tyler?

  Yeah. So I, I think the story, this is like a rumor, but basically it was that Anthropic like wanted to just like use Zoom and get like the enterprise.

• 25:14John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 25:14Tyler?

  Plan or whatever, but then they were like.

• 25:16John Coogan?

  No way.

• 25:16Tyler?

  Well, yeah, you can have it, but like, we want to throw in a little something, right?

• 25:19John Coogan?

  This might be fake news.

• 25:21Jordi Hays?

  This seems like fake news, Tyler.

• 25:23Tyler?

  Okay.

• 25:23Jordi Hays?

  Zoom sells, you know, Zoom sells enterprise software, right?

• 25:27Tyler?

  Look, that's what I read.

• 25:27Jordi Hays?

  That's their business.

• 25:28Tyler?

  I can't find the post, but I, I for sure read.

• 25:30Jordi Hays?

  They sell enterprise software and so Anthropic says, hey, we're big Zoom fans here. We want to use Zoom and they're like, no, actually for you, no.

• 25:39John Coogan?

  After the, the crazy COVID pump where everyone got on Zoom, they started adding like crazy features like dictation and workspaces and whiteboarding and stuff, but uh, obviously like the, it was like so overheated that it, it came back down to earth, but uh, now they have a Anthropic position on the balance sheet, which will be fun for them. Slowly and then all at once is Blake Robbins. He says, "Your work tools are now active in Claude, draft Slack messages."

• 26:04Jordi Hays?

  Interactive.

• 26:05John Coogan?

  Or interactive. Draft Slack messages, visualize ideas in Figma and build and see Asana timelines. All of the different tools are coming together in one place. When you see an account like Claude posting about Slack and Figma and Asana, you have to imagine there's a discussion there. It's not open source. So they're chipping away at these and OpenAI has been chipping away at these for a long time. So the race is on to have the most integrations at this point.

• 26:31Jordi Hays?

  Breaking. Anthropic's warning to the world. Anthropic CEO Dario Amade says, "Eminent real danger that superhuman intelligence will cause civilization-level damage absent smart, speedy intervention." Sarah says, "So buy our products."

• 26:50John Coogan?

  This is the problem of dropping like a 20,000-word essay is that like you're going to get clipped out of context.

• 26:55Jordi Hays?

  Tyler, can you make, you should make a version of the new letter with subway surfers that run.

• 27:01John Coogan?

  Oh, true.

• 27:01Jordi Hays?

  Build that as a standalone.

• 27:03John Coogan?

  Yeah, we need a Cloud Labs, Chad IDE for reading.

• 27:07Tyler?

  Claude, summarize this in four words.

• 27:09John Coogan?

  AI good.

• 27:10Jordi Hays?

  Leading Bits has some thoughts on Dario's.

• 27:13John Coogan?

  14 of them specifically. That's a lot of thoughts. There's nothing new here. If you're familiar with the AI safety discussions that have been happening on Twitter. Yes, but it's important for Dario to restate them in a format that can be passed around and formatted and is coherent from start to finish. So the most interesting bit is that his mental model for AI control risk is the risk that would be posed by a country of geniuses in a data center. Interesting. That is interesting. The basic idea is that we should imagine a giant data center, all the models being something between AGI and ASI, trying to coordinate to take over the world or do massive harm. Anyway, I think how seriously you take short-term AI control risk is inversely correlated to how much you think about AI control risk as operating in a system.

• 27:54John Coogan?

  So the systematic view starts and says labs exist in an ecosystem where they need to sell models that will follow human instruction or they have no market. They are also overseen by regulators and guided by public perception. And the desires of their employees and all of this keeps models corrigeable. Great word. And the model landscape will look like. Three to six frontier labs, running millions or billions of rollouts at a time on two to three different models, all on different tasks. So a model takeover requires these millions or billions of rollouts to somehow end up all be coordinating towards some bad aim that somehow the models have autonomously determined.

• 28:31Jordi Hays?

  Something I've been thinking about is, you know, this, this kind of summary and a lot of the, a lot of the dialogue is centered around just like, what are the models doing? Or like a country of geniuses in the data center. But you have to be thinking about this in the context that a country of geniuses in a data center would just recruit millions of humans to join their cause. Like, some people, like when they're thinking about AI risk, it's like, haha dude, just like, turn the computer off.

• 28:57John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 28:57Jordi Hays?

  Like, just unplug it.

• 28:58John Coogan?

  But it's like, what if you're on the side of the computer?

• 29:00Jordi Hays?

  What if there's, you know, a hundred thousand people, or like 10,000 people defending it on top of the data center, being like...

• 29:06John Coogan?

  Yep. Don't, don't unplug the computer.

• 29:07Jordi Hays?

  Don't unplug the computer, right?

• 29:08John Coogan?

  I like the computer.

• 29:09Jordi Hays?

  And so when you look at all, all the chaos of the last week,

• 29:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:14Jordi Hays?

  there's been so many moments where like, a certain image was AI-generated.

• 29:16John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:17Jordi Hays?

  And then it's like, oh, that wasn't a real image at all. Or, or, you know, and it's being shared from all sides. And so at what point, you know, you could have, you know, nefarious, hostile AI that's entire job is just creating

• 29:28John Coogan?

  Chaos.

• 29:29Jordi Hays?

  millions of bot accounts that are just like, sharing whatever narrative is self-serving.

• 29:33John Coogan?

  Yeah. You can't tell.

• 29:34Tyler?

  The, the two kind of scenarios where, where Dario's is about basically, even if we have like, pretty safe models, which like, he thinks we can do with interpretability, whatever. If it gets into the wrong hands, it's like, very bad if it gets into, you know, autocracy. That, that's one of the, the main risks. Where, Eliezer's and a lot of the safety ones are always these like, very sci-fi narratives where you have this like, gray goo. You have these like nano machines that somehow, one day, they just like, kind of, you know, flip, and then it's just kind of over.

• 30:00John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:00Tyler?

  And I, I think it's much more reasonable and like...

• 30:03John Coogan?

  Yeah, nuanced.

• 30:04Tyler?

  Yeah. It, it's much more legible to like, the average person.

• 30:05John Coogan?

  It's tractable, too.

• 30:06Tyler?

  Yeah. And especially, I, I think, a lot of it is, I don't even know if it's really subtext, but he's definitely pointing in the direction of like, we need some government oversight. We need policy. And it seems like, like, you can very easily like, track... Like his ideas on what policy should be from this essay, right? It's a lot about China, a lot about, you know, making sure that individual companies don't like become, you know, as big as governments.

• 30:29John Coogan?

  One interesting wrinkle with this, he did not post it as an X article. He posted it as a link because he wants to signal to everyone like, look, I don't need the million dollars. I don't need the million. I don't need the million. I know I got a banger on my hands, 3.5 million views, 11K likes, obviously lots of discussion all over.

• 30:45Tyler?

  But as an investor, like I want to see my, my lab's CEO be like super hungry for compute, right?

• 30:51John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:52Tyler?

  So I want them to always be grinding to get like extra.

• 30:53John Coogan?

  Oh, so maybe this is bearish. They should have, they should have posted as an article.

• 30:56Tyler?

  If I'm a VC, if I'm an anthropic, I'm like, why did he not post this on X?

• 30:58John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:59Tyler?

  That million dollars could have gone straight into like.

• 31:01John Coogan?

  More GPT. Elon would have for sure given. For sure. His rival. I can definitely see that happening. Thank you for watching. Thank you for watching. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for the TPN newsletter at tbpn.com and have a great rest of your day. We love you. Goodbye.