247. Robert F Kennedy Jr: Donald Trump's Vice President?

Could a member of the Kennedy clan team up with Donald Trump? What does a vice president actually do? How has a brain worm come into the media circus of the 2024 race for the White House? Join Katty Kay and Anthony Scaramucci as they answer all these questions and more on The Rest Is Politics: US. 🌏 Get our exclusive NordVPN deal here ➼ https://nordvpn.com/restispolitics It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! ✅ Instagram: @RestPoliticsUS Twitter: @RestPoliticsUS Email: [email protected] Video Editor: Teo Ayodeji-Ansell Social Producer: Jess Kidson Assistant Producer: Fiona Douglas Producer: Dom Johnson Head of Content: Tom Whiter Exec Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• 0:04Rory Stewart?

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• 1:07Speaker 02

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• 1:31Katty Kay?

  Hello and welcome to The Rest is Politics US with me, Catty Kay.

• 1:35Anthony Scaramucci?

  And me, Anthony Scarabucci.

• 1:37Katty Kay?

  So Anthony, how are you doing? How's your week been?

• 1:39Anthony Scaramucci?

  I'm doing well, Catty. I admire your headset better than mine. This is very bad for my hair, this headset.

• 1:46Katty Kay?

  I tried that the first week and then the whole Princess Leia thing, you know, it never worked for Carrie Fisher. And if it doesn't work for Carrie Fisher, Katty Kay should not try it.

• 1:55Anthony Scaramucci?

  Well, I just want you to know, I am as vain as you if you haven't figured that out yet. Okay, I'm upset about that headset, but we'll talk about it.

• 2:02Katty Kay?

  I'm going to send you my $15 little in-earbuds so that you can get away with that.

• 2:06Anthony Scaramucci?

  Okay.

• 2:07Katty Kay?

  Let's get on with the show. There's a lot to talk about this week. We're going to talk about two things in American politics that I think are pivotal in the election, but haven't really got a lot of traction, certainly around the world. The first thing we're going to look at is Robert F. Kennedy's run for president. We're going to talk about who he really is, why he's running, which candidate he could end up helping. And of course, we have to go into brain worms, which we'll explain later. Then after the break, we're going to look at all things vice presidential and how Donald Trump can't resist turning a very important campaign decision into an episode of The Apprentice. But first, Anthony, I think we've got to start with the trial in New York. We had Stormy

• 2:49Katty Kay?

  Daniels taking the stand. She was cross-examined by the defense. The prosecution put her up there. And she gave some pretty graphic details about the one-night stand she had with the former president. And I bring it up, Anthony, because of course, she's a friend of yours.

• 3:06Anthony Scaramucci?

  Well, I mean, she's not my friend. Listen, I've met with Stormy and I was on the Bill Maher show with her, which was very interesting. And then, of course, we went to the after-party together. And she told my wife that I was a lot shorter than she thought.

• 3:20Katty Kay?

  Ouch.

• 3:20Anthony Scaramucci?

  But she said I was handsome enough to put in her carry-on luggage. Okay, so tears very much did not like that. But I mean, that's fine. But I'm only bringing that up because she's a lot of fun. She's articulate. She's smart. And she is honest. And so her film star career, her being an adult film star, obviously, is going to tarnish some of the things that are coming out of her mouth. But I don't think that what she is saying is false. I think she is telling the truth about her relationship with Donald Trump, telling the truth about what happened. And of course, that's very important for the case. And for our UK listeners to understand this case, it's not that Mr. Trump had sex

• 4:02Anthony Scaramucci?

  with an adult film star. That's not the big deal. The big deal is the election interference. He made a decision

• 4:08Katty Kay?

  Right.

• 4:09Anthony Scaramucci?

  to use money towards this thing from his organization. That would be a direct violation of campaign finance laws in the United States. And it is a form of election interference to do that. So both of those things are felonies. And again, I'm not saying that he's going to go to jail for this sort of stuff. But I do think the prosecution has made the case. Now, I know in the UK, you can't say those sort of things on the air, but you can here in the United States about US criminal cases.

• 4:39Katty Kay?

  Yeah, I mean, it was interesting, wasn't it, how he got a bit of a wrapping off from the judge? And the judge did kind of come down on him hard, I thought, and warned him, look, I don't want to send you to jail for contempt of court for violating the gag order, but I might do so. That's the serious side of it. I'm sorry, but I just can't get to the end of the week without getting Donald Trump in his boxers on a bed out of my brain. I mean, it's like I've had, I need a defense shield there because I didn't need to know that. I didn't need to, and I'm just wondering how many people are feeling like me, especially female voters thinking, ugh, icky.

• 5:08Anthony Scaramucci?

  Okay, so, so he himself, knowing his personality as well as I know him, the fact that you're sickened by that has him uber upset. Okay, I'm just gonna let you know that about him because he hates being mocked, he may, hates being made fun of. And of course, Stormy has also described in detail other aspects about him, which would describe why perhaps he's so hyper masculine, why he has this overbite or this overcompensation. And it could have a lot to do with his physical anatomy. And so I'll, I'll leave it there because I know that this is a a children's friendly podcast, but I just want you to imagine the embarrassment of this guy. And here's the other thing, he thought he was going to get away with this.

• 5:53Anthony Scaramucci?

  And so I think Trump's surprise was, I'm going to run for president. It's a very big publicity stunt for me. I've done so many stupid things in my life that they will creep up on me in the presidency and I won't make it to the presidency. And then low and behold, he's able to get away with everything. There's a whole list of things that he has done that has broken every canon of American politics, presidential politics and presidential candidates.

• 6:21Katty Kay?

  Isn't there something kind of wonderful about the fact that he's done all of that? And the one thing he couldn't get away with was Stormy Daniels and a one night stand. In a conference hotel room and that that's what's coming back to bite him. And I thought it was kind of cool the way the prosecution built her up. To your point about her being smart. They said, look, this woman got a full scholarship to a Texas university and was going to be a vet. She was on her way. She was studying until she got into the film star business, which kind of, I think she's the big feminist icon.

• 6:51Anthony Scaramucci?

  I brought a prop for this show, okay? Because I know we do YouTube as well. And so I want to just show you this. Can you see this?

• 6:57Katty Kay?

  Yep.

• 6:57Anthony Scaramucci?

  That is a picture of me.

• 6:58Katty Kay?

  Two handsome men.

• 6:59Anthony Scaramucci?

  Yeah, well, I don't know. The, the characters are not that handsome, but that's Don Corleone as Trump. Me as Tom Hagen. That was going to be the cover of the New York Magazine, The Week I Got Fired. Okay, so forget about the, the Italian racism of the cover. It doesn't really bother me. But the point is, he's a mafia don. He sees himself as a mafia don. And the mistake that Mr. Trump made is that he didn't take care of his made guys. Okay, and so Michael Cohen was one of his made guys and he never took care of him and he left him hanging. And so what did Michael Cohen do to him? Michael Cohen did to him the same thing that Sammy Gravano did to John Gotti. He went after him in the court system. He exposed him.

• 7:43Anthony Scaramucci?

  And if he's guilty here, which he likely will be guilty, this will be a problem for Mr. Trump because he will be running for president. They're not going to put him in jail, Caddy, but he'll be running for president with an ankle bracelet on and he'll be stuck at Mar-a-Lago. And people will decry that and they'll say that that's lawfare, meaning the Biden administration has used the law to hurt the other candidate. But the truth of the matter is, if you understand the American political system, this is a New York state issue and this is a city issue. The prosecutor coming after Mr. Trump has really nothing to do with the Biden administration.

• 8:18Katty Kay?

  Yeah, I mean, let's, look, we have to leave this to play out. It's going to be another two to four weeks. We reckon this trial is going to run and it's going to be that jury of 12 of Donald Trump's peers who are going to decide and only one member of that jury has to decide that he's not guilty. And. Donald Trump gets acquitted. It's a hung jury.

• 8:37Anthony Scaramucci?

  Okay, so just one thought on that, if you don't mind me saying this, this is from my law school experience, working with a lot of lawyers. Everyone thinks, well, you got one juror in there, they're probably a MAGA person, deep in the Trump cult, and no matter what is said, is gonna let Trump-

• 8:54Katty Kay?

  Or they just decide that the evidence isn't there, that he, you know, that he personally knew that these checks were going.

• 9:00Anthony Scaramucci?

  I'll tell you, that's not how it works inside those juries, because there's a group think that overtakes the jury, and if there are 11 people pushing for the guilty verdict, they will be able to convince that one person. So this will be a nasty thing that happens, and we'll watch it unfold. But the learning lesson here, for all of these people listening to us, Katty, you gotta protect the people that are working with you, whether you like them or not. And Mr. Trump has an asymmetric view of loyalty. He's paying the price for it right now in that court.

• 9:31Katty Kay?

  Okay, so that's interesting, because my learning lesson is, don't have a one-night stand with somebody else when your wife has just had a baby.

• 9:38Anthony Scaramucci?

  And that's why you and I make good podcast partners. See that? Do you see how you're adding value in a way that I couldn't?

• 9:44Katty Kay?

  Right. What we're actually gonna talk about is the third-party candidate, RFK Junior, Robert Kennedy Junior, who is also running for President of the United States. I think a lot of viewers around the world are very aware of Joe Biden and Donald Trump. They may not actually know that there are actually two or three other candidates running. The only one of those who's actually developing traction is Robert Kennedy Junior. He is the son of Bobby Kennedy, who of course was assassinated in 1968, and he is the nephew of John Kennedy, who was President of the United States, who was also assassinated in 1963. So he has this kind of lineage. If you think about the Kennedys, they are the Windsors of American politics. I think that's, that's fair, right, Anthony? I mean,

• 10:28Katty Kay?

  I think that's a fair description of the Kennedys. There just isn't a bigger democratic name. Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, yeah. But they don't have that storied history that the Kennedys do. And so in comes RFK Junior, running as an independent candidate in this race.

• 10:45Anthony Scaramucci?

  Well, you know the British aristocracy better than me, but I can tell you this about- The United States, and I'm a blue collar kid. People love aristocracy. You could pretend otherwise. The United States tries to be this flat, meritocratic system. But there's a love affair in the United States for families like the Kennedys. Now, maybe the Kennedy shine has sort of been rubbed off a little bit over the last 20 years. But I'll take you back to the 60s and 70s, an era that I frankly grew up in where people like my parents, and again, I got raised Roman Catholic. And so Jack Kennedy was the first Catholic president of the United States.

• 11:25Katty Kay?

  They must have loved him.

• 11:26Anthony Scaramucci?

  And there were pictures of him everywhere in our house. And obviously, you know, I wasn't alive at the time, but my mother told me that the parish priest literally told people, go out and vote for John Kennedy for president because this is the opportunity for the Catholics to have their first president. Of course, Joe Biden is the second Roman Catholic president. But the thing about the Kennedy family, though, is they have been mired in tragedy. And so there's often a saying in Greek tragedy that the sins of the father get passed on generationally. And of course, Joe Kennedy was a bootlegger. He was involved with the mafia. He was a stock swindler. He made a fortune doing that.

• 12:07Anthony Scaramucci?

  And for for those of us that really know our British history, he was the UK ambassador for a time, appointed by Franklin Roosevelt. And he was an appeaser. He was a sympathizer with the Nazis and he was well and roundly disliked by the UK government. And so he had to have separation from his younger children who wanted to be in politics because Mr. Churchill obviously didn't like him. And Jack Kennedy had to position himself away from his dad. Why am I bringing all this up? Is that this family is attached to the American political scene.

• 12:43Anthony Scaramucci?

  For the last 80 years, Katty, and Robert Kennedy is representing the family, even though the family, including his siblings, have not endorsed him. Moreover, they've all gone to the White House. The Kennedy family, this royal Windsor-like family that you're describing, has gone to the White House and taken pictures with Joe Biden and have endorsed Joe Biden. This would also include Jack Kennedy's last surviving child, Caroline Kennedy.

• 13:11Katty Kay?

  I think there are some members of the family, actually, that are supporting him, but the main ones, you're right.

• 13:16Anthony Scaramucci?

  The main ones.

• 13:16Katty Kay?

  The main ones are, and I think, just to explain to listeners, why he's drawn the ire of so many of his own family members, as well, of course, of Democrats. He's a controversial figure. His, basically, if you look at his campaign platform, he's running on sort of two main things. One is that the current system, which is dominated by two parties, no longer represents lots of people, and so you've got millions of Americans who feel homeless. The other is this kind of, is anti-COVID response, anti-COVID vaccine. That's, if you, if you just say one thing about Robert Kennedy that people know, it's that he's anti-vax, right? I mean, that's kind of what he's running on.

• 13:59Katty Kay?

  And he's this outspoken, anti-establishment figure, and it's, it's that anti-vax side of him that his family don't like, and the fact that he risks toppling Joe Biden just by the fact that he is running as an independent candidate. Now, historically, independent candidates, we know this, they haven't had much traction. We spoke about this last week. The system costs so much fricking money that it's almost impossible to run if you don't have a big party backing you. But Kennedy's argument this time around, and the reason he's running as an independent, is that so many people are unhappy with the choices that they have of Joe Biden and Donald Trump,

• 14:41Katty Kay?

  that this year, there is an opportunity for somebody to run as an independent candidate who gives them somebody else. So now we have this 70-year-old guy, but boom, news flash, because he runs, and just this week, we discover that the guy has... A dead worm in his brain. He wasn't hearing things. He had memory loss, all sorts of problems, neurological problems. He went to a doctor and the doctor said, you've got, it's a tumor. His uncle had had a tumor, recently died of a tumor. So they said, you've got to fly down and have emergency surgery. Just as he's about to get on the plane to fly down to have emergency surgery, another doctor rings him up and says, actually, you know what? We don't think this is a tumor. This memory loss that you've been having, the brain fog

• 15:26Katty Kay?

  that you've been having, we look at the scan and we think that it's a worm. It's a parasite in your brain. And this worm has died. And apparently, when worms die in your brain, Anthony, it's never very nice. Because they start eating away at the cell. I can't believe I'm really saying this. We've gone from sex to brain worms. Anyway, they start eating away at the cells. You can't remember stuff. So Bobby Kennedy thinks, oh, great. I don't have to have brain surgery. It's not a tumor. And this, for some reason, all of this gets into his divorced deposition from a decade ago. And it pops up this story yesterday in the New York Times. And now this brain worm and what impact it may have on Bobby

• 16:09Katty Kay?

  Kennedy. Because the only thing we know is that Bobby Kennedy says he's fine. He says that those memory losses and that brain fog, that was 10 years ago. We don't know that's true. We haven't seen the medical records. So we don't know whether actually, this brain worm is going to have much more of an impact on his campaign. Could it be that voters look at Bobby Kennedy now and they don't see this strapping, you know, model of masculinity? They see a guy who's got a dead parasite in his brain.

• 16:36Anthony Scaramucci?

  Well, I just want to add one thing. And I think that the notion of brain worms and sex with Donald Trump, I think they're very

• 16:44Katty Kay?

  Kind of in the same, yeah.

• 16:45Anthony Scaramucci?

  I do. I think they're very similar.

• 16:46Katty Kay?

  I see it.

• 16:46Anthony Scaramucci?

  Could somebody please pass me the vomit bag after I just said that? And since our producers have asked if we ever met him, again, I'm bringing props. That's me and Bobby, okay, at the Bitcoin conference last year. And I spent an hour with Bobby to talk about his campaign. And, and I was there for his speech. And he's a charismatic guy and he's a thoughtful guy. And there's a lot of things that he says has have a lot of truth to them. But you and I both know American politics well enough that there's no chance in hell he's going to get elected to the American presidency. So why is he doing this? And who is he going to damage the most? And since I can't leave that worm out there hanging, I just want to point this out that

• 17:30Anthony Scaramucci?

  his father was the most vicious of vicious campaign managers. Bobby Kennedy Jr. Was Jack Kennedy's campaign manager and he was dropping bombs on people left and right. But this is a self detonation bomb that Bobby Kennedy could come out there and tell us that he's got a dead worm living inside of his brain. Now, I may have a dead worm living inside my brain, Katty, but I'm just going to, you know, I'm not going to let you know about it.

• 17:59Katty Kay?

  Anyway, we will get more on this worm because actually this worm could be pertinent to the November election.

• 18:05Anthony Scaramucci?

  But who does he hurt more?

• 18:06Katty Kay?

  Well, that's, I think that's a really good question. The Biden campaign has been the campaign that has been most worried about Bobby Kennedy, right? They have spent a lot of money on lawyers trying to prevent Bobby Kennedy to get onto the ballot. So, quick explanation, in order to run as a candidate, Bobby Kennedy's name literally has to be printed on those ballot papers in as many states as possible to give him a chance of winning those states. At the moment, he's only on the ballot in three states. He says he could be on 10 states overnight. He just, you know, hasn't decided to do whatever it takes to get there. You get on the ballot by getting a ton of people to make signatures, right?

• 18:49Katty Kay?

  Thousands of signatures and each state has different rules. It's super complicated. It's very expensive. You have to get these thousands of signatures in order to get on the ballot. Or you could do what he did in Michigan, which was you find an existing party, which is on the ballot already, an independent party. In Michigan, it's the Natural Law Party, which I think has a membership of about four. And they have suddenly decided to make Bobby Kennedy their candidate. So he's on the ballot in Michigan, which is why this is all started to be important. He got onto the ballot in Michigan in April, which is when the Biden campaign suddenly woke up and thought, oh, Christ, this guy could actually be a problem for us because Michigan is a swing state. We've spoken about that. And if Bobby Kennedy takes 10% of the vote in Michigan.

• 19:34Katty Kay?

  In a very tight race, that could hurt us. Now, the Biden campaign, and I'll let you talk about the Trump campaign in a second, but the Biden campaign knows that traditionally, these third party candidates have hurt Democrats more than they've hurt Republicans. So Ralph Nader hurt Al Gore in 2000, Jill Stein, the Green candidate, hurt Hillary Clinton in 2016. Stein got 30,000 votes in Wisconsin, which potentially lost Hillary Clinton that state. She may even have lost Hillary Clinton the election in 2016. You could make that argument, which is why Bobby Kennedy's campaign is such a big deal. And the Biden campaign knows that Trump has a high floor. There are lots of people that really love Donald Trump. They're not going to leave him for some third party candidate. But Joe Biden's

• 20:17Katty Kay?

  supporters, they're a little bit more squishy. And a candidate comes along with the name Kennedy, who has some issues that appeal to Democrats. He's pro-choice, he's pro-union. It's possible the Biden campaign realizes that those squishy Democrats could go and pull the lever for Bobby Kennedy. So that's, that's the case for the Biden campaign. What do you reckon about the Trump campaign? Where are they worried?

• 20:40Anthony Scaramucci?

  I want to, I just want to say a few things. And again, just to remind everybody listening in, in American politics, follow the money. And the money for the Bobby Kennedy campaign is coming from conservative Republicans that are trying to help Trump. You will find Steve Bannon in pictures with Bobby Kennedy. Moreover, Jill Stein, who you'll remember, was a Green Party candidate in 2016. She was backed by arch-right conservatives, even though she's a quote unquote Green Party member. So follow the money. There's also disinformation out there, I believe, where people are saying, well, Bobby Kennedy hurts Trump more than he hurts Biden. The Biden people certainly don't feel that way. And

• 21:24Anthony Scaramucci?

  obviously, these right wing conservatives that are funding Bobby Kennedy don't feel that way. And so the real question is, what happens here? Bobby Kennedy stay in the race? How does this sort itself out? Now, I will say this to you-

• 21:36Katty Kay?

  Anthony, do you think there's any chance that- Just recently, the Trump campaign is starting also to think that Kennedy could be a problem for them. I'm just noticing how, you know, Trump is being a little bit more vicious about Kennedy. He's calling him Junior. He's saying that he's a Democratic plant. He's sort of putting out Truth Socials about him a little bit more. And I wonder whether they have any internal polling that is suggesting that he could be something of a threat to them.

• 22:03Anthony Scaramucci?

  So both sides may be worried about him. But again, follow the money. The right wing is the one supporting Bobby Kennedy. And you know this, I still talk to a lot of Trump people and a lot of Trump insiders. When asked the following question, would Donald Trump accept Bobby Kennedy Jr. as a vice presidential candidate? The answer to that question was yes. And then the follow up question is, well, why? And the answer to that question is, Mr. Trump wants to win. He wants to win at all costs. He wants to put a hurt on the liberal elite and all of his haters. Nothing will make him happier than just to win. He probably doesn't want to govern as much as he wants to win, caddy.

• 22:43Anthony Scaramucci?

  And so I believe it is still on the table, despite the rhetoric and the rabble rousing, it is still on the table that Bobby Kennedy could be the vice presidential candidate for Donald Trump. And by the way, if that were to happen, is really bad news for the Biden campaign, because one thing that Kennedy is doing is he's attracting a lot of young people to his campaign. Now, politics being politics, maybe the egos are too big. But I'll just remind people about their American history. In 1980, George Herbert Walker Bush said that Ronald Reagan's economic plan was voodoo economics. And everyone roundly criticized George Bush for saying that. Reagan went after him. But at the convention, he made

• 23:28Anthony Scaramucci?

  George Bush his vice presidential candidate to unite the party. Mr. Trump has one other thing going on, if you don't mind me adding this, is that he can't get the Nikki Haley voters. In Indianapolis, 21% of them, she's not on the ballot. 21% of them voted for her. In Pennsylvania, Governor Haley not on the ballot, or Ambassador Haley not on the ballot, 17%. ...of the people voted for her and you and I both know in American politics, you need the crossover voter. Barack Obama got that from Hillary Clinton in 08. Hillary did not get that from Bernie Sanders in 16. She lost the election. So Trump is sitting there knowing that a good 15 to 20% of old school Republicans

• 24:08Anthony Scaramucci?

  may hive off from him. And so don't be counting out a marriage, a political marriage between Bobby Kennedy and Donald Trump.

• 24:16Katty Kay?

  Well, that would be seismic. By the way, you should clearly be a broadcaster, Anthony, because that was the perfect segue into the second half of our show. After the break, we're going to talk more about the vice presidential pick because I tell you, a Trump Kennedy ticket would be two massive alpha males. I have not met Bobby Kennedy. A very good friend of mine dated him for a while and there is nothing shy in retiring about Bobby Kennedy. He does not like taking second place to anybody. So I wonder how that would shake out. We're going to talk more about the vice presidential pick after the break.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  So good, so good, so good. Nordstrom Rack is celebrating 125 years of Nordstrom with 125 of the best deals, up to 65% off in stores and online. We're talking incredible savings on brands you love like Vince, Sam Edelman, Rag & Bone, All Saints and more. They're only here while supplies last. So shop today. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first and more. Plus buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you Rack.

• 25:23Katty Kay?

  Welcome back to The Rest Is Politics US with me, Katty Kay.

• 25:27Anthony Scaramucci?

  And me, Anthony Scaramucci.

• 25:28Katty Kay?

  Anthony, if you were running for president of the United States, who would you pick as your vice presidential running mate?

• 25:34Anthony Scaramucci?

  Okay, so my immediate and very smart response is Katty Kay. However-

• 25:39Katty Kay?

  That is just too easy.

• 25:40Anthony Scaramucci?

  Yeah, but however, Katty Kay can't. She can't run because she wasn't born in the United States. And so just a reminder to everybody, you have to be qualified to be the American president, he or she. Has to be born here in the United States. So I think of all of the choices that Mr. Trump has, my opinion, the one he likes the most is Ben Carson. However, I do not think Ben Carson is going to be selected.

• 26:07Katty Kay?

  I was on air with Ben Carson during the first Trump administration. He is the only person who during an interview has told me that I should have my microphone turned off because he didn't like what I was saying. So I was up on Morning Joe and it was about one of the, it was one of these cases of the women who are suing him for sexual harassment. And he said, turn Caddy's microphone off, turn it off, turn it off now. I'm not going to be on the show anymore unless you turn Caddy Kay's microphone off. Anyway, Joe Scarborough, who's cred, didn't, but that was my five minutes of fame with Ben Carson. He tried to shut me up.

• 26:35Anthony Scaramucci?

  I, I could tell it's really upset you, Ms. Teflon. Okay, of course, you just rolled that roll right off of your back.

• 26:41Katty Kay?

  Loved it.

• 26:42Anthony Scaramucci?

  But of course you did. I think, I think the, I think the problem that Mr. Trump has is he will not pick somebody that will overshadow him in any way. So that knocks out people like Nikki Haley, it knocks out DeSantis. Some people are saying Tim Scott. I predict he will not pick Tim Scott because Tim Scott started out very close to Governor Romney. Tim Scott was in Park City, Utah at the Romney annual political event before he ran for the presidency. I think he sickened the Romney camp of Republicans by having this MAGA, this Make America Great Again, Donald Trump transformation. And so when you go down the list, he likes Carson the best because Carson will stay in the background.

• 27:27Anthony Scaramucci?

  Carson will make sure, and this is very true about a Donald Trump presidency, there's one spotlight, it's a one man's show, only one person can get the credit. And so he wants to pick somebody like that. However, because he's a good politician, whether we like it or not, Mr. Trump has very good political instincts. I think he's going to go with a, a white male. It'll either be Doug Burgman or it'll be somebody like J.D. Vance. Those are my opinion. It will not be Tucker Carlson, too big of a personality for Donald Trump. And I'm still out there, and I'd love to see the odds on this, I'm still out there with the RFK Junior possibility. It makes a lot of news and it guarantees him in his mind a victory.

• 28:11Katty Kay?

  It's interesting, the conventional wisdom. For Donald Trump, when it comes to his VP pick is that he either needs to pick a woman in order to get those suburban winning voters.

• 28:21Anthony Scaramucci?

  Stop right there, then you don't think like Donald Trump. Okay, he doesn't, in his mind, need to pick a woman. Remember, he's anti-woke, he's not about identity politics. The media says that because the media likes the identity politics. And by the way, it's the identity politics has gotten Joe Biden into trouble because he was box ticking with the selection of Kamala Harris. And we'll get into the problems that Kamala Harris is causing his campaign right now.

• 28:46Katty Kay?

  Okay, so the other one is, if he doesn't pick a woman, then he needs to pick a black man, because this is what I've heard from the Trump campaign, that they do have some interest in, that because Donald Trump is polling well with black men, picking a black man could help him there, which is what the argument is for somebody like Tim Scott, or Ben Carson, of course, the former cabinet member who's a neurosurgeon, who's African American. I mean, watch that Mar-a-Lago pageant.

• 29:12Anthony Scaramucci?

  Let me explain the full-on narcissism, so people can understand this. If you went into a meeting with Donald Trump, and you said, "Mr. Trump, you need to pick a black man, and here are the reasons why. You've got better voting with black men, and if you pick a black man, it's going to really help you." He will definitely not pick the black man. And let me explain why, because he's a full-on, total, complete narcissist, okay? Katty, I'm winning because I'm Donald Trump. I am not winning because I selected a black man. I'm not winning because I selected, for identification purposes, a woman. I am winning because I am Donald Trump. So, I'm picking somebody that is meaningless, so that this win will be my win, and nobody

• 29:57Anthony Scaramucci?

  can give anybody else credit for it. This is what upset him so much about the whole Russian collusion case, the notion that the Russians were helping him. He felt that the media wasn't giving him enough credit for his electoral success.

• 30:09Katty Kay?

  What about the idea that he has to pick somebody? I mean, normally, a- Normal presidential candidate is also who's only got one term left, which Donald Trump does. He can only be president for four more years if he wins. At some point in that four years, he effectively is handing over the baton to whoever is his vice president, who de facto becomes the frontrunner in the Republican Party for the 2028 election. Do you think that's the kind of consideration that is, and I'm asking this ever so slightly tongue in cheek, do you think that is the kind of consideration that is weighing on Donald Trump's mind, the future of the Republican Party and the leadership?

• 30:46Anthony Scaramucci?

  So if that were weighing on his mind, which I believe it isn't, he's going to go with Donald Trump Jr. And you and I know that he probably won't go with Donald Trump Jr., but he will not do whatever any pundit predicts that he will do. And I just want to remind people, there was a woman, I can't remember her name, but she was on The Apprentice with him. And she was on for the first two seasons and she was getting a lot of press. She did a few magazine covers. She even hired a speaking agency to book speaking engagements for her. And she worked at the Trump Organization. He fired her. Boom, you're fired. And he replaced her with Ivanka Trump. He does not like sharing the spotlight with anybody.

• 31:30Anthony Scaramucci?

  And since it's only about him, and you, me, the rest of this 7.7 billion group of people are just periphery for him. And remember, Katty and all listeners listening in, he doesn't care. You're an object in his field of vision. Somebody says to me, Donald Trump is a racist. I laugh. He's not a racist. You know, if you're a KKK member, you don't walk up to a black car and kick it. You're an object in Mr. Trump's field of vision. And so whoever is his vice president, especially someone that doesn't have his DNA, there's just another appendage, an object in his field of vision. So when you go down a list, my prediction is it's going to be a white male. Okay. Because that will disavow the identity politics.

• 32:15Anthony Scaramucci?

  And it'll speak to him winning without selecting somebody that could potentially help him. And I like the J D Vance's of the world in that situation, because I think he thinks he could control J D Vance. He's young enough in his mind to control him.

• 32:29Katty Kay?

  Yeah, the senator from Ohio.

• 32:31Anthony Scaramucci?

  It won't be Mike Pence, though. Did you know that? I just thought I would give you the news flash. It won't be Mike Pence.

• 32:36Katty Kay?

  And I was wondering, I suspect it won't be Anthony Scaramucci either, but we're trying to check the odds on that.

• 32:41Anthony Scaramucci?

  No, but if it is Anthony Scaramucci, check me for brain worms, Katty. They get me, get me right in for the brain scan. Okay?

• 32:48Katty Kay?

  We'll, we'll schedule the scan for you.

• 32:49Anthony Scaramucci?

  All right, thank you.

• 32:50Katty Kay?

  And possibly for Donald Trump, too, because he's no fan of yours either. So that would suggest something gone seriously awry. I did think the pageantry down in Mar-a-Lago was just fascinating. We didn't see it. We didn't have cameras there. But last weekend, Donald Trump got a bunch of these names of people who are vice presidential possibilities down to Mar-a-Lago. And he basically got them on a stage from the reporting and called them to kind of perform like, you know, dogs at the Westminster Dog Show. They were there to try and, you know,

• 33:20Anthony Scaramucci?

  Of course.

• 33:21Katty Kay?

  show why they would be a jump through hoops for him. And Donald Trump gave, you know, nice things and said nice things about each of them. But he also couldn't resist doing little digs. So J D Vance, the Republican senator from Ohio, who, who may be one of the frontrunners, Trump said about him that he, what did he say? He said he was a great guy and it was a great honor. But though, then he said, he wasn't a supporter of mine at the very beginning.

• 33:45Anthony Scaramucci?

  He always mentions stuff. It always bothers him.

• 33:47Katty Kay?

  He was saying things like, the guy's a total disaster. Anyways, I got to know him a little bit. As a non-politician, he's become one of the great senators. But it's so like Trump to say, he's great and I'm, you know, I've got him down here because I'm considering him, but to have a little dig at the same time. Even Tim Scott, Trump said about Tim Scott, that he was a good candidate and unbelievable surrogate, and then couldn't resist adding, people thought he was a little dull. I mean, how do you have somebody up on the stage who you're considering to be your vice presidential candidate, but you treat them like a contestant in the Apprentice?

• 34:19Anthony Scaramucci?

  But that's, that's him. And, and by the way, I just point out, they are auditioning like in The Apprentice. So they go on Fox News, or they go on a Sunday morning show like Tim Scott. And if the correspondent says, will you accept the election? They won't answer the question. So he has sworn to the Constitution of the United States. Which has endowed the country with a peaceful transfer of power since George Washington. And yet, Mr. Senator Tim Scott will look into the camera and not answer the question if he'll accept the results of an election because he knows that would knock him out of the candidacy position. So it's a revolting thing, actually.

• 35:02Anthony Scaramucci?

  Okay, these people are super spineless, probably don't have time in this podcast to talk about Mike Johnson, but he's ticking up in my mind.

• 35:09Katty Kay?

  We'll do him another day.

• 35:10Anthony Scaramucci?

  Yeah, we'll do him another day, but I think we've got to get to Kamala. So I just want to put two cents in on Senator Harris. Another person that I've I've met, I think this is another important crazy story, but I was on an AIPAC trip with her and her husband Doug in November of 2017 to Israel. And so we were in the King David Hotel together and the professional photographer that was hired for the trip wanted to take a picture with me and Kamala Harris. And Kamala Harris said, and I quote, "Keep that camera away from me and Mooch. I don't want to ruin my political career taking a picture with him." And so I ran into her after she was nominated for Vice President. I said, "You're not taking a picture of me was good judgment on your part."

• 35:53Anthony Scaramucci?

  So I like her and I know that's something people will be a gas stack because I'm a longtime Republican. She's way smarter than people give her credit for, but she never got the opportunity in that administration to shine. And when she did get the opportunity, she flubbed a little bit. And so she has a very negative or anti-approval rating, however you would say it, Katty. But here's the thing I would say about her. She would surprise people on the upside of if they got to know her better. That's my opinion.

• 36:26Katty Kay?

  I completely agree.

• 36:27Anthony Scaramucci?

  That is my opinion of her. And so we'll have to see what happens.

• 36:30Katty Kay?

  What you're saying is everything that I've heard about Kamala Harris too. And in my own interactions, I've met her a couple of times, once out in California, a couple of times on TV sets. And I've always found her in person in small groups to be warm and smart and impressive. And it's not something that comes across when she's in big groups. She doesn't read. Auto cue or teleprompter very well. And so when she's giving those big set piece speeches, it doesn't sound great. I have a friend actually, who is a florist who does the flowers at the vice presidential mansion. And she says that Kamala Harris comes in, and she notices this kind of thing. She says Kamala Harris comes in whenever she's there doing the flowers, and she thanks every single person, including the driver, who turns up

• 37:14Katty Kay?

  with the flowers. She has a kind of kind, warm heart in that way, but it doesn't come across in public. And there is, you know, the campaign, they've always kind of grumbled I, in my conversations with them, that the White House didn't set her up for success at the beginning. But here's what I wanted to talk about. Here are you and I, talking about Kamala Harris, saying these things about her. She's smart. She comes across as warm. She's not great on the stump. What I don't understand, and maybe you can explain this, is the level of vitriol against her. When you talk to people on the kind of MAGA side, or the right of American politics, they hate. They've described her to me as a danger to the country. This woman has done nothing. The vice president doesn't do anything.

• 37:55Anthony Scaramucci?

  Let me ask you a question.

• 37:56Katty Kay?

  How can she be a danger to the country? She hasn't done very much.

• 37:58Anthony Scaramucci?

  You're a modern day Totokev, okay? Let me, you've been living here for 25 years.

• 38:03Katty Kay?

  No wonder you were the right person to do this podcast with.

• 38:05Anthony Scaramucci?

  Let me ask you this question, okay? Is this a sexist country?

• 38:09Katty Kay?

  Yeah, I think, I think it's hard for women in politics.

• 38:12Anthony Scaramucci?

  You're qualifying, you're qualifying, qualifying. It's a yes or no question. Is this a sexist country? And your body language, for those people listening in, you've already given away the answer. So just, let's go. Is it a sexist country?

• 38:26Katty Kay?

  Yes.

• 38:27Anthony Scaramucci?

  Yes, it's a sexist country. Okay. If you're a anti-woke person, and you're against identity politics, or you're somebody like Elon Musk on now what's called X, saying that you don't want to black pile it, because they may have gotten into the cockpit for their identity as opposed to their competence. Now you have a black woman.

• 38:49Anthony Scaramucci?

  Who's in the role of the vice president? Can you now understand the hatred from the hard right?

• 38:54Katty Kay?

  I guess I was just hoping it was something more than that because that seems so obvious that that's what it is. It's depressing.

• 39:00Anthony Scaramucci?

  That's what it is, but it's also unfair to her. Okay. And I think this is the, I think this is the point that Mark Cuban is making. Okay. If you're an extremely competent person, and I will say this because it's harder for certain groups in our society to rise. For Kamala Harris to get to the seat of the prosecutor in California, to get to the seat of the Senate in California, and then to successfully get through the selection criteria to be vice president. And the question is, is she competent enough to hold those positions? Somebody on the hard right would say, no, she got those positions because she's a black woman. Okay. And therefore they despise her. But somebody really understands this stuff and having gone from a blue collar family

• 39:45Anthony Scaramucci?

  to Harvard Law School, and trust me, there's no affirmative action box for Italian Americans in this country, as you know, Katty, to do that, you know how hard it is. So what I would say about Kamala Harris, she needs more than the benefit of the doubt. And it would be well served for the Biden campaign to get her out there more and to hear those stories like the one you said about the florist.

• 40:07Katty Kay?

  Yeah, which is a nice story, right? And they are getting her out. They're sending her out around abortion clinics. And I think she's doing a pretty good job there, it seems, and around colleges where actually young people seem to like her more. Anyway, I think she's been given a bit of an unfair rap and I, just to the degree that the way when I hear people describe her as a danger to the country, and I just look and think, well, what's this woman actually done? I mean, if anything, vice presidents don't do anything. And so how they could be a danger to the country? I think we should just like end before we go quickly saying, you know, does any of this really matter? This whole apprentice showdown in Mar-a-Lago? Does the VP pick matter? And you know, the conventional wisdom is no VPics don't make much of a difference.

• 40:49Katty Kay?

  But maybe this time around with two elderly candidates. And I would say that, you know, there have been vice presidential candidates in recent history, Sarah Palin didn't do any favors for John McCain. So I think they still have to be taken pretty seriously.

• 41:04Anthony Scaramucci?

  Well, Trump would take the the opposite view of that. It doesn't matter. It's all about me. I just got to pick somebody to get him out of the way. And again, I say he because I know Trump's personality, it'll likely be a he. And then the last point I want to make on this topic is that the wild card is Bobby Kennedy. Mr. Trump wants to win, and so don't leave him out of the equation. Now, we've got a bunch of pranksters and jokers in our control room, Katty, and they're suggesting that my pick is Steve Bannon. Okay, so let me just state for the record, if Steve Bannon were the vice presidential pick, I'll be living in an igloo in Antarctica with the Penguins, Katty, because I get along with Penguins.

• 41:46Anthony Scaramucci?

  And that's one of the continents where I think I will be well received. Okay, so I look forward to being the ambassador.

• 41:52Katty Kay?

  You're such a quiet and retiring kind of guy, Anthony.

• 41:54Anthony Scaramucci?

  I look forward to being the ambassador of Antarctica.

• 41:56Katty Kay?

  A bit like Rory, you could be off on a 10 day silent retreat, and I could see that happening. Okay, there is just time, however, because it goes down so well with you for a little pop quiz.

• 42:07Anthony Scaramucci?

  Uh oh.

• 42:07Katty Kay?

  I know you're going to be excited about this.

• 42:09Anthony Scaramucci?

  Oh, my God. Go ahead.

• 42:10Katty Kay?

  Actually, you know, this is actually Tony Pastor of the EP sent this in, and I took me a while to get the answer to this. But Tony wrote in, which was the presidential campaign when one of the parties put out a massive advertising campaign saying, one in three vice presidents has to take office as a big scare tactic because the voters had no confidence in the chosen running mate? It's actually one in five was the actual ad, Tony. Sorry to correct you there, but it took me a while. I dug around and I couldn't find it, but I finally emailed Michael Beschloss, the presidential historian, and I said, help me out here. So what is it? Which was the which was the campaign where one of the candidates ran an ad against the VP candidate?

• 42:50Anthony Scaramucci?

  I mean, the obvious one is Sarah Palin, but I'm going to say not that one. So it's not that one. Give me one more second. I'm going to very flippantly say it was, I don't know.

• 43:03Anthony Scaramucci?

  Bob, the Bob Dole situation with Jack Kemp?

• 43:05Katty Kay?

  My instinct was Sarah Palin as well. It was actually nice guy Michael Dukakis.

• 43:11Anthony Scaramucci?

  No kidding.

• 43:12Katty Kay?

  In the 1988 campaign against George Herbert Walker Bush.

• 43:17Anthony Scaramucci?

  But he had Lloyd Benson.

• 43:18Katty Kay?

  He had Dan Quayle.

• 43:20Anthony Scaramucci?

  Oh, Dan Quayle. I got you. Oh, wow.

• 43:22Katty Kay?

  So Dukakis ran an ad against Dan Quayle, who was 40 years old, and he was trying to say that Dan Quayle was too young and inexperienced to be vice president. And he ran this rather kind of moody, black and white ad saying, one in five vice presidents has had to rise to the duties of commander in chief. So we thank Tony Pastor and Michael Beschloss.

• 43:43Anthony Scaramucci?

  I'm 0 for 2 on the podcast quizzes. It's fine. My ego's still intact. I just want everybody to know that.

• 43:49Katty Kay?

  I live to see the day when Anthony Scaramucci's ego is not still intact.

• 43:54Anthony Scaramucci?

  Well, it was it. It was a little dented by the White House firing. I have to confess that a little bit for a moment.

• 44:00Katty Kay?

  We will leave it there. That's all we have time for this week. We'll see you all next week.

• 44:03Anthony Scaramucci?

  It's great to be with you as always, Katty. We'll see you guys next week on The Restless Politics US.

• 44:24Speaker 05

  The Great Game, Strategic Struggle Between Britain and Russia.

• 44:32Speaker 06

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