#346: James Cameron and Suzy Amis Cameron — How to Think Big, Start Small, and Change the World

"Hope is not a strategy. Luck is not a factor. Fear is not an option." — James Cameron James Cameron (@jimcameron https://twitter.com/jimcameron) is a filmmaker and deep sea explorer. He is writer, director and producer of The Terminator https://www.amazon.com/Terminator-Arnold-Schwarzenegger/dp/B00153ZC8Q/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1541994886&sr=8-1&keywords=The+Terminator&linkCode=ll1&tag=offsitoftimfe-20&linkId=1d60f40390305e74ec3070f054624081&language=en_US, Aliens https://www.amazon.com/Aliens-Sigourney-Weaver/dp/B001609SQA/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1541994913&sr=8-1&keywords=Aliens&linkCode=ll1&tag=offsitoftimfe-20&linkId=ee505838d56326606ec0df373da87b52&language=en_US, The Abyss https://www.amazon.com/Abyss-Ed-Harris/dp/B01D8O12O2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1541994929&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Abyss&linkCode=ll1&tag=offsitoftimfe-20&linkId=02d67a5ca5d0fc12d6878faa960ad9bb&language=en_US, Terminator 2 https://www.amazon.com/Terminator-2-Judgment-Arnold-Schwarzenegger/dp/B07G8H4821/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1541994949&sr=8-1&keywords=Terminator+2&linkCode=ll1&tag=offsitoftimfe-20&linkId=1a1775fe48e8807e61e5ed8287c7abe0&language=en_US, True Lies https://www.amazon.com/True-Lies-Arnold-Schwarzenegger/dp/B01A7J8JGU/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1541994965&sr=1-1&keywords=True+Lies&linkCode=ll1&tag=offsitoftimfe-20&linkId=d014bd798b993b7f922ca34717feca8b&language=en_US, Titanic https://www.amazon.com/Titanic-Leonardo-DiCaprio/dp/B00A3ZJIY6/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1541994982&sr=1-2&keywords=Titanic&linkCode=ll1&tag=offsitoftimfe-20&linkId=4a755b2b24fddef0add86db90374fbe4&language=en_US, and Avatar https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003EVWDR0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ref=sr_1_1_acs_kn_imdb_pa_dp&qid=1541995001&sr=1-1-acs&autoplay=0&linkCode=ll1&tag=offsitoftimfe-20&linkId=159410d8e8d58dcc284ed90f09556343&language=en_US. Both Titanic and Avatar (the highest grossing film of all time) won the Golden Globe for Best Director and Best Picture and were nominated for a record number of awards. Cameron was also at the vanguard of the 3D renaissance, developing cutting edge 3D camera systems. As an explorer, in 2012, Cameron set the world's solo deep diving record of 35,787' in the Challenger Deep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_Deep in a vehicle of his own design. A dedicated environmentalist, Cameron founded The Avatar Alliance Foundation to take action on climate change, energy policy, deforestation, indigenous rights, ocean conservation, and sustainable agriculture. He is currently in production on Avatar 2, 3, 4, and 5. Suzy Amis Cameron (@suzymusing https://twitter.com/suzymusing) is a noted environmental advocate, mother of five, and the author of OMD: The Simple, Plant-Based Program to Save Your Health, Save Your Waistline, and Save the Planet https://omdfortheplanet.com/what-is-omd/the-book/and the founder of the OMD Movement, https://omdfortheplanet.com/ a multi-pronged effort to transform eating habits and the food system. She is also a founder of Plant Power Task Force, http://www.plantpowertaskforce.org/ focused on showing the impact of animal agriculture on climate change and the environment, founded in 2012 with her husband James Cameron and Craig McCaw. In 2005, she founded MUSE School https://www.museschool.org/page, the first school in the country to be 100% solar powered with zero waste and a 100% organic, plant-based lunch program. Additionally, she is a founder of Verdient Foods http://www.verdientfoodsinc.com/, Cameron Family Farms https://www.cameronfamilyfarms.nz/, Food Forest Organics https://foodforestorganics.co.nz/, and Red Carpet Green Dress https://www.redcarpetgreendress.com/. As an actor she has been featured in more than 25 films, including The Usual Suspects https://www.amazon.com/Usual-Suspects-Stephen-Baldwin/dp/B07K4Y24NK/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1541995168&sr=1-2&keywords=The+Usual+Suspects&linkCode=ll1&tag=offsitoftimfe-20&linkId=37e572853cb4e8b0dd467eb7f7e90524&language=en_US and Titanic https://www.amazon.com/Titanic-Leonardo-DiCaprio/dp/B00A3ZJIY6/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1541994982&sr=1-2&keywords=Titanic&linkCode=ll1&tag=offsitoftimfe-20&linkId=4a755b2b24fddef0add86db90374fbe4&language=en_US. I thought this episode would be a good opportunity to give some air time to discussion of plant-based diets, but even if you disagree with the idea of plant-based diets, I suggest listening for at least three reasons: One, there's plenty of non-plant talk. Two, as an exercise in patience. I do my best to expose people to different perspectives, and this is no exception. Three, OMD (One Meal Per Day) is worth learning about to understand the discipline that goes into conscious eating and habit formation. And not to be missed, James mentions that unlike on previous films he didn't get sick during the simultaneous filming of Avatar 2 and 3, which is astonishing considering, as he put it, that "they [meaning all staff] know coming in when they sign up that it's going to be the most difficult production in human history." So how did he do it? He credits it to his new routine, including a plant-based diet, supplements, exercise, etc. I asked him for a sample day, which he provided. You can find James's super dialed-in daily routine for Avatar 2 and 3 at tim.blog/jamescameron https://tim.blog/jamescameron. Please enjoy! P. S. And if you want to hear more from Suzy and James, you can find two bonus episodes published on the Tribe of Mentors podcast. This podcast is brought to you by Four Sigmatic http://foursigmatic.com/tim. I reached out to these Finnish entrepreneurs after a very talented acrobat introduced me to one of their products, which blew my mind (in the best way possible). It is mushroom coffee featuring chaga http://foursigmatic.com/tim. It tastes like coffee, but there are only 40 milligrams of caffeine, so it has less than half of what you would find in a regular cup of coffee. I do not get any jitters, acid reflux, or any type of stomach burn. It put me on fire for an entire day, and I only had half of the packet. People are always asking me what I use for cognitive enhancement right now -- this is the answer. You can try it right now by going to foursigmatic.com/tim http://foursigmatic.com/tim and using the code Tim to get 20 percent off your first order. If you are in the experimental mindset, I do not think you'll be disappointed. *** If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tim-ferriss-show/id863897795?mt=2/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. I also love reading the reviews! For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts http://tim.blog/transcripts. Interested in sponsoring the podcast? Please fill out the form at tim.blog/sponsor http://tim.blog/sponsor. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books http://tim.blog/books. 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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I ask you a personal question?

• 0:08Speaker 01

  No, we're just seeing an appropriate time.

• 0:12Speaker 00

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 0:24Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Four Sigmatic, founded by the genius Finns, who lit the internet on fire. And you may have heard of their mushroom coffee, which features chaga and lion's mane, which has taken Silicon Valley by storm. I use it pretty much every day, either that or the chaga, which is decaf, so it's a separate version. And I use both of these primarily for focus and productivity. They just get you going, light you up like a Christmas tree. So you should definitely check it out. People are always asking me what I use for cognitive enhancement and for, right now, this is the answer. I try to force this on all of my house guests. It is a hell of a thing.

• 1:06Tim Ferriss?

  If I have employees or people come over who are working on projects with me, I always try to feed it to them because I'm going to get the limitless effect and get a lot more out of them. The first time I mentioned this product and Four Sigmatic on the podcast, their product sold out in less than a week. So you may want to check them out soon if you're listening to this. And the coffee tastes like coffee. It takes just seconds to prepare with hot water and oddly enough, only includes 40 milligrams of caffeine. So it has less than half of what you'd get in a regular cup of coffee. I don't get any jitters, acid reflux, or any stomach burn, any of that. It's very unusual and very, very cool.

• 1:46Tim Ferriss?

  So if you don't like caffeine, they also offer very strong but caffeine-free mushroom elixirs, which I will sometimes have in the evening. I find chaga specifically to be very, very grounding and earthy. So that is another option. And I have a cupboard full of their products at the moment, which is right around the corner of my kitchen. You can try something, you can try a sample pack, which is great also, right now by going to foursigmatic.com. Sigmatic.com forward slash Tim. That's four sigmatic, F-O-U-R-S-I-G-M-A-T-I-C dot com forward slash Tim. And use the code TIM, T-I-M, to get 20% off of your first order. And they're not that expensive, anyway. If you are in the experimental mindset, I do not think you'll be disappointed. So try them out.

• 2:32Tim Ferriss?

  Well, hello, boys and girls. This is Tim Ferriss, and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to tease out the habits, routines, belief systems, life lessons from people who are the best at what they do, and to hopefully give you an opportunity to test those things in your own life. In this episode, we have a power couple, in fact. But let's go back in time to around 2009 or 2010, when I was given a T-shirt, and the T-shirt was an avatar, as in the film, an avatar staff T-shirt. And on the front was a quote, and the quote was, "Hope is not a strategy. Luck is not a factor. Fear is not an option."

• 3:15Tim Ferriss?

  It is attributed to James Cameron, who is part of the dynamic duo who will be featured in this episode. Who's James Cameron, you ask? James Cameron is a filmmaker and deep sea explorer. He is writer, director, and producer of many films, including The Terminator, Aliens, The Abyss, Terminator 2: True Lies, Titanic, and Avatar. Both Titanic and Avatar, the highest grossing film of all time, won the Golden Globe for Best Director and Best Picture, and were nominated for a record number of awards. Cameron was also at the vanguard of the 3D Renaissance, developing cutting-edge 3D camera systems. As an explorer in 2012, Cameron set the world's solo deep diving record of 35,787 feet in the Challenger Deep,

• 4:00Tim Ferriss?

  in a vehicle of his own design. He is a dedicated environmentalist. And he has founded the Avatar Alliance Foundation to take action on climate change, energy policy, deforestation, indigenous rights, ocean conservation, and sustainable agriculture. He's currently in production on Avatar 2, 3, 4, and 5. You can find him on Twitter @JimCameron. Suzie Amis Cameron, his wife, is a noted environmental advocate, mother of five, and the author of OMD, which is One Meal a Day. OMD, subtitle, "The Simple Plant-Based Program to Save Your Health, Save Your Waistline, and Save the Planet," and the founder of the OMD Movement, a multi-pronged effort to transform eating habits and the food system.

• 4:43Tim Ferriss?

  She is also founder of Plant Power Task Force, focused on showing the impact of animal agriculture on climate change and the environment, founded in 2012 with her husband, that is Jim, and Craig McCaw. In 2005, she founded Muse School, the first school in the country to be 100% solar-powered with zero waste and a 100% organic, plant-based lunch program. Additionally, she is founder of Verdient Foods, Cameron Family Farms, and Food Forest Organics, along with Red Carpet Green Dress. As an actor, she's been featured in more than 25 films, including The Usual Suspects and Titanic. You can find her online, Facebook, Suzie

• 5:23Tim Ferriss?

  A. Cameron, that's Suzie, S-U-Z-Y, Twitter, Suzie Musing, and Instagram, Suzie Amis Cameron. A few housekeeping notes right up front. There are two other episodes that I'm publishing simultaneously with James and Suzie on the Tribe of Mentors podcast. I want to do an experiment and split things up a little bit for a whole host of reasons. In the shorter episode that you'll find on the Tribe of Mentors podcast, I include their answers to some of my common questions, including what is bad advice you often hear in your areas of expertise or in your industry. And I'll give you a teaser for that. Do What

• 6:05Tim Ferriss?

  You Love is one of the answers that is elaborated on. Favorite books, books that have been most gifted to others, and then favorite failures, so failures they have learned the most from. And the second episode, which is going to be on the Tribe of Mentors podcast, is the full audio. Also not to be missed, there's a bonus in text. So James mentions in the full audio that unlike on previous films, he did not get sick during the simultaneous filming slash production of Avatar 2 and 3, which is astonishing considering, as he put it, that "they," meaning all staff, know coming in when they sign up that it's going to be the most difficult production in human history. So how did he do it?

• 6:47Tim Ferriss?

  He credits his stamina and health during that period to his new routine, including plant-based diet, supplements, exercise, and so on. So I asked him for a concrete daily calendar with exact food, supplements, times, and so on, which he provided. So you can find James' super-dialed-in daily routine for Avatar 2 and 3 at tim.blog/jamescameron. That's tim.blog/jamescameron. All right, so some of you who are long-term listeners have no doubt heard multiple guests on to discuss the ketogenic diet, to discuss alternate approaches to food and health.

• 7:28Tim Ferriss?

  And I thought that this episode would be a good opportunity to give some airtime to discussion of plant-based diets. And it should also be underscored that there are chapters in The Four Hour Body, two of them with the legendary ultra-endurance athlete Scott Jurek about plant-based diets. And even if you disagree with perhaps plant-based diets, or any of the arguments you might hear from Susie and James, it's just listening for at least three reasons. Number one, there's plenty of non-plant talk, and we jump right into it with discussion of how they both respond to feeling overwhelmed or distracted. The second is patience.

• 8:11Tim Ferriss?

  In this podcast, I do my best to, in a gentle way, sometimes not so gentle, but often a gentle way, expose people to

• 8:20Tim Ferriss?

  Different viewpoints, different perspectives in the world, which is why I have on very often, for instance, someone who's highly religious, like Rabbi Jonathan Sacks. And then I will have, just a few episodes later, someone like Sam Harris, who is PhD in neuroscience and very well-known for being an atheist. I might have someone who is far left and then someone who is far right, because I like to focus on some of the commonalities and also the thought processes. The only way you can understand your argument, your position best is to also understand the opposing viewpoints. All right, so that's number two. This is an exercise in patience, especially in these divisive times. I think it is a worthwhile exercise. And third, OMD, one meal per day that is plant-based.

• 9:04Tim Ferriss?

  I would recommend, even if you don't plan on converting to fully plant-based, as a consciousness practice and an exercise, which is something I very often do. I will impose certain constraints on my eating, eliminate a certain food product, or I will insist that I eat based on a spectrum of color as a way to make my subconscious or automatic behaviors, i.e. eating, more conscious, so that I'm more aware of what I am doing and the decisions I am making. So those are a few of the many reasons I would suggest, listening to this. And without further ado, let's just jump right into it with Suzy and James Cameron.

• 9:52Speaker 03

  Well, haul off, baby.

• 9:54Speaker 04

  Well, Tim, first of all, we want to say hi. And when we first met you, we were all flying around in the parabolic flight with...

• 10:04Speaker 03

  Elon Musk and a bunch of other crazy folks.

• 10:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:07Speaker 03

  Doing somersaults in zero G.

• 10:10Speaker 04

  Super fun. Super fun.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  So, hey, Tim. Thanks for having us on the show. We're honored to be here.

• 10:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, really, really excited.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  On the podcast, I guess. Do you still call a podcast a show? I guess you can.

• 10:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, The Tim Ferriss Show.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  Oh, cool, then I guess. If it's called The Tim Ferriss Show, then it's got to be a show.

• 10:32Speaker 04

  When you feel overwhelmed, or unfocused, or have lost your focus temporarily, what do you do? If helpful, what questions do you ask yourself?

• 10:43Speaker 03

  So what do I do when I feel overwhelmed?

• 10:45Speaker 04

  Ah!

• 10:49Speaker 03

  I clean off my desk. Because I'm working at a high pace. Everything piles up. And just the act of cleaning off my desk is like a reset. It's like power cycling a computer. It's a reboot. And I usually find that about half the stuff that's accumulated, I can throw out. And the other half, I have to put in piles. I have to put them in the right place. So now I'm prioritizing. Now I'm thinking, oh, well, that's still important. So I think that if you're a team leader, you've got to get your own priorities straight before you can generate priorities for the team. And I've found that whenever I hit one of those moments, I also find it's great to take a day off, or even half a day off. Just force yourself to take a day off,

• 11:33Speaker 03

  not to go play, but to just reorganize. And just kind of write down the series of priorities or memos to yourself. And out of that, I typically will generate things that I hand out to my team to give them their marching orders, to kind of get us back on track. And it's amazing how things just pop into focus and solutions present themselves. Because I haven't stopped running. I haven't gotten off the treadmill until that moment to lift my head out of the day-to-day battle, to think about, well, how are we going to really win this war? Something like a big film production is like a campaign that takes place over sometimes a period of years.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  And if you don't take a moment out to kind of look at the big picture. So most of the major strategic decisions that I've made during the productions of the two Avatar films so far over the last couple of years have come from that. That down day.

• 12:33Speaker 04

  Right.

• 12:33Speaker 03

  That catch up day. It's not about taking a day off, taking a nap. That's a good idea, too.

• 12:38Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 12:38Speaker 03

  And, you know, go swim or play with the kids or whatever. You've got to do that, too. But just take a day for yourself with no distractions to just get everything in order. That helps me a lot. If nothing else, I just feel better about it.

• 12:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 12:50Speaker 03

  I come in, there's a clean desk. Here's some memos. You guys go do the work.

• 12:55Speaker 04

  Well, I think we're really similar on that. I mean, I have a tendency to walk through the house and get ridiculously overwhelmed with, you know, all the kids and the cats and the dogs and the bearded dragon and the people.

• 13:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:09Speaker 04

  So I always like to go in and just reorganize the house, but I always start with my office as well. And I like to take a big piece of typing paper and write out, you know, I create columns and I write out all my emails that I need to do and all my calls that I need to do. And then there's a whole section in there just for household things.

• 13:31Speaker 03

  Lists are good.

• 13:31Speaker 04

  Work things and all of those. And, you know, I know that the children are learning this as well because when they, you know, of course, they roll their eyes when I walk in and say, okay, we're going to, we're going to take a clean day, an organizing day, and here's some boxes for giveaways. They roll their eyes, but in the end, they love it and they feel better.

• 13:54Speaker 03

  And they get into it.

• 13:55Speaker 04

  And they get into it. So it's, it's, it's the same sort of thing. And, and taking a walk and then realizing like, okay, what is the first thing I can do that's going to get me on that journey of, towards my, towards my goal, but always keeping that goal in mind of, of whatever that is.

• 14:14Speaker 03

  You know, sometimes the best way to solve a problem is to walk away from it for a second.

• 14:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  It's counterintuitive for, for us type, type A types that just bash our heads against the problem all day long, boom, boom, boom, boom.

• 14:24Speaker 04

  We're tripping.

• 14:25Speaker 03

  Day after day. You know, I had an epiphany while I was writing Avatar. I was working down in New Zealand. Office was kind of in the, in the country and. You know, I was just having a, it was just impossible to solve some of the dramatic problems. I just couldn't, I couldn't solve it. I couldn't fix the script. And I was sitting, I just walked away. I sat down, sat outside, and there was a glass cover to the veranda. And I watched this big fly. And he was trying to get out, and he was banging against the glass. And he just kept hitting the glass over and over and over and over, because that's how his little chip was programmed. You go toward the light, you go toward the

• 15:05Speaker 03

  sky. And he couldn't get to the sky. All he had to do was drop down, fly three feet sideways, and come out. But he couldn't process it. And I thought, how often am I that fly? How often is there some higher level of perspective that I lack in my chip that I'm missing, that is so simple that some fourth dimensional being could look at the problem and go, oh, you idiot, you just dropped down, go over three feet, and you're out. But the fly couldn't do it. And I thought, what am I not seeing, you know? And that's when I, I went back to first principles. And I looked, I looked at the whole thing from a, from a higher level. I got out of the trenches for that moment. And that's how I, that's how I solved the problem.

• 15:49Speaker 04

  Yeah. I think also too is learning when to recognize when you're hitting that window. And also learning to recognize when it's the path of least resistance, because you know you're on the right path. When doors just continue to open.

• 16:05Speaker 03

  Well, that's true. That's the opposite. When, when, that's the other thing. It's important to recognize when things are breaking your way. When, when you have momentum, when you're not hitting the glass, you take advantage of it.

• 16:18Speaker 04

  Right.

• 16:19Speaker 03

  And you, you, you ride that tailwind.

• 16:21Speaker 04

  But there's a difference too. It's, it's when you know you want to do something, and you feel really strongly about it, and you have a lot of people around you saying, no, and you shouldn't do it, and it's gonna be too hard. And that, I mean, I know it works for you that way, but I mean, that just lights an inferno under my butt. It's like, okay, really? No? Watch me.

• 16:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love to say that to my team on Avatar. Oh, well, we shouldn't do that, guys, because that's gonna be hard.

• 16:47Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 16:49Speaker 03

  When they know coming in, when they sign up, that it's going to be the most difficult production in human history, just by its nature.

• 16:58Speaker 04

  Right.

• 16:59Speaker 03

  Where every blade of grass in the entire world that we're creating is created by somebody, by a computer artist, or by some kind of algorithm that's self-growing, or whatever. You know by definition, it's going to be hard.

• 17:15Speaker 04

  Right.

• 17:16Speaker 03

  You're there because it's hard. You're doing it because it's hard. You know? Because that's how you measure yourself against that challenge. And that's why everybody that's on the Avatar team is there. Because they know it's going to be the hardest motherfucker they ever work on.

• 17:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  And they want that. Now, they'll all go whine about it later and say, "That was the hardest motherfucker I ever worked on." And that's why I have this reputation as a cruel taskmaster. But in fact, they've all showed up because they want to do that. They want to climb that mountain.

• 17:44Speaker 04

  And they've learned from it. I mean, that's how, like, the teachers at Muse, they're teaching in a way they've never, nobody teaches that way. And it's really challenging.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:53Speaker 04

  But they learn.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, the kids don't like holidays because they don't get to go to school.

• 17:57Speaker 04

  If you could have one gigantic billboard anywhere with anything on it, metaphorically speaking, getting a message out to millions or billions, what would it say and why? Could be a few words or a paragraph. If helpful, it can be someone else's quote. Are there any quotes you can think of or live your life by?

• 18:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm terrible with quotes and, you know, that sort of thing. But I think I would sum up philosophically what I would ask people to do, which is to live in a more connected way, to see yourself as part of a big global system and know that every action you take has a consequence. Every choice you make as a consumer, whether it's, you know, using plastics or using electricity or replacing that iPhone that's only six months old because there's a better one, that that has an impact on somebody somewhere or some animal somewhere or some...

• 19:02Speaker 03

  Ecosystem somewhere that, you know, when I, when I look at the history of the human race up until now, and this all doesn't go on the billboard, by the way, I'm going to try to condense this down, but I look at the history up till now, we've been all about expansion. It's an endless hunger to, to conquer and expand and, and, and we've, we've filled the planet. We're like a, we're like a bacterial culture that rapidly expands to the edge of the Petri dish. Well, we're hitting the edge of the Petri dish now. And so, everything that always worked throughout human history is not going to work going forward. We're going to have to have some fundamental change in the way we think.

• 19:42Speaker 03

  We're going to have to stop being takers and start being caretakers, or we won't survive. It's that simple now. Maybe, maybe it's 50 years, maybe it's 100 years, maybe it's 200 years, but it's not going to go on the way it's been going on, and we're going to have to change. And I think it's a change for the better. It's a change that's more empathic, it's more compassionate, it, you know. So I guess I would say, stop being a taker, or, or take, take less and caretake more. And I mean that very generally as well. Think about how decisions that you make and things you do are affecting people in other, in other countries. You know, all those people that are coming up in that big caravan, a lot of them have been displaced by, by drought.

• 20:25Speaker 03

  Their farms have collapsed and they can't grow their, they can't grow their food. It's not just about drug violence and all that sort of thing. Especially in, in Guatemala, there are, there are, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people on the move from farms that have collapsed due to unprecedented drought, that's, that's drier conditions than they've ever had in recorded history. And the ability of science to look back hundreds of thousands of years, well, that's climate change at work. And if, if that particular series of droughts is not caused specifically by climate change, it's a pretty damn good bellwether for what it's going to look like when hundreds of thousands and then, and then ultimately hundreds of millions of people are on the move because of climate change.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  So the choices that we're making in our energy consumption, in our consumption of natural resources, in our consumption of foods, is impacting

• 21:19Speaker 03

  Other people in other parts of the world, it'll eventually come back to haunt us with the kinds of political systems that are now, you know, taking over all over the world, these protectionist, isolationist, nationalistic, hyper-nationalistic, populist systems that are about closing borders and shutting down and all that sort of thing. I see it all interlinked and I see it all as a feedback loop that's just going to get worse and worse. So I would say we have to change this from the inside out, from the way we view the world and our place in it. And so, yeah, stop being a taker, start being a caretaker.

• 21:58Speaker 04

  Right.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  That's my billboard.

• 21:59Speaker 04

  When you're talking about the timeline, the United Nations just came out a couple of weeks ago with a report from the IPCC saying that we have to do something by 2030 to turn things around if we are going to survive on this earth. And, you know, one of the things that I really resonate with is the Native American tribes, the First Nations, they always say, no matter what you're doing, realize that it's going to affect the next seven generations. So just being really conscious in your everyday actions

• 22:43Speaker 04

  and tread lightly, tread lightly on the earth.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:49Speaker 03

  I mean, look, we all struggle to do it and we're not, we don't want to come off as holier-than-thou. That's the thing about vegans in general is they're all such, you know, assholes.

• 23:02Speaker 04

  Tell your joke.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  Okay, how many vegans does it take to screw in a light bulb? Doesn't matter, we're better than you.

• 23:10Speaker 04

  Right.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  Right? So, you know, so the problem is people tend to reject, reject what, you know, what we could tell them. But I, you know, I think the answer to that is say, oh, don't, don't take our word for it. Read the books, it's all online. The problem is that people tend to entrench around their belief systems and now with, with, with digital news, the way it is, we can pre-select the inputs. We can pre-select our inputs to support only what we already believe.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  And so, everybody lives in these, in these kind of isolated echo chambers, you know, and it's all exacerbated by, by social media and so on. And so, it's really gonna be another thing that we're gonna have to just get a whole lot better at as a, as a species and as a society, is checking our facts and looking at alternative opinions and especially look at the, at the facts that the, that the, that the other guys have, if they have any.

• 24:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  See, I just did a little confirmation bias swerve at the end there. Yeah, if they have any.

• 24:18Speaker 04

  We're gonna need you to...

• 24:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 24:20Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 24:23Speaker 04

  All right, so, next question. What are you currently most excited about?

• 24:33Speaker 03

  All right, I'm not gonna talk about, about plant-based nutrition.

• 24:36Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 24:36Speaker 03

  Other than to say for one second that I was pretty hopeless about being able to get a handle on climate change, just looking at it from an energy perspective and transportation and all that. And, and when I realized the environmental connection from eating plant-based, I got excited about that. But that's kind of old news, because that's six years ago for us. I guess right now, I'm excited about the Avatar films. I get, I have the coolest job in the world. I get to go in and, and create a world, an ecosystem populated with creatures and cool characters and do that all day long and, you know, live in that fantasy world. So, yeah, I'm pretty excited about it.

• 25:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, so just to, to piggyback on, you know, feeling hopeful, because I am gonna talk about plant-based eating, Jim actually has a T-shirt and one of the lines on it says, "Hope is not a strategy." And he's a doomsday kind of guy. If you watch his movies, they're kind of like the end of the world, apocalyptic. And he never used the word "hope." And six and a half years ago, we were walking on the beach and he said to me, For the first time in my life, I feel hopeful. And needless to say, I almost, you know, fell into the surf.

• 25:56Speaker 04

  But it's planted a seed, you know, that, that the more people we can inspire to eat plant-based, the more we can move the needle on climate change. And it was that seed that was planted that made me think about creating content and writing a book. And I'm most excited about, about the book.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  About your book?

• 26:18Speaker 04

  About my book.

• 26:18Speaker 03

  You get to be excited about your book.

• 26:20Speaker 04

  So it's O M D, changing one meal a day for the planet. And it starts out with the education of the health. I worked with a brain trust of doctors. So it's very, very heavily researched in the medical field around plant-based eating. And then I worked with people from Chatham House and Oxford University and Loma Linda, climate scientists, to help me with the, the environmental impacts of animal agriculture. And then it's a guide. It's a guide of how to do one meal a day, or two meals a day, or blow up your kitchen like Jim and I did and go cold turkey. It has recipes, shopping lists, meal plans. And I'll hold your hand.

• 27:05Speaker 04

  I won't judge you. It's, it's not about being perfect. You can keep your burger if you want to. It's just about one meal a day. O M D.

• 27:14Speaker 03

  All right. So I think there's one more question.

• 27:16Speaker 04

  There is one more question. If you had a request, an ask, or suggestion for the listeners of this podcast, what would it be?

• 27:28Speaker 03

  Oh, I think people that, that listen to Tim and his guests are looking for hacks to make their life better, to, to learn how to live in this, this perplexing world and, and, and live better and kind of be smarter. So I think that, you know, I would just say, read a lot, check your facts, and, you know, don't, don't, don't follow us because we're so sweet and compelling.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  Check the facts.

• 27:57Speaker 04

  Just the facts, ma'am.

• 27:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, you know, it's all out there. But I would say also, take the, be willing to look outside your confirmation bias bubble. And I, look, I force and challenge myself to do this all the time, to get outside that, to get outside that bubble. And so, you know, whatever your beliefs are, ask yourself, one, where did they came from? When did you double down on that? And what have you done to look at it sort of from an objective point of view? And, you know, I try to do that as much as possible. When something comes along that I don't understand, that doesn't fit my belief system, like, you

• 28:40Speaker 03

  know, let me just give an example, like Alan Savory's approach to regenerative agriculture with, you know, grass-fed beef and all the claims that were made around that, I looked into it. And I thought, wow, maybe there's something here. And I went pretty far down the rabbit hole on that before and looked at the science on both sides of it and ultimately saw that it wasn't the right answer, but I didn't just reject it out of hand because it didn't fit my, you know, my belief system.

• 29:10Speaker 04

  Right. Well, I think my ask would be to take the OMD pledge.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 29:17Speaker 04

  And pledge one meal a day, or two meals a day, or go all in, because it'll help your health, it'll help the planet, it'll help your, the animals, your waistline, and your sex life.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 29:31Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 29:31Speaker 03

  Not necessarily in that order.

• 29:35Speaker 04

  Anyway, thanks, Tim.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, thanks, Tim.

• 29:39Speaker 04

  This was really fun, and thanks for having us on.

• 29:42Speaker 03

  It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

• 29:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, thank you.

• 29:45Tim Ferriss?

  Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday? That provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend. And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short.

• 30:28Tim Ferriss?

  It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out. And just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by Four Sigmatic, founded by the genius Finns who lit the internet on fire. And you may have heard of their mushroom coffee, which features chaga and lion's mane, which has taken Silicon Valley by storm. I use it pretty much every day, either that or the chaga, which is decaf, a separate version. And I use both of these primarily for focus and productivity.

• 31:12Tim Ferriss?

  They just get you going, light you up like a Christmas tree. So you should definitely check it out. People are always asking me what I use for cognitive enhancement. And for right now, this is the answer. I try to force this on all of my house guests. It is a hell of a thing. If I have employees or people come over who are working on projects with me, I always try to feed it to them because I'm going to get the limitless effect and get a lot more out of them. The first time I mentioned this product and Four Sigmatic on the podcast, their product sold out in less than a week. So you may want to check them out soon if you're listening to this. And the coffee tastes like coffee.

• 31:51Tim Ferriss?

  It takes just seconds to prepare with hot water and oddly enough, only includes 40 milligrams of caffeine. So it has less than half of what you'd get in a regular cup of coffee. I don't get any jitters, acid reflux, or any stomach burn, any of that. It's very unusual and very, very cool. If you don't like caffeine, they also offer very strong but caffeine-free mushroom elixirs, which I will sometimes have in the evening. I find Chaga specifically to be very, very grounding and earthy. So that is another option. And I have a cupboard full of their products at the moment, which is right around the corner in my kitchen. You can try something, you can try a sample pack, which is great also, right now by

• 32:31Tim Ferriss?

  going to foursigmatic.com/tim. That's F-O-U-R-S-I-G-M-A-T-I-C.com/tim. And use the code TIM, T-I-M, to get 20% off of your first order. And they're not that expensive, anyway. If you are in the experimental mindset, I do not think you'll be disappointed. So try them out.