#170 with Jake Paul - Why Jake Paul Thinks He's Worth Billions

Shaan (@ShaanVP) and Sam (@TheSamParr) are joined by Jake Paul (@JakePaul) and Geoffrey Woo (@geoffreywoo). The guys talk about Jake's upcoming fight with Ben Askren and a friendly wager Sam placed. We dive into business with Jake giving his take on the creator economy, why he's worth billions to the big platforms, and how Bitclout can play a role in all of it. He thinks he can be the next Jay-Z or Dr. Dre, bridging an entertainment career with a successful business one. He's already had a hit with Fanjoy, which he breaks down for us. Jake also talks about his investment philosophy, some of the companies he's investing in, and the areas he's most interested in at the moment. --------- * Want to be featured in a future episode? Drop your question/comment/criticism/love here: https://www.mfmpod.com/p/hotline/ * Support the pod by spreading the word, become a referrer here: refer.fm/million * Have you joined our private Facebook group yet? Go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/ourfirstmillion and join thousands of other entrepreneurs and founders scheming up ideas. --------- Show notes: * (2:32) Jake talks about his upcoming fight with Ben Askren * (7:29) Jake and Geoff talk about his new fund and his investing philosophy * (20:14) The business opportunities Jake's most interested in * (30:41) The guys give their takes on Bitclout and the creator economy * (40:05) Brainstorming with Jake * (1:05:08) The guys debrief after the Jake Paul podcast

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Part of it's just legacy for me, you know, just wanting to be this generation's Jay-Z or Dr. Dre.

• 0:19Sam Parr?

  Jake, do you know anything about this podcast? Do you know anything about the hustle? What's your context here? Cause we know, I mean, I know everything about you.

• 0:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty up to speed, you know, I'm not, I'm not an expert on my first million podcasts, but, but I know, I know Sam, I know you from some Gary Vee videos and I've watched you. And yeah, just Jeff has spoken super highly of you and yeah, excited, excited to be on the podcast and, and learn what it's all about.

• 0:52Sam Parr?

  Well, yeah, so I can give you the, the, which I'll give you the short rundown, but I'll say that whenever we talk about numbers, I feel pretty proud of them. And then I talk to you and I'm like, fuck, that's not that interesting. So like, so anyway, the hustle got like 2 million subscribers and read by those folks each day to get their business news. And then we have a bunch of other businesses that are subsidiaries. We have this thing called Trends where we analyze cool companies. We have this podcast, which Sean started, but we just sold the company for a fair bit of money to HubSpot like 60 days ago now, 30 days ago. And Sean had a company that he sold to Twitch or Amazon.

• 1:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:33Sam Parr?

  So that's kind of like our, our, our experience here, which is actually similar to you, Jeff. I think that Jeff, you and I and Sean are a little bit similar, but Jake, like when we say our numbers of like X millions of people.

• 1:45Shaan Puri?

  He's like, that's cute. 5 million downloads. That's cute. I remember I farted once and got 5 million downloads.

• 1:50Speaker 00

  No, I, I actually don't think that. I look at people who have niche followings almost as more powerful because it's what, what audience are you influencing over? And, you know, are they, are they listening to what you're saying? You know, can you move them into different segments? Like there, there's people who have maybe 10,000 followers. Like I know this, this yoga instructor, she has 10,000 followers, but she has like a course where a thousand people or, or 2,000 people are paying her to teach them yoga.

• 2:22Sam Parr?

  So do you do for for some of these YouTube folks? So what we're going to talk about today? We'll talk a little bit about you boxing. So oddly enough, Ben at so we have this thing called trends where we have a team of analysts who break down interesting companies. And then we have a community where people discuss it. Ben is a paying member of that group. And I think Jeff either I think you I don't know if you're a paying member, but I invited you to it. And I commented in the group. I go, Hey, I'm interviewing Jake. He just launched this this fund with Jeff, who's another member. And they're going to be investing in X, Y, and Z. And we're going to interview them in a couple of days, which we ask them. And Ben was the top comment. He commented right away. What did he say? Ask him why he's such a jackass?

• 3:05Shaan Puri?

  Ask him why he sucks, which is like classic, classic Ben Askren shit talk. I love it.

• 3:09Speaker 03

  We can answer that question. But I invited him to make money on both sides, right? He's going to make a little bit of money from the fight. And we'll help invest that money and make them even more money. Right? Like, I think, I mean, Jake has obviously a personal tie in here. But I think we're all about business and making people money here with anti fund.

• 3:29Sam Parr?

  Yeah, and it was just funny how like, you know, usually Sean and I are like, we like MMA and stuff. When we talk about that, and then we have tech over here. It's like, oh, my gosh, this is all one now.

• 3:39Shaan Puri?

  We'll do like a fighting section at the last five minutes of just shit we're nerding out about. And nobody listens to it. And like, nobody gives a fuck because our our audience is all business people. But you know, that's me and Sam's little time that we have at the end. But I want to talk about three things. So first, I guess, the headline stuff, which is you got a big fight coming up. I think it's next week, right? Next Saturday?

• 3:59Speaker 03

  Six days from now.

• 4:00Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 4:01Shaan Puri?

  Six days from now. All right, cool. The second. So that's on Triller, right?

• 4:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, trillerfightclub.com if anyone wants to order it.

• 4:11Shaan Puri?

  And I'm gonna I'm gonna watch it because A, I'm a fight fan. But B, this is one where it's actually very interesting because Normally, like, okay, I'm gonna talk about your brother for a second. So your brother Logan Paul was scheduled or is scheduled to fight Floyd Mayweather, which is like, you know, it's call a spade a spade, pretty fucking lopsided matchup. You got the greatest boxer ever, probably, never been, never been beat, never been knocked down, going against somebody who's, you know, very much an amateur and has made their, made their name in entertainment more so than anything else. But you versus Ben is like actually something I've gotten into many debates about because you've legit been training for years. Ben is kind of like the worst boxer in MMA.

• 4:53Shaan Puri?

  And so you sort of take a guy who's, was a champion level fighter, but not a great boxer against a guy who's actually getting pretty fucking good at boxing, and put them together. And so there's, there's actually, it's pretty torn. Dana White, I think, bet a million dollars on Ben Askren. He didn't even like Ben Askren. So, so the MMA guys are really trying to back him up, but I think that's a super interesting fight that's coming up. Sam, are you into this?

• 5:16Sam Parr?

  Yeah, 100%. I just watched Logan's podcast with Ben.

• 5:21Shaan Puri?

  You're friends with Ben and you have like your Midwestern, like you love Midwestern guy, you love Ben. We have Jake here right in your face. Do you have, Sam, who, who do you, who do you favor here?

• 5:31Speaker 03

  Dude, Sam and I have a prop bet on this. You want to talk about the bet and like put it on record here, Sam?

• 5:37Speaker 00

  Because next week, Sam's not gonna have any hair.

• 5:40Sam Parr?

  You know about this. Oh my gosh. So, yes.

• 5:43Shaan Puri?

  You shaving your head if you, if you?

• 5:45Sam Parr?

  Shaving my head. Yeah. Is your hair thinning, Jeff? Cause mine is a little bit and I'm, I'm like, and I made this bet and I saw, um, I started doing research and watching Jake spar and stuff.

• 5:57Shaan Puri?

  You got nervous.

• 5:58Sam Parr?

  And I heard, I was like, oh my God, I wish I would have just bet money.

• 6:03Speaker 00

  You, you made your assumption before watching any footage or looking into it?

• 6:08Shaan Puri?

  Emotional bet.

• 6:09Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I, I did it purely on emotion because we had Ben on prior and I like Ben. I mean, I, I don't know you yet, but I imagine I like you too, but I knew him first.

• 6:18Shaan Puri?

  See Jake, here's the thing.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. So just to summarize for the audience here, we have it on record. So no one punks out here. Sam and I were chatting on Facebook Messenger. And we were just talking some shit and basically I'm like, hey, let's put something on the line, right? I think money is one thing, but I think there's something fun, something of a prop bet. And I think we came up with, we're gonna turn into just like whoever loses, I got my boy Jake, you got your boy, Sam got his boy Ben, whoever loses is gonna go shave all their hair off.

• 6:50Sam Parr?

  With a razor, egg razor.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're gonna go hardcore.

• 6:55Shaan Puri?

  I like how you clarified with a big razor, like it made it better.

• 6:58Sam Parr?

  No, bick, a bick, like it's called, we used to call it bickin' it, you gotta bick it. It's like a, yeah, right, like, like skinhead, yes.

• 7:09Sam Parr?

  Yeah, so anyway, we're gonna see what's, what will happen with that, but either way, I'm gonna win because it's exciting. So we're all gonna win, I think. So that's good.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  I'm gonna keep my beautiful hair and it's gonna be funny to see you as a skinhead, Sam.

• 7:23Sam Parr?

  Well, unfortunately, I already look like one, so the odds aren't in my favor.

• 7:28Shaan Puri?

  The second thing is you guys launched this fund called the Anti Fund. It's a rolling fund, right, Jeff?

• 7:32Speaker 03

  Correct. It's on Angelus Rolling Fund.

• 7:34Shaan Puri?

  Angelus Rolling Fund. We've talked about rolling funds before. So Jake, actually to your point of like the power of a niche loyal following. So I've been doing this podcast for, I think I did it for like a year. And then I was like, you know what? I'm gonna launch a rolling fund. And I said, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm not gonna go to anyone I know in real life. I didn't go to Sam. I didn't go to Jeff. I didn't go to any of my friends who kind of were like, I think if I went to friends in Silicon Valley and say, hey, I'm starting a fund, they would have cut me a check. It would have been great, but not a remarkable story. Instead, I said, I'm gonna only raise this from people I've never met, who just follow me on either Twitter or from the podcast. And I tweeted out, I said, I'm gonna try to raise a million dollars in 21 days. And we're like, I think we crushed it in like three days and we are now at four million a year on the rolling fund from people I never met and I never did

• 8:15Shaan Puri?

  a phone call. So I never did a pitch meeting or anything like that. And that was the power of kind of like a niche following or a trusted audience that really isn't that big, but the power of the trust and the quality of the audience made it so that I could raise one of the bigger rolling funds.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  That's huge. Yeah, that's a remarkable story. And that was sort of, you know, why we chose to go through the Angelus Rolling Fund platform is because we wanted to be able to sort of crowdsource from our, you know, fans and people who support me and be able to market it out there so that everyone can get involved. Because when we're coming into these startups, our sort of differentiating factor is like the traction and marketing that we can bring to them. And if we have an army of investors who want to see these products succeed, then, you know, we're all going to be pushing it. And it sort of creates this movement.

• 9:09Sam Parr?

  How much have you guys raised so far? Can you say or no?

• 9:11Speaker 03

  We're not going to say, but I think in terms of just like anchor LPs, we have Mark Andreessen, Chris Dixon, a bunch of friends. And it's also very interesting to see and talk to a lot of institutional investors.

• 9:23Sam Parr?

  But do they go through the Rolling Fund platform? Because then you're going to have to give Angelus their cut.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  No.

• 9:30Speaker 03

  I mean, I think we're, I think Angelus has been good partners, honestly, right? Like, I think the back office and smoothness on that platform, we're very happy to share. I mean, I think, I think Jake and I, I think resonate because we're long-term players here. And I think it's a very interesting evolution of the venture capital ecosystem, right? Like, I know, Sam, you're starting to invest. I mean, Sean, you have a great portfolio. I mean, I'm sure we should, we should talk about this, but it is very interesting to see how Wall Street hedge, crosswear hedge funds are coming downstream, top-tier venture capital firms are going upstream into public market entities. I think the growth equity people in the middle are getting crushed. I think you see solo capitalists raising

• 10:12Speaker 03

  hundreds of millions of dollars in SPVs. I mean, I think the ecosystem is really, really changing. And in our thesis is that we're all entrepreneurs here, right? Like, just look at the people on your cap table, who are actually people who add value. And these old-school funds who are middling, like,

• 10:31Speaker 03

  I think people like us should eat their lunch.

• 10:33Sam Parr?

  What, what?

• 10:34Speaker 03

  But it's not to say that like, we can't be complimentary. But I think just, I think as a founder, I'm looking at the cap table that in my businesses. And it's very easy to see like in terms of dollar dilution to value add. Like the best people on my cap table are entrepreneurs and operators. And I think Jake and I wanted to be those people on our portfolio companies. And I think

• 10:56Sam Parr?

  Well, how much is the fund? How much is the fund going to be, you think? So I think you, you, you guys said you wanted to be number one. Um, I don't know who the biggest is. Sean, you're at like, what, five million?

• 11:06Shaan Puri?

  Four, but that's not the biggest. Sahil, I think has the biggest rolling fund right now. Fif, maybe 10, 15 million, something like that.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  I think Pomp has a big one too.

• 11:14Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 11:15Sam Parr?

  But you guys gotta be in the 15 range.

• 11:18Shaan Puri?

  Having, having a bigger

• 11:19Sam Parr?

  Well, no, it does matter. That, that, bro, that's what they said they wanted to do. In the press release, they go, we want to be number one.

• 11:23Shaan Puri?

  If that's your goal, you should want the best returns, not the largest size fund. Uh, so, so bad goal, if, if that is your goal. Is that your goal, Jeff, to have the largest capital base? That's not going to do anything for you.

• 11:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, no, I, I think that's just like us in a competitive spirit.

• 11:38Shaan Puri?

  Right.

• 11:38Speaker 03

  But I think the core metric for us is best cash and cash returns, right? End of the day, it's IRR and returning capital to our LPs.

• 11:47Shaan Puri?

  So Jake, were you angel investing before this? Or is this kind of your first for, for you personally into startup investments?

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I've been angel investing since I was like 18. I'm, I'm 24 now. And then I also had a, a fund when I was 18 called TGZ Capital. Um, and we, we raised a pretty decent amount of money, but was just getting my feet wet into the, into the tech business. But invested into over 20 consumer startups and the fund is, is performing well. We're seeing exits. Um, and we're basically tripling, uh, we basically tripled our, our IRR.

• 12:27Shaan Puri?

  Capital.

• 12:27Speaker 00

  So, um, pretty successful there as my first fund, but now

• 12:31Shaan Puri?

  So give us some names. What are some companies?

• 12:34Speaker 00

  Sorry, it's a little lag, but

• 12:36Shaan Puri?

  What are some companies you invested in that we might have heard of?

• 12:38Speaker 00

  So Quip, I think, is one of the biggest ones that's like performing, No Foods, Triller, which Quip, Quip, the toothbrush thing? Yeah, Hush, Hush Beauty.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  Just, just a lot, a lot of, a lot of consumer brands and, you know, it's, that was, again, just me getting started and I was 18, 19, 20 years old at the time. And now it's like, my reach is bigger than ever. My, my knowledge is, is more than ever. And I have Jeff, who has such a great reputation and is an amazing founder and entrepreneur. So just really excited to, to, you know, go head, head down.

• 13:23Shaan Puri?

  How did you guys meet? Is there a good story? Cause Jeff,

• 13:27Shaan Puri?

  Jeff is kind of like, you know, Asian guy from the tech scene, successful, you know, tech entrepreneur. Jake, you're like, I don't know, YouTube Playboy. How, how did y'all even cross paths? Is there a good story there? Or is this just whatever?

• 13:41Speaker 03

  I mean, I think like, I was talking to Chris and Elena and then Jake came in and like, we just shook hands. And I was like, oh, like, I saw this, I've seen this kid on YouTube. He was trolling the fuck out of Conor McGregor. That was hilarious. This guy is, this guy is awesome. Um, I mean, so I don't know if this is public or not, but, but fuck it. Like Connor's a big customer of HVMN. And obviously he's had, you know, kind of on, on record, had some issues with endurance. So we just knew that through HVMN, we have some exogenous key to technology that's been supporting folks in special operations, elite athletics. And Connor was, was a customer. And I was like, hey, like Jake is cool. Like I saw him like trying to want to pick a fight

• 14:26Speaker 03

  with some of the top elite boxers. Uh, let's just talk about human performance. And we just hit it off from there. And we realized that human performance was really just the start of what an overlapping interest was. And maybe Jake, you want to tell about like your three goals this year? Like you had a couple of goals that you wanted to accomplish this year and it's really overlapping.

• 14:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I told Jeff, I was like, I have three goals this year. One is to fight three times. The second is to start a VC fund and the third was to learn to do the splits.

• 14:58Sam Parr?

  Oh, same. The splits, the splits thing.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  Like this.

• 15:06Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Split, baby. What do you use it for that?

• 15:09Speaker 00

  Just a lot of stretching, just literally sitting in that position and trying to get lower and lower each time. It's not really rocket science.

• 15:18Sam Parr?

  Dude, I just signed up for a front splits course. I said, Jeff, shirtless pictures all the time of me doing a back bridge. Same, same. We could just talk about flexibility.

• 15:28Speaker 00

  Flexibility equals speed. So that's, that's, that's, uh, that's why I'm, that's one of my goals. But yeah, that's sort of how we connected. And Jeff was like, oh, I want to do, I want to do a fund as well. Like I've been wanting to do, I've been wanting to do it. And we just had mutual friends and just sort of hit it off right away with our, our goals and our network and our vision for what we could accomplish.

• 15:50Sam Parr?

  I want to ask you guys about some specific companies you're looking at and we could bring up some as well. But I wanted to ask you, um, so I've been doing angel investing a little bit now. So I made a great living starting and selling a company and I'm going to continue doing that. The thing about angel investing that is like, I'm like, do I want to spend a lot of time doing this? Is that you're not going to see any returns if ever for like six, seven, eight years. And I'm talking to Sean all the time. I'm like, Sean, like, you think this is a good use of time? Like this is kind of crazy. I don't know if it's, do you guys think you, uh, Jake, Jeff, do you guys think that is this going to be a needle mover for you guys financially? Or are you doing it because it's cool? It's

• 16:31Sam Parr?

  exciting? I mean, what, what's your motivation here? And don't say like, we want to help founders because I can't stand that, that answer. Cause I think that's mostly bullshit. You're not doing it. You're not going to get something.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  For me, it's having the finger on the pulse of what's going on. I think that's sort of what I've been best at over, over the years is being ahead of trends and knowing what's going on in the business world and what things are hot and new. Um, I can, I can leverage that a lot for, uh, you know, a lot, a lot of different reasons, both financially, both in my career and I can, uh, you know? Have for my opinion on what I think I should be putting money into. And then I think part of it's just legacy for me, you know, just wanting to be this generation's Jay-Z or Dr. Dre where, you know, they're a part of these massive billion dollar companies

• 17:24Speaker 00

  and do more for the celebrities around them than just be a rapper or just be a producer. You know, I want to be that bridge between the business world and the influencer world and be sort of the one that the influencer or celebrity who's known for that in this generation. And I feel like as a 24 year old, I'm sort of already starting to to lead that and and accomplish that.

• 17:50Sam Parr?

  Jake, something, something, let me ask a quick question. Something that I've always been curious about, and we've actually talked about hiring CEOs on here, but which is a little bit similar, but the Jay-Z thing interests me because he's got his hands in everything. So he just sold a significant part of title, I think, maybe the whole thing. He had the alcohol thing. And then he's had like, like, he's had hits, like, it seems like one hit every year, clothing, his record label. What I'm always curious about, and I actually just talked to a guy the other day who Jay-Z invested in his company. And I talked to the guy and I was like, was it like talking to him? And what I'm curious about is guys like Jay-Z and you're, if you're not there already, you're on your way there, but you probably are. What I'm always curious about is how do they structure the the office? So how are

• 18:35Sam Parr?

  they actually structuring the day to day? So like, there's this, this, the face. So Jay-Z's the face and he's got to do good at music, otherwise everything else fails. But he's got his hands in all this stuff. How are you actually structuring your day or structuring like the Jake Paul corporation in order to effectively do that?

• 18:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, for me, it's about it's building out team. And, you know, for me, it's a little bit different right now with being in training camp where like I'm traveling all over and training twice a day and so on and so forth. But my team comes, comes with me and we're sitting like, there was a couple more people here literally right now, but we're sitting around this table, you know, throughout the day, going through operations, checklist, to do's, you know, hitting deadlines. And so for me, I'm very much a part of the operations and and running things as as a CEO.

• 19:31Sam Parr?

  But are they structured as, what's your, do you have like a holding, like a Jake Paul Media LLC or something like that?

• 19:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, it's like, it's sort of like a parent company and then there's like, you know, the branches underneath it.

• 19:44Sam Parr?

  But then most, and most all the revenue is some YouTube, I imagine, related or some type of brand revenue, advertising revenue, and then you just have like maybe eight or five, I don't know how many people you said, and they just get a bi-weekly, a bi-monthly salary off that. So I mean, it's just run like a pretty straight-laced, normal media company? Is that how you have it set up?

• 20:05Speaker 00

  It's pretty much like a media company.

• 20:07Sam Parr?

  Got it. Yeah, I've always been curious about how those guys do that. Go ahead.

• 20:10Shaan Puri?

  Jake, you, you said something a second ago. You were like, you know, I've been good at having my finger on the pulse of where's culture going, where's attention going, where's business going? And so I'm curious, what, what are the trends that you're seeing right now? What are you excited about? You can either name kind of like categories or even better would be, you know, specific ideas that you're interested in or concepts or businesses that you're interested in. Where do you, where do you see opportunities that not everybody thinks it's obvious today, but you kind of see it a little bit ahead of the curve?

• 20:42Speaker 00

  Well, I think the hot one right now that sort of has evolved in the past two months is every celebrity trying to get involved in NFTs and digital assets or digital goods. I think a lot of people are doing it wrong though, and they're sort of just doing it as like a flash in the pan and don't necessarily see the vision of where NFTs and why digital assets are so important and where it can go. And then on top of that, things like the metaverse where we have, you know, these digital museums and digital real estate. That's, that's something that I think is, is super powerful right now. And then everyone sort

• 21:25Speaker 00

  of in the past week was talking about BitClout, you know, and how big that's become. And I think both of those things are sort of digital, digital, you know, businesses that are backed by influencers and celebrities or sort of built on the backbone of digital celebrities and artists. And they're both super interesting. I think BitClout, you know, we will hear about for five, 10, 15 years to come. And it's just such an interesting concept and decentralizing social media is such a powerful.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Powerful thing. So that those are two just like right off the bat that I'm that are very interesting to me right now.

• 22:09Sam Parr?

  Are you um, all right, let me show you guys a company. Let's talk about specific companies in that space. I'll tell you one that I'm looking at and you tell me your opinion. So Sean brought this to my attention. I got a meeting with them actually in like seven hours because they're based in Australia. So it's like Monday morning their time when they're meeting. But I just posted you guys the link. I don't know why the links always show up like that.

• 22:28Shaan Puri?

  It's called Zed Run. Have you heard of it?

• 22:30Sam Parr?

  Yeah, Zed Run, Z E D dot run. Have you guys heard of this?

• 22:35Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah, these horse NFTs.

• 22:37Sam Parr?

  It's crazy, dude. I've had friends that have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on buying these horses. It's so fascinating. Now, I think so I I'm gonna try and invest in them. But I think that there's a ton of reasons why this can't work. But I there maybe is a world where they become this like massive like, you know, uh, uh, I forget what the big fantasy sports fantasy draft or whatever it's called. Uh, there is a world where, yeah, DraftKings. There is a world where it becomes. Have you guys seen this?

• 23:05Shaan Puri?

  Can I tell you a little bit about this one? So yeah, for those who don't know, so Zed Run is basically a platform where you go on and you buy like a digital horse. So you buy a horse and the horse can be one of these like four different kind of like breeds. There's one breed that's known for like speed. There's another breed that's kind of like known for, let's say, like it's endurance. And so, you know, they like the four different kind of like classes, like almost like Gryffindor and Slytherin or whatever else, right? So four different the master breeds. So you go on, you buy a horse and then you can race your horse. Now, it's so it combines the fun of digital horse of like horse racing and betting on horses, which I've done it. Sam, I know you're from redneck country. You've definitely gone to

• 23:47Shaan Puri?

  horse horse tracks and bet on horses. So so betting on horses is super fun. But now you actually own the horse. Like in a normal horse race, the race happens and like five seconds later, you don't give a shit about, you know, horse number eight, you know, happy go lucky. It's it's like, I don't care about happy go lucky anymore. But in this case, it's your horse. And the better your horse does, the more other people want to breed with your horse. So these are the underlying technology is NFTs. But if you just take that away, it's a game, basically. But it's emerges like the best of like a Tamagotchi where you own your little pet. As well as horse racing where you actually race your pet and you can win money gambling on the horse races. And so, and so I know people that have made like three grand this week just

• 24:29Shaan Puri?

  because their horse was winning, was doing pretty well. And people started paying him to breed with that horse because he had a 25% win rate.

• 24:36Sam Parr?

  But how do you make your horse better or worse?

• 24:39Shaan Puri?

  It's just like a game of sort of random chance, right? So you, you sort of buy the horses at the auction and the horse has some probability of being like one of the like top horses. And then even then, like anything can happen in a race. So the race itself has some probability. So it's just a bunch of math equations that's deciding whether this horse is going to win that race or not, or be one of the like.

• 24:57Sam Parr?

  So it's just random?

• 24:58Shaan Puri?

  It's, it's random in the same way that like you open a pack of Panini basketball cards and you might get a Luca Doncic rookie card, or you open Pokemon and you might get a holographic Charizard or not. So there's just a set of probabilities where you get the common stock that are like, not that great, or you get the premium rare ones. And when you have that, it's this asset that just drives a bunch of cash flow because it'll win races, which wins you money, or people will breed with it and it'll win you money. And so it's this mix. And the people who will go heavy on it, there's this crew of guys, I've talked to them, that are like, the same guys that are the whales on the, all the daily fantasy sites. These guys bet, you know, millions of dollars. I was talking to a guy yesterday, this guy basically

• 25:37Shaan Puri?

  himself bets about, about $3 million a month on DraftKings and FanDuel. And so that's that same crew that became the cream of the crop, they moved to Top Shot and they basically bought all the Top Shot stuff, like all the Top Shot cards, when it was really cheap. And then they started.

• 25:53Sam Parr?

  Who was this guy?

• 25:53Shaan Puri?

  They started trading with each, I can't say his name, but they started trading with each other and they started buying each other's things up. And so all of a sudden the prices went up. And it's kind of like a little bit fugazi because these guys like, they're all buying from each other. So it's sort of like a wash trade. It's like, I'll pay you $5 million and you pay me $4 million back. And then I pay you $3 million. And it makes all the price, it makes the price of all of our assets that we bought dirt cheap, go up to the mass public. Now, the public just sees it and we talked about it on the pod, like, oh my God, $160 million has been traded on Top Shot. Oh my God, that one Top Shot is worth $4 million or whatever. And it's because these guys basically pumped the market themselves. And like this month, this month, Top Shot's like crashed, it's like down 70%. And all these

• 26:35Shaan Puri?

  guys have moved to Zed Run. And so like, the place to be right now is Zed because that's where you go buy some horses and the whales are all there betting against each other and driving up the prices.

• 26:46Sam Parr?

  So Jake and Jeff, would you write these guys a check based off of the three minutes of information you know about them?

• 26:52Speaker 03

  I think Jake and I like investing the picks and shovels of the space, right? So I think, Sean, I think you're very astute. I think there's a lot of inside dealing and it's a very similar dynamic with the fine arts market or like the nightclub, social clout, like, hey, I'm going to drop X hundreds of thousand dollars popping bottles and doing the model nightlife lifestyle. I think we believe that the market for this exists. And I think that for Gen Z and forward, it's just as cool to have digital stunts versus real life stunts. So I think enabling this economy, I think is a real market, just like Warhalls are a

• 27:37Speaker 03

  real market. I think Beeple's are like a real market in the sense that there is some liquidity in this space. But I think it's very hard to choose which specific art or artist is to be made. And I think where I think we have some alpha is there is going to be a similar infrastructure around the Christie's, the Sotheby's, the gallery owners, the tastemakers, the curators. There is a multi-billion dollar industry that chooses winners, right? Like who says at a Rothschild, $40,000 wine is worth $40,000, right? There's an ecosystem that chooses that wine or that chooses that artist to be the next winner.

• 28:16Sam Parr?

  So the question then is, Jake and Jeff, do you think that Zed, are you willing to bet, would you bet that this is going to be the next Kentucky Derby?

• 28:27Speaker 03

  I think, I think a lot of these games are hits driven businesses, right? I think it's like, just like how there are a bunch of mobile games that were super hot that like spiked and then crashed. I think these are like movie franchises, right? Like which ones are durable and which ones are flash in the pan, right? And I think there's a lot of self dealing with folks that come in early and exactly as you mentioned, like I think we've seen and looked at a lot of these deals, right? Like the Beeple art piece that sold for 69 million at Christie's, the buyer of Beeple had 2% of that stake, right? Like they were pumping up Beeple's art value, right? Like that is like well known within like the hardcore NFT art collection. Like it was a self. Deal dealt trade like he is pumping his own art pieces, right?

• 29:09Speaker 03

  It's almost like a like because they're not securities is probably not insider trading, not illegal, right?

• 29:14Shaan Puri?

  So let me give you a great.

• 29:16Sam Parr?

  Wait, hold on. Jake just had a grin. He's Jake's got something to say.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  No, I just say I wouldn't.

• 29:23Sam Parr?

  He slapped at something.

• 29:24Speaker 00

  Invest or not invest into a company based off of a three minute spiel from not the founders.

• 29:31Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, that's good. That was a trick question.

• 29:33Sam Parr?

  Good point.

• 29:36Shaan Puri?

  There was a great tweet I saw yesterday by somebody, I think their name is, I don't know how to say it, for dose by or something like that. But they said, here's the scenario. I have $2 million of ether. I create an NFT art piece. I pay an artist five, five grand. Hey, make me some NFT art. Cool. Now I use my $2 million of ether to buy my own NFT. Now I still have 2 million in ether because I bought my own NFT. The money went to me and I have an art piece that's valued at $2 million. So now I put that NFT back up on the market and let's say it sells for at a 90% discount. It sells for 200K, right? Oh my God, I took a, I took a big bath on this. Whoever bought it got a great deal. They bought a $2 million ether thing. This thing just sold for 2 million. They got it for 200K. Great.

• 30:21Shaan Puri?

  I now have 2.2 million in ether, right? And it's like, that is how simple the sort of self dealing can be in this space right now, because it's the wild west. Now that's, I gotta tell you, the same sort of shenanigans were taking place with Bitcoin really early on. And sometimes there is a fake it till you make it nature to these things. Right now it's happening on BitClout. So I was, I came on here, we're talking about BitClout a few weeks ago and everyone's making fun of me because they're like, oh, are you pumping this like, you know, is this a Ponzi scheme? Like, oh, you know, you know, it's like that scene from The Office where Michael's all excited and then Jim goes and draws a pyramid around the thing he's, he's, he's, you know, drawing out and it's like, yeah, that's a pyramid scheme. But I, you know, I sort of saw something different in BitClout. I think actually BitClout has a lot of potential.

• 31:05Shaan Puri?

  I pumped in 100K because I know that for all these platforms, they don't have to work in the long run for them to be successful. They can be successful in two other ways. One is they can just show the world that, hey, This is not maybe the end, the winner, but this is a good idea. And then somebody will come up with a V2 later and it'll be better. The second thing is if you get in early and there's a speculative run where people get excited and more people get involved, it doesn't have to like replace Facebook and replace Twitter for you to make a bunch of money. And so that was my view on BitClout. Jake, I'm heavy in your coin right now on BitClout. I'm just waiting for you to claim that baby because you're one of my. Yeah, why?

• 31:44Speaker 00

  I'm claiming in the next couple of days here. But it's so interesting. And again, it goes back to like being able to get the general public involved. For me, when I saw, when I'm looking at crypto, like I understand it more than the average person, I'm not an expert by any means, but I've been following it for years and investing money into it. But it's still a bit confusing and I don't know all the different coins and I have to like look and research their functions and all this stuff and figure out who's involved and if they're legit, if I want to put my money in. When BitClout came out, I was like, oh my God, this is perfect for me because I know who these influencers are, I know who these celebrities are, I know who their managers

• 32:28Speaker 00

  are, I know if they're actually smart, I know if they work hard, I know if their career will have longevity. And I think also for fans, you know, they can be like, oh my God, you know, I love this kid on TikTok, I think he's going to be the next big thing, but his BitClout's only $500, I can put in 500 and then who knows if they actually blow up. And so I think for the general public, BitClout is so much easier to understand, it's easier like entry point and it's just the start. And that's part of the reason why I'm bullish on it as well and think that it has a ton of potential and that it'll be around for a while.

• 33:10Speaker 00

  And you sort of have this direct access to your most loyal supporters and the people who believe that you will be successful. In the long run, you're able to connect with them, message them and see who's backing you.

• 33:25Shaan Puri?

  So can I just say one thing on that? So I joined the thing like three weeks ago and, you know, was excited initially and put a bunch of money in and I've made a bunch of money on it. But now I'm, I guess my thoughts of something has clicked in my head where I now get, I can now better articulate why I think this idea, whether it's in BitCloud or some other project that comes up two years from now, this idea is never going to go away. And I'll explain why. Because a lot of people said, okay, what's the point? Why would I buy this coin? Why would I buy Jake Paul's coin? I want to buy Jeff's coin. What's the, what's the purpose of it? And here's how I would explain it now. Everybody sort of gets and actually kind of likes things like Patreon where it's like, well, I like to support a creator I like, right? So I want to give them money so they can keep creating content.

• 34:10Shaan Puri?

  And Patreon has this like feel-good vibe to it where I'm just, you know, sort of donating and I get back, I get some kind of access, right? So when I go, when I pay on OnlyFans or Patreon or Substack, I pay for access. I pay for stuff. And so I give you money and you give me content. And what BitCloud does is it takes that same trade, but it makes it even better for the person giving the money because it says, hey, this time when you pay, when you buy my coin, yes, you get access, you get content, you get exclusives, you get more from me and you're helping me do what I do because now I can make a living doing this. But if you were early, if you think that more people in the future will want that same access, you're going to not just like pay for stuff and, you know, it's money going

• 34:53Shaan Puri?

  out, you're actually going to make money because you're, the coin's going to appreciate in value. And so you as a early tastemaker get to, like if I knew Jake Paul was going to be Jake Paul, actually Jake, I saw you, we were at a party together. You were coming, you were leaving, I was coming at a house party like five years ago, four, five years ago. And I remember you were walking around with a backpack on. I just remember thinking, why is this guy got a backpack? And they're like, oh, that's Jake Paul. I thought, oh yeah, I've seen some of this guy's stuff on Vine. I think this guy's great. If I could have bought your coin then by being an early, identifying earlier on that, hey, this guy's going to be big, not only would I've got the access, pay for content, but I would have made 5X, 10X my money by believing in you early. So it takes the concept of a thousand true fans, which was like a, like a 20-year-old concept that a lot of people talk about.

• 35:37Shaan Puri?

  Hey, if you can get a thousand people to pay you 10 bucks a month, you can make a living as an artist. A thousand true fans is gone. Now it's 100 true believers. 100 people who actually invest in your coin. Not only are they enough for you to make your living, but they will get rich by being early in YouTube. And so I think that's the one thing that will stick around. I don't know who's behind BitCloud. I don't know if it's a scam. I don't know if they'll run away with our money. I don't know if it'll get hacked. Nobody can guarantee you those things, but I can guarantee you this idea that the curators, the tastemakers, the people who identify talent early as a fan, and they are gonna get, it's like buying Amazon stock early now. They're gonna, they're gonna make financial rewards in addition to being an early supporter. That idea is never going away, and that's what BitCloud brought to the world.

• 36:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I hear there's this like legit, I don't know if it's like an open secret now, but like there's legit people behind and like legit operators.

• 36:25Sam Parr?

  Yeah, it's Chamath and Andreessen.

• 36:28Shaan Puri?

  Well, they backed it.

• 36:28Sam Parr?

  It's public. Yeah, they backed it.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like the operator, the founder is like a legit guy who's raised like hundreds of million, like $150 million of previous crypto projects. So I think like the team is like gonna be reasonable. It's underwritten by like reasonable people. Yeah, I mean, I think the long-term scheme is that like for Twitter, Instagram, right? Like Jake offered so much friggin' value to those platforms, but he has to monetize off-platform.

• 36:53Shaan Puri?

  Jake, how much money? How much value do you think you created? Just give me a wild-ass guess, you know, a wag, wild-ass guess. How much value did you create for Vine, for Twitter, for YouTube? What would you put? If you were throwing a number out there, how much value was the Paul, were the Paul brothers for those platforms?

• 37:12Speaker 00

  Oh, easy, over like billions, billions of dollars in media value. Yeah, market cap for sure. Hands down, every day of the week.

• 37:26Shaan Puri?

  So let's, let's take the conservative angle. Let's, let's take it most conservatively. Let's say you only added $100 million over the last 10 years. I think that's an extremely conservative estimate, right? Or, or we can go, we can just say 100 million. Roughly, right now, what do you think? What percentage of the value that's created do YouTubers capture? Do they capture like 1% of the value they're creating? 10% like, how, how one-sided is the deal in your opinion?

• 37:54Speaker 00

  It's, it's very one-sided and I think that's why you see, you know, YouTube and creators not as, you know, in, in sync as, as before, because.

• 38:10Speaker 00

  They're finding ways to go off platform and make money like OnlyFans, BitCloud, their own subscription platforms. So it's not the same ecosystem that it was before, but even before it was still very, very lopsided. And, you know, we're bringing all of this attention to YouTube and we're bringing those eyeballs. Without that content there from influencers, you know, the fans aren't necessarily going to come back all the time, I think. And I think that's a value you can't even really put a, put a price tag on.

• 38:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, just look at it from like a Netflix model, right? Netflix spends billions of dollars. Disney Plus spends billions of dollars on content. And then YouTube basically takes, gets it for free and then kicks an ad revenue shit split to, to the creators.

• 39:00Sam Parr?

  So what?

• 39:00Speaker 03

  Like, I just don't think it's a stable equilibrium, just from like a, like Economics 101. Like, that will have to change in the medium, long term. And I think that's part of our thesis as antis.

• 39:13Sam Parr?

  So what do you call that? What do you call this genre of companies? Companies that basically help people like Jake or, or us make more money versus just making, uh, you know, a tiny bit of money from ad revenue. What, what do you, what do you call this, like, niche?

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think, I think people are deeming it creator economy, passion economy. I mean, it's just like, I think there's a new way. I, I think, like, what is the ultimate commodity? It's time. What is the best proxy for time? It's money. What's the second best proxy for time? Attention. Right? Like, so I think it's like, literally time is what everyone has limited resource of. Money buys you a lot of time because you can pay people to do stuff for you. And then attention, right? Like, attention is very, very scarce. And I think what creators and influencers offer is a lot of attention.

• 40:02Sam Parr?

  So let's, let's, let's actually talk about some of those companies that you guys are looking at. I know, I mean, I know past ones. Jake said that he helped build or was very tightly associated with Fanjoy, which, um, I, if I had a guess, I, I just, just from what I read online, I would imagine that they're doing north of a hundred million dollars a year. And, well, they're for sure doing north of a hundred million in gross merchandise revenue, um, gross merchandise sales. Are they doing more than a hundred million in like net revenue? I'm not sure, actually. If I would bet, I would say 50 or 60.

• 40:34Shaan Puri?

  Explain what it is for people who don't know. What's, what's Fanjoy?

• 40:37Sam Parr?

  Jake, how do you explain Fanjoy in the easiest way?

• 40:39Speaker 00

  I'm technically co-founder on the books of Fanjoy, but also investor and like just been very involved in strategy from day one with the CEO, Chris. But essentially Fanjoy is the best place for influencers slash celebrities slash athletes to go for their merchandising, creation, shipping, fulfillment and fan experience. So, you know, let's say there's a big influencer and they need merchandising. Fanjoy is the best place to go. They take care of design, fulfillment, shipping, customer service, the website.

• 41:23Speaker 00

  And it's basically A to Z one stop shop.

• 41:28Sam Parr?

  What do you, what's going to be the, how does Fanjoy and someone like one of the massive t-shirt companies or something like that buys them for hundreds of millions of dollars?

• 41:39Speaker 00

  And I think just continuing to scale and scale and bring more influencers and, you know, doing unique things like disrupting retail in many ways because, you know, when some of these influencers, we've seen them go into retail in different places like Zoomies or Target even, they're going crazy because their fans can actually go to the store and buy physical products. So I think there's, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of value in that. And then just getting super smart around the actual product and the customer acquisition.

• 42:18Speaker 00

  And there's always going to be an influencer, a celebrity or an athlete that's super popular at the time. And so the business obviously continues to grow and grow and grow.

• 42:32Sam Parr?

  What other products are you seeing in the space that are interesting that most of our listeners won't even know are a thing? I mean, Big Cloud, we've talked about, but that's something that a lot of people don't even know.

• 42:43Shaan Puri?

  Companies that help creators.

• 42:45Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Monetize better than just plain advertising.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  I mean, maybe just like, we don't want to like scoop some announce some investments, but we already started making some investments. And I think we've looked at novel ways to do commerce, right? Like, I think SMS conversational commerce is very, very interesting.

• 43:10Speaker 03

  You know, Sam, you've been awesome to kick over some interesting deals.

• 43:13Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I could tell you. So I sent Jake and Jeff this company called Tales. And what it does is, the reason it interests me is there's already companies in China doing this that have like 50, 70, 80 billion dollars in market cap. And Tales is a platform where an author can upload the text of their past books. And through a bunch of different technology, it turns into an interactive book, which you can sell for more money and make the author more money. And that's kind of interesting. I think that there's a ton of reasons why that business can fail. But there's a few reasons why it could be quite massive. And so I invested in it for the few reasons I think it could be big. I think I sent that to you, Sean.

• 43:52Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I saw that one too. So Jake, let me ask you, let me ask the question a different way. The people who listen to this podcast are like makers of some kind of product engineers. Everybody from, we have like execs at Twitch, or YouTube, or Facebook that listen to this podcast, Twitter. And then there's like, you know, the 18 year old college kid who listens to this because he loves getting ideas about like, different things that they could go build. And so a lot of them, the, one of the biggest DMs I get is just like, hey, like, do you have an idea? Or what do you think of this idea? I can make anything. I just don't know where, I don't know what the problems are that people have. Because imagine, you're a 20 year old kid. It's the apps that those people build are typically the apps that solve

• 44:36Shaan Puri?

  problems of 20 year old kids, but they're not, because they don't know what problems that Jake Paul has. And same thing with execs at these companies. They don't always understand what are the problems that an influencer like you would have. So what are some pain points? Or like, if you could say kind of like, man, I wish somebody would make it easier for me to do X. Or, man, it really sucks that, you know, I'll just throw out some examples while you think, because I know that's a tough question. But like, you know, I wanted to buy a house. And like, it sucks you can't get a mortgage, even though I got millions of dollars, I have no W2 income.

• 45:03Speaker 00

  Okay, go for it. Yeah, so I, I think in this space, there are very few people who are great at just social media in general, from understanding it, knowing what's going on, knowing the players involved, being able to create content in the space, edit videos, graphic design, you know, understanding Twitter, being able to run a Twitter account. Every, everyone I meet ever is like, I need a social media person. I need someone who can edit, film, understand, post, do the captions, tweet, make the TikToks, come up with the videos. I need ID, like every

• 45:44Speaker 00

  single company, every single influencer needs that person. And there's, where are they? I don't know. I, I've had to, it, it took me long, long, long time. My, my, John right here, he's my guy. He's like, I'm right here. But, um, but it, it's so hard to find them. It's so hard to find them. And so I wish there was a place where I could just go and be like, who's the best social media people? I think that would blow up instantly.

• 46:16Sam Parr?

  We just went through this.

• 46:17Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, we, we just.

• 46:18Sam Parr?

  We.

• 46:20Shaan Puri?

  So, so JP.

• 46:21Sam Parr?

  So what's that look like?

• 46:22Shaan Puri?

  We just had a fun, fun version of this where like, you said, like, so my studio looks, you can say it, Jake, I look pretty legit right now, right? Got good lighting, got good audio, got it, got it, got a good camera. I didn't know how the fuck to do that. And so these guys basically flew out to my house and built me the studio in my garage. And they did the same thing for Sam. And then they said, great, we're going to take your podcasts and the videos from this, and we're going to chop it up and make awesome social clips, and just have them ready for you on a platter to post. And then some guys are posting them for us. So now we have this machine behind us that's taking the raw content and turning it into something awesome. It took us a year to find that, and we were just lucky that we found it. So let's just riff on that idea for a second. It seems like there's two ideas that come to mind. You tell me if either of these are exciting. One is a way to, like a job, like a, basically like a place to go hire, like, you know,

• 47:07Shaan Puri?

  LinkedIn is too broad, you know, Upwork is just too random, a place to go, a marketplace where you could find trusted content creator, like allies, digital, like, kind of like editors, um, social media people, graphic designers, stuff like that. So like a place to go find high quality people like that, like a marketplace.

• 47:24Sam Parr?

  Well, do you know, Jake, do you know Angie's List? We need Jake's List.

• 47:28Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly.

• 47:28Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 47:29Speaker 00

  But the, the thing is though, is like, A good creative artist editor slash videographer isn't gonna go and fucking make a LinkedIn profile. Like, how do you get these people who are actually good and like, super talented to maybe be on one of these, uh, one of these, these sites? I don't, I don't know. And a lot of them are young.

• 47:58Shaan Puri?

  So, so one company is called Dribbble where drip, like, great designers didn't want to go to LinkedIn and just say, "I'm a great designer." And even if you went to LinkedIn, you couldn't tell if they're a great designer or not. What Dribbble did was it let them upload little shots. So it's like while they're in Photoshop, if they're doing something cool, they kind of take a screenshot, upload it to Dribbble, and other designers see it. So it kind of became this social network for designers to share their, their coolest stuff they were making. It's like our portfolio. And then, but, once they got everybody building their portfolio on here and sharing it with each other, then it became the best way to hire designers. Cause now you could go, just go browse their portfolios and they got higher paying jobs. So that's one angle of attack. The other is Lambda School. So I invested in this company called Lambda School that basically was training people to become software engineers. Like, every tech company needs to hire engineers. It's, you know, like, every

• 48:42Shaan Puri?

  influencer needs a social person who's making, you know, editing and posting stuff. Every tech company needs more engineers. And so Lambda School was like, yo, college is not doing it. We need to make a nine-month bootcamp where we'll make you like from zero to ready to be hired. And we only make money if you get hired. So like, we're fully aligned with you. If we can't get you a high-paying job as an engineer, then we failed. We don't make any money. It's on us. And Lambda School is gonna be like a billion-dollar-plus company now. You could make potentially a Lambda School for whatever, content creation or media creation.

• 49:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, let's just put it out there. Like, I'm sure all of us would invest in a company that would like prime up people that doing social media management. I think, I mean, I'm talking to Sam Trung, one of your lead writers for this, for H3MN. I think there is a scarcity in this type of skillset.

• 49:31Sam Parr?

  But, but, but Jake, what are the solutions to, alright, so somehow we got to the solution of like some type of job board issue, like vetted thing. Uh, the other like obvious one is, well, we're just gonna build up an agency where we hire thousands of people. That, that actually probably could work. It would be kind of a pain in the ass and not that exciting. What other solutions are there that you would, that you propose for this?

• 49:55Speaker 00

  May, uh, I guess it would be maybe like a...

• 50:03Speaker 00

  A place where the people could put their highlights, yeah, maybe like their, their videos, but then there maybe their understanding of, of social media, like a red, almost if someone had a resume spot that was more robust for this specific type of thing.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  But again, it's difficult.

• 50:28Sam Parr?

  It's a, cause it's a challenge. This is a challenging thing. I, I, yeah, I hear this problem. I have this problem as well where I'm like, I just want to hire someone who I could just say, just do it. Uh, it is, but so I hear you. I'm, and I've, I haven't come up for the good solution. I just looked at Fiverr. Do you guys know, you guys definitely know Fiverr? Uh, they're, they're, maybe you could do just a more exclusive Fiverr. They have a pretty good market cap, $8 billion publicly traded. It's pretty fascinating.

• 50:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. But I think, I think to your, to Sean's point, I think Lambda has like a good model where there is, I think, best practices that some, you know, you know, someone like, you know, you know, John, who, who works with, with Jake is like literally teaching, curating, like just giving the best practices of what like a top tier, top five creators are actually doing with their setup, right? Like your guys' setups are beautiful, right? Like why isn't that replicated across everywhere? But I would pay to just have that just set up for me.

• 51:26Sam Parr?

  So would you guys invest in that? Would you basically just launch Jake like a, I mean, you wouldn't do this, but maybe someone would, uh, for you, a Jake, a Jake, like a, like a, like a so, some cooler name than social media school, but a social media, uh, you know, like a school like that?

• 51:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I've, I've tried, I've dabbled, I've dabbled in it. I've dabbled in trying to teach kids about social media and how to do it and like so on and so forth. And what I found was, is that just people weren't dedicated, honestly. Um, and it was a lot of, it was a lot of shit and lot, lots of hours of content and me explaining and, um, it just, I think people don't understand how hard of a job this is and how it's 24/7 and there's so many different, you know, parts to it. Um, so I've tried to educate.

• 52:24Sam Parr?

  I actually think what would be far more, what, what I think could be. What I think could be interesting is if we created a like a where it's not geared towards young kids, it would have to be geared specifically towards companies and what you'd do is charge 10 to 15 grand and you, your employees would go to it and you would have recorded talks by Jake Paul, by Logan, but then you'd also be like, all right, now we're going to talk to these editors, they're going to show you how they do it. And it's a three week, no, you do a six week thing, you meet twice weekly for three hours apiece and you just have a curriculum and it's just like a bootcamp. I'm pretty sure you could build at least a $10 million a year company doing just that. And potentially it could become much larger, like a larger, like a Miami school for advertising, which is like a hundred

• 53:07Sam Parr?

  million dollar a year company that's been around for 50, 100 years, whatever, yada, yada, yada. You probably could do, you could probably get quite wealthy doing just that.

• 53:14Speaker 03

  Well, I think Antifund would invest in something like that if there's a credible operator, right? I think Lambda showed the path for software engineering, right? And I think you're exactly right. This is not like the trained kids, like 18, 19 year olds that are just like dabbling around. They just want to kind of like hang out and get affiliate with Jake Paul. This is like, hey, we want to train legit social media managers for top 500 enterprises. I think that there's a clearly a demand, again, like the business I've worked with, like we would pay for that.

• 53:45Sam Parr?

  And can I?

• 53:46Speaker 03

  So I think it's like, if you guys chip in, like we can, like, and if the audience here, there's, there's entrepreneurs out there.

• 53:52Shaan Puri?

  Dude, every time we put out there, hey, here's an idea, like anytime we put out an idea that says, hey, I have this problem or here, I think there's a genuine problem in the world and somebody could fill it, maybe doing this, maybe doing that. And I would back to you if you wanted to do this. Do we get incredible operators coming out the woodwork? So when they hit us up after this, I will share, you know, we'll share it amongst the four of us. And if, if somebody's legit trying to do this, great, we'll, we'll go for it. Like Jake, I don't know if you saw this, but we did a, a mini SPAC where I just straight up said, hey, there's all these little, small like SaaS companies out there that are, you know, they're, they're not doing great, but they're not horrible. And I said, instead of going to business school and wasting 200 grand in two years of your life, I will gift you one of these businesses. I'll buy you a business for five

• 54:34Shaan Puri?

  or 10 grand. That's making, I don't know, a thousand dollars of profit per month right now. And And you run it. You'll learn more from this than you will from business school. And a bunch of other people on Twitter chimed in. They're like, I'm in for 5K. And so it kept going and now, and we basically gifted this kid. He's a college senior. We gifted him $100,000 business. It was a Shopify app. And it's a Shopify app that makes, it's already profitable and the person behind it hadn't run it. And so this is like a new education model, right? Like this guy is not, you know, instead of going to business school, he's going to get to run a business. And for us, we get a kickback if this guy's able to grow it. And if he's not, no problem. Like the business is already profitable. So there's already kind of like a floor on how bad this can go for us.

• 55:15Shaan Puri?

  But we're, we're pretty ballsy with the stuff we put out and people step up when we do. So I'm curious, is there any other pain points? Or like, dude, somebody should do X or I wish somebody would solve this problem for, for me or for people like me. Um, is there anything else that comes to mind? I'm curious.

• 55:32Speaker 00

  I'm trying to think of like right, uh, right off the, the top of my head.

• 55:40Sam Parr?

  I can bring one up if you, if you don't have one as well.

• 55:42Speaker 00

  Like, it's crazy cause like to actually sit there and think about like this, I would, I would wanna like, put it out on Twitter more. And maybe I need to become better at, uh, putting out some of these ideas. Like guys, I, we need help with this on Twitter. Um, it's obviously fight week, so I'm just posting all this stuff about the fight. But I think, I think I need to get better at, uh, posting like this business sort of stuff on my, on my Twitter and utilizing it to, to capture and engage audience. Because I have ideas like this that come up all the time, but I'm just like, oh, no one's ever gonna do this.

• 56:19Sam Parr?

  I think you'd be surprised. I think particularly if guys like Jeff or me or Sean eventually start like sharing it. And then you start, you're gonna start capturing like, you know, our side of the world, which you already are. But, uh, I, I think you'd be surprised at who would pounce on some of these stuff, some of these things.

• 56:35Speaker 00

  I understand.

• 56:36Sam Parr?

  Can I, can I bring up one quick one really quick? Cause I know we're, we're getting close to time. I, I, again, the reason why this is interesting is because I've talked to Jeff a ton about this. And it's also interesting because Jake's younger than us, but is like, I guess technically you are a professional athlete. And then Sean doesn't care about any of this, but I think he's the ideal customer. So here it is. The average 22 year old male today, this is a tweet that went viral the other day. The average 22 year old male today has roughly the same testosterone levels as a 67 year old had in the year 2000. The average testosterone level has fallen close to 50% in the last two decades. Pretty wild. A company that I've been looking at, and I actually passed on them, and I kind of regret on it, is called Peak. So I actually, it's called Get Peak Today.

• 57:21Sam Parr?

  And so the idea here, and I want to hear what Jake, kind of like you're kind of speaking on behalf of like the, a little bit younger folks. Sean, you're speaking on behalf of people who maybe should consider taking this, but you don't. And, and I do take it. So basically TRT, testosterone replacement therapy. It's a incredibly scammy industry. This company, Get Peak, their URL is GetPeakToday.com. I think they're doing something like 15 million in recurring revenue in the first 18 months. What do you guys think about, about this industry, TRT? Basically, what we're explaining, listeners, is just fucking injecting yourself with a needle with testosterone, basically a PED, every...

• 58:02Speaker 03

  Well, I actually, yeah, maybe, I actually have some experience here as a biohacker, interested in human formans. I actually did an angel investment in a company called Maximus. Keith Raboy and Formation A led the seed round, and they're just rolling out of Alpha. The founder CEO is Cam Sepa, who is a UCSF-

• 58:21Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I know him.

• 58:22Speaker 03

  -trained clinical psychologist. So he's doing some interesting work there, exactly solving that problem. I think it is an underspoken issue where, yeah, exactly, like literally the average man today, their testosterone levels is like their grandfathers of 30, 40 years ago. Is that, I mean, we can go down all sorts of rabbit holes that might not necessarily be a PC to talk about, but it is a very interesting where T levels are just dropping.

• 58:51Sam Parr?

  Have you explored this, Jake, as you've gotten into athletics? Have you explored like your, your T levels at all?

• 58:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I've definitely, I've definitely been tested for it, and obviously like mine aren't terrible like that, but it's, it's definitely, it's definitely something that I think men talk about even at this age already. Like, it's starting to become this, this bigger conversation that, that needs to, that needs to be fixed. Obviously, there's a massive problem there. I think obviously due to our diet, our food, our chemicals, our pesticides, all that bullshit is, obviously has to do with it.

• 59:30Sam Parr?

  And thirty, or when you're thirty, thirty-five-ish and you're no longer, and you no longer, like, you know, are you tested by USADA? I imagine you are, right?

• 59:38Speaker 00

  Oh, USADA, one of those, yeah. I don't even know which one it is.

• 59:43Sam Parr?

  Yeah, so like, when it's no longer an issue of using a performance-enhancing drug, would you be adverse to injecting yourself weekly for the rest of your life with testosterone? And how do you think some of your peers would feel about that?

• 59:57Speaker 00

  I think they would do it for sure. I mean, if it's gonna increase your life performance and your libido and your muscles and all of that stuff, then for sure. You know, especially, it's only gonna get worse as you get older. And so if it's already this big of a problem in our generation, then, of course, you know, and it's, this is something that, again, is becoming a bigger conversation. And I think hair loss and all of this stuff are all part of that.

• 1:00:28Sam Parr?

  Maybe I'll invest in this company just because Jake said that his peers would do it.

• 1:00:32Shaan Puri?

  We should incubate or seed this company, dude. This is, uh, this is one, I think you said this on like the first brainstorm we ever did this, and this is still, I think, probably the best idea you've brought to the table. You peaked on day one of this TRT subscription company because you see what Hims and Ro have done, where they took the same thing, a taboo topic like erectile dysfunction, or, you know, early balding, and they basically created a top, like, consumer brand that built trust, and they went crazy building a D to C brand on, you know, through Facebook and advertising around that topic. And this is, I think, an even better business because it is, I think the market is actually larger for something like this. I think some people are scared to inject.

• 1:01:16Sam Parr?

  I passed on this, on the seed round. On the seed round, I passed on this company. And I was like, and now I see their numbers now, and I've got so much frustration.

• 1:01:23Shaan Puri?

  This type of thing, it's not even just like a one winner take all. Like, Hims and Roman are both multi-billion dollar companies, both fighting in the US. I just invested in, you know, Roman for Canada, because it's like, the same, if it works in the US, it's also gonna work in Canada. It's not gonna not work there. And- And you need a very different like kind of legal and logistical setup to do it in Canada and these other guys are doing it better. So I think that it's not like there's one company that's just going to win here, especially if you had the power of distribution behind it, like if Jake and Logan or whoever, if they invested in something like this and had it had skin in the game to be able to bring awareness to this crazy fact, right? A company only needs one insight to start. And if that one insight is the average 25

• 1:02:08Shaan Puri?

  year old today has the same testosterone as their grandfather did at 67, like it's dropped that dramatically, like that one insight alone, you can go start a company on, you'll figure the rest out as you do it. You don't need anything else to get started.

• 1:02:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I think that's a thesis behind anti-fun. I think it's like, how do investors help, right? It's like, and like, again, you guys are all operators too, like, who are the best people on your cap table? It's like, can they make introductions? Can they give you attention? Can they give you customers? And it's like, and I think, like, you guys, I would invest in your funds because, like, you guys have channels, you guys have people that actually listen to you, you guys are sharp, you guys get a lot of deal flow. And I think, in some sense, you know, we're starting a little bit behind in terms of our fund status, but like, obviously Jake and I are personal investors and have some track record there. But I think people like us, I think, will have outsized returns compared to the middling VC funds who are run by people in the previous generation

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  who don't get the strategy that we're trying to execute here.

• 1:03:08Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I buy that. Okay, we should.

• 1:03:10Sam Parr?

  Well, I know we're coming up on time. Sean, you want to, you want to wrap it or up?

• 1:03:13Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I think we should. How do people get more? So where do they follow you guys? How do they invest in anti-fun? Watch the fight? Plug, plug everything you want to plug for people who have listened this far.

• 1:03:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I think in terms of the fun information, we're on Angel List. I think we're the top featured rolling fund right now. So Angel List, search for anti-fun, we're there. We have profiles on Instagram and Twitter. You can find Jake at Jake Paul. You can find me at Jeffrey Wu on all the standard social channels. And then watch Jake's fight. I don't know.

• 1:03:48Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:49Sam Parr?

  Dude, on your, on your, on your angel fund.

• 1:03:54Sam Parr?

  And I love bullet point number four on your angel fund, rolling fund, sales page. What is it?

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  Is the earth is flat?

• 1:04:02Sam Parr?

  You're the earth is flat.

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's, I think it just shows a little bit of the personality where I think,

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  yeah, I think it goes back to the thesis that like, if time is the ultimate commodity, what are the proxies of that? And I think it's like, if you can command capital or if you can command attention, those are like the most powerful assets that today in today's economy.

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  And hopefully we can execute and utilize what we think we have some advantage here to return, you know, returns for ourselves and our LPs.

• 1:04:35Sam Parr?

  Good.

• 1:04:35Shaan Puri?

  Hold on.

• 1:04:37Sam Parr?

  Go ahead, Sean.

• 1:04:37Shaan Puri?

  Okay, we can wrap it up. Jeff, Jake, thanks for coming. Jake, good luck at the fight. I think you're gonna win. Sorry, Ben, if you're listening. I just think that Jake cares more and is gonna try harder to win. I think Ben is okay with the decision and because of that, I think he's gonna lose rounds. That's my prediction. It's on the record. Sam, you're gonna shave your head. That's, that's how I think this all plays out. Thanks for coming on, guys. We should, we should do this again. We should do this again in like, I don't know, six months or a year and we'll see what you guys are investing in. We'll keep shooting the shit and talking business.

• 1:05:06Sam Parr?

  Yeah, a quick debrief. So I still feel like crap and I don't know if I told you, but we, I was in St. Louis when this happens, which is 13 hours away. We were supposed to meet with Jake on like a Wednesday or Thursday or something. Something changed. We had to do it on Sunday. He told us like 24 hours in advance. So I just drove back here and I got home at like, I drove through the night. I got home about 5:00 AM.

• 1:05:32Shaan Puri?

  Oh shit. I had no idea.

• 1:05:34Sam Parr?

  And then we did, we did the podcast at like, I forget which time, noon, maybe?

• 1:05:40Sam Parr?

  I was exhausted. I'm still exhausted. So I was, I hope, I hope it went over okay.

• 1:05:44Shaan Puri?

  Well, yeah, I hope it turned out okay. I know that when we were talking to him live, there was like a little bit of a lag or like a delay just on his connection or something. And so that made it really hard. Maybe just remember like how much more fun this is to do in person than online. Like, I don't care how good these tools get. I don't care what Zoom is worth. Like, doing the podcast in person is so much better than doing these online.

• 1:06:08Sam Parr?

  Speaking of which, although actually, let's talk about Jake. Do you want to say anything? I don't really have much to say. I thought it went okay. It went fine.

• 1:06:13Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:06:14Sam Parr?

  It was fine.

• 1:06:14Shaan Puri?

  I would say.

• 1:06:15Sam Parr?

  It wasn't great. It wasn't bad. It was fine.

• 1:06:17Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, he, you know, he was like, you know, he took it seriously. I thought he did a good job. He was trying to like,

• 1:06:24Shaan Puri?

  you know, he brought, he brought like, he brought it to the table, what he, you know, what he had to bring to the table, which was like, yeah, here's how I think about my business. Here's what I'm focused on. Here's some things that other influencers I think don't get right, but here's what I think I'm doing better, or you know, here's my, here's how I think about it. So I thought that was all good. I thought a bunch, I thought I was a little bit disappointed in a couple of things. One was Jeff's great. I love Jeff. But also there was questions where I want like tougher questions for Jake that Jeff would take for him. And I thought.

• 1:06:53Sam Parr?

  Oh, yeah. Jeff was totally blocking for him.

• 1:06:55Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, he was blocking, which I think you gotta do if, you know, if that's your relationship, you're like the business guy in the partnership. So you're like, okay, I'll handle that question. It's kind of like, but it's the same thing. Like, you know, if you ask the CEO question and the PR person answers, you're like, no, no, I don't want to hear your answer. Like, I know your answer.

• 1:07:11Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:11Shaan Puri?

  I want to hear that person's answer. And so that's the only thing where it felt like there were sometimes where I was like, shit, like Jeff, I know you have a good, smart answer for all this. I want to hear what Jake thinks about that. Cause you know, he's the interesting personality, frankly, of like, you know, of why I was excited to do that was like, I wonder how this dude who's totally different than me thinks about this type of stuff, whose life is totally different, right? You're one of the biggest YouTubers in the world. And, um, you know, you're going to have a different perspective than like me and Sam and Jeff, who's, we're all kind of like the same, like, kind of like tech entrepreneur.

• 1:07:46Sam Parr?

  What, um, how much do you think Jake Paul, so like, I asked him about the Jake Paul, like how it's set up. And so basically there's probably a, he kind of said, there's like a Jake Paul LLC, which probably most of the revenue is like YouTube ad or brand revenue. And then, um, then there's a variety of like, I bet minor things. So maybe his investments or something like that. But how much do you think the Jake Paul media company earns a year in revenue and profit?

• 1:08:16Shaan Puri?

  Ah, man, it's hard to say. I, okay, let's, let's just take it.

• 1:08:19Sam Parr?

  I didn't bring this up to him, even, even though this is something everyone wants to know, including myself. I didn't feel, I wasn't on that level.

• 1:08:25Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, we're not tied like that yet. Um, okay. So like, if you just take YouTube, I'm sure people can do, you know, on the fly here, I'm not going to do the back of the envelope. Like, how many monthly views does this video get? Okay, then you assume a $5 CPM for his YouTube ad, you know, rev share. And then you say, okay, he has these sponsors. I think they're going to be seven figure, you know, I would say his media side of things should be bringing in about $10 million a year. That'd be my guess.

• 1:08:53Sam Parr?

  I was thinking a little bit more, but give or take, give or take, uh, no, 15 to 20.

• 1:09:00Shaan Puri?

  So I would say that's the, that's the media side, which is his YouTube cut plus his.

• 1:09:04Sam Parr?

  His issue is that he's not entirely brand safe, um, which there's no judgment there. I'm just, that's probably the truth.

• 1:09:11Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. Uh, and then I would say the boxing stuff is probably going to bring in about the same because they own a lot more of that. So even though the total pie is less, you know, they don't have, YouTube takes such a big cut that I think, you know, comparatively, I think his boxing stuff, I think if they're smart, they're doing it like Floyd Mayweather, where they are the promoter. Um, so they're the promoter and they're the talent. And they put on the show and then they, they cut a licensing deal with Triller, whoever to split the like pay-per-view buys on top of that. So I would guess their boxing stuff is going to bring in like 5 million to 10 million also. And then on top of that is like anything else, you know, which is like maybe t-shirts, maybe merch, maybe, maybe other stuff. So I, I feel like the whole.

• 1:09:56Sam Parr?

  I bet you they, I bet you, I bet you him and his brother sell collectively 20 to 30 million a year in merch.

• 1:10:03Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, which is insane. I think his brother does, does more. Uh, I think his brother is a bigger enterprise than, than Jake is because. That his brother has the impulsive podcast, which I think is like the number one podcast, you know, or like it's like top 10 or something like that because if you include like the YouTube views they get. So I think that podcast has turned into a big thing for them. And then Logan also has like Maverick as his brand and like his merch brand or whatever. And I think that that's like a stronger brand overall and has like a larger following than than what Jake has. That's my guess, but I'm not like, I don't follow them professionally.

• 1:10:39Sam Parr?

  Me neither, but I bet you he spends a ton of money. If I had a bet, I would bet that the difference between like Jake Paul person and Jake Paul media is probably quite like every every expense is probably media expense or the company expense. So it's not the same or not not really different. I bet you he spends at least half a million a month.

• 1:10:57Shaan Puri?

  That's a lot. Yeah, but he's got his crew, right? It's like all celebrities. You have a bossy that rolls with you. It's like, all right, we're flying here, you know, like they took a private jet after our podcast. He got on a private jet and flew to wherever they're going to do the fight for Fight Week and because he's got, you know, a big boxing match on Saturday. So, you know, the one thing I was going to ask you is, you know, whenever somebody meets a celebrity, I always ask, what's he, you know, what's he like? What's she like? Which is, it doesn't really matter what you say. It's like the conversation is usually not typically that interesting, but it is interesting to be like, what's that person like in real life? So what was your impression? What's he like?

• 1:11:34Sam Parr?

  Respectful, kind of quiet, listened more than he talked.

• 1:11:41Sam Parr?

  He was just like a quiet, a quiet young person. I mean, he seemed confident enough, but he was very polite. In the podcast, on the podcast, Sean basically put me on the spot and was like, oh, so Sam wants you to lose. And he handled it gracefully. So like respectfully, like he didn't say like, oh, you effed suck. He didn't disrespect Ben at all. So I thought he was very, he was polite.

• 1:12:04Shaan Puri?

  He didn't big time us, he, you know, which we've had that experience with other people who either come on the pod or were trying to get on the pod. They'll, you know, people who are famous and have a bunch of like obligations and everybody wants a piece of their time. Everybody wants to have them interviewed or whatever. It's easy to kind of big time other people. I thought he was extremely respectful, did not do that at all. You know, brought his, you know, A game to the table. I thought like, You know, this guy really is in some ways a marketing genius. Like to build his self-brand up the way he did is actually quite impressive. It's to me as impressive as building, you know, I don't know, whatever.

• 1:12:43Shaan Puri?

  The brand of Jinko jeans or, you know, whatever, like any brand that kind of like hits some pocket of culture.

• 1:12:48Sam Parr?

  Well, let's put this in context as well. I think he's 23.

• 1:12:53Shaan Puri?

  24, yeah.

• 1:12:54Sam Parr?

  She's 24, so I think before the podcast started, we were like, by the way, maybe we should put this segment like at the end.

• 1:13:01Shaan Puri?

  We should move it to that part, yeah.

• 1:13:03Sam Parr?

  Yeah, but he said something like, yeah, we're like, do you invest? He invested, he goes, yeah, I've been angel investing since I was like 18. But is that what he said?

• 1:13:12Shaan Puri?

  Something like that, yeah.

• 1:13:13Sam Parr?

  He's like, I have a pretty large real estate portfolio, like I invested real estate. I'm like, oh, wow, you're, you've been doing this longer than I have and I'm seven years older than you. So that's pretty amazing and you forget that, you forget that. Like whenever I see LeBron, like young videos of LeBron when he, you know, his rookie year, because I like to watch like old YouTube clips of him doing stuff. I'm like, wait a minute, this guy's 19. He's got reporters in his face asking him like, you know, you, you threw the towel and you were kind of disrespectful. And he handled it with such poise, answering that question. And I was like, what was I like when I was 19?

• 1:13:48Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I was a total shithead.

• 1:13:49Sam Parr?

  What was I like when I was Jake Paul, 23 years old? It's pretty amazing.

• 1:13:54Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, there's videos of me goofing around, pranking people or trying to make funny YouTube videos when I was probably 16, 17 years old that, you know, I'd get canceled for today, right? Because I was just a dummy. I didn't know anything about anything. I couldn't handle like any kind of serious conversation. I wasn't, I didn't have a real estate portfolio, you know, I wasn't that guy. And I think this type of, you know, getting, getting famous forces you to grow up one way or another. And also like a big part of it's who's around you. I'm pretty fascinated by all these like childhood celebrities, child celebrities. And it's like, you see that their dad is the manager and then like they get to kind of take advantage by their best friend who stole from them. And like, this is so common, like that's not, it's not, it's not surprising when you hear that. It's like, oh, yep, that's the pretty much par for the course here with athletes and musicians and child actors.

• 1:14:39Shaan Puri?

  Like that's just how it goes. And I would say the transition from like a platform to platform, right? Getting big on Vine, so go to new platform, get big there, boom, move to YouTube. Then from YouTube, Instagram, okay, so cool, you're building up your social following. Then it's like, all right. What got me famous was, you know, me being pranks and jokes and silly stuff. And then now, you know, Logan Paul's podcast is like, actually like more like real conversations. And they bring on, you know, crypto people and they talk about investing and they talk about this other thing. They bring on, you know, a porn star and they'll talk about that. They'll talk about a wider variety of things. And then you go, then there it's like, okay, so they stayed relevant on social media for a while, which is hard.

• 1:15:22Shaan Puri?

  Then transition to this boxing thing, which I think is kind of a genius move. This like celebrity boxing angle that they took because they're making a lot of money. And now they're like, it's just like a different chapter. It's like they got off the daily vlogging treadmill, which every YouTuber burns out on. And they're like, all right, screw it. I'm going to go train for nine months. I'm going to do a boxing match against this other YouTuber. Neither of us are really in any danger because we're both suck at boxing. But we're each going to pull down millions of dollars and do something different with our life. Right. It's like, oh, that's cool. Then it's like building businesses, starting a rolling fund. It's like continually reinventing yourself is interesting to me. I think if you, if you listen to like, whenever we do Billy of the week, it's usually somebody who's reinvented themselves in three or four different chapters of their life. That is interesting.

• 1:16:06Shaan Puri?

  And this guy's, I thought that was kind of cool how he's done that. He didn't say any of those things, but just when I was doing the research, I was kind of taken aback by, oh yeah, that's cool. He's already had like three, three to four pretty interesting chapters before the age of 25.