Pod Insights IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson There's a Right Way to Move Through Old Beefs with Monica About this episode Monica, of legendary R&B duo Monica and Brandy, joins the show to set the record straight: How she handled imagined and real controversy between herself and Brandy, why it's important to play nice with exes, and what she and Michelle both believe is most important to understand before becoming a mom.
Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Transcript 12,026 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 And I went and saw my dad and we started laughing and talking.
0:03 Michelle Obama? That night in your new car?
0:04 Speaker 00 Yes, in that conversation. And he comes down to my car and he say, "It's a nice car. You ain't got nothing in here. That ain't safe." And so he starts loading my car with these weapons of mass destruction. And he's like.
0:21 Craig Robinson? I was thinking you were talking about a first aid kit.
0:23 Michelle Obama? Uh-uh. I knew what you were talking about. Didn't you just hear? Weren't you just here for the first part of the conversation? See, this is HJ.
0:33 Speaker 00 This is HJ.
0:35 Michelle Obama? A first aid kit.
0:35 Speaker 00 This is not, this is not Coach.
0:37 Michelle Obama? I thought that he was gonna put a, a jack for your car.
0:41 Speaker 00 This is not Coach. This is HJ.
0:48 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Theraphy and Chip.
0:54 Craig Robinson? Hey, little girl.
0:55 Michelle Obama? Hey, Je- Je- Uncle Gene.
0:58 Craig Robinson? You like my jeans, don't you? You know, this is called a Canadian tux?
1:01 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
1:01 Craig Robinson? I didn't know that until today.
1:03 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're gonna know a lot about fashion when this is over and done with.
1:07 Craig Robinson? I really like this. This is very comfortable.
1:10 Michelle Obama? Yeah, it's a good, it's not a stiff denim either.
1:13 Craig Robinson? Very relaxed. But what we excited today?
1:16 Michelle Obama? We do. We talk about fashion, beauty, talent, grace, honesty. We got Monica in the house. So excited.
1:29 Craig Robinson? You guys know each other, so.
1:30 Michelle Obama? Well, we've just recently met. We'll talk about that when we bring Monica on.
1:35 Craig Robinson? Okay.
1:35 Michelle Obama? But this is gonna be the first time that I really get to like, go into her brain.
1:41 Craig Robinson? Okay. All right, I'm ready for it.
1:42 Michelle Obama? See what's going on. So we're gonna have a really good conversation. I'm so excited that she has made time to come and be with us.
1:50 Craig Robinson? Yeah, she's just coming off her tour.
1:53 Michelle Obama? That she is just a total delight and she's a smart, smart woman. So, but let's do our proper introduction.
1:59 Craig Robinson? Okay, well Monica is a multi-platinum Grammy Award-winning singer, songwriter, philanthropist, entrepreneur, and actress, who has sold more than 30 million records worldwide. She made history with, with back-to-back number one hits and a record 13 weeks atop the Billboard Hot 100. With "The Boy Is Mine," her Grammy-winning duet with Brandy. In 2024, she and Brandy joined Ariana Grande for the Grammy-nominated remix of "The Boy Is Mine," earning the duo a new nomination 25 years after their original Grammy win. Most recently, Brandy and Monica embarked on their historic, sold-out North American "The Boy Is Mine" tour,
2:44 Craig Robinson? which I think you went to, didn't you?
2:46 Michelle Obama? Yes, yes, we'll talk about that.
2:48 Craig Robinson? Marking a full-circle moment 27 years after the song's cultural breakthrough. And right off of her tour, Monica.
2:58 Michelle Obama? Come on in, Monica in the house.
3:03 Speaker 00 Here I am, which way do we go?
3:08 Craig Robinson? Welcome, thank you for being here.
3:11 Speaker 00 Thank you for having me.
3:12 Michelle Obama? Into her chair.
3:14 Craig Robinson? How close you wanna scooch?
3:15 Speaker 00 Close. Yes, there we are.
3:18 Craig Robinson? Right there?
3:19 Speaker 00 Yes, indeed.
3:20 Michelle Obama? Well, welcome to "I Am Mo, Honey Bun."
3:23 Speaker 00 I love it, I love it. You know they call me Mo.
3:25 Michelle Obama? Do they call you Mo?
3:26 Craig Robinson? We got two Mo's at the table.
3:28 Speaker 00 Two Mo's.
3:29 Michelle Obama? Oh, my goodness, cuz I heard Mo out there and I'm looking, it's like, who needs me?
3:32 Speaker 00 They were yelling at me. They were definitely yelling at me. They have been calling me Mo since I probably was about eight years old.
3:40 Michelle Obama? Really?
3:41 Speaker 00 Yes.
3:41 Michelle Obama? Really? Cuz your first cousin is on your team.
3:43 Speaker 00 Yes, she is.
3:44 Michelle Obama? Yeah, so she brought family, right, to all this. Has she been with you? And so your first cousin's name, who is?
3:52 Speaker 00 Melinda.
3:52 Michelle Obama? Melinda?
3:53 Speaker 00 Yes.
3:53 Michelle Obama? Has she been with you throughout your career?
3:55 Speaker 00 Since the beginning, since the beginning. I was only 12 when they signed me.
3:59 Michelle Obama? Yep.
4:00 Speaker 00 And my mother was employed at Delta. And she was like, listen, this is set up for pension and a lot of other stuff when this is over.
4:08 Michelle Obama? Yes, we're not messing this up.
4:11 Speaker 00 Yes, we're not messing this up. But she, she believed that I should explore my dreams and that I should see what this could really be. But she didn't feel that she should be the one on the road. She never wanted to be a momager. She never wanted to be in front of the camera. And she used to tell me, when you're tired, if this doesn't serve you and who you are and who you are, come home.
4:34 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
4:35 Speaker 00 And I love that that was always there because I never felt forced.
4:38 Michelle Obama? Yes.
4:38 Speaker 00 I sang because I loved it.
4:40 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
4:40 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
4:41 Speaker 00 So it was, it was a great way for me to start.
4:43 Craig Robinson? How prescient of your mom to be able to be in that space with you at that point in time. Cause that was, that's not nor, that's not normal.
4:53 Speaker 00 It's not normal, but I wasn't a normal kid. At all. And now I have birthed an abnormal version of myself. So.
5:03 Michelle Obama? Are you talking about your baby?
5:05 Speaker 00 I am.
5:05 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
5:06 Speaker 00 I am. All five foot eight inches of her at only 12 years old.
5:10 Michelle Obama? Yes.
5:11 Speaker 00 Very similar to me.
5:12 Michelle Obama? Gorgeous. She is really a beautiful young lady. I got to meet her backstage when we met. I got to see you on tour.
5:20 Speaker 00 Yes.
5:20 Michelle Obama? Uh, in DC at Capital One Arena. The concert was amazing.
5:26 Speaker 00 Thank you.
5:27 Michelle Obama? I, you know, I mean, I, you, you all are singers.
5:30 Speaker 00 Yes.
5:30 Michelle Obama? You know, you're not, real singers.
5:33 Speaker 00 Yes.
5:33 Michelle Obama? Your real voice, no buffering, no, you know? And so I knew that it was gonna be amazing. But it was really, it was really empowering.
5:46 Speaker 00 It was so challenging to start because I found out that I had vocal paralysis in the right vocal cord.
5:55 Michelle Obama? So what does that mean?
5:56 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
5:56 Speaker 00 That means it should be moving and it's not. And now I have all these major obligations. And this is when you wanna be in the best shape of your life. And we've been trying to figure out what was happening for quite some time.
6:10 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
6:10 Speaker 00 Things started to sound very different, the way I hear them, the way they would come out. And it was after I had surgery, um, initially for my sinuses.
6:18 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
6:19 Craig Robinson? And this was before the tour?
6:21 Speaker 00 Well, we didn't find out why this was happening until two weeks before the tour.
6:26 Michelle Obama? Oh, wow. So you were already experiencing, what was?
6:29 Speaker 00 I had been experiencing it for a while, but Dr. Rene Gupta.
6:33 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
6:34 Speaker 00 Is the one that really figured out what was happening. Because I've always been able to do whatever I wanted to do vocally. And I started realizing that these things aren't happening. So I had to learn it all over and we did it in a. It was one day where it was just tears for me. It was just tears. I just had to get in Anthony's lap and cry.
6:57 Michelle Obama? It must have been frightening, too.
6:59 Speaker 00 Very much so. And not even the idea of the judgment of it all. But because I hold myself to a standard that I did not realize that I was so hard on myself all of these years, until this moment, I'm 45 years old. I didn't realize that I ever put any form of pressure. You know, I'm more of a round the way, girl. I do my own thing, my own way. I realized you have been placing this level of pressure on yourself for a very long time. And it was definitely there when you have 32 cities that are expecting to have the night of their life.
7:35 Michelle Obama? Wow. Wow. So this tour was transformational for you in some real personal ways. Have you talked about this before? Because, I mean, we didn't know.
7:46 Speaker 00 No.
7:47 Michelle Obama? Okay.
7:48 Speaker 00 No. And the thing is, it's no one asks. You know, we are the last people that people actually care how you're doing.
7:55 Michelle Obama? Really?
7:55 Speaker 00 And I'm used to it. This is not a ploy for pity. I am so used to it. When you start at 12, especially during a time where perfection was something that was pushed. What I love about now is people can just be themselves. You see them, whether it's online or out in public. Back then, you hit a lot.
8:15 Michelle Obama? You had to be, you had to present. You had to...
8:18 Speaker 00 They wanted you to present. And I became noted for not presenting, just showing up and doing me. And we talked about my album title, Miss Thing.
8:28 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
8:28 Speaker 00 My first album. Dallas would look over and say, "This is a great song, but it's your turn. Go in there and see what Miss Thing says." And I'm, you know, sitting there...
8:41 Michelle Obama? That's so great.
8:41 Speaker 00 Yes, with this very little information oftentimes about who was who. Because my first time singing for Mr. Davis, we go into Clive's office. I'm 12, 13 years old, and it's like a board meeting. And everyone is dressed to impress and on their best behavior. And I remember being in the hallway saying, "They too still." And he goes, Dallas does this, he goes, he had on some shades, he goes, "Baby girl." You're not in Atlanta. We're in New York City. And this is Clive Davis's office.
9:19 Speaker 03 Okay.
9:20 Speaker 00 And I go in the office.
9:21 Michelle Obama? Clive who?
9:22 Speaker 00 Yes.
9:23 Michelle Obama? He's still stiff.
9:24 Speaker 00 I go in the office and I start to sing. All between the chairs.
9:30 Michelle Obama? Wow.
9:30 Speaker 00 All in people's faces. All, but that's who I am. And you wanna be who you're. I feel like we are all made intentionally to be different.
9:43 Michelle Obama? I agree.
9:43 Speaker 00 Designed different by the most perfect creator, right? So in all my imperfections, I'm in there just singing. And then they stand up and clap. And Dallas is like, oof, we made it. We made it. Get her out of here. But that's always been me.
9:59 Michelle Obama? Before they change their mind.
10:00 Speaker 00 Yes.
10:00 Craig Robinson? So now that you're here now, when you look back on that, how did you feel about little Monica doing that?
10:10 Speaker 00 I am glad that I didn't know any better.
10:13 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
10:14 Speaker 00 Because I never had to pretend to be someone I wasn't. I show up as myself just as much today. As yesterday, yester year.
10:26 Michelle Obama? Yep.
10:26 Speaker 00 All of the time, I am me.
10:28 Michelle Obama? And isn't it easier to keep up with that? I mean, people ask me this, you seem so authentic. Who you, who you are seems to be who you are all the time. And my feeling is that's easier to keep up with.
10:42 Speaker 00 Yes.
10:43 Michelle Obama? Because if I have to be one way giving a speech and one way talking to Congress and a different way when I go home. How, it's hard to keep up with all that.
10:53 Speaker 00 And eventually, you will be seen.
10:55 Michelle Obama? Yes.
10:56 Speaker 00 What we see happening now, because people have so much access, they're finding out people they thought they adored, they don't even like.
11:03 Michelle Obama? Yeah, that's right.
11:04 Speaker 00 If you liked me then, you love me now.
11:06 Michelle Obama? That's right.
11:07 Speaker 00 Because you're just getting more of me and it's the me that there always was. You don't have to keep up and act.
11:13 Michelle Obama? So where did you get that confidence so young? I mean, I, I.
11:19 Michelle Obama? I can have that conversation. I've had it, you know? I mean, I grew up in a, in a household where we had parents that liked who we were.
11:28 Speaker 00 Yes.
11:29 Michelle Obama? You know, they weren't ever trying to make us different. They were delighted with our, our voices and our sense of humor and who we were. And for us, it started there.
11:39 Speaker 00 Yes.
11:39 Michelle Obama? Because as my mother would say, you don't have to worry about what people think of you out there. Come home to be liked. We like you here.
11:47 Speaker 00 Yes. I do believe my family and where I'm from. Where I'm from, it's okay to just be you. My, my mother and father are from Noonan, Georgia. And I was also raised by my stepfather, who was an incredible man. He's also a pastor. So being a preacher's kid.
12:08 Michelle Obama? Yep.
12:08 Speaker 00 You know, we either act out and act up, or we get in line. And I did a little bit of both.
12:14 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
12:14 Speaker 00 You know, I did a little bit of both. And being unapologetically myself, but always having a safe space to return.
12:21 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
12:22 Speaker 00 Was what made me so confident. Even when I read things about myself that are disparaging. I'm still okay.
12:29 Michelle Obama? Yeah, because you're like, I know who I am.
12:31 Speaker 00 I know exactly who I am. And those people that need to know me will.
12:35 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
12:42 Craig Robinson? This episode is brought to you by Theraplu, makers of fast-acting cold and flu relief. Since 2021, Theraplu's Rest and Recover Fund has provided more than $1 million to families to help offset the cost of a sick day. We had IMO listeners share stories about how paid sick time has impacted their lives and wanted to share a few of them with you. Many of our listeners are a part of the sandwich generation, meaning they are responsible for taking care of their kids and also their parents or in-laws. We had one listener share that they have had to take sick time for their own recovery and then also simultaneously care for their grandmother,
13:27 Craig Robinson? which made it hard for them to fully rest and get better. I think this is something we both can relate to with caring for our mom. And even now, for me, that my in-laws are living close by.
13:40 Michelle Obama? Yeah, that's, that's for sure. I mean, but I'd, I'd say that we are way more blessed than our mom was because we had resources. I mean, this is, I think, what Theraplu understands. I mean, being a part of the sandwich generation, when you don't have the resources and support, means something totally different. We saw that with our mom. Because as many of you know, we lived in our home with our great aunt and, and great uncle as they aged. And our mother was in that sandwich position where we saw her caring for our aunt and uncle as they aged while we were still pretty young. And I just remember those times with her being so exhausted.
14:25 Michelle Obama? Not just physically exhausted, but just exhausted by the worry of all what turned out to be 24-hour care. It is, it's too much for a generation to bear. But thanks to Theraplu and their work, their support out there.
14:44 Craig Robinson? And there's another listener who shared that she is a single mom who doesn't have paid sick time. She said that she has no choice but to work when sick because she can't afford not to.
14:55 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah, that's, that's for sure.
14:58 Craig Robinson? Theraplu knows that resting and recovering when sick can be especially difficult for parents and caregivers who aren't just responsible for themselves, but also the loved ones they care for. That's why Theraplu remains committed to continuing to fight for paid sick leave for all Americans because no one should have to choose between their health and their job. Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at theraplu.com/righttorecover.
15:30 Craig Robinson? My kitchen has never quite felt completely put together, like it's always felt like something is missing. And then Kelly and I found these striped linen cafe curtains on Wayfair, and the effect has been perfect. Once we realized we wanted some curtains, it was just a matter of typing our ideal item into Wayfair's search bar. And of course, they have what we want plus 10 other options. Their inventory truly cannot be beat. I especially like being able to look through customer photos and reviews before I decide. That's what sealed the deal for us with our new curtains, as well as all of the other amazing pieces we have from Wayfair in our house right now. Wayfair has more than 20 million verified five-star reviews,
16:14 Craig Robinson? so you can actually see how something looks and works in real people's homes. Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.
16:36 Speaker 00 Wayfair, every style, every home.
16:44 Michelle Obama? So what was your kitchen table like at home? I mean, what was it like to sit around your house?
16:52 Speaker 00 As a kid or now?
16:53 Michelle Obama? As a kid, as a kid. And then, and how is that? How you carry that on to your, the table that you, you are in charge of?
17:03 Speaker 00 Anthony and I have done a lot for it to remain the way it was as a kid.
17:08 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
17:08 Speaker 00 For him, it's very different because he grew up as an orphan, but he also...
17:13 Michelle Obama? And Anthony is your husband.
17:15 Speaker 00 Yes, he's incredible. He was my friend for 14 years first. And I always say, that is the one thing I missed. I don't feel like I missed a lot, but in that friendship, I missed
17:29 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
17:29 Speaker 00 all the other things we could be.
17:31 Craig Robinson? Wait, explain that. So you, you missed him being a partner?
17:36 Speaker 00 No, I missed that he could be.
17:37 Michelle Obama? That he could be, because he was just a homie.
17:39 Craig Robinson? Because he was just a friend.
17:40 Speaker 00 Yes. He was like, he was my emergency contact. He was, and maybe it was just that I respected him so much. You know how you hear people say anything other than the friendship with friends can tarnish it?
17:54 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
17:54 Speaker 00 Maybe that's what I was more afraid of because I told him everything about me.
18:00 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
18:00 Craig Robinson? So. So did Anthony, was he thinking or hoping that there could be something back then?
18:07 Speaker 00 You know, that's been a debate at the kitchen table we spoke of because I have an aunt that believes yes. And then I have a mom that's like, no, I think you both just implicitly trusted each other and didn't believe that that could be in a relationship. And you missed it.
18:26 Craig Robinson? What does Anthony say?
18:28 Speaker 00 He says he missed it, but he was always very protective. He is also.
18:32 Michelle Obama? How long have you been married?
18:34 Speaker 00 Well, okay, so he and I have been where we are now, three years.
18:37 Michelle Obama? Three years.
18:38 Speaker 00 The friendship was 14 years, right? So 14 years of a lot of tears on my end and he was focused on work.
18:48 Michelle Obama? He's watching you deal with knuckleheads.
18:52 Speaker 00 He's watching me navigate.
18:54 Michelle Obama? Okay, I said that, I said that, that came out of my mouth, not Monica's mouth. I don't know anybody else, I'm just saying.
19:02 Speaker 00 Yes.
19:02 Michelle Obama? That y'all didn't keep her, so something happened.
19:05 Speaker 00 You know, I'll, I'll tell you what actually happened is I think I grew to new me even better. And I stopped trying to fix other things and other people.
19:16 Michelle Obama? Ooh, say that slow.
19:18 Speaker 00 Yes, being the child of a preacher. You think.
19:23 Michelle Obama? That you can save everybody.
19:24 Speaker 00 There is good in everything and you can save anything and anyone from even themselves. I met and was in relationships with some really great people, but maybe not great for me.
19:34 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
19:35 Speaker 00 Doesn't make them bad people.
19:36 Michelle Obama? That's right.
19:37 Speaker 00 Just not right for me.
19:38 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
19:38 Speaker 00 And when I learned to sit with myself, and I did that throughout the entirety of COVID. I believe I. Ended up divorced about 2018, 2019, and just sitting with myself. But I was still in fight or flight. I was still trying to save people I knew, even from my past, going back. I can help them. I can help. Monica, help yourself. Get back into the Word. Focus solely on your children. At this time, we were living in a hotel because I literally packed up from my marital home and said, I'm going to start over. God is speaking to me and I can hear Him clearly. I'm not going to ignore anything that's being said.
20:21 Speaker 00 We moved into the hotel and shortly after COVID happens. And no one knows what it is. So now we're in this hotel.
20:29 Michelle Obama? So you've moved out before it became a thing?
20:32 Speaker 00 Yes, absolutely. And I am very big on protecting my past and people in it. I can share about me without talking about you, without being negative towards you. You are the father of my children by biological nature. However, I don't have to disrespect you because I'm finding my way. So I never spoke on it. I didn't even announce I was getting divorced. It was not necessary, not to me. And that also comes from the kitchen table. My mom, she never spoke negatively of my father. This is what we're doing and this is why. And it was up to us to listen, to learn, to navigate the way that she does. Takes a lot of God, a lot of patience,
21:15 Speaker 00 and a lot of respect for yourself and the other person. Because I do come from being a lot more aggressive.
21:24 Speaker 00 I found the softer side of things.
21:26 Michelle Obama? Now, when you say, what does that mean? Because that means different things to different people. And I hate when people take passion and confidence for aggressiveness. So I just want to know, how do you define that? Because you use that term.
21:43 Speaker 00 Mine was definitely aggressive. Okay, I'm not going to.
21:47 Craig Robinson? There's no mistake here.
21:48 Speaker 00 There's no mistake in it. I refuse to attempt to make myself look better.
21:54 Craig Robinson? We appreciate you trying to look out for Monica.
21:57 Michelle Obama? Just want to make sure.
21:59 Speaker 00 Okay, sir. I was positively aggressive. And whenever I was hurt, I reacted with aggression. That is where songs like "So Gone", "Kick Down the Door", those are all real things.
22:13 Michelle Obama? Just like that, there was a door kicked down.
22:15 Speaker 00 Now, those are 25-year-old things versus 45.
22:18 Michelle Obama? Yes.
22:19 Speaker 00 But they were things.
22:20 Michelle Obama? Yes.
22:20 Speaker 00 And I owned them.
22:21 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
22:21 Speaker 00 But, you know, my mom was very gentle. She didn't raise her voice. I've never heard her curse.
22:30 Michelle Obama? But where did you come from?
22:32 Speaker 00 My daddy.
22:32 Michelle Obama? Okay.
22:33 Speaker 00 I definitely, my father. I definitely am my father's child. I was taken to the fields at 2 years old, given a 22 and taught to shoot out in the free reins. And my father was very different than my mother. And I think that balance is what you get with me. I didn't know how to balance them until later years. And so when I would be hurt, that's how I would respond. And that's what I was known for. Hence, some of the nicknames, the Gunika and all these names. Now, I didn't give myself these nicknames.
23:04 Michelle Obama? He doesn't know what that means.
23:05 Craig Robinson? I don't, I don't.
23:06 Speaker 00 Awesome, I love that for me.
23:07 Michelle Obama? So we have a fresh start.
23:09 Craig Robinson? Yeah. Yeah, we do. Because I'm like, who could come up with that name for you?
23:15 Michelle Obama? This was her youngest self.
23:17 Speaker 00 Yes.
23:18 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
23:18 Speaker 00 Yes.
23:18 Michelle Obama? But it give him, just so to fill him in, because I know what you're talking about, but...
23:23 Speaker 00 I refused, in my mind, back then, to be played with. But now, I refuse to play myself. I don't waste my time in spaces and places where I'm not appreciated. It never dawned on me, just leave.
23:38 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
23:39 Speaker 00 You know?
23:39 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
23:40 Speaker 00 That is still that, I can fix it. It can work there, is good there. We can make this happen.
23:45 Michelle Obama? And you, you match that with an aggressive
23:49 Speaker 00 Yes.
23:50 Michelle Obama? personality, someone who, you're not gonna, you're not gonna just give me anything, but you're there taking it.
23:56 Speaker 00 Yes.
23:56 Michelle Obama? You're there trying to fix it.
23:58 Speaker 00 Yes.
23:58 Michelle Obama? But, yeah, yeah.
24:00 Speaker 00 Yes, I pray that my daughter sees me navigate in this way. Because even though my mom was the...
24:09 Speaker 00 Most amazing example. I chose within myself to respond the way I did to things. Because I always thought she was too nice.
24:18 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
24:19 Speaker 00 Now I understand what she was doing.
24:21 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
24:21 Speaker 00 Now I get it.
24:23 Michelle Obama? And your siblings. You have a brother. What was his personality? Because brother sister, I would tend to be, if there was a guna cut title between us.
24:35 Craig Robinson? I don't like that word.
24:37 Speaker 00 I didn't like it when I first heard it. And I think it was meant initially as an insult. And it was probably an insult. But I accept who I was and who I am. Because I'm not who I used to be. So I can laugh at it and we make jokes about it. But your brother is the more, now my brother is, it's zero tolerance.
24:58 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
24:58 Speaker 00 Over there.
24:59 Michelle Obama? I know, this is Mr. Nice Guy.
25:01 Speaker 00 Oh, no.
25:02 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
25:02 Craig Robinson? Yeah, well, growing up I was. And then once I had kids, that's when I developed my edge. I think, I think I was, she tells all the time, they used to call me, she used to call me HJ for Honest John because I was really a nice kid.
25:19 Speaker 00 Yes.
25:20 Craig Robinson? And then once I had children, that's when my edge started to build.
25:27 Michelle Obama? But his edge is even smooth, it's still smooth compared to what we would consider an edge.
25:33 Speaker 00 That's my mother, that's my mother.
25:35 Michelle Obama? The only time he trips me out, he's a coach and has been a coach.
25:40 Speaker 00 That has to be different.
25:41 Michelle Obama? Yeah, Coach Robinson, I'm like, oh my God. Without yelling at those babies, why are you yelling at them so much?
25:48 Craig Robinson? She was so mad at me when she first saw me coach. We used to, when I, when I was coaching, we used to visit Washington DC every Thanksgiving and do a service day, have dinner at the White House.
26:02 Michelle Obama? With his team, his college team.
26:04 Craig Robinson? And then we play a game on Friday. And go back home. And the first time we did it, we played at Howard University. So I took my team, Howard University, and we're playing the game. And we're losing. And I am screaming at my players because they're not doing.
26:22 Michelle Obama? And we're there, the president and the first lady. And I'm like, oh, and they had just had dinner at, you know, they were just over and with us, these poor little boys. Now, they're all 6'11", but they're babies.
26:33 Speaker 00 Right.
26:34 Craig Robinson? And she couldn't believe I was yelling at them.
26:35 Michelle Obama? Yelling at them like that.
26:37 Speaker 00 Really? That comes with it. That comes with it.
26:41 Craig Robinson? Thank you.
26:42 Speaker 00 That comes with it. I have a 17, almost 18-year-old. That's at OTE.
26:48 Michelle Obama? Okay. Yeah, you were telling me.
26:50 Speaker 00 That is an elite high school.
26:52 Craig Robinson? It's elite. And for the, for our listeners who aren't in the sports tip.
26:56 Speaker 00 Tell them.
26:56 Craig Robinson? You, you, you, you can't just show up at OTE. You have to be recruited there.
27:02 Michelle Obama? Tell them. That's my baby.
27:03 Craig Robinson? It is a pathway to the NBA, so.
27:07 Speaker 00 Listen, I, my mother sits a few rows behind me and pretends that she did not give birth to me the entire time. Because I am, you know, there were times where, listen, I'm playing both roles. So I am yelling to the top of my lungs. And I.
27:30 Michelle Obama? Pass the ball! Take your shot! Take your shot! Foul! You reffing, are you reffing too? You coaching and reffing?
27:40 Speaker 00 The refs don't like to see me coming. Okay? There's a reason. There's a reason. But when I see him, I see that he believes in himself. I remind him that he can do anything. And he chose the number one for a reason. So I always remind him of that very loudly from the side. So I understand you, Coach.
27:58 Craig Robinson? All right.
27:58 Speaker 00 I'm with you, Coach.
28:00 Craig Robinson? Thank you.
28:01 Speaker 00 I'm with you. I support you. I support you.
28:05 Michelle Obama? So just to walk a bit more through your career trajectory. I think everybody who knows Monica knows that story. But the how you, how did you manage as a 12 year old? You know, coming from what was a, you know, it was a, you came from a grounded home.
28:27 Speaker 00 Yes.
28:27 Michelle Obama? You know, with a family that loved you.
28:32 Speaker 00 Yes.
28:32 Michelle Obama? And you went into an industry that we learn every year how crazy and, and soul sucking. It can be. How was it for you to retain your, your confidence through that process? How did you do that as a 12 year old? And what were some of those challenges that you faced early on?
29:02 Michelle Obama? That you had to really kind of wrestle with as, as young as 12?
29:09 Speaker 00 I have always said that my biological father, MC Arnold Jr.
29:20 Speaker 00 He was stern and assertive. He did not play with outsiders. He was very, you know, very loving towards us. But I spent a lot of years upset with him after my parents divorced.
29:36 Speaker 00 The forgiveness came from me realizing I needed everything that he and his family showed me. Because that side of who I am is what keeps me on this side of the business. My mom was always loving, always godly, always in the word, always helping, always teaching. If she had it, you had it. But my father, you had to earn space around him. And I used to sometimes just be looking at him like. What?
30:10 Michelle Obama? Can you chill out?
30:11 Speaker 00 Chill. Yes, chill. I realized I needed him.
30:16 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
30:16 Speaker 00 Everything that I thought he wasn't was with purpose.
30:19 Michelle Obama? What did he think of your career? Your position, your mother was encouraging, supportive?
30:24 Speaker 00 Yes.
30:25 Michelle Obama? How did your father feel about it? And were you close to him? Did you continue to be? I know you were mad at him.
30:31 Speaker 00 Yes.
30:32 Michelle Obama? But did that mad, mad mean you weren't in contact with him?
30:36 Speaker 00 So from about 12 to 15, no. Not very much.
30:39 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
30:39 Speaker 00 But my brother, they are like a set of twins. And I remember getting my first car.
30:49 Michelle Obama? That you must have bought yourself.
30:51 Speaker 00 Actually, no.
30:52 Michelle Obama? No, so tell, whoa, where, how?
30:54 Speaker 00 So Dallas was, Dallas Austin is who signed me.
30:57 Michelle Obama? Yep.
30:58 Speaker 00 And he took on that fatherly role very early because he saw what was happening.
31:04 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
31:04 Speaker 00 With my dad and I. And he used to always tell me, baby girl, he loves you. He's moving in the way he knows how.
31:12 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
31:12 Speaker 00 He's giving you, he's trying to equip you with things you may not understand. But he would always let me lean in and on him. And so he bought me this car. And I drove all night. And I drove over to Brandywine that night.
31:30 Michelle Obama? But you just driving around the city?
31:31 Speaker 00 Just driving around the city.
31:32 Michelle Obama? Around the block?
31:33 Speaker 00 They give me this party at the Ritz Carlton. And then I drove, I drive over.
31:39 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
31:39 Speaker 00 About 1:00 in the morning because my aunt, my aunt Evelyn is, she's actually who I look and speak like.
31:44 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
31:45 Speaker 00 She didn't play either.
31:46 Michelle Obama? Uh-huh.
31:46 Speaker 00 She was very much, she used to read the comics and she would send us to play her number. And she would have her little pistol in there under her newspaper when she would be going through the Archie comics to decide what number she would play.
32:00 Michelle Obama? Because it was based on the Archie comics?
32:02 Speaker 00 She would base it on the Archie comics.
32:04 Michelle Obama? Well, there you go. It's a theory. It's a system. It's a system. I don't recall her winning.
32:09 Speaker 00 You know? She won at life because we respected her to the max.
32:13 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
32:14 Speaker 00 And when she said something, that's what it was. If she said, get in here, little girl.
32:17 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
32:18 Speaker 00 I was always little girl. My son was little feather. Everybody had a name. And I was most like her and I drove so she could see the car, but she worked the night shift. So I knew she would be up drinking coffee, smoking a cigarette. And so I just went there and then she told me to go see my dad. And that was it.
32:38 Michelle Obama? And you hadn't seen him?
32:39 Speaker 00 I had not seen him for a minute, no.
32:41 Craig Robinson? And what precipitated her to say that?
32:44 Speaker 00 I don't know and she's deceased now, I can't ask.
32:47 Craig Robinson? Wow.
32:47 Speaker 00 But she told me to go see my dad. And I went and saw my dad and we started laughing and talking.
32:52 Michelle Obama? That night in your new car?
32:54 Speaker 00 Yes, in that conversation. And he comes down to my car and he say, "It's a nice car, you ain't got nothing in here, that ain't safe." And so he starts loading my car with these weapons of mass destruction. And he's like-
33:10 Craig Robinson? I was thinking you were talking about a first aid kit.
33:14 Michelle Obama? I knew what you were talking about. Didn't you just hear? Weren't you just here for the first part of the conversation? See, this is HJ.
33:23 Speaker 00 This is HJ.
33:24 Michelle Obama? A first aid kit.
33:25 Speaker 00 This is not, this is not Coach.
33:27 Michelle Obama? I thought that he was gonna put a-
33:29 Speaker 00 This is not Coach. This is not Coach, this is HJ. You know, and from that moment on, it's been the way we are now. And my father is a double amputee now. And my brother, I watched them and it just, it does something to me because the way they take care of each other, you just don't know what the end of your story will be like. And so when I think about 16-year-old Monica and now, it's just worlds apart.
33:56 Michelle Obama? You know, our mom always says this, it's like, too many kids waste time being angry at their parents.
34:07 Michelle Obama? When, you know, as you grow up, you realize your parents are human and you understand the context of who they are, good or bad. I mean, all the stories don't end as beautifully as yours did with your father. I mean, a lot of people continue to be disappointed, let down. But mom used to always talk about, you know, kids having a level of empathy.
34:31 Speaker 00 For what their parents could and couldn't get to them. But you know what, I think it's hard for a lot of kids. I mentor a lot of young, and I think one of the big issues is that parents have trouble being accountable. My father's apology to me and my mother, most of, because I saw the way you treated her. And part of my issue with you had nothing to do with things you did to me, things you did to her. Yeah. His accountability. He took accountability. That is where forgiveness really transpired. I said one day to my oldest son Rodney, I said, I failed you with my choices. He said, Mama, you don't fail me, you lift me. Everything I do, in every session, every song, it's because of you.
35:15 Speaker 00 I believe because of you. He said, how you think Mello play the way he does? What are you talking about? You failed me. But it's just me wanting to be accountable because my choices affect you. Yeah. Them coming first is how I feel after the storm. That was an album title, but it was really my life in those moments, or New Life, or Co-Red. It's a state of emergency over here for me, so I step away. I haven't had an album in a decade now for that very reason. Now it's pause, stop. What do we need as a family? It doesn't always make the fans as happy. Well, but, you know. But the kids are.
36:07 Craig Robinson? Our family is starting to plan for trips this summer. Aside from all the basketball travel you've heard me talk about, we want to make time for a family vacation. And we're hoping to travel internationally this year, maybe Spain, France, or Italy, because we really love to eat and Italian food is our favorite. We also want to invite our older children and their families to come with us. If they all say yes, we're talking about at least eight adult-sized people and their luggage, so we could use the extra space. Traveling with family is so much better when staying at homes on Airbnb. There's more space and it's so nice that we get to explore new neighborhoods and cities,
36:52 Craig Robinson? thanks to hosts who open their homes so families like ours can explore. And boy, do we like to explore. Thanks to our friends at Shipt for sponsoring this episode. With Shipt's same-day delivery, I never worry about how I'm gonna get my shopping done, for a few reasons. With Shipt, you can order same-day delivery on everything you need. Groceries, decor, gifts, and so much more, from many of your favorite stores like Safeway, Albertsons, Michael's, Target, and PetSmart, as well as local favorites exclusive to your area. Shoppers with Shipt are known for their exceptional attention to detail and quality service,
37:34 Craig Robinson? so you can rest assured that your items are shopped and delivered with the utmost care. And with an annual Shipt membership, you can place as many Shipt orders as you want, pay $0 in delivery fees with orders over $35, unlock exclusive deals, and even request your favorite shoppers to shop for your future orders. There's a few items that I am really picky about at the grocery store. I like my sardines, but I want King Oscar sardines only. I don't want any substitutes. Also, I'm a big fan of sliced cheddar cheese, but I want the deli to use the number one blade.
38:18 Craig Robinson? One and a half is too thick. In addition, I'm particular about my potato chips. So when I use Shipt to get my favorites, I know I'll get what I need. And since you can text one-on-one with your shopper, they can help you get exactly what you need, down to the brand, size, dietary restriction, even the preferred shade of your bananas. And that is extremely important in the Robinson household where we make our shakes. Download the app or order now at shipt.com. That's S-H-I-P-T dot com.
38:59 Craig Robinson? So given that, then what was the inspiration for doing this tour?
39:09 Speaker 00 My children were my greatest inspiration.
39:14 Speaker 00 And Anthony reminding me that I now have the support to do it also inspired me. Because I'm not doing, I'm not doing it alone. And then Brandy and I had a conversation. That really was the catalyst for the change that was needed for us to do this. So many people wanted us to do it. But it was too much unresolved and we had not spoken at all. When we did verses, we had not seen each other in almost seven or eight years. That's not the way you do a co-headlining tour. I kept saying, we just need to speak because the women we've become. I believe they can come together in a completely different capacity and that's what you saw.
39:58 Michelle Obama? Do you, can you share some of that? I know Brandy's not here. Brandy, love you, hugs to you. I know she couldn't make being here. And shouts go out, so I don't want to ask you anything that feels like it's a private conversation. But if there are aspects to what the content of that was for you.
40:16 Speaker 00 You know what? I'm very protective of her and it happened without me.
40:21 Michelle Obama? And I could tell behind, I could, I could tell, you know? I mean, yes, I, I could, I could, I could tell in our, our grief. And I mean, I get it, you know?
40:33 Speaker 00 A lot was required of her.
40:35 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
40:35 Speaker 00 See, I did what I wanted.
40:37 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
40:38 Speaker 00 Whether it was good or bad, I did what I wanted. She did the right thing all the time. And that's heavy, that's a heavy load. And she loves for things to be perfect. She challenges herself. All that dancing you saw?
40:54 Michelle Obama? Yes.
40:55 Speaker 00 It was her, it was her.
40:57 Michelle Obama? Because y'all, if you didn't go to the concert, because are you all extending? Because you talked about.
41:02 Speaker 00 We've not decided.
41:03 Michelle Obama? Okay.
41:03 Speaker 00 I'll decide.
41:04 Michelle Obama? I know that there's a request you all have dates. Your promoters told me that.
41:09 Speaker 00 Did they?
41:09 Michelle Obama? Oh, they came up, they were like, we trying to get them to get more dates. I was like, okay, I don't know if I can do anything.
41:14 Speaker 00 I'll do it if she wants to. I'll do it if she wants to.
41:16 Michelle Obama? Um, but it would, it is a show, right? You all are moving and those dancers, the male dancers, they were so good.
41:25 Speaker 00 She chose each one of them.
41:26 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
41:27 Speaker 00 Her and Frank Gaston are very close. They got together, they, and I, and I wanted her.
41:32 Michelle Obama? I don't do all this moving.
41:33 Speaker 00 No.
41:33 Michelle Obama? Monica's like, I like to sit in a, on a chair and tell a story. And Brandy wanted smoke. You said the smoke and the fire and the lights and that, and you.
41:43 Speaker 00 Yes, I was, okay. This is why I feel like, so some of the fans started calling us Bronica. Okay, so Bronica is the group name, right? Bronica, we are, we complement each other.
41:56 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
41:57 Speaker 00 It's a marriage. So she had a lot of ideas. The opening, all her.
42:02 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
42:03 Speaker 00 All her. The boy is mine, the song. All her. Rodney Jerkins, LaShawn Daniels, Fred. It was them. They called me. I was in Atlanta doing whatever I was doing.
42:15 Michelle Obama? You were yelling at them in the bleachers.
42:18 Speaker 00 No, I didn't. I did, yeah.
42:19 Speaker 03 No, not then.
42:20 Speaker 00 I was about 16 or 17.
42:22 Michelle Obama? Oh, you mean the original song.
42:23 Speaker 00 The original song was all, it was all her. That all brought us to this moment.
42:29 Michelle Obama? Got it.
42:29 Speaker 00 And so for me, what I bring is the visuals. I want, I want the true story to be there. I was like, at some point, they need to hear our voices, not just the songs. What was happening in our lives? Let's not avoid the tragedies and what made us who we are as women. Let's talk about our children and what transpired. Let's make sure the children are a part of it. I'm big on the fashion. She let me, she's like, okay, you have your way there, but you're gonna dance.
42:58 Michelle Obama? But you're, you're coming down those stairs.
43:00 Speaker 00 You're gonna hit this two-step right here. We're gonna snap and pause and we're gonna.
43:07 Speaker 00 And I let it happen. But that's the trust.
43:10 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
43:10 Speaker 00 Because she also trusts me to protect her when it's not okay. You know, we were in Chicago and she wasn't, she hadn't been feeling well. A lot of anxiety, a lot of things were transpiring, things were happening. We, you know, when a show starts.
43:25 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
43:26 Speaker 00 Those first two to three weeks, you are flushing through millions of dollars worth of ideas and technical things.
43:35 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
43:35 Speaker 00 It's not going to be what you had the opportunity to see right away.
43:40 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
43:40 Speaker 00 You know, if you think about it, we, I absolutely adore Beyonce and Usher. You think about the first shows, whether it was the car in the air or something. Whatever happens, you have to fight through those things.
43:53 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
43:53 Speaker 00 And even when she's not feeling well, I feel this thing come over me. That's like, step off.
44:01 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
44:01 Speaker 00 Give her a moment.
44:02 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
44:03 Speaker 00 She's giving you 30 years of perfection, acting, singing, dancing. All of these things, she's giving it to you.
44:11 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
44:11 Speaker 00 So give her some grace.
44:13 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
44:13 Speaker 00 I'm not even asking for the grace for myself.
44:15 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
44:16 Speaker 00 That's, it just happened.
44:18 Michelle Obama? Was that part of the conversation that you all had? That sort of grown woman talk?
44:23 Speaker 00 No. No, it wasn't. Our conversation was strictly about what we felt for one another. And how much of that had, that, that transpired back then, that had nothing to do with either of us. That was all our conversation was about.
44:38 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
44:38 Craig Robinson? So Monica, can you talk a little bit about, for our listeners who don't know what you all went through early on, can you talk a little bit about it? Because I just came to know this story and I was appalled.
44:53 Speaker 00 Yes.
44:53 Craig Robinson? That the industry.
44:56 Michelle Obama? And the fans.
44:57 Craig Robinson? And the fans. And however it happened, you guys got pitted against each other without you even having any kind of real.
45:06 Michelle Obama? Beef.
45:07 Craig Robinson? Beef or any.
45:08 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
45:08 Craig Robinson? Just it it just was fabricated.
45:10 Speaker 00 It was fabricated, but things have a way of manifesting themselves.
45:14 Craig Robinson? Oh, oh, yeah.
45:15 Speaker 00 Just as the good does, the bad does. And that's really what happened. And when you think about it, it's not like we grew up with one another.
45:23 Craig Robinson? Right.
45:24 Speaker 00 I was in Atlanta, she was in California. We weren't even near each other to have a reason to have issues. But you see, it still happens now. The divisiveness can be so bizarre. If you see a shared stage, why would you come to this concert and act as if you're here for one and not the other? Or I'd rather this one, or I'd rather. Well, there's one option with this ticket, ma'am. This is the way it is. But we didn't have those strengths as youths to say, this is what we should do. And what happens is, once that train began to move, it was more like a freight train. Not a trolley. It was in motion and we couldn't stop it. And it became a very real thing.
46:08 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
46:09 Speaker 00 So we've taken that bull by the horns because the rivalry should be nonexistent. Listen, I do not compare myself vocally to her or her to me. Her tonation, her agility, the rasp, the way she does things. It is Brandy. Me, the strength, that gospel movement you hear even when I'm singing a love song. Those things are me. They're not to be compared or dissected. What makes the Boy is Mine so great is that the two of us are so different. But we had no idea that the song would fuel people's ideals as well.
46:47 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
46:48 Speaker 00 And so then we would wake up, morning shows, there would be skits about us. There would be fights that they would create. It was all in jokes and fun and it became very real for us.
46:58 Michelle Obama? And you all were how old at this time?
47:00 Speaker 00 I was seventeen, she was eighteen.
47:02 Michelle Obama? You know, babies.
47:03 Speaker 00 Babies.
47:04 Michelle Obama? You know.
47:04 Speaker 00 So if you imagine, this was our, this was our high school. So you know how the two popular girls get pitted against each other in a high school? That can be dangerous because one has an influence on one group. One has an influence on another group versus acknowledging that our influence and impact together is stronger than anything separate.
47:24 Michelle Obama? But a lot of this also has to do, when it comes to women minorities, they're only a handful of slots.
47:32 Speaker 00 Right.
47:32 Michelle Obama? Right, and that also fuels that battle.
47:35 Speaker 00 Right.
47:36 Michelle Obama? Whereas male performers, male groups, white.
47:40 Speaker 00 That's where it doesn't happen as much as with the men.
47:43 Michelle Obama? Because everybody can be.
47:45 Speaker 00 You put three of the men on one song and women don't choose, they scream for all three.
47:49 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
47:50 Speaker 00 You know, it's very different. It's more, it's less black and white and more male female, in my opinion. Or in what I found. And it is frustrating.
47:59 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
48:00 Speaker 00 But when our record was released, everywhere I would go, I'm Monica when I sing my part, or sometimes I'm Brandy, like, almost like you don't have to choose one.
48:11 Michelle Obama? Right.
48:11 Speaker 00 You know, every other song, you sing the backgrounds, the leads, the, sing both parts. Get over it. We're over it. Get over it. Join us, please.
48:20 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
48:21 Speaker 00 You know, so I'm hoping that what they've seen in these thirty-two cities, in all of the promos, in all of the moving around. You can't fake this.
48:30 Michelle Obama? No.
48:30 Speaker 00 You, you, you just can't. It's a lot of time you're together. You just can't.
48:34 Michelle Obama? Yeah, my, my, one of my favorite moments was when the two of you came on stage in the end in white and paid tribute to the queen, Ms. Whitney Houston. I mean, I teared up.
48:48 Speaker 00 Yeah.
48:48 Michelle Obama? Um, can you talk about that relationship and that moment in the concert for you all?
48:55 Speaker 00 Whitney was one of the few people that saw us for who we really were. And I think she and I had such a great relationship because although I was a huge fan of hers growing up, immediately upon meeting her, I felt that she wanted some space from that. So we didn't do fanfare a lot. We did a lot of sitting at my kitchen table.
49:20 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
49:21 Speaker 00 Her shoes off, laughing and talking.
49:26 Speaker 00 If Bob pissed her off, she could call my phone and tell me the story, just as I could call her and tell her the story, you know. We, we shared those moments a lot more than we shared working moments, if that makes sense.
49:40 Michelle Obama? Yes.
49:40 Speaker 00 So our relationship was, when you see in the montage, I'm there for her HBO special, but I don't even have makeup. I just have lipstick and my hair is in a ponytail because I'm really there as her little sister. Her, just wanting to show her that, yes, I admire you and I love you. You can just be yourself at all times. And she loved that I was okay with doing nothing. That was something she wanted a lot of. She wanted a lot of, she loved to watch them play cards. And Bobby and his sisters were big on getting together, cooking out. Like, that's what we would do in Atlanta a lot. And it was off record. There were no cameras.
50:24 Speaker 00 There were no, we didn't talk about work at all. And one thing she used to always say is, be you no matter what.
50:30 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
50:31 Speaker 00 Even if it doesn't feel good to them, it's gonna feel good to you later.
50:34 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
50:34 Speaker 00 I have been perfect for far longer than I, than I wanted to be. That was just what our relationship was.
50:40 Craig Robinson? So in speaking about, uh, uh, helping others, which we like to do with our listener question, but I wanna, I wanna ask you this.
50:49 Speaker 00 Okay.
50:49 Craig Robinson? Because I find your journey has been absolutely wonderful.
50:57 Craig Robinson? Is there anything now that you look back as a 45-year-old that you would have done differently when you were talking to the 14, 15, 16-year-old? That you can share?
51:12 Speaker 00 Yes.
51:15 Speaker 00 And it is only one thing.
51:18 Speaker 00 Only one thing.
51:20 Speaker 00 I would remind myself not to have or bear guilt for making it.
51:29 Speaker 00 There is a such thing as survivor's remorse. And it was heavy for me.
51:35 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
51:37 Speaker 00 Until I was 24 and gave birth for the first time. I spent a lot of time giving to, lifting up, paying for, leaning into.
51:50 Speaker 00 A lot of people that they just didn't mean me very much good. And my survivor's remorse kept me there.
52:00 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
52:00 Speaker 00 Because if I'm the one that made it out, I don't want you to think that I think I'm
52:04 Michelle Obama? That's right.
52:05 Speaker 00 Because I didn't.
52:05 Michelle Obama? That's right.
52:06 Speaker 00 But the reality is that some things you're blessed with, they are for you. They're not for everyone. And had I spent less time trying to give everything that was given to me to others.
52:21 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
52:21 Speaker 00 I would have done a lot more in that timeframe.
52:24 Michelle Obama? And that's how 16 year olds feel. That's how 21 year olds feel. The difference is that most people don't have enough to give away at that age.
52:36 Speaker 00 But in my world, seeing other celebrities, they adapted an arrogance. And you can't go.
52:42 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
52:42 Speaker 00 I am above and I despise that.
52:44 Michelle Obama? You didn't want to be that.
52:45 Speaker 00 I didn't want that at all.
52:46 Michelle Obama? But there's a place in between. When I talk to our kids, minority kids in college, I often try to address the issue of survivor's remorse because it happens to us, whether we're stars or wherever. If you've made it a little bit more than the people you've come from, that guilt is still there. And I see it a lot in kids who are going to college, you know? Maybe you were the one that got in. You were the one that got the scholarship and everybody's proud of you. But you're going to a place that your people never went. So you feel like you're leaving people behind. And a lot of times, kids in that position find themselves trying to bring everybody along.
53:31 Michelle Obama? Right? So they're, you know, wasting their scholarship money because they're using that to pay for
53:38 Speaker 00 My first time going broke, it was nothing that I did for myself.
53:42 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
53:43 Speaker 00 And guess what? Guess who asked for the least? My family.
53:47 Michelle Obama? Your family.
53:47 Speaker 00 My mother has never asked for anything.
53:50 Michelle Obama? That's our mother.
53:51 Speaker 00 She would not even retire from her job. She kept telling me about these packages and branches and plans. And my father, he, he did everything. He was a hustler and he worked on freights at Yellow Freights. That, it wasn't my family. It was the people that I felt the most guilty for feeling as if I was leaving them. And I wasn't leaving them. I was elevating myself and doing what God intended me to do. And I, I didn't have the maturity or the understanding.
54:21 Michelle Obama? That's right.
54:22 Speaker 00 And after losing everything, including a human being, you know, witnessing a suicide at a very young age and, and understanding that no one is going to help me fix what I'm feeling now. And I remember telling my mom that I was pregnant for the first time. And all of a sudden, all this stuff I asked her to do, she started doing it. She takes this package, she does the big goodbye over at Delta. I'm like, oh, this is what I had to do to get you over here?
54:52 Michelle Obama? She's like, bring a grandbaby in, I'm there.
54:55 Speaker 00 And she said, she said, but now you need me.
54:57 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
54:58 Speaker 00 Now you need me.
54:58 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
54:59 Speaker 00 You found your way in a way that's admirable. And God's been guiding you. Hold on to that.
55:07 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
55:07 Speaker 00 Hold on to his unchanging hand and then I'll be right here in the midst with you. And so I've never had nannies or anything like that. I mean, if I did it again, I would. My mother is about to be 75, I would not put it on her again.
55:19 Speaker 03 Right.
55:19 Speaker 00 But the reality is that I didn't know, I didn't know to let go, to just let go and elevate. Let go and work.
55:28 Michelle Obama? And that's the message, because we, we have a lot of young listeners. It's like, it's okay to let go because you, it's that oxygen mask theory. It's like, you can't help anybody while you're still becoming.
55:43 Speaker 00 Yeah.
55:50 Craig Robinson? This episode of IMO is brought to you by Theraplu. Theraplu, makers of fast-acting cold and flu relief, believes everyone deserves the right to rest and recover when they're sick, no matter where they live or how much money they make. When I was coaching, if I got sick, I found it hard to choose between taking time for myself to rest and heal and showing up for my family and my team. Luckily, I had the ability to take paid sick time when I really needed it, but not every American has that option. In 2021, Theraplu launched the Rest and Recover Fund, and they've committed more than $1 million to provide micro grants to families and individuals,
56:32 Craig Robinson? helping offset the cost of taking a sick day for those that don't have coverage. Everyone should be able to prioritize their health without risking their ability to put food on the table. That's why Theraplu is committed to keep fighting, because rest and recovery is a right, not a privilege. Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at theraplu.com/righttorecover.
57:03 Michelle Obama? I want to talk a little bit about Monica now, right? At 45, I mean, you've been a wise one, you know, someone beyond your years, all your life. And my belief is that you came here that way.
57:18 Speaker 00 Right.
57:18 Michelle Obama? You know, and I'm sure if your mother and father were here, they'd be like, yeah, as my mom would say, oh, she was like that.
57:26 Speaker 00 Oh, so.
57:27 Michelle Obama? She was always like that.
57:30 Michelle Obama? What I'm interested in for women who are in our maturing years, now I'm six, I will be 62, but I know that I am experiencing something very different in myself as the older I get, right? That I, that is so much better than youth.
57:53 Speaker 00 Yes.
57:55 Michelle Obama? And that, that's the opposite of what we're told, and it's the opposite of what society says to us, particularly as women.
58:03 Speaker 00 Yes.
58:04 Michelle Obama? I feel so much more grounded, powerful, beautiful, healthy, and it gets better with every decade.
58:16 Michelle Obama? Um, how do you, how are you experiencing your maturity? Cause you're nowhere near it, but you, you are becoming even more. How do you think about that? How do you articulate that?
58:28 Speaker 00 I always say this is the happiest I've ever been in every area of life. It seemed as if when I was younger, when business was great. Prime example. Breakup, then number one record. Like, well, damn. Couldn't they just go hand in hand? Couldn't you just be happily married and have a number one record? Those don't happen. You know, now the balance of joy in all things, it's really there. And I'm unapologetic. I think that's the most fun.
59:00 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
59:01 Speaker 00 When I don't wanna go. I don't feel like I need to give a reason.
59:05 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
59:05 Speaker 00 I'm not coming.
59:06 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
59:07 Speaker 00 When I don't feel okay. I don't have to explain it. I just don't feel okay today. I'm confident in those things and I know that anywhere I'm supposed to be, I'll be there. If something doesn't work out, I'm not crying about the things that don't happen anymore. There is just this joy that has overtaken. Now, I enjoy the way I look more now. I don't even pick it apart. I know what I like.
59:32 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
59:33 Speaker 00 I know what works on me, whether it's on trend or not.
59:35 Michelle Obama? Yes.
59:35 Speaker 00 It's what I'm buying, it's what I'm doing. It's that, it's, I don't know, it's just the joy. I like the way that I speak. I used to say, oh my God, that I, I might've said it too stern. That I don't question myself anymore. I said it exactly how I was supposed to. If you don't understand it, you're bad.
59:55 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
59:56 Speaker 00 You know, but there was a time where especially right at that 35 point, I became very concerned with how I made everyone else feel all the time.
1:00:05 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:00:05 Speaker 00 Maybe it was because I had just given birth to a girl for the first time. You know, I had the boys.
1:00:10 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:00:11 Speaker 00 And being a boy mom is very different than now you have this.
1:00:14 Michelle Obama? I don't know, I got two girls, but I've heard.
1:00:17 Speaker 00 Listen, it's different because that ball of emotions, when it happens and it's my time and her time in the same house.
1:00:25 Michelle Obama? Yes.
1:00:26 Speaker 00 Woo. What is this? You know, that's different because the boys used to just be like, you all right? You know, and now she's like, Mom, are you listening? You know, so they're, they're just totally different. But I'm so secure in who I am and who's with me and who's not. I'm OK with everything that I let go of. I'm OK with, I don't feel like there's an opportunity that I was supposed to have seized that I didn't.
1:00:52 Michelle Obama? I'm loving it. I'm loving it all. Don't y'all, y'all feel it, right?
1:00:56 Speaker 00 Yes, I see, I've had so many people say, oh, my God, I'm turning 30. And they have tears. Young lady that used to work for me, she cried for weeks before she turned 30. And so I looked at her, I said, do you know the alternative to not aging?
1:01:11 Speaker 00 The alternative is?
1:01:12 Michelle Obama? Yes.
1:01:12 Speaker 00 You know, as much as we all want to see our Lord and Savior one day, not today.
1:01:16 Michelle Obama? Yes.
1:01:16 Speaker 00 So the alternative for not aging is dying.
1:01:19 Michelle Obama? That's right.
1:01:19 Speaker 00 And many of us didn't make it. We're one of the ones who did. So when do you celebrate that? I say 45 so fast, and if you catch me.
1:01:27 Michelle Obama? Right.
1:01:27 Speaker 00 If you catch me in September, I'll be saying 46. So you can prepare.
1:01:32 Michelle Obama? This is what my staff does. Crystal says it all the time. I'm gonna be 62 in January. But I've been saying I'm gonna be, I'm 62.
1:01:41 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:01:41 Michelle Obama? Because it's coming.
1:01:42 Speaker 00 It's coming.
1:01:43 Michelle Obama? And they're like, you're not, ma'am, you're not 62, you're 61. It's like, well, it's coming. You round, I'm there.
1:01:49 Speaker 00 I'm rounding it off because I want to be there.
1:01:52 Craig Robinson? Yeah.
1:01:52 Speaker 00 I want to get there.
1:01:53 Michelle Obama? Yes, every year is success.
1:01:56 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:01:56 Michelle Obama? Right?
1:01:57 Speaker 00 And when I look at some of the youngers, I'm really proud of all of us. Because some of the 25s, our 45s, we're holding up. But it's how we see ourselves. It's how we take care of ourselves. It's how we love ourselves.
1:02:13 Michelle Obama? That's right.
1:02:14 Speaker 00 Because if you're beating up on you, you start to look like what you've been through. I don't want to look like what I've been through.
1:02:21 Michelle Obama? Right.
1:02:21 Speaker 00 I don't want to do that.
1:02:22 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:02:23 Speaker 00 So I'm, I'm happy.
1:02:25 Michelle Obama? Maybe this is a good time to segue to our listener question. Because that's also an important part.
1:02:32 Speaker 00 Oh, wow.
1:02:33 Michelle Obama? Of IMO is that we try to impart wisdom on some of our listeners who call in with questions.
1:02:41 Speaker 00 OK.
1:02:41 Michelle Obama? You think it's a good time?
1:02:43 Craig Robinson? I, whatever you say.
1:02:45 Speaker 00 I love you guys' relationship. My brother would definitely, Montez would definitely be like, so you, so you.
1:02:54 Speaker 04 I'm turning 34 soon and most of my friends are having babies. I've never strongly wanted to be a mother and my partner is fully supportive of that. But recently, I've been feeling torn. Most days, I'm certain I don't want kids. But others, I feel like I'm missing out. How can I tell if those feelings come from social pressure, hormones, or a real desire to be a mom?
1:03:24 Michelle Obama? And she said she's 34. She's 34. 34. So she, clock ticking.
1:03:30 Speaker 00 That's what they tell us.
1:03:32 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:03:33 Speaker 00 That's what they tell us.
1:03:34 Michelle Obama? That's what they tell us.
1:03:36 Speaker 00 Well, see, this, this one is hard because, again, everything is faith-based for me and my family, right? So what I would do if I were her, I would start praying and journaling about all of my feelings. Don't get pregnant in the midst of that. Because that will simply just compile those feelings even more.
1:04:03 Michelle Obama? They figure it out.
1:04:03 Speaker 00 You figure it out first because becoming a parent is, until you leave this earth, you will be parenting.
1:04:12 Michelle Obama? We were talking about that walking in.
1:04:14 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:04:15 Michelle Obama? It just changes, but it is constant.
1:04:19 Speaker 00 I am just as concerned about my 21-year-old as I was when he was 12 or when he was 2.
1:04:25 Michelle Obama? And people, we don't talk about that as parents. I mean, it's just sort of like, have a baby.
1:04:29 Speaker 00 Right. The concerns just change.
1:04:31 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:04:31 Speaker 00 They change.
1:04:32 Michelle Obama? Forever and ever and ever amen.
1:04:34 Speaker 00 It is the forever commitment. And it is an act that you have to be in the most selfless state of mind to do well.
1:04:42 Michelle Obama? Yes.
1:04:42 Speaker 00 Parenting is not done well if you are your first thought.
1:04:46 Michelle Obama? Yes.
1:04:47 Speaker 00 And there will be some people that argue with me about that. But I don't care what you say. If you wake up in the morning and your first thought is you, you're not ready.
1:04:56 Michelle Obama? That's right.
1:04:57 Speaker 00 You're not ready.
1:04:58 Michelle Obama? That's right.
1:04:59 Speaker 00 Because when I wake up, It just alternates between which one of them. I've gone to sleep thinking about accommodating, checking on something for, organizing with, praying for or with. I mean, even with a 12-year-old, you pull up to school, you, I have already started her. She prays with me before she gets out of the car. Because I need her to be able to navigate, navigate her day with a clear mind and know who she is and whose she is.
1:05:30 Michelle Obama? Yes.
1:05:31 Speaker 05 But did that happen before you had a child?
1:05:34 Michelle Obama? No, did that happen before you had a child?
1:05:36 Speaker 00 Did it happen before I had a child?
1:05:40 Michelle Obama? What, somebody?
1:05:41 Speaker 05 Not thinking about yourself.
1:05:42 Speaker 00 Well, the difference is, is that I always wanted to be a parent. So I was a child that would play with, you know. I was always the child that was destined. I didn't get to meet my grandfather, Alfonso Page, right? I didn't get to meet him. He was killed in a car accident before I was born. And my Aunt Ruth, who just recently passed, wrote me a letter when I got married about how my mother, per their father's words, was born to be a mom. And that she saw these same things in me. And remember, my mom thought I would be a pediatrician because I always would gather the kids. So I always wanted to be a parent.
1:06:27 Speaker 00 I tell my friends that say they aren't sure, don't move.
1:06:31 Michelle Obama? Right.
1:06:32 Speaker 00 Be still and know.
1:06:34 Michelle Obama? See, Crystal, we've been having this conversation for like two years.
1:06:39 Speaker 00 Really? Be still.
1:06:41 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:06:42 Speaker 00 Until you know. Because it is the one thing that children suffer the most when you aren't ready. When you don't want it, when you don't love it.
1:06:53 Michelle Obama? Or you, or when you don't know your why, right? I think that. If you were just trying to have a child before you've thought about why.
1:07:04 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:07:04 Michelle Obama? Right?
1:07:05 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:07:05 Michelle Obama? Because your why completely alters how you will parent.
1:07:11 Speaker 00 It does.
1:07:12 Michelle Obama? Right? Because if you were having a child because you are lonely.
1:07:17 Speaker 00 Yes, or your mate wants one.
1:07:19 Michelle Obama? Right, or you want a mini me.
1:07:21 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:07:23 Michelle Obama? Or, you know, you, you want somebody to love you unconditionally.
1:07:29 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:07:29 Michelle Obama? Right? To me, those are all the wrong reasons.
1:07:33 Speaker 00 All the wrong.
1:07:33 Michelle Obama? You know?
1:07:34 Speaker 00 And if you haven't dealt with your childhood traumas, then you, you almost just put those onto your children. That's why I say it's a selfless act. Even co-parenting, because guess what? You know, people, the conversation was very heavy. When I gave birth to the boys, I wasn't married. When I had my daughter, I was, right? I've done it both ways. The requirements are still the same. Because guess what? I still ended up a single parent both times. So the reality, even though I spent decades with each person, I haven't been with many people.
1:08:06 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:08:06 Speaker 00 The reality is still that I am their mother 24 hours a day. What they require, it is important for me to make sure I am speaking to and teaching to that. If I can't bring my feelings out of it.
1:08:24 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:08:25 Speaker 00 Some of the time, especially when you're co-parenting. If you can't pull yourself out of it, you're not going to do what's right for them.
1:08:32 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:08:33 Speaker 00 So you're not ready. But, but I do hate that now people are looking at the biological clock.
1:08:39 Michelle Obama? Yes.
1:08:39 Speaker 00 Versus the maturity, the stability.
1:08:42 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:08:43 Speaker 00 And the full-on preparation it takes to be a good parent.
1:08:48 Michelle Obama? And that's why I always say, I, I want, I try to promote the notion that it is completely okay not to have kids.
1:08:56 Speaker 00 It is.
1:08:56 Michelle Obama? Ever.
1:08:57 Speaker 00 You'll definitely be more wealthy.
1:08:59 Michelle Obama? Exactly.
1:08:59 Speaker 00 They are expensive.
1:09:00 Michelle Obama? Exactly.
1:09:01 Speaker 00 They are an expensive commitment.
1:09:02 Michelle Obama? Forever and ever, amen. They never go away.
1:09:08 Craig Robinson? If I may, because I'm not a woman, so.
1:09:12 Michelle Obama? No.
1:09:12 Craig Robinson? But this reinforces. This reinforces what I think is important for men. Just listening to you and understanding Catalina's issue.
1:09:28 Craig Robinson? Is you have to pick the right partner.
1:09:31 Michelle Obama? Amen.
1:09:32 Craig Robinson? For anything. You have to pick the right partner. I mean, I, I, you know, what you said, Monica, about parenting is forever. Nish, you always say know your why, that's all right. And dealing with your childhood trauma. All of that is really important. But for the men out there. You see what women are going through to make this decision. It is really important to pick your right partner if you want to have children.
1:10:02 Michelle Obama? So that's another way of saying men should be as cautious.
1:10:05 Craig Robinson? Is.
1:10:06 Michelle Obama? As we're saying women need to be.
1:10:09 Speaker 00 Well, you all put it very nicely. You should hear my conversations with my son.
1:10:12 Michelle Obama? What do you say to your sons?
1:10:14 Speaker 00 I cannot say it here.
1:10:15 Michelle Obama? Okay.
1:10:15 Speaker 00 But I do, I keep it very honest. I keep it very honest because they don't have a mother that would ever support them doing anything other than being great fathers.
1:10:25 Michelle Obama? Yes.
1:10:26 Speaker 00 That is a non-negotiable.
1:10:27 Michelle Obama? Yep.
1:10:27 Speaker 00 Because I know what single parenting feels like.
1:10:31 Craig Robinson? Mm-hmm.
1:10:31 Speaker 00 And if there is a way to make sure that they have healthy, whole relationships and both parents, that's the goal.
1:10:41 Michelle Obama? Yep.
1:10:42 Speaker 00 That it's never not the goal.
1:10:43 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
1:10:44 Speaker 00 And so I use myself and my own choices and my experiences very openly for them to make theirs.
1:10:51 Michelle Obama? Yep. My firm message is, first of all, it is absolutely fine not to want children. It is not selfish. It is probably the most unselfish thing you can do. Is to, is to choose to be a parent.
1:11:06 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:11:07 Michelle Obama? But like you said, Monica, because once you choose it. Society needs you to be really good at it. And Barack had the nerve to be like, we can have three or four. And I was like, well, you're president now. That's our third child. I don't have room on this schedule. But that's just, that's just me. So.
1:11:30 Craig Robinson? Well, Monica, this has been a real treat for me.
1:11:34 Speaker 00 It was so good to meet you. You were the first person that I brought up when she and I saw each other. I said, you do know. I have a brother and we don't play about each other. And I love watching you two communicate.
1:11:46 Craig Robinson? Of course, she didn't tell me.
1:11:47 Speaker 00 You didn't?
1:11:48 Craig Robinson? No.
1:11:49 Speaker 00 Didn't I say that?
1:12:11 Craig Robinson? This episode is brought to you by Cologuard. I knew that I shouldn't delay screening for colon cancer. And Cologuard has made that process 1 million times easier for all of us. I just answered a few questions about my age and medical history. And once their licensed clinician determined I was eligible, they issued the prescription and the Cologuard Plus kit was sent right to my home. No doctor's office visit necessary. For me, there was just immediate relief in getting it done. It cost me $0 with my insurance. It took me truly 15 minutes. And now I can rest easier knowing I screened properly. Plus, if you get a negative result, you generally don't need a repeat Cologuard test for three years.
1:12:55 Craig Robinson? If you're 45 or older and at average risk, it's time to screen for colon cancer, even if you feel perfectly healthy. And Cologuard Plus gives you an option you can use right at home. Talk to your health care provider about screening for colon cancer with Cologuard or request it online today at Cologuard.com, where they have an easy telehealth option. Don't wait. Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use if you have had a personal history of colorectal cancer or polyps, have inflammatory bowel disease, a family history of colorectal cancer, or certain hereditary syndromes, or a positive result from another colon cancer screening method within that test recommended screening interval. Cologuard results should be interpreted with caution as false positives and false negatives do occur. Available by prescription only.
Previous One Year of IMO with Michelle and Craig Next Building a Legacy with Ayesha and Stephen Curry Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
