#2250 - Raekwon

Raekwon is a founding member of the Wu-Tang Clan, critically acclaimed solo artist, author, and entrepreneur. https://linktr.ee/RaekwonTheChef This episode is brought to you by AG1. Take ownership of your health with AG1 and get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 AND 5 free Travel Packs with your first subscription. Go to http://drinkag1.com/joerogan Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to http://RocketMoney.com/jre or scan the QR code today! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  That's it, the chef is in the building, ladies and gentlemen.

• 0:16Speaker 02

  What's up, what's up?

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  Pleasure to meet you, man. You are a part of the most iconic band in all of hip-hop. There is no question. There's one Wu-Tang. There's only one Wu-Tang. Nothing else is even close. You guys are so different than every other band that ever existed. It was a giant group of you.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, man.

• 0:34Joe Rogan?

  And everybody was a killer.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  Fucking mob, man.

• 0:37Joe Rogan?

  It's a crazy band, man. Like, no one is...if you think about it, there's been a lot of hip-hop duos, there's been a lot of producers and MCs, there's been a lot of people that get together in like, small groups. But there's only one Wu-Tang. There's only one group of nine assassins.

• 0:54Speaker 02

  I tell niggas that all the time, like...

• 0:57Joe Rogan?

  It's kinda crazy.

• 0:58Speaker 02

  You ain't gonna get another one of these.

• 1:00Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy that it worked.

• 1:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's so hard to keep all those alphas together.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  It really is crazy. To make it work, the most illest shit, some shit that I never would've thought would ever exist, it was able to exist because we tried it, but it wasn't...it wasn't normal.

• 1:19Joe Rogan?

  It wasn't nor...well, you tried it, but it was just...it almost seems like it was just instinct. Like, it's not like a business strategy that anybody would ever come up with.

• 1:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:30Joe Rogan?

  Nine dudes?

• 1:31Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 1:31Joe Rogan?

  And nine of the realest dudes? Like, the rawest, realest dudes?

• 1:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37Joe Rogan?

  And it worked?

• 1:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it worked.

• 1:38Joe Rogan?

  And it worked?

• 1:39Speaker 02

  I tell people all the time, it was like, when RZA, you know, he came with this whole philosophy of wanting to do it, it was like hitting the lotto for him. Like, he didn't know what to expect. It was more a reputation thing for us. It was like, "Yo, I wanna do this." And, you know, he came to the block and he talked to some real dudes that was really...had other shit planned in their life, you know? But hip-hop was always like that backpack that we wore every day. But everybody had different plans, so he really, literally came in and started to pick motherfuckers that he felt had potential. So it's like the mob. It's like, you know... You know Lucky Luciano, prime example. You know, he knew that motherfuckers had potential, right? He knew dudes had potential in any way.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  He's from a different part, he's from a different part, he's from a different part. But yo, what we could do right here is we could make money. So put your fucking feelings down, or whatever the case may be, and let's talk about some money.

• 2:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  And that right there, kinda like, yo, he starts shaking hands across the table. "Y'all know you didn't really fuck with me like that, y'all. I never had anything against you like that, though." But it just, it was just something that he felt like at the end of the day, let me try this shit.

• 2:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, RZA is a genius, and it's amazing that he was able to coordinate that. Because that's often the case, right? With other killers, like... This episode is presented by Searchlight Pictures' Wild Horse 9. Shortly before Chile's 1973 coup, two CIA agents, played by John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, find their mission on Easter Island spiraling into a web of conspiracies, unexpected alliances, and chaos. Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight, and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature.

• 3:39Joe Rogan?

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• 4:23Joe Rogan?

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• 5:34Joe Rogan?

  When a dude's a bad motherfucker, they always assume that everybody else doesn't like them. They always assume that everybody else is the enemy or competition. So to have nine of you guys together like that as one group, you know, we always, I told you when I sent you a message, I said that we play protect your neck. It's like, whenever we have a police escort, that's what's the most hilarious thing. So we do arena shows, we hire a police escort. So it's like fucking sirens and shit, protect your neck. The whole, it's like the perfect song to play when you're, when you're getting a police escort.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  Oh my God. Nah, I know. I know. Trust me.

• 6:10Joe Rogan?

  These young kids that I have at the club, like I was explaining Wu-Tang Clan to them the other night. I go, you have to understand how wild this band was. I go, when Old Dirty Bastard was in Rikers, they went to Rikers and performed in Rikers.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  You remember that?

• 6:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes!

• 6:25Speaker 02

  How the fuck you remember that?

• 6:26Joe Rogan?

  I told everybody else, like, you know how crazy that is? You're talking about like the biggest rap band in the fucking world and they're performing in a penitentiary to one of the members who's one of the biggest fucking hip hop stars in the world who's in jail and then you guys go into the crowd.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  God bless his soul, first and foremost.

• 6:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, Old Dirty Bastard was a classic.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Yo Joe is the funniest shit because when we came in and when we seen him, he was eating a cheeseburger laughing and shit. You know, he remind you, he never, he never was, you know, dirty, he, I don't even think, I never seen him eat meat like that or whatever the case may be, but we came in, he was eating a cheeseburger and shit laughing. So we was dying laughing. And they kept, you know, the people up in there, they kept telling us like, yo, y'all can't, y'all can't go into the, to the, to the, to the, um, crowd with everybody, you know, we not gonna hold no responsibility if something happen. So you know, be like, alright, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, who you going in? Once we got on that stage, it was like, fuck the stage, we out there touching everybody and

• 7:30Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  It was love, man, it was a lot of love. Man, it had to be what, I say what, ninety, what, ninety, ninety-eight, ninety-seven?

• 7:42Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Ninety-eight?

• 7:44Joe Rogan?

  No internet.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  Probably like, yeah, none of that shit.

• 7:46Joe Rogan?

  None of that. Wow, is there even a recording of that anywhere?

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Nah, I don't think so, I don't think so.

• 7:52Joe Rogan?

  You know how wild that video would be?

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I never knew that people seen that, I don't know how the fuck you knew that shit, like.

• 7:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I heard about it. Yeah, I heard about it. I mean, it was in the news back then, that you guys performed in Rikers.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, man.

• 8:07Joe Rogan?

  The nineties for hip-hop, it was like, people need, you have to understand, for young people, you grew up with hip-hop, you're only twenty years old, I get it. But you have to understand from my perspective, in the nineteen, in nineteen eighty, there was no hip-hop. In nineteen ninety-two, that was all anybody gave a fuck about. That is crazy for a new art form.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  To emerge, right?

• 8:31Joe Rogan?

  Right, I mean, there was like Sugar Hill Gang, there was some hip-hop, but it wasn't the thing until the nineties. And nineties hip-hop.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  It got big, it got big, yeah.

• 8:41Joe Rogan?

  It got so big.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  I remember, I remember, it's so crazy you said that because I tell people all the time, like, disco to me was hip-hop before hip-hop was. You know, um, disco, um, R and B, everything was a mixture, it was a mixture. So, really, when hip-hop came, like you said, it came like

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Maybe I'm I'm gonna say eighties, eighty-five.

• 9:08Joe Rogan?

  It had to be eighty-four, cuz I was in junior high school.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, we was young boys, right? So I would definitely say, you you heard something and it was like, oh shit, motherfuckers is rhyming. Wow, you know, this shit sound cool though, you know what I mean, it sound cool. But really, it it was a way to bring people together. You know, that was going through different shit in their life, you know what I mean?

• 9:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you know what, it was earlier than that, because in eighty-four, I was in high school, so it had to be eighty.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Eighty.

• 9:37Joe Rogan?

  Because I was in high school, I was a freshman in high school in eighty-one, so I heard Sugar Hill Gang when I lived in Jamaica Plain, which was in nineteen eighty. So that was the first time I'd ever heard any kind of hip-hop.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like, yeah, like we said, yeah, eighty, yeah, I was ten years old, so. Me, probably, really, really gravitating to it, I I probably was like twelve, like you said, twelve.

• 10:00Joe Rogan?

  What was the first hip-hop that really grabbed you? Do you remember? Do you remember like what what was the shit that you were first into when you were a kid? All right, folks, it's that time of year, everyone is on a mission to improve their health and wellness habits and set the tone for twenty twenty-five by sticking to a routine. And while sticking to a healthy routine isn't always easy, it's so worth it. And you all know that I've been using AG1 for years. It's honestly been so supportive of my foundational nutrition. AG1 is a daily health drink that combines vitamins, minerals, superfoods, and more in just one scoop. And many traditional supplements are poorly absorbed, but AG1 is designed for maximum nutrient absorption and is packed with micronutrients that are hard to get in your everyday diet.

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• 11:12Joe Rogan?

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• 13:16Speaker 02

  Um, the first shit that that grabbed me was, like how you said, Sugar Hill Gang, you know? Um, Rap is the Light.

• 13:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Rap is the Light.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  That was the shit.

• 13:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Now, look, I had cousins. I had cousins, I had wild cousins and shit, they was, you know, they was wild, they was selling drugs, they was, you know, smoking weed and sniffing coke and, you know what I mean, doing whatever they was doing. And, um, they used to live two, they used to live two floors above me. And, um, I used to sneak up there and shit and, you know, just being a business, being a world and they would be playing music, they had the record player, you know, you see coke on the table and

• 13:58Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  weed and everything and my cousins, they was cool, they was like, yo, come in, man, we don't give a fuck, like, just don't tell your mother that you, that you was around this shit, you know what I mean? Nah, nah, I ain't gonna say nothing, I ain't gonna say nothing. And I would just be watching and, you know, I would see weed on the album covers and, you know what I mean, just motherfuckers running back and forth in the room and you know they in the shit, but they always was playing music. And a lot of the music was R and B, you know, disco, um, you know, and then next thing you know, I heard this fucking record, um, Sugar Hill Gang and I'm like, the groove was dope, I'm like, holy shit, like, this is what I wanna be, you know what I mean? I'm looking at the whole vibe, I'm like, this is who I am right here, you know, but.

• 14:41Joe Rogan?

  It's so crazy how it emerged, I mean, it emerged.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, nobody expected that, bro.

• 14:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, it was a totally new thing.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:49Joe Rogan?

  And there was a lot of resistance, I mean, for people that don't know, those little warning labels on your, uh, when you used to have CDs, that all came from Al Gore's wife.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Get the fuck outta here.

• 15:01Joe Rogan?

  Al Gore's wife, Tipper Gore, she was a Democrat, she wanted a sense of rap music.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Oh, shit.

• 15:08Joe Rogan?

  Because this was the first time anybody heard like Ice T, you know, like that Six in the Morning, everyone was like, what the fuck is this?

• 15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 15:15Joe Rogan?

  You know, and that kind of explicit lyrics, they wanted to put a stop to it and that's why they put, and these dumbasses, they didn't even understand, it sold way more albums.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:24Joe Rogan?

  Because that's what kids were looking for. Where's the fucking, this, they don't even swear? Get this shit out of here.

• 15:30Speaker 02

  Once they got the label on it, it's like I want it.

• 15:32Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Once the floodgates got open and kids got turned on to like real hardcore hip hop, you couldn't sell the, the.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  The regular shit.

• 15:41Joe Rogan?

  The regular shit, like get out of here with that.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:44Joe Rogan?

  I mean, there's a few guys who got through with regular shit, but it just didn't last.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Nah, it definitely didn't last. But like you said though, everybody wanted the raw shit. And you gotta remember at that time, it was a tough time, man. Too much shit was going on. I mean, it was to the point where it's like, yo, in our neighborhood, we had, we had like crazy people. Like if they catch you at night, they'll kill you. Like, they'd be dressed up like a fucking drag or whatever, all this makeup on and, you know, I remember one time going to the incinerator room. My moms made me go, she made me go to the, um, to the, um, take out the garbage and shit. I forgot to take it out and she came home later that day and I was laying down and she fucking smacked me in the head with a broom like, yo, they not tell you to take out the fucking garbage? So now I'm going out to the incinerator room, you know, walk in, it's, it's on the same floor.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  And I remember when I cut the corner, I seen a motherfucker sticking his head out. And he had his hair all wild, his shit was like green and red and all this. And he had lipstick on all crazy and his eyes is all fucking bugged out looking and he looked at me. And when, and I got the garbage pail with me and it's like, yo, once I seen him, I just turn, I just dropped the shit and ran, mom, mom. You know what I mean? Back then, you know, you yell your mother name and shit. You think that, that that was something cool back then. You know, she's your hero at that time. Came back, then he was gone. But I think if he would have caught me in that incinerator door when it was closed, he was gonna probably try to run in there and probably try to fucking kill me or something. And that shit was going on back then because the drugs,

• 17:17Speaker 02

  the drugs was crazy back then.

• 17:19Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's the big shift is crack.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:21Joe Rogan?

  That's also in the eighties.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, but see, but see before crack, you had that dope. That dope, that dope. So motherfuckers is mixing dope and coke together, man. Getting high and shooting it. Yeah, everything. You know what I mean? It was, it was a serious time back then, man. But, you know, that's how far to me. Music went back, you know, listening to Ladies Night. You know what I mean, I had, I had people on my store that had a candy store. Right on the same floor, but it wasn't a candy store, they had a bunch of penny candy just to. Make kids feel cool, but really they were selling coke in the back. Coke and dope though, so you know, all this was going on in the community, man. It was, it was a serious time, scary times back then.

• 18:05Joe Rogan?

  But if it's not for those scary times. You don't get the kind of band that Wu-Tang was like that, that has to emerge from an authentic experience.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 18:14Joe Rogan?

  It has to, like, and that's part of the appeal of it is that everybody kinda knew that. You know, it was part of the appeal, it was, it, there's never been like. A genre of music like that, that's so connected. To like the grind and poverty and crime and ghettos, like the whole genre of me, to be authentic. You had to come from that, you couldn't be like some rich kid from the suburbs that was talking about some shit you'd never actually experienced. Nobody wants to hear it, which is kinda crazy.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  Right, that's true, I mean, you know, back then, you know, hip hop was really. An expression for the ghetto. You know, the way that out, you know, being that we was living in fucked up situations and. Nobody had shit, nobody had no fucking jobs like that. It was like, yo, we needed something to. Keep us cool, keep us in a vibe mode, you know, back then gangs was still relevant. You know, um. We never looked at ourselves as a gang, we might have looked at ourselves as a tribe. That yo, when you from a neighborhood and. You stick to your neighborhood, you know what I mean, and that's why even back then, it was like a lot of times. You know, you would beef with people.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  That wasn't from your neighborhood, just because you wasn't from here, it's like, yo, what the fuck you doing over here, you don't live over here. You know, then it creates this animosity thing, and I remember for us, you know, being. Being in an area where. It was like you go up the block, up the block stayed up the block, down the block stayed down the block. So for me, I was in the middle. So you know. I, I lean more towards up the block. You know, but then we would go down the block just to start trouble and, you know, then they would come up the block and they would start troubling. Next thing you know, before you know it, we all fucking with each other, you know what I mean? So, that was our way of getting to know each other is to test each other's heart.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  And, um, whatever may happen was happening back then though. But the music, believe it or not, the music was keeping the peace. Now, just to, you know, the music was keeping the peace because they would do block parties, right? They would do block parties and, um, you know, everybody knew all these different DJs was coming from different places and going, and gonna, um, gonna play some music and shit. So, we knew every time they did that, we knew something was gonna happen at the end of the night. It was just mandatory. It was just because people from all over, different, different, um, neighborhoods would come out. And, um, everything would be nice and next thing you know, you see a motherfucker riding down the street all crazy, you know,

• 20:55Speaker 02

  you know, trying to hit motherfuckers and swinging the golf club out the fucking, out the window and shit and, you know, somebody mother might have got knocked out, you know what I mean, um, you know, um, but the music is still playing, you know, so, um, yeah, that's the type of shit that, to me, that made it fun, but made it spooky, but it still was fun because it was something to remember.

• 21:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's fun because you survived.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, yeah, definitely, you know, the Bible, yeah, you know, but we were young, so, we didn't, we didn't care about, we didn't care about whether we live or die at that time. We didn't give a fuck. It was like, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen.

• 21:34Joe Rogan?

  That's wild.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  But the music, the music is what kept things in order for us, you know, because we always felt like that was a vessel to being calm, you know, when you come from somewhere that's fucked up, Joe, and there's nothing there, you can't get a job because of your community, your zip code don't allow you to be like, yo, he's hired. No, it's, it's too infested over there. So, you kind of, you kind of become relaxed with that mentality of saying, well, fuck it. I'mma live off the land. I'ma sell weed, I'ma do whatever I think that is gonna make me survive, you know? So, everything was just survival, you know?

• 22:17Speaker 02

  When, um, music always kept us calm and you always wanna listen to what's the next being played. Like, I, I grew up on R and B music, like disco and, um, you know, all that, all that fun shit. Roller skating, you know, I knew motherfuckers in the neighborhood that was roller skating. You know, um, we would get off of Staten Island sometimes and go to these different parks and jams in the city. That was fun too, though, that was, that was fun times for us.

• 22:49Joe Rogan?

  When, was it, so was it RZA that tried, did, did, was it initially all nine guys? Like, how did it get formed?

• 22:56Speaker 02

  Hmm, well, number one, um, it was RZA, his cousin JZA, and his other cousin, Old Dirty Bastard, that they were super close. Now, Old Dirty Bastard and JZA, they were from Brooklyn. RZA was from Staten Island. Um, you know, we all, we all Brooklyn babies too, majority of us in the clan. We all, you know, resided in New, in Staten Island, but majority of us grew up in Brooklyn. But, anyway, it was those three that were close as shit. So, RZA, back then, RZA, he had knowledge of self, which was, you know, being involved with the Nation of Islam.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  And also, JZA and Old Dirty, they were a part of the Nation at that time. So, they would go to a lot of rallies. This is a place where everybody go when they build, they talking about mathematics and all of this. But, it was JZA and Old Dirty who instilled the hip-hop into RZA. So, RZA was a DJ back then, but he knew how to rhyme too, and he knew how to rhyme because of his cousins. So, they kinda had this gang called, not a gang, but they had this thing called the All and Together Now Crew, which was them three, and they would run around and they would battle, you know, different guys from different cities and move around. So, you know, some was kinda knew what they were about.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  You know, a lot of us, you know, found out later who they were, but when Jizza and old Dirty came to Staten Island, they came and they hang out with their cousin. So, you know, we started to see them a little bit more and know that, you know, yo, I heard about your rhymes and, you know, and Dirty, he was just a crazy motherfucker back then. He was crazy, but um, yeah, they, they had their own little thing going on. And then, you know, next thing you know, Jizza caught a record deal. He caught a record deal, which was rare back then. Like, if you had, if you fucking caught a record deal, that mean that you had to have relationships? You had to know where to go. You had to have some type, some type of connects. So that's what gravitated RZA into wanting to, to do it because he seen that his cousin

• 25:08Speaker 02

  had, had, was able to, you know, crack the code on making a record. So when that happened, it was almost like it magnet, it magnetized RZA to be like, yo, I gotta make a record now too.

• 25:19Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  You know, and the next thing you know, that's, they had their movement going on. So us from the outside looking, it was like, oh shit, yo, we know them, we know they super passionate about, you know, being in the game and doing whatever they gonna do, but we wasn't thinking that far. We just loved the music in general.

• 25:40Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So, and then, so RZA is essentially the mastermind to put all the pieces together and to bring all you killers into one, under one roof.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 25:51Joe Rogan?

  Amazing how he saw that, because again, that's not something that existed.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:56Joe Rogan?

  It's like Eric B and Rakim, you know, there was, you know, there was a few, EPMD, there's a few people.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  You know your shit, dude. You know your shit.

• 26:03Joe Rogan?

  Gangstar, there was a few people that were together, but it wasn't like you guys.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Nah, nah, because.

• 26:08Joe Rogan?

  It was kinda scary. It was like, god damn, when you guys had a show. I mean, I heard stores, that it was just like, you guys would show up like three hundred people.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was, you know, that was some neighborhood shit, but um, yeah, like you said, that was so rare to see a group that come out like that, and it was really a mistake. It wasn't really designed to be that way, but when RZA had a record situation and they tried to make him be something that he wasn't. And then, you know.

• 26:36Joe Rogan?

  Always the case.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? He was like, yo, fuck that. I don't even care about the shit at this level no more. I wanna create this now and I'm bringing in all my guys and, you know, he just, he just put that number together. So, believe it or not, I was one of the guys that he called first because we used to hang out. Like, like I, I tell people all the time, like, yo, I might have been RZA's first, you know, big fan. So I kinda seen something in him already. I seen something. I'm like, yo, this guy really, you know, him and his cousins. And I'm like, yo, these motherfuckers really got talent, you know? Not only the ability to rhyme, but they was clever, like, I'm talking about clever rhymes.

• 27:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  You know, and he was mixing it with the knowledge and, you know, smart rhymes, not, not these fucking regular humpty dumpty lines, like, I'm talking about serious rhymes.

• 27:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  I'm like, damn, you know what I mean? Like, yo, so, you know, this is something that I felt like I would wanna go chill with them just to be in the mix and be a fly on the wall. Wasn't even thinking about being no fucking rapper. I didn't give a fuck. I just loved the music, but I'm watching these motherfuckers, yo. I'm like, something about these motherfuckers that I love.

• 27:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  You know, and next thing you know, when RZA, you know, RZA went out there and he came back to the, um, community, he was like, yo, I caught a record deal. So, you know, I was there. I'm like, let me see this shit, looking at this shit. She was the fucking, oh, yeah, I'm looking down here, like you said, the, the what's her name, the.

• 28:07Joe Rogan?

  Fine Print?

• 28:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Fine Print and shit. I'm like, yo, this motherfucking man record, holy shit, yo. Bow, Staten Island, that's what's up. We up. You know, but his situation ain't work out the way he wanted it to. And that's when he came back and he started to be like, yo, chef, this is what I'm trying to do.

• 28:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, the dangerous thing for young artists in every industry is when you have potential and you're young, you sign a fucking contract and you don't know what's going on. And then you get locked into these people. And then a lot of times, you're getting fucked. And you don't even know you're getting fucked.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  It's mandatory.

• 28:40Joe Rogan?

  Mandatory.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Mandatory, yeah.

• 28:42Joe Rogan?

  You're getting fucked, which is how they make their money. They make money by fucking young artists. who don't know any better and by the time someone gets to like a prince's level he's like oh you owe me I'm I'm a fucking squeaky line suck my dick he performs as a symbol I mean that's why he performed as a symbol because they owned him

• 28:59Speaker 02

  yeah

• 29:00Joe Rogan?

  it's crazy you take like the most talented people in the world and they get owned by people who provide no value

• 29:06Speaker 02

  yeah

• 29:06Joe Rogan?

  especially today

• 29:07Speaker 02

  yeah

• 29:08Joe Rogan?

  today it's even crazier right because there is no record sales anymore it's all gone

• 29:12Speaker 02

  sober baby

• 29:13Joe Rogan?

  it's all gone so for a young artist so important that they stay independent as long as they can just like you're hanging off a bridge hang on hang on and keep grinding don't sell it don't sign if you sign you're gonna be fighting that shit ten years from now you're gonna be in court ten years from now

• 29:31Speaker 02

  yeah you right

• 29:31Joe Rogan?

  and somebody's gonna be getting not just fifty percent but like some fucking insane like Bill Burr was explaining this about his his first comedy CD that he got a sixty forty deal he's like oh great sixty forty but it's not really sixty forty because he has to pay for all the distribution all the all the printing of the CDs everything came out of his money

• 29:54Speaker 02

  let me ask you a question let me ask you a question put yourself in an artist situation right you have talent right you have talent here it is I got I got everything you want

• 30:04Joe Rogan?

  yeah

• 30:07Speaker 02

  you're gonna have to make some sacrifices

• 30:09Joe Rogan?

  for sure

• 30:09Speaker 02

  because you know that yeah you may you may feel like I got talent but I don't have the resources

• 30:15Joe Rogan?

  right

• 30:16Speaker 02

  so those resources come and tell you yo look

• 30:20Speaker 02

  I'll give you a shot I'm gonna give you a shot but

• 30:25Speaker 02

  either you take this shot or you stay in the hood what are you gonna do

• 30:29Joe Rogan?

  you're gonna take the shot

• 30:30Speaker 02

  I'm gonna take the shot

• 30:30Joe Rogan?

  you're gonna take the shot and I agree with everybody who takes that shot I'm just letting them know

• 30:34Speaker 02

  right

• 30:35Joe Rogan?

  I'm just letting them know you're getting fucked

• 30:36Speaker 02

  you're getting fucked but but see it's the sacrifice that I'm trying to explain to you that every every artist takes they takes that sacrifice because at the end of the day you have to start from somewhere so even when labels are being them

• 30:54Speaker 02

  In my mind, I'm saying, yo, I get a chance to have a job, Joe. Niggas ain't never had no fucking job in they life. And now we get a chance to do something that you could maybe think that you could change the world with and love. It's like you're gonna go for it. So for us back then, being kids, we didn't give a fuck. We didn't care about signing. Yo, I'll sign because what the fuck I gotta lose? I done been through everything. I done, I done been over here. I done been kicked out of everywhere. Fuck it. I just wanna be heard. So a lot of time, that be, the protocol is just to be heard. To be heard, to be able to say, yo, something happened. I don't give a fuck.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  A lot of artists got robbed. A lot. A lot of artists, and especially our, our OGs that did it before us, like, you know what I mean? Sugar Hill Gangs, all these different guys, they all have been manipulated to do what they had to do, but it almost gave them power too, because they became.

• 31:56Joe Rogan?

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• 32:39Joe Rogan?

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• 33:03Joe Rogan?

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• 33:45Joe Rogan?

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• 33:51Speaker 02

  Famous, they became big, they became legendary.

• 33:53Joe Rogan?

  There's an argument for that, but I think it should be more fair.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Oh, listen, I'm with you.

• 33:57Joe Rogan?

  Of course you are.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  I'm with you on that. But we just talking about the sacrifice.

• 34:01Joe Rogan?

  You have to do it.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Sacrifices is everything.

• 34:03Joe Rogan?

  If you're a young kid and that's step one, and now you're on the runway, okay, you gotta take it.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  You gotta take it.

• 34:09Joe Rogan?

  But it should be more fair.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Oh, I agree, I agree.

• 34:12Joe Rogan?

  It shouldn't lock people in for life.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  And I'm sure later on, things worked out. And you know, now that you proved yourself.

• 34:19Joe Rogan?

  Once they become undeniable.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  It's like I tell a motherfucker this. I'm like, yo, imagine you were a hustler, right? And you run into the connect and the connect say, yo, you talking like you know how to move shit. I'm gonna give you 50 pounds of marijuana back then, you know what I mean? Now, you may feel like at the end of the day, you can handle it. But a motherfucker tell you, Joe, I'm giving you these fucking 50 pounds. But I need my money back today at this time. You could either take the 50 because you so fucking confident, or take one and say, yo, I'd rather take my time. You know what I mean? I don't want to be in debt with you. What are you gonna do?

• 34:56Joe Rogan?

  You gotta take the 50.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  You go, oh you, oh yeah.

• 34:58Joe Rogan?

  You gotta take the fifty.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  He wants to fucking get his head fucking chopped off.

• 35:02Joe Rogan?

  You gotta take the fifty.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  I don't know, yeah, I mean.

• 35:04Joe Rogan?

  You gotta know people.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:06Joe Rogan?

  And you gotta bring everybody in and you gotta share the money.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  See, you gotta know people.

• 35:09Joe Rogan?

  You gotta share the money.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  You gotta know people.

• 35:11Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot more money.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  And knowing what the fuck you need to know, I advise you don't take them.

• 35:16Joe Rogan?

  You shouldn't be having that conversation.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Shouldn't be having that conversation.

• 35:18Joe Rogan?

  If you don't know anybody. But if you know some people and you're generous.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 35:22Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing. You gotta make it worth these people's while. You gotta bring, you gotta say, listen, we're all gonna get something out of this.

• 35:28Speaker 02

  And see, now look, that philosophy that you said.

• 35:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Is what we took on.

• 35:32Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  We took that on. We said, you know what? At the end of the day, we'll take this little bit of money, but we gonna go. We gonna be willing to sell ourselves to get to this level.

• 35:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  Because we know what we believe in. See, it all starts from what you believe.

• 35:48Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  If you don't have the belief in yourself to make it happen, you fucked.

• 35:53Joe Rogan?

  It's a, it's a rising tides lifts all boats thing too.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely.

• 35:57Joe Rogan?

  And with Wu-Tang Clan, that was for sure a big thing. Because anybody that was associated with Wu-Tang Clan was automatically respected. Automatically, people wanted to listen. Automatically.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:07Joe Rogan?

  Automatically. So like, that, that just lifts everybody. That lifts everybody. But it's hard for people to see that. Everybody thinks about themselves, especially when you're struggling. When you're struggling, then you're scared and you, you know, and scared money doesn't make money.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  Don't make money.

• 36:20Joe Rogan?

  That's what it is. Everybody gets paranoid and they think.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:23Joe Rogan?

  No, you got, that's when you gotta bond together. That's when everybody, you have to find real people and stick together.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  You said, you said the key word.

• 36:30Joe Rogan?

  We gotta sell that fifty.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  You gotta know your value.

• 36:32Joe Rogan?

  We gotta sell that fifty.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:33Joe Rogan?

  Talk to Carlos.

• 36:36Joe Rogan?

  Go, go down to Bottega. Let's make a deal, man. We gotta make some deals. We got ten hours.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  I guess that's what RZA did is that he, he danced with the devil for the right reason and, you know. We took, we took some scars. We, we got hit.

• 36:50Joe Rogan?

  It was a different world back then too, in terms of the industry, because today, all you need is a social media account, Spotify, SoundCloud. You can blow up. You can blow up today.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:00Joe Rogan?

  Back then, you needed the radio.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:03Joe Rogan?

  You needed, you know, you could sell mixtapes, but it's hard. You had to be some undeniable talent.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:11Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, I, we always played the video of Biggie when he was seventeen on the street. Remember that video?

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, when he was in his neighborhood, yeah.

• 37:19Joe Rogan?

  That's undeniable talent. Like, that's the kind of talent, like, that dude's gonna, if he stays alive, you can't stop that train.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 37:27Joe Rogan?

  That train's running everything over. You know what I mean? It's like, there was guys like that back then, but, man, to get out there and get your name out there, you had to, you had to dance.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  You had to work, man.

• 37:37Joe Rogan?

  You had to dance with that devil.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, you had to work.

• 37:40Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. And that business was so dirty back then. It still is, but real dirty back then, in the record-selling days.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course, of course, I mean, but that's what made us learn, is that we had to grow through, we had to go through those growing pains. We had to get jerked to, to learn how to say, yo, that was a lesson. So, everything is a lesson at the end of the day. It's like, if you willing to sacrifice yourself and your time to learn something, I was, I would always say, go for it.

• 38:11Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  You know, go for it.

• 38:13Joe Rogan?

  Definitely, go for it. It's so much better than not going for it.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, because then you gonna be, you gonna be sitting in the same situation and you gonna realize at the end of the day, damn, I should've took that opportunity. Some people are scared of opportunities when they come, and it's like, if a person offer you an opportunity, nine times out of 10, it may not work for you the way you want it to work, but it may be an opportunity to help you.

• 38:38Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  You know, it's all about you trying to help yourself and, and get out there. It's like, wa- watching Scarface, and a nigga told him, he said, yo, give you five grand, better, and if you fuck this up, Chico.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  Scarface looked at him and said, man, the fuck is you talking about? We built for this shit, man. You know, when, um, he lost, he lost his man in the mix, but he was able to prove to himself that... I could do it.

• 39:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  That's how I look at rap. It's like, yo, I don't give a fuck. Yeah, we'll take this. We'll take this little bit of money, but we gonna prove to y'all later on that we know what the fuck we doing.

• 39:19Joe Rogan?

  And for young people listening to this, every chance you take where you fail, that's a lesson learned.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  Lesson, baby.

• 39:26Joe Rogan?

  And you just keep taking chances.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 39:28Joe Rogan?

  Keep going. Pick yourself back up, figure out where you fucked up, and learn from that, and now you're better.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 39:34Joe Rogan?

  Now you have more experience coming into this next thing. Just keep going.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Just keep going, man.

• 39:39Joe Rogan?

  Just keep going, especially as artists. It's just like so many artists, they don't hit until they do.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 39:45Joe Rogan?

  And then when they do, it's like, oh, and then people wanna go back on their past stuff. Like, oh, this guy had fucking three albums before this.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Think about it. Think about all our favorite artists out there, you know, Eminem, you know? Eminem been trying to fucking get on, you know?

• 39:59Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  Um, you know, um, Rakim, Slick Rick, all these guys, they they went through, they went through a lot to get on, you know what I mean? Biz Markie, you know? Nobody wanted to fuck with Biz at first, but, you know, he finally figured the code out and was like, yo, this is what I'm gonna do. You know, he start rocking shows in different communities, and next thing you know, people start hearing about him and you're like, oh shit, yo, this guy is dope. But it's that sacrifice, man. I tell people all the time, gotta sacrifice.

• 40:33Joe Rogan?

  It's time put in. Time put in, energy, effort, determination, and you gotta have some talent.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, you gotta have some talent, man.

• 40:40Joe Rogan?

  Talent is just, God just gives you something, or doesn't, you know? Some people just got it, you know? And some people, it's also like artistic families, like Nas.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:51Joe Rogan?

  You know, he grew up in this like intellectual artistic family, and that's why his rhymes are so good.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, his pops, man. His pops is a musician, man.

• 40:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Good friend of mine right there. Like Rewind?

• 41:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:02Joe Rogan?

  That's like one of the greatest songs of any genre anybody's ever written. It's a genius song.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  So crazy. I was listening to that shit yesterday.

• 41:09Joe Rogan?

  Genius song.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  Bullet goes back in the gun.

• 41:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Genius song. The whole song backwards.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  You fuck with lyrics, huh?

• 41:16Joe Rogan?

  And it's ama- oh, I love Nas, especially for lyrics. His lyrics are incredible. They were so good. They were so good.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Dope.

• 41:24Joe Rogan?

  And unusual, like that, like deciding, I'm only the first guy to make a rap backwards, and make it work perfectly.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:33Joe Rogan?

  You know? I mean, it's just- Hey, did you ever listen to, uh, any of the shit where, um, the Brand New Heavies got together with a bunch of rappers?

• 41:42Speaker 02

  The Brand New Heavies, I know the name, but I'm trying to think of the music.

• 41:45Joe Rogan?

  The Brand New Heavies is like a jazz band. They did a collaboration with Gang Star, Cool G Rap.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah.

• 41:52Joe Rogan?

  Some of my favorite shit of all time.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, they was more musical though, like you said, they was more musical, yeah.

• 41:57Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever heard of Cool G Rap's Death Threat?

• 42:00Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 42:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god!

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Nah, see, you know, this school of need this shit, yeah, play that.

• 42:04Joe Rogan?

  Play that, find that, we gotta put on the headphones for this. This is in my, uh, along with a bunch of Wu-Tang, this is in my, um...

• 42:10Speaker 02

  Right, let me hear this shit, yeah.

• 42:11Joe Rogan?

  This is in my, uh, Spotify playlist. This is Cool G Rap in like, I wanna say 92? Yeah, 92. Listen to this.

• 42:20Speaker 04

  Something that I'm a flake, but I'm no fake nigga, 'cause I take a bitch, big 'em and wish to burn his ass at the stake. With the 44 Mac, it's so simple, put it to his temple, fuck outta give a nigga permanent dimples. Ease it up on a fast flow, but I'll let your ass go.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  I never heard this shit before.

• 42:34Joe Rogan?

  How good is this?

• 42:35Speaker 04

  Where no hesitance on the tracks, you rap on a rap scope, motherfucker's doing jumping jacks. You motherfuckers lost it, I make your ass like a cake, I know your flakes can't force it. 'Cause when you rappers on the mix, niggas start shit.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  One of my favorites right there.

• 42:49Joe Rogan?

  Turning to chicks with small dicks.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  Woo!

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 43:00Joe Rogan?

  So good.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 43:02Joe Rogan?

  So good.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  So this was on the Brand New Heavies album?

• 43:03Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Never heard it.

• 43:05Joe Rogan?

  The Brand New Heavies did one with Gang Star, they, they did a bunch of different artists.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  Nice. What year was this?

• 43:10Joe Rogan?

  92.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is the beginning, yeah.

• 43:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I was on a road trip, I was doing a gig in Connecticut with a buddy of mine who's a comedian.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:18Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, he turned me on to this, like, you gotta listen to this shit. And I was like, oh my god, and then I, I had a CD and I lost it. And I couldn't find it forever, and then someone brought it up, like, a few years back, like, six or seven years back. And I was like, it's gotta, you gotta be able to find it, and that's the beautiful thing about today with like YouTube and, you know, so many of these platforms, people upload shit that you totally forgot about, like, Tim Dog. You know, people forgot about, like, Fuck Compton, remember that?

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, he was a wild cap, but he was real, yo.

• 43:49Joe Rogan?

  It was good though, he was good!

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was wildin' back then, yeah.

• 43:54Joe Rogan?

  Great shit, man.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was wildin' back then, though.

• 43:56Joe Rogan?

  But Cool G Rap, that, that to me was like, that defined like road gigs for me in the 1990s, when we would drive. That was when Cock Blockin' came out? Remember that?

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Yo, that wall is shit, man.

• 44:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, that song is amazing.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, damn, so you, you really, you really pay attention to this fucking hip-hop shit like that, man?

• 44:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, hip-hop was a big part of my, my childhood, or my, my young adulthood. You know, when I was driving around a lot, doing comedy gigs, like, a lot of Ghetto Boys. I was a huge Ghetto Boys fan.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, me too.

• 44:27Joe Rogan?

  You know, and I was playing, the other day in the green room, I was playing Fuck a War for these young kids. I was like, listen, this is a song from the nineteen eighties about the Iraq war. This is about George Bush, in, in like the nineteen, late nineteen eighties. And it applies today. You remember Fuck a War?

• 44:46Speaker 02

  Fuck a War, nah, you, you fucking-

• 44:48Joe Rogan?

  Come on, headphones are coming back on, let's go.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  You fucking schooling me on shit, like, what the fuck?

• 44:52Joe Rogan?

  I talked to Willie D, Willie D told me he wrote this song in forty minutes.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 44:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just angry, wrote this song in forty minutes. And this is Ghetto Boys in their prime.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 45:01Joe Rogan?

  Hello, can I speak with Bushwick Bill?

• 45:05Speaker 02

  That was my guy right there, man.

• 45:08Joe Rogan?

  This is Bushwick, motherfucking Bill.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Ninety-one.

• 45:16Joe Rogan?

  Ninety-one.

• 45:25Joe Rogan?

  Look at that big phone he's got.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I had one of those before, too. Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 04

  America.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:11Joe Rogan?

  So get crazy.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  Oh shit.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  Oh shit, yeah.

• 46:42Speaker 02

  Oh god.

• 46:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  He was in the NWA chamber.

• 46:55Joe Rogan?

  Dude.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  He was in the NWA chamber right there.

• 46:57Joe Rogan?

  Dude, that shit was good.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  They was public enemy thinking, yeah.

• 47:00Joe Rogan?

  That applies today. We were all talking about what's going on right now with Gaza and Palestine.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  I know, yeah.

• 47:07Joe Rogan?

  Iran. I was like, listen to this.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  And see, this is why we love hip-hop so much is because it was educational too.

• 47:16Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  It was giving us jewels. It was talking about things that were going on in the world and that became the television for us. The music, the music.

• 47:26Joe Rogan?

  Became the news too. Like you needed to know what was actually going on. Like fuck a war tells you what's really going on.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  What's going on, yeah. So when I think about those Compton boys, those NWA cats and all of that, that was expressing themselves, it was like that's what we all were facing and living amongst. And, you know, like I said, I never heard that song before. So I could tell that was made around the time when NWA was doing they thing. And, you know, you hearing about all these riots and shit going on and things happening. You know, us living all the way on the other side of the world is like, yo, we not, yo, what the fuck was that?

• 48:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  You know, but you heard it in the song and you knew it was real.

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  You respected it.

• 48:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  And to me, those perspectives and music were important for us because we were learning as we were getting older about society.

• 48:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  You don't think about society when you poor and and living in in in fucked up positions. You just think about survival.

• 48:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  You see what I'm saying? Survival is the only thing on your mind. And you you you you're dealing with things that's in front of you that at the end of the day, you like, damn. The fuck was that that just happened? Or what was this shit? But then when you heard it in rap and and motherfuckers like these was talking about it and all that.

• 48:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  It's like now you was like, oh, okay, I see what the fuck is going on.

• 48:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  It's not just here, it's it's all over. It's in every everywhere, every ghetto or whatever the case may be.

• 48:56Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  That's what was happening.

• 48:57Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  So I never heard that before, though. You just you just put me on some ill shit.

• 49:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  And that's one of my favorite groups right there.

• 49:03Joe Rogan?

  I love the ghetto boys.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Ghetto Boys is real shit right there.

• 49:06Joe Rogan?

  The the nineteen nineties ghetto boy era, oof, oof.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 49:10Joe Rogan?

  That and that like, I remember the day I found out about N W A. I was uh teaching Taekwondo in Revere, Massachusetts, and I was at the gym riding on the stair climber. And I had just picked up this cassette and I was like, N W A, I keep hearing about this. And Fuck the Police was the first song I listened to. And I remember I was on the stair climber going, this is wild.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  You see what I'm saying? You see what I'm saying?

• 49:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. You're you're hearing people talk about the police, like they're getting harassed by the police in a way you never heard before.

• 49:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 49:42Joe Rogan?

  Fuck the police coming straight from the underground. It was like, I was like, wow. It was a totally different kind of music. It was. It was like they were rapping and no one was listening. It was like they were rapping for themselves, right?

• 49:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:57Joe Rogan?

  Like they didn't give a fuck who was listening. They were rapping like they were doing it for their friends, but they were doing it to the whole world and the whole world was like, whoa. Hundred miles and running. The whole world was like, whoa, this is crazy.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  So look, you had them, you had Public Enemy.

• 50:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  All of them type of guys were giving us information that. Was relatable in our community that they became a voice.

• 50:22Joe Rogan?

  KRS-One.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  KRS-One, the teacher, you know.

• 50:25Joe Rogan?

  Whoop, whoop, that's the sound of the police.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  All that shit right there to me was, was knowledgeable, knowledgeable rap, hip-hop. I ain't gonna call it fucking rap, hip-hop.

• 50:38Joe Rogan?

  Informational, right, they like, especially KRS-One and Public Enemy.

• 50:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:44Joe Rogan?

  They were, they were saying something, it was like very, but it wasn't contrived, you know?

• 50:49Speaker 02

  Right, right, exactly.

• 50:50Joe Rogan?

  Wasn't like, you know, you see people say shit today, like, ah, you're just doing that for claps. Like, they were saying shit to let people know about some information that you're not aware of, and this is why you're getting fucked. This is why we're all getting fucked.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Absolutely, come on, come on, even when fucking, um, Spike Lee made Do Do the Right Thing.

• 51:09Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 51:10Speaker 02

  One of my favorite movies right there, that's a classic right there.

• 51:13Joe Rogan?

  Classic, classic.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Classic, classic shit, wow.

• 51:16Joe Rogan?

  Classic.

• 51:16Speaker 02

  But like you said, we was getting information and, you know, you gotta remember, you know, at the end of the day, you know, a lot of people that coming out of, you know, the hood and just being like, I know you, you come from the hood, you, you know.

• 51:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, I was born in Newark.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's born in Newark, shout out to Newark, so you, you seen it firsthand.

• 51:34Joe Rogan?

  I wouldn't exactly say I come from the hood, cuz I went to high school in the suburbs.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you, yeah, yeah, that's true, but.

• 51:39Joe Rogan?

  I lived in Newark, I was telling you, I lived in Newark when I was twenty-three for about se- six or seven months, and I told you my next-door neighbor, he was selling dope and the, the police raided his house while I was there, they battering rammed his door and everything, he had a nice Audi.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 51:54Joe Rogan?

  I looked at him like, wow, this dude has a nice car.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 51:57Joe Rogan?

  Selling dope, he was selling dope, and they got him.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  But he was around it though, so he was able to, you know.

• 52:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, that was also the time when I was the most into hip-hop too. I mean, that was nineteen ninety-one, I guess, ninety, ninety-one, that was a wild era, cuz that's when hip-hop was just exploding.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, you're right.

• 52:15Joe Rogan?

  Exploding.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say definitely ninety-one, yeah, Naughty by Nature, you know, they, they had emerged on the scene, like you said, um, Rakim and, and Big Daddy Kane.

• 52:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Eazy-E's and Ice Cube.

• 52:28Joe Rogan?

  To this day, I Go to Work is one of my favorite workout songs. Big Daddy Kane, I go to work.

• 52:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, I go to work. Oh, he was so smooth and so fast, too. You know, Big Daddy Kane had like a very particular style. It was energetic, you know, you heard his style, like, god, you, like, your blood started pumping, you know? You started getting moving.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  And see, those are the type of guys that paved the way for us to be so, you know, outspoken on the mic, you know? When I, when I sit here, when I think about the Klan, you know, the woo on how we, you know, formed, we formed Voltron. Each one of us had a superpower that related back to those guys. You know, all these guys that we talking about today, um, they was the, they was the light bulb.

• 53:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  In the, in the, in the, in the house. You screw that shit on, you, this is what I see right now, I see Slick Rick, I see Rock Cam, I see Cube, I see fucking, you know, um, all these guys that paved the way for us, so the Klan at that time, we were so, you know, inclined on knowing about all these guys, knowing majority of them, we kept a piece of them in us. That helped us become who we are. Like, I tell motherfuckers all the time, I say, yo, let me tell you something, when we came out, Naughty by Nature was the shit. They was, they was fucking shit up on the east coast side of things, you know?

• 54:05Speaker 02

  And at that time, you had them, you had EPMD, you had Queen Latifah, Roxanne Chanté, all of these, you know, artists back then were blowing up. LL, can't front on LL, LL.

• 54:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:20Joe Rogan?

  LL was huge.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  Coogee Rap, one of my favorites, I know that's one of your favorites. Um, you know, the fat boys, all these guys were just-

• 54:28Joe Rogan?

  That's right, fat boys.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  You know, these guys was giving us so much food for thought that we knew that if we didn't come on that level-

• 54:37Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  We wasn't built to be in the game at that time.

• 54:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, there was so much high quality.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:42Joe Rogan?

  The, the, the-

• 54:43Speaker 02

  High quality, that's the word.

• 54:44Joe Rogan?

  The level was very high.

• 54:46Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 54:47Joe Rogan?

  The lyrics were so good, like you would hear lyrics and just go, "Ooh."

• 54:51Speaker 02

  Oh, shit, yeah.

• 54:52Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, that was the thing, that was the thing about hip-hop.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  Listening to the lyrics, I love that.

• 54:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, oh, I'm, I'm, I love lyrics.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  You lyric guy.

• 54:59Joe Rogan?

  Lyrics is everything.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 55:01Joe Rogan?

  For, be, you know, it's like, that was the style back then, it was like, the most clever guy-

• 55:06Speaker 02

  Mm.

• 55:06Joe Rogan?

  The most clever lyrics.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  Mm.

• 55:08Joe Rogan?

  It was, it was so important, you know? So many guys that just had, everybody was battling for, so it was like, more and more cleverness and more and more intricacies and more and more twists of what they were saying.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:22Joe Rogan?

  And it was just a vibrant art form, man. Like, how many people cheated on their significant other because of OPP?

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:30Joe Rogan?

  How many?

• 55:30Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly.

• 55:31Joe Rogan?

  How many relationships-

• 55:32Speaker 02

  You down with OPP, yeah, you know me.

• 55:35Joe Rogan?

  People were cheering, it was like a license to fuck.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:38Joe Rogan?

  People were cheering.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 55:40Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it had so, the hip-hop had so much influence on the culture and it emerged out of nowhere.

• 55:45Speaker 02

  Out of nowhere, right.

• 55:45Joe Rogan?

  That's what's so crazy, like, ten years ago doesn't exist, boom. I mean, even rock and roll, I mean, rock and roll, you had the fifties, it starts to emerge, then the sixties really takes off and, you know, it'd been around for a while.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  Right, absolutely.

• 55:57Joe Rogan?

  To have something like hip-hop just explode and make a lot of other things look lame.

• 56:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:02Joe Rogan?

  You know, especially for young kids, because when you hear guys like you and, you know, Ghostface and, you know, Method Man and like, you're dealing with real dudes who are talking about real shit and everybody else just looked kinda lame.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  (laughing)

• 56:19Joe Rogan?

  You know, it was like.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  Yo, it's stupid, man, yo.

• 56:21Joe Rogan?

  You know, it was like, they didn't even swear, you know? It was like, you, you guys were wild. It was fun and it was clever. And I think RZA did a genius thing by naming it Wu-Tang Clan. Cause it connected it to like this Kung Fu mindset.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  And I know that you big on. I know you big on Kung Fu shit, cause I'm.

• 56:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  I come into your shrine and shit, he got all kind of fucking Shogun warriors assassins.

• 56:45Joe Rogan?

  Samurai outfit out there, yeah.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  But nah, but you know what's so crazy? I tell people is like, when RZA, when they was on they Wu-Tang shit, we wasn't on that. I grew up watching more like Scarface and mafia movies. Once Upon a Time in America.

• 57:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:04Speaker 02

  One of my favorite movies.

• 57:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's a great one. People forget about Once Upon a Time in America.

• 57:08Speaker 02

  It's my fucking movie right there. That's my, that's my movie. So, we were like, we were living in this, we were living around a lot of hustlers. A lot of, a lot of drugs was being sold in my community at that time, right? So, when RZA came with the whole Wu-Tang philosophy, it was almost like, yeah, we love karate flicks. We were watching, you know about the karate flicks? Three o'clock, three o'clock.

• 57:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:34Speaker 02

  We come over and school them shits is on, Channel 5, all of that shit. But if you notice and you look at those karate movies, it was about a place that, you know, was filled with a lot of crime and aggressive people that were doing things that bothered other people. And you either had to protect your people, or you had to make a name for yourself. Now, when you think about Wu-Tang, I'mma just give you a quick lesson on what Wu-Tang was. Wu-Tang was a school that was in Shaolin.

• 58:09Speaker 02

  This particular school, these niggas was crazy. They was fucked up. They got kicked the fuck out of Shaolin.

• 58:16Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 58:17Speaker 02

  They got kicked out. Yo, y'all bugged out, y'all wildin', y'all. But these guys were very good, but they just couldn't sit in Shaolin because they had a different way of looking at shit and doing shit. So, when RZA came with the whole philosophy of it, it's this movie that's called Shaolin vs. Wu-Tang, right?

• 58:37Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 58:37Speaker 02

  Check it out, whenever you get a chance. So, whatever was going on in that movie, he made a reality of it cuz really, at the end of the day, that's how we were living back in Staten Island. You know, so, we wound up changing the name and calling it Shaolin because we were the forgotten barrow. You know, when you think about Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, Manhattan, we ain't don't really talk too much about fucking Staten Island. That bothered us. So, we didn't, we felt rebellious, like, yo, you come out here, you ain't from here? You better know somebody. You're not fucking coming in the projects thinking you gonna fucking act like you going over to your friends. I remember we used to see UFOs come through, we call them UFOs, unidentified flying objects.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  The fuck he doing there? Yo, follow him. Yo, who you came to see? You know what I mean? Because we had so much to prove, but it was the same thing that was going on in the karate flicks, like, yo, you go to a new name, who is this guy? Either he's coming to play you, he's coming to play you, or or you gonna play him. This is all the shit that's going on in the karate movies. You know, the brotherhood. Yo, oh shit, my brother got hurt. What happened? Oh, hold up, let's go.

• 59:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  We gotta go get back to that.

• 59:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:48Speaker 02

  We gotta go figure that out. All this shit that RZA was thinking about at that time was a reality check for us in Staten Island. So, even when he came with the name, it was almost like, yo, wow, that shit is interesting, you know, Wu-Tang Clan, yo. You know, and back then, he was hanging in Ghost's community, which was Stapleton. So, Stapleton was a place that was Maybe like ten fifteen miles away from Park Hill where I'm from, I'm from the hill. I'm from, up there they was selling drugs and getting crazy with it and Jamaicans and Westerners and Guyanese and, you know, it was a melting pot, you know, it was a melting pot of different nationalities of motherfuckers. You had the Spanish motherfuckers over here selling dope, you know what I mean?

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  You had the white boys over here fucking doing what they doing, you know, um. All these things was going on, but in Stapleton, it was nothing but criminals and motherfuckers that wanna fight and, and, and rob and steal and, you know, and, um, RZA was hanging out there a lot. You know, so they came up with this whole, you know, Wu-Tang mentality thing that they brought up the block to us. So when RZA came with it, it was like, oh shit, we like that, that's kinda dope, you know, we see the vision of that, you know? But, um, it was, it was never for us to look at it at any given time like, yo, you trying to portray us as some fucking ninjas or some shit.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  You know, a lot of times people thought, yo, your niggas know karate and all this shit. You know no fucking karate, motherfucker, we don't do that. But we grew up, our older cat, our older brothers and sisters, they grew up on it, that was some early seventies shit right there. Yeah. So you know, back then, you might have had a cousin that was a martial art, he knew the arts and shit. You know, you looked up to him like, yo, this motherfucker's ill right here, he know, he know the arts and shit, he know how to fight. You know, your motherfucker would be in back of the building with two Doberman Pinschers and shit. You know what I mean, beating them with fucking laundromat hoses and shit and, you know, grabbing them and hanging them on shit and, you know, back then, that was, you know, that was dope to see your cousins and all of them do it, but,

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  RZA when he came with this philosophy, it kinda like fucked us all up and it, but we agreed with it right away. Cause Wu-Tang was to them was always something like a, a, um.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  An expression. So if you drinking, this is Wu Tang. Drinking, you over here, yo, this is some Wu Tang shit or whatever because he was trying to say that we were just like them in the flicks. It's crazy.

• 1:02:23Joe Rogan?

  Wanna hear something crazy? Whenever I kill an elk, you know, I go bow hunting every year. Whenever I kill elk, when I text my friend Cam, I text Wu Tang. Like whenever I kill something, I'll show you.

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  Oh my god. I seen some of the pictures today.

• 1:02:37Joe Rogan?

  I know, but I wanna show you that that's true. I'm not making this up. It goes back years. It goes back years. This is like our tradition. Whenever I kill elk, well, I'm gonna find this. I'm gonna find the last time I said Wu Tang. I text him every day, so it's gonna take a second to get back into some pictures. But whenever I get one, I say Wu Tang and then I send him a picture.

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  Oh shit. Crazy.

• 1:03:00Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna take a while because I do scroll, but this is important to show you. This is real. Come on, motherfucker.

• 1:03:06Speaker 05

  Go back and search Wu Tang and it'll show you.

• 1:03:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it'll show you?

• 1:03:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay. Oh, oh, look at Jamie. Under Cam Haynes or just Wu Tang?

• 1:03:12Speaker 05

  Then when you find Cam Haynes, it'll show you.

• 1:03:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, look at Jamie telling me how to do it.

• 1:03:17Speaker 05

  Sorry.

• 1:03:18Joe Rogan?

  Here we go. See, oh, here it is.

• 1:03:23Joe Rogan?

  Right there. Wu Tang.

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 1:03:27Joe Rogan?

  And then the elk is down.

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:03:30Joe Rogan?

  That was from October. But I got, I go back like five years of doing that. Like every time I shoot an elk, I text Wu Tang.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  Wow, crazy. When you started hunting, since you came out here?

• 1:03:41Joe Rogan?

  No, I started hunting in 2012. I shot that deer, that deer, that head that's right there. That was the first

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:03:48Joe Rogan?

  Animal I hunted. And then I was like, okay, that's what I'm doing.

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:03:51Joe Rogan?

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• 1:04:35Joe Rogan?

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• 1:05:17Joe Rogan?

  Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles. Seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. I was, it was either for me, it was that or become a vegetarian. I watched too many of those PETA films. You know, those animal factory farming films and torture films. I was like, fuck this. Like either I'm gonna be a vegan or I'm gonna learn how to hunt. And my friend Steve Rinella took me hunting. I shot that deer. I'm like, alright, that's what I do now. And I've been doing it ever since. So I've been hunting for 12 years.

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  12 years?

• 1:05:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Speaker 02

  So you consider yourself a marksman then?

• 1:06:02Joe Rogan?

  Uh, well, it's like, I'm not really good. Like compared to real marksman. You know, that's like saying you're a black belt when you're not really a black belt. You know, like, like-

• 1:06:12Speaker 02

  You gotta go through the courses.

• 1:06:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, how good are you? I mean, I'm good for regular people. Yeah, if you didn't know, you'd think I'm really good. Yeah, but like for people that are really good, no, I'm not, not nearly at their level. But you know, there's like professional archers that are like super accurate out to 100 yards. They can shoot like a softball- All sized group at a hundred yards consistently.

• 1:06:33Speaker 02

  I got a couple of homeboys who can shoot like that though.

• 1:06:36Joe Rogan?

  It's a lot of discipline.

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:38Joe Rogan?

  Lot of discipline.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, but they they come from, they live on this side of town too though.

• 1:06:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, there's a lot of bow hunting in Texas.

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

• 1:06:45Joe Rogan?

  Lot of bow hunting in Texas, yeah. It's fun.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:48Joe Rogan?

  I like it.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  I gotta get out there one day, man. I gotta, you know.

• 1:06:52Joe Rogan?

  I told you, like, we were talking before the show, like, if you want to learn, I could put you on some people that'll one hundred percent teach you how to do it.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  Fuck that, I'm down.

• 1:06:58Joe Rogan?

  And, cause you're you're fairly close, like, that's a easy thing to do. Look it up.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 1:07:04Joe Rogan?

  You would enjoy it. It's a, it's also, it's a nice discipline to clear your mind.

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:08Joe Rogan?

  You just set a target up in the backyard and just shoot the target, it just clears your mind. Cause you have to really concentrate on it and while you're doing it, you don't think about nothing else.

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:17Joe Rogan?

  For a guy like you, busy, so much shit going on, like, it's good to have a thing like that to just.

• 1:07:22Speaker 02

  It's like a sport to me. It's like something to learn and and and kind of master.

• 1:07:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  That's important.

• 1:07:26Joe Rogan?

  But it's one of those things like, like shooting a free throw, like, at that moment, you can't think of anything else other than what you're doing.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:07:34Joe Rogan?

  If other shit gets in your head, it's like, you don't have any room for it.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  You're not gonna be focused, right.

• 1:07:38Joe Rogan?

  You gotta push it all out.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:07:39Joe Rogan?

  And just think, oh, and that kind of stuff, like, cleans your mind.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:07:43Joe Rogan?

  It's like, it flushes your mind out.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  That's what it all, that's what it's all about at the end of the day, man. Just kind of like, get a peace of mind and vibe vibe to something different though, you know?

• 1:07:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I always say that for artists too, you should find some other thing you like to do.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:57Joe Rogan?

  Just to give you a little break mentally from whatever you're trying to do.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:08:01Joe Rogan?

  You could, you could get too close to something and lose sight of the big picture if you're all wrapped up in it, too tight.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  Into one, yeah.

• 1:08:09Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes you need something else that you also enjoy outside of it, and then you can look at what you're doing, oh, okay, what am I doing different?

• 1:08:15Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:08:16Joe Rogan?

  Maybe I should put a new wrinkle in this. Maybe I should take a new turn, you know? Mix it up.

• 1:08:21Speaker 02

  That's important, man. That's important, man. It's important.

• 1:08:23Joe Rogan?

  You know what, what's another cool thing about today is that, um, it used to be thought at one point in time, I think it was like the early two thousands, that rap had.

• 1:08:35Joe Rogan?

  That hip hop had a shelf life. And that there wouldn't be classics. You know what I mean, like the Rolling Stones were still touring. You know, they were fifty eight years old back then, like this is crazy, the Rolling Stones are back on the road, but. That was like a new thing, was like old rock and roll guys out touring was a new thing, but with hip hop artists. Like if you weren't in now, if you weren't new now, it kind of, people weren't in to go and to see you.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  Right, yeah, well, when I see guys like LL and Kane and them perform and Slick Rick and Ice Cube. It it kind of, it it gives me more leverage and more strength to want to do it. Because I see some of my legends still doing it today. But um, yeah, man, like you said, just to um, see a lot of guys like the Rolling Stones and. Mick Jagger and them still performing, it's like, why not?

• 1:09:29Joe Rogan?

  Why not, yeah.

• 1:09:30Speaker 02

  Why give up on it, you know?

• 1:09:32Joe Rogan?

  But with hip hop, it wasn't really a thing for a long time, like older hip hop.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  You didn't think that it would last. You know what I mean, so you felt like you would get a five year run. They say any artist that was coming out back in the nineties, they was already putting a cap on. How long or how far they felt you was gonna go, so even for us. We's like, yo, hey, we do this shit for like three or four years, we good, yo, we'll be cool with that. So they always put us in a, what's the word I want to say? What's that, what's?

• 1:10:07Joe Rogan?

  A box?

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  Put us in a box. To make us feel like at the end of the day, yo, this shit is gonna be here for a minute, then it's over. You know, but seeing guys still doing it, you know, I don't give a fuck, like, I listen to Billy Joel, I'm a Billy Joel fan. That's my fucking guy right there.

• 1:10:23Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  People I know, people would be like, get the fuck out of here.

• 1:10:27Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious, I love his old shit, until he, until he had that supermodel wife, then everything got real soft.

• 1:10:38Joe Rogan?

  Too much good pussy. He got supermodel pussy and it's like uptown girl. She's been living in her uptown world. Before that, you go back to his other shit, you know? Oh, when the good die young? Oh, that's a great jam. He's got some great stuff, man. Scenes from an Italian restaurant? That's a great song, man. Captain Jack? Ooh, Captain Jack's a great song.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Billy Joel, man.

• 1:11:01Joe Rogan?

  But when he got older, it just became, you know? Hey, he was changing as a human.

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  He in New York too, right?

• 1:11:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  New York to the heart, right there, right?

• 1:11:08Joe Rogan?

  That guy sold out Madison Square Garden like 300 times.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  See what I'm saying?

• 1:11:12Joe Rogan?

  Kind of crazy.

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  Still going.

• 1:11:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, still going.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  So those are heroes. Those are guys that we, we look up to that, you know? They still doing anything, man.

• 1:11:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's just beautiful that hip hop is like that now. Because I feel like in the 2000s, only, it was more overseas was showing you guys love.

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:33Joe Rogan?

  Like a lot of Europe. Like a lot of my friends that were like maybe bigger in the 90s, they had to go over to Europe.

• 1:11:40Speaker 02

  To come check us.

• 1:11:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  Come check out hip hop.

• 1:11:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  And I tell people all the time, like being, being from the States, being where we from? I think they appreciate it more because they, they never really got a chance to grasp it as much as we did.

• 1:11:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:11:55Speaker 02

  So they come out more.

• 1:11:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  Like right now, today.

• 1:11:58Joe Rogan?

  They're more enthusiastic.

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  They more, they love it more, you know?

• 1:12:00Joe Rogan?

  Right. They can't believe you're there.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, they can't believe it.

• 1:12:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  But for me, I think I love performing a lot more when I go, when I go out there. Because they come out and they never, ever make you feel like they don't appreciate you.

• 1:12:17Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? And even to this day, it's like the Klan still goes out there and makes a ton of cash. You see a lot of people. And we see young generations of kids now too, it's like yo, you look in the crowd, you're like, fuck, how old is that fucking kid that we just, we just put him on stage and he knew the, he knew the fucking words. Like yo, he's like, he might have been like seventeen, sixteen years old. Like, yo, he wasn't even fucking born.

• 1:12:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's classic hip hop now. You know what I'm saying? Like, when I was a kid, there was classic rock. You like, you listen to Led Zeppelin, it was classic rock. Now there's classic hip hop.

• 1:12:52Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:12:53Joe Rogan?

  Which is amazing.

• 1:12:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:54Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 1:12:55Speaker 02

  You're right.

• 1:12:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, it just shows that the culture's like completely accepted it as an art form. And so now, young kids that get into hip hop, maybe one of their friends will be like, hey, you ever heard of this? And then they turn them on to new stuff.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:13:09Joe Rogan?

  And they're like, wow, yeah, yeah, this is nineteen ninety-two, you know?

• 1:13:12Speaker 02

  That shit, you know, and I think that that's how we were. We always were infatuated with the music before our time, you know? I'm like how you just said, like yo, you know, listening to Sugar Hill Gang, you know? I actually had them in one of my videos before.

• 1:13:27Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:13:28Speaker 02

  Wow, you know how that, and I brought them to my hood too, so you know how that felt for me?

• 1:13:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:13:33Speaker 02

  Sugar, Sugar Hill Gang?

• 1:13:34Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing.

• 1:13:35Speaker 02

  Come out to my community?

• 1:13:36Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing.

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  That was dope though, right there, man. But yeah, man, it, you know, that's why I always feel like, yo, I, I, I tell people all the time, you have to respect the people that did it before you, man, because they gave you something to, to dream about.

• 1:13:51Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  Be able to instill in yourself, like, if you don't have that, then you're not, you're not moving the way you're supposed to be moving. You know, I remember old man would tell us, if you don't know where you came from, you'll never know where you're going. So having that history, that history is, is an experience that sticks with you forever. You have to have that.

• 1:14:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  Don't try to front on that, you know, and I think a lot of times, people, you know, they look at hip hop and they think certain things is hip hop. It's like, history. Of hip-hop is something that you gotta know, man. You gotta know it.

• 1:14:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:30Speaker 02

  You gotta know it.

• 1:14:31Joe Rogan?

  You should know it like the history of the United States.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:14:33Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's something, if you're an artist, like, that's what, that's what lit the fire. Somebody had to light the fire.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:40Joe Rogan?

  And if these young guys don't know, like, hey, this shit didn't even exist in nineteen seventy-nine.

• 1:14:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:44Joe Rogan?

  Didn't even exist. That's not that long ago. And then all of a sudden, now it's everywhere? Like, what happened? Somebody lit the fire, and if they didn't light that fire, you wouldn't, you wouldn't have it.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:14:53Joe Rogan?

  You wouldn't have the embers. You wouldn't, you wouldn't have this desire to try this thing.

• 1:14:57Speaker 02

  Exactly. Now, look what it's doing. Look what it did.

• 1:15:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:00Speaker 02

  It's like, yo, one of the biggest genres of music is like, you know, and there's a lot of times, people take shots at it, like, you know, y'all ain't talking negative, y'all ain't talking this, they talking that. It's like, my thing to that is always like, yo, it's no different from going to see a scary movie.

• 1:15:19Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:15:20Speaker 02

  Jason. This motherfucker's killing motherfuckers in the woods. I hate it camp. You know what I mean? Based on that, Heat is one of my favorite movies.

• 1:15:27Joe Rogan?

  Great fucking movie.

• 1:15:28Speaker 02

  I love Heat, you know, De Niro, De Niro and Al.

• 1:15:31Joe Rogan?

  But why is it okay to do that in a movie, but it's not okay to do that in a song?

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  Right. I don't understand it. I don't, you know, but...

• 1:15:36Joe Rogan?

  It's hypocritical.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  You know, it's hypocritical, you said.

• 1:15:39Joe Rogan?

  It is. It's hypocritical, because they say it encourages violence. And that's the same thing they'll say about video games, like, you know? Doesn't it everybody?

• 1:15:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:48Joe Rogan?

  So, what, what's going on really? What's going on really is you have a bunch of disenfranchised people that don't have any hope, and if they are around a lot of violence, maybe something will get them excited about violence. If they're not disenfranchised and they have hope, they're not inclined towards violence.

• 1:16:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:16:02Joe Rogan?

  It's a societal problem. It has nothing to do with the art itself. The art itself is representative of real experiences.

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:16:08Joe Rogan?

  So, if you're telling people that they can't express themselves about real experiences, you're just going like this. La, la, la, la, la, I'm not listening. That's all you're doing.

• 1:16:16Speaker 02

  That's how you feel at the end of the day.

• 1:16:18Joe Rogan?

  This is these people's lived expression. This is, that, which is why Wu-Tang was so good. The reason why it was so good is because it was real. Like, no one's questioning the authenticity of anybody that was in the Wu-Tang Clan. So, it's like, that, the message that you guys were putting out, the way you were putting things out, like Wu-Tang Clan ain't... Ain't nothing to fuck with, like that is, that it was like from you to the world. You know, and if someone doesn't like that, you don't have to listen. You don't have to listen. But if you slap a warning sticker on it, you're just gonna sell more albums.

• 1:16:50Speaker 02

  To it anyway, right, you gonna, you gonna, you gonna get caught up in it anyway. Yeah, it's like, look, prime example, when we made, when we made the record Cream, right?

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  Cream was a record that didn't have nothing to do with anything but the real, the realness of what we were looking at. It wasn't really a, a, a song to rap to or have fun with, it was a reality, it was a picture we was trying to paint.

• 1:17:17Joe Rogan?

  Cash rules everything around me.

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  Cash rules, like, around me, not me, should never fucking rule you, but around me. You know, and a friend from the neighborhood, he actually came up with that acronym. But I tell people all the time, my cousin, I had a cousin from Brooklyn that he used to come to Staten Island and he used to sell drugs for us and he came up with that word, cream, cause he was like, yo, yo, as long as I can make my cream, I'm good, I'm okay, what the fuck is cream, like? You know what I mean, he's like, yo, cream, yo, you ever see Tom and Jerry the movie and you know, he make those big fucking sandwiches and all of that and he splash all that cream on it and you know, I'm like, oh, the Tom and Jerry, the sandwiches, right, yeah, when he made the big sandwiches and stuff them in your mouth and all.

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  Nah, real shit, real shit. So the cream, that the cream that was splashing all over the place, he was looking at that as that's his money, like, I just want my cream, I just want my cream. You know what I mean, so we like, yeah, you wanna get your cream, you, you sit up in the fucking spot all day, you wanna make your cream, you wanna get it.

• 1:18:20Joe Rogan?

  So who came up with the acronym?

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  Um, a good friend of ours from the neighborhood, um, his name is Raid, right? And him and Method Man is like, they was like real close, like brothers. So when we was in the studio, um, right into it, um, he was there and, um, He just sat back and he just came up with Cash Rules, Everything Around Me and M M F. They put it together and next thing you know that that was a hook. You know, at that time for me, I was still writing a lot of stories. You know, so I wrote, believe it or not, I wrote two verses for Cream. I didn't write. My rhyme never started off as I grew up on the crime side. I was writing about drug dealers in the in the neighborhood, like, I know this kid by the name of Giganti.

• 1:19:05Speaker 02

  Giganti of Teflon Don with a Diamanti. You know, the Diamanti's back in the days was like the, you know, the five series Benz's for us back then. And um, a good friend of mine was like, oh, that rhyme is cool. My things are high. Like, why you don't like the rhyme? Everybody else like it. He was like, it's cool, I like it. So he made me go back and change it. And when I changed it, I started to think before I wrote it. I'm like, damn, he said, yo, you need to rhyme about shit that's something that we could relate to that we're dealing with around. What the fuck we wake up to every day? And that's when I came with, I grew up on the crime side, you know, the New York Times side.

• 1:19:48Joe Rogan?

  Mm, so he, he just told you harder?

• 1:19:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, he just told me to think harder.

• 1:19:53Joe Rogan?

  Harder, yeah.

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  He said, yo, Chef, you could, you could, you could be a little bit more creative.

• 1:19:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, Cream is crazy because it became viral. That, that saying dollar, dollar bills, y'all became viral.

• 1:20:05Speaker 02

  But you know where that come from, the dollar, dollar bill, y'all, dollar bill, y'all, dollar, dollar, dollar, T La Rock, that's.

• 1:20:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  You remember that record?

• 1:20:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:15Speaker 02

  Money, it takes money.

• 1:20:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  Whatever he was saying back then.

• 1:20:20Joe Rogan?

  I haven't heard that for ever.

• 1:20:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's an old school record right there. Fly shit though. But um, yeah, M F and them, you know, M F and my man Ray, they sat down and they came up with Cash Rule, Everything Around Me, and it was a perfect, a perfect, you know, symbol of what we were trying to express that we were always trying to get money, but we was dealing with certain things in our community that. You know, that we were trying to get past first to try to make some money. And, and it was a sacrifice. It was like, yo, you do this shit, you might be able to get out of it alive, or you might not. You know, so that record, you know, wound up blowing up so big, it wound up being one of our biggest records.

• 1:21:05Speaker 02

  And it didn't have nothing to do with, it, it, I guess, to me, it didn't feel hip hop. It just felt like real realization, like, real shit is, is, we need to start listening, like, oh, you just played the ghetto's boy shit, you know what I mean? We trying to give off a message, a message. And that's what I think that people love about Wu-Tang is that, we give out messages, we give out, we, we like an emotional roller coaster group. We can give you the Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothing to fuck with. And then we can give you the tears where it's like, oh shit.

• 1:21:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  The fuck, he's right. You know what I mean? Yo, we gotta be careful. We gotta look at things for real. So, all that had a lot to do with being around smart guys, you know what I mean? The, the, the smartness allowed us to write the way we wanted to write.

• 1:21:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  And, um.

• 1:21:58Joe Rogan?

  It's contagious.

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  It was contagious back then.

• 1:22:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying about like really good lyrics and high quality rap, it's contagious.

• 1:22:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:07Joe Rogan?

  Cause then everybody else's shit has to be tight too.

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you know, when you coming with a group of guys that, yo, he kill it, you better come in.

• 1:22:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:22:14Speaker 02

  You have to come in and, and say some shit that makes sense. Like, I, I give a lot of credit to our first record, right? Protect Your Neck. And I know that's one of your favorite shits. When Inspector Dex said, "A smoke on a mic like smoking Joe Frazier, the Hellraiser, raising hell with the flavor."

• 1:22:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:35Speaker 02

  That right there opened up.

• 1:22:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:38Speaker 02

  Something with all of us.

• 1:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:40Speaker 02

  You know, and, um. I always tell Deck, I'm like, yo Deck, you are like a, um, you are like a Scottie Pippen. You always gonna hit if you get the ball in your hand. You know, and he did that. He created those, that first verse that, you notice me, I jumped right in, my honor.

• 1:22:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:59Speaker 02

  My arms rugged, it built like Schwarzenegger.

• 1:23:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  Then Meth came, then, you know what I mean, everybody kinda like.

• 1:23:05Joe Rogan?

  That's what's so amazing about all these killers, all these different voices, all these amazing lyrics, all in one song.

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But we wanted to, we wanted to show the world that each one of us had a style that was unreckoned. Um, each one of us can paint a picture within our own way, that you will love all of us. So it's better to get us all now. You know, we'll sacrifice the, the little, the little look for the bigger look later.

• 1:23:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:23:37Speaker 02

  You know, and that was one of the situations where we had to dance a certain way to be like, okay, yeah, we'll take the little bit of money. But we know we're gonna be able to sell, like you said, yeah, give us those fifty, we'll sell them. Now, we know, you telling me you don't got the money, but you got the relationships. Okay, cool, as long as you got the relationship, as long as you got the money.

• 1:23:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  We gonna go out there and we gonna work to make it happen, but this is what's gotta happen. And you know, I, I give all the credit to Steve Rifkin, you know, um, Steve was the guy that owned Loud Records back then. Um, he was a part of RCA back then.

• 1:24:19Speaker 02

  And, um, he believed in us. It's like, yo, I'll give you all that deal. I'll give you all that deal. And next thing you know, when everybody started taking off, now you got Method Man over here, you got Jizz over here, you got Old Dirty Bastard over here. So we did something that was so new to the world that. It's like, oh shit.

• 1:24:38Joe Rogan?

  From the outside, it felt different because it felt like a movement.

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:24:42Joe Rogan?

  It's like Wu-Tang was like a movement.

• 1:24:44Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:24:44Joe Rogan?

  It was, it was different.

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  But everybody tried to box it. Everybody tried to box this as a group.

• 1:24:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:49Speaker 02

  So even though we knew we were a group, in our minds, we looked at it, like you said, as a movement being created that would eventually spread out and, and, and hit all corners of everything. And that was the plan all the time. That was a premeditated plan. Because they wanted us to still be a group. It was like, nah, we, look, we sacrificing this and that, but we not going to box ourselves.

• 1:25:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:25:15Speaker 02

  You know, so by us doing that, it kind of like really paved the way for other groups and other artists and everybody to, to, to kind of, you know, follow this blueprint. So now you have, you know, these other, other guys coming out and creating their own labels and bringing in artists that they wanted to do. So to me, this kind of made hip hop a little bit more interesting because it showed that artists were starting to get more smarter, which is important. You know, we didn't want to be just, like you said, yo, just coming in and you sell your soul and you know, just stay there. Nah, we can't just stay there.

• 1:25:55Joe Rogan?

  Is one of the hardest parts getting the right beat?

• 1:25:58Speaker 02

  Oh, the beat is everything, bro.

• 1:26:02Joe Rogan?

  Because it seems like all you guys are very prolific. Everybody can write.

• 1:26:07Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:26:07Joe Rogan?

  But if you don't have a great beat, and how many great beats can you make? Right? If you got an album, then another album's coming out next year, like, whoa. You gotta have sixteen, twenty great beats?

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:19Joe Rogan?

  And then you gotta pick from those beats, what, what, you know, what goes with what song? And try different ways out, and you gotta make sure everybody shows up at the studio? How hard was that?

• 1:26:28Speaker 02

  The shit was real, bro. I mean, I tell people all the time, like, number one for us, like, you know, being around so many different lyricists, lyricist guys.

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  Beats are important. You know, I remember one time a fan asked me, he said, yo, what's the most important thing to you? The rhyme or the beat? He fucked me up the whole day with that. I was fucked up. And, and, and, and I, and I answered him, I gave him an answer like, probably like, three or four minutes later and I was like, you know what? Nobody never asked me that. I said, the beat. I said, you know why the beat? Because the beat makes you think about what you wanna say and what you wanna get across. You know, anybody could make rhymes. I can have you sit with me for fucking a month and you could be an ill fucking rapper. You, I can take you there. But to be able to have that combination factor of making

• 1:27:26Speaker 02

  a body of work or, or that sound that you want, you need to have the right production. So, a lot of times Wu-Tang wrote to whatever they felt. It's like how you can listen to Protect Your Neck and you get that energy from us. Yes. You know, you get a certain energy because of that production. Then you get this energy when you get, you, you get a cream, you get that. Right. So, for me, I always tell people the beat is everything. You know, and us just sitting down and waiting for RZA to come up with something, like one thing about RZA, he was so clever. You know, he had a team of guys that was around him that was assisting him to helping him come with different sounds and, you know, he played with different things and of course,

• 1:28:11Speaker 02

  you know, just having his ear for music and listening to other people's stuff. He was able to isolate himself away from everything and, and start brainstorming for us. So, it's like, um, he was like, um, he was like the Steelers back in the fucking eighties, you know what I mean? When they won four Super Bowls in a row. He was like that when Terry Bradshaw and them was playing, Lynn Smaw.

• 1:28:36Joe Rogan?

  He was in a zone.

• 1:28:37Speaker 02

  He was in a, he was really in his own way.

• 1:28:40Joe Rogan?

  Especially because it became successful.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:42Joe Rogan?

  And then there was a lot of motivation behind it, a lot of energy behind it.

• 1:28:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:45Joe Rogan?

  I hear what you're saying, but without the lyrics, the beat is not the same. It's, I, I see from your perspective as a lyricist and as an MC that you would think that the beat is more important. Cause it's important to you to get started.

• 1:28:59Speaker 02

  To get started.

• 1:29:00Joe Rogan?

  But damn, for, as a fan, you have to have those lyrics.

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:04Joe Rogan?

  Just the beats by themselves, that's not enough.

• 1:29:06Speaker 02

  Look.

• 1:29:06Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  You know how many times me and Riz would argue about that? And I would tell him like, yo, listen, bro. It took, it took all of us. It took, yeah, you had that.

• 1:29:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:16Speaker 02

  You had this, we had that. That's what, you know.

• 1:29:19Joe Rogan?

  It's a fifty fifty proposition.

• 1:29:20Speaker 02

  It's always like that.

• 1:29:22Joe Rogan?

  Forty. I think it's more sixty lyrics because the thing is the lyrics are the thing that make you go, oh.

• 1:29:27Speaker 02

  Shit.

• 1:29:29Joe Rogan?

  Like a great, great beat makes you move your head and gets you going, but lyrics make you go, oh shit. Like rewind that.

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  Well, you know, that, you know, me is fifty fifty all the time because if I have nothing to give me that energy to write.

• 1:29:45Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:29:46Speaker 02

  How can I give it to you if I don't have nothing?

• 1:29:48Joe Rogan?

  It's a collaboration for sure. It's a collaboration for sure. But, but it's interesting that people would think, like, what's more important? Like, what's, what's more important, breathing or having a heartbeat? Shut the fuck up. Like, you need both. You need both.

• 1:30:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, you gotta balance it.

• 1:30:01Joe Rogan?

  You have to have both. But that's the, where the collaboration comes in. Yeah, I had Scott Storch in here the other day.

• 1:30:07Speaker 02

  Oh, what?

• 1:30:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I love that dude. He's so fucking talented, so out there, you know? His glasses on, just fucking, like, he's seeing, feeling the music.

• 1:30:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:17Joe Rogan?

  It's like a rare savant. There's dudes like that that are like beat machines. You know, like he just feels it, it comes into his head and he feels it and it's just coming out of his fingers, you know?

• 1:30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's a super talented.

• 1:30:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so talented.

• 1:30:31Speaker 02

  I love him.

• 1:30:31Joe Rogan?

  But like, that kind of guy is so special. And, you know, to team, uh, the kind of guy like that up with Dre or, you know, with, uh, you know, Fifty or any of these people that he. Collaborated with, it's like, that's, that's special.

• 1:30:46Speaker 02

  And that's why, like I said, you know what I mean, you, you can't never front on the maestro, you know what I mean? You gotta remember that, you know, DJing started it all, let's, let's be honest, you know what I mean? The DJ game, that was so important, scratching, you know, they created a, a synergy to the artist to be like, yo, let me, let me try this. Even, even if you go back to, like I said, look at, look at Quincy Jones, man, look, look what the fuck he did, man.

• 1:31:14Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:31:15Speaker 02

  You know, look at, look at Frank Sinatra, like, who the fuck was handling his fucking music, man?

• 1:31:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  He was so clever. He needed a vibe, though. He needed something, you know, who was that guy?

• 1:31:26Joe Rogan?

  You ever hear of Frank Sinatra when he was young?

• 1:31:28Speaker 02

  Oh, he was fucking.

• 1:31:29Joe Rogan?

  Before he was smoking all those cigarettes? Yeah, it's a super high pitched voice, it's crazy.

• 1:31:33Speaker 02

  It's crazy, right?

• 1:31:34Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy, you listen to the difference, like, wow, it had so much range.

• 1:31:38Speaker 02

  Who was the production, though?

• 1:31:39Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, I don't know, you know, somebody.

• 1:31:41Speaker 02

  He never really got, he never really got famous, I guess.

• 1:31:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think the whole thing back then was Elvis, or whoever it was, you know, whoever was the person that was in front. Everybody behind the scenes didn't really get that much respect.

• 1:31:53Speaker 02

  Right, yeah, but he was a talent, man, fucking boy.

• 1:31:56Joe Rogan?

  Who was that crazy dude that wore the wigs that shot that lady in LA? He produced all the Beatles shit. He had that, he got tried for murder and every day on, in the courtroom, he'd wear a different wild wig. He created the wall of sound, fuck, what's his name? He was really insane. Phil Spector.

• 1:32:14Speaker 02

  Phil Spector.

• 1:32:15Joe Rogan?

  Phil Spector, back in the day, he was known for pulling guns on people. He'd pull guns on people, stick them in their mouths and shit, he was a complete psychopath.

• 1:32:23Speaker 02

  White guy?

• 1:32:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and he, Jewish guy, I think, and he shot this lady in the mouth.

• 1:32:28Speaker 02

  Whoa, shit.

• 1:32:29Joe Rogan?

  Was he Jewish? I don't want any Jewish people mad at me. Jewish people get mad when you say someone's not Jewish and they did something terrible.

• 1:32:37Speaker 02

  Hey, look guys, we not here to

• 1:32:39Joe Rogan?

  I'm just saying a little

• 1:32:40Speaker 02

  Fuck with nobody, you know what I mean?

• 1:32:42Joe Rogan?

  Talented, successful Jewish people in the entertainment business.

• 1:32:44Speaker 02

  Right, right, be clear, man, yeah.

• 1:32:45Joe Rogan?

  But that dude, uh, he, uh, he was responsible for the wall of sound, the Beatles. Like, that was a big thing with him. Like, he was, uh, known for being a guy that would change people's music. Russian Jewish, boom, nailed it.

• 1:33:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:00Joe Rogan?

  What's up?

• 1:33:01Speaker 02

  And he was from the Bronx, eh?

• 1:33:02Joe Rogan?

  From the Bronx, yeah.

• 1:33:03Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 1:33:04Joe Rogan?

  Wild, wild boy.

• 1:33:05Speaker 02

  Wow, god.

• 1:33:07Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, shot some lady, picked up some lady at a bar, took her back to his place and shot her in the mouth.

• 1:33:11Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 1:33:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he would, he would put guns in people's mouths. Like, he was known for threatening people. Like, you wanna get out of this fucking contract? And just shove a gun in your mouth.

• 1:33:19Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:33:21Joe Rogan?

  What's that? He pulled a gun on Cher.

• 1:33:24Speaker 02

  He pulled a gun out on Cher?

• 1:33:26Joe Rogan?

  Cher recalls stopping Phil Spector in his tracks when he pulled a gun on her. He put, and pulled that shit with me, right, right, right, right. We had this really strange relationship. You don't say, you don't say. You know, well, it's like the music business at one point in time was run entirely by gangsters.

• 1:33:42Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:33:42Joe Rogan?

  That's the story about Hendrix. You know, the story about Hendrix is that his manager killed him. That's the conspiracy. Was that his manager killed him because it's more valuable for Hendrix to be dead. His music, he's a, um, maestro, like a one in a billion year talent. And that they knew that they had all these recordings of him and they could kill him. And so, that's why, like, his girlfriend jumped off the top of a building. Yeah, to own his shit. Cause he was gonna leave his management. His, uh, bodyguard wrote a book about it years later. And it just came out like, I wanna say like, This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Scams have gotten smarter because criminals use AI to flood you with fake texts, emails, and phone calls that are designed to be more convincing than ever.

• 1:34:27Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:05Joe Rogan?

  That's promo code JRE or go to lifelock.com/jre for 30% off. Terms apply.

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• 1:35:44Joe Rogan?

  10 years ago, well not long ago, whereas the bodyguard said, yeah, the manager killed him, killed Hendrix and threw the girlfriend off a roof.

• 1:35:52Speaker 02

  Did they do a movie of him too?

• 1:35:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, they did a bunch of movies on Hendrix. They need to do a real Wu-Tang movie. I know Hulu had a series, but they need a real like Quentin Tarantino needs to do a Wu-Tang. I know Quentin Tarantino, that's what I think. I think we talk Quentin Tarantino, because he wants to do one more movie. How about he does a fucking Wu-Tang movie? The real Wu-Tang movie. It's like Hulu's great, but it has to be on Hulu. You can only get that so wild on Hulu. You know, like for it to be real, real, it has to be a movie.

• 1:36:25Speaker 02

  Let me tell you something. I wrote a book, right? And inside my book, I talked about how Q-Tip, a good friend of mine, Q-Tip, he had, he had me and Leonardo sit down.

• 1:36:38Joe Rogan?

  Leonardo DiCaprio?

• 1:36:39Speaker 02

  Huh?

• 1:36:40Joe Rogan?

  Leonardo DiCaprio?

• 1:36:41Speaker 02

  Leonardo DiCaprio, right? And I remember Q-Tip was like, yo, set up a meeting for you and Leonardo to meet in Brooklyn at this small pizza shop, one of Leonardo's favorite spots. And he wanted to talk to you. I said, yeah, that's what's up. So me and Leonardo, we started talking and he was like, yo, Q-Tip was telling me that you was, he was thinking about trying to, you know, get guys together to create a movie. I was like, yeah, this is what I was thinking. So make a long story short, I set up a meeting with RZA. Myself, Leonardo's peoples in L.A. And I told RZA, I said, listen, before we do this Hulu thing, which at the end of the day, it was a RZA's,

• 1:37:26Speaker 02

  a RZA's production thing or whatever he was doing, I said, I think we need to make a realistic, real-life movie of us. Said it, it shouldn't be nothing that we should play with because people need to know our real story. So RZA entertained the conversation, but I don't know, for some reason, I guess he felt like he was committed to doing whatever he wanted to do with Hulu.

• 1:37:52Joe Rogan?

  He might already had a deal.

• 1:37:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, and you know, like I said, at the end of the day, the clan.

• 1:37:57Joe Rogan?

  Look at that.

• 1:37:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:59Joe Rogan?

  Jamie fast with him, Jamie's the best.

• 1:38:01Speaker 02

  It was that, it was that night, and I remember that.

• 1:38:04Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  I wish we could have been able to sit down with him, cuz the way I had him looking at it, it was almost like I told him, I said, this would be like a smat, like a um slash of, of Goodfellas and um Menace Society.

• 1:38:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:21Speaker 02

  Mixed in one.

• 1:38:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:23Speaker 02

  You know, to kinda talk about our story and whatever, and he was super open, he was like, yo chef, what we gotta do, yo? Who do we need to talk to, but at that time, RZA was already in pocket on what he wanted to do. So I said, you know what, one day, you know, maybe I might get a chance to show my version of it. Because come on, how many, how many Pablo Escobar movies we looked at?

• 1:38:45Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:38:46Speaker 02

  You know what I mean, you got these guys telling it, you got the people from the community.

• 1:38:49Joe Rogan?

  It can still be made, for sure.

• 1:38:50Speaker 02

  So it can still be made.

• 1:38:51Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent, just because there's a Hulu, that doesn't mean shit.

• 1:38:54Speaker 02

  Right, but I think that at the end of the day, you know, God willing, we will really give you guys a, another taste of, of really how, how we really see it, you know?

• 1:39:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think it would be hugely successful, I think for uh music, from, from a movie, rather, perspective.

• 1:39:12Speaker 02

  Would you rather see it as a movie?

• 1:39:14Joe Rogan?

  A movie.

• 1:39:14Speaker 02

  A movie.

• 1:39:15Joe Rogan?

  A movie.

• 1:39:16Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:39:16Joe Rogan?

  Or you do it like on Netflix where you can get wild.

• 1:39:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:20Joe Rogan?

  You know, do it like, you know, like Netflix has shit like Ozzy. They get wild on Netflix. You can get wild. That's how it has to be. It has to be grimy. It has to be.

• 1:39:30Speaker 02

  That's how you want it, right?

• 1:39:31Joe Rogan?

  It can't be in any way ABC after school specialized. You know what I'm saying? Like, it can't be, it can't be cleaned up through a filter. It has to be good, too. It has to be like, good narrative. Like, it has to be set up. The scenes have to be set. Because it's very hard to take an insane career of nine of the best MCs to get together under one mastermind with all these genius talents and they form this movement. And you're gonna condense that to two hours?

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. See, that was one of Riz's beefs right there. He was, he was like, yo, Ray, yo, yo, blah, blah, blah, yo.

• 1:40:09Joe Rogan?

  But I think it could be done. I think it could be done.

• 1:40:11Speaker 02

  I said, yo, look, come on now. I said, people do it all the time. I said, yo, look at, prime example, look at NWA. I thought NWA movie was dope. You know what I mean? Straight out of Compton. I thought they did a good job, but that was Dre and Cube and, you know. I'm sure, I'm sure, you always gonna have somebody around that be like, yo, nah, that ain't it, that ain't. But it was so realistic that when I seen ours, it was like, alright, I get it. You know, Riz even said to y'all, you know, this is more for the younger generation to kind of gravitate to. And once everybody loved it, they loved it. So it was like, okay, y'all love it. We love y'all for loving it.

• 1:40:51Joe Rogan?

  It's great. It's great. But hear me out. Opening of the movie, Rikers. Opening of the movie, you guys show up at Rikers to do the concert where old Eddie Bastard's inside. That's the opening of the movie. That's the opening of the movie.

• 1:41:07Speaker 02

  You want all the real gritty. You want the gritty.

• 1:41:09Joe Rogan?

  Just get everybody on the hook right away. And then you bring them back to the beginning. Right after that.

• 1:41:17Speaker 02

  See what I'm saying?

• 1:41:18Joe Rogan?

  You know, you put the year, whatever it was.

• 1:41:20Speaker 02

  And that's how you make movies.

• 1:41:21Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:41:22Speaker 02

  You pick all the greatest moments.

• 1:41:23Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:41:24Speaker 02

  And then you start selling and threading, right?

• 1:41:27Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that's a no brainer for a Wu-Tang movie. You start with Rikers. You start with Rikers, which is what year was that? Ninety-five? What year is that?

• 1:41:36Speaker 02

  When did?

• 1:41:37Joe Rogan?

  What year was the Old Dirty Bastard and Rikers concert with Wu-Tang?

• 1:41:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was about to say, look up that.

• 1:41:42Joe Rogan?

  And what year did you guys start? What was the very first year?

• 1:41:45Speaker 02

  We started, we started in ninety, ninety, late ninety-two.

• 1:41:48Joe Rogan?

  So you start, you start the movie with Rikers and then you bring it back to ninety-two. Back to ninety-two. That's what it is. That's what it is. I mean, just think about the incredible amount of talent, not just, not just rap. Really, Jizza's like a, a world champion caliber chess player.

• 1:42:09Speaker 05

  Ninety-nine, two thousand or so?

• 1:42:10Joe Rogan?

  Ninety-nine, two thousand?

• 1:42:12Speaker 05

  RZA, yeah, I got our interview, RZA talking about it.

• 1:42:16Joe Rogan?

  And doesn't Jizza have some degree in physics?

• 1:42:18Speaker 02

  Smart motherfucker, man.

• 1:42:20Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't he have some crazy degree?

• 1:42:21Speaker 02

  Smart, he's like a...

• 1:42:23Joe Rogan?

  Look that up, please.

• 1:42:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:25Joe Rogan?

  So, you just, that alone in the movie is like, come on, this is real?

• 1:42:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is what people was looking forward to looking at.

• 1:42:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, think of a movie like that. Think of a movie that starts up with the gates opening. And you guys going in, put your, put all your belongings in the basket, the whole shit, getting frisked, checking everybody down, the guy reading you the rules, the warden telling you, do not go into the crowd, do not do that, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, cool, cool, cool.

• 1:42:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, we got you, yeah.

• 1:42:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:54Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:42:54Joe Rogan?

  Think about it. That's the beginning of the movie.

• 1:42:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:57Joe Rogan?

  That's an incredible opening for a movie. And it really happened. This isn't bullshit. This isn't a bunch of dorks sitting around a table, coming up with some nonsense. This is some shit that you lived through. That would be an incredible opening for a movie.

• 1:43:12Speaker 02

  And, and it's just, and it's just so even credible even more on how we connected because, like I said, everybody come from almost the same poverty bullshit, but everybody had different philosophies on how they felt their lives was going into. You know, um, you know, I tell people all the time, you know, my neighborhood was about making money. You know, Ghost's neighborhood was about... Taking money, you know what I mean, taking shit from you, you know. Um, Jizza, you know, being one of the MCs that could have been down with the Juice Crew. You know what I mean, you know who the fuck the Juice Crew is, he turned it down.

• 1:43:54Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:43:55Speaker 02

  It's like they was the hottest shit back then, Master Ace, Biz, Kane, Coogee Rat. All these, all these dope MCs, they asked me, yo, we want you to come and get, get down with us. He's like, nah, you know what, nah, you know, all these things I remember like yesterday, like.

• 1:44:10Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:44:11Speaker 02

  Turned down the Juice Crew? He was like, I love the Juice Crew, but I just was in, in this, this chamber right here. You know, us, Dirty, us with old Dirty, like, yo, you know, old Dirty always wanted to be like Biz, Biz Markie. He had that personality, that charisma, that, that energy. So like you said, these are the things that I wanted to see, each individual, like, you know. And like I said, you know, shout out Hulu, man, for, for doing a great job, but I do agree like you, we need another movie. Where it really defines who we are.

• 1:44:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:48Speaker 02

  You know, um, RZA, you know, RZA, you know, that was his, his side of how he wanted to tell it, you know, um.

• 1:44:55Joe Rogan?

  It's a great story, it's, it's fine, it's fine, the Hulu thing's fine. But I think there's something missing, and I think the something missing is a movie. It's a, it's gotta be a movie, it's gotta be a big screen, big thing, and it could be done, man.

• 1:45:10Speaker 02

  Heard it first, man, yeah, I heard it first, I ain't have to, I ain't have to argue with my brothers about it.

• 1:45:14Joe Rogan?

  I mean, uh, just imagine, ima- imagine when, uh, ODB does Baby I Got Your Money.

• 1:45:21Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:45:22Joe Rogan?

  Come on, imagine that, and that becomes this massive hit?

• 1:45:25Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 1:45:26Joe Rogan?

  Massive hit.

• 1:45:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, he had, you know, he had the most hits on, out of all of us, right?

• 1:45:31Joe Rogan?

  He was so fucking talented, man, and so real. You remember when he was on MTV and they started talking about like, what are you gonna, what are you gonna give? Where are you gonna give your money, he's like, I gave my money to nobody.

• 1:45:41Speaker 02

  He's like, he was like, yo, you gonna give back, he was like, yo. Yo, yeah, I remember that shit, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:48Joe Rogan?

  And everybody was crying.

• 1:45:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:50Joe Rogan?

  They're like, ah, cuz it was so real. Cuz it was so real. It wasn't like, well, I think it's really important that we establish some sort of a community fund. Shut the fuck up.

• 1:45:58Speaker 02

  He was like, you ain't gonna make nothing, you know what I mean? But, you know, we always gave back in our own ways, though.

• 1:46:04Joe Rogan?

  Of course. Well, by existing, you give back. By existing, you inspire others. By existing, you know, how many rap careers, how many hip-hop careers were inspired by Wu-Tang Clan? And all the members? Countless, countless.

• 1:46:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:19Joe Rogan?

  So many.

• 1:46:20Speaker 02

  I say that we definitely had a, a, a piece of watching the, the, the new generation grow and, you know, kind of, you know, build their, build their arc the way we built ours. You know, that's important, you know, to, um, to, to reflect on that. You know, back then, like you said, nobody wasn't giving motherfuckers this kind of money. Like, we was the first group that ever had a million-dollar video.

• 1:46:48Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:46:48Speaker 02

  You know, um, I remember that day, me and RZA was coming up with the, with the storyboard.

• 1:46:54Joe Rogan?

  What video was that?

• 1:46:55Speaker 02

  Triumph.

• 1:46:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:46:57Speaker 02

  He did the Triumph shit, it was like, you know, he came up with all this shit, and he was like, yo, this shit's gonna cost a million dollars. You're like, what the fuck is, what's a million dollars? Like, do it. You know, and at that time, you know.

• 1:47:07Joe Rogan?

  Is this it? Oh, let me hear this.

• 1:47:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. This is with my guy Brett Ratner.

• 1:47:12Speaker 06

  By swarms of killer bees.

• 1:47:14Speaker 02

  The first jones.

• 1:47:15Speaker 06

  They've been seen approaching from Brooklyn, the Bronx, Queens, and Staten Island.

• 1:47:20Speaker 02

  See the bees coming through and shit?

• 1:47:23Speaker 06

  As we will be bringing you up-to-the-minute information. This just in. Police are reporting that there's a man on top of a skyscraper, ready to jump. I'm told that he is possibly old, dirty, a member of the Wu-Tang Clan. The police suspect that there could be some connection between this old, dirty man and the killer bees.

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  Old, dirty man.

• 1:48:00Speaker 02

  Woo.

• 1:48:53Joe Rogan?

  Woo.

• 1:48:54Speaker 02

  Old days of the Klan and.

• 1:48:55Joe Rogan?

  Is it weird looking back now? Does it feel almost surreal that you guys did it?

• 1:49:00Speaker 02

  A little bit to me, yeah.

• 1:49:01Joe Rogan?

  It has to.

• 1:49:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, to me for sure. I mean, you know, you know, I always believed in my group, man. I mean, these guys is, like you said, very talented, very talented. Sometimes we don't know our power when we come together, but we might be the only group that stick together so long, you know, because we all feed off each other every time. So to be able to reflect back when we was in our prime, it was like, we still ain't even give our best. It was almost like, okay, yeah, we gonna do it because we have to, not do it because we're all in a happy vibe or happy moment. A lot of times we made great things happen out of nothing.

• 1:49:45Speaker 02

  You know, under pressure, might have been turbulence in the room, might have been an argument that happened that day. But we still managed to come out with something great out of that whole time of, of that moment, you know, but um.

• 1:49:58Joe Rogan?

  That's what's incredible is that through all the disputes, you guys still stay together.

• 1:50:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:03Joe Rogan?

  That's because there's no way you're gonna have nine dudes and not have disputes.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:50:07Joe Rogan?

  Especially nine alphas, nine killers.

• 1:50:10Speaker 02

  It's hard, man, it's hard because, you know, everybody has an opinion. And, and you wanna respect everybody's opinion, you know. But it, it made me think about sports and it made me think about how coaches and people, you know, outside of the group are so important. See, how we were, we were designed, we, we huddled up, but we never really had people around us kinda like push the narrative more to show us our true power. So, we made a lot of mistakes, you know, of, of being great, but still handling the business a little bit different, different from if we'd have had some, some coaches.

• 1:50:53Joe Rogan?

  Some guidance.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  Some guidance.

• 1:50:54Joe Rogan?

  The problem was, back then, no one knew what was going on.

• 1:50:58Speaker 02

  Nobody knew.

• 1:50:58Joe Rogan?

  Cause it was so fresh, it was so new. The whole genre had only existed for six or seven years.

• 1:51:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:51:05Joe Rogan?

  So, it was, it was, it was emerging and it was chaotic and it was so exciting, but there wasn't a lot of experts in how to manage it.

• 1:51:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:14Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's like today, you know, you could, you could, you know, a young artist could come to a guy like you and say, "Hey, what should I do? Help me out." Like, what, what is, what's the path that you think that I should take?

• 1:51:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:26Joe Rogan?

  And you could give them real advice, where back then, like, who knew?

• 1:51:29Speaker 02

  Who knew?

• 1:51:30Joe Rogan?

  Who knew Wu-Tang was gonna work? They would've told you, "That's not gonna work." They would've said, "You can't get nine dudes in a, that's crazy, how are you doing that?"

• 1:51:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:37Joe Rogan?

  But it worked.

• 1:51:38Speaker 02

  But it worked.

• 1:51:39Joe Rogan?

  It didn't just work, it like accelerated everybody, like amplified all the voices. That's what was so crazy about it. Is it just, it, it didn't just work, it worked better than being by yourself.

• 1:51:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I tell people all the time, I don't, the Klan, I think we all got better based on us as a collective.

• 1:51:57Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:51:58Speaker 02

  Nobody, nobody couldn't have did it by themselves and be great.

• 1:52:02Joe Rogan?

  Iron sharpens iron.

• 1:52:04Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:52:04Joe Rogan?

  And that's what it is.

• 1:52:05Speaker 02

  Steel sharpened steel.

• 1:52:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you guys had so many killers together, there's no way it couldn't be great. That's what's incredible. It's like, it's so hard for people to do that.

• 1:52:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:16Joe Rogan?

  That's why it's never been done before, which is amazing. If you think about the history of hip hop, how many artists have come up and not one group has come together and made like a, oh, they're just like Wu-Tang. Not one.

• 1:52:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:29Joe Rogan?

  Not one.

• 1:52:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, even when it comes to, you know, sales and, you know, each one of us was blessed to be able to go platinum and gold. But we talk about that, you know, sometimes when we all are together, we, we laugh and we say, damn, you know, no other groups did what we did, like come with guys that everybody in the group went gold and platinum and this and that and I can't, I couldn't name one person. They was like, yo, name one person that, name one group that did what we did at that level back then. I couldn't name it, you know what I mean? Because.

• 1:53:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, the ghetto boys branched out, you know, Scarface obviously went on to have a massive career.

• 1:53:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:07Joe Rogan?

  Did you see his little tiny desk performance?

• 1:53:09Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:10Joe Rogan?

  Fucking incredible. Fucking incredible.

• 1:53:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:12Joe Rogan?

  Incredible.

• 1:53:13Speaker 02

  That's one of my greatest friends too, man.

• 1:53:15Joe Rogan?

  And so different than anything else. Like the way he did it, like he adapted the lyrics to the environment. Yeah. Oh, it was incredible. Incredible.

• 1:53:25Speaker 02

  Scarface is a, a real guy too, man. A real.

• 1:53:28Joe Rogan?

  One of the all timers. One of the all time greats.

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:31Joe Rogan?

  All time greats.

• 1:53:32Speaker 02

  Had him come to your show yet?

• 1:53:33Joe Rogan?

  I haven't yet. No, I'd love to have him on. I love that dude. I've had Willie on.

• 1:53:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:53:37Joe Rogan?

  I think that, like, there's so many amazing talents that came out of that nineties hip hop era that like for a, a young guy coming up, someone who's like interested in a career in it now, it's imperative that you go back. Go back. You have to.

• 1:53:53Speaker 02

  You have to.

• 1:53:53Joe Rogan?

  You gotta explore the classics. You gotta see what started this whole thing.

• 1:53:58Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:53:58Joe Rogan?

  Because, and you gotta put yourself in this mindset, like, it's hard to imagine my experience of it because you, you're not gonna be able to have it. It's always been around. But for me, it was like when it came around, it was this totally new thing. It's totally new sound. Totally new like avenue of music that existed. And everybody was like, wow. And all the young people were excited. Everybody was excited, like, this is crazy.

• 1:54:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:25Joe Rogan?

  This is so different than everything else.

• 1:54:29Joe Rogan?

  You know, and so for the people that are like making a career in it now, like, ooh, you know, I know there's like a tendency to think you're the fucking man and everything else sucks. I'm telling you, you gotta abandon that. Abandon that thinking. Go back and educate yourself, you know, because it's free. Just get on, go get on YouTube, get on Spotify, educate yourself. There's so much classic shit from the nineties that you're, you're missing.

• 1:54:54Speaker 02

  And all we were doing really was just, like you said, just expression, you know?

• 1:54:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:00Speaker 02

  Being in the studio, smoking a lot of weed, you know? And a lot of times when we were smoking and just vibing, it's like we were mentioning things that, you know, like today, like prime example, you know, I own, I own a cannabis business um, in Newark called Hash Thoriah, you know what I mean? See you representing us, you know, um, we said in rhymes like, can it be also simple? Yo, I wanna have me a fat yacht and enough land to go and plant my own sass crops. But for now, it was just a big dream, you know? So we kind of like spoke things into existence that at the end of the day, like, you know, now, as I sit here and I'm an owner of a cannabis business, I'm like, wow, he was talking about things.

• 1:55:44Speaker 02

  Yo, my first joint in it went gold. I put it on my mother's, you know, my, my mother's living room wall. You know, we did that. So we were kind of like saying things that meant so much to us back then, but still dreaming of it being a reality. And the next thing you know, it happens, you know, um, like how you said, you know, Jizza being so intelligent and talking about science and, you know, meth, you know, talking about certain things and, you know, now today he's in the movie world and RZA's a director and, you know, these were the things that were going through our minds as we were just smoking and listening to production and just saying, yo, what, what the right next?

• 1:56:27Speaker 02

  Where, where do we want to go, you know? And I think that that is important as an artist is to dream and be creative. Don't sit in one box, like that's the shit that just be driving me crazy a lot. Where hip hop today is like, yo, it's just sounding too fucking repetition. Like let's make it bigger, let's. Let's take it over here, over here, over here. But it just, sometimes it's just sitting in one fucking box. Where it's like, yo, come on, we gotta, it's not just that. It's about opening up, opening up the doors for everybody to be able to see so many sides. Like now, it just seems like, like the hip hop shit is just being controlled by

• 1:57:12Speaker 02

  one person that's saying, yo, we want y'all to stay right there. We want you to talk ignorant, we want you to not grow, we want you to just-

• 1:57:20Joe Rogan?

  Whatever they think is gonna sell.

• 1:57:22Speaker 02

  Why is that, why is that the case? I don't get it.

• 1:57:25Joe Rogan?

  The same reason why they were trying to take the RZA and change him and turn him into something he's not. People always do that. They do that in comedy, they do that in podcasting, they do that in music. There's always some executive that thinks they know better and they're gonna mold you and shape you and change you and this is what we're gonna do, we're gonna hire an image team, we're gonna do, it's all just bullshit. It's non-artists interfering with art, that's what it is. It's when you have middlemen, you know, you have these people that profit off of your talent and they think they're gonna steer it in a way that's gonna be the most profitable. They don't give a fuck if you're like earnestly and honestly expressing yourself, that doesn't mean anything to them. They just want you to stay in that box, cuz that's the box they're selling.

• 1:58:08Joe Rogan?

  And once it sells once, they don't want you to change it up. Remember when Ice T started a fucking heavy metal band?

• 1:58:14Speaker 02

  Oh my god, yeah.

• 1:58:15Joe Rogan?

  Ice T who played a cop on TV for like fucking thirty years, he had a song called Cop Killer. Body Count. And everybody wanted him to be the rapper. And Ice T was like, nah, I'm gonna do a hardcore album. I was like, what? I'm a motherfucker, cop kill, it's like, what is this? What is this? This is crazy. But it's like, he just didn't listen, he's like, I don't give a fuck what you say, I'm gonna do what I wanna do, and this is what I wanna do now. And you have to give an artist that ability to do that. They have to be able to change it up anytime they want. Whatever, cuz whatever got them to the dance is gonna keep them dancing. And they might dance to the beat of a different song, but it's gonna be the same, the same person, that same creative force that created whatever you liked.

• 1:58:59Joe Rogan?

  In the beginning, well, you probably like this new direction they're gonna go into cuz it's gonna be just as good. It's just like, we all like, like you were saying, you like Billy Joel. We both like Cool G Rap. It's very different. You wouldn't wanna see the two of them at a concert together. You know, but the, but that's what you have to give room for in artists. And these executives and these people that are profiting off of art without being creative, their input's always terrible. It's always terrible cuz they don't have a vision. They don't really, unless you're like a Rick Rubin. Like, one of those cats that's just like, super eccentric, weirdo genius dude who just knows what he likes and go, "Hold on, hold on. Do that again. Stop that, stop, stop, stop. Do it again, do it again. Do it that way? Okay, can you make it echo? Do it, do it. Give me an echo.

• 1:59:42Speaker 02

  So, but he's working with you cuz he sees something.

• 1:59:45Joe Rogan?

  He's barefoot and shit and fucking doing yogas.

• 1:59:50Joe Rogan?

  Super weirdo. A Scott Storch-type character. Yeah, you, those guys-

• 1:59:54Speaker 02

  These guys be great in their own way, though, you know?

• 1:59:56Joe Rogan?

  They're artists, though. It's like, that's different. But when you get these suits, and the suits get involved, and they know that, oh, we made, you know, Raekwon sold a million and seven hundred thousand CDs doing it like this. So, this is what we want from this one, too. We want it to be the exact same one. We wanna do it like that. Do it like that again. Like, "What's this new thing you're doing? What's this new thing? We're talking about discipline." Uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-uh. No, no, no, no, no, no, you know? But that's one of the most important things about hip-hop, too, is like, songs inspire people to change their lives. Like, like Gangsta are a song, "Discipline." Like, that song inspires you to have discipline. It's a great fucking song with great lyrics.

• 2:00:39Speaker 02

  Like I said, like, yo, this shit became knowledge to us, man.

• 2:00:42Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:00:43Speaker 02

  You know, that's what I miss about hip-hop is the, the knowledge factor, the, you know, raising our kids to be smarter and, you know, not hiding anything from them. Like, like you said, once you put that warning stick on it, "Don't look at it," they gonna look at it anyway, so why not let them see what, for what it is and then say, "Yo, look, you can make these choices, but you go that way, you know what you're getting. You go this way, you know what you're getting."

• 2:01:11Joe Rogan?

  I think all it takes is someone today to do what you guys were doing and blow up. And then everybody would wanna do it that way. If someone today became like this genius lyricist who was like pointing out things in society and became a huge artist-

• 2:01:25Speaker 02

  But you think that music is still, you think, you think the radio- Or play it?

• 2:01:30Joe Rogan?

  I don't think the radio means jack shit anymore. I think what means something now is people sharing it. That's what means something like.

• 2:01:35Speaker 02

  How do they get it out there though?

• 2:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Someone like, put it on Spotify, put it on SoundCloud, put it on YouTube. Someone sees it, someone hears it, you send it to somebody, they send it to ten people, and then it goes viral. That's what it's all about now. I think it's just be undeniable. Be undeniable. Have some shit where you listen to it and you go, oh!

• 2:01:54Speaker 02

  Be confident, yeah.

• 2:01:54Joe Rogan?

  And you have your friends like, you gotta listen to this, listen to this, listen to this, listen to first lines, first lines.

• 2:01:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, listen to that shit. Oh my god.

• 2:02:00Speaker 02

  That's how, that's how we always sold it anyway.

• 2:02:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. Yeah, come out of the gate with a fucking haymaker. Boom!

• 2:02:07Speaker 02

  This is what we do though, you know?

• 2:02:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:09Speaker 02

  See damn, you talking like I feel about my album I'm about to drop.

• 2:02:12Joe Rogan?

  Ha, when's it coming out?

• 2:02:13Speaker 02

  I feel that way, um, well you know shit, I just, I just been working on this documentary, right, for the Purple Tape. So I'm just be honest with you, take you back. Um, I've been working on, you know, Only Built For Cuban Links is my, my what's going on album, my thriller album that I made thirty years ago. This year, twenty twenty-five would be thirty years. So what we done was, we went back and decided to do a documentary about it. A real life film. So it's called The Purple Tape Files because remind you, Only Built For Cuban Links was the name of the album. But being that I came with it as a cassette, everybody started to call this album The Purple Tape.

• 2:02:54Speaker 02

  So now, you know, we came back and we decided to do, you know, me and my team from my camp, you know, not this, you know, the Klan, of course, is the Klan. But this is something that was my intellectual property, that I said, yo, you know what? Me and my guys sat down, my team sat down and said, yo, you need to do a documentary about this album, cause you can make fifty albums. People are still gonna talk about Only Built For Cuban Links. So I said, damn, you know what, you right. So what I did was... I said, you know what, let me invest in it and kinda tell the story of what helped us inspire that album. What helped us be a part of the culture and how it still allows me to still exist today.

• 2:03:39Speaker 02

  Like, if you see a lot of these guys today in the game, they still wearing Cuban link chains. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So who would ever thought that I'm calling my album Only Built For Cuban Link Niggas? Now, everybody and their mother is wearing Cuban link chains today, thirty years later. So you know, that been something that I've been working on and believe it or not, we've been working on it for ten years. Wow. So I got over fifty influential people that was in my life that was affected by that album. To be a part of this documentary. So now, this is all in the making. We didn't, we didn't actually go out there and start pitching it yet. We're finally getting ready to do it right now, as we speak, as we speak.

• 2:04:23Speaker 02

  Once the new year kick in and all that, we will be ready to go out there and position ourselves to go do a, a deal with a network. With this project. It's gonna be ill. It's a great idea. You know what I mean? So my thing is to talk about it in a way to where the way we made the album. All the experiences, all the things that we went through. And eventually that, that would wind up becoming a movie later on. Because the storyboard of how I talk about it is gonna blow people minds. Because it's like, damn, this is what you was going through, this is, this is how your mindset was? Because I just want people to know that, that album was made, cuz I love hip hop, man.

• 2:05:05Speaker 02

  And I, you know, we were in a position to make something golden that, at that time, I was already thinking cinematic. I was already in my Martin Scorsese mindset. Because when I came in the Klan, I was like, yo, I don't do all the karate shit. I don't know how to rhyme like that. I don't even know about drugs and hustlers and trying to get from here to there and, and, and turn my life around for the positive, you know? So, we talk about this in a documentary and we go through some of the songs and, like I said, you know, I got some of my guys that, you know, we had, we had, um, you know, we had, um, Conflicts with some artists out there like Big, Biggie back then, everybody thought we had a beef and,

• 2:05:50Speaker 02

  you know, just, it becomes interesting, but the bottom line is that's what I've been working on alongside with, working on some other music. So I just said that, yo, let me get this done the right way first, and then I'mma, you know, drop some new music. So I got, I got a definitely new album getting ready to come out.

• 2:06:08Joe Rogan?

  When is that gonna come out, you think?

• 2:06:09Speaker 02

  The new album, um, I'd say probably like between second quarter right now. Yeah, and I never even mentioned the name of the album, but I'll mention it on your show. The name of the album is gonna be called The Emperor's New Clothes. Um, you ever heard that Dutch folk tale?

• 2:06:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:26Speaker 02

  You familiar with it?

• 2:06:27Joe Rogan?

  The emperor wears no clothes, yeah.

• 2:06:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's gonna be the name of it, because I feel like the status quo today, everybody follows bullshit. Nobody wants to be genuine no more. Nobody wants to call out shit that makes sense. It's like, oh, if you believe it, I'm supposed to believe it. I'm supposed to believe nothing that don't feel like what it's supposed to be to me. Goes back to like you said, and I'm listening to everything you saying about, you have to do it from this way. Fuck that, fuck, fuck radio, whatever is gonna stop you from being you. You know what I mean?

• 2:06:59Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:07:00Speaker 02

  So this is the same mindset that I'm thinking with my hip hop. My new album that's coming, like, yo, I'm not gonna let you tell me that this is not what people still love. You know what I mean? I don't care, I'm just, I, I know what I know from coming up as a kid who loved hip hop and what inspired me, so, I'mma, I'mma have a ball this year, man. I got a lot of great things that I wanna give the world, but, yeah, that's gonna be the name of my new album.

• 2:07:25Joe Rogan?

  People still love it, and I'm telling you, these like young kids that I have at the comedy mothership, when I play them nineteen nineties hip hop, they go, oh! They just don't know yet.

• 2:07:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:07:35Joe Rogan?

  They just don't know.

• 2:07:35Speaker 02

  And we can't afford them because they wasn't alive probably at that time.

• 2:07:38Joe Rogan?

  Also, they got so much shit coming their way. They're getting inundated by all these new artists and all these new TikToks and this.

• 2:07:44Speaker 02

  There's so much shit going on, it's so much, yeah. There's so much going on, but, you know, I always say that it's always a lane for people that love music, you know what I mean? I don't care. It's like, you could be fifty, you know, today I'm sitting here as a fifty-five year old man that still have that kid in him to love what I, what, what, what helped me be who I am today, so. I'm still at my best when it comes to making music, you know? Like today, the chef is more of a architect artist now. I don't consider myself a gangster rapper or a funny rapper. I'm an architect rapper, you know? Because I like to reflect on things about growth and development.

• 2:08:29Speaker 02

  You know, and when people hear this album, they're gonna be like, damn, like, yo, he still fucking got it. I tell people all the time, don't ever think we're gonna lose that shit. That's like sitting here saying Mike Tyson can't fight. When you know at the end of the day, he may lose a fucking bit when it comes to how he feels that passion for boxing or whatever. I feel the same way with my music, so get ready. But then, like I said, the name of the album is called The Emperor's New Clothes. Check for that shit.

• 2:09:01Joe Rogan?

  I'm ready. I'm ready. Listen, brother, thank you very much for being here. It was a real honor, a real pleasure.

• 2:09:06Speaker 02

  You're my guy, man.

• 2:09:07Joe Rogan?

  And thank you for everything you guys have done over the years. I've been endlessly entertained by Wu-Tang Clan for a long fucking time.

• 2:09:14Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 2:09:15Joe Rogan?

  And I hope somebody listens to this and makes that fucking movie. Make that movie.

• 2:09:20Speaker 02

  Well, we gonna make it happen.

• 2:09:21Joe Rogan?

  Do it the right way.

• 2:09:22Speaker 02

  We gonna figure it out.

• 2:09:23Joe Rogan?

  I wish I made movies. I wish I was a movie maker, because that's what I would be. I would make it that way. I'd open up with that fucking Riker scene.

• 2:09:29Speaker 02

  Listen, Joe, it's never too late for us to do what the fuck we want to do.

• 2:09:33Joe Rogan?

  Never too late.

• 2:09:34Speaker 02

  Never too late.

• 2:09:34Joe Rogan?

  Never too late. Thank you, sir.

• 2:09:36Speaker 02

  Love you.

• 2:09:37Joe Rogan?

  Thank you very much. Appreciate it, sir. Bye, bud.

• 2:10:02Speaker 04

  Make them remember you. The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Leaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.

• 2:10:09Speaker 02

  Now streaming on Paramount+.

• 2:10:12Speaker 04

  I'm Dexter Morgan. I've been killing killers for half my life. It gets to you. You're having a midlife crisis. I'm not ready for that.

• 2:10:20Speaker 02

  He's back.

• 2:10:21Speaker 04

  I'm older. I'm wiser.

• 2:10:24Speaker 02

  And sharper than ever.

• 2:10:26Speaker 04

  Things are gonna get messy. But if I can't believe in myself, I can't believe in anything.

• 2:10:33Speaker 02

  Dexter Resurrection, new season now streaming on the Paramount+ Premium Plan.