Expert Secrets to Becoming a MAXOUT Leader - with John Maxwell

“Most people don't LEAD their life, they ACCEPT their Life!” These are the powerful words from the legend himself, John Maxwell! If you already are or WANT to become a LEADER in your business, in your family, in your community, in your faith, THIS interview will give you the expert principles YOU NEED to succeed! Do you want to become a better person? Do you want to become a better leader? Do you want to unlock your potential to add value to the lives of others? If you said YES to any of these questions, get your notepad ready as we divulge the TOP business leadership strategies, tips and actionable steps to become the MAXOUT Leader that is living inside you! THIS is truly one of the only interviews I've done so far that actually had me nervous beforehand! John Maxwell has trained High-Achieving Leaders in EVERY COUNTRY on earth and has dominated the business leadership industry, selling over 30 MILLION books throughout his lifetime! It is my honor and a GREAT pleasure to bring you this interview with THE EXPERT ON BUSINESS LEADERSHIP, John Maxwell. We're going to share with you everything from how you can Increase your influence and become a highly successful Leader, to revealing the 4 areas you need to excel in to be successful. We will teach you how to become an effective communicator so that YOU can be a catalyst in your business, transform the lives of others.. and SO MUCH MORE. This insanely value-packed interview is full of so much wisdom, experience and knowledge, I can't even list them all! I guarantee this interview will leave you confident in your abilities to EXECUTE and become the MAXOUT leader that is living inside you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ed Mylett?

  I hear so many small business owners say the exact same thing. They just never have enough time in the day. Well, I measure time differently. I've compressed, condensed, heck, I've bent time. My first day is 6:00 a.m. to noon. My second day starts at noon and goes till 6:00 p.m. And my third day, 6:00 p.m. to midnight. I now get 21 days a week. Stack that up over a month, over a year, over five years, and my life's completely different than it would have been otherwise. And if you want to win as an entrepreneur, you have to compress your time, too. And you definitely can't afford to waste it. Waiting weeks on a big bank for capital? Your best bet's to work with my friends at Cardiff. They know how to compress time for entrepreneurs. They get your business approved in minutes and funded the very same day. They're America's favorite small business lender, and for good reason.

• 0:45Ed Mylett?

  Over 20 years in business, over $12 billion deployed to small business across America. Stop letting bank delays slow down your momentum. Head to cardiff.co/ed. That's cardiff.co/ed. Cardiff.co. Real growth, fast funding. Cardiff. Borrow better.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company, for me, of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  On October 2nd.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a middle without parent.

• 1:35Speaker 03

  This is The Ed Mileage Show.

• 1:42Ed Mylett?

  Welcome back to Max Out, everybody. Today is, it's a real honor for me. I have a friend, but one of my true heroes in my life, sitting to my side. It's a real honor for me, Ed. Thanks for letting me be a part of this. Thank you, John, so much. This is one of the few interviews I've even been a little bit nervous for, so. Oh, hey, listen, you're just dealing with an old man here. An old man. We're just going to talk about life and enjoy ourselves. This old man has sold 30 million books in his life, plus. Well, it's because I'm old.

• 2:10John Maxwell?

  You can't sell 30 million if you're a young man. You understand, you gotta be old to do those things.

• 2:15Ed Mylett?

  You also can't sell 30 million books unless they're great. And so, he sold 30 million books, everybody. This is somebody who's trained leaders on, is every country?

• 2:22John Maxwell?

  Every country.

• 2:23Ed Mylett?

  Every country in the world. He's won numerous awards. He is known as the expert on leadership in the business world. There's multiple publications that have named him as such. And he's got a new book coming out called Leader Shift that we're gonna talk about today as well. But, I just cannot tell you what a thrill it is for me to have you here today, John. So, thank you.

• 2:41John Maxwell?

  Thank you. And Ed, it's my honor. Thank you, Ed. What a great joy for us to talk and enjoy each other and talk about leadership and all the stuff that we love and adding value to people and have so many people join us. And our goal, obviously, is to add value to you. So, hang with us and hopefully we'll give you some good nuggets and principles that could really help you be a better person and a better leader and add value to others.

• 3:02Ed Mylett?

  No question, we're gonna do that. Do you mind, because I've followed you, people ask me all the time, obviously, in my space, you know, what books to read? And I could tell you, I have people, I recommend, first, their scriptures. Second book, I always recommend everybody, is Napoleon Hill.

• 3:14John Maxwell?

  Think and Grow Rich.

• 3:16Ed Mylett?

  Think and Grow Rich. And then I say, Anything by John Maxwell. And that's honestly my answer. If you go to any of my social media posts, it's just, that's a...

• 3:22John Maxwell?

  I'm not worthy.

• 3:24Ed Mylett?

  It's just, it's an absolute fact. It's an 80, 80, so many books.

• 3:28John Maxwell?

  I don't know, so much. But again, you can't write that many books unless you're old.

• 3:32Ed Mylett?

  Unless you're old.

• 3:32John Maxwell?

  You understand. It's all gets, it's tied in with old.

• 3:35Ed Mylett?

  But there's this thing with publishers where they don't want you to keep writing them unless they sell them.

• 3:38John Maxwell?

  Yeah, they don't want you to sell them.

• 3:39Ed Mylett?

  So, you're pretty good at that. So, but I always recommend you.

• 3:42John Maxwell?

  Thank you.

• 3:43Ed Mylett?

  And I've, your books have shaped my philosophies about leadership. They've validated things I hoped were true about being a leader. And I've just learned so much from you. So, I know everybody's gonna do that today. But I wanna know a little about you, because I don't know the whole background. So, obviously, you were a pastor of a church prior to getting into this space. Skyline Church, right?

• 3:59John Maxwell?

  Yes.

• 4:00Ed Mylett?

  In San Diego, California.

• 4:01John Maxwell?

  I was a pastor for 25 years.

• 4:02Ed Mylett?

  Everybody, the 25 years pastor. This particular church, we're talking, by the way, before the interview, three pastors in...

• 4:08John Maxwell?

  70 years.

• 4:08Ed Mylett?

  Is that not incredible? That's a great church.

• 4:11John Maxwell?

  And I followed, I was the second one, I followed the founding pastor. And loved it, and, because I love to help people.

• 4:16Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 4:17John Maxwell?

  But I was with my publisher at a meeting and... They said something that just changed my life. They said, "John, we've been looking at the people who buy your books." And two-thirds of your books are bought by the business community. And I was totally shocked, Ed. I honestly had no clue. Because I was really, as a pastor, kind of writing more to the church community and the religious community. And I said, "You're kidding me." They said, "No." They said, "You've become very popular in the business community because your leadership principles cross right over." And so the business people are going in there and they're grabbing your books to get the principles out so they can lead better. And literally, but now I'm a person of faith.

• 4:56Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 4:56John Maxwell?

  So at that moment, Ed, I really felt God just say to me, "And this is where you're going to spend the rest of your life, in the business community." And so I made, literally that day, made preparations to resign my congregation. We were in a major building program, so it took me a couple of years to do it correctly and make sure that they would have success after I left. But literally, that was the day that kind of changed me and had me, I went over to this entirely new area.

• 5:25Ed Mylett?

  That's interesting. So is it calling on your heart, right?

• 5:27John Maxwell?

  Definitely.

• 5:28Ed Mylett?

  And there are people that are listening to this, because I get messages from them all the time, that are in something similar, meaning they're in a career that maybe was their first dream. You know what I mean? Like, this was their dream. They thought this is what they wanted to do. They've gone down the road to a certain extent, but they're feeling this tug on their heart to maybe chase their passion or their mission. What would you say to those people? That had to be a difficult decision, you had all these people relying on you.

• 5:48John Maxwell?

  Oh, of course. Well, first of all, if you're very successful, whatever you leave, you're leaving something that's very successful. And what I found a long time ago, it's very easy to leave something that's bad. It's kind of like, "Get out of town." You know what I mean? "Where's the exit?" But when it comes to something successful, you know, people say, "Wow, I mean, I've got to give this up. I mean, this is really good for me. This is really working." In fact, I tell people all the time, they need to do an autopsy on success. Because the greatest detriment of tomorrow's success is today's success. Because the tendency is for me, when I'm successful, Ed, to hold on to it and say, "Okay, okay, let's not change anything. We've got the formula. We got it down. We're making some good money. We're helping some people. So let's, you know, let's kind of box it and kind of set it apart and let's keep it just as it is."

• 6:33John Maxwell?

  And of course, that's a disaster. In fact, that's one of the reasons why I wrote the book, Leadership. Because I wanted to help, I wanted to help people understand that There's no such thing as leading people the same way forever. That you have to keep learning and growing and shifting and making those shifts in your life. But for me, when I made this transition into the business world, what I discovered was, as you were talking a moment ago, you know, you feel the tug on your heart, the kind of like, wow, I started here and now I'm over here. Here's what I believe. I believe that as you follow your dream, it gets bigger.

• 7:17John Maxwell?

  And when it gets bigger, there are more things that you're learning about it that you didn't know when you started. In the beginning, the dream is just, you know, it's just very little and you can kind of see it. So you go that way, but then it begins to expand.

• 7:29Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 7:30John Maxwell?

  And for me, it's a calling. And let me just say this. I'm not trying to be over spiritual, but somebody asked me the other day what a calling was. And I like kind of my new definition for calling, okay? In fact, in my book, Leader Shifts, one of my chapters is shifting from career to calling. And how do I make that shift? But I think a calling is a purpose with a divine touch.

• 7:57Ed Mylett?

  Oh, that's wonderful. I love that.

• 7:59John Maxwell?

  Isn't that good?

• 8:00Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 8:01John Maxwell?

  That sounds terrible, but it is good.

• 8:04Ed Mylett?

  I'm stealing it.

• 8:05John Maxwell?

  But you've got this purpose, but there's a difference thing. And there's a higher touch. I was doing an interview in our John Maxwell company. We have a Simon Cast called L2L that goes out to hundreds of sites. And Tyler Perry and I were doing an interview together. And he wrote a book, and I love the title of his book, and that is Higher is Waiting.

• 8:27Ed Mylett?

  I love that.

• 8:28John Maxwell?

  And I think that a calling is you've got this purpose, but all of a sudden, higher is waiting. There's a divine touch on it until all of a sudden you say, okay, this is more than just my purpose. This is our purpose, our purpose, God's purpose and my purpose together. And you want to talk about a partnership. That's a good partnership.

• 8:48Ed Mylett?

  That's the ultimate partnership.

• 8:49John Maxwell?

  That's the ultimate.

• 8:50Ed Mylett?

  I love that. See, I'm done. That's what I needed to say. Did you grow up? I'm just curious. We're going to navigate in and out of different topics. Did you grow up in your faith? Was that something you were raised with in your house?

• 9:01John Maxwell?

  Yeah, yeah, my, my, my father was a pastor.

• 9:03Ed Mylett?

  Your dad was a pastor too.

• 9:04John Maxwell?

  So, yeah, I grew up at a beautiful home. In fact, my father's still alive. He'll be, uh, just in fact, in a couple of days, he'll be 97.

• 9:10Ed Mylett?

  That's incredible.

• 9:11John Maxwell?

  And, and, uh...

• 9:12Ed Mylett?

  That bodes well for you, by the way.

• 9:13John Maxwell?

  Yeah, it really does. It bodes really, really well for me. And, but I, I was very fortunate, you know. When it comes to parents, I won the lottery. I just, you know, many people, you know, we don't choose our parents.

• 9:23Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 9:23John Maxwell?

  But my parents, uh, my mother unconditionally loved me. And my father had this, and still has this incredible drive and entrepreneurship. And this, this kind of largeness about him that constantly expands his world. So, as his world was expanding, we're growing up in it, and my world expanded. And so, I grew up in a leadership culture.

• 9:45Ed Mylett?

  Sure.

• 9:46John Maxwell?

  I didn't even know what it was as a kid, but...

• 9:48Ed Mylett?

  It was your environment.

• 9:49John Maxwell?

  Yeah, it was just, this is what I...

• 9:51Ed Mylett?

  It's what it is.

• 9:51John Maxwell?

  It's what it is, it's exactly what it is.

• 9:53Ed Mylett?

  And as we shift a little bit, but it is interesting to me, because I have people all the time telling me that there's these things that hold them back from chasing that calling that you've described. And I think one of them is, I mean, I, maybe I'm wrong about that, but you grew up in, in the church. Your dad was a pastor. You become one. I'm sure the family was very proud of that, right?

• 10:09John Maxwell?

  Yeah.

• 10:10Ed Mylett?

  You'd achieved so much.

• 10:11John Maxwell?

  Yeah.

• 10:12Ed Mylett?

  I, I imagine that adds to the difficulty, that, that your family was so proud of something you had already been accomplishing. I, I find people all the time say that one of the things that holds them back is, well, my, my family doesn't support what I'm about to go do. Do you see that too, people?

• 10:24John Maxwell?

  All, all the time, and I'm glad you brought it up. I wrote a book, oh, I don't know, maybe eight, 10 years ago, called Put Your Dream to the Test.

• 10:31Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 10:32John Maxwell?

  And, and it's, it's just, it was, it's just a good, solid book. And in it, the, the kind of the thesis of that book was that the more valid reasons you have to accomplish a dream, the higher the odds are that you will.

• 10:44Ed Mylett?

  Oh, wow.

• 10:45John Maxwell?

  Now, that's a powerful thesis.

• 10:47Ed Mylett?

  That's powerful.

• 10:47John Maxwell?

  So, I mean, that's, there's no cotton candy here.

• 10:49Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 10:50John Maxwell?

  There's, there's no hype stuff here.

• 10:51Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 10:51John Maxwell?

  And, and so, I basically looked at what are the valid reasons to achieve a dream? And, and there were 10 of them.

• 10:58Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 10:58John Maxwell?

  And, and so, I, I formed it in, in, uh, in, in a way of questions. But, but the first one, the first question is, is your dream really your dream?

• 11:10John Maxwell?

  And that's where we started. Because can I tell you something? If your dream isn't really your dream, ain't go to work. And I tell people, hey, the first dream we have isn't our dream. It's our parents' dream. My mom and dad, when I was seven, they thought I was going to be a musician. And so I'm taking piano lessons from seven years old to about 13. I wasn't any good at piano.

• 11:31Ed Mylett?

  It wasn't your giftedness.

• 11:32John Maxwell?

  It wasn't my giftedness, but they're so proud. They go to Marcidals.

• 11:37John Maxwell?

  I'm living their dream. I'm playing the piano. I can't play the piano. I'm not very good at it. I'm not gifted, but it doesn't matter. I'm living their dream. So what I tell people all the time is, we start off our life living someone else's dream, probably our parents'. So what happens is, a lot of people as adults, they never switch.

• 11:51Ed Mylett?

  So true.

• 11:52John Maxwell?

  And so they're still living someone else's dream. And again, it's like a biblical analogy. It's King, or David before he was king, putting on King Saul's armor. You know, it's not fitting and he's staggering around there. Well, I know a lot of people, they're putting on someone else's armor and they just aren't going to achieve because it's not who they are. It's not their dream.

• 12:13Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, that's, by the way, everybody listening, just go back about one and a half minutes and listen to that again, please, because that is so absolutely golden true. So that was a difficult decision for you, I assume.

• 12:23John Maxwell?

  It was a difficult decision for me because all I ever knew was pastoring. So let's start there. It wasn't a difficult decision for me as far as knowing where I was going to go. So I think a lot of times, we have clarity on where we should go, but there's a lot of emotion that holds us back.

• 12:40Ed Mylett?

  Sure.

• 12:41John Maxwell?

  And what was holding me back was the fact that this is what I've known. This is what I studied for. This is what my degrees are. I'm a theologian. And so when I made that transition, Ed, I had three very uphill, challenging, difficult years because I had to take the principles I taught and I had to address them entirely differently.

• 13:02Ed Mylett?

  Sure.

• 13:03John Maxwell?

  I mean, hey, I can't go into the business community and say, now let's turn in our Bibles. And by the way, the worship team, if they'll come on right now, do we have the choir? I don't have any of that stuff. So now I've got to take, now here's what's beautiful. The leadership principles that I teach and write in books, they are all, they all have a biblical foundation. But I tell anybody, I said, in case that bothers you, you tell me what your leadership principles are and I'll tell you where the scripture is. Because the greatest leadership book ever written was the Bible. And in fact, I have a, one of my great, my most wonderful favorite projects was that they asked me to take the Bible and put my leadership lessons in it. And so it's the Maxwell Leadership Bible.

• 13:47Ed Mylett?

  Saw that.

• 13:48John Maxwell?

  And I'm telling you, Ed, I have probably 800 lessons in that now.

• 13:52Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 13:52John Maxwell?

  And so you just read a little scripture, here's another lesson that you can apply into your life. But the reason I can do that is because all the leadership principles I teach, they're all biblically based and have a foundation for it. So, now I'm going to a new crowd. So, the principles, I got those. But now I have to illustrate them different, and I have very little business experience. So, what I did, and this is, I think this is what will be really, hopefully this will be helpful to you. Whenever you're making a transition that's kind of out of your, out of your strength zone, or certainly brand new, like this was, I ask a lot of questions and I listened. And so I just sit down, people like you that are highly successful in business, and I say, "Okay, let me ask you some questions."

• 14:37John Maxwell?

  And I'd go, and I'd ask you questions, I'd learn from you, and I'd take a lot of notes. And I'd pull away and say, "Okay, now, this is how Ed did it, this is what Ed thinks, and, oh, I think I can apply this there." And I spent three years humbling myself and being very teachable and saying, "I just want to learn, I just want to learn." Because I knew that I had the leadership principles. But principles that are good, without application or connection, are principles that aren't going to work for anybody. So as a communicator, I know that, you know, so a lot of people, they say, "Well, I've got this great idea." Doesn't matter, if you can't communicate the great idea, it isn't going, it isn't going to go anywhere. So I knew that now I had to connect, I had to communicate. And so I'm asking a lot of questions, and it took me about three years to get my rhythm, but I got it.

• 15:22Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, obviously.

• 15:23John Maxwell?

  And today, you know, today, I love, love, love the secular business world, because it gives me a chance to, to add value to them, it gives me a chance at times to be salt and light in their lives, and, yeah, it's a really good thing.

• 15:36Ed Mylett?

  It's amazing, who thinks a guy leaving that church is going to become the most prolific, successful business leadership author of all time?

• 15:41John Maxwell?

  It makes no sense.

• 15:42Ed Mylett?

  It's pretty incredible. I think what you said is really true, though, because I think, first off, that dream starts a certain size and grows. The other thing, I talked about this yesterday, somebody, I think you'll agree with me on this. Also, the path to getting there will reveal itself as you go. I think oftentimes, people think, I have to know every single step in order to get to this ultimate vision.

• 15:58John Maxwell?

  Come on.

• 15:58Ed Mylett?

  And it doesn't work that way, right? You have to get it revealed to you.

• 16:01John Maxwell?

  It only works that way in a book.

• 16:03Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, right.

• 16:04John Maxwell?

  Because what I tell you, see, here, what's this? I am responsible, Ed, to move on what I see today. There's a whole bunch of people, they're wanting to hold and not move because they don't see three days, five days, you know, two years out, whatever. And what I'm saying is, it's kind of like the lights of a car. If I go to the parking lot at night, turn on the lights and say, oh, my gosh, I can't go anywhere, I don't see my house.

• 16:33Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 16:33John Maxwell?

  Well, no, no, no. Get in the car, start moving in the direction you're supposed to move in. And guess what? You only get about 300 feet of light.

• 16:39Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 16:40John Maxwell?

  You don't get, you don't get seven miles of light. You don't get to see your house. You've got to utilize the light you got so that you can get to where you want to go. And so many people, they're uncomfortable with that, with that light.

• 16:52Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 16:52John Maxwell?

  Because it's, well, it's not long enough. And what's around the corner. And the whole issue is, you don't, you know what? You don't know what's around the corner until you go around the corner.

• 17:00Ed Mylett?

  Oh, gosh, that's so good.

• 17:01John Maxwell?

  And so you just, so you have to be very comfortable, which I am, you have to be very comfortable with traveling, not having all the answers.

• 17:10Ed Mylett?

  So true.

• 17:10John Maxwell?

  But can I tell you something? The only way you get all the answers is to go all the way through.

• 17:14Ed Mylett?

  Absolutely.

• 17:15John Maxwell?

  You don't get all the answers on this side. And so if I've got to have it lined up and straight and right and I feel comfortable with it, then I'll never be the leader. And here, I really believe this, Ed. I believe a lot of leaders fall short because they're unwilling to take what they know now and act on it. And so therefore, they never get to know what they could know.

• 17:39Ed Mylett?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 17:40John Maxwell?

  I believe that.

• 17:41Ed Mylett?

  That is an absolute fact. That is the, that is the number one thing when I'm coaching people is their unwillingness to act now on what they know so that what they could know would be revealed to them.

• 17:50John Maxwell?

  Absolutely.

• 17:50Ed Mylett?

  That's so wonderful.

• 17:51John Maxwell?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:52Ed Mylett?

  All right, you're blowing my mind. So, I would be, people will be so upset with me if I have the expert in the world on leadership in front of me, we don't talk a little bit about that exact, specific topic on leadership.

• 18:03John Maxwell?

  All right.

• 18:04Ed Mylett?

  So.

• 18:04John Maxwell?

  I've talked on it one other time, so let's give it a shot.

• 18:06Ed Mylett?

  Is that right?

• 18:07John Maxwell?

  Let's give it a shot, see if I can.

• 18:08Ed Mylett?

  You'll be okay.

• 18:09John Maxwell?

  Let's see if I can do it the second time. You may have, you may have to encourage me a little bit here.

• 18:12Ed Mylett?

  I'll pull you along.

• 18:13John Maxwell?

  Yeah, absolutely. Lift me up a little bit, would you?

• 18:15Ed Mylett?

  I'll do what I can, brother. So, I think that first, the beginning place is, I think most people don't see themselves as a leader. Just that, in and of itself, I think most people don't see themselves that way, that it's some mystical role in life. What would you say to somebody who says, "I just don't know that I am a leader," or "could be a leader"?

• 18:34John Maxwell?

  Well, everybody's a leader, because leadership is influence. That's what it is. And that has been, that has, that definition of leadership has served me so well for so many years. It's, in fact, in my book, The Twenty-One Irrefutable Laws of Leadership, there's the law.

• 18:49Ed Mylett?

  Great book.

• 18:50John Maxwell?

  You know, the leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less. So, when somebody says they're not a leader, I say, "Well, let me ask you a question. Do you influence anybody?"

• 18:58Ed Mylett?

  Sure, sure.

• 18:58John Maxwell?

  And, and almost always, almost, I've had a couple, maybe, I'm not sure. But almost always, I'll say, "Well, yeah, I mean, you have children, okay, okay, you got your family, you know." So, yes, now, it may be a little influence, it may be eight, 10 people, it may not be, but I look at them and say, "Okay, if you influence eight or 10 people, you are a leader." See, what people think is, they've got to have some kind of a title or position to be a leader. And so, they say, "Well, I, you know, I don't have a leadership position, so I'm not a leader." Well, you and I both know, the position doesn't make you a leader anyway. It gives you a chance to practice leadership, it doesn't make you a leader. So, what I tell people is this, leadership is influence. So. How do I increase my influence? Because if I influence 10 and next month I influence 20,

• 19:42John Maxwell?

  wow, I've doubled my leadership influence. And so how do I do that? And it's a very simple answer. To increase your influence, you have to intentionally add value to people. This is where it all begins. So Ed, let's say that I want to have increased influence with you. Well, my first question isn't, boy, I hope that Ed will follow me. The first question I ask is how can I serve you? What can I do to add value to you? So I'm going to ask you, you know, how can I serve you? What can I do to help you? In fact, what's interesting before we had this interview, I mean, it was cracking me up. We were kind of trying to out-serve each other. What can I do for you? And it was a beautiful thing. Because all we were really doing is I'm trying to help you. And here's what I know. If I sincerely add value to you,

• 20:27John Maxwell?

  my influence will increase with you. That's a fact. So we don't need to make leadership complicated. Just go out and intentionally add value to people and your influence pool begins to expand. And after a while, I'm becoming quite a leader. So leadership isn't title, position. It's all about adding value and serving and making a difference in other people's lives.

• 20:52Ed Mylett?

  In order to do that, a lot of people are going to build an organization, build a team, they'll be in some sort of an environment like that. Nobody wins alone, it seems like in life.

• 21:01John Maxwell?

  That's a fact.

• 21:01Ed Mylett?

  I was listening to this story you were telling and I'd like you to share it about, you know, there's the analogy of getting people in the right seats on the bus. But you have this wonderful story about when you played basketball. About at the end of practice, your coach would do something very unique. This is absolutely illustrates this point so beautifully. You don't mind saying that?

• 21:19John Maxwell?

  No, it's a beautiful point. He would have the first team, the better players, five players, play the second team. And the only thing that he would do is he would put we who were on the first team out of position. And he always stuck me, I was a number two guard, but he always stuck me under the basket, guarding a guy named Doug Roth that was six foot eight, okay? And he'd put maybe our center out there with the point guard. Well, he's put us out of position and they said, now stay in your position and play to 20. Well, what would happen is the first team would always lose. And he'd sit us back down and say, now, did you lose because of talent? No, did you lose? No, no, you lost for one reason, you were out of position.

• 22:02John Maxwell?

  And remember this, whenever you're out of position, you're gonna lose. Well, what they did is, I mean, I'm guarding a six foot eight guy, they just throw a high pass to him. He's just dropping that belt over me the whole time. Well, and so it was a great teaching for me that no matter how gifted you are, no matter how committed you are, if you're out of position, you're not going to be successful. That's why everybody needs to find their sweet spot. You know, what do I really do well? And on that, there's a point that I really want to make, and that is, I tell people, if you want to be highly successful, you've got to get into what I call the top 5%. So you've got 100 people, you've got 100 people here in whatever chosen profession you've got, you've got to be in the top 5.

• 22:45Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 22:46John Maxwell?

  You've got to get there, and you can only get to the top 5 if you're in your sweet spot. You can't get to the top 5 working on weaknesses. You can't get to the top 5 if I'm not in the area of my giftedness. So you've got to find out what you're good at, because that'll give you, then if you're committed and if you've got good strategy and all this other, you've got a good team around you, then that'll allow you to get in that top 5. And once you're in that top 5%, you're in good shape. You're going to do very well. And I tell, it doesn't matter what your profession is, you've got to get in the top 5% and you can only get in the top 5% if you're in your position, if you're in your sweet spot, if you're in your giftedness.

• 23:21Ed Mylett?

  Is there any technique, strategy thought you have in order to identify what those sweet spots are for you?

• 23:26John Maxwell?

  Oh yeah, trial and error. I mean, you know, when I started, okay, let's go to my, I started off as a pastor. And so, and I had a counseling degree. So now I'm counseling people. Well, it takes me about six months to realize I'm not any good at that.

• 23:42John Maxwell?

  I'm not. It's not my gift. Right. I mean, they're coming in and I'm listening to them. And then I say, "Okay, it's obvious. Here's your issue. Here are three things." And I write on a piece of paper and, you know, hand it to them and say, "Now, go be healed." Do you know what I mean? Go be healed. And the next month, they come back in, I'd say, "Now, okay, what are we in here for?" "Well, I've got this problem." "Well, it's a problem I heard last month." You know what I'm saying? "Well, did you do the three things?" "No, I didn't do the three things." "Oh, you'll go back..." Well, it wore me out. I wore them out. I wasn't any good. But that's what I was trained in. But it wasn't giving me the results. And one day, I mean, it took me, really, it really took me, eh, three years. One day, I realized that when you counsel people, you work on their weaknesses. And when you equip people, you work on their strengths.

• 24:27John Maxwell?

  And the moment I went from working on weaknesses to working on strengths, I became... I was a rock star with strengths. Because you show me your strength, and I'm going to give you a game plan. And let's get going. Because I'm a natural equiper, not a natural counselor. Nothing wrong with counseling. It's just not my gift. You with me? And what did they teach me in college? They taught me how to administrate. So I'm in my, you know, I've got my little country church. I'm doing administration. Well, there's no return there. I mean, my gosh. And one day, I'm waking up and I'm saying, "Wait a minute. This isn't working. I gotta go get me some volunteers to do this administration so I can get back..." And so, it's trial and error. And sometimes, I think, we go to people like, I mean, Ed, if I'm trying to find out my strengths, and you and I know each other really well, I may come to you and say, "Okay, talk to me. You know, what do I do well?" Yes.

• 25:09John Maxwell?

  You know, sometimes, we don't understand our own strengths. And it takes somebody that really is a good friend, that knows us well, that can say, "Well, I think you're really good in this area." But you gotta find them. And the good news is, everybody has gifts. That's right. Everybody. So there's not such thing as, "Well, you know, I just have no gifts, and so, I'm left out." Everybody has them. You've just gotta go find them. But once you find them, that's where... And by the way, that's where you put all of your time in personal growth and development. Because the goal isn't just to learn a lot of things. I know a whole bunch of people, they're very knowledgeable, but they're not very successful. That's right. So what you gotta do is, you gotta say, "I'm going to stay in the area of my strengths." Yes. And so, when I...

• 25:53John Maxwell?

  At 27, when I decided I was gonna speak and maybe write some books. I asked myself a very simple question. What are the areas that people need to excel in to be successful? And I came up with four areas. Relationships, if you can't get along with people, hello. Equipping, if you can't develop a team, you may have personal success, but you're not going to have multiple, you're not going to compound success because you don't have people helping you. An attitude of overcoming adversity and difficulty, the getting back up, not quitting, that whole process, and leadership, the ability to influence people. And at 27, I said, those are the four things I will spend my life. And if you'll look at my books, almost all of them are in relationships, equipment, attitude, leadership.

• 26:38John Maxwell?

  And I found what I call, I found the sweet spot for people to success.

• 26:43Ed Mylett?

  Man.

• 26:44John Maxwell?

  And so I wrote all my books in those areas.

• 26:47Ed Mylett?

  I've read, I'm gonna tell you something, I've read of the majority of your books.

• 26:53John Maxwell?

  Thank you.

• 26:54Ed Mylett?

  And there was a window of time where I read every single one as they were coming out, and now I'm back in that cycle again with you. And for me, the last couple of minutes were really valuable because I'm always, I'm obviously acknowledged like you are as a good leader.

• 27:07John Maxwell?

  Sure.

• 27:07Ed Mylett?

  And, but in my own mind, I've wondered whether I am sometimes, because I'm not a great counselor either. And I mean that, like, when people are looking for counsel from me, but what I am, I do feel like I'm really good at identifying giftedness in people. I see giftedness, I think I'm good at equipping people. And so leaders come in different shapes, sizes, and forms. That was just really a good validation, just for me, and I think it would be for certain people listening to this, because I think also sometimes people that are really good at executing themselves, potentially maybe struggle with counseling people on their things, but they're great at, they could be great at equipping.

• 27:38John Maxwell?

  Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And what I've found is, successful people are really good at finding their gifts, getting in their gift zone, and then just really staying there and becoming successful.

• 27:50Ed Mylett?

  I think they're happier, too.

• 27:51John Maxwell?

  Oh, yes, but successful leaders, there's the difference. Successful leaders had the ability of what you just described, Ed, of finding the sweet spot for other people and getting them in that sweet spot.

• 28:01Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 28:01John Maxwell?

  And that's where the return is.

• 28:03Ed Mylett?

  That's right.

• 28:03John Maxwell?

  I've spent my life, after I discovered what my strengths were, now I'm just helping other people find their strengths. Because there's nothing more empowering to a person than to find out that they are good at something and then being equipped and taught how to do it well.

• 28:18Ed Mylett?

  Honestly, what you just described is what I enjoy doing most of my life.

• 28:21John Maxwell?

  That's why you're a leader.

• 28:22Ed Mylett?

  Well, I hope I'm working on it. Thank you. I just wanted you to know something, like the whole interview, everything we're doing today, that was valuable for me because I've struggled even myself. Like, why am I... There's an element of my ability with people that's just limited. I'm not great at counseling people, but I am good at equipping them. So it's just a distinction that I really appreciate. One other thing about teams, and then I want to talk about the new book. But one thing I want to talk about on building teams and having teams is, I have probably talked about the law of the catalyst.

• 28:48John Maxwell?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:49Ed Mylett?

  In my life in business, that you've talked about in various different books.

• 28:53John Maxwell?

  Yes.

• 28:54Ed Mylett?

  Both identifying them in organizations so that they can grow and also wanting to be identified as one, as someone coming through an organization. Could you just talk about, most people listening that are familiar with your work, but obviously there are people that aren't as well. So what is that law of the... What is a catalyst in an organization? Why is it important? Why do you want to be one?

• 29:13John Maxwell?

  Well, Ed, that's out of my book, The Seventeen Laws of Teamwork. And basically, that chapter is about the fact that good leaders have the ability to make things happen. And so when people look at me and they say, "Okay, John, I'm looking for maybe a potential leader." What's the first thing I look for? The first thing I say for them to look for is, "Look for somebody that makes things happen."

• 29:33Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 29:34John Maxwell?

  Because you know, there's a whole bunch of people, they're wondering what happened. You want to say, and they're not the one you want to recruit. So I say, "Go find..." Because here's what I discovered. If you can make things happen for yourself, you now have the credibility to make things happen for other people. If I'm not successful, there is no appeal for you to follow me. I tell people all the time, "Success is the credibility of a leader to lead." Because you think about it, no one ever got, you know, nobody ever said, "Oh, my gosh, you know, okay, I got it." "I'm financially in deep weeds, oh, my gosh, I'm going to..." "I think I'm going to go call my buddy Joe, he's been bankrupt three times."

• 30:14Ed Mylett?

  Right, right.

• 30:16John Maxwell?

  No, no, you don't follow Joe. Joe's been bankrupt three times. You gotta go find somebody that's successful with money. So true. Don't get to divorce, oh my gosh, my, well, I'm gonna call Jack. He's been divorced four times. You know, Jack, help me with my marriage. You see, people, when they need help, the first thing they think about is who is better than me that I can follow. And so, the credibility of a leader, as far as to lead, is that they're successful. I mean, if I'm successful, I say, hey, I'd wanna join my team. Well, of course, I mean, if LeBron James was in the room right now, LeBron says, we're gonna play a little basketball. And LeBron says, you know, I'll pick and then John will pick. Well, when LeBron's there, you're got your hand up saying, LeBron, pick me, cuz you're gonna win if you get LeBron. And every time I'm getting ready to pick, you're diving behind the chair. It's a fact.

• 31:00John Maxwell?

  You don't wanna be on my team, you're gonna lose on my team. And so, what I tell people all the time is that the first thing you've gotta do is you gotta be, you gotta get good yourself. If you're, why would I ever think that I should lead somebody if I'm not any good at it? So true. Okay, but once I'm good and I've found my success, now I begin to say, okay, how do I compound this? Well, I compound this by looking at Ed and saying, okay, Ed, let me help you find your sweet spot and let's get you on the same road. Because now, all of a sudden, this is how I, this is how I really build a team. And so, the law of the catalyst is all about making things happen. And that's what I look for. I mean, Jack Welch, his phrase was, you know, who's gonna get out of the pile? Yeah.

• 31:45John Maxwell?

  You know, he'd say, when he's a General Electric, you know, there's a big pile of people in this company. Well, who's gonna get out of the pile? Well, well, somebody's gonna climb out. Mark Colan's the CEO, I have six companies, and Mark Colan's the CEO of them. And the reason that he is, is because he got out of the pile. He got out of the pile. He started, he started in the stockroom. Yes. Did he really? Mark did? Yeah, absolutely. And I just took him out last week.

• 32:14John Maxwell?

  Mark's here, by the way.

• 32:15Ed Mylett?

  Mark's here, everybody.

• 32:16John Maxwell?

  He's cracking up over this.

• 32:17Ed Mylett?

  Mark's here with us.

• 32:18John Maxwell?

  But he got out of the pile.

• 32:19Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 32:20John Maxwell?

  In other words, everywhere he was, he succeeded.

• 32:23Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 32:23John Maxwell?

  And everywhere he went, he won.

• 32:25Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 32:25John Maxwell?

  And after a while, you just sit there and say, "Okay, okay. I think I'll let him run this thing."

• 32:28Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 32:29John Maxwell?

  Because he knows how to do it. And so, for all of us, I say, before you go lead somebody else, just kind of get good yourself.

• 32:38Ed Mylett?

  So right. You're a mutual hero of mine, friend of yours, that we're talking about off-camera, Art Williams.

• 32:44John Maxwell?

  Oh, my.

• 32:44Ed Mylett?

  And how important is leadership, right? And Art would used to say, and still probably does, say, "You want to show me any church, boy scout troop, football team, company? I'm going to show you something being run by a leader."

• 32:54John Maxwell?

  That's right.

• 32:54Ed Mylett?

  And in every great company, the leaders are great at identifying catalysts. I mean, and when you find them, pay them well. Keep them, because they're priceless when you have them. Somebody, I'm sure Mark's over there nodding his head that you should even pay him even better.

• 33:05John Maxwell?

  Absolutely.

• 33:06Ed Mylett?

  So, but I wanted to say something to you about your books that I think are just, they're so, everybody, they're such great reads. They're easy to read. They're memorable. He makes points and then backs them up with incredible stories and anecdotes and quotes. And so, it's the other thing about your books, they're incredibly, I would say, the information is profound, unique, and deep, yet very easy to, you equip people so well with the way you write it, that it's transferable.

• 33:35John Maxwell?

  That's right.

• 33:35Ed Mylett?

  The information is so transferable, you do that better than anybody, of anybody's work that I read. I enjoy reading every single book. The problem with your books oftentimes is when you highlight them. You would almost be better off in John's books, highlighting the parts that you don't want to go back and remember, because he's literally just covered in highlighter when you highlight his books. I'm serious.

• 33:52John Maxwell?

  Thank you, buddy.

• 33:53Ed Mylett?

  It's an absolute fact. I always get tired of highlighting, it's like every single part of every single page, it would seem to me.

• 33:58John Maxwell?

  Well, I'm a communicator. So, let's start here. You know, an educator takes something simple and makes it complicated. I mean, think of all, you know, think of all my college, all this stuff. I mean, in an educational world, if you're not confused, they're not happy.

• 34:12Ed Mylett?

  So true.

• 34:12John Maxwell?

  I mean, they're, hey, their sentences are a paragraph long. I mean, by the time I get down to the paragraph, I forgot what the first part of the sentence was. I gotta go back and read the paragraph. Instead of short sentences, you know, I'm dealing with a paragraph. So, but a communicator is the exact opposite. They take something complicated and make it simple. And so here's, when I write a book, or when I speak, doesn't matter. My first objective is to keep it so simple that when I say it, it immediately resonates with people. In fact, anytime you have to explain what you said, you didn't say it right the first time. So, my joke is, I put the cookies on the lower shelf, so everybody can have some. And so, simple as far as understanding,

• 34:57John Maxwell?

  but deep, because there's a difference. Sure. But deep when it comes to profound results that it'll make in your life. It's an absolute fact. So, I mean, one of the principles I teach is very simple. I just hold my arm up in the air, and I say, "Everything worthwhile is uphill." Everything. Everything, there's nothing, there's nothing in your life worthwhile that's not uphill. It's all uphill. Well, everybody gets it. I mean, it's all uphill. You know, and here's the problem, we get uphill hot hopes, but we have downhill habits. Okay, we're in trouble. You know, got a downhill habit, you're not going uphill. Got to change that habit. So, everything that I teach, I teach with a real passion to keep it simple,

• 35:41John Maxwell?

  but keep it very practical, and make sure that the principle is life-changing. If you could do those three things, then you really got it going. And when I wrote the book, Leadership, I've been sitting on that book

• 35:55John Maxwell?

  probably for a good 12 years. Have you, really? In fact, a lady on our team named Erin, who does a lot of content for me, she shared with me, she said, "John, you really need to get that book out." And I kind of put it on the shelf, and really wasn't too excited about getting it out, because I thought, "I don't know, this may be a little too simple." But when I started writing, I thought, "This is going to be life-changing." And now that I'm looking at the book coming out, I'm so excited, because, because here's what happens, we start leading in a way that gives us some success. And immediately, we get into this pattern. And what we don't understand is that leadership, if leadership is about anything, it's about adjusting and being flexible.

• 36:40John Maxwell?

  And if you want to be a manager, then nail it, get it straight, do it the same way every time. That's management. But when it comes to leadership, in fact, if you go back into the 1980s, gosh, that's good. there were no leadership books in bookstores. They were all management books. Right. Because you were trying to manage your company, your business. And then, things began to change so fast. People were saying, "This management stuff doesn't work because this baby isn't staying the same." I turned it around and it moved on me. Man. And so, I've got to get in front of it. And so, leadership is all about being in front. Well, if you're in front, one of the first things you know is if you're in front, you don't know everything. Yes. So, the issue is not knowing everything. The issue is when you know something, adjusting as quickly as you possibly can.

• 37:26John Maxwell?

  Because, because if we don't adjust quickly, we miss it. Yes. Because it's a timing thing. Especially today. Oh, well, I was getting ready to speak for a company recently and their theme was fast-forward. And we were doing a pre-call and they asked me, they said, "What's fast-forward mean to you?" I said, "Well, fast means faster." As you look in the future, if anybody thinks that the future is going to be a little bit slower, or I love these people, say, "Well, I'm just, I'm just waiting for things to slow down."

• 37:55John Maxwell?

  You know what? I would suggest dying. That's what I, you know, that's probably about the only way it's going to slow down for you. So, fast is faster, but let me tell you something. Forward is shorter. When I started off as a leader, we had 10-year long-range plans. And five-year was a mid-range. A short-range plan when I started off, now I'm talking about in the dark ages now, was a two-year plan. Yeah. Well, a two-year plan now, that's a ridiculous long-range. I mean, that's, that's a, that kind of makes you suck air. You say, "I think that's a little bit long." Yes. So, what I know is fast is faster and forward is shorter. There you go. So, let me tell you something. The only people that are going to win are people that can make leaderships and adjust quickly. And so, I wrote the book.

• 38:39John Maxwell?

  I talk about 11... Leadership that I've made in my lifetime. And people ask me all the time, they say, John, how have you stayed? I'm 71. How have you stayed on top of your game? And I say, it's very simple. It's not the same game.

• 38:55John Maxwell?

  Okay, baseball is called baseball. But it's not the same game.

• 38:59Ed Mylett?

  So true.

• 39:00John Maxwell?

  You don't go to the baseball game the second day and say, oh, my gosh, now wait a minute. That leadoff hitter got a single yesterday. Oh, he struck out. Oh, my Lord. See, it maybe had the same title.

• 39:09Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 39:10John Maxwell?

  But it isn't the same game.

• 39:11Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 39:12John Maxwell?

  And you don't lead today's game on yesterday's results.

• 39:17Ed Mylett?

  No kidding.

• 39:17John Maxwell?

  Babe Ruth said one day, he said, yesterday's home run won't win today's game. And I'll tell you what, yesterday's thinking won't win today's game either. So I talked about leaderships that you need to make in your life to keep you on the edge and to keep you adjustable and flexible so that you can really, so that you can really lead your people well. Because here's what I know. Here's what I know.

• 39:41John Maxwell?

  People don't like change.

• 39:42Ed Mylett?

  You're right.

• 39:43John Maxwell?

  So when the leader is resistant to change, he's going to get into this leadership gravity pool, or she is, that's going to go down every time. Because I can tell you, you're not going to have the people behind you saying, come on, let's make some more changes. Let's, let's, let's make some more adjustments. No, no, they're, remember, they're wanting to hold on to what they have. And your job as a leader is to say, there's something better if you'll just, if you'll just let this go, there's something better for you here tomorrow. And that's, you know, and that's what the good, the good leaders do.

• 40:12Ed Mylett?

  You, see, I think the timing for this book, based on what you described, is so requisite. I was in, I'm involved in, you know, obviously like you are, multiple different companies. I was in a meeting last week and one of the folks in that company that was leading it, whom I like a great deal, but five different times in the meeting, that person said in the meeting, well, the way we've always done it is. And I thought, this is the beginning of the death of that organization. The way we've always done it is, I, the way we've always done it is, isn't necessarily what we should be doing now. It's interesting, you take a look at a guy like Belichick. Coach Belichick in the NFL, right?

• 40:41John Maxwell?

  Great example.

• 40:41Ed Mylett?

  Great guy. And people say, well, why have the coaches that have left him maybe not had the success that he's had? And I think one of the reasons that happens, I work with a lot of the guys in, in, in that league, I think often Sometimes when a coach leaves, someone like that, they're constantly saying, well, what Coach Belichick always did is, meanwhile, Coach Belichick's evolving all the time, and you've got this snapshot of the year or two you were with him. And so I think that's absolutely true in almost every business, that leaders take snapshots of both their own company, or maybe even the person they worked with in the past that was a great leader.

• 41:11John Maxwell?

  Yeah, Malcolm Gladwell makes a great statement on that. And he's, and he basically, his statement is, that if you are comfortable today with what you were comfortable with yesterday, you're already in trouble. And I believe, I believe that to be-

• 41:25Ed Mylett?

  Do you think that's part of you, John? I mean, I was thinking about you driving over here. We have several mutual friends. And, I mean, right when I met you, you were the most energized, intense, confident, kind person that I recall ever meeting, right? I'm sure I've met, I mean, you are 71 years old, yet it seems like you're on your A-game right now.

• 41:43John Maxwell?

  A-plus game.

• 41:44Ed Mylett?

  A-plus. And I know even how difficult it was even for us to get a conversation today. And so you embody these things. One of the things about, that I think makes a leader great too, is they're congruent. So, meaning the things you're writing about are the things you're doing.

• 41:57John Maxwell?

  Oh, that's beautiful.

• 41:58Ed Mylett?

  And you're just, so I want to make sure everyone has a chance to get this book. So, the book's out in a couple of weeks, everybody. It comes out February 5th, but they can preorder it right now on-

• 42:07John Maxwell?

  Amazon.com.

• 42:08Ed Mylett?

  On Amazon.com.

• 42:09John Maxwell?

  Absolutely.

• 42:09Ed Mylett?

  So, you're gonna want to make sure that you do that, everybody, now. You want to be the first people to get this book. I obviously cannot wait for this book. I want the different organizations I'm involved with to read this as well. I'm telling you, listen, everyone, not that John needs this, my full, complete, entire endorsement of the things this man teaches and writes, you have for me. And so, please go get this, it's gonna serve you. And when we say leader, by the way, a lot of you ladies that are listening to this that are entrepreneurs, you know, your number one leadership job is dad or mom. And so, when we're talking about the law of the catalyst, ask yourself, who's the catalyst in your family? Who's the one changing your family tree? Who's the one leading your family? Who's the one setting the culture in your family? As a parent, how great are you at identifying giftedness in your children? And bringing that out of them? All of these principles apply, not just in the business space, or just in the faith space.

• 42:54Ed Mylett?

  Can we talk about a couple of chapters in the book, though? Do you mind just covering a couple of things?

• 42:56John Maxwell?

  Sure, you're the boss.

• 42:57Ed Mylett?

  Well, we're limited on time, but I want to max you out here a little bit, so- Because I watched this. One of the chapters in the book, and we're not gonna give the entire book away, just a couple of thoughts on a couple of the chapters. Pleasing people to challenging people, the relational shift. So many leaders are afraid to or unwilling to challenge people, I think, oftentimes. Perhaps that's because they haven't built the relationship with them that they need to. I'm not sure why that is, but can you just speak to, what do you mean by pleasing people to challenging people?

• 43:26John Maxwell?

  Well, that was, Ed, that was one of my most difficult shifts. Because I grew up in a very wonderful home, relationally strong. And so I kinda had this idealistic idea about people, that they all got along. And so when I started pastoring. It did take long, it's kinda like, whoa, they're not getting along, and they're supposed to be people of faith. And so here I am, in an environment which basically grew up with very little contention and strife. And so I'm having it, and so my first thought is, well, I'm not leading well, my gosh. If I was leading better, they would all be happy. And so my goal for the first, really for about the first three years, was to make everybody happy.

• 44:10John Maxwell?

  So I'd go around, and if you weren't happy, I'd run over and say, okay, okay, what do I need to make you happy? And of course, you've got a long list, so I'm over there, I'm trying to fulfill that list, I'm going over there, and I want to make you happy. And, you know, after a period of time, I began to realize, this is not leadership. You know, my goal isn't to make people happy, I'm not a clown, I'm a leader. My goal is to help people. And all of a sudden, I realized, when you help people, they're not always happy. And so my responsibility is to help you, not satisfy you. And so, when I was writing the 21 Year Feudal Laws of Leadership, I was signing books, and the 21 Laws.

• 44:51John Maxwell?

  And a guy brought the book up to be signed, and so I'm signing, and he said, I disagree with one of your laws. And I said, well, that's okay, and I signed it and handed it back to him, and he just stood there. Looked at him, he said, I don't think you hear me, he said, I disagree with one of your laws. And I said, okay, well, that's okay. And then I realized that it wasn't okay with him, that it was okay with me.

• 45:12Ed Mylett?

  Okay with you, right?

• 45:13John Maxwell?

  That he disagrees with one of his laws. And that's when I looked at him and said, I didn't write the book to make you happy, I wrote the book to help you. It's like a person says, I disagree with the law of gravity, it's okay. Go to a four-story building, jump off, you'll live under the law. The laws don't ask you if you like them, the laws say, these are the laws, you gotta learn them. And so, it was a tough adjustment for me to go from trying to make everybody happy to understanding that there's some loneliness in leadership in there at times. You make decisions that people are not gonna be pleased with, but that's leadership, and that's what we're supposed to do.

• 45:48Ed Mylett?

  I can't wait for people to read that chapter, because I do think that that is a

• 45:51John Maxwell?

  Oh, it's a huge stumbling block for a lot of people.

• 45:54Ed Mylett?

  Again, everybody, this is Leader Shifts, it's out February 5th, you need to get your hands on this. And I don't wanna make sure that we give away the book. So I just wanna ask you one more question about one thing in the book, just because I need to know at least 5% of the chapter from you, okay?

• 46:07Ed Mylett?

  I wanna know what you meant by train leaders to transformational leaders. Just what that means, and then they can obviously read the book to get all the details. But what's a train leader compared to a transformational leader?

• 46:15John Maxwell?

  Well, now you're in the core of my calling. Because I have an organization, a nonprofit organization called Equip. And so, it's designed to train leaders. And so, we, especially in the faith community, made a commitment to, we started off with what we call a million leader mandate. Let's see if we can train a million leaders in the world. We accomplished that, and again, as you go, the vision expands. And I said, now that we've trained a million leaders, I wonder if we could train a leader in every country of the world? And so, we focused on, and in 19 years from starting this organization, in the 19th year, we had trained 5 million leaders in every country of the world. We are the largest leadership training organization in the world.

• 47:01John Maxwell?

  And it was so fulfilling and so satisfying. And so the board, we got together, I mean, we're, you know, obviously, we're having celebrations and parties and we had, you hit this, and so we're in a board meeting and it was kinda like, wow, look what we did, look what we did. And all of a sudden, there was a restlessness within me. And, and, and I said, you know what, I think there's a level higher than what we've done. And they're all, look at us, what do you mean, we trained all these leaders. And, and, and we went into, I bet about a three-hour discussion that day with my board. Because a lot of them said, boy, let's just, let's end it, let's, we, we just scored, we just won the Super Bowl, and here you're kinda wanting to dive back in. And, and what I told them was, I said, well, the good news is we've trained leaders. So leaders know what to do, but just because you know how to lead doesn't mean you're changing

• 47:46John Maxwell?

  lives. And I said, I think there's a higher level of leadership than trained leaders, and that's transformed leaders. And, and so we've got to figure this out. And, and honestly, even my key people, they looked at me and said, boy, I don't think we understand this transformation, what's transformation? And what I told them was, I can't explain it, but when you see it, you'll know it.

• 48:07Ed Mylett?

  Oh my goodness.

• 48:08John Maxwell?

  And so we started going in and, and developing the identity, the characteristics of a transformational leader. And, and, and then we started understanding that if you're gonna trans, if people are gonna be transformed, it's gotta be in small groups like round tables, not in massive audiences. And we had trained in auditoriums and massive audiences, and people are taking good notes and they, they're learning it. But transformation happens when you and I are talking and you're encouraging me and challenging me and I'm asking questions and we're having that give and take. So we, we said, let's go see if we can transform countries. And we started with Guatemala and we do, we, we, there's just three things to think about, we start top-down, we don't even go into a country unless the president asks us.

• 48:53John Maxwell?

  So we come in by the invitation of the president, we have 22 presidents of countries who have now asked us to come in and do transformation. So I mean, the line's getting long because things are, so top-down, because influence filters down, it doesn't filter out. So, so I mean, we go, you know, with top government, top business, top education. Top religion, top media, top arts. We go, and we get permission. So it's top-down, but then transformation also. It goes, it goes small round table to big. Mass movements don't begin with a mass. They begin with a few people. So it goes, you know, round table, small, big. And then we teach values. Because what changes people's lives are values. Which is inside-out. It's inside-out, small, big, top-down.

• 49:38John Maxwell?

  And we've got this strategy, Ed. And we've trained a half a million people in Guatemala now.

• 49:43Ed Mylett?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 49:43John Maxwell?

  And we're going for the tipping point. 10% of a nation, we're wanting to be in round tables. Because, you know, that's the tipping point. Malcolm Gladwell talks about. And we're in Paraguay now, and we're, and we are in Costa Rica. And we, you know, I just came back from Kenya. I went to Saudi Arabia this year. By the invitations of the leaders, you know, of the country. And so it's, so it's so exciting. And so, in leaderships, I talk about transformation. And it's just one chapter, but it's, it was a shift I made. And it was a great shift. And, but probably, every book I write from now on, I'll have something transformation. Because I'm, we're seeing such life change. And I'm living and watching this. That it's kind of like it's contagious. And I'm wanting to share it with others.

• 50:26John Maxwell?

  Because I think that, once a leader understands transformation, they go to a whole new level of their leadership. And now, now, people aren't just following you because you're going to help them be successful. They're following you because their life is being changed.

• 50:40Ed Mylett?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 50:41John Maxwell?

  And that's a whole different game.

• 50:43Ed Mylett?

  You, everybody, I know you're hearing this, and we've taken so much of your time. But this man's, you're just a treasure. I mean, there's just, there's one, there's one of him, everybody. There's nobody like this. There's no one that has this depth of understanding, this depth of faith, this depth of character. The ability to communicate is... When we were dropping over, I told him, I said, just the minute he opens his mouth, it's just beautiful. When you hear the deep voice and his cadence. And it's, I just feel like, I love being in your presence because I feel like I'm with somebody who's chasing the calling of their life, that's fulfilling their purpose. And I just think you're a treasure. And I, I want people to get leadership. Obviously in Amazon February 5th, but I also want them experiencing you beyond that.

• 51:25Ed Mylett?

  And so other places they can find you are social media. Got a couple million people. Is it John Maxwell on all of the social media platforms? We'll put it up on the screen here.

• 51:33John Maxwell?

  It's John Maxwell dot com. They can go to that and you know, I have a coaching company. Oh my gosh. We started a coaching company seven years ago. We've got 20, over 20,000 coaches in 152 countries now.

• 51:45Ed Mylett?

  And they can find that through John Maxwell.

• 51:46John Maxwell?

  Or John Maxwell team dot com. Yeah.

• 51:48Ed Mylett?

  Okay, John Maxwell team and also Instagram, Twitter, all of the platforms. Follow John guys. You want to be getting, wouldn't you love to be hearing this sort of stuff on a very regular basis? And so not only should you be involved with his books, but you should be listening. Couple more questions before we go, personal ones though, if that's okay with you. One of the things I've admired about you all of my life, obviously, is that I'm proud when a man of faith is willing to be bold about it, but also just watching successful men of faith. But I'm gonna ask you, if you don't mind answering.

• 52:15John Maxwell?

  No.

• 52:16Ed Mylett?

  If you, I'm curious personally, and there are people listening to this that are at this, this place in their life too. Have you ever struggled with your faith? Have you ever doubted your faith?

• 52:27John Maxwell?

  You know, I've struggled with my relationship with God. I've never struggled with my faith.

• 52:35Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 52:36John Maxwell?

  And, and that's not because I'm a highly wonderful spiritual person. I am an automatic faith trusting person. I, I don't have a lot of cynicism, skepticism in my life that kind of makes me kind of look, in fact, probably my strength is my weakness. I'm very trusting with people. And, and so the good news is everybody feels very embraced. The bad news is that I can certainly have had times when that wasn't, that wasn't the best thing. So with my faith, as far as my faith in God, that's never, my, my relationship I have. And, and it's, and it's always over sinners, always around one thing. See, I believe that the key to success for a person of faith is obedience.

• 53:21John Maxwell?

  So if somebody said, John, how can I be, have a successful walk with God? I would just say obedience. Because there's, that's how we get into the rhythm of a relationship is obedience. And there have been times I've been disobedient. And what I tell people is when you're in the rhythm of a relationship with God in obedience, it's very natural. I don't get up and say, oh, I'm really obedient today. And oh, my gosh, you know, woo. I'm just in that rhythm. But what I tell people all the time is if you're in a rhythm of obedience, and then you do something wrong,

• 53:55John Maxwell?

  it just stands up, it waves a flag. It's like, you may not know you're always obedient, but you will know when you're disobedient. And so, and there have been times when I put myself over God, and put my own desires over God, or my own will, or my own way over God. And, you know, I feel kind of comfortable with that because David did that, you know. And what did God say about David? He's a man after my own heart. And why did he say that? He said that not because David was a perfect man, but it was because every time God began to deal with him, David's great desire was to get back over to that rhythm of obedience again with God. I mean, he didn't, he didn't resist him. He strayed, but he came back, so, oh, my gosh, I gotta get back over in that rhythm.

• 54:39John Maxwell?

  And I think what God looks for in us is not perfection, but I think he does look for us to have a heart to serve him and to love him. And to seek him. Does that make sense?

• 54:51Ed Mylett?

  It does. That's a wonderful answer. And I appreciate you being willing to answer it too, because I think sometimes people observe somebody like you, maybe me once in a while, and they think that we never have any struggle like that, or that we live perfectly all the time. And I think that vulnerability helps so many people.

• 55:04John Maxwell?

  I get very uncomfortable with the leadership pedestal.

• 55:07Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 55:08John Maxwell?

  Very, very uncomfortable. Because people want to put me there all the time. Because, you know, they look up and they kind of admire what you've done. And I had a great mentor, a great mentor that helped me many, many years ago, that really centered me. And here's what he said, his name was Fred Smith. And he said, John, in fact, I will never forget, he-

• 55:26Ed Mylett?

  Fred Smith, Fred Smith?

• 55:27John Maxwell?

  No, no, not the, not the Express guy, another Fred Smith, out of Dallas, who is also a very successful corporate CEO. But, but he-

• 55:37John Maxwell?

  He'd been, you know, I'm just a kid. I've got the 10th largest church in America and I'm what 31 or 32. And he took me out to a long lunch on Sunday after church. And he said, John, great service, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. And he said, I really need to teach you something about giftedness. And what he told me, Ed, was, he said, your gifts are greater than you. And he said, you have these amazing gifts and so people, they'll, they're attracted to what you do. And they'll, they'll say, John, you're amazing. He said, when people tell you you're amazing, always understand that they're confused. You're not amazing at all. He says, you're human, you're a sinner, you're, you're prone to mess up and, and, and make screw ups. He said, there's nothing amazing about you, John.

• 56:21John Maxwell?

  He said, what they really are seeing is your giftedness. And so, he said, John, when people want to tell you how wonderful you are, he said, you're not wonderful. You're just a human sinner like everyone else. There's nothing that sets you apart from anyone else, except your giftedness. So he said, when they're on their feet and giving you a standing ovation, smile, wave to them. But understand, they're applauding your gifts, they're not applauding. And I'm telling you, Ed, that day I walked out of the Brigantine Restaurant in San Diego, California. And I said, I got that. I got that. And, and, and, and so what, what does that do?

• 57:01John Maxwell?

  So when all this good stuff happens to me, it goes right back to God because I didn't give myself the gift. He gave it to me. He is the total source of everything that's good about me. And I'm the total source of everything that's screwed up about me.

• 57:16Ed Mylett?

  That's so beautiful.

• 57:18John Maxwell?

  And I don't get those two confused at all. You follow what I'm saying? So when I'm in a mess up, I just look at myself because I've got the blame. But when, when the good stuff happens to me, it's, it's Him. And that centered me.

• 57:29Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 57:30John Maxwell?

  And I, I can tell you today that I'm very appreciative when people, you know, John, and you're. But when they say all those things, I'm walking off the stage, I'm saying to me, saying to God. The only reason they're standing is because you gave me these gifts. And by the way, he can take them from me anytime he wants to either. And so therefore, I want to make sure that I always am grateful for that gift. Because again, a gift could be given, but a gift could be taken away.

• 57:56Ed Mylett?

  That's so beautiful. One more question.

• 57:59John Maxwell?

  Yes, sir.

• 57:59Ed Mylett?

  Last one. Can I just tell you something, though?

• 58:01John Maxwell?

  Yeah.

• 58:02Ed Mylett?

  It's so good to have a hero of mine and somebody that's been a role model of mine and exceed my expectations as a man. And so, in this short time we've had, it just feels really good for me. You know, I hope, I hope, I hope that someday people feel that way, the way I feel about you.

• 58:17John Maxwell?

  That's very kind.

• 58:19Ed Mylett?

  I've watched, we've spoken on the same, obviously, agendas a couple of different times.

• 58:22John Maxwell?

  Sure.

• 58:22Ed Mylett?

  I've read your stuff, but I've looked up to you, and you exceed my expectations, so.

• 58:25John Maxwell?

  Well, this is, this is the beginning of a, of a, of a long, beautiful relationship.

• 58:30Ed Mylett?

  I feel that way.

• 58:31John Maxwell?

  Yeah, no, no, this is, this is kinda like the catalyst for us to now.

• 58:36Ed Mylett?

  Wonderful.

• 58:36John Maxwell?

  Spend some time together.

• 58:37Ed Mylett?

  Very grateful.

• 58:38John Maxwell?

  I greatly admire you.

• 58:39Ed Mylett?

  Thank you.

• 58:40John Maxwell?

  And grateful, very grateful for you let me be with you today.

• 58:43Ed Mylett?

  Oh, our audience is most grateful, and so am I, so thank you. Last question. Um, I wanna ask it on behalf, because we both started out, let's, let's help people today. And obviously, you've done that in many, many folds over. But there's somebody, there's people watching this, they say, "Look, I'd like to start to transform my life."

• 59:00John Maxwell?

  Yeah.

• 59:00Ed Mylett?

  You know, I mean, there's transformational leaders, but I need to transform my life. I wanna take a step towards being happier, being more successful. And they had a minute with John Maxwell. They ran into you in a coffee shop, they said, "Mr. Maxwell, I've got a question for you. What would your advice be to me about just transforming my life? What would be the step you would take? The thought I should have, the action maybe I should take?" Your answer to them would be what?

• 59:22John Maxwell?

  Yeah, well, and in fact, I'm gonna talk to him right now. Being a person of faith, the first thing I would share with you is a relationship with God, okay? And if you don't have a relationship with God, you're my friend, love you as much as someone that does. So please understand that, I'm not trying to convert you. It's just that when you find something that really is beautiful, you wanna share it with everybody. And, and I remember when I became a person of faith, the verse that grabbed me the most is the verse that says, "If a person is in Christ, he becomes a new creation." And I did, I became a new person, again, because of him. Now, let's skip that, okay? If you're not a person of faith, just act like you never heard it, okay? Let's go to the real thing. I would sit down at the table with you, and I'd say, "If you really wanna be transformed,

• 1:00:06John Maxwell?

  you have to live an intentional life." This is so simple, I don't want you to miss it. Most people don't lead their life, they accept their life. And when you accept your life, you are living on things that are not worthy of your time and effort and energy. And you heard me say in a moment, "Everything worthwhile is uphill." The reason I want you to understand that is, to go uphill, you have to be intentional. Nobody ever went uphill by accident. You've never read a book on accidental achievements. You have to be intentional with what you do and who you are. And so I would just say to you, find your strengths, become very intentional, and commit your life every day to... It's all uphill. It's all uphill.

• 1:00:50John Maxwell?

  And listen, Ed's very successful. He's got great businesses, he's made a lot of money. Can I tell you something? It's still uphill for him. See, the great mistake we make is, we think, "I'm going to go out and make enough money, and there's a day when I can relax and I can rest, and everything's going to be easy." Can I tell you something? The day that you have that day, you know, one of your children gets in an accident. Problems will never, ever leave you. Issues, obstacles, difficulties, they're always going to surround you. So you never get to that place where you've got it made. You're not supposed to got it made. You're supposed to add value to people, and it's all uphill. Oh my gosh. So the moment I understand that, then what happens is I commit myself to it, and then it becomes a beautiful uphill climbing life.

• 1:01:34John Maxwell?

  Because one thing is beautiful about going uphill is the scenery is really good. So you've got to be intentional with it. So that's what I would say to them. Be intentional, start today. And here's the difference. Good intentions are overrated. Gosh, I know so many people, "I'm going to do that." "Yes, I think that's a good idea. I think I'm going to do that." Good intentions are the most... It's the most overrated phrase in the world. You've got to go from good intentions to good actions. Nothing happens until you've got good actions, and you won't have good actions until you're intentional with your life. My name's John, and I'm your friend.

• 1:02:15Ed Mylett?

  And I'm yours. I'm so grateful you're my friend and now you've made millions more friends that are so grateful for that connection with you. So, thank you so much, brother. I mean, honestly. It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. And everybody, I know that you're grateful too. Please do a few things. I'm gonna ask you. Number one, I'd like you to go get John's book, because it's gonna help you. He doesn't need to sell another book out of the 30 million he's sold. He wants to serve you and help you. So, please go get Leader Shifts. Also, follow John on social media. You already follow me, or you wouldn't be watching this. But I want to ask you to please refer the podcast to different people. Subscribe, leave a review, help it move up the rankings. And just remember, every day on Instagram, I run the Max Out 2-Minute Drill. And what that means is, when I make a post on my main feed, everybody makes a comment within the first 2 minutes. You go

• 1:02:58Ed Mylett?

  into a daily drawing. We pick a winner every day. Some of them win my book, they could win John's book, Coaching Calls with me, Max Out gear, you name it. It's just to keep you engaged in the Max Out universe and in the community. So, make sure you're making comments on my posts and staying engaged and connected with me. John, thank you so much for today. My pleasure. Exceeded my expectations. God bless you, everybody, and Max out.