Pod Insights Crime Weekly S3 Ep363: Anna Kepner’s Final Hours | Timeline Of A Crime at Sea About this episode 18-year-old Anna Kepner was found dead aboard a cruise ship during a family vacation, and a recent autopsy ruled her death a homicide. Investigators discovered her body concealed under a bed, and authorities have identified her 16-year-old stepbrother as a suspect in the case. Try our coffee! - www. CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > ｿ https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> ｿ https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPodADS:1. https://www. BubsNaturals.com - Live Better Longer! Use code CRIMEWEEKLY for 20% OFF at BUBS Naturals! Let them know we sent you!2. https://www. WildGrain.com/CrimeWeekly - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY for $30 off your first box and FREE croissants!
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:14 Derrick Levasseur? Hey everyone, welcome back to Crime Weekly News. I'm Derrick Levasseur.
0:17 Stephanie Harlowe? And I'm Stephanie Harlow.
0:19 Derrick Levasseur? Happy holidays. Everyone's getting ready for Christmas. If you celebrate, we are here as well at Crime Weekly. We're going to be updating some of our merch over on our web store. We did a Black Friday deal. We're going to have some new merch coming out as well. Also Criminal Coffee, you guys have asked about it. We have some new tumblers, some new mugs, and most importantly, Peppermint Bark, our most, I guess I would say our favorite flavor from a customer standpoint, you guys ask about it more than any other flavor, is now back in stock for a limited time. But real quick, here's the tumbler, if you're watching on YouTube, clean, to the point, functional, got a little rubber grip on the bottom, top is very secure. And then,
1:00 Derrick Levasseur? Stephanie's personal favorite, she's the one who picked out this design, the Criminal Coffee mug. Looks like it has snowflakes on it. It's in red. Again-
1:09 Stephanie Harlowe? It's a beautiful red. I love it.
1:10 Derrick Levasseur? We got limited supplies on both of these. We apologize on the Peppermint Bark. With everything in the world right now, it's tougher to get materials, supplies, flavors, all that stuff. So we were able to get it. It's now here. It's been roasted. It's ready for you. Head on over to CriminalCoffeeCo.com for the coffee, CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com for the Crime Weekly merch. Okay, so that's the fun stuff. Now we have to get into the real reason we're here, which is the not so fun stuff. But you have to talk about it. That's, that's what's important to keep these stories alive, to make sure we're educated and informed for any future dealings that we may have personally, or someone you know, maybe experiencing something like this. Hopefully not. So, tonight, we're going to be looking at what's unfolding in
1:54 Derrick Levasseur? real time, and has left investigators and the public with far more questions than answers. Earlier this month, 18-year-old Anna Kepner was found dead aboard the Carnival Horizon cruise ship, and within days of her death, it was ruled a homicide. What Has been a series of revelations about surveillance footage, the timeline insider cabin, and the complicated and at times chaotic family dynamics surrounding Anna's life. There is still a very active federal investigation underway, and we want to be clear that this is a developing story. But the details that have come out already painted disturbing picture of what may have happened on the night Anna died. Stephanie is going to walk us through who Anna was and what we know so far about the final hours on that ship.
2:39 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, so I'm very familiar with this case. I covered it on my channel recently. And in the comments section of that video, there was a lot of people who also watched Crime Weekly or listened to Crime Weekly, and they were like, we'd love you to talk about this with Derek because we want to get his perspective on it. So that is what we're doing. I guess I'll start off really quick, just explaining who Anna Kepner was. She's an 18 year old girl from Florida. She was about to graduate high school this coming spring. She had plans on joining the military, eventually maybe becoming a K-9 police officer. She also wanted to cheerlead for the Georgia Bulldogs. She and her family, I guess, are huge fans of that team. And she just had, you know, a lot going for her. Now, as far
3:21 Stephanie Harlowe? as family dynamics go, Anna Kepner seemed to come from a broken family. Her biological parents, Heather Wright and Christopher Kepner divorced when she was very young. And then Christopher Kepner remarried to another woman, Tabitha, who he was married to for quite a long time. Christopher and Tabitha had two more children together, a boy and a girl, making them Anna's half siblings. And then Christopher and Tabitha divorced, and within a year, he was remarried to another woman, Chantel Hudson. And Chantel Hudson came with her own three children from a previous marriage to a man named Thomas Hudson. Her three children
4:01 Stephanie Harlowe? consist of an older child who is 18 years old, so he's not considered a minor child, and then a 16 year old son and a younger daughter. So now Anna Kepner has, from her father's several marriages, two half siblings and three step siblings.
4:20 Stephanie Harlowe? Okay, so Anna Kepner, in November of this year, at the beginning of November, she goes on a cruise with her father, his new wife Chantel, Chantel's two youngest kids, the 16-year-old boy and the younger girl, I think she's nine. It also seemed that Chantel's half siblings, from her father's marriage to Tabitha, his second marriage, they were also there, a 14-year-old boy and another young girl, and then Christopher Kepner's parents. So Anna Kepner's grandparents on her father's side, Barbara and Jeffrey Kepner, they all went on a cruise through the Caribbean, on the Carnival Horizon, and later Anna's grandparents, Barbara and Jeffrey, would describe this as a big blended family cruise.
5:03 Stephanie Harlowe? They were trying to start a new tradition of doing these things together. And the timeline, I'm not going to get into too much of the background of Anna Kepner's family because it would just take too long. We don't have that kind of time right now. But what you have to understand is, there's a lot of weird dynamics. Her father's been married a bunch of times. There's a bunch of kids around her who are, you know, on one hand, half-related to her, and some not related to her by blood at all. So it looks like they got on the boat, the Carnival Horizon, on November 2nd. They all get on the boat, everything's fine for several days. But then November 6th happens, and this is the last day that Anna is seen alive. So they all have dinner together, and during dinner, I guess Anna wasn't feeling well. She told her grandparents that her braces were bothering her.
5:47 Stephanie Harlowe? She was gonna go back to the cabin. Now here's something you need to know about the cabin that Anna was staying in. Anna was staying in this cabin with her 14-year-old half-brother, who she's known for a while, his whole life, because this came from her father's second marriage, and then her 16-year-old stepbrother, who she's known for about a year, maybe less, depending on how quickly Christopher and his new wife Chantel introduced their kids to each other. So I want to ask you, because a lot of people have talked about this, I talked about this in my video, we both have young children. I found it very odd that when Christopher Kepner married his third wife Chantel, he seemed to move her and her kids, at least her minor children, into his house with him.
6:30 Stephanie Harlowe? And Anna and even sometimes her half siblings, who I think he shares custody of them with his second wife Tabitha. And then Anna started sleeping in the living room. So basically her bedroom was moved to like the living room or dining room area. And so he brings these kids, the 16 year old boy and this younger girl to live with himself and his family pretty early on. And now they're on a cruise together and he has Anna sharing a cabin with her 14 year old half brother and her 16 year old stepbrother. With her being 18, the stepbrother being 16 and not related to her by blood and not really knowing her for too long. Do you find that to be problematic as a father, as a parent?
7:09 Derrick Levasseur? I think it to be problematic and whatever viewpoint you're coming from, I think we have to be realistic here, right? You have an 18 year old girl, correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, 18 year old girl, 16 year old boy, 14 year old boy, all in this one cabin. You'd like to think that they could all be in that cabin and there would be no issues, but you're you're playing with fire. I'm sorry to say you're playing with fire, even if it doesn't go to this extreme. There's just a lot of things that can happen in there that can be a problem, especially when you're talking about step siblings, not children that have been around each other their entire lives. So for me personally, when you have
7:49 Derrick Levasseur? a girl or young woman, I would say over the age of, I don't know, you're a woman, maybe 13?
7:57 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, I would say 10.
7:58 Derrick Levasseur? Okay, 10, I'm good with that. I was trying to be more lenient here, but I agree 10. Boys and girls at that point should be separated for the obvious reasons.
8:08 Stephanie Harlowe? And I mean, even legally, I think in some states, they say like, you need a certain like amount of square footage for each child and they don't really, they don't, they don't really, they kind of frown upon like, children of the opposite sex sharing close quarters together for obvious reasons.
8:25 Derrick Levasseur? Now, people who have an interesting dynamic at home, who want to come for us in the comments, who may have, you know, boys and girls that have to share a room because of whatever circumstance you're in, I totally get it, but there On a cruise. So obviously they're doing okay financially to be on that cruise. And maybe there's circumstances in your life that dictate it, but we're talking in generality. And maybe your kids grew up together and it's a different set of circumstances. We're talking about this specific such situation. Based on everything that Stephanie has just told us, they should have been separated. Anna should have had her own room.
9:03 Stephanie Harlowe? Now, here's another thing. After everything happened and Anna was found dead on this cruise ship. And you have to understand the way she was found was underneath the bed of of the cruise ship cabin. And she was covered with a blanket or a sheet and had like life jackets put on top of her. So clearly her body was concealed. This is how she's found. The death certificate, you know, ABC News got a hold of it and it said she died from asphyxiation. Where they said that that somebody appeared to have held a arm over her neck like a bar. And and kept holding. So if you if you look it up, if you know anything about this, it does not take long for somebody to go unconscious if the blood flows cut off properly. From such a hold, ten, fifteen, thirty seconds and then but to to cause death.
9:45 Stephanie Harlowe? Then you have to hold that that arm on the neck for another several minutes, honestly. So she's she's found dead like this. After this happens, her ex-boyfriend comes out and says she's always had issues with this sixteen year old. Stepbrother since he moved in. She was uncomfortable when um her her new stepmother and her family moved in because. She didn't really know these people. And the boyfriend, the ex-boyfriend of Anna Kepner said. That one night, I think it was about six months before she went on the cruise, six to eight months before she went on the cruise because they had broken up. Um, a few months before she went on the cruise. He said he was on FaceTime with her and Anna was in bed and the sixteen year old brother. Came in and got on top of her on the bed.
10:27 Stephanie Harlowe? And Anna's boyfriend Josh was like, hey, what the hell are you doing? And the kid got scared, got up and ran away. And this ex-boyfriend Josh said that Anna was too afraid. To tell anybody in the family because the sixteen year old had made some comments like he would hurt her if she told anyone. But Josh said he went and told Anna's family. And they like ignored him because they didn't, they didn't want to listen. Then Josh's father, Steve, comes out and he's like, yeah, that 16 year old boy was obsessed with Anna, infatuated, like, didn't seem to understand the fact that they were related by marriage and wanted to date her. And he was like obsessed with her and the parents of Anna didn't listen.
11:04 Derrick Levasseur? No, that's a problem. And that's a major problem. And I would say even if they weren't related, let's just say it's a 16 year old boy and an 18 year old girl. That's still wrong. She's not interested in you. And you should take no means no, right? Like, so if you pursue her or give her any indication that you may find her attractive and she's like, hey, get lost. That's your cue, right? And the fact, if true, that the parents were aware of this dynamic and that this was going on behind the scenes, even if they didn't want to acknowledge it publicly to other people, maybe they wanted to say to the boyfriend, hey, Josh, thanks, but no thanks.
11:43 Stephanie Harlowe? Thanks for the heads up, yeah.
11:44 Derrick Levasseur? But then handled it internally. I would have no issue with that. But to stick them all in the same room, knowing that, if it's true that they knew that, to sides to every story, major issue. Now, as we get into this, and everybody's innocent in this case, right, until proven guilty in a court of law, but we're going to get into more about the specifics of this case because I've seen some stuff too, but is there culpability on behalf of the parents from an ethical standpoint? Absolutely. From a criminal standpoint, I don't think so. I don't think so. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know if there's a charge they could hit him with, but I highly doubt it, if I'm being honest. If it turns out that it's what many people think this is, you're going to look at the parents and think they're morons,
12:29 Derrick Levasseur? but I don't know if they can be held criminally liable. That's the question for me.
12:34 Stephanie Harlowe? All right, well, let me finish the timeline. We'll go to a break and then we'll come back and talk about the specifics.
12:38 Derrick Levasseur? Let's do it.
12:39 Stephanie Harlowe? Anna says her bracelet are bothering her. She goes back to dinner. But then Anna's grandparents, Barbara and Jeffrey Kepner, said she came, she got dressed nice, came back down. She hung out with them in the casino for a little bit, blah, blah, blah, having fun. And then she's like, okay, I'm going back up to the cabin for the night. She goes back up. At some point after this, her half brother, the 14 year old, and then her step brother, the 16 year old, also returned to the cabin. But then apparently, according to the 14 year old who spoke to Anna Kepner's ex-boyfriend Josh after all this happened, he said that he got dressed and he went back out onto the ship to take some photos. He gets back to the cabin. And it's locked, he can't get in. And he says he hears some sort of altercation happening
13:20 Stephanie Harlowe? inside. The stepbrother is screaming, "Shut the hell up," you know, yelling at Anna. He hears what sounds like maybe chairs being thrown around.
13:28 Derrick Levasseur? I did not know this part.
13:30 Stephanie Harlowe? This is alleged, according to Josh, the ex-boyfriend, who said this 14-year-old half-brother talked to him when they got back from the cruise. And then he, he left again, and when he came back, it was unlocked, he was able to go in, he went to bed, but Anna wasn't there. Maybe he assumed she just went back on the cruise ship.
13:47 Derrick Levasseur? But the 16-year-old was.
13:48 Stephanie Harlowe? Allegedly, the 16-year-old was, Anna was not.
13:50 Derrick Levasseur? Okay.
13:51 Stephanie Harlowe? So then they go to sleep, they wake up the next morning, Anna's still not in the room. They go down to breakfast with the rest of the family. Anna's not at breakfast. So then her father says he starts going on the cruise ship to look for her, and then around 11 a.m. he hears an emergency calling to the floor or the deck where Anna's cabin is. So he runs to her cabin and he finds out that somebody from housekeeping found her body under the bed. Okay, so obviously, they go back to Miami where they left from and where they're docking from. As soon as they get there, the FBI gets on board. They're gonna start an investigation. What's the FBI gonna do? They're gonna pull surveillance, they're gonna pull key card, they're swipe data, they're going to talk to everybody in the family and get their stories and everything. Apparently, they did that. Now, according to Barbara Kepner, Anna Kepner's grandmother, she was present for a portion of the 16-year-old
14:36 Stephanie Harlowe? stepbrother's interview with the FBI, and she said he's an absolute wreck, he's crying, he's beside himself. He says he doesn't remember a lot about what happened, et cetera, et cetera, but he's a mess. When they dock, the 16-year-old goes to a hospital for a psychiatric evaluation, and then he goes to stay with a family member of his mother. And we know this because his mother, Chantel Hudson, is in a custody battle for her two minor children with her ex-husband, Thomas Hudson. So that's where we're at. We have so much more to talk about, but let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.
15:09 Stephanie Harlowe? Okay, we're back. So Chantel Hudson and her ex-husband, Thomas Hudson, are going through this custody battle. They have been for a while.
15:17 Derrick Levasseur? Understandably so.
15:18 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, when they get back to Florida, Thomas Hudson finds out somehow, probably through Chantel Hudson's lawyers, that the FBI is considering his 16-year-old son as a suspect in the death of Anna Kepner. And he's like, "I need an emergency relief here. I need my kids with me." And taken away from her, Chantel Hudson responds and basically says, you know, "I didn't do anything wrong," et cetera, et cetera. And she says, "But I would like this custody hearing to be basically postponed until any or all criminal investigation into my son is done." And why? Because if she says something during the custody hearing,
15:59 Stephanie Harlowe? which is a civil court, it can be used against her son in a criminal court. So she's saying, basically, "I don't want to, you know, compromise myself or my son. And so I would like these proceedings to be, to be, you know, just put on the back burner until whatever criminal investigation is, is going to be happening." So that's going on with that. That's how the world knew that the 16-year-old was being considered a suspect in Anna Kepner's homicide. Also, we had from the death investigation or the, um, the death certificate, they have put Anna's time of death as September 6th, the evening of September 6th, even though she was found on the morning of September 7th. So they're basically saying whatever happened to Anna happened that night before
16:44 Stephanie Harlowe? when she was in the cabin with her stepbrother. Now, we have a bunch of kind of interviews going on. And the one that I want to ask you about is the one that her grandparents, Anna Kepner's grandparents, Barbara and Jeffrey Kepner, gave to, I think it was Good Morning America, and then other news outlets picked it up. So I want to watch that with you quickly. And then I want to get your take on it because this has been pretty, I guess, controversial, the way that these grandparents, especially the grandmother, Barbara, have been acting, what they're saying about this, and the way that they're saying it.
17:19 Speaker 02 For the first time, the grandparents of 18-year-old Anna Kepner, who died on a Carnival Horizon cruise ship earlier this month, breaking their silence.
17:27 Speaker 03 I just screamed. I couldn't stop screaming.
17:30 Speaker 02 Barbara and Jeffrey Kepner were on board the seven-day cruise in the Caribbean with their son, his wife, and their grandchildren, enjoying time as a family. Anna staying with her brother and stepbrother in a state room seen here.
17:42 Speaker 04 Do you remember the last time that you saw Anna?
17:45 Speaker 03 We had dinner. Anna wasn't feeling well. She just said, "Meemaw, I think I'm gonna go back to my room for a little bit." And she must have felt better because she got dressed up and she came down. We were playing in the casino. She didn't win anything and she said, "Meemaw, I love you guys. I'll see you, I'll see you later." And we never saw her again after that.
18:08 Speaker 02 The next morning, an announcement over the ship's broadcast system changed everything.
18:13 Speaker 05 They called for a medical alert team to go to a state room. And when they said the number, I recognized the number immediately. The room steward that was going in to clean the room is the one that found her.
18:30 Speaker 03 She was found concealed under the bed. I was told that she pulled back the mattress and found Anna.
18:40 Speaker 04 What did the FBI say was the official cause of death?
18:43 Speaker 03 The FBI contacted my son and family and told us her cause of death was asphyxiation.
18:49 Speaker 02 Anna's grandmother said one possibility they're considering, whether it was caused by a so-called bar hold and arm across the neck.
18:56 Speaker 03 You take the elbow like this. They said when they took her body to the medical examiner's office, it was in perfect condition.
19:03 Speaker 02 Kepner telling ABC News they were told their granddaughter's body showed no signs of sexual assault or drugs or alcohol in her system. In an unrelated custody dispute, Anna's stepmother calling Anna's stepbrother, who is a minor, a suspect in Anna's death.
19:17 Speaker 04 Do you think he had anything to do with Anna's death?
19:21 Speaker 03 I mean, he was in a room with her. He was the only one seen coming and going. So, I can't accuse him because I don't know what happened in that room. But the summation would be that, that he did something.
19:36 Speaker 04 And has he said anything? To you about what happened.
19:39 Speaker 03 I heard him, in his own words, say he does not remember what happened.
19:44 Speaker 02 Anna's grandmother says she sat in on a portion of the stepbrother's interview with the FBI.
19:49 Speaker 03 He was an emotional mess. He couldn't even speak.
19:55 Speaker 03 He couldn't believe what had happened.
19:57 Speaker 02 Anna's grandparents say she and her stepbrother were close.
20:01 Speaker 03 They were just like brother and sister.
20:02 Speaker 04 What else could you tell me about him?
20:04 Speaker 03 That he was a good student.
20:07 Speaker 05 Played soccer.
20:08 Speaker 03 He played soccer, very quiet young man. He had demons, I think in his past, and he was trying to deal with those.
20:16 Speaker 02 Anna's stepbrother has not been arrested or charged with a crime. Attorneys for both the stepbrother's parents did not respond to ABC's request for comment. The FBI and Medical Examiner's Office also declined to comment. Anna's family focused now on honoring their granddaughter, a high school senior and straight A student who planned to join the military.
20:36 Speaker 03 She had purpose. She wanted to do things. This little tiny 110-pound girl, she was mighty, very mighty.
20:46 Speaker 05 We were looking forward to seeing her grow.
20:48 Speaker 04 What do you hope for now, in this moment, for your family?
20:52 Speaker 03 I hope that we can heal. Whatever happened in that room, the only person responsible is the person that was in the room with Anna.
21:00 Speaker 04 What does justice look like for your family?
21:03 Speaker 03 Whatever the law says, I'm not going to advocate for anything more or anything less. And that will be for the courts to decide.
21:12 Speaker 02 We are still waiting for the official toxicology and autopsy reports to be released. Barbara and Jeffrey still don't know exactly what happened in that state room. They might never know. For now, they are grieving Anna, who wanted to join the Navy, and had a bright future ahead.
21:25 Stephanie Harlowe? Now, the issue here is, it all seems very nonchalant. And even when you look at Hannah's obituary that her family wrote, they said something like, you know, "We hold comfort in the fact that Anna lived her 18 years on this earth to the fullest." And the way that they're talking about her death is kind of like, maybe it was an accident, you know? Like, maybe she died accidentally, not that she was... violently like killed by somebody that they all knew and even here this there's no outrage it doesn't seem to be outraged it doesn't seem to be anger like hey this kid who we as the grandparents have known maybe a year took the life of our granddaughter who we've known since she was born and we're pissed it seems very like well you know he was the only one in the
22:08 Stephanie Harlowe? room with her so I would surmise that he did something and you know whatever the law says is what we'll go with it's very weird to me and to a lot of people and do you agree it just kind of seems like they're not really sad it's like like Anna was a chronically terminally ill for five years and they were all sort of expecting this there doesn't seem to be anger or even like surprised this interview is given within a week after this all happens you had a person come into your family and into your lives and then leave it in shambles and it's like well he was a bright boy you know he had some demons he had some demons he was fighting but you know he was trying he was trying you really good soccer player like what the hell is going on here man that's my issue
22:52 Derrick Levasseur? I mean it's really transparent what's going on first off anybody out there who experiences some type of tragedy like this don't give any interviews no matter what you do it's not gonna be good it's only gonna it's only gonna come back where you have podcasts and everybody else under the sun talking about it and dissecting it and
23:11 Stephanie Harlowe? well they're not supposed to give interviews
23:12 Derrick Levasseur? they're not that's what I'm saying don't give an interview
23:14 Stephanie Harlowe? so why are they doing it
23:15 Derrick Levasseur? who knows not not the advice of a lawyer I but here's where I think some of these phrases some of this wording is coming from they are being counseled and I think they're being told be careful what you say if you're gonna give an interview nobody has been charged with a crime yet and you could be liable in a civil court right for defamation slander so they're being very careful in what they say and and that and the grandmother specifically is very articulate very you could tell she's polished I don't know if she had a speaking role and something before is like her job was or whatever but I felt like she was she she was very careful with how she said things and and the way she said it you could tell she's saying hey listen we're not advocating for anything I want to make that clear but
24:00 Derrick Levasseur? What are we talking about here? Honestly, guys, like from what I understand-
24:03 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, but even if they're like, who, who, you know, what, what do you want for the person that did this? Whatever the law says. At that point, you're not gonna be deaf, deaf, you know, you're not gonna catch yourself up in a defamation sort of thing. If you say like, I want them to be prosecuted within the full extent of the law. My granddaughter is gone. And she didn't do anything. I'm pissed. That's your chance now to, to express your emotions of like, yeah. Whatever happened, whoever did this, I'm angry that this young girl's life is gone.
24:31 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, no, it's a, it's a tragedy all the way around. And, and I think, yes, they only knew this kid for a year, maybe over a year, but I think they know in their hearts what happened and more than likely, if it's what it looks like, you've already lost Anna and now this boy is gonna be gone forever as well. And we don't know all the specifics. There could be a couple of things going on here. I was, I was starting to say before, before you were talking there that everyone's kind of walking around on eggshells on this one, right? I think everybody who's listening to this, watching this, everyone who's watching it on the news
25:12 Derrick Levasseur? can, can read between the lines. And from what I understand, and you can correct me if I'm wrong on this, there is actually video surveillance footage from that, at least that hallway or that cabin.
25:23 Stephanie Harlowe? It sounds like there isn't. It sounds like they know through the FBI. Yeah.
25:27 Derrick Levasseur? Right. Where from what I understand, and you guys can go cross-reference this for yourself, you can clearly see video where you see who is exactly going and coming from that cabin. So you see Anna go in, you see the boys go in, you see the younger boy leave, and then exactly what the younger boy said comes back and then leaves again. So if we're to believe that, there were only two people in that room, Anna and the 16-year-old.
25:52 Derrick Levasseur? That's it. Nobody else came or went from that room. You make what you want out of that as far as what, you know, two plus two equals. But I'll come right out and say, in my opinion, the 16 year old did it. Now, the question is not whether or not he did it for me personally. The question is why and how, right? Like, there could be something else to this. I personally don't know. I'm not speculating. But it goes from this was intentional, where he went in that room with a deliberate plan, to the other end of it where they were arguing. Maybe there was a physical altercation. And during that physical altercation, she was hurt. Although, I will say, based on what you've told us,
26:33 Derrick Levasseur? the injury doesn't sound like something where she hit her head during, during an argument, right? During a, an altercation that was mutual. So I'm not even going to go down that road. But without knowing the how and the why, we can't go there yet. But the bottom line is Anna is dead. And she was killed at the hands of another. And again, just to reiterate, there was only, if you're to believe what we've been told so far, one other person in that room. Now, when you add in all those other layers that you talked about earlier, as far as the history between the two of them, if it turns out that that is true as well, then I would lean more towards the premeditated or deliberate act as opposed to an accident.
27:14 Derrick Levasseur? And something that was said by the grandmother in that interview, which I'm sure everyone picked up on, he didn't say, "I didn't do it." He said, "I don't remember." Very big difference. But I do want to talk about this more because with all these cases, we can take information from these individual stories and apply them to our own lives for future reference. Let's take our last break and we'll be right back.
27:41 Stephanie Harlowe? Okay, so we had talked earlier and you were like, well, are the parents wrong? That they knew that there was issues with the 16 year old? And he was being creepy towards Anna? And he kind of viewed her in a not so sisterly way? Are there like moral implications? Is it morally wrong, but is it legally wrong? So a lot of people think that the grandparents are being this kind of careful and deliberately saying certain things and not saying others, such as the only person responsible is the one in the room with Anna. Because the family was aware of prior issues and they had these kids bunked together anyways. And so there could be a, a world in which Christopher Kepner and even Chantel Hudson, his wife.
28:19 Derrick Levasseur? Interesting.
28:20 Stephanie Harlowe? Could get in trouble for, yeah, for basically knowingly putting Anna in danger.
28:26 Derrick Levasseur? Yep, child neglect, endangerment, something, whatever the statute is. Were they in, this was in the Bahamas, you said?
28:33 Stephanie Harlowe? They were in like international waters. So I think they left Mexico. It's gonna be a federal thing, but here's the thing. There also is a custody case going on right now, right? With Chantel Hudson and her ex-husband. This is not helping her, but if Christopher Kepner, which he's been now subpoenaed to testify in court in Chantel Hudson's custody hearing, and he was like evading the process server, right? The process server went to his house and was like, the car was running, nobody answered the door. Um, when I like went back to my car, somebody like locked the, the car that was running the driveway. He was in there. It seems like he's evading. Maybe he didn't want to testify during Chantel's custody hearing, right? And why would he not want to, to testify? Because he may be asked, hey,
29:17 Stephanie Harlowe? were you ever aware, was it brought to your attention at any point before you stepped foot on this cruise? That there was some weird dynamics or allegations against the 16-year-old when it came to his behavior towards Anna? And if the, the boyfriend, the ex-boyfriend, Josh, if he did tell the parents what was going on, and Christopher Kepner would have to sit up there under oath and say, yes, we were informed that there was some allegations. And if you, if you, you know, answer yes to that, you've now incriminated yourself. You could potentially lose your other kids, right? You have custody of other kids that you could lose custody of them. If you were proved to knowingly put your, your daughter Anna in a position where she'd end up being murdered by somebody that you'd been warned about.
30:00 Stephanie Harlowe? Things like that could be affected. I don't know legally as far as criminally, but yeah, it could definitely affect his custody status.
30:06 Derrick Levasseur? No, it makes total sense, actually, when you put it that way. There's a lot, there's a lot on the line here. And I think the grandparents are being very careful in what they say because they know this interview could be used in the courts. So they have to be.
30:19 Stephanie Harlowe? So why give it at all?
30:20 Derrick Levasseur? You shouldn't, which is what I said, that you shouldn't give an interview, just shut up.
30:24 Stephanie Harlowe? The 14-year-old half-brother, he came back and he was talking to the ex-boyfriend Josh, and he told him like some stuff. And then Josh said, the 14-year-old brother was like, I can't say anymore. The FBI has told us like, we are not supposed to be talking to anybody or saying anything. We could get in trouble. And then the grandparents are on here on, on Good Morning America?
30:40 Derrick Levasseur? I would assume. That the parents aren't happy about that. That there's no reason to give the interview. It doesn't help anybody in this situation. It just, and the media is not trying to help you either. Right. They're just trying to capitalize on the story and exploit whatever they can for their own clicks and views and all that. So, I mean, listen, we gotta wait to see how it plays out. For me personally, I think it won't be too long before the son is charged with murder. And, and they're just dotting all their i's, crossing all their t's. And we've talked about cases similar to this specifically, like even in Amy Bradley case where it's not only the job of a good detective to find all the pieces of evidence that support whatever you're ultimately gonna go with as far as charges. It's also important to rule out any other scenarios, right?
31:25 Derrick Levasseur? Because the defense is going to capitalize on those. And what we've seen in other trials is if the investigators don't go down those roads as well and say, no, actually, we looked into that theory and we vetted all those possibilities and we looked at all that evidence and none of it aligned with the evidence that we have here. So we were able to rule that out, right? They also have to play defense attorney and they have to go down every theory regardless of how unlikely it may be. So I think that's what they're doing right now is they think they might know what happened here. They're not getting tunnel vision. They're exploring all other scenarios, ruling them out and saying, guys, this is the only scenario that makes sense based on the evidence that we found.
32:08 Derrick Levasseur? Even if it's obvious to all of us, what we think happened, and it may be to them as well, you still gotta dot your i's. You still gotta cross your t's. So I think that's what's going on right now. I do want to bring this back to us as a community. We can't really do too much in this case. It's not gonna bring Anna back. And this is kind of a simple case, I think, for a lot of us to, to take something from. Well, a lot of us have kids, a lot of us have young adults in our life that are getting to that point. My daughter, oh my God, this kills me to say this, is gonna be 13 this month. I've definitely lost some hair because of it. I can feel the changes. I can feel it. And it drives me crazy and it scares the shit out of me. But I think a simple rule of thumb.
32:52 Derrick Levasseur? Whether it's a relative or anybody else, and I've already had this conversation with Tenley, it's, you know, my rules under my house, like, there's not gonna be boys sleeping over, right? It's gonna be, if there's a party or something like that at our home for Christmas or for her birthday, it's gonna be a supervised event, right? I'll be off in the distance. It doesn't even have to be me. It can be mom, it can be someone else, but an adult will be present because when you have boys and girls in a similar area that's unsupervised, bad things can happen, or even allegations of bad things can be made. So, for me, this just reinstills my fear, my belief, that although we want to trust our
33:33 Derrick Levasseur? kids, you can't leave it up to them. Their frontal lobe still is not developed yet. They need adult supervision. Someone needs to be there, if for no other reason than to be a good witness. And so, this is something that just drives home my paranoia and reinstills my belief as far as how I treat my daughters, because it can happen to anyone, including a sibling, a step sibling. If it can happen in that case, it can happen to anyone. That's my big takeaway.
34:02 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah. I mean, I'm just, I, I feel like the, the adults, and there's a lot that I talked about in my video, that we don't have time to talk about here, but the adults here don't seem to be concerned about Anna. And if I'm being honest, they never really did seem to be concerned about her. Her mother left the state after she got divorced from her father when she was very young. This seemed to be something that really bothered Anna, really stuck with her. She posted on TikTok about it. Her father married Tabitha. There's allegations out there that Tabitha was the family babysitter when he met her, and she was 15 years old. There's also a, like, a legal claim filed against Christopher Kepner by Tabitha's mother for a sexual, some sort of sexual thing that's, that may have happened. And there's rumors,
34:43 Stephanie Harlowe? and Heather Wright, who is Anna's biological mother, her sister Crystal came out and said that Christopher Kepner had a sexual relationship with Tabitha when she was 15 years old, and that this, like, killed Heather because then the 15-year-old babysitter turned into Anna's new stepmother and then- Raised her for over a decade of her life. And then Christopher Kepner has two more kids with Tabitha. And then he and Tabitha get divorced. Tabitha accuses him of domestic violence against herself and the children. And then within a year after that divorce, he's married again to another woman. And he just keeps bringing these women and other people into Anna's life. And now in the media, you know, Heather, Anna's biological mother is pointing fingers at Christopher Kepner.
35:29 Stephanie Harlowe? He won't let me come to the funeral. I had to show up in disguise. I had to wear a wig. And he said, if I set foot in Florida, I would be arrested for back child support. And I always wanted to be a part of her life, but he turned her against me. And it's like, this isn't about you. This is not your chance to defend yourself for being a bad mother. It's not your chance to defend yourself for being a bad father. The focus from Anna has been completely missing in the people who should be focused on her the most. Even I think in her grandparents interview, the focus really isn't on Anna. It's just like, yeah, this happened to her. And let's try to make it just seem as like, nothing to see here as possible.
36:06 Derrick Levasseur? I really don't get the interview. If there was a call to action, right? Like if they were looking for information or trying to find Anna and the parents just didn't feel up to doing a an in-person interview, you could see the grandparents being the spokesperson or the spokespeople for them. No problem with that. We already found Anna. They've already, even in this interview, they're saying there's only two people that were in that room. They're saying it, not me.
36:30 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, in which you would think they'd get from the FBI, right?
36:33 Derrick Levasseur? We don't need Sherlock Holmes to come in here. We're not needing any witnesses to come forward. Everyone on that boat, I'm sure is being interviewed, has been identified. They're doing their job.
36:41 Stephanie Harlowe? So why give the interview?
36:43 Derrick Levasseur? There's no reason to give that.
36:44 Stephanie Harlowe? No reason.
36:45 Derrick Levasseur? There's zero interview. I don't.
36:46 Stephanie Harlowe? Unless there's money on the table. There could have been money on the table. But in that case, then I would say, well, money's more important than like.
36:52 Derrick Levasseur? In hindsight, I hope they're regretting it.
36:53 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, maintaining the, oh, I'm sure they are because nobody's, nobody's like, oh, poor you, poor you. We feel so bad for you. They're like, what the hell is this? Everybody's feeling really weird about this interview. So I'm sure they're regretting it. But if there was money on the table and they accepted it rather than, you know, maintain the integrity of this federal investigation, hoping that Anna will get justice, then that's another question of like, what's really important here? So there's a lot of questions and it's just definitely doesn't feel right. Hopefully we'll get updates soon, but we'll be following it and we will update you guys if, if anything comes up.
37:25 Derrick Levasseur? If anything comes of it, and if there's more that develops where there's. Some stuff we need to break down. We could do a, we could do a crime weekly episode on it. But to me, it just doesn't sound like there's a lot here to really, like Amy Bradley is a completely this different scenario because of the lack of cameras, right? And the fact that there are
37:46 Stephanie Harlowe? It's a mystery. We don't know where she is.
37:48 Derrick Levasseur? There are multiple witnesses who say they saw her after the time she would have left the room. That creates a different dynamic to that case. I am interested in hearing from investigators if they heard or saw anybody during their investigation who said that maybe Anna did leave the room and someone else could have entered the cabin. By the way, we didn't even mention this yet. This is 2025. All of those cabin cards are, even back then with Amy, there's a way to know who entered and left the room. Well, left the room is different, right? Unless there's a camera, which in this case it appears there was. But if you have Anna's key card being used to enter the room, and then you have the 16 year olds key card being used to enter the room,
38:29 Derrick Levasseur? and they have cameras showing that nobody else entered that room, whether it was an employee or another guest. And you have cameras showing that based on both hallway entries and exits to that, you know, cabin, nobody entered that area as well. Well, then you know what? I think we can all kind of figure out what happened here. And even the injury to me indicates someone who's in a moment of anger. There's no sexual assault, as you pointed out, from what we know. Something bad happened in that room between two people and it may have happened before, just not to this extreme. It was, it was a bad set of circumstances, but everyone is innocent until proven guilty. We're not accusing anyone of a crime. I'm giving you my personal opinion just based on what we know, and I don't think that's a stretch.
39:14 Derrick Levasseur? Um, we don't know this individual's name, and if they're not involved, we'll be sure to report on that as well. But overall, doesn't really matter at this point. It's a tragedy. 18 year old girl with her whole life ahead of her, cut short because of Something that we're not even aware of yet.
39:29 Stephanie Harlowe? Bad, bad decisions. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we'll keep you updated if we know more, but please let us know what you think about this in the comment section so far. And, uh, yeah, if we, I'm sure that more is going to come out in the next several months, but because this, this kid is a minor.
39:46 Derrick Levasseur? Gotta be careful.
39:47 Stephanie Harlowe? They, and they're, and they're gonna be careful. They're not gonna release a ton of stuff unless it does go to trial. I have a feeling that, that they're trying to sort of build maybe a mental insanity defense by saying he had demons and, you know, he was taken for a psychiatric evaluation and.
40:02 Derrick Levasseur? Well, even more of a reason why he shouldn't be in a room with any other children unsupervised. Duh.
40:07 Stephanie Harlowe? Once again, sounds like you knew he had some issues and so you're kind of implicating yourself even further here, but okay.
40:13 Derrick Levasseur? Maybe that's the right direction they're going where they're, they know they have the son, they're trying to charge the parents. That could be what's taking so long. It's a great point, actually. They, it's a harder case to build to show criminal liability on behalf of the parents. Maybe that's what they're exploring right now. They already know in their minds allegedly quote unquote that the son did it and now they're trying to extend it to the parents saying, you know what? You could have prevented this. You knew what was going on. You put her in a dangerous situation. You're criminally responsible as well. That, that might be the direction we're going. We'll have to see. We'll keep you guys updated. I wanted to ask you a quick question. We have a new crime weekly series coming up. This is Chad Ensel. Am I saying that right?
40:56 Derrick Levasseur? I don't know this case. You chose it. I can see that you, uh, have sent over the script. Can you tell us a little bit about it so people can prepare for it as we're getting ready to cover that later this week?
41:07 Stephanie Harlowe? I could, but then it would give a lot away.
41:10 Derrick Levasseur? Okay, alright.
41:11 Stephanie Harlowe? If I gave you a breakdown, it would give too much away, but it's a bizarre case. I will say that.
41:18 Derrick Levasseur? Okay. North Dakota, December 30th, 2019. So not too long ago.
41:22 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah.
41:23 Derrick Levasseur? We're gonna cover it. New series. It's gonna be a shorter series. We're gonna do it before the end of the new year. Get the whole thing done. So we'll see you later this week on audio on Friday, YouTube on Sunday. Until then, everyone stay safe out there. We'll see you soon.
Previous S3 Ep362: BTK | How a Floppy Disk Led to Dennis Rader’s Demise (Part 5) Next S3 Ep364: Chad Entzel | The House Fire That Was Really a Murder Plot (Part 1) Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated