169: The Slippery Slope, Half-Truths, and Getting Back on The Path, with Jody Mitic.

0:00:00 – Opening 0:01:51 – Jody Mitic: Slippery slope, half-truths, but back On The Path 1:33:22 – Final Thoughts 1:39:08 – Support: How To Stay On The Path 2:24:04 – Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 169 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And tonight, we have a return guest by the name of Jody Minnick. So before listening to this podcast, if you have not listened to Podcast 24, 25, and 111, then go back and listen to those podcasts first so that you can hear about Jody's life, growing up, joining the Canadian Army, his trials and tribulations in the Canadian Army, his successes and his failures, how he eventually became a sniper, served overseas,

• 0:44Jocko Willink?

  eventually in Afghanistan, where he was wounded badly, lost both of his legs, but drove on, became a successful politician in the city of Ottawa, and was carrying on with his life. But things were not as pretty on the inside as they might have appeared on the outside. And when Jody came back on for Podcast 111, I had a suspicion that things might not be going that great. There seemed to be something lurking just beneath the surface and for

• 1:26Jocko Willink?

  whatever reason, and there is no good reason that I can give, I didn't say anything. And I actually talked to a couple of my buddies who thought the same thing, who said, man, Jody didn't quite sound right on that. And it was the same thing that I thought, it was the same thing that I could sense in my gut. And my gut was right. There was more going on behind the scenes. And Jody is back today to explain where he's been, what happened, how he slipped off the path, and how he has gotten back on it.

• 2:11Jocko Willink?

  So Jody.

• 2:12Jody Mitic?

  Jago.

• 2:12Jocko Willink?

  Welcome back.

• 2:13Jody Mitic?

  Thank you, brother.

• 2:14Jocko Willink?

  And I guess I mean that in more ways than one.

• 2:15Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, man. Yeah.

• 2:17Jocko Willink?

  So, talk to me, bro.

• 2:22Jody Mitic?

  Getting wounded sucked. And, uh, and you know, you, when, when, when was I here last?

• 2:30Jody Mitic?

  January, January 2018, I think, uh, Kelly and I rolled through. Kelly, uh, wasn't there, but I don't know if anybody can see her here, but Kelly is my fiancee and my best friend.

• 2:41Jocko Willink?

  She's present.

• 2:42Jody Mitic?

  And she's present.

• 2:43Jocko Willink?

  If you're not watching on YouTube.

• 2:44Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, and so is our dog Athena. Um, but anyway, yeah, man, I, um, I spent 2007 to 2017 pretending I had prosthetic feet that did, I get, pretending it didn't matter. I guess that I'd had my feet blown off. And, um, Kelly saw what hap- like, at some point, uh, after I was elected.

• 3:10Jocko Willink?

  What was the position you were elected to? City?

• 3:11Jody Mitic?

  A city councillor, so I think, I don't know, you call them aldermen down here, maybe?

• 3:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, something like that.

• 3:16Jody Mitic?

  And because I had just come off the Amazing Race Canada, um, and I was second place on that, so I was popular in Canada. And so that helped me win the election, but also raised my profile in Canada. And so they made me the sports commissioner for the city and I was the veterans liaison and things like that. And

• 3:37Jody Mitic?

  my personal relationship wasn't going that well. And, you know, things like that. So things in the background, like you said, of life. You know, everyone says, oh, you look like the perfect family, but you know, like it's, what else are you gonna put on Facebook, right? I mean, that's what it's for. And, uh, you know, uh, we were just going in different directions and that's fine. So I actually, uh, uh, we actually split up and moved out in fall of 16. And I found the, the politics job, um, frankly, as eager and, um, as I was to serve, because politics, despite what most people think, is service to your country. Uh, most politicians, uh, could probably make twice as much money doing other things. And just like, like when my book came out on flinching.

• 4:22Jody Mitic?

  I had that deal in place before I started campaigning and I was like, well, well, and also the amazing race, right? So I was like, one of these things will work out. Turned out I got, I got, I got, you know, what do you call it in craps? Where you throw and you get the dice are good, seven? I got seven with every roll. So the show worked and then the book worked and then, and then the election I won it. So I had all these things to juggle, you know? And, and when I, but when I got elected and I was like happy about it because I was like medically retiring that in 2014, I medically retired and didn't want to, of course, like all soldiers, right? We want to carry on. I wanted to train more snipers and more troops.

• 5:07Jody Mitic?

  But anyway, I'm in service to my country. Awesome. And, you know, people tell you something like, you know, going out for the SEALs, it's not what you see on TV and it's this and that. And you go, yeah, okay. And of course you know that, but until you're there, there's really no way. No one can prepare you for it, right? You have to experience it. Yeah, like sniper school, you have to go. Like there's no way to prepare unless you do it. So, uh, politics is the same and, and I'm a straight guy and you know, we are honorable men, uh, for the most part, and we do our best to stick to our word and, and, and politics, I'm not saying that it's not that, but there's a whole lot of pretending. Uh, and by pretending, I mean, you have to say one thing and mean another.

• 5:53Jody Mitic?

  And, you know, it's not necessarily lying, but it's not necessarily the truth. And, and, uh, the political brinkmanship that is with that job means always holding your cards very tight. And, um, you know, and I know, and I'm a, I'm a combat guy, you know, I'm a, I'm action. I'm about getting things done. And, and although that worked in a lot of ways for politics and, and a lot of other ways, it, it wasn't meshing. So I had no, I had a couple of colleagues on council that I, that I liked and I hung out with, but for the most part, I didn't have any friends. Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely. And my soldier, uh, brothers and sisters, they were around, but now I'm this guy who's a politician and a bestselling author and I was on amazing race. So.

• 6:35Jody Mitic?

  Whenever I hung out, it was like, hey, let's talk about what you're doing. Me. And I'm like, can we just talk about the last UFC? Or hey, what's going on at the unit? Or what's the latest equipment acquired that's cool?

• 6:50Jody Mitic?

  People are inviting me places. I'm the guest of honor here and this and and I'm like, I'm missing just being Jody. You know, and and it got to a point where I was, and then on top of it, my legs were not cooperating, like they just didn't want to take the beating of everyday life anymore. And and so I started drinking again. And and it was drinking to mask the pain mostly, but also

• 7:18Jocko Willink?

  So what does that look like when you, first of all, how how long had you stopped drinking for? Or did you completely stop?

• 7:24Jody Mitic?

  I never stopped drinking, but I was, because I got addicted to the opioids. Pardon me, because I got addicted to my OxyContin, I didn't want to take pain meds. So at the end of a day, long day, so I'd show up at the office usually between six and eight. You know, if depending on what was going on, of what committees I was sitting on or of council, what meetings? And and then politics is all about being places to shake hands as well. And that's, I love that part, meeting people, talking to people, it's awesome. I have no, you know, me and the mayor go along and I, you know, I I get along with the other two levels of government and it was fun and and you go places and you represent veterans and that's the important thing for me.

• 8:05Jody Mitic?

  And, you know, the whole point to get into politics is to be a better representative for my brothers and sisters that that are now veterans.

• 8:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, because I got to throw this out there where you talked about how when you're a politician, you're serving your country. And unfortunately, there's a lot of politicians that when they're politicians, they're serving themselves. And I'm sure you must have seen that, and I know that's what makes people get that stereotypical negative attitude towards politicians. Because oftentimes politicians are just looking out for their best interests. And whether that means they're doing things inside their district because they just want to Get something for themselves like more money, but but oftentimes it's they're just doing what they need to do to get reelected. Which is still self-serving.

• 8:51Jody Mitic?

  Well, that's the funny thing with politics is if you're self-serving. It's it's a it's a catch 22, what you right? And you just you just pointed it out, right? Like, if I get reelected, I can still continue to do this for my community. But I have to get reelected. So I do this to get reelected and then I can do this for my community.

• 9:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 9:09Jody Mitic?

  It's kind of like that.

• 9:10Jocko Willink?

  Play the game.

• 9:11Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, it's that your favorite word, the dichotomy of of politics. So quite often, though, I found myself, uh, like there was one, uh, thing where my staff were and it was and it's, you know, the stupidest things I can can get you, especially at city level. The hardest level of politics in I in Canada, anyway, I don't know about here, but is the city level, the municipal level, because you are you are plugged into 90% of most people's daily lives flushing water. Our toilets flushing, water running, 911 working, the dog park, you know, being cleaned up, the grass. You know, snow plowed, if you're in Canada, here, I guess, uh, I don't know, what do you guys have? Storm drains that maybe get plugged now and then?

• 9:54Jocko Willink?

  Potholes.

• 9:54Jody Mitic?

  Potholes. Potholes is a huge issue in Ottawa, actually. Uh, so you know, it's you're always on. So you go around, you meet people and and so, you know, I love that part, but my legs started to just go. And so I didn't want to take the pills and.

• 10:10Jocko Willink?

  And what causes that? Is it just the friction beat down on your legs all day long, every day?

• 10:15Jody Mitic?

  Well, it's like, uh, you know, your your elbows are designed for, you know, a certain amount of weight bearing, right? And the skin there can handle it. But now try weight bearing on your forearm. You know, uh, unless you really work at it, you know, uh, and even then the skin there will never take weight like your elbows will. And that's what happens with with prosthetics and with amputations and and so, um, I was also wearing my legs in a what's called a suction with a suction system. And so what that is, is the the liner around my that I put over my leg before I put them into the socket has like a gasket. And it pushes the air out, uh, and it's a one-way valve. And so then it's like, and so it's a vacuum, right? And so that vacuum was constantly pulling on the leg and for

• 11:00Jody Mitic?

  most people have no issue. But for whatever reason, um, and I looked around and I realized that most double below knee amputees use a sleeve. So now I use a sleeve, but at the time. Because every layer is that much more dexterity lost in the movement of your knee.

• 11:17Jocko Willink?

  God.

• 11:17Jody Mitic?

  Right? And I'm like, I'm like I was telling Echo before the show, like I've, I've done things with prosthetics that most of the guys that make them are like, I've never seen anybody break it this way like, or I've never seen this type of damage. Or like, you did what? Like, you're not supposed to do these things as a double amputee. And so I just wanted the most mobility possible. But I was actually losing mobility because of the pain that I was putting myself through. So my, my skin just couldn't handle that constant suction. And so, um, so I was drinking, you know, I tough it out, grit my teeth. And at the end of the day, we go to the pub next to city hall, have a few drinks, talk some politics. And usually I'm the last one there. And, and then like, you know,

• 11:58Jocko Willink?

  Did this, did it escalate to that? Where, where you're like, oh yeah, we're gonna have a couple of drinks. And then it's like, oh yeah, a couple of drinks. And most people are gone. That's all, I'm still fine. And then eventually you look around and you're like, oh, I'm the last person here. And oh, it's been three weeks that I've been the last person here.

• 12:13Jody Mitic?

  It was like three months. Yeah, it was six months. And then like, and I was known now, you know, and then in city count, like the inside politics of, of city hall was Jody, you know, if you want a party called Jody, you know, or for where's Jody at? That's where the fun is. And you know, and I'm not saying like it was like crazy things that you see on House of Cards or anything like that. But if there was an event, I was there, you know, and you know, and again, like for a bit of it was avoiding going home. Um, and dealing with that situation properly. And then, um, the more pain I was in, and then, you know, and then the more pain I'm in, the more I'm, I'm drinking. And then the more I'm drinking and then, you're just putting yourself through more damage, right? Like you're out later, but because you're not feeling it, you're out later.

• 12:56Jody Mitic?

  Then you're causing more damage, right? So I move out fall of 16 and then in spring of 17, my legs are just, they're done. They're just like, like I, I, uh, I came back, I did this thing in Canada called Canada Reads. And it's a national thing where like you, you read a book and then you try to get it to win the contest. And it's a week in Toronto and, um, and I did that and I gritted my way through it. And then I got home and I was at my old house with, with my ex and my kids and, and, uh, and I took my legs off after, because I just, I went there straight from the flight because I wanted to see the girls. And I took my legs off and like she would, like my ex, she was there the night I was wounded. And she said that she'd never heard me in the 10 years she's known me make those types of pain, sounds from pain.

• 13:42Jody Mitic?

  And because I took my legs off and it was it was just like torture like because while you have the pressure on and and and you're using them like a kind of you know and you sprain an ankle maybe you know when you go around on it.

• 13:54Jocko Willink?

  Like numbs it for.

• 13:54Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, and that but at the end of the day, when you get off, take the weight off, that's when it really hurts.

• 14:00Jody Mitic?

  That's basically what happened and she was like, wow, I've never heard you make those noises, you must be in real pain. So after that, I just couldn't wear my legs anymore. And that's like, I mean, I saw you almost a year later, I was still in my wheelchair.

• 14:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. How much of that is, I know you were going hard, working hard, how much of that is because you're spending an extra three, four hours a day standing around at the bar drinking? How much of that is because the the damage that alcohol is doing to your system?

• 14:27Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:27Jocko Willink?

  How much of it is self imposed?

• 14:30Jody Mitic?

  Good 50% I'd say, yeah. Yeah, I mean, just getting out of bed and putting the legs on hurt. And then, you know, it's like, it's like, again, when you I I always go to the ankle because I used to sprain them a lot when I had them. And and that sucks as an infantry guy, but I learned how to tape them and I did some exercises, but but you know, like once getting into your boot, once you're in there, though, and you lace it up and you're usually good to go then, right? So that's what I was doing every single morning for like a year. And and then like and then, you know, I'm just going to say it now, I started abusing cocaine. And then to go because, you know, when you have a few drinks, you start to wobble and and unfortunately, I picked up the habit after my first rotation Afghanistan, it was

• 15:14Jody Mitic?

  like kind of like a seeking that thrill again, I don't know, I'm sure you've had a lot of troops tell you this type of thing, but and and and it goes out of your system in a couple of days. And whereas weed is there for months at a time, you know, and I'm I don't know, I hadn't I hadn't touched anything since like high school when my buddy's hot mom sold hash. And me and my other buddy would hang out and buy I'd buy it, I never I only smoked it like three times, but anyway.

• 15:42Jody Mitic?

  Then you're out even longer. And you're still wearing your legs even longer. And, you know, and any and.

• 15:48Jocko Willink?

  What was the what was the? How did you just a you kind of just said, oh, yeah, I was drinking and then I was doing some cocaine?

• 15:54Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 15:55Jocko Willink?

  For me, that's a big step like, I mean, well, we need to, because here's the thing, I want people to understand what opened that door up, what made you say to yourself, you know what? I'm I'm a politician or I'm a wounded vet. I can do kind of whatever I want.

• 16:11Jody Mitic?

  Well, that was part of it.

• 16:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Jody Mitic?

  Um, I I because I had so much success and I was so much, um, you know, it was my name on the on the door. Uh, you know, and and and and at first, like, I went in with full intentions of being doing the honorable thing and this. And and and being being a stand up guy and I I think I was for a lot of part, but. Where I started going down is when it was the booze and the and the coke started to fill in the gaps where I should have been at home or in the gym or. Or things like I was seeking immediate reward, you know, like I would like say a powered through a week of pain.

• 16:50Jody Mitic?

  And and like getting up early and going because I was, you know, right up until I moved out of the house, like I was training for a bodybuilding show. I was looking good. I was feeling good. I was going here. I was going there. I kind of started feeling arrogant, you know, like like I I'm Jody Middick and I work my ass off and I'm gonna party my ass off this weekend because I can't. And then it went from the weekend to, okay, it's Thursday. Uh, you know, and we got no meetings tomorrow at City Hall, so I'm gonna sleep in tomorrow. Because tonight I'm going and there's always events. There's always events where you can go and eat and drink and meet people and look cool and.

• 17:26Jody Mitic?

  And I was the guy who did Amazing Race, wrote a book, got or got wounded in Afghanistan, powered his way back, da da da da, got elected, you know, like I was always on display, it felt, you know? So when I was allowed to be myself, I kind of just let loose, you know, I'd like light the fuse on the on the rocket.

• 17:42Jocko Willink?

  Was anyone advising you? Was anyone pulling you aside going, hey, bro?

• 17:46Jody Mitic?

  No, no, because I was the man in my world. I was I was in charge. I like my assistant. Um, he tried his best.

• 17:59Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 18:00Jody Mitic?

  But, you know, it's not something like, um, like even even Kel, like she was around for a little bit, like it's not something you just walk up and go, hey, Jaco, you do fucking, sorry. Kind of, hey, Jaco, are you doing coke? You know, unless you have that relationship with someone, you can't just open that door. Right? Um, like it's like, are you, are you, are you jacking needles up your arm? Like, are you doing heroin? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you can't just so, and like I said, I was the man in my life. My whole world was like, I was so in charge.

• 18:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 18:30Jody Mitic?

  Um, I kind of drank my own Kool-Aid for a while.

• 18:32Jocko Willink?

  You know, I, I talk about ego, obviously, all the time. And one of the things I say when I talk about ego is, is when you start believing your own hype, right?

• 18:41Jody Mitic?

  Oh, bro, it's the worst.

• 18:42Jocko Willink?

  And if you put yourself in a position where no one even has the, the balls to come up to you and say, hey, I think you could do this a little bit differently. And even if they do, or they try and hint at it, you kind of steamroll them because you're the man. And this is what that situation is where you aren't looking at yourself thinking, okay, what, what am I really doing right now? How is this working out?

• 19:06Jody Mitic?

  Well, in my view, for a long time, it had all worked out fine.

• 19:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Which, which all that does is solidify your beliefs. Like, you're on the show, you come in second, but you came in second with no legs. That's pretty much like first place, right?

• 19:22Jody Mitic?

  I sprinted past a sprinter. Like, that girl Selena, she was a sprinter in high school and I sprinted past her, you know? Um, and I'm, I'm getting older and, you know, my, you know, I'm just, I was what? Yeah. It just, but it started being like, it was a, it was a Saturday night and then it was a weekend thing. And then it was like a four day weekend. And then next thing I knew, I was out because, you know, I, I didn't need to go home. Uh, and I saw the kids on the weekends and stuff. So I just, I was able to manipulate my, and I'm the boss of my own schedule even.

• 19:54Jocko Willink?

  You're manipulating everything, including yourself because you're rationalizing. It's so funny because it's not like you don't see this play out over and over and over again with, uh, with famous people, right?

• 20:07Jody Mitic?

  Everybody.

• 20:07Jocko Willink?

  Famous people that all of a sudden they, they get a, they get a role in a movie or they, they do something that they, they get recruited to a, a professional sports team. And next thing you know, no one can tell them anything. And they're going to go and they're going to go hard. And the other thing that happens. Is you get surrounded with yes men, people that are just telling you, oh yeah, yeah, you do whatever you want. And in my opinion, a lot of times those yes men, they're, they're actually digging, they're, they're actually possibly. Well, they're either trying to hook on to you and get what they can out of you and ride your coattails.

• 20:39Jody Mitic?

  Hundred percent.

• 20:40Jocko Willink?

  Or there's someone that just looking to make you fall down because they're jealous.

• 20:44Jody Mitic?

  A hundred percent. I was surrounded by both and I'm not, and hey, if you're around me and you're listening to this, I'm not saying that was you. But there are some people that might be listening that know exactly what they were in my life at the time. And looking back on it, it's like, you know, it's like doing a map recce after the, after the mission or something. And then you go, oh, how did I not see that right there, that object or that obstacle right there? How did I miss that? When it's so obvious. So, you know, um, I spent.

• 21:16Jocko Willink?

  So I think it's important to like, just pause for a second though, because people go into these situations all the time. And what you have to do is you have to be, you, you have to do a map study, like you're saying, you have to do a reconnaissance. You have to look around and say, hey, maybe I don't know exactly where I am. Maybe I need to look for some of these obstacles. Maybe I need to look for some of these obvious pitfalls that I'm going to look back in five years. And I'm going to say, oh, that person was a leech or oh, I was being an idiot or oh, everyone was fueling the fire. So they could get more out of me. And when, when that's the way it is, if you're aware of that, that you're going to get yourself in that situation.

• 21:53Jocko Willink?

  The problem is, the problem is you get in that situation, you're supposed to be self-aware, but you can't because you're in that situation. Right? It's a, it's a catch 22.

• 22:04Jody Mitic?

  And I'd got to tell you, man, um, when you're doing the amount of drinking and then the amount of drugs I was doing, you, it's impossible. Your, your, your ability to think objectively and, and self, like your self-awareness dissolves. And guys like you and me and, and we're supposed, like, you know, we're warriors, we're elite, this and that, we're supposed to have it all together. But it's actually, it's super common in our, in our, in our, uh, in our community. And it's because we're so used to being on point. I think for me, what happened was I was so used to being on point that it just never occurred to me I was. And it took her, my kids even, my mom, my dad, my brother, my sister, my assistants,

• 22:46Jody Mitic?

  uh, my, a couple of good friends, um, to kind of just start to turn the ship. And when I was here last time, the ship had just barely started to turn. I had just, before we came, drove down here. I had just quit drinking and, uh, at New Year's, which was actually pretty easy. And, you know, I just, I hadn't used since we started the road trip. And we saw you like, I think in the last half of it. So, um, and I felt like, oh, I, I don't, obviously I'm not addicted. I, I can go three weeks or whatever it was. And, um, and so 2017 was the down and then 2018 was a bit of a leveling out.

• 23:27Jody Mitic?

  And then I had a hard crash right before New Year's this year, or yeah, I guess, whatever, a couple of months ago. And that's when her, Kelly, and everyone said, if you don't go to rehab, you're gonna lose it all.

• 23:39Jocko Willink?

  So I have to back up because

• 23:41Jody Mitic?

  I know, sorry man.

• 23:42Jocko Willink?

  You, you jump like, you're like, oh, then it leveled, then crashed and, and also we're good.

• 23:48Jocko Willink?

  Cause I, cause what, for me, what I want to see is I want to be able to recognize the warning signs better, right?

• 23:53Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I know. And I'm, I'm trying, I'm, I'm glossing because it's me.

• 23:56Jocko Willink?

  Did you get in trouble? With your governmental job, with your political position?

• 24:03Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 24:03Jocko Willink?

  Did people eventually say, cause I remember at one point, you missed a meeting.

• 24:08Jody Mitic?

  You missed several meetings, yeah.

• 24:10Jocko Willink?

  And, and all of a sudden it turned into, hey, what's this guy's problem?

• 24:13Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. So in politics, you know, as much as you're your own boss and, you know, for, for municipal level, uh, in Canada, be, or in Ontario, because we don't have a party system at that level.

• 24:24Jocko Willink?

  Apparently you had your own party system.

• 24:25Jody Mitic?

  Oh, I, bro, I was partying. I, you know, I was the party. Um. The time when you're earning is when it's budget time. And that's where you're fighting for your, your, uh, community to get the dollars that it deserves or the programs.

• 24:40Jocko Willink?

  Pardon me.

• 24:42Jody Mitic?

  Sorry. The programs that you believe in, you're, you're there to say, I think that this needs more money or this, you know, shift. That's when you really make your, make your money or make, earn your pay as a politician, so to, so to speak. And, and I just stopped showing up. Like you, you can mess up the whole year, but if you're not there for budget, that's when people start going, hey, man, what's going on? And a really good friend of mine, who's one of the bigger-

• 25:06Jocko Willink?

  So these are the biggest meetings of the year.

• 25:08Jody Mitic?

  And I'm missing them.

• 25:09Jocko Willink?

  The most important things that you have to do, the most important things you have to do to represent the community that elected you. And you're just not showing up.

• 25:16Jody Mitic?

  I just, uh, yeah, just, uh, just tell them I won't be there today. And my assistants is like, dude, I can't keep covering for you. You know, and a good, a good friend of mine, who's also a big political reporter in Canada, called me one day and he said, you need to meet me for lunch or you just, you like, you gotta say something or else you're going down. And I was like, what? And so I met him for lunch and I didn't, you know, and I really didn't want to and, and he's like, this is what's gonna be said if you don't say anything. And he's like, I'm telling you this as a friend. I've known you since way before you, you were Jody Middick. I've known you for, and I respect you and you're, you've always been straight and you've stopped. You're not being straight anymore and you're not being honest and you're not answering questions.

• 26:01Jody Mitic?

  And he's like, this is the world you're in now, dude. Like this is how you have to handle it. And so coming down and doing your show last time was kind of part of that come to Jesus moment.

• 26:10Jocko Willink?

  Once you did that, did you do like a story with that reporter and say, hey, I've been, you did sort of a, I'm guilty.

• 26:17Jody Mitic?

  But I only just told half the story, kind of like, like I was telling you-

• 26:21Jocko Willink?

  You took half extreme ownership.

• 26:22Jody Mitic?

  I took half of the ownership. Yeah. I admitted to drinking. But I couldn't, I still didn't have it in me to admit to the drugs. And. And then what was the reaction of the public? Support, mostly, a lot of them. I mean, they're in politi- the best part about politics is no matter how awesome you think you are, there's always someone. Even if you are as awesome as you think you are, someone out there is going to say, no, you're not. And, and so I had ninety percent of the public say, you know, we understand and you've been through a lot and this and that. And, and we support you. We're here for you and fight on and you're a fighter and, and it was love and I, and I took it in and, and it fueled me honestly for a long time through twenty eighteen. I really was trying and, and, uh, you know, when I went back and did a few updates.

• 27:07Jody Mitic?

  Did you stop drinking? Yeah. After that interview? Yeah, I quit drinking. We quit drinking, both of us quit drinking New Year's Eve. So the interview is December, I want to say eighteenth ish, twenty seventeen. So New Year's Eve, we stopped drinking. And then I spent the rest of the year trying to, the rest of twenty eighteen, especially after the, I stopped wearing your shirts. Oh dang. Good, right? The good with the face. Those are the shirts I have of yours. I, I couldn't. Like in my mind, I, I, I didn't deserve it. I couldn't even, your books are up on the shelf. I couldn't even look at it. My book is up on a shelf. I couldn't look at it. I, um, twenty eighteen, I like,

• 27:51Jody Mitic?

  yeah, I stopped drinking and I admitted to my problem, but then I had to deal with the emotional and psychological effects of realizing I'm a complete loser. In my mind, right? Like, because as a kid, when you grew up, what was somebody who did drugs, a loser? What was someone that couldn't control themselves? Cocaine at this time? Oh, yeah. Well, I had a break. I did. I managed to stop for a bit. But, you know, my relationship with my, with my former partner wasn't, was anything but, but awesome. And, you know, and it's not saying bad or good about me or her, but it's just like, that's what happens in a relationship breaks up. I'm under massive scrutiny by the public and the media now in Ottawa.

• 28:33Jody Mitic?

  I'm under, I'm, I'm under a lot of, just a lot of different stressors are coming in, you know, my,

• 28:41Jody Mitic?

  I just, I just couldn't get anything together, dude. I managed to stop drinking and that was about my only success.

• 28:46Jocko Willink?

  So, does the coke make you feel like a momentary, like, okay, I've got this? Or does it just cover it up?

• 28:54Jody Mitic?

  It's funny how it makes you think of other things. Uh, at first you just, everything is awesome. But eventually it stops working and it starts, starts being like it's an opposite and it's, it's just like they say it is. Eventually it starts to try to rewire your brain. I remember coming off oxycontin and it was harder than getting wounded. And coming off coke isn't harder than getting wounded, but it's easier to get back on. Does that make sense? I probably quit three times a week for a while there. Like I'd go two or three days and I'd be like, oh, I'm doing good today. I didn't do it. And then the slightest like push, like that. I don't know if they can see that on the camera. I'm pushing a water bottle. See it right? Oh, there it is.

• 29:38Jody Mitic?

  I'm pushing it. The slightest push, one half a degree off my axis on the compass. And that was it. That was it. Eight ball and a bottle. Oh, I didn't get it. I didn't get, I didn't drink. Uh, but it was like, oh, well, I need it. The slightest stressor and I would, and I'd go off. And I just, I stopped having the ability to deal with life's, my life's problems. You know, and on top of that, for a lot of that year, uh, oh no, well, 20, after I got back from the road trip where I saw you guys last. I did put my legs back on. Um, but just like not, like just every time I felt like I was like, I'd go up a couple rungs in the ladder, I'd fall back a couple.

• 30:21Jody Mitic?

  And I was making progress, but not the kind of progress someone like, like me is used to. Like I'm used to like being in control. And if I don't want to do something, I don't do it. And if I want to do something, I do it. And this is one of those ones. And I remember when I admitted to my psychologist.

• 30:40Jody Mitic?

  Two thousand, I wounded two, two thousand nine ish, uh, cause I, like I said, I picked up, I tried cocaine back in two thousand three, four, um, after my first road to Afghanistan. And, you know, and it was like, oh, okay, that's like, cool, whatever. Uh, I didn't really do it, think about it for a long time after, but she said that, that one, that one could get you, be, just be careful.

• 31:05Jocko Willink?

  Oh, dude, she actually said, watch out.

• 31:09Jody Mitic?

  But this is in two thousand nine, after I'm wounded. She said, well, what do you do to stress, to relieve stress? I'm like, well, you know, on the weekends, I, my girlfriend and I will drink and do a little and, and she's like, what? Coke? Ooh, she's like,

• 31:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you have a real casual way of saying this whole thing.

• 31:25Jody Mitic?

  Well, sorry, man. It's my life, but it's, see, cause I admitted to her, cause I tried, like, I, no matter what, you need someone you can talk to. I've, I've always believed that.

• 31:35Jocko Willink?

  You know what too? Sometimes people develop personalities that they, they manage to figure out how to make things happen, right? So for instance, some people, they just have a way of talking to you. You ever known someone that can like say something really horrible? But they, but then they say something else. They kind of like can recover from it. You don't feel all that bad or you get, you, so it sounds like maybe you developed a technique of being like, just talking about this in such a way that people go, oh, you know, he's, if he's talking about this in such a controlled way and it's not that big of a deal.

• 32:07Jody Mitic?

  You know what?

• 32:07Jocko Willink?

  It's probably not that big of a deal. Cause that's how you're talking about it to me.

• 32:10Jody Mitic?

  That's how I talked about it to myself.

• 32:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 32:12Jody Mitic?

  Because I even had a military doctor, and I don't even know if this is a real thing, tell me I have an anti-addictive personality. Right?

• 32:20Jocko Willink?

  Just you, you're getting the most.

• 32:23Jody Mitic?

  And this is,

• 32:23Jocko Willink?

  What is it called? You're getting the biggest reinforcements for your bad behavior.

• 32:27Jody Mitic?

  Bro.

• 32:27Jocko Willink?

  But everything you do, you, you win and succeed, even though you're doing stuff wrong.

• 32:32Jody Mitic?

  Imagine if I had done everything sober. You know, like, um, but, but yeah, anyway, she said that and that, and that echoed. And then, you know what? I, I, I didn't even realize the, I don't even know what word to use like the fact that I almost lost my career in the nineties because I was with a friend who bought cocaine and you can read that in the book if and I think we talked about it.

• 32:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we talked about it on the podcast.

• 32:57Jody Mitic?

  And I didn't, I'd never done it at that point and I didn't want to do it, but I didn't want my friend to go alone into some sleazy bar and anyway, and here I am.

• 33:06Jocko Willink?

  Which is just all rationalization, by the way.

• 33:09Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 33:09Jocko Willink?

  It's a hundred percent rational.

• 33:10Jody Mitic?

  That was in ninety seven, here I am in twenty seventeen, losing everything to cocaine, losing everything. And I thought OxyContin was my problem, right? Or the booze. And it turns out like I just, I couldn't slay this dragon, you know? Um, so, you know, twenty eighteen was a lot of up and down, up and down, up and down. And, and yeah, I gloss over it because it's, there's too much to talk about on a podcast, but you and I would message back every now and then, and even the last show, you said, yeah, oh yeah, I went through my texts and, and I saw you said the enemy flanked me and this and that. Twenty nineteen, eighteen was me figuring out how to regroup and reorganize. And, and I'm still, and I realized too, dude,

• 33:55Jody Mitic?

  like, uh, anyone who's been wounded in action or hurt in life, recovery is, it takes, it take, it's taken me twelve years and I'm not even recovered from getting blown up yet. You know, right before the show, we were talking about, and I think we probably talked about it the first time I was here, because I recognized this a long time ago. I was prepared to die or get that awesome wound I can brag about at the barbecue when I'm old. We sent a lot of bandages and body bags to Afghanistan as a, as a force, and I think you, you guys did too at first. We didn't even think about all the career ending injuries that are possible, you know, uh, because we aren't draftees, we aren't the greatest generation. We're professional

• 34:35Jody Mitic?

  soldiers. I saw myself retiring at, uh, I don't know what the age is here, but probably fifty-five, grizzled old sergeant or warrant officer, you know, go and then teach, then teach shooting at the, the Canadian Army Sniper School, you know, as a, as a contractor or something, or, I don't know, I just never saw myself not being a soldier. And, and you know what? I, I realized this the other day. The politics was a Band-Aid. The TV shows, the books, the podcasts, these are all part of me finding a way, but I'm back, you know, I'm, I'm instructing shooting again. You know, with some of my friends, I'm back to advocating for veterans again, you know, which I can have time for.

• 35:17Jody Mitic?

  I'm trying to work, I quit, I could have run again for politics and won easily, even with all my troubles.

• 35:24Jody Mitic?

  I, I didn't want to. I want to be like Jaco. I want to work for myself. No, dude, listen.

• 35:30Jocko Willink?

  Well, I don't know if you remember this, but when you were, I think even the first or definitely the second time you came down and you're telling me about all this, all the stuff that you have to put up with every day, all these people that you're dealing with. And I just said, bro, why don't you just not do that job again? Because the job satisfaction that you're getting out of it is none. I mean, maybe you're getting a little bit, but basically you're not getting any real job satisfaction. You're having to say things that you don't really feel like saying. You're having to talk to people that you really don't feel like talking to. And meanwhile, you're dealing with the fact that you lost your legs in Afghanistan every freaking day is a, is a, is, has presents challenges anyways. And then you're presenting yourself with challenges that you don't enjoy. Cause it's one thing to say, oh, I'm going to go

• 36:14Jocko Willink?

  do jujitsu today and it's a challenge, but it's a challenge I enjoy, or oh, I'm going to go for a run today, but it's a challenge I enjoy. It's another thing to say, I'm going to go do this challenge that I do not like and I don't get anything out of.

• 36:25Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 36:25Jocko Willink?

  That to me was, was.

• 36:27Jody Mitic?

  It was the first time we met. It was the first time we met and we were at Echo's Brothers Company where the podcast was and you, your advice rang, you know, Kelly and I had a long talk before I announced I wouldn't run again. And she said the same thing. She says, remember what Jaco said? The squeeze isn't worth the juice. Or like, that's the way she put it, but that's what she was, cause I, when I got home, I told her what we talked about. And Kelly and I were just friends back then and, and, and stuff, but um, you know, it, that was a big, my sister, my baby sister, actually she, she said, uh, you know, I knew you wouldn't last in politics. Not be, and she, and it wasn't an insult. She said, you're just, you're not, you're not the right person. Like your personality isn't, isn't for the political side of things.

• 37:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 37:13Jody Mitic?

  And, and I want to work for myself and I love, my podcast is back up. We've done a couple of episodes, you know, where. Still figuring it out. Kelly and I want to do online coaching now for people like we've got some hard miles between us and we want to try and help people avoid some of the things we've gone through. And I'm, and we're starting, and I'm just starting to like wander, I'm becoming like, uh, the guy in, uh, we're, we, I should say, because we're a team. Um, we're like the guy in Kung Fu. We just wander, we're just gonna wander. Wander the earth. Wander the earth and, and make our own schedule and, uh, but we, you know what? We do more work in a day now. Like it, it doesn't seem like work, but we, we get more accomplished in a day or two now than we used to in two weeks. Because it's for ourselves.

• 37:58Jody Mitic?

  And it's just, and it's fun now. But I mean, we're, we're just starting, but I mean, you know, back to the story. I just, um, I lost myself and I finally have come, I think, close to full circle back to who I was. Except, you know, I'm 42 and I accept that I lost my legs and I accept that my career ended and I accept that I'm a complete mess up if I let myself be. And I accept that I'm a human being because of it. Cause I don't know anyone who doesn't have any flaws. But your, your extreme ownership and the way I, I've always, even before I had a term, extreme ownership.

• 38:39Jody Mitic?

  Ask anyone who knows me, I might not tell you the, all, all the things about me or about my life. But I'm not gonna bullshit you. And I'm not gonna lie about things that don't matter. And I know everything matters if, if something can matter, if you're not lying about something because it doesn't matter. But there's some things that are none of your business. But I even, you know, anyone who knows me knows that I don't bullshit. For the most part, you know, because you know, sometimes I'll mess with it with you just for fun. But, and, and that's just the way I want to live my life and, and, and I was bullshitting myself, you, you, her, uh, my kids, the public, all the people that supported me, supported me for half-truth. This is why I told you, your listeners deserve

• 39:24Jody Mitic?

  to have Jody Middick come back and, and say, hey, guys, because a lot of your listeners, bro, like dude. I don't want to tear up or anything because I'm a man or you know, whatever, but I get a message minimum one a week since the last show, minimum. Often it's four, five, 10. Hey, man, heard you on Jaco. Thanks for being so truthful about your problems. And it helped me quit drinking or it helped me get back into the gym and this and that. And I'm like, fuck, I had to come back and just say, hey, guys, like you're you're back in the gym. I haven't been to the gym since October 2016. You know, I know you can't believe it, but

• 40:07Jocko Willink?

  Good genetics.

• 40:08Jody Mitic?

  Good genetics, but I mean, I'm just saying like, I felt like a fraud dude. And I hated it. And like, she would watch me like, just I would get a message and I'd be like, you know, I'd like throw the phone and she'd be like, did you get another message from someone who heard you on Jaco? And I'm like, yeah. And like, my podcast is nowhere to be found. And the book, I could have made twice as much money on that book if I had been put together enough up here to tour with it more, to go out with it. And I still could have done my job. But I was compromising myself so much on the on the front end that on the back end, I couldn't keep it up. You know, so I had to, it was like, do do politics well or do the book well? Can't do both well.

• 40:50Jody Mitic?

  I stopped being able to multitask and everything. And I just wanted to come on the show and say, sorry to you guys and all the listeners and just say, and I know a lot of them will say, you don't know what I owe you. And for me, please, you know, I owe you guys. You guys supported me, but you deserve the truth. And the truth is, I was doing a lot more than drinking. And I did 30 days in rehab at the end of the last, when did I go in? Right after Christmas. And I am back on a path of righteousness, if you want to call it that. I'm trying to atone. I'm trying to rebuild some bridges I burned. And I've had people not return my call and I don't blame them.

• 41:30Jody Mitic?

  I was a bit, I was, I was that guy you see in the movies for a good, solid three, three months there at the end of the year. I went full. I don't want to say that word, but I went, I just, I went full, full dummy. And I, and I realized it. And you know, so that's anyway, why I'm here.

• 41:49Jocko Willink?

  Was there a point, what led you to say? That you were going to go to rehab. I mean, for the cliche is, you know, what was rock bottom? At what point did you look at yourself and say, damn, I gotta get my shit together now?

• 42:05Jody Mitic?

  My girls needed me. Kelly needed me. My mom needed me. My dad. If everyone in your life is telling you there's a problem, there's a problem. And they managed to get through the static that was in my head. And Kelly has had some serious health issues that weren't being helped by my behavior, to say the least. She suffered, do you mind if I tell them? So she had a hysterectomy, right? In 20, Feb 2017, which is all part of the story. And she almost died on the operate, or she then got sepsis and then almost died.

• 42:47Jody Mitic?

  And at the time, our relationship wasn't an open thing. And I couldn't be there for her. And then my legs stopped working and we couldn't be there for each other, even in private. And, and then, so that was 2017. So she's trying to look after me and herself and her own relationship changing. But anyway, so she had, she had a cardiac moment from the stress of watching me destroy myself. So Kelly had a cardiac moment. My daughters were crying, you know, where's daddy? Where are you always? And then you're always late to get us or, and then when we're with you, you sleep.

• 43:29Jody Mitic?

  And, and my mom, for my mom and my dad to agree on something, which is Jody needs help, was another light bulb. And I was still in here somewhere. Like Jody was still there. And trying his best and, and being so self-reflective. And if you ever have to go in through anything like this, it's, again, this is something you can't, no one can describe. And everybody's is different. And you're looking for the rock bottom. I had a couple. And every one of them was, in my, and from my point of view, my relationship with the people I love was on thin ice.

• 44:09Jody Mitic?

  You know, if my best friend, my soulmate and my future wife, the person I want to marry is saying, I my health cannot sustain this. So I will have to leave you because from for my own health. Never mind you, you're my health.

• 44:29Jody Mitic?

  That's when I was like, I, okay, well, obviously, obviously, I got it. This isn't working.

• 44:33Jocko Willink?

  What does it look like day to day when you're doing so much cocaine that it's causing all these issues? Cause I actually don't know.

• 44:40Jody Mitic?

  You're good.

• 44:41Jocko Willink?

  And I probably never will know, hopefully.

• 44:44Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. And if you do, I'll fly down here and we'll figure it out. But that's the thing is,

• 44:50Jody Mitic?

  you honestly believe everyone's against you.

• 44:54Jody Mitic?

  You honestly believe there's no right move you can make except calling that guy who has the stuff. And then, and even though I got to a point where I knew exactly where doing the coke would lead, and I didn't care. I didn't care. I'd waste another day. Uh, or another, usually it was three days were were completely wasted.

• 45:17Jocko Willink?

  Because what, what does that look like when you waste three days? You you buy a bunch of cocaine.

• 45:21Jody Mitic?

  You do a bunch and then, you know, you you can only do so much, right? Before you feel like you just like you physically just can't do more than you can. Or you could, and you know, and because of who I am and the way my mind works, I'm always aware of, okay, there's ODing is possible. Uh, there's just your body could physically give out if you like, your body needs sleep, right? We're we're trained for that, like we're trained like. And so I didn't have all this information. And also, you know, I knew a guy who was Canadian Special Operations Regiment. I didn't really know him that well, but in his mind, and he would brag, he would say, I know what I'm gonna, if I'm gonna die in a room full of cocaine and hookers. And he did. He did it to him, but he wanted to. I didn't want to die. I have no interest in dying.

• 46:08Jody Mitic?

  So, you know, I have all these factors and then it's weird. But at the near the end, I was, oh, sorry. And here's another rock bottom moment. I started buying booze again. Because booze and coke, like one brings you up and then the other one brings you down. And they kind of, that's why they go together so well. And if that's what you're looking for, but don't kids, okay?

• 46:32Jocko Willink?

  So when you do a bunch of coke, what do you, when you say you waste three days, what are you doing?

• 46:36Jody Mitic?

  Nothing.

• 46:37Jocko Willink?

  It's not like hyper productive, hey, I'm gonna go write another book.

• 46:40Jody Mitic?

  Not, not when you're in the state of mind I was at first, yeah, a little bit would take you through the weekend and you'd get, you'd get, your email inbox will be empty, uh, it might not make, some of your replies might not make a lot of sense, but you get through them. Um, you might read that book you've been wanting to do and you might binge watch, uh, like Friends or something, you know? I binge watched a lot of mindless TV on coke, like Friends, How I Met Your Mother, uh, the, the show House, uh, Scrubs, things that didn't matter, cause I couldn't watch, I love documentaries, but I couldn't watch them because they made me too sad. And then I couldn't watch ones that were about people like success stories, cause then I'd feel like a failure.

• 47:24Jody Mitic?

  So I watched all this meaningless TV and that's what I would do. She'd come by and I'd be watching like episode 300 of How I Met Your Mother. I have a piece of, have a pizza box there with one slice with one bite out of it. And maybe I was drinking like a protein shake or something, you know? Cause I had to hide, you gotta hydrate, bro. You gotta hydrate. And so I, and she'd show up with a six pack of Gatorade and, uh, Alpha Brain or like another generic, uh, nootropic. Cause that was the thing. I was like, oh, as long as I got my nootropics. Yeah, but, um, and so that's three days. And because I wasn't wearing my legs, I literally sat on the couch, like, look at my posture right now. This is from sitting on the couch for like a year straight. Like I gotta like work now, you know?

• 48:09Jody Mitic?

  And I, uh, and yeah, man, you just, some of your behavior is inexplainable. And I'll tell you right now, I did some, some behavior that I'm just like, you know, I don't know. It's, uh, it's, I don't know if I'll, and then I wasn't evil or anything, but I was not a good guy.

• 48:26Jody Mitic?

  I was not a good guy. I'm lucky to have her next to me. I'm lucky to have that my kids still talk to me. I'm lucky my mom didn't disown me. You know, um, and at the end of the day, they all came together and I, I sucked it up. I manned up. I took ownership and I went to rehab and I threw my, I did what I did in my book, you know, that, that line where I say, I went back to, to training. Like I got sent to, as punishment, I got sent back to battle school. Um, and I had a choice. I could be the asshole that I was the first time. Or I could show up in shape with my boots polished and my uniform ironed and be the best candidate and soldier that I could be.

• 49:05Jody Mitic?

  And I did that. And I went to rehab and I did that. And then within thirty days, they, they were offering me a job.

• 49:14Jocko Willink?

  I got one more question about the, uh, the bottom. So you, you basically, this happens for three, for three days. You buy enough cocaine for three days. And then you're watching TV, you're eating pizza, you're sitting around, you're just in a bad place. Then you run out of cocaine. And then when you are not high anymore from the cocaine, are you like, okay, I just want to get more cocaine. Is that basically what happens?

• 49:41Jody Mitic?

  Um, usually you go through a period of self-loathing.

• 49:45Jocko Willink?

  Okay. I was gonna say, is there any point when you, when you, when you sober up? And you go, dang, why, why am I doing this? Like,

• 49:52Jody Mitic?

  Well, yeah, a lot, but also it's a joke in the community. Or those that, that partake because it's called the cocaine blues. Because your system has been hijacked and hardwired and been, it's kind of like when you nitrous your engine. Right? And you just nitrous it till it redlines. Uh, eventually there's nothing left. So that's what happens. As soon as you like, let the nitrous out, the, the engine kind of like goes, it has no power for a while. And until it cools off and that's basically what you go through. And the only way to remedy it, if less you power through the three to three, two, three days or the week, depending on how long your binge was.

• 50:33Jody Mitic?

  Till your serotonin levels come back and it takes, it can take, and I, and at this point I was abusing for a year, right? Like steady. Well, actually by the end of last year, it was two years steady. Twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen are basically a write-off for me. As much as I got certain things done, a lot of it was a write-off, but. You you go through as soon as it's done, you're like, I'm never doing this again. Oh, my God, I can't call. I'd call her and I'd be like, I'm sorry. I can't believe I did it. She'd be like, all right, well, I've heard that before, you know, at first it was optimism. Okay, good. Yeah, we'll work on this together and then. But then, you know what? And then, like I said, you know, remember when I said an inch off your azimuth or whatever?

• 51:15Jody Mitic?

  Now it's like a millimeter and you're like, all right. And unfortunately, the guy delivers. You know, so you don't even have to get, you don't even have to get dressed. He just comes to the door and like, you know, and then put it on my tab. And, uh, you know, and yeah, and even when, and when that guy says, are you sure? That's another indication like when the guy who makes money off you being an idiot thinks you're an idiot. You got to start thinking about life choices and, you know,

• 51:46Jody Mitic?

  I I did it. I went through it, man. Like, I'm again, I'm here to tell the truth to you and the listeners because or the watchers, if they're on YouTube, like, I can't hide it. And to to to pretend I just had some issues like a lot of people are you here in the media, right? Oh, they're they're having some issues. Just say what it is, man. It's just as soon as I I went on the a show in Ottawa, the same guy who who came to me and I and I did the and I and I went on a show and I said it, I said, I did cocaine. I felt like a thousand pounds, man, off my shoulders and he's he's like, I did not expect that. I said, I know, man. And that's how much of a bullshit artist I became and I and I hate it. I hate it.

• 52:29Jody Mitic?

  My ex even said once, she said, you weren't a you weren't a sneaky bullshitter before. You know, like, you got to stop this. And, you know, it's, you know, the extreme ownership comes in here because

• 52:43Jody Mitic?

  even when I, you know, when I first back 20 years ago, when I first got sent back to to training as punishment for being an idiot, I owned it. And he would say, hey, you the guy who got arrested for coke? I'd be like, well, I didn't have it, but but yeah, yeah, that was me because what are you gonna do? Say no? You know, and, and I always tried to live that way and I lost myself to this stuff. And I stopped being honest with everyone, especially myself. And that saying that you gotta look after yourself before you can look after anybody else is a, is a hundred and fifty percent true. You know, even, and Kelly even learned some lessons here because she didn't take enough time to recover from her surgery. And it almost killed her again, you know, and she, because she was worried about at work and her kids and this.

• 53:27Jody Mitic?

  You gotta worry about yourself. And, um, and again, man, I'm on like a redemption tour almost, I feel like, and, and I, and I love it. I love it. Like we were, we, where were we? I forget where we were, but you know, somebody said something. I went, oh yeah, I just got a rehab for cocaine. And they went, oh, okay. Uh, so coffee, because I think they wanted to get a drink. And I'm like, yeah, I just got a rehab. You know, it's a great conversation starter or ender.

• 53:55Jocko Willink?

  So talk to me about rehab. What, what goes on there?

• 53:59Jody Mitic?

  You know, it's a, it's a whole lot of just being told to think about how you're living your life. Um, I did, most usually for cocaine, they want 90 days. I was only willing to commit to 30. Because I still had a little bit of like that ego going and stuff.

• 54:17Jody Mitic?

  And I did the 30 and I did okay. And, uh, like I said, they were offering me a job or like, you know, we were in talks about maybe working there.

• 54:28Jody Mitic?

  But you know,

• 54:32Jody Mitic?

  it's funny how like, once you open your mind to possibilities, the, the way forward is, is obvious. I have no business being in this town called Brockville, where the rehab place was. But if I wasn't there, Kelly and I wouldn't have found this building, the one I was sending you. Where, which inspired us to remind us that two years ago, when we first moved out of our house, or three years ago now. Holy crap. Almost three years ago now, when we first moved out from our old relationships and we're trying to establish our own. My goal before I got elected was I wanted to open a gym. And I wanted to build a community of positive people.

• 55:16Jody Mitic?

  And I wanted to like wake up every morning, have a coffee. Like, I don't know why, but in my mind, I have an image of me in shorts with a long sleeve T-shirt, opening up like a garage door. And having like people come in with gym bags like, hey, Jody, how's it going? Good morning, sir. You know, like, and not sir, like, hey, sir, but like, because I'm like, I'm like the leader or like I'm the, I'm the Papa Bear. Of this group. That's what we Kelly and I call ourselves Mama and Papa Bear. And, and even in rehab, they started calling me Papa Bear because I'd be like, I was almost twice as old as most of the people there. Uh, most of them were like late teens, early twenties, maybe thirty, some of them were thirty. But, you know, even the older people, like there was like one woman there in her sixties and she'd be like, hey Papa Bear, because

• 55:59Jody Mitic?

  that's just who we are. Like, like you're the same, you're like me, but like, and Kelly's the same, and we just, we, we want to look after people. We can't help it, right? You know, and the rehab people, look after yourself, but. Anyway, Kelly comes and picks me up and we're, I'm allowed, I'm given a day pass. You know, Echo, they let you go out for the day if you're good. If you're a good boy, Echo, they let you go out on rehab. And so we're driving around. That's when I saw that building. I think I sent you a picture too, didn't I? Nineteen oh five, this thing was a woodmill, beautiful, big wooden beams, like a beautiful building. Unfortunately, it would have been more to repair it than it would have been to buy it, but it put our minds on this path to what a great area that is. The fact that we want to go back on this path of building this community. And so we, we want to build.

• 56:45Jody Mitic?

  So we're still doing it. Every and, and, and we, you should, you should, Kelly and I drive a lot because we have our best meetings, our business meetings are when we're driving. And, and so we want to open, it's called HQ and it's going to be a fitness wellness center. And, um, and it's going to be a more of a community than anything. Kind of like, if you want to just come chill, you can come chill. We're gonna have, I want to have a library. I want to have a podcast studio. I want to have classrooms and, you know, and we're gonna just like be there to, to help you live a better life. And uh, and the best way for me to live a good life is to help you live a good life. And I've realized that now, like even when I was in my military unit, like um, even if I wasn't hungry,

• 57:28Jody Mitic?

  I'd grab extra food and bring it back to the boys, you know, if I, if I realized like there was something shiny around to be had, I'd like find a way to get my hands on it for the, for, for the team and stuff, you know? I'm my happiest when I'm looking out for others and I know, and at the same time though, you know, they're looking out for you. And, and it feels good to have friends and family and, and you know, a tribe around you, right? Like, you know, we're tribal animals. And I, you know, do you know Tate Fletcher? He was Joe Rogan's buddy.

• 57:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, for sure. Well, I don't know him personally, but.

• 58:01Jody Mitic?

  So I met, I met Tate in 2013 when I did a piece for Vice uh, at the University of Southern California, about how they do virtual reality to treat PTSD. It's on motherboard. If you want to Google it, go ahead. I mean, I look pretty cool in it, but anyway. Um, so Tate, I was down here and I'd met Tate when I was here. I did his podcast and then this, uh, you know, so this is going back six or seven years. And um, I've never met Rogan, but I mean, eventually I might. I mean, I know enough people that know him. But anyway, the point is, I was driving around with Tate and uh, we're here in, in California to do a course at Deuce Gym in LA, uh, which Tate introduced me to the owner of, and this guy is just such a cool dude and he runs such a nice gym and the atmosphere. So we're going to take his seminar.

• 58:46Jody Mitic?

  And, and I, and I said, man, I wish I had what you have here in California and he, and Tate, this is a mind change or a life-changing moment. And I had to go through all of this to get here. He said, build it. And I said, uh, what? He said, if you want it, build it. And I said, okay. And it's taken me since 2013 to get back to here and go through all these other things to realize like, uh, I gotta build it. That's why not going into politics again means I can do whatever I want. Like you said, man, like you, you're right. Like it's tough. Like it's, there's moments of great happiness in politics, but unless that's what you want to do, like it's hard. It's very hard. And guys like us, we're self-motivated to do things.

• 59:29Jody Mitic?

  And waiting around for others to do their thing, uh, it's just easier to do your own thing, you know? Uh, especially, you know, like what's, I know he was a German, but in World War II, his, his orders were find an objective and kill it. That was his orders at all times. Like if you don't hear from me, find something and destroy it. That's the basically the mission statement that Kelly and I have put before ourselves. Like we want to build this place, build a community and live a good life. And I never want to be the guy I was for the last two years. And, uh, but I'm go- I don't want to say glad, but it's an experience that I've learned a lot from. Does that make sense?

• 1:00:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it does make sense. It does make sense. It's sort of like the thing I told the Sam Harris when he, when he was telling me that it's hypocritical for me because I say war is horrible and awful, but I always say it's the best experience of my life.

• 1:00:26Jody Mitic?

  He said you're hypocritical for that?

• 1:00:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And then, well, rightfully so. You can't say something's awesome and then say it's horrible. And I said, well, it's like this. And I asked him if he had ever known anyone that had had cancer and survived. And he said, yes. And I said, a lot of those people say, I'm glad it happened because they get this different perspective of life and different perspective of the world and different value of life and different value of the world. And so even though you wouldn't wish it on somebody, you're happy that you had to go through it. And so I, that sounds like a similar situation.

• 1:00:57Jody Mitic?

  Well, it's, I always tell people, I had a great time at war, right up to the last step, because it's a horrible thing to do, but it's what I trained. I volunteered to be there. You volunteered to be there. Like, I always say, you know, people, because a lot of people say they're sorry for me losing my feet. And I say, you know, if I was a Russian draftee in Afghanistan, yeah, be so, feel sorry for me. But I've, I was exactly where I wanted to be, you know, and, uh, and the fact that one of my boys didn't die because I stepped on that, you know, like the, if the, like I said, if the guy in front of me had stepped on it, I'd be dead. If the guy in front of him had stepped on it, he'd be dead and I'd be like, we don't know. Um, I'm glad I was the one that stepped on it. But yeah, like,

• 1:01:38Jody Mitic?

  I loved doing my job. It was a great, it was, it was an amazing job, you know, and the people that you're around are some of the greatest human beings you're ever going to know on the planet, you know? Um, so that's what I want to rebuild. I want to rebuild this brotherhood and the sisterhood, this, this community of, of, of like-minded individuals and the saying, surround yourself with people that make you better. That's not what happens when you're on cocaine.

• 1:02:03Jocko Willink?

  So, so at some point, you went from this mindset of you could see where the future was, you could see that cocaine is gonna ruin your future and you didn't care. And at some point during this, you said to yourself, okay, I see the future with cocaine. It's terrible and I'm not gonna go there.

• 1:02:19Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, well, it was, it was life without Kelly. It was life without the kids. It was life without real friends, uh, you know, like even people that love you to death can't be around you because, you know, you're just not, it's just, it's one, it's hard, you know, and I've, I've had a few buddies go down, you know, and it mostly booze, like booze is the most common one because it's rarely available out there.

• 1:02:43Jocko Willink?

  You can go down to the store and get it for some reason.

• 1:02:46Jody Mitic?

  Um, you know, like, listen, I get a lot of flack, but I'm a fan of, of the, and I know safe injection site is like people don't agree with, there's no such thing as safe injection. Okay, I get it. But the point is, I'm forgiving the option of a place that's safer than a dumpster to shoot up with heroin, if it means we might save that life, right? And I'm also like, we just in Canada federally, we'd legalize marijuana. Um, if it was up to me, anything people want would be regulated, taxed and taxed, right? Because, um, if a bottle of Jack Daniels hurts, hurts Echo if he drinks it, or hurt, like if it hurts us, there's someone who can be held accountable and we can trace that right down to the barrel that it was brewed in or made, I don't know how whiskey is fermented.

• 1:03:30Jocko Willink?

  Distilled.

• 1:03:31Jody Mitic?

  Distilled, there's the word.

• 1:03:34Jody Mitic?

  Whereas if a guy shoots up behind a dumpster and dies, I don't know who to go after and who to like, whose fault is it that it was a bad product or a good product, which is usually what gives them an overdose. But, you know, like, like there's just, um, the path to,

• 1:03:50Jody Mitic?

  you know, like AA is there because we can get booze at every corner, you know? And so we have gambling sites. If you go into a casino, you're actually warned on the door. Like a pack of cigarettes says, if you smoke this, it'll be addictive and it could hurt you. I just think we need to start talking more about things. And so for me, like, you know,

• 1:04:11Jody Mitic?

  I don't like the, I don't know, man, I just, I saw that I wouldn't have the good things in life because of this one thing that had taken over. And I, my cousin actually, uh, in 2017? In 2017, my cousin who I grew up with killed himself, not with, and I don't mean killed himself as in like committed suicide, he just drugged himself to death. And he was addicted to, if it was addictive, he was addicted to it. And we never, I never figured it out and I had to stop hanging out with him. And that was what was happening to me too. My, you know, we call her, you know, whether you think it's weird or foo foo or whatever you want to call it, we do, Kelly and I do believe we're soulmates. And

• 1:04:55Jocko Willink?

  Yes, that's weird and foo foo.

• 1:04:56Jody Mitic?

  Yes.

• 1:04:57Jocko Willink?

  But you can do it.

• 1:04:58Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, well, thank you. Right? And that's the thing. So if you're, if the person who you think you were put on the planet to be with says, I can't be with you the way you are, that's, hey, man, like you gotta take a serious look. And

• 1:05:12Jocko Willink?

  So it sounds like that really was the critical thought in your head, that the person that you cared the most about at this moment in time is literally gonna walk away.

• 1:05:23Jody Mitic?

  She had to. And I saw it. I saw it. I was like, I had to go to rehab to give her a break. And to give my kids a break.

• 1:05:32Jocko Willink?

  When you went to rehab, did you say to yourself, I'm going there? Did you go in there with the attitude of polished your boots?

• 1:05:37Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, no, no, sorry. If I didn't finish that, sorry. I have ADHD if you can't tell. But, um, I went in there, polished boots, pressed uniform. I like, I had my books. I, I made my bed. It was all like the basics. Get back to the basics, right? We even talked about this the first time I was on your show. I shaved my head. I started doing some, you know, started working out a little bit, trying to get back into the little bit of shape. I started caring about what I ate again. I started taking my vitamins. I started, you know, and I went in there and I know exactly what I'm like when I want to portray that tough guy attitude. And that's what I did to keep people away at first. Because at first,

• 1:06:17Jody Mitic?

  You ever been arrested? Yes. Were you happy about it? No. Yeah. So I kinda went in like I'd been arrested, like I was the first time, not the second time that is in the book, but the first, anyway. Um, like I said, I don't put everything in the book, but anyway, you're not very happy and you don't need friends. So I didn't go in there to make friends. So I was, I was like a wall for the first week, right? But that let me concentrate on exactly what I was there to do, if that makes sense. And so as that, as, as, as I was there to get better and do rehab got, I don't wanna say easier, but I got better at it, cause it's, you know, it's a skill that you're actually taught in rehab is how to be better.

• 1:07:00Jody Mitic?

  That's what rehab is. They're teaching you how to be better again. So what, what kind of skills are they teaching you? Wake up on time. I know this sounds weird, but like, you know, when you're addicted. Doesn't sound weird to me. I believe. So it's like basic training, almost. Make, get up, make your bed, you know, come to breakfast on time. So if you weren't at breakfast, you lost your ability to make a phone call that night. And then if you missed any classes during the day, you know, you would have privileges, you know, given or taken as, as the day or the week went by. Now you're, you're, you're at a, a place where you pay money to go. So you'd think it'd be, how do you take privileges from someone? But they do, they do. I was like, I'm a grown ass man. If I wanna make a phone call, I will. They're like, no, you won't.

• 1:07:41Jody Mitic?

  I'm like, god damn it, you're right. Cause I signed that waiver. But I, I've tried so hard that I got to, like, they were bringing me in. You know, I'm not, uh, anyway, I should probably shouldn't say too much, but like, within, you know, I was only there 30 days, but within about, I'd say 15, 20 days, I was someone that was turned to by the other clients and someone that some of the staff would turn to, to like, for backup in a certain situation, or like I said, I went Papa Bear. And but when I first got there, some of the other clients told me like when I first got there, they were like, this guy is a murderer. He's gonna kill us all like, cause I was just so focused and I had this look and I, you know, I know,

• 1:08:23Jody Mitic?

  you know, we're, we're, we, we get up in front of troops and try to, you know, we gotta be the toughest looking guy there, some of them, you know, and so I know how to do it, but I did that to for myself more than anything. Cause I went, okay, I'm back in basic training. I have to learn how to be a decent human being and how to look after myself again. And man, and they took you through check checklist. A lot of, a lot of my personality flaws stem from childhood. You know, and I found that out.

• 1:08:50Jocko Willink?

  Like what?

• 1:08:51Jody Mitic?

  Like stuff I don't want to talk about frankly, and you know,

• 1:08:57Jody Mitic?

  just things that once you read the literature, it's, oh, that is obvious.

• 1:09:02Jocko Willink?

  So you can, you can, and this is a conversation that we've been having.

• 1:09:05Jody Mitic?

  Sorry, I didn't, I didn't mean to be so abrupt. I'm not, I'm not.

• 1:09:07Jocko Willink?

  No, it's fine.

• 1:09:07Jody Mitic?

  But what I mean is I now understand. And that's for me, understanding like most guys like us and girls, if I understand the cause, I can, I can deal with the action. Right? So, but if you don't understand, then it's just chaos. But if there's an explanation as to why my mind goes there, which then causes me these actions, ah, now I can go back and deal with the cause of that behavior. Does that make, is that a better way of putting it?

• 1:09:35Jocko Willink?

  No, it does, it does make sense. And this is something that I just talked about on another podcast, but the first time I kind of recognized that there was these patterns and protocols for psychological issues is honestly when Jordan Peterson came on for the first time and he was, I was explaining how in the Warrior Kid book, how the kid gets over the fear of the water. And he goes, oh yeah, that's a, that's a protocol. It's called exposure therapy. And this is what it done psychological. This is how it works. And I had just figured that out from just life, right?

• 1:10:09Jody Mitic?

  Yes.

• 1:10:10Jocko Willink?

  And then I realized that the, that there's protocols for problems and people have psychological problems. There's a pro- and it's just, and, and I was using the term brain mechanic, but somebody On Twitter said something better, which is mind mechanic. So if I would have been told, hey, oh, the psychologist and a psychologist, they're called a mind mechanic. And they go in there and when there's problems, they know how to fix those problems.

• 1:10:32Jody Mitic?

  I love that.

• 1:10:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And but when you're, well, like me, you're just thinking, oh, that's just a bunch of, what did you say earlier? Foo foo, something?

• 1:10:40Jody Mitic?

  Hippie dippy.

• 1:10:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's a bunch of hippie dippy stuff that you don't really know what's going on. But then you talk to, or in talking to Jordan, I heard him say, oh, and this is a problem that you would see. And this is how you'd fix that problem. And here's another problem over here. And here's how you'd fix that problem. And the really strange thing is it all lined up with just my natural instincts. When somebody had this kind of problem, I'd be like, okay, here's what you need to do in that scenario. I would just know that from dealing with a bunch of guys over the past, you know, 30 years that were having issues. Be like, hey, man, oh, you got this problem? Here's what you need to do. Move, do this, do that. And but a psychologist, a mind mechanic can look at it and go, here's what's going on. Here's what this root ties into, and here's how you stop this, this cycle of negativity.

• 1:11:24Jocko Willink?

  And how you move it in a positive direction.

• 1:11:26Jody Mitic?

  And that's exactly what rehab is. It's let's find the like. You're not a bad person for having these thoughts and actions and reactions. Because you, you know, and that's, and then, oh, here's why. Oh, okay, here's where the pattern developed when you were like five or 10, or then this happened. And your buddy that we were talking about before the show.

• 1:11:49Jocko Willink?

  Jay Redman.

• 1:11:49Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, honestly, I'd love to talk to him because it sounds like him and I probably had very similar childhoods. And and then similar careers.

• 1:11:57Jocko Willink?

  You guys definitely had similar careers. The fact that you got sent back to whatever that that.

• 1:12:02Jody Mitic?

  Battle school.

• 1:12:03Jocko Willink?

  Battle school and Jay Redman got sent to Ranger School. You know, and then it's, it's very, you guys definitely had some similar.

• 1:12:10Jody Mitic?

  I think I was a little more humble than him from the sounds of it, but I don't know, but I, but I was still like.

• 1:12:16Jocko Willink?

  It'd be a close race.

• 1:12:17Jody Mitic?

  I almost got, I almost got kicked out of snipers for being arrogant.

• 1:12:21Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's a close race.

• 1:12:22Jody Mitic?

  And I said, and it was because I didn't say, I said, sir, to the sergeant major instead of calling him by his first name. Cause he liked to be called by his first name by the snipers. Cause then it showed he was bros with us. Whatever. No, see, am I showing my arrogance maybe right now?

• 1:12:35Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:12:36Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:38Jody Mitic?

  No, but it's it's.

• 1:12:39Jocko Willink?

  But that's the thing is Jay Redman, you know, he went through all that and his book is phenomenal because.

• 1:12:44Jody Mitic?

  I'd love to read it.

• 1:12:45Jocko Willink?

  Comes right out and explains all these mistakes that he made and he did a great job, redeemed himself and turned into a great, great frogman.

• 1:12:53Jody Mitic?

  And that's what I wanted. And that's my job. My book on flinching, it wasn't a let's make Jody look like a hero. It was like, let's be honest and clear about how, you know, you start one one's place and end up in another, but you have to, you know, you have to realize that mistakes happen. And, you know, being forty, you know, by forty two as a kid, I thought I'd have it all together. But, uh, you know, I'm still learning. I'm still, you know, like I call myself a student, a student of the human condition. Cause I feel like I'm always learning and I will never, you know, no one's ever an expert on anything. I don't think. And if you think you are, it means you've stopped learning, in my opinion. I don't know. I know we're going a little off.

• 1:13:36Jocko Willink?

  What are the, what are the withdraw? How bad is the withdraw from? Cause I know, you know, I think the only thing that you're not supposed to withdraw on your own is alcohol, because you can actually die if you're an alcohol addict and you'd stop cold turkey.

• 1:13:51Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:52Jocko Willink?

  You can pretty, you can die.

• 1:13:53Jody Mitic?

  If you're deep into it, you can have, um, I, I quit OxyContin cold turkey. And when I told my doctor, he said I could have had seizures and stuff and could have died. Uh, but I wasn't on that high a dose then either. So it's, um.

• 1:14:09Jocko Willink?

  What about when you quit drinking?

• 1:14:10Jody Mitic?

  I didn't know.

• 1:14:12Jocko Willink?

  Not that big of a deal.

• 1:14:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, the alcohol, you gotta drink a lot, a lot.

• 1:14:15Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:15Jocko Willink?

  To be, to be in that situation.

• 1:14:17Speaker 02

  Like these guys who were like drinking the whole bottle of vodka every day.

• 1:14:23Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:14:23Jody Mitic?

  Did you ever see that movie Leaving Las Vegas with Nick Cage?

• 1:14:26Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:14:27Jody Mitic?

  That, like that guy, like he would go grocery shopping and his every day and his cart was full of booze. Like that's.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  Which is actually more common than I thought.

• 1:14:35Jody Mitic?

  Oh, bro, it's, it's crazy.

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  Some guys get after it with the, with the vodka.

• 1:14:40Jody Mitic?

  And the vodka for some reason, because they think you can't smell it.

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:44Jody Mitic?

  And, but I mean, if you drink enough, you can smell it.

• 1:14:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:47Jody Mitic?

  Uh, but, uh, but the withdrawals were.

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  Is it, is it mostly psychological?

• 1:14:53Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, it's big time psychological. Uh, there's some physical at first. Um, is your bo- I went through a period uh where my body was like detoxing. So like I was getting these weird zits on in like weird places and stuff like that and, and um.

• 1:15:09Speaker 02

  Is this from the cocaine?

• 1:15:11Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I think it's from the impurities that they get mixed with.

• 1:15:16Speaker 02

  Right, but then as far as detox, you're talking about detoxing from cocaine?

• 1:15:19Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry. Um, yeah, but I mean, it's more just like letting your brain re-level, re-level itself. So I went in there, I stopped taking any Tylenol, like I don't take, I'm trying to, and I, Kelly and I are working on this, we're trying to get like, we're almost, sugar's almost gone. Uh, I, I don't take any pills or I, I keep going away from the mic. Um, where were we babe? I, we were in West Virginia doing some training, uh, or not training, we were doing some familiarization at a place uh that's built for three-letter agencies. And um, my, my leg was just on fire because of the day we'd had and she gave me two Tylenol and two Aleve and I, I passed out like, like that, I could, I didn't.

• 1:16:04Jody Mitic?

  Oh no, that was in the morning. Yeah, sorry, I fell back to sleep because I woke up with the pain. Anyway, uh, that's what I want. I remember the first time I took a Tylenol and I was in, after I joined the army. And we're on exercise maybe a year later and I was in the woods and my back was a little sore, so the medic gave me two extra strength Tylenol. I just never had Tylenol before because I just, I, you know, I was seventeen, eighteen. And I took it and my body felt like it was on unicorns and sunshine for like three days. And that was from two extra strength Tylenol. When you're doing blow and, and drinking a lot, like you're, you're, that's breakfast, you know, to get over it and, and I like that if I take one Tylenol now, my body's okay, you know, because I'm a big guy, so I need, you know, I usually go extra strength.

• 1:16:49Jody Mitic?

  I want to ta- I want to be able to take regular strength. Remember that? Remember when you took regular strength, anything? Um, you know, I have a coffee and I feel it. It's not just like a whatever anymore. So that's kind of what I'm on a bit of a mission to get back to really basic food and and and liquid intake. You know, like the cold brew that I was drinking when we got here, like there's nothing else in it. It's just coffee. Yeah, that had the nitrogen in it, right? But there's no sugar, no, you know, I'll put a little cream in my coffee now. Um, instead of extra larges, right? We're trying, I'm buying mediums and smalls. So we're trying to just get, get back down to a baseline of, of, uh, of minimum. And, uh, it's working okay, but you know, it's a daily.

• 1:17:32Jody Mitic?

  I talk to my rehab guy at least once a week still. Um, you know, I send him pictures of our travels and stuff, you know? We got the dog. I got the service dog now to just like, you know, they're so busy. Like she's such a, she's a German shepherd Malinois mix. They're such busy dogs that like you just, you don't have time to, to, to be hung over or anything. So and, um, like you quit drinking on your own anyway, right? Like you're like a long time ago.

• 1:17:59Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah. So what happened with me is I just retired from the Navy and, and while, while I was in the Navy, it was pretty normal to, to drink.

• 1:18:06Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, we've talked about it.

• 1:18:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So, but when I retired, I just looked up a month later and I hadn't had anything to drink. Then I looked up three months later and I hadn't had anything to drink. Then I looked up six months later and I was like, well, I have no desire. And I, and I must say, you know, you talked about not having an addictive personality. And I think I truly do not have an addictive personality. I think that other than maybe like something like jujitsu or something like that, which I, I definitely got pretty fanatic about, and I still have a hard time with withdrawals if I don't get to train for a certain amount of time.

• 1:18:40Jody Mitic?

  What did Dean say? You're addicted.

• 1:18:42Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah. And Dean Lister, uh, one time said, I was addicted to power, which.

• 1:18:47Jody Mitic?

  So domination.

• 1:18:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know, I was.

• 1:18:50Jody Mitic?

  I am Jocko.

• 1:18:51Jocko Willink?

  I was giving him a hard time about not training and, um, hassling him and telling me, you know, you're, you're just addicted to that now. And he said, you're an addict, you're an addict too. And I said, what am I addicted to? And he says, you're, you're addicted to power.

• 1:19:08Jody Mitic?

  But hey, if you can do it on the, on the mats, better than becoming like a dictator.

• 1:19:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but the, but the point is for me is when I, I, I never even like, I would say maybe in my mid twenties, I would get fired up like, hey, like we, my platoon, it would be the end, it would be a Friday and we just got done with some hard training and we were in some random city. And it'd be like, oh yeah, we're gonna go out and have a good time tonight. And it was more about like, hey, I know we're not going to have a good time about tonight than it was like, I really need a beer.

• 1:19:41Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:19:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And so as I did that, that was just kind of normal. And there was definitely, the problem with that attitude is there are people that have addictive personalities and alcohol has ruined all kinds of guys in the SEAL teams and all kinds of guys in the military because it's really, it's just a slippery slope to go from, oh, this is just normal to, hey, it's Tuesday night, I'm at home, I'm alone, and I'm gonna drink a 12 pack. That's a pretty slippery, slippery slope that people, people get through actually just having Jason Gardner on. And he, he was, he, he quit drinking just like maybe, I don't know, a couple of months ago, but you know, I said, well, how much were you drinking? He goes, you know, and I'd come home and I'd

• 1:20:24Jocko Willink?

  crack one open and then I'd crack one open before dinner and then I'd have one during dinner and then I'd have one after dinner and then maybe I'd have one before I go to bed. Well, there's six beers and he's not a big guy, so six beers is like, you know.

• 1:20:35Jody Mitic?

  It's good.

• 1:20:36Jocko Willink?

  And he's, he even said like, oh, I would feel it, you know, not feel it like, you know, he's still doing everything he has to, but he's not doing it optimally. And now he said, he said, I feel just amazing that, that, and that's pretty much how Jason talks. So he says, I feel amazing now. So, but he's one of those guys that, you know, you could go down that slippery slope and he wasn't far down it, but he would look up every night and go, you know, cause when you wake up, let's face it, you have six beers, you don't feel as good as if you had no beers. And that's something you talked about, Echo.

• 1:21:06Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I remember that. You were talking about drinking too much vodka or something.

• 1:21:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, fully.

• 1:21:10Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the next day you feel like the brakes are on.

• 1:21:12Jody Mitic?

  That's the thing, like you wake up and you feel foggy and like, you know, like three days are wasted if you do too much any, of anything, you know, like you could, who knows, but um, to put, you know. I knew guys that woke up and drank whiskey with breakfast. You know, but it was so accepted in our world as well.

• 1:21:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:33Jody Mitic?

  Um, that it was, you know, if you showed up for PT and you were hungover, it was a joke.

• 1:21:39Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:21:39Jody Mitic?

  Oh, what's up, Jody? You feeling last night still?

• 1:21:42Jocko Willink?

  It was a badge of honor. It was a badge of honor. Like, oh yeah, this guy's drunk. Wow, look at how well this guy can run, even though he's hammered.

• 1:21:47Jody Mitic?

  Look at Mitic running, even though he's like throwing up on the move. That's soldier right there.

• 1:21:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. There's, there's an old SEAL Master Chief at SEAL Team One before I got there, an old Vietnam guy. And when you went in to talk to him, he would pour shots of tequila. That's how it was gonna be like, oh, it's nine o'clock in the morning. Cool. You want to talk to me? Roger that, we're doing shots.

• 1:22:04Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, old school.

• 1:22:05Jocko Willink?

  And that's, again, there's people that can handle that and there's people that can't. And broadly speaking, let's face it. And this is what I eventually thought to myself, broadly speaking, it made no, it makes no sense whatsoever to me now. As I look back, I'm like, this makes no sense to me. This does absolutely nothing positive for me. Doesn't make me stronger, doesn't make me smarter. In fact, it does the opposite, makes you weaker and makes you dumber.

• 1:22:28Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:29Jocko Willink?

  But it took me a long time to figure that out. And the weird thing for me is when I was a kid growing up, I was into hardcore music and like the straight edge scene of people.

• 1:22:38Jody Mitic?

  You had the X's on your hand.

• 1:22:39Jocko Willink?

  I didn't actually have that, but, uh, but I definitely listened to that music and it was, it, it had an influence on me. Without a doubt, it had an influence on me because it was, it was, it was a rebellion and a counter to the kids that I knew that were getting drunk and acting stupid and smoking pot. And I'm over here going, literally thinking, you're weak and I'm strong. That's an arrogant thing to say, but that's as a, as a 14, 15, 16 year old kid, when you're looking at someone else that's smoking pot and getting drunk and you're thinking, they're weak and I'm strong, that's kind of a positive thing as far as I'm concerned.

• 1:23:15Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I remember getting called weak when I didn't drink in the platoon.

• 1:23:18Jocko Willink?

  Oh, a hundred percent.

• 1:23:19Jody Mitic?

  But I grew up, both sides of the family have their fair share of alcoholics. Um, even, even as a kid, I was someone who, you know, even though I'm Canadian, Nancy Reagan saying what the drugs worked. Uh, like I said, I smoked hash a handful of times because my buddy's mom was hot and she sold it and, um, You know, and then I didn't, I didn't touch anything except booze. And even then it was like, I was like you, I was like, I could go three months and not drink and just be like, I haven't had a drink for like three months. You know, I quit cigarettes when we're on deployment because I couldn't run up the hill next to the, to our camp. I was like, fuck, if I can't run up the hill, obviously these things don't, you know, it's just something I picked up as a, cause I, I watched Lethal Weapon too much. Yeah. Mel Gibson. Oh, and then, and then Bruce Willis, Bruce Willis and Mel Gibson, all they did was smoke in their movies.

• 1:24:04Jocko Willink?

  Do people still smoke in movies right now, Echo Charles?

• 1:24:06Jody Mitic?

  A couple. Way less, way less, yeah. I was watching that movie Constantine with Keanu Reeves last night. That's one of my favorite movies. I don't know why. The demons and the. Yeah, I don't know. I just liked that one, but uh, he smokes a lot, but that's the character. He dies of lung cancer in that. Right. Like that's part of the plot. Yeah, he actually has it. Yeah. He actually has lung cancer in the movie, but uh, anyway, yeah, I just, I, but I, and I, and the guy who told me about this anti-addictive personality, like in my twenties, so I kind of skated on that.

• 1:24:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah. You felt like that was more reinforcement for your personality.

• 1:24:41Jody Mitic?

  I just, but also like I quit smoking and drinking, honestly dude, like it, I said it was a problem because at the time it was, but it was because I was doing all the coke. Cause and it levels you out. And I quit drinking New Year's Eve with Kel. Like she was like, I don't want to drink anymore. If it helps you not do coke. And I was like, all right, awesome. So we quit drinking, but that the cocaine just wouldn't let go. And again, I'd go through like a week where I wouldn't do it and then I had a week where I did it and then, you know, but eventually my, like you said, your buddy didn't hit like his bottom wasn't like your bottom. You know what? I was thinking about, uh, your bottom is whatever you want it to be. And uh, and so I, I saw the bottom coming for, for the whole, for like the whole time, pretty much.

• 1:25:25Jody Mitic?

  2017, I didn't for a lot of it, uh, but near the end it was, it was clear that there was a problem. Like I still didn't really see the problem until I was doing those interviews and then right before I saw you, but then 2018 it was trying to level out and figure out which way it was up, which way it was down again, you know? And uh, you know, don't be afraid to call in reinforcements like we talked about last time, like. No, no one is a rock. No one's an island, right? Like you don't, like Rambo isn't real, right? As, as cool as a movie character he is, um, he has air support. He has, you know, he has a fire team. He has a, he has a machine gun team on the flank. He's got, you know, he's

• 1:26:05Jody Mitic?

  got a, uh, indirect on standby. Like, no one is a one man army and, you know, and I, I talked about this last time and I talked about it the first time I was on the show and I keep relearning these things, but in different contexts. And, you know, I'm, I hope I'm done learning, uh, these, these lessons. Um, you know, uh, and I want to get back to just live in positive, clean. Um, you know, I, I've, I'm repeating myself now, but dude, like, it was rough and I honestly, I questioned whether or not like, you know, like people like you or people, uh, in, in Canada, there's some of my friends, like, are they going to accept when I'm this

• 1:26:45Jody Mitic?

  honest? But I was prepared for the consequences too, because that's, I felt like what I deserved with my actions. Does that make sense? Okay. And, and I, for the most part, like I said, everyone's been understanding, like, and, and it makes it easier for me to talk about, you know, one of the reasons I, I've, I've talked about with my psychologist, why I didn't get PTSD from my injuries is because I talked about it so much. So I'm hoping that talking about this openly and if, if, if more listeners to the show and, you know, um, if you go to my show, the Jody Middick podcast, episode 39, I believe is full disclosure, where I tried to,

• 1:27:28Jody Mitic?

  I tried to lay it all out even more than we have here. Um, and it feels better every time I tell the story, you know? And it's a lot to get into, like an hour or two. It is really, but you know, with us, it's almost like an evolution, right? The first show, we did good, but you know, even back then, like if things were, things were getting to be a little dicey with the politics and with the home life and stuff, but, and man, I, I just, and you know, I did go through a period where losing my legs became a real problem there. And Kelly's nodding her head because she saw it, you know, like, when I couldn't wear my legs, I couldn't drive my car. I know I drove here last time, but I, I had with the hand controls. When I

• 1:28:12Jody Mitic?

  first took the legs off, that, I didn't have that. I was in an apartment by myself.

• 1:28:18Jody Mitic?

  You know, anyway, I just, you know, uh, here I am.

• 1:28:24Jocko Willink?

  Do you, do you?

• 1:28:26Jody Mitic?

  You know, the dog's coming up because you can feel him getting a little worked up right now.

• 1:28:29Jocko Willink?

  How hard day to day?

• 1:28:34Jocko Willink?

  Are you thinking to yourself like, what's the temptation level daily where you have your friend that delivers?

• 1:28:41Jody Mitic?

  Right, right now? None.

• 1:28:44Jocko Willink?

  So how hard is it on like a day to day basis? What's the temptation like?

• 1:28:52Jody Mitic?

  Um, at first it was massive. Like I would, um, you know that show Narcos? I can't, I can't, I haven't, you know, uh, you know, the show Narcos. It's about Pablo Escobar.

• 1:29:03Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:29:04Jody Mitic?

  So they just came out with season two, which is now the Mexican cartels. I haven't watched a single episode. We were watching Pulp Fiction and I had to turn it off when the, what's her name? Did a line of coke before when John Travolta was picking her up like that is like I could, I even now I avoid anything that has drugs in it for the most part. Um, and at, and at first it was, and even when I was using like, if I was on a roll where I was like two or three or four days where I hadn't used, if I put on a show like Scarface, I was like, oh, you can't watch Scarface sober. You know, deliver an eight ball or, you know, and a case of whiskey.

• 1:29:47Jody Mitic?

  But, um, you know, as time has gone by and Kelly and I are finding more positive things like HQ is happening. Like, like we call it HQ because it's headquarters for everything that we're going to do for the future. And we, we just started to, you know, we're trying to start a, a home business called Fire Team Alpha where we're Fire Team Alpha. I don't know how you guys designate in the seals, but for us in a section, you have Fire Team Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta. Uh, so we're Fire Team Alpha within the section and we want to help other couples and individuals, right? And our, our life coaching is going to involve some tactical flavor, you know, some shooting if you want, things like that, but, um,

• 1:30:30Jody Mitic?

  so, you know, like we're doing it and the closer we do it and the more steps we take, the, the like it's, I, you know, we were last night, we were driving here from LA and we were like, we were both just kind of like, remember like? Three months ago, it feels like forever ago. You know, like, remember I used to be addicted to cocaine? And she's like, what do you mean, used to be, right? Like, it's a bit of a reminder, but for me, I don't even know that guy anymore. You know, but that was just me back in December. And I like that. I like that. I was in rehab with people that have, this is their fifth time. And that scared the shit out of me.

• 1:31:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:10Jody Mitic?

  I was like, what do you mean, your fifth time? And this other guy, you know, and they're all in their twenties. And they've been to rehab three, four, five, six times. I'm like, damn, I need to figure out a way to A, never be here again. And B, help you guys never come here again. You know, so we're even setting up a system with the rehab place because it's a, it's a, it's a good place. If actually, and it takes people from America and Canada. It's called Thousand Islands Rehab. It's right on the border where they're with the St. Lawrence.

• 1:31:39Jody Mitic?

  We are working on a system where as people, because transitional housing from rehab to normal life is a bit of a problem. So we are setting up, uh, once we have the headquarters built and everything by the end of the year. By next year, we're hoping to have like three or four bunks set up where we can bring in like-minded people from rehab.

• 1:31:59Jocko Willink?

  You already have a building for HQ?

• 1:32:01Jody Mitic?

  Eh, we're really, we're working on it. We're close. We think we have something. We are, uh, I am moving to Stittsville from Orleans in Ottawa. That means going from the far east end to the far west end. We're very close. I don't want to, uh, let the cat out of the bag in case, uh, like, but the guys that are helping me are, are really guys I met in politics, actually. And they're really great guys and they see, you know, they, they've never held anything against me for what I've done. And if anything, they're, at forty-two, it kind of sucks to be starting over again.

• 1:32:36Jocko Willink?

  It's better than the alternative.

• 1:32:38Jody Mitic?

  But it's better than the alternative and you know, I could have stayed in politics and, and you know, it's a hundred and ten thousand dollars a year job, which is great and stuff. But um, I quit a job in the nineties where I was making like sixty-five grand a year in the nineties as a nineteen-year-old, putting things together for Ford, uh, making way too much money, stupid money for a nineteen-year-old because I wanted to join the army and I went from eight hundred fifty bucks a week to five twenty every two weeks and I loved it. And that's what Kelly and I are doing now. We are spiritually rich and we are, and we

• 1:33:19Jody Mitic?

  want more. We're getting greedy. We want more in fulfillment and enrichment in our lives and we just want to surround ourselves with good people.

• 1:33:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know, and you said earlier, and I held on to the thought, you said, hey, you know, you gotta take care of yourself first, but you also, and that's, that there is definite truth to that because if you don't take care of yourself, you're not gonna be able to help anyone else. But I'm telling you, and you already know, because this is what you're talking about, you can take care of yourself. Once you got yourself under control, there's no better reward in life than helping other people and moving people in the right direction and helping people find the path. So.

• 1:33:56Jody Mitic?

  Well, I mean, even through all these troubles, we talked about right before the show, the recruiting depot for the Canadian Armed Forces called me and I don't even think I was at a rehab yet, was I babe? No. And I, and like I said, I wasn't shy about what was going on and, and uh, the top shot from every platoon now, uh, going through, through our recruitment depot is gonna get the Mass Corporal Jody Mitic Top Shot Award. There's no greater honor. And I get to go and give a speech now to these troopers, these young troops as they leave, recruit, like leave, they're now soldiers. They've finished basic training.

• 1:34:39Jody Mitic?

  And I get to go and tell them like, hey, look at me. Look at what I did. And I'm a complete fuck up. But you know, it's, it's who you are on the inside. It's how you redeem yourself and it's how you look after those around you that makes you who you are. At least that's what I think. Look, and, and here I am giving you a speech less than three months after finishing rehab, or just like three months after. And you know what? Hey, as awesome as the Congressional Medal of Honor or the Victoria Cross for, for me is, having something named after me that all the new troops see and some will point out and go, I fucking want that. I want to, I want that award. That's the best, greatest honor the military probably could have bestowed on me.

• 1:35:24Jody Mitic?

  You know, to, to say, you are someone, we want our troops, our youngest, newest members to, to aspire to be like, that's, man, I got a job. I got a job. My job is to like, to, to be that guy. Yeah. And, and if, if it means you screw up, it means you own it and you dust yourself off and, and you carry on. You know, and you find a way and you, and you know what? And that's all I'm keep, gonna keep doing. That's why like, friends like you and things like this, podcasting in our generation is, is how we, how we do that. And like, again, I, I, talking about it, I, I'm trying not to get emotional because there's a Master Corporal Jody Minnick Top Shot Award.

• 1:36:06Jody Mitic?

  And it's not just at like some unit mess hall, you know, like the, what, every new recruit going through the depot is gonna see this thing. And, uh, and it's, anyway, I, I don't know what else to say. I'm speechless about it, frankly.

• 1:36:22Jocko Willink?

  Well, that's awesome. And I mean, that is, that's just, that's just an awesome honor that, that these young recruits are going to come in and they're going to, every single recruit in the Canadian Army is going to know who you are and what you represent. And part of what they're going to see of what you represent, once they, once they know your story, is they're going to realize that you're not perfect. And they're going to realize that no one's perfect. And they're going to realize that they can get control over the things that have gotten out of control. And they can move forward in a positive way and make the absolute best out of what they're doing with their life.

• 1:36:55Jody Mitic?

  Like, I don't know about you, but like, something like that puts you in a, puts me in a position to be a mentor to these people.

• 1:37:01Jocko Willink?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:37:02Jody Mitic?

  And like, same with like, my, my podcast, your pod. People come to you, I'm sure, out of the blue with lots of things. And, and it's, you know, sometimes I, you know, I stopped responding for a while because of where I was, but now I'm, I'm getting back. Like, I wear your t-shirts again, bro. Like, I don't know, do we say that? Do we say that on the, on the air? Yeah. I'm gonna, I want one of those before I leave. You know, because, um, discipline does equal freedom. And it doesn't mean you govern every moment of your day, but it means the more disciplined you are with yourself, the more free you are to be yourself. Does that make more, that's how I've always seen it.

• 1:37:40Jocko Willink?

  That's what discipline equals freedom is, man. That's what it is.

• 1:37:43Jody Mitic?

  You know, I feel like we're coming to a natural conclusion here. Maybe I'm wrong, but, thanks, man. Like, to both of you. Like, I just, I, I need people like you that, like, as I look up to you, man. Like, I know, I know, it's weird. It's weird. It should be the other way around. I know. But, I, I do, man.

• 1:38:01Jocko Willink?

  I want that Top Shot Award.

• 1:38:03Jody Mitic?

  I do. And, um, you know, you really, you really helped me a lot, you know? And, uh, and I hope I can repay the favor one day. And I, and I know you say I don't owe you, but I, I, I couldn't do, I couldn't achieve what I'm doing now without the support of people like you in my life. And Echo, of course.

• 1:38:23Jocko Willink?

  Well, you're right. You don't owe me anything. And the only thing that I would like is for you to stay on the path and keep moving forward and keep kicking ass and stay clean and keep doing what you know you're capable of doing and what you're destined to do.

• 1:38:35Jody Mitic?

  Good copy.

• 1:38:36Jocko Willink?

  Check. All right. I think that is a natural.

• 1:38:40Jody Mitic?

  Can I just give a quick shout out to War Doll?

• 1:38:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:42Jody Mitic?

  This is the War Doll t-shirt. I think it's called the Dream Catcher. He's a veteran in Canada. Go ahead, look him up and order some of his t-shirts. Help him out. A full, is it 20? I think 20% of his proceeds go to charity for veterans.

• 1:38:54Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome.

• 1:38:55Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:56Jocko Willink?

  War Doll?

• 1:38:56Jody Mitic?

  War Doll. The War Doll. He's got like a blog and he has some cool, cool swag. He's a good dude. He's a good dude.

• 1:39:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's a pretty cool looking t-shirt.

• 1:39:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I noticed it on the way in.

• 1:39:04Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I'll, I'll have him send you some.

• 1:39:06Jocko Willink?

  Check. Echo?

• 1:39:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:39:09Jocko Willink?

  You know, speaking of the path and whatnot.

• 1:39:14Jocko Willink?

  We see it's easy to slip off the path from time to time.

• 1:39:16Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:39:17Jocko Willink?

  We want to get back on the path. If we want to stay on the path, recommendations.

• 1:39:21Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:39:22Jocko Willink?

  From Echo Charles.

• 1:39:23Speaker 02

  Cool. I recommend Jiu-Jitsu. So Jiu-Jitsu as a strip, so you were talking about, um, what?

• 1:39:31Jody Mitic?

  Me starting Jiu-Jitsu, by the way.

• 1:39:32Jocko Willink?

  I like that.

• 1:39:33Speaker 02

  Good. Yeah. So relieving stress.

• 1:39:36Jocko Willink?

  You will have a good time with Jiu-Jitsu.

• 1:39:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:38Jody Mitic?

  I'm finally comfortable enough with my leg stumps that I feel like I can roll with people without feeling inadequate.

• 1:39:44Jocko Willink?

  I've rolled with, uh, quite a few people with various stumps.

• 1:39:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, stumps.

• 1:39:50Jocko Willink?

  Leg stumps, arm stumps.

• 1:39:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:53Jocko Willink?

  Um, hell, we got Jeffrey Al here. He's, he's got no hand and he chokes you with that stump. He's got a stump and he chokes you with it.

• 1:40:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:40:00Jocko Willink?

  Sticks it right into your Adam's apple.

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:40:03Jocko Willink?

  In that certain position.

• 1:40:04Speaker 02

  Part of the game, man. Yeah.

• 1:40:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he's gonna use it.

• 1:40:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's people, no hands, no legs, both.

• 1:40:10Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I'm, I'm finally able to deal with it.

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you're below the knee too, so you, you can do some good stuff.

• 1:40:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, all kinds of things can go down.

• 1:40:17Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. So, yeah, that's a good way. Stress relief, that's one of those ones that it's probably one of the biggest stress relievers there is.

• 1:40:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:25Speaker 02

  That I've had anyway. My life is very, you know, simple. Even right when you begin.

• 1:40:31Jocko Willink?

  He gets super stressed out. As we know, sometimes you got the dishwasher. You're going to go soy sauce bowls to their spot or silverware over there. That's a tough decision. You get stressed out. Luckily, you can do the jujitsu to relieve that.

• 1:40:44Speaker 02

  Anyway.

• 1:40:44Jody Mitic?

  I'd be stressed about the state of the table.

• 1:40:46Jocko Willink?

  I did two a day yesterday. I did two. I did morning jujitsu, afternoon jujitsu. Morning gi, evening no gi. Do you know what? My stress level was low. It was so low. I was so stoked.

• 1:40:57Speaker 02

  But that's, yeah, I did one yesterday and I thought noon.

• 1:41:01Jocko Willink?

  Dang, okay. Check. Avoidance.

• 1:41:04Speaker 02

  Well, you know, my evenings are less, um, how should I say, available, you know, as far as that can.

• 1:41:10Jocko Willink?

  You're working.

• 1:41:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, doing various things. Nonetheless, stress relief, jujitsu, right? Where that's like a double, maybe even a triple, actually maybe even like an endless benefit situation. Jujitsu.

• 1:41:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:25Speaker 02

  But as far as the stress.

• 1:41:26Jocko Willink?

  Physical, mental stress relief, yes.

• 1:41:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's so like prevalent.

• 1:41:31Jocko Willink?

  And you actually, you're gonna hate it at first because you're gonna get choked.

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:34Jody Mitic?

  You're gonna get arm locked by people.

• 1:41:36Jocko Willink?

  People, little, little hundred and twenty pound people are gonna choke you. They're gonna, they're gonna arm lock you and you're gonna think this is not fair.

• 1:41:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:45Jocko Willink?

  And it's not fair. They know jujitsu.

• 1:41:47Jody Mitic?

  I've been like a spectator of the community for so long. Like before I got wounded, I want, I my, my plan was to come home and actually like train and try and get a, a one MMA fight.

• 1:41:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:58Jody Mitic?

  Uh, cause in Canada, like it wasn't that big a thing before two thousand and six. And then, you know, the whole getting blown up thing.

• 1:42:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:05Jody Mitic?

  But it, I'm fully prepared for the humility that, that jujitsu brings because, uh, I need it frankly.

• 1:42:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we all do.

• 1:42:14Speaker 02

  If you look at it and since you're who you are and how you are, you're gonna, you're gonna have trouble avoiding the part that it's like, yes, this person is like beating me up and can beat me up even though they're smaller. So you're gonna, you're probably not gonna be able to avoid that element of, of regarding it.

• 1:42:30Jody Mitic?

  It's a reaction. It's a, it's a common action, reaction to what's happening.

• 1:42:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:42:35Jody Mitic?

  So as long as I train to prepare for that.

• 1:42:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:42:37Jody Mitic?

  Like if I train my mind, right?

• 1:42:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:42:39Jody Mitic?

  But it doesn't change that if Kelly chokes me out, I will feel inadequate for a while.

• 1:42:44Speaker 02

  Yes, and that's, that's, so there's that part, but.

• 1:42:46Jody Mitic?

  Or will I?

• 1:42:48Speaker 02

  Feel a little bit more.

• 1:42:51Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:52Speaker 02

  There's another part of it.

• 1:42:55Speaker 02

  No, no, no, I don't turn red, boy, I don't plus. Anyway, there's the other part of it is if you look at it as a problem solving situation. You know, like, it's like, okay, he's not beating me up. He is, by the way, but you don't think of it like that. You think, okay, this is an issue. This is a problem.

• 1:43:09Jody Mitic?

  A puzzle to solve.

• 1:43:10Speaker 02

  Yes, I gotta learn how to do that. It'll take a while, but in any puzzle situation, you know, okay, I'm not gonna learn this thing overnight. It's a huge 5,000 piece puzzle.

• 1:43:19Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 1:43:19Speaker 02

  Jiu Jitsu, it's infinite, but you know, you still look at it in that sort of way. And then you start to accept, okay, you know.

• 1:43:25Jody Mitic?

  Thing I really appeals to it, appeal that what appeals about it to me is that even practitioners like of your guys' level, like Jaco's level, or even what's his name, the guy who.

• 1:43:36Jocko Willink?

  Notice how he separated us?

• 1:43:38Jody Mitic?

  Yes. Well, Jaco's been at it, you've been at it since you were like, what, 12 or something like? What's the guy, Gracie? Even he says he learns every day, you know? And that's what I like, you know, it appeals to me because there's no true experts. I mean, there are people that will kick your ass every day, but even they have someone that could kick their ass.

• 1:43:55Jocko Willink?

  Always learning.

• 1:43:56Speaker 02

  Yes. So when you do Jiu Jitsu, Jody, Middick and Jaco,

• 1:44:02Speaker 02

  you're gonna need a gi, because you gotta do gi and no gi, you gotta do both, I think. The way to fully stay on the path.

• 1:44:09Jocko Willink?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:44:10Speaker 02

  Do both. So you need a gi, you get an origin gi. You don't gotta ask what kind of gi do I get? Now you know, origin gi, you saw the one I just got.

• 1:44:16Jody Mitic?

  You got one for me?

• 1:44:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we will.

• 1:44:21Jocko Willink?

  We'll get, we'll get one for you.

• 1:44:22Jody Mitic?

  Okay, Roger that. Her size too?

• 1:44:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:24Jody Mitic?

  Okay, we'll rock origin all day.

• 1:44:27Speaker 02

  Best gis in the world, straight up, factually. Made in America.

• 1:44:31Jocko Willink?

  I know you're from Canada, but made in America actually means a lot.

• 1:44:34Jody Mitic?

  Hey, bro, North America, we're a team.

• 1:44:36Speaker 02

  North America, yeah, hundred percent.

• 1:44:38Jocko Willink?

  You can, you can say made in North America, which is also true.

• 1:44:40Jody Mitic?

  America, America means quality to me.

• 1:44:42Jocko Willink?

  It does.

• 1:44:43Jody Mitic?

  Except for 80s cars, that's it.

• 1:44:45Jocko Willink?

  80s cars.

• 1:44:45Jody Mitic?

  But even then, you put them back together yourself and it's just a piece of pride that you can have in the driveway.

• 1:44:50Speaker 02

  You're good.

• 1:44:50Jocko Willink?

  Indeed.

• 1:44:51Speaker 02

  And these gis are no exception, by the way. So yeah, you go to originmaine.com, that's where you can get them. They got a lot of other stuff, Jiu Jitsu and just regular stuff.

• 1:45:00Jocko Willink?

  Regular life stuff.

• 1:45:01Speaker 02

  Life stuff.

• 1:45:02Jocko Willink?

  Like jeans.

• 1:45:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:45:03Jocko Willink?

  That's what I gotta get you. I gotta get you some origin jeans.

• 1:45:05Jody Mitic?

  I'm a big fan of jeans that fit right.

• 1:45:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, they're legit. And you get your supplements there.

• 1:45:11Speaker 02

  Which will keep you in the game on the path hundred percent. Oh, yeah.

• 1:45:16Jocko Willink?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:45:18Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 1:45:18Jocko Willink?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:45:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I don't really use hundred percent. Well, I do, but.

• 1:45:23Jody Mitic?

  Do you want to say ninety nine just in case?

• 1:45:25Speaker 02

  No, negative.

• 1:45:26Jocko Willink?

  No, wow, that's committing.

• 1:45:27Speaker 02

  Normally, normally, I would say ninety. Saying you know, the one percent wiggle room. I get it. Not not in this case. Actually, they've proven to be the most important supplements I've ever taken.

• 1:45:37Jody Mitic?

  Better than Jaco's?

• 1:45:38Speaker 02

  They are Jaco's, actually, now that you mention it. So Jaco Krill, super krill oil, Jaco joint warfare made in Origin Labs.

• 1:45:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:47Jody Mitic?

  Roger that.

• 1:45:48Speaker 02

  So, you know, I see, I see where you, you know.

• 1:45:51Jody Mitic?

  I can see. Okay, now, now I see.

• 1:45:53Speaker 02

  But nonetheless, they are straight up. They'll keep you in the game.

• 1:45:56Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so Discipline Go, which is a little bit of a nootropic.

• 1:46:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:02Jocko Willink?

  Boom. But Jason Gardner did his first Echelon Front gig.

• 1:46:07Speaker 02

  Nice. Dang, right in the game.

• 1:46:08Jocko Willink?

  Right in the game. And he sent me a text and he was like, I took this, I said, I took three Discipline Go. Forty two minutes out from the commencement. He goes, I was.

• 1:46:22Jody Mitic?

  And even tech, it sounded like that's in the text?

• 1:46:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, that's how Jason is.

• 1:46:26Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:46:26Jocko Willink?

  He was so, he was so fired up. But the funny thing is, he texted me earlier and he says, hey, it's seven o'clock in the morning and I was at another gig and he says, hey, can you hook me up with some Discipline Go? And I said, I'm not at my house. My wife can get you the supply.

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  I understand.

• 1:46:46Jocko Willink?

  See, this is sort of like the supply thing, right?

• 1:46:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:48Jody Mitic?

  This is like, hey, yo, you deliver, bro?

• 1:46:50Jocko Willink?

  We deliver. So he went to my house, picked up a couple, picked up enough discipline for his gig. Discipline Go. And then he hit it. So, yeah, if you feel like you might need a little something.

• 1:47:03Speaker 02

  Something.

• 1:47:04Jocko Willink?

  To clarify your thoughts.

• 1:47:07Speaker 02

  True.

• 1:47:07Jocko Willink?

  To ignite a little bit of extra brain power.

• 1:47:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:47:12Jocko Willink?

  Get yourself some Discipline Go. You can just get the regular Discipline powdered drink.

• 1:47:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:17Jocko Willink?

  The thing is, if you're going to be doing something where, let's just, let me just call it what it is. If you're gonna have to go to the bathroom.

• 1:47:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:23Jocko Willink?

  And you don't want to, like, if you're gonna go on stage and talk to people for two hours and in the middle of it, you're gonna go, hold on a second. With Bruce, by the way, I've never done, and hopefully I never will do. So that's that.

• 1:47:34Jody Mitic?

  You don't know anyone that's done that.

• 1:47:37Jocko Willink?

  I don't know. I mean, you might have just had to like go to the bathroom so bad.

• 1:47:42Speaker 02

  In the middle of a presentation. Yeah, but you don't.

• 1:47:45Jocko Willink?

  No, you don't. No, you don't. Let me put it to you. Let me. Okay. I used to before going in the field. Hydrate like crazy.

• 1:47:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:53Jocko Willink?

  And and then so you hydrate like crazy and then you get on the helicopter.

• 1:47:57Speaker 02

  And you gotta piss.

• 1:47:57Jocko Willink?

  And then you got like a forty eight minute and as soon you're getting on the helicopter, you're like, okay, I just need to go right now and you don't because someone's like, hey, come on, Will and get in here. So you get in and then you're flying and you have to go to the bathroom so bad.

• 1:48:09Speaker 02

  The whole time.

• 1:48:10Jocko Willink?

  The whole time. It like hurts.

• 1:48:11Speaker 02

  I've run off the Herc, made a hard right and just pissed.

• 1:48:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:16Speaker 02

  Like because the whole flight you just right, you just.

• 1:48:18Jocko Willink?

  So there are some times where that is really a problem. So discipline go can help you out with that.

• 1:48:25Speaker 02

  Easy money. Also milk with some additional protein going back in the gym or if you're already in the gym, whatever. Milk boom. To another two pronged effect with the milk as well. Additional protein and dessert.

• 1:48:38Jocko Willink?

  Yep. Dessert tastes delicious. Don't forget about the warrior kid milk. Which kids everywhere are basically, if you want your kid.

• 1:48:49Jocko Willink?

  To be just a complete destroyer on the mats in school in everything that they do. Get him warrior kid milk.

• 1:48:59Speaker 02

  Yep. And they'll be happy about it.

• 1:49:01Jocko Willink?

  I went off and I had to tell, uh, who was it?

• 1:49:06Jocko Willink?

  Tyler, you know Tyler, the kid from Origin? He was doing like the the Jaco in New York City little video. And I said, I was going crazy, kind of like I just did. And I was saying that if you don't give your kids. Warrior kid milk, that's child abuse.

• 1:49:27Speaker 02

  That's neglect.

• 1:49:28Jocko Willink?

  Think about this though. And now I'm being real. If you have a kid and you give your kid strawberry quick, which is literally filled with sugar and crap. Or you could give them strawberry milk, which tastes just as good, if not better, and it's a hundred percent good for the kid. How is that? Not child abuse.

• 1:49:47Speaker 02

  It is not.

• 1:49:49Jody Mitic?

  You gotta think about your choices.

• 1:49:50Jocko Willink?

  We're gonna call the uh, the uh, child protective services when we're watching. We're seeing quick getting bought, you're going down. You're gonna get in trouble, so.

• 1:49:59Jody Mitic?

  Quick or quick might have something to say about that.

• 1:50:01Jocko Willink?

  Chocolate and strawberry. Yeah, of course they do. They're, they're, they're gonna pay someone and put more money into some politician's pocket to come after me because we're trying to make kids stronger. Bring it on, world. Bring it on.

• 1:50:15Jocko Willink?

  So that's that.

• 1:50:16Speaker 02

  Yes, it is. Also, Jaco's store, it's called Jaco's store. And this is where we get our apparel. If you wanna represent while you're on the path, it's good. We've got some new stuff on there. Lightweight hoodies. What do you, what do you say? What do you?

• 1:50:31Jocko Willink?

  Brady, did you see Brady's vote? And Brady just said, Brady didn't even say heavyweight hoodies. He said standard hoodies. Which I don't even want a standard hoodie. I want a heavyweight. I want a Canadian level hoodie.

• 1:50:43Speaker 02

  You don't even like.

• 1:50:43Jocko Willink?

  You know what I'm saying? No, I don't like standard.

• 1:50:46Jody Mitic?

  Kind of, kind of, it's too easy to be average.

• 1:50:48Speaker 02

  Standard. Well, okay, Brady, I respect it. I respect his opinion.

• 1:50:53Jocko Willink?

  That wasn't just his opinion. That was the opinion of a vote, a Twitter vote.

• 1:50:57Speaker 02

  Oh, like one of those polls? I get it.

• 1:51:00Jocko Willink?

  And it was sixty forty in favor of standard. If he would have had heavyweight on there, it could have been a whole scenario.

• 1:51:06Speaker 02

  Well, good news is we already have standard hoodies.

• 1:51:09Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:51:09Speaker 02

  And that's a good thing. We have lightweight hoodies. Jody Minnick, what about you? Lightweight hoodies, yea or nay? Just in general, don't.

• 1:51:16Jody Mitic?

  It says lightweight, though.

• 1:51:17Jocko Willink?

  He doesn't even like that.

• 1:51:19Jody Mitic?

  I want a hoodie. I want just a hoodie.

• 1:51:21Jocko Willink?

  Why are you getting a hoodie? If you're not cold.

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  Because people in the world exist with different, uh, how should I say? Different thresholds, different uh, takes on the hoodie situation rather than you and apparently.

• 1:51:35Jody Mitic?

  No, I, I rock a, a thin, like a thin material hoodie.

• 1:51:40Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay, that's.

• 1:51:41Jody Mitic?

  Underneath my vest.

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what.

• 1:51:43Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so you're in support. You're over with Echo then?

• 1:51:45Jody Mitic?

  No, no, but I have another, I have thicker.

• 1:51:48Jocko Willink?

  That's cool.

• 1:51:48Speaker 02

  Wait, he just said you're with me and you just said, no, no, so you're not with me.

• 1:51:52Jody Mitic?

  I'm with myself here. This is, I got, I have several layers of hoodie.

• 1:51:57Speaker 02

  Okay, good.

• 1:51:57Jody Mitic?

  Is what I'm saying. I have very thick for cold, extreme weather, and I have very thin for, you know, like California.

• 1:52:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:04Speaker 02

  See, Jody is with me.

• 1:52:06Jody Mitic?

  But I did never call it lightweight.

• 1:52:08Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, okay. You know what I think?

• 1:52:10Jody Mitic?

  I just call it a hoodie.

• 1:52:12Speaker 02

  It's like a shirt material, maybe slightly thicker.

• 1:52:15Jody Mitic?

  You know what? Lightweight is a classification for warmth. Okay, so maybe call it a temperate.

• 1:52:20Speaker 02

  Temperate.

• 1:52:21Jody Mitic?

  Temperate.

• 1:52:22Speaker 02

  It's a working title, you know, but they are.

• 1:52:25Jody Mitic?

  Arid, arid weather.

• 1:52:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yes, for sure. You used to say this thing when um like in the pipe or incoming. That's what you'd say. Incoming. So lightweight, temperate, hoodies, whichever incoming to little. Anyway, some other new stuff on there. Anyway, it's on jocko store.com. Also, you can get more rash guards. You really want to represent.

• 1:52:46Jody Mitic?

  So just to help out, like a layman, a grass guard is to avoid getting like dragged across the mats and other people's skin, right? And getting your skin.

• 1:52:55Jocko Willink?

  That's part of it. But part of it is also you're just wearing it because if you and I are grappling, my fingers and toes and hands could get caught in your clothes and it's a little bit of a pain.

• 1:53:05Jody Mitic?

  Roger that.

• 1:53:06Speaker 02

  And it's better with the sweat situation. Like if you're wearing this shirt, which is cool, by the way. Uh, if you're wearing that that shirt and you sweat all in it, you did 10 rounds, you know, and you're sweating all it's that's like splashing everywhere. You know, it's everything. The rash guard is like.

• 1:53:20Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, because it can become a very abrasive uh when it's wet as we knew.

• 1:53:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, or some people wear it underneath the gi, some people.

• 1:53:28Jody Mitic?

  Roger.

• 1:53:29Speaker 02

  So, you know, if you're training gi twice a day for weeks.

• 1:53:31Jody Mitic?

  So rash guards are a must for training jiu jitsu. Maybe once I get to know what I'm doing.

• 1:53:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, they're not a must, but they're a nice to have.

• 1:53:40Speaker 02

  They're cool. Yeah, yeah, very good. I prefer big time. Unless we have them, we have some. Represent the path big time in your jiu jitsu or whatever else you're doing, cycling, running, whatever. Some women's stuff on there, some hats on there, both flex fit and trucker hats.

• 1:53:57Jocko Willink?

  Jody, flex under trucker hat.

• 1:53:59Jody Mitic?

  Oh, I'm a big fan of the trucker hat.

• 1:54:01Jocko Willink?

  There you go.

• 1:54:02Jody Mitic?

  Because it gives me the ventilation.

• 1:54:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, see, you like that echo?

• 1:54:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like that. And we offer that, by the way.

• 1:54:08Jody Mitic?

  But a flex fit in the winter. See, we have winter in Canada, so flex fit keeps the heat in. Trucker cap in the because it's very humid in Ontario.

• 1:54:16Speaker 02

  Well, we have beanies too, just speaking of winter.

• 1:54:18Jody Mitic?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:54:19Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:54:20Jody Mitic?

  We call it a tuque.

• 1:54:22Speaker 02

  Touk.

• 1:54:22Jody Mitic?

  We call it a touk in Canada.

• 1:54:23Speaker 02

  Is that the one with the?

• 1:54:25Jody Mitic?

  No, well, yeah, yeah, or just anything that goes on your head that looks like a knitted cap.

• 1:54:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:30Jody Mitic?

  As it's called in the army field manual.

• 1:54:33Speaker 02

  A touk. Yeah, we have that.

• 1:54:35Jody Mitic?

  And get your touk, eh?

• 1:54:36Speaker 02

  I'm impartial. I don't wear nothing. I don't wear hats anymore.

• 1:54:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:54:40Speaker 02

  As much.

• 1:54:41Jody Mitic?

  You don't have to. You have a beautiful, perfectly round head, I guess. I'm I'm always hiding my hair. When I have hair, when I have hair.

• 1:54:49Speaker 02

  Easy money.

• 1:54:50Jody Mitic?

  Cause I get it gets curly and then it gets like really hard to manage.

• 1:54:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, very, very unmanageable.

• 1:54:55Jody Mitic?

  Actually, there's a picture up on my Instagram, if you know, if you followed Jody on Instagram.

• 1:54:59Speaker 02

  Sure, sure.

• 1:55:01Jody Mitic?

  Of me at sixteen, looking all kinds of roughneck with my hair. I'm about this, I'm about this thick and my hair is just a goddamn disaster. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful to see.

• 1:55:13Jocko Willink?

  A wild mane of Jody Medicare.

• 1:55:15Jody Mitic?

  My favorite actor was Mel Gibson at the time. I'm just gonna say that.

• 1:55:18Speaker 02

  I respect that. Big time. Nonetheless, good stuff on there. If you jocko store dot com, that's where you get it. If you like something, get something. Also, Jocko White Tea. Jocko White.

• 1:55:29Jody Mitic?

  I've yet to try Jocko White Tea.

• 1:55:30Speaker 02

  It's really too bad because I got some right here and I've been trying it all day.

• 1:55:34Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. Oh, Jocko.

• 1:55:36Speaker 02

  Nonetheless, yes.

• 1:55:37Jody Mitic?

  After the show.

• 1:55:38Speaker 02

  And one of the many benefits, if you don't know already, which I know you already do, you can deadlift eight thousand pounds. There was a guy, he just deadlifted a bunch of weight recently, right in the Rogue situation.

• 1:55:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:49Jocko Willink?

  A lot of people are worried if they're competing in powerlifting.

• 1:55:52Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 1:55:53Jocko Willink?

  And they, and yeah, will you get tested for Jocko White Tea? If you, and they're already automatically gonna know you're taking Jocko White Tea if you did.

• 1:56:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's kind of the test.

• 1:56:03Jocko Willink?

  Kind of the test. So you gotta be careful. Keep it at seven, seven thousand five hundred in the tournament.

• 1:56:08Speaker 02

  Gotta send back a little bit.

• 1:56:09Jocko Willink?

  In the, in the competition.

• 1:56:11Speaker 02

  But other benefits are certified USDA organic.

• 1:56:17Jocko Willink?

  Think about that. You could drink a normal energy drink and become less healthy.

• 1:56:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:24Jocko Willink?

  Or you could drink Jocko White Tea and you could become more healthy.

• 1:56:27Speaker 02

  More healthy, yes.

• 1:56:28Jocko Willink?

  That's, is that a hard choice to make?

• 1:56:30Speaker 02

  I don't think so, no.

• 1:56:31Jocko Willink?

  It's not even a hard choice to make. Drink what's gonna make you more healthy. Also, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't subscribed to the podcast yet. First of all. You have issues because there's been, this is 169 and I used to think that everyone had subscribed at this point, but it was actually Echo Charles that proved me wrong because somebody tweeted like, no, I just subscribed for the first time. So if you haven't subscribed, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, whatever. Leave some reviews. I was reading reviews. I always review the reviews is what I do.

• 1:57:00Jody Mitic?

  It's healthy. It's healthy to review your reviews.

• 1:57:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay. All right.

• 1:57:05Jocko Willink?

  And then don't forget about the Warrior Kid Podcast as well.

• 1:57:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's not.

• 1:57:11Jocko Willink?

  The best kids podcast that has ever been. Does anyone disagree with that?

• 1:57:17Jody Mitic?

  I didn't even know there was a kids qualification or category.

• 1:57:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, Warrior Kid Podcast, family and children and family or something was like is the category that it's under and.

• 1:57:26Jody Mitic?

  I'm sorry. I did not know you had that.

• 1:57:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the Warrior Kid Podcast.

• 1:57:29Jody Mitic?

  That's how unplugged I became from the world.

• 1:57:30Jocko Willink?

  The Warrior Kid Podcast, which I haven't put out as many as I should, but there's a reason for that. It's like, there's a lot that goes in. I know it might not seem like it, but there's a lot that I put into those. I fought.

• 1:57:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's kind of my fault. I feel like I haven't done what, all that I could have been doing to, you know, help make it happen.

• 1:57:53Jocko Willink?

  I gotta work harder. That's what needs to happen. So there's that. And don't forget about the Warrior Kid Soap, which we have some good new samples. You can get the Jocko Soap. You can get the Trooper Soap.

• 1:58:03Jody Mitic?

  It's nice.

• 1:58:04Jocko Willink?

  Has the rope you can hang it on, soap on a rope.

• 1:58:08Jocko Willink?

  Irish, Irish Oaks Rants.

• 1:58:09Jody Mitic?

  Soap on a rope is super useful.

• 1:58:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it has a real purpose.

• 1:58:13Jody Mitic?

  You know that, right?

• 1:58:14Speaker 02

  Well, here's the thing.

• 1:58:14Jody Mitic?

  We used to make it in school.

• 1:58:16Speaker 02

  Well, I never knew about that. I'm quiet here, you know, soap on a rope and like I'll be like, oh, that sounds cute. You know, and then when I say, oh, soap is actually on a rope.

• 1:58:23Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, it's super useful having a rope.

• 1:58:26Speaker 02

  It's just kind of.

• 1:58:26Jody Mitic?

  You never drop a bar of soap again.

• 1:58:29Jocko Willink?

  You're good to go. So that's Aiden.

• 1:58:32Jody Mitic?

  It's a big problem. I'm always like.

• 1:58:33Jocko Willink?

  Kid.

• 1:58:34Jody Mitic?

  Bar of soap.

• 1:58:36Jocko Willink?

  And that way you can stay clean. Don't forget about YouTube. If you want to see, if you want to see Echo's. What he considers to be his legit videos.

• 1:58:45Speaker 02

  I never considered using that word.

• 1:58:47Jocko Willink?

  Then you can see him there because he thinks his videos are worth using. I actually kind of agree with that. Kind of.

• 1:58:52Jody Mitic?

  Echo's got some, he's good at the editing.

• 1:58:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Either that or he just really does a lot of, of editing and, and makes it so you notice it. Cause wouldn't it be a better editor that would make it so like seamless that you would just not even realize? You just feel it. You wouldn't notice it.

• 1:59:09Speaker 02

  Yes, you're, you're actually right.

• 1:59:11Jody Mitic?

  Okay.

• 1:59:11Speaker 02

  No, yeah, you're right. When I do make those videos, if they're good, not good, whatever, when I do make them, I make them for myself. For sure.

• 1:59:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:19Speaker 02

  I'll put like sound effects like, I shouldn't put sound effects while you're talking.

• 1:59:23Jocko Willink?

  But you do it anyways.

• 1:59:24Speaker 02

  Like I can see music because music kind of enhances.

• 1:59:27Jocko Willink?

  What about explosions?

• 1:59:28Speaker 02

  But what, yeah, what about crackling? Like why, how does that enhance the message? You know what it enhances? My effects that I put on, you see what I'm saying?

• 1:59:35Jody Mitic?

  It keeps you interested in what you're doing.

• 1:59:37Speaker 02

  It makes it interesting in the, in the video. So yes, you are correct.

• 1:59:41Jocko Willink?

  Psychological Warfare, that's an album that you can listen to if you need a little help.

• 1:59:46Jody Mitic?

  I gotta.

• 1:59:46Jocko Willink?

  In a moment of weakness.

• 1:59:47Jody Mitic?

  It actually, I've been, I listen to it a lot in the last three months.

• 1:59:50Jocko Willink?

  I'd like to hear that.

• 1:59:51Speaker 02

  Hey, back to your thing where you, where you were saying earlier where you couldn't look at the shirt.

• 1:59:56Jody Mitic?

  I couldn't wear it.

• 1:59:57Speaker 02

  I couldn't wear it. I couldn't look. Brad, that was, I mentioned this before where I, I mentioned the opposite though. It's like when you put it on, you can't skip a workout now. You can't slack. It's the same concept.

• 2:00:08Jody Mitic?

  You walk straighter.

• 2:00:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:09Jody Mitic?

  You have a little bit more purpose in the look in your eye.

• 2:00:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:12Jody Mitic?

  But like, I didn't wear Jaco's. I didn't wear any of the veteran T-shirt companies. Like I just, I, anyway.

• 2:00:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. When you put it on, you gotta, like you gotta.

• 2:00:20Jody Mitic?

  I, I walked out of rehab wearing your shirt.

• 2:00:23Jocko Willink?

  I like that.

• 2:00:24Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. And it's just, you know, and this is going to sound a little corny, but it's kind of just weird having one of your friends pep talk you out of bed. I gotta go ahead and say that. Like, you know, putting on, putting on your.

• 2:00:34Jocko Willink?

  Psychological Warfare album.

• 2:00:34Jody Mitic?

  Psychological Warfare album on repeat and it's like somebody you hang with. It's just kind of like, I get it Jaco, I'm a, I, I need to work harder. Okay. Like I texted you yesterday, like I get up at six. It's not Jaco timing, but it's the best I can do right now.

• 2:00:50Jocko Willink?

  You know what's really weird is when I have to listen to psychological. Warfare myself.

• 2:00:53Speaker 02

  That would be the most weird I think.

• 2:00:54Jocko Willink?

  That is the weirdest thing.

• 2:00:55Speaker 02

  Or the most normal.

• 2:00:56Jody Mitic?

  Cause it's kinda like. Or it's the most amazing thing ever.

• 2:00:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. Maybe it'd be the spouse situation.

• 2:01:02Jocko Willink?

  Actually, that's a good idea. If you are a person that's trying to do something, it'd be good to cut yourself a couple of tracks to explain to yourself why you're trying to do this thing. So when the moment of weakness comes, you could listen to me, sure, but you could actually listen to yourself.

• 2:01:16Jody Mitic?

  Actually, that's a, that's a great idea.

• 2:01:18Speaker 02

  I've heard of people doing that with like.

• 2:01:20Jody Mitic?

  Write that down.

• 2:01:21Speaker 02

  Like it's this is my presence or this is my future self. It's like, I've heard of people doing that. They'll be like, okay, I know that I'm gonna be slacking on whatever. And I forget exactly what it's for, but they'll be like, they'll put an audio note and they'll say, this is your, uh, past self or whatever saying to you.

• 2:01:38Jody Mitic?

  Future echo, listen closely.

• 2:01:39Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly right. Saying, hey, this is what you're thinking right now. This is what you're feeling right now. Don't do it. Take, you know, it's like you're talking to yourself. I've heard of that.

• 2:01:46Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, Kelly and I have a thing where we go, that sounds like a problem for future Jody and Kelly to do.

• 2:01:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 2:01:50Jody Mitic?

  We gotta do the opposite.

• 2:01:51Speaker 02

  You can communicate with that guy.

• 2:01:53Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, be like, you dealt with that future Jody Kelly, didn't you? I like that. I joggo, we're gonna try that. We'll let you know how it works.

• 2:02:00Jocko Willink?

  I like it.

• 2:02:00Speaker 02

  I'll tell you right now, I, it sounds good in theory, but I'm all like disobey myself way quicker than I'll disobey you.

• 2:02:08Jocko Willink?

  Well, that's a good point.

• 2:02:09Speaker 02

  And I think a lot of people like that. That's why I think it's so effective.

• 2:02:11Jocko Willink?

  Both sides of the coin.

• 2:02:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:13Jocko Willink?

  Cause eventually you'd be like, I'm not listening to Jaco.

• 2:02:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't have to.

• 2:02:15Jocko Willink?

  He's just some guy. Yo, he's, he's, he's crazy.

• 2:02:21Jocko Willink?

  Right? But then if it's yourself telling you that.

• 2:02:23Speaker 02

  No escape.

• 2:02:24Jocko Willink?

  If it's, if it's a, a goal that you set for yourself, it's not my goal. It's a goal you set for yourself.

• 2:02:29Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 2:02:30Jody Mitic?

  I, I'm my own worst critic. So I don't know. I think. No, you're right. Breaking a promise to yourself is way easier.

• 2:02:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cause you kind of might be used to that or.

• 2:02:38Jody Mitic?

  It's weird.

• 2:02:39Jocko Willink?

  I think you'd use both. Also check out, uh, flipsidecanvas.com. This is Dakota Meyer from Podcast 115.

• 2:02:51Jocko Willink?

  And he's selling basically badass prints. Is that what you call them?

• 2:02:56Speaker 02

  I would call them prints, yeah.

• 2:02:57Jocko Willink?

  Prints. You can get

• 2:02:59Speaker 02

  Prints of what?

• 2:02:59Jocko Willink?

  Really cool stuff.

• 2:03:00Speaker 02

  Various artwork.

• 2:03:02Jocko Willink?

  You know.

• 2:03:02Speaker 02

  Like movie scenes, things like that?

• 2:03:03Jocko Willink?

  No, like, there's a couple of them sitting over there. Good. You can get one. He made. You can get all of this.

• 2:03:09Speaker 02

  So he's making that stuff?

• 2:03:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Discipline equals freedom. So, yeah, if you wanna support.

• 2:03:14Speaker 02

  What's the guy website?

• 2:03:14Jocko Willink?

  It's called flipsidecanvas.com. And actually, the reason it's called flipside is because of one of the last things one of his bros said to him before they went into that battle was, I'll see you on the flip side. That's what the story is behind that.

• 2:03:25Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 2:03:26Jocko Willink?

  So, support Dakota. He's the man. And check it out. You can also get these, uh, these, well, they're kind of reminders to you that you can just hang up.

• 2:03:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:36Jocko Willink?

  And get reminded.

• 2:03:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:03:38Jocko Willink?

  Cause we, cause we need to get reminded, whether it's psychological warfare, whether it's a, a print, keep yourself on the path. Whether it's a t-shirt, keep yourself on the path.

• 2:03:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:47Jocko Willink?

  These things have an impact.

• 2:03:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, and those reminders are actually way more like powerful. But they're more powerful than you might think because think about like even like with drinking or something like this where if you have like a planned day tomorrow where it has no room for drinking that day.

• 2:04:06Jocko Willink?

  Exactly.

• 2:04:07Speaker 02

  No room for drinking the night before or that day. If you have it all planned out, you're probably, you'll drink, your likelihood to drink way less. But if you don't, it's almost like you sort of forget to stay focused on what you have to do, you know?

• 2:04:20Jocko Willink?

  Discipline equals freedom.

• 2:04:21Speaker 02

  Almost like a way of forgetting.

• 2:04:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Discipline equals freedom.

• 2:04:23Speaker 02

  That's why if you have a planned day, like you get more done rather than, because you, you fall susceptible to like, what do I feel like doing? You know, you're led more with what you feel and don't.

• 2:04:31Jody Mitic?

  The weird thing is when you're dealing with addiction, that's when you screw up the most. The day that you have the big presentation, the big meeting, that night before is when you will.

• 2:04:42Jocko Willink?

  Is that like self sabotage or something?

• 2:04:44Jody Mitic?

  It's a hundred percent self sabotage.

• 2:04:46Jocko Willink?

  Dang. Cause you want to get caught because you know you're doing the wrong thing.

• 2:04:49Jody Mitic?

  You know what? A lot of my behavior over the last two, for the last two years was like, I hope someone, I think psych a lot or subconscious was like, yeah. Somebody like, cause it became my actions became almost arrogant, like in my boldness. Anyway, we're done with all that. Let's, let's finish the commercials.

• 2:05:07Speaker 02

  These are more like announcements, tips to stay in the past.

• 2:05:10Jody Mitic?

  This is the Jaco Willing podcast. He can do whatever he wants.

• 2:05:13Speaker 02

  True. It's true. So home gym, right? We're doing home gym. You go to on it.com. This is where you get your kettlebells.

• 2:05:19Jody Mitic?

  Rings. I have all the monkey bells that they put out. Five years ago, remember those?

• 2:05:24Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I got them too.

• 2:05:26Jody Mitic?

  I got the mace, the quad mace.

• 2:05:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you have like a regular routine with the mace?

• 2:05:33Jody Mitic?

  I had one.

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I, man.

• 2:05:35Jody Mitic?

  I actually jacked, I actually jacked my elbows because of all, like all the shooting I did as a sniper. So I had to build up my inner, like, cause what's in the inside, it's the golfer's elbow, right? This is tennis. This is golf. Anyway, I had to build up the tendons and then I could swing the mace.

• 2:05:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. See, and that's what I'm saying. You try to do a little routine. If you're not used to that, bro, you'll feel all those little weirdo muscles that you're not, you know.

• 2:05:58Jocko Willink?

  One of my buddies sold the house here in San Diego and he sends me a text. He's out of town. You know, he's in the dabs and he goes, he goes, hey, man, sold the house. Escrow closes tomorrow. It's done. I got a tire there and some other like bumper plates, whatever. If you want to go grab it, I'm not, I'm not taking it. So if you want to get it, otherwise I gotta get it moved by someone. So it was a little bit of a, you know, good deal for him, good deal for me. It's been raining here in Southern California. Anyways, I show up to the house and you know, I, I was pretty psyched to get a tire, you know?

• 2:06:28Jody Mitic?

  We're talking about a big tractor tire.

• 2:06:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Big tractor tire. But I was thinking like a big tractor tire that, you know, you could, you know, easily throw in a vehicle or something like that. This thing was like freaking massive.

• 2:06:40Jody Mitic?

  So like some like the big foot would be.

• 2:06:42Jocko Willink?

  It's huge. It's huge. It's absolutely huge. I barely got it. And you know, my giant van, I barely, literally barely got into the most.

• 2:06:52Jocko Willink?

  The biggest van you a human can buy. I barely got it in there. After and it's and it was all filled with water. I had to get a cup and scoop all the water up. And then I'm wearing my flip flops. I'm it was a nightmare. So to my buddy that uh, then you know who you are. I got your tire. It's in my backyard. I'm psyched now, of course, because now I got a cool tire.

• 2:07:09Speaker 02

  Dang, yeah.

• 2:07:10Jocko Willink?

  I I also was like, one of those things like, oh, you know, I've got a call in like thirty minutes. I'll just drive over there, grab it real quick. No, I was out there barely making it back.

• 2:07:20Speaker 02

  But you made it.

• 2:07:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I made it.

• 2:07:22Speaker 02

  So don't underestimate underestimate the tire. That's the the deal.

• 2:07:26Jocko Willink?

  You know, clarify the tire. Oh, you got a tire? Yes, you need a moving truck to move it. Okay, give me a heads up next time.

• 2:07:32Speaker 02

  You figure tractor tire, tractor tire.

• 2:07:35Jocko Willink?

  You said a tire.

• 2:07:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that there there's a little.

• 2:07:38Jocko Willink?

  It's as tall, it's not, it's as tall as me. It's not as tall as me, but it's big.

• 2:07:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, like the one here.

• 2:07:43Jocko Willink?

  No, no, that's what I was expecting.

• 2:07:47Jocko Willink?

  At our gym here, you know, Victory Gym, we know we got a night, we got some tires. We got three or four of them. This thing is bigger than all of them, but a lot bigger.

• 2:07:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, you you got jammed up then.

• 2:07:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but you know, hey, he hooked me up.

• 2:07:58Jody Mitic?

  He was probably vague on purpose.

• 2:08:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, he knows I'm fired up, right? Most people think Jocko won't ask.

• 2:08:05Speaker 02

  Tire. It was an estimation.

• 2:08:06Jody Mitic?

  Jocko won't ask. I know he won't ask. I can't wait for him to go get that tire.

• 2:08:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, nonetheless, so tires or otherwise. Home gym, boom, like I said, kettlebells, rings, jump rope. That's a big one, too. Don't forget the jump rope.

• 2:08:20Jocko Willink?

  Don't forget the jump rope.

• 2:08:21Speaker 02

  Lot of cool stuff on there.

• 2:08:22Jocko Willink?

  Good work.

• 2:08:23Jody Mitic?

  If you have feet.

• 2:08:24Speaker 02

  If you have, I mean, if if you can jump rope.

• 2:08:25Jocko Willink?

  Have you jumped rope? Can you jump rope?

• 2:08:27Jody Mitic?

  No, I've tried.

• 2:08:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:29Speaker 02

  There's a guy though on on Instagram.

• 2:08:31Jocko Willink?

  Ankles and calves, right?

• 2:08:32Jody Mitic?

  Uh, I think his name is Mad Matt on Instagram. He's a double below knee. I believe he's American Army. Anyway. He jumps rope, but he has like some pathetic I haven't seen before, so I'm gonna try and get my hands on some of those.

• 2:08:44Jocko Willink?

  I like it. Jump rope is awesome.

• 2:08:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, unless you get them at onit.com slash Jock.

• 2:08:50Jocko Willink?

  We got some books. Jody's got two books. The first book, which I covered on Podcast Twenty Four, is called Unflinching. You can read, you should, you should definitely read it. It's an awesome book.

• 2:09:00Jody Mitic?

  Thanks, man.

• 2:09:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it shows the path, the. Journey that Jody's been on and now you know the rest of the journey. Can hear the rest of the journey. And he also wrote another book called Everyday Heroes.

• 2:09:11Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:11Jocko Willink?

  Which is

• 2:09:12Jody Mitic?

  So that's about, um, I've, cause in Canada, the military book genre is not as well received, let's say. So, uh, my publisher realized there was an audience when my book hit the bestseller list. In Canada though, I mean, there's less people in Canada, all of Canada than there are in California. So it's like, my kids aren't going to Ivy League schools or anything. Uh, but so they want, so I wanted to do a book that would let other soldiers tell their story. And I'm hoping to make a series out of it. Like it's, it's, it's a book that I think I could do every year and never run out of material. Uh, so pick it up. Everyday Heroes, it's available every Amazon and, and anywhere. But some good old boys from World War II in Korea, right up to Afghanistan.

• 2:09:56Jody Mitic?

  One of my favorite stories is this guy Bruno. Uh, he disarms a suicide bomber while the guy has his fingers on the trigger.

• 2:10:03Jocko Willink?

  Dish.

• 2:10:04Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. The ball, like balls, the size of like kettlebells.

• 2:10:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:07Jody Mitic?

  Like, so anyway, and he's a pretty good, cool dude. He's, he's out there somewhere doing the, during, doing the good fight, but.

• 2:10:13Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome. Yeah. So pick those books up. You can also get Mikey and the Dragons. Best children's book.

• 2:10:21Jody Mitic?

  In the world.

• 2:10:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Mikey and the Dragons.

• 2:10:23Jody Mitic?

  Well, you know.

• 2:10:24Jocko Willink?

  Mikey and the Dragons, you can pick that one up. You can pick up Way of the Warrior Kid. Way of the Warrior Kid 2, which is called Mark's Mission. Jody, how does your daughter like Way of the Warrior Kid?

• 2:10:33Jody Mitic?

  Uh, in her words, it's the greatest book she's ever read. And she's 10.

• 2:10:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:39Jody Mitic?

  And she's a girl and she's Canadian and she's my daughter and I can't get her to do, like even jujitsu is an argument. I'm like, you're doing jujitsu and I start and she's like, no, I don't want to. But for some reason that book, and it sat on her shelf for a couple of months.

• 2:10:52Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 2:10:53Jody Mitic?

  But man, when she read it, she said, this is, I didn't, she didn't tell me she's reading it. But she said, your friend wrote the greatest book I've ever read. She did a book report on it for school and everything.

• 2:11:01Jocko Willink?

  That is awesome. Yeah. I, I think it's one of those things. You don't want to force your kid to read it. You just put it there. You just kind of put it out there and let them read it, just like any leadership position. You don't want to force things down someone's throat. You just make available to them the path. And when they see it, they get on it and there's going to be a new Warrior Kid book coming out in the spring. I'll let you know when it's available for pre-order.

• 2:11:25Jocko Willink?

  The big pre-orders. The name of that, the subtitle of that book is where there's a will. So you got that one coming. You got the discipline equals freedom field manual. If you need to, it's another little reminder for life. It's another thing that'll keep you on the path. It keeps me on the path. Just have that book sitting on, one of my friends that uh, is at a hedge fund. And in their, in their, you know, it's like a really cool looking, you know, hedge funds, they're New York City, all cool, all.

• 2:11:52Speaker 02

  Wolf of Wall Street type stuff.

• 2:11:54Jocko Willink?

  What, what's the, yeah, sleek. That's the modern thing. They're very sleek. And he shows me a picture of like their, their, when you walk in and you, when you walk into a hedge fund, you wanna, they wanna leave an impression.

• 2:12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:12:04Jocko Willink?

  That they know what's up.

• 2:12:05Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:12:06Jocko Willink?

  There's a, this big white table. What's on the white table?

• 2:12:10Speaker 02

  The field.

• 2:12:11Jocko Willink?

  The field, baby. One book, just sitting there. And he says, everyone that comes in picks it up and goes, what is this thing? This is awesome. So.

• 2:12:19Speaker 02

  Bro, it's perfect to be the only book to uh, aesthetically, see what I'm saying? Especially if it's a white table or a black table.

• 2:12:24Jocko Willink?

  Goes with everything.

• 2:12:25Speaker 02

  Or a gray table.

• 2:12:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, like it, it goes with everything.

• 2:12:28Speaker 02

  Very nice.

• 2:12:28Jocko Willink?

  So get that book for yourself, for anyone that wants to get after it more. Or continually, extreme ownership, we talked about that a bit today. The lessons we learned in combat and how you can apply them to your business, to your team, to your family, to your life. Also the dichotomy of leadership, which is now starting to creep out from its older brother's shadow. Cause extreme ownership, everyone knows it, everyone loves it.

• 2:12:55Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:12:56Jocko Willink?

  But they're like, oh dichotomy out, we don't know about your little brother. It's kinda like you, Echo. You're, you're Jade's little brother, right?

• 2:13:02Speaker 02

  Yep, sure. Yep.

• 2:13:03Jocko Willink?

  And you know, it was kinda like, oh Jade was kinda the guy, right?

• 2:13:06Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:13:07Jocko Willink?

  Came first. You're just the Echo. Right? And Jade was, Jade, Jade was bigger than you, right?

• 2:13:16Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, he was.

• 2:13:17Jocko Willink?

  Who's bigger now? You see what I'm saying? So dichotomy of leadership is like the Echo Charles of the Jade Charles.

• 2:13:23Jody Mitic?

  Oh.

• 2:13:24Jocko Willink?

  Family.

• 2:13:24Jody Mitic?

  You know what's funny about that, on that thread, like, uh, before my Jody Medick podcast, episode one, when we were coming to meet you, when I was coming, we debated, Luke and I debated if Echo, like I, I say, I can't wait to find out what Echo Charles' real name is. And Luke says, I hope it's Echo Charles. Because I just thought it was, remember we talked about this? Alpha Bravo Charlie, right? And then when I asked you and you're like, no, my name, my name's Echo. And why, what's Charles mean? And you're like, it's my last name.

• 2:13:53Speaker 02

  It's, it's last name.

• 2:13:55Jody Mitic?

  I, I was just re-listening to the shows, my shows the other day and I was like, I was like, oh yeah, I can't wait to talk to Echo about like how I thought for sure your real name was like, was like, like Ernie or something. And he called you Echo, cause it's cooler. And it starts with an E.

• 2:14:09Jocko Willink?

  We didn't want no Ernie on the podcast here.

• 2:14:11Speaker 02

  Well, kinda like how you did with Task Unit Bruiser. You did that exact thing.

• 2:14:14Jocko Willink?

  And maybe if your name was like Ernie, I would have had to change.

• 2:14:18Jody Mitic?

  I'm just saying, instead of Ernie, it's Echo. Echo just sounds cooler. And then Charles was like, because like maybe your real name was Charlie or something. I don't know.

• 2:14:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I dig it. Well, with these books, good news, by the way, books, speaking of books. All these, you can, you can get Everyday Heroes, all these books on jockopodcast.com.

• 2:14:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:36Speaker 02

  I got them organized even.

• 2:14:37Jocko Willink?

  There's a list of books.

• 2:14:38Speaker 02

  All of them.

• 2:14:39Jocko Willink?

  And you can get the dichotomy of leadership there as well. And extreme, all these books.

• 2:14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got them listed on a page.

• 2:14:44Jocko Willink?

  Every book we've covered.

• 2:14:46Speaker 02

  Podcast, yep.

• 2:14:46Jocko Willink?

  You haven't got Everyday Heroes on there. You do now.

• 2:14:49Speaker 02

  No, I think I did for that original.

• 2:14:51Jody Mitic?

  Wait, my book was on your website?

• 2:14:53Speaker 02

  I think when.

• 2:14:55Jocko Willink?

  Not the original one, that one wasn't, yeah, Unflinching is for sure.

• 2:14:58Jody Mitic?

  It is. Oh, thanks, man. I didn't realize that.

• 2:15:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. Every book that we've done is on, is on.

• 2:15:03Jody Mitic?

  Thanks, guys.

• 2:15:04Jocko Willink?

  jockopodcast.com, by episode.

• 2:15:06Jody Mitic?

  That's probably why it's still selling.

• 2:15:08Speaker 02

  It's still selling.

• 2:15:09Jody Mitic?

  It's still selling. That's what I mean.

• 2:15:10Jocko Willink?

  Well, the weird thing you gotta remember is that the lag time on the podcast is there's some, there's, there's, there's many, many people.

• 2:15:18Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:18Jocko Willink?

  That start with episode one today.

• 2:15:20Jody Mitic?

  No, bro, that's what I mean. When I say I get a message like weekly, minimum one a week, it's, I just heard you on Jaco.

• 2:15:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:27Jody Mitic?

  And then I go, like, I, I resist the urge to say, oh, if you heard me on episode, what is it? Twenty four, twenty five?

• 2:15:33Jocko Willink?

  Two, yeah, twenty four, twenty five.

• 2:15:34Jody Mitic?

  Uh, wait till one eleven or, and then, you know, because I want them to discover it on their own.

• 2:15:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. No, that's one of the coolest things is people, and people ask me, where should I start on the podcast? And I say, one.

• 2:15:46Jody Mitic?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:15:47Jocko Willink?

  And they definitely build on each other, but they're also timeless. So it's not like you go, oh, well, they're talking about some political thing that happened in 2014, and I don't want to listen to that right now. No, it's like, we're talking about something that happened 480 years ago, and you do want to hear about it.

• 2:16:03Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:16:04Jocko Willink?

  So, yeah, but I saw the dichotomy leadership, someone the other day had, had wrote on Twitter, this is the best leadership book I've ever read, which is normally what I hear about extreme ownership. So now I see a little, little replacement there. Jade Charles is being usurped by his younger brother. That's what's going on. So Jade better start to keep rooting for extreme ownership year. You represent the dichotomy of leadership.

• 2:16:30Jocko Willink?

  We got Echelon Front Leadership Consultancy. What we do is we solve problems through leadership. It's me, Leif Bab and JP Denel, Dave Burke, Flynn Cochran, Mike Shirelli, Mike Byama, and Jason Gardner. Someone put up like, dang, everyone at this company is a pipe hitter. No one can compete. I was like, hmm, hey, I'm not going to say no one can compete, but we definitely have awesome guys on the team. That's echelonfront.com for details there. We got the muster coming in 2019, May 23rd and 24th in Chicago, September 19th, 20th in Denver, December 4th and 5th in Sydney, Australia. That's right. Go to extremeownership.com. Every one of these events is sold out.

• 2:17:16Jocko Willink?

  And all of these are going to sell out. They're actually selling faster than they've ever sold before. When we look at our data analytics.

• 2:17:23Jody Mitic?

  Sure. The made it data.

• 2:17:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:27Jody Mitic?

  I think it's meta.

• 2:17:27Jocko Willink?

  No, we're gonna say meta.

• 2:17:28Jody Mitic?

  Meta. It's we made it data. What do you guys call it? We'll work on the Canadian one after this.

• 2:17:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:36Jody Mitic?

  The Canadian dates.

• 2:17:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. EF Online. One of the reasons that we did this is because not everyone can come to the muster. And every time I post about the muster, there's someone that says, when are you coming to Milwaukee? When are you coming to Detroit? When are you coming to Ottawa? Yeah, they're wanting me to... And the bottom line is, we can't go everywhere to do musters. That was one of the things that made us make this thing EF Online. The other reason is we work with companies that have tens or hundreds of thousands of employees. And they say, oh, can you just train all of our employees? And I say, well, yeah, sure. And then they say, I have 138,000 employees. No, actually, that's gonna be a problem. So had to solve that problem. We made EF Online. It is interactive training online that you can take.

• 2:18:20Jocko Willink?

  EFOnline.com. We have also EF Overwatch. If you want, if you want a combat proven special operations leader or combat aviation leader to come and work inside your company to make things happen, then go to EFOverwatch.com. Fill out the information, whether you're a vet that wants a position or you're a talent seeker that needs people at your company that can lead and understand the principles that we talk about in Extreme Ownership. Then check that out. And if you want to keep cruising with us,

• 2:18:58Jocko Willink?

  all of us can be found on the interwebs, on Twitter and on Instagram and on the face.

• 2:19:07Jody Mitic?

  Are you off, are you off Facebook?

• 2:19:09Jocko Willink?

  No, he's on Facebook. Echo is at Echo Charles. I am at Jocko Willink and Jody is at Jody Middick. Echo, anything else?

• 2:19:17Speaker 02

  I have nothing else. Thank you.

• 2:19:19Jocko Willink?

  Thank you for having nothing else.

• 2:19:26Jocko Willink?

  Jody, anything else, brother?

• 2:19:28Jody Mitic?

  Thank you, Jaco. Thank you, Echo. Thank you to the listeners and, um, you know, I, I, I'm working on being the best Jody I can be. And thanks for being there with, for me and, uh, with Kelly and I.

• 2:19:39Speaker 02

  It's good that you have like a new mission, remember? That was one of the best ways I've ever heard it put, like you need a mission. So man, if you don't have like an important mission, like you don't really care. I mean, sure. I got, I know what I gotta do tomorrow and the next month and all stuff. But if it's not like that important to you, bro, you're gonna be like, all right, I need something.

• 2:19:57Jody Mitic?

  That's what happened, bro. The politics, getting into polit, winning was a great mission. And then I won and then I was like the dog that caught the car.

• 2:20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:09Jody Mitic?

  I was like, okay, what do I do now? And I tried to learn and I, you know, I had the deputy mayor and the mayor and they were all on my side and I had lots of, like, they all, we still talk, but my, my, they could say, like, they could see it. My heart just wasn't in it, you know? And like Kelly would always say, she would always say, man, you know, when you get excited, when you talk about like going here to see the troops or going there and shooting and going there and like planning that business you've I wanted to open a gym since before I got blown up. You know, and now I'm back on, and I thought I could do both. I thought being the counselor would let me like, you know, have a spot, open it, like be there for meetings, but it's just, it's not, it doesn't work. Not for me anyway. Maybe if I go like, I might get political again in my 50s.

• 2:20:52Jody Mitic?

  After I make a few bucks and it's a little less more to pay the bills and, or it's a little less about paying the bills and more about getting things done. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so, you know, but right now I need to be myself for a while. And so that's it. My 10 year plan is to be Jody.

• 2:21:08Jocko Willink?

  Check. And as Echo said, that's a new mission, the new mission with the place that you're developing.

• 2:21:13Jody Mitic?

  And you know, unplugging for as long as I did, I didn't realize how much you're doing and bro, like the respect I have for you actually just went up hearing that. And it's not like, it's not like it can go much higher. Don't get too egotistical or anything, but you know, a guy like me thinking you're awesome. But my, my point is everything you're doing is for the community. And I had a sit down, actually Shot Show 2017, one of the guys I taught on his Basic Sniper, sat, he's one of the best snipers in Canada, one of our soft commanders. He said, "You need to stop," he was another guy who told me, "You can do more for the community as Jody Middick, working for yourself than for working for Colt or Damaco or any of these other companies that I was looking at."

• 2:21:54Jody Mitic?

  And, you know, and it's being able to take, take the reins of leadership that you have and, and start doing the things. Listening to you talk, I'm like, because Kelly and I, like, we have a five and 10-year plan where we hope we can have an employment website, where we hope we can have a speaking bureau that can take guys of a similar mindset and have a, who have a presence and put them out there delivering a good message. And, and you're doing all that and you're being an example for, for my kids, dude. And like, because then, and, you know, it takes a village to raise a kid and I, and I want my daughters to know all the best people in the world and, you know, you're one of them and, and you're, just everything you're doing with the people around you, like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I have,

• 2:22:37Jody Mitic?

  I have someone that's leading the way for me. And, and I'm glad it's not just me doing it either. Because that makes, like, I'm way, I'm 10 years behind you, but, but now I know it's, it's possible too.

• 2:22:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, it's, um, there's, there's plenty of room, there's all kinds of people in the world that are, are down to move forward and move on and...

• 2:22:58Jody Mitic?

  And there's a plenty of pie for everybody, that's the one thing. Right now in Canada, we're dealing with a little bit of like, uh, too much competition, not enough collaboration as far as the tactical after-army world. But, you know, and the reason I, I kept throwing in Ottawa and Canada there is because they're hungry for Jaco in Canada. And, and you, and we should talk because, and we have a little bit.

• 2:23:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, we have a little bit.

• 2:23:20Jody Mitic?

  But, but I'm telling you, it's probably bigger than you realize. Okay, so anyway, I just wanted to throw that in. You said anything else and I just listening to you talk gives me hope that everything I want to do is achievable.

• 2:23:31Jocko Willink?

  There's no doubt about it. I mean, I'm, I'm an average dude that I'm a hard worker. I will say that, but nothing special in any other way. And I just, just

• 2:23:40Jody Mitic?

  And you're a good person and, and, and good people attract good people and you, you know, if you were hard to work with, people wouldn't work with you. And that's one thing I've learned, like, you know, if you want good people around, you have to be a good person.

• 2:23:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, it's, it's awesome to work with all the guys that I worked with before and we're all working together again. I was actually with Jason Gardner, we were just laughing because he got back from his gig. I got back from my gig and he was just laughing and saying, this is so awesome, man. This is so awesome.

• 2:24:07Jody Mitic?

  You're around all the people you were around in uniform and now you can help each other again.

• 2:24:12Jocko Willink?

  That's what it's all about, man. That's what it's all about. And speaking of those people in uniform that allow us to do this podcast, people like you, Jody, all of our military personnel, and, and also the police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and correctional officers and border patrol and all the first responders that are out there in uniform. All of you allow us the freedom and security that we have and that we relish every single day that allow us these opportunities. So thanks to every single one of you for providing it. And to everyone else that is listening.

• 2:24:52Jocko Willink?

  We talk about the path and we talk about discipline and we talk about living clean, but it is not an easy path. It is filled with temptations and pitfalls and hazards and traps.

• 2:25:09Jocko Willink?

  And it's hard to stay on the path. And if you fall off, it can seem even harder to get back on. But you can do it. You gotta be honest with yourself. Do not be a slave. Don't be a slave to drugs or booze or emotion or whatever weakness is trying to be your master.

• 2:25:37Jocko Willink?

  Don't allow it.

• 2:25:40Jocko Willink?

  Tell the truth. Call out your own weaknesses, then impose discipline, impose your will, and climb back up onto the path and set yourself free.

• 2:25:59Jocko Willink?

  And until next time, this is Jody Minnick, and Echo, and Jaco. Out.