JRE MMA Show #174 with Terence Crawford

Joe sits down with retired boxer Terence Crawford, a three-division undisputed champion who retired 42–0.www.youtube.com/@TBudCrawfordOfficialwww.tbudcrawford.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Order ALDI on Uber Eats: https://earn.sng.link/A99vk/i2fm/okid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  All right, Champ is here. Last time I saw you, I think it was before the Majerov fight, wasn't it? Wasn't it before that fight?

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I believe so.

• 0:20Joe Rogan?

  It was before that fight. And that was just around the time you were talking about fighting Canelo. And everybody was like, "That's crazy. He's gonna go up all the way to 168, two more weight classes above that. That's nuts."

• 0:34Joe Rogan?

  Everybody's gotta shut the fuck up now.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. You know what I say, skills pay the bills.

• 0:39Joe Rogan?

  They do, they do. Skills are everything, man. But the thing is, it's like, it's interesting. I watched both the Canelo fight and the Majerov fight again recently. And Majerov looked bigger. He looked bigger than Canelo. It was really interesting.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  He was a big dude.

• 0:56Joe Rogan?

  He's a big dude. I wonder what that guy walks around at? Because it's not 154.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  No, not at all. He fought at 160 his last fight.

• 1:04Joe Rogan?

  Did he?

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05Joe Rogan?

  Really, an outstanding performance against Canelo. It was, like I was telling you before, it was a great "I told you so" fight for me. Because there were so many of my friends that are big boxing fans that just thought Canelo was too big. They thought it was too much of a jump. He's too experienced.

• 1:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, you got it? I mean, you made it look, I want to say, easy. It wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitive. You know, it was, it was such a clear victory. It was, at one point, when you were pity patting him and then firing off hard shots, I was like, "Oh, my goodness, he's feeling it."

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was, I was in my element. I was in the zone.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Mainly because a lot of people was doubting me as well. You know, telling me I was gonna get knocked out, I was too small. And I was just fighting for the money when I knew what I was capable of. So I was just like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna show y'all what I'm really about." Because this is not the first time that I done heard that. Oh, he can't do this, he can't do that.

• 2:08Joe Rogan?

  I think your situation is very similar to when Roy Jones was in his prime. Because when Roy Jones was in his prime, everybody was saying, Roy Jones, other than James Tony, Roy Jones really hadn't fought anybody. And I was like, no. He's just that much better than everybody else. He makes it look like they're not good. If you saw them fight against everybody else, you would say these guys are awesome.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  For sure, for sure. And I, I've been dealing with that my whole career. You know, people getting so much praise after fighting a guy that I already knocked out. You know, if they beat him, oh, such and such beat this guy. But me, it's, oh, you fighting tomato cans or you fighting bombs and things like this. So I was just like.

• 2:55Joe Rogan?

  It was just because you're doing it so well. That's what it is. It's just people, they, they try to find flaws in every great performance. And the flaws, the only flaws they could find is, yeah, but who are these guys that he beat? But you beat great guys.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Champions.

• 3:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, listen, one of the more interesting fights to me was the Benavides fight. I rewatched that again recently, too.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  That was a good fight.

• 3:19Joe Rogan?

  Especially that, because there's so much tension. There's so much shit talking and tension and so many emotions.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  And he can fight.

• 3:27Joe Rogan?

  He can fight.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  You know, a lot of people, they looking at his injury and he fought no different from before or after the injury. He fought the same, you know, so that's another thing that they gonna say, oh, well, he had got shot in the leg and if he didn't, then this would have happened or that would have happened. I'm like, he fought the same. Like, if you know boxing and you see him box, nothing changed from. His boxing standpoint, he wasn't a mover. He wasn't this guy that uses his legs as a defense or offense. So I just take it as a grain of salt.

• 4:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm sure that injury sucked, but he fought the same. And he fought well. I mean, he's a tough guy. He fought really well.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Took me 12 rounds.

• 4:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, listen, and but oof, that right uppercut in that 12th round that put him down. I was like, oh, my goodness. I remember watching that fight live. I was like, oh, there it is. There it is, you found him.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, he had good head movement, you know.

• 4:34Joe Rogan?

  Tough guy.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  He was ducking them hooks and them straight punches. So I was just like, all right, I gotta switch it up.

• 4:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, also, he believed in himself.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  For sure, definitely.

• 4:45Joe Rogan?

  He came into that fight to win.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Oh, definitely, most definitely, most definitely.

• 4:50Joe Rogan?

  It's beautiful to watch you get what you deserve. Because I felt like, man, if you retired after the Spence fight, I don't think people that are casuals would really appreciate your skill set. You know, the people inside boxing, the people that really know boxing did. But I felt like too many of the casuals just talk so much shit. And so the Canelo fight was the cherry on top of the sundae.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was. And even now, a lot of people saying, oh, well, Canelo's washed, he's old. And I'm like, well, I'm older than him. What are we talking about? You know, so I just love it, you know, because it just shows what level I'm on. You know, for everybody to already know what happened. And then they try to take what happened and make it a reason why it happened.

• 5:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  So I just be like, man, that's cool.

• 5:46Joe Rogan?

  That's boxing, though, right? That's sports in general. You're always gonna have that. There's always gonna be a bunch of sideline people that talk a lot of shit. But, you know, for a lot of fighters, it's later in their career, especially when they're avoided or they have difficulty signing big fights. It's later in their career that people really appreciate them. Like, think about Bernard. It wasn't until Bernard Hopkins beat Felix Trinidad that people were like, oh, shit. Like, I think he was like. Thirty-seven or thirty-six when he fought Trinidad? And a lot of people are saying he's washed up. It's over. And when he knocked out Trinidad, everybody was like, oh, okay.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I've been calling out everybody since the beginning. You know, they created a whole side of the street because of me. You know, and I'm with a different promoter. It was always something, you know, and everybody always blamed me. But now I look at everybody now. All the promoters are working together now. Why couldn't they work together when it was my turn to shine? But it is what it is, and life happened, and I'm happy the way it happened because I did it my way. And I don't think too many other fighters can say that.

• 6:59Joe Rogan?

  That's true, yeah. It's a, it's a dirty business. You know, the business of promoters and keeping guys away from guys and making sure that their fighter, you know, avoids certain fighters. It's, it's always been that way, you know? And it's unfortunate for the fans because there's so many, like, the big one for a long time was David Benavides and Canelo. Like, everybody wants to see that fight, and they just can't figure out a way to make it happen. And you, you gotta think someone's avoiding somebody, and it's not Benavides.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  No, not, not, not at all. You know, I just think Canelo, in a sense, he know how big Benavides gonna come in the ring. You know, Benavides is a great fighter, you know, but he's a big fighter. He's a tall fighter, you know? And I just think Canelo knows, like, why would I wanna get in the ring with this guy that's gonna be massive come fight time? And I'm not that big of a guy at all. I've been doing all this with my skills because, because Canelo's not a big guy. He's been fighting big guys his whole career.

• 8:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  You know, and beating them with skill. You know, so you gotta tip your hat off to Canelo and what he's accomplished.

• 8:20Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Being 5'7", going up to 175 and fighting these big guys and actually winning.

• 8:29Joe Rogan?

  Knocked out Kovalev.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:31Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it was Kovalev later in his career, but he's still Kovalev.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 8:35Joe Rogan?

  And then having the courage to fight Bivol in his prime.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 8:38Joe Rogan?

  I think that's the fight that probably kept us from getting the Benavides fight, the Bivol fight, because I think after that fight, he's like, okay.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is big.

• 8:46Joe Rogan?

  This is a little big.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:48Joe Rogan?

  Because Bivol, not just big, but he's got that Russian style, light on the feet, in and out, in and out, in and out.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Good boxer.

• 8:56Joe Rogan?

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• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yep, so I think, you know, him knowing that, and then I think the disrespect that he got from Benavides had persuaded him to go elsewhere. But, you know, there's been many boxers from the past that didn't fight people that they wanted to fight.

• 12:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  You know, look at... Sugar Ray Leonard and Aaron Pryor, they never got that fight.

• 12:24Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  So, and I just won a midi, so it's gonna be like that.

• 12:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, it always seems at the end that it all worked out the way it was supposed to. You know, and that's how it felt like for me after your Canelo victory. Like, this is, this is like, you know, all the bullshit, it's like now everybody has to shut the fuck up. It's like, all the bullshit's gone, it's like now everybody's gotta give you your just do. Cause that was a stellar championship performance. I mean, that was one of the all-time great performances because it was a Canelo that's, you know, you could say whatever you want, I think he's still in his prime. And you just outboxed him, and you outboxed him, I mean, think about it. Forty to forty-seven, fifty-four, all the way up to sixty-eight, and you outboxed him.

• 13:14Joe Rogan?

  That's right, thirty-five first, right, that's right, that's crazy.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:18Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy, going up from thirty-five to sixty-eight. And outboxing the champ, and the way you did it too, it was so skillful, it was so beautiful to watch, man. When you're, if you're a fan of skillful, intelligent boxing, that was such a good fight to watch. Cause you know, Canelo's a dangerous guy, he's a heavy puncher, and he, he puts a lot of power into his punches. He's, he's kind of changed over the years and really relied more on his power, but man, he knows how to land it. And when he lands it, he puts people in a lot of trouble, and, whew, he just... There was, there was this one move that you were doing, where you were throwing a left hand, and then a quick hook behind it, before you even brought the hand back.

• 14:02Joe Rogan?

  So he was going to counter, and you were throwing a quick hook. I was like, oh, that is so pretty, that is so pretty.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Catch him in the counter. You know, Canelo is a great counter puncher, you know, so you gotta beat him to it, you gotta counter to counter at times.

• 14:16Joe Rogan?

  Did that fight play out the way you thought it was gonna play out?

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, most definitely.

• 14:19Joe Rogan?

  Exactly the way you thought it.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Most definitely, we knew what we was up against, you know, um, when I went to his fight against Berlanga, and against the guy that's on his team, I forgot his name, Mungia, Mungia. When I was with Turkey, I said Turkey, he can't beat me. Just watching him from...

• 14:46Speaker 01

  135 to now, like live, I'm looking at him, I'm just like, I can beat this dude. Like, my confidence is getting more and more and more. And his last fight in Saudi Arabia, I was like,

• 15:01Speaker 01

  yeah, he can't fight like that against me. Which he didn't, which he definitely rose his game, but I just believed in myself that much that nothing was gonna stop me from getting that victory that night.

• 15:15Joe Rogan?

  The fight in Saudi Arabia, he looked like undermotivated.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:19Joe Rogan?

  It wasn't a big enough challenge for him. He didn't look like he was in the same kind of shape physically, like when you look at him.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  He wasn't, you know, and it, and it happens, you know?

• 15:31Speaker 01

  That's why I always train like, this is the toughest fight of my career, cuz it is. Every fight is. And you never know what to expect with those type of fighters that nobody know about.

• 15:42Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Them be the, the ones that sneak up on you and, you know, you gotta be ready for them. But he didn't come to fight. He moved the whole fight and, you know, Canelo was frustrated and he was just like, ah, man, this dude didn't come to do anything.

• 15:59Joe Rogan?

  Right, he came to survive.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I could see where he was frustrated at.

• 16:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, he probably thought he didn't belong in there with Canelo either, right? You know, so he probably said, listen, if I just keep moving, I can get out of here with my dignity intact and just never get hit real good.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:18Joe Rogan?

  You know? It's, uh, it's fascinating now because before that fight, you were looked at as one of the best boxers today. Now you're looked at as one of the best fighters ever. And it's interesting how that changes, how people now look at your body. And then they look at Errol Spence before you fought him and go, Errol Spence can fight, man, he's a really good fighter. And a lot of people discredited your victory over him because of that car accident that he had and maybe he wasn't as good as we thought and, but now with the Canelo victory, you, you're in this.

• 16:58Joe Rogan?

  Rare air of, you know, mentioned as one of the greatest of all time. You know, there's a handful of guys, there is no, it's very difficult to say the greatest of all time. Cause people want to go all the way back to Sugar Ray Robinson, they, you know, they throw Floyd in the mix, primetime Roy Jones, there's all these different fighters they put as the greatest of all time, but you are now in that conversation. That's gotta be nice.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  It is beautiful, you know, especially all the hard work that I done put in to be here at that pinnacle of the sport. You know, since I was seven years old, I've been boxing, I've been fighting, I've been a fighter since day one. So, when people compare me to like Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Mayweather and Sugar Ray Leonard, comparing me to who will win, who will win, that just let me know that I did my job well in the sport.

• 17:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you absolutely did. Now, you definitely done done?

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Man, it's over with.

• 17:58Joe Rogan?

  It's definitely over?

• 17:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't got no, so I told, I told a cou- couple of my close friends, I said, okay, since 2014, I've been fighting for something, a title. I won my first title in 2014, March of 2014. Ever since then, I've been fighting for titles, undisputed, titles, undisputed, undisputed, titles, undisputed. Like, just everything that I've been fighting for. Now, and I just come back and it's just like, alright, what's the motivation? Just money? You know, like, alright, so what, what is on top of that? You know, because my, my thing was, the money gonna come.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  You know, I was taking pay cuts after pay cuts after pay cuts because I knew what I wanted my legacy to be when I finished boxing.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  I want to be remembered as one of the greatest champions of all time. You know, and I think I did that, you know, so now it's like this last fight that I had. The height of it, there's no better finish than that, to me.

• 19:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  What was on the line, coming from where I came from. All the odds that were stacked against me. All the things that I had to go through in camp to get to that fight. You know, it was just like, man, you did everything right, so what can top that?

• 19:31Joe Rogan?

  I love that. I love when fighters go out on top like that. And for a fighter to go out like you have with all your championship experience, all the weight classes you competed in, undefeated and beat Canelo, another all-time great. I mean, that is a perfect finale for a spectacular career. It's pretty dope.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 19:52Joe Rogan?

  And go out with your faculties intact, your health intact, plenty of money. It's nice.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  It's beautiful because nobody knows what us fighters adore to get to the point to entertain the fans. You know, we go through a lot, you know, we put our body through a lot. And then when it's all said and done, when our body broke down to the point where we can't take care of ourself, they don't care about us. They're going to say, oh, well, he was once a good champion and we go to the fights, you see a lot of old fighters showing up to the fights and people just walk past them.

• 20:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  You know, they on to the next, oh, let's see the young fighter, you know, and it's like they use you up till you have nothing left, then they forget about you.

• 20:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  You know, so it's very critical for these fighters to think about their health first because

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Once it's, once it's over with, it's over with and you can't, you can't get your health back. You can always get money elsewhere, but once you can't, your mind is messed up.

• 21:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  It's over with.

• 21:06Joe Rogan?

  That's such a good lesson for young fighters to see too, to see a guy like yourself be fully dedicated, so disciplined. Get through the whole thing, get out, on top and done.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:21Joe Rogan?

  And so many fighters have said that and then a couple of years go by, their identity is wrapped up in fighting. They go, man, I think I got one more in me and then, you know, maybe they're buying a lot of shit.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:33Joe Rogan?

  That's the real problem.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:35Joe Rogan?

  The real.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  It's always gonna be that, you know, I got, I got another one in me, I got another one in me. Because they miss that, that high of all the fans chanting their name and everybody, you know, cameras, lights and, you know, they, they miss it, you know, but I was always that type of person. I didn't care about all that.

• 22:00Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Y'all can have the lights, just, just pay me and I go under the rock somewhere, you know, take care of my family, you know. I never was a guy that wanted to be all up in the media and wanted to be the center of attention.

• 22:13Joe Rogan?

  How come?

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Cause that's just me. I already knew what I was doing it for. I never was doing it to be famous. You know, I don't walk around with a whole entourage to get noticed, you know, I'll be under the radar.

• 22:27Joe Rogan?

  I do like that. You show up by yourself. But one time you showed up at one of the UFC's and someone said you were Kendrick Lamar and they put it on the fucking screen and I didn't catch it, cause I was doing the broadcast, but I was like, are you guys out of here? Fuck, you don't know who Terrence Crawford is and you're in combat sports? This is crazy.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  I think they did that on purpose.

• 22:46Joe Rogan?

  No, no way, no way.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  They had to.

• 22:49Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no. It was just some moron in the truck.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, a hundred percent. They did not do that on purpose. No one in the UFC would ever disrespect you like that. No one would disrespect you like that, no chance.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was sitting next to, to everybody and I was like, did they really just do that?

• 23:05Joe Rogan?

  No, they, they did not do that on purpose. That was just some dumbass that thought that you were Kendrick Lamar for some reason.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:13Joe Rogan?

  It was so stupid. And then I think they corrected it later in the broadcast.

• 23:19Joe Rogan?

  I don't know who it was.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:20Joe Rogan?

  I didn't even wanna know. I'd yell at him, but.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  For sure, for sure.

• 23:24Joe Rogan?

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• 24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:04Joe Rogan?

  You know, and that's unusual for a guy who's achieved as much as you've achieved.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, people be so like surprised that, you know, they'll see me in the airport, they'd be like, "You by yourself?" "Oh, yeah, like, man, this is crazy." I would always imagine you with security guards, big entourage.

• 24:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  I mean, that's just a bill.

• 24:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  You know, you gotta pay all them people to be around you.

• 24:29Joe Rogan?

  That's true, too. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, every time you showed up at the studio, you showed up by yourself.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's another good example for young fighters to realize, like, at the end of the day, what are you really doing it for? You know, all that other bullshit, all the attention and stuff, that's, it's very temporary. It's very fleeting.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:49Joe Rogan?

  It goes away. Legacy. Legacy and the glory of your accomplishments, that stays forever. And the respect of people in boxing that really know.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 25:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what, that's what it's all about, and you've got that. Now, everybody has to shut the fuck up.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, they do.

• 25:07Joe Rogan?

  Everybody has to shut the fuck up. Even the people that said that, "Oh, Canelo's," that, "Stop." You were the same people saying Canelo was gonna stop him.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  You're the same people that's saying Errol Spence was gonna stop me. Same people that's saying Magic Muff was gonna stop me.

• 25:19Joe Rogan?

  Yup.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  And so forth, so. It just got to the point where they just, they can't, they gotta accept it now. It's like, man, I've been hating on this dude for so long, you know, and he's just been proving me wrong time after time. It's like, let me just give him his flowers.

• 25:36Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  You know?

• 25:38Joe Rogan?

  That's beautiful. And for young fighters, it's such a good thing to watch. It's so good for young fighters to have an inspirational figure, to have someone who really does it, like does it perfectly, and does it in a way that is very unusual. Because like, you're one of the best switch hitters since Marvin Hagler, if not the best, you know? And like that, god, that is such an underrated skill. It was so funny, one of the times you were in here, you were telling me that his coach, your coach told you, stop doing that.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. He was like, you need to focus on fighting orthodox the right way. Instead of switching to south paw. I was just like, alright, switch south paw again. And it was just like, he was like, alright, well, you gonna do that, we gonna train like that. I was like, alright, let's train like it. Cause I'm gonna keep switching, cause it just came so natural.

• 26:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  I'll be in there, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then I'll just, I'll just switch like, unthinkable. Ba, ba, ba.

• 26:33Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Man, you know, it was just, I win and I win. He was like, alright, we gonna fight like, we gonna train like that.

• 26:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's such an underrated aspect of boxing if you can do it, because you have to recalibrate where everything is coming from every time you switch.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  Different angles, all that.

• 26:50Joe Rogan?

  In MMA, it's become commonplace. In the beginning of MMA, it was a lot of people would stand one way or the other. And now, a large percentage of these young guys coming up are constantly switching. Because it hides combinations, it hides different techniques. There's so many different things you could do in MMA off a switch, because you're switching and kicking, you're switching and punching, you're kicking, and then now you're in south paw, and you're throwing left hands instead of right hands. It's like, things are, there's so much overload of the mind, where you have to calculate all these different things. And if you don't spar on a regular basis with a very crafty guy who switches a lot, it could fuck you up inside the cage.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, because some people, they have better chances on one side than the other.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  You know, and then when you switch on them, it's just like, oh, I hate fighting southpaws.

• 27:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  You know, and they just do something to their brain, you know, because they might be slower moving one way than the other way.

• 27:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, everything looks so weird when all of a sudden the jab's on the right side and the left, and then you, you, your, your brain has to like.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  You gotta worry about the hook now instead of the straight.

• 27:57Joe Rogan?

  Everything's different. Yeah. It's just, I mean, I wonder how many young fighters are going to see your example and start training that very early in their career now, because I think it's the, the conventional wisdom was that you have one stance, whether it's southpaw or orthodox, stick with that. There's a few outliers like Hagler, but for the most part, stick with that. But I don't think that's the way to go. I think, I mean, I think great fighters have stayed in one stance. But I think the way to go is having the ability to switch up.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's always, you know, beneficial if you can have it and not need it, then it needed and ain't got it.

• 28:37Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  You know, like, okay, it's cool that I don't need it for this fight, but I got it in my bag just in case I have it.

• 28:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  You know, and that's, that's like me, I got it all.

• 28:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Do you think you're gonna train people when you're done?

• 28:54Speaker 01

  I'll be training a little bit. I'll be helping out at the gym, but my patience ain't there yet. Like, I get frustrated and I have to remember, like my coach, Bomack, say, everybody's not you, bud. You know, everybody don't adapt like you. Everybody not as athletic like you, you know, so you can't be frustrated if they not getting something.

• 29:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Like, as fast as you getting it. You been doing this since you was seven. And some of these kids that started when they was teenagers. You know, so you gotta give them grace, you know, and take your time with them and some of them, you know, they flat footed and you just gotta. Train them into their style. Everybody not gonna have your style. So, when he explained that to me, I was just like, hey, you're right. You know, let me back up a little bit and just tell them what I see.

• 29:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  You know, more so than trying to coach them into being this fighter that I want them to be.

• 29:54Joe Rogan?

  Being a version of you.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's gotta be difficult, right? Because everybody does have a different style.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:00Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, you're, you're never gonna convince some fighters to fight your way. Yeah. But, ah, the wisdom that you can bestow on young fighters, it's like, there's a lot of great fighters, like, you know, Freddie Roach, that had some boxing matches, but was never like an elite boxer, but still was a great coach. And, but to have an elite fighter to be a coach, it's like, there's an element of that. First of all, you, is it, there's an element from the young guy coming up, like, you wanna impress. You got Terence Crawford in your corner.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:34Joe Rogan?

  You wanna impress him. Buddy McGurk did a fantastic job, and he became a great trainer. There's a, a bunch of fighters that have done it, but it's like, I always wonder, because I feel like there's so much you have to offer to these young guys. There's so much small minutia, intimate details of what you're thinking and what's going on, that would completely change the way a young fighter sees certain exchanges.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. And I try to help them on that aspect, when they in the ring, or when they on the bag, or when they hitting the mitts, shadow boxing, just little details. You know, I come in the gym, and you see the little kids, they see me, and they look, look to the corner, and they hit the back, ah.

• 31:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they get fired up.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  You can see they trying to get my attention. I come over there, then give them some little wisdom, you know, and they appreciative. But it's good that they see me in the gym all the time. You know, my, my son wrestling next door, and they over here boxing, and I'm both one side and the other side, so.

• 31:37Joe Rogan?

  Your son just won a wrestling title?

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, he just won state as a freshman.

• 31:41Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:42Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible. That's so amazing. Does, what does he wanna do?

• 31:47Speaker 01

  He wanna go D1, he wanna.

• 31:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 31:49Speaker 01

  He, he told me that.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Saturday, after the tournament, we on our way to the Ryan Garcia fight. He said that, "I wanna go to Olympics."

• 32:00Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  I said, "You want to?" Said, "What kind of mind state is that?" I said, "You gonna go." I said, "You gotta have it in your mind, you going." You can't say you wanna go. You gotta say, "I'm going to the Olympics." That way, you know, you already programming it, you know, for the future.

• 32:18Joe Rogan?

  How did you learn that mentality?

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Man, been doubted my whole life. You know, been doubted my whole life and my coach, Ms. Minor, used to always say, "Laddie, daddie, we fight anybody. They ain't fought you yet." You know, and I just carried that on my shoulders, like, anybody you put in front of me, they ain't fought me yet, so you can't tell me they can beat me until they beat me. So, just like my son, like, "Ay, you gotta have that confidence that whatever you say you wanna do, you gonna go out and do it, but you gotta put the work in first."

• 32:52Joe Rogan?

  So, in that sense, doubters give you fuel?

• 32:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 32:57Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of people like that. A lot of people like that. They live off the haters.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. They fuel me up. And then especially when the... It's crazy because, like, Madamoff and Canelo, they were so respectful, you know? And I respect them, you know? I've been a fan of Madamoff, you know, coming from Uzbekistan and learning about him and hearing about him. And I've always been a fan of Canelo, like, since I can remember, you know? So, I didn't have that, like, killer, like, mind, like, heart, in my heart. Like, I wanted to beat him, but like, my other fights, I was like, "Man, I wanna knock this dude out."

• 33:39Joe Rogan?

  Like Benavides?

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. I wanted to knock him out, like... So, like, even in training, like, I didn't have that rage, like, this dude talking shit, like, he never... They never got under my skin. It was like all respectful. So, it was like, "All right, I wanna whip their ass," but I didn't wanna, like, inflict... Like pain, like I wanna like knock him out.

• 34:00Joe Rogan?

  There was one fighter you fought at one forty, his name is escaping me. But you you stopped him in the fifth, yes.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wanted to knock him out.

• 34:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I was so mad, like when you when you watch that fight, you know, I miss like when they stopped it, I miss like two crazy hooks. And I just like, man, why I could not land him like he would have went to sleep.

• 34:22Joe Rogan?

  You weren't happy, you were just stopping him.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wanted I wanted to put him asleep, but you know, it's it's a sport and it is what it is. And I'm happy that we all could go home to our family and talk about it, you know, years down the line.

• 34:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 34:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, that is the danger of the sport. That's why it's so different than every other sport. It's like you you legitimately putting your life on the line.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and a lot of people don't understand that until something happen.

• 34:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  You know, us boxers, a lot of boxers have died in that ring. A lot of boxers have went in the ring one way and left it a different way.

• 35:02Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  You know, so when a lot of fans, they criticize boxers for doing what the sport is for. And that's boxing. You know, us boxers like you not even here getting your brains beat out. So what you consider boring, we consider us doing what the sport is meant to do is box.

• 35:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  You know, and I think a lot of fans don't give a lot of fighters they just do for boxing. You know, like Floyd, like Shakur, you know, when they pure boxers.

• 35:46Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  You know, they wanna see people bleeding, battered, knocked out, you know, but they not thinking about the aftermath and the after effects of them fighters going to the hospital, blood on the brains, uh, pissing blood and things like that. Like your body is not meant to be beaten like that.

• 36:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  You know, so. They just looking at, oh, well, I paid this money, y'all gonna go in there and kill each other. You know, and I think that's wrong.

• 36:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, you're always gonna have morons in this world. You're always gonna have casuals, you're always gonna have people that don't appreciate what they're saying. But like, when I see a performance like Shakur versus Tia Fimo, that last fight, like, that was art. That was art. That sneaky jab where it was like half-speed and then popping him with the jab and you could see Lopez just couldn't get out of the way of it. He know what to do. It was beautiful. It was, it barely got hit. It was beautiful.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  And, and things like that. You know, you see two high caliber fighters, but you just see one just on a different level because of his boxing IQ. You know, not because Tia Fimo didn't belong in the ring with him, it's just that Shakur IQ and his boxing ability is up here.

• 37:08Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  You know, he didn't have to sit in front of him and trade shots and give Tia Fimo the opportunity to land a good shot and change the, the, the outcome of the fight. One shot, I don't care who you is, in a good, in the right spot, at the right moment, anybody can get knocked out.

• 37:29Joe Rogan?

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• 38:15Joe Rogan?

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• 39:01Joe Rogan?

  Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. Without a doubt. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, the human brain is not designed to get punched. Right. It's just not designed that way, especially big punchers. And when you see a guy like Tiafimo, Tiafimo can crack. He's a big dude, and he's a world champion. And it was one of the most lopsided performances ever, where you see one world champion challenging another world champion. For sure. I mean, it was art. To me, every moment of that fight, like up until the 12th round, I was just like, there was multiple times where I was like, ooh!

• 39:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my goodness. It was just beautiful. It was just, I love watching a guy at the pinnacle. You know, watching a guy where everybody else has got to go, wow, I didn't think it was going to go like this. Because, you know, Tiafimo's a super aggressive guy. Beat Lomachenko, he's got a nasty jab, throws big power in his punches, he's tough as hell. You know, a lot of people are like, this is going to be a tough fight. And Shakur just, and he didn't run. He stood right in front of him. That's the other thing. He wasn't getting hit, and he was right in front of him. I mean, that was art. That was art. That's boxing at the highest level. And I'm fascinated, because now they're talking about him and Ryan Garcia. I am fascinated to watch that fight.

• 40:30Joe Rogan?

  Because Shakur's a different animal. Ryan looked amazing in that fight. I mean, he looked amazing. I mean, he looked so fast, and it was a beautiful fight to watch. But that's an interesting fight. I liked that fight. Shakur and him. I liked that fight a lot. Because Shakur's just a different animal. You're dealing with a whole different kind of skillset.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Yeah Shakur. Listen, I went down to camp before he fought Tia Fimo and I seen his focus in the level of, you know, intense training he was doing. And I said, "I don't know it all, but I know Shakur gonna whoop Tia Fimo's ass." I tweeted that way before the fight, you know, and he went out there and did it. Ryan looked spectacular in this fight. For what it was, I don't think Barrios came to fight. You know, Ryan was boxing great. You know, the jab was working, the overhand right was working.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  And he looks out at me at the end, "You see my jab?" I said, "Man, it was working."

• 41:45Speaker 01

  That jab was beautiful because we don't, we're not used to seeing Ryan jab.

• 41:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  You know.

• 41:50Joe Rogan?

  Or his right hand.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  Or boxing, for that matter.

• 41:53Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  You know, he was boxing beautiful.

• 41:56Joe Rogan?

  Beautiful.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  You know, and I commend him on that. Like, he aced it, you know, but when it come to Shakur, Shakur is not a Barrios. You know, Shakur got a jab. Shakur got head movement. Shakur got defense. Shakur knows range. Shakur have good legs, so...

• 42:19Speaker 01

  I look at that fight like, it's not gonna be as a competitive fight like everybody think because if Ryan get careless, he's gonna get countered all day.

• 42:30Joe Rogan?

  If he gets careless. I think he'll fight very different than he fought with Barrios.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  He's got to.

• 42:35Joe Rogan?

  Barrios just couldn't keep up with the speed. I mean, Ryan's speed is extraordinary. He relies on it a lot, but I mean, that's not a knock. That's just like, if you had it, everybody should rely on that. Man, that speed is nuts. Shakur's a different animal.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying.

• 42:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, a lot of people thought Devin Haney was different though, right? A lot of people thought Devin Haney was gonna give him real problems. When he dropped Devin early with a left hook, everybody was like, "Oh, this is different." I wish he didn't have a positive drug test in that fight because that fucking tainted everything.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  They know each other. Far too well. I think him and Devin fought each other the most out of all of them. You know, Shakur and Ryan fought as well, which Shakur won all the times that they fought. But I just think, you know, him and Devin, the, the history of it. Devin came in there overconfident. Ryan, you know, been juiced up, you know, added a little whatever it did. But, you know, you can't take away from him landing the punches that he was landing.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  You can't take away from the performance that, you know, he was, he was doing. But when you, when you on steroids, that add too.

• 44:00Joe Rogan?

  It definitely adds something. What was he, what did he get popped for? Do you remember?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  I don't even know.

• 44:05Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, find out what he got popped for. It was a very low level of whatever he got popped for. And a lot of people say, oh, the levels, it doesn't, it wouldn't even matter. It's such a small level. Eh, the problem is, there's a lot of ways you can mask the amount of steroids you have in your system. And that's one of the reasons why the UFC banned IVs. Because you can flush your body out if you super hydrate with IVs. I don't know what, what you're supposed to put in the IV. But there's some nutrients that you can put in IVs that will mask any traces of performance enhancing drugs. Which is why UFC, you have to hydrate. This is drug-free sports policy and Usada's policy. You have to hydrate only with drinking liquids.

• 44:50Joe Rogan?

  You can't hydrate with an IV. And when you use an IV, which I don't, was, were they allowed to use IVs to rehydrate?

• 44:56Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 44:57Joe Rogan?

  When you use IVs to rehydrate, you can mask a lot of shit. So if he did use an IV to rehydrate and he only showed a trace amount, that's still... That, what did he, what did he test positive for?

• 45:12Speaker 03

  Lost which, who, I missed which fighter you're talking about?

• 45:14Joe Rogan?

  Uh, Ryan Garcia.

• 45:15Speaker 03

  Oh, that's right.

• 45:16Joe Rogan?

  Ryan Garcia, when he fought Devin Haney. The fight got overturned, right? It was a no contest? Which is very unfortunate, because it was a clear victory, one of his best victories ever. Dropped Devin, had him in trouble a bunch of times. Dropped him, how many times?

• 45:29Speaker 01

  A few.

• 45:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a few times. He looked fucking great in that fight.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, he did.

• 45:34Joe Rogan?

  And I think, uh, unfortunately, you know, that positive drug test, just... Osterine, yeah. Okay.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  I think, I think, you know, both of those fights is great fights for Ryan. Ryan is in a great position right now.

• 45:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  You know, he, he, he got the Roly, unification fight. You know, he lost, he lost to Roly.

• 45:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  He got that fight, that he can, you know, try to avenge in a unification fight.

• 46:05Joe Rogan?

  Roly looked great in that fight.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  He got Devin.

• 46:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  In a unification fight. Uh, he got Shakur.

• 46:12Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  In a spectacular fa- fight, so Ryan's in a great position right now.

• 46:18Joe Rogan?

  If Gervonta comes back, he's got that rematch.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  I don't think Gervonta is gonna fight him without having those type of claws.

• 46:25Joe Rogan?

  The rehydration claws?

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, bring him down, and you gotta do this, and you gotta do that, so...

• 46:31Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. Those, those clauses are crazy. You can't weigh more than X when you get into the... Fuck off with that.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  That's like with me and Canelo. I'm like, man, listen, I'm challenging you.

• 46:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  You can weigh whatever you want, I don't want no excuses. You know, I, hey, it is what it is. When I, all you gotta do is weigh 168.

• 46:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  You know, and then after that, it is what it is.

• 46:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the same shit that Floyd made Canelo do.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  That's where they got it from.

• 46:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  That's where they got it from, you know?

• 47:02Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, these guys see that big number, they see those purses, and they go, "Oh, I can fight good."

• 47:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:09Joe Rogan?

  "I'll just get, I'll just get a little smaller beforehand." It's just not smart.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, your body's not gonna react when it's not fully hydrated.

• 47:17Joe Rogan?

  No, not chance. It's the worst way to fight, you know? I think guys who cut a tremendous amount of weight, they do themselves a terrible disservice.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:25Joe Rogan?

  They really do. I think it's terrible for your body. What's the most you ever had to cut?

• 47:30Speaker 01

  The most I ever had to cut, probably like...

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Twenty-five.

• 47:34Joe Rogan?

  Whew, that's a lot. What weight was that, thirty-five or forty?

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Forty-seven.

• 47:38Joe Rogan?

  Forty-seven, really? Wow.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  My last fight with Spence.

• 47:43Joe Rogan?

  And when did you start your cut?

• 47:45Speaker 01

  Whew, months.

• 47:46Joe Rogan?

  Months out?

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, months out.

• 47:48Joe Rogan?

  So, the week of the fight, what were you at?

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Probably like one fifty-two, fifty-four.

• 47:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay. That's very good. That's very reasonable. See, MMA fighters do it in a fucked up way.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Them last couple of pounds is tough.

• 48:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Them last couple of pounds are tough, and I just knew that it was over with. I knew it was over with, you know? But the hardest cut ever was when I was at one-thirty-five. That was like killing me.

• 48:21Joe Rogan?

  What were you walking around at back then?

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Probably like in the fifties.

• 48:27Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Like fifty-five.

• 48:31Joe Rogan?

  And so, would you just lower your calories in camp? In camp?

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Everything. I gotta change my whole diet.

• 48:39Joe Rogan?

  And then the week of the fight, what did you weigh when you were fighting thirty-five?

• 48:45Speaker 01

  I don't even remember. Man, I was cutting like, probably like

• 48:52Speaker 01

  seven pounds the week of the fight.

• 48:55Joe Rogan?

  See, that, in the MMA world, that's nothing. These guys are cut crazy.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Because they wait till the last minute. I know, I know a lot of MMA fighters.

• 49:04Joe Rogan?

  They just dehydrate themselves.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, they wait till the last minute, but mine, I gotta start gradually. Because I never want to go in there and just like taint.

• 49:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  So, I gotta change my eating habits up months, like two months in advance. That way, I can get my body used to being lighter and

• 49:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  you know, performing at that weight class, because if not, you know, you doing more hurting yourself than than good, because you taking all the fluid out of your brain.

• 49:37Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  You know, and Yeah, I couldn't be at no disadvantage like that.

• 49:42Joe Rogan?

  And it makes you more vulnerable to getting knocked out.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:45Joe Rogan?

  Definitely. I mean, Alex Pereira was the craziest example in the UFC. He was fighting at one eighty-five and he would weigh two twenty-five when he fought.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:53Joe Rogan?

  Which is bananas. I mean, that's forty fucking pounds.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  I think that's why I got, um, when, when, uh, not Canelo, when I fought Gamboa. When I got hurt, you know, in a ninth round. But I stopped him in the ninth round, but that was part of that. Boom, caught me with a clean shot. Boom, I'm like, oh shit. You know, until this day, that's the only fight that I got hurt like that ever. You know, a lot of people thought Mean Machine dropped me, Mean Machine hurt me. I didn't got, Mean Machine hit me with some hard shots, some clean hard shots, but nothing was like that, Gamboa. Like, my whole leg locked up and I was just like, man, I gotta grab this dude, you know, and...

• 50:42Joe Rogan?

  And you think the weight cut had a lot to do with that?

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 50:45Joe Rogan?

  What weight was that at?

• 50:46Speaker 01

  One thirty-five.

• 50:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, one thirty-five. You're a big guy, man.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:50Joe Rogan?

  That's a lot of weight to cut.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:52Joe Rogan?

  It's, uh, that's the, the most problematic part of MMA for sure. I was actually just having a conversation with Hunter Campbell about that. They're trying to devise strategies to discourage these big weight cuts and trying to figure out what to do.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  It was crazy, though, because I've always been skinny.

• 51:10Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  You know, a lot of people, they say, oh, he's a weight bully, he's this, he's that. And it's like, bro, I came from one thirty-two.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  I wasn't at, you know, you see a lot of these fighters, they in the amateurs, they, like Shawn Porter, he was at one sixty-five, then he went to one forty-seven. You know, a lot of people, they was heavier and then they dropped weight. I was at one thirty-two and I moved up to go at one thirty-five, you know, as a professional. And I was cool with the weight. Then I just started filling out once I start, you know, working out more and doing a little strength and condition and I just started, my body started filling out, so I kept moving up. But the weight that I was at with Canelo, that's the most comfortable is time of my career to be able to...

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Eat whatever I want, not focus on weight.

• 52:06Joe Rogan?

  Did you feel much better in the ring because of that?

• 52:08Speaker 01

  I did, I did, because that was the only time that I never, like, I had to eat to keep my weight on.

• 52:17Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  And it's like, you know, I'm not used to doing that. Like, I'm used to, you know.

• 52:24Joe Rogan?

  Starving.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  We got portions, it's like, they feed me big meals, I'm like, I can't eat all this, you know? But so, that was the, that was the one camp that it was like, the weight wasn't an issue.

• 52:37Joe Rogan?

  Do you have a nutritionist in camp? And so, how do they, how do they do your meals? Is it all based on X amount of protein, X amount of carbs, all weighed out?

• 52:47Speaker 01

  All of that.

• 52:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:48Joe Rogan?

  And then they weigh you, check you, make your body fat?

• 52:51Speaker 01

  They ask me what I weigh in the morning, every morning.

• 52:54Joe Rogan?

  What did you weigh, like, when you got into the ring?

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Uh, I think I was like seventy-two.

• 52:59Joe Rogan?

  Okay, just a few pounds.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:02Joe Rogan?

  Nothing.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  I didn't weigh, I didn't weigh, I probably was a couple of pounds, yeah.

• 53:08Joe Rogan?

  The only difference in MMA is obviously the grappling, you know? And that's, it plays a big advantage if you can get a lot of weight on a guy. That's, that's why a lot of guys do it. It's also, MMA is very flawed. And one of the most flawed aspects of it is the weight classes, there's just not enough weight classes. There's giant leaps. Like, between, uh, two oh five, the next weight class is heavyweight. So it's two oh five to two sixty-five. One eighty-five, the next weight class is two oh five. That's twenty pounds. That's nuts.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:42Joe Rogan?

  One seventy to one eighty-five, fifteen fucking pounds is a lot.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  A lot.

• 53:45Joe Rogan?

  That's a lot.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Seven pounds is a lot.

• 53:47Joe Rogan?

  Fifty-five to seven, yeah, seven pounds is a lot.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  A lot of people don't know, but I was way stronger at forty-seven than I was at forty. And that's only seven pounds.

• 53:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  That's seven pounds of muscle that I don't have to cut.

• 54:00Joe Rogan?

  Right, yeah.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  And a lot of people think, oh, it's just seven pounds, or one thirty-five to one forty. It's just five pounds, oh, that matters.

• 54:08Joe Rogan?

  Yes, it matters a lot. And for fighters, there's a lot of guys that are tweeners. They're too big for 155, they can't make the weight. And then they're too small for 170.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:19Joe Rogan?

  Cause at 170, you got guys that are never gonna make 155. They're coming down from 210 and they're getting to 170 and they're jacked.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  I know somebody that was coming out from 230 fighting at 165.

• 54:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. Who was that?

• 54:35Speaker 01

  I ain't gonna say his name.

• 54:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, Anthony Rumble Johnson was the craziest one that I ever saw.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  230.

• 54:41Joe Rogan?

  Anthony Rumble Johnson was 230 and he was fighting at 170. I ran into Rumble once, rest in peace. He died a few years back. I ran into Rumble once when he was fighting at 170 and he was in between fights. And I ran into him at the hotel and he was a fucking heavyweight. He was so big, I couldn't, I go, what do you weigh?

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:01Joe Rogan?

  And he said 230. I'm like, dude, that's crazy. You have to cut 60 pounds?

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:07Joe Rogan?

  But it was killing him. It was killing him, like literally to the brink of death.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:13Joe Rogan?

  The day before a fight. That's nuts. That doesn't make any sense. And they were all doing it because they all felt like they had to be the biggest guy in there.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:23Joe Rogan?

  Not smart. No.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  At all.

• 55:24Joe Rogan?

  I think for MMA, they really need to recognize this, that one of the things that's gonna stop weight class is give people more weight classes.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:34Joe Rogan?

  Give people more options. You get these, this idea of only having eight champions, I think in MMA is very, very limiting. It's also limiting the potential of a guy like you to go up and up and up and win championship after championship. In MMA, if you win two belts, that's crazy. That's the only thing anybody's ever done.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  Weight classes is so far apart.

• 55:53Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. It's the only, the only people that have ever done it have done it in two weight classes. No one's done it in three.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:59Joe Rogan?

  You know, Pereira might try to do it at heavyweight. He might try to go up to heavyweight now, cause he's walking around like 240. Which is crazy, cause he used to fight at 185. It's nuts, but. If they had more options and they had more weight classes, I think we'd have more competitive fights. We'd have less extreme weight cutting. We'd have healthier fighters. Uh, just more champions is better. I mean, there's a lot of guys that could be champions. There's not a weight class for them.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:26Joe Rogan?

  If there's a 20-pound gap, 20 pounds is so much. If I put 20 pounds of bone and muscle on this table and show you what it looks like, you'd be like, whoa. That's a crazy amount of mass and the difference between losing that, gaining that, being in the middle of that. It's pretty significant. So for a lot of fighters, they're just, their frame doesn't line up perfectly with whatever the division is.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:51Joe Rogan?

  It just, they, they don't have a chance.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:54Joe Rogan?

  It sucks.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  It does.

• 56:56Joe Rogan?

  It drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. Well, I think extreme weight cutting is the worst thing that's ever happened to the sport of MMA and.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Any sport.

• 57:04Joe Rogan?

  Any sport, but in boxing, it's not as extreme. No one really does it. Jeremy McClellan used to do it.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:10Joe Rogan?

  He got real big in between fights, real big. He was, but that cost him in the Nigel Benn fight. I think that probably is what led to his bleeding of the brain. That's probably one of, one of the contributing factors to why he's, you know, he's, he's so hurt right now. You know, and that fucked Roy up too, because back at the time, that was his biggest rival was Gerald. And, you know, Roy was always like, I do not want that ever happening to me, you know?

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, man, like I say, when you lose that, that weight and you don't understand, you losing that fluid in, in the back of your brain. You know?

• 57:49Joe Rogan?

  And it takes days for that fluid to fully return to your brain, especially when you're just drinking the water and not IV rehydrating.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  It's tough. It's tough.

• 57:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a. But, I mean, boxing's been around longer. They've got it figured out. And unfortunately, or fortunately, the UFC dominates MMA. And they only have eight weight classes, so everybody else only has eight weight classes. California has instituted a bunch of different weight classes, but nobody... UFC has a heavyweight limit. Isn't that crazy that is? Isn't that stupid? It's stupid, right?

• 58:23Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 58:24Joe Rogan?

  Talk to these people.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  I'm just now learning about that.

• 58:26Joe Rogan?

  You didn't know? 265. You have to weigh 265. So think about Tyson Fury. When Tyson Fury fought Deontay, he was like 280, 285. Imagine, he's gotta dehydrate himself, he's gotta lose 20 fucking pounds? Just to make the weight class? That's retarded. That doesn't make any sense at all.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  At all.

• 58:42Joe Rogan?

  At all. It's the heavyweight.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  It's the heaviest weight we can go.

• 58:45Joe Rogan?

  Remember Valuwev when he was fighting Evander Holyfield?

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Dude was huge.

• 58:49Joe Rogan?

  God! He had to be over 300 pounds. He was a literal giant, an actual giant. Yeah.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  So, I think that's something you need to talk to Dana about.

• 58:59Joe Rogan?

  Nobody listens to me, bro. They don't. They don't listen to me. They think I'm crazy.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  Well, we gotta petition it then.

• 59:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I have a bunch of wacky rules that I want to institute. So, I understand why they don't wanna listen to me. I would throw the whole sport up in the air.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  I think it...

• 59:14Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports app comes into play. It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action. With scores and play-by-play automatically showing up on your iPhone when the teams you follow are playing. That means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing, which is especially nice when you're following a bunch of teams and your friends are constantly blowing up the group chat.

• 59:56Joe Rogan?

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• 1:00:41Joe Rogan?

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• 1:00:49Speaker 01

  These combat sports, it gotta come from the fighters. You know, just like boxing, I think if the fighters come together, they can make anything happen. The fighters don't understand the level of power that they carry because they think, oh, since they cutting the check, they got the power.

• 1:01:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  You know, but they can't cut the check without us. You know, but it's the fighters that need the money that makes it hard.

• 1:01:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  Because the fighters that already got the money, they can make a stand for something. But the fighters that doesn't, they like, well, you can do that. I gotta provide for my family. You can take a chance of going at the organization for a year or however long it's gonna last, but who gonna pay my bills?

• 1:01:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Who gonna put food on my family table while we doing this? While we making this stand? So it's a little tougher for them to make that stand than a person that's already established.

• 1:01:53Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  You know, and I think that's where, you know, the seesaw effect happens.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  With boxing and UFC because.

• 1:02:03Joe Rogan?

  Well UFC is more extreme because it's really just the UFC.

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:07Joe Rogan?

  It's really, I mean even Francis Ngano, right? Francis Ngano, one of the most devastating fighters to ever compete in MMA. UFC heavyweight champion. They couldn't get a deal signed and he winds up leaving. He goes to the PFL, but nobody's watching. Nobody watches. Nobody cares. He knocked out some dude in the PFL and nobody cared.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  Is he making more money?

• 1:02:29Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  He care.

• 1:02:30Joe Rogan?

  He cares. Well, that's why he did it.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's all that matters.

• 1:02:34Joe Rogan?

  A great deal with the PFL and then he got to box. Boxed Tyson Fury, boxed Anthony Joshua. Doing well. Doing well. Much, much more money, for sure. Which is good, but the fortunate and unfortunate. Fortunate that the UFC is the best promotional organization that's ever existed. They really know how to do it. They do it right. They make stars out of these fighters. They give them all these opportunities. They, they get the most asses in the seats. Every pay-per-view sells well. When there's a UFC pay-per-view, people line up to see it. There's a bunch of stars in the UFC. But unfortunately, when they're in other organizations, even if they're getting paid more, nobody knows who they are.

• 1:03:15Joe Rogan?

  And so if they want to come to the UFC, they have to be, they have to take a pay cut, which is crazy. So you're leaving an organi- like, if you're going from uh, small promotions in boxing and then all of a sudden you're in a world title fight and you're in, or you're in, you know, uh, Golden Boy Promotions, you would imagine now I'm getting paid more money. More people are watching me. But it's not the case. Like, these other organizations, like the PFL, have to pay these guys more money because otherwise they can't get them at all. Because everybody wants to fight in the UFC. It's not a monopoly because there is other options. There's 1FC, there's PFL, there's some organizations in Russia and other parts of the world. But the reality is, it's like the NFL or like, you know, Q-tips.

• 1:03:58Joe Rogan?

  It's like, it's got a name. It's the NBA. Nobody wants to watch some new basketball organization. Nobody wants to watch, I mean, the XFL, do people watch it? I don't know. But it's not the Super Bowl, you know? It's like, there's one big organization. That's the NFL. There's one big MMA organization. That's the UFC. And for these guys that want the glory, they want to be known as the best in the world, there's one place to be. So it's very difficult for those guys to. Hold out for more money.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  It goes back to identity and what you're doing it for.

• 1:04:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  You know, that's what you gotta ask yourself. Is you doing it for fame? Is you doing it for to provide stability for your family? Is it, I need money? Like, what is you doing it for? Yeah, definitely legacy.

• 1:04:50Joe Rogan?

  For the greats of the greats, legacy is the primary focus, almost always. Greatness is always the primary focus, because otherwise you never achieve greatness. If you're just thinking about money, I don't think those guys ever get to the level that you're at or the level that like the elite of the elite get. I think those guys have to have their eye on being the number one dog, period.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Facts. That's why I asked, what is you doing it for? Because Nganu, you know, he, he's already famous.

• 1:05:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  He probably like, okay, well.

• 1:05:21Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  If y'all gonna pay me X amount over here and they only gonna pay me this, then it makes business sense to go over here.

• 1:05:31Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  You know, and that's just like Connor Ben. He just signed with Zuffa. And a lot of people was saying he's disloyal and Eddie Hearn's now was loyal to him and this and that and this.

• 1:05:47Joe Rogan?

  He's getting 15 million for his.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  I'm like, man, what is people talking about? I said, it's just business. It ain't personal with, with them, I bet. I said Connor Ben did what was best for him and his family. I said, just like the promotional companies gonna do what's best for them and their business. If a fighter that they sign lose probably two straight, they get to cut them, no questions asked. Why? Because now they wasting money they feel. They don't care about that person's family. They don't care about that person, you know, relationship with them. They not going in there with their heart like, oh, man, like you a good buddy. They like, ah, sorry, it's just business, cut you.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  So when a fighter does the same thing that a promotional company do, or a manager, or anybody else, it's, oh, you disloyal, you this, you that. I'm like, make it make sense.

• 1:06:40Joe Rogan?

  That's, it doesn't make any sense in boxing, because in boxing, there's so many promoters. There's so many different peoples, Eddie Hearn, Bob Arum, there's so many different promoters. Don King, there's so many different promoters. That's the beauty of boxing, is that there's a lot of competition, and there's a lot of people that are there to try to get you over onto their side. And there's cross promotion. There's no cross promotion in MMA. Doesn't exist. They tried it a little bit. In the early days, they sent some UFC fighters over to Japan to fight for Pride, and they brought some Pride fighters over into the UFC, but they don't do that anymore. That was the early days, because it was, the sport wasn't big back then.

• 1:07:21Joe Rogan?

  They were just trying to get big names, and they were trying to work a promotional deal, but Japanese, man, they're clever. Like, when they sold them Pride, they thought they were getting all the fighters. Turned out all of their contracts were bullshit, that none of them were valid. They basically bought Pride for, I think they spent $65 million, and they got a library. They just got a video library.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  UFC did?

• 1:07:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they didn't get shit. They didn't get Fedor. Fedor was the big dog. At one point in time, he was-

• 1:07:51Speaker 01

  Kicking everybody's legs, I remember.

• 1:07:53Joe Rogan?

  Fucking everybody up, slamming them, arm barring them, fucking people up standing. He was a complete. It was, and he was, at the same time, where Kane Velasquez was in his prime. And that was the fight that they tried to put together. But the Russians, because the UFC didn't have a contract with Fedor anymore, because the contracts at Pride were all bullshit. They, they had a deal with, you know, these Russian gangsters and these Russian gangsters were like, you know, they wanted a piece of the promotion, they wanted a lot. And the UFC wasn't willing, it got very contentious, like the UFC had to up their security. It got, it got sketchy.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:29Joe Rogan?

  It got sketchy. You know, they're, they're bad dudes. Those are bad dudes, man, you know? But it's just, as a fan, we were robbed. We were robbed of like, one of the greatest matchups in the history of the sport.

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:43Joe Rogan?

  And there's a few of those moments in combat sports where you've got these just top dogs, where you're like, God, we gotta see that happen. For a while was Floyd and Manny, right? For a while. And then after Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out Manny, it took a little of the shine off of that and, and then eventually they fought, but Manny had a hurt shoulder and now they're gonna do it again, they're both 50. It's crazy.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  You're gonna watch it though.

• 1:09:10Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna watch it. Fuck yeah, I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna watch him fight Mike. I think that's crazy. He's gonna have an exhibition with Tyson, which is crazy.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's crazy.

• 1:09:20Joe Rogan?

  Mike is so much bigger than him. He's so much bigger than him.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  He's not gonna land a fist on Mayweather.

• 1:09:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  Not after his last performance. You know, I think Tyson just.

• 1:09:34Joe Rogan?

  What do you think was going on with that, the last one? It looked a little bit like sparring.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I think it was scripted.

• 1:09:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  I ain't never seen Tyson biting his gloves and like, you could just, it was taking all that he could not to like hit him. He. It was just like, it's, it's, it's heartbreaking to see a icon go out like that.

• 1:09:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  You know, and.

• 1:09:59Joe Rogan?

  But it's crazy also to see him fight at 57 years old, like that's nuts.

• 1:10:02Speaker 01

  Still like, he shouldn't have been in there. At all, you know, I think it's

• 1:10:08Joe Rogan?

  He needed the money.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  It's other ways.

• 1:10:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  You know, it's other ways for.

• 1:10:11Joe Rogan?

  But what did he get? He got at least twenty, right?

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, but still, I think.

• 1:10:16Joe Rogan?

  But I think he needed that money.

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, but with all his connections and things like that, I think people could have put him in the right position to make some money.

• 1:10:25Joe Rogan?

  If he's got people with him that are looking out for his best interest, but you know how it is. When there's a guy like that, that's a big name, usually everybody around him pretends they're looking out for their best interests. But there's always lawsuits later on, you find out someone was stealing money or not paying him what he deserved. There's always a bunch of bullshit involved.

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, unfortunately, especially if you're not business minded, which I don't know if Mike is, but most fighters aren't. Most fighters concentrate on fighting.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:54Joe Rogan?

  To be business minded, that's a giant distraction. You gotta pay attention to all this other shit. On top of that, it's generally not how they think.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:02Joe Rogan?

  You know? I mean, look at Floyd, like Floyd spends money like it's a tap, like he's got a tap, just, it's just like unlimited amount of money. Ah, money's just flowing. And even as much money as he's made in his career, which he's probably made as much, if not more money than any boxer ever. Like, there's all these lawsuits, like he hasn't been paying things and he owes money on this and owes money on that. And it's like, and then he's gotta come out of retirement.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's tough.

• 1:11:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  That's tough. I think it's just the lifestyle that Floyd lived.

• 1:11:36Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  I think he can't fathom to just live a modest lifestyle. It's like he gotta be lavish.

• 1:11:44Joe Rogan?

  Right. He's gotta have those videos where he shows you all the watches, where he opens the case up, you know?

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  All the money, he gotta show that he got a million dollars in his backpack.

• 1:11:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  You know, he got the latest watch and the latest car and look what I just bought.

• 1:12:00Joe Rogan?

  And when you get into latest watches and latest cars, you get into that shit, like, boy, that money goes quick.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:07Joe Rogan?

  Bugattis are like three million, there's watches that are three, five million. That's crazy. So you buy a watch and a car, you're down ten. That's nuts. That's nuts.

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:12:18Joe Rogan?

  I remember Iran Barkley was talking about that. Iran Barkley, when he was in his prime, was hanging out with all these professional athletes. And everybody was getting diamond-crusted chains and this and that, and he was keeping up with these people. Like, you gotta keep up with the Joneses. And he just found himself, like, draining all of his money. He was talking about it, like, that was the biggest detriment to him being able to save any money.

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. They trying to keep up.

• 1:12:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Which I thought was funny, when I, I was listening to this conversation with Chad Ocho Cinco. He was talking about it.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  Wow, his jewelry fake.

• 1:12:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, his word fake jewelry.

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  But who would know?

• 1:12:57Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  Who would know?

• 1:12:58Joe Rogan?

  No would know, exactly.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  It's like, when they look at it, like.

• 1:13:01Joe Rogan?

  Flying economy. He was sleeping at the stadium, like, so he didn't have to pay for a department. So smart.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:09Joe Rogan?

  So clever, you know? But that's a guy, like, preparing.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  And nobody gonna question him, you know?

• 1:13:14Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  Oh, man, this NFL star, he got money.

• 1:13:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  You know, so we not going to question if his dime is real or not.

• 1:13:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, you really can't tell.

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:23Joe Rogan?

  I can't, I mean, you can't tell until you get a magnifying glass on them.

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  Or, that's why they say, "We got these diamond testers." They wanna test your diamonds now, like, come on now.

• 1:13:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  It's just a all- illusion, anyway.

• 1:13:36Joe Rogan?

  Do you fuck around with any of that stuff?

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  I got jewelry, but I'm not paying all that money for no jewelry.

• 1:13:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  No, we can get some sponsorships.

• 1:13:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  But me keep spending hundreds and millions of dollars on jewelry, nah, nah, I mean.

• 1:13:52Joe Rogan?

  It's just not smart.

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:53Joe Rogan?

  And you don't get out of it what it costs. Like, if you think about how much

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:13:58Joe Rogan?

  Blood, sweat, what?

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Sometimes you do.

• 1:14:01Joe Rogan?

  What do you get?

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  Now, if you buy it from the factory, now, if you get you a Rolex from the Rolex store, you know, you might can get some money back from it.

• 1:14:11Joe Rogan?

  You could flip it.

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:13Joe Rogan?

  That's true.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  Now, now, buzz nails, no. But if you get it from the actual store, the Protect store, the Rolex store.

• 1:14:20Joe Rogan?

  That's true.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  Them type of stores.

• 1:14:22Joe Rogan?

  Keep the box and the papers.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:24Joe Rogan?

  It's worth a lot of, it's worth more money.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Then it's an investment, but all them other ones, the chains and stuff like that, no. You don't never see a billionaire with no chain.

• 1:14:32Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  You see it with a good watch, though.

• 1:14:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  It was a good one.

• 1:14:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's true. It's just the trappings of fame and also showing everybody that you have that money. The trappings of wealth, you know, competing with getting your own private jet, all that stuff. It's like, ooh.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  I learned from them. I learned from them because the people with the real wealth, you don't know they got the wealth.

• 1:14:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:15:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  They walk around plain Jane clothes, know nothing.

• 1:15:04Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:15:04Speaker 01

  You know, but the people that have a little bit of money, they want you to know that they got a little bit of money, but they don't have the wealth.

• 1:15:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  So I'd rather be wealthy than rich any day of the week.

• 1:15:16Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:01Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:46Joe Rogan?

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• 1:17:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And keep it.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:27Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing, because a lot of what wealth is, is never having to worry about money. That's the big thing. Just have that money invested, have that money making money for you. Don't spend it all on stupid shit. Live a modest life, live a normal life. You're much better off. Especially a professional athlete, because you have such a small window of time. I mean, a lot of men don't even make their real money until they're deep in their 40s and 50s.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Or the end of 30s.

• 1:17:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  Look at Floyd, when he fought Delahoya, then he fought Gotti, then he started making some real money.

• 1:18:05Joe Rogan?

  Yes. But I mean, that's for a pro athlete, but for most of these like really wealthy business people, that most of them, unless they're tech investors,

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:16Joe Rogan?

  They're making their money later in life. And so you have all this opportunity to keep growing your wealth, but when you're an athlete, you've got a small window of your prime. Your prime is essentially like, maybe 20 years. Maybe 20 years you can make money, from 20 to 40. But what, for a pro athlete, unless you're Tom Brady, 40 is the end, or unless you're Bernard. Bernard was fighting at a world-class level at 49, 50 years old, which is crazy.

• 1:18:44Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:18:45Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  But that's because he take care of his body.

• 1:18:48Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  You don't put nothing crazy.

• 1:18:49Joe Rogan?

  Super disciplined, never gets out of shape, never puts any bullshit in his body, and also that mind. Set of what what he learned when he was incarcerated. Like that like discipline is everything. Discipline, discipline, never knowing you're never going back to that. Don't buy anything stupid, don't be dumb with your money, don't be dumb with your body. Take care of yourself, never get out of shape, always keep your conditioning up. So when you go into camp, you're not struggling to get back in shape again, you're already in shape. Now you're just working on your skills and honing everything to a razor sharp edge.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  I think that goes to, like I said before, the people that you have around you. You know, that wanna see you be successful and the people that you can learn from and the people that you can get advice from. You know, um, when they see you about to do something that you shouldn't do, they be like, hey, man, we we ain't doing that. Come on, let's go, or they'll call you be like, let's go run, I'm I'm not doing that, let's go jog or. Let's go to the gym or let's go eat some healthy food. People that wanna see you be successful, not the ones that say, hey, let's go party, let's go drink, let's go do this.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  I think those the people that you need to get a get from around you.

• 1:20:04Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  The ones that see you doing things that you shouldn't be doing, but that's cool with them seeing you doing that.

• 1:20:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's also the problem with an entourage too.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:20:14Joe Rogan?

  These guys are role with an entourage, you always got one dude who's fucking up in that entourage and there's conflicts in the entourage between dudes. And it's like you're managing all team of knuckleheads, it's like, oh, God. Just so they can roll deep when you show up at a place. You have thirty dudes hop out of SUVs, like, oh, he's here, he's here, look at that group behind him.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  I don't need none of that.

• 1:20:35Joe Rogan?

  That's beautiful. That's a valuable lesson for young fighters to see your example. It's a va- I'm glad you live the way you live, I really am, I really am, cuz I think it's so important for guys to see. So let me ask you this, when you were training for Canelo, what did you do different? So knowing that you're gonna be fighting at one sixty-eight instead of fifty-four or forty-seven, what what did you do different? And in terms of, did you do anything different in far about strength and conditioning? How long did you prepare, like, I know you were thinking about that fight for a long time. But like when you were physically preparing for it, knowing that you're gonna be fighting him at sixty-eight, what did you do different?

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  To be honest, I didn't do nothing different.

• 1:21:15Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  It's crazy, like, all my fights. There's nothing different, you know, we trained for me. Me getting sharper, what I need to work on, what I'm lacking in. But the only thing that I changed for the fight with Canelo is Chet, my strength and condition coach, he got me in February. He called me up, he like, "Hey, we gonna get this fight." He just kept saying, "We gonna get it." So you need to be working out now. So this way before I ever got to Canelo fight. So I'm like, "All right." So he come over to my house, we'll work out, we'll work out, we'll work out.

• 1:21:53Joe Rogan?

  What kind of stuff were you doing?

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  Just strength work, just strength work.

• 1:21:56Joe Rogan?

  Like deadlifts, like what kind of stuff?

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  Deadlifts, strength and condition, like deadlifts, working on good legs and things like that. And just getting my body just, you know, back to where it need to be, you know? And he just like, "Man, you gotta strengthen up your shoulders and things like that." And because quiet as kept, I had just had shoulder surgery.

• 1:22:18Joe Rogan?

  You did?

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I just, you know, there's a lot of things that I go through in training, but I don't speak about because I don't never want it to be an excuse, you know? That's just one of the injuries that I was coming off of. But yeah, he was just like, "Man, we gotta work, we gotta work."

• 1:22:40Joe Rogan?

  So what was the shoulder injury?

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  Labrum.

• 1:22:43Joe Rogan?

  Labrum, yeah. So did you get it sewed back up?

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:46Joe Rogan?

  Did you get stem cells shot in there at all?

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 1:22:48Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  I just had surgery on.

• 1:22:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man, I wish I talked to you.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  The front and the back.

• 1:22:52Joe Rogan?

  I wish I talked to you about that.

• 1:22:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:54Joe Rogan?

  Could've got you in.

• 1:22:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't get, I didn't get it on my left shoulder. So I tore both of them. Well, I tore my left in the Gamboa fight.

• 1:23:04Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:05Joe Rogan?

  And you never got it fixed?

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  Never.

• 1:23:07Joe Rogan?

  Is it okay now or does it fuck with you?

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  It's still torn.

• 1:23:09Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  But the doctors say if it's not preventing you from working out, then they wouldn't advise me to get surgery.

• 1:23:17Joe Rogan?

  Do you feel it? Does it bother you?

• 1:23:18Speaker 01

  Sometimes, but not really, like it bothered me like sometimes, but like not crazy.

• 1:23:23Joe Rogan?

  How long you in town for?

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  I leave after this.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  But the right one, that was crazy. Like, it was hurting when I was sleeping after the Majumma fight.

• 1:23:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, after the Majumma fight. It was like throbbing and then it was just like, man, we better get it done. But he was just on me, like, we gotta do physical therapy, we gotta do this, we gotta do this. And it was just like, alright, let's go. So he was just on me. He was just speaking it into existence. He was like, man, you gonna get this fight. I can feel it. I can feel it. So like, I started training for Canelo in February. I wasn't, you know, more so doing boxing workout, but I was just getting my body prepared to, you know, go to camp and when I start back to go.

• 1:24:08Joe Rogan?

  So, strength work is like the basics, strength training. But like, what kind of conditioning were you doing?

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  Oh, no, nothing different. Like, running, swimming, things like that.

• 1:24:20Joe Rogan?

  And you didn't try to put on any weight? Just tried to like be able to walk around where it is?

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  Just tighten it up, you know, with the, with the strength work. Just tighten it up. That was it.

• 1:24:31Joe Rogan?

  Damn, I wish I knew that you had a problem with your shoulder. I could get you back in town. There's a place called Waste Well that I work with here that does stem cells that, that helps so many fighters out. A lot of UFC guys come here. A lot of, a lot of pro athletes come here. NFL guys come here just to, to get stem cells. It's like state of the art facility. It's really good. And it could help you.

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:54Joe Rogan?

  Just, I bet it could heal that labrum.

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 1:24:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  We'll see.

• 1:24:58Joe Rogan?

  Especially now, because you're not gonna beat it up as much anymore.

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:01Joe Rogan?

  Obviously, I'm sure you're still working out. You look great.

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  No, I'm actually not.

• 1:25:05Joe Rogan?

  Not working out at all? Nothing?

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  No, I've been chilling.

• 1:25:10Joe Rogan?

  You earned it!

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  Hey, I've been, I've been putting on my time and my kids and just, you know, relaxing and not having to worry about running and waking up in the morning.

• 1:25:20Joe Rogan?

  Did they offer you a rematch?

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  Nah.

• 1:25:22Joe Rogan?

  They didn't? Cause there was talk that they offered you a rematch, but you wanted a hundred million.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  Nah, that's a lie.

• 1:25:27Joe Rogan?

  All internet bullshit?

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  That's a lie. There wasn't even no, no rematch in the, in the contract. There was no, no conversation about a rematch. There still haven't been a conversation about a rematch. I've seen Canelo said that he want a rematch, but nobody has reached out to me and said, hey, Terrence, what you think about a rematch or anything like that? So, let's put that out there.

• 1:25:50Joe Rogan?

  Is there a number that, that would bring you back?

• 1:25:53Speaker 01

  I don't know, like... Me personally, I can't say it is, you know.

• 1:25:59Joe Rogan?

  You're just not compelled.

• 1:26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, not at all.

• 1:26:01Joe Rogan?

  You did it.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:02Joe Rogan?

  Did it perfect.

• 1:26:04Speaker 01

  It's like, I'm not, the motivation, I'm always motivated by competing and, you know, things like that. But like, when it comes to like boxing, it's like, I did it all.

• 1:26:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:17Speaker 01

  Like, it's like, I checked everything off the checkbox. So it's like, uh, it wasn't close.

• 1:26:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:26:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  I beat him, you know, decisively. So what am I doing it for?

• 1:26:31Joe Rogan?

  I think I might have give him one or maybe two rounds, more like one.

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:36Joe Rogan?

  It was mostly, there was, I think it was like, maybe the fifth, he had a really good fifth round.

• 1:26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, the fifth round, he had a good fifth round.

• 1:26:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But other than that, man, especially the ninth round, woo, woo.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  And he headbutted me, he headbutted me on purpose.

• 1:26:51Joe Rogan?

  Did he?

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:26:53Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  Yes. I was like, man. And he was like, sorry, champion. I was like, this motherfucker.

• 1:26:59Joe Rogan?

  He just got a little angry, a little frustrated?

• 1:27:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little frustrated, but it's a fight. Like, anytime I'm in a fight, I don't, I don't complain about nothing. If somebody hit me in the back of the head, or they hit me below the waist, or anything like that, I never complain. Because I'm so aggressive, I'm like, it's a fight. You know what I mean? Like, they trying to do whatever they can to win. It's up to this referee to step in. Because if he don't, then I'm gonna take matters in my own hands, and I'm gonna do the same thing. So, uh, I don't complain. I'm just like, bam. I was a little frustrated, and I was like, man, all right.

• 1:27:36Speaker 01

  All right, breathe, let's get back to work.

• 1:27:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, don't lose your composure.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:27:39Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem with getting angry, right?

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:27:43Joe Rogan?

  But yeah, that ninth round, woo, that's when you really start separating.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:48Joe Rogan?

  You really start pouring it on. I was wondering if you're gonna stop him. When the ninth round was coming, when you were cracking him with some big shots, I'm like, whoa.

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  So I told my coach. When we was in there, he was like, you don't gotta do that. You don't gotta, because they, they know, they know me and I'm like, man, I can go for it. And, you know, and it's just like, they, they just know me. They know my demeanor and it was like, you don't gotta give them a chance. Just keep doing what you doing. You boxing the shit out of them. You, you winning hands down, don't give them a chance. You don't gotta box them, you don't gotta do that, you winning. So it's just like me wanting to listen to my coaches all the time because that's, I have that much faith in them. If they tell me to go out there and use my jab the whole fight, that's what I'm gonna do because that's the belief I have in them, you know?

• 1:28:38Speaker 01

  And I just like, alright, the last round, I was like, alright, let me win this round and separate myself. You know, and I felt like I hurt them bad in that round.

• 1:28:51Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:28:52Speaker 01

  You know, but it's boxing.

• 1:28:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, he's got a crazy chin.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:58Joe Rogan?

  He's got a crazy chin. I mean, it's, it's something unusual.

• 1:29:03Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:29:04Joe Rogan?

  You don't think so?

• 1:29:05Speaker 01

  No, they say redheads is hard to knock out.

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  It's proven. Yeah, I Googled it, what is they call, what, uh?

• 1:29:14Joe Rogan?

  Gingers?

• 1:29:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, gingers.

• 1:29:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  I promise you, when you look it up.

• 1:29:18Joe Rogan?

  They have a higher pain tolerance, supposedly, yeah.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  When you look it up, I looked it up because my cousin, she's a, a nurse. And she said, yeah, them gingers, they hard to put to sleep, even when you giving them the aesthetics to go to sleep.

• 1:29:33Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:35Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  Anesthesia.

• 1:29:36Joe Rogan?

  Redheads often possess a unique pain profile, generally exhibiting a higher threshold for specific types of pain like heat or pressure, but requiring nineteen to twenty percent more general anesthesia.

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:47Joe Rogan?

  Wow, or higher, nineteen to twenty percent is a lot. Or higher doses of certain anesthetics to reach the same level of comfort. That's crazy. Largely due to the mutated MC1R gene, which affects nerve sensitivity, can lead to increased sensitivity to pain, and paradoxical increased sensitivity to some opioids. Interesting. Interesting. Increased sensitivity to opioids is interesting.

• 1:30:14Speaker 01

  When she told me that, I Googled it, and I was like, damn. That's why Canelo, you know, I mean, can take so many good shots. Yeah.

• 1:30:23Joe Rogan?

  That does make sense. Well, you know, Neanderthals supposedly had red hair. So maybe like redheads have more Neanderthal genes.

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 1:30:32Joe Rogan?

  You know, the Neanderthals were brutally strong. I wonder if that's where it comes from.

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  I thought she was playing at first.

• 1:30:38Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:30:40Speaker 01

  She was like, man, well, we be trying to put them to sleep. It'd be harder to put them to sleep than normal people. So I started Googling, and I like, fucking right.

• 1:30:49Joe Rogan?

  Nineteen to 20% is nuts. That's a lot. That's like the difference between killing someone and them just going to sleep. Like, you give them an extra 20%, they might not wake up.

• 1:30:59Speaker 01

  Facts.

• 1:31:00Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. Nineteen to 20% is wild. Well, I was talking to Jim Lampley, and I didn't know this, but Canelo has always been riding horses since he was young.

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  That's good for his balance.

• 1:31:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:13Speaker 01

  And legs.

• 1:31:13Joe Rogan?

  And legs, yeah. It's his base. That's a big part of it. Also, he's got that thick fucking neck, big square head.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  Like he been doing an iron neck all this life.

• 1:31:22Speaker 03

  Quick search says Neanderthals have a different mutation that actually gives them more sensitivity to pain.

• 1:31:28Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:31:29Speaker 03

  Than most humans.

• 1:31:30Joe Rogan?

  More sensitivity?

• 1:31:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:32Joe Rogan?

  Lower threshold. Interesting.

• 1:31:35Speaker 03

  That's like the opposite.

• 1:31:36Joe Rogan?

  Wow, even though they're redheaded.

• 1:31:39Speaker 01

  So he ain't one of them. He ain't one of them.

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  Eat the other one.

• 1:31:46Joe Rogan?

  It's one of those Mexican redheads.

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:31:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's wild. That's crazy. But yeah, I never thought the horse thing, like Lampley was explaining, it's like, yeah, the balance and the legs because you're constantly squeezing down on that horse and you're constantly adjusting and your core and everything. I'm like, oh, I never even thought of that. I would just think, fuck it, why are you riding horses when you're a world champion? Don't do that. People fall off horses, they break their fucking neck. Don't do that.

• 1:32:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I seen a guy break his arm. They wanted me to take a picture on the horse and my bro Manny was like, man, I don't know about these fucking horses. These horses be crazy. I said, man, I rode horses before. He was like, yeah, but it's a lot of people around. And he asking the guy about the horses and the other guy was like, yeah, he can get on this horse. So I get on the horse, I take the horse, I take the picture and I get off. No longer than like 10 minutes, this guy on his own horse, his horse just buck, go crazy. Buck him off. Boom, he broke his arm. This in the parade and the horse is just running wild.

• 1:32:56Speaker 01

  I'm like, he said, see, see, this is what I was telling you. He was going crazy. He was like, see, I told you these fucking horses. Yeah. But it wasn't the same horse. It was a different horse.

• 1:33:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:06Speaker 01

  But he was just like, see, that's why I was telling you, these horses be fucking crazy.

• 1:33:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you just never know with animals. You just, my oldest daughter got into horses for a while. One of her friends used to do those things where, you know, the horse jumps over a thing and like, you know, they have like a whole obstacle course. And she was getting into that and she fell once and she was okay and then she fell a second time. She hurt her wrist pretty bad. I was like, honey, you gotta stop. You can't be doing, this is too dangerous. Because like those kind of injuries you get falling off a horse, especially if you get stomped, those are life changing.

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  Especially if you get tied up, tied up.

• 1:33:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:33:42Speaker 01

  I didn't seen videos of people getting bucked in their legs. They just a rag doll getting beat up.

• 1:33:49Joe Rogan?

  Getting stomped in the head. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, horses, fuck that. Fuck that. I know quite a few people that have fallen off horses and been okay, but like, why? Why do it?

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:34:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:04Speaker 01

  Texas Ranger.

• 1:34:06Joe Rogan?

  Everybody wants to be cowboy. They watch Yellowstone two hundred times.

• 1:34:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, everybody wanna be a cowboy.

• 1:34:11Joe Rogan?

  It's funny, we were talking to Andre Ward on the phone today when you had Andre on FaceTime and you were talking about burbles.

• 1:34:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:18Joe Rogan?

  But I've been going down this burbural rabbit hole, those mastiffs.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:34:25Joe Rogan?

  I'm fascinated by them, man. The South African mastiffs, they used to keep lions and hyenas away from the farms. You know, and we were talking about coyotes, like, you got land now, you know, you're just, you're relaxing now. So I like it, separated from everything, got some space.

• 1:34:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's crazy because when I was building the house, you know, a lot of people was like, oh, he's he's building a house on the aerospace money and this and that and this. I'm like, dude, do you know how long the process is of building houses? Like, this is not no week or two, two-month deal, you know what I mean? Like.

• 1:35:06Joe Rogan?

  It's years.

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, like.

• 1:35:07Joe Rogan?

  Just from design to the beginning of construction, it's years.

• 1:35:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. You gotta go pick out every fucking thing in the house. You know, I bought that land in two thousand sixteen.

• 1:35:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:35:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  And I just was sitting on it. It was a house there already, you know, I had it ran out to one of my buddies, my best friend at that. You know, and when the time came, I had more kids, so, you know, it was better that I waited than to build then, so I just was like, man, it's time. You know, it's more peaceful out there, the kids, they ride the four-wheelers out there, we can shoot out there.

• 1:35:45Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  We can, we can do whatever we want out there and it's just, you know, peaceful to wake up to the sunrise and, you know, the, the nature calling.

• 1:35:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:56Speaker 01

  Ain't nothing like it.

• 1:35:57Joe Rogan?

  That's the dream.

• 1:35:58Speaker 01

  It's definitely the dream.

• 1:35:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for a lot of people. That's nice. That's nice. It's nice to see someone just setting their life upright.

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:06Joe Rogan?

  You know? I'm just amazed that you don't get the itch at all.

• 1:36:11Speaker 01

  I'm more competitive in other sports, you know?

• 1:36:15Joe Rogan?

  Like what?

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  Like basketball, football, I'm anything. I ain't gonna lie, anything I do is like, I gotta compete. I gotta compete darts, pool, like whatever. You remember I came in here like, you wanna play pool? You're like, let's do it. I was like, no, I'll just play. You can't kick my ass on camera. I heard that you was good.

• 1:36:38Joe Rogan?

  I fucked Lex Lewis up. He was talking a lot of shit. Lex Lewis never got a shot. I read two racks on him and he was like, we're done.

• 1:36:48Speaker 01

  I came in here, uh, pump faking you.

• 1:36:52Joe Rogan?

  I knew though.

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  Already knowing.

• 1:36:54Speaker 04

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• 1:37:25Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:10Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just like to have fun, you know.

• 1:38:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, everyone who is an elite athlete is insanely competitive.

• 1:38:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:32Joe Rogan?

  You know, that's the problem, though, is unfortunately, some of them get involved in gambling. You know, like that's the Michael Jordan thing.

• 1:38:38Speaker 01

  That's what we were just talking about, man, Drake. He was like, "You gamble?" I said, "Man, I ain't never gamble."

• 1:38:42Joe Rogan?

  Good for you. Stay the fuck away.

• 1:38:44Speaker 01

  A lot of people was always asking me, "Why you don't gamble on your fights?" I'm, "No, I don't gamble at all."

• 1:38:50Joe Rogan?

  Good for you.

• 1:38:51Speaker 01

  You know, they was like, "Oh, well, we see you, when you, when you gambled on the, the streamer, you know, Aiden Ross." I said, "That was only because he called me out with my brother."

• 1:39:02Joe Rogan?

  What did you do? What was that?

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  He bet me 10,000 that TFimo was gonna whoop Shakur.

• 1:39:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's a crazy bet.

• 1:39:08Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So it was just like...

• 1:39:10Joe Rogan?

  That's a silly bet.

• 1:39:11Speaker 01

  He called me out on, on, on live, you know, streams, so I, I'm never gonna back down from that.

• 1:39:17Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 1:39:18Speaker 01

  I'm riding with Shakur till the wheels fall off, you know?

• 1:39:22Joe Rogan?

  That's also like, if, if I was making odds, I'm putting like a 6 to 1.

• 1:39:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, that's a crazy, flat-out bet.

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:29Joe Rogan?

  You're not even getting any odds on the money, and, and you're putting it on TV. No disrespect to TFimo, but I think that Shakur is, he has the potential to be an all-time great.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, he will be.

• 1:39:40Joe Rogan?

  I believe so.

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  He will be. All he gotta do is keep doing what he doing, stay focused, and that's it. It's just, with, with, with fighters like Shakur, Devin, it's all about staying focused.

• 1:39:54Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  You know, when these young fighters get to the, the pinnacle of boxing, and they got everything at their disposal, sometimes they get caught up in the, the limelight and the things that really don't matter. You know, and as long as they stay focused and keep their eye on the prize of where they wanna go, and where they want their legacy to land, they're gonna be just fine.

• 1:40:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  Because it's easy for them...

• 1:40:25Speaker 01

  To get caught up and wanna be a fan pleasing fighter. You know, listening to the masses, oh, they need to fight like this, or I don't wanna see them fight because all they do is run, or all they do is fight like this, and they pity pat, they ain't got no power, this and that and that. It's boxing, they winning. All they gotta do is keep winning, that's it.

• 1:40:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, look at Floyd later in his life. Like Floyd later in his life fought so safe, but yet made so much money because he talked so much shit.

• 1:40:56Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:40:57Joe Rogan?

  That people were spending money hoping he was gonna lose.

• 1:41:00Speaker 01

  And he's not the first one that did that. Tyson.

• 1:41:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:04Speaker 01

  Roy Jones Jr.

• 1:41:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:06Speaker 01

  Muhammad Ali.

• 1:41:07Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  And I always, I said this when I was with Ty Rain, I said, why is it only the black fighters that gotta talk shit to, to sell?

• 1:41:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, MMA, it's white fighters too. Conor McGregor.

• 1:41:23Speaker 01

  No, no, no, Conor McGregor, you know, I say he one of us. You know, because they was treated like black people over there where he from. You know, a lot of people don't know that.

• 1:41:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, a lot of Irish slavers.

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  They was, they was treated just like us, so, you know, I, I, I consider him one of us, you know, but at the same time, you know, in boxing, it's always the black fighters gotta be the ones that step out and play this circus role and, you know, be the, be the one to talk shit and have everybody hate them, but the ones that don't, like Andre Ward, Terence Crawford, Tim Bradley, you know, they boring, or they can't sell, things like that. Is you judging me for what I say or what I do in the ring?

• 1:42:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is the difference with casuals versus people that really appreciate excellent boxing.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  Cause I knock people out.

• 1:42:24Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 1:42:25Speaker 01

  That's what people want to see. They wanna see action, and I'm gonna give them action.

• 1:42:28Joe Rogan?

  But I think for casuals, they wanna see a lot of shit talking too for some reason. They wanna get emotionally wrapped up in your conflict with this other person.

• 1:42:38Speaker 01

  But they pick and choose.

• 1:42:39Joe Rogan?

  They do sometimes. Yeah, they do sometimes. But I mean, like, look, Tyson Fury talks a lot of shit.

• 1:42:45Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:46Joe Rogan?

  And obviously, one of the greatest of all time, you know, talked a lot of shit, sold a lot of tickets, you know? Singing and shit.

• 1:42:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:53Joe Rogan?

  After the fights, that guy's great.

• 1:42:55Speaker 01

  And his draws, and his draws and his cut. Legendary.

• 1:42:59Joe Rogan?

  He's a legend.

• 1:42:59Speaker 01

  Legendary.

• 1:43:00Joe Rogan?

  He's a legend. I mean, that guy.

• 1:43:04Speaker 01

  But he from a different country.

• 1:43:06Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:43:06Speaker 01

  You know what I mean, so.

• 1:43:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:08Speaker 01

  You gotta understand, like, he bringing those people over here and they gonna support him win, lose or draw.

• 1:43:13Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  You know, when we went over to the UK and we watched Amir Khan fight Kell Brook, it was electric fire and those guys had losses, been both and stopped and all that. You know, but those people came out to support like a motherfucker.

• 1:43:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:43:34Speaker 01

  And I left, and I left that arena like, god damn, and I wish I was, you know, from the UK, you know, like, because the way they support boxing, they don't look at, oh, since you lost, you know, we not gonna support you. They look at, no, these is warriors and we not gonna stop supporting them because they lost.

• 1:43:53Joe Rogan?

  That's true. That is true about the UK.

• 1:43:55Speaker 01

  America, they like, man, you got your ass whooped, huh, on to the next. You're bummed, you washed, you ain't as good as you said you was, or we thought you was. And it's just like, they, they chew you up and spit you out and it's like, god damn. You know how hard it is to stay at the top of a sport that everybody's gunning from you?

• 1:44:15Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:44:16Speaker 01

  You know, that's, that shit hard, like.

• 1:44:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the culture of America though, right? It's a bit of a problem.

• 1:44:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:23Joe Rogan?

  I, it disgusts me with fighting.

• 1:44:25Speaker 01

  It's not like that in the UFC though.

• 1:44:26Joe Rogan?

  It is.

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  Not so much.

• 1:44:28Joe Rogan?

  There's plenty of, plenty of people. Well, the UFC, it's not as important to be.

• 1:44:33Speaker 01

  I'm about to say it's only like a couple of people in the UFC that was undefeated.

• 1:44:38Joe Rogan?

  Very few.

• 1:44:38Speaker 01

  You know, you got Khabib.

• 1:44:40Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  You got, uh, uh, Jon Jones, he had that one little loss.

• 1:44:45Joe Rogan?

  That's a bullshit loss.

• 1:44:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but everybody know that was bullshit loss.

• 1:44:48Joe Rogan?

  He dominated that dude.

• 1:44:48Speaker 01

  Um, uh, uh, my boy, my boy, uh, Sohudo, he, he just finally lost with, uh, not too long.

• 1:44:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, he lost a bunch of times. He lost to Mighty Mouse early on, then he came back and beat Mighty Mouse to win it for the title.

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  But like. Everybody else be having like five losses and stuff like that and they be at the top of the top. You know, and everybody still support him, but don't nobody go, oh, he got five losses, he trash, he this, that. No, I just.

• 1:45:18Joe Rogan?

  That's true.

• 1:45:18Speaker 01

  Maybe it was off night.

• 1:45:20Joe Rogan?

  There's something to that because I think it's more difficult to not lose in MMA. There's just too many different styles, there's too many different approaches, too many variables. And it's also so difficult to not be hurt in training before you fight. When you're grappling, kicking legs, elbows, all that shit.

• 1:45:38Speaker 01

  Jiu Jitsu.

• 1:45:39Joe Rogan?

  Training, Jiu Jitsu, you know, you're manipulating joints, there's so many different things that can get fucked up. I mean, think about all the things that get fucked up just with your hands, just boxing, shoulders, back, knees.

• 1:45:50Speaker 01

  Ribs.

• 1:45:51Joe Rogan?

  Ribs, yeah.

• 1:45:53Speaker 01

  Neck.

• 1:45:54Joe Rogan?

  Yep, neck, sure. Yeah, yeah, and then add getting dumped on your head, add, you know, getting kneed in the face, add getting your legs kicked. Knees buckled.

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  Toes broke.

• 1:46:06Joe Rogan?

  Toes broke, yeah. I mean, Pereira fought a world title fight with a broken toe.

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:12Joe Rogan?

  Just came in and fought with it and afterwards toes all fucked up and crooked to the side and he like adjusts it, pops it into place, yeah.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  It's tough for them, for combat sports, you know, and people don't know, like I said, they don't know what we go through. We don't never walk in a, a world class fight, you know, the same or a hundred percent healthy. Like everybody just be like, oh, man, I'm a hundred percent, no the fuck you're not.

• 1:46:37Joe Rogan?

  It's not possible. There's always gonna be something that's bothering you. If you're going through a ten week camp, how is, how, how is it even possible to not have something?

• 1:46:49Speaker 01

  If they bullshitting, but it's gonna show in the fight. It shows in the fight.

• 1:46:53Joe Rogan?

  But don't they, everybody always, nobody says, I'm pretty fucked up going into this fight, but I'm hoping it works out. Nobody says that.

• 1:46:58Speaker 01

  Nobody say that.

• 1:46:59Joe Rogan?

  No, I mean, it's just, it's the game.

• 1:47:03Speaker 01

  When they talked about my shoulder, you know, before the Canelo fight, I was just like, I don't know, what shit, tell them to hit me in both of my shoulders.

• 1:47:12Speaker 01

  It don't matter, like my shoulder is healed, like, yeah.

• 1:47:16Joe Rogan?

  How long did it take before it felt a hundred percent again?

• 1:47:20Speaker 01

  After the fight.

• 1:47:21Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:47:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause I got it on Halloween.

• 1:47:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you got it in October?

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:27Joe Rogan?

  And then how many months did you have to recover?

• 1:47:29Speaker 01

  I fought September.

• 1:47:31Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, okay.

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  So that wasn't even a year.

• 1:47:34Joe Rogan?

  Not even a year? And when did you really start training hard again after the surgery?

• 1:47:40Speaker 01

  Uh, probably

• 1:47:44Speaker 01

  April.

• 1:47:45Joe Rogan?

  Okay. That's a good amount of time. Yeah. And people don't realize like shoulders is such a complicated joint. There's all this different movement to it.

• 1:47:55Speaker 01

  And it still wasn't like, like a hundred percent after I fought.

• 1:47:59Joe Rogan?

  Cause you didn't have your strength all the way back to, even after you fought.

• 1:48:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, like it wasn't a hundred percent.

• 1:48:04Joe Rogan?

  So it wasn't a hundred percent in the fight?

• 1:48:06Speaker 01

  Mm-mm.

• 1:48:10Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:48:10Speaker 01

  I always tell people like, if you watch my jab and my hook in the Canelo fight, then watch my jab and my hook, my prior fights, you know, and Magic Off and Spence, you'll see the difference.

• 1:48:25Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:48:26Speaker 01

  You know, but the blind eye wouldn't even notice it.

• 1:48:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:48:30Speaker 01

  You know, they would just be like, ah.

• 1:48:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, it still is effective.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, but then, but then when they know, they'd be like, it wasn't as snappy. It wasn't as hard.

• 1:48:38Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:48:39Speaker 01

  You know, you kinda was just like landing out there. So, that's just little key, little things.

• 1:48:45Joe Rogan?

  But now it's a hundred percent?

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, it's good now.

• 1:48:47Joe Rogan?

  Wow. And the left one doesn't bother you really?

• 1:48:51Speaker 01

  Uh, the left one, it bothered me when I, when it's overused.

• 1:48:56Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  You know, but like, not, in a fight? Nah, I don't think none of that shit bothered me.

• 1:49:03Joe Rogan?

  Do you have any plans to come back in town?

• 1:49:05Speaker 01

  Nah, nah.

• 1:49:06Joe Rogan?

  Can we get you back in town and get you some stem cells?

• 1:49:08Speaker 01

  You know, the, the only time I ever came here was this podcast. Never ever been here in my life.

• 1:49:14Joe Rogan?

  Really? Oh, it's a great city.

• 1:49:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Julie always talked about it.

• 1:49:19Joe Rogan?

  So many good restaurants, so many good places.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  She took me to the, uh, college and all that and, you know, reminiscing, cause she went to college here and she just love it here. So she like, this is the pores that we. We went to this, this, this, this. And I'm like, oh Julie, you're a happy place, huh? She was like, I just love here. Well, why not move here?

• 1:49:37Joe Rogan?

  It's a great town. I love it to death. But if you want to come back, I would love to get you set up, get your shoulder taken care of. It'll change your life. Stem cells, wild, man. It's crazy what it can do. It just regenerates tissue, everything heals. Within like weeks, you start feeling better. You're like, God. Everything just feels looser.

• 1:49:57Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:49:58Joe Rogan?

  I've had so many friends that were like on the verge of getting surgery, like, I don't know, doctor says I need surgery, get stem cells.

• 1:50:05Joe Rogan?

  Everything's good. I had a full-length rotator cuff tear. I went to the doctor six months after the stem cells. He's like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen. He's like, that tear doesn't even exist anymore. It's gone. Completely healed. It's crazy. Like, stem cells are nuts, man. And they're getting better at it all the time. Like, it's just. Pharmaceutical drug companies fucking hate it. Surgeons hate it. Like, doctors hate it because it's gonna, it's gonna cost them money. Cause there's a bunch of people. Yeah, there's a bunch of people that are gonna get treated with stem cells that don't need surgery.

• 1:50:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:50:39Joe Rogan?

  And afterwards, they're like, oh, I'm good. Cause the doctors, like, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And these doctors, the way they make their money is cutting you. And they all want to cut you. And it's amazing how many different, especially soft tissue injuries, how many different injuries you can heal with stem cells. It's pretty remarkable.

• 1:51:00Speaker 01

  My doctor was trying to avoid cutting me.

• 1:51:03Joe Rogan?

  Did he? Well, that's good.

• 1:51:04Speaker 01

  So they waited till, all the way till.

• 1:51:07Joe Rogan?

  That's a good doctor.

• 1:51:07Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:51:09Joe Rogan?

  That's a good doctor.

• 1:51:10Speaker 01

  Till it was like, we got to.

• 1:51:14Joe Rogan?

  And that's after the Majormov fight, right? Yeah. Well, I'd love to get you back in here because I really think they could, they could help that.

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:51:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, especially you got your whole life ahead of you now. You don't want, you know. You don't want that bothering you, fucking with you. You can do whatever you want. And especially now because you're not training hard, ooh, it'll heal good. It'll heal, cause that's the problem. A lot of guys, they get the stem cells and they go back to training in a few weeks and then they kind of, it's not a hundred percent healed and they tweak it a little bit and, you know. But now, if you're not training at all, this is the perfect time to do something like that.

• 1:51:52Joe Rogan?

  So what is your plans now? Now that you're on top of the world?

• 1:51:55Speaker 01

  Man, I just chill.

• 1:51:56Joe Rogan?

  You did it. What does it feel like?

• 1:51:57Speaker 01

  It feel, man, like it supposed to.

• 1:52:00Joe Rogan?

  Like it's supposed to?

• 1:52:01Speaker 01

  It feel like it's supposed to. Like, a lot of people, they ask me, they say, "Man, how I feel?" Like, "How's the retired life?" I'm like, "The same." Like, nothing in my life has changed, but the people everywhere else congratulating me and things like that. But, like, far as, like, my living, you know, aspect of my life is the same. Like, when I'm fighting, training, you know, I'm focused on the fight. But after that, it's like my kids, you know, the gym, things like that.

• 1:52:41Joe Rogan?

  Do you have any interest in doing commentary at all? Because I think you would be great at that.

• 1:52:48Speaker 01

  I don't, I be chilling. I don't be liking to be in the media, talking and all that stuff.

• 1:52:53Joe Rogan?

  You don't even have to be in the media.

• 1:52:54Speaker 01

  I be avoiding the media.

• 1:52:57Speaker 01

  I be avoiding, you know how like some people, like, they wanna be all up in the limelight and things like that?

• 1:53:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:06Speaker 01

  I just be, I be avoiding. They be like, "Dance, can we get in here?" "No, no, no, right now, I don't wanna talk."

• 1:53:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:11Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:53:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, I appreciate you coming in here, though.

• 1:53:12Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for sure, you know, but a lot of people ask me that. Do you wanna be like all the other fighters and be a commentary, you know?

• 1:53:24Joe Rogan?

  Good for you.

• 1:53:25Speaker 01

  I'll be cool.

• 1:53:26Joe Rogan?

  Good for you. That's gonna help you so much. It's gonna help you so much, because it's the people that crave that limelight. When it all goes away, then they're like, "Well, who am I? I thought I was special. I thought I was special." You know, "I wanna be the guy when, 'Oh, he's here, he's here.'" You know, they wanna be constantly in the limelight, showing up at red carpets, all that. I avoid all that shit, too. I don't wanna have nothing to do with that.

• 1:53:48Speaker 01

  I know who I am, you know, internally, you know?

• 1:53:52Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:53:53Speaker 01

  Can't nobody, you know, tell me who Terence Crawford is. So I'm happy in my own skin, always been happy in my own skin. And I believe that's how I got to... The point where I'm at now, you know, when nobody believed in me, I didn't listen to them because I knew who I was all along. When people told me I was a bad businessman, okay, look at me now. You know, when people told me what I should have did and what I shouldn't have done and I did what I wanted to do, look at me now. So now it's like, everybody like, man, this dude was new all along. It's like, yeah, because I'm not a follower.

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna listen to people that has never done anything in their life and never took no chances or no risks to tell me what I can and what I can't do. So I'm happy in my own skin. I'm happy, you know, whether they chanting my name or whether they not. Long as my family love me and my family there and they good, they well taken care of, then that's the only thing that makes me happy.

• 1:55:02Joe Rogan?

  That's beautiful. I hope young fighters that are inspired by you take that example. I hope, I hope they take that mindset and try to adopt it as their own. I really do. I really do because there's so many young fighters that just can't wait to be that person in the limelight, can't wait to be that person living flashy in front of everybody. And it's a foolish adventure.

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  Temporary.

• 1:55:28Joe Rogan?

  It's temporary.

• 1:55:29Speaker 01

  And they don't understand that. Like, they only chanting your name for a moment, you know? It's, it's, it's very temporary, you know, and they turn on you in a heartbeat. You know, just, just do something crazy or lose a match that you're not supposed to lose or be up against one of your rivals and you lose and then everybody gonna turn their back on you.

• 1:55:52Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  You know, and you're gonna be sitting there lost. Look at Broner. When he was at the top of the top, everybody was there.

• 1:56:00Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:56:00Speaker 01

  He had everybody in this corner. Now he at his lowest, now they making fun of him, now they taking pictures and, you know, I hit him up.

• 1:56:09Joe Rogan?

  He makes fun of himself too, though.

• 1:56:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, he do, but he, he's suffering.

• 1:56:13Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:56:13Speaker 01

  You know, and I hit him up and I try and encourage him and I send him messages and I, you know, and. You gotta be there for people when they at their lowest.

• 1:56:24Joe Rogan?

  That's great. He was a very talented guy, but again, that's what you said, like, he's a guy who really got caught up in it.

• 1:56:30Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. That's a perfect example.

• 1:56:33Joe Rogan?

  What's Gervonta doing now?

• 1:56:35Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:56:35Joe Rogan?

  Is he on the run?

• 1:56:36Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know nothing about that guy.

• 1:56:38Joe Rogan?

  I think he's on the run. At least he was, like, recently. That's unfortunate. He's so fucking talented. He's a, he's such an unusual style, too, you know? Very economical, throws very few punches, but when he does, it's boom.

• 1:56:56Speaker 01

  Explosive?

• 1:56:57Joe Rogan?

  Super, super explosive. I mean, uh, this is a great time for boxing, though. It really is. It's an exciting time for boxing. There's a lot of stars right now, you know?

• 1:57:08Speaker 01

  And they fighting each other.

• 1:57:09Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:57:10Speaker 01

  That's the, that's the most important thing that I could say is

• 1:57:16Speaker 01

  the fights is being made. Whether you on this side or that side, the fights is being made, the promoters is working together within each other. Um, so, no matter.

• 1:57:28Joe Rogan?

  What do you attribute that to? You think that's Riyadh season? Is that the Saudis?

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Of course.

• 1:57:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  Turkey came in, changed up the game. You know, he, he, he, he went to the fighters. You know, hey, I got this, I got this. We want this fight to happen. And the fighters like, whoa. We know we not gonna get this and nothing. Well, nobody would have never seen no Bival Better B If.

• 1:57:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:57:57Speaker 01

  That fight would have never happened. Them promoters not gonna pay that money, you know?

• 1:58:04Speaker 01

  There are so many fights out there that the promoters would have never paid for. Top Rank would have never paid the money that Turkey paid to see Shakur and T.O. fight.

• 1:58:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:17Speaker 01

  You know, so we got so many fights because of him, and we need to be appreciative of him because without him, none of those fights would have happened.

• 1:58:26Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:58:27Speaker 01

  The Canelo fight wouldn't have happened for me. The Majamal fight wouldn't have happened for me. And so, so many more.

• 1:58:36Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely. I think that's very exciting. That, but that's what the sport needed.

• 1:58:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:40Joe Rogan?

  Needed someone to come in with deep pockets. That just said, let's make these fights happen.

• 1:58:46Speaker 01

  And I think that's why, you know, boxing is on a rise right now. People was talking about boxing more. People is more supportive about boxing now. And people is tuning into not only Riyadh season shows, but all shows. Look at Clarissa.

• 1:59:02Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:59:02Speaker 01

  She just put on a hell of a performance.

• 1:59:05Joe Rogan?

  Hell of a performance.

• 1:59:06Speaker 01

  And it was rocking in that.

• 1:59:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was crazy.

• 1:59:09Speaker 01

  Sold out, over sixteen thousand people as a woman.

• 1:59:13Joe Rogan?

  I know, right?

• 1:59:14Speaker 01

  Man, she doing her thing. And people don't give women enough credit. Like, she bringing out stars. You know, and man, it was, it was a good atmosphere in there.

• 1:59:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And it was a very skillful fight.

• 1:59:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:30Joe Rogan?

  She fought a very skill, they came to bang.

• 1:59:32Speaker 01

  I said, I said, y'all came out of there fighting like cats and dogs in that first round. Ooh wee. But you could see it in her face. She wanted the knockout so bad. I was just like, ugh, she's a dog.

• 1:59:43Joe Rogan?

  She's ferocious. Yeah, and so skillful, too.

• 1:59:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:46Joe Rogan?

  You know, but it's, she's a, a unique individual star in a, you know, a, a realm where there's not a lot of women stars. You know, it's like, but I think a person like her can encourage others.

• 2:00:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:01Joe Rogan?

  And it could be more. And when you have one star, a lot of times it does sort of open up the landscape for more.

• 2:00:07Speaker 01

  For sure. For sure, cuz she.

• 2:00:09Joe Rogan?

  She transcends.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:11Joe Rogan?

  She transcends boxing. Like, a lot of people know who Clarissa Shields is. A lot of people know who she is. Outside of boxing. And there's not a lot of other female boxers you could say that about. You know, there's only been a few ever, like Christy Martin.

• 2:00:24Speaker 01

  Le Lali.

• 2:00:25Joe Rogan?

  Le Lali.

• 2:00:26Speaker 01

  And Wolf.

• 2:00:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:27Speaker 01

  And Wolf was good.

• 2:00:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and Wolf. Oof. That was crap. She could, and she was a ferocious trainer, too. Remember she was training Kirkland?

• 2:00:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:00:36Joe Rogan?

  Bro.

• 2:00:37Speaker 01

  With the bag on, on the back of the truck.

• 2:00:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man. She'd make him go through hell. But when she, when he was with her, he was phenomenal.

• 2:00:46Speaker 01

  Wasn't he undefeated with her?

• 2:00:48Joe Rogan?

  I think he was undefeated with her. And she wasn't with him when he fought Canelo, unfortunately.

• 2:00:53Speaker 01

  A couple of fights, I don't think she was winning.

• 2:00:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think it was too much. Like, it was too hard. Like, he didn't want, he didn't want to do it. She's a tough lady, man. She'd put you through some fucking hell. Her training, like, there's some videos of her putting Kirkland through training camp. It's like, my god. And for a woman to be able to do that, you know? It just shows you how impressive she was, how special she was.

• 2:01:17Speaker 01

  But his performances showed as well.

• 2:01:20Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:01:20Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:01:21Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:01:21Speaker 01

  Because she was getting in his mind as well as physical.

• 2:01:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:01:26Speaker 01

  You know, and taking everything from him.

• 2:01:29Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:01:29Speaker 01

  And putting him in a room and not his training. It was kind of like Rocky.

• 2:01:33Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:01:34Speaker 01

  You know? You ain't got no TV. All you do is work, eat, sleep.

• 2:01:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:39Speaker 01

  Shit, boxing.

• 2:01:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:41Speaker 01

  And it's just like, damn.

• 2:01:43Joe Rogan?

  I got into, uh, old, uh, boxing footage real recently. Over the last, like, six months, I've been watching a lot of old camps. And there's some great YouTube channels that are, shows Hagler's camps. And Hagler's camps were phenomenal. It was so good. Like Hagler was rich and he would go to Province Town, this shitty little fucking town on the Cape. No disrespect, Province Town. I'm just saying, and compared to where he could be. I mean, he could be in New York City, he could be anywhere he wanted. But he would go to this small town in the middle of fucking nowhere and run on the beach and live in a room with no TV, no nothing, just eat, sleep, train. He was sparring a hundred rounds a week. I mean, it was wild. Watching him train was incredible. It was incredible.

• 2:02:28Joe Rogan?

  And when he would get into that ring, there was no stone unturned. No stone unturned. And it was just all discipline and drive and focus and... And he was another guy, didn't get his due, didn't get his due until he stopped, really, until he stopped Hearns. That's when people really woke up, you know? All the inside boxing people were very aware, but it took a while. It took a while before the rest of the world caught on.

• 2:02:55Speaker 01

  Because it wasn't flashy?

• 2:02:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it wasn't flashy, just dominate. Just break people's wills. The Mugabe fight to this day is one of my favorite fights of all time. Cause Mugabe was putting people in the hospital.

• 2:03:08Speaker 01

  That was tough.

• 2:03:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, Mugabe hit so fucking hard. But that was the other thing about Hagler, man, had a chin from hell. You know Hagler had extraordinary mandible muscles that like they did a CAT scan on him, like a scan of his head. They said the muscles on the side of his head is like he was born with headgear. Or he developed it just from biting down on a mouthpiece for so long.

• 2:03:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just ah. But I love watching those old school training footage videos. Like there's some great ones of Sugar Ray Robinson running in the mountains and hitting the bag and training and all the calisthenics that he had to do. I think more people should see stuff like that, just to appreciate the amount of discipline and work that it takes to get into peak condition for a fight. Cause I just don't think they understand what your mind has to go through to get up for that every day, over and over and over and over and over. Until you're finally in the ring. Like the ring is almost the easy part.

• 2:04:13Speaker 01

  Easiest. It's tough. It's like, you know, when, when we in Colorado and we gotta run the mountain. Like sometimes I be like, man, I ain't running this mountain, man. Like I don't care, like. And then it be like, you gonna get your ass whooped. You better get your ass up. Or Bo will come in there and be like, let's go. I'm like, man, Bo, let's go. I don't.

• 2:04:40Speaker 01

  Bo got the same. Anytime I'm giving him some push, he be like, I'm not about to argue with you for you to be great. Let's go. I'm like.

• 2:04:49Joe Rogan?

  That's great to have someone with you like that.

• 2:04:51Speaker 01

  Hey, right. I'm like, here we go.

• 2:04:53Joe Rogan?

  He's been with you from the beginning?

• 2:04:54Speaker 01

  From the start.

• 2:04:55Joe Rogan?

  That's so big too.

• 2:04:56Speaker 01

  And it's crazy because the days that I don't wanna do nothing is the craziest days that I do the best. You know, and.

• 2:05:06Joe Rogan?

  Cause you conquered that inner bitch, that thing inside you that wants to not do it.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, Stephen say.

• 2:05:12Joe Rogan?

  I'm the fucking man.

• 2:05:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, Stephen be like, he was like, when you don't wanna do something, it's like. You trying to hurry up and get it over with, so you trying to do it fast. So like my best times is when I don't wanna do it. Like my best sparring is when I don't wanna spar. Cause it's like, I'm like, alright, I'm gonna fuck you up, cause I ain't about to play with you. I ain't about to go in here doing all this extra shit. You know, I don't wanna get hit. You know, so it's like, your best days is when you don't wanna do it.

• 2:05:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:42Speaker 01

  You know, that's when I perform the best in the, in the, in the gym and stuff like that. So, yeah, man, a lot of, a lot of young fighters, when they come and see my training, they see what I go through, three times a day. So it's eat, sleep, shit, work.

• 2:06:01Speaker 01

  You know, they like, man, you train too hard. I'm like, ain't no such thing. You know, Tim Bradley told me, hey, man, you gotta rest, you gotta chill out. Andre Ward, man, you gotta, you gotta rest. You know, and these last two training camps,

• 2:06:21Speaker 01

  I took on their advice and took it just a day off, like in a week. Like every week, instead of training seven days a week, I take one day off just not doing nothing, and it helped me tremendously on my recovery.

• 2:06:36Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:06:36Speaker 01

  Cause I used to just do active rest on Sunday. We'd do the incline. We'd just do the incline, that's it, in the morning, early in the morning, and then we have the whole day to recover. But he like, no, you gotta just take the whole day off, not doing nothing, and just recover. And as you get, as I got older, you know, my last two training camps, I took that advice, and it's just like, man, I'm like, man, I could've did this years ago.

• 2:07:09Speaker 01

  I was just so like locked in, like,

• 2:07:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:07:12Speaker 01

  if I take a day off. They gonna have a day up on me.

• 2:07:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:07:17Speaker 01

  You know, and I was just like, I can't do that. I was working.

• 2:07:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a fine line where there's a point of diminishing returns. Where you put in too much work.

• 2:07:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, seeing a guy fight when he's overtrained is one of the saddest things ever. It's like, his drive actually fucked him.

• 2:07:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:35Joe Rogan?

  I've seen it before. In MMA, it happens all the time. Especially guys that don't use heart rate monitors, don't monitor their resting heart rate when they get up in the morning.

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  I used that my last two.

• 2:07:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 2:07:45Speaker 01

  Two camps.

• 2:07:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, and that was the only two camps you did that?

• 2:07:48Speaker 01

  My last two camps.

• 2:07:49Joe Rogan?

  Wow, interesting, interesting.

• 2:07:51Speaker 01

  So like, everything was

• 2:07:54Speaker 01

  visual with my coaches, because they been with me so long.

• 2:07:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:07:59Speaker 01

  So they know when to pull back.

• 2:08:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:01Speaker 01

  Like, some days, they'll be like, alright, you know.

• 2:08:04Joe Rogan?

  You're peaking.

• 2:08:04Speaker 01

  You did four rounds? Nah, we done. Like, man, I got eight rounds today. Ah, you good. But like, what? You good. Don't worry about it. We'll come back tomorrow. You know, and I'd be like, alright. You know, I would never question them.

• 2:08:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:19Speaker 01

  You know, or we come in there and they'd be like, alright, today, we just gonna, we gonna shadow box and we gonna hit the mitts. But I never questioned them, but they already knew.

• 2:08:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:27Speaker 01

  By watching me, you know, along the weeks, to pull me back, when to pull me back. And then it started getting, you know, to me, and I'm like, oh, okay, so now I know what they, like, they not gonna let me overtrain. Because they know I'm gonna give it my all every time I train, anything I do. So they just pull me back. Like, alright, well, we gonna just do yoga today, and we gonna do boxing work. We ain't gonna do no, you know, strength and condition, or we not gonna do no row work. Or we not gonna, or we just gonna swim, we not, instead of running, we gonna swim. You know, so, some days, they flip flop.

• 2:09:03Joe Rogan?

  That's the beauty of having a really good trainer.

• 2:09:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:09:06Joe Rogan?

  And someone is really paying attention to you.

• 2:09:09Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:09:09Joe Rogan?

  And real, and knows you. Like, knows the signs, knows when you're a little sluggish, knows when you're peaking a little early.

• 2:09:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:17Speaker 01

  Pull you back, yeah.

• 2:09:18Joe Rogan?

  And anybody say that you trained too hard, that's like... Compared to who? Compared to who? You know, like, uh, it's whether or not you've built your body up to the point where you're doing that for so many years that your body's conditioned to go that hard. You know, because there's people that used to say that if you run a marathon, like, you need like six months off. I had a friend, it was my friend Cameron Haynes, he runs ultra marathons. When he was training for a two hundred and fifty mile run, he was running a marathon every day.

• 2:09:44Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:09:45Joe Rogan?

  Every day. Most people, the conventional wisdom was you can't do that. Yeah, you can.

• 2:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:51Joe Rogan?

  You've just gotta get up to that. So if a fighter is slacking off in between camps and getting fat and drinking and fucking off, and then they get back in the camp, yeah, you can't do three hard a day like that.

• 2:10:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:03Joe Rogan?

  But if you're already in shape and you're already conditioned and you have built up this base of years and years of doing this, your conditioning will be so much better. One of the things that I notice in young fighters in particular, especially in MMA, is how tired they get in a three round fight. Just a three round MMA fight, how tired they get. And I'm sure they train hard, but they don't train as hard as these guys who don't get tired in a five round fight. So what is the difference? Well, it's the years and years of building up that cardio base, not fucking up your body, not partying.

• 2:10:38Speaker 01

  Knowing how to breathe.

• 2:10:39Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:10:39Speaker 01

  That's the most important.

• 2:10:40Joe Rogan?

  Efficient, yeah.

• 2:10:42Speaker 01

  Cause when I, my first time at the UFC, when I did strength and conditioning, you know, I was like, man, this, I'm not getting nothing out of it, it's easy. And they was like, well, it's not meant to break you or kill you, you, you gonna, you gonna see the difference? And I'm just like, man, when I'm, when I'm doing UFC back, back at home, like, I'm sore, like, I'm not sore, you know, the next day when I'm doing strength and conditioning here. But like gradually, you start seeing the results.

• 2:11:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:11:20Speaker 01

  You know, and it's like, damn, you know, and it's a science behind it.

• 2:11:24Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:11:25Speaker 01

  You know, and I was just like, in my mind, I'm like, man, I'm not working hard enough because I'm, I'm used to working hard and I'm going home and I'm like, oh, that was a good workout, I feel it, like. Psychologically, I'm like, I don't feel like I did nothing, you know, because my body isn't so in shape. You know, I'm like, man, I need to do more. They're like, mm, you're good. You did a lot today. You know, I'm like, alright, so like gradually, I'm starting to see the effects.

• 2:11:55Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:11:56Speaker 01

  You know, I'm like, oh, okay. So maybe he was working me out too, too hard. You know, and I'm, I'm getting stronger and everything. I'm just like, okay. You know, it's all, it's all a science.

• 2:12:07Joe Rogan?

  It really is a science. And, you know, the problem with fighters is, especially elite fighters, is they're so driven. You know, and sometimes you can't let the dragon off the chain. You gotta like, slow down.

• 2:12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, slow down.

• 2:12:21Joe Rogan?

  We gotta do this, we gotta progress.

• 2:12:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:12:23Joe Rogan?

  Progress over time. And get to that perfect point, the week before the fight, where you just settle in and then fight time.

• 2:12:32Speaker 01

  That's my guy Gavin. Gavin just like, oh, don't worry, we stepped.

• 2:12:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the beautiful thing about having someone that you can trust, that really knows what they're doing.

• 2:12:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:42Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, there's a lot of young fighters that are just all gas, no brakes. And they might be costing themselves a little bit. But then there's a lot of lazy fighters, like, yeah, I don't want to overtrain.

• 2:12:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:51Joe Rogan?

  Like, no, no, no, you're undertraining. That's why you get tired all the time. You're not in good enough shape to be doing the proper workout that you need to do to really prepare for a fight.

• 2:13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:01Joe Rogan?

  It's just this fucking dance, man. It takes forever to, to learn. It takes forever. You know, that's why, like, a lot of fighters, they reach their prime when they get into their thirties. Because they get it all dialed in. They know what they need, they know what they need to do. They know what a camp really feels like. They prepare for it.

• 2:13:21Speaker 01

  Benner, the experience.

• 2:13:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:24Speaker 01

  You know, so, yeah, they definitely know their body. They know when they in shape, when they out of shape, what they need, when they need a little more. Experience is the best teacher, I would say.

• 2:13:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, experience and then listening to people like you, that's a big factor. Listening to people that have done it all and, you know, and that wisdom, the just, the things that you've said on this podcast today. I guarantee you right now, there are hundreds of thousands of fucking future fighters that are listening to this right now. And that are probably like taking it all in. Okay, cuz you know, in the early days, you don't know what the fuck to do. You don't know what, what's, what's, what's the right approach? Is his approach, is his approach? Like, what's the right mentality? What's the right mindset? What's, who are the right coaches? Which is a big factor. You get a bad coach and get stuck with a bad coach and it'll limit your development.

• 2:14:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure, for sure. And that, that goes back to styles. When I said, I was trying to coach everybody to the same style and everybody ain't meant to be trained the same. Everybody don't have the same, you know, mental capacity to process things the same way. Some people process things different. That's kinda like yelling at a fighter. You know, that, that motivated me. Sometimes that break fighters, they like, huh huh, I'm getting yelled at, I'm doing something wrong. And, you know, so, um, we look at them like, man, toughen up, you know, but nowadays it's different.

• 2:15:01Speaker 01

  Like, everything don't flock the same with one fighter like it do the same.

• 2:15:08Joe Rogan?

  No, you gotta figure out what, what gets your fighter going.

• 2:15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and that's, uh, that's another interesting dance. I don't envy those people cuz your livelihood depends upon another person performing, which is kinda crazy. It's a crazy way to live your life.

• 2:15:25Speaker 01

  That's any sports.

• 2:15:26Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:15:27Speaker 01

  Like, I always say, sometimes I blame the coaches, but for the most part, the players and the fighters and the athletes, they gotta go out there and perform. I could tell you go out there and do this, but if you don't go do it, then that's on you.

• 2:15:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:15:43Speaker 01

  Now, coaches, they can make, I mean, they can get out coached. They can call the wrong plays at the wrong times, different like that, but all in all, if he go out there and miss a tackle, if he go out there and not catch the ball, why am I getting fired?

• 2:16:00Speaker 01

  They gonna blame me.

• 2:16:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 2:16:02Speaker 01

  Hey, I can't make him hit the three. I can't make him, you know, D up. So I'm getting fired because they not performing.

• 2:16:11Joe Rogan?

  You're also getting fired by people that don't totally understand all the subtle nuances of what you do if you're a coach.

• 2:16:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:20Joe Rogan?

  Like, if they're not a coach, how could you really understand? If you're not day in, day out with these athletes, in their head, working with them, seeing what they're doing, improving upon their strengths, strengthening their weaknesses, if you're not doing that, you just are seeing results.

• 2:16:34Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:16:35Joe Rogan?

  That's all you see. You're judging based on results. And you don't really know who's a good coach and who's not. Because if you're a good coach, you got shit athletes.

• 2:16:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:44Joe Rogan?

  You can only go so far.

• 2:16:46Speaker 01

  That's it. And it's tough.

• 2:16:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:48Speaker 01

  It's tough to, you know, go across the middle and try to catch a bullet without, when you know the safety about to come in later, the crazy slap on you.

• 2:16:58Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:16:58Speaker 01

  You know, and it's crazy to go up, you know, on a seven footer trying to shoot a three. Like, it's hard at a professional level to do what these athletes is doing, but they making it seem like it's easy.

• 2:17:14Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:17:14Speaker 01

  On the outside for us, and we like, "Man, you didn't catch the ball." It's like, man, you try to catch that ball with three people, you know what I mean, on you, you know, coming full speed, and you gotta worry about getting your feet inbounds and things like that, it's so much.

• 2:17:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like T F M O's corner during the Shakur fight. You gotta hit him. You gotta hit him. Like, what do you think I'm trying to do?

• 2:17:36Speaker 01

  Tell me how to hit him. Tell me how to set up to him. Don't just tell me, "You gotta hit him."

• 2:17:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:43Speaker 01

  And that goes into saying that everybody shouldn't be a coach.

• 2:17:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:17:49Speaker 01

  You know, because now you're not giving me no instructions. You, you going off of emotions.

• 2:17:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:17:55Speaker 01

  And you just telling me, "Hey, you gotta hit him. You, you not hitting him. What are you doing?"

• 2:18:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:01Speaker 01

  Now, what if T.O. would've said, "What is you doing? Cause you're not telling me nothing."

• 2:18:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:18:05Speaker 01

  You see me trying to hit him, but he moving. You know, like, what I, what I supposed to do? I'm swinging and I'm, I'm missing.

• 2:18:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:18:13Speaker 01

  So tell me how to set it up to him.

• 2:18:15Joe Rogan?

  But there's really nothing anybody could've told him.

• 2:18:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:19Joe Rogan?

  The gap was just too wide at that point.

• 2:18:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:18:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. They, they should've studied more in training. But even then, it's like, the problem is years. It's years of advancement. It's years of intelligent boxing. It's years of setups. It's years of skills.

• 2:18:37Speaker 01

  I think when a fighter have a good coach, that's knowledgeable, and they believe in their coach, and their coach asks them to do something, and they believe that that's gonna work, they'll try it. You know, if your coach tell you, "All right, listen. He stepping back every time you step in. So that means for every time he step back, you gotta step in twice and double, double the jab and close the distance and let your hands go when you get in range." And that fighter go out there and do what the coach asked him to do, and he's successful, then that's a different ballgame.

• 2:19:15Joe Rogan?

  That's a different ballgame.

• 2:19:16Speaker 01

  Because now you listening to your coach, but your coach is seeing what the other fighters doing that's making him be more successful.

• 2:19:23Joe Rogan?

  Technical instruction.

• 2:19:24Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 2:19:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:25Speaker 01

  You can't just go, "Go out there and hit him."

• 2:19:27Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:19:28Speaker 01

  Tell me how to do it.

• 2:19:29Joe Rogan?

  I hear that shit in the corner. I'm like, "Good lord, what are you saying?"

• 2:19:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:34Joe Rogan?

  You hear it in MMA all the time. "You gotta put it on him. Oh, oh, I didn't know. Oh, I gotta put it on him." All this time, I was hoping it would just happen.

• 2:19:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, listen, man, congratulations on everything. You had a fantastic, spectacular, like, one of a generation career. So it's beautiful to watch. And as a fan, I'm honored that you came in here. And I think what you've done is just fucking incredible. So congratulations on everything. And enjoy it. Enjoy all the rest of your life. Cause you earned it all. Thank you very much. All right. Bye, everybody.

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